Post by: Toaster on May 15, 2021, 01:52:31 pm
Standard Rules:
1. All votes must be in red. Unvoting before voting again is not required, but appreciated. You may vote for No Lynch. In case of a tie, no one will be lynched. Do not vote inside of spoiler tags- such votes will not be counted.
2. Days are 72 hours while Nights are 24 hours. Neither time span includes weekends, though I may end weekend-spanning nights after 24 hours if all night actions are in. Unless otherwise stated, days and nights end at 10 PM EST.
3. Never edit your posts for any reason, including typos.
4. Do not PM other players. Players with private chat access will be given a topic on QuickTopic where they may post freely.
5. Never quote any PM from the mod. You may give a general summary (for example, a roleclaim), but do not quote directly.
6. Please put my name in bold if you would like to get my attention.
7. You may ask for an shorten by posting Shorten in bold. Shortens require at least 60% of players to agree, and will end the day as soon as I can process the day end. There are currently no extensions available.
8. Dead players may post one “bah post” to comment on their death, but it may not contain any relevant game information. After that, dead men tell no tales, so please do not post.
9. Please make an effort to post at least once daily. If you do not post for 36 hours, you will be prodded. If I don’t hear from you within 24 more hours, you will be replaced. If you think someone needs a prod, please bring it to my attention- I can’t guarantee I will notice everyone who is not posting.
10. Never underestimate your importance, and always play to win!
Game specific rules:
1. When the game goes into setup, I will lock the thread and send out your alignment. Please reply to that with your selection of class from the list below. If you do not reply in 24 hours, it will default to random.
2. At game start, you will receive a random common item, unless your class dictates otherwise.
3. There is a pool of public items. This pool starts out containing six random items, at least two of which are guaranteed to be uncommon or better. When a player dies, their items will go into this pool. At day start, a random common item will be removed from the pool. The contents of this pool are not known, but I will post a count of the items at day start.
4. During the day, you will automatically quest for an item, and you will receive it at the end of the day after the lynch. You may PM me during the day and opt to grab an item from the public item pool instead. Certain classes have other choices they can make instead. Note that if the pool is empty when your turn comes to check it, you get nothing!
5. The odds for receiving an item are as follows: 65% common, 25% uncommon, 9% rare, 1% artifact. Rarer items tend to have a greater effect.
6. You may discard one item each night if you wish. This effect happens at the end of the night and does not count as your night action. The item goes into the public pool.
7. Currently, there is no sharing or trading of items, even among mafia teams.
Class list:
Spoiler: Classes (click to show/hide)
Game related information and item list (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvFsNFGsoA1KdGZsTVZfY3VmX0w3OVhoRk5PaEl5NVE&hl=en&authkey=CI-PoZUM). Spoiler alert- not needed to play game. I will tell you what your items do- there is no identification.
Roguelike Mafia Discussion Thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=80808.0)
Roguelike Mafia 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78265.0)
Roguelike Mafia 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=88433.0)
Roguelike Mafia 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91413.0)
Roguelike Mafia 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106934.0)
Roguelike Mafia 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=113334.0)
Roguelike Mafia 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=124225.0)
Players:
1. EuchreJack
2. notquitethere
3. TricMagic
4. prefuzek
5. BluarianKnight
6. webadict
7. FallacyofUrist
8. Jim Groovester
9. ToonyMan
Replacement Queue:
1. Vector
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2021, 02:05:14 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 15, 2021, 02:34:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 15, 2021, 03:16:03 pm
Past me:
Yeah I'm fucking swamped with school too. Finals are next week why did I sub this game
Using a cell phone during exams to cheat? More like using a cell phone during exams to make mafia posts.
Post by: TricMagic on May 15, 2021, 03:48:55 pm
Post by: prefuzek on May 15, 2021, 05:12:59 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 15, 2021, 06:00:25 pm
IN.
Post by: webadict on May 15, 2021, 06:39:01 pm
Post by: Vector on May 15, 2021, 08:58:12 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 15, 2021, 09:52:56 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 16, 2021, 07:30:12 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 17, 2021, 01:02:49 am
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 19, 2021, 12:18:55 am
Post by: Toaster on May 24, 2021, 02:26:46 pm
Post by: webadict on May 24, 2021, 07:24:36 pm
If someone else joins, they can choose a handicap for me.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 24, 2021, 09:32:12 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 26, 2021, 03:34:13 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 26, 2021, 07:31:54 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 26, 2021, 07:40:45 pm
Also, everyone should chose Paladin and lie about choosing Paladin. Except maybe Web if they want a handicap. :P
Post by: Toaster on May 26, 2021, 07:57:22 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 27, 2021, 11:40:42 am
The nine of you were staying at Eastern Monastary when the necromancer sent his ghastly army to attack. After a bloody struggle at the gates, the monks and the few templars managed to shut and bar the gates. It's a wonder that more weren't lost in the fight. As it stands, there are only three fully able templars to watch the walls, with the rest of the staff busy trying to either fortify the gate or save the injured. Once it's clear the immediate threat is over, the bishop calls you to the chapel.
"There is a rite that can be performed. One that will banish this army back to the underworld... but the ritual focus is in the crypts. They go on for miles, and the way is lost. If you all agree to go, you can use what you find down there, for the way is dangerous. Who knows what all lurks down there; the crypts were built into tunnels that have existed for times beyond record."
Everyone agrees to help. Nodding, the bishop lights a sacrament candle. "I will seek guidance in a prayer." He lights the candle, speaks the words of ritual, and closes his eyes. When they reopen, they are blank and unfocused. He drones out words in a monotone, giving vague directions to where the focus can be found. Everyone nods, trying to memorize the path. He closes his eyes again and is silent... but then he bolts to his feet, booming out in a voice not his own.
"At least one of you is an agent of the Necromancer."
He shakes and shudders out of his trance, as everyone stares at each other. Nevertheless, there's no time; you must go into the Crypts of the Eastern Monastary.
Day 1 has begun!
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 10 PM EST.
There are six items in the public pool.
MOD NOTE: I am moving my phase change time back one hour from 11 PM to 10 PM Eastern US.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 12:08:11 pm
What do you expect from Day 3?
@prefuzek:
Have we played before? What do you plan on doing?
(also your avatar is going to confuse me greatly since it's similar to someone else's on MU)
@Jim Groovester:
Two scum?
Post by: webadict on May 27, 2021, 02:21:17 pm
Also, what would you say if I told you I picked Paladin?
Post by: TricMagic on May 27, 2021, 02:31:06 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 02:37:38 pm
How's it feel to be back, Toony?I feel like The Flash. Everybody is moving in slow motion around me here.
Also, what would you say if I told you I picked Paladin?Me too.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 27, 2021, 02:58:22 pm
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
TricMagic, will you be easy to read this game? How will people read you this game?
notquitethere, what's your opinion about Roguelike Mafias? I feel like if I paid less attention there'd be enough similarities between Roguelike Mafias and CYOMs that I could confuse the two.
I RVS vote nothing because RVS votes are dumb.
@Jim Groovester:
Two scum?
I assume so.
I don't have enough history of Roguelike Mafias to know if the random items make enough difference for the town that they can deal with a 3p mafia team in a 9p game.
Post by: notquitethere on May 27, 2021, 03:03:38 pm
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?
Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 03:42:56 pm
ToonyMan, webadict, if I did nothing and let you do the heavy lifting would I still win the game?Maybe.
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?Are you there?
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?Not really. It makes town inspects mean less though.
Post by: webadict on May 27, 2021, 03:46:14 pm
ToonyMan is probs Town.How's it feel to be back, Toony?I feel like The Flash. Everybody is moving in slow motion around me here.Also, what would you say if I told you I picked Paladin?Me too.
Question you, why did you pick Paladin? We all know you'll be dead by day 3.TricMagic is leanscum.
ToonyMan, webadict, if I did nothing and let you do the heavy lifting would I still win the game?I feel you leaning Town, and since I believe Toony is Town, then yes, because I am also Town.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?Absolutely, which is why I did.
Leanscum for you btw.
Post by: webadict on May 27, 2021, 03:48:57 pm
Anyone else that'd like to claim so now, please do so.
Post by: TricMagic on May 27, 2021, 04:00:54 pm
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
Post by: notquitethere on May 27, 2021, 04:14:49 pm
For those following along at home, I picked Paladin when I played this game last: as a serial killer it was a no-brainer. I'm undecided whether it's a scummy pick per se. Having an inspect scroll as town is a potential game changer. Bit less neat if you get NK'd N1 for claiming paladin (but I'm sure Web knows what he's doing, I can think of at least three possibilities: less said the better).
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 04:15:20 pm
Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
You should have been a merchant. You're a real star over at Risky Ventures. If I sheep you, will you borrow money from me? ;D
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 04:17:23 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 04:41:00 pm
Everyone else: Get the joke?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 04:49:57 pm
Jim Groovester: Do you think Web and Toonyman will figure out the format in such a way as to win by the end of the first day?
Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?
Post by: TricMagic on May 27, 2021, 05:01:22 pm
I'm a Merchant. I say this so that players that inspect me as Town know I'm Town. Plus, my overall behavior should confirm that I'm merchanty.Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
You should have been a merchant. You're a real star over at Risky Ventures. If I sheep you, will you borrow money from me? ;D
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
I'll tell you tomorrow~
Post by: webadict on May 27, 2021, 05:24:51 pm
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Because you feel scummy, of course.
Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?I'd do it. I'd shoot everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else because you guys would shoot me first.
You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 27, 2021, 06:13:17 pm
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Archeologist. I liked the idea of having a higher chance to find Artifacts.
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.I'm sorry, but how does claiming what his items are prove he's a bard? This feels fishy. As in itemfishing-y. If you have reasoning, I'd love to hear it. Furthermore, how does proving he's a bard point to whether he's town or mafia?
You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.Wait, web, why do you always make reads so early?
Oh, and I'll take this time to say I'm a Paladin, so inspects are useless on me.Paladin is an interesting double-edged sword. A free inspection scroll, but in return, inspects are useless on you. I'd say it's most powerful when only one or two people pick it, and less powerful when there's many people picking it. Would anyone else care to claim Paladin as well? We need to get that set out as a baseline before anyone with inspection starts to use it.
Anyone else that'd like to claim so now, please do so.
Personally, I don't even think picking Paladin is indicative of alignment. There's reasons for both town and mafia to pick it, and reasons for both town and mafia to not pick it. I'll prefer to focus on behavior.
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?Unless you know something I don't, no. Not in the slightest. Even with the Roguelike Mafia stuff, I don't think that's a good idea. Lynching, execution, whatever you prefer to call it - it's still the town's greatest source of information. Who's taken down, and how, in hindsight, people interacted with regards to the fallen.
If there were no viable candidates by day end, I'd be willing to consider it, but something makes me doubt that will happen.
Why would you ask this?
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?... what even is this question, buddy. Seriously, I'd like an explanation.
webadict, because reasons.
Post by: prefuzek on May 27, 2021, 06:14:51 pm
@prefuzek:I can't remember. I went back and looked a bit and couldn't find any games we both played. I plan on having fun and hunting scum, and I'm all out of fun.
Have we played before? What do you plan on doing?
Quote
(also your avatar is going to confuse me greatly since it's similar to someone else's on MU)I noticed that (I was following along with that game a bit). I have no relation to itslevi.
FallacyofUrist: Rereading my last game, apparently I misread you as scum. How should I avoid doing that in this game?
Notquitethere: How do you tell the difference between scum and bad town?
TricMagic:
Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.Why claim this now? Seems to me that Webadict was just asking for Paladin claims.
Quote
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Pretty jumpy there, aren't you? How would this help Web stay in the shadows?
Post by: prefuzek on May 27, 2021, 06:18:11 pm
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?
Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?Super blatant rolefishing here. If you're town, why is this helpful for you to know right now?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 06:43:50 pm
Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?No. And just to be clear, I'm not a Paladin either. I was joking earlier with Web.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 27, 2021, 07:09:57 pm
FallacyofUrist: Rereading my last game, apparently I misread you as scum. How should I avoid doing that in this game?Look at what I do, and only secondarily what I say. Action is key. Read over the previous games I've been in, if you like. Learn my tells. If I have any, I don't know what they are, though.
webadict: Who would you shoot with a 1-Shot day kill, if you had to shoot at this very moment? (Or choose yourself) And why?
Post by: webadict on May 27, 2021, 08:27:28 pm
1. So that record of my mental state and reads are available to judge me on thoroughly. It's also helpful to me because my time is limited, so knowing what I felt earlier can be a good way to remember why I felt like that.FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.Wait, web, why do you always make reads so early?Oh, and I'll take this time to say I'm a Paladin, so inspects are useless on me.Paladin is an interesting double-edged sword. A free inspection scroll, but in return, inspects are useless on you. I'd say it's most powerful when only one or two people pick it, and less powerful when there's many people picking it. Would anyone else care to claim Paladin as well? We need to get that set out as a baseline before anyone with inspection starts to use it.
Anyone else that'd like to claim so now, please do so.
Personally, I don't even think picking Paladin is indicative of alignment. There's reasons for both town and mafia to pick it, and reasons for both town and mafia to not pick it. I'll prefer to focus on behavior.
...
webadict, because reasons.
2. I claimed specifically because it puts me under scrutiny if I don't. If someone found out later I am a Paladin and I didn't claim as such, it'd be hella scummy. Paladins are the only class that needs to claim ASAP because of information imbalance. Additionally, claiming early as a Paladin is inherently a pro-Town move.
3. Rude.
4. Townlean.
You get a scumlean for this. Well, at least until I thought about it a bit... I misinterpeted at first, but I don't like how you notice my presence but don't directly address me, and pseudodefend me. Very pockety. But, also pressurey, but on TricMagic... Double-edged sword. Slight scumlean.QuoteWeb, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Pretty jumpy there, aren't you? How would this help Web stay in the shadows?
Scumpoints for going back on your word.Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?No. And just to be clear, I'm not a Paladin either. I was joking earlier with Web.
webadict: Who would you shoot with a 1-Shot day kill, if you had to shoot at this very moment? (Or choose yourself) And why?Mmmmmmmmmm... prefuzek. Scumdar is pinging on them. I likely won'tget the evidence to string 'em, so that's why I'd shoot. I'd then shoot TricMagic, notquitethere, and then... Idk, BK? They haven't talked yet, but they are super sneaky scum.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 08:44:26 pm
EuchrejackBut seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?Super blatant rolefishing here. If you're town, why is this helpful for you to know right now?
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Archeologist. I liked the idea of having a higher chance to find Artifacts.But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.I'm sorry, but how does claiming what his items are prove he's a bard? This feels fishy. As in itemfishing-y. If you have reasoning, I'd love to hear it. Furthermore, how does proving he's a bard point to whether he's town or mafia?
So, to explain my thought process, players saying what role they have now helps prevent Mafia Paladins from pretending to be another class. Mafia Paladins want to claim something else that is semi-believable, knowing they'll inspect as Town. By forcing players to claim NOW, we can view player behavior in the future to determine if they are in fact their claimed class, or actually Paladins.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 08:46:19 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 09:06:44 pm
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Because you feel scummy, of course.Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?I'd do it. I'd shoot everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else because you guys would shoot me first.
You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.
Oh goody, another game in which I'm pocketed by Web. ::)
It worked out well the last two times when you were Town, would be catastrophic if you are Scum/Mafia. I'm reasonably sure the only reason you are pretending that I'm anything but 100% Town is to both hide the pocketing and push me further into your pocket. In a few posts you'll be like, "Oh, EuchreJack is totally Town, like 100%"
Anyone know if we can trade/give items without using them. For example, I got a Scroll of Curse Armor. It basically means its more likely that a kill will "stick". Look up the item if you want a clearer explanation. As a merchant, I can discard it for a 33% chance of getting another Common item. Can I give/trade it to another player without using it on that player? It's the sort of thing best used in conjunction with an actual killing item, to greater guarantee the kill or negate the armor before the kill. Coordinating who gets targeted in the open by two confirmed town players seems less optimal than two confirmed town players just pooling their resources onto one player that makes the final decision.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 09:13:01 pm
Unless they're actually just mafia with Web, but I don't think that's the case currently.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 09:14:56 pm
I don't want there to be a misunderstanding down the line. I think actual Paladins should claim now if they want to be believed later.Scumpoints for going back on your word.Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?No. And just to be clear, I'm not a Paladin either. I was joking earlier with Web.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 09:27:39 pm
Hello everyone. I'm pleased to be back in a Roguelike again, and pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer this time.
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?
Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?
Notquitethere, you remind me of the Nightmare.
Suggesting a no-lynch - BAD
Strangely specific denial: "pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer", implying that there is no way you could be scum twice in a row - BAD
Discouraging Paladin claims, thereby helping scum: "Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious", Implying that Paladins should NOT claim immediately - BAD
My gut is telling me that Paladin claims now are vital to Town, but I need to do further research on exactly why. Probably comes down to some scroll determining roll, and that only scum would want to hide their Paladin class as long as possible.
And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. Assuming, this is possible. Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player". The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 09:30:34 pm
And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. Assuming, this is possible. Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player". The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.
Just wanted to clarify that I didn't read deep enough, I was reading the "Order of Operation" and thought it was supposed to define Inspection there.
Scroll of Inspection You are informed of the target's alignment. Possible results are Town, Mafia, and Third Party.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 09:37:51 pm
Looking over the various scrolls, I came across that one. Any good Town uses for it? Seems a "mostly scum" scroll to me.
I mean, it could be used for a crazy unhelpful town gambit, hence my qualify it is Good Town play.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 27, 2021, 09:50:26 pm
7. Currently, there is no sharing or trading of items, even among mafia teams.It's in the rules, Jack.
The inspect scrolls are nice, but it's also important to know which players are saying they'll (normally) always come up town.
If only one Paladin claims then that's fine too since we have a lot of town with items tonight *wink wink*. I agree with Jim that this is likely a 2 scum setup so.
Toonyman: "Scroll of Shapeshift: Target inspects as an alignment of your choice tonight. You may choose Town, Mafia, or Third Party."Only scum would use that scroll. A player with that item isn't necessarily scum though.
Looking over the various scrolls, I came across that one. Any good Town uses for it? Seems a "mostly scum" scroll to me.
I mean, it could be used for a crazy unhelpful town gambit, hence my qualify it is Good Town play.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 09:59:41 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 27, 2021, 10:50:22 pm
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
I'm not scum.
Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?I think so?
While it does have a rather anti-town vibe, I think it could be used to great advantage - we only have one lynch per day, after all. So a town!Thief could be an additional pressure against known mafia players - or be used to check players who are lying about inventories or not.
I wouldn't lynch a Thief just for picking them. It would make me more suspicious of them, sure, but it's not a pure mafia!tell for me.
BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...I was busy, and this took a while to start. I'll get into the hang of things tomorrow.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 27, 2021, 11:02:19 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 28, 2021, 12:07:51 am
If there end up being a lot of Paladin claims it might be worth verifying that a couple of them actually inspect town like they're supposed to. I think we've heard from everybody and only have one paladin claim, however.
Question you, why did you pick Paladin? We all know you'll be dead by day 3.
Didn't really pay too close attention when I made my first post but this caught my eye. I reread some games recently where I make mention of the 'webadict alive by Day 3 rule' as a metric for whether he's scum or not and this post reminded me of it.
How are you so certain that webadict will be dead by Day 3?
ToonyMan, webadict, if I did nothing and let you do the heavy lifting would I still win the game?I feel you leaning Town, and since I believe Toony is Town, then yes, because I am also Town.
Awesome.
See you guys later, I'll be back in time to claim victory.
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
People have already poked you for your blatant role fishing.
I don't really care about the role fishing so much but items seems to be of slightly more significance than roles so fishing for items concerns me slightly more.
So, to explain my thought process, players saying what role they have now helps prevent Mafia Paladins from pretending to be another class. Mafia Paladins want to claim something else that is semi-believable, knowing they'll inspect as Town. By forcing players to claim NOW, we can view player behavior in the future to determine if they are in fact their claimed class, or actually Paladins.
I don't follow your explanation for why you would need to know TricMagic's items.
Everyone else: Get the joke?
No.
Jim Groovester: Do you think Web and Toonyman will figure out the format in such a way as to win by the end of the first day?
They might figure out the game by the end of Day 1 but if there aren't enough available resources in the town to eliminate all the threats to the town then it's impossible to win by the end of Day 1.
I'm not even sure Day kills are possible in this game.
You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.Wait, web, why do you always make reads so early?
Why not?
Day 1 gut feel reads can be accurate and sometimes even more so than the more 'developed' reads later in the game.
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?... what even is this question, buddy. Seriously, I'd like an explanation.
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
I'm not scum.
Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?
Because Vector and BluearianKnight were scum in Revolutions and Gnosia, two games which also featured webadict and ToonyMan putting the rest of the town in a car and taking a road trip to victory.
But Vector isn't a player in this game (but is on the replacement list!) so I couldn't ask the question I wanted to ask. Mostly, is this game going to be a repeat of recent games or not.
I think so?
Such confidence.
Jim Groovester: What are your reads?
FallacyofUrist - townish
EuchreJack - consistent with his goofball town meta
webadict - webadictish i.e. null
ToonyMan - slightly weaker ToonyManish
prefuzek - null
notquitethere - null
BluearianKnight - null
TricMagic - feels quieter?
TricMagic feels off, like he should be noisier so if I had to shoot somebody right now it would be TricMagic. FallacyofUrist feels like he's playing to his town meta, or at least, it doesn't feel like scum FallacyofUrist since scum FallacyofUrist makes a conscious effort to make shows about how town he is. EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place but that's in keeping with his town meta.
webadict is consistent with webadict, which tells me nothing since I can't read him. ToonyMan feels like a slightly weaker presence than I'm used to but maybe that's just from watching him in the championship game. (I think ToonyMan played great in the championship game so me saying "hmm you know he feels a bit weaker than normal" feels like an unnecessarily jackass thing to say about him.) Everyone else I don't have enough of a read to make an opinion about.
Those are mine. What about yours, EuchreJack?
Let's go with TricMagic.
Anyways I'm going to start throwing beers back but I'll also be around to answer questions and stuff since drunk mafia is surprisingly entertaining to play.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 01:10:54 am
Quote
"EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place"Hey now, not everyone got to learn mafia correctly and properly like you wamby pampily veterans. So far, this random mess is the closest I've gotten to playing real mafia. Part of me would really appreciate being told how to "properly" play the game, rather than getting insulted all the time.
That said, you're an ass, but that fits into our Town meta. Your whole post was what I'd expect from Town Jim, so thanks for answering. I do like your summaries, even if they're somewhat outdated. Provides a nice analysis of very basic things people should know.
Reads:
EuchreJack - Town
Jim Groovester - Town
Webadict - slightly Town
Toonyman - slightly Town
FallacyofUrist - slightly Town
prefuzek - Null, since I've got so little meta to work with, and nothing has set me off so far
TricMagic - Null, hasn't posted enough for me to read yet
BluearianKnight - Scum
Notquitethere - Scum
Of course, this is all tentative. I almost gave Webadict, Toonyman, FallacyofUrist null labels "to keep the pressure on", but I figured Town needed to know that I thought they seemed town even if they need further scrutiny. Hence this disclaimer.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 28, 2021, 03:10:13 am
Quote"EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place"Hey now, not everyone got to learn mafia correctly and properly like you wamby pampily veterans. So far, this random mess is the closest I've gotten to playing real mafia. Part of me would really appreciate being told how to "properly" play the game, rather than getting insulted all the time.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
SINK OR SWIM
FIGHT OR FLIGHT
DO OR DIE
IF YOU WIN YOU LIVE IF YOU LOSE YOU DIE YOU CANT WIN IF YOU DONT FIGHT TATAKAE TATAKAE
YOU THINK WE KNEW HAD ANYBODY TO TEACH US HOW TO PLAY MAFIA FROM THE START THINK AGAIN PAL WE HAD TO FIGURE IT OUT ALL FOR OURSELVES
YOU THINK WE RUN BEGINNERS MAFIAS TO TEACH NEW PLAYERS HOW WE PLAY ANYMORE THINK AGAIN PAL
THINK EUCHREJACK THINK
That said, you're an ass,
TRUEST THING YOU'VE SAID ALL DAY PAL
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on May 28, 2021, 04:52:45 am
notquitethere How do I play this game? Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.For the most part, it's a normal mafia game: use the day game to find scum. Every day you'll get a random object from a quest (unless you raid the central reserve of items instead). These items give you new abilities to use at night.
all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection.You can't give items to other players, read the OP.
Also, to address the points worth addressing:
- I wasn't suggesting a no lynch, I was seeing what Fallacy thought of the idea.
- Paladins are like cops, usually you don't want the cops claiming D1!
prefuzek
Notquitethere: How do you tell the difference between scum and bad town?Sometimes they do look very similar, but scum have additional tells in how they interact with their buddies, they inspect differently, and use their abilities differently too. Scum have an agenda, bad town don't.
Quickfire reads:
Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 07:03:31 am
I think Jim and NQT are probably town too.
Let's go with TricMagic. Jim is never wrong.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 07:10:22 am
If there end up being a lot of Paladin claims it might be worth verifying that a couple of them actually inspect town like they're supposed to. I think we've heard from everybody and only have one paladin claim, however.Yeah I think we're good on that front. The only claimed Paladin is Webadict.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 07:22:13 am
Oh goody, another game in which I'm pocketed by Web. ::)At first I was gonna say you're wrong, but I changed my mind, EuchreJack is totally 100% Town.
It worked out well the last two times when you were Town, would be catastrophic if you are Scum/Mafia. I'm reasonably sure the only reason you are pretending that I'm anything but 100% Town is to both hide the pocketing and push me further into your pocket. In a few posts you'll be like, "Oh, EuchreJack is totally Town, like 100%"
@Jim: LOL. Okay Jim is Town.
@NQT: Dislike your pushes. ToonyMan is semi-legit, but FoSing FoU is FoBad. Very, very pockety behavior coming from NQT, who believes I am Town almost in spite of myself. Almost like they don't want to be inspected.
See the Paladin claim is a gambit that scum can easily pull. In fact, I was expecting at least one. But maybe the scum didn't want to put a target on themselves. I am willing to bet that scum probably did pick (at least one) Paladin and have now hid that fact, but I also don't necessarily believe more than 1 did.
I definitely see scum equity in NQT.
@ToonyMan: I only agree on Jim, but I think you slide more into scumlean territory each post. No like. Divesting from Toony LLC. ASAP.
PPE: Technically yes, but why do you necessarily even believe me? Why does anyone believe me?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 07:38:16 am
See the Paladin claim is a gambit that scum can easily pull. In fact, I was expecting at least one. But maybe the scum didn't want to put a target on themselves. I am willing to bet that scum probably did pick (at least one) Paladin and have now hid that fact, but I also don't necessarily believe more than 1 did.
My theory is that Scum would pick one Paladin and one other roll (and one other roll if there are more than two), unless they were unable to consult prior to picking classes.
I mean, why put two Godfathers on a team, when they could have a Godfather and a Bulletproof/Strongman/Doctor/whatever?
PPE: Technically yes, but why do you necessarily even believe me? Why does anyone believe me?
I don't.
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE ELSE: Respond to Web's question please!
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 08:27:52 am
I agree that EuchreJack and FoU are town. This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283018#msg8283018) seems good. On first read I thought NQT's latest post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283125#msg8283125) was good but rereading it I can't figure out why.
webadict:
Mmmmmmmmmm... prefuzek. Scumdar is pinging on them. I likely won'tget the evidence to string 'em, so that's why I'd shoot. I'd then shoot TricMagic, notquitethere, and then... Idk, BK? They haven't talked yet, but they are super sneaky scum.Why the bolded part? I don't think you've seen me play; you have no idea how I'd stand up to pressure. Not going to bother?
I dislike how a lot of people are putting the stronger scum players on the town side of their readslist.
webadict,, Jim, Toonyman: When's the last time you were lynched D1?
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 08:31:21 am
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 08:43:14 am
webadict:Hmm... Nah, it's not about not bothering. It's exactly as you say, though. I don't know you enough to have evidence for my gutread. So, my instincts tell me that I could point out what's scummy about you and that will be fine for Tomorrow, but unlikely to get you Today. Which is honestly fine with me, because sometimes that's just how it is.Mmmmmmmmmm... prefuzek. Scumdar is pinging on them. I likely won'tget the evidence to string 'em, so that's why I'd shoot. I'd then shoot TricMagic, notquitethere, and then... Idk, BK? They haven't talked yet, but they are super sneaky scum.Why the bolded part? I don't think you've seen me play; you have no idea how I'd stand up to pressure. Not going to bother?
I dislike how a lot of people are putting the stronger scum players on the town side of their readslist.... I have only ever been launched D1 twice (that I remember and counting only big games and not Vengeful Mafia 12.5/smaller games), and that was when I no-scoped ToonyMan with an Assassin Bot in Paranormal before they even had a chance to post, which was funny but Town lost real hard because of that; and in Bay12 Mafia Mafia, where I was hammered by Alexhans so that I could be revived and confirmed and then slowly cause the Town to lose while playing Spreadsheet Mafia.
webadict,, Jim, Toonyman: When's the last time you were lynched D1?
Overall, my being elimmed before D3 typically loses my side the game (though the data shows this is true for any alignment I'm apart of, so I can't argue it's always beneficial for Town) and the contra-positive is also true, so I'm usually against it. #wubaforprez #protectwuba
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 08:47:02 am
Too bad. If there's a mafia lying about being a Paladin the only person it could be now is you.
@prefuzek:
I got lynched D1 in BYOR15 and it was awful.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 08:52:31 am
Why did you give a full player list of reads already?
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 08:53:52 am
@Webadict:Oooohhhh, clever, I like that little turnaround you did on that wordplay.
Too bad. If there's a mafia lying about being a Paladin the only person it could be now is you.
Alright, I'm willing to Townread NQT for now, then. I got you. I see what you're laying down. I'm reading the signals. I'm in on the know. I'm picking up what you're putting down. I'm understanding the hidden depths of your secret knowledge.
Who else is Town?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 09:05:54 am
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 09:07:55 am
What?What?
Post by: Toaster on May 28, 2021, 09:10:56 am
Toaster: are there hammers?
No, though I do allow votes to Shorten (with 60% needed to pass it.)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:14:07 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:14:32 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 09:15:16 am
Post by: Toaster on May 28, 2021, 09:18:10 am
EuchreJack:
notquitethere:
TricMagic: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan,
prefuzek: webadict,
BluarianKnight:
webadict: FallacyofUrist, prefuzek,
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan: notquitethere,
Not Voting: TricMagic, BluarianKnight, EuchreJack,
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 10 PM EST.
SHORTEN
Techincally a shorten vote is Bold (and on its own line so I see it) instead of Red. Is this a serious shorten request or are you just testing the system? I don't have an automated vote counter.
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 09:20:25 am
TricMagic:Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.Why claim this now? Seems to me that Webadict was just asking for Paladin claims.QuoteWeb, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Pretty jumpy there, aren't you? How would this help Web stay in the shadows?
Web can't be inspected.(unless he's lying about his role again.) As a paladin, he's up on hit list for mafia if he is telling the truth. If he isn't dead by day three though he's probably mafia if he doesn't find scum. The only case this isn't the case is if someone protected him from kills.
I claimed Bard and Random Choice because of the fact random does mean that things will be either picked for balance, or actually random.
I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.The more Randoms there are, the more likely those roles don't exist for others. Then again, it could be actually random. But telling town I'm a Bard doesn't tell you what items I have on me. For all you know I could be able to kill someone, or I could be able to protect someone. So there really isn't much of a loss to revealing it this early, scum still doesn't know what I can do, so they have to decide between killing me, or web. But I tend to make for an easy lynch target, until I don't and turn things around on them.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:23:02 am
Personally I want Web around for N1 to see what happens.That almost sounds you're trying to goad Web into killing you. +1 Town point for your meta!
Then again, if Web is Paladin and you're mafia Paladin, it's goading for an inspect that you know you'll pass. +1 scum point
Sorry ToonyMan, it's a wash.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:24:52 am
SHORTEN
Techincally a shorten vote is Bold (and on its own line so I see it) instead of Red. Is this a serious shorten request or are you just testing the system? I don't have an automated vote counter.
Actual request, sorry I didn't understand the system.
SHORTEN
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:28:02 am
TricMagic:Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.Why claim this now? Seems to me that Webadict was just asking for Paladin claims.QuoteWeb, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Pretty jumpy there, aren't you? How would this help Web stay in the shadows?
Web can't be inspected.(unless he's lying about his role again.) As a paladin, he's up on hit list for mafia if he is telling the truth. If he isn't dead by day three though he's probably mafia if he doesn't find scum. The only case this isn't the case is if someone protected him from kills.
I claimed Bard and Random Choice because of the fact random does mean that things will be either picked for balance, or actually random.I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.The more Randoms there are, the more likely those roles don't exist for others. Then again, it could be actually random. But telling town I'm a Bard doesn't tell you what items I have on me. For all you know I could be able to kill someone, or I could be able to protect someone. So there really isn't much of a loss to revealing it this early, scum still doesn't know what I can do, so they have to decide between killing me, or web. But I tend to make for an easy lynch target, until I don't and turn things around on them.
Ugh, my head hurts. I didn't know it was Tric posting. Welcome to team Town, Tric.
Sorry Toaster, but:
UNSHORTEN
Double sorry if shorten votes can't be withdrawn.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 09:29:09 am
Also, my guess for scum is the following:
TricMagic
prefuzek
BluarianKnight
ToonyMan
With the top being most likely scum and the bottom being least likely.
I have a 91% confidence that both scum are in this list.
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 09:31:09 am
EuchreJacknotquitethere How do I play this game? Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.For the most part, it's a normal mafia game: use the day game to find scum. Every day you'll get a random object from a quest (unless you raid the central reserve of items instead). These items give you new abilities to use at night.all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection.You can't give items to other players, read the OP.
Also, to address the points worth addressing:
- I wasn't suggesting a no lynch, I was seeing what Fallacy thought of the idea.
- Paladins are like cops, usually you don't want the cops claiming D1!
prefuzekNotquitethere: How do you tell the difference between scum and bad town?Sometimes they do look very similar, but scum have additional tells in how they interact with their buddies, they inspect differently, and use their abilities differently too. Scum have an agenda, bad town don't.
Quickfire reads:
Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum
I was going to note that NQT is pinging scum for me but.
Seriously Jack, what the heck? I just got to reading through this stuff, and already shortening the day?SHORTEN
Techincally a shorten vote is Bold (and on its own line so I see it) instead of Red. Is this a serious shorten request or are you just testing the system? I don't have an automated vote counter.
Actual request, sorry I didn't understand the system.
SHORTEN
Ninjas.. NQT, not claiming paladin if you are a paladin is good. We either get multiple kill targets meaning at least one inspect goes through, leading to a strong day 2, or any protect items can be used on the paladin, and claimed day 2 with the inspect result. Once an item is used, it's gone.
ninnininin.
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 09:36:06 am
Personally I want Web around for N1 to see what happens.Good point. Unvote
Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Tricmagic:
But I tend to make for an easy lynch target, until I don't and turn things around on them.How do you feel about having two votes on you now? Do you think either of them are scum looking for an easy lynch?
web:
Quote
Hmm... Nah, it's not about not bothering. It's exactly as you say, though. I don't know you enough to have evidence for my gutread. So, my instincts tell me that I could point out what's scummy about you and that will be fine for Tomorrow, but unlikely to get you Today. Which is honestly fine with me, because sometimes that's just how it is.What's your plan for today then? Also, do you have faith in your ability to read Jim?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:40:19 am
Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 09:45:08 am
What's your plan for today then? Also, do you have faith in your ability to read Jim?The same thing it is every Day: Try to
And no, not really, but I play this game like it's poker.
wtf are you doing?Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:46:20 am
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 09:47:42 am
wtf are you doing?Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
Imitating you? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 09:48:52 am
Web is obviously going to be based off of what happens night 1. And as a pladin, voting them off day 1 is just dumb given they have an inspect scroll to use and confirm someone.
Jack, why did you want to shorten so quickly, and why are you voting blue now?
ninjas..
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 09:51:02 am
My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
You are slowly creeping up there jack. My post wasn't gibberish, so you should have gotten something out of it if you actually read the thing.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 09:56:59 am
Right now it's NQT, Jack, and I'd say you, prefuzek. Though the last is more not knowing you to base reads off of, it just feels like a weird playstyle you're using.*ALARMS BLARING*
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.Why are you doing this?
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 28, 2021, 09:59:17 am
Euchrejack - Why in such a rush to end D1?
TricMagic - Are you trying to change your town!meta?
prefuzek - I haven't seen you around before, have you played this format before?
I'd previously put some belief in a Tric or Toony vote D1 - Tric is playing a little too solid, and Toony hasn't really put down much, but -
EuchreJack - the fuck are you doing?
If you've got a genuine reason, I'd like to hear it - but shortening then switching votes without reason either means you've no idea what you're doing, or flopping as scum.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 28, 2021, 10:00:05 am
Right now it's NQT, Jack, and I'd say you, prefuzek. Though the last is more not knowing you to base reads off of, it just feels like a weird playstyle you're using.*ALARMS BLARING*
WEEE WOOO WEEE WOO
Yeah, agreed - the fuck?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 28, 2021, 10:30:45 am
But actually, there is at least one genuine reason to suspect NQT, although Tric doesn't state it.
Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum
This reads-list is low effort. It shows in several ways, but most specifically: NQT's highest town read has no justification. Whatsoever. In fact, the typical curve of 'most effort put into highest town reads, most effort put into highest scum reads, least effort put into null reads' is inverted. NQT puts less justification into the people he thinks are most town and most scum, and puts the most effort into the reads in the middle. This doesn't make sense. The vote on Toony could just as easily have been placed on Tric or Bluarian. Furthermore, he calls my incentive vote on webadict a 'push'. Does anyone else think I'm actually pushing webadict?
This is a full reads list, at page 4. I don't buy it. I don't think it's justified. I don't think there's any point to it other than looking town.
So it's NQT and prefuzek. Prefuzek gets the FoS due to being on the third spot of NQT's list, yet getting the most town justification out of everyone.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 10:36:27 am
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 28, 2021, 10:38:11 am
Jim Groovester: What are your reads?
FallacyofUrist - townish
EuchreJack - consistent with his goofball town meta
webadict - webadictish i.e. null
ToonyMan - slightly weaker ToonyManish
prefuzek - null
notquitethere - null
BluearianKnight - null
TricMagic - feels quieter?
TricMagic feels off, like he should be noisier so if I had to shoot somebody right now it would be TricMagic. FallacyofUrist feels like he's playing to his town meta, or at least, it doesn't feel like scum FallacyofUrist since scum FallacyofUrist makes a conscious effort to make shows about how town he is. EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place but that's in keeping with his town meta.
webadict is consistent with webadict, which tells me nothing since I can't read him. ToonyMan feels like a slightly weaker presence than I'm used to but maybe that's just from watching him in the championship game. (I think ToonyMan played great in the championship game so me saying "hmm you know he feels a bit weaker than normal" feels like an unnecessarily jackass thing to say about him.) Everyone else I don't have enough of a read to make an opinion about.
Alright, for the sake of consistency, I'm also going to note Jim's early reads list, and why I don't think that he's scum.
The main reason is that his reads list: 1, doesn't try to imitate the structure of a reads list in the mid to late game, that is, Day 2 or 3 onwards. 2, it's consistent in its expression. Every player gets roughly the same amount of effort, which makes sense for a list made primarily of quick judgements. 3, it doesn't try to prop anyone up. In comparison with NQT's list, it feels unbiased.
In contrast, we have NQT:
Quickfire reads:Whose reads are half quickfire and half very much not quickfire.
Tric is townreading me wtf???Tric is Tric. Tric does as Tric is wont to do.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 10:38:59 am
My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Should I repeat this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
Sure, bring it up again on Day 2, but new questions please?
Now, why vote Blue?
BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
I'm not scum.
Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?I think so?
While it does have a rather anti-town vibe, I think it could be used to great advantage - we only have one lynch per day, after all. So a town!Thief could be an additional pressure against known mafia players - or be used to check players who are lying about inventories or not.
I wouldn't lynch a Thief just for picking them. It would make me more suspicious of them, sure, but it's not a pure mafia!tell for me.BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...I was busy, and this took a while to start. I'll get into the hang of things tomorrow.
Blue: "I'm not scum, please oh please don't lynch me" AKA The Scum Theme Song
Also, no scum hunting.
I was paying coy, because I wanted to see if Blue was busy Townie or lurking Scum. Since Blue is now engaged in the thread, I don't have to play coy any longer.
Time will tell whether the current scumhunting by Blue is smokescreen or legit. Pretty quick to jump on bandwagons and only offend those directly confronting them...
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 10:45:07 am
Fal's reasoning is sound. Which will push him up there as town for me if NQT flips as scum. I might do an oldschool wall to bring things together for a NQT push later today We'll see if my energy keeps up..
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 10:49:41 am
Don't try and deflect Jack. Was there a reason you wanted to push a quicklynch while I was sleeping? It's a good way to cut off information if you succeeded, and there could be third parties this game. So your current actions could be third-party being alone.My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Should I repeat this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
Sure, bring it up again on Day 2, but new questions please?
Now, why vote Blue?The Scum Theme Song is Wrong. This was 12 hours ago, so while it may be tomorrow, it's not quite time to say what you are saying. So why try and push a blue lynch when they haven't even fully started up yet?BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
I'm not scum.
Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?I think so?
While it does have a rather anti-town vibe, I think it could be used to great advantage - we only have one lynch per day, after all. So a town!Thief could be an additional pressure against known mafia players - or be used to check players who are lying about inventories or not.
I wouldn't lynch a Thief just for picking them. It would make me more suspicious of them, sure, but it's not a pure mafia!tell for me.BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...I was busy, and this took a while to start. I'll get into the hang of things tomorrow.
Blue: "I'm not scum, please oh please don't lynch me" AKA The Scum Theme Song
Also, no scum hunting.
I was paying coy, because I wanted to see if Blue was busy Townie or lurking Scum. Since Blue is now engaged in the thread, I don't have to play coy any longer.
Time will tell whether the current scumhunting by Blue is smokescreen or legit. Pretty quick to jump on bandwagons and only offend those directly confronting them...
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 10:50:39 am
What you've done is literally destroyed your credibility, and Blu hasn't, so... I'm gonna shield BK. Is that unfair of me? Yes. Am I still going to do it? Yes. Because you've essentially made it look like you're going to be anti-Town, even if I do still think you're Town.
So, I need you to reign in that nonsense a bit. You don't get to be crazy just because you're pocketed.
@TricMagic: Pick a better target. It's not Euchre.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 28, 2021, 10:53:52 am
I'll note I did actually quote the post you quoted, then saw the latest post was apparently Jack shortening. Scroll down, see the votes are currently tied.
Fal's reasoning is sound. Which will push him up there as town for me if NQT flips as scum. I might do an oldschool wall to bring things together for a NQT push later today We'll see if my energy keeps up..
An oldschool wall?
From TricMagic?
What?
This strikes as me as very out of character for you.
More later when I'm done with work. Or during work if something really catches my eye.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 11:21:10 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 11:23:54 am
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 28, 2021, 11:26:00 am
Blue: "I'm not scum, please oh please don't lynch me" AKA The Scum Theme Song
Also, no scum hunting.
I was paying coy, because I wanted to see if Blue was busy Townie or lurking Scum. Since Blue is now engaged in the thread, I don't have to play coy any longer.
Time will tell whether the current scumhunting by Blue is smokescreen or legit. Pretty quick to jump on bandwagons and only offend those directly confronting them...
Okay - let's lay this out then.
If someone asked you if you were scum, you'd say 'oh, I'm 100% scum'?
It's a yes or no question - I'm not scum, so I said no - so jumping on me for saying no is a fucking stretch.
Also - you're complaining that I'm not scumhunting, while you're avoiding my question.
Euchrejack - Why in such a rush to end D1?
Here it is, again - please answer.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 11:29:42 am
@Web: I'll vote who I think is scum, and if you gotta vote me, then I'm not afraid to die. I will however start looking for other suspects. I comment you for trying to pocket two players who are voting each other. Interested to see how that turns out.EuchreJack.
Town players can suspect each other all day long. It doesn't make them not Town. Heck, I'm voting you, and I don't think you're scum. But, the problem here is that you're actively making the game harder by doing shenanigans.
I know it's hard to understand why my shenanigans are different. But, if you'd please, list out what my shenanigans were this game and how they contributed to the current gamestate, and then do the same for yours. I want you to list how useful they've been, and the pros and cons of said actions were.
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.
So is Jack confirmed town now? Pretty sure their partner would be yelling at them in scum chat at this point.I mean, very likely. But, I need Jack to understand that their actions have to have purpose or else it diverts the town's resources to scrutinizing your actions. The only two people that wouldn't be yelling at them are you and I.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 11:31:19 am
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 11:56:12 am
I'll note I did actually quote the post you quoted, then saw the latest post was apparently Jack shortening. Scroll down, see the votes are currently tied.
Fal's reasoning is sound. Which will push him up there as town for me if NQT flips as scum. I might do an oldschool wall to bring things together for a NQT push later today We'll see if my energy keeps up..
An oldschool wall?
From TricMagic?
What?
This strikes as me as very out of character for you.
More later when I'm done with work. Or during work if something really catches my eye.
Believe me, I did do those in the past. Specific version that comes to mind is Moony. I was town that game and caught the wolf. I just don't do them much these days since it requires some maniactic energy from me to scrub through a hundred pages. This would be more like a mini than the multi-wall I did then.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 03:10:05 pm
@Web: I'll vote who I think is scum, and if you gotta vote me, then I'm not afraid to die. I will however start looking for other suspects. I comment you for trying to pocket two players who are voting each other. Interested to see how that turns out.EuchreJack.
Town players can suspect each other all day long. It doesn't make them not Town. Heck, I'm voting you, and I don't think you're scum. But, the problem here is that you're actively making the game harder by doing shenanigans.
I know it's hard to understand why my shenanigans are different. But, if you'd please, list out what my shenanigans were this game and how they contributed to the current gamestate, and then do the same for yours. I want you to list how useful they've been, and the pros and cons of said actions were.
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.So is Jack confirmed town now? Pretty sure their partner would be yelling at them in scum chat at this point.I mean, very likely. But, I need Jack to understand that their actions have to have purpose or else it diverts the town's resources to scrutinizing your actions. The only two people that wouldn't be yelling at them are you and I.
Honestly, I'm not experienced enough to see your shenanigans and analyze them, so I can't promise that I will be able to do that. However, I am in the process of reviewing all of my actions so far and posting analysis. This post is to say that I am working on it. It will take some time. My apologies for the inconvenience.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 28, 2021, 03:43:20 pm
Honestly, I'm not experienced enough to see your shenanigans and analyze them, so I can't promise that I will be able to do that. However, I am in the process of reviewing all of my actions so far and posting analysis. This post is to say that I am working on it. It will take some time. My apologies for the inconvenience.It's always important to keep in mind that Mafia is a game of the informed minority and uninformed majority, where the minority are malevolent. That malevolence is key. The Mafia or whatever other scum may exist are aware of their own malice, and are acting against the town's best interests. Without some truly Byzantine self-delusion, this will leak into their mentality, and without a lot of self-control, their actions.
The question must always be asked, who is genuinely trying their hardest to root out the scum, and who is just trying to look like they're trying their hardest?
This is why I think Euchre is town, at least moderately. They're making what appears to be a true and genuine effort, despite the inconvenience involved. Same for webadict and Jim. Notquitethere seems furthest away from that, and implicates prefuzek by association, though it's not as sure a thing as NQT in my opinion. The rest... are in between, for the moment.
But as the game goes on, the more we'll gain the information needed to deduce who the traitors are.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 04:05:14 pm
Post by: notquitethere on May 28, 2021, 04:20:15 pm
Just popping quickly with a couple of quick thoughts (I'll address thread properly when I get back on PC):
- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.
- What the hell is Euchre doing shortening or unshortening? I like short snappy days too but this is incomprehensible. My theory: he's a jester. Last game showed there could be 3rd parties not mentioned in the OP. Could be same here. Someone got a better theory?
- can I get a vote count? I might be in the lead which is Not Good.
- Not sure why Fallacy doesn't think my reads were "quickfire". I didn't agonise over each one, I just made a snap judgement on what I'd seen in the thread so far. Definitely a nonsense push here.
Post by: notquitethere on May 28, 2021, 04:23:03 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 28, 2021, 04:34:28 pm
EuchreJack: BluarianKnight, webadict
notquitethere: TricMagic, FallacyofUrist
TricMagic: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan
prefuzek:
BluarianKnight: EuchreJack
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan: notquitethere
Not Voting: prefuzek
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 10 PM EST.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 04:46:51 pm
Do we get to know how many of each alignment exist?
Also, everyone should chose Paladin and lie about choosing Paladin. Except maybe Web if they want a handicap. :P
While analysis of pre-game actions, before alignments are distributed, is probably a reach, I think it best to start at the beginning. Bad Joke, probably. Analysis is that this would make life miserable for everyone, since the role ability (the scroll) is useless because the class ability (Paladin) makes the role ability useless.
Overall, hurts Town in this tone. Would have been better to advise that this is the opposite of what Town should be doing.
I'm a Merchant. I say this so that players that inspect me as Town know I'm Town. Plus, my overall behavior should confirm that I'm merchanty.Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
You should have been a merchant. You're a real star over at Risky Ventures. If I sheep you, will you borrow money from me? ;D
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
First post after game started. Strategy: Start establishing to Town that I'm Town, so they can spend time hunting someone else. It has been an effective strategy in the past, so I decided to continue using it. Since Tric claimed to be a Bard, and Bard's only ability is two items at start, trying to accertain that Tric has two items NOW is the best way to establish his identity. Mafia would want to be Paladin and claim some other class, so this is an attempt to "lock in" that class in event that Tric is Mafia.
Problems: Talking to Tric about another forum game confuses everyone except possibly Tric.
Tric, to everyone else apparently, is so easy to read that this is pointless. Tric will out himself without any further effort on my part, whereas Town Tric could use those items to help Town. Probably more helpful if Town doesn't know what the items are.
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?
Following the strategy of getting players to commit to a class NOW, so that Mafia can't be Paladin and claim some other class later. Point of Order - I've played Wolf once in One Night Ultimate Werewolf (probably, Web never did confirm that I "lost", so maybe I was Town). I successfully convinced town to vote someone else, even though I had two players accusing me, by picking the one-and-only role and action combination that could possibly be true. And I knew ToonyMan was lying, so I knew he couldn't prove I was wolf without lying further and looking even more scummy. So I know how vital it is to get confirmations of roles sooner rather than latter, because there may be one possible combination that is "believable". I only has that option because ToonyMan jumped the gun: Had he not lied when he did, I would have been forced to chose something without knowing all the evidence against me, and promptly lost upon the reveal. I think ToonyMan was bored, so he gave me that out for competiveness sake. I hope this look into Wolf Jack is of some use.
FallacyofUrist's response was to claim Archeologist. I am not sure how helpful this is, since the only way to confirm is with a scroll/want/etc that identifies a player's roll.
EuchrejackBut seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?Super blatant rolefishing here. If you're town, why is this helpful for you to know right now?FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Archeologist. I liked the idea of having a higher chance to find Artifacts.But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.I'm sorry, but how does claiming what his items are prove he's a bard? This feels fishy. As in itemfishing-y. If you have reasoning, I'd love to hear it. Furthermore, how does proving he's a bard point to whether he's town or mafia?
So, to explain my thought process, players saying what role they have now helps prevent Mafia Paladins from pretending to be another class. Mafia Paladins want to claim something else that is semi-believable, knowing they'll inspect as Town. By forcing players to claim NOW, we can view player behavior in the future to determine if they are in fact their claimed class, or actually Paladins.
This is my explanation of the above strategy. This seems appropriate to me, although in retrospect, it may have been more helpful to town, and less scummy for me, to have explained my strategy, then ask players what was their class. In the event that a town player though it better for town to not know their class, they could then respond by just disagreeing with me, and later on Town could see if their having been quiet was helping Town or helping them.
BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...This is the beginning of my investigation of Blue. Why investigate Blue? First, I don't hold to the belief that you only investigate one person at a time on day one. I believe you should poke everyone a tiny bit and see what happens. Anything to get the discussion going. Second, I didn't think anyone else was investigating Blue, and everyone should get investigated, and I thought I could do it. I can't really succeed on my own to investigate the experienced players like ToonyMan or Web. Way above my talents.
Problems: Way too agressive at this stage. Turns are 72 hours, so there is time.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Because you feel scummy, of course.Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?I'd do it. I'd shoot everyone. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else because you guys would shoot me first.
You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.
Oh goody, another game in which I'm pocketed by Web. ::)
It worked out well the last two times when you were Town, would be catastrophic if you are Scum/Mafia. I'm reasonably sure the only reason you are pretending that I'm anything but 100% Town is to both hide the pocketing and push me further into your pocket. In a few posts you'll be like, "Oh, EuchreJack is totally Town, like 100%"
Anyone know if we can trade/give items without using them. For example, I got a Scroll of Curse Armor. It basically means its more likely that a kill will "stick". Look up the item if you want a clearer explanation. As a merchant, I can discard it for a 33% chance of getting another Common item. Can I give/trade it to another player without using it on that player? It's the sort of thing best used in conjunction with an actual killing item, to greater guarantee the kill or negate the armor before the kill. Coordinating who gets targeted in the open by two confirmed town players seems less optimal than two confirmed town players just pooling their resources onto one player that makes the final decision.
