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[Mlamlah]

OH GUYS! I'M PRETTY SURE I KNOW WHAT'S IN THAT BOX.

When Foghorn's other daughter first saw us she thought we might be a bogeyman, why would she make that assumption?
We were talking with Foghorn some time ago, and as he dozed off he said that the local bogeyman havn't been seen in decades, that Phyrost claimed to have sealed them away in something.
We know Foghorn desperately want's the lockbox that we have, and it's clearly magical, not to mention extraordinarily heavy.
The mermaids wanted him dead for some reason, on orders of that god i believe, perhaps he slighted the night creatures.

Theory: inside is contained an extra-dimensional space, with all of the Local Bogeymen inside.

[Thecard]

OH GUYS! I'M PRETTY SURE I KNOW WHAT'S IN THAT BOX.

When Foghorn's other daughter first saw us she thought we might be a bogeyman, why would she make that assumption?
We were talking with Foghorn some time ago, and as he dozed off he said that the local bogeyman havn't been seen in decades, that Phyrost claimed to have sealed them away in something.
We know Foghorn desperately want's the lockbox that we have, and it's clearly magical, not to mention extraordinarily heavy.

Theory: inside is contained an extra-dimensional space, with all of the Local Bogeymen inside.

So... like Pandora's Box, but Phyros'?
Sweet.  Let's open that sucker up.

[Ukrainian Ranger]

You are saying that homosexuality comes on a fine spectrum.  It does not.  There is Gay, Bi, Straight, and Asexual. 

Yes, strictly gay would find sex with opposite gender disgusting.
But do you really think that all Bisexuals have equal preference  for both genders? Then in short:  lol

I tell you little secret,  many males that found homosexual sex disgusting often switch to males, when no females available (say prison) and then switch back when females become available

You are saying we should send her off to be raped for us

We are having a very different understanding of the word "rape". Rape = "forced sex", not "unpleasant sex". By your logic every prostitute is raped.  She will do that on her own free will. She will choose partners, time, place, pose, duration. If she thinks that joy of having a children outweighs short disgust from sex she will do it, else - we shouldn't convert her. That's why we need to tell her about this gift and then decide

I simply can't understand why you all don't want to talk with our friend and just assume that she will disagree.


We need an update

[GreatWyrmGold]

*yawns*

Not soon =/= Never

Not used gift = no benefit
used gift = benefits NOW
It's like cash, you need to invest it to make it useful... having it in your pockets will give you nothing good

On the other hand, keeping it in your pockets lets you invest it in something better later...and Alice plus the gifts we have now isn't a good investment.

Night trolls aren't humans, impregnation is not random. It's conscious act. I don't get all that buzz about homosexuality. Amount of children isn't dependent from pleasure... Nor from sex frequency. It's dependent on desire to have children. And we know nothing about Alice's views on childbirth.

So? If Alice views intercourse with males the way a heterosexual male would, give or take a bit, that's a lot less baby trolls. Heterosexual night troll means more children. Maybe not a lot more, but we aren't in a position to gamble on the lives of future night trolls...nor are we desperate enough that we need to convert whoever happens to be in our tower right now.

I never proposed to convert Alice without getting agreement first and explaining what her life is going to be. If she say - I don't want to have any children or It's so disgusting to be with man that I'll not do it even for childbirth or I don't care about your race... Fine. We unlucky and lost an opportunity. And should deal with problem how to not convert and not piss her father
But you  all want to pass an opportunity without even trying to... because she may be too lesbian to make babies.

Well, I still say that we should stick to our "No gift is appropriate" line until we, you know, have a gift that compliments Alice's ability instead of a cool gift that will probably be partly wasted on Alice.

I made a small list why Alice may accept that kind of life, no one cared to comment

Mind repeating it? Only list I remember had an extensive counter-analysis posted before I could.

