Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2014, 10:34:50 am
Hello, and welcome to my first attempt at running a Mafia game.
Spoiler: Standard Rules of Mafia (click to show/hide)
This game is a normal Mafia game with the exception of three players are third party players with no interest in the main portion of the game.
This game has 13 players, of which 7 are Union soldiers, 3 are Confederate Saboteurs, and 3 are third parties.
Union Players are Town and win when all Confederates are dead. The lynch vote is the town's main weapon against third parties. The town get one power role in the form of the Union General, who can inspect a player at night to determine whether they are Union or Confederate.
Confederate Players are Mafia/Scum and win when all the Union players are dead. The Confederates have access to a quicktopic and have a Night Kill. The Confederates also have one player with an inspect ability, the Confederate General.
The Third Parties:
The Good: This player wins by keeping himself and the Ugly alive until the end of the game or until the Bad dies. The Good knows who the Ugly is and has a one-shot Nightkill. The Good comes up as Confederate to inspects
The Bad: The Bad wins by keeping himself alive until the game ends or the Good and the Ugly are dead. The Bad has a Nightkill. The Bad is essentially an SK with an additional goal. The Bad comes up as Union to inspects.
The Ugly: The Ugly wins by keeping himself and the Good alive until either the Bad dies or the game ends. The Ugly knows the identity of the Good. If the Confederates attempt to kill the Ugly, the kill will backfire and kill the one performing the kill. The Ugly also will survive the first time he is lynched, but his identity will be revealed. The Ugly comes up as Confederate to inspects.
When a third party wins or loses, and are still alive, they remain in the game, but with the Union win condition.
Players:
4maskwolf
Mastahcheese
notquitethere
Superblackcat
MyOwnWorstEnemy
Deathsword
Replacements:
Urist Imiknorris
TolyK
Deathsword replaced +!!scientist!!+ (inactivity)
Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2014, 10:37:25 am
Post by: zombie urist on February 11, 2014, 03:18:47 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2014, 04:51:39 pm
Isn't 7 Union to 3 Confederate unbalanced?Well there's always the possibility the Confederates Nightkill a third party by accident, and the third parties probably want to look town so they can stay alive. So if you're saying I should drop a confederate, I'm not completely convinced.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 11, 2014, 04:53:28 pm
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 11, 2014, 04:54:38 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on February 11, 2014, 06:59:54 pm
In.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 11, 2014, 07:52:29 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on February 11, 2014, 08:08:16 pm
If a third party wins, do they leave the game?
Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2014, 08:12:21 pm
Replacement list.Yes.
If a third party wins, do they leave the game?
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on February 11, 2014, 08:33:26 pm
Pretend the Bad is lynched D1.
You now enter N1 with 7 town, 3 scum. If the scum kill at all (which they will), then D2 starts with 6 town, 3 scum, at which point town can only afford to mislynch once.
Post by: zombie urist on February 11, 2014, 08:39:43 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2014, 08:45:48 pm
Worst case scenario time:Good point. Should I change it so that third parties stay in the game and pursue a town wincon or just with survivor wincon?
Pretend the Bad is lynched D1.
You now enter N1 with 7 town, 3 scum. If the scum kill at all (which they will), then D2 starts with 6 town, 3 scum, at which point town can only afford to mislynch once.
The problem is that all three of the Good, Bad, and Ugly can win with the confederates. So if a Union is lynched D1, then the game enters night with 6 union to 3 confederates + good + bad + ugly. The good, bad, and ugly can all side with the confederates.True, but the good and the ugly want to kill the bad and vice versa, so they may not want to reveal their identities. You also have a good point. If I switch the number of Confederates to 2, do you think that will be balanced?
Post by: mastahcheese on February 11, 2014, 08:49:05 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 11, 2014, 08:53:37 pm
I would think so, yes.Worst case scenario time:Good point. Should I change it so that third parties stay in the game and pursue a town wincon or just with survivor wincon?
Pretend the Bad is lynched D1.
You now enter N1 with 7 town, 3 scum. If the scum kill at all (which they will), then D2 starts with 6 town, 3 scum, at which point town can only afford to mislynch once.The problem is that all three of the Good, Bad, and Ugly can win with the confederates. So if a Union is lynched D1, then the game enters night with 6 union to 3 confederates + good + bad + ugly. The good, bad, and ugly can all side with the confederates.True, but the good and the ugly want to kill the bad and vice versa, so they may not want to reveal their identities. You also have a good point. If I switch the number of Confederates to 2, do you think that will be balanced?
Post by: Toaster on February 11, 2014, 09:48:20 pm
Replacement list.Yes.
If a third party wins, do they leave the game?
If a third party loses, do they leave the game? (See: The Ugly if the Good is killed.)
Post by: notquitethere on February 12, 2014, 05:27:02 am
Post by: Caz on February 12, 2014, 03:49:54 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on February 12, 2014, 10:15:30 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 12, 2014, 10:26:22 pm
In if spaces left.
We're at 7 of 13 spots filled right now.
Post by: Persus13 on February 13, 2014, 11:25:33 am
No, they continue playing with the town win condition. That way the Bad still needs to win, and the living player is still able to play.Replacement list.Yes.
If a third party wins, do they leave the game?
If a third party loses, do they leave the game? (See: The Ugly if the Good is killed.)
Post by: notquitethere on February 13, 2014, 05:53:18 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 13, 2014, 06:10:03 pm
In preparation, to get all of you in the mood, I've made a The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly youtube playlist (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnvoeKa8s27895pzX85HX_hl5ioXOxdGZ). Select a track, hit shuffle and prepare to feel epic. I ensure that this will help your decision making.I fully intend to link to a youtube video of ecstasy of gold in the case of a third party win.
Post by: Teneb on February 14, 2014, 11:27:51 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 14, 2014, 07:04:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 14, 2014, 07:08:17 pm
If you accept first time mafia players, count me in.I'd recommend joining the next Beginner's Mafia as well, whenever it starts, or you may find yourself slightly confused about certain stuff.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 14, 2014, 10:56:31 pm
But yeah, you may want to wait for the next BM, first. The current one should be ending once Tiruin gets back.
Post by: Solymr on February 15, 2014, 07:27:18 am
Post by: Silthuri on February 16, 2014, 04:41:17 am
Post by: notquitethere on February 16, 2014, 05:05:42 am
Post by: Solymr on February 16, 2014, 08:56:10 am
Does the Bad and the Good get a nightkill everytime or just once?
Post by: notquitethere on February 16, 2014, 09:59:24 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 16, 2014, 10:42:28 am
Post by: Tiruin on February 16, 2014, 05:53:21 pm
<_<
...
...In?
Post by: Persus13 on February 16, 2014, 08:04:12 pm
I have actually read the mafia rules, but I haven't played an actual game yet.I recommend you read a few Mafia games. That's how I really learned how Mafia worked. The notable games Archive is a good place to start, or maybe looking at one of the current finished games.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 16, 2014, 08:30:06 pm
I have actually read the mafia rules, but I haven't played an actual game yet.I recommend you read a few Mafia games. That's how I really learned how Mafia worked. The notable games Archive is a good place to start, or maybe looking at one of the current finished games.
I learned to play mafia from my own mistakes without reading any other games, but I don't really recommend that, since people start to get very annoyed with you after a bit for generally doing badly. It does still take some hands-on experience (preferably getting both scum and town experience early) to get good at it, though,
Post by: Tiruin on February 17, 2014, 12:28:09 am
First of all, I vouch for all those newbies wishing to enter.
Second of all, to all those newbies: I recommend you to firstly and foremostly, look at how your playstyle and method of communication works--think of a debate situation, how are you able to communicate your ideas and analyze other's statements?
What was suggested above is, and I say it from my own perspective, subjective per person-how they see and conclude based on analysis. Personal learning methods and all that.
Noted, what we say is 'recommended' or such, not that it is enforced. :)
I learned to play mafia from my own mistakes without reading any other games, but I don't really recommend that, since people start to get very annoyed with you after a bit for generally doing badly. It does still take some hands-on experience (preferably getting both scum and town experience early) to get good at it, though,...To be frank, you didn't do well in how your statements matched up before. :P They...were accusations, yes, but they were specific points directed at general posts. It's like, you have a basis and are saying it from that basis, but we don't see that basis...
But all these are to their own opinion and must be taken as a whole.
C'mon newbies. Bring it! :I
Post by: Persus13 on February 17, 2014, 07:22:13 am
Post by: Tiruin on February 17, 2014, 07:57:55 am
>_>Maaaaaybe?
<_<
...
...In?
Yes.
Post by: TolyK on February 18, 2014, 10:17:00 am
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2014, 11:05:44 am
Post by: Solymr on February 18, 2014, 11:10:55 am
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2014, 11:41:58 am
If we play with one fewer confederate and two few union soldiers, we could get this game started now: two of the third party are pseudo-town anyway (they want to kill the serial killer and they become town if one of them dies, both of which is pro-town). No?Let's put this to a vote.
All those in favor of starting with 10 players?
Yes- NQT, 4maskwolf
No-
Don't Care-
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 18, 2014, 11:42:59 am
Post by: TolyK on February 18, 2014, 12:15:17 pm
Just a note though - I'm currently invested in a game, and I REALLY wouldn't have time for 2 of them, so I wouldn't play if it started right now with me inside.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 18, 2014, 12:22:03 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 18, 2014, 12:35:47 pm
Post by: Silthuri on February 18, 2014, 02:09:17 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2014, 04:54:57 pm
Damn my inconspicuous nature. :P You missed me, Persus.I have no idea what you are talking about. ;)
11 players
6 town
2 scum
3 third parties
Sound good for everyone?
Post by: notquitethere on February 18, 2014, 05:51:58 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 18, 2014, 06:53:57 pm
Post by: Silthuri on February 18, 2014, 07:03:45 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 18, 2014, 07:09:11 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2014, 07:10:32 pm
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on February 18, 2014, 08:10:44 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on February 18, 2014, 10:17:28 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 19, 2014, 06:01:44 am
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2014, 10:16:44 am
Post by: Solymr on February 19, 2014, 10:28:26 am
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2014, 09:45:31 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2014, 10:57:32 pm
On the outskirts of a Union encampment, 12 men stood in a circle. Surrounding them was a squad of Union riflemen, rifles aimed at the men in the circle. Behind them, an officer sat on his horse and began to speak.
“We know that several Confederate Saboteurs infiltrated their way into this camp in the past few weeks, and the only men who joined our ranks during that time was you lot. If this were up to some of the other officers, they’d shoot you all, or torture you. But I heard about a method that was successful in a little town called Aifam in Texas. Each day, the 11 of you are going to choose someone to string up out here. Each night you all will return to tents we’ve set up outside the camp. Guards will surround you tents and ensure no one gets in or out. You may begin.”
Day 1 has begun, and will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST.
4maskwolf-
Imperial Guardsman-
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109-
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-
Not Voting-Everyone
0 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Once again, Day 1 will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 19, 2014, 11:10:18 pm
NQT: You have a great piece of information you want to share with the town, something that could tip the scales in the town's favor, but you are afraid that the mafia might mislead the town if you reveal this information and make the town lose. What do you do?
TDS: You are a confederate, and you have two votes to lynch on you towards the end of day one. There are a few people with one vote each on them. Do you attempt to reason your way out of a lynch or just vote for someone else and hope they get lynched instead?
Imperial: You are the Union General and have discovered the identity of what you believe is a confederate. Do you attempt to get them lynched or wait and see, as they could be the good or the ugly.
MastahCheese: You are a generic union soldier, but have a strong suspicion that another player is a confederate. however, nobody else agrees with you. What do you do?
Caz: As the bad, you claimed union general and tried to get another player you thought was the good lynched. When the player was revealed as non-confederate by the lynch, you are caught in your bluff. What do you do?
SBC: You are the good and see that the ugly is in danger of being lynched by a claimed union general. What do you do?
DP109: As a new player, welcome. What do you expect from your first game of mafia?
Solymr: Same as for DP, welcome. Same question, too.
Tiruin: You are the ugly, and are suspected as a confederate. How do you diffuse suspicion?
MOWE: You are the confederate general, and have discovered the identity of the good. Do you claim union general and try to get them lynched, as they would have revealed confederate to the general, and hope that the counterclaim will give you a clear target?
+!!scientist!!+: What do you think is the best strategy for the bad in this game?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 19, 2014, 11:23:17 pm
NQT: thanks for the playlist, by the way
+!!scientist!!+: Actually, I've got a better question: You are the bad, and one of the players seems to be an obvious confederate to you. For lack of a better target, do you kill him, or do you kill a random other person.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 19, 2014, 11:28:00 pm
4maskwolf: If you were one of the third parties, would you support the Union or the Confederate side (having your wincon as a priority, of course)?
Imperial Guardsman: If you were the Union general, at what point would you reveal your role?
Mastahcheese: If you were a Confederate, would you go for a third party who was supporting the town or a normal townsperson first?
NQT: If you were the Ugly, when would you reveal what you are?
Caz: If you were the Bad and you had identified the Ugly, would you kill him immediately or wait to see who the Good is?
SBC: Would you consider it a waste of time to figure out who the Good and the Ugly are?
That's all I can think of for now, short of the semi-useless "What is your favorite color?" type questions, especially since it's really late right now.
PPE: 4maskwolf: It depends. If there's a good change that I'll be lynched, I'll probably make some "mistakes" like supporting a guy who seems scummy but isn't. I'd also try to argue against the other people in my team. If I might be able to survive, I'd cause some confusion by pointing out a problem with someone else. As long as the votecount changed by one, I'd be able to ensure that I survived.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 19, 2014, 11:30:22 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on February 19, 2014, 11:50:10 pm
MastahCheese: You are a generic union soldier, but have a strong suspicion that another player is a confederate. however, nobody else agrees with you. What do you do?Hmm, it would depend on how far in the game it was. First off, though, I'd look back and see if they made any discrepancies that I could point out, and generally just try my best to form a case against them that people would realize.
To give a question in kind: You are the Good. Someone, about to get lynched, has just claimed Union General in an attempt to clear another player as Union before they go down, but you've built up some strong suspicion about the one they're trying to clear. Do you assume them to be the Bad? How do you proceed, and why?
Imperial Guardsman: You are a generic Union trooper. Someone is pressing a case against you, but the points they are making aren't really adding up, but nobody seems to notice. What do you do, and why?
TheDarkStar
Mastahcheese: If you were a Confederate, would you go for a third party who was supporting the town or a normal townsperson first?Well, if the third party was the Good, then getting rid of them would likely be best, as they have their own kill, but to target the Ugly would get a Confederate killed instead, so I think that the safer bet would be to go after normal Union troops instead, and try to get the Ugly lynched so the Bad could kill them.
And a Question for you: You are the Union General, and after having some serious speculation about them, you inspect them, and they show as Union. Some other people are pressing on them. What do you do, and why?
notquitethere: Someone has been lurking, and a couple other players have been going after them repeatedly. What's your take on the situation, and why?
Caz: You're a Confederate spy, and your scum buddy is getting attacked after someone claiming Union General has inspected them. How do you proceed, and why?
Superblackcat: You're a Union Soldier, and someone has just claimed to be the Union General, and said that another player is a Confederate. What do you do, and why?
Darkpaladin109: You're the Confederate General, and you've located the Union General in the night. How do you proceed, and why?
Solymr: You're the Ugly, and someone claiming to be the Union General is accusing who you know to be the Good. What do you do, and why?
Tiruin: You're the Bad, and the Good is dead. Someone claims Union General, and says that another person is a Confederate, but they don't get lynched by making the argument that they are the Ugly. Instead, the person claiming Union General gets lynched, and is proven to have told the truth. What do you do, and why?
MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?
+!!scientist!!+: You are a Union Soldier, and the Good has been killed in the night, along with the Union General. Nobody really made any cases against them, and neither were particularly effective at scumhunting. What do you do now, and why?
No Lynch: Oh wait, this isn't a player.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 19, 2014, 11:53:53 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on February 20, 2014, 12:58:57 am
Quote
SBC: You are the good and see that the ugly is in danger of being lynched by a claimed union general. What do you do
Let him get lynched, He won't die, due to his lynch protection. he'll just out as Ugly.
This way, I won't be found and the Bad can't kill me.
Quote
SBC: Would you consider it a waste of time to figure out who the Good and the Ugly are?
I think that it depends on the role of the person. I think it's worthless to do as town right now, and I think that Good/Ugly will reveal themselves at some point. Probably with claims. I'm still confused.. Does the Wincon change for the third parties when they fail/complete their third party wincons?
Quote
Superblackcat: You're a Union Soldier, and someone has just claimed to be the Union General, and said that another player is a Confederate. What do you do, and why?
I would tell everyone to explicitly state that they are NOT the union general, and then proceed to lynch the confederate if this happens.
If someone says they are the union general. I would still lynch the confederate. If it is a confederate I take the first outted union general as true with a grain of salt (Possible buss) and lynch the second Union General.
Sorry, I don't have time to post questions
Post by: Solymr on February 20, 2014, 03:09:54 am
I was expecting people to start random votes but questions work too :P
mastah:
If the Bad is alive, as a last resort I could incriminate myself to get lynched. Even if I woulf be outed and the Bad would try to kill me, the Good still has a shot at it.
If the Bad is dead, then I would claim the Good and that I know the other guy's the Ugly. If it works out then scum would want to kill me and the General, and if they try to kill me it would backfire.
All of this assuming no one counterclaims.
One more question: if the Good nks the Bad and the Bad tries to nk the Ugly at the same night, what happens?
Post by: notquitethere on February 20, 2014, 05:25:42 am
OK. Time to embrace old west action... I've played games with some of you before, but there looks to be quite a new crowd. The aim of today is obviously to lynch someone, but also to ensure we get the most information for future days. I want each of you then to have a justifiable reason for your lynch vote today. If you can't explain yourself, you're giving everyone else the rope to hang you with.
For those of you that don't know, I'm the resident Mafia Psephologist (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psephology). I have so much faith in my methods, that even when I'm scum I'll willingly out my fellow scum using my metrics (see the last BYOR, for instance, or even way back with Mafia and Masons). Basically, I'll be keeping close track of what people do in terms of votes and claimed actions, as well as what they say. Some people (Tiruin) don't like this approach because pointing to the data and saying it makes someone looks scummy doesn't give people much to respond to. Is it unfair on the murder suspect to point to their grubby fingerprints on the murder weapon? If some of you young guns want to join me in my analytical questing, whip up a spreadsheet and start keeping track of each player's interactions with each other player.
A thing to bear in mind: we've got third parties in this game. Third parties don't stick their neck out for nobody, while both town and scum have an incentive to try to avoid at least some players being lynched for bad reasons. So I want all of you (well, all us unionists at any rate) to pay attention to lurkers and players going along with weak cases and, especially, lurkers with weak cases.
Alright, enough yabbering, let's hang 'em high.
Cheese
notquitethere: Someone has been lurking, and a couple other players have been going after them repeatedly. What's your take on the situation, and why?Well, lurking is a crime against the game. Sometimes though, a player will say in advance that they can't be around as much and it's okay to cut them a bit of slack. I guess in this situation, I'd look to see whether the players are solely focusing on lurkers. This can be a sign of scum trying to appear proactive by go after people that won't chat back. Low hanging fruit and all that. Do you disagree? Are you planning to lurk?
Wolf
NQT: You have a great piece of information you want to share with the town, something that could tip the scales in the town's favor, but you are afraid that the mafia might mislead the town if you reveal this information and make the town lose. What do you do?It depends how I feel about the other players. In a typical game you'll have a bunch of players that are engaged, some lurkers and some players that are posting but not really paying attention. If I've got good accord with the other players and I feel I can explain thinks more cogently than scum, and most people are at least moderately attentive, then I'll say. Elsewise I might keep my mouth shut (at least until some of the more untrustworthy folk are dead). What's your take on the situation?
NQT: thanks for the playlist, by the wayMy pleasure. I'm listening to it right now.
DarkStar
NQT: If you were the Ugly, when would you reveal what you are?There's only very specific situations in which the Ugly should claim. If the Good is still alive, they don't want to claim even if if looks like they're about to be lynched as the Bad will just kill them come night time. If the Good is dead and they're playing effectively as town, they don't want to claim because they want to maximise the chance that the Confederates will target them at night. However, in LYLO they should claim if they're about to be lynched (and have prepared evidence throughout the game in favour of this claim) because if they allow themselves to be mislynched at LYLO then they'll lose town the game.
Solymr, Darkpaladin109
Do you think you have a sound grasp on the rules?
One more question: if the Good nks the Bad and the Bad tries to nk the Ugly at the same night, what happens?I assume they both die.
Can we get confirmation of this Persus?
Tiruin — What's a good reason to lynch somebody today?
MyOwnWorstEnemy — What's a particularly telling scumtell in your eyes?
+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?
Caz — Do you think it's important to think about the possible ramifications of what you say before you post?
Imperial Guardsman — Which is more suspicious: active-lurking or not voting?
Superblackcat —Do you think it's necessary to engage with everyone in the first day or do you think focusing on just a handful of players is enough?
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 20, 2014, 07:01:51 am
Imperial Guardsman: If you were the Union general, at what point would you reveal your role?If I were a Cop, I would out when I have an incriminating result on a scummy looking person.
Imperial Guardsman — Which is more suspicious: active-lurking or not voting?
Imperial Guardsman: You are a generic Union trooper. Someone is pressing a case against you, but the points they are making aren't really adding up, but nobody seems to notice. What do you do, and why?
Imperial Guardsman: You are the Union General and have discovered the identity of what you believe is a confederate. Do you attempt to get them lynched or wait and see, as they could be the good or the ugly.
And, from personal experience, active lurking is more suspicious.
If I were being pressed with a case with absurd points, I would CALL IT OUT.
Finally, if they were possibly Good or Ugly, I would wait. But if I see something that is remotely suspicious from them, BRING OUT THE NOOSE.
Post by: Persus13 on February 20, 2014, 07:09:23 am
Imperial Guardsman-
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109-
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+- Notquitethere
No Lynch-
Not Voting-Everyone except NQT
0 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 1 will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST.
Does the Wincon change for the third parties when they fail/complete their third party wincons?Yes
After Good/Ugly win: they need to survive till the end.
Good/Ugly loses: Surviving member of the team gets the town Wincon
Bad Wins: He needs to survive until the end.
Bad loses: He's dead.
You are correct.One more question: if the Good nks the Bad and the Bad tries to nk the Ugly at the same night, what happens?I assume they both die.
Can we get confirmation of this Persus?
Post by: Solymr on February 20, 2014, 07:57:51 am
Other than paradox cases, rules are pretty easy. It's the mindgames that are hard when you have no experience.
So, why are you voting for scientist?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 20, 2014, 08:02:08 am
NQT:
Other than paradox cases, rules are pretty easy. It's the mindgames that are hard when you have no experience.
So, why are you voting for scientist?
It's a random pressure vote, intended to get people talking. It happens quite a bit at the beginning of Day 1.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 20, 2014, 08:05:09 am
And a Question for you: You are the Union General, and after having some serious speculation about them, you inspect them, and they show as Union. Some other people are pressing on them. What do you do, and why?
If it's not MyLo or LyLo, I probably shouldn't reveal myself yet unless I know who two or more scum are, so I'll probably do what I can, but will have to leave them to die - the town almost loses for sure if the Union General dies early.
Post by: notquitethere on February 20, 2014, 10:28:02 am
And, from personal experience, active lurking is more suspicious.So you're saying we should be suspicious of you if you active-lurk. You know, in my books just responding to questions and not pressing your own is very passive play. Could you please ask (at least) three other players some questions?
Solymr
So, why are you voting for scientist?I like to make the most of the beginning of the game to apply pressure in the form of unmotivated votes. If Scientist says something that sounds fishy, then it'll turn into a proper vote. The vote is the weapon of town and to be effective we have to wield it effectively. When you first play this game it's a bit tricky to know what's a good thing to ask. Try to ask questions that will trip people up later if they contradict themselves. Here, try asking three other players some trap questions.
DarkStar — I assume then that you agree with my analysis of how the Ugly player should play?
Post by: Superblackcat on February 20, 2014, 11:38:13 am
Quote
Superblackcat —Do you think it's necessary to engage with everyone in the first day or do you think focusing on just a handful of players is enough?
NQT: My brain isn't strong enough to focus on multiple people, I usually end up just in one of the many babbles. I guess focusing on a handful is enough, as long as it is the correct handful ;)
Post by: Solymr on February 20, 2014, 11:43:21 am
I can only come up with two at the moment, let's try them.
Tiruin:
If you caught someone commiting a logical fallacy, would you try to get them lynched?
TDS:
You are a Confederate, and someone claiming to be the Union General points to someone who isn't a fellow spy as a Confederate, what would you do?
Post by: Caz on February 20, 2014, 12:24:58 pm
Caz: As the bad, you claimed union general and tried to get another player you thought was the good lynched. When the player was revealed as non-confederate by the lynch, you are caught in your bluff. What do you do?I should read back on how the game works. One union general and one confed general, who are essentially cops, right? The rest of us are vanilla townies except for the Good, Bad and Ugly?
In that situation there wouldn't be much to do but lie and try to throw suspicions onto someone else as my partner, etc. What would you do?
Caz: If you were the Bad and you had identified the Ugly, would you kill him immediately or wait to see who the Good is?Sure, I'd kill him.
Caz: You're a Confederate spy, and your scum buddy is getting attacked after someone claiming Union General has inspected them. How do you proceed, and why?I'd continue building cases normally. If my partner was really inspected, there's not much to do and CCing would be more damaging than not.
Caz — Do you think it's important to think about the possible ramifications of what you say before you post?Probably. I think this is a non-question. What information can you possibly get out of this?
Darkpaladin109 - Haven't seen you before. What's your strategy to win this game?
Mastahcheese - Do you think it would ever be in a union soldier's best interest to fakeclaim cop? Why or why not?
Imperial Guardsman - You are scum and one of your buddies makes an error that you catch. Do you bring it up and draw attention to them or let it slide?
MyOwnWorstEnemy - If you were the Bad, how would you go about identifying the Good and Ugly? Would you kill each night regardless?
Post by: notquitethere on February 20, 2014, 12:44:04 pm
My brain isn't strong enough to focus on multiple people, I usually end up just in one of the many babbles. I guess focusing on a handful is enough, as long as it is the correct handful ;)Here's a pro-tip: take notes. Einstein said "My pencil is smarter than I am", you can avoid requiring great feats of intellect if you write things down.
My thinking is: how are you going to know you're focusing on the correct handful if you don't interact with everyone?
Caz
What does probably mean here? Yes or no; should you carefully craft each question or should you shoot from the hip and type things as they come to you?Caz: As the bad, you claimed union general and tried to get another player you thought was the good lynched. When the player was revealed as non-confederate by the lynch, you are caught in your bluff. What do you do?I should read back on how the game works. One union general and one confed general, who are essentially cops, right? The rest of us are vanilla townies except for the Good, Bad and Ugly?
In that situation there wouldn't be much to do but lie and try to throw suspicions onto someone else as my partner, etc. What would you do?Caz: If you were the Bad and you had identified the Ugly, would you kill him immediately or wait to see who the Good is?Sure, I'd kill him.Caz: You're a Confederate spy, and your scum buddy is getting attacked after someone claiming Union General has inspected them. How do you proceed, and why?I'd continue building cases normally. If my partner was really inspected, there's not much to do and CCing would be more damaging than not.Caz — Do you think it's important to think about the possible ramifications of what you say before you post?Probably. I think this is a non-question. What information can you possibly get out of this?
What do I intend to learn from this? Whatever you say, it's a trap you can later fall into if/when you contradict yourself.
Post by: Caz on February 20, 2014, 12:47:08 pm
What does probably mean here? Yes or no; should you carefully craft each question or should you shoot from the hip and type things as they come to you?
What do I intend to learn from this? Whatever you say, it's a trap you can later fall into if/when you contradict yourself.
Ah, I tend to contradict myself anyway. Do you think that scum players contradict themselves more often than townies? If so, why is this?
I'm probably more on the side of saying things as they come to me. Sometimes I keep a little list of things that bothered me, but I don't really structure the games out. Too much work.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 20, 2014, 02:50:55 pm
CheeseI do not disagree, as I've seen it myself. And no, I do not plan to lurk, activity is the life of these games. If a player says that they will be absent, and continues to say so at periodic times, at what point does it become no longer acceptable? And before you ask, no, I do not plan on doing this, either.notquitethere: Someone has been lurking, and a couple other players have been going after them repeatedly. What's your take on the situation, and why?Well, lurking is a crime against the game. Sometimes though, a player will say in advance that they can't be around as much and it's okay to cut them a bit of slack. I guess in this situation, I'd look to see whether the players are solely focusing on lurkers. This can be a sign of scum trying to appear proactive by go after people that won't chat back. Low hanging fruit and all that. Do you disagree? Are you planning to lurk?
Caz
Mastahcheese - Do you think it would ever be in a union soldier's best interest to fakeclaim cop? Why or why not?Absolutely not. If a union soldier fake-claims, then odds are they would be a counter-claim by the real general. Then one would die, and the next day, the other would. It'd be a terrible loss, both of the loss of 2 town, and the loss of 2 whole days that could have been productive. What are your thoughts on the situation?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 20, 2014, 03:27:57 pm
DarkStar — I assume then that you agree with my analysis of how the Ugly player should play?
Yeah, I can't see many other things that would not end badly that the Ugly could do.
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 20, 2014, 04:58:13 pm
Imperial Guardsman - You are scum and one of your buddies makes an error that you catch. Do you bring it up and draw attention to them or let it slide?Yes.
TheDarkStar, you are the Bad. Do you be cautious and watch the play of the others, keeping your nightkills in reserve? Or do you play as a NK immune Serial Killer?
MastahCheese, you are the Ugly. Would you sacrifice someones life to make a General claim and get someone lynched to attempt to attract the Confederates or Bad?
NQT, you are the Good. Do you side with the Union or Confederates?
+!!scientist!!+-, join the danged discussion.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on February 20, 2014, 05:47:12 pm
+!!scientist!!+: What do you think is the best strategy for the bad in this game?Same as for any serial killer, stay inconspicuous and figure out who poses the greatest threat to you, or who is most likely the good or the ugly.
+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?To try and get a reaction out of anyone or everyone, and use these reactions for future scum hunting. Also, while these questions and answers are not as useful as people make them out to be, looking back at who attacked whom and what the dynamics were at the beginning can be very helpful on later days.
+!!scientist!!+: You are a Union Soldier, and the Good has been killed in the night, along with the Union General. Nobody really made any cases against them, and neither were particularly effective at scumhunting. What do you do now, and why?I go back and read through everything again, because there had to be some reason, and I'll only find it by looking harder.
+!!scientist!!+-, join the danged discussion.Challenge accepted.
Hey DarkPaladin, MyOwnWorstEnemy, Tiruin, WAKE UP! And I thought I was late to the party...
DP- What inspired you to play mafia?
MOWE- How do you take your tea/coffee?
Trirruin- how much do you hate it when I misspell your name?
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on February 20, 2014, 05:57:42 pm
+!!scientist!!+: Actually, I've got a better question: You are the bad, and one of the players seems to be an obvious confederate to you. For lack of a better target, do you kill him, or do you kill a random other person.Sorry about missing this, but obviously you would kill the confederate, because that's one step closer to the scum being gone, meaning less NK's and chances for you to die. It's far better than gambling on a 2/9 chance that you'll kill one of the two other third parties, when you might accidently kill an innocent and get closer to the unpredictable bloodbath that would be the Good, Bad, and Scum shootout.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 20, 2014, 06:12:09 pm
TheDarkStar, you are the Bad. Do you be cautious and watch the play of the others, keeping your nightkills in reserve? Or do you play as a NK immune Serial Killer?
Probably as an SK. They know I'm there and there is no point in not taking action, so I'd try to kill a lot of people.
Post by: Caz on February 20, 2014, 06:18:15 pm
TheDarkStar, you are the Bad. Do you be cautious and watch the play of the others, keeping your nightkills in reserve? Or do you play as a NK immune Serial Killer?
Probably as an SK. They know I'm there and there is no point in not taking action, so I'd try to kill a lot of people.
Who will you kill N1?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 20, 2014, 06:30:38 pm
TDS: Do you think that it would ever be to the benefit in this game for a confederate to roleclaim third party?
Imperial: What play experience do you have? I haven't seen you in these parts before.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 20, 2014, 06:31:54 pm
TheDarkStar, you are the Bad. Do you be cautious and watch the play of the others, keeping your nightkills in reserve? Or do you play as a NK immune Serial Killer?
Probably as an SK. They know I'm there and there is no point in not taking action, so I'd try to kill a lot of people.
Who will you kill N1?
I'd probably kill whoever seemed like they knew what was going on best. They are likely good players, and I don't want anyone figuring out who I am. Confusion is good for malignant third-parties.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 20, 2014, 07:11:08 pm
TDS: Do you think that it would ever be to the benefit in this game for a confederate to roleclaim third party?
Good: If the Bad is dead, the Ugly revealed himself (rather than the Good revealing him) and either the Good didn't claim or he just recently claimed.
Ugly: The Good died without revealing and the Bad is dead.
Bad: Not as far as I can tell.
Of course, if the Bad dies while the Good and Ugly are alive but haven't claimed, then the scum could always claim Good and Ugly in a MyLo/LyLo situation.
All of the above assumes that it's mid to late game.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on February 20, 2014, 07:31:15 pm
flaming scientist: What purpose do you see behind the questions you are asking?
+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?To try and get a reaction out of anyone or everyone, and use these reactions for future scum hunting. Also, while these questions and answers are not as useful as people make them out to be, looking back at who attacked whom and what the dynamics were at the beginning can be very helpful on later days.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 20, 2014, 07:32:49 pm
But your questions aren't even attacking: they are truly random. Some of the other questions give insight into how the other players think with regards to the game. So why not ask some of those?flaming scientist: What purpose do you see behind the questions you are asking?+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?To try and get a reaction out of anyone or everyone, and use these reactions for future scum hunting. Also, while these questions and answers are not as useful as people make them out to be, looking back at who attacked whom and what the dynamics were at the beginning can be very helpful on later days.
Post by: Superblackcat on February 20, 2014, 08:05:02 pm
Quote
Cat
Quote from: Superblackcat on Today at 11:38:13 am
My brain isn't strong enough to focus on multiple people, I usually end up just in one of the many babbles. I guess focusing on a handful is enough, as long as it is the correct handful
Here's a pro-tip: take notes. Einstein said "My pencil is smarter than I am", you can avoid requiring great feats of intellect if you write things down.
My thinking is: how are you going to know you're focusing on the correct handful if you don't interact with everyone?
By reading through what everyone has to say, and attacking them for it. I'm not saying just pick 2 and talk. But if you don't think someone is mafia, there isn't a point to talk to them really... So There's not point to continuously have discussions with everyone.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 20, 2014, 09:21:39 pm
DP109: As a new player, welcome. What do you expect from your first game of mafia?I expect it to be chaotic.
Darkpaladin109: You're the Confederate General, and you've located the Union General in the night. How do you proceed, and why?I assasinate the General, then try to shift the blame on others and hopefully get them linched.
Solymr, Darkpaladin109Yes.
Do you think you have a sound grasp on the rules?
Darkpaladin109 - Haven't seen you before. What's your strategy to win this game?Remaining cautious and hidden. Mostly depends on the role I'm assigned otherwise.
DP- What inspired you to play mafia?I wanted to try it out.
That should be all the questions.
Post by: Caz on February 20, 2014, 09:30:17 pm
Darkpaladin109 - Haven't seen you before. What's your strategy to win this game?Remaining cautious and hidden. Mostly depends on the role I'm assigned otherwise.
That's... not reassuring.
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on February 20, 2014, 09:37:01 pm
I'll admit that my questions weren't like other peoples, but I seriously just want a response. any lurker forced to talk is a good thing. Also, I'm of the opinion that these questions about tactics a are little more than metaphorical minefields, and people get through this minefield more by dancing the verbal dance of no-scumtells, not by being innocent.But your questions aren't even attacking: they are truly random. Some of the other questions give insight into how the other players think with regards to the game. So why not ask some of those?flaming scientist: What purpose do you see behind the questions you are asking?+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?To try and get a reaction out of anyone or everyone, and use these reactions for future scum hunting. Also, while these questions and answers are not as useful as people make them out to be, looking back at who attacked whom and what the dynamics were at the beginning can be very helpful on later days.
A small piece of advice: remaining "hidden" is considered lurking, and it is considered very scummy. Maybe you should read up a bit more on tactics.Darkpaladin109 - Haven't seen you before. What's your strategy to win this game?Remaining cautious and hidden. Mostly depends on the role I'm assigned otherwise.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 20, 2014, 10:46:13 pm
If you weren't a new payer, I'd probably at least FoS you for that, but just remember that lurking is considered a scum tactic (indeed, apparently it used to be, until people began lynch all lurkers policies). The part about "it depends on what role I get" isn't at all reassuring, either.DP109: As a new player, welcome. What do you expect from your first game of mafia?I expect it to be chaotic.Darkpaladin109: You're the Confederate General, and you've located the Union General in the night. How do you proceed, and why?I assasinate the General, then try to shift the blame on others and hopefully get them linched.Solymr, Darkpaladin109Yes.
Do you think you have a sound grasp on the rules?Darkpaladin109 - Haven't seen you before. What's your strategy to win this game?Remaining cautious and hidden. Mostly depends on the role I'm assigned otherwise.DP- What inspired you to play mafia?I wanted to try it out.
That should be all the questions.