My lame attempt to at least get someone else to investigate Web. Also trying to show that I'm not a complete idiot as Web is clearly pocketing me.
Maybe a direct attack at the attempt would have been better? I'm not sure the pro/con analysis of this one.
Asking questions about game mechanics and discussing strategy is generally a good thing, so the remainder of the post is good. More people should do that, honestly. I think Scum can ask the GM about game mechanics in Scum chat, although I'm not sure. Which is why it is doubly important the Town ask lots of game mechanic questions, especially in these flavorful games. Discussing strategy for Town has to be done in the thread, so it a good thing. While Mafia is also involved in strategy discussions, they're outnumbered.
Hello everyone. I'm pleased to be back in a Roguelike again, and pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer this time.
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?
Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?
Notquitethere, you remind me of the Nightmare.
Suggesting a no-lynch - BAD
Strangely specific denial: "pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer", implying that there is no way you could be scum twice in a row - BAD
Discouraging Paladin claims, thereby helping scum: "Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious", Implying that Paladins should NOT claim immediately - BAD
My gut is telling me that Paladin claims now are vital to Town, but I need to do further research on exactly why. Probably comes down to some scroll determining roll, and that only scum would want to hide their Paladin class as long as possible.
And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. Assuming, this is possible. Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player". The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.
At this point, NQT had posted. NQT's post looked scummy to me, but I needed more posting from NQT to be sure, so I started a more in-depth investigation of NQT.
Pro: This seemed to help Town further investigate NQT. Also, as indicated I had a gut instinct that Paladin claims now were ideal for Town, but I didn't know WHY. By asking, I was able to get advice from other players on this. I think strategy of Paladins claiming now is a good one.
Con: Should have waited for clarification about how items work before suggesting advice on them. Bad information hurts Town.
And Paladin IS NOT cop, since all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection. Assuming, this is possible. Also assuming "Inspection" means "to identify the alignment of a player". The sparse item dictionary doesn't say what it does, and the Cop roll on MafiaWiki uses the term Investigate for Cops.
Just wanted to clarify that I didn't read deep enough, I was reading the "Order of Operation" and thought it was supposed to define Inspection there.
Scroll of Inspection You are informed of the target's alignment. Possible results are Town, Mafia, and Third Party.
Well, if I had done a better job reading, and though more before posting, I could have avoided this entirely. Bad EJ. Try harder.
Toonyman: "Scroll of Shapeshift: Target inspects as an alignment of your choice tonight. You may choose Town, Mafia, or Third Party."
Looking over the various scrolls, I came across that one. Any good Town uses for it? Seems a "mostly scum" scroll to me.
I mean, it could be used for a crazy unhelpful town gambit, hence my qualify it is Good Town play.
Asking advice: Again always good. Engaging others in conversation I think is also good, as more information helps Town.
Jim Groovester: What are your reads?
Strategy: I figured that I knew the difference between Town Jim and Scum Jim, and this question would get me everything that I needed to determine that. It worked.
FOS BlueBlue's post looked extremely scummy to me, but Blue as scum (and as town) tends to get scared and not post if confronted too strongly. Hence the minor poke to try to get a reaction and more posting. I needed more to convince Town.
Reads are good, asking for advice is good, telling town that 3 players look to me slightly townish but they should be throughly investigated was good. Putting more pressure on Blue.Quote"EuchreJack is committing scumhunting faux pas all over the place"Hey now, not everyone got to learn mafia correctly and properly like you wamby pampily veterans. So far, this random mess is the closest I've gotten to playing real mafia. Part of me would really appreciate being told how to "properly" play the game, rather than getting insulted all the time.
That said, you're an ass, but that fits into our Town meta. Your whole post was what I'd expect from Town Jim, so thanks for answering. I do like your summaries, even if they're somewhat outdated. Provides a nice analysis of very basic things people should know.
Reads:
EuchreJack - Town
Jim Groovester - Town
Webadict - slightly Town
Toonyman - slightly Town
FallacyofUrist - slightly Town
prefuzek - Null, since I've got so little meta to work with, and nothing has set me off so far
TricMagic - Null, hasn't posted enough for me to read yet
BluearianKnight - Scum
Notquitethere - Scum
Of course, this is all tentative. I almost gave Webadict, Toonyman, FallacyofUrist null labels "to keep the pressure on", but I figured Town needed to know that I thought they seemed town even if they need further scrutiny. Hence this disclaimer.
See the Paladin claim is a gambit that scum can easily pull. In fact, I was expecting at least one. But maybe the scum didn't want to put a target on themselves. I am willing to bet that scum probably did pick (at least one) Paladin and have now hid that fact, but I also don't necessarily believe more than 1 did.
My theory is that Scum would pick one Paladin and one other roll (and one other roll if there are more than two), unless they were unable to consult prior to picking classes.
I mean, why put two Godfathers on a team, when they could have a Godfather and a Bulletproof/Strongman/Doctor/whatever?PPE: Technically yes, but why do you necessarily even believe me? Why does anyone believe me?
I don't.
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE ELSE: Respond to Web's question please!
Discussion of strategy benefits town. I thought Web had a really good question, and I sincerely wanted everyone else to answer it. Lazy Jack, should have gone and individually asked people, just left Web to work on it, or ask someone later on why they didn't answer this question. Too meddlesome, I guess?
Best practice in the future would to just answer the damn question and move on.
UNVOTE
At this point, I had felt that NQT was more Town leaning, so I didn't want to vote them anymore. But I wasn't quite ready to put full pressure on Blue, in case Blue just flaked out and failed to give me the info I needed to push for a Lynch.
No problems with unvoting someone that I don't believe is scum.
SHORTEN
Ah, mistake number one, the mistake I will be spending the rest of the game explaining. I do not want to explain this repeatedly. Seriously, I do not. I fucked up HARD. I mean, really really hard.
My thinking, in error, was that everyone was going to Lynch Tric and there was no major benefit for drawing out the voting. I didn't know either way on Tric, but since we have no info on day 1, why draw out the useless early time? I really would like to get to the point where we have evidence to work with. Oh well, I guess if I want to win, I have to roll up my sleeves and do the work. I'll try to be nice as I explain this mistake 1000 different times. It is going to piss me off, but it is the work that I have to do to win.
The later mistakes have a lot to do with timing. At this stage, my strategy was to Unvote NQT, Shorten on Tric for the above stupid awful reason, and Vote Blue. Since my vote of Blue without anything more would likely scare off Blue into not giving me any evidence to get other people to vote Blue, I needed some excuse for why I was doing it. My orignal plan was to make some excuse that I was only voting Blue so that people wouldn't accuse me of Sheeping Web. Yeah, people would have bought that, and I could get more info on Blue.
Personally I want Web around for N1 to see what happens.That almost sounds you're trying to goad Web into killing you. +1 Town point for your meta!
Then again, if Web is Paladin and you're mafia Paladin, it's goading for an inspect that you know you'll pass. +1 scum point
Sorry ToonyMan, it's a wash.
A filler post, I think, to make the above strategy less obvious to Blue. Plus I did review ToonyMan's post in the interim and had that sort of idea. Not sure exactly.
SHORTEN
Techincally a shorten vote is Bold (and on its own line so I see it) instead of Red. Is this a serious shorten request or are you just testing the system? I don't have an automated vote counter.
Actual request, sorry I didn't understand the system.
SHORTEN
As I was writing this, I was having second thoughts. Should have listened to them, but you know how sometimes you've got your mind up to do something and you just do it? Really should listen to those second thoughts. I could see a post, but it looked like prefuzek was quoting Tric. I could not tell, in the posting interface, that it was Tric posting.
CON CON CON, this is hurting Town bad. Part of what I will be explaining throughout the rest of the game.
TricMagic:Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.Why claim this now? Seems to me that Webadict was just asking for Paladin claims.QuoteWeb, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?Pretty jumpy there, aren't you? How would this help Web stay in the shadows?
Web can't be inspected.(unless he's lying about his role again.) As a paladin, he's up on hit list for mafia if he is telling the truth. If he isn't dead by day three though he's probably mafia if he doesn't find scum. The only case this isn't the case is if someone protected him from kills.
I claimed Bard and Random Choice because of the fact random does mean that things will be either picked for balance, or actually random.I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.The more Randoms there are, the more likely those roles don't exist for others. Then again, it could be actually random. But telling town I'm a Bard doesn't tell you what items I have on me. For all you know I could be able to kill someone, or I could be able to protect someone. So there really isn't much of a loss to revealing it this early, scum still doesn't know what I can do, so they have to decide between killing me, or web. But I tend to make for an easy lynch target, until I don't and turn things around on them.
Ugh, my head hurts. I didn't know it was Tric posting. Welcome to team Town, Tric.
Sorry Toaster, but:
UNSHORTEN
Double sorry if shorten votes can't be withdrawn.
At this point, I realize I had fucked up hard because I finally read Tric's post and used the formula of IF Tric Makes NO Sense THEN Tric = TOWN. So this was my now knowing that I both needed to get the Town NOT to vote Tric AND give the Town more time to both not vote Tric AND vote somebody else. I started my first step on the grand apology tour that I'm going to be on for the entire game.
I think, overall, this post was a best as it could be considering how badly I had fucked up.
Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
At this point, I completed the plan of Voting Blue in such a way as to avoid scaring Blue into not posting. I should point out that I was not purely trying to prove Blue was scum. I was reasonally sure Blue was scum, but in the slim hope that Blue was not scum, I wanted to get that evidence as well. prefuzek gave me the PERFECT excuse to vote Blue for the strategy, so I used it.
My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Strategy for this post was to try and get people NOT to vote Tric, and get some scumhunting going by suggesting that people investigate those voting Tric. To me, voting Tric at this juncture was a tactic that Scum would try. Get the town to lynch the lunatic instead of one of them. I did not have the time to follow up on this myself.
Problem: I should stop telling other people to do things. That really does piss everyone off. Either do the work, or shut up. Maybe point out when others are clearly ducking their scumhunting duties if that shows them to be scum.
Also a rushed attempt to further explain my mistake. Just an FYI, I do work for a living. I have plans, schedules, things to do. I'm sure everyone else does as well. I was checking on the way out the door. I guess checking the thread when I really don't have time to really play is a mistake as well. Either work or don't work, there is no try.
wtf are you doing?Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
Imitating you? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
I wanted Web to start investigating Blue, but not in a way that would tip Blue off that they were being investigated. I'm not Web, so I can't say if it worked. I intentionally picked 5 winks so it would look silly. 3 would look serious.
My rational for shortening was that the bandwagon seemed to be forming on Tric, people were sure it was Tric, so why not move on to Day 2 when we've got actual information. Impatience probably.
But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.
I'm heading out for a bit, but I'd suggest starting to hunt those who keep voting Tric. They should have good reasons, including my misreading of Tric.
Should I repeat this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over?
Sure, bring it up again on Day 2, but new questions please?
Now, why vote Blue?BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?
I'm not scum.
Just because Vector isn't in the game doesn't change whether or not I'm scum or not as well - so, why did you ask me this?BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?I think so?
While it does have a rather anti-town vibe, I think it could be used to great advantage - we only have one lynch per day, after all. So a town!Thief could be an additional pressure against known mafia players - or be used to check players who are lying about inventories or not.
I wouldn't lynch a Thief just for picking them. It would make me more suspicious of them, sure, but it's not a pure mafia!tell for me.BluarianKnight: Why aren't you posting? I need you to post to determine whether you are Town or Mafia. Don't make me vote you just to get your attention...I was busy, and this took a while to start. I'll get into the hang of things tomorrow.
Blue: "I'm not scum, please oh please don't lynch me" AKA The Scum Theme Song
Also, no scum hunting.
I was paying coy, because I wanted to see if Blue was busy Townie or lurking Scum. Since Blue is now engaged in the thread, I don't have to play coy any longer.
Time will tell whether the current scumhunting by Blue is smokescreen or legit. Pretty quick to jump on bandwagons and only offend those directly confronting them...
Two parts that should have been seperated.
Part 1: I was getting fustrated at the reality that I was going to be explaining the exact same thing 1000 times during the game. That sounds like work, not fun. My aggrevation made me look extremely scummy. EXTREME CON
Part 2: Blue had finally posted! Joy at finding scum. I make my case for why Blue is scum. I thought I still had some Town Cred, so this all that I would need. I was hoping for blue to post a bit more, but I was basically convinced Blue was scum. Draw town's attention to blue, and maybe get Blue to post further.
Problem: I jumped the gun. Oh boy did I jump the gun. I should have 1) realized my Town cred was in the toilet and really worked on it 2) Poked and Proded Blue, or "engage" as I call it, rather than jump to the stage of trying to convince everyone else that Blue is scum. Too dismissive and slandering on blue.
@Web: I'll vote who I think is scum, and if you gotta vote me, then I'm not afraid to die. I will however start looking for other suspects. I comment you for trying to pocket two players who are voting each other. Interested to see how that turns out.
Strategy: Build up Town cred by proving that I was not afraid to be lynched, as being lynched does not mean a loss for me. Call out Web on trying to pocket both myself and Blue, while seeing if this might just cause Web to do something that could be used against them if scum. Trying to pocket two opposing player actually seems pretty scummy, as it seems like something a mafia player would do to protect one of their own, hence the comment.
I'm going to call this a pro, as it should eventually help Town determine whether or not Web is Town or mafia. I think it is going to help my analysis long-term.
Additionally, I think, had I changed my vote as Web has said, that would be ultra-scummy.
Even though Web gave me this homework assignment, I still think I made the right call in not changing my vote.
However, "I will however start looking for other suspects." I had in fact not overly scrutinized other players, as you see above. So this was sort of my indicating that I was willing to at least do that. Probably made me look scummy, since I was apparently trying to placate rather than hunt. I think I should have omitted this line.
@Web: I'll vote who I think is scum, and if you gotta vote me, then I'm not afraid to die. I will however start looking for other suspects. I comment you for trying to pocket two players who are voting each other. Interested to see how that turns out.EuchreJack.
Town players can suspect each other all day long. It doesn't make them not Town. Heck, I'm voting you, and I don't think you're scum. But, the problem here is that you're actively making the game harder by doing shenanigans.
I know it's hard to understand why my shenanigans are different. But, if you'd please, list out what my shenanigans were this game and how they contributed to the current gamestate, and then do the same for yours. I want you to list how useful they've been, and the pros and cons of said actions were.
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.So is Jack confirmed town now? Pretty sure their partner would be yelling at them in scum chat at this point.I mean, very likely. But, I need Jack to understand that their actions have to have purpose or else it diverts the town's resources to scrutinizing your actions. The only two people that wouldn't be yelling at them are you and I.
Honestly, I'm not experienced enough to see your shenanigans and analyze them, so I can't promise that I will be able to do that. However, I am in the process of reviewing all of my actions so far and posting analysis. This post is to say that I am working on it. It will take some time. My apologies for the inconvenience.
I was just handed a huge assignment. I figure, I need the town cred. If somebody actually reads this and starts to see a case against Blue, all the better.
Analyzing a suspected mafia player to see how they might be helping town? Hm, not sure that is a great thing to do for town. It is a huge assignment, so I might do something like this for Web. Seriously don't want to, both because how can I analyze strategies that I don't know. But I need the practice in scumhunting, this should make me better, and I'm sure others will "correct my homework". I don't want to promise anything I won't do, but am considering. I also realize this is a lot of work, and need people to know that it will take a while.
As I continue my commentary of all my actions, I just want to remind everyone that I requested to UNSHORTEN immediately after I made the correct, official request to SHORTEN. Now I'll shut up and get back to work.
At this point, I was working on this document, and needed to make an "Official" position on it. I also realize that at mafia is going to muddy the waters on this, to make me look worse and deflect from their own evil deeds. One clear post, seperate and distinct from everything else. Should help me scumhunt, as those who want to pretend something else happened may be trying to hide themselves. Or just be overeager and confused Town, so I had best not lose my patience.
My apologies for not doing this exactly as Web wanted. Maybe this will be a basis for my own further analysis.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 05:01:24 pm
I have a Scroll of Curse Armor. It does not kill anything, but makes it easier for stuff to die. On its own, I consider it a low use item, so I am thinking of using my 33% chance of getting another item and putting it into the pool as a night action. If anyone else has suggestions, please let me know. My plan may change depending on what I get from the item pool, as I chose NOT to go on an Adventure and instead get something from the item pool, as that gives a slightly higher chance of an Uncommon item or better. With my class ability, I can dump any uncommon or better and get a guaranteed new item that might be more useful in my given situation. Merchant dumping Uncommon or better have 33% chance of getting same tier, otherwise one tier lower.
Further strategic discussion: Some items, as I indicated previously, have use purely for Mafia. I would suggest that Town players should keep those items, because putting them in the pool means Mafia can get them. Keeping them means, well, keeping them out of Mafia hands. I had a rather complicated idea of one player accumulating all the Pure Mafia Benefit items and another player using a scroll of fireball or whatever and destroying them, but I doubt it would work. But please contribute ideas if you think we can achieve some way of getting those items out of circulation!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 28, 2021, 05:10:44 pm
- What the hell is Euchre doing shortening or unshortening? I like short snappy days too but this is incomprehensible. My theory: he's a jester. Last game showed there could be 3rd parties not mentioned in the OP. Could be same here. Someone got a better theory?He's new. Ish.
- Not sure why Fallacy doesn't think my reads were "quickfire". I didn't agonise over each one, I just made a snap judgement on what I'd seen in the thread so far. Definitely a nonsense push here.No, I don't think those were snap judgements. You might say that they are, but there's too much effort put into some of them, in a lopsided manner.
- can I get a vote count? I might be in the lead which is Not Good.Asserting your own towniness.
Also, Fallacy is saying Jim's list is unbiased... that seems a really weird thing to town read someone for. Reading alignment in posts is showing a bias in favour of some players and against others. Being indifferent isn't a town tell!Okay. To elaborate, what I meant was 'made without an existing bias present'. Scum players are aware of who their partners are and who their partners aren't. This creates bias. Jim's list appears to lack any kind of different awareness. Even if he reads people differently, he treats everyone the same way.
You're wasting time defending yourself instead of just acknowledging it and trying to find someone you think is scummy. Yeah, 97% sure you're my vote for Day 1, unless you do something more useful.
holy wall of text batmanLike I said, genuine effort put forwards. Town read.
Alright, since I don't want to go through that againPerfectly fair.
I'll stick to strategy discussion and over-viewing what I plan on doing as a Merchant with my items.Mind at least sharing who you think is towniest and who you think is scummiest? I'd appreciate it.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 05:21:26 pm
Unvote.
Back to prefuzek.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 05:31:43 pm
I'll stick to strategy discussion and over-viewing what I plan on doing as a Merchant with my items.Mind at least sharing who you think is towniest and who you think is scummiest? I'd appreciate it.
Absolutely, although my analysis is far from complete. But I'm glad to help!
For those who do not know, the above strike out is a JOKE. And you'll see why in a sec...
Absolute Town:
EuchreJack
Jim
Awaiting Jim's confirmation, but probably Town:
TricMagic
Sadistic townie:
Webadict - I generally see Web trying to help me and Town by the request for analysis. Not completely confirmed, but a probable
In need of further analysis:
ToonyMan - Null
FallacyOfUrist - 51% Townie
NQT - 55% Townie
prefuzek - Null
Confirmed Scum, unless actual evidence shows otherwise:
Blue
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 05:34:49 pm
Blue: "I'm not scum, please oh please don't lynch me" AKA The Scum Theme Song
Also, no scum hunting.
I was paying coy, because I wanted to see if Blue was busy Townie or lurking Scum. Since Blue is now engaged in the thread, I don't have to play coy any longer.
Time will tell whether the current scumhunting by Blue is smokescreen or legit. Pretty quick to jump on bandwagons and only offend those directly confronting them...
Okay - let's lay this out then.
If someone asked you if you were scum, you'd say 'oh, I'm 100% scum'?
It's a yes or no question - I'm not scum, so I said no - so jumping on me for saying no is a fucking stretch.
Also - you're complaining that I'm not scumhunting, while you're avoiding my question.Euchrejack - Why in such a rush to end D1?
Here it is, again - please answer.
@Blue: Since I've given a very long and detailed analysis of everything that I've done, would you mind giving some analysis of your actions so far?
How are you helping town?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 05:42:56 pm
Again, I am asking for the strategy, rather than pressuring you to answer before the merits of the strategy are discussed.
Also, IF YOU CAN PREVENT WEB'S DEATH, YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DO THAT. Since multi-kills are possible, multi-preventions of death are a GOOD thing. And buff the crap out of Web.
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 05:53:59 pm
web
The same thing it is every Day: Try toOK but you're not doing that. You're playing entitled.take over the worldfind the scum.
Bluarian
prefuzek - I haven't seen you around before, have you played this format before?As in Roguelike? No. I've played forum mafia here a long time ago though, and I've been lurking on and off ever since.
Why have you done nothing today but echo other peoples points and push on a misplay by an obvious town player?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 06:02:45 pm
webThe same thing it is every Day: Try toOK but you're not doing that. You're playing entitled.take over the worldfind the scum.
Web always plays entitled. Whether scum or town, Web plays like he's our King. Not god, heaven knows god doesn't interfere like Web does.
While I was toiling to build that loving wall, the words "I'm not your bitch, Web" rang out over and over in my head.
...I guess you'll have to just get used it like the rest of us.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 06:05:39 pm
I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.
For those following along at home, I picked Paladin when I played this game last: as a serial killer it was a no-brainer. I'm undecided whether it's a scummy pick per se. Having an inspect scroll as town is a potential game changer. Bit less neat if you get NK'd N1 for claiming paladin (but I'm sure Web knows what he's doing, I can think of at least three possibilities: less said the better).
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?
At this point, I read this as "I've got something that can really help Town!". Which frankly is not something we can risk losing, since whatever great benefit NQT has will likely be replicated by Town's accumulation of items later on, but for Night 1 we can use all the benefits we can get.
...of course, its also what I would expect mafia Paladin to do. That is certainly a risk, but overall the risk of Town essentially lynching a power roll is higher than the risk of mafia NQT living till day 2.
Does anyone have something to contradict this?
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 06:14:25 pm
Town:
EuchreJack
FallacyofUrist
Null (not enough content):
ToonyMan
Jim Groovester
Null (can't decide):
Tricmagic
NQT
Scum:
Bluarianknight
webadict
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 06:17:26 pm
Note: From here on out, this is cut & paste from Excel, so it will look a bit more mechanical. Sorry folks
EuchreJack Anyone who does not think they're the most absolute Town is CRAZY
Jim Groovester Commander Jim with his mighty dunce cap. If you read Jim's posting in this way, he's town
TricMagic Awaiting Confirmation from Jim, but giving me enough headaches to say Town
webadict Mr. Myagi to my skinny white ass, whooping me hard into shape
notquitethere We can't kill him yet even if we wanted to, because "might" be helpful
prefuzek Finally, someone figures out Blue is scum. But could be starting the bus as mafia
FallacyofUrist Kindness does not mean townie, but not seeing any red flags of scummy. REALLY needs additional analysis
ToonyMan Find any good scum yet, ToonyMan? No? Then here you are
BluarianKnight Scum Number 1 -> Purely reactive, trying to stay alive rather than hunt
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 06:19:51 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 06:20:41 pm
I am the bone of my words
Letters are my body, and sentences are my blood
Unknown to conciseness, nor known to tl;dr
Withstood pain to create many paragraphs and yet
These hands will never hold anything
So, as I pray, Unlimited Word Works
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 28, 2021, 06:22:43 pm
EuchreJack's wall makes me certain they're town.
Bluarianprefuzek - I haven't seen you around before, have you played this format before?As in Roguelike? No. I've played forum mafia here a long time ago though, and I've been lurking on and off ever since.
Why have you done nothing today but echo other peoples points and push on a misplay by an obvious town player?
Because Euchre was pushing without reason - he explained himself, and I'm willing to Unvote.
If you've checked any of my previous games, I'm usually quiet at the start - also, was a bit busy. I'll make a post tonight about my thoughts of the whole situation.
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 06:28:08 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 06:30:18 pm
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 06:35:42 pm
@Webadict: Back to strategy - You are the Paladin. I'm mostly convinced of this. You have the ability to inspect. This makes you a target for the Mafia to nightkill. We do not know, and should not know, if anyone has the ability to prevent your death. Should you declare whom you will be inspecting, so that in the event that you die, we will get some info from your death?Oh no, I'm actually well aware of the fact that I'm going to die tonight. That's never been the issue. I plan to investigate perfuzek. Simple as that. I'll die, but it forces the scumteam to kill me because it's likely that perfuzek did NOT choose Paladin.
Again, I am asking for the strategy, rather than pressuring you to answer before the merits of the strategy are discussed.
Also, IF YOU CAN PREVENT WEB'S DEATH, YOU SHOULD ABSOLUTELY DO THAT. Since multi-kills are possible, multi-preventions of death are a GOOD thing. And buff the crap out of Web.
Also, do you really think it's BluarianKnight? I'm just not getting that feeling this game. True, I tend to think they're a good scum player, but they're typically... Well, I dunno. They usually feel different as scum. Sure, I think it's possible for them to be scum, but... I dunno. Intuition.
webThen vote me. I don't know why you're voting BluarianKnight and claiming their only echoing other player's points but you seem to be trying to pocket yourself in EuchreJack's wake and dogpiling on BluarianKnight for "attacking an obvious Town player," but that's a really bad argument, especially since I literally voted EuchreJack and explicitly stated that I didn't think they were scum. So, you'd have double the reason to vote me instead, yes?The same thing it is every Day: Try toOK but you're not doing that. You're playing entitled.take over the worldfind the scum.
However, my feeling is that you're trying to avoid voting me in an effort to not draw attention to yourself, which explains voting for BluarianKnight (bandwagon vote), pocketing, and buddying up to EuchreJack. You're also avoiding OMGUSing me, but I think that's because you're a little scared of going up against me because I effectively nailed you as scum on your first post and that's an entirely terrifying prospect to deal with.
Honestly, I'd suggest convincing me that I'm tunneling on you because your playstyle is unknown and therefore I'm unaware of your meta tells, but I don't think that covers for the fact that your arguments for voting BK feel fake and still require using a defense that isn't a feasible excuse since EuchreJack didn't effectively prove themselves Town until after the big post, unless you're saying another post effectively proved EuchreJack to be Town, but I don't feel like giving you the benefit of the doubt in that particular case.
PPE: LMAO!
Scum:
Bluarianknight
webadict
Blue rolls scum an uncanny amount.True, but that's why I'm pretty sure it's not them this time.
Post by: TricMagic on May 28, 2021, 06:37:43 pm
Regarding NQT: They have claimed some sort of Pro-Town Power role, so I'd strongly advise against lynching. Limited analysis below.I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?
At this point, I read this as "I've got something that can really help Town!". Which frankly is not something we can risk losing, since whatever great benefit NQT has will likely be replicated by Town's accumulation of items later on, but for Night 1 we can use all the benefits we can get.
...of course, its also what I would expect mafia Paladin to do. That is certainly a risk, but overall the risk of Town essentially lynching a power roll is higher than the risk of mafia NQT living till day 2.
Does anyone have something to contradict this?
Right. I'm pretty sure I heard something simuar from scumNQT before. But there is NO CLASS that loses so much for town via claiming early this game. If a thief, they die, if a Transmuter. Well, Transmuter wants to stay alive, but it's not worth denying town info. And Scum Transmuter also benefits from not being lynched. Immensely.
As a Bard, and Random at that, my stuff is on average higher quality than anyone else day 1. The point being, claiming something good for day three means they will be killed before then. Unless they are scum, hence both of those classes benefitting from more time to work.
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 06:42:37 pm
Null (can't decide):Just in case prefuzek turns out to be scum, I'd look at this line right here and see the partner range.
Tricmagic
I don't believe prefuzek would put their partner in either of the extreme ranges, and I'd definitely see them putting them in the null range.
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 06:47:43 pm
Then vote me. I don't know why you're voting BluarianKnight and claiming their only echoing other player's points but you seem to be trying to pocket yourself in EuchreJack's wake and dogpiling on BluarianKnight for "attacking an obvious Town player," but that's a really bad argument, especially since I literally voted EuchreJack and explicitly stated that I didn't think they were scum. So, you'd have double the reason to vote me instead, yes?The only reason I'm not voting you is because you claimed Paladin. I think it's better to have the chance to get the inspect off in the case that you're town.
However, my feeling is that you're trying to avoid voting me in an effort to not draw attention to yourself, which explains voting for BluarianKnight (bandwagon vote), pocketing, and buddying up to EuchreJack. You're also avoiding OMGUSing me, but I think that's because you're a little scared of going up against me because I effectively nailed you as scum on your first post and that's an entirely terrifying prospect to deal with.
Quote
Honestly, I'd suggest convincing me that I'm tunneling on you because your playstyle is unknown and therefore I'm unaware of your meta tells,Nah I don't think I need to convince you of that. Why else would you be voting me with no justification?
Quote
but I don't think that covers for the fact that your arguments for voting BK feel fake and still require using a defense that isn't a feasible excuse since EuchreJack didn't effectively prove themselves Town until after the big post, unless you're saying another post effectively proved EuchreJack to be Town, but I don't feel like giving you the benefit of the doubt in that particular case.Funny that you accuse me of arguing from a faulty timeline in the same sentence where you justify your vote after the fact. And I do think there was plenty of evidence for EuchreJack's towniness pre-wall - I even said as much way back here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283142#msg8283142)
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 07:11:05 pm
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 28, 2021, 07:22:41 pm
What?What?What?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 28, 2021, 07:23:09 pm
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 07:31:05 pm
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
BluarianKnight:
Mind explaining to me what you find so suspicious about this? And why you didn't follow up on it?Right now it's NQT, Jack, and I'd say you, prefuzek. Though the last is more not knowing you to base reads off of, it just feels like a weird playstyle you're using.*ALARMS BLARING*
WEEE WOOO WEEE WOO
Yeah, agreed - the fuck?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 07:31:50 pm
Yes, I am offloading the work of reading Tric's post to you. Sorry. But its not like I haven't done any work today...
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 07:41:57 pm
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: Webadict would totally claim to inspect you and claim they got Mafia regardless of what they actually get, then 2 hours later explain that they fully intended to give the true results.
I want you to realize that he is crazy enough to actually do that.
He also tests people. Guess what? You failed!
Post by: prefuzek on May 28, 2021, 07:53:18 pm
I'm guessing web's still just trying to see how flappable I am. I will not be flapped.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 08:00:47 pm
OK? I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that information. I have to assume that if webadict is town, they're going to play in a pro-town way.
I'm guessing web's still just trying to see how flappable I am. I will not be flapped.
Web's not 100% town even to me, his disciple. You should be even more suspicious of him. Now, I wouldn't want to be engaged in epic word battle with Web, so I don't envy you there, but its your job to ascertain Web's alignment. You're still not sure, and yet you're moving on to convict Blue without Blue getting a chance to defend themselves. Sure, I think Blue is Scum, but even I'm willing to wait a bit for a response.
Now, why am I telling you this, instead of Web? Because if Web confronts you, you continue to blow him off. So you need another player to tell you to get back into that fight. I'm doing that.
My strategy: Get prefuzek and Web to debate each other, revealing more info about both of their alignments.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 28, 2021, 08:01:48 pm
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 10:07:08 pm
Does this not imply that you believe that I am Town?prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 28, 2021, 10:32:19 pm
EuchreJack - Null to Scumlean - To me at least, pushing votes willy-nilly is a starting scum!tell - you know who your allies are, so you don't care who you vote, as long as it's someone.. Their wall of text bumped them from scum to null though, as I see a bit of myself in MMMM in his desperation - I was an idiot my first time too, so null for now, slight scumlean.
Jim Groovester - Townlean, reads town!Jim for me, but would like to see more.
TricMagic - Scum. Rational Tric is Scum!Tric, it's usually a meme but I think it, alongside a few mistakes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283177#msg8283177) is enough to push him as a lynch.
webadict - Webadict being a dastardly rascal as usual, his usual bullshit means I'm willing to give him N1 to see what he does. Null.
notquitethere - Null-town lean for now? Not sure.
prefuzek - Scum - He's been playing off Euchrejack for a while, I'd believe a Tric/Prefuzek scumteam. As well, he's been hyper-focusing on some players, and calling some folks out while ignoring other players entirely.
FallacyofUrist - Townlean - I don't a scum player would do what he did - his NQT suspicions are a bit pointed but fair, and I think he's safe for now. Needs revisiting.
ToonyMan - Scumlean - He's been quiet, and hasn't been pushing. Unusually quiet - FoS atm.
Mind explaining to me what you find so suspicious about this? And why you didn't follow up on it?
Maybe because I take time to write things. Besides, I've been called out for 'replying little', so I decided I'd try to do a read instead.
As for suspicious? Tric pointed out three mafia - it's a two mafia game. Could've been a slip, but also could've been a slight clue to him being Mafia - directing blame elsewhere. Right now, I think it's only a tiny clue - by itself worthless, but I also kinda wanted to jump in on the shenanigans.
So, let's lay out my evidence for Tric - it's day one, but it's a fairly simple layout.
Tric usually isn't this good.
It's a cop out, but it's a good starting point - Tric usually jumps, or digs his heels in, but he seems fairly level-headed this time around (leading me to ask him if he was changing his town meta. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283181#msg8283181), he's given claims that he's a bard yet avoids questions/proving it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283001#msg8283001), and otherwise just..
He's really good - scarily good. I think he might have somebody giving him a helping hand. Leaning on that, there's two possibilities - you, who's asked Tric loaded questions implying his votes are mafia, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283170#msg8283170) and going from suspecting EuchreJack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283021#msg8283021) to saying he's town (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283142#msg8283142) and buddying up with him, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283305#msg8283305) even putting him as town on your read list. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283312#msg8283312)
As soon as Tric got heat, you jumped straight onto me and Web - which I really still don't get the connection? Past maybe Web telling Euchre voting me was stupid, and his methods were just harming town - (his wall post has convinced me Euchre is more being buddied then being scum, which is why I think you're the second.)
Maybe my read's wrong then entirely - if you both are town, I'd have to gander a guess to Toony and.. maybe someone else. I'm not sure yet.
Here's my questions;
Prefuzek - What brings me and Web as the most likely suspects as scum?
Toony - Is something keeping you from posting, or are you simply keeping quiet?}
Post by: webadict on May 28, 2021, 11:07:25 pm
ToonyMan is astoundingly quiet, I agree. That means they're planning things. Mmmm, probs not worth thinking about too hard.
Mmmm... I dislike that you've got the same reads as I do, except your getting in a big fight with EJ, which is super silly goose, but I think it's probably TricMagic and prefuzek.
OK? I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that information. I have to assume that if webadict is town, they're going to play in a pro-town way.Well, it's mostly that I'm convinced I'm right that you're scum, and if my results don't match that conviction, I will assume that I am still right and keep pushing it. That's why you need to convince me that I'm tunnelling you if you're Town. If you think I'm scum, then I get launched the day after I do such a stupid move. Therefore, my alignment for today should matter to you, because I am going to do that move.
I'm guessing web's still just trying to see how flappable I am. I will not be flapped.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 28, 2021, 11:35:19 pm
Blu, are you really scumleaning Euchre? Man, that's harsh. That feels retaliatory. If you seriously think EuchreJack is scum, you're thinking about it completely wrong. Jack isn't a viable launch candidate Today anyway.
I'm putting him on the block - I think I did put him too harshly, should've rewrote it - I think he's scumlean - I don't think he's scum too hard, as I've other candidates, but.. I dunno, something rubs me off the wrong way to give him a clean cut.
He's FoS at worst - not someone I'm gonna bark up the tree.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 28, 2021, 11:58:52 pm
I've been invested in a currently ongoing mafia game so I've been pretty low energy here. I guess the best way to describe it is that I'm on Book 5 of a super engrossing story and the next day I start a new series instead of Book 6. I like my Tric vote still and I have a queued question for NQT. I can give general reads for people sometime tomorrow.
Speaking of tomorrow it's my birthday and I plan on being away for most of the day.
@Tric:
Why did you pick Random?
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 12:30:47 am
First, town webadict is probably not actually going to follow through on his gambit, since if we don't lynch scum today that would lose town the game given two scum (three mislynches = town loss). web recognizes this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283380#msg8283380) Now, compare that to the advice he's giving to EuchreJack this game:
Town players can suspect each other all day long. It doesn't make them not Town. Heck, I'm voting you, and I don't think you're scum. But, the problem here is that you're actively making the game harder by doing shenanigans.
I know it's hard to understand why my shenanigans are different. But, if you'd please, list out what my shenanigans were this game and how they contributed to the current gamestate, and then do the same for yours. I want you to list how useful they've been, and the pros and cons of said actions were.
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.
So, a town webadict must be doing this to get a better read on me based on my reaction. This is consistent with his play so far; he's tried three different strategies recently to get an idea of how I play:
1. A naked vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283288#msg8283288)
2. An agressive case (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283322#msg8283322)
3. A stupid threat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283327#msg8283327)
This is all fine. The issue is, he's planning on inspecting me tonight. Why bother? Why only pressure the person you claim you're going to inspect?
Also, the case on me is weak. I explained why I wasn't voting him, the argument that I'm trying to avoid attention makes no sense since I was the one who came out swinging on him, and he accuses me of buddying Jack while being perfectly fine with Toony doing it[./url]
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283200#msg8283200)
BluarianKnight:
Case on web is above. You I have a less solid case on, but it seems to me like you're playing pretty safe and you haven't really done any work towards figuring things out. For example, lots of hedging here:
Quote
Maybe my read's wrong then entirely - if you both are town, I'd have to gander a guess to Toony and.. maybe someone else. I'm not sure yet.
Not knowing Tric's meta, I can't say for sure how good your case is on them, but arguing that they're playing too well seems wrong.
Quote
Right now, I think it's only a tiny clue - by itself worthless, but I also kinda wanted to jump in on the shenanigans.How you describe it here doesn't match your reaction in the moment very well.
Why did you assume that my scumread on you and my scumread on webadict were linked?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 29, 2021, 03:50:56 am
@Jim: Quick update - You're confirmed Town, and I'm waiting for you to determine whether Tric is Town or Scum. He's hurting my head.
Yes, I am offloading the work of reading Tric's post to you. Sorry. But its not like I haven't done any work today...
Why do you need me to decide your opinion about TricMagic? Can't you form an opinion on your own?
How did I become a confirmed town?
Aren't you giving away too much autonomy over how you think?
I'm really bothered by this sheeping but it's so blatant and unashamed and unafraid it could only be done by somebody who both didn't know what they were doing and was town.
Fuck if you were actually scum I'd expect you to ask the town who the scum team should night kill.
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2021, 08:19:09 am
Mmmm...Blu, are you really scumleaning Euchre? Man, that's harsh. That feels retaliatory. If you seriously think EuchreJack is scum, you're thinking about it completely wrong. Jack isn't a viable launch candidate Today anyway.
I'm putting him on the block - I think I did put him too harshly, should've rewrote it - I think he's scumlean - I don't think he's scum too hard, as I've other candidates, but.. I dunno, something rubs me off the wrong way to give him a clean cut.
He's FoS at worst - not someone I'm gonna bark up the tree.
You know what, your intuition tends to be pretty good. I think if I were a Priest, I'd use my protect on BluarianKnight. Probably could make a case for EJ, and doesn't seem hostile about it.
TricMagic.
Like I said initially, there's no way I'm getting a prefuzek elim Today. But that's okay because we'll be able to vote them out solely based on my word Tomorrow.
I actually do think ToonyMan is probably town now, and I'm willing to null out EJ literally based entirely on BK's word. I think my rainbow becomes
TricMagic
prefuzek
EuchreJack
notquitethere
Jim Groovester
ToonyMan
BluarianKnight
... Who's the 9th player?!
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2021, 08:19:51 am
Eh, put 'em below EJ for being null.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 08:40:08 am
I got back late from hanging out with my brother so instead of completing my post I'm going to go to bed.@Jim: Quick update - You're confirmed Town, and I'm waiting for you to determine whether Tric is Town or Scum. He's hurting my head.
Yes, I am offloading the work of reading Tric's post to you. Sorry. But its not like I haven't done any work today...
Why do you need me to decide your opinion about TricMagic? Can't you form an opinion on your own?
How did I become a confirmed town?
Aren't you giving away too much autonomy over how you think?
I'm really bothered by this sheeping but it's so blatant and unashamed and unafraid it could only be done by somebody who both didn't know what they were doing and was town.
Fuck if you were actually scum I'd expect you to ask the town who the scum team should night kill.
Strategy: I do not in fact have enough knowledge of Tric's meta to make the clear Town-Scum decision that is so blatantly obvious to everyone else. I must therefore rely upon another player to determine this for me. Jim is the only person that I have read as Pure Town, and therefore is the only one I trust to make this determination. Anyone else could be mafia that would potentially lie to me.
As for Jim being confirmed town, I trust in my ability to read Jim as Town. Scum Jim is smart enough to either confirm Tric as Town if Tric is Town to build town cred, or bus Tric as Scum to build Town cred if Tric is Scum. Scum Jim is a survivor. The refusal to answer, which for other players might be a hint they might be scum trying to save their scumbuddy, is actually a Town tell for Jim.
Strategy Part 2: Keeping vote on Blue because there are 2 votes on Blue, and I'd like to see who puts the 3rd vote on Blue. A relatively arcane and inaccurate theory is that the 3rd voter is usually Scum. That is crazy right? But look at how in the past the voting has stalled at 2 votes. I really need to see where the voting is now in order to determine the accuracy of the prior statement.
Strategy Part 3: Prefuzek is still possible scum, and has not been asked the obvious question. Recall, prior strategy is to keep Web and Prefuzek engaged in order to obtain information. Additional strategy is to test Prefuzek's commitment to being Town rather that commitment to "looking Town". I should probably ask it now. Since Web and Prefuzek could be scum choreographing their entire argument in the scum chat, and Web HASN'T asked this question, Web needs to answer the question of why not asking this. Now it is time to ask prefuzek the question:
@prefuzek: Why are you still voting Blue if you have a "less solid case"? Please post your reads immediately. Who is more likely scum, Web or Blue?
@Web: Why are you not calling out Prefuzek for continuing to vote Blue, when it seems they think you are the more likely scum? I'm sure you could be making this argument better than I am!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 08:45:57 am
Crane Kick! Crane Kick! Crane Kick! I'm going be Crane Kicking you now! You have been Crane Kicked!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 09:01:58 am
Note: From here on out, this is cut & paste from Excel, so it will look a bit more mechanical. Sorry folks
From Most Town to Most Scum
EuchreJack Anyone who does not think they're the most absolute Town is CRAZY
Jim Groovester Commander Jim with his mighty dunce cap. If you read Jim's posting in this way, he's town
webadict Mr. Myagi to my skinny white ass, whooping me hard into shape. Big bulleye with the Paladin claim too.
BluarianKnight Finally hunting Scum. Meta is that Blue does in fact take time to start up, irregardless of alignment Promote to Null
notquitethere We can't kill him yet even if we wanted to, because "might" be helpful
FallacyofUrist Kindness does not mean townie, but not seeing any red flags of scummy. REALLY needs additional analysis
ToonyMan Find any good scum yet, ToonyMan? No? Then here you are. I do in fact believe ToonyMan's claim of exhaustion. At least post reads!
TricMagic Awaiting Confirmation from Jim, but Blue thinks is Scum. Blue knows Scum Tric, so if Blue is Town, Tric is scum
prefuzek Looks very much like pushing Blue to look Town rather than being Town
Strategy: Now that I've indicated that Blue is Null, I should not risk a vote where Blue gets lynched. This is a scummy thing to do. My rather lackluster strategy of looking for the 3rd vote must give way to both preserving my own Town cred and keeping a Null-Town player from getting lynched.
UNVOTE
I need to review the voting logs before casting a vote. My apologies if this looks like I'm trying to avoid being the 3rd vote, in fact I'd be happy to be the 3rd vote on prefuzek.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 09:02:51 am
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 09:37:20 am
@prefuzek: Why are you still voting Blue if you have a "less solid case"? Please post your reads immediately. Who is more likely scum, Web or Blue?
@Web: Why are you not calling out Prefuzek for continuing to vote Blue, when it seems they think you are the more likely scum? I'm sure you could be making this argument better than I am!
I've explained this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283325#msg8283325) My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 10:02:24 am
Quote
He's been playing off Euchrejack for a while, I'd believe a Tric/Prefuzek scumteam. As well, he's been hyper-focusing on some players, and calling some folks out while ignoring other players entirely.
when webadict has been doing both those things just as much as I have. Also, BK has never addressed a question to web. Their first real interaction is this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283380#msg8283380), which I could easily interpret as the more experienced scum trying to get some in-thread interaction with their partner.
Webadict right now is using a "Refuge in Webadictiness" strategy. Imagine a new player coming in, doing the things web's done, and not getting lynched D1.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 10:11:46 am
Webadict right now is using a "Refuge in Webadictiness" strategy. Imagine a new player coming in, doing the things web's done, and not getting lynched D1.
I feel like I'd better say something here. Good point, please keep digging. Explain more please.
Post by: Toaster on May 29, 2021, 10:22:46 am
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: TricMagic, FallacyofUrist
TricMagic: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, webadict
prefuzek:
BluarianKnight: prefuzek
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan: notquitethere
Not Voting: BluarianKnight, EuchreJack
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 10 PM EST.
Vote count, if possible to automate. Otherwise I'll just figure it out myself. Would help greatly to have an official one at this point.
Web has Mamobo, which I'm okay if he wants to run here. Otherwise I do them by hand periodically or when requested. I'm more likely to see a bolded request.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 10:51:41 am
@Tric:
Why did you pick Random?
Looking though the list of classes I asked myself what would be good for town? Mage lets scrolls be used an extra time, but that was chance-based, and I'd need a scroll in the first place. Paladin would let me inspect, but I discarded that immediately since the pregame post of everyone picking paladins made no sense, and it would put suspicion on me as a godfather type. Transmuter is a good long-term role, but it's not one that is viable since you could get killed or lynched. Thief for me was the option I was looking at, but the issue became 'what if I stole a town player's item.' Pretty high chance of that. Then I looked at bard, but figgured the random option would make most sense. It could either be random, or be picked for balancing reasons. If the second occurred, that info would be quite useful,
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 29, 2021, 11:07:35 am
Why did you assume that my scumread on you and my scumread on webadict were linked?
I didn't. I wanted to know why him and I were your two top suspects - not that I suspected we were linked, that question was for Euchre, who was pushing that weirdly hard.
Honestly, the more you post, the more I suspect you're scum. Your suspicion on me seems to be built upon me thinking Tric is mafia - Why? Three people are already voting him, and he's the most likely to be voted out today.
Maybe you don't want that - actually, maybe that's the worst possibility for you.
You don't want your scum partner gone, do you?
You've been rather shady yourself - You've posted a read-list without any justification, (and have yet to justify), you've buddied to Euchre - complained that it's not fair because Toony did it to, and nobody called him out, so why am I being called out? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283397#msg8283397)
Good point - Why wasn't he called out? Why haven't you called him out?
Just because someone else does something stupid doesn't mean it's alright for you to.
Give me a proper read-list. It feels like you've picked two targets and you're ignoring everyone else, which is poor town-game this early on.
A BluarianKnight/webadict scumteam does make sense at this point. BK's been really pockety of web recently, and has read me as scum for thisQuoteHe's been playing off Euchrejack for a while, I'd believe a Tric/Prefuzek scumteam. As well, he's been hyper-focusing on some players, and calling some folks out while ignoring other players entirely.
when webadict has been doing both those things just as much as I have. Also, BK has never addressed a question to web. Their first real interaction is this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283380#msg8283380), which I could easily interpret as the more experienced scum trying to get some in-thread interaction with their partner.
Webadict right now is using a "Refuge in Webadictiness" strategy. Imagine a new player coming in, doing the things web's done, and not getting lynched D1.
I haven't asked questions to half of the player-list yet. Does that make me scum-buddies with all of them?
No, it's just that I'm poking down different trees at the moment.
Another point - you and Euchre are the only players so far pushing a scum!web this early. The newest players. The thing is, Web has done this shit in the past as town. It's hard to read him traditionally, and I've fallen victim to thinking he's scum when he's doing a bullshit town play. (Reference Election, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178313.0) where town!Web wins because I (a scum player uninformed) thought he was my scum ally.)
He's just.. different - and while I think Euchre is just new to the community, and is just struggling to adjust his reads to a weird playstyle, I think you're trying to push it as scum. If you want to prove to me that Web's scum - well, you need more then 'only scum would do this' as most of the other people playing right now, no, Web would totally do that as town.
First blue, thank you for the compliment. Given I have no one actually tutoring me. (Not that I actually need tutoring.)
No problem!
Anyhow, TricMagic - Who do you think are scum, currently?
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 11:10:46 am
That said, readlist time. And webadict, I am severely starting to doubt you are town. Weren't you going on about me being town just a day ago?
1. EuchreJack-? Not really enough info to decide one way or the other for me. Enough scummy play and just enough excuses for it that I can't tell.
2. notquitethere-Notquitehere. Also scumlean. ... Not much else to say, his posts seem like scum, and there are no charts. Guess he knows better since his charts are usually helpful as town, and not so much as scum.
3. TricMagic-The obvious scumpick. Bardy Bard. Also the one with two items and the Random boon on one of them. Naturally killing me via lynch before I can use them makes plenty of sense for scum. (But I'm scum right, why would they lynch me? Cause I'm not, WIFOM.)
4. prefuzek-Upped to townread. Mostly based off the previous and obvious of why good logical play is scum-tric. I'm not always crazy, just look at my first games back when I did do walls.
5. BluarianKnight-Minor scumlean: Reason why is his habit of staying quiet, and the recent push on me to secure a lynch. That said, it's more a suspison than a read.
6. webadict-webadict in audacity. Also leaning towards Scum. Paladin is a good choice to get an in with the town, and prevents investigations from working right on you. That said, you get to stay alive because you have the inspect scroll. You had best make use of it. (Saying the priest should protect anyone but you in thread is a bit silly though. Aren't you the one with the inspect result you need to give out day 2?)
7. FallacyofUrist-Fal is Fal. NulofNullness. On the bright side, you aren't setting off red flags in my head, so that definitely pushes you towards town-lean.
8. Jim Groovester. Town.\/
9. ToonyMan. Town. (You may think these weird, but they are gut reads. They just aren't setting off red flags, and setting off plenty of green ones. Toony being busy doesn't detract from the fact they haven't set off any red ones.)
Jim, Toony, and perfuzek are currently my townreads. Web and NQT are my scum reads. Naturally voting for web is out, so NQT is going to be lynched. Or me if they manage to continue this off of Jim and Toony's votes, plus webs.
Of note, Jack, NQT, and Web are are a bit scummy. So is Blue. There is the possibility of thirds party, so remember that as the reason why I had three reads.
Ninja. Answer above blue.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 11:13:23 am
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 11:21:54 am
This post convinced me that this is Scum Tric.
First blue, thank you for the compliment. Given I have no one actually tutoring me. (Not that I actually need tutoring.)@Tric:
Why did you pick Random?
Looking though the list of classes I asked myself what would be good for town? Mage lets scrolls be used an extra time, but that was chance-based, and I'd need a scroll in the first place. Paladin would let me inspect, but I discarded that immediately since the pregame post of everyone picking paladins made no sense, and it would put suspicion on me as a godfather type. Transmuter is a good long-term role, but it's not one that is viable since you could get killed or lynched. Thief for me was the option I was looking at, but the issue became 'what if I stole a town player's item.' Pretty high chance of that. Then I looked at bard, but figgured the random option would make most sense. It could either be random, or be picked for balancing reasons. If the second occurred, that info would be quite useful,and prevent other players from false-claiming bard.(This last bit is a thought I had in the game proper, not before it. Still counts as a good thing though.)
Why? My theory is that Tric picked random because they were lazy, and now they're trying to justify that choice like there was some actual forethought. Based upon that theory, the fact that Tric tried to make a reasonable argument, and was semi-sensible, means Scum Tric.
It also helps that if Tric flips Scum, they've given away their scum buddy. Now might be a time to stop opening stating my strategies.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 11:33:28 am
Just remember you guys asked, and I laid things out openly and Honestly.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 11:40:42 am
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 11:44:17 am
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 11:53:39 am
My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.
Town:webadict I've given my case on, BK I've given half a case and there's more below. You're easily town, and FoU had some good posts at the beginning of the day, and I really liked this one. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283183#msg8283183) NQT, Toony, and Jim still haven't posted enough for a proper read. Tric's recent posts have felt pretty towny, for example here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283486#msg8283486). I don't get the wagon on them.
EuchreJack
FallacyofUrist
Null (not enough content):
ToonyMan
Jim Groovester
Null (can't decide):
Tricmagic
NQT
Scum:
Bluarianknight
webadict
I don't think there's any point. Neither web nor I want to lynch the other today, and whatever happens with web's inspect and claim tonight is going to change the nature of the conversation, so I might as well wait until then. Plus, like BK has said, webadictiness is mostly a null tell for webadict.Webadict right now is using a "Refuge in Webadictiness" strategy. Imagine a new player coming in, doing the things web's done, and not getting lynched D1.I feel like I'd better say something here. Good point, please keep digging. Explain more please.
