Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on April 12, 2010, 06:35:40 am
Post by: sluissa on April 12, 2010, 03:37:13 pm
I used to like the game. I should give it more of a chance, but Aurora has taken over my 4X life.
SotS is a great game if you're looking for a more "beer and pretzel" game. Reminds me a lot of the old Spaceward Ho! and Stars! games.
Post by: BigD145 on April 12, 2010, 03:59:08 pm
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on April 13, 2010, 06:53:50 am
I have been playing as Human only because they don't have particular strengths or weaknesses. Those you can choose by yourself by focusing on or ignoring certain research trees. Their adaptability makes them ideal for a beginner like myself.
In my last game, after decades of peaceful expansion, one of my colonies was suddenly sieged by a massive Zuulian fleet. I deployed my Saber-class destroyers, designed to engage enemies at long range using missiles (for which, the technology had been upgraded extensively). Saber-class had become the bulk of my armada for long but when facing the Zuulian fleet, their missiles became useless because of point defense installed on Zuulian ships and the corrosive torpedoes fired by Zuulian ships ate away their hulls.
I then decided to design a new ship to counter this specific threat. This class was armed with heavy mass drivers (had to research it first, but only took a couple of turns) and purposely built for close range engagement. The Gladius-class was born. Mass drivers rendered point defense useless and close range engagement meant Zuulian ships could not launch their torpedoes. I successfully performed the counter-offensive, with a kill ratio of 1:20.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 14, 2010, 01:54:29 am
Post by: sluissa on April 14, 2010, 09:57:22 am
Post by: Javewa on April 14, 2010, 01:24:03 pm
The expansions are all really worth it. The Argos Shipyards might seem questionable at first, but the added components put a lot of depth in the right places.
For beginners, I'd recommend playing the 2D Map-type. It's far easier to manage and navigate. And reduce the number of stars to about 15-20 for each race you play with. The game is far more interesting if you don't expand for 200 turns before you find any life in the galaxy. Default is 200, iirc, and that's just way to big.
Post by: BigD145 on April 14, 2010, 02:23:10 pm
SotS is a really nice game. I still enjoy it more than GalCiv and Distant Worlds. For me it places third behind MoO2 and Aurora.
The expansions are all really worth it. The Argos Shipyards might seem questionable at first, but the added components put a lot of depth in the right places.
For beginners, I'd recommend playing the 2D Map-type. It's far easier to manage and navigate. And reduce the number of stars to about 15-20 for each race you play with. The game is far more interesting if you don't expand for 200 turns before you find any life in the galaxy. Default is 200, iirc, and that's just way to big.
I don't see the appeal of GalCiv. Flat space? What?
Admittedly, SotS battles are 2D, but you don't spend all that much time in them and they are real time.
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 14, 2010, 02:54:04 pm
Seriously, after watching the tutorials, I started playing as the humans. All is fair and dandy until some meteors killed off one of my unprotected colony and my other colony party got whiped out after travelling for 52 turns...yikes. I decided to try a different race: The Hivers. Seemed the most interesting with their Gate Technologie.
For those who don't know, the Hivers are the slowest race (I think) but once settled in on a planet, they can deploy their gates so that fleets can instantly travel between them. This was really nice and I was expending quite fast with a huge income and all that.
After a while, I'm getting the message 'Something strange is approaching our hive'. I immediately build what I thought was quite a fleet, 30 Drone Carriers and 20 ordinary destroyers.
When the strange object (it looked like some kind of silver thing) had almost reached my capital planet, I decided to meet it head-on with my army. Boy, was that a mistake :-\ Because my technology didn't allow for more then 8 ships to be on the field at a time, my 5 drone carriers and 3 destroyers were facing a huge silicon queen. Missiles were fired and the carriers released the drones upon the queen.
I...thought things were going well until she released a huge amount of ships. Seriously, there were like 50 of those damn things flying towards my ships, ripping them apart while my drones couldn't even scratch the surface of the queen. My attacking party of 10 drone carriers and 10 destroyers were obliterated by the queen...and she was still heading towards my capital planet.
After this battle and the new turn starting, I get a message again: 'A strange object is heading towards one of our hives'. Damn! Another one was heading towards a colony of mine while half my fleet was already wiped out by a single one of them! I had all my colonies producing all kinds of defenses and ships while researching technologie that might combat these things: Starting with the swarming drones that she releases.
Being a Hiver, all the ships my colonies produced could reach my capital planet in 1 turn, which was the same turn the Silicon Queen reaches my planet...
The moment of truth was there, the wave of Silicon Drones headed towards my planet, my defense platforms and fleets waiting to repel the attack. My ships and the wave collided and, although I took a few of them down, the Swarm destroyed my ships and were heading towards my defense platforms. New ships had arrived and I decided to support my platforms, hoping that the extra firepower might help. I suddenly noticed that my planet was firing nuke after nuke at the Queen, so I knew that this wasn't a lost cause. I took out about 60% of the drones and decided to go for the Queen. The time limit was up but apparently, we damaged her so badly that she was still destroyed. HURRAA---WHAT! 'A strange object is heading towards one of our hives'. DAMN IT!
So now I have two silicon Queens heading towards my colonies again, I had lost 52 ship against the first Queen (20 ships as the attacking party, 32 ships while defending) and now 2 more are heading towards me. This time however..Point Defense was researched and I started to chum out destroyers equipped with point Defense only, to counter the drones. The queens both arrived simultaneously, leaving my defenders split. Both gates were destroyed so they were cut off from the rest of the planets. I managed to kill 1 of the queens, but apparently, she left me a present and there was still a wave coming, killing my gate once more...
The other colony is still struggling and yet again there's a new queen coming.
God I love this game :D
Post by: BigD145 on April 14, 2010, 03:22:17 pm
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 14, 2010, 04:06:20 pm
Auto-fight the silicon queens unless you are running around with beefy Corvette or Dreadnought ships.
Butbutbut...that's no Fun.:(
Post by: Zai on April 14, 2010, 04:54:11 pm
I recently started to try out a mod on the Kerberos forums, ACM. It rearranges and adds techs. It also completely replaces all Human ships. So far I've only done some exploratory researching with Humans in a game with only 1 enemy in the largest galaxy size with random encounters off (it's already approaching turn 400 and I still haven't battled). But what I've seen so far I've liked.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on April 14, 2010, 04:59:54 pm
I found this method effective to fight off Silicon Queen. You'd need to research Cruiser Construction and upgrade missile warhead and propulsion technologies, and deploy this fleet:
1) Three flak (equipped with point defense or something close to it) cruiser forming the first line
2) Three missile cruiser and a command cruiser forming the second line
All of them should have at least one missile launcher. Deploy them at strategic location, from which you can dispatch them quickly to intercept incoming Silicon Queen.
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 14, 2010, 06:21:03 pm
And thanks for the tips, I've already started building cruisers but I don't have the missile warhead and propulsion technologies yet.
Well, I'm off for some goodnight sleep now, this game stole it from me :( :P
Post by: sluissa on April 14, 2010, 07:42:34 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Shades on April 15, 2010, 06:34:10 am
I tend to use energy weapons the most out of anything, drones and energy weapons are lethal.
Unless I play hiver where the heavy ships with lots of slots and ballistic weapons will keep your targets unable to reform. (also hiver don't tend to get most of the energy weapons)
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 15, 2010, 07:02:01 am
Also, if you think Von Neumann and Silicoids are bad you have yet to see true horror.
Post by: Shades on April 15, 2010, 07:49:19 am
Also, if you think Von Neumann and Silicoids are bad you have yes to see true horror.
Some of those true horrors are on the level of Fun :)
Post by: Soulwynd on April 15, 2010, 10:56:36 am
The strategical view is -horrible-. I could use a mod that made ships show up better, as in where they are and where they are ago. As of now, if you play on a huge starmap, it's really hard to see where your ships are. I also hate the fleets tab, very uninformative.
Post by: sluissa on April 15, 2010, 12:41:06 pm
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 15, 2010, 01:52:46 pm
I swear, I don't know what the hell I'm supposed to do against these guys, they ravage my planets (I don't mind, I'm doing the same thing to my own planets as well) but when a frick'n peacekeeper is prohibiting me from building an army while all kinds of HFS are coming towards me, I know that the universe doesn't like me :) Still, I prefer the HFS instead of that peacekeeper, I think he's the equivalent of Chuck Norris in space.
Post by: Orb on April 15, 2010, 04:00:24 pm
Post by: Zai on April 15, 2010, 04:38:32 pm
Are there any mods for this game?Yes.
The strategical view is -horrible-. I could use a mod that made ships show up better, as in where they are and where they are ago.I don't know of any that do that. I'm not sure that's even possible to mod normally.
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 15, 2010, 05:21:53 pm
Can you buy the expantions retail? I would love to get them, I mean corrosive missiles, and silicon queens? Much better than boring old ships that can launch asteroids.
You could always try ebay, I never had problems using that.
I bought the game from Gamersgate.com, works like a charm :)
Post by: BigD145 on April 15, 2010, 06:24:30 pm
The strategical view is -horrible-. I could use a mod that made ships show up better, as in where they are and where they are ago. As of now, if you play on a huge starmap, it's really hard to see where your ships are. I also hate the fleets tab, very uninformative.
Are you sure you haven't just lacked the appropriate research?
Post by: Soulwynd on April 15, 2010, 07:03:59 pm
(ps. In my other post, ago = going... It was late and my brain broke for a second)
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 16, 2010, 02:47:47 pm
ps: I am the suckzors @ this game
Post by: Greiger on April 16, 2010, 03:09:26 pm
We should get a multiplayer match going sometime, that would be awesome :)
ps: I am the suckzors @ this game
Agreed with the multiplayer. I played this game way back before the expansions came out, but my computer could barely run it at the time. Once I got a new computer I got the full all expansions pack and played it even more. I even managed to take out a
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I usually play Tarka since I'm most familiar with their ship styles. But I've been playing Morrigi a bit recently. And think I got them down fairly well too.
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 17, 2010, 03:36:13 pm
Damn it, same thing happened to me before with The Guilds II lol
Post by: Rakonas on April 18, 2010, 09:17:54 pm
Post by: Greiger on April 18, 2010, 10:09:21 pm
Play Tarka. We have swords and live in stone like dwarves. (Or play Morrigi we are fucking SPACE DRAGONS!)
Post by: BigD145 on April 18, 2010, 10:47:23 pm
They are pansies. They are like elves...dolphin elves.
Play Tarka. We have swords and live in stone like dwarves. (Or play Morrigi we are fucking SPACEDRAGONSRAVENS!)
Post by: Rakonas on April 19, 2010, 12:43:17 am
They are pansies. They are like elves...dolphin elves.
Play Tarka. We have swords and live in stone like dwarves. (Or play Morrigi we are fucking SPACEDRAGONSRAVENSCROWS!)
Post by: Shades on April 19, 2010, 03:09:35 am
Morrigi we are fucking SPACE DRAGONS!
They are obscenely good late game too, some very tough ships and the fastest travel speeds (as long as you build big fleets).
Although I think all the races are fairly balanced, the one I have the most problems with is the zuul because maintaining those borehole links is a pain.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on April 19, 2010, 04:34:06 am
Post by: Jetman123 on April 19, 2010, 05:37:43 am
Von Neumann uses phaser point defense and a unique 'recyclo beam' as I like to call it. The phaer pd is the most effective pd I've seen, at least it's pretty much made my ships immune to missiles. However, the "recyclo-beam" will freeze any ship it hits in place and disintegrate it after a short while. This seems to allow the main vessel to produce more minions, so it's a real pain in the ass. I've found that the safest way to defend against them is either long range projectile weaponry, or tons and tons of missiles. If you fire enough of them some eventually get through and you can take them out before they ever get close.
Also, if you think Von Neumann and Silicoids are bad you have yet to see true horror.
Just target the pods they send at you, those don't have any PD. Blow them up as they come at you, and eventually the Von Neumann will be out of resources and helpless. Close and laser it to death, or just let it go.
Post by: Antioch on April 19, 2010, 12:24:08 pm
Post by: Shadowgandor on April 19, 2010, 12:28:39 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Antioch on April 19, 2010, 12:44:01 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Zai on April 19, 2010, 04:36:27 pm
It's also suspected that they were once enemies of the Zuul's lost "gods".And the Liir's Suul'ka and the Zuul's Masters are all but confirmed to be the same. They just...treat them differently.
I'm highly anticipating the sequel with its Leviathans (basically MOAR DAKKA but not so much) and higher emphasis on Battle Riders. I'm also quite interested to see the Suul'ka's ship design.
Post by: Orb on May 20, 2010, 08:41:54 pm
How does one use drones effectively? Whenever I use them, it seems more preferable to use a bunch of armour, research and battle wise. I mean, I had two dreadnaughts(Morrigi) filled with them, the drones have pulse photons. They did some damage, but the two dreadnaught did more.
Also, whats the point of increasing, lets say, a hiver population on your world if your human? They, with full research, seem to have a 1:1 ratio of productivity. I had my homeworld during a Morrigi game like 40% Hiver to test, with Hiver communication fully reseached, nothing really noticable in change.
Post by: Greiger on May 20, 2010, 09:31:04 pm
My advanced drones with dual phazors seemed to out damage my missileboats fairly well. I imagine they can do more damage per second than missiles can at similar tech. But like missiles they lose out on most of their advantage fighting close up.
Post by: Cajoes on May 21, 2010, 01:07:18 am
Basic, effective, and levels with your technology base so it can stick with the fleet for longer. Of course they tend to miss like a ****er but that's why you BULLET HELL the things.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 01:09:10 am
I'm personally partial to the kinetic missiles and mass drivers.
Post by: Metalax on May 21, 2010, 02:28:01 am
Also, whats the point of increasing, lets say, a hiver population on your world if your human? They, with full research, seem to have a 1:1 ratio of productivity. I had my homeworld during a Morrigi game like 40% Hiver to test, with Hiver communication fully reseached, nothing really noticable in change.
The main use is to get a higher production/income from your planets. If you open up the population tab you will see for your and any other races that you've researched the appropriate techs for, there is a line of the maximum population you can have on a planet without causing automatic resource damage due to population. This will be significantly less than the planets maximum capacity. However by using another race to fill this space you gain the benefits of the higher population without the damage.
How useful you may find this will in a large extent depend on the type of game you are playing. Short games rarely get up to the racial pop limit before they are over. In long games however it can prove quite useful.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 02:30:45 am
Post by: Orb on May 21, 2010, 06:06:52 am
In my experience the drones are best against ships without PD, the drones have pretty good range and seem to me to basically just let you use laser tech for long range if you haven't been keeping up with your missile tech. They also have the advantage of being able to target a specific part of a ship. Missiles can't really do that. So with drones you can take out that huge antimatter projector from afar, while with missiles you kinda have to just fire off a macross and hope for the best. Drones also can't really overkill. If you fire off 30 missiles and the ship blows up at missile # 3 the rest of those missiles are wasted. Drones just retarget and keep shooting.
My advanced drones with dual phazors seemed to out damage my missileboats fairly well. I imagine they can do more damage per second than missiles can at similar tech. But like missiles they lose out on most of their advantage fighting close up.
In my experience, if a cruiser size up doesnt have PD, its just a target in space. The AI knows this, and thats why almost all of their ships have it, rendering drones useless till you research fusion drives and swarm them on cruisers or higher.
However, I have never played against a human player, they are probably more effective.
Personally, im more of a mass driver dude, AP rounds wreck havoc. I destroy more Hiver cruisers with my wimpy hulled Morrigi cruisers than I lose cruisers. Of course, late game I tech up energy, since its way more powerful with a lot of research.
And finally, thanks for the population advice. I will have to check that out later.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 11:57:03 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2010, 12:30:00 pm
Post by: quinnr on May 21, 2010, 02:26:58 pm
Might need to try this.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 03:45:07 pm
Space...dolphins?Psychic space dolphins.
Might need to try this.
Who don't actually die of old age but just get bigger and bigger.
So big that another race actually uses their skulls for the prow of their cruisers.
Post by: Rilder on May 21, 2010, 03:48:36 pm
Post by: LeoLeonardoIII on May 21, 2010, 03:51:28 pm
The thing I probably like the most about combat in SotS is the way mass drivers work. Especially heavy drivers. Just about in any game all you see is shots hitting the ship ad nauseam, and then the ship explodes. Heavy drivers actually knock the ship away on impact. That's something you don't see in games like this a lot. Even among space sim games the only time I've seen it was in Independence War 2.
And firing the shot doesn't push your ship backward too? ???
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2010, 03:54:01 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 21, 2010, 03:56:10 pm
Oh yea, my humans had a visit from Von Neumann. He basically came by, send his diplomats to say hi against my defense platforms. The Defense Platforms were so overjoyed they exploded so the diplomats decided to trade their laserbeams for my citizens and resources and left again...
And thanks for the tips, I've already started building cruisers but I don't have the missile warhead and propulsion technologies yet.
Well, I'm off for some goodnight sleep now, this game stole it from me :( :P
There will be Fun Stuff if you successfully fend off a Von Neumann attack (not sure if you have to actually kill it or just stalemate it for the Fun Stuff).
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 21, 2010, 04:03:37 pm
Oh yea, my humans had a visit from Von Neumann. He basically came by, send his diplomats to say hi against my defense platforms. The Defense Platforms were so overjoyed they exploded so the diplomats decided to trade their laserbeams for my citizens and resources and left again...
And thanks for the tips, I've already started building cruisers but I don't have the missile warhead and propulsion technologies yet.
Well, I'm off for some goodnight sleep now, this game stole it from me :( :P
There will be Fun Stuff if you successfully fend off a Von Neumann attack (not sure if you have to actually kill it or just stalemate it for the Fun Stuff).
I...met the Fun Stuff :P Within a few turns, all of my planets were assaulted. My technology was based on defeating the original VN ships so I could hold the stronger ones off as well. Eventually found their home planet and destroyed it. Wish it rewarded you with something, that planet was so frick'n awesome :P
Post by: Rakonas on May 21, 2010, 04:08:01 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 21, 2010, 04:11:33 pm
Naval Yard is the latest EP, right? That's the last one I got.
Post by: Orb on May 21, 2010, 04:26:50 pm
Must be in the Naval Yard expantion pack!
-must- get that the next time im on Amazon, hopefully.
Space...dolphins?Psychic space dolphins.
Might need to try this.
Who don't actually die of old age but just get bigger and bigger.
So big that another race actually uses their skulls for the prow of their cruisers.
I didnt actually think of that, im bad with connections. XD
Post by: Zai on May 21, 2010, 04:41:28 pm
Naval Yard is the latest EP, right? That's the last one I got.Last one, too. SotS2 is supposed to release early 2011. I'm excited for it but I can wait. I'll probably get it at release.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2010, 04:48:27 pm
Post by: Zai on May 21, 2010, 05:06:24 pm
What's planned for SotS2, anyway? I don't think I ever saw the announcement.Check throughout the Kerberos forum. Just quickly off the top of my head: The Suul'Ka/Species Y/Great Masters are a playable race, bringing the total of known races to 7, but there will only be 6 factions (some races are being grouped together, and some will be part of more than one group, splitting these races apart). Dreadnoughts are no longer the biggest class of ships, as there are going to be Leviathan class ships. However, there will still be only 3 main ship classes; Destroyers are being made into Drone-like functionality (Battle Riders), though I'm unaware as to whether or not Drones will still be present.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 21, 2010, 05:11:48 pm
Post by: Sergius on May 21, 2010, 05:36:37 pm
Cheapest way, seriously. The more of their small drones you destroy, the more they have to spend building more, and the hungrier they get.
If you just hold fire and give them 2 cheap destroyers, they'll go away and won't take resources from your planet either.
Hell, they will ADD a couple of resource points to your system.
Post by: Orb on May 21, 2010, 05:42:03 pm
Best strategy when defending against basic Von Newman at the beginning: let them eat 2 destroyers.
Cheapest way, seriously. The more of their small drones you destroy, the more they have to spend building more, and the hungrier they get.
If you just hold fire and give them 2 cheap destroyers, they'll go away and won't take resources from your planet either.
Hell, they will ADD a couple of resource points to your system.
Butbutbut...that's no Fun.:(
Post by: Cajoes on May 21, 2010, 07:33:06 pm
Best strategy when defending against basic Von Newman at the beginning: let them eat 2 destroyers.
Cheapest way, seriously. The more of their small drones you destroy, the more they have to spend building more, and the hungrier they get.
If you just hold fire and give them 2 cheap destroyers, they'll go away and won't take resources from your planet either.
Hell, they will ADD a couple of resource points to your system.Butbutbut...that's no Fun.:(
Except for the fact you don't want to feed the Von Neumanns...
Trust me on this.
Post by: Greiger on May 21, 2010, 08:00:29 pm
Spoiler: VN Fun (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 21, 2010, 08:01:36 pm
Post by: Pnx on May 21, 2010, 11:55:20 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2010, 12:51:02 am
And yes it is nearly impossible to kill. It is supposed to be something you avoid until it goes away, not something you fight.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 22, 2010, 05:51:24 am
Post by: Pnx on May 22, 2010, 10:19:42 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 22, 2010, 10:49:24 am
Post by: mattie2009 on May 24, 2010, 01:18:37 am
Tech up to max lasers
Tech up to Dreadnoughts
Get shit wrecked by Von Neumann (Like fucking clockwork.) (If it's not VN, it's some other form of SotS HFS.)
Get insanely paranoid and build a military force to end all military forces
Get attacked by alien race
Epic win follows
Get truce made to me because I'm fucking awesome
Deny
Expand like crazy
Locate alien homeworld
Fuck shit up with my dreadnoughts.
Repeat the last 7 steps until EVERYONE ELSE IS DEAD.
Post by: Orb on May 24, 2010, 06:07:48 am
My strategy is as follows for any freeform map:
Tech up to max lasers
Tech up to Dreadnoughts
Get shit wrecked by Von Neumann (Like fucking clockwork.) (If it's not VN, it's some other form of SotS HFS.)
Get insanely paranoid and build a military force to end all military forces
Get attacked by alien race
Epic win follows
Get truce made to me because I'm fucking awesome
Deny
Expand like crazy
Locate alien homeworld
Fuck shit up with my dreadnoughts.
Repeat the last 7 steps until EVERYONE ELSE IS DEAD.
A dreadnaught only armed with X-rays destroying entire empires, wow....I got to try that :o
Post by: Sergius on May 24, 2010, 01:04:30 pm
I killed in an autocalc battle using my entire fleet of about 75 fairly advanced ships and an asteroid monitor.
I killed an alien derelict with a tanker destroyer in an autocalc battle. The tanker was a version 1.0 (the design you start with before you research anything)...
Post by: Ssiissuu on May 24, 2010, 03:33:54 pm
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on May 24, 2010, 10:31:12 pm
Post by: mattie2009 on May 28, 2010, 04:59:15 pm
My strategy is as follows for any freeform map:
Tech up to max lasers
Tech up to Dreadnoughts
Get shit wrecked by Von Neumann (Like fucking clockwork.) (If it's not VN, it's some other form of SotS HFS.)
Get insanely paranoid and build a military force to end all military forces
Get attacked by alien race
Epic win follows
Get truce made to me because I'm fucking awesome
Deny
Expand like crazy
Locate alien homeworld
Fuck shit up with my dreadnoughts.
Repeat the last 7 steps until EVERYONE ELSE IS DEAD.
A dreadnaught only armed with X-rays destroying entire empires, wow....I got to try that :o
Hidden step between steps 4 and 5: Ultimate Tech Boom.
Usually involving Emitter tech, awesomelaser tech (By awesomelaser I mean the massive Spinal Mount lasers, and by Spinal Mount lasers I mean the mid-late game "Fuck your shit, you're dead." techs.) and the epic of epics, The dreadnought + HCL tech human-only combo commonly known the SWORD OF THE STARS (insert TVTropes Link here), or as I like to call it the "Middle Finger Of Win".
Also, I hate hivers because their ships are SO FUCKING SLOW without gates.
Also also, The random-tech tree system can go eat a dick. Whenever I want them, those helpful little techs like Mass Drivers, Graviton Beams or cloaking seem to be mysteriously absent from the tech tree.
Post by: Zai on May 28, 2010, 05:42:46 pm
Also, I hate hivers because their ships are SO FUCKING SLOW without gates.Once you upgrade your engines to Antimatter and your drive to Farcaster, it's not too bad. Before then, there's Extended Range ships and RamScoops
Also also, The random-tech tree system can go eat a dick. Whenever I want them, those helpful little techs like Mass Drivers, Graviton Beams or cloaking seem to be mysteriously absent from the tech tree.You can always set all techs that were above 0 to 100 in the master tech tree list, or at least the ones you want. Somebody even did that and uploaded the file onto the Kerberos forums, so you can be lazy about it, too. But then your opponents will have those techs as well. =X
[EDIT:] Forgot to respond to the first part of the quote I split up. =X
Post by: Orb on May 28, 2010, 05:47:30 pm
Also also, The random-tech tree system can go eat a dick. Whenever I want them, those helpful little techs like Mass Drivers, Graviton Beams or cloaking seem to be mysteriously absent from the tech tree.Plus, the random tech tree is meant to mix things up, so that one player cant have just one strategy that owns every time. You have to adaptive and flexible. Adds a challenge. But eh, if you hate it mattie, just do what Zai did.
Post by: Zai on May 28, 2010, 06:39:34 pm
I've never done it myself, though I have toyed with some of the numbers when I really want to have a specific tech.Also also, The random-tech tree system can go eat a dick. Whenever I want them, those helpful little techs like Mass Drivers, Graviton Beams or cloaking seem to be mysteriously absent from the tech tree.Plus, the random tech tree is meant to mix things up, so that one player cant have just one strategy that owns every time. You have to adaptive and flexible. Adds a challenge. But eh, if you hate it mattie, just do what Zaididsaid to do.
Post by: mattie2009 on May 29, 2010, 04:47:11 am
Spoiler: VN Fun (click to show/hide)
I think you can change the combat length in-game.
Must check that at some point.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 29, 2010, 05:33:06 am
You can change the combat length.Spoiler: VN Fun (click to show/hide)
I think you can change the combat length in-game.
Must check that at some point.
Be warned that this has some balance effects. Hivers rely on the combat timer when invading, to keep the gate ships alive. Setting it longer can make hiver attacks very difficult.
Post by: Greiger on May 29, 2010, 10:53:05 am
But I (A) did not know what it was until I tried to fight it (if I known I would of just abandoned the planet) and (B) At the time I believe there was a bug related to that particular breed of fun and non standard combat time when I fought it.
Post by: Orb on May 29, 2010, 12:44:48 pm
I like the default combat time, seems just right. And I suppose I could have changed it for that.
But I (A) did not know what it was until I tried to fight it (if I known I would of just abandoned the planet) and (B) At the time I believe there was a bug related to that particular breed of fun and non standard combat time when I fought it.
The tutorial videos actually say that the combat all revolves around that combat time. So yah, changing thats going to mix things up a lot. :-\
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 13, 2010, 09:34:02 pm
Fanfics collection:
http://sots.rorschach.net/Category:Fan_Fiction (http://sots.rorschach.net/Category:Fan_Fiction)
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on November 16, 2010, 12:45:42 am
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-debut-sword-of-the/701531 (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-debut-sword-of-the/701531)
Woose thinks the graphics are, and I quote: "fugly, like, really bad".
He must be punished for his insolence!
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2010, 01:40:39 am
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on November 16, 2010, 04:37:55 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2010, 04:46:14 am
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on November 16, 2010, 05:19:14 am
The graphics in that clip are quite good. The voice acting, however, is terrible.
Oh absolutely. And it's not like Kerberos can't do good voice acting. Most of the voices in Sword of the Stars were fairly hammy, but actually worked quite well. All three intro movies had great voice acting even if it was just narration.
EDIT: Hey does anyone know of any good mods of SotS?
Post by: Sergius on November 16, 2010, 06:16:45 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2010, 06:35:46 pm
Post by: Sergius on November 16, 2010, 08:23:25 pm
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2010, 08:46:22 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2010, 10:55:04 pm
Where the f* is Northstar?Supposedly a privateer/elite type game.
Post by: BigD145 on November 16, 2010, 11:20:33 pm
Where the f* is Northstar?Supposedly a privateer/elite type game.
I love SotS and SotSII has promise, but I'd wait on it for Northstar.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2010, 11:22:10 pm
Seeing what the team has done previously, I think they could do a privateer type game very well. It will be well after SOTS2 hits that they'll be working on Northstar in earnest though, I imagine. They're a pretty small studio.Where the f* is Northstar?Supposedly a privateer/elite type game.
I love SotS and SotSII has promise, but I'd wait on it for Northstar.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on November 17, 2010, 02:46:46 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 17, 2010, 02:54:43 am
I remember Malfador Machinations doing something like that once with Space Empires. Don't know how that turned out though.It was a decent game, I enjoyed it. I don't know if Northstar would be set in the SOTS universe, makes sense tho.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on November 17, 2010, 03:00:09 am
Yeah, um... It's be cool to be able to play as a Morrigi male though and then join up with trade caravans and stuff to both guard them, and get an increase in travel speed. And when you earn enough prestige you finally get to go visit the womens on land.
Ooh, and you could form your own massive fleet that goes everywhere super fast! Awesome!
EDIT: OH yeah, for those that didn't know, stellar systems and ship subsystems are in SotS 2!
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 17, 2010, 03:25:44 am
Zuul bio-missiles carry a payload of zuul young, which are voracious omnivorous mammals about the size and shape of weasels. They spread out from the impact point, consuming all life. Often colonists simply think this is some new predator asserting itself, and the truth is often learned far too late. If this infestation is not fought off quickly, the zuul will reach maturity and actually take over the planet from the colonists.
Post by: Sergius on November 17, 2010, 09:39:29 am
Where the f* is Northstar?
This? (http://northstar.wikia.com/wiki/Northstar_Wiki)
Looks nice...
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on November 17, 2010, 10:14:15 am
Where the f* is Northstar?
This? (http://northstar.wikia.com/wiki/Northstar_Wiki)
Looks nice...
Looks Fireflyey! While not what I was expecting that's certainly not a bad thing.
Post by: Shadowgandor on December 28, 2010, 01:29:35 pm
Suddenly, I got the message that an unknown fleet was detected. I couldn't see its trajectory but it seemed to be moving towards a Size 3 planet of mine. It looked like a spiky ball.
I decided to send a Dreadnought or 2 plus half of my old conqueror cruiser fleet (about 30 cruisers) to that planet to welcome the big ball of impending doom.
After a few turns, it had finally arrived and I was really curious what this big ball of impending doom was capable of. Lets just say it was a LOT more capable then I could ever have guessed.
A couple of my cruisers were specifically designed to destroy drones with Point Defense and when I say that this big ball of doom was called 'The Locust', I smiled at the thought of slaughtering those bugs....Boy was I wrong.
Literally HUNDREDS of little triangle shaped drones came within sensor reach and had overrun my first line of defense within 20 seconds and one minute later, my satellites had been wrecked as well. Another 30 seconds and my planet was devoid of life. This was when I saw the FleetHome on my screen, the big ball of impending doom. I figured I should focus all my fire on it but I hardly seemed to scratch it.
Needless to say, I lost that battle. All my ships, satellites and all my inhabitants were gone in 1 turn.
I let my 20 or so planets start working on Dreadnoughts equipped with lasers (to deal with the drones) and missiles (to fire at the FleetHome) so that I could brace myself for another attack. Heh.
After 2 turns: 'An unknown fleet has been detected!'. Big ball of doom heading towards a size 6 planet. I immediately build a constructor so that I could build a Command Station. One turn later: 'An unknown fleet has been detected!'. WHAT!? A second ball of doom was heading towards another planet of mine.
I decided to let that planet fend of for itself while all my forces were going to reinforce the other. When The Locust had finally arrived, I had about 10 Dreadnoughts, 20 cruisers and 20 destroyers. The planet had LD and MD sats and a Command Station.
...FOR NZIJAL!
2 turns later and both my planets were lost. My whole fleet destroyed while that...ball didn't even get a scratch.
I abandoned that game after that turn. Oh how I long for revenge against that thing :P
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2010, 01:31:02 pm
They consume the resources on the worlds they wipe out, and when they get to a certain number they multiply.
Post by: Shadowgandor on December 28, 2010, 01:41:48 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2010, 01:45:13 pm
Yea and luckily for me, they multiplied when they consumed my planet. An A.I. player had died a few turns before he arrived. I wouldn't be surprised if it was because of the Locust :PBest way I've found to fight them is point defense phasers to take out the tiny craft and heavy antimatter cannons for the 'world' itself.
They're one of the cooler galactic specials in the game.
Post by: Zai on December 28, 2010, 01:46:42 pm
LocustHeh. Those can be difficult. In one game as Liir, I barely won my second battle (in open space) with it in which I had a few Dreadnoughts and several Cruisers.
They are indeed quite Fun. =P
Post by: yamo on December 28, 2010, 02:22:54 pm
Will it be set in the SotS universe? That would be pretty cool. The games have a great backstory, but no actual ingame plot other than what you imagine yourself. With a smaller scale they could possibly get in to this finally. I remember Malfador Machinations doing something like that once with Space Empires. Don't know how that turned out though.
It would be cool if on the same server some players are playing the 4x game and some are playing the privateer game...asymetrical mmop
Post by: Antioch on December 28, 2010, 06:04:49 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2010, 06:07:29 pm
locusts are the weakest grand menace >_> just have an entire first wave of point defence cruisers (even laser pd works) and then send in the blazers/torpedo's to kill the ball itselfHave you actually tried this? Because I have, and it didn't work quite that easily.
Post by: Pnx on December 28, 2010, 06:10:07 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2010, 06:13:28 pm
Never encountered locusts... but what do you do when you can't get point defence?You pray.
More seriously, you try for PD phasers. If you also don't get that, you could just slap on as much accurate weaponry as you can and hope. I beat them once with a combination of PD phaser PD cruisers and dreadnaught heavy hitters. The second time I encountered them was late-game and I had some very strong shielded cruisers which did the trick.
Post by: Lightning4 on December 28, 2010, 09:22:40 pm
I had one game where there were tons of spiky doom balls roaming around. I think I eventually pushed them back, but they basically consumed half the galaxy of its resources, including my own worlds.
