So this is like BYOR but it is RYOR. Random Your Own Role For the Rest of the Game!Sort of, but I'll be doing the randomising, not the player.
And heya NQT :3Hey!
I'll definitely be watching, as long as I estimate it doesn't take too much time I'll probably !in as well. :PIt should be a quick game.
In. Your generator is mildly hypnotic, by the way.Mild Hypnotist has now been added as a possible role name.
Alpha Mutant: Once per night you can learn the name of yourself.
Insane Timebomber: Once per night you can perform the an action that a random person targeting your target is capable of on a random target.
I'm really noting that this will be a pure daygame game, unless you get a night role that makes vanilla sense :PQuoteAlpha Mutant: Once per night you can learn the name of yourself.
Insane Timebomber: Once per night you can perform the an action that a random person targeting your target is capable of on a random target.
In. I think. Hope this starts soon.
Super Magnet: Once per night you can give a piece of fruit to your target until the next lynch.
That or NQT will be buried under single-liners like "WHAT DOES CURE DO" and other nice things.Cure cures poison. Poison kills the target at the end of the following phase.
It's based on the Fruit Vendor (https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Visitor) role.QuoteSuper Magnet: Once per night you can give a piece of fruit to your target until the next lynch.
wat
Four Masked Anti-Doctor: Once per night you can cure a dead player.I love it when they have an appropriate name.
If we get at least 7 players before Monday, I'll start then. Invite your friends :DDid you just assume I had friends, you Nazi shitlord? I'm literally shaking.
Haha, does that mean your in?If we get at least 7 players before Monday, I'll start then. Invite your friends :DDid you just assume I had friends, you Nazi shitlord? I'm literally shaking.
If we get at least 7 players before Monday, I'll start then. Invite your hostages :D
Cryptic Paladin: Once per night you can learn the target of yourself.
Systemic Exorcist: Once per night you can learn the name of a random target.
The Only Cavalry: If someone targets you, anyone targeting you will morph into their role.
I was considering it, but if you can't even use "you're" correctly, my faith in you as a mod is diminished. I'll in if you see this.Haha, does that mean your in?If we get at least 7 players before Monday, I'll start then. Invite your friends :DDid you just assume I had friends, you Nazi shitlord? I'm literally shaking.
I'll join this. I like the generator.The generator is interesting, that's for sure. There are the useless abilities, the apparently useless but not actually useless abilities, the hilarious abilities, the repeated abilities, the confusing abilities, the grammatically incorrect abilities, and of course the useful abilities. With some overlap.
You haven't... Considered removing null abilities, have you?All the powers will be generated with the generator and given to the player unaltered (to keep the semi-open aspect) but I'll use some judgement in removing some of the possible picks to make sure the game is playable and interesting. Even the null roles can be useful when combined with other abilities that, say, redirect.
I'm happy to play it with them, of course. I suppose it makes it closer to vanilla.
I'll have to Out. Glad there are a lot of players, I'll have fun watching chaos, occasionally... :/Do you want to formally watch (with quicktopic access) or go on the replacement list?
Alienated SpyI'm not quite sure I get this... the word "target" sometimes makes things less clear. Can you have more than one target in an action? More than one type of target?
Once per night you can redirect the actions of a random person targeting everyone targeting two targets to another player. Action: Redirect.
Once per night
you can redirect the actions of:
a random person targeting: [everyone: targeting two targets]
to another player.
Alpha TownieThis would only successfully work if everyone targeting your target all shared the same ability. That's a situation that could happen if another power had given everyone an identical copy of an ability.
Once per night you can swap this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting your target. Action: Swap.
So... target someone, everyone targeting that player loses an ability to the user of this one, and then they all get this ability? Or is it they get a piece of this ability?
I think some of these names are based off players. "Four masked..."Haha yeah, all the names are based on Xylbot's role list (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=12368) but I added a few more adjectives to the list for variety.
Evil MonolithThat would be a monolithically evil power! And you're right, it would instantly kill the game. As part of running the game, I'll prune any role that would make the game unfun (i.e. by being incredibly overpowered).
Once per night you can kill everyone who is not targeting you. Action: Kill.
Something like this could bring the game to a halt.
Ability suggestions:Good suggestions, I'll throw them in a new Protect action with a possible recursion.
Target is un-primed.
Target is immune to being blocked this phase.
Target is immune to being redirected this phase(could be combined with above).
Target is immune to the lynch next day(rare).
So um, parsing out the many [THINGS LIKE THIS] in the first bit, what were you saying by showing all that, NQT?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?I'm going to treat the game as normal mafia with a couple of unknown power roles thrown in. I suspect most roles will be bloody useless.
Wow lots of people I dont know. TDS; everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?(I've met in mafias, I'm certain! Or time-wasted here/elsewhere roughly similar. But forget which game(s) exactly, without looking it up. Too long a gap to recall.)
1) Useless night actions: do people think town should use them?
2) Regarding census takers: if someone can get a list of all the roles in play, should they post it at once?
@Ninja-ey NJW2K: 1) Define useless, but each to their own.In case this was non-rhetorical, I mean the sort of "no impact unless someone else gets involved" roles you can get, like
The Only Pacifistor
Once per night you can inform your target of a dead player's name. Action: Inform.
Elite MUP
Once per night you can give a copy of this ability to your target's target. Action: Gift.
NQT: How many actions can a player use per night? Are they permanently restricted to one action no matter how many abilities they have, or if they acquire an additional ability, can they use both abilities they have in the same night?Players can only use one action a phase. If they have more than one action (like SKs and Mafia can) then they have to choose what to use. Anyone can be brainwashed into performing extra actions in a phase, and some actions can state in their description that they can be used more than once in a phase.
NQT; Quick question: Will you reveal a dead character's alignment if they die at night, and who they were? I am a bit new, after all.Yes, there's a full reveal of role, abilities and alignment on death.
Right, I'm going to fail to practise what I preach below, and talk about powers.I think they should. There's a few ways of gaining alibis for the mafiakill with them (stuff that triggers if you target a particular person, for example). In particular:
1) Useless night actions: do people think town should use them?
I think not. They will make it harder for town to have clear information or understanding of what went on.
In case this was non-rhetorical, I mean the sort of "no impact unless someone else gets involved" roles you can get, likeThese abilities are actually confirmable by other players, so can definitely be used to prove you didn't do the mafiakill. If you have an ability like this and don't use it, I will strongly suspect you were using a kill instead.QuoteThe Only Pacifistor
Once per night you can inform your target of a dead player's name. Action: Inform.Quote
Elite MUP
Once per night you can give a copy of this ability to your target's target. Action: Gift.
... looking at it, seems like the generator has been rerigged to not give as many of those abilities. Ho hum.
2) Regarding census takers: if someone can get a list of all the roles in play, should they post it at once?I'd say the answer is no, for two reasons.
I don't see why not. Knowing about a chaotic or disruptive role will benefit town more than scum. And town will benefit more from knowing what might have happened on a certain night.
These abilities are actually confirmable by other players, so can definitely be used to prove you didn't do the mafiakill. If you have an ability like this and don't use it, I will strongly suspect you were using a kill instead.Basically my reasoning for liking people to use abilities like this.
In fact, since the majority of players seem to receive a night action and many of them leave evidence it may actually be possible to identify the mafiakill user by process of elimination later on in the game.
1. Revealing the list gives the mafia a much better idea of what they have to avoid and what lies they can safely make.Huh, I didn't think about that. Interesting reasoning.
2. The threat of a role list existing should discourage the mafia from falseclaiming even if there isn't actually anyone who can generate a role list in the game. If we all agree that someone with a role list should claim immediately then the absence of a claim would prove that no-one in the game has that ability, meaning the scum could falseclaim freely. I'd rather leave it ambiguous until we reach what is likely to be a "lynch mafia or lose" situation.
I'm still firing up the generator for fun... and I found another typo.
Black Hearted Anti-Matter
Once per night you can brainwash yourself into performing a random action that they're capable of on your target's target. Action: Brainwash.
Ah, sorry. I see, you mean the subject disagreement of target=="yourself" being the same "them"-ish word intended to cover all other (non-self) targets. Sorry. How best to deal with that, in the scripting language used? Maybe easiest to have a target_nonself group (used as a subset of target_allpossible, if necessary, which adds yourself to that prior list, in places where there's not going to be any referent disagreement arising.Inform should be able to handle that easily. I mean, I know how I'd do it, but I didn't read the source closely enough (beyond noting the language) to tell you how best to fit it in here, except to say that the language is designed for things like that.
These abilities are actually confirmable by other players, so can definitely be used to prove you didn't do the mafiakill. If you have an ability like this and don't use it, I will strongly suspect you were using a kill instead.Should we organise a sort of order for using abilities?
In fact, since the majority of players seem to receive a night action and many of them leave evidence it may actually be possible to identify the mafiakill user by process of elimination later on in the game. Everyone should definitely be using their abilities.
I continue to be against imposing any artificial order on anything, and I will exercise my Radical Freedom as appropriate.... What exactly are you doing, Maximum Spin?
Duuuude. He's excercising huis radical freedom as appropriate. Can't you read, man?I continue to be against imposing any artificial order on anything, and I will exercise my Radical Freedom as appropriate.... What exactly are you doing, Maximum Spin?
The entire "should you useless night power or not useless night power" thing is entirely academic to me, my role is entirely passive. That being said, I guess target me if you want hilarity to happen to someone else.Anypoodle. You doggam god lover. I've got some hilarity too. N1 is going to be all like Chrismas for all you sonsabvitches. And it'll give NQT a headache, which is the most omp[ortant thing to consider about all of this.
It's not launching a nuke at someone, but still pretty fucking fun.
Anypoodle.
Tiruin: I'll define scum as scum, thank you very much. To get to what you were actually asking, scumtells are pretty situational, but base scumtells should still work in this game. Role based ones may be a bit trickier with all the fuckery, but that's super context dependent.
NJW: As to your second question, meh. I get the impression there will be some amount of role-changing this game, but that information can never hurt to have. I'd say yes, although with existing situations where keeping that information private for a day or two might be beneficial.
Fun fact: That exact ability, the ability to get a list of all powers in play, was what broke the first NQT game I ever played in.
Alright I'll get back to ya'll later break is over.
Day will end 12AM 26th Oct BST. Hammering is possible from Monday (BST) onwards.Seems hammers are online (at least at my time now :V)
Wow lots of people I dont know. TDS; everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?
Not sure if it's possible to screw up RVS, but lets see.1. When people have information--contextually, at this stage, nope. Later on when ideas come out, yep. Contextually, if it is agreed that EVERYONE TOWN at this stage with a useless action/reactive action doesn't act, it'll note how claims would go in the future, even in the series of when people claim. But assuming otherwise makes a very delicate assumption--that is if people actually can track, and in a randomized game like this, everything before information can be thrown to theory, and easy grounds for falsification by scum.
Right, I'm going to fail to practise what I preach below, and talk about powers.
1) Useless night actions: do people think town should use them?
I think not. They will make it harder for town to have clear information or understanding of what went on.
2) Regarding census takers: if someone can get a list of all the roles in play, should they post it at once?
I don't see why not. Knowing about a chaotic or disruptive role will benefit town more than scum. And town will benefit more from knowing what might have happened on a certain night.
Why mention this now when this viable idea is better off later O_OThese abilities are actually confirmable by other players, so can definitely be used to prove you didn't do the mafiakill. If you have an ability like this and don't use it, I will strongly suspect you were using a kill instead.Should we organise a sort of order for using abilities?
In fact, since the majority of players seem to receive a night action and many of them leave evidence it may actually be possible to identify the mafiakill user by process of elimination later on in the game. Everyone should definitely be using their abilities.
I think we certainly should not do it at random, for several reasons. One is that it would be very chaotic and confusing to have people claim or not claim what was them the next day, and would make d2 focus on claims, not results. Another is that some town players might have anti-town or chaotic passives that activate when targeted: 4maskwolf has already claimed to have a strong passive, for example.
If so, what sort of order should it be?
Pairs? A long snake in the form p1>p2>p3>p4>etc? The fact that some abilities apply to a target's target might complicate matters.
This is for everyone, not just Leafsnail, by the way. If you have thoughts, chip in.
NQT; Quick question: Will you reveal a dead character's alignment if they die at night, and who they were? I am a bit new, after all.Is there any indication NQT wouldn't?
Wow lots of people I dont know. TDS; everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?(I've met in mafias, I'm certain! Or time-wasted here/elsewhere roughly similar. But forget which game(s) exactly, without looking it up. Too long a gap to recall.)
Mulling it lightly, evidently randomnesses in setup harms our regular knowhows. I'm not done analysing character options, placing my own function exactly. 'Til then, I'll probably just chatter until the first night unless someone has a better railroading method in mind. (Yeah, abducating responsibility, but wanted to at least check in.)
From the stranger ones I've seen, I get the impression that imagination of use is still practical even with the nonsensical ones. Depending on action-order, even the informing the dead one might be useful, in the right circumstances.Why the softclaim @_@ it reads like a softclaim to me! Soft as in it gives concrete ideas even if it's not specific O_O
But I'm also glad I'm not lumbered with it.
The entire "should you useless night power or not useless night power" thing is entirely academic to me, my role is entirely passive. That being said, I guess target me if you want hilarity to happen to someone else.Y u softclaim :V
It's not launching a nuke at someone, but still pretty fucking fun.
Anypoodle.
Tiruin: I'll define scum as scum, thank you very much. To get to what you were actually asking, scumtells are pretty situational, but base scumtells should still work in this game. Role based ones may be a bit trickier with all the fuckery, but that's super context dependent.
NJW: As to your second question, meh. I get the impression there will be some amount of role-changing this game, but that information can never hurt to have. I'd say yes, although with existing situations where keeping that information private for a day or two might be beneficial.
Fun fact: That exact ability, the ability to get a list of all powers in play, was what broke the first NQT game I ever played in.
Alright I'll get back to ya'll later break is over.
Why isn't this a vote?I continue to be against imposing any artificial order on anything, and I will exercise my Radical Freedom as appropriate.... What exactly are you doing, Maximum Spin?
1) Why mention this now when this viable idea is better off later O_O1) If this is a question, I didn't realise that the idea would be better later. There are arguments for doing it soon, such as everyone having one and only one power at this point in the game.
An order of a sorts, or plans, is commonly the orthodox thing to do when scenarios such as action-proving and tracking is a viable option. Commonly, people would match up whose actions really can contradict to logic-out the one lying.
Coincidentally--this may not work at all, because RANDOMIZATION also affects scum, who would probably be playing on the randomwheel to see what fakeclaims they can dredge up.
2) Do you have other mentions to nudge other people here to forward your goal, NJW?
So, yeah. It's gona be all like Christmas in October all up in here soon.Shakerag: How come you're so sure the chaos and festivity you're planning isn't likely to massively benefit the scumteam?
Should we organise a sort of order for using abilities?
I think we certainly should not do it at random, for several reasons. One is that it would be very chaotic and confusing to have people claim or not claim what was them the next day, and would make d2 focus on claims, not results. Another is that some town players might have anti-town or chaotic passives that activate when targeted: 4maskwolf has already claimed to have a strong passive, for example.
If so, what sort of order should it be?
Pairs? A long snake in the form p1>p2>p3>p4>etc? The fact that some abilities apply to a target's target might complicate matters.
I continue to be against imposing any artificial order on anything, and I will exercise my Radical Freedom as appropriate.... What exactly are you doing, Maximum Spin?
Ah, being literal, but not literal enough. In that case, I claim specifically that I don't have the ability so commented upon. My positive claims will surely follow...From the stranger ones I've seen, I get the impression that imagination of use is still practical even with the nonsensical ones. Depending on action-order, even the informing the dead one might be useful, in the right circumstances.Why the softclaim @_@ it reads like a softclaim to me! Soft as in it gives concrete ideas even if it's not specific O_O
But I'm also glad I'm not lumbered with it.
Putting what I said another way: I will chatter until a better method, leading to railroading, in mind.Mulling it lightly, evidently randomnesses in setup harms our regular knowhows. I'm not done analysing character options, placing my own function exactly. 'Til then, I'll probably just chatter until the first night unless someone has a better railroading method in mind. (Yeah, abducating responsibility, but wanted to at least check in.)And 'railroading' is conversation, and voting-to-hammer.
Putting what I said another way: I will chatter until a better method, leading to railroading, in mind.EBWOP, because that totally messed up in pre-editing: "...comes to mind".
WoooOooo alright. Game starts at my sleepytime :'(
TDS; everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?
Fair enough, but I'm a gambling man and I'm gambling that town will get more fun stuff than scum. If someone is willing to claim they're targeting someone (and who that someone is) then I can get my ho ho ho on.So, yeah. It's gona be all like Christmas in October all up in here soon.Shakerag: How come you're so sure the chaos and festivity you're planning isn't likely to massively benefit the scumteam?
Eh. I suppose there's an argument that more powers for town can't be a bad thing. Provided town don't shoot themselves in the foot.How's about you target me so at least we've got a point of reference that isn't just a one-on-one? :V
I could target you if you like.
Just like what any scum would say :PWoooOooo alright. Game starts at my sleepytime :'(
TDS; everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?
Eh, it's a larger game so there's a lot of interaction. Roles are (mostly) random so you can't really get alignments from them. I'll probably be looking for the usual scumtells (which work pretty well unless I'm scum myself and there's no other scum to find).
I thought we weren't rearranging the deckchairs until we hit the iceberg. But very well, I'll target someone else.Are people implicitly referencing the Titanic now? :P
You know, there's not really enough data to go on to be flinging accusations around yet.It's Monday. People aren't committing to dialogue. You seem to be taking my vote as something? :O
But since I guess we're on that train anyway,
I currently assume F-of-U is just misguided. No hard feelings.
But Tiruin needs to settle down some.
And why mention FoU?He is the other with a listed vote, and it is for me.
And...'misguided' comes from what, Maximum Spin?And why mention FoU?He is the other with a listed vote, and it is for me.
On the bright side, I've decided to invoke Hanlon's Razor. My vote stands, but if cooler heads prevail and even the slightest No Lynch consensus forms, I'll join it.And yet you haven't decided to talk to the people voting you or detail your ideas or motives? :P
And yet you haven't decided to talk to the people voting you or detail your ideas or motives? :PIt is correct to infer that I am choosing not to do that.
Like, that whole idea of how you described me, for one. Or your idea as to why people vote.
