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Author Topic: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp Alpha related. ALPHA FINISHED. Go to Beta page  (Read 93771 times)

than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #840 on: December 19, 2014, 12:44:53 pm »

nice. i have some more bugs on the grown weapons to fix, then i've got to sort the whole pulp and construct system out, and i'll upload a new file probably today.
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Vitellozzo

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #841 on: December 19, 2014, 04:04:37 pm »

Ok waiting for it for the new fort.
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than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #842 on: December 19, 2014, 04:09:01 pm »

you won't have to wait very much, i'm almost done :)
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Vitellozzo

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #843 on: December 19, 2014, 04:57:06 pm »

By the way we wait for the patch, I want to ask you something: the whole hive you're working at is this Hivemind kind of civilization like the one in the image (the one of the Cavern civilizations) or is a spin off race?

I don't hide that if this could be the whole evolution of the cavern civilization Hivemind it could be much thrilling to follow the project (I love insectoids but still!). That because this mod seems to be the very essence of "hivemind": fearsome insect-like people living and using biorganic weapons and enslaved creatures as "pets".
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Meph

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #844 on: December 19, 2014, 05:07:34 pm »

The "Hivemind" in the picture are currently Antmen. An insect race was among the suggestions, but I made the humans in the end. Since then Eko did some work on a water-based race (and disappeared -.-) and I'm reluctant to start an insect civ, since I dont want to overrule this "Hive" project, which uses wasps.

My insect race idea is still floating around, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138577.msg5279089#msg5279089
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than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #845 on: December 19, 2014, 05:15:28 pm »

ninja'd :)  i don't know if Insanegame27 (who thought of the project) was thinking about a new race or an evolution of the antmen. as far as i'm concerned, antmen are to this race what animal men and troglodytes are to humans and elves: savage cousins. also note that they're actually aligned with the Savage faction, so there's that too

and the patch is up! i fixed and tweaked many things, but i couldn't fix the crash, so i though an cheap ingenious solution: make them drop the meat piece as an ITEMCORPSE. it seems to be working
also, if a bunch of larvae all bite one person, the larvae will die anyway due to a token, so i didn't give this one much though either (for now, at least)

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9734
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 05:21:05 pm by than402 »
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Vitellozzo

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #846 on: December 20, 2014, 04:59:12 am »

The "Hivemind" in the picture are currently Antmen. An insect race was among the suggestions, but I made the humans in the end. Since then Eko did some work on a water-based race (and disappeared -.-) and I'm reluctant to start an insect civ, since I dont want to overrule this "Hive" project, which uses wasps.

My insect race idea is still floating around, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138577.msg5279089#msg5279089
Yep, I read into the naga thread the disappearence of Eko. We must just wait a little bit and hope that he will return, even for just presenting his already done work. The water reptilian race attract me too. Let's just hope he's doing xmas activities and that's the reason of this disappearance. After that, even if you stopped working on a project, if this project recall someone else, you could leave your work to him.
But after that I'm sure he will return, this is just a bad moment of the year to focus on computer stuff.

Anyway, it's a little shame that this work will not be the official one, but in your post I can see the differences and I like both ideas, both having biotechnology in different manners. Maybe this wasp race could be made one of the "on-their-own" races, since I can see them being very powerful (if even workers have 4 arms, that means lot of ranged weapons, and soldiers could be very nasty with 2H weapon+shield+weapon+sting).
:edit: There is something else I've realized. Biologically speaking, ants are basically very evolved wasps, which lose wings for pratical needs, being in very narrow tunnels they began to dig in the ancient times, when there wasn't a distinction between wasps and ants as we know now (some kind of wasps tend to live in tunnels they dig, not in hives, even nowadays). The ants even have a single needle to sting, as wasps, and they even have their own poison (and Fire Ants even iniect their toxins with their jaws).
And since our wasps don't have wings, they're basically like antmen. Those even have a Soldier cast above Worker one, and that is a ant-specific evolution, no wasp have not-fighting workers.
Just saying.
This feature is what I like most, and I was going to suggest it anyway in this thread.
Quote
Larvae can be butchered to produce "biomass", your main building material.