Post by: Persus13 on February 21, 2014, 12:18:29 am
Imperial Guardsman-
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109-
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+- Notquitethere, Imperial Guardsman
No Lynch-
Not Voting-Everyone except the two above
0 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 1 will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST.
Post by: notquitethere on February 21, 2014, 03:22:07 am
Ah, I tend to contradict myself anyway. Do you think that scum players contradict themselves more often than townies? If so, why is this?Anyone can end up typing things that appear contradictory. An innocent town player acting without deliberate deception can always give an honest explanation for their words. A dissembling scumster who has been caught out in a contradiction will be forced to make excuses if the contradiction didn't flow from an honest mistake. Excuses are harder to manufacture than explanations and are more liable to multiply the player's deceptions.
I'm probably more on the side of saying things as they come to me. Sometimes I keep a little list of things that bothered me, but I don't really structure the games out. Too much work.I think you're showing insufficient dedication. You think this is a game? Mafia is serious business.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cheese
If a player says that they will be absent, and continues to say so at periodic times, at what point does it become no longer acceptable?Good question. If they do it for more than a day then they've presented themselves as a legitimate target for the lynch: for town to win LYLO, you need to have engaged players still alive; giving semi-absent players a free pass indefinitely is a recipe for loss. It's better to get rid of such players earlier on while the cost of mislynching is lower. Do you disagree?
Scientist
Of course the answers are going to be useless if you ask useless questions. It's almost impossible to get a rise out of someone with some casual RVS questions. A good RVS question sets a trap: you get the player to pin themselves to a standard you can hold them to later. Of course, even a bad question (what could you gain from your question to MOWE?) starts a conversation and all games need to start with people talking before the accusations start flying.+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?To try and get a reaction out of anyone or everyone, and use these reactions for future scum hunting. Also, while these questions and answers are not as useful as people make them out to be, looking back at who attacked whom and what the dynamics were at the beginning can be very helpful on later days.
Here's a question: say it's near the end of Day 1 and you're pretty sure the player that is about to be lynched is town. Your vote could tie the vote. What do you do?
Cat
By reading through what everyone has to say, and attacking them for it. I'm not saying just pick 2 and talk. But if you don't think someone is mafia, there isn't a point to talk to them really... So There's not point to continuously have discussions with everyone.OK. That's a legitimate position for someone to hold and I'll hold you to that.
What do you think of Dark Paladin's answers?
Dark Paladin
Here's a tip: it's best to follow up answers to people's questions with questions of your own. You probably don't intend this, but wholly passive gameplay is seen as very scummy. A good question pins someone to something that they might later contradict. Questions like:
- Should we lynch lurkers just for lurking?
- Is it better to lynch someone you don't think is scum or tie the vote?
- Is it OK to keep a random vote on someone until the end of the day?
Staying hidden isn't an option. Ask some questions.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 21, 2014, 07:11:05 am
Anyone, I guess
You're the Good. You suspect that another player might be the Bad but you're not convinced. How do you proceed with this?
Post by: Solymr on February 21, 2014, 07:48:01 am
TDS:
Why are you selectively answering questions?
Imperial Guardsman:
You see players 1 through 5 form a bandwagon in that order, one that votes for someone else and another one who doesn't say anything about it, who would you suspect first?
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2014, 08:57:54 am
I'm not really good at coming up with questions, but alright. Are questions supposed to be just whatever we can come up with?
Anyone, I guess
You're the Good. You suspect that another player might be the Bad but you're not convinced. How do you proceed with this?
Get them lynched. This way, I don't waste a kill if I'm wrong. If I suspect them, there's probably some evidence that I can use.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2014, 09:19:30 am
TDS:
Why are you selectively answering questions?
Explain this please. What do you mean?
Post by: Solymr on February 21, 2014, 09:30:31 am
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 21, 2014, 11:02:12 am
You didn't answer my question earlier.
Oops, I missed that one.
Here:
TDS:
You are a Confederate, and someone claiming to be the Union General points to someone who isn't a fellow spy as a Confederate, what would you do?
[/quote
I realize that either they found the Ugly or they are a third party / Union solder who is lying to try to get trust. If the latter, they will die the next day for leading a mislynch. If they are telling the truth, I'll wait for the Ugly lynch to make sure of what they are saying, and then kill them the next night. Either way, the town wastes several days.
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 21, 2014, 11:41:19 am
Imperial Guardsman:Third, Fourth, and Fifth to vote.
You see players 1 through 5 form a bandwagon in that order, one that votes for someone else and another one who doesn't say anything about it, who would you suspect first?
Also, Scientist, not good enough. vote stays
Post by: Silthuri on February 21, 2014, 12:07:08 pm
Wolf:
MOWE: You are the confederate general, and have discovered the identity of the good. Do you claim union general and try to get them lynched, as they would have revealed confederate to the general, and hope that the counterclaim will give you a clear target?I would. I could get rid of the good and possibly the union general in quick succession, which seems like it would strike a heavy blow to the union.
NQT:
MyOwnWorstEnemy — What's a particularly telling scumtell in your eyes?Hmm... this is a hard one. What I think is scummy is someone not scumhunting, or doing as little as possible while trying to seem like they're doing something.
Caz:
MyOwnWorstEnemy - If you were the Bad, how would you go about identifying the Good and Ugly? Would you kill each night regardless?I would look for someone who's very active. I would probably kill every night, but make sure that I try not to draw attention to myself by who I kill.
Scientist:
MOWE- How do you take your tea/coffee?I like my tea very sweet. I don't drink coffee anymore, but back when I did, I liked it very sweet as well.
darkpaladin:
Anyone, I guessMy solution to anything: go back and read through stuff. Look at things that might be suspicious. How they've acted, their relationship with others, what flips have told me about them and other things that strike me as suspicious.
You're the Good. You suspect that another player might be the Bad but you're not convinced. How do you proceed with this?
Post by: Silthuri on February 21, 2014, 12:16:10 pm
MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
Post by: Silthuri on February 21, 2014, 11:15:22 pm
XD My opinion of mafia has changed dramatically because of this.I'm probably more on the side of saying things as they come to me. Sometimes I keep a little list of things that bothered me, but I don't really structure the games out. Too much work.I think you're showing insufficient dedication. You think this is a game? Mafia is serious business.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Seriously though... my weekend has finally arrived so I can finally start playing!
darkpaladin109:
Darkpaladin109 - Haven't seen you before. What's your strategy to win this game?Remaining cautious and hidden. Mostly depends on the role I'm assigned otherwise.
Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?
Imperial Guardsman:
Imperial Guardsman:Third, Fourth, and Fifth to vote.
You see players 1 through 5 form a bandwagon in that order, one that votes for someone else and another one who doesn't say anything about it, who would you suspect first?
Mind giving an explanation? You don't seem to keen on explanations. You haven't really elaborated on any of your answers thus far.
Tiruin:
You've been active on the forum, but not here. Any particular reason why?
Solymr:
You seem to be curious about the third parties. Just trying to get a feel for the rules of this game, or is it something else?
Post by: +!!scientist!!+ on February 21, 2014, 11:54:40 pm
ScientistIn my opinion, the kind of questions you suggest are just as likely, if not more, to make a naďve, honest townie look guilty and make a deceptive, thoughtful scum look innocent as they are to work properly. At the same time, it is beneficial for town to lynch on day 1 because it gives us a lot more to go on, so as far as your question goes, I would have to say that I wouldn't tie up the vote, and pray my read was faulty.Of course the answers are going to be useless if you ask useless questions. It's almost impossible to get a rise out of someone with some casual RVS questions. A good RVS question sets a trap: you get the player to pin themselves to a standard you can hold them to later. Of course, even a bad question (what could you gain from your question to MOWE?) starts a conversation and all games need to start with people talking before the accusations start flying.+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?To try and get a reaction out of anyone or everyone, and use these reactions for future scum hunting. Also, while these questions and answers are not as useful as people make them out to be, looking back at who attacked whom and what the dynamics were at the beginning can be very helpful on later days.
Here's a question: say it's near the end of Day 1 and you're pretty sure the player that is about to be lynched is town. Your vote could tie the vote. What do you do?
Post by: Solymr on February 22, 2014, 06:22:10 am
Third parties change the game completely, as a noobie I don't want to get surprised in a bad way. Besides, other people are also curious about third parties and I didn't really know what else to ask.
Imperial Guardsman:
You're acting quite suspicious to me. When asked about being a pro-town you give decent reasons but when asked about your actions as scum you give mathematician's answer.
You also insist on keeping your vote on scientist, despite your initial reason being "join the danged discussion" and your reason for keeping the vote after he did being "not good enough".
Your answer to my last question is also suspicious, not giving reasons for why would you suspect the last 3 players on a bandwagon. It seems like you're trying to divert attention from the fact that you voted second for scientist (even if the first was just a pressure vote) and that the middle of the bandwagon is the least noticeable and therefore the most preferible place for scum.
Post by: notquitethere on February 22, 2014, 06:55:01 am
In my opinion, the kind of questions you suggest are just as likely, if not more, to make a naďve, honest townie look guilty and make a deceptive, thoughtful scum look innocent as they are to work properly.See, I don't think is necessarily the case, but I'm not going to hold it dogmatically. Let's look back on this on Day 2 or 3 and see whether any of these questions turned out to be useful or telling.
At the same time, it is beneficial for town to lynch on day 1 because it gives us a lot more to go on, so as far as your question goes, I would have to say that I wouldn't tie up the vote, and pray my read was faulty.It's interesting that you say this. I just realised that we've played together just over a year ago. In that game you were town lynched day 1, I was the cop and I tried to tie the vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3944015#msg3944015) because I pretty damn sure you couldn't be scum because you were playing too suicidally. You were lynched, I was night killed and the game was later won by scum. Did I make the wrong call then?
MOWE
Hmm... this is a hard one. What I think is scummy is someone not scumhunting, or doing as little as possible while trying to seem like they're doing something.OK. I'll be asking you about who's done the least scumhunting at the end of the day.
Imperial Guardsman
NQT, you are the Good. Do you side with the Union or Confederates?Given that if the Ugly dies, the Good essentially becomes a Unionist, it would make sense for them to side with the Union.
I note that you asked me this question here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5027400#msg5027400). I overlooked it (because it was in a huge undifferentiated bolded block). I post afterwards here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5028729#msg5028729), answering a whole bunch of people but not you. Yet you enter into the thread again here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5029263#msg5029263), but you don't pull me up on the missed question. OK. I get that playing mafia is strongly performative: some people are better at juggling lots of different conversations than others. And even then, it's difficult to get right all the time. But it seems like you're just going through the motions. Can you give an explanation for your play so far?
Post by: Caz on February 22, 2014, 07:46:36 am
Anyone can end up typing things that appear contradictory. An innocent town player acting without deliberate deception can always give an honest explanation for their words. A dissembling scumster who has been caught out in a contradiction will be forced to make excuses if the contradiction didn't flow from an honest mistake. Excuses are harder to manufacture than explanations and are more liable to multiply the player's deceptions.I suppose that's true to the extent that scum has more info than town, but in general townies make just as many mistakes imo, if not more. While townies are trying to pick apart words to find any argument they can (frequently bad arguments, as townies don't want to look like they're lurking even less than scum), while the mafia can coordinate a strategy to make lynching someone seem reasonable, even if it was just a dumbly-worded statement.
You say you use some kind of evidence-backed system to scumhunt. Do you think this absolves you of your responsibility to defend your own actions?
I think you're showing insufficient dedication. You think this is a game? Mafia is serious business.Heh.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
IG
Also, Scientist, not good enough. vote staysWhat could Scientist say in his defence that would convince you to remove your vote?
mastahcheese
Absolutely not. If a union soldier fake-claims, then odds are they would be a counter-claim by the real general. Then one would die, and the next day, the other would. It'd be a terrible loss, both of the loss of 2 town, and the loss of 2 whole days that could have been productive. What are your thoughts on the situation?I say that's fair. In certain setups it can work, but since the only PRs are cops and third parties, it wouldn't be in town's best interest. It might work for the Bad, though. If you were a third party, would you try to go for a major victory and fulfill your wincons, or go for the minor and town/mafside?
MOWE
I would look for someone who's very active. I would probably kill every night, but make sure that I try not to draw attention to myself by who I kill.What's your method for avoiding attention being attracted to you?
Solymr
When asked about being a pro-town you give decent reasons but when asked about your actions as scum you give mathematician's answer.What does this mean?
Post by: Solymr on February 22, 2014, 08:01:57 am
When IG answered the question you asked him about calling out a fellow scum or just leave it, he just answered yes. He didn't even specify which of them he was saying yes, just yes.
He just gave you a Mathematician's answer (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MathematiciansAnswer). As in technically correct, but completely useless answer.
Post by: Caz on February 22, 2014, 08:22:53 am
Caz:Ah, thanks.
When IG answered the question you asked him about calling out a fellow scum or just leave it, he just answered yes. He didn't even specify which of them he was saying yes, just yes.
He just gave you a Mathematician's answer (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MathematiciansAnswer). As in technically correct, but completely useless answer.
* Caz was linked to TVtropes and may not return.
Post by: Silthuri on February 22, 2014, 08:24:08 am
MOWEI would look for someone who's very active. I would probably kill every night, but make sure that I try not to draw attention to myself by who I kill.What's your method for avoiding attention being attracted to you?
I basically mean that I wouldn't just off everyone who gave me a bit of trouble. In my book, that's quite scummy and I'd probably be labeled as Confederate.
Post by: notquitethere on February 22, 2014, 08:27:20 am
I suppose that's true to the extent that scum has more info than town, but in general townies make just as many mistakes imo, if not more. While townies are trying to pick apart words to find any argument they can (frequently bad arguments, as townies don't want to look like they're lurking even less than scum), while the mafia can coordinate a strategy to make lynching someone seem reasonable, even if it was just a dumbly-worded statement.You're quite right that town players don't always make good arguments, and people can be lynched for jumped-up reasons. That's why, ultimately, I base my decisions on the what people have done more than what they've said.
You say you use some kind of evidence-backed system to scumhunt. Do you think this absolves you of your responsibility to defend your own actions?I don't just say I do, I actually do: look back on almost any of the games I've played in before. By 'actions' I take it you mean, votes, accusations and general activity. It is quite likely (especially from Day 2 onwards) that I'll cast votes and accusations based on a player's overall voting behaviour and activity. This doesn't absolve me from offering explanations to defend what I do.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2014, 08:55:31 am
Post by: Solymr on February 22, 2014, 09:08:10 am
Even then, IG never really answered that question, so I want to know why didn't he give a detailed answer and what is his real answer to the question.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 22, 2014, 11:19:43 am
MastahCheese, you are the Ugly. Would you sacrifice someones life to make a General claim and get someone lynched to attempt to attract the Confederates or Bad?No, I don't think it'd be a good plan to claim to be something I'm not, regardless of the situation. Unless by "general" you aren't referring to the Power Role, in which case, I don't think getting anyone killed would be a good idea, it gives you less time to work on finding scum.
notquitethere
CheeseNot at all. You have to weigh the possibility of them being honestly preoccupied, and trying to get a free ride. And sometimes, that's not a chance you can take.If a player says that they will be absent, and continues to say so at periodic times, at what point does it become no longer acceptable?Good question. If they do it for more than a day then they've presented themselves as a legitimate target for the lynch: for town to win LYLO, you need to have engaged players still alive; giving semi-absent players a free pass indefinitely is a recipe for loss. It's better to get rid of such players earlier on while the cost of mislynching is lower. Do you disagree?
darkpaladin109
Anyone, I guessGather more evidence, look back at what all they've been saying. Rushing in too early would only leave you likely to get killed, or waste your one shot.
You're the Good. You suspect that another player might be the Bad but you're not convinced. How do you proceed with this?
Also, I'm really not liking your mention of trying to stay "hidden". Get in here.
MyOwnWorstEnemy
Mastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
Caz
mastahcheeseI'd think I'd try to focus on both victories, really. Pursue the general town/scum victory, and if an opportunity presented itself, go for the personal third party victory. Putting too much focus on a single one could jeopardize both.Absolutely not. If a union soldier fake-claims, then odds are they would be a counter-claim by the real general. Then one would die, and the next day, the other would. It'd be a terrible loss, both of the loss of 2 town, and the loss of 2 whole days that could have been productive. What are your thoughts on the situation?I say that's fair. In certain setups it can work, but since the only PRs are cops and third parties, it wouldn't be in town's best interest. It might work for the Bad, though. If you were a third party, would you try to go for a major victory and fulfill your wincons, or go for the minor and town/mafside?
Sorry I can't post more questions right now, I have to do something, should have time later today.
Post by: Silthuri on February 22, 2014, 12:02:49 pm
MyOwnWorstEnemyMastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
Apparently not enough to notice the "why" tagged on the end. Sorry about that. I'd point out their flaws in logic and attack them for it because that's how I feel one should react in that situation and that's how I feel I would react. When someone's convincing the others to go after you with no evidence, you do your best to prove to the others that they have no evidence. It just seems logical to me.
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 22, 2014, 12:21:12 pm
Imperial Guardsman:First and Second on a ML are usually a mistake, the rest are just trying to kill someone. GEE I WONDER WHO WANTS EVERYONE TO DIE.Imperial Guardsman:Third, Fourth, and Fifth to vote.
You see players 1 through 5 form a bandwagon in that order, one that votes for someone else and another one who doesn't say anything about it, who would you suspect first?
Mind giving an explanation? You don't seem to keen on explanations. You haven't really elaborated on any of your answers thus far.
And NQT, its RVS, and I dont want to push anyone without making sure. Scientist just asked 3 useless questions in a row, only one of which could POSSIBLY shine some light on anything.
Solymr, I dont know much about scum because I have only been scum on here 2 times, one of which my computer flipped me off and got me replaced, and the other I goofed and got myself lynched ( as the scum ROLE COP ) by accident. Sorry about my answer, but I find myself unable to really answer questions about scum, as I dont understand them that much.
Post by: Solymr on February 22, 2014, 12:39:14 pm
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 22, 2014, 01:40:41 pm
I never said that the bandwagon ended up in Mislynch. I was asking for suspicions BEFORE the lynch happened. Or if you didn't know that, at least specify yourself the conditions for your suspicions.Yes, but I am not scum, and I do not plan to do what I would do as scum. If I was, I would be
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.
Post by: Caz on February 22, 2014, 01:51:24 pm
I never said that the bandwagon ended up in Mislynch. I was asking for suspicions BEFORE the lynch happened. Or if you didn't know that, at least specify yourself the conditions for your suspicions.Yes, but I am not scum, and I do not plan to do what I would do as scum. If I was, I would be
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.contemplating about what tactics I would use to murder the most competent playersblending in and bussing scum that mess up and compromise.
Or you slipped.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 22, 2014, 08:00:29 pm
[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
Post by: Caz on February 22, 2014, 08:12:18 pm
[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
Oh cmon. I gave you a pass on the first comment because you're new but this is exactly what maf does. darkpaladin109[/color]
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 22, 2014, 08:41:41 pm
[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
In general, lurking is a bad idea. If you're quiet, you don't have a say on what happens because you never say anything. Also, it can be seen as being scum - scum tend to not want to be noticed. In general, it's a good idea to be active.
So yeah, darkpaladin109 for scummy play. I'm not voting quite yet, though.
Post by: Silthuri on February 22, 2014, 09:22:18 pm
... that won't keep you safe. If anything, it'll put you in more danger of being lynched. Darkpaladin, I'm watching you.[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
Imperial Guardsman:
... wow. That's a bit harsh. That's the first time I've heard a scum plan specifically mention the desire to bus companions who "mess up." Also, unless I'm reading incorrectly, he never accused you of being scum, yet you started explaining that you weren't scum. You're on the defense quite quickly.I never said that the bandwagon ended up in Mislynch. I was asking for suspicions BEFORE the lynch happened. Or if you didn't know that, at least specify yourself the conditions for your suspicions.Yes, but I am not scum, and I do not plan to do what I would do as scum. If I was, I would be
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.contemplating about what tactics I would use to murder the most competent playersblending in and bussing scum that mess up and compromise.
Imperial Guardsman:First and Second on a ML are usually a mistake, the rest are just trying to kill someone. GEE I WONDER WHO WANTS EVERYONE TO DIE.Imperial Guardsman:Third, Fourth, and Fifth to vote.
You see players 1 through 5 form a bandwagon in that order, one that votes for someone else and another one who doesn't say anything about it, who would you suspect first?
Mind giving an explanation? You don't seem to keen on explanations. You haven't really elaborated on any of your answers thus far.
-snip-
What?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2014, 09:24:25 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 22, 2014, 09:33:49 pm
Why do you default to a bussing strategy as scum? Isn't it in the best interest of scum to play together? And why would you announce such a thing in general chat questioning?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2014, 01:07:17 pm
I never said that the bandwagon ended up in Mislynch. I was asking for suspicions BEFORE the lynch happened. Or if you didn't know that, at least specify yourself the conditions for your suspicions.Yes, but I am not scum, and I do not plan to do what I would do as scum. If I was, I would be
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.contemplating about what tactics I would use to murder the most competent playersblending in and bussing scum that mess up and compromise.
Or you slipped.
If you are going to be part of the game, one line comments are not enough. You are doing active lurking: why? What do you gain from short comments, as opposed to thought out answers or comments? Why have you not asked any questions recently?[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
Oh cmon. I gave you a pass on the first comment because you're new but this is exactly what maf does. darkpaladin109[/color]
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2014, 01:17:15 pm
"I swear by my gun, I'm a union man. You got ears, you ought hear it. There's no mistaking this old yankee accent. Ask anyone: no true Delawarean would spy for the Confederation."Just realized that I hadn't seen this post yet, time to answer a question.
OK. Time to embrace old west action... I've played games with some of you before, but there looks to be quite a new crowd. The aim of today is obviously to lynch someone, but also to ensure we get the most information for future days. I want each of you then to have a justifiable reason for your lynch vote today. If you can't explain yourself, you're giving everyone else the rope to hang you with.
For those of you that don't know, I'm the resident Mafia Psephologist (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psephology). I have so much faith in my methods, that even when I'm scum I'll willingly out my fellow scum using my metrics (see the last BYOR, for instance, or even way back with Mafia and Masons). Basically, I'll be keeping close track of what people do in terms of votes and claimed actions, as well as what they say. Some people (Tiruin) don't like this approach because pointing to the data and saying it makes someone looks scummy doesn't give people much to respond to. Is it unfair on the murder suspect to point to their grubby fingerprints on the murder weapon? If some of you young guns want to join me in my analytical questing, whip up a spreadsheet and start keeping track of each player's interactions with each other player.
A thing to bear in mind: we've got third parties in this game. Third parties don't stick their neck out for nobody, while both town and scum have an incentive to try to avoid at least some players being lynched for bad reasons. So I want all of you (well, all us unionists at any rate) to pay attention to lurkers and players going along with weak cases and, especially, lurkers with weak cases.
Alright, enough yabbering, let's hang 'em high.
Cheesenotquitethere: Someone has been lurking, and a couple other players have been going after them repeatedly. What's your take on the situation, and why?Well, lurking is a crime against the game. Sometimes though, a player will say in advance that they can't be around as much and it's okay to cut them a bit of slack. I guess in this situation, I'd look to see whether the players are solely focusing on lurkers. This can be a sign of scum trying to appear proactive by go after people that won't chat back. Low hanging fruit and all that. Do you disagree? Are you planning to lurk?
WolfNQT: You have a great piece of information you want to share with the town, something that could tip the scales in the town's favor, but you are afraid that the mafia might mislead the town if you reveal this information and make the town lose. What do you do?It depends how I feel about the other players. In a typical game you'll have a bunch of players that are engaged, some lurkers and some players that are posting but not really paying attention. If I've got good accord with the other players and I feel I can explain thinks more cogently than scum, and most people are at least moderately attentive, then I'll say. Elsewise I might keep my mouth shut (at least until some of the more untrustworthy folk are dead). What's your take on the situation?NQT: thanks for the playlist, by the wayMy pleasure. I'm listening to it right now.
DarkStarNQT: If you were the Ugly, when would you reveal what you are?There's only very specific situations in which the Ugly should claim. If the Good is still alive, they don't want to claim even if if looks like they're about to be lynched as the Bad will just kill them come night time. If the Good is dead and they're playing effectively as town, they don't want to claim because they want to maximise the chance that the Confederates will target them at night. However, in LYLO they should claim if they're about to be lynched (and have prepared evidence throughout the game in favour of this claim) because if they allow themselves to be mislynched at LYLO then they'll lose town the game.
Solymr, Darkpaladin109
Do you think you have a sound grasp on the rules?One more question: if the Good nks the Bad and the Bad tries to nk the Ugly at the same night, what happens?I assume they both die.
Can we get confirmation of this Persus?
Tiruin — What's a good reason to lynch somebody today?
MyOwnWorstEnemy — What's a particularly telling scumtell in your eyes?
+!!scientist!!+ — As far as you understand it, what's the point of the random vote/random question phase?
Caz — Do you think it's important to think about the possible ramifications of what you say before you post?
Imperial Guardsman — Which is more suspicious: active-lurking or not voting?
Superblackcat —Do you think it's necessary to engage with everyone in the first day or do you think focusing on just a handful of players is enough?
The reason I asked you that question was an allusion to the last game we played together, Smstr W/ Love. My take on the situation would be to say at least some of it, but subtly. It really depends on the number of people alive, but with up to three night kills a night in this game and no way to protect against them (except for the Ugly's kill reversal), I'd say as much as I thought I could without drawing an overt amount of attention onto myself.
Post by: Caz on February 23, 2014, 08:20:12 pm
If you are going to be part of the game, one line comments are not enough. You are doing active lurking: why? What do you gain from short comments, as opposed to thought out answers or comments? Why have you not asked any questions recently?
Busy lately, just posting when I can. Do you think my vote on darkpaladin109 is misguided? Why/why not?
Post by: Persus13 on February 23, 2014, 08:33:15 pm
Imperial Guardsman- Solmyr, notquitethere, MOWE
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- Caz
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+- Imperial Guardsman
No Lynch-
Not Voting-Everyone except the two above
0 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 1 will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST. (About 26.5 hours from now)
Tiruin has been prodded. If any other players are thought to be needing prods, let me know.
Post by: Tiruin on February 23, 2014, 08:56:50 pm
Addressing the stuffs later on. For short recent notes: IG: Why're you voting Scientist again? Could you quote exactly what gave you that incentive? Is that a pressure vote or something else?
NQT: Why'd you include a subtlety towards a preferred role in your first post?
Everyone else: Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?
How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 23, 2014, 09:57:22 pm
I don't think that the vote is misguided, I'd vote for him except I know how frustrating it is to by lynched on your first day ever of mafia. Perhaps I'm too sentimental to play mafia...If you are going to be part of the game, one line comments are not enough. You are doing active lurking: why? What do you gain from short comments, as opposed to thought out answers or comments? Why have you not asked any questions recently?
Busy lately, just posting when I can. Do you think my vote on darkpaladin109 is misguided? Why/why not?
Oh lookie, I'm alive and argh be my everything on B12.I don't think it should be spent in debate, but I think that prodding people who seem scummy after the original posts is a good idea.
Addressing the stuffs later on. For short recent notes: IG: Why're you voting Scientist again? Could you quote exactly what gave you that incentive? Is that a pressure vote or something else?
NQT: Why'd you include a subtlety towards a preferred role in your first post?
Everyone else: Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?
How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?
I would treat scumtells by a naturally scummy or new player with a certain restraint, in that I won't immediately vote for them but WILL ask probing questions.
I would treat analysis from a player 'good' at hiding scumtells with the same regard: I'll question them a little more than I would otherwise.
Of course, I've been around for a little over a month and have no idea who fits what category, so...
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 23, 2014, 10:18:55 pm
Everyone else: Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?
How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?[/b]
I think today should be spent in debate to find out people's attitudes and who they talk to. On later days, you check this against what they are doing then. Day 1 tends to be for gathering basic information about people.
If the scumteam can avoid the obvious ones, we rely on investigative roles. If the scum team never slips up, though, then they are playing well and will probably do well until the lategame. From what I've seen, good scum playing can usually overcome good town playing, at least early on. Later on, the results from power roles really start mattering.
I tend to take into account the general scumminess of the player when they do something scummy - for example, I did not vote for DarkPaladin because he's new and not used to the forum mafia here. For someone like (just as an example; he's not playing) Jim Groovester, I'd probably be a lot more strict when it comes to scumtells and would also look a lot harder.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 23, 2014, 11:05:31 pm
Everyone else: [1] Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? [2] What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?(dividing up the questions to make it easier.)
[3] How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? [4] How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?
[1] Due to the fact that we lack any sort of facts at the moment, that's sort of how I'm going right now, but I'm trying to make sure to ask counter-questions to keep scum on their toes and hopefully find them when they trip. But I would like something to go off of. Do you have anything to suggest?
[2] Well, then you're just getting into WIFOM, if everyone knows how to act when under scrutiny. What do you do? And why in particular are you suspecting this?
[3] I'd treat them the same as any other, or at least I try to make a habit of it. What about you?
[4] Well, an analysis is still an analysis. You analyze the analysis. Does it add up? Why are you asking all of these questions all of the sudden? It seems like the sort of thing someone would say so they'd have it to fall back on later.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2014, 03:25:49 am
And NQT, its RVS, and I dont want to push anyone without making sure. Scientist just asked 3 useless questions in a row, only one of which could POSSIBLY shine some light on anything.That's reasonable enough. It'd be hypocritical of me to go too hard on you for missing something when I miss things. You're right that Scientist's questions were useless as questions, but as conversation starters they're OK.
Wolf
Just realized that I hadn't seen this post yet, time to answer a question.Thanks for following this up. I think that's a sensible kind of answer. There's only really one kind of secret information town can have, and that's an alignment inspection, and ordinarily the Inspector won't want to claim anything outright.
The reason I asked you that question was an allusion to the last game we played together, Smstr W/ Love. My take on the situation would be to say at least some of it, but subtly. It really depends on the number of people alive, but with up to three night kills a night in this game and no way to protect against them (except for the Ugly's kill reversal), I'd say as much as I thought I could without drawing an overt amount of attention onto myself.
Tiruin
Addressing the stuffs later on.I look forward to seeing this. We don't have forever left in the day so don't take too long. Before you ask 'is this a pressure vote?', yes, it is a pressure vote. You've posted a grand total of once since the game began. I can understand that real life can get in the way, that's OK, but I'd really like to see a bit more from you before the end of the day.
As for your question: do you mean my little introductory speech? It wasn't that subtle: I outright stated I was a unionist. I enjoy a little bit of light roleplaying to set the mood; I listen to my Spaghetti Western playlist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6GByhL-XeI&list=PLnvoeKa8s27895pzX85HX_hl5ioXOxdGZ&shuffle=346) too.
Superblackcat, DarkPaladin
You've both posted a total of three times since the game began. Do you plan to use your vote before the day ends? Who do you think is the most suspicious player?
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 06:46:53 am
This being my first game I don't know what else we could be doing, but talking seems definitely better than not talking.
I don't know much about reputation or scumtells either, but my common sense tells me that when scumtells aren't reliable, investigators and the process of elimination is the way to go.
As for analysis, I don't care what reputation the player has, every analysis is to be carefully inspected for errors. Analysis usually contain errors that direct to an innocent player, the difference is that townies make this errors by honest mistake and *should* correct themselves when pointed out. Scum will probably try to defend their error. If they don't, and they rectify, we still avoid an innocent player from being lynched.
Post by: Persus13 on February 24, 2014, 07:26:58 am
4maskwolf-
Imperial Guardsman- Solmyr, MOWE
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- Caz
Solymr-
Tiruin- notquitethere
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+- Imperial Guardsman
No Lynch-
Not Voting-4maskwolf, Mastahcheese, TDS, SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+
0 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 1 will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST. (About 26.5 hours from now)
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 24, 2014, 07:29:52 am
If someone is going to compromise the horribly outnumbered scum team, might as well use them to secure a spot as a clear, I guess. Also, yes, scientist is a pressure vote, and on that note, Unvote Scientist, shorten... that won't keep you safe. If anything, it'll put you in more danger of being lynched. Darkpaladin, I'm watching you.[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
Imperial Guardsman:... wow. That's a bit harsh. That's the first time I've heard a scum plan specifically mention the desire to bus companions who "mess up." Also, unless I'm reading incorrectly, he never accused you of being scum, yet you started explaining that you weren't scum. You're on the defense quite quickly.I never said that the bandwagon ended up in Mislynch. I was asking for suspicions BEFORE the lynch happened. Or if you didn't know that, at least specify yourself the conditions for your suspicions.Yes, but I am not scum, and I do not plan to do what I would do as scum. If I was, I would be
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.contemplating about what tactics I would use to murder the most competent playersblending in and bussing scum that mess up and compromise.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2014, 07:32:19 am
notquitethere- notquitethereUh, that's not quite right.
Tiruin-
IG
You're shortening AND unvoting. There's not long left in the day. Do you intend to cast your vote on the player you find most suspicious by the end of it?
Post by: Tiruin on February 24, 2014, 07:41:54 am
Post by: Caz on February 24, 2014, 02:04:04 pm
I think today should be spent in debate to find out people's attitudes and who they talk to. On later days, you check this against what they are doing then. Day 1 tends to be for gathering basic information about people.
Exactly that. Day1 seems to be useless for actually finding scum for Day1, but on the following days it becomes very useful, especially once we have information on roleflips tomorrow. It's more 'going through the motionns' even though it won't be useful until a later date. Doesn't stop me from hating it, though. :P
It wasn't that subtle: I outright stated I was a unionist.Did you read the flavour text more carefully this time? I'm still getting flashbacks of you claiming Loyalist about 3 times and we still failed to lynch you. What a terrible game.
If someone is going to compromise the horribly outnumbered scum team, might as well use them to secure a spot as a clear, I guess. Also, yes, scientist is a pressure vote, and on that note, Unvote Scientist, shortenGiving up already? Why would you do this?
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 02:55:36 pm
Everyone who has cast their vote: I want you to please restate why you are voting the person you are voting, and don't quote yourself from an earlier time.
Everyone who has not yet cast their vote: If you were forced to vote someone, who would it be? Why?
If anyone has any questions toward someone's vote, now the time for it.
4maskwolf: Do you plan on using your vote today? On who, and why?
Imperial Guardsman: You've got two people voting you, how do you feel about that? What are your thoughts?
TheDarkStar: Who do you find the most suspicious? why?
notquitethere: What do your "methods" that you were advertising tell you so far? Anything useful?
Caz: I certainly won't stop you from hating D1, but what do you think will be the most useful to come from it, and why?
Superblackcat: Where are you? You've not been around much.
Darkpaladin109: You haven't been around much, you've even admitted to trying to lay low. Now, beginner mistakes aside, you should understand why this is a bad plan. I'd like for you to explain if you still believe this to be a good plan, and why or why not.
Solymr:
And even while not having experience at playing scum you would try to know what would you do.Ok, would you tell me what you would do, since you seem to be thinking about it?
Tiruin: You need to stop delaying, Borscht or not. What are your reads so far? And if you would explain the reasons for your reads?
+!!scientist!!+: Do you feel better now that IG's pressure vote is off of you?
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 03:23:43 pm
I'll be asleep when the day ends, so if someone wants to point out a different explanation for IG's answers other than he's scum, please do so.
And answering to that question, if a scumbuddy made a mistake I caught, first I would point him out on it IN PRIVATE, so maybe he has time to make up a reasonable excuse. I wouldn't point it out in public unless everyone is already deciding to lynch him. To be fair I have no idea what could I do in that situation to try and save his ass without looking scummy.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 03:29:27 pm
And answering to that question, if a scumbuddy made a mistake I caught, first I would point him out on it IN PRIVATE, so maybe he has time to make up a reasonable excuse. I wouldn't point it out in public unless everyone is already deciding to lynch him. To be fair I have no idea what could I do in that situation to try and save his ass without looking scummy.Of course you'd point it out in private, that's exactly what scum should do. Because, of course, town couldn't do that, so if you say it out in the open, you're town, right? Speaking of your second answer, no, there really isn't anything you could do. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if you even thought about bussing him for a slip. Certainly would make you seem like a good scum-hunter. What do you think about that thought, Solymr? And why?
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 03:41:29 pm
I think bussing should only be a last resort when the player screws up so much that it's pretty much impossible to defend without everyone calling BS.
And I wouldn't point it out in public if there's a chance that nobody noticed it. Or if someone else makes another mistake.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 03:54:10 pm
It would be hard for me to bus him without me looking bad, since being too eager or too cautious makes people suspicious. The trick is staying in the unconspicuous middle, but that requires a great deal of skill and experience.While you say this requires skill, you sure seem to know a bit about exactly when a good time to do it would be.
And I wouldn't point it out in public if there's a chance that nobody noticed it. Or if someone else makes another mistake.But someone already noticed it before you said anything.
Imperial Guardsman:Mind giving an explanation? You don't seem to keen on explanations. You haven't really elaborated on any of your answers thus far.Imperial Guardsman:Third, Fourth, and Fifth to vote.
You see players 1 through 5 form a bandwagon in that order, one that votes for someone else and another one who doesn't say anything about it, who would you suspect first?
MOWE already pointed it out, a whole 7 hours earlier, disproving that theory.
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 04:03:32 pm
And I don't understand what the last point of your post is.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 04:11:04 pm
And I don't understand what the last point of your post is.
This.
