Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[LordBaal]

Is not a coup on the basis they (Maduro and Co) aren't the state anymore, not since last january 10th and remain in power by momentun and brute force, not by true democratic mechanisms.

[Teneb]

It appears to be a combination coup and revolution/popular uprising. Gotta wonder if the coup part is spontaneous or planned though.

Usually, only the leadership matters when it comes to figuring out which is the case.

Anyway, shit is going down right now so expect the thread to get updated pretty fast.

Is not a coup on the basis they (Maduro and Co) aren't the state anymore, not since last january 10th and remain in power by momentun and brute force, not by true democratic mechanisms.

A de-facto State is still a State, my friend. And States don't need to be democratic. They just need to Be. You could argue that Guaidó has splintered the State into his own and Maduro's, but he was part of the State when he began the whole process, which is what tends to be used when it comes down to classification.

[smjjames]

Well, it's being used in the broader definition of a coup which is to 'remove a leader by force', though everybody seems to be using different terms for the whole thing, mainly depending on the point of view. Guaido's ambassador to the US is calling it a constitutional crisis.

It appears to be a combination coup and revolution/popular uprising. Gotta wonder if the coup part is spontaneous or planned though.

Usually, only the leadership matters when it comes to figuring out which is the case.

Anyway, shit is going down right now so expect the thread to get updated pretty fast.

Is not a coup on the basis they (Maduro and Co) aren't the state anymore, not since last january 10th and remain in power by momentun and brute force, not by true democratic mechanisms.

A de-facto State is still a State, my friend. And States don't need to be democratic. They just need to Be. You could argue that Guaidó has splintered the State into his own and Maduro's, but he was part of the State when he began the whole process, which is what tends to be used when it comes down to classification.

As I said, the word used depends on your point of view.

Starting to get bloody now. Context is that a video shows National Guard troops running over protestors, but the video isn't in the link itself, but is linked at the The Guardian liveblog post.

edit: *sees thread title change* I wouldn't call it a 'Venezuelan civil war' since it doesn't really meet the definition of a civil war, more of a popular revolt. If theres any counterprotestors clashing against the protestors, I haven't heard anything about it.

[Teneb]

Hence the question mark. It could be the start of one. If it calms down enough that it doesn't get to that point, and I hope that's what happens, I'll change it to something less alarmist.

EDIT: Went and changed it to please the People.

[LordBaal]

The words civil unrest invariably makes me think in civilization ii and iii.

Anyway, I dont think we are poised for a civil war although confrontations and skirmishes are prone to occur amongst the diferent groups of military and civilians from  both sides. At the moment it seems it's way less than half the military is backing Guaido but who knows... they are calling more people to the street to show our unrest and discontent and there are tons of rumors and gossip. I'll stay put here with a large stick and a knife just in case some unarmed or ligth armed punk want to come in, which is unlikely anyway since we haven't much and is really aparent.

[dragdeler]

-

[smjjames]

Belgium is kind of a special case though. Not sure what Belgium going without a proper government for almost 600 days has to do with the current situation in Venezuela.

[EnigmaticHat]

Belgium didn't have an elected government, but the non-elected officials didn't stop working during that time.

[dragdeler]

-

[dragdeler]

-

[smjjames]

On a sidenote according to Bild (...) Maduro was dissuated by the russians to flee to Cuba.

That's according to Sec. of State Pompeo's words. Russia, naturally, replied with 'No we didn't'.

[bloop_bleep]

Posting to watch.

I hope if the coup is successful the international community lends its aid to rebuilding the Venezuelan economy.

“lends its aid” = “seizes the sweet, succulent opportunity of filling a power vacuum”

[ChairmanPoo]

for what I've read it seems the coup is a bust.  A few groups people, incl Leopoldo Lopez and 24 of Guaido's original 100 soldiers have taken refuge in some embassies in Caracas. Seems to point to low expectations of success

[smjjames]

Yeah, they never got anywhere close to their goal (they may or may not have nearly made Maduro flee the country though) and from a blogpost on The Guardian, apparently they had more support previously but some of the support balked and Guaido moved up the timetable to today.

We'll see whether Maduro goes brutal crackdown or not. I know he didn't do anything remotely brutal with previous protests, but dictatorships tend to react to situations like this brutally.

[dragdeler]

-