It's remind me Gwen, when you, Wyrm, said something like "who needs random rancher's wife. Let's spend our valuable gift on some queen"

Indeed.
Difference: Gifts are less scarce than I thought they were. If Alices turn out not to be as scarce as they seem to be, I'll eat my avatar.
We have one, count her ONE Alice. I'm willing to bet that we'll only ever get one gift letting us make a female night troll, too. Let's not force two super-scarce resources into a suboptimal package. Wait until we have a better potential mate, and a better gift for Alice.

Sweet Azura, are we really still talking about this? This has been in debate for like 30 pages minimum, and nothing has changed, let's move on to something more constructive.

One change: The debate is now using a unique gift of exceptional power on Alice, who won't be able to use it to its full potential.

OH GUYS! I'M PRETTY SURE I KNOW WHAT'S IN THAT BOX.
When Foghorn's other daughter first saw us she thought we might be a bogeyman, why would she make that assumption?
We were talking with Foghorn some time ago, and as he dozed off he said that the local bogeyman havn't been seen in decades, that Phyrost claimed to have sealed them away in something.
We know Foghorn desperately want's the lockbox that we have, and it's clearly magical, not to mention extraordinarily heavy.
Theory: inside is contained an extra-dimensional space, with all of the Local Bogeymen inside.

So... like Pandora's Box, but Phyros'?
Sweet.  Let's open that sucker up.

Yeah, not like we weren't trying before we had a guess...
Of course, that assumes that Foghorn wants to release the bogeymen. Why would he do that? I'm guessing it's at least one magic item, probably more, which is even more reason to open it.

Still, if it was bogeymen...minions?

Ninja'd.

You are saying that homosexuality comes on a fine spectrum.  It does not.  There is Gay, Bi, Straight, and Asexual. 

Yes, strictly gay would find sex with opposite gender disgusting.
But do you really think that all Bisexuals have equal preference  for both genders? Then in short:  lol

I tell you little secret,  many males that found homosexual sex disgusting often switch to males, when no females available (say prison) and then switch back when females become available

Irrelevant, Alice is lesbian. Unless you suggest we lock her in a room with a man and a couple gifts after converting her?

You are saying we should send her off to be raped for us

We are having a very different understanding of the word "rape". Rape = "forced sex", not "unpleasant sex". By your logic every prostitute is raped.  She will do that on her own free will. She will choose partners, time, place, pose, duration. If she thinks that joy of having a children outweighs short disgust from sex she will do it, else - we shouldn't convert her. That's why we need to tell her about this gift and then decide

See below.

I simply can't understand why you all don't want to talk with our friend and just assume that she will disagree.
[/quote]
Well, once we have "the talk," we'll probably need to decide pretty soon if we're converting her then or never. That's my intuition speaking. Let's get a gift better-suited to Alice before considering it...especially since only one guuy is for giving her this gift as opposed to saving it for someone with a confirmed maternal instinct and a high probability of passing on good gifts to her kids.

We need an update

+1

[Ukrainian Ranger]

Pfff... That's tiring. No more min\maxing and real world ethics discussion from me.  Only ideas that would really come from a head of the character (As I see him, of cause) story deserves that

[Grek]

I recommend that Ukrainian Ranger be barred from voting due to an excessive requirement for KY jelly, an inability to stop talking about converting Alice and generally being disruptive. All in favour say 'Aye'.

[Thecard]

You are saying that homosexuality comes on a fine spectrum.  It does not.  There is Gay, Bi, Straight, and Asexual. 

Yes, strictly gay would find sex with opposite gender disgusting.
But do you really think that all Bisexuals have equal preference  for both genders? Then in short:  lol

All bisexuals?  She's lesbian, for crying out loud.  A lesbian is not a bisexual.  A bisexual is a lesbo as well as a hetero, but it doesn't work the other way around.  They're different.

I tell you little secret,  many males that found homosexual sex disgusting often switch to males, when no females available (say prison) and then switch back when females become available

UR, let me fill you in on a little secret: In prison, when those guys to homosexuality from heterosexuality, that's different.  You know why?  Because it's rape, and they never actually turned away from heterosexuality.  Because the one who initiates it is still in the man's position.  The other guy, unless he is consenting, is being raped.