Another fun one:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Djohaal on December 28, 2010, 10:41:00 pm
http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17910 (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17910)
Going through my first playthrough with it, so far so good :)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2010, 10:46:32 pm
Then I unlocked gravity shields.
For those that don't know, gravity shields completely negate kinetic weapons and missiles.
Wow was that first battle with my new shielded cruisers a surprise for him! The only weapons that could hurt my ships were the small pulse phasers he put on a few of his light mounts. I only had a handful of those cruisers because they were expensive as hell, but I never lost a one as I pushed him back and he scrambled to develop some of the neglected energy weapon tech.
Post by: Djohaal on December 28, 2010, 10:52:24 pm
On other news on my latest game I triggered a grav trap. The portal was caught in it and started to spin wildly off control.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Aaaaand the hivers of the spinning gate survived. They must be reeeally lucky. On other news the interior of the ship is covered in hiver vomit and chopped body parts, as it span around at over 30 RPM....
Post by: Zai on December 28, 2010, 11:30:30 pm
The big catch with the random tech tree (and my pet peeve) is that it's randomness is a bit unpredictable sometimes. If you are unlucky you'll end on the bad side of the gauss curve and get fewer overall techs, and perhaps lamer ones. One of my games went downhill because of that.You can always mod the tech tree percentages so that whatever you're playing as has all applicable techs (no Ramscoops for non-Hivers), or download such a mod. Or mod the tech tree percentages to whatever you personally feel like it should be for each race.
Post by: Djohaal on December 28, 2010, 11:57:53 pm
On the upside it'll pass right through the zuul homeworld. :P
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 07:09:07 am
Post by: yamo on December 29, 2010, 07:22:54 am
The big catch with the random tech tree (and my pet peeve) is that it's randomness is a bit unpredictable sometimes.
ummmm....
Post by: Cheese on December 29, 2010, 07:29:12 am
In my recent game, after a while of hoping for breakthroughs I finally managed to get Dreadnoughts. I'm now the first owner of a Dreadnought in the galaxy . Tearing through hiver cruisers with heavy beam lasers is such fun :P.
Post by: Djohaal on December 29, 2010, 11:40:07 am
The biggest problem is that I'm flanked by two allied liir empires (which are quite powerful), what means I'll need to be very swift if I ever declare war on them.
Also one upside to the complete-but-more-expensive-tech-tree. Zuul ships started to raep me with heavy stormers. Researched deflectors. This would be probably impossible to counter given that hivers tend to not have deflectors available.
Post by: Shades on December 29, 2010, 01:37:52 pm
I'm pretty much okay with the other races just the Zuul I can't get a handle on.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 01:41:00 pm
Post by: Shades on December 29, 2010, 01:44:42 pm
Research mega strip mining, overharvest your planets and build a ridiculous number of ships. Take slaves when you can (honestly its a pain in the ass) and keep killing anything you can. I've only played them a few times successfully really but they're fun.
Any tips on taking slaves? Currently I try to crush a planets defences then pull slave ships in after that is done other wise they don't seem to survive. But even this only gets me a very small amount of production bonus.
I suppose if I managed to get good stealth with them that would be easier.
Maintaining wormholes is effort too :(
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 01:48:44 pm
Post by: Djohaal on December 29, 2010, 01:49:23 pm
Stealth slaver ships sound like a good idea too though.
It amazes me to no end how much pounding zuul ships can take, considering they are made of.. well... crap.
Also what's your favourite strategy to take out defence platforms? Usually I send 3 blazer cruisers looping around the planet on the opposite direction of the platforms's orbiting, while the rest of the fleet bombards the surface back to stone age.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 01:50:47 pm
Hell when I play as zuul I research missile tech as much as I can because their ships are extremely fast. Outrange = win
Post by: Djohaal on December 29, 2010, 01:52:10 pm
Then they have to run for their money. :P
Post by: Fikes on December 29, 2010, 03:12:12 pm
Post by: Djohaal on December 29, 2010, 03:14:36 pm
Start your first game on easy to get used with the mechanics and etc. Also learn how to operate the tactical combat. It is quite difficult at first.
Post by: Lightning4 on December 29, 2010, 03:23:41 pm
Also one upside to the complete-but-more-expensive-tech-tree. Zuul ships started to raep me with heavy stormers. Researched deflectors. This would be probably impossible to counter given that hivers tend to not have deflectors available.
Well, Hivers have the second best shot at second best armor, and best shot at the best. This is where their ballistic defense normally lies. It's not invulnerability, but it does help a lot.
Sure, there's still the chance you won't roll that either, but the odds are quite in your favor. :P
Post by: Orb on December 29, 2010, 03:26:17 pm
Post by: Shades on December 29, 2010, 04:29:32 pm
Is the shipyard expansion(or whatever its called) worth it? I've been considering getting it through Amazon. I already have the "Ultimate Collection".
Yes, very much so. You get a chunk of new techs to play with :)
Also what's your favourite strategy to take out defence platforms? Usually I send 3 blazer cruisers looping around the planet on the opposite direction of the platforms's orbiting, while the rest of the fleet bombards the surface back to stone age.
Mostly I find that as PD don't do much damage each I can just have my right most two ships in the line be heavy armour and slow heavy weapons and as each PD orbits into range it gets flattened in short order.
Post by: Fikes on December 29, 2010, 06:30:51 pm
None of these games come with an explanation that says "Food is this important, a surplus does this, a deficit does this". 4x games really complicate this because there are generally many buildings, each with a cost and benefit, and many resources.
That is why these games should have a "getting started guide" that kicks ass.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 06:32:01 pm
Post by: Fikes on December 29, 2010, 06:36:50 pm
Hopefully you understand what I am saying though. I don't get that much time to play games any more and I don't want to spend hours bumbling through a crappy ill-explaned UI to figure out what building I should create.
It is one thing if there is an easy way to get answers to your questions, ala the DF wiki or forums. It is another thing if you are left completely in the dark, like I was with "The Guild 3"
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 06:38:27 pm
Ha.I do understand, I was just being facetious. The only game I've seen which tried to address your concern is Distant Worlds, which has a fairly extensive ingame galactopedia which explains all game concepts and such.
Hopefully you understand what I am saying though. I don't get that much time to play games any more and I don't want to spend hours bumbling through a crappy ill-explaned UI to figure out what building I should create.
It is one thing if there is an easy way to get answers to your questions, ala the DF wiki or forums. It is another thing if you are left completely in the dark, like I was with "The Guild 3"
Post by: Greiger on December 29, 2010, 07:22:53 pm
Also what's your favourite strategy to take out defence platforms? Usually I send 3 blazer cruisers looping around the planet on the opposite direction of the platforms's orbiting, while the rest of the fleet bombards the surface back to stone age.
My ships typically also fly around the planet counter to the orbit. I don't split them up though, the ships just bombard the planets passively as they fly around towards the next target. And take a second or two to fill the next platform with lazory death then continue flying with the left side of the ships all firing at will.
That would probably kick all kinds of ass with terrans, what with their ships built for broadsides, but it works pretty good with tarka as well which is what I play all the time. Hell don't even need to keep them in formation. The fast knife fighter destroyers that usually end up outrunning everything else is usually more than enough to destroy any platform without significant damage. If a platform somehow manages to get past my destroyers they just continue on flying into the next target, while the likely heavily damaged platform is now orbiting uncontrollably to my capital and planetbusters.
Nothing quite as satisfying as seeing a tiny little light defence platform take the full brunt of two dozen fixed mount heavy Lancers.
Post by: Orb on December 29, 2010, 08:16:16 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2010, 08:23:34 pm
Whats a good medium turret mount for Tarka Cruisers? I'm finding plasma cannons lack the oooph I want. Been researching mass drivers, since emitters was a dead end.Mass drivers are good, but horribly inaccurate. If you get armor piercing shells though go with that. Slight damage reduction but much better accuracy and range IIRC
Post by: Djohaal on December 29, 2010, 09:21:07 pm
Ha.
Hopefully you understand what I am saying though. I don't get that much time to play games any more and I don't want to spend hours bumbling through a crappy ill-explaned UI to figure out what building I should create.
It is one thing if there is an easy way to get answers to your questions, ala the DF wiki or forums. It is another thing if you are left completely in the dark, like I was with "The Guild 3"
The help file is quite... helpful with many UI things, but not all of them, you always end up finding a trick or another (my face when I found the trade screen could be summarized as "d'oh!" ) But hey, you have a forum thread to ask all your noobness :P
Oh on point defence again, I really like them because they render most of my ships invulnerable to almost all missle fire (just not the first volley when two fleets meet). Usually tiny turrets aren't much better using other guns unless you get polarized plasmatics or phasers. Emitters have good accuracy but their rate of fire make them prohibitive for PD role.
Also upgrade your particle beam to neutron beam whenever possible. It slices through enemy ships.
Post by: Zai on December 29, 2010, 09:51:03 pm
Ha.SotS is fairly intuitive. There are no buildings (aside from space stations, which I almost never bother building), just ships. Almost everything is abstracted to sliders (though you do see the numbers associated with each position of a slider).
Hopefully you understand what I am saying though. I don't get that much time to play games any more and I don't want to spend hours bumbling through a crappy ill-explaned UI to figure out what building I should create.
It is one thing if there is an easy way to get answers to your questions, ala the DF wiki or forums. It is another thing if you are left completely in the dark, like I was with "The Guild 3"
If you haven't bought SotS yet, SotS II should be coming out sometime in the not-so-distant future, so you may want to wait on that. But SotS Complete Collection (Base game + all expansions + a few things not found in any other releases/patches) is currently going for approximately $10 on both Steam and GamersGate (until their respective holiday sales end), and is definitely worth that much (I paid about $40 for the game and all expansions all together and still feel like I got my money's worth).
As for starting out: I think Tarka or Liir are good races to choose when you're starting out (and even better to play when you've gotten used to the game; Liir, Tarka, and Hiver are my most-played races, in that order). Probably Tarka, as their ships' movement is not limited by anything, unlike every other race (fleets for Morrigi, using existing node lines for Humans, creating node lines for Zuul, proximity to other planets for Liir, using gates or going extremely slowly for Hiver). I think most things can be learned by playing the game.
Post by: Lightning4 on December 30, 2010, 12:41:25 am
Whats a good medium turret mount for Tarka Cruisers? I'm finding plasma cannons lack the oooph I want. Been researching mass drivers, since emitters was a dead end.
You might like stormers if it's a close range brawler ship. Tarka usually roll them, and they're great as long as the target doesn't have as much armor.
Post by: Dohon on December 30, 2010, 05:17:01 am
Whats a good medium turret mount for Tarka Cruisers? I'm finding plasma cannons lack the oooph I want. Been researching mass drivers, since emitters was a dead end.
You might like stormers if it's a close range brawler ship. Tarka usually roll them, and they're great as long as the target doesn't have as much armor.
Stormers also tend to "bowl" destroyers around. Handy if those are spinal mounts, since they won't be able to actually bring that laser beam to bear. Cruisers last a lot longer against stormers though.
Post by: Lightning4 on December 30, 2010, 06:28:37 am
Heavy stormers probably have the oomph to push cruisers around.
Post by: Cheese on December 30, 2010, 07:58:37 am
Whats a good medium turret mount for Tarka Cruisers? I'm finding plasma cannons lack the oooph I want. Been researching mass drivers, since emitters was a dead end.
I just rely on Heavy beam lasers to dish out damage, can't seem to find anything for medium mounts aside for missiles.
Post by: Antioch on December 30, 2010, 09:23:38 am
Whats a good medium turret mount for Tarka Cruisers? I'm finding plasma cannons lack the oooph I want. Been researching mass drivers, since emitters was a dead end.
I just rely on Heavy beam lasers to dish out damage, can't seem to find anything for medium mounts aside for missiles.
I usually go for plasma cannons, they aren't great but they do the job, they are also easy to research and the tree gets a lot better when you get fusion. After that you can get antimatter cannons which are usually the best medium weapon mount.
I find missiles are obsolete to fast once point defence is researched, so you still have to research another branch of the tech tree.
Post by: Djohaal on December 30, 2010, 01:49:22 pm
Also heavy drones with phasers man. Heavy drones with phasers.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 30, 2010, 06:03:14 pm
Heavy drones with phasers.
Post by: Shades on December 31, 2010, 08:45:13 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 31, 2010, 11:40:54 am
I quite like the light emitter techs if you have them. Get a few ships close in and watch everything fry at once :) Not so good late game mind you.And not good if the opponent gets energy absorbers. I think light emitters and plasma cannons are reduced by ~75% by absorbers.
Post by: Djohaal on December 31, 2010, 05:04:53 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 31, 2010, 11:38:11 pm
Post by: Lightning4 on January 01, 2011, 04:12:13 am
I quite like the light emitter techs if you have them. Get a few ships close in and watch everything fry at once :) Not so good late game mind you.And not good if the opponent gets energy absorbers. I think light emitters and plasma cannons are reduced by ~75% by absorbers.
Yeah, and emitters are reduced a further 50% if the enemy has hardened electronics.
Post by: Dohon on January 01, 2011, 04:14:54 am
Heavy drones with phasers.
Morrigi Heavy Drones with Phasers. So many ...
*rocks back and forth*
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 01, 2011, 11:02:25 am
Post by: Orb on January 01, 2011, 03:14:47 pm
Spoiler: For people too lazy to find where to get the complete collection (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cheese on January 01, 2011, 03:50:06 pm
What do you guys think about a Sots community play? I can host it in about a month, give or take, depending on how slow Amazon is on shipping. We would be playing with all the expansions, since I don't think its possible otherwise.Sounds interesting. Will we be playing a big or small galaxy?Spoiler: For people too lazy to find where to get the complete collection (click to show/hide)
Post by: Orb on January 01, 2011, 04:40:30 pm
Well, I was thinking around 200 stars. Gives each player 25 stars, so about 10 stars habitable. Still haven't fully decided on the other options, but I think I'll leave diplomacy open(form alliances), since Bay12 loves diplomacy, subterfuge, and so on. Everything else will be on default, so its balanced for all races.(putting ly distance at 25 would make it suicidal to play as hiver or human). Galaxy type can be decided by a vote, which I could do in a separate thread.What do you guys think about a Sots community play? I can host it in about a month, give or take, depending on how slow Amazon is on shipping. We would be playing with all the expansions, since I don't think its possible otherwise.Sounds interesting. Will we be playing a big or small galaxy?Spoiler: For people too lazy to find where to get the complete collection (click to show/hide)
"Edit" Or if someone is really good, we could play Hungry Children.
Post by: Djohaal on January 02, 2011, 12:41:47 am
Post by: Krelian on January 02, 2011, 02:16:02 am
This game is one of my favs. I had waited for like 10 years for a worthy succesor to Master of orion 2, and this game is it.
Only thing I dont like is the voice acting.
And SotS2 is comming next year! yay!
Post by: Zai on January 02, 2011, 02:31:19 am
Unless they delayed it?
Some of the voice acting isn't bad. A lot of the rest falls in so bad it's good territory.
Post by: Krelian on January 02, 2011, 02:53:32 am
SotS2 is coming out this year, heh. ;P
Unless they delayed it?
Some of the voice acting isn't bad. A lot of the rest falls in so bad it's good territory.
omg, I am still not used to 2011 lol... yeah, THIS YEAR !!! eeeeeeeeee
I have not heard all the voice.. I have only played with morrigi and hivers (started with morrigi, then I tried hivers, and I just foll in love)
Probably the humans voice is quite nice.
What have been the best moment for you?
Mine when I tried those heavy drivers and to my surprise the ship got a single huge cannon below it, and then in combat... oh my, a huge ranged attack that sent enemy ships bouncing arround... nergasm right there.
I must admit, Im a huge space theme fan... big battleships with tons of turrets and stuff...
Other games worth mentioning: Gratuitous Space Battles; X3Terran conflic, and to a lesser extent Sins of a solar empire.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 02, 2011, 06:49:06 am
What do you guys think about a Sots community play? I can host it in about a month, give or take, depending on how slow Amazon is on shipping. We would be playing with all the expansions, since I don't think its possible otherwise.Spoiler: For people too lazy to find where to get the complete collection (click to show/hide)
Same price on Impulse, currently.
Also:
SYSTEM UPDATE.
Personally, I like the Peacekeeper voice. Even if he is a giant dick.
Post by: Orb on January 07, 2011, 11:43:31 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I love heavy lasers. Especially with antimatter drives.
Post by: Dohon on January 08, 2011, 05:03:24 am
Post by: Antioch on January 08, 2011, 06:33:50 am
Post by: Empty on January 08, 2011, 06:38:31 am
What counter is there to Liir blazer dreadnoughts? It seems like you have basically lost once these get produced in large enough numbers, they far outclass other blazers and because of their speed they toast cruisers.
Just use anti laser armor/shielding.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 08, 2011, 06:41:11 am
Zuul missile ships could just stay out of range forever.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 08, 2011, 08:46:20 am
If you can't out-shoot them, try an unconventional or a counter route. EMPs, disruptors, energy absorbers, range, etc.
As for blazer DNs, Hivers are the worst offenders based on how many beams they field. 18 beams. Woe to anyone in their path if they roll cutting beams.
Post by: Antioch on January 08, 2011, 10:51:33 am
Post by: Omegastick on January 08, 2011, 02:50:37 pm
Post by: DarkAnt on January 08, 2011, 05:01:51 pm
Post by: Empty on January 08, 2011, 05:38:54 pm
Post by: NUKE9.13 on January 08, 2011, 05:51:43 pm
Hey there, I've just bought this game. I'm finding it pretty difficult to actually do anything though. I've done the tutorial and everything but every time I meet an enemy they kick my ass horribly, any tips?If by 'enemy' you mean alien menace, yeah, that's supposed to happen. Scout ships, colonists, whatever else, will get eaten up by colony traps/derelicts/swarms/whatever. Once you have decent weapons, you can send a few warships to clear them out; until then, avoid them.
If you mean other races... change race? Or research the appropriate xenotech and sue for peace. (Unless its the zuul. The zuul do not do peace. Ever)
Post by: Rakonas on January 08, 2011, 06:21:00 pm
(Unless its the zuul. The zuul do not do peace. Ever)Unless you're lucky. If you are at peace with the Zuul, though, don't break it, especially since they're probably at war with everyone else.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 08, 2011, 06:24:10 pm
The Zuul don't do peace, they just haven't eaten you yet.(Unless its the zuul. The zuul do not do peace. Ever)Unless you're lucky. If you are at peace with the Zuul, though, don't break it, especially since they're probably at war with everyone else.
Post by: Omegastick on January 08, 2011, 06:26:10 pm
I've tried playing as humans and as the... Um... Not hive-thingies or space dolphin aliens and failed horribly with both, yet I've never come across a proper enemy.
I'm thinking of trying the Hive-thingies, they sound a lot like my play style in just about every game.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 08, 2011, 06:27:56 pm
Yeah, it's the alien menace that keeps killing me, I'll avoid them now.Hivers are incredibly powerful around the middle game but very slow to start. It can take upwards of 30 turns to reach your first star if you're unlucky.
I've tried playing as humans and as the... Um... Not hive-thingies or space dolphin aliens and failed horribly with both, yet I've never come across a proper enemy.
I'm thinking of trying the Hive-thingies, they sound a lot like my play style in just about every game.
Do you know which alien menace you're fighting? We can offer tips on combating them.
Post by: Omegastick on January 08, 2011, 06:29:30 pm
EDIT: By the way, in the past I have died to the swarm and the Von Neumann.
Post by: Rakonas on January 08, 2011, 06:32:55 pm
Derelicts in my current game, I've destroyed two but with heavy losses each time. The crap thing is that they surround my home world.That's the wonder of the RNG.
EDIT: By the way, in the past I have died to the swarm and the Von Neumann.
Sometimes you've got the perfect setup, sometimes your setup is crap, but it's something different.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 08, 2011, 06:35:50 pm
Derelicts in my current game, I've destroyed two but with heavy losses each time. The crap thing is that they surround my home world.Use missile-heavy ships set to stand off and you should be able to pound alien derelicts from a distance with little or no return fire. Also, spoiler in case you don't want to know but
EDIT: By the way, in the past I have died to the swarm and the Von Neumann.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Swarmers are a pain in the ass, get point defense tech and equip destroyers with PD sections and PD lasers with only a few normal weapons to pound the nest/queen. The swarming 'bees' will tear through normal ships at low tech.
Von Neumann... well its actually best NOT to fight them because:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A good tactic against VN is just to build a full ring of defense sats around your planets and let them eat the sats. If you don't, they will drain resources from your planet.
If the random encounters are really bugging you, you can turn them down or off at the game config screen before starting a game.
Post by: chaoticag on January 08, 2011, 07:10:59 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 08, 2011, 07:12:09 pm
The manual of the game suggests playing with 2 or 3 AI players for your first run. I'd actually pump that up so that you won't win through peace once you finally figure out why ships are cheap compared to other 4x games. And the 3d star maps are pretty disorienting :s. I kinda see why 2d space has some apeal, but does anyone know of a map without too much... verticality compared to the sphere map?There is a disc map shape and a completely flat one as well.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 08, 2011, 07:49:54 pm
Post by: Dohon on January 09, 2011, 04:26:43 am
As for the best starting race, I found the Tarka's to be the best "combat" race, but the Liir generally have more research options. Liir ships are fast in deep space, but slow down near gravity wells, while Tarka ships just go the same speed. Their drives are familiar though and they both closely resemble the "classic" 4X warp drive. Morrigi also have a similar drive, but they need numbers in order to increase speed. So, Tarka or Liir. I learned the ropes with the Tarka.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on January 09, 2011, 05:00:23 am
Post by: Shadowlord on January 09, 2011, 05:12:53 am
And they make a very satisfying thump when they hit the ground.
Post by: Orb on January 10, 2011, 10:15:03 pm
Spoiler: Designs (click to show/hide)
So, that is my current main battleship weapon design. I have the mass driver damage booster researched also. As in most games, my designs are pretty simple. Does the Bay12 forums have any say in improvements?
Notes: I can't go any further up the heavy laser tech tree. I'm hoping I'll salvage cutting beams from one my neighbors eventually. Fusion Cannons+ does seem possible, along with the electricity route. But phasers seem a no go at the moment. Finely, I don't have the shipyard expansion(yet), so a few techs are unavailable.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 10, 2011, 10:36:18 pm
Post by: Shades on January 11, 2011, 03:15:36 am
I have honestly never found heavy beams to be very effective except on Zuul DN, where they are TURRETED.
Really? Thats not even funny amounts of pain there. I've never been any good with Zuul though, just isn't my play style I guess.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 11, 2011, 03:18:18 am
Post by: Lightning4 on January 11, 2011, 06:21:53 am
Oh yes. An AI command module. Many guns with perfect accuracy. Given the zerg-like behavior of the Zuul ships, it is hard being on the recieving end of that.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 11, 2011, 07:37:21 am
What can make a Zuul DN more terrifying?That's assuming they roll AI tech, and ai fire control, and manage not to have an AI rebellion. :D
Oh yes. An AI command module. Many guns with perfect accuracy. Given the zerg-like behavior of the Zuul ships, it is hard being on the recieving end of that.
But yes, a Zuul DN with AI fire control is a monster.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 11, 2011, 08:32:24 am
What can make a Zuul DN more terrifying?That's assuming they roll AI tech, and ai fire control, and manage not to have an AI rebellion. :D
Oh yes. An AI command module. Many guns with perfect accuracy. Given the zerg-like behavior of the Zuul ships, it is hard being on the recieving end of that.
But yes, a Zuul DN with AI fire control is a monster.
I did it once in one game. Though I did have a rebellion, but put it down before it got out of hand.
Funny enough, Zuul are actually second best at getting Virus, and tied with first for slaves. They have few problems once they actually GET AI tech.
There are four shots at AI, so even with the fairly low chance Zuul have, you might see it every other game or so.
As for rebellions, there's always the other source. No idea why he always targets the Zuul in my games. I hate Zuul AI rebellions so much.
Post by: Omegastick on January 11, 2011, 04:40:29 pm
Post by: Shades on January 11, 2011, 04:44:56 pm
Alright, I've settled for the Hivers, they really match my playstyle. Anyway, I only have a very short time of internet connection here, so I've got to type this quick: what the hell does over budget mean?
Assuming research is over budget it means you went over 100% of the estimated time / cost to complete. Research is finished from between 50% and 150% of the estimate.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 12, 2011, 04:23:32 am
Boosting your research by pouring extra money into it can give you a big boost on the completion. It can also cause the entire project to fail and restart or cause even worse things to happen on dangerous projects. (Like a bioweapon infecting your world)
Post by: Shadowlord on January 12, 2011, 04:29:45 am
Post by: Empty on January 12, 2011, 04:37:54 am
I've tried both boosting research while overbudget, and cutting my science budget to almost nothing while overbudget, and you know, cutting the science budget seems to work just as well for finishing the project as doing nothing to it, and gives you all kinds of cash while your researchers screw around, without the risk of boosting research. That's what it looked like to me, anyhow.
Overboosting is riskier but cheaper.
It generates twice as much research for each credit.
And by the gods don't overboost plague and ai related tech.
Post by: lastofthelight on January 12, 2011, 04:47:51 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 12, 2011, 04:50:13 am
I never got into this game because I felt guilty that I had to genocide millions of people/dolphins to take over a planet.That's changed now. You wipe out the imperial population (ie, all the military and support) and you can take the planet and keep the civilians.
Post by: Shadowlord on January 12, 2011, 05:37:35 am
There are one or two ways to capture colonies completely intact, but they require higher-end techs.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 12, 2011, 05:46:16 am
I didn't even notice that some of them were being left alive.Generally your ships will stop bombarding once all imperial presence is destroyed, but leave the civvies.
There are one or two ways to capture colonies completely intact, but they require higher-end techs.
You can tell them to continue tho if you want, and wipe them all out
Post by: motorbitch on January 12, 2011, 08:25:54 am
for the hint not to blow up the vn probes, i dissagree. distroying them will grant a ressource bouns to the system, and the vn´s are handled as a fraktion by the game. thus they do need ressources to build the berzerkers. if you deny these ressurces no berserks will spawn.
sure, its always a bit of gambling as the ai may mess this up, but usualy ai empires do have pretty strong defences on all planets. just make sure to defend the uncolonised planets as well. just 3 de with some pd will do the job. sure, this way is a bit risky, but i see berzerks verry verry rarely in my games.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on January 12, 2011, 09:28:36 am
As for VN, I tend to just kill the tiny guys and leave the big guy alone, and it works out fine. Remember that missiles don't work well since they have Point Defense Phasers.
I've found the heavy Mass Drivers from Argos Naval Shipyard to be the best late game weapon I could have hoped for. They have excellent range and hits send enemy ships spinning out of control like crazy before they can even attack. I'm almost tempted to take on a Peacekeeper with them. I tried these after I found the heavy beams to be somewhat disappointing due to their short range. My fleets are usually one command DN then as many DNs and Cs with the heavy MDs and PD phasers as I can field and then a view missile ships, maybe some utility ships.
Post by: Omegastick on January 12, 2011, 10:51:03 am
Post by: Rakonas on January 12, 2011, 11:06:12 am
Okay, thanks for the help, this game has learning curve nearing Dwarf Fortress'. One more question, how do you progress from destroyer class to cruiser class, and from cruiser to dreadnought?You need techs that would support such large ships. Consider transferring your shipyards into orbit, and alloys more capable of supporting increasing mass.
Post by: Omegastick on January 12, 2011, 11:21:44 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 12, 2011, 05:32:46 pm
since amoc, all heavy beams of all fractions have at last 7° "turret" move, witch makes them much more usefull. i use heavy beams in dn fights to strip off turrets a lot, what works like a charm due to the long beam duration and the high point focussed damage.Or you could let it eat 3-4 defense sats and go away, and replace them cheap without any risk of berserkers.
for the hint not to blow up the vn probes, i dissagree. distroying them will grant a ressource bouns to the system, and the vn´s are handled as a fraktion by the game. thus they do need ressources to build the berzerkers. if you deny these ressurces no berserks will spawn.
sure, its always a bit of gambling as the ai may mess this up, but usualy ai empires do have pretty strong defences on all planets. just make sure to defend the uncolonised planets as well. just 3 de with some pd will do the job. sure, this way is a bit risky, but i see berzerks verry verry rarely in my games.
Post by: Sergius on January 12, 2011, 05:49:44 pm
since amoc, all heavy beams of all fractions have at last 7° "turret" move, witch makes them much more usefull. i use heavy beams in dn fights to strip off turrets a lot, what works like a charm due to the long beam duration and the high point focussed damage.Or you could let it eat 3-4 defense sats and go away, and replace them cheap without any risk of berserkers.
for the hint not to blow up the vn probes, i dissagree. distroying them will grant a ressource bouns to the system, and the vn´s are handled as a fraktion by the game. thus they do need ressources to build the berzerkers. if you deny these ressurces no berserks will spawn.
sure, its always a bit of gambling as the ai may mess this up, but usualy ai empires do have pretty strong defences on all planets. just make sure to defend the uncolonised planets as well. just 3 de with some pd will do the job. sure, this way is a bit risky, but i see berzerks verry verry rarely in my games.
You even get additional resource points added to your planet when you do that.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 12, 2011, 05:52:27 pm
Post by: Zai on January 12, 2011, 11:37:44 pm
I laughed at this.Okay, thanks for the help, this game has learning curve nearing Dwarf Fortress'. One more question, how do you progress from destroyer class to cruiser class, and from cruiser to dreadnought?You need techs that would support such large ships. Consider transferring your shipyards into orbit
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on January 13, 2011, 12:17:59 am
If you care enough to manage the battle you can just blow up the gatherer pyramid things until the mothership goes away.
That's what I usually do.
Post by: Krelian on January 13, 2011, 01:25:28 am
Alright, I've settled for the Hivers, they really match my playstyle. Anyway, I only have a very short time of internet connection here, so I've got to type this quick: what the hell does over budget mean?
Hivers are the best... you may be the slowest guy in the galaxy when expanding / conquering, but only you have a planet, you have it for good. Full fleet defense in every planet... gateways rules. Plus, super strong ships. And
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also like Morrigi, super good techs, kinda fast travel, and awesome economy; but I dont like too much their ship designs... too noisy :/
I never noticed zuul DN had turreted beams!! I guess I never got that far with a zull oponent alive. They tend to win early, but once mid-late game hits, they are too far behind other empires.
I've found the heavy Mass Drivers from Argos Naval Shipyard to be the best late game weapon I could have hoped for. They have excellent range and hits send enemy ships spinning out of control like crazy before they can even attack.
Heavy drivers are just too sexy
Post by: Shades on January 13, 2011, 03:42:32 am
I also like Morrigi, super good techs, kinda fast travel, and awesome economy; but I dont like too much their ship designs... too noisy :/
A large morrigi fleet can have utterly obscene speeds. Faster even than humans along node lines (over 30 I recall correctly)
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on January 13, 2011, 04:14:09 am
Post by: Krelian on January 13, 2011, 04:25:07 am
I also like Morrigi, super good techs, kinda fast travel, and awesome economy; but I dont like too much their ship designs... too noisy :/
A large morrigi fleet can have utterly obscene speeds. Faster even than humans along node lines (over 30 I recall correctly)
exactly, that's why they are my favorites second only to Hivers and their instant travel :p
The biggest problem with Morrigi is reinforcing the fleet with ships that are being made in the inner parts of the empire, they take for ever.
Post by: Krelian on January 13, 2011, 04:27:38 am
The Flock drive is awesome because it makes you exponentially deadlier. The bigger your fleet is the faster it moves, so the easier it is to launch surprise attacks. of course this doesn't work against the damned dirty Hivers where you just have to rust the gate with everything you've got and hope for the best.
I hate when they kill my gates >:(
That's why I always have a couple of reverse ones per system :P
As a hiver player, I can say the best way to attack one (me in this case) is launching multiple small simultaneous attacks to various systems, coordinating their arrivals to a same turn. As I usually rely only on my Fleet for defense (full fleet anywhere I need, instantly), I dont get too much satellites. A multi front attack means that at least some systems will be rendered gateless (even the reserve gates would be killed, as they would enter combat without other ships to fight for them), and to a Hiver, a gateless system is a lost system
Another problem are Humans/Zuul with a planet too close to one of mine (and with a node in betwen), as those are 1 turn travel attacks, so I dont get the warning turn to move the fleet into position
Anyways, I think the Hiver have the best defense in the game (practically imposible to break without the way I mentioned above), which fits perfectly in my play style, overall defensive, with a slow but contant and focused agression.
Post by: motorbitch on January 13, 2011, 06:18:00 am
Quote
exactly, that's why they are my favorites second only to Hivers and their instant travel :p
the gates... blessig and curse of the hivers.
late game, i always find gate capacity to low to support sufficient large fleets, and one is screwed if facing attacks from multiple directions. especially vs human players, with will use sensor jammers and decoy fleets.
when i play hivers, i usualy end up using gates for defense only, and have my attack fleets slowboating to the target. due to the slow speed this requires verry large and focussed fleet, of cause.
the hivers excellent industrial output helps a lot here, but fleet mainainence costs are always a serious problem for me when playing the bugs.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 13, 2011, 09:21:41 am
In the late game, should it get there, they can have problems with unpredictable attacks. Pretty much everyone except the humans and other hivers can reach your worlds in one turn in a fairly unpredictable manner, as they can traverse the distance in only 1 turn.
Humans are just as fast, but you at least know what routes they can follow into your space.
And yeah, as mentioned, this can either be a problem through multi-pronged attacks, or a death fleet raping one specific target and overwhelming the defenses.
Granted, this is a threat for everyone, not just the Hivers, but it's a big deal for them since their rapid defense is otherwise a key advantage.
Now, if there's a significant buffer space or a good distance between worlds, their advantage stays pretty strong.
Post by: Omegastick on January 13, 2011, 01:06:51 pm
Post by: Shades on January 13, 2011, 01:33:22 pm
'kay, I'm at turn ~160 now with the Hivers and they have pretty much killed everything they have touched. My initial defence fleet (all destroyers with a repair cruiser attached later in the game) have single-handedly taken out a good chunk of the enemies army. Also, which is better? Heavy drivers or bursters?
Depends ;)
If your fighting smaller ships then bursters otherwise heavy drivers. As your talking about destroyers you might want to mix in a number of bursters and only a few drivers for crusier class.
