Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 102 103 [104] 105 106 ... 143

Author Topic: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0  (Read 103059 times)

anewaname

  • Bay Watcher
  • The mattock... My choice for problem solving.
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1545 on: October 20, 2023, 01:49:34 pm »

The USA arrested quite a few and jailed some, wikipedia says:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There also were the inevitable conflicts between police and protesters.

I expected Russia would be more aggressive about enforcement, but maybe they don't need to.
Logged
How did I manage to successfully apply the lessons of The Screwtape Letters to my perceptions of big grocery stores?
     and
If you're going to kill me, I'm allowed to scream.

King Zultan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1546 on: October 21, 2023, 04:18:55 am »

I bet they'll start getting more aggressive about it when they finally run out of dumb asses that join willingly.
Logged
The Lawyer opens a briefcase. It's full of lemons, the justice fruit only lawyers may touch.
Make sure not to step on any errant blood stains before we find our LIFE EXTINGUSHER.
but anyway, if you'll excuse me, I need to commit sebbaku.
Quote from: Leodanny
Can I have the sword when you’re done?

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1547 on: October 21, 2023, 08:19:27 am »

I bet they'll start getting more aggressive about it when they finally run out of dumb asses that join willingly.

Sure, as much as the elections of Putin are a farce I expect no drastic mobilization until after the Russian presidential elections in March. After that Russia may go full on human waves
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1548 on: October 23, 2023, 01:26:44 pm »

Erdogan finally approved of and signed the papers for Sweden's application to NATO
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1549 on: October 24, 2023, 01:35:43 am »

Russia has started recruiting women for combat tasks in Ukraine such as sniper and drone operator.
Before, women only worked in the army as medical staff or kitchen staff.
I guess they are running out of willing men.

British Intelligence estimates that 190 thousand men have been either killed or wounded in such a way that they will never fight again.
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

Lord Shonus

  • Bay Watcher
  • Angle of Death
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1550 on: October 24, 2023, 03:43:36 am »

British Intelligence estimates that 190 thousand men have been either killed or wounded in such a way that they will never fight again.

Source so nobody has to go looking for it.

This is a number that requires context. First of all, it does not include any casualties suffered by Wagner Group or their prisoner battalions. Explicitly. Second, if you add in the temporarily wounded claims from the UK, you get between 240,000 and 290,000 total casualties for Russia. It is also worth comparing to other wars.

In the Vietnam War, the United States suffered 58,281 KIA and 303,644 WIA. Of the latter group, 153,303 needed hospital attention. If we assume that all of that hospital group was permanently disabled (they weren't), you would get 211584 as the US equivalent to the figure the UK is claiming for Russia. The US total figure from Vietnam is 361925.

Meaning that, if the UK is right and applying the most generous-to-Russia possible interpretation of the data, Russia is already coming close to what the US lost in Vietnam. Except that the main US involvment in Vietnam was a 9 year span from 1963 to 1972.

US casualties in  WWI (1917-1918) were 116,708 KIA and 204,002 WIA. Far less than the Russian figures. The US only fought in the last year and a half of that war, but were caught in some of the most violent battles.
US casualties in WWII (1942-1945) were 407,300 KIA and 671,801 WIA. Greater than the current Russian figures, but in three years instead of two.

Logged
On Giant In the Playground and Something Awful I am Gnoman.
Man, ninja'd by a potentially inebriated Lord Shonus. I was gonna say to burn it.

heydude6

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1551 on: October 24, 2023, 08:46:38 pm »

Suddenly that joke about Russian soldiers willingly boarding trains to their own extermination camps is a lot less funny. Humans can be really pathetic sometimes.
Logged
Lets use the ancient naval art of training war parrots. No one will realize they have been boarded by space war parrots until it is to late!
You can fake being able to run on water. You can't fake looking cool when you break your foot on a door and hit your head on the floor.

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1552 on: October 26, 2023, 09:40:23 am »

A delegation from Hamas has arrived in Moscow, according to Russian state media.

The visiting group is reportedly led by Mousa Mohammed Abu Marzook, a senior representative of the militant organization.

No official visit has been announced, and it is unclear who the delegation plans to meet with.


Khe, khe, khe. I think it will help Israeli-Russian relations tremendously.
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

martinuzz

  • Bay Watcher
  • High dwarf
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1553 on: October 26, 2023, 08:43:21 pm »

The White House reports that the Russian military is actually shooting and executing their own soldiers for not following orders.
According to John Kirby 'we have information that Russia actually executed soldiers for refusing to follow orders.'
'Furthermore, we have information that Russian commanders threaten to execute entire units if they retreat to escape Ukrainian artillery fire'.
Logged
Friendly and polite reminder for optimists: Hope is a finite resource

We can ­disagree and still love each other, ­unless your disagreement is rooted in my oppression and denial of my humanity and right to exist - James Baldwin

http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=73719.msg1830479#msg1830479

King Zultan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1554 on: October 27, 2023, 05:22:21 am »

The further into the war we get the more Russia devolves back to what it was during WWI.
Logged
The Lawyer opens a briefcase. It's full of lemons, the justice fruit only lawyers may touch.
Make sure not to step on any errant blood stains before we find our LIFE EXTINGUSHER.
but anyway, if you'll excuse me, I need to commit sebbaku.
Quote from: Leodanny
Can I have the sword when you’re done?

