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I am religious and believe in free will

70 (27.6%)

I am religious and do not believe in free will

10 (3.9%)

I am not religious and believe in free will

113 (44.5%)

I am not religious and do not believe in free will

61 (24%)

Total Members Voted: 249

[MaximumZero]

Even here on earth, worshiping God is satisfying. Why do you think people want to go to church in the first place? It becomes a lot easier once you realize how much God loves you. He deserves all we can give him.

I always assumed that the popularity of church was partly due to the "like-minded community" aspect. What does church provide that prayer alone doesn't otherwise?

I kind of wish there was a secular equivalent to church. I like beer-league softball and barbecue, too, you know.

[Graknorke]

5 “And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love xto stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. yTruly, I say to you, they have received their reward. 6 But when you pray, zgo into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. aAnd your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

u wot m8
Anyone know how the Church (Catholic, CoE, whatever) reconciles that with all the time they spend organising big services?

[TD1]

IMO the most Biblical interpretation of Heaven (although there's very little said to describe it) is that it'll be exactly like Earth, but everyone will be nice and get along and go to church on Sundays. We'll have work to do, but it will be enjoyable and satisfying. We'll have friends, and holidays, and all the other nice stuff that happens on Earth.
Basically, like Eden before the fall. Adam had a job - looking after the garden - and although he spoke with God, he didn't spend all his time in perpetual prayer. Because that would be boring. We're still human, and humans like to have variation in their lives.

That's not so bad, then. I'd be interested in where in the Bible that is?

[Helgoland]

IMO the most Biblical interpretation of Heaven (although there's very little said to describe it) is that it'll be exactly like Earth, but everyone will be nice and get along and go to church on Sundays. We'll have work to do, but it will be enjoyable and satisfying. We'll have friends, and holidays, and all the other nice stuff that happens on Earth.
Basically, like Eden before the fall. Adam had a job - looking after the garden - and although he spoke with God, he didn't spend all his time in perpetual prayer. Because that would be boring. We're still human, and humans like to have variation in their lives.

Isn't there an idea in Judaism that day-to-day life and work are prayer/religious service too? I think I remember hearing something like that once...

[Orange Wizard]

That's not so bad, then. I'd be interested in where in the Bible that is?

It's not really in the Bible per se, but there are a few passages in the NT (references escape me) that basically say Heaven is Earth, but perfect (in the Biblical sense of being without sin). There's an article in the Belgic Confession (or Heidelberg, I can never remember which one's which) on the topic that I can dig out later if you like.

There is some Biblical precedent for origami's stance of endless prayer and all that, but it's mostly psalms along the lines of "and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever, and praise your name day and night", that sort of thing. Personally I think that's more of a poetic description of gratefulness than literally singing/praying to God 24/7.

Obviously everything regarding the exact nature of Heaven is speculative, but I think there's enough to go on that it won't be that different from life on Earth.

...

Isn't there an idea in Judaism that day-to-day life and work are prayer/religious service too? I think I remember hearing something like that once...

Yeah, pretty sure that's a thing. AFAIK the concept sort of carries over to the NT, but it's kinda vague.

[Frumple]

Isn't there an idea in Judaism that day-to-day life and work are prayer/religious service too? I think I remember hearing something like that once...

Can't speak for judaism, but it's definitely a thing with christianity. That's pretty much the entire basis of the whole "Walk with Christ" ethos -- you pray (express your faith, connect with god, etc.) by action and living, not by word and blandishment. Vocal prayers are what amounts to empty, church services of little meaning. You pray by expressing yourself as christ would, through charity and good work at all times, and in doing so god walks with you.

See it in the wild every once in a while, and from what I've noticed the concept is at least given a nod in a lot of christian religious practice, but it's fairly rare a congregation actually gives it much attention or investment (which is somewhat understandable, considering the extent the belief downplays traditional church structure -- sunday mass or service or whathaveyou is, broadly speaking, an obstacle to that kind of belief).

