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Author Topic: Terrible Suggestions Thread  (Read 490172 times)

Starver

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4215 on: February 11, 2022, 04:52:53 pm »

All seasonal soundtracks are performed by Rick Astley.

(Inspired by recent events...)
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Nordlicht

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4216 on: February 11, 2022, 05:13:24 pm »

Forget about the new seasonal soundtracks in the Steam release; procedurally generate the new music tracks, which will be played with a random set of instruments, in random styles, that were generated in the world being played. I'm sure it'll all come together and sound fine.


Would something like this be doable? Are the descriptions detailed enough? What beside a Synthesizer would one need?
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Mr Crabman

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4217 on: February 11, 2022, 05:42:35 pm »

Would something like this be doable? Are the descriptions detailed enough? What beside a Synthesizer would one need?

Well, supposedly it has been done, but sounds weird (as expected):

Someone did something like that and posted it to reddit. Their conclusion was 'is possible for music, will sound a bit weird to a lot of people without a composer sanding off the rough edges'.

I couldn't find the reddit post therahedwig was talking about though, so I can't confirm for sure.

Shdorsh

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4218 on: February 11, 2022, 06:16:52 pm »

Forget about the new seasonal soundtracks in the Steam release; procedurally generate the new music tracks, which will be played with a random set of instruments, in random styles, that were generated in the world being played. I'm sure it'll all come together and sound fine.


Would something like this be doable? Are the descriptions detailed enough? What beside a Synthesizer would one need?

I am pretty sure it is. I wanted to script a procedural music generator for a long time, problem being finding an easy way to convert text strings to midi files. Basically, how I imagine things going:

Your civilization would spawn with a number of scales with whole tones, choosing from 5 notes (a pentatonic scale) to 7, then randomly turning some flat or sharp and picking one of the notes as its starting point. At the same time, if you want to go all crazy, why not randomize time signature as well, making binary (2/2, 4/4, 8/8 etc.) and ternary (3/8, 6/8, 9/8, waltz-like sounding) or even weirder stuff possible.

Then, you need to generate multiple tracks for multiple instruments and for each rhythm instrument, you generate a small section of its track, which can be repeated: You'd let the code pick between a variation of algorithms:
  • Chords: Just strike a chord of 3 notes on that scale after another. You would need to lower the chance to actually pick a note that is right next to the one that was just picked, because on larger scales, you might get dissonant sounding half-tones. Also, sometimes repeat and halve the duration of that particular chord being played. Should contain somewhere between 1-2 chords per measure.
  • Arpeggio: Take the chord and play it note note by note in a randomized fashion, 1-3-5-3 or 1-3-5, or 1-5-3-5 etc., then move onto the next.
  • Keeping the same base note: You fill up the generated rhythm with the same note, then switch out a few of them, going like 1-1-5-1-1-4-1-1-3-4-3-2 or something.
Putting a few blocks together, you have your verse/bridge/chorus.

Generate a different section for chorus with the same time measure and scale or even switch scale *slightly*, starting off from a higher note etc. The human mind is wired to like repetition, so re-using the same rhythm might lead to more favorable, though less complex music.

The lead instrument will have a completely alternate, more varied rhythm, so you generate your rhythm section for a whole verse/bridge/chorus. The way it will generate which note to play is that it looks at the lowest note of the current measure's chord and the next one, plays (or has an exceedingly high probability to play) the current one or an entire octave above or below (same note, just a whole range higher or lower). The next chord's lowest note will be stored in a variable as the "goal", to which the melody strives to get, having a higher probability to move closer to it. You could also make it go and try to pick any of the other notes of that chord as goal note, with a smaller chance of course. Also, have a random chance to remove that goal note from the rhythm section's chord, because why not.

Then, convert the whole thing into midi and dread at what monstrosity your dwarves like to listen to. Each combination of rhythm and scale would be a different style, I guess.

I did some music lessons when I was way younger, for 5 years about 15 years ago or so, so I guess asking Rick Beato would be the right thing to do. It would be awesome as an idea, yet probably exceedingly CPU intensive.

