Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Egan_BW]

Your aim as a Pro-Russian is simply to point out the actual historical facts of the situation and once you have done this, your Ukrainiak will gradually deflate a bit like how a balloon pops when you prick it with a pin.  Ukraine's false halo depends upon ignorance in order to exist and for this reason most Ukrainiaks are enthusiastic bullies and censors.  An advantage of the deflation process is they become less censorious the less fanatical they are owing to knowing facts which contradict the core fantasy.

A strategy which could perhaps work if you bothered to use citations so that we know that what you're asserting is, in fact, actual historical fact. How can you think you'll ever gain the advantage testing random assertation against random assertation?

[jipehog]

As to my comment about being less confident in Ukraine's ability to win the war, that's just a blanket statement based on how it feels the news has changed over the last few months.  Ukraine stopped gaining a lot of territory and started losing some.  Could that just be from them trying to build up for another offensive?  Maybe, but if Russia keeps using human wave tactics to wear them down it may not matter.

A war is long term game and news are not necessarily the best indicator for where things go.

As for your feeling, I think we have been here already.. When the euphoria after Russia failure in Kyiv and the north was replaced with months in which we mainly heard about the constant Russian attacks. Even though we know that Russia paid a huge prices for very little gain and ended up playing into Ukraine hands, this constant pressure with claims of victory (often over the same place they "won" and lost months before ad nauseam) gives regular folks that mostly just read the headlines the impression that Russia is winning.

Here too we felt the euphoria from major territorial gains by Ukrainian, which in a week achieved more than half year of Russian field wankery, but now looks like we on the brink of yet another "long wait"..  Where I believe that Russia will hold the initiative for few month in hope of securing gains and we will see Ukraine moves later this year as conditions for victory mature.

Edit:
p.s. consider that all this talk of sending advanced tanks to Ukraine, will require at least couple of month of training crews for the job.. So for now we are doing the equivalent of medieval shield wall, you brace and then you attack when they lose their edge.

[bloop_bleep]

Sorry, I would read your message, but I have to go to an emergency session of Satanist Book Club. We were supposed to read the satanist book of witchcraft Harry Potter but then our trans overlords told us the author is actually a defender of traditional morality so Harry Potter is now banned from all future meetings of Satanist Book Club. As you can tell it is all very confusing.

[hector13]

If RD could find logical consistency in their arguments, maybe they would be taken more seriously.

* hector13 shakes is head

I’m so disappointed it’s just some shitty anti-democracy bullshit, I thought we were really onto something new and interesting.

[The_Explorer]

If RD could find logical consistency in their arguments, maybe they would be taken more seriously.

* hector13 shakes is head

I’m so disappointed it’s just some shitty anti-democracy bullshit, I thought we were really onto something new and interesting.

Not to side swipe the entire point of the thread. But as someone who voted for biden and would again (though I'd prefer someone else), and hillary...and so on and so on...(though I did vote for bush, so I don't just vote democrats, john kerry wasn't much a fan of, though bush's war based on lies just for oil ruined it for me, if it wasn't for that I'd have liked him way more, I thought he was good overall (especially afterward post-presidency) just not the war)...either way, just putting out there where I'm coming from to start with.

I see a point where democracy doesn't work in its current stage (in the US specifically, more than in europe/canada/australia). Democracy only works if BOTH sides can agree (at least some or a majority of the time, through deals etc). In the US, both sides are on a complete divide and hate each other. Republicans accuse democrats as socialists/commies, democrats accuse republicans of russian allegience and being nazis. There is tons of racial hatred, borderline civil unrest, an attempted weird takeover of the government when trump the loser lost.

Imagine someone like trump showed up and tried to incite a rebellion in china for example...he'd uh...well...china takes people like that and makes them disappear, solves the problem completely.

I'd rather have democracy than china (I definitely don't want to disappear or be taken to "reeducation" (which is probably torture) just cause I don't agree with something the government does. But democracy can't work if both sides hate each other. And democracy can't work if its one sided either, as that is no longer democracy.

To add, I think the US would be a ton better off if it wasn't two party majority. If all parties had an equal chance of winning, I think it solve a lot of problems, but maybe not.