ninja'd :)  i don't know if Insanegame27 (who thought of the project) was thinking about a new race or an evolution of the antmen. as far as i'm concerned, antmen are to this race what animal men and troglodytes are to humans and elves: savage cousins. also note that they're actually aligned with the Savage faction, so there's that too

and the patch is up! i fixed and tweaked many things, but i couldn't fix the crash, so i though an cheap ingenious solution: make them drop the meat piece as an ITEMCORPSE. it seems to be working
also, if a bunch of larvae all bite one person, the larvae will die anyway due to a token, so i didn't give this one much though either (for now, at least)

http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=9734

I'm going to try this fix, but as I told before I didn't understand what's going on. But less crashes=the better!

PS:
Now to the more normal stuff: Clothing would mostly be chitin, as would be the armor. That should simulate exoskeleton upgrades. I am not sure how to avoid that they wear armor from invaders, but we'll see
That is something that we should keep in mind. To reply to Meph, without necroing that post (even if I'd like to resurrect insect thread), antmen could be sized to be more than more humanoids, and less than big ones (like orcs and giants). I don't know if this is possible or even if it could be a workaround, but being of a different size from anyone else could lead to drop from invaders only "small..." or "large..." pieces of equipment.

But anyway, I'd like to get rid of cloth even from this wasp mod: they could use chitin and something else like wax or cement to just cover their bodyparts (even if insects, in general, and Hymenoptera as ants and wasps tend to have reproductive organs inside their chitin exoskeletons... so no shame since no organ show! that could lend them to just not use cloth entirely).

:edit:
Ok, now for some instinctive feedback.
Running a new fortress and choosing what to bring on embark, I've realized that it feels so wrong to take picks and battle axes to dig and cut trees. I don't say that our wasps don't have to dig or cut trees, but they should have a brand new tool to use for those jobs.
Something like metal claws they use (like the one they already have for militia) that could be multigrasped, so no one-handed cutting tree claw, even better if you manage to make them use all of their 4 arms to equip those claw sets. Basically, they dig with shovel-like claws (that ipotetically should increment their natural digging skill) and they cut trees making many violent cuts with another kind of serrated claws. They could be also used as weapons with special rend-like abilities, since they have 4 arms equipped with those metal instruments.
Again, just saying.
:re-edit:
Also, I've voted for a forced queen at the start of the game since if there is a Hivemind, there must be someone actracting same species entities: the queen in bee and wasps hives don't rule over others, she emict a substance from all of her body that keeps workers quiet, in a unfertile status, so they can think only to work in the hive. She is the only one that can, and must, lay eggs to reproduce her workers. Too many egg-laying false queens could make disasters in DNA reproduction and they will lead "civil wars" between them, sharing the same territory.
That's one of the secrets behind a Hivemind.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 07:14:34 am by Vitellozzo »
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than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #847 on: December 20, 2014, 09:12:17 am »

This feature is what I like most, and I was going to suggest it anyway in this thread.
Quote
Larvae can be butchered to produce "biomass", your main building material.

it's already implemented in a way. it's just than when you butcher a wasp you don't get building material, but you get meat, a soul and a brain essence.

PS:
Now to the more normal stuff: Clothing would mostly be chitin, as would be the armor. That should simulate exoskeleton upgrades. I am not sure how to avoid that they wear armor from invaders, but we'll see
That is something that we should keep in mind. To reply to Meph, without necroing that post (even if I'd like to resurrect insect thread), antmen could be sized to be more than more humanoids, and less than big ones (like orcs and giants). I don't know if this is possible or even if it could be a workaround, but being of a different size from anyone else could lead to drop from invaders only "small..." or "large..." pieces of equipment.

But anyway, I'd like to get rid of cloth even from this wasp mod: they could use chitin and something else like wax or cement to just cover their bodyparts (even if insects, in general, and Hymenoptera as ants and wasps tend to have reproductive organs inside their chitin exoskeletons... so no shame since no organ show! that could lend them to just not use cloth entirely).

i suppose if we removed the clothesmaking profession they would only use leather, scales and chitin (which i believe counts as leather in masterwork) for their clothes. what do you guys say?