You are saying we should send her off to be raped for us

We are having a very different understanding of the word "rape". Rape = "forced sex", not "unpleasant sex". By your logic every prostitute is raped.

Rape is unwanted sex.  It is as black and white as that.  Alice does not want to have sex with men.  That makes it rape.
I would not say rape is purely forced, sometimes women (or men, though it is rarer) are tricked into sex.  That's rape as well.
Also: yes, yes they are.  I do not believe prostitution should be legal because it is a form of rape.  If someone wants to be slutty, that's fine, that's how they want to be.  Prostitues are forced to do it because they need the money, and/or because their pimp makes them.  Do you think prostitutes aren't being raped?

[racnor]

I think the gift would probably do a good job of disconnecting someone from society on its own, seeing as it literally removes your soul.
As for the bogeymen, Why not hunt afar for a little while and talk to one. That would link up well with the idea of chasing down the necromancer before she gets too far away.

also, everyone is really flipping out way too much over this. It's getting annoying.

[Thecard]

Yeah, I don't mean to co-
Wait, no.  I've honestly been offended by his dismissal of the fact that transforming a lesbian girl into a horrific monster where her only purpose is to have sex with men is rape.
This time, I actually do mean to come off a little more than upset.

If that means I should leave so that we don't fill up this game with pages of arguments, I will go.  But I am deeply offended on several levels.

[Mlamlah]

I tell you little secret,  many males that found homosexual sex disgusting often switch to males, when no females available (say prison) and then switch back when females become available

If you did the research i have you would know this is part of gang culture, not just prison culture. In this instance it is *not* because of the sex, it is because of the power, the domination, historically victors in battle would also rape their defeated opponents, and that's entirely different. Now, i am going to ask you to stop talking about rape, if you do not i will not take anything you say seriously from this point forward, i will ignore your ideas, good or no. This is not an appropriate line of conversation i find to be enjoyable discourse, it has reached the point of gratuitousness, so please stop.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Pfff... That's tiring. No more min\maxing and real world ethics discussion from me.  Only ideas that would really come from a head of the character (As I see him, of cause) story deserves that

Our character isn't amoral.
Besides, locking a newly transformed Alice into a room with a man would probably ruin our relationship with her, making her a less valuable ally, and might not create a useful child...and if it did, it would probably resent us, leading to personal peril and waste of night troll lives. Pragmatic enough for ya?

I recommend that Ukrainian Ranger be barred from voting due to an excessive requirement for KY jelly, an inability to stop talking about converting Alice and generally being disruptive. All in favour say 'Aye'.

Aye.
Nothing personal, but when you're arguing that forcing a lesbian to engage in coitus with a male isn't rape, and imply that the PC should act amoral...bye.

[racnor]

Guys, drop it. All of you. Considering the nature of our main character, this was probably an inevitable argument, but we are now in a downward spiral that, if not averted, may well end in a dead game or the wrath of Ngusnogsted Obngot.

Now, any Ideas about tower defenses we might use in the future? we can't really do anything big if we can't endure the resulting retribution. I am in favor of using animal/plant empathy to make the surrounding life more loyal to us. we could have it be part of a routine: wake up, brush teeth, assert dominion over all we survey.

[Thecard]

I would love to drop it.  I hate arguments.
But I am completely genuine when I say he offended me on many different levels, secular and religious.  I cannot, in good conscience, just allow him to speak the way he does.

I know, this thread is made for enjoyment.  But what he has said, that is wrong in a deepest sense.  I will not contribute to anything he does.  I cannot do so and call myself a moral person.  Fun and enjoyment come after my values no matter where I am.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Throw in an argument about how his idea was stupid even on a pragmatic level, and I agree.
Anyways...

Now, any Ideas about tower defenses we might use in the future? we can't really do anything big if we can't endure the resulting retribution. I am in favor of using animal/plant empathy to make the surrounding life more loyal to us. we could have it be part of a routine: wake up, brush teeth, assert dominion over all we survey.