It is, one way. But cutting communication is not good for dialogue given all the time we have.And yet you haven't decided to talk to the people voting you or detail your ideas or motives? :PIt is correct to infer that I am choosing not to do that.
Like, that whole idea of how you described me, for one. Or your idea as to why people vote.
WoooOooo alright. Game starts at my sleepytime :'(
That means NQT is really back and woo.
Also PFPhone
Wow lots of people I dont know. TDS; everyone how are ya gonna treat the game with what seems to be 50% out of context content? How will you also see the day game? And how would you define "scum"; by the book 'scumtells' or otherwise?
Bluhbluhhsleep
Not sure if it's possible to screw up RVS, but lets see.
Right, I'm going to fail to practise what I preach below, and talk about powers.
1) Useless night actions: do people think town should use them?
I think not. They will make it harder for town to have clear information or understanding of what went on.
2) Regarding census takers: if someone can get a list of all the roles in play, should they post it at once?
I don't see why not. Knowing about a chaotic or disruptive role will benefit town more than scum. And town will benefit more from knowing what might have happened on a certain night.
kingawsume: because the lynch is our main source of information. If we don't lynch we actually lose out on important information that could really help us in the long run.This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.
Starver: What exactly is railroading?Peer-pressurised actions, in this context/how I'm using it. It can work both ways: "We have to lynch somebody, and if you don't think that, those who do will lynch you!" or "If you insist on randomly lynching someone, let's randomly choose yourself" are two opposing (and differently fallacious) ways of doing things in a railroady way.
kingawsume: because the lynch is our main source of information. If we don't lynch we actually lose out on important information that could really help us in the long run.What do you take me for, a fool? Lynching Day 1 both casts suspicion upon ones's self and rids the game of a player ridiculously early; Town of Salem may not be the best analogy for forum Mafia, but the concepts apply crossly.
And yet you decidedly mention that everyone here controls you in a way?kingawsume: because the lynch is our main source of information. If we don't lynch we actually lose out on important information that could really help us in the long run.This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.
ETA: also I'm not refusing to talk, but it won't be on anyone's terms.
O_okingawsume: because the lynch is our main source of information. If we don't lynch we actually lose out on important information that could really help us in the long run.What do you take me for, a fool? Lynching Day 1 both casts suspicion upon ones's self and rids the game of a player ridiculously early; Town of Salem may not be the best analogy for forum Mafia, but the concepts apply crossly.
Salem d1 nolynches eh? Not as weird as one irl mafia game I knew where they started at night. Takes all sorts to make a world, I guess.Wait wha, are Max. S, and King Ossum both only exposed to Town of Salem? :V
Wait wha, are Max. S, and King Ossum both only exposed to Town of Salrm? :VMyself, yes. This is my first foray into Forum Mafia.
This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.I think No Lynch is definitely wrong. The reason is because the lynch at least has a chance of hitting a mafia member, and if it misses at least it hits someone suspicious we could end up lynching later anyway. On the other hand if we No Lynch the mafia gets to make more kills, and those always hit town and generally hit better/townier looking players.
Incidentally, in keeping with my earlier promise and kingawsume's vote, no lynch.
ETA: also I'm not refusing to talk, but it won't be on anyone's terms.
This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.Elaborate on your viewpoint, please. Surely there are patterns of behavior committed during the day that are suspicious and merit voting? And if we're not going to at least try to find somebody, what's the point of Day 1? Whether or not we hit right, we're going to have much more to talk about day 2 due to day 1 scum hunting.
Since this came up in my last mafia game I'd like to ask for everyone's opinions on liars. Which is to say,It depends on the justification they provide. For example, a player could make themselves seem like a strong active role when in fact they poison anyone who kills them, or something like that. Mafia shoot them, get poisoned for their trouble. If they don't provide a justification, however, or scramble to cover up their mistake... that's someone my vote would go on.
if someone softclaims something on day one and then contradicts that in a later claim, how do you treat that person? I will provide my own perspective later.
On the bright side, I've decided to invoke Hanlon's Razor. My vote stands, but if cooler heads prevail and even the slightest No Lynch consensus forms, I'll join it.But like... somebody, I forget who, said a bit earlier, why not just plain vote for No Lynch rather than wait?
Eh. I suppose there's an argument that more powers for town can't be a bad thing. Provided town don't shoot themselves in the foot.No no no, don't target me. Tell me who you're targeting. According to my role, I give abilities to everyone to everyone who isn't targeting a random target of my target. And now the word target looks funny.
I could target you if you like.
Anyway, MaximumSpin, assuming you survive the lynch, how would you feel about me targeting you with an ability that does nothing? Mostly for Shakerag's benefit, he's softclaiming some kind of mass ability gifting ability, and needs to know about someone targeting someone else, apparently.Ain't a problem for me, my ability doesn't recoil or anything. Actually, I might as well straight up inform you that I have a save-target ability. Yeah, you know, the kind of thing you usually want to avoid losing on the first turn!
I think No Lynch is definitely wrong. The reason is because the lynch at least has a chance of hitting a mafia member, and if it misses at least it hits someone suspicious we could end up lynching later anyway. On the other hand if we No Lynch the mafia gets to make more kills, and those always hit town and generally hit better/townier looking players.this is insane, the chance of hitting a mafia member in the first turn is by definition less than the chance of hitting someone harmless, and "hit[ting] someone suspicious we could end up lynching later anyway" is so obviously a bad thing that I am seriously reconsidering the possibility that you three are Mafia. But I'm still holding to No Lynch unless a strong consensus emerges in agreement, because No Lynch is better than you idiots lynching me, and hopefully people will be willing to bandwagon onto that when there are already two votes.
Now I do believe that suggesting this is an honest mistake on the part of Maximum Spin and kingawsume rather than a deliberate attempt to gain an outcome favourable for the mafia. However, I find it suspicious that you refused to commit to your idea until someone else expressed their support for it. A desire to not stand out can be a mafia tell. Please explain to me why you were unwilling to cast the first no lynch vote but happy to cast the second.I did, in fact, commit to my idea from the start. My first sentence in my voting post expressed the idea. However, people are usually too eager to lynch and it can be hard to regain a No Lynch consensus in a game when the first few voters go off half-cocked like this.
No, no there are not, there are only snap judgements, prejudices, and — well, actually, I stop myself, no, there's one thing you can do on Day 1 that's suspicious and merits voting: be too eager to lynch on Day 1. The point of Day 1 is to collect data, but you definitively cannot have adequate data from just Day 1 - unless the mafia are dumb enough to give it to you by being too eager to lynch on Day 1.This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.Elaborate on your viewpoint, please. Surely there are patterns of behavior committed during the day that are suspicious and merit voting? And if we're not going to at least try to find somebody, what's the point of Day 1? Whether or not we hit right, we're going to have much more to talk about day 2 due to day 1 scum hunting.
But like... somebody, I forget who, said a bit earlier, why not just plain vote for No Lynch rather than wait?I don't know, it seems to have worked pretty well as a strategy, I've managed to make a few people engage in extremely suspicious behaviour.
And finally... if you prefer to no lynch day 1, why did you vote Tiruin?
Yeah, you know, the kind of thing you usually want to avoid losing on the first turn!Unless, of course, it's a mafia player that has it. It would be such a pain if we couldn't lynch a mafia player if you protected them from the lynch.
this is insane, the chance of hitting a mafia member in the first turn is by definition less than the chance of hitting someone harmless...
it can be hard to regain a No Lynch consensus in a game when the first few voters go off half-cocked like this.
there's one thing you can do on Day 1 that's suspicious and merits voting: be too eager to lynch on Day 1.
Quote from: FallacyofUristAnd finally... if you prefer to no lynch day 1, why did you vote Tiruin?I don't know, it seems to have worked pretty well as a strategy, I've managed to make a few people engage in extremely suspicious behaviour.
Unless, of course, it's a mafia player that has it. It would be such a pain if we couldn't lynch a mafia player if you protected them from the lynch.Oh, sorry, was unclear, it's a nighttime ability. ie, save from nightmoves, not from lynch.
Interesting how you subtly segue onto calling me things and impressions when you don't pay awareness to several factors :PQuoteBut like... somebody, I forget who, said a bit earlier, why not just plain vote for No Lynch rather than wait?I don't know, it seems to have worked pretty well as a strategy, I've managed to make a few people engage in extremely suspicious behaviour.
And finally... if you prefer to no lynch day 1, why did you vote Tiruin?
ETA: I suppose it's clear enough that I'm pointedly ignoring Tiruin, but I did want to add that no, I've actually never played Town of Salem, but I have played IRC Mafia with people who are... ah... somewhat better at this.
You know, there's not really enough data to go on to be flinging accusations around yet.Impressions stick farther than current analysis, and as you're pretty new to forum mafia, have a basic outline.
But since I guess we're on that train anyway,
I currently assume F-of-U is just misguided. No hard feelings.
But Tiruin needs to settle down some.
What's the current vote count, anybody?Soft Hammers.
- Semi-hammers in effect. Days last on a soft 72 hours, unless majority is voting for any player or No Lynch. If a player is hammered, there is to be no more talking. If you accidentally post something after the hammer, you can and should edit out the post.Not including weekends WHICH NQT DIDN'T MENTION HMPF :I
Fingers are carefully rendered pixel by pixel and then pointed at one another.
Vote Count
Tiruin
TheDarkStar [1] - juicebox
Fallacy of Urist
NJW2000
codybob1999
Starver
Maximum Spin [3] - Fallacy of Urist, Tiruin, Leafsnail
Leafsnail
Shakerag
4maskwolf
kingawsume
BlackHeartKabal
juicebox
no lynch [2] - Maximum Spin, kingawsume
Day will end 12AM 26th Oct BST. Hammering is now possible.
Or you could settle down and discover that the ability to presume less was inside you all along.I have found my mandala in this time of peace. ^ ^
Since this came up in my last mafia game I'd like to ask for everyone's opinions on liars. Which is to say,I'd base it on the context. >_<
if someone softclaims something on day one and then contradicts that in a later claim, how do you treat that person? I will provide my own perspective later.
For example, I think you will find that I never said anything about whether I have or have not played forum Mafia. I merely said that I haven't played it in real life, and have played it on IRC. This is an example of a presumption. You also presume that I have impressions of you, or that my ignoring your previous questions constitutes a refusal to discuss (as the fact of this current post clearly disproves), to name a few more. You presume that I do not know how to communicate or daygame effectively, when I have in fact said precisely as much as I felt the need to say at every individual point in time; you presume that I'm "templating" when you have no idea what I'm thinking. You currently seem to be presuming that I targeted you for voting for me, which is especially odd since you voted for me after I voted for you. You'll probably even presume that I'm answering you now because something has changed on my end, as a result of something you said, instead of this being the natural evolution of my previous state, with no intrinsic conflict, which it is. These are the kinds of things that I mean.Or you could settle down and discover that the ability to presume less was inside you all along.I have found my mandala in this time of peace. ^ ^
But um, if it wasn't that clear--I wasn't presuming at all; I was pretty much dialoguing with you to get an idea of you. Also your impressions are still there :V (It helps to detail those impressions because you're not going to be JUMPLYNCHED or whatever, as everything is in record [also no editing posts, as an aside to anyone new to this])
...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial. In a way, it is, but on forum mafia inasmuch as other mafia games, people are influenced by the Flow of information rather than impressions (unless...they stick to impressions. It's more on part of how anyone personally thinks and that's a place for their own guidance and growth), so even if you've a vote on you, it doesn't matter. Context defines how much it matters. (Pretty much the #1 rule in BMs being taught; how to treat votes on yourself, or you being given ideas on thoughts on when you see others voting others)
If you think my vote is pretty 'presumey' on you; I respond that "that is strange", because in the lack of details forthcoming, the only major inference I have is 'you're presuming I'm presuming you're Town' ...which is weird both ways. But you 'refused' to talk with me. :P
In the day game on forums, we at times don't rely on actions unless it is a super power heavy game, and even then. (This game I doubt has any day powers given that we can ROLL the random generator to try spotting them). That is the core root of at least, how I was taught (since Bay12 is the first place I both met Mafia, and played it since...2012-13? .__.;). It's in the BMs (Beginner's Mafia), where other forum goers go as ICs and teach us the ropes alongside our own strategies. As a benefit, it teaches how to work with impersonal mediums of communication, and how to clarify your idea in a way that doesn't rely on the fear of being lynched, or that kind of 'how to think about the daygame' in a way that'd be productive. As a contrary point, it may lead to templating itself in 'how the day game "should" be played', but this forum isn't much on that, although there have been times where that happened. It's the follow up that matters in moving this course of communication forward.
For example, I think you will find that I never said anything about whether I have or have not played forum Mafia. I merely said that I haven't played it in real life, and have played it on IRC. This is an example of a presumption. You also presume that I have impressions of you, or that my ignoring your previous questions constitutes a refusal to discuss (as the fact of this current post clearly disproves), to name a few more. You presume that I do not know how to communicate or daygame effectively, when I have in fact said precisely as much as I felt the need to say at every individual point in time; you presume that I'm "templating" when you have no idea what I'm thinking. You currently seem to be presuming that I targeted you for voting for me, which is especially odd since you voted for me after I voted for you. You'll probably even presume that I'm answering you now because something has changed on my end, as a result of something you said, instead of this being the natural evolution of my previous state, with no intrinsic conflict, which it is. These are the kinds of things that I mean.Well >_< You...only replied to my posts with presumption! (And I have never said you haven't played forum Mafia :P It is hard to use x-person pronouns that way when I mean to be speaking in the plural 'you')
...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial.and the following paragraph passim; you seem to be presuming that my actions have in some way been in response to a vote placed on me. The only way I have responded to votes placed on me directly, so far, has been to describe F-of-U as misguided for doing so.
kingawsume: because the lynch is our main source of information. If we don't lynch we actually lose out on important information that could really help us in the long run.This is decidedly false; over-eagerness to lynch is a very good sign of mafia alignment. Until the first mafia action you have nothing, no matter how much you believe otherwise; no point wasting two players when you could lose only one.
Incidentally, in keeping with my earlier promise and kingawsume's vote, no lynch.
ETA: also I'm not refusing to talk, but it won't be on anyone's terms.
In re targeting I mean to respond to:...Also I'm getting the feeling that you feel 'having a vote placed on you' is something substantial.and the following paragraph passim; you seem to be presuming that my actions have in some way been in response to a vote placed on me. The only way I have responded to votes placed on me directly, so far, has been to describe F-of-U as misguided for doing so.
I will also add that I don't mean that your vote is presumptive, although in principle I suppose it is, but that your statements and questions have been.
Salem d1 nolynches eh? Not as weird as one irl mafia game I knew where they started at night. Takes all sorts to make a world, I guess
You seem to be missing the point. What Tiruin is trying to say is that you can't always apply the principles from other forms of mafia or even other forums to this one, because the styles of gameplay can vary wildly. Tiruin is not being presumptive she's trying to help a new player to this forum get accustomed to our meta, which can take some getting used to.This is an excellent example of a series of presumptions.
You targeting yaself, I take it?Can't. Doesn't matter who I target, really. Any volunteers?
Anyway: thoughts no nolynch/presumption stuff: it's good that such dialogue is going on, but nobody seems particularly off in that exchange, just fairly fimly set in their ideas.. That said, might be worth lynching one of the "no-lynchers" just in case they have similarly flawed or just disruptive ideas about the rest of the game, if nobody looks particularly scummy.I'd just like to assure you that I am not set in any ideas except Radical Freedom.
Can't. Doesn't matter who I target, really. Any volunteers?If you don't mind triggering my ability, me. My ability shouldn't be lethal...
OTOH, the Trick action subchoices ends with an OR-blank, suggesting the possibility of getting an act only of "<target> until the next lynch", if I manually interpret the syntax correctly.This is a thing, as I found earlier.
Cryptic Robot
Once per night you can yourself until the next lynch. Action: Trick.
Insane Gambler
Once per night you can two targets until the next lynch. Action: Trick.
ALL THE SOFTCLAIMS :ICan't. Doesn't matter who I target, really. Any volunteers?If you don't mind triggering my ability, me. My ability shouldn't be lethal...
Yes we presume :PYou seem to be missing the point. What Tiruin is trying to say is that you can't always apply the principles from other forms of mafia or even other forums to this one, because the styles of gameplay can vary wildly. Tiruin is not being presumptive she's trying to help a new player to this forum get accustomed to our meta, which can take some getting used to.This is an excellent example of a series of presumptions.
That settles it. I'm poking Tiruin with my thing at night. Please don't be a PGO.ALL THE SOFTCLAIMS :ICan't. Doesn't matter who I target, really. Any volunteers?If you don't mind triggering my ability, me. My ability shouldn't be lethal...
Guys, where's the dialogue between each other.
There's just "I will POKE YOU WITH THIS THING at NIGHT!"
Even when I volunteered by being poked with all the things. HMPF :IThat settles it. I'm poking Tiruin with my thing at night. Please don't be a PGO.ALL THE SOFTCLAIMS :ICan't. Doesn't matter who I target, really. Any volunteers?If you don't mind triggering my ability, me. My ability shouldn't be lethal...
Guys, where's the dialogue between each other.
There's just "I will POKE YOU WITH THIS THING at NIGHT!"
Y u softclaim :VI never lie in wait, I'm far too impatient for that. And I softclaimed because why the fuck not. This game isn't going to have the slightest semblance of balance, so I'm not taking it super seriously. I mean, I'm trying to win, but this isn't going to be me in Paranormal 25 or anything.
Will you jump into conversation to help yourself or just bait and lie in wait there? O_O
Maximum Spin: Town information, especially in a game as ridiculous as this one, can only reliably be gained through the day game.Daygame is important, but it shouldn't end in lynching for no reason, and going the formulaic RVS route just leads to low-quality information.
neither is pretty much any other day in isolation: you have to get information over the course of several days, and watching how people vote can provide additional weight to a case further down the road.This is exactly what I'm saying.
And for the record, the first mafiakill very rarely provides useful information. It's generally targeted at whoever the mafia felt was most townie during the day, or on occasion someone they think has found them out and they don't want speaking anymore. Which, again, you can't even glean any info from that if people just bandwagon onto no lynch.I didn't mean to imply that it would - what I mean to imply is that the first day, night, and second day together are a better source of information than the first day alone.