BluarianKnight: My suspicion of you is not because you think Tric is mafia. It's because you were doing nothing useful while posting just enough to not be lurking, and you justified behaviour by comparing it to games where you were scum. Now, you're hard defending webadict for no apparent reason giving that I'm not voting them, and calling me scum for reasons that make no sense. You say I've buddied to Euchre, but all I've done is say I read him as town a couple of times. I'm not calling Toony out on that because I don't think saying that people are town is scummy. I think you took the idea that I'm buddying Euchre from web - take a look at my posts and tell me where I've buddied. I've actually avoided responding to him quite a bit, since I don't want to fill up the thread with conversation with someone who I have a solid read on already.
Quote
Give me a proper read-list. It feels like you've picked two targets and you're ignoring everyone else, which is poor town-game this early on.
Quote
I haven't asked questions to half of the player-list yet.Huh.
Quote
Another point - you and Euchre are the only players so far pushing a scum!web this early. The newest players. The thing is, Web has done this shit in the past as town. It's hard to read him traditionally, and I've fallen victim to thinking he's scum when he's doing a bullshit town play. (Reference Election, where town!Web wins because I (a scum player uninformed) thought he was my scum ally.)Euchre has web as his second most towny player, so I'm not sure where you get this from. I know web plays idiosyncratically. But if you go back and read my case, it's not about his playstyle. It's about concrete decisions he's making that don't make any sense from a town perspective - the town perspective he's encouraged Jack to adopt in this same game.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 11:56:23 am
Please reference specific games if possible, so newbies like me can look them over.
Jack, are you a thief? Hence the item fishing?I'm a Merchant. But there are many items, I don't even recall what all of them do. Some let a player know what items other players have, so if you did say what items you had, and you were not lynched, then I or someone else might pick up one of those "identify all the items of one player" and determine whether or not you're telling the truth. There is also a scroll that can burn another player's items, if you've got any items that could only possibly help scum, that might be useful info. A town thief should totally try and acquire all the scum only useful items, then say they've got a bunch of them once someone announces they have a scroll of burn items (fireball?). A mafia thief can reacquire those items for the scum team, so its the only way to get them out of circulation entirely (as far as I know, lots of stuff to follow in this game).
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 12:04:07 pm
Strategy: Nobody is talking about this! And I don't know how to handle these types! Conversation is GOOD, even if its hard.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 12:07:10 pm
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 12:13:24 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170712.msg7797247#msg7797247 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170712.msg7797247#msg7797247)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 12:18:10 pm
Right, I am crazy. But here is a page with a good example of walls from me, so. It's only insane if it doesn't work?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170712.msg7797247#msg7797247 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170712.msg7797247#msg7797247)
Thanks, I saw briefly that Web volunteers to help on the first page. How involved was Web in that game?
Any other games with these players where you were Town? HINT: You're forgetting one, at least.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 12:20:44 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 29, 2021, 12:26:08 pm
:-\ Am I actually going to get lynched based on decent play? I don't even have the excuse of being scum this time.
Just remember you guys asked, and I laid things out openly and Honestly.
So, let's lay out my evidence for Tric - it's day one, but it's a fairly simple layout.
Tric usually isn't this good.
It's a cop out, but it's a good starting point - Tric usually jumps, or digs his heels in, but he seems fairly level-headed this time around (leading me to ask him if he was changing his town meta. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283181#msg8283181), he's given claims that he's a bard yet avoids questions/proving it (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283001#msg8283001), and otherwise just..
Right. Is it reasonable to assume that people can improve the more they play? Because by now, Tric does actually have some decent to moderate experience. Improvement doesn't automatically mean that someone's being helped, nor does the presence of someone able to help mean help will occur. Or that it'll be listened to. I'm not sure this is a good enough justification for an actual lynch.
Tric's very often the 'easy lynch' in games due to the way he plays, and I don't like that trend. Oh ffs. There are currently five votes on Tric. What scummy action did he do to deserve the lynch?
What?What?What?What?
OK? I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that information. I have to assume that if webadict is town, they're going to play in a pro-town way.Yeah, that's what I've noticed about webadict. He's a personality player, and the way he acts seems to stay constant whether he's town or mafia. Realistically, if there's anyone here who could deflect my ability to read the most, it's him. So I'm going with this idea: as long as there are players that are actively acting significantly scummy, I don't have to try and see through whatever facade the crazy-skilled veterans might be throwing up.
I'm guessing web's still just trying to see how flappable I am. I will not be flapped.
As mentioned, this is NQT currently.
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.The mind games don't reflect well on you. I also recognize you might not care about that in the slightest.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
So at this point I'd go over NQT's most recent posts, but he hasn't seem to have made any new ones, so instead I'll focus on prefuzek, the hypothetical partner of NQT. I have to recognize that my read on prefuzek is based strongly on the way NQT says he reads him, so anything I can do to confirm or deny my read would be ideal here.
A BluarianKnight/webadict scumteam does make sense at this point.prefuzek's scumpicks are webadict and BluarianKnight. At the moment I read webadict as either very town or very scum, with no idea which of those it really is, but leaning the first, and BluarianKnight as decently town. That aside, though.
In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.Do you mind telling me why you don't want to vote webadict today, if you think he's scum? A good rule of thumb is 'always vote the scummiest player'. Do you think Bluarian is more scummy than web?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 12:49:51 pm
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 12:52:50 pm
Web, Can we get a lurker track?
More seriously(though the lurker track is always useful) NQT. The question I have to ask you is this, where are the charts?
prefuzek gets there own question, what experience do you have, if any, and how will you apply it?
Jim/Toony, why the steady vote on me? Do you still think your vote has the right reasoning, or has that reasoning changed any? What was the original reasoning.
Web, where is Mamobo?
Jack, do you still want to shorten the day? Why did you want to shorten it originally?
Fal, when do you think RVS ended, and who's votes fall into that timeline?
Blue, why is your vote based on my competence? Can you point out the flaws in my reasoning and put together a strong argument for me being scum?
Web3adict, ... I forgot my question for you. Umm.. Right! What do you think of me picking Random? Likewise what do you think of the other claimed roles, and why people might have picked them?
Normally these questions would be in the starting day. Instead, they are today. Let us see your answers.
Post by: notquitethere on May 29, 2021, 01:03:02 pm
Just a quick pop in to say:
- Tric, charts are for D2+. There's been no flips yet!
- Someone said something about a curse: I have a scroll of curse curing, so if I die and some needs it, raid the stack for it.
- Jack, scum hunting should pick up sk's etc. Focusing on 3rd parties when we don't know if they exist is a bad idea.
- Can everyone on the Tric wagon explain their case if they haven't already?
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2021, 01:20:38 pm
If you want some defense behind my voting for you, it's not that you're doing well. For me, it's that you're being extremely cautious, which is what I actually believe you do as scum. When you're Town, you don't really care how you act because it comes with the knowledge that you're Town, and that's why you look anti-Town as Town.
I am willing to look more into it, though, if given reason.
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 01:28:31 pm
I'm not voting for webadict today because they claimed Paladin and I want them to have the chance to inspect someone tonight. They are still my top scumpick.
@Tricmagic: I used to play here on a different account many years ago. I wasn't very good back then. I think what my experience taught me is that it's better to look into intentions than to look for common scumtells and vote people who make mistakes. It's almost always the players who are prone to making mistakes (like you in this game?) who are lynched first and I think that is bad.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 01:34:49 pm
So, question is, is scum going to take the shot? Or try and lynch me?
Nin. Not voting the Paladin day 1 is good play. As they will show themselves tomorrow. Barring a scum thief excuse.(Not that that will work very well, given keeping web around is like keeping a miller around, a risky play.[They say having been miller twice before.] Not that that is wrong, but there is good reason to claim day 1 because of that.)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 01:57:02 pm
Jack, do you still want to shorten the day? Why did you want to shorten it originally?
NO, NEVER AGAIN. NEVER NEVER NEVER. :P
But seriously, not right now. I'm actually seeing significant value in the discussion.
Previously, I did not see the significance to the discussion, and wanted to move on the Meat and Potatoes of Day 2. Plus I wanna know what I got from the item pool. It was a mistake, I'm sorry. If you've got any further questions on this point, let me know.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 29, 2021, 02:09:27 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 29, 2021, 02:55:56 pm
PFP
I think Jim and NQT are probably town too.
Let's go with TricMagic. Jim is never wrong.
I feel weird having you sheep on me. It's increasing my misgivings about you.
Speaking of tomorrow it's my birthday and I plan on being away for most of the day.
Happy Birthday!
What's your plan for today then? Also, do you have faith in your ability to read Jim?The same thing it is every Day: Try totake over the worldfind the scum.
And no, not really, but I play this game like it's poker.
*scribbles meta notes down*
However, my feeling is that you're trying to avoid voting me in an effort to not draw attention to yourself, which explains voting for BluarianKnight (bandwagon vote), pocketing, and buddying up to EuchreJack. You're also avoiding OMGUSing me, but I think that's because you're a little scared of going up against me because I effectively nailed you as scum on your first post and that's an entirely terrifying prospect to deal with.
OK? I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that information. I have to assume that if webadict is town, they're going to play in a pro-town way.Well, it's mostly that I'm convinced I'm right that you're scum, and if my results don't match that conviction, I will assume that I am still right and keep pushing it. That's why you need to convince me that I'm tunnelling you if you're Town. If you think I'm scum, then I get launched the day after I do such a stupid move. Therefore, my alignment for today should matter to you, because I am going to do that move.
I'm guessing web's still just trying to see how flappable I am. I will not be flapped.
If you're confident about prefuzek shouldn't you be voting him?
Do you think TricMagic is scummier than prefuzek?
Do you see a TricMagic/prefuzek team?
webadict,, Jim, Toonyman: When's the last time you were lynched D1?
I wanted to say never but I remembered some Paranormal game where I was a Survivor and had a Deadman Bomb, and I got voted out on Day 1 and threw a gigantic fit in dead chat about it.
It's the only instance I can recall. That was years ago.
I have no idea who you are but how familiar are you with the players in this game from reading other games, lurking, whatever?
In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.
I don't think there's any point. Neither web nor I want to lynch the other today, and whatever happens with web's inspect and claim tonight is going to change the nature of the conversation, so I might as well wait until then. Plus, like BK has said, webadictiness is mostly a null tell for webadict.
I'm not voting for webadict today because they claimed Paladin and I want them to have the chance to inspect someone tonight. They are still my top scumpick.
What is your plan here?
If webadict is here on Day 2 with an inspection result, are you going to believe him? Are you still going to suspect him? What is the value of his inspect to you if you suspect him?
Are you hoping he gets killed on Night 1? Wouldn't that imply you think he's town?
If he's your top suspect isn't he more valuable dead at the end of Day 1, rather than alive on Day 2 with a dubious inspection results?
Are you intimidated by him like he suggests?
I get that you've repeated yourself several times about why you're not voting webadict but your reasons don't make sense.
Ugh, my head hurts. I didn't know it was Tric posting. Welcome to team Town, Tric.
Awaiting Jim's confirmation, but probably Town:
TricMagic
TricMagic Awaiting Confirmation from Jim, but Blue thinks is Scum. Blue knows Scum Tric, so if Blue is Town, Tric is scum
TricMagic
This post convinced me that this is Scum Tric.
Anyone have anything to share on Serial Killers/Arsonists? I've never played a game with Hostile Third Parties before.
Strategy: Nobody is talking about this! And I don't know how to handle these types! Conversation is GOOD, even if its hard.
"I think TricMagic is town"
"I want Jim to tell me if TricMagic is town"
"I'm okay with BluearianKnight who I read as null and previously read as scum telling me that TricMagic is scum"
"I'm going to vote TricMagic who by coincidence is the most popular bandwagon"
". . ."
"Hey guys what about hostile third parties?"
I'm really bothered by this sheeping but it's so blatant and unashamed and unafraid it could only be done by somebody who both didn't know what they were doing and was town.
Fuck if you were actually scum I'd expect you to ask the town who the scum team should night kill.
I'm going to have to eat my words. EuchreJack is setting off a lot of alarm bells. The more he posts the more difficult I find it to rationalize his goofball behavior as naivete.
Ninjas.. NQT, not claiming paladin if you are a paladin is good. We either get multiple kill targets meaning at least one inspect goes through, leading to a strong day 2, or any protect items can be used on the paladin, and claimed day 2 with the inspect result. Once an item is used, it's gone.
Okay you're leaning scum on NQT.
Why is he worth voting? I'll see if you clarified elsewhere but I'm probably going to still end up being confused.
Jim/Toony, why the steady vote on me? Do you still think your vote has the right reasoning, or has that reasoning changed any? What was the original reasoning.
- Can everyone on the Tric wagon explain their case if they haven't already?
I've been warming up to Tric's play this game. It's out of character but I also don't hate what he's been doing. If I recall my initial read was because he felt quiet and his first post where he said webadict was going to be dead by Day 3 made me raise my eyebrow.
I know I said recently that if TricMagic makes sense he's scum but I don't feel that here.
Honestly, Tric just doesn't justify themselves enough. That said, we've seen them be the 'easy lynch' in the past, haven't we? A town player who acts too unpredictably, making him an easy target.
When has TricMagic been mislynched? Trying to recall instances. BYOR15, maybe? I dispute that he's been an easy lynch in general.
Punching bag, sure. But he's not the go-to mislynch like an Org or a Luckyowl would be.
NQT reads bad
Jim reads good
This is an oddball avenue of attack but I'm struggling to articulate what I don't like about it. It just seems arbitrary and picky.
In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.Do you mind telling me why you don't want to vote webadict today, if you think he's scum? A good rule of thumb is 'always vote the scummiest player'. Do you think Bluarian is more scummy than web?
What do you think about prefuzek and webadict suspecting each other but also dodging each other?
Reads
You've got four players in the scummyish range. Among those which make sense as teams?
I am going to unvote TricMagic since I'm not bothered by his play anymore now that he's started to make his presence felt.
Not feeling ToonyMan. Just not here and not being his normal commanding presence.
EuchreJack is bothering the shit out of me by blatantly sheeping other players and joining popular bandwagons and then worrying about hostile third parties, which are all things scum players do, just not typically as blatantly.
prefuzek and webadict mutually suspecting each other but not voting each other concerns me. They voted each other earlier in the day so it's weird they both backed off from each other. Between the two I think it reflects worse on prefuzek than it does webadict, whom I still mostly read as webadict. I feel like prefuzek should be trying to get webadict if he's actually earnest about suspecting him.
NQT, FoU, and BK are around. FoU and BK are okay; NQT feels a little weaker than I'd expect. I'm pretty ambivalent about these three players in general though.
Between the players bothering me i.e. ToonyMan, EuchreJack, prefuzek, and webadict, I can't convince myself that any pairing is the scum team.
This game is a little messy.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:14:32 pm
Sheeping Jim, confirmed town, initiating now.
UNVOTE
Vote prefuzek
I'm not generally the sort of person that likes to justify myself, but I will mention that prefuzek was my #2 choice AND I was trying to squeeze as much use as possible out of a Lynch of Town Tric. And don't worry Jim, accusing me of being scum is just part of your Town meta, so I'm loving the further and complete confirmation of your Townness.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 03:19:42 pm
@Jim: Would you mind posting your reads? I know you've got some mixed in your post, but I'd like a clearer impression on what you think. And yes, you are so absolutely fucking Town. Like seriously, everyone should use their protects on you, because you're the only one who can be completely trusted by everyone.
Sheeping Jim, confirmed town, initiating now.
UNVOTE
Vote prefuzek
I'm not generally the sort of person that likes to justify myself, but I will mention that prefuzek was my #2 choice AND I was trying to squeeze as much use as possible out of a Lynch of Town Tric. And don't worry Jim, accusing me of being scum is just part of your Town meta, so I'm loving the further and complete confirmation of your Townness.
That is a bit much Jack. Why are you voting for who you're voting for? Is NQT your partner?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:20:14 pm
@Tric: If you do flip Town, I will at least feel bad about it, you'll have improved your meta, AND your death will give much information to Town. Who wanted to lynch you? Why did they want to lynch you?
@Tric: Who should be vouching for your town-ness? Who should be saying "I remember the time Tric was acting just like this, and he was totally Town"?
Please reference specific games if possible, so newbies like me can look them over.Jack, are you a thief? Hence the item fishing?I'm a Merchant. But there are many items, I don't even recall what all of them do. Some let a player know what items other players have, so if you did say what items you had, and you were not lynched, then I or someone else might pick up one of those "identify all the items of one player" and determine whether or not you're telling the truth. There is also a scroll that can burn another player's items, if you've got any items that could only possibly help scum, that might be useful info. A town thief should totally try and acquire all the scum only useful items, then say they've got a bunch of them once someone announces they have a scroll of burn items (fireball?). A mafia thief can reacquire those items for the scum team, so its the only way to get them out of circulation entirely (as far as I know, lots of stuff to follow in this game).
That one that Tric was forgetting was the one that I was in, and where NQT was mafia. To reiterate, I don't think we can afford to lynch NQT on day 1, otherwise I'd be looking a lot closer at NQT's behavior (or lack thereof, no graphs as others have mentioned).Right, I am crazy. But here is a page with a good example of walls from me, so. It's only insane if it doesn't work?
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170712.msg7797247#msg7797247 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=170712.msg7797247#msg7797247)
Thanks, I saw briefly that Web volunteers to help on the first page. How involved was Web in that game?
Any other games with these players where you were Town? HINT: You're forgetting one, at least.
Also, Tric please ask questions of other players, I'd like to see how they respond to you. Whatever roll you flip, it should help Town. Feel free to ask me questions too, that should help town as well!Trying to squeeze the most out of a lynch of Tric if they were Town. By the way, Tric is NOT off the hook, but again, trusting Jim's intuition on this one as I said I would, and voting my 2nd choice.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:22:29 pm
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2021, 03:23:41 pm
If you're confident about prefuzek shouldn't you be voting him?Because I don't think I have a good enough gauge on their meta read to definitively call them scum, so if I did, I'd likely be solo-pushing the vote all day and use up a lot of emotional bandwidth on it. Honestly, if I were more sure, I'd be willing to steer the town that way, but I'd rather hear what everyone else says first, just in case.
Do you think TricMagic is scummier than prefuzek?
Do you see a TricMagic/prefuzek team?
As for if TricMagic is scummier... Eh? Maybe? I'm pretty sure TricMagic is being extra cautious here, and that it's not related to them trying to play better. Tric looks Town as scum and looks scum as Town. The key is understanding why: TricMagic is impatient as a player. As scum, they overthink their actions, and as Town, they underthink them. That's why they look like they do.
So, is TricMagic scummier? Technically, no. But, it's because TricMagic is overthinking their actions. They don't want to stand out. They're trying to hide. And that's what makes their actions scummier is the insidious take on them.
And as for a prefuzek/TricMagic team, absolutely. Look at their interactions and tell me that isn't high equity for w/w.
That is a bit much Jack. Why are you voting for who you're voting for? Is NQT your partner?Why are you defending prefuzek so much?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:30:53 pm
And as for a prefuzek/TricMagic team, absolutely. Look at their interactions and tell me that isn't high equity for w/w.
Just an FYI that I see it, but I'd rather wait till one flips Scum to offer the proof. Gives less chance of the surviving scum trying to explain it away. I got at least one post from each of them.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:35:26 pm
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 03:38:38 pm
If you're confident about prefuzek shouldn't you be voting him?Because I don't think I have a good enough gauge on their meta read to definitively call them scum,
Do you think TricMagic is scummier than prefuzek?
Do you see a TricMagic/prefuzek team?That is a bit much Jack. Why are you voting for who you're voting for? Is NQT your partner?Why are you defending prefuzek so much?
You answered your own question webadict. But I'd defend jim and toony too. There are scummier in my eyes, like you. But being paladin, I at least want to see your inspect go off and you reveal that knowledge day 2.
RIGHT! EuchreJack, at this point you are definitely fishing for items. Why? because you are a scum-thief.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 03:39:52 pm
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 03:42:21 pm
I'm a Merchant. I say this so that players that inspect me as Town know I'm Town. Plus, my overall behavior should confirm that I'm merchanty.Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
You should have been a merchant. You're a real star over at Risky Ventures. If I sheep you, will you borrow money from me? ;D
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?
Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?
Everyone else: Get the joke?
notquitethere How do I play this game? Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.
Jim Groovester: Do you think Web and Toonyman will figure out the format in such a way as to win by the end of the first day?
Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?
Why did you make so many posts in a row looking for classes? And no, I do not get the joke.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:49:55 pm
So here is where I offer that I have proof connecting prefuzek and TricMagic as a team.And as for a prefuzek/TricMagic team, absolutely. Look at their interactions and tell me that isn't high equity for w/w.
Just an FYI that I see it, but I'd rather wait till one flips Scum to offer the proof. Gives less chance of the surviving scum trying to explain it away. I got at least one post from each of them.
@Toaster: If a player chooses Random, their random starter item is upgraded a rarity level. If that random is Bard, they get a random uncommon in addition to a random common. Which of the TWO starter items of the Bard gets upgraded?
Here, I guess, is the alleged item fishing. Personally, I think Town benefits from actually knowing the Rules. I absolutely WILL NOT cease trying to figure out the game just to placate possible scum or even confirmed Town. Fuck that shit.
If you're confident about prefuzek shouldn't you be voting him?Because I don't think I have a good enough gauge on their meta read to definitively call them scum,
Do you think TricMagic is scummier than prefuzek?
Do you see a TricMagic/prefuzek team?That is a bit much Jack. Why are you voting for who you're voting for? Is NQT your partner?Why are you defending prefuzek so much?
You answered your own question webadict. But I'd defend jim and toony too. There are scummier in my eyes, like you. But being paladin, I at least want to see your inspect go off and you reveal that knowledge day 2.
RIGHT! EuchreJack, at this point you are definitely fishing for items. Why? because you are a scum-thief.
And here is where Tric goes off the handle and starts trying to get me Lynch'd. Also, point of order: Town thief can be quite useful, even though I am, and until some scroll of polymorph or whatever goes off, will continue to be a Merchant.
UNVOTE
Bandwagoning, item fishing, hanging in the background asking questions and pushing lynchwagons. I don't think you a null-tell anymore.
And I you, TricMagic
When we lynch you and you turn up Scum, I'll reveal why you and prefuzek are Scumbuddies on Day 2, and Town will be doing well. I can't say that is a win, because our noble GM is tight-lipped about number of scum or possible non-aligned scum, but we're at least closer to winning. I'll take that.
Ninja'd by Tric, at this point I'm almost thinking its intentional, if that is possible. Anyways, next post will be my answer to Tric's most recent post...
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 03:51:58 pm
You say you have proof connecting us. So where is that proof?
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 03:54:36 pm
@Toaster, did Scum get to collate with each other before they picked their classes?See the Paladin claim is a gambit that scum can easily pull. In fact, I was expecting at least one. But maybe the scum didn't want to put a target on themselves. I am willing to bet that scum probably did pick (at least one) Paladin and have now hid that fact, but I also don't necessarily believe more than 1 did.
My theory is that Scum would pick one Paladin and one other roll (and one other roll if there are more than two), unless they were unable to consult prior to picking classes.
I mean, why put two Godfathers on a team, when they could have a Godfather and a Bulletproof/Strongman/Doctor/whatever?PPE: Technically yes, but why do you necessarily even believe me? Why does anyone believe me?
I don't.
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE ELSE: Respond to Web's question please!
Jack, you say that info is good for town, but why not ask this question to the mod when it came to you?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:55:47 pm
@Toaster, did Scum get to collate with each other before they picked their classes?See the Paladin claim is a gambit that scum can easily pull. In fact, I was expecting at least one. But maybe the scum didn't want to put a target on themselves. I am willing to bet that scum probably did pick (at least one) Paladin and have now hid that fact, but I also don't necessarily believe more than 1 did.
My theory is that Scum would pick one Paladin and one other roll (and one other roll if there are more than two), unless they were unable to consult prior to picking classes.
I mean, why put two Godfathers on a team, when they could have a Godfather and a Bulletproof/Strongman/Doctor/whatever?PPE: Technically yes, but why do you necessarily even believe me? Why does anyone believe me?
I don't.
QUESTION FOR EVERYONE ELSE: Respond to Web's question please!
Jack, you say that info is good for town, but why not ask this question to the mod when it came to you?
I forgot. Good point. And thanks for the music.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 03:56:27 pm
Well Jack, why are you trying to gather this information, send these signals? (https://youtu.be/pMTUUWXdX6k)
You say you have proof connecting us. So where is that proof?
Fuck that. You can read about it when you're dead and unable to disprove it
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 04:00:29 pm
I'm a Merchant. I say this so that players that inspect me as Town know I'm Town. Plus, my overall behavior should confirm that I'm merchanty.Bard. The Bardiest Bard to ever Bard. I picked Random, so guess that is for balance reasons. Or just actually random.
Web, why scumlean me so early? Are you looking to stay in the shadows?
You should have been a merchant. You're a real star over at Risky Ventures. If I sheep you, will you borrow money from me? ;D
But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?
Everyone else: Get the joke?notquitethere How do I play this game? Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.
Jim Groovester: Do you think Web and Toonyman will figure out the format in such a way as to win by the end of the first day?
Webadict: What is your thoughts on every Town player that gets a Kill item basically going full-vigilante and killing as much as possible?
Why did you make so many posts in a row looking for classes? And no, I do not get the joke.
My strategy was to pin down players NOW so as to prevent scum Paladins from being able to pick whatever class happened to fit closest with their actions LATER.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 04:04:31 pm
UNVOTE2 hours later, unvote, and...
SHORTEN
Doing so changed nothing, why did you unvote and immediately shorten?
Likewise, the votecount came up immediately after, and you still voted to shorten.
Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
You then retracted that, and at prompting voted blue. This type of trend has continued. Why did you vote Blue then? Was it because it served as a vote that had no consequence? Why not push someone who had votes, like toony, web, or even myself?
It is not guilty until proven innocent Jack. Is your evidence really so lacking that you require someone to be dead to present it, when they can't break it and you can alter it to match the result? (https://youtu.be/SHMh3QeW8Uk)Well Jack, why are you trying to gather this information, send these signals? (https://youtu.be/pMTUUWXdX6k)
You say you have proof connecting us. So where is that proof?
Fuck that. You can read about it when you're dead and unable to disprove it
We have long since left the stage of claims. That line of thought can no longer shield you. There would be no reason to know other classes.
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 29, 2021, 04:06:22 pm
@Jim: Would you mind posting your reads? I know you've got some mixed in your post, but I'd like a clearer impression on what you think. And yes, you are so absolutely fucking Town. Like seriously, everyone should use their protects on you, because you're the only one who can be completely trusted by everyone.
No, I already did. In my post summary at the bottom I talk about everybody and what I think of them.
Sheeping Jim, confirmed town, initiating now.
"I'm going to keep on doing the things that makes Jim suspicious of me."
Because I don't think I have a good enough gauge on their meta read to definitively call them scum, so if I did, I'd likely be solo-pushing the vote all day and use up a lot of emotional bandwidth on it. Honestly, if I were more sure, I'd be willing to steer the town that way, but I'd rather hear what everyone else says first, just in case.
Alright.
You give off the impression that you're a lot more certain about your read on prefuzek than you indicate here however.
Which I guess I don't care enough about to poke at it further.
Quote
TricMagic and EuchreJack OMGUSing each other
k I'm out
I'll be back later
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 04:17:35 pm
UNVOTE2 hours later, unvote, and...SHORTEN
Doing so changed nothing, why did you unvote and immediately shorten?
Likewise, the votecount came up immediately after, and you still voted to shorten.Euchrejack, why do you want to shorten when the vote is tied and you're not voting?
Good point! I'll vote BluarianKnight
You then retracted that, and at prompting voted blue. This type of trend has continued. Why did you vote Blue then? Was it because it served as a vote that had no consequence? Why not push someone who had votes, like toony, web, or even myself?It is not guilty until proven innocent Jack. Is your evidence really so lacking that you require someone to be dead to present it, when they can't break it and you can alter it to match the result? (https://youtu.be/SHMh3QeW8Uk)Well Jack, why are you trying to gather this information, send these signals? (https://youtu.be/pMTUUWXdX6k)
You say you have proof connecting us. So where is that proof?
Fuck that. You can read about it when you're dead and unable to disprove it
We have long since left the stage of claims. That line of thought can no longer shield you. There would be no reason to know other classes.
And thanks for the extra music.
My evidence is a quotation of a post by yourself, and a post by prefuzek. I can't alter posts that you guys made, sorry that your logic fails. What I will not do is give either of you a chance to try to "explain away" these posts which I think link you. If the vote shows that I'm going to get lynched, then I'll reveal it. Otherwise, better to wait until day 2, when only one of you can try to explain away the connection.
OMGUS. Totally stealing that from Jim.
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 04:20:58 pm
Right now it's NQT, Jack, and I'd say you, prefuzek. Though the last is more not knowing you to base reads off of, it just feels like a weird playstyle you're using.*ALARMS BLARING*But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.Why are you doing this?
Did you really think a single vote could create a shortened day? I want you to answer web's question, as you never did at the time.
Post by: Toaster on May 29, 2021, 04:27:49 pm
EuchreJack: TricMagic
notquitethere: FallacyofUrist
TricMagic: ToonyMan, webadict, BluarianKnight, EuchreJack
prefuzek: Jim Groovester
BluarianKnight: prefuzek
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan: notquitethere
Not Voting:
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 10 PM EST.
@Toaster: If a player chooses Random, their random starter item is upgraded a rarity level. If that random is Bard, they get a random uncommon in addition to a random common. Which of the TWO starter items of the Bard gets upgraded?
A Random-Bard gets two random uncommon items.
@Toaster, did Scum get to collate with each other before they picked their classes?
In Roguelike games, you know your alignment but not any theoretical teammates at the moment of class selection.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 04:30:03 pm
The fact you can't use them and are willing to wait until one of us is dead to do so astounds me. Not that it would matter at that point, since the goal of this lynch campaign is to kill me during the day so I don't get an action at night. Next bit though.Right now it's NQT, Jack, and I'd say you, prefuzek. Though the last is more not knowing you to base reads off of, it just feels like a weird playstyle you're using.*ALARMS BLARING*But then Tric posted nonsense and I figured it was Town Tric. I'm not quite as good at reading Tric as others, but I'm trying. I got ninja'd by Tric's post, which I said I couldn't even tell came from Tric. So now I really, really, really don't want the shorten, since I'm thinking Tric is town and we're going towards a mislynch.Why are you doing this?
Did you really think a single vote could create a shortened day? I want you to answer web's question, as you never did at the time.
My apologies, I had overlooked that in all the many questions being asked (or at least it seemed like a lot at the time, I'm not looking back there). The answer, of course, is that a single vote could NOT create a shortened day. I was simply putting down one vote, one opinion. Saying that I was willing to move on to day 2. As I have said in the past, this was a stupid thing to do, since as I've seen, there is certainly some benefit to letting the day drag on and on and on and on in order to obtain valuable info. For instance, I was only sorta sure you were scum at that time. Now I'm absolutely sure. Time to die Tric, and we'll have fun killing prefuzek tomorrow. And then we'll hopefully be rid of your team, but if not, we'll find the other connections. Time to die Tric. Your scum game is improving, but you slipped up.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 04:32:40 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 04:35:37 pm
Post by: TricMagic on May 29, 2021, 04:42:07 pm
Objection! (https://youtu.be/fR4P8o95WPA)
My apologies, I had overlooked that in all the many questions being asked (or at least it seemed like a lot at the time, I'm not looking back there). The answer, of course, is that a single vote could NOT create a shortened day. I was simply putting down one vote, one opinion. Saying that I was willing to move on to day 2. As I have said in the past, this was a stupid thing to do, since as I've seen, there is certainly some benefit to letting the day drag on and on and on and on in order to obtain valuable info. For instance, I was only sorta sure you were scum at that time. Now I'm absolutely sure. Time to die Tric, and we'll have fun killing prefuzek tomorrow. And then we'll hopefully be rid of your team, but if not, we'll find the other connections. Time to die Tric. Your scum game is improving, but you slipped up.
You've slipped up Jack, gotten too eager to kill me. Did you even notice where I've been leading you all this time? Put simply, your willingness to kill me contradicts this key piece of evidence.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Put simply, by being willing to lynch me, your reasoning to risk a mafia NQT falls apart around you. The simple fact is, this is just an excuse. One you yourself just destroyed.
Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?
Post by: webadict on May 29, 2021, 05:19:40 pm
TricMagic, if you're not scum, then assume for a minute that I'm not scum (If you are scum, then this is already a known for you). Who are scum?
I'll be honest with you, it's not likely EuchreJack. It's also not likely BluarianKnight. So, you need to pick two from people that aren't included in us four. That means you gotta pick from Jim, FoU, NQT, ToonyMan, or prefuzek. And I'll add a caveat that it's also probably not FoU, just for complexity. You have to convince me on a pair from those four to make me shift my vote.
I am Town, and I do think you're playing better than usual, but I also think it's careful, and that's why I am cautious of you. So, make a good case for a pair from those four, or ignore me and grab from the three I shielded or whatever. I do not think the three I mentioned are scum, so it'll be harder to convince me.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 29, 2021, 07:16:22 pm
Jack and Tric fighting
groan
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 07:19:41 pm
Jim
I have no idea who you are but how familiar are you with the players in this game from reading other games, lurking, whatever?
Quite familiar: You, webadict, notquitethere, Toonyman
Not very familiar: everyone else
But I wouldn't say I have a good handle on anyone's meta tells since I haven't been playing games here.
Quote
What is your plan here?It's Day 1; I'm not 100% on any of my reads and inspects are valuable. Webadict said they're planning on inspecting me and calling me scum. If that happens then I vote webadict until they are dead. If they inspect me and call me town, I have thoughts about that that I don't want to reveal, but it's a net positive (I think you'll agree that me+web as the scum is unlikely). If they inspect someone else, it's still a valuable inspect. I'm not hoping they get nightkilled night 1 and I'm not sure why you would think that given that I said I want their inspect to happen.
If webadict is here on Day 2 with an inspection result, are you going to believe him? Are you still going to suspect him? What is the value of his inspect to you if you suspect him?
Are you hoping he gets killed on Night 1? Wouldn't that imply you think he's town?
If he's your top suspect isn't he more valuable dead at the end of Day 1, rather than alive on Day 2 with a dubious inspection results?
Are you intimidated by him like he suggests?
I get that you've repeated yourself several times about why you're not voting webadict but your reasons don't make sense.
Basically, there's not that much more value from lynching scum D1 than lynching scum D2, and there's a lot of potential value from an inspect. Am I wrong about that?
I don't feel too intimidated by web. I mean, I recognize they're much better and more experienced than me. But I don't want to let that affect my play.
How do you feel about web's plan to call me mafia no matter the inspect result?
Web: Why are you so confident in BluarianKnight, and why have you flipflopped on EuchreJack because of them?
Post by: prefuzek on May 29, 2021, 07:21:34 pm
Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?Why do you care if he sees it?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 29, 2021, 07:33:47 pm
Tric:Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?Why do you care if he sees it?
Now we start the bus...
Post by: ToonyMan on May 29, 2021, 07:41:24 pm
Why are you still townreading me? I don't get it at all. A lot of players are suspicious of me.
Post by: Mamobo on May 29, 2021, 08:16:34 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
BluarianKnight - 1 - prefuzek* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283305#msg8283305),
EuchreJack - 1 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283570#msg8283570),
FallacyofUrist - 0 -
Jim Groovester - 0 -
notquitethere - 1 - FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283183#msg8283183),
prefuzek - 1 - Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283554#msg8283554),
ToonyMan - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283125#msg8283125),
TricMagic - 4 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283574#msg8283574), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283490#msg8283490), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283452#msg8283452), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283131#msg8283131),
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on June 01, 2021 at 22:00 CDT (~73 hours remaining).
Post by: Mamobo on May 29, 2021, 08:17:37 pm
Lurker Track
------------------------
BluarianKnight - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8279519#msg8279519) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283074#msg8283074) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283181#msg8283181) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283182#msg8283182) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283198#msg8283198) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283316#msg8283316) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283369#msg8283369) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283386#msg8283386) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283490#msg8283490) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283545#msg8283545) Last post was 7 hours ago.
EuchreJack - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8279477#msg8279477) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8279579#msg8279579) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8282751#msg8282751) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8282982#msg8282982) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8282984#msg8282984) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8282996#msg8282996) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8282998#msg8282998) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283045#msg8283045) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283046#msg8283046) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283052#msg8283052) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283058#msg8283058) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283059#msg8283059) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283060#msg8283060) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283065#msg8283065) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283078#msg8283078) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283097#msg8283097) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283141#msg8283141) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283158#msg8283158) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283159#msg8283159) 20 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283164#msg8283164) 21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283166#msg8283166) 22 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283167#msg8283167) 23 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283172#msg8283172) 24 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283175#msg8283175) 25 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283176#msg8283176) 26 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283187#msg8283187) 27 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283195#msg8283195) 28 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283247#msg8283247) 29 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283258#msg8283258) 30 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283275#msg8283275) 31 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283281#msg8283281) 32 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283293#msg8283293) 33 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283295#msg8283295) 34 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283297#msg8283297) 35 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283309#msg8283309) 36 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283310#msg8283310) 37 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283313#msg8283313) 38 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283314#msg8283314) 39 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283333#msg8283333) 40 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283335#msg8283335) 41 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283341#msg8283341) 42 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283342#msg8283342) 43 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283458#msg8283458) 44 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283459#msg8283459) 45 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283463#msg8283463) 46 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283464#msg8283464) 47 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283474#msg8283474) 48 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283494#msg8283494) 49 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prefuzek - 1 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8279512#msg8279512) 2 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283019#msg8283019) 3 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283021#msg8283021) 4 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283142#msg8283142) 5 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283144#msg8283144) 6 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283170#msg8283170) 7 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283305#msg8283305) 8 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283312#msg8283312) 9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283318#msg8283318) 10 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283325#msg8283325) 11 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283332#msg8283332) 12 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283338#msg8283338) 13 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283397#msg8283397) 14 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283470#msg8283470) 15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283472#msg8283472) 16 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283500#msg8283500) 17 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283537#msg8283537) 18 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283637#msg8283637) 19 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283638#msg8283638) Last post was 1 hour ago.
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Post by: webadict on May 29, 2021, 08:18:53 pm
Yeah, okay, I'd vote out NQT based on this activity.
Post by: Toaster on May 29, 2021, 08:34:54 pm
Toaster: You're missing Jim's vote on me in the votecount.
Fixed, thank you.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 29, 2021, 10:54:05 pm
I still think Jack and Jim are town. Jim is acting like I expect town!Jim to and Jack is 90% of this game so far.
NQT has been away, but they said they would so that's pretty null. I still want to know why they gave a reads list like 12 hours into the game so scumlean. I agree with FoU here about NQT for the most part.
Webadict is a complete unknown, but gonna say townlean for now.
TricMagic is not only being sort of comprehensible, but is also townreading me even though I basically haven't been here. Has anybody attacked the Tric wagon so far? Prefuzek?
FoU feels town.
Bluarian and Prefuzek I don't know.
Town
Jack
Jim
FoU
Neutral
Web
Bluarian
Prefuzek
Scum
NQT
TricMagic
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 12:00:57 am
Web: Why are you so confident in BluarianKnight, and why have you flipflopped on EuchreJack because of them?Ehhhh... BluarianKnight tends to get angry when cornered as scum, and they haven't been lashing out in this game. Their meta tends to be combative as scum, especially when focused, and they were trying to reason their way out of this one. It's why I'm pretty sure it's not BluarianKnight. As for why I flipflopped, that's just because BK can be perceptive at times. Maybe they saw something I didn't. EuchreJack went out of their way to explain their motives behind their actions, but that'll make sure they're not the elim target for some time.
What it really means is that there are a certain subsect of players that could totally be scum, but I haven't fully deduced them yet. Maybe that's because at least one is within the less communicative group. Maybe it's because it's you and TricMagic. The point is that I'm willing to listen to reasons and deduce the right course of action.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 01:29:06 am
@NQT: Please post your reads list immediately. Thank you!
FOS: NQT
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 30, 2021, 04:15:36 am
QuoteTricMagic and EuchreJack OMGUSing each other
k I'm out
I'll be back later
Okay, EuchreJack and TricMagic, did you find out anything worthwhile about each other?
Because I haven't read your exchanges very closely and don't plan to.
It's Day 1; I'm not 100% on any of my reads and inspects are valuable. Webadict said they're planning on inspecting me and calling me scum. If that happens then I vote webadict until they are dead. If they inspect me and call me town, I have thoughts about that that I don't want to reveal, but it's a net positive (I think you'll agree that me+web as the scum is unlikely). If they inspect someone else, it's still a valuable inspect. I'm not hoping they get nightkilled night 1 and I'm not sure why you would think that given that I said I want their inspect to happen.
Basically, there's not that much more value from lynching scum D1 than lynching scum D2, and there's a lot of potential value from an inspect. Am I wrong about that?
Okay, sure, you're not positive that webadict is scum. I'm not convinced wanting his inspect result is a worthwhile justification to not push him but I don't want to go in circles on this topic.
You're voting BluearianKnight over webadict. Do you feel more confident in your case on BluearianKnight than on webadict? You weren't earlier:
BluarianKnight:
Case on web is above. You I have a less solid case on, but it seems to me like you're playing pretty safe and you haven't really done any work towards figuring things out. For example, lots of hedging here:
Shouldn't you be pushing your strongest read and most solid case?
It really, really feels like you're putting arbitrary obstacles in your path to avoid pushing webadict. I agree with you that I don't feel like it's likely for you two to be partners, but I continue to have a difficult time seeing how your actions are justified from your point of view.
How do you feel about web's plan to call me mafia no matter the inspect result?
I assume it was a bluff of some sort because it's too ridiculous a plan to be taken seriously.
TricMagic is not only being sort of comprehensible, but is also townreading me even though I basically haven't been here. Has anybody attacked the Tric wagon so far? Prefuzek?
I mean I pulled off the wagon because I don't think he's scum.
Post by: notquitethere on May 30, 2021, 07:41:28 am
Web
@NQT: Dislike your pushes. ToonyMan is semi-legit, but FoSing FoU is FoBad. Very, very pockety behavior coming from NQT, who believes I am Town almost in spite of myself. Almost like they don't want to be inspected.Is it bad because it's a FoS? Fallacy's arguments didn't hold water. I think you've got some plan or other and I'm looking forward to seeing how it pans out. Inspect me if you like, I'm not a Paladin.
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.This is... a joke?
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
Toony
@NQT:I wanted to give myself an early appraisal of the players. I wasn't the first player to give reads: do you think it was extraordinary that Jack and Jim gave reads before me?
Why did you give a full player list of reads already?
Tric
Ninjas.. NQT, not claiming paladin if you are a paladin is good. We either get multiple kill targets meaning at least one inspect goes through, leading to a strong day 2, or any protect items can be used on the paladin, and claimed day 2 with the inspect result. Once an item is used, it's gone.I agree, Paladins shouldn't normally claim because they're basically cops. I don't know what you think I was thinking. I was trying to say that picking Paladin is a move that mafia and serial killers will be tempted to do because it makes them read as town.
Fallacy
Why would you ask this?It's a different setup than usual, always good to question received ways of doing things. As it happens, I think I'm inclined to agree, it's best for town to have the info from the D1 execution.
This reads-list is low effort.
Whose reads are half quickfire and half very much not quickfire.
No, I don't think those were snap judgements. You might say that they are, but there's too much effort put into some of them, in a lopsided manner.So they're low effort but also too much effort... make up your mind!
Whatsoever. In fact, the typical curve of 'most effort put into highest town reads, most effort put into highest scum reads, least effort put into null reads' is inverted...But Jack and Jim's reads lists before me were justified? I made some quick reads to try to get a handle on the state of the game. The effort wasn't inverted, I just explained my thoughts in a longer sentence for Euchre. This is some high level nonsense you're inventing here.
This is a full reads list, at page 4. I don't buy it. I don't think it's justified. I don't think there's any point to it other than looking town.
Euchre
Regarding NQT: They have claimed some sort of Pro-Town Power role, so I'd strongly advise against lynching.
notquitethere We can't kill him yet even if we wanted to, because "might" be helpfulAll town have potential pro-town powers. That's the whole idea with the items questing. I'm not claiming to be anything more extraordinary than anyone else. I have since claimed my item: anti-curse scroll. Limited use. Might have something better tomorrow. I shouldn't be launched today, but not for this reason.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 07:44:24 am
And the insistence that I must reveal it NOW, IMMEDIATELY, sounds like desperate scum wanting to know where they screwed up so they can "talk it away".
Gut read: Tric is a mafia paladin.
Need to read NQT's post further, this was a my response to Jim's post.
Post by: notquitethere on May 30, 2021, 07:47:24 am
Furthermore, he calls my incentive vote on webadict a 'push'. Does anyone else think I'm actually pushing webadict?You're not pushing web. I was using language unclearly perhaps. My point was you voted web for reasons unstated, if it was for "incentive" (what does that mean here?) then you should have said at the time. I can't read your mind.
Post by: notquitethere on May 30, 2021, 08:04:07 am
Mmmmmmmmmm... prefuzek. Scumdar is pinging on them. I likely won'tget the evidence to string 'em, so that's why I'd shoot. I'd then shoot TricMagic, notquitethere, and then... Idk, BK? They haven't talked yet, but they are super sneaky scum.What specifically was pinging you about prefuzek? It must have been something significant for you to return after hopping off of him.
Like I said initially, there's no way I'm getting a prefuzek elim Today. But that's okay because we'll be able to vote them out solely based on my word Tomorrow.I don't like this. And why move over to Tric? You're just joining an easy wagon. Where's the rationale?
Blu
Anyhow, TricMagic - Who do you think are scum, currently?What do you think of Tric's replies?
Post by: notquitethere on May 30, 2021, 08:19:05 am
TOWN
Prefuzek - Has developed a number of reads and voted players for actual reasons
Jim - Has a couple of cases (Tric, Prefuzek) can explain his reasoning; pretty OK for d1.
Fallacy - is currently in tunnelmode but is actually thinking about a case and thinks he's got something, which is more than can be said for some players
EuchreJack - Veering wildly and incomprehensibly about. Overcompensatory play. Not really sure what to think. Probably not actually scum.
Tric - A bit hard to understand, but has shown attention to detail in pursuit of Jack case.
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 08:33:09 am
You still haven't revealed this supposed link between us. And you really don't see it do you? What is the one thing in common my quotes of your posts have? It's not something that would reveal you to be town or scum, but it is a look into how I put you into a corner.Tric:Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?Why do you care if he sees it?
Now we start the bus...
Objection! (https://youtu.be/fR4P8o95WPA)
My apologies, I had overlooked that in all the many questions being asked (or at least it seemed like a lot at the time, I'm not looking back there). The answer, of course, is that a single vote could NOT create a shortened day. I was simply putting down one vote, one opinion. Saying that I was willing to move on to day 2. As I have said in the past, this was a stupid thing to do, since as I've seen, there is certainly some benefit to letting the day drag on and on and on and on in order to obtain valuable info. For instance, I was only sorta sure you were scum at that time. Now I'm absolutely sure. Time to die Tric, and we'll have fun killing prefuzek tomorrow. And then we'll hopefully be rid of your team, but if not, we'll find the other connections. Time to die Tric. Your scum game is improving, but you slipped up.
You've slipped up Jack, gotten too eager to kill me. Did you even notice where I've been leading you all this time? Put simply, your willingness to kill me contradicts this key piece of evidence.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Put simply, by being willing to lynch me, your reasoning to risk a mafia NQT falls apart around you. The simple fact is, this is just an excuse. One you yourself just destroyed.
That being said, can you counter this now that you're sober? We had a good chain going before.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 08:45:09 am
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 30, 2021, 09:18:59 am
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 30, 2021, 09:37:51 am
FallacyWhy would you ask this?[1] It's a different setup than usual, always good to question received ways of doing things. As it happens, I think I'm inclined to agree, it's best for town to have the info from the D1 execution.This reads-list is low effort.Whose reads are half quickfire and half very much not quickfire.No, I don't think those were snap judgements. You might say that they are, but there's too much effort put into some of them, in a lopsided manner.[2] So they're low effort but also too much effort... make up your mind!Whatsoever. In fact, the typical curve of 'most effort put into highest town reads, most effort put into highest scum reads, least effort put into null reads' is inverted...[3] But Jack and Jim's reads lists before me were justified? I made some quick reads to try to get a handle on the state of the game. The effort wasn't inverted, I just explained my thoughts in a longer sentence for Euchre. [4] This is some high level nonsense you're inventing here.
This is a full reads list, at page 4. I don't buy it. I don't think it's justified. I don't think there's any point to it other than looking town.
[1]: Seems fair enough.
[2]: No, it's both. Instead of putting an even distribution of effort into each player, the level of effort you're putting in is minimal for some and disproportionately high for others. Minimal effort is... acceptable for pure Day 1 gut reads. But you're focused more on specific players that aren't even on the most important ends of the spectrum.
[3]: Following that, the longer sentence indicates more effort. Writing is effort. And yes, Jim's list was justified, I even made a whole post on why. Again, there's not necessarily something wrong with an earlier reads list, but yours tickled my funny bone.
The biggest question here is, why do Prefuzek and EuchreJack get the most effort when they're in the middle - the usually null area - of your list?
[4]: I dunno, it feels like you're focused a bit too much on discrediting me, based on your word choice.
Slowfire ReadsThis, I like more, since you're distributing effort evenly and everything has some level of justification.
TOWN
Prefuzek - Has developed a number of reads and voted players for actual reasons
Jim - Has a couple of cases (Tric, Prefuzek) can explain his reasoning; pretty OK for d1.
Fallacy - is currently in tunnelmode but is actually thinking about a case and thinks he's got something, which is more than can be said for some players
EuchreJack - Veering wildly and incomprehensibly about. Overcompensatory play. Not really sure what to think. Probably not actually scum.
Tric - A bit hard to understand, but has shown attention to detail in pursuit of Jack case.
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM
Let's compare it to your old list.
Quickfire reads:
Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum
Interestingly, there's a lot of differences here. Prefuzek gets moved up to #1, web gets booted down to #7...
But since Prefuzek had so much justification in the first reads list, I have to ask. Why wasn't Prefuzek your towniest pick in the Quickfire reads? You clearly had more justification for him than Jim.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 30, 2021, 09:44:08 am
ReadsYou've got four players in the scummyish range. Among those which make sense as teams?
Euchre and Prez was my suspicion, with a possible Tric/Prez team. Toony and.. either Prez, or somebody else.
I'm probably going to revisit my list today.
BluAnyhow, TricMagic - Who do you think are scum, currently?What do you think of Tric's replies?
I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.
I'm still suspicious of Prez - it's moreso a gut feeling, but his activity's been off to me.
Also;
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.Jack's a new player - While he's still seeming super scummy, a lot of his actions to me tell me of a town!player still trying to figure out what they're doing - I did a lot of the same stupid mistakes in Supernatural 10. I don't want to vote a player just because he's learning, so I backed off.
SCUM
As for Tric, his play felt super off to me - Far different, so I thought he was scum.
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 09:57:27 am
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.Well that's just blatantly false. You've just tied together my initial gutread with my continued reason for voting prefuzek.
My inital gutread was based entirely on what I believed to be scummy behavior. It's intuition. It doesn't really need defense. But, if you somehow tied that to when I began to justify (post-vote) for why prefuzek would be a good vote, then you're kinda not paying attention.
Additionally, there's plenty of reason to suspect TricMagic, and the ties between the two indicate very real w/w equity, which you conveniently ignored. See, I thought you paid attention in this game, but silly me, maybe you rushed your analysis when I suggested that an elimination on you might be a good thing considering your lackluster performance up to this point (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283657#msg8283657).webThen vote me. I don't know why you're voting BluarianKnight and claiming their only echoing other player's points but you seem to be trying to pocket yourself in EuchreJack's wake and dogpiling on BluarianKnight for "attacking an obvious Town player," but that's a really bad argument, especially since I literally voted EuchreJack and explicitly stated that I didn't think they were scum. So, you'd have double the reason to vote me instead, yes?The same thing it is every Day: Try toOK but you're not doing that. You're playing entitled.take over the worldfind the scum.
However, my feeling is that you're trying to avoid voting me in an effort to not draw attention to yourself, which explains voting for BluarianKnight (bandwagon vote), pocketing, and buddying up to EuchreJack. You're also avoiding OMGUSing me, but I think that's because you're a little scared of going up against me because I effectively nailed you as scum on your first post and that's an entirely terrifying prospect to deal with.
Honestly, I'd suggest convincing me that I'm tunneling on you because your playstyle is unknown and therefore I'm unaware of your meta tells, but I don't think that covers for the fact that your arguments for voting BK feel fake and still require using a defense that isn't a feasible excuse since EuchreJack didn't effectively prove themselves Town until after the big post, unless you're saying another post effectively proved EuchreJack to be Town, but I don't feel like giving you the benefit of the doubt in that particular case.
Slowfire ReadsAdditionally, your reads are below average for what I expect from you. BluarianKnight? Seriously? From you? L.O.L. Your justification for the scummiest player is an OMGUS and a bandwagon, and not me, the person who literally threatened to lie about inspect results?