Post by: Omegastick on January 13, 2011, 02:02:48 pm
Post by: Farseer on January 13, 2011, 02:22:41 pm
Post by: Rakonas on January 13, 2011, 04:36:32 pm
I can honestly say I have no idea how to play this game.Click on things until you get a response that you like. Repeat until more complex responses happen. After that, just roll with it.
Post by: Omegastick on January 13, 2011, 04:44:16 pm
I can honestly say I have no idea how to play this game.My advice is to play the tutorial.
Anyway, I can safely say that this is my new favourite game of the year, I just went through to around turn 220 without even taking over an enemy planet and then sent my huge force of dreadnoughts to eat him.
Post by: Krelian on January 13, 2011, 06:09:42 pm
Also, which is better? Heavy drivers or bursters?
HEAVY DRIVERS!!!!
Seriously, the most awesome weapon in the game. There may be some weapons with more accuracy, or better dps... but damn, seeing enemy ships spin out of control going backwards, only to die moments later, all from mega cannons on ships they cant even see yet.... is priceless
I can honestly say I have no idea how to play this game.
I guess you never played Moo, or Moo2.... any previous 4x experience at least?
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 13, 2011, 06:36:02 pm
Especially if you field like 50 of them.
Post by: Shadowlord on January 13, 2011, 06:45:39 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 13, 2011, 06:50:44 pm
You know what you should try? DF Racks. Just keep upgrading them as you keep teching up.DF Racks also get better with some ballistic tech. They're lots of fun.
Post by: motorbitch on January 13, 2011, 07:02:58 pm
Quote
HEAVY DRIVERS!!!!
Seriously, the most awesome weapon in the game.
i always found the fusion cannon to be the one most fortune changing tech in game.
early midgame, when one usually can not afford to put to much credits into weapons, they can put serious havoc onto the cr-mono-fleets the ai will feed you with.
but sure, its not the most awesome weapon in game. if i had to pick one? phaser-pd^^, i think. frees so many small mounts for dps weapons.
damage whise, an antimatter heavy cannon will never let you down. except the enemy has absorbers of cause. in this case, you´d be so totally screwed with am-hc
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 13, 2011, 07:06:20 pm
Post by: Lightning4 on January 14, 2011, 02:07:22 am
You know what you should try? DF Racks. Just keep upgrading them as you keep teching up.
I remember when DF racks used to work in strafe sections.
Zuul strafe cruisers with DF racks. The missile spray was GLORIOUS.
Shame they disallowed it. Probably because of lag reasons. Several of those cruisers firing at once was brutal on the framerate.
Post by: Moghjubar on January 14, 2011, 03:44:33 pm
Post by: Krelian on January 14, 2011, 04:35:12 pm
Just bought the collection for $20 (and shaved 2$ off by coupon hunting first), going to try it out; last 'real' space 4x I've played is MoO2 (3 doesn't count).
you will be happy. i like to think of it as Moo3 as it should have been.
Did you play Moo1?
I like to think of SotS as a mid point betwen Moo1 and 2. It have a moo2 style tech, ship building, and economy, but a moo1 style planet management. Its the perfect mix IMO, as in Moo2 planet (buildings) management would get a bit of overwhelming after having more than 10+ planets.
Battles are a bit like Moo2, but slow realtime instead of turns. You can pause to give better instructions anyways.
Races are not as differenciated as Moo2 IMO, but they do have diferent ways of traveling. Most races (morrigi, tarkas, and liir) use a variation of Moo2 travel, while Humans and zull use a Moo3 starlines travel style. Hivers uses portals.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2011, 01:37:59 am
Races are not as differenciated as Moo2 IMO, but they do have diferent ways of traveling. Most races (morrigi, tarkas, and liir) use a variation of Moo2 travel, while Humans and zull use a Moo3 starlines travel style. Hivers uses portals.:o
The races in SOTS have different FTL drive tech, different technology tree percentages, different voices and art, different ship styles, even different battle tactics and play styles. Liir ships circle like sharks, human ships turn for broadsides, tarkas ships just kinda charge right in like the lizard monkeys they are.
Tarkas use the only drive system which is close to Moo2, which is a warp system similar to star trek. You move at x speed between stars and that's it. While in warp you cannot communicate with the ships unless you research FTL Comms, so no changing orders until it drops out of warp.
Liir use a stutter drive which teleports the ship rapidly in small increments. It doesn't work efficiently near gravity wells, so the closer a liir fleet gets to a planet the slower they go. If you ever fight Liir in deep space, you will FEAR THE DOLPHINS. Theirs is the only reactionless drive as well, allowing them to change direction and speed in the blink of an eye. It's goddamn unnerving to see a Liir DN whip around and swat your destroyers out of the sky.
Hivers use STL drives to plant teleportation gates at other planets, but then have instant access to that planet any time from any other gate forever. (Until the gate blows up.) The gate network has an overall capacity which increases with the total number of gates.
Humans use 'cracks' in subspace which form naturally between stars. They can travel these lines very quickly, but they can ONLY travel along these lines, any other route requires super slow STL speeds. Incidentally, a human ship cannot refuel in node space, so you must have fuel available to travel the entire distance of a node line or you simply cannot go. Also, things live in nodespace which can attack you.
Zuul don't use the natural lines between stars but instead 'rip their way' through nodespace creating new nodelines wherever it suites them. These lines are unstable, and must be maintained, but they can be made anywhere the Zuul can reach.
Incidentally, Zuul are the only race with almost no diplomacy options. Zuul consume natural resources at a ridiculous pace, and can take slaves to do their construction work.
The only differences from one race to the next in Moo2 were the various traits, like a bonus to maintenance or research, or the ability to survive without food. There was literally nothing beyond traits and art which made them different.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 15, 2011, 03:15:37 am
There's also race-specific techs and abilities. Some are guaranteed, but most have a very high chance of appearing if not.
Liir get the most bonuses, but there's a small chance of not rolling some of them.
Post by: Krelian on January 15, 2011, 03:49:55 am
The only differences from one race to the next in Moo2 were the various traits, like a bonus to maintenance or research, or the ability to survive without food. There was literally nothing beyond traits and art which made them different.
yeah, I know about the drives differences, I was just being simplistic to not overwhelm the new player :p
about race diferenciation; I think you are really underestimating Moo2, it had great job in doing it.
I will make a list comparing both games in the "race differenciation" area. The opinions are my PERSONAL opinion, feel free to think diferent, and point in what, but dont flame me :p
Also, I must say I love SotS A LOT, and I also grow up playing Moo2. So I dont have a favorite betwen them. And it must be said, SotS had in Moo/Moo2 it greatest source of inspiration. But if I want to play today, I pick SotS, obviously.
Comparison of race diferenciation:
Tech wise:
-SotS have some race specific techs, and some races have different chances to get some tech that others. There is the "uncreative" zuul that can get like 50% of the techs in average, and the "creative" Liir with like 90% on most (or was it morrigi?). Races have different tech speed too. Tech tree is randomized as in requirements, and also, you are not garanteed to get every tech.
-Moo2 have a value on races that determines the tech speed, it works just as with SotS. More importantly, you would have to pick one of every 3 (on most cases) available techs. This would usually lead to have very different races from mid game onward. The tech tree is always the same tho, so there would be "perfect plans" for seasoned players (that's a point for SotS). The most fun part is that there is the special cases, Psilon with creative, and the Klackons uncreative. Psilons was the I got all techs race, and Klackons made every game different. SotS kinda make this as mentioned above, but it is just not the same thing.
Point for SotS.
Ship/Combat Wise:
-SotS: While almost all races have access to almost all ship parts, the version of every part is different from the other races in numbers. Some have more Hp, more Mounts, etc. But overall they have the same mechanics behind.
Thus, the diferenciation in the "balance" department, comes from the hull themselves. As with the weapons, im not sure, but I think every race do the same damage with a given weapon.
Also, there is a few weapons and parts unique for every race. This makes combat be very different in some cases.
And finally, the thing you mentioned; the ships behavior is different from race to race.
-Moo2: The differiation is mostly in the way of bonuses and numbers. Some races do more damage, some races dodge better, etc. But besided that, all races can get the same ships if the get the same techs (escept Klackon obviously). Still, to face some enemies, you need kinda special trats, specially in the early game. Combat Computers vs Akari from example. Also, as the combat is turn based, and all ships player piloted, there is no different behaviors betwen races.
This round is for SotS, but by a small margin.
-Special Wise:
This is where, IMO, Moo2 get ahead and surpases SotS.
-SotS: Tree words; Space Travel Diversity!. Every race have a different way to travel. I wont go further, as you already explained everything perfectly. Just one addition; as I said in my previous post, while EVERY way of travel is diferent, you could divide them into 3 "families". The "direct" travel ones (liir, tarkas, and morrigi), the "starlane" ones (zuul and humans), and the "special" ones (Hiver). The direct ones all travel like in Moo2, albeit, with some special features in the case of morrigi (the more ships, more speed) and liir (slower near stars, faster away from them). Anyways, this is a HUGE point for SotS over Moo2.
But there is nothing more... well, some race get better bonus on commerce (morrigi) other get better pop grow rate (hiver), etc, but overall, those are only numbers thing, and not distinctive game mechanics.
-Moo2: Well, besides the ability to make a personalised race (HUGE!!), while most of the "race skills" were in the form of numeric bonuses, there were some special ones that shined a lot. Like the Subterranean Shakras, all planet get double size, making them powerhouses later in the game; Elerian's telephathy, that allowed them to get enemy planets unscrached, and without needing troops and boarding ships at all, and use right away captured ships; and Onmicient, they get to see the whole map!; The Psilons and Klackons tech features as mentioned earlier; the Melkars cybernethic, and even more the Silicoids Lithovore, giving them no need for food (thus changing a lot the play style of the game!). Those are clearly not just "numeric traits", but whole special mechanics behind.
Big point for Moo2.
To sum up, IMO, I feel the races from Moo2 get more personality; you really fell the stronger economy and industry behind a Shakras neighbor for example, or the perfect ships from psilons enemies, and the stealty attacks from Darlocks. While in SotS, while YOUR race feels very diferent if you pick another one in a second game, the enemies all fell a bit like the same, beside humans some times not always attacking the nearest planet. In combat the diferent models and slighty diferent behaviors gives them more personality, but I think Moo2 still get the upper hand overall.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 15, 2011, 07:23:32 am
Post by: Shadowlord on January 15, 2011, 08:12:07 am
Unless they can one-shot our ships, or immediately retreat, they don't stand a chance. We close within range and tractor them, and then slide alongside and send over marines, taking over their ships. In a few turns, their entire navy has been assimilated, and we assimilate their homeworlds just as quickly - we need only one ship to telepathically conquer it instantly with no ground combat.
With this kind of species, the best thing that can happen to you is for the Antarans to attempt to attack you - because your troopers, if you've been researching troop-enhancing techs, will actually stand a good chance of defeating them in a boarding action (possibly requiring multiple boarding actions from multiple ships) and taking over their ships, and the only thing stopping you is the Antaran self-destruct feature (which only goes off some of the time when a ship is captured). Take an antaran ship or two and scrap it, and you've got yourself a few super-advanced techs. Not that you needed them when nobody can stop your fleet already.
Effectively, this species design is the Borg. The unbalanced custom species designs are the hallmark of Master of Orion II, effectively, and probably a large part of why SotS doesn't have custom species designing. There's also the fact that SotS's species have a ton of flavor and customization (their FTL drives, for instance, are each unique) which would be impossible or unlikely to occur with custom species.
Post by: Pnx on January 15, 2011, 11:19:09 am
The best way to counteract that is to get into shields, they get good percentages with shields, and in fact they get an exclusive shield tech that leads off from shield magnifier.
Is it just me or are the Morrigi overpowered? They seem to have decent ships, and get can get really fast fleets, AND get the best tech percentages at everything... oh and they also get better drones...
Post by: Empty on January 15, 2011, 11:55:47 am
You can easily strip a useless planet of it's resources and drop them off at any of your own planet.
My homeworld already has 12000ish resources :P
Post by: Cheese on January 15, 2011, 12:23:06 pm
Post by: Empty on January 15, 2011, 12:34:36 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2011, 12:50:42 pm
I wish the games difficulty wasn't less/more resource based.You can adjust that iirc, in fact there is a tourney type map which has every planet identical.
Post by: Empty on January 15, 2011, 01:09:49 pm
I wish the games difficulty wasn't less/more resource based.You can adjust that iirc, in fact there is a tourney type map which has every planet identical.
I meant easy enemies get 50% less income and output.
Hard enemies get 50% more income and output.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 15, 2011, 01:15:48 pm
Oh, yeah that is a common practice. Its unfortunate, but most computer AI cannot stand up to a human's mind without some kind of cheat.I wish the games difficulty wasn't less/more resource based.You can adjust that iirc, in fact there is a tourney type map which has every planet identical.
I meant easy enemies get 50% less income and output.
Hard enemies get 50% more income and output.
Post by: Deon on January 15, 2011, 03:04:05 pm
Look for example at vanilla Civ4 AI and Master of Mana AI (a mod of Fall from Heaven with a totally new AI written by a signle person). There is a HUGE difference.
Post by: Rakonas on January 15, 2011, 03:06:54 pm
It's a problem of the AI programmers mostly :P. They made this myth so popular that everyone uses it.QFT
Look for example at vanilla Civ4 AI and Master of Mana AI (a mod of Fall from Heaven with a totally new AI written by a signle person). There is a HUGE difference.
Post by: Shades on January 15, 2011, 07:30:38 pm
The AI for Master of Mana is more aggressive that Civ 4 but it's still not very good. Writing a good AI is really hard, writing one that can cheat without being noticed is easier. The probably I find is most games companies try to write an AI that can play the game rather than writing one that is part of the game and is there to challenge and entertain the player. The latter problem being orders of magnitude easier in most cases.
(Although to be fair Civ 4 is more modable than most games in this way)
Post by: Krelian on January 17, 2011, 11:30:33 pm
Also, which is better? Heavy drivers or bursters?
HEAVY DRIVERS!!!!
Seriously, the most awesome weapon in the game. There may be some weapons with more accuracy, or better dps... but damn, seeing enemy ships spin out of control going backwards, only to die moments later, all from mega cannons on ships they cant even see yet.... is priceless
OMG I was totally confusing weapons. I was thinking in Accelerator Amplification when I said that !!
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 22, 2011, 12:30:22 pm
Gotterdammerung! That place is ridiculous! Well, the first attack with a single dreadnought was doomed to fail anyway, but it allowed me to see that a single ship is going to be very vulnerable regardless of anything. So, I tried the inverse - an Armada CnC (with a bonus, adding up to 62 points I think), and a metric crapload (30, to be precise) of Emitter-armed destroyers. The idea was that the small fry distract the saucers while the CnC guns down the big hulk nearby. For what it was worth, it worked - the VN drones had no chance against a massive swarm of tiny angry thundergods that spread destruction everywhere. A few torpedo blasts later, the hulk went down, the swarm (mine for a change) eventually ripped up the saucers, and... happily went sideways. Turns out there's a whole set of these things! While the CnC was busy navigating the asteroid field, the swarm was massacred, and then the CnC sank as well. Damn. I guess the tactic works, I just need even more destroyers, and at least some weapon variety on them (mass drivers would work).
Also, can anybody offer a strategy against a system killer? I suspect it's killable, but a concentrated attack of six dreadnoughts and a few cruisers barely scratched it (though not seeing HP doesn't help).
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 22, 2011, 12:52:52 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 22, 2011, 01:13:10 pm
Post by: Omegastick on January 22, 2011, 04:23:38 pm
Post by: Shadowgandor on January 22, 2011, 04:34:28 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 22, 2011, 05:16:21 pm
I think you need one expansion pack to make the other work, so I guess Born in Blood :PI honestly don't know if that's true, you'd have to do some research. I've always installed them in order.
That said, the complete collection is like 20 bucks.
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection
Post by: Omegastick on January 22, 2011, 05:28:00 pm
Post by: Zai on January 22, 2011, 08:03:36 pm
I've gone for Born in Blood, I'm getting them one at a time so that I stretch this game out as much as possible.Eh, I've gotten 80+ hours out of the game just counting the time I've spent after installing ANY. All you're doing by buying them one at a time is allowing you to have less fun as opposed to buying the Complete Collection. Also, it's more expensive to buy them one at a time (from GamersGate: $10 for base SotS, $15 for BoB, $20(!) for AMoC, and $5 for ANY, as compared to just $20 for the Complete Collection including everything plus exclusive stuff).
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 23, 2011, 12:35:26 am
In the meantime, the system killer ate four more worlds (and two colonies of mine :'() before thankfully moving off. I couldn't kill it even with a (last-ditch) coordinated effort of seven cutting-edge dreads and a dozen cruisers. If it comes again, I'll try to swarm it with AM torpedo frigates.
A subsequent attempt to assault the VN homeworld with some more of those dreads was met with failure because all the berserkers in the system suddenly decided to cluster together and ram themselves into the attack force. While they were all destroyed, there was no hope defeating the mass of saucers they left behind, and I was forced to have my last two vessels retreat - through frigging normal space. It'll take them twenty turns to return. I'm now researching shields and advanced drones - let's see if I can best VN on his field.
And my ally added to my troubles by having his resident AI rebel on him. This guy called Spencer took about a third of the human's empire into his own - thankfully, that's on the far side of the arm, so unless the human completely loses I'm safe. This game just keeps getting more interesting.
Post by: Greiger on January 23, 2011, 09:28:44 am
I killed it at exactly the same time the screen whited out (I saw it breaking up right before it) I still lost the planet, and the remains of the fleet, but the Systemkiller was gone. Shortly after I found the VN homeworld and couldn't figure out how to kill that moon factory. Since nothing could target it and it was the last thing remaining.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2011, 10:37:50 am
And my ally added to my troubles by having his resident AI rebel on him. This guy called Spencer took about a third of the human's empire into his own - thankfully, that's on the far side of the arm, so unless the human completely loses I'm safe. This game just keeps getting more interesting.No no no, do not ignore the AI rebellion. An AI can colonize any planet regardless of climate without paying upkeep, and they get ridiculous bonuses to building ships and such. Not to mention all of their ships have the AI fire control section, so they're hellish accurate.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 23, 2011, 01:29:58 pm
In my new game, I'm trying out the Morrigi. They've got an interesting ship setup, with the mission section up front, and their ships seem quite agile. I'm having fun with their drone techs, too. Haven't met a single real enemy yet though, but I did waste a few Swarm infestations and a queen, as well as capture two monitors, so I guess I'm doing good so far. :)
A question for the future - is it possible to have a constant net gain of morale? People are happy if you keep savings above a million, but are equally unhappy about "population restrictions", so morale tends to stay at the same level, and drops steadily if Temperance is ever needed.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 23, 2011, 01:46:09 pm
The Liir drug thing means they researched addiction for your race. You can do the same to them if you go up the liir species research tree.
Post by: Lightning4 on January 23, 2011, 01:51:37 pm
Police cutters are what you're looking for though. They negate a point of negative morale from any bad event. Population limit morale events and such will simply no longer apply at a planet a police cutter is at. They need a couple somewhat midgame techs but they're cheap to build once you get them.
Post by: Shadowlord on January 23, 2011, 04:11:05 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 24, 2011, 12:05:09 am
Post by: Shadowlord on January 24, 2011, 12:56:48 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 24, 2011, 01:26:27 am
That's what I dislike about the "tech tree" research system. Unless you know what comes after what, you basically have to hope the designers share the same notion of "common sense" that you do. I'd never have thought FTL broadband would be a requirement for establishing a police force, or trade routes.
Post by: Shades on January 24, 2011, 05:55:06 am
Post by: Shadowlord on January 24, 2011, 06:21:02 am
http://sots.rorschach.net/images/8/87/SOTS_ANY_1.7.1_techtree_v1.4.png
Deep scan, for instance, can save your ass by letting you see enemy fleets coming from much farther away, and letting you see what's in them. I never even knew about deep scan until a couple months ago, because it's on some branch I never thought to research. You get it from Advanced Sensors, and first need Integrated Sensors to research that. In my case, I never even bothered to research Integrated Sensors, since it didn't appear to do anything useful. You also need Integrated Sensors to research Data Correlation, which allows you to see what every ship you've run into has on it for technology.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2011, 06:35:58 am
Several of the techs are like that. This (plus http://sots.rorschach.net in general) may be useful:Data Correlation along with some other techs will let you build a database of observed human/zuul nodelines as well.
http://sots.rorschach.net/images/8/87/SOTS_ANY_1.7.1_techtree_v1.4.png
Deep scan, for instance, can save your ass by letting you see enemy fleets coming from much farther away, and letting you see what's in them. I never even knew about deep scan until a couple months ago, because it's on some branch I never thought to research. You get it from Advanced Sensors, and first need Integrated Sensors to research that. In my case, I never even bothered to research Integrated Sensors, since it didn't appear to do anything useful. You also need Integrated Sensors to research Data Correlation, which allows you to see what every ship you've run into has on it for technology.
Post by: motorbitch on January 24, 2011, 07:00:13 am
and albeit its true that the fact, that comunication leads to frighters its not clearly in the description of the techtree, these features where explained in the manuals of the expansions that featured them. in case your "distributions" came without manuals, you can download them from kerberos. just search the forums.
Post by: Shades on January 24, 2011, 07:20:45 am
wait, advanced sensors allow to build sensor ships? now thats surprising.
and albeit its true that the fact, that comunication leads to frighters its not clearly in the description of the techtree, these features where explained in the manuals of the expansions that featured them. in case your "distributions" came without manuals, you can download them from kerberos. just search the forums.
FLT communication doesn't lead to freighters, it leads to FLT broadband which in turn leads to freighters which was the point he was making. The fact the manual (not a physical manual on digital "distributions" such as steam...) has this information isn't much help, as who reads manuals anyway, and yes there is information on the forum or the wiki but 99% of players will never go to either.
The game is great, and I keep going back and play it again and again, issues like this don't effect most of the forum posters here because we are in that 1%, but don't defend a bad design choice because of that.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2011, 07:31:40 am
Post by: Frumple on January 24, 2011, 07:56:40 am
I think FTL Communication is a tarkas only tech which allows you to give orders to fleets that are in warp.Um... what? Taking a half second to look at that tech tree .png would tell you FTL comms is the basic C3 tech. Everyone gets it.
You're thinking of hyper-link communications, which is the only tarkas only C3 tech.
Post by: Shades on January 24, 2011, 09:41:18 am
I think FTL Communication is a tarkas only tech which allows you to give orders to fleets that are in warp.
Props for the avatar there.
Post by: Empty on January 24, 2011, 09:50:33 am
Isn't laser point defense always better then the gauss cannon point defense due to their higher accuracy?
What's the deal with that?
Post by: Shades on January 24, 2011, 10:17:22 am
What's the deal with point defense?
Isn't laser point defense always better then the gauss cannon point defense due to their higher accuracy?
What's the deal with that?
They do about 5 to 6 times more damage which is handy against torpedoes which lasers don't kill very fast, and they have twice the range so fire earlier and despite firing slower can get more shots in. However I would agree to the benefits being marginal enough that lasers are better overall.
Post by: Empty on January 24, 2011, 10:40:46 am
I should have paid more attention :P
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 24, 2011, 04:04:49 pm
Yes, I misremembered. Thank you.I think FTL Communication is a tarkas only tech which allows you to give orders to fleets that are in warp.Um... what? Taking a half second to look at that tech tree .png would tell you FTL comms is the basic C3 tech. Everyone gets it.
You're thinking of hyper-link communications, which is the only tarkas only C3 tech.
Post by: Krelian on January 30, 2011, 10:20:46 am
Guys, if I only have the money for one expansion pack then which should I get?
Im afraid this could be a little late, but the whole collection is for $7 UDS here (http://www.gameplayoutlet.com/us_store/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection-14.html)
Post by: Omegastick on January 30, 2011, 11:01:32 am
Guys, if I only have the money for one expansion pack then which should I get?
Im afraid this could be a little late, but the whole collection is for $7 UDS here (http://www.gameplayoutlet.com/us_store/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection-14.html)
I've already bought 'Born of Blood' but that is still cheaper than the other DLCs put together, I will buy it!
EDIT: Aw, it's hardcopy only...
Post by: BigD145 on January 30, 2011, 01:35:05 pm
EDIT: Aw, it's hardcopy only...
REALLY?! :o
Post by: Omegastick on February 07, 2011, 04:06:44 pm
Post by: Empty on February 07, 2011, 04:52:20 pm
Look for a yellow arrow pointing to the right.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 07, 2011, 04:54:29 pm
Post by: Omegastick on February 07, 2011, 05:01:37 pm
There are options for it in the races screen.What races screen? I've looked on the diplomacy screen and just about every other screen I can find but can't find any arrow pointing to the right.
Look for a yellow arrow pointing to the right.
Also you can't do diplomacy until you research the languages of the race in question I believe.Yeah, I've got the first two languages of the race researched and 'Incorporate Hiver'.
Post by: Tres_Huevos on February 07, 2011, 07:38:56 pm
I've circled the thing you need to click in red. If you don't have those arrows, perhaps you had alliances turned off in the game setup? That was my problem in my first game.
A question of my own: How do you send a science mission to an ally? I can't for the life of me figure it out.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 07, 2011, 07:41:35 pm
A question of my own: How do you send a science mission to an ally? I can't for the life of me figure it out.IIRC it's located under the same menu where you would send them money, but only once you research all 3 language techs for them.
Post by: Tres_Huevos on February 07, 2011, 07:47:57 pm
Ah, yup, there it is. I've looked at that page three or four times before, specifically to try and find that, but missed it every time.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 08, 2011, 05:29:32 am
Post by: Omegastick on February 08, 2011, 11:36:27 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 08, 2011, 02:01:23 pm
My goal right now is get the Dreadnaught COL, with Cracker rounds. From what I gathered, a single shot of that thing will spray out effing eighty mines! (twenty, times four COLs on the Morrigi 'naut) I just want to SEE that thing fire. If all else fails, several 'nauts volley-firing packs of 32 heavy drones won't be a bad sight either. Too bad my strategies fail horribly most of the time. I really like them drones.
Post by: Omegastick on February 08, 2011, 03:32:43 pm
Now he's almost out of the game, but I don't trust the AI any more...
Post by: Krelian on February 08, 2011, 03:35:24 pm
My goal right now is get the Dreadnaught COL, with Cracker rounds. From what I gathered, a single shot of that thing will spray out effing eighty mines! (twenty, times four COLs on the Morrigi 'naut) I just want to SEE that thing fire.
wow, I have never attempted that! Even better try a flagship with 3 of those dreadnaughts for 240 mines a shot xDD
If you do that dread, please post pics of it shotting :D
Post by: Krelian on February 08, 2011, 03:37:07 pm
Man, the AI is a bitch. I have a NAP with two human empires, one of them begins to pile loads of ships on my colonies so I figure it'd be better to get in this alliance. I give them a bunch of money and protect them whenever necessary but they simply refuse to be in an alliance with me! Anyway, after all this one of them just cancels our NAP and simultaneously attacks most of my colonies.
Now he's almost out of the game, but I don't trust the AI any more...
yeah the AI is usually not very trustworty, unless it is the same species as you
Post by: Empty on February 08, 2011, 04:00:40 pm
It's easy.
The more you defeat the ai the more it likes you.
:P
Post by: Greiger on February 08, 2011, 04:21:53 pm
I never had to send money or research to get an alliance, and although I'll occasionally send a few ships to help a NAP if asked, it's rarely more than just a handful of extended ranges and I won't go out of my way to do it. Doesn't seem to matter what you send as long as you send something.
Also if you can't do something they ask, saying sorry seems to help matters. Apparently the AI actually responds to those communication options intelligently.
Post by: Omegastick on February 08, 2011, 04:52:18 pm
I mainly play Hivers, but have tried every race at some point or another, and find that they are useless. They can't be attached to a tanker because that would make their range pointless and they are just going to have to be scuttled when you get to your destination. I find it much better to just send a tanker (coupled with a gate, in the Hiver case) and whatever else you need over there (a colonizer and some armour if you're exploring).
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 08, 2011, 05:34:35 pm
Also, tried that Dreaded COL thing. Can't post screens - they turned out garbled, maybe because I play widescreen. Anyway, it was rather less intimidating than I expected. With just Leap Mines, the COLs were a lot like guided cluster buckshot. One round is enough to decapitate a Human cruiser, but overall they're not effective, perhaps because the Leaps tend to stay together after release. Researching Implosion mines now (well, Gravity mines. Let's hope I get Implosion), they're 15 per round for a total of 60 per recharge, but their effects should be rather more pronounced. I'll also make a test Flock dread and see if blasts of expendable drones are better than the discrete option.
By the way, if you don't mind micromanaging, standard Flock COL Cruisers can be a rather devastating weapon. Since the COL can be fired manually and fires along the ship's axis, you can fire it ahead of yourself while fleeing - and still have the drones double back and give the pursuers the well-deserved pounding. Add in some quality shields and phaser PD, and you've got the coward's ultimate weapon. Whether or not it was intended, but Morrigi cruisers are especially suited to that one, having a narrow-arc Heavy Turret, facing backward, on their AM engine section.
(well, I guess a fleeing Minelayer can be a bit of a nuisance as well, but the drone COL is less predictable)
Post by: Krelian on February 08, 2011, 05:43:04 pm
Normal drones, you get the same number as the COL, but only once per fight. But they are more durable and can fire longer without refuel.
As I see it, the COL drones will never survive long enought to be alive by the time the second wave of COL drones can be used.
Anyways, drones are kinda useless after the enemy get PD phasers, or Interceptor missiles, they really overshot with those defensive weapons.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 08, 2011, 05:49:05 pm
And if the going gets really tough (such as, you don't have ways of dealing with PD), then COL drones will be preferable to normal ones. At least you don't have to replace them, and depending on race, a single COL round will be equivalent to a dozen or half-dozen medium cannon turrets sent to fire smack dab into your enemy's face. For example, antimatter cannon turrets.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 08, 2011, 06:41:58 pm
I actually volley fire them in a method that my friend claims is cheating. I do the same with assault shuttles.
Take many many cruisers with drones or shuttles and a single large cnc ship. Have the cruisers launch their drones/shuttles and then retreat to the back of the line immediately. Repeat this until every single cruiser has launched drones or shuttles, then move in with your actual combat craft and fight.
Take half a dozen repair cruisers and you can even rebuild the lost drones/shuttles between rounds (they're destroyed as they can't land on their mothership using this method)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 09, 2011, 12:37:36 am
I LOVE the COL with the drone rounds. LOVE IT.You can even repeat that tactic with COL launchers, though I'm not sure if they can cycle back before their weapons reload. I'm sure this technique is very fun for humans, though not with drones but with Node Missiles. Pack a hundred along with an Armada CnC, waltz in, set everything to autofire. Since the things count as destroyed the moment they launch...
I actually volley fire them in a method that my friend claims is cheating. I do the same with assault shuttles.
Take many many cruisers with drones or shuttles and a single large cnc ship. Have the cruisers launch their drones/shuttles and then retreat to the back of the line immediately. Repeat this until every single cruiser has launched drones or shuttles, then move in with your actual combat craft and fight.
Take half a dozen repair cruisers and you can even rebuild the lost drones/shuttles between rounds (they're destroyed as they can't land on their mothership using this method)
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 09, 2011, 05:23:52 am
Post by: Krelian on February 09, 2011, 08:50:16 pm
http://www.moddb.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-2/videos/sword-of-the-stars-ii-trailer (http://www.moddb.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-2/videos/sword-of-the-stars-ii-trailer)
Post by: Orb on February 10, 2011, 07:14:14 am
New SotS2 video
http://www.moddb.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-2/videos/sword-of-the-stars-ii-trailer (http://www.moddb.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-2/videos/sword-of-the-stars-ii-trailer)
:o
Well, there isn't a doubt in my mind I'm not getting this at launch or sometime soon after.
For those who don't plan to watch the video for whatever reasons:
1. Obviously there is a new race, the ancient race the game mentions a few times.
2. Looks like a new engine(game engine), but maybe not. Might just be revamped graphics.
3. Paradox entertainment took part in the making of this game, I know they have a history of good games, at least ones I liked.
4. A larger ship hull than the dreadnought? Maybe I've never compared a destroyer to a dreadnought, but some of those ships are quite huge.....
Post by: Zai on February 10, 2011, 08:29:22 am
1. Obviously there is a new race, the ancient race the game mentions a few times.Been known for quite a while that they'd be in the game. The game (pre-expansions, at least) will only have 6 factions though, just like AMoC/ANY SotS.
3. Paradox entertainment took part in the making of this game, I know they have a history of good games, at least ones I liked.I'm pretty sure Paradox is still just the publisher. Kerberos are still as far as I know the only people working on the development of the game. Paradox gets their name in there because they're the publisher.
4. A larger ship hull than the dreadnought? Maybe I've never compared a destroyer to a dreadnought, but some of those ships are quite huge.....Leviathans (class bigger than dreads) have also been known about for quite a while (at least a year now). The plan for destroyers in SotS2 (as of fall 2010 at least) was being carried into battle as if they were heavier drones (the justification being that SotS2's modern FTL drives can't fit on Destroyers, if memory serves).
Also, apparently the release date is planned for September 2, 2011 (the tail end of summer, which is why it said summer 2011 in the video).
Post by: Cajoes on February 10, 2011, 09:27:53 am
And to be quite frank, I can understand this reasoning. Piddly weapon-hardpoints, abysmal armor, even with massive upgrades... I rarely bother using them for more than spreading out the incoming damage if the AI is using heavy hitting stuff or distractions: And mind you, they're spent rapidly.
Post by: Zai on February 10, 2011, 10:39:59 am
I thought the justification was basicly that destroyers don't last long enough to warrant a independent FTL drive system.I don't remember exactly what the justification for Destroyer Riders is in SotS2. But they're in the game regardless of the justification.
And to be quite frank, I can understand this reasoning. Piddly weapon-hardpoints, abysmal armor, even with massive upgrades... I rarely bother using them for more than spreading out the incoming damage if the AI is using heavy hitting stuff or distractions: And mind you, they're spent rapidly.