Magic.
Get the trees to warn us when attackers come, work on a sort of flame-turret thing...maybe research more into enchantments...yeah, research good. Let's get Foghorn to owe us a favor so he teaches us enchantment. Or ask Gwen, I guess. Or both--get a wider idea of the picture.
Until then, minions. Maybe see if Rox or whatever her name is can get us in touch with other tigerpeople.

[Weirdsound]

(Keep it civil. Disgusting is relative. If you keep it up I may just have to kill Alice off and not include diverse characters in my future b12 efforts. But don't worry. I'm not letting this die until I get bored or a higher power tells me to stop)

Character:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Name: the Male Night Troll "My father says I earn a name when people fear me enough to give me one."

Physical Traits:
Movement is Impaired in Left Arm. Grasping is Impaired in Left Hand. Right Leg Damaged; likely broken
Tattooed Arms "Prevents me from getting magic fatigued as easily, and even helps out a bit with casting. Also: Fashionable."
Springy Legs "I wish I could fly, but being able to jump like a flea and kick peoples ribs in is the next best thing."
Camouflaged Body "I can be invisible... at a glance or at a distance."
Hypnotic Gaze "I'm good at disabling a mortal's self preservation instinct... not so good at predicting his actions once I do."

Skills:
Eon Manipulation (+5) "Eon Manipulation is a family tradition. I hope to someday be as good as my father..."
Stealth (+4) "They can't escape what they can't see!"
Dark Manipulation (+2) "The night is my birthright and my greatest ally..."
Night Creature Empathy (+1) "Because it pays to be friends with other night dwellers."
Communication (+1) "Even for one as hideous as myself, a silver tongue goes a long way!"

Inventory:
A cursed bracelet of plant reading [+1 when listening to plants] (Worn, right arm, boosts Plant Empathy in some situations)
Scorchedjade, An Artifact Rose Quartz Spear [Unknown Enchantment(s)] (Wielded, right hand)
Steel Buckler (Wielded, left arm)
An Elf-Tooth Charm Necklace of Healing (Worn)
Alchemist's Work Outfit [Shirt, Apron, Pants] (Worn)
-A Soul Catcher Necklace (Worn)
-6 Handfuls of Beach Sand (In pocket)
-1 Handheld mirror (In pocket)
-2 Large Rubies (In Pocket)
-2 Platinum Ingots (In Pockets, Straining Garmet)
-1 Human Brain of Phyros [Magically Preserved] (In pocket)
-1 Small Sack of Grey Powder Labeled 'Phoenix Ash' (In Pocket)
-1 Small Sack of Assorted Dragon Bits [Small Bones, Scales, Teeth, Ect] (In Pocket)
-1 Small Sack Labeled 'Warning: Gunpowder' (In Pocket)
-1 Book Titled 'Intro to the Inferno: The Scourge's Guide to Flame Manipulation' (In Pocket)
-1 Book Titled 'The Devil's Cookbook: Alchemy for Those Lacking in Moral Fiber' (In Pocket)
Thick Belt (Worn)
-1 Large Knife (Sheathed, Hanging from Belt)
-1 Saber (Sheathed, Hanging from Belt)
"Shit. Now I need to kill another human for Alchemy components. Wonderful..."

Perks:
Magic Perks
Budding Animal Empath: You will gain the animal empathy skill if you succeed in 1 animal empathy actions, or successfully study it in a book
Budding Plant Empath: You will gain the plant empathy skill if you succeed in 2 plant empathy actions, or successfully study it in a book.
Improving Communicator: Your Communication skill will increase if you succeed in 1 communication actions, or train extensively under a superior communicator.
Time Displacement Specialist: Take a +1 to any attempt to send something foward in time.
Budding Fire Manipulator: You will gain the fire manipulation skill if you succeed in 2 fire manipulation actions or train with somebody who has it
Aspiring Water Manipulator: You will gain the water manipulation skill if you succeed in 6 water manipulation actions, or train extensively with somebody who has it
Aspiring Swordsman: You will gain the Armed Combat [Swords] skill if you succeed in 6 sword combat actions, or train extensively with somebody who has it
Fire Manipulation Utility Theory: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using non-destructive fire magic
Fire Manipulation Combat Theory: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using fire magic to destroy, kill, or maim
Bug Speaker: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using animal empathy on bugs
Bird Speaker: You do not suffer an untrained skill penalty for using animal empathy on birds
Youth Speaker: Take a +1 to any attempt to communicate with a mortal who is under 30 (Or equivilant to being under 30 for non humans)