TOWN
Prefuzek - Has developed a number of reads and voted players for actual reasons
Jim - Has a couple of cases (Tric, Prefuzek) can explain his reasoning; pretty OK for d1.
Fallacy - is currently in tunnelmode but is actually thinking about a case and thinks he's got something, which is more than can be said for some players
EuchreJack - Veering wildly and incomprehensibly about. Overcompensatory play. Not really sure what to think. Probably not actually scum.
Tric - A bit hard to understand, but has shown attention to detail in pursuit of Jack case.
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM
I also like that you're putting Toony in the scum-tier for doing the same shit you did. That seems a liiiiiittle project-y, don'tcha think?
Frankly, I don't believe this read list one bit. You feel like you're lying about that whole list.
notquitethere. So, I'll put my money where my mouth is.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:15:08 am
EuchreRegarding NQT: They have claimed some sort of Pro-Town Power role, so I'd strongly advise against lynching.notquitethere We can't kill him yet even if we wanted to, because "might" be helpfulAll town have potential pro-town powers. That's the whole idea with the items questing. I'm not claiming to be anything more extraordinary than anyone else. I have since claimed my item: anti-curse scroll. Limited use. Might have something better tomorrow. I shouldn't be launched today, but not for this reason.
@NQT: And what is the reason not to launch you? You've been playing extremely defensively, and done little to find scum. What use are you Town?
You're now my read as 3rd scummiest. FOS remains on you.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:20:43 am
You still haven't revealed this supposed link between us. And you really don't see it do you? What is the one thing in common my quotes of your posts have? It's not something that would reveal you to be town or scum, but it is a look into how I put you into a corner.Tric:Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?Why do you care if he sees it?
Now we start the bus...Objection! (https://youtu.be/fR4P8o95WPA)
My apologies, I had overlooked that in all the many questions being asked (or at least it seemed like a lot at the time, I'm not looking back there). The answer, of course, is that a single vote could NOT create a shortened day. I was simply putting down one vote, one opinion. Saying that I was willing to move on to day 2. As I have said in the past, this was a stupid thing to do, since as I've seen, there is certainly some benefit to letting the day drag on and on and on and on in order to obtain valuable info. For instance, I was only sorta sure you were scum at that time. Now I'm absolutely sure. Time to die Tric, and we'll have fun killing prefuzek tomorrow. And then we'll hopefully be rid of your team, but if not, we'll find the other connections. Time to die Tric. Your scum game is improving, but you slipped up.
You've slipped up Jack, gotten too eager to kill me. Did you even notice where I've been leading you all this time? Put simply, your willingness to kill me contradicts this key piece of evidence.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Put simply, by being willing to lynch me, your reasoning to risk a mafia NQT falls apart around you. The simple fact is, this is just an excuse. One you yourself just destroyed.
That being said, can you counter this now that you're sober? We had a good chain going before.
@Tric: I can't counter what I don't understand. I think drinking would actually help me understand that better, or maybe you could get me some of that stuff you're obviously smoking. Don't worry, my next post should "get the chain going again"...
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:25:13 am
To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)
@Tric: Why not go after NQT now? Am I really more dangerous to you than NQT?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:28:11 am
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 10:31:38 am
To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)? I don't understand your issue. I don't really care if you think I'm town because I don't think you're Town.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 10:47:58 am
To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)
@Tric: Why not go after NQT now? Am I really more dangerous to you than NQT?
It's tied to my plan. To be honest you being cornered right that is just good luck on my part, I was going down your posts from the beginning and asking questions of you, to see how you would respond to them. Then check and see if your reasoning stuck together or fell apart. Which the last post did.
Moving it on to this,
@Jim: Quick update - You're confirmed Town, and I'm waiting for you to determine whether Tric is Town or Scum. He's hurting my head.Do you trust Jim? And do you trust yourself? If these questions sound weird, don't worry, they are weird.
Yes, I am offloading the work of reading Tric's post to you. Sorry. But its not like I haven't done any work today...
I still want to see the connection between prez and I posted, if only at the end of the day, if that makes you more comfortable.
That said, NQT, I'll start on you after lunch. Not like you have many posts to go through, unlike Jack. I will start by saying this, minimal effort on those you don't care about, high effort in those you want to be lynched. This is a sign of the dreaded Focus Charts compared to your town General Breakdown Charts.
I don't think you are town, so I can't dismiss you as scum. Which makes thisTo note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)? I don't understand your issue. I don't really care if you think I'm town because I don't think you're Town.
Alright, Tric, I honestly don't want to engage with you on account of the whole... everything you do, but I'm gonna so I don't have to watch this nonsense keep going.very very useless as a thought experiment. You put two town reads, a slight townread, and a null read of mine and told me to pick which of them are scum. You see the issue there?
TricMagic, if you're not scum, then assume for a minute that I'm not scum (If you are scum, then this is already a known for you). Who are scum?
I'll be honest with you, it's not likely EuchreJack. It's also not likely BluarianKnight. So, you need to pick two from people that aren't included in us four. That means you gotta pick from Jim, FoU, NQT, ToonyMan, or prefuzek. And I'll add a caveat that it's also probably not FoU, just for complexity. You have to convince me on a pair from those four to make me shift my vote.
I am Town, and I do think you're playing better than usual, but I also think it's careful, and that's why I am cautious of you. So, make a good case for a pair from those four, or ignore me and grab from the three I shielded or whatever. I do not think the three I mentioned are scum, so it'll be harder to convince me.
Right now I'm gearing up for a NQT push now that I'm down with questioning Jack. Which was kinda the point of pressuring them, to see what stuck and what fell apart.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 10:48:25 am
To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)
@Tric: Why not go after NQT now? Am I really more dangerous to you than NQT?
It's tied to my plan. To be honest you being cornered right that is just good luck on my part, I was going down your posts from the beginning and asking questions of you, to see how you would respond to them. Then check and see if your reasoning stuck together or fell apart. Which the last post did.
Moving it on to this,@Jim: Quick update - You're confirmed Town, and I'm waiting for you to determine whether Tric is Town or Scum. He's hurting my head.Do you trust Jim? And do you trust yourself? If these questions sound weird, don't worry, they are weird.
Yes, I am offloading the work of reading Tric's post to you. Sorry. But its not like I haven't done any work today...
I still want to see the connection between prez and I posted, if only at the end of the day, if that makes you more comfortable.
That said, NQT, I'll start on you after lunch. Not like you have many posts to go through, unlike Jack. I will start by saying this, minimal effort on those you don't care about, high effort in those you want to be lynched. This is a sign of the dreaded Focus Charts compared to your town General Breakdown Charts.I don't think you are town, so I can't dismiss you as scum. Which makes thisTo note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)? I don't understand your issue. I don't really care if you think I'm town because I don't think you're Town.Alright, Tric, I honestly don't want to engage with you on account of the whole... everything you do, but I'm gonna so I don't have to watch this nonsense keep going.very very useless as a thought experiment. You put two town reads, a slight townread, and a null read of mine and told me to pick which of them are scum. You see the issue there?
TricMagic, if you're not scum, then assume for a minute that I'm not scum (If you are scum, then this is already a known for you). Who are scum?
I'll be honest with you, it's not likely EuchreJack. It's also not likely BluarianKnight. So, you need to pick two from people that aren't included in us four. That means you gotta pick from Jim, FoU, NQT, ToonyMan, or prefuzek. And I'll add a caveat that it's also probably not FoU, just for complexity. You have to convince me on a pair from those four to make me shift my vote.
I am Town, and I do think you're playing better than usual, but I also think it's careful, and that's why I am cautious of you. So, make a good case for a pair from those four, or ignore me and grab from the three I shielded or whatever. I do not think the three I mentioned are scum, so it'll be harder to convince me.
Right now I'm gearing up for a NQT push now that I'm done with questioning Jack. Which was kinda the point of pressuring them, to see what stuck and what fell apart.
(not down, done.)
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:56:13 am
Note: From here on out, this is cut & paste from Excel, so it will look a bit more mechanical. Sorry folks
From Most Town to Most Scum
EuchreJack Anyone who does not think they're the most absolute Town is CRAZY. See that Wall around the Town? I BUILT THAT.
Jim Groovester Commander Jim with his mighty dunce cap. If you read Jim's posting in this way, he's town
webadict Mr. Myagi to my skinny white ass, whooping me hard into shape. Big bulleye with the Paladin claim too. And I can see the scumhunting
BluarianKnight Finally hunting Scum. Meta is that Blue does in fact take time to start up, irregardless of alignment Promote to Null
FallacyofUrist Kindness does not mean townie, but not seeing any red flags of scummy. Giving more detail, not actively scumhunting but rather reactively scumhunting
notquitethere We can't kill him yet even if we wanted to, because "might" be helpful…but has not specified. God, I know what this means, so going Null and shutting up. We'll see if the claim gets made before end of day
ToonyMan Find any good scum yet, ToonyMan? No? Then here you are. I do in fact believe ToonyMan's claim of exhaustion, yet being on the winning team should invigorate him a bit. Should I like that our reads are similar?
prefuzek Looks very much like pushing ANYONE to look Town rather than being Town. Bussing Tric won't change the connection between you two!
TricMagic Jumps to lynch me the second I claim to have proof of being scum with prefuzek, Seems to think I'm the biggest threat. Connection?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:57:17 am
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 11:04:28 am
You put two town reads, a slight townread, and a null read of mine and told me to pick which of them are scum. You see the issue there?True, but if you're not scum, then the remaining scum are in that pile, so you have to pick from there or I'm swapping my vote back to you. I know you think the people I've removed are the remaining scum, but you also ignored the concept that you were allowed to pick them as well because you have a choice. You just have to remember that I'm not going to believe your choices from that group easily unless you have solid reasoning.
Right now I'm gearing up for a NQT push now that I'm down with questioning Jack. Which was kinda the point of pressuring them, to see what stuck and what fell apart.
I removed them because I'm more than 90% sure the people I removed are not scum.
Also, if you're going after NQT, who was in the list, doesn't that mean you suspect them? Or... what? Also, your Jack push was fucking stupid, pointless, and thread-consuming.
Wanna counter-offer something? Give me some people to make groups out of? Wanna do something besides prattle?
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 11:06:57 am
Updated Reads List!You are the most swing, and your fishing is always going to be suspicious. Is there a mechanical difference between a thief and a merchant? (Getting more dammed info to read you was rather important. That and the obvious of me being the lynch means I need to question someone, and you were the only one I could. Web is just paladin strats right now, so that wouldn't work. I really don't want to die day one. Day two is fine, try and get a gun to shoot me with or something.)
TricMagic Jumps to lynch me the second I claim to have proof of being scum with prefuzek, Seems to think I'm the biggest threat. Connection?
A reminder I've had my vote on him before I went after Jack. Getting proper info out of someone's post is never useless web, and it's that sort of stuff and discouraging certain interactions that makes you scummy.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 11:15:12 am
Slowfire ReadsRight, before I get started, what is this NQT? Blue is voting me cause of meta-excuses, that I'm playing too well. Which really tells me you haven't read the thread, which makes the whole readlist suspect. Your initial toony vote didn't really have a reason either, just pressure that never went anywhere.
TOWN
Toony - Still hasn't done anything yet. Some post-comp fatigue understandable, but literally all Toony has done is sheep Jim once and then complain when players town read him. Happy birthday btw!
Webadict - Has no real reason for his Prefuzek vote, which he flops off of to join a Tric wagon unexplainedly. Made a weird claim to fakeclaim mafia result on D2.
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
SCUM
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 11:36:19 am
To note web, I don't trust you are town, but scum seeking long-term cred. Go for the obvious lynches, why not the ones that aren't as obvious? (Like NQT, who I'll get to after I am done with Jack.)
@Tric: Why not go after NQT now? Am I really more dangerous to you than NQT?
It's tied to my plan. To be honest you being cornered right that is just good luck on my part, I was going down your posts from the beginning and asking questions of you, to see how you would respond to them. Then check and see if your reasoning stuck together or fell apart. Which the last post did.
Moving it on to this,@Jim: Quick update - You're confirmed Town, and I'm waiting for you to determine whether Tric is Town or Scum. He's hurting my head.Do you trust Jim? And do you trust yourself? If these questions sound weird, don't worry, they are weird.
Yes, I am offloading the work of reading Tric's post to you. Sorry. But its not like I haven't done any work today...
I still want to see the connection between prez and I posted, if only at the end of the day, if that makes you more comfortable.
That said, NQT, I'll start on you after lunch. Not like you have many posts to go through, unlike Jack. I will start by saying this, minimal effort on those you don't care about, high effort in those you want to be lynched. This is a sign of the dreaded Focus Charts compared to your town General Breakdown Charts.
@Tric: I trust that Jim is Town and that you are scum. Disengaging from me, whom you can't seem to get the votes to lynch, and moving on to NQT, whom everyone is voting, makes you even more scummy. You should have answered my question, not jump ship to NQT.
+1You put two town reads, a slight townread, and a null read of mine and told me to pick which of them are scum. You see the issue there?True, but if you're not scum, then the remaining scum are in that pile, so you have to pick from there or I'm swapping my vote back to you. I know you think the people I've removed are the remaining scum, but you also ignored the concept that you were allowed to pick them as well because you have a choice. You just have to remember that I'm not going to believe your choices from that group easily unless you have solid reasoning.
Right now I'm gearing up for a NQT push now that I'm down with questioning Jack. Which was kinda the point of pressuring them, to see what stuck and what fell apart.
I removed them because I'm more than 90% sure the people I removed are not scum.
Also, if you're going after NQT, who was in the list, doesn't that mean you suspect them? Or... what? Also, your Jack push was fucking stupid, pointless, and thread-consuming.
Wanna counter-offer something? Give me some people to make groups out of? Wanna do something besides prattle?
Updated Reads List!You are the most swing, and your fishing is always going to be suspicious. Is there a mechanical difference between a thief and a merchant? (Getting more dammed info to read you was rather important. That and the obvious of me being the lynch means I need to question someone, and you were the only one I could. Web is just paladin strats right now, so that wouldn't work. I really don't want to die day one. Day two is fine, try and get a gun to shoot me with or something.)
TricMagic Jumps to lynch me the second I claim to have proof of being scum with prefuzek, Seems to think I'm the biggest threat. Connection?
A reminder I've had my vote on him before I went after Jack. Getting proper info out of someone's post is never useless web, and it's that sort of stuff and discouraging certain interactions that makes you scummy.
A reminder that Tric went after me the second after I claimed to have something connecting Tric and prefuzek. Now we're getting the excuse that it was all just to stay alive. And yes, there is a mechanical difference between a person that STEALS items and person that TRADES items. Additionally, the Thief takes items from OTHER PLAYERS whereas the Merchant exchanges items with THE ITEM POOL. I don't like this attempt by Tric to pretend to be a Thief, especially since I've previously mentioned that a Thief would be useful if Town.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 11:51:26 am
Post by: ToonyMan on May 30, 2021, 11:58:11 am
ToonyHmmm that's true. Jack and Jim gave reads back to back right before you. Did you feel compelled from that?@NQT:I wanted to give myself an early appraisal of the players. I wasn't the first player to give reads: do you think it was extraordinary that Jack and Jim gave reads before me?
Why did you give a full player list of reads already?
@TricMagic:
Dude you're driving me crazy, why are you town reading me? You can post walls of text for Jack, but won't answer me.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 11:59:08 am
Hello everyone. I'm pleased to be back in a Roguelike again, and pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer this time.Starting post, no rvs vote.
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?
Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?
... Looking at this again, it's amazingly useless, isn't it? Like, the wrenching gut feeling that this post has no substance at all. We'll see if it ever went anywhere as we go through, though if NQT is Scum, Fal's answer makes it unlikely Fal is the team member. Then again, WIFOM.
Are you a sane killer nqt?
I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.This comes off Web's claim, and my claim, and after this Jack's claim. Lot of early claims, nothing from you cause you want to wait till day 3. Are you a theif, or a transmuter. Or perhaps even a paladin.
For those following along at home, I picked Paladin when I played this game last: as a serial killer it was a no-brainer. I'm undecided whether it's a scummy pick per se. Having an inspect scroll as town is a potential game changer. Bit less neat if you get NK'd N1 for claiming paladin (but I'm sure Web knows what he's doing, I can think of at least three possibilities: less said the better).
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?
Why is it that not saying why web is claiming so early better? Granted, you did say you spun the wheel, so you could be anything if you are telling the truth.
Why ask blue this question though?
Fal also claims archeologist. And votes web for reasons. RVS likely.
EuchreJackPage four, near the bottom, read list. This game started on page two. You simply shouldn't have the info needed to make concrete judgements now. It is also very obvious in comparison to the others that yours is far more comprehensive.notquitethere How do I play this game? Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.For the most part, it's a normal mafia game: use the day game to find scum. Every day you'll get a random object from a quest (unless you raid the central reserve of items instead). These items give you new abilities to use at night.all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection.You can't give items to other players, read the OP.
Also, to address the points worth addressing:
- I wasn't suggesting a no lynch, I was seeing what Fallacy thought of the idea.
- Paladins are like cops, usually you don't want the cops claiming D1!
prefuzekNotquitethere: How do you tell the difference between scum and bad town?Sometimes they do look very similar, but scum have additional tells in how they interact with their buddies, they inspect differently, and use their abilities differently too. Scum have an agenda, bad town don't.
Quickfire reads:
Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum
Looking at it, I'm a scumlean, blue isn't. Wouldn't I make more sense to push if you thought that? Rather than vote Toony for not pushing quickly when the game had just started up.
Of note,
You don't think paladins should claim day one, Toony does. You could have pushed an obvious lie, but instead you voted due to toony not pushing anyone yet. This contradicts that, it's more general, but he does believe others should claim.I don't want there to be a misunderstanding down the line. I think actual Paladins should claim now if they want to be believed later.Scumpoints for going back on your word.Toonyman: Did you pick Priest?No. And just to be clear, I'm not a Paladin either. I was joking earlier with Web.
Note, Toony did do an RVS first post, though with a question.
Next.
Page 8, two posts back to back. Based on not being on PC, these can count as one, bringing your post number down to 5.
PfpSee pink for comments.
Just popping quickly with a couple of quick thoughts (I'll address thread properly when I get back on PC):
- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.
2: I like waffles, but not the type web serves. What do you think of web now NQT?
- What the hell is Euchre doing shortening or unshortening? I like short snappy days too but this is incomprehensible. My theory: he's a jester. Last game showed there could be 3rd parties not mentioned in the OP. Could be same here. Someone got a better theory?
1: Jack being Jack. Which his previous posts I brought out of him would support if he's town. Jack is looking hard at those they deem scum, and thought a snap day would be better. Time will tell if he is town or scum.
- can I get a vote count? I might be in the lead which is Not Good.
3: Feeling pressured NQT? The day ends Tuesday, so we got time. All the time in the world at this point where you made the post on page 8.
- Not sure why Fallacy doesn't think my reads were "quickfire". I didn't agonise over each one, I just made a snap judgement on what I'd seen in the thread so far. Definitely a nonsense push here.
4: Haha, no.
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
What consideration did you put in here? Granted, I happen to agree, so does Jack and Web. And Toony.. He's really town MVP for sheperd huh?
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
This isn't an indication of town, so no. Not like you could push a paladin to lynch without also being one, so makes sense you put no thought here.
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
Not an immediate indication of town. And you know how many other people claimed? A lot of people.
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
What does norm policing mean anyway? You remind him of the Nightmare NQT, and I'm inclined to agree. Just ignore that will you?
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Blue is freaking quite at the start of the day. And into the next till the first major post being reads. I'll look at this later, as this could be separation. Or setting up a lynch later, needs more thought.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Hi NQT! Hope you enjoy a moony-style takedown.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
The reason is 'RVS'. Yeah, this isn't a case of bussing, I don't think. You are having less thought down here.
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
You Notquitethere, just you. Just reading this line is painful.
Of note, it's at this point after Jack relating you to the Nightmare that set my vote on you.
Of note, you are very scared of being in the lead on votes, why?
Also, Fallacy is saying Jim's list is unbiased... that seems a really weird thing to town read someone for. Reading alignment in posts is showing a bias in favour of some players and against others. Being indifferent isn't a town tell!It also isn't a scum tell. Much information off of two pages of posts and no thought put into those that did have info is an informed-tell.
...
End of the posts. After I asked for lurker track. You could have taken more time to post some pushes.
Pfp, busy weekend, but game is paused over weekend anyway. Will post properly later or tomorrow.-You could make a chart on everyone's current suspicions. I am fairly sure you used that one before. Wanting to wait is wierd?
Just a quick pop in to say:
- Tric, charts are for D2+. There's been no flips yet!
- Someone said something about a curse: I have a scroll of curse curing, so if I die and some needs it, raid the stack for it.
- Jack, scum hunting should pick up sk's etc. Focusing on 3rd parties when we don't know if they exist is a bad idea.
- Can everyone on the Tric wagon explain their case if they haven't already?
-I don't think anyone ever said anything about a curse, but there isn't a good reason to say that given that is a valid target for a theif.
-There is the possibility of a third party, however recent talk with jack and going through this have greatly disillusioned me of this notion. Though I would not discount Mafia-ally.
-Explain the cases, make the connections, Determine who is town and who is scum on it. This post reads as a pop-up, one of those ones that obscure what you are reading, just to hide the fact you really aren't paying attention due to busyness and mafianess.
So to make it clear, Notquitethere, how do you plead? Here, or Guilty?
3 ninja. I'm done with NQT's pre-lurkertrack posts.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 12:07:46 pm
As I read it, a priest gets a single-use item to protect someone else from death. Given the existence of bypass roles though, not sure how useful that would have been for me.
Also, don't think I don't notice you skipping the question of whether you trust yourself Jack.
Also, I'm not a Thief, I'm a Bard. And to uncross your thought of what set me off on you.
@Toaster: If a player chooses Random, their random starter item is upgraded a rarity level. If that random is Bard, they get a random uncommon in addition to a random common. Which of the TWO starter items of the Bard gets upgraded?ITEMFISHIJNG<CLASSFISHING. Those who would claim have long done so Jack. As of before I went off on you, I had no clue if you were town, and were thinking you were in fact a mafia-ally putting things out there for scum to make use of. You want to know my items, why? I said I'd tell you day two, and still you go off on me, trying to link me to the one person no one has a meta on. It's ridiculous.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 12:11:15 pm
@TricMagic:
Dude you're driving me crazy, why are you town reading me? You can post walls of text for Jack, but won't answer me.
Pretty much entirely instinct Toony. Instinct, and not wanting to drive myself crazy questioning everyone and everything. Having two town reads this early helps with sorting everyone else. And given web's gambit, it helps a lot.
Could change, but you haven't sent up any red flags, then again, your posts have been short and sweet for the most part. (as I remember)
I've also been focused on nailing scum to the wall, and NQT has been looking that way for a while. With Jack done with, I can at least trust he isn't an ally at the moment, most likely town focusing on those he deems as scum. Something I said in my wall against NQT's 5 pre-lurkertrack posts.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 12:29:07 pm
@Tric: I won't be sure that you're scum till you flip, but you just keep giving me more and more reasons to suspect you. Your corpse flipping town is probably the only evidence that you're town that I'd accept. Anything else I'd suspect as a smokescreen.
Your class can be confirmed purely by the number of items that you have. My question about their tier is just my trying to speculate what you might have. Some items have abilities that can be used during the day, and some have passive abilities that are always on. I'm not surprised you didn't know that...
To build tomorrow's train on prefuzek, he's the only one that would be trying to save you as a scum partner. Everyone else would have started bussing you much, much sooner (like at the beginning of the game, especially if it was Blue).
I'm genuinely impressed that you know what a Priest does. Did you have to ask on scumchat?
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 12:30:59 pm
I change my mind on you Tric. I think you're Town now. I'll explain later why. Maybe. I might just be crazy for thinking so. Oh well.
But you still gotta pick from groups for me. If you gotta bring them in from oitside groups, you better explain why. I will shield you if you do.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 12:47:47 pm
I'm genuinely impressed that you know what a Priest does. Did you have to ask on scumchat?
No, given I looked at the classes at the beginning of the game. Didn't you? Still nothing on my wierd question, but that's to be expected I guess.
Web, right now I find NQT to be a centerpin. Do you know if he'd coach from the back as scum? From this, I can conclude three options. Option A, the bold one, Prefuzek. This is mostly the outlier however, and least likely from NQT's scum list, it's a good choice to force a mislynch if he gets lynched.
Option B, the Fallacy. A fairly general null this whole game so far for me, though NQT says he's doing better than others.
Option C, the Webadict Conspiracy: You and NQT are playing games. Note this is also unlikely long-term, and pointless to consider given you will out yourself at some point. Too risky a game for scum to play, though as a bus it would be genius if you could stay alive as confirmed town.
Option D. The Blue. Blue and NQT are in fact teamed up together, but real-life means NQT isn't contributing as much. Falls up there with Prefuzek though, as NQT would be in a more coaching role. Really dependent on Blue's posts going forward, but unlikely.
Option E, the ToonyMan. NQT and Toony are both busy with real-life(And birthday for Toony), resulting in a low-impact game from scum. This naturally means Toony isn't sending up red flags due to not enough time to play. (This is contingent on my gut instinct being wrong.)
Of these, Option B is most likely, followed by C, A, E, and D.
I have the begging of a headache. I just don't see Toony as scum, nor do I see a Blue/NQT team up. That thought doesn't make any sense in my head, so best to dismiss that option altogether.
Jim at this point is conf-town by majority, I think. If anyone has a dissenting opinion on that, feel free to bring it up.
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 01:01:02 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 30, 2021, 01:37:05 pm
If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 02:01:47 pm
Are there any worlds where NQT is not a part of the scumteam?One where you are the leader of the scumteam, and this is all one incredible gambit.
I don't really think there are though. He just ticks too many red flags, and no green.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 02:02:14 pm
Post by: Toaster on May 30, 2021, 02:40:32 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: FallacyofUrist, webadict, TricMagic
TricMagic: ToonyMan, EuchreJack
prefuzek: Jim Groovester
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, notquitethere
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting: BluarianKnight
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 10 PM EST.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 02:44:48 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 30, 2021, 02:57:04 pm
I am unmoved by the 'NQT reads list bad' arguments I'm seeing but it feels like that's the meat of the case.
@Jim: Why do you think Tric is town? I'd really like to defer to your wisdom and experience, but the fact that the very second I suggested I have evidence linking him and prefuzek, he starts trying to get me lynched. I mean, why should a town player want to do that?
And the insistence that I must reveal it NOW, IMMEDIATELY, sounds like desperate scum wanting to know where they screwed up so they can "talk it away".
I believe I have adequately explained my opinions about TricMagic in my recent posts so you can go look at them.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
. . .
Jack's a new player - While he's still seeming super scummy, a lot of his actions to me tell me of a town!player still trying to figure out what they're doing - I did a lot of the same stupid mistakes in Supernatural 10. I don't want to vote a player just because he's learning, so I backed off.
As for Tric, his play felt super off to me - Far different, so I thought he was scum.
Players who are learning can still be scum.
Are you giving them slack just to give them slack? That would be concerning. If their skill factors into your read on them, then fair enough. There's a subtle distinction that I'm trying to get out of you that I don't think I'm effectively expressing.
Dumb question - is an SK a possibility? I know it's been mentioned, but a quick look-through made me think it might not be.
If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.
There was one in Roguelike 6 and Roguelike 5. There were two scumteams in Roguelike 3 which is sort of similar to having an SK.
Slowfire Reads
heh
very very useless as a thought experiment. You put two town reads, a slight townread, and a null read of mine and told me to pick which of them are scum. You see the issue there?
Right now I'm gearing up for a NQT push now that I'm down with questioning Jack. Which was kinda the point of pressuring them, to see what stuck and what fell apart.
You know I actually like effort!TricMagic a lot when he makes an appearance. I'd like to see more of this concise, efficient communications and response out of you.
- can I get a vote count? I might be in the lead which is Not Good.
3: Feeling pressured NQT? The day ends Tuesday, so we got time. All the time in the world at this point where you made the post on page 8.
I didn't read most of your post but this did catch my eye and is a decent observation. Worrying about being the most voted player four days before the deadline is a little off.
I change my mind on you Tric. I think you're Town now. I'll explain later why. Maybe. I might just be crazy for thinking so. Oh well.
You can't do this, webadict! You're upending EuchreJack's world that he carefully constructed by sheeping off other players!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 30, 2021, 03:22:43 pm
Uh huh...Jack and Tric are definitely not MvM at least.@TricMagic:Pretty much entirely instinct Toony. Instinct, and not wanting to drive myself crazy questioning everyone and everything. Having two town reads this early helps with sorting everyone else. And given web's gambit, it helps a lot.
Dude you're driving me crazy, why are you town reading me? You can post walls of text for Jack, but won't answer me.
Could change, but you haven't sent up any red flags, then again, your posts have been short and sweet for the most part. (as I remember)
I've also been focused on nailing scum to the wall, and NQT has been looking that way for a while. With Jack done with, I can at least trust he isn't an ally at the moment, most likely town focusing on those he deems as scum. Something I said in my wall against NQT's 5 pre-lurkertrack posts.
Why are you voting NQT if you suspect Fallacy more? Or at least...I think you suspect FoU more.Are there any worlds where NQT is not a part of the scumteam?One where you are the leader of the scumteam, and this is all one incredible gambit.
I don't really think there are though. He just ticks too many red flags, and no green.
Post by: TricMagic on May 30, 2021, 03:30:18 pm
I may be poking Jack about me having something useful tonight and them saying NQT having something useful if they survive to day 3. (lost my train of thought.)
Well, point is NQT says that, but doesn't really have the posts to make them living that long useful to town. Hence NQT being either a thief or transmutor. The other useful classes are one-shot or passive luck.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 30, 2021, 08:41:41 pm
Dumb question - is an SK a possibility? I know it's been mentioned, but a quick look-through made me think it might not be.I'm going to go over this, since this topic has reoccured several times, and the scum are capable of using the possibility of third parties to disorient and confuse the town.
If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.
Ahem.
This is a nine-player game. If there's a two person mafia team and a single SK, that's three anti-town and six town. Furthermore, the SK must have some means of killing to be an SK. Suppose a town mislynch Day 1, then the mafia and the SK each select a townie to kill Night 1. That leads us to three town, three anti-town Day 2. So, no, an SK and a mafia team would be horrendously unbalanced, and I trust Toaster to not do that. Even if you limit the SK's killing potential in some way, it's still a really rough prospect.
However, not all past Roguelike games have had a default scumteam. Two opposed anti-town third parties is also possible. For example, 1 SK and 1 cult leader with a 1-shot bulletproof. I say this because I know someone will point it out if I don't. I'd rate the chance of this as... unlikely but possible - and we should not assume a more esoteric configuration of the anti-town players without significant evidence involved.
So I'm still going with the 'traditional scumteam of two players' theory. If you have such significant evidence that we're dealing with something odder, let us all know quickly.
Post by: webadict on May 30, 2021, 09:08:15 pm
Mmm... Here's my thoughts.I'm genuinely impressed that you know what a Priest does. Did you have to ask on scumchat?
No, given I looked at the classes at the beginning of the game. Didn't you? Still nothing on my wierd question, but that's to be expected I guess.
Web, right now I find NQT to be a centerpin. Do you know if he'd coach from the back as scum? From this, I can conclude three options. Option A, the bold one, Prefuzek. This is mostly the outlier however, and least likely from NQT's scum list, it's a good choice to force a mislynch if he gets lynched.
Option B, the Fallacy. A fairly general null this whole game so far for me, though NQT says he's doing better than others.
Option C, the Webadict Conspiracy: You and NQT are playing games. Note this is also unlikely long-term, and pointless to consider given you will out yourself at some point. Too risky a game for scum to play, though as a bus it would be genius if you could stay alive as confirmed town.
Option D. The Blue. Blue and NQT are in fact teamed up together, but real-life means NQT isn't contributing as much. Falls up there with Prefuzek though, as NQT would be in a more coaching role. Really dependent on Blue's posts going forward, but unlikely.
Option E, the ToonyMan. NQT and Toony are both busy with real-life(And birthday for Toony), resulting in a low-impact game from scum. This naturally means Toony isn't sending up red flags due to not enough time to play. (This is contingent on my gut instinct being wrong.)
Of these, Option B is most likely, followed by C, A, E, and D.
I have the begging of a headache. I just don't see Toony as scum, nor do I see a Blue/NQT team up. That thought doesn't make any sense in my head, so best to dismiss that option altogether.
Jim at this point is conf-town by majority, I think. If anyone has a dissenting opinion on that, feel free to bring it up.
Option B:
I don't think B is correct. Not because FoU doesn't have scum equity, but because FoU doesn't have nearly enough scum equity. FoU's cases seem genuine, and I'm not really seeing the scumminess that you're seeing. It's why I have to discount B being possible. B relies on FoU being scum, which doesn't seem viable at this point.
Looking at the FoU/NQT interactions leads me to believe that W/W is not possible unless FoU went hard for the bus early. FoU's case on NQT stems from NQT not putting in the effort in their early reads (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283183#msg8283183), which is a pretty dangerous game to be playing with a partner. NQT, on the other hand, is heavily on the defensive, and poking holes in FoU's towniness as well (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283262#msg8283262). If they're both scum, they've really made it look like FoU is Town, and that seems... silly?
I'd say that chances of FoU/NQT are extremely low. Like, 1% low.
Option C:
Obviously, options C is not correct because I am Town. I won't bother trying to defend option C because I 100% know it is false.
Option A:
I do believe Option A is possible, and of those listed, it's the one I believe the most likely to be correct. prefuzek does not seem town to me, and while I realize this is the one you believe is least likely to be possible, there's a lot of merit to it.
NQT/prefuzek interactions involve NQT reading prefuzek first as townlean/nullish (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283125#msg8283125), prefuzek listing NQT as null (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283312#msg8283312), NQT chainsawdefending prefuzek (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283745#msg8283745), NQT moving prefuzek to TOP TOWN (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283748#msg8283748), and... Wow, they have been REALLY weirdly not communicative, especially for NQT to move them to their top Town read. Honestly, that's not necessarily highly suspect, but it does raise lots of questions. Like, if NQT is scum, you pretty much have to look hard at prefuzek.
I'd say chances are high on NQT/prefuzek, like 60%.
Option E
ToonyMan x NQT? Hm, that's a tough one. ToonyMan has been making potshots at NQT for most of the day. If anything, ToonyMan x web has far higher scum equity, since we've sorta avoided each other all day. I feel like I'll get shit for this take, but my feelings are that ToonyMan has taken a back seat specifically because they chose Priest, and therefore, they're trying to avoid looking super obvious. It makes sense to me that that's the case, at least, because ToonyMan avoided claiming Paladin with me, likely in an effort to force me to be the target of all the attacks, and then to protect me. Yeah, yeah, it's an obvious plan, and I'd see it coming all day, so that's why I'm pointing it out.
So, ToonyMan and NQT as W/W has very, very low equity. With ToonyMan and NQT not being active, it feels like they'd be pushing each other pretty hard in scumchat, and then ToonyMan would probably decide to bus them later than the very beginning. ToonyMan pushed poked earyl, so... It's just not really there?
I think this is more likely than the FoU pairing, but like 5% chance.
Option D
Tough one for me. If BluarianKnight is scum, then their scum game improved pretty drastically. This pair seem doable, since BluarianKnight is mimicking a lot of my cases, but BluarianKnight seems to be aiming pretty hard at bussing NQT here, and from my knowledge of their playstyle, they tend to be a bit more protective of their teammates, giving them the benefit of the doubt. Also, BluarianKnight doesn't lash out as Town when they're under suspicion, but they do so a lot as scum.
Given that, their interactions together could be putting each other at arm's length, but... eh. I'd be willing to even say this is more likely than ToonyMan/NQT, but that's if I give a lot of leeway to how well BluarianKnight can play.
I'd say... probably around 4% likely. Just... Just not feeling it.
But, you gave me what I wanted, so if we could all stop voting TricMagic and vote out NQT, that'd be great. Let's go!
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:28:33 pm
UNVOTE
VOTE Notquitethere
Why am I so convinced that NQT is a serial killer? Ironically, Tric and Web's analysis, since the most likely outcome from my perspective at least is that NQT is working alone. Just look at Tric's response. He gives lots of options, but they're all crap! Also, add up Web's percentages (they don't add up to 100). Web is saying some other option is 30% likely. I'm saying that option is that NQT is solo scum, and I rate it more than 30%.
Or maybe NQT is just hiding their partner quite well.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:32:29 pm
Do we get to know how many of each alignment exist?
Also, everyone should chose Paladin and lie about choosing Paladin. Except maybe Web if they want a handicap. :P
No. Roguelikes tend to be... creative with alignment distribution, so I would suggest against making assumptions.
@Blue2: What are your reads on Tric and NQT? Also, please update your reads list if you feel they have changed.
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 10:43:29 pm
@Jim: You've voting prefuzek. But you're not trying to build a real case against them. Stop being lazy and get to work. Maybe you can get Town to vote prefuzek, if that is your true intent.
Don't make me downgrade you. I mean, you'd still doing a good job pissing me off, which totally plays to your Town meta, and you're being lazy, which also plays into your town meta. But trying to protect NQT without actually attacking the person you're voting? I thought Town Jim was better than that...
Post by: ToonyMan on May 30, 2021, 10:58:40 pm
You're crazy if you think I'd willingly pick Saint after playing as a doctor 80% of the time recently.
@Jack:
@Jim: You've voting prefuzek. But you're not trying to build a real case against them. Stop being lazy and get to work. Maybe you can get Town to vote prefuzek, if that is your true intent.Damn Jack we can't all be complete typing monsters like you. It's a holiday weekend!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 30, 2021, 11:06:43 pm
FoU is right. We're either dealing with 2 mafia or maybe two independent third-party factions like 2 SKs. I'm going to assume two mafia for now since that's easier to find and probably more likely.Dumb question - is an SK a possibility? I know it's been mentioned, but a quick look-through made me think it might not be.I'm going to go over this, since this topic has reoccured several times, and the scum are capable of using the possibility of third parties to disorient and confuse the town.
If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.
[...]
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 11:12:30 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 30, 2021, 11:16:23 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 11:17:37 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 30, 2021, 11:18:43 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on May 30, 2021, 11:26:20 pm
FoU falls into the case of not really having any flags, itself a flag for me. But that data is at least there, NQT throws up red flags without any green ones, and has very little to go off of given I could go over all of the posts pretty quick.So NQT is scum for not being active on D1?
I may be poking Jack about me having something useful tonight and them saying NQT having something useful if they survive to day 3. (lost my train of thought.)
Well, point is NQT says that, but doesn't really have the posts to make them living that long useful to town. Hence NQT being either a thief or transmutor. The other useful classes are one-shot or passive luck.
I've seen NQT this lurky plenty of times on D1 as town.
FoU is scum because they're null to you?
Have they actually done anything that bothers you? I like their case on NQT, does it make any sense at all to vote NQT alongside FoU if you don't like either player? Doesn't that mean FoU would be bussing NQT? I find that an extremely poor plan of action in a power heavy game like this when you'd likely be the only scum left after.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 31, 2021, 12:37:49 am
Blue, are you still down for voting Tric, like in this post? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283490#msg8283490)
Nah - I'm honestly feeling NQT as scum, with Prez as his partner.
He's barely interacted with him - only one interaction, and that was the same post of his Quickfire reads that seemed to put barely effort in some, and a lot of effort in others, like Pref. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283125#msg8283125) Albeit, FoU already pointed this out in his own post. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283762#msg8283762) Something that hasn't been answered - and feels to me will be ignored if not brought up;
But since Prefuzek had so much justification in the first reads list, I have to ask. Why wasn't Prefuzek your towniest pick in the Quickfire reads? You clearly had more justification for him than Jim.
This was right after his 'slowfire' reads, which put Pref right at the top of the list..
Continuing my beliefs at the bottom for my vote.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
. . .
Jack's a new player - While he's still seeming super scummy, a lot of his actions to me tell me of a town!player still trying to figure out what they're doing - I did a lot of the same stupid mistakes in Supernatural 10. I don't want to vote a player just because he's learning, so I backed off.
As for Tric, his play felt super off to me - Far different, so I thought he was scum.
Players who are learning can still be scum.
Are you giving them slack just to give them slack? That would be concerning. If their skill factors into your read on them, then fair enough. There's a subtle distinction that I'm trying to get out of you that I don't think I'm effectively expressing.
There's a reason he's still null to me.
While he's flailing a lot - will say down below my opinions separately of his recent crap - he's also playing far too poorly for me to think a scum-team would even LET him - or at least try to distance themselves as far away as possible.
His newness does influence my decision somewhat - but it isn't a go-all-be-all. He's flailing, without plan or reason, but he has enough knowledge to shoot out claims and try to scumhunt. He's running in the dark, it seems - and even a newbie scum player would do better in my eyes.
Scum is easier to play as a noobie - you know who you're up against. You can play folks up against each other. As town, you have no idea who you can trust - Euchre is paranoid, jumping from target to target, seemingly switching targets constantly, basking up trees. Making a lot of mistakes along the way, but this level of play feels like newbie!town, which is why he's null. I won't confirm him as town with just that though, so null.
Dumb question - is an SK a possibility? I know it's been mentioned, but a quick look-through made me think it might not be.
If we've scum team and a SK, it changes things considerably then just a scum team.
There was one in Roguelike 6 and Roguelike 5. There were two scumteams in Roguelike 3 which is sort of similar to having an SK.
Ah - I see. That leads me to my next question well;
Fine, fine, let's kill the SK first. For all we know, NQT could be something truly awful, like a poisoner, an arsonist, or something else that gets worse with time.Why do you think NQT is a SK?
@Blue2: What are your reads on Tric and NQT? Also, please update your reads list if you feel they have changed.Tric is slowly pushing himself to town to me - my only main push was him being far better, and looking at NQT, he and Pref really haven't done much together past confirm each other as town or null, even though they've both got similar reads-list, and voting!
It's almost like they've got a chat just for themselves.. a scum chat, perhaps?
Anyhow - I really, really need to go to bed.
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 04:51:28 am
This reads thing is really rather tedious. I can't see how you can honestly believe writing a few extra words to describe my opinion of one player over another is at all indicative of anything. Both prefuzek and Euchre were making "norm policing" votes which was worth commenting on: I don't think they're good votes, but I don't think they're scum indicative either.
I'm not discrediting you, you're discrediting yourself by insisting on this absurd line of inquiry.
Ultimately how town I think town players are is pretty arbitrary. I downgraded Prefuzek for having a "norm policing" case in my quickfire reads, upgraded him in my slowfire reads for his more developed play by that point.
Tell me, do you really think any of this is alignment indicative?
Web,
I wanted to see what you actually do tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, I would have voted you. You can't make the argument "I'm scum, why aren't you voting me" that makes no sense. As for Toony-- he's been able to post more frequently than I have but has managed to do less. Do you like his posts?
How about Blu, you like Blu's posts then?
Euchre,
I've looked at all the players and concisely explained what I liked or didn't like about their cases. That's more than can be said for Web or Toony or Blu who have struggled to give reasons for their votes. What do you think about Web's bizarre threats to Prefuzek?
I don't personally think an SK is likely in a 9 player game.
Tric,
Right, before I get started, what is this NQT? Blue is voting me cause of meta-excuses, that I'm playing too well. Which really tells me you haven't read the thread, which makes the whole readlist suspect. Your initial toony vote didn't really have a reason either, just pressure that never went anywhere.When Blu voted you they gave no reasons. And I explained my Toony vote clearly at the time, that they had posted a bunch and hadn't done anything. This is still true.
In your big post you've made too many questions, I don't want to waste my morning trawling through all that. I will say that, by "norm policing" I mean, that there are mafia culture norms of the forum like "don't rolefish" or "don't claim everything D1" or "don't vote someone immediately after they vote you" that aren't always particularly alignment indicative, but that players like to enforce for the good of the game.
As for charts, before my read I did of course tabulate everyone's votes, which is something I almost always do, but the day's not over so it's too early to share.
You've wasted a lot of time working out possible teams I could be in, as I'm not actually scum.
Toony,
I didn't feel compelled by Jack or Jim's prior reads but it might have given me the idea to do my own. Why is Tric scum?
Jim,
Nobody likes being eliminated on D1, it's not alignment indicative to want to know the votes, is it?
Blu,
I haven't interacted much with Prefuzek as I don't think they're scum and it's only D1. I've barely interacted with you other than voting you, does that mean we're partners?
Prefuzek,
What do you think of Web and Blu's insistence that you're my scum partner?
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 05:04:25 am
- Tric is putting a lot of eggs into the one basket of reading me as scum, with all these team compositions; this makes me feel pretty good about Tric, as scum!Tric would know that that's a losing strategy: when I flip town, what's next for D2? A lot of wasted effort.
- Web and Toony are both pursuing lines of attack that amount to "why are you reading me as town when I'm actually so scummy", and you know on one level I'm tempted to take them at face value and say OK, "so you're saying you're scum then"? Web in particular has claimed he will fakeclaim a mafia read on prefuzek tomorrow, which is so bizarre it's not possible to take seriously. I kinda want to wait until D2 and see what he's planning.
- Euchre is being led by the nose to wherever; truly abysmal.
- I still don't like Blu, especially now they've conveniently switched over to attacking. OMGUS king strikes again.
- Jim, Prefuzek and Fallacy are fine I guess. Fallacy has this bizarro tunnel on me, but I'm confident he can take off the blinkers eventually.
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 07:18:19 am
*Assuming 2 mafia, that would mean 1/3 of the players are anti-town. Bit much!
Blu, why are you "feeling NQT as scum"? The post with your vote only gave reasons why a scum!NQT might be partnered with Prefuzek, not why you think there's a scum!NQT to begin with. Explain your reads, please.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 07:30:17 am
I do not like that Bluarian has been copying my votes, but I literally said not to vote TricMagic and to vote you, so in this case, I have no justification.
RE:Toony, also would require a look, but seemingly less so. I know that seems contradictory, but ToonyMan... just doesn't feel as scummy? Yeah, fair, that's not good justification, but intuition is intuition.
But, it feels like you are gauging my reaction on whether shifting to voting them would be a good idea, since it very much appears that I am in a position of power over the vote with the merging of the Euchre, Tric, and Bluarian bloc.
If you want to say I am pointing out that you're not voting me, no, I can actually agree with voting Blu over me for a variety of reasons, but maybe it’s because that on the surface, what I did is a scummier move than BK, but your reads list are a list of surface reads with seemingly removed context, so by that logic I should be scummier, but I'm not.Why did I keep voting after having no justification? Why did BluarianKnight OMGUS? Why did I swap from Tric being the scummiest player to being townread? These whys matter, and it feels like you're removing them when you read to justify your vote, as opposed to actually trying to find scum.
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 07:41:15 am
But you make one reasonable point: next I will take a closer look at Blu. Let's see if I really have a case here or if my suspicions misplaced...
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 08:59:10 am
As for ignoring my mega posts and it's many questions. It's an obvious move, when you don't have explanations and need to make up a bunch of them. How about this, just answer these.
- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.
Are you a sane killer nqt?
Quote
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?Why ask blue this question though?
Quote
- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.2: I like waffles, but not the type web serves. What do you think of web now NQT?
So to make it clear, Notquitethere, how do you plead? Here, or Guilty?
Believe it or not, these are the only questions in that post. Oddly enough the same number of posts you made pre-lurkertrack.
Of course, you did answer one of them, but..
Quote
In your big post you've made too many questions, I don't want to waste my morning trawling through all that.You answered the mechanical/social one, the one a veteran player would use greentext for in a newbie game for advising. You completely skipped the ones that could give insight into you. (Note, you could have skipped the first and last question too. So that's 2 questions left you didn't answer, not really a lot is it?)
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 31, 2021, 09:07:19 am
Blu,
I haven't interacted much with Prefuzek as I don't think they're scum and it's only D1. I've barely interacted with you other than voting you, does that mean we're partners?
It isn't your amount of interaction - but the substance of what those interactions are.
Most people have either not interacted barely at all past read-lists, or have been talking/questioning each other constantly. You and Prez have interacted a little, but both sides have been painting the other in a positive light - in your first readlist, he seemed to have the most effort put into him, past Jack. Your second read-list pushed him up to the top of your town-reads.
As for OMGUS claims - I flipped because the arguments on you from Tric and Web were fairly strong, not that you were voting for me - albeit how you voted alongside Pref did push me to that conclusion.
Scum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 09:59:43 am
it reads as getting people to question if what they think is actually true.I can only take this as a compliment! Of course I want people to question what they think is true when I know what they think is false!
Are you a sane killer nqt?I have no kill powers or items.
Why ask blue this question though?I wasn't sure about it myself, I didn't pick thief but I wanted to see what others thought about this. Thief is most likely to hit town, but on balance is a probably slightly pro-town when town take it, as it concentrates power into town hands. Overall it's a null pick.
2: I like waffles, but not the type web serves. What do you think of web now NQT?I think Web is suspicious. Their play lacks clarity. I'm happy to wait for a big reveal on D2 but if their reveal is "I was just messing with you all" I won't be impressed. What do you think of Web's play?
So to make it clear, Notquitethere, how do you plead? Here, or Guilty?I'm town. It was hard to read your questions as the prose was dense and you'd written them in pink which doesn't show up well on lightmode.
Blu
Scum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.I agree, such things do happen. If you lynch me and when I flip town, who will you say the scum were on my wagon?
Why didn't you like Tric to begin with? What exactly is the argument from Tric and Web that you find so compelling?
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 11:06:07 am
I think Web is suspicious. Their play lacks clarity.Oh? Please explain. I'm not entirely sure what clarity is supposed to entail in this context.
Do you think that my changing of my mind is suspicious? I have changed my mind several times now about a number of things. Is that what you find suspicious?
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 11:12:45 am
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
I asked you if this was a joke, but as far as I can see you never responded.
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 11:16:02 am
Me: uhhh, that a joke?
Web: why don't you suspect me more?
Me: You must have some ploy in mind, you're being very erratic
Web: What could you find suspicious about me?
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 11:28:23 am
Web: I'm going to lie about my resultsWeb: You think I'm suspicious, so you should vote me. Why aren't you?
Me: uhhh, that a joke?
Web: why don't you suspect me more?
Me: You must have some ploy in mind, you're being very erratic
Web: What could you find suspicious about me?
Fix'd it for you NQT. And that compliment you took, it kinda tells why you are scum. You should be finding who is scum, not making people question if them thinking you scum is wrong or right.
Blue is also making a good point about your interactions with Prez, put simply there aren't any. I'm coming at them from an old player who I've never played with before, so my read on them is going to be new. What do you see in their posts that make you think them town, and they you? Plus there is the fact people are suspicious of sheeping, yet you very much aren't apparently?
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 11:55:19 am
You should be finding who is scum, not making people question if them thinking you scum is wrong or right.I can do both. You're blinkered.
What do you see in their posts that make you think them town, and they you? Plus there is the fact people are suspicious of sheeping, yet you very much aren't apparently?Prefuzek has made three cases over the course of the game, on you, Blu and Web. They've all been competent enough for D1, Prefuzek hasn't given me reason to think they're scum so far. Why do you think I'm not suspicious of sheeping? I've repeatedly asked people like Blu to clarify their suspicions after they've sheeped. Why do you insist on ascribing false beliefs to me? This is just like the paladin claiming thing.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 31, 2021, 12:06:56 pm
From your POV you're voting with a player you think is mafia.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 12:08:39 pm
I've mentioned this a few times now! This particular play isn't clear to me, regardless of what your alignment is, why would you say this:Are you actually serious that you wanted an answer to this? My bad, I assumed it was a hypothetical, commenting on the situation as opposed to actually requiring an answer.prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
I asked you if this was a joke, but as far as I can see you never responded.
No, it wasn't a joke, I am going to lie about my results. Why is this news to anyone, and why is this news to you? I mean, what are you expecting me to do, backpedal? Nah man, I go all-in! Every game is a bet, and I bet on lucky number 13 every single time.
Web: I'm going to lie about my resultsEverything's a ploy, even when I announce exactly what I'm gonna do.
Me: uhhh, that a joke?
Web: why don't you suspect me more?
Me: You must have some ploy in mind, you're being very erratic
Web: What could you find suspicious about me?
I've just got an impulsive Mafia persona. If I can think of a plan, then I'll give it a shot. If it doesn't work, then I'll just jump to plan B, and then plan C, and then plan D! Heck, I'll run out of letters and still keep going! There are no limits except what I can get away with, and if it catches scum, then I can get away with lying about investigation results.
That's the underlying theme in this game: The ends justify the means. Mafia is vigilante justice. If you hold the gun, you control the system. My word is my sword. I am the god that smites the unjust. The wicked recoil under my gaze. The wretched fall beneath my thunderous blows.
Heh.
Haha.
(https://i1.sndcdn.com/artworks-000212704000-4dolc6-t500x500.jpg)
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Post by: ToonyMan on May 31, 2021, 12:13:40 pm
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 12:14:50 pm
I see that Web has become enlightened with madness.*scratches neck furiously*
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 12:28:43 pm
Tric, why are you voting with FoU onto NQT?
From your POV you're voting with a player you think is mafia.
Toony, why ask this question exactly? I am pretty sure NQT is mafia at this point. The only issue I have is seeing their partner, but I'd rather remove the one I think is mafia than vote a random person I don't have a.. I guess the term would be a confident read. And that list of options is simply from web insisting.