But in SotS, I like using some Destroyers (say, 6 active Destroyers in a fleet) even after I get Dreads (which I typically rush for). They are speedy (when compared to larger classes) and hard to hit. If you're using Destroyers that can use heavier weapons, it's quite fun. They can move around the field tearing down ships while your larger ships do greater damage (Cruisers/Dreads using Railguns, Cutting Beams, and (Pulsed) Graviton Beams mainly). I also typically prefer 3 Cruisers over a single Dread, as 3 Cruisers can move quicker than a Dread can with approximately the same amount of firepower.
Post by: Cheese on February 10, 2011, 11:47:15 am
New SotS2 videoSots 2 looks seriously awesome.
http://www.moddb.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-2/videos/sword-of-the-stars-ii-trailer (http://www.moddb.com/games/sword-of-the-stars-2/videos/sword-of-the-stars-ii-trailer)
Post by: Krelian on February 10, 2011, 03:31:24 pm
1. Obviously there is a new race, the ancient race the game mentions a few times.
The sul'ka, makers of the Zuul, enslavers of the Liir, and the ones that destroyed the ancient morrigui empire.
2. Looks like a new engine(game engine), but maybe not. Might just be revamped graphics.
It is a new engine, that's confirmed.
3. Paradox entertainment took part in the making of this game, I know they have a history of good games, at least ones I liked.
Im not sure, but there is a problem with paradox games (developed by them) ... they are always released as betas (full of serious bugs)
I preffer if kerberos did this alone, and paradox only publishes
4. A larger ship hull than the dreadnought? Maybe I've never compared a destroyer to a dreadnought, but some of those ships are quite huge.....
as Zai said, Leviathans, 3 times bigger than dreads. Destroyers are downgraded to 'system defense ships' tho.
Some extra material for the eye
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Orb on February 10, 2011, 03:46:49 pm
Also, how would a system defense ship work? No upkeep? Spawned at the beginning of a battle? Controlled by the AI?
Post by: Krelian on February 10, 2011, 04:02:44 pm
They are just the publisher then, since you guys know more than me.
Also, how would a system defense ship work? No upkeep? Spawned at the beginning of a battle? Controlled by the AI?
there have not been much details about it, but Im guessing it will be like mobile defense plataforms :S
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 10, 2011, 04:29:27 pm
Post by: Cheese on February 10, 2011, 05:10:52 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 11, 2011, 06:40:13 am
Whatever the case, the justification that "new FTL drives don't fit on them" is really, really weak. I mean, can't old FTL drives still be used? As to their usefulness in late-game, well, I guess none of you tried to make cheap damage soaks out of them, with level 4 shields, pulse phaser strafe sections, and phaser PD. Those shields, with a shield amp, can take an alpha-strike from a dreadnaught and keep working. So, you have a flock of cheap ships that are much tougher than destroyers have any right to be, that also pack a halfdecent punch. If your enemy attacks them, that's less damage to your main fleet. If he doesn't, that's his own lookout, pulse phasers can be nasty, and the medium mount(s) on the engine section won't be idling either (using, say, AM cannons). Great solution for an initial skirmish wave or fleet size padding between dreads.They are just the publisher then, since you guys know more than me.
Also, how would a system defense ship work? No upkeep? Spawned at the beginning of a battle? Controlled by the AI?
there have not been much details about it, but Im guessing it will be like mobile defense plataforms :S
Can't forget things like node missiles either, will those be left out as well?
I'm suspecting it'll be mostly a nomenclature change. Cruisers will be as destroyers are in SotS1, Leviathans will be as dreads are, and destroyers... hell, I don't know. Giving them a role as system defense fleets could be a good idea, especially if they aren't allowed FTL drives, but I really can't see a reason to be limiting them like that. Sure, their use late-game is limited (tell that to people defeating Ortgay with a platoon of DE minelayers), but early-game they are a cheap and cheerful method of scouting out the map and probing for encounters without risking the expensive ships.
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 11, 2011, 06:59:56 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 11, 2011, 07:55:15 am
Also:
Six factions? With the Suul'ka added, which will be thrown out? Going by the available previews, it's not Humans, Liir, Hivers, Zuul, or Morrigi. So, Tarka? I wonder why. They're the last race I'd expect to get wiped out by... just about anything, Suul'ka included. Well, maybe beside humans, for plot reasons.1. Obviously there is a new race, the ancient race the game mentions a few times.Been known for quite a while that they'd be in the game. The game (pre-expansions, at least) will only have 6 factions though, just like AMoC/ANY SotS.
Post by: Empty on February 11, 2011, 08:12:38 am
They'd be like the Tarka battle riders, then. I haven't built them yet, so I don't know if they're manually controlled. In any case, I'd at least like a stronger justification for stripping destroyers of FTL capability.
Also:Six factions? With the Suul'ka added, which will be thrown out? Going by the available previews, it's not Humans, Liir, Hivers, Zuul, or Morrigi. So, Tarka? I wonder why. They're the last race I'd expect to get wiped out by... just about anything, Suul'ka included. Well, maybe beside humans, for plot reasons.1. Obviously there is a new race, the ancient race the game mentions a few times.Been known for quite a while that they'd be in the game. The game (pre-expansions, at least) will only have 6 factions though, just like AMoC/ANY SotS.
You're looking at it in the wrong way.
They still need some races to probably (re-)introduce in any expansion packs ;)
Post by: Lightning4 on February 11, 2011, 08:22:13 am
Am I the only one who confuses the Hiver ships in the trailers for Tarka ones? They look basically like a blend of the two species' ships from the first game.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 11, 2011, 08:32:29 am
Also, Empty, that'd be plain cheap.
Post by: Metalax on February 11, 2011, 08:42:00 am
If one species was to be removed as a top level species, the Zuul being subsumed into the forces of the Suul'ka would make the most sense from a backstory perspective.
Post by: Krelian on February 11, 2011, 09:21:35 pm
I'm suspecting it'll be mostly a nomenclature change. Cruisers will be as destroyers are in SotS1, Leviathans will be as dreads are, and destroyers... hell, I don't know. Giving them a role as system defense fleets could be a good idea, especially if they aren't allowed FTL drives, but I really can't see a reason to be limiting them like that. Sure, their use late-game is limited (tell that to people defeating Ortgay with a platoon of DE minelayers), but early-game they are a cheap and cheerful method of scouting out the map and probing for encounters without risking the expensive ships.
EXACTLY what I am fearing pal. I fear destroyers are now how they call drones. In fact, they have said there will be "destroyer-carrier ships"
Post by: Zai on February 11, 2011, 09:58:32 pm
No, no. Six factions, not races. There's 7 races (at least in base SotS2). There are 6 different...unions(? another word for faction) of these races. I believe Kerberos confirmed a while back (back when I was paying attention; Kerberos provided too few answers for my attention to be kept) that Tarka were in the game individually and whatever-Morrigi's-racial-conglomeration (mainly Morrigi, which is why you get the obviously-Morrigi-looking ships) is called were in the game, and hinted that Zuul was being split so that they had no uniquely racial ships (as Lightning4 said, part joining up with the Liir, part joining back up with the Suul'ka).Six factions? With the Suul'ka added, which will be thrown out? Going by the available previews, it's not Humans, Liir, Hivers, Zuul, or Morrigi. So, Tarka? I wonder why. They're the last race I'd expect to get wiped out by... just about anything, Suul'ka included. Well, maybe beside humans, for plot reasons.1. Obviously there is a new race, the ancient race the game mentions a few times.Been known for quite a while that they'd be in the game. The game (pre-expansions, at least) will only have 6 factions though, just like AMoC/ANY SotS.
[PPE:] According to somebody else who has been paying more attention than I (and I don't care to double check): the Tarka, Morrigi Empire (with split-offs from other races), Hivers, Humans, Liir/Zuul, Suul'ka/Zuul is the confirmed faction set-up for the base game, with another 2(+? I doubt they'd limit themselves if there's still demand for more and more can be justified in the SotS2-updated back-story) factions to be added in hypothetical expansions (though that last bit seems more like speculation based on SotS's expansion history).
Post by: Krelian on February 11, 2011, 10:24:12 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 12, 2011, 12:41:52 am
No, not quite "drones" per se, like I said, they'll probably be like the Tarka Battle Riders - the Hunter-F, and Hunter-A STL cruisers, carried into battle by dreadnaughts. The primary difference from drones is an ungodly amount of firepower (well compared to a typical DN drone loadout anyway), and the fact that they can't be replaced by simple repair ships - they'll need crew.I'm suspecting it'll be mostly a nomenclature change. Cruisers will be as destroyers are in SotS1, Leviathans will be as dreads are, and destroyers... hell, I don't know. Giving them a role as system defense fleets could be a good idea, especially if they aren't allowed FTL drives, but I really can't see a reason to be limiting them like that. Sure, their use late-game is limited (tell that to people defeating Ortgay with a platoon of DE minelayers), but early-game they are a cheap and cheerful method of scouting out the map and probing for encounters without risking the expensive ships.
EXACTLY what I am fearing pal. I fear destroyers are now how they call drones. In fact, they have said there will be "destroyer-carrier ships"
By the way, a justification that would be fine by me would include renaming the destroyers "frigates", because seriously, that's what they are - "destroyers" already sounds like a capital ship, and capital ships don't need rides into battle. Also, they wouldn't be "carried" as much as they'd "take a ride" - say, a frigate or two can dock with any non-specialized CR+ ship, and travel with its FTL capability. Specialized ships would carry double or triple the amount a non-specialized ship can take along. It'd be fine by me because that's the way it's been all the way since Homeworld - frigates are sub-capital "big ships", incapable of FTL travel by themselves, but happily utilizing the supercapitals' ability to hyperspace.
Post by: Rakonas on February 12, 2011, 12:53:24 am
Eh, I disagree. Destroyer doesn't sound at all like a capital ship to me, the game has a kind of WW1/2 ship range. Destroyers are pretty weak scout ships that rarely operate detached from the main fleet, cruisers are built for ship-ship combat, and Dreadnoughts are hulks of war.
By the way, a justification that would be fine by me would include renaming the destroyers "frigates", because seriously, that's what they are - "destroyers" already sounds like a capital ship, and capital ships don't need rides into battle.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 12, 2011, 03:09:32 am
Quote
In naval terminology, a destroyer is a fast and maneuverable yet long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet, convoy or battle group and defend them against smaller, powerful, short-range attackers.
...
At the dawn of the 21st Century, destroyers are the heaviest surface combatant ships in general use... ...are equivalent in tonnage but vastly superior in firepower to cruisers of the World War II era, capable of carrying nuclear missiles.
Quote
Modern frigates are related to earlier frigates only by name. The term "frigate" was readopted during World War II by the Royal Navy to describe a new type of anti-submarine escort vessel that was larger than a corvette, but smaller than a destroyer. The frigate was introduced to remedy some of the shortcomings inherent in the corvette design: limited armament, a hull form not suited to open-ocean work, a single shaft which limited speed and maneuverability, and a lack of range.
...
The frigate possessed less offensive firepower and speed than a destroyer, but such qualities were not required for anti-submarine warfare. Submarines were slow, and ASDIC sets did not operate effectively at speeds of over 20 knots. Rather, the frigate was an austere and weatherly vessel suitable for mass-construction and fitted with the latest innovations in anti-submarine warfare. As the frigate was intended purely for convoy duties, and not to deploy with the fleet, it had limited range and speed.
So, I guess "corvette" would be a proper term for system defence ships, but frigates are definetly a step below destroyers, and destroyers are definetly combat capable enough to be called "capital", designed to defend the larger, super-capital ships like battleships and carriers from smaller, faster attackers.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 12, 2011, 03:16:31 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 12, 2011, 03:50:19 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 12, 2011, 03:59:18 am
Heh. While we're on pointless arguments, has anyone noticed how supposedly nuclear missiles launched from planets fail to severely damage, let alone vaporize, a 30m destroyer in one hit?I could point out that a fission detonation in space is much less deadly or destructive as there is no air to transmit a shockwave, so you would really just have thermal shock and radiation (and maybe shrapnel, in the form of vaporized metal abrading the hull) so much less energy would be transferred to the ship.
But that would sound boring.
Space nuke should go boom and kill shit.
Aside: Those same missiles do an incredibly amount of damage if used to bombard the planet though. You will strip the hazard rating of a world very quickly if you use missiles on them.
Post by: Krelian on February 12, 2011, 04:01:00 am
edit: lol beaten, at least im not alone in the theory
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 12, 2011, 05:03:49 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 12, 2011, 01:30:34 pm
I've outfitted my primary battlecruisers with quad meson beams (Battle Bridge + War), and the rear Large turret was too limited to see serious use in combat, so I put a Thumper there, partly just to see how it works. Soon, I got to see. One rare battle where the human fleet was actually tearing up my own had a moment where the crew of one of their cruisers were probably out of commission for a moment, due to spontaneously losing their lunches and/or getting plastered against the bulkheads.
What happened was said cruiser trying to come in to attack one of my (last) ships from above. Prior to getting shot up by others of its kin, my ship happily punted a Thumper round at it. The round exploded at something of a critical point, just after the midsection, right in the slight thinning where the engine section connects. The result has... to be described in RPM. The human cruiser was violently hurled backward and upward, spinning like a throwing knife. It wasn't actually moving fast, but it was stopped and thrown back from a full-speed dive, with its heavier engine section getting most of the momentum.
Sadly, the crew never got to recover from this because another of my ships finished them off, but I'd imagine it was one of the more unpleasant pre-death experiences.
Do you have any memorable SotS moments?
Post by: Orb on February 12, 2011, 03:46:27 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on February 12, 2011, 04:50:44 pm
Yes, but even if you don't get the miles-wide destruction radius of the nuke in space, the explosions we see these things produce ingame are at most ten meters in diameter! We're still talking terajoules of energy being released for even a kiloton warhead, so I guess I'd expect the effects of a direct hit being... far more spectacular. And then you get shaped nuclear warheads, which specifically funnel the blast energy into the target, which still doesn't result in its vaporization. What the hell are these ships made of? And if the stuff's that tough, how the hell do glorified cannonballs damage it?
You just need moar dakka. Use DF racks.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on February 12, 2011, 05:44:29 pm
Do you have any memorable SotS moments?
First time using the super heavy mass drivers to pummel a Hiver DN and watch it spin wildly out of control before exploding due to subsequent shots.
Post by: Rakonas on February 12, 2011, 11:45:51 pm
Let's see... Oh great Wiki, lend me your wisdom!SotS is more of an early 20th century flavor, hence usage of the term Dreadnought. Destroyers are far from capital ships.QuoteIn naval terminology, a destroyer is a fast and maneuverable yet long-endurance warship intended to escort larger vessels in a fleet, convoy or battle group and defend them against smaller, powerful, short-range attackers.
...
At the dawn of the 21st Century, destroyers are the heaviest surface combatant ships in general use... ...are equivalent in tonnage but vastly superior in firepower to cruisers of the World War II era, capable of carrying nuclear missiles.QuoteModern frigates are related to earlier frigates only by name. The term "frigate" was readopted during World War II by the Royal Navy to describe a new type of anti-submarine escort vessel that was larger than a corvette, but smaller than a destroyer. The frigate was introduced to remedy some of the shortcomings inherent in the corvette design: limited armament, a hull form not suited to open-ocean work, a single shaft which limited speed and maneuverability, and a lack of range.
...
The frigate possessed less offensive firepower and speed than a destroyer, but such qualities were not required for anti-submarine warfare. Submarines were slow, and ASDIC sets did not operate effectively at speeds of over 20 knots. Rather, the frigate was an austere and weatherly vessel suitable for mass-construction and fitted with the latest innovations in anti-submarine warfare. As the frigate was intended purely for convoy duties, and not to deploy with the fleet, it had limited range and speed.
So, I guess "corvette" would be a proper term for system defence ships, but frigates are definetly a step below destroyers, and destroyers are definetly combat capable enough to be called "capital", designed to defend the larger, super-capital ships like battleships and carriers from smaller, faster attackers.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 12, 2011, 11:47:06 pm
Post by: Journier on February 13, 2011, 01:10:58 am
SotS is more of an early 20th century flavor, hence usage of the term Dreadnought. Destroyers are far from capital ships.
Oh yea, totally, since almost every SCI FI 4x has dreadnoughts in it that i can think of right now, as some kind of super powerful ship. which a dreadnought by ww2 was lulz. WW1 sure. dreadnoughts were the king of the sea's. But WW2 dreadnoughts were over with compared to modern Battleships. etc etc.
What simply happens is people or companies misuse names that sound cool from history, IE Dreadnought. "holy shit dude, it makes the enemy dread us aww yaaa, this things gonna be super god powerful"
and it gets used, I sorta hate it, actually i really hate it. but whatever.
but maybe SOTS has a WW1 feel to it.
Post by: Krelian on February 13, 2011, 01:11:18 am
Human destroyers are crewed by 3 people and IIRC are about 30m long... they aren't capital ships.
wha... ? where did you saw that information? (about the 3 people per destroyer)
Post by: Flare on February 13, 2011, 01:19:27 am
Human crew: 800-1000
http://sots.rorschach.net/Destroyers
Human Crew: 15-30
Liir Crew: 3-8
http://sots.rorschach.net/Cruiser
Human Crew: ~150
Is he confusing human and liir crews here?
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 13, 2011, 01:26:13 am
A while back on the forums I remember a dev commenting on this, saying that destroyers generally had 3-5 people crewing the ship at any one time.Human destroyers are crewed by 3 people and IIRC are about 30m long... they aren't capital ships.
wha... ? where did you saw that information? (about the 3 people per destroyer)
http://sots.rorschach.net/DestroyersNo, I'm not; though I may have misspoke. The comment I'm recalling (which I cannot now find, it was a long time ago) said there were generally 3-5 people on duty with a destroyer. Obviously that would necessitate at least 3 shifts, hence 15 or more people depending on how many support staff are needed. Still, they're tiny ships and not anything like a naval destroyer which can have hundreds of people. I mean, it's 30 meters long... that's the length of two F-16's. Squeezing up to 30 people in there must be an amazing feat of engineering.
Human Crew: 15-30
Liir Crew: 3-8
Is he confusing human and liir crews here?
Post by: Krelian on February 13, 2011, 03:20:58 am
Also, I can see SotS spaceships quite similar to submarines (specially the destroyers), as they need rougtly the same type of life suport, similar shape, etc.
In a related topic, a typical Human ship; Hammerhead+Armor+Fission, with the 20 crew, have this load out:
9 Small Mounts
1 Medium Mount
That's 10 gunners. Plus you have a captain, a navigator, and still have people for the rest of functions.
Instead, if said ship had only 3 men as a crew, there is certainly something wrong here. BTW, only with an AI Section the weapons fire on their own, so its not that the answer
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 13, 2011, 03:27:13 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 04:03:56 am
Apart from that, I suppose I can concede the point that a Destroyer in a modern navy is not really a capital ship (anymore, at least), mostly because the term is relative. When all you have is PT boats and corvettes, a Destroyer may well be your flagship; but when you've got nuclear missile cruisers patrolling seas as a pirate deterrent, the humble destroyer is just a dinky little escort ship. In SotS, the Destroyer, by a ludicrous mangling of naming conventions, became the smallest ship class possible, so they really can't be considered Capital in any shape or form. Btw, I should consider modding this game. It really, really needs a better ship classification system. What they got as the destroyer is a frigate at best, but more like a corvette actually. The cruisers seem about right by comparison, but are reached too damn quickly and function pretty much like the workhorses of the fleets, instead of the heavy-hitting spearhead needing escort by just about anything.
(btw, a game I know did better than this. It had "light cruisers" instead of destroyers, because a "destroyer" in russian is a "squadron minelayer", and no frigates as such, but the "small big attack ship" role was called a "corvette". This "corvette", with proper technological backing, had essentially only a third of the firepower of a Heavy Cruiser - it could mount at least one of the largest weapons in the game, and generally had enough smaller turret mounts to mildly inconvenience a Dreadnaut with a sudden nuclear MIRV swarm.)
Post by: Krelian on February 13, 2011, 04:17:56 am
It doesnt change the game that much, but there are some key changes that I liked, but still seemed like to little.
The Fusion Power and Antimatter power tech takes much longer to research.... but still too little IMO. Also, I think its too easy to access cruisers, destroyers are almost not used as a result. Cruisers maybe should require fussion, and dreadnoughts antimatter.
Also, we need Doomstars (ala MOO2) sooo badly xD. The flagship just isnt that special. Flashship seccion should be really something, like x3 of the power (and maybe size) of a vanilla dreadnougt.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 13, 2011, 04:26:59 am
Post by: Krelian on February 13, 2011, 04:28:14 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 04:52:54 am
This is taken direct from the Rorschach wiki:
Flagship section: 18000 HP, 18 small, 6 medium, 5 large, 8 beam mounts.
Armada CnC: 10000 HP, 18 small, 8 medium, 1 large mount. (no contest)
Armor section: 12000 HP, 10 small, 12 medium, 3 large mounts. (weaker in every way save medium mounts)
Barrage section: 13000 HP, 0 small, 6 medium, 4 large(missile only), 3 torpedo, 8 beam mounts. (close, but missile-only mounts limit usefulness)
Blazer section: 12000 HP, 0 small, 6 medium, 0 large, 11 beam mounts (no contest, 5 large turrets vs 3 extra beams)
Heavy COL: 12000 HP, 4 small, 6 medium, 4 large, 3 COL mounts (may be stronger in alphastrike with proper COLs, but reload's too long)
War section: 7000 HP (WHAT?), 6 small, 0 medium, 5 large, 8 beam mounts (you frikkin kidding me?)
Projector section: 12000 HP, 10 small, 12 medium, 0 large, 3 projector mounts (5 large and 8 beam mounts for 3 projectors and 6 mediums... questionable trade, otherwise neat)
There's also speed differences of course (CnC are usually slower), but those are mostly natural. After all, you don't want your flagship to be the damage soak for the enemy's first attack, right?
So, there you have it. The Flagship has the most CPs of every other command option in the game, and considerably more firepower and armor to boot. Not quite a battlestar yet (that honor goes to the Morrigi flagship, which also mounts a wing of drones), but already quite formidable. Now couple this with the Electronic Warfare command section...
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on February 13, 2011, 07:12:45 am
Post by: Lightning4 on February 13, 2011, 07:15:40 am
I guess it doesn't mean much if they don't roll (or steal) high armor tech though. That's what really makes flagships shine.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 07:28:42 am
Huh... For some reason I don't remember ever getting Flagship CnC, and I played Morrigi the most. I suppose I should get back into SotS.... If I can ever tear myself away from Hazeron.The Flagship section is a bit of an odd thing for Morrigi. With the way their ships are, you sometimes don't want, or don't need to research heavy beams - you get rather good mileage out of common beams on large mounts, and their wide design doesn't really lend itself well to good blazer ships. But the Flagship section requires the Heavy Beams. If you don't have them, then even if you research the Flagship CnC tech (right after Armada CnC), you won't get the section itself.
Btw, I absolutely LOVE Morrigi dreadnaughts. Dreadnaughty ships, those are. :) With a vertical profile, they can focus about 80% of their weaponry on any given target in front of them, and they are pretty quick to spin around. As a result, heavy beams are nothing but extras on a Morrigi 'naut, you get way better firepower with a Heavy COL section and some good Large weapons.
Btw btw, once I saw a human AI dreadnaught with some sort of Galleon-style broadside-facing heavy beams. WTF was that thing? I don't think I saw it on the wiki... maybe I didn't search well enough.
Post by: Lightning4 on February 13, 2011, 07:54:22 am
Post by: Zai on February 13, 2011, 01:55:59 pm
WW1 sure. dreadnoughts were the king of the sea's. But WW2 dreadnoughts were over with compared to modern Battleships.That's pretty much what Kerberos has said the games are equivalent to: SotS1 is supposed to have more of a WW1 thing with its ships, while SotS2 is supposed to have more of a WW2 thing.
...
but maybe SOTS has a WW1 feel to it.
Post by: Omegastick on February 13, 2011, 02:25:31 pm
1 Flagship
25 (or 24, I can't remember) Spinal Mounts (I'm considering changing this to Armour)
However many repair/refuel ships you want.
Yup, twenty-five little destroyers all swarming the enemy. It lags like hell but everything dies because of the swarm of missile fire and lasers.
The only practical downsides are that you have to rebuild after each fight (destroyers tend to just get blown up rather than damaged) and the beams hardly ever fire, they all get a shot in at the beginning, taking out an enemy with ease, and then only one or two fire every minute from then on.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 02:34:30 pm
You should try this with either minelayers (just keep your flagship way away if you're using implosion mines), or lots and lots of drone carriers. If you think the trick with cruisers is bad, you wait and see till your swarm of slightly larger "drones" joins the fun with the normal kind. And since they go down fast anyway, the fresh reinforcements from your flagship will keep adding moths to the flame.
(the last figure of speech is even more fitting if your opponent uses Phaser PD)
For horribly excruciating overkill, use the War section. One hundred missiles per salvo, and that's just with the human DEs.
(for ludicrously egregious overkill, make that one thousand dumbfire missiles)
(aand I just realized how to top that. Do you know how? Use Hivers. AI Command + War + Antimatter gives a Hiver destroyer SEVEN MEDIUM SECTIONS!!! Already good. Wait, there's more. The Hiver Flagship gives 76 CP. With both upgrade techs, 84 CP. 18 CP for the flagship itself, this leaves SIXTY-SIX COMMAND POINTS. THIRTY-THREE DESTROYERS, SEVEN MISSILE LAUNCHERS EACH. TWO HUNDRED THIRTY ONE MISSILE PER SALVO! TAKE THAT, PHASER POINT DEFENSE!!)
Post by: Omegastick on February 13, 2011, 02:50:38 pm
I would use the war section but there are no Zuul in my current game.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 02:56:41 pm
Post by: Omegastick on February 13, 2011, 03:21:23 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 04:05:54 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 13, 2011, 04:23:23 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 13, 2011, 04:50:22 pm
Post by: Flare on February 14, 2011, 05:24:48 am
Btw btw, once I saw a human AI dreadnaught with some sort of Galleon-style broadside-facing heavy beams. WTF was that thing? I don't think I saw it on the wiki... maybe I didn't search well enough.
It's a human mission section right from the beginning of the series. I'm surprised you haven't come up against them by now. But yeah, humans in this game have a love for broad sides it seems. Both the armor destroyers, armor cruiser, and certain dreadnought mission sections are designed to have the most guns pointed at the enemy from their side.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 14, 2011, 11:05:31 am
At least Heavy COLs I can (now) understand - they're an area support weapon, you want a ship with them to be able to fire in several directions without having to turn.
Btw, I tried Antimatter Mine crackers, as the Hivers vs the Zuul. Result - the four minelayer DEs in front of the defensive position remained unscratched, even though one of the 30+ attacking cruisers technically made it past the line (its command section did, separated from the rest of the hull). Four COL cruisers laying down suppressive antimatter fire = incoming ships suddenly discovering themselves in the middle of a superheated plasma cloud. Unlike leap crackers, antimatter crackers actually spread the mines out, resulting in PD being completely and utterly swamped. You can achieve a similar effect with a platoon of minelayers (ten minelayers lay down 100 mines in 15 seconds), but the DEs are fragile, and the CRs are a little too slow. With COLs, you can even shield the ship, resulting in the ultimate siege weapon before siege drivers roll around.
Post by: Krelian on February 14, 2011, 12:07:34 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 15, 2011, 07:46:26 am
Well, a crappy/rookie one, but nevertheless. I've had some ideas for new weapons that SotS-verse could use, so I started adding them.
Idea 1 - currently added. HEAP Driver. Nothing to do with piledrivers, though I suppose a Plasmatic Immolation Low-Emission driver could be a good pun. Anyway. These are, basically, a combination of dumbfire missiles and AP Drivers - a High-Explosive Armor-Piercing Mass Driver, like in the modern(ish) military. Scales up with warhead tech, so allows ballistic weapons to remain usable well into the "melt your face off" age of meson beams and antimatter cannons. Usable for all weapon sizes. Small ones combined with antimatter warheads might even out-DPS pulse phasers, I need to look the damage multiplier up.
Idea 2 in progress. Repeating Driver. Once you research Heavy Stormers, your basic ballistic tech is good enough to dramatically raise fire rate on the common Mass driver and Gauss driver, creating the Repeating Driver. Fits into small and medium slots, fires very fast (I'm thinking twice a second for small, once for medium) and tracks very fast. Might probably work good as point defense too.
Idea 3. Heavy Flak. With small PD roles filled up nicely by existing weapons, this weapon can be installed on a Medium slot, firing wide-area exploding charges in quick bursts. Great for taking out large clouds of missiles or drones (locusts?), but capable of firing at normal targets as well, though dealing less damage than a good proper weapon.
Comments?
edit: update on those ideas.
Repeating Drivers need a slight tone-down, but are otherwise nice. They really need to be installed in a medium/large mount though, just like Stormers. Their difference from Stormers is that they have less DPS, but distribute this DPS much better across multiple targets, and are actually halfdecent weapons against the Swarm and their ilk.
Heavy Flak... well, it didn't work too well, and at the same time worked too well. I couldn't get it to explode around the target missiles, but when firing on normal ships it completely tore them apart. So much for that.
Next, I want to bring missiles up to scratch (larger warheads is all they can sport in later stages), for example with Volley Launchers, large turrets sending out a spray of missiles, and Swarm Launchers, short-range MIRV equivalents without a carrier rocket but with a medium turret mount.
Also, I wonder if an "AI Drone" is a tautology? I wanted to make a sort of advanced drone design that'd become available after AI research, that'd have additional small mounts in proper turrets.
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 15, 2011, 01:30:19 pm
Post by: Cajoes on February 15, 2011, 01:34:12 pm
If you trigger a AI rebellion however you get lots and lots of completely AI controlled ships.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 15, 2011, 01:53:05 pm
On the same note, I've got a few more weapon concepts.
Pulse Bomb - a side application of Torpedo and Polarized Plasmatics tech, the Pulse Bomb is a small tracking globule of polarized plasma, capable of being fitted into a medium strafe mount. Due to the projectile actually weakening with range as the polarized fields dissipate around the high-energy core, its best use is in Heavy Drones. Comes in Plasma, Fusion, and Antimatter varieties, matching the researched Torpedo techs, also requires Chakkars for Plasma and Fusion, and Chakrams for Antimatter.
Gyrojets (micro missiles): With interceptor PDs available, why the heck not? Take the swarmer warhead and fit it with a simple target ID system. Now you have a small-sized short-range missile launcher, weaker hitting than a HEAP gauss and with a longer reload, but with longer range and tracking.
Non-weapon: Drone Shields tech. Once you get Shield Amplification and MkIII Shields, you can develop heavy drone frames with built-in MkI-equivalent shield generators. These drones have reduced speed and maneuverability as a result of shields drawing away engine power.
As for the other projects:
HEAP drivers seem to pass all sanity checks. Late-game they're ever so slightly weaker than comparable missiles, and aren't too easy to get (You need DF Racks and AP drivers, which some races won't get sometimes) so their higher early-game power isn't that obvious.
Repeater drivers survived transplantation into medium/large turrets admirably, now a Gauss repeater gives slightly lower DPS than its brother the medium-mount stormer, but is much more efficient at the application of this DPS. Same with the Mass Driver repeater. The gauss repeaters might look good on drones, with their high fire rate.
Flak drivers need some good blast FX, and I still can't confirm that they actually explode around incoming missiles they miss, but with a proper downgrade they work like decent medium-mount weapons. They're guaranteed to be a great swarm-deterrent, because of their wide area of effect.
Working on Swarmer Launchers and Volley Launchers next.
Here you go - if you want to use them:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/SotSMod.zip (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4152380/SotSMod.zip)
Includes HEAP Drivers, Repeater Drivers, and the Flak Driver. No new research necessary.
HEAP drivers require AP Drivers and DF Racks. Repeater Drivers require Stormers. Flak drivers require Stormers and Point Defence.
The archive is a Mods folder and sots.ini, which you'll have to either edit to point to your profile, or just post it as-is and hope the game understands what you want of it. The mod presumes a SotS Complete Collection, 1.8.0. If you've got something else, it may or may not work.
Post by: Cajoes on February 15, 2011, 03:31:54 pm
Drones are, I feel, a somewhat underutilized concept, mainly in fact because most ships will carry some form of Point Defence or another (unless the random tech tree RNG decides to completely screw you over) And once you have phaser point defences or perish the thought, missile point defences, it lands drones in the very awkward position of being a detachable low tier turret with very low life expectancy. - The only game I can think of where this isn't the case for what is basicly a glorified missile which launches missiles (or lasers, or what have you(not to be confused with those missiles which do in fact split up into multiple missiles*)) would be EvE online, if only because there are no proper point defence slots for the ships and drones tend to be a pain in the ass to shoot down. - I guess it just comes down to what the situation calls for, like the unlikely event that nobody else ever bothered to research point defences (which is almost a necessity with Silicoids roaming around). ... Or you can fit beamers on them and try to bring as many into battle as humanely possible. PDs be damned.
* Make a COL package that splits up into missiles. Lots of missiles. With auto target aquisition.
Does anyone recall what the balance reasoning decision behind making dreadnought sections not explode until the whole thing comes apart from sheer structural stress (shooty go boom). ... And is there a way to mod how many ship sections you can disable before the ship inevitably explode? Would be fun to have a completely disabled hulk floating around...
Post by: Krelian on February 21, 2011, 05:26:01 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on February 21, 2011, 05:48:07 am
Post by: Cheese on February 21, 2011, 05:55:13 am
Post by: Krelian on February 21, 2011, 07:31:28 am
Post by: Cajoes on February 21, 2011, 08:05:59 am
No guns on the bottom? That seems like a design flaw.
Just flip the ship over.
Post by: Ioric Kittencuddler on February 21, 2011, 08:08:31 am
No guns on the bottom? That seems like a design flaw.
Just flip the ship over.
What? No guns on the top? That seems like a design flaw.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2011, 12:04:06 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 21, 2011, 12:59:20 pm
All in all, it looks like I was right. We get "System Defense" Destroyers as a new ship class, Cruisers are essentially what Destroyers were previously, Dreadnaughts act like Cruisers, and Leviathans take place of the Dreadnaughts. Same deal, just scaled up. Downgrading destroyers to system defense was (IMO) not a good move, they could've just added frigates for that, but I understand the need for such ships - defense platforms are NOT going to cut it when you have combat actually happening in the system, not just one of the planets. Orbital defenses will only be useful to hold off a siege, but to actually fight incoming menaces you'll need mobile ships.
