Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 14, 2015, 06:42:58 am
...granted, no pictures or concrete information yet, but the hype train is now rocketing out of the station. Aaaah.
Post by: Tronak on January 14, 2015, 06:54:23 am
Post by: SupremeSandwich on January 14, 2015, 07:07:17 am
Looking forward to it though
Post by: Shadowgandor on January 14, 2015, 07:17:53 am
Post by: Mech#4 on January 14, 2015, 07:36:18 am
However, as has been said; out of all the potential companies to work on a Warhammer Fantasy game, Creative Assembly are certainly the best choice. I look forward to blasting Orcs apart with hellblasters and using bright wizards to burn hordes of Skaven, as well as using hordes of Skaven. As well as the tactical aspects featured in other Total War games.
I did see an interesting comment of someone wondering whether it will incorporate possible changes to the Warhammer Fantasy universe that are rumoured to be coming. Things about the world being split into bubbles and so on but I haven't looked into the tabletop lore for about 4 years now.
As a very small nitpick; Warhammer: Total War sounds better to my ear. Total War: Warhammer is a little awkward with the repetition.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on January 14, 2015, 07:41:45 am
Post by: Majestic7 on January 14, 2015, 07:46:36 am
Post by: puke on January 14, 2015, 08:06:02 am
Unless it is limited to a small area, and not all of the old world?
For example, no one wants to conquer the chaos wastes, nor could you send an army there to pacify it. They'd just mutate, or worse. So will chaos not hold ground? Not have home cities? Not be a faction?
And Skaven... will the underdark or whatever its called be a seperate map layer? Will they have diplomatic options?
This will be interesting to watch. They have their work cut oug for them.
Post by: Majestic7 on January 14, 2015, 08:16:34 am
edit: Going by existing mechanics, orks would be quite easy - tribes are separate till big bosh smashes enough skulls, then you get Waaaagh! which is pretty much a tribal confederation. It breaks up after the first major defeat or when the big boss dies.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 14, 2015, 08:22:49 am
I think the best thing about a Warhammer game being made by a company is that it can be designed with regards to the setting and factions rather than having to work within limitations of the engine like many mods that have come out are.
I would like to see an underground map split. Something like in HoMMIII would make defence of dwarven holds interesting with above ground and underground to consider.
Post by: puke on January 14, 2015, 09:02:22 am
Going by existing mechanics, orks would be quite easy - tribes are separate till big bosh smashes enough skulls, then you get Waaaagh! which is pretty much a tribal confederation. It breaks up after the first major defeat or when the big boss dies.
I'm not up on all the WFB lore, but used to play a fair bit of WFRP back in the older editions. So I'm not totally up on all the lore, but this seems to be the thing. Orks dont hold ground either. You don't invade their provinces and start constructing cannon foundries with local labor. You dont build a brothel to recruit rakes once you own orktown, or whatever.
Ork tribes and beastmen exist in the gaps. in the woods just away from the roads, outside of the flickering light of civilization. The empire is strong, but it holds on tenuously and the thin connections between cities are only guarded by the roadwardens. Every town -- indeed, every FARM -- is a fortress. Just outside the walls, just off the road, just past the banks of every waterway... there lurk the orks and goblins and beastmen.
So I get it. I get how you'd play the empire with random events... or even how you't play Kieslev or Brittania or a Border Prince or even the Dwarfs and Undeads... but I don't really see how you'd make the Gobbos or Orks or Chaos or Skaven to be playable factions.
I can imagine some ways, but it would be a pretty big departure from the standard mechanics of the Total War franchise.
Which is why I am so curious to see what they do.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on January 14, 2015, 10:57:15 am
Or maybe we just get orcburgs and build highways all over orcland while we recruit shock troopas from the capital. Remains to be seen I guess.
Post by: Sergarr on January 14, 2015, 11:05:01 am
Post by: timferius on January 14, 2015, 12:21:55 pm
Also, if my warp-lightning cannons DON'T spin around randomly sometimes and decimate my lines, I'll be highly disappointing. (misfires are WHY I played Skaven).
Post by: Sirus on January 14, 2015, 12:34:26 pm
Post by: timferius on January 14, 2015, 12:54:38 pm
Ah darn, was hoping for screenshots and video and stuff. Oh well, PTW.Rumour is full announcement later this month.
Post by: Bastus on January 14, 2015, 01:43:24 pm
The biggest problem will probably be some kind of balance and how they are going to handle the more nomadic races, as I have to admit it would suck if you would't be able to form an empire wuth them cause the game says you can't.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 14, 2015, 01:56:52 pm
I don't play the tabletop anymore, just too prohibitively expensive and GW are not helping. But this excites me so much. However, if I can't play Skaven, and I can't name/customize my heroes/lords, there will be hell to pay. That is all.
Also, if my warp-lightning cannons DON'T spin around randomly sometimes and decimate my lines, I'll be highly disappointing. (misfires are WHY I played Skaven).
Just imagine the advisor comments for the Skaven (and Chaos, and Orcs, and...)! Shameful displays and lily-livered cowards ain't got nothing on rat-men screaming about exploding warpstone.
Post by: Sirus on January 14, 2015, 01:58:18 pm
I can't wait to hear pre-battle speeches.I don't play the tabletop anymore, just too prohibitively expensive and GW are not helping. But this excites me so much. However, if I can't play Skaven, and I can't name/customize my heroes/lords, there will be hell to pay. That is all.
Also, if my warp-lightning cannons DON'T spin around randomly sometimes and decimate my lines, I'll be highly disappointing. (misfires are WHY I played Skaven).
Just imagine the advisor comments for the Skaven (and Chaos, and Orcs, and...)! Shameful displays and lily-livered cowards ain't got nothing on rat-men screaming about exploding warpstone.
Post by: pisskop on January 14, 2015, 01:59:15 pm
Post by: Flying Carcass on January 14, 2015, 02:27:49 pm
Post by: ~Neri on January 14, 2015, 02:39:56 pm
Post by: puke on January 14, 2015, 03:06:21 pm
Aren't Skaven cities something that is possbile by the WH lore?
Oh, yeah, totally. They are just underneath all the cities of Man.
They have cities and travel networks under the entire world, just like Drow or something like that. Humans cant really interact with it, there is not really any such thing as an "invasion".
I'm not sure what excuses they come up with to field skaven armies in the wargame, but there isn't a whole lot of reason for them to wage wars for territory in the above world. They are interested in taking slaves, stealing food, and seeking out warpstone. Aside from that, I think they could kind of not give a f--- about the surface world.
You could totally have a skaven-vs-skaven campaign. But if the focus of the game is in the overworld, do you really think they'd draw a second world map for this? And have it be largely irrelevant to the other factions? Maybe it would be an expansion?
Post by: Girlinhat on January 14, 2015, 03:12:42 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2015, 03:22:58 pm
I was excited, then I realized this isn't 40K. Shame...Same, echoing my search for a 40k mod.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 14, 2015, 03:53:43 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2015, 04:04:19 pm
Post by: nenjin on January 14, 2015, 04:11:59 pm
That said, g'damn GWS. Carpet bombing their licensing lately. This is like...the 7th GWS title in as many months.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on January 14, 2015, 04:32:12 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2015, 04:37:15 pm
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on January 14, 2015, 04:44:32 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 14, 2015, 04:49:42 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on January 14, 2015, 04:57:21 pm
Ten years ago I still had unshakeable confidence in Total War brand. Less so these days. But maybe this change of setting is what TW needs. I remain hopeful.
10 years ago? Wow. What about Empire, napoleon, and Shogun 2? Those games were awesome!
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 14, 2015, 06:00:07 pm
Post by: puke on January 15, 2015, 09:15:21 am
This was a minor line in an art book. Maybe it is a meaningful and intentional leak, maybe some artist is just talking about the projects he did some concept art for.
Maybe CA cranked out a few art assets when they bid for a license to the property, but decided not to run with it.
Maybe CA got a license to the property, did a little work, but still might not develop a full game.
Maybe (conspiracy nut alert) this is an intentional leak to "test the waters" and see how much hype comes out of it, afterwards they will decide if they want to continue developing.
Or, maybe, it is coming out in two months and everyone should pee themselves.
Personally, I always make a point of peeing myself JUST IN CASE some situation might arise wherein peeing would be merited. Preemptive peeing, if you will.
Post by: aristabulus on January 15, 2015, 11:41:43 am
Soooo.... I've finally actually RTFArticle, and not sure what to think about it.
This was a minor line in an art book. ...
Yeah, that was my impression of the reporting also... yet another case of Teh Gaemz Jurnaliztz taking a minor tidbit and blowing it out of proportion, for the sake of filling a slow news day.
That said, Sega got their hands on Relic not that long ago... who already had an existing relationship with GW on licensing. GW also seems to be more open minded to licensing in general recently. I think it is very plausible that Sega could've gotten Relic's access extended to Creative Assembly also. Meetings and pitches probably still had to be done, sure, but when you've got the inside track to the licensing liaison, the whole process is a lot easier.
Post by: Sergarr on January 15, 2015, 12:54:28 pm
high-rate-of-fire ranged weaponshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u03zds8JMHQ
uh
Post by: puke on January 15, 2015, 01:58:35 pm
high-rate-of-fire ranged weaponshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u03zds8JMHQ
uh
hehe, yeah. I can imagine most of the game components being handled by the core mechanics available in Empire TW. Pike formations, cavalry, guns, canons.
Even the multiple maps I was prattling about -- you could take the different theater maps and make one an overworld and one an underworld. Instead of connecting them at the map edges, you'd connect them at cities.
I think everything can be done, it is just such a massive departure in terms of strategic gameplay. Or at least, it could be. Which could be good.
And I could be equivocating.
Post by: Remuthra on January 15, 2015, 04:25:59 pm
Figures they're in the games I either haven't bothered or don't want to play. I continue to cite ogres, battlewheels, and the like.high-rate-of-fire ranged weaponshttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u03zds8JMHQ
uh
hehe, yeah. I can imagine most of the game components being handled by the core mechanics available in Empire TW. Pike formations, cavalry, guns, canons.
Even the multiple maps I was prattling about -- you could take the different theater maps and make one an overworld and one an underworld. Instead of connecting them at the map edges, you'd connect them at cities.
I think everything can be done, it is just such a massive departure in terms of strategic gameplay. Or at least, it could be. Which could be good.
And I could be equivocating.
Post by: Vendayn on January 15, 2015, 05:20:12 pm
With that said, I too wish it was 40k...but this is still really cool. They probably wanted a more fantasy theme (its requested a lot) and not so much a sci-fi one (which doesn't get requested nearly as much).
I hope they do a good job, it could either be the best total war...or the worst (but I actually doubt it this time).
Post by: Teneb on January 15, 2015, 05:30:59 pm
The TWcenter forums for Total War is full of people raging. If you want a good laugh, go through all the ragers. Haven't stepped into the official forums yet, I don't feel like laughing that much as they are probably even more funny. :PCould we, perhaps, get a summary of the main cause of rage?
Post by: Vendayn on January 15, 2015, 05:36:49 pm
I'll sum it up with what I've read.The TWcenter forums for Total War is full of people raging. If you want a good laugh, go through all the ragers. Haven't stepped into the official forums yet, I don't feel like laughing that much as they are probably even more funny. :PCould we, perhaps, get a summary of the main cause of rage?
warhammer tabletop are toys for kids who like to play paint the "dolls".
only nerds like warhammer
Total war has always been based on history! it is a series for mature gamers and now its going to be aiming for kids
I hate warhammer. This series is really going down hill.
That pretty much sums up all the ragers. Though most posts are being deleted now I noticed.
Post by: nenjin on January 15, 2015, 05:38:56 pm
Post by: Remuthra on January 15, 2015, 05:39:07 pm
Post by: Ghazkull on January 15, 2015, 06:27:32 pm
Aren't Skaven cities something that is possbile by the WH lore?
Oh, yeah, totally. They are just underneath all the cities of Man.
They have cities and travel networks under the entire world, just like Drow or something like that. Humans cant really interact with it, there is not really any such thing as an "invasion".
I'm not sure what excuses they come up with to field skaven armies in the wargame, but there isn't a whole lot of reason for them to wage wars for territory in the above world. They are interested in taking slaves, stealing food, and seeking out warpstone. Aside from that, I think they could kind of not give a f--- about the surface world.
You could totally have a skaven-vs-skaven campaign. But if the focus of the game is in the overworld, do you really think they'd draw a second world map for this? And have it be largely irrelevant to the other factions? Maybe it would be an expansion?
Well you forget some things. Lorewise Skaven are in a constant War with Night Goblins and the Dwarves and since all three are basically below ground nations (remember the dwarves are mostly interested in their Lost Mountainhomes) it would indeed make sense to do a Second Layer to the World Map which runs underground. Also there is the Chaos Dwarves which i forgot.
But yeah lets hope they put some nice voice actors to it, get Necromancy to work correctly, add a second underworld layer for the Subterranean nations and we'll be set. And they could actually do interesting stories for the campaigns this time around.
Post by: puke on January 16, 2015, 03:26:37 am
Figures they're in the games I either haven't bothered or don't want to play. I continue to cite ogres, battlewheels, and the like.
Oh, thats too bad. I really liked Empire, you should check it out. The trade/economic/colonial aspects are right up my alley. It's no Imperialism but it is still pretty good -- and the puckle guns, rocket barrages, and mortars with flaming carcass shot are just icing on the cake. Rocket barrages are fairly ineffective, but they do tend to make people loose their bowels a little.
Seriously: there's nothing better than having a well disciplined force facing a vastly numerically superior foe, putting them into a defensive square in a last act of desperation, and then watching the enemy break against the square like waves against an unyielding cliff.
Also: Heavy First-Rate ship-of-the-line? about 4K each. Steamship? ~1800 a piece. Plowing them through a fleet of lesser vessels while they explode or burn to the waterline? Priceless.
You can even make some (very very loose) approximation of proper naval tactics -- my favorite is Nelson's strategy at Trafalgar, which I'll have you know is TOTALLY NONVIABLE in this little game: http://www.eic-game.com/?page=battle_of_trafalgar so E:TW wins some points from me on that front....
Empire has a great mix of components that come together spectacularly, and I think I'm going to play it some more tomorrow now that I've been reminded.
To you point though, things like Ogres and Steam Tanks and Battle Wheels... these are really just models. There are already elephants and siege towers, people have already made fantasy mods, and at least one existing Warhammer mod that was linked a page or so back. So this stuff has been done in concept.
I think the trick will be somehow capturing the asymmetric nature of how the conflicts would naturally play out. The wargame fluff is written in such a was as to always afford everyone a chance to play their army against anyone else... and this is not conducive to a grand strategy game that needs to have things like borders and resources and diplomacy and motivations for conflict.
I mean, why would undead hordes invade? They sure don't want your fertile crop lands, why would the Tomb Lords not just hang out and continue to slowly grow their undead armies and limitless labor force with whatever small living population they still have? They have a guaranteed stream of steady growth without increasing overhead, and basically no one should be motivated to come take their shitty arid land. They'd probably make the best neighbors and trade partners in the world!
Should be the same with necromancer towers in DF. Why are they invading? Why dont they provide valuable services to neighboring kingdoms (like road construction, or removing stones from fields) in exchange for a steady supply of bodies? They should be the BEST NEIGHBORS EVAR.
Wow, that was a long tangent. Don't know what happened there.
Well you forget some things. Lorewise Skaven are in a constant War with Night Goblins and the Dwarves and since all three are basically below ground nations (remember the dwarves are mostly interested in their Lost Mountainhomes) it would indeed make sense to do a Second Layer to the World Map which runs underground. Also there is the Chaos Dwarves which i forgot.
ooo. I did forget about that. That could actually be really interesting if they implement it well.
Post by: Remuthra on January 16, 2015, 06:31:12 am
I actually have Empire, but I've yet to get it working without extreme graphical corruption. I'll fix and play it some day.Figures they're in the games I either haven't bothered or don't want to play. I continue to cite ogres, battlewheels, and the like.Oh, thats too bad. I really liked Empire, you should check it out. The trade/economic/colonial aspects are right up my alley. It's no Imperialism but it is still pretty good -- and the puckle guns, rocket barrages, and mortars with flaming carcass shot are just icing on the cake. Rocket barrages are fairly ineffective, but they do tend to make people loose their bowels a little.
Post by: Stuebi on January 16, 2015, 06:58:28 am
I'll sum it up with what I've read.The TWcenter forums for Total War is full of people raging. If you want a good laugh, go through all the ragers. Haven't stepped into the official forums yet, I don't feel like laughing that much as they are probably even more funny. :PCould we, perhaps, get a summary of the main cause of rage?
warhammer tabletop are toys for kids who like to play paint the "dolls".
only nerds like warhammer
Total war has always been based on history! it is a series for mature gamers and now its going to be aiming for kids
I hate warhammer. This series is really going down hill.
That pretty much sums up all the ragers. Though most posts are being deleted now I noticed.
The TW-Forums are one of the worst places for actual discussion. A thing I allways found quite ironic, considering what Total War games are. I expected a mature userbase, with plenty of interesting topics. But it's basically just people yelling at each other and complaining for the sake of complaining.
Shogun 2 was my favorite Total War to this day. Rome 2 had a horrible launch, but became pretty good after a lot of patches. So basically I hope they dont botch the release this time, but I'm convinced the game will be good after a few months either way.
About the mechanics, and race-wise. Orks and Chaos have holdings too. Albeit mostly villages, unless they conquer a fortress somewhere. Afaik there are quite a few dwarven Mountainhomes currently inhabited by Greenskin-Tribes. Skarsnik holds the biggest one, me thinks. I personally care more about Unit Types, Heroes and all that stuff. After all, simply having "General" doesnt really work in Warhammer. And I will be greatly dissapointed if you can only play human factions. That would be an instant "No buy" for me.
Post by: Delta Foxtrot on January 16, 2015, 07:36:27 am
It might end up ok, it might not. It's way too early to tell.
Post by: GreatJustice on January 16, 2015, 08:43:02 am
Post by: Mech#4 on January 16, 2015, 08:44:04 am
The unit upgrades in Rome II would be good to see also. In "Shadow of the Horned Rat" your units could gain banners and items to improve their statistics encouraging you to keep units alive which also allows stories to develop around their exploits.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 16, 2015, 09:49:54 am
For SP, Rome 2 consistent, trait-gaining legions were a good idea, but I thought not really developed enough in-game. Little things, like the game remembering their great victories and defeats (in a cooler way than just listing them), their actions and not just player choice giving them different traits, etc., would be nice.
Post by: ~Neri on January 16, 2015, 01:19:57 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 22, 2015, 10:42:20 am
There is now a trailer for the game out. Factions shown include Orcs, Empire, Dwarves, Vampire Counts and Chaos (Tzeentch). (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/04/22/total-war-warhammer-trailer/)
No gameplay but with the trailer there will probably be more things released soon about it. Get that marketing machine running and all that.
Also, the factions have been given leader names. Orcs: Grimgor Ironhide, Empire: Karl Franz, Dwarves: Thorgrim Grudgebearer, Vampire Counts: Mannfred von Carstein.
This is interesting because it rather firmly puts the game either before or in a separate timeline to the recent developments of "The End Times" due to... well...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There was also mentioned that there would be “two further standalone instalments and additional content packs” so the other factions will probably be added at a later date. My guess would be instalments based on "The End Times" and the "Storm of Chaos" if they're time period ones.
Addition: Might I say that the chosen name of "Total War: Warhammer", while in line with the change to the titles of the previous games (putting Total War first), grates on my writing senses as it repeats the word "War". "Warhammer: Total War" would sound much better to me and I'm sure people are going to shorten the title to "Total Warhammer" as well. Eh, picky picky.
Post by: gimli on April 22, 2015, 10:49:07 am
Post by: umiman on April 22, 2015, 11:57:30 am
I can't say I like the idea of a trilogy as that means it'll be... "story driven". Ugh. Don't force my campaigns in Total War please.
But whatever, we'll see. I like Warhammer more than nomadic steppe riders, but I don't like it that much to care all that much.
Post by: Teneb on April 22, 2015, 12:08:22 pm
I can't say I like the idea of a trilogy as that means it'll be... "story driven". Ugh. Don't force my campaigns in Total War please.I'm guessing it'll be like Shogun 2 was, which sounds like it'll be indeed story driven.
Post by: Nick K on April 22, 2015, 12:29:49 pm
I didn't like the Rise of the Samurai much, but having played all of them since Rome 1, FOTS is my favourite TW game. Those sort of huge expansions that feel like a new game are what I consider the good sort of DLC.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 22, 2015, 12:31:46 pm
Post by: Naryar on April 22, 2015, 01:06:48 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 22, 2015, 01:24:17 pm
Post by: Flying Carcass on April 22, 2015, 01:25:53 pm
Post by: Zangi on April 22, 2015, 01:59:53 pm
... How is Rome 2 now?
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 22, 2015, 02:24:57 pm
Obviously, it means I should wait till they release the next total war game, cause they'll probably put all the dlc together in one package by then. Plus modding community would have its time to work at it.
... How is Rome 2 now?
Depends on who you ask. I find it very good and solid, espec. after Emperor Edition. And then there are people who think it's the worst thing since Vesuvius erupted. I'll note I never encountered many bugs, even at launch, so my experience has been 'good enough->better and better'. It's not the best TW, but it's not a smoking ruin either.
Post by: nenjin on April 22, 2015, 02:36:48 pm
Post by: Vendayn on April 22, 2015, 03:24:57 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on April 22, 2015, 03:29:44 pm
Will have as many or more DLC than Rome 2/Attila. Also factions aren't going to be developed with unique units, until they release DLC post release. Better to wait for an all in one pack instead of buying each DLC they throw up.
I find it digusting now that company sells game and faction seperatly, i mean... how long before they sell the jumping ability as dlc in a platforming game? Come on now...
Speaking of wich makes me think of this game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSzKqgExLYE
Its a bit satyre i think the good word would be? But hell we are not that far....
Post by: sambojin on April 22, 2015, 06:23:02 pm
Plus, it'll have Orcs and Goblins in it from the start, which means I won't necessarily need any DLC unless it's truly worth it to be able to enjoy the game from the start.
It'll be interesting to see what they do with magic. Will it be battle only, or will there be magic usable on the strategic map, ala MoM as well? Toned down from MoM levels of course, since it's not a game completely based on magical shennanigans, but some strategic level spells will hopefully be available for all the magic type. I'm really hoping so anyway, as it was something lacking in WHFB. It always suprised me that there wasn't a pre-or-during setup magic phase or something on the tabletop version. Hopefully with an actual strategic layer to the game in TW:WH (even the acronym is weird to type), magic can be shown in ways that it hasn't really been shown to function in the game mechanics before. In lore and stories, yes, but never really in a game AFAIK.
Oh, and I can't wait for the sound effects of the 'shroomed up little goblin Doom Divers as they go sailing all over the place. Wheeeeeeee........ SPLAT!
Post by: Mech#4 on April 23, 2015, 12:45:58 am
(I did notice a funny thing that when the empire knights are charging, they all have their lances up rather than bracing.)
Personally the wizard guy reminds me a bit of Tchar'zanek from Warhammer online. I'll admit it's mostly because he's blue but the staff slam on the ground is similar to the intro movie to Warhammer Online. Could also be it might've been the same company making the video and they like using such acts.
This is assuming that the rights for the characters created in Warhammer Online went to Games Workshop when Mythic closed down.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 23, 2015, 01:12:16 am
Post by: Stuebi on April 23, 2015, 01:22:54 am
BTW, how do you guys think the factions will work? Personally, I'm gonna guess they will go with something similiar like ROME 2. So you have different Factions with subgroups. The question now is how will they seperate them?
I'm curious if we're gonna have "Greenskins" as a whole, or if they're gonna split up Goblins and Orcs. Similiarly, I wonder if they will split Chaos by the respective god. There are some seriously big possiblities for awesome Coop-Campaigns here.
Also, anyone remember Mark of Chaos for PC?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Majestic7 on April 23, 2015, 01:42:09 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 23, 2015, 01:56:33 am
There did seem to be a clear divide between the orc and goblin armies.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 23, 2015, 02:04:10 am
Post by: Retropunch on April 23, 2015, 02:13:36 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 23, 2015, 02:32:03 am
I really, really hope that they'll probably include all the ones mentioned in the trailer (men, dwarves, orcs, undead, chaos) - it'll seem a bit disingenuous if they don't. I'd imagine skaven and elves will be the DLC packs, as I doubt any other races are popular enough to warrant being DLC.
They are. Articles are mentioning that the developers confirmed Orcs and Goblins, Empire, Vampire Counts, Dwarves as being in the game. They haven't specifically mentioned Chaos but that a power in the north is gathering.
From Rock Paper Shotgun: "Initial details from publisher SEGA confirm the game will include the Empire (under Karl Franz), the Greenskins (under Grimgor Ironhide), the Dwarfs (under High King Thorgrim) and the Vampire Counts (under Mannfred von Carstien). Chaos, whether Tzeentch or not, isn’t mentioned by name, but it does say here that “a greater threat still whispers in the winds from the north. The fabric of reality itself begins to rend and buckle” so yeah, Chaos is in there too."
What are the other races? Bretonnia, Skaven, High Elves, Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Ogre Kingdoms, Lizardmen, Tomb Kings, Beastmen, possibly Khorne, Nurgle and Slaneesh.
The only unlikely factions I would think would be Chaos Dwarves, Kislev (unless they're added as part of the Empire), Border Princes and really distant ones like Nippon and Cathay. Though I think it all depends upon the scope of the campaign map. Will it be the Empire area (which all the factions confirmed are/can be located in) or will it extend further west and south?
Post by: Neonivek on April 23, 2015, 04:05:39 am
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2015, 04:33:45 am
Anyway, I could definitely see them releasing the three Elven races as a DLC. Likely make them all part of the same faction tree, like they've done with DLCs for Rome 2 and Attila.
Post by: Neonivek on April 23, 2015, 04:38:14 am
How could I have forgotten to ptw this thread last time I saw it? I almost missed all these news!
Anyway, I could definitely see them releasing the three Elven races as a DLC. Likely make them all part of the same faction tree, like they've done with DLCs for Rome 2 and Attila.
Ohh yeah I forgot about that silliness.
Just have them all be the exact same race... except with 1 or 2 additions or changes.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 23, 2015, 04:49:00 am
How could I have forgotten to ptw this thread last time I saw it? I almost missed all these news!
Anyway, I could definitely see them releasing the three Elven races as a DLC. Likely make them all part of the same faction tree, like they've done with DLCs for Rome 2 and Attila.
Ohh yeah I forgot about that silliness.
Just have them all be the exact same race... except with 1 or 2 additions or changes.
High Elves and Dark Elves are pretty similar with the base troops. Remembering, they both have spearmen, archers for HE/Repeater Xbows for DE and greatswords with the Swordmasters of Hoeth/Executioners. Cold Ones/Silver Helms. The more monsterous units is where things get very different with HEs having dragons and phoenixes while DEs have warhydras and harpies.
Wood Elves are rather different with base troops that are archers supported by melee dryads and war dancers. Though, my knowledge is about 8 years out of touch so more units may have been added to fill gaps. Looking I can see there's more cavalry for Wood Elves along with greatswords and spearmen now.
Post by: Stuebi on April 23, 2015, 05:22:23 am
Pardon me for Fanboying a bit, but I'm practically sitting on nails. I'm SO curious how the different races will play. Will we get Horde mechanics for Greenskins and Chaos? How will magic work? And by god, I hope they bring pre-battle speeches into this.
Waaaghboss: "Strategery sez, biggah is bettah. And We'z the biggest there is!"
Post by: Nick K on April 23, 2015, 06:49:27 am
Post by: scriver on April 23, 2015, 07:50:25 am
Post by: Kruniac on April 23, 2015, 09:42:55 pm
For one, we know that's a thing now adays. That's fine.
For another, and most importantly, we can always pirate the shit out of the game. I absolutely love Warhammer, and I'm sure this game is going to scratch my Warhammer itch. However, I'll be torrenting this. I'll be torrenting every DLC they try to suck out of me.
Unless it's some obscure game that no one bothers to throw on TPB, there is no reason to cry about DLC packs and the like. You can get any major title for free given ~5 hours of free time. Welcome to the internet.
Post by: Retropunch on April 24, 2015, 01:59:55 am
There is literally zero reason for anyone to be complaining about "content packs" or DLC whoring from CA.
For one, we know that's a thing now adays. That's fine.
For another, and most importantly, we can always pirate the shit out of the game. I absolutely love Warhammer, and I'm sure this game is going to scratch my Warhammer itch. However, I'll be torrenting this. I'll be torrenting every DLC they try to suck out of me.
Unless it's some obscure game that no one bothers to throw on TPB, there is no reason to cry about DLC packs and the like. You can get any major title for free given ~5 hours of free time. Welcome to the internet.
I'd prefer it to be a good game and be able to support it.
Post by: gimli on April 24, 2015, 07:34:14 am
I never liked the DLC model, but who does? It's the perfect way to leech money from the customers [Hey, Paradox Interactive! ;)], even tho I don't plan to buy DLCs for a TW game anyway, but I suppose the hardcore TW playerbase will. I might be interested in the expansion packs IF the vanilla game will be good enough.
PS.
I always blamed platforms like Steam for the [paid] DLC model.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 24, 2015, 08:07:50 am
dlc is the natural progression after expansion packs. I just hate the price/content ratio these days
Post by: Teneb on April 24, 2015, 08:13:32 am
Post by: Virtz on April 24, 2015, 08:27:45 am
Games are made on budgets. You only have so much cash to do something. Making a game is neither easy nor cheap. If there was no dlc, we'd be locked to content made prior to release. Dlcs allow developers to keep making content while also paying the bills. Day1 dlc is something else though.Or they could just do expansion packs like decent developer.
Basically more Dawn of War: Dark Crusade, less Elite Units of the East, please.
Post by: scriver on April 24, 2015, 08:33:46 am
4 playable races...lol! :D
If Rome2 and Attila is anything to go by, there'll be several subfactions per faction.
Post by: gimli on April 24, 2015, 10:21:24 am
blame the internet...not steam
dlc is the natural progression after expansion packs. I just hate the price/content ratio these days
It's not that simple. Platforms like Steam are promoting the DLC model. Selling DLCs is a decent source of income for Valve afterall, but it's more than that. Many developers are releasing half-assed products with shallow gameplay as v1.0 because of the the long-term DLC strategy. It' a business standard now. It's all about money, and on platforms like Steam, it's easy to release DLCs. [More on this a bit later.] Sure, you are not forced to buy DLCs, or hell, you are not even forced to buy games either.
However, we all know that if someone is a fan of game X, he/she will buy DLCs for game X in most of the cases, even if it's only a portrait pack. If a given DLC adds a bit more content -like a race for a strategy game- it's an instabuy for a real fan, especially if the vanilla game lacks content...but again!...
It's all about money, but let's think a bit. I read an interesting article a couple of years ago: BioWare to beat piracy with DLC (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bioware-to-beat-piracy-with-dlc).
""We're doing a lot of post-release downloadable content on all of our PC titles going forward. We think it's a good thing to encourage players to make them want to buy a PC title," Muzyka told MTV Multiplayer.
"That's ultimately the best, most successful path to prevent piracy."
I am not sure that mr Muzyka was honest in this interview. We all know that DLCs are pirated. We all know that DLCs were pirated from the beginning, regardless of the DRM platform [Steam, Origin etc]. The amount of income earned from selling DLCs [@ Steam for example] is a good compensation for the loss of money because of pirating. So, what is the truth? The truth is, that those people who buy DLCs are compensating the developers & publishers for their losses. It's a well thought model from the developer's perspective, but an annoying one from the customer's perspective. "No f*cks given" says the pirate.
Post by: Retropunch on April 24, 2015, 11:54:03 am
However, I think a lot more developers are seeing that it's got on people's nerves. Indie/smaller developers are always saying 'buy it because there won't be any DLC!!!' and bigger developers are apologizing and making excuses for it (and seem to have learnt their lesson on Day1 DLC). so I'm hoping that eventually we'll get back to a bit of an equilibrium.
Post by: scriver on April 24, 2015, 12:54:52 pm
edit: wrong thread
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 24, 2015, 12:56:06 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 24, 2015, 08:55:10 pm
Oh, and Beastmen. Hundreds and gazillions of Beastmen. Where Orcs and Goblins aren't, there's reasons.
Post by: ScriptWolf on April 24, 2015, 09:46:30 pm
I'm actually looking forward for a Chaos DLC for this. Yep, the hordes from the north will always be there. But the Chaos Warbands, that seemingly emerge from nowhere, blessed by the Gods, in the heart of any kingdom or Empire? I hope they happen too.
Oh, and Beastmen. Hundreds and gazillions of Beastmen. Where Orcs and Goblins aren't, there's reasons.
How can you be looking forward to paying more for something which should have been included anyway ? Chaos forces are such a massive part of warhammer both fantasy and 40k to not let players play that faction base game is very bad, why even make it at all.
To be honest with the mess and money grab that was rome 2 i have no expectations for this, if it's only being released with four factions and they expect you to pay more for what should have been in the game im going to stick with the medieval 2 mod.
Post by: ~Neri on April 24, 2015, 11:11:26 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 24, 2015, 11:14:43 pm
Be nice if they brought Nagash back. Technically they could, although lorewise, nobody would have a flipping clue how, or a reason to. Cause he/it was batshit insane.
They did bring Nagash back in the End Times. He's got a really big, pretty cool looking model as well. (http://belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/BD30BB95-1E5C-442C-8AC9-65A0FD9E7991_zpstably3kt3.jpg) Though this game seems to be set before the End Times, during the Storm of Chaos, or in a separate timeline.
Post by: ~Neri on April 24, 2015, 11:23:46 pm
Post by: Rose on April 25, 2015, 12:03:14 am
Post by: Zrk2 on April 25, 2015, 12:38:18 am
I was excited till I saw that this was not 40k :(
Tanks and things would be significantly different to implement, so this may be a good first step in that direction.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 25, 2015, 12:52:18 am
Nagash went more or less for pure functionality, why the crap does he have all that terrible armor and easily gripped jutting spikes in that model?
While I can agree with the view that it is rather over the top, I have to say that it is better than the old model. At least the face is better. (http://www.coolminiornot.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=21338&stc=1&d=1372675859)
Old Nagash model was about half the size of a skeleton in size again. The new model is quite a bit bigger. (http://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207023_Nagash02.jpg)
Post by: Neonivek on April 25, 2015, 12:54:18 am
Think of it like Updating. Companies KNOW they don't have to release games in working condition or even functional because they can always patch it later, and if no one buys it then that means they don't have to spend money patching.
With DLC they KNOW they don't have to try as hard to squeeze in that extra dollar value because the DLC is going to do it. And when they do, do DLC? They know there is going to be more DLC so they don't really have to try on that DLC either. As well since the base game is lacking that means they can do EVEN LESS because they just have to add onto a game with half the effort.
Giving the games and their DLC a real bland factor. The game feels like it lacks that extra oomph because it knew it had DLC, and the DLC knowing they didn't have to try because the game wasn't going to try. Plus the DLC is just "patching" the game not "expanding".
Which is kind of the thing... When DLC is planned from the getgo it feels more like a "patch" then it does extra content.
Sure sometimes you get the makers of Mortal Kombat who just cram as much as possible into the base game and then cram even more through DLC... but they are WAAAY the exception.
Often you just get Paradox Entertainment with their constant milking DLC.
Post by: Retropunch on April 25, 2015, 01:53:01 am
Post by: Neonivek on April 25, 2015, 02:00:13 am
I think you've hit the nail on the head Neonivek. Really, what's annoying is that DLC these days may as well be Day1 DLC, it's just spread out over a few months.
A lot of the time they actually are. They just spread it across a few months to give the illusion that they worked on it.
Borderlands Presequel for example already finished all but its final DLC day 1. I mean you COULD justify it in that they wanted to give you something to look forward to before the actual DLC was released.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 25, 2015, 02:44:21 am
Besides all that, I feel like comparing the cost of multiple DLC to an expansion, like "Lord of Destruction".
I think Lord of Destruction was around $60 - $70AUD back when I bought it around 1998 (Apparently about $98 AUD now (http://fxtop.com/en/inflation-calculator.php?A=60&C1=AUD&INDICE=AUCPI1990&DD1=31&MM1=01&YYYY1=1998&DD2=25&MM2=04&YYYY2=2015&btnOK=Compute+actual+value)). It included 2 new characters and a new chapter with 5-6 new locations, items, mechanics and cinematics. (I cannot find the exact price for LOD as it was on release in Australia. My box doesn't have the price sticker anymore)
Going by the prices for DLC on Rome 2 at the moment; "Wrath of Sparta" campaign is $14.99 USD ($19.16 AUD). Totalling up "Caesar in Gaul", "Hannibal at the Gates" and "Wrath of Sparta" equals $45 USD (Rounded up). That's $57.52 AUD at current value.
I did this mostly because I think I often get the perception that since they're all individually priced and boxes (figuratively speaking) it ends up costing more, but three campaigns and faction additions for $60 AUD isn't too bad.
It is certainly annoying having to buy all the factions in separate bundles. All the faction and unit packs for Rome 2 ends up costing $43 USD ($54.96 AUD).
Totalled with the previous amount, do we think that all the DLC for Rome 2, added together for $91 USD ($116.31 AUD) has the same content value of Lord of Destruction in 1998?
Post by: Retropunch on April 25, 2015, 03:10:35 am
I don't often go out of my way to buy DLC, usually only if a mod I like requires it, and I have found I tend to end up with quite a few as they're given away for free.
Besides all that, I feel like comparing the cost of multiple DLC to an expansion, like "Lord of Destruction".
It's tricky to compare, as we're comparing across different genres. I remember LoD being completely huge when it dropped - so much more content, two whole new characters (with new weapons, skills) it had skill synergies, jewels, monster weaknesses/strengths and all sorts.
I think the thing is that LoD was a definite improvement and a move forward - a sort of mini-sequel. Most DLC just feels like stuff that they either didn't or couldn't throw in the original. While that was fine to begin with, it's now become a case of putting in only the bare minimum in the base game, and then having all the extras in DLC.
Post by: Neonivek on April 25, 2015, 03:17:39 am
How often does DLC shake up the formula?
Lord of Destruction was very noticeable when you were playing with it on versus when you weren't even when you didn't use those two new characters. It changed the entire landscape of how the game was meant to be played.
A proper expansion doesn't just add content for the sake of there being more content.
The first DLC for this game hands down will be a unit faction that will ALREADY be in the game...
The next DLC will be three factions which are the same faction with a few units rearranged, who will bare a striking resemblance to units who already exist in the game.
The way I put it is if you get DLC and it is possible to play the game without knowing there was any DLC to begin with... It wasn't very good.
Yes I will give credit where credit is due and say that while Crusader Kings 2 at least has the right "idea" in that every major expansion they had, the new factions didn't play the same. Mind you I felt like they often didn't do enough but the thought is there. (they still milked that game unjustly... Seriously? you need to PAY to have the game handle character models correctly? Why not just have that be part of the Nordic expansion? Ehh it is Paradox and they are quite famous for rip off dlc anyhow.)
Post by: Mech#4 on April 25, 2015, 03:33:12 am
Or do we think we should only compare DLC to other DLC? What do we think was the most value for money DLC released for a game?
Post by: Neonivek on April 25, 2015, 03:39:22 am
But DLC needs to be compared to the game it was released with.
There is a reason why unlocking "Extra generic faction #1234" might have more "content" in terms of data and time/effort but lacks content because... it is just another generic faction.
Oddly enough the one expansion that I was miffed at was the Empire Total War expansions in that they were pretty much standalone... Which is a shame because a lot of people would have preferred them to exist in the global theater.
Post by: Jopax on April 25, 2015, 03:44:05 am
Post by: Dorsidwarf on April 25, 2015, 03:46:14 am
Another way of putting it is..Paradox may be infamous for bad DLC handling, but the fact that they've been updating the basic game (for free) every time they release a DLC with features, ease of use, and acessibility, is nothing short of amazing. If you don't believe me, download the demo, which hasn't been touched since release, and compare.
How often does DLC shake up the formula?
Lord of Destruction was very noticeable when you were playing with it on versus when you weren't even when you didn't use those two new characters. It changed the entire landscape of how the game was meant to be played.
A proper expansion doesn't just add content for the sake of there being more content.
The first DLC for this game hands down will be a unit faction that will ALREADY be in the game...
The next DLC will be three factions which are the same faction with a few units rearranged, who will bare a striking resemblance to units who already exist in the game.
The way I put it is if you get DLC and it is possible to play the game without knowing there was any DLC to begin with... It wasn't very good.
Yes I will give credit where credit is due and say that while Crusader Kings 2 at least has the right "idea" in that every major expansion they had, the new factions didn't play the same. Mind you I felt like they often didn't do enough but the thought is there. (they still milked that game unjustly... Seriously? you need to PAY to have the game handle character models correctly? Why not just have that be part of the Nordic expansion? Ehh it is Paradox and they are quite famous for rip off dlc anyhow.)
Post by: Mech#4 on April 25, 2015, 03:57:23 am
Mechanics wise they haven't changed much in the DLC added to Rome 2 as much as they changed in the BI expansion for Rome 1. However, the base game of Rome 2 has changed a fair bit from release with patches. The diplomacy mechanic got an overhaul as well as the faction gravitas/popularity system.
"Barbarian Invasion" I don't think changes the base game as it is a separate campaign to the original "take over the world as Rome or another faction", something similar to the expansions for Medieval 2: Total War where the Kingdoms expansion added about 4 focused campaigns with new mechanics that didn't modify the base game campaign.
Do we think there will be a higher or lower chance for "reskinning" of factions in Warhammer: Total War? Aside from the Empire I don't really think so. The other factions are rather unified in their numbers. Let's take Orcs and Goblins; from these we can make base Orcs and Goblins, Forest Goblins, Night Gobins, Feral Orcs and possibly one or two others (sorry, I'm not that knowledgeable on OaG).
Skaven have base warlord, Pestilens, Skrye, Moulder and Eshin, each of which has a big difference in focus (Pestilens = frenzied monks, Skyre = machines, Moulder = mutated monsters and Eshin = assassins).
Post by: Neonivek on April 25, 2015, 04:09:04 am
Paradox may be infamous for bad DLC handling, but the fact that they've been updating the basic game (for free) every time they release a DLC with features, ease of use, and acessibility, is nothing short of amazing. If you don't believe me, download the demo, which hasn't been touched since release, and compare.
In all fairness they had to. It is like when some games raise the level cap with DLC, sometimes they have to raise everyone's level cap.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 25, 2015, 05:30:56 am
Or you could just compare the Rome2+DLC to old Rome+Expansions (IIRC there were two of them) and see how the price/content ratio works out. I wouldn't consider Atilla for R2 tho since it comes out almost as a full game as far as the price goes.
Attila actually is a full game and has no actual connection to Rome 2. The lower entry price is most likely to make buying the game easy and then scrape the rest of the money from you in the form of DLC. It's really approaching a semi "free to play" point.
And yes I am afraid that Warhammer will be the next DLC whore of a game...which makes me sad
Post by: Neonivek on April 25, 2015, 05:41:57 am
Post by: gimli on April 25, 2015, 09:58:56 am
Post by: scriver on April 25, 2015, 10:57:31 am
Paradox may be infamous for bad DLC handling, but the fact that they've been updating the basic game (for free) every time they release a DLC with features, ease of use, and acessibility, is nothing short of amazing. If you don't believe me, download the demo, which hasn't been touched since release, and compare.
In all fairness they had to. It is like when some games raise the level cap with DLC, sometimes they have to raise everyone's level cap.
That's not very similar, and they didn't have to do anything. I don't think they releasing free content out of the kindness of their hearts, mind you, it's fairly obvious it was decided in order to soothe the hate they would get from their decision to go from an expansion pack model to a "DLC only" model. But they certainly could have just ignored their angry fans in that matter - they control almost the entirety of a very niche market, they have no competitors who make the same kind of games that they do. If they wanted to lock all new content into DLC they could have.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 25, 2015, 05:25:58 pm
No shit. We talk about Warhammer afterall. Insane amount of content can be put into DLCs..and you bet that they will release buttload of DLCs. However new races won't be added and released via DLCs IMO, those are better material for expansion packs.
Attila makes me think otherwise. Those are not as varied but they do love cramming new factions as $8 DLC
Post by: Mech#4 on April 26, 2015, 01:27:08 am
I copied this from a repost of the information made by someone on the Total War forums. Apparently the comments themselves were made on Youtube. (http://forums.totalwar.com/showthread.php/155046-TW-Warhammer-Information-from-CA)
Spoiler: List in Here (click to show/hide)
Interesting parts is mention that the factions will play differently and there will be a large variety of units available. The bit on characters with quest arcs, items and possibly mounts is intriguing and reminds me of the avatar they had in the online section of Shogun 2 a bit.
I also like the part saying that the planned expansions will add to the overall campaign map. So if they make one based in Lustria than that area will be added to the base game campaign, not just as a separate campaign like, say, "Wrath of Sparta".
Post by: dennislp3 on April 26, 2015, 08:30:55 am
They want to go "deep and not wide" so they can go "wide" later with DLC
Post by: Puzzlemaker on April 26, 2015, 08:40:54 am
I would rather have a few well-developed factions then a mass amount of poorly developed ones.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 26, 2015, 08:42:41 am
I dont mind DLC...I hate overpriced DLC...I am leery to see how they do it
Not to mention it sounds like they are going to do small nickel and dime DLC too
Post by: Neonivek on April 26, 2015, 08:47:42 am
---
I am kind of disappointed I didn't get any of the factions I was hoping for... ohh well maybe next time.
Post by: Retropunch on April 26, 2015, 09:00:52 am
That plus no modding support is going to make this a tough sell.
Post by: gimli on April 26, 2015, 09:09:52 am
I am kind of disappointed I didn't get any of the factions I was hoping for... ohh well maybenext time.
*2 expansions & 25 DLCs later.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 26, 2015, 09:55:26 am
Post by: Retropunch on April 26, 2015, 10:29:29 am
Maybe you guys missed an important detail but all dlc is actually free on the internet, as is everything on the internet.
And maybe you're missing the point.
Sorry to be blunt, but pulling out the piracy card helps no one. It's the practice itself that's the problem, not just that it's expensive. Releasing games with bare minimum content - which would probably not be deemed to be enough in a pre-dlc time and saying 'oh but you can pay more for some content if you don't feel there's enough!' - is the problem.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 26, 2015, 03:13:19 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 26, 2015, 04:32:58 pm
WHFB and WH40K is essentially based around this entire model. Want a new race? Buy a book. Want a new unit? Buy a couple of boxes of miniatures. To assume that the games based on this franchise will be any different seems a little odd.
DoW1 wasn't horrible in this regard (after many patches). You got a couple of new races, but also some campaign gubbins and a bit of modding support. The stand-alone expansion idea was good to my mind as well.
If they do something similar with TW:WH, it might turn out alright. Hopefully. At least new races or even generals/heroes/units in this will hopefully be a bit better than a reskin and a stat jiggle.
I'm not condoning the zero-day DLC concept, or gutted games selling DLC as "expansions" that are central features that got removed, but both are core marketing and business strategies these days. It can be done well or poorly. But expect it from a WHFB game more than most. You don't have to like it.
Post by: Antioch on April 26, 2015, 06:18:17 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 26, 2015, 06:27:43 pm
Wait, is this the first warhammer fantasy strategy game released since Dark Omen 17 years ago?No. There was Mark of Chaos and its expansion Battle March in 2006 and 2008 respectively
Post by: Neonivek on April 26, 2015, 07:52:10 pm
Piracy is sticky...I will pirate whatever all day if I intend to buy it later (soon later...not vague some day later)...but the last thing I want or need is legally questionable actions so I can get my fix of videogames
Basically this...
Even IF I could pirate a game and all its DLC so that I will have my hands on a fixed version... It would still suck that I would have to.
It is kind of what I say about other games. The existence of mods doesn't mean the game was good.
Post by: GreatJustice on April 26, 2015, 09:19:53 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 26, 2015, 10:20:48 pm
Will they replace the Warscape Engine? That thing has been a hassle even for the game it was designed for, and I could see it ruining anything along the lines of Warhammer. Besides that, I'm a bit skeptical that they aren't splitting up the factions at all, but maybe they'll surprise me.
I believe the game is running off a newer version of the Warscape Engine, if that is the engine that Rome 2 uses.
They are splitting up the factions. Think "Race" for the whole Empire/Vampire Counts/Greenskins/Dwarves, then "Faction" for the individual states within.
Under "Playable Races" in the list: "Each race has a legendary lord character , who is the leader of a faction within your chosen race. ".
So I'd imagine you'd choose Dwaves, then have a choice between "Thorgrim Grudgebearer", "Ungrim Ironfist the Slayer King" and so on who would lead base dwarves or a version that makes more use of slayers respectively.
Post by: sambojin on April 27, 2015, 12:50:53 am
So I will admit my view of DLC for WH:TW is both completely jaded, yet also optimistic on how cheap it will be. Got out of the damn TT game years too late. But with the coolest original Ninja Goblins ever. 8)
So in saying that, I could only assume that Skarsnik's horde of Nine Peaks, or the Wolf Hordes from the East under Oglah Khan, the Forest Goblins and their spiders, or even the Savages from the South, would all play very differently from Mr Big Blackork. Not only on the units, abilities and uprades for them, nor the resources, goals or the outlooks of their generals, but almost as entirely different races inside the basic race in the original box.
Campaign options aplenty. And this is from the "stoopid orc" race.
No different from different bloodlines of the vampire families, or in some ways, different outlooks for the Dwarf Holds, against the Empire or everyone else. Total War perhaps, but in many forms, even of peace. No-one really likes each other much in Warhammer, not even different groups of the same race.
I can see me spending about $30-60 a year on DLCs if they do it well. Campaigns, multiplayer options, and different things to fight for, as well as ways of fighting for them. Full races too as DLC, and mammoth campaign options, as well as multiplayer campaigns. But mini-races and generals leading them sounds like fun actually. As long as they're different enough to each other. What would Skarsnik want compared to "filler BO"? And just how would the Skaven view a grab on more territory from the Empire or the Dwarves? They may actually like there being more tunnels dug around, for future infestation and the search for Warpstone. The Elves care little for either, but nor do they for Gromril or Warpstone. Most of them at least. Yet keeping the Dwarves mining or fighting in tunnels for the Underway and their outposts, so the Elvish ambassadors can influence the Humans freely, is always handy. Let them fight for rocks and dirt against one another, the filth, while hearts and minds are swayed, through sheer force of corrupting magic if need be.
Much can be done with DLC.
And so we shall see.
I'll never spend another cent on WHFB. But a decent game based on it? Yeah, I could do that.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2015, 02:37:50 am
We've got Orcs and Goblins vs the Empire all apparently fighting outside of a dwarven karak with Grimgor and Karl Franz flying about on their winded mounts.
Trolls, giants, orcs, halbediers, greatswords, demigriffs, warrior priests, and I can see some cannons in the background of the aerial combat screenshot. I think there's also an orc shaman in the lower left corner of the same image, to the left of the 3 trolls. There's also some arrer boys towards the bottom.
Edit: Here is another link to an article detailing the game to go along with the screenshots. (http://www.gameinformer.com/games/total_war_warhammer/b/pc/archive/2015/06/04/total-war-warhammer-shows-off-its-epic-battles.aspx?utm_content=buffer47a83&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)
Edit of an edit: Some other things to note from an article published by Polygon:
- Winds of Magic vary in strength depending on where you fight.
- Mages and hero types are gained through missions and act like agents in previous games. So they can be attached to an army or go off to perform assassinations or the like.
- No concept of time. In previous Total War games the turn counter has been close to half a year each turn. In "Total War: Warhammer" it seems like turns won't be measured in half years so characters like Karl Franz won't age and pass away.
- Apparently there will be some aspects of diplomacy.
"It's still very much a sandbox game. You can do whatever you want. If you want to make friends with the Greenskins, you can. There are diplomatic options there for you. But we're going to make it harder. We're going to keep it close to the lore, because generally they would talk to each other, but they'd never really be friends. As we're a sandbox, though, we're going to let you do stuff like that." (http://www.polygon.com/2015/6/4/8722025/total-war-warhammer-battle)
Post by: Digital Hellhound on June 04, 2015, 07:31:47 am
And damn if it doesn't look lovely - I only hope they bring back the Empire/Shogun 2 personal camera mode, instead of the boring Rome 2 hover cam. I wanna see puny humans crushed by Orcs in first person, damnit!
EDIT: One more article. (http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-brings-heroes-and-monsters-to-battle/)
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2015, 08:32:13 am
I like the idea. Warhammer Fantasy has "historical" battles against foes and it would be an entertaining way to include them in the general gameplay.
Post by: dennislp3 on June 04, 2015, 09:20:00 am
Also I like the lean towards RPG aspects with the leaders and special units
Post by: Elfeater on June 04, 2015, 09:21:02 am
Post by: timferius on June 04, 2015, 09:38:41 am
Post by: dennislp3 on June 04, 2015, 09:44:55 am
On the flip side...if you want to try and be optimistic...they did mention there are other factions they haven't mentioned yet
Post by: timferius on June 04, 2015, 09:47:47 am
Can't give you everything all at once...all them DLC need enticing reasons to be bought.Oh did they? I thought they already announced all the at-launch factions. *fingers crossed*
On the flip side...if you want to try and be optimistic...they did mention there are other factions they haven't mentioned yet
Post by: dennislp3 on June 04, 2015, 09:53:02 am
Quote
Creative Assembly isn’t talking about the dwarf or undead armies yet, and definitely not the much-hinted at Chaos army. The most I could get out of Ian Roxburgh, Project Lead, was “There’s a smattering of other minor races, which we’re not talking about yet, but they occupy the world as well. There’s not just four different races and that’s all.”
That was a little blurp just on the side of the article...not really in the article
I am sure they simply announced the playable races and left it at that
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 10:02:30 am
It is likely it'll be DLC. The game's different from other Total Wars because there are quite a few nonhumans in the game, animations and such need to be made for them. An ork can't use human animations. Skaven even less.Can't give you everything all at once...all them DLC need enticing reasons to be bought.Oh did they? I thought they already announced all the at-launch factions. *fingers crossed*
On the flip side...if you want to try and be optimistic...they did mention there are other factions they haven't mentioned yet
Post by: dennislp3 on June 04, 2015, 10:03:25 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2015, 10:14:44 am
While I too am not that enthused about buying faction packs, since they have already stated that the various races will play differently (there was a part in one article that mentioned that the Orcs will have a mechanic that encourages being at war and fighting to increase unit production, being at peace will incur penalties and animosity) the extra time after release put in to flesh out the extra races will assumedly manifest itself in more race specific mechanics.
Seeing Skaven with some mechanic like improving their magic if you complete missions to hunt down new mines of warpstone or having to make regular donations to the council of 13 to retain usage of clan specific units would help make them stand out more.
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2015, 10:25:40 am
From what I understand, at release we will see 4 races as playable: Orcs and Goblins, Empire, Dwarves and Vampire Counts. The article mentions that other races will be present on the map but not playable.Skaven are also a primarily underground force, they'd have to mimic that somehow.
While I too am not that enthused about buying faction packs, since they have already stated that the various races will play differently (there was a part in one article that mentioned that the Orcs will have a mechanic that encourages being at war and fighting to increase unit production, being at peace will incur penalties and animosity) the extra time after release put in to flesh out the extra races will assumedly manifest itself in more race specific mechanics.
Seeing Skaven with some mechanic like improving their magic if you complete missions to hunt down new mines of warpstone or having to make regular donations to the council of 13 to retain usage of clan specific units would help make them stand out more.
Post by: Retropunch on June 04, 2015, 02:30:47 pm
(there was a part in one article that mentioned that the Orcs will have a mechanic that encourages being at war and fighting to increase unit production, being at peace will incur penalties and animosity)
That's one thing that really interests me about this. Although Total war has always been about war, there's always been sort of 'peace time' whereas warhammer is like 100% war. all the time.
I
Post by: GiglameshDespair on June 04, 2015, 05:27:19 pm
whereas warhammer is like 100% war. all the time.You could even call it total war.
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2015, 05:42:21 pm
Post by: sambojin on June 04, 2015, 07:40:28 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on June 04, 2015, 09:19:42 pm
Dwarves are stingy, but they deal all the time. Heaven above help you if you are ONE COIN short of a payment, they'll burn your holdings down, your kingdom, and salt whats left because to cheat someone of anything is sacrilege and worth being carved into the Grudge Stones.
That and they have some weird thoughts when it comes to creating things, rune artifacts are just as sacred and one should never create the same thing twice with runes. With one infamous dwarf gaining the moniker "The Mad" because he made the Runefang swords that are the badge of office of the Elector Counts.
Post by: Rakonas on June 09, 2015, 02:33:35 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 09, 2015, 02:45:07 am
Dwarves would fight other dwarves or the Empire over perceived grudge worthy slights. A war was fought between the Dwarves and Empire because the dwarves built a castle for the humans and received a payment that was slightly lower than expected. It was an accounting error but they went to war before even considering asking.
The High Elves used to own land all over the old world. I believe there are numerous towers and ruins of elven origin scattered around the Empire that they could fight over to reclaim. Since they consider all non elves as little more than stick wielding barbarians it would be easy for them to justify burning a few villages down to clear the area. I don't think High Elves really make treaties with other races because that would imply that they were equals, which the High Elves certainly do not see themselves as. Finubar is a more tolerate Phoenix King towards other races because he lived amongst them for some time I believe.
I think High Elves would even fight other High Elves to remove adversaries of a political nature.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 09, 2015, 02:51:31 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 09, 2015, 02:59:09 am
Even a faction like Space Marines can fight each other due to different interpretations of the codex astartes or some past grudge between their chapters. "You stole a holy artefact of our primarch!" "It was given to us by your Primarch as a gift of honour!" Scuffle ensures. :P
Post by: gimli on June 09, 2015, 05:26:11 am
(there was a part in one article that mentioned that the Orcs will have a mechanic that encourages being at war and fighting to increase unit production, being at peace will incur penalties and animosity)
That's one thing that really interests me about this. Although Total war has always been about war, there's always been sort of 'peace time' whereas warhammer is like 100% war. all the time.
I
Hehe, I am wondering about the possible diplo options for the Orcs. 1. Demand tribute, 2. War, 3. Total War vs everyone
Post by: timferius on June 09, 2015, 07:31:35 am
Fixed a few spelling mistakes.(there was a part in one article that mentioned that the Orcs will have a mechanic that encourages being at war and fighting to increase unit production, being at peace will incur penalties and animosity)
That's one thing that really interests me about this. Although Total war has always been about war, there's always been sort of 'peace time' whereas warhammer is like 100% war. all the time.
I
Hehe, I am wondering about the possible diplo options for the Orcs. 1. Wagh?, 2.Waagh , 3. WAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
Post by: Digital Hellhound on June 19, 2015, 05:17:11 pm
EDIT: First link's content is repeated in the second article. I have no idea why they posted both.
Anyway, they talk about Orcs hating everybody, but I wonder if the Empire and Vampire Counts can... work together, or at least have non-hostile relations. I really want to know how the Vamps' campaign will be unique. In-fighting and family squabbles, no doubt.
Post by: timferius on June 19, 2015, 06:53:36 pm
Post by: Elfeater on June 19, 2015, 07:00:30 pm
Post by: timferius on June 19, 2015, 07:13:03 pm
Post by: Nelia Hawk on June 19, 2015, 07:31:42 pm
i wonder if they will be some sort of higher level barbarians... maybe over time the "warp" stuff starts to increase (dwarves mining too deeply or skaven spreading that stuff around the towns or weak priests getting corrupted by researching artefacts you found somewhere) and they come from your ranks (i.e. empire) as corrupted people.
or if people get "unhappy" they pray to demons (some sort of religion?) instead and spawn stuff and you have to deal with a village getting eaten by demons. and then go in with your army and station priests for a while or build a church etc trying to get the demon influence out of the village again what might work or not.
maybe the empire is like "rome" (big empire made up of lots of little villages), and the greenskins are like the "mongols" (sweeping over the land raiding everything) and the chaos could grow from internal conflicts (i.e. when the big roman empire got split up in "rome total war"?)
Post by: puke on June 20, 2015, 02:04:38 am
Going down a river? Don't get off the boat.
The warhammer fiction is pretty rich, I recommend Warhammer Fantasy Role Playing.
Post by: scriver on June 20, 2015, 02:18:18 am
Im kinda disappointed that there are only 4 factions to start.
Well, if it's anything like their other recent games, there'll be two or three sub factions to each faction.
Post by: dennislp3 on June 20, 2015, 02:25:09 am
Post by: scriver on June 20, 2015, 02:42:05 am
Post by: dennislp3 on June 20, 2015, 07:05:00 am
Post by: Teneb on June 20, 2015, 12:05:48 pm
Besides, I'd rather they'd do a few races in-depth first and then add more over time than having them do a lot of factions with barely any detail between them.
Post by: Teneb on June 23, 2015, 03:16:10 pm
Post by: umiman on June 23, 2015, 03:22:08 pm
Post by: Blitzkrieg on July 04, 2015, 01:08:31 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on July 04, 2015, 01:11:30 pm
Post by: sebcool on July 04, 2015, 02:46:31 pm
Im kinda disappointed that there are only 4 factions to start.
Well, if it's anything like their other recent games, there'll be two or three sub factions to each faction.
I can kinda see how that would work. The factions would be the races, while the sub-factions would be their actual factions. So humans would have the Empire, Bretonnia, etc; the elves would have High-, Dark-, and Wood elves; and so on.
Post by: Sirus on July 04, 2015, 03:53:45 pm
That seems like it would work quite well, actually.Im kinda disappointed that there are only 4 factions to start.
Well, if it's anything like their other recent games, there'll be two or three sub factions to each faction.
I can kinda see how that would work. The factions would be the races, while the sub-factions would be their actual factions. So humans would have the Empire, Bretonnia, etc; the elves would have High-, Dark-, and Wood elves; and so on.
Post by: sambojin on July 04, 2015, 08:00:25 pm
That seems like it would work quite well, actually.Im kinda disappointed that there are only 4 factions to start.
Well, if it's anything like their other recent games, there'll be two or three sub factions to each faction.
I can kinda see how that would work. The factions would be the races, while the sub-factions would be their actual factions. So humans would have the Empire, Bretonnia, etc; the elves would have High-, Dark-, and Wood elves; and so on.
Could possibly even go a level deeper, with Humans being Middenheimer, Marienburgers, etc. Or even the various knightly orders. Tilea/Estalia are also options.
High Elves might be based on city-state as well. DEs and WEs sort of have to be actual races, not subraces, because they're very different. I have no idea how you'd split them up (fey or elf majority for WE? Khaine/Slaneeshi/Corsair/Normal for DE?)
O+G would probably be divided more along the lines of subraces rather than location (although location does feature into it a bit). NG, Goblin, Orc, Savage Orcs and Wolf Riders (or eastern hodgepodge). All with various resources and ways of doing things.
Will you join the Waaaggghhh! from an Orc leader from miles away with your gobbo horde? Does the Reik really care what happens to the Moot, unless ordered to by the Emperor himself?
There's lots of ways they can go with DLC whoring. If they do it right, it could be good. Big, basic Races at launch, then more different races/subraces, with lots of flavour units later on as DLC.
I'd prefer big races with options for more specific factions as an all-in-one package (ie: Buy DE. You get everything dark and elvy, so you're really buying 4 different factions. Normal faction (think AB race), then each specific subfaction, with them all being different enough to be worthwhile looking at, and gaining different bonuses and units for certain things. Corsairs do different things with slaves than Slaneeshi, but rule the seas instead of the chaos magicks, whereas Normal DE might not have the intrigue and assassination abilities of Khainite elves, but they do get a wide range of troop types to choose from).
So humans DLC would come with 5-8 different city-state variants or subfactions, just because the main race was already in the game. Tilea and Estalia aren't that different to the Empire, so even 4 regionals and those two would make a good package. Same with orcs, dwarves, vamps and elves and their various army types/subfactions. Less hard work, just unit variations, costings/availability, some strategic options and a bit of iconography.
Whereas new races (ones that actually do take a lot of extra art work/design/modelling and gameplay features to include) come with the big, basic race, and 3-5 subfactions along with it so you can vary up your playstyle a bit and try new things with your favourite race. That still leaves plenty of DLC for them to sell, but gives a nice all-in-one purchase for the customer so they only have to pick up their favourite races, rather than 100 DLC micro packages or oddly bundled groups.
The only odd bundle that I'd accept is Bretonnia and WE/Fey, because of lore and the fact that it'd be hard to split them up otherwise. You could have Bretonnia normal/Knightly/commoner I guess, but it's a pretty small package (same with WE splits for Normal/WE/Fey playstyles). A little bit of crossover wouldn't be terrible between them anyway, just to push the fluff a bit.
That's what I'm hoping for anyway. We'll see how it goes.
Post by: Blitzkrieg on July 05, 2015, 01:44:45 pm
I prefer the RTS aspect being a part of it...not a big fan of spending half the time I play a game waiting for the computer to move
Huh? Tactical combat in Total War games is actually far longer than tactical combat in any TBS games that I know of. As for strategic turns, turn waits can also become interminably long in Total War games as well.
Post by: dennislp3 on July 05, 2015, 02:50:20 pm
I find it far more entertaining than most turn based games.
And you missed the point...combat taking a long time is not the same as waiting around doing nothing while the computer farts around every 10 seconds.
I do like plenty of TBS games...but I usually need to be in the mood for it
Post by: Mech#4 on July 18, 2015, 12:03:27 am
The next release of video content is planned for the 30th of July. I believe it will consist of the video they showed at E3; a scripted battle sequence showing units fighting each other.
There is some more information available on the forums as well. A brief biography of Karl Franz as well as various other bits and pieces of information scattered about. There is also a useful topic explaining the differences between in-engine, in-game and vinematic trailers as it stands for Creative Assembly. (http://forums.totalwar.com/forumdisplay.php/245-Total-War-WARHAMMER?s=a766497ba9f2e1dbfae920a6c5779fed)
Post by: aireoth on July 21, 2015, 03:19:46 pm
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2015, 03:37:15 pm
I dunno about that. I love the IRISZOOM engine but I've never seen it do any sort of complex animations... especially human-related. It's just really good for vehicle based wargames like Wargame, Ruse, and Act of Aggression.
With Warhammer it's all about the massive-close-up infantry carnage. I highly doubt IRISZOOM can do that. I haven't even seen it do blood before.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 21, 2015, 05:12:49 pm
Post by: sambojin on July 22, 2015, 11:45:53 am
I'm pretty sure they're leaving the Space Marines at home for this one though. Probably. Hopefully. WHFB is in a pretty messed up state right now though, so anything's possible. As long as it earns GW money, anything could show up, lore-be-damned. They can just write a short story about it afterwards and it'll be fine.......
Post by: Tellemurius on July 22, 2015, 11:50:44 am
By projectiles, you do mean magical orbital bombardment comets and controlled tears in the fabric of reality, right? Because they've done cannons and stuff already.not even close to enough dakka. I want my screen covered with bullet tracers.
Post by: Teneb on July 22, 2015, 11:55:07 am
From your posts it seems you think this is a 40k game. It's fantasy battles, there is no dakka.By projectiles, you do mean magical orbital bombardment comets and controlled tears in the fabric of reality, right? Because they've done cannons and stuff already.not even close to enough dakka. I want my screen covered with bullet tracers.
Post by: Tellemurius on July 22, 2015, 12:01:23 pm
Im still carrying on the conversation above me that was about 40kFrom your posts it seems you think this is a 40k game. It's fantasy battles, there is no dakka.By projectiles, you do mean magical orbital bombardment comets and controlled tears in the fabric of reality, right? Because they've done cannons and stuff already.not even close to enough dakka. I want my screen covered with bullet tracers.
Post by: sambojin on July 22, 2015, 12:01:39 pm
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2015, 12:11:44 pm
By projectiles, you do mean magical orbital bombardment comets and controlled tears in the fabric of reality, right? Because they've done cannons and stuff already.not even close to enough dakka. I want my screen covered with bullet tracers.
Orkboiz unique ability:
MORE DAKKA!
Improved reloading for an extended time.
Shots per minute
Exertion: fatigue
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on July 22, 2015, 12:34:11 pm
There is dakka, but not enough. And it's in a rather sad state of affairs where only 'umies and stunties realize that strapping more guns together makes stuff better.
Heh, Strapped together guns.
They are just stuck with such small thinking, Ogre's realize that rather then strapping guns, you just go Bigger.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Silent_Thunder on July 22, 2015, 12:40:40 pm
There is dakka, but not enough. And it's in a rather sad state of affairs where only 'umies and stunties realize that strapping more guns together makes stuff better.
Heh, Strapped together guns.
They are just stuck with such small thinking, Ogre's realize that rather then strapping guns, you just go Bigger.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And Ogre Hellblaster cannon would be a beautiful thing, wouldn't it?
Post by: sambojin on July 22, 2015, 06:04:21 pm
At least with WHFB lore they've got plenty of places they can go to, to keep the hype. Xcom's boobsnakes probably aren't going to be able to keep up with anything Slaneeshi or DE.
Grimdark thought for the day: There are Chaos Ogres.
Post by: sambojin on July 24, 2015, 07:32:08 am
And, ummm, continue the hype. It's not my fault that I'm a death of threads :)
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 24, 2015, 07:50:35 am
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on July 24, 2015, 12:24:18 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 24, 2015, 12:26:36 pm
Post by: RoguelikeRazuka on July 24, 2015, 12:28:47 pm
Because guns are terrible in Total War engines.In what aspect? Define that.