And I wouldn't point it out in public if there's a chance that nobody noticed it. Or if someone else makes another mistake.But, as I pointed out, MOWE had already drawn attention to it. AND (I just noticed this!) IG said that in a 5 person bandwagon, he'd suspect the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. So you made sure to act quickly to get the second spot, right? A day 1 lynch on scum is pretty much guaranteed to give you the trust of others, possibly even through a long time over many days, enough time to win without him!
What are your thoughts on this, Solymr? Because so far, I'm not liking your answers one bit.
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 04:22:00 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 04:33:28 pm
Actually, I'm just going to vote you, Solymr, because your answers to my questions have given me plenty more to suspect about you.
It did, I wasn't really sure what it was, but when I noticed it I had already gone to sleep.And all it was was just a feeling? Nothing better then this?
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 04:46:17 pm
I asked that specific question because I saw IG vote second for scientist. It seemed like a good base to start pressuring, so I asked that question to see who would he tell us he would suspect on a bandwagon. When I saw him post 3rd 4th and 5th I got more suspicious, so I tried rereading his posts to see if there was something else that would make him suspicious.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 04:49:25 pm
Well, no, it wasn't just a feeling.Is that poor wording, or a slip that you've been trying to frame him? Because that seems really incriminating.
I asked that specific question because I saw IG vote second for scientist. It seemed like a good base to start pressuring, so I asked that question to see who would he tell us he would suspect on a bandwagon. When I saw him post 3rd 4th and 5th I got more suspicious, so I tried rereading his posts to see if there was something else that would make him suspicious.
And you've pretty much just contradicted yourself on that first point.
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 04:58:49 pm
And how am I contradicting myself? Look at the post where I vote for IG and you'll see the reasons for my vote based on my knowledge back then.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 05:08:48 pm
English isn't my first language, but why would that be incriminating? Aren't you supposed to look for evidence in people's posts?Yes, but the way you worded it isn't the way you would say "look for evidence to prove he's guilty", you worded it more like "look for anything I can find to convict him with" which is pretty scummy, to me. I'll let that part slide, for now, since you aren't an English native speaker.
And how am I contradicting myself? Look at the post where I vote for IG and you'll see the reasons for my vote based on my knowledge back then.That was your post when you voted, you said that you had suspicions before that, where are those? Also if you were really interested in defending yourself, you'd link or quote your post, not tell me to go look for it. Especially when we're as pressed for time as this.
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 05:15:58 pm
The second paragraph is the first reason I suspected him, the reason I asked the bandwagon question. Then reinforced when he refused to take the vote off.
Imperial Guardsman:
You're acting quite suspicious to me. When asked about being a pro-town you give decent reasons but when asked about your actions as scum you give mathematician's answer.
You also insist on keeping your vote on scientist, despite your initial reason being "join the danged discussion" and your reason for keeping the vote after he did being "not good enough".
Your answer to my last question is also suspicious, not giving reasons for why would you suspect the last 3 players on a bandwagon. It seems like you're trying to divert attention from the fact that you voted second for scientist (even if the first was just a pressure vote) and that the middle of the bandwagon is the least noticeable and therefore the most preferible place for scum.
Third paragraph is the reason I suspected the answer he gave to my question.
First paragraph was why I had to look back at his posts. I didn't figure it out at first, but then I looked at the type of questions he was answering.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 05:44:53 pm
That answer your question, Mastah?
Post by: Solymr on February 24, 2014, 05:58:35 pm
You shouldn't think only how a scum player would play but also how a town player would. Maybe the fact that scum would use good reasoning doesn't mean that townies can't.
I'm going to request a Extend because I don't want any surprises when I wake up.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 24, 2014, 06:12:31 pm
You shouldn't think only how a scum player would play but also how a town player would. Maybe the fact that scum would use good reasoning doesn't mean that townies can't.The only reason you would have to actively think about how town would play is if you aren't town!
And you're starting to take a bit of a hostile tone, to me.
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on February 24, 2014, 06:18:46 pm
And on that note, IG: what's your opinion on the goings-on of today?Chaotic.BorschtPost coming up.
Imperial Guardsman: You've got two people voting you, how do you feel about that? What are your thoughts?
Mastacheese. I feel fine, its RVS, Day 1, the 2 votes dont matter, and I will point out any bandwagons against me.
Post by: Persus13 on February 24, 2014, 06:30:06 pm
Imperial Guardsman- Solymr, MOWE
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- Caz
Solymr- Mastahcheese, 4maskwolf
Tiruin- notquitethere
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- TDS, SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+
1 votes to Extend
1 votes to Shorten
Day 1 will end on February 24th at 11:00 PM EST. (About 4.5 hours from now)
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 06:56:58 pm
So far, all the suspicion comes from the assumption that I would bus on the first day. I wouldn't. It's a terrible idea.I never said town can't use good reasoning. If they couldn't, the game would be so much more simple. What I'm saying is that you are THINKING LIKE A SCUM WOULD.
You shouldn't think only how a scum player would play but also how a town player would. Maybe the fact that scum would use good reasoning doesn't mean that townies can't.
I'm going to request a Extend because I don't want any surprises when I wake up.
I think I have the scumteam:
DP: Why have you hardly posted at all? The only things that you have said are highly suspicious: are you trying to avoid the questions by passive lurking?
IG: Why do your posts contain little to no substance? There are no questions to anyone else since the first round of questions, just responses to others. Why?
Solmyr: You are on your first game, yet you seem to have a fairly good grasp of the game. You have answered every question until the recent ones with fairly well thought-out answers. Why have you presented what you would do as scum in several places? Particularly things that you could well have done/be doing?
I'm voting for Imperial Guardsman because his answers seemed suspicious. He went on the defensive pretty fast when asked about that particular question, and his last vote makes me think that he realized we're onto him and he gave up.IG was under pretty heavy fire, though not immediate lynching from most people. Who's to say you didn't panic? I did my first game, as town cop. Afterwards, I realized my mistake, but it was too late. How do we know that isn't what's happening now?
I'll be asleep when the day ends, so if someone wants to point out a different explanation for IG's answers other than he's scum, please do so.
And answering to that question, if a scumbuddy made a mistake I caught, first I would point him out on it IN PRIVATE, so maybe he has time to make up a reasonable excuse. I wouldn't point it out in public unless everyone is already deciding to lynch him. To be fair I have no idea what could I do in that situation to try and save his ass without looking scummy.
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2014, 08:11:31 pm
Tiruin
Borscht is good, a post with content would be better.BorschtPost coming up.
Caz
Did you read the flavour text more carefully this time? I'm still getting flashbacks of you claiming Loyalist about 3 times and we still failed to lynch you. What a terrible game.Hah, yeah, I know what my alignment is and I'm not about to get anything muddled up. This stuff is easy when you're town.
Cheese
Everyone who has cast their vote: I want you to please restate why you are voting the person you are voting, and don't quote yourself from an earlier time.Tiruin has provided no content all day. All she's done is ask a handful of not-terribly-enlightening questions. Today is the lynch with the lowest cost and it behooves us to get rid of the most useless player at this point. I can't believe there's so many players that haven't cast a vote. Discounting the newer players that don't know better, there's plenty that should know by now that the lynch is the weapon of town and not using it is to self-declare as scum.
notquitethere: What do your "methods" that you were advertising tell you so far? Anything useful?Typically, scum don't like to use their vote much and they hate shifting it when they do vote. I'd be looking at lynching one of the non-voters. My fuller analysis comes in to full force on Day 2.
MOWE, Solymyr, IG, as vote leader, unvoted and shortened. He could be voting someone else to break the tie and remove the danger of himself being lynched. Does that look like the actions of a person who's receiving advice from someone in a private chat?
Scientist, isn't IG behaving just like you did in that game we played in a year ago January?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:18:58 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:22:08 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 24, 2014, 08:37:41 pm
Really though, I have theories as to why this stuff is the case, but it is just a brute fact of voting data: overall, the highest poster in a game is nearly always town; players that vote the most are most often town; players that make an RVS vote and stick to it with little justification are most often scum or inexperienced new players.
Also, NQT: IIRC, you didn't do this much explaining during Smstr W/ Love. Is it because that was a bastard game or because there are a lot of beginners or fairly new players here?No, just because that was a bastard game with no clear wincons. I'm usually play quite forthrightly, trying to get everyone to play to the best of their abilities.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:58:38 pm
It's about risk and proactivity, Wolf. Scum are between the risks of posting too much and slipping up, and not posting enough and being called out on it. This tends to put them in the mid-range of post, just above inexperienced players that don't know what they should be doing. At the same time, good town players proactively search out scum. This leads them to have higher post counts and a greater likelihood of switching their vote as their reads shift. Scum typically see vote-switching as risky, as each vote has to be justified and that justification can't flow naturally from an honest appraisal of the situation. The thing is, it's easier to town-hunt than scum-hunt. I'm pretty sure IG and DarkPaladin are just poor town players; Solymr has the highest post-count and has also cast a vote, so is the most likely to be competent town.I see what you are saying. Also, given the number of newer players here, there are fewer people who are likely to have practiced hiding their scum nature.
Really though, I have theories as to why this stuff is the case, but it is just a brute fact of voting data: overall, the highest poster in a game is nearly always town; players that vote the most are most often town; players that make an RVS vote and stick to it with little justification are most often scum or inexperienced new players.Also, NQT: IIRC, you didn't do this much explaining during Smstr W/ Love. Is it because that was a bastard game or because there are a lot of beginners or fairly new players here?No, just because that was a bastard game with no clear wincons. I'm usually play quite forthrightly, trying to get everyone to play to the best of their abilities.
Unvote. Don't think I've forgotten you, Solymr, nor am I just following NQT's lead. I looked back through your posts and found this:
I was suspecting IG before I made that question. In fact I made it to see if the answer would make me suspect him further. It did, I wasn't really sure what it was, but when I noticed it I had already gone to sleep.While the grammar isn't the best, I can't fault you for that because English is a second language to you. This post seems exactly like something that a very honest townie would say, and if you were a beginner scum I don't think you would have answered that. I could be underestimating you, but you're off the hook for now.
MastahCheese: Why have you been so aggressive in attacking Solymr?
TDS: You have been somewhat active at the beginning, but have yet to cast your vote. Why?
NQT: While I understand the idea behind lynching Tiruin, I don't think that she is scum for a couple of reasons:
1. While she has been on a little bit recently, she has been missing a lot of time due to no fault of her own.
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 09:08:29 pm
Also, Extend, I need more time to deliberate.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 24, 2014, 09:19:26 pm
TDS: You have been somewhat active at the beginning, but have yet to cast your vote. Why?
Two reasons: I haven't been able to post until now, and also people just don't seem as scummy as certain others think. For example, Solymr just seems new; the mistakes he makes are from not knowing how play town well, not from being scum. IG seems to have little in the way of self-preservation, which matches town play much more than scum play.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 09:20:26 pm
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 24, 2014, 09:39:14 pm
You missed my general question. Eleven minutes after it was posted.
Oops, sorry.
My list:
4maskwolf: He's active and tries to get discussion going. Town lean, but this is not certain.
IG: I'm not sure; very slight town lean.
Mastahcheese: Slight scum lean for the way he's going after Solymr. There's a reason there, but he's taking it as a worse scumtell than it should be.
NQT: Null read. He hasn't said much, and the things he's said don't give me much of a read.
Caz: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
SBC: Slight scum/neutral lean due to even more lurking than Caz.
DP109: Scum lean from his posts combined with how new he is. Of course, he has a neutral lean, too, since he has said that he wants to stay out of the way.
Solymr: Slight scum lean, but I think he's mostly just an inexperienced player.
Tiruin: Null read due to excused inactivity.
MOWE: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
+!!scientist!!+- Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
No lynch: Not actually a player.
All the "Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking" people are just the ones that haven't really said anything in the last several pages. They are probably more likely neutral than scum, though, because the scum want mislynches while the neutrals have much more specific targets.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 09:48:14 pm
Interesting. I suppose I'll post mine:You missed my general question. Eleven minutes after it was posted.
Oops, sorry.
My list:
4maskwolf: He's active and tries to get discussion going. Town lean, but this is not certain.
IG: I'm not sure; very slight town lean.
Mastahcheese: Slight scum lean for the way he's going after Solymr. There's a reason there, but he's taking it as a worse scumtell than it should be.
NQT: Null read. He hasn't said much, and the things he's said don't give me much of a read.
Caz: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
SBC: Slight scum/neutral lean due to even more lurking than Caz.
DP109: Scum lean from his posts combined with how new he is. Of course, he has a neutral lean, too, since he has said that he wants to stay out of the way.
Solymr: Slight scum lean, but I think he's mostly just an inexperienced player.
Tiruin: Null read due to excused inactivity.
MOWE: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
+!!scientist!!+- Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
No lynch: Not actually a player.
All the "Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking" people are just the ones that haven't really said anything in the last several pages. They are probably more likely neutral than scum, though, because the scum want mislynches while the neutrals have much more specific targets.
TDS: neutral read: doesn't start many discussions, but isn't lurking and hasn't done anything scummy. Answers all questions with enough information.
IG: A day ago, I would have said strong scum, but only slight scum lean due to his shorten vote. Ugly?
Mastah:Neutral: is pressing Solymr hard without a strong enough case, but at least he's active
NQT: Slight town because of the way he's been trying to move things along, but not particularly active unless prompted either. Could be third party?
Caz: Slight scum, lurking
SBC: Null, has hardly said anything
DP109: Scum lean, but not conclusive. The Bad trying to avoid notice?
Solymr: Slight scum for reasons stated
Tiruin: Null
MOWE: Slight scum read due to obvious lurking: has been posting on other parts of this forum
Flaming Scientist: Slight scum, lurking
No lynch: Has not said anything this game, requesting a prod to be sent out.
Post by: Persus13 on February 24, 2014, 11:01:33 pm
Imperial Guardsman- Solymr, MOWE
Mastahcheese-
TheDarkStar-
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- Caz
Solymr- Mastahcheese
Tiruin- notquitethere
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- TDS, SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman
2 votes to Extend
1 votes to Shorten
The debate raged long that day, and grew very heated over the question of whether or not to kill Imperial Guardsman. When the Union officer came back, they had decided. Imperial Guardsman would be the one to die. A squad of Union soldiers took him away, and gunshots could be heard.
Then the Union Officer came back. "We found this in his tent," the officer stated, throwing a Confederate uniform on the ground. "Looks like you found yourselves one of our saboteurs. Guards! Take these men to their tents."
Imperial Guardsman has been lynched! He was a Confederate Soldier.
Night has fallen. If you have a Night action, send it in soon.
Post by: Persus13 on February 25, 2014, 11:05:30 pm
"It seems that someone decided that this man should be killed off tonight. I have inspected his belongings, and it appears he was a simple Union Soldier. God rest his soul."
After making the remaining ten of you dig a grave for TheDarkStar, the Union Officer said "which one of you will die today?"
D2 has begun and will end Friday, February 28 at 11:00 PM EST.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:07:32 pm
Late in the night came the sound of gunshots, and running men. That morning the officer marched you onto the parade ground. Lying their was the body of TheDarkStar.Wait... 12-1-1 is 10... Is that a math mistake?
"It seems that someone decided that this man should be killed off tonight. I have inspected his belongings, and it appears he was a simple Union Soldier. God rest his soul."
After making the remaining 9 of you dig a grave for TheDarkStar, the Union Officer said "which one of you will die today?"
D1 has begun and will end Friday, February 28 at 11:00 PM EST.
Post by: Persus13 on February 25, 2014, 11:09:42 pm
I can't count.Late in the night came the sound of gunshots, and running men. That morning the officer marched you onto the parade ground. Lying their was the body of TheDarkStar.Wait... 12-1-1 is 10... Is that a math mistake?
"It seems that someone decided that this man should be killed off tonight. I have inspected his belongings, and it appears he was a simple Union Soldier. God rest his soul."
After making the remaining 9 of you dig a grave for TheDarkStar, the Union Officer said "which one of you will die today?"
D1 has begun and will end Friday, February 28 at 11:00 PM EST.
Post by: TheDarkStar on February 25, 2014, 11:14:50 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:22:22 pm
Everyone: What are your analyses of the game so far? My analysis is thus:
The bad is absent: there was only one nightkill, and it is more likely that a single player is absent than for both remaining scum to be gone.
Mastahcheese is probably not union: he was pressing Solymr far too hard over a small issue that didn't make any sense to me. However, seeing as how half of the current players are non-union, that doesn't tell us anything: statistically, he could be a third party trying too hard to seem town. He's about as new as I am, I wouldn't eliminate the possiblity.
This game has too many lurkers: any one of them could have initiated the kill that struck down our faithful companion TDS. That means you, Scientist, SBC, Tiruin. However, I reserve my vote for the final lurker: DarkPaladin109. I have seen you on this subforum, I know you're out there. Yet you chose not to post anything of any substance. Why? Because nobody bothered to try and get you lynched?
NQT: Why Tiruin, of all people? Yes, she was among the more experienced lurkers, but she was also the one with the RL excuse to not be here. I'm not entirely sure what's going on right now with her, but what specifically drew your attention to her over, say, SBC, who lurked even more.
Speaking of which, has SBC been seen around recently?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:26:28 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:28:02 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:30:07 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:34:25 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on February 25, 2014, 11:35:13 pm
I hope to be able to contribute more, but right now I don't even have time to read through those pages.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 25, 2014, 11:36:42 pm
Sorry, I've been busy for Science olympiad, and will continue being busy till Sunday.That's unfortunate, but RL comes first. Good luck in your endeavors.
I hope to be able to contribute more, but right now I don't even have time to read through those pages.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 26, 2014, 12:08:15 am
In the meantime:So far, I'm still waiting on everyone to answer my questions, people need to get in here. I'm going to have to look back to see who had a case on DarkStar.
Everyone: What are your analyses of the game so far?
Mastahcheese: Care to explain why you pushed Solymr so hard? Do you truly believe that he would bus a comrade in no danger of an actual lynch? Or is there something else you have against him, or was it a ploy to try to get your scumbuddy out of danger?I'm pushing him hard because it's called scumhunting. People were complaining about Day 1 being nothing but "debate", so I stepped it up. You even agreed with me earlier, until you started to blindly follow NQT, based on his methods.
Speaking of which, what's up with your blatant abuse of multi-posting? Trying to pad your post count?
And yeah, I think that if he slipped up, he'd follow through out of panic. It wouldn't be the first time someone's cracked under pressure, you of all people know that.
Superblackcat
Sorry, I've been busy for Science olympiad, and will continue being busy till Sunday.Well, hopefully you can make some time, here, I'll even give you the questions I'm waiting on from you.
I hope to be able to contribute more, but right now I don't even have time to read through those pages.
Everyone who has not yet cast their vote: If you were forced to vote someone, who would it be? Why?Well, those don't look so hard.
Superblackcat: Where are you? You've not been around much.
Everyone else
DarkStar is dead. What are your thoughts on this? What are all of your reads so far?
Post by: mastahcheese on February 26, 2014, 12:28:45 am
Currently, I'm confused about why multiple people are seriously considering lynching IG. NQT's argument is that IG won't seriously answer a question, and Solymr doesn't like the answer that IG gave for another question. NQT's argument would work with other evidence, but Solymr's argument makes no sense. If IG was scum, he'd probably give a more detailed scum answer than town answer, since he would have spent much more time thinking about what to do as scum than town.It seems to me like he had his suspicions on Solymr. I could go back to my argument of the possibility of Solymr being scum, and offing him to get rid of the only person other than me to have suspicions on him, since just killing me would too obvious of a scumtell. But then again, it also seems like the sort of thing that scum would set up to frame him with, knowing that I'm going after him...
I going to give you the benefit of a doubt on this one, Solymr, I don't think you did it. But I'm still watching you.
He also showed a FOS on DarkPaladin. But he never voted in either event. I'm not sure how to take this yet, as if it were DP, it would make more sense to go after someone else, since DarkStar was far from the only one to point a finger at him. Unless that's the whole reason behind it. Could also have been someone trying to set something up? Not sure.In general, lurking is a bad idea. If you're quiet, you don't have a say on what happens because you never say anything. Also, it can be seen as being scum - scum tend to not want to be noticed. In general, it's a good idea to be active.[Why are you planning to be cautious and hidden?I want to stay safe.
So yeah, darkpaladin109 for scummy play. I'm not voting quite yet, though.
Probably the best evidence we could use from DarkStar, however, is the fact that he was kind enough to give us his reads.
My list:The simple fact is that he didn't really form much of a case on anyone, but there has to be some kind of a connection.
4maskwolf: He's active and tries to get discussion going. Town lean, but this is not certain.
IG: I'm not sure; very slight town lean.
Mastahcheese: Slight scum lean for the way he's going after Solymr. There's a reason there, but he's taking it as a worse scumtell than it should be.
NQT: Null read. He hasn't said much, and the things he's said don't give me much of a read.
Caz: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
SBC: Slight scum/neutral lean due to even more lurking than Caz.
DP109: Scum lean from his posts combined with how new he is. Of course, he has a neutral lean, too, since he has said that he wants to stay out of the way.
Solymr: Slight scum lean, but I think he's mostly just an inexperienced player.
Tiruin: Null read due to excused inactivity.
MOWE: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
+!!scientist!!+- Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
No lynch: Not actually a player.
All the "Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking" people are just the ones that haven't really said anything in the last several pages. They are probably more likely neutral than scum, though, because the scum want mislynches while the neutrals have much more specific targets.
Another question for everyone:
What are your thoughts on DarkStar's reads? Do you have anything else of importance to add to the investigation?
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 02:03:24 am
This game has too many lurkers: any one of them could have initiated the kill that struck down our faithful companion TDS. That means you, Scientist, SBC, Tiruin.I have no comment for this, and will not defend myself--only against the label of being a lurker. 'Stuff' happened in my life as of recent note hence my lacking online activity (ie 2 day absence despite yesterday being my free day) and..I am unsure whether to bring it into full view. RL stuffs, is all I can say.
DAY 1 STUFF
4mask
Tiruin: You are the ugly, and are suspected as a confederate. How do you diffuse suspicion?I'll take it this is a D2 thing, yes?
I will diffuse it at best by not going against the speaker, directly, as it can either be an inspector, or a liar. In the note of a '7 are Union soldiers, 3 are Confederate Saboteurs, and 3 are third parties.' the belief behind such a suspicion is more solid than anything else, especially by a claimed inspect (however you didn't type this out).
However, I say it will be most subjective, both the situation and my response--I usually lay out details, and counterpoint, as a general rule. I never go directly against a statement unless I identify something seriously awry with it.
Mr. Cheese
Tiruin: You're the Bad, and the Good is dead. Someone claims Union General, and says that another person is a Confederate, but they don't get lynched by making the argument that they are the Ugly. Instead, the person claiming Union General gets lynched, and is proven to have told the truth. What do you do, and why?I flail in joy like a muppet. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_w4oSCJIQk)
Opportunistic semblance to personal reaction aside, I am a Union SK. I do as I said above, but to myself IRL and not in thread-post. I will..well, depending on the situation I either delve into it and check on what the rest are doing, leave those claimants to stew among their fates and act as a bystander-prosecutor or base my proceedings on what had just happened.
I...do not work well with general statements (pun not intended), but require a specific situation.
Query: Why pull a neutral role in sucha situation? What were you thinking about me when you asked me this?
NQT
Tiruin — What's a good reason to lynch somebody today?Information and their strings attached. I do have a better detailed answer however.
I wonder why you ask me this? What is your opinion and what is your reason for a lynch?
In this note: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5026057#msg5026057) I'm a Mafia Philosopher. :I I said in regard to what you said in your 'preamble' here is a bad thing due to the translation of qualitative to quantitative and back. It is in the discernment of how you use that method and NOT the method itself that I disliked. Remember the first time you pulled that vote pattern? When you were Mafia-I didn't like how you used it then (back in a game when...Masons and Mafias? I think?)
As for your question: do you mean my little introductory speech? It wasn't that subtle: I outright stated I was a unionist. I enjoy a little bit of light roleplaying to set the mood; I listen to my Spaghetti Western playlist (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6GByhL-XeI&list=PLnvoeKa8s27895pzX85HX_hl5ioXOxdGZ&shuffle=346) too.Hmm, reasonable. Well, to me, it seems like subtle insinuation of your intent or role-designed as a subconscious effect. I can also pull my best Union story but what I got as a role PM, being me...is horribly short. Grr @Persus. :I
Anyway, why did you outright state that?
Scientist
Trirruin- how much do you hate it when I misspell your name?[/b]Hate is such an irrelevant word, sir. I do not hate, I am irritate.
Fancy wording aside, I hold no malice towards those who get my [details] wrong, since I can usually always sense if mistake or intentional. Here? You're being silly. So rawr. :I
Why post an irrelevant question to me? Or do designedly deign to discern my disposition towards your dubious dictation?
Mehve/MOWE
Tiruin:Mostly personal organization. What hit me from not posting here (as well as more prioritized threads like my own BM and other stuffs) was my emotional state. It was...not good. However I will state in all honesty and be open to all scrutiny when I say that I was not intentionally staying away from this thread (I mean, wow. A whole mafia day. x__x Goodness.)
You've been active on the forum, but not here. Any particular reason why?
...So no particular reason why, which is directly related to Mafia.
Mr. Cheese
Tiruin: You need to stop delaying, Borscht or not. What are your reads so far? And if you would explain the reasons for your reads?I fail to make a miswording of something funny. As for reads-they were all neutral at the time of my last post with subtle curiosity regarding IG on the skim, NQT for his 'self-claim' as an introductory post, Interest at Solymyr for being new and able to explain himself thoroughly--all neutral reads, but all curious.
Meaning: No I have no read, and I do apologize for my effort. I shouldn't have been weak. I should've posted here. I am sorry.
Reason @above: Skimming, yet I also connected the cause to effect, though my reads are more influenced if I put my weight behind them (or if what I observe their actions are, have good 'emphasis' into them).
And for this delaying note, I do see that you put that as a subtle-aggressive-prod, yes? I was not delaying, however.
I have finished my read and curiosity grows when encountering posts around the 150th mark. Too vague to mark down, but I wll return soonish.
4mask
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?...I made one post. Really? You can find wrong when there is only one point to base it on?
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 26, 2014, 01:52:38 pm
DP: Why have you hardly posted at all? The only things that you have said are highly suspicious: are you trying to avoid the questions by passive lurking?I couldn't post replies here yesterday, and I couldn't acess the forums earlier today due to some bug.
Post by: Solymr on February 26, 2014, 02:05:16 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 26, 2014, 02:37:01 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 26, 2014, 02:43:10 pm
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 26, 2014, 02:44:52 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2014, 02:49:09 pm
Dammit, I'm gonna fix that quote right now.Editing posts afterwards isn't allowed and is explicitly mentioned in the OP.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 26, 2014, 02:59:45 pm
Spoiler: RANT >:( (click to show/hide)
Post by: Persus13 on February 26, 2014, 03:09:49 pm
Yes, and because it wasn't that big of a deal and because you're new, I'm only telling you instead of it being a consequence. But imagine if you were actually trying to cover up something you thought made you seem scummy, and claimed you were only fixing a quote tag. Next time this happens, just repost the post with the problem fixed, say it is an Edit By Way Of Post (EBWOP), and you'll be fine.Spoiler: RANT >:( (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solymr on February 26, 2014, 03:14:42 pm
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2014, 04:08:45 pm
Tiruin
Day 1, due to lack of evidence, is a great time to get rid of dead-weight. You contributed least yesterday and so were the ideal candidate for a dead-weight lynch. We lucked out though: I convinced Wolf that Solymr was least likely to be scum and he unvoted, breaking the tie and Scum-IG got lynched.Tiruin — What's a good reason to lynch somebody today?Information and their strings attached. I do have a better detailed answer however.
I wonder why you ask me this? What is your opinion and what is your reason for a lynch?
I asked you this because I wanted a genuine answer. What counts as sufficient grounds for a lynch? You gave me nothing then and you're still giving me nothing.
In this note: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5026057#msg5026057) I'm a Mafia Philosopher. :I I said in regard to what you said in your 'preamble' here is a bad thing due to the translation of qualitative to quantitative and back. It is in the discernment of how you use that method and NOT the method itself that I disliked. Remember the first time you pulled that vote pattern? When you were Mafia-I didn't like how you used it then (back in a game when...Masons and Mafias? I think?)I said Psephologist, which is different. What do you mean by "due to the translation of qualitative to quantitative and back"? I've used this vote analysis stuff when playing as scum, sure, but as I said in my post then, I'm always honest in my presentation of the results. Remember in BYOR when you and Shake were my scumbuddies? My analysis showed that you two were scummy and I was happy to present it to the rest of town.
Hmm, reasonable. Well, to me, it seems like subtle insinuation of your intent or role-designed as a subconscious effect. I can also pull my best Union story but what I got as a role PM, being me...is horribly short. Grr @Persus. :IAs I said, I wanted to set the mood with a tiny bit of roleplaying. I often do it in my initial post of the day. Don't you recall the roleplaying in Witches?
Anyway, why did you outright state that?
I also, in my first post, said this:
So I want all of you (well, all us unionists at any rate) to pay attention to lurkers and players going along with weak cases and, especially, lurkers with weak cases.
You're a lurker with no cases; and unfortunately for the unionists you're not the only one.
Wolf
NQT: While I understand the idea behind lynching Tiruin, I don't think that she is scum for a couple of reasons:
1. While she has been on a little bit recently, she has been missing a lot of time due to no fault of her own.
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?
NQT: Why Tiruin, of all people? Yes, she was among the more experienced lurkers, but she was also the one with the RL excuse to not be here. I'm not entirely sure what's going on right now with her, but what specifically drew your attention to her over, say, SBC, who lurked even more.No, she just didn't post anything worthwhile and I consider Day 1 the ideal time to get rid of non-participating players. Perhaps I was wrong: after all, it was IG who was lynched in the end and he was scum and clearly Solymr and MOWE saw this (I don't consider bussing a likely strategy when there were clear alternatives). SBC lurked too (hell, there's too many lurkers in this game) and, now I look back, perhaps he was worse because while he posted slightly more than Tiruin he posted nothing of substance. He'd have been an equally fine candidate for my vote yesterday.
Really though, with plenty of time left in the day I put a pressure vote on Tiruin to entreat her to post something, she didn't and so I was strongly obligated to keep my vote on her. About when I last posted the only other vote candidates were people I didn't think were scum, so there was no point changing my mind then.
Everyone: What are your analyses of the game so far?Incoming, very soon. Got to read back!
My analysis is thus:I think it more likely that it is scum that is absent, given that Darkstar was essentially harmless to scum— he cast no votes and had no strong suspicions.
The bad is absent: there was only one nightkill, and it is more likely that a single player is absent than for both remaining scum to be gone.
Mastahcheese is probably not union: he was pressing Solymr far too hard over a small issue that didn't make any sense to me. However, seeing as how half of the current players are non-union, that doesn't tell us anything: statistically, he could be a third party trying too hard to seem town. He's about as new as I am, I wouldn't eliminate the possiblity.I'll look over this. Weak cases are suspicious, no cases when a town player is about to be lynched is very suspicious, and cases against someone who later turns out to be critical in lynching scum are moderately suspicious.
Cheese
Everyone elseReads and thought are upcoming in my Day 2 analysis post. Which is coming... imminently.
DarkStar is dead. What are your thoughts on this? What are all of your reads so far?
Post by: Caz on February 26, 2014, 04:12:10 pm
Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?He's dead Jim. Are you pretending to pay less attention than you actually are?
Skimmed replies but no will to form a post. Will try to later.
Post by: Solymr on February 26, 2014, 04:33:03 pm
Don't think I've forgotten you either. I suspect you of trying to defend IG by pressuring and attacking me.
Tiruin:
Your flavor is really good, you should post it.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2014, 06:45:27 pm
4maskwolfErm...In the meantime:So far, I'm still waiting on everyone to answer my questions, people need to get in here. I'm going to have to look back to see who had a case on DarkStar.
Everyone: What are your analyses of the game so far?Mastahcheese: Care to explain why you pushed Solymr so hard? Do you truly believe that he would bus a comrade in no danger of an actual lynch? Or is there something else you have against him, or was it a ploy to try to get your scumbuddy out of danger?I'm pushing him hard because it's called scumhunting. People were complaining about Day 1 being nothing but "debate", so I stepped it up. You even agreed with me earlier, until you started to blindly follow NQT, based on his methods.
Speaking of which, what's up with your blatant abuse of multi-posting? Trying to pad your post count?
And yeah, I think that if he slipped up, he'd follow through out of panic. It wouldn't be the first time someone's cracked under pressure, you of all people know that.
Okay, there are a few things I want to answer in this post. The first is this: Yes, it is scumhunting. He also did nothing scummy except vote for a scum. He just had the misfortune of being the first to respond to your questions. Also, I notice that you left MOWE out of the question list that time: care to explain?
I was not blindly following NQT: I put no stock whatsoever in his "method". I don't think that post count means much, as clever scum could manipulate that as easily as everything else. I already admitted that because it was day 1, I merely skimmed the last part of the conversation before making my assessment. However, upon closer inspection and getting to an actual computer, I realized that Solymr had said precious little to warrant an attack like that and had answered the questions reasonably, by my metric.
The multi-post is called Posting while Tired. You are on the dwarf fortress forums, you know that I post things when I think of them, not caring about the number of posts in a row by me there are.
Tiruin:
Quote
4mask... What in all flavor of damnation... I was making a point as to why I didn't think that you were scum...
Quote from: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:58:38 pm
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?
...I made one post. Really? You can find wrong when there is only one point to base it on?
NQT:
I didn't cast my vote because I had no idea who to vote for. IG was acting weirdly, and DP was lurking and saying suspicious things, but there were two reasons I didn't act on that:
1. IG didn't try to save himself at all. Now I see he was trying to salvage the situation and take the pressure off himself, but at the time it left me scratching my head.
2. DP is on his first game, and I'm the type of person who feels really bad about, say, destroying someone at chess the first time they play. I wanted to give him a chance to learn a bit instead of lynching him day 1. Perhaps it's too sentimental of me, but that's who I am.
More when I get back, I have to go now.
Post by: notquitethere on February 26, 2014, 06:53:01 pm
My preliminary reads, in rough order
Probably not a Confederate
Solymr: Pivotal in lynching IG, had highest post count yesterday
MOWE: Didn't do a whole lot yesterday but was critical in lynching IG
4maskwolf: His unvote of Soly was required for IG to be lynched, also he's very engaged
Mastahcheese: Tried to get Solymr lynched, but at least he voted!
---
Caz: Seemed to have been particularly disappointed in IG's giving up (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037179#msg5037179), didn't seem to care that IG gave him a complete non-answer.
DarkP: Only contribution to the game is their stated desire to remain 'hidden'.
+!!scientist!!+- Talked an OK game until the 22nd and then completely disappeared
Tiruin: Completely useless on Day 1, but probably due to RL stuff, am waiting to see if they put in some effort today
SBC: Seems pretty busy with Olympiad stuff but has been completely and utterly useless all Day 1
Why aren't they dead already?
My usual vote analysis is way off-kilt because there's too many new-players who don't care enough about using their vote.
Tiruin You knew you weren't going to have time to post questions, why didn't you extend?
Caz
Does this vote give you the will to post? Care to explain why you thought that this was an an acceptable answer?
Imperial Guardsman - You are scum and one of your buddies makes an error that you catch. Do you bring it up and draw attention to them or let it slide?Yes.
He's dead Jim. Are you pretending to pay less attention than you actually are?No, I copied and pasted the names and forgot to omit that one.
Wolf I'm not too sore about your lack of voting: you had cast one earlier in the game, and when you were the last to post you could only have made a tie or reinforced IG's lynch (which is something that scum sometimes do: appear to bus when there's no possible way of saving their buddy).
Post by: Silthuri on February 26, 2014, 10:05:13 pm
Tiruin:
Everyone else: Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?Well I think D1 can be a bunch of debate. What else could it be? Lies are easy to keep to in the beginning, but are hard to maintain over time. Here's where we begin testing the mettle of the scum and seeing how good they are at acting. There is no such thing as perfect. The scumteam may know how to avoid most scumtells, but odds are they'll slip up somewhere.
How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?[/b]
Scummy players also have a norm I would guess. Even if they're scummy as town, I'd expect the scumminess when they're actually scum to be quite different. If they're good at hiding scumtells, well like I said, they have to slip up sometime.
Mehve/MOWEWhat's the "Mehve" about?Tiruin:Mostly personal organization. What hit me from not posting here (as well as more prioritized threads like my own BM and other stuffs) was my emotional state. It was...not good. However I will state in all honesty and be open to all scrutiny when I say that I was not intentionally staying away from this thread (I mean, wow. A whole mafia day. x__x Goodness.)
You've been active on the forum, but not here. Any particular reason why?
...So no particular reason why, which is directly related to Mafia.
And I think RL and having your own priorities are particular reasons. I hope things get better for you! :)
Mastahcheese:
Everyone who has cast their vote: I want you to please restate why you are voting the person you are voting, and don't quote yourself from an earlier time.I'm not sure if you still want an answer, but I'll give one anyway. I voted IG because he seemed like the scummiest person around. He gave virtually no explanation for his answers and even when I called him out on it, the explanations weren't very good. And then he got all defensive for no apparent reason over a question that didn't accuse him of anything.
Everyone elseSee my answer to wolf below.
DarkStar is dead. What are your thoughts on this? What are all of your reads so far?
My reads:
Wolf: Town; very active; appears to be aggressive; focusing a bit much on the lurkers, but that's understandable.
NQT: Town; somewhat active and I can't find anything about them that stands out.