Post by: Omegastick on February 21, 2011, 04:44:36 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2011, 04:45:57 pm
Do you guys know what would be immense for drones/missiles to have on them? Point-defence-point-defence. Even faster firing guns that have a shorter range and less damage, but can shoot down PD shots. :DBut then I would put point-defense-point-defense-point-defense on my point-defense missiles which could shoot down your point-defense-point-defense rounds! :D
Post by: Omegastick on February 21, 2011, 04:54:45 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2011, 04:55:29 pm
Oh noez! My plan is foiled, I'll have to use PDPDPDPD Missiles! They are so small the human eye can't actually see them.But my PDPDPDPDPD nanomunitions would defeat you!
Post by: daemoria on February 21, 2011, 05:06:39 pm
But seriously, no thats a bad idea. A short range pointdefence pointdfence would be pointless when you start moving engagement ranges outwards.
Post by: Omegastick on February 21, 2011, 05:19:57 pm
I heard you like bullets, so i put some bullets on your bullets to shoot bullets.Yeah, I was kidding when I suggested it.
But seriously, no thats a bad idea. A short range pointdefence pointdfence would be pointless when you start moving engagement ranges outwards.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2011, 05:21:26 pm
As was I when I responded.I heard you like bullets, so i put some bullets on your bullets to shoot bullets.Yeah, I was kidding when I suggested it.
But seriously, no thats a bad idea. A short range pointdefence pointdfence would be pointless when you start moving engagement ranges outwards.
Post by: Krelian on February 21, 2011, 06:12:52 pm
Oh noez! My plan is foiled, I'll have to use PDPDPDPD Missiles! They are so small the human eye can't actually see them.But my PDPDPDPDPD nanomunitions would defeat you!
bah! I would put shields on my PD bullets, so your PD PD bullets would be useless
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2011, 06:14:22 pm
Aha but my PDPDPDPDPD nanomunitions are shieldbreaker rounds!Oh noez! My plan is foiled, I'll have to use PDPDPDPD Missiles! They are so small the human eye can't actually see them.But my PDPDPDPDPD nanomunitions would defeat you!
bah! I would put shields on my PD bullets, so your PD PD bullets would be useless
Post by: Krelian on February 21, 2011, 07:34:34 pm
Aha but my PDPDPDPDPD nanomunitions are shieldbreaker rounds!
oh! then you are lost, because shield breaker rounds dont do actual structural damage to my bullets :p
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 21, 2011, 07:35:02 pm
Drat! Foiled again!Aha but my PDPDPDPDPD nanomunitions are shieldbreaker rounds!
oh! then you are lost, because shield breaker rounds dont do actual structural damage to my bullets :p
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on February 22, 2011, 12:53:11 am
Post by: Shadowgandor on February 22, 2011, 05:46:16 am
To an extent, it's already possible. Light drones (or any drones with a small mount) can already carry PD, to get rid of those pesky interceptor missiles. I'm still working on the shielded drone design.That'd be awesome, I love using drones in this game :)
Post by: Cheese on March 06, 2011, 08:17:54 am
Post by: motorbitch on March 07, 2011, 02:36:11 am
i tend to say, if an utilarian ship has the power force the enemy to bring in specialized ships (with verry long range), something is wrong.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2011, 02:57:22 am
Post by: Lightning4 on March 07, 2011, 06:39:59 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2011, 11:35:01 am
Post by: Krelian on March 29, 2011, 09:19:12 am
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection)
Post by: timferius on March 29, 2011, 12:28:04 pm
Post by: Cheese on March 29, 2011, 12:42:04 pm
Post by: timferius on March 29, 2011, 12:43:31 pm
Post by: Cheese on March 29, 2011, 02:29:08 pm
Post by: Krelian on March 29, 2011, 02:36:55 pm
I have tried almost all space 4x games out there, and this one is the best... by far.
Post by: Shadowlord on March 29, 2011, 04:57:12 pm
The complete collection is for 7 USD (next 5 days)
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection)
Still $19.99 on steam. I don't trust GamersGate. I already have it from Impulse, mind you, but I have friends who don't.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 29, 2011, 05:04:04 pm
Why don't you trust gamersgate? It's actually their primary publishing partner. I've bought dozens of games from them without incident.The complete collection is for 7 USD (next 5 days)
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection)
Still $19.99 on steam. I don't trust GamersGate. I already have it from Impulse, mind you, but I have friends who don't.
Post by: Android on March 29, 2011, 06:15:38 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on March 29, 2011, 07:23:16 pm
Why don't you trust gamersgate? It's actually their primary publishing partner. I've bought dozens of games from them without incident.
Here is why:
I know this is slightly off topic but I've read several posts advocating using GamersGate and my recent experience suggests nobody should be giving them credit card information.
Didn't anybody notice that GamersGate sent your password to you in your registration email?
[...]
Of course you might not care about security. If you are always asking strangers to carry your credit card for you because it is too heavy then you probably don't need to worry about entering it into a website run by idiots.
Sending someone's password in clear text over the internet is always a bad idea for several reasons which should be fairly obvious (it can be captured in several different ways depending on where you are and how you are on the internet), especially when that password, if it isn't changed, could later be used to access their credit card information (if the user saved it / didn't delete it).
Emphasis mine:
Anyone else play this? [(A game named Precursors)] It's a Russian game from now apparently defunct developer Deep Shadows. Recently an English version was released (which is, quite frankly, one of the worst translation jobs I've ever heard of - they simply stripped all the Russian dialog, which bugs the game to not play any audio at all most of the time, and made a really crappy effort at translating the text - luckily a fan made translation patch is better and doesn't screw up the audio). The funny thing is apparently the GamersGate version (which costs $30) is a cracked unpatched version, which you can't patch because that will remove the crack and thus you can't play your legitimately purchased game. To get the GamersGate version working with the patch you have to download a keygen, lol. I bought the russian version from yuplay.ru for $8 and downloaded the unofficial translation patch (which translated the text better, and still included the cutscenes from the english version).
<sarcasm> That doesn't sound fishy at all! </sarcasm> It looks to me like GamersGate is literally selling pirated software. Why else would it include a crack and stop working if you patched it?
Post by: Rakonas on March 29, 2011, 08:16:34 pm
Man, I'm personally sick of this Gamersgate hate, because while I guess it's not entirely unwarranted I've bought most PC's games I've played in the past few years off of them and never had any problems. The same thing as anything, just check out stuff that you plan on downloading and if other people can vouch for it, whether legit or illegit downloads, then you're pretty much fine. On another note, gamersgate does not save your credit card information and you have to reenter whenever you use it. Hell, I've never seen any website save your credit card information. Also, I could be watching Regular Show right now, why am I posting?Why don't you trust gamersgate? It's actually their primary publishing partner. I've bought dozens of games from them without incident.
Here is why:I know this is slightly off topic but I've read several posts advocating using GamersGate and my recent experience suggests nobody should be giving them credit card information.
Didn't anybody notice that GamersGate sent your password to you in your registration email?
[...]
Of course you might not care about security. If you are always asking strangers to carry your credit card for you because it is too heavy then you probably don't need to worry about entering it into a website run by idiots.
Sending someone's password in clear text over the internet is always a bad idea for several reasons which should be fairly obvious (it can be captured in several different ways depending on where you are and how you are on the internet), especially when that password, if it isn't changed, could later be used to access their credit card information (if the user saved it / didn't delete it).
Emphasis mine:Anyone else play this? [(A game named Precursors)] It's a Russian game from now apparently defunct developer Deep Shadows. Recently an English version was released (which is, quite frankly, one of the worst translation jobs I've ever heard of - they simply stripped all the Russian dialog, which bugs the game to not play any audio at all most of the time, and made a really crappy effort at translating the text - luckily a fan made translation patch is better and doesn't screw up the audio). The funny thing is apparently the GamersGate version (which costs $30) is a cracked unpatched version, which you can't patch because that will remove the crack and thus you can't play your legitimately purchased game. To get the GamersGate version working with the patch you have to download a keygen, lol. I bought the russian version from yuplay.ru for $8 and downloaded the unofficial translation patch (which translated the text better, and still included the cutscenes from the english version).
<sarcasm> That doesn't sound fishy at all! </sarcasm> It looks to me like GamersGate is literally selling pirated software. Why else would it include a crack and stop working if you patched it?
Post by: jocan2003 on March 29, 2011, 08:29:31 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 29, 2011, 09:21:37 pm
Direct 2 Drive has several games which they simply refuse to patch, either because those patches remove DRM or because the games are deemed 'too old' and are not economically worth patching. d2d encrypts large portions of downloaded games to keep you from 'pirating' them, which severely restricts modding support and makes the game itself run worse than normal as it must decrypt data files prior to use each time it load. I won't even bother going into their draconian DRM policy.
Gamersgate at least has a moderately light DRM policy, allows you to back up the installation files to your drive (which steam and Impulse do as well, but it requires the steam/impulse installer running to install from those backups), and generally has pretty good deals.
Post by: timferius on March 30, 2011, 10:23:52 am
Post by: Krelian on March 30, 2011, 11:26:30 am
Plus I have no problem paying 20 dollars for the game.
more money for the devs :)
you will not regret the purchase
any questions about gameplay, here we are
Post by: timferius on March 30, 2011, 11:31:23 am
Post by: lemon10 on March 30, 2011, 11:39:40 am
If you keep it on long enough, it will drain your planet dry and make it near worthless, however turning it on for a few turns after you settle the planet can reduce the time nessasary for it to grow to full population/infrastructure massively.
One of the others is terraforming/infrastructure, one side makes it terraform faster (for better population growth), the other side increases production (which includes increasing rate of terraforming/infrastructure growth). This bar is only on newish colony worlds
The final is money/production, it determines how much production you are willing to spend on ship building/terraforming/infrastructure per turn.
Disclaimer: Been a while since i played, so i might get a name or something wrong.
Post by: timferius on March 30, 2011, 11:48:54 am
Post by: lemon10 on March 30, 2011, 11:57:20 am
So, hypothetically, I could snage a border colony of my enemies, Completly strip mine it of all worth, and then essentially abandon it? I'm liking this game more and more and I haven't gotten to play yet!Not really, the amount that you can overproduce on a planet depends on the amount of infrastructure/population you have there, and you have to kill everyone to take the planet (and generally destroy the infrastructure as well), so it will take a long time before you would be able to get to the stage where you could do it fast enough.
It's pretty sharply limited too unless you got strip mining (or mega mining, or whatever the tech is).
You might be able to pull it off with the zull and their strip mining (massively increases the amount you can overproduce) technology, but generally if you can hold a planet for 50-100 turns, its kinda pointless to purposely destroy it, since they won't get it back.
Honestly, massive bombing works just as well, since with enough you can hit their planet with a few hundred terraforming damage (and late enough game you can deal so much damage to a planet that no one can ever live their again) and kill everyone+infrastructure.
Post by: Krelian on March 30, 2011, 12:36:43 pm
Plus, the tech also accelerates the process of the normal overharvest to 10% (still not fast enought I think)
http://sots.rorschach.net/Mega-Strip_Mining (http://sots.rorschach.net/Mega-Strip_Mining)
http://sots.rorschach.net/Mining_Section (http://sots.rorschach.net/Mining_Section)
Quote
This mission section is used to strip an uninhabited system of resources quickly and efficiently. Unfortunately, it results in a large amount of Overharvesting, resulting in a drop in the long-term output ability of the target system. The capacity of a mining section varies depending upon the race that built it but around 500 resource units is a good approximation.
According to the chart, on average each ship drain like 100 resources per turn (and double with strip mining tech, to 200 per ship). With a 6 ship fleet you need only 4 turns to turn a rich 5000 resource planet into a barren world. Plus you get to enrich back some of yours (25% of the mined resources) :p
Post by: timferius on March 30, 2011, 12:40:41 pm
Post by: motorbitch on March 30, 2011, 03:14:36 pm
however, a planet with 0 minerals is not sterile and will even have a (low) production. its population still will generate income. it will take some time to build up the infra and climate, but with higher techs thats not a big issue.
if you want to sterilize a planet, there are a lot of weapons capable of messing up a planets climate hazard beyond repairability. with low techs, missles works best.
however, usualy you would not want to sterilize a world, but capture it as intact (and if you have the amoc expansion) as many foreign civilian population as possible.
low tech laser do minor damage to infra and climate, so i usually bring specialized planet killer cruisers during the whole game.
read the part "weapon ch damage" of this wikipage (http://sots.rorschach.net/Terraforming) to learn how to use weapons ch damage to push planets into your optimal by atomic transforming.
Post by: Krelian on April 10, 2011, 03:09:56 am
The complete collection is for 7 USD (next 5 days)
http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection (http://www.gamersgate.com/DD-SOTSCC/sword-of-the-stars-complete-collection)
New offer, another page have the complete collection, this time for 6 USD. I dont know for how long however.
http://www.direct2drive.com/9546/product/Buy-Sword-of-the-Stars-Complete-Collection-Download (http://www.direct2drive.com/9546/product/Buy-Sword-of-the-Stars-Complete-Collection-Download)
Post by: Lightning4 on April 10, 2011, 03:40:11 am
Plus, even when using the highest hazard weapons, you'll probably obliterate the entire population of the planet before it turns into a barren wasteland. Though you are likely to do significant damage, which will hinder any regrowth of the target empire. Certainly a valid goal.
Post by: Simmura McCrea on April 10, 2011, 09:58:18 am
Post by: motorbitch on April 10, 2011, 05:05:34 pm
anyway, my question never has been how to make a glass ball, but how to get the planet as habitable for me as possible.
Post by: Flare on April 11, 2011, 01:23:23 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 11, 2011, 02:04:22 am
Use lots and lots of colonizers.This is the easiest way to get colonies up and running quick. Each colonizer you use increases the initial population and the amount of infrastructure you start with. Biome colonizers also give bonus terraforming.
Post by: Cheese on April 11, 2011, 10:11:17 am
Use lots and lots of colonizers.This is the easiest way to get colonies up and running quick. Each colonizer you use increases the initial population and the amount of infrastructure you start with. Biome colonizers also give bonus terraforming.
Yea, more colonisers usually causes a drastic decrease in the overall cost of the colony as well. See colonising strategies (http://sots.rorschach.net/Colonizing_Strategies)
Post by: Lightning4 on October 19, 2011, 01:42:42 pm
This is because SotS2 is coming out the 28th.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2011, 02:17:52 pm
This is because SotS2 is coming out the 28th.Squeeee! I had forgotten. Thanks, now the next 9 days will be super slow because I'll be waiting for it.
Post by: RedKing on October 19, 2011, 03:22:29 pm
Bump. Sword of the Stars: Complete is $5 on Steam and Gamersgate.And there was much rejoicing.
This is because SotS2 is coming out the 28th.
Post by: Drakale on October 19, 2011, 08:08:24 pm
Also, leviathans kick all kind of ass.
Post by: Lord Snow on October 20, 2011, 02:52:47 am
I always get caught with my fleet out of place as enemy fleets float in from unexpected angles, and my colonies seem to be all over the place (not an issue at all as hive).
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 20, 2011, 09:58:01 am
i cant play anything but hive, the drive complexities of other races drive me insane :(Complexities? The Tarkas is the simplest of all the drives. You just go to your destination. Humans use the same model as games like ascendancy. Liir are the same as Tarkas but they slow down near gravity wells.
I always get caught with my fleet out of place as enemy fleets float in from unexpected angles, and my colonies seem to be all over the place (not an issue at all as hive).
Post by: BigD145 on October 20, 2011, 11:07:54 am
i cant play anything but hive, the drive complexities of other races drive me insane :(
I always get caught with my fleet out of place as enemy fleets float in from unexpected angles, and my colonies seem to be all over the place (not an issue at all as hive).
Stop placing your colonies all over the place? It is a 3D map and you need to be thinking about that when colonizing and/or going to war with other races.
Post by: RedKing on October 20, 2011, 12:23:04 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 20, 2011, 12:33:23 pm
Yeah, if anything the Hive are the 2nd most complex in terms of propulsion (the Zuul being the trickiest to manage). Not that I don't love playing as the Hive, because it allows you to keep your defense fleet in one big group and respond to any incursions in time to intercept. The only way to really fight that is to time your attacks so that you hit multiple Hive worlds in a single turn.When I'm playing against the Hive (my buddy -loves- them) I set up about a dozen fleets, all with jammers, set to hit a dozen different colonies all at once. Most of the fleets just have a jammer and a few token combat ships, but there are 3 main fleets with the actual attack forces. He calls it Lizard Roulette because he never knows which ones to defend against and which to ignore. (lizard because I play Tarkas a lot)
Post by: timferius on October 20, 2011, 01:39:57 pm
Yeah, if anything the Hive are the 2nd most complex in terms of propulsion (the Zuul being the trickiest to manage). Not that I don't love playing as the Hive, because it allows you to keep your defense fleet in one big group and respond to any incursions in time to intercept. The only way to really fight that is to time your attacks so that you hit multiple Hive worlds in a single turn.When I'm playing against the Hive (my buddy -loves- them) I set up about a dozen fleets, all with jammers, set to hit a dozen different colonies all at once. Most of the fleets just have a jammer and a few token combat ships, but there are 3 main fleets with the actual attack forces. He calls it Lizard Roulette because he never knows which ones to defend against and which to ignore. (lizard because I play Tarkas a lot)
That... is genious! *stolen*
Post by: Smitehappy on October 20, 2011, 01:55:10 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 20, 2011, 01:59:04 pm
Has any had any luck with Morrigi colony and asteroid tricksters? I've never been able to successfully position them anywhere besides backwater planets noone bothers to go to.I toss colony traps randomly along borders between my enemies, especially once I know what planets they like to settle. If I run across a planet that is fantastic to another race but terrible for me I trap it. I rarely use the asteroid traps.
Post by: Shades on October 21, 2011, 06:04:35 am
When I'm playing against the Hive (my buddy -loves- them) I set up about a dozen fleets, all with jammers, set to hit a dozen different colonies all at once. Most of the fleets just have a jammer and a few token combat ships, but there are 3 main fleets with the actual attack forces. He calls it Lizard Roulette because he never knows which ones to defend against and which to ignore. (lizard because I play Tarkas a lot)
If your playing as morrgi then it's possible to build a fleet which moves faster than the distance of most scanners so they don't get the one turn warning before you arrive. This also stops the hive intercept tactic :)
Post by: Orb on October 21, 2011, 02:24:50 pm
When I'm playing against the Hive (my buddy -loves- them) I set up about a dozen fleets, all with jammers, set to hit a dozen different colonies all at once. Most of the fleets just have a jammer and a few token combat ships, but there are 3 main fleets with the actual attack forces. He calls it Lizard Roulette because he never knows which ones to defend against and which to ignore. (lizard because I play Tarkas a lot)
If your playing as morrgi then it's possible to build a fleet which moves faster than the distance of most scanners so they don't get the one turn warning before you arrive. This also stops the hive intercept tactic :)
This is also possible with Humans, and I also believe Zuul. If the planets are particularly close, its even possible with Tarka I believe. Liir get slowed down by the planet unfortunately, and its pretty rare, if it happens at all, they can arrive in one turn. But generally, once anti-matter stage is reached, the Hiver better be winning, or their going to be hard pressed to defend all their planets.
My own strategy against the Hiver is to simply have a fleet go to a planet destination that is beyond the intended target. Once its in range to reach the target and one or more other colonies in one turn, I divert course to one of those colonies. This only works with Tarka and Morrigi, of course.
Post by: Shadowlord on October 21, 2011, 02:51:39 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 21, 2011, 02:57:52 pm
Personally, I get deep scanners up at my colonies for better advance notice ASAP. It's especially important as I play Liir, who seem to have horribly slow ship movement and need to keep defense fleets at each colony. For them, if someone is coming to attack it, it's generally faster to build more ships at a colony to defend it than to try to send more from another (they'd never arrive in time).Once I'm in that age every planet has a deep scanner and a jammer so they never know what is defending it and I (hopefully) see them from a good distance.
Post by: lordcooper on October 21, 2011, 05:00:27 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 21, 2011, 05:02:40 pm
Is there any way to make it stop repeating the same sentence at the beginning of every single turn?Turn the voice volume down?
I have to do that, because eventually they started to annoy me.
Post by: Flare on October 22, 2011, 05:09:00 am
When I'm playing against the Hive (my buddy -loves- them) I set up about a dozen fleets, all with jammers, set to hit a dozen different colonies all at once. Most of the fleets just have a jammer and a few token combat ships, but there are 3 main fleets with the actual attack forces. He calls it Lizard Roulette because he never knows which ones to defend against and which to ignore. (lizard because I play Tarkas a lot)
If your playing as morrgi then it's possible to build a fleet which moves faster than the distance of most scanners so they don't get the one turn warning before you arrive. This also stops the hive intercept tactic :)
This is also possible with Humans, and I also believe Zuul. If the planets are particularly close, its even possible with Tarka I believe. Liir get slowed down by the planet unfortunately, and its pretty rare, if it happens at all, they can arrive in one turn. But generally, once anti-matter stage is reached, the Hiver better be winning, or their going to be hard pressed to defend all their planets.
My own strategy against the Hiver is to simply have a fleet go to a planet destination that is beyond the intended target. Once its in range to reach the target and one or more other colonies in one turn, I divert course to one of those colonies. This only works with Tarka and Morrigi, of course.
Mine is to simply send jammers to each of their worlds that would land simultaneously to the actual assault fleet and hope they pick the wrong one to send their ships to.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 27, 2011, 08:26:21 pm
Quote from: Steam
This game will unlock in approximately 16 hours
-twitch-
Post by: Simmura McCrea on October 28, 2011, 01:58:48 am
*cries*Quote from: SteamThis game will unlock in approximately1611 hours
-twitch-
But it's the 28th!
Post by: kukouri on October 28, 2011, 02:16:52 am
Post by: S.K. Ren on October 28, 2011, 02:32:37 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 06:30:49 am
*cries*Quote from: SteamThis game will unlock in approximately1611 hours
-twitch-
But it's the 28th!
Quote from: Steam
This game will unlock in approximately16116 hours
-froth/twitch/stare-
Post by: Simmura McCrea on October 28, 2011, 06:48:28 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 06:49:02 am
It's not even going to be unlocked by the time I get back from class D:It will be by the time I get home!
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 11:09:40 am
Quote from: Steam
This game will unlock in approximately 1 hour
:'(
I won't be home for another 7 hours.
Edit: Huh... now it says:
Quote
This game will unlock in approximately 5 hours
O.o
Maybe it's good that I didn't stay home.
Post by: Lord Snow on October 28, 2011, 12:10:33 pm
Here i was, expecting this to release early morning like Dungeon Defenders did. (which also said it would release late in the evening german time)
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 12:14:45 pm
FFS they delayed the release. PPL think they're actually still working on the game or installer or whatever.You have a source saying they delayed it? I've seen Steam fuck up the countdown before with no reason given other than "haha you can't do anything about it".
Here i was, expecting this to release early morning like Dungeon Defenders did. (which also said it would release late in the evening german time)
Post by: Empty on October 28, 2011, 12:33:39 pm
Post by: Lord Snow on October 28, 2011, 12:34:59 pm
I don't have an official source, but the talk on forums is, kerberos wanted to i.e. remove independant colonies and change/improve balance.FFS they delayed the release. PPL think they're actually still working on the game or installer or whatever.You have a source saying they delayed it? I've seen Steam fuck up the countdown before with no reason given other than "haha you can't do anything about it".
Here i was, expecting this to release early morning like Dungeon Defenders did. (which also said it would release late in the evening german time)
Post by: Bremen on October 28, 2011, 12:42:07 pm
If you're using steam you probably need to exit and restart; this is normal for steam releases.
Post by: Viken on October 28, 2011, 12:42:30 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 12:43:45 pm
Don't listen to the steam forums ever. They removed the indy colonies and implemented those changes at ~2am this morning and sent Steam the final file then.I don't have an official source, but the talk on forums is, kerberos wanted to i.e. remove independant colonies and change/improve balance.FFS they delayed the release. PPL think they're actually still working on the game or installer or whatever.You have a source saying they delayed it? I've seen Steam fuck up the countdown before with no reason given other than "haha you can't do anything about it".
Here i was, expecting this to release early morning like Dungeon Defenders did. (which also said it would release late in the evening german time)
Post by: Comp112 on October 28, 2011, 12:43:59 pm
Up on steam now, more then likely up on the others as well.
Post by: Lord Snow on October 28, 2011, 12:47:18 pm
Post by: Lord Snow on October 28, 2011, 01:09:07 pm
Sorry to say, but in my eyes this is a beta version.
Even basic things like reciting the sections and ship name in ship building are missing.
A lot of detail appears to have been added, but so far its empty detail. Obvious descriptions missing, tutorial, random maps... i feel like its been tested by veteran players of sots1 instead of newbs.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 01:20:17 pm
Working now, you can activate it on steam. Might have to restart it before, but its working.Very probably true, and that was acknowledged in Mecron's 'state of the union' iirc. They have a day 1/day 2 patch which they've been working on to fix some of that. Their focus was on getting the game out and playable and not delaying it further.
Sorry to say, but in my eyes this is a beta version.
Even basic things like reciting the sections and ship name in ship building are missing.
A lot of detail appears to have been added, but so far its empty detail. Obvious descriptions missing, tutorial, random maps... i feel like its been tested by veteran players of sots1 instead of newbs.
Post by: Lord Snow on October 28, 2011, 01:40:52 pm
And the last game i felt being as hollow in spite of the rich detail was star ruler... of which i still think it never filled out its intended size.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 01:47:44 pm
Post by: engy on October 28, 2011, 03:24:06 pm
Also some random screenshots of a battle for our less bandwidth enabled friends:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/engysback/screenshots?tab=public&showdate=1&filter=app_42990
It did crash to desktop at the end. Apparently the correct verison is being uploaded as I type this.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566854-Official-Info-I&s=f50597e152053cfeb91757fb89d29792
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 03:38:12 pm
At the behest of the DFC Chat I streamed an hour or so of gameplay: recording is up here: http://www.livestream.com/engy.Nice. What are your first impressions?
Also some random screenshots of a battle for our less bandwidth enabled friends:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/engysback/screenshots?tab=public&showdate=1&filter=app_42990
It did crash to desktop at the end. Apparently the correct verison is being uploaded as I type this.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566854-Official-Info-I&s=f50597e152053cfeb91757fb89d29792
Post by: engy on October 28, 2011, 03:42:12 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 28, 2011, 03:47:17 pm
I really like it. It's different and it's not going to play like SotS did. For one, you don't actually 'control' your fleets in the same way you used to. You give them orders to go Survey a system or Colonize a system and they go do it. You can manually do the battles still. Colonizers aren't used up; they are more like people transports. You have some choices and consquences for making your colonies. It's different, but I think it will be a ton of fun.Sounds like they took the core concept and evolved it a bit more. I saw that you give your fleets missions rather than controlling them directly which is very nice, I got so tired of controlling manually every single scout, refuelling tanker, etc.
Post by: Shades on October 29, 2011, 03:24:55 am
I like the old queue system better.
Although I guess they needed to match the whole fleet control thing better.
Post by: Cheese on October 29, 2011, 05:52:17 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2011, 06:17:36 am
Do they still have that weird invoicing thing when building ships?The queue system was inefficient for large orders though since you pay up front and then lose out on the interest that money would have made sitting in your treasury, which meant it was more efficient to order 1-2 ships at a time which was annoying.
I like the old queue system better.
Although I guess they needed to match the whole fleet control thing better.
Post by: Shades on October 29, 2011, 07:52:31 am
The queue system was inefficient for large orders though since you pay up front and then lose out on the interest that money would have made sitting in your treasury, which meant it was more efficient to order 1-2 ships at a time which was annoying.
True, does the invoice system improve on that though?
I'll have to get the update this evening when I get home from work and see what it's like :)
Post by: inteuniso on October 29, 2011, 08:16:21 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2011, 10:40:10 am
As far as I can see, you pay per ship completed rather than it immediately taking the money out when you submit the invoice. The money doesn't vanish from your treasury and sit in escrow for several years, you pay when the work is done instead. And as inteuniso said, you can save an invoice and order it up again later. I went through and worked out my standard colony, survey and construction fleets at the start and now all I have to do is put through an invoice to get a fleet, no click click clicking.The queue system was inefficient for large orders though since you pay up front and then lose out on the interest that money would have made sitting in your treasury, which meant it was more efficient to order 1-2 ships at a time which was annoying.
True, does the invoice system improve on that though?
I'll have to get the update this evening when I get home from work and see what it's like :)
The fleet management took some time to get used to but I think I like it. Fleets are based out of naval stations now and not free to go flying all over the place without a supply base. It inserts a lot of strategic thinking. You may want a system not because it has nice planets but because of its positioning so you can insert a forward supply base there and extend your range.
Post by: Reiina on October 29, 2011, 11:56:11 am
Apparently there is quite a few issues at release:
-Sound cutting every 10 mins(may be only a few configurations but from what I read it's quite common)
-Broken encyclopedia
-Lack of tooltip/documentation
-UI issues
-Some crashes
-Lots of little bugs
Apparently from what I read they had 3 developement period extensions granted by paradox but didn't manage to finish the game and paradox finally put his foot down and released(can't really blame paradox)...
Anyway it looks like it will need a few months of fixing before it becomes enjoyable at this point.
Post by: Jay on October 29, 2011, 12:50:52 pm
According to my sources, the data to download for the patch was actually larger than the initial game download.
Whoops.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2011, 12:52:38 pm
They released a day 0 patch.Source? Because the game itself is ~4.5 GB and I haven't downloaded a patch larger than that. I did download a 16MB patch earlier today for it...
According to my sources, the data to download for the patch was actually larger than the initial game download.
Whoops.
Post by: Lord Snow on October 29, 2011, 12:55:15 pm
They released a day 0 patch.Wouldnt know about that, the first thing i downloaded came from Gamersgate being 1.6 or 1.5gb in size.
According to my sources, the data to download for the patch was actually larger than the initial game download.
Whoops.
It did little more than launch steam and let me activate the game there, resulting in steam to completly ignore the downloaded files, proceeding to get its own 4-odd gb download.
It did patch later, making basicly another full download... that would be them releasing the actual release version (however unfinished that actually is) in place of the accidently placed beta version (it seems my call on this being beta was perfectly accurate xD)
Now they're gonna do actual patching, and downloads are likely to be smaller.
Post by: Jay on October 29, 2011, 12:57:31 pm
Did you... Actually download it before said patch? It would stand to reason that you wouldn't notice it if it were applied before you even had the game downloaded :PThey released a day 0 patch.Source? Because the game itself is ~4.5 GB and I haven't downloaded a patch larger than that. I did download a 16MB patch earlier today for it...
According to my sources, the data to download for the patch was actually larger than the initial game download.
Whoops.
EDIT: That 1.6 stands at approximately exactly the original release size.
The patch was 1.9, which seemingly leaves room for decompression bloat to achieve that 4.5GB. Somehow.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2011, 01:00:01 pm
Yes I did. I think what you're referring to was the release build. The older beta build was put up first by mistake and then the release build was put up hours later which necessitated a redownload. There was no 'zero-day patch larger than the game' though.Did you... Actually download it before said patch? It would stand to reason that you wouldn't notice it if it were applied before you even had the game downloaded :PThey released a day 0 patch.Source? Because the game itself is ~4.5 GB and I haven't downloaded a patch larger than that. I did download a 16MB patch earlier today for it...
According to my sources, the data to download for the patch was actually larger than the initial game download.
Whoops.
Post by: Jay on October 29, 2011, 01:02:40 pm
Yes I did. I think what you're referring to was the release buildI cannae explain 'ow a ~1.9 GB build could possibly bloat to 4+GB, cap'n
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 29, 2011, 01:06:04 pm
Are you being cute? In any case the installed footprint of the game from steam is... -checks- ...8.4GB. That is of course with the game currently running and several saves I've been working on, so I don't know how much of that is after the fact. The download from steam for BOTH releases was around 4+GB.Yes I did. I think what you're referring to was the release buildI cannae explain 'ow a ~1.9 GB build could possibly bloat to 4+GB, cap'n
Post by: BurnedToast on October 29, 2011, 01:31:37 pm
I'd also like to see a demo first... it sounds like they have changed a LOT and some of the changes don't sound good to me. I'd absolutely hate to have another MoO3 on my hands.
Edit: heh, it seems like it's so bad paradox (the publisher) is offering refunds for people who want them. Definitely glad I didn't click that preorder button now.
Post by: Viken on October 29, 2011, 01:47:36 pm
Post by: RedKing on October 29, 2011, 02:11:51 pm
That said, I'm peronally holding off till it's on sale and/or has an expansion pack out. I was underwhelmed by the original SOTS until the add-on packs started coming out. Now it's one of my favorites.
Post by: Lord Snow on October 29, 2011, 02:21:13 pm
any of you know about it? Searched my steam folders, doesnt appear to come with the game?
Post by: Sinned on October 29, 2011, 02:40:43 pm
Anywho, here is the link, http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566832-Manual&s=a1cda8a4f291beedd157ddef7be9580a
Also, they updated it again, small patch, small fixes.
Wow, I'm really disappointed in this release/game, but seeing how they supported Sots1, I still got some hope left they will patch it up nicely the coming months.
Post by: BigD145 on October 29, 2011, 04:43:39 pm
Post by: Lord Snow on October 30, 2011, 06:32:37 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In short, they'll hang in there but it will take time (month being mentioned, months being hinted). Besides the fixing and filling out of promised features, there will be maps, badges, portraits etc weekly... and you can grab a free copy of SOTS 1 for the time being.
Or get a refund, if you're not trusting em.
I'm staying with it. Love everything that is there at the moment. Ships themselves, design, new research with feasibility, mission based fleet control, star systems, bases... its all evolved but still familiar and cozy to me.
Not like i'm PLAYING it at the moment, but damn. It's not like it's the only game i own and it has to work NOW.
Post by: Felius on October 30, 2011, 06:41:59 pm
That said, kudos to Mecron for assuming full responsibility.
Post by: timferius on October 30, 2011, 06:44:55 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2011, 06:46:09 pm
Is the game worth playing now? I bought it before realizing exavtly what was going on. Ill wait for them either way, just curious if i should bother booting it up now.It is playable but has some issues.