Post by: scriver on July 24, 2015, 12:55:02 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on July 24, 2015, 02:02:53 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on July 24, 2015, 06:15:41 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 24, 2015, 07:15:02 pm
would the current engine handle the complexity of engagements definitely not, but a new engine with the possibility to perform macro and micro is a very good idea for 40k.
Post by: Elfeater on July 24, 2015, 08:53:30 pm
to be fair, 40k does rely on large formations of men, depending on whose writing. Also, while the guard is commonly portrayed as WWII-esque, it is also portrayed commonly as Napoleonic, especially in the larger fights.It really depends on the regiment too, with Kreig being closer to WW1. Things along those lines.
would the current engine handle the complexity of engagements definitely not, but a new engine with the possibility to perform macro and micro is a very good idea for 40k.
Post by: Retropunch on July 28, 2015, 03:12:20 pm
Really I don't think the changes would need to be too significant. They'd need to make units be able to spread out/find cover, and improve ranged weapons but I doubt it'd be too big of a departure.
Post by: dennislp3 on July 28, 2015, 04:52:16 pm
Post by: Retropunch on July 28, 2015, 05:20:29 pm
This is true...especially given that you would be dealing with seas of men and lots of melee combat anyways
Yeah, I mean when you think about it, in the 'ranged' stage of combat they're basically advancing in formation anyway, it'd just need a bit more looseness/crossover between the ranged stage and the melee stage, plus a more general looseness in formation.
I imagine that a lot of it is down to hardware. The original Shogun:Total War was incredible when it first came out as there was just no other game about to have that many units on screen at once. As computer power ramps up* they'll be able to make individual units make more decisions (and do things like find cover and so on - although that could probably be 'faked' very easily) and be more individual. They just need to get a handle on making explosions/dakka explosive enough, as currently it's always felt a bit flat.
*(Whilst it's a PC exclusive, they probably set their benchmark at around the current gen consoles as that's what most people's gaming rigs will be averaging.)
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 28, 2015, 05:25:33 pm
This is true...especially given that you would be dealing with seas of men and lots of melee combat anyways
Yeah, I mean when you think about it, in the 'ranged' stage of combat they're basically advancing in formation anyway, it'd just need a bit more looseness/crossover between the ranged stage and the melee stage, plus a more general looseness in formation.
I imagine that a lot of it is down to hardware. The original Shogun:Total War was incredible when it first came out as there was just no other game about to have that many units on screen at once. As computer power ramps up* they'll be able to make individual units make more decisions (and do things like find cover and so on - although that could probably be 'faked' very easily) and be more individual. They just need to get a handle on making explosions/dakka explosive enough, as currently it's always felt a bit flat.
*(Whilst it's a PC exclusive, they probably set their benchmark at around the current gen consoles as that's what most people's gaming rigs will be averaging.)
+1
Post by: umiman on July 28, 2015, 11:49:45 pm
Mostly because when it had guns, the amount of tactics available to you expanded a hundredfold. When it's just melee and arrows, all you can do is flank and counter flank and that's about it. You have some freedom in your strategies but they're fairly limited. Victory was almost entirely dependent on your flankers (so basically your cavalry).
Most of the exceptions would be either the players were scrubs or someone was cheesing with all archers or all horse archers (OP as fuck) or something like that.
With guns, things get nuts. Combat ranges become significantly larger and battles become more about mobility and the capability to adapt rather than who can not run away first. Skirmishing also becomes far more important rather than being just a phase of battle. Also units become far more spread out and not just blob together. I really loved FotS's multiplayer but Napoleon was great too. The rapid moving cannons made for excellent gameplay but FotS had more stuff (like gatling guns and a hilarious announcer).
So basically, I wouldn't mind if there was a 40k Total War. Rather, I'd look forward to it.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 29, 2015, 08:11:21 am
Also I think the only Total War multiplayer that's worth playing for a long time is Fall of the Samurai's and Napoleon.
Mostly because when it had guns, the amount of tactics available to you expanded a hundredfold. When it's just melee and arrows, all you can do is flank and counter flank and that's about it. You have some freedom in your strategies but they're fairly limited. Victory was almost entirely dependent on your flankers (so basically your cavalry).
Most of the exceptions would be either the players were scrubs or someone was cheesing with all archers or all horse archers (OP as fuck) or something like that.
With guns, things get nuts. Combat ranges become significantly larger and battles become more about mobility and the capability to adapt rather than who can not run away first. Skirmishing also becomes far more important rather than being just a phase of battle. Also units become far more spread out and not just blob together. I really loved FotS's multiplayer but Napoleon was great too. The rapid moving cannons made for excellent gameplay but FotS had more stuff (like gatling guns and a hilarious announcer).
So basically, I wouldn't mind if there was a 40k Total War. Rather, I'd look forward to it.
another +1, though I will say that in Medieval 2 you could get creative with tactics despite being able to get by on cookie-cutter placement.
Post by: Teneb on July 29, 2015, 08:52:02 am
Yeah. That said, there are guns in Warhammer Fantasy, so this could still be fairly complex. Not to mention magic and flying/giant units.Also I think the only Total War multiplayer that's worth playing for a long time is Fall of the Samurai's and Napoleon.
Mostly because when it had guns, the amount of tactics available to you expanded a hundredfold. When it's just melee and arrows, all you can do is flank and counter flank and that's about it. You have some freedom in your strategies but they're fairly limited. Victory was almost entirely dependent on your flankers (so basically your cavalry).
Most of the exceptions would be either the players were scrubs or someone was cheesing with all archers or all horse archers (OP as fuck) or something like that.
With guns, things get nuts. Combat ranges become significantly larger and battles become more about mobility and the capability to adapt rather than who can not run away first. Skirmishing also becomes far more important rather than being just a phase of battle. Also units become far more spread out and not just blob together. I really loved FotS's multiplayer but Napoleon was great too. The rapid moving cannons made for excellent gameplay but FotS had more stuff (like gatling guns and a hilarious announcer).
So basically, I wouldn't mind if there was a 40k Total War. Rather, I'd look forward to it.
another +1, though I will say that in Medieval 2 you could get creative with tactics despite being able to get by on cookie-cutter placement.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 29, 2015, 08:53:18 am
Post by: timferius on July 29, 2015, 09:31:10 am
Post by: Teneb on July 29, 2015, 09:51:44 am
The main reason I want Skaven in this game is the weird shit they field. I just want to go wild with a doom-wheel, while warplightining cannon shots fly through the air, and a rattling gun starts spinning wildly and chewing through a unit of slaves. Ahhhh, good times.It's not impossible they won't be added in the future, since it looks like they'll do something like Shogun 2. So I am guessing there will be free and DLC factions as well as fall/rise of the samurai style campaings with extra stuff. The devs did mention that by the end, you'll get a large map with various factions (if you got everything). I am willing to bet one of the expansions will be high elves vs dark elves, with maybe some stuff like lizardmen on the side.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 29, 2015, 10:35:00 am
Empire, Orcs and Goblins, Vampire Counts, Dwarves. Possible expansions could include Bretonnia, Wood Elves, Skaven, Border Princes, Kislev, Norse Tribes, Beastmen and Night Goblins.
Less likely, even though they're on the map would be things like Chaos Dwarves, Tilia, Estalia and Halflings.
Larger factions like Ogre Kingdoms, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen and Tomb Kings, while not in the area on the map, could have expedition forces.
In other news; A new video has been released showing off the "Luminark of Hysh". A large focusing array that will be used to shoot at large enemy monsters as well as protect nearby forces through a magic aura or forcefield. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEOwbKhEwik)
Post by: Teneb on July 29, 2015, 11:26:56 am
I believe the information so far has pointed towards them planning to include the whole old world area. It's a bit fuzzy on what that actually includes, since it's not really a well defined area, but factions within this map are a possibility. They did mention that each expansion would expand the campaign map area. (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/wfrp1e/images/4/4c/OldWorld.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140926094639)I doubt border princes will be playable. Or, if they are, I guess they'll just use the rosters of other factions.
Empire, Orcs and Goblins, Vampire Counts, Dwarves. Possible expansions could include Bretonnia, Wood Elves, Skaven, Border Princes, Kislev, Norse Tribes, Beastmen and Night Goblins.
Less likely, even though they're on the map would be things like Chaos Dwarves, Tilia, Estalia and Halflings.
Larger factions like Ogre Kingdoms, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen and Tomb Kings, while not in the area on the map, could have expedition forces.
In other news; A new video has been released showing off the "Luminark of Hysh". A large focusing array that will be used to shoot at large enemy monsters as well as protect nearby forces through a magic aura or forcefield. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEOwbKhEwik)
I really doubt it, but I'd like to see Cathay in some form, especially since they probably have the most amount of fluff from the factions that never appear.
Also, I really want to see the effect of a giant magical laser in the general strategy of the game.
Post by: Retropunch on July 29, 2015, 01:30:23 pm
I'm very interested to see how these 'mega-weapons' line up. Old Total Wars don't really have that sort of thing, so it'll be interesting how they balance that. I have a fear that the mega-weapons will either be distinctly underwhelming or the balancing will just be terrible.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 29, 2015, 10:35:17 pm
Luminark of Hysh for the Empire. Possibly the Anvil of Doom for the Dwarves, Mortis Engine/Covan Throne/Black Coach for Vampire Counts. Orcs and Goblins, being melee focused, might have the Arachnarok Spider as their big doomy thing.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 30, 2015, 09:18:57 am
Lot's of different units shown and how they will work.
Empire: Swordsmen, Handgunners, Greatswords, Halberds, Outriders, Reiksguard, Demigryph, Luminark of Hysh, Celestial Wizard, Warrior Priest, Witch Hunter, Hellblaster Volley Gun, Hellstorm Rocket Battery, Cannons, Steam Tank.
Orcs and Goblins: Orc Boys, Black Orcs, Savage Orcs, Goblins, Goblin Spider Riders, Goblin Wolf Riders, Orc Boar Boys, Trolls, Giants, Orc Shaman, Goblin Shaman, Doom Diver Catapult, Arachnarok.
Orcs were led by Grimgor Ironhide with a retinue of Immortalz. Interestingly there was, I think, two flying Orc bosses on Wyverns beside Grimgor. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/total-war-warhammer-in-game-footage/)
Post by: timferius on July 30, 2015, 09:29:06 am
Post by: umiman on July 30, 2015, 09:44:05 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 30, 2015, 10:13:30 am
Post by: umiman on July 30, 2015, 10:17:06 am
Edit: I'm pretty excited that you can finally have armies consisting of single dudes.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 30, 2015, 10:35:28 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 30, 2015, 10:56:46 am
Post by: Sirus on July 30, 2015, 11:27:56 am
Right about here. (https://youtu.be/C6LpcRKS13c?t=6m36s)
Post by: umiman on July 30, 2015, 12:39:32 pm
It's probably the first time he'll show up in a Warhammer game. Normally it's Khorne and Nurgle.
Post by: timferius on July 30, 2015, 12:41:43 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 30, 2015, 12:57:04 pm
@timferius: Yes, they can be colour coded as well. Tzeentch: Blue, Khorne: Red, Nurgle: Green, Slaanesh: Pink.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 30, 2015, 01:16:42 pm
Cavalry impacts defenitely need more work, but the infantry looked a lot better. Did you see the impact of the first troll unit? Looked like it smashed half of their opponents in the first charge.
Right about here. (https://youtu.be/C6LpcRKS13c?t=6m36s)
Yes, it looks like they've really nailed it down! Perfect actually, just enough people get toasted to make you scared even watching it, but enough remain standing for you to say, "yes, i'll take a swing before fleeing for my life"
Post by: timferius on July 30, 2015, 01:21:55 pm
It hasn't been said in so many words, and they've really said nothing further about Chaos as a faction in game, but in the cinematic trailer a corrupted mage summoned a "Lord of Change", the greater daemon of Tzeentch.That is really thoughtful of them.
@timferius: Yes, they can be colour coded as well. Tzeentch: Blue, Khorne: Red, Nurgle: Green, Slaanesh: Pink.
Post by: Teneb on July 30, 2015, 02:17:08 pm
So the Chaos god this time is Tzeentch isn't it?Tzeentch featured in Warhammer Online too, for whatever that's worth.
It's probably the first time he'll show up in a Warhammer game. Normally it's Khorne and Nurgle.
I'm guessing Chaos might appear as sort of "religion", in that the empire can turn to chaos. Little point in showing off the Lord of Change otherwise.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 30, 2015, 02:18:42 pm
So the Chaos god this time is Tzeentch isn't it?Tzeentch featured in Warhammer Online too, for whatever that's worth.
It's probably the first time he'll show up in a Warhammer game. Normally it's Khorne and Nurgle.
I'm guessing Chaos might appear as sort of "religion", in that the empire can turn to chaos. Little point in showing off the Lord of Change otherwise.
That would be an interesting idea for a mechanic, because lore wise, the forces of chaos only invade when their heresies spread in the empire, and indeed their greatest champions usually hail from such.
Post by: Teneb on July 30, 2015, 02:20:49 pm
There's the northmen too, but I am guessing these will appear as expansion/dlc content.So the Chaos god this time is Tzeentch isn't it?Tzeentch featured in Warhammer Online too, for whatever that's worth.
It's probably the first time he'll show up in a Warhammer game. Normally it's Khorne and Nurgle.
I'm guessing Chaos might appear as sort of "religion", in that the empire can turn to chaos. Little point in showing off the Lord of Change otherwise.
That would be an interesting idea for a mechanic, because lore wise, the forces of chaos only invade when their heresies spread in the empire, and indeed their greatest champions usually hail from such.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 30, 2015, 02:24:42 pm
Post by: Nick K on July 30, 2015, 04:09:23 pm
So the Chaos god this time is Tzeentch isn't it?Tzeentch featured in Warhammer Online too, for whatever that's worth.
It's probably the first time he'll show up in a Warhammer game. Normally it's Khorne and Nurgle.
I'm guessing Chaos might appear as sort of "religion", in that the empire can turn to chaos. Little point in showing off the Lord of Change otherwise.
I suspect a chaos invasion might be the late-game challenge this time, instead of a civil war. I hope they have a playable chaos faction at some point though.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 30, 2015, 04:29:30 pm
Post by: sambojin on July 30, 2015, 05:37:05 pm
It looks like they've really captured the balance between grimdark, serious and humorous needed for a Warhammer game to be cool. We can only hope that giants still have a "Stuff down pants" attack, for the ultimate way of killing enemy heroes.
Until then, Weeeeeeeee! SPLAT!
Post by: Retropunch on July 30, 2015, 05:59:37 pm
I do think releasing it without the 'proper' cavalry charges was a bit of a miss-step on their behalf though. Firstly, it definitely doesn't look as impressive as it would do if they were fully implemented, thereby kinda lessening the impact of the video and secondly, they're going to have to make massive changes now that it's been so poor to start with. If they don't pull out something really great everyones going to be moaning about how rubbish cavalry charges are forever.
I thought the doomdiver thing looked fun, but a bit gimmicky - i'm fine with that and all, but I really don't want them to sacrifice gameplay/tactics for gimmicky stuff.
Post by: sambojin on July 30, 2015, 06:19:07 pm
It does show the versatility of the engine as well. Depending on how moddable it is on release, there's going to be a heap of things able to be done.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on August 03, 2015, 02:33:59 am
I recall some of the mods that turned former Total War Games into Lord of the Rings playing quite well, with the orcs having littarl waves of worthless 200 unit squads and trolls playing akin to wrecking balls on legs
Post by: Mech#4 on August 03, 2015, 03:09:37 am
If not, the giant in tabletop is quite random in it's effects. I think you roll a D6 and choose from a list which attack it does. Things like: Jump up and Down. Swing Club. Pick up and... 1: Throw 2:Stuff Down Pants. 3: Eat.
Post by: Retropunch on August 03, 2015, 05:14:53 am
Post by: Majestic7 on August 03, 2015, 05:29:21 am
Post by: Retropunch on August 03, 2015, 09:40:03 am
M:TW2 has quite excellent LotR mod which, to my knowledge, never attracted any legal attention despite borrowing appearances of units straight out of the movies.I do love that mod!
I'm guessing it avoided that due to a mixture of age (2009), lack of popularity (in comparison to skyrim mods) and because Warner Bros. weren't all gearing up for the hobbit movies. I'd really like to think they'd leave it alone but I highly doubt it somehow.
Post by: Ibid Straydrink on August 03, 2015, 08:20:04 pm
Post by: umiman on August 03, 2015, 10:48:38 pm
For better or worse, RTS games in general don't garner the same kind of following as Skyrim. There's plenty of super ripoffy mods out there. Look at the unlimited number of Star Wars and Star Trek mods for all the space RTSes.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 04, 2015, 07:13:58 am
Post by: Majestic7 on August 04, 2015, 07:44:43 am
Post by: Sergarr on August 04, 2015, 02:16:35 pm
Post by: umiman on August 04, 2015, 09:32:00 pm
Post by: umiman on September 04, 2015, 10:57:47 pm
http://www.pcinvasion.com/total-war-warhammer-gets-new-dwarf-in-game-cinematic
=O
Edit: So apparently we'll get underground battles now. That sounds pretty freaking cool. Also, for sure 100% I will be playing Dorfs in my first game. Artillery? Bombers? Dorfs?! How can I not play them?!
Post by: Sirus on September 05, 2015, 12:31:06 am
Post by: timferius on September 08, 2015, 06:24:32 am
Post by: puke on September 08, 2015, 09:00:38 pm
I hope we get to keep our own Dammaz Kron, that would be sweet.
I wonder if some tunnels will be too low for gyrocopters, or if the underground maps will just be floor skins with some walls and obstacles? Or if there will be multiple-level combat with bridges and underpasses and such? I'm betting on "skin", but it should still be cool.
Post by: umiman on September 17, 2015, 10:24:27 am
It's so delicious.
Cannons, flamethrowers, and ornithopters!
I like how they kept it so the ranged dwarves are not some puny pipsqueak in melee like any other ranged unit.
Post by: ragnar119 on September 17, 2015, 03:06:26 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvOZEj6VaiE
Post by: Kenpokiller on September 18, 2015, 04:01:33 pm
Post by: nenjin on September 18, 2015, 04:41:19 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 18, 2015, 05:12:05 pm
Never played a TW game. I assume you can pause and issue commands like in most RTS war games?
Full Real Time, no pausing (except at the beginning to set formations)
Post by: Hetairos on September 18, 2015, 05:19:39 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 18, 2015, 05:21:52 pm
Well, you can pause if you are in single-player. That's mostly so you can leave the computer if needed.Never played a TW game. I assume you can pause and issue commands like in most RTS war games?
Full Real Time, no pausing (except at the beginning to set formations)
Speaking of TW in general, anyone know any sort of guide to Rome2/Attila? Because while I was slightly decent in Rome 1 and Medieval 2, and mediocre in Shogun 2, I am horribly bad at the newest two (and desire to stop being bad so I can properly enjoy this one when it comes out).
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on September 18, 2015, 05:40:41 pm
Post by: Retropunch on September 18, 2015, 06:08:21 pm
Speaking of TW in general, anyone know any sort of guide to Rome2/Attila? Because while I was slightly decent in Rome 1 and Medieval 2, and mediocre in Shogun 2, I am horribly bad at the newest two (and desire to stop being bad so I can properly enjoy this one when it comes out).
Are you talking single or multi? I never really played multi but got quite decent at Attila. I found Attila was a lot more about slow and defensive play, using raiding parties to fill up your coffers in single player. I never really used any guides, but I always had the wiki open to check my opponents strengths/weaknesses.
Post by: Teneb on September 18, 2015, 06:23:21 pm
Single. I played multiplayer in Shogun 2, but it's not really my thing.Speaking of TW in general, anyone know any sort of guide to Rome2/Attila? Because while I was slightly decent in Rome 1 and Medieval 2, and mediocre in Shogun 2, I am horribly bad at the newest two (and desire to stop being bad so I can properly enjoy this one when it comes out).
Are you talking single or multi? I never really played multi but got quite decent at Attila. I found Attila was a lot more about slow and defensive play, using raiding parties to fill up your coffers in single player. I never really used any guides, but I always had the wiki open to check my opponents strengths/weaknesses.
Post by: umiman on September 18, 2015, 07:21:34 pm
Because I think asking for both might be a little out of the scope of this thread, heh.
Here's some tips from me:
Campaign:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Battle:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thankfully, I think the battles, strategy, and potential for multiplayer will be more fun with Warhammer rules. Because there are guns, flying units, magic, cannons, flamethrowers, and zany stuff to alter the dynamics. After all, who cares about unit lines when you can drop a meteor on that clump of dudes?
Post by: Teneb on September 18, 2015, 07:31:05 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 19, 2015, 11:02:35 pm
Post by: Baffler on September 19, 2015, 11:15:50 pm
I need this in my life
+1. I was a fan of the original Rome, and this looks like it'll really be shaking up the formula. Hopefully the AI can't be outmaneuvered as easily as in Rome though.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 19, 2015, 11:25:36 pm
Post by: Sirus on September 19, 2015, 11:30:06 pm
Post by: umiman on September 19, 2015, 11:43:22 pm
Post by: Sirus on September 19, 2015, 11:51:59 pm
Post by: umiman on October 22, 2015, 11:33:37 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 22, 2015, 11:48:38 am
Here's an article on the announcements from Rock, Paper, Shotgun. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/22/total-war-warhammer-release-date/)
Post by: nenjin on October 22, 2015, 12:07:22 pm
CA decided to put Chaos behind launch day DLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d28HkXgjWA
Damn it.
I guess it goes two ways: either the storylines and quests for each faction are so trivial that they can crank it out as Day Zero DLC....or it's a significant chunk of content that they've already made DLC months in advance.
Post by: scriver on October 22, 2015, 12:27:00 pm
Speeching of which. It looks like I'm going to have to let myself down again and pre-order this game. Not sure get though. Not sure.
Post by: timferius on October 22, 2015, 12:28:00 pm
Or their team designing and coding factions is done their work and set on this while the rest of the team finishes up the main game?CA decided to put Chaos behind launch day DLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d28HkXgjWA
Damn it.
I guess it goes two ways: either the storylines and quests for each faction are so trivial that they can crank it out as Day Zero DLC....or it's a significant chunk of content that they've already made DLC months in advance.
Either way, I've just given up being bothered by DLC.
Post by: dennislp3 on October 22, 2015, 12:49:01 pm
I called this long ago in this thread and most people talked me down...but it seems my point is being proven...
Post by: umiman on October 22, 2015, 01:10:56 pm
There is some images of the Chaos units if you go to the DLC page on Steam. The lords for Chaos are Archaon the Everchosen, Kholek Suneater and ,interestingly, Sigvald the Magnificent. (http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/404010/ss_4944ef6c50bcd8102c4ad9ecfa13ed40b24fa3af.jpg?t=1445532094)At least they choose some of the cooler heroes. The only guy really missing is Galrauch. I was kinda expecting him with the whole Tzeentch thing.
Here's an article on the announcements from Rock, Paper, Shotgun. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/10/22/total-war-warhammer-release-date/)
p.s: I've gone from day 1 purchase to pirating the game. I was okay with stuff like Sparta locked behind DLC but putting Chaos behind it is stupid. That's like making Rome Total War and making Rome DLC.
Post by: Stuebi on October 22, 2015, 02:22:23 pm
Warhammer and Total War is a combination where I'm prepared to drop a little more money into it. Because this time, they cant just copy & paste factions for DLC, as they did with Attila. But then the game needs to be actually presentable at launch.
Post by: Neonivek on October 22, 2015, 05:50:59 pm
CA decided to put Chaos behind launch day DLC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d28HkXgjWA
I am kind of sick and tired of the nickel and diming of this series. Who do they think they are? Paradox?
Post by: Mech#4 on October 22, 2015, 09:37:31 pm
Looking at the price on Steam, and the current exchange rate, Warhammer: Total War is about $88 AUD to preorder. A fair amount but less then the usual $100 - $120 games can cost in Australia on launch. While I may preorder the game, my decision will be make much closer to the release date.
There is a few different version being offered. Standard version, Limited Edition version and "High King" Edition.
"High King" edition comes with various objects such as a map, drinking horn, art book, ring, pendant, metal box, guide an the DLC. Though, it is only available in listed countries, of which, Australia isn't one of them. All editions come with the Chaos DLC when preordered.
While I'm all for art books, the rest of the stuff tends to just sit around my room collecting dust.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 22, 2015, 09:53:38 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 22, 2015, 10:03:26 pm
Empire: Orcs and Goblins:
Emperor Karl Franz Grimgor Ironhide
Balthazar Gelt Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet (I think)
Dwarves: Vampire Counts:
High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer Mannfred von Carstein
Ungrim Ironfist the Slayer King Not announced yet.
The lord choices are tending to be one melee focused lord and one more magic focused lord. Mannfred is more of a mage from what I know of him.
Post by: umiman on October 22, 2015, 10:22:30 pm
Is this guy so invincible he managed to live long enough to be a king?
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 22, 2015, 10:26:02 pm
A slayer king? Don't slayers really, really, really want to die in battle?
Is this guy so invincible he managed to live long enough to be a king?
*sigh* Here. (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ungrim_Ironfist)
Brush up on your lore, nerds!!!
Post by: Teneb on October 23, 2015, 08:58:42 am
Other factions have at least two lords.It might also be that the 4 base factions will also have a third, unannounced leader too.
Empire: Orcs and Goblins:
Emperor Karl Franz Grimgor Ironhide
Balthazar Gelt Supreme Patriarch of the Colleges of Magic Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet (I think)
Dwarves: Vampire Counts:
High King Thorgrim Grudgebearer Mannfred von Carstein
Ungrim Ironfist the Slayer King Not announced yet.
The lord choices are tending to be one melee focused lord and one more magic focused lord. Mannfred is more of a mage from what I know of him.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 23, 2015, 09:49:45 am
Post by: sambojin on October 23, 2015, 10:18:12 pm
quotey thing:
That looks pretty impressive for a DLC. No doubt there'll be other mechanics, etc to go along with the unit list. This is chaos too. So a lot of those units come in five different flavours due to marks/gods. That's a hell of a lot of unit styles. It's a pity Vardek Crom wasn't on the Lords list, but that's just personal preference.
I'll probably get this if they include "The Dreaded Wo" on a map somewhere (coolest name for any non-greenskin tribe, ever).
I guess I probably will be a paying customer of this particular brothel.
Post by: puke on October 24, 2015, 12:30:22 am
This is chaos too. So a lot of those units come in five different flavours due to marks/gods.
They might just do the "Chaos Undivided" thing.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 24, 2015, 12:53:28 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 24, 2015, 12:54:33 am
In developing news, people are not exactly happy over the pre-order DLC situation with the official video by Creative Assembly currently sitting at 13,682 dislikes to 2,352 likes. It will be interesting to see whether the situation will change Creative Assembly's plans. Myself, I have no problem waiting for a year or two and buying the game on sale with all released DLC included. Or buying the game after release if it works well and waiting for a DLC pack to go on sale.
I doubt people are sick and tired ENOUGH. EA has been ripping people off for years and they haven't paid for it at all beyond being all but labeled EVIL.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 24, 2015, 01:04:02 am
In developing news, people are not exactly happy over the pre-order DLC situation with the official video by Creative Assembly currently sitting at 13,682 dislikes to 2,352 likes. It will be interesting to see whether the situation will change Creative Assembly's plans. Myself, I have no problem waiting for a year or two and buying the game on sale with all released DLC included. Or buying the game after release if it works well and waiting for a DLC pack to go on sale.
I doubt people are sick and tired ENOUGH. EA has been ripping people off for years and they haven't paid for it at all beyond being all but labeled EVIL.
I don't think it need be instantaneous. If a few people get dismayed every time, the effects will be felt several years from now. I look at the list of recent games on Steam and none of them are from Electronic Arts. Mostly due to them only having their games on Origin but the last game I bought from EA was "Mass Effect 2".
Post by: Astral on October 24, 2015, 02:41:39 am
Added to the fact that in some cases, it may never even release in a viable state, and with digital distribution platforms making distribution a trivial affair, there's very little reason to spend $50-60 for something that I wouldn't get for 6 months.
I'd personally wait for the price to drop, for the bugs to get ironed out, and (preferably) hope for mods to come and clean up what the developers can't for the purpose of selling as many copies as possible, if I don't make those changes myself.
That's just my two cents on it. Time to go play some Shogun Total War, or maybe the Zelda Total War mod. I was tempted by this at first, but seeing they're locking what's basically a core race as day one DLC really put me off the idea. More a fan of the 40k setting anyway.
Post by: sambojin on October 24, 2015, 02:56:13 am
You'd have to be fucking idiot. It's not like there's a discount. There's discounts later though. And if there's a "pre-order" only bonus, it means it's a crap-box/unsupported game without decent publisher/company backing anyway in the long term, but was such an "edge product" that they needed cash upfront to continue to "make a good game". Pre-order content walls are bullshit. They just sold you hopes and dreams (those hopes and dreams include "Wow. I hope I get money out of people before we even have a viable product.")
If it's good DLC, or stuff you like, then cool. Buy it. But never pre-order a game for DLC. That's stupid.
Kickstarter, for the right games, yeah. That I can understand. But pre-order is bullshit.
Never pre-order anything. Unless you're a fucken idiot. You can buy the DLC later if the game is any good.
Post by: Neonivek on October 24, 2015, 02:57:10 am
It's not like there's a discount.
It actually is usually the opposite. It is marked up and a few weeks later BOOM! ten dollars off forever.
Post by: sambojin on October 24, 2015, 03:05:46 am
I plan on buying Total War: Warhammer. And the Chaos DLC (even if zero-day DLC is a shitty practice).
But pre-order? Hah!
I'll see what the game is like first. There's people who's job it is to tell me their views on it.
I'm not paying before then. We all know how Rome 2 was.
Post by: Astral on October 24, 2015, 03:12:27 am
It's amazing that they've jacked the price back up to $60 for a two year old game though.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 24, 2015, 05:18:26 am
I like Total War franchise but this DLC whoring is starting to turn me off regarding them. I wish there was a competitor, but they are pretty much the only one on the field in their specific niche. (Strategic campaign + tactical battles)
Post by: Antioch on October 24, 2015, 09:19:31 am
Battle and campaign AI basically hasn't improved since Rome 1.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 24, 2015, 10:12:40 am
Post by: Majestic7 on October 24, 2015, 10:37:00 am
I really think Total Wars are partially stagnant, only improving on graphics and similar surface, because they have no competition. If there was at least some competition with ideas of their own, it would force them to innovate and progress. Now they are content being the big fish in their small pond without any challengers.
Post by: Neonivek on October 24, 2015, 11:10:35 am
Yeah, the shitty diplomacy really grind my gears. Oh you are a one province minor state and you want to attack me because I'm a great empire instead of say, accepting the non-aggression and trade agreement I offer because I could crush you like a bug? Just stupid bullshit. At least Warhamster is filled with grimdark idiocy anyway, so idiotic diplomacy fits the genre.
I really think Total Wars are partially stagnant, only improving on graphics and similar surface, because they have no competition. If there was at least some competition with ideas of their own, it would force them to innovate and progress. Now they are content being the big fish in their small pond without any challengers.
You forgot the part where the AI cheats and this minor state suddenly sends up three full stacks against you.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 24, 2015, 01:13:13 pm
Post by: Stuebi on October 24, 2015, 01:17:52 pm
My biggest issue with the series, since around Empire ToW, has been the subpar Quality the games come out in, before being patched into shape. Paradox also pulls that sh*t, but at least they have the excuse of being a comparetively small studio. But CA has absolutely no right to deliver games like Empire, Napoleon or Rome 2 in the state they were in. Rome was GARBAGE on release. Unoptimized, buggy, slow. The DLC was also really fking lazy, because there are around 3 archetypes of factions in Rome, Barbarians, romans and miscelanous. And for each DLC they just took the standard units of that archetype, gave them one or two special units, and a faction trait. Voila, 10 bucks please. You can get way better expansions via Mods. It's the same thing like with Elder Scrolls. Where the base game makes you lukewarm at best, and has to be patched, modded and whatnot before you can actually enjoy it.
I can deal with Pre-Order and DLC in general, it's becoming the norm either way. But then the game needs to be in top order once it comes out. It needs to be optimized, bugs need to be the exception, and the DLC needs to be something that actually ADDS to the game, and isnt just the same car with a different color.
It would be a boon if the industry in general takes some pointers from Witcher 3 in this regard. But as was established, CA has no competitors in the field. Especially now that it's WARHAMMER Total War.
The only hope I have, Rome 2 was a mess on release. There was a big sh*tstorm and a lot of complaints and appearantly quite a few refunds. I'm pressing my thumbs that they want to avoid something like that again, and thus put a little more effort into hammering the game into shape, before it comes out.
PS: The diplomacy in Shogun 2 was a little weird due to Realm Divide, sure. But I had no problems with it before hand. The AI gauged their strength against mine and usually acted accordingly.
Post by: Teneb on October 24, 2015, 05:18:52 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on October 24, 2015, 07:40:01 pm
Post by: Stuebi on October 24, 2015, 11:51:45 pm
Concerning release problems, CA at least seems to have learned from Rome 2 about that, as Attila had few big problems on release and they were patched pretty fast. So there's hope on that front.
I dont count Attila, because Attila was basically Rome 2 2.0. They allready had the stuff they needed, the big issues in Rome 2 were allready fixed and it was basically what Rome SHOULD have been on Release. It says absolutely nothing about their Release Policy, except that they took our money twice before actually handing out a decent game.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on October 26, 2015, 05:02:29 am
Post by: Mech#4 on December 03, 2015, 11:37:57 am
A new gameplay video has been released, covering the campaign map and the Greenskins along with information about lord skill trees and items, the "Fightiness" system for the Greenskins, how the Legendary Lord quest lines work on the campaign map, as well as how armies can move underground.
(http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/12/03/total-war-warhammer-campaign-2/)
There's also some flybys of Bretonnia, Sylvania, Border Princes, and Norsca. A bit of a mention too of a corrupt land system for the Vampire Counts.
The game is looking quite nice. There is a good attention to detail with settlements changing style if they're captured by Dwarves or Greenskins, areas of the map that influence battles as well as a wide variety of terrain types for battles to take place in.
Other things that were released in the meantime:
Empire Army List (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/The_Empire_Army_Roster)
Night Goblin introduction video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fI_tiWg002k&feature=youtu.be)
Grimgor Ironhide Campaign Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbvY_fij9E8&feature=youtu.be)
As an addition, since it is still a rather large issue with the game itself, there is a article on Eurogamer with a short response from CA about the negative feedback from the Chaos Warrior pre-order DLC announcement.
A rather important note in the article is as follows: (http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-12-03-total-war-developer-disheartened-by-pre-order-dlc-reaction)
"It all comes down to trust. Eurogamer, along with other publications (and those dastardly YouTubers), will be in a position to review and talk about the game ahead of launch. The embargo, we've been told, will lift prior to the game's release date. If you're wary of pre-ordering the game, we'd suggest you wait until that happens."
While CA's response is rather neutral, saying they'll look to change the practice for future games, the allowance for reviews to be released before the game's release rather then an embargo until after release will hopefully give people food for thought on whether it will be worth to pre-order or not.
Whether I do or not will probably depend on the price I can buy it before release. JB Hifi here in Australia tends to be cheapest so I'll be looking towards that. There is also the issue of performance and bugs that will hopefully be addressed by the pre-release reviews.
Post by: umiman on December 03, 2015, 12:00:52 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 03, 2015, 12:14:24 pm
I will play it, but I won't buy it.Why are people so proud to announce this in a public place?
Post by: GiglameshDespair on December 03, 2015, 02:17:41 pm
Because they're sticking it to the man! Take that, corporate!I will play it, but I won't buy it.Why are people so proud to announce this in a public place?
Post by: Sirus on December 03, 2015, 02:54:11 pm
They're also risking trouble for/from Toady. You aren't supposed to be quite so open about illegal activities here, lest you get warned, muted, or banhammered :VBecause they're sticking it to the man! Take that, corporate!I will play it, but I won't buy it.Why are people so proud to announce this in a public place?
Post by: kulik on December 03, 2015, 03:42:49 pm
They're also risking trouble for/from Toady. You aren't supposed to be quite so open about illegal activities here, lest you get warned, muted, or banhammered :VBecause they're sticking it to the man! Take that, corporate!I will play it, but I won't buy it.Why are people so proud to announce this in a public place?
Maybe he will get it as a gift? ...Christmas is coming.
Post by: umiman on December 03, 2015, 03:52:21 pm
Do people gift pre-orders? Is that a thing you can do?They're also risking trouble for/from Toady. You aren't supposed to be quite so open about illegal activities here, lest you get warned, muted, or banhammered :VBecause they're sticking it to the man! Take that, corporate!I will play it, but I won't buy it.Why are people so proud to announce this in a public place?
Maybe he will get it as a gift? ...Christmas is coming.
Post by: Teneb on December 03, 2015, 04:06:25 pm
Post by: boki on December 03, 2015, 04:10:48 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 03, 2015, 04:45:26 pm
fakeedit: I really hope this one will be good though.
Post by: umiman on December 03, 2015, 05:13:38 pm
Campaign gameplay video. Looks quite nice.
Post by: Teneb on December 03, 2015, 06:06:16 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTQGv3n2PuwI thought Mech#4 had posted it, but it was only the CGI stuff. Yeah, the campaign map looks good, if nothing else.
Campaign gameplay video. Looks quite nice.
Post by: TempAcc on December 03, 2015, 06:26:35 pm
Post by: lordcooper on December 03, 2015, 07:31:19 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 03, 2015, 08:33:40 pm
Post by: Digital Hellhound on December 05, 2015, 07:17:14 am
Post by: Mech#4 on December 09, 2015, 08:58:08 am
Dwarf faction unit list. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Dwarf_Army_Roster)
There's also this blog post about buildings from Creative Assembly that also has some information about the land corruption mechanics that the Warriors of Chaos and Vampire Counts have. It mentions that, at least for the Warriors of Chaos, "Forbidden cults will spring up and formerly law-abiding citizens could soon be at each other’s’ throats." It also covers the resources and how the different factions will make use of them. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Building_blog)
Post by: lordcooper on January 19, 2016, 10:37:11 am
tl;dr Badlands and holds can only occupied by dwarfs or orcs, Norsca can only be occupied by the Norscans, Chaos is fully 'hordelike' without settlements and the rest can be occupied by the rest. The intent is to stick to lore a bit and make alliances/raiding/razing more of a thing instead of just growing your blob. I am very cautiously optimistic.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 19, 2016, 10:42:32 am
Wait so Border Princes and Brettonia are a thing now? Or are they basically neutral types until the DLC come out.
Post by: lordcooper on January 19, 2016, 10:46:55 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 19, 2016, 10:54:44 am
Seems Skaven won't be in this game, which is a pity but I can understand they'd likely need either more of the southern lands, or Lustria.
Post by: lordcooper on January 19, 2016, 11:01:22 am
More info on units. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/3sux1e/)
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on January 19, 2016, 11:09:53 am
Post by: Mech#4 on January 19, 2016, 08:58:41 pm
The basic gist of it is settlements are split into different types depending on their owner. Human settlements and Dwarven holds are the two major ones at the moment with Empire, Bretonnia, Border Princes, Kislev and Vampire Counts falling into the former and Dwarves and Greenskins into the latter. Note that Dwarven holds cover not just the mountains but also the Greenskin settlements throughout the badlands as well. There is also a comment that later races will not necessarily follow this system, though I can imagine Skaven following the same mechanics that Greenskins and Dwarves do.
Chaos Warriors cannot capture settlements being nomadic and the Norscan settlements to the north of the empire cannot be captured by anyone due to how inhospitable the area is.
Their explanation makes sense though in my mind it hangs on how threatening things like Norscan raiders, greenskin attacks from the south and other incursions are to prevent the player from feeling that their borders are arbitrary. The screenshot showing the empire razed after a chaos invasion does seem to speak well of the severity of such events.
Post by: umiman on January 19, 2016, 09:29:25 pm
Post by: Retropunch on January 21, 2016, 06:27:55 pm
More than that though, these gameplay reasons don't seem great. There seem to be two choices for settlements - permanently destroy or sacking for money and temporarily bringing down productivity. Their idea is that you could keep some settlements around as cash cows to keep pillaging, at the risk that they might attack you. I don't really see this as a strategic choice though - anything that's potentially dangerous it'll only make sense to destroy, and anything that I can wall off or I'm not worried about I'll just mindlessly pillage ever 10 or so turns.
I just don't see how this is a step forward, and I hate when game companies try to make these steps backwards sound like an improvement instead of just coming out and saying 'look guys, we didn't have time to implement this properly'.
Post by: nenjin on January 21, 2016, 06:34:29 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on January 22, 2016, 12:31:54 am
Post by: lordcooper on January 22, 2016, 10:09:58 am
@nenjin: I'm assuming you never played Attila? Horde factions in that game can make an army 'settle down/pitch camp' whenever they want, losing the ability to move but becoming temporarily analogous to a city. They can expand the horde, grow population, recruit troops, build improvements etc but have the advantage of their 'cities' being heavily armed and mobile. Of course this makes offence a little riskier too, because you're not just attacking with army #5, you're marching what's essentially your capital city right up to Rome. You can still raze/sack/subjugate/liberate cities you attack, just not take them for yourself. I see no reason to assume Chaos won't work this way too.
Post by: Kruniac on January 22, 2016, 10:22:35 am
I will play it, but I won't buy it.
This. I don't buy anything from CA, at least not until a year after release when everything is patched.
That having been said, I'm a huge CA fan. No one makes the games that they do, and I love the TW series.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 22, 2016, 11:30:30 am
@Retropunch: The thing is, those two choices offer more variety than TW normally does. While technically I have the option to raze/loot etc in Attila it's hardly ever the optimal choice. The efficient way to play is just to occupy absolutely everything you can, taking a few turns out to fix public order and raise money/troops every now and again. Removing that 'obviously pick this' option means I'll actually need to deal with other factions long term, be that through diplomacy or scorched earth or farming them. Another possible benefit of this could be that it eliminates one of my favourite strategies. Expanding my territory all the way in one direction so that I can then move all my troops to the other side of my territory for a big push, with the majority of my land being safe. Now there will always be dwarfs/orcs/whatever in them there hills so I'll need to split my forces throughout the whole game.
This is a point I've seen brought up and I do agree with it quite a bit. It is true in the previous Total War games that I have rarely done little more than wage war and capture enemy settlements if they become a problem. Sacking I do occasionally when I've been needing the money early on but later, taking the city was more feasible because it gave a point to recruit new units and rest while walking through enemy territory.
It could also add some interesting logistics in later expansions. If the Vampire Counts can take and settle cities in Araby belonging to the Tomb Kings, you've got to march through the badlands, fending off orcs, without any towns to rest at before you arrive, or go by sea which is a difficult option for Sylvania being landlocked.
You've also got to deal with neighbours that you can't just roll over. If your empire can only get so big, other factions remain a threat for longer without the player being able to raise heaps of full armies with the large income that comes from controlling most of the map.
Post by: Retropunch on January 24, 2016, 07:24:52 am
I'm still quite interested though, they might be able to pull it off and it could (as Mech#4 has put) mean that the game keeps you engaged for longer.
Post by: umiman on February 08, 2016, 03:43:12 am
http://i.imgur.com/lpOUUed.png
(Probably because of Games Workshop)
Post by: Man of Paper on February 08, 2016, 04:25:43 am
I only just learned that this Total War will not have any mod support whatsoever from CA.
http://i.imgur.com/lpOUUed.png
(Probably because of Games Workshop)
And now I am emulating your avatar.
Though I think we all kinda expected that, deep down.
Post by: umiman on February 08, 2016, 04:46:19 am
I was digging up info on Total War: Atilla mods and that came up. It made me really sad to learn that the LotR mods for Atilla can't come to Warhammer like they wanted.I only just learned that this Total War will not have any mod support whatsoever from CA.
http://i.imgur.com/lpOUUed.png
(Probably because of Games Workshop)
And now I am emulating your avatar.
Though I think we all kinda expected that, deep down.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 08, 2016, 05:22:55 am
Post by: Mech#4 on February 10, 2016, 09:56:44 pm
Interesting things to note is that apparently factions like Savage Orcs will be roaming bands rather than minor factions with provinces. Also, Vampire Counts have control of Mousillon in Bretonnia and the map includes Kislev, Estalia and Tilia.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 11, 2016, 11:00:01 am
Post by: Sirus on February 11, 2016, 11:50:36 am
Savage OrcsIs that anything like Wet Water?
Post by: lordcooper on February 11, 2016, 12:02:12 pm
Savage OrcsIs that anything like Wet Water?
Nah, it's much drier.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 11, 2016, 12:04:49 pm
Savage orcs are orcs which forgo any kind of technology, even the limit types that orcs usually use. No metal armour or weapons, no catapults or bows. They're weapons are made from sharpened rocks tied to sticks and instead of armour they wear feathers and woad-like warpaint which, because of orc belief, actually acts as protection like armour.
Post by: sambojin on February 12, 2016, 06:42:11 am
Post by: scriver on February 12, 2016, 06:46:09 am
Post by: Neonivek on February 12, 2016, 08:00:34 am
I mean... Chaos is going to be Day 1 DLC (ohh sorry I mean pre-order bonus) and they are a major faction of the Warhammer universe.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 12, 2016, 08:16:53 am
It is time for competitors in the genre. Maybe we could bribe CD Project Red into doing a Total Warish game in the Witcher universe.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 12, 2016, 08:30:05 am
The reason they don't want any mods is likely because they don't want people making mods of future DLC they are making since... of course... this is another nickel and dime property where they charge you for every little thing.
I mean... Chaos is going to be Day 1 DLC (ohh sorry I mean pre-order bonus) and they are a major faction of the Warhammer universe.
Or because GW doesn't allow any game series featuring their IP to be modded, considering that Total War Attilla has a modding kit...
Post by: Mech#4 on February 12, 2016, 08:36:39 am
Post by: Teneb on February 12, 2016, 08:40:44 am
I think this is it, yeah. While there are mods for other warhammer games, I've yet to see any get actual mod support. Meanwhile, CA has done some support for mods for their titles (how much depends on the title). Not that any of this will stop more determined modders, like Mech#4 mentioned.The reason they don't want any mods is likely because they don't want people making mods of future DLC they are making since... of course... this is another nickel and dime property where they charge you for every little thing.
I mean... Chaos is going to be Day 1 DLC (ohh sorry I mean pre-order bonus) and they are a major faction of the Warhammer universe.
Or because GW doesn't allow any game series featuring their IP to be modded, considering that Total War Attilla has a modding kit...
Post by: sambojin on February 12, 2016, 09:54:34 am
A GW license doesn't mean no mod support, it's just the reverse of the early grass-roots of the GW TT systems (make up whatever you want if it seems like it'll be fun, we'll provide examples).
Then it changed to "We'll crappily codify and systemize the hell out of it. But we expect you to tweak it properly, because there's some really broken shit in there" for late 6th/7th/8th WHFB and computer releases around that time (including DoW1 and expansions for WH40k).
There's now a third type of GW game, in the computer age of licenses/games. Now balance, play-types and gameplay comes first (because it has to in new PC releases these days, or heresy!), and modding gets tacked on if it's a success. Or at least, we can hope.
Step 1: Make successful, profitable and "fun to play" game.
Step 2: (?) (or add modding support)
Step 3: Profit! For years and years to come.
We don't even have step one yet for Warhammer TW, but it'll be there eventually. I hope it lasts longer, and is done better than DoW1 was. Because that'd be awesome.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 12, 2016, 02:04:12 pm
Quote
Yeah, Dawn of War 1 got no mod support at all, and Ultimate Apocalypse is totally a figment of your imagination (not one of the reasons why DoW1 is *still* selling pretty well on steam sales, considering the market glut of titles).
It didn't get any mod support, it was handcrafted through an outside system and people had to create their own tools to mod the system itself, Relic provided no actual modding tools.
People may have modded it, that doesn't mean it had any support from the actual company to do so.
Post by: scriver on February 12, 2016, 02:38:14 pm
Post by: sambojin on February 17, 2016, 10:12:40 pm
It wasn't exactly point-and-click, but quite a lot of work got done between the modding community and the developers over the years.
Anyway, my point stands. A GW IP doesn't mean no modding. It's a developer/publisher thing. If anything, all licensed GW games can be considered a mod of their IP. Which seems to include the words space, marine, chaos, blah and the english language. They've got a huge legal team for this stuff. One that they seem to use excessively for no good end.
But they don't really say "no mods for software licensed by a studio on our IP". They may not even know what it means.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 29, 2016, 08:59:39 am
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/168965/new-gameplay-azhag-s-ard-armour-quest-battle)
It shows some spells of the lores of death and heavens, various units including Bretonnian yeoman, men-at-arms as well as trebuchets.
Also: I would like to add that I've noticed while looking over the Steam store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/364360), as well as the page on JB HI-FI (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/games-consoles/platforms/pc/total-war-warhammer/711209/), that the Chaos Warriors DLC pack doesn't seem to be listed anymore as a pre-order bonus. I have not seen any mentions of this in official locations but the mentions of this don't seem to be present anymore. Anyone got other websites they can see this on as well?
Edit: I also followed the imbedded link in the Chaos Warriors announcement trailer, but the page on the Total War website no longer exists.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 29, 2016, 09:18:17 am
Post by: umiman on February 29, 2016, 12:37:33 pm
Also: I would like to add that I've noticed while looking over the Steam store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/364360), as well as the page on JB HI-FI (https://www.jbhifi.com.au/games-consoles/platforms/pc/total-war-warhammer/711209/), that the Chaos Warriors DLC pack doesn't seem to be listed anymore as a pre-order bonus. I have not seen any mentions of this in official locations but the mentions of this don't seem to be present anymore. Anyone got other websites they can see this on as well?Heh.
Edit: I also followed the imbedded link in the Chaos Warriors announcement trailer, but the page on the Total War website no longer exists.
Post by: Teneb on February 29, 2016, 01:57:44 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on March 02, 2016, 10:41:38 pm
Anyway, in other news a screenshot was released covering some Bretonnian knights looking resplendent on horses and pegasi. As well as an ostentatious castle in the distance. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/1/17/Bret_horses.jpg)
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 02, 2016, 10:49:53 pm
Post by: lordcooper on March 03, 2016, 07:38:46 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 03, 2016, 09:24:25 am
The price in USD on Steam is still $59.99. Ł40 seems more in line with other pricing, being just under the USD and AUD after conversion.
The DLC thing that I was mentioning earlier seems to have just been a hiccup somewhere. The banner is back on the Steam page.
Edit: Ooooh, I just checked and there's a video up now covering the Dwarfs campaign. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/169122/dwarfs-campaign-walkthrough)
Post by: Puzzlemaker on March 03, 2016, 10:09:08 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on March 04, 2016, 03:21:56 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 04, 2016, 03:49:51 am
As for the grudges system, it seems rather similar to the quest system that was in Rome 2. If you play as Athens and an enemy force goes near Athens you get a quest to defeat them. Other things like raising an army/fleet or taking a settlement near you.
Tying this mechanic into faction happiness is a simple solution that should work quite well. I doubt there would be but it might be nice to have a counter of how many greenskins you need to kill that goes up for every dwarf that is killed. Counting armies, I wouldn't go so far as settlement population.
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2016, 12:36:21 am
Spoiler: rant about Shogun 2 unit pack (click to show/hide)
Post by: Blargityblarg on March 05, 2016, 08:07:26 am
Spoiler: rant about Shogun 2 unit pack (click to show/hide)
What?
Post by: lordcooper on March 05, 2016, 08:21:46 am
Spoiler: rant about Shogun 2 unit pack (click to show/hide)
What?
It's an incredibly garbled explanation and I'm not sure I understand it either. Certain powerful units are limited in the number you can have at once to help maintain some form of balance. BFEL seems to have taken great offence at this and I think s/he made a disastrous attempt at modding that out, breaking the game in the process due to not really knowing what they were doing. Through some undisclosed and presumably tortuous inner logic, this is somehow the developer's fault.
Is that the gist of it?
Post by: umiman on March 05, 2016, 03:25:01 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 05, 2016, 06:23:23 pm
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2016, 08:23:54 pm
He also apparently doesn't realize there already exist mods that remove that limit.If you know of any, please tell.
I searched through the whole steam workshop, so I presume you mean something on nexus?
I'm mad because I PAID EXTRA MONEY for those units, and while they ARE more powerful, they are balanced in game already with higher costs and requiring specialized facilities. I'll concede that the limit makes sense in MULTIPLAYER, which is presumably why the devs put it in at all, but it makes them effectively useless in the single player campaign.Spoiler: rant about Shogun 2 unit pack (click to show/hide)
What?
It's an incredibly garbled explanation and I'm not sure I understand it either. Certain powerful units are limited in the number you can have at once to help maintain some form of balance. BFEL seems to have taken great offence at this and I think s/he made a disastrous attempt at modding that out, breaking the game in the process due to not really knowing what they were doing. Through some undisclosed and presumably tortuous inner logic, this is somehow the developer's fault.
Is that the gist of it?
I shouldn't have to explain how a 4 unit limit is a bad thing in a Total War game, where you'll be deploying hundreds of units before you even start blobbing.
While my disastrous modding attempt didn't break anything (I conceded defeat when I straight up didn't know where anything was.), for me the game is ALREADY broken due to this, and I can't bring myself to start up a game of it while it's in place.
Post by: Sirus on March 05, 2016, 08:28:04 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 05, 2016, 08:29:33 pm
Unit limits are sensible, especially if there might be historical or lore reasons for their limited numbers. That way you save them for the biggest, most important battles where they'll make more of an impact.
Which frankly... there isn't :P
The limits are just for gameplay reasons alone.
Post by: Sirus on March 05, 2016, 08:31:54 pm
Which is still fine.Unit limits are sensible, especially if there might be historical or lore reasons for their limited numbers. That way you save them for the biggest, most important battles where they'll make more of an impact.
Which frankly... there isn't :P
The limits are just for gameplay reasons alone.
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2016, 08:36:35 pm
Say that AFTER blowing three bucks on your arbitrarily limited units.Which is still fine.Unit limits are sensible, especially if there might be historical or lore reasons for their limited numbers. That way you save them for the biggest, most important battles where they'll make more of an impact.
Which frankly... there isn't :P
The limits are just for gameplay reasons alone.
I posted it in this thread because you never know if something similar will happen to the Chaos DLC in Warhammer, we'll see how fine it is when suddenly the best units are totally useless because theres one of them for every forty million other troops.
Post by: Neonivek on March 05, 2016, 08:39:00 pm
Its existence essentially becomes cosmetic.
I mean these are HARDLY the Sword Saints.
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2016, 08:44:49 pm
Basically the unit is so limited and requires such lengths to get to...And this is why I'm mad.
Its existence essentially becomes cosmetic.
I mean these are HARDLY the Sword Saints.
I bought the pack hoping for some new units I could build interesting strategies around, and what I got was a couple reskins that I could see once a month.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 05, 2016, 09:11:28 pm
Say that AFTER blowing three bucks on your arbitrarily limited units.Which is still fine.Unit limits are sensible, especially if there might be historical or lore reasons for their limited numbers. That way you save them for the biggest, most important battles where they'll make more of an impact.
Which frankly... there isn't :P
The limits are just for gameplay reasons alone.
I posted it in this thread because you never know if something similar will happen to the Chaos DLC in Warhammer, we'll see how fine it is when suddenly the best units are totally useless because theres one of them for every forty million other troops.
Might be, as a fan of Warhammer lore it'd be baffling to see for example more Grail Knights then Knights of the Realm or Knights Errant or Demigryphs all over for Empire.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 05, 2016, 09:25:51 pm
I don't think the army composition like in tabletop will be present, such as Bretonnians having to take a banner bearer or Skaven having to attach weapon teams to clanrat squads. Whether the limitations will be present on special or rare units like trolls, giants, slayers, ironbreakers, organ guns and so on I don't know but it seems like there won't be.
It's not an issue to me really. Just because I could build an army of Big Un's doesn't mean I will. If elite units are rarer I usually just build less of them compared to the basic infantry or what not.
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2016, 09:27:38 pm
Post by: Sirus on March 05, 2016, 09:32:13 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on March 05, 2016, 09:45:15 pm
It's just for me the theme of the army is more appealing than the functionality. Most of the time they both coincide with a balanced force (4 velites, 2 slingers, 6 Hastati, 2 Principe, 1 Triarii, 2 Equites, 2 wardogs and general) but an army that was made up of Urban Cohorts or Praetorian guards just looks weird to me and I wouldn't do that. I might have 1 or 2 of them but since they're elite I wouldn't build an army of them.
Post by: Sirus on March 05, 2016, 09:48:47 pm
:P
Post by: BFEL on March 05, 2016, 09:49:11 pm
Doesn't even have to be PRACTICAL.
Plenty games balance awesome units with high maintenence costs and the like, and it fucking works, so WHY THE HELL SHOULDN'T IT BE AN OPTION?
Might as well ask "why should it be an option to actually CONTROL your units when the computer could probably do better"
If you like to, I would like you to have the ability to do so.Also this. You should have the option of building your army the way you want. If you somehow figure out a way to build a functioning army out of a single elite unit type you should be able to.
It's just for me the theme of the army is more appealing than the functionality. Most of the time they both coincide with a balanced force (4 velites, 2 slingers, 6 Hastati, 2 Principe, 1 Triarii, 2 Equites, 2 wardogs and general) but an army that was made up of Urban Cohorts or Praetorian guards just looks weird to me and I wouldn't do that. I might have 1 or 2 of them but since they're elite I wouldn't build an army of them.
I'm not saying it should be easy or unbalanced, I'm just saying I WANT TO BE ABLE TO TRY.
Post by: Sirus on March 05, 2016, 10:02:10 pm
High-tier elite units should be the shock troops, the special ops of your armies in games like Total War. If a game devolves to each side spamming top-level units at each other much of the tactical goodness is lost and, frankly, the game becomes less fun.
Look at Dawn of War, for example. Each army has ultimate units that they typically only get one of at a time. These things cause dread in the enemy and are capable of wiping the floor with lesser units, to the point where only specialized grunts, or superior numbers of high-tier units, or other ultimates can take them down.
Once you mod it to remove the unit caps however...every match eventually gets to the point where for many armies there's zero point in building anything but ultimates. They're just that good. The specialized grunts tend to be fragile and the non-ultimate elites often have their own caps. Having an army of Baneblades go up against an army of Monoliths is cool at first but you quickly realize that much of the fun is gone. The game becomes a spamfest where whoever can pump out ultimate units the fastest, wins.
Post by: Man of Paper on March 05, 2016, 10:54:12 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on March 05, 2016, 10:57:19 pm
On the other hand, if I recall correctly the devs were able to deal with that through a mix of buffing the weaker units and making it tougher to buy & maintain the top-tiers. That is, I don't think they ever put in a unit cap. It was still possible to end up with too many in large worlds / long games (where the resources necessary to raise those sorts of armies was possible), but it wasn't as common as before.
Post by: umiman on March 05, 2016, 11:23:44 pm
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2016, 01:23:46 am
You're the type of person who gives themselves unlimited resources, aren't you?No I'm the type of person who, if they manage to earn large amounts of resources, actually expects to be able to spend those on what I feel will work best for me.
If I've gained enough resources to afford to spam my shock troops/spec ops, I should damn well be able to do that.
Total War is hardly the type of game where using one type of unit is going to break all the things. Are certain units better then others? Most definately! Are there suddenly no uses for other units because of that? No.
A few posts ago you criticized (jokingly granted) Mech#4 for using velites instead of archers, because archers are better. Doesn't stop Mech from having fun deploying those inferior units does it?
So why should those who like to deploy the superior units have their hands slapped? Would you like to play where you can only recruit 4 archers because they happen to be better then velites?
Perhaps you feel we should just do away with the player choosing their army composition altogether? Because that's where this arbitrary limiting is headed.
Silly player trying to actually develop a strategy or mess around, go back in your hole and command the armys we tell you to.
I've noted MULTIPLE TIMES already that I'm not asking for some be all end all units. I've noted that I feel that superior units should be balanced by expenses to set up and maintain.
There definately should be times where you have to send out inferior units because you just can't afford anything else, but those situations should arise organically in the gameplay, not be shoehorned in by the developer.
Post by: Neonivek on March 06, 2016, 01:30:13 am
This is about the game giving artificial limitations on units for no other reason then to put artificial limitations.
Sure it would be weird to have super elite units make up an entire army all over the world... but you know what? They limit that by price, availability (Can't hatch Griffons everywhere), and training times.
Instead the game is going "Nope you have four griffon lances and that is all you can ever get until they die. Why? PSH because F-U that is why."
It is to me the game breaking its own rules arbitrarily. It sounds like someone's lousy mod rather then official DLC.
Sure it doesn't bug me as much, because it was rip off DLC and I knew it was rip off DLC, but I at least recognize that it is a flaw.
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2016, 01:32:05 am
My arguement is doomed :P
What the fuck is even going on in this thread.still waiting on you to link the mod that makes everything all better btw.
Post by: Neonivek on March 06, 2016, 01:47:35 am
They think you are arguing about having limitations because your a whiny baby who has no life and probably cries whenever his lollypop gets sand on it.
I think you are arguing about having artificial limitations for something you had to pay extra for in and out of game.
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2016, 01:54:08 am
I think you are arguing about having artificial limitations for something you had to pay extra for in and out of game.THANK YOU.
And just to be super extra clear the last post was a joke. Thanks Neo.
Post by: umiman on March 06, 2016, 02:13:48 am
Ask nicely and don't make a grammatical error.What the fuck is even going on in this thread.still waiting on you to link the mod that makes everything all better btw.
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2016, 02:57:40 am
Could you please find it in your heart to link the mod that would make me not a ball of hatred?Ask nicely and don't make a grammatical error.What the fuck is even going on in this thread.still waiting on you to link the mod that makes everything all better btw.
Post by: umiman on March 06, 2016, 03:37:07 am
No.Could you please find it in your heart to link the mod that would make me not a ball of hatred?Ask nicely and don't make a grammatical error.What the fuck is even going on in this thread.still waiting on you to link the mod that makes everything all better btw.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on March 06, 2016, 03:38:45 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 06, 2016, 04:01:27 am
There is not much more information about Warhammer: Total War to cover at this point. There was an event that several people attended to play through the "Ambush at the Thundering Falls" battle and I did see one person mention they also got to see the Greenskins vs Bretonnia battle again, at a higher graphical level than what was shown in the recent video.
Other than that, the next big information thing should be on or around the 15th of March which is when people are expecting the first information about the Vampire Counts to be divulged.
Post by: BFEL on March 06, 2016, 04:48:50 pm
It didn't fucking work of course, because I can't be happy, but thanks for taking time out of your day to try.
@umiman
Don't know what I did to piss you off, but sorry I guess.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 08, 2016, 10:40:33 am
Release date has been moved back a month until the 24th of May to give time for reviewers to play, as well as work on the game more I assume. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/169342/total-war-warhammer-specs-and-release-date)
Spoiler: Also: System specifications: (click to show/hide)
Creative Assembly also mentioned that Warhammer: Total War will be 64bit unlike Attila, Rome II and other previous games. Specifications can be read on their wiki here. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Specs)
Post by: Retropunch on March 08, 2016, 01:38:10 pm
Anyway, the specs seem good, although I don't really know why they've put the min-specs at 15fps. I can't imagine playing a game at that low!
Post by: Digital Hellhound on March 08, 2016, 01:53:25 pm
Also I totally missed this is coming out so soon. Excellent. Would've been even nicer if it hadn't been pushed back, though, but oh well.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on March 08, 2016, 06:14:41 pm
Post by: Neonivek on March 08, 2016, 06:22:12 pm
Honestly I am glad they have the balls to push it back instead of releasing a buggy product.
I hate this statement so much. Not you Puzzlemaker your fine.
We now live in a world where it takes guts to release a horribly broken and non-functional game. Instead of the other way around.
Post by: Teneb on March 08, 2016, 07:39:57 pm
We have for almost the last century lived in a world where corporations have thought of their bottom line above all else. All that has changed is that now game studios are owned by those corporations.Honestly I am glad they have the balls to push it back instead of releasing a buggy product.
I hate this statement so much. Not you Puzzlemaker your fine.
We now live in a world where it takes guts to release a horribly broken and non-functional game. Instead of the other way around.
Post by: Neonivek on March 08, 2016, 07:41:33 pm
We have for almost the last century lived in a world where corporations have thought of their bottom line above all else. All that has changed is that now game studios are owned by those corporations.Honestly I am glad they have the balls to push it back instead of releasing a buggy product.
I hate this statement so much. Not you Puzzlemaker your fine.
We now live in a world where it takes guts to release a horribly broken and non-functional game. Instead of the other way around.
And?
Post by: Teneb on March 08, 2016, 07:42:33 pm
What I am saying is, this is not about games. It's about corporations in general.We have for almost the last century lived in a world where corporations have thought of their bottom line above all else. All that has changed is that now game studios are owned by those corporations.Honestly I am glad they have the balls to push it back instead of releasing a buggy product.
I hate this statement so much. Not you Puzzlemaker your fine.
We now live in a world where it takes guts to release a horribly broken and non-functional game. Instead of the other way around.
And?
Post by: Neonivek on March 08, 2016, 07:43:01 pm
What I am saying is, this is not about games. It's about corporations in general.We have for almost the last century lived in a world where corporations have thought of their bottom line above all else. All that has changed is that now game studios are owned by those corporations.Honestly I am glad they have the balls to push it back instead of releasing a buggy product.
I hate this statement so much. Not you Puzzlemaker your fine.
We now live in a world where it takes guts to release a horribly broken and non-functional game. Instead of the other way around.
And?
And?
Corps have always owned games.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 09, 2016, 04:13:06 am
There were many shitty games made in the Olden Times as well, but at least the motivation wasn't shoveling shit for $$$. (We don't speak about old Atari atrocities.)
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 09, 2016, 06:56:07 pm
There is a great difference between gamers making games for gamers (indy teams and small game companies) and people having nothing do with games producing entertainment product for consumers (big entertainment/game companies). The latter do it only for money, while the first might have other motivations in addition to money.
There were many shitty games made in the Olden Times as well, but at least the motivation wasn't shoveling shit for $$$. (We don't speak about old Atari atrocities.)
Actually aside from Atari there were plenty of crap games for money, this was the era where you had a ton of games frontloaded with the best stuff in order to get you to purchase episodes or other such things, or games in general that were just horrid. We just tend to nostalgically remember the better ones, and hopefully cut out the bad ones like Megaman for PC.
Post by: BFEL on March 09, 2016, 10:02:24 pm
There were many shitty games made in the Olden Times as well, but at least the motivation wasn't shoveling shit for $$$. (We don't speak about old Atari atrocities.)I recently discovered there was a Gauntlet ripoff named Cuntlet. It was literally Gauntlet but infinitely less PC.
If THAT wasn't shoveled in for $$$, then the world is broken.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 10, 2016, 02:00:47 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 15, 2016, 09:43:12 am
Zombies, Skeletons, varghulfs, vargeists, zombie dragons, black knights, grave guard and more. Also shows off some siege battle which ties in with a recent blog post describing the siege battle system in Warhammer: Total War. There was also a picture put up which showed that, along with Mannfred von Carstein, Heinrich Kemmler is going to be present as a legendary lord for the Vampire Counts. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/169798/hienrich-kemmler-confirmed)
Sieges: From the blog post, sieges are being changed in design from previous Total War games. Where in Rome 2 and Attila you could assault a city from any direction, in Warhammer: Total War you have a single direction of assault on the battle map consisting of a thick wall (so units can flank and manoeuvre better) with defensive towers that only shoot forwards and a gate. Beyond this is wide streets for units and cavalry with a central battle square that is the target for assaulting forces (like in Medieval 2).
The single direction assault does sound like a reduction but I quite agree with Creative Assembly's reasoning. I would often only assault one strip of wall for a city in Rome 2 anyway, because splitting your forces up made them less effective. Also, they state that it will allow the A.I. to cope better with attacking and defending.
Another reason, aesthetically, is that it allows the cities to appear larger than they really are. Take Rome in Rome 2 for example, the whole city had to appear on the battle map because you could attack from any direction, this made the city much smaller then it would normally have been. By having a single wall line, the city can stretch beyond the battle map and appear much bigger and grander. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Sieges_and_Siege_AI)
Having seen the problems with the large city battles in previous Total War games (Medieval 2 the A.I. would often get stuck or confused, standing outside your walls, units being a huge pain to position on walls during battle. Big lag during sieges in Rome 2 and Empire when breaching walls) I find this direction to be rather an agreeable one. It also works well for the dwarfs who would really only have one approach to their underground karaks. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/d/d6/TWWH_Emp_Siege_Watermarked.jpg)
I think a question would be can the walls be broken through still using artillery. With the thicker walls this might not be the case since so many more units will be positioned on them. Also, I saw someone mention that the city siege layout reminds them of "Heroes of Might and Magic 3" and I agree that the resemblance is enjoyably similar.
Post by: Drakale on March 15, 2016, 10:29:43 am
Post by: umiman on March 15, 2016, 10:37:41 am
Their field AI was always pretty impressive though, especially on higher difficulties where it was unbound.
So maybe they got too lazy to do the siege AI or they finally gave up, haha.
One thing though is that they'll make sieges in MP a lot more simple. So that kinda sucks.