Should also be noted that I've been voting NQT from near the beginning. Someone bussing NQT isn't really an issue for me? If it weren't for that paladin claim I could jump onto web, but they're hiding behind that claim as a shield while they poke and prod everyone for info. And if they are scum are likely to self-destruct tomorrow. Or die tonight, which renders the point mute.
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 12:29:54 pm
Yes, and it's terminal. Suppose that what paladin-web looks like, too many spiders.I see that Web has become enlightened with madness.*scratches neck furiously*
Post by: ToonyMan on May 31, 2021, 01:29:42 pm
Sotsu in July will be fun.I see that Web has become enlightened with madness.*scratches neck furiously*
I don't believe you. You're voting in bad faith.Tric, why are you voting with FoU onto NQT?Toony, why ask this question exactly? I am pretty sure NQT is mafia at this point. The only issue I have is seeing their partner, but I'd rather remove the one I think is mafia than vote a random person I don't have a.. I guess the term would be a confident read. And that list of options is simply from web insisting.
From your POV you're voting with a player you think is mafia.
Should also be noted that I've been voting NQT from near the beginning. Someone bussing NQT isn't really an issue for me? If it weren't for that paladin claim I could jump onto web, but they're hiding behind that claim as a shield while they poke and prod everyone for info. And if they are scum are likely to self-destruct tomorrow. Or die tonight, which renders the point mute.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 02:16:18 pm
I lied about being a Paladin.
Now whatcha gonna do, Tric?
Post by: Jim Groovester on May 31, 2021, 02:30:22 pm
Jim,
Nobody likes being eliminated on D1, it's not alignment indicative to want to know the votes, is it?
If there were hammers in this game I'd understand the worry. But with a deadline in four days any early wagon almost always dissolves well before it expires. There was barely anything to worry about, or even be mindful of.
It's not a big thing but it is a thing.
Web,
I wanted to see what you actually do tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, I would have voted you. You can't make the argument "I'm scum, why aren't you voting me" that makes no sense. As for Toony-- he's been able to post more frequently than I have but has managed to do less. Do you like his posts?
Here I go again.
Why not just go after webadict today? Why wait until tomorrow? Is it really worth more than a dead webadict today?
What do you make of you and prefuzek both sharing this KILL WEBADICT TOMORROW sentiment?
Here's a way to test if Tric is telling the truth, Toony:
I lied about being a Paladin.
Now whatcha gonna do, Tric?
Oh, awesome.
What about yooooooooou, notquitethere and prefuzek?
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 02:38:56 pm
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 04:18:56 pm
Here's a way to test if Tric is telling the truth, Toony:Webadict. What do you think I'm going to do? Granted, this is just another of your tests, the only true qualifier is when you don't turn up a result immediately tomorrow.
I lied about being a Paladin.
Now whatcha gonna do, Tric?
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 04:23:38 pm
I'm expecting you to use your brain and think things through. Everything is a test about genuineness.Here's a way to test if Tric is telling the truth, Toony:Webadict. What do you think I'm going to do? Granted, this is just another of your tests, the only true qualifier is when you don't turn up a result immediately tomorrow.
I lied about being a Paladin.
Now whatcha gonna do, Tric?
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 04:33:15 pm
It's not a very good one, I do not do well with lies, given how many times I get caught as scum. That and it's near the end of the day you bring this test of yours up. Point is, if you lied about being a paladin, what else did you lie about?I'm expecting you to use your brain and think things through. Everything is a test about genuineness.Here's a way to test if Tric is telling the truth, Toony:Webadict. What do you think I'm going to do? Granted, this is just another of your tests, the only true qualifier is when you don't turn up a result immediately tomorrow.
I lied about being a Paladin.
Now whatcha gonna do, Tric?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 31, 2021, 04:42:59 pm
I still think we start with notquitethere for the moment, but I'll need to make some more posts - reacting to NQT's new content.
I'm expecting you to use your brain and think things through. Everything is a test about genuineness.What point do the tests serve, though?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 31, 2021, 04:48:09 pm
Hello everyone. I'm pleased to be back in a Roguelike again, and pleased also that I'm not a mad serial killer this time.
D3 players will have had two chances of questing, so it's likely there'll be one or two powerful Rares or Artefacts floating around. If this proceeds like a normal game death-wise, we'll be down to four players and it'll look like LYLO, but given player items it might not be. What am I missing?
Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?
Jim, I love the random item aspect of this format. And the class choosing is similar to CYOM. The big similarity is we have an additional piece of scum hunting info in this game: players pick their class after they get their alignment and this might in itself be informative.
Is someone picking paladin automatically suspicious?
I'll claim on D3, which, yes, hopefully I'll survive to. Not holding my breath though. I spun the wheel on it and didn't get Bard so there's that.
For those following along at home, I picked Paladin when I played this game last: as a serial killer it was a no-brainer. I'm undecided whether it's a scummy pick per se. Having an inspect scroll as town is a potential game changer. Bit less neat if you get NK'd N1 for claiming paladin (but I'm sure Web knows what he's doing, I can think of at least three possibilities: less said the better).
BluarianKnight is it acceptable for town to pick Thief?
EuchreJacknotquitethere How do I play this game? Seriously, I have no idea, and the intro text is...unhelpful.For the most part, it's a normal mafia game: use the day game to find scum. Every day you'll get a random object from a quest (unless you raid the central reserve of items instead). These items give you new abilities to use at night.all Paladins should give their Scroll of Inspection to a trusted Town player to avoid a Nightkill, and NOT say to whom they are giving the Scroll of Inspection.You can't give items to other players, read the OP.
Also, to address the points worth addressing:
- I wasn't suggesting a no lynch, I was seeing what Fallacy thought of the idea.
- Paladins are like cops, usually you don't want the cops claiming D1!
prefuzekNotquitethere: How do you tell the difference between scum and bad town?Sometimes they do look very similar, but scum have additional tells in how they interact with their buddies, they inspect differently, and use their abilities differently too. Scum have an agenda, bad town don't.
Quickfire reads:
Town
Jim - putting some consideration in, I think this is town!Jim
Web - painted a big target on his head, so must have A Plan
Prefuzek - Fairly strong start, some insightful questions, coming out swinging. Push on Tric for claiming... this falls under the category of "norm policing" votes
EuchreJack - Weird spot between having clear knowledge of the game's rules and still making obvious mistakes-- nice and proactive, is fishing ever genuinely a scumtell? Is voting me partly because of belief I was pushing for a no lynch. Another "norm policing" vote.
Bluarian - Hasn't done anything yet, only post was just answering questions: still on the backfoot.
Tric - Hasn't done anything yet other than my vague threats, definite scumlean.
Fallacy - Push on web for "reasons", is the reason "has a scroll of inspect"?
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Scum
Pfp
Just popping quickly with a couple of quick thoughts (I'll address thread properly when I get back on PC):
- Web has this play act thing which he did when running circles as town in the Revolution game. High level waffle. I think he's capable of doing this as scum but its consistent with town play. I like it so far.
- What the hell is Euchre doing shortening or unshortening? I like short snappy days too but this is incomprehensible. My theory: he's a jester. Last game showed there could be 3rd parties not mentioned in the OP. Could be same here. Someone got a better theory?
- can I get a vote count? I might be in the lead which is Not Good.
- Not sure why Fallacy doesn't think my reads were "quickfire". I didn't agonise over each one, I just made a snap judgement on what I'd seen in the thread so far. Definitely a nonsense push here.
Also, Fallacy is saying Jim's list is unbiased... that seems a really weird thing to town read someone for. Reading alignment in posts is showing a bias in favour of some players and against others. Being indifferent isn't a town tell!
Pfp, busy weekend, but game is paused over weekend anyway. Will post properly later or tomorrow.
Just a quick pop in to say:
- Tric, charts are for D2+. There's been no flips yet!
- Someone said something about a curse: I have a scroll of curse curing, so if I die and some needs it, raid the stack for it.
- Jack, scum hunting should pick up sk's etc. Focusing on 3rd parties when we don't know if they exist is a bad idea.
- Can everyone on the Tric wagon explain their case if they haven't already?
Fallacy,
This reads thing is really rather tedious. I can't see how you can honestly believe writing a few extra words to describe my opinion of one player over another is at all indicative of anything. Both prefuzek and Euchre were making "norm policing" votes which was worth commenting on: I don't think they're good votes, but I don't think they're scum indicative either.
I'm not discrediting you, you're discrediting yourself by insisting on this absurd line of inquiry.
Ultimately how town I think town players are is pretty arbitrary. I downgraded Prefuzek for having a "norm policing" case in my quickfire reads, upgraded him in my slowfire reads for his more developed play by that point.
Tell me, do you really think any of this is alignment indicative?
Web,
I wanted to see what you actually do tomorrow. Otherwise, yes, I would have voted you. You can't make the argument "I'm scum, why aren't you voting me" that makes no sense. As for Toony-- he's been able to post more frequently than I have but has managed to do less. Do you like his posts?
How about Blu, you like Blu's posts then?
Euchre,
I've looked at all the players and concisely explained what I liked or didn't like about their cases. That's more than can be said for Web or Toony or Blu who have struggled to give reasons for their votes. What do you think about Web's bizarre threats to Prefuzek?
I don't personally think an SK is likely in a 9 player game.
Tric,Right, before I get started, what is this NQT? Blue is voting me cause of meta-excuses, that I'm playing too well. Which really tells me you haven't read the thread, which makes the whole readlist suspect. Your initial toony vote didn't really have a reason either, just pressure that never went anywhere.When Blu voted you they gave no reasons. And I explained my Toony vote clearly at the time, that they had posted a bunch and hadn't done anything. This is still true.
In your big post you've made too many questions, I don't want to waste my morning trawling through all that. I will say that, by "norm policing" I mean, that there are mafia culture norms of the forum like "don't rolefish" or "don't claim everything D1" or "don't vote someone immediately after they vote you" that aren't always particularly alignment indicative, but that players like to enforce for the good of the game.
As for charts, before my read I did of course tabulate everyone's votes, which is something I almost always do, but the day's not over so it's too early to share.
You've wasted a lot of time working out possible teams I could be in, as I'm not actually scum.
Toony,
I didn't feel compelled by Jack or Jim's prior reads but it might have given me the idea to do my own. Why is Tric scum?
Jim,
Nobody likes being eliminated on D1, it's not alignment indicative to want to know the votes, is it?
Blu,
I haven't interacted much with Prefuzek as I don't think they're scum and it's only D1. I've barely interacted with you other than voting you, does that mean we're partners?
Prefuzek,
What do you think of Web and Blu's insistence that you're my scum partner?
This is where I'm at generally:
- Tric is putting a lot of eggs into the one basket of reading me as scum, with all these team compositions; this makes me feel pretty good about Tric, as scum!Tric would know that that's a losing strategy: when I flip town, what's next for D2? A lot of wasted effort.
- Web and Toony are both pursuing lines of attack that amount to "why are you reading me as town when I'm actually so scummy", and you know on one level I'm tempted to take them at face value and say OK, "so you're saying you're scum then"? Web in particular has claimed he will fakeclaim a mafia read on prefuzek tomorrow, which is so bizarre it's not possible to take seriously. I kinda want to wait until D2 and see what he's planning.
- Euchre is being led by the nose to wherever; truly abysmal.
- I still don't like Blu, especially now they've conveniently switched over to attacking. OMGUS king strikes again.
- Jim, Prefuzek and Fallacy are fine I guess. Fallacy has this bizarro tunnel on me, but I'm confident he can take off the blinkers eventually.
To reiterate again for EuchreJack: D1, it is extremely early to start believing in serial killers and arsonists and the like. If I'm clearly not partnered with anyone, what's more likely: I'm a serial killer in a 9 player game?* Or I'm not actually scum?
*Assuming 2 mafia, that would mean 1/3 of the players are anti-town. Bit much!
Blu, why are you "feeling NQT as scum"? The post with your vote only gave reasons why a scum!NQT might be partnered with Prefuzek, not why you think there's a scum!NQT to begin with. Explain your reads, please.
Tricit reads as getting people to question if what they think is actually true.I can only take this as a compliment! Of course I want people to question what they think is true when I know what they think is false!Are you a sane killer nqt?I have no kill powers or items.Why ask blue this question though?I wasn't sure about it myself, I didn't pick thief but I wanted to see what others thought about this. Thief is most likely to hit town, but on balance is a probably slightly pro-town when town take it, as it concentrates power into town hands. Overall it's a null pick.2: I like waffles, but not the type web serves. What do you think of web now NQT?I think Web is suspicious. Their play lacks clarity. I'm happy to wait for a big reveal on D2 but if their reveal is "I was just messing with you all" I won't be impressed. What do you think of Web's play?So to make it clear, Notquitethere, how do you plead? Here, or Guilty?I'm town. It was hard to read your questions as the prose was dense and you'd written them in pink which doesn't show up well on lightmode.
BluScum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.I agree, such things do happen. If you lynch me and when I flip town, who will you say the scum were on my wagon?
Why didn't you like Tric to begin with? What exactly is the argument from Tric and Web that you find so compelling?
Since nobody cares what I have to say, look over what NQT has to say...
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 04:59:15 pm
The problem is that all the mindfuckery and chaff makes it significantly harder to read Webadict at all. Could be intentional.It's harder to fake genuine reactions to new situations.
I still think we start with notquitethere for the moment, but I'll need to make some more posts - reacting to NQT's new content.I'm expecting you to use your brain and think things through. Everything is a test about genuineness.What point do the tests serve, though?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 31, 2021, 05:08:33 pm
@Euchre: Anybody that SK hunts is mafia, we don't need that.
Yes you do, because I'm going to be dead tomorrow. This is the only day that I can help Town.
UNVOTE
VOTE TricMagic
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 05:09:15 pm
@Euchre: Anybody that SK hunts is mafia, we don't need that.Still annoying though. I do not need what FoU points out at this time, as it is impossible to gamble with you actually being a paladin. (You had better be one, otherwise tomorrow is going to be short for you if my questing hands me a gun. Unlikely as that is.)The problem is that all the mindfuckery and chaff makes it significantly harder to read Webadict at all. Could be intentional.It's harder to fake genuine reactions to new situations.
I still think we start with notquitethere for the moment, but I'll need to make some more posts - reacting to NQT's new content.I'm expecting you to use your brain and think things through. Everything is a test about genuineness.What point do the tests serve, though?
Notquitethere.
Prefuzek, you have any opinions to give out?
Why are you ninjaing me? And why will you be dead tommorow?
Post by: TricMagic on May 31, 2021, 05:09:53 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on May 31, 2021, 05:15:30 pm
Why are you ninjaing me? And why will you be dead tommorow?
Gee, why do you think I'm going to be dead tomorrow?Unfair as it may be, I'd like you to answer first
Post by: EuchreJack on May 31, 2021, 05:16:21 pm
But seriously, thanks for pointing that out.
Post by: BluarianKnight on May 31, 2021, 05:17:51 pm
BluScum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.I agree, such things do happen. If you lynch me and when I flip town, who will you say the scum were on my wagon?
Why didn't you like Tric to begin with? What exactly is the argument from Tric and Web that you find so compelling?
If you're town? I'm not sure this is a scum train - FoU started it, but he has a decent reason for his suspicions.
Also - just realized, you call my votes OMGUS - but you could say that FoU OMGUS you as well, yet you've ignored him going after you once you voted him?
Just a thought.
As well - I didn't like his competency - but that's kind of a shit thing to vote on only - others have stated it, but I shouldn't vote a competent player for being competent - and his walls and reads have proven to me he's town-lean. As for why they've convinced me?
Tric and Web both laid out their beliefs and opinions, and possible scum-teams. I think Pref is scum by his interactions, and your connections (voting alongside, friendly relations as mentioned in previous posts), have combined to lead me to think you're not town-aligned.
Euchre pulling his weight.
Also - this? This is some good fucking scum-hunting - I think he's scum, but this is a decent chunk of evidence that he might be SK.
Gonna post my thoughts later, getting pulled away - and I've already delayed this post all day.
also -
EuchreJack - Why do you think you're going to be dead tomorrow?
fakeeddit: I keep getting ninja'd ;-;
Post by: EuchreJack on May 31, 2021, 05:35:04 pm
@NQT: Why am I going to die tonight?
Post by: Toaster on May 31, 2021, 06:04:21 pm
BIG IMPORTANT MOD NOTE
I have to be at work at day end tomorrow. Since I think this is sufficient notice, I'm going to bump day end forward one hour (since otherwise I'd need to push it back basically an entire day and it's already been over a weekend). If this is a problem, I can indeed mod extend to Wednesday; let me know. I can process the day end no problem tomorrow, but you'll probably be light on flavor.
Vote Count:
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
TricMagic: ToonyMan, EuchreJack
prefuzek: Jim Groovester
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, notquitethere
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EST, ~26 hours from this post.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 31, 2021, 06:15:52 pm
@Jack:
There's no way you're dead tonight Jack. Who kills Jack at night?
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 06:34:18 pm
Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.Who?
Post by: EuchreJack on May 31, 2021, 06:39:13 pm
@Jack:
There's no way you're dead tonight Jack. Who kills Jack at night?
I would feel a lot better if NQT answered first. Keep thinking about it.
Post by: ToonyMan on May 31, 2021, 07:02:18 pm
At least Tric.Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.Who?
Post by: notquitethere on May 31, 2021, 07:23:42 pm
- Web is going full joker mode on us-- I'm genuinely undecided on how to react to this. One part of me thinks this is just a wild town approach to set scum off kilter; another part of me thinks you have to draw the line somewhere and eliminate incomprehensible players. I'll sleep on it.
- I made a start ISOing Blu and got sidetracked and finished off Return of the Obra Dinn instead. Guess I'll revisit tomorrow...
- Euchre, if you're town (I think you probably are) then even still, it's pretty unlikely you'll be NK'd N1. You've been easily led into wagoning a town player and I would bet scum would think they could do it again. Probably Fallacy or Jim gets NK'd, as they're independently minded and not many people suspect either of them. If I get executed today, maybe Prefuzek gets NK'd as the scum-team tie in won't work.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 07:32:58 pm
If I get executed today, maybe Prefuzek gets NK'd as the scum-team tie in won't work.Not, say, Jim?
Post by: ToonyMan on May 31, 2021, 08:42:01 pm
Vote Web and I'll hop on.
Post by: webadict on May 31, 2021, 10:02:08 pm
If NQT is Town, I think TricMagic would be a tough sell for me as scum. If NQT is scum, then this wagon is pure af.At least Tric.Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.Who?
I'm convinced TricMagic isn't scum because they claimed their class immediately, which is a very reckless and impatient thing to do (and feels like town TricMagic). If TricMagic is scum, then TricMagic is the "head" scum. That means they are partnered with one of perfuzek or EuchreJack. I think perfuzek is technically the only player that works with this combination, since EuchreJack doesn't work for obvious reasons.
The only counter to that logic (from your perspective) is if you pair TricMagic and I, which, again, isn't possible, because I didn't notice this connection until a day ago, instead of using it immediately. And if that's the case, then I'm pretty much unreadable. Additionally, I've been antagonizing them the whole time, and there'd be no good reason to at this point, when I could just hold up a shield the rest of the day.
So, if you say TricMagic is scum, then perfuzek is scum, and if that's the case, NQT has some trash reading on perfuzek, and they've really gone all in on shielding scum.
That's the problem I have here, is that if NQT is Town, then it cannot be TricMagic as scum. If NQT is Town, then we've gotta take a look at BluarianKnight or ToonyMan. perfuzek is potentially lookable, but... Eh? If NQT is Town, that does lend credence to perfuzek being Town, but I'm still under the idea that perfuzek is likely scum, and having NQT defend them so hard is just not sitting well with me.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on May 31, 2021, 10:50:44 pm
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
Toony - Helpful and present in the thread... but no real push from them at all yet. Who's scum here, Toony?
Or. Correction. The lack thereof. NQT's vote for Toony was an anti-lurker vote, as far as I can tell. NQT's vote on Bluarian also seems to hold a significant lack of substance. If anything, the premise of it is inaccurate, as Blu gave some rationale for his vote on Tric.
BluAnyhow, TricMagic - Who do you think are scum, currently?What do you think of Tric's replies?
I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.
So. What has NQT actually contributed here, in terms of cases and scum hunting? Not much that I can see, correct me if I'm wrong. How much has NQT contributed with direct intent to defend himself?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Note: It would be a misrepresentation to say that NQT has contributed nothing towards ratting out the mafia, however, what he has contributed towards that goal is passive, low-effort, and far less in volume compared to the volume of his defenses.
So I'm fairly confident in my vote on notquitethere.
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 12:06:50 am
First impressions: I don't think anyone's made a very compelling case yet. The NQT wagon was started by FoU with an awful case, but don't have strong feelings on NQT yet. Web feels townier on reread, I'll explain more on D2. I don't like how much Toony mentions that he doesn't like Tric thinking he's town, feels like it could be over-honest scum. Some more stuff that feels bad from BK, and they didn't respond to my case so I'm happy with where my vote is. I'll do an isolated read of their posts and hopefully put a solid case together tomorrow morning.
EuchreJack:
Oh come on. Damned if I do, damned if I don't at this point.Tric:Don't drink and Mafia Jack, it makes you slip up. Can you see the chain of reasoning that brought you into this corner?Why do you care if he sees it?
Now we start the bus...
Jim:
By now I think I've gotten what I can out of webadict. Since my last post I'm actually leaning more town on them, and I think I might know what town webadict's plan is. I do feel more confident in my case on BK (they haven't responded to it), but I haven't really seen a compelling case from anyone yet this game.
Okay, sure, you're not positive that webadict is scum. I'm not convinced wanting his inspect result is a worthwhile justification to not push him but I don't want to go in circles on this topic.
You're voting BluearianKnight over webadict. Do you feel more confident in your case on BluearianKnight than on webadict? You weren't earlier:
Shouldn't you be pushing your strongest read and most solid case?
It really, really feels like you're putting arbitrary obstacles in your path to avoid pushing webadict. I agree with you that I don't feel like it's likely for you two to be partners, but I continue to have a difficult time seeing how your actions are justified from your point of view.
NQT:
Prefuzek,I don't really understand the point of this question. Blu continues to sheep Web? Blu subtly lies in their explanation though:
What do you think of Web and Blu's insistence that you're my scum partner?
You and Prez have interacted a little, but both sides have been painting the other in a positive light - in your first readlist, he seemed to have the most effort put into him, past Jack. Your second read-list pushed him up to the top of your town-reads.They only give an example of you reading me positively; I've never done the same for you.
BluarianKnight: Why did you lie about my read on NQT? Why did you not respond to my case against you? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283500#msg8283500)
I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.Why so noncommittal? The day was far from over at this point; you're vote's not a danger parked on anyone. This was also a prime opportunity to put some pressure on me and respond to my case, since we had had plenty of interaction up to here. This fits into your pattern of dodging attention.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.
I'm still suspicious of Prez - it's moreso a gut feeling, but his activity's been off to me.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 01:03:02 am
You mean NQT?You and Prez have interacted a little, but both sides have been painting the other in a positive light - in your first readlist, he seemed to have the most effort put into him, past Jack. Your second read-list pushed him up to the top of your town-reads.They only give an example of you reading me positively; I've never done the same for you.
I consider a null-vote positive - besides, it hasn't changed at all - after all this time? Unless you'd like to update it, you've been waiting for a while. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283470#msg8283470) You have barely interacted past putting him as null - and honestly, your only reason is 'I don't know'.
Alright then - I feel we've enough information for at least a base read - give me your read on NQT? I'm not taking 'not enough data' as an answer.
BluarianKnight: Why did you lie about my read on NQT? Why did you not respond to my case against you? (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283500#msg8283500)I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.Why so noncommittal? The day was far from over at this point; you're vote's not a danger parked on anyone. This was also a prime opportunity to put some pressure on me and respond to my case, since we had had plenty of interaction up to here. This fits into your pattern of dodging attention.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.
I'm still suspicious of Prez - it's moreso a gut feeling, but his activity's been off to me.
Dodging attention? There's plenty of ways of dodging attention - you take a gander at Toony, Jim, or (recently) you - they've all been rather quiet, and haven't been hitting anything dangerous.
I'm scumhunting, carefully and slowly - I leaned off Tric because I didn't believe he was scum anymore. He was the most voted at the time (I think?) So I wanted to take my vote off him before I forgot. Then NQT started building up, and his actions lead me to jump onto him - alongside decent cases from Web and Tric.
As for your case against me..
Honestly? I missed it - genuinely. I'll reply to it tomorrow. Gotta sleep.
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 02:26:58 am
Me: you can stop that
Fallacy: why are you spending time defending yourself scum???
Me: please look at literally anyone else as well
Fallacy: more defensiveness, I am so certain in this
Good morning. Webadict, your routine is fun, don't get me wrong, but it's set to lose town the game. Who do you vote when I flip town?
I feel better about Fallacy, Tric, Euchre and to a lesser extent Web now. They're appearing to try to solve even if they're tunneling. Prefuzek has come back swinging. Jim has kept a lower profile this long weekend.
Toony feels a bit off to me still, but maybe not as much as before. He's asking me to vote Web, but that feels like he's trying to set a trap.
That leaves Blu who is just wagonning. He cites Web and Tric's potential scum compositions as reason to vote me, but those weren't reasons at all, those scenarios were imagining I was scum and then trying to work out who could be my partner; but I'm not scum, so...
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:39:07 am
- Euchre, if you're town (I think you probably are) then even still, it's pretty unlikely you'll be NK'd N1. You've been easily led into wagoning a town player and I would bet scum would think they could do it again. Probably Fallacy or Jim gets NK'd, as they're independently minded and not many people suspect either of them. If I get executed today, maybe Prefuzek gets NK'd as the scum-team tie in won't work.
@NQT: Wrong answer.
Question: Why does EuchreJack die this night?
Answer: First, a true explanation of my habits thus far. I have been pretty specific on whom I think are scum: NQT, Tric, and prefuzek. I have not wavered (much), and seem pretty determined those are the three. If I am right on 2 or 3 of them, they kill me to shut me up. I've made statements that set Tric off hard, and NQT keeps trying to tell everyone to ignore me. They want to shut me up if scum. Because I'm so focused on them, if they are NOT scum, the actual scum can frame them by killing me.
Why NQT gave the WRONG answer: NQT used that exact tactic as scum in Dreams of Elan. Jim heavily suspected me of being scum, and NQT framed me by NKing Jim. Tric, Blue, KittyTac and myself eventually figured it out and lynched NQT. I can understand Tric and Blue not seeing that play, they were not framed so its possible that it was not memorable for them. But NQT was the one doing the framing, and it came close to working. Ergo, NQT should have been able to recall that tactic.
UNVOTE
VOTE notquitethere
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:56:40 am
Oh, and FOS remains on Jim actually, although having died quickly to the above tactic and not talking much, I'm still willing to consider a Town Jim universe. I guess respond Jim if you care...
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 03:58:17 am
Because I'm so focused on them, if they are NOT scum, the actual scum can frame them by killing me.Or, more simply, keep you alive and use you to lynch more town... You're smarter than this Euchre, think it through. You're in tunnel mode, twisting everything to fit a pattern you've decided upon. Step back a moment.
What reasons do you have for thinking Prefuzek is scum other than the fact I'm townreading them? When I flip town, are you going to go back to Tric... or?
The term is Gaslighting.Jesus H, Jack I'm not gaslighting you. Disagreeing with you isn't trying to undermine your sanity, I'm trying to tell you that you're wrong about something that you genuinely are wrong about.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 04:18:03 am
VOTE Prefuzek
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 04:22:36 am
By now I think I've gotten what I can out of webadict. Since my last post I'm actually leaning more town on them, and I think I might know what town webadict's plan is. I do feel more confident in my case on BK (they haven't responded to it), but I haven't really seen a compelling case from anyone yet this game.
I feel better about Fallacy, Tric, Euchre and to a lesser extent Web now. They're appearing to try to solve even if they're tunneling. Prefuzek has come back swinging. Jim has kept a lower profile this long weekend.
"I'd vote webadict if he wasn't a Paladin"
"I'm not a Paladin"
'Err, uhhh, well, ummmmm, actually I'm starting to read webadict as town"
At least TricMagic had the guts to cast an actual vote even if he plopped it on notquitethere not much later.
By now I think I've gotten what I can out of webadict. Since my last post I'm actually leaning more town on them, and I think I might know what town webadict's plan is. I do feel more confident in my case on BK (they haven't responded to it), but I haven't really seen a compelling case from anyone yet this game.
Disappearing for two days is a weird way to describe getting stuff out of webadict but whatever.
Web feels townier on reread, I'll explain more on D2.
I don't want to wait until Day 2.
The term is Gaslighting. The fact that Blue on some level sympathizes with me, having from my understanding been a frequent victim of this tactic, gives Blue some town cred in my eyes.
Oh, and FOS remains on Jim actually, although having died quickly to the above tactic and not talking much, I'm still willing to consider a Town Jim universe. I guess respond Jim if you care...
Since you're invoking me I'll point out that your supposition that notquitethere killed me to frame you in Dreams of Elan is false.
I had it queued upI don't know why you killed me first when I had the game dead wrong from the start and everybody else had it right.Well it turns out I shouldn't have, but I just queued up the kill first thing. Picked someone that could be trouble. The first day came to an end sooner than I was expecting but if I'd been in the thread I'd probably have changed it.
notquitethere killing me in Dreams of Elan was about me and not about you.
Scum almost never kill to frame another player. It's night kill WIFOM and easily dispelled.
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 04:41:41 am
Unofficial Vote Count
------------------------
EuchreJack:
notquitethere - 4 - FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
TricMagic - 1 - ToonyMan
prefuzek: - 2 - Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: - 2 - prefuzek, notquitethere
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting - 0 -
I started looking at Blu and I think it's telling that Blu only ever jumps on existing wagons, sheeping other people's votes. They also threw one softball question to Toony which helps my theory but I know that that's nothing to really build upon.
Euchre hops about wildly, that's a pretty town trait. I'm pretty sold on them as town.
Toony what makes you think this is scum!Tric? Is there some meta I'm not seeing here?
Webadict, if you succeed in launching me today and when I flip town, are there scum on my wagon or not?
Tric, what do you think about Jim's play?
PPE: Jim, yeah I'm vacillating on Web, I genuinely can't make up my mind about the best way to approach his weird play. What do you think about the claim/threat/retraction?
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 05:13:13 am
I think your theory of 1+ in Toony/Jim/perfuzek is probably correct. Toony is very, very passive this game, and I dislike that so many people are all townreading Jim in spite of them not being here and active. Jim did like one pro-Town move that I remember, and Toony is just playing the activelurk. Heck, I'm debating the efficacy of perfuzek being scum, and that is no good.
The problem is my PoE is currently one short of a victory. TricMagic, EuchreJack, and FoU are my PoE right now.
I think the only player with scum equity on your wagon is BluarianKnight, and I want to remove them from my suspects, but they are following me everywhere I go. It'd make my PoE great if I could. That would make your entire wagon pure. So, scum not jumping on would be great for them.
And from your perspective, I am the player with the highest scum equity on your wagon, which is why you voted me. And honestly, that does make some sense from town perspective. You are trying to gauge who may partner is. That's a good take. You have accepted your death. Very Townie.
I could be convinced to pile Toony or Jim, who are very much in my suspect pile. Toony appears to be trying to start a competing wagon on myself. That... isn't alignment indicative. Jim... Idk. They've both only had one real suspect all day with very little in the way of read progress, and using their not being here as a shield isn't good enough for me.
Hmmm... Decisions decisions.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 06:20:11 am
Hehehehe. OK guys there is at least one scum in Toony/Jim/Prefuzek. When there's a solid wagon formed, scum almost never all jump on the same vote.Prefuzek came back swinging alright, batting at the haters, pushing an alternate vote. That post they made more than anything tells me that a Prez/NQT team is not only possible, but likely.
Unofficial Vote Count
------------------------
EuchreJack:
notquitethere - 4 - FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
TricMagic - 1 - ToonyMan
prefuzek: - 2 - Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: - 2 - prefuzek, notquitethere
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting - 0 -
I started looking at Blu and I think it's telling that Blu only ever jumps on existing wagons, sheeping other people's votes. They also threw one softball question to Toony which helps my theory but I know that that's nothing to really build upon.
Euchre hops about wildly, that's a pretty town trait. I'm pretty sold on them as town.
Toony what makes you think this is scum!Tric? Is there some meta I'm not seeing here?
Webadict, if you succeed in launching me today and when I flip town, are there scum on my wagon or not?
Tric, what do you think about Jim's play?
PPE: Jim, yeah I'm vacillating on Web, I genuinely can't make up my mind about the best way to approach his weird play. What do you think about the claim/threat/retraction?
As for Jim, it becomes more and more obvious you haven't read the thread, I've long since seen Jim and Toony as town, from near the beginning of the day. Nothing has changed, and their posts continue to showcase towniness. Jim exudes towniness.
Also, voting web after getting prodded isn't the best thing, given it reads as a last gasp seeking air. (These lines brought to you by pre-breakfast tricmagic)
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:56:23 am
I was going to tell Jack he was WRONG, but you did it for me.Oh, and FOS remains on Jim actually, although having died quickly to the above tactic and not talking much, I'm still willing to consider a Town Jim universe. I guess respond Jim if you care...Since you're invoking me I'll point out that your supposition that notquitethere killed me to frame you in Dreams of Elan is false.I had it queued upnotquitethere killing me in Dreams of Elan was about me and not about you.I don't know why you killed me first when I had the game dead wrong from the start and everybody else had it right.Well it turns out I shouldn't have, but I just queued up the kill first thing. Picked someone that could be trouble. The first day came to an end sooner than I was expecting but if I'd been in the thread I'd probably have changed it.
Scum almost never kill to frame another player. It's night kill WIFOM and easily dispelled.
@NQT:
When there's a solid wagon formed, scum almost never all jump on the same vote.This isn't true and you know it. We (me, you, and juicebox) all jumped on Caz together in Mostly Vanilla Mafia 2 on Day 1 and that's just off the top of my head.
Toony what makes you think this is scum!Tric? Is there some meta I'm not seeing here?He's not paranoid about me, at all. In fact, he insists I'm town even though I've been activelurking the entire game so far.
@TricMagic:
As for Jim, it becomes more and more obvious you haven't read the thread, I've long since seen Jim and Toony as town, from near the beginning of the day. Nothing has changed, and their posts continue to showcase towniness. Jim exudes towniness.Why??? Where does this confidence come from??? Gut reading me as town makes no sense if you've played with me before as mafia which you have Tric, you have.
Pretty certain there's one (and likely only one) mafia in NQT/TricMagic.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:57:34 am
FAIRIf NQT is Town, I think TricMagic would be a tough sell for me as scum. If NQT is scum, then this wagon is pure af.At least Tric.Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.Who?
I'm convinced TricMagic isn't scum because they claimed their class immediately, which is a very reckless and impatient thing to do (and feels like town TricMagic). If TricMagic is scum, then TricMagic is the "head" scum. That means they are partnered with one of perfuzek or EuchreJack. I think perfuzek is technically the only player that works with this combination, since EuchreJack doesn't work for obvious reasons.
The only counter to that logic (from your perspective) is if you pair TricMagic and I, which, again, isn't possible, because I didn't notice this connection until a day ago, instead of using it immediately. And if that's the case, then I'm pretty much unreadable. Additionally, I've been antagonizing them the whole time, and there'd be no good reason to at this point, when I could just hold up a shield the rest of the day.
So, if you say TricMagic is scum, then perfuzek is scum, and if that's the case, NQT has some trash reading on perfuzek, and they've really gone all in on shielding scum.
That's the problem I have here, is that if NQT is Town, then it cannot be TricMagic as scum. If NQT is Town, then we've gotta take a look at BluarianKnight or ToonyMan. perfuzek is potentially lookable, but... Eh? If NQT is Town, that does lend credence to perfuzek being Town, but I'm still under the idea that perfuzek is likely scum, and having NQT defend them so hard is just not sitting well with me.
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 09:52:27 am
The strangest thing about BluarianKnight's posts is that I've been on every scumteam they've proposed: me+Euchre, me+Tric, me+Toony, and now me+NQT. BK's main reason for voting NQT is that it looks like he's my scumpartner (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283902#msg8283902) (they also justified it by sheeping FoU's awful case based on word counts of NQT's first reads). So, Blu, why have you never voted me if I'm the common link? Is it harder to make a case for me that you think people will go along with?
It's also very strange that they missed my post addressed to them if they were trying to get a read on me, which tells me that they weren't trying to get a read on me very hard. They also didn't respond to NQT's question addressing the link above - is this a pattern of dodging questions they don't have good answers to?
NQT is acting how I expect him to behave as town heading towards a mislynch. I haven't seen a solid case on him besides web's here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283765#msg8283765) The SK case and FoU's case are truly awful. I wish I had more to say here but I'm running out of time.
People voting NQT: Can give you give your condensed reasoning for your vote?
Jim: Do you believe that webadict is actually not a paladin? Because I don't.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 10:43:00 am
Vote me for that if you want to, but I am Town, and it was a good warm-up that left valuable information.
I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 10:46:51 am
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
TricMagic: ToonyMan
prefuzek: Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: prefuzek
webadict: notquitethere
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EST, ~9 hours from this post.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 11:03:01 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 11:10:15 am
I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.Infolynching is bad.
Also Webadict since NQT did vote you.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 11:12:17 am
I'm not a Paladin. I just claimed to be to see the reactions of what people would do if they weren't able to inspect me.This is the type of thing that gets scum-me annoyed at you web. And town-me when I have powers that can help others.
Vote me for that if you want to, but I am Town, and it was a good warm-up that left valuable information.
I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.
To Prez, Nightmare NQT, that is all. And it's still looking like if NQT is scum, you are likely their partner, given you're defending them. If NQT is town, the chances of you being town do go up a bit though, which that case you made does lead to Blue being scum. Maybe, I'm not in the best mental shape today.
Ninja. Is this another Chinese fire drill scenario?
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 11:14:38 am
Do you know what's an even better elimination? Actually hitting scum. That's such a cop out. It doesn't prove shit when I flip town, people who don't think I'm scum you can say were pocketing me and people who do think it you can way were making bad faith cases. C'mon.
Toony, you're right I might overstated-- scum can vote as a bloc. But far and a way the most common thing that I see on any typical day in any typical game is scum sitting back and letting town lynch town.
Tric, there's 8 hours to go, plenty of time for people to pick better votes.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 11:20:27 am
Is Web your #1 scum pick?
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 11:20:57 am
I'd honestly suggest you go after web with everything you got, in revelation that he is apparently lying. That might change my mind.
nin.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 11:23:19 am
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 11:30:26 am
I'm not a Paladin. I just claimed to be to see the reactions of what people would do if they weren't able to inspect me.
Vote me for that if you want to, but I am Town, and it was a good warm-up that left valuable information.
I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.
My opinion: Town Paladin Web would, after telling prefuzek that they were going to inspect and lie about them being mafia regardless of outcome, then would have free use of the inspect scroll on somebody else. Since Town Paladin Web doesn't know who is scum.
Now whether Town Paladin Web would lie about being Paladin by saying not Paladin, presumably to later say "Just kidding, actually I am a paladin"? Probably not, because Web had burned all the paladin cred. It makes the new information less useful. But, sadly, it is a strategy I could see Web doing as Town.
The only thing about Web that I'm sure about is that we'll be getting more Paladin/Not-Paladin discussions before the day is over. More claims/notclaims? Dunno
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 11:37:09 am
I started looking at Blu and I think it's telling that Blu only ever jumps on existing wagons, sheeping other people's votes. They also threw one softball question to Toony which helps my theory but I know that that's nothing to really build upon.
I would say my Jack vote wasn't jumping on a wagon - I got in late, but I had my own reasons to vote on them without looking to others. You're right that I've been slacking though - let me change that.
OK, I've done an isolated read of both Blu and NQT.
The strangest thing about BluarianKnight's posts is that I've been on every scumteam they've proposed: me+Euchre, me+Tric, me+Toony, and now me+NQT. BK's main reason for voting NQT is that it looks like he's my scumpartner (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283902#msg8283902) (they also justified it by sheeping FoU's awful case based on word counts of NQT's first reads). So, Blu, why have you never voted me if I'm the common link? Is it harder to make a case for me that you think people will go along with
It's D1 - unless you make a major mistake, it's hard to lay out facts. I started suspecting you here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283305#msg8283305) You called me out for 'echoing' and 'misplay' on Euchrejack on my second post - after this point, I'm your top scumpick, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283312#msg8283312) since you put my as scum, alongside voting for me. For two posts - I'd put weight that most people would need more before putting such a hefty vote.After that, me and Web are your lynch-pins - for reasons that honestly, I still don't understand.
EuchreJack: have you been reading my posts?My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.BluarianKnight: My suspicion of you is not because you think Tric is mafia. It's because you were doing nothing useful while posting just enough to not be lurking, and you justified behaviour by comparing it to games where you were scum. Now, you're hard defending webadict for no apparent reason giving that I'm not voting them, and calling me scum for reasons that make no sense. You say I've buddied to Euchre, but all I've done is say I read him as town a couple of times. I'm not calling Toony out on that because I don't think saying that people are town is scummy. I think you took the idea that I'm buddying Euchre from web - take a look at my posts and tell me where I've buddied. I've actually avoided responding to him quite a bit, since I don't want to fill up the thread with conversation with someone who I have a solid read on already.QuoteGive me a proper read-list. It feels like you've picked two targets and you're ignoring everyone else, which is poor town-game this early on.QuoteI haven't asked questions to half of the player-list yet.Huh.QuoteAnother point - you and Euchre are the only players so far pushing a scum!web this early. The newest players. The thing is, Web has done this shit in the past as town. It's hard to read him traditionally, and I've fallen victim to thinking he's scum when he's doing a bullshit town play. (Reference Election, where town!Web wins because I (a scum player uninformed) thought he was my scum ally.)Euchre has web as his second most towny player, so I'm not sure where you get this from. I know web plays idiosyncratically. But if you go back and read my case, it's not about his playstyle. It's about concrete decisions he's making that don't make any sense from a town perspective - the town perspective he's encouraged Jack to adopt in this same game.
Your basis seems to be on A) Me defending Web - which is more me trying to teach newer players that Web is fucking crazy, and to adjust - and that I'm 'following the herd'.
That seems to be the largest claim - That I'm not making my own way. Alright, fuck it. - Writing this out, I realize my Pref view is biased on a probable OMGUS reaction, so I'm taking him out of consideration for now - he's voting for me for similar reasons I'm voting for him, and it's poor town play to vote reactively. So let me actually start a new wagon here;
Jim.
You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.
You're making walls, sure - but a lot of it is fluffy. I don't like it - and you've been sitting back while everyone else is pushing a NQT vote - I think you were building up to push a Pref wagon, but decided to let it simmer while NQT got flak.
You've got a lot of talk, but no bite - nothing risky, nothing pushing town sentiment. Just enough to float by.
Your read-lists are short - a lot of your reasonings are below your walls, each person maybe a sentence or two.
Jim, what's your case on Pref?
FAKEEDIT : And I see by the time it took me to write this, folks are flipping on Web. Huh.
Infolynching on D1 isn't a terrible idea in my eyes - we still have heavy majority.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 11:41:50 am
WebI admitted to lying. That gives you a lot of ammo. TricMagic and ToonyMan are pushing for you to make a case on me. So, make a case on me then. I made a case on you. Your reads are shit, your findings are shit, and your pairings are shit. Kinda makes you look like scum.
Do you know what's an even better elimination? Actually hitting scum. That's such a cop out. It doesn't prove shit when I flip town, people who don't think I'm scum you can say were pocketing me and people who do think it you can way were making bad faith cases. C'mon.
Toony, you're right I might overstated-- scum can vote as a bloc. But far and a way the most common thing that I see on any typical day in any typical game is scum sitting back and letting town lynch town.
Tric, there's 8 hours to go, plenty of time for people to pick better votes.
I mean, if I get elimmed, I'm Town, so you look like absolute scum, and I will use my dying breath to call for your head. Maybe I'll be right, but with how poorly you look already, you're gonna be elimmed Tomorrow.
Lmao, yeah, okay, peanut gallery.I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.Infolynching is bad.
Fair. But, I like lying, especially as Town.I'm not a Paladin. I just claimed to be to see the reactions of what people would do if they weren't able to inspect me.This is the type of thing that gets scum-me annoyed at you web. And town-me when I have powers that can help others.
Vote me for that if you want to, but I am Town, and it was a good warm-up that left valuable information.
I believe NQT is a good elim as either Town or scum, since a Town elim does a lot to clear perfuzek of being scum, and paints big ol' bullseyes on Blu and Jim, and maybe a little bit towards ToonyMan.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 11:43:50 am
Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.
Toonyman is only scum on a scumteam with NQT. If NQT is not scum, then Toonyman as scum is making his team's life harder by not letting town lynch an opposing force.
But what if scum Toonyman was just trying to Pocket NQT? Get NQT to like him by saving NQT from a lynch?
NQT is too smart for that, and would "reward" Toonyman with a nightkill that he either may already have, or could randomly acquire in later days. If Toonyman was scum, and saved NQT from lynching, NQT is gonna use their first Night Kill on Toonyman. And Toonyman, I believe, is smart enough to know that.
The only way, I figure, that Toonyman is scum, is if Toonyman is on a scumteam with NQT.
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 11:58:27 am
Do you mean EDT, Toaster?
Yes, sorry. Eight hours from this post.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 12:00:19 pm
Are you saying town!NQT would kill mafia!Toony for pocketing him?Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.
Toonyman is only scum on a scumteam with NQT. If NQT is not scum, then Toonyman as scum is making his team's life harder by not letting town lynch an opposing force.
But what if scum Toonyman was just trying to Pocket NQT? Get NQT to like him by saving NQT from a lynch?
NQT is too smart for that, and would "reward" Toonyman with a nightkill that he either may already have, or could randomly acquire in later days. If Toonyman was scum, and saved NQT from lynching, NQT is gonna use their first Night Kill on Toonyman. And Toonyman, I believe, is smart enough to know that.
The only way, I figure, that Toonyman is scum, is if Toonyman is on a scumteam with NQT.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 12:38:27 pm
EDIT because I fucked it up and put most of my argument in a quoteI started looking at Blu and I think it's telling that Blu only ever jumps on existing wagons, sheeping other people's votes. They also threw one softball question to Toony which helps my theory but I know that that's nothing to really build upon.
I would say my Jack vote wasn't jumping on a wagon - I got in late, but I had my own reasons to vote on them without looking to others. You're right that I've been slacking though - let me change that.OK, I've done an isolated read of both Blu and NQT.
The strangest thing about BluarianKnight's posts is that I've been on every scumteam they've proposed: me+Euchre, me+Tric, me+Toony, and now me+NQT. BK's main reason for voting NQT is that it looks like he's my scumpartner (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283902#msg8283902) (they also justified it by sheeping FoU's awful case based on word counts of NQT's first reads). So, Blu, why have you never voted me if I'm the common link? Is it harder to make a case for me that you think people will go along with
It's D1 - unless you make a major mistake, it's hard to lay out facts. I started suspecting you here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283305#msg8283305) You called me out for 'echoing' and 'misplay' on Euchrejack on my second post - after this point, I'm your top scumpick, (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283312#msg8283312) since you put my as scum, alongside voting for me. For two posts - I'd put weight that most people would need more before putting such a hefty vote.After that, me and Web are your lynch-pins - for reasons that honestly, I still don't understand.EuchreJack: have you been reading my posts?My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.BluarianKnight: My suspicion of you is not because you think Tric is mafia. It's because you were doing nothing useful while posting just enough to not be lurking, and you justified behaviour by comparing it to games where you were scum. Now, you're hard defending webadict for no apparent reason giving that I'm not voting them, and calling me scum for reasons that make no sense. You say I've buddied to Euchre, but all I've done is say I read him as town a couple of times. I'm not calling Toony out on that because I don't think saying that people are town is scummy. I think you took the idea that I'm buddying Euchre from web - take a look at my posts and tell me where I've buddied. I've actually avoided responding to him quite a bit, since I don't want to fill up the thread with conversation with someone who I have a solid read on already.QuoteGive me a proper read-list. It feels like you've picked two targets and you're ignoring everyone else, which is poor town-game this early on.QuoteI haven't asked questions to half of the player-list yet.Huh.QuoteAnother point - you and Euchre are the only players so far pushing a scum!web this early. The newest players. The thing is, Web has done this shit in the past as town. It's hard to read him traditionally, and I've fallen victim to thinking he's scum when he's doing a bullshit town play. (Reference Election, where town!Web wins because I (a scum player uninformed) thought he was my scum ally.)Euchre has web as his second most towny player, so I'm not sure where you get this from. I know web plays idiosyncratically. But if you go back and read my case, it's not about his playstyle. It's about concrete decisions he's making that don't make any sense from a town perspective - the town perspective he's encouraged Jack to adopt in this same game.
Your basis seems to be on A) Me defending Web - which is more me trying to teach newer players that Web is fucking crazy, and to adjust - and that I'm 'following the herd'.
That seems to be the largest claim - That I'm not making my own way. Alright, fuck it. - Writing this out, I realize my Pref view is biased on a probable OMGUS reaction, so I'm taking him out of consideration for now - he's voting for me for similar reasons I'm voting for him, and it's poor town play to vote reactively. So let me actually start a new wagon here;
Jim.
You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.
You're making walls, sure - but a lot of it is fluffy. I don't like it - and you've been sitting back while everyone else is pushing a NQT vote - I think you were building up to push a Pref wagon, but decided to let it simmer while NQT got flak.
You've got a lot of talk, but no bite - nothing risky, nothing pushing town sentiment. Just enough to float by.
Your read-lists are short - a lot of your reasonings are below your walls, each person maybe a sentence or two.
Jim, what's your case on Pref?
FAKEEDIT : And I see by the time it took me to write this, folks are flipping on Web. Huh.
Infolynching on D1 isn't a terrible idea in my eyes - we still have heavy majority.
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 12:53:21 pm
I'm currently voting webadict because I can't get a handle on their play. Let me walk you through.
Web himself put it best:
Why are you doing this?
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.
But what is this but lulnanigans?
Oh, and I'll take this time to say I'm a Paladin, so inspects are useless on me.
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
No, it wasn't a joke, I am going to lie about my results.
I lied about being a Paladin.
Web might say this:
I play this game like it's poker.And I believe him. He wants to keep his opponents guessing about what he really is. That's great! I sometimes lie as town too. But this threatening and posturing isn't purposeful, it just casts doubt over any claims he might make in future days.
Looking back over Web's posts, there's a lot of genuinely good stuff to like. I don't really understand their vote on me though, it's just following Tric into the land of inventing team compositions (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283869#msg8283869) when 1. I'm not actually scum (I can forgive town for not knowing that yet) and 2. those team compositions are presented as if there were reasons to vote someone (unforgivable on D1 with no flips, pure smoke and mirrors bullshit).
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 12:56:24 pm
I've looked over your posts.
Jim is right that you've defended Web this whole game, why? Jack has played with Web before, Perf is familiar with Web. Neither of them "needs teaching".
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 01:08:49 pm
The thing about Toony is he's been activelurking and he knows he's been activelurking.
So the first hint of anything resembling scum hunting from Toony came immediately after I prodded him for activity and it's just a sheep:
Let's go with TricMagic. Jim is never wrong.
This D1 has been remarkable for all the sheep voting, as this never used to be part of Bay12 meta (but it's normal elsewhere).
He keeps doing this thing where he acknowledges he looks terrible, as if by hanging a lampshade on it absolves him of doing things:
Tric is townreading me wtf???
@TricMagic:
Why are you still townreading me? I don't get it at all. A lot of players are suspicious of me.
Dude you're driving me crazy, why are you town reading me? You can post walls of text for Jack, but won't answer me.
He insists I'm town even though I've been activelurking the entire game so far.
It's borderline coaching Tric:
Tric, why are you voting with FoU onto NQT?
From your POV you're voting with a player you think is mafia.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate all of Toony's content:
Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.
But it's easy to say absolutely correct stuff like this as scum, in fact, being a Cassandra about an upcoming mislynch is definitely somewhere in the basic mafia playbook. I've done it myself several times.
The best I can say is that if this is town!Toony, he might need a bit of a runup for this game; his actual content and game sense and questions seem to be increasing in frequency and quality as the day goes on. This is all very promising and why I don't want to launch him today. His last dozen posts have been much better than his first dozen (empty) posts, and that's a trend I can be happy to see.
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 01:28:28 pm
EDIT because I fucked it up and put most of my argument in a quoteYou put it in another quote again! If you want that vote on Jim to do anything, post properly. The preview button is your friend.
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 01:37:53 pm
The deal with Blu is that he's a bit lazy.
You're right that I've been slacking
Looking back over D1, his first vote is fine, so far as it goes. Jack really was acting bizarrely so can't fault that too much:
EuchreJack - the fuck are you doing?
We can sympathetically say it's not an OMGUS just because Euchre voted Blu first, but still, it's not an EOD-quality vote or anything. There are little hints that Blu is maybe not quite on the level:
Tric pointed out three mafia - it's a two mafia game.It's most probably a two mafia game but we don't know 100%, the OP doesn't state it; this could be TMI from Blu.