[Helgoland]

Ora et labora seems like a related concept: You're not a proper monk unless you work as well as pray.

[Rolan7]

IMO the most Biblical interpretation of Heaven (although there's very little said to describe it) is that it'll be exactly like Earth, but everyone will be nice and get along and go to church on Sundays. We'll have work to do, but it will be enjoyable and satisfying. We'll have friends, and holidays, and all the other nice stuff that happens on Earth.
Basically, like Eden before the fall. Adam had a job - looking after the garden - and although he spoke with God, he didn't spend all his time in perpetual prayer. Because that would be boring. We're still human, and humans like to have variation in their lives.

That does sound nice. Satisfying work is satisfying
Being able to read all the things and peruse history and space as an observer would help too

[origamiscienceguy]

That's not so bad, then. I'd be interested in where in the Bible that is?

It's not really in the Bible per se, but there are a few passages in the NT (references escape me) that basically say Heaven is Earth, but perfect (in the Biblical sense of being without sin). There's an article in the Belgic Confession (or Heidelberg, I can never remember which one's which) on the topic that I can dig out later if you like.

There is some Biblical precedent for origami's stance of endless prayer and all that, but it's mostly psalms along the lines of "and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever, and praise your name day and night", that sort of thing. Personally I think that's more of a poetic description of gratefulness than literally singing/praying to God 24/7.

Obviously everything regarding the exact nature of Heaven is speculative, but I think there's enough to go on that it won't be that different from life on Earth.

Probably Revalation 21. Anyways, In my oppinion, that is a perfectly valid interpretation. From what I read heaven isn't a specific place, it is where the full presence of God is. Revelation 21 says that God will come to a new earth and there will be no suffering. However, worship is not confined to prayer and singing songs. It can encompass work and basically anything that isn't a sin. As long as you are working to glorify the lord rather then for your own benefit.

[Bohandas]

That's not so bad, then. I'd be interested in where in the Bible that is?

It's not really in the Bible per se, but there are a few passages in the NT (references escape me) that basically say Heaven is Earth, but perfect (in the Biblical sense of being without sin).

That was a Belinda Carlisle song.

[TD1]

That's not so bad, then. I'd be interested in where in the Bible that is?

It's not really in the Bible per se, but there are a few passages in the NT (references escape me) that basically say Heaven is Earth, but perfect (in the Biblical sense of being without sin). There's an article in the Belgic Confession (or Heidelberg, I can never remember which one's which) on the topic that I can dig out later if you like.

There is some Biblical precedent for origami's stance of endless prayer and all that, but it's mostly psalms along the lines of "and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever, and praise your name day and night", that sort of thing. Personally I think that's more of a poetic description of gratefulness than literally singing/praying to God 24/7.

Obviously everything regarding the exact nature of Heaven is speculative, but I think there's enough to go on that it won't be that different from life on Earth.

Probably Revalation 21. Anyways, In my oppinion, that is a perfectly valid interpretation. From what I read heaven isn't a specific place, it is where the full presence of God is. Revelation 21 says that God will come to a new earth and there will be no suffering. However, worship is not confined to prayer and singing songs. It can encompass work and basically anything that isn't a sin. As long as you are working to glorify the lord rather then for your own benefit.

Why does God need to be glorified? The human interpretation of glory involves other people assessing you. What is God's reason for it?

[origamiscienceguy]

it also means "made glorious" in religious contexts.

[TD1]

Alright, why does he need to be made glorious, then. What's the point? Self indulgence?

[MonkeyHead]

I have a hard time understanding why an omnipotent and all powerful deity would need to be adored/worshipped/whatever by its own creations. It just seems so... insecure, what with all the associated rewards/punishments.

[TD1]

The best explanation I can think of is one that may not be palatable to...well, any theist. Dawkins' evolutionary approach - that religion is honed by time to stand by itself. Having a religion that requires you to pray all the time and keep it at the centre of your life seems more likely to survive.