Post by: lordcooper on March 15, 2016, 10:44:40 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 15, 2016, 10:57:51 am
@umiman: I think I've been able to make use of short comings in the A.I. in nearly all of the Total War games since Rome 1. The biggest issue I remember having in Rome 1, Medieval 2 and Empire was that the enemy A.I. would sometimes get stuck and stand around doing nothing. In Rome 1 and Medieval 2 this would happen if all of their siege weapons, towers and ladders were destroyed. Empire it was more the design of the forts and my access to mortars.
Post by: Stuebi on March 15, 2016, 05:39:38 pm
I remember watching the Orks vs Bretonnia Battle, and the other Showcase battles for that matter, and one thing that struck me is that it seems unit variety in general for races might be a little low.
They have the essentials. Orks had both a melee and a ranged Boyz variant, I could see Black orcs and Boar riders. And then you have the monstrous units (Which seem to be Giants and Trolls for Greenskins). I'm very curious how the entire roster looks tough. I was allready dissapointed that there seems to be no big distinction on Goblins and Orks, and you just recruit both at your leisure. And with Gobbos probably just being Small Orks Statwise, there might not be that much of a motivation for you to actually have Goblin focused armies.
The big plus behind this being a Warhamemr game, for me at least, is being able to play around with all of the silly and awesome stuff each army has. And I really do hope those rosters are big and varied. It would be said if my Greenskin armies literally allways consist of a dozen Boyz, a couple Black Orcs, Boar riders and then one or two Trolls and/or Giants. That's gonna get boring really quickly. Altough I still expect a LOT of mileage to come out of the Legendary Lords.
Post by: sambojin on March 15, 2016, 07:35:24 pm
Total War: Warhammer under games.
TotalWarOfficial channel.
Post by: lordcooper on March 15, 2016, 07:43:15 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 15, 2016, 07:48:00 pm
Post by: sambojin on March 15, 2016, 07:59:19 pm
Post by: sambojin on March 15, 2016, 08:02:03 pm
Post by: sambojin on March 15, 2016, 08:34:58 pm
He should have Dansed some units, and used Manfred more than just 1v1 though. No raises either (although they're available).
3 more hours of stream to go though.
Post by: Teneb on March 15, 2016, 08:37:58 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: sambojin on March 15, 2016, 08:41:38 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on March 15, 2016, 08:47:56 pm
Post by: sambojin on March 16, 2016, 01:01:40 am
I wonder if black knights will have the spirit rider thingy (no terrain penalties) in the full game?
You'd think gob spiders would have it at least.
A decent terrain system with +/-'s to various units is all this really needs to be fun (much like normal Warhammer). But right now terrain seems to be hills with window dressing and the odd objective. It'll probably change before release though.
Post by: umiman on March 16, 2016, 12:33:01 pm
I can't remember seeing any decent woods/forests in any of the games so far. Trees dotted about (even in the orc campaign), but no real defensive features, escarpments, anti-cav or flyer areas.The latest games have super thick forests that make it so even you can barely see in them and cavalry move super slow as they have to constantly move around all the trees.
I wonder if black knights will have the spirit rider thingy (no terrain penalties) in the full game?
You'd think gob spiders would have it at least.
A decent terrain system with +/-'s to various units is all this really needs to be fun (much like normal Warhammer). But right now terrain seems to be hills with window dressing and the odd objective. It'll probably change before release though.
It might be tied to graphics options though. I remember hating to fight in forests simply because it was impossible to see anything. And in Shogun 2 multiplayer, I'd love the maps with the forests as I'd own any player trying to fight me in them (your archers and cannons have no power here!).
Edit: I had an AAR of an MP game involving fog and forests but the image host seems to have died.
I have this though:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's not the best representation, but if you look to the left you can see how dense the forests are. You can fight in them and completely lose track of everything.
Rome has it too, I remember because I'd do MP games with Bay12ers where we'd do nonsense like 10,000 dogs in a forest. Absolutely no idea what's going on.
Post by: sambojin on March 16, 2016, 05:40:04 pm
The giant trees in the test footage are probably just to show off how pretty the trees are up close (or scaled 2x-3x like they seem to be. They tower over everything). They are quite good, I must admit. Saves a tad on frame rate and AI as well.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 16, 2016, 09:16:09 pm
Post by: sambojin on March 17, 2016, 04:35:02 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 17, 2016, 06:01:32 am
Post by: miljan on March 23, 2016, 05:39:55 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8hp08qsnXg
Empire Quest Battle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfireiQOA0Y
Post by: Mech#4 on March 24, 2016, 12:59:00 am
The major points have been videos on siege battles between;
* Vampire Counts and Vampire Counts (Templehof siege)
*Vampire Counts and Dwarfs (Zhufbar)
*Vampire Counts and Orcs and Goblins (Karak Kadrin)
This shows the recently revealed new design of the siege battles as they will function in Warhammer: Total War. This being that sieges will be focused on a single angle of attack with a focus on wall fighting leading to capturing a control square.
From the reveal of siege battles earlier, I do like the styling of the sieges allowing for a grander scale of the city beyond the borders of the map. It helps make the cities seem much bigger than they actually are. I will say however, that looking at the battle maps I find it looks kind of odd having the full battle map with all the fighting conducted in a single corner. It doesn't seem like a very effective use of space.
I understand the space outside of the walls is for your army to start outside the range of the towers, but since all of the fighting is aimed to be on the walls, and I don't think the defenders will sally forth that often, it still seems kind of minimum change-ish? If all the fighting is taking place in 1/2 or 1/4 of the map, the rest of the map is a bit wasted, isn't it?
Sieges can apparently have different shapes to the walls, with small settlements having either no wall (Which leads to a field battle), small size wall (with the 1/4 corner wall like in the Templehof siege) or 1/2 wall on large settlements (like in Karak Kadrin).
One thing I've seem people mentioning a few times they'd like would be multiple walls to assault, like in Medieval 2: Total War where you have an outer wall and an inner wall. I remember the problems I had with those was manoeuvring siege equipment through the gates and streets to breach the inner walls but with the wider streets present in Warhammer: Total War maybe it could work better.
Moving on, there is also another campaign quest battle, The Amulet of Sea Gold between the Empire (player) and Vampire Counts (A.I.) with Balthazar Gelt as the legendary lord. This video shows off the empire troops as well as some lore of metal spells.
Post by: umiman on April 03, 2016, 05:08:22 pm
Since I have nothing better to do, let's do some theorycrafting.
Empire:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dwarfs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Greenskins:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Vampire Counts:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on April 03, 2016, 10:16:37 pm
(Explaination to Marching: In tabletop, units can either move, charge or march. Marching doubles their movement distance but prevents them from engaging. Usually, armies cannot march units within, I think, 4 inches of an enemy. Dwarfs can march regardless of how close they are to enemies).
Vampire Counts, I agree. Meat shields is something that is kind of difficult to do in games like this. Why spend points on a slow, weak unit when you could get something stronger and more useful? Summoning zombies in the way of an enemy charge to blunt it is one tactic I've seen. I think Vampire Counts will rely much more on mass routing the enemy than grinding in melee. Combined charges from fear and terror causing units will have a large effect on morale.
We've also seen some Etheral units with the Hexwraiths, mounted ghosts they cause Terror. Etheral reduces physical damage by 75% unless it's from magical weapons or attacks. It also allows them to ignore terrain movement effects.
I think the Witch Hunter's "Accuse" ability does extra damage to undead and chaos units. I believe in tabletop it lowers the defence of a single model.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on April 03, 2016, 11:37:30 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 04, 2016, 01:26:53 am
Someone on the official forums did suggest they could be done like wardogs, in that they replenish their numbers after combat. Maybe, but it seems like they're very easy to recruit and raise more on the campaign map.
Post by: Teneb on April 04, 2016, 10:28:14 am
Post by: Cruxador on April 04, 2016, 12:26:44 pm
Was it money or just immaturity? I mean, I kind of doubt it was the result of a big marketing team analyzing the target demographics and bla bla. Even if the games were shit, the production culture was different.You seriously think there aren't games like that being made now?
Post by: umiman on April 04, 2016, 03:19:07 pm
Just imagining the summon zombies shit in battle gives me such a boner. It'll be like kisho ninja from Shogun... except there's hundreds of them.
Also all those heroes sound so oddball. Please tell me that the Wight King is basically Skeleton (Baller King) King.
I hope all those meteor and fireball type spells can destroy buildings / walls.
Post by: Teneb on April 04, 2016, 06:52:54 pm
Also all those heroes sound so oddball. Please tell me that the Wight King is basically Skeleton (Baller King) King.Wights are basically pre-Sigmar (so, ancient) skeletons brought to life, some of them (like Krell) former Warriors of Chaos. So yeah, pretty much a skeleton but better.
Spoiler: Basically, this level of badass (click to show/hide)
Post by: sambojin on April 05, 2016, 12:44:43 am
Also all those heroes sound so oddball. Please tell me that the Wight King is basically Skeleton (Baller King) King.Wights are basically pre-Sigmar (so, ancient) skeletons brought to life, some of them (like Krell) former Warriors of Chaos. So yeah, pretty much a skeleton but better.
No, the Skeleton King probably isn't Nagash.
But shit like that would be cool. High King? Meh. Vampire Lords? They'll all be doing this shit for centuries. Emperor? Humies, 'nuff said, they need one or they're screwed. Chaos? It's sort of on their mantle-piece, "this is our reason for existing in WH".
Orc Waaaaagggghhhhh!!!!!? Kind of pretty fucken awesome from the get-go, especially against those toffs. Especially a wolfrider horde from "Da East".
But Nagash? Nah, I don't think the "Skeleton King" is Nagash. Otherwise "shit just got really serious."
(this is with the "WH is dead, long die horrible Sigmar related things" being canon. Holy fuck! If Nagash was pulling some shit, or the Greater greater daemons were, then I'd understand why Sigmar took his toys somewhere else to play. Just couldn't cut it with the big boys. And Nagash strips any crappy MMO stuff to the bone. Original Necromancer! In this world at least, one with true power over life and death. The Skelly King from WoW is like saying the Skelly King from Diablo stands a chance. Good characters, but not the same plot level).
It'd be a glorious thing if there was even a basic outside reference to Nagash spending all his time in his pit giving the WH world "Both Life and Death, outside of any god's power", making Totally Warhammer: Total Warhammery completely canon forever. And not any AoS shite, to any player's mind. He's the only damn "god" that would/could do it, because he likes his toys as much as Sigmar, Tzeentch or Nurgle. But he never left.
It's either that, or AoS was a 'shroom induced hallucination of the future, that is just a standard part of ninja goblin training, whereby rendering it redundant to anything to do with anything (other than ninja goblins, and the training thereof).
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 05, 2016, 07:37:33 am
Post by: Hanzoku on April 05, 2016, 09:04:10 am
Post by: Teneb on April 05, 2016, 09:47:13 am
He was referencing Dota 2's Skeleton King.And asking if the Wight King, NOT the god of spooky, is like that. Wight Kings are a possible hero choice for the VCs both in the tabletop and in Total War.
And besides, Nagash is in the game. Y'know, possessing Azhag's crown. There was even a orc quest battle video where instead of making a speech, Azhag and Nagash just argue with each other (though you only hear Azhag's side).
Post by: umiman on April 05, 2016, 10:48:17 am
But yeah, I was referring to skeleton King aka baller King aka ballin out of control aka the only King that matters aka pressing ceremonial issues.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2016, 11:30:15 am
Not to write it off completely, I would like to see such characters in the game. One I'd like in particular would be Konrad von Carstein who's dead in the current time period but an insane, melee monster of a vampire would be a nice offset to Mannfred and Kemmler. Melee caster and caster respectively.
Post by: Cruxador on April 05, 2016, 12:34:00 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2016, 12:56:35 pm
The old world being the most heavily populated means that there is several factions that aren't included from the get go. Wood Elves (even though Bretonnia exists as a unique faction. Athel Loren exists but is impassable forest according to game maps), Beastmen (they are mostly present in the forests of the Empire) and Skaven (Skavenblight located to the south, next to Tilia) are the major ones. Halflings, Kislev and Border Princes are minor factions (they don't have recent rulebooks) and I believe both Kislev and Border Princes are being represented by Empire forces so far. The Moot is present but Halflings are... kind of inconsequential to things.
It's like... get the biggest area out of the way and done and you can add on the smaller sections as expansions. Ulthuan, Naggaroth, Lustria, Nehekhara and possibly the Dark Lands (To the east, over the mountains where Chaos Dwarfs and Ogre Kingdoms mostly are).
If I may guess on some things. I would expect Beastmen to be added as a horde faction similar to Chaos Warriors or the various barbarian factions in Attila: Total War. A starting location within the Empires borders but no permanent settlements.
I have no idea whether factions like Kislev will be expanded on. Part of me thinks they must since they are different factions to the Empire with unique troops, but there are much more important factions before focusing on minor factions.
The stated plans for Warhammer: Total War is to have the base game and 2 stand alone expansions. These can be bought on their own and played but with the base game they can all join together to expand the campaign map and factions available.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 07, 2016, 04:28:05 am
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/170854/a-slayers-guide-2-the-varghulf)
There's also an interesting slideshow document for the upcoming GDC presentation that explains how the siege A.I. works for both defence and attack. How the A.I. can weigh different areas in terms of importance and allocate units to these locations using reserves. A neat insight into how such an A.I. is developed. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/170844/gdc-presentation)
Also, if you download the presentation PDF shown here, on top of some new images used for explanation purposes there are some images hidden behind the existing ones. Page 33 "Logic Prefabs" so far I've found has about 4 images behind the shown one, including images of an Empire city, a Vampire Count city and a Bretonnian city. (http://gdcvault.com/play/1023038/Have-Fun-Storming-the-Castle)
Use Illustrator to open up the PDF and choose the page to look at.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 07, 2016, 08:25:02 am
Post by: umiman on April 07, 2016, 11:04:07 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdMO6Rt1UUo A rockpapershotgun video showing Empire vs Chaos! See a new lore of Light in video.Thought it doesn't really show much. Just CA artificially showcasing "difficulty" again. I don't know who they're trying to fool by putting together armies that are totally outclassed and then purposely playing like arse.
That being said, I was very amused when Archaon was chasing the poor wizard around and the wizard tripped and fell. I also don't think that Hellcannon hit a single thing.
You can also watch the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MYlmb3gip8) on TW's own Youtube.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 07, 2016, 11:50:15 am
@umiman: I do wonder that sometimes, but if so they're not very good at hiding it so I don't think it's that much of an issue if it is true. Grouping units, lengthening unit groups and some other positioning would make sense. He did say at the beginning that people would suggest he should've positioned further up the hill on a flat but he chose to spread out for visuals sake.
I did like the look of the chaos units. Appropriately spikey, though maybe some of the spikes looked a little tacked on. Also, I saw an empire soldier kick a chaos warrior over which must've been a heck of a kick from a scrawny manling.
Post by: umiman on April 07, 2016, 12:01:06 pm
I was nicely surprised that the Hell Cannon had Chaos Dwarfs manning it. I will echo someone else's question in wondering if they are effective in melee, the Hell Cannons that is because on tabletop they can rampage and eat the crew.Oh man I hope that is the case. It'd make it so awesome.
Edit: I can't stop watching this part (https://youtu.be/-MYlmb3gip8?t=12m11s). It's so bloody funny. That poor wizard must be going like "OOOH MAH GAWWWWDDDDD- *kaboomph*"
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 07, 2016, 02:47:58 pm
I don't think that's Archaon is it? Looks more like a generic Chaos Lord.
Post by: Teneb on April 07, 2016, 02:49:11 pm
Ha, that was a good one.They explicitly stated in the video various times that it was Archaon.
I don't think that's Archaon is it? Looks more like a generic Chaos Lord.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 07, 2016, 03:34:52 pm
Post by: umiman on April 08, 2016, 12:39:17 pm
Man, there's so much more stuff now. Just in historical battles alone there's at least 2 to 3 times more content. I swear to god Rome 2 only launched with 3 historical battles and they were shit. I don't even have any of the DLC. And there's actual good mods for it that don't crash constantly.
Why do we even buy these games at launch?
Post by: sambojin on April 08, 2016, 10:59:41 pm
But if it's like the "kinda 4 armies in one, or flavour to taste" of 6th edition WH, then I'd probably pay the CA tax, knowing they'll be good eventually (as well as the rest of the game). A few little daemon units would be the clincher (so yeah, just like 6th ed Chaos, but with marauder marks too).
You can see that the models aren't complete yet (only 1-2 variations a unit for some), so I assume they'll get better. But until I see a campaign, no chance of pre-ordering. They might not be chaos'y enough to sell my soul for.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 08, 2016, 11:02:58 pm
In anticipation of Warhammer, I went and started up Rome 2 again after... a year? Year and a half?
Man, there's so much more stuff now. Just in historical battles alone there's at least 2 to 3 times more content. I swear to god Rome 2 only launched with 3 historical battles and they were shit. I don't even have any of the DLC. And there's actual good mods for it that don't crash constantly.
Why do we even buy these games at launch?
Because we grew up in an era where games were released complete on launch rather than left purposefully unfinished.
Post by: sambojin on April 08, 2016, 11:17:46 pm
Now they're purposefully released unfinished and broken, but they usually get patched within a few months, for whatever your internet d/l fees cost (cheap).
I'm not sure if that's better or worse. I wish I grew up in magic-happy-funland time though. Computer game journalists were probably even honest and well informed and not getting paid to give a positive review in that time/place/myth-that-never-happened.
Ah, nostalgia......
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 08, 2016, 11:26:37 pm
When did you grow up? I grew up at a time that games were released broken and buggy as shit, and never got patched. And if they did, you still had to buy a $10 pc mag for the coverdisc with the patch on it.
Now they're purposefully released unfinished and broken, but they usually get patched within a few months, for whatever your internet d/l fees cost (cheap).
I'm not sure if that's better or worse. I wish I grew up in magic-happy-funland time though. Computer game journalists were probably even honest and well informed and not getting paid to give a positive review in that time/place/myth-that-never-happened.
Ah, nostalgia......
Uhh, the late 90s-early 00s... So ya, things were generally complete as far as I can remember, and if they weren't they were quickly patched.
Post by: Hanzoku on April 09, 2016, 01:23:04 am
Post by: Teneb on April 09, 2016, 05:43:04 am
Stuff was just as bad in the 00s and 90s, just in different ways. Be glad that AAA companies can no longer get away with completely shit launches (see Batman Arkham Knight).
Post by: GiglameshDespair on April 09, 2016, 06:51:21 am
The first episode was released for free.
Then you could buy the full game, which added another two episodes.
The expansion added another two, I think?
Post by: Neonivek on April 09, 2016, 07:02:18 am
Let's take Doom and Quake as examples, both excellent games. Both incomplete at release, since you had to pay extra for the full game (since they were episodic). Sounds like proto-DLC to me.
That is because they were released in the age of Share-ware and they were essentially demos. Albeit many times more awesome then demos today... and more so they were free in that form.
---
As opposed to say Rome 2 total war. Which was released unfinished because they didn't want to put it through an appropriate amount of development cycle to ensure that it was finished and non-glitch... Mostly so they could get the money immediately with a option to stop development if the game is less popular then they would have liked.
And YEAH... old games did often come out with glitches (see one of the Ultima 8 and 9 for proof of that) but they RARELY did it on purpose and were NEVER forgiven for it.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 09, 2016, 07:24:33 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 09, 2016, 09:25:09 am
The event is up on YouTube and linked in the thread above on the second page. There is a bit of footage of a siege between defending Vampire Counts and Chaos Warriors showing the A.I. grouping units for different assaults, reassigning units if one approach doesn't work and waiting back to knock holes in walls before sending units forwards and through. Siege footage is around 40 minutes into the video.
Interesting to note is that the Chaos Warrior army includes Chaos Spawn which is the first time they've been shown.
Post by: Teneb on April 09, 2016, 10:36:45 am
The event at Rezzed has been and gone. If you saw my earlier post you can read the slides that were shown during the presentation in the linked PDF. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/170847/total-war-warhammer-at-rezzed-this-weekend)This is the link mentioned by Mech#4 (https://gaming.youtube.com/watch?v=fj05Ll1Mark)
The event is up on YouTube and linked in the thread above on the second page. There is a bit of footage of a siege between defending Vampire Counts and Chaos Warriors showing the A.I. grouping units for different assaults, reassigning units if one approach doesn't work and waiting back to knock holes in walls before sending units forwards and through. Siege footage is around 40 minutes into the video.
Interesting to note is that the Chaos Warrior army includes Chaos Spawn which is the first time they've been shown.
Keep in mind they talk about a lot of technical stuff.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 09, 2016, 02:18:56 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 09:59:47 am
Post by: Man of Paper on April 12, 2016, 10:58:26 am
Those Hellcannons or whatever on the Chaos side in that video around the 44.00 mark look really, really Slaneeshi.
No, see, Chaos in WH is secretly a group of redneck truckers, so they need to dangle balls off of everything.
Post by: nenjin on April 12, 2016, 10:59:21 am
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 11:06:28 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 12, 2016, 11:52:45 am
That FreeLC is interesting though. New unit, hero, lore of magic, legendary lord, hero, lore of magic, Legendary lord, race, lore of magic, new hero
Of the lores we haven't seen for the main factions (barring chaos) we haven't seen Beast, Life, and Death which would match up perfectly with the three Free lores.
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 11:58:49 am
Of the lores we haven't seen for the main factions (barring chaos) we haven't seen Beast, Life, and Death which would match up perfectly with the three Free lores.According to the store page for Chaos, they don't have the lores of tzeentch, nurgle and slaanesh either. Also we have seen Death, the VCs use it.
The lores that seem to be in the game are: Fire, Light, Heavens, Metal, Death, Vampire, Big Waaagh!, Little Waaagh! (unsure), and Dwarf Runes (unsure). So we're missing (available for the playable factions on the map, including WoC): Shadow, Life, Beasts, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh.
If I were to guess, one of those heroes is likely a gold wizard for the empire, since only
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 12, 2016, 12:07:07 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 12:07:51 pm
Shadow was shown with Azhag for Orks, the Little Waagh was shown with Da Curse of Da Bad Moon. (That floating yellow death moon)Azhag uses Death, not Shadow. But I'll look it up just in case and correct myself if need be.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 12, 2016, 12:10:05 pm
I also wonder whether the listed new faction will be Bretonnia or another one. I think Bretonnia was hinted as coming out close to the release of the game as a free faction, so the later faction might be something like Beastmen or Wood Elves.
The image they put up on their wiki page can be taken as a broad schedule, I think. So going by their mention of the new faction on the list coming towards the end of the year the other things should come between then and release.
The extra units of renown will be interesting. I assume those will be things like marked chaos units or Carroburg Greatswords as it mentions they be limited in number to recruit.
I do look forward to the mini campaign packs. With a number of the well known characters in Warhammer Fantasy actually being dead in the time the game takes place, a campaign focusing on the war between Vlad von Carstein and the Empire would be really neat or the Chaos invasion with Asavar Kul and Engra Deathsword (http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammeronline/images/2/23/Engra_Deathsword_Concept.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20080407104042). Especially if the lords end up usable in the base campaign as well. Even if they should be dead, well, pff to that.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 12, 2016, 12:13:00 pm
Shadow was shown with Azhag for Orks, the Little Waagh was shown with Da Curse of Da Bad Moon. (That floating yellow death moon)Azhag uses Death, not Shadow. But I'll look it up just in case and correct myself if need be.
You are correct, I had forgotten Soulblight was a Death Spell.
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 12:15:53 pm
Shadow was shown with Azhag for Orks, the Little Waagh was shown with Da Curse of Da Bad Moon. (That floating yellow death moon)Azhag uses Death, not Shadow. But I'll look it up just in case and correct myself if need be.
Ninja'd though. At least greenskins won't be stuck with a single lore (unless you grab Azhag).
(Also lightning strike sounds incredible)
I also wonder whether the listed new faction will be Bretonnia or another one. I think Bretonnia was hinted as coming out close to the release of the game as a free faction, so the later faction might be something like Beastmen or Wood Elves.Bretonnia is very likely an early free-lc faction, yeah. Especially since apparently they already got some of their own roster in-game, unlike all other humans that are stuck using imperial stuff.
Other possible factions in the Old World could be (besides Wood Elves and Beastmen) Kiselv, Tilea, Estalia and the Skaven (though I am pretty damn sure the ratmen would be material for one of these extra campaigns). Tilea and Estalia are very unlikely, though.
Post by: umiman on April 12, 2016, 01:22:32 pm
Is this how it is in the tabletop?
Greenskins have both big and little waagh. It's confirmed on the wiki.
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 01:28:31 pm
A lot of the spells seem to either be some kind of AOE buff / debuff or a floating orb.From all the research I had to do for modding purposes: vortexes are somewhat rarer than what is going on in this game. They probably opted for this for gameplay reasons?
Is this how it is in the tabletop?
Greenskins have both big and little waagh. It's confirmed on the wiki.
Post by: Retropunch on April 12, 2016, 02:03:30 pm
As an aside, I agree that most of the spells seem to be vortex based/AOE, but I guess they're the best ones to showcase.
Post by: umiman on April 12, 2016, 02:14:31 pm
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 02:22:15 pm
When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".
Post by: umiman on April 12, 2016, 02:35:39 pm
Oh that's fine then.When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".
-----
I hope you can use pikemen in this Total War like in Rome 2. I really like the mechanics behind pikemen there where you have to manually lower the pikes and move in formation to get the full effect. They purposely gave them low individual unit stats so if they get caught out of position without their pikes, they get slaughtered. But if they're able to have their pikes up, then they're strong as shit.
It's hard to describe in words, but it's very well done in Rome 2 and adds a lot of tactical nuance to the battles. Because ANYTHING the pikes slowly walk into will lose. Guaranteed. Doesn't matter if it's elephants or the best Roman legions. However, even peasant levies that charge their sides or catch them off guard can seriously destroy their numbers. Also if you had like 10x their number you could just break through them. So you have to choose between running around as pikes and when to slowly march forwards as a wall of doom.
The reason I bring this up is because pikes were basically the only answer the elephants in Rome 2. So I imagine they'd probably be the Empire and other human factions' best bet against monstrous creatures. And I'd bet they'd be vital against these Bretonnian arseholes as well. There are guns too in this (so awesome) but I can't imagine gunners being particularly useful when a wyvern falls on them from the sky or a gigantic spider steps on them.
Post by: Retropunch on April 12, 2016, 04:52:38 pm
I'd quite like to think there are some definite counters to monstrous units rather than just brute force - it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.
Post by: Teneb on April 12, 2016, 04:56:39 pm
I'd quite like to think there are some definite counters to monstrous units rather than just brute force - it'll be interesting to see what they come up with.It seems that this falls to halberdiers and (for dwarfs) the slayers.
Post by: umiman on April 12, 2016, 05:02:15 pm
Seriously, I've been playing about 40+ hours of Rome 2 this past few days and the only thing in my mind is "why wasn't all this shit in the game to begin with?!". There's no bugs, performance is incredible, AI is amazing, so many awesome mods, so much content.
I'm also still extremely bitter about the Chaos preorder DLC bullshit. Unlike a lot of internet people, I have a very long and bitter and stubborn and vindictive memory.
Post by: Cruxador on April 12, 2016, 07:21:50 pm
When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.Peasant bowmen are great too. They're not super high-tier, but they're six points each so you get a lot of them, and they're very efficient. I don't know if this will hold over to the vidya, but I imagine it should.
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
It's weird, but this might be the most tactical of all total war games, just because of the angles of attack which we haven't really had before. I'm a bit worried that magic will disrupt the balance a bit and do away with careful tactics, but if they're sensible about it then this could be awesomely engaging.If magic has never done away with tactics before, why should it start now?
Also not sure why it's weird that emulating a tactically deeper game makes Total War tactically deeper.
Post by: umiman on April 12, 2016, 07:34:37 pm
It does. In all the Total War games peasant bowmen are like 300g each.When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.Peasant bowmen are great too. They're not super high-tier, but they're six points each so you get a lot of them, and they're very efficient. I don't know if this will hold over to the vidya, but I imagine it should.
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
Doesn't really matter much in the campaign where after awhile you basically have infinite money but it's a big deal in MP. It was massively important in Shogun 2's MP because Shogun 2 had the levelling system that made it so that the higher level your unit levels, the more expensive they become (including your mandatory general). So a high level player's army would be miniscule compared to a player at level 1.
It actually made the game really difficult when you got really high level. It's very hard to fight an army three times your size.
All the recent Total Wars abandoned the metagame kinda MP though. I know it was pretty divisive but I liked it. I like having some kind of progression in MP and it was nice having an army that felt like it was yours. Units that you manually named and levelled and coloured. Personal exploits and achievements. Honestly this Total War Warhammer could really use it as it was identical to having a figurine-based army.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 12, 2016, 10:14:14 pm
Oh that's fine then.When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".
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I hope you can use pikemen in this Total War like in Rome 2. I really like the mechanics behind pikemen there where you have to manually lower the pikes and move in formation to get the full effect. They purposely gave them low individual unit stats so if they get caught out of position without their pikes, they get slaughtered. But if they're able to have their pikes up, then they're strong as shit.
I don't think there are pikemen in any of the Warhammer Fantasy factions. The Empire have halbadiers and spearmen, Orcs and Goblins have spears, dwarfs have nothing like that and Vampire Counts have skeletons with spears. It's a curious hole in army lists and the only pike unit I can think of in the tabletop is a unit of mercenaries but Creative Assembly has mentioned there won't be mercenaries.
How the factions deal with large units of cavalry will be tricky. Orcs and Goblins might have to counter charge with Trolls or swamp with spears. Dwarfs will have to use ranged guns/crossbows and take charges with their heavy infantry. Vampire Counts might have to use fliers to tie up cavalry long enough to charge with other ground units as they lack even ranged units.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 13, 2016, 12:11:53 am
EDIT: Then again, with the direction Creative Assembly is going, I'm not sure I'm really sure/like what a TW game is any more these days.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 13, 2016, 12:54:26 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 13, 2016, 01:11:22 am
I would like to see Richter Krueger and his cursed company. A squad that gains new units upon killing enemies would probably be too difficult to implement though. (http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cursed_Company)
Post by: Isdar on April 13, 2016, 01:59:37 am
I believe Wissenland (Where Nuln is) are known for using pikemen, but beyond that its all halberdiers for close-rank formation fighting.Oh that's fine then.When I saw Bretonnia's unit list I gave up on life.That's the whole Bretonnian Thing, though. That said, they don't have horse archers, so it's not mongolian levels of hax.
An entire army based on cavalry of every sort? And all these cavalry are all superpowered and some of these superpowered ones are superpowered terminator spess mahreens? I hate steppe-like armies and horse archers enough as it is.
If I were a Russian medieval lord, I'd stand on my castle walls in front of Genghis Khan and scream "STOP USING OVERPOWERED HAX UNITS YOU NOOB SCRUB!".
-----
I hope you can use pikemen in this Total War like in Rome 2. I really like the mechanics behind pikemen there where you have to manually lower the pikes and move in formation to get the full effect. They purposely gave them low individual unit stats so if they get caught out of position without their pikes, they get slaughtered. But if they're able to have their pikes up, then they're strong as shit.
I don't think there are pikemen in any of the Warhammer Fantasy factions. The Empire have halbadiers and spearmen, Orcs and Goblins have spears, dwarfs have nothing like that and Vampire Counts have skeletons with spears. It's a curious hole in army lists and the only pike unit I can think of in the tabletop is a unit of mercenaries but Creative Assembly has mentioned there won't be mercenaries.
How the factions deal with large units of cavalry will be tricky. Orcs and Goblins might have to counter charge with Trolls or swamp with spears. Dwarfs will have to use ranged guns/crossbows and take charges with their heavy infantry. Vampire Counts might have to use fliers to tie up cavalry long enough to charge with other ground units as they lack even ranged units.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 13, 2016, 02:01:20 am
Post by: Isdar on April 13, 2016, 02:13:51 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 13, 2016, 02:14:23 am
There is precedent for some of those mechanics though, spears have been able to hit using the first two, or three for High Elves, ranks when charged and elves have the "Always strike first" rule. I don't think there is really an answer for the lack of pikes.
Post by: umiman on April 13, 2016, 02:14:44 am
Post by: Majestic7 on April 13, 2016, 02:16:27 am
Post by: Cruxador on April 13, 2016, 11:08:10 am
Is there any explanation for the lack of pikes? It seems stupid considering Warhamster is all fake renaissance and pikes defined the era historically. I mean, zweihanders and halberds were used to counter the pikes... although I suppose in WH they are used against tough monsters. Still, I imagine pikes would be excellent in, say, stopping ork charges.I think it's just a matter of no major faction being based on a Latin and southern European nation, and those are the ones who are best known for pikes. The Spanish and Swiss in particular. I know the Germans used them heavily as well, but they still tend to get overshadowed in the retrospective milieu by the anti-pike weapons – the ones that the Empire uses heavily.
Not really. I would guess it would partly be due to difficulty when it comes to the tabletop. How pikes would allocate hits if charged or charging, turning and reforming, ranks and number of hits and so on.Mechanics aren't the reason. Although it's a problem, it's a solvable problem (as the things you cite illustrate). If GW really wanted to add pikes, they would have.
There is precedent for some of those mechanics though, spears have been able to hit using the first two, or three for High Elves, ranks when charged and elves have the "Always strike first" rule. I don't think there is really an answer for the lack of pikes.
Reading the wikis, I notice a lot of Tilian troops / mercenaries use pikes.I don't suppose anyone can find anything about how they work mechanically?
Well, I'm pretty sure an armored knight and an armored warhorse are a combination more massive than an average orc boy (big ones not counting). Despite this, heavy cavalry was not used to charge pikes unless there were situational advantages. The bigger the attacker is and the harder they charge the pikes, the worse they'll impale themselves. Plus if the first rank of pikes breaks, there are many more ranks behind them.What makes them good pike-breakers isn't the forward motion, it's the lateral motion. Halberds and zweihanders achieve this by being long, but orks can achieve this by being real strong. A horse is also strong, but doesn't add this strength to the strikes of the wielder and can't attack with transverse blows; the kind needed to break pikes.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 13, 2016, 11:21:42 am
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/171400/rally-point-challenge-fear-the-risen-dead-lets-play)
Under infantry it looks like pikemen, spearmen, swordsmen, halberdiers, greatswords.
Post by: umiman on April 13, 2016, 11:42:46 am
Funnily enough, Creative Assembly have just put up a video on the forums, a challenge of an army of empire handgunner vs zombies where in the unit list near the beginning of the video it seems like the Empire do have pikemen to choose from.Good. No pikes would be probably one of the firsts in TW history. Even Shogun had them in Oda's long yari infantry.
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/171400/rally-point-challenge-fear-the-risen-dead-lets-play)
Under infantry it looks like pikemen, spearmen, swordsmen, halberdiers, greatswords.
By the way, anyone else notice how massive the potential unit battle sizes were in that custom game screen?
Edit:
No it's probably not. It corresponds to the already existing unit list:
Melee Infantry:
- Halberdiers
- Spearmen
- Swordsmen
- Spearmen (Shields)
- Greatswords
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2016, 11:53:05 am
Spoiler: Decided to take a screenshot out of it (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on April 13, 2016, 12:17:00 pm
I believe the custom battles are up to 40 units. Going by previous Total War games, campaign battles will be up to 40 as well if you have either two armies nearby or are joined by an ally. Though, thinking, did that add the other units into the battle from the beginning or did it keep them in reserve until the count dropped below 20?
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2016, 12:19:30 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 13, 2016, 09:51:11 pm
If CA does this for their "second race" release, it'll be awesome.
Post by: Teneb on April 13, 2016, 10:17:01 pm
In WH, Pikes = Regiments of Renown or Border Princes. Ie: Mercenary regiments, fluff them how you want.I guess pikes'll be if and when the Estilean become playable. If. Because aside from Dogs of War, they got nothing on the Tabletop.
If CA does this for their "second race" release, it'll be awesome.
Post by: Teneb on April 14, 2016, 01:33:14 pm
Post by: umiman on April 14, 2016, 10:23:31 pm
Quote from: Heathen Turtle Scum
"I will try to put my artillery on a hill, preferably in a corner"
Seriously though, here's the video link: https://youtu.be/Oq98UfLVDIo?t=1m16s
The video also covers how diplomacy works. It looks very similar to Rome 2. Actually it looks identical to it.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 15, 2016, 12:22:10 am
Post by: Teneb on April 15, 2016, 05:51:31 am
I wonder if diplomacy is just as idiotic as before. Huh, it will be interesting to see how this compared to the Call of the Warhammer mod for Medieval 2. It already lacks several things present in the mod, like mercenaries (they had unique merc warbands), while having totally non-essential stuff like guiding goblin kamikazes.How dare you slander the name of the holy doom diver?
I watched an episode of Rally Point where one of the devs was talking about how she likes to play as the Empire and lo and behold... SHE FUCKING TURTLES THE FUCKING TURTLE SCUM.There is a turtling army (dwarfs)... and she decides to take the empire's versatility and bloody turtle. I'm a scrub and this still disgusts me.Quote from: Heathen Turtle Scum"I will try to put my artillery on a hill, preferably in a corner"
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 15, 2016, 07:36:25 am
I wonder if diplomacy is just as idiotic as before.
You fucking Betcha, most likly crippeld multiplayer as usual.
#Modswillfixit
Post by: Cruxador on April 15, 2016, 11:12:59 am
Post by: lordcooper on April 15, 2016, 02:00:05 pm
How can you "turtle" in a tactics situation? Seems to me it's just a defensive tactic and entirely worthwhile when you've got a good lot of artillery.
Because field battles in TW games have an artificially (by necessity) limited amount of space.
If you turtle up in a corner of the map I can only approach you from the front, whereas in an actual battle there aren't invisible walls preventing my cavalry from circling behind you.
Post by: umiman on April 15, 2016, 04:08:40 pm
How can you "turtle" in a tactics situation? Seems to me it's just a defensive tactic and entirely worthwhile when you've got a good lot of artillery.
Quote from: John Steinbeck
The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense.
Quote from: Sun Tzu
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.
Quote from: Douglas Haig
The idea that a war can be won by standing on the defensive and waiting for the enemy to attack is a dangerous fallacy, which owes its inception to the desire to evade the price of victory.
It's an incredible waste of everyone's time because you can't lose unless you're turtling too. You outnumber them by default and they have no room for any sort of tactical maneuver other than the hole they've already dug themselves into. To give you an idea, a rank 10 Armstrong gun in Shogun 2 costs 1830. That's the same price as three regular infantry. A rank 1 Armstrong gun costs 1300. That's two regular infantry. So for every piece of artillery you get, you sacrifice 2-3x your number.
So you end up with one guy that has 2-3x the army size of the other just trudging halfway across the map to an inevitable victory. There's no fun. There's no excitement. There's no strategy or talent or skill. You know you're going to win. The other side is too blind to realize they had no chance of victory. It's just a waste of time.
In reality this might not be the case as it's just as likely that the turtler can do shit other than turtle and have more manpower, but in TW this is completely untrue because of the mechanics of the game.
Post by: Neonivek on April 16, 2016, 01:14:00 am
But the idea of having such overwhelming defenses or strength that you force peace is more of a modern day inception due to the fact that we have the technology to make any war extremely costly immediately.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 16, 2016, 08:48:38 am
Post by: umiman on April 19, 2016, 12:39:50 pm
I wonder if this means that we're going back to pre-made maps rather than Rome 2's "play-on-whatever-you're-on" thing.
Also those charges. So brutal.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 19, 2016, 12:49:44 pm
EDIT: Git Gud.
Post by: pisskop on April 19, 2016, 12:53:55 pm
That looks pretty good. I know relatively little about warhammer, but Im sure Id be willing to learn if its going to actually be worth the monies
Post by: lordcooper on April 19, 2016, 03:12:43 pm
I wonder if this means that we're going back to pre-made maps rather than Rome 2's "play-on-whatever-you're-on" thing.
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4fhfys/battlefield_briefing_bloodpine_woods/d28v28w?context=1
Post by: sambojin on April 19, 2016, 04:53:15 pm
But I wouldn't mind having tonnes of prefabs either. Strategically it might be good to be able to rely on having certain prominent terrain features to help you defend or attack in certain places. I know proc-genned maps will stay the same in each battle at those co-ordinates, but prefabs tend to make for quite nice and specific challenges to overcome or utilize.
I wonder if the proc-genned ones have been massaged a fair bit to suit different army types? Will the traditional dwarven areas suit turtling while the bretonnian areas have vast plains with a few forests suited to cav charges, whereby giving a racial hat and reason for those people to live there and be successful in those places? Or will these map types at least be more regular in "their areas"?
I guess there'll be a bit of both, so you probably will learn where better places are to engage, depending on army makeup. You'll probably find you own "Blackfire Pass" that suits your army type and playstyle every once in a while, and note it down for future reference for defenses, while certain other areas will have prefabs with really well detailed pre-canned maps. Ever easy to please, I want stacks of everything, and for it all to be done really well. :)
Post by: umiman on April 19, 2016, 05:14:09 pm
I mean, you kinda have an idea but sometimes it can really sneak up on you. For example, when you siege Antioch in Rome 2 it looks like any other flat desert with some water nearby. But if the enemy actually sallies forth, what you find is that you, the defender, are at the foot of a ginormous mountain and all your enemies will spawn on the huge high ground above you. The cliff elevation is such that your arty can't even shoot up it and you'll get totally rolled (literally).
I'm still bitter about it... The Selucids stampeded me with 80 Elephants there...
-----------
Come to think of it. Do you have to the same quest battles every single time? I can imagine that gets really annoying fast.
Post by: Teneb on April 19, 2016, 05:27:31 pm
Come to think of it. Do you have to the same quest battles every single time? I can imagine that gets really annoying fast.I think they are static for each lord, so I guess yes.
Post by: umiman on April 20, 2016, 12:34:22 pm
CA confirmed that Bretonnia will be free-LC and that it'll be available for custom and MP battles but not for campaign (with a limited roster).
Edit: Those pegasus wings don't long strong enough to support their riders.
Holy shit the Terrorgeist is so scary.
Post by: Teneb on April 20, 2016, 02:04:37 pm
CA confirmed that Bretonnia will be free-LC and that it'll be available for custom and MP battles but not for campaign (with a limited roster).You mean it'll be available for custom and MP before it comes out as freeLC or also after?
EDIT: Nevermind, saw the full thing and pre-freeLC bretonnia will be available for MP and custom. After, it'll have its campaign I guess.
EDIT 2: The bretonnian player could've probably done much much better if he hadn't wasted time zooming in and watching charges (they could've pre-recorded the thing and then panned around showing off the combat).
Post by: sprinkled chariot on April 20, 2016, 02:39:58 pm
Post by: Cruxador on April 20, 2016, 02:44:54 pm
Will there be awesome naval battles?Nope.
Post by: Antioch on April 20, 2016, 03:21:18 pm
Post by: pisskop on April 20, 2016, 08:38:52 pm
And all that on Warhammer is taking place 39 1/2 thousand years before 40k?
Its a continuim? Or just a loose basis?
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 20, 2016, 09:02:19 pm
This may not be terribly relevant to this particular game, but The world of Warhammer is Terra in 40k?
And all that on Warhammer is taking place 39 1/2 thousand years before 40k?
Its a continuim? Or just a loose basis?
different universes. Originally 40k began as kind of what-if for fantasy, but became wildly successful.
Post by: Cruxador on April 20, 2016, 09:42:05 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 20, 2016, 09:50:57 pm
Will there be awesome naval battles?
Since the only naval combat that's been properly portrayed in WH was Man'O'War, probably not. I'm not even sure when it was meant to be timeline-wise, but I think it's probably more in the Bloodbowl-style offshoot universe than being canonically correct. Man'O'War was kind of weird.
Post by: Cruxador on April 20, 2016, 10:01:44 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 20, 2016, 10:20:56 pm
Will there be awesome naval battles?
Since the only naval combat that's been properly portrayed in WH was Man'O'War, probably not. I'm not even sure when it was meant to be timeline-wise, but I think it's probably more in the Bloodbowl-style offshoot universe than being canonically correct. Man'O'War was kind of weird.
I have to say--for the ambition of this game and the scope of the universe there is a questionable and in a very real, slimy-businessmen sense, lack of content. Lack of factions. There's plenty of factions which are are fairly unique in WHF. Lack of naval combat. Again, while maybe not that well-depicted, a wealth (a fucking wealth) of unique factions/units. Everything that IS there seems to be very same-y in terms of mechanics and frankly the devs just seem to be focusing on how the game LOOKS and generating hype.
As creator of some of my favorite games ever, I want to give Creative Assembly a chance, but... It's getting increasingly difficult for me to consider new TW games as anything more than poor, money-grubbing imitations of former glory.
EDIT: Also their newly... evolved business model is beginning to generate a bit of an EA hatred feeling.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 20, 2016, 10:23:53 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 20, 2016, 11:19:14 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 21, 2016, 12:09:43 am
Does it have big, spinny, scythe blades on the top of chaos vessels to wreck stuff with? MoW had heaps of whacky vessels in it (yes, think Whacky Races on water in a way).
I would assume it would be added at some point. As I mentioned it's rather bare bones at the moment so I would suggest watching some videos on YouTube showing off the game. Here's a series of videos done by "SplatterCatGaming" that show missions, combat and the ship buying system. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmIFM5eJ5pI)
Another interesting feature is that you actually play as a person, not as the ship. So you can upgrade your characters weapons and walk about on the deck of your ship.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 21, 2016, 12:54:46 am
I thought it was a cool explanation, but yeah, then they started taking themselves too seriously and Warhamster lost lots of cool things in favor of oh-so-serious-wannabe-fascism-that-gives-teenage-boys-erections. I suppose it sells better.
Post by: umiman on April 21, 2016, 01:14:33 am
they started taking themselves too seriously and Warhamster lost lots of cool things in favor of oh-so-serious-wannabe-fascism-that-gives-teenage-boys-erections. I suppose it sells better.Uhh... you might want to see what they've done with Warhammer.
It'll probably shock you a little. Before you ask what I'm talking about just do a quick google. You can't miss it.
Post by: Teneb on April 21, 2016, 09:29:21 am
I have to say--for the ambition of this game and the scope of the universe there is a questionable and in a very real, slimy-businessmen sense, lack of content. Lack of factions. There's plenty of factions which are are fairly unique in WHF. Lack of naval combat. Again, while maybe not that well-depicted, a wealth (a fucking wealth) of unique factions/units. Everything that IS there seems to be very same-y in terms of mechanics and frankly the devs just seem to be focusing on how the game LOOKS and generating hype.Is this referring to Total War or Man 'O War? Either way, making factions that are not just "humans with different clothes" is not something that is easy or cheap. I don't support the whole Day1 DLC thing, mind, but either we have DLC adding factions or we'll be stuck with the initial ones.
I don't think CA has even talked about naval combat, so there could be, or there could not.
Post by: Cruxador on April 21, 2016, 12:37:05 pm
I always thought the Fantasy Warhamster was taking place on a planet in a warp pocket, cut off from ordinary time and space and degenerated in technology.This was true at one point.
I don't think CA has even talked about naval combat, so there could be, or there could not.They said not at launch.
Post by: Sirus on April 21, 2016, 12:42:10 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 21, 2016, 12:53:12 pm
Post by: umiman on April 26, 2016, 09:39:35 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 26, 2016, 06:05:56 pm
Giants, and how to counter them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37H26WH9XA)
"Lol, there aren't any. -- CA"
Post by: Teneb on April 26, 2016, 06:11:27 pm
Nah, they said siege can take them down. But yeah, it seems giants might be a pretty good choice for greenskins in the late game.Giants, and how to counter them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37H26WH9XA)
"Lol, there aren't any. -- CA"
Wait, VCs have no siege. GG.
Post by: umiman on April 26, 2016, 06:13:27 pm
They have those wraith dudes though. The floating death reaper guys.Nah, they said siege can take them down. But yeah, it seems giants might be a pretty good choice for greenskins in the late game.Giants, and how to counter them (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s37H26WH9XA)
"Lol, there aren't any. -- CA"
Wait, VCs have no siege. GG.
There's actually a pretty interesting mechanic I don't know if it was mentioned in that in sieges, towers and shoot the entire map (ahead of them). So just letting your siege weapons slowly shoot the enemy walls might not be the wisest of ideas. Also you can manually order your towers to aim at targets you want.
With this in mind, I think I'm kinda OK with vampires not having any ranged units of any kind... simply because I wouldn't want to be one against the ridiculous hail of enemy fire as we've seen in the gameplay videos. I would just suicide charge the enemy walls too. I also think it'd be pretty cool to summon zombies on top of the enemy's walls next to their archers.
...
I like the Vampire Counts. Also the Terrorgheist looks amazing.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 26, 2016, 10:41:24 pm
Post by: Puzzlemaker on April 27, 2016, 07:35:48 am
This is a thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6IUbraF9Oo
what.
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2016, 05:30:06 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 27, 2016, 05:31:31 pm
There's also spells like the "Curse of Bjuna" or something that lowers the stats of a unit making them take much more damage from enemy attacks. I guess the answer for a lot of these problems for the Vampire Counts will be "throw a spell at it".
MORE ZOMBIES! Though you could also use the Ethereal units which take much less damage from physical attacks.
Post by: umiman on April 27, 2016, 05:37:46 pm
Steam tanks are monsters now? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiVXAntNgnw)
Quote
If the enemy isnt bracing, a steam tank can just roll through medium infantry like Orc Boys for example. Their strength as a unit is their fire power as they're not as effective in prolonged melee combat.That sounds extremely amusing.
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2016, 05:38:42 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 27, 2016, 06:28:17 pm
With the real-$ value not being a factor, hopefully CA will balance them a bit better.
Speaking of things with odd rules that were a tiny bit too good for their points cost (and that were completely free to make $-wise), I don't remember seeing any snotling pump wagons anywhere. Is there a vid with them in it? They've been great in every edition (not ST great, but still awesome).
Post by: umiman on April 27, 2016, 06:33:35 pm
Ahh, steam tanks. One of the biggest lore/gameplay disparities ever. There's 12 of them, but literally every army has one in WH. Because they're too good for their points cost and shift a tonne of expensive models.Greenskins army roster:
With the real-$ value not being a factor, hopefully CA will balance them a bit better.
Speaking of things with odd rules that were a tiny bit too good for their points cost (and that were completely free to make $-wise), I don't remember seeing any snotling pump wagons anywhere. Is there a vid with them in it? They've been great in every edition (not ST great, but still awesome).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: sambojin on April 27, 2016, 06:37:38 pm
So they can make a lazor chariot, you can control doom divers in-flight, but they didn't make a terrain jumping spiky rally cart powered by insane little gremlins? Bah!
If there's a modding back end of any sort in this, I know what I'm making first. Possibly for the sole purpose of having pump wagon races.
They were one of the best things about being a greenskin in TT. A free model that you'd make from cardboard/sprue bits/random stuff, highly customizable for the model and the rules, kind of broken rules too (360° random charge arc meant no reactions allowed, plus you could legally clip a unit where you wanted to, well away from characters, possibly from behind scenery with no LoS if you took the Flappers upgrade), as well as being nice and cheap so they were gloriously expendable. As snotlings should be. You thought fanatics were area denial? PWs were so much better if you were any good with them. They were one of the zany units that made it "Your" army, unlike any other.
I've already got some ideas of how to mod them in and make them fun, assuming we can mod anything in at all (and make it PoV fun).
Post by: umiman on April 27, 2016, 06:53:53 pm
:-[There will probably be modding but there's no official mod support.
So they can make a lazor chariot, you can control doom divers in-flight, but they didn't make a terrain jumping spiky rally cart powered by insane little gremlins? Bah!
If there's a modding back end of any sort in this, I know what I'm making first. Possibly for the sole purpose of having pump wagon races.
So the best we can hope for is people fiddling with the numbers of AI priorities and stuff like that.
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2016, 06:54:04 pm
Post by: sambojin on April 27, 2016, 07:51:07 pm
There is no mod support because GW hates mods. That said, in the official wiki at the end of each of the 4 base factions' rosters there's a note saying more units will be added as free-LC. And in the free-LC plan thingy, the first to be released will be a unit (to VC, based on the background of the picture? I hope it's Blood Knights.).
I think TW:WH is a different case. GW didn't like things that potentially ate into model sales, or into getting license fees from part II of a series. WH is dead, they're fine with CA having plenty of creative freedom, so it's up to CA on whether they're fine with modding in general. Modding WH related stuff doesn't take a single cent out of GW's pocket (WH is dead TT/sale/model-wise), and good mods might even sell a few more TW copies for the brand. It's CA's call, not GW's on this one. They stand to lose DLC sales if a mod already covers that, or does it better.
For pump wagons, the basic mechanics are already there for cool pump wagons. Winds of Magic "pulsing" UI elements, with moving safety thresholds being depleted for speed boosts, and ever increasing chances of damage. Walk/march/charge lowering or recharging available "winds" and safety margins (so go too fast for too long and you'll crash/cop damage, and they're not too sturdy to begin with). PoV for racing/fun. Cooldown "skills" for jumps, spores, and maybe handbrake turns, all lowering the safety threshhold for a while, but letting you be "Snotling Awesome" at key times. Unit upgrades for the damage upgrades.
It just depends on whether we can get access to them. Hacking in a restatted chariot with a different model will probably be pretty easy. But making it fun and unique isn't out of the question, it just depends on how hard it will be. Can't wait to peruse those game files.
Post by: Teneb on April 27, 2016, 07:54:36 pm
No, it's GW's call. CA has explicitly stated that GW wants no mod support, so no mod support.There is no mod support because GW hates mods. That said, in the official wiki at the end of each of the 4 base factions' rosters there's a note saying more units will be added as free-LC. And in the free-LC plan thingy, the first to be released will be a unit (to VC, based on the background of the picture? I hope it's Blood Knights.).
I think TW:WH is a different case. GW didn't like things that potentially ate into model sales, or into getting license fees from part II of a series. WH is dead, they're fine with CA having plenty of creative freedom, so it's up to CA on whether they're fine with modding in general. Modding WH related stuff doesn't take a single cent out of GW's pocket (WH is dead TT/sale/model-wise), and good mods might even sell a few more TW copies for the brand. It's CA's call, not GW's on this one. They stand to lose DLC sales if a mod already covers that, or does it better.
I'm not saying there won't be mods. After all, Dawn of War was heavily modded and also suffered under GW's no-mod policy. Just, not everyone will be able to do it.
Post by: pisskop on April 29, 2016, 07:35:30 am
Post by: Puzzlemaker on April 29, 2016, 07:36:47 am
Post by: umiman on April 29, 2016, 08:13:37 am
So the chaos warrior DLC will be free for the first week, which is awesome. I wanted to wait to see if they had a good launch.I'm OK with that.
Here's the video where that's announced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EIkvHD7MU8
Post by: Mech#4 on April 29, 2016, 08:20:00 am
Post by: catoblepas on April 30, 2016, 03:16:00 pm
It does seem to fit the direction CA has been going in ever since Empire TW though. I even recall discussion on the modding forums I frequented that CA saw mods as competition to the DLC, and that the lack of modding support in those later games was in part a result of that. I think this might just be their excuse for avoiding doing even the bare minimum of support that was available for the last few games.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if even fewer of the game files were accessible to modders this time around.
Post by: umiman on April 30, 2016, 05:47:09 pm
To be honest, I find CA's claim that GW demanded no modding to be rather dubious. in particular, the expansive Dawn of War modding scene never seemed to bother GW, and to my knowledge the popular Warhammer Fantasy mod for Medieval II is still around.I'm sure it wasn't a particularly difficult decision for them to make, let's put it that way.
It does seem to fit the direction CA has been going in ever since Empire TW though. I even recall discussion on the modding forums I frequented that CA saw mods as competition to the DLC, and that the lack of modding support in those later games was in part a result of that. I think this might just be their excuse for avoiding doing even the bare minimum of support that was available for the last few games.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if even fewer of the game files were accessible to modders this time around.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 30, 2016, 08:53:54 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 01, 2016, 07:26:44 am
To be honest, I find CA's claim that GW demanded no modding to be rather dubious. in particular, the expansive Dawn of War modding scene never seemed to bother GW, and to my knowledge the popular Warhammer Fantasy mod for Medieval II is still around.
It does seem to fit the direction CA has been going in ever since Empire TW though. I even recall discussion on the modding forums I frequented that CA saw mods as competition to the DLC, and that the lack of modding support in those later games was in part a result of that. I think this might just be their excuse for avoiding doing even the bare minimum of support that was available for the last few games.
I wouldn't be terribly surprised if even fewer of the game files were accessible to modders this time around.
I think it's probably both - whilst GW wasn't too bothered about the Dawn of War modding, that was a significantly different time. This was before things like Fallout/The Elder Scrolls got the wider gaming population interested in mods, and it was also a very different sort of game from the table top (being base buildy). Generally they've been arses about modding/usage, so I'm not inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt.
I also imagine that CA isn't too keen on the idea of people modding in all the other races they want to DLC in. It's obvious that the first things people mod in will be the other main races, and with such a fixed universe (the units, abilities and so on will be nearly the same) then the mod implementation may well end up being on par or similar to the DLC.
Post by: Sirus on May 03, 2016, 12:46:47 pm
I see that cavalry charges are looking better and better!So the chaos warrior DLC will be free for the first week, which is awesome. I wanted to wait to see if they had a good launch.I'm OK with that.
Here's the video where that's announced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EIkvHD7MU8
Post by: Mech#4 on May 05, 2016, 08:50:52 am
I'm sure people will agree that this is a rather unexpected but welcome announcement.
Edit: Reading some more, and an article from Rock Paper Shotgun, there will also apparently be some mods available from launch made by community members who had early access to the game. These mods will cover things like regional occupation and legendary lord starting positions. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/05/05/total-war-warhammer-mod-support/)
Post by: Teneb on May 05, 2016, 08:58:54 am
Post by: umiman on May 05, 2016, 10:49:37 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on May 05, 2016, 05:31:28 pm
Someone managed to get GW to not do something stupid....?
What a time to be alive. We truly live in an age of enlightenment.
Post by: catoblepas on May 05, 2016, 10:58:33 pm
Though part of me worries that CA doesn't have much confidence in the game if they are scrambling to sweeten the pot when it's not even a month away from release like this.
Fingers crossed.
Post by: Vendayn on May 06, 2016, 12:23:08 am
And warhammer total war looks epic, always wanted a fantasy total war that wasn't based off lord of the rings (nothing against that, LOTR mods are epic, but there wasn't any other massive fantasy mods like that). And with mod support, thats pretty awesome.
I know I've complained about how much DLC there will be, but oh well. Even if there is (or not). I play attila with barely any DLC, and its still tons of fun lol.
(edit: and to add...
Also. I can already tell warhammer is gonna be a ton of fun. I love fantasy, I love strategy games, even crappy fantasy strategy games (like warlock master of the arcane) I have a TON of fun with. And I love total war (for most part, rome 2 was meh, but attila is awesome). Love warhammer. Plus, I'm not really hyped up that much about it, kinda excited...but not like Spore and Fallout 4 pre-release. So not much room for me to be disappointed :P
Post by: Teneb on May 10, 2016, 06:04:02 pm
Post by: umiman on May 10, 2016, 09:21:05 pm
Blood for the blood god? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKv4A0GA3Qw) I hope you like to run on deficitYou know I can't for the life of me imagine a Chaos lord being a Chaos accountant.
Post by: Vendayn on May 10, 2016, 10:20:20 pm
Empire looks like a lot of fun, and plays how I usually play strategy games (diplomatic/espionage etc focused), and their lore is cool.
Greenskins cause they have always been one of my favorites in warhammer (fantasy and 40k).
Vampires cause undead
dwarves, since siege seems really powerful in this game. A dwarven siege army would lay so much hurt. And I like a very defensive game, which dwarves are usually good for that.
only ones I know I won't play as (at least for a long while) is Chaos. Not big into aggressive campaigns, and I like to make lots and lots of money, and be peaceful as possible with everyone :P Which Chaos is the exact opposite of how I play strategy games.
Post by: Teneb on May 11, 2016, 12:21:43 pm
Post by: umiman on May 12, 2016, 12:41:51 pm
I wish we could actually play like that.
------------
Here's the Chaos vs Dwarf battle we saw before, except this time from the Dwarf side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAMKJzUAX_M
It's glorious.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 13, 2016, 11:19:43 am
Also a bit more information on the mod support; Games Workshop has allowed modding support of Warhammer: Total War as long as mods that feature settings or franchises other than Warhammer Fantasy Battles are not made. This would mean no Warhammer 40,000 or Age of Sigmar mods, but also no Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones and so on. The guidelines can be read at the linked wiki page. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Content_Creators#Creating_Mods_for_Total_War:_WARHAMMER)
While I'm sure people will be quick to point out the futility of this in totality, overall I think it is a rather reasonable request. Creative Assembly has said they will be closely monitoring the Steam workshop for anything that doesn't comply with the guidelines for Warhammer: Total War mods. I also believe that the forum moderators for TWCenter has agreed to remove mods that don't follow the guidelines on their site as well. I would hope that YouTubers would work with this as well and not highlight mods that don't follow the guidelines. They may end up existing, but if they're visual presence is kept minimal, maybe Games Workshop won't worry too much.
Mods for these settings can still be made for Attila and Rome 2: Total War. Indeed, a mod for Lord of the Rings is in the works for Attila: Total War. (http://www.moddb.com/mods/total-war-rise-of-mordor)
Post by: Neonivek on May 13, 2016, 11:45:03 am
Post by: pisskop on May 13, 2016, 11:48:30 am
And if they are supporting mods that are following the guidelines, most of the support those that dont follow those guidelines will have what they need?
so . . . Dont cross the yellow line. Or something.
I mean lol thats just them saying not to do it and waggling a finger at you.
Post by: Teneb on May 13, 2016, 12:22:58 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 13, 2016, 12:32:00 pm
The party to look at here isn't Creative Assembly, who are pretty happy with allowing mod support for their games, but Games Workshop who has quite the reputation for coming down on fan made works and being protective of their I.Ps. I get the feeling that the guidelines for mods is so they don't get in legal issues with, say, the Middle-earth Enterprises, or step on the sales toes of companies making games based on Games Workshop's other I.Ps such as Warhammer 40,000.
It's still kind of unsure what exactly will be allowed with regards to mods for Warhammer Fantasy themed ones. The examples given so far are Legendary Lord starting positions and Regional Occupation removal mods but whether people will be able to make mods to, say, expand the roster of Kislev or the Border Princes probably won't be known until such a mod pops up and the situation has to be sorted out. A battlefield editor will be available, so people can make their own battle maps and maybe even modify the siege maps for more variety.
Post by: nenjin on May 13, 2016, 05:39:40 pm
1. Trademark Infringement.
2. Copyright Infringement.
3. Sexual Content.
For how much GWS cares about infringement against its own properties, I'm pretty sure they're terrified modders will lead the game into a turf battle with other litigious IP holders. And they probably don't want GWS properties associated with TES and FO level of titays.
GWS hasn't really come down on modding before in its other games like DoW, but, I'm guessing there is significantly more at stake here than there have been with many (most) other GWS-licensed titles. After all, in their mind Total Warhammer is still a chance to bring new people in the Age of Sigmar.
Post by: pisskop on May 13, 2016, 05:42:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 13, 2016, 06:03:44 pm
Post by: nenjin on May 14, 2016, 12:31:11 am
That's 40k.
^
I mean, take a look at 40k art sometime too. Yeah there's Daemonettes of course and the occasional artisan-crated nipple on a piece of armor.
But other than that 40k tends to avoid sex appeal as well, even in the novels involving Slaanesh. It gives it its due place in the story, and some of it is graphic but that's pretty much it. It's self-contained. It's one of the things that has continually made me a fan of 40k, is that by and large it doesn't use sex to sell its IP. Part of that is undoubtedly that woman don't get a lot of screen time in 40k. Because they're not present most of the time it's difficult to objectify them without being an idiot about it. It'd be pretty obvious if every time a woman showed up she was a bimbo. But also GWS just seems to have an, I dunno.....almost pre "awareness of girls" state of mind where sex is rarely talked about and almost never acted on. I think it'd be an interesting case study to total the amount of words in 40k novels, like the average, that reference sex. Because I think it'd be a shockingly low amount.
Unless you consider the vast majority of Space Marine descriptions homo erotic >.>
Post by: scriver on May 14, 2016, 07:38:52 am
Unless you consider the vast majority of Space Marine descriptions homo erotic >.>
We very much do. :P
Post by: pisskop on May 14, 2016, 09:56:17 am
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2016, 10:10:43 am
I was sure that they birthed slaanesh by being dirty dirty romans and having orgies. Then dragons and spells to sink islands and then suddenly dark elves stabbing dwarves.Nah. Slaanesh was already around. The whole High Elf vs Dark Elf thing was that Malekith got incinerated in the ritual to become the phoenix king (apparently, according to end times, this was actually supposed to happen. The ones after his attempt cheated.) and got declared unworthy. He then threw a fit and started a civil war. All varieties of FB elves tend to not like Slaanesh, though the Dark Elves have more pleasure cults than most.
Post by: Retropunch on May 15, 2016, 03:54:07 pm
But also GWS just seems to have an, I dunno.....almost pre "awareness of girls" state of mind where sex is rarely talked about and almost never acted on. I think it'd be an interesting case study to total the amount of words in 40k novels, like the average, that reference sex. Because I think it'd be a shockingly low amount.
I actually went to an academic conference where that was talked about - not just W40k/the black library (although that was a large part of it), but fantasy in general. There's an avoidance of it in many parts of scifi/fantasy, but in other parts its wayyyy too OTT and super graphic. There doesn't seem to be much middle ground, and even the most normalised stuff tends to come across as strange or awkward in comparison to sex scenes in other fiction. There wasn't really a conclusion to the debate, just that it was very odd.
RE: mods: I'm hoping that non-warhammer fantasy mods will just be 'without the support of CA' but I strongly suspect it'll be a cease and desist bonanza. My big problem with all this though is that it's just another brick on the road of commercializing mods, because as soon as you've said you can't do this, you're one step away from saying you can if you pay us.
Most of all though, I don't really get where developers feel they're allowed to step in and tell people what they can and can't do with their property - once I've bought it, it's mine to do as I want with it. If I buy a toaster and decided to turn it into a spring-action automatic dildo launcher, Russell fucking Hobbs can't step in and tell me not to.
Post by: nenjin on May 15, 2016, 04:45:08 pm
Spoiler: Off topic (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on May 16, 2016, 03:05:04 am
RE: mods: I'm hoping that non-warhammer fantasy mods will just be 'without the support of CA' but I strongly suspect it'll be a cease and desist bonanza. My big problem with all this though is that it's just another brick on the road of commercializing mods, because as soon as you've said you can't do this, you're one step away from saying you can if you pay us.
I'm not sure what makes you think that when to make it legitimate CA would have to pay other people license fees to make it legitimate.
Post by: Retropunch on May 16, 2016, 02:30:16 pm
RE: mods: I'm hoping that non-warhammer fantasy mods will just be 'without the support of CA' but I strongly suspect it'll be a cease and desist bonanza. My big problem with all this though is that it's just another brick on the road of commercializing mods, because as soon as you've said you can't do this, you're one step away from saying you can if you pay us.
I'm not sure what makes you think that when to make it legitimate CA would have to pay other people license fees to make it legitimate.
I meant it in the broader sense, not that they'd make you pay to use other people's IPs, but more that they'll start saying that they can take a cut of all mods or stop ones they don't agree with arbitrarily. When mods were completely 'not the developers issue' then it didn't matter if people used other IPs (except if the IP holder objected) or what they did. Again, I've bought a product - you can't tell me what I can and can't do with it.
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 16, 2016, 02:33:03 pm
"You may buy this toaster, but on the condition that you do not turn it into a spring-action automatic dildo launcher. If you cannot live with that, buy your toaster elsewhere."
Post by: Retropunch on May 16, 2016, 02:51:03 pm
They can though if you agree beforehand on certain limitations, no?
"You may buy this toaster, but on the condition that you do not turn it into a spring-action automatic dildo launcher. If you cannot live with that, buy your toaster elsewhere."
Not really, you can't really enforce anything upon the customer that "limits their legal rights". In terms of product liability, the law even states that companies have to take into account that their product might not be used in the way intended when paying out damages (the age old example of people standing on tables).
It's honestly only gaming companies that feel they can do this, and they normally get blasted for it anyway (look at Nintendo's attempt to lock out non-patent cartridges). It's like the whole 'second hand games' thing - you can't restrict people from selling on other goods, yet game companies feel entitled to do so.
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 16, 2016, 02:57:37 pm
Post by: umiman on May 16, 2016, 03:05:53 pm
https://www.twitch.tv/totalwarofficial/profile
I think they're only missing Chaos right now.
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The Vampire one had me wondering, if you do a co-op campaign with someone playing as Von Carstein... how are you supposed to deal with his gigantic monstrosity early on? I'm gonna assume no one starts next to each other or something.
Post by: Teneb on May 16, 2016, 05:32:37 pm
The Vampire one had me wondering, if you do a co-op campaign with someone playing as Von Carstein... how are you supposed to deal with his gigantic monstrosity early on? I'm gonna assume no one starts next to each other or something.Dwarfs and orcs start pretty close to each other, but I think vampires, empire and chaos are somewhat distant. I'd say that the method to dealing with monsters is to either use an anti-monster unit like slayers, other monsters, or siege engines.
Post by: umiman on May 16, 2016, 05:51:09 pm
Now that you mention it, I think the other guys start with OP units too, not just Von Carstein. I believe the Slayer King starts with Slayers and Kholek Suneater starts with Dragonogres.The Vampire one had me wondering, if you do a co-op campaign with someone playing as Von Carstein... how are you supposed to deal with his gigantic monstrosity early on? I'm gonna assume no one starts next to each other or something.Dwarfs and orcs start pretty close to each other, but I think vampires, empire and chaos are somewhat distant. I'd say that the method to dealing with monsters is to either use an anti-monster unit like slayers, other monsters, or siege engines.