I'd argue that the knowledge that the day will end in a no-lynch would reduce the quality of information, since the scum have no need to try and get an actual lynch and know they're in no danger if people suspect them day one and thus aren't put under pressure, but I think at this point it's just difference of opinion. Fair enough.Maximum Spin: Town information, especially in a game as ridiculous as this one, can only reliably be gained through the day game.Daygame is important, but it shouldn't end in lynching for no reason, and going the formulaic RVS route just leads to low-quality information.Quoteneither is pretty much any other day in isolation: you have to get information over the course of several days, and watching how people vote can provide additional weight to a case further down the road.This is exactly what I'm saying.QuoteAnd for the record, the first mafiakill very rarely provides useful information. It's generally targeted at whoever the mafia felt was most townie during the day, or on occasion someone they think has found them out and they don't want speaking anymore. Which, again, you can't even glean any info from that if people just bandwagon onto no lynch.I didn't mean to imply that it would - what I mean to imply is that the first day, night, and second day together are a better source of information than the first day alone.
So backing up, why do you believe a no lynch is better?Maximum Spin: Town information, especially in a game as ridiculous as this one, can only reliably be gained through the day game.Daygame is important, but it shouldn't end in lynching for no reason, and going the formulaic RVS route just leads to low-quality information.
That being said--what about everyone else who isn't focused on the day (talkin' bout y'all and more, NIGHT POKERS!), is there not anything people have to talk about :VAm I in this category?
Incidentally, although there are many possibilities still in superposition, in general I currently weakly suspect that Tiruin is not Mafia and that Leafsnail is.That's super. Your opinion is great ... for me to poop on!
That's super. Your opinion is great ... for me to poop on!Are you drunk again Shakerag?
You want to make it anywhere in this world, kid, you gottaa explain your REASONS for why you feel that way. Otherwise you're just another newbie being fiter for a noose.
The torad to bay12 is pabved with the corpses of newbies who are very smart. And who don't offer reasons.
Incidentally, although there are many possibilities still in superposition, in general I currently weakly suspect that Tiruin is not Mafia and that Leafsnail is.Fun thing with metaknowledge, you have tells by very subtle stuffs :P But yes.
Are you drunk again Shakerag?I'm drunk 19 out of 20 days, man. Alcoholism is a hell of a thing.
Also notes for Shakerag; he sounds mean but he's a nice softie.You're ruining my persona T_T
Did this only happen when I publicly changed my vote or...something beforehand?Beforehand.
On liars, with a doolally system like this then there's legitimate reasons (regardless of alignment) to tell lies to start with to discourage/encourage the wrong type of interactions, then come clean later when the repellent/bait has done its job.So Starver, this post... it makes you look a) trustworthy and b) unthreatening, nay agreeable, to any townie who happens to be lying about something. But it doesn't really make any claims or get town any further. It's dialogue, but not really about the game. You certainly aren't analysing anyone's behaviour.
...
For my own part, I intend to always speak truth (to whatever degree I feel I can), but a) circumstances may make me drop that idealistic position
So if someone wants to say "sorry, I was lying" at some point, or let themselves be caught in a lie, then on their own head be it. Justify it or be damned, but sometimes it is necessary, to promote either Town or Scum agendas. The act of the lie isn't a problem, so much as the details of it.
So Starver, this post... it makes you look a) trustworthy and b) unthreatening, nay agreeable, to any townie who happens to be lying about something. But it doesn't really make any claims or get town any further. It's dialogue, but not really about the game. You certainly aren't analysing anyone's behaviour.I've been tying myself up in the setup mechanics (when I've not been tied up in RL) over and above the, frankly GNDN, other conversation. I've seen myself look quiet, and worried about it. Because being quiet gets Townie lynched as frequently as non-Townie (and more so than organised anti-Townies) in RVS phases and similar times of confusion.
So what does it really say? That when someone turns out to be lying, we should decide whether or not to lynch them on the basis of their justification? And that you'll probably tell the truth, but you can't promise to? How bold. At most, you're arguing against "Lynch All Liars".
While you were responding to Leafsnail, it does seem like you were using him as an excuse to look proactive and involved while posting what amounts to a great deal of fluff. This smells bad to me.
Ugh. We have a tie with no lynching?Shakerag, I don't like how you're approaching this. This vote had a lot of probing ahead of time and is ultimately accompanied by a justification that washes your hands of responsibility for it. Do you think MS is scum?
Maximum Spin for the tie-breaker.
No more than I think anyone else is scum. I just don't want a no lynch. I've pretty much stated already that I'm dialing it in on D1 because I want to see what happens N1.Ugh. We have a tie with no lynching?Shakerag, I don't like how you're approaching this. This vote had a lot of probing ahead of time and is ultimately accompanied by a justification that washes your hands of responsibility for it. Do you think MS is scum?
Maximum Spin for the tie-breaker.
Ugh. We have a tie with no lynching?We still have 1 day :P It is the 25th, 11pm here.
Maximum Spin for the tie-breaker.
PFP. I do not forgive lies, so consider this a warning. Tolerating lies gives mafia an angle to escape when they are caught. Tiruin's 'on your head be it' line makes sense, if you are pulling some stupid gambit you better not be caught.Lying wherenow? I don't read him mentioning anything there ._.;
Maximum Spin is engaging in all the classic mistaken behaviours typical of new players - responding angrily to every vote against them, softclaiming their role in order to make an appeal to emotion and advocating for no lynch. This actually makes me think they're more likely town, because as a mafia player one of MS's teammates would probably have stepped in by now and told them to cool it. I also know MS isn't lying. Unvote.
Err, this comes off to me as pointy, but there's also a lot of roles in context that I don't get at all.So Starver, this post... it makes you look a) trustworthy and b) unthreatening, nay agreeable, to any townie who happens to be lying about something. But it doesn't really make any claims or get town any further. It's dialogue, but not really about the game. You certainly aren't analysing anyone's behaviour.I've been tying myself up in the setup mechanics (when I've not been tied up in RL) over and above the, frankly GNDN, other conversation. I've seen myself look quiet, and worried about it. Because being quiet gets Townie lynched as frequently as non-Townie (and more so than organised anti-Townies) in RVS phases and similar times of confusion.
So what does it really say? That when someone turns out to be lying, we should decide whether or not to lynch them on the basis of their justification? And that you'll probably tell the truth, but you can't promise to? How bold. At most, you're arguing against "Lynch All Liars".
While you were responding to Leafsnail, it does seem like you were using him as an excuse to look proactive and involved while posting what amounts to a great deal of fluff. This smells bad to me.
So, yes, I have indeed made a point to reply to every direct or blanket question I've seen (have I missed any?), to not be 'seen to be invisible', as is good practice for everyone, knowing that I still have time to go through the (other fluffy) words of actual 'gameplay' already said and attempt to build what passes for a more specific cogent argument from there.
If I were never suspected of subterfuge at all, then either my hypothetical mast plan has succeeded beyond all dreams (absence of suspicion is a key indicator of various things) or you lot are frankly unimaginative. Neither is the case, so far as I can tell. I don't care about whiffing slightly moldy. I probably get to prove I don't stink later, and Witch-Smellers General also have to justify themselves at this stage of the game, unless there's an actual DayCop skill (day0-covering Actions currently restricted to Frame and Delay, SFAICT).
So say your platitudes (or otherwise), and let me say mine and then judge fluff vs fluff as you want, because it probably all is fluff anyway, for all practical purposes, as any fule noe.
If we're being honest with ourselves, we can see that we fairly often just lynch some newbie on D1 because they don't understand the meta, it's more often than not a mislynch, and the real game (and scumhunting) starts D2. Call me cynical if you want, but that's how I see things and that's how I'm going to direct my playstyle.For me, it's less metaknowledge, and more that they have a point themselves too (although set to their template of 'how can you be sure' safety as "lynching a Townie", and something connected to 'my vote = suspect', which makes sense for King Awesome, which sounds more like safety than any scumtell because...there's always any follow up to follow up any suspicion assumed 'just because someone voted'.) Like for example, Leafsnail's reasoning resonates something I and others believe too (D1 lynch = better than no lynch), and acts as a reasoning behind the vote; it's that follow up that makes the vote...rather than literally taking RVS as RVS :P
Maximum Spin is engaging in all the classic mistaken behaviours typical of new players - responding angrily to every vote against them, softclaiming their role in order to make an appeal to emotion and advocating for no lynch.Odd that you see anger. Did you miss my first post?
And as I assume BST is BRITISH TIME WHICH MEANS GMT +0 (hmpf), that means day end is...9 hours away.I think it's 12 noon. A perfectly healthy time for NQT to be awake, though some I know would disagree.
Why're you awake at midnight NQT O_o
The day ends at midnight, exactly 72 hours after the day began. The expectation with the day lengths is that someone is hammered before then.And as I assume BST is BRITISH TIME WHICH MEANS GMT +0 (hmpf), that means day end is...9 hours away.I think it's 12 noon. A perfectly healthy time for NQT to be awake, though some I know would disagree.
Why're you awake at midnight NQT O_o
Oh, okay.Don't do this, you should provide your reasoning. You also have the option to vote Shakerag to break the tie - why not him?
Ugh. I don't like it, but I'm tempted to leave a vote on Max to prevent a nolynch tie
Incidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.Nah.
His play is odd, but a lot of it is from adjusting to forum mafia meta. He does back up what he says with reasoning. Sometimes it feels a bit defensive, but I can't get behind lynching him with the info we have so far.If my play is odd, it's because my play is odd. It isn't likely to become less odd.
FoU, are y'all going to follow up your votes?Well, I have no reason to change my vote. Especially because two things.
Incidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.
NJW2000: here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7599776#msg7599776) you advocate lynching no-lynchers. What do you think about this now? You note that you don't think anyone in the no-lynch discussion seems especially scummy, so why do you still want to vote for them?1) I don't want a no-lynch. I've read a fair bit of reasoning on this, on bay12 and other mafia sites, and it seems like a nolynch d1 is a bad plan except in special circumstances, even if its practically at random. We have 13-2 (Me and codybob, neither of whom I want to lynch, because it doesn't help town) =11 players, likely 3+ of these anti-town. Statistically, I think even a random lynch would be to Town's advantage in that situation. Also, nolynches mean less information for town, as I see it. So that's why I don't want a nolynch.
My reasoning was that there were a couple of nolynch votes ( or maybe someone transferred, there hadn't been a votecount recently) and if I voted Max, it would take two people, not one, to make a Nolynch/Max tie.Oh, okay.Don't do this, you should provide your reasoning. You also have the option to vote Shakerag to break the tie - why not him?
Ugh. I don't like it, but I'm tempted to leave a vote on Max to prevent a nolynch tie
Did something NJW saw affront you?No, and words are words anyway. Just the courtesy of a reply, when I had time to spare to do so. I could suggest you sound needled about something. (But I now recall this is what you're like anyway, which I know you won't thank me for saying... ;))
Maximum Spin is engaging in all the classic mistaken behaviours typical of new players - responding angrily to every vote against them, softclaiming their role in order to make an appeal to emotion and advocating for no lynch.Odd that you see anger. Did you miss my first post?
Words not to convince, though conviction may come later. Words to evince. Shakerag. This is not in response to your vote against me.
Incidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.
I'm not advocating anything. I don't advocate things. If I ever appear to be advocating something, there's probably a reason for that, but the reason is probably not that I'm actually advocating something.So... you don't advocate hunting scum?
I'm a little uneasy about Shakerag and his vote for Maximum Spin to avoid a tie, but Maximum Spin isn't making me feel to good about him, either.Well, so far, from my perspective, Mr. Spin has proved scummiest of all of us, and a lynch on him would be much better than the dreaded day one no lynch.
Some jerk dicked with my role, and Leafsnail's the same old grump.Let me guess, your role was the ability switch one?
So... you don't advocate hunting scum?Nope! You can do that if you want, and I can certainly imagine situations in which it would be a good idea, but I'd never tell you to do it.
So... you don't advocate hunting scum?Nope! You can do that if you want, and I can certainly imagine situations in which it would be a good idea, but I'd never tell you to do it.
Nope, that's the one I ended up with. My previous role is the reason you got that role though.Some jerk dicked with my role, and Leafsnail's the same old grump.Let me guess, your role was the ability switch one?
It wasn't me who did that to you. For some reason I don't know at all, my role got completely replaced today(my guess it was switched with someone else). I have my suspicions for who did it, but for the moment...
Well, I ended up getting the ability to swap an ability with someone. I swapped with Shakerag.
So I can verify that he was telling the truth about his Santa shower. I'm doing to do the thing he was going to do tonight, though perhaps with a different target.
Is there time to know more about Shak's HilarityPower? Can I trust FoU's NonLethalPower?Well, now somebody else has my NonLethalPower and I have Shakerag's HilarityPower. Blame powerswap.
My vote stays.So... you don't advocate hunting scum?Nope! You can do that if you want, and I can certainly imagine situations in which it would be a good idea, but I'd never tell you to do it.
And if there was another non-mod vote upon Cody I'd happily prevent a thrown-firework effect by making it definite, but I suspect too late now.I can confidently state that a thrown-firework effect has happened and may be the reason this swap power is now being passed around like a lewd simile.
Doesn't appear to have been CB's thrown firework that did that, then. Inform/Census may have been made, but not Swap/Gift.And if there was another non-mod vote upon Cody I'd happily prevent a thrown-firework effect by making it definite, but I suspect too late now.I can confidently state that a thrown-firework effect has happened and may be the reason this swap power is now being passed around like a lewd simile.
Doesn't appear to have been CB's thrown firework that did that, then. Inform/Census may have been made, but not Swap/Gift.I wish to clarify: CB had the swap action, and then stopped having it because of swapping it with another one. I can confirm this was the case because I swapped it onto him, having received it apparently from Leafsnail, who swapped away my previous "cure target" ability that I actually really did have. Yes, swapping the swap power onto the guy who automatically uses powers was perhaps not the most impressive idea. I hadn't totally considered that he could use it immediately after I swapped it onto him instead of the next day (by which time he would be dead). So uh. Sorry.
Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.
Anyway... kingawsume.
Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.I also would like a clearer explanation of this.
If I getting scumbaited, Armok help me. It seems logical, but at the same time, I could be falling right into a scum gambit/bait.
Edited to correct formatting.
I could, but I don't know if he could, so I can't say whether we both could. However, I think the reason for his vote is that Leafsnail had voted for Shakerag, and possibly also that Leafsnail had vouched for me after Shakerag voted for me, and now Leafsnail is dead.So... how about you do explain why you voted? By which I don't mean, "how would you feel about explaining why you voted?", I mean, "please explain why you voted for kingawesume just then".
I could, but I don't know if he could, so I can't say whether we both could. However, I think the reason for his vote is that Leafsnail had voted for Shakerag, and possibly also that Leafsnail had vouched for me after Shakerag voted for me, and now Leafsnail is dead.You're town too :V
NQT: We would prefer to know the order of action resolution in public tanks :3
Both a combination of a gut tell and scumbait/tell. If Shakerag IS scum, the scum were covering for Shaker, and setting up Maximum for a fall, as he was already considered a sus. But, if Shake isn't scum, then they are leading me by the rope.Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.Anyway... kingawsume.
Could you both explain why you're voting?
We've one floating topic unapproached--the people who voted Max.S. That somehow isn't being a topic by some people as an opportunity.Both a combination of a gut tell and scumbait/tell. If Shakerag IS scum, the scum were covering for Shaker, and setting up Maximum for a fall, as he was already considered a sus. But, if Shake isn't scum, then they are leading me by the rope.Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.Anyway... kingawsume.
Could you both explain why you're voting?
Shakerag isn't leading if he isn't scum. The scum could easily set up max s. because Leaf backs Max up by voting for Shake, and dies next night. I'm not saying Shake is scum, but there is a possibility.We've one floating topic unapproached--the people who voted Max.S. That somehow isn't being a topic by some people as an opportunity.Both a combination of a gut tell and scumbait/tell. If Shakerag IS scum, the scum were covering for Shaker, and setting up Maximum for a fall, as he was already considered a sus. But, if Shake isn't scum, then they are leading me by the rope.Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.Anyway... kingawsume.
Could you both explain why you're voting?
I am curious however how you reason out Shake as scum there. o_O Like, from where and what posts? HOW are people covering for Shakerag? How are people setting up Maximum Spin? (and why? That contradicts your earlier post where you metaphorically related yourself to a fool because 'it'll draw suspicion' [that and I just dislike people calling others 'fool' -.- so it has emotional impact on me])
How is Shakerag even leading you by the rope when all his posts are "NIGHT GIFT POKES :3"
Is it connected to something that happened yesterday before day end where people started vaguely posting about whatever thing happened?
Shakerag: Yo bro, what you do @_@Man, I didn't do shit. My gift ability got ganked before the day ended, leaving me with no night action. I am disappoint.
Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.And this is why in the beginner's games we try to press the importance of not analyzing who got killed during the night. It's total WIFOM. Because saying I'm scum and killed Leafsnail for voting me (which is something I would almost never do as scum anyway) is just as plausible as saying that whoever is scum killed Leafsnail to make it look like I went after him for voting me. In truth, my guess would be one of:
If I getting scumbaited, Armok help me. It seems logical, but at the same time, I could be falling right into a scum gambit/bait.
Edited to correct formatting.
Tiruin:Hum @_@ Someone targeted me then . . .and it ain't you?Shakerag: Yo bro, what you do @_@Man, I didn't do shit. My gift ability got ganked before the day ended, leaving me with no night action. I am disappoint.
Those of you who didn't have a vote on at end of D1 (less NJW2000): So why weren't you voting? Why did you let a tie stand? If there's one topic that's been hashed and rehashed on this board it's don't fucking "no lynch" on D1.I was asleep :P
I need to unpack your explanation a little, Max, as it seems to me that Gifting has been heavily at play, on top of any Gifting, given all confirmed people have two available Actions and I don't yet know enough to be even half sure of anything, though I am just about half sure of something else, rounded down, for all the good it does me.Wha-choo talkin' about bro'? @_@
(PPE: Double ninja by Tir, doesn't seem to affect anything of the above, though.)
Also TDS is Town :V just so y'all know.So this happened. If Tiruin flips town at any point, I think this basically confirms TDS, unless the generator can throw out complex deceptive roles.
Well, I ended up getting the ability to swap an ability with someone. I swapped with Shakerag.So I did the Santa Shower thing. It looks like it worked out, from my end at least. I gained a new ability.
So I can verify that he was telling the truth about his Santa shower. I'm doing to do the thing he was going to do tonight, though perhaps with a different target.
So this happened. If Tiruin flips town at any point, I think this basically confirms TDS, unless the generator can throw out complex deceptive roles.Inspection falsifying abilities are a thing(blame me, I made the suggestion to NQT). Still, though, if Tiruin does flip town, the odds of TDS being town will be much greater in my estimation, because(I think, anyway) the odds of an investigation jamming ability hitting the TDS investigation are less than the odds of one not hitting the TDS investigation.