Reproductive Perks
Mature: You are physically and mentally capable of converting and impregnating mates. To do so you must spend a "Gift" perk. "Gift" perks can be gained by rolling very high, learning new skills, or through other supernatural means. If you create a child it may be born with some traits of it's mother in addition to whatever gift you use to conceive it.
First Gift: Can be spent to convert or impregnate a mate. The night troll created will have your four physical features. Gifts that grant more than two traits are rare, so this may be worth saving for somebody special. Bun in the Oven
Gift of Puppetry: Can be spent to convert or impregnate a mate. The night troll created will be bound to follow your commands for as long as you both live. You will be made aware of any major changes to your puppet's health or location.
Gift of Hideousness: Can be spent to convert or impregnate a mate. The night troll created will appear so unatural and ugly that it will almost always elicit a powerful emotional response (typically fear, disgust, or anger) in any mortal who lays eyes on it.
Gift of Withering Touch: Can be spent to convert or impregnate a mate. The night troll created will have the ability to cause mortal beings to age upon physical contact. Humans can be brought from infancy to natural death in about 30 minutes. Dwarves take about three times that much. Elves and Goblins can be aged to phyiscal maturity, but not beyond that point.

Recipes:
Drought of Perception Blotting: Causes the drinker to become invisible to members of a single sentient race unless the drinker tries to get their attention or is pointed out to them.
-1 Brain of the Race you wish to be not noticed by
-1 Fistfull of ash from burned oak
-1 1 Large Mug of digestive juices from a mammal

Other Party Members:
Gwendolyn, the Night Troll Consort (Healthy, Unfamiliar with her own body, Pregnant 0/?? Fear for Baby)
-Loincloth
-Oak Sword (Enchanted)
-Willow Sword (Enchanted)
-Steel Mace
-Steel Mace
Alice, the 16 Year Old Human Woodsman (Healthy)
-Rope Reed Fiber Shirt
-Whale Leather Armor [Helm, Vest, Leggings, Boots, Gloves]
-Steel Combat Knife
-Steel Workman's Ax
-Rubber Wood Bow
-Human Leather Quiver [50 Steel Arrows]
-Coin Purse [33 Dwanmaiden Silver Coin, 3 Foghorn the Vile Aluminum Doubloons]

Before leaving you decide to give the box one more try. Again it fails to open. 1d20 = 12 - 3(Untrained Skill) - 2(Damaged Lock) = 7

You decide to leave the mermaid at home, and take the combat capable women out hunting in Everpine. The trip to the hick settlement is a bit uneasy, but you manage to keep Alice and Gwendolyn from trying to kill each other along the way. Eventually you arrive at the edge of Everpine without incident.

The retreat seems fairly well guarded tonight. Perhaps the night troll rumors stared by the trees have finally made them tighten their defenses.

Your companions quickly begin to bicker as to how the the raid should be carried out.

"I propose a two pronged attack. You take the mortal and cause a big ruckus, and I'll slip in and grab some prisoners." Gwendolyn offers.

Alice sneers. "You are too tall, ugly, and freakish to slip into a Night Troll gathering untoiced! The people of Everpine dislike humans, especially members of my family. All I have to do is snipe a guard and show my face, and I can lead half the defenders on a wild goose chase! Boss can slip in, and you can just sit tight and stay out of our way Gwen!"

The consort cuffs the human on the shoulder. "I know this town. I've lived in and around it for longer than you have been alive. Don't tell me what will and will not work here! I could snatch some children from a residential tree or bachelors from the bachelor tree and be gone before anybody notice, assuming I have a proper distraction. Just charge in and help my beloved make one for me. Perhaps you can do us all a favor and take an arrow for him!"

-I should probably come up with something of my own or take a side before their damn bickering blows our cover...-