BTW, here are more misc info that I picked up here and there:
1. There's no army limits (like the old days). Instead, each lord increases the upkeep costs for all your armies by 5%.
2. All settlements can be upgraded with walls again, like in the old days. However, there are no battles in un-walled settlements and it will instead revert to a field battle if you do fight in one.
3. You can block artillery shots with flying units.
4. You can significantly upgrade the settlement garrisons now, but it costs a building slot to do it. We're talking big settlement defenses though with really strong, high tier units. It's probably because of this that they removed the army cap again as capital cities basically always have a full stack army on them and you can do the same with any other settlement if you want.
-------------------
Edit:
I just realized something very tactically interesting about the new sieges.
In the past, there was very little reason for you to leave the gates yourselves when defending against an army. You just waited for the enemy to attack your walls. Here however...
Towers do massively way more DPS than ever before and have infinite range. Even the level 1 base towers easily out DPS anything any other siege defense has ever been able to do in any Total War game. Also, the sieges are all limited to one or two sides now so there's really no escape from them. Lastly, their biggest weakness is that they cannot shoot anywhere except in front of them. So if you get on the walls or behind them, you're safe.
What this means is that you actually don't want them to reach your walls like before. You want them to stay out in the field getting absolutely shredded by the towers. You see what I'm getting at here?
Basically if you have loads of zombies, shitty cavalry, or shitty humans spears bogging down the enemy just outside your walls... the enemy is going to get obliterated. It's not like they can choose not to fight you. The towers have infinite range and you can't exactly flank the crap units as you're probably stuck with big siege towers and if you go around them they'll just attack you in the rear.
Post by: Rose on May 17, 2016, 10:48:14 am
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 17, 2016, 10:52:26 am
Post by: scriver on May 17, 2016, 11:02:34 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 17, 2016, 11:21:51 am
The player can move units outside of the walls, and I would assume deploy them outside as well if they've got that ambushing trait. Whether the A.I. can, I would assume so but I don't think it's something that has popped up. It'll be interesting whether the A.I. does this with flying units that can fly over the walls without opening the gates and risking enemies going through.
Post by: umiman on May 17, 2016, 12:00:31 pm
What happens if a siege tower encounters enemy infantry though? Does it stand still, or does it plow through and push the puny people out of the way? And can regular melee infantry even damage the tower?In Medieval 2, units wouldn't actually board the tower while they pushed it so you could intercept them as they pushed it along.
In Rome 2 if your unit size was small everyone would be inside the tower and you couldn't stop it. Though, I'm not too sure, but I think you can actually burn it and other siege engines down just like with gates. If your unit size was massive, you'd have a few guys sitting outside the tower and you could attack those guys to stop it.
In Warhammer, it seems units are all inside the tower. No clue how to stop it but I suspect it's the same as before.
------------
One thing to note is that this game seems to have lower system requirements than the previous few in the series. Probably because they dropped the whole "1v1 duels" thing they started doing since Shogun 2. Now it's back to the massive clusterfuck that is Medieval 2.
I noticed that the guys on Yogscast were playing the game on Ultra even though they were using 780ti's (https://youtu.be/cA0UmptI-f8?t=1h21m30s).
Post by: pisskop on May 17, 2016, 12:24:23 pm
Post by: umiman on May 17, 2016, 12:25:15 pm
1v1s were kind of silly.Yeah. It made sense in Shogun 2 because honestly, that's what they did back then in Feudal Japan.
But in Rome 2? It was kinda dumb.
Post by: lordcooper on May 17, 2016, 08:47:45 pm
Post by: pisskop on May 17, 2016, 08:50:12 pm
But then again that sounds like prime DLC material. And the ai needs to be made to use it in a not-terrible manner.
Post by: Teneb on May 17, 2016, 09:16:56 pm
Post by: umiman on May 17, 2016, 09:52:39 pm
...
Not that I was trying to preorder or anything. I mean, I never preorder stuff what are you talking about.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 17, 2016, 10:19:46 pm
It sort of worked in Mark of Chaos. Though the Lords there were built around the concept of duels.
I found the duelling system in Mark of Chaos split my focus to winning either the duel or the army battle. Generals had abilities that kind of countered each other from what I remember with a short stun and one that bolstered your next attack or similar things. I spent the duels clicking random buttons as there didn't seem to be much difference between them but focusing on that meant I wasn't ordering my units around.
There's still animations for some units defeating others. Giants pick up and bite the heads off infantry, Vargulf's slam guys into the ground. Louen Leoncoeur, in the Bretonnia siege video, leapt onto and stabbed a Crypt Horror. There was also the Arachnarok spider eating a soldier and spitting out the sword and shield afterwards.
Post by: Majestic7 on May 18, 2016, 02:59:49 am
Post by: umiman on May 18, 2016, 03:30:44 am
If all guys are inside the siege towers, how the fuck do they move? Lots and lots of bicycles inside? Well, maybe for orcish towers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Radio Controlled on May 18, 2016, 03:44:20 am
What happens if a siege tower encounters enemy infantry though? Does it stand still, or does it plow through and push the puny people out of the way? And can regular melee infantry even damage the tower?In Medieval 2, units wouldn't actually board the tower while they pushed it so you could intercept them as they pushed it along.
In Rome 2 if your unit size was small everyone would be inside the tower and you couldn't stop it. Though, I'm not too sure, but I think you can actually burn it and other siege engines down just like with gates. If your unit size was massive, you'd have a few guys sitting outside the tower and you could attack those guys to stop it.
In Warhammer, it seems units are all inside the tower. No clue how to stop it but I suspect it's the same as before.
So for the siege towers, apart from getting your units to damage it a bit with their torch mechanic, putting dudes outside the gates doesn't help that much? Though maybe if you can get another 'large' unit out there (steam tank, ogre, stuff like that) it can block the way and prevent a tower from advancing.
Quote
One thing to note is that this game seems to have lower system requirements than the previous few in the series. Probably because they dropped the whole "1v1 duels" thing they started doing since Shogun 2. Now it's back to the massive clusterfuck that is Medieval 2.
I noticed that the guys on Yogscast were playing the game on Ultra even though they were using 780ti's (https://youtu.be/cA0UmptI-f8?t=1h21m30s).
While I kinda liked the duel thing in shogun 2, removing it means i might be able to play this thing on my laptop! So that's good (since the other game I wanted to play, battlefleet gothic armada, probably can't run).
Post by: Mech#4 on May 18, 2016, 04:28:54 am
I think this is a necessary change concerning Warhammer. Vampire Counts in particular have no ranged units so the towers have to pick up that slack if you don't want to sally out.
All infantry are also able to scale walls using ladders that they deploy when right clicking on the walls. However, using the ladders gives a debuff to stats when they fight on top of the walls so it's preferable to spend the time to build the siege towers before hand.
I'd imagine using skirmish cavalry would be useful to harass enemy siege weapons. Outriders with grenade launchers in particular, as well as bombing runs by gyrocopters, not to mention magic spells cast from a mage on a Pegasus.
Post by: Teneb on May 18, 2016, 05:33:52 am
not to mention magic spells cast from a mage on a Pegasus.Bright wizards will probably be pretty good as anti-siege.
Post by: Teneb on May 18, 2016, 12:34:59 pm
Post by: umiman on May 18, 2016, 02:47:40 pm
Double post, I guess, but it's been about... 7 hours since then? Chaos Dragon OP, please nerf (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1IYXPE5tLs). I wonder how expensive this unit will even be.Well then...
At least Galrauch isn't showing up. =|
Post by: Criptfeind on May 18, 2016, 10:44:15 pm
I wonder how expensive this unit will even be.
Looks like it's a mount. Maybe even a legendary lord only mount? So, probably cheap but rare?
Post by: Retropunch on May 19, 2016, 02:38:26 am
While I kinda liked the duel thing in shogun 2, removing it means i might be able to play this thing on my laptop! So that's good (since the other game I wanted to play, battlefleet gothic armada, probably can't run).
Just as an aside, you'll definitely be able to play Battlefleet gothic if you can play this. I think they made the recommended specs wayyyy too high - I'm playing it on high on a pretty old laptop (lenovo Z50), and I know a friend is playing it on low on an ancient one. You can pretty much lower the graphics to the point of two rectangles bashing at each other if you need to.
Post by: umiman on May 19, 2016, 11:41:47 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, reviews are out.
40 steam tanks vs goblins. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiFy9FjuF9Q)
-----------
Edit: A hundred teef says that the "herald" aka the tutorial guy that introduces every faction is the Lord of Change from the intro.
Post by: Teneb on May 19, 2016, 01:23:02 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 21, 2016, 09:28:57 pm
As if it is a gift or present.
Post by: umiman on May 21, 2016, 10:03:44 pm
I wonder how the Lord of Change will appear. He's not in the WoC roster, so...He'll probably show up as an end game thing like Realm Divide or Civil War.
---------
In anticipation of this game, I've gone on a pretty crazy binge of Fall of the Samurai. I got all the historical battle achievements. Completed the Imperial grand campaign on legendary (With mods. I can't handle it without as the AI cheatspams stacks of Armstrong guns on vanilla. I'm not pro enough to deal with that shit.). Almost finished a run of an independent nation.
I think next is Napoleon? It's the only other good one that has guns in it. I guess Medieval 2 has guns too but I'm a bit too lazy to deal with Stainless Steel right now.
I think it'll be kinda funny when I get into Warhammer and the units don't die in one hit from a gun.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 22, 2016, 04:33:04 am
Plus I guess the sheer variety of the factions, rather than having green romans vs blue romans vs red romans, makes up for it but 5 seems a little spare for Total War. I can't be Tomb Kings or Skaven or Daos Chorfs.
Post by: pisskop on May 22, 2016, 06:52:37 am
theres a w sound in there
Post by: umiman on May 22, 2016, 12:40:32 pm
So the dueling is out but are sync-kills still in? There were still sync-kills in Medieval 2 even if it didn't have all the dudes pair up and swordfight (which to be honest I don't think is all that realistic even for samurai. Way of the horse and bow, not way of the katana, and all)Yeah, there still are sync kills especially for monstrous units.
Plus I guess the sheer variety of the factions, rather than having green romans vs blue romans vs red romans, makes up for it but 5 seems a little spare for Total War. I can't be Tomb Kings or Skaven or Daos Chorfs.
And yeah, if you think about it, Rome 2 was:
1. Romans
2. Greeks
3. Desert people
4. Barbarians
5. Horse Archers
Post by: dennislp3 on May 22, 2016, 01:28:52 pm
Obviously there are a few missing races that should not be missing....Tomb Kings, Skaven, Beastmen, and Elves (high and dark)
To be fair I will give them credit for starting out with a lot of free DLC...which is a nice and respectable change from simply raping us from day one of more money for things that should already be in the game...I think paying for a game then having to pay for any content within a month or two of its release its just plain poor form.
Post by: umiman on May 22, 2016, 02:50:27 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 22, 2016, 03:25:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 22, 2016, 04:51:06 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 22, 2016, 05:39:47 pm
With the current map, what could be in DLC (paid or not) is: Bretonnia (confirmed), Kislev, Tilea/Estalia, Border Princes, Norsca, Beastmen, Skaven, and Wood Elves (maybe also Daemons (though I have no idea how)). Everyone else is, to some degree, outside the current map.
From the numbers they gave they likely are going to add the Codex armies, so Beastmen, Wood Elves, and possibly Daemons, maybe some neutrals getting some minor unique stuff.
Post by: Teneb on May 22, 2016, 05:46:49 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 22, 2016, 05:54:15 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 22, 2016, 05:59:50 pm
So has anyone actually played it yet??
Post by: Teneb on May 22, 2016, 06:47:47 pm
I can't imagine them going further out than Skaven and Elves - all the other ones aren't really popular enough to warrant a DLC (I could only barely remember what Kislev were) and I doubt they'd be able to add much to differentiate them. Interesting if modders pick them up though.I don't think any of us are youtubers or reviewers, so no. It's only out in about 36 hours. However, preloading is available.
So has anyone actually played it yet??
EDIT: Been reading reviews, and the overall feeling is that the game is good. Main criticisms are low faction number (though this is understandable), simplified economy (one (RPS, I think?) compared it to Medieval 2's), and, of course, the AI. On the last one, it seems that while not as... problematic as in the other games, it can still be somewhat quirky.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 22, 2016, 10:30:56 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 22, 2016, 10:43:42 pm
From what I've read, Warhammer has more in common with Attila than Rome 2. Sacking and raiding is more of a staple of income in Attila than it was in Rome 2 as it's harder to get a good economy going for quite a few factions. Expansion is much harder in Attila as well with population happiness, religion and food being large limiters. There's also a mechanic where as other provinces get razed to the ground, refugees move to neighbouring provinces and increase instability. While I don't think most of these mechanics are in Warhammer, the lower focus on taking over the world and more surviving until a set date seems to be the same.
Post by: Tack on May 23, 2016, 10:46:01 am
Post by: Teneb on May 23, 2016, 12:31:57 pm
So wait.. I don't get to play as Konrad Von Carstein?Not at first. Maybe he'll pop up later as a freeLC/Paid DLC Lord, but right now the VCs get to choose between Manny and Kemmler.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 23, 2016, 01:13:15 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 23, 2016, 01:23:28 pm
I would like to have Konrad as a Legendary Lord though. Crazy melee whirlwind that he is.
Post by: Retropunch on May 23, 2016, 01:51:41 pm
More than that, I can't imagine them doing a 'warhammer 2' for a while, so I imagine they'll want to jam in most of the favorites.
Post by: Tack on May 23, 2016, 02:43:49 pm
If I'm remembering right, this game is based loosely on the timeline in which Franz consolidated the empire?
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 23, 2016, 07:58:49 pm
A few people are complaining about not having Vlad..
If I'm remembering right, this game is based loosely on the timeline in which Franz consolidated the empire?
Yeah, Vlad's been dead for a while and won't really come back till the End Times.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 23, 2016, 09:53:17 pm
I think it would be a bigger disappointment not to include heroes because of timeline issues than include them and have anachronistic match ups.
Post by: umiman on May 23, 2016, 10:25:05 pm
Post by: Tack on May 23, 2016, 11:02:52 pm
... Bad derail. Sorry.
Post by: Man of Paper on May 23, 2016, 11:08:01 pm
Anyways, I forgot what today's date was and so I was at work thinking about how great it's going to be to play TW:WH when I get home. I got home and saw that I was a whole day off. Now I have to suffer through the same feelings again tomorrow.
Post by: Tack on May 23, 2016, 11:10:27 pm
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 23, 2016, 11:13:27 pm
Post by: umiman on May 23, 2016, 11:43:57 pm
Single and only benefit to being an Australian gamer: Rolling ReleasesIt's not rolling mate. Global release time. Specifically 2 hours and 20 minutes.
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 12:49:54 am
I guess Steam has the last word.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 12:57:22 am
Mine's 10 hours away.Feel free to express your joy in 1 hour.
I guess Steam has the last word.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 24, 2016, 01:10:16 am
Eh, the only character in 40k who is 'dead' is Eldrad, and they retconned that because people complained. All of their named characters are very current. You cannot play Commisar Greiss or Solar Macharias, and they've now released 30k as a differently balanced game altogether so the more powerful characters from the earlier timeline don't interfere with the weaker ones of the latter.
... Bad derail. Sorry.
Actually... They just recently killed off Aun'Va, and part of the Eight of Farsight, and Canis Wolfborn. It seems they are letting named Special Characters die at will now for 40k even.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 01:17:18 am
I should just refund on the spot.
There is nothing of value in this game for me... It is Empire Total War all over again... When Medieval Total War was my favorite (and to this date... still the "best" experience I had with the series... Well Medieval 2 total war)
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 01:24:15 am
And Corvin Severax, too.Eh, the only character in 40k who is 'dead' is Eldrad, and they retconned that because people complained. All of their named characters are very current. You cannot play Commisar Greiss or Solar Macharias, and they've now released 30k as a differently balanced game altogether so the more powerful characters from the earlier timeline don't interfere with the weaker ones of the latter.Actually... They just recently killed off Aun'Va, and part of the Eight of Farsight, and Canis Wolfborn. It seems they are letting named Special Characters die at will now for 40k even.
Question- How many of those actually had profiles/models?
There is nothing of value in this game for me... It is Empire Total War all over again... When Medieval Total War was my favorite (and to this date... still the "best" experience I had with the series... Well Medieval 2 total war)That's nice. The preorder special deal seems to have been extended into the time past the release date, so you literally could just watch someone play and see whether or not it is trash before re-buying it.
I, personally, have rather high hopes for it.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 01:30:56 am
Since it is just the Empire Total War system again.
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 01:41:25 am
Maybe they've learned their mistake since then. Then again, Sega Assembly isn't my favourite pairing so far.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 01:42:25 am
To play a Warhammer-based game Without heroes would raise a far greater outcry, you realize?
Maybe they've learned their mistake since then. Then again, Sega Assembly isn't my favourite pairing so far.
You could still have heroes.
---
Ehh instead of just assuming how they work. I just asked Steam how they work.
If the answer is positive, I'll keep my pre-order... But if it comes up that they are static or bought... I'll get that refund.
---
Answer was Purchased heroes. Refunds AWAY!
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 24, 2016, 01:57:37 am
Quote
And Corvin Severax, too.
Question- How many of those actually had profiles/models?
Canis Wolfborn, Aun'Va, and the Eight had profiles in the Farsight Supplement Book. Severax was basically never really around and everyone thought Shrike was the Chapter Master half the time anyways.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 02:00:50 am
Post by: lordcooper on May 24, 2016, 02:00:58 am
Ugh, why did I bother getting this game? I know it won't be any good and will be buggy on release and the entire reason I got it is for "Multiplayer" that won't be available in a worthwhile fashion.This is the most Neonivek post ever.
I should just refund on the spot.
There is nothing of value in this game for me... It is Empire Total War all over again... When Medieval Total War was my favorite (and to this date... still the "best" experience I had with the series... Well Medieval 2 total war)
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 02:03:52 am
I was feeling particularly bad and felt like I was being made to get it (only to find out, no I didn't). So I looked up information to see if this is the kind of game I want to get.
It really wasn't.
Post by: Man of Paper on May 24, 2016, 02:04:33 am
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 02:04:59 am
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 02:08:28 am
So I see. I wonder how many will be in the 8th edition rules?QuoteAnd Corvin Severax, too.
Question- How many of those actually had profiles/models?
Canis Wolfborn, Aun'Va, and the Eight had profiles in the Farsight Supplement Book. Severax was basically never really around and everyone thought Shrike was the Chapter Master half the time anyways.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 02:17:44 am
I am actually trying to think of one that worked that wasn't "just as fast as redownloading the game on release"
Post by: Man of Paper on May 24, 2016, 02:17:56 am
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 02:26:18 am
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 05:10:13 am
To admit, it was supposed to be boring... but still.
Look, enjoy the game. I am just frustrated because I am being forced to buy things lately >_<, I wouldn't care so much about this otherwise.
Now I just have to not buy Overwatch and not buy tickets to Wonderland and I'll be safe from buying things I don't want.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 24, 2016, 05:41:17 am
Post by: Teneb on May 24, 2016, 05:48:42 am
because I am being forced to buy things latelyUh... no, you are not being forced to buy anything?
Anyway, too bad I'll only be able to play (got university) about 3-4 hours from now.
Been reading steam reviews. There are actually quite a few negative ones, though they all boil down to "it doesn't run on my computer".
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 09:56:59 am
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 24, 2016, 11:32:42 am
Getting to have a go at this in a bit. Probably starting as Vampire Counts for all that necromantic aristocratic goodness.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 12:16:36 pm
Turns out it was because of the shitty Denuvo DRM. So I started again in offline mode after updating my Nvidia drivers. Now it runs like a dream.
I have an i5 with GTX 970. Everything ultra except shadows (high) and antialiasing (MLAA). In battle zoomed up I get about 45fps. Outside it everything is 60fps.
--------------
Played a bunch of custom battles because I wanted to test the graphics but it was so fun I continued playing. Chaos is crazy. Their units are so, so, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more expensive than everyone else's but they're so bleeding strong. I defeated a greenskin army 4x my size (seriously, I had 500 men and they had 2000). Vampire Counts are also a blast to play. You'd think they wouldn't have any voices but it turns out there's some sort of ethereal voice in the sky going "DIE DIE DIE" and stuff. Also they do some serious hurt. Cairn Wraiths are crazy. It's also amusing how Heinrich Kemmler keeps talking about Krell even though Krell isn't in the game (incoming DLC?).
Sigvald is awesome and hilarious. His shield also actually reflects the terrain...
I noticed everyone routs really easily now. I normally don't mind low morale but this is a bit excessive I think. I'd like to mod it out. However, I noticed that because everyone routs so easily, it's a good idea to have some shitty fast moving units like bats around just to harass all the routers so they never come back. I sent a Chaos Champion on a manticore to harass Karl Franz a bit. The dude routed in like... 20 seconds. He was at 3/4ths hp too. He never came back either... just flew off the map. Dude, you're supposed to be a paragon of Chaos. Wtf is your cowardice?
My initial impressions with flying units is that they're a great tactical asset but almost worthless in a melee fight. So you should only ever use them to flank things and kill off ranged. Or in the case of bats, just to bog down dudes and chase people around.
I also really like the ability to remove foliage. I can actually see inside the forests!
------------
I think CA gave copies of the game early to all the modders as well. There are so many on launch.
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 24, 2016, 12:59:55 pm
Hotfix has killed my sound and made the game stutter constantly, where it was working fine on release. mildly annoyed.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 01:54:17 pm
I know modders and streamers got it early, yeah.Alt tab when it happens and it should fix it.
Hotfix has killed my sound and made the game stutter constantly, where it was working fine on release. mildly annoyed.
Apparently it has something to do with Nvidia drivers (and lack thereof)
Post by: ragnar119 on May 24, 2016, 02:05:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 24, 2016, 02:14:19 pm
Reviews are extremely mixed on steam. Apparently the game has a lot of technical problems and bugsMostly Nvidia-related, it seems. I've yet to see any problems. I can't judge how good the AI is because I myself am pretty bad at the game.
Playing empire (Karl Franz). Took perhaps too long to kill the secessionists since I had to chase a savage orc mob all over reikland. Still, they're done for and Averland is next.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 24, 2016, 02:22:38 pm
Post by: Man of Paper on May 24, 2016, 02:23:16 pm
Post by: PrimusRibbus on May 24, 2016, 02:26:54 pm
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 02:31:18 pm
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 02:33:42 pm
Things went fairly well at first, then massive debt and a slew of grudges. I was keeping my head above water barely, helping my dwarfport neighbour fend off Grimgor's waaagh.
Friend wanted to play co-op, I was like "sweet!".
A half-hour of soft-freezes later, and I'm in. We wanted to play vampire counts together, but unfortunately the game doesn't go for that. So, bearing in mind various corruption mechanics which would've made playing co-op downright awful, he went empire, and I went dwarfs again, this time with chairman.
Complete turnaround. The fellow clans were standoffish yet hyperconpetent, I managed to snag the city of brightgold to the north-east, and still return in a timely manner, and the early access to siege weapons meant that within 20 turns I had bitchslapped grimgor out of his big boots and taken almost every Orc city south of me whilst paying off a cool 3000 to my empire ally every turn for shiggles, because we were so far apart it was essentially the only help I could give.
Unsure if it's an unbalance of the legendary leaders or just blind luck, as the difficulty was the exact same both times.
But yes, would very much like to play co-op as two seperate roving hordes of chaos.
(Some IP's may be slightly different in the above novella because despite playing for 12 hours the names of most people simply haven't sunk in.)
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 02:36:00 pm
Played my first game as dwarfs, playing Gringor Ironfistaxebeard because screw playing as someone who can't get off their chair.There's a mod out that puts all legendary Lords at different starting positions so you can co-op the same faction.
Things went fairly well at first, then massive debt and a slew of grudges. I was keeping my head above water barely, helping my dwarfport neighbour fend off Grimgor's waaagh.
Friend wanted to play co-op, I was like "sweet!".
A half-hour of soft-freezes later, and I'm in. We wanted to play vampire counts together, but unfortunately the game doesn't go for that. So, bearing in mind various corruption mechanics which would've made playing co-op downright awful, he went empire, and I went dwarfs again, this time with chairman.
Complete turnaround. The fellow clans were standoffish yet hyperconpetent, I managed to snag the city of brightgold to the north-east, and still return in a timely manner, and the early access to siege weapons meant that within 20 turns I had bitchslapped grimgor out of his big boots and taken almost every Orc city south of me whilst paying off a cool 3000 to my empire ally every turn for shiggles, because we were so far apart it was essentially the only help I could give.
Unsure if it's an unbalance of the legendary leaders or just blind luck, as the difficulty was the exact same both times.
But yes, would very much like to play co-op as two seperate roving hordes of chaos.
Post by: Teneb on May 24, 2016, 02:41:41 pm
Though the mod doesn't extend to WoC, so keep that in mind.-snip-There's a mod out that puts all legendary Lords at different starting positions so you can co-op the same faction.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 04:06:20 pm
So what happens when you fight a faction's holdings that isn't your own?
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 04:08:36 pm
Now the game says you can only take SPECIFIC faction's holdings.You can raze it or pillage it or download the mod that lets you capture it.
So what happens when you fight a faction's holdings that isn't your own?
CA said they did that because it made no sense for humans to live in Karaks or Ork camps but made a day 1 mod available for people who want to do that.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 04:14:43 pm
CA said they did that because it made no sense for humans to live in Karaks or Ork camps but made a day 1 mod available for people who want to do that.
It is a lie (by CA), but whatever :P
I have no idea what the real reason is though.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 04:30:23 pm
How on earth is it a lie?CA said they did that because it made no sense for humans to live in Karaks or Ork camps but made a day 1 mod available for people who want to do that.
It is a lie (by CA), but whatever :P
I have no idea what the real reason is though.
There's a mod that enables it from day 1, which CA commissioned and was actually out even before the game itself came out.
They did actually say they thought it'd be too strange for humans or dwarves to live in each other's places.
Where is the lie?
Neonivek, what is wrong with you seriously.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 04:37:52 pm
Post by: Folly on May 24, 2016, 04:45:19 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on May 24, 2016, 05:25:45 pm
Look, I just don't believe them.
What are they lying about? This is getting into conspiracy theory territory. I think CA lies, so they definitely made capturing weird territory unavailable for nefarious reasons. I think the government lies, so obviously 9/11 was an inside job.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 05:35:23 pm
Look, I just don't believe them.
What are they lying about? This is getting into conspiracy theory territory. I think CA lies, so they definitely made capturing weird territory unavailable for nefarious reasons. I think the government lies, so obviously 9/11 was an inside job.
I honestly don't believe the reason why you can't take "Any" Land is because of this "It would be weird" excuse... but rather as a way to funnel the gameplay in a very specific direction AND a way to not have to put extra effort putting in extra mechanics.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 05:38:58 pm
I found that in the early game at least, there is almost no real technique available to you to kill off enemy heroes so they can easily rampage through your lines unchecked. The only option available to you therefore is to bog them down with some crappy units (you can't disengage in this as easily as other Total Wars) and then focus them down with every single ranged unit you have for about 5 minutes until they die.
I think later on you get much better units capable of fighting heroes.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 05:42:50 pm
I think later on you get much better units capable of fighting heroes.
It is pretty much how all the Total Wars go.
Well OK... There were Pikemen. who were the only things that kept generals back in the early game.
Post by: Teneb on May 24, 2016, 05:51:10 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on May 24, 2016, 05:55:49 pm
I think later on you get much better units capable of fighting heroes.
It is pretty much how all the Total Wars go.
Well OK... There were Pikemen. who were the only things that kept generals back in the early game.
the all generals stack of doom :P
Post by: Persus13 on May 24, 2016, 06:03:30 pm
In other total wars, generals can die pretty easy. The only exception I remember was Medieval 2 where high-level generals were godlike. I had a siege where every single unit died except my general (yes, even his bodyguards). He just rampaged through the mongol lines killing all their melee units. He eventually fell to their horse archers, but not before killing pretty much everything else.The Third Age mod has this for generals like Gandalf. I've seen battles where he did this sort of thing.
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2016, 06:39:31 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on May 24, 2016, 06:45:32 pm
Minor lords seem to be random. It'd be fun if there were a way to create your own Legendary Lord and play a more custom campaign.
Post by: Stuebi on May 24, 2016, 06:49:17 pm
I think the general "Lord Balance" is a bit whack at the moment. Grimgor is a very angry, green mass murderer right out of the gate. While Azhag has to hide like a little girl in most fights because he tanks like a wet tissue and hits like blind stuntie without arms. Maybe its to make up for the fact that later Azhag get's to ride a Mount and cast.
Same goes for Mannfred vs Kemmler. The former plows trough entire stacks without breaking a nail, while the latter usually get's a comfy seat somewhere behind the lines and cast something occasionally.
The AI also carried over some bad habits from previous TW games. Greenskins vs Dwarves is supposed to be an obvious Quantity vs Quality game. But the AI controlled Dwarves seem to conjure money literally out of the ther to sustain same sized armies as me. Once you border on multiple Dwarv Factions, you have to deal with full stacks of bearded murderers every couple turns, with barely a moment of respite. It's sad that only Chaos get's the Horde mechanic. I'd actually like it if you could opt to not bother holding stuff with Greenskins and instead focus on raiding/sacking.
Don't take that as a really bad point tough. The battles that I got out of the game are beyond entertaining, they nailed the atmosphere pretty well. And the game is just... surprisingly good in general, considering we're talking about CA here.
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2016, 07:09:17 pm
And yeah, the AI cheats. It's how it always is in TW games. I think only normal difficulty they don't. In battle, anything higher than normal they get better stats on their units (to the point where on legendary, a single AI basic unit can outperform your top tier guys). On the campaign they usually get free upkeep and cheatspawn units. It's not particularly bad on hard but on very hard and especially legendary it can get crazy. They don't get these on normal.
It kinda annoys me but meh... you can't really expect it any different when it's been this way for almost two decades.
p.s: There are quite a number of skills and spells that can one or two shot fully levelled legendary lords. The witch hunter's accuse is one (it's free and does about 50% of Grimgor's health in one shot). Curse of Bjuna is another. I'm sure there are others but those are the ones I've seen personally.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 07:49:59 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on May 24, 2016, 08:11:53 pm
Buffed up Lords become literal Damage Sponges later on. If you stack a decent amount of Meele Defence and Armor onto one, they will take an INCREDIBLE amount of punishment before going down.
I think the general "Lord Balance" is a bit whack at the moment. Grimgor is a very angry, green mass murderer right out of the gate. While Azhag has to hide like a little girl in most fights because he tanks like a wet tissue and hits like blind stuntie without arms. Maybe its to make up for the fact that later Azhag get's to ride a Mount and cast.
Same goes for Mannfred vs Kemmler. The former plows trough entire stacks without breaking a nail, while the latter usually get's a comfy seat somewhere behind the lines and cast something occasionally.
The AI also carried over some bad habits from previous TW games. Greenskins vs Dwarves is supposed to be an obvious Quantity vs Quality game. But the AI controlled Dwarves seem to conjure money literally out of the ther to sustain same sized armies as me. Once you border on multiple Dwarv Factions, you have to deal with full stacks of bearded murderers every couple turns, with barely a moment of respite. It's sad that only Chaos get's the Horde mechanic. I'd actually like it if you could opt to not bother holding stuff with Greenskins and instead focus on raiding/sacking.
Don't take that as a really bad point tough. The battles that I got out of the game are beyond entertaining, they nailed the atmosphere pretty well. And the game is just... surprisingly good in general, considering we're talking about CA here.
Mannfred is an immortal vampire lord and one of the most powerful beings in the world, Kemmler is just a necromancer, he isn't even a vampire.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 08:14:12 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 24, 2016, 08:14:32 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 24, 2016, 08:42:23 pm
That and he buffs up troops just by being there, you've got a frontline commander and one that's more of a buffer/caster typically.Chaos seems to be the exception, with all three being melee monsters of varying degrees of metaphor.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 24, 2016, 09:33:08 pm
Frustrating that Denuvo's causing problems. On the bright side, word on the street is that 3DM has it beat and is just keeping it on the DL so the developers don't know what to patch.
Archaon is sick. Abaddon but competent. Playing anybody else aside from maybe Kholek Suneater would feel weird. Sigmund or whatever definitely doesn't feel like the world-ending warmaster of chaos the setting demands.
Post by: Teneb on May 24, 2016, 09:39:03 pm
Sigmund or whatever definitely doesn't feel like the world-ending warmaster of chaos the setting demands.Sigvald may not be that, but he is fabulous enough to compensate for it.
Post by: Neonivek on May 24, 2016, 09:47:18 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 25, 2016, 12:24:59 am
Post by: Neonivek on May 25, 2016, 01:09:55 am
Considering this 'Advisor' can join with the Greenskins
What? Humans can't be with Orcs, that is just weird :P
Calling it! He isn't human!
Otherwise he would have contracted a horrible rash and died.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 01:55:00 am
And the worst part is the distance you have to travel. The Empire itself is frigging massive. It takes forever to run from one side to another trying to staunch threats before another asshole razes another settlement because he could.
Post by: Majestic7 on May 25, 2016, 02:01:43 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 25, 2016, 02:06:37 am
Also dwarfs tromping through my lands with holds I can't reasonably attack without committing a full army. Stirland keeps stirring up trouble with them.
I do like that they gave the Kislev diplomat an accent.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 02:15:23 am
Isn't that exactly what the Empire is supposed to feel like?Yeah more or less. It's pretty amusing though a bit stressful.
I imagine they're probably the hardest faction to play. I really cannot imagine the other dudes being harder than them.
By the way, once you get big enough, all the elector counts will beg to be under your rule. This isn't a particularly great thing though as the only real benefits are you get some nicely levelled lords (though the AI likes to randomly level) and all their holdings without having to fight for them.
However, you get a pretty huge public order penalty for all your holdings for 5 turns and all the other elector counts will hate you temporarily. Also now you have all these random holdings that are barely protected along with all these random lords sitting about that you have to sort out. I honestly think it's a bigger headache than it's worth. I'd rather conquer them slowly and guarantee my control and money rather than that. Since when you conquer holdings yourself you get loot to help build the buildings and stuff not to mention you get levels and experience and so on.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 25, 2016, 03:57:39 am
Also, since this seems to be an End Times game if not in name, with Archaon and Grimgor and all the Big Bads, I wonder if the Vampire campaign will have Nagash returning as a late-game event.
Also, anybody know who Not Medivh is supposed to be? Absent any other evidence, I'm guessing he's Tzeentch or associated with Tzeentch.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 25, 2016, 04:32:31 am
Post by: Teneb on May 25, 2016, 05:41:17 am
Also, anybody know who Not Medivh is supposed to be? Absent any other evidence, I'm guessing he's Tzeentch or associated with Tzeentch.He could be the Changeling, or the possessed light wizard from the intro.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 25, 2016, 07:21:43 am
Was doing pretty good but since it's total war they decided to just give everyone but me three or four full-bar doomstacks. This sucks. It also means I can never start new hordes, because they get instagibbed as soon as they think about doing something worthwhile.
Jesus fucking Christ. This time I sent my guy deep into no-man's-land to try to give him time to buidl up his forces, but a doomstack went /around/ Kholek and killed him, cause all the enemies have infinite campaign movement while my guys struggle to walk up a hill without dying.
Playing Chaos is like being Attila, if Attila didn't have any guys and got his ass kicked as soon as he walked out of his tent.
Post by: nenjin on May 25, 2016, 10:07:01 am
Post by: Cthulhu on May 25, 2016, 10:13:07 am
If I hadn't spend the first 30 turns or so playing grabass up north and hit the weak provinces hard instead I probably would've been stronger. I had a doomstack too, I just hadn't taken advantage of the window of opportunity to get more than one so I was playing catchup.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 25, 2016, 10:20:23 am
Uniting Reikland being the early goal, after that was getting trading agreements and the infrastructure to build better units. Come a chaos invasion, the divided empire states faired badly and lost quite a lot of provinces. Being the strongest left after this I've found the states much more agreeable to confederation and defensive alliances.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 12:12:04 pm
"why do my damage spells suck?"
or
"why do my damage spells seem so overpowered?"
The answer is that unit HP is tied to unit size. So a lord can get oneshot by a spell on small or normal but survive with 2/3rds health on ultra.
I hope this gets fixed.
Though all the aura and buff spells are still pretty crazy. The celestial wizard can basically nerf an entire army to the ground with one overcast spell that reduces their damage to like... nothing. Oh hey, Kholek Suneater. Nice damage you got there. Would be a shame if I reduced it to... a goblin's level.
So I guess in that sense, the more units you have the more useless damage spells become and more powerful buff / debuffs are.
I still want the big damage spells like the comet to actually hurt. Right now they just kinda scatter people about.
Post by: Teneb on May 25, 2016, 12:28:57 pm
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 12:33:15 pm
I'm having quite a lot of fun with the empire campaign like mech#4.
I haven't won yet. I keep restarting because I don't like the holes I keep digging for myself. It's fine. Better than a simple linear campaign
Post by: Vendayn on May 25, 2016, 12:43:39 pm
So next game on my top want list is warhammer total war. Generally, I kinda like more diplomacy/espionage/economy focused strategy games (like EU4 and CK2 being my two #1 and #2 favorite strategy games of all time), but I loved Rome 2 (after all the DLCS) and Attila (even vanilla Attila is epic) and previous Total Wars.
Is the game pretty good out of the box? I know rome 2 needed a lot of work at release, but Attila even without DLCs is a ton of fun. My favorite part of Attila is playing as western romans and playing survival mode lol.
Only thing I see judging by posts, is AI cheats a lot, so I'd probably just play normal mode. Thats what I did on Rome 2 and Attila, just normal mode. Not a big fan of cheating AI. Even in Eu4 I always turn off lucky nations lol. But other than that, the game looks actually really good for a newly released total war game. And seems to be getting good reviews.
Except it WOULD cost 59.99 to buy it, which is every thing my friend gave me :P
I don't have any other games I'd want to buy besides stellaris or warhammer total war. And I marked off stellaris, so yeah lol. Just fallout 4 dlc, but gonna wait for all DLC in one pack. Ark survival looks okay, but meh. Kinda bored of the (sorta) RPG style survival games after playing so much RUST. And thats pretty much it for games I'm currently have any vague interest in lol.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 25, 2016, 01:03:11 pm
I hope I get some help from patches, if nothing else helps.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 01:05:27 pm
I thought I'd be blitzing through the game but I haven't even managed to complete one very hard Empire run yet (restarted like 3 times) when I would have been done legendary in any other Total War.
No performance issues on my end.
It's been simplified in some areas and made more complicated in others but overall it's very fun for me. I like that there are mods as well, so I can just happily mod out things I don't like. For example, I'm sure Radious has a mod out that will let you reduce or remove the cheating AI. For my next run I'm going to double the amount of skill points your guys get per level.
My main problem is the loading times. It takes ages on my external harddrive. I wish I had a SSD...
Post by: ZeroGravitas on May 25, 2016, 01:06:34 pm
How is everyone liking this? I have 59.99 in my steam wallet (thanks to my friend), that I was thinking of spending on Stellaris. But I think I won't be getting Stellaris for a while, if at all.
Yeah, Stellaris won't be worthwhile for another 6 months - year. This game is pretty good out of the box so far.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 25, 2016, 01:18:37 pm
The A.I. has a real focus on flanking with skirmishes as well. Stupid chaos warhounds going after my mortars.
Magic does seem in need of some changing. Casting the metal lore shard bombardment spell onto an artillery crew and not killing anyone seems a bit odd. The buff spells are more useful with flaming swords, unbreakable and increased defence and leadership.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 01:29:20 pm
----
I might switch it out and try out Chaos now. I know from experience that Chaos Chosen are donkeyballs super strong. It'd be a nice change from these worthless swordsmen.
Post by: Tack on May 25, 2016, 02:19:57 pm
Unless the end times hits soon I'm gonna be unstoppable... y'know, when I eventually decide to kill some humans.
Dwarves on the other hand have horrible population growth. Realize now that it's not money which is a problem for Dwarves, it's getting large enough fortresses.
Takes absolutely ages. (Plus didn't realize that salt mines gave a military bonus).
Is everyone's Military bonus resources basically Iron + Unique? Like vamps is wood, empire is pasture, etc.
Post by: dennislp3 on May 25, 2016, 02:23:34 pm
My main problem is the loading times. It takes ages on my external harddrive. I wish I had a SSD...
External hard drive? Holy shit balls dude...Why in gods name would you even do that? haha
Post by: Vendayn on May 25, 2016, 02:28:31 pm
Gonna be playing as the Vampires :D
Post by: Smitehappy on May 25, 2016, 03:32:09 pm
It seems like they can just generate stacks of armies regardless of how often I sack their cities or destroy their armeis, which is getting frustrating. I've had to devote 3 of my 4 standing armies just to keep them at my borders. Every time I try to un-raze Praug I get pushed back by 3-4 constant sieges and my progress gets wiped. It'd be nice if major cities kept a little more infrastructure when you resettle them.
Not that it matters now though, since Harvey Birdman showed up with Mr. Everchosen. Took them out then immediately and now I still have to deal with 2 more stacks of Chaos dudes, plus 3 Varg stacks.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 25, 2016, 04:52:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 25, 2016, 04:59:29 pm
Are forces of nurgle represented here at all? :cSigvald aside, it's pretty much full Undivided. Which is kind of refreshing since in WHFB it's Nurgle all day, every day.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 05:07:09 pm
I am le stupid. Real reason: my computer's base HDD is small and old. The only other HDD slot is taken up by another failed HDD (this one was 1TB) that's jammed stuck in there and can't be removed unless I remove the entire mobo and frame to pull it out somehow. I have two 1TB HDDs externally that I use instead.My main problem is the loading times. It takes ages on my external harddrive. I wish I had a SSD...
External hard drive? Holy shit balls dude...Why in gods name would you even do that? haha
sprinkled chariot: Pretty much the only time you'll hear about Nurgle is when the Chaos guys talk about him during the battle chatter and in the Great Unclean One achievement.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 25, 2016, 05:08:19 pm
It didn't occur to me until I was thinking about the gods, but in a Warhammer game the lack of unit customization is kind of a glaring omission. It's not really Total War's thing to customize armies, or their thing at all, but still, come on. Chaos guys look boring as hell in their steel/brass armor with no paint at all.
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 05:51:53 pm
Looks like a lot of people really like it too. I see a lot of room for improvement but with the availability of mods (this was what tipped me over into buying it) and how I've seen them polish their past games (look at Rome 2 today) I'm sure it will be even better than its already pretty good self. (one more bracket for good measure)
I started a new campaign with the better camera, more skills points, resized lords and heroes, and no aggressive agents mods.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 25, 2016, 06:40:12 pm
Another nice drawback would be to increase injury chance for subsequent missions, seeing as they're gonna get wise when you try the same shit four times in a row.
Post by: Stuebi on May 25, 2016, 07:23:43 pm
(WARNING, large picture!)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think I'll stick with hard Difficulty for now, seems to have the best balance between challenge and cheating AI.
Post by: nenjin on May 25, 2016, 07:35:02 pm
Post by: umiman on May 25, 2016, 09:05:14 pm
Oh shit, I need that no aggressive agents mod. My chaos game had five fucking people surrounding Kholek at all times, spamming missions.Yeah, I recommend it. Because the AI don't have upkeep costs or money problems to speak of they just spam them nonstop.
Another nice drawback would be to increase injury chance for subsequent missions, seeing as they're gonna get wise when you try the same shit four times in a row.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 25, 2016, 10:11:05 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 25, 2016, 10:58:20 pm
I remember something kind of like that was in Medieval 2. If you kept trying to assassinate a character, they'd gain traits like paranoid that would reduce the chances of subsequent attempts.That was actually pretty cool. You could most easily see that with popes, since they were so hard to kill in the first place. The little assassination videos were pretty funny for targeting him, too (crossbow bolt hitting his mitre instead of his head, for example).
Post by: Cthulhu on May 25, 2016, 11:10:21 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 25, 2016, 11:59:38 pm
I was fiddling around with magic spells briefly. Casting a fireball at a swordsmen unit killed 14 (it went through the first rank and exploded near the back ranks), over charging the spell took about a quarter to 1/5 of the health off an empire general lord. The Searing Doom metal lore spell doesn't seem to do enough damage whether over charged or not. Over charging Plague of Rust however seems very nice with -30 to armour, up from -15.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 12:21:32 am
Okay, it seems like it's never worth making a second horde, at least not until you're so strong you can load it up right away with lots of dudes (which will never happen because of proximity attrition, but whatever)
It doesn't matter what they have to do to kill it, they will find it and kill it befor eit's strong enough to fight back. They'll bullshit you to get it. They'll give up capital cities to get the new horde. New hordes are a waste of population points.
Post by: Man of Paper on May 26, 2016, 01:12:56 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 26, 2016, 01:25:13 am
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 26, 2016, 01:33:49 am
Think I've just about beat the game on normal. I might go for a world conquest after winning, or at least try to get all the shiny stuff for my legendary lords. After that... probably Orcz on hard.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 02:50:47 am
It hit me after I moved from a Chaos campaign to an Empire campaign that, if you can move units between hordes, drop a good portion of your experienced, probably better by a tier dudes on the new horde and then recruit with the original one. That way at least the second one has some defense to it.
THe problem is you can assume all of the enemies will have max-sized units, at all times, throughout the game. If you give your guy enough to have a slight chance, your main guy is also fucked now.
You can give him a token group of guys which is basically throwing them away, or you can give him a bunch of guys and then you both die.
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2016, 03:43:00 am
Though the big thing that keeps me back is just how much the AI cheats.
It was the major reason I stopped playing Shogun 2 Total war was because I kept getting messed over by the AI building units FAR beyond their ability to.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 26, 2016, 04:14:16 am
On combat, I'm finding things much more focused on moral breaking than killing whole units. Trolls are nasty melee but flanking with pistoleers and firing at them drops their moral really quickly. Going for the enemy general and defeating them is a big deciding factor in a battle. Even Chosen, with their high stats, still aren't unbreakable and don't have that much higher moral than my own empire troops who are sitting around 65 to 80 leadership.
I remember in the tabletop units like trolls weren't so much for charging enemy units head on as they were for flanking and support. Numbers were needed to win melee encounters and a unit of 20 swordsmen beats a unit of 3 trolls unless the 3 wound trolls killed around 12 enemies (I think this is how it works broadly. Going by 7th edition). There's other stuff but I'll have to see whether this works in the game itself.
Post by: umiman on May 26, 2016, 05:23:34 am
I really hope a mod comes out soon that makes damage spells useful though.
Also, autoresolve is a bit borked right now. You're basically way better off autoresolving fights than fighting them as the results are better for you somehow. Also if you have demigryphs, the odds get strangely skewed completely in your favour no matter what.
The empire lord's tactics line of levels has a skill that buffs all your swordsmen and spearmen by a huuuuuge amount. Combine it with the blacksmith research that also buffs them by a huge amount and suddenly your basic swordsmen are superpowered. Also combine them with the woodcutter building thing that gives them bonus exp to start and the research that also buffs their starting exp and now you have ultra strong swordsmen / spearmen starting at silver chevron for almost no money.
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2016, 05:57:58 am
Also, autoresolve is a bit borked right now. You're basically way better off autoresolving fights than fighting them as the results are better for you somehow. Also if you have demigryphs, the odds get strangely skewed completely in your favour no matter what.
It has almost always been that way. Auto-resolve has always been an insane oddity.
In Medieval 2 total war it was almost always a bad idea to autoresolve except in sieges against castles, where it becomes extremely advantageous.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 06:21:50 am
"Oh and after you lose I'll have enough movement points left to kill you again. I will sprint a thousand miles into your territory to gank your new lord, walk back and get all my guys back, then surround you with guys I recruited for free because CA can't code AI and if I didn't have five times as many guys as you it'd be pointlessly easy to kill me.
Post by: Neonivek on May 26, 2016, 06:48:18 am
I am astounded that isn't the case... AND that the whole "Well it was always that way" suddenly stopped flying as well.
O_o balanced thinking? what the?
Post by: Majestic7 on May 26, 2016, 06:58:59 am
I kind of burned out with Attila regarding their money-milking schemes, tho and I have general aversion to the IP naziness of Games Workshop. So I'll buy this one when it is -75% off.
Post by: Persus13 on May 26, 2016, 07:28:22 am
One thing I only saw in Medieval 2 that I kind of miss, it was thematic for medieval warfare but maybe not very balanced, was that cavalry killed routing enemies just by passing through them. So during the rout you could set your knights to charge straight through enemy units and wipe them out. The battle itself was just a quick contest, the massacre came after.That's because the cavalry aren't killing them, they're taking prisoners.
Post by: Smitehappy on May 26, 2016, 08:38:29 am
I really hope a mod comes out soon that makes damage spells useful though.
Don't need to mod the game for that. Just reduce the Unit Size setting (In Graphics) to low or medium and your spells will do more damage. The game doesn't increase magic damage when you increase unit size and a unit's health is based of the number of men in it. Same Damage + Increased Health = Weak Damage Spells. I'm running on Ultra at the moment, so damage spells are basically worthless and buff spells can turn 5 basic swordsman units into space marines.
You can see more about it here. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4kyylb/warhammer_damage_doesnt_scale_with_unit_size/)
Post by: umiman on May 26, 2016, 12:03:22 pm
I'd rather cut off my own dick than reduce unit sizes in Total War.I really hope a mod comes out soon that makes damage spells useful though.
Don't need to mod the game for that. Just reduce the Unit Size setting (In Graphics) to low or medium and your spells will do more damage. The game doesn't increase magic damage when you increase unit size and a unit's health is based of the number of men in it. Same Damage + Increased Health = Weak Damage Spells. I'm running on Ultra at the moment, so damage spells are basically worthless and buff spells can turn 5 basic swordsman units into space marines.
You can see more about it here. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4kyylb/warhammer_damage_doesnt_scale_with_unit_size/)
Post by: Silent_Thunder on May 26, 2016, 08:44:23 pm
See, when TW:W was announced and people got upset because it was "fantasy crap" or whatever, CA was quick to assure people that they were still working on historical IPs, and that this would be headed by a different team. What that essentially means is, it's possible CA didn't infact learn any lessons from R2 and Attilla, and the improvements we see are isntead the result of a fresh faced group of devs looking at things from another angle. And since TW:W was confirmed to be a trilogy, that experince may not filter to the historical team for quite awhile.
That said, I'm loving this, AI's doing fairly well in battles tactically compared to previous games. I've seen them properly flank, do scouting runs when I've hidden before pulling back, be annoying assholes with cavalry, and so on. I've also seen them lose their shit and just break and spazz in place, but that happened all of once in my 30 hours so far, so I'll let it slide. Light Wizards are just pain machines, and tbh I've always been wishing for a rennisance era TW, and the Empire scratches that itch well enough. Seiges are meh because the one wall thing, but from a mechanical standpoint I can see why they did it, as the post wall part of seiges were always just a horrible streetgrinder where you sat at max speed waiting for your units to eventually break the baddies. Same with town battles, I do prefer the field battles to them, but it would've been nice if the town was at least in the background just past the battle border.
Also nice to see units finally have weight and momentum again. Having lines actually crash into each other isntead of blend together like a bunch of bouncy balls is great fun.
Agents are still awful, but that's been the deal since at least Rome 1, so I've just given up on it. Least I can train them by having them battle instead now so I don't have to assassin fail grind.
Can't wait for Brettonia, which is all but confirmed to be the FreeLC faction they've promised, as there are bits and peices of campign files still in the game build, such as diplomatic response messages for a Brettonian player, plus of course the fact they have a unique roster already.
So in conclusion, both reasonably looking forward to the inevitable DLC and the rest of the Warhammer Total War Trilogy, but at the same time concerned about the future of the historical games as a whole.
Post by: Teneb on May 26, 2016, 08:48:32 pm
Can't wait for Brettonia, which is all but confirmed to be the FreeLC faction they've promised, as there are bits and peices of campign files still in the game build, such as diplomatic response messages for a Brettonian player, plus of course the fact they have a unique roster already.Not all but confirmed, outright confirmed.
I was wondering why the Kislev ruler was not the Tsarina, but then I remembered they got no female generals, or even diplomatic voice lines to slap on the fully-armoured model.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 09:04:43 pm
Post by: Tack on May 26, 2016, 09:13:10 pm
What's the chances they'll end up putting that in? Because Ogre Kingdoms. And also Elves sure maybe.
Post by: Silent_Thunder on May 26, 2016, 09:15:20 pm
As to east of the mountains, smart money would be on the New World being the second game in the triology, as it's the one containing the other Major Races that aren't already on the Old World map, ie Lizards, Amazonians, and High/Dark Elves. But as to weather they'd go east or south for the third one is anyone's guess.
Lastly fuck Marienburg. Literally everything they do was to vex me. My first empire campaign they ran off to Brettonia and refused to help with Chaos. This time they managed to let the starter empire Orcs (Skullcrushas) retake that little settlement to their west, and thus the greenskins have a full stack now. If it wasn't for their absurd port I'd just raze the city when I took it from them this time, I hate them that much.,
Post by: Teneb on May 26, 2016, 09:39:13 pm
I really want everything east of the mountains to appear already.To the east are the Darklands. There are four things there: Skaven (though they are everywhere), Greenskins, Chaos Dwarfs (hats!), and Ogres (fat mongols!).
What's the chances they'll end up putting that in? Because Ogre Kingdoms. And also Elves sure maybe.
Post by: Man of Paper on May 26, 2016, 09:49:04 pm
Post by: Vendayn on May 26, 2016, 09:52:18 pm
And chaos.
Yeah, they appear vastly too fast. It also didn't help that I actually didn't like playing Vampires as much as I thought I would. However, I have one game as Chaos (they are tons of fun, and I didn't even like any Horde nation in Attila, so they made chaos a lot more fun than in attila), Greenskins (they are my 2nd favorite) and Dwarves (by far my favorite race currently in the game, but their book of grudges is kinda annoying. Greenskins mechanic is a lot more fun to me).
Attila horde I thought appeared at a much better time. He didn't appear so fast it felt like I have to blitz everything like I'm playing one of those league of legend strategygames (blitzing is my least favorite thing to do), but he appeared not so far down the line that I was already really strong (this is speaking of playing as Western Roman Empire), so he still posed a challenge
Luckily there is this mod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?731027-Delaying-Chaos-invasion
It feels like playing Attila with it and dealing with Attila's horde, and if you follow the steam link, there is an even slower speed that he made as well. My next game will be with the even slower speed, but also with Dresden's 2x build and research time. So chaos will appear a lot further, but it will still take more time to do stuff so I won't be OP.
There is of course a lot of mods for 1 turn stuff. Guess a lot of people like to blitz. But personally, I prefer really long, drawn out games. So I think adding the even slower speed and Dresden's mods (can find his stuff on steam workshop), will make the game a lot more fun. Plus add that mod where AI can't spam agents (though I'm kinda waiting to see if a mod just doesn't make an agent limit, cause I still like them using agents and I'd want to be limited to)
But for the races themselves. Only race I probably won't play is Empire, cause...chaos, dwarves and greenskins are better :P I can pretty much play empire in a different total war game lol. But for dwarves/greenskins, I kinda find them equally fun, but Dwarves just edge out a bit since their units are so deadly (balance changes in the future might change that) and I like to play defensive and get tons of money, which Dwarves are all about.
Post by: Silent_Thunder on May 26, 2016, 10:10:10 pm
So, tried out Vampires. I tend to play really slow in strategy games (well any game actually, even RPGs I take my time. Literally took me around 800 hours to beat Skyrim's main quest rofl.) Tycoon/city builder games I build up so slow (it took me 50 or so hours in Cities Skylines to get a 10k pop city lol. I just like to sit back and relax).
And chaos.
Yeah, they appear vastly too fast. It also didn't help that I actually didn't like playing Vampires as much as I thought I would. However, I have one game as Chaos (they are tons of fun, and I didn't even like any Horde nation in Attila, so they made chaos a lot more fun than in attila), Greenskins (they are my 2nd favorite) and Dwarves (by far my favorite race currently in the game, but their book of grudges is kinda annoying. Greenskins mechanic is a lot more fun to me).
Attila horde I thought appeared at a much better time. He didn't appear so fast it felt like I have to blitz everything like I'm playing one of those league of legend strategygames (blitzing is my least favorite thing to do), but he appeared not so far down the line that I was already really strong (this is speaking of playing as Western Roman Empire), so he still posed a challenge
Luckily there is this mod
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?731027-Delaying-Chaos-invasion
It feels like playing Attila with it and dealing with Attila's horde, and if you follow the steam link, there is an even slower speed that he made as well. My next game will be with the even slower speed, but also with Dresden's 2x build and research time. So chaos will appear a lot further, but it will still take more time to do stuff so I won't be OP.
There is of course a lot of mods for 1 turn stuff. Guess a lot of people like to blitz. But personally, I prefer really long, drawn out games. So I think adding the even slower speed and Dresden's mods (can find his stuff on steam workshop), will make the game a lot more fun. Plus add that mod where AI can't spam agents (though I'm kinda waiting to see if a mod just doesn't make an agent limit, cause I still like them using agents and I'd want to be limited to)
But for the races themselves. Only race I probably won't play is Empire, cause...chaos, dwarves and greenskins are better :P I can pretty much play empire in a different total war game lol. But for dwarves/greenskins, I kinda find them equally fun, but Dwarves just edge out a bit since their units are so deadly (balance changes in the future might change that) and I like to play defensive and get tons of money, which Dwarves are all about.
Spoiler: Chaos Arrival Code Triggers (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 10:31:33 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 26, 2016, 10:58:22 pm
Orcs have boarboys which are heavy cavalry but I don't know how early they can get them. There's also chariots for Chaos and Orcs that are used as heavy charge units. Chaos chariots are a pain to deal with since they have good health and armour.
Post by: Silent_Thunder on May 26, 2016, 10:59:42 pm
There's not really early heavy cavalry for any of the factions. Empire have Pistoleers as early cavalry but they're ranged and not for melee since they have low leadership. Marauder Horsemen are better at melee but they're not heavily armoured. Bretonnia have the closest with the mounted yeoman but Bretonnia aren't playable yet.
Orcs have boarboys which are heavy cavalry but I don't know how early they can get them. There's also chariots for Chaos and Orcs that are used as heavy charge units. Chaos chariots are a pain to deal with since they have good health and armour.
Empire have Reiksguard, which very much fit the bill, and can be gotten somewhat early (turn 40ish) if you rush them.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 11:00:45 pm
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 26, 2016, 11:02:19 pm
One thing that's been bugging me is I'm big on heavy cavalry, always played France in Medieval 2, but it seems like none of the factions I've played have much in the way of early heavy cavalry. I haven't tried empire or dwarves yet but I can't imagine dwarves have any and I've never seen the humans using it. It makes chasing a lot harder too. Armies are really hard to permanently put down, and if you don't finish off that crippled army he's just gonna run a doomstack out and use what's left of that army to pull it into a reinforcement battle.
Empire get heavy cavalry with the Reiksguard and Empire Knights. Reiksguard need the Reiksfort (req town level 3) and Armoury (town level 4), Knights need the Livery (town level 3) and Blacksmith (town level 3). They're not early, more midgame, but they certainly fit the role of heavy cav.
Orc Boarboyz are probably the earliest 'heavy' cav, though I can't tell what level the town needs to be to build the Boar Sty you need for them.
Post by: umiman on May 26, 2016, 11:16:46 pm
After beating the Empire campaign this is such a refreshing change of pace. I also went with Sigvald because... you know... he's Sigvald and Sigvald is awesome.
It's so nice not having to care about any cities or defenses or anything. Just rampage around willy nilly. Also all your units are so bleeding strong.
----
Also, I just noticed all the damage spells are worthless except for the Lore of Death. The Lore of Death is insane. Each of its damage spells can basically annihilate entire squads. Why can't all the magics be like that?
Post by: Cthulhu on May 26, 2016, 11:29:23 pm
Post by: umiman on May 26, 2016, 11:56:22 pm
Maybe since I"m playign with smaller unit sizes magic seems stronger, but I've had a lot of fun slinging fireballs around with Archaon. He's basically artillery, and I haven't seen many people get up after being hit by one. You can also occasionally snipe lords when they're wounded with it, and it's even stronger when fired from the walls of a city. Metal Lore seems weak on the attack end, hounds of gehenna is just kind of silly.Metal lore does have final transmutation. While it's pretty derpy against groups of enemies, it's excellent at sniping lords. A single overcast final transmutation can kill a wizard or one of the weaker heroes / lords. Two can kill any legendary lord.
Other than that, fire is basically better if every way heh.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 27, 2016, 04:02:29 am
Also, awakening the tribes? They all feel too weak to do anything
Post by: umiman on May 27, 2016, 05:48:52 am
So as Chaos do you fight the Norscans first or do you push straight into human territory? When I do the first I find they build up too much to beat, and when I do the second I find I'm not strong enough to actually do anything and spend all my time running away.I do have some mods on. I have the one that gives more skill points and the one that disables agent aggressive actions.
Also, awakening the tribes? They all feel too weak to do anything
I kinda just derped around being derpy. No real strategy. I was roleplaying Sigvald and looking for things that would piss Sigvald off.
I haven't really had any problems with fighting things. If you want to use my strategy here's what I did:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think you should just ignore all the marauders and crap like that. They're pretty garbage. You might think you need them to flank the enemy or chase down skirmishers or whatever but c'mon. Your superhuman deathball will kill the entire main army faster than those skirmishers can even do anything. Even the basic Chaos Warrior band can take on 2x their number and they don't cost all that much. The only time I was in any danger of getting my army wiped was when I did Sigvald's sword quest which has you fighting some pretty massive amounts of Forsaken. Even then I was pretty sure even if everyone died (in the end I only lost one squad) Sigvald himself could kill everything no problem.
Right now I think I can just plunk Sigvald, the two heroes, and the sorcerer in one army by themselves and solo the arsehole bird's army that just showed up. I'd like to put Kholek in there if I could just for more shits and giggles.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 27, 2016, 06:25:09 am
Post by: Wiles on May 27, 2016, 07:14:49 am
Post by: Cthulhu on May 27, 2016, 07:44:36 am
If you get 80 fightiness from winning battles /and/ you have 17 units in your stack, a full 20-man doomstack appears in a special allied faction and then follows your main army around, or can be directed at specific points. NOt sure what happens if they take a place yet, but if I can just get it to stay in reinforcement range I'm gonna be a real zoggin' waaagh!
It's a good mechanic, represents the feast or famine nature of orcs pretty well. Get it going good and they snowball into a rolling apocalypse, lose your momentum and they splinter apart and neutralize themselves.
Edit: Oh jesus. Waaagh allies are player-controlled if they get reinforced into a battle. I wasn't ready for this. I have 4000 troops in this battle, 37 units.
Post by: Majestic7 on May 27, 2016, 07:52:39 am
Post by: Biowraith on May 27, 2016, 08:01:19 am
Edit: Oh jesus. Waaagh allies are player-controlled if they get reinforced into a battle. I wasn't ready for this.
I didn't realise this until half way through a battle. I thought the AI was just being derpy with my reinforcements sitting there while my actual army was taking significant losses :p
Post by: Mech#4 on May 27, 2016, 08:18:38 am
I have generally found allies to be quite a large help. Dwarfs were sending armies to deal with roaming chaos armies in my provinces near Altdorf as well as stomping rebel armies spawning due to low order. Amusingly enough, during the chaos invasion, Tilia and Estalia sent armies all the way to Kislev to chip in a bit. I then look south and found that the Border Princes had been nearly wiped out by 6 full greenskin armies, all clustered around the entrance to Blackfire Pass.
Post by: Sirus on May 27, 2016, 11:47:17 am
Not to say that those things aren't out east, but there's a fantasy!China out there too, called Cathay.I really want everything east of the mountains to appear already.To the east are the Darklands. There are four things there: Skaven (though they are everywhere), Greenskins, Chaos Dwarfs (hats!), and Ogres (fat mongols!).
What's the chances they'll end up putting that in? Because Ogre Kingdoms. And also Elves sure maybe.
Post by: Teneb on May 27, 2016, 11:50:08 am
Also fantasy!India and fantasy!Japan, but GW has pretty much ignored them outside some mentions in Ogre lore and what Grimgor was up to in End Times.Not to say that those things aren't out east, but there's a fantasy!China out there too, called Cathay.I really want everything east of the mountains to appear already.To the east are the Darklands. There are four things there: Skaven (though they are everywhere), Greenskins, Chaos Dwarfs (hats!), and Ogres (fat mongols!).
What's the chances they'll end up putting that in? Because Ogre Kingdoms. And also Elves sure maybe.
Post by: Hetairos on May 27, 2016, 01:06:43 pm
But the whole area never really got that much fleshing out and I doubt it will make an appearance.
Post by: umiman on May 27, 2016, 01:28:19 pm
I found it kinda strange that only Chaos get that but no one else does.
... Though I guess Chaos is the canon faction to be playing as...
Edit: HAHAHAHA SIGVALD ACTUALLY DOES FLOAT A FEW CENTIMETERS OFF THE GROUND!
Post by: Stuebi on May 27, 2016, 08:15:49 pm
On a unrelated note, Vampires seems incredibly Overpowered in a lot of regard. They get incredible Regeneration Abilities, can raise Full stack armies compelte with high tier units in a single turn AND everyone that enters their turf get's attrition. They also seem to get access to their first couple strong unit's a lot faster than other races tough. I have to spend a good 20-30 turns basically jsut throwing Boyz and the ocassional wolf rider at enemies as the Orcs, while the Vamps can literally field Vargeists and Crypt Horrors in their first 10 turns, if you do it right.
Post by: umiman on May 27, 2016, 08:25:22 pm
Also they don't have ranged units which actually kinda hurts. They rely almost entirely on cavalry, monsters and flying units to deal their DPS which makes them very weak to spears and halberds. Their melee lords also aren't as potent as some of the other melee lords.
Chaos eats the Vampires for breakfast I think. A single group of Chaos Warriors can hold against them for eons. A lot of Chaos troops also do magic and fire damage in addition to physical (basically they all have flaming swords) which really ruins almost all of VC.
That being said I think they're really strong too. I don't think they're overpowered though. If anything I think Chaos are the OP faction. Seriously, Chosen are crazy.
I didn't want to use Radious because like you said it fucks with the economy too much. I'm trying out some of the other combat mod changes. If I find any good ones, I'll post it here.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 27, 2016, 10:44:10 pm
On other things, I do like the magic items and banners you can get. I had one army with a banner of speed or similar that increases a units speed by 20% so I gave it to a unit of pistoleers and they had movement of around 110.
I do wish things like banners and spells had effects that lingered. The burning banner for one would be nice since I'm unsure whether it affects just the unit with the banner or any unit near them.
Post by: umiman on May 27, 2016, 10:51:42 pm
On other things, I do like the magic items and banners you can get. I had one army with a banner of speed or similar that increases a units speed by 20% so I gave it to a unit of pistoleers and they had movement of around 110.Units in an AOE. It says so on the banner and in battle if you look at the unit cards for the units near the banner holder you'll see they get the effect too. Combine it with a bright wizard for more fun times as the bright wizard gives everything on the map a weakness to fire.
I do wish things like banners and spells had effects that lingered. The burning banner for one would be nice since I'm unsure whether it affects just the unit with the banner or any unit near them.
Post by: Neonivek on May 28, 2016, 03:49:11 am
Which is that the vampires are basically their star player, but all their other units are kind of lousy (or at least not AS good as the equivalent)
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 28, 2016, 04:26:07 am
Post by: Tack on May 28, 2016, 04:31:12 am
Would've been pretty cool to have blood knights, but alas they aren't in it.
Edit: That being said, they do lampshade it at least, there's an event where it's noted 'regrettably, the blood knights cannot be convinced to join you', etc etc.
My thinking is that they'll either be a DLC unit, or they left them out because having more powerful heavy cavalry than Brettonia is stupid.
Post by: Criptfeind on May 28, 2016, 05:06:50 am
In the tabletop one of the weaknesses of the Vampire Counts is their low individual leadership. Say, Skeletons have leadership 3
I'm not sure if this could be counted as a weakness when they are also immune to everything that requires leadership (at least in eighth), other then crumbling after the general dies (which, given the nature of the vampire counts army, if you general dies you probably lost the game for a lot of reasons already, crumbling not really being that bad of one.)... And like, probably random weird unit abilities like the Terrorgheist scream.
Super sad about the lack of blood knights. They are pretty much my favorite unit on the table top. But hey, there are still other vampires then just the heroes and lords! The Vargheists and Varghulf! Also sorta the black coach. Totally counts right? Right?
Post by: Mech#4 on May 28, 2016, 08:20:36 am
I'm going by 7th edition here by the way, as I don't have the 8th edition rulebook. Reading it, interestingly enough, once a unit is in melee they aren't affected by fear or terror causing units. I wonder whether it works that way in the game.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 28, 2016, 08:32:30 am
Orc campaign's going well. Lost my waaagh! which hurts but I'm retrofitting my army with better troops now that it's starting to show its age and the dwarves are getting some seriously hurty shit. Which reminds me of a protip: The pre-battle strength indicator does not properly account for stuff like blasting charges, which will break low-leadership units in one or two volleys.
