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Author Topic: DF Talk: Playstyles and You  (Read 74973 times)

Frango Nicolbidok

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #90 on: November 14, 2011, 04:34:28 pm »

Simulationist.
Quote
2:  Simulationist: Simulationist players are the ones who want the game to provide a rich, realistic experience.  To them, Adventure mode (like UnReal World) should be a gritty affair of cause and effect, with cold and hunger taken into account, weapons rusting, sticks breaking underneath their feet.  Fortress mode would eventually have a solid economics and diplomacy system, with ecology and all of that taken into account, like Civilization and Sim Earth, only more inherently violent.

By this definition, I can honestly say this is what I am.

My mind is a system of rich imagination, just waiting for something oh-so descriptive to come along. I like to be able and close my eyes and imagine that I am a hardened Swordsdwarf in a dense forest, fighting an elf with distinguishable features as I stab him in the head from the back with my sword and then let go of the sword, letting him suffer a slow death, where I'll eventually walk over to him and take out the sword with the blade laced with blood.

Being a simulationist, Dwarf Fortress allows my mind to burst with imaginative scenarios like no other game can, because all other games have "real" graphics, which is something (I believe) isn't fun about being a Gamist because having the imaginative scene just being given to you through your eyes with no thought involved isn't as fun and exciting as having your mind turning it's cranks and gears.

I believe the game is about the experience you have playing, not reaching the goal.
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Rumrusher

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #91 on: November 14, 2011, 07:44:55 pm »

So what kind of guy Am I if all I do is add more features to Dwarf fortress more than playing it never really dive into fort mode or into complicated Adventure reactions?

So gamist hate "losing is fun", simist are fond of "Losing is fun", and Creatist find ways to have more fun with Losing?

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h3lblad3

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #92 on: November 14, 2011, 09:08:17 pm »

Simulationist, I suppose.
I'm really looking forward to economic updates, mostly for adventure mode.
I want to start a business from the ground up, fund a caravan, or even die trying to defend that caravan.
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Jake

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #93 on: November 14, 2011, 10:21:49 pm »

Simulationist/constructionist. I avoid using danger rooms, trap spam and anything else that feels too much like an exploit, and once I have the basic necessities sorted out I can spend hours on elaborate and ultimately rather pointless beautification projects like art galleries in worked-out mineral veins or a completely self-sufficient disaster shelter.
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Duuvian

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #94 on: November 15, 2011, 12:04:43 am »

Simulationist mostly, with some constructionist.
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EveryZig

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #95 on: November 15, 2011, 12:45:57 am »

So gamist hate "losing is fun", simist are fond of "Losing is fun", and Creatist find ways to have more fun with Losing?
Not exactly. (Some) gameists like "losing is fun" in the sense that much of the best gameplay is when you are up against massive odds (though there is a fuzzy line between entertaining hard and frustrating hard).

I am some of all three categories, but I am mostly a mix between gameist and creatist. My favoite part (in DF and lots of other games) is creating new and clever ways to overcome the various obstacles (often through destroying them).
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Murphy

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #96 on: November 15, 2011, 01:11:09 am »

Does devlog readist count as subtype of sumulationist also?
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Neonivek

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #97 on: November 15, 2011, 02:17:00 am »

Does devlog readist count as subtype of sumulationist also?

It counts as not playing the game >_>

Given that this is "Playstyles" I don't think it counts.
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Skye4485

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« Reply #98 on: November 15, 2011, 11:04:01 am »

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« Last Edit: March 25, 2024, 06:56:49 pm by Skye4485 »
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Karakzon

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #99 on: November 15, 2011, 01:18:44 pm »

would have to say that embarking anywere but on a challanging site like terrifying glacier etc leads to boredom for me. Unless the site has an interesting set of geological features like a 30 z level waterfall.
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RabidAnubis

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #100 on: November 15, 2011, 04:35:24 pm »

I think that situationist is bad to call it.

What you should ask is am I in the game for it's Game play, it's Art (One of the very few games that has it), or for building crap.

I don't want anything realistic, I want the game to remain the way it is.

So if it was like this, I would want it to be

Art
Gameplay
Simulation
Construction

I actually view Dwarf fortress as a horrible satire about humanity.  And a good one at that.