Post by: Comp112 on October 30, 2011, 07:04:13 pm
Needless to say I crash every game I play.
Post by: timferius on October 30, 2011, 07:12:40 pm
Post by: Orb on October 30, 2011, 07:15:01 pm
I notice on low texture settings it tends to crash...a lot.
Though, what I see with the game already shows promise. Treating it as a beta, or even an alpha, I feel it has the framework to turn into something truly great. Guess I'll have to wait a month to see what it was supposed to be.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2011, 07:19:10 pm
Some issues is a bit of an understatement.It varies quite a lot from person to person. I'm on turn 203 of a game now and have only crashed once.
Needless to say I crash every game I play.
Post by: Logical2u on October 30, 2011, 10:54:29 pm
I was playing the tutorial as Liir vs. Human normal AI, and, it being my first game, I thought the light emitters sounded good, so I researched them. In combat, they tore up destroyers like paper, assuming I had at least as many destroyers at them. But once the enemy got to cruisers, those emitters were basically worthless. In fact, it seems in combat, a ship is only really effective versus its class or lighter. I at that point switched my emitters to UV lasers, in an attempt to deal more damage, and it was only partially effective. Is there any way to beat a cruiser with a small group of destroyers, and any suggestions for good early-mid game weapons? I'm thinking for Liir emitters or beams work as good targets, depending on the fleet composition of your enemy.
Likewise, early on it seemed like the AI was using mainly kinetic weapons - missiles, gauss cannons, the like, but I had no way to be sure because I didn't have the Tech-Intel research. Is there any way to tell beyond just zooming in or getting that intel?
Because of this 'observation', I switched to the kinetic-absorbing armour, but considering how easily they were torn to shreds by beam-equipped cruisers later on, I suddenly wasn't sure if the armor was worth it. Any opinions?
Of course, now that it's my second game I'm starting to figure out more things (like set ships to broadside firing for most circumstances, focus on colonization upgrades for a while to save money/time, keep your balance in the green to prevent rebellions), although there's still plenty to learn.
(Also, does the AI respect jammers? As in, does it cheat and know fleet composition even if there's a jammer with it? It seemed like the AI never used jammers/CNC ships during my fights, but then again it had a ball of cruisers and moves about 3x faster than my ships did, maybe it thought jammers were irrelevant.)
Post by: RulerOfNothing on October 30, 2011, 10:57:51 pm
Post by: Simmura McCrea on October 31, 2011, 03:11:48 am
Post by: Shades on October 31, 2011, 04:45:46 am
But is of fun?
It's somewhat fun I think.
There are some issues you'll need to avoid, such as hivers not automatically using gates like the previous game, and trade seeming to be utterly broken.
I'm also finding the implementation of the mission system a drag, the idea is good but an extra screen or two each time you want to send a fleet out is getting to be a bore.
There also doesn't appear to be a nice way to find idle fleets, not that have ever got a new captain so appear limited to 7 fleets.
All that said I'm still playing it rather than going back to the first one.
Post by: BigD145 on October 31, 2011, 09:34:56 am
But is of fun?and trade seeming to be utterly broken.
You can't build small freighters because they are cost 0 and take infinite time to build. Build orders are screwed up. I finally got a buildable freighter and can't figure out how to make them do anything.
Wait a month to play.
Post by: timferius on October 31, 2011, 09:59:22 am
Post by: RedKing on October 31, 2011, 10:11:31 am
Post by: SeaBee on October 31, 2011, 10:13:20 am
So many important fundamentals appear to be missing or not "wired up" in the code. Can they fix it in a month? Guess we'll see.
Looking forward to seeing how today's patch goes. Apparently it'll be up on Steam sometime "mid-morning PST."
I want to believe.
Post by: Jopax on October 31, 2011, 10:21:23 am
Post by: hemmingjay on October 31, 2011, 10:30:14 am
Post by: Smitehappy on October 31, 2011, 10:32:30 am
From what I heard SoT2 has the opposite problem. I'm much more inclined to buy a fun, bug-ridden game with the promise of patching then a boring, stable game. Plus Kerberos has a great track record when it comes to improvements and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Post by: SeaBee on October 31, 2011, 10:53:59 am
And I do agree, Smitehappy, that the core gameplay sounds really fun/interesting, whereas Elemental just wasn't (at all, and I'm still cranky about it). Really hoping the technical bits get patched up so we can see the Real Deal.
Related note: the manual has just been updated and is available for download from Pardox Plaza (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566832-Manual&s=0d80ee5d88d4533f9aad1dad3a00f79d).
Post by: BigD145 on October 31, 2011, 11:20:28 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 31, 2011, 11:20:54 am
That said, Kerberos was in a 'release or let die' situation with the publisher afaik and I'm glad they released it rather than letting SOTS2 die out completely. Hopefully the initial monies will let them finish it.
That said, I am a bit pissed at them for deceiving us. They should have stated right out that it was an unfinished game rather than leading up to a release day with videos and footage which don't reflect the current state of the game at all. In the videos you see ships diving and rolling around each other in combat, which they don't do on their own. In SOTS I could give my fleet a general attack order and let them do their thing while I concentrated on a part of the fleet to control manually. In SOTS2 (currently) they won't even move without you clicking.
And yes, the manual is useless, tiny and annoying.
Post by: Orb on October 31, 2011, 02:24:52 pm
Post by: Fikes on October 31, 2011, 02:34:47 pm
I finally picked up SotS. I was worried it was going to be one of those games with too many mechanics and too little direction, but I was (mostly) pleasantly surprised. It isn't difficult to be "okay" at the game; you aren't going to mess up your colonies or your empire beyond repair through experimentation. That being said, the game could do a way better job at explaining some things, like the difference between command modules.
Overall I like it, well worth my 5 bucks.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 31, 2011, 03:07:00 pm
That being said, the game could do a way better job at explaining some things, like the difference between command modules.
Do you have any specific questions? I've played SOTS1 for quite a while and can provide insights.
Edit: BTW there was a 130MB patch today for SOTS2. Anyone checked it out?
Post by: warhammer651 on October 31, 2011, 03:42:14 pm
Post by: Sinned on October 31, 2011, 03:43:56 pm
Ah well, I'm gonna wait a few weeks and then give it another go (or a mega patch/announcement lures me back sooner). Kerb can have my cash for now, seeing their track record and great support for Sots1.
Post by: Android on October 31, 2011, 04:54:44 pm
I REALLY don't like the goddamn mission system, it makes assembling fleets more convoluted than it should be, unless all ships are being built on the same planet. It basically mandates that every system have a fleet base station so you can relocate
That was somewhat the intent - It was designed for you to make decisions to make worlds forge or gem worlds, and you are not meant to spam ships like in sots1 anymore.
I rather like the mission system, but the limitation on admirals is what is irking me right now (not enough of them to do the things i want to do), but i cant really say that doesnt fix itself by end game because i only got to turn 42 before i could not progress due to CTDs or persistent sound crashes.
Post by: Sinned on October 31, 2011, 06:44:35 pm
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?567753-Official-info-IV-%28Monday-Oct-31%29&s=13baafddaa64c3afbc3a80860484ee4c
Post by: KatalDT on October 31, 2011, 07:01:30 pm
Post by: KatalDT on November 06, 2011, 10:14:17 pm
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?568872-List-of-gamecontent-that-does-not-work-at-the-moment&s=e254b414d5b72f5d8fcae3aa3c9349e7
But that list is still really big. :(
Post by: Fikes on November 07, 2011, 01:34:13 am
That being said, the game could do a way better job at explaining some things, like the difference between command modules.
Do you have any specific questions? I've played SOTS1 for quite a while and can provide insights.
When do you start building combat craft? When do you start going against planetary defenses like the swarm? How do you equip your main combat craft? Is there any way to take over planets or do you just bomb them to death?
I had a decent game going, but I think I slacked too much on aircraft upgrades. I was wining the war with my purple lasers until they came at me with heavy emitters.
Post by: Mini on November 07, 2011, 02:20:09 am
Is there any way to take over planets or do you just bomb them to death?Yes, it's one of the higher translation techs. If you have a large enough fleet (compared to the enemy fleet, if they have a stong fleet there then it's highly unlikely for them to surrender) at an enemy planet it will give you the option to demand the planet surrenders. I don't know how large your fleet needs to be for it to work, but it needs to be pretty big.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 07, 2011, 03:49:07 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2011, 07:49:15 am
When do you start building combat craft?I build a small fleet of armor destroyers right away just in case I get hit with asteroids or something.
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When do you start going against planetary defenses like the swarm?For Swarm I'll usually hit them once I have PD tech and UV lasers. With a good fleet of PD destroyers and UV-armed armors you can take out a swarm hive.
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How do you equip your main combat craft?Depends entirely on what my enemy is doing and what techs I roll. If possible my ideal destroyer fit is AI fire control, armor mission section and antimatter drive with antimatter cannons in the medium slots and a mix of pulse phasers and PD phasers in the smalls. You have to be flexible in this game, you may not even get some or any of those techs.
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Is there any way to take over planets or do you just bomb them to death?When you bombard a planet you will kill the imperial population off first and the game will ask if you want to continue bombarding and kill the civilians too. If you leave the civilians alive you can recolonize the planet and have the established civilian population join your empire.
Be warned: If you do this before you have habitation tech for that race and you start terraforming the planet away from that race's ideal, you will start killing them by the millions.
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I had a decent game going, but I think I slacked too much on aircraft upgrades. I was wining the war with my purple lasers until they came at me with heavy emitters.Emitters are devastating to close-packed formations and destroyer swarms but less useful against cruisers/dreads and absolutely shit at bombarding planets. If you roll energy absorber tech or EM shielding tech (EM shielding is above the 2nd reflective coating tech) then that will cut emitter damage by a lot. Emitters iirc aren't very good against shields either.
Post by: timferius on November 07, 2011, 08:51:16 am
Be warned: If you do this before you have habitation tech for that race and you start terraforming the planet away from that race's ideal, you will start killing them by the millions.
This is a problem?
Post by: shadenight123 on November 07, 2011, 08:57:11 am
but i'll wait. sooner or later, they will fix this.
till then, tomorrow it's fragfest day, and in five days it's dragon killing day, so i'll be fine. really. no mass extermination at the moment of entire galactical civilizations, but i'll get there. ne day.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2011, 09:04:06 am
If you are trying to take the planet with its people alive, yes...
Be warned: If you do this before you have habitation tech for that race and you start terraforming the planet away from that race's ideal, you will start killing them by the millions.
This is a problem?
Post by: Shades on November 07, 2011, 09:24:34 am
In theory naval bases should let you do that but I can't seen to work out what set of modules / size of base is needed for this to be true.
A single colony lets small fleets relocate, and a single colony with a zero module naval base allows much larger fleets to relocate.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2011, 10:58:18 am
Post by: Shadowlord on November 07, 2011, 11:23:09 am
Light emitters make short work of swarm, though you may want other weapons (missiles are enough, generally) to take out the hive queen.QuoteWhen do you start going against planetary defenses like the swarm?For Swarm I'll usually hit them once I have PD tech and UV lasers. With a good fleet of PD destroyers and UV-armed armors you can take out a swarm hive.
Post by: Rakonas on November 07, 2011, 09:27:29 pm
Hold on, buying the game right now. 8)
Be warned: If you do this before you have habitation tech for that race and you start terraforming the planet away from that race's ideal, you will start killing them by the millions.
This is a problem?
Post by: Fikes on November 09, 2011, 02:00:59 pm
For example, there is some random chance that any planet will be hostile. That chance doesn't seem to change with how far the planet is from your homeworld. That means that human's (who travel on specific paths) can be stuck on their homeworld with their only node connection being to a hostile planet.
One of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.
I understand and somewhat enjoy the "not sure what comes next" of the tech tree, but it makes getting into the game almost impossible. I've played 10 hours and only just realized that FTL Ecnomics (a huge important technology that enables trade) comes after an unimportant technology I never bothered to research.
Finally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.
When the wiki is down (and it is regularly) there is almost no way to get information on the game.
Post by: shadenight123 on November 09, 2011, 02:06:53 pm
everytime i had weapons i could clearly see the four columns of damage-range-recharge time-fourth i can't recall.
and in construction, pressing the circled I gave another outlook on the components.
i foudn it fascinating not to know what a researc would do on the battlefield until tested out.
it was FUN! XD
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 09, 2011, 02:10:42 pm
For example, there is some random chance that any planet will be hostile. That chance doesn't seem to change with how far the planet is from your homeworld. That means that human's (who travel on specific paths) can be stuck on their homeworld with their only node connection being to a hostile planet.Yes, that is the nature of truly random maps. You can turn the random events off or down if you want but planet size/resources/habitability is always randomized. There is a tourney space scenario if you want where everything is exactly equal for all people.
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One of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.Yes, so you'd have to use a slightly less effective method of killing the swarm... You can still do it. I've taken out swarm colonies before without having PD tech, it just helps. Also phaser PD isn't affected by your chance at getting PD tech so you might roll that one.
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I understand and somewhat enjoy the "not sure what comes next" of the tech tree, but it makes getting into the game almost impossible. I've played 10 hours and only just realized that FTL Ecnomics (a huge important technology that enables trade) comes after an unimportant technology I never bothered to research.Well now you know for next time, I guess? You're complaining that you didn't know important technologies could be further up the tech tree beyond a seemingly unimportant one?
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Finally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.What? Any tech that grants a weapon should have a stat card showing the weapon's stats...
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When the wiki is down (and it is regularly) there is almost no way to get information on the game.Wiki is down because it's being hammered by people who just bought SOTS2. You could always play to figure stuff out, or ask here or whatever.
It seems like you don't like:
1. The random nature of the game.
2. The fact that you don't already know everything about it.
1 is an intentional decision on the dev's part, not a lack of testing. They wanted the game to be different each playthrough. You can turn the random events off if you don't like them, and there are ways to make the tech tree nonrandom as well. I believe you just have to modify some text files. The game was made with multiplayer in mind though, and the randomness keeps it fresh and interesting. You cannot always follow the optimal tech path and you will have to deal with obstacles in your way as you expand due to random encounters/events. This is part of the challenge.
I can help you with 2 but only if you ask questions.
Post by: Metalax on November 09, 2011, 02:41:49 pm
You can also roll for point defence missiles which are also unaffected by rolling/failing to roll normal point defence tech.One of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.Yes, so you'd have to use a slightly less effective method of killing the swarm... You can still do it. I've taken out swarm colonies before without having PD tech, it just helps. Also phaser PD isn't affected by your chance at getting PD tech so you might roll that one.
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They all do, though the card is not always particularly helpful in comparing the actual difference in effectivness of each weapon.QuoteFinally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.What? Any tech that grants a weapon should have a stat card showing the weapon's stats...
Post by: Smitehappy on November 09, 2011, 02:58:54 pm
Post by: shadenight123 on November 09, 2011, 03:03:13 pm
You know a good early counter to the swarm? Tankers. Just ram one down the Queens/Hives throat (escorted by an Armor Destroyer or two to catch the swarm's fire) and watch the fireworks.
oh yes. i discovered that by chance and must say: it's pure gold.
you know what a bang a refinery goes when it's hit?! XD BUUUUUM
Post by: Sergius on November 09, 2011, 05:07:37 pm
You know a good early counter to the swarm? Tankers. Just ram one down the Queens/Hives throat (escorted by an Armor Destroyer or two to catch the swarm's fire) and watch the fireworks.
So THAT's why my tankers always won vs. swarms when I pressed autocombat...
OTOH they always succeed at capturing asteroid or derelicts, I think.
Post by: sneakey pete on November 09, 2011, 05:15:35 pm
Post by: Orb on November 09, 2011, 05:17:43 pm
100% chance to research the point defense tech for all races to the best of my memory.
Zuul has a 75%, I'm pretty sure.
Post by: Fikes on November 09, 2011, 07:13:02 pm
For example, there is some random chance that any planet will be hostile. That chance doesn't seem to change with how far the planet is from your homeworld. That means that human's (who travel on specific paths) can be stuck on their homeworld with their only node connection being to a hostile planet.Yes, that is the nature of truly random maps. You can turn the random events off or down if you want but planet size/resources/habitability is always randomized. There is a tourney space scenario if you want where everything is exactly equal for all people.QuoteOne of the hostile planet types can have the swarm. The best way to kill the swarm is with point defense. The problem is that the technology tree is also random. There is a chance you won't get point defense at all (I think). The worst part is that you don't even know if you will get a technology untill you research all the pre-reqs.Yes, so you'd have to use a slightly less effective method of killing the swarm... You can still do it. I've taken out swarm colonies before without having PD tech, it just helps. Also phaser PD isn't affected by your chance at getting PD tech so you might roll that one.
I have nothing against random maps, I take exception with poor random map generation, which is what I feel SOTS has. Running into swarm on the only planet you have access to is broken.
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QuoteI understand and somewhat enjoy the "not sure what comes next" of the tech tree, but it makes getting into the game almost impossible. I've played 10 hours and only just realized that FTL Ecnomics (a huge important technology that enables trade) comes after an unimportant technology I never bothered to research.Well now you know for next time, I guess? You're complaining that you didn't know important technologies could be further up the tech tree beyond a seemingly unimportant one?
Yes. I have at least 10 hours logged in the game and I am litterally figuring out BASIC information from the WIKI. The only way to learn what techs are in the game is to play it a dozen times and hope you hit every tree or read the wiki.
This same exact thing happened with tankers. I had a fleet of cruisers supported by 35 destoryer tankers because I didn't know that a refinery served that purpose. It is never stated in the game.
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Complete lack was a stupid thing to say. What I mean is clicking on a tech or a race gives you more backstory than information about what it does. Most guns do have a card, yes, but a lot of other technologies lack information. I still can't figure out how to get drones to fight in combat. I don't have an easy way to tell what the purpose of ship sections are. I can't figure out the prereqresits for anything....QuoteFinally, there is a complete lack of presented information. Some times technologies will give you a new weapon but won't give you the stats on the weapons.What? Any tech that grants a weapon should have a stat card showing the weapon's stats...
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QuoteWhen the wiki is down (and it is regularly) there is almost no way to get information on the game.Wiki is down because it's being hammered by people who just bought SOTS2. You could always play to figure stuff out, or ask here or whatever.
Everyone who bought the game is forced to go to the wiki, not for stragety or builds, but basic, simple information. I can play to figure stuff out, but I may not ever know there is point defense because I didn't roll it the first time I got VRF techs.
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It seems like you don't like:
1. The random nature of the game.
2. The fact that you don't already know everything about it.
1 is an intentional decision on the dev's part, not a lack of testing. They wanted the game to be different each playthrough. You can turn the random events off if you don't like them, and there are ways to make the tech tree nonrandom as well. I believe you just have to modify some text files. The game was made with multiplayer in mind though, and the randomness keeps it fresh and interesting. You cannot always follow the optimal tech path and you will have to deal with obstacles in your way as you expand due to random encounters/events. This is part of the challenge.
I can help you with 2 but only if you ask questions.
I think in general my problem is that we have no exposure to the mechanics. Even a simple system that said "Hey, you saw the aliens had access to this tech, here is where it would be on the tech tree, even though you can't access it" would go a long ways to making your first few games a learning expereince.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 09, 2011, 07:48:22 pm
I have nothing against random maps, I take exception with poor random map generation, which is what I feel SOTS has. Running into swarm on the only planet you have access to is broken.This statement is illogical. Random maps are random. They are not weighted for fair play, they are random. You might end up in an area with no habitable planets, or surrounded by alien derelicts. Deal with it or turn the random encounters off.
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Yes. I have at least 10 hours logged in the game and I am litterally figuring out BASIC information from the WIKI. The only way to learn what techs are in the game is to play it a dozen times and hope you hit every tree or read the wiki.Really? I mean I guess I've been playing a while but I never looked at the Wiki personally. And refineries are explained ingame if you click the circled "i" information button on the design screen. It tells you what every section does.
This same exact thing happened with tankers. I had a fleet of cruisers supported by 35 destoryer tankers because I didn't know that a refinery served that purpose. It is never stated in the game.
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Complete lack was a stupid thing to say. What I mean is clicking on a tech or a race gives you more backstory than information about what it does. Most guns do have a card, yes, but a lot of other technologies lack information. I still can't figure out how to get drones to fight in combat. I don't have an easy way to tell what the purpose of ship sections are. I can't figure out the prereqresits for anything....Drones should launch when the ship they're on attacks another ship. It happens automatically... if you're using assault shuttles just click the picture of the shuttle on the combat screen when you have the ships selected and they will all launch their shuttles. Drones are 100% autonomous, they attack the target of the mothership and return to refuel/rearm on their own.
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Everyone who bought the game is forced to go to the wiki, not for stragety or builds, but basic, simple information. I can play to figure stuff out, but I may not ever know there is point defense because I didn't roll it the first time I got VRF techs.Again, I never even used the wiki so I guess I don't know what you mean. I learned these things by playing and replaying the game. Sorry you're not enjoying it... people have made full tech tree diagrams though. One of the first on a google search was this one: Diagram (http://chariot.nickersonm.com/ANY_TechTree.html) It even links back to the wiki, assuming it is up.
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I think in general my problem is that we have no exposure to the mechanics. Even a simple system that said "Hey, you saw the aliens had access to this tech, here is where it would be on the tech tree, even though you can't access it" would go a long ways to making your first few games a learning expereince.Well you can see visible technologies used in battles on the battle reports and if you research data correlation it will track known designations and observed weapon load-outs for enemies as well as observed ship locations. There are also techs to let you map out zuul and human node lines, and a tech that integrates all your ship's sensors on the sensor manager as well as one which allows you to give orders from the sensor manager.
Post by: Flare on November 09, 2011, 09:41:02 pm
I have nothing against random maps, I take exception with poor random map generation, which is what I feel SOTS has. Running into swarm on the only planet you have access to is broken.
Unforgiving might be a better term than broken, it is different in terms of degree not in kind. I've had this happen to me in the first game as well, though by that time I had come to appreciated the elements in the game to overcome it.
But above all, remember. You're a DF player. You've played DF. You've dealt with cataclysm and incomprehensible disaster before. Your tolerance for this type of cataclysmic randomness should be higher than your average high-school CoD player, not to mention your ability to find a way past this sort of thing :P.
Post by: nenjin on November 09, 2011, 09:45:46 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 09, 2011, 09:57:50 pm
Got intrigued by reading through the thread. How does SotS 1 complete stack up against Gal Civ 2 complete? Because I really liked Gal Civ 2 up until the end when I realized how shallow it ultimately was. Is SotS 1 complete worth the $20 it's going for on Steam?SOTS1 complete is worth $20 yes. :) You won't regret buying it, honestly.
I am a pretty picky gamer and I have over 200 hours racked up on SOTS1
Post by: Comp112 on November 09, 2011, 10:26:10 pm
Post by: Fikes on November 09, 2011, 11:10:54 pm
Personally I really disliked GalCiv. It had the same kind of lack of information problem as SOTS but on a much larger scale. There were like 8 different buildings you could build on your planets but it was really hard to tell what they did and I constantly got the idea I was building the wrong one.
If you liked GalCiv or MOO, you'll probably like SOTS.
Post by: BurnedToast on November 10, 2011, 12:03:43 am
SotS 1 is great. There are very frustrating things (why does trade require so much micromanagement, why are the weapons so poorly balanced, why does the boost research button even exist? etc) but it's really fun. I think I've played something like 350 hours, so yeah. Well worth $20.
Post by: timferius on November 10, 2011, 05:18:18 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 10, 2011, 05:34:24 am
Post by: KatalDT on November 10, 2011, 08:36:54 pm
Really boring to take out swarms when my point defense takes out all the swarmers, then I have to wait a few minutes for my missiles to finish off the hive.
Edit: Yay, found it - ctrl+pageup/pagedown!
Post by: BurnedToast on November 10, 2011, 09:25:39 pm
But but... The slider is the percentage of your workforce working in each industry. You cant have 100 percent of your people working in both......... That would make no sense!
I'm.... not sure if you are serous or joking...
You can have one planet with 100% labs (so no factories for anyone to work in) and one planet with 100% factories (no labs to work in) but it's impossible to make everyone on the lab planet work in labs and everyone in the factory planet work in factories. Furthermore planting down farms to grow more people does not make any difference, if you can run all your labs with 100 million people, increasing that to 200 million won't let you run your labs and factories (and also won't make the labs work any faster).
Post by: Shadowlord on November 10, 2011, 09:45:29 pm
You might want to try the liir for your first several games, since they have a higher chance to have techs available than everyone else and research faster, and you'll be able to unlock more things and see what they do. If you play on easy you'll be able to take a look at everything and play around. That should help with finding useful stuff like data correlation and freighters/trade, seeing what leads to cruisers and dreadnoughts, command ships, and so on.
Post by: timferius on November 11, 2011, 05:14:36 am
But but... The slider is the percentage of your workforce working in each industry. You cant have 100 percent of your people working in both......... That would make no sense!
I'm.... not sure if you are serous or joking...
You can have one planet with 100% labs (so no factories for anyone to work in) and one planet with 100% factories (no labs to work in) but it's impossible to make everyone on the lab planet work in labs and everyone in the factory planet work in factories. Furthermore planting down farms to grow more people does not make any difference, if you can run all your labs with 100 million people, increasing that to 200 million won't let you run your labs and factories (and also won't make the labs work any faster).
Ahh... Never thought of it that way, touche.
Post by: nenjin on November 11, 2011, 07:22:26 am
But seriously. This game has some of the worst sound effects and voice overs. Ever. The UI and overall art style also really, really isn't my cup of tea. One day, someone is going to make a space 4x game, and it's going to have races that are actually interesting and novel. The Morrigi are kind of cool, but other than them I feel like who ever plotted the races and the look of this game spent FAR too much time as a kid playing with those little Beast War figures. Let's just put apes, lizards, dolphins and bird people in armor. That's space-y, right?
I can see why this game pisses some people off though. The Menaces are irritating and getting one at the wrong time feels like you're getting screwed.
Also, is there a better way to protect your freighters? I get raiders and every time it likes to put my fleet on the opposite side of the planet as the freighters.
Post by: Flare on November 11, 2011, 07:33:26 am
But seriously. This game has some of the worst sound effects and voice overs. Ever. The UI and overall art style also really, really isn't my cup of tea. One day, someone is going to make a space 4x game, and it's going to have races that are actually interesting and novel. The Morrigi are kind of cool, but other than them I feel like who ever plotted the races and the look of this game spent FAR too much time as a kid playing with those little Beast War figures. Let's just put apes, lizards, dolphins and bird people in armor. That's space-y, right?
Intergalactic system devouring polyp anyone? Blasting giant walls of flesh with nukes.
Post by: Shades on November 11, 2011, 07:50:01 am
One day, someone is going to make a space 4x game, and it's going to have races that are actually interesting and novel.
Starcontrol 2 like?
Post by: RedKing on November 11, 2011, 10:24:13 am
The actual gun I ran into that did not have a 4 stat card was the "Armor piercing rounds", which turns out to be a gun instead of rounds.
Not exactly. It's a modifier that allows you to make standard mass driver weapons into AP mass drivers. Basically, they'll do considerably less damage but have better range and accuracy, anda considerably lessened chance to deflect off armor (yes, gauss rounds can bounce off armor, doing almost no damage. Chance increases with the quality of the armor). Example:
Heavy Driver: 450 damage, 1050 range, 4-7deg accuracy penalty (basically, the actual shot will be 4-7 degrees off the intended line of fire)
AP Heavy Driver: 250 damage, 1350 range, 1deg accuracy penalty
The SOTS Wiki is a godsend in terms of understanding the mechanics of the game. They also have some excellent tech tree charts that show you the percentage chance for each tech to be available per race. Liir tend to get almost all the energy weapon, biowarfare and shield techs, but are kinda limited in the ballistics. Hiver get good ballistics and missiles, limited energy weapons, almost no shields. Tarkas get primarily energy, but it's fairly balanced. Humans get primarily ballistics and energy torpedos, but again fairly balanced (and usually do well in the "plasma cannon" part of the energy tree). Morrigi get primarily energy weapons, and IIRC are guaranteed beamers, which are a very nice weapon for drones. They also get some late-game gravity weapons, and almost always gets cloaking. Zuul get crap rolls on most tech beyond the basics, which provides the incentive to go out and carve up some enemies and salvage the debris in order to steal tech. They also get no biological warfare tech, but at the same time they're immune to biowarfare. And they have a pretty high chance of getting Graviton Beams if they can make it to late-game, plus a lot of "trick" weapons like Thumpers, Gravity Mines, Implosion Mines, Disruptor Whips, and Shield Breakers. I'm not particularly fond of playing the Zuul myself because they require an aggressive, expansionist player, which I'm not. But if played well, they're downright terrifying.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2011, 10:31:10 am
(yes, gauss rounds can bounce off armor, doing almost no damage. Chance increases with the quality of the armor)The angle of impact has a lot to do with it too. Shallow angles will bounce a lot more often, especially on good armor.
Post by: BurnedToast on November 11, 2011, 01:15:24 pm
Long version - regular drivers do a lot more damage, but with significantly less range and accuracy they end up doing less over time - add in the fact that manetoceramic (lvl 2) and higher armor makes even heavy drivers bounce off depressingly frequently and the AI *ALWAYS* puts it's best armor on and most races have decent chance at magnetoceramics means your regular mass drivers are almost useless.
You will also see special weapons such as bursters or stormers or shotgun drivers - don't ever use them. There's no AP version, and they have an even higher bounce chance then regular mass drivers meaning even level 1 armor (which is almost 100% chance for everyone on the techtree) makes them bounce a depressingly large amount, and higher levels of armor are practically immune to them.
(this is part of what I meant by bad weapon balance)
Also, zuul are not downright terrifying... in anything but an incredibly small deathmatch style map with like 4 stars per player or something they are horribly underpowered. They were nerfed at one point directly, and then with AMoC they were indirectly nerfed hard because they don't have civilians (who add massive amounts of income and I/O to planets for free) and can't do trade (which can very, very easily double or triple your income).
The advantages they get don't even come close to making up for that. Slaves? barely worth the racial researches to get the death rate down. Biowar immunity? who cares when a fleet of cruisers can glass a planet in a minute or two? all those fun gimmick weapons? who cares when you've got the worst research rate in the whole game combined with the worst income so you won't ever see the top of the techtree where they sit unless you purposely draw the game out just to play with them?
Play zuul for a challenge, they are the hard mode of SotS.
Post by: Shades on November 11, 2011, 02:23:22 pm
Long version - regular drivers do a lot more damage, but with significantly less range and accuracy they end up doing less over time
As a, very minor, counter to this AP drivers also cause less deflection in the enemy ship and with 'normal' mass drivers it's possible to keep a enemy unable to bring heavy front facing weapons to bare.
It's very hard to do with the heavy dreadnoughts but smaller ships it's easier and is fun when you manage it. (I guess Fun when you don't)
Generally I'd agree with BurnedToast though.
Post by: Metalax on November 11, 2011, 02:50:36 pm
Also I've had quite a lot of luck using the sniper long range small cannons to kite the enemy, although the tactic doesn't work well when defending a planet that the enemy is focused on attacking.
Post by: Shadowlord on November 11, 2011, 03:08:55 pm
who cares when a fleet of cruisers can glass a planet in a minute or two?
I'd love to know how you do that. When I play Liir, it takes me ~20+ turns to wipe out all the Zuul on a planet just using bombardment, even if I'm disregarding the climate and letting the planet be glassed. (Of course, I never research projectile weapons, so perhaps that's the problem)
By the time my cruisers reach the planet, there's only 10 or so seconds (depending on ship speed) left in the combat, so I have to attack it over and over and over to amass a decent amount of damage to it. I can get a bit more time by changing the section types to one that's faster, but has less powerful weapons, but... eh. Frakking slow cruisers. Of course, this is on a map which has everything at the minimum distance, so it may be making Liir even slower than usual. I'm not sure.
(And yet I have to play each battle. If I use the autoresolve it goes LULZ YOU LOSE SHIPS even though I never do in the actual battles that I manually play. Autoresolve hates Liir. >_<)
Post by: Orb on November 11, 2011, 03:42:57 pm
The Zuul main advantage is, of course, overharvest and fast population growth. With about a loss of 200 resources to jump start a colony, you can have double, or even triple, the number of colonies of your opponents easily(something that I achieved frequently when playing against human opponents). Climate 400 colony? Big deal, you'll have it down to size in 10 turns.
With so many planets, it doesn't matter that you don't have a civilian population, your income will still be higher than everyone else's. This ignores the fact that Zuul start with 2 planets instead of 1, and that they get a freaking NODE CANNON at cruiser stage, which you should look up. Most OP weapon ever. ;)
Their jump system also allows them to create human node lines between any two planets, the best of any of the drive systems, for the most part. Exploration is a bit slow, but you can strike at any planet from any direction fast.
I could go on, like how their satellites and destroyers get 2 medium turrets, and have the fastest ships in the game, but I think you get the idea.
Post by: BurnedToast on November 11, 2011, 05:07:49 pm
As for environmental damage, honestly just don't use missiles - missiles (especially antimatter) will literally glass the planet and make it uninhabitable, but all the other guns are not so bad unless the planets start right on the edge (and even then, there's a 50% chance your environmental damage will push it closer to habitable)
And finally liir are just slow in a gravity well (slowest combat speeds iirc) because of their drive system which is probably why you have trouble getting to the planet in time.
Orb - yes you can claim colonies fast, but so can every other race - the AI is bad at colonization, it's not hard to be #1 for colonies unless the sadorandomizer *really* screws you over. Meanwhile you NEED double the colonies since due to civilians each one of their planets counts as at least two of yours (and yours tick down every turn)
Node cannon is overpowered against the AI, yeah I forgot about that. The ship is also extremely expensive (IIRC around half a million spacebucks for the cruiser version if you armor it and give it real guns) though and otherwise mostly useless in a fight and the cannon recharges slow. You could build a fleet of them but you'd be spending... a lot... otherwise it's just good for taking off a chunk of the first wave (after that, they are usually too close to your ships to use it again). I find it's drastically more useful on defense (have them chase a single cannon around the planet while their fleet eats missiles and node cannon blasts every time it recharges) then offense.