We're looking south for the moment. The Teef Snatchaz are waaagh!ing Karak Azul and I want to grab as much territory there as I can to keep their strength low. All the orc tribes are allied now aside from Black Venom which is too far away to matter. I'll try to confederate once we've crushed the dwarves, then figure out a way through Sylvania, then the fun begins.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 28, 2016, 09:04:03 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 28, 2016, 09:25:35 am
Well, in the game and I'm pretty sure still in the tabletop, all undead units cause fear. That meant that units charging fear causing units had to take a test or fail the charge as well as other stuff regarding losing combat and so on and so on.
They changed all that come 8th edition, because Daemons were so overpowered with a variety of things, including the fear.
It just dropped your WS to 1 if you failed the check.
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2016, 11:57:23 am
Post by: Retropunch on May 28, 2016, 12:17:41 pm
Apparently, this is the fastest-selling total war ever (http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-is-the-fastest-selling-total-war/). I hope this means even more fantasy total wars after the Warhammer trilogy is done.
Whilst I haven't played it, it seems like very good news. Anything that encourages AAA companies to take a few more risks (which this admittedly was) is great news in my opinion. More than that, I'd love to see TW tackle W40k as well - they'd have to completely change things up to move from a melee+a bit of ranged to a predominantly ranged battle system, but I think it'd be amazing.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 28, 2016, 01:58:12 pm
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2016, 02:33:20 pm
I think the real concern with 40k is that it wouldn't be massed line troops anymore, which is the same problem with modern total war. Also with the advanced ranged weapons they also have to have more terrain.Yeah, the map would be have to be hundreds of km in size at least.
It wouldn't be feasible though all of us dream of it.
------------
By the way, I noticed that the AI in this game doesn't cheat as much as it used to (other than the agents). It still cheats for free upkeep and stuff but I haven't really come across any single city states magically spawning 4 doomstacks or anything. I've been playing on Legendary and I've been pleasantly surprised at how... easy it is. It doesn't feel all that different from the other difficulties other than the fact that I can't manually save or use the minimap or pause and issue commands.
Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.
Oh, the AI also gets boosts in the combat itself but it doesn't feel particularly exaggerated. They do way more damage that's for sure but I've never really been in a situation where I went "that's totally unfair". Again, not like in the past where some peasant spearmen on legendary could kill off Roman legions. Though it has to be noted that I can't send my heroes and lords on suicidal charges into the enemy now as they get wrecked if they get surrounded.
I'd say the only major issues that come with legendary difficulty are: The massive -60 relations to other factions when you get powerful and the -8 public order shit. Oh, and the agents, except I recommend you mod / neuter them.
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2016, 02:50:47 pm
Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.So legendary chaos doomstacks are not magical hunnic hordes that not only respawn with full stacks, but also upgrade their units each respawn. Nice. Lord + 19 Doom Divers sounds hilarious, though.
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2016, 03:01:24 pm
Yeah, they're not that level of bullshit.Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.So legendary chaos doomstacks are not magical hunnic hordes that not only respawn with full stacks, but also upgrade their units each respawn. Nice. Lord + 19 Doom Divers sounds hilarious, though.
I think that arty bug is something that's been around since Fall of the Samurai. I remember ragequitting one of my legendary runs when I saw the enemy cheatspawn 4 fullstacks, and one of them was general + 19 armstrong guns.
Another reason why I think it's easier this time around is because of how hard it is for a unit to get completely wiped out or for your general to die. They generally just run away when shit gets bad and the threshold for a unit card being disbanded seems really low (like... 5 men low or even just 1 for artillery and demigryphs). So your army, even if it gets completely owned to the point of 10% of your guys remaining, tends to stick around and all you have to do is sit in a city and heal. I know right now my main strat is using my artillery as bait to pull the enemy cavalry into a pointy-stick trap. Sure the artillery always get routed but I don't mind waiting a turn for them to get healed back up.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 28, 2016, 04:38:11 pm
Tribes are officially united, only black venom and one tiny tribe that'll probably ask to be confederated. Currently overthrowing the last Dwarf-faction city. Once they're out, get the last couple stragglers, upgrade my armies with all my new money and cool units, knock over Tilea, and then the gates are open.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 28, 2016, 06:10:55 pm
So far the only faction I've actually found hard to fight is Dwarves. All the others rout easily enough once their leader is dead and they have a few Terrorgheists eating their back line while Grave Guard hew down their front ranks, but Dwarves just don't run. It's kind of exhausting to fight them compared to Chaos, Orcs or the Empire.
Post by: Tack on May 28, 2016, 07:05:24 pm
By the way, I noticed that the AI in this game doesn't cheat as much as it used to (other than the agents). It still cheats for free upkeep and stuff but I haven't really come across any single city states magically spawning 4 doomstacks or anything. I've been playing on Legendary and I've been pleasantly surprised at how... easy it is. It doesn't feel all that different from the other difficulties other than the fact that I can't manually save or use the minimap or pause and issue commands.I think Hevy Hard and Legendary difficulty still give a decent income bump to AI factions though, because I found looting way more lucrative on the harder difficulties.
Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.
Oh, the AI also gets boosts in the combat itself but it doesn't feel particularly exaggerated. They do way more damage that's for sure but I've never really been in a situation where I went "that's totally unfair". Again, not like in the past where some peasant spearmen on legendary could kill off Roman legions. Though it has to be noted that I can't send my heroes and lords on suicidal charges into the enemy now as they get wrecked if they get surrounded.
I'd say the only major issues that come with legendary difficulty are: The massive -60 relations to other factions when you get powerful and the -8 public order shit. Oh, and the agents, except I recommend you mod / neuter them.
So yeah, basically paid my way through a VHard chaos game, just hammered out the shortgame in 12 hours.
Infighting between awakened tribes is a bit of a bother, but I just backed the biggest one every time and soon enough I had a loyal (if needy) AI pet who was willing to send doomstacks into the furnace by the dozen.
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2016, 07:11:32 pm
Infighting between awakened tribes is a bit of a bother, but I just backed the biggest one every time and soon enough I had a loyal (if needy) AI pet who was willing to send doomstacks into the furnace by the dozen.Here's how I solved that problem. I would awaken one, then immediately attack it right afterwards. I'll get the option to turn them into a vassal.
Vassals are so much better than that alliance they get. They don't fight each other or you and you still get all the benefits. Also money.
Post by: Frumple on May 28, 2016, 10:00:58 pm
Would... would any of you be able to recommend one that's not either entirely or sporadically what amounts to physically painful to watch? About the most competent one I've seen yet, I just watched complain about not being able to kill an ork general-whatsit when they had had a rank 6 Thorgrim at near full health sitting there doing nothing for most of the fight. It. It hurt. Every time he panned over the battle to show bossdwarf just standing there idle as the greenskin ripped into warriors or quarrelers. They've also spent, like. One or two episodes mostly kvetching about dwarven lack of calvary, naturally accompanied by making wide, easily flanked formations in some of the most undwarven displays of organization I've ever seen in my life. And I repeat. This is the most competent campaign LPer I've yet found, out at least four or five different ones checked. At least he's only mildly stupid about empire management (Yes, a 50% increase to that replenishment rate bonus, nevermind the extra growth on top of it, is worth 1k gold :-\) and non-battle decisions (we'll not talk about the other one that spent probably two to three episodes walking their main army back and forth across their territory doing literally nothing and forgot they were saving for an ancient armory probably five times before I went to try to find something that didn't hurt as bad).
Please. Someone, tell me where I can go to make it stop ;_;
... also, out of curiosity, because I'm not sure which of these guys have been being more stupid... do archers actually suffer some kind of penalty for shooting over allies? I can't tell, and because of that I can't tell whether the ones that have their melee lines sitting up front or the ones having them behind the crossbows inevitably failing to react to enemy charges in time are the more braindead, and it's been bugging me.
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2016, 10:15:47 pm
Anyway, I don't think there is a problem with shooting over allies, but there is friendly fire. Skirmish mode (run when enemy is near) is deactivated by default but is just a button press away. Looks like, again, stupid people doing stupid things.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 28, 2016, 10:30:15 pm
Even the Chaos doom hordes that come are kinda... normal? I was expecting like 16 stacks of pure death like in the other games. Here it's like 4. Meh, totally manageable. And even then the doomstacks from Chaos and the Orks aren't filled to the brim with max tier units like in the past. It's usually a pretty balanced army though occasionally you'll see the Orks bring an army of entirely doom divers or something like that.So legendary chaos doomstacks are not magical hunnic hordes that not only respawn with full stacks, but also upgrade their units each respawn. Nice. Lord + 19 Doom Divers sounds hilarious, though.
I have had Dwarf armies wandering around made up of the lord, 4 quarrellers, 3 grudge throwers and 12 longbeards. That's not that bad I suppose but I see longbeards more as an elite and not mainline unit.
Post by: Frumple on May 28, 2016, 10:32:35 pm
Oh wow. Look, I'm bad at the game and that is still imbecilic by my standards.I mean, I sorta' understand how it goes. You're trying to hold dialogue, make it entertaining, and play at the same time. Something tends to give, there, and distraction tends to kill technical skill/tactical consideration before it kills conversational skill. It's understandable, and very common among LPers, especially ones that are doing streams and similar style material. I get what's happening, these folks probably don't have nearly as much trouble when they're not recording, so I'm not going to rag on 'em too hard.
Anyway, I don't think there is a problem with shooting over allies, but there is friendly fire. Skirmish mode (run when enemy is near) is deactivated by default but is just a button press away. Looks like, again, stupid people doing stupid things.
But even if I understand, it hurts to watch. Also makes me constantly second guess as to whether they're actually rather competent at the game and they're working around mechanics I don't understand (particularly since I can't play) or they're really as bad as it looks. The state of confusion adds another level of mild unpleasantness :-\
E: Speaking of which, is there some kind of downside to using the attack move command I've seen precisely one person use, exactly once? Because no one seems to use it, even when it would result in frankly better results (stay in line, engage as encountered, instead of break up in odd ways at odd times and ruin any cohesion you might have had) than dicking around trying to individually assign units.
E2: Or a reason to put off that initial hero-granting mission battle thing? Every time someone's bothered to actually look at the opposing force, it's been fairly puny and the rewards substantial, but... I've also only see it beat once or twice, with even folks that do look at the enemy composition just kinda' twiddling their thumbs instead of taking the easy rewards. People seem to enjoy staring down that horse's throat for dozens of turns... though at least that's not as annoying as the times that they actively comment on the fight looking easy and then screw off to garrison a town that doesn't need it or some meaningless crap like that.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 29, 2016, 12:26:25 am
Archers seem a lot stronger than I remember in other games, but that may just be a side-effects of orcs vs dorfs. Dorfs have crazy ranged units, orcs have low leadership, and all.
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 12:38:53 am
1. I don't really like a lot of Total War lets plays because they hurt my brain like you mentioned. If I do watch any, I like those that are more for humour than seriousness. The Yogscast did a bunch of videos on it, but mostly just multiplayer battles. I don't like Legend of Total War because he just cheeses every battle and acts like he's good or something. Seriously, I beat all the Total Wars on legendary and never needed to cheese to that degree, why exactly does he think he's so great for cheesing every single bleeding battle? So yeah, I never watch them.
2. Archers get an accuracy penalty if they're lobbing shots instead of shooting directly. In this game they nerfed friendly fire a lot though and you really only have to worry about artillery doing friendly fire (which they will, a lot). I don't like using guns because they can't arc over troops and they're not as fearsome as Napoleon or Fall of the Samurai. I like the outriders a lot though, mostly because they're mounted so they actually can shoot over your troops, but they can run around very fast to shoot flanks. They also carry gatling guns.
3. There's no attack move command as far as I know. You're referring to them using the advance, retreat, turn, etc. commands? (movement keys) The downside to using it is your units don't charge targets when they get in range, rather they will just walk or run into them without the charge bonus. Using formation move and those commands are great for minor tweaks to formation or just generally moving in a group when you can't be arsed to reform everything.
4. There are good reasons to put off the initial quest that gives you a hero. The hero costs a lot in upkeep and you have to waste time running there to get what amounts to a pretty silly reward. You also have to waste turns healing the damage back from the quest. For the Empire one I never bother with it until I'm done conquering Reikland and another province.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 29, 2016, 12:53:03 am
Arch was interesting because of large armies of mounted Cossacks holding off the chaos invasion. Tad30s was interesting because of his good grasp of synchronised charges to break enemy armies with very minimal casualties.
The health system in Warhammer has some effects on ranged from what I've seen. With crossbows firing on zombies it takes about 3 volleys before any of the zombies start dying. The bolts are doing damage but the unit health has to deplete a bit before it starts losing units. 6480 / 120 I think means each zombie has 54 hitpoints.
Post by: catoblepas on May 29, 2016, 01:31:37 am
The health system in Warhammer has some effects on ranged from what I've seen. With crossbows firing on zombies it takes about 3 volleys before any of the zombies start dying. The bolts are doing damage but the unit health has to deplete a bit before it starts losing units. 6480 / 120 I think means each zombie has 54 hitpoints.
Yes, I have noticed that as well. Some RTS games have the number of soldiers in a squad tied to the overall health of a unit (I think the LoTR RTS used this system) where as the overall unit health decreases, individual soldiers die off. Other games give the individual soldiers in a unit separate hp. The later is the system the older Total War games used. IMO it's a bit disconcerting considering seeing them move to a more 'arcade-y' system with a shared healthpool considering the older mechanics for health and determining casualties was much closer to Warhammer's tabletop rules.
I have been watching some let's plays and I have noticed a lot of little things like this, that while not significant individually, seem to add up to quite a substantial amount of cut features/streamlining when compared to older titles. What I have seen so far is very disappointing to me.
On the plus side at least, with the popularity of the game, perhaps GW will give more thought to bringing back some of the old Warhammer world in some form or another.
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 01:35:20 am
They don't use a shared hp pool. Each unit has their own hp.The health system in Warhammer has some effects on ranged from what I've seen. With crossbows firing on zombies it takes about 3 volleys before any of the zombies start dying. The bolts are doing damage but the unit health has to deplete a bit before it starts losing units. 6480 / 120 I think means each zombie has 54 hitpoints.
Yes, I have noticed that as well. Some RTS games have the number of soldiers in a squad tied to the overall health of a unit (I think the LoTR RTS used this system) where as the overall unit health decreases, individual soldiers die off. Other games give the individual soldiers in a unit separate hp. The later is the system the older Total War games used. IMO it's a bit disconcerting considering seeing them move to a more 'arcade-y' system with a shared healthpool considering the older mechanics for health and determining casualties was much closer to Warhammer's tabletop rules.
It's why you can get things like a unit of demigryphs at 1/2 health but have all their members up (this is what happens when you cast Fate of Bjuna on them). Also if you use the Vampire healing spell, it will heal hp of injured units first before reviving dead ones.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 29, 2016, 01:37:37 am
It's not as much diplomacy as bribing, trying to buy safety, but like they said in Battlefleet Gothic, bribing orcs doesn't work. The Tileans have given me thousands of gold in exchange for peace treaties, and I'm heading out now to show them what all their money bought me.
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 01:40:29 am
After thinking about it for a while I've decided I like the way dorps and umies do diplomacy with orcs. At first it didn't make sense, but they usually do it when you're stronger than them and they always sweeten the deals with lots of goldBy the way, if you're playing as a human or a dwarf and an ork / goblin offers your money for vassalization... don't accept.
It's not as much diplomacy as bribing, trying to buy safety, but like they said in Battlefleet Gothic, bribing orcs doesn't work. The Tileans have given me thousands of gold in exchange for peace treaties, and I'm heading out now to show them what all their money bought me.
They break it the first chance they get, the motherfuckers.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 29, 2016, 01:53:16 am
It's not really useful to cast it on units in melee with the purpose of increasing the size of the unit (like it's used in the tabletop) since the health gained is diminished by the damage being taken.
Post by: catoblepas on May 29, 2016, 02:22:14 am
They don't use a shared hp pool. Each unit has their own hp.The health system in Warhammer has some effects on ranged from what I've seen. With crossbows firing on zombies it takes about 3 volleys before any of the zombies start dying. The bolts are doing damage but the unit health has to deplete a bit before it starts losing units. 6480 / 120 I think means each zombie has 54 hitpoints.
Yes, I have noticed that as well. Some RTS games have the number of soldiers in a squad tied to the overall health of a unit (I think the LoTR RTS used this system) where as the overall unit health decreases, individual soldiers die off. Other games give the individual soldiers in a unit separate hp. The later is the system the older Total War games used. IMO it's a bit disconcerting considering seeing them move to a more 'arcade-y' system with a shared healthpool considering the older mechanics for health and determining casualties was much closer to Warhammer's tabletop rules.
It's why you can get things like a unit of demigryphs at 1/2 health but have all their members up (this is what happens when you cast Fate of Bjuna on them). Also if you use the Vampire healing spell, it will heal hp of injured units first before reviving dead ones.
That is great news and a huge relief. Although the huge HP bloat I have seen on a lot of the unit cards for heroes along with the apparent introduction of a damage stat and armor soaking damage instead of deflecting attacks is still rather disappointing.
The zombies only starting to die off after a more than one volley must be a result of the individual zombies having hp and armor soak in excess of the amount of damage an arrow from Mech#4's ranged units could do, so a single arrow could never statistically kill a zombie in one hit. Still a radical departure from the likes of Rome Total War or M2 Total War, where a single arrow always had a chance of killing a soldier in a single hit-but not what I had feared.
I do hope that they continue to keep shared healthpools out of total war going forward though. That sort of mechanic never really sat well with me.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 29, 2016, 02:35:14 am
Skeleton Warriors are better against ranged due to having shields and that giving them a chance to block missiles from the front arc.
Going by tabletop (Again, I only know 7th edition stats, the game is based off 8th), zombies have 2 strength and toughness and no armour. They also gain extra models from Invocation of Nehek due to how easy it is to raise more zombies in lore.
All the damage dealing though I feel is rather secondary to making units rout. Sustained ranged fire is a good way to get units to rout I've found, especially light skirmisher cavalry.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 29, 2016, 02:36:07 am
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 02:45:35 am
That is great news and a huge relief. Although the huge HP bloat I have seen on a lot of the unit cards for heroes along with the apparent introduction of a damage stat and armor soaking damage instead of deflecting attacks is still rather disappointing.I'm assuming you're referring to Warhammer Tabletop's wounds system? Because armour and defense has always worked that way since forever in Total War. Melee defense is the probability of blocking a melee attack while armour was how much the damage was reduced unless it was armour piercing.
Post by: Frumple on May 29, 2016, 03:37:44 am
Frumple:1. That legend one was actually the one that broke my camel's back and led to me coming in and asking XD
Was watching the dwarf campaign stuff he's got up... haven't noticed any cheese in what I've watched so far, but he kept doing things that hurt to watch anyway. Cheese doesn't even particularly bother me (I was perfectly okay watching one guy pelt down tier 2+ vampire units with a fireball ring at range while the AI sat, unresponsive), I just don't want to constantly be seeing stuff that can only really be described as glaringly bad decision making. They ain't gotta' be good, just good enough I can't tell they suck. Though... yeah. If he hurt, you may never want to go looking for other ones. Like said, he was the least bad I've seen so far.
2. Ah ha, so there actually was a mechanical reason for that! Good to know for sure; half the reason I was asking was because I couldn't really notice a difference between the two arrangements.
3. Possibly! It had red arrows pointed at the ground instead of a specific unit, whatever it was, and acted like an attack-move command. Lack of a charge would kinda' make sense! I just wish I could say with any certainty any of the people I had watched were actually aware of that.
4. Upkeep'd make sense. Not a single one I've seen actually mentioned it, but it would be a good reason to hold off (or at least immediately dump the hero, somehow). Still would think the item and the easy XP would be a good reason to hit early even if you did need to ditch the hero, but eh. That, and expensive or not, it'd seem like dumping maybe a squad or three of early chaff infantry or some shit for a unit that has a skill tree would be... smart? I very literally don't know, and also can't check, heh.
Though... speaking of heroes, how good of a thing is it to have 'm loitering around? The time or two someone used one they seemed pretty useful (even if only as a beatstick attached to an army), and there was at least one vid where the guy basically got his shit pushed in by two or three of the things wrecking havoc. Even outside their fancy action stuff, how would one match up to its upkeep worth of early infantry?
E: Ah, and @mach, thanks for the recs. Dunno if I'll check 'em out - I really am looking for ones o'this game, 'cause the vid or two I've seen of Call honestly looked like complete ass and I have less than zero interest in the non-fantasy parts of the franchise -- but thanks none the less!
Post by: catoblepas on May 29, 2016, 03:40:13 am
That is great news and a huge relief. Although the huge HP bloat I have seen on a lot of the unit cards for heroes along with the apparent introduction of a damage stat and armor soaking damage instead of deflecting attacks is still rather disappointing.I'm assuming you're referring to Warhammer Tabletop's wounds system? Because armour and defense has always worked that way since forever in Total War. Melee defense is the probability of blocking a melee attack while armour was how much the damage was reduced unless it was armour piercing.
Not at all
In Rome/Medieval 2 at least, your attack value would be compared to a combined defense value that added your defense skill, shield bonus, and armor bonus (with some additional factors like moral or armor piercing weapons having their say) And that determined how often an attack would make it through the defending units defenses. Armor did Not actually reduce the damage received, just increased the probability that the attack would be defeated by the attacked unit's defense.
Whether or not a soldier actually took damage after the attack beat the defenders defense was actually determined by a 'lethality' stat that determines what proportion of attacks with that weapon will actually chip off a health point.
Only elephants, generals, and a few select elite troops have more than one hit point per soldier in earlier games, so there's almost always the possibility of an attack killing an individual soldier in one hit, no matter how well armored.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 29, 2016, 05:18:37 am
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 05:32:48 am
Though... speaking of heroes, how good of a thing is it to have 'm loitering around? The time or two someone used one they seemed pretty useful (even if only as a beatstick attached to an army), and there was at least one vid where the guy basically got his shit pushed in by two or three of the things wrecking havoc. Even outside their fancy action stuff, how would one match up to its upkeep worth of early infantry?Depends on the hero and what you want to do and if you think it's worth the cost.
A mistake people make initially is buying everything they can afford including all the heroes. You'd just end up bankrupting yourself as the upkeep cost is staggering. I normally just throw them into an army if I want them in one and if there is a situation where I can use them outside the army, then I'll pull them out for awhile. For example, I need to assassinate some asshole Chaos hero spreading corruption or I want to raise public order temporarily or hurry the growth rate or maybe destroy some walls.
They will easily match their upkeep's worth of early infantry. Though in the early stages of the game I'd rather have 3 swordsmen than 1 underlevelled wizard. I can't siege Marienburg with a wizard that only knows one spell. If they gave me a warrior priest or something like that, I'd jump on it.
Post by: Silent_Thunder on May 29, 2016, 05:34:57 am
Frumple:
1. I don't really like a lot of Total War lets plays because they hurt my brain like you mentioned. If I do watch any, I like those that are more for humour than seriousness. The Yogscast did a bunch of videos on it, but mostly just multiplayer battles. I don't like Legend of Total War because he just cheeses every battle and acts like he's good or something. Seriously, I beat all the Total Wars on legendary and never needed to cheese to that degree, why exactly does he think he's so great for cheesing every single bleeding battle? So yeah, I never watch them.
2. Archers get an accuracy penalty if they're lobbing shots instead of shooting directly. In this game they nerfed friendly fire a lot though and you really only have to worry about artillery doing friendly fire (which they will, a lot). I don't like using guns because they can't arc over troops and they're not as fearsome as Napoleon or Fall of the Samurai. I like the outriders a lot though, mostly because they're mounted so they actually can shoot over your troops, but they can run around very fast to shoot flanks. They also carry gatling guns.
3. There's no attack move command as far as I know. You're referring to them using the advance, retreat, turn, etc. commands? (movement keys) The downside to using it is your units don't charge targets when they get in range, rather they will just walk or run into them without the charge bonus. Using formation move and those commands are great for minor tweaks to formation or just generally moving in a group when you can't be arsed to reform everything.
4. There are good reasons to put off the initial quest that gives you a hero. The hero costs a lot in upkeep and you have to waste time running there to get what amounts to a pretty silly reward. You also have to waste turns healing the damage back from the quest. For the Empire one I never bother with it until I'm done conquering Reikland and another province.
To clarify, the nerf from FF came in two things primarily. One, getting rid of the frankly amazing awful system Attilla used where for FF purposes your units actually had an expanded hitbox. And 2, units will now refuse to fire if they don't have a decent shot, which when Autofire is on often results in them choosing better targets.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 29, 2016, 05:47:17 am
I was wondering if they'd do something with this because in the tabletop you can't shoot into melee at all. The only unit I know of that can are Skaven poisonwind globadiers who can even throw if they're engaged in melee themselves. There was also things like most ranged units, even mounted skirmishers, could only move or shoot but that might've changed in 8th.
On heroes, I've been using them as extended leadership bubbles staggered down my infantry line. Mostly only 1 or 2 heroes per army. Warrior Priests have a nice area of effect buff on top of looking glorious charging headfirst into battle.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 29, 2016, 06:07:53 am
Spider cavalry too, spider cavalry is one of my favorites, and if I lose my boar boyz I'd probably replace them with more spiders. Fast as hell, hide in forest, at worst they're tarpits that break up formations while the green tide is rolling up, at best they flank around and kill the squishy guys at the back.
Haven't used any magic so far. A little disappointed by the Araknaroks. They're slow as shit, basically invincible, and scary, but they don't seem to put on a whole lot of hurt, and they tire out really fast and get even slower.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on May 29, 2016, 07:57:10 am
Post by: Neonivek on May 29, 2016, 08:42:08 am
"Elves are only allowed to fight Orcs, but can only take Elf provinces because it would just be weird for them to resettle lands that Orcs once had"
Well today is the last day to decide if I want Total War: Warhammer and actually have a social life for the next few months and play with friends... As after today the Chaos warriors will cost money and it will no longer be worth buying.
One thing that has been bugging me is that there are Vampire and Chaos influence. But the AI cheats like mad... Are they even as affected by those as you are?
Post by: Cthulhu on May 29, 2016, 08:46:01 am
Post by: Persus13 on May 29, 2016, 08:47:09 am
... been watching vids. Game looks pretty damn enticing, but unfortunately I can't afford it and I'm preeeetty sure I couldn't run it even if I could (the best processor I have access to is a 2.1 ghz dual core :V). Still probably the most attracted I've been to a total war game in ever. Anyway. Been watching campaign attempts. Wanna' see some more!I'm in the same boat as you, wanting the game but with the same concerns. I've been watching a couple of let's plays and enjoying them. Specifically this one (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLwH1xJhcXG0eNMgmTAfNi1wm-N0IQ-Nzm) who hasn't played a total war since Empire, and this one (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_4YUWpVmAqmyc8O2ZMslJZZZu683WF_O) by someone whose channel is devoted to total war. Hope one of these helps.
Would... would any of you be able to recommend one that's not either entirely or sporadically what amounts to physically painful to watch?
LOTR total war whenHave you played the Third Age mod for Medieval II?
Given how this game went, I wouldn't want them to make a LOTR's game.Except the second part would make even more sense in LOTR Total War than in this one.
"Elves are only allowed to fight Orcs, but can only take Elf provinces because it would just be weird for them to resettle lands that Orcs once had"
Post by: Frumple on May 29, 2016, 09:07:31 am
Had ran into the second, though. Actually the first LP I noticed. He... he was honestly the most painful to watch in combat, iirc. Spent all time maneuvering, basically no time fighting, massive losses that wouldn't have happened if the blighter'd just attack instead of prancing around like a git. Couldn't seem to grasp the concept of walking zombies into enemy lines, despite repeatedly stating the intent to do so, or something along those lines. Only about middle tier in terms of empire management incompetence, though, which was something. Still pretty painful, but not most painful. Unless I've got them mixed up and that's the one that wandered around like a chicken with their head cut off, doing nothing much at all, in a vampire campaign, in which case they were the worst I've yet encountered :V
Post by: Neonivek on May 29, 2016, 09:13:26 am
Post by: Persus13 on May 29, 2016, 09:43:59 am
Hadn't seen that first one, yet, so definite thanks, heh.My level of pain tolerance must be higher than yours than (although I have skipped a few of his battles). I've only seen his chaos let's play, mainly to understand how they work. Although Total war games in general seem to not make the best let's play material, since it requires a bit of concentration that is hard to get when you're trying to talk and entertain an audience.
Had ran into the second, though. Actually the first LP I noticed. He... he was honestly the most painful to watch in combat, iirc. Spent all time maneuvering, basically no time fighting, massive losses that wouldn't have happened if the blighter'd just attack instead of prancing around like a git. Couldn't seem to grasp the concept of walking zombies into enemy lines, despite repeatedly stating the intent to do so, or something along those lines. Only about middle tier in terms of empire management incompetence, though, which was something. Still pretty painful, but not most painful. Unless I've got them mixed up and that's the one that wandered around like a chicken with their head cut off, doing nothing much at all, in a vampire campaign, in which case they were the worst I've yet encountered :V
Post by: Cthulhu on May 29, 2016, 10:19:08 am
Post by: Grim Portent on May 29, 2016, 01:30:49 pm
The borders of Sylvania have spread far to the North and West. A new fortress is being built upon the ruins of Kislev to serve as a bulwark against future incursions by the Chaos hordes. The Chaos corruption that spread through the lands has to be dealt with though, for it fosters frequent rebellions against the rule of the Von Carsteins.
EDIT: Just did something I didn't think I'd ever pull off. I finished off the Warriors of Chaos. Mannfred von Carstein hunted down and slew Archaon and the last of his servants in Fort Oberstyre. There are no more hordes belonging to the faction, and they've ceased existing. The Skaeling and Varg factions still exist, so I still have warriors to hunt down, but I think I may soon be able to lay claim to all of the human lands without having to worry about my stuff getting razed by the next wandering madman to blunder by.
Post by: Jopax on May 29, 2016, 04:21:40 pm
Also on the unit sizes and hp thing, they're tied to unit numbers actually, I'm not sure if it was mentioned here before, but basically playing with higher soldier count (so a graphics option) spreads the total unit hp over a larger number of bodies, making them all more susceptible to AoE spells and the like. So lowering the graphics settings makes units more resistant to AoE damage in essence.
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 04:57:38 pm
One thing I'd read umiman about the story quests (that give you a hero I guess, I'm not sure since I haven't played) is that instead of walking there you can pay a certain amount of gold to teleport to their location on the map or something, that could be helpful with getting the early hero.It's 5000 gold.
You mostly use the teleport to get to those quest places that are like in the middle of nowhere. If not... well... it's fricking 5000g. That's a shittonne of money.
------------
The magic damage boost mods have started coming out. I got as many as I could and it is bloody glorious. I learned that it's not that Wizards don't have their kills from spells recorded, it's that their spells didn't kill anything before (other than death). I just ended some battles where my Bright Wizard had 580 kills.
So much better.
Post by: Frumple on May 29, 2016, 05:16:30 pm
Post by: Vendayn on May 29, 2016, 05:38:58 pm
One thing I'd read umiman about the story quests (that give you a hero I guess, I'm not sure since I haven't played) is that instead of walking there you can pay a certain amount of gold to teleport to their location on the map or something, that could be helpful with getting the early hero.It's 5000 gold.
You mostly use the teleport to get to those quest places that are like in the middle of nowhere. If not... well... it's fricking 5000g. That's a shittonne of money.
------------
The magic damage boost mods have started coming out. I got as many as I could and it is bloody glorious. I learned that it's not that Wizards don't have their kills from spells recorded, it's that their spells didn't kill anything before (other than death). I just ended some battles where my Bright Wizard had 580 kills.
So much better.
which magic damage mods are you using? I took a quick look and saw this
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=692444979&searchtext=magic
but, my phone internet is so slow where I am. So haven't been able to look past that (well I can, its just super slow)
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2016, 06:21:10 pm
which magic damage mods are you using? I took a quick look and saw thisVampire_spells.pack, empire_spells.pack, bright_wizard_spells.pack, lore_of_metal_spells.pack, extra winds of magic
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=692444979&searchtext=magic
but, my phone internet is so slow where I am. So haven't been able to look past that (well I can, its just super slow)
The only magic that hasn't been buffed is light magic.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on May 29, 2016, 07:04:16 pm
Post by: Vendayn on May 29, 2016, 08:28:30 pm
So what's the verdict on this game? Well executed???
Thanks Umiman for the magic mods :) Magic in vanilla is kinda weak unless you lower the unit size. I never play total war on anything but the biggest :P
As for the quoted post...
I really enjoy it so far. I haven't gotten too far into any campaign, mostly doing custom battles for practice and learning. However, I LOVE the vampires in the campaign. They can be played slow, taking the time for corruption and building up. Or they can be offensive, which works okay too. Every faction is really unique, which I like a lot. Even though only 5 factions, each one is unique in its own way.
The AI also seems really good. At least, its definitely a lot harder. A big part is because of the heroes/lords. Even on normal battle mode, I often get surprised by how bad I do against AI. Rome 2, I just pwned all the time, way too easy. Get a bunch of elephants and win every battle and siege lol. Attila was a bit harder, but mostly cause of immortal stupid unrealistic, very gamey unhistorical attila. I didn't like total war attila either if you can tell by that :P Chaos is similar to Huns if you played Attila but not so bullshit, at least they (and the other lords) make sense they are OP and immortal, lore wise.
Game map already feels pretty good sized, I was kinda worried it feel small with only 5 playable factions. And they are gonna add a lot more than what is already available. The game map that is available now, it looks AMAZING. At least to me it does. They did a good job on the campaign map.
As I see it, vast improvement over Rome 2 and massive improvement over Attila (attila total war for me was worse than rome 2). I haven't run into any noticeable bugs, things feel great, its a lot of fun and AI is a lot harder in battles. Medieval 2 total war was actually my previous favorite total war, and I actually like this just as much, but might edge out just a bit as "fantasy" opens up to a lot more possibilities than historical stuff (like magic and flying units etc).
Oh, and it performs great too. Rome 2 lagged for me, Attila played pretty good...but it performs better than both for me.
Only a couple things I have an issue with
Agents. Holy shit are those as bullshit as Attila is in Attila Total War. At least mods fix that :P But they need to balance agents
And some units seem like they need balancing. Some feel kinda useless. Like...the black chariot I think its called for the vampires. It doesn't do anything as far as i can tell and dies quick. Its supposed to get stronger as it kills things, but a waste of resources when all my other units are way better. maybe I just don't use their chariots properly, dunno, but they seem like a lackluster unit. It doesn't seem to even charge through units, like chariots did in Rome 2 when playing as egypt or do anything as far as I could see.
Plus, magic needs to be buffed. Mods are coming out for that now, but it should be buffed without mods. Haven't fully tested the ones Umiman recommended. But my mages actually kill stuff now when I tried Empire.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 29, 2016, 10:06:30 pm
Quote
And some units seem like they need balancing. Some feel kinda useless. Like...the black chariot I think its called for the vampires. It doesn't do anything as far as i can tell and dies quick. Its supposed to get stronger as it kills things, but a waste of resources when all my other units are way better. maybe I just don't use their chariots properly, dunno, but they seem like a lackluster unit. It doesn't seem to even charge through units, like chariots did in Rome 2 when playing as egypt or do anything as far as I could see.
It either gets stronger as a match goes on, or as things die, because I've seen it wreck Chaos Chosen at times.
Post by: Vendayn on May 29, 2016, 10:19:05 pm
Quote
And some units seem like they need balancing. Some feel kinda useless. Like...the black chariot I think its called for the vampires. It doesn't do anything as far as i can tell and dies quick. Its supposed to get stronger as it kills things, but a waste of resources when all my other units are way better. maybe I just don't use their chariots properly, dunno, but they seem like a lackluster unit. It doesn't seem to even charge through units, like chariots did in Rome 2 when playing as egypt or do anything as far as I could see.
It either gets stronger as a match goes on, or as things die, because I've seen it wreck Chaos Chosen at times.
ah. I might just have not really been using it properly then. Should I just let it sit back behind the battle? But, close enough for it to "harvest corpses" (which is what I imagine it does). Because sending it straight into fighting, at least early on, it gets destroyed fast. Maybe thats not even how its supposed to be used.
One thing with vampires. Wow do I wreck empire during sieges against AI (granted its normal battle since not interested in "bullet sponge" difficulty on the battle map, don't like that in FPS or RPGs either. I am playing on hard campaign though. Figured for my first real campaign, hard was good enough since I'm doing normal battles). Out in the field, I have a harder time (but probably just gotta learn). But when I siege an empire settlement, my flying units wreck them. I destroy the defenders on the walls as my land troops take some damage from towers, go right past the walls and lay some serious damage. Then I pull back my flying units before any get too hurt, and my undead troops move forward and clean up.
In custom battles on "hard" difficulty, I still do really good against Empire during sieges, just as good as normal really as vampire, just takes longer.
When I play Empire in custom battles, I do good defending against greenskins in siege mode. One my first custom siege battle against them today, though partly that was cause my mages are a lot better now with the magic mods. But the mages were way too weak before since I had unit sizes at max size. Out in the field though, its harder. But vampires wreck, not sure how to counter them playing Empire. If I have troops defending the walls, the flying units just wreck me (like I do to Empire when I'm Vampires). I keep trying to figure out how to properly win as Empire, and I've gotten pretty good against Greenskins, but Vampires are really tough.
Maybe the trick is to consolidate all my forces into a small area, so the flying units can't get me as easily and my ranged units and my mages can focus more on the flying troops than all spread out. I'll probably try that later tonight.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 29, 2016, 10:24:49 pm
Quote
ah. I might just have not really been using it properly then. Should I just let it sit back behind the battle? But, close enough for it to "harvest corpses" (which is what I imagine it does). Because sending it straight into fighting, at least early on, it gets destroyed fast. Maybe thats not even how its supposed to be used.
I wouldn't know either, but I know it does get stronger somehow as I've seen it route to goblins before early in a match, but later on somehow destroy elite troops like nothing. It's certainly one of the least explained units to say the least.
Post by: Teneb on May 29, 2016, 10:31:31 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on May 29, 2016, 11:08:38 pm
Evocation of Death: The black chariot feeds on magical energy that bolsters its resistance and strengthens its charge
That is what the "abilities" tool tip reads and if you look on the warhammer wiki it talks about how it feeds of the energy of sorcerers.
But if you look at the description in the stats window (click the golden arrow on the bottom right) it says "In amongst the chaos of the fight, Black Coaches build strength, Becoming more powerful as its enemies fall"
So its pretty much ambiguous as could ever be imaginable but it seems to either feed off spells being cast (ally spells? Enemy spells? Its own spells?) OR enemies being killed...no idea though as I have not really played with them much.
From what I can tell...at the start its primarily an aura/buffing/debuffing unit...sort of like a mage except all its abilities are self cast only. But later in the fight it becomes powerful like a strong cavalry unit.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 29, 2016, 11:57:54 pm
Black Nimbus: Increase magic 44%/missile 22%/physical 22% resistance and gains strider (unaffected by terrain penalties for 21 seconds.
Black Scythes: Charge speed 18%, charge bonus 36% and speed 24% increased for 31 seconds.
Unholy vigour: Increase melee attack by +34 and melee defence by +60 for 40 seconds.
Playing some custom battles with the coach, it doesn't seem to change when spells are cast nearby, nor do it's stats change as it gains kills, at least up to 100. The buffs and terror are very nice for breaking units from rear charges, though like all units in Warhammer I've noticed, it tires quickly and slows down because of this.
Post by: Yoink on May 30, 2016, 09:19:53 am
Edit: Well, it would be a lot more awesome if you were able to customize your army/armies.
Hopefully that is added at some point, seems silly that it isn't possible.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 30, 2016, 09:33:35 am
I've decided to launch a war to exterminate them once and for all. The hard part isn't beating them in fights, my armies are far superior, it's walking through their territory with no way to recover my losses unless I march all the way back to Troll Country. Even so I should be able to burn everything down in my latest assault. I have 2.5 armies all lead by powerful Lords shuffling forwards so they stay in reinforcement range of each other.
Post by: Burnt Pies on May 30, 2016, 09:44:07 am
I really hate the gods damned Norse. Whenever I try to turn my attention back to the Empire or Dwarves now that Archaon has been defeated forever I get a taste of what his invasion was like as a bunch of viking lunatics sweep into my realm to raze my settlements.
I've decided to launch a war to exterminate them once and for all. The hard part isn't beating them in fights, my armies are far superior, it's walking through their territory with no way to recover my losses unless I march all the way back to Troll Country. Even so I should be able to burn everything down in my latest assault. I have 2.5 armies all lead by powerful Lords shuffling forwards so they stay in reinforcement range of each other.
Do you not have access to the encamp stance? That would let me recover troops in enemy/attrition causing territory, last I checked.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 30, 2016, 10:18:49 am
I really hate the gods damned Norse. Whenever I try to turn my attention back to the Empire or Dwarves now that Archaon has been defeated forever I get a taste of what his invasion was like as a bunch of viking lunatics sweep into my realm to raze my settlements.
I've decided to launch a war to exterminate them once and for all. The hard part isn't beating them in fights, my armies are far superior, it's walking through their territory with no way to recover my losses unless I march all the way back to Troll Country. Even so I should be able to burn everything down in my latest assault. I have 2.5 armies all lead by powerful Lords shuffling forwards so they stay in reinforcement range of each other.
Do you not have access to the encamp stance? That would let me recover troops in enemy/attrition causing territory, last I checked.
I do have the Vampire version, but from what I remember of the last time I used it I still suffer attrition while using it.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 30, 2016, 11:31:24 am
My greenskin long campaign is winding down. All the tribes are united, the difficult battles are mostly past aside from maybe the chaos boyz up north, now it's just grinding north through the wastelands we've created to take the last few dwarfholds and finish off the Empire.
Of all the objectives, killing the dwarves, killing the empire, taking all the dwarfholds, the hardest one ends up being Raiding Gold, just because we've trashed the world so thoroughly it's gonna take a concerted effort to find anything worth stealing.
Post by: umiman on May 30, 2016, 11:45:56 am
If you are in the raiding stance you don't get attrition.I really hate the gods damned Norse. Whenever I try to turn my attention back to the Empire or Dwarves now that Archaon has been defeated forever I get a taste of what his invasion was like as a bunch of viking lunatics sweep into my realm to raze my settlements.
I've decided to launch a war to exterminate them once and for all. The hard part isn't beating them in fights, my armies are far superior, it's walking through their territory with no way to recover my losses unless I march all the way back to Troll Country. Even so I should be able to burn everything down in my latest assault. I have 2.5 armies all lead by powerful Lords shuffling forwards so they stay in reinforcement range of each other.
Do you not have access to the encamp stance? That would let me recover troops in enemy/attrition causing territory, last I checked.
I do have the Vampire version, but from what I remember of the last time I used it I still suffer attrition while using it.
Post by: Tack on May 30, 2016, 12:13:31 pm
Is this irony?
My greenskin long campaign is winding down. All the tribes are united, the difficult battles are mostly past aside from maybe the chaos boyz up north, now it's just grinding north through the wastelands we've created to take the last few dwarfholds and finish off the Empire.
Of all the objectives, killing the dwarves, killing the empire, taking all the dwarfholds, the hardest one ends up being Raiding Gold, just because we've trashed the world so thoroughly it's gonna take a concerted effort to find anything worth stealing.
I know dem feels, except currently on VHard with the greenies I am having a Very rough time killing chaos. Went 3 v 3 against chaos armies, failed- managed to lightning strike and kill one with grimgor, then went 3 v 2 against the remaining armies and got shredded.
I've had to build a kustom kaos killin army just so that I can deal with that weird convo of armored frontliners/unarmored monstrous creatures/unbreakable artillery. However the 13 turns it takes to hire them all tanked my fightiness and there ain't no killin to be found south of the chaos wastes.
Thankfully under tunnels travel is still cheese.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 30, 2016, 12:36:28 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on May 30, 2016, 01:32:53 pm
If you are in the raiding stance you don't get attrition.I really hate the gods damned Norse. Whenever I try to turn my attention back to the Empire or Dwarves now that Archaon has been defeated forever I get a taste of what his invasion was like as a bunch of viking lunatics sweep into my realm to raze my settlements.
I've decided to launch a war to exterminate them once and for all. The hard part isn't beating them in fights, my armies are far superior, it's walking through their territory with no way to recover my losses unless I march all the way back to Troll Country. Even so I should be able to burn everything down in my latest assault. I have 2.5 armies all lead by powerful Lords shuffling forwards so they stay in reinforcement range of each other.
Do you not have access to the encamp stance? That would let me recover troops in enemy/attrition causing territory, last I checked.
I do have the Vampire version, but from what I remember of the last time I used it I still suffer attrition while using it.
The problem with that is how slow it makes me.
I've made three major assaults into Norsca so far, first time I tried just going in without using any special stances. Got three settlements razed but kept getting leaders assassinated by enemy Heroes so I turned back to consolidate Troll Country. Second time I went in raiding stance, razed four settlements and then turned back because combat casualties were stacking up and it was taking ages to achieve anything.
Current run I've been alternating between marching stance and normal stance. It's working rather well, I cover the ground much faster than I would in raiding stance and I've razed most of Norsca now. Still a few places to burn and a lot of ground to cover, but I think I'll have the Norse wiped out in half a dozen turns or so.
EDIT: Finally finished off the Norse. Took longer than I had expected, if only because of how awkward it was to reach half their settlements.
Now I can focus on the Dwarves and Empire, the former of which declared war on me lately, presumably to pay me back for some severe damage I caused them some 200 turns ago. The Dwarves have managed to destroy the Greenskins faction, and driven all other Orcs save the Top Knotz into extinction, they occupy over 30 settlements and are one of the only races with the morale to stand up to me once their leaders are dead. This should be fun, been a while since I fought the stunties. :D
Post by: umiman on May 30, 2016, 04:15:19 pm
I have some problems with it, such as how walking speeds are so incredibly slow, but overall I like these way longer fights. It also combos great with the magic boosts.
Post by: Tack on May 30, 2016, 05:53:48 pm
Dat Waagh mechanic though. Sniped the main dwarf faction within 10 turns of gameu starto.
Edit: Speaking of- for others who've played it, anybody notice that the 'Waaagh' fightiness drop disappears over time? I ended up having permanent pocket armies who hung around until they eventually died to attrition because they're idiot.
What would IMO be much more fun would be if you kept on gathering more units in an army (and potentially multiple armies) the more fighting you did, with the fightiness drop being cumulative. Gives you more incentive to steamroll instead of setting up a raiding camp in an uninhabited tile until you're 'k to continue on forever.
Post by: Stuebi on May 30, 2016, 10:33:06 pm
By the way, for the guy who asked earlier. I've had decent success with the Proper Combat mod in making battles longer. In this case it makes battles so long that I actually had to up the battle time limit from 20 minutes to 40 minutes.
I have some problems with it, such as how walking speeds are so incredibly slow, but overall I like these way longer fights. It also combos great with the magic boosts.
I'm actually sticking with Radious. Theres a submod that turns down the overly buffed Economy for those that don't like the "more armies" Gameplay. I've actually gotten to appreciate it. it just means more Battles in general, instead of just spending 30 turns autoresolving every damn thing. And Radious just improves so many things that I dont wanna opt out of it anymore.
For those interested, Radious also put out a Unit Pack. Adds Bloods Knights for the Vamps. And lots of new options for Orcs, for example Black Orcs with Shields (And thank Gork for that!) and other Infantry units. Also a high tier Arrer Boy unit, since they don't really have a high tier infantry ranged option beyond Nightgobs.
I have a really big issue with the game tough. One that drives me up the WALLS. And that's autoresolve just murdering Monsters, Lords and Elite units in general. I can literally not autoresolve as Chaos when I get Dragon ogres, Spawns or Chaos Giants, because the game just kills them off incredibly hard in Autoresolve.
I'm sure most of you will have noticed it. Your infantry is mostly fine after a big battle, but all your Lords/Heroes end up at like 30% hp. If you then autoresolve more battles, that would be incredibly easy normally, there's a good chacne the game just kills of your heroes / Shaggoths/ Giants if they're anywhere below 30%.
There are so many shit-tier battles I have to manual because autoresolve is just plain retarded when it comes to that kind of stuff. I mean, f*ck, Archaon has a 40% Wardsave, most combat upgrades and all of his Quest items, and the game manages to almost kill him off against an army made up of Marauders and Warhounds. And I had to replace some of my monstrous units so many times, just because the game kills them off with extreme Prejudice. How did noone during testing take note of that, and do something about it? Like an exclusion Tag for autoresolve, or just spreading the damage more evenly. It's infuriating.
Post by: dennislp3 on May 30, 2016, 11:24:11 pm
The battle calculations are screwy and heavily penalize any unit that is tiny in number...no matter how powerful.
Post by: Vendayn on May 30, 2016, 11:57:58 pm
Was doing custom battles, and I realized as vampires going up against empire...somehow my vamp lord (the main leader) was getting taken out in a matter of seconds and before I knew it he was dead before I even knew what was going on. The empire mages are of course a lot more powerful, but not so much they take a modded buffed up vampire lord out in that quick of time.
Realized, it was Balthasar. So I tried him out to figure out what was going on...and he lays some serious as hell damage. Taking out units like crazy with his magic. Can do some serious damage to other lords. He still can die very easily though. But talk about a glass cannon lol.
Dunno if I like that too much, he is kinda too strong. But, on the other hand, he still dies really quick. And there isn't really a glass cannon kinda legendary lord in the game from the ones I played. Guess its balthasar now lol. And playing vampires (my current guys I've been practicing with), I can take him out pretty easily with my flying units, before he does his damage. He is pretty weak when I send in all my flying units at him. Still seems a bit easy though, but I'll see. None of the mods really actually even change him, its just the magic buffs all around. So a lot of magic is actually a lot stronger, which it was WAY too weak before (due to not scaling with unit size) and the AI can take advantage of the magic too anyway.
Haven't really chosen an actual faction to stick with. Its come down to Empire or Vampires. Empire I really enjoy on the campaign, and I like their units. Its fun being humans going up against monsters and giants that are way huger than you (got a mod that makes some monsters REALLY huge). But vampire is a ton of fun as well, and I can slowly expand and spread corruption which is a fun mechanic. Really hard choice. And I'd rather stick with one campaign game, not two...so its really which I want to do first. But haven't decided yet. Mostly just been having fun with custom battles and practicing.
Empire for me, I mostly like just because its so much fun being mostly normal humans going up against a harsh monstrous world. And their mages are pretty fun to use, even without mods. I mean, you got vampires, greenskins, chaos and all kinds of other races (that aren't included yet) and giant monstrous units...and then little humans lol.
And vampires are fun cause undead :P and its nice I can expand really slow as them and take my time, and play defensively. Which really matches my play style.
Post by: Cthulhu on May 31, 2016, 12:05:21 am
Post by: Tack on May 31, 2016, 08:23:07 am
Post by: Teneb on May 31, 2016, 11:37:10 am
Post by: TempAcc on May 31, 2016, 11:44:03 am
Post by: Tack on May 31, 2016, 01:34:21 pm
Speaking of difficult, tried to play a Legendary campaign as Dwarfs.
It didn't happen. Thrice now, it has failed to happen. All dwarfs hate me. It's almost unbearably difficult, especially as I managed to play Rome 1|2 and Shogun on legendary and nail 'em all.
I'm gonna give it one more try before I give up in shame and uninstall.
Edit: Six tries later, I pulled it off. Turns out it's just trial and error on the RNG of having a specific orkhold build something other than defenses, and also having your ally not die early.
In true scumfashion I now have that turn 40 save squared away in case things go belly-up.
Interesting note- with how volatile other nations are in this, consolidation is an awful idea, because it gives a rolling -10 diplomacy to all other factions- which is enough to get declared war on by your fellow man.
Post by: Frumple on May 31, 2016, 07:47:14 pm
Dude was playing dwarf campaign. Razed the Pillars of Grugni on turn 3. Didn't even hesitate, just saw the options and burnt it to the ground.
I immediately stopped watching, but... was that somehow a good idea?
Post by: redwallzyl on May 31, 2016, 09:48:10 pm
Still looking for a decent playthrough. Pretty sure I just saw some serious shit, but I wanted to check in and make sure this wasn't some kind of deep and faintly unfathomable strategy I just don't get because I haven't played.SurrealBeliefs has good lets plays.
Dude was playing dwarf campaign. Razed the Pillars of Grugni on turn 3. Didn't even hesitate, just saw the options and burnt it to the ground.
I immediately stopped watching, but... was that somehow a good idea?
Post by: Frumple on May 31, 2016, 10:44:25 pm
This'un's (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YfrSV1_cA0&list=PL28oZ4FVZmk5QCxV9lOQOt3D-nCrOtBIT) actually the least offensive I've found so far, at least dwarf wise, I think. They're still not particularly good, by any means, but they're not having quite so many moments that are painful to watch (to me, who can't play the game, anyway), and they're not particularly blatantly/constantly absentminded. Still's hurt in places, but... bearably.
... my standards have been steadily eroding since I started looking for LPs some days ago. I think I'm learning that Total War is... apparently a really bad franchise for LPs, competence wise.
Still, thanks for th'rec regardless. S'appreciated, even if I've already checked 'em.
Post by: Tack on June 01, 2016, 09:22:31 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2016, 10:05:35 am
Through exorbitant bribery I ruined the relationship between the Empire and the Dwarves. By befriending the Empire with large sums of money I made them start getting relationship penalties with the Dwarves for attacking me. After a little while I had treaties with the Empire and called them into a war against the Dwarves, and the Empire then called in the little Dwarf faction as well, who I have also since befriended.
I have successfully made the Dwarves into the new Warriors of Chaos faction. They are now the enemy of all, living and dead. :D
Post by: ZeroGravitas on June 01, 2016, 10:31:18 am
I have successfully made the Dwarves into the new Warriors of Chaos faction. They are now the enemy of all, living and dead. :D
Except that the Dwarves will probably pay the Empire to peace out relatively fast, given their absurd economy.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2016, 10:45:01 am
I have successfully made the Dwarves into the new Warriors of Chaos faction. They are now the enemy of all, living and dead. :D
Except that the Dwarves will probably pay the Empire to peace out relatively fast, given their absurd economy.
They haven't so far. Their hatred for one another is mutual now. The Empire hates the Dwarves for attacking me, and the Dwarves hate the Empire for working with me and defending me from them. Provided I stay friendly with the Empire and stay at war with the Dwarves I think I can keep them from ever becoming friends again.
Post by: Cthulhu on June 01, 2016, 11:39:45 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2016, 11:54:06 am
They'll buy peace when it starts looking ugly. I've burned down half the human world and Karl Franz still thinks he can buy peace with orcs.
That won't fix their relationship modifiers though. They'll just start fighting again after a while. If not I can just ask/pay the Empire to join the war again.
Post by: Tack on June 01, 2016, 04:52:13 pm
As long as GP makes sure that the dwarves are weak, the empire should never go for it - Unless the empire dissolves treaties with the Undead due to aversion and great power penalty whatchemerjigger.
That being said, razing all of those dwarfholds is going to be bloody time intensive, and the only faction left to inhabit them will be the Empire's pocket dwarves- a faction which could prove to be troublesome if you let the war drag on too long.
In me-land, I'm doing a 3v4 full-stacks battle against a chaos army.
The odds are 45%-55% so autoresolving gives me a valiant defeat.
Which means I have to play it. My computer can handle it but I sure as hell can't. I ain't that good.
And sitting the red corner doesn't exactly sit right with me.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2016, 05:18:43 pm
That being said, razing all of those dwarfholds is going to be bloody time intensive, and the only faction left to inhabit them will be the Empire's pocket dwarves- a faction which could prove to be troublesome if you let the war drag on too long.
I plan to turn them against the Empire once the main Dwarves are dealt with. They already like me more than the Empire.
Post by: Tack on June 01, 2016, 06:20:52 pm
In me-land, I'm doing a 3v4 full-stacks battle against a chaos army.
Autoresolving gives me a valiant defeat.
Played it through about four times, didn't get any better than a valiant defeat.
Decided the autoresolve valiant was better than my valiant.
Played the followup battle personally because their heroes and giants were on a sliver of health as per usual (thanks autoresolve!), so I just took them out before shattering completely under the concentrated fire of eight hellcannons.
The turn ended there, Thorgrim's army, the only one which didn't get followed up on managed to lightning strike the remaining two armies and polish them off, and suddenly short campaign victory.
Yaaay. Legendary dwarf game. Someone give me a big ribbon of condescension and cheese.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2016, 06:42:57 pm
EDIT: I am making good progress in my war to end the Dwarves. Two Vampire Lords snuck into the southern Badlands by sea and burned a dozen settlements to the ground before being defeated. Heinrich Kemmler and a lesser Necromancer Lord have lain siege to a fortress containing the King of the Dwarves, Thorgrim, preventing him from harrying my forces elsewhere. Mannfred von Carstein and a Vampire Lord have swept through the lands near the Border Princes, razing all they encounter. In all the Dwarves have lost a score of their settlements, and all will burn before I deign to grant them peace.
Post by: Stuebi on June 02, 2016, 10:12:13 am
Radious buffed economy and cheats on Very hard and above add up to crazy amounts of stack right from the get go. I had a total of 7 Dwarven stacks running around the Badlands on turn 6. I mean, holy cowbell.
Also, Autoresolve just seems worse and worse the more I play. iants are an outright liability. I've had Auto Resolves on Battles which the game TOLD me were 80% in my favor. And it jsut kills my Giant and nothing else if I auto. Arachnaroks dont outright die, but the game loves putting them at 20% hp after EVERY DAMN auto. Did NOONE test this before release? You'd think the game murdering Lords and Monsters willy nilly would be looked at.
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2016, 10:31:19 am
Post by: ZeroGravitas on June 02, 2016, 10:38:43 am
I started a new dwarf campaign on very hard, starting with the Slayer King hero. I also get a unit of Slayers, which have 0 armor. Normal Dwarf Warriors have 80 armor. Their unit sizes are actually similar; Slayers are 80/unit with 80 health each, and Dwarf Warriors are 100/unit with 55 health each.
Yet in autoresolve, Slayers are totally decimated, while Dwarf Warriors take much lower casualties. Despite the fact that their unit sizes are relatively similar, and Slayers actually have more overall HP. And this is in totally trivial fights, like undefended orc outposts.
Post by: Cthulhu on June 02, 2016, 11:15:06 am
Post by: Stuebi on June 02, 2016, 11:33:48 am
I would love if there was an exclusion tag. Or if it just spread hp damage evenly. Right now, stuff like Slayers, Giants or Arachnaroks require you to manual even the smalles fights. And it just get's on your nerves after a while.
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2016, 12:03:42 pm
EDIT: As the vampires, should I swap all my skeletons for grave guard if I got the upkeep to sustain them? Or do I keep some disposable fodder?
Post by: Cthulhu on June 02, 2016, 04:20:29 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 02, 2016, 05:04:41 pm
The Dwarves are now extinct in my VC game. A long hunt through the badlands and mountains of the southeast saw the last of them ferreted out and slain. The Dwarves I has as my allies betrayed me before the war was through. I had been neglecting to bribe them, and their aversion to me got the better of them. The Empire and I razed their two settlements to the ground.
With all but the Empire dead, I decided the time had come to strike. I have laid siege to Altdorf and captured two settlements of the Empire in my initial strike. I am the larger of the two of us, but I paid the Empire so much money in the past to turn them against the Dwarves that I suspect their economy is more or less ironclad. Nevertheless, between their soldiers being inferior to that of the Dwarves and my warriors being backed by flying monsters I dare say I should win any fight where I'm not outnumbered four armies to one.
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2016, 05:10:08 pm
Not a lot to do but watch Karl Franz go back and forth to fight the WoC while taking attrition.
Post by: Cthulhu on June 02, 2016, 05:18:36 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2016, 05:31:16 pm
I'd suggest getting the mod that disables AI hero actions. The hero system was never very good and in this one it's just obnoxious.I'm using the one that disables assassinations, but not for the player (since that breaks some quests, though I only know of Sigvald's).
Post by: Neonivek on June 02, 2016, 05:38:38 pm
I'd suggest getting the mod that disables AI hero actions. The hero system was never very good and in this one it's just obnoxious.I'm using the one that disables assassinations, but not for the player (since that breaks some quests, though I only know of Sigvald's).
I am sort of reminded of one of the Total wars where the difficulty system actually changed the starting army layout of the factions (HEY game developers... Difficulty changing layouts? WHAT A NOVEL IDEA FROM OVER TWENTY YEARS AGO!) and on the hardest mode they all got super assassins that would massacre you if you pissed them off.
Post by: Tack on June 02, 2016, 06:18:59 pm
Post by: umiman on June 03, 2016, 03:35:05 am
In a panic, I rouse up a Vampire lord and get him to raise as many troops (read: zombies) as possible before he attacks me.
A few turns later Azhag attacks my walled village and I'm going.... how exactly am I going to fend off 3600 orks with an army of zombies? And even Azhag is there.
Spoiler: Why are zey open'n de gates? (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: O Gork. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: O MORK. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: GORK AN MORK 'OW MANY DEADIES DO DEY 'AVE?! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Boss! Dere summonin' more of 'em deadies boss! At our ladders! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dey is shootin' at our boyz while we fight 'em skinny deadies!!! (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: I wanna go 'ome... (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: dennislp3 on June 03, 2016, 08:00:29 am
Post by: Tack on June 03, 2016, 08:48:37 am
Post by: Digital Hellhound on June 03, 2016, 10:45:23 am
Running an i7-4700HQ, GeForce GT 750M laptop in case somebody wants to know - not a cutting-edge comp, I know, but it meets the recommended settings, runs Rome 2 on High just fine, and the game autosets settings to High, too. Many people reporting have higher-end systems so I doubt it's just not enough performance. Keep in mind I can't escape the lag/stutter even on shitty resolutions and superlow settings (though it does decrease somewhat).
Post by: Grim Portent on June 03, 2016, 05:22:14 pm
My game finished with Mannfred's dragon tearing Karl Franz off a griffon and casting them both to the forest floor below.
Killing the Empire was a pleasant experience compared to killing the Dwarves. The stunties' morale was just painful to deal with, as was their armour.
In celebration I fought a few custom battles as the WoC. Use Kholek and some other dragon ogres to rout a force of Bretonnians and tested a dragon mounted Archaon (modded in) and 6 manticore riding Chaos Champions against a force of Greenskins, which the game generated as goblins with some giants. Turns out even on a dragon giants still kill Archaon in three hits. That seems rather off considering how they stack up in the tabletop game. I may just download that mod I saw that buffs dragons...
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2016, 06:38:35 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on June 03, 2016, 06:43:50 pm
Post by: umiman on June 03, 2016, 06:56:27 pm
In celebration I fought a few custom battles as the WoC. Use Kholek and some other dragon ogres to rout a force of Bretonnians and tested a dragon mounted Archaon (modded in) and 6 manticore riding Chaos Champions against a force of Greenskins, which the game generated as goblins with some giants. Turns out even on a dragon giants still kill Archaon in three hits. That seems rather off considering how they stack up in the tabletop game. I may just download that mod I saw that buffs dragons...It's a bit strange but I noticed that a lot of heroes (EXCEPT FRANZ) become weaker on their mounts.
For example, Manfred on foot can easily solo entire armies when he's level 30 but when I have him on his undead pegasus or zombie dragon he's super squishy (though does way more damage).
Interestingly enough, some heroes actually get bonus health when mounted (a Wight King gets 50% more health on a barded undead steed).
It's a very strange system. I suspect they did it that way to balance out the massive amounts of mobility you get when you can fly. Also when you're mounted you're counted as a large unit and thus take huge damage from spears and other pokey weapons. Not to mention with a massive character model, you take way more attacks in general.
I really like having hero units being able to fly though. The mobility really is great, though you lose out on the one man fights everyone deal. Again... except Franz on Deathclaw. The Chaos heroes on manticores have the added bonus of doing poison damage on their attacks.
-----------------
Criptfeind: You can intercept them moving underground and if you manage to do it, they can't escape from the battle. But yeah, it's really good.
-----------------
I really love how gorgeous the game is. I can really understand why the devs said it takes them so much longer to design units for this game when you see this kind of end result:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Even the cities. Sure, they're almost all backdrop but have you seen the backdrops?! They're crazy! There's so much shit going on in the background. I originally thought it'd be immersion breaking if I couldn't fight in the city centers and all that and be only stuck at the walls but that has definitely not been the case. If in game I ever went "I wonder what I'm even defending?", all I had to do was turn around and just stare agape at the ridiculous backdrops. Then it'd be "yeah, you fuckers ain't taking this shit from me".
Even the basic units are so unnecessarily pretty. Have you seen the animations for the skeletons? They all jangle about like puppets. It's so freaky.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I especially love looking at guys like the Forsaken. The poor artists must have slaved for months working on their models.
I also love how they made so many variations for all the heroes and lords. You can have three Chaos sorcerers in the same army and they'd all look different and even have different voices! One guy would be wearing a hood and a mask and sounds snively. Another guy has horns coming out his head and sounds regal. You can instantly tell who is who. Their names even change depending on how you level them up or if anything happens just like how it worked in Medieval 2. I remember having a hero with the title of the Dawi-slayer because he hated dwarfs after killing hundreds of them. Or the Wight Kings with the titles of the Eternal or the Unending because you specced them out completely in defense.
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2016, 07:18:28 pm
Post by: Frumple on June 03, 2016, 08:10:47 pm
[snip]Naaaah. Not unless it's changed compared to the videos I've been watching, anyway. Whoever loses an underground fight is straight wiped -- if you catch them underground and win the fight, they don't disappear into the underground to reinforce, they disappear entirely and have to go get a new stack. Underground travel is indeed very powerful, but it's also probably the riskiest stance in the game, so far as I've noticed. Whoever's using it is gambling on being damn sure they can take anything that catches them.
... not sure how non-dwarf/orc factions go about catching armies moving underground, though. Not even entirely sure if they can, actually. Maybe on specific heroes/leaders if it's not just a low(er?) chance in general?
Post by: Burnt Pies on June 03, 2016, 08:14:14 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2016, 08:17:52 pm
I've caught Orcs as Empire, and been caught by Chaos as Orcs. The non-underway users can still intercept, and seemingly with a fairly high likelihood.Does the intercepting army need to be on the way? Or just close enough (reinforcement range?)?
Post by: Burnt Pies on June 03, 2016, 08:44:51 pm
Not enough data to draw a conclusion.
Post by: umiman on June 03, 2016, 08:50:05 pm
I believe it's the same AOE as you get in the ambush stance. That red circle. It's not guaranteed but it's a pretty high percentage.I've caught Orcs as Empire, and been caught by Chaos as Orcs. The non-underway users can still intercept, and seemingly with a fairly high likelihood.Does the intercepting army need to be on the way? Or just close enough (reinforcement range?)?
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2016, 08:53:11 pm
Oh. Reverse ambushing then. Sounds like a reasonable way to do it.I believe it's the same AOE as you get in the ambush stance. That red circle. It's not guaranteed but it's a pretty high percentage.I've caught Orcs as Empire, and been caught by Chaos as Orcs. The non-underway users can still intercept, and seemingly with a fairly high likelihood.Does the intercepting army need to be on the way? Or just close enough (reinforcement range?)?
Post by: Mech#4 on June 03, 2016, 10:58:13 pm
Some fun moments I've had in battles was a close fight between my dwarfs and a Vampire Counts army. My lord brought his axe to bear on the enemy vampire count and started winning when the vampire tried to escape. My lord then gave the order for the master engineer to take a headshot that levelled the vampire.
Another was a battle with my dwarfs and a small Bretonnian army vs 3 ~500 units (badly depleted) stacks of Chaos. Still threatening since they were lead by Kholek, Sigvald and Archaon. I set up on a hill with my cannons and the battle begins with Kholek eating a cannon ball, Sigvald getting beaten in a duel with my lord and Archaon breaking and fleeing then getting gunned down by thunderers.
Post by: Tack on June 03, 2016, 11:01:51 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 04, 2016, 10:41:05 am
Post by: Burnt Pies on June 04, 2016, 11:06:22 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 04, 2016, 11:16:30 am
You can't confederate with people who aren't of exactly the same faction type as you. Empire can only confederate with the provinces, including Marienburg, but that doesn't include Border Princes, Estalia, Tilea or Kislev. Similarly, the Greenskins can confederate most of the orc tribes, but not the Top Knotz, as they're a savage orc tribe.
Makes sense I guess. Kind of a shame though, would rather like to see some mixed race armies.
Maybe someone could mod in a building that lets you train units based on other factions as 'mercenaries'.
Post by: Tack on June 04, 2016, 06:41:10 pm
Reckon we might see an Ogre Kingdoms horde appearing?
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2016, 06:45:35 pm
Wondering what races are going to make it into the finished game. Brettonia is happening, Wood elves and Kislev is almost a sure thing...Only if the map is expanded into the Dark Lands. Only ogres who leave that and the Mountains of Mourn are mercenaries (the maneaters). That said, I think they did claim all factions with armybooks were guaranteed to appear, so...
Reckon we might see an Ogre Kingdoms horde appearing?
EDIT: I just noticed vampire corruption spreads from the cities and towards the province borders. That's cool.
MORE EDIT: Well, things are going down. The three chaos lords are already out of the wastes, the Empire is dead, Kislev is a single province and the Birdman has the field. Talabheim and Altdorf are my frontlines now, with everything north (save Bechafen, Kislev's one city (currently under siege)) being a ruin. Damn norscans are everywhere, and even though the dorfs, bretonnians, and southern humans hate me, everyone is focused on the spiky boyz. (Grimgor is fighting with the main dwarf faction in the south. Other beard-things are focusing on Archaon the Everslammer).