Caz: Slight scum lean; hasn't really been around and hasn't posted anything really extensive.
Tiruin: Nothing yet; hasn't been around with good reason.
SBC: Again, nothing yet; hasn't been around much with good reason.
Scientist: Slight scum lean; quarreled with IG at the beginning, but disappeared afterwards.
Mastahcheese: Slight scum lean; seemed a bit too focused on Solymr for a few slips that didn't seem to constitute a vote.
Darkpaladin: Slight scum lean; had a few slips and suspicious things, but nothing to severe.
Solymr: Slight scum lean; also had a few slips, but that was probably due to English being their second language and just being new.
Probably the best evidence we could use from DarkStar, however, is the fact that he was kind enough to give us his reads.I think it's quite suspicious that TDS was night killed and he didn't seem like a threat to the scum. I think that's a big thing. It makes me wonder.My list:The simple fact is that he didn't really form much of a case on anyone, but there has to be some kind of a connection.
4maskwolf: He's active and tries to get discussion going. Town lean, but this is not certain.
IG: I'm not sure; very slight town lean.
Mastahcheese: Slight scum lean for the way he's going after Solymr. There's a reason there, but he's taking it as a worse scumtell than it should be.
NQT: Null read. He hasn't said much, and the things he's said don't give me much of a read.
Caz: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
SBC: Slight scum/neutral lean due to even more lurking than Caz.
DP109: Scum lean from his posts combined with how new he is. Of course, he has a neutral lean, too, since he has said that he wants to stay out of the way.
Solymr: Slight scum lean, but I think he's mostly just an inexperienced player.
Tiruin: Null read due to excused inactivity.
MOWE: Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
+!!scientist!!+- Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking.
No lynch: Not actually a player.
All the "Slight scum/neutral read due to lurking" people are just the ones that haven't really said anything in the last several pages. They are probably more likely neutral than scum, though, because the scum want mislynches while the neutrals have much more specific targets.
Another question for everyone:
What are your thoughts on DarkStar's reads? Do you have anything else of importance to add to the investigation?
As for him not having any reads on anyone, it's understandable. D1 for me is just mass confusion.
NQT:
MOWE, Solymyr, IG, as vote leader, unvoted and shortened. He could be voting someone else to break the tie and remove the danger of himself being lynched. Does that look like the actions of a person who's receiving advice from someone in a private chat?I definitely think it was a collaboration. I think there was a reason behind what he did, probably involving drawing attention away from his scum partners. Although he did mention that he thought that one or two votes in RVS doesn't matter. I think eventually he just gave up after the votes turned out to be more significant than what he'd originally thought.
Wolf:
Everyone: What are your analyses of the game so far?I'm wondering why there was just one kill last night. I think it's highly unlikely that all of those with a kill last night chose to kill the same person. I can understand the Good not killing randomly because from what I understand, they're not particularly evil. But it seems like the Bad, being "essentially a SK with an additional goal," would probably go for a kill each night. The scum, however, I'd always expect to be killing someone each night. As of right now, this is the only occurrence that has really caught my attention.
MOWE: You voted for IG and then disappeared off of the map. Why? Did you read the conversations that were had afterwards?I voted him for reasons stated earlier in my post. I disappeared because of things happening in my life. Like visiting my boyfriend, which I do every Sunday. And school and a shopping trip that kept me out until late Monday night. I posted in places requiring little to no thought when I could find the time.
I just read through the conversations. I didn't have time before. Hence why I didn't post here, although I doubt they'd have changed my thoughts on IG. Why do you ask?
All the lurkers: What do you think of how the game has progressed so far?I'm pretty cool with it. We lynched a confederate D1, which is a really good thing. Although there are more lurkers/absent people than I'd like.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2014, 10:28:29 pm
And MOWE, It's perfectly fine to have RL. RL comes first, and I'm sure I'll have to use the RL excuse sometime.
I honestly don't have much more to say, actually. I've made my moves, I'm now waiting for others to respond to them.
My reads, in case they matter:
MOWE: very little info to go on, but town because of lynch vote on IG
Tiruin: very little info to go on
SBC: very little info to go on
Caz: slight scum: has posted, but given no reason not to actually make a content post except "can't work up the energy".
NQT: I can't get a read on him. If I had to pick, I'd say town, but he's given me no real reason to suspect either way.
Scientist: very little to go on, has not posted much since the beginning
Mastahcheese: slight scum, pushed a bit too hard at Solymr, but nothing conclusive yet
Darkpaladin: has yet to make a post with any substance in it, despite having responded day 2. Moderate scum.
Solymr: slight town, the lynch on IG makes you a candidate for towniness
The fact that TDS was killed is unusual, and after hearing the points made by MOWE and NQT I have to agree: I think that the scum are either inactive or extremely new. A better kill target would have been NQT, myself, mastah, or Solymr: NQT because he's experienced and active, myself because I'm active, mastah because he's active, and Solymr because he's active. Additionally, all four of the players mentioned above had cast their lynch vote during the day, indicating they were playing aggressively.
NQT: Thinking things through, it is almost certain that one of the kill groups is inactive. Can you think of a rational explanation for why the scum would kill TDS, and if so, what is it?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2014, 10:30:53 pm
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 10:40:23 pm
NQT
Hey, handsome! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5041803#msg5041803) If you keep on misusing and abusing the term of 'lurker' to make yourself look more active than the rest of us, I am shocked and awed at your comprehension value to utterly miss one part that you keep on repeating against me.
But against that point:
TiruinI like how you suddenly turn passive aggressive in your dichtomy and wording here when talking to me. Given that you answer my question backwards, plus the abuse of 'lurker' status (Hey, if you were smart, you'd know I WAS AWAY FOR TWO DAYS, NOT ACTIVE LURKING. Hint hint: It is implied in my post that you quoted nicely there.)Day 1, due to lack of evidence, is a great time to get rid of dead-weight. You contributed least yesterday and so were the ideal candidate for a dead-weight lynch. We lucked out though: I convinced Wolf that Solymr was least likely to be scum and he unvoted, breaking the tie and Scum-IG got lynched.Tiruin — What's a good reason to lynch somebody today?Information and their strings attached. I do have a better detailed answer however.
I wonder why you ask me this? What is your opinion and what is your reason for a lynch?
I asked you this because I wanted a genuine answer. What counts as sufficient grounds for a lynch? You gave me nothing then and you're still giving me nothing.In this note: (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5026057#msg5026057) I'm a Mafia Philosopher. :I I said in regard to what you said in your 'preamble' here is a bad thing due to the translation of qualitative to quantitative and back. It is in the discernment of how you use that method and NOT the method itself that I disliked. Remember the first time you pulled that vote pattern? When you were Mafia-I didn't like how you used it then (back in a game when...Masons and Mafias? I think?)I said Psephologist, which is different. What do you mean by "due to the translation of qualitative to quantitative and back"? I've used this vote analysis stuff when playing as scum, sure, but as I said in my post then, I'm always honest in my presentation of the results. Remember in BYOR when you and Shake were my scumbuddies? My analysis showed that you two were scummy and I was happy to present it to the rest of town.Hmm, reasonable. Well, to me, it seems like subtle insinuation of your intent or role-designed as a subconscious effect. I can also pull my best Union story but what I got as a role PM, being me...is horribly short. Grr @Persus. :IAs I said, I wanted to set the mood with a tiny bit of roleplaying. I often do it in my initial post of the day. Don't you recall the roleplaying in Witches?
Anyway, why did you outright state that?
I also, in my first post, said this:So I want all of you (well, all us unionists at any rate) to pay attention to lurkers and players going along with weak cases and, especially, lurkers with weak cases.
You're a lurker with no cases; and unfortunately for the unionists you're not the only one.
But let's get into exacts, aye?
Quote
You contributed least yesterday and so were the ideal candidate for a dead-weight lynch. We lucked out though: I convinced Wolf that Solymr was least likely to be scum and he unvoted, breaking the tie and Scum-IG got lynched."Dead-weight lynch" <3
So you easily attribute a sense of absence to someone you'd prefer seeing lynched, mmm? Your statement of 'lucking out' doesn't seem to abridge that of scumhunting, rather following a policy on lynching those who won't participate!
Granted, I get the feel of you egging others on to go along the appeal of information rather than observing, listening then acting. No, you act first and listen later!
Quote
I asked you this because I wanted a genuine answer. What counts as sufficient grounds for a lynch? You gave me nothing then and you're still giving me nothing.So you don't consider my statement as something, huh?
Quote
Information and their strings attached.Is a general statement I counted towards it. I did mention I have a better detailed answer, yeah? Why didn't you talk about that and instead downplayed EVERYTHING I said, buddy?
The reason I withheld such is because the question you asked is pointed. Pointed meaning you asked this for good reason rather than any such RVS/Getting-to-know-you idea I could fathom as your intent. Why should I give you something, when my words are for the public notion, hm? NQT for Third-party president?
In lieu of this, I note a genuine lack of curiosity in you-rather a pointed and assertive manner of conduct in which you post. You seem to be acting less on principle and more of action. Fluffy action.
Quote
As I said, I wanted to set the mood with a tiny bit of roleplaying. I often do it in my initial post of the day. Don't you recall the roleplaying in Witches?That was totally different. Here, you explicitly talk about the Union with flavorful details. I was more curious when you singled me out and generalized my disposition towards your work without you yourself giving me leeway to explain myself in that post.
Hence my annoyance towards you that you like to conclude beforehand.
I also, in my first post, said this:And here I speak for the oppressed. You ABUSE the term of being a LURKER without doing ANY research on the people you judge to LABEL!So I want all of you (well, all us unionists at any rate) to pay attention to lurkers and players going along with weak cases and, especially, lurkers with weak cases.
You're a lurker with no cases; and unfortunately for the unionists you're not the only one.
If you paid ATTENTION, you would've noticed my absence was GENUINE. Bloody hell do you expect me to have a case when I'm absent.
Do you?
DO YOU?
Hah. Answer that snarkpants.
Quote
SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?Because I had a lacking read on anyone.
Surprising no?
Tiruin: Completely useless on Day 1, but probably due to RL stuff, am waiting to see if they put in some effort todayYou're intentionally being blind, aren't you? I specifically SAID it was RL stuff.
Edit: Oh damn this. LOOK BELOW FOR MY RL STUFF.
4mask
I know! ^_^ Hence my curiosity there.
Tiruin:Quote4mask... What in all flavor of damnation... I was making a point as to why I didn't think that you were scum...
Quote from: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:58:38 pm
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?
...I made one post. Really? You can find wrong when there is only one point to base it on?
You sound surprised?
More to the point: You didn't think I was scum due to my...what was it exactly?
PPE
MOWE
Tiruin: Nothing yet; hasn't been around with good reason.*Tiruin flips.
Spoiler: Part rant, part answer (click to show/hide)
PPE: ARGH PEOPLE.
Solymr, whom I misspell as Solymyr.
Tiruin:Really? I think this should be in another thraed unless you were talking about what I intend to put as flavor akin to my role.
Your flavor is really good, you should post it.
Well.
I am a draftee, really. A Soldier of the Union who was separated along with a group of others from the main army regiment a week or so before all this had happened--at this time, coincidentally, activity detrimental to the troop occurred in the form of saboteurs. Given my orders, despite lacking experience, yet diligent in duty, I myself am obligated to find these saboteurs.
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 10:47:45 pm
Also, Tiruin: I saw you on the RTD subforum. You said that something caught your curiosity: what was it?I have selective memory at the moment so I forgot. What was that something?
The fact that TDS was killed is unusual, and after hearing the points made by MOWE and NQT I have to agree: I think that the scum are either inactive or extremely new.Expound. How would that relate to who is killed?
MOWE IS BACK!!!!!::)
And MOWE, It's perfectly fine to have RL. RL comes first, and I'm sure I'll have to use the RL excuse sometime.
NQT: Thinking things through, it is almost certain that one of the kill groups is inactive. Can you think of a rational explanation for why the scum would kill TDS, and if so, what is it?You do know that people have a choice to kill or not, yes? Why address NQT only? Next, what are your thoughts on recent events?
MOWE
Tiruin:Hmm, interesting. You see this as a game of when people will slip and see differing mindset-actions according to role or alignment. Admirable.Everyone else: Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?Well I think D1 can be a bunch of debate. What else could it be? Lies are easy to keep to in the beginning, but are hard to maintain over time. Here's where we begin testing the mettle of the scum and seeing how good they are at acting. There is no such thing as perfect. The scumteam may know how to avoid most scumtells, but odds are they'll slip up somewhere.
How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?[/b]
Scummy players also have a norm I would guess. Even if they're scummy as town, I'd expect the scumminess when they're actually scum to be quite different. If they're good at hiding scumtells, well like I said, they have to slip up sometime.
What else can D1 be varies according to what the people put into it--the best way to aim is to follow it up, meaning rather than a debate of two specified fronts, it turns to a general attitude of discernment and curiosity. Which means a bunch of words to look back on.
Though I do agree with most here: how would you discern a town-slip from a scum-slip? Is it in their reaction, their response, or how they do so-or anything else?
Quote
It's...well, I thought of a way to pronounce your acronym'd name. So I looked in the German dictionary...-bloop-What's the "Mehve" about?
And I think RL and having your own priorities are particular reasons. I hope things get better for you! :)
Also...
Sorry for the rant...u_u
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 10:49:54 pm
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 10:55:45 pm
Tiruin:Why?
If you caught someone commiting a logical fallacy, would you try to get them lynched?
Anyone can commit a logical fallacy-sometimes due to stress, sometimes due to error, sometimes to not knowing what to do, sometimes due to grammatical purposes, and sometimes its just that a viewpoint of a person doesn't jive with the other in that it seems like a fallacy.
I will add pressure--look into the case, announce my intrigue, investigate the notion, check the statement, hypothesize the outcome, deliberate on the matter and talk to the person. But getting them lynched? That's a situational case based on after how my curiosity is satisfied.
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 10:57:59 pm
Another question for everyone:Well seeing TDS' own example-he usually mixes both town and scum, mostly always delivering his reads in all honesty to the viewer or asker unless there was an incentive to lie about it (due to the process of tracing and backtracking). I bring up my notes on TDS to help the idea.
What are your thoughts on DarkStar's reads? Do you have anything else of importance to add to the investigation?
...
...
Investigationwhatnow?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2014, 11:14:56 pm
NQT: Perhaps lynching so called "useless" people is the most EFFICIENT way to play mafia, but it sure as hell isn't going to be how I play. What I don't understand is why people having real life makes them useless. Perhaps if you'd had any facts against Tiruin, I would agree with you, but you DON'T. I may have to start a policy lynch of lynch all people who attack those with RL issues. Because this is a game, not a war, and in any face to face context what you have been saying about people (specifically Tiruin and, to a lesser extent, SBC) would NOT be acceptable.
... Sorry for the rant, guys, I've had a bad day and I feel really bad for Tiruin's family right now and the way NQT has phrased things has bugged me for a while now and I just snapped... my apologies...
But look. Tiruin has a major reason to be out right now. That does not mean we should policy lynch her.
SBC has a reason to be out right now. That does not mean that we should policy lynch him either.
Now. Let's focus on the people who CAN be in the game actively. Whether they do or don't play is the real issue. I'm looking at you, DP and Caz. If either of you two has an RL reason not to post, just say that RL is getting in the way, but don't just lurk.
And Tiruin: best of wishes to you and your family.
Post by: Tiruin on February 26, 2014, 11:25:47 pm
Tiruin: I think you have misinterpereted what I have said in the past....I was being sarcastic.
I know! ^_^ Hence my curiosity there.Quote4mask... What in all flavor of damnation... I was making a point as to why I didn't think that you were scum...
Quote from: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:58:38 pm
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?
...I made one post. Really? You can find wrong when there is only one point to base it on?
You sound surprised?
More to the point: You didn't think I was scum due to my...what was it exactly?
[/quote]Or was it this that you think I'm misinterpreting? Err, yeah..I guess so? I found it strange-not that strange but...strange-ish that the statement you put here goes more like an answer to a longer detail rather than one post.
NQT, on the other hand, apparently does not.I...don't not like him or vote him because of that thing on RL-it's his terminology and wording behind it, to clarify (based on what you say there?)
Also, why the tons of FoS' from you? Could I ask what benefit you see to FoS'ing people?
@NQT: [Query about not extending]
> I totally didn't see that 'day ends by x hours' note and thought it would continue and that I'd have enough time to check...
I didn't check, is what I mean by 'I didn't see.'
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 26, 2014, 11:30:33 pm
Or was it this that you think I'm misinterpreting? Err, yeah..I guess so? I found it strange-not that strange but...strange-ish that the statement you put here goes more like an answer to a longer detail rather than one post.Tiruin: I think you have misinterpereted what I have said in the past....I was being sarcastic.I know! ^_^ Hence my curiosity there.Quote4mask... What in all flavor of damnation... I was making a point as to why I didn't think that you were scum...
Quote from: 4maskwolf on February 24, 2014, 08:58:38 pm
2. Tiruin, while not posting anything particularly towny-esque, hasn't posted anything that I would consider a scumtell either. If there is something I missed with a cursory examination, could you link to it?
...I made one post. Really? You can find wrong when there is only one point to base it on?
You sound surprised?
More to the point: You didn't think I was scum due to my...what was it exactly?
NQT, on the other hand, apparently does not.I...don't not like him or vote him because of that thing on RL-it's his terminology and wording behind it, to clarify (based on what you say there?)
Also, why the tons of FoS' from you? Could I ask what benefit you see to FoS'ing people?
@NQT: [Query about not extending]
> I totally didn't see that 'day ends by x hours' note and thought it would continue and that I'd have enough time to check...
I didn't check, is what I mean by 'I didn't see.'
[/quote]
No no, I know what you are saying. I get you loud and clear. I don't like his wording either was my point, but when you said what was going on that ratcheted the level of not cool of his statements up an order of magnitude in my mind, which was what caused me to snap and rant...
The FoS's? I don't know, entirely. I read about them when signing up for your beginner mafia and use them mostly as a way to get peoples attention. It isn't a vote, but it seems to ensure that people don't miss things.
also, Extension so that SBC can finish what he's doing while having a chance to play
Post by: Silthuri on February 26, 2014, 11:45:09 pm
Tiruin: Rants are sometimes good for the soul. Directed at me or not, I don't mind.
Also, I Googled mehve before I asked you about it, and apparently it has something to do with jets and is also a website for manga and anime stuff... I actually pondered how I would be like a jet...
Extend.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 27, 2014, 12:46:18 am
Okay, there are a few things I want to answer in this post. The first is this: Yes, it is scumhunting. He also did nothing scummy except vote for a scum. He just had the misfortune of being the first to respond to your questions. [1] Also, I notice that you left MOWE out of the question list that time: care to explain?[1] The reason that MOWE was left out of the questions was because I had done so intentionally to see if they are actually paying attention. It's common knowledge that scum tend to pay less attention during games because they already know who is town, and don't have to look for clues. Why is it that you're pointing it out? Do you not feel that MOWE can answer for themselves?
I was not blindly following NQT: I put no stock whatsoever in his "method". I don't think that post count means much, as clever scum could manipulate that as easily as everything else. I already admitted that because it was day 1, I merely skimmed the last part of the conversation before making my assessment. However, upon closer inspection and getting to an actual computer, I realized that Solymr had said precious little to warrant an attack like that and had answered the questions reasonably, by my metric.
The multi-post is called Posting while Tired. [2] You are on the dwarf fortress forums, you know that I post things when I think of them, not caring about the number of posts in a row by me there are.
[2] I don't pay much attention to people's posting habits, but this is a game where people watch for that sort of thing, as part of their methods of finding scum. Yeah, it is easy to manipulate, and it's also easy to try and rationalize it while you're doing it.
notquitethere
everyone give your reads!I'm still awaiting your responses to my questions, NQT.
But I'll give you my reads.
4maskwolf- I thought he was town, but Now I'm starting to dislike his answers and his tone. Not sure.
notquitethere- You seem to be trying, and giving logical explanations, but you haven't answered my questions. Guessing town, for now.
Caz- Hasn't been helpful at all as far as I can tell. Slight scum lean.
Superblackcat- Not here, null.
Darkpaladin109- Trying to stay hidden? I'm guessing scum/noob.
Solymr- I don't like the way he's been acting, or his tone. I don't think he killed DS, but I still don't trust him.
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy- Haven't seen anything incriminating yet. Still deciding.
+!!scientist!!+- I don't like the general demeanor of him, slight scum lean.
Caz
Caz.
Answer my questions and get in here.
Superblackcat
RL stuff from you. I'll get back to you.
Darkpaladin109
You.
You also need to answer my questions.
Solymr
cheese:While you suspect me, maybe you'd like to answer my multitude of questions? Or would you rather we just drop those, and have me go hide somewhere to "save face"? Your call.
Don't think I've forgotten you either. I suspect you of trying to defend IG by pressuring and attacking me.
Tiruin
Mr. Cheese[1] I wanted to see your answer, no particular thought went through my mind. What sort of information do you think could be gleamed from such a question?Tiruin: You're the Bad, and the Good is dead. Someone claims Union General, and says that another person is a Confederate, but they don't get lynched by making the argument that they are the Ugly. Instead, the person claiming Union General gets lynched, and is proven to have told the truth. What do you do, and why?I flail in joy like a muppet. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_w4oSCJIQk)
Opportunistic semblance to personal reaction aside, I am a Union SK. I do as I said above, but to myself IRL and not in thread-post. I will..well, depending on the situation I either delve into it and check on what the rest are doing, leave those claimants to stew among their fates and act as a bystander-prosecutor or base my proceedings on what had just happened.
I...do not work well with general statements (pun not intended), but require a specific situation.
[1] Query: Why pull a neutral role in sucha situation? What were you thinking about me when you asked me this?
Mr. CheeseTiruin: You need to stop delaying, Borscht or not. What are your reads so far? And if you would explain the reasons for your reads?I fail to make a miswording of something funny. As for reads-they were all neutral at the time of my last post with subtle curiosity regarding IG on the skim, NQT for his 'self-claim' as an introductory post, Interest at Solymyr for being new and able to explain himself thoroughly--all neutral reads, but all curious.
[2] Meaning: No I have no read, and I do apologize for my effort. I shouldn't have been weak. I should've posted here. I am sorry.
Reason @above: Skimming, yet I also connected the cause to effect, though my reads are more influenced if I put my weight behind them (or if what I observe their actions are, have good 'emphasis' into them).
[3] And for this delaying note, I do see that you put that as a subtle-aggressive-prod, yes? I was not delaying, however.
[2] I don't think I need to even get on you for this. It's blatantly obvious. I would ask "why aren't you thinking more into this?" but you haven't been here.
[3] Yes, you are correct. Delaying or not, you need to get into the game. You can apologize later.
And as I go through the thread while typing this up, you seem to have returned quite acceptably. Thank you.
Mr. CheeseOut attempts on discovering TDS's murdering. Scumhunting.
Investigationwhatnow?
After reading through everything, I realize now the extent of the hard times you are going through. I apologize if anything I said to you above is taken as rude or offensive. I'd rather not change it because I write these as I go along through the thread, and so they're my thoughts on things as I go through it, so it's fresh in my mind. But if it seems mean, I'm sorry.
MyOwnWorstEnemy
Mastahcheese:Would you care to explain exactly what it is that you're wondering about? What conclusions does it lead you too?
I think it's quite suspicious that TDS was night killed and he didn't seem like a threat to the scum. I think that's a big thing. It makes me wonder.
As for him not having any reads on anyone, it's understandable. D1 for me is just mass confusion.
Also, you seem to have failed to notice that I didn't give you a question in the post where I asked everyone a question. In fact, Wolf even mentioned this, and you still don't seem to notice! Are you reading everything, or just the stuff with your name attached?
This isn't the first time I've pointed out your lack of observation.
MyOwnWorstEnemySo tell me again, MOWE, how much attention are you really paying here? Or do you already know all the answers you need?Mastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
+!!scientist!!+
You want to know something?
I actually forgot you were playing in this.
That's not a good thing.
I have questions that need answering.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 27, 2014, 12:46:53 am
Post by: notquitethere on February 27, 2014, 05:41:17 am
I'm still awaiting your responses to my questions, NQT.Hopefully these were they:
DarkStar is dead. What are your thoughts on this?It's odd that they chose Darkstar. I've now entertaining two competing theories: either the Confederates thought he was least likely to be the Ugly, and so killed him and the Bad is one of the lurkers; or the remaining Confederates are scared of hitting the Ugly and so didn't take a shot and something Darkstar said made the Bad think he was a third-party. Alternatively, both teams could have targeted him and in that case we should pay more attention to his reads... unless that's what they wanted us to do.
What are your thoughts on DarkStar's reads?Well, he didn't seem to have made any strong reads at all. They're mostly all 'slight scum' or 'null'. It's a shame more people didn't interact yesterday, otherwise we could have gleaned more from reads and interactions after the flips.
Thanks for the reads by the way, this will help.
MOWE
I've seen players just give up before and I always find it odd. It's possible it was a deliberate ploy (in that case, his ally would be Scientist or Wolf), but it's equally possible that we have a lurker scum-team that wasn't giving him any guidance (or he simply didn't take into account the guidance).MOWE, Solymyr, IG, as vote leader, unvoted and shortened. He could be voting someone else to break the tie and remove the danger of himself being lynched. Does that look like the actions of a person who's receiving advice from someone in a private chat?I definitely think it was a collaboration. I think there was a reason behind what he did, probably involving drawing attention away from his scum partners. Although he did mention that he thought that one or two votes in RVS doesn't matter. I think eventually he just gave up after the votes turned out to be more significant than what he'd originally thought.
Tiruin
Hey, handsome! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5041803#msg5041803) If you keep on misusing and abusing the term of 'lurker' to make yourself look more active than the rest of us, I am shocked and awed at your comprehension value to utterly miss one part that you keep on repeating against me.I can see where you're coming from: there is a difference in intent between a player that reads the thread but doesn't contribute (a 'lurker') and a player that is simply absent (possibly with good reason). I was referring to your Day 1 play anyway. I'm glad that you've been posting today, long may it continue.
So you easily attribute a sense of absence to someone you'd prefer seeing lynched, mmm?In the absence of other information, lynching non-participating players makes sense on Day One. On later days, when there's more information, I'd say it wasn't quite a sufficient reason.
So you don't consider my statement as something, huh?I didn't need to downplay everything you said on Day 1 because you barely said anything. This game is played by asking and answering pointed questions and now you admit to ignoring mine! I wanted you to contribute Day 1 so we'd all be able to have stronger reads Day 2. That was the point. My principle is this: good players should contribute and encourage other players to contribute. There's nothing 'fluffy' about that. And before you jump down my throat: I know you had good reason to be away yesterday, that's fine. But if you're in a mafia game then expect to be voted.QuoteInformation and their strings attached.Is a general statement I counted towards it. I did mention I have a better detailed answer, yeah? Why didn't you talk about that and instead downplayed EVERYTHING I said, buddy?
The reason I withheld such is because the question you asked is pointed. Pointed meaning you asked this for good reason rather than any such RVS/Getting-to-know-you idea I could fathom as your intent. Why should I give you something, when my words are for the public notion, hm? NQT for Third-party president?
In lieu of this, I note a genuine lack of curiosity in you-rather a pointed and assertive manner of conduct in which you post. You seem to be acting less on principle and more of action. Fluffy action.
Talking about being a true Yankee is no different to writing everything in a French accent. Other than keeping my vote on you due to the fact that you never came back with your promised questions, I've treated you no differently than anyone else.QuoteAs I said, I wanted to set the mood with a tiny bit of roleplaying. I often do it in my initial post of the day. Don't you recall the roleplaying in Witches?That was totally different. Here, you explicitly talk about the Union with flavorful details. I was more curious when you singled me out and generalized my disposition towards your work without you yourself giving me leeway to explain myself in that post.
Hence my annoyance towards you that you like to conclude beforehand.
And here I speak for the oppressed. You ABUSE the term of being a LURKER without doing ANY research on the people you judge to LABEL!I made several minor Day 1 cases and am pursuing a number of lines of questioning today, and unlike the scum and third parties I actually intend to use my vote productively. I understand that you were absent genuinely and that's OK. My vote on you yesterday was holding you to a promise that you yourself made. You said questions were forthcoming and they weren't. It's day 2 and we have more information and I'm making fresh cases. Your vote on me looks like a time-delayed OMGUS.
If you paid ATTENTION, you would've noticed my absence was GENUINE. Bloody hell do you expect me to have a case when I'm absent.
Do you?
DO YOU?
Hah. Answer that snarkpants.
Not surprising, but it's good for you to say.QuoteSBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?Because I had a lacking read on anyone.
Surprising no?
You're intentionally being blind, aren't you? I specifically SAID it was RL stuff.I wasn't being intentionally blind. Tiruin, I'm really sorry about your aunt and I totally understand you're having a tough time and that it's all a legitimate reason not to be around. I wasn't trying to be hard on you for it. I'm not an unfeeling monster. Just to reiterate: my Day 1 vote on you was because of this:
Edit: Oh damn this. LOOK BELOW FOR MY RL STUFF.
Addressing the stuffs later on.I took this to mean, 'later on, on Day 1'. You might disagree but on Day 1 I think when someone promises something it's legitimate to vote them until they fulfil that promise. Just like I'm doing with Caz now. As much as I like you and empathise with your situation, we're still playing a game and that game requires us to vote people if we want to win.
@NQT: [Query about not extending]That's fine. It happens.
> I totally didn't see that 'day ends by x hours' note and thought it would continue and that I'd have enough time to check...
I didn't check, is what I mean by 'I didn't see.'
Wolf
NQT: Perhaps lynching so called "useless" people is the most EFFICIENT way to play mafia, but it sure as hell isn't going to be how I play. What I don't understand is why people having real life makes them useless. Perhaps if you'd had any facts against Tiruin, I would agree with you, but you DON'T. I may have to start a policy lynch of lynch all people who attack those with RL issues. Because this is a game, not a war, and in any face to face context what you have been saying about people (specifically Tiruin and, to a lesser extent, SBC) would NOT be acceptable.Uh oh, there's been a serious miscommunication here. I'm sorry! I didn't mean to imply that people having real life makes them useless people— they just don't give us any help in playing the game. My vote on Tiruin yesterday (I'm not voting her right now, note) was holding her to something she'd said, which is just a regular Day 1 move in mafia, as I explained to you in my last post. I think it's okay to vote for non-participating players on Day 1 in the absence of other information (Tiruin is just as likely to be a Confederate as anyone else). I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feeling by calling people 'useless'. It's possible that word is milder for me than for others. I only meant that in terms of giving us information and helping the game they weren't able to contribute. I'm sure they're all great people.
... Sorry for the rant, guys, I've had a bad day and I feel really bad for Tiruin's family right now and the way NQT has phrased things has bugged me for a while now and I just snapped... my apologies...I agree with you. We have information now on Day 2 so there is absolutely no reason to policy lynch anyone today.
But look. Tiruin has a major reason to be out right now. That does not mean we should policy lynch her.
SBC has a reason to be out right now. That does not mean that we should policy lynch him either.
Now. Let's focus on the people who CAN be in the game actively. Whether they do or don't play is the real issue. I'm looking at you, DP and Caz. If either of you two has an RL reason not to post, just say that RL is getting in the way, but don't just lurk.
Post by: Persus13 on February 27, 2014, 07:52:45 am
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Tiruin
Caz- notquitethere
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- 4maskwolf
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, +!!scientist!!+, mastahcheese, MOWE, Solymr, Caz
2 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 2 will end February 28th, at 11:00 PM EST
I sent a prod to Scientist 12 hours ago telling him if he didn't respond in the next 30 hours (18 now) I'd start looking for a replacement for him.
Post by: Solymr on February 27, 2014, 07:58:10 am
Solmyr: You are on your first game, yet you seem to have a fairly good grasp of the game. You have answered every question until the recent ones with fairly well thought-out answers. Why have you presented what you would do as scum in several places? Particularly things that you could well have done/be doing?Somebody asked me and I answered. Simple as that.
MOWE, Solymyr, IG, as vote leader, unvoted and shortened. He could be voting someone else to break the tie and remove the danger of himself being lynched. Does that look like the actions of a person who's receiving advice from someone in a private chat?That looked like he was trying to get himself killed. It doesn't look like something a scum would do, but certainly advise to do to try and look less scummy, which partially worked.
As fot TDS' reads:
He didn't seem to get strong reads on a lot of people. The strongest read was DP, who seems like he got a hard role for a first timer and is being overtly cautious. He might be getting framed, but he sure isn't acting like a regular townie.
This could be scum trying to frame DP, but he's really digging himself deeper, so this could very well be a random kill by the Bad.
Now for some analysis of my own:
DP:
As I said before, I think he got a complex role for someone playing mafia for the first time, and is trying to make the best of it by being overly cautious. Most certainly not vanilla town.
Caz:
This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5032295#msg5032295) makes me think that Caz was trying to throw IG under the bus after a slip without actually getting involved in the accusations. He posted a lot less after that.
NQT, Wolf:
Not sure what is up with these two. They could be massively playing me but both seem fairly town to me.
mastahcheese:
I could take his pressure as scum trying to save his partner, but it really does seem like scumhunting to me, even if it was against myself. Town for the time being.
SBC:
Extend to see how he responds to all this.
Tiruin:
Gonna leave her alone for the time being.
MOWE:
Slight town because of the IG vote, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary other than not being very active.
Ppe or whateveryoucallit
scientist:
IG tried to bandwagon him early on, so I don't think he's scum. Then he suddenly disappeared, making me think that he's a third party or dropped dead.
Post by: notquitethere on February 27, 2014, 08:41:02 am
Tiruin— Also, when you're free and ready, would you be able to give us your reads?
Post by: Silthuri on February 27, 2014, 08:56:30 am
MyOwnWorstEnemyI'm wondering about wtf is up here. Only one kill last night with three people with the ability to kill. "It makes me wonder" for me is basically saying its suspicious to me. It makes me wonder what's up.Mastahcheese:Would you care to explain exactly what it is that you're wondering about? What conclusions does it lead you too?
I think it's quite suspicious that TDS was night killed and he didn't seem like a threat to the scum. I think that's a big thing. It makes me wonder.
As for him not having any reads on anyone, it's understandable. D1 for me is just mass confusion.
Also, you seem to have failed to notice that I didn't give you a question in the post where I asked everyone a question. In fact, Wolf even mentioned this, and you still don't seem to notice! Are you reading everything, or just the stuff with your name attached?
This isn't the first time I've pointed out your lack of observation.MyOwnWorstEnemySo tell me again, MOWE, how much attention are you really paying here? Or do you already know all the answers you need?Mastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
As for your question, I answered it a long time ago, Mastahcheese. Just how much attention are you paying my friend?
MyOwnWorstEnemyMastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
Apparently not enough to notice the "why" tagged on the end. Sorry about that. I'd point out their flaws in logic and attack them for it because that's how I feel one should react in that situation and that's how I feel I would react. When someone's convincing the others to go after you with no evidence, you do your best to prove to the others that they have no evidence. It just seems logical to me.
Wolf:
MOWE IS BACK!!!!!??? ...Is that sarcasm or do I really invoke excitement after returning from my great adventure of...two days?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2014, 10:10:09 am
And MOWE: I get excited when the game gets more interesting because more people play.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on February 27, 2014, 12:39:51 pm
SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 27, 2014, 12:45:16 pm
I'm wondering about wtf is up here. Only one kill last night with three people with the ability to kill. "It makes me wonder" for me is basically saying its suspicious to me. It makes me wonder what's up.Funny how you try to put words in my mouth. In no spot did I say you failed to answer the question, I'm stating that you've repeatedly shown a lack of attentiveness. Attentiveness that would be used to hunt scum.
As for your question, I answered it a long time ago, Mastahcheese. Just how much attention are you paying my friend?MyOwnWorstEnemyMastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
Apparently not enough to notice the "why" tagged on the end. Sorry about that. I'd point out their flaws in logic and attack them for it because that's how I feel one should react in that situation and that's how I feel I would react. When someone's convincing the others to go after you with no evidence, you do your best to prove to the others that they have no evidence. It just seems logical to me.
darkpaladin109
Not posting makes you more suspicious. You need to be active, not only to be less likely to be accused, as you seem to want, but also to be productive.SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.
NQT
In Day 1, you would always respond with a question of your own when you answered a question. You've stopped doing that.
Are you trying to remain unnoticed? You've become reactive, rather than active. That's not like you, or how you were Day 1. Explain yourself.
Post by: Silthuri on February 27, 2014, 07:03:23 pm
MyOwnWorstEnemy... putting words in your mouth by misreading your question? I seriously thought you were calling me out on that question. But I'm being an idiot. Yes, I am just reading things with my name attached at present, and not very well I might add. Especially since your questions seem to be more extensive. My brain seems to pick out parts of the question that stand out and whilst I'm answering that, the other parts slip my mind (makes test-taking extremely hard for me).I'm wondering about wtf is up here. Only one kill last night with three people with the ability to kill. "It makes me wonder" for me is basically saying its suspicious to me. It makes me wonder what's up.Funny how you try to put words in my mouth. In no spot did I say you failed to answer the question, I'm stating that you've repeatedly shown a lack of attentiveness. Attentiveness that would be used to hunt scum.
As for your question, I answered it a long time ago, Mastahcheese. Just how much attention are you paying my friend?MyOwnWorstEnemyMastahcheese:Good answer, but you failed to state why. How much attention are you really paying here?MyOwnWorstEnemy: You're a Union Soldier, and someone is going after you, despite not having real evidence, yet people are still agreeing with them. What do you do? And why?I'd point out the flaws in my attacker's logic and go after them.