Speaking of night stuff, anyone get any information from me?Nope.
Incidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.I'm going to open with a vote on Maximum Spin based off earlier behavior, but I'm going to look for other targets as 1, this could just be newness, and 2, I don't think there's only going to be one mafioso.
Man, I didn't do shit. My gift ability got ganked before the day ended, leaving me with no night action. I am disappoint.Take the Santa Shower back if you like. I would love the chance to swap with someone else.
A Swap action should (by the logic I ascribe to the basic words, though I welcome corrections on that) leave Player A with Action B and Player B with Action A (or a more convoluted variation, but ultimately conserving the total actions at one per Player).I need to unpack your explanation a little, Max, as it seems to me that Gifting has been heavily at play, on top of any Gifting, given all confirmed people have two available Actions and I don't yet know enough to be even half sure of anything, though I am just about half sure of something else, rounded down, for all the good it does me.Wha-choo talkin' about bro'? @_@
(PPE: Double ninja by Tir, doesn't seem to affect anything of the above, though.)
There's the whole Action: Frame subset of possibilities. 1/14th chance of three different varieties of weird, two of which could false-paint people as good, and then another 1/14th of Action: Redirect under the control of a fellow Scum, perhaps.Also TDS is Town :V just so y'all know.So this happened. If Tiruin flips town at any point, I think this basically confirms TDS, unless the generator can throw out complex deceptive roles.
Cheese buckets :I I knew Leafsnail was town.[/complimentarycompliment]
yo dudes, why're y'all voting Kingawsume and Shakerag :V
Shakerag: Yo bro, what you do @_@
Also TDS is Town :V just so y'all know.
No I'm not claiming anything. But I have PMs telling me THINGS O____O [/notthatmymentionofLeafsnailwaspartofit]
SO there's been a blackout and I've MANY THINGS due in the next two days (one is my Chapter 1 portion of research tomorrow and two is BOARD EXAM on Sunday/Monday) so I may be inactive for bits. I shall be posting though! D:<
But seriously why're y'all voting for those peeps.I could, but I don't know if he could, so I can't say whether we both could. However, I think the reason for his vote is that Leafsnail had voted for Shakerag, and possibly also that Leafsnail had vouched for me after Shakerag voted for me, and now Leafsnail is dead.You're town too :V
So fish.
But seriously. Why're you speaking for someone else who you have no idea about rather than your perspective of view?
THAT LEAVES THE REST OF YOU! O____O
FallacyofUrist: What did YOU do last nightobligatory: where were you on the night of the 26th in which we all took a hearty night's dinner together and you help up a BUTTER KNIFE to cut CHEESE?!@_@
Also people confirmed actions IN THE DAY DURING D1. I would like them to talk about it.
I could, but I don't know if he could, so I can't say whether we both could. However, I think the reason for his vote is that Leafsnail had voted for Shakerag, and possibly also that Leafsnail had vouched for me after Shakerag voted for me, and now Leafsnail is dead.
I have gained some information and I believe this game might be breakable, particularly if anyone has any relevant day actions. I will detail my thoughts on this llater
Tiruin, you just voted twice. Anything you want to tell us?Votecount says she only has a single vote.
My night action didn't do anything.(Blaming Tiruin for that)Why are you blaming Tiruin for that?
I need to unpack your explanation a little, Max, as it seems to me that Gifting has been heavily at play, on top of any swapping, given all confirmed people have two available Actions and I don't yet know enough to be even half sure of anything, though I am just about half sure of something else, rounded down, for all the good it does me.I can confirm that I don't have two available actions, which is a little disappointing. However let's just say that I could be somewhat useful tonight if I live through the day! If anybody mass-gifted an action, it was targetted in such a way as to (however it happens to work) exclude me. If it's "give to everyone except your target's target", as has been implied, I would guess that it was targetted at codybob1999, since I can confirm that last night I was informed of myself. :P (implying he randomly targetted me with the inform your target of your target action)
If scum wanted Leafsnail dead for any reason beyond he just seems town, it was probably for this:See, this is an example of the importance of reading comprehension! I didn't say a word about why scum would want Leafsnail dead – I just gave my interpretation of kingawsume's rather terse explanation of his own vote.
[...]
Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.
I can confirm that I don't have two available actions, which is a little disappointing.Ah, so you targeted me. What were you trying to do to me?
But this suggests that the gifter targeted me.I targeted BlackHeartKabal. I intend to target a different person each night to reduce the chance of someone predicting my action and taking advantage of that.
As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night.If you targeted nobody, you should have gained an action from my Santa Party. If you targeted somebody other than me(probably), you should have gained an action.
juicebox Blame me for what? I didn't touch you at all.I could, but I don't know if he could, so I can't say whether we both could. However, I think the reason for his vote is that Leafsnail had voted for Shakerag, and possibly also that Leafsnail had vouched for me after Shakerag voted for me, and now Leafsnail is dead.
If scum wanted Leafsnail dead for any reason beyond he just seems town, it was probably for this:I have gained some information and I believe this game might be breakable, particularly if anyone has any relevant day actions. I will detail my thoughts on this llater
My night action didn't do anything.(Blaming Tiruin for that)
Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.
@shakerag I intended to vote, however I fell asleep and didn't wake up until after the round was over
(sorry didn't read Tiruin's post first)PFP BECAUSE I'M GRUMPY AND ANY POSTS MADE BETWEEN NOW AND MY PREVIOUS ONE IS ME BEING GRUMPY BEGAUZE SLEEP AAURGH
Tiruin, feel free to target me, I've had swap like twice now.
FofU: Well, the good news is I'm reasonably confident you're not mafia now, because you'd have to be really stupid to stake your reputation on calling me mafia like that knowing I'd turn out to be town when the day ended.Yeah, if you flip town, we know he's not mafia because they wouldn't do something so obviously scummy -- hey wait... WIFOM.
Yeah, that sounds about right. If Maximum Spin didn't target anyone then he should have gotten an action. If you targeted BHK like you said, then anyone else who targeted someone who targeted BHK had a chance of not getting an ability. So, for example, if Leafsnail also targeted BHK last night and Maximum Spin killed Leafsnail, then he would have a 50/50 chance of not getting an ability (assuming no one else targeted BHK).As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night.If you targeted nobody, you should have gained an action from my Santa Party. If you targeted somebody other than me(probably), you should have gained an action.
You are lying mafia.
I have an ace in the hole here. Santa Party was originally Shakerag's action. He knows what it says. Meaning he can confirm my statement.
Shakerag: Please read the above.
If anybody mass-gifted an action, it was targetted in such a way as to (however it happens to work) exclude me.
FofU: Well, the good news is I'm reasonably confident you're not mafia now, because you'd have to be really stupid to stake your reputation on calling me mafia like that knowing I'd turn out to be town when the day ended.I'm glad you don't think I'm mafia, but my preference would be for you to respond to my argument. If you're not scum, what makes my argument wrong?
I only have one action.You ninjad me. Please elaborate.
Where exactly is "actions made + new abilities gained = exactly 1", per person, specified? That seems to be an assumption, and one I can't personally attest to.Can y'all gather all this shufflin' stuff? Other than what I read D1 and all :V
Noting that there are by now likely multiple instances of various Action Types (possibly even most of them, potentially all of them), after whatever D1 and N2 shuffling and duplicating has happened.
Once per day you can swap this ability with an ability belonging to your target. Action: Swap
I definitely established that I had used the swap power during the day when I swapped with cb'99. By the way, there's also a role-morphing passive lurking around out there, which would definitely add to the ability shuffling problem.Oh before I forget, yeah that was my original role. Anyone who targeted me overrode a random person's ability with their role. That passive then got swapped away from me in what I can only assume (given nobody mentioned it before) was the first swap of the game and I have no idea where it went.
Oh before I forget, yeah that was my original role. Anyone who targeted me overrode a random person's ability with their role. That passive then got swapped away from me in what I can only assume (given nobody mentioned it before) was the first swap of the game and I have no idea where it went.Interesting. Who did you swap with next?
...
- Tiruin
- TheDarkStar
- Fallacy of Urist
- NJW2000
- Starver
- Maximum Spin
- Shakerag
- 4maskwolf
- kingawsume
- BlackHeartKabal
- juiceboxDay 1
Nope no day action [Night instead]
??? (I say he didn't act N1 because I tracked him and Leafsnail)
??? (Sounds clueless and votes Max S because 'lying' (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603208#msg7603208))
??? (Probably not him given the clueless tone like me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603250#msg7603250))
Max.S' dayswap (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603456#msg7603456)
Has Night action instead
See: Max S.
???
???
???
This is what I know: Leafsnail almost certainly swapped the swap action onto me, since the Cure action he died with is probably the one I had. I really did have it, by the way. Where he got it from, I couldn't say. I passed it to cb'99; where it went from there... I have suspicions about. But nothing concrete.He got swapped is what is. Gift is a night action judging from what I read, and he
Could you use the table properly? Ten/eleven TRs with two TDs in each wouldn't look like an attempt to obfuscate by uneven sizing (due to emoticon line-height being other than quote embeded text lineheight), and I'd be sure what you were linking against my name.Quote
...
- Tiruin
- TheDarkStar
- Fallacy of Urist
- NJW2000
- Starver
- Maximum Spin
- Shakerag
- 4maskwolf
- kingawsume
- BlackHeartKabal
- juiceboxDay 1
Nope no day action [Night instead]
??? (I say he didn't act N1 because I tracked him and Leafsnail)
??? (Sounds clueless and votes Max S because 'lying' (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603208#msg7603208))
??? (Probably not him given the clueless tone like me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603250#msg7603250))
Max.S' dayswap (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603456#msg7603456)
Has Night action instead
See: Max S.
???
???
???
Ho hum, looks like the QUIET PEOPLE who aren't posting much COULD BE THE CULPRIT or we've got overt scum acting in the day.
Could you use the table properly? Ten/eleven TRs with two TDs in each wouldn't look like an attempt to obfuscate by uneven sizing (due to emoticon line-height being other than quote embeded text lineheight), and I'd be sure what you were linking against my name.Hum, either pointy scum or really pointy townie[/hmm]
For the record, I don't appear to have suffered a Swap, D1 certainly not, but you'll have to wait about five hours before I'm finished with some offline stuff before I can work out the useful 'info' I saw claimed from someone else.People claimed stuff. Much stuff already in public.
I only have one action.Hold up, this isn't a semantic dispute about "action" vs "ability", where you were gifted an ability, or started with one, and ended up with one passive as well, or something? And you didn't target anyone, neither you nor FoU are lying, and this is a massive pointless misunderstanding?
Tiruin, you just voted twice. Anything you want to tell us?Votecount says she only has a single vote.My night action didn't do anything.(Blaming Tiruin for that)Why are you blaming Tiruin for that?
Took line per line, but unequal. (Also shortened ??? to?? to avoid emoji.) I really need to follow the links to see where you might have omitted the second-column item for which first-column one, and thus where to shuffle them properly to.Quote
... Day 1 - Tiruin Nope no day action [Night instead] - TheDarkStar ?? (I say he didn't act N1 because I tracked him and Leafsnail) - Fallacy of Urist ?? (Sounds clueless and votes Max S because 'lying' (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603208#msg7603208)) - NJW2000 ?? (Probably not him given the clueless tone like me (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603250#msg7603250)) - Starver Max.S' dayswap (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7603456#msg7603456) - Maximum Spin Has Night action instead - Shakerag See: Max S. - 4maskwolf ?? - kingawsume ?? - BlackHeartKabal ?? - juicebox
As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night. Either you misread your ability description, or, more likely, you are lying and mafia.Maximum Spin
No night-usable action during the night, eh?I ended up with a night-usable action at the end of the night - something about brainwashing people into performing a random action? - but I was told it was too late to use it because the night was over. Then I immediately lost it, now I know why.
Everyone: Was anyone able to "target two targets" last night?Nope, one target. Iirc, I targeted MaximumSpin.
Everyone: Was anyone able to "target two targets" last night?Not me.
I'm so lost on the thing with Max, Shakerag, abilities, etc. No matter how many times I read it, I can't grasp it.Well here's how it goes.
If anybody mass-gifted an action, it was targetted in such a way as to (however it happens to work) exclude me.
As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night.
I ended up with a night-usable action at the end of the night - something about brainwashing people into performing a random action? - but I was told it was too late to use it because the night was over. Then I immediately lost it, now I know why.After we caught Spin in the lie, he claimed to have gained a night action and then have it stolen. Which contradicts what he said earlier about not having gained a night action, unless he meant that the action he mentioned here was swapped to him instead of given to him.
If anybody mass-gifted an action, it was targetted in such a way as to (however it happens to work) exclude me.
I ended up with a night-usable action at the end of the night - something about brainwashing people into performing a random action? - but I was told it was too late to use it because the night was over. Then I immediately lost it, now I know why.
allegedTell that to Shakerag.
I don't know how your alleged mass-gifting action works.See below.
Target a player, give an ability to everyone who isn't targeting [random player targeting my target].
Everyone: Was anyone able to "target two targets" last night?I don't have anything that can target anyone.I used the mass gifting ability on BHK Night 1.I'll confirm *something* changed with me, yes. I guess that means it's you, or you're just capitalizing on someone else's action.
Do we not have any actual lead, that we're going to have to lynch by policy to do something?
Interesting ability you've got, kingawsume.Soory about not posting, as I have benn enjpying my weekend, insofar. I didn't target anyone last night; I couldn't, as my ability relied on someone being dead.
You've never said anything towards the discussion prior, or to other people--merely to how people are in a theme of 'leading you up'. You haven't also mentioned much towards other players when opportunity for discussion presented itself. Could I ask who you targeted last night?
Incidentally, the entire premise of the argument has become invalid because I somehow acquired another action since then.Could you please elaborate? Especially about how it invalidates the argument entirely, because I can't follow that reasoning.
That doesn't say anything. Because I'm reading YOUR ABILITY and it doesn't show that requirement. Anywhere.Interesting ability you've got, kingawsume.Soory about not posting, as I have benn enjpying my weekend, insofar. I didn't target anyone last night; I couldn't, as my ability relied on someone being dead.
You've never said anything towards the discussion prior, or to other people--merely to how people are in a theme of 'leading you up'. You haven't also mentioned much towards other players when opportunity for discussion presented itself. Could I ask who you targeted last night?
Toony Bomb
Once per night you can inform your target of your target. Action: Inform.
Once per night you can receive a list of a third of the role names in play. Action: Census.
Alignment: Town
Could someone PLEASE tally everything that came up thus far? -.- I would but then BOARD EXAMS AND ANXIETY :IIf you read the EWAP, you would have known my ability that I had N1 was swapped.
And seriously. Activity guys.That doesn't say anything. Because I'm reading YOUR ABILITY and it doesn't show that requirement. Anywhere.Interesting ability you've got, kingawsume.Soory about not posting, as I have benn enjpying my weekend, insofar. I didn't target anyone last night; I couldn't, as my ability relied on someone being dead.
You've never said anything towards the discussion prior, or to other people--merely to how people are in a theme of 'leading you up'. You haven't also mentioned much towards other players when opportunity for discussion presented itself. Could I ask who you targeted last night?
This doesn't seem all that different from a regular mafia game to me. Sure there are all sorts of roles and some shenanigans are probably going to ensue from that but I think regular scumhunting methods and scumtells should suffice.A while ago you said this, Juicebox. I'm a little confused: does "putting pressure on more than one player" count as "regular scumhunting methods"? Because you seem to be focusing on Max and the Shenanigans.
Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.Applying this logic to Max is certainly tempting (I admit I have a bit), but this is a very noncommital way of lynching someone, eh? You don't even have to say why you thought they were scum. Especially with the "This is Shakes' idea" bit. And how it gets you off scumhunting until we lynch Max...
@shakerag I intended to vote, however I fell asleep and didn't wake up until after the round was over
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c5/1e/9d/c51e9ddb7f0e9f363c47e0cf6ea9be26.jpg)Totally unrelated to the game, but that's hilarious because I just gave up amphetamines last month.
Can i be used as a replacement? Thanks.
Welcome Moony, and fare thee well TDS!And an amen to that!
(So far, this is the only swap in this game that I can say I fully understand!)
This doesn't seem all that different from a regular mafia game to me. Sure there are all sorts of roles and some shenanigans are probably going to ensue from that but I think regular scumhunting methods and scumtells should suffice.A while ago you said this, Juicebox. I'm a little confused: does "putting pressure on more than one player" count as "regular scumhunting methods"? Because you seem to be focusing on Max and the Shenanigans.
Also:Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.Applying this logic to Max is certainly tempting (I admit I have a bit), but this is a very noncommital way of lynching someone, eh? You don't even have to say why you thought they were scum. Especially with the "This is Shakes' idea" bit. And how it gets you off scumhunting until we lynch Max...
@shakerag I intended to vote, however I fell asleep and didn't wake up until after the round was over
There is a slight problem with focusing on one person only, yes. There are three scum in the game, after all, and everyone looking at the most suspiscious person doesn't get us very far. Even if Max flips scum, an overwhelming focus on him will have netted us 3+ town deaths and 1 scum in return for fairly little information. 8v3 to 6v2 isn't a giant improvement without extra information.This doesn't seem all that different from a regular mafia game to me. Sure there are all sorts of roles and some shenanigans are probably going to ensue from that but I think regular scumhunting methods and scumtells should suffice.A while ago you said this, Juicebox. I'm a little confused: does "putting pressure on more than one player" count as "regular scumhunting methods"? Because you seem to be focusing on Max and the Shenanigans.
Is there a problem with focusing on just one person? Especially one involved with so many shenenigans?
See, the thing is, now when I flip town and it becomes clear that everything I've said (including the claim of having started with a cure action) has been true and straightforward, I'm going to suggest people look long and hard at the votes that have been placed for me and the people I've said are suspicious. I'd recommend that, on the off chance any of you are actually town and horribly gullible, you should consider changing your vote so you don't end up making things worse for your own side.Now it just sounds like covering your ass.
Oh, I already knew you were mafia, of course, MTH.I'm pretty sure I'm not.
See, the thing is, now when I flip town and it becomes clear that everything I've said (including the claim of having started with a cure action) has been true and straightforward, I'm going to suggest people look long and hard at the votes that have been placed for me and the people I've said are suspicious. I'd recommend that, on the off chance any of you are actually town and horribly gullible, you should consider changing your vote so you don't end up making things worse for your own side.On chance. Four people voting you... I 'd be very surprised if none were town, in a thirst player game.
