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Author Topic: Starbound - Caveat emptor  (Read 441052 times)

JumpingJack

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #915 on: March 15, 2016, 09:43:54 pm »

TBH I'm just disappointed that they never integrated player-built ships as an alternative to the shitty, poorly laid-out default ones. Some of the best fun I had in Starbound was building my asteroid treeship.

Too true. I suppose the pufferfish crew relies on the modding community for those kinds of things, though.  ::)

I myself have built a few subpar and incredibly laggy ships in my time. It certainly helped break up the monotony.
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Glloyd

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #916 on: March 15, 2016, 11:08:36 pm »

TBH I'm just disappointed that they never integrated player-built ships as an alternative to the shitty, poorly laid-out default ones. Some of the best fun I had in Starbound was building my asteroid treeship.

Yeah, that was the greatest mod. I thought they had incorporated that, but I also haven't played starbound in two years so that doesn't mean much.

Darkmere

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #917 on: March 16, 2016, 01:58:15 am »

TBH I'm just disappointed that they never integrated player-built ships as an alternative to the shitty, poorly laid-out default ones. Some of the best fun I had in Starbound was building my asteroid treeship.

Yeah, that was the greatest mod. I thought they had incorporated that, but I also haven't played starbound in two years so that doesn't mean much.

In testing, once, they added a brief bit where you could add on to the default ships with the in-game building tiles (i.e. the shittiest possible implementation), said it sucked, then broke the custom ships mod. But I haven't bothered keeping up with what's happened since, so I don't know how it is now.
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Sirus

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #918 on: March 16, 2016, 09:45:11 pm »

TBH I'm just disappointed that they never integrated player-built ships as an alternative to the shitty, poorly laid-out default ones. Some of the best fun I had in Starbound was building my asteroid treeship.
This is sadly all too true.

Maybe I'll fire up Starbound again, one day, and cruise the forums looking for such a mod.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #919 on: March 17, 2016, 01:16:42 am »

Wouldn't player-made ships defeat the whole purpose of ship upgrades? And how would they be balanced in regards to any future ship-to-ship combat?
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Arbinire

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #920 on: March 17, 2016, 03:37:33 am »

Wouldn't player-made ships defeat the whole purpose of ship upgrades? And how would they be balanced in regards to any future ship-to-ship combat?

It'd defeat the purpose of ship upgrades about as much as static dungeons defeats the purpose of a destructable/constructable world...or having swords, metal shields, and medieval armor defeats the purpose of a sci-fi space game...or having linear questing paths and progression defeats the purpose of a sandbox open world game...or how removing temperature and hunger requirements defeats the purpose of the game being based on your character being a survivor of some sort of space attack.

Pretty much this game is about defeating the purpose.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #921 on: March 17, 2016, 03:59:24 am »

The dungeons are selectively destructible because it's impossible to make a challenge without taking away the player's god-powers over the world. Pretty much every (two-handed) weapon now has special powers, and you have an entire species of sentient robots stuck in Medieval Stasis thanks to a programming glitch, nevermind another race which is so dismissive of progress that it tends to forget its scientific advances in favor of a cowboy-esque lifestyle. Quests are no longer tied to progression, exploration is no longer held back by equipment. Hunger is back, temperature is being worked on (and is "back" in the sense that hot and cold planets incur debuffs unless you can counter them). And the space attack in question is what ends up giving you your god-powers over the world (it's implied the Matter Manipulator is a fairly unique item), at least as far as I understood the hints towards the storyline.

Basically, you're basing your dislike of the game, on a game that no longer exists.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 04:01:09 am by Sean Mirrsen »
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Flying Dice

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #922 on: March 17, 2016, 02:27:50 pm »

Wouldn't player-made ships defeat the whole purpose of ship upgrades? And how would they be balanced in regards to any future ship-to-ship combat?
Have each upgrade increase the space available to build in. Bam, problem solved.

Not sure what you mean by balance. Ships upgraded to different levels would obviously be unbalanced anyways. Optimizing your ship for anti-AI combat seems like an eminently reasonable feature. If you're talking about PvP balance... why? Isn't that the point of PvP, for people to leverage their skills and knowledge against their opponents? Construction is a core mechanic of games like Starbound, and limiting that is akin to limiting players in an FPS to an extremely low level of mouse sensitivity because some people don't react as quickly or as accurately as others.
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Neonivek

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #923 on: March 17, 2016, 06:50:25 pm »

Future ship to ship combat?