Then he's 4th on the Tric-wagon with a weak angle:
TricMagic: Jim Groovester, ToonyMan, webadict
Anyhow, TricMagic - Who do you think are scum, currently?
This doesn't come from nowhere, there's a build up of suspicion beforehand. A day later, prompted by a question from me he backs of entirely:
Even going so far as to pre-emptively call Tric null. Flash in the pan. Then the next thing we see, he sheeps Tric and Euchre's case on me:What do you think of Tric's replies?I think Tric's a little less scummy each post he makes - at first I thought it was him being coached, but.. honestly, he does have precedence of this sort of play as town.
My main suspicion is built off him playing way off his usual town!tells.. which, at the end of the day, is kind of shitty to do if he's improving, or trying not to get lynched for his play as town.
I'm going to UNVOTE him for now, because I'd like to dig through the thread for a solid base before hounding him, and if I can't find one.. he'll be pushed to null in my books.
Web, right now I find NQT to be a centerpin. Do you know if he'd coach from the back as scum? From this, I can conclude three options. Option A, the bold one, Prefuzek.
Nah - I'm honestly feeling NQT as scum, with Prez as his partner.
And despite recognising that Jack's SK attack is patently absurd in it overconfidence in believing such an unlikely thing for a 9 player game:
Fine, fine, let's kill the SK first. For all we know, NQT could be something truly awful, like a poisoner, an arsonist, or something else that gets worse with time.Why do you think NQT is a SK?
Obviously this all sits worse with me as I'm the recipient of his pile-on play this time. So nothing overwhelmingly bad, but nothing overwhelmingly good either. I was about to call it at that but Blu has literally just popped in with a good post.
Jim... You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.Now this is what I like to see! Bold direction, a fresh reconsideration. I like it, and in that same spirit, I'll take another look back at Jim myself.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 01:43:14 pm
PPE: Jim, yeah I'm vacillating on Web, I genuinely can't make up my mind about the best way to approach his weird play. What do you think about the claim/threat/retraction?
I don't think much of it and never have. I'm more interested in people's reactions to it, especially all the players who said they would vote webadict if he weren't a Paladin, only to find that for most of them, save yourself, it was talk.
Jim: Do you believe that webadict is actually not a paladin? Because I don't.
I really don't care whether he is or not.
Jim.
You've been sitting back and poking town - but honestly, I'm not seeing you scumhunt or take risks - you sit back when other players take risks.
You're making walls, sure - but a lot of it is fluffy. I don't like it - and you've been sitting back while everyone else is pushing a NQT vote - I think you were building up to push a Pref wagon, but decided to let it simmer while NQT got flak.
You've got a lot of talk, but no bite - nothing risky, nothing pushing town sentiment. Just enough to float by.
Your read-lists are short - a lot of your reasonings are below your walls, each person maybe a sentence or two.
So what, concisely, are you voting me for? Because it looks like you're voting me for not having the presence I had earlier in the day.
Jim, what's your case on Pref?
Being cautious, risk-averse scum. Saying he would vote webadict if he weren't a Paladin, and then not doing that is what bothered me the most about him.
Where am I at today going into the deadline.
EuchreJack - Sheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. Would jump off a cliff if a player the majority of the game considered town told him it was the right Day 1 play.
notquitethere - Weaker presence earlier in the day. Stronger presence later in the day, but mostly to turn the bandwagon off of him at the end of the day. Voting webadict after being challenged to but I'm not clear on what exactly he finds suspicious about webadict aside from being bothered by bluffs and ploys. Self-preservation is typical for NQT for both town and scum so I don't care that he's doing that.
TricMagic - Is TricMagic. Feels like a slightly more competent version of town TricMagic.
prefuzek - Play reminds me a lot of what cautious, risk-averse scum would do. Should have voted webadict when he said he suspected him earlier in the day instead of dodging it.
BluarianKnight - Has been on every bandwagon as the game developed. Jumped off the NQT bandwagon to vote me alleging a lack of presence.
webadict - Admitted his lie about being paladin to bait his suspects into voting him. It might work? Appears to be making genuine efforts to solve the game.
FallacyofUrist - Has sat on their NQT READS BAD case for the duration of the game. Has added NQT DEFENDING HIMSELF BAD to his NQT case. Has literally just been tunneling all day on NQT.
ToonyMan - Weak, unenergetic presence early in Day 1. More to form later in Day 1.
My prefuzek vote isn't doing anything. I would vote FallacyofUrist for doing literally nothing except tunneling notquitethere all day long with a mediocre case but that would be trading one do nothing vote for another. This leaves BluearianKnight as the strongest read I have that might gain actual traction.
Going to do a bit more digging before the end of the day though; most of this was from memory and wasn't from a study of the game so far.
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 02:22:58 pm
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 02:32:17 pm
Nah, keeping my vote on prefuzek for now. Too close to the deadline to vote "lesser scum suspects"
FOS Blue though. I'm still feeling a bit sheepish...
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 02:34:32 pm
Yes, as would any version NQT that isn't aligned with mafia!Toony.Are you saying town!NQT would kill mafia!Toony for pocketing him?Hmmm feel like the NQT wagon is bad. That means they aren't mafia though...probably at least one mafia on them right now if that's the case.
Toonyman is only scum on a scumteam with NQT. If NQT is not scum, then Toonyman as scum is making his team's life harder by not letting town lynch an opposing force.
But what if scum Toonyman was just trying to Pocket NQT? Get NQT to like him by saving NQT from a lynch?
NQT is too smart for that, and would "reward" Toonyman with a nightkill that he either may already have, or could randomly acquire in later days. If Toonyman was scum, and saved NQT from lynching, NQT is gonna use their first Night Kill on Toonyman. And Toonyman, I believe, is smart enough to know that.
The only way, I figure, that Toonyman is scum, is if Toonyman is on a scumteam with NQT.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 02:38:43 pm
Self preservation is a hallmark of my play, regardless of alignment, yes. Guilty as charged. I don't roll over or go down easy.
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Yeah, this is survival:NQT. If you want the vote to move to web, you can manage that. As is this vote just reads as jumping on the most likely wagon to get you out of lynchtown asap.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 02:45:08 pm
Self preservation is a hallmark of my play, regardless of alignment, yes. Guilty as charged. I don't roll over or go down easy.
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Yeah, this is survival:NQT. If you want the vote to move to web, you can manage that. As is this vote just reads as jumping on the most likely wagon to get you out of lynchtown asap.
Indeed, if I had to pick a wagon to form to save my butt, I'd pick Blue over Web every day of the week. Blue wagon seems desperate. Good Job Blue for having the guts to create your own wagon.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 02:48:30 pm
Post by: notquitethere on June 01, 2021, 02:49:11 pm
But look, earlier in the day I could have hopped on the big Tric wagon which had at least half the other players on, but I don't think Tric is a good fit for scum so I'm not doing that. I've outlined why I suspect the three players I suspect. I know they can't all be scum, but I'm not about to try to wagon someone I actually think is town either. I want to lynch within Blu/Web. There's nothing unprincipled or bad play about that.
I'm currently looking at other players, to reassess my suspicions. This is something that players like Fallacy should be doing.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 02:50:16 pm
My prefuzek vote isn't doing anything. I would vote FallacyofUrist for doing literally nothing except tunneling notquitethere all day long with a mediocre case but that would be trading one do nothing vote for another. This leaves BluearianKnight as the strongest read I have that might gain actual traction.
Self preservation is a hallmark of my play, regardless of alignment, yes. Guilty as charged. I don't roll over or go down easy.This is either a really blatant save by mafia!Jim to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 02:51:23 pm
This is either a really blatant save by mafia!Jim to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.Same thought I had.
Ughhhhh... Do you think Jim would do that?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 03:04:22 pm
No he wouldn't.This is either a really blatant save by mafia!Jim to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.Same thought I had.
Ughhhhh... Do you think Jim would do that?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 03:08:05 pm
Look Web, not only do I think BK is scummy here but if they flip scum then I know what players I will clear or suspect! It's like an infolynch without any of the negatives!
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:09:32 pm
This is either a really blatant save by mafia!ToonyMan to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.(maybe)My prefuzek vote isn't doing anything. I would vote FallacyofUrist for doing literally nothing except tunneling notquitethere all day long with a mediocre case but that would be trading one do nothing vote for another. This leaves BluearianKnight as the strongest read I have that might gain actual traction.Self preservation is a hallmark of my play, regardless of alignment, yes. Guilty as charged. I don't roll over or go down easy.This is either a really blatant save by mafia!Jim to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 03:13:22 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:16:33 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 03:19:19 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 03:19:19 pm
This is either a really blatant save by mafia!ToonyMan to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.(maybe)They can't all three be scum.
BluarianKnight. This is like my third pick, so it's probably right. And if not, NQT or ToonyMan dies Tomorrow.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:26:06 pm
I'll deal with Pref tonight.
Oooh, ominous. I guess its a good think I was going to leave them my Scroll of Curse in my last will and testament. Since I still rate my death as "possible", I figure its best to use the items I got and tell everyone, rather than use random stuff you lot don't know about and can't figure out when I'm dead.
Also, as per Tric's request, I left the evidence of the link between him and prefuzek today, while I know I'm still alive to share it. It's hidden, but to save hours of reading my books of text, I'll just say that I think Toonyman has found it already. Hope that is a good enough clue, maybe I'll be alive tomorrow and it won't matter. Maybe I won't want to tell tomorrow.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 03:29:02 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:32:42 pm
Quote
You may discard one item each night if you wish. This effect happens at the end of the night and does not count as your night action. The item goes into the public pool.
In other words, using a mediocre item is better than exchanging it for an item I won't get until after the night phrase if I think I'm gonna die, since I won't be able to use it.
A truly sucky item is probably not worth using at all, or maybe self-targeting to minimize the damage. Depends on the item.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 03:34:53 pm
Webadict. I do not believe blue would be a good infovote. NQT would, but why are you changing to blue in the last hours? Blue has at least posted enough early on, NQT didn't. Explain your reasoning.
Oooh, could we have another Blue-Tric scumteam? I LOVE those. But the fact nobody has guessed it yet means its unlikely (they're so bloody obvious, after all)...
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 03:44:40 pm
Webadict. I do not believe blue would be a good infovote. NQT would, but why are you changing to blue in the last hours? Blue has at least posted enough early on, NQT didn't. Explain your reasoning.A few reasons:
1. At least one of ToonyMan, Jim, and NQT are Town, and that implies that NQT is probably Town, due to the order of defense. I'm willing to trust other people over myself in this case.
2. Blu hasn't been a part of my PoE for a whiiiiile now. They have lingering connections.
3. They were following and buddying me hard, which definitely works on me, and I think BK would probably know this.
4. Day doesn't end yet. There's always time for a swap.
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 03:48:51 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: FallacyofUrist
TricMagic:
prefuzek: EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, Jim Groovester, notquitethere, ToonyMan, webadict
webadict: TricMagic
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester: BluarianKnight
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EDT, ~4 hours from this post.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 03:54:43 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 04:00:06 pm
Looking At My Suspects #1 - Webadict
Looking At My Suspects #2 - Toony
Looking At My Suspects #3 - BluarianKnightFinally, NQT steps up as a hunter. As a sign of my appreciation I'll unvote.
It was my initial impression that Blu isn't the best of lynch targets, but I think it's fair to say I'll do a deeper read into their situation before placing my vote - or finding a different target.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 04:20:00 pm
I'm still not sold on Blue, but Web has been pretty scummy. Maybe Tric sees something we don't? They're lousy at explaining themselves, but a pretty good bloodhound.
VOTE Webadict
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 04:24:27 pm
UNVOTE... Please list the last game where TricMagic was correct about my alignment. I will wait.
I'm still not sold on Blue, but Web has been pretty scummy. Maybe Tric sees something we don't? They're lousy at explaining themselves, but a pretty good bloodhound.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 04:24:43 pm
Finally, NQT steps up as a hunter. As a sign of my appreciation I'll unvote.
It was my initial impression that Blu isn't the best of lynch targets, but I think it's fair to say I'll do a deeper read into their situation before placing my vote - or finding a different target.
Did you really have no other suspect besides NQT?
You really didn't.
UNVOTE
I'm still not sold on Blue, but Web has been pretty scummy. Maybe Tric sees something we don't? They're lousy at explaining themselves, but a pretty good bloodhound.
VOTE Webadict
What do YOU think, EuchreJack?
Not what TricMagic, Jim, web, Toony, FoU, NQT, pref, or BK think.
What do YOU think?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 05:04:51 pm
Did you really have no other suspect besides NQT?Well I had prefuzek, but my evidence for their scumminess was based on the way NQT treated them. (Even still, they're keeping distant from each other, seemingly?)
You really didn't.
So I'd rather just start fresh.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 05:39:01 pm
UNVOTE... Please list the last game where TricMagic was correct about my alignment. I will wait.
I'm still not sold on Blue, but Web has been pretty scummy. Maybe Tric sees something we don't? They're lousy at explaining themselves, but a pretty good bloodhound.
Does Revolutions III, where Tric claimed that he was 50/50 sure that you were the Commander and picked wrong count?
Anyways, sifting through the archive of previous games now...
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 05:41:44 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 05:44:37 pm
I won't be available to make my case due to family matters - I think this is a poor reactionary lynch.
I won't vote you, Blue, pinky promise.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 05:49:11 pm
That it freaking is. The sudden pivot is something I've noticed seeping into games, and I don't particularly like it. Not enough time to counter it, and the chances of it hitting scum are pretty slim apparently.I won't be available to make my case due to family matters - I think this is a poor reactionary lynch.
I won't vote you, Blue, pinky promise.
Put simply, web lied about paladin. It makes most since to use that as the basis for a lynch shift. Instead, Notquitethere is going with the wagon.
Of course, Fallacy saying they will start fresh is horid, given that would be like if Day 1 never happened.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 05:52:32 pm
UNVOTE... Please list the last game where TricMagic was correct about my alignment. I will wait.
I'm still not sold on Blue, but Web has been pretty scummy. Maybe Tric sees something we don't? They're lousy at explaining themselves, but a pretty good bloodhound.
Does Revolutions III, where Tric claimed that he was 50/50 sure that you were the Commander and picked wrong count?
Anyways, sifting through the archive of previous games now...
Pretty sure Tric was correct about your alignment in Election... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178313.0)
Reviewing the Notable Games, and ignoring the true Bastard games (such as Kill Webadict now, and Kill Webadict 2: Electric Boogaloo, names might be something else...), I have a question for Web:
@Web: In what games was Tric wrong about your alignment and NOT scum?
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 05:54:55 pm
That it freaking is. The sudden pivot is something I've noticed seeping into games, and I don't particularly like it. Not enough time to counter it, and the chances of it hitting scum are pretty slim apparently.I won't be available to make my case due to family matters - I think this is a poor reactionary lynch.
I won't vote you, Blue, pinky promise.
Put simply, web lied about paladin. It makes most since to use that as the basis for a lynch shift. Instead, Notquitethere is going with the wagon.
Of course, Fallacy saying they will start fresh is horid, given that would be like if Day 1 never happened.
@Tric: Totally expected you to do that. At least you waited for a bit. Any chance you'll switch back to Web?
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 05:59:41 pm
I think I hit the nail in the coffin - and Scum decided to push my lynch hard.. Jim/Toony or Jim/NQT - albeit NQT was already laying out multiple suspects, so I think it's Toony and Jim, personally.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 06:06:19 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:07:41 pm
UNVOTE
Vote prefuzek
That is who I think people should be voting. I'll review whether I think NQT is more likely scum than Blue, but I'm getting a bit worried that both might just possibly be a mislynch. There, my actual opinion.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:09:45 pm
Something to note - I got hit HARD right after finally making my own claiim.What do you mean? Voting Jim?
I think I hit the nail in the coffin - and Scum decided to push my lynch hard.. Jim/Toony or Jim/NQT - albeit NQT was already laying out multiple suspects, so I think it's Toony and Jim, personally.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:14:30 pm
Dumb question - Toaster - Can I use an action before lynched?
My opinion, for what its worth, is that you'll probably want to ask that of Toaster in PM. While ordinarily I'm a big advocate for everyone knowing everything, it will be difficult for Toaster and you to get the answer to that question without either of you revealing what that action might be, since it varies so much based upon the action.
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 06:14:55 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: TricMagic
TricMagic:
prefuzek: EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, Jim Groovester, notquitethere, ToonyMan, webadict
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester: BluarianKnight
ToonyMan:
Not Voting: FallacyofUrist
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EDT, ~4 hours from this post.
Dumb question - Toaster - Can I use an action before lynched?
Only if it's a day action.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:17:24 pm
For shame.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:18:16 pm
Join me Jack and Tric.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 06:22:51 pm
WebadictThe dark side?
Join me Jack and Tric.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:27:05 pm
WebadictThe dark side?
Join me Jack and Tric.
I'll consider it, but what arguments do you have? I'll even give you a token FOS Webadict.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:27:59 pm
@Euchre: Anybody that SK hunts is mafia, we don't need that.The problem is that all the mindfuckery and chaff makes it significantly harder to read Webadict at all. Could be intentional.It's harder to fake genuine reactions to new situations.
I still think we start with notquitethere for the moment, but I'll need to make some more posts - reacting to NQT's new content.I'm expecting you to use your brain and think things through. Everything is a test about genuineness.What point do the tests serve, though?
At this point Web said the above, which would have scared mafia from ever mentioning SK again.
BluScum voting with scum to start a bandwagon isn't a hard stretch - I've seen you do it before as scum.I agree, such things do happen. If you lynch me and when I flip town, who will you say the scum were on my wagon?
Why didn't you like Tric to begin with? What exactly is the argument from Tric and Web that you find so compelling?
If you're town? I'm not sure this is a scum train - FoU started it, but he has a decent reason for his suspicions.
Also - just realized, you call my votes OMGUS - but you could say that FoU OMGUS you as well, yet you've ignored him going after you once you voted him?
Just a thought.
As well - I didn't like his competency - but that's kind of a shit thing to vote on only - others have stated it, but I shouldn't vote a competent player for being competent - and his walls and reads have proven to me he's town-lean. As for why they've convinced me?
Tric and Web both laid out their beliefs and opinions, and possible scum-teams. I think Pref is scum by his interactions, and your connections (voting alongside, friendly relations as mentioned in previous posts), have combined to lead me to think you're not town-aligned.Euchre pulling his weight.
Also - this? This is some good fucking scum-hunting - I think he's scum, but this is a decent chunk of evidence that he might be SK.
Gonna post my thoughts later, getting pulled away - and I've already delayed this post all day.
also -
EuchreJack - Why do you think you're going to be dead tomorrow?
fakeeddit: I keep getting ninja'd ;-;
Blue is not afraid to discuss Serial Killers. Would Scum risk discussing SKs?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:34:30 pm
Nobody giving credit for Blue for going after Jim, whom nobody seems interested in lynching, versus jumping onto NQT or prefuzek, and possibly surviving?This is a fair point.
For shame.
Web throws shade on me and NQT if Blue flips town, then says FoU is the most likely partner if Blue flips scum:
This is either a really blatant save by mafia!ToonyMan to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.(maybe)They can't all three be scum.
BluarianKnight. This is like my third pick, so it's probably right. And if not, NQT or ToonyMan dies Tomorrow.
I would like to point out if BK is scum, their partner is probably FoU. TricMagic doesn't fit, and everyone else shifted the train onto BK.Which is it?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:35:45 pm
Blue is not afraid to discuss Serial Killers. Would Scum risk discussing SKs?Yes they would. In fact, mafia would love to hunt for SKs instead.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 06:38:08 pm
Fuck it - Webadict.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:38:18 pm
Web throws shade on me and NQT if Blue flips town, then says FoU is the most likely partner if Blue flips scum:That doesn't actually make sense does it, whoops. I just mean Web feels pretty chain-lynchy here which is lazy.This is either a really blatant save by mafia!ToonyMan to help mafia!NQT or the NQT wagon is a mislynch.(maybe)They can't all three be scum.
BluarianKnight. This is like my third pick, so it's probably right. And if not, NQT or ToonyMan dies Tomorrow.I would like to point out if BK is scum, their partner is probably FoU. TricMagic doesn't fit, and everyone else shifted the train onto BK.Which is it?
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 06:39:52 pm
Anyway, when I fucking obviously flip Town, please launch ToonyMan for being incredibly bad.
webadict
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:40:23 pm
The fact you aren't sitting on me is interesting..You're around to vote Web, but not answer my question towards you?
Fuck it - Webadict.
Lmao, you guys are really fucking stupid. I'm okay with it, vote me out.lol
Anyway, when I fucking obviously flip Town, please launch ToonyMan for being incredibly bad.
webadict
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:43:03 pm
Lmao, you guys are really fucking stupid. I'm okay with it, vote me out.
Anyway, when I fucking obviously flip Town, please launch ToonyMan for being incredibly bad.
webadict
Nevermind I guess...
UNVOTE
Vote Webadict
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 06:43:37 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 06:45:30 pm
Do you think my vote is going to stick on you Web? You probably feel like it isn't which is why you're self-voting.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 06:49:57 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 06:50:24 pm
Feels like a bluff, Web isn't dumb enough to thunderdome me if he's town since he can probably tell I'm town and this would ruin town's chances of winning the game. In other words, this only makes sense for mafia!Web to say since he knows I'm town and wants me to back off of him.I'll take Things ToonyMan Can't Read for $600.
Do you think my vote is going to stick on you Web? You probably feel like it isn't which is why you're self-voting.
The point is it doesn't really matter. I am busy, and this day has taken way too much time, and if we fucking vote literally anyone, it's gonna be more useful than playing the ToonyMan poke game.
You're going to either figure out I'm Town and try to steer the vote away from me, or you're gonna double down. And if you flip me, I'm calling for your head, because you have been jumping around too much.
Is this me Bluffing? Nah, I have thiiiiiings to dooooooooo. Also, I am a Paladin, lol.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 06:51:22 pm
Lmao, you guys are really fucking stupid. I'm okay with it, vote me out.
Anyway, when I fucking obviously flip Town, please launch ToonyMan for being incredibly bad.
webadict
This is hilarious but premature. Day roughly ends in 2.5ish hours I think.
I don't even want to vote you, why are you giving up?
I honestly have got other shit to do, so if everyone's gonna suspect me, I don't really have time to deal with it, and we're gonna play merry-go-launch anyway, so let's just fucking end the day, hoooooooooooooly shit.
Alright, fair enough. The end of day lottery of who the wagon steers onto is kind of stupid.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 06:53:03 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 06:55:09 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
prefuzek:
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, Jim Groovester, notquitethere
webadict: ToonyMan, BluarianKnight, webadict, EuchreJack, TricMagic
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting: FallacyofUrist
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EDT, ~65 minutes from this post.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:00:38 pm
Why would you invest so much into this game only to go out in self-destruction?Feels like a bluff, Web isn't dumb enough to thunderdome me if he's town since he can probably tell I'm town and this would ruin town's chances of winning the game. In other words, this only makes sense for mafia!Web to say since he knows I'm town and wants me to back off of him.I'll take Things ToonyMan Can't Read for $600.
Do you think my vote is going to stick on you Web? You probably feel like it isn't which is why you're self-voting.
The point is it doesn't really matter. I am busy, and this day has taken way too much time, and if we fucking vote literally anyone, it's gonna be more useful than playing the ToonyMan poke game.
You're going to either figure out I'm Town and try to steer the vote away from me, or you're gonna double down. And if you flip me, I'm calling for your head, because you have been jumping around too much.
Is this me Bluffing? Nah, I have thiiiiiings to dooooooooo. Also, I am a Paladin, lol.
I don't get it.
If you were busy you wouldn't even have played as much as you have so far.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:03:14 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:04:05 pm
Feels like a ploy to spook town. I think this is a calculated move based on their actions through the day.Lmao, you guys are really fucking stupid. I'm okay with it, vote me out.
Anyway, when I fucking obviously flip Town, please launch ToonyMan for being incredibly bad.
webadict
This is hilarious but premature. Day roughly ends in 2.5ish hours I think.
I don't even want to vote you, why are you giving up?
I don't plan on sticking with the Web vote. If Web votes Blue again I'll switch back. I also strongly dislike big wagon swings an hour before day end.I honestly have got other shit to do, so if everyone's gonna suspect me, I don't really have time to deal with it, and we're gonna play merry-go-launch anyway, so let's just fucking end the day, hoooooooooooooly shit.Alright, fair enough. The end of day lottery of who the wagon steers onto is kind of stupid.
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 07:11:15 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:12:05 pm
Webadict
Join me Jack and Tric.
I don't plan on sticking with the Web vote. If Web votes Blue again I'll switch back. I also strongly dislike big wagon swings an hour before day end.
What are you trying to do, ToonyMan?
You got people to vote webadict with you and now you don't like it because webadict is voting himself?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:13:02 pm
@FallacyofUrist: I'm getting really confused by all this, any chance you might be able weigh in? I'd hate to lynch the wrong person. I mean, Web's self-defeatist attitude sounds like a scum play, but Blue and ToonyMan seem like an realistic scumteam. Please help.Okay, sure.
BluarianKnight and webadict are the current wagons. Previous candidates included prefuzek, notquitethere, and TricMagic.
Webadict seems... unstable, like poorly playing audacious town. Playing like I used to a few years back, basically. I don't think he's the ideal candidate here. I think his emotions are genuine - and it sucks that we're even considering the possibility of that kind of defeatism being faked as a scum tactic in the first place. But that's mafia for you.
Notquitethere seems like a decent enough candidate, but he finally contributed some substantial scumhunting, and I don't want to punish that kind of behavior.
TricMagic's wagon was just based on him playing uncharacteristically well.
Prefuzek I still haven't dug into enough.
Toony is slightly more active.
Note that both prefuzek and notquitethere are on Bluarian.
Candidates absolutely nobody has considered for a lynch: me, Jim Groovester.
I don't think your reasoning for clearing Blue is substantial enough, but I do think there's more to the argument for not voting Blue than has been brought up.
Anyways bandwagon time! Let's go! prefuzek
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:14:11 pm
Unvote
Vote prefuzek!!!!!
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:15:31 pm
I was curious who was okay with killing Web today.Webadict
Join me Jack and Tric.I don't plan on sticking with the Web vote. If Web votes Blue again I'll switch back. I also strongly dislike big wagon swings an hour before day end.What are you trying to do, ToonyMan?
You got people to vote webadict with you and now you don't like it because webadict is voting himself?
Anyways bandwagon time! Let's go! prefuzekNo. Also 1000+ scum points for pulling this exact shit in BYOR15 as mafia.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:16:35 pm
NQT is acting how I expect him to behave as town heading towards a mislynch. I haven't seen a solid case on him besides web's here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283765#msg8283765) The SK case and FoU's case are truly awful. I wish I had more to say here but I'm running out of time.
People voting NQT: Can give you give your condensed reasoning for your vote?
Or, more simply, keep you alive and use you to lynch more town... You're smarter than this Euchre, think it through. You're in tunnel mode, twisting everything to fit a pattern you've decided upon. Step back a moment.Except this time I'm actually going to make a case. A pretty last minute one, but as you can see, there are some... similarities, here.
What reasons do you have for thinking Prefuzek is scum other than the fact I'm townreading them? When I flip town, are you going to go back to Tric... or?
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:20:53 pm
NQT is acting how I expect him to behave as town heading towards a mislynch. I haven't seen a solid case on him besides web's here. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283765#msg8283765) The SK case and FoU's case are truly awful. I wish I had more to say here but I'm running out of time.
People voting NQT: Can give you give your condensed reasoning for your vote?Or, more simply, keep you alive and use you to lynch more town... You're smarter than this Euchre, think it through. You're in tunnel mode, twisting everything to fit a pattern you've decided upon. Step back a moment.Except this time I'm actually going to make a case. A pretty last minute one, but as you can see, there are some... similarities, here.
What reasons do you have for thinking Prefuzek is scum other than the fact I'm townreading them? When I flip town, are you going to go back to Tric... or?
I understand time is limited and you're busy getting a push together, but with this above, are you trying to get me NOT to vote Prefuzek?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:23:02 pm
Bluarian - Had an OMGUS type vote on Jack (who admittedly wasn't making any sense) and then joined the Tric wagon for reasons unknown.
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Bluarianprefuzek - I haven't seen you around before, have you played this format before?As in Roguelike? No. I've played forum mafia here a long time ago though, and I've been lurking on and off ever since.
Why have you done nothing today but echo other peoples points and push on a misplay by an obvious town player?
I understand time is limited and you're busy getting a push together, but with this above, are you trying to get me NOT to vote Prefuzek?I'm saying to vote prefuzek.
NQT and prefuzek are both defending each other and attacking the same target, for starters.
I'll stake my (in-game) life on it. If prefuzek is executed today and isn't scum, then vote me off tomorrow.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 07:25:09 pm
The fact you aren't sitting on me is interesting..You're around to vote Web, but not answer my question towards you?
Fuck it - Webadict.Lmao, you guys are really fucking stupid. I'm okay with it, vote me out.lol
Anyway, when I fucking obviously flip Town, please launch ToonyMan for being incredibly bad.
webadict
I'm on a phone. I've been keeping tabs and replying when I can
Seeing as you have no real will to push Web - alright, I'd rather not be lynched last minute because you decided to pull out.
FoU, I like your cut - and since I still feel Pref..
prefuzek
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:26:54 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:27:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:29:59 pm
Everyone I find suspicious is trying to steer a wagon onto prefuzek.You think FoU is pushing Perf now because pushing NQT didn't work?
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:31:13 pm
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
BluarianKnight:Mind explaining to me what you find so suspicious about this? And why you didn't follow up on it?Right now it's NQT, Jack, and I'd say you, prefuzek. Though the last is more not knowing you to base reads off of, it just feels like a weird playstyle you're using.*ALARMS BLARING*
WEEE WOOO WEEE WOO
Yeah, agreed - the fuck?
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I'm going to inspect you and claim I got Mafia regardless of what I actually get.In that case I'm going to end this conversation, since I don't want to vote you today and I'm sure we'll have plenty to chat about D2.
I want you to realize that I am crazy enough to actually do that.
prefuzek, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: Webadict would totally claim to inspect you and claim they got Mafia regardless of what they actually get, then 2 hours later explain that they fully intended to give the true results.
I want you to realize that he is crazy enough to actually do that.
He also tests people. Guess what? You failed!
OK? I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do with that information. I have to assume that if webadict is town, they're going to play in a pro-town way.
I'm guessing web's still just trying to see how flappable I am. I will not be flapped.
OK, my case on webadict:
First, town webadict is probably not actually going to follow through on his gambit, since if we don't lynch scum today that would lose town the game given two scum (three mislynches = town loss). web recognizes this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283380#msg8283380) Now, compare that to the advice he's giving to EuchreJack this game:Town players can suspect each other all day long. It doesn't make them not Town. Heck, I'm voting you, and I don't think you're scum. But, the problem here is that you're actively making the game harder by doing shenanigans.
I know it's hard to understand why my shenanigans are different. But, if you'd please, list out what my shenanigans were this game and how they contributed to the current gamestate, and then do the same for yours. I want you to list how useful they've been, and the pros and cons of said actions were.
I don't actually mind shenanigans, but some of yours have no intended purpose behind them, and lulnanigans are sorta anti-Town.
So, a town webadict must be doing this to get a better read on me based on my reaction. This is consistent with his play so far; he's tried three different strategies recently to get an idea of how I play:
1. A naked vote (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283288#msg8283288)
2. An agressive case (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283322#msg8283322)
3. A stupid threat (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283327#msg8283327)
This is all fine. The issue is, he's planning on inspecting me tonight. Why bother? Why only pressure the person you claim you're going to inspect?
Also, the case on me is weak. I explained why I wasn't voting him, the argument that I'm trying to avoid attention makes no sense since I was the one who came out swinging on him, and he accuses me of buddying Jack while being perfectly fine with Toony doing it[./url]
(http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283200#msg8283200)
BluarianKnight:
Case on web is above. You I have a less solid case on, but it seems to me like you're playing pretty safe and you haven't really done any work towards figuring things out. For example, lots of hedging here:QuoteMaybe my read's wrong then entirely - if you both are town, I'd have to gander a guess to Toony and.. maybe someone else. I'm not sure yet.
Not knowing Tric's meta, I can't say for sure how good your case is on them, but arguing that they're playing too well seems wrong.QuoteRight now, I think it's only a tiny clue - by itself worthless, but I also kinda wanted to jump in on the shenanigans.How you describe it here doesn't match your reaction in the moment very well.
Why did you assume that my scumread on you and my scumread on webadict were linked?
EuchreJack:@prefuzek: Why are you still voting Blue if you have a "less solid case"? Please post your reads immediately. Who is more likely scum, Web or Blue?
@Web: Why are you not calling out Prefuzek for continuing to vote Blue, when it seems they think you are the more likely scum? I'm sure you could be making this argument better than I am!
I've explained this. (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283325#msg8283325) My reads list hasn't really changed since the only people who've posted substance since then are you, BluarianKnight, webadict, and myself. I'm really waiting on something from Jim, NQT, and Toony.
A BluarianKnight/webadict scumteam does make sense at this point. BK's been really pockety of web recently, and has read me as scum for thisQuoteHe's been playing off Euchrejack for a while, I'd believe a Tric/Prefuzek scumteam. As well, he's been hyper-focusing on some players, and calling some folks out while ignoring other players entirely.
when webadict has been doing both those things just as much as I have. Also, BK has never addressed a question to web. Their first real interaction is this (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283380#msg8283380), which I could easily interpret as the more experienced scum trying to get some in-thread interaction with their partner.
Webadict right now is using a "Refuge in Webadictiness" strategy. Imagine a new player coming in, doing the things web's done, and not getting lynched D1.
Bit of a rush, so sorry if anything is out of order or missing. Basically, Prefuzek has done a good job of trying to look like he's scumhunting, but without actually doing any scumhunting.
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 07:31:59 pm
Wow this is a messy end of day. I'd still rather lynch Bluarian, but IMO web's self-vote makes it look like it's both of them. I agree with Toony that it's probably calculated either way. I'm a little lost at this point but at least there'll be lots of interesting stuff to go through on Day 2.There is a major issue with this Prefuzek, web doesn't do that. It just doesn't happen with him, he'd either fall under the bus or bus someone. I don't ever recall the first though.
Ninjad.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:32:30 pm
Same. Also wanted to see who would vote for me and why. I mean, worst case scenario is I get elimmed, but likeI was curious who was okay with killing Web today.Webadict
Join me Jack and Tric.I don't plan on sticking with the Web vote. If Web votes Blue again I'll switch back. I also strongly dislike big wagon swings an hour before day end.What are you trying to do, ToonyMan?
You got people to vote webadict with you and now you don't like it because webadict is voting himself?
Why would you invest so much into this game only to go out in self-destruction?Because the past is behind us and the future is now? I don't play using past time.
I don't get it.
If you were busy you wouldn't even have played as much as you have so far.
You could just switch back to NQT Webadict, I have little clue why you decided to play this game of lying and truthbreaking.Because.
Feels like a ploy to spook town. I think this is a calculated move based on their actions through the day.Yep, ToonyMan's got it again. I'm doing this to throw off the attackers from my scum partner by...
I don't plan on sticking with the Web vote. If Web votes Blue again I'll switch back. I also strongly dislike big wagon swings an hour before day end.
Wait, that's a fucking stupid plan!
Just end my tortured existence, I'm doing you all a favor, you'll all get to play with fun items!
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:33:42 pm
Everyone I find suspicious is trying to steer a wagon onto prefuzek.You think FoU is pushing Perf now because pushing NQT didn't work?
FoU barely has a case on prefuzek and what he has still looks like a derivative of his NQT tunnel.
Honestly if I thought I could get FoU I might go for him.
Okay and now EuchreJack and TricMagic are bandwagoning literally anybody.
I fucking hate the end of Day 1.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:34:22 pm
Okay and now EuchreJack and TricMagic are bandwagoning literally anybody.
And BK too. Can't forget him either.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:35:03 pm
Oh no. Anyways.
As a matter of fact, yes I am. I'll fully admit to it. I have to consider the credibility factor here. The odds of everyone going for an NQT execution are less than the odds of everyone going for a prefuzek execution, because NQT's actually stepped up his game and started contributing something. Prefuzek, as Euchre points out, is playing a somewhat more passive game, however.Everyone I find suspicious is trying to steer a wagon onto prefuzek.You think FoU is pushing Perf now because pushing NQT didn't work?
But the pattern of NQT and Prefuzek's interactions remains.
Yep, ToonyMan's got it again. I'm doing this to throw off the attackers from my scum partner by...If you're town, just do the optimal thing and vote whoever you think is 1, scummiest, and 2, most likely to get voted off. The intersection of those two factors. I'd call 1 the more important factor normally, but it's near day end, so...
Wait, that's a fucking stupid plan!
Just end my tortured existence, I'm doing you all a favor, you'll all get to play with fun items!
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:36:36 pm
UNVOTE
Vote FallacyofUrist
End of day was after all just one colossal test of FOU anyways...
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:36:39 pm
Just end my tortured existenceI'm trying
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 07:37:14 pm
Achievement Get: Sus!And that pattern can't be denied. I still want to push a NQT lynch, but given recent posts from prez.
Oh no. Anyways.As a matter of fact, yes I am. I'll fully admit to it. I have to consider the credibility factor here. The odds of everyone going for an NQT execution are less than the odds of everyone going for a prefuzek execution, because NQT's actually stepped up his game and started contributing something. Prefuzek, as Euchre points out, is playing a somewhat more passive game, however.Everyone I find suspicious is trying to steer a wagon onto prefuzek.You think FoU is pushing Perf now because pushing NQT didn't work?
But the pattern of NQT and Prefuzek's interactions remains.
Also, I did quote a post with my vote.
Ninnin.
Jack, vote Prez or I vote you. How's that?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:39:11 pm
Okay and now EuchreJack and TricMagic are bandwagoning literally anybody.Mainly it's just momentum. Euchre was desperate for a ray of light in the darkness, so he followed me as soon as I voted. Blue saw a better alternative to the execution of someone he thought was town, so he joined in. Tric saw a sudden three person bandwagon and decided to join in. And now we have a sudden four person wagon near day end. Still not enough to execute prefuzek, but it's close.
If I have to ask, what substantial scumhunting contribution has Prefuzek made, Jim? Furthermore, do you deny that both NQT and Pref have both defended each other and attacked the same target near day end?
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:39:20 pm
yeah, this is getting too swingy even for me.
UNVOTE
VOTE Prefuzek
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:41:11 pm
Speaking of sheeping:For goodness sakes' make up your mind. Who do you think is scummier: me, Bluarian, Prefuzek, or webadict? I still think it's Prefuzek out of those four.
UNVOTE
Vote FallacyofUrist
End of day was after all just one colossal test of FOU anyways...
What, nobody wants to vote FOU?Okay then.
yeah, this is getting too swingy even for me.
UNVOTE
VOTE Prefuzek
prefuzek one more time for good measure.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:41:56 pm
Jack, vote Prez or I vote you. How's that?
And wow, not only do Tric and I agree, but Tric's willing to threaten me to keep me onboard. Not sure what that means, but it means something.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:42:12 pm
I know, I don't actually think you're scum anymore for trying. But, I do think it points suspicion at FoU.Just end my tortured existenceI'm trying
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 07:43:03 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
prefuzek: FallacyofUrist, BluarianKnight, TricMagic, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, Jim Groovester, notquitethere
webadict: ToonyMan, webadict
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EDT, ~18 minutes from this post.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:43:55 pm
Hm.
Is it pref?
Is it FoU?
Is it NQT?
Who the fuck is scum?!?!
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:44:26 pm
If I have to ask, what substantial scumhunting contribution has Prefuzek made, Jim? Furthermore, do you deny that both NQT and Pref have both defended each other and attacked the same target near day end?
You're forgetting I spent most of the day voting prefuzek. I think he's suspicious, but I also think you're suspicious, and you pushing him so late in the day makes me more suspicious.
Jim, if you want, I'll vote FoU if we can't keep the web-train going. I think
Deal.
FallacyofUrist.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:44:52 pm
FallacyofUristIf I have to ask, what substantial scumhunting contribution has Prefuzek made, Jim? Furthermore, do you deny that both NQT and Pref have both defended each other and attacked the same target near day end?
You're forgetting I spent most of the day voting prefuzek. I think he's suspicious, but I also think you're suspicious, and you pushing him so late in the day makes me more suspicious.Jim, if you want, I'll vote FoU if we can't keep the web-train going. I think
Deal.
FallacyofUrist.
The pact is honored!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:46:05 pm
I know, I don't actually think you're scum anymore for trying. But, I do think it points suspicion at FoU.Buddy, voting me would still be far better than wasting your vote on yourself.
But if you're going to vote me, at least throw together some quick reasoning about it, like I did for prefuzek.
1: He and NQT have defended each other and attacked the same person near day end (as can be seen in the current vote count)
2: Passive scum hunting, see weak case on web, switching to Blu for whatever reason
3: 'Wait to Day 2' over and over
4: Never gave any justification for his reads list (even though he's had days to do so now)
Reads! No justification for now, sorry.
Town:
EuchreJack
FallacyofUrist
Null (not enough content):
ToonyMan
Jim Groovester
Null (can't decide):
Tricmagic
NQT
Scum:
Bluarianknight
webadict
So yeah, I think he's a better execution target than Bluarian or webadict.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:46:08 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:47:03 pm
FallacyofUristwtf is this game
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:47:36 pm
FallacyofUrist
Since the whole point of all this was to test FOU. Why'd you think I voted Web twice? Hm? Calling out for help like a stupid helpless sheep? Hm?
Post by: Mamobo on June 01, 2021, 07:48:01 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
BluarianKnight - 2 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284261#msg8284261), prefuzek* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283305#msg8283305),
EuchreJack - 0 -
FallacyofUrist - 4 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284420#msg8284420), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284416#msg8284416), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284415#msg8284415), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284418#msg8284418),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
prefuzek - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284400#msg8284400), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284395#msg8284395), FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284410#msg8284410),
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on June 01, 2021 at 22:00 CDT (2 hours and 11 minutes remaining.)
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:48:17 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:49:18 pm
UNVOTEAm I really scummier than prefuzek? At least I've actively hunted. (Even if it was only on one or two people)
FallacyofUrist
Since the whole point of all this was to test FOU. Why'd you think I voted Web twice? Hm? Calling out for help like a stupid helpless sheep? Hm?
UNVOTE... you're trying to be webadict. Good grief that's not the role model you want. He's a decent player, but he's also crazy.
FallacyofUrist
Since the whole point of all this was to test FOU. Why'd you think I voted Web twice? Hm? Calling out for help like a stupid helpless sheep? Hm?
Pick a decent player who's not crazy, like Jim, and vote who they vote for.
... wait. Uh, no, wait, no, vote pref instead. Because I said so. And because I have four reasons which I just gave.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:49:43 pm
@FallacyofUrist: I'm getting really confused by all this, any chance you might be able weigh in? I'd hate to lynch the wrong person. I mean, Web's self-defeatist attitude sounds like a scum play, but Blue and ToonyMan seem like an realistic scumteam. Please help.
bwah ha ha, you totally fell for it!
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:50:12 pm
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 07:51:13 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:51:36 pm
I don't actually really know.
I don't even know what's happening.
I kinda feel bad, which is why I voted myself to begin with. I am totally clueless.
I mean, if the choice is between a stupid wagon on FoU and a stupid wagon on me, I'll go with FallacyofUrist.............. I wanna vote this.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:52:03 pm
I mean, if the choice is between a stupid wagon on FoU and a stupid wagon on me, I'll go with FallacyofUrist.Yeah, he's scum. Vote him Day 2, okay? I'll appreciate it from my spot in deadchat.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:52:43 pm
But if you're going to vote me, at least throw together some quick reasoning about it, like I did for prefuzek.
FoU even though this is directed at webadict I'll do you a solid and throw in my reasoning.
FallacyofUrist - Has sat on their NQT READS BAD case for the duration of the game. Has added NQT DEFENDING HIMSELF BAD to his NQT case. Has literally just been tunneling all day on NQT.
Prior to you showing up at the end of the day you were by far the player with the least amount of stuff to his name.
You ought to try and convince Jack or Tric if you want me executed. I don't think Blue will switch at this point, and if the votes stay as they are, it's 4 on pref, 3 on me, and 2 on Blu.
. . .
Pick a decent player who's not crazy, like Jim, and vote who they vote for.
... wait. Uh, no, wait, no, vote pref instead. Because I said so. And because I have four reasons which I just gave.
lmao this game
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:52:57 pm
Post by: Mamobo on June 01, 2021, 07:53:03 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
BluarianKnight - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284261#msg8284261),
EuchreJack - 0 -
FallacyofUrist - 5 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284420#msg8284420), prefuzek* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284426#msg8284426), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284416#msg8284416), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284415#msg8284415), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284418#msg8284418),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
prefuzek - 3 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284400#msg8284400), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284395#msg8284395), FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284410#msg8284410),
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on June 01, 2021 at 20:00 CDT (0 hours and 6 minutes remaining.)
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 07:54:10 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:54:23 pm
FoU, full claim and I'll vote Pref.... I agree. I wanna vote with Jim, but I think perf just did a scum move.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 01, 2021, 07:54:56 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 01, 2021, 07:55:19 pm
Don't let prefuzek and notquitethere fly under the radar tomorrow. And make ToonyMan post more. I think he's townie but he needs to put in a bit more work if he has the time. Jack, stop trying to be webadict. Be Jim or Blue instead. Blue, good luck, you and Jim are the towniest of the bunch to me.
NQT? Prefuzek? You're not gonna win this. The town will defeat you, and I will have my revengeeeee!
Did I miss anyone? Oh yeah, Tric.
You're doing great, buddy. As in much better than you were doing before this game, and before the game before this game. You've improved and I'm proud of you for it. Don't forget to use your brain.
Imma log off and go eat dinner now, folks. See you all later.
FoU, full claim and I'll vote Pref.Town Archeologist. No items currently.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:55:40 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 07:55:46 pm
(https://comps.canstockphoto.com/cartoon-funny-sheep-holding-blank-sign-vector-clipart_csp76817300.jpg)
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:56:24 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:56:41 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:56:53 pm
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 07:57:16 pm
Post by: Mamobo on June 01, 2021, 07:57:24 pm
Vote Count
------------------------
BluarianKnight - 1 - notquitethere* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284261#msg8284261),
EuchreJack - 0 -
FallacyofUrist - 3 - EuchreJack* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284420#msg8284420), prefuzek* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284426#msg8284426), Jim Groovester* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284415#msg8284415),
Jim Groovester - 0 -
notquitethere - 0 -
prefuzek - 5 - TricMagic* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284400#msg8284400), BluarianKnight* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284395#msg8284395), webadict* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284441#msg8284441), FallacyofUrist* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284410#msg8284410), ToonyMan* (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284440#msg8284440),
ToonyMan - 0 -
TricMagic - 0 -
webadict - 0 -
No Lynch - 0 -
Not Voting - 0 -
Day ends on June 01, 2021 at 20:00 CDT (0 hours and 2 minutes remaining.)
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 07:57:45 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
prefuzek: FallacyofUrist, BluarianKnight, TricMagic, ToonyMan, webadict,
BluarianKnight: notquitethere
webadict:
FallacyofUrist: Jim Groovester, EuchreJack, prefuzek,
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EDT, two minutes from this post.
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:57:52 pm
You absolute buffoons.CLAIM!
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 07:58:03 pm
(Web, I am fully within right to meme on jack.)
Post by: prefuzek on June 01, 2021, 07:58:24 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:58:41 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:58:45 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 01, 2021, 07:59:04 pm
FallacyofUrist: What class did you pick, and why?Archeologist. I liked the idea of having a higher chance to find Artifacts.But seriously, want to tell us your two items? It's the only way to prove you're a bard.I'm sorry, but how does claiming what his items are prove he's a bard? This feels fishy. As in itemfishing-y. If you have reasoning, I'd love to hear it. Furthermore, how does proving he's a bard point to whether he's town or mafia?You... are townlean. Ish. Maybe null. Tough call.Wait, web, why do you always make reads so early?Oh, and I'll take this time to say I'm a Paladin, so inspects are useless on me.Paladin is an interesting double-edged sword. A free inspection scroll, but in return, inspects are useless on you. I'd say it's most powerful when only one or two people pick it, and less powerful when there's many people picking it. Would anyone else care to claim Paladin as well? We need to get that set out as a baseline before anyone with inspection starts to use it.
Anyone else that'd like to claim so now, please do so.
Personally, I don't even think picking Paladin is indicative of alignment. There's reasons for both town and mafia to pick it, and reasons for both town and mafia to not pick it. I'll prefer to focus on behavior.Fallacy, should we no-lynch today?Unless you know something I don't, no. Not in the slightest. Even with the Roguelike Mafia stuff, I don't think that's a good idea. Lynching, execution, whatever you prefer to call it - it's still the town's greatest source of information. Who's taken down, and how, in hindsight, people interacted with regards to the fallen.
If there were no viable candidates by day end, I'd be willing to consider it, but something makes me doubt that will happen.
Why would you ask this?BluearianKnight, Vector isn't in the game yet so are you scum? If Vector replaces into the game will you become scum?... what even is this question, buddy. Seriously, I'd like an explanation.
webadict, because reasons.
Yep. Toony, why you asking something that was already known?
I'm that, not you.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:59:06 pm
Post by: EuchreJack on June 01, 2021, 07:59:11 pm
Honestly I'm pretty sure FoU claimed beginning of day, so why you asking for a roleflip?
(Web, I am fully within right to meme on jack.)
Agreed!
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 01, 2021, 07:59:27 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 01, 2021, 07:59:32 pm
Post by: webadict on June 01, 2021, 07:59:39 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 08:01:01 pm
Flavor and your item gains shortly; prefuzek was lynched and he is Town
Post by: Toaster on June 01, 2021, 08:19:17 pm
EuchreJack:
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
prefuzek: FallacyofUrist, BluarianKnight, TricMagic, EuchreJack, Jim Groovester
BluarianKnight: notquitethere
webadict: ToonyMan
FallacyofUrist: prefuzek, webadict
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
The group headed into the crypts, following the directions they were given as best they could. Several times the group heads into a dead end and is forced to turn around. There are even more narrow twists and turns, and opportunities for someone to duck away unnoticed for a minute or two. Many suspicious glances are exchanged, and all remember the words of the bishop…
Eventually the group comes to an open cavern. Beyond the entrance they came in, there is an obvious fork. Much like the other times this happened, an argument begins on which way is the correct path. Unlike the other times, this argument rapidly degenerates into accusations on who is working against the group.
The accusations fly back and forth, and after many twists and turns, a consensus is reached- it must be Prefuzek. He begins to shake.
“No!” he cries. “I am merely a Bard from the next town over! I just wanted to learn! I hate undead! I’m innocent!”
His cries move no one. He is shoved backwards and beaten; soon he says no more. A search of his body merely corroborates his story, though; the only secret notes he has on him are musical ones.
It seems you have failed to root out any opposition. What will come as you bed down for the night?
Prefuzek has been lynched! He was a Bard (Town).
Night 1 has begun! Night 1 will last until Wednesday, 6/2 at 10 PM EDT.
Post by: Toaster on June 02, 2021, 08:21:21 pm
It’s not long before the accusations fly.
EuchreJack has been killed! He was a Merchant (Town).
Day 2 has begun! Day 1 will last until Monday, 6/7 at 10 PM EST.
There are seven items in the public pool.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 02, 2021, 08:24:49 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 08:27:36 pm
That leaves TricMagic as my top suspect of this kill.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 08:32:35 pm
Strong Town
notquitethere - likely town, strong synergy with town Pref
EuchreJack - probably town, spewing like crazy
Weak Town
FallacyofUrist - probably town, staked their life on Pref being scum even though they were wrong, claimed Archaeologist
Jim Groovester - probably town, defended NQT from FoU
Not Sure
TricMagic - maybe scummy, claimed Random Bard (just like Pref), they could actually just be playing better than they usually do as town
Suspicious
BluarianKnight - scummy, no excuses
webadict - scummy, claims Paladin when they feel like it
I have reason to believe neither Web or Blue did the obvtown Jack kill.
So unless TricMagic can convince me that the mafia are Jim/NQT I want them dead today. Their partner is likely Blue or Web.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 02, 2021, 08:35:58 pm
Web and Blue most likely did not perform this kill.Justification?
I attempted to target Jim Groovester, but had my target changed to ToonyMan. If whoever did the redirecting could claim, that would let us remove someone from the 'might have performed the kill' pool.
FallacyofUrist - probably town, staked their life on Pref being scum even though they were wrong, claimed ArchaeologistWell, as promised. FallacyofUrist. Clearly I don't deserve to have my own vote.
I'm not going to just do nothing, though. Even though, for obvious reasons, I fucked up, I still need to put in the effort to try and figure out who the murderers among us are.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 08:38:39 pm
I blocked Web last night and I know that somebody randomized Blue's target, which means that if Blue was the killer it makes it unlikely that Blue ended up on the very obvious intended target of Jack again. Possible, but unlikely.Web and Blue most likely did not perform this kill.Justification?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 08:39:53 pm
I attempted to target Jim Groovester, but had my target changed to ToonyMan. If whoever did the redirecting could claim, that would let us remove someone from the 'might have performed the kill' pool.If somebody could confirm this that would be great.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 08:56:27 pm
There are six items in the public pool.