Put me on the replacement list for this one.Consider it done.
Maximum Spin, I honestly dont know whats going on, but who cares. Hopping on the bandwagon. Maybe i'll figure it out tomorrow.MoonyTheHuman, what the hell are you doing?
Maximum Spin. I want to believe he's not scum, but the mob mentailty is getting to me; the points other make are rather... pointy.Why the purple bit?
"On the off chance" was sarcasm, I'm pretty sure two of them are.At the very least, two of them are voting you for poor or no reasons.
The amount of evidence and suspicious acting stacked up against Maximum is starting to outweigh the chance that he is town.Maximum Spin. I want to believe he's not scum, but the mob mentailty is getting to me; the points other make are rather... pointy.Why the purple bit?
~~~"On the off chance" was sarcasm, I'm pretty sure two of them are.At the very least, two of them are voting you for poor or no reasons.
MoonyTheHuman, kingawsume: Could you elaborate on your reasons for voting, please?
The amount of evidence and suspicious acting stacked up against Maximum is starting to outweigh the chance that he is town.Would you mind detailing this "evidence"?
Oh boy, would I.The amount of evidence and suspicious acting stacked up against Maximum is starting to outweigh the chance that he is town.Would you mind detailing this "evidence"?
First a simple lie. No harm, no foul, right? But you also vote Shake, and provide no evidence.Maximum Spin is engaging in all the classic mistaken behaviours typical of new players - responding angrily to every vote against them, softclaiming their role in order to make an appeal to emotion and advocating for no lynch.Odd that you see anger. Did you miss my first post?
Words not to convince, though conviction may come later. Words to evince. Shakerag. This is not in response to your vote against me.
Incidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.
There is still time for all to fall upon another. CB1999 could be dangerous tonight. Or someone else.But then you accuse a (retrospectively very) AFK player of... sus? With leaving said accusation wide open for interpretation, and also leaving a general "anyone could also be sus." And again, fail to provide evidence.
Fast forward to day 2, you accuse me, and, again, leave it wide open for interpretation, and a distinct lack of evidence. I don't really care right now, however; let the others decide that.Doesn't appear to have been CB's thrown firework that did that, then. Inform/Census may have been made, but not Swap/Gift.I wish to clarify: CB had the swap action, and then stopped having it because of swapping it with another one. I can confirm this was the case because I swapped it onto him, having received it apparently from Leafsnail, who swapped away my previous "cure target" ability that I actually really did have. Yes, swapping the swap power onto the guy who automatically uses powers was perhaps not the most impressive idea. I hadn't totally considered that he could use it immediately after I swapped it onto him instead of the next day (by which time he would be dead). So uh. Sorry.
Anyway... kingawsume.
I can confirm that I don't have two available actions, which is a little disappointing.Ah, so you targeted me. What were you trying to do to me?But this suggests that the gifter targeted me.I targeted BlackHeartKabal. I intend to target a different person each night to reduce the chance of someone predicting my action and taking advantage of that.
~~~
People who target me during the night likely won't get gifts. This isn't necessarily the case, but it becomes more likely if I keep who I'm going to target a secret.
[/quoteAs a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night. Either you misread your ability description, or, more likely, you are lying and mafia.]
Following a seemingly random string of vote, you call out FoU, for either "misreading his role" (albeit, a honest mistake at times), or being mafia, citing that you "never had a night-usable action during the night." However, you get called out after it is revealed by FoU that the first line of his action is "Once per night...".
Finally...eh... if people like BHK don't post much, we're going to have to lynch them on principle. Oh well.
MaximumSpin: so why did you vote kingawesume at the start of day 2, then provide no justification for the vote after two people asked you to? More generally, what's with the random unexplained votes on people?
I mean, given that the two of you were in agreement with the nolynch being a possibility, I certainly didn't expect the vote. To be honest, it seems a bit like you had a narrow escape (for which I apologise again, everyone) and panicked, attacking the weakest looking player.
You said that you were "still suspiscious" of kingawesume. You know if you die today, which you probably will, it could be useful to town to know what you found suspiscious. Because possibly nobody else noticed it.Tiruin's analysis of my motives was adequate for this purpose. I can assure you that I never vote randomly. Or from panic, although I will vote to make a tie if I'm in the majority and the opportunity arises, of course. Self-preservationg being what it is.Somebody calls you out for not providing evidence of my appearant guilt, and voting in a manner not dissimilar to the spread pattern of a 12 gauge buckshot; you respond with a vague "I don't lynch randomly" and say you will vote "out of self-preservation" and base your vote on me and a "naïve sucker act" (alebit, such is warrented) and, yet again, refuse to do some honest to goodnes work and prove your claims.
If I went into detail about the need for that vote, it would change the equilibrium and I'd then have to re-account for that when considering the data. It's safe to say that I was skeptical of his "oh well I might just be a total naïf getting suckered" act.
That enough for you?
Looks like he's being a completely clueless newbie to me, cap'n. Why is your pressure just limited to a vote and a vague question?Maximum Spin, I honestly dont know whats going on, but who cares. Hopping on the bandwagon. Maybe i'll figure it out tomorrow.MoonyTheHuman, what the hell are you doing?
uh if voting for someone without evidence is a sign of mafia participation then you should look in the mirror broIncidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.First a simple lie. No harm, no foul, right? But you also vote Shake, and provide no evidence.
Oh, dude, you completely missed the point. CB1999 could be dangerous — and was dangerous — because his abilities were going to autofire. Which happened to turn out to cause major confusion by setting off this swap parade! Meaning I was right. You basically misinterpreted every other part of the sentence as well (ie, not saying "anyone could be a suspect" but "I'm open to suggestions about who we lynch", for example) but that's really the core thing.There is still time for all to fall upon another. CB1999 could be dangerous tonight. Or someone else.But then you accuse a (retrospectively very) AFK player of... sus? With leaving said accusation wide open for interpretation, and also leaving a general "anyone could also be sus." And again, fail to provide evidence.
Fast forward to day 2, you accuse me, and, again, leave it wide open for interpretation, and a distinct lack of evidence. I don't really care right now, however; let the others decide that.Again, A) not evidence of anything; B) there's always a point.
Following a seemingly random string of vote, you call out FoU, for either "misreading his role" (albeit, a honest mistake at times), or being mafia, citing that you "never had a night-usable action during the night." However, you get called out after it is revealed by FoU that the first line of his action is "Once per night..."."called out" == "FoU misunderstood what I said several times and got tetchy about it". I never had a night-usable action during the night, only after the night. I said "during" explicitly because I got one immediately afterward. And then lost it to him.
That enough for you?Ahem. Naaaaaaaaaaah.
And, let me be clear, when I flip town, you're going to look very Mafia and it's clear that you're just hoping people will think the Mafia wouldn't have been stupid enough to make it so obvious what they were doing; but I can assure you, they are.I think you mean if you flip town.
NQT can we get a holiday extension? My part of the world pretty much has Nov 1 and 2 as REALLY BUSY BUSY TRADITION DAYS.Everyone has one 24 hour extension that they can use, do you want to activate yours?
Are you going to talk with people or vote and rely on others to do it for you?Everyone: Was anyone able to "target two targets" last night?I don't have anything that can target anyone.I used the mass gifting ability on BHK Night 1.I'll confirm *something* changed with me, yes. I guess that means it's you, or you're just capitalizing on someone else's action.
Do we not have any actual lead, that we're going to have to lynch by policy to do something?
Tiruin: Nah man, can confirm kingawsume had an action relying on people being dead immediately after the start of the day. Because I have it now due to swappery.Really :v
EWAP: I no loger have this ability; it was swapped.Meaning it was done D1.
Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap.
- Tiruin - I started with 2-target 1 action ability. Gained a [useless-ish -.-] 2-target 1 action at N1. D2 lost me my TRACKING action which was what I started with, I gained a 'day swap'; used it on kingawsume, found the ability above. Nobody claimed targeting me. The jerk. :I Hmpf.
- TheDarkStar [MoonyTheHuman] -
- Fallacy of Urist -
- NJW2000 -
- Starver -
- Maximum Spin -
- Shakerag -
- 4maskwolf -
- kingawsume -
- BlackHeartKabal - No/Low Info because he only (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7605549#msg7605549) has (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7598302#msg7598302) four (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7601173#msg7601173) posts (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7604016#msg7604016) since he started playing. And no mention towards anyone's interest towards the NIGHT actions or DAY actions or otherwise. Rolecall on that.
- juicebox -
Hammer: 6. Day ends 1st Nov 2.30AM, or ideally at hammer.EXTEND THE DAY, NQT! Not all of us are FREE ON THESE DAYS LEADING TO NOV 1.
See, the thing is, now when I flip town and it becomes clear that everything I've said (including the claim of having started with a cure action) has been true and straightforward, I'm going to suggest people look long and hard at the votes that have been placed for me and the people I've said are suspicious. I'd recommend that, on the off chance any of you are actually town and horribly gullible, you should consider changing your vote so you don't end up making things worse for your own side.Stop doing this. It's a dumb thing when you go 'spiteful because lynch', because RATHER than doing that BEFORE PRESUMEDLY DYING, you can work on working with the people who are alive in finding bloody scum. Rather than go 'YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I'M DEAD D:<', you can go 'I AM ALIVE AND I'LL SHOW Y'ALL D:<'
"On the off chance" was sarcasm, I'm pretty sure two of them are.So are you going to follow up on those voting you or whomever you suspect? You're leaving a vote on juicebox and it does not do much unless more conversation is directed to what you want to be done. Juicebox has a way with his activity in that he's not that active and this has been consistent with him in the past <_<
What the fuck is going on in my absence?You mean 'so many' of two people? Are you going to do anything about it?
Why are there so many votes for Maximum Spin, and why are so many of them "lol just jumping on the bandwagon".
Maximum Spin. I want to believe he's not scum, but the mob mentailty is getting to me; the points other make are rather... pointy.Yeah how convincing are THOSE posts as compared to what other people think about him -_- The mob mentality IS getting to you in that groupthink is pressurizing you to conform to agreement rather than individuality.
Also, the idea that three or four scum would conspire to vote someone out is... Staggering, really.You'd be astounded to how easy games can be won when people don't be active. See: The latest supernatural. :'( (Ok the scumteam was top notch there but still. Activity. Lacking.)
Out of kindness for Tiruin I'll activate mine, since I can't imagine ever having any reason to use it for myself given my usual schedule.Ahaaa .___. I didn't read that bit in the OP. Sorry NQT!
Really :vYes, but
So YOU can confirm it now.
Meaning it was done D1.No. Start of D2. I swapped the swap onto him and got an action that relies on the existence of dead people.
And yet the ability I got by swapping with Kingawsume D2 was this:Which is not the version of the swap I had – I had the dayswap that's going around like the clap. Either he swapped away the dayswap I gave him at some point, or he had two abilities and had two swaps at that point.QuoteTwice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap.
- Tiruin - I started with 2-target 1 action ability. Gained a [useless-ish -.-] 2-target 1 action at N1. D2 lost me my TRACKING action which was what I started with, I gained a 'day swap'; used it on kingawsume, found the ability above. Nobody claimed targeting me. The jerk. :I Hmpf.Can confidently state I never targetted you.
- Maximum Spin -Started with a Cure which was probably identical with the one Leafsnail died with. Ended up with various swaps – my going theory is that Leafsnail started with it or acquired it soon before – and briefly had a neat passive that is probably why there must currently be multiple people with the Role Anti Urist. And any of those people should be able to confirm the abilities I had at various times. Or, in some cases, throw up smoke. But that would surely be unwise when I can contradict them.
@MAx.S:I think you're misunderstanding the intent here. The goal is not to be spiteful – I am incapable of feeling spite – but - just as you said you thought my goal was several posts ago, really. At the same time, though, I don't really care if I get lynched as long as I can generate enough data in the process for people to pick over successfully. It's important not to read too much into any of my accusations in the process, though. Accusations are a tool to generate data. That data is what you must analyse. For example. If I should be lynched, I will be proven as town. When I flip town, what would that lead you to think of kingawsume? Mafia, or gullible? The question is not meant to be leading; I'm not looking to be given the answer you think I want; I want your analysis. Don't forget that the Mafia, who know I'm town, gain more from abstaining or making votes that won't be enough to lynch someone else in order to get town to aim at one another. This is an additional data point, again, not a hint as to how you should answer. Don't forget that Mafia could also hope you'll be counting on the previous point.See, the thing is, now when I flip town and it becomes clear that everything I've said (including the claim of having started with a cure action) has been true and straightforward, I'm going to suggest people look long and hard at the votes that have been placed for me and the people I've said are suspicious. I'd recommend that, on the off chance any of you are actually town and horribly gullible, you should consider changing your vote so you don't end up making things worse for your own side.Stop doing this. It's a dumb thing when you go 'spiteful because lynch', because RATHER than doing that BEFORE PRESUMEDLY DYING, you can work on working with the people who are alive in finding bloody scum. Rather than go 'YOU'LL KNOW WHEN I'M DEAD D:<', you can go 'I AM ALIVE AND I'LL SHOW Y'ALL D:<'
What convinces more people rather, is you DOING stuff than arguing against those already against you. You've more audience than what you presume of them.
So are you going to follow up on those voting you or whomever you suspect? You're leaving a vote on juicebox and it does not do much unless more conversation is directed to what you want to be done. Juicebox has a way with his activity in that he's not that active and this has been consistent with him in the past <_<At this point I'd be willing to jump on any non-me bandwagon, except for a few select individuals I'm confident in, because I think there is still more data I can generate, especially tonight. This, and any other vote of mine, is not intended to imply that I want anything in particular "to be done". However, it's true that I do think juicebox is being deliberately glib.
I do concur that it's quite plausible.Also, the idea that three or four scum would conspire to vote someone out is... Staggering, really.You'd be astounded to how easy games can be won when people don't be active. See: The latest supernatural. :'( (Ok the scumteam was top notch there but still. Activity. Lacking.)
KingFallacyofUrist just seems to voting from previous behavior, but hasn't changed his vote since;Maximum Spin. I want to believe he's not scum, but the mob mentailty is getting to me; the points other make are rather... pointy.Yeah how convincing are THOSE posts as compared to what other people think about him -_- The mob mentality IS getting to you in that groupthink is pressurizing you to conform to agreement rather than individuality.
Of all points against him--what do you think about those voting him.
EBWOP: Juice and FoU seem the most suspicious out of the voters (excluding myself to max; he seems to have a hard on for me being sus :/ )I'm one of the two most suspicious, when MoonyTheHuman hasn't given any reasoning for his vote(correct me if I'm wrong)?
Moony's just on the bandwagon.EBWOP: Juice and FoU seem the most suspicious out of the voters (excluding myself to max; he seems to have a hard on for me being sus :/ )I'm one of the two most suspicious, when MoonyTheHuman hasn't given any reasoning for his vote(correct me if I'm wrong)?
Still doesn't change my vote. You are suspicious to me, regardless.Ehm... Havin trouble finding scumtells, but reposting this CLAIM by kingawesume. To have a nightkill or somesuch.
And if the votes don't get you, my recently acquired ability will.
Take that what you will.
I havent because i dont really have one ):EBWOP: Juice and FoU seem the most suspicious out of the voters (excluding myself to max; he seems to have a hard on for me being sus :/ )I'm one of the two most suspicious, when MoonyTheHuman hasn't given any reasoning for his vote(correct me if I'm wrong)?
BlackHeartKabal either needs to replace out or get hung for being a lurking scumass. He's got all of 4 posts and practically no content in any of them.
And on that note, still going to be mostly absent today.This from a guy who's currently sitting on a flagarant bandwagon?
I'm part of the problem, but i agree :PBlackHeartKabal either needs to replace out or get hung for being a lurking scumass. He's got all of 4 posts and practically no content in any of them.And on that note, still going to be mostly absent today.This from a guy who's currently sitting on a flagarant bandwagon?
Goddamn, I was Replacing Out anyway because I can't keep up activity here, but if there's any game that the town would deserve to lose, I'd pick this one.
I havent because i dont really have one ):Alright then. Take some time to read through the thread, then.
I honestly dont know whats going on :P
Cool.True, but it does seem more like newness than scumminess to me. What makes him more scummy than a liar? (Spin still hasn't convinced me he wasn't lying.)
MoonyTheHuman for being worthless and dragging everyone down with him.
Moony's just on the bandwagon.I'm more suspicious(with my reasoning) than no reasoning at all?
if there's any game that the town would deserve to lose, I'd pick this one.We'll see. I certainly haven't given up yet, though. Might take a look back through Day 1 and 2, seeing if anybody is being suspicious in a less obvious way. Maybe conduct some vote analysis on what we have so far(though I don't think that's very likely to bear fruit yet).
Hoo wow. Blame everyone on the basis of a few. -_- "YOU ALL DESERVE TO LOSE THIS".BlackHeartKabal either needs to replace out or get hung for being a lurking scumass. He's got all of 4 posts and practically no content in any of them.And on that note, still going to be mostly absent today.This from a guy who's currently sitting on a flagarant bandwagon?
Goddamn, I was Replacing Out anyway because I can't keep up activity here, but if there's any game that the town would deserve to lose, I'd pick this one.
I'm voting MTH because he's a garbage player. If he's scum, bonus. If he's not scum, then that's one major distraction and wild-card out of the game. The longer he's alive, the more interference with real scumhunting he's going to cause.Cool.True, but it does seem more like newness than scumminess to me. What makes him more scummy than a liar? (Spin still hasn't convinced me he wasn't lying.)
MoonyTheHuman for being worthless and dragging everyone down with him.
I was browsing the dictionary the other day and I happened to see BlackHeartKabal's name under the entry for "Salt". Weird, right?Hoo wow. Blame everyone on the basis of a few. -_- "YOU ALL DESERVE TO LOSE THIS".BlackHeartKabal either needs to replace out or get hung for being a lurking scumass. He's got all of 4 posts and practically no content in any of them.And on that note, still going to be mostly absent today.This from a guy who's currently sitting on a flagarant bandwagon?
Goddamn, I was Replacing Out anyway because I can't keep up activity here, but if there's any game that the town would deserve to lose, I'd pick this one.
Heavy spite, I feel, done to myself. Easy to give up just because you're now out of it. That doesn't mean your successor isn't.
Thanks Kingawsume for the summaries. juicebox: Can I get any tangible anything regarding your 'lies on Maximum Spin' and your 'Tiruin something something please.