Apparently not enough to notice the "why" tagged on the end. Sorry about that. I'd point out their flaws in logic and attack them for it because that's how I feel one should react in that situation and that's how I feel I would react. When someone's convincing the others to go after you with no evidence, you do your best to prove to the others that they have no evidence. It just seems logical to me.
You're right, mastahcheese. I haven't been paying much attention. My attention has been on school work lately. I guess trying to stay active with my attention elsewhere is a bad idea. In this, I'm failing to give the thread the attention it needs. Things are starting to slack off at present so I'll head on back and reread the thread meticulously.
Although I feel the need to say that you're not the first person to just leave me out of a post of questions. To me, that's not a scumtell on it's own. Maybe you just don't have anything for me to answer. Even if I had noticed this, I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it anyway.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2014, 07:56:18 pm
4maskwolf[1] I believe that MOWE is perfectly capable of speaking for herself. I also don't see how not noticing the lack of a question directed at you indicates scumminess: care to explain how that particular instance makes sense?Okay, there are a few things I want to answer in this post. The first is this: Yes, it is scumhunting. He also did nothing scummy except vote for a scum. He just had the misfortune of being the first to respond to your questions. [1] Also, I notice that you left MOWE out of the question list that time: care to explain?[1] The reason that MOWE was left out of the questions was because I had done so intentionally to see if they are actually paying attention. It's common knowledge that scum tend to pay less attention during games because they already know who is town, and don't have to look for clues. Why is it that you're pointing it out? Do you not feel that MOWE can answer for themselves?
I was not blindly following NQT: I put no stock whatsoever in his "method". I don't think that post count means much, as clever scum could manipulate that as easily as everything else. I already admitted that because it was day 1, I merely skimmed the last part of the conversation before making my assessment. However, upon closer inspection and getting to an actual computer, I realized that Solymr had said precious little to warrant an attack like that and had answered the questions reasonably, by my metric.
The multi-post is called Posting while Tired. [2] You are on the dwarf fortress forums, you know that I post things when I think of them, not caring about the number of posts in a row by me there are.
[2] I don't pay much attention to people's posting habits, but this is a game where people watch for that sort of thing, as part of their methods of finding scum. Yeah, it is easy to manipulate, and it's also easy to try and rationalize it while you're doing it.
[2] Yes, it is easy to manipulate it. This is why I don't put much stock in that kind of thing. Plus, on the post where he stated his observation, NQT said that he was taking into account the posting habits of the players, making it far harder to manipulate in any reasonable way.
Now, to asking questions:
NQT: I was reading through one of your posts and found a couple of things of note:
Quote from: NQT
MOWEI'd like to hear how you came to this conclusion. Particularly the Scientist one: scientist has hardly been active at all.
Quote from: MyOwnWorstEnemy on February 26, 2014, 10:05:13 pm
Quote from: notquitethere on February 24, 2014, 08:11:31 pm
MOWE, Solymyr, IG, as vote leader, unvoted and shortened. He could be voting someone else to break the tie and remove the danger of himself being lynched. Does that look like the actions of a person who's receiving advice from someone in a private chat?
I definitely think it was a collaboration. I think there was a reason behind what he did, probably involving drawing attention away from his scum partners. Although he did mention that he thought that one or two votes in RVS doesn't matter. I think eventually he just gave up after the votes turned out to be more significant than what he'd originally thought.
I've seen players just give up before and I always find it odd. It's possible it was a deliberate ploy (in that case, his ally would be Scientist or Wolf), but it's equally possible that we have a lurker scum-team that wasn't giving him any guidance (or he simply didn't take into account the guidance).
Quote from: NQT
It's odd that they chose Darkstar. I've now entertaining two competing theories: either the Confederates thought he was least likely to be the Ugly, and so killed him and the Bad is one of the lurkers; or the remaining Confederates are scared of hitting the Ugly and so didn't take a shot and something Darkstar said made the Bad think he was a third-party. Alternatively, both teams could have targeted him and in that case we should pay more attention to his reads... unless that's what they wanted us to do.That, my good sir, is WIFOM. There was no reason to add this on to the end, the only possible reason to write this would be to make us doubt ourselves.
Unvote darkpaladin, vote NQT. The things you say just aren't adding up.
Post by: Tiruin on February 27, 2014, 08:29:46 pm
Mr. Cheese
In this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5044360#msg5044360) and in its context (minus the error in quote formatting): The note of how the word use of 'failing to do x' does come off as what you stated there.
Erh, where is she [MOWE] putting words into yer mouth?
NQT
Tiruin— Also, when you're free and ready, would you be able to give us your reads?After I write my version of Martin Luther's 'I have a Dream'. Which means yay free time in 6 hours later.
Basic gist?
> My reads back then were and are on the point of curiosity:
- IG: Read curiously scummy due to something [his vote] "staying" (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5029263#msg5029263) yet upon context... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.75) it didn't make much work. He didn't say anything otherwise to forward that note on scientist--came off as weird for why it should stay [he didn't mention why]
He missed my query here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5035549#msg5035549) but addressed this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5036416#msg5036416) with the usual form of brevity that either denotes 'hey I'm busy' or whatever [hence why I HATE BREVITY]. So null.
- MOWE: Upon skimmily rereading her notes, she's null, but I get a benevolent feel from her in the way of logic and stuff on that note. The same goes for the everyone else that aren't mentioned here yet are in intervals of: null, feeling benevolent and I didn't read much into them. Yeah, that last one also includes Caz because she's quite silly when she's under external influences.
- 4mask: ...Null. Though I feel something weird about him--either there's a shift in playstyle that he's questioning and poking in a forward way or...mmph.
- Newbies Solymyr/Darkpaladin: Former runs townie to me due to his methods and words mentioned D1-Can't remember exacts, just that said person pinged my reading-mind as a good sign, and the latter seriously needs to post more yet is null-townish.
Though he should stop editing his posts. :P
- ...Superblackcat is playing!? ..Erh. I didn't notice. >.> Yeah. This is how far back my memory goes.
All of these were skimmed.
4mask: Excuse if answered (but please link if it was) but in this post, why do I see specifics being thrown about in regard to who killed whom? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5041508#msg5041508) Also what's the note on Mr. Cheese there about?
Do you believe Unionists have a certain behavior that they follow? Could you state it if so (and if not)?
Next, do note that we've 2 Survivor-types, The Good and the Ugly: Masons, Millers, and they are a one-shot Vig and a Bulletproofer, respectively. The Bad is a Godfather/Survivor/Mason-Lyncher...
Persus: How is the Bad an SK when I don't see anything in the OP regarding 'everyone else must DAIH'?
Post by: Persus13 on February 27, 2014, 08:48:45 pm
Post by: Tiruin on February 27, 2014, 08:51:51 pm
Not an SK in functionality and goal, purely?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2014, 08:53:26 pm
Quickpost PFP and stuffTo the first point, I was trying to analyze the extent of what I know. I was applying Occam's Razor to the idea of one absent player versus two. It was mostly a way of getting my thoughts organized and out there for others to analyze my points and determine the validity.
Mr. Cheese
In this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5044360#msg5044360) and in its context (minus the error in quote formatting): The note of how the word use of 'failing to do x' does come off as what you stated there.
Erh, where is she [MOWE] putting words into yer mouth?
NQTTiruin— Also, when you're free and ready, would you be able to give us your reads?After I write my version of Martin Luther's 'I have a Dream'. Which means yay free time in 6 hours later.
Basic gist?
> My reads back then were and are on the point of curiosity:
- IG: Read curiously scummy due to something [his vote] "staying" (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5029263#msg5029263) yet upon context... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.75) it didn't make much work. He didn't say anything otherwise to forward that note on scientist--came off as weird for why it should stay [he didn't mention why]
He missed my query here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5035549#msg5035549) but addressed this one (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5036416#msg5036416) with the usual form of brevity that either denotes 'hey I'm busy' or whatever [hence why I HATE BREVITY]. So null.
- MOWE: Upon skimmily rereading her notes, she's null, but I get a benevolent feel from her in the way of logic and stuff on that note. The same goes for the everyone else that aren't mentioned here yet are in intervals of: null, feeling benevolent and I didn't read much into them. Yeah, that last one also includes Caz because she's quite silly when she's under external influences.
- 4mask: ...Null. Though I feel something weird about him--either there's a shift in playstyle that he's questioning and poking in a forward way or...mmph.
- Newbies Solymyr/Darkpaladin: Former runs townie to me due to his methods and words mentioned D1-Can't remember exacts, just that said person pinged my reading-mind as a good sign, and the latter seriously needs to post more yet is null-townish.
Though he should stop editing his posts. :P
- ...Superblackcat is playing!? ..Erh. I didn't notice. >.> Yeah. This is how far back my memory goes.
All of these were skimmed.
4mask: Excuse if answered (but please link if it was) but in this post, why do I see specifics being thrown about in regard to who killed whom? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5041508#msg5041508) Also what's the note on Mr. Cheese there about?
Do you believe Unionists have a certain behavior that they follow? Could you state it if so (and if not)?
Next, do note that we've 2 Survivor-types, The Good and the Ugly: Masons, Millers, and they are a one-shot Vig and a Bulletproofer, respectively. The Bad is a Godfather/Survivor/Mason-Lyncher...
Persus: How is the Bad an SK when I don't see anything in the OP regarding 'everyone else must DAIH'?
To the second point: The note on Mr. Cheese was to see if he would retaliate, mostly. There was something fishy about him on day one, what with attacking Solymr. I decided to see what I could get from him, and he responded with the same vigor he attacked Solymr with. I'll post more in less than an hour, but I have to run.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 27, 2014, 09:16:35 pm
Mr. Cheese: Care to explain exactly what set you off at the beginning of day 2? While you were active day one, the only person I remember you actively pursuing was Solymr, and that happened after there was a possibility that IG would be lynched.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 27, 2014, 11:25:47 pm
... putting words in your mouth by misreading your question? I seriously thought you were calling me out on that question. But I'm being an idiot. Yes, I am just reading things with my name attached at present, and not very well I might add. Especially since your questions seem to be more extensive. My brain seems to pick out parts of the question that stand out and whilst I'm answering that, the other parts slip my mind (makes test-taking extremely hard for me).I don't even know what to say to this anymore. Apparently I'm just expecting too much out of people, and I can see that you're starting to get distressed by my demeanor. So I'll just wait before getting back to you. I'm sorry if I've upset you.
You're right, mastahcheese. I haven't been paying much attention. My attention has been on school work lately. I guess trying to stay active with my attention elsewhere is a bad idea. In this, I'm failing to give the thread the attention it needs. Things are starting to slack off at present so I'll head on back and reread the thread meticulously.
Although I feel the need to say that you're not the first person to just leave me out of a post of questions. To me, that's not a scumtell on it's own. Maybe you just don't have anything for me to answer. Even if I had noticed this, I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it anyway.
4maskwolf
[1] I believe that MOWE is perfectly capable of speaking for herself. I also don't see how not noticing the lack of a question directed at you indicates scumminess: care to explain how that particular instance makes sense?I left out the question to see if they would notice it, but it seems that I'm setting people to too high of a standard, or at least that's the feeling I'm getting right now, so I'm just going to drop it. The theory, as I'm fairly sure I've explained before, is that scum pay less attention then town.
Tiruin
Mr. CheeseMOWE seemed to believe that I was making an argument that she failed to answer a question, when she had. But that wasn't the argument I was making, the argument I was making was that she wasn't paying attention. The part where she's "putting words in my mouth" was where she showed a quote to show that she had, in fact, answered the question. But that wasn't even what the argument was about.
In this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5044360#msg5044360) and in its context (minus the error in quote formatting): The note of how the word use of 'failing to do x' does come off as what you stated there.
Erh, where is she [MOWE] putting words into yer mouth?
4maskwolf
Mr. Cheese: Care to explain exactly what set you off at the beginning of day 2? While you were active day one, the only person I remember you actively pursuing was Solymr, and that happened after there was a possibility that IG would be lynched.The reason I pursued Solymr was because I believed I had found something off about him, and wanted to know why.
The reason I've been going after people the way I have been is because, unlike some lucky bastard that can just scan people to get answers, I have jack. I have to work at it, and so I am. And I'm sorry, but maybe I've been making it slightly too far by getting annoyed at people failing to notice what I believe to be leads. Maybe I've been nothing but wrong about absolutely everybody, I don't know. But I'm trying. And I'm trying to get other people out here to hunt, as well, but now it feels like I'm going possibly even to the point of making people upset in RL, so I'm just going to stop for a minute, and let other people do stuff for a second, and come back when I'm calm.
Post by: Tiruin on February 28, 2014, 04:42:27 am
Query for you: What is the reason you are posting?SBC, Darkpaladin109, Tiruin, +!!scientist!!+, 4maskwolf, Imperial Guardsman— why didn't you guys cast your vote by the end of the day?Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.
Next: Why do you give in to fear?
Afterwards: Could you clarify your first sentence?
Also, 'Could have been town' is a pretty nice point. However what makes you so sure about that?
How is all that stressful?
Post by: notquitethere on February 28, 2014, 05:15:03 am
Stress, since I didn't want to linch someone who could have been town. And the reason I'm not posting too much is because I fear that I'l make myself seem too suspicious if I do.As people have already pointed out, not posting is more suspicious than posting. Which of the other players do you find suspicious and why?
Cheese
In Day 1, you would always respond with a question of your own when you answered a question. You've stopped doing that.This is a reasonable question, but in this case misplaced. I've been waiting on the replies of several people, notably Caz and Scientist. I've got all of people's reads and excuses for not voting to compile and I'm in conversation with Tiruin who has her lynch vote on me. Hardly just reactive play, but admittedly the full force of my Day 2 proactivity hasn't fully blossomed to fruition. I'm part-way through trawling back and looking over interactions in light of the flips and that takes time.
Are you trying to remain unnoticed? You've become reactive, rather than active. That's not like you, or how you were Day 1. Explain yourself.
I noticed that in your first post full of questions, you asked SuperBlackCat a question that he didn't answer and you never followed it up. It's easy to overlook things when you're addressing everyone but do you think his persistent absence is notable?
Wolf
NQT: I was reading through one of your posts and found a couple of things of note:If IG unvoting and getting himself lynched was a deliberate ploy, then he'd most likely be in league with either you (who got him lynched by unvoting Soly) or Scientist, who, if he'd kept his vote on, could have been an alternative lynch target. Most likely though, Scientist isn't a Confederate and IG unvoting was a ploy to make himself seem less guilty. His thought process was probably something like 'drat, people are voting me because of my weak case on Scientist. I know, I'll unvote scientist and shorten the day so it looks like I'm not worried about being lynched and I'm no longer making a bad case'. I think that's more likely than it being a deliberately orchestrated move with his scumbuddies.Quote from: NQTIt's possible it was a deliberate ploy (in that case, his ally would be Scientist or Wolf)...I'd like to hear how you came to this conclusion. Particularly the Scientist one: scientist has hardly been active at all.
I was merely listing out the possibilities. I don't think you understand what 'WIFOM' really means. I wasn't trying to convince anyone of anything based on spurious logic, I was just indicating that as much as we'd like, there isn't too much to be gained from speculating on why they chose Darkstar to kill as the possible reasons are too large. Probably whoever chose Darkstar did so because they thought something he said made him sound like he was someone they wanted to kill, or they didn't think we could learn much from his death (but if that was the case, why not kill a lurker?). Or do you disagree? Was there a clear message to be gleaned from Darkstar's death?Quote from: NQTIt's odd that they chose Darkstar. I've now entertaining two competing theories: either the Confederates thought he was least likely to be the Ugly, and so killed him and the Bad is one of the lurkers; or the remaining Confederates are scared of hitting the Ugly and so didn't take a shot and something Darkstar said made the Bad think he was a third-party. Alternatively, both teams could have targeted him and in that case we should pay more attention to his reads... unless that's what they wanted us to do.That, my good sir, is WIFOM. There was no reason to add this on to the end, the only possible reason to write this would be to make us doubt ourselves.
Unvote darkpaladin, vote NQT. The things you say just aren't adding up.
Tiruin
I thank you for your reads. So the only person you found scummy yesterday was the person who is now revealed to be scum. Interesting. And who do you think is scummy today? If you still have a case against me, could you please spell it out? I believe I've comprehensible answered your points against me.
Post by: Persus13 on February 28, 2014, 06:06:01 am
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Tiruin, 4maskwolf
Caz- notquitethere
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109-
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, +!!scientist!!+, mastahcheese, MOWE, Solymr, Caz
3 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 2 has been extended to Monday March 3rd, and will end at 11:00 PM EST
1 Extension remaining
Scientist is up for being forcibly replaced.
Post by: notquitethere on February 28, 2014, 08:45:57 am
Actually, I'm just going to vote you, Solymr, because your answers to my questions have given me plenty more to suspect about you.What exactly did you suspect at that time? I'm looking back and your spat with Soly doesn't reflect well on you. Take this, for instance:
Here you're accusing Solymr of conspiring to bus IG. But how did you even know IG was scum at that point?And I wouldn't point it out in public if there's a chance that nobody noticed it. Or if someone else makes another mistake.But, as I pointed out, MOWE had already drawn attention to it. AND (I just noticed this!) IG said that in a 5 person bandwagon, he'd suspect the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. So you made sure to act quickly to get the second spot, right? A day 1 lynch on scum is pretty much guaranteed to give you the trust of others, possibly even through a long time over many days, enough time to win without him!
What are your thoughts on this, Solymr? Because so far, I'm not liking your answers one bit.
Post by: notquitethere on February 28, 2014, 10:09:12 am
Interesting facts so far: everyone except Tiruin has at least a mild scum read on Dark Paladin and Caz. Also, no one has a scum read on Wolf or MOWE.
Hopefully, the absent players will come through with those reads and then we can all see what everyone really thinks of each other.
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 12:57:46 pm
Interesting facts so far: everyone except Tiruin has at least a mild scum read on Dark Paladin and Caz. Also, no one has a scum read on Wolf or MOWE.
Where town agrees on something, you know scum is benefiting. :P
[/quote]
Post by: notquitethere on February 28, 2014, 01:56:15 pm
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 02:10:50 pm
Caz, I might be inclined to agree-- if yilou weren't so damned scummy. Give us your reads!
I read it but nothing goes in.
4maskwolf - slight scum, but has been active
Mastahcheese - silght town
notquitethere - pretty active, chasing after lurkers a lot. does he hate lurkers as much as vigs?
Caz - fights for glorious union (i wanted to be sioux indian fyi)
Superblackcat - ???
Darkpaladin109 - super scummy, but new. probably 3rd party
Solymr - prolly town
Tiruin - inactive d1, but d2 posts are solid
MyOwnWorstEnemy - due to vote on IG, is likely a non-confderate
Deathsword - what. oh, he replaced scientist. no read either.
re: NQT - you asked why I didn't follow up to IG's non-response of question. that is because he is dead and corpses tell no tales.
Post by: Solymr on February 28, 2014, 02:21:51 pm
Post by: Solymr on February 28, 2014, 02:24:08 pm
Deathsword:
Any words?
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 02:24:47 pm
How do you know Deathsword is the replacement for scientist?
He's on the list of players on page one
Post by: Persus13 on February 28, 2014, 02:29:04 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 28, 2014, 02:36:59 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2014, 03:18:33 pm
Caz: Could you explain some of your reads, please. There were a few ones that were unclear.
DP: I hope that you don't stress too much: at the end of the day, we are all friends here, or at the very least friendly to each other.
NQT: I can't say there is a clear message to be gained, no. TDS died before he could give a strong opinion.
More later today.
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 04:06:08 pm
Caz: Could you explain some of your reads, please. There were a few ones that were unclear.
man, you should honestly ignore them. idk why i even posted
Post by: notquitethere on February 28, 2014, 05:17:40 pm
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 05:42:41 pm
Post by: Silthuri on February 28, 2014, 05:56:03 pm
MyOwnWorstEnemy... putting words in your mouth by misreading your question? I seriously thought you were calling me out on that question. But I'm being an idiot. Yes, I am just reading things with my name attached at present, and not very well I might add. Especially since your questions seem to be more extensive. My brain seems to pick out parts of the question that stand out and whilst I'm answering that, the other parts slip my mind (makes test-taking extremely hard for me).I don't even know what to say to this anymore. Apparently I'm just expecting too much out of people, and I can see that you're starting to get distressed by my demeanor. So I'll just wait before getting back to you. I'm sorry if I've upset you.
You're right, mastahcheese. I haven't been paying much attention. My attention has been on school work lately. I guess trying to stay active with my attention elsewhere is a bad idea. In this, I'm failing to give the thread the attention it needs. Things are starting to slack off at present so I'll head on back and reread the thread meticulously.
Although I feel the need to say that you're not the first person to just leave me out of a post of questions. To me, that's not a scumtell on it's own. Maybe you just don't have anything for me to answer. Even if I had noticed this, I probably wouldn't have been bothered by it anyway.
I'm distressed because I was being an idiot. I'm not ticked because you're calling me out on things that you think are scummy. I was being honest in my last post, not necessarily angry and I didn't intend for it to come out that way. Here's a little tidbit about me: when someone points out something I did wrong, I do get a bit angry, but I get angry at myself for not being as good as I should be, hence MyOwnWorstEnemy.
Caz:
Caz: Could you explain some of your reads, please. There were a few ones that were unclear.
man, you should honestly ignore them. idk why i even posted
Then can you give us some real reads perhaps?
lynching conferendates is a better strayteg imoWhat?
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 08:54:11 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2014, 09:26:27 pm
Unvote NQT, vote Caz. I don't know what is up with his behavior, but he's been avoiding the questions and generally seems uninterested in the game. I'm still suspicious of NQT, but with nothing concrete to go on I'll drop it for now.
MOWE: Don't be too hard on yourself, it's just a game.
Now, to questioning:
Tiruin: Do you think that the kill last night was the bad, the confederates, or a mix of both? Why?
Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
NQT:
So... could anyone tell me why we shouldn't lynch Caz?Do you have something more substantial to say, or are you restricting yourself to small posts to avoid attention? Putting up a post asking others to lynch someone, and only that, without a solid accusation, is scummy, at least in my book.
Deathsword: Once you have your reads, could you tell us if you think that the fact that TDS died over anyone else is relevant and if so, what does it tell us.
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 10:35:13 pm
Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2014, 10:41:13 pm
Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 10:43:19 pm
Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
ten thousand years.
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2014, 10:44:05 pm
It's a serious question, I think I'm onto something.Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
ten thousand years.
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 10:45:53 pm
It's a serious question, I think I'm onto something.Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
ten thousand years.
I don't remember. How long have you been playing?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2014, 10:46:46 pm
Not as long as you. Have you been playing for at least 6 or so months?It's a serious question, I think I'm onto something.Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
ten thousand years.
I don't remember. How long have you been playing?
Post by: Caz on February 28, 2014, 10:47:37 pm
Not as long as you. Have you been playing for at least 6 or so months?It's a serious question, I think I'm onto something.Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
ten thousand years.
I don't remember. How long have you been playing?
Dunno. What's your theory?
Post by: 4maskwolf on February 28, 2014, 10:56:16 pm
*sighs* *checks forum* *finds info he needs*Not as long as you. Have you been playing for at least 6 or so months?It's a serious question, I think I'm onto something.Quick question: how long have you been playing mafia for?Caz: What is up with your posts recently? Why do you not want to share the reasoning behind your posts? This speaks of some amount of secretiveness: a power role?
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.
ten thousand years.
I don't remember. How long have you been playing?
Dunno. What's your theory?
unvote Caz
NQT You clever bastard you.
Since the game started you have been trying to eliminate the experienced players. First and only vote D1: Tiruin, who is IC'ing in the current BM and ran the last one. First night kill: TDS, an active player with several months of experience. Next target, Caz, another player who's been around for a while.
You like vote analysis so much? Then why don't you chew on that one for a little while. And while you're at it, could you explain why you chose Tiruin over ALL OF THE OTHER LURKERS. SBC contributed even less that day, but you gave him a pass in favor of lynching the more experienced player. You spent most of the day trying to convince us to lynch lurkers, most of whom had more experience than the active players.
That's why you said on day one that you didn't think that Solymr was scum. He's not as much of a threat to you, in your opinion, whereas some others might be. You said how you believed IG to be just a poor town player, and lo and behold, he was scum. I think that he had your advice on his seemingly suicidal unvote and shorten, which you then PROCEEDED TO DEFEND as "he's probably not scum, guys, he has no self-preservation".
The plaintiff rests his case.
Post by: mastahcheese on February 28, 2014, 11:47:58 pm
Speaking of NQT,
CheeseI didn't know he was scum. The way that Solymr was wording his questions seemed to me like he was pretty convinced that IG was scum, so I went on with my line of questioning under the assumption that he was. Since Solymr never thought to point this out like you have now, it made it look (to me at least) like he wasn't going to argue the point, since it seemed as if he were already sure of the fact.Actually, I'm just going to vote you, Solymr, because your answers to my questions have given me plenty more to suspect about you.What exactly did you suspect at that time? I'm looking back and your spat with Soly doesn't reflect well on you. Take this, for instance:Here you're accusing Solymr of conspiring to bus IG. But how did you even know IG was scum at that point?And I wouldn't point it out in public if there's a chance that nobody noticed it. Or if someone else makes another mistake.But, as I pointed out, MOWE had already drawn attention to it. AND (I just noticed this!) IG said that in a 5 person bandwagon, he'd suspect the 3rd, 4th, and 5th. So you made sure to act quickly to get the second spot, right? A day 1 lynch on scum is pretty much guaranteed to give you the trust of others, possibly even through a long time over many days, enough time to win without him!
What are your thoughts on this, Solymr? Because so far, I'm not liking your answers one bit.
But after the NK on DarkStar, which made no sense to me, at least from a "Solymr is scum" perspective, I decided that maybe he simply didn't think of it in that light.
I noticed that in your first post full of questions, you asked SuperBlackCat a question that he didn't answer and you never followed it up. It's easy to overlook things when you're addressing everyone but do you think his persistent absence is notable?Yeah, I overlooked that one. SBC hasn't really seemed scummy to me (or present) so I guess I wasn't focusing on them as much as other people. And yeah, I think it's notable, but not enough to warrant a lurk-lynch if that's what you're getting at.
MyOwnWorstEnemy
I'm distressed because I was being an idiot. I'm not ticked because you're calling me out on things that you think are scummy. I was being honest in my last post, not necessarily angry and I didn't intend for it to come out that way. Here's a little tidbit about me: when someone points out something I did wrong, I do get a bit angry, but I get angry at myself for not being as good as I should be, hence MyOwnWorstEnemy.I'm sorry, it seemed like you were angry at me (from my perspective of reading it) and I wasn't exactly happy when I wrote it (RL issues) so I guess I kind of snapped at everyone in that post a bit, through no fault of your's or anyone else's. I really felt like a huge jerk after I read your reply, so I'm still sorry.
Post by: Caz on March 01, 2014, 12:14:56 am
Well, frick. I was about to consider voting Caz, except for the fact that he always frelling acts like this in every game I've read/played with him,
I really hope I don't. Also more Farscape references please.
Post by: Tiruin on March 01, 2014, 01:28:09 am
Quickpost
Everyone voting Caz: Is it her emotions that bring you to vote her or something else?
Because looking at everything there? It ain't ringin' scum to me. But perhaps that's because I get the tinge that it isn't a Mafia context that's causing her playstyle to be as such.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 01, 2014, 01:55:50 am
Post by: Caz on March 01, 2014, 02:10:14 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2014, 08:19:55 am
re: NQT - you asked why I didn't follow up to IG's non-response of question. that is because he is dead and corpses tell no tales.Bullshit. He responded on Day 1 and you talked after he gave that answer.
lynching conferendates is a better strayteg imoYou're doing a terrible job of convincing us that you're not a confederate.
stuff, and nope. I'll vote NQT for rying to start a brw on me thouh.This is pure OMGUS. Do you genuinely think I'm a confederate? Why? You've active-lurked all day and you undermine your own contributions. If you don't want to play then don't play.
Wolf
NQT: I can't say there is a clear message to be gained, no. TDS died before he could give a strong opinion.So you can see where I'm coming from and you withdraw the accusation of WIFOMing? I'm glad he gave his reads though because in conjunction with the reads of everyone else an interesting picture emerges.
NQT:I don't always have lots of time to post. But regardless, I had just prior to that put up more substantial post. In fact, if you look back, in the majority of my posts I address multiple other players. As I said, I've been waiting on reads. I've been tabulating the reads in order to see who is overall the scummiest:So... could anyone tell me why we shouldn't lynch Caz?Do you have something more substantial to say, or are you restricting yourself to small posts to avoid attention? Putting up a post asking others to lynch someone, and only that, without a solid accusation, is scummy, at least in my book.
Spoiler: colour-coded reads so far (click to show/hide)
Darkpaladin and Caz are the scummiest players according to the majority of the other players. Caz's vote on me is pure OMGUS, Tiruin's points have been addressed and I expect her to unvote when she's next in the thread. As for your latest case...
Since the game started you have been trying to eliminate the experienced players.This neatly ignores my mid-Day 1 vote on Imperial Guardsman. Also, if you think, looking at Caz's play, that he's experienced then I think you need to look again. Scum have an incentive to kill competent players. I beseech you to go read the Mafia Theory thread, then you'll see that Town in general suspect more players because they're actively looking for scum and they're less afraid of drawing attention to themselves. This is what I've been doing.
First and only vote D1: Tiruin, who is IC'ing in the current BM and ran the last one.Did you even read the thread?! I voted Scientist (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5026057#msg5026057) and Imperial Guardsman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5031546#msg5031546). I've had a wider range of cases than anyone else in this game. Having a narrow range of cases or absolutely no cases is a scum tell.
First night kill: TDS, an active player with several months of experience. Next target, Caz, another player who's been around for a while.If I were scum I'd get rid of the competent active players, like you, Solymr, MOWE or Cheese. That'd make more sense than DarkStar.
You like vote analysis so much? Then why don't you chew on that one for a little while.Yes I do like vote analysis. Do you know what the major vote analytical scumtell is? The players that vote for the fewest unique targets are most likely to be scum. They are wary of drawing attention to themselves by targeting people. Good town players target the widest number of players because they genuinely suspect everyone.
Spoiler: Target analysis so far (click to show/hide)
Based on my own reads then, I'm going to unvote Caz and vote Dark Paladin as the overall most scummiest player (most suspected generally and also one of the lowest contributors in votes). Caz might yet well be scum, but we should probably lynch targets in order of suspiciousness. Dark Paladin, if you want to turn this around, give us your reads on everyone and make a case.
And while you're at it, could you explain why you chose Tiruin over ALL OF THE OTHER LURKERS. SBC contributed even less that day, but you gave him a pass in favor of lynching the more experienced player. You spent most of the day trying to convince us to lynch lurkers, most of whom had more experience than the active players.I've already explained why I voted Tiruin. But, here, let me remind you. This is what I said at the time:
TiruinAddressing the stuffs later on.I look forward to seeing this. We don't have forever left in the day so don't take too long. Before you ask 'is this a pressure vote?', yes, it is a pressure vote. You've posted a grand total of once since the game began. I can understand that real life can get in the way, that's OK, but I'd really like to see a bit more from you before the end of the day.
So you see at the time of my vote, Tiruin had contributed the least in the game. I wanted to hear more from her, so I laid down a pressure vote. This is a legitimate strategy for inducing players to contribute. For a pressure vote to have force then you have to carry it out if they don't deliver, Tiruin didn't deliver so I kept the vote. Now sure, by the end of the day, SBC had contributed less, but also by the end of the day it wasn't as if switching ym vote to him would have done anything. And you'll see that I didn't ignore him completely. Unlike most of the other players in this game, I'm trying hard to keep tabs on everyone and encourage people to contribute:
Superblackcat, DarkPaladin
You've both posted a total of three times since the game began. Do you plan to use your vote before the day ends? Who do you think is the most suspicious player?
That's why you said on day one that you didn't think that Solymr was scum. He's not as much of a threat to you, in your opinion, whereas some others might be. You said how you believed IG to be just a poor town player, and lo and behold, he was scum. I think that he had your advice on his seemingly suicidal unvote and shorten, which you then PROCEEDED TO DEFEND as "he's probably not scum, guys, he has no self-preservation".You'll see that, as the town cop, I made the exact same defence of a suicidal player (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=120310.msg3944015#msg3944015)(who, lo and behold, turned out to be town) over a year ago. I was wrong this time.
The plaintiff rests his case.It pleases me that you've put a lot of effort into trying to figure things out and get to the truth. This is good play. BU#ut good play also involves not becoming emotionally invested in your own cases and recognising where you're wrong. And you are wrong about this, as hopefully I've been able to clearly show. Your argument rests on the faulty premise that I've only been targeting experienced players, and also that a player that makes strong use of their vote is scummier than players that don't vote at all. Reflect deeply Wolf, do you really think I'm the scummiest player in the game?
Cheese
Well, frick. I was about to consider voting Caz, except for the fact that he always frelling acts like this in every game I've read/played with him, but Wolf makes a pretty compelling point, I hadn't even considered that. I'm really wanting to see your response to that, NQT.Caz always acts like this? Interesting. What do you think of my reply to Wolf?
I didn't know he was scum. The way that Solymr was wording his questions seemed to me like he was pretty convinced that IG was scum, so I went on with my line of questioning under the assumption that he was. Since Solymr never thought to point this out like you have now, it made it look (to me at least) like he wasn't going to argue the point, since it seemed as if he were already sure of the fact.That puts your comments into a bit more perspective, thanks.
But after the NK on DarkStar, which made no sense to me, at least from a "Solymr is scum" perspective, I decided that maybe he simply didn't think of it in that light.
Yeah, I overlooked that one. SBC hasn't really seemed scummy to me (or present) so I guess I wasn't focusing on them as much as other people. And yeah, I think it's notable, but not enough to warrant a lurk-lynch if that's what you're getting at.Well, we've got so many inactive players right now that it's probable best to get rid of the more suspicious of the active lurkers first.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2014, 08:25:03 am
Post by: Persus13 on March 01, 2014, 02:12:22 pm
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Tiruin, 4maskwolf, Caz
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- notquitethere
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
+!!scientist!!+-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, +!!scientist!!+, mastahcheese, MOWE, Solymr,
0 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 2 has been extended to Monday March 3rd, and will end at 11:00 PM EST
Post by: Solymr on March 01, 2014, 03:23:48 pm
NQT:
You seem to be fond of attacking lurkers. Now that Caz answered you, you switch to DP. Not sure why didn't you attack SBC, too obvious?
Caz:
Seems to have stopped caring about the posts. Not sure if confident or has given up.
DP:
Acting most suspicious from long time and still not posting much.
I'm not sure who to vote out of these three right now.
Post by: notquitethere on March 01, 2014, 04:06:17 pm
- They've been active on the forum but their only action here has been to say that they want to avoid attention.
- They've made no cases: this is something scum and third parties often do.
- We can't have players like this responsible for deciding town's fate at LYLO. That's how town loses games.
Do you disagree with any of these points? I'm current lynch target, it behooves you to be sure I'm the best candidate to be lynched today.
Post by: Silthuri on March 01, 2014, 05:00:43 pm
Secondly, Solymr,
How would NQT attacking SBC be too obvious?
Thirdly, mastahcheese, upon looking back at the goings on lately, you've been acting very differently than you were in the BM. D1 you went after Solymr and basically ignored IG, pursuing Solymr relentlessly and seeming to think that every little oddly worded phrase was a scumtell. He even told you that English isn't his first language and small little inconsistencies in his wording arose from this. Even with IG and all of his slips and tells, you never abandoned your pursuit of Solymr. Even when it was just down to small little things like when Solymr said this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037644#msg5037644) and you said this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037655#msg5037655) And then you called him out here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037914#msg5037914). I fail to see how this is scummy. I was town in my first mafia game and I was constantly asking myself "is this how a townie should act?" because I didn't want to mess up and give off any scum tells. I do believe Solymr is town and that you were trying your damnedest to catch him in a slip. Yet it's D2 and you've dropped your case on him. Were you trying to save IG by drawing attention away from him and now that it's not a very worthwhile endeavor, you've moved on to other things?
And last but not least...
Tiruin:
MOWEI'm not entirely sure there is a difference between a town-slip and a scum-slip, aside from one being an innocent slip and the other not so innocent. After one makes a slip, town or scum, how they react to accusations can tell a lot about them. For example, getting extremely defensive in the face of accusation is pretty scummy.Tiruin:Hmm, interesting. You see this as a game of when people will slip and see differing mindset-actions according to role or alignment. Admirable.Everyone else: Do you seriously believe that today should be spent in debate and all? What if the scumteam knows how to circumnavigate the usual 'scumtells' and play easy? As in, play on the aggressive?Well I think D1 can be a bunch of debate. What else could it be? Lies are easy to keep to in the beginning, but are hard to maintain over time. Here's where we begin testing the mettle of the scum and seeing how good they are at acting. There is no such thing as perfect. The scumteam may know how to avoid most scumtells, but odds are they'll slip up somewhere.
How do you treat scumtells when done by a player who has a reputation of being scummy? How do you treat analysis from a player who has a reputation of being 'good' at hiding scumtells?[/b]
Scummy players also have a norm I would guess. Even if they're scummy as town, I'd expect the scumminess when they're actually scum to be quite different. If they're good at hiding scumtells, well like I said, they have to slip up sometime.