As for the FTL system, I hate it and think it's the worst of all FTL systems but I guess that's a matter of opinion. It combines all the bad of the human drive: can't refuel mid-flight (potential major problem early-mid game), have to deal with specters sometimes, can't realistically intercept other races, and can't fly in a straight line wherever they want (which partially negates the speed boost) but does not have the main advantage of the human drive (surprise attacks) because you need to use that stupid slow boreship first.
The ships... yeah. I do like their ships a lot, I don't think it makes up for the terrible strategic state of the race, but cheap fast (though fragile) ships strapped with more guns then you thought possible are lots of fun.
Post by: Daki on November 11, 2011, 05:33:27 pm
it's almost impossible to 'sneak' some bioweapons past the defenders - EVERYTHING targets those missiles as priority #1, the missiles can be blown up while still attached to the cruiser, they go slow, and if one missile in each 'bunch' blows up chances are it takes them all out.Use stealth cruisers with bioweapons - the AI most likely won't have good enough sensors to target them,so you can just speed up the battle,hover right beside the planet,and launch all of the biomissles 10-15 seconds prior the end of the battle. Even if he has some defense satelites, there's so many missles fired that almost 80% will hit the planet.
I use such stealth fleets all the time as Liir or Morrigi. All you need is some refinery ships,R&S cruisers,a CnC cruiser to support your assault ships. Before the enemy develops a cure for the plague,it's possible to take out 5-6 worlds(depending on your strategic speed).
Post by: BurnedToast on November 11, 2011, 05:52:47 pm
Regardless, my initial point was that the zuul immunity to bioweapons is not really much of an advantage - the AI rarely uses them to begin with and they NEVER try sneaky stuff like what you mentioned. Fun fact though: I have seen the AI *try* to use bio-weapons against zuul planets... never decided if that was a bug, or the computer being programmed to not meta-game.
Post by: Metalax on November 11, 2011, 06:02:31 pm
Post by: timferius on November 11, 2011, 08:02:55 pm
Post by: Lightning4 on November 11, 2011, 08:50:15 pm
As for the FTL system, I hate it and think it's the worst of all FTL systems but I guess that's a matter of opinion. It combines all the bad of the human drive: can't refuel mid-flight (potential major problem early-mid game), have to deal with specters sometimes, can't realistically intercept other races, and can't fly in a straight line wherever they want (which partially negates the speed boost) but does not have the main advantage of the human drive (surprise attacks) because you need to use that stupid slow boreship first.
Well, Zuul can still have surprise attacks, but are a bit quirkier with it compared to other races. You can still open up paths to other enemy planets to leave them guessing which one is going to be hit. You'll just have to sacrifice a few boreships to get that done. Once the ship arrives, the path is complete, even if it dies.
And then you won't need the boreship again until the path starts collapsing. The early Zuul speed advantage comes into play here.
Post by: nenjin on November 12, 2011, 12:03:57 am
I know the goal is to get as far away from micromanagement as possible, but it kind of kills the fun of larger games because every planet quickly gets reduced down to its most salient qualities, either when finding it or after terraforming. I wish more 4x games set planets up so they're each different from each other. This one has volcanoes, this one is a gas giant, this one has killer space bees, this one is made out of crystal, ect.... So boring to just turn each planet into a clone of the ones behind it.
Also, default resource values are way too high in SotS 1. There's like, almost no need to overharvest unless your back is against a wall, hence no reason to really mine. On the one hand, running out of resources no matter how your population is configured would suck. On the other hand, it's almost a meaningless resource. Maybe for the Zuul who get a boost to it, it might be worth it, but max overhavest whacked a few turns off making like 5 cruisers.
Post by: BurnedToast on November 12, 2011, 12:13:58 am
I guess you could use DE bore ships, but they are so slow slow and short ranged because you can't upgrade them from fission speed, plus you run into the max nodes per star limit easily.
Either way it's hardly a plus point in favor of the zuul FTL drive.
Fake edit: I agree with the exploration bit, MoO3 for all it's many, many, many flaws did terraforming/planet specials pretty well. To terraform red planets to perfect paradise planets required lots of tech deep in the tech tree, and had a maintenance cost to it once it was done - stop paying for the air generators and solar shields and the planet would slowly revert back to the hellhole it used to be. So you'd end up skipping over some planets, then coming back and getting say the yellow 1's after you got some terraform tech, then later when you got more getting the yellow 2's... etc. There were also lots of specials good and bad, some could be removed with terraforming and others could not.. etc. Shame the rest of the game was so poo.
As for SotS resources - that number is not just used to overharvest, it's also used to determine the I/O of a world. A size 5 wold with 10,000 resources will produce MUCH MUCH more I/O (and thus money for you) then the same world with 1,000 resources. So, high resource worlds are VERY important even if you never intend to overharvest.
Real edit: also there's a research midway up the tech tree (after asteroid mining) called mega-strip mining. It lets you overharvest LOTS more per turn, you can overharvest whole fleets out in just a few turns in an emergency. It really, really drains those resources though.
Post by: Lightning4 on November 12, 2011, 05:12:25 am
One thing this game is seriously lacking is any sort of "Oooh neat!" factor to exploration. It seems like almost no 4x games give stuff that level of attention, and the ones that do like Elemental blow it. I think it has a lot to do with Terraforming. Every designer treats terraforming like it makes every planet the exact same in a "macro" sense. When you're playing a space game, you want the planets themselves to be worth exploring. Planets and celestial bodies with standout, unique features beyond the typical "size, lethality, face indigenous population yes/no...."
I know the goal is to get as far away from micromanagement as possible, but it kind of kills the fun of larger games because every planet quickly gets reduced down to its most salient qualities, either when finding it or after terraforming. I wish more 4x games set planets up so they're each different from each other. This one has volcanoes, this one is a gas giant, this one has killer space bees, this one is made out of crystal, ect.... So boring to just turn each planet into a clone of the ones behind it.
The Space Empires series is probably the closest, since (especially with mods) planets can be pretty unique (beyond flavor text), and there's things to be found in the galaxy. Terraforming is possible but it's a late game tech. Making your planets relatively homogeneous is even more difficult.
Shame SE:V is pretty mediocre without mods. SE:IV is more or less the same, though.
GalCiv2 has a little bit here. Surface differences exist that improve a specific facility placed there, making planets better suited for that need. And there are the hostile-environment worlds. There's neat events that can trigger when you colonize a planet, though these usually affect empire-wide bonuses and might not have a significant impact on the colony.
Though in the end, most of the differences here are superficial.
Post by: lordcooper on November 12, 2011, 05:55:12 am
My biggest issue I seem to have with SOTS, is that the beggining game is rather boring, explore stars, drop colonies, repeat. I haven't actually yet made it to any meaningful interaction with other races...
Play smaller maps and/or have more races in the game.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 12, 2011, 06:01:44 pm
Real edit: also there's a research midway up the tech tree (after asteroid mining) called mega-strip mining. It lets you overharvest LOTS more per turn, you can overharvest whole fleets out in just a few turns in an emergency. It really, really drains those resources though.It also, as the tech name suggests, lets you mine the shit out of worlds you don't intend to colonize. A fleet of ~20 mining cruisers can strip most worlds in 1-2 turns with that tech.
Post by: Antioch on November 13, 2011, 06:59:50 pm
Post by: Orb on November 13, 2011, 08:52:31 pm
Is it possible to bring down disruptor shields?
If I remember correctly, disruptor shields don't block any sort of mass driver attack. So just use mass driver ships to shoot through the shield and destroy the projector, which is one of, if the, weakest ship section in the game.
Post by: Alkhemia on November 13, 2011, 11:46:09 pm
Post by: nenjin on November 13, 2011, 11:55:23 pm
Post by: Antioch on November 14, 2011, 06:51:57 am
Is it possible to bring down disruptor shields?
If I remember correctly, disruptor shields don't block any sort of mass driver attack. So just use mass driver ships to shoot through the shield and destroy the projector, which is one of, if the, weakest ship section in the game.
unfortunately the AI is using them on dreadnoughts, so mass drivers just don't do enough damage. Do shield breaker rounds work, or do they just phase through the shield?
Post by: RulerOfNothing on November 14, 2011, 07:39:13 am
Post by: Metalax on November 14, 2011, 08:10:09 am
Hold on, don't disruptor shields only work on energy weapons?
Disruptors block energy weapons, deflectors block ballistic weapons.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 14, 2011, 08:13:03 am
Post by: lastverb on November 16, 2011, 05:09:43 am
edit: Passed on this. Please do not release feature incomplete alphas as games.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2011, 08:07:39 am
Finally got time to play this one. It just have one big problem for me at start: every window opening/closing takes soooo much time, why the &%#* openning simple design/research/orders/build queue window have to take 5-10 secs? My system can handle even newest shooters at highest details with ~40fps (well i dont play shooters much but tested it), but can't open a few tables in less than second?We've already covered this in the thread. Yes, they released the game unfinished. It was either that or never release it at all. If you dislike it, get a refund or steam credit as iirc they're still offering them. Come back in a month and try it again, I guarantee it will be better.
edit: Passed on this. Please do not release feature incomplete alphas as games.
I mean they've released what, 5 large bugfix patches in 2 weeks?
Post by: shadenight123 on November 16, 2011, 09:26:42 am
Finally got time to play this one. It just have one big problem for me at start: every window opening/closing takes soooo much time, why the &%#* openning simple design/research/orders/build queue window have to take 5-10 secs? My system can handle even newest shooters at highest details with ~40fps (well i dont play shooters much but tested it), but can't open a few tables in less than second?We've already covered this in the thread. Yes, they released the game unfinished. It was either that or never release it at all. If you dislike it, get a refund or steam credit as iirc they're still offering them. Come back in a month and try it again, I guarantee it will be better.
edit: Passed on this. Please do not release feature incomplete alphas as games.
I mean they've released what, 5 large bugfix patches in 2 weeks?
i still CTD after the roar of the starting thing.
>.>
damn it! i wanted to kill hivers!
Post by: justinlee999 on November 16, 2011, 09:41:21 am
Now time to blast away ALIUMS.
Post by: BurnedToast on November 16, 2011, 02:17:24 pm
My system can handle even newest shooters at highest details with ~40fps (well i dont play shooters much but tested it), but can't open a few tables in less than second?
Just want to say this means absolutely nothing - damn near every shooter these days is a console port, which means it's designed to run on xbox hardware that's almost 6 years old, and was not even top of the line then. No surprise anything resembling a modern computer can run it on high. When you get a game made specifically for PC it's probably going to have higher system requirements because it actually takes advantage of some or all of the hardware innovation we've had lately.
Which is not to say I disagree with you though, that they released the game in such a shoddy, broken state is inexcusable. They should have gone the way many indie games are going and basically said hey, buy it now for $30 instead of $40 and you get the beta, then when it's finished you get the full version. Most people would have been fine with that, and while they probably would not have sold as many copies in the short term, but this current fiasco is going to cost them *bad*, both in terms of sales and in terms of company reputation in the long run.
Post by: adwarf on November 16, 2011, 03:39:41 pm
Post by: BurnedToast on November 16, 2011, 03:51:41 pm
Honestly anything more then say 90 stars (which gives you all 6 races with 15 planets each) is just going to drag on far, far too long - especially at the default research settings. You will have everything on the techtree researched and be churning out dozens of doom fleets in a game you've already won, but it will take dozens of hours to finally finish the enemy off. Unless you like that sort of thing, or don't mind quitting once it's clear you've won.
SotS is not really made for huge, epic, long games. The techtree is too shallow and the income from planets compared to cost of ships is geared to smaller, faster paced games. You can ratched back the economy and tech sliders and it helps a bit, but it also unbalances the game horribly (and nerfs the AI's development because he tries to research cruisers too soon before the research time is reasonable)
Post by: Metalax on November 16, 2011, 04:04:36 pm
Post by: Hanzoku on November 16, 2011, 04:32:09 pm
It makes me sad that they were forced to release it in this state. I'll probably pick it up if they manage an expansion, since it should be (mostly) finished by then.
Post by: Flare on November 16, 2011, 04:34:09 pm
Post by: Metalax on November 16, 2011, 05:30:45 pm
Post by: Aklyon on November 16, 2011, 07:34:11 pm
Post by: SP2 on November 16, 2011, 07:40:30 pm
Post by: Aklyon on November 16, 2011, 07:43:21 pm
Post by: SP2 on November 16, 2011, 07:47:16 pm
Post by: adwarf on November 16, 2011, 07:56:38 pm
Post by: Shades on November 17, 2011, 05:17:41 am
That is the nonloading page for me. Its sat there for 20 minutes, still no progress in the loading according to status bar.
The hosting isn't great and sometimes gets very slow. Very useful resource though.
Post by: Demonic Spoon on December 06, 2011, 05:38:32 am
Post by: Aklyon on December 06, 2011, 02:48:05 pm
Does the nanovirus work against the Von Neumann homeworld? :DDoes the Von Neumann attackers have a homeworld?
Post by: Demonic Spoon on December 06, 2011, 03:31:52 pm
Anyway I destroyed it in the conventional way with my flee of dreadnaughts. Fired a few biobombs full of nanovirus at it but the game was close to being finished and I wanted to destroy my first ever vn homeworld before my allies, the liir, defeated the last of the human scum so didn't wait around but finished it off with siege drivers, beamers and railguns. I even caught a VN construct on its way back from destroying one of my allies' worlds and destroyed it as well. Good times.
Is bad that the first time I saw a VN construct that I thought: "I want one"?
Post by: Logical2u on December 06, 2011, 09:05:18 pm
The self replicating disco balls of doom tend to end up as a bigger threat in most of the massive games I've run.
Yeah, I tried a standard game (vs 4 easy AI) and got myself entirely wiped out by the disco balls. Started a game with the same galaxy parameters and wiped the floor with them this time - at least, now that I know what I'm doing... probably also helped that the first time they appeared around turn 120 and this time near turn 260. Also won the game (which was probably helped by having two liirs rather than two hivers)
Really all you need is a swarm of point-defence cruisers plus some weapons with good range and power (I think the sphere is coated in neutron beams, which are apparently range 700?). The PD mops the floor with the little swarms, and then you just need to outlast the sphere itself.
Are people in this thread still playing the multiplayer for this game? Has there been a B12 game before?
Post by: Aklyon on December 06, 2011, 09:38:11 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on December 06, 2011, 11:46:25 pm
Post by: shadenight123 on December 07, 2011, 03:10:14 am
The second game is well on the road to being fixed up. The developers reckon by the 16-17th it'll be almost at a release-worthy stage and of course they're going to continue supporting it (if the first SOTS is anything to go off, for years into the future).
how nice.
i'm still CTD.
for the same mistake of "object not defined".
i'm waiting till patch number 30, or for the first expansion to come out. maybe by then i'll be able to play.
...
grr....
*goes on a rampage*
Post by: Ozyton on December 19, 2011, 11:58:45 pm
Post by: Aklyon on December 20, 2011, 12:07:47 am
Post by: shadenight123 on December 20, 2011, 04:03:25 am
REALLY, A LOT.
Post by: Mipe on December 20, 2011, 04:15:34 am
Steam is raping credit cards right now. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy a 39€ game when they can buy 10-20 games with that amount.
Granted, it is 27€ on Steam right now, but I'd still prefer to wait a month of patches than buy it right now and miss out on great sales.
Post by: shadenight123 on December 20, 2011, 05:26:26 am
Too late.
Steam is raping credit cards right now. Nobody in their right mind is going to buy a 39€ game when they can buy 10-20 games with that amount.
Granted, it is 27€ on Steam right now, but I'd still prefer to wait a month of patches than buy it right now and miss out on great sales.
yeah they are raping my Postepay too.
sheesh.
TOO MUCH TOO LOW ARRRGHHHH CONSUMISM at it's finest moment:
how could i live without steam?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 20, 2011, 06:30:16 am
last patch made things A LOT better.This. So much.
REALLY, A LOT.
I went from consistently crashing after 50 turns to now on turn 300 of a large game with complete stability in one patch. Some of the techs are still useless as the features aren't in yet but I'd say the game is nearly at a release state now.
Post by: Mipe on December 20, 2011, 10:47:47 am
I mean, why even release an unfinished game? It's like Toyota selling cars without seats, windshield and some engine parts, then releasing those components later.
Post by: Aklyon on December 20, 2011, 11:02:22 am
I'll wait for StarDrive (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319847883/stardrive-a-4x-action-strategy-game-for-the-pc) instead. Far too many disappointments on the Kerberos front.Which would you prefer: An unfinished but available game, or no game at all because they ran out of money? As far as I can tell, thats what the problem was I think.
I mean, why even release an unfinished game?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 20, 2011, 11:34:25 am
I'll wait for StarDrive (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1319847883/stardrive-a-4x-action-strategy-game-for-the-pc) instead. Far too many disappointments on the Kerberos front.They released the game unfinished because it was either that or never release it at all. Now the game is nearly release-complete and people buying it now are getting a 95% complete experience for less than the release game cost.
I mean, why even release an unfinished game? It's like Toyota selling cars without seats, windshield and some engine parts, then releasing those components later.
Stardrive does look good. Someday it may be out. It also looks a fair bit simpler.
Post by: nenjin on December 20, 2011, 11:44:43 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 20, 2011, 02:14:59 pm
Post by: Ozyton on December 20, 2011, 06:05:24 pm
Post by: Orangebottle on December 20, 2011, 07:41:38 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 20, 2011, 07:52:29 pm
Post by: Trorbes on December 29, 2011, 11:31:36 pm
I'm enjoying the first game enough (even though I just figured out how to not suck at it so much) that I broke down and bought this; is this going to be worth the $20 even at the current stage? What should someone who's played the first SOTS be expecting from this game?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 30, 2011, 09:31:52 am
What should someone who's played the first SOTS be expecting from this game?Less polish, prettier graphics (way prettier) and more potential once they finish patching out some of the last remaining issues.
Post by: Trorbes on December 30, 2011, 10:51:30 am
The first game was already pretty unpolished, but outside of the "public beta" aspect what can I expect? Also, how's tactical combat handled this time? I remember hearing about larger "maps" but is it much different from the first?What should someone who's played the first SOTS be expecting from this game?Less polish, prettier graphics (way prettier) and more potential once they finish patching out some of the last remaining issues.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 30, 2011, 11:00:40 am
Tactical combat now takes place in a solar system map. Every star now has several planets instead of just one, so where you place your system defense fleets and platforms can matter a great deal. Time is initially compressed while your fleet looks for the enemy fleet because they don't just start right in front of you. If you don't have a sensor platform network in your system it can take a while to find them sometimes, unless you have a deepscan ship with your fleet. Once you're within sensor range of the other fleet time resumes normal speed and combat is very similar to SOTS1. Differences:The first game was already pretty unpolished, but outside of the "public beta" aspect what can I expect? Also, how's tactical combat handled this time? I remember hearing about larger "maps" but is it much different from the first?What should someone who's played the first SOTS be expecting from this game?Less polish, prettier graphics (way prettier) and more potential once they finish patching out some of the last remaining issues.
There are 3 combat planes which you can order ships to.
You can order ships to roll or turn in place. Its entirely viable to have several ships on the 'top' plane flying upside down while some on the 'bottom' are right side up and then you fly past the enemy in a box formation to bring ALL the guns to bear. :P
You can set half speed, normal speed, or high speed for your ships. The speed they're traveling at influences their sensor range.
Armor is handled very differently. You have armor 'hardness' which will negate a certain number of damage points per hit. You then have armor 'depth' which is the strength of the armor. Armor is set in an array of boxes and weapons have different penetration values and shapes. Only once a weapon pierces your armor does it start doing internal damage. Internal damage can cause bad things, like loss of life support or reactor overload. Because of this, a few lucky shots hitting the same spot could in theory kill a ship, while another ship with the same setup who gets the damage spread out among the armor boxes could last much much longer.
Post by: Shadowlord on December 30, 2011, 01:21:26 pm
Post by: Metalax on December 30, 2011, 01:32:16 pm
Post by: Krelian on December 30, 2011, 01:55:07 pm
But to play it I will need to re install my systems, as I currently use Xp.
So, I have a question for those who are playing (or trying) it right now.
How playable is the game right now? I mean, obviously it still has bugs, but, are the game breaking ones still arround? Should I wait some extra time? Or the game is already at an enjoyable level?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 30, 2011, 01:58:53 pm
I just got SotS 2 yesterday, as it was on my plans to buy it anyways some time in the future.The game is fully playable and I haven't run into any game breaking bugs since the last patch. The AI is still a bit passive but they'll be working that out as well as a second balance pass soon.
But to play it I will need to re install my systems, as I currently use Xp.
So, I have a question for those who are playing (or trying) it right now.
How playable is the game right now? I mean, obviously it still has bugs, but, are the game breaking ones still arround? Should I wait some extra time? Or the game is already at an enjoyable level?
Post by: The Scout on December 30, 2011, 06:25:25 pm
Post by: Aklyon on December 30, 2011, 07:03:10 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 30, 2011, 09:35:21 pm
After 10 turns? You barely have anything done in 10 turns.10 turns in the hivers haven't even reached their first planet yet...
Post by: The Scout on December 30, 2011, 09:52:35 pm
Post by: Aklyon on December 30, 2011, 09:56:55 pm
They always start next to me and absolutely rape me at the beginning, which worries me. Later on, Liir and their rogue Ai's everywhere.Start with more dang stars, then. Or less AIs.
Like AI War, starting with barely any stars is only for challenge seeker experts.
Post by: RulerOfNothing on December 30, 2011, 09:59:30 pm
Post by: Aklyon on December 30, 2011, 10:00:25 pm
I believe that The Scout is referring to AI rebellions in this case.I meant less AI players. As in game set-up.
Post by: Nirur Torir on March 10, 2012, 07:38:26 am
How are the patches coming along? Is it worth buying now, or should I wait for the first expansion pack?
Post by: Teneb on March 10, 2012, 09:14:30 am
Post by: lordcooper on March 10, 2012, 09:41:49 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 10, 2012, 10:50:17 am
Post by: Chattox on March 10, 2012, 02:22:21 pm
Post by: Aklyon on March 10, 2012, 02:23:32 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 10, 2012, 03:02:12 pm
Post by: timferius on March 11, 2012, 04:08:12 pm
http://sots2.rorschach.net/Version (http://sots2.rorschach.net/Version)
Post by: Tilla on March 11, 2012, 04:13:07 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 11, 2012, 04:27:21 pm
I can't believe they made such a complete mess of this really. Kerberos have really got a hard sell if they want people to buy future games, after this and Fort Zombie..
I belive they released it that way because it was either that or not having it released at all.
Post by: Journier on March 12, 2012, 08:01:25 am
Post by: Empty on March 12, 2012, 08:06:17 am
dont worry paradox ruins all their games they decide to publish. I have a feeling paradox forced them to release. I have yet to see a non buggy / complete game from them. honestly. every game i get from paradox gets me so excited then I play it and its so unfinished or buggy it makes me cry.
And yet you fall for it every time :P
Seems like paradox have a good busnis plan.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 12, 2012, 09:06:17 am
Post by: Shades on March 12, 2012, 10:12:46 am
Possibly they should try to do their next project via kickstarter or somesuch, might work out better for them not to be held to publisher timelines.
Post by: BigD145 on March 12, 2012, 11:16:08 am
Post by: Chattox on March 15, 2012, 06:57:56 pm
Post by: x2yzh9 on March 15, 2012, 09:07:18 pm
Edit:At the very least on large maps. On small maps it's fine, however on larger maps it's troublesome.
Post by: Shades on March 16, 2012, 04:14:32 am
Post by: The Scout on May 17, 2012, 09:10:31 pm
Post by: Alkhemia on May 17, 2012, 09:53:19 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 17, 2012, 10:10:42 pm
Post by: Alkhemia on May 17, 2012, 10:41:31 pm
Far better than it once was. Still not finished, but I think it's somewhat close to that. Whether or not you'll consider the truly finished version crap is up to you. I like it myself, but I think it's a bit too slow-paced.well compared to the first one I mean but OK still need to wait then at least it looks pretty I guess. :-\
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2012, 05:03:17 am
its better than the first one was at launch, if that helps?Far better than it once was. Still not finished, but I think it's somewhat close to that. Whether or not you'll consider the truly finished version crap is up to you. I like it myself, but I think it's a bit too slow-paced.well compared to the first one I mean but OK still need to wait then at least it looks pretty I guess. :-\
Its not better than the first one with 4 expansion packs and years of patching.
Post by: RedKing on May 18, 2012, 07:38:58 am
Necroing. When I play, I normally get a 30-40 tech advantage to my opponents by the time I meet them. They, however, seem to have 500 ships for one of mine. I get swarmed by masses of upon masses of ships, and I have no way in hell to keep up with their game of attrition.
Ditto. Of course, this is because of the way I tend to play 4X in general (defensive, builder, small military). Once you have a big enough tech gap, you can actually handle this. One high-end dreadnought can wipe out waves of destroyers and cruisers with virtually no damage. but below that tech threshold, it's all about zerg rush. And if you're the Zuul, it's ALWAYS about the zerg rush.
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on May 18, 2012, 07:43:03 am
Its not better than the first one with 4 expansion packs and years of patching.It seems developers have long since forgotten the meaning of the word "sequel".
So I got the first one on steam a while back, been meaning to try and get into it. I'm generally really bad at space 4X for reasons I'm not to sure about. Any tips or tricks to make my attempt easier?
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2012, 07:48:26 am
So any game which is a sequel should include the 5-10 years worth of content development that went into every expansion pack for its previous game? Yeah, okay. Name a sequel which had every feature of its previous incarnation + expansions as well as enough new stuff to call it a sequel.Its not better than the first one with 4 expansion packs and years of patching.It seems developers have long since forgotten the meaning of the word "sequel".
So I got the first one on steam a while back, been meaning to try and get into it. I'm generally really bad at space 4X for reasons I'm not to sure about. Any tips or tricks to make my attempt easier?
Post by: Catastrophic lolcats on May 18, 2012, 07:53:39 am
Pretty much any game before the "new school of design".
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 18, 2012, 07:55:08 am
Post by: lordcooper on May 18, 2012, 07:55:48 am
So any game which is a sequel should include the 5-10 years worth of content development that went into every expansion pack for its previous game? Yeah, okay. Name a sequel which had every feature of its previous incarnation + expansions as well as enough new stuff to call it a sequel.Its not better than the first one with 4 expansion packs and years of patching.It seems developers have long since forgotten the meaning of the word "sequel".
So I got the first one on steam a while back, been meaning to try and get into it. I'm generally really bad at space 4X for reasons I'm not to sure about. Any tips or tricks to make my attempt easier?
Sonic and Knuckles?
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2012, 08:01:55 am
Baldur's Gate II. Age of Empires II. Red Alert II. Empire Earth II. Civ II.red alert 2 had expansions? ???
Pretty much any game before the "new school of design".
And none of these had 4 expansions which introduced entirely new mechanics and concepts to the game.
I mean really, go back and play SOTS without any expansions, then play it again with all of them up to Argos Naval Yards.
No trade, no diplomacy, bugs, hell you couldn't even pursue ships in combat if your kinetic weapons knocked them off the plane. A few driver rounds would spin a destroyer out of range with no way to attack it.
Its not really fair to compare SOTS2 to SOTS1 + years of paid development.
Just my 2c though, I know nobody really pays attention to me when I rant. :D
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on May 18, 2012, 08:28:28 am
With all that in mind, I can probably make use of Blizzard's one good quality and bring forth Starcraft and Diablo. Granted, I never played Starcraft II or Diablo III, but from what I can see they're mostly building on top of what already existed. There's also Homeworld (though Cataclysm doesn't really qualify for an "expansion") and the GTA series. Unlike Elder Scrolls, the GTA series (yes, starting with the first) continuously expanded the scope and detail of the game through each consecutive incarnation and expansion pack.
All in all, it would take a sequel built directly upon the foundation of the original, so that many key code structures remain the same, and the game is basically an engine facelift with an extra expansion's worth of content and gameplay.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2012, 10:29:49 am
All in all, it would take a sequel built directly upon the foundation of the original, so that many key code structures remain the same, and the game is basically an engine facelift with an extra expansion's worth of content and gameplay.Oh... so the entire X3 franchise.
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 18, 2012, 10:35:23 am
All in all, it would take a sequel built directly upon the foundation of the original, so that many key code structures remain the same, and the game is basically an engine facelift with an extra expansion's worth of content and gameplay.Oh... so the entire X3 franchise.
except x3 expansions didn't had extra gameplay :P
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 18, 2012, 10:37:53 am
Oh right. :DAll in all, it would take a sequel built directly upon the foundation of the original, so that many key code structures remain the same, and the game is basically an engine facelift with an extra expansion's worth of content and gameplay.Oh... so the entire X3 franchise.
except x3 expansions didn't had extra gameplay :P
Post by: Frumple on May 18, 2012, 10:38:15 am
They're pretty good, and it's a workable strategy for game development. It's not done nearly as effectively in general, though.
Post by: Sonlirain on May 18, 2012, 10:41:24 am
Actually, the absolute best example I've seen of that comes from spiderweb software, the guy that did Avernum, Geneforge, etc. Fellow basically built an engine and then largely used it (with minor tweaks/upgrades) for several games.
They're pretty good, and it's a workable strategy for game development. It's not done nearly as effectively in general, though.
Wait... Nethergate was also from him?
I remember playing it some years ago... it had a somewhat underused setting.
All in all, it would take a sequel built directly upon the foundation of the original, so that many key code structures remain the same, and the game is basically an engine facelift with an extra expansion's worth of content and gameplay.Oh... so the entire X3 franchise.
except x3 expansions didn't had extra gameplay :P
Well they gave you bigger and bigger starships to grind for and more ways to grind.
Post by: Aklyon on May 18, 2012, 02:01:03 pm
Actually, the absolute best example I've seen of that comes from spiderweb software, the guy that did Avernum, Geneforge, etc. Fellow basically built an engine and then largely used it (with minor tweaks/upgrades) for several games.He's used it for quite a few more games than just 'several', Avernum has 6 or so games? And Geneforge has 5.
They're pretty good, and it's a workable strategy for game development. It's not done nearly as effectively in general, though.
Post by: Anvilfolk on May 28, 2012, 06:48:59 am
Would anyone be so kind as to give us an up-to-date roundup of the situation? Which one should we try, for what reasons, etc? I noticed the 1st one has tutorials, whereas the 2nd one didn't appear to have any.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on May 28, 2012, 07:10:11 am
Post by: inteuniso on May 28, 2012, 10:30:00 am
Post by: Dohon on May 28, 2012, 03:30:33 pm
Post by: Shades on May 29, 2012, 06:06:33 am
Hopefully they will sort that out in time, although some of the things I dislike feel like design choices.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 05:46:41 pm
I can't even enter into the game, the menu screen lags so much I can't even make out what's happening in the background, only some blurry planet or something.
I've already lowered everything in the graphic options, any other idea? maybe I need some magical directx version or something?
Post by: Felius on October 08, 2012, 05:52:55 pm
so, I got this SOTS2 at some sale or something, and got around to test it just now.It does use steam right? If it doesn't, patch to latest version manually. When the game came out it was pretty much in an unplayable alpha. They promised to make it better, and have been patching since so, but from what I remember it still isn't quite right.
I can't even enter into the game, the menu screen lags so much I can't even make out what's happening in the background, only some blurry planet or something.
I've already lowered everything in the graphic options, any other idea? maybe I need some magical directx version or something?
Post by: Djohaal on October 08, 2012, 05:53:50 pm
Also a big pity for such a good franchise. SOTS 1 + expansions was pretty awesome.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2012, 05:54:08 pm
Post by: Aklyon on October 08, 2012, 05:55:11 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 09, 2012, 12:54:53 am
Edit: this has no problems running arma II
Post by: Shades on October 09, 2012, 05:06:32 am
There is still! a couple of crash to desktop issues, and the UI is overly slow, but the core of the game seems quite fun now.
Don't expect turning down graphics to help with the slowness issues, it's clearly a cpu bound not a gpu bound issue. Most likely some terrible code in there somewhere that hopefully they fix soon.
Still patching often which at least speaks well of the team (even if releasing it in it's in now, let alone the state it was last year, speaks poorly)
The AI is also terrible, but I understand it hasn't been their focus with all the other issues.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 10, 2012, 06:32:17 am
Post by: Rex_Nex on October 10, 2012, 07:06:55 am
Post by: Dohon on October 19, 2012, 04:00:24 pm
Announcement can be found here (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35604).
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 19, 2012, 04:09:00 pm
I'll probably give it a try this weekend.
Post by: jocan2003 on October 19, 2012, 04:11:29 pm
Post by: Neonivek on October 20, 2012, 06:01:35 am
Post by: Blah on October 20, 2012, 06:20:21 am
Sword of the Stars 2 just got the 'all clear'. The developpers now feel that the game is in the state that it should have been at release. I know many of you (myself included) got burned because of the early release fiasco a year ago, but I felt that I had to put this up. There still will be patches (some minor niggles remain and the AI just isn't finished), but now you can at least play the damn game.
Announcement can be found here (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=35604).
Time to fire up the game then.
Post by: The Scout on October 20, 2012, 12:07:25 pm
Quick update. He won.
Where's the civie/military challenge? One player is the civilian side, the other is military.
Post by: motorbitch on October 20, 2012, 04:50:58 pm
for the peace keeper, youre not supposed to win against him - he is a uber etnity forcing peace. though its possible to kill him with the right fleet setup and good late game techs, for me he usually shows up mid game. depending on if youre just about to consilitate your earnings or about to start a major genocide, he can either be very helpfull or very annoying.
just do not attack anything, and for that matter do not even try to defend anything. the keeper will kill anything shooting.
Post by: The Scout on October 20, 2012, 04:55:52 pm
Post by: motorbitch on October 21, 2012, 04:34:44 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 05:24:51 pm
at least it runs, but the interface is godawful.
how do you switch between researches? how in hell can you know what's going on? without reading the the manual or the tutorial, I can't really say ::)
Post by: Mini on October 25, 2012, 05:39:12 pm
how do you switch between researches?Go to research screen -> select research you want to research -> click research button.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 25, 2012, 05:53:28 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on October 25, 2012, 05:57:20 pm
There is a manual which explains this, I'm fairly sure.