Also to further add. I feel this post even though I made it, is probably a ton better topic starter even if its not really related to the point of the thread than that...uh...what appears to be a that certain poster posting over and over with weird posts (to put it lightly)

[Devastator]

I wonder what the current estimates are for Russia's remaining functional tanks.  The estimates I've seen put them at having lost about 3,260 tanks so far, which is mind boggling.  But those same estimates claim Russia only had about 3,300 to start with, so something clearly isn't adding up.  I'm guessing they just have a lot more in some functional shape than that.

I haven't really been tracking the current Russian offensive but what I did read sounded pretty bad for the Ukrainian defenders.  I'm hoping for the best, but don't have the same level of confidence that Ukraine will be able to keep the Russians at bay or reclaim all of its territory that I had a few months ago.

My numbers are about 2000-2200 destroyed/captured compared to ~3000 operational, + 2000 repairable, (of about 6500 parked tanks) and about fifty to a hundred new ones.  A very severe loss.  But that's mostly just napkin math.

As for the current Russian offensive, it's looking extremely pyrrhic.  These are really significant casualties for very little, if any gain.  There's just no benefit to shoving units into minefields and getting them cut up, even if you force a retreat from a few villages.  This isn't sunshine and happiness, but this is Russia throwing everything it can into the front lines and getting barely any results.

Otherwise, I don't track the daily changes either, they can be interesting but overall unimportant in the grand scheme (We had many month in which Russia seem to be pushing forward with full speed ahead but it turned out strategically they have been in neutral all along) As for predicting the future, I have been wrong on many occasions, some of the biggest initial perceptions I glad to get rid off is that Russia can't lose and that this will be a short war.

You can learn quite a bit from what exactly you see.  Like in the last Ukrainian advance, seeing pictures of a line of Russian SPGs that took tank fire was far more informative than raw numbers, as it showed what exactly happened and where.  The numbers do matter in aggregate, but like anything else, that's one piece of information and needs to be combined with other information to come to an accurate conclusion.

In this one we've got a captured Russian SPG which means this isn't a one-sided advance, several mixed units, captured Russian soldiers who are professionals rather than mobilized, and an awful lot of kills through mines or artillery.  That means this isn't quite as desperate as it could be, due to the lack of man-portable AT weapon kills, and there are at least some counterattacks going on.  Probably rough, but this is Ukrainians doing well.

[Devastator]

Also note, that tank estimate is that Russia has as many tanks functional as they started with, although many of them are now older, and they have consumed most of the repairable ones from their depots.  Its how they still have many left despite losing many..  losses are now permanent irreparable losses, whereas for a good while they were replaceable by ones getting repaired.

[EuchreJack]

Sorry, I would read your message, but I have to go to an emergency session of Satanist Book Club. We were supposed to read the satanist book of witchcraft Harry Potter but then our trans overlords told us the author is actually a defender of traditional morality so Harry Potter is now banned from all future meetings of Satanist Book Club. As you can tell it is all very confusing.

We're still good with Lord of the Rings, right?

[lemon10]

If RD could find logical consistency in their arguments, maybe they would be taken more seriously.

Nah, the only reason everyone is ignoring them now is because they started talking about "Western Satanists", if they hadn't gotten quite so ridiculous people would have still been arguing with them.
As it is they got thrown into the "crazy Q-anon/homeless street preacher" category where even random internet people realize its not worth it to argue with you.

E:
Amusingly enough it also "lost" them the debate. As a troll you keep on winning as long as you can keep people engaged (and typically enraged) and arguing with you.
But if you manage to simply make everyone not care about arguing with you then you lose.

[EuchreJack]

Sorry, I would read your message, but I have to go to an emergency session of Satanist Book Club. We were supposed to read the satanist book of witchcraft Harry Potter but then our trans overlords told us the author is actually a defender of traditional morality so Harry Potter is now banned from all future meetings of Satanist Book Club. As you can tell it is all very confusing.

We're still good with Lord of the Rings, right?