What else can D1 be varies according to what the people put into it--the best way to aim is to follow it up, meaning rather than a debate of two specified fronts, it turns to a general attitude of discernment and curiosity. Which means a bunch of words to look back on.
Though I do agree with most here: how would you discern a town-slip from a scum-slip? Is it in their reaction, their response, or how they do so-or anything else?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 01, 2014, 09:41:07 pm
Quote from: NQT
This neatly ignores my mid-Day 1 vote on Imperial Guardsman. Also, if you think, looking at Caz's play, that he's experienced then I think you need to look again. Scum have an incentive to kill competent players.On the flip side of that coin, a player who has played in more games with you likely has a better feel for your playstyle and can likely more easily identify your scumtells. Despite whatever incompetence you may ascribe to the person, that, at the very least, is true. You conveniently ignore this point in your analysis, however.
Quote from: NQT
Did you even read the thread?! I voted Scientist and Imperial Guardsman. I've had a wider range of cases than anyone else in this game. Having a narrow range of cases or absolutely no cases is a scum tell.My apologies, I appear to have missed those votes of yours. I'll freely admit that I'm wrong on this point. However:
Quote from: NQT
If I were scum I'd get rid of the competent active players, like you, Solymr, MOWE or Cheese. That'd make more sense than DarkStar.While I am flattered by being called competent, MOWE was not particularly active day 1, as you yourself noted in a previous post. So why is she on your list of ACTIVE players? Scientist was almost as active day one and he didn't make the list. Smells like trying to protect a scumbuddy to me.
Quote from: NQT
You'll see that, as the town cop, I made the exact same defence of a suicidal player (who, lo and behold, turned out to be town) over a year ago. I was wrong this timeOver a year ago. You have a good memory for your games, but that doesn't change the fact that this time you were wrong. Last time you had the benefit of being a cop; this time, I can only assume that you knew alignment through being mafia. Frankly, if a player does a suicide like that they either aren't that interested in playing the game anymore (or downright done with the game, see me in day 2 of the last beginner mafia) or they are a scum trying to play a WIFOM game with the town.
Quote from: NQT
It pleases me that you've put a lot of effort into trying to figure things out and get to the truth. This is good play. BU#ut good play also involves not becoming emotionally invested in your own cases and recognising where you're wrong. And you are wrong about this, as hopefully I've been able to clearly show. Your argument rests on the faulty premise that I've only been targeting experienced players, and also that a player that makes strong use of their vote is scummier than players that don't vote at all. Reflect deeply Wolf, do you really think I'm the scummiest player in the game?My argument never rested on the concept of a strong voter being scummy, it rested on WHO you voted for. It is also telling that, upon this accusation, you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote to a new player. I probably would have unvoted you had it not been for that, but the blatant redirection set off my internal scum alarm.
No, you are not the scummiest player in the game, that is reserved for DP. If you notice, I voted for him at the beginning of the day. But an inactive scumplayer is far less of a threat than an active one, and far better the evil we know than the evil we don't.
Also, I'm pretty sure that comma in the last sentence should have been a semicolon. :P It set off my grammar alarms.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 01, 2014, 10:50:54 pm
If I were scum I'd get rid of the competent active players, like you, Solymr, MOWE or Cheese. That'd make more sense than DarkStar.You consider me competent?
Cheese[1] Well, in here and Semeter w love or whatever it's called, which is 100% of the games I've been in them with.Well, frick. I was about to consider voting Caz, except for the fact that he always frelling acts like this in every game I've read/played with him, but Wolf makes a pretty compelling point, I hadn't even considered that. I'm really wanting to see your response to that, NQT.[1] Caz always acts like this? Interesting. [2] What do you think of my reply to Wolf?I didn't know he was scum. The way that Solymr was wording his questions seemed to me like he was pretty convinced that IG was scum, so I went on with my line of questioning under the assumption that he was. Since Solymr never thought to point this out like you have now, it made it look (to me at least) like he wasn't going to argue the point, since it seemed as if he were already sure of the fact.That puts your comments into a bit more perspective, thanks.
But after the NK on DarkStar, which made no sense to me, at least from a "Solymr is scum" perspective, I decided that maybe he simply didn't think of it in that light.Yeah, I overlooked that one. SBC hasn't really seemed scummy to me (or present) so I guess I wasn't focusing on them as much as other people. And yeah, I think it's notable, but not enough to warrant a lurk-lynch if that's what you're getting at.Well, we've got so many inactive players right now that it's probable best to get rid of the more suspicious of the active lurkers first.
[2] Logical, laid out very well and covers all the points. I'm not going to say "NQT is 100% town" because there's always the possibility, but I can't find any fault through it.
MyOwnWorstEnemy
Thirdly, mastahcheese, upon looking back at the goings on lately, [1] you've been acting very differently than you were in the BM. [2] D1 you went after Solymr and basically ignored IG, pursuing Solymr relentlessly and seeming to think that every little oddly worded phrase was a scumtell. He even told you that English isn't his first language and small little inconsistencies in his wording arose from this. Even with IG and all of his slips and tells, you never abandoned your pursuit of Solymr. Even when it was just down to small little things like when Solymr said this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037644#msg5037644) and you said this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037655#msg5037655) And then you called him out here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5037914#msg5037914). I fail to see how this is scummy. [3] I was town in my first mafia game and I was constantly asking myself "is this how a townie should act?" because I didn't want to mess up and give off any scum tells. [4] I do believe Solymr is town and that you were trying your damnedest to catch him in a slip. [5] Yet it's D2 and you've dropped your case on him. [6] Were you trying to save IG by drawing attention away from him and now that it's not a very worthwhile endeavor, you've moved on to other things?[1] Do you expect me to act the same way all the time? I can try different strategies.
[2] Yes, I do tend to look at everything someone says (when I'm pushing them) as a scumtell, in one way or another. The reason I do this is so I don't let the pressure off, hoping that eventually they crack. Look back at the very BM you referenced. Did I not do the same to 4maskwolf, until eventually he outed himself as cop? (and subsequently got lynched) It's a style, maybe not a very good one, but it seemed to work on Makeinu in that game, and then 4mask, so in my eyes, being relentless, even somewhat unreasonably so (in some people's eyes) gets results.
The reason I was ignoring IG at the time was because I decided to focus on a single target. There were already people going after IG, and I prefer to be the main voice when pressuring someone, not simply an additional one. I don't think my method would work as well if I didn't have the person's total attention. Again, look back at the BM on my cases on Makeinu and 4mask.
[3] There was some point in that BM where I mentioned this, in some regard. That I simply don't care about being noticed, or looking scummy, because I don't care if people see me as scummy or not. I don't care if town wants me dead, I don't care if scum wants me dead. I'm going to go after scum, and if someone doesn't like that, then they're entitled to that view, because I've got cases to press.
[4] Like I said earlier, I could be wrong. I could be wrong on every single person I've had suspicions on. It's part of the game. I thought he looked scummy at the time, you didn't.
[5] Here, let me go find that explanation again. Ah, here is it, in my analysis of DarkStar's final moments.
The reason I dropped the case is because to me, DarkStar's death looked like a set up. He had pretty much no major cases on anyone (he basically thought practically everyone was slightly leaning scum), but he had minor cases on Solymr and DarkPaladin. I suspect that whoever killed DarkStar was hoping that someone would try to use this, and go after Solymr, since, you know, pretty much everyone has pointed out the problems with DP. I could be wretchedly overthinking this, but it made me second guess myself on Solymr.Currently, I'm confused about why multiple people are seriously considering lynching IG. NQT's argument is that IG won't seriously answer a question, and Solymr doesn't like the answer that IG gave for another question. NQT's argument would work with other evidence, but Solymr's argument makes no sense. If IG was scum, he'd probably give a more detailed scum answer than town answer, since he would have spent much more time thinking about what to do as scum than town.It seems to me like he had his suspicions on Solymr. I could go back to my argument of the possibility of Solymr being scum, and offing him to get rid of the only person other than me to have suspicions on him, since just killing me would too obvious of a scumtell. But then again, it also seems like the sort of thing that scum would set up to frame him with, knowing that I'm going after him...
I going to give you the benefit of a doubt on this one, Solymr, I don't think you did it. But I'm still watching you.
[6] No, I wasn't trying to save him, I was just trying to think beyond what everyone else was thinking about.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 12:03:43 am
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 12:19:29 am
I will post tomorrow. If you guys are feeling particularly nice, you could quote and drop all your questions/important things you want me to address below, so I don't have to read as much.
*yawn-snore*
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2014, 08:49:23 am
Wolf
NQT: You make a convincing argument, but there are a few points in your answer that make me uncomfortable removing the vote. See the following:Following up on unsettled suspicions is good. Ok:
On the flip side of that coin, a player who has played in more games with you likely has a better feel for your playstyle and can likely more easily identify your scumtells. Despite whatever incompetence you may ascribe to the person, that, at the very least, is true. You conveniently ignore this point in your analysis, however.Conveniently ignore or don't take scum thought process into account because I'm not actually scum? You seem to have already made your mind up on the matter and are now twisting the evidence to support your theory. But look it works both ways: the only player Tiruin has voted in this game is me. Does that mean she's trying to silence the only players that can recognise her scumtells?
While I am flattered by being called competent, MOWE was not particularly active day 1, as you yourself noted in a previous post. So why is she on your list of ACTIVE players? Scientist was almost as active day one and he didn't make the list. Smells like trying to protect a scumbuddy to me.OK, MOWE wasn't super active, but she was super effective at lynching scum and she did keep posting (if infrequently) throughout the day, whereas Scientist forgot about the existence of Bay12 after the 22nd. I'm not sure this amounts to protecting Scientist, or Deathsword as it now is.
Over a year ago. You have a good memory for your games, but that doesn't change the fact that this time you were wrong. Last time you had the benefit of being a cop; this time, I can only assume that you knew alignment through being mafia.Nope, if you actually clicked the link through you would have seen that I made that argument as a cop on Day 1, before I had any information from inspects.
Frankly, if a player does a suicide like that they either aren't that interested in playing the game anymore (or downright done with the game, see me in day 2 of the last beginner mafia) or they are a scum trying to play a WIFOM game with the town.Quite possibly, though I'd previously always taken it as the kind of mistake an inexperienced player who isn't receiving advice would make. I've definitely taken it off my mental list of town reads now. I've shown you that I was under the impression before that this was a town tell. This is the same situation I was in a year ago.
My argument never rested on the concept of a strong voter being scummy, it rested on WHO you voted for. It is also telling that, upon this accusation, you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote to a new player. I probably would have unvoted you had it not been for that, but the blatant redirection set off my internal scum alarm.I see, and, having presented my analysis to you that showed on both metrics that DP was scummier than Caz, if I had kept my vote on Caz would that have looked less suspicious? I somehow feel I'm in a no-win situation here.
In the course of replying to you, I finished off some of the analysis that I had said I was performing and it pointed to a different target. You can look at people's reads and the vote log yourself and see how I came to change my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still think Caz is very scummy, but I've come to realise that DP is currently worse and so that's the person I should vote.
No, you are not the scummiest player in the game, that is reserved for DP. If you notice, I voted for him at the beginning of the day. But an inactive scumplayer is far less of a threat than an active one, and far better the evil we know than the evil we don't.Ah, I would say far better that you have active players in the game that can be called on to vote and justify their votes, than inactive scum that sit back and let the town kill themselves, while still being free to send in their night kills. Pure and simple: we should be voting the scummiest players. And we should not idly let players be lyched by weak cases. I can explain and justify my actions and my votes. Can DP? Are Tiruin and Caz justifying their votes on me? Look at their cases: you'll see they have none. I'm waiting for them to explain or unvote but I'm beginning to suspect that they think they can get away with it.
SBC
Mostly, I wanted to have your reads on the other players. These won't be well informed if you don't actually read the thread though.
Cheese
You consider me competent?Compared to some of the other players, definitely.
As you seem to be paying some attention: do you think Caz's vote on me has merit? What about Tiruin? We all need to be damn sure players who are lynched are lynched on strong cases.
Also why aren't you voting? The vote is the weapon of town. By passively allowing a player you don't think particularly scummy to be lynched you are saying you don't really care about catching scum.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 10:51:46 am
I'm not on a computer (stuck on phone) until Tuesday. Still haven't heard from Deathsword or Dark Pal, so best extend.Unvote NQT
WolfNQT: You make a convincing argument, but there are a few points in your answer that make me uncomfortable removing the vote. See the following:Following up on unsettled suspicions is good. Ok:On the flip side of that coin, a player who has played in more games with you likely has a better feel for your playstyle and can likely more easily identify your scumtells. Despite whatever incompetence you may ascribe to the person, that, at the very least, is true. You conveniently ignore this point in your analysis, however.Conveniently ignore or don't take scum thought process into account because I'm not actually scum? You seem to have already made your mind up on the matter and are now twisting the evidence to support your theory. But look it works both ways: the only player Tiruin has voted in this game is me. Does that mean she's trying to silence the only players that can recognise her scumtells?While I am flattered by being called competent, MOWE was not particularly active day 1, as you yourself noted in a previous post. So why is she on your list of ACTIVE players? Scientist was almost as active day one and he didn't make the list. Smells like trying to protect a scumbuddy to me.OK, MOWE wasn't super active, but she was super effective at lynching scum and she did keep posting (if infrequently) throughout the day, whereas Scientist forgot about the existence of Bay12 after the 22nd. I'm not sure this amounts to protecting Scientist, or Deathsword as it now is.Over a year ago. You have a good memory for your games, but that doesn't change the fact that this time you were wrong. Last time you had the benefit of being a cop; this time, I can only assume that you knew alignment through being mafia.Nope, if you actually clicked the link through you would have seen that I made that argument as a cop on Day 1, before I had any information from inspects.
Frankly, if a player does a suicide like that they either aren't that interested in playing the game anymore (or downright done with the game, see me in day 2 of the last beginner mafia) or they are a scum trying to play a WIFOM game with the town.Quite possibly, though I'd previously always taken it as the kind of mistake an inexperienced player who isn't receiving advice would make. I've definitely taken it off my mental list of town reads now. I've shown you that I was under the impression before that this was a town tell. This is the same situation I was in a year ago.
My argument never rested on the concept of a strong voter being scummy, it rested on WHO you voted for. It is also telling that, upon this accusation, you IMMEDIATELY switched your vote to a new player. I probably would have unvoted you had it not been for that, but the blatant redirection set off my internal scum alarm.I see, and, having presented my analysis to you that showed on both metrics that DP was scummier than Caz, if I had kept my vote on Caz would that have looked less suspicious? I somehow feel I'm in a no-win situation here.
In the course of replying to you, I finished off some of the analysis that I had said I was performing and it pointed to a different target. You can look at people's reads and the vote log yourself and see how I came to change my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I still think Caz is very scummy, but I've come to realise that DP is currently worse and so that's the person I should vote.
No, you are not the scummiest player in the game, that is reserved for DP. If you notice, I voted for him at the beginning of the day. But an inactive scumplayer is far less of a threat than an active one, and far better the evil we know than the evil we don't.Ah, I would say far better that you have active players in the game that can be called on to vote and justify their votes, than inactive scum that sit back and let the town kill themselves, while still being free to send in their night kills. Pure and simple: we should be voting the scummiest players. And we should not idly let players be lyched by weak cases. I can explain and justify my actions and my votes. Can DP? Are Tiruin and Caz justifying their votes on me? Look at their cases: you'll see they have none. I'm waiting for them to explain or unvote but I'm beginning to suspect that they think they can get away with it.
I could be being massively played here, but you don't seem like scum to me. Yes, it would have been less scummy to maintain your vote, at least in that post: it gave the impression that you were attempting to break the trend I set forth so that you could claim otherwise. At least, that's the way I viewed it, but nothing else is sending up alarms in my head.
Deathsword
You have yet to come through on the promised reads, which is slightly suspicious (though more likely just real life getting in the way). However, if it was the scum team who was inactive last night, there are three possibilities: MOWE, you, and SBC. MOWE is clear for lynching IG, so if that is the case we have our scumteam in a bag.
If it was the bad who was inactive, then you, SBC, or MOWE is the bad. None of you are off the hook for it, but the chance of lynching the serial killer is decent. This would point to a scumteam of new players, who wouldn't realize that TDS wasn't a big threat yet. My guess is DP and a lurker, so a one thirds chance of lynching the SK plus a one thirds chance of lynching scum makes a two thirds chance that, under these conditions, your lynching would be beneficial to the town.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 12:11:53 pm
Extend, we need more time for people to talk. We also need more active players being here, but at least SBC is going to be here soon. Speaking of which:
SBC: What do you think of the players so far? What can you glean from the activities of last night? Who do you believe performed the kill?
Solymr: I just saw you on BM, and I hope you will be posting here soon. Anyways, I'd like to hear your opinions on who is scum and not scum and an answer to this: why haven't you wielded your vote yet?
Also, Persus: do the third parties count as town for the purpose of when the game ends? So, for instance, if there were two scum, two town, the bad, and the ugly left, would the scum win or would the game continue? This is important for how much time and leeway we have in lynches.
Post by: Solymr on March 02, 2014, 12:32:42 pm
I don't want to vote NQT because he's been far more useful than the other two. I have good reasons to vote for the other two suspects but I'm not sure who is more suspicious. I'm sure I don't want a no lynch happening, or anyone of those getting away, so I'll vote in case there's a tie.
And isn't it a little late to be pressure voting?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 12:35:28 pm
4maskwolfThe Deathsword vote isn't a pressure vote, you apparently didn't read the text that followed. If you have a problem with the logic, feel free to bring it up, but calling it a pressure vote is a misrepresentation.
I don't want to vote NQT because he's been far more useful than the other two. I have good reasons to vote for the other two suspects but I'm not sure who is more suspicious. I'm sure I don't want a no lynch happening, or anyone of those getting away, so I'll vote in case there's a tie.
And isn't it a little late to be pressure voting?
What made you think it was a pressure vote, hmm?
Post by: Solymr on March 02, 2014, 12:59:05 pm
Also your calculations of the chances of his lynching being beneficial to town is faulty. I get around 50% chances of him being SK or scum according to your reasoning, which I don't like either because your set of suspects is different to mine.
I thought it was a pressure vote because Deathsword just replaced scientist and hasn't posted much.
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2014, 01:04:45 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 02, 2014, 01:06:40 pm
Argh these last fewd ays.
Post by: Solymr on March 02, 2014, 01:16:32 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 01:17:35 pm
Extend. and reading
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 01:24:40 pm
[1]You assume that one of the possible night killers was inactive instead of just not wanting to kill anyone to mess with us. That possibility is still up.[1] I don't see how it is ever in the benefit of the scum or a SK not to kill. Even if it means killing a lurker, that is one fewer player you have to deal with, which almost always offsets the possible confusion benefits of not killing.
Also your calculations of the chances of his lynching being beneficial to town is faulty. I get around 50% chances of him being SK or scum according to your reasoning, which [2]I don't like either because your set of suspects is different to mine.
[3]I thought it was a pressure vote because Deathsword just replaced scientist and hasn't posted much.
[2] Your set of suspects, as seen previously, appears to intersect with mine: I still think that DP is likely scum, and say as much during my analysis. I don't have a good read on Caz because he refuses to say much, which apparently is typical for Caz. I already devoted time to cross-examining NQT and do not believe him to be scum, as I have already stated.
[3] This indicates that you did not read my post, which is somewhat suspicious seeing as how you responded to it. Looking for easy targets, Solymr?
PPE: I see, voting for DP. And SBC, welcome back.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 01:51:28 pm
First of all. Tiruin: Why did you edit a post, and why did no one call her out on it? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5043360#msg5043360
Secondly: NQT, Why is Solymr and MOWE least likely to be scum? Other than the vote d1. I'd say Solymr is active lurking.
MOWE: mastahcheese played like this last game. Whenever he does attack someone, it turns into a tunnel like attack. He caught a very minor thing of Makeinu's, and tunneled him to death. He did not focus on multiple people last game, so I'm wondering why you ask this?
Caz: What in the world happened? Are you alright? I'm pretty sure you didn't post like this in the previous game I was in with you.
NQT: You say that you made Solymr not tie in order to lynch IG, but at the same time, you also were defending IG.
Trying to manipulate words and make them seem like you are the best in all worlds?
All: The TDS NK seems to be several possibilities:
1) Scum NKed, Bad did nothing/inactive
2) Scum inactive, Bad Killed
3) Scum checked, Bad Killed.
Seeing how there is a 3rd party killing role, I think that it is quite likely for there to be only two scum. Which means that the second scum can't check someone and NK at the same time. Meaning that both Bad and Scum could be active, and only result in one kill, with both sending in an action at night.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 01:55:23 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 01:59:30 pm
Also isn't it beneficial for the 3rd parties to join with the Union? Since they end up with a union wincom anyways. Since the Ugly is basically Immune to NKs, and the Bad could also be a vig for town, as well as a SK, depending who is Bad.
The Good is a mason with Ugly with a one shot night kill.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2014, 02:06:17 pm
Also, Persus: do the third parties count as town for the purpose of when the game ends? So, for instance, if there were two scum, two town, the bad, and the ugly left, would the scum win or would the game continue? This is important for how much time and leeway we have in lynches.The game ends when Mafia or Town can't be stopped from winning. In your proposed scenario, that is not the case because the Bad is still in play, and the Ugly has a town wincon and so would care about finding scum.
Hmmm,Firstly, there are 3 scum in total, currently 2 scum remaining.
Also isn't it beneficial for the 3rd parties to join with the Union? Since they end up with a union wincom anyways. Since the Ugly is basically Immune to NKs, and the Bad could also be a vig for town, as well as a SK, depending who is Bad.
The Good is a mason with Ugly with a one shot night kill.
Your definition of The Good is accurate, but the Ugly is only immune to an Nk once.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 02:08:58 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 02:48:18 pm
I... don't remember this from the OP. I, too, was under the impression that the Ugly is perma-immune to the confederate NK.Also, Persus: do the third parties count as town for the purpose of when the game ends? So, for instance, if there were two scum, two town, the bad, and the ugly left, would the scum win or would the game continue? This is important for how much time and leeway we have in lynches.The game ends when Mafia or Town can't be stopped from winning. In your proposed scenario, that is not the case because the Bad is still in play, and the Ugly has a town wincon and so would care about finding scum.Hmmm,Firstly, there are 3 scum in total, currently 2 scum remaining.
Also isn't it beneficial for the 3rd parties to join with the Union? Since they end up with a union wincom anyways. Since the Ugly is basically Immune to NKs, and the Bad could also be a vig for town, as well as a SK, depending who is Bad.
The Good is a mason with Ugly with a one shot night kill.
Your definition of The Good is accurate, but the Ugly is only immune to an Nk once.
Post by: Persus13 on March 02, 2014, 02:50:50 pm
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2014, 06:12:14 pm
Solymr, MOWE, You guys are the least likeliest to be scum.
Why do you think this btw?
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2014, 06:14:58 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 06:22:16 pm
I believe the same thing, and here's why:Solymr, MOWE, You guys are the least likeliest to be scum.
Why do you think this btw?
It was a one vote margin that lynched IG. And he never had more than two people on him. Either one of them could have voted someone else on some trumped up charge or another and switched the vote from him. They didn't, and Solymr was active towards the end of the day, meaning that neither of them is likely scum because neither of them is stupid enough to bus an ally like that. Doing something like that D1 over a non-scum lynch is a level of bad play beyond anything I have ever seen.
You've been somewhat active, Caz. Don't think that I've forgotten you. You should have known that from the multiplicity of comments along those lines today. Do you truly believe that NQT is scum? Or is your vote just an OMGUS? If you believe he is scum, could you say why? Putting your suspicions out there is the only way we will know what you think and see your reasoning.
PPE: Also, the bad kills the ugly if he tries that. The ugly is only immune to the confederate nk, if I read that correctly. And that is bad logic, because if that was the case a confederate would have died, which didn't happen.
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2014, 06:23:23 pm
Secondly: NQT, Why is Solymr and MOWE least likely to be scum? Other than the vote d1. I'd say Solymr is actively lurking.I really want to see more activity from both of them. Soly did have the highest post count D1. But look, there was no real need for them to bus a scum buddy at that stage. It happens sometimes, it just doesn't seem that likely.
NQT: You say that you made Solymr not tie in order to lynch IG, but at the same time, you also were defending IG.Hah, I can see how it might look that way. I genuinely didn't think IG was scum-- I'd have thought he'd behave more sensibly. At the same time, I really didn't think Solymr was scum as they were the most active player (in post count): a town tell in my book.
Trying to manipulate words and make them seem like you are the best in all worlds?
All: The TDS NK seems to be several possibilities:Or, perhaps less likely, they both targeted Dark Star.
1) Scum NKed, Bad did nothing/inactive
2) Scum inactive, Bad Killed
3) Scum checked, Bad Killed.
Seeing how there is a 3rd party killing role, I think that it is quite likely for there to be only two scum. Which means that the second scum can't check someone and NK at the same time. Meaning that both Bad and Scum could be active, and only result in one kill, with both sending in an action at night.There are two scum left, meaning they can inspect and kill in the same night so 3's out of the question. It's possible that both scum were inactive players, but it seems more likely that it was the Bad that was absent.
Caz
Why do you think this btw?Soly and MOWE lynched IG, who was scum. Bussing happens, but it doesn't seem likely for a D1 lynch. Right now they're the best candidates for towndom.
Why are you even voting me, Caz? I explained why I was voting for you before and I've explained my new vote on Dark Pal. What's your case against me? So far it looks like just a retaliatory vote.
Reason for one kill could be the Bad/maf hitting the Ugly also.I think you need to reread the OP. If the Bad targeted the Ugly, the Ugly would be dead. If the Confeds had targeted the Ugly, one of them would be dead.
Post by: Teneb on March 02, 2014, 06:27:22 pm
Deathsword: Once you have your reads, could you tell us if you think that the fact that TDS died over anyone else is relevant and if so, what does it tell us.A nightkill is usually performed to remove a potentially troublesome adversary or thin the town's numbers by removing someone who can't be traced back to the scum. Or it may have been a third-party nightkill.
DeathswordIt's a weekend, on top of that Carnaval. Anyway, most of my time on the forums was taken by making and discarding cases on various people as I read through the thread.
You have yet to come through on the promised reads, which is slightly suspicious (though more likely just real life getting in the way). However, if it was the scum team who was inactive last night, there are three possibilities: MOWE, you, and SBC. MOWE is clear for lynching IG, so if that is the case we have our scumteam in a bag.
If it was the bad who was inactive, then you, SBC, or MOWE is the bad. None of you are off the hook for it, but the chance of lynching the serial killer is decent. This would point to a scumteam of new players, who wouldn't realize that TDS wasn't a big threat yet. My guess is DP and a lurker, so a one thirds chance of lynching the SK plus a one thirds chance of lynching scum makes a two thirds chance that, under these conditions, your lynching would be beneficial to the town.
I got two solid reads right now: Caz and you. My gut leans towards you being town, and I've seen some solid play coming out of you. So either good town or very good scum, but town is more likely. I'd bet Caz is one of the third-parties, merely wanting to find his target while staying out of the sights of town and scum.
Right now I currently suspect two player of being possible scum. An actual case on either of them will appear either later today or early tomorrow, depending on how many times I get distracted.
Extend
Alrighty then, I'll vote for darkpaladin because I'm pretty much sure he isn't town, and because I have my doubts about why would Caz act like that.Why are you sure he isn't town? Where is the proof? How about some quotes?
Post by: notquitethere on March 02, 2014, 06:30:10 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 06:32:53 pm
SBC, read the game start and the OP. There are three scum. However, you are on to something there: it is possible that the active scum was the CG, and inspected hoping that his/her scumbuddy would perform the kill. However, this is pure speculation at this point.Seeing how there is a 3rd party killing role, I think that it is quite likely for there to be only two scum. Which means that the second scum can't check someone and NK at the same time. Meaning that both Bad and Scum could be active, and only result in one kill, with both sending in an action at night.There are two scum left, meaning they can inspect and kill in the same night so 3's out of the question. It's possible that both scum were inactive players, but it seems more likely that it was the Bad that was absent.
Congratulations, NQT, you are back on the suspicion list. What you said there was was EXACTLY the opposite of what you said at day start, indicating that you are making this up as you go. Here's the post in question, clipped for size to the relevant line:
My analysis is thus:I think it more likely that it is scum that is absent, given that Darkstar was essentially harmless to scum— he cast no votes and had no strong suspicions.
The bad is absent: there was only one nightkill, and it is more likely that a single player is absent than for both remaining scum to be gone.
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2014, 06:35:06 pm
yea, that makes sense.
Why are you even voting me, Caz? I explained why I was voting for you before and I've explained my new vote on Dark Pal. What's your case against me? So far it looks like just a retaliatory vote.Not sure. How can the vote be retaliatory?
Reason for one kill could be the Bad/maf hitting the Ugly also.I think you need to reread the OP. If the Bad targeted the Ugly, the Ugly would be dead. If the Confeds had targeted the Ugly, one of them would be dead.
[/quote]
I thought Ugly was nk immune?
Darkpaladin even wins out ahead of me of being the most useless player here. Would like at least one defensive post from him though. I still think he's 3rd party over scum.
Post by: Caz on March 02, 2014, 06:35:57 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 06:39:08 pm
Darkpaladin even wins out ahead of me of being the most useless player here. Would like at least one defensive post from him though. I still think he's 3rd party over scum.Caz, is something up? You don't seem to be very engaged at all, apparently less so that usual, and you call yourself the most useless player here... If something is wrong you don't have to tell us, and if something isn't I'm fussing over nothing, but your posts just strike me as being rather self-derogatory in many ways.
Post by: Tiruin on March 02, 2014, 06:42:18 pm
Also, still waiting on full reads from SBC, Dark Pal, Tiruin and Deathsword. The day's been extended now so we've got time.Will post this probably later. Am real sad. Also, naso-pharynx is muchly inflamed. Not doing well enough to do anything important.
Reading up.
Hopefully posting later.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 02, 2014, 07:06:16 pm
4maskwolfCan someone please point out to me how this phrase is not worth mentioning? That is a scum tactic, in case everyone forgot.
I don't want to vote NQT because he's been far more useful than the other two. I have good reasons to vote for the other two suspects but I'm not sure who is more suspicious. I'm sure I don't want a no lynch happening, or anyone of those getting away, so I'll vote in case there's a tie.
notquitethere
Cheese[1] No. Caz is acting rather irrational, if not slightly insane.
You consider me competent?Compared to some of the other players, definitely.
As you seem to be paying some attention: [1] do you think Caz's vote on me has merit? [2] What about Tiruin? We all need to be damn sure players who are lynched are lynched on strong cases.
[3] Also why aren't you voting? The vote is the weapon of town. By passively allowing a player you don't think particularly scummy to be lynched you are saying you don't really care about catching scum.
[2] Tiruin actually made some points in her argument. I can understand her reasons for making cases on you, regardless on if I agree or disagree. Right now I'm on the fence.
[3] Because I am unsure of who to vote, there are a lot of reasons to vote for one person or the other. At the end of this post, I'll vote for who I believe to be the scummiest, or at least the person most needing of being lynched.
Ok, I've finished reading everything up to this point, so I'll vote DarkPaladin, although like most people have said, I think he may very well be a third party.
I'm also getting the feeling of Caz being third party, but I don't know.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 07:11:54 pm
PFPCaz is a she? Well, I did not realize that, nor was I ever corrected. My apologies, Caz, if that offended or bothered you. Your profile doesn't have a gender specified.
Quickpost
Everyone voting Caz: Is it her emotions that bring you to vote her or something else?
Because looking at everything there? It ain't ringin' scum to me. But perhaps that's because I get the tinge that it isn't a Mafia context that's causing her playstyle to be as such.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 08:57:29 pm
4mask: Seems mostly town, doesn't seem to have any problems. Pretty active, asking questions.
Solymr, MOWE: Town cuz voted scum.
Tiruin: Not quite sure, I don't want to think she's scum, but that may also be biased due to her RL issues.
mastah: Seems to have mostly the same playstyle as BM, but hasn't found a slip yet :P
NQT: His play seems to add up mostly, but I feel like he has contradicted himself several times, in my gut. Leaning scum.
DarkPaladin: Newb, town or 3rd party, not scum.
Caz: Real life issues? Wierd play, makes this a null-read, hopefully things will even out to give me a read. But leaning scum due to null-read
DS:2 posts...
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 09:16:17 pm
4mask: Seems [1]mostly town, doesn't seem to have any problems. Pretty active, asking questions.[1] [joke]Is "mostly town" the same as "oblivious vigilante"?[/joke]
Solymr, MOWE: Town cuz voted scum.
Tiruin: [2]Not quite sure, I don't want to think she's scum, but that may also be biased due to her RL issues.
mastah: Seems to have mostly the same playstyle as BM, but hasn't found a slip yet :P
NQT: His play seems to add up mostly, but I feel like he has contradicted himself several times, in my gut. Leaning scum.
DarkPaladin: Newb, town or 3rd party, [3]not scum.
Caz: Real life issues? Wierd play, makes this a null-read, hopefully things will even out to give me a read. But leaning scum due to null-read
DS: [4]2 posts...
[2] I don't really think that we have enough info to make a judgement there. Do you believe that Tiruin's case against NQT is valid?
[3] Could you expand on this a little more?
[4] Yes. Deathsword, get in here. I'd FoS you to get your attention, but I'm already voting for you.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 09:21:49 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on March 02, 2014, 09:25:05 pm
Not saying he's not here, saying not enough information.
You vo-vo-voted me?
[3] The way he plays, seems to be a complete noob, and he would've freaked out a lot more with people voting him if he was scum, and not just of dissappeaered. His reactions makes me see a noob, and not a scum.
[2] I believe that Tiruin didn't make a case on NQT other than that NQT should stop voting 'lurkers'. Which I agree with. But there was no case. The case came later. By... uh... Solymr or MOWE? I can't remember.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 09:26:35 pm
[4] I've seen two posts of DS after reading the last 5 pages, in which he was replaced in.No, I voted Deathsword. I was talking to deathsword. Not you. Don't worry. You haven't done anything to focus me on you yet.
Not saying he's not here, saying not enough information.
You vo-vo-voted me?
[3] The way he plays, seems to be a complete noob, and he would've freaked out a lot more with people voting him if he was scum, and not just of dissappeaered. His reactions makes me see a noob, and not a scum.
[2] I believe that Tiruin didn't make a case on NQT other than that NQT should stop voting 'lurkers'. Which I agree with. But there was no case. The case came later. By... uh... Solymr or MOWE? I can't remember.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 02, 2014, 09:35:26 pm
4maskwolf: me
IG: dead
MastahCheese: Neutral read, I can't find anything wrong with what he is doing, but something about the way he acts... I can't quite place a finger on it, but it makes me uncertain
TDS: dead
NQT: slight scum, just got placed on the naughty list for contradicting himself. A brute force attack didn't make him crack, but he slipped up anyway.
Caz: I'm not sure. Can't get a good read on her.
SBC: Slight town, due to interactions. Has yet to set off any alarm bells.
DP: dunno. SBC makes a good point, and he is acting the same way in BM.
Solymr: Moderate town due to lynch of IG
Tiruin: null read, excused low post content, seems to like large posts
MOWE: Town due to lynch of IG
Deathsword: Get in here. I need more information, and you failed to address my accusations against you.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2014, 03:13:28 am
Congratulations, NQT, you are back on the suspicion list. What you said there was was EXACTLY the opposite of what you said at day start, indicating that you are making this up as you go.Like SBC, earlier in the game I was under the misapprehension that there were only two scum in the game (as that was the ratio before the 12th player joined). Also, we shouldn't require one another to hold on dogmatically to positions we really should have abandoned. As my understanding had changed, so my belief about what was most likely to have happened. Right now we don't have enough information to say with any great certainty why Dark Star is dead and as such our speculations will be just that: speculation.
I'll tabulate your latest reads along with SBC's. Now just waiting on Deathsword, Tiriun and perhaps most importantly Dark Paladin, who seems to have dropped off the face of the Earth.
Persus~ has Dark Pal been gone long enough to warrant a prod (or does it just feel like a long time to me)?
Caz
Not sure. How can the vote be retaliatory?Your sole reason for voting for me was because I voted for you. It was just a retaliation.
I thought Ugly was nk immune?I meant 'one of the Confederates' would be dead. The kill bounces back and kills the Confederate. It happens only once though.
Darkpaladin even wins out ahead of me of being the most useless player here. Would like at least one defensive post from him though. I still think he's 3rd party over scum.Uh huh, and who is the most likely player to be scum in Caz's books?
MOWE
I saw that Cheese responded to your case. Do you buy his response?
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2014, 07:17:58 am
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Tiruin, Caz
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- notquitethere, Solymr, mastahcheese
Solymr-
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
Deathsword- 4maskwolf
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, MOWE
4 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 2 has been extended to Tuesday March 4th, and will end at 11:00 PM EST
There are no more extensions available today.
I'll send a prod to DarkPaladin.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2014, 08:50:39 am
Darkpaladin109- notquitethere, Solymr, mastahcheese
Kill the lurker, so pro.
Post by: notquitethere on March 03, 2014, 09:02:08 am
Post by: Teneb on March 03, 2014, 10:21:55 am
4maskwolf- DeathswordI'm not voting 4maskwolf. He's voting me.
4maskwolf, since you asked, I'll adress everything there is to in this quote:
DeathswordAlready handled.
You have yet to come through on the promised reads, which is slightly suspicious (though more likely just real life getting in the way).