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1555 on: November 06, 2023, 10:04:56 am »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZR9PaQkj2M

So, looks like Ukrainian special forces did an operation in Sudan killing Wagner's fighters. (it is not definitely proven that it is Sudan and Wagner, ofc, but I see Kyiv Post as a reliable source)
_________________________

It will be a long, long war waged in many ways and in many places. Intensity and methods may change but it won't be over until either Ukraine or Russia cease to exist as political entities and probably even beyond that
« Last Edit: November 06, 2023, 10:16:41 am by Strongpoint »
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Starver

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1556 on: November 08, 2023, 04:29:06 pm »

Russia missile hits Liberian ship, manned by Filipinos, intended for China...

(...to summarise the reported info. Obviously facts/intentions are sparse and one-sided, at the moment, but interesting to note in passing.)

« Last Edit: November 08, 2023, 04:53:59 pm by Starver »
Logged

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1557 on: November 09, 2023, 09:49:18 am »

The further into the war we get the more Russia devolves back to what it was during WWI.
We've already seen guns from the Russian Empire being fielded. Pre-WWI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZR9PaQkj2M

So, looks like Ukrainian special forces did an operation in Sudan killing Wagner's fighters. (it is not definitely proven that it is Sudan and Wagner, ofc, but I see Kyiv Post as a reliable source)
_________________________

It will be a long, long war waged in many ways and in many places. Intensity and methods may change but it won't be over until either Ukraine or Russia cease to exist as political entities and probably even beyond that
Idk if Ukraine would send special forces all the way to Sudan in the middle of a war where they need all hands on deck. It could be any number of white-skinned mercenary groups who are fighting against Wagner group, e.g. south africans or zimbabweans. Or americans. Or it could even be Ukrainian mercenaries... Or in the funniest twist of fate, Russian mercenaries
« Last Edit: November 09, 2023, 10:00:37 am by Loud Whispers »
Logged

Strongpoint

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1558 on: November 09, 2023, 10:25:29 am »

Quote from: Loud Whispers
Idk if Ukraine would send special forces all the way to Sudan in the middle of a war where they need all hands on deck.

I am hearing this a lot and I don't get this logic. The main idea of a war is hurting your enemy. Striking against Russian assets anywhere in the world is exactly the job for special forces. Why would they limit themselves to Ukraine? Especially considering that special forces are harder to use on a battlefield of a full-scale war.
Logged
They ought to be pitied! They are already on a course for self-destruction! They do not need help from us. We need to redress our wounds, help our people, rebuild our cities!

Loud Whispers

  • Bay Watcher
  • They said we have to aim higher, so we dug deeper.
    • View Profile
    • I APPLAUD YOU SIRRAH
Re: Emotional Responses to War in Ukraine - Trollbait 2.0
« Reply #1559 on: November 09, 2023, 10:53:29 am »

I am hearing this a lot and I don't get this logic. The main idea of a war is hurting your enemy. Striking against Russian assets anywhere in the world is exactly the job for special forces. Why would they limit themselves to Ukraine? Especially considering that special forces are harder to use on a battlefield of a full-scale war.
UK military logic is warfare is about getting your enemy to do what you want them to do, and ultimately to get them to not want to fight anymore. Sometimes this is about killing your enemy, but there are times when this is counter-productive. E.g. leaving an enemy with no surrender is likely to prolong the fight not end it. Very famous quote from a British officer where he successfully managed to trick the Italians in WWII into thinking the British were going to attack Somaliland instead of Djibouti, when the British were actually planning to attack Djibouti. The expectation was that the Italians would reinforce Somaliland, leaving Djibouti open. Instead the Italians retreated from Somaliland to Djibouti. Hence the quote "I realised now my goal was not to trick the Italians, but to get them to do what we wanted."

Same sort of logic. History is full of many cases where killing your enemy is worse than letting them live. During the Napoleonic wars Commodore Philip Sidney Smith negotiated the surrender of Jean-Baptiste Kleber's french garrison at Alexandria. The British would have gained Alexandria, all the French guns, and in turn would have ferried the French troops as well as Kleber back to France, with no casualties on either side. The British admiralty under Admiral Kieth however overruled the commodore and they assaulted Alexandria. After thousands of deaths on both sides, the French got the exact same terms of surrender, except now thousands were dead on both sides, including Kleber who was one of the few high ranking officers who openly criticised and mocked Napoleon.

History anecdotes aside, I'm not saying it's impossible or illogical for Ukrainian special forces to travel to Sudan to kill Wagner fighters. It's just... Isn't that a poor use of scarce resources? It's not about just the geographical proximity to Ukraine, it's about the purpose and the cost involved. Traveling all the way to an interior landlocked nation to take shots at mercenaries who don't really impact the course of the war or have any political importance just seems like a high investment for low reward. Stuff like Ukrainian special forces conducting deep amphibious raids to blow up Crimean bridges vital to supplying front-line Russian trenches or conducting drone strikes deep inside Russian territory against Russian air fields force Russia to spend vast quantities of resources defending their assets against potential future commando raids.

This could just be a failure of my imagination though. On second review I could definitely see the Ukrainian government sending Ukrainian special forces to kill Wagner group as part of a strategy to deprive Russia of gold used to dodge sanctions. And Ukrainian special forces working in conjunction with Sudanese armed forces could actually serve as a very cost-effective deployment of forces with an outsized impact on the Ukrainian war
Pages: 1 ... 102 103 [104] 105 106 ... 143