To answer my own question:
1) Scene where Gandalf smokes weed his pipe with children hobbits
2) Trans man Improperly dressed princess abducts assists a wayward child hobbit in fleeing properly authority riding off to battle
...we're good 

[bloop_bleep]

Sorry, I would read your message, but I have to go to an emergency session of Satanist Book Club. We were supposed to read the satanist book of witchcraft Harry Potter but then our trans overlords told us the author is actually a defender of traditional morality so Harry Potter is now banned from all future meetings of Satanist Book Club. As you can tell it is all very confusing.

We're still good with Lord of the Rings, right?

To answer my own question:
1) Scene where Gandalf smokes weed his pipe with children hobbits
2) Trans man Improperly dressed princess abducts assists a wayward child hobbit in fleeing properly authority riding off to battle
...we're good 

Yes, we're on for that. Later on we can speak in serpent tongues about unsexy M&Ms or if we're feeling particularly naughty satanically refuse to bootlick authority.

Just hope we don't run into the Santaist Book Club, the reindeers shit everywhere. Or the Sandanist Book Club who keep arguing with the former about North Pole agrarian land reform.

[hector13]

If RD could find logical consistency in their arguments, maybe they would be taken more seriously.

Nah, the only reason everyone is ignoring them now is because they started talking about "Western Satanists", if they hadn't gotten quite so ridiculous people would have still been arguing with them.
As it is they got thrown into the "crazy Q-anon/homeless street preacher" category where even random internet people realize its not worth it to argue with you.

E:
Amusingly enough it also "lost" them the debate. As a troll you keep on winning as long as you can keep people engaged (and typically enraged) and arguing with you.
But if you manage to simply make everyone not care about arguing with you then you lose.

Even within the madness there’s no logical consistency.

People support democracy because it undermines the authority of rulers (put in place by democracy!) but they are always on board when someone rebels against democracy (which does not apply to Ukraine, Yanukovuch was ousted by democratically elected parliamentarians after they voted for closer ties to Europe and he opted to completely ignore that and attempt to tie the country to Russia) because folk in the West are culturally predisposed to support rebels, because of the OG Star Wars trilogy.

This of course has no corroborating evidence, and (at the risk of de-railing the thread) ignores the reality of things like Trump’s recent attempts to challenges the results of the 2020 election through various means, which only similarly mad people accepted as reasonable.

He also mentioned at some point that the president of Ukraine and their parliament (or whatever they’re called) should be considered equal, but absolutely refuses to consider Yanukovuch unilaterally deciding to completely ignore what parliament vote for and do his own thing as a problem. He even suggested at one point that Ukraine is more similar to the USA’s form of government… but forgets that the legislature there has the power to impeach the executive, which is exactly what happened in Ukraine.

Spoiler: Star Wars sidetrack (click to show/hide)

He also mentioned that the prequel trilogy weren’t liked because it wasn’t about rebelling against authority, rather than it just not being as good as the OF trilogy.

Equally so, having considered this, the prequels are really all about Palpatine’s rise to being the ultimate dictator, and the quite frankly stunning manipulations (yes I know it’s fiction) he engages in to get there over the course of all three films.

Surely Western Satanists would like the movies better because it’s basically showing how right the rebels were in the OG trilogy to actually want to overthrow him? Particularly since the best actor in the those films is the guy playing Palpy.

[Strongpoint]

Spoiler: more Star Wars side track (click to show/hide)

And now the Disney subtype of Western Satanists produces Star Wars shows like Andor, in which rebels are anything but pure good

Those Satanists are hard to figure out

[scriver]

[spoiler=Star Wars sidetrack]He also mentioned that the prequel trilogy weren’t liked because it wasn’t about rebelling against authority, rather than it just not being as good as the OF trilogy.

Yeah I don't know about you guys but I liked the OnlyFans trilogy for entirely different reasons

[King Zultan]

Disney star wars is the worst star wars, it's like they just bought the franchise just to take a big shit on it.

The Western Satanism is a name given by myself (and Putin)

Does that mean you and Putin are friends?


Also this Western Satanist thing has been very informative and now I wish to join a Satanist cult and start a revolution or something.