However, if it was the scum team who was inactive last night, there are three possibilities: MOWE, you, and SBC. MOWE is clear for lynching IG, so if that is the case we have our scumteam in a bag.Or, either the scum or the bad chose not to kill. Scum is more likely, since there is no reason for the bad to choose not to kill. Remember that if the scum hit the ugly, the kill backfires. That could be sufficient reason not to kill. As an added note: D1 buses happen. Never write off someone as town because they lynched scum. IG was playing pretty bad (unfortunately, he always seems to play like that), anyone would've bussed him at that point.
If it was the bad who was inactive, then you, SBC, or MOWE is the bad. None of you are off the hook for it, but the chance of lynching the serial killer is decent. This would point to a scumteam of new players, who wouldn't realize that TDS wasn't a big threat yet. My guess is DP and a lurker, so a one thirds chance of lynching the SK plus a one thirds chance of lynching scum makes a two thirds chance that, under these conditions, your lynching would be beneficial to the town.
Alright, reads. I'll repeat the ones included previously.
4maskwolf: leaning town, solid play.
Caz: third party, very passive.
Solymr: Scummy, voting someone for vague reasons without providing anything to back it up. Newbieness is murking it up a bit, but still scummy.
SBC, MOWE, mastahcheese, DP, Tiruin: Null.
NQT: Unsure, but I can't find anything truly scummy on him.
Alrighty then, I'll vote for darkpaladin because I'm pretty much sure he isn't town, and because I have my doubts about why would Caz act like that.So I already adressed this in my earlier post, but something stuck out to me right now. You mention Caz and her behaviour. How does that relate to darkpaladin being town or not? As I said before, you provide no reasons for DP not being town. You just switch to him because he is an easier target than Caz?
You then provide this "case" on him:
DP:So, lurking basically? And what is this suspicious acting? Why not show it to us? Should we use our collective psychic powers to find out?
Acting most suspicious from long time and still not posting much.
You are acting like newscum being advised by someone more experienced.
Post by: Persus13 on March 03, 2014, 11:58:54 am
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2014, 01:11:11 pm
Solymr and DarkPaladin109 have both requested replacements.
psshhaw. people should follow through to the bitter end.
Post by: Solymr on March 03, 2014, 01:27:42 pm
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2014, 01:56:01 pm
RL > mafia
what is rl?
Post by: Silthuri on March 03, 2014, 02:07:31 pm
MOWE: mastahcheese played like this last game. Whenever he does attack someone, it turns into a tunnel like attack. He caught a very minor thing of Makeinu's, and tunneled him to death. He did not focus on multiple people last game, so I'm wondering why you ask this?My suspicion lies in the fact that he's tunneling on a newbie and that his attacks seem scrambled. I know he was aggressive last time, but this seems different and more suspicious to me.
Although, upon rereading through some stuff, I'll Unvote. Mastahcheese continues to go after Solymr, even though that's my main issue with him. I think mastahcheese is actually convinced Solymr is scum. I personally don't see it, but maybe I'm wrong.
So yes, NQT. I believe mastahcheese's response.
Post by: darkpaladin109 on March 03, 2014, 05:00:18 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 05:26:08 pm
Post by: Silthuri on March 03, 2014, 05:31:46 pm
I only requested a replacement since I don't think I'm doing an adequate job with my current role.Uh... are you aware of what you seem to be implying here?
Post by: Superblackcat on March 03, 2014, 06:27:56 pm
mastahcheese: Why are you voting Darkpaladin other than he is nooby?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 06:40:27 pm
I'm not entirely sure what happened with the vote count, but it is wacky in all kinds of ways.
NQT: be that as it may, it was an inconsistency that I picked up on. We'll see if it has any relevance.
DarkPaladin109 That post of yours seals it. Whoever takes your place will have a lot of explaining to do. I'll ask a question when a replacement shows up.
Cheesemaster: What about DP is the most suspicious to you?
Post by: Teneb on March 03, 2014, 07:44:42 pm
Deathsword: Have you seen that it is almost nigh impossible for Solymr and MOWE to be scum? Due to yesterdays vote standings?You did read what I said that D1 buses are a thing, and that IG played badly enough to justify it?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 07:48:05 pm
But there was a one vote margin, and at times a zero vote margin. Why would they have bussed him that day over an innocent townie?Deathsword: Have you seen that it is almost nigh impossible for Solymr and MOWE to be scum? Due to yesterdays vote standings?You did read what I said that D1 buses are a thing, and that IG played badly enough to justify it?
Post by: mastahcheese on March 03, 2014, 07:50:46 pm
mastahcheese: Why are you voting Darkpaladin other than he is nooby?
Cheesemaster: What about DP is the most suspicious to you?
The reason I voted him is because he's clearly not town, at least not first-party town, it was fairly obvious even before that little tidbit he just said. I could also point to NQT asking me why I wasn't voting, but meh, I should be voting anyways, I just don't feel comfortable with voting any particular person right now. Quite a few people seem scummy to me, I really want to vote for Solymr, I still distrust the hell out of him, but... something isn't adding up there, and it makes me not quite sure about who exactly he is.
I also distrust Caz, for what should be obvious as hell reasons, but again, I'm not entirely comfortable with that, either.
Unvote, in any case, at least until his replacement comes in. Although I may be smacking that vote right back there depending on what the replacement says.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 03, 2014, 08:00:07 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 03, 2014, 08:20:12 pm
First, it removes an incompetent team-mate that could've doomed them later down the line. It makes them look more town, which is always useful. It creates WIFOM, which can be quite useful to scum. If, on top of that, the scum feel they don't have a good enough lynch case on a townie, then bussing is the best option.But there was a one vote margin, and at times a zero vote margin. Why would they have bussed him that day over an innocent townie?Deathsword: Have you seen that it is almost nigh impossible for Solymr and MOWE to be scum? Due to yesterdays vote standings?You did read what I said that D1 buses are a thing, and that IG played badly enough to justify it?
Keep in mind that I am not saying that both of them are scum. I am explaining why scum would do it.
Post by: Caz on March 03, 2014, 08:44:48 pm
I only requested a replacement since I don't think I'm doing an adequate job with my current role.Uh... are you aware of what you seem to be implying here?
If he's cop we're all screwed lol
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 09:35:28 pm
Unvote DeathswordSeals what?
[...]
DarkPaladin109 That post of yours seals it. Whoever takes your place will have a lot of explaining to do. I'll ask a question when a replacement shows up.
[...]
What does it seal and how does it?
What.
Eh? It could be taken any which way (other than the superficial implication) like, vanilla. I'm doing bad at my current role in being vanilla.I only requested a replacement since I don't think I'm doing an adequate job with my current role.Uh... are you aware of what you seem to be implying here?
If he's cop we're all screwed lol
...
Unless y'all see something like a cue in that statement that I don't. Please enlighten.
NQT
Caz , if you'd actually respond to people and put forward an alternative case, people might be inclined to take your perspective more seriously. Who should we lynch instead?This seems more like a general poke at Caz. Anyway, what do you see in Caz? How do you treat her posts?
Because I quite see what Caz is coming from and I take her perspective very seriously.
Deathsword
4maskwolf: leaning town, solid play.What exacts of Solymr or anything of him differentiate him from being town-flaily or anything else but scummy-scum-scum?
Caz: third party, very passive.
Solymr: Scummy, voting someone for vague reasons without providing anything to back it up. Newbieness is murking it up a bit, but still scummy.
SBC, MOWE, mastahcheese, DP, Tiruin: Null.
NQT: Unsure, but I can't find anything truly scummy on him.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 09:43:04 pm
I'm seeing Dark as Bad. And he's really scared cuz the name says 'Bad'Expound on your thought process.
SBC
[2] I believe that Tiruin didn't make a case on NQT other than that NQT should stop voting 'lurkers'. Which I agree with. But there was no case. The case came later. By... uh... Solymr or MOWE? I can't remember.So...you don't see that I was against his use of terminology and how negative the outcome is?
Caz
And other than side-commentary, what do you do about it?I only requested a replacement since I don't think I'm doing an adequate job with my current role.Uh... are you aware of what you seem to be implying here?
If he's cop we're all screwed lol
MOWE
SBC:MOWE: mastahcheese played like this last game. Whenever he does attack someone, it turns into a tunnel like attack. He caught a very minor thing of Makeinu's, and tunneled him to death. He did not focus on multiple people last game, so I'm wondering why you ask this?My suspicion lies in the fact that he's tunneling on a newbie and that his attacks seem scrambled. I know he was aggressive last time, but this seems different and more suspicious to me.
Although, upon rereading through some stuff, I'll Unvote. Mastahcheese continues to go after Solymr, even though that's my main issue with him. I think mastahcheese is actually convinced Solymr is scum. I personally don't see it, but maybe I'm wrong.
So yes, NQT. I believe mastahcheese's response.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 09:44:11 pm
4maskHe has been making scummy remarks all game, which I've been willing to ignore, for the most part, because he is so new. But then he comes out and strongly implies that he has a non vanilla-town role, which, combined with his general avoidance of attention, is highly suspicious, at least in my book.Unvote DeathswordSeals what?
[...]
DarkPaladin109 That post of yours seals it. Whoever takes your place will have a lot of explaining to do. I'll ask a question when a replacement shows up.
[...]
What does it seal and how does it?
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 09:46:50 pm
How?
Scummy, how? What remarks single him out?
How is his 'implication' equal him as a non vanilla-town role, exactly? I don't see that (nor did first impression poke me towards it).
Though as for the avoidance...was it really avoidance? Because that equals lurking. Active lurking.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 10:03:05 pm
I throw question to the winds, 4mask:I'll get to this in a bit, celebrating the birthdays of my brothers.
How?
Scummy, how? What remarks single him out?
How is his 'implication' equal him as a non vanilla-town role, exactly? I don't see that (nor did first impression poke me towards it).
Though as for the avoidance...was it really avoidance? Because that equals lurking. Active lurking.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 03, 2014, 10:06:02 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 10:07:16 pm
Tiruin: Darkpaladin has played a game of a noob being scared. That comes from being scum and not knowing what to do, or as I think in this case. He is bad, frankly, if he is bad, I think he would be a great help to the town. (Vig anyone?) but Bad sounds bad doesn't it? So that's where he gets his pressure from...? So you associate his play under the assumption that he is the 'Bad'?
Err, I can't follow how you got to that conclusion. Reword please?
Post by: Superblackcat on March 03, 2014, 10:12:34 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 10:20:16 pm
His current play seems to point at he has some sort of role. AKA not vanilla. His suspicion seems show a role that seems 'bad'. He doesn't seem like scum, because if he was, he'd have scum buddies helping him, and he wouldn't be showing so much scummy play. My conclusion is that he's a third party, Bad, because first of all. Bad sounds bad, thus the pressure, he's alone, thus not sure what to do.Sans the speculation, that could speak about any such thing in Dark's attitude and not necessarily a role. Though yeah, upon re-reading it for a couple of times + tea, I could see that it could also pertain to him being able to do an ability...though it doesn't feel like that given the wording. His 'adequate job with my current role' speaks more along a generalism on how he values his own role.
Though I really can't get what you mean here. His play is...bad. Therefore, "Bad" because of the similarity in the word?
Also why would scum buddies help him in that context? The
Quote
and he wouldn't be showing so much scummy play.does help push an either third-party/Town note, I agree. But how would they help there?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 10:22:26 pm
My view on this, Tiruin, is fairly similar to that of SBC. He has said precious little throughout the game except things about being scared and trying to avoid attention. I don't think it is impossible that he is scum, but if he is, then it is likely that his scumbuddy is a lurker.His current play seems to point at he has some sort of role. AKA not vanilla. His suspicion seems show a role that seems 'bad'. He doesn't seem like scum, because if he was, he'd have scum buddies helping him, and he wouldn't be showing so much scummy play. My conclusion is that he's a third party, Bad, because first of all. Bad sounds bad, thus the pressure, he's alone, thus not sure what to do.Sans the speculation, that could speak about any such thing in Dark's attitude and not necessarily a role. Though yeah, upon re-reading it for a couple of times + tea, I could see that it could also pertain to him being able to do an ability...though it doesn't feel like that given the wording. His 'adequate job with my current role' speaks more along a generalism on how he values his own role.
Though I really can't get what you mean here. His play is...bad. Therefore, "Bad" because of the similarity in the word?
Also why would scum buddies help him in that context? TheQuoteand he wouldn't be showing so much scummy play.does help push an either third-party/Town note, I agree. But how would they help there?
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 10:39:11 pm
Though he did state that he hasn't played an actual game yet and that this is his first game.[2]
Now let's check his pertinent posts sans faux-raeg at editing: 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5028099#msg5028099), 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5028922#msg5028922), 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5033141#msg5033141), 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5042072#msg5042072), 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5042202#msg5042202), 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5044340#msg5044340), 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5055895#msg5055895).
Now: darkpaladin109
At #1 in that list: Why do you expect such a game to be 'chaotic'? What did you exactly mean by remaining 'cautious and hidden'? Because by recent judgement--that also pertains to active lurking and not posting. Not giving content or as much content that it would be trivial.
#3 = safety. However do note that Townies in any situation should discard that safety blanket and rely on their comrades-in-arms: you do not need to live to win, and if you live you need to act on the moral right of the Townie: Communication. If I am right in my judgement, this means that your play as 'cautious and hidden' SHOULD equal a cautious approach in this game, rather than active lurking, yes?
#4 points to the great time of Forum Database Down. The FDD happened to everyone, and is not an excuse for lacking content.
Do note: You will be eaten alive if you continue this way. Mafia is about communication, in all their forms. Forum, IRC or Reality.
#6: I'd like to advance this note: What made you guess that said person 'could have been town' compared to quite anything else? Of that note (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5046290#msg5046290), you haven't addressed quite well anyone thus far-and, it would be said, that this is conducive as a detriment to any kind of role you hold.
Regarding replacements: As long as none have been announced by the moderator, you are still playing and it is imperative that you answer those questioned positioned towards you.
4mask
Really? How?My view on this, Tiruin, is fairly similar to that of SBC. He has said precious little throughout the game except things about being scared and trying to avoid attention. I don't think it is impossible that he is scum, but if he is, then it is likely that his scumbuddy is a lurker.His current play seems to point at he has some sort of role. AKA not vanilla. His suspicion seems show a role that seems 'bad'. He doesn't seem like scum, because if he was, he'd have scum buddies helping him, and he wouldn't be showing so much scummy play. My conclusion is that he's a third party, Bad, because first of all. Bad sounds bad, thus the pressure, he's alone, thus not sure what to do.Sans the speculation, that could speak about any such thing in Dark's attitude and not necessarily a role. Though yeah, upon re-reading it for a couple of times + tea, I could see that it could also pertain to him being able to do an ability...though it doesn't feel like that given the wording. His 'adequate job with my current role' speaks more along a generalism on how he values his own role.
Though I really can't get what you mean here. His play is...bad. Therefore, "Bad" because of the similarity in the word?
Also why would scum buddies help him in that context? TheQuoteand he wouldn't be showing so much scummy play.does help push an either third-party/Town note, I agree. But how would they help there?
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 10:40:59 pm
Post by: Silthuri on March 03, 2014, 10:45:04 pm
Which is precisely why I'm not voting him. I'm not entirely sure this is a claim. And if it is, he might actually be Union. If we are all screwed if he's a cop, why aren't you taking this a bit more seriously?I only requested a replacement since I don't think I'm doing an adequate job with my current role.Uh... are you aware of what you seem to be implying here?
If he's cop we're all screwed lol
Tiruin:
What.He said "role." He's implying that he's not doing very well in his "role." I was asking if he knew how people could take it since "role" can be taken to mean he's a cop or the like. Personally, I'm not sure whether or not he's throwing out a hint that he actually has a role aside from being town or if he's just saying he doesn't think he's doing very well in general. I'm just pointing it out because that's not something he wants to blurt out because people might assume he's claiming, like people are doing now.Eh? It could be taken any which way (other than the superficial implication) like, vanilla. I'm doing bad at my current role in being vanilla.I only requested a replacement since I don't think I'm doing an adequate job with my current role.Uh... are you aware of what you seem to be implying here?
If he's cop we're all screwed lol
...
Unless y'all see something like a cue in that statement that I don't. Please enlighten.
Also, you quoted me once without asking/saying anything. Are you just trying to get me to rethink things or something?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 10:49:01 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 10:50:21 pm
Also, you quoted me once without asking/saying anything. Are you just trying to get me to rethink things or something?Oops! :X Nope! It was a formatting error. My stuffs with multiple tabs and such--no, I find nothing worth questioning there.
I believe that his scumpartner is missing if he is scum because any scumpartner would have been more experienced than he was, barring Solymr, and would not have gone with the kill of TDS in all likelyhood. I have evidence, should I need to bring it out, that Paladin was not only online, he was on the mafia subforum during night one. Any scumpartner probably would have advised against that nk and tried to get him to play more, neither of which happened....Why? @bolded part
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 10:57:15 pm
Part one: all of us, except Solymr, have at least one game under our belts.Also, you quoted me once without asking/saying anything. Are you just trying to get me to rethink things or something?Oops! :X Nope! It was a formatting error. My stuffs with multiple tabs and such--no, I find nothing worth questioning there.I believe that his scumpartner is missing if he is scum because any scumpartner would have been more experienced than he was, barring Solymr, and would not have gone with the kill of TDS in all likelyhood. I have evidence, should I need to bring it out, that Paladin was not only online, he was on the mafia subforum during night one. Any scumpartner probably would have advised against that nk and tried to get him to play more, neither of which happened....Why? @bolded part
Part two: we have extensively exhausted in discussion the reason why the TDS kill was a subpar kill if performed by mafia. We being NQT and a few others. Unless you are suggesting that the scum is trying to WIFOM us. Is that what you mean?
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 11:08:13 pm
though I question the entire notion: How is it that you are able to specify which faction did what when all we have to work with is one kill out of the worst-case 3?
Though, if I was influenced by seeing that as DP's note, it does make sense on how he...panicked regarding his editing stuff. Subconscious bias due to what role he perceives as bad, maybe?
Speculation aside:
[...]extensively exhausted in discussion the reason why the TDS kill was a subpar kill if performed by mafia.[...]does not appear to be a standing fact.
My standings are the same with MOWE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5043286#msg5043286) here when I speculate its an either/or Bad/Scum kill.
What makes you so sure about the judgement of that kill, again? I may have missed it. Link me.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 11:13:17 pm
Checking back, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5038803#msg5038803) said discussion on why its a subpar kill...isn't that visible here. Since you say NQT and the rest, I don't see (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5042461#msg5042461) quite where any such declaration of statements (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5042856#msg5042856) exist with the person named here. NQT did name a note (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5042461#msg5042461) (search: "My analysis is thus")Urgh... I hate looking for things in old posts.
though I question the entire notion: How is it that you are able to specify which faction did what when all we have to work with is one kill out of the worst-case 3?
Though, if I was influenced by seeing that as DP's note, it does make sense on how he...panicked regarding his editing stuff. Subconscious bias due to what role he perceives as bad, maybe?
Speculation aside:[...]extensively exhausted in discussion the reason why the TDS kill was a subpar kill if performed by mafia.[...]does not appear to be a standing fact.
My standings are the same with MOWE (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5043286#msg5043286) here when I speculate its an either/or Bad/Scum kill.
What makes you so sure about the judgement of that kill, again? I may have missed it. Link me.
I was merely presenting it as one possible option, if you read the post I made that triggered this cascade. I have no idea who made the kill, as I have posted in the past. The entire point of the post was to add possibilities to the list of possibilities. I'll give you links if I remember to in the morning, but right now I'm too damn tired to type.
I didn't expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition! :D
Bonus points if anyone gets the reference.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 11:15:19 pm
MOWE: The source [pertaining to why I call you Mehve] was my studies in languages. Take a note! ^ ^ (http://www.nausicaa.net/miyazaki/nausicaa/faq.html#mehve)
Also Nausicaa. <3
In regard to my post above, I read everything beforehand and I can't see any 'extensive discussion' which concludes one matter over another in regard to the kill. 4mask I now recall that you missed that point in question (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=136304.msg5043376#msg5043376) back there.
PPE: Blah.
MONTY PYTHON. D:<
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 03, 2014, 11:16:03 pm
Hoping a replacement comes for DarkPaladin.
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 11:17:12 pm
I'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.I was under the impression that the bad did not town side when he died.
Hoping a replacement comes for DarkPaladin.
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean.
If that is the case, Unvote DP109. A vigilante is too useful to give up at this stage.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 11:17:58 pm
I'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.Wat.
And if he indeed isn't? How could you be so sure on that note? (Also...HELPFUL to town as a Vigilante? Expound, sir)
Quote
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean....? Where guilty?
...I'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.I was under the impression that the bad did not town side when he died.
Hoping a replacement comes for DarkPaladin.
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean.
If that is the case, Unvote DP109. A vigilante is too useful to give up at this stage.
...
So you guys believe he's a vigilante over anything else (hint: SCUM) because...why now?
Post by: Superblackcat on March 03, 2014, 11:20:20 pm
I've never thought DP was scum. He seemed just like a noob. But now his play is really scummy, but not scum. (To quote IMP). He seems to be afraid. Also, if he had an Mafia partner, then he would be able to play a lot better. That's why I believe DP isn't mafia.
Seems like Bad right now. That's my conclusion.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 11:24:34 pm
I really can't sense emotion in his brevity. At all. Other than relate what scant posts he has with previous knowledge and reflect on that.
Quote
Also, if he had an Mafia partner, then he would be able to play a lot better. That's why I believe DP isn't mafia....There are also mafia players who play bad despite their good partners.
Meaning: I doubt that DP can be cleared that easily--he posts so little, and the excuse (yeah, excuse) of unvoting him on these grounds have lacking backing on how to judge him by.
Besides, we're facing 3 Mafia, and 3 inconclusive third-parties. How the fish does this conclude he's the Bad over quitewellmuchanything in being scum? :I
Newbie tell? Newbiescummyflaily tell?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 11:25:24 pm
there are a multitude of things he could be. Assuming we correctly interpret his last post, he has a power role of some kindI'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.Wat.
And if he indeed isn't? How could you be so sure on that note? (Also...HELPFUL to town as a Vigilante? Expound, sir)QuoteAlso Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean....? Where guilty?...I'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.I was under the impression that the bad did not town side when he died.
Hoping a replacement comes for DarkPaladin.
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean.
If that is the case, Unvote DP109. A vigilante is too useful to give up at this stage.
...
So you guys believe he's a vigilante over anything else (hint: SCUM) because...why now?
Now, let's go through the options:
Town cop: don't want to lynch that
Good: effectively one shot vig town
Bad: vigilante type, which unfortunately wants to kill town aligns
Ugly: EXTREMELY useful to the town, due to nk reversal and one-shot lynch immunity
Scum general: kill on sight
Scum: Kill on sight
Now before I answer:
Tiruin: what do you think DP109 is?
PPE: two scum, Tiruin. IG is dead as a doormouse that's been poisoned.
Post by: Tiruin on March 03, 2014, 11:32:39 pm
PPE: two scum, Tiruin. IG is dead as a doormouse that's been poisoned....Yeah. That. >.>
Ok I get Wolf's scale of interpretation but what I don't get is how we've jumped from interpreting DP's vagueness into 'Oh hey he's the Vig-dude!'there are a multitude of things he could be. Assuming we correctly interpret his last post, he has a power role of some kindI'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.Wat.
And if he indeed isn't? How could you be so sure on that note? (Also...HELPFUL to town as a Vigilante? Expound, sir)QuoteAlso Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean....? Where guilty?...I'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.I was under the impression that the bad did not town side when he died.
Hoping a replacement comes for DarkPaladin.
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean.
If that is the case, Unvote DP109. A vigilante is too useful to give up at this stage.
...
So you guys believe he's a vigilante over anything else (hint: SCUM) because...why now?
Now, let's go through the options:
Town cop: don't want to lynch that
Good: effectively one shot vig town
Bad: vigilante type, which unfortunately wants to kill town aligns
Ugly: EXTREMELY useful to the town, due to nk reversal and one-shot lynch immunity
Scum general: kill on sight
Scum: Kill on sight
...Though it doesn't relate to why, out of 3 possible people, we see one kill. That means either 2 people didn't act-or 1 person didn't act.
Tiruin: what do you think DP109 is?Lazy.
That, and I didn't see his most recent answers to what I've poked at him so I guess that also affects my perception onto him, however I do also have to say that he is lacking in all fields of logic that I am very well justified in saying that brevity is bad.
But what I really think about him? Yeah, brevity. Not due for my vote as I'm checking back on people (+ queries to them) BUT I'm not against his lynch either, just curious on those who did vote him. Spontaneously. Quickly.
Quote
Bad: vigilante type, which unfortunately wants to kill town aligns...? He's a survivor-type-Vigilante OR who wins by getting the Good & Ugly dead.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 03, 2014, 11:38:33 pm
Here's a little tidbit, Tiruin: everything I do is spontaneous. I've toned it down a bit from the BM, where I roleclaimed on a flight of frustration, but it's still there.PPE: two scum, Tiruin. IG is dead as a doormouse that's been poisoned....Yeah. That. >.>Ok I get Wolf's scale of interpretation but what I don't get is how we've jumped from interpreting DP's vagueness into 'Oh hey he's the Vig-dude!'there are a multitude of things he could be. Assuming we correctly interpret his last post, he has a power role of some kindI'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.Wat.
And if he indeed isn't? How could you be so sure on that note? (Also...HELPFUL to town as a Vigilante? Expound, sir)QuoteAlso Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean....? Where guilty?...I'm against voting DarkPaladin. If he is indeed Bad, he would be very helpful to town as a Vigilante.I was under the impression that the bad did not town side when he died.
Hoping a replacement comes for DarkPaladin.
Also Tiruin, He playes like he is guilty, and the most guilty seeming thing other than scum is bad. That's what I mean.
If that is the case, Unvote DP109. A vigilante is too useful to give up at this stage.
...
So you guys believe he's a vigilante over anything else (hint: SCUM) because...why now?
Now, let's go through the options:
Town cop: don't want to lynch that
Good: effectively one shot vig town
Bad: vigilante type, which unfortunately wants to kill town aligns
Ugly: EXTREMELY useful to the town, due to nk reversal and one-shot lynch immunity
Scum general: kill on sight
Scum: Kill on sight
...Though it doesn't relate to why, out of 3 possible people, we see one kill. That means either 2 people didn't act-or 1 person didn't act.Tiruin: what do you think DP109 is?Lazy.
That, and I didn't see his most recent answers to what I've poked at him so I guess that also affects my perception onto him, however I do also have to say that he is lacking in all fields of logic that I am very well justified in saying that brevity is bad.
But what I really think about him? Yeah, brevity. Not due for my vote as I'm checking back on people (+ queries to them) BUT I'm not against his lynch either, just curious on those who did vote him. Spontaneously. Quickly.QuoteBad: vigilante type, which unfortunately wants to kill town aligns...? He's a survivor-type-Vigilante OR who wins by getting the Good & Ugly dead.
And yes, the bad is both a vig and somewhat anti-town.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 03, 2014, 11:59:43 pm
And the fact that the Good would want to shoot their face.
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2014, 03:18:00 pm
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Caz
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- notquitethere, Solymr,
Solymr- Deathsword
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
Deathsword-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, MOWE, 4maskwolf, Tiruin, mastahcheese
4 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 2 has been extended to Tuesday March 4th, and will end at 11:00 PM EST (8 hours from now)
There are no more extensions available today.
DarkPaladin109 and Solymr are still up for replacement.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 04, 2014, 03:51:58 pm
4maskwolf- It doesn't say you aren't voting, but it doesn't show your vote. Who are you voting, again? And why? If you aren't voting, why not?
notquitethere- How comfortable are you with your vote on DP? Why?
Caz- Why do you think we should lynch NQT?
Superblackcat- Do you plan on voting? If no, why not? If so, on who?
Darkpaladin109- Not really sure what to ask since I doubt they will reply before the lynch.
Solymr- Also not sure if will reply before lynch, either.
Tiruin- It doesn't say you aren't voting, either, but it doesn't show your vote. Who are you voting, again? And why? If you aren't voting, why not?
MyOwnWorstEnemy- Do you plan on voting, either? If no, why not? If so, on who?
Deathsword- How comfortable are you with your vote on Solymr? Why do you think we should lynch them?
As for myself, I am currently not voting, and would like wait just a little longer to hear some replies. I'd like to vote Solymr, because I'm still not convinced he's innocent, but that would cause a tie, and if we don't lynch, then we won't get enough information. Mislynch > No Lynch, in this situation.
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2014, 04:08:00 pm
4maskwolf- It doesn't say you aren't voting, but it doesn't show your vote.Fixed.
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2014, 05:09:51 pm
4maskwolf-
Mastahcheese-
notquitethere- Caz
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- notquitethere
Solymr- Deathsword
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
Deathsword-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, MOWE, 4maskwolf, Tiruin, mastahcheese
4 votes to Extend
0 votes to Shorten
Day 2 has been extended to Tuesday March 4th, and will end at 11:00 PM EST (6 hours from now)
There are no more extensions available today.
DarkPaladin109 and Solymr are still up for replacement.
Post by: Silthuri on March 04, 2014, 06:43:43 pm
Just so everyone knows, I won't be around much the next couple days. I have three exams at the end of this week and enough homework to make me question my sanity. I'll do what I can in here, but don't expect much.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 04, 2014, 08:00:53 pm
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it. I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.
If you are the general or a townie, or the Good or Ugly, then I'm sorry. But I can't wait for anymore replies, and I hope to god that if there are people who think that risk is worth it, they get on right now and voice it.
I hope that if you do get lynched by the day's end, that we're right in this. I really don't like this.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2014, 08:16:18 pm
I'm going to vote MastahCheese on the following grounds:
I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.This is little more than a bandwagon vote. If you have to apologize to someone who ISN'T EVEN PRESENT, then there are problems. You fail to site any strong case against him.
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it.If you aren't comfortable voting, then DON'T VOTE. Voting without reason on day two is a MAJOR tell, cheesemeister.
Also, to use the argument of someone else (I don't remember who), you went after Solymr with the charge of bussing before IG flipped, which hints at hidden knowledge on day one. In an open setup, the only way that could happen is if you were scum. That there is not enough to vote you, however, it also happened conveniently close to the end of the day when the only chance of IG not dying was to put someone else's head on the chopping block.
The plaintiff rests.
Post by: Tiruin on March 04, 2014, 08:49:50 pm
Mr. Cheese
God dang it, there's only 3 hours left, and I have to go somewhere so I won't be here to see the day's end, or be here for anyone else's replies.Y'know, I doubt that he'd be saying he'd be doing a poor job if he is the general, so exclude that--however I do wonder why you bring the topic up. Matter of conscience?
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it. I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.
If you are the general or a townie, or the Good or Ugly, then I'm sorry. But I can't wait for anymore replies, and I hope to god that if there are people who think that risk is worth it, they get on right now and voice it.
I hope that if you do get lynched by the day's end, that we're right in this. I really don't like this.
Because the only note you've got to vote him is that vague point there. Given your disposition-he's the most likely to be voted in your opinion, yes? Why?
MOWE
I'm extremely busy and have just glanced over things. Judging by what I previously know, I have to vote darkpaladin because I feel he's made quite a few mistakes. He just hasn't been around and everything he has said points to him being something more than just a townie. I just hope he's not the Union General or the Ugly. I'm actually kinda thinking he's the Bad because there seemed to be no tactic behind TDS's death N1.I share the same reason yet I'm against voting the guy. What scant posts he has comprises what I can only infer as guilt, and even that is bogged down by what I doubt is him strangling his role or whatever metaphor alludes to conscience and guilt.
Just so everyone knows, I won't be around much the next couple days. I have three exams at the end of this week and enough homework to make me question my sanity. I'll do what I can in here, but don't expect much.
*gives hugs btw*
goodluck in exams!
...
Can we share that luck? >.>
PPE
4mask
Hello everyone.Now I'm still going on my note on you as reactionary but...you did note that his reason is stated as a declarative sentence there, yes?
I'm going to vote MastahCheese on the following grounds:I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.This is little more than a bandwagon vote. If you have to apologize to someone who ISN'T EVEN PRESENT, then there are problems. You fail to site any strong case against him.I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it.If you aren't comfortable voting, then DON'T VOTE. Voting without reason on day two is a MAJOR tell, cheesemeister.
Also, to use the argument of someone else (I don't remember who), you went after Solymr with the charge of bussing before IG flipped, which hints at hidden knowledge on day one. In an open setup, the only way that could happen is if you were scum. That there is not enough to vote you, however, it also happened conveniently close to the end of the day when the only chance of IG not dying was to put someone else's head on the chopping block.
The plaintiff rests.
Also...he's been pretty active actually-well, he made his post 3 hours from
Quote
March 04, 2014, 08:41:42 pmhere (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121809.msg5059121#msg5059121)
Though it seems he fails to notice any message sent to him as of prior note...and while under the idea of needing a replacement, I'm quite curious about him-but not enough to vote him.
8 Hours left.I'm voting nobody. NQT hasn't spoken since late. Caz, SBC, Solymyr (yeah get my note on replacements unless RL gets in the way D:), and generall everyone else but 4mask, Cheese, MOWE has spoken. I haven't caught up with DS or the rest...
4maskwolf- It doesn't say you aren't voting, but it doesn't show your vote. Who are you voting, again? And why? If you aren't voting, why not?
notquitethere- How comfortable are you with your vote on DP? Why?
Caz- Why do you think we should lynch NQT?
Superblackcat- Do you plan on voting? If no, why not? If so, on who?
Darkpaladin109- Not really sure what to ask since I doubt they will reply before the lynch.
Solymr- Also not sure if will reply before lynch, either.
Tiruin- It doesn't say you aren't voting, either, but it doesn't show your vote. Who are you voting, again? And why? If you aren't voting, why not?
...
And also schoolwork bogs me down-however right now? I'm not voting because this needs a kick in activity. Will be posting in 3 hours after this after a check on my notes.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2014, 08:53:08 pm
PPE... I don't quite understand who or what you are talking about here. Exhaustion has gotten the better of me...
4maskHello everyone.Now I'm still going on my note on you as reactionary but...you did note that his reason is stated as a declarative sentence there, yes?
I'm going to vote MastahCheese on the following grounds:I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.This is little more than a bandwagon vote. If you have to apologize to someone who ISN'T EVEN PRESENT, then there are problems. You fail to site any strong case against him.I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it.If you aren't comfortable voting, then DON'T VOTE. Voting without reason on day two is a MAJOR tell, cheesemeister.
Also, to use the argument of someone else (I don't remember who), you went after Solymr with the charge of bussing before IG flipped, which hints at hidden knowledge on day one. In an open setup, the only way that could happen is if you were scum. That there is not enough to vote you, however, it also happened conveniently close to the end of the day when the only chance of IG not dying was to put someone else's head on the chopping block.
The plaintiff rests.
Also...he's been pretty active actually-well, he made his post 3 hours fromQuoteMarch 04, 2014, 08:41:42 pmhere (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=121809.msg5059121#msg5059121)
Though it seems he fails to notice any message sent to him as of prior note...and while under the idea of needing a replacement, I'm quite curious about him-but not enough to vote him.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2014, 08:53:48 pm
Post by: Caz on March 04, 2014, 09:11:58 pm
And other than side-commentary, what do you do about it?Yea, you're right, I need to get back into the game. Atm I'm reading better to get reads. Are you planning to vote today? Who are your main FOSes?
Unless you are suggesting that the scum is trying to WIFOM us.Don't count it out. I thought TDS was playing rather well on day 1.
I didn't expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition! :DAre you getting nervous now that questions are being directed towards you? Why is this?
Besides, we're facing 3 Mafia, and 3 inconclusive third-parties.2 mafia.
Caz- Why do you think we should lynch NQT?He's leading a lynch on a lurker. Why have you failed to vote so far today?
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it. I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.Very lazy BS. I was leaning 4wolf being scum over you until this.
Changing my vote. Mastahcheese bc NQT isn't getting lynched today anyway and lynching DP is a waste of time imo. Though at this point we need 4 votes on anyone to not let DP die. W/e.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2014, 09:21:04 pm
It was a very intentional joke, and followed by a statement saying "bonus points to the person who gets the reference". Should I have surrounded it with [OBVIOUSJOKE] [/OBVIOUSJOKE] :P?I didn't expect some kind of Spanish Inquisition! :DAre you getting nervous now that questions are being directed towards you? Why is this?
Post by: mastahcheese on March 04, 2014, 10:00:22 pm
But that's people.
Hello everyone.[1] No, it's not. You yourself even pitched in to say "that seals the deal" on what he said before he disappeared. I figured I wouldn't need to point that out again that this is a pretty major scum-tell, along with the other things he's been doing, because it's been mention about a dozen times now, even by yourself.
I'm going to vote MastahCheese on the following grounds:I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.[1] This is little more than a bandwagon vote. If you have to apologize to someone who ISN'T EVEN PRESENT, then there are problems. You fail to site any strong case against him.I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it.[2] If you aren't comfortable voting, then DON'T VOTE. Voting without reason on day two is a MAJOR tell, cheesemeister.
[3] Also, to use the argument of someone else (I don't remember who), you went after Solymr with the charge of bussing before IG flipped, which hints at hidden knowledge on day one. In an open setup, the only way that could happen is if you were scum. That there is not enough to vote you, however, it also happened conveniently close to the end of the day when the only chance of IG not dying was to put someone else's head on the chopping block.
[4] The plaintiff rests.