Edit: Also, tempo should matter too, being defined by style and changing the rhythm algorithm. You might want to have a chance of holding notes longer after an arpeggio or at the end of the time measure for making it sound more peaceful. A way to make the weird time signatures sound better would be to keep in mind breaking them down, like 7/4 = 4/4 + 3/4, practically generating 4/4 measures and a 3/4 measures within a block alternately.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2022, 08:07:49 pm by Shdorsh »
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Shdorsh

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4219 on: February 11, 2022, 06:23:21 pm »

Would something like this be doable? Are the descriptions detailed enough? What beside a Synthesizer would one need?

Well, supposedly it has been done, but sounds weird (as expected):

Someone did something like that and posted it to reddit. Their conclusion was 'is possible for music, will sound a bit weird to a lot of people without a composer sanding off the rough edges'.

I couldn't find the reddit post therahedwig was talking about though, so I can't confirm for sure.

It was done using artificial neural networks, using programs that basically simulate braincells' capacity to learn and create something similar. I believe much of the less good sounding quality stems from it not knowing actual music theory, merely trying to create a copy of all kinds of patterns it has seen. More rigorous sticking to music theory might actually see the creation of procedural music that sounds better and doesn't require the initial learning phase. Granted, it will be maybe more limited in what it creates, though, but if the limited part is, well... questionable to the ears, nothing of value would be lost I guess?

The vids you were referring to I think might be the ones of carykh.
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King Zultan

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4220 on: February 12, 2022, 03:36:36 am »

Why not just play all the music tracks at the same time all the time without a way to turn it off, even going as far to bypass the computer's volume controls so no matter what you do you can't mute it.
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brewer bob

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4221 on: February 12, 2022, 05:52:10 am »

As the procedurally generated music tends to sound weird, Bay12 decides to hire a load of composers to "sand off the edges" and make the music more accessible. This slows down world generation considerably, as the unrefined procedural music is sent via the internet to the Bay12 Music Development Company's facilities (basically a sweatshop), where composers work round the clock with a minimal wage to finalize the tracks and then send them back to the player's computer.

Mr Crabman

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4222 on: February 15, 2022, 03:10:49 pm »

Seasonal autosaves just aren't enough; make daily autosaves, and make them the only option (to prevent save-scumming).

Mobbstar

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4223 on: February 15, 2022, 03:12:49 pm »

To properly secure back-ups, also copy the back-up to any connected external storage media, as well as any available cloud services.  For consistency, the game must not continue until all the back-ups have been distributed.

Starver

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4224 on: February 15, 2022, 03:49:23 pm »

Enforced multiplay.

You can only load the very latest cloud-saved autosave. From whomever it was who last saved one.
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PlumpHelmetMan

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4225 on: February 15, 2022, 07:16:31 pm »

Remove moddable raws from the Steam release and replace them with Spore-style customization features for new creatures and objects, which work by just mix-and-matching options from a predetermined set of vanilla sprite parts. Want to mod in a creature from your favourite video game RPG? Too bad! But here, you can go right ahead and create a cat with a goblin's head and siege engine parts mounted to its shoulders. That's close enough, right?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2022, 07:21:20 pm by PlumpHelmetMan »
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King Zultan

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4226 on: February 16, 2022, 01:49:03 am »

Having options in the game makes it to where you can't experience the game the way Toady wanted it to be played so in the next version they will all be removed.
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The Lawyer opens a briefcase. It's full of lemons, the justice fruit only lawyers may touch.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4227 on: February 16, 2022, 02:51:45 am »

The entire game is on rails.
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Eric Blank

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4228 on: February 16, 2022, 06:16:32 pm »

The game requires purchase and use of a tiny electric minecart track on your desk to process ticks. If the minecart gets jammed and can't make the circuit the game doesn't move forward until it physically passes the start rail again. If it breaks down you have to grab it and roll it across the start rail like a toy car.

If Toady does merch he absolutely must make a little electric minecart repeater that just goes back and forth or in circles all day
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hedgerow

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Re: Terrible Suggestions Thread
« Reply #4229 on: February 16, 2022, 08:07:41 pm »

Can Dwarves celebrate Valentine's Day?

Like, can the 16th of every Granite be like, Valentine's Day for Dwarves?

I mean, Cupid was a cherub and a cherub is kind of a dwarf.

Kind of.
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