Those were the other developers. Remember we are CLOSE to version 1.0 Anything that isn't being worked on right now isn't making the cut.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #924 on: March 17, 2016, 07:32:08 pm »

Pretty sure they've stated numerous times that ship combat is a "maybe after release" thing for a while.
So really, it's probably not happening.
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Greenbane

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #925 on: March 18, 2016, 08:21:34 am »

I'm not sure how ship-to-ship space combat would work. For many players, the ship is their sanctum, their base. It's the place where they stash everything and do their crafting.

What'd be the point of space combat? To wipe out that critical base? To what end? With ship upgrades they further discouraged building on planets, and it'd be contradictory to have said upgrade system in place when your ship can get blown up.

So what's the alternative? Make vessels indestructible so that you only lose pixels or X renewable resource when you lose space battles? How would that be interesting?

If they had respected spaceships and space travel, and kept their purpose focused as opposed to making them largely static space houses while most of the travel takes place via teleporters, then space combat would make more sense.

They really need to double-down on existing features instead of adding pointless mechanics with tenuous connection to the rest of the game (i.e. Pokemon). But well, that's the modus operandi.
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Sean Mirrsen

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #926 on: March 18, 2016, 09:36:35 am »

I'm not sure you noticed that you've basically answered your own questions there. "With ship upgrades they've discouraged building on planets, and it'd be contradictory to have said upgrade system in place when your ship can get blown up."

They intend to re-encourage building on planets, with farming, colonization, and who knows what else. To that end, ship combat could serve to make the ship less of a mobile home - upgrades would allow it to be better protected, to house more crew, more systems, more weapons. You would only be able to keep a whole town inside your ship if you never took it anywhere potentially dangerous, if you gave up on exploring.

FTL was mentioned way back when as a possible inspiration for ship combat, and I hope you remember that FTL's ship-to-ship combat, and indeed the whole ship structure, is basically room-based. Every room is a potential target point, every room can house one system. What do ship upgrades in Starbound do? Give your ship more rooms. More space for valid rooms, and bigger rooms. I'm not saying that it will happen this way, because really I can't know, none of us can, but I do maintain that it's a possibility - that ship upgrades could be setting up something like this, where you'd have to have valid enclosed (with airtight doors!) rooms like you currently have colonist housing, except you'd do this in order to put particular "furniture" there - weapons control, shields control, anything you might want to have crew manning or interacting with, each with particular requirements for size or shape.

Thinking in those terms, allowing players to just set up their ship willy-nilly opens too much of a balancing problem because there are bound to be all kinds of ways you could confuse or trick the AI - not to mention that lacking Terraria's block variations, most player-created ships are just going to be bland to look at compared to mostly hand-drawn designs.

I'd be mostly fine, by the way, if there was a special ship builder you could use. Like, "here's a something-by-something background object, you have to place it and fully enclose it to have it count as a room", limiting the player's freedom in regards to how many discrete chunks the ship can be split into, and the size and shape of those chunks. Like when you remove the default backwall paneling in the ship you can see the windows and some kind of machinery behind it - that's what I mean. So that you can't just backwall a section of empty space and call it a room.

Final thought: Currently you are never sold a "ship upgrade". You are merely sold a license. Seeing as you can never die in the game, it would entirely make sense if you could never lose your ship either - you just have it rebuilt thanks to having a license (and S.A.I.L. backups), with some hefty fee, and whatever mechanic is chosen to determine how much of the stuff you had there is preserved. Maybe your furniture and decorations are recreated but any container contents are lost, that sort of thing, unless you go back to where you were destroyed and pick through your last ship's debris for anything salvageable.
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MagmaMcFry

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #927 on: April 03, 2016, 12:00:56 pm »

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NullForceOmega

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #928 on: April 03, 2016, 12:18:23 pm »

... Not sure what to make of that.  Sounds like, "We gutted the game again, totally redesigned everything, broke the hell out of your existing and past saves forever, but at least it has a shiny '1' on it."
Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Why did they change the story again?
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BigD145

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Re: Starbound - Caveat emptor
« Reply #929 on: April 03, 2016, 12:24:15 pm »

"We're done here"

The "story" is 8 dungeons. Blech. Not even trying there.

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we’ll continue to look into the feasibility of entirely custom built ships.

Which existed way back towards the early releases, but fuck all that. They can't be arsed to do a few tiny lines of code.

At least mods will be a thing through Steam.
« Last Edit: April 03, 2016, 12:26:00 pm by BigD145 »
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