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[King Zultan]

Have you thought of filling the hole in with dirt or rocks.

Also as far as I'm aware the gas powered pumps get the job done faster that an electric one.

[EuchreJack]

Alternatively: Start a Polar Bear Club.

[Frumple]

every time i have reason to look I'm reminded how fucking ridiculously difficult it is to find stuff that just... doesn't... have salt in it. no, damn your eyes, i don't want lower sodium i want no. no sodium. no salt. this shouldn't be so hard to get ;_;

for something that used to be precious, nowadays it's more trouble (and expense!) to get stuff that lacks it, bloody hell

[Il Palazzo]

It was precious because everyone wanted to have it in their everything. Now that you do, you complain.

[Frumple]

Blood pressure complains, at least.

... well, more than that, I've definitely started noticing from taste a lot just how goddam much of the stuff we use. Sometimes I just want to taste something other than salt, y'know? Especially without having to friggin' recreate a supply chain in my kitchen to prep it.

Ended up ordering something fairly low sodium shipped, but I was looking into just making homemade bbq sauce as a quick way to make low/no salt bbq and like. By the time I gave up I was three or four bloody steps in on other stuff I'd have to get and prep without salt to make it. Friggin' capitalism gives me all its damn problems but it won't give me food without salt in it. That's breaking the covenant, man, I sell my soul and my health to the bonfire of suicidal greed and in exchange I can buy shit like saltless bbq, that's how it's supposed to work, but no.

[Il Palazzo]

Well, fair enough. From what I remember shopping for groceries in the US, everything did have too much of all kinds of shit in it. Salt, sugar, fucken mysterious preservatives.
Come to think of it, 'too much' is the general vibe I got from everything out there. A country of excess.

[McTraveller]

My daughter is fixated on wanting to get a cat.  But for some reason she wants a type of cat that is not likely to be found in a shelter and costs like $1000, and that's before shots, etc.

I'm trying to figure out how to do this parenting thing, balancing the concept of letting the kids have a pet against doing it in a way that's not questionably expensive.

[martinuzz]

The 1000 dollar cats are often full of genetic defects and will need a lot of care and money. Expect the 1000 euros to be just the start of the costs.

Over here, a few years ago a law was passed. Thourougbred races are illegal nowadays, it is considered animal cruelty to breed them.

[dragdeler]

I'd pitch it to her like that: so we can run around the country, get the crazy expensive kitten, that is more likely to fall ill and/or not grow old... And if you're unlucky it's an asshole too. Or we can look around our regional shelters and get you the cuddliest cat we can find.

[KittyTac]

Convince her to get a shelter cat or at least a common, non-inbred breed. They're the smartest, longest-lived, and friendliest cats. Thai cat is older than me and still kicking.

[McTraveller]

We also have the real risk that any cat will trigger my wife's allergies.  She used to have cats, but as she's gotten older seems to be more allergic.

It's just tough when things like price and cat demeanor and stuff are not really things easily comprehended by an eight-year-old who has her heart set on getting a pet.

[martinuzz]

Learning that you can't always get what you want (or at least not right away) is also an important life lesson.
Did she have any pets before?
If not, maybe start with something less long lived and bonding than a cat. Rabbit, hamster, guinea pig, you name it. Tell her that she can show that she can care for a low tier animal before upgrading to a higher tier pet lol.

[Frumple]

It's just tough when things like price and cat demeanor and stuff are not really things easily comprehended by an eight-year-old who has her heart set on getting a pet.

"Kitty" absolutely is, though -- if you can safely swing a visit to a shelter, you're about guaranteed one of the adorable things will catch their eye even if they're currently fixated on a specific breed. Fluff in the hand right now is worth two in yesterday's pre-teen head.

... allergies are more of a concern, though. There's some fur types that shed less, but things get more complicated at that point.

e: rabbit, hamsters, and guinea pigs are all much more of a pain in the ass to care for than a cat, in my experience, though. Plus far more likely to be eaten by something. It'd just go straight for kitty, they're one of the lowest maintenance pets in existence.

[McTraveller]

Yeah cats are very low maintenance, and I'm also not opposed for the idea of having an anti-rodent device in the house (see previous discussions in these forums about our war on mice).

We've had fish before, but that's a very different category of pet.

[Grim Portent]

Another vote for checking out shelter cats. A surprising number of them are really good animals that wound up in shelters because of stuff to do with their owners rather than the cat itself.

Alternately you can look around for anyone who does feral kitten rehab, socialised feral kittens are generally used to a lot of human contact, what with it being the whole point of rehabilitating them. Used to have a feral kitten (Oscar, he was blind) my sister found by some bins when we were kids, he grew up to be super affectionate and loved being near people to the point of sleeping on people's shoulders.

Or just keep an eye out for anyone who's moggy is having kittens in the area, it's fairly normal in most places for people to want to give away kittens that came from them not having a fixed animal. Especially around the time the mommy cat is getting sick of them, because they become a lot more work about then. Make sure the kitten is weaned fully in that case though, I used to have a cat (Bea) who was serparated from her mum too early and she never really adjusted properly. It can lead to things like suckling on people's earlobes which is honestly pretty painful.

That said, some predigree cat breeds are a good choice to have around kids. Ragdolls, Maine Coons, Bombays and a few others are generally more tolerant of or even actively seek out human affection in ways that some cats might not, but there is also something to be said for cats that will make it clear when they want some time to themselves when it comes to children. You don't want a cat that will outright maul people when it gets annoyed, but a good warning thwack or scratch isn't a bad thing now and then.


Or get her a frog, one of the big ones, like an African Bullfrog. Huge fat things, built like a tank with the appetite of a dinosaur. Insist it's a cat, call it Paws or Mittens or something, act confused when she tries to tell you it's a frog. Downside; she'll probably think you've gone mad. Upside; you'll have a frog.