Post by: Aklyon on October 25, 2012, 06:42:45 pm
Even if the manual ends up being the forum or the wiki.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2012, 01:12:37 am
Theres a reason the acronym RTM exists ;)
Yeah it's because you get engineers do designer work ::)
Post by: motorbitch on October 26, 2012, 01:27:52 am
but realy... i dont think this is sooo hard to grasp. personally, i never needed it.
also, this is the df forum. people complaining about the game is not intuitive enough? realy?
aanyway, these guys have a great forum (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/index.php). if you ask your questions there, youll get help very quickly.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2012, 02:17:36 am
also, this is the df forum. people complaining about the game is not intuitive enough? realy?
well, when you start a df game, you have all the commands neatly laid in front of you:
http://www.drainy.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/embarkedlocation-600x349.png
what the hell am I suposed to do with this?
http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e34/Vox_Imperatoris/Sword%20of%20the%20Stars/ResearchScreen.jpg
the only things you can click are the cubes of the techs, and even that is not evident because they looks nothing like a pushable things :P
maybe I've been influenced to much by 'the design of everyday things'
Post by: motorbitch on October 26, 2012, 03:17:10 am
klick and hold somewhere with your mouse where is not a cube to move the screen. rmb it is iirc, but if this does not work, feel free to try that other button.
klick on a cube to interact with it.
now i know it needs superhuman powas to figure this out. but im sure with my help and if you try real hard, you get there. in time.
good luck, you can do it!
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2012, 03:34:10 am
Post by: motorbitch on October 26, 2012, 03:40:15 am
Post by: Shades on October 26, 2012, 04:43:35 am
I like that everyone, from designers to users, just assume that I have a mouse.
For a windows game this is a reasonable assumption. (that or a trackball, which has a similar effect)
Post by: Mini on October 26, 2012, 04:55:57 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2012, 05:01:26 am
Post by: Djohaal on October 26, 2012, 05:05:55 am
Post by: Anvilfolk on October 26, 2012, 05:06:16 am
Also, I tried getting into this at one point, but didn't have enough time. It seemed like the production aspect of the game was very streamlined/simplified from other 4x space games. Every planet does X production, which you could assign to build the planet infrastructure or something else, and that was it. You couldn't really build specific buildings or specialise planets. Is this right?
Post by: Shadowlord on October 26, 2012, 05:18:10 am
(There is a key to enter the research screen but I didn't notice any obvious keys to rotate it, select anything, or change the selection; of course I didn't hit every key on the keyboard, just the arrow keys and numpad keys - you probably don't have numpad keys anyways, but they didn't do anything in numpad mode.)
Also, yes, Anvilfolk. Instead of spending time building buildings on every planet you build whatever satellites (say, for defense) you may want, and spend your time on ship designing and selecting what to research, issuing ship orders, and combat. Ship construction is very quick as well, in your home planet and others which are similar in size and minerals once they're fully terraformed and industrialized (most colonies won't be as capable, and you have to defend them well).
The random events and encounters also make it far more interesting than most other games. Some of the most important or useful technologies are derived from some obscure locations in the tech tree that you would never think to research if you're only researching things that seem useful, though.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 26, 2012, 05:19:33 am
Post by: Shadowlord on October 26, 2012, 05:21:00 am
Post by: Mini on October 26, 2012, 05:21:44 am
touchpad, one button, but I can make other buttons with gestures, which are unreliable so I can't really know if it's me making the wrong command, the game not registering or whatever.I can indeed see why scrolling may be a problem then. Assuming you have a USB port or bluetooth, I recommend getting a mouse. (There are currently ones as cheap as $4.50 on Amazon, although I can't comment on their quality.) If you don't I'm sure there is a program out there somewhere that lets you bind keyboard keys (you do have one of those, right?) to mouse buttons.
Also, I tried getting into this at one point, but didn't have enough time. It seemed like the production aspect of the game was very streamlined/simplified from other 4x space games. Every planet does X production, which you could assign to build the planet infrastructure or something else, and that was it. You couldn't really build specific buildings or specialise planets. Is this right?Planetary management is a lot simpler than a lot of other 4X games, sure. You did miss on a few points however: There are 4 things production can be used for, infrastructure construction, terraforming, ship building and wealth creation. Infrastructure can only be built up to 100 on each planet (although your homeworld starts with 200), and terraforming can (obviously) only go down to 0 climate hazard. Wealth creation is controlled by the trade<->production slider (which also controls how many trade routes a planet can support), and any left over production is automatically put into this (maybe at a lower rate, I can't remember). There are kind of buildings in space stations, they can only be built around planets, with one per a certain amount of population. They don't really have effects on specialising a planet, since there are IIRC only two that have an effect on the output of the colony, one increasing research directly and one increasing population (and therefore everything). Ship production does also cost money, so you're limited by a factor other than simply how much productions your planets produce in a single turn.
I'd also have to point out that you can click and drag just fine with a touchpad. In fact most modern touchpads have a doubletap click and drag function where you tap twice and then drag as if the button were being held down.You need to use the right mouse button to pan the research screen.
Suddenly ninjas everywhere.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 26, 2012, 05:25:37 am
The point is that he has to do a gesture to do a right mouse click, which is unreliable, and that you have to right click and drag to rotate the research screen. Connecting an actual mouse is the most straightforward solution.Oh I agree with you entirely. He really should get a mouse. As the recommended input device for the two most common operating systems we use, its use would greatly facilitate the use of those operating systems. In fact I'd go so far as to say playing games without a mouse is something I would never do. Fighting with an interface isn't fun.
Indeed, and I had missed that he has only one button. What a poorly designed piece of equipment... what kind of laptop is this?I'd also have to point out that you can click and drag just fine with a touchpad. In fact most modern touchpads have a doubletap click and drag function where you tap twice and then drag as if the button were being held down.You need to use the right mouse button to pan the research screen.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 26, 2012, 05:29:54 am
fun thing is that I never had a problem before. maybe it was clunky at times, but I can do everything xcom offer, star rulers has neatly arranged buttons, towns and gnomoria runs ok. kerbal space program and aurora have everything accessible. even running with rifles is playable with the exception of granades.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 26, 2012, 05:35:21 am
it is a bootcamped mac.Well... you'd be well served by getting a small mouse to plug in. I did a quick search on amazon.com and found a lot of cheap mouses. Some even for... 1 cent? I don't know how they can sell a mouse for 1 cent but there you go.
fun thing is that I never had a problem before. maybe it was clunky at times, but I can do everything xcom offer, star rulers has neatly arranged buttons, towns and gnomoria runs ok. kerbal space program and aurora have everything accessible. even running with rifles is playable with the exception of granades.
http://www.amazon.com/Buttons-Notebook-Computer-Optical-Mouse/dp/B005HGG78Q
Post by: motorbitch on October 26, 2012, 05:48:03 am
You couldn't really build specific buildings or specialise planets. Is this right?you are right, and imo, this feature really is what makes sots. no more micro, no need to build that super computer on every planet....
youre free to focuss on the important decissions and to build and blow up space ships.
hated it at first though. made me put the game back in the shelf back then... there it rested a year, untill i got so bored i gave it a second try. and found myself suddenly love it.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 26, 2012, 05:49:32 am
Post by: Djohaal on October 26, 2012, 09:15:13 am
Yes, that is true. The simplified planet interface coupled with the other everything the game offers is a rare case of good 'streamlining' on 4x games.You couldn't really build specific buildings or specialise planets. Is this right?you are right, and imo, this feature really is what makes sots. no more micro, no need to build that super computer on every planet....
youre free to focuss on the important decissions and to build and blow up space ships.
hated it at first though. made me put the game back in the shelf back then... there it rested a year, untill i got so bored i gave it a second try. and found myself suddenly love it.
Post by: Niveras on October 26, 2012, 05:34:38 pm
May as well complain that you can't boot a PC without ram or a keyboard.
Post by: Aklyon on October 26, 2012, 05:38:35 pm
Post by: Sergius on October 26, 2012, 06:34:22 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2012, 07:12:40 am
Thread (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=35592)
File (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/download/file.php?id=8853&sid=efbb9d6e0312e2a9a38a962bdc266545)
Post by: Lightning4 on November 16, 2012, 01:36:31 pm
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1173-Sword-of-the-Stars-II-Expanded-into-New-Enhanced-Edition
Brings a new race into the fold called the Loa, and adds what sounds like a good chunk of new content. They also tossed in all the Immersion DLC.
What's more, everybody who currently owns SotsII will be upgraded for free.
Post by: Aklyon on November 16, 2012, 01:38:39 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2012, 01:40:46 pm
The Loa ships look fantastic. Any info on how their drive system works?
Post by: azurelao on November 16, 2012, 01:52:06 pm
In addition, how resource-heavy is it? I downloaded it to try it out and loaded up the main menu screen (with the battle playing in the background) and it was lagging pretty heavily. Normally, my computer can handle games fairly well, but it was lagging hard with just the main menu.
Post by: Aklyon on November 16, 2012, 01:54:47 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2012, 02:44:30 pm
How stable is the game now? Is all of the content working?I played for several hours with no bugs or issues recently, so it is fairly stable. I also did several hours in a multiplayer game, also without issues.
In addition, how resource-heavy is it? I downloaded it to try it out and loaded up the main menu screen (with the battle playing in the background) and it was lagging pretty heavily. Normally, my computer can handle games fairly well, but it was lagging hard with just the main menu.
All of the content I saw was working and complete.
I couldn't tell you if it will work on your computer though. Do you meet the minimum requirements?
Post by: azurelao on November 16, 2012, 03:31:36 pm
How stable is the game now? Is all of the content working?I played for several hours with no bugs or issues recently, so it is fairly stable. I also did several hours in a multiplayer game, also without issues.
In addition, how resource-heavy is it? I downloaded it to try it out and loaded up the main menu screen (with the battle playing in the background) and it was lagging pretty heavily. Normally, my computer can handle games fairly well, but it was lagging hard with just the main menu.
All of the content I saw was working and complete.
I couldn't tell you if it will work on your computer though. Do you meet the minimum requirements?
More than meet them.
If the problem is not the program, then the only thing I can think of is that it's using the wrong graphics card for SotS II
Post by: lastverb on November 16, 2012, 03:51:22 pm
Post by: The Scout on November 16, 2012, 04:12:31 pm
Just as soon as the "all clear" was given to SotSII, a new expansion has been announced, called "The End of Flesh". And is releasing November 30th.Watch them be the Peacekeeper. I swear to hunt them down and murder them even if it's hard and tedious.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/content.php?1173-Sword-of-the-Stars-II-Expanded-into-New-Enhanced-Edition
Brings a new race into the fold called the Loa, and adds what sounds like a good chunk of new content. They also tossed in all the Immersion DLC.
What's more, everybody who currently owns SotsII will be upgraded for free.
Post by: Tres_Huevos on November 16, 2012, 06:38:13 pm
How stable is the game now? Is all of the content working?The main menu combat seems to be disabled by default, these days, at least for me, so I'm guessing this was a while ago you tried. Back when I tried it shortly after release my computer couldn't run it well enough to even bother with it, but these days it runs it just fine, despite barely meeting the minimum requirements, if it does at all. So it's been decently optimized over the past year.
In addition, how resource-heavy is it? I downloaded it to try it out and loaded up the main menu screen (with the battle playing in the background) and it was lagging pretty heavily. Normally, my computer can handle games fairly well, but it was lagging hard with just the main menu.
So, yeah, if you more than meet the requirements, it's probably something else, or bad compatibility with your hardware.
Post by: Alkhemia on December 01, 2012, 05:05:34 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 01, 2012, 01:49:29 pm
So has anyone played End of Flesh yet if so what your opinion on the Loa?I'd totally forgotten about it. I'll try it out now
Post by: Tres_Huevos on December 01, 2012, 01:59:07 pm
You'll be using smaller fleets, usually, due to their method of FTL, but their ships are sturdy and have the most guns of any race, along with the advantage of being able to be reformed into any other ship(s), anywhere, at anytime, so long as there is enough ship material present in the fleet.
Their colonization mechanics are a bit different, too. They ignore climate hazard, but biosphere operates similarly for them, so they spend time clearing that out. Their population growth rate is also linked to solar activity (lower is better), and directly related to their tax rate. Also, they get AI tech right really early, but no research advantage from it.
They probably play the most uniquely of the races, and they're certainly interesting.
EDIT: If anyone is thinking of firing it up to try out the new expansion/update, I'd suggest playing on a decently large map that's not full of AIs. I've found that the AI tends to over-emphasize their war efforts if they get into an early war, and ignore their expansion, crippling their growth. A little growing room to get their empire up and running seems to help them out.
Post by: Aklyon on December 01, 2012, 10:10:48 pm
Post by: Alkhemia on December 01, 2012, 10:24:16 pm
Post by: The Scout on December 01, 2012, 10:24:58 pm
the like the humans crossed with the hivers they FTL is like a mass acceleratorA gate that doesn't require an end?
Post by: Alkhemia on December 01, 2012, 10:25:27 pm
yesthe like the humans crossed with the hivers they FTL is like a mass acceleratorA gate that doesn't require an end?
you can see it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAvG2FhZeuY&feature=g-all
Post by: Tres_Huevos on December 01, 2012, 10:30:21 pm
The official lore on the race: http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36433
If anyone is interested in that sort of thing.
Post by: Alkhemia on December 01, 2012, 10:34:45 pm
Post by: BigD145 on December 01, 2012, 11:02:32 pm
you can see it here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAvG2FhZeuY&feature=g-all
You can see someone failing at SciFi.
Post by: Alkhemia on December 01, 2012, 11:05:45 pm
Post by: lastverb on December 02, 2012, 05:47:12 am
- Last patch made costs of their fleets enormous. There is a little bug that ships worth x cubes is much cheaper than x cubes, but it still costs a lot.
- Early game expansion is slowest of them all, mainly due to those enormous costs - you have to pay for gates between systems and inside them.
- Ftl drive is too slow, you need gates (hiver speed without gates) and even with those gates they are not that much faster than humanz (while hivers teleport). Next bug is not helping.
------- Enormous bug with pathfinding. Your ships IGNORE gate network and just go straight in line (remember hivers not using their gates closer to target?).
+ Your fleet are everything. Build them once and transform! Need missile ships, you got a fleet of them next turn. Don't have a colo'a'nizer? Now you got.
+ I like their different from all colonizing method.
They still need a few patches to be playable.
edit: Oh and those gates you build everywhere in deep space - they are indestructable for others.
Post by: motorbitch on December 02, 2012, 07:38:57 am
the accelerator gates will accelerate the cubes to max speed when they pass through, after this, the cube will start to slow down slowly down to 0.75. this is why loa will build gates within a distance of 5 lj between systems. however, after 5 lj the speed of the cube will *not* yet have dropped to 0.75.
so, if you have a gate at one system, it is well possible that the fastest route to another system indeed is the direct route, even if there is no additional gate enroute and the cube will slow down significantly during the travle.
if its faster to use an alternative route with more gates, the cube will take this way.
as for the costs of the ships, remember that loa never have to scrap any ship... all your ships will always be up to date, and you can use them for any task without the need to build support ships.
its true the loas *income* expands very slowly at game start. mostly because the population grow is realy slow, and linked to the tax rate (more taxes, less grow).
this will leave trade as the best option to increase income during the early game - but loa frighters cost roughly 3 times as much as frighters of other races. loa players indeed have to be very careful what they spend money on.
on the other hand, loa will never pay upkeep for colonies with bad living conditions - they just can colonize every planet they find without bothering about develpement costs. if this is exploited right, a loa player will see a massive income increase once the new colonies start to generate income.
i think loa are extremely fun, and proalby will become my favorite race to play. however, right now there is an annoying bug with will will always spawn loa ships at the default position, regardless where the fleet is placed within the battle manager. this makes defense against random encounters or invaders extremely difficult. i suggest to wait for another patch before realy plaing this race.
Post by: Niveras on December 02, 2012, 12:08:23 pm
The official lore on the race: http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=36433
If anyone is interested in that sort of thing.
That's pretty great. Writing a 'synoposis' of a race like that is easier than a full story or novel, but still very unique. The race has enough parallels to how we live (or how we expect carbon-based life to exist) to be relatable, and yet is sufficiently different to be truly alien. I didn't notice any glaring issues in terms of logic holes, where the way they do something is too obviously some human thinking about how a non-corporeal being would do it, but I could have easily missed any such holes. I especially like the whole "terraforming is eradication" angle, making empty, barren rocks the most hospitable sort of planet for a synthetic race.
I'd love to see a Mote-like book, using that template as a basis for the alien race. Probably start with the initial rebellion.
Post by: BurnedToast on December 02, 2012, 06:57:47 pm
Random assortment of 1's and 0's? Perfectly capable of being copied. Assortment of 1's and 0's that just happen to make up a sapient intelligence? can't be copied because
I get it, they probably didn't want your standard "boring" AI race with one monolithic personality that just copies it's self but come on, that's just silly.
Post by: Jopax on December 02, 2012, 07:02:31 pm
I mean, an artificial inteligence isn't exactly easy to make using binary, as we've learned so far. So I think it's closer to being an organism in an artificial body which then molds the body to their personality making it rather hard or in this case impossible to copy.
Hopefuly they patch most of the big bugs by the time Christmas comes around ^^
Post by: majikero on December 02, 2012, 07:02:44 pm
Post by: Shooer on December 02, 2012, 08:34:15 pm
Post by: Niveras on December 02, 2012, 08:59:35 pm
But given humanity hasn't quite answered (or necessarily agreed to, as a race) the question of consciousness or souls, and as this is only a spot piece made as a backdrop to a minor game, I'm okay with glossing over the details.
Post by: BurnedToast on December 02, 2012, 10:17:27 pm
I'm okay with handwaving consciousness as a non-corporeal (and sapient algorithms are corporeal; electrical energy executing code is still a part of physical reality) construct to get around the issues of replication. I agree that it is a pretty weak argument; ideally, an actual work of hard science fiction based on this race might touch on the ethics of a race of beings that can replicate themselves flawlessly: maybe all the duplicate entities really are still considered "one" entity (kind of an ultimate form of multitasking) and it is only the race's internal ethics and resource consumption (e.g. energy requirements) that prevent any given individual from ballooning themselves out of control. Maybe that ballooning has happened and they had to deal with the ramifications and an internal rebellion around it, where finally the survivors all intrinsically agree never to do so (just as we might agree not to kill other people - at least, not generally on a whim).
But given humanity hasn't quite answered (or necessarily agreed to, as a race) the question of consciousness or souls, and as this is only a spot piece made as a backdrop to a minor game, I'm okay with glossing over the details.
Yeah, I know it's glossed over because it's a game, not a physics or philosophy paper, but tossing "quantum physics" out how they did is really annoying to me, and also strikes me as lazy. It feels to me no different then if they'd just said " oh they can't copy themselves because wizards did it".
Especially since what you described as a more hard scifi version seems like it would be a lot more interesting then what they did end up with.
Post by: Majestic7 on December 03, 2012, 03:57:02 am
The lore doesn't manifest in the game in any kind of way anyway. Like the ghost ship is just a random encounter, you never learn the background story. There should be special research projects into menaces and stuff revealing their stories like autopsies in X-com... What good is background story if it doesn't manifest in the game, ever?
Post by: lastverb on December 03, 2012, 05:21:10 am
edit: oh i misread that
Post by: motorbitch on December 03, 2012, 08:54:16 am
the story of the ghost ship indeed is quite interesting. its strongly related to the liir race, and what may become to a liir if that liir becomes very very old and *big*.
Post by: Jopax on December 03, 2012, 09:08:42 am
Also their universe is not like ours in terms of physical laws, for one it seems their's isn't relativistic, or something, but basically there is one static reference point at the center of the universe or something.
Post by: Rakonas on December 03, 2012, 06:07:48 pm
Post by: Aklyon on December 03, 2012, 06:15:41 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 03, 2012, 06:26:38 pm
Not having played SotSII due to lack of worknigness on my computer, but have you tried building more ships to get more cubes?You can also build the cubes themselves and skip the ship-building.
Post by: Jopax on December 03, 2012, 06:32:47 pm
Post by: motorbitch on December 03, 2012, 06:44:25 pm
the expotential increase of cube costs for loa armor options is not intended and will undergo balancing with the next patch(es).
for now, just stay away from armor options if you play loa, as just picking polisilicate already will tripple the cubes of a ship.
though this is bad, its not quite as bad as it seems: loa have low armor and high structure, and are immune to critical hits. so armor options are much less usefull with loa ships anyway. on the other hand, the bullwark module (witch increases the structure of a section) will add much more structure points then the bullwarks of other races.
Post by: Shades on December 04, 2012, 04:46:33 am
as just picking polisilicate already will tripple the cubes of a ship.
Polysilicate is the one you start with isn't it? If so it certainly doesn't triple the number of cubes on a ship, although the increase is more than I'd like it seemed to be around 10-20%. If armour is weak on loa would it be worth redesigning the initial ships to strip them down you think?
I already shift all their weapons to energy at the start because I find the whole 'needs 1 supply' amusing.
Post by: motorbitch on December 04, 2012, 07:16:59 am
Post by: Shadowgandor on December 04, 2012, 09:34:33 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 22, 2013, 03:54:01 pm
Anyway, how does one use drone sats for defense. I've build them, but they're not present whenever a system is attacked.
SOTS 2 btw
Post by: ragnar119 on March 22, 2013, 04:35:34 pm
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 22, 2013, 04:38:01 pm
But it's fairly fun, and I experienced no bugs* so far.
*Safe for the meteroid eating sort. Eat plasma missiles, scum.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 22, 2013, 07:37:09 pm
Necroing this to ask a question.You have to place them in the system defense screen.
Anyway, how does one use drone sats for defense. I've build them, but they're not present whenever a system is attacked.
SOTS 2 btw
Post by: Duuvian on March 22, 2013, 09:26:13 pm
According to users in game chat, Sots2 still has some minor non-crash bugs and ai needs some work. From my experience in it, it is a good game already and I enjoy it, and has a lot of potential to become even better. It's patched quite often, though I would not be a good judge as I only update steam games occasionally. Steam doesn't always show the patch notes which should be up on their forums or so I hear from a dev in game chat, and it's obvious good work is being put into it; though remember it's a small studio so they could probably use help identifying the bugs that remain.
A bug tracker system would probably help if they were to add that, either into the game itself or through a third party if necessary.
Anyone up for a multi player game once steam supports it or whatever the problem is that makes it a pain currently is fixed? Maybe by that time I'll feel like I know enough about the game to play in a small map with other people.
Post by: Aklyon on March 22, 2013, 09:43:50 pm
Well I can, but the graphics are nearly as big of a mess as the FPS is, DX10 is not nice to integrated graphics :(
Post by: Duuvian on March 22, 2013, 09:45:40 pm
EDIT: Oh, yeah integrated graphics, missed that, my apologies.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 23, 2013, 03:57:37 am
And how would I go about doing that. The system defense screen is the one with the 1-9 roster thingy, right?Necroing this to ask a question.You have to place them in the system defense screen.
Anyway, how does one use drone sats for defense. I've build them, but they're not present whenever a system is attacked.
SOTS 2 btw
Post by: Biowraith on March 23, 2013, 04:39:46 am
And how would I go about doing that. The system defense screen is the one with the 1-9 roster thingy, right?Necroing this to ask a question.You have to place them in the system defense screen.
Anyway, how does one use drone sats for defense. I've build them, but they're not present whenever a system is attacked.
SOTS 2 btw
You want the Battle Manager screen. You can right click a system in the main map and select Battle Manager there, or it's an option whenever an actual battle occurs - in the screen where you're deciding which fleet will fight, whether to automate or take control, the battle manager button is in the middle-bottom half of the screen.
Once in the Battle Manager, any defense assets you have will be in the bar along the bottom. You drag them from there to wherever you want them to be in the system. The system will be split into sections, with a limit to how many can be placed in any given section, and there's also a limit to how many you can have on the map overall, based on how many Naval Station Command modules you have at that system.
You can also position your actual fleet(s) in that screen to determine where they'll start. If you're accessing that screen immediately prior to an actual battle (i.e. after clicking end turn) it'll also show where the enemy fleet is approaching from so you can place accordingly.
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 23, 2013, 04:51:23 am
Probably caused by the fact that I didn't have a naval station constructed in that system. I'll try it in my homesystem later.
Well, different question. Is there a reason I sometimes can't build stations in some star systems, despite there being place, and me not having build a station of that type there yet.
Post by: lastverb on March 23, 2013, 04:55:35 am
Post by: 10ebbor10 on March 23, 2013, 04:58:56 am
Post by: Biowraith on March 23, 2013, 04:59:48 am
Edit: and re: the battle manager, you don't actually need a naval station to access that screen or place assets, but without one you'll not be able to place very much (a drone satellite requires 1 command point to place, a system without a naval station gets 3 command points).
Post by: QuakeIV on March 06, 2020, 03:54:18 pm
https://www.change.org/p/kerberos-productions-inc-petition-for-kerberos-productions-inc-to-create-sword-of-the-stars-hd-redux?utm_content=cl_sharecopy_19439920_en-US%3Av8&recruiter=1043982157&recruited_by_id=bd5e2e40-5395-11ea-a94b-7dd33e4f5d9c&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=share_petition
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 06, 2020, 06:21:50 pm
Post by: BigD145 on March 06, 2020, 06:52:46 pm
Post by: Shooer on March 06, 2020, 07:24:43 pm
Kickstart it or don't.Or just make the thing you want to make.
Also SotS had a 3D strategic map and a 3D strategic map. Big thing though is that you had no direct control over the the third degree of movement. Ships could be bumped up or down but you had no say in which way they went. The ship designs were also set up to fire broad side or directly forward. Some designs featured a bit of a bias to upwards, only because heavy/planet missiles came from above so point defenses focused upwards.
Everyone's got Flat Brain Syndrome in the SotS universe. No 3D thinking, no planning traps using all degrees of movement. No control on true angles of fire. Hunting the white whale on the seas while I'm out here flying the god damn Enterprise.
Pretty good game otherwise. Fairly unique races, randomized availability on techs, 3D star map.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 07, 2020, 02:33:58 am
Or maybe they just couldn't make a good full 3D space AI.
Either way the setup is more approachable that way, and while I'd like 3D space tactics to be usable, I understand why they'd want to make it flat. The jump from 3D turn-based strategy to realtime 3D tactics is far more jarring than the same in 2D, and many players would have been driven off by it.
As for a remake... honestly, I would be all for it if it didn't mean that I couldn't play it. SotSII was already on the outer edge of what my little tablet PC can run. I'll take a fan-reconstruction with improved visuals on the same engine, over a true remake on a new one.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2020, 07:44:34 am
I was assuming they don't have the resources to do so. SOTS2 failed from what I understand largely due to lack of fundingKickstart it or don't.Or just make the thing you want to make.
Post by: Jopax on March 07, 2020, 12:54:57 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2020, 01:54:58 pm
There was also the whole 'shipping an utterly broken dumpster fire of a product' thing it had going against it. Was fairly surprised that Kerberos continued to exist after that.I mean, they shipped it in that state precisely because they'd run out of funds. They were quite open about it not being completed and were hoping sales from the fan base would suffice to fund the game's completion. It's happened before.
Post by: Jopax on March 07, 2020, 02:29:22 pm
Other than that, looking at what they released over their lifetime as a company makes the original SotS seem more like a fluke than any real measure of their competence since everything else they released wasn't terribly good.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 07, 2020, 04:26:32 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 09, 2020, 12:36:28 am
Sure in the the actual 4x aspects of the game just about everything and it's cat has it beat, but the combat was where the game shined the brightest. You could control the combat in a way that made it so that it wasn't just a matter of who had the biggest numbers, but it was also about who could control their ships with the most precision, who knew how and when to make your ships barrel roll when attacking another ship so that all guns could be brought to bear on a target, who could manage firing lines the best and build your ships in the best way to take advantage of your combat playstyle.
My only sadness about my time with that game was that I had a clunker of a rig that could barely play it without huge graphical errors and FPS in single digits.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 09, 2020, 02:24:45 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on March 10, 2020, 02:09:30 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on March 10, 2020, 02:48:43 pm
Post by: Akura on March 10, 2020, 08:06:17 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 11, 2020, 05:10:43 am
...Y'all made me start a new game of this. About 60 turns in, and I've already researched AI. Not sure if that was a good idea or not, since I've never had an AI rebellion and I don't know if it's supposed to kick off immediately or if it happens somewhere down the line.The AI rebellion can happen at any point between the time you have researched AI to the time you finish AI slave tech, if I remember right. The chances rise the more AI controlled ships you have. If you aren't lucky enough to have gotten the AI slave tech and you do get a rebellion I think you never get to use AI systems again, assuming you survive the rebellion.
Post by: Akura on March 11, 2020, 05:41:12 am
I did run into the Hivers, though. They showed up at a border colony(actually a planet that was pre-inhabited that joined immediately) and killed everyone. Given the Human/Hiver backstory, I'm gonna go kill me some bugs. My first counter-attack, 5 cruisers against their force of several destroyers and the gate, went horribly. First, only two cruisers jumped in because I don't have cruiser CnC yet, and for some reason they were toggled to hold fire. Once I sorted that out, they failed to destroy the gate or deal any damage to anything.
Gonna build some Blazer hulls with Battle Bridges. If missiles and bullets didn't work, let's see what walls of big piss-off lasers will do.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 11, 2020, 05:47:59 am
Post by: Akura on March 12, 2020, 06:34:12 pm
The one Hiver empire I've been fighting is bipolar, offering ceasefire one turn and declaring war again the next. Since she isn't actually attacking and is probably getting beaten back on other fronts, I'm backing off. There's another Hiver queen who merely signed a ceasefire with me and I haven't heard from her since. I would think she was wiped out, but the rankings put me in last place and her in second-to-last, so if I'm doing worse than someone who is already dead then that's an impressive display of failure on my part. The other neighbors are three human empires all friendly with me and each other. And lastly, what has shifted my fleets from the Hiver front: the Zuul. Specifically, the Catholic Zuul, which I thought didn't appear until the sequel. Actually, their leader pic has the cross upside-down on his pope hat, so it's the Antichrist Zuul.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 13, 2020, 05:34:37 am
Actually, their leader pic has the cross upside-down on his pope hat, so it's the Antichrist Zuul.The inverted cross isn't a satanic symbol, it's the cross of Saint Peter. Supposed to represent Peter the Apostle iirc
Post by: Orb on March 13, 2020, 10:39:59 am
But if you do have a rebellion the AI ships will flip, naturally.
The chance is checked whenever you are researching AI technologies (faster research = higher chance, so it doesn't matter if you do it slow or fast).
Boosting significantly increases your chances.
I think it *might* be race dependent too, but I'm not sure (for example zuul are more likely to have a rebellion).
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 13, 2020, 11:06:35 am
I don't think the chance for AI rebellion goes up if you have AI ships, at least I've never read that anywhere.Ah ok. I had thought having more AI systems also increased it. I know the chance is higher while actively researching any AI tech, especially AI Slave tech but once you finish slave tech the rebellion cannot trigger.
But if you do have a rebellion the AI ships will flip, naturally.
The chance is checked whenever you are researching AI technologies (faster research = higher chance, so it doesn't matter if you do it slow or fast).
Boosting significantly increases your chances.
I think it *might* be race dependent too, but I'm not sure (for example zuul are more likely to have a rebellion).
IIRC even if you safely research AI techs without a rebellion, if you don't get or don't research slave tech a rebellion can kick off if another race's AI rebels.
Post by: Heretic on May 05, 2021, 11:30:46 am
- Mod command points of all command sections to 1000 for test purpose, it works, but starts loading super slow.
- Make my own galaxy generator and use it to generate giant galaxies.
- Use 4gb patch from here https://ntcore.com/?page_id=371 ... and wow, all became working superfast. Notice, my computer is kinda monster, so i don't sure it will work fine on any system, but still i think it is big way to reborn this game.
What i want to do:
- Get help from experienced modders. If you have any ideas on this, please contact me! Especially about how to work with .X files. I can model tons of staff, or ask friend of mine to help with it, but i don't really sure about how convertion and settings of turrets points+animations works in SotS.
- Found out how to change camera behavior, especially significantly increase draw distance.
- Found out ways to mod the AI. I know we can make it's priorities better, but how much can we go?4)Analize all big mods to understand how far i can go about shaders remake and staff.5)Found players to play and test it all in multiplayer.
(https://preview.redd.it/ty8mgg9snbx61.jpg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4cffa2f2e9d141366359c6c9ee32d4ee654d5d45)
(https://preview.redd.it/3ydz499snbx61.jpg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bfd01fdefa01461c4e66cec018cefaba061c2270)
(https://preview.redd.it/zi2qqi9snbx61.jpg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ebff8b68bd6c63ccb54d0e5c0e8cbd2291a0f9c3)
(https://preview.redd.it/ralg3e9snbx61.jpg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=882cc05af668646e53a8a8997bca9b596386964d)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 05, 2021, 11:43:52 am
Post by: Heretic on May 05, 2021, 12:04:44 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 05, 2021, 01:57:56 pm
You better give it a try. One of the best 4X ever. In a lot of cases much better then Stellaris. Especially then it comes to tech tree and combats.
I will, I swear, please don't hurt me! :P
Post by: AlStar on May 05, 2021, 02:37:39 pm
The random tech tree is !!fun!!, in a "I wonder if I'll get any anti-missile and/or armor technologies this game?"-kinda way. Definitely encourages you to work with what you've got, but can be annoying when your race decides that papier-mâché worked well enough for their ancestor's armor, and it'll be good enough for their starships, too!
Post by: Duuvian on May 05, 2021, 11:05:11 pm
I think I read somewhere that SotS 1 may be re-released someday but I'm not sure if that was confirmed by Kerboros (I think they made both 1 and 2) possible, or mere speculation by fans of the series.
I usually played Sol Force or whatnot; later on they became excellent at reinforcing systems under attack if you an intercept fleet within range on their lanes, but the other drive systems were pretty good too (except maybe Hiver, those expanded quite slowly)
Post by: Shades on May 05, 2023, 04:09:23 am
You better give it a try. One of the best 4X ever. In a lot of cases much better then Stellaris. Especially then it comes to tech tree and combats.
It's a great game but I could never bring myself to play it since I got sots2 because my brain tells me the new one should be better so I should play that instead and I don't like that one nearly as much.
Post by: Duuvian on May 05, 2023, 04:25:23 am
Post by: Orb on May 11, 2023, 06:42:58 pm
Multiplayer is fun too, though gamespy died a long, long time ago.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 11, 2023, 11:07:03 pm