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Any D&D/D20

Shadowrun

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[Loud Whispers]

What should you do if your friend is hopeless addicted to Mugabe inflated numbers? He is torturing another one of my friends to death by exposing him to a campaign where everything is overpowered to the point where the DM has to employ more fiat currency than Zimbabwe to stop the 500HP gigapeasants from annihilating his minmaxed Sorcerer/Paladin/Hexblade Warlock. The two of them are forming some kind of lichen colony where their mutual toxins combine to produce a horrifying blob which is worse than the sum of its parts, and the numbers just don't stop inflating

[scriver]

But LW

Their campaign go to eleven

[MetalSlimeHunt]

maybe the imf can help this underdeveloped fantasy realm 

[Iduno]

I'd just split the entire party income as XP across the entire party equally, regardless of who's physically carrying it much less spending it.  Much like they worked together to kill that troll and would get equal XP from it, they 'worked together' to earn that loot paycheck today.

On 2), if anything in classic D&D leveling was a lot slower.  Keep in mind most all monsters offered pitiful XP rewards for killing them.  A goblin in 1st ed is worth maybe 15xp, split across the entire party, where in 3rd ed he's worth up to 100. A 1st ed Ogre Magi is about 437xp, in 3rd its around 2,400 (if met at 8th level like CR suggests).  Consider also that more monster abilities, especially poison for example, were more save-or-die, so that was another reason to maybe avoid combat.

Also, more XP was needed per level up, and each class leveled up at a different rate.  Thief was the fastest at about 1,500 for level 2, while wizard was much slower.

Also, Hitpoints have been inflated over time to make fights take longer, so you need more xp per kill. In AD&D, goblins got 1 HD, which is 1d8, so about 4 hp for 15 xp. in 5th edition, they've got 7 hp for 50 xp.

The ogre magi is 5 HD +2, so about 24 HP for 650 xp. Ogre mages in 5th edition have 51 HP for 1,800 xp.

It looks like about double hitpoints for about 3 times as much xp?

What should you do if your friend is hopeless addicted to Mugabe inflated numbers? He is torturing another one of my friends to death by exposing him to a campaign where everything is overpowered to the point where the DM has to employ more fiat currency than Zimbabwe to stop the 500HP gigapeasants from annihilating his minmaxed Sorcerer/Paladin/Hexblade Warlock. The two of them are forming some kind of lichen colony where their mutual toxins combine to produce a horrifying blob which is worse than the sum of its parts, and the numbers just don't stop inflating

It sounds like someone "playing wrong" and being punished for it, which pushes them to more extremes. Back to everyone needing to be on the same page for what type of game you're playing.

[Jimmy]

So, my players defeated the vampire ninja boss last game, and one of my traditions is to create a custom magical item as a purchasable reward for the end of each scenario.

This time, it's gonna be a bag of vampire dust.

I figure I'll make it consumed by snorting it in lines, and have it last until they're exposed to sunlight when it's used, and give it a pretty hefty price tag to avoid it being more than a situational consumable. First round exposed to natural sunlight, they're staggered, second round, the dust's effects expire.

I'll have it make them count as undead in addition to their regular type for spells, effects or items that affect creatures of that type, but not grant any traits of the type or qualify for classes, feats or prerequisites for that type. Healed by negative energy, harmed by positive energy, immune to the effects of level drain, similar to dhampir.

Then, gain a random temporary effect from the table, with additional doses having no effect. So far, I have:

1. Gain darkvision 60 ft.
2. Gain or improve natural armor by +6.
3. Gain DR 10/magic and silver, and resistance to cold 10 and electricity 10.
4. Gain Charisma bonus (if any) to hit points in addition to Constitution bonus.
5. Gain the ability to survive without eating, drinking or breathing.
6. Gain immunity to mind affecting effects (charms, compulsions, morale effects, patterns, and phantasms).
7. Gain immunity to bleed, death effects, disease, paralysis, poison, sleep effects, and stunning.
8. Gain immunity to nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, damage to physical ability scores (Constitution, Dexterity, and Strength), exhaustion and fatigue effects.
9. Gain immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
10. Gain fast healing 5.
11. Gain a slam attack which inflicts 2 negative levels, up to once per round, on a hit, which is treated as a magic weapon for purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
12. Gain the ability to suck blood from a grappled opponent; when pinned, opponent is drained 1d4 points of Constitution damage, and user heals 5 hit points or gains 5 temporary hit points that stack and last 1 hour per round of draining blood.
13. Gain the ability to influence another's mind at will, as per the charm person spell, as a standard action.
14. Gain a once per day ability to call forth 1d6+1 rat swarms, 1d4+1 bat swarms, or 2d6 wolves as a standard action. These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve for up to 1 hour.
15. Gain the ability to assume the form of a dire bat or wolf, as beast shape II.
16. Gain the ability to assume gaseous form as a standard action at will, but with the option to remain gaseous indefinitely and with a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.
17. Gain the ability to climb sheer surfaces as if under the effects of a spider climb spell as an extraordinary ability.
18. Gain a +8 bonus on Bluff, Perception, Sense Motive, and Stealth checks.
19. Gain gain Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, and Toughness as bonus feats if not already possessed.
20. Gain Str +6, Dex +4, Int +2, Wis +2, and Cha +4.

I figure 1,500 gp per dose is a tempting yet expensive price for this consumable. Twice the cost of a 3rd level potion, but some great options on the list of possibilities. I can't wait to see the shenanigans my players come up with to avoid being exposed to natural light, too!

[IcyTea31]

Assuming this is Pathfinder, 1500 gp is quite cheap for some of the effect magnitudes on that list. In a high-level game, I'd take that at the start of pretty much every dungeon, not as a situational consumable. There are some weaker effects in there (e.g. at will Charm Person won't do a lot), but it's still definitely worth the gamble. Of course, if you want players to be careful about using it, arm your villains with knowledge about it (or even doses for themselves) and Daylight spells. Or maybe if you use it more than three times between two full moons, you risk turning into a true vampire.

[Jimmy]

Good points! What would you price this effect?

I figured it's about equal to Undead Anatomy IV, which is an 8th level spell, but with a bit of randomness in the results, some being weaker, and some being stronger, but not nearly as reliable. I priced it at half the cost of a scroll of the spell, and made it usable by all classes as it's a scenario reward.

[IcyTea31]

Potions are already double-price scrolls usable by any class, so I'd use that price calculation instead (spell level * caster level * 50 gp). Undead Anatomy IV is a good comparison, since though the effects are random, they also have a longer duration. Going by minimum caster level, a potion of the spell would cost 6000 gp. Throw in the standard 20% discount for being an adventure reward and we get to 4800 gp per dose. If we read it as a 7th-level effect instead for the randomness and the weaker effects, the same calculation places the price at 3640 gp per dose.

Of course, there aren't official rules for high-level potions and you may decide to give a greater discount for the reward, so selling it at 1500 gp isn't out of the question, but I know that as a player I'd use it all the time for that price.

[Loud Whispers]

maybe the imf can help this underdeveloped fantasy realm 

Mr Mugabe austerity measures now¬

[Iduno]

Earthdawn is a setting with a lot of depth that is pretty interesting to think about (I think too much stuff is only for higher-level play for the game to be as good as it should be, but that's different).
Initially it was one of the D&D offshoots that people made back then, with the twist that it was designed from the ground up to have an explanation for why things were the way they were, and it's pretty clear that the history nerds who designed it put a lot of thought into it. There's a reason that it's one of the settings that was considered for the game that would become Fallout.

Spoiler: setting (click to show/hide)

The setting is an alternative Earth bronze age with magical technology (not quite steampunk) with a good amount of background for stuff. Then, an elf who was exiled from the elven nation/forest the Wyrmwood (coincidentally there is a forest in our world that translates to Wormwood, but is locally called Chernobyl) found some ancient texts that he was sure were important. When he finished translating them, he was found dead with his eyes torn out. He had left a message that these books contained a horrible message but would be the salvation of...metahumanity? I'm not sure what term they use, but it was linked with Shadowrun for like half of an edition to promote it, and that's the Shadowrun term, so good enough. It turns out the magic of the world is cyclical, and at the height of the cycle the Horrors are able to breach from their dimension into ours in about 1,000 years. They're essentially evil spirits/demons who corrupt and destroy. They're too powerful and numerous to successfully fight them, but it is possible to protect ourselves by building magical wards in protective structures. The downside is that the Horrors will have the run of the Earth for about 400 years, in what would be known as the Scourge. People didn't really believe the scholars who brought this message to the kingdoms that existed, so they went and formed their own city-state of scholars and mages on an island, and named it Thera. I said this was made by history nerds, so it's interesting to note that the Thira in our world is a city on Santorini island that may have been the basis for the story of Atlantis. It's never made explicit, but it's a kind of cool Easter Egg the devs threw in there.