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on June 04, 2016, 09:12:36 pm
Old world has so many factions packed in that one could make a judgement call on like half of them, Beastmen, Daemons of Chaos, Wood Elves, Skaven
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2016, 09:28:04 pm
Archaon recovered WAY faster than I expected. And he still had 4 of the damn giants. At least this time I made a point to pursue and kill 3 of them after the battle was won.
EDIT: ...and I defeated the WoC for good. Now all I need is four provinces for the short victory, which I think I'll settle for. I suppose I could just rush the area razed by Chaos and settle ruins until I have the 4 I need.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2016, 10:14:38 pm
Spoiler: Hidden if people don't want to know (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2016, 10:42:48 pm
Post by: umiman on June 05, 2016, 04:28:14 am
For some reason the Chaos hordes never stop coming and I have yet to see any hint of Archaon even after 200 turns. So I have Heinrich Kemmler and Manfred stuck up there pushing them back.
Now, in the South in the past I didn't really have to care much as I razed a huge DMZ between me and everything around me a long time ago (basically all the Dwarves and Orks). However, the Greenskins have completely wiped out every single last remaining Dwarf, Border Prince, Tilia, etc. Basically every single person in the South is now green. Now they're actually wading through all my vampiric corruption and razed settlements to get to me and they're constantly bringing thousands upon thousands of orks down upon me.
Not the shitty greenskins too. Black Orks, Big Uns on boars, Araknaroks, Chariots. M'fing level 30 Grimgor Ironhide, level 30 Azhag the Slaughterer, and all their level 30 generals.
I only have one single guy down there as I can't afford any more armies. He's just some level 6 general I hastily recruited awhile back (his first mission was that silly zombie defense castle siege thing). All he has are zombies and shitty units with a handful of Hexwraiths. I keep fighting back incredible odds but the Ork tide never stops.
Shit is crazy, I can't even leave the top as the Chaos assholes keep running all over the place and I need two armies to chase them around.
I'm hoping if I can hold them off at Blackfire Pass long enough, they won't have enough fighti-ness due to having literally no one else to fight, and I won't have to deal with them in such insane numbers any more. I don't even get any diplomatic benefits from killing the Greenskins as every single other faction who knows them is dead.
Post by: ThtblovesDF on June 05, 2016, 06:35:13 am
I wonder how Skaven will work, mechanically on the overworld Map, as they are the parasites in a empires back. And will there be 3 clans killing each other?
Post by: Mech#4 on June 05, 2016, 07:52:13 am
Skavenblight is in the swamps near Tilia, that much is pretty obvious as there is a few ruins there. Hell Pit is located in Kislev and there's an area near the northern mountains with a valley going between two small forests with a rock skull that is in the general right area. Crookback Mountain and Mount Silverspear are on the eastern side of the worlds edge mountains. Karak Bhufdar and Karak Izor are around where Foul Peak and Fester Spike would be.
Karak Varn is also kind of on the map, I think. While in my rulebook it is located on the north coast of the lake near Zhufbar there is a few dwarfen port buildings on the backside of Karaz-A-Karak.
Apparently people have been able to find this map within the game files that shows the general layout of the world map as split into provinces. I'm sure it's not finished and to be added to at later dates but it's still interesting. (https://15254b2dcaab7f5478ab-24461f391e20b7336331d5789078af53.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/totalwar.vanillaforums.com/editor/f4/4e62jpvw5pjk.jpg)
Post by: Tack on June 05, 2016, 07:59:01 am
Where you think skaven'd go?
Post by: Mech#4 on June 05, 2016, 08:32:14 am
Most people I've seen mention that they'd like a separate underground map which would be used by Dwarfs, Skaven and Greenskins. Like what's in Heroes of Might and Magic III.
Post by: Frumple on June 05, 2016, 08:42:39 am
Though... yeah, what mech was mentioning sounds like it'd probably be entirely too appropriate. Them not directly holding too many provinces would be fairly on point, really, you'd think. Or basically occupying provinces in tandem; forget taking over the surface, you'll build your own buildings, with blackjack and rat hookers. No option to occupy the surface, just loot, raze, and infest the underground.
E: Maybe even have certain construction options linked to having an undercity in the same province as a particular race. So if you wanted those giant slave rat people things, ferex, you'd have to build their building in an ostensibly human controlled province... stuff like that. Probably one building path for each of the distinct races (human, undead, orc, dwarf... maybe something special for high chaos corruption provinces, too) or somethin'. Really give a strong reason to infiltrate everything, and possibly manipulate things so one of the regions you've got a foothold in has access to all options (i.e. the above ground is a morass of multifront war :V).
Post by: Vendayn on June 06, 2016, 09:58:46 pm
Probably best 60 dollars I spent since Skyrim lol. I don't even barely play my other games, just Total Warhammer. Don't want to play any other game barely lol. I played vanilla to begin with, but I've modded it a lot now and have a pretty developed Bretonnia mod that I'm trying out. It has a custom working tech tree, custom units (though that mostly comes with another mod), a custom leader and a bunch of other features. Its a lot of fun. All the factions are really fun though, was really hard to decide on one, but I like Bretonnia the most. I like the starting area more than anyone else (mostly cause its a really hard starting area, but compared to anywhere else, super easy to defend once its secured). Vanilla, Bretonnia are pretty bare though (as expected obviously), but it is almost certainly gonna be a free DLC later anyway.
But yeah, I wasn't entirely sure to begin with, if I wanted to spend 60 dollars or not (it did come with that chaos DLC for free)...but man...best purchase in a game I've done in ages lol.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 06, 2016, 10:34:33 pm
Here's a battle people can try for themselves, based off the "Battle for Skull Pass" starter set featuring Dwarfs vs Night Goblins. I was playing it on the Stonemine Tower map.
Dwarfs: Night Goblins:
1 Lord 1 Great Goblin Shaman (Set has Night Goblin lord but no Goblin lord in game)
1 Thane (Set has Slayer but no hero slayer) 1 Goblin Big Boss
Core: Core:
1 Dwarf Warriors 2x Night Goblins (Set has spears, game only has swords)
1 Thunderers 1 Night Goblin Archers
1 Miners 1 Forest Goblin Spider Riders with Spears
Special: Special:
1 Cannon 1 Troll (On small, trolls come in units of 3)
I've won the battle as dwarfs but it was down to my lord and hero. Sneaky Night Goblins are difficult to deal with due to hide making them invisible right up until they're within charge range. It is skewed in the goblins favour with the 3 trolls and no way to limit mages access to magic (Tabletop mages have a level that determines how many spells they get).
Few other armies:
500 point Chaos Warriors: 500 points Vampire Counts: 500 points Empire:
1 Chaos Sorcerer (Lore of Metal) 1 Master Necromancer 1 General of the Empire
1 Chaos Warriors 1 Vampire 1 Haberdiers
1 Chaos Chariot 1 Zombies 1 Hellblaster Volley Gun
1 Chaos Knights 1 Skeletons 1 Demigryph Knights
1 Graveguard
1 Black Knights with Barding and Lances.
Post by: Tack on June 06, 2016, 10:37:41 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 06, 2016, 11:02:41 pm
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2016, 12:02:36 am
Yeah, from what I've read it's listed as a Dragon Slayer. Funnily enough, I don't think the trolls are that big of a threat. They deal damage yes, but their low morale saw them fleeing soon after getting into combat. In the set it's only 1 troll but 3 is as small as the game gets.The regular ones are pretty derpy yeah. They run almost instantly.
The armored chaos ones though....
----------
Played a bunch of MP games with Timferius. Good times. We were just constantly trolling around.
Post by: Tack on June 07, 2016, 12:09:23 am
Especially if their damage is spread around evenly, too. I find that I either use siege weapons and hope to snipe a few or just acknowledge that they'll be a thorn in my side for the rest of the game.
Post by: Teneb on June 07, 2016, 05:51:53 am
I actually find that the most annoying. Whenever the trolls get hurt, they bail out, but they regenerate so quickly you have to deal with them anew when they reform.Magic, monsters and heroes/lords are also pretty good vs trolls.
Especially if their damage is spread around evenly, too. I find that I either use siege weapons and hope to snipe a few or just acknowledge that they'll be a thorn in my side for the rest of the game.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 07, 2016, 09:20:23 am
Post by: Stuebi on June 07, 2016, 12:45:28 pm
You can win most low-tier Vamp fights earlygame with just mannfred and the Vargulf on their own. Trolls at least get stuck if you sourrund them. Stuff like Vargulf and Terrorgeists will just casually plow through your line and go regen somewhere.
Unit hitboxes in general are incredibly f*cked up. Flying units will literally ignore your orders to disengage, if even one of them is still stuck somwhere. I've had a Unit of 12 Vargeists almost wipe after one of them charged almsot twice the distance than the others into a meele, and then couldnt get out. The other 11 just kept circling above the fight, getting shot at by ranged units, until the one guy finally died.
Units on the retreat on the other hand. Anyone ever tried to kill a retreating Lord in a Horse? You can literally cover a good 200 square metres around the guy in bodies, and he will casually walk out of it. Most units just run alongside retreating stuff if you tell them to kill it, with single units being the absolute worst offenders. I've had fights with 2 Warbosses and a Goblin Big Boss, where I told all 3 of them to kill one retreating Warpriest. The guy was on FOOT, and all 3 of them had mounts. They just kept bumping him to the ground without doing damage, and then walked him to the edge of the map with a good 1k of hp to spare.
Post by: Neonivek on June 07, 2016, 01:05:51 pm
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2016, 01:12:09 pm
Regeneration Units in general are pretty crazy.The flying unit thing is intentional.
You can win most low-tier Vamp fights earlygame with just mannfred and the Vargulf on their own. Trolls at least get stuck if you sourrund them. Stuff like Vargulf and Terrorgeists will just casually plow through your line and go regen somewhere.
Unit hitboxes in general are incredibly f*cked up. Flying units will literally ignore your orders to disengage, if even one of them is still stuck somwhere. I've had a Unit of 12 Vargeists almost wipe after one of them charged almsot twice the distance than the others into a meele, and then couldnt get out. The other 11 just kept circling above the fight, getting shot at by ranged units, until the one guy finally died.
In one of their making of videos (https://youtu.be/IbHKLFMrz8c?t=2m27s) they talked about how they made it so flying units get easily bogged down in a fight so they can't just skirmish you endlessly and have to choose to commit to fights for at least a little while.
It's not that they're ignoring your orders, it's just that they can't take off until they're clear of units. So if you keep ordering them to run they'll ignore their enemies and continue to take damage while they find a way out of their predicament.
There seem to be several tiers of massive units. You have regular guys who get bogged down easily. These are guys the size of the average human. Then you have slightly larger monsters like cavalry and Vargheists and Trolls who also seem to get stuck in fights and can't escape without some issues. Then you have massive monsters like Giants and Araknaroks and Vargulfs who can faff around the battlefield like it ain't no thang.
---------------
I think it's also why the Terrorgheist is so much more survivable. It can claw its way out of being surrounded and then take off. Vargheists do way more damage but if they get surrounded they're basically dead.
Post by: dennislp3 on June 07, 2016, 01:43:12 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 07, 2016, 01:47:51 pm
For funsies in a custom battle I pitted 10 Shaggoths and Kholek against about 3500 empire swordsmen with 3 foot generals.
Lost 2 Shaggoths by the time the fight ended, and the others were all down to about 1/6 of their health, but each killed about 270 swordsmen before the enemy finally broke and fled. None of the surviving empire units were at more than 1/3 health.
Post by: Tack on June 07, 2016, 02:10:57 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 07, 2016, 02:24:27 pm
Shaggoths aren't anti-infantry, so I usually try to fuel giants or steam tanks with them.
But it's so fun to watch dino-centaurs send people flying through the air.
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2016, 03:12:21 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4wYG9cdfQ
The rules of the tournament were max 2 heroes and max 6 of any unit I think.
He plays very well I think and he has some very good insights.
Here's the Reddit thread where he talks some more about armies and such: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4mz6st/hi_i_recently_won_the_esl_and_flash_tournaments/
Post by: PrimusRibbus on June 07, 2016, 03:47:24 pm
Here's a video of a pro doing an explanation of his tactics that won him the recent ESL tournament:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4wYG9cdfQ
The rules of the tournament were max 2 heroes and max 6 of any unit I think.
He plays very well I think and he has some very good insights.
Here's the Reddit thread where he talks some more about armies and such: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4mz6st/hi_i_recently_won_the_esl_and_flash_tournaments/
One of the things I've always found enjoyable about high-level TW play is watching how strategic and tactical errors play out. Both sides in that video made some major mistakes, but Jevanko had the situational awareness to more effectively capitalize on them.
The left flank was really what made the game: Jevanko royally screwed up his force composition, formation, and facing there... and yet instead of taking the opportunity to pin him down on the flank and win the center, his opponent tied up a massive amount of his own forces trying to wipe out the left flank. It was pure, unadulterated tunnel-vision. Really fun to watch it play out.
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2016, 04:08:38 pm
For example, I didn't know that an overcasted magic missile does 1500 damage compared to the measly pathetic damage it does normally.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 07, 2016, 11:27:36 pm
I think the overcharging might affect more spells in similar ways but the spell book encyclopaedia doesn't really mention more than the 50% chance to miscast. Maybe most spells are meant to be overcast and not doing so gets the weaker, safe version?
On miscasting, I've had enemy mages kill themselves due to miscasting, was quite funny when Mannfred did so causing his whole army to disintegrate.
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2016, 11:41:33 pm
I don't think that can happen. As far as I've seen miscasting takes away 50% of your current HP. I've miscasted on a 25% hp mage before and it brought me down to half of that. So you can miscast if you're almost dead but you'd die to something else.
On miscasting, I've had enemy mages kill themselves due to miscasting, was quite funny when Mannfred did so causing his whole army to disintegrate.
By the way, I'm sure you've heard the awesome "NORSCA" that the warriors of Chaos will shout out together. It's so damn good.
Post by: Tack on June 07, 2016, 11:50:21 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 08, 2016, 12:10:41 am
I don't think that can happen. As far as I've seen miscasting takes away 50% of your current HP. I've miscasted on a 25% hp mage before and it brought me down to half of that. So you can miscast if you're almost dead but you'd die to something else.
On miscasting, I've had enemy mages kill themselves due to miscasting, was quite funny when Mannfred did so causing his whole army to disintegrate.
By the way, I'm sure you've heard the awesome "NORSCA" that the warriors of Chaos will shout out together. It's so damn good.
Perhaps they were dying to an attack at 1 hp. Still, it's a welcome victory in some hard pressed battles.
I have heard the army shouts. Happens when you select a large number of troops at once, sounds like they're shouting "Zor" or something. You can hear the troops shouting things like "Blood for the Blood God" as well though if I could I would have it louder, maybe they could take a slice of the ham from Dawn of War.
Post by: Tack on June 08, 2016, 02:44:26 am
It doesn't have the timbre I'd prefer for like a message tone but still, novel.
Post by: umiman on June 08, 2016, 02:49:31 am
"NORSCA!!!!"
or
"Blood for the BLOOD GOD skulls for the SKULL THRONE!!!!"
or
"NURGLE'S PESTILANT GLORY!"
or any of the many lines the hordes shout while they smash their enemies into oblivion? They're the most vocal army in the game.
Post by: Tack on June 08, 2016, 03:07:22 am
"KILL THE WAZZAKS"
"COVER YOUR AZES IN GROBI BLOOD"
"KHAZUKAN KHAZAKIT HA"
Post by: Mech#4 on June 08, 2016, 03:37:14 am
You guys have never heard the hordes shout...
"NORSCA!!!!"
or
"Blood for the BLOOD GOD skulls for the SKULL THRONE!!!!"
or
"NURGLE'S PESTILANT GLORY!"
or any of the many lines the hordes shout while they smash their enemies into oblivion? They're the most vocal army in the game.
Oh I have, and it's very neat. I would like it to be louder and clearer though. Side affect from having multiple people saying the same thing at the same time I would guess.
Post by: Tack on June 08, 2016, 03:58:28 am
Post by: umiman on June 08, 2016, 03:59:32 am
A thing I forgot to test/ask, does the HP of a unit drop with smaller unit sizes? Does that affect monsters?Single unit things have their HP changed with unit sizes. With the others, only the number of units change.
Post by: Stuebi on June 08, 2016, 02:59:05 pm
Regeneration Units in general are pretty crazy.The flying unit thing is intentional.
You can win most low-tier Vamp fights earlygame with just mannfred and the Vargulf on their own. Trolls at least get stuck if you sourrund them. Stuff like Vargulf and Terrorgeists will just casually plow through your line and go regen somewhere.
Unit hitboxes in general are incredibly f*cked up. Flying units will literally ignore your orders to disengage, if even one of them is still stuck somwhere. I've had a Unit of 12 Vargeists almost wipe after one of them charged almsot twice the distance than the others into a meele, and then couldnt get out. The other 11 just kept circling above the fight, getting shot at by ranged units, until the one guy finally died.
In one of their making of videos (https://youtu.be/IbHKLFMrz8c?t=2m27s) they talked about how they made it so flying units get easily bogged down in a fight so they can't just skirmish you endlessly and have to choose to commit to fights for at least a little while.
It's not that they're ignoring your orders, it's just that they can't take off until they're clear of units. So if you keep ordering them to run they'll ignore their enemies and continue to take damage while they find a way out of their predicament.
There seem to be several tiers of massive units. You have regular guys who get bogged down easily. These are guys the size of the average human. Then you have slightly larger monsters like cavalry and Vargheists and Trolls who also seem to get stuck in fights and can't escape without some issues. Then you have massive monsters like Giants and Araknaroks and Vargulfs who can faff around the battlefield like it ain't no thang.
---------------
I think it's also why the Terrorgheist is so much more survivable. It can claw its way out of being surrounded and then take off. Vargheists do way more damage but if they get surrounded they're basically dead.
That's not my issue. Again, I'm talking about the case where most of the squad is allready in the air, but 1 or 2 are still stuck in melee. A lot of Flying units charge a very random distance, so there are a lot of cases where you paid special attention to leave them a lot of room to escape, but one or two dudes charge all the way trough the line and end up cut off from easy escape.
That, by itself, would be fine. But the ENTIRE squad will REFUSE to move away from combat because of that one guy. What I want is that the rest just leaves the stuck ins to die and actually take orders. Flying units should not have an easy time disengaging, I totally agree. But they should not literally kill themselves because of one or two guys from a 12 (Vargeists) or 60 (Bats) man squad.
It's also just weird because it's those two specifically having the issues. Other fliers behave just fine. Never had an issue pulling Gyrocopters out of such situations.
In all fairness you wouldn't want them to be capable of being bogged down... THAT and they are giant super people, what is going to stop them?
The thing is, it's only on the retreat they seem to get magic ghost powers. In a regular melee they totally get stuck. Try pulling Archaon out of 1-2 squads swarming him. Can be incredibly hard.
I'm not gonna judge if that's good or bad. But it should be consistent.
Post by: umiman on June 08, 2016, 05:52:47 pm
Post by: Frumple on June 08, 2016, 05:58:48 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 08, 2016, 07:22:12 pm
Post by: Tack on June 08, 2016, 09:24:49 pm
However, not sure if it's what you're after but the withdraw button can help with that "we must continue to fight forever" issue.
Of course then you have to keep an eye on them so they don't leave the map.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 08, 2016, 10:21:41 pm
I did read a comment from a developer that cavalry had been made with cycle charging in mind, so disengaging them you'd want to be easy-ish.
Post by: Neonivek on June 09, 2016, 08:52:12 am
It's what he does
Felt this needed to be here. Mostly because if arguments here are going to migrate to other threads, they need to be dealt with here.
Post by: Tack on June 09, 2016, 08:58:04 am
Whole quote for context.Neo is justIt's what he does. In the warhammer thread he suggested the devs limited what territories a faction can occupy for some nefarious purpose and then lied about it being for lore reasons.
If you're gonna sig it you should add in FD's bit too. The context makes for a good disclaimer.
Also, this game seems to have boomed, so it seems you were wrong to uninstall it, twice.
Post by: Neonivek on June 09, 2016, 08:59:55 am
Watchdogs is selling well and it was a bad game.
If you're gonna sig it you should add in FD's bit too. The context makes for a good disclaimer.
Because it doesn't really matter the situation involved.
Post by: Tack on June 09, 2016, 09:08:21 am
= youNeo is justIt's what he does.
Post by: Neonivek on June 09, 2016, 09:13:13 am
I played watchdogs through and found it moderately enjoyable probably.
I know I should be concentrating on the putdowns but this is kind of funny. "I liked it! maybe..."
Though in all fairness Watchdogs is so popular right now because of a 70% discount and Watchdogs 2 in spite being up for pre-orders isn't even making the top 10 on steam.
Post by: Tack on June 09, 2016, 10:17:21 am
I assumed you were tickled at having the forum recognise you as the king of skeptics.
However yeah I probably did enjoy watchdogs. It's similar to many open worldish city games.
I play it for two weeks, I finish, people go 'was it fun?' And I say 'I think I thought so a week ago.'
Post by: Cthulhu on June 09, 2016, 10:26:19 am
Post by: Neonivek on June 09, 2016, 12:16:47 pm
Woah woah, I'm happily arguing, but I'm not currently going for insulting.
I assumed you were tickled at having the forum recognise you as the king of skeptics.
I REALLY didn't get that impression. I honestly took it as a direct insult.
Though I am very happy knowing you weren't intending it to be that way : 3
Post by: umiman on June 09, 2016, 12:29:13 pm
Like, for example, how the Chaos generals are all wondering whether you're a god. Literally every single one of them. Also some goblins and orks. Are we gods? We don't actually do anything other than mind control hordes of people / things.
I'm also quite happy they brought back the voice lines when you poke enemy units that aren't yours. I missed this feature from Medieval 2.
-----------------
Edit: Here's some stuff from the Total War subreddit:
Developer Q&A: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4m0o70/devproducer_qa_please_submit_questions/
Summary courtesy of Reddit:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on June 09, 2016, 01:00:32 pm
Just in time for me to have nearly polished off the last few 'chivs.
Only very hard vamps to go, really.
Post by: umiman on June 09, 2016, 01:01:18 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 09, 2016, 01:02:27 pm
But do all the races available respond to gods? (let me see... Orcs yes, Humans yes, Chaos yes... Dwarves and Vampires? I actually don't know)
Post by: Tack on June 09, 2016, 01:06:08 pm
But then, blind guy keeps s'ing my D (seriously play chaos campaign for a cathartic thrill/spoilers), so I figure I'm probably grimgor or mannyvon.
But now I think about it not sure if archaeon inquires about my divinity.
Post by: Man of Paper on June 09, 2016, 10:06:33 pm
Post by: Stuebi on June 10, 2016, 01:06:00 am
Also, I've never noticed how bad Kemmler is compared to Mannfred, until a friend pointed it out. Mannie gets 2 different Lores, actual mounts, is way tankier, and starts with an enormous Bat-Werewolf thing that probably eats danger and sh*ts bullets. Doesnt really seem fair.
On a unrelated note, anyone up for some Coop? If yes, throw me a pm. The guy I usually play with doesnt like the Fantasy Setting and still plays Attila. Sad Stuebi.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 10, 2016, 01:18:58 am
One thing people were mentioning about Kemmler is that in the tabletop he has a wight king guard, Krell. I did rename a wight king and stick it with Kemmler in my game but having a guard ability where it reduces damage taken of a specific nearby unit would make the role as a bodyguard a bit more useful.
Post by: Tack on June 10, 2016, 01:58:50 am
I personally found that good 'nuff.
Post by: umiman on June 10, 2016, 03:17:40 am
Kemmler has the ability to auto heal units he stands next to (like other Necromancers). I think his starting units are also better. I honestly rather have Cairn Wraiths AND Hexwraiths rather than the one Vargulf.
Not to mention to recruit Kemmler in the campaign you need to build the library whereas to recruit Mannfred all you need to do is get the two provinces you were to get anyway.
I also think him getting on the zombie dragon is a nerf. He dies so, so, so much faster. Mannfred on foot at level 30 can solo armies. But Mannfred on the dragon seems to die to two to three squads. Looks cool though. If I play VC again I'd probably leave him on the flying undead pegasus as it's faster.
But yeah, Mannfred is stronger. He's also twice the price in a custom battle haha.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 10, 2016, 07:41:26 am
Now on a zombie dragon I feel like I have to babysit him all the time, be way more careful, and he doesn't even feel like he's much more killy for it! It's just a really sad 'upgrade' all around.
I cry every time.
I think maybe a better compromise for monster riders would be to give them two healthbars, sure, make them more killy (even more killy then they are now) but have they die quick, but when they do die that just means the monster is wounded (maybe needs some amount of cash/time to nurse back health?) and the lord steps out of the carcass and keeps on slaying. Or at least something better then this ultimate sadness...
Edit: Also I have to say, in comparisons to the total war games I've played in the past, the combat seems pretty disappointing. Not the like, tactical stuff of moving your dudes around, getting flanks, and that sorta thing, but the actual unit to unit model to model combat and how the health works and such. Stuff just seems... So much more resilient. Even on low difficulty I can charge a unit of bog standard T1 infantry with multiple units of shock Cavalry, and when zoomed out it looks properly glorious, broken bodies splaying out 20 feet back. But then disappointingly all the dudes who were throw back just stand right back up and walk into the fray, at which point the units just sorta gyrate against each other for about a minute, the infantry apparently largely unbothered by the fact that they were just partially surrounded by four times their number in heavy Cavalry that sent them all flying on the charge, until eventually their moral ticks over and like 2/3 of the unit of infantry are still alive and they just walk away. And of course I need to send a unit to chase them down otherwise they just go for like 50 meters and then think "You know, that wasn't so bad. Lets go back in for seconds lads!" Combat between infantry also has this issue somewhat, I'll totally surround a T1 unit with five times their number in high tier anti infantry infantry, and it'll be like... five minutes to kill half of them! It really seems insane. And when I zoom in it looks like that's because all the models are just buzzing against each other, only the very odd swing, and I wonder if there's something happening that lowers the damage done in a combat by overcrowding, as insanely stupid as that thought is. The only halfway satisfying combat I've found is with flying units, probably because there's not really a limit on how many models can crash into one unit. When I have a full half of my army flying, and send the whole group crashing into a single low tier unit, and there's not an enemy general nearby, if I'm lucky sometimes they break on the charge.
Whew, that turned into a bit of a rant. I still think this game is really fun. But, yeah, everyones health seems really inflated to me, and I can't help but wonder why that is. To bring it back around to monsters, this resiliency makes them quite disappointing. Mannfred charges in, sends the unit scattering, they just get back up, doesn't matter that like 4 tons of zombie dragon just smushed them and that they should probably be more interested in modeling for vampire blood pancakes then they should be in fighting at this point. Just get back up and wade back in. And oh look since they can all attack at once, the dragon gets totally wrecked as it sorta gyrates about doing practically nothing.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 10, 2016, 08:12:58 am
The other option would have been for armies to be limited in what stuff they can take, which would if anything be more gamey than bloated hitpoints are. There's little reason Mannfred couldn't take a full flock of Terrorgheists with him as a vanguard to lead his invasion of the Empire for example, it was just never allowed in tabletop for balance reasons.
As is there's a place for even tier 1 infantry in high end fights, even if that place is as a meat shield for more useful units or mass backup being carted around by a low level Lord. Which actually rather emulates tabletop, VCs best Core choice in TT was zombies because they made great tarpits and were incredibly cheap even though every other choice was a much better fighter.
Post by: Antioch on June 10, 2016, 08:16:09 am
Post by: Criptfeind on June 10, 2016, 08:36:12 am
I suspect the health bloat is to try and make heroes, monsters and magic not be too devastating to infantry such as to make even high tier ones pointless. If everyone died in one swing to a dragon or to the Purple Sun spell there'd be little reason not to just make your entire army out of Giants, Steam Tanks or Vargheists. Even stuff like Chosen would be kind of bad if they could be crushed underfoot by a Shaggoth with no real way to fight back.
Sure, it'd need to be balanced, I think that perhaps monsters and heroes are generally too too tanky as well. If a giant gets surrounded by anti large units, or maybe even just straight up fight one 1v1, it should loose, be cut down, and die in short order. Actually same with Vargheists really getting stuck in against any unit, I think they are really quite a bit too strong in front on fights in this game, on the table top I recall that they were actually quite squishy.
I think it's fine that there is a place for meat shields in the game and a cost vs benefit analysis. But it goes pretty far past the table top idea. In the table top, sure, you'd have like 40 zombies tying down roughly their own numbers or less in dudes for a while and constantly raising them back up with necromancers, but even they would explode quite quickly if they were totally surrounded by enemies. As an aside by the way, I think zombies with their incredibly poor moral in this game are probably one of the units I actually don't have issues with. If you surround them they will actually properly start dying and crumble away in pretty short order.
To be honest soldiers died WAY to fast in some recent total war games, especially in shogun 2.
This is a good point, I think, really it is personal preference eh? I like deadly combat where both my and my enemy units die quickly...
Although I'll certainly cop to me being a pretty poor player, and maybe it's a necessary part of the balance of the game that units are so sticky.
Post by: Tack on June 10, 2016, 08:55:24 am
As far as I can tell they don't crumble faster if their leadership goes in the negatives, save for game-end disintegration.
I find it an annoying mechanic when I need to free up cavalry for a back charge, and yet it's enough of a difference that my whole strategy has to change slightly vs undead, which I love.
Post by: Teneb on June 10, 2016, 12:19:15 pm
Post by: umiman on June 10, 2016, 12:28:56 pm
Waiting for a unit to crumble properly is agonising though.There's two kinds of crumbling. Normal and rapid.
As far as I can tell they don't crumble faster if their leadership goes in the negatives, save for game-end disintegration.
I find it an annoying mechanic when I need to free up cavalry for a back charge, and yet it's enough of a difference that my whole strategy has to change slightly vs undead, which I love.
--------------
Criptfeind:
Vargheists are super squishy in this. If they ever get stuck against even peasant spearmen they will all die. They're glass cannons. You can't even leave them within range of ranged units as they get cut down hilariously fast. Even faster than bats (probably because they're easier to hit).
Giants will lose 1v1 to certain dedicated anti-large units. Demigryphs for example. Terrorgheist. Slayers. Etc. They won't lose to the above peasant spearmen 1v1. Will lose 2v1 though.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 10, 2016, 12:32:43 pm
Edit: and also if infantry were nerffed to die quicker in my little fantasy for what criptfeind would like in the game, then of course monsters should be as well, so that saying monsters would be op in that case wouldn't necessarily be an issue.
Post by: umiman on June 10, 2016, 12:43:07 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on June 10, 2016, 12:45:51 pm
Post by: umiman on June 10, 2016, 12:48:15 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on June 10, 2016, 12:52:19 pm
Post by: umiman on June 10, 2016, 01:12:46 pm
But the reason I brought that all up is to show you perhaps you're not playing the counters properly or haven't explored more of the game's systems yet? You were under the impression that monsters were too durable but you've been playing VC which has no simple solutions for them. Similarly you think infantry don't die fast enough, but perhaps that can be accounted for how things like zombies et al. don't actually work very well at killing things? Honestly all of the VC's infantry are very bad at killing things. Even their Grave Guard are kinda meh compared to stuff like Ironbreakers and Greatswords. The only two "infantry" units they have which are good at fighting are the Crypt Ghouls and Cairn Wraiths.
You were talking about how the Cavalry impact doesn't seem to kill anything, and again, I think I know why you're thinking that. Is it because you've been charging the VC cavalry into lines that you bogged down with zombies and those other cute dudes? So perhaps instead of how other factions have the infantry doing damage to the other before the cavalry come in and clean up, instead the cavalry here is reliant on doing all the damage so it feels a lot slower.
Similarly, you complained that the units have a tendancy to only rout for a very short time, but did you know all undead units cause terror and fear? Fear innately reduces leadership for all units in an AOE around the unit whereas Terror causes units to roll a leadership check against it upon first contact, and if their leadership is lower than terror they will automatically rout for a few seconds before reforming. This is something fairly unique to the VC so they do a lot of what you were talking about more than the other races.
Perhaps try the other guys out first for a few hours and see if your opinion changes. Play some custom battles with high tier units like the Demigryph knights or Black Orcs. You might see things in a different light.
I think right now some of the most popular mods involve lengthening the combat because people think everything dies or routs too fast, which is contrary to your opinion.
----
That being said, this game does use the same engine as Shogun 2, Rome 2, and the extreme shit that is Empire. This engine was built for the matched combat where units would pair up and fight each other in 1v1 and have lots of execution animations and stuff like that. It was awful in Empire, quite nice in Shogun 2 (as that's what the Japanese's idea of warfare was back then though it did kinda change as it became more about total war than samurai duels as time passed), and started kinda stupid in Rome 2 but got gradually patched out.
Now it's almost completely nonexistent here. So you have the remnants of that engine where units rotate on their axis like some kind of doll and float around when they're too close together. They did that before to position units for those sync moves but now it's just kinda there. Like an extra nipple that annoys everyone except some freaks.
If you're looking for more things to nitpick about, you could also notice that units no longer have any mass or weight behind them during combat, as they can't move around the battlefield while fighting like in Medieval or Rome. So when you fight in the streets, you just stay there until someone routs whereas in the older games, if you had like 500 men pushing 50, the 50 guys would get pushed backwards gradually. I actually find that part kinda annoying.
Post by: Stuebi on June 10, 2016, 01:21:04 pm
My bigger problem with flying Units and flying mounts is the fact that they are ridicolously weak to direct projectile magic. You can kill a Chaos Dragon with 3 casts of Fireball. I have yet to see one in actual fights. They allways die a good distance away from combat before they get to do anything.
Azhag on Skullmuncha and Karl on Deathclaw are great tough. Franz's Kill power goes up noticeably after he gets his bird. And Azhag... actually sucks completely until he either gets mostly down the yellow tree, gets his Quest Items, or Skullmuncha. One of the first mods I got was that Azhag gets his mount right away, just so I had an actual motivation to actually pick him over Grimgor. ( Especially since the later is way easier to get than Azhag, if you don't start out as them respectively.)
I dunno if it's a Chaos and Vamp problem specifically. I've heard lots of people say the Dragons are an actual downgrade. Especially on Mannfred.
Post by: umiman on June 10, 2016, 01:25:15 pm
I dunno if it's a Chaos and Vamp problem specifically. I've heard lots of people say the Dragons are an actual downgrade. Especially on Mannfred.That is the case. I think it's some derpy balancing. There are mods out to fix it, which is what I'd recommend as a stopgap measure. Kinda like the nonsense agent spam shit.
The Chaos dragon is so fragile it actually dies to a handful of goblin archers.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 10, 2016, 01:25:30 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 10, 2016, 10:48:41 pm
Here's the topic. Fear drains a units morale until it reaches a specific level. It's also got the general range of these abilities, though from what the game mentions, Terror only works on the charged unit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4m81yr/psa_the_mechanics_of_terror/)
I think the best way to think about it is Fear makes it easier to units to be routed while Terror may actually make units rout.
Post by: Tack on June 11, 2016, 01:35:26 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 11, 2016, 05:47:26 pm
Gave the Greenskins a small fortune to help them kill off the Dwarfs in the south, which proved successful. Killed Bretonnia myself, while it was being ravaged my Mousillon. The Empire took the longest to kill, mostly because I was dancing around the Skaeling and the VCs for much of the game. By the end I had befriended Mousillon and the von Carsteins purely through fighting the Empire and the three of us were tag teaming Empire cities together during the final push.
Post by: Tack on June 12, 2016, 01:45:25 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 12, 2016, 02:12:52 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 14, 2016, 04:47:09 pm
I've tried all the different campaigns and I think my favorites so far are VCs, WoC, Empire, Greenskins and Dwarfs in that order. Neither Greenskins or Dwarfs suit my preferences at all, Empire is pretty nice but VCs and WoC both really suit my preference for giant monsters and units with unusual abilities.
Post by: Tack on June 14, 2016, 05:04:12 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 14, 2016, 06:01:16 pm
Only works with the right heroes, so guys like Sigvald and Kemmler can't do it because they have no mounts and get left behind by their own armies, so when I have such LLs I tend to stick them with an army of elite infantry and some monsters and just try to grind my enemies away.
Post by: Tack on June 14, 2016, 07:08:36 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 14, 2016, 07:09:40 pm
Post by: Tack on June 14, 2016, 07:17:59 pm
They go 1-1 with armoured trolls and crypt horrors i think.
Post by: Vendayn on June 14, 2016, 07:31:57 pm
As for Greenskin units, they do have low morale which is a downside. So have to micromanage them to keep sending them back to attack. The morale recovers fast though. Vampires have to deal with crumble though, which is WAY more annoying than the Greenskin morale. Oh and can't forget about giant *** spiders that Greenskins have....best unit in the game :D Overall I just love the Greenskin artstyle.
Second favorite is a toss up between Empire and Warriors of Chaos. On one hand, I love using WoC units in battle, on the other hand, their campaign gets boring fast. Even with a mod that lets them settle, its kinda meh cause everyone hates you (which makes sense, no problem there), but not my type of campaign. Chaos units are my 2nd favorite though. Empire has an awesome campaign, but really, who wants to play humans when you get awesome races? Probably same people who choose human in world of warcraft :P I can see though cause the Empire does have an awesome campaign, with the most boring units...except...karl mother****** franz.
Last are vampire counts. Which is funny, since I thought they'd be by far my favorite race in the game. I like playing their campaign spreading corruption, but I don't like playing battles with them at all. The most fun with them I have is getting flying units and owning everyone in sieges. But I find more fun overall with the others. Mannfred is an epic legendary lord though, my third favorite legendary lord in the game.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 14, 2016, 07:58:36 pm
Kholek, a Death Sorcerer, 6 Shaggoths and 12 Dragon Ogre units vs Ungrim and 19 Slayer units.
It was definitely one of the closest battles that Chaos army has ever had for me, the Slayers specialize in that sort of fight but just aren't quite durable or damaging enough to win, though they came very close and every Chaos unit broke at least once and several, including Kholek, died. Other than the Sorcerer, who hung back casting spells for a while, everything was horrifically mauled and very low on health.
I could have used the speed of my army better, but I decided to fight the way I had for most of the campaign and just got stuck in, sniped out the general and tried to grind the enemy down with superior might, but of course since Slayers are unbreakable that tactic doesn't work on them properly. Against more conventional armies a monster mob smacking into the center of the line and dragging everything into a melee brawl is rather effective, but Slayers are suited to dancing the Monster Mash.
I feel monsters and magic mixed together are a better way to kill monsters than Slayers, but Dwarfs get neither so it's kind of irrelevant.
Post by: Tack on June 14, 2016, 08:14:06 pm
I wonder if a runesmith would've been worth having one less squad of slayers.
Probably would've then just been another hero to get sniped, I guess.
Post by: umiman on June 14, 2016, 08:22:26 pm
I consider Slayers to be a pretty worthless unit due to their complete lack of armour (they die to everything super fast). However, when I was fighting against Timferius, he had one unit of Slayers and these guys were chopping my Hexwraiths into tiny little ethereal pieces. I thought the Hexwraiths would clean them up completely due to Slayers having no magic damage but nope.
So I dunno. Maybe they're some kind of super DPS unit that dies super fast. Aka a berserker.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 14, 2016, 09:06:15 pm
So I dunno. Maybe they're some kind of super DPS unit that dies super fast. Aka a berserker.
That is the basic premise behind them. Suicidal dwarfs looking to die killing the most dangerous things they can find. High damage but no real damage mitigation.
Plus your sorcerer would've done some pretty brutal damage against the unarmored dwarfies.
I wonder if a runesmith would've been worth having one less squad of slayers.
Probably would've then just been another hero to get sniped, I guess.
I don't think a Runesmith would have made much difference in the fight, the buffs they have are ok, but not really game changing if you ask me, and it definitely would have been crushed underfoot by a Shaggoth or sniped by the Sorcerer pretty quick since that's my general strategy when running the Dragon Ogre blob.
The Sorcerer didn't actually do much damage. I don't know why it is but even overcast vortex spells don't seem to do much. I flung a Purple Sun at the bearded ones, but it didn't seem to make much of an impact, Ungrim got hit with a drain and was finished off by a Shaggoth trampling him. Other than that the only magic I cast was the debuff spell that lowers enemy morale and damage. By the time he got sent into the melee himself the Slayers were mostly dead and all were down to about 3 men.
A Lore of Fire Sorcerer would probably have done more since they get much better anti-infantry spells, but then they can't snipe to save their lives so I never really bothered with them.
Post by: Teneb on June 14, 2016, 09:23:57 pm
My favorite army is Sigvald Suneater and 19 units of Chosen with great weapons.Yeah, slayers are pretty much berserk suicide dorfs, so...
I consider Slayers to be a pretty worthless unit due to their complete lack of armour (they die to everything super fast). However, when I was fighting against Timferius, he had one unit of Slayers and these guys were chopping my Hexwraiths into tiny little ethereal pieces. I thought the Hexwraiths would clean them up completely due to Slayers having no magic damage but nope.
So I dunno. Maybe they're some kind of super DPS unit that dies super fast. Aka a berserker.
From what I played with them in a short attempt at the dwarfs, it seems to me that they're the kind of unit you take if you know the enemy's gonna packing monsters. Pretty useless against the humies (or other dorfs), though.
Post by: umiman on June 14, 2016, 11:30:43 pm
Again, I was really surprised that they almost killed my Hexwraiths. As far as I'm aware they don't get any bonuses against them and honestly it should have been a matchup in which they've have been destroyed.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 14, 2016, 11:46:37 pm
I use slayers to counter things like trolls. They're not something I tend to take in most armies but going against the norse tribes they're more useful. Otherwise I would take ironbreakers or hammerers.
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2016, 12:08:29 am
Would Hexwraiths have much armour and health besides the ethereal statistic?Hexwraiths have pretty worthless stats besides the ethereal statistic. Just like the banshee and cairn wraiths. Their HP is also really low and they have no armour.
I use slayers to counter things like trolls. They're not something I tend to take in most armies but going against the norse tribes they're more useful. Otherwise I would take ironbreakers or hammerers.
I figured out why. I thought Slayers were anti-monster but they're just anti-large... same as spears. So they actually make pretty good anti-cavalry troops as well.
Post by: Tack on June 15, 2016, 12:22:31 am
You're better off letting the cavalry charge the quarrellers or whatnot, and then pinning them in place with Slayers.
In other news: (gee, this thread dead already?)
Is it hardcoded for the greenskin clans to confederate when chaos rides?
Playing VC and trying to keep the bloody spears in the pocket as my dorf-dwelling friend-faction, but their self-confidence is bloody awful. I end up helping them take much of Zhufbar and Karak Kadrin, but then they go and join up with the game-start-at-war faction.
Not sure what I can do short of sending an army downriver to try and nix a greenskin army or two, but that's a whole other kettle of fish 'cos the top knots have gotten pretty rowdy.
Post by: ATHATH on June 17, 2016, 12:24:13 pm
Complete a hero-only run.
Rules:
1. If you ever get given any units that aren't heroes, you must immediately disband them.
2. You cannot produce any units that aren't heroes.
Exceptions to rules 1 & 2: You may recruit or receive non-hero units if they are required for a quest, but you cannot use them in any battles (reload a previous save file if you do) or intimidate the AI with them, and must disband them immediately after they are no longer needed for quests. Your vassals and your AI controlled Waaagh armies ARE allowed to have and produce non-hero units, and can use them in battle as they normally would.
3. Garrisons, confederation, embedding your heroes into an army made up entirely of heroes, and creating vassals are all allowed.
Post by: ATHATH on June 17, 2016, 12:25:17 pm
Post by: Persus13 on June 17, 2016, 12:28:08 pm
Are Greenskin Waaghs AI controlled? I haven't played as them yet.Yes, but you can give them war coordination targets like you can with allies.
Post by: umiman on June 17, 2016, 12:29:03 pm
I propose a challenge, to any who will accept it (and post an LP of it here):Super easy on normal. Impossible on Legendary. The enemy lords will three shot you on Legendary while you plunk away at them. On normal you could beat the entire game with just Karl Franz.
Complete a hero-only run.
Rules:
1. If you ever get given any units that aren't heroes, you must immediately disband them.
2. You cannot produce any units that aren't heroes.
Exceptions to rules 1 & 2: You may recruit or receive non-hero units if they are required for a quest, but you cannot use them in any battles (reload a previous save file if you do) or intimidate the AI with them, and must disband them immediately after they are no longer needed for quests. Your vassals ARE allowed to have and produce non-hero units, and can use them in battle as they normally would.
3. Garrisons, confederation, embedding your heroes into an army made up entirely of heroes, and creating vassals are all allowed.
Post by: ATHATH on June 17, 2016, 01:03:23 pm
But if you never fight an offensive battle, their lord superiority isn't as important...I propose a challenge, to any who will accept it (and post an LP of it here):Super easy on normal. Impossible on Legendary. The enemy lords will three shot you on Legendary while you plunk away at them. On normal you could beat the entire game with just Karl Franz.
Complete a hero-only run.
Rules:
1. If you ever get given any units that aren't heroes, you must immediately disband them.
2. You cannot produce any units that aren't heroes.
Exceptions to rules 1 & 2: You may recruit or receive non-hero units if they are required for a quest, but you cannot use them in any battles (reload a previous save file if you do) or intimidate the AI with them, and must disband them immediately after they are no longer needed for quests. Your vassals ARE allowed to have and produce non-hero units, and can use them in battle as they normally would.
3. Garrisons, confederation, embedding your heroes into an army made up entirely of heroes, and creating vassals are all allowed.
Plus, you could just assassinate potentially troubling lords outside of combat.
Basically, the point of the challenge is to try to fight almost no battles directly, and instead abusing public order penalties (and the rebellions that they cause), vassals, confederation, and diplomacy to win.
Post by: Frumple on June 17, 2016, 01:33:52 pm
Post by: umiman on June 17, 2016, 01:55:02 pm
But if you never fight an offensive battle, their lord superiority isn't as important...Uhh... how do you win exactly if you never attack?
But yeah, you'd definitely have to mod it. As it stands you can barely fill one army with heroes. Not to mention you'd have to make them way easier to get. The Empire for example can't even get anything but Captains in the early game. There's the one other wizard you can get from the quest battle but that might be interesting depending on your difficulty level.
Again, on normal you'd wipe them but on legendary you die in three hits. Hard and very hard lie somewhere in that spectrum.
You might also have to look into increasing the winds of magic because right now having more than 1 spellcaster just basically reduces your cooldowns, so to say. Especially before they have the thing that boosts the winds a tiny bit.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 17, 2016, 01:59:40 pm
The main problem I see is that it takes a while to get access to heros for several factions. Having to rely solely on Lords for the first two dozen turns wouldn't really go all that well.
Post by: ATHATH on June 17, 2016, 02:28:50 pm
You'd win by confederating with or vassalizing other factions.But if you never fight an offensive battle, their lord superiority isn't as important...Uhh... how do you win exactly if you never attack?
But yeah, you'd definitely have to mod it. As it stands you can barely fill one army with heroes. Not to mention you'd have to make them way easier to get. The Empire for example can't even get anything but Captains in the early game. There's the one other wizard you can get from the quest battle but that might be interesting depending on your difficulty level.
Again, on normal you'd wipe them but on legendary you die in three hits. Hard and very hard lie somewhere in that spectrum.
You might also have to look into increasing the winds of magic because right now having more than 1 spellcaster just basically reduces your cooldowns, so to say. Especially before they have the thing that boosts the winds a tiny bit.
Post by: umiman on June 17, 2016, 03:06:39 pm
...
How can...
...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on June 17, 2016, 05:57:55 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on June 20, 2016, 02:45:52 pm
Post by: Vendayn on June 20, 2016, 03:36:17 pm
The mod makes every playable Legendary Lord (including Chaos, but I'll be making a version that keeps Chaos immortality for those that prefer that, it probably be version I use) to be mortal. Well sorta. I made their recovery time 1000 extra turns, which is pretty much way past an average game length of turns to begin with.
I find this will really change how the game is played. Imagine being Grimgor as Greenskins, he is your toughest unit. Decked out in Legendary Items, highly skilled. You go to battle, manage him badly, and down he goes for pretty much the entire rest of the game. That is quite a setback. Or if you are the one who defeated him, that would be quite a victory in the war against Greenskins.
Does this make the game easier/harder? Will AI break down the road (it shouldn't, AI can still more than easily recruit normal generals like they already do)? No idea. However it definitely will change how I personally use the Legendary Lords, and change how I do battles and expand my empire.
Hope you guys like it.
Post by: Vendayn on June 21, 2016, 04:03:50 am
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=707804716
:)
Post by: Tack on June 21, 2016, 04:20:22 am
My favorite mod of all time for this game is the one that limits all heroes to 1 of a kind per faction. No longer do I have 6 heroes clumped around my cities, spamming assassinations and sabotage attempts. Discontent with the default number of agents seems to be a common complaint.I thought it was 1 base +1 per appropriate tech building?
Is the AI under the same restrictions usually?
Post by: Mech#4 on June 21, 2016, 04:55:44 am
I would guess the A.I. is restricted in how many agents can hire and maybe in when it can get them (needing the building) but I'm going to guess the A.I. heroes get more experience so they level up faster.
Post by: Tack on June 21, 2016, 05:46:13 am
Post by: Grim Portent on June 21, 2016, 09:22:53 am
The Empire is dead, slain by my hand. The remaining Empire provinces have all pledged their allegiance to the von Carsteins in recognition of their actions against the Norscans and the forces of Chaos.
This has also drawn the attention of Grimgor Ironhide, who approached me with ever greater offers of alliance, which I graciously accepted. One of my Lords has traveled south to assist the Greenskins in eliminating the Dwarfs. With any luck once they are dead the Greenskins will send an army or two to help me fend off Chaos.
Post by: ATHATH on June 27, 2016, 02:10:20 am
Tldr: Vortexes actually deal more damage to heavy units that light ones. Why? We're not quite sure, but it probably has something to do with the flinging and knockback that vortexes tend to do. The two prevailing theories are as follows:
1. The vortexes knock lighter models out of their area of effect before they take much damage. Heavier ones aren't blasted away so easily, so they stick around to take damage for longer.
2. Models are invulnerable while they are being flung. Since heavier models resist getting flung for longer than lighter ones, they stick around to take damage for longer.
This is probably why Burning Head seems much better than many other vortex spells- it has lower-than-average knockback values.
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2016, 12:05:18 pm
I'd like to collaborate but I've been using so many mods that I don't even know what the vanilla values are any more.
The only Vortex spells I like using are Winds of Death and Pillar of Flame incidentally. Winds of Death is hilarious in that since it travels in a straight line (and bounces), all you have to do is move your caster to the edge of the inevitable line both your armies are fighting in, then blast the ENTIRE enemy line with it. They will all instantly rout. I also really like the Lore of Heaven's Push spell for the same reason.
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2016, 04:24:21 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 29, 2016, 09:14:17 am
The update will add five new battle maps as well as the Blood Knights for Vampire Counts. Tier 5 heavy vampiric cavalry with frenzy.
(http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_1)
There's also details on the planned beta opt-in patch for testing DirectX 12 for those with video cards able to use it. Creative Assembly are working with AMD so those cards will work best at the moment. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_DirectX_12_System_Requirements)
Post by: Tack on June 29, 2016, 10:04:53 am
Quote
Mork is now Morkier
Goblins are now more ticklish
Gork is now appreciably Gorkier
Best patch. About time.
Post by: Persus13 on June 29, 2016, 10:08:02 am
Post by: Tack on June 29, 2016, 10:13:41 am
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 12:01:46 pm
Didn't they just make AI heroes level slower and suck more on easier difficulties?AI-controlled Heroes now receive half the amount of XP that the player would following an action.
Reduced AI-controlled Hero success chance on Easy and Normal difficulties.
Rebalanced traits and followers that could affect Hero action success chance.
Hero actions that damage the entire target army cause significantly less damage.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 29, 2016, 12:16:02 pm
Also I'm rock hard for blood knights, even though I already did a vampire campaign I'm pretty sure I'm going to replay one just for them, and probably play some multiplayer games with them as well. Hopefully they are more op then grail knights (no idea of the patch for grail knights is a nerf or a buff lol. But they've seemed strong in my limited use of them in multiplayer.)
Post by: Teneb on June 29, 2016, 12:30:48 pm
Also pretty hyped for the blood knights. The ones from the mod in the workshop are horribly balanced (too strong) and broken (if they are the last unit in the army alive the AI will outright ignore them, making it impossible to lose).
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 12:33:09 pm
I'm somewhat amused that Chaos got a buff. Though I guess yeah, most of their non-chosen units were pretty meh. I'm also amused that Chosen of all things got a buff. Those guys are nuts as it is.
Post by: Teneb on June 29, 2016, 12:38:03 pm
Heroes make playing as Chaos impossible. You get swarmed by them since you're at war with everyone and they just gangbang you into submission. They're just annoying for the other races.Chosen buff was probably the smallest of the lot, being just +Armor.
I'm somewhat amused that Chaos got a buff. Though I guess yeah, most of their non-chosen units were pretty meh. I'm also amused that Chosen of all things got a buff. Those guys are nuts as it is.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 12:42:09 pm
This thing: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4q9m58/teaser_for_upcoming_warhammer_dlc/
But it's probably Krell.
Post by: Teneb on June 29, 2016, 01:03:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on June 29, 2016, 01:06:33 pm
Also argh why Krell. I'd expect dragonslayers, considering how few lords and heroes the dwarves have.
Post by: Teneb on June 29, 2016, 01:38:39 pm
IMO chosen were previously just more expensive warriors with a Ld buff. The armor increase was a good move.Because Krell is awesome and Kemmler by himself is just not the same.
Also argh why Krell. I'd expect dragonslayers, considering how few lords and heroes the dwarves have.
Some people are speculating it is the beastmen instead.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 01:42:10 pm
IMO chosen were previously just more expensive warriors with a Ld buff. The armor increase was a good move.Chosen:
Also argh why Krell. I'd expect dragonslayers, considering how few lords and heroes the dwarves have.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
---------------
Chaos Warriors:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
------------
=|
Hell... the leadership buff is actually the smallest relative buff compared to everything else there. How did you even come to that conclusion?
Post by: Tack on June 29, 2016, 01:46:02 pm
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 01:52:36 pm
Speaking of which... even if we include unit size in this.
Chosen HP pool: 7200
Warriors HP pool: 6500
------------
I was looking through the DLC plans and they mention Lord packs which has 2 new legendary lords and 2 new lords. I wonder what that means. Strigoi for VC? Actually... I can really see the Strigoi happening for the VC as they have events talking about it.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on June 29, 2016, 02:26:10 pm
Quote
Autoresolver now deals less damage to high quality units (e.g. Slayers) in standard battle situations and deals more to low quality units.
Well, it'll need to be a pretty big effect. Slayers almost always took >50% losses in autoresolved, even in a decisive victory against weak enemy forces.
Post by: Tack on June 29, 2016, 02:31:05 pm
I now believe how powerful the chosen are.
I wonder why I was so undersold back when I did the VH chaos run.
Random topic segway- I've nearly 100%ed the game- although my Orc game is too far ahead for me to get the 2nd raiding 'chieve, so I'll probably need to start a new homerun campaign.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 02:38:17 pm
Them being resistant to getting tossed does it for me.I'm still on turn 200+ on my VC run. This is taking forever. I know I should just end it by finishing off the Empire but the Norsca and Orks are pissing me off so much.
I now believe how powerful the chosen are.
I wonder why I was so undersold back when I did the VH chaos run.
Random topic segway- I've nearly 100%ed the game- although my Orc game is too far ahead for me to get the 2nd raiding 'chieve, so I'll probably need to start a new homerun campaign.
Post by: Tack on June 29, 2016, 02:42:48 pm
I've just smashed 4/5 chaos armies but I feel that if age of peace procs, I won't have any armor in place to settle and the empire will get far too powerful.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 29, 2016, 10:24:02 pm
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2016, 10:36:35 pm
Here we go boizzz... Blood for the Blood God DLC. Incoming "This is everything I've ever wanted in my life" and "they should have included this in the game in the first place"!
Post by: Tack on June 30, 2016, 04:03:35 am
What's happening?
Post by: Teneb on June 30, 2016, 05:46:08 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on June 30, 2016, 07:09:38 am
That and considering their "FLC" content, the next thing is a new hero. Krell would fit there, he was a former Khorne Champion before his death and the legendary wight lord is Kemmeler's best bodyguard.
Post by: Criptfeind on June 30, 2016, 10:02:51 am
Post by: Tack on June 30, 2016, 11:00:57 am
It's just a running joke now.
Thankfully bundling is not their style, unless they do the thing where the Wood Elves won't be visible or playable unless you buy the "war of the beard" mini-campaign.
Post by: umiman on June 30, 2016, 11:19:18 am
But don't fret, here's the official trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOxvqLYxTDo
Edit: Also the patch is out... 2gb guh.
Post by: Knave on June 30, 2016, 11:51:32 am
http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_1 (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_1)
Post by: umiman on June 30, 2016, 01:00:21 pm
I have to admit, my first thought was... "What? Three dollars for a graphics option?" But... It's pretty inoffensive compared to what it could have been. I guess it could have been "The blood and gore pack, introducing bloodknights! Lead by Krell! Only 19.99!" So. Eyyy. I guess it's all alrite.It's just how it is basically.
Originally they had to do that because the ratings organizations won't let them keep their Teen (?) rating if there was blood in it or if they released it as a free DLC since that was considered "part of the game included in the price" or something like that. So with Shogun 2 they released it for like $1 and it was bloody brilliant. Freaking heads flying off, limbs flying off, everyone was getting dismembered. You'd get blood on the screen, in the grass, on the battlements, everywhere. Fountains of it.
It was $3 for Rome 2. Rome 2's version kinda sucked though. Nowhere near as gratuitous or messy as Shogun 2's. Don't know why they decided it was worth $3.
Here it's $3 as well.
Why? Who knows. Maybe they had to animate more stuff. Maybe it was more difficult to figure out how blood works for things like dragons and giants. Maybe they needed more money for their slave gladiatorial fighting arenas.
I bought it anyway~ My enjoyment factor for the Total War games goes up severalfold with the blood DLCs.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on June 30, 2016, 01:02:00 pm
Post by: umiman on June 30, 2016, 01:06:44 pm
----------
Edit: So I was fiddling around with the DLC to see what they added. When I was watching a replay in slow motion, I noticed something pretty interesting. Apparently each individual model's head will turn to face the target they're focusing on. So like, I had a Longbeard guy walking back to his unit after moving out a bit too far. As he walked up, a retreating Swordsman ran past him. The Longbeard turned his head to look at the Swordsman run past him before continuing back up towards his unit.
So I checked and yeah, all the Dwarfen units at least do this. They all will turn their heads to look at stuff without having to move their entire body.
Oh, and this DLC gibs people. blow off their torsos and stuff so only the legs remain and things like that. I also saw some Empire soldiers get headshotted with their heads exploding and their bodies flumping over. Also everyone looks like they're covered in... canned tomato paste. Even their avatars on the bottom left.
Here are some screenshots I took of a Chaos vs VC battle with the DLC:
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/490146591482339558/E5D4658ED64269DB1E2C4949704158A9BA7992E8/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/490146591482339405/34F2EE502FC3EF875C01C37A9C5EB23E57F74AE2/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/490146591482340090/48BB0B74476840E92C0EC8852C6C8FEC03440418/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/490146591482340204/32BA115D49934CE2B3AB127B19A8B2360B56D84E/)
Post by: Grim Portent on June 30, 2016, 03:20:56 pm
The gore looks pretty good. Very much an improvement over just seeing people sent flying or falling down.
Post by: umiman on July 01, 2016, 01:49:16 am
However, what you end up with is a unit with only very slightly better stats than the Reiksguard... and there's 60 of them.
Hang on a second. These are vampires. Like, the kinds that come as one single unit and is a hero and can kill a hundred men without batting an eye. Your entire army will probably have 2 or 3. Why are there SIXTY of them in a single unit?! And why are they only as strong as Reiksguard?!
Thankfully there is a mod that fixes this: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=714192059&searchtext=monstrous
--------
I've also noticed that combat seems to have slowed down somewhat. I've actually removed the combat mods because the base game seems to be slow enough as it is. The high tier artillery also seems to have gotten good buffs and made them actually viable.
They also made the dragons not worthless.
Overall I like the balancing they did.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on July 01, 2016, 02:47:14 am
Quote
The new Blood Knight units are a bit... strange to see. They're supposed to be full-bore vampires mounted and geared like the best knights. They're actually supposed to be the BEST knights.
Which is funny because they only got called such because they were added in newer editions, Grail Knights were supposed to be THE BEST knights of all time.
Post by: Tack on July 01, 2016, 05:40:49 am
However I agree with the Blood Knight thing. Aren't they meant to be T5 on table?
(That being said, anti-large cavalry are my waifu)
Post by: Mech#4 on July 01, 2016, 06:45:14 am
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2016, 07:32:13 am
I like what they've done with the blood dlc, though I was hoping it would add some animations for things like death by fireball, electricity or troll bile.
Look they are giving out a gore mod for free, they can't do everything.
Wait what was that? They are charging?
Post by: Tack on July 01, 2016, 08:55:22 am
Incoming "they should have included this in the game in the first place"!And it was Neo, too. Awesome.
Something Something Free = No Teen rating.
Post by: Hetairos on July 01, 2016, 04:44:03 pm
The high tier artillery also seems to have gotten good buffs and made them actually viable.
Artillery in general seems stronger now. I killed six Crypt Horrors with a single dwarven cannon battery before they closed in. Grudgebringers smashed much of the Grave Guard too.
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2016, 09:04:25 pm
Incoming "they should have included this in the game in the first place"!And it was Neo, too. Awesome.
Something Something Free = No Teen rating.
Naw my argument is that if they charge for it, they should put in more effort.
Post by: sambojin on July 02, 2016, 05:11:12 pm
$3 doesn't get you much. Some people will feel like they got screwed, some will fall in love with it. It just depends on whether you're into that sort of thing or not.
Post by: lordcooper on July 02, 2016, 06:29:09 pm
Incoming "they should have included this in the game in the first place"!And it was Neo, too. Awesome.
Something Something Free = No Teen rating.
If age rating was the concern here, they'd release it as a mod on Steam Workshop or charge a penny for it.
Post by: Teneb on July 02, 2016, 06:31:57 pm
Post by: Micro102 on July 05, 2016, 03:27:14 am
Post by: Neonivek on July 05, 2016, 03:31:01 am
Does anyone else find the battlefields lacking? They are just huge pieces of flat land, maybe with a bump that no one will ever use that will hide some troops for a few seconds, but you know they are there. Very rarely do I find a useful patch of trees, or a hill big enough to have an effect on battle. I've yet to see a river and oddly enough fighting in the mountain regions still gives flat land. Then you have the underground, just a big flat arena. It makes it feel like using terrain is ultimately pointless.
But that is exactly the way Fantasy Warhammer works and this game is completely 100% factual to the source material.
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2016, 05:19:19 am
Does anyone else find the battlefields lacking? They are just huge pieces of flat land, maybe with a bump that no one will ever use that will hide some troops for a few seconds, but you know they are there. Very rarely do I find a useful patch of trees, or a hill big enough to have an effect on battle. I've yet to see a river and oddly enough fighting in the mountain regions still gives flat land. Then you have the underground, just a big flat arena. It makes it feel like using terrain is ultimately pointless.Yeah it's pretty shite.
There's only a handful of maps that are even remotely memorable. Blackfire Pass is great. La Maisontal Abbey is... interesting with all the forests everywhere and strange hill formations. There's Sigvald's Golden Dick.
That's basically all I know. All the rest are just... flat with a few tiny bumps here and there.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 05, 2016, 08:16:59 am
Post by: Tack on July 05, 2016, 09:00:03 am
About time. Also, could probably use a little tooltip telling people how to overcharge a spell.
On another note: The new 'Age of peace' is crazy and not at all peaceful. I love it!
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 05, 2016, 09:23:32 am
Making the animations, blood, dismemberment and such takes work. That said, it probably should be maybe a dollar cheaper, considering it's very much not a real gameplay addition.
Not correct. It also has various random events. For example, I encountered one that gave +20 weapon damage to everyone in my faction (I was Chaos, so...) for a few turns.
It's not big, but it's more than animations and particle effects.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 05, 2016, 09:27:54 am
On another note: The new 'Age of peace' is crazy and not at all peaceful. I love it!
I was thinking on the idea of whether the game could be perpetual in a way. Every 100 or so turns a new chaos invasion appears, the various factions unite again and then splinter when the threat is dealt with. Though the problem there is what to do if factions have been wiped out. Do you have lots of race insurgent armies appear and try to retake their territory? Spawning stacks of enemy armies is something I really disliked in the Call of Warhammer mod.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2016, 10:39:12 am
About time. Also, could probably use a little tooltip telling people how to overcharge a spell.Speaking of, how do you do that?
Post by: Criptfeind on July 05, 2016, 10:52:40 am
Post by: Tack on July 05, 2016, 12:14:32 pm
Do you have lots of race insurgent armies appear and try to retake their territory? Spawning stacks of enemy armies is something I really disliked in the Call of Warhammer mod.
No, thankfully. Although... Savage Orc armies tend to spawn... Well, so far only in your territories and usually near one of your armies.
Post by: Teneb on July 07, 2016, 12:32:12 pm
Post by: umiman on July 07, 2016, 12:52:18 pm
Hey, anyone got any advice for the Starcrusher quest? I've yet to manage to beat it, though I do manage to get to the final wave.I found it pretty easy. What's the issue?
Uhh... unless you're doing it from the quest battle select screen where it just gives you marauders? That might be a bit tricky.
When I did it I had an entire army of Chaos Warriors, a Hellcannon, and two heroes on Manticores.
Post by: Teneb on July 07, 2016, 12:54:26 pm
It may be that it's because I lack the hellcannon and the fliers. I guess I'll just wait until I have some chosen and more research.Hey, anyone got any advice for the Starcrusher quest? I've yet to manage to beat it, though I do manage to get to the final wave.I found it pretty easy. What's the issue?
Uhh... unless you're doing it from the quest battle select screen where it just gives you marauders? That might be a bit tricky.
When I did it I had an entire army of Chaos Warriors, a Hellcannon, and two heroes on Manticores.
Post by: umiman on July 07, 2016, 01:01:43 pm
IIRC the only threats were the Terrorgheist and the Ork on a Wyvern. But you can just sic Kholek on them and they'll get wrecked.
If you haven't already, you should probably destroy the buildings that build the useless marauders. They're pointless and waste both your and your enemy's time. All you need is warriors, chosen, and hellcannons. Grab some lore of death along the way, maybe some manticores. Then your strategy from that point forward is to walk towards your enemy and obliterate them.
Post by: Teneb on July 07, 2016, 01:31:33 pm
Post by: Tack on July 07, 2016, 01:41:12 pm
Post by: umiman on July 07, 2016, 01:48:13 pm
I think Sigvald has the best start among all the Chaos lords. He starts with a frigging Hellcannon. Nothing else compares. Because it means all the enemies have to come to you and the Hellcannon is easily one of the best artillery in the game.
Also his gear regenerates him at a really fast rate, so you don't have to spend so much time healing your lord unlike Kholek or Archaeon. Kholek is the worst for this as he takes so much damage due to his gigantic body.
Post by: Teneb on July 11, 2016, 03:42:57 pm
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 11, 2016, 04:37:46 pm
I think in my VH Chaos run, I was Sigvald. For the first 30 turns or so I was just raiding the same bloody villages over and over again. I think I only started going outside the starting area when I was level 20.
Why so long? After I awakened and subjugated Bear tribe, I pretty much went straight to Kislev.
Never made a 2nd stack, won around turn 130. It was my first attempt and I think I could have gone faster, even. Wasted a lot of time on buildings that weren't very good (like trolls).
Post by: umiman on July 11, 2016, 04:48:53 pm
Dunno. I wasn't really taking it very seriously and I kinda liked doing it.I think in my VH Chaos run, I was Sigvald. For the first 30 turns or so I was just raiding the same bloody villages over and over again. I think I only started going outside the starting area when I was level 20.
Why so long? After I awakened and subjugated Bear tribe, I pretty much went straight to Kislev.
Post by: Teneb on July 11, 2016, 04:50:52 pm
EDIT: anyway, about the tweet and based on when the Blood Knights came out, I think that CA is pairing up the free DLCs with the paid ones. So we may be looking at a huntsmaster hero for the empire. The letter there also mentions a crowfather, which is part of Malagor's name... so I guess he's one of the LLs.
Post by: Micro102 on July 11, 2016, 05:33:59 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 11, 2016, 06:19:43 pm
So I've resorted back to my old Total War:Rome cheapass tactic of hiding in the corner of the map so I have less weakpoints vs cavalry. Works great for dwarves but I'm just upset that they don't have a good counter to cavalry and I have to resort to the abuse of game mechanics (because fighting in mountainous regions doesn't create more than a small hill to hide on). I try defending with shield guys and then countering with great weapon guys, but that requires me to completely circle my quarrelers with troops to counter 2-3 cavalry units.What I tend to do if I'm on defense against cavalry is to set up my main infantry line and then take whichever side the cavalry is coming from and setting them diagonally.
Something like this:
Key: I = infantry ; A = archers/artillery
I I I I I I
A A I
I
Cavalry tends to break pretty easy when in extended melees, so try to get another unit in their rear to prevent them from escaping and charging again. If you are playing dwarfs though, your archers can take some charges and walk it off (orc arrer boyz too, to a lesser extent).