:edit:
Ok, now for some instinctive feedback.
Running a new fortress and choosing what to bring on embark, I've realized that it feels so wrong to take picks and battle axes to dig and cut trees. I don't say that our wasps don't have to dig or cut trees, but they should have a brand new tool to use for those jobs.
Something like metal claws they use (like the one they already have for militia) that could be multigrasped, so no one-handed cutting tree claw, even better if you manage to make them use all of their 4 arms to equip those claw sets. Basically, they dig with shovel-like claws (that ipotetically should increment their natural digging skill) and they cut trees making many violent cuts with another kind of serrated claws. They could be also used as weapons with special rend-like abilities, since they have 4 arms equipped with those metal instruments.
Again, just saying.

sure, it's doable, i believe. we already have talons and fists as weapons anyway. maybe now we can find an actual usage for them.

:re-edit:
Also, I've voted for a forced queen at the start of the game since if there is a Hivemind, there must be someone actracting same species entities: the queen in bee and wasps hives don't rule over others, she emict a substance from all of her body that keeps workers quiet, in a unfertile status, so they can think only to work in the hive. She is the only one that can, and must, lay eggs to reproduce her workers. Too many egg-laying false queens could make disasters in DNA reproduction and they will lead "civil wars" between them, sharing the same territory.
That's one of the secrets behind a Hivemind.

the wasps are sentient, however. which means that while a queen is important for a hive, each wasp has its own personality, preferences and individuality. we had a system where if a wasp was away from a queen for 2 years it would go insane, but i removed it in the previous update because it was a) buggy b) a possible source of these skirmishes between migrants and their pets at the edge of the map.

two queens will fight if they encounter each other, we've implemented it too. the possibility for a cascade was removed, however, since the frequency of the queens has been raised, and therefore it's perfectly plausible to have a queen arriving as a migrant (or even to have one at the starting 7) and suffer a cascade through no fault of the player.

also, apparently the forced queen was buggy (according to heydude6), so we just put a free reaction to gain a queen shortly after embarking. the queen is still important, though: wasps are short lived and the various castes are overspecialized so in the late game you will need to cull some of your unneeded wasps and replace them with new ones.


on another note, what would you guys say about giving them the ability to build stuff out of meat and leather and blocks out of bones? i was also thinking about giving them the ability to make gem infused cement, but i'm still not sure how practical it would be. what's your opinion on these things?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 09:33:16 am by than402 »
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Meph

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #848 on: December 20, 2014, 09:31:21 am »

You can leave out clothes completely, if you use Boltguns script that deletes bad thoughts from being naked. He uses that for the succubi if I'm not wrong.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 148 countries visited :::

than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #849 on: December 20, 2014, 09:32:50 am »

You can leave out clothes completely, if you use Boltguns script that deletes bad thoughts from being naked. He uses that for the succubi if I'm not wrong.

i didn't knew such a script existed. which one is it?
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Meph

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #850 on: December 20, 2014, 09:37:54 am »

I dont know, ask Boltgun.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
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Boltgun

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #851 on: December 20, 2014, 10:34:11 am »

fixnakedregular.lua in the main script folder, if you edit the init.lua you can set it to activate the script on loading the save.

In the line "return entity.entity_raw.code == 'DECADENCE'", you can add "or  entity.entity_raw.code == 'MY_CIV'". And perhaps changing the name of the isFooccubus function.
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than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #852 on: December 20, 2014, 10:39:02 am »

thanks a lot, Boltgun :)
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heydude6

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #853 on: December 20, 2014, 12:26:25 pm »

There's a lot of stuff to shift through so I'm not going to quote but a few questions.

1. if we are going to remove the clothes-making profession what should the clothesmaking skill be used for? Also what sprite should I draw for tailors?

2. About building things out of meat and leather, i say no. We already have paper cement and I don't think we need what is essentially more paper cement but with different materials

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than402

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Re: ☼Hive☼ Everything Hivewasp related
« Reply #854 on: December 20, 2014, 12:32:35 pm »

1. i don't know, that's what we should decide: naked wasps, as is, or simply wasps don't use cloth?
2. ok, what about gem cement?
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