Maximum Spin is engaging in all the classic mistaken behaviours typical of new players - responding angrily to every vote against them, softclaiming their role in order to make an appeal to emotion and advocating for no lynch.Odd that you see anger. Did you miss my first post?
Words not to convince, though conviction may come later. Words to evince. Shakerag. This is not in response to your vote against me.
Incidentally, I lied about my ability. Sorry. Radical Freedom.
I need to unpack your explanation a little, Max, as it seems to me that Gifting has been heavily at play, on top of any swapping, given all confirmed people have two available Actions and I don't yet know enough to be even half sure of anything, though I am just about half sure of something else, rounded down, for all the good it does me.I can confirm that I don't have two available actions, which is a little disappointing. However let's just say that I could be somewhat useful tonight if I live through the day! If anybody mass-gifted an action, it was targetted in such a way as to (however it happens to work) exclude me. If it's "give to everyone except your target's target", as has been implied, I would guess that it was targetted at codybob1999, since I can confirm that last night I was informed of myself. :P (implying he randomly targetted me with the inform your target of your target action)If scum wanted Leafsnail dead for any reason beyond he just seems town, it was probably for this:See, this is an example of the importance of reading comprehension! I didn't say a word about why scum would want Leafsnail dead – I just gave my interpretation of kingawsume's rather terse explanation of his own vote.
[...]
Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.
Incidentally, my vote stands.
As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night. Either you misread your ability description, or, more likely, you are lying and mafia.
As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night.If you targeted nobody, you should have gained an action from my Santa Party. If you targeted somebody other than me(probably), you should have gained an action.
You are lying mafia.
I have an ace in the hole here. Santa Party was originally Shakerag's action. He knows what it says. Meaning he can confirm my statement.
Shakerag: Please read the above.
As a matter of fact, I targetted nobody, because I never had a night-usable action during that night. Either you misread your ability description, or, more likely, you are lying and mafia.Maximum Spin
Man, how did I not connect the dots here earlier. I think I just wanted to see how much of a hole MS could dig for himself. Late D1, my santa ability was swapped with a swap ability. Right at the beginning of D2 I dayswapped the swap ability with Maximum Spin. You know what I got? An ability that starts with "Once per night you can ...".
No night-usable action during the night, eh?
Everyone: Was anyone able to "target two targets" last night?
Why is there a bandwagon on Maximum Spin followed by a huge backlash?The bandwagon is because of his lies and people then going "why not" and voting him, as for the backlash, I have no clue.
Did the fact that he lied about not getting an action get resolved at all?He said he did actually get an action but had it stolen. This strongly contradicts the fact that he said he didn't get an action earlier.
MoonyTheHuman for being worthless and dragging everyone down with him.I'm considering the possibility of Shakerag being scum using Moony's incompetence as an excuse to avoid voting his partner who actually behaved scummy, but it's far from a clear thing right now.
Kingasume, juicebox, Moony: Who are you guys? Have you played Bay12 Mafia before?This is my first game, Bay12 or otherwise.
Hi everyone. I was skimming through the game before I replaced in, but I need to go back and do a more thorough reread.
Why is there a bandwagon on Maximum Spin followed by a huge backlash? Did the fact that he lied about not getting an action get resolved at all?
Shakerag: Why are you going after Moony? Also, why are you so grumpy?
Kingasume, juicebox, Moony: Who are you guys? Have you played Bay12 Mafia before?
Also:Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.Applying this logic to Max is certainly tempting (I admit I have a bit), but this is a very noncommital way of lynching someone, eh? You don't even have to say why you thought they were scum. Especially with the "This is Shakes' idea" bit. And how it gets you off scumhunting until we lynch Max...
@shakerag I intended to vote, however I fell asleep and didn't wake up until after the round was over
My reasoning for voting Max at that time wasn't that he seemed particularly scummy, it's that he was drawing a lot of attention to himself and not playing in a way that helped town. However the fact that he's lied several times over seems quite scummy to me, so I feel justified in leaving my vote on him
[various statements about me]I never actually lied about my ability, as Leafsnail indeed confirmed before and afterward. I did lie about lying about it. There was a reason for this. Everything else I said was true; FallacyofUrist and Shakerag were merely misled by the changing actions that happen frequently in this game, as I later clarified. The exact reason I specified "during the night" was because I did get, and then lose, a night action immediately afterward.
Why is there a bandwagon on Maximum Spin followed by a huge backlash? Did the fact that he lied about not getting an action get resolved at all?Oh yeah, also: not a fact. I said, truthfully, that I only had one action and that, if I was supposed to have had two, something went wrong.
I've played several mafia games here already, most recently the last Supernatural. As for why I'm voting Maximum Spin, See here:Weak reasoning. People are pretty much voting Maximum Spin either because 'BANDWAGON', or essentially two dimensional scumhunting.Also:Maximum Spin honestly I'm starting to agree with Shakerag now. We need you out of the way so we can actually scumhunt.Applying this logic to Max is certainly tempting (I admit I have a bit), but this is a very noncommital way of lynching someone, eh? You don't even have to say why you thought they were scum. Especially with the "This is Shakes' idea" bit. And how it gets you off scumhunting until we lynch Max...
@shakerag I intended to vote, however I fell asleep and didn't wake up until after the round was over
My reasoning for voting Max at that time wasn't that he seemed particularly scummy, it's that he was drawing a lot of attention to himself and not playing in a way that helped town. However the fact that he's lied several times over seems quite scummy to me, so I feel justified in leaving my vote on him
Leaning Town:
- Tiruin - Heeey. Judge me as you will. :P
- TheDarkStar - Targeted him N1 with a Tracker; He targeted NOBODY. He is, at least, not scum-killer. Problem is his replacement being MoonyTheHuman (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7604677;topicseen#msg7604677), he'd be reading iffy if not for this given all his 2 posts are nothing to anyone, and a IOU-of-posting-later with a blatant bandwagon push; not necessarily scummy by itself but its lacking when his follow up posts aren't...as contentful as his common posts.
- Maximum Spin - Given my dialogue and the content of his posts, I'm reading him as this, here. NOBODY BOTHERED TO QUESTION ME ABOUT IT AT ALL, and what others do IF THEY VOTED HIM is either poke him based on 'lying' WITHOUT QUOTING LITERALLY ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HE DOES AND ITS CORRELATION, or ignore him entirely.
- Leafsnail - This dude, given all of D1, was who I guessed was particularly someone of mention, and a high-value target (and he got targeted N1 -_- by scum); beforehand his posts however were something of value--it continued for the later time, instead of the SUPERFICIALITY of the votes of today. Which is why I targeted him and TDS, both people who could really ride the scumwave if scum in a large player game. He targeted ME N1. And then I got my Tracker power stolen on D2; UNCLAIMED.
- 4maskwolf - Hasn't posted much, and there's not much I'm seeing in his posts than reactivity in all his 11 posts as of this moment. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?action=profile;area=showposts;sa=messages;u=101111) He however bothered to talk to the people that were taking the limelight of the day, and engaged in dialogue regarding the night.
-BlackHeartKabal[Replacement = ???] - Only had 4 posts, exited with backlash of stupid spitefulness. Still don't see him as presumable scum given what little content is in his 4 posts--what he put in it. The spitefulness is more his learned behavior and moreso his 'thing'.
Uncertain:
- Fallacy of Urist - Seems to vote on essentials--but with lacking depth when he puts his vote. At the current 11/13, it could be better off in a RVS stage, but there's partial attention towards others instead of the two dimensional-ness I'm seeing in consideration with people's votes at the moment. Currently, there's even open bandwagoning and spurious retort, and that's all the content there is of SOME people, like MoonyTheHuman.
- NJW2000 - Post-based but uncertain--several things he says can be said within the perspective of scum.
- Starver - Post-based--several things he says can be said within the perspective of scum. But him and NJW both give some credence within their posts.
- Shakerag - Said stuff about gifts. His whole D1 content was focused on Night actions. His D2 actions, however, are more responses towards those who he sees as scummy--and there's also personal RL stuff in between which I'd like to PM him about v: but otherwise, his responses have been reactive and observational, but have also been poking people.
- juicebox - I'm voting him right now. The essence of his posts are very curious. He even mentioned that 'it's because of me [Tiruin] that his Night action failed' when I have nothing in consideration even after rolling the random generator a lot about anything like that. :v And then his communication cuts off to brevity and not much towards the people nudging him.
- kingawsume - I considered him alongside Maximum Spin D1, pretty much in the gray but leaning towny considering his actions (and that what he did was the complete opposite of trying to lay helpfully low considering how he saw 'votes and the lynch', and/or he's newbie scum with lacking communication with his team). Otherwise how D2 is going, I'm not seeing much in terms of foresight and follow-ups to other people, instead of 'voting this guy and letting it be'.
Oh yeah, also: not a fact. I said, truthfully, that I only had one action and that, if I was supposed to have had two, something went wrong.You said you didn't get an action at all at first, not that you got one and then had it stolen.
So how does that make him scum when what he said also pushes another person's claim?Oh yeah, also: not a fact. I said, truthfully, that I only had one action and that, if I was supposed to have had two, something went wrong.You said you didn't get an action at all at first, not that you got one and then had it stolen.
You said you didn't get an action at all at first, not that you got one and then had it stolen.Again, I said that I didn't have two actions, which was true. I also said that if the gift ability was supposed to lead me to have two actions, it must have missed me. I do not know whether I received an action from the gift at all, only what actions I had at various times.
I'd really like you to up your reasoning in the same here--I've been stuck with the impression that you're testing peoples interactions, but that kind of response isn't helping you at all, or town, if you are town.There's a point to it. ;)
4 is pretty much a good number, just like 3.Nah, 3 is too few. 5 would be interesting if the players are good.
But what do you even mean by the comments you keep shooting off; who do you think is scum? Seriously. -_- I doubt all those voting you are all scum. Each and every one of them have stated their reasoning or at least as much in brevity.The problem is that I can't answer that succinctly until the wavefunction collapses - that is, I have a considerably detailed network of conditionals, which I also like to think of as in superposition, but until a data point fulfills one of the conditions I can't fully confirm the identities of the mafia. If I had an investigatory power things would be different. While I could also completely detail that network of conditionals, so that others could follow the same chain, it would be a lot of work for little benefit since the mafia knowing it would alter future data. In fact, even saying this much is now something I have to account for when I read things in the future. But I have been dropping hints, which is why I'm hopeful that someone else will be able to pick it up - maybe you! - if I end up dying.
Shakerag: Why are you going after Moony?I believe I already detailed my reasons.
Also, why are you so grumpy?That's none of your business.
Yes but...sans what I interpret as confabulation--you've dayhunting to do, and you're pretty much saying you're at the same spot many of us are. Yeah that inspect thing is a good thing--that's a general fact. People often don't have that opportunity, hence why we do our best to aim as close to the best presumable location as we can during the day; that is what I'm trying to do but the interactivity is a problem when the person you're talking to doesn't.I'd really like you to up your reasoning in the same here--I've been stuck with the impression that you're testing peoples interactions, but that kind of response isn't helping you at all, or town, if you are town.There's a point to it. ;)Quote4 is pretty much a good number, just like 3.Nah, 3 is too few. 5 would be interesting if the players are good.QuoteBut what do you even mean by the comments you keep shooting off; who do you think is scum? Seriously. -_- I doubt all those voting you are all scum. Each and every one of them have stated their reasoning or at least as much in brevity.The problem is that I can't answer that succinctly until the wavefunction collapses - that is, I have a considerably detailed network of conditionals, which I also like to think of as in superposition, but until a data point fulfills one of the conditions I can't fully confirm the identities of the mafia. If I had an investigatory power things would be different. While I could also completely detail that network of conditionals, so that others could follow the same chain, it would be a lot of work for little benefit since the mafia knowing it would alter future data. In fact, even saying this much is now something I have to account for when I read things in the future. But I have been dropping hints, which is why I'm hopeful that someone else will be able to pick it up - maybe you! - if I end up dying.
Whoops, haven't been keeping up. I see the reasoning.Any ETA till you get caught up with the thread? :O
No Vote Here!
Persus13:HMMShakerag: Why are you going after Moony?I believe I already detailed my reasons.Also, why are you so grumpy?That's none of your business.
absenceStill, what he has posted is alright and helpful, and more like it would put him firmly in the bottom category.
I believe I already detailed my reasons.You did. My question though, is why you believe Moony is more scummy than Maximum Spin.
has created a mind-bending debate about night stuff and lies that he now seems to be saying was about semantics and people not understanding him.This part, I didn't do on purpose. I stated some true facts, people appear to have read too much into my words, and I didn't realise that was the actual problem right away.
- Tiruin: most active and stuff, very big on getting people to talk. Not sure how I'd tell if she were scum though, having trouble reading her at all somehow... hard to put this, but I can't imagine what I'd find suspiscious that wasn't a scumtell that applied generally. Like, I can't "get" her personality, so changes in attitude don't surprise me. She's on the suspiscious list for an attack on the people voting Max that looks a bit Chainsaw-ish, and a lotta posts that are just "people need to post more". That may seem like a weak justification, but this is partly for my benefit: I need to remember not to trust her.I'm gonna stab you in the BEHIND! @_@
Tir is the consumate player. Which means abrasive (in contrast to my playing style) but not scum-looking abrasive. Whether or not Townie. Usefully, has been firing off Pings that I've been sounding off, but I have to consider the possibility of that being deflection.I'm SANDPAPER? :'( I need to up my class then! [Also Shakerag is pretty much themed after those Shyguys in the Mario games :P So seeing him as Shak is humorous :) ]
I'd like to hear from that too, Shakerag :3I believe I already detailed my reasons.You did. My question though, is why you believe Moony is more scummy than Maximum Spin.
Incidentally, tough to say, but I think the optimum lynch, which is to say the one that would produce the most data (not necessarily most likely to be mafia, but most likely to make it clear who is), would be kingawsume. Not going to waste my vote on that until someone else agrees, though.You on the basis of emotional agreement, kingawsume on...other data, although I don't see what you're talking about there. For me, juicebox too, because he did claim an 'ability' that was based 'solely because of me', which differed from literally everyone else because it is different in how it works (and randomgen doesn't even show anything like that -.- and nobody has attempted to correct me otherwise if they did find any)
That was an unexpected reprieve. Well, things'll be a bit clearer with Max gone, but a bit harder to create dialogue.
Persus13, who do you think is scum?
kingawesume, you've voted for nolynch and bandwagoned on a player that turned out to be town. What reason do we have not to lynch you today?
Moony, Given that hopping on a bandwagon didn't help you lynch scum, what's the plan now?
I don't bloody care if your first post is just nudging people without any substance--who did you swap with yesterday or today?That was an unexpected reprieve. Well, things'll be a bit clearer with Max gone, but a bit harder to create dialogue.
Persus13, who do you think is scum?
kingawesume, you've voted for nolynch and bandwagoned on a player that turned out to be town. What reason do we have not to lynch you today?
Moony, Given that hopping on a bandwagon didn't help you lynch scum, what's the plan now?
The wine's on the table; I have a kill role, now who's going to trip it?
Same goes to literally everyone who voted Maximum and didn't bother to follow up anything at all.Well, for one thing, I'm pretty surprised that Spin was town. I guess I was wrong about him lying.
Because if I assume 3-4 scum, it is either MYLO (4/6 // out of 10) or y'know. Crucial dates.Given my read, yesterday, the chances are highest that there are 2 Mafia, about 25% more than the chance of 3 (or, separately but equally, 1) Mafia, and roughly double the chance of there being 4. (Nearly quadruple the chance of 5 of them, more than 8 times the chances of 6, though by then we're definitely into losing territory unless there's complications and/or third parties and/or factions).
[On another note, I think somebody, likely scum, tried to steal my Santa Party ability. I lost an ability last night... but guess what, it wasn't Santa Party(my mass gift ability). It was a once per night delay ability. Means more gifts for everybody tomorrow night!Just to report that my "Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you." swap action (received, as part of the full-role'switxh, D2)is probably what happened there. (Noting that this means that only you targeted me, or else you and a second person did with (AIUI) exactly the same ability such that I could remove it.
~~~
Starver, if it helps you plan anything, I targeted you with Santa Party last night.
Just to report that my "Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you." swap action (received, as part of the full-role'switxh, D2)is probably what happened there.Ah. Yeah, that makes sense, I did get that ability.
I received the Delay, and just the Delay.This worries me, especially considering the only ability I gained tonight was the ability I gained from you. I think that somebody may have interfered with my mass gift ability. The alternative being that you and me both targeted me, which doesn't seem possible, unless both of us were brainwashed and made to target me.
Some life things came up, which is why I haven't been here, but my question still stands. What exactly was the rationale for lynching Max?
Did you state that earlier?Some life things came up, which is why I haven't been here, but my question still stands. What exactly was the rationale for lynching Max?
My reason was general lack of explaining his votes.
Hey-a, 4mask...I'm fairly sure that any player can get any ability. Having an ability that adjusts alignment detection results doesn't mean that that player is mafia.
Ya mind explaining why I got an "appear as town" ability from you?
Hey-a, 4mask...Wait let me get this straight -_-
Ya mind explaining why I got an "appear as town" ability from you?
And yet when he spoke back to you, you didn't respond or didn't act directly. His 'lack of explaining his votes' was pretty much within every post he made on his part.Some life things came up, which is why I haven't been here, but my question still stands. What exactly was the rationale for lynching Max?
My reason was general lack of explaining his votes.
Everyone: did you gain an ability tonight?No :v
Neh. And my harmless, targetless ability was blocked anyway, I think.Usually people get told when they're blocked.
kingawesume, you've voted for nolynch and bandwagoned on a player that turned out to be town. What reason do we have not to lynch you today?Are you serious with this?
In general, players are not informed of whether they are successful in their action.
Indeed. If he didn't or couldn't use his kill ability, and hasn't played well, why do we keep him alive? It was a question for him to answer. But I don't feel bad about having my vote on him either, if that's your point. Why d'you ask?kingawesume, you've voted for nolynch and bandwagoned on a player that turned out to be town. What reason do we have not to lynch you today?Are you serious with this?
So if I've calculated that right, you're saying there's about a 1/3 chance at least that there are only two mafia? Would a game with eleven players ever have that few? What are you basing your reasoning on, when you say, "read"?Because if I assume 3-4 scum, it is either MYLO (4/6 // out of 10) or y'know. Crucial dates.Given my read, yesterday, the chances are highest that there are 2 Mafia, about 25% more than the chance of 3 (or, separately but equally, 1) Mafia, and roughly double the chance of there being 4. (Nearly quadruple the chance of 5 of them, more than 8 times the chances of 6, though by then we're definitely into losing territory unless there's complications and/or third parties and/or factions).