Post by: Micro102 on July 11, 2016, 06:25:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 11, 2016, 06:28:09 pm
I don't get any of that. I get cavalry on both sides, and they actively avoid my melee units to rush the archers. They also don't stay in melee for me, they back off and then rush again from a different angle. These are wolf and boar riders if that means anything.I don't think I've ever got an AI army, not counting reinforcements, that would split it's cavalry to hit from both sides in this game. You are playing dwarfs though, so you can actually make a block with your infantry and put ranged in the middle and you'll be fine against everything but monsters and vortexes.
Post by: umiman on July 11, 2016, 07:37:52 pm
I've seen it. One side will be the big flank, the other will be a flank of just one unit. Or one will be cavalry, the other flying units. Something like that.I don't get any of that. I get cavalry on both sides, and they actively avoid my melee units to rush the archers. They also don't stay in melee for me, they back off and then rush again from a different angle. These are wolf and boar riders if that means anything.I don't think I've ever got an AI army, not counting reinforcements, that would split it's cavalry to hit from both sides in this game. You are playing dwarfs though, so you can actually make a block with your infantry and put ranged in the middle and you'll be fine against everything but monsters and vortexes.
Post by: Vendayn on July 11, 2016, 07:55:07 pm
https://www.google.com/search?q=warhammer+beastmen&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA7aHm2uzNAhWI7CYKHYGNDxIQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_ (https://www.google.com/search?q=warhammer+beastmen&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA7aHm2uzNAhWI7CYKHYGNDxIQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_)
hope they make them look as awesome as the ones in the images. They remind me of a diablo-esque style race...will look so awesome :D
Definitely will be re-using Chaos mechanics, so they'll be almost certainly a horde style race. But if they make them look even close to what those images show, they will be far the most bada** looking units (currently) in the game.
Post by: Teneb on July 11, 2016, 07:56:35 pm
I'm super pumped for beastmen on thursday :DAnd hopefuly they won't be shit like pretty much everyone who plays the TT say they are.
https://www.google.com/search?q=warhammer+beastmen&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA7aHm2uzNAhWI7CYKHYGNDxIQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_ (https://www.google.com/search?q=warhammer+beastmen&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=911&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjA7aHm2uzNAhWI7CYKHYGNDxIQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=_)
hope they make them look as awesome as the ones in the images. They remind me of a diablo-esque style race...will look so awesome :D
Definitely will be re-using Chaos mechanics, so they'll be almost certainly a horde style race. But if they make them look even close to what those images show, they will be far the most bada** looking units (currently) in the game.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 11, 2016, 10:28:04 pm
Post by: umiman on July 11, 2016, 10:38:08 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 11, 2016, 10:55:58 pm
Monsters are the likes of giants, chaos spawn, Cygor (ranged giant that throws rocks), Ghorgon (frenzied giant-like) and the Jabberslythe (flying, manticore-like with an ability to drive enemies insane).
Post by: Tack on July 11, 2016, 11:43:14 pm
Edit: oops thought it was an announcement. I doubt we'll see them this game.
Post by: Vendayn on July 12, 2016, 12:07:30 am
They hordebound?
Edit: oops thought it was an announcement. I doubt we'll see them this game.
Not officially
But
https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/752503134711386112
Most people are saying this means beastmen. But it could be just a legendary hero. It wouldn't take much mechanic change for beastmen, they'd be a horde like chaos, so very easy to do this game.
Free DLC most likely bretonnia, beastmen for paid
Post by: Teneb on July 12, 2016, 05:56:20 am
Post by: Grim Portent on July 12, 2016, 09:11:44 am
Post by: Puzzlemaker on July 12, 2016, 10:20:17 am
Post by: Ludorum Rex on July 12, 2016, 10:45:36 am
Post by: Hetairos on July 12, 2016, 11:41:35 am
Post by: Teneb on July 12, 2016, 11:45:29 am
So, Huntsmarshall Markus Wulfhart?Free stuff schedule says hero and not LL, so only a generic hunstman.
Post by: Tack on July 12, 2016, 01:55:41 pm
Tsarina!!
Post by: Teneb on July 12, 2016, 05:03:39 pm
Human hero?Hero, no Lord or LL. And Kislev is not even playable... or even has its own units.
Tsarina!!
Post by: Tack on July 13, 2016, 12:23:42 am
They only have Big boss and Shaman, could use some extras.
Although, not sure if the Orks are that diverse..
Post by: Mech#4 on July 13, 2016, 01:58:45 am
I'm pretty sure there was some mention of CA adding Wurrzag Da Great Green Prophet as a Lord at some point but I don't have a quote for that.
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 13, 2016, 08:31:50 am
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2016, 08:51:39 am
This was teased. Also the url without the img tags is https://cdn.creative-assembly.com/total-war/forums/banner/20160713-beastman-tease-banner.png
Post by: Mech#4 on July 13, 2016, 08:58:34 am
Spoiler: So others can try (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2016, 09:16:02 am
The last one was said by CA to be translated phonetically rather than being words in a chaos language.The "words" are Rhuarudh Rhufchar Dhuak. Anyway, I wonder how they'll even work.Spoiler: So others can try (click to show/hide)
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 13, 2016, 11:16:06 am
So I've resorted back to my old Total War:Rome cheapass tactic of hiding in the corner of the map so I have less weakpoints vs cavalry. Works great for dwarves but I'm just upset that they don't have a good counter to cavalry and I have to resort to the abuse of game mechanics (because fighting in mountainous regions doesn't create more than a small hill to hide on). I try defending with shield guys and then countering with great weapon guys, but that requires me to completely circle my quarrelers with troops to counter 2-3 cavalry units.
The best counter to cavalry as dwarves is to fight in the underway and spread your front line across the entire map so that nothing can flank you.
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2016, 11:18:20 am
I don't think you can force an underway battle.So I've resorted back to my old Total War:Rome cheapass tactic of hiding in the corner of the map so I have less weakpoints vs cavalry. Works great for dwarves but I'm just upset that they don't have a good counter to cavalry and I have to resort to the abuse of game mechanics (because fighting in mountainous regions doesn't create more than a small hill to hide on). I try defending with shield guys and then countering with great weapon guys, but that requires me to completely circle my quarrelers with troops to counter 2-3 cavalry units.The best counter to cavalry as dwarves is to fight in the underway and spread your front line across the entire map so that nothing can flank you.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 13, 2016, 11:54:32 am
I don't think you can force an underway battle.So I've resorted back to my old Total War:Rome cheapass tactic of hiding in the corner of the map so I have less weakpoints vs cavalry. Works great for dwarves but I'm just upset that they don't have a good counter to cavalry and I have to resort to the abuse of game mechanics (because fighting in mountainous regions doesn't create more than a small hill to hide on). I try defending with shield guys and then countering with great weapon guys, but that requires me to completely circle my quarrelers with troops to counter 2-3 cavalry units.The best counter to cavalry as dwarves is to fight in the underway and spread your front line across the entire map so that nothing can flank you.
I thought that if you were in Underway stance and another army attacked, the battle would be in the Underway. Of course you can't 100% initiate a battle while in underway stance, but instead have to rely on interception (which also has the advantage of no retreats for the enemy, so 100% casualties).
Post by: umiman on July 13, 2016, 11:56:38 am
Which is fine, since 3-1 odds isn't particularly hard as the dwarves when the enemy can't flank you.
Post by: Tack on July 13, 2016, 02:33:47 pm
Post by: Micro102 on July 13, 2016, 05:12:40 pm
Post by: umiman on July 13, 2016, 05:25:28 pm
Spreading your melee dwarves across the entire underpath seems like a good way to let the enemy breach your defense.Ironbreakers are pretty incredible at defending a charge. Even Longbeards are pretty amazing too. I normally stretch them out to just two ranks as that seems to be enough to defend against everything except Chaos Chariots.
The ideal Dwarven defensive line is usually staggered too.
So you purposely leave holes in your lines for your ranged troops to fire through. The AI doesn't charge through that hole if they get caught on the edge of something. So you basically just have to watch for heroes or monsters as those guys will happily run through the gaps.
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^ That doesn't really work in MP though.
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Trailer's out boyz!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds1ZsQAISeM
According to Reddit, it'll come with two free-LC in the form of Amber magic and an Amber Mage hero.
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2016, 06:19:47 pm
Post by: Micro102 on July 13, 2016, 06:24:29 pm
Post by: umiman on July 13, 2016, 06:42:01 pm
Has anyone tried to kill heros with cannons? I hesitate as I don't want to waste all my cannon shots on attempting to kill a unit.Doesn't really work unless they're large sized (mounted / Kholek). They just get bounced around without much damage.
They go down very fast to guns though. Crossbows / bows work too, to a degree.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 13, 2016, 09:47:27 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2016, 09:48:13 pm
I have used artillery to target heroes. They're a bit too inaccurate but when there's no other targets. I find magic missile spells like fireballs much more effective at taking down enemy heroes and lords.Fliers are also great for lord-sniping, but it's only really viable for the VCs.
Post by: Teneb on July 14, 2016, 11:01:16 am
They look pretty interesting, actually. They're hordes, like WoC. Unlike WoC, they don't get attrition for standing too close together. They start on Estalia in the Grand Campaign and use Chaos Corruption. They got a renamed (bestial rage) fightyness meter like the greenskins, complete with Waaagh! (brayherd) army. They get unique army stances. Ambush is their default one and allows not only for ambushing on the go, but also moving mostly unseen. Hidden encampment is pretty much like the WoC one, but also stealthed. Beast-paths is their version of the underway complete with unique battle map. Finally they get raiding stance like everyone else.
When they capture a settlement, they get two unique options: Raze and Loot, or Raze and Defile. First razes the settlement and gives you loot. Second also razes, but instead gives you population and erects a "blasphemous monument" that will generate a lot corruption for the area. They periodically get an event on top of all that where they can pick a bonus in exchange for specific prices.
Lords are Khazrak the One Eyed, that has two quests and the global abilities of +10% raiding income and +5 leadership vs humans, or Malagor the Dark Omen, with a single quest, but access to the beastmen-unique Lore of the Wild and global passives of +1 Bray Shaman capacity and +5% movement range.
Their hero options are either the melee-specialist Gorebull or the Bray-Shaman that can use Lores of Death, Beasts, and Wild. Lore of the Wild's final spell summons a Cygor, which sounds insane.
The DLC will also feature a mini-campaign about Khazrak vs Boris Toddbringer
Spoiler: Abilities (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Roster (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on July 14, 2016, 11:17:24 am
Could be counterproductive if you like to keep a 20-stack.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 14, 2016, 11:28:02 am
Malagor the Dark Omen is a second legendary lord and apparently starts in the swamps of madness in the Badlands. They have more ranged then I thought with Ungor Raiders armed with bows.
I would assume the "blasphemous monument" is a herdstone. There's also some interesting abilities for the centigors that give them a leadership bonus and vigour/stamina buff until they start losing moral. The Cygor also increases miscasts for enemy mages around it.
The list is missing a few units; Ghorgon, Jabberslythe and Harpies as well as tuskgor chariots I believe.
The trailer looks funny with the beastmen putting empty helmets on display. Pretty sure they should have heads in them.
There will also be a free unit added in a coming update of the Amber Mage as well who uses the lore of beasts.
Post by: Teneb on July 14, 2016, 11:35:12 am
The trailer looks funny with the beastmen putting empty helmets on display. Pretty sure they should have heads in them.Likely the same reason there's no blood in the trailer: teen rating.
Post by: Grim Portent on July 14, 2016, 11:49:50 am
Post by: umiman on July 14, 2016, 12:11:23 pm
So their mages can summon free artillery...?
Could be counterproductive if you like to keep a 20-stack.
You can summon units no problem so long as you don't have 40 allied units on the map. They just go away after the battle. Or stick around if you have free slots.
Post by: sambojin on July 14, 2016, 05:12:49 pm
Is amber magic confirmed, or just Lore of Beasts for beastmen? They're sort of the same, but having a squishy little human mage going into berko-mode occasionally might be fun.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on July 14, 2016, 09:00:06 pm
Looks like a pretty good DLC. And if they can get beastmen right, they can do the same for woodies/dryads. I wonder how "skirmishy" they'll be in comparison to other troops? Ungors with bows might not be great, but chaos and vamps can weep at your "superior battlefield technology" of both mooks, and mooks with bows.
Is amber magic confirmed, or just Lore of Beasts for beastmen? They're sort of the same, but having a squishy little human mage going into berko-mode occasionally might be fun.
Lore of beasts and Amber Wizards are coming up as well. Beastmen are getting their unique Lore of the Wild along with Lore of the Beasts and lore of Death on their Bray-Shamans.
Post by: timferius on July 15, 2016, 09:34:53 am
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 09:50:28 am
skavenLook, the notion that a race of malevolent ratmen live beneath our cities is preposterous. It's just a ploy by Marienburg merchants to drive up cheese prices.
Post by: Neonivek on July 15, 2016, 09:53:20 am
skavenLook, the notion that a race of malevolent ratmen live beneath our cities is preposterous. It's just a ploy by Marienburg merchants to drive up cheese prices.
In all fairness it kind of is outright freeken ridiculous... Especially the more they extrapolate on it and show.
It is why my theory is that the sewers are actually the ruins of a much larger more advanced civilization that all cities are built ontop of.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 15, 2016, 12:23:07 pm
Has anyone tried to kill heros with cannons? I hesitate as I don't want to waste all my cannon shots on attempting to kill a unit.Doesn't really work unless they're large sized (mounted / Kholek). They just get bounced around without much damage.
They go down very fast to guns though. Crossbows / bows work too, to a degree.
If your artillery is high-ranked enough, they'll generally be able to do it if you have 3-4 and sufficient time. A few rank 9 hellcannons can reliably kill an enemy lord at range (especially when the knockback gives them more time to keep hitting).
Post by: umiman on July 15, 2016, 12:38:47 pm
Hellcannons are a bit different from all the other artillery (read: significantly better).Has anyone tried to kill heros with cannons? I hesitate as I don't want to waste all my cannon shots on attempting to kill a unit.Doesn't really work unless they're large sized (mounted / Kholek). They just get bounced around without much damage.
They go down very fast to guns though. Crossbows / bows work too, to a degree.
If your artillery is high-ranked enough, they'll generally be able to do it if you have 3-4 and sufficient time. A few rank 9 hellcannons can reliably kill an enemy lord at range (especially when the knockback gives them more time to keep hitting).
They're more like flame cannons with extreme range, huge armour penetration, massive splash damage, and limited tracking ability, and unbreakable, which is why they're insanely strong.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 15, 2016, 12:43:23 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 12:52:38 pm
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 15, 2016, 01:05:23 pm
Hellcannons are a bit different from all the other artillery (read: significantly better).Has anyone tried to kill heros with cannons? I hesitate as I don't want to waste all my cannon shots on attempting to kill a unit.Doesn't really work unless they're large sized (mounted / Kholek). They just get bounced around without much damage.
They go down very fast to guns though. Crossbows / bows work too, to a degree.
If your artillery is high-ranked enough, they'll generally be able to do it if you have 3-4 and sufficient time. A few rank 9 hellcannons can reliably kill an enemy lord at range (especially when the knockback gives them more time to keep hitting).
They're more like flame cannons with extreme range, huge armour penetration, massive splash damage, and limited tracking ability, and unbreakable, which is why they're insanely strong.
I bet you could do it with dwarven artillery as well. I never bothered abusing mount gunbad for high level artillery earlyish, but I wonder if maybe it would be doable with dwarves. Probably not human or orc though?
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 01:15:16 pm
Post by: Hetairos on July 15, 2016, 01:20:22 pm
skavenLook, the notion that a race of malevolent ratmen live beneath our cities is preposterous. It's just a ploy by Marienburg merchants to drive up cheese prices.
In all fairness it kind of is outright freeken ridiculous... Especially the more they extrapolate on it and show.
It is why my theory is that the sewers are actually the ruins of a much larger more advanced civilization that all cities are built ontop of.
And you might be right, considering many human cities are built on top of elven ruins after all.
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:10:36 pm
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 15, 2016, 03:20:17 pm
Finally won as Chaos. After chasing the Empire all the way back to Kislev, Bretonnia went down fast and smoothly. Only ever had 1 stack, led by Sigvald, and never went into Norsca (which led to the Varg becoming the second strongest faction, after the stunties). Took exactly 200 turns too.
this was my experience too except with Skaeling. They pretty much won the game for me, while I just kind of puttered about with sigvald.
Post by: Teneb on July 15, 2016, 03:21:58 pm
Oh, no. The Varg just chilled in norsca for the whole game for me. I had to do the heavy lifting. Also Ostermark took out the VCs.Finally won as Chaos. After chasing the Empire all the way back to Kislev, Bretonnia went down fast and smoothly. Only ever had 1 stack, led by Sigvald, and never went into Norsca (which led to the Varg becoming the second strongest faction, after the stunties). Took exactly 200 turns too.
this was my experience too except with Skaeling. They pretty much won the game for me, while I just kind of puttered about with sigvald.
Post by: umiman on July 15, 2016, 04:05:39 pm
Quote
If you don’t own Call of the Beastmen, do they still appear on the Grand Campaign Map?
Yes. As part of the update, Beastmen will be added as an AI race on the Grand Campaign. So even if you don’t buy the DLC, your Campaign game will be refreshed with a new formidable threat to contend with.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/180618/quick-q-a-call-of-the-beastmen/p1?new=1
Niiiiiice.... Wasn't planning to buy it so I'm happy I'll at least be able to fight them.
Post by: Tack on July 15, 2016, 04:07:24 pm
But if you successfully DO shake them up, they can basically win the entire map for you. It actually makes it hard to meet the raze/loot quota.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 15, 2016, 04:21:10 pm
But if you successfully DO shake them up, they can basically win the entire map for you. It actually makes it hard to meet the raze/loot quota.
yeah i actually attacked my own skaeling allies for the final raze. didn't want to bother walking to tilea or something.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 15, 2016, 08:20:24 pm
Post by: Micro102 on July 16, 2016, 01:58:28 am
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 16, 2016, 03:47:42 am
Is it normal for the chaos horde to just sit there in the middle of the map? I would think it would wander around the map slaughtering all it could.
They should be quite aggressive, razing everything to the ground. They usually get bogged down near the center though, due to both human and vampire resistance.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 16, 2016, 04:07:12 am
It's like; recruiting new units requires a turn of sitting in the one spot, something the A.I. might not do if there is an army stronger then itself nearby and if the army is weaker chances are the player themselves are trying to defeat them.
Maybe if when the Chaos forces encamped they gained a good defencible battle map situation with lava moats or something. Beastmen are going to have an ambush stance encamp so they should recruit more easily. Or chaos could have recruitment after they sack a city or defeat an army, kind of like vampire counts raising units but tied to the recruitment buildings the horde has built.
I do certainly tend to see more armies of a single large nordic faction than the Chaos Warriors.
Post by: Teneb on July 16, 2016, 05:33:51 am
Post by: Tack on July 16, 2016, 06:29:23 am
Post by: Micro102 on July 16, 2016, 03:51:58 pm
I've seen a Chaos stack led by Kholek actually pull back to recruit in my VC run. Also had to defeat Archaon thrice, each time he had a full stack which means they do recruit. Sounds like your Chaos got overwhelmed and had nowhere to pull back to.
It's odd because they stopped in the middle of what was vampire land. Everything around it was wiped out. Their settlement and another army had a full bar each. Yet dozens of turns later the vampires have repopulated the razed lands and chaos is just sitting there next to them.
Post by: Teneb on July 17, 2016, 09:41:50 pm
Spoiler: Let them eat cake! Lots of it! (click to show/hide)
Damn it, I wish modders could import models into the game so we could have halfling soldiers.
Post by: Grim Portent on July 18, 2016, 07:13:02 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 18, 2016, 07:22:00 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 18, 2016, 08:49:32 am
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 18, 2016, 09:00:14 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on July 18, 2016, 10:11:55 am
Yes, but their better archers at least. In Blood Bowl they rely on weight of numbers even more than a Skaven team, but even then they're backed up by Treents.
They have some good trackers and skirmishers as well, not to mention their cooks can prepare meals mighty enough that people are willing to die for it (or bribe the nearest ogre tribe)
They have some of the best names for their mercenaries though.
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lumpin_Croop%27s_Fighting_Cocks
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2016, 10:37:41 am
Post by: Grim Portent on July 18, 2016, 02:00:17 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on July 18, 2016, 02:56:39 pm
I imagine most armies in the game would eat halflings for breakfast. Sometimes literally as well as figuratively. :P
I really should point out that the halflings are deceptively weak, the Moot is smack dab on the border of Sylvania, they deal with vampires, zombies, and skeletons on a rather daily basis and actually tend towards their strengths. The problem with halflings is that most of them tend towards laziness.
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2016, 02:58:47 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 18, 2016, 09:41:50 pm
I wonder what would have happened if Ogres ad Halflings had teamed up together. Uh, after the halfings managed to convince the Ogres that they're more useful alive than as dinner.
Post by: Grim Portent on July 19, 2016, 05:22:07 am
Post by: debvon on July 19, 2016, 05:29:03 am
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 10:55:40 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 19, 2016, 12:07:00 pm
The phases of Morrsleib is interesting as well. I would guess it's not guaranteed that something good will happen and the chaos gods will sometimes just be angry because of reasons.
Post by: Tack on July 19, 2016, 03:36:56 pm
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 19, 2016, 03:44:33 pm
Oh tell me the beast men tree isn't a copy pasted woc tree.
It's mostly original, but not that many unique units and a duplicate or two from WoC.
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2016, 03:50:05 pm
Specifically, the duplicates are: both flavours of chaos hound, the chaos spawn, and the chaos giant. Everything else is new. Tech tree is interesting, in that the more you research, the more research speed penalties you accumulate. You can counteract this by researching specific techs that only take 1 turn, but also cost 5000, 10000, 15000, and so on.Oh tell me the beast men tree isn't a copy pasted woc tree.It's mostly original, but not that many unique units and a duplicate or two from WoC.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 20, 2016, 01:59:59 am
I mean, it makes sense that the research tree is a bit usual since research isn't something Beastmen would really do.
I'm a bit suprised that the Beastmen can make battering rams and siege towers. I would think they'd have to make do with using minotaurs to knock down gates and Cygors to bring down walls.
The campaign map in the gameplay video looked darker to me. Or the grass in the Bretonnia area looks different from how it is in game.
Post by: Grim Portent on July 20, 2016, 04:52:28 am
I'm a bit suprised that the Beastmen can make battering rams and siege towers. I would think they'd have to make do with using minotaurs to knock down gates and Cygors to bring down walls.
Neither are hugely complex things to make, and they can make chariots already so they can clearly make wheels and tie/nail bits of wood together.
It would kind of mess up the Beastmen's raiding lifestyle if the average gor tribe had to go fetch a minotaur to lay siege to even the smallest of walled settlements.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 20, 2016, 09:53:16 am
Post by: Micro102 on July 20, 2016, 10:27:03 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 20, 2016, 10:41:53 am
As a bestial race, I would have guessed there'd be a lower-level unit that could bring down gates. Miners as Dwarves was a nice treat.Or maybe just climb over walls, open gates from within, etc
Post by: Teneb on July 20, 2016, 10:45:15 am
Post by: Tack on July 20, 2016, 10:53:33 am
Post by: ZeroGravitas on July 20, 2016, 11:03:33 am
It's kind of a shame we can't just assault the walls with nothing but ladders. Always need to have artillery or siege engines.
sometimes you can use heroes to make breaches, but in my experience it's rarely worth the money
Post by: Micro102 on July 20, 2016, 11:15:29 am
Post by: umiman on July 20, 2016, 11:17:45 am
that they resort to what seems to be a flaming arrow to shoot at towers and units...?
I don't think the Dwarves have a single unit that shoots arrows. Even their towers shoot beer barrels.
Post by: Teneb on July 20, 2016, 11:36:02 am
God I hate how unrealistic the sieges are.You mean unrealistic in a setting where we have goblins wearing leather wings as one of the most potent types of artillery, where a fabulous prince can solo an entire army, where if you are near the poles the land under you can suddenly decide to launch itself to orbit and take you with it?
Post by: Tack on July 20, 2016, 04:13:08 pm
I think that's 3rd level gates. 2nd level is canons, 1st level is something silly, default is fire arrows.that they resort to what seems to be a flaming arrow to shoot at towers and units...?
I don't think the Dwarves have a single unit that shoots arrows. Even their towers shoot beer barrels.
Post by: Micro102 on July 20, 2016, 11:30:12 pm
God I hate how unrealistic the sieges are.You mean unrealistic in a setting where we have goblins wearing leather wings as one of the most potent types of artillery, where a fabulous prince can solo an entire army, where if you are near the poles the land under you can suddenly decide to launch itself to orbit and take you with it?
That's like saying plot holes are ok in a fiction movie because other parts of it don't happen in the real world.
I said fire arrows because I recall flaming objects coming out of the towers, but my real point is, no way to destroy towers before they reach the walls. You might be able to destroy one if you can focus two turrets on it, but it really ruins sieges for me, knowing that the walls barely matter with siege towers. I can't leave the gates and sally forth, archers seem to be worse on the walls than on the ground, and it is incredibly hard if not impossible to get archers to turn horizontally on a wall and shoot at other units on a wall. I've seen the AI do it but I can't.I think that's 3rd level gates. 2nd level is canons, 1st level is something silly, default is fire arrows.that they resort to what seems to be a flaming arrow to shoot at towers and units...?
I don't think the Dwarves have a single unit that shoots arrows. Even their towers shoot beer barrels.
Post by: Neonivek on July 20, 2016, 11:38:11 pm
That's like saying plot holes are ok in a fiction movie because other parts of it don't happen in the real world.
SHHH! don't mention plotholes next to Total War: Warhammer... It makes it overly sensitive.
It cares deeply about its plot holes.
Post by: Antioch on July 21, 2016, 05:48:45 am
You even need to pay bloody 2.5 eu for having blood effects.
Post by: Micro102 on July 21, 2016, 06:21:34 am
I am still interesting in this game, but still being 60 eu 2 months after launch and having to pay another 7.5 eu for a race cut from release for no other reason but making more money AND having to pay 17.5 eu for the addition of a single extra race is just stupid.
You even need to pay bloody 2.5 eu for having blood effects.
I got mine free for buying an AMD R9 390 :P
Post by: Criptfeind on July 21, 2016, 08:19:51 am
I said fire arrows because I recall flaming objects coming out of the towers, but my real point is, no way to destroy towers before they reach the walls. You might be able to destroy one if you can focus two turrets on it, but it really ruins sieges for me, knowing that the walls barely matter with siege towers. I can't leave the gates and sally forth, archers seem to be worse on the walls than on the ground, and it is incredibly hard if not impossible to get archers to turn horizontally on a wall and shoot at other units on a wall. I've seen the AI do it but I can't.
I think walls and towers are very important when fighting against the AI at least. The AI being dumbz means that I often find that my archers can rack up massive kill numbers as they mill about and try to deal with my calvary, which is another thing, I often find Sallying fourth worth it, at least in certain situations (trading a unit of knights for a hellcannon? Yes plz.) There was a story someone (I think umiman?) put up here before about winning a battle via sallying fourth with a uncountable horde of zombies, he had no way to kill the enemy army, but the zombies held them back long enough for the towers to bring about victory. As for the walls themselves, the ability to funnel and concentrate enemies into certain "killing fields" is something I've found very useful.
I'm not sure how good walls are in pvp, I imagine somewhat useful although less so against an opponent who can actually make okay plans and decisions, but thus far all my pvp with walls have been somewhat atypical (in fact, I've only had two such battles if I recall correctly, one where it was vampire v vampire and my flying circus swept the walls before the rest of my army got to them, and one where it was orc vs dwarf, and my orcs had an absolutely overwhelming numbers advantage so I ended up ignoring his dudes and just swarming over the wall and onto the victory point... It was sorta funny, his hammerers were easily getting a 30 to 1 kill ratio, but they just didn't matter in the long run ;.;) Edit: Actually I recall another battle I had, probably blocked it out cuz I lost. it was fairly evenish I think, I think the walls really helped the enemy win. Idk, I think they are okay.
I do agree that the way positioning on the wall works is really really annoying. I was excited when I saw how big the walls were and thought that there would be real maneuvering and such on them... Not how it currently works, sadly.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 21, 2016, 09:30:55 am
Some things to note is the Lore of the Wilds can summon a Cygor and Lore of Beasts can summon a Manticore. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMOqfsBzqLU)
Also, while I was watching the video I thought it was odd that the map wasn't really to the Beastmen's advantage (Crossing the map while empire sit still with artillary).
"Hey so just a bit of clarification, this is a subterranean battle, that's why it's a linear subterranean fight, similar to other subterranean battles. An ambush battle using the beast-path is different to this. During an ambush, troops will be lined up along side the enemy who are marching in a particular direction. They start very close to the enemy, about 150 meters away I'd say, giving them little time to react. There's multiple ambush battle maps in the beast-paths and multiple linear subterranean maps. - Darren"
I don't really know how the ambush battles and subterranean battles would happen with the stance. Maybe if you're in ambush stance you get one set of maps and if you're using the Beast Path stance you get these subterranean battle maps?
Post by: nenjin on July 21, 2016, 10:25:44 am
I am still interesting in this game, but still being 60 eu 2 months after launch and having to pay another 7.5 eu for a race cut from release for no other reason but making more money AND having to pay 17.5 eu for the addition of a single extra race is just stupid.
You even need to pay bloody 2.5 eu for having blood effects.
I know the feels. I'm going to wait it out until the Winter Sale, at the least I might get a package deal on the DLC. Because there's no way I'm dropping $80+ USD on the whole thing.
Post by: Tack on July 21, 2016, 10:55:23 am
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2016, 10:57:44 am
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2016, 12:00:03 pm
I'm not buying the DLC either. Why would I want to play as a bunch of mooks anyway? Already have the Empire for that.I think the real question is why would you play as chaos furries when you can play as Sigvald instead.
Post by: Tack on July 21, 2016, 12:33:11 pm
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2016, 01:15:20 pm
Post by: pisskop on July 21, 2016, 01:54:54 pm
Im still waiting for the full game to come out, but ya'll think itll be okay with some healthy mods to make it not arcade battle?
Post by: Tack on July 21, 2016, 02:31:14 pm
A game which has 5x re-playability, to me is a goldmine.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 21, 2016, 03:14:49 pm
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2016, 03:41:51 pm
I also agree it's really expensive but I will echo that i definitely got my money's worth
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2016, 04:21:02 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 21, 2016, 09:55:32 pm
I hope they add in any units that are missing at later dates, I believe they plan to add naval battles in at some future point, and some more battle maps would not go amiss.
I'm actually a little confused on that last part. The game doesn't have a random map generator like Medieval 2 where the map reflects broadly where the battle is taking place on the campaign map does it? One battle map, the forest with a lane between two copses on a downward slope, I get quite frequently.
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2016, 10:37:08 pm
Now it's back to the old style where every... "area" has a map. It would help if more of the maps were more interesting other than just basically flat lands with some minor humps. Currently there are only a miniscule handful of interesting, memorable maps.
By the way, some other problems with the maps include:
1. No wall-less settlement battles.
2. No river crossings, bridges, etc.
3. No beaches, oceans, or stuff like that
Post by: Teneb on July 21, 2016, 10:48:15 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 21, 2016, 11:57:54 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 22, 2016, 01:19:42 pm
Rather it is called inconsistency. The Dwarves are not built as if they were a part of their own setting.
Post by: Tack on July 22, 2016, 02:04:18 pm
Have you re-re-bought the game yet?
Well I personally didn't like that in all of the previous games you could go barricade yourself in the town centre of a wall-less settlement and your enemy had to path around all of the buildings to get to you.No wall-less settlement battles.I'm willing to forgive it because we get awesome settlements in the background instead weird tiny ones.
A fix I always wanted was the ability for soldiers to torch every house on their way in- as real marauders would.
Post by: Neonivek on July 22, 2016, 03:46:49 pm
I like the dwarves, and their fire arrows of doom. The idea of having ballistae as a cost-efficient alternative to canons works, in my mind.
Have you re-re-bought the game yet?
No the DLC whoring has turned me off the game for good.
Which wouldn't be so bad if I felt like it was expanding the content... But right now I get the distinct impression that it is filling in content slots.
Post by: Tack on July 22, 2016, 03:57:53 pm
But, considering how back then they were doing 200 maps to a region and now are not, I'm less enthused.
But to complain about DLC-whoring now is precious, considering that SEGA's DLC policy is baseline-so-fucking-crazy that this game actually has less than the standard. Significantly less, depending on how expensive the standalones end up being. From the days of Rome I they've had a policy of trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of their engine before needing to make a new one.
Post by: Neonivek on July 22, 2016, 11:23:43 pm
But to complain about DLC-whoring now is precious. From the days of Rome I they've had a policy of trying to squeeze as much money as possible out of their engine before needing to make a new one.
A problem is still a problem.
In fact can you even explain why it is a bad attitude to not want a game because they are not only releasing a lot of overpriced DLC... but also leaving huge gaps and absences in the base game in order to have the DLC slot in even at the expense of the overall experience?
In fact can you even explain why "I", someone who likes a complete game... should even buy this if I already find it very expensive before adding in DLC?
Edit: Deleted some stuff. Tack refers to it, but frankly I don't quite like the way I written it.
Post by: Tack on July 23, 2016, 01:33:30 am
If you went back in time and forced them not to lean on DLC, the company likely wouldn't exist today.
Edit: Here's a link (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/164869/total-war-warhammer-dev-blog-chaos-warriors-pre-orders-and-dlc) to CA people explaining why they did DLC
That being said, I enjoyed Rome II at launch, so I'm pretty sure I am the worst variety of fanboy.
Post by: Neonivek on July 23, 2016, 02:42:27 am
Quote
That being said, I enjoyed Rome II at launch, so I'm pretty sure I am the worst variety of fanboy.
I still bought The Sims 4 and its first expansion even though I knew it was a terrible idea... >_<... though to admit the suckiness of the game crushed me in the end.
So I am not that much better with things I am passionate about.
Post by: sambojin on July 23, 2016, 04:23:50 pm
I don't post that much :P you called me out. (yes I deleted a large post... frankly... no one needs to read it)QuoteThat being said, I enjoyed Rome II at launch, so I'm pretty sure I am the worst variety of fanboy.
I still bought The Sims 4 and its first expansion even though I knew it was a terrible idea... >_<... though to admit the suckiness of the game crushed me in the end.
So I am not that much better with things I am passionate about.
I will remember this post the next time you complain about some aspect of, well, anything.
Post by: Tack on July 23, 2016, 04:28:02 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 23, 2016, 10:34:38 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 26, 2016, 10:37:58 am
(http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_2#Total_War:_WARHAMMER_.E2.80.93_Update_2)
Some things of note in the list:
Units with siege attacker trait will allow that army to attack a walled city without having to build siege equipment. So, for example, you can use minotaurs to batter down gates rather than build a battering ram.
Four new custom and multiplayer maps, as well as Sarthorael the Everwatcher (Lord of Change) available as choosable lord for custom battles.
Lords and Heroes in custom and multiplayer battles can now have their skills, spells and items modified before a battle. Point costs will go up alongside the things added. This is very nice for specific army builds.
Sigvald will no longer bleed when the Blood Effects are enabled. An extremely important change. Sigvalds splendor shall survive swirling sanguinary soirées stupendously smear shorn.
Fixed a bug where enemy units would remain hidden until around 10m away. Very good, this was something I had come across a few times.
Fixed a bug where explosion damage was not being applied to all entities. This might help some spells and artillary which seemed a bit underwhelming.
Unit markers in battle (e.g. when dragging formations) are now visible on top of passable shallow water.
Post by: Tack on July 26, 2016, 05:20:44 pm
Chosen are even better now.
Post by: Vendayn on July 26, 2016, 09:48:39 pm
But if I complain about Crusader Kings 2 and Europa Universalis 4 DLC then I get hated on? They have far worse DLC whoring than Total War ever has.
That happens on Steam, Reddit and facebook. A bunch of people who hate Total War DLC practices but yell and troll me if I complain about Ck2 and EU4 dlc lol
Post by: Tack on July 26, 2016, 09:54:43 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 26, 2016, 10:46:19 pm
Post by: umiman on July 26, 2016, 10:48:07 pm
Post by: Neonivek on July 27, 2016, 12:40:26 am
Koei makes the same games over and over and over again with little or no actual change... BUT their fanbase are primarily people who do not want their games to change at all.
Crusader Kings 2 is a huge DLC Whore but it is marketed almost exclusively towards people who want to throw their wallets at the game until their bank accounts hemorrhage to death.
As well Crusader Kings 2 didn't come out with huge gaps and emptiness for future expansions to slot themselves into... sort of...
Post by: Mech#4 on July 27, 2016, 01:11:54 am
Post by: umiman on July 27, 2016, 01:51:53 am
However, you can summon zombies until you use up all 40 of the unit slots.
I can understand that the monsters not remaining at the end of the battle being a balance thing... but why exactly can't I summon a Manticore at the start if I wanted? You might argue it's not fair that the Amber gets to be two units for the price of one... but there's not really THAT much of a difference between me summoning a Manticore at the start and me summoning a Manticore somewhere in the middle or end of the battle. And I think in that video he couldn't even do that if he wanted to as it cost too much winds of magic (I might be misremembering this part).
Sure, if I was allowed to summon it whenever you'd have to be on guard of my Manticore throughout the battle, but is it really that different from being on guard of the Amber Wizard for the entire fight to begin with? And it's also not like you can summon lots of them if you could do it straight from the start... as the cap is one.
I just find it a bit gamey and jarring that we're limited like that.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 27, 2016, 02:11:12 am
Addition: I did just check in a custom battle. You cannot summon more zombies/skeletons if your army is at the full size of 20 units. If you have a supporting army you can have up to 40 units but again, you can't summon more units until you have less than 20. If the extra army is A.I. controlled than I would assume you can summon more units if your army numbers drop below 20.
If you start off with 20 units, but lose some during combat, than you can cast the spell.
I do not know if the Cygor and manticore remain in your army after the battle is over. The Cygor may because it's a recruitable unit for the Beastmen (the only faction that can use the Lore of the Wilds) but the manticore isn't a recruitable unit for the Empire or Beastmen so it might not remain.
The summon manticore spell is kind of changed from the tabletop where it's supposed to transform the caster into various monsterous creatures (Manticore, Dragon, Hydra etc) but considering that would require a large amount of modelling and animation for a single spell I can accept the change.
Post by: umiman on July 27, 2016, 02:32:01 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on July 27, 2016, 02:40:08 am
20 zombies. Swarm the walls. Swarm the point. Die in droves.
More casualties means a better raise dead pool.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 27, 2016, 02:52:33 am
I didn't keep the new units after battle though. The tooltip for the spell does state you can't use it if "army is full" so perhaps it's an oversight? They are just zombies/skeletons though and the spell only has two casts each battle so unless you fielded a large number of necromancers and had a large magic pool you wouldn't be able to get more than maybe ~5 extra units.
Post by: umiman on July 27, 2016, 02:58:04 am
@umiman: Now this is odd. I tried a custom battle as I said and I wasn't able to summon more units since I had an army of 20. However, trying a campaign map battle I could summon two more zombie units even though my army was at 20.It's probably limited in customs as people with garbage tier computers would have trouble due to the large amount of units if you had to fight them in multiplayer. You know, those guys that have to disable large armies.
I didn't keep the new units after battle though. The tooltip for the spell does state you can't use it if "army is full" so perhaps it's an oversight? They are just zombies/skeletons though and the spell only has two casts each battle so unless you fielded a large number of necromancers and had a large magic pool you wouldn't be able to get more than maybe ~5 extra units.
If you get mods for spells that remove the unit cap for zombies, you can summon an extra 20 zombies in campaign. The reason I was so confident and familiar with this ability to summon more than your unit cap of zombies is because my predominant VC tactic is having 22 units. I used those extra zombies to the limit. Frigging used them for everything.
But in all the previews for the incoming DLC, they specifically state you can't summon more monsters if you have 20, which is what I find very odd. Maybe they're just referencing custom battles and MP as well.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 27, 2016, 03:05:15 am
I would think it's limited in multiplayer to prevent over use, though the next patch is going to limit heroes to 4 in multiplayer so even then you would only be able to summon 8 more zombies if you had the magic to use all casts.
Post by: umiman on July 27, 2016, 03:16:51 am
I think I have a post on here where I flooded a besieging orc army with zombies.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 27, 2016, 03:23:58 am
Post by: Tack on July 27, 2016, 04:34:46 am
It's rather glorious.
Post by: Teneb on July 28, 2016, 11:23:47 am
Post by: Criptfeind on July 28, 2016, 11:39:10 am
I've not played around with the high tier units yet, but I do sorta enjoy the fast run around and smash shit up on the battlefield that the small units have. Vanguard most of your army next to the starting one, and then start shooting at them and disrupting their formation as you wait for everyone else to catch up. I tried to break into minotaurs because they seemed cool but that destroyed my 'economy'.
I am disappointed that the horde growth LL skill is further up the tree, so instead of a 4 point thing it's a 9 point thing. I'm not sure if it's as completely necessary as it is for Chaos, you do get a lot of random events that can sometimes give growth, and it's easier to burn shit down for growth... I got it anyway and my money can't keep up with the growth. So I'm not sure. If it does turn out to be needed I'll be sad though, as putting 1/3 of your skill points into the blue skills isn't my idea of fun... Although it'll probably just install some more skill points mods again.
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 28, 2016, 06:23:14 pm
Post by: Tack on July 28, 2016, 06:36:09 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on July 28, 2016, 09:03:24 pm
I've completely cleared the mini campaign, but didn't get the ultimate victory because I needed to confederate with two factions. That sucked.
Yeah, I noticed that was a requirement halfway though and panicked for a moment because it seemed like whenever a tribe popped it it would be instantly squashed. Luckily there was still two surviving tribes barely holding on int the corners of the map, so I managed to snag those (and then I disbanded them pretty much instantly heh heh. Rip.)
Interesting thing that confederating as beastmen gives you a buff instead of a debuff, a substantial one as well.
Post by: Tack on July 28, 2016, 10:26:26 pm
Does minicamapign on hard count as campaign on hard?Answer: There's separate achievements for both.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 29, 2016, 09:15:25 am
I'm also enjoying little things that have been added to the game along with the update. The northern empire area has a new, beast path like channel through the forests and I feel like more of the forests are accessable then before.
Also, since it was nearby I went and checked whether the Beastmen have a unique ship model. They certainly do.
Post by: Teneb on July 29, 2016, 03:34:38 pm
EDIT: Okay, this is great: when you defeat Todbringer, there is a little event about Khazrak taking out his eye. After that, Todbringer's model will be using an eyepatch.
Post by: Criptfeind on July 29, 2016, 04:19:28 pm
Post by: Tack on July 29, 2016, 04:32:19 pm
A few confederations later and I had 20 stack Ungor armies perched in the woods near every city, making delicious bank.
Which is basically the best economy I've ever had as a horde army.
Post by: thvaz on August 01, 2016, 08:24:19 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 01, 2016, 08:43:56 am
I saw one person mention it might be because they spend their turns raiding over recuperating losses.
Post by: Tack on August 02, 2016, 03:37:19 am
Which, apparently, caused them all to turn hostile.
I cannot attack them, but they're nixxing all of my weakened armies, and every new one is another threat.
What has just happened.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 02, 2016, 04:04:20 am
Post by: Tack on August 02, 2016, 06:19:41 am
I'd like to consider it a little bit more difficulty on top of the VH.
Edit: Insult to injury, I finished the mini-campaign and didn't get the VH/L achievement for some reason, nor did I get the cutscene of todbringer losing his eye.
Post by: ATHATH on August 06, 2016, 10:03:49 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 06, 2016, 10:36:13 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 07, 2016, 09:30:56 am
I don't know how reliable they are to spawn each game but I've seen a Beastmen herd spawn to the west of Averheim. I think another spawns closer to Talabheim and Middenheim.There's also a mod to make them spawn more frequently, if you feel like it's too rare.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2016, 05:48:34 am
A wiki article goes into some more depth with screenshots showing two of the units in the pack being the "Royal Altdorf Gryphites" and the "Hammer of the Witches", being a demi-gryp knight and artillary unit respectively. It also mentions how these regiments of renown will be recruitable through a mercenary recruit system for lords with enough levels during a campaign as well as them being usable during custom battles. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Regiments_of_Renown)
Post by: Teneb on August 11, 2016, 08:09:21 am
Also the "grim" lord is probably Volkmar the Grim, the leader of the Sigmarite faith.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2016, 08:23:20 am
I've looked through the book and one nice thing is that, while the models might not be hugely different from the base ones, they'll still be more different than the featured models from Games Workshop where most of the photos are of stock models. It mentions things like units of flaggalents, Knights of the Blazing Sun as well as a necromancer called Ghorst on a corpse cart.
If one of the legendary lords is Volkmar, he might have a unique mount of the war altar of Sigmar which would be neat.
I was also thinking on the mercenary mechanic being added alongside this. It could be used so the Empire can hire giants into their army as well as Beastmen units for Warriors of Chaos or Empire swordsmen for Vampire Counts. Units that don't fit the armies base unit list but are mentioned as being used in the lore.
Post by: Tack on August 11, 2016, 10:01:11 am
Post by: Teneb on August 11, 2016, 10:02:58 am
So, Krell?All DLCs, free or paid, are about Krell.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2016, 11:10:39 am
Post by: Teneb on August 11, 2016, 11:21:32 am
Konrad von Carstein who isn't capable with magic enough to command undeadKonrad didn't have any problem with commanding undead, having even lead the VCs in the lore after Vlad got himself killed. Manny only took over after Konrad himself died.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 11, 2016, 11:49:22 am
Prior to becoming the leader of the von Carsteins he would murder necromancers frequently for insulting him due to his lack of magical ability.
Post by: umiman on August 11, 2016, 12:01:41 pm
So I arranged a vampire slaying party and went to go finish him off. And that was the end of the geheimnisnacht. No climatic battles over castle walls. No legendary rings of immortality. Just people backstabbing one another.
Post by: Tack on August 11, 2016, 12:10:43 pm
Is interesting though that due to bloodlines and such, the Von-carsteins have a stronger claim to the throne than Franz.
Yeah the only reason he lost was because the necromancers all got sick of his bullying and walked off, handing him the reigns to some hundred-thousand undeadsies.Konrad von Carstein who isn't capable with magic enough to command undeadKonrad didn't have any problem with commanding undead, having even lead the VCs in the lore after Vlad got himself killed. Manny only took over after Konrad himself died.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 11, 2016, 12:33:10 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2016, 09:20:40 pm
Post by: Neonivek on August 12, 2016, 06:27:26 pm
But if I can play Co-op with this it might be a improvement.
But I hear Co-op is "you both play a separate race" yet there is a mod that lets you play as the same race. Yet I can only find this for Chaos.
edit: I think I found it... and since there is a separate mod for Co-op with chaos AND a mod for doing co-op with races that hurt eachother...
*sigh*
Edit: Nevermind....
Post by: Teneb on August 12, 2016, 07:19:14 pm
Well No Man's Sky is a bustThe Legendary Lord start positions mod is a bad mod. Basically, it often sets the capital of a Lord's side as a minor settlement instead of a province capital. Azhag's is probably the worst as he is in a position that can be overwhelmed before turn 10.
But if I can play Co-op with this it might be a improvement.
But I hear Co-op is "you both play a separate race" yet there is a mod that lets you play as the same race. Yet I can only find this for Chaos.
edit: I think I found it... and since there is a separate mod for Co-op with chaos AND a mod for doing co-op with races that hurt eachother...
*sigh*
Edit: Nevermind....
For Co-op you want Dwarfs + Empire, VCs + Dwarfs, VCs + Greenskins, or Chaos + Beastmen. Or, y'know, play competitively.
Post by: Neonivek on August 12, 2016, 07:20:59 pm
Quote
For Co-op you want Dwarfs + Empire, VCs + Dwarfs, VCs + Greenskins, or Chaos + Beastmen.
Those mods are just there to stop co-op members from harming eachother indirectly.
Quote
Or, y'know, play competitively
Ok instead of a sarcastic or joking response I'll just lay it down.
I have absolutely no interest in this... AND it wouldn't be fun for me.
Co-op is pretty much the only thing that can make it fun for me.
Post by: Teneb on August 12, 2016, 07:55:40 pm
It was an actual honest suggestion, but let me say this outright: based on your various posts previously that you tried the game, multiple times, and didn't like it, I find it unlikely that coop will be enjoyable for you.QuoteFor Co-op you want Dwarfs + Empire, VCs + Dwarfs, VCs + Greenskins, or Chaos + Beastmen.
Those mods are just there to stop co-op members from harming eachother indirectly.QuoteOr, y'know, play competitively
Ok instead of a sarcastic or joking response I'll just lay it down.
I have absolutely no interest in this... AND it wouldn't be fun for me.
Co-op is pretty much the only thing that can make it fun for me.
But I'll reiterate again that the legendary lord starting position mod is crap, poorly balanced, and breaks other mods.
Post by: Neonivek on August 12, 2016, 07:57:25 pm
It is why I sighed.
Quote
It was an actual honest suggestion
Ohh I know it was. I am just saying I REALLY don't want to play this game competitively, and I wouldn't have fun with it.
Just usually I'd do a joke :P and this time I don't want any confusion.
Post by: debvon on August 15, 2016, 08:39:28 am
The AI is kind of janky, at least on hard mode, I hope they improve it
Post by: Tack on August 15, 2016, 09:33:00 am
Post by: Empty on August 15, 2016, 09:33:06 am
Holy shit dwarfs are strong. I just barely captured a stronghold using early game units (1 grudge thrower) and Grudgebearer with rally. I had to distract the AI by sending a few sacrificial dwarves up onto the ramparts, bust through the gate with miners, make a path and hold it so I could send forces through to the victory point. My dwarfs were fighting to the death because of rally and the orcs were routing constantly due to no legendary lords, but even then holding that point brought me down to roughly 15 dwarfs plus Grudgebearer. I stayed alive at the end by chasing down a bunch of arrer boyz which the AI could have just sent into me and won.
The AI is kind of janky, at least on hard mode, I hope they improve it
From all the games in the series I've always noticed the AI being "wanky". I think it's probably an afterthought for them in a game with the amount of tactical possibilities there are.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 15, 2016, 10:21:54 am
I also think the A.I. should be a bit more aggressive, I suppose. I get frustrated at the A.I. avoiding combat. Send army with backup against enemy army, enemy army retreats to a point where you can't attack with both armies again means you have to wait till next turn at which point they'll have force marched out of your reach or used the underway.
It's the idea that the A.I. is playing smart by avoiding my armies and attacking where I am weakest which is nice but having the A.I. attack only when it is sure it will win I feel leaves me with only one sided fights. I think it was mentioned in some article that a game A.I. should idealy be strategically dumb.
Example: I hold a bridge with an army. The A.I. wants to attack my city behind my army. A smart A.I. will go around the bridge, avoiding the battle and making my defence useless. A dumb A.I. will attack my army on the bridge even though it's at a disadvantage. I would find the second outcome more enjoyable because I used the terrain to my advantage and got a nice stomp-the-A.I. battle out of it. The only response to the first scenario is for my army to be in the city, which would probably mean the A.I. wouldn't attack there and they'd go off and attack another of my cities where I don't have an army.
Post by: umiman on August 15, 2016, 10:39:12 am
My current greenskins playthrough I've been annoyed at the dwarfen predilection to making armies made up of around 6 quarrelers, 2 grudgethrowers and everything else longbeards. I know they're better units than the warriors but... thematically I feel they shouldn't completely replace basic infantry with elites. I could make an army of big 'uns, black orcs and so on to counter it but that's gives me the same thematically wrong problem now on my end.1. Longbeards aren't elites. Dwarfen elites are hammerers and ironbreakers. Longbeards are middle tier infantry, despite what the description might lead you to believe.
I also think the A.I. should be a bit more aggressive, I suppose. I get frustrated at the A.I. avoiding combat. Send army with backup against enemy army, enemy army retreats to a point where you can't attack with both armies again means you have to wait till next turn at which point they'll have force marched out of your reach or used the underway.
It's the idea that the A.I. is playing smart by avoiding my armies and attacking where I am weakest which is nice but having the A.I. attack only when it is sure it will win I feel leaves me with only one sided fights. I think it was mentioned in some article that a game A.I. should idealy be strategically dumb.
Example: I hold a bridge with an army. The A.I. wants to attack my city behind my army. A smart A.I. will go around the bridge, avoiding the battle and making my defence useless. A dumb A.I. will attack my army on the bridge even though it's at a disadvantage. I would find the second outcome more enjoyable because I used the terrain to my advantage and got a nice stomp-the-A.I. battle out of it. The only response to the first scenario is for my army to be in the city, which would probably mean the A.I. wouldn't attack there and they'd go off and attack another of my cities where I don't have an army.
2. Use ambush stance. If the AI can't see you they'll walk right into you. And if they detect you at the last second, they can't get away in time. Ambush stance in general will make the AI do things you want it to do, like attack a supposedly unguarded settlement or attack a supposedly small army (aka, what ambushing means).
3. Even if you block a bridge, there's no actual bridge maps or terrain advantage. You won't get a tactical advantage for doing so.
Post by: Teneb on August 15, 2016, 11:11:43 am
3. Even if you block a bridge, there's no actual bridge maps or terrain advantage. You won't get a tactical advantage for doing so.The only advantage of holding bridges in this game is that it'll force the enemy army to either go through you or waste lot of move points crossing the river elsewhere.
Also I'm loving playing as the beastmen so far. I've completed An Eye For An Eye and it's just really fun to play as them. Also Minotaurs and Gorebulls roll into enemies when they charge.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 15, 2016, 07:49:01 pm
Longbeards in the tabletop are an upgrade to warriors. I feel though, that they shouldn't completely replace the base infantry. T'would help keep at least the appearence that the A.I. has to pay upkeep.
Beastmen are neat fun. I had a Gorebull during my game with an item called "seed of renewel" that gave it regeneration. On something already as powerful as a gorebull that was really good.
What over items have I found; Armour of Mork. In one game I found a Runefang that had a stat buff ability on use.
Post by: Criptfeind on August 15, 2016, 07:56:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 15, 2016, 07:58:44 pm
Post by: umiman on August 15, 2016, 08:00:03 pm
Well of course. With bridges I was referring to Medieval 2 more than Warhammer. You generally understand what I'm getting at though, yes? Ambushing is all well and good but that leads to an ambush fight rather than a field fight. I would like if the A.I. didn't avoid unfair battles quite so much. Though, blocking a bridge or narrow pass I've found not very useful in Warhammer as the A.I. has gone through my zone of control.I understand what you're saying, but the last thing I want is the AI being easier than it already is. I'm actually quite happy that this one actively avoids fights it can't win and you have to coerce it into doing suboptimal things.
That being said, I don't actually experience the whole "enemy runs away from me" thing a lot. See, I only play on very hard or legendary so... I'm usually outnumbered 3-to-1. Enemy don't avoid fights then.
I believe there are mods that can make the AI not run away from you though.
Post by: Antioch on August 16, 2016, 06:41:26 am
3. Even if you block a bridge, there's no actual bridge maps or terrain advantage. You won't get a tactical advantage for doing so.The only advantage of holding bridges in this game is that it'll force the enemy army to either go through you or waste lot of move points crossing the river elsewhere.
(...)
Good, abusing bridges in previous total war games was lame as hell.
Post by: Tack on August 16, 2016, 07:13:46 am
Post by: Teneb on August 19, 2016, 12:32:13 pm
Spoiler: This has been teased (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on August 19, 2016, 12:47:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 19, 2016, 12:54:13 pm
It'll probably be part of their Lords dlc. It'll also have mercenaries (regiments of renown).The map will be free, but I found a post on reddit by a CA member (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/4yhg51/so_whats_the_latest_about_tww/d6nsyi2):
Quote from: Bart_CA
Next DLC is coming soon and we haven't officially announced what it is yet, but it will be a Lords Pack featuring a couple of new legendary lords, general lords and new units. Will also include a handful of new ' Regiments of Renown' these are tweaked and unique versions of existing units that come from the Warhammer lore. You'll only be able to recruit one at a time but they will typically come with boosted stats and abilities, or maybe an unusual mix for their troop type that makes them tactically useful in an interesting way. Visually, they have minor changes to make them stand out from the base unit type and your General will need to be of a certain level before you can recruit them. What's perhaps more interesting is that modders will be able to mess with the recruitment system to add their own.
More Detail here, with some pics: http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Regiments_of_Renown
The contents of the next free-LC is yet to be spoken of (we are not fit to mention his name). There will be a patch update to the game as well of course, and amongst other things it will address the reinforcement issue people have been having.
Also apparently despite the negative review train, the Beastman DLC is considered by CA to be a best-seller.
Post by: kilakan on August 19, 2016, 01:53:45 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 19, 2016, 05:24:19 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 19, 2016, 08:28:28 pm
Post by: umiman on August 19, 2016, 08:35:00 pm
Good lord dwarves are tough. Like seriously what are they made of?Beards and stubbornness.
Post by: Tack on August 19, 2016, 08:44:43 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 19, 2016, 08:57:16 pm
I think it really is just pure obstinacy. Like they aren't ACTUALLY that tough but they just outright refuse to stop or fall down.Good lord dwarves are tough. Like seriously what are they made of?Beards and stubbornness.
I just slaughtered over 900 green skins and lost less than two dozen dwarves.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 19, 2016, 09:27:13 pm
The wolves are nice and fast for getting to the artillary quickly as well. Also units of night goblins are great for vanguard sneaking.
Also: A new map has been shown that's coming with the next FLC. Warpstone Mine. Neat crazy fantasy environments. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqOdzY4WYAErlFz.jpg:large)
Blaaah, I completely forgot you had mentioned it earlier Teneb. Teach me to do things just after getting up. The map looks neat still, I like when they make more extreme set pieces. They mentioned something about a lord alongside this but it was "unfit to mention him" or something.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 19, 2016, 09:29:51 pm
I tend to think that while dwarfs are tough, they not that much of a damage dealer. The longer a battle goes against dwarfs the more in their favour it turns. I like using 2 groups of 3 wolf riders to flank around with 1 lot of 3 the melee and the other 3 archers.unfortunately the AI isn't quite that smart. Their wolf riders ran director into masses thunderer fire and broke after a few volleys
The wolves are nice and fast for getting to the artillary quickly as well. Also units of night goblins are great for vanguard sneaking.
Post by: Teneb on August 19, 2016, 09:48:02 pm
They mentioned something about a lord alongside this but it was "unfit to mention him" or something.Taking a look at the FLC Roadmap, the background for the Legendary Lord shown there seems to be a VC city. In 8th edition, there are only 3 named lords, and it's Heinrich Kemmler, who we have, Mannfred, also have, and Vlad. Could be the man himself.
Or it could always be Krell.
Post by: Tack on August 19, 2016, 09:53:57 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 19, 2016, 09:55:35 pm
Turns out it's NagashNagash would be cool, but is too strong. Also there is no united undead army (or the other undead army for that matter (TKs are awesome)).
Post by: debvon on August 20, 2016, 03:14:29 pm
Post by: umiman on August 20, 2016, 03:16:59 pm
My dwarf army gets caught in a forced march and it spends the entire battle tired. I catch an ork army in forced march and they start fresh. Is that a bug?The enemy AI general probably put points in that skill that reduces fatigue effects.
The AI just randomly assigns skills from what I've seen.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 20, 2016, 10:22:57 pm
Post by: umiman on August 20, 2016, 10:28:57 pm
I was wondering whether making it so you can't use forced march on the campaign map if an enemy army is nearby would help with chasing armies around. Repurposing of the rule on the tabletop where you can't march if enemies are too close by.There are mods to prevent the AI's cheating of forced march. Basically they can use it for free after actions.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 22, 2016, 08:22:26 am
Post by: Teneb on August 22, 2016, 08:46:00 am
Quote
To the Gravelord,
I hope the carrion bird was successful in delivering you this message. Under normal circumstances I would have communed with you in via arcane means, but the risk of interception is higher than normal in the case. It seems the Witch Hunters - curse their lot - have learned a rite disrupt such spells. So, to keep our plans covert I have put blood to paper.
As you have predicted, he has given chase. My brothers and I will lead him a merry danse around the Old World if we have to. While his ire is drawn towards my mischief, your own plans will be unshackled. I hope this proves beyond doubt that I am your worthy servant and that the secret knowledge you promised impart will at last be mine.
I dare not say too much more in case the Witch Hunters, using more mundane methods, intercept this letter and this missive finds its way into their hands. Yet, I feel this last warning must be given - I know whispers that another who bears your name is abroad once again. If such rumours do no prove false, then we must prepare. It will be the ring that has brought him back - therein lies some of his power.
Your obedient servant,
[Maybe] Helman Ghorst
E: Some corrections based on attempts by others.
Post by: Neonivek on August 22, 2016, 10:17:17 am
Quote
Your obedient servant
That guy really gets around.
Post by: Tack on August 22, 2016, 11:27:12 am
'Cos if so, Hot Damn. Nerf Pls.
Post by: Neonivek on August 22, 2016, 11:36:01 am
The Scaven and the Necros (Or... whatever the undead faction that lack Vampires is)
Post by: umiman on August 22, 2016, 11:55:22 am
It looks... really good! It's a bit funny that the two factions with the most diversity in units get all the units but hey, more is good.
----
This doesn't include the freeLC, but if Teneb's transcription is correct then it's either Vlad or Konrad.
Edit: Holy shit that Strigoi is riding a Terrorgheist. That's insane. If that doesn't end up being the strongest damn unit in the game, I don't know what to believe.
Edit: Hahaha, the Steam reviews for TW:W is mixed. I can totally see why, as the DLC is pretty frigging annoying.
Post by: Teneb on August 22, 2016, 12:07:46 pm
EDIT: Looks like it's been taken down already.
Post by: umiman on August 22, 2016, 12:24:47 pm
Reminds me of Shogun 2, where when it came out there were like... 20 maps total. Now there's so many.
Post by: Teneb on August 22, 2016, 01:00:24 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 22, 2016, 06:01:31 pm
Post by: Micro102 on August 23, 2016, 01:31:55 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 23, 2016, 01:47:34 am
Post by: umiman on August 23, 2016, 11:29:14 am
Vlad is the freeLC.
And uhh....
Well...
Quote
Vlad von Carstein as a free legendary lord for all players. The first – and arguably greatest – of the Vampire Counts is a nigh-unrivalled practitioner of the Lore of Vampires, granting Vanguard Deployment to all units under his command
Anyway, official video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yI1LVCGNpc&feature=youtu.be
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 23, 2016, 11:34:26 am
Post by: Ludorum Rex on August 23, 2016, 11:39:59 am
Post by: Teneb on August 23, 2016, 11:44:20 am
Vlad is just too good.
Post by: umiman on August 23, 2016, 11:48:33 am
It has all the units and everything.
This DLC costs about US$8 or CAD$9.
I'm still not buying it cause I'm stingy and I saw the DLC plans for the game and am pretty content for everything to come out (and be on sale) before I play again.
Post by: Tack on August 23, 2016, 11:51:46 am
So he did kind of single-handedly corrupt a whole fiefdom but still I thought Mannfred was more powerful?QuoteVlad is a nigh-unrivalled practitioner of the Lore of Vampires.
Edit: Magically speaking.
V: THAT BAR IS NOT SET INCREDIBLY HIGH.
Post by: Teneb on August 23, 2016, 11:58:32 am
No. Mannfred is just the sanest of his 'children'.So he did kind of single-handedly corrupt a whole fiefdom but still I thought Mannfred was more powerful?QuoteVlad is a nigh-unrivalled practitioner of the Lore of Vampires.
EDIT: The tears on the forums are delicious. Some people are raging that it's Vlad 'cuz he's dead and they wanted Red Duke/Neferata, and they're calling for Vlad to be unplayable in the campaign despite the fact that CA stated before release that they'd play fast and loose with the timeline.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 23, 2016, 02:46:36 pm
Post by: umiman on August 23, 2016, 03:25:25 pm
Post by: Neonivek on August 23, 2016, 04:45:51 pm
EDIT: The tears on the forums are delicious. Some people are raging that it's Vlad 'cuz he's dead and they wanted Red Duke/Neferata, and they're calling for Vlad to be unplayable in the campaign despite the fact that CA stated before release that they'd play fast and loose with the timeline.
After reading up on the timeline... It is probably best that they do play fast and loose with the timeline.
Post by: Teneb on August 23, 2016, 05:58:40 pm
Nefertata will be coming later anyway. Tomb kings are one of the leaked DLC races.Neferata's a vampire, though, unless they do a Khalida vs Neferata thing later like this upcoming one.
Anyway, Settra! is pretty much guaranteed, and that makes me happy.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 23, 2016, 10:00:48 pm
Units like the corpse cart and the mortis engine will be interesting as their more buffing units than combat ones. The Strigoi king is very neat as well and apparently has a spell that can summon units of crypt ghouls or crypt horrors if overcharged. The Templehof Luminark also has the net spell that can hold enemies in place.
Also: I want to see a picture of Vlad. I don't think he had a specific model in the tabletop later versions, though the generic vampire lord was based off of him. From what I know he has two looks, earlier handsome and later skull faced.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 24, 2016, 06:23:03 am
For some reason they didn't give Vlad a Mortarch mini during ETs, which I was rather upset over, since he's my favorite von Carstein. :(
Post by: Mech#4 on August 24, 2016, 06:44:17 am
I was getting a bit mixed up. There was a generic vampire lord model, the one with a single bat wing. Still, I guess Vlad will look like the model above.
Post by: Tack on August 24, 2016, 07:47:15 am
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2016, 09:51:50 am
It would be glorious.
It'd be like Fall of the Samurai all over again.
Post by: Tack on August 24, 2016, 10:24:03 am
You must be thinking of the mistake that was Rise.
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2016, 10:33:11 am
Fall of the Samurai rocked my world.What are you talking about?
You must be thinking of the mistake that was Rise.
It'd be amazing! A company of Spess Mahreens versus magic. It'd be like this all over again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj3-VkbRSKQ
Except I have no clue who would win.
-------------
Edit: Also the units from Rise of the Samurai were super duper strong against Fall of the Samurai units funnily enough. They were:
1. Cheap
2. Powerful in melee
3. All in spread formation constantly
They just owned guns so hard.
----------
I guess they could be Sigmarines too. They're the same bloody thing after all. Frigging End Times.
Post by: Teneb on August 24, 2016, 10:37:32 am
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2016, 10:47:31 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on August 24, 2016, 01:59:14 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 24, 2016, 04:43:45 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on August 24, 2016, 04:49:40 pm
I do actually like the Stormcast fluff. They're basically Norse Einherjar (keeping the Germanic tones of the Empire) with a Greek/Roman hero aesthetic that suits the sort of stories they seem to be aiming for.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 24, 2016, 04:52:14 pm
But they brought back marked beastmen with the Tzaangors though!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on August 24, 2016, 04:55:38 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on August 24, 2016, 05:25:58 pm
I wouldn't say the Tomb Kings got squatted so much as everything did. The whole point of AoS was that it let GW do a hard reset and divvy things up differently than they had in WHFB. I am curious about what they'll do with the Undead since they killed off the VCs as well, but kept vampires among the hierarchy of Nagash's new realm. Assuming the End Times aesthetic they sued for their minis holds out I expect we'll see a lot of Gothic/Egyptian mash up stuff like the Morghasts and Nagash himself.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 24, 2016, 05:35:55 pm
There's a kingdom of undead that sounds very suspiciously Tomb Kings showing up recently in blurbs however.
http://s75.photobucket.com/user/tylerrox6688/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpstlzap2lx.jpeg.html
Post by: Mech#4 on August 24, 2016, 09:16:01 pm
Anyway: A new video about the Grim and the Grave, outlining who exactly are Volkmar the Grim and Helman Ghorst. Also shows the ability pages for the two lords. I like the detail of the corpse cart with the twitcing arms and legs. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URX21pDclOo&feature=youtu.be)
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2016, 10:07:34 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 24, 2016, 11:29:59 pm
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2016, 11:56:02 pm
Zombies with poison sounds nasty. A tarpit unit that wears out the enemy faster along with the buffs from the corpse cart? I think a lot of the enjoyment from these unit packs will be the themed armies it makes feasable from the new options.He actually gives ALL units under his command poison attacks. So not just zombies. ;D
Post by: Mech#4 on August 25, 2016, 12:31:28 am
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2016, 01:54:55 am
I wonder what unit would benefit the most from that. Fellbats would be nice to fly in and wear down more powerful units before battle, though I don't know how quickly the effects of poison are applied to a unit.Poison is instant.
Also it doesn't do damage. It inflicts severe temporary debuffs on its opponent.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 25, 2016, 01:17:55 pm
I started a new campaign, rolled over the initial rival faction. Finished them off in a battle that mostly involved skeleton and zombie spam because its like turn 4 and nobody has advanced units yet.
Afterwards I see a little icon that says a great battle happened here and better stuff might be available for raise dead.
I click raise dead.
I now have some grave guard, a bunch of crypt horrors, and 2 units of black knights. I don't have the tech to make these, nor did the guy who died here. Is that a normal thing?
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2016, 01:42:59 pm
You generally don't really need to recruit troops normally as VC unless you're not fighting or want units with chevrons.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 25, 2016, 01:44:32 pm
Yes. The more that died in battle the more units you get and the better the quality.It.. just seems really odd that I don't need any of the buildings associated with these units. I'm getting high level shock cavalry and monsters without the investment in growth and resources normally needed. I'm not complaining but it still seems odd.