Day 2 start:
There are six items in the public pool.
Rules:
3. There is a pool of public items. This pool starts out containing six random items, at least two of which are guaranteed to be uncommon or better. When a player dies, their items will go into this pool. At day start, a random common item will be removed from the pool. The contents of this pool are not known, but I will post a count of the items at day start.
4. During the day, you will automatically quest for an item, and you will receive it at the end of the day after the lynch. You may PM me during the day and opt to grab an item from the public item pool instead. Certain classes have other choices they can make instead. Note that if the pool is empty when your turn comes to check it, you get nothing!
Pref would have dropped two uncommon items on death and Jack probably dropped one or zero items which means either two or three players grabbed from the public pool at the end of Day 1.
At Day 1 start there were 2 uncommon (or better) and 4 common items.
At Day 1 end there were 4 uncommon (or better) and 4 common items thanks to Pref.
During Night 1 Jack is killed and drops any items they possibly had.
At Day 2 start there are 6 items in the public pool. Anywhere possibly between 2 to 4 uncommon (or better) and 2 to 4 common items.
Post by: webadict on June 02, 2021, 09:00:13 pm
I know that somebody randomized Blue's targetHow do you know this?
Post by: Toaster on June 02, 2021, 09:10:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 09:12:38 pm
Who's your partner Tric? Is it Web? Is it Blue? Or...i-is it Jim? Holy shit it is, isn't it?
I actually feel good about Toony and Jim being town.
Jim, Toony, and perfuzek are currently my townreads.
But I'd defend jim and toony too.
As for Jim, it becomes more and more obvious you haven't read the thread, I've long since seen Jim and Toony as town, from near the beginning of the day. Nothing has changed, and their posts continue to showcase towniness. Jim exudes towniness.
Jim exudes towniness.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 09:14:44 pm
NQT told me.I know that somebody randomized Blue's targetHow do you know this?
NOTE: I quoted the D1 day start to make that post (easiest way for lazy mods to keep formatting) and forgot to change the pool number (I'm really good at that.) There are SEVEN items in the public pool.Ah, I see.
Post by: webadict on June 02, 2021, 09:21:11 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 09:27:11 pm
Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
Post by: webadict on June 02, 2021, 09:33:21 pm
I believe I still have it.Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 02, 2021, 09:35:48 pm
FallacyofUrist - probably town, staked their life on Pref being scum even though they were wrong, claimed ArchaeologistWell, as promised. FallacyofUrist. Clearly I don't deserve to have my own vote.
I'm not going to just do nothing, though. Even though, for obvious reasons, I fucked up, I still need to put in the effort to try and figure out who the murderers among us are.
I should put you in the thunderdome like you asked for. I may still do that, but thunderdomes are a great way to waste lynches if both players end up being town.
Weak Town
FallacyofUrist - probably town, staked their life on Pref being scum even though they were wrong, claimed Archaeologist
I don't see this. FallacyofUrist stuck his neck out for his scum partner NQT during Magic Mafia on Day 2 even after Vector got the guilty inspect on him. Trying to save his scum partners while being scum is something he's willing to do.
Actually yes let's vote FallacyofUrist. He successfully steered the lynch off of BluearianKnight very late into Day 1.
Yes I am suggesting him and BK are partners.
NQT told me.I know that somebody randomized Blue's targetHow do you know this?
Oh, hey. That's cool. I protected and randomized NQT last night.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 02, 2021, 09:41:08 pm
Post by: webadict on June 02, 2021, 10:37:49 pm
So it's likely Blue/FoU with Blue being the Jack killer or Tric/X with Tric being the Jack killer.I don't see the correlation of Blu being the killer.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 02, 2021, 10:44:53 pm
Reading people is hard. I'd say even Tric's better at this than I am. Ah well. Gotta try, at least.
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 02:29:25 am
- I thought the sub forum had decided against CFDs
- Toony is right, he sent me a message which I could respond to
- I though a scum!Blu might try to kill me so I used scroll of confusion on Blu, but I was redirected or randomised to Fallacy.
- This tracks with Jim's claim to have randomised me
- As such Fallacy is probably telling the truth about being redirected to Toony
- So Fallacy, myself and Jim can probably not have performed the kill
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 03:14:57 am
- JimGroovester
- BluarianKnight
Jim, Blu, do either of you have an alibi? Do anything provable?
Spoiler: N1 (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 03:22:37 am
And if Web is blocked by Toony, that means unless the pair of them are scum together, it leaves only two players who could have performed the kill last night:
- TricMagic
- BluarianKnight
Tric, Blu, do either of you have an alibi? Do anything provable?
Spoiler: N1 (click to show/hide)
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 03:25:53 am
Self preservation is a hallmark of my play, regardless of alignment, yes. Guilty as charged. I don't roll over or go down easy.
Of the three I've just looked at, I suppose I like Bluarian's play the least. Web has played wild, Toony has played soft, but Blu has played opportunistic. I will continue to cast the net wider as we move on to the end of the day. Jim next, then if I have time, maybe Tric or Prefuzek.
Yeah, this is survival:NQT. If you want the vote to move to web, you can manage that. As is this vote just reads as jumping on the most likely wagon to get you out of lynchtown asap.
This is vote count when Tric tries to move the last minute wagon to Web:
Quote
Vote Count:
EuchreJack:
notquitethere: FallacyofUrist, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
TricMagic:
prefuzek: Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, notquitethere, ToonyMan, webadict
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Webadict. I do not believe blue would be a good infovote. NQT would, but why are you changing to blue in the last hours? Blue has at least posted enough early on, NQT didn't. Explain your reasoning.
Gotta go, more later.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 06:02:50 am
@FoU:
What did you hit me with?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 06:48:20 am
- I thought the sub forum had decided against CFDsI have no fucking idea. Biggest misplay of my life, blame MU. CFDs don't work and only lynch town. In fact, if Blue is mafia it pushed town into the lynch over mafia. Fuck CFDs.
Votes should lock in an hour before Day ends, this doesn't mean that whoever you're voting for at the time sticks, but any vote made in the final hour of the day should not be movable anymore. This will allow players one final vote during EoD1, which sounds fair to me.
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 07:15:20 am
BluarianKnight
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 07:24:50 am
Tric and Blu didn't need to switch around at all once the Blu wagon was abandoned. This is more evidence towards Tric/Blu scum team.
We should flip Blu and then see where we're at.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 07:33:25 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 08:07:46 am
Web and Blue most likely did not perform this kill.
That leaves TricMagic as my top suspect of this kill.
Pretty interesting thing to come back to. However one person received a boon of an uncommon or rare item from me. So nope~. My action last night is confirmed by them, though I would ask they not reveal themselves if the item is useful enough to warrant that.
I'll come back for the rest after breakfast. To note, the item I used was named the Scroll of Greater Treasure.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 03, 2021, 08:11:54 am
Seriously?
I used a potion of insurance.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 08:18:52 am
Pretty interesting thing to come back to. However one person received a boon of an uncommon or rare item from me. So nope~. My action last night is confirmed by them, though I would ask they not reveal themselves if the item is useful enough to warrant that.Tric, they have to reveal themselves or you're up on the chopping block. Your action isn't provable unless this person you targeted claims they received an uncommon or rare item. They don't even have to say what it is.
I..We can't prove this unless you die.
Seriously?
I used a potion of insurance.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 08:29:35 am
Why you always gotta roll mafia Bluarian? Who else could have killed Jack?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 08:33:05 am
But no, they closed off that door with this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284838#msg8284838) as it implies the person they gave a treasure to is still alive. They did not target Jack last night.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 08:57:27 am
NQT told me.I know that somebody randomized Blue's targetHow do you know this?
How did NQT tell you if you two aren't in scum chat?
from the post screen.
Oh, and TricMagic fucked himself by not claiming he used the Scroll of Greater Treasure on Jack. That would have been a very possible cover up since we don't know exactly how many people went into the public item pool.
But no, they closed off that door with this post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284838#msg8284838) as it implies the person they gave a treasure to is still alive. They did not target Jack last night.
I thought about targeting jack as he definitely went up on the towniness. Which is why I didn't since I figured scum would actually want to get rid of him so we didn't have someone like that.
Why has NQT shot to the top of your townlist though.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 09:00:09 am
Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
Of note, this is supremely scummy of you toony. Weren't you the one with a way to save another? Why spend a Scroll of Mail on NQT of all people?
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 09:01:41 am
Of note, why did you roleblock web, the pladin/l?Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 09:02:30 am
Wi-fi seems to be stuttering.Of note, why did you roleblock web, the pladin/not paladin?Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 09:05:38 am
Blu then Tric moved onto Prefuzek at the end of D1 to save Blu, and there they both stayed when the wagon moved onto Fallacy and then back to Prefuzek. The people that wagoned Fallacy are also the people that wagoned Prefuzek: Web, Toony, Jim, Euchre. So it was t/t between Fallacy and Prefuzek.To note. This is fundamentally wrong Approaching the end of day, it was you who were on the chopping block. So it is important to look at the end of day from two directions, Blue as Scum, or NQT as scum.
Tric and Blu didn't need to switch around at all once the Blu wagon was abandoned. This is more evidence towards Tric/Blu scum team.
We should flip Blu and then see where we're at.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 09:06:38 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 09:11:21 am
Pretty interesting thing to come back to. However one person received a boon of an uncommon or rare item from me. So nope~. My action last night is confirmed by them, though I would ask they not reveal themselves if the item is useful enough to warrant that.Tric, they have to reveal themselves or you're up on the chopping block. Your action isn't provable unless this person you targeted claims they received an uncommon or rare item. They don't even have to say what it is.I..We can't prove this unless you die.
Seriously?
I used a potion of insurance.
K. So was going to save this. But as day end approached I had less confidence in my read on you as town toony. However, I kept up the façade so my actual target wouldn't be known. Of my three town reads, who do you think I chose if Pref was dead, and I decided not to send it to Jack and didn't quite trust you? The answer is pretty obvious.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 09:13:33 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 09:24:30 am
I made no such claim of protection. In fact I denied being a Doctor. I would have protected Jack otherwise.Of note, this is supremely scummy of you toony. Weren't you the one with a way to save another? Why spend a Scroll of Mail on NQT of all people?Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
NQT is town unless they're with Jim. Like, you HAVE to argue it's NQT/Jim to me, which is possible if we look at the night action claims. NQT would have redirected FoU while Jim performed the kill, but why would NQT tell me they're going to randomize Blue and then lie about it when Blue could have easily disproven NQT the next day?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 09:29:06 am
Because I thought he was full of shit and sowing confusion into Day 1, felt just like Super10 EoD1 to me.Of note, why did you roleblock web, the pladin/l?Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
It worked out since he didn't used a Scroll of Inspection anyway.
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 09:31:28 am
To note. This is fundamentally wrong Approaching the end of day, it was you who were on the chopping block. So it is important to look at the end of day from two directions, Blue as Scum, or NQT as scum.I was on the chopping block until the vote switched decisively onto Blu:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After that, you and Blu started the Prefuzek wagon.
Of note, flipping blue just to see where you are at. Not a good thing, short days.Not "just to see" but because Blu is the most likely member of the mafia. I mean, we'll be able to see teams etc. more clearly once they've flipped.
I believe it's quite possible Blu does have a potion of insurance:
Dumb question - Toaster - Can I use an action before lynched?
But the thing about potions is you can drink them and do another action at the same time, right? So what else did you do, Blu? And who benefits from your insurance?
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 09:34:47 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 09:47:24 am
Just end my tortured existenceI'm trying
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 09:59:55 am
Quote
Hello, this is Toony.
I picked up a Scroll of Mail at EoD1 so I'm going to send a message to the player I think is most likely town right now in case I die tonight.
Please post this if I'm not around for Day 2.
My reads:
Strong Town
notquitethere - likely town, strong synergy with town Pref
EuchreJack - likely town, spewing like crazy
Weak Town
FallacyofUrist - probably town, staked their life on Pref being scum even though they were wrong, claimed Archaeologist
Jim Groovester - probably town, defended NQT from FoU and seems genuine
Not Sure
TricMagic - maybe scummy, claimed Random Bard (just like Pref), they could actually just be playing better than they usually do as town
Suspicious
BluarianKnight - scummy, no excuses
webadict - scummy, claims Paladin when they feel like it
EoD1 Votes:
prefuzek: FallacyofUrist, BluarianKnight, TricMagic, EuchreJack, Jim Groovester*
BluarianKnight: notquitethere
webadict: ToonyMan*
FallacyofUrist: prefuzek, webadict*
*Me and Web were voting Pref before switching, Jim was voting FallacyofUrist
Near EoD1 Votes:
prefuzek: FallacyofUrist, BluarianKnight, TricMagic, EuchreJack, ToonyMan, Webadict
BluarianKnight: notquitethere
FallacyofUrist: prefuzek, Jim Groovester
FoU is probably town and just wrong about Pref/NQT here. Pref was a Random Bard so I think that means their two uncommon items get dropped in the public pool now.
I can't get the sense of any coherent scum team, but Web/Tric/Blue all look bad to me.
I also have a Paralysis item so I will be role-blocking Webadict tonight because I think they're speaking bullshit.
You can respond to this mail with an up-to-25-words message so if you have any comments or better ideas for a target I might consider it.
Post by: Toaster on June 03, 2021, 10:05:45 am
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
BluarianKnight: notquitethere, ToonyMan,
webadict:
FallacyofUrist: FallacyofUrist, Jim Groovester,
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting: TricMagic, BluarianKnight, webadict,
Day 1 will last until Monday, 6/7 at 10 PM EST.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 10:08:50 am
I would suggest everyone claim what class they are now. If there is a town thief that doesn't trust me, they can steal this so long as they target someone we agree upon. Like Webadict, given his lying tendencies.
I'd personally use it on NQT if he doesn't get lynched today.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 10:09:54 am
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 03, 2021, 10:14:44 am
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 10:22:11 am
I would suggest everyone claim what class they are now.Why?
I'd personally use it on NQT if he doesn't get lynched today.Why??
That votecount does make me think a NQT/Toony setup is viable though. Main point is NQT is the lynchpin.Why??? If everyone who voted the same way as another player were on a scum team together, everyone would be scum. Why am I the "lynchpin"? We are voting one of the possible killers today: you or Blu are the only players whose actions are unconfirmed.
I'll respond to questions tonight.Give yourself time to confer with your scum team, got it.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 10:28:08 am
I would suggest everyone claim what class they are now.Why?I'd personally use it on NQT if he doesn't get lynched today.Why??That votecount does make me think a NQT/Toony setup is viable though. Main point is NQT is the lynchpin.Why??? If everyone who voted the same way as another player were on a scum team together, everyone would be scum. Why am I the "lynchpin"? We are voting one of the possible killers today: you or Blu are the only players whose actions are unconfirmed.I'll respond to questions tonight.Give yourself time to confer with your scum team, got it.
In order for me to be scum, Jim would also be scum. Do you believe this to be true? Why would I give town something useful, or openly show what new item I have for town to decide upon?
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 10:31:20 am
Do you disagree with this? If not, why the hell are you voting for me?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 10:34:44 am
Sure, the team could be Jim/Tric. All I know is that if the team isn't exactly Toony/Web, then either you or Blu performed the kill last night.Exactly.
Do you disagree with this? If not, why the hell are you voting for me?
Tric, you need to argue that me and Web are lying or that NQT and Jim are lying.
If Jim confirms they received an uncommon or rare time that proves that you didn't kill Jack, which leaves Blue as the only possible killer.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 10:37:11 am
Quote
blocking web is good idea. I used scroll of confusion to randomise Bluarian for similar reasons. Will pass on your note if you die.
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 10:43:17 am
Blu has all but admitted to have performed the kill: he claimed taking a potion, which is an action you take alongside another action: he didn't claim his core action (perhaps hoping we would forget that rule?).
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 11:23:51 am
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 11:25:40 am
Okay, so let's go over the proposed changes one more time, in finalized form:QuoteNEW MECHANIC:
Potions: You may use one potion each night in addition to any other action. Potions all target yourself.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 11:32:28 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 11:33:32 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 11:40:38 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 11:43:12 am
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 11:56:49 am
Web, why command Blu to attack yourself? Imagine if that plan had worked and D2 starts with a dead town!web. How would that help town? Why not inspect?Because it would have removed me from suspects, and given the Town a lot of information.
By the way I have a Wand of Paralysis so I'm going to use my second shot to block Tric tonight if Bluarian is mafia.I can, uh... Cause someone to target me with potential death?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 11:57:02 am
Oi! At least freaking wait for Jim to confirm. And how come you have so many blocking items anyway?I have one blocking item. I started the game with a Wand of Paralysis.
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 11:57:24 am
By the way I have a Wand of Paralysis so I'm going to use my second shot to block Tric tonight if Bluarian is mafia.
And how come you have so many blocking items anyway?Wands are all two-shot. From the spreadsheet:
Quote
Scroll One shot
Wand Two shot
Staff Three shot
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 12:51:03 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 01:03:39 pm
Toony uses a Wand of Paralysis on Webadict, blocking him.
FoU targets Jim with something, ends up targeting Toony instead.
Webadict tries using a Scroll of Command on Bluarian to target self, gets blocked.
Jim uses a Scroll of Hallucination(?) on NQT, protecting NQT and randomizing their target.
NQT uses a Scroll of Confusion on Bluarian, but ends up targeting FoU instead.
TricMagic uses a Scroll of Greater Treasure on Jim(?).
Bluarian has no claim.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 03, 2021, 03:02:09 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 03:07:00 pm
Did you think Web would inspect you or Jim?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 03, 2021, 03:14:09 pm
Regardless I don't think web ever was a Paladin, now, so it was a bit of a waste.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 03, 2021, 03:39:17 pm
Yes, I received an item during N1.
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 03:50:55 pm
Let's hear what he has to claim then shorten I guess.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 04:41:38 pm
Great! So Blu is the only player who is unaccounted for last night.Bit quick to shorten isn't it? Also, would a regeneration potion let them live past the lynch today?
Let's hear what he has to claim then shorten I guess.
It might be wise to first see who wanted it off Blue, and discuss that. I also am going to be very annoyed if Toony paralyzes me, given I am town, and can mess with the person we think is scum.
Is it possible to do a Public Discarding of an item? I would rather Toony paralyze whoever we think is the scum partner, and I'm accounted for last night.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 04:48:10 pm
I can prove your innocence tonight if someone dies still. Whoever I block likely couldn't have performed the kill - especially you Tric - who is a Bard.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 05:17:46 pm
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 05:37:47 pm
1. Potion of Regen is used at night to protect against nightkill, not during the day for the elimination.
2. We have no reason to believe he has that specific potion, he claimed Potion of Insurance which just gives someone something if you die
3. Short days are good for morale, once town have decided a target there's no use dragging things out: this is a view I have long had.
4. Public discarding is not a thing.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 05:38:18 pm
If I die tonight, you won't have an allibi Toony, so please don't? It makes more sense to block the partner than the townie.Who is Blue's partner then? NQT? FoU?
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 05:46:06 pm
If blue is scum, most likely subject is Fallacy. The self-vote is an interesting defense mechanism.If I die tonight, you won't have an allibi Toony, so please don't? It makes more sense to block the partner than the townie.Who is Blue's partner then? NQT? FoU?
If Blue is town, then Toony is scum. So a Toony/NQT pairing? Could be web though, but I'd get paralyzed anyway, and Jim is likely to be the one to die.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 05:49:53 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 03, 2021, 05:52:18 pm
I don't think I can stop a vote against me - but I avoided my claim until I could type on my PC.
I used a scroll of swapping on Web
I'm a warrior.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 06:12:44 pm
If you are town, who do you think is web's partner?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 06:15:43 pm
I'm a warrior.Why did you pick Warrior?
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 06:17:27 pm
I'm a warrior.Why did you pick Warrior?
What does the Scroll of Swapping do exactly?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 06:18:09 pm
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 06:21:20 pm
Oh does that swap your class with that person?My class did not change last Night.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 06:21:51 pm
Why did you ask me that?What does the Scroll of Swapping do exactly?I'm a warrior.Why did you pick Warrior?
I looked it up, the Scroll of Swapping is an uncommon item that reads "Choose two players. All actions that would target one player target the other instead."
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 06:29:20 pm
Post by: notquitethere on June 03, 2021, 06:32:19 pm
Tric, a Toony/NQT team isn't possible as who blocked Web or randomised Fallacy if one of us performed the kill? Logically, the possible teams are:
Toony/Web
NQT/Jim
Tric/Jim
Blu/Anyone
I don't want to die tonight and for you to conveniently forget this.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 06:53:46 pm
Also Blu bungled his fakeclaim by saying he used the scroll of swapping on one player, as it would require two targets. Nice, nice.Nice.
I guess we'll learn if we're dealing with two mafia or something else today since Blue is 100% lying.
If Blue flips SK then Web is likely the other scum.
If Blue flips mafia then Tric is likely the other mafia.
Either way this makes me feel good because my top suspects have been Tric/Web/Blue all game and I was barely paying attention during Day 1.
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 07:02:28 pm
Well you're wrong about me being scum, but that's okay, I'll be proven rhrough death eventuallyAlso Blu bungled his fakeclaim by saying he used the scroll of swapping on one player, as it would require two targets. Nice, nice.Nice.
I guess we'll learn if we're dealing with two mafia or something else today since Blue is 100% lying.
If Blue flips SK then Web is likely the other scum.
If Blue flips mafia then Tric is likely the other mafia.
Either way this makes me feel good because my top suspects have been Tric/Web/Blue all game and I was barely paying attention during Day 1.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 07:11:07 pm
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 07:16:55 pm
I will never let you die Web unless it's by my hands.Why are you doing this to me?!
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 07:19:41 pm
Night 1 action claims:For example, Blue uses the scroll of Swapping to make FoU target Jim. That frees NQT from the list of confirmed actions. (And since Jim randomized him, Jack dies by dice, instead of choice)
Toony uses a Wand of Paralysis on Webadict, blocking him.
FoU targets Jim with something, ends up targeting Toony instead.
Webadict tries using a Scroll of Command on Bluarian to target self, gets blocked.
Jim uses a Scroll of Hallucination(?) on NQT, protecting NQT and randomizing their target.
NQT uses a Scroll of Confusion on Bluarian, but ends up targeting FoU instead.
TricMagic uses a Scroll of Greater Treasure on Jim(?).
Bluarian has no claim.
Likewise if Blue used the scroll, who did he swap? He is also a Warrior, and has no reason not to just perform the kill himself, the scroll being a fake-action he made up. He's already use a potion, which does allow another action. Logical elimination isn't full-proof here.
Likewise, web was roleblocked, so can fakeclaim with a partner.
The ones who are cleared from the kill are obviously Toony, Jim, Webadict, and Myself. We all have actions that couldn't exist without two of us being scum.
A NQT/Jim team is possible, but unlikely due to Jim just confirming my own action last night.
Nin.
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 07:24:32 pm
I can confirm my action tomorrow by the Scroll of Ill Will I use tonight, if blue is scum. If anyone dies, then I didn't do the kill. Likewise with you roleblocking someone.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 07:25:08 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 07:28:36 pm
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 03, 2021, 07:35:25 pm
I thought it was obvious.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 07:44:43 pm
Web and Euchre.Why did you pick Warrior as your class? Did you random it?
I thought it was obvious.
From my POV this claim means either you or Web is lying.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 03, 2021, 08:07:33 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 03, 2021, 08:35:13 pm
I randomed - I got it and the potion.A reminder claims were yesterday, which would have been a good point to claiming you randomed into Warrior.
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 08:40:44 pm
I would like to point out if BK is scum, their partner is probably FoU. TricMagic doesn't fit, and everyone else shifted the train onto BK.
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 08:46:00 pm
Shorten.
Call me scum, but I am 99% sure Blu is scum.
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 08:51:00 pm
More particularly, Paralysis on webadict, a potential paladin. That is something scum would do, meaning you definitely aren't off the hook. Roleblocking me means that you will likely be pointed at as the last mafia when I am lynched tomorrow, if mafia decides not to kill someone. Which isn't a good thing.stfu, also way to play better as Town. Toony is Town. Jim is Town. NQT is Town. I am Town. BK and FoU are scum, and that's hilarious because they are both literally always scum.
I can confirm my action tomorrow by the Scroll of Ill Will I use tonight, if blue is scum. If anyone dies, then I didn't do the kill. Likewise with you roleblocking someone.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 03, 2021, 09:05:32 pm
BK and FoU are scum, and that's hilarious because they are both literally always scum.Why is fate so cruel?
Also, why am I always town!?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 03, 2021, 09:36:31 pm
Also Blu bungled his fakeclaim by saying he used the scroll of swapping on one player, as it would require two targets. Nice, nice.Oh. Yeah, that's pretty definitive, isn't it.
BluarianKnight.
I'd shorten, but I want to ask Jim if he got the treasure from the scroll Tric claims to have used. Assuming he hasn't already done so. Checking...
I checked the thread in the morning while I was eating breakfast but had to go to work before finishing.Okay yeah. Nevermind.
Yes, I received an item during N1.
I'm going to have to work out ways for mechanical deduction to not be horrendously difficult to counter for the scum in my own future games.
Also, why am I always town!?Why am I always scum?! (In webadict games. I'm only mostly scum outside of webadict games)
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 03, 2021, 09:38:01 pm
Web and Euchre.I think if you actually used a scroll of swapping, you'd have mentioned the other target in your initial claim post. Scumpoints.
I thought it was obvious.
Post by: Toaster on June 03, 2021, 09:59:43 pm
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
BluarianKnight: notquitethere, ToonyMan, TricMagic, webadict, FallacyofUrist
webadict:
FallacyofUrist: Jim Groovester
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting: BluarianKnight
Day 1 will last until Monday, 6/7 at 10 PM EST.
There is one vote to Shorten. With seven alive, five votes needed to Shorten the Day.
Post by: webadict on June 03, 2021, 10:26:07 pm
With seven alive, five votes needed to Shorten the Day.Hostage negotiations.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 04, 2021, 12:10:18 am
I think it's BK/FoU but BK/Tric and BK/web are possible, at least by my reading of the game at the end of Day 1.
Pretty interesting thing to come back to. However one person received a boon of an uncommon or rare item from me. So nope~. My action last night is confirmed by them, though I would ask they not reveal themselves if the item is useful enough to warrant that.Tric, they have to reveal themselves or you're up on the chopping block. Your action isn't provable unless this person you targeted claims they received an uncommon or rare item. They don't even have to say what it is.
To add further clarity the item I received was indeed Uncommon or Rare.
Web, why command Blu to attack yourself? Imagine if that plan had worked and D2 starts with a dead town!web. How would that help town? Why not inspect?
It's a decent plan to redirect the kill to somebody else, e.g., your second suspect, because if the target you redirected them to dies you have that information and can present it to the town. If you target yourself then assuming you're successful then that information gets taken with you, which accomplishes less but I guess gets you out of the game.
It's bizarrely self-destructive. Is everything okay, web, buddy? Are we not noticing the cries for help?
I will never let you die Web unless it's by my hands.Why are you doing this to me?!
LIVE WUBA
I'm going to have to work out ways for mechanical deduction to not be horrendously difficult to counter for the scum in my own future games.
This does seem pretty nightmarish but I don't really care as long as I get to win.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 04, 2021, 12:25:12 am
Shorten
Post by: notquitethere on June 04, 2021, 02:19:45 am
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 04, 2021, 08:57:25 am
I guess I'll end it myself.
Shorten.
Bluarianknight.
Post by: Toaster on June 04, 2021, 09:16:04 am
Post by: Toaster on June 04, 2021, 06:41:03 pm
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
BluarianKnight: notquitethere, ToonyMan, TricMagic, webadict, FallacyofUrist, Jim Groovester, BluarianKnight
webadict:
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
For once, the arguments are actually unanimous; it must be BluarianKnight. He growls and grabs his sword. “Take me… if you can!” He assumes a defensive stance, his armor gleaming from under his cloak; this Warrior is prepared for a fight.
ToonyMan is the first to act, and throws a rock. Notquitethere also grabs a chunk of stone and hurls it. The rest follow suit. “No! Stop!” Bluarian bellows. He wards off a few and dodges a couple more, but a particularly large one strikes him in the side of the head, and he stumbles. Someone rushes in and hits him with a larger one, and he falls to the ground. Several more blows and he stops.
His bag is checked. There’s a tattered notebook in there with ramblings about the Necromancer and notes of an instruction to stop the party at whatever the cost. It looks like you were successful today, but another note indicates that Bluarian was not working alone.
Exhausted, you all settle in for another rest. Will everyone see the end of this?
BluarianKnight has been lynched! He was a Warrior (Mafia).
Night 2 has begun! Night 2 will last until Monday, 6/7 at 10 PM EDT. ((Unless I get all actions in, then I will end it once at least 24 hours have passed as well.))
Post by: Toaster on June 05, 2021, 09:43:14 pm
There’s only five of you now. Who can be trusted? Who is killing everyone?
Webadict has been killed! He was a Ranger (Town).
Day 3 has begun! Day 3 will last until Wednesday, 6/9 at 10 PM EST.
There are eight items in the public pool.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 05, 2021, 09:53:02 pm
I received a Potion of Volume in my questing, and as such I performed no Night action. Yes, I'm aware of how suspicious this sounds. Like it or not, it's the truth.
Now let's try to take a look at how people interacted with Bluarian, yeah?
(Note: web dead Day 3. Auspicious.)
Post by: ToonyMan on June 05, 2021, 09:59:26 pm
I couldn't keep Web alive...
I grabbed a Scroll of Attraction from the public item pool and targeted FoU and TricMagic with it. This means it's unlikely either one of them killed Web unless they got around my redirect somehow. I still have the second charge on my Wand of Paralysis, I figured I wouldn't use it since I got the Attraction scroll.
If it's FoU or Tric how did they get around my redirect?
Post by: Toaster on June 05, 2021, 10:07:32 pm
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 05, 2021, 10:34:20 pm
I used a Scroll of Protection on notquitethere.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 12:02:40 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 12:41:21 am
Alright so let's go over things.
BluarianKnight was (shockingly) mafia. I don't know why they always roll mafia, but it does confirm we're definitely dealing with a two mafia team. It's almost certain Webadict was killed by this other mafia, so who is the Web killer? If we find the Web killer we find the other mafia.
1. Everybody voted Blue on Day 2 so the other mafia bussed Blue, not surprising.
2. Blue was a Warrior so that's likely why they performed the Jack kill on N1, not surprising.
3. I redirected FoU and Tric onto each other last night so it's unlikely they killed Web N2, but then why did Webadict die?
During Day 2 I was pretty certain Blue's partner was either FoU or Tric, so when I grabbed a Scroll of Attraction I thought it would be a perfect chance to contain both of these players, but Web still died. Does this mean Web was killed by Jim or NQT? Or did FoU and Tric bypass my redirections in some way? Personally this is making me paranoid of Jim and NQT, but I'll need to see everybody's claims for N2.
We're one mislynch away from lylo traditionally, but this is Roguelike Mafia so I'd rather be safe than sorry. I'm full-claiming everything at this point. I think we can catch the last mafia by doing this today.
Full-Claim:
I am also a Random Warrior like Blue, except town. I started the game with an uncommon Wand of Paralysis because of this.
Day 1 - went questing and got a common Scroll of Mail
Night 1 - used Scroll of Mail on NQT, used Wand of Paralysis on Webadict
Day 2 - pulled from the public item pool and got an uncommon Scroll of Attraction
Night 2 - used Scroll of Attraction on FoU and TricMagic
Current Inventory is a Wand of Paralysis with one shot left.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 12:47:07 am
Blue used a Potion of Insurance most likely before dying. I don't think they were lying about this. Potion of Insurance allows you to name a player that receives a rare item when you die. This means Blue gave their mafia partner a rare item when they died.
I'm going to look through the rare item list and see if there's anything here the last mafia could have used.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 03:06:32 am
You're my #1 scum pick. Who's the mafia and why?
You say you only had a Potion of Volume last night and thus had no night action last night, this lines up with my own action.
@TricMagic:
Were you redirected to FoU or did you target them anyway?
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 06, 2021, 03:17:01 am
If it's FoU or Tric how did they get around my redirect?
What are the odds that Webadict killed himself to get out of the game?
Scroll of Command counts as a redirect like Scroll of Attraction does. Maybe web won the random roll?
Full-Claim:
I'm game but falling asleep at my computer right now.
I randomed Scavenger so I have a bunch of items but only used Scroll of Hallucination on NQT on N1 and Scroll of Protection on NQT on N2.
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 04:01:02 am
D1: Randomised Bluarian
D2: Protected Toonyman
I'm surprised Web was picked as a couple of players were suspicious of him.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 08:02:03 am
:(
I couldn't keep Web alive...
I grabbed a Scroll of Attraction from the public item pool and targeted FoU and TricMagic with it. This means it's unlikely either one of them killed Web unless they got around my redirect somehow. I still have the second charge on my Wand of Paralysis, I figured I wouldn't use it since I got the Attraction scroll.
If it's FoU or Tric how did they get around my redirect?
I didn't, given my Scroll of Ill Will ended up striking FoU instead of Webadict. So naturally that clears three people from this kill.
... NQT, based upon this it's between you and Jim. Nowhere to run, since if we miss, we still have tomorrow, barring a daykill weapon.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 08:22:51 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 08:24:04 am
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 09:28:21 am
Tric, you can't seriously think I was Blu's ally? What's your reasoning here?
By process of elimination, it's either Jim, or Fallacy is a Ranger or subject to a similar effect and ignored the redirect.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 09:54:33 am
I agree with Tric, the choices is between me and Jim today.
Tric, you can't seriously think I was Blu's ally? What's your reasoning here?
By process of elimination, it's either Jim, or Fallacy is a Ranger or subject to a similar effect and ignored the redirect.
By process of elimination, it's you to Jim. So that logic alone won't work NQT. Beyond which, Fallacy has already claimed quite some time ago.
I'll wait on Fal to answer my question. But it's most likely you, given I haven't seen any charts so far.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 10:08:34 am
This would mean:If it's FoU or Tric how did they get around my redirect?What are the odds that Webadict killed himself to get out of the game?Scroll of Command counts as a redirect like Scroll of Attraction does. Maybe web won the random roll?
1. Web tried to kill himself again by having FoU target himself.
2. FoU is boldface lying to our faces by claiming immediately again just like Day 2.
I think NQT or Jim might have been hoping I would block Tric last night and so Web dying would setup FoU for a mislynch.
Uuuuuggghh or Web is just a huge sabotager and redirected FoU onto himself.
If FoU can confirm the Ill Will strike that gives me and Tric both alibis.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 10:12:02 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 10:20:21 am
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 11:42:12 am
Yeah look at this spread:
Vote Count:
EuchreJack:
notquitethere:
TricMagic:
prefuzek:
BluarianKnight: prefuzek, Jim Groovester, notquitethere
webadict: ToonyMan, BluarianKnight, webadict, EuchreJack, TricMagic
FallacyofUrist:
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting: FallacyofUrist
Day 1 will last until Tuesday, 6/1 at 9 PM EDT, ~65 minutes from this post.
Why was Jim bussing Blu there if they were team mates? Fallacy had spent the whole day voting for me and only unvoted when he was literally the last person on my wagon. Fallacy is the one who starts the Prefuzek CFD, explicitly to avoid a Blu lynch:
I don't think your reasoning for clearing Blue is substantial enough, but I do think there's more to the argument for not voting Blue than has been brought up.
Anyways bandwagon time! Let's go! prefuzek
Fallacy, you're claiming to have no items left, correct?
I previously thought Fallacy was a bad fit for scum. I'm not certain here.
Tric, what would you say if I told you I had a confirmable action I could use tonight?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 11:53:43 am
I agree with Tric, the choices is between me and Jim today.I think your discounting the possibility of Web using a Scroll of Command to make FoU kill him. Or like you say that Fallacy is actually a Ranger and bypassed my redirect.
Me and Tric are mechanically cleared if FoU confirms the Ill Will effect, if they can't then they're lying and we elim them. If they flip town then Tric was lying and we still win tomorrow.
Jim and NQT make no sense as the Blue partner.
1. Blue was the counterwagon to NQT, why would NQT push for Blue if the team is NQT/Blue?
2. Jim has been pushing FoU and Blue all game, why would mafia!Jim push for Blue's head on Day 1?
Behaviorally, it's very unlikely NQT is the partner and it's pretty unlikely Jim is the partner.
So let's review:
Mechanically and behaviorally cleared: Toony and Tric
Behaviorally cleared: NQT and Jim
Nothing: FoU
There's a 0% chance me and Tric are mafia (unless Tric is lying, but FoU should be able to confirm that soon).
There's a very small chance NQT is mafia.
There's a small chance Jim is mafia.
There's a high chance FoU is mafia.
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 12:02:16 pm
Fallacy behaviourally fits better for scum, favouring one narrow target and then forcing a prefuzek wagon based on that. Jim needlessly imperiled his teammate on D1 if he was scum.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 12:08:16 pm
In other words, Web got his wish.
...It's still possible that NQT and Jim are the Blue partner, but it would be so omega-brained and self-harmful to attack Blue like that on D1. I want Fallacy to explain which of the two they think is the busser.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 06, 2021, 01:35:06 pm
Quote
the POE
Awesome, spares me the effort of doing it myself.
If it's not FoU then the game gets a lot more interesting and complicated but I don't want to spend brainpower on that until it happens.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 01:44:19 pm
Class claims:
Toony - Random Warrior
Tric - Random Bard
FoU - normal? Archeologist
Jim - Random Scavenger
NQT - Random Scavenger
Pref - Random Bard
Jack - ?? Merchant
Blue - Random Warrior
Web - ?? Ranger
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 01:54:18 pm
@FallacyofUrist:I'll get to this.
You're my #1 scum pick. Who's the mafia and why?
Ugh... I'm of the opinion we should skip this day, FoU, can I ask what effect was applied to you?There's no mechanical indication in my night result PM that I was hit with anything. This could be because the random effect chosen was one that was irrelevant due to me not taking a night action, however.
Fallacy, you're claiming to have no items left, correct?I have a Potion of Volume. If I receive a usable item in today's search, assuming I'm not executed, I'll try to use the potion to make my action public. I have no other items.
Everyone should say what their items are and when they got them too I think. This will force the mafia to lie again.Right.
I selected (not randomed) Archeologist. I quested both Day 1 and Day 2, and received a Scroll of Joined Fate Day 1 and a Potion of Volume Day 2. The item gacha has not been cooperative.
Okay, that's the information given. Now to get to who I think is scum.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 02:16:41 pm
ToonyMan claims to have used a Scroll of Attraction on TricMagic and I. TricMagic confirms being redirected, as I did not act I can't confirm it as well but this ought to be good enough. This would be further confirmed if Tric's Scroll of Ill Will effect was something that showed up in my actual results, but it did not. I'd like to confirm something with Toaster, though, before I say this for absolute certain.
Jim Groovester claims to have used a Scroll of Protection on NQT. NQT claims to have protected (no specific item listed?) ToonyMan. Neither of these are confirmable, correct me if I'm wrong.
Am I scummy-looking as heck? Absolutely. But if you accept Toony is telling the truth, I can't have performed the kill. Unless I'm a very lucky Ranger.
Two: Bluarian's Elimination
Literally everyone was voting BluarianKnight at the end of Day 2. Let's take a look at everyone's vote justifications, though.
You cowards.Deciding to finish the job.
I guess I'll end it myself.
Shorten.
Bluarianknight.
BluearianKnight and Shorten.No justification given?
I think it's BK/FoU but BK/Tric and BK/web are possible, at least by my reading of the game at the end of Day 1.
Because of Bluarian's slip regarding the scroll of swapping fakeclaim.Also Blu bungled his fakeclaim by saying he used the scroll of swapping on one player, as it would require two targets. Nice, nice.Oh. Yeah, that's pretty definitive, isn't it.
BluarianKnight.
Note: NQT was the one to point this out.
Oh, and also, BluarianKnightUh. Webadictness?
Anyway, BluarianKnight, you have some explaining to do.Note: swapped from:
That votecount does make me think a NQT/Toony setup is viable though. Main point is NQT is the lynchpin.
I think NQT swayed Tric to vote Bluarian.
Looking at the end of day switches might still be instructive, especially once we get a mafia flip. If, as is likely, mafia were trying to avoid a Blu lynch, then might be interesting to see when they stopped in the CFD.Note: NQT was the one to start the Bluarian wagon. As far as I'm concerned, as much as I've had misgivings earlier, this practically clears them.
BluarianKnight
BluarianKnight'Who else could have killed Jack'.
Consider how late Jim Groovester voted Bluarian, and how early NQT voted Bluarian.
Yes, I also joined the wagon late. I acknowledge this. But if it's not me, then it's gotta be Jim Groovester.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 02:19:41 pm
More likely, you got hit by the redirect portion of the effect. I was asking cause one of the effects would have been poison. Would Poison or Curse Armor show up on report to the player?
On the other hand, ninja'd by actually work. Which is still more than NQT has done.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 02:22:03 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 02:26:08 pm
Ill Will can cause the target to be roleblocked, redirected at random, cause them to lose a random item, inflict Curse Armor, or inflict Poison. FoU would have needed to get very lucky to do anything last night, since only one of those effects could have messed with your action.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 02:26:34 pm
To summarize reads:
NQT: Totally clear, started the wagon on Bluarian without Bluarian looking hyper-scummy on the end of Day 1.
TricMagic + ToonyMan: Mechanically clear, judging by Toony's claimed redirect and Tric claiming to be redirected. Not 100%, since there are mechanical ways around redirection.
Fallacy: Hypothetically mechanically clear, but scummy behavior.
Jim Groovester: Latest voter onto Bluarian's wagon, no justification given, not mechanically cleared.
How does Ill Will work? What are the exact effects?Ill Will is basically 'random negative effect'. I believe it's from a pool of randomization, roleblocking, armor cursing, poisoning, and item loss. I can say I received no notification of losing an item. However, without knowing the exact mechanics, I can't say whether I'd be notified about the first two if I performed no action, and the second two in general. I'd suggest asking Toaster about it. Might even be viable as a public question, asked as a hypothetical.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 02:29:47 pm
But yes, if you flip town I will block Jim tonight.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 02:32:00 pm
... NQT, based upon this it's between you and Jim. Nowhere to run, since if we miss, we still have tomorrow, barring a daykill weapon.Basically? It's nonsensical to vote NQT at this stage. As much as I thought he looked scummy early Day 1, he's proved his innocence by starting the execution wagon against BluarianKnight far earlier than it would be reasonable to do so as a scum partner. It would be a nonsensically insane bus for him to have taken down Bluarian that hard, that early. If anything he probably could have saved Bluarian if he was Bluarian's partner, I suspect.
But yes, if you flip town I will block Jim tonight.After everyone's fully claimed, I'm fine with self-voting and shortening, if y'all want to speed this day along.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 02:39:55 pm
As of right now, NQT or Jim.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 02:43:03 pm
After everyone's fully claimed, I'm fine with self-voting and shortening, if y'all want to speed this day along.I would prefer to be right personally.
I'm still wondering if Blue got frames and Toony is just pushing things along to win tomorrow.I'm mechanically cleared from your POV Tric. Who redirected you last night?
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 02:54:08 pm
After everyone's fully claimed, I'm fine with self-voting and shortening, if y'all want to speed this day along.I would prefer to be right personally.I'm still wondering if Blue got frames and Toony is just pushing things along to win tomorrow.I'm mechanically cleared from your POV Tric. Who redirected you last night?
You didn't read the first half toony? If Blue was framed, then of course you could redirect us into each other while you partner 'protected' someone.(read kill) Or your partner did the redirect while you did the kill, though if Blue was town wouldn't be surprised if they set you for the Potion of Insurance..
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 02:57:59 pm
Tric. This is not a bastard mafia game. There are no death millers here. You can read the whole item list and verify that, even in the artifacts section, nothing can falsify a roleflip.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 03:08:02 pm
Still, there isn't a good reason to actually lynch FoU other than scumminess. If you remember he made a roleclaim quite early.
Yeah it's a good argument Toony. If Web had the scroll still (as he believed) and it wasn't used up when blocked then now I think on it, it's likely he'd attempt to do the exact same thing with it. It would have left him with a confirmable action if he wasn't killed.
Fallacy behaviourally fits better for scum, favouring one narrow target and then forcing a prefuzek wagon based on that. Jim needlessly imperiled his teammate on D1 if he was scum.
Of note, NQT says reasons why Jim isn't scum, and tries to push for Fal to be lynched. But tomorrow he'll likely try to push for Jim to be lynched. Behavioral pattern applies to NQT here, only looking to push a single lynch. What did he do yesterday that was different from this? Him pushing a bus doesn't mean much given he was on the chopping block before then and blue was taking a lot of heat.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 06, 2021, 03:47:15 pm
Everyone should say what their items are and when they got them too I think. This will force the mafia to lie again.
Started game with Scroll of Shapeshifting
Gained Scroll of Insight & Scroll of Hallucination at the end of D1
Used Scroll of Hallucination on NQT during N1
Received Potion of Invisibility at the end of N1
Gained Scroll of Protection and Scroll of Enchant Weapon at the end of D2
Used Scroll of Protection on NQT during N2
Why would Jim save NQT on D1 by attacking Bluarian? It's so anti-mafia and I don't think Jim has the brain power for it.
:(
Consider how late Jim Groovester voted Bluarian, and how early NQT voted Bluarian.
My first post of Day 2 calls you and BK scum. I was at work and didn't have the chance to vote BK at a less 'suspicious' time.
I don't think the Day 2 vote timing is that meaningful since BK was mechanically outed as the killer pretty quickly. Your analysis also ignores the end of Day 1 vote patterns which isn't that surprising since it would reflect very poorly on you.
Still, there isn't a good reason to actually lynch FoU other than scumminess.
I am going to frame this post.
Of note, NQT says reasons why Jim isn't scum, and tries to push for Fal to be lynched. But tomorrow he'll likely try to push for Jim to be lynched. Behavioral pattern applies to NQT here, only looking to push a single lynch. What did he do yesterday that was different from this? Him pushing a bus doesn't mean much given he was on the chopping block before then and blue was taking a lot of heat.
Is TricMagic actually mechanically clear? Is he trying to set up an NQT lynch tomorrow?
No, he couldn't be, because Scroll of Ill Will is a horrible item to fake claim with since it's detectable in all situations except for the limited one where the target doesn't action.
Okay, yes, it would have to be a torturously contrived scenario for TricMagic to be scum and TricMagic is paranoid.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 04:19:54 pm
Yep. Tric is 100% town.Still, there isn't a good reason to actually lynch FoU other than scumminess.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 04:37:30 pm
I don't think the Day 2 vote timing is that meaningful since BK was mechanically outed as the killer pretty quickly. Your analysis also ignores the end of Day 1 vote patterns which isn't that surprising since it would reflect very poorly on you.Well, yeah, it does. Which is why I'm entirely understanding if y'all want to execute me today. We have the room for one failed execution. Just as long as you're executed tomorrow. Sheer process of elimination should do the job at that point.
Yeah, I have to agree with you there.Yep. Tric is 100% town.Still, there isn't a good reason to actually lynch FoU other than scumminess.
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 04:39:56 pm
Am I scummy-looking as heck? Absolutely. But if you accept Toony is telling the truth, I can't have performed the kill. Unless I'm a very lucky Ranger.This is the other way:
I believe I still have it.Unfortunate, but fulfills the same overall goal I had planned. I used a Scroll of Command to try to redirect BluarianKnight into potentially killing me, but, alas, I was roleblocked, so I can confirm at least the roleblocking portion.Perfect. Does my roleblock make you waste the Scroll of Command or do you still have it?
NQT was able to tell me their action tonight because I used a Scroll of Mail on them so we could communicate once during Night 1.
Webadict does what he claimed to have wanted to do before and commits suicide-by-mafia with the scroll of command.
Also, Jim was on the Blu wagon on D1 as well. How does that fit? Early bussing?
I'm going to have to scour the item list to see if there's possibilities, but Tric and Toony look to be mechanically cleared.
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 04:40:32 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 04:48:17 pm
The chances of FoU performing the kill are very slim though. I would rather lynch one of the two who could have done the kill and block the other.There's about a 50% chance FoU killed Web if you account for the two redirections and your Ill Will effect. How is that slim?
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 04:48:37 pm
Quote
Scroll of Ill Will The target has one of the following effects applied at random: roleblock, redirect at random, loss of a random item, curse armor, or is poisoned.
If scum!Fallacy was redirected, he could have been redirected into killing Web. He could have lost an item, was cursed or was poisoned and is just lying about not receiving a report, and was redirected to Web with the scroll of command. Once you've ruled out the impossible, whatever's left, however unlikely, must be true.
Alternatively, Jim was the killer and we'll find out very soon. As it's a clear POE and we have roleblockers... does whoever it is want to save us the trouble and throw the towel in now?
(No harm in asking!)
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 04:57:29 pm
Toaster, are item shots used up if you are roleblocked while using them?
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 05:03:50 pm
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 05:07:41 pm
Just on the D1 behaviour alone, Jim comes out over Fallacy.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 05:11:45 pm
Alternatively, Jim was the killer and we'll find out very soon. As it's a clear POE and we have roleblockers... does whoever it is want to save us the trouble and throw the towel in now?*raises hand slowly*
(No harm in asking!)
I'll lose my mind if it isn't FoU.
I don't think the mafia team expected the N2 confirmations to work so well. This is why D1 scumhunting is important, time and time again it's proven.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 05:12:50 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 05:15:10 pm
I don't think the mafia team expected the N1* confirmations to work so well. This is why D1 scumhunting is important, time and time again it's proven.N1 confirmations, not N2.
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 05:19:40 pm
Hehehehe. OK guys there is at least one scum in Toony/Jim/Prefuzek. When there's a solid wagon formed, scum almost never all jump on the same vote.
As was pointed out at the time, this was hardly an ironclad law of scum, just some tendency.
Also Blu made a last ditch case on Jim which could have been mutual distancing if the pair of them had made an agreement to mutually bus (seems a dangerous way to play D1 but not impossible).
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 06, 2021, 05:27:03 pm
Alternatively, Jim was the killer and we'll find out very soon.
Could've been you if we're going down the 'what if it's not FoU' rabbit hole.
You did praise BK's vote on me near the end of Day 1 as a bold and fresh direction before deciding to vote him a little bit later. Also letting ToonyMan know you were randomizing BK during N1 could've been mechanical cover for him for D2 that didn't end up working out since I randomized you.
You did spend most of Day 1 suspecting him and did try to lynch him before FoU swooped in to save him so there's stuff that doesn't work out but if this is the rabbit hole we want to go down, you are definitely a possibility.
Post by: notquitethere on June 06, 2021, 05:28:55 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 06, 2021, 05:31:00 pm
That being said, if he was town there would be little reason to push this... ideas are a bit off, I can't quite wrap my head around a Day 4 NQT
NQT, if this is wrong, are you ready to be lynched tomorrow?
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 06:10:47 pm
NQT, if this is wrong, are you ready to be lynched tomorrow?NQT cannot reasonably be the mafia. Their attack of BluarianKnight on Day 2, so early, makes no sense from a scum perspective. NQT has proven themselves town by doing that, imo.
FallacyofUrist. I don't think I can reasonably save myself here, so let's get this show on the road. Shorten. Just don't forget what I've said once I'm gone, okay? If the town needs me dead in order to finalize the PoE that leads to the last mafia, I'm willing to oblige.
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 06:20:01 pm
Amulet of Life Saving dodges the lynch.
Scroll of Solar Flare is a daykill.
Wand of Disabling removes a vote (though it'd be used instead of the mafiakill, presumably, so they're about equal)
Potion of Rage allows for a double night kill (though it would also remove the mafia's vote), meaning the remaining town player could execute them).
Scroll of Mercy could be used on self to dodge the lynch - assuming it's self-targetable.
So five items are relevant to breaking LYLO in favor of the scum, but only two rares (Amulet of Life Saving, Scroll of Solar Flare) do it for certain. So I'd say there's a minor risk we're screwed over by a hypothetical potion of insurance, but not really a significant one. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 06:37:40 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 06:41:59 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 06, 2021, 06:46:51 pm
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 06, 2021, 06:59:01 pm
Right. Okay.
I got confirmation from Toaster that it's okay to use flavor as part of an argument, so I can basically confirm that Tric definitely used the Scroll of Ill Will on me. Last night, I faceplanted into the dirt in a rather awkward manner, in my flavor. This makes me assume that the Scroll of Ill Will was used on me.
Post by: Toaster on June 06, 2021, 07:17:18 pm
notquitethere: TricMagic
TricMagic:
FallacyofUrist: ToonyMan, notquitethere, Jim Groovester, FallacyofUrist
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Day 3 will last until Wednesday, 6/9 at 10 PM EST.
There is one vote to shorten. With five alive, three total votes needed to shorten.
Toaster, are item shots used up if you are roleblocked while using them?
No.
Post by: notquitethere on June 07, 2021, 01:40:12 am
As scum might have a revive etc., it is still quite important that we get this right. Fallacy, if you're town what do you have to say about your attack on Prefuzek D1, and Jim being on D1 Blu wagon?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 09:34:48 am
You could argue that scum would do the same, and, you're right. Scum could and should do the same.