Can you explain what you mean when you say, "His 'lack of explaining his votes' was pretty much within every post he made on his part"? It is true that Max never explained his votes, and that this was a feature intrinsic to his posts, but I don't understand what this has to do with kingawesume not replying to Max.And yet when he spoke back to you, you didn't respond or didn't act directly. His 'lack of explaining his votes' was pretty much within every post he made on his part.Some life things came up, which is why I haven't been here, but my question still stands. What exactly was the rationale for lynching Max?
My reason was general lack of explaining his votes.
Yours was bandwagoning blatantly onto him >_>
But aside from that, he confirmed your thing D1, I swapped something from you D2, and D3 you hit 4mask.
So presumably that 'kill' thing is a gift or whatever. Because unless you got gifted, you're out of abilities. If it's a daykill, why haven't you used it on who you suspect is scum?
From the detail that on being given the opportunity yesterday (gametime) to know the alignment status of a random half (rounded down, and not linked to names) of the eleven living players, I received 4 Town and 1 Mafia.Given my read, yesterday, the chances are highest that there are 2 Mafia, about 25% more than the chance of 3 (or, separately but equally, 1) Mafia, and roughly double the chance of there being 4. (Nearly quadruple the chance of 5 of them, more than 8 times the chances of 6, though by then we're definitely into losing territory unless there's complications and/or third parties and/or factions).So if I've calculated that right, you're saying there's about a 1/3 chance at least that there are only two mafia? Would a game with eleven players ever have that few? What are you basing your reasoning on, when you say, "read"?
November Rules FAQThus it seems I've revealed the SK.
As the game is complicated and in any case some players just skim the OP, here's a restating of some of the things you might find helpful to bear in mind:
- All the powers are random, but the possibilities can be seen in the source here (http://playfic.com/games/jojo/power-generator).
- All town players started the game with one power (whether a passive ability, or an active action).
- Any SK players started the game with two powers, one guaranteed to be able to kill.
- Mafia players have access to a kill power that cannot be swapped away.
- All abilities normally trigger at the same time, players only die at the end of the phase (i.e. killing doesn't block), but gifts happen first, and censuses happen last.
- Players can only use one ability per day or night phase (though some abilities can take multiple targets).
The wine's on the table; I have a kill role, now who's going to trip it?
Yeah, there are some pretty useless abilities in play. Why did you feel the need to defend 4maskwolf and not wait for him to defend himself here?Hey-a, 4mask...I'm fairly sure that any player can get any ability. Having an ability that adjusts alignment detection results doesn't mean that that player is mafia.
Ya mind explaining why I got an "appear as town" ability from you?
If they were to use that ability, then that would certainly merit a vote, though.
The only person who wouldn't want an SK dead is an SK-ally.I'm fairly sure that there are no SK allies in this game, based on the OP.
Why did you feel the need to defend 4maskwolf and not wait for him to defend himself here?I'm fairly sure he would have said much the same thing, so I saved him the time. This way, he has more time for scumhunting.
Right now, if the kill-action indicates SK (like, as I said, I was chancing on if that meant Mafia), the SK is disarmed. I'd prefer to kill Mafia, at this point, than someone not so proven to be Team Scum as I (mistakenly) had started to believe.The only person who wouldn't want an SK dead is an SK-ally.I'm fairly sure that there are no SK allies in this game, based on the OP.
Which tips it for me. At least until the inevitable explanation arrives.I can see why you'd put this, but it looks very oddly defensive next to the, "oh, so I found the sk then."
So why not ask about that abilities you logic'd out that he might have, instead of something that doesn' even necessarily point out as scum when you have better reasons presented? That's why I'm asking; you've a wealth of other, better reasons, and yet the ones you bring up are superficial.Indeed. If he didn't or couldn't use his kill ability, and hasn't played well, why do we keep him alive? It was a question for him to answer. But I don't feel bad about having my vote on him either, if that's your point. Why d'you ask?kingawesume, you've voted for nolynch and bandwagoned on a player that turned out to be town. What reason do we have not to lynch you today?Are you serious with this?
I had no idea what abilities King might have, except for the kill he claimed. Are you confusing me with someone else?So why not ask about that abilities you logic'd out that he might have, instead of something that doesn' even necessarily point out as scum when you have better reasons presented? That's why I'm asking; you've a wealth of other, better reasons, and yet the ones you bring up are superficial.Indeed. If he didn't or couldn't use his kill ability, and hasn't played well, why do we keep him alive? It was a question for him to answer. But I don't feel bad about having my vote on him either, if that's your point. Why d'you ask?kingawesume, you've voted for nolynch and bandwagoned on a player that turned out to be town. What reason do we have not to lynch you today?Are you serious with this?
That and why didn't YOU vote yesterday too? Who are your suspects overall?
I am conflicted.Well, if someone has a secondary night actions (that they can take alongside their first) that gets data, the 'no night data' issue is lesser.
On the one hand, no kills, on the other hand, no night data.
I am so very conflicted.
Well, if someone has a secondary night actions (that they can take alongside their first) that gets data, the 'no night data' issue is lesser.But each person can only take one action per night(exception being if the action they take can be used twice).
Uh, no? Mafiakill blocking is a massive town advantage, especially with four town dead.Yeah, we'll just die of boredom before that. I signed up for a wacky abilities game, not a mountainous game.
I'd say there's a pretty strong burden of proof on someone wanting the block lifted: they gotta prove that anything remotely as useful as not having Town (or sk, I guess) die each night will happen.
If we lunch scum today, I guess I'd be OK with not blocking. The boredom point is pretty convincing, we aren't perfectly rational creatured.There's that.
FoU: Who are your top suspects right now and why?I'm voting kingawsume for a reason. From what I recall, he voted Spin without providing a reason other than just joining the bandwagon. He did provide a reason later(today), but I don't think he provided that reason initially(if I'm wrong, please correct me). Moony did something much similar, but his uncontested mass block claim puts him as town in my eyes. It seems unlikely, possible but unlikely, that scum would be wiling to block their own mafiakill.
You're TDS. It makes sense to denote that and what I've gotten from you N1. I would be very suspicious that it can be a lead to a deathknell to a prettymuchprobably-less-active-town, and TDS could be 'not acting in favor because he didn't do the scumkill', but hum.I am conflicted.Well, if someone has a secondary night actions (that they can take alongside their first) that gets data, the 'no night data' issue is lesser.
On the one hand, no kills, on the other hand, no night data.
I am so very conflicted.
So first of all to Tiruin, since she apparently missed the giant post in response to her: My first ability says that I can use one ability that my target's target has on myself. I targeted Tiruin N1, which is why I said I blamed her. It was supposed to be just a little joke.You know you made me wonder whatever the fish was going on and THEN LEFT ME WITH NOTHING TO FOLLOW UP RIGHT :I [/capsforaurgh]
TheDarkStar is not targeting anyone. Leafsnail is targeting Tiruin.
4mask: hasn't really posted much, not enough content to get a decent readI am not letting him live this down if he's scum :P
How does this make him scum?FoU: Who are your top suspects right now and why?I'm voting kingawsume for a reason. From what I recall, he voted Spin without providing a reason other than just joining the bandwagon. He did provide a reason later(today), but I don't think he provided that reason initially(if I'm wrong, please correct me). Moony did something much similar, but his uncontested mass block claim puts him as town in my eyes. It seems unlikely, possible but unlikely, that scum would be wiling to block their own mafiakill.
There are a lot of people who need to get more content out, by the way. More content means more of a chance to find scum from day data.
Ok, i'm going to play my other card so town doesnt uselessly lose things: Targetting me is a bad ideaSo when did you get this 'second ability'? :I
My second ability makes anyone who targets me become my role (Friendly Spy) and swap alignment to town as well. It's a virus :P
If you recall? You have the thread. You can go back and look for stuff instead of just writing stuff down on the top of your head. Why are you asking people to do your work for you?FoU: Who are your top suspects right now and why?I'm voting kingawsume for a reason. From what I recall, he voted Spin without providing a reason other than just joining the bandwagon. He did provide a reason later(today), but I don't think he provided that reason initially(if I'm wrong, please correct me). Moony did something much similar, but his uncontested mass block claim puts him as town in my eyes. It seems unlikely, possible but unlikely, that scum would be wiling to block their own mafiakill.
There are a lot of people who need to get more content out, by the way. More content means more of a chance to find scum from day data.
Ok, i'm going to play my other card so town doesnt uselessly lose things: Targetting me is a bad idea
My second ability makes anyone who targets me become my role (Friendly Spy) and swap alignment to town as well. It's a virus :P
Damn. Someone had a swap ability. I have the swap now, but someone took my block ):<So presumably, whoever swapped with you is a Friendly Spy now.
Also, i gained it on N1 (not a starter ability, i gained it)
Ok, i'm going to play my other card so town doesnt uselessly lose things: Targetting me is a bad ideaI just looked at the source and could not find anything that would allow an alignment swap.
My second ability makes anyone who targets me become my role (Friendly Spy) and swap alignment to town as well. It's a virus :P
NQT: Can the generator create abilities that change alignments? Also when is day end? Your last vote count didn't mention it.No, alignments aren't changed even with role-swap or role-morph powers. Day can end 10am tomorrow GMT.
Can you confirm/deny that alignment swap abilities are in the game? Can you confirm/deny the current source available is the one that generated this game?No alignment swapping (that doesn't work with a mafia). The source that I used was posted at the beginning of D1, I don't think it's changed since then.
Can people EXTEND this and NOT lynch the newbie for making booktells because people haven't actually scumhunted and why are they voting kingawsume when they had yesterday and didn't.NQT: Can the generator create abilities that change alignments? Also when is day end? Your last vote count didn't mention it.No, alignments aren't changed even with role-swap or role-morph powers. Day can end 10am tomorrow GMT.
Damn. The action implied it could swap alignment. Oh well.Hmph.
If you recall? You have the thread. You can go back and look for stuff instead of just writing stuff down on the top of your head. Why are you asking people to do your work for you?Alright then.
EBWOP: Juice and FoU seem the most suspicious out of the voters (excluding myself to max; he seems to have a hard on for me being sus :/ )
| 9 Town, 2 Mafia | 15% |
| 10 Town, 1 Mafia | 12% |
| 8 Town, 3 Mafia | 12% |
| 8 Town, 2 Mafia, 1 Other | 8% |
| 7 Town, 4 Mafia | 8% |
| 9 Town, 1 Mafia, 1 Other | 7% |
| 7 Town, 3 Mafia, 1 Other | 6% |
| 6 Town, 5 Mafia | 4% |
| 8 Town, 1 Mafia, 2 Other | 4% |
| 7 Town, 2 Mafia, 2 Other | 4% |
| 6 Town, 4 Mafia, 1.Other | 3% |
| 6 Town, 3 Mafia, 2 Other | 3% |
| 7 Town, 1 Mafia, 3 Other | 2% |
| 5 Town, 6 Mafia | 2% |
| 6 Town, 2 Mafia, 3 Other | 2% |
| 5 Town, 5 Mafia, 1 Other | 1% |
| 5 Town, 4 Mafia, 2 Other | 1% |
| 5 Town, 3 Mafia, 3 Other 6 Town, 1 Mafia, 4 Other 5 Town, 2 Mafia, 4 Other 4 Town, 7 Mafia 4 Town, 6 Mafia, 1 Other 5 Town, 1 Mafia, 5 Other 4 Town, 5 Mafia, 2 Other 4 Town, 4 Mafia, 3 Other 4 Town, 3 Mafia, 4 Other 4 Town, 2 Mafia, 5 Other | all these now <1% |
| 4 Town, 1 Mafia, 6 Other | <0.1% |
The entire "should you useless night power or not useless night power" thing is entirely academic to me, my role is entirely passive. That being said, I guess target me if you want hilarity to happen to someone else.
I definitely established that I had used the swap power during the day when I swapped with cb'99. By the way, there's also a role-morphing passive lurking around out there, which would definitely add to the ability shuffling problem.Oh before I forget, yeah that was my original role. Anyone who targeted me overrode a random person's ability with their role. That passive then got swapped away from me in what I can only assume (given nobody mentioned it before) was the first swap of the game and I have no idea where it went.
That would be greaaat. Because many people mentioned stuff they have, stuff they claimed, and many stuff people claimed are unmentioned if they CURRENTLY have it or whatever. Because nobody mentioned they got a track off me or bothered to verify my claim but given the state of affairs of today, its someone who swapped me on D2, and I want to presume they are scum because of general unhelpfulness.The entire "should you useless night power or not useless night power" thing is entirely academic to me, my role is entirely passive. That being said, I guess target me if you want hilarity to happen to someone else.
Silthuri, was 4maskwolf targeted with an action day 1(that you know of)? Did anybody target 4maskwolf day 1? I'm considering the possibility that my role change day 1 was caused by 4maskwolf's(and now your) passive ability.
Wait. Should have read all the thread first.
So that's basically a definite. My original role(priming everyone who hit me with a non-poison action) was replaced with a different role Day 1, with the trade action(trade the action with a random action from the target). I know I wasn't just targeted with the trade action Day 1 because my entire role changed, not just my ability.WHEN has something changed entirely and MENTIONED YOUR ROLE AS CHANGED?
I believe Maximum Spin targeted 4maskwolf day 1. When Spin was lynched, it was revealed his role name was Anti Urist... which is my role name as of Day 1, funnily enough(my username is FallacyofUrist).
Also you missed this, FoU.How does this make him scum?FoU: Who are your top suspects right now and why?I'm voting kingawsume for a reason. From what I recall, he voted Spin without providing a reason other than just joining the bandwagon. He did provide a reason later(today), but I don't think he provided that reason initially(if I'm wrong, please correct me). Moony did something much similar, but his uncontested mass block claim puts him as town in my eyes. It seems unlikely, possible but unlikely, that scum would be wiling to block their own mafiakill.
There are a lot of people who need to get more content out, by the way. More content means more of a chance to find scum from day data.
Where are your OTHER SUSPECTS?
Hey, guys. I think i found out who stole my ability.I'm finding it curious on how people haven't tracked the day abilities (I haven't due to busy >_>) but it's a supplement for scumhunting too :I
Starver had the swap ability as well. I tried swapping with him, and i got my swap ability boomeranging back.
annihilate
You Lost the ability Swap
You Gained the ability Swap.
How does this make him scum?Voting on a bandwagon without applying reasoning or at least analyzing the reasoning others use is a sign of passiveness. Passiveness correlates with scumminess.
Where are your OTHER SUSPECTS?
Hey, guys. I think i found out who stole my ability.
Starver had the swap ability as well. I tried swapping with him, and i got my swap ability boomeranging back.
annihilate
By the way, I presume its the Swap that went to King and then to 4mask that just came back to me (via unknown 4th/5thmetc parties, or not?). It's possible someone wanted to test my claim like I tested King's. Or maybe someone wanted the Kill Action. Putting that out there. (They missed, whatever the idea, and that someone now newly has the "Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap.", instead,.) FYI. It's there for you to work on if I don't play this good enough from this point on.
Starver has had three days to scum hunt the old fashioned way and so far has not done so, but has posted a whole lot of stuff on game mechanics. While that's well and good, it needs to be coupled with scum hunting.It's nothing but mechanics. Anybody can have any Action (caveat: SKs starting with an additional action with guaranteed Kill, as noted), regardless of alignment, and since then my own original skill has been added to, both swapped out for a different pair, further swapping done upon me, then by me, then twice more upon me. And similarly has all but the grojp mafiakill been likely switcherooed out the wahoo, for everybody.
Any questions?
I'm finding it curious on how people haven't tracked the day abilities (I haven't due to busy >_>) but it's a supplement for scumhunting too :I...which I lost to the data-monster under my bed, and it's one of the things I'm rebuilding, but it is now secondary to my best scumhunting tracking record, also being rebuilt from loss, because (as mentioned) anybody can use any skills they want at any time (especially non-destructive ones, like Swap) without being necessarily scummy.
Why the fish did you use Swap on King today when I did it yesterday -.-Hey, guys. I think i found out who stole my ability.
Starver had the swap ability as well. I tried swapping with him, and i got my swap ability boomeranging back.
annihilate
To quote me, from earlier (two pages back, seem to have not been ncluded the quote ref in my paste buffer, sorry!):QuoteBy the way, I presume its the Swap that went to King and then to 4mask that just came back to me (via unknown 4th/5thmetc parties, or not?). It's possible someone wanted to test my claim like I tested King's. Or maybe someone wanted the Kill Action. Putting that out there. (They missed, whatever the idea, and that someone now newly has the "Twice per night you can swap a copy of this ability with an ability belonging to everyone targeting you. Action: Swap.", instead,.) FYI. It's there for you to work on if I don't play this good enough from this point on.
I used Swap on King, today, and have been unable to use any other day-skill since.
ROFLed when I found someone had tried to Swap with me and only ended up Swapping with my identical Swap, which remains/becomes unusable for both of us...
You and juicebox I consider likely to be town based on your strong scum hunting.How did juicebox even do any strong scumhunting?
NJW2000: Why weren't you voting at the end of Day 2?Max was the lynch I was most in favour of, so I wasn't voting anyone else, but I couldn't prove his actions were much more than unhelpful (from my perspective) town. I didn't have a strong enough basis on which to justifiably vote him, though if it came down to a choice between him and someone else, I'd have tiebroken.
Why the fish did you use Swap on King today when I did it yesterday -.-I had my reasons to do what I did (or claim to do what I did, because you'll obviously also be considering if I'm colluding with King to obfuscate an unwise claim, 'getting in there first') for reasons topical to the moment I made the decision. Your prior Swap with King eirher did not change things or set up the situation that I then claimed I regchanged.
And if you're saying 'identical swap', and to presume it's what you wrote there--that's exactly what I got from kingawsume on Day 2, wherein he referenced another ability which was supported by Maximum Spin. Who was stupidly lynched.I just put it a different way to that which Moony said, except that I said was somewhat less vague.
SILTHURI! :D LONG TIME NO SEE! NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN! :))
The entire "should you useless night power or not useless night power" thing is entirely academic to me, my role is entirely passive. That being said, I guess target me if you want hilarity to happen to someone else.