One of the precursors to the Scourge is insect spirits known as invae showing up and trying to colonize by doing the pod people thing. Of course when this prediction came true, people started getting more interested in those ancient texts, and Thera started to grow even more rapidly. To handle the growth, merchant houses started charging people to come study, having them work off the travel costs. Over time, the costs increased and the terms became more and more one-sided in favor of the merchants. Eventually, Thera became powerful enough that they returned to the part of the world they called Barsaive, willing to trade the secrets of surviving the Scourge in exchange for ruling over the region and all of the kingdoms in it, and also getting all of the wealth and resources they desired. People didn't like the harsh rulership, but they also didn't like their odds of surviving 400 years of demons roaming the Earth corrupting, torturing, and devouring. The Therans also had powerful war airships and a lot of powerful mages. You don't found an evil empire without being able to back it up.

They took over, allowed the dwarven nation of Throal to be their intermediaries, and were fairly happy being distant rulers who recieved a large amount of tribute. There was a war to free Barsaive, which ended with Thera saying "whatever, we're going to go seal ourselves away for the duration of the Scourge anyway, but we totally didn't lose." The dwarves who had been distributing the plans to the shelters (called Kaers) now started distributing them for free. They had also spent the centuries of Theran rule digging a huge mountain kingdom that they could seal off and doing philosophy to determine what a society after the Scourge would look like. They had determined that slavery was bad, and outlawed it. Along with the secrets of the kaers, they distributed books that detailed their philosophy and society, along with teaching materials so Barsaive would have a common language and culture that would be more resistant to Thera's return.

Anyway, there are monsters because the Horrors corrupted and destroyed for 400 years (monsters are horror-corrupted creatures and minor horrors who didn't get forced to leave when magic started falling again, there are dungeons because of the kaers, and heroes wander the world exploring the post-apocalyptic world.

That's a lot of words as a precursor to the thoughts that kept me awake last night: what would society in the kaers look like? They're caves or domed cities or similar defenses that use True Elements (pea-sized grains of elemental power taken from sites of concentrated elements, like True Fire from volcanoes) to protect and sustain themselves. True Water to keep the water source usable, True Fire for heating and smokeless cooking/forges, true air to keep the air breathable, and True Earth to keep the walls sturdy and prevent burrowing creatures/Horrors from entering. Large light crystals are sustained by magic rituals and are renewed annually. But what about sources of food? Clothing? What is done with bodies? What do you do in a cave for generations with no contact with the outside world? What of the kaers that were put together hastily in the time after Thera left but before the Scourge that didn't have enough resources to properly prepare?

And, for obvious reasons, I'm posting these questions on the dwarf fortress forums. What do you think the answers would be?

[scriver]

True Light in the roof to make plant farmable indoors

[heydude6]

Potions are already double-price scrolls usable by any class, so I'd use that price calculation instead (spell level * caster level * 50 gp). Undead Anatomy IV is a good comparison, since though the effects are random, they also have a longer duration. Going by minimum caster level, a potion of the spell would cost 6000 gp. Throw in the standard 20% discount for being an adventure reward and we get to 4800 gp per dose. If we read it as a 7th-level effect instead for the randomness and the weaker effects, the same calculation places the price at 3640 gp per dose.

Of course, there aren't official rules for high-level potions and you may decide to give a greater discount for the reward, so selling it at 1500 gp isn't out of the question, but I know that as a player I'd use it all the time for that price.

It depends on the player though. Some people are stingy with their consumables no matter what. It's possible that no matter what they do, they just won't use it. I like the idea of there being a risk that a player will turn into a vampire with overuse. I think it's a better way of limiting use than plain-old scarcity.

If your players aren't stingy though, then I think a GP price is fine.

[scriver]

Potions are for keeping in your inventory, not for drinking! If you want to drink, get a waterskin!

[MrRoboto75]

Potions are for keeping in your inventory, not for drinking! If you want to drink, get a waterskin!

I mean, I assume cure light wounds potions more or less taste like cold syrup medicine.

[King Zultan]

Can't think of anything to add to the conversation so I'm just gonna leave this here, PTW.