But there's a difference. FoU has no compelling cases because they're fiction. A town!FoU would be pushing for Jim harder, trying to find the one post that solves the game. But they can't, because no such solve exists. The self-vote and shortening is a pure mafia move. It either makes us doubt they could be mafia or ends their suffering sooner. It's a pure emotional appeal and I'm not falling for it again.
FoU, you can still push for Jim today. Tric is a swing vote, if you convince me I am also a swing vote. That's three votes on Jim. If you're town you should be able to solve Jim. I think you realize you can't because you're mafia and therefore are retreating to the self-sacrifice play that either keeps you alive another day or ends the game sooner, which makes far more sense from a mafia POV.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 09:43:56 am
On N1 what was your flavor like? When you got redirected from Jim to me?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 10:24:08 am
Why haven't you given an item list? Spill the beans. Tell us what you got and when.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 07, 2021, 11:04:23 am
I don't like the defeatist self-vote, but if there's nothing he can do even if he does try, we shouldn't put him through that.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 11:19:03 am
For example:
This is a great point.Alternatively, Jim was the killer and we'll find out very soon.You did praise BK's vote on me near the end of Day 1 as a bold and fresh direction before deciding to vote him a little bit later. Also letting ToonyMan know you were randomizing BK during N1 could've been mechanical cover for him for D2 that didn't end up working out since I randomized you.
I also noticed that NQT voted Jim first today which is a strange snap decision to make. Did he really think FoU was off the hook, just like that?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 11:28:34 am
Why would mafia!FoU confirm that Tric is mechanically cleared? It makes me and Tric confirmed town instead of just me.
See how easy this is?
Post by: notquitethere on June 07, 2021, 11:52:51 am
But yes, there are easy angles to explore here that Fallacy isn't exploring. He's focused on the mechanical puzzle of it, and no real push on Jim or mine's behaviour.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 11:56:36 am
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 07, 2021, 12:07:50 pm
@FoU:I was distracted by something, then I realized that I had used the scroll on the wrong target.
On N1 what was your flavor like? When you got redirected from Jim to me?
My prejudice in favour of short days is long establishedI think you mean preference, heheh.
But yes, there are easy angles to explore here that Fallacy isn't exploring. He's focused on the mechanical puzzle of it, and no real push on Jim or mine's behaviour.Toony pointed this out earlier, yes. So I went ahead and checked over Jim's previous behavior. There isn't much that massively sticks out, however, there is one point I can make as a result of Jim's behavior Day 1. I don't think it'll be enough to sway the vote, but it is something town should be aware of, so I'll bring it up.
Actually, make that two points, now that I think about it.
I don't see this. FallacyofUrist stuck his neck out for his scum partner NQT during Magic Mafia on Day 2 even after Vector got the guilty inspect on him. Trying to save his scum partners while being scum is something he's willing to do.The weaker point is that Jim, on Day 2, voted me first, instead of BluarianKnight first. If he was scum, it would make sense to do this. (Additionally he was very late to vote Bluarian, but I don't think that means much)
Actually yes let's vote FallacyofUrist. He successfully steered the lynch off of BluearianKnight very late into Day 1.
Yes I am suggesting him and BK are partners.
Now for the stronger point.
On Day 1, Jim seemed to be taking up the role of a commentator. Feeling like 50% a spectator to the game, focusing more on talking about what's going on instead of engaging with it. The questions he's asking Day 1 feel... off.
I don't think this is very definitive, and maybe it's nothing at all, but it's what I've noticed.
Post by: notquitethere on June 07, 2021, 12:33:53 pm
As I claimed on D1, my bonus item I got for randomising my role was:
Scroll of Remove Curse (immunity to curses)
Then D1 I picked up:
Scroll of Confusion (randomise)
Scroll of Protection (protect)
I attempted to use the scroll of confusion on Blu as I thought Blu might kill me.
Then D2 I picked up:
Wand of Shapeshift (frame)
Scroll of Curse Armor (make kills against target 33% unblockable, counter enchant armor)
These were trash and so I used protect on Toony, who I figured had a good chance of being the NK target.
If executing Fallacy doesn't end the game, tonight I hopefully will pick up something useful. But if I don't I will use Curse Armor on someone I don't think will be NK'd. They will get a message saying they were cursed, and thereby confirming my action. Cursing them won't matter as then the game will probably be in LYLO anyway.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 03:24:51 pm
Selected Archaeologist, starts with no items.
Started game with nothing.
N1:
1. Went questing and found a common Scroll of Joined Fate.
2. Used Scroll of Joined Fates on Jim, but was randomized to me by NQT.
N2:
1. Went questing and found a Potion of Volume.
2. Couldn't do anything else.
Currently possess a Potion of Volume.
Jim claim:
Random Scavenger, starts with a common item.
Started game with a common Scroll of Shapeshift.
N1:
1. Went questing and found a common Scroll of Insight and Scroll of Hallucination.
2. Used Scroll of Hallucination on NQT.
3. Received a Potion of Invincibility from TricMagic.
N2:
1. Went questing and found a common Scroll of Protection and Scroll of Enchant Weapon.
2. Used Scroll of Protection on NQT.
Currently possess a Scroll of Shapeshift, a Scroll of Insight, a Potion of Invincibility, and a Scroll of Enchant Weapon.
NQT claim:
Random Scavenger, starts with a common item.
Started game with a common Scroll of Remove Curse.
N1:
1. Went questing and found a common Scroll of Confusion and Scroll of Protection.
2. Used Scroll of Confusion on Blue, was randomized to FoU by Jim.
N2:
1. Went questing and found an uncommon Wand of Shapeshift and a common Scroll of Curse Armor (I guess Scavenger can roll for two different rarities?).
2. Used Scroll of Protection on Toony.
Currently possess a Scroll of Remove Curse, a Wand of Shapeshift, and a Scroll of Curse Armor.
...Okay screw it, let's kill FoU.
Shorten
Post by: FallacyofUrist on June 07, 2021, 03:31:17 pm
Good luck, friends.
To reiterate:
FallacyofUrist. Shorten.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 03:32:38 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 07, 2021, 03:33:50 pm
Post by: notquitethere on June 07, 2021, 03:37:20 pm
Post by: Toaster on June 07, 2021, 04:59:08 pm
notquitethere: TricMagic
TricMagic:
FallacyofUrist: ToonyMan, notquitethere, Jim Groovester, FallacyofUrist
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
FallacyofUrist bows his head. “It is not me, I assure you. I am just an Archeologist who wanted to study the beauty of these crypts. If I must die, well, this is a lovely place to do so. Please make it quick, if you must.”
He is granted his last request.
Indeed, as you study his pack, there’s no reason to suspect he was telling anything but the truth. A journal is found with extensive notes on architecture, with accompanying sketches. You have missed this day.
Will you miss the next day? Will the next day come at all?
FallacyofUrist has been lynched! He was an Archeologist (Town).
Night 3 has begun! Night 3 will last until Tuesday, 6/8 at 10 PM EDT.
Post by: Toaster on June 08, 2021, 09:38:25 pm
No one has been killed.
Day 4 has begun! Day 4 will last until Friday, 6/11 at 10 PM EST.
There are seven items in the public pool.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2021, 09:39:30 pm
I'll lose my mind if it isn't FoU.
lolololololol
here we go!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 08, 2021, 09:47:17 pm
I got a Scroll of Door Creation at the end of Day 3. I tried to use it on notquitethere.
I suspect it's notquitethere but it could be ToonyMan if I take a deep enough draught of the wine in front of me. TricMagic still doesn't make any sense. Whoever it is, I think scum no killed during Night 4.
Separately from all this (but will affect the amount of effort I put in this game tonight) I had a pretty shitty day.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 08, 2021, 09:50:11 pm
Night 4
Meant Night 3 but whatever.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2021, 09:52:25 pm
1. Me and Tric are confirmed town
2. Jim and NQT are going to cross vote each other
3. I think Jim is mafia
4. Tric thinks NQT is mafia
5. We can't vote no lynch because we know the last mafia may have a lylo breaker
Last night I was thinking it may actually be better if I didn't block anybody, since it would allow Jim or NQT to confirm themselves on Tric while the mafia killed me, but I was worried that mafia would win immediately if they had a lylo breaker so I had to block just to be safe.
PPE:
it could be ToonyMan if I take a deep enough draught of the wine in front of meLiterally impossible. Tric can confirm I redirected him onto FoU during N2 while Web died.
Also, Jim Groovester.
Now I just need to convince Tric that Jim is the last mafia, oh boy...
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2021, 10:31:53 pm
I needed to decide who to block after all.
I didn't take written notes, but I came to the conclusion that FoU was correct that Jim is the partner.
Since I'm not dead I'm going to build a case for Jim and NQT today.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 08, 2021, 10:34:16 pm
3. I think Jim is mafia
ToonyMan I need you to have an open mind about me because otherwise we'll lose the game.
PPE:it could be ToonyMan if I take a deep enough draught of the wine in front of meLiterally impossible. Tric can confirm I redirected him onto FoU during N2 while Web died.
If you're going to tell me there's no combination of items that you could have used to 'confirm' yourself while performing a kill, that is incorrect. Potion of Rage exists, which is a rare item. Hey, what rarity of item did BluearianKnight's Potion of Insurance bring into the game after his death?
Is it likely? Not really.
I'll do digging, but really not feeling mafia, or anything, today.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 08, 2021, 11:52:14 pm
Then convince me that it's NQT.3. I think Jim is mafiaToonyMan I need you to have an open mind about me because otherwise we'll lose the game.
Arguing that the mafia is me or Tric will lose us the game. You cannot push this angle.
I'll do digging, but really not feeling mafia, or anything, today.It's fine, we have until Friday and I don't expect this day to be shortened.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 12:04:31 am
If you're going to tell me there's no combination of items that you could have used to 'confirm' yourself while performing a kill, that is incorrect. Potion of Rage exists, which is a rare item. Hey, what rarity of item did BluearianKnight's Potion of Insurance bring into the game after his death?It's actually impossible.
Is it likely? Not really.
Potion of Rage item description:
Quote
In addition to your other action, you kill your target. You may only take one other action tonight regardless of other effects, and you cannot vote the next day due to exhaustion, but this kill is unblockable and bypasses one protection.
Vote Count at end of D3:
Vote Count:
notquitethere: TricMagic
TricMagic:
FallacyofUrist: ToonyMan, notquitethere, Jim Groovester, FallacyofUrist
Jim Groovester:
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Post by: notquitethere on June 09, 2021, 01:54:18 am
Anyway, someone redirected me to Jim. Even if I didn't know from POE that Jim was scum, the fact he hasn't mentioned being blessed is damning.
Jim Groovester
I'll be looking back through the items again to make sure there's no some weird combo that could make Tric or Toony a killer on N2. I somehow doubt it!
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 07:27:42 am
N3 actions:
Toony blocked Jim
Jim tried to do something, blocked
NQT targeted Tric with Bless Armor, got redirected to Jim
Tric redirected NQT to Jim?
The thing is, either one as mafia is probably smart enough not to kill at this point (unless they have a juicy lylo breaker). Look at my mafia play at the end of Roguelike Mafia 6. I chose to not kill multiple nights in a row since it was mylo/lylo and I couldn't risk being outed as solo scum.
Post by: TricMagic on June 09, 2021, 07:57:28 am
I targeted Tric with bless armor (which I picked up last night). I picked Tric because I needed to convince him most of all that I wasn't killing anyone.
Anyway, someone redirected me to Jim. Even if I didn't know from POE that Jim was scum, the fact he hasn't mentioned being blessed is damning.
Jim Groovester
I'll be looking back through the items again to make sure there's no some weird combo that could make Tric or Toony a killer on N2. I somehow doubt it!
Got it!
Jim, NQT, Toony, what items do you have left? It's entirely possible to force a confrontation here if the stars align.
Post by: notquitethere on June 09, 2021, 08:14:57 am
Scroll of Remove Curse
Wand of Shapeshift
Scroll of Curse Armor
Wand of Ill Will (newly picked up)
Probably won't come to it, as we'll win when we get rid of Jim.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 08:20:33 am
Post by: TricMagic on June 09, 2021, 10:19:07 am
GM, are players alerted that they are poisoned?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 11:27:20 am
I'll agree to a no lynch if we can't convince each other. It's better than being wrong and mafia will only kill if they have a lylo breaker, which is very unlikely. If they do kill then the other player can confirm themselves and we likely win. If they don't kill we get a chance to grab more items.
Jim has a Potion of Invincibility so even if Jim and NQT had kill items it would be risky to have them cross kill each other.
Post by: notquitethere on June 09, 2021, 12:17:20 pm
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 12:35:39 pm
Post by: TricMagic on June 09, 2021, 12:37:06 pm
If you were town, the Wand of Ill Will would be the better choice, as it could randomize Jim into self-targeting or hitting you, poison them so they die the next night, outright roleblock them, or remove one of their items, reducing the chance of a lylo breaker. But you already know why that's a bad idea, as Jim isn't the mafia so it's not of any use to you to give town another day.
Nin..
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 12:45:17 pm
or remove one of their items, reducing the chance of a lylo breaker.That too, it's by far the best option.
By the way, you don't need say ninja in your post, you can use Pre-Post Edit (PPE) to communicate with the new information. Saying nin is meaningless besides signifying you've read the new posts, which is pointless as WE ARE ALL READING THE NEW POSTS.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 04:45:44 pm
Let this be a lesson for future mafia players. (https://youtu.be/5fRdovmsMQQ)
These posts won't be in chronological order and just things I want to point out at the time.
First things first, Day 3.
Day 3 FoU Mislynch - or - The Attitude of Mafia vs Town Towards A Mislynch
Day 3 starts with Webadict killed, there's five players alive.
NQT, Tric, Bluarian, FoU, Jim, and Toony.
There's only one mafia left, so the remaining mafia killed Webadict.
Tric and Toony have hard alibis.
FoU has a soft alibi.
NQT and Jim have no alibi.
We're only going to be looking at NQT and Jim as one of them is the remaining mafia.
Jim
#616 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285591#msg8285591) - Jim starts the day wondering if maybe Web caused the death of himself by using their Scroll of Command to kill themselves on FoU. They also claim Random Scavenger along with their night actions.
Protecting NQT N2 is an odd choice, otherwise that part is NAI. Musing that Web may have killed himself using a Scroll of Command on FoU is like Jim is trying to open the POE. He needs to plant the idea in your head that FoU is still a possible killer as well. Could be scummy, could be NAI.
#630 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285679#msg8285679) - Jim votes for FoU. They think that regardless of the POE or not FoU is most likely scum. They state that if FoU isn't scum then the game gets more interesting, but they don't want to bother thinking unless they have to.
Lazy Jim = Mafia Jim.
#645 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285715#msg8285715) - Jim gives me their list of items and night actions. It's done in a timely manner. Jim defends themselves from FoU's accusations. Jim thinks Tric is most likely town.
Jim respecting my request is polite, it's not clear whether they're lying or not so that's NAI. Jim throws shades on FoU which is expected. They also clear Tric as town, but interestingly don't address NQT at all. Mafia!Jim could be leaving NQT open as the next mislynch. I don't see any towntells in this post.
#659 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285740#msg8285740) - Jim defends themselves from NQT after NQT supposes that Jim is the killer if FoU is not. Jim brings up good points for why NQT could be scum instead of himself.
Defensive Jim. I like their points against NQT, but obviously I can't tell if he's being honest or not.
#673 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285894#msg8285894) - Jim asks Toony if there's anything FoU could possibly dig up to convince him. Jim doesn't like the defeatist self-vote, but doesn't think FoU should struggle to try if nothing comes of it.
Weirdly pessimistic post from Jim. Why shouldn't FoU try? FoU was clearly trying during D3 even though they self-voted, it's what made me unsure of their alignment personally. I really hated the self-vote and it meant nothing to me, but trying to help town with info felt very townie. If FoU kept their vote on Jim I was seriously considering switching my vote. Let that be a lesson for townies that self-vote.
Overall, Jim is underrepresenting himself and not trying to solve. He gives the impression that he may have already been aware that FoU was innocent. He is either having a seriously poor town game or they're mafia.
NQT
#617 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285599#msg8285599) - NQT starts the day intrigued and claims they also picked Random Scavenger. They list their night actions. They're surprised Web was picked as the kill (instead of Toony or Tric?)
Protecting me for N2 as the most likely to be town makes sense, otherwise it's a NAI post.
]#621 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285634#msg8285634) - NQT thinks the mafia has to be between themselves and Jim unless FoU got around the redirect. They question how Tric could think that they're partners with Blue. They vote Jim.
Voting Jim here first instead of FoU is incredibly gutsy as mafia. Mafia!NQT would be willingly setting themselves up for POE, knowing that Tric has a vendetta against them and that Jim would flip town in this world. It's a losing play. This is a town POV post.
#626 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285655#msg8285655) - NQT switches their vote to FoU after Toony votes for FoU. They give vote analysis reasons as for why. They admit they thought FoU was town before, but aren't so sure now. They tell Tric they can confirm themselves tonight.
NQT justifies their vote switch and gives reasons for why. Could just be mafia switching from one town or another still so let's not give them the benefit of the doubt and go with NAI.
#628 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285658#msg8285658) - NQT agrees with Toony that FoU could still be the killer actually. Says that FoU fits better for scum with Blue here and that Jim needlessly imperiled their partner Blue here.
Again, NQT goes out of their way to reason they think FoU is more likely scum than Jim behaviorally, and now that they've realized the "Web using a Scroll of Command on FoU" angle they're willing to vote FoU. This looks natural to me. This post is from a town POV. NQT isn't aware that FoU is actually town.
#648 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285720#msg8285720) - NQT covers Jim from FoU. They state that Toony and Tric look to be mechanically cleared.
NQT stands up for Jim here, stating that behaviorally they wouldn't be partners with Blue. He pushes the "Web kills himself with Scroll of Command" scenario as why FoU could have still performed the kill, the very scenario that Jim implants at the start of the day. NQT's post here is sticking up for everyone as town besides FoU. It's insane from a mafia POV.
#651 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285725#msg8285725) - NQT hypothesizes the Scroll of Command scenario again. They state that alternatively Jim would be the killer and that we'll find out very soon. They jokingly ask scum to throw in the towel.
This post could be scummy, it makes sense from NQT's POV but for people who don't know his alignment I find it unnerving.
#652 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285727#msg8285727) - NQT justifies the Scroll of Command scenario further. Asks the mod a question.
Normal, nothing to say here.
#653 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285729#msg8285729) - NQT defends Jim as town with evidence. "Goes well beyond just distancing. Not impossible but not expected."
This post is super townie. Why does mafia!NQT even bother? If NQT is mafia this is the best I've ever seen him play as mafia. Mafia knows FoU is a mislynch, they don't need to look into other players for townie behavior.
#654 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285731#msg8285731) - NQT attacks FoU with evidence. "Just on the D1 behavior alone, Jim comes out over Fallacy.
An understandable accusation towards FoU. Is clearly trying to solve the game.
#658 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285738#msg8285738) - NQT looks through more of D1 and finds possible evidence towards Jim being mafia from a past-NQT thought, albeit unlikely.
Looks genuine. Proactive.
#660 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285741#msg8285741) - NQT is going to think more about Jim being mafia. Points out that if Blue had a Potion of Insurance then his buddy will have a Rare item of some sort.
NAI post.
#669 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285816#msg8285816) - NQT doesn't like self-voting as a town strategy. Tries to pull more info out of FoU.
Just like myself, NQT is trying to learn more from FoU in case he's wrong. It doesn't look like NQT knows that he's wrong.
#676 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285907#msg8285907) - NQT defends themselves from Toony. Thinks that FoU should be trying more.
Opposite opinion of Jim. NQT even says "no real push on Jim or mine's behavior" which is interesting, he even includes himself.
#679 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285923#msg8285923) - NQT finally claims their items. They address what they will be doing at night.
The extremely late item claim is annoying because I was asking for it a lot, so scum points for being so late about it. I thought it was pretty obvious they would be targeting Tric last tonight so that's NAI.
#684 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8285963#msg8285963) - NQT is the third and final vote on shortening the day, effectively hammering FoU.
Could be scummy. I was fed up with FoU self-voting so I decided to shorten, FoU and NQT appeared out of nowhere right after to shorten. Could be NQT trying to push for their win, but NQT clearly doesn't have a lylo breaker as they didn't attempt to kill last night. I purposely threw shade on NQT to make it unclear who I would block last night, so NQT should have went for the kill if they had a lylo breaker, but they didn't. I can only conclude that NQT doesn't have a lylo breaker.
Overall, NQT is active and appears to want to solve. They don't appear to be aware of FoU's alignment. This is the best I've seen NQT's mafia play or they're town.
Tune in next time for Day 1 Who Is Also Blue? - or - Why It Matters To Be Popular
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 04:50:07 pm
Day 3 starts with Webadict killed, there's five players alive.
NQT, Tric,Bluarian, FoU, Jim, and Toony.
I can't count.
Post by: Toaster on June 09, 2021, 06:58:13 pm
Well, those aren't helpful.
GM, are players alerted that they are poisoned?
No.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 09, 2021, 08:55:47 pm
Day 1 started with nine players:
Jack, NQT, Tric, Pref, Bluarian, Web, FoU, Jim, and Toony.
Jack, Pref, Web, and FoU are dead town.
Toony and Tric are cleared town.
Blue is dead mafia.
NQT and Jim are the potential suspects with Blue.
So who's the mafia partner with Blue? Who is also Blue? (https://youtu.be/Q7BxASTDXAA)
Bluarian's Interactions with Jim
#54 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283074#msg8283074) - Jim asks Blue why they're always scum. Blue responds pretty normally.
Very cheeky of Jim to ask this if they're partners with Blue. It's NAI otherwise though.
#144 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283369#msg8283369) - Blue's first reads list. I'll get to this later.
#233 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283764#msg8283764) - Jim points out that Blue has a lot of people in their scum range, four players (Jack, Toony, Pref, Tric) to be exact. Blue thinks it's Tric/Pref or Toony/Pref or Toony/X.
This looks like a MxM interaction to me. Jim wants their partner to specify their made up mafia team. It's important to note that all four of these scum read players are actually town.
#277 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283902#msg8283902) - Jim pushes Blue to pressure Jack and Tric more, both town players. Blue resolves that they think they're simply newbie and thus null. They move their vote to NQT instead, with Pref as the partner. Jim also responds to Blue's question about SKs, how helpful.
Jim could be trying to get Blue to be more aggressive here, it's a convincing act. We know now that Blue is mafia and that the players they were attacking early in D1 were all town, so I wouldn't put it past mafia!Jim to play with Blue in this way. I'll cover the NQT vote in the next section.
#325 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284139#msg8284139) - Pref attacks Blue for voting NQT. Blue defends themselves while throwing shade on Toony, Jim, and Pref.
The slight shade throw on Jim is interesting considering that me and Pref were top scum picks for Blue while Jim was a top town pick for Blue. In fact, NQT dropped a lot from null-townlean to their current vote target.
#353 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284238#msg8284238) - The most interesting post Blue has made in the game happens here. Currently, NQT is the top wagon with 4 players on them (FoU, Web, Blue, and Tric). Just recently NQT voted Web and Toony followed suit making the vote count:
notquitethere - 4 - FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
prefuzek: - 2 - Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: - 1 - prefuzek
webadict: - 2 - notquitethere, ToonyMan
NQT and Pref are still attacking Blue. NQT thinks that Blue is a bandwagoner and only sheeping people's votes. Blue denies they wagoned Jack, but admits they've been slacking and state they will change that. After defending themselves from Pref as well Blue attempts to start a wagon on Jim, claiming that Jim is sitting back and not exposing themselves.
Huh??
Where the hell did this come from? They rip into Jim with a bunch of shit out of nowhere. Up until this point Blue has made no strong accusations of Jim, they threw slight shade on Jim in post #325 sure, but that was alongside me and Pref. Otherwise Jim and FoU were their top town picks.
It gets more crazy in post #359 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284255#msg8284255) when Jim then votes Blue and NQT hops on right after in post #360 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284261#msg8284261). Absolute madness.
If the team is Blue/Jim that means Blue jumped off the NQT wagon and the two mafia started a cross vote among themselves. NQT joined up with Jim and voted Blue with him. As did myself and Web.
#394 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284354#msg8284354) - Blue reels hard from the wagon that has formed on them at this point after voting Jim. The players on the Blue wagon now are Pref, Jim, NQT, Toony, and Web. Blue states they think both mafia are on their wagon. They think it's either Jim/Toony or Jim/NQT, although NQT was "already laying out multiple suspects, so I think it's Toony and Jim, personally."
Pure WIFOM. We know the last mafia is either Jim or NQT. Blue could be saying they think it's Jim over NQT because Jim is mafia or because NQT is mafia, it's pure WIFOM and we can't consider it.
(Does make NQT look worse though in my opinion.)
#407 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284369#msg8284369) - Blue moves their vote off of Jim and onto Web.
Jim was never voted by anybody but Blue. Blue also wasn't lynched on D1, Pref was. So whether the team is Jim/Blue or NQT/Blue it was a success.
#430 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284395#msg8284395) - Blue then moves to vote Pref and the day ends with Pref dead.
Jim eventually moves their vote off of mafia!Blue onto town!FoU and then town!Pref.
In conclusion, Blue barely interacts with Jim while reading them as one of the strongest town in the game. When NQT and Pref pressure Blue over bandwagoning they attempt to start a bandwagon on...Jim. Which backfires horribly, but doesn't end in their death either. Very unnatural vote switch to Jim. It also got a vote off NQT, but not only did NQT and Blue's arguments look natural, why would they butt heads in the first place?
I think it's likely that Jim is the mafia partner from this.
Bluarian's Interactions with NQT
#54 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283074#msg8283074) - NQT asks Blue if it's acceptable for town to pick Thief, Blue says "I think so?" with some reasonings after. Pretty normal.
NAI.
#144 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283369#msg8283369) - Blue's first reads list. I'll get to this later.
#233 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283764#msg8283764) - NQT questions Blue about their vote on Tric. Blue says they think Tric has been getting less scummy each post they make so they unvote Tric. Throws more shade on Pref. NQT voted Blue earlier so Blue also defends themselves by trying to justify their votes on Jack and Tric.
Blue backpedals off of Jack and Tric after NQT votes them over it. Sticks to their guns about Pref though. Doesn't look like MxM to me. NQT is applying pressure on Blue and Blue (being mafia) is trying to justify themselves. It's a harder push than Jim simply questioning Blue's large amount of scum reads.
#277 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283902#msg8283902) - After being pushed by Jim, Blue moves their vote onto NQT and states they think the mafia team is NQT/Pref.
This is a very natural looking bus if the team is NQT/Blue. It's so good I don't believe it.
#284 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8283962#msg8283962) - NQT uses logic to question Blue's statement that NQT and Perf are partners. Blue tries to justify why they're voting NQT.
Again, this looks like Blue trying to attacking a town player. Blue is mafia so they know if they're voting their partner or not. This doesn't look like Blue attacking their partner to me, the act is very convincing if that's the case. In a power heavy game such as this one with 2 mafia and 7 town it's crazy to cross vote and bus each other, which is currently what NQT and Blue are doing on D1. This would be the most omega brained D1 play I've seen from mafia.
#312 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284052#msg8284052) - Blue continues to defend their vote on NQT from NQT. They continue to justify why they are voting NQT.
If this is a MxM interaction NQT and Blue are play-acting like champs. To me this looks like Blue trying to legitimately start a mislynch on town!NQT. Remember that a solo scum is especially fucked the earlier in this game mode they have to play solo because of town-confirmable actions.
#325 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284139#msg8284139) - Pref attacks Blue for voting NQT. Blue defends themselves while throwing shade on Toony, Jim, and Pref.
Admits to jumping on the NQT bandwagon alongside Web and Tric. Why would mafia bandwagon their own on D1 like this?
#353 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284238#msg8284238) - Again, the most interesting post Blue has made in the game happens here. Currently, NQT is the top wagon with 4 players on them (FoU, Web, Blue, and Tric). Just recently NQT voted Web and Toony followed suit making the vote count:
notquitethere - 4 - FallacyofUrist, webadict, BluarianKnight, TricMagic
prefuzek: - 2 - Jim Groovester, EuchreJack
BluarianKnight: - 1 - prefuzek
webadict: - 2 - notquitethere, ToonyMan
NQT and Pref are still attacking Blue. NQT thinks that Blue is a bandwagoner and only sheeping people's votes. Blue denies they wagoned Jack, but admits they've been slacking and state they will change that. After defending themselves from Pref as well Blue attempts to start a wagon on Jim, they move their vote off of NQT to do so.
Not only is the jump to Jim extremely unnatural, but it does remove a vote from the NQT wagon. Was Blue doing this to help NQT out? Why would they even put themselves in this situation in the first place if they're partners together?
It gets more crazy in post #359 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284255#msg8284255) when Jim then votes Blue and NQT hops on right after in post #360 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284261#msg8284261). Absolute madness. Me and Web soon join right after.
Thus a NQT wagon becomes a Blue wagon. If the team is NQT/Blue this was a huge fuckup from the mafia team. NQT hopping onto the Blue wagon with Jim looks more natural than Blue and Jim crossvoting each other. NQT has stated reasons through the whole game so far why they think Blue is scum. Jim and Blue cross vote like it's a magic trick, out of thin air.
#394 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178523.msg8284354#msg8284354) - Blue reels hard from the wagon that has formed on them at this point after voting Jim. The players on the Blue wagon now are Pref, Jim, NQT, Toony, and Web. Blue states they think both mafia are on their wagon. They think it's either Jim/Toony or Jim/NQT, although NQT was "already laying out multiple suspects, so I think it's Toony and Jim, personally."
Pure WIFOM. We know the last mafia is either Jim or NQT. Blue could be saying they think it's Jim over NQT because Jim is mafia or because NQT is mafia, it's pure WIFOM and we can't consider it.
And that's pretty much it. Blue then moves off of Jim onto Web and then Pref.
NQT never moves their vote off of mafia!Blue.
In conclusion, NQT gets in a huge battle with Blue throughout Day 1. With the help of Pref they both attack Blue who defends themselves from NQT before switching to Jim, which never takes off. Their arguments look natural and hostile. If there's a bus going on this would be a very strong bus on D1.
Therefore I think NQT is likely town.
Why It Matters To Be Popular has been delayed. I don't feel like including it in this post. It will be about other player's reads of Jim and NQT.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 09, 2021, 09:17:33 pm
I did not expect it coming into this week but it has turned into a bad one for me to play milo in.
My Friday is busy so I probably won't be around for the deadline. Tomorrow might be better but we'll see. I would not expect to see much out of me for the rest of Day 4.
Post by: notquitethere on June 10, 2021, 03:51:28 am
If you were town, the Wand of Ill Will would be the better choice, as it could randomize Jim into self-targeting or hitting you, poison them so they die the next night, outright roleblock them, or remove one of their items, reducing the chance of a lylo breaker. But you already know why that's a bad idea, as Jim isn't the mafia so it's not of any use to you to give town another day.I had originally thinking of using Curse Armor to nullify the effect of the bless armor you made me give Jim. But you and Toony are right: Ill Wind is a better use. I think I was discounting it because there's potential for blowback (like, it might redirect to me). But now I think about it more, that's something I want: if Jim uses a kill and it's redirected to me, then he's scuppered and town win the game.
If Jim has a revive then it's still possible for town to lose the game here. He just needs to get off one kill, be lynched, revive, then get off the other kill. We have reason to think he has a rare item (though Blu might well have lied about having potion of insurance), and that item might be Amulet of Life Saving. So I'd really like you to consider Toony's post and if you disagree, then say why! Don't take the lazy route of doubling down on your tunnel.
Understandable Jim, be good to yourself.
Post by: TricMagic on June 10, 2021, 07:31:23 am
The biggest flaws in Jim's game is of course not mentioning bless armor. I personally would have preferred if Mafia tried to kill me and redirected onto the other target.
Anyway, Jim Groovester, been an honor. Shorten.
It's 100% NQT if we survive to day five and you're town. But at a certain point lack of pointy-ness will drag on the ground.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2021, 08:11:39 am
In order of preference I would vote:
Jim > No Lynch > NQT
Since it's very unlikely NQT has a lylo breaker.
If you want to be ultra safe it's also unlikely Jim has a lylo breaker, but unlike NQT it's actually possible.
The biggest flaws in Jim's game is of course not mentioning bless armor.So? Jim didn't mention receiving any item from you on D2 either until you brought it up.
That's a good point though.
@Jim:
Were you blessed last night?
It's 100% NQT if we survive to day five and you're town. But at a certain point lack of pointy-ness will drag on the ground.I hope you have some way to stop NQT if I'm wrong.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2021, 08:18:11 am
(https://i.imgur.com/rsCMKsp.gif)
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 10, 2021, 09:21:43 am
@Jim:
Were you blessed last night?
Yes.
I don't know what silly mastermind plan nqt or TricMagic is accusing me of by not mentioning it.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2021, 09:50:51 am
Webadict was killed by mafia.
Tric was redirected from Web (by me) onto FoU, which FoU confirmed.
I couldn't find any mechanical way Tric could use an Ill Will Scroll on FoU while also killing Web N2. So if there's a mastermind that's playing you Jim, it's NQT. And that means NQT is playing all of us.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 10, 2021, 10:47:33 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2021, 10:53:28 am
It's three to shorten so now if me or NQT votes shorten we would be effectively hammering Jim.
I'm too scared to hammer so if NQT is mafia we'll find out shortly.
Post by: notquitethere on June 10, 2021, 11:05:16 am
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2021, 11:05:51 am
I will shorten if NQT doesn't do it by tonight though.
NQT can't drop in with a "lol shorten" post anyway since there's a chance me and Tric could pull items to stop him tonight if Jim is town.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 10, 2021, 11:07:09 am
I'm happy to hammer. Shorten. Toony, you were wrong about Fallacy but your reading of me was correct, as we shall all shortly see.Awesome. Sorry FoU.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2021, 01:33:54 am
TricMagic:
Jim Groovester: ToonyMan, notquitethere, TricMagic
ToonyMan:
Not Voting:
Jim Groovester is today's selected target. Flinging accusations and insults, the other three surround him. He narrows his eyes, then steps back and draws a dagger, pointing it at each in turn. "I... I didn't even want to work for the Necromancer! We were forced! We had no choice! BluarianKnight forced me into it; it was all him! I'm just a scavenger!" He backs into a corner. The others advance.
"Please! Let me go! Let me out of here! You can stop this stupid... Gah!" Jim grabs his head and staggers, a small trail of blood leaking out his nose. "Must... stop... can't... no!" He flings himself at Notquitethere, attempting to stab him. The other Scavenger falls backwards into the ancient debris of the floor. TricMagic, true to his name, pulls out a bag of powder and throws it in Jim's face.
"Stop this nonsense! Get off him!"
"Never... I... must..." Jim steps back, lurching back and forth... then slashes again at TricMagic, the blade nearing his throat...
Jim falls to the floor, stone dead. ToonyMan sighs, the Warrior already wiping off his blade. "Fool. Why trifle with evil magic? It clearly owned him... all the more reason to break this attack."
With no more arguments, the group moves on to find the focus. A couple hours of walking down into the depths finds it, tucked away into a sealed room which the bishop's key opens. The walk back, though grim, feels faster than the trip down here. You make your delivery to the bishop. Nodding his thanks, he calls in his fellow monks and shoos the group out. Watching from the top of the gate, the magic chanting fills the air... and bursts into a crescendo. A wave of positive energy blasts from the monastery, eradicating the undead in its path. The monastery is safe once more.
The crew packs their bags and heads their separate ways. Notquitethere stays behind, now offered a permanent position at the monastery. ToonyMan hitches a ride with the caravan that was stuck inside, replacing a guard that fell in the initial fight. And Tric heads back to the city, his head filled with new verses.
Jim Groovester has been lynched! He was a Scavenger (Mafia).
Game over! Town has won!
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2021, 01:39:11 am
Dead Chat (https://www.quicktopic.com/53/H/hpmdJQnKCFpV)
Actions (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1TsMr818r-Kn-j-gV0qtgjrpq4r2JhWVRtRYHS7QerUA/edit?usp=sharing)
Flavor (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UncHmt2yNPN7raMMbuYSqs2UcnwpXnvU9_kz-gSRLfE/edit?usp=sharing)
Thought that all went pretty well. Good play at the beginning, but the mafia got penned in by night actions. I think (at least in this current environment) that the night actions give too much information and it should be cut back... but it does make it harder to write flavor.
Also, I think it's time for the public pool to go. I'm not sure what it actually adds to the game except being a headache for me. Can anyone think of a convincing reason for it to stay?
Post by: notquitethere on June 11, 2021, 04:02:43 am
I should have found the joint bussing between Jim and Blu less alignment indicative, that's something I'll try to bring forward. I can be pleased though I managed to spot one scum player on D1.
It didn't come up, but I actually had a wand of protection with another charge of it, not a scroll. I kept that secret in case I needed to protect someone if we went into the night with three players.
Toaster, what you could do to make it less night-solvable but still retain flavour, is keep the acting-upon flavour but avoid most of the being-acted-upon flavour. So if the general rule is players don't know if they've been randomised or blessed or blocked etc. Alternatively, put some more elements in to discourage early mass-claims. Some possible ideas:
- a third-party hoarder who has the ability to steal known items
- more illusionary scrolls so mafia can fake action reports
- instead of acting at night, players can opt to raid the public pool or quest a second time -> this may lead to more players unaccounted for in any given set of claims
As for the public pool: as a scavenger there was never a good reason to go to the pool. In general it's even more of a gamble than normal questing, as it's going to be stuffed with items that weren't good enough for the dead people to want to use them. Did anyone pick up anything really good from it this game?
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2021, 06:58:35 am
I was on autopilot most of the game until FoU flipped town which blew my mind. I spent the night actually reading all of Day 1 and I'm glad I was correct.
Jim was going to kill Tric on N3...interesting. If I blocked NQT instead that would have been pretty rough for Jim to explain.
The Scroll of Attraction I used was from Pref, thanks Pref. I will never CFD again.
Post by: notquitethere on June 11, 2021, 07:27:30 am
Post by: EuchreJack on June 11, 2021, 08:05:48 am
At least, players of this game are likely to give Prefuzek the benefit of the doubt in future games after this mislynch. Will they use that to win as mafia? Who knows!
@Toony & Web: No more CFD. You both came across as scum in my eyes due to that.
@Mafia: You should have killed Toonyman on day 1. That, I think, cost you the game. But hey, I won, so thanks!
Otherwise, good game Jim. Blue did as good as they could with getting penned in by the items and players. Very good scum play, overall.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2021, 08:40:18 am
I think Prefuzek's lynch was due to their newness. Their meta could not be read, thus they were a liability. Nothing a couple more games can't fix!That's so not true. Pref's D1 play was super townie and competent. If you're voting someone for being unfamiliar that's just bad.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2021, 08:46:45 am
Toaster, what you could do to make it less night-solvable but still retain flavour, is keep the acting-upon flavour but avoid most of the being-acted-upon flavour. So if the general rule is players don't know if they've been randomised or blessed or blocked etc. Alternatively, put some more elements in to discourage early mass-claims. Some possible ideas:
- a third-party hoarder who has the ability to steal known items
- more illusionary scrolls so mafia can fake action reports
- instead of acting at night, players can opt to raid the public pool or quest a second time -> this may lead to more players unaccounted for in any given set of claims
As for the public pool: as a scavenger there was never a good reason to go to the pool. In general it's even more of a gamble than normal questing, as it's going to be stuffed with items that weren't good enough for the dead people to want to use them. Did anyone pick up anything really good from it this game?
Interesting on the hoarder third party. I've certainly played with the alignment setups in this game, but I've never really gone off the rails with interesting setups. I'll toy with some collection-based ideas.
"Decoy Potion [Uncommon]: Name a player. You are seen visiting this player." Ideas like this?
I do like the idea of replacing the pool with night quests. I could just redefine !none into quest again, though letting scavengers double-quest again feels like a lot.
Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?
Post by: EuchreJack on June 11, 2021, 08:52:56 am
I didn't think FoU or Pref were mafia at EoD1. I was literally losing my mind in the last hour probably because I hadn't been paying attention to the game. My last actual vote was on Bluarian which shows how having a cool and calm mind let's you win as town instead of freaking the fuck out and vote hopping.I think Prefuzek's lynch was due to their newness. Their meta could not be read, thus they were a liability. Nothing a couple more games can't fix!That's so not true. Pref's D1 play was super townie and competent. If you're voting someone for being unfamiliar that's just bad.
And if you had said that, Pref probably wouldn't have been lynched. See, I can say things that hurt other people's feelings too.
I thought they were scummy, ergo I voted them.
Post by: notquitethere on June 11, 2021, 09:07:46 am
"Decoy Potion : Name a player. You are seen visiting this player." Ideas like this?Yeah something like that, or it could be a fake blessing like "Name a player. Choose an effect out of "Bless Armor", "Curse Armor", "Block", "Poisoned". The chosen player will receive a report saying that they have been subject to that effect." Could add a couple more possibilities. Just the existence of this potion would throw into doubt many otherwise confirming claims
Letting scavengers double-quest again feels like a lot.Sure, you could limit it to the first quest per cycle (especially if their second quest has the normal % chance of getting artefacts).
Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?I thought it was quite useful. I always had an item accumulated that was of some use for any given night.
Post by: prefuzek on June 11, 2021, 09:21:01 am
At least, players of this game are likely to give Prefuzek the benefit of the doubt in future games after this mislynch. Will they use that to win as mafia? Who knows!Oh you bet I will.
Another option for helping scum out in the night is to allow them to use common items in addition to the scumkill.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 11, 2021, 09:30:50 am
In retrospect there were some misplays I wouldn't have made if I were better prepared for the game I was playing, but I think I did okay, except for milo. Maybe one of these days I'll be scum while not having a mid life crisis or whatever it is that's bothering me.
The game looks a lot different if the night game doesn't provide so much information. Being able to mechanically out a scum player as the killer at 7p is nuts, as is making two confirmed townies at 5p because of a redirect.
I think I had a shot at milo by going maximum effort mode but it was going to be an uphill battle regardless.
Also, BK is pretty good at being scum. It would help his scum game a lot if he could ever play a town game.
Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?
I feel like the scum team gets less benefit from the random item game in general since they can't both night kill and use an item. Having more items was of less use and the innate qualities of the class I.e. kill bypassing or redirection resistance would have been more useful.
Post by: webadict on June 11, 2021, 09:39:46 am
@Toony & Web: No more CFD. You both came across as scum in my eyes due to that.... No.
Toaster, some ways to balance/improve the game:
(Game speed related, and mostly things I like)
- 51% Shortens. Always.
- Generate items at Day start instead. Gives everyone time to plan, instead of learning at Day end and having to think.
(Balance-related)
- Action economy favors Town hard. Make the Mafiakill a bonus action instead. Gives some help to blending in without making it impossible to read action logic.
- Make claiming items super bad. Thieves stealing an item during the Day if they know their target owns it would be great.
- Scavengers are OP af. Way too many items, especially since the decrease in rarity is almost negligible.
- % abilities should have scaling effects, so a Ranger/Warrior/etc has a chance to make the flip (33% becomes 66% on a fail, then 99% on a second fail, and resets when it hits.)
- Archeologist should benefit harder.
(QoL-related)
- Make the public pool... Public? Also, make it only contain the items of the dead players within the last Day. This gives meaningful choices on what to do, since you can pick a specific item, instead of psuedorandom.
(Cool ideas-related)
- Make class-related items?
- Multi-classing??
- Prestige classes!?
- Progressive item rarities: Day 1 - 65/35/0/0, Day 2 - 50/30/20/0, Day 3 - 35/25/35/5, Day 4 - 20/20/50/10, Day 5 - 5/15/65/15, but, like, better balanced?!
- A guaranteed Artifact somehow!?!
- Amulet of Yendor!!!
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2021, 09:43:58 am
I'm not trying to offend anybody. The Pref wagon was a misplay. Most of us are guilty of it.
@Jim:
I was in your exact shoes for Roguelike Mafia 6. This game feels very town sided because of all the items yes. Felt impossible as solo scum without crazy luck.
@Bluarian:
How many times have you been town? Twice? This is getting ridiculous.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2021, 10:00:36 am
Also, BK is pretty good at being scum. It would help his scum game a lot if he could ever play a town game.
I rolled it up, saw the team, thought "Yeah, that's a cool interesting team," and it didn't even click until someone said it that BK is always scum.
Speaking of, Scavengers, how did you like your class?
I feel like the scum team gets less benefit from the random item game in general since they can't both night kill and use an item. Having more items was of less use and the innate qualities of the class I.e. kill bypassing or redirection resistance would have been more useful.
Interesting. It'd probably be great for a non-kill third party, and I'm fine with third parties getting more utility out of classes; they typically need help.
For the record, 6/9 players picked Random; I randomized everyone, then rerolled a random townie into Scavenger so that I could see both sides of the equation. Jim's Scavenger was naturally rolled.
---
Web:
I can do 51% shorten. I forget why I changed it, but I think I was just messing with the numbers?
Day start generation is an interesting idea. The catch is that it contradicts your later point of item claiming; town can better coordinate the night traps.
Yeah, I was worried about Scavenger generation; they didn't get any rares but they got plenty of uncommons. I could make them only get the extra item on odd days, but with the reduced percentages always.
I would be terrible at remembering to handle scaling percentages. But I had another idea; keep reading.
Is 3% artifact too much, or just better rare chances? Or maybe another 15% moved from common to uncommon? It is pretty weak in shorter games, because one dud and you're stuck if you can't find a wand or staff.
True public public pool... it'd turn into a bluffing game as to who wanted to grab what, on the case of people picking the same item. It'd also be much worse for me if I screwed it up. I don't that adds enough to justify keeping it.
On classes, and Mafiakills:
I was trying to think of a way to handle the Mafiakill. The bonus action's certainly a possibility; it's been done in other gametypes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=178609.0) to allow a mafia power role to act and kill. We could just allow this (and (especially) to kill-type SKs) as a possibility. I also considered a "Potion of murder" but with a better name that let you also perform a Mafiakill, and either give each mafioso one at game start or give the team 2-ish collectively. But is it really that hard on the town to give Mafia kills as a bonus action?
While I was considering that, I thought that perhaps many class abilities could be offloaded into starter potions (Rangers get a potion that blocks blocks/redirects for the night it's used, for example, but I think the warrior is fine as is.) That's odd in flavor, but mechanically better? The amount would have to be tweaked; if Rangers got one of those potions they'd be pretty terrible.
Another idea is to put one (or two slots, to give it a slight bias) slots in each rarity that are "CLASS SPECIFIC ITEM" and if you roll that slot, you get a [rarity] item that's specific to your class. For example, an Archeologist might have as uncommon a ring that further boosts their rarity levels, or a common potion that boosts their next item up one rarity level. Priests might get a rare scroll that grants another player a revive that lasts until it is used. Stuff like that.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 11, 2021, 10:18:14 am
One theme I'm noticing is that, the more complex the game, the easier it is for Town. Complexity gives Town more information, and more information makes Town's job easier (and Scum's job a lot harder). Just look at the ONUW games. They were solved extremely quickly.
So maybe do away with Scrolls/Rods/Staves. Or don't let them duplicate. Then rarity is easier to gauge. See if certain items are mostly junk for their rarity.
Potions are nice. You can use them with other items/abilities, so they're pretty awesome.
Maybe the MTG rating system of Common/Uncommon/Rare/Artifact is one category too many. What about Common/Rare/Artifact? It means Artifacts might actually appear (they're only supposed to look extremely rare, ideally one or more will actually surface each game). It also increases the divide between Common and Rare, so Scavenger would actually be equal to Antiquarian.
What about, for the item pool, either eliminating it, or making it a black market? All items off the dead can be "purchased". Mechanically, the players in sequence pick one item until they all have an item, the rest are deleted. Whoever picked last goes first next time, or something. All available items are publicly known, up to GM whether players purchases are private (pm) or public (in thread). While this does "give more info", it does it in a way that is even handed: Mafia can play the system, and just not use whatever they get.
Since nobody asked, I'm kinda thinking Merchant sucked, but I didn't get to play long enough to figure it out.
Post by: notquitethere on June 11, 2021, 10:29:22 am
Complexity doesn't necessarily make games pro-town, but superabundance of information does. Compare with other role-heavy games like Supernatural or BYORs that aren't particularly pro-town. A crucial difference here between Roguelike and BYORs is Roguelike is a semi-open setup. All the possibilities are known and can be puzzled out. That said, I like this! That puzzle element makes for a fun part of the game and it avoids the unfairness of mafia having a secret I Win power which is a danger in closed setups.
Post by: Jim Groovester on June 11, 2021, 10:46:49 am
Quote
potion of murder
In keeping with the random item theme of the game the scum team could have a unique scum only item pool to receive items from when they quest that would give them their nightly kill ability (and the flavor would be the dark force they are serving granting them items to complete their mission). Kill effects could vary to keep the town on their toes, but tending toward the more regular nightkill would be the sensible option.
- Scavengers are OP af. Way too many items, especially since the decrease in rarity is almost negligible.
I'd suggest that this means that the common item pool has too much value, such that being more likely to get two items from that pool is too much of an advantage.
Post by: webadict on June 11, 2021, 11:13:05 am
Also, yes, Commons are definitely strong.
Post by: notquitethere on June 11, 2021, 11:15:50 am
Post by: webadict on June 11, 2021, 11:20:50 am
I think Commons being strong is good. Most players only get at most two or three shots at using their items after all.In the context of balancing, this drastically boosts the power of the Town and also Scavengers. Scum do not benefit from strong commons, since they are in the minority.
Post by: notquitethere on June 11, 2021, 11:24:23 am
In the context of balancing, this drastically boosts the power of the Town and also Scavengers. Scum do not benefit from strong commons, since they are in the minority.Scavengers might be a little OP compared to some classes, but then... they don't get a starting item like most other classes, so they have to survive to N2 to get a benefit from their class. I think that's fine.
Giving mafia more of their own tricks would be fine though.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 11, 2021, 12:34:07 pm
Post by: webadict on June 11, 2021, 12:58:04 pm
What about my idea of eliminating the Uncommon category, so that the next tier is abundantly better?Band-aid fix.
The issue is likely bigger than that. Uncommons and Rares tend to be Common items with extra uses, and because of that, they tend to be better in terms of options to just have more items.
I would honestly want to make drastic item changes to make this a viable game mode, but not sure how appreciated that would be.
Post by: EuchreJack on June 11, 2021, 01:14:18 pm
And what about my idea of not having scrolls/staves/rods of the same ability?What about my idea of eliminating the Uncommon category, so that the next tier is abundantly better?Band-aid fix.
The issue is likely bigger than that. Uncommons and Rares tend to be Common items with extra uses, and because of that, they tend to be better in terms of options to just have more items.
I would honestly want to make drastic item changes to make this a viable game mode, but not sure how appreciated that would be.
Post by: webadict on June 11, 2021, 01:34:56 pm
I like it a bit, but I also like the flexibility of the system. I think if I did rework the items, I would rework the items so that Wands and Staves weren't upgraded items, but rather items of their own accord.And what about my idea of not having scrolls/staves/rods of the same ability?What about my idea of eliminating the Uncommon category, so that the next tier is abundantly better?Band-aid fix.
The issue is likely bigger than that. Uncommons and Rares tend to be Common items with extra uses, and because of that, they tend to be better in terms of options to just have more items.
I would honestly want to make drastic item changes to make this a viable game mode, but not sure how appreciated that would be.
Scrolls make sense, they don't change. Well, they change a bit, but not in the design phase.
Staves become modifier items, allowing you to tweak an item in how it resolves, amplifying your magic items. You may have a Staff of the Undergrove, that grants your Scrolls a 30% chance to entangle your target in Vines.
Wands, thus, become the multi-target item. They allow you to perform spells on more than one target or store stronger versions of spells (and not multiple uses of the same spell)
This allows for some tweaks to the item system to begin with, like allowing for more Rings/Amulets/etc.
I think in doing so, you can make stronger Artifacts that aren't win now buttons, but rather stand out as gameplay-modifying abilities, and thus make the drop rate a little higher.
Post by: Toaster on June 11, 2021, 04:13:33 pm
I don't hate the idea but I hate the work effort involved.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 11, 2021, 04:16:00 pm
So that's a success at least.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 12, 2021, 06:05:47 pm
Legitimately, no goddamn clue how to do town.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 12, 2021, 06:06:57 pm
@Bluarian:
How many times have you been town? Twice? This is getting ridiculous.
Once.
And I got resurrected to a goddamn SK that game.
I've the curse of being a bloody SK - every game so far I have been scum at least some of the time.
Post by: ToonyMan on June 12, 2021, 06:12:35 pm
Nah you were town in Dream of Elan. So you've been town fully once and started the game as town once.@Bluarian:Once.
How many times have you been town? Twice? This is getting ridiculous.
And I got resurrected to a goddamn SK that game.
I've the curse of being a bloody SK - every game so far I have been scum at least some of the time.
So it's like 1.5 times you've been town.
Post by: BluarianKnight on June 12, 2021, 06:48:47 pm
Oh right - forgot about DoE.Nah you were town in Dream of Elan. So you've been town fully once and started the game as town once.@Bluarian:Once.
How many times have you been town? Twice? This is getting ridiculous.
And I got resurrected to a goddamn SK that game.
I've the curse of being a bloody SK - every game so far I have been scum at least some of the time.
So it's like 1.5 times you've been town.