Silthuri, was 4maskwolf targeted with an action day 1(that you know of)? Did anybody target 4maskwolf day 1? I'm considering the possibility that my role change day 1 was caused by 4maskwolf's(and now your) passive ability.
Silthuri: Why do you think 4maskwolf wasn't voting at the end of Day 2?
I appreciate that the two people who have now tried to Swap out that which I swapped from King (the first being 4mask or someone else downstream - please feel free to suggest its onward travel, 4mask/Silth, if you want to - , the second just publicly acknowledged to be Mooney) may in fact be the two (or two of the) Mafia, trying to get their mits upon that which King claimed and that I claimed I took off of King, if they think it's useful. It is also possible that like myself, one/both of those Swappers were doing this for Townie reasons.
King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.
NJW2000, Starver, Persus13: Why weren't you voting at the end of Day 2?I had just replaced in and wasn't confident enough to make a vote yet.
Persus13: Are you really voting FoU just because he's being lazy?Well, it worked. But you're right if you're implying I should find somewhere else to park my vote.
Alright. I'm not sure about the use of probability to predict mafia numbers, assuming there's 3-4 seems more reliable, but that's not a key concern anyway.Ever since I played two games where there were two competing mafia teams, or 5 SKs and no mafia, I stopped trying to figure out the size of the mafia team unless it was critical.
Persus13, who do you think is scum?Kingaswume is suspicious, but I don't think he'd proclaim his kill ability if he was mafia. Juicebox needs to post more. \
[Long table of stuff]Why did you feel the need to post this? How is this useful at all especially with the completely arbitrary probabilities? Does this tell you anything about who the scum are?
Okay, care to answer the other questions I posed? Namely how did you obtain the ability and why did you claim to have the kill in the first place.King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.
No, I do not have it; it was swapped early D3.
It getting stolen would mean death to me and a random other individual. Whether through the ability or through my very suspicious acting.
I can get it back, potentially. If they target me with it.
Missed this, first time past.NJW2000, Starver, Persus13: Why weren't you voting at the end of Day 2?
I'm pretty serious about that 'tally up those claims as scumhunting' thing said earlier that I'm too busy to do >_<Okay, care to answer the other questions I posed? Namely how did you obtain the ability and why did you claim to have the kill in the first place.King: Why did you immediately claim that you had a kill ability, given all the swapping power in the game? You're just asking for it to be stolen by the bad guys. It is possible I missed you saying anything about it, but do you still have it? I'd also like to know how you got it. I would say it's not necessarily indicative of a SK, but the OP says that the SK is guaranteed to start with a kill ability, which probably means that the SK doesn't have a unswappable kill ability like the mafia.
No, I do not have it; it was swapped early D3.
It getting stolen would mean death to me and a random other individual. Whether through the ability or through my very suspicious acting.
I can get it back, potentially. If they target me with it.
No previous poisonings have occurred. Nobody should have been poisoned n2 due to blocks. The serial killer would not poison themselves. Somebody poisoned a bunch of people the night everything should have been blocked. Or someone delayed the actions somehow. I have no idea any more.Starver had a Delay action. Do we know what he did N1?
NQT: Is it possible for there to be a thrice per night ability?No, there aren't 3-use-per-night abilities.
Good grief, this has been a ridiculous game. I just made a note of Shakerag's weak attack on BHK's weak attack on MTH''s weak attack on MaximumSpin.Kind of feels like everyone is dialing it in, no?
King actually played reasonably at times d1 and d2, despite some lack of experience with WIFOM etc. So if he's scum, that's a real mark of shame for some more experienced mafia players I could mention.
I call horseshit. juicebox.
- Mafia have a shared night-kill that one of them can use each night. This ability doesn't appear on censuses and cannot be swapped out or otherwise removed from a mafia player.Starver confirmed there are mafia, btw.
Might I ask for clarification on your kingawsume read?Throughout the game, he's fairly proactive, taking it upon himself to have dialogue with other players about meaningful parts of the game - i.e. arguing for a nolynch d1. Not lurking, getting involved. True, he made mistakes more experienced players might not, but he's putting his neck on the line by playing. He posts reasons for voting people and scumhunts, not always to say Tiruin's standard, but he does it. And if there's one thing mislynching Max (spiritually) and Starver have taught me, its that that's a townie thing to do. CONTENT is what we get from him.
How exactly does he read town to you?
NQT, Question: would ignition kills have a different message? Like how poison kills are explicitly referred to as Poisonings?Yes, it would say something like: NQT has burned to death. He was the mod.
NQT, Question: would ignition kills have a different message? Like how poison kills are explicitly referred to as Poisonings?
Juicebox, why didn't you mention or use this ability? Or did you use it?
Kingawesume, how does this quote in the OP make you feel:Quote- Mafia have a shared night-kill that one of them can use each night. This ability doesn't appear on censuses and cannot be swapped out or otherwise removed from a mafia player.Starver confirmed there are mafia, btw.Might I ask for clarification on your kingawsume read?Throughout the game, he's fairly proactive, taking it upon himself to have dialogue with other players about meaningful parts of the game - i.e. arguing for a nolynch d1. Not lurking, getting involved. True, he made mistakes more experienced players might not, but he's putting his neck on the line by playing. He posts reasons for voting people and scumhunts, not always to say Tiruin's standard, but he does it. And if there's one thing mislynching Max (spiritually) and Starver have taught me, its that that's a townie thing to do. CONTENT is what we get from him.
How exactly does he read town to you?
Then again, Persus's basic comprehension fail is also :/I'm sorry, what am I failing to comprehend?
It's not like there's more content than one can reasonably keep up with being created right now.
So you know where you ask juice if he's uses his ability at all? And you see the post right above that? The bit below the quoted text?Generally people are more specific when claiming what they did so I missed that. It was a simple question NJW, there's no need to get all condescending about it.
In the UK, we call the exercise where you pick out information from a text "comprehension."
Not saying you're scum asking questions to look good, but eh...
Apart from the questions unanswered, the post above looks dodgy. Asking Persus13's question about abilities again? Or factually defending Juicebox? Neither are very defendable... also, the jumping on newbs/poorly playing but involved players has apparently been scum's survival strategy the entire game, by my reads, and I'm very suspiscious of someone trying to do it now, esp with a whole game to analyze.
King is acting very odd in my opinion. I'm still waiting on answers from my initial questions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7613494#msg7613494). You picked ONE of the questions and ignored the rest, even though knowing who has kills is effing important because the scum cannot get them. Multiple kills for the bad dudes is something we don't want. Now you're jumping on juice for having a kill ability when you avoided my questions I posed on the same subject. By your own logic of having a kill = scum, we should have lynched you yesterday. I'm not exactly sure if this is just newness or if you're scummy, but for now my vote is on you. Again, abilities are randomized. Someone having a scummy ability doesn't automatically mean they're scum.
I used it N3 to prime kingawsume, and I primed him because he was my main suspect. Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for his response to my question, which he's been ignoring since D3.You mind even telling me what your question was? I've looked through the logs and can't find it.
Kingawesume: Why does juicebox having an arson ability mean he's scum?
I meant the questions/explanations for king, not juice. Your juicebox question was fine. Telling king his logic is off immediately after persus asked him to justify it was odd.Ohhhhh okay. Fair enough. Didn't even give that a thought. It was my first post of the day and I wanted to continue my case, if you could call it that, on king.
Your questions:Thank you! What was your logic behind baiting a swap?
Revealing it: To bait a swap.
How I got it: Complete role change. Not ability change, role (I'm still town tho)
Having it: No.
Again, sorry for not posting over the weekend. Had a D&D session to attend, and crashed harder than Flight 93 the next day.Weekends don't count toward day length for a reason my friend. This has nothing to do with the game at hand, but dnd is effing awesome. Hope you had a great time!
Pfp again. Naps are nice :)To who would steal it; my secondary (tertiary?) abiltity allowed me to see who swapped any other ability with me.Your questions:Thank you! What was your logic behind baiting a swap?
Revealing it: To bait a swap.
How I got it: Complete role change. Not ability change, role (I'm still town tho)
Having it: No.
It was Tirun, before you get excited.
Hey Perseus, what do think of the proceedings so far?NJW is super active and I'm leaning town on him. You seem town, if a little too eager to declare someone scum. Silthuri I can't get a good read on. Same with juicebox. I need to fix that. Shakerag has been too quiet and his posts are feel funny. Its hard to explain, but Shakerag's been less active and behaving funny this game. I'll be reading back through the thread. Hopefully I have some more thoughts to share then.
Hey NQT, it's 4 vote to hammer now, right?Correct.
Tiruin:Shakerag: Yo bro, what you do @_@Man, I didn't do shit. My gift ability got ganked before the day ended, leaving me with no night action. I am disappoint.
kingawsume:Judging by who voted who, I will go out on a limb and vote Shakerag.And this is why in the beginner's games we try to press the importance of not analyzing who got killed during the night. It's total WIFOM. Because saying I'm scum and killed Leafsnail for voting me (which is something I would almost never do as scum anyway) is just as plausible as saying that whoever is scum killed Leafsnail to make it look like I went after him for voting me. In truth, my guess would be one of:
If I getting scumbaited, Armok help me. It seems logical, but at the same time, I could be falling right into a scum gambit/bait.
Edited to correct formatting.
-Leafsnail was killed by scum because he was one of the strongest players in the game.
-Leafsnail was killed by town who was afraid one of the strongest players in the game might be scum.
-Leafsnail was killed by some random-ass ability.
So I'm inclined to think you might not be scum only due to that being a fairly common beginner's mistake (and you made an edit, which is also a beginner's mistake). Also, if that's the entirety of your argument on me (plus gut feeling, apparently) then you're going to need to try harder. Also, what NJW2000 said.
Those of you who didn't have a vote on at end of D1 (less NJW2000): So why weren't you voting? Why did you let a tie stand? If there's one topic that's been hashed and rehashed on this board it's don't fucking "no lynch" on D1.
You picked ONE of the questions and ignored the rest, even though knowing who has kills is effing important because the scum cannot get them. Multiple kills for the bad dudes is something we don't want.
Silthuri, because if he[...]Sil is the other girl in this game other than me. :P Double bah, but this is totally out of context.
Thanks tiru! But yes. Am rare internet grill.Silthuri, because if he[...]Sil is the other girl in this game other than me. :P Double bah, but this is totally out of context.
And I do prefer Sil as opposed to Silth if y'all don't mind.Ghostly apologies drift in from across the mortal veil.
I may as well claim, since nothing else is going on.Very interesting. So would the game end if only you and town were left? Do we know that scum remains?
I'm a survivor. What are folks willing to do in order for me to side with you?
I'll also claim town.what
(50% of players claim = massclaim?)
I'm a survivor. What are folks willing to do in order for me to side with you?
No player has to survive the game to win.
NQT: We would prefer to know the order of action resolution in public tanks :3
Actions all happen at the same time, but when there's a direct conflict, it'd be resolved in this way:
Redirect (redirects can be delayed, blocked, but a redirector can redirect their blocker)
Delay
Block
Gift (i.e. players have their gifted powers before other actions on them trigger.)
Frame
Save, Inform, Census, Trick, Poison, Prime etc.
Mimic
Investigate
Swaps process after the ability has been use (i.e swaps never block a power being used)
Kills kill the target at the end of the night (i.e. it won't stop a power being used). Ignition triggers before other kinds of death.
If I ignite Perseus, I also ignite myself; because I'm primed, I'll suicide.Persus is NOT a survivor. If he is scum, we lynch Sil as town, and you ignite people, then he will simply kill me (which he can do despite dying). We all die, serial killers win.
But hey, they only way that'll be viable is if Sil gets lynched.
Unless you know you're primed, cause then we're boned.
Hammer at 3. Day ends when Nov 23rd 10.55pm GMT.
I'm a survivor. What are folks willing to do in order for me to side with you?Quote from: opNo player has to survive the game to win.
Ehm. I was posting from phone first time I saw this, but what the fuck?
Spiritually, everyone wins when Shakerag gets lynched.Biiiite meeeee.
Y'all folks are dead. You can't talk.fiiine. *vanishes in a poof of smoke*
Bah.
King, I'd be happy to kill both people ASAP - if you're scum, well done mate, you've played better than half the town.Given King is scum, I assumed 1+ town apart from me. So... Persus/BHK or Sil/4mask being town: he would have been better than them. Unlike me, he didn't push for a lynch on town players and fail to tiebreak after talking about tiebreaking. I'd say King played better than two and a couple of others.
That's 4 out of 8 people you're damning here.
I feel like that with better day play, the game should have been in the bag for town. However, quality of play on this forum has degraded to really low-energy shrug lynches.A ton of people replaced out. A lot of new people came in. I have literally NO IDEA why people didn't try harder in the daygame however. >_<
King didn't play v. badly. He just failed to conform to Bay12 meta, which got him more criticism than being inactive would have. Town's biggest problem right there.It REALLY WAS NOT the 'metagame' this game, but the activity. Day game/scumhunting did not occur actively and there was a lot of passivity around. Putting it to some metagame isn't going to be valid, unless you mean the metagame means 'play your daygame'.
One mafia left was unlikely.How WAS IT LIKELY is the biggest question I haven't seen even touched this game.
I guess there was clever dickery with night actions to be done, but I didn't send one out in time. I didn't act well in other bits of the game, but lynching Persus was the best course for a town win.No, lynching Sil was the best since king claimed his primed targets in posts like these many times beforehand (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=167866.msg7625841#msg7625841), thereby you knowing you are town leads the lynch to Sil, and I am baffled how it got to PERSUS from there on because it seems all the posts after are spoken in unspoken-text. There's a lot of gaps.
If Persus uses the brainwash power on NJW and NJW uses the inform power on Silthuri, and King activates the ignite, then Silthuri will be brainwash-killed, Kinga and Persus will be ignite-killed, and town will win if scum targeted the kill at Kinga, otherwise if they target NJW then everyone will die and both serial killers will win.Or if we lynched Sil, and Persus targeted King, and King ignited, we would have won. Problem: Persus isn't that thick/generous: he'd have NK'd me, SK win. Well, given the falseclaim, maybe I shouldn't have assumed such close analysis on the part of the mafia, but anyway...
Sheesh. If king killed Persus through igniting, he would have died too. That's clear in the post you just quoted.
If there were two mafia, as is apparently so certain, then lynching Sil would have done nothing because Persus would just kill me. He was primed, he knew King was primed, so he could just cause everyone's deaths, so SK win. Granted, he might have chosen to let town win, but 1) mafia don't do that and 2) who cares about winning that way. I understood that killing Sil would give SK victory, and I didn't want to do that.
The only way we could win was if no non-town elements had a kill. (Well, possibly there was a way involving me targeting someone and using the scum's redirect, but I haven't puzzled that out yet.)
There was at least one mafia left. Possibly two (in which case just a lynch would be insufficient), possibly one and an SK with no kill. Given Persus' falseclaim, we knew he was non-town. Thus, given that it was at least possible for their to be one mafia, we needed to kill Persus, as he was most likely to be scum. In the event, we were boned, as there were two scum.Quote from: NQT observationIf Persus uses the brainwash power on NJW and NJW uses the inform power on Silthuri, and King activates the ignite, then Silthuri will be brainwash-killed, Kinga and Persus will be ignite-killed, and town will win if scum targeted the kill at Kinga, otherwise if they target NJW then everyone will die and both serial killers will win.Or if we lynched Sil, and Persus targeted King, and King ignited, we would have won. Problem: Persus isn't that thick/generous: he'd have NK'd me, SK win. Well, given the falseclaim, maybe I shouldn't have assumed such close analysis on the part of the mafia, but anyway...
Thing is, once scum knew King was primed, they were going to target me. I toyed with ways of getting them to target King while he ignited them (I think I mentioned this) but couldn't think of a reliable way to do it, given that mafia had all information I gave King, and he would probably keep his word if I made him promise irrationally not to kill anyone at night. If King had said something like, "I would never kill myself by igniting me and Persus while town was alive", Persus might have been persuaded to kill him rather than me to remove the ignite-threat, and if King had then ignited him, town would have won. Wasn't going to happen though.
They are assuming 1 mafia because if there are two mafia that would be a 50:50 split, which usually means loss. In this case, of course, it doesn't mean a loss because of abilities, but no living player seems to have figured that out yet. Because they aren't very bright.I clocked that, although I had no way of knowing whether it was town or sk that might win. I knew there might be two mafia, I just thought we were screwed in that case due to reasoning posted above.
I'd like to think that if(tm) I didn't gloat every time I got a kill role, we might have won. But alas, it didn't matter.You didn't gloat. What wasn't done was pressuring the other people who didn't look like they were doing orthodox scumtells.
This was an interesting idea; the play execution wasn't the best, but I think if we did it again with more active players (myself included), it could have been a fun game.
I think the days should have been much shorter. There's too much incentive as-is for scum to lurk, so long days just drag it out too much. 22 hour cycles might not work with a less active playerbase though.More vote counts are good, NQT. It's less 'shorter' and more 'activity'. The time of day alone isn't incentive, but what people do with it.
Sorry about the timing Persus. I think if you'd had more pressure earlier that might have helped, but scum were basically ignored the whole game.
I'd like to think that if(tm) I didn't gloat every time I got a kill role, we might have won. But alas, it didn't matter.You didn't gloat. What wasn't done was pressuring the other people who didn't look like they were doing orthodox scumtells.
This was an interesting idea; the play execution wasn't the best, but I think if we did it again with more active players (myself included), it could have been a fun game.
Although that applies for other people too >_> There was little in the way of people proactively tracking others and making cases on others rather than 'natural observation' and the 'seems like' curve of difficulty.I think the days should have been much shorter. There's too much incentive as-is for scum to lurk, so long days just drag it out too much. 22 hour cycles might not work with a less active playerbase though.More vote counts are good, NQT. It's less 'shorter' and more 'activity'. The time of day alone isn't incentive, but what people do with it.
Sorry about the timing Persus. I think if you'd had more pressure earlier that might have helped, but scum were basically ignored the whole game.
Also king: Why didn't you do most things you could've done? @_@
And why did people still NOT lynch Silthuri when Persus and king were determined to be the explosive people?
I mean you could just read above where someone pointed out that it would result in a guaranteed SK victory unless Perseus deliberately chose to let town win?
Ignition triggers before other kinds of death.
No, I know this looks ambiguous, but all actions happen simultaneously except when there could be conflict.I mean you could just read above where someone pointed out that it would result in a guaranteed SK victory unless Perseus deliberately chose to let town win?Ignition triggers before other kinds of death.
Blow up Persus, he can't mafiakill.