[2] Would you like me to rescind my vote, then? I find it incredibly odd that you were completely willing to put him to the chopping block earlier, with hardly more of an argument yourself, and now you've turned around and attacked me. Are you defending him, now?
[3] Fairly certain that was NQT, and if you were paying attention, I've already answered this. I went after him, using the tone that he already know about IG, to see if he would point it out, and he never did. I'll drag up my answer to NQT's same question, if you need me to.
[4] NQT also made the comment on this phrase of yours, as well. Why are you using this?
PFP[bold] Why is this? If you've explained this before, I'm sorry, but I don't get this.
Mr. CheeseGod dang it, there's only 3 hours left, and I have to go somewhere so I won't be here to see the day's end, or be here for anyone else's replies.Y'know, I doubt that he'd be saying he'd be doing a poor job if he is the general, so exclude that--however I do wonder why you bring the topic up. Matter of conscience?
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it. I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.
If you are the general or a townie, or the Good or Ugly, then I'm sorry. But I can't wait for anymore replies, and I hope to god that if there are people who think that risk is worth it, they get on right now and voice it.
I hope that if you do get lynched by the day's end, that we're right in this. I really don't like this.
Because the only note you've got to vote him is that vague point there. Given your disposition-he's the most likely to be voted in your opinion, yes? Why?
Like I've written in my reply to Wolf, the reason I didn't give a ton of reasons is because those reasons were already explained, by multiple people, on multiple occasions, and I was in a rush to leave.
And the reason that it seemed to me that he'd be voted is because, at least in my eyes, he poses the greatest threat, as it's fairly evident that he's not a vanilla townie. And if what you say about him not being likely to be the General is true, then it's even less likely he's on our side.
Changing my vote. Mastahcheese bc NQT isn't getting lynched today anyway and lynching DP is a waste of time imo. Though at this point we need 4 votes on anyone to not let DP die. W/e.So your reason for voting me is that "voting NQT or DP is a waste of time"?
Post by: Superblackcat on March 04, 2014, 10:08:10 pm
I'm hoping that the replacements will make it before night time.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 04, 2014, 10:09:16 pm
There are no more extensions available today.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2014, 10:36:47 pm
So it turns out that the people I was going to see already made plans, and neglected to even bother telling me, so I'm back long before I expected to be.Ah, Cheesemeister, you are back.
But that's people.Hello everyone.[1] No, it's not. You yourself even pitched in to say "that seals the deal" on what he said before he disappeared. I figured I wouldn't need to point that out again that this is a pretty major scum-tell, along with the other things he's been doing, because it's been mention about a dozen times now, even by yourself.
I'm going to vote MastahCheese on the following grounds:I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.[1] This is little more than a bandwagon vote. If you have to apologize to someone who ISN'T EVEN PRESENT, then there are problems. You fail to site any strong case against him.I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it.[2] If you aren't comfortable voting, then DON'T VOTE. Voting without reason on day two is a MAJOR tell, cheesemeister.
[3] Also, to use the argument of someone else (I don't remember who), you went after Solymr with the charge of bussing before IG flipped, which hints at hidden knowledge on day one. In an open setup, the only way that could happen is if you were scum. That there is not enough to vote you, however, it also happened conveniently close to the end of the day when the only chance of IG not dying was to put someone else's head on the chopping block.
[4] The plaintiff rests.
[2] Would you like me to rescind my vote, then? I find it incredibly odd that you were completely willing to put him to the chopping block earlier, with hardly more of an argument yourself, and now you've turned around and attacked me. Are you defending him, now?
[3] Fairly certain that was NQT, and if you were paying attention, I've already answered this. I went after him, using the tone that he already know about IG, to see if he would point it out, and he never did. I'll drag up my answer to NQT's same question, if you need me to.
[4] NQT also made the comment on this phrase of yours, as well. Why are you using this?PFP[bold] Why is this? If you've explained this before, I'm sorry, but I don't get this.
Mr. CheeseGod dang it, there's only 3 hours left, and I have to go somewhere so I won't be here to see the day's end, or be here for anyone else's replies.Y'know, I doubt that he'd be saying he'd be doing a poor job if he is the general, so exclude that--however I do wonder why you bring the topic up. Matter of conscience?
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it. I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.
If you are the general or a townie, or the Good or Ugly, then I'm sorry. But I can't wait for anymore replies, and I hope to god that if there are people who think that risk is worth it, they get on right now and voice it.
I hope that if you do get lynched by the day's end, that we're right in this. I really don't like this.
Because the only note you've got to vote him is that vague point there. Given your disposition-he's the most likely to be voted in your opinion, yes? Why?
Like I've written in my reply to Wolf, the reason I didn't give a ton of reasons is because those reasons were already explained, by multiple people, on multiple occasions, and I was in a rush to leave.
And the reason that it seemed to me that he'd be voted is because, at least in my eyes, he poses the greatest threat, as it's fairly evident that he's not a vanilla townie. And if what you say about him not being likely to be the General is true, then it's even less likely he's on our side.Changing my vote. Mastahcheese bc NQT isn't getting lynched today anyway and lynching DP is a waste of time imo. Though at this point we need 4 votes on anyone to not let DP die. W/e.So your reason for voting me is that "voting NQT or DP is a waste of time"?
2. I am not defending him, I'm putting YOU on the chopping block for a weak case. There is a HUGE difference there.
4. I'm in a lawyery mood, what have you?
Post by: mastahcheese on March 04, 2014, 10:58:31 pm
Ah, Cheesemeister, you are back.[2] I could see this exact same phrase being used in many other cases.
2. I am not defending him, I'm putting YOU on the chopping block for a weak case. There is a HUGE difference there.
4. I'm in a lawyery mood, what have you?
[4] Dickbag "friends" who think other people's time is meaningless. But that's not important. I'll admit that I didn't spend nearly enough time on that post as I should have, and I can't exactly fix that now.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 04, 2014, 11:01:06 pm
[4] I'm sorry...
Post by: Persus13 on March 04, 2014, 11:04:53 pm
Mastahcheese- 4maskwolf, Caz
notquitethere-
Caz-
Superblackcat-
Darkpaladin109- notquitethere, MOWE, Mastahcheese
Solymr- Deathsword
Tiruin-
MyOwnWorstEnemy-
Deathsword-
No Lynch-
Not Voting- SBC, Darkpaladin109, MOWE, 4maskwolf, Tiruin, mastahcheese
DarkPaladin109 and Solymr are still up for replacement.
The second day you handed over Darkpaladin109 for hanging. The officer looks at you all. "This man is a special case. He claimed he is the General who is supposed to be in charge of this encampment, but he doesn't have the papers. We'll send him by armed guard to headquarters to check on his identity. Now, head to your tents and get some sleep."
Darkpaladin109 has been lynched. He was a Union General.
Night has fallen. If you have a Night Action, send it as soon as you can.
Post by: Persus13 on March 05, 2014, 09:52:38 pm
Day 3 has begun and will end Monday March 10 at 11 PM EST
Post by: Tiruin on March 05, 2014, 09:59:59 pm
On it reads: "This is all your fault, and I told you so. Also, take care!"
Somehow she died peacefully.
Also, Union General. AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA great. >_<
Bah humbug. I'm grumpy.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2014, 10:02:26 pm
Alright. Alright. So we've got:
4maskwolf
MastahCheese
NQT
Superblackcat
Deathsword
MOWE
one union soldier, the bad, the good, the ugly, a confederate soldier, and the confederate general...
okay, MastahCheese, you have a day to start talking. You know the charges leveled at you. You were the keystone vote that killed the union general, and you even said that, and I quote:
Quote from: Cheese
I don't feel comfortable with voting, but I'm not wasting it.You killed him because you wanted to stay in NQT's good books, because NQT doesn't like people not voting. Why? Because you are scum, that's why.
And then this:
Quote from: Cheese
I'm sorry, Darkpaladin, but I don't think that the risk of you being a friendly role is worth the risk of you being a hostile one.You didn't even have a case, you just piled on the bandwagon. And killed the general! If you have to apologize for your vote, DON'T DO IT!! IT MEANS THAT YOU ARE UNCERTAIN.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 05, 2014, 10:26:40 pm
NL
We've got a Mylo... the Good has used his kill, and the Bad should not kill...
Everyone should out, IMO.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 05, 2014, 10:28:07 pm
Didn't expect him to be union general... But goddamn it.The bad HAS to kill to win, bud. If the bad does not kill, then he loses. Because either way the game will be over too quickly to kill both the good and the ugly.
NL
We've got a Mylo... the Good has used his kill, and the Bad should not kill...
Everyone should out, IMO.
Post by: Caz on March 05, 2014, 10:29:43 pm
* Caz expires and returns to the ghostly realm.
Post by: Solymr on March 06, 2014, 02:27:17 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 03:55:20 am
Post by: darkpaladin109 on March 06, 2014, 06:13:04 am
I was playing like a noob, but that's exactly what I am. I think I should also point out it's not my fault I got saddled with propably the most important role I could get. Also, Perseus, update the OP.
Post by: Tiruin on March 06, 2014, 07:03:02 am
Darkpaladin109's spirit matrerializes before Mastachcheese, attempting to strangle him, but his ghostly arm just passes through his neck, before the spirit dissapears in a puff os smoke.*grabs shovel*
I was playing like a noob, but that's exactly what I am. I think I should also point out it's not my fault I got saddled with propably the most important role I could get. Also, Perseus, update the OP.
Not your fault that you got "saddled" with it but it is your fault how you handled with it.
Now get back in the deadchat or I'll revive you just to kill you again with my own hands and even that doesn't make sense!
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 08:16:12 am
Wolf
Every metric of mine says you're town. If you're the final town player then if we all lynch you then the Confederates, the Bad, the Good and the Ugly will win. If you're not Union, now's the time to say what you are.
Everyone Else
If you want to win, you best be voting Wolf, unless you know that Wolf definitely isn't the final Unionist. Remember, the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly all win if they survive until the end of the game, and killing the last Union player is the quickest way to end the game. Don't claim yet though: let's see what Wolf says he is.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:10:57 am
You really should recalibrate your metrics, sir. Who is your partner, be they the good or the ugly I don't care. I know you show confederate when you aren't one, because I'm the confederate general. So, pray tell, who's your partner, NQT?
Also, if that's the way we're playing this, unvote. And lynch me if you want, that's fine.
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 10:20:39 am
Wow, I... misjudged you. You're an even better player than I thought.
In that case, your scumbuddy is SBC?
I'm in league with MOWE.
If we accidentally hit the Bad today, then just nightkill the remaining player and we've won. Why do you think Cheese is Union?
Post by: Teneb on March 06, 2014, 10:24:27 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 10:30:46 am
What's your alignment then, Deathsword?
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 10:34:04 am
Post by: Teneb on March 06, 2014, 10:36:41 am
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 10:41:20 am
I had you pegged as the Bad due to the fact that Scientist was absent from Day 1 and there was only one night kill. Also, you never voted! Gonna take a good hard look at my analysis after all this...
Spoiler: vote analysis stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on March 06, 2014, 10:48:55 am
I suppose my vote on Solymr was a hallucination then?
Also, you never voted!
Shorten
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 10:56:22 am
I suppose my vote on Solymr was a hallucination then?Ah, I meant generally. But, yes, you did have one vote which was better than Superblackcat and about on par with Imperial Guardsman. (Obviously Scientist's absence wasn't your fault.)
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 04:27:05 pm
(thanks 4mask for giving me a list to copy-paste)
4maskwolf - claiming Confed General
MastahCheese - me
NQT - Good/Ugly
Superblackcat - I'll address this below
Deathsword - trying to get me killed? Claiming last town
MOWE - Good/Ugly
So basically, since Wolf is claiming general, and saying that NQT is Good/Ugly, NQT confirms this, and is with MOWE.
And now that you've just claimed confederate, should I even bother answering your accusations? I already admitted I was in a rush, and I already admitted that I should have put more effort into the post, but I was under the assumption that I wouldn't even be there for the day end. And it's not like I could have removed my vote later, as that would have just resulted in a no-lynch.
And think of it this way, if I were scum, why would I have even voted? If I had said nothing at all, then if nobody changed their vote, he would have been lynched anyway, if I were scum, it'd been a far safer bet to just keep my mouth shut and go with the flow, as a non-voter. But no, I actually voiced my opinion.
Well, I guess I did just answer your accusation.
Deathsword: Why are you shortening? You are providing no vote, and you've basically just said that your plan was to try to get me killed under a faulty claim. You've basically just given up, are you that convinced that you've lost? Wait a minute...
Well, game over. No way I can win.You say I, not we.
...You're really the bad, aren't you?
Also why aren't we just lynching 4mask if he just claimed as a confederate? Is there something I'm missing in this equation?
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 05:03:24 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 05:19:42 pm
I also assumeed that being the Bad was, you know, a Bad thing, town-wise, so I did not realize the second part, either, I thought that being Bad held a scum-related victory, not a town one.
Pardon me while I go re-read the rules for like the fourth time now.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 05:21:59 pm
Oh, I see why I thought that the Bad held a scum-victory.
"The Bad: The Bad wins by keeping himself alive until the game ends or the Good and the Ugly are dead. The Bad has a Nightkill. The Bad is essentially an SK with an additional goal. The Bad comes up as Union to inspects."
Since the Good/Ugly shows up as confederate, but seem to be town otherwise, I thought that Bad was actually scum because they show up as town on inspects, like a little inspect-reversal thing.
I inferred it, but that's not actually related to it at all. I get it now.
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 05:27:32 pm
It's bad luck for town, losing four of their number overnight, ordinarily we would have sided with them. But they're dead.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 05:30:05 pm
Deathsword
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 06:18:42 pm
shorten
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 06:57:05 pm
My excuse about the last minute vote was a bunch of crap.
Shorten
Post by: Teneb on March 06, 2014, 07:34:45 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 08:17:36 pm
Also, his D1 unvote got IG lynched. Damn fine play.Why thank you.
Yes, you basically handed me the tools to convince you I was scum. The only player who really pierced my disguise, or at least the only one who was vocal about it, was Caz (if you read this, Caz, I really want to hear how you figured me out). But yeah, I indirectly bussed IG and was prepared to bus Mastah in order to pull the wool over your eyes.
I knew you were third party at the end of night one, NQT. My inspect came back confederate, and you weren't on the scumteam, so....
From there on I tried to figure out who your buddy was and narrowed it down to Deathsword, Solymr, or MOWE. I inspected Soly last night and he died, so it was either Deathsword or MOWE. That's why I suggested that Mastah kill Tiruin: I was worried she would pierce my playstyle AND I didn't think that there was a chance of a backlash kill. Sorry Tiruin.
Which were you, NQT?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 08:33:13 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 09:08:50 pm
I did actually have one niggling doubt about you Day 2 when you posted loads of posts one after the other as if you were artificially trying to increase your postcount just after I'd said Soly had the highest D1 count. I should have nourished that doubt more.
I was pretty busy this last week and maybe otherwise would have done a closer analysis, as it was most of my picks were wrong but it was OK because I managed to carefully tread the line between appearing lynchable (and so avoiding being night killed) but not actually getting lynched. MOWE was much better at the close read scum hunt game than me, she nailed IG and Cheese. I'd happily be on a team with her again.
Reread my first post of this game (just the first paragraph or two) closely and see if you can't guess who I am.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 06, 2014, 09:12:36 pm
I'm the bad, and since good has used it's kill, I'm fine with outing.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 06, 2014, 09:13:42 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 09:15:14 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:04:46 pm
The more I play mafia, the more I figure that the game is won by the more engaged team, or rather, town only win when enough of them are paying more attention than the scum.Actually, that was, contrary to popular belief, not an attempt to pad my post count. What I said in that regard was true: I posted as I thought of things.
I did actually have one niggling doubt about you Day 2 when you posted loads of posts one after the other as if you were artificially trying to increase your postcount just after I'd said Soly had the highest D1 count. I should have nourished that doubt more.
I was pretty busy this last week and maybe otherwise would have done a closer analysis, as it was most of my picks were wrong but it was OK because I managed to carefully tread the line between appearing lynchable (and so avoiding being night killed) but not actually getting lynched. MOWE was much better at the close read scum hunt game than me, she nailed IG and Cheese. I'd happily be on a team with her again.
Reread my first post of this game (just the first paragraph or two) closely and see if you can't guess who I am.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 10:12:37 pm
Also, the reason there was only 1 kill night one was because I sent in my action too late. My bad.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 10:14:51 pm
Post by: Superblackcat on March 06, 2014, 10:16:34 pm
Does 3rd party win when mafia wins?
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:18:47 pm
@ PERSUSThey should, per the rules. It says survive.
Does 3rd party win when mafia wins?
Post by: notquitethere on March 06, 2014, 10:22:30 pm
I think I like mafia but each time a game ends I think I probably won't play it again. It takes a lot of effort to play well and you have to be lucky with the other players in the game, you hope your team mates are active and competent and that you won't be killed on a whim.
SBC
Persus in the OP says "The Bad wins by keeping himself alive until the game ends". The game will end when either all the Confederates are dead or all the Union are dead. I checked this with Persus myself.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:24:37 pm
I've got a weakness for hidden messages. Anagrams too. I almost always seed my alignment in somewhere, in case I want to claim. I try to mix up the patterns though so it's not too obvious. Old West Action is an anagram of Clint Eastwood, as it so happens.I suppose that part is true. That's why I sign up for so many games: if I get fed up with one, I go to a different one. But to each their own way of playing.
I think I like mafia but each time a game ends I think I probably won't play it again. It takes a lot of effort to play well and you have to be lucky with the other players in the game, you hope your team mates are active and competent and that you won't be killed on a whim.
SBC
Persus in the OP says "The Bad wins by keeping himself alive until the game ends". The game will end when either all the Confederates are dead or all the Union are dead. I checked this with Persus myself.
Post by: Silthuri on March 06, 2014, 10:31:18 pm
So I was right about you, mastahcheese. I should have pressed my case harder. Sadly, pressuring isn't something I do well. I find that I'm not a very threatening person.
I sniffed out two scum, but never would have figured out the third. Awesome job, wolf!
And it was a pleasure working with you as well, NQT. I learned quite a bit.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:35:02 pm
I sniffed out two scum, but never would have figured out the third. Awesome job, wolf!Why thank you. I kept so high of a profile that nobody ever suspected me. It worked once, I suppose. Time to think of a new strategy...
And had there not been the random four town kill day/night cycle, I would have been found out. I had no choice but to attack cheese, but if he got lynched than why wouldn't the scum kill me? You would have figured it out eventually.
Post by: Superblackcat on March 06, 2014, 10:38:21 pm
Deathsword
GG!
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 10:45:33 pm
So I was right about you, mastahcheese. I should have pressed my case harder. Sadly, pressuring isn't something I do well. I find that I'm not a very threatening person.Yeah, I suck at being subtle, ironically.
If you want advice on how to press well, I might be able to help, wolfie says I have "Tooney Tunnel" vision.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:46:31 pm
YOu like quoting that, don't you?So I was right about you, mastahcheese. I should have pressed my case harder. Sadly, pressuring isn't something I do well. I find that I'm not a very threatening person.Yeah, I suck at being subtle, ironically.
If you want advice on how to press well, I might be able to help, wolfie says I have "Tooney Tunnel" vision.
It was a reference to a former player, and the phrase is not mine.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 10:48:19 pm
Yes, I do. I'd put it in my sig if I hadn't have already run out of space.YOu like quoting that, don't you?So I was right about you, mastahcheese. I should have pressed my case harder. Sadly, pressuring isn't something I do well. I find that I'm not a very threatening person.Yeah, I suck at being subtle, ironically.
If you want advice on how to press well, I might be able to help, wolfie says I have "Tooney Tunnel" vision.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:49:02 pm
Start a new sig area. That's what others have done.Yes, I do. I'd put it in my sig if I hadn't have already run out of space.YOu like quoting that, don't you?So I was right about you, mastahcheese. I should have pressed my case harder. Sadly, pressuring isn't something I do well. I find that I'm not a very threatening person.Yeah, I suck at being subtle, ironically.
If you want advice on how to press well, I might be able to help, wolfie says I have "Tooney Tunnel" vision.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 06, 2014, 10:51:00 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 06, 2014, 10:56:56 pm
Already have one, I was talking about my sig proper.OHHHHHHHH. I see.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2014, 12:34:35 am
Post by: mastahcheese on March 07, 2014, 12:46:16 am
So basically, Deathsword dies, everyone else still standing wins.
Post by: TolyK on March 07, 2014, 12:52:31 am
I've got a weakness for hidden messages. Anagrams too. I almost always seed my alignment in somewhere, in case I want to claim. I try to mix up the patterns though so it's not too obvious. Old West Action is an anagram of Clint Eastwood, as it so happens.Hot damn.
Post by: Tiruin on March 07, 2014, 12:53:27 am
Sorry, I can't resist.But Clint Eastwood is a good g-I've got a weakness for hidden messages. Anagrams too. I almost always seed my alignment in somewhere, in case I want to claim. I try to mix up the patterns though so it's not too obvious. Old West Action is an anagram of Clint Eastwood, as it so happens.Hot damn.
Ooooh.
Post by: Solymr on March 08, 2014, 09:22:20 am
PS: fken wolf you actually unvote-bussed IG on D1
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 09:28:34 am
I know I'm supposed to be ded, but where's Persus?Yes, yes I did.
PS: fken wolf you actually unvote-bussed IG on D1
Post by: Solymr on March 08, 2014, 09:33:45 am
We all know how that went.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 11:33:59 am
I thought of that possibility but then I dismissed it thinking "that's even less probable than DP being the cop".This is going in my sig.
We all know how that went.
Post by: Persus13 on March 08, 2014, 02:53:52 pm
4maskwolf smiled. "Don't worry, we know he isn't a Confederate."
"Then why have hi-" The Union officer began, but was cut off by a cannon shell hitting the ground near him, causing everyone to scatter. 4maskwolf and Mastahcheese, the Confederate saboteurs, gestured to notquitethere and MyOwnWorstEnemy, the Good and the Ugly to follow them. NQT took one last look around for Superblackcat, the Bad, who had disappeared into the crowd of Union soldiers, before following the Confederates.
Confederate Victory!
Good, Bad, and Ugly Victory!
Since I'm not really proud of my flavor for this game, I'm not going to post it. If you liked the flavor though, feel free to post it.
Scum Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/dNLyJ82LhJM6)
Good/Ugly Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/L4cn7WXKPZz)
Dead Chat (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/wvDE28zaTaUXv)
Night Actions:
N1
Darkpaladin109 inspects Solymr. Gets result of Union.
4maskwolf inspects NQT. Gets result of Confederate.
SBC kills TheDarkStar
N2
Mastahcheese kills Tiruin
SBC kills Solymr
4maskwolf inspects Solymr. Gets result of Union
NQT kills Caz
Post by: Solymr on March 08, 2014, 03:03:55 pm
What the fuck
Edit: why does everyone inspect me
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 03:21:41 pm
And so the confederates went on to win the war, and the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly became friends, shared the gold, and had some icecream. Thus began the legend of the Three Amigos.NQT hadn't made a case against you, so I got the kill on someone who I knew likely wasn't NQT's buddy (and thus not a kill reverser) and inspected you to see if you were his scumbuddy. DarkPaladin can explain his own logic.
What the fuck
Edit: why does everyone inspect me
Caz:
What convinced you that I was scum?
Post by: Imperial Guardsman on March 08, 2014, 03:25:26 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 03:52:32 pm
Quote from: Role PM
You infiltrated the Union camp a few days ago, with two other soldiers, and began sabotaging anything and everything. Now it looks like the Union has narrowed it down to 12 soldiers, including you and your allies, (Imperial Guardsman) and (mastahcheese). Each night, one of you may carry out a Night Kill on another player. In addition, as a Confederate General, you have the ability to carry out an inspect on a player to determine their loyalty to the Union.
Quote from: Inspect NQT
You walk into NQT's tent, and begin searching his belongings for information. At the bottom of his chest, you find a blood stained Confederate Uniform.
Quote from: Inspect Solymr
You created a diversion, at the pub. While Mastahcheese got Solymr drunk at a pub, you crept into his tent and searched it. You found the effects of a Union soldier, including a letter from his sister in Indiana. He must truly fight for the Union.
Post by: zombie urist on March 08, 2014, 04:08:43 pm
Post by: Solymr on March 08, 2014, 04:10:19 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 04:53:47 pm
Post by: notquitethere on March 08, 2014, 05:49:10 pm
Post by: mastahcheese on March 08, 2014, 09:24:09 pm
10/10 would play again.
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2014, 10:43:02 pm
.__.
3/5
Good game. Will enlist again. Conscript me.
Ho ho ho, that was a good game. I've now won as 3rd party survivor, which I've failed to do at least three times before. Shame town were so inactive.*cheers for you*!
Also I didn't know you were taking a masters :D
Edit: I understand MOWE's pain. Finals and all that. >.>
Post by: mastahcheese on March 08, 2014, 10:46:47 pm
All the kills.I'm sorry! You were just a great target to kill!
.__.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 10:48:10 pm
That said, it was frickin' hilarious that the game ended with a bandwagon on confirmed town. That alone is worth something.
Yeah... the kill was partly my fault. Sorry.All the kills.I'm sorry! You were just a great target to kill!
.__.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 08, 2014, 10:53:37 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 10:55:28 pm
He told me to do it!Hey now bud, YOU performed the kill. I just... erm... suggested it... strongly... possibly with the threat of bussing... :P
Post by: mastahcheese on March 08, 2014, 10:56:27 pm
It was some pretty clear orders.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 08, 2014, 10:58:14 pm
You know, they can always just go read the scum chat.I know. Thus the joke at the end of what I said. And I'm pretty sure that... *checks chat*
It was some pretty clear orders.
I said feel free to select a different option.
Post by: Tiruin on March 08, 2014, 11:19:24 pm
I'm happy that finally, someone actually targeted me! I am worth killing over! Yay! \o/
That and oh my goodness those kills.
Post by: Silthuri on March 08, 2014, 11:43:46 pm
Edit: I understand MOWE's pain. Finals and all that. >.>
It's not even finals for me yet. It's just midterm. The main problem is that two of my three exams were in chemistry. And I hate chemistry. I could go on for hours about it...
But it's my spring break now, so it's all good! :D
Upon reading through the chats and such, I'm surprised I got so many compliments.
Post by: mastahcheese on March 08, 2014, 11:58:30 pm
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2014, 12:24:38 am
Organic/Inorganic/Experimental? Because darn was the last one...too technical. u.uEdit: I understand MOWE's pain. Finals and all that. >.>
It's not even finals for me yet. It's just midterm. The main problem is that two of my three exams were in chemistry. And I hate chemistry. I could go on for hours about it...
SO about Biology, need help? :3
Quote
But it's my spring break now, so it's all good! :D*cheers to MOWE*
Upon reading through the chats and such, I'm surprised I got so many compliments.
Also yay spring break for you peoples!
*throws all the envies*
But yeah, we all did good. Then we all died. x_x I wonder if people thought about the targets being town more than being scum...or 'most scummy' at least.
Post by: Solymr on March 09, 2014, 03:10:55 am
I don't get spring break until later :I university works different.
@MOWE: biotechnology here. Math, physics, chemistry, biology, I do everything! Maybe I can help you with some leettle thingys.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2014, 04:31:56 pm
That's what happens when there's 3 NKs and none of them are town.If we're griping about school, my spring break doesn't happen for another two weeks, and in the meantime I have to work up the not-laziness to do a 15 page essay.
I don't get spring break until later :I university works different.
@MOWE: biotechnology here. Math, physics, chemistry, biology, I do everything! Maybe I can help you with some leettle thingys.
On the bright side, chem is easy for me. So I guess you have a bunch of people who could help out if necessary.
Post by: Solymr on March 09, 2014, 04:37:50 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2014, 04:39:13 pm
Thing about university is that I get a lot of free time when I don't get a shitload of work. And stress.Yeah, high school is just a shitload of work all of the time. Particularly second semester.
Ah well. I get to go to college in two years.
Post by: Solymr on March 09, 2014, 04:41:15 pm
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2014, 04:43:31 pm
If you're still two years from college you have no idea what a shitload of work is. Last year of high school is the WORST. Not even college gets this bad.That's what I've heard. On the bright side, I'm taking a ton of easy (read: math and comp sci) classes next year, so I should be able to avoid the brunt of the high school work...
College apps, on the other hand...
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2014, 07:44:35 pm
If you're still two years from college you have no idea what a shitload of work is. Last year of high school is the WORST. Not even college gets this bad....It seemed like a fun year for me--not the people though.
College does get this bad. Have you ever stayed up the whole night just for schoolwork? Quiz every otherday (meaning Everyday on different subjects) along with 'You should know this in [this set of time] or else you fail the quiz [and are assumed to not know it because grades AHAHA].
That's college (or at least pre-med 2nd year onwards in MedTech) for you. That's my life.
One point I'd like to forward:If you're still two years from college you have no idea what a shitload of work is. Last year of high school is the WORST. Not even college gets this bad.That's what I've heard. On the bright side, I'm taking a ton of easy (read: math and comp sci) classes next year, so I should be able to avoid the brunt of the high school work...
College apps, on the other hand...
GET YOUR LEARNING HABITS STRAIGHT. While rote learning sucks and is somehow forwarded by most educational systems (I love Finland and why can't we emulate them), its in seeing the essence of what you're learning to get it done with.
...
...
Though I never found a use for calculus in my life, even in doing engineering puzzles or exercises. While measuring streets and angles to that spooky tree next to my house is fun when bored, I can't find a use of it (other than posterity and preserving what the ancients created, 'tis fun, but not where I would've spent my time learning. History, however, is fun.)
...I'm rambling again. *zips!*
Post by: Caz on March 09, 2014, 08:00:23 pm
Caz:
What convinced you that I was scum?
Bad feel. You were hunting like NQT and mastahcheese, but.. idk, can't put a word on it. Could have been chance as anything.
Good game all, sorry I wasn't actually useful in the days that counted.
Post by: Silthuri on March 09, 2014, 08:02:16 pm
If you're still two years from college you have no idea what a shitload of work is. Last year of high school is the WORST. Not even college gets this bad.
Oh no. Freshman year is horrible for me! Partially because my high school did NOT prepare me for college. I almost never had to study in high school. So coming into college, I have no idea how to study. In college, you don't have people holding your hand every step of the way. It's a freedom some people don't know how to cope with. Like me. I procrastinate like hell. I wrote a seven page paper the night before it was due. I wrote speeches I had to perform in class literally right before class started. No one told me this would be an issue, so it kinda hit me hard. If you're not having trouble with it, please share the secrets you have discovered so that I may not give myself a heart attack before I even become a sophomore.
So yeah. You'll want to get into good study habits and rehearse good time management skills, 4maskwolf. Save yourself some pain and agony.
And thanks everyone! If I have any issues with chem, I'll be sure to ask.
Organic/Inorganic/Experimental? Because darn was the last one...too technical. u.uEdit: I understand MOWE's pain. Finals and all that. >.>
It's not even finals for me yet. It's just midterm. The main problem is that two of my three exams were in chemistry. And I hate chemistry. I could go on for hours about it...
SO about Biology, need help? :3
It's just general chemistry actually. It's just that my professor moves way to fast and there's so much stuff going on... Maybe it won't be so bad for me once we get into more specific things. I dunno.
And thank you for the offer, but the biology I have under control. I love it! And call me crazy, but I love calculus as well.
Post by: Tiruin on March 09, 2014, 08:14:02 pm
Freshie year is that generalsubject year which somehow is like a repeat of HS to get you in-tone for college (not that most subjects here are Major for your course [Major = term used for subjects which are REQUIRED for your course//Minor = term for subjects which 'are advised to take which you should because they help or are related to the subject']If you're still two years from college you have no idea what a shitload of work is. Last year of high school is the WORST. Not even college gets this bad.
Oh no. Freshman year is horrible for me! Partially because my high school did NOT prepare me for college. I almost never had to study in high school. So coming into college, I have no idea how to study. In college, you don't have people holding your hand every step of the way. It's a freedom some people don't know how to cope with. Like me. I procrastinate like hell. I wrote a seven page paper the night before it was due. I wrote speeches I had to perform in class literally right before class started. No one told me this would be an issue, so it kinda hit me hard. If you're not having trouble with it, please share the secrets you have discovered so that I may not give myself a heart attack before I even become a sophomore.
So yeah. You'll want to get into good study habits and rehearse good time management skills, 4maskwolf. Save yourself some pain and agony.
And thanks everyone! If I have any issues with chem, I'll be sure to ask.Organic/Inorganic/Experimental? Because darn was the last one...too technical. u.uEdit: I understand MOWE's pain. Finals and all that. >.>
It's not even finals for me yet. It's just midterm. The main problem is that two of my three exams were in chemistry. And I hate chemistry. I could go on for hours about it...
SO about Biology, need help? :3
It's just general chemistry actually. It's just that my professor moves way to fast and there's so much stuff going on... Maybe it won't be so bad for me once we get into more specific things. I dunno.
And thank you for the offer, but the biology I have under control. I love it! And call me crazy, but I love calculus as well.
Quote
I almost never had to study in high school.*high-five* x3
Yeah. Weird thing is, passing is easy there. College is where the big guns roll! >:D
Quote
In college, you don't have people holding your hand every step of the way.College. The Big World.
It actually shows how reality goes (yeah, I discovered you don't HAVE to ask the teacher for permission to go to the comfort room [or whatever you call the place with the toilet and sink, which I found out is not the general term for such an area. Bathroom?] but just to say that you're going there).
Hence why I like Finland's education. They're hands-on, preparing for Reality.
Quote
I procrastinate like hell.I went through hell and came back! :D
You can too. Just don't procrastinate. ^ ^
Yeah it's hard, but first steps are usually just as hard (and the psychological factor of 'being used to', or coloquially called the 'safety zone/box/comfort zone': being used to procrastinating, that is) is also another part. Bonus thing is: It's purely psychological.
Quote
I wrote a seven page paper the night before it was due. I wrote speeches I had to perform in class literally right before class started. No one told me this would be an issue, so it kinda hit me hard. If you're not having trouble with it, please share the secrets you have discovered so that I may not give myself a heart attack before I even become a sophomore.Learn from thy mistakes, ma'am! ^ ^
Yeah that's what I also discovered. Shame on our educational system in that situation (training before did not prepare for now).
Quote
So yeah. You'll want to get into good study habits and rehearse good time management skills, 4maskwolf. Save yourself some pain and agony.Note to all those who plan to aim for college or whatever like that:
Every. I mean EVERY person in college repeats this as the 'law' there.
Manage yourself, discard the...extra baggage.
Quote
It's just general chemistry actually. It's just that my professor moves way to fast and there's so much stuff going on... Maybe it won't be so bad for me once we get into more specific things. I dunno.Oh its not the calculus I hated, I LOVED it. I hated the professor because he kept on throwing green jokes around and picking on me because I 'talk to myself' a lot (meaning: I whisper to myself, auditory learning, thinking out loud, AND I GET CALLED OUT AND MADE FUN OF BECAUSE OF IT.)
And thank you for the offer, but the biology I have under control. I love it! And call me crazy, but I love calculus as well.
Also, General Chemistry? Mmm, fun :3
Try to read in advance or find ways on how to understand it. It's easy when you get the hang of it (nomenclatures~ how do they work?) and when you get into the advanced stuff?
More fun.
Post by: Silthuri on March 09, 2014, 08:56:43 pm
Ick. Sounds like a shitty professor. I would love to know how those a-holes get jobs teaching people.QuoteIt's just general chemistry actually. It's just that my professor moves way to fast and there's so much stuff going on... Maybe it won't be so bad for me once we get into more specific things. I dunno.Oh its not the calculus I hated, I LOVED it. I hated the professor because he kept on throwing green jokes around and picking on me because I 'talk to myself' a lot (meaning: I whisper to myself, auditory learning, thinking out loud, AND I GET CALLED OUT AND MADE FUN OF BECAUSE OF IT.)
And thank you for the offer, but the biology I have under control. I love it! And call me crazy, but I love calculus as well.
Post by: Persus13 on March 09, 2014, 09:48:14 pm
Post by: Caz on March 09, 2014, 09:51:44 pm
On-topic: I thought the game went well. I was surprised that the third parties didn't come into contact with each other much or at all in play.
I think their wincon could be edited a bit... the game was effectively 5 town, 3 scum and 3 survivors that could choose their side. Imo needs balancing, but that night when 4 town died was just killer.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2014, 09:54:53 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 09, 2014, 09:57:22 pm
6 town, technically. But yes, the number of town-targeted nk's that night was... a lot.Yeah, especially since two were trying to take out third parties.
Well, SBC killed Solymr to be sure he wasn't a baddie. NQT thought Caz was the Bad.
Post by: Caz on March 09, 2014, 10:14:38 pm
NQT thought Caz was the Bad.Just bad at playing :P
Post by: mastahcheese on March 09, 2014, 10:21:44 pm
*Raises glass* Not the only one.NQT thought Caz was the Bad.Just bad at playing :P
Post by: TolyK on March 09, 2014, 11:38:46 pm
But seriously, this was fun to watch.
Post by: 4maskwolf on March 09, 2014, 11:39:46 pm
Oh come on now, cheese. You didn't get lynched, and that has to count for something.*Raises glass* Not the only one.NQT thought Caz was the Bad.Just bad at playing :P
Post by: Tiruin on March 10, 2014, 12:32:12 am
6 town, technically. But yes, the number of town-targeted nk's that night was... a lot.I was surprised upon counting it, actually (see: Deadchat). We were 1 short.
Still, good game!