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PlainTextMan

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #101 on: November 15, 2011, 05:41:52 pm »

A very interesting analysis of patterns here, Captain!

Opinion: Capntastic gives the somewhat unscrupulous definition of "gamist". It is not entirely with the art.

Quote
1:  Gamist:  Gamist players are the people who see DF as a 'game'.   They want Adventure mode to have more straightforward Roguelike mechanics (Nethack, ADOM), and Fort mode to have more straightforward challenges and goals (Real time strategy games) They want to win, they want a challenge, they want the high score and the points.   They want the slick loot and the coherent gameplay mechanics they can manipulate to allow them to crush their enemies.  They want a steadily rising challenge curve.

And people, DF is a game in the sense that we play it for entertainment, just like every other game.

Whereas I agree in part with Capntastic's definition of "Gamist", here is my take on the term:
Gamist: Someone who enjoys taking up and conquering the (sometimes insurmountable and often unpredictable) challenges that the game provides, ie. enjoys solving the problems that the game poses them, and solving them in different (sometimes magma very creative) ways.

The statements of wanting a non-frustrating interface and rising challenge curve are still hold, of course. To that end, you may as well mention the roguelike Stone Soup as an example. That thing's refined user interface is such a joy.

This definition overlaps more with the other two "classes of DF user". For example, !!SCIENCE!! is a part simulation-based thing, and part gamist thing (it provides unique challenges and game mechanics to abuse, but is also a complex, simulated matter).

I do think that the other two categories are quite valid, and that together the three provide a pretty good picture of DF's user base.

If the fellow forumers would bear with me for a True Story I think relevant to the discussion:

One thing that I'm thinking of just now: even though I'm already quite a bit older than the average sand-castle builder (what's with peoples' ageism?), whenever I go on holiday to a beach, I love building a sand castle right in front of the rising tide's incoming waves (I understand some ocean shores don't actually have waves or sand. Here we have both). It's an uphill battle, and ultimately impossible. But it's fun. And not just because of the losing in the end. It's also physically exhausting if you keep at it and eventually displace many litres of sand with your bare hands.

It has elements of a game: the problem, and solving it in a partially-creative, partially-predictable way (that ratio I think largely determines the type of game). Shaped sand barriers, draining trenches, mud pits, wall planning etc. It has elements of constructionism, for obvious reasons. Rising my little castle walls above the menacing waves is fun in its own right. And lastly, I take a strange joy in analysing and just admiring little wonders of physics that are a part of the whole process. The mud flows, the patterns in the sand, the ways that different walls erode, the way waves ride eachother etc. That's the simulationist part of it.

Anyhow, I think we can rather summarize play styles in ratio format: Gamist:Constructionist/'Creationist':Simulationist.

I'd say that, for DF, my G:C:S ratio* is around 7:5:8. I'm thoroughly enjoying the challenge of keeping alive a tiny fort in a glacier while constructing a magma pumpstack over 100 z-levels deep. However, one of the biggest appeals of DF to me, and also the area the game still needs to grow in most IMHO, is the way stories and complex, (dys)functional things are randomly generated and can be interacted with in each world.

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Quote from: Loud Whispers link=topic=95349.0
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EveryZig

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #102 on: November 15, 2011, 05:48:37 pm »

I'd say that, for DF, my G:C:S ratio* is around 7:5:8.
The first time I looked at that I read it as Giant Cave Spider ratio.
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PlainTextMan

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #103 on: November 15, 2011, 05:59:52 pm »

I'd say that, for DF, my G:C:S ratio* is around 7:5:8.
The first time I looked at that I read it as Giant Cave Spider ratio.
LOL I thought "GCS" sounded familiar! How could I forget! This is an adequately awesome coincedence.
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Quote from: Loud Whispers link=topic=95349.0
5. You haz rage and you must punch things, but you haz no arms. Pray to ARMOK - Dwarf Mantra
This is an exceptional Post, well crafted with paragraphs and encrusted with attempted punctuation, bad non-native-English-speaker glitches. May exhibit great insight and/or stupidity.
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Capntastic

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Re: DF Talk: Playstyles and You
« Reply #104 on: November 18, 2011, 07:37:28 am »

Here is the followup to the overall playstyles premise writeup.  I hope this has been as much of an exciting learning experience for you all as it has been for me!
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