You generally don't really need to recruit troops normally as VC unless you're not fighting or want units with chevrons.
Also they're half price right now because of some event that cut all raise dead costs by 50% so woo
Post by: Teneb on August 25, 2016, 01:49:53 pm
The thing is that to reliably get these units via raise dead you will need to do big battles where a lot of units die, including your own. Not only that, but they get no chevrons, like umiman noted, and it's not always the ones you want or need. And you can only recruit them at that specific spot.Yes. The more that died in battle the more units you get and the better the quality.It.. just seems really odd that I don't need any of the buildings associated with these units. I'm getting high level shock cavalry and monsters without the investment in growth and resources normally needed. I'm not complaining but it still seems odd.
You generally don't really need to recruit troops normally as VC unless you're not fighting or want units with chevrons.
Also they're half price right now because of some event that cut all raise dead costs by 50% so woo
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 25, 2016, 01:56:01 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on August 25, 2016, 02:15:31 pm
Lotta bodies = lotta undead after all.
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 25, 2016, 02:18:48 pm
It's somewhat intended to represent stuff like the various battles at Hel Fenn, where the VCs would reanimate the dead from the last battle to reinforce their numbers in the most recent one, and the general way dark magic coalesces around battle sites and graveyards.Sure, but in this case it was two big start-of-game armies full of of skeletons and zombies that were obliterated and somehow from that corpse pile I've pulled black knights galore and crypt horrors, etc. It's all good, I just left one Lord at that location to constantly raise new units on the cheap. I don't even need to buy the production buildings, so I dedicated all of those slots to income buildings to fund my raising. I can outfit a new army in 3 turns. I wonder how long it will last.
Lotta bodies = lotta undead after all.
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2016, 02:24:04 pm
They are limited in number though and the VC have issues getting money so you can find just raising a single Terrorgheist cuts your income by 30% or something like that.
When I played my legendary VC campaign I was mostly just using zombies and skeletons with a Terrorgheist and some hexwraiths. It was cheap and easy to replace.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 25, 2016, 08:53:19 pm
I remember in that campaign I was also using heroes to raise the corruption in neighboring Averheim. Got to the point where I negotiated a defensive alliance with them against the empire. I think one of the effects of vampiric corruption is that it makes those factions affected more likely to accept your diplomatic terms.
Post by: umiman on August 27, 2016, 05:32:52 am
So I started up another Chaos campaign, as Archaon this time. Very hard.
I think between the Chaos hordes, the Norscans, and the Beastmen, the poor humans just get obliterated.
I swear I didn't even do anything. In fact, I can't even finish the long victory because there aren't enough settlements for me to attack.
Also, Archaon sucks balls. I don't know what it is about him, but I really don't like him. He's not a particularly amazing fighter. His mount sucks ass. He's limited to the Lore of Fire which is... meh. His legendary gear is pretty derpy. He's also pretty uncharismatic and unfun to play as. He's not cool like Sigvald or awesome like Kholek. He's basically just a souped up Chaos Lord... except regular Chaos Lords get Chaos Dragons while he gets his stupid little horse that makes him weaker.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 27, 2016, 05:57:05 am
Archaon is kind of generic. His unique items are nice but in my current campaign I only got them all by around turn 170. I use Archaon within 2 units of Chaos Knights as a flanking force with other heroes to give leadership to my main line. The lore of fire I use pretty much only for the flaming sword of rhuin just before lines meet. Also use Archaon as a hero/lord hunter.
I gained fondness for a lord I currently have equipped with the sword of torment, I think it's called. On use ability that lowers enemies attack and prevents them all from moving makes it great to catch enemy pistoleers as well as preventing enemy lords from fleeing before they're killed.
Post by: Tack on August 27, 2016, 07:21:00 am
I guess at least until the end times really kicks off.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 27, 2016, 07:51:34 am
I think the big problem with Archaon compared to tabletop is that his unique qualities don't actually transfer across all that well. In tabletop he was basically (or literally) immune to the attacks of mere spearmen and swordsmen unless they belonged to a superhuman race like WoC or Ogres for example, but in TW:WH he can be killed by massed spears rather than only being threatened by monsters and heroes/lords, and without Initiative, WS, Killing Blow and the other TT stats being simulated he can't kill enemy characters with a single hit, so he can get tarpitted or sniped by magic while being little more effective than a normal chaos lord in a brawl.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 27, 2016, 08:20:27 am
Also: Creative Assembly has uploaded the skill list along with a portrait of Vlad von Carstein on their twitter account. Nice abilities, he seems very maneuverable, good at attacking and hard to kill. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cqyy82KXYAEjPvL.jpg)
Post by: forsaken1111 on August 27, 2016, 08:25:07 am
Post by: Grim Portent on August 27, 2016, 08:31:03 am
At one point I had him sail all the way to the Badlands to help the Greenskins who were on the brink of extinction at the hands of the Dwarves, then once I had finally managed to break the back of the Dwarves and get them wiped out I returned North to clash with the Empire again. Biggest fight I ever had was when three full Empire armies attacked him at once and I couldn't run away, so I spell sniped their leaders and relied on the sheer crushing might of Shaggoths to make them break from casualties, while hiding from the full weight of their force behind a forest and a hill so they couldn't all see me at once to engage.
Post by: Criptfeind on August 27, 2016, 08:45:00 am
Post by: umiman on August 27, 2016, 12:10:24 pm
I remember it used to be pretty crap at killing things, just mostly for disruption. I was fiddling with custom games earlier and it was just owning face.
-------------
Edit: A few other things I've noticed:
1. Sartoreal sucks dick. He's so frigging weak and he costs so much.
2. Is it just me, or are heroes easier to kill now after all the balance patches?
3. I'm kinda okay with where magic is at right now. I think it could still use some work but spells are... reasonably spammable and reasonably useful.
4. Combat is a lot slower now compared to when the game first came out. I don't even need the Proper Combat Mod any more. If you don't have any flankers, your infantry blobs can be stuck there forever such as in sieges.
Post by: Tack on August 27, 2016, 01:07:56 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 27, 2016, 01:09:18 pm
Eh. I didn't like Kholek. I'm actually pretty bored with big dudes, weirdly. I don't want my lord on a dragon, I want my lord on a wall.Some big dudes are awesome, though, like Gorebulls and minotaurs in general.
Always incredible to see them literally roll over the enemy (and also bash down gates quicker than any ram).
Post by: Mech#4 on August 27, 2016, 09:22:44 pm
I do think spells should have more detailed descriptions, if it is relevent. In the tabletop spells targeted different stats so a spell that caused a toughness test would be best cast on a unit with low toughness like goblins or an initiative test on large monsters like the giant. Some spells would ignore armour value while others would use base leadership.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 30, 2016, 08:34:00 am
To be clear, the update will come with 5 new battle maps as well as Vlad von Carstein as free additions to the game.
One of the big changes in this update is the fixing of what direction reinforcements arrive from on the battle map, now related to where they're positioned on the campaign map.
The patch notes for update 3 are also up and available to be read on the Creative Assembly wiki. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/index.php?title=Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_3)
Post by: Teneb on September 02, 2016, 06:57:08 am
Post by: Tack on September 02, 2016, 07:06:30 am
Quote
Capped minimum reload time to prevent multiple Master Engineers rewriting the laws of physics and giving ranged units negative reload times.Those missed opportunities
Post by: Man of Paper on September 02, 2016, 12:20:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 10, 2016, 12:52:09 pm
Post by: Tack on October 10, 2016, 08:52:47 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 11, 2016, 08:11:57 am
Post by: Teneb on October 11, 2016, 10:20:32 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 12, 2016, 03:36:53 am
Post by: Tack on October 12, 2016, 03:38:53 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 12, 2016, 05:08:26 am
Orks vs Skaven
I swear if Skaven can only take Ork settlements... then I will officially say that whole "only some races can take the settlements of over" really WAS just an excuse 100% without question... Like I already think it is.
Post by: Shadowgandor on October 12, 2016, 06:44:48 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 12, 2016, 06:49:47 am
But they released an official mod that removes this limitation on day 1, but I seem to recall this argument having been used before :P
Yes, I recall it was just as apologist then as it is now.
Mostly because the game is not balanced towards the mod, the mod doesn't make any changes for this, and the mod causes several issues. It also wasn't "official" as in officially released and endorsed by the developers...
In otherwords "The existence of a mod that overcomes a limitation or flaw in the game doesn't excuse it"
---
And even then my conclusion is still kind of solid...
If Skaven can only take Ork settlements... which is such a terrible idea I highly doubt it is true... It really would just finally settle my theory on this whole "It is just weird" excuse they made.
Post by: Criptfeind on October 12, 2016, 07:04:34 am
Mostly because the game is not balanced towards the mod, the mod doesn't make any changes for this, and the mod causes several issues. It also wasn't "official" as in officially released and endorsed by the developers...
In otherwords "The existence of a mod that overcomes a limitation or flaw in the game doesn't excuse it"
Although most of the time I can sorta see your point with this, in this case this is bullshit. As soon as they knew they were going to be able to have mods they "offered dev team support" (whatever the heck that actually means) to Dresden to make sure that this mod would come out on day one, and they advertised it's existence as part of their advertisements for the game. No matter how you cut it that's completely official endorsement. So your conclusion is honestly completely wrong.
Post by: Neonivek on October 12, 2016, 07:09:03 am
Mostly because the game is not balanced towards the mod, the mod doesn't make any changes for this, and the mod causes several issues. It also wasn't "official" as in officially released and endorsed by the developers...
In otherwords "The existence of a mod that overcomes a limitation or flaw in the game doesn't excuse it"
Although most of the time I can sorta see your point with this, in this case this is bullshit. As soon as they knew they were going to be able to have mods they "offered dev team support" (whatever the heck that actually means) to Dresden to make sure that this mod would come out on day one, and they advertised it's existence as part of their advertisements for the game. No matter how you cut it that's completely official endorsement. So your conclusion is honestly completely wrong.
They did what Firaxis did... which is give him the tools so his mod could come out day 1... Mostly to advertise the tools to admit. (though it seemed to also existed as a deflection of the new system given how the fans often seem to take it.)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
---
Anyhow point is...
Skaven should have Ork, Dwarf, Human, and Vampire as their settlements they can take...
I honestly thought they would just be able to take humans/Vampire but be able to use underways.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 12, 2016, 09:39:21 am
Spoiler: Interesting points (click to show/hide)
There's also this page for Wurrzag. A free Lord coming at the same time as The King and the Warlord DLC. October 21st. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/404015/)
Post by: Teneb on October 12, 2016, 09:50:17 am
EDIT: Okay, it's pretty clear from the steam page they put in a lot more detail into this one than Grim and Grave. Both starts are pretty cool, with Belegar starting in the Border Princes with four etheral (dwarf ghosts) heroes with him, at the cost of higher upkeep 'til he grabs the peaks, and Skarsnik way over in the Grey Mountains (between the Empire and Bretonnia), being the first Lord with two models (not counting mounts) and being stuck with goblins 'til he also grabs the peaks. I'm surprised Bugman's Rnagers are a regular unit and not a RoR, though.
I guess we'll also be getting Wurrzag as a FLC.
EDIT: Looks like the Great Green Prophet (http://store.steampowered.com/app/404015/) gets his own store page, despite being free. Like his buddies in the paid content, he has his own start. I guess this is going to be a pattern for most Lords now, with some exceptions.
Post by: Persus13 on October 12, 2016, 12:46:55 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 12, 2016, 12:48:02 pm
Well that link to the Free lord doesn't appear to work, so maybe not.I think they took the page down.
Post by: umiman on October 12, 2016, 01:06:48 pm
By next year we will probably have DLC Legendary Lord Gabriel Angelos, Chapter Master of the Blud Rahvens. He wields Godsplitter and has the ability described in the Codex Astartes as Steel Rain. He will have the ability to mount an Imperator Titan and starts off with the first company terminators retinue.
And then after that we will get all four Chaos gods themselves. Literally them. But they don't do anything. They just kinda sit around and plot and everyone just ascribes their regular behaviour to them.
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 01:17:37 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 12, 2016, 01:31:19 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 01:49:23 pm
Post by: Cruxador on October 12, 2016, 05:53:11 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 12, 2016, 05:55:38 pm
So, when this was on its way to market, the verdict was "won't be great on launch, wait until they patch it to be good". Is it good yet?I think it's great. If you like Warhammer fantasy and total war you will like this
Post by: nenjin on October 12, 2016, 06:07:27 pm
So, when this was on its way to market, the verdict was "won't be great on launch, wait until they patch it to be good". Is it good yet?
Mods appear to have addressed the more crippling unbalanced/unfun mechanics in vanilla.
Now that I think about it though, I'd love to see a 40k total conversion for this.
I don't think it'd work. As someone who made the switch from Fantasy to 40k a long time ago....
40k doesn't operate in static battlelines and formations. Terrain only makes 40k games more fun and interesting; it tends to ruin Fantasy. In 40k figs can actually get into the terrain. In Fantasy you pretty much avoid getting into terrain unless it's 100% flat. Otherwise you spend 1/2 your turn trying to keep your figs in a line.
It's why I made the switch. 40k just isn't as starchy and cumbersome to play as Fantasy. It makes for way more exciting and interesting photos too.
At a basic level it'd work yeah, but I don't think it'd really deliver 40k game play so much as a believable 40k re-skinning.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 12, 2016, 09:22:25 pm
It could also work for Ogre Kingdoms hunters with their sabrecats and a few others that I'm forgetting.
Another thought is with the addition of different factions of races, we could see future packs that add some of the missing units to, say, the Beastmen (Harpies, Ghorgon and Jabberslythe) alongside a new legendary lord. Two packs you could buy, either lets you play as the Beastmen but one could have the focus on the previous units while the existing one has the Minotaurs as the unique units.
Post by: Teneb on October 13, 2016, 05:46:25 am
Another thought is with the addition of different factions of races, we could see future packs that add some of the missing units to, say, the Beastmen (Harpies, Ghorgon and Jabberslythe) alongside a new legendary lord. Two packs you could buy, either lets you play as the Beastmen but one could have the focus on the previous units while the existing one has the Minotaurs as the unique units.CA outright stated that they'll never do DLC for DLC. Mind you, that doesn't mean they won't add more stuff to DLC content, it's just that it will be free.
Post by: Tack on October 13, 2016, 06:07:03 am
Although all the DLC for Fall of the samurai counts, right?
Post by: Mech#4 on October 13, 2016, 06:08:04 am
I remember people on the official forum dicussing it a little while ago on where that quote came from. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/185373/where-does-no-dlc-for-dlc-come-from) Apparently it was in relation to the "Age of Charlemange" pack for Atilla: Total War.
" Darren_CA said:
The DLC may recieve free updates for a short time, but we have no plans to add more DLC that requires DLC already... that probably wouldn't go down well with the wider community!"
A bit more here in quotes and a link to an article on Warhammer: Total War. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/184535/flc-dlc-for-dlc-updated-info-24-9-2016#latest)
Post by: Persus13 on October 13, 2016, 08:26:38 am
Post by: Tack on October 13, 2016, 08:43:22 am
Post by: Cruxador on October 13, 2016, 10:48:03 am
I have never played Total War before, but it seems like something I would like. It's basically a grand strategy-lite with big real-time tactical combat, right? A bit like Dominions 4 but less magic and real time control and not tile-based.So, when this was on its way to market, the verdict was "won't be great on launch, wait until they patch it to be good". Is it good yet?I think it's great. If you like Warhammer fantasy and total war you will like this
I do like the Warhammer setting though I'm not super into it.
This is the info I was looking for. What are the must-have mods, then?So, when this was on its way to market, the verdict was "won't be great on launch, wait until they patch it to be good". Is it good yet?
Mods appear to have addressed the more crippling unbalanced/unfun mechanics in vanilla.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 13, 2016, 10:51:53 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 13, 2016, 11:31:09 am
Post by: Tack on October 13, 2016, 11:36:10 am
I have never played Total War before, but it seems like something I would like. It's basically a grand strategy-lite with big real-time tactical combat, right? A bit like Dominions 4 but less magic and real time control and not tile-based.So, when this was on its way to market, the verdict was "won't be great on launch, wait until they patch it to be good". Is it good yet?I think it's great. If you like Warhammer fantasy and total war you will like this
Total war games are pretty hard to compare to anything else, they don't really have many competitors in that field.
Hegemony Rome is probably the closest imitator.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 13, 2016, 12:36:29 pm
Post by: umiman on October 13, 2016, 12:42:13 pm
I don't personally find any of the mechanics particulary unfun, so I'd suggest playing vanilla first before you break out the mods.This.
I found they fixed a number of the issues I had with the game with the patches such as the magic damage thing on ultra unit size.
There's no mod to fix the sieges being kinda lame after awhile but what can ya do.
Basically all the mods I use just exist to fix inconsistencies or make the game prettier. I don't even use the combat mods any more as I find they made the vanilla combat flow way better now as opposed to the super speedy battles when it first came out.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 13, 2016, 01:13:33 pm
Post by: sprinkled chariot on October 13, 2016, 01:15:47 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 13, 2016, 01:44:30 pm
Lack of naval warfare dissapoints me :(
Right? Warhammer Fantasy is ripe for naval warfare as well.
Post by: Vendayn on October 13, 2016, 01:51:12 pm
Lack of naval warfare dissapoints me :(
Well, when Dark Elves and High Elves are put in...they are gonna have to add naval warfare in.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 13, 2016, 01:56:59 pm
Post by: timferius on October 13, 2016, 02:01:18 pm
Post by: umiman on October 13, 2016, 02:05:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 13, 2016, 02:57:33 pm
I remember reading that they plan to add it in one of the stand alones, but I don't have a source at the moment.Pretty much this. It's just that it makes no sense when everyone is on the same continent and don't even regularly do naval warfare against each other. Even the norse even mostly use their navy as transports when attacking the Old World. It'll come when Lustria, Ulthuan and Naggaroth come in.
Post by: Tack on October 13, 2016, 05:24:23 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on October 13, 2016, 05:52:09 pm
Maybe it'll be a DLC?
It had best be FreeLC. Doubtable, but still.
Post by: umiman on October 13, 2016, 06:21:42 pm
It'll almost definitely be part of an expansion pack (aka, the one mentioned previously regarding the new world).Maybe it'll be a DLC?
It had best be FreeLC. Doubtable, but still.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 14, 2016, 08:28:54 am
People think it might be some Savage Orc units like the Big Stabba since Wurrzag was mentioned as leading the Bloody Handz Savage Orc tribe.
There was also a video covering one the the quest battles of Belegar showing off the bolt thrower, squig herds and rangers. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/185963/total-war-warhammer-belegar-ironhammer-quest-battle-lets-play/p1)
Post by: umiman on October 14, 2016, 11:32:47 am
Quote
This content pack also includes an update to the Chaos Warriors army roster in the shape of three new units:
Feral Manticores,
Marauder Horsemasters,
Aspiring Champions.
Post by: Teneb on October 14, 2016, 01:34:50 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 15, 2016, 02:24:56 am
There was also a funny moment during a quest battle for Wurrzag that involved exploding squigs. Soopa Squigs that were unique to that quest battle.
Post by: Tack on October 15, 2016, 12:23:06 pm
That sounds pretty awesome.
Shogun 2 Heroes, Hello
Post by: sprinkled chariot on October 16, 2016, 10:13:42 am
Post by: Tack on October 16, 2016, 01:25:40 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 18, 2016, 08:20:56 am
Some interesting points are:
Manticore mount for all chaos sorcerer heroes.
Fanatics are now an activated ability. Previously they activated at random when near enemy units.
Entrenchment ability for Dwarfen master engineers. Gives armour piercing, missile damage and physical resistance to a unit but prevents movement for duration.
A.I. main race factions (Empire, Dwarf, Vampire Counts, Greenskins) will recruit regiments of renown.
Post by: Teneb on October 19, 2016, 08:12:54 am
Spoiler: Belegar (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Skarsnik (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on October 19, 2016, 10:05:52 am
Interestingly enough, apparently you can keep the lords Skarsnik and Belegar if you manage to confederate with their faction during a campaign even if you don't have the DLC. THe lords won't be legendary though which I assume means if they die they won't come back. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/186134/confederate-clan-angrund-or-crooked-moon-to-gain-access-to-skarsnik-belegar-without-owning-the-dlc)
Post by: Teneb on October 20, 2016, 12:13:23 pm
Post by: Silent_Thunder on October 22, 2016, 09:13:12 pm
Also RadiousMod died because the developer got married or something, which normally I wouldn't care much about becuase radious mods are always sorta bloaty and don't care about faction flavor (everyone gets everything is the order of the day), but now I'm seeing radious users flock to other mods I do like and demanding radious like changes, and I really, really hope the modders stand their ground.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 22, 2016, 09:17:30 pm
Post by: Silent_Thunder on October 22, 2016, 09:29:20 pm
That said if you don't own it yet, don't get it. I can't see it not being a winter sale game. Same for DLCs. Probably be able to pick it up for at least half off.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 22, 2016, 09:50:51 pm
You'll want to play as Empire then. Pike and Shotte is basically their byword, as they don't have the muscle to go man to man with big nasties like the Dwarfs do. Pretty solid gunpowder based roster from top to bottom, although the crossbowmen are trash and I'd ignore them. An empire army ideally wants the enemy dead before they even reach mele range, and if not to meet them with halberds that can tear through armor like butter.
That said if you don't own it yet, don't get it. I can't see it not being a winter sale game. Same for DLCs. Probably be able to pick it up for at least half off.
That's the hope right now. It might even be on sale for Halloween.
Post by: umiman on October 23, 2016, 12:02:13 am
They don't get the versatility of the humans but this is how they play.
"WE'RE GOING TO SIT HERE AND YOU'RE GOING TO COME AT US. WE'RE NOT GOING TO MOVE FROM THIS SPOT AND IF YOU DON'T COME AT US YOU WILL DIE."
For awhile, the Dwarfs had worse artillery than the humans but now they're better. No tanks though, humans have tanks and giant lasers. Dwarfs have flamethrowers instead.
The Wood Elves will probably be the next DLC faction, so they'll be the ranged guys to go if they come out.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 23, 2016, 12:10:40 am
Back to RTW2 for now.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 24, 2016, 01:03:06 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on October 24, 2016, 03:15:58 am
I've been having fun watching squigs eating things. During one battle I watched Gobbla eat a night goblin followed by 2 black orcs. It's amazing and stupid silly. How do they fit in the squig? Where do they go? Black Orcs are bigger than the squig itself! Squigs must be like bags of holding.
Some Squigs have some very acidic stomach acid, they likely just dissolved horrifically.
Post by: Shadowgandor on October 24, 2016, 03:22:12 am
Post by: Neonivek on October 24, 2016, 03:47:30 am
Playing as Skarsnik reminded me how horrible it is to play against Dwarfs as Orcs. Having only Goblins at your disposal makes things even worse. I feel like I can't make a dent against Dwarfs in combat, so I just auto resolve everything. Even Chaos is easier to play against :(
Dwarves seem built to destroy early Orks.
Because while Goblins are mostly trash... Dwarves, in a way, have no trash.
As well most Ork units are outright countered by Dwarves (which in turn have a counter for dwarves)...
Basically Dwarves are in many ways the counter for Orks.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 24, 2016, 05:23:16 am
The rest of the army is made up of night goblins and other vanguard units. Night goblins are great for sneaking around the back of a dwarf line along with the nasty skulkers. I think the key is to tie up the dwarf ranged units with squig herds, hoppers or other fast moving units before you bring in your infantry. You don't want nasty skulkers taking ranged fire.
Use the trolls on tough units and the arachnarok to chomp on enemy lords. If a dwarf unit is close to breaking, charge them with your ranged cavarly to try and break them. Fanatics aimed down the dwarf line helps as well but since they're random it's more just piling on more things happening.
With the vanguard units I have them in two smaller armies off to the sides in the front. One tends to be infantry and squigs while the other is wolves and spider riders.
Don't be too afraid if your units flee. I usually have them flee a few times over the battle but bring them back in again once they rally.
Greenskins have maneuverability over dwarfs. When the dwarfs engage your small front line in melee, flank with the majority of your hidden units and charge them in the rear.
Post by: Teneb on October 24, 2016, 07:11:44 am
Post by: Teneb on October 24, 2016, 06:07:42 pm
Post by: umiman on October 28, 2016, 03:42:23 pm
If you don't know what that is, CA and Games Workshop have released a "free" DLC lord for the Dwarfs. You need either a copy of White Dwarf, their magazine, or head to any Games Workshop location and get a code from them.
This is the lord by the way:
(http://cdn.akamai.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/506190/extras/Grom_2.jpg?t=1477656506)
And just between you and me, I heard that there may or may not be an extra code sitting around somewhere around these here musty halls. So if there is a Bay12er who lives in some uncivilized hellzone that doesn't have a Games Workshop store, it might be a good idea to complain about it loudly. Like a Longbeard.
Also the cards come with 20% off Total War Warhammer, so if anyone wants that let me know.
Post by: Fanofgaming on October 28, 2016, 03:57:24 pm
And just between you and me, I heard that there may or may not be an extra code sitting around somewhere around these here musty halls. So if there is a Bay12er who lives in some uncivilized hellzone that doesn't have a Games Workshop store, it might be a good idea to complain about it loudly. Like a Longbeard.
AGH, there be no Games Workshop stores near my Karak! Back in my day, there was a Games Workshop store on every corner of the land -- and they were 'uge! You younger Dawi just don't know how much smaller Games Workshop stores are these days, and how fewer they are. Just like these new smaller goblins! I would know. Just look at how long my beard is! I once even defended a Games Workshop store against a horde of Orcs! Back then, Orcs really knew how to siege a Games Workshop store, and we knew how to hold 'em back. These days, there just aren't any Games Workshop stores around, though!
Especially not near my area.
Post by: Wiles on October 28, 2016, 05:13:17 pm
edit: somehow managed to post a message before I finished typing.
I went to a store yesterday.
I don't live near a store, I had to go quite a ways to get to one. When I got there I realised I could have saved the trip and just called. oops. It's not a GW store anyway, just a boardgame shop that has some warhammer stuff. They said they weren't getting codes but they would have the magazine. Too bad I'm a dumbass and went early, I'm not going to be out that way again for a while. haha.
Is there anywhere to order the magazine, or is it too late for that, because I can't seem to be able to find a source for November's issue.
Post by: Teneb on October 28, 2016, 05:23:35 pm
Post by: umiman on October 28, 2016, 07:46:07 pm
What do you guys think?
Post by: Burnt Pies on October 28, 2016, 08:10:03 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 28, 2016, 08:28:43 pm
Anyway, apparently some teasers have been uploaded onto Creative Assembly's instagram. If you actually go there, I believe there is a link for a promotion thingy tied to one of the images. (https://i.reddituploads.com/8615eef624a6478eb1fd33cbb3a52ea0?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&s=b3ec33244e45134b2146a94aaff63339)
Post by: Fanofgaming on October 28, 2016, 09:03:02 pm
Fanofgaming: Hmmm... I dunno. That doesn't seem very longbeardy to me.
What do you guys think?
A Ungrim like you wouldn't know a longbeard from a Drengi! When I was young Dawi, beardlings knew how to show proper respect to their elders. Nevermind the fact that you're 943 years older than me! I fought and killed Urks and Grobi to protect a Karak where every Dawi is judged by the length of his beard, not the manner of his speaking! Now piss off, it's time for my yearly bath.
Post by: umiman on October 28, 2016, 09:24:15 pm
Okay, you got it. :PFanofgaming: Hmmm... I dunno. That doesn't seem very longbeardy to me.
What do you guys think?
A Ungrim like you wouldn't know a longbeard from a Drengi! When I was young Dawi, beardlings knew how to show proper respect to their elders. Nevermind the fact that you're 943 years older than me! I fought and killed Urks and Grobi to protect a Karak where every Dawi is judged by the length of his beard, not the manner of his speaking! Now piss off, it's time for my yearly bath.
Post by: Fanofgaming on October 28, 2016, 09:26:35 pm
Thanks, man. You're the best. <3Okay, you got it. :PFanofgaming: Hmmm... I dunno. That doesn't seem very longbeardy to me.
What do you guys think?
A Ungrim like you wouldn't know a longbeard from a Drengi! When I was young Dawi, beardlings knew how to show proper respect to their elders. Nevermind the fact that you're 943 years older than me! I fought and killed Urks and Grobi to protect a Karak where every Dawi is judged by the length of his beard, not the manner of his speaking! Now piss off, it's time for my yearly bath.
Post by: Persus13 on October 29, 2016, 12:02:29 am
Post by: umiman on October 29, 2016, 12:07:01 am
Aren't they releasing this lord to be free for everyone in a few months anyways?Yeah, next January.
Post by: Burnt Pies on October 29, 2016, 10:17:22 pm
Gonna want to see some grumbling first, though.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on October 29, 2016, 10:35:33 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 30, 2016, 08:53:33 am
grumbling... grumbling... Live in the UP of Michigan, closest Games Workshop store is about ten hours away and can't get a code... would love to get one, plz.Bah, that's not even worth a grudge. There ain't a store in this damn continent, and you can bet that's going in the book.
Post by: stabbymcstabstab on October 30, 2016, 12:17:22 pm
Where the help do live? Anyplace that isn't Britian?grumbling... grumbling... Live in the UP of Michigan, closest Games Workshop store is about ten hours away and can't get a code... would love to get one, plz.Bah, that's not even worth a grudge. There ain't a store in this damn continent, and you can bet that's going in the book.
Post by: Teneb on October 30, 2016, 01:28:11 pm
Brazil, as can be seen in my profile.Where the help do live? Anyplace that isn't Britian?grumbling... grumbling... Live in the UP of Michigan, closest Games Workshop store is about ten hours away and can't get a code... would love to get one, plz.Bah, that's not even worth a grudge. There ain't a store in this damn continent, and you can bet that's going in the book.
Post by: Wiles on October 30, 2016, 01:30:21 pm
Post by: Burnt Pies on October 31, 2016, 06:12:35 am
Post by: Teneb on October 31, 2016, 02:00:57 pm
Look at the very top of the image. This was in the official Total War instagram, by the way.
Spoiler: spoiled so it doesn't mangle the page for mobile users (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on October 31, 2016, 05:08:05 pm
Post by: Wiles on October 31, 2016, 05:39:43 pm
Post by: Tack on October 31, 2016, 05:43:07 pm
Also maybe Lustria, Nekehara and Ulthuan and such will be standalones/map extensions to the east and west.
This is all second hand info but they have a roadmap somewhere which has it all.
Post by: Teneb on October 31, 2016, 05:43:58 pm
I'm not terribly familiar with the details Warhammer lore, is it possible that we will get skaven in the future? Or would they not be part of the map the game takes place on?Theoretically speaking, they are everywhere. Theoretically, they'll be eventually added. I say theoretically because these ludicrous tales of man-sized rats are clearly myths spun by Marienburg cheese merchants to drive up the prices.
Post by: umiman on October 31, 2016, 06:02:32 pm
But I'm sure they'll throw in a few bones here and there to appease the cultists who worship these nonsensical things.
Post by: Fanofgaming on October 31, 2016, 10:39:26 pm
I'd like to see it, but I'm just not sure CA can get the mechanics down.
Post by: Tack on November 01, 2016, 12:50:01 am
Specifically the deployment zones, everything else is great, but I hate that I can't pincer the enemy archers.
Post by: Fanofgaming on November 01, 2016, 03:10:25 pm
Is it just me who doesn't particularly like the beastman ambush maps?
Specifically the deployment zones, everything else is great, but I hate that I can't pincer the enemy archers.
I just think that they're WAY too small. I feel like, as beastmen, you don't get any room to maneuver or do any sort of tactical planning; you're basically forced to immediately rush them.
Post by: Criptfeind on November 01, 2016, 03:36:40 pm
Things that could maybe be effecting it maybe...?: I attacked the empire, which they like but have no agreements of any sort with (I got a penalty for that, but not a large one.). They integrated some dwarven kingdom that had nothing to do with me. And they have started to seriously loose the war against the orcs. None of these seem like something that would wipe out all friendly modfiriers, but maybe there's something I'm missing.
Any idea what's up?
Post by: umiman on November 01, 2016, 05:22:31 pm
Post by: Tack on November 02, 2016, 01:27:18 am
Actually everything is temporary in diplomacy.
In the 30 turns it could've faded and disappeared.
Post by: timferius on November 03, 2016, 06:09:26 am
To add to this, their defacto capital Skaveblight resides beneath the blighter marshes, which ARE represented on the map, with a unique geographical texture (the same that the woods of the woodelves are represented currently with a unique woods). It's down in Tilea near Estalia, at the head of that bay.I'm not terribly familiar with the details Warhammer lore, is it possible that we will get skaven in the future? Or would they not be part of the map the game takes place on?Theoretically speaking, they are everywhere. Theoretically, they'll be eventually added. I say theoretically because these ludicrous tales of man-sized rats are clearly myths spun by Marienburg cheese merchants to drive up the prices.
Post by: Tack on November 03, 2016, 08:18:52 am
I thought the Skaven lived underneath Troll Country..
Post by: Mech#4 on November 03, 2016, 08:48:25 am
I think Cripple Peak is another major settlement but that's off the map as well, I think around the lake that can be seen in the south east corner.
Skaven would also have a major settlement in Lustria, being where Clan Pestilens comes from and fights against the Lizardmen. Hellpit is the major stronghold of Clan Moulder. Clan Eshin comes from Cathay while Clan Skryre I believe is mostly centered in Skavenblight.
Post by: Teneb on November 03, 2016, 10:18:45 am
Skaven major settlements are Skavenblight (the swamps north of Tobaro), Hellpit (along the southern edge of the mountains north of Kislev) and Crookback Mountain (off the map, there might be a lone mountain there. It's kind of across from Karak Eight Peaks over the edge of the map slightly). The army book I'm looking at also mentions the City of Pillars which is another name for Karak Eight Peaks.Eshin is actually from even further east: Nippon. Pestilens also operates out of the Southlands, and there are also the numerous minor clans.
I think Cripple Peak is another major settlement but that's off the map as well, I think around the lake that can be seen in the south east corner.
Skaven would also have a major settlement in Lustria, being where Clan Pestilens comes from and fights against the Lizardmen. Hellpit is the major stronghold of Clan Moulder. Clan Eshin comes from Cathay while Clan Skryre I believe is mostly centered in Skavenblight.
Post by: timferius on November 03, 2016, 11:41:36 am
Either way, Skavenblight IS the heart of the Skaven empire. I could see them adding them now, and saving Pestilence for the expansion that goes to lustria for example. I need my rat-folk, so I can have a Skyre army of Doom-Wheels and Warplightning Cannons.Skaven major settlements are Skavenblight (the swamps north of Tobaro), Hellpit (along the southern edge of the mountains north of Kislev) and Crookback Mountain (off the map, there might be a lone mountain there. It's kind of across from Karak Eight Peaks over the edge of the map slightly). The army book I'm looking at also mentions the City of Pillars which is another name for Karak Eight Peaks.Eshin is actually from even further east: Nippon. Pestilens also operates out of the Southlands, and there are also the numerous minor clans.
I think Cripple Peak is another major settlement but that's off the map as well, I think around the lake that can be seen in the south east corner.
Skaven would also have a major settlement in Lustria, being where Clan Pestilens comes from and fights against the Lizardmen. Hellpit is the major stronghold of Clan Moulder. Clan Eshin comes from Cathay while Clan Skryre I believe is mostly centered in Skavenblight.
Post by: Grim Portent on November 03, 2016, 12:04:29 pm
Post by: timferius on November 03, 2016, 12:49:11 pm
Weren't Clan Pestilens driven out of Lustria by the Lizardmen? I could have sworn they had to abandon their attempt to invade the continent and returned to the Old World to carve out a place among the other clans.Quick lore check says yes. However during the End Times (approximately when the games seem to be set), Pestilence went back to destroy Lustria, so I still hold they'll be added when Lustria is added.
Post by: Tack on November 03, 2016, 02:15:29 pm
I daresay Pestilens, Skryre, Moulder and Eshin will all just be research trees and nothing more.Weren't Clan Pestilens driven out of Lustria by the Lizardmen? I could have sworn they had to abandon their attempt to invade the continent and returned to the Old World to carve out a place among the other clans.Quick lore check says yes. However during the End Times (approximately when the games seem to be set), Pestilence went back to destroy Lustria, so I still hold they'll be added when Lustria is added.
Much like vampire counts current research tree.
Post by: Teneb on November 03, 2016, 02:52:58 pm
I think we'll just have a generic Skaven faction, with a few other independent ones for stuff like Hell Pit, and when Lustria is added we'll get Pestilens as it's own faction like Skarsnik and Belegar.I daresay Pestilens, Skryre, Moulder and Eshin will all just be research trees and nothing more.Weren't Clan Pestilens driven out of Lustria by the Lizardmen? I could have sworn they had to abandon their attempt to invade the continent and returned to the Old World to carve out a place among the other clans.Quick lore check says yes. However during the End Times (approximately when the games seem to be set), Pestilence went back to destroy Lustria, so I still hold they'll be added when Lustria is added.
Much like vampire counts current research tree.
Oh, CA will be doing a AMA (questions about upcoming content excluded) on reddit tomorrow. Questions should be submitted today. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/5awdqq/total_war_design_team_ama_submit_questions_now/)
Post by: Stuebi on November 03, 2016, 07:48:57 pm
Kudos to GW for still reminding me that they are a horrible money-grubbing company every once in a while, even after I quit playing Wallethammer on Tabletop.
On the subject of Skaven. I hope they do it similiar to Skarsnik and split the Factions off somewhat. I'm also curious who the LL's are gonna be.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 03, 2016, 08:20:39 pm
Other lords could be Throt the Unclean for Clan Moulder, Lord Skrolk for Clan Pestilens and Deathmaster Snikch for Clan Eshin. There's also Tretch Craventail for Clan Rictus though he's more of a chieftain compared to the others. Interestingly, none of the lords are actually the leaders of their clans as all the clan leaders, Morskitter of Skryre, Nurglitch of Pestilens and Lord Sneek of Eshin as some of them, sit on the council and don't really take part in battles.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 05, 2016, 06:51:36 am
It came with a 20% off voucher for the game, if anybody's thinking of buying it and likes discounts.
Post by: Dohon on November 05, 2016, 10:15:29 am
I can easily get a new one, so I've got a Grombrindal code... for the one to do the best Skaven impression! I'm waiting!
It came with a 20% off voucher for the game, if anybody's thinking of buying it and likes discounts.
Quick-quick, man-thing. Give-give warpstone. Or we stab-stab you and your offspring, man-thing. Yes-yes? Hurry, now-now, man-thing! Before big moon rises! SQUEEK!
[The moment you resist just a bit, they will probably squirt the musk of fear and skitter off. Unless there's a pack of them ...]
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 06, 2016, 10:26:39 am
I can easily get a new one, so I've got a Grombrindal code... for the one to do the best Skaven impression! I'm waiting!
It came with a 20% off voucher for the game, if anybody's thinking of buying it and likes discounts.
Quick-quick, man-thing. Give-give warpstone. Or we stab-stab you and your offspring, man-thing. Yes-yes? Hurry, now-now, man-thing! Before big moon rises! SQUEEK!
[The moment you resist just a bit, they will probably squirt the musk of fear and skitter off. Unless there's a pack of them ...]
That'll do it. PM'ing you the code.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2016, 12:43:42 pm
What I don't get is how they just announced that they'll be releasing it in a version of the game called Total War Warhammer Old World Edition or some bullshit like that.
The only difference between that convoluted mess of words and what we have now is it comes with Bretonnia in the box and the retail version has a little booklet / novella in it.
So you might be thinking, only TWWOWE owners get Bretonnia now? No. We will all get it in a free patch at the same time.
Do TWWOWE owners get all the DLC then? Is it a complete edition? No. It's the same as the vanilla game.
So I have no clue why they decided to just confuse everyone. The new name basically means nothing. Literally nothing. I don't get it.
----
Anyway, here's the announcement: https://www.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461.25910.113800552028487/1226097520798779/?type=3
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
They're also planning more free-LC which is always nice:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
----
Edit: Oh I get it now. It's because the expansion will be the new world.
Post by: Tack on November 08, 2016, 12:58:44 pm
The even newer world?
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2016, 01:07:06 pm
So what's the second expansion going to be?According to the Russian leaks, first expansion will be new world, second expansion will probably be the other side of the Eastern mountains so like Ogres and stuff.
The even newer world?
Or Skaven, who knows. Second expansion is pretty far out.
Post by: Tack on November 08, 2016, 01:15:08 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2016, 01:38:00 pm
East... Ogres, Nekehara... where's the good guy?If you don't count Cathay, nowhere. Ogres are super neutral though. Omnivore neutral, in fact. Ogres are the least discriminating race on the Warhammer World: they eat everyone equally.
Anyway, in the New World we have: High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Hung (Chaos nomads), a norscan colony, an estalian colony, the Vampire Coast, Skaven, and of course Greenskins.
East (though still west of Far Cathay) are: Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Skaven, and more Greenskins (including Hobgoblins and Gnoblars).
South (which has to be added at some point) has: Tomb Kings, Araby, some very lost Lizardmen, Beastmen, extremely lost Dwarfs, and some other southlands humans. And more Greenskins, particularly Savage Orcs.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2016, 01:41:34 pm
I'm inclined to agree.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 08, 2016, 01:52:13 pm
Post by: Tack on November 08, 2016, 01:59:43 pm
I wonder if Tomb kings will be a southern invasion horde then? More worthwhile than opening the map onto dull crap.
Also no giant squiggoth with the Wurzzag release? Not cool.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2016, 02:01:02 pm
We call it Total Waaagh!, and that's enough. Informals have power.FTFY
I wonder if Tomb kings will be a southern invasion horde then? More worthwhile than opening the map onto dull crap.Doesn't make sense. The TKs just like to chill in their desert, sometimes venturing forth to recover stolen stuff.
Also no giant squiggoth with the Wurzzag release? Not cool.There are giant squigs, but squiggoths are a 40k thing.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 08, 2016, 02:02:39 pm
Also, since this is Fantasy, i want their to be an Orc Tribe led by a cranky female, with the name "Mama'z Boyz"
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2016, 02:04:51 pm
Aaaw, i wanted a giant squig named Tiny.Going to be a boring person again and say that fantasy orcs still don't have genders. There is a giant squig mod in the workshop though.
Also, since this is Fantasy, i want their to be an Orc Tribe led by a cranky female, with the name "Mama'z Boyz"
Post by: LordPorkins on November 08, 2016, 02:07:35 pm
Edit: Moment of silence for all those who have been devoured by that ever-hungry Maw, The Retconnian. Never forget the Squats. And Malal (HE EXISTS IN OUR HEARTS!)
Post by: Tack on November 08, 2016, 02:36:20 pm
And this theme persisted during the whole "End Times Rise Of Nagash" deal?I wonder if Tomb kings will be a southern invasion horde then? More worthwhile than opening the map onto dull crap.Doesn't make sense. The TKs just like to chill in their desert, sometimes venturing forth to recover stolen stuff.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2016, 03:06:46 pm
Only until Nagash waltzed in and defeated Settra!, while Neferata took care of Khalida, the only two TKs who had any real power over the rest of the lot.And this theme persisted during the whole "End Times Rise Of Nagash" deal?I wonder if Tomb kings will be a southern invasion horde then? More worthwhile than opening the map onto dull crap.Doesn't make sense. The TKs just like to chill in their desert, sometimes venturing forth to recover stolen stuff.
Post by: Teneb on November 16, 2016, 10:57:29 am
Spoiler: For those on phones and such, I transcribed the message out of boredom (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on November 17, 2016, 04:39:50 am
Anyone know anything else about those
Edit: Not exactly 'rumor' then, so much as 'official announcement'.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 17, 2016, 04:53:59 am
Spoiler: From the Total War Facebook page (click to show/hide)
I would guess it's a more descriptive title in preperation for the stand alone expansions so they're more distinct. So yes, Bretonnia are getting released as free content in February next year.
Post by: Teneb on November 17, 2016, 10:25:31 am
CA says the steam page with all the features will be up within the hour, but in their facebook they said Wood Elves can conquer all settlements. All. Including those in norsca.
Post by: Persus13 on November 17, 2016, 11:48:36 am
While Wood Elves can conquer all settlements, they're very limited in what they can build outside their forest settlements.
Post by: nenjin on November 17, 2016, 12:02:18 pm
Post by: umiman on November 17, 2016, 12:45:47 pm
Way more variety, way more interesting, way better campaign mechanics.
Still not gonna buy it though, cause I'm a cheapskate.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 17, 2016, 01:37:31 pm
And then they stopped. They had a good thing and then they just abandoned it. Beastmen could EASILY become at least as popular as Skaven
Post by: umiman on November 17, 2016, 01:44:45 pm
But for this Wood Elf DLC, apparently the entire Wood Elf roster is in it except for a few heroes.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 17, 2016, 01:45:25 pm
Like Beastmen, or Skaven. Or Malal
Post by: umiman on November 17, 2016, 01:56:14 pm
Didn't you just say you liked the Beastmen?
Also we know Skaven are coming. And Malal will probably show up as some kind of joke or easter egg in the final Warhammer Total War expansion where they said it'll just about about Chaos and the demons.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 17, 2016, 01:57:40 pm
Edit: Malal Should Show up. Like, he is just such a rogue card (IS he Chaos, or Anti-Chaos? Is he real, or simply imaginatory) i wouldnt put it past GeeDubs to do something with him.
Post by: Fanofgaming on November 17, 2016, 04:34:55 pm
Post by: umiman on November 17, 2016, 04:37:09 pm
I'm really excited for this expansion. According to the store page, each Elf settlement in the Athel Loren can have 10 buildings -- the building tree (ba dum tss) must be pretty extensive for each settlement to have so many slots, right?It's probably because they can't really build anything outside of it, though they can conquer any settlement.
Post by: Tack on November 17, 2016, 04:42:53 pm
Having to choose between the best buildings and the best troops?
I build the best buildings to GET the best troops.
Post by: Fanofgaming on November 17, 2016, 04:43:57 pm
Yeah, but like, 10. That's just so many buildings. Jeez.I'm really excited for this expansion. According to the store page, each Elf settlement in the Athel Loren can have 10 buildings -- the building tree (ba dum tss) must be pretty extensive for each settlement to have so many slots, right?It's probably because they can't really build anything outside of it, though they can conquer any settlement.
Post by: umiman on November 17, 2016, 04:48:41 pm
I'm not very excited about the Amber mechanic.Depending on which lord you choose, you can either recruit elven units without amber cost or all others without amber cost.
Having to choose between the best buildings and the best troops?
I build the best buildings to GET the best troops.
I think it's pretty good personally, as it means your starting LL choice matters a lot more for these guys. Also according to the description, apparently these two subfactions don't even like each other that much any more. So maybe they have to bribe each other to join or something.
Though I'm also sure within like... a day... there will be a mod to make amber super abundant or something.
I should also point out that this faction also has the different starting location for which lord you choose like their previous DLC. I wish they'd do it for every single LL.
----
LordPorkins:
Look at this way. At least now you can pound the puny elves into submission and you don't even have to buy the DLC to do that.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 17, 2016, 04:50:35 pm
Post by: Tack on November 17, 2016, 04:51:46 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on November 17, 2016, 08:03:19 pm
According to this article, the wood elves are as brittle as you'd expect. Moving quickly, firing while moving and hitting hard but dying easily and lacking staying power. Sounds fun but also a bit frustrating having to keep your units moving and away from the enemy. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/11/17/total-war-warhammers-wood-elves-like-to-shoot-and-run/#more-413527)
This also adds the lores of Shadow and Life which is nice.
I wonder how the amber system will change when new lands are added. Will you be able to find it in Ulthuan or Lustria?
Post by: Kazagarth on November 17, 2016, 08:20:18 pm
And it looks like they've really taken a lot of time with this faction, especially compared to Beastmen (who are a lot of fun to play, just missing a lot of actual content).
How in-depth they are making Wood Elves is probably why they delayed it so long, and had to move DLC releases out of order from what was initially leaked.
Post by: Tack on November 17, 2016, 10:45:00 pm
You raze the settlement and get the option to make trading post, recruitment cheap-maker or replenisher.
Post by: umiman on November 17, 2016, 10:47:36 pm
According to this article, the wood elves are as brittle as you'd expect. Moving quickly, firing while moving and hitting hard but dying easily and lacking staying power. Sounds fun but also a bit frustrating having to keep your units moving and away from the enemy. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/11/17/total-war-warhammers-wood-elves-like-to-shoot-and-run/#more-413527)Gotta love RPS.
Long detailed article about stuff. Comments full of "WHY NO WOMEN IN MAH WARHAMMERZ!!!!".
Post by: Mech#4 on November 17, 2016, 11:20:23 pm
According to this article, the wood elves are as brittle as you'd expect. Moving quickly, firing while moving and hitting hard but dying easily and lacking staying power. Sounds fun but also a bit frustrating having to keep your units moving and away from the enemy. (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2016/11/17/total-war-warhammers-wood-elves-like-to-shoot-and-run/#more-413527)Gotta love RPS.
Long detailed article about stuff. Comments full of "WHY NO WOMEN IN MAH WARHAMMERZ!!!!".
Out of all the factions, the elven races are the most varied with male/female militia and various lords and heroes of both. The Spellsinger looks neat with the glowing hair, floating off the ground and the wardancers with their large polearms are also well done. The model work in Warhammer: Total War really is very well done.
Here's a video showing some footage of a quest battle between the Wood Elves and the Beastmen. Also has a shot of Morghur the Master of Skulls. He's the guy with the large dreadlocks with skulls woven in and the canvas headcage thingie. People are wondering to what degree he's going to be a lord, whether a new one or similar to Boris Todbringer from the Beastmen campaign (unique model but basic lord abilities). (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9M33Idbm5k)
I wonder, reading about Orion dying in winter and being reborn in spring, whether that'll appear in the game? It might be similar to the wild hunt event buffs as having a lord disappear and reappear would be a bit inconvenient.
Post by: Neonivek on November 17, 2016, 11:53:50 pm
Quote
Long detailed article about stuff. Comments full of "WHY NO WOMEN IN MAH WARHAMMERZ!!!!".
There is no actual reason. While one could argue "because of sexism existing within the setting" there pretty much isn't any... No woman in the setting who wanted to accomplish something was ever hindered by her gender :P
Post by: Tack on November 18, 2016, 08:34:58 am
The only reason Vlad von Carstein got into power was because Isabella Drakenhof as a woman wasn't allowed to be an elector count.
Of course then it was love at first sight and etc.
Post by: umiman on November 18, 2016, 01:27:18 pm
Anyway, I remember playing it many years ago and it certainly felt quite unfinished and spartan back then. Now it seems a lot better but even after playing a few hours I just kept feeling like something was wrong with it. The clunky outdated Medieval 2 UI. The shitty controls.
Then after yet another battle where my horde of craptastic goblin slaves drove back the Rohirrim I figured out what was going on.
They did the same nonsense as that Darthmod garbage where they extended the battles WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too long and nobody ever routs. Why the hell are my goblin slaves not running after a single charge from horsemen? Why do these battles between peasant armies take years to resolve? Why are my Uruk-Hai archers able to shoot across the map? Who came up with this idiotic balancing? If LotR battles took this long in the books, there would be 12 books in the series just of "and the snaga archers battled against the mightiest of Gondor for 8 hours before they all died bravely to the last goblin even though they were all slaves and were archers with no armour facing off an elite regiment". If I were to guess why this is happening, it's probably because you start with all your heroes in the campaign and they all have insane stats, making units have crazy amounts of morale.
That being said there was a lot of love being poured into this mod. The models are great (for Medieval 2) and unlike modern Total Wars, here you can easily field 20,000 troops in a single battle with no lag. You also have all the trolls, treants, mumakil, Sauron himself, actually all the heroes come to think of it, etc. I had one particularly amusing moment where my entire army was stuck fighting against Saruman for about 20 minutes before he died. Just Saruman himself. And it's not like Saruman could kill multiple units at a time, so it was just 20 minutes of him slowly killing one man at a time before he fell.
-----
I would recommend it for people looking to recreate LotR battles though. It is quite fun, though the battles drag on forever, which is fine if that's what you want. Also the autoresolve is completely broken in this one, so don't even bother trying to do that.
Here's an example video of what it's like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yzpj-sVQIWw
Post by: Persus13 on November 18, 2016, 02:02:14 pm
Second the recommendation though.
Post by: umiman on November 18, 2016, 02:05:57 pm
What difficulty do you play at and do you have any submods? Because playing vanilla third age with regular difficulty its pretty easy for me to rout troops.The campaign mocks you with a dialogue box if you play on anything except very hard, so that's what I did. Maybe I shouldn't.
Second the recommendation though.
But I should mention I don't really have that problem in custom battles.
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2016, 02:13:01 pm
Sort of...
The only reason Vlad von Carstein got into power was because Isabella Drakenhof as a woman wasn't allowed to be an elector count.
Of course then it was love at first sight and etc.
She just didn't want it hard enough.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 21, 2016, 08:37:44 pm
Post by: Tack on November 21, 2016, 11:44:50 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on November 22, 2016, 09:40:51 am
The character sheet for Orion has been uploaded, showing off some of his abilities as well as buffs he gives to armies. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Orion)
Post by: Mech#4 on November 24, 2016, 08:37:36 am
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/187680/todays-stream-breakdown/p1)
- Unicorns are available. I would assume as a mount choice for lords and mages.
- Shadow Dances for Wardancers. Woven Mist and Whirling Death, possibly passive abilities.
- Various types of outposts for Wood Elves. Apparently one type reduces corruption.
- Only Wood Elves can settle in Athel Loren.
- Different seasons in Athel Loren in the mini campaign. I think in the lore the forest has different sections in permanent states of winter/spring/summer/autumn.
- Waystalker hero has homing arrows on top of fire whilst hidden and stalk.
- The monster units can be recruited by Durthu without an Amber cost (Dryads, Treemen, Forest Dragon. The reverse for elven units is true for Orion.
Some other big information was that harpies are being added as FLC for the Beastmen, alongside Morghur being playable in the main campaign if you own the Beastmen DLC (Still being present in the campaign if you don't own the DLC).
Also, apparently Morghur starts in Nordland and can turn enemy units into Chaos Spawns.
Vampire Counts will gain access to the lore of Shadow. From reading this'll be a lore on vampires.
I would assume that the Empire will also be getting the wizards for the lores of Life and Shadow.
If you wish to watch the stream, it is available on the Total War Twitch channel. (https://www.twitch.tv/totalwarofficial)
Edit: The character ability sheet for Durthu has been put up. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/xy/o940ttcripqr.png)
Post by: Wiles on November 24, 2016, 10:32:29 am
Some other big information was that harpies are being added as FLC for the Beastmen, alongside Morghur being playable in the main campaign if you own the Beastmen DLC (Still being present in the campaign if you don't own the DLC).
Also, apparently Morghur starts in Nordland and can turn friendly units into Chaos Spawns.
Morghur turns enemy units into chaos spawn, not friendly ones. I'm assuming it works a bit like raise dead for the vampires.
Post by: Teneb on November 24, 2016, 10:54:43 am
I would assume that the Empire will also be getting the wizards for the lores of Life and Shadow.It'd make no sense for them not to. They should also add shadow sorcerers for WoC and life damsels for Bretonnia, but that last one may end up only appearing next year with the rest of the Bret roster.
Post by: LordPorkins on November 24, 2016, 11:19:57 am
Post by: Wiles on November 24, 2016, 04:28:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 24, 2016, 05:28:23 pm
Does the AI ever try to break sieges without a supporting army? I've besieged and encircled provinces against armies that were of similar size or larger than my own and they never try to break out. The only time I've seen them try to break a siege is when they bring in a second army.I have. It happens more often on higher difficulties, but it'll try to break the siege with their garrison if it thinks it will win. The main problem with the AI in the game is that it will only ever do anything aggressive if it thinks it can win on autoresolve.
Post by: Kazagarth on November 25, 2016, 11:09:47 pm
Gonna be the epic tree guy? Or the less epic, but still epic tree guy? ;P
:P
Orion or tree guy?
It kinda makes sense playing Orion first, because it IS the wood elf faction. So its really about wood elves. But the tree guy looks so cool and I can pretend I'm playing the Ents from Lord of the Rings.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 26, 2016, 12:50:39 am
An article covering Amber has been put up on their wiki. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/In_Search_Of_Amber)
Also, there is now a short main campaign video showing off Athel Loren, Orion's character skills, the research tree, outposts and so on. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/187784/realm-of-the-wood-elves-campaign-lets-play/p1)
Post by: umiman on November 26, 2016, 01:52:27 pm
The amount of value in this pack is pretty staggering.
I hope it's the direction they take in the future.
Post by: Wiles on November 27, 2016, 02:43:12 am
Any tips for fighting Chaos in general? I am having a hell of a time because I am being attacked by the Varg, the Norscans as well as the armies of Chaos all at the same time. I have three full strength armies but the enemy are razing my provinces faster than I can pick them off. And when I do pick some of them off they are back with more full stacks while I'm dealing with the others.
Post by: umiman on November 27, 2016, 03:41:58 am
I am fighting Chaos for the first time (playing as the Vampire Counts) and I quickly realised that they aren't push-overs like the Empire. I managed to catch one of their armies with three of mine. I expected it to be a fairly easy victory but it ended up a lot closer than I would have liked. The problem was that when my reinforcements showed up all they had with them were their lowest tier of troops. All my cavalry and monster units that weren't part of the main attacking army were held in reserve. Is there any way influence which units show up first?I think the reinforcing armies come in by order of what they were in the campaign map, from left to right. I think, anyway.
Any tips for fighting Chaos in general? I am having a hell of a time because I am being attacked by the Varg, the Norscans as well as the armies of Chaos all at the same time. I have three full strength armies but the enemy are razing my provinces faster than I can pick them off. And when I do pick some of them off they are back with more full stacks while I'm dealing with the others.
Advice for fighting Chaos as Vampire Counts:
1. Ignore the horse skirmishers. They don't do shit to you. They're almost completely worthless and are there as a distraction. You can easily rout them with your bats if you even wanted to waste time doing that.
2. Bring lots of Blood Knights. Chaos has lots and lots of monsters. Blood Knights are like... VC's only option for dealing with them outside of a Terrorgheist. Also Blood Knights are one of the best cavalry in the game so they're great at obliterating the enemy's rear.
3. When in doubt, bring zombies. VC is all about a gigantic horde of worthless crap supported by some of the best units in the game. So just throw garbage at Chaos while you flank them with some elite units. If you're wondering what "elite units" mean for VC, it means Crypt Horrors, their heroes, Terrorgheist, Cairn Wraiths, etc.
4. You can kinda ignore all the skeletons, Grave Guard, etc. They're pretty okay against other factions but against guys like Dwarfs and Chaos who have uber-tier infantry with shittonnes of armour... you're really just better off throwing zombies at them.
5. Make liberal use of your heal spell. Use it all the time.
6. Don't get into a slugfest against Chaos. They will win. Besides, VC is all about flanking and rear charges anyway, so make good use of that. If you don't know what that means, it means throw zombies at them from the front and smash them from the rear.
7. Bats and wolves are good. Don't disregard them just because they are cheap. Since it's campaign, the bats and wolves actually become really powerful after you put some research into them. They're great for dealing with the horse skirmishers and rear charges. Chaos also has fairly weak air power, so you can use your bats to dominate the sky.
8. VC can make disposable armies pretty easily. You can throw a random lord and a few dozen cheapo units into an army and just keep suiciding them into the enemy. It really doesn't cost you all that much. Chaos can't heal too easily in VC lands so keep that in mind as you whittle them down. Also an army of cheapo units will usually just completely rip up the Varg and all those useless marauder scum.
9. VC's vampire lords, Manfred, and Vlad are easily the strongest units in the game. Make liberal use of them and feel free to throw them into insane numbers. Though if you put Manfred on his dragon mount, be aware he loses a lot of his survivability in exchange for significantly higher damage output and mobility.
10. Chaos Chosen are immune to knockback (e.g: from cavalry or your monsters). However, this means because of how the game's magic is set up, they take absurd amounts of damage from vortex spells. The Purple Sun of Xerus really, really fucks them up bad.
11. Lastly, remember you are literally an army of the dead. You have no excuse for not having enough units. You literally summon units out of the ground. Just throw zombies at your problem until it's resolved.
Post by: Coffeespoons on November 27, 2016, 02:35:59 pm
Post by: Tack on November 27, 2016, 02:53:50 pm
Post by: Wiles on November 27, 2016, 03:00:56 pm
Part of my problem was army composition like you mentioned. I had 3 full armies but they had a lot of skeletons because I only needed to add some monsters and a bit of cavalry to take on the Empire. Almost every battle was super easy until I ran into the Chaos armies in the late game.
Post by: Persus13 on November 27, 2016, 04:11:31 pm
Still waiting to pick up the base game. Anyone found it discounted during this week of mad sales?Its on sale for 10% off at Bundlestars and they have a code that gives you an extra 11% off everything. Also, this page (https://isthereanydeal.com/#/page:game/info?plain=totalwarwarhammer) is your friend.
Post by: umiman on November 27, 2016, 04:22:18 pm
It's... interesting. It's also strangely difficult because of how you're kinda limited to savage orcs unless you want to pay a lot for the other things. I never really found savage orcs to be particularly good in the first place so this is certainly challenging.
Hell, I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to do against Dwarfs.
Also I have noticed a significant problem when you don't have DLC. The AI do have them. And they make liberal and gratuitous use of them. It's hard enough using savage orcs against high tier Dwarf units. It's even more insane when they're all max rank elite super units every single time. Also right now the Dwarfs have four almost invincible LLs tromping around which blows my mind. (And four invincible ghost agents)
At least the Beastmen like me.
---
Edit: I'm not complaining. This is actually really fun.
Post by: Tack on November 27, 2016, 09:01:50 pm
At least they could be slightly harder to earn.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 27, 2016, 09:41:42 pm
Post by: umiman on November 27, 2016, 10:19:21 pm
I cornered the Dwarfs to the SE part of the map where they only had 3 settlements left. This was after a gruelling 140 turn campaign where I had to beat them back one invincible army at a time.
At the end, they cheatspawned all four of their super lords with full stacks of ultra elite regiments of renown units. So here I am, with my two shitty savage orc armies against double our number in the elitest of elite units. What the fuck.
Oh and to make matters worse? Archaon arrived in Blackfire Pass to burn everything I have from the north. That one might have been my own fault as I used a mod to increase the number of Chaos Wastes tribes. They kinda burned everything to the ground north of the Badlands.
Lessons for next time: Kill Dwarfs ASAP. Also get more units that aren't just savage orc boyz.
Post by: Tack on November 28, 2016, 01:05:26 am
Might be your best dwarf killers right there
But whether it's chosen or stunties it's basically black orcs or go home.
Post by: umiman on November 28, 2016, 04:14:33 pm
I think savage Orc boar boyz are armor piercing?Yeah, I tried the campaign again after I lost the first one and beelined the boar boyz.
Might be your best dwarf killers right there
But whether it's chosen or stunties it's basically black orcs or go home.
Then I just put 7 - 8 units of boars / chariots in my armies, almost no ranged, and the rest is just bigguns.
However, what I really did to make my life easier against the stunties is to slaughter their Southern allies ASAP before they could confederate everyone. The problem with them is that if you let them build up their settlements (I use some mods to enable Tier 4 settlements as well as significantly better garrisons) they will just steamroll you and you as savage orcs can't attack their holdings since you will die before you even reach the walls due to no armour.
Also apparently only the main faction can call in Regiments of Renown. All the subfactions don't get shit, which makes me pretty happy.
-------------
I also just played the mission against the Soopa Squigs. That's pretty hilarious there, not to mention the panic when they come for you.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 29, 2016, 07:46:52 am
This latter point mentions that they seem to be pulling ideas from the lore for new units to add to these factions, running them past Games Workshop first. Good news for Bretonnia who, comparing their in game roster to their rulebook, aren't missing much aside from a few cavalry and infantry types.
Post by: Teneb on November 29, 2016, 09:12:31 am
EDIT: And now they've followed me deep into Kislev heedless of the heavy attrition they're being hit with. Silly indeed.
Post by: Tack on November 29, 2016, 11:29:56 am
You're the life of this thread and most of the reason why all of my friends know anything about upcoming stuff.
Gotta say though if skaven don't get added to the old world I'll be super annoyed, not least because until they DO add it they just make that whole section of the map inaccessible just like with the wood elves.
Post by: Kazagarth on November 30, 2016, 01:16:15 am
The russian leak may have been initially accurate, but they said only three factions per the two major expansions. Instead there will four races for each expansion.
On top of that, I very very highly doubt they'll stop releasing the mini-dlcs they are making once they release the expansions. That gives them a lot of extra income, be dumb to stop that. That leaves the door open to a larger amount of races than I originally thought there'd be for Warhammer.
There is of course mods that spruce up a lot of the races, like one for border princes and what not. While they are just mods, so don't entirely count...they add a lot too.
Then their next historical game I'm really looking forward to knowing what era its in. I bet its a world war era like the article says, because hearts of iron IV came out and total wars share the same historic eras as the paradox epic strategies. And its a major era they haven't done.
Post by: umiman on November 30, 2016, 01:38:16 am
Ever since they added Beastmen I have yet to see them survive beyond the first Chaos incursion.
I've also never seen the Northern Dwarfs survive either.
Post by: Tack on November 30, 2016, 02:24:05 am
Post by: Andres on November 30, 2016, 06:03:46 am
Post by: Mech#4 on November 30, 2016, 06:25:06 am
Speaking of which, a short video of the Spellsingers showing some of their sync kills with magic. (https://www.instagram.com/p/BNZcN6rAMiT/)
I've played a bit with the mod that expands the Tilia, Estalia and Border Princes army lists. Playing as Tilia it did quite a good job considering it's not working with much. These factions don't have the technology of the Empire nor the territory to expand into so 2 armies was my limit for quite a long while. Dealing with the many monsterous units like trolls and giants is a big worry as you have so few answers. (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708051537)
There is another mod that expands the northern dwarfs army list. It makes them more melee focused that might make them a bit more survivable but lorewise I believe it's a toss up whether they're still around or not. (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=765204760&searchtext=)
(To actually play these factions, you'll need another mod that unlocks all factions as playable.)
I have noticed the Empire struggling a bit to expand. I mean, there's nothing too wrong with them staying in Reikland until a larger threat like Chaos starts to make them confederate but I've sometimes seem them not deal with the Empire rebels for a good long while. Also, if another faction like Marienburg starts poaching their provinces I think they end up in a bit of a diplomatic stalemate (we want our territory but you're too powerful to take on).
Post by: Kazagarth on November 30, 2016, 03:01:17 pm
What's this game like? Is it good?
I like it a lot. When Wood Elves are put in (which is in a week or so), the game will be vastly better. Without Wood Elves, the game feels rather lacking. Not just because its missing Elves, but because there isn't that many factions to choose from so it kinda feels empty. However Wood Elves will improve that, A LOT. Not only does it add an entire new race (instead of more greenskins/dwarf stuff that are both races already in the game), but it adds a LOT of life to the world.
Mods do fix things up a lot. Like the above post the factions already in (but not playable) get spruced up a lot and made playable. So that adds more factions to play as and more fleshed out factions, which is awesome. But I haven't played in quite a while, as I've been waiting for something major (like wood elves) to actually be put in.
Plus, the game has a ton of awesome mods besides new factions, if you are into that.
Post by: umiman on November 30, 2016, 03:49:00 pm
The way I see it, all the Wood Elf DLC will add is a new place for me to burn to the ground. And you don't even need to buy the DLC to do that.
I'll copy paste my Steam review here:
Quote
This is easily one of the best Total Wars out there, probably on par with past gems like Fall of the Samurai or Medieval 2. However, that's not without its caveats.
1. Sieges suck ♥♥♥♥.
2. DLC sucks super ♥♥♥♥.
But that's basically it. Provided you can stand those two things, this is probably the most visceral, most beautiful, most engaging Total War to date.
Oh, and don't buy this if you don't like fireballs and giant and dragons and stuff like that.
Post by: Kazagarth on November 30, 2016, 04:06:12 pm
But, despite each faction being unique (which is awesome), the game feels too limited with how few races there are. DLCs/mods/expansions of course improve and will improve that.
I did play over 400 hours though, so there is that. So it may just be because I got tired of what there was to play as. I never actually played with mods, since I prefer a vanilla experience. But I know if I did, I'd get the ones that unlocked and improved different factions since they add a lot of different guys you can play as. That improve things a lot.
Post by: Teneb on November 30, 2016, 05:35:00 pm
Nah, nothing to do with Elves. I'd personally rather have skaven or maybe even lizardmen. But all the game has is dwarves, greenskins, which aren't personally my thing. Vampire counts are awesome, chaos is pretty cool. Though mods unlocking factions do spruce up things A LOT.You need more WAAAGH! in your life.
Post by: umiman on November 30, 2016, 05:39:59 pm
I mean, it just gets so stale and boring after 400 hours of playing it without mods. It's not worth it really, especially since it's filled with stupid things like Dwarfs and Orcs. Who even wants those really.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kazagarth on November 30, 2016, 08:56:16 pm
There we go Andres. As we can see, you shouldn't buy this game.
I mean, it just gets so stale and boring after 400 hours of playing it without mods. It's not worth it really, especially since it's filled with stupid things like Dwarfs and Orcs. Who even wants those really.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I saw the spoiler :)
400 hours is pretty good for any game. So it WAS worth the money.
And actually, I completely forgot beastmen. That was an awesome addition to the game.
Really, I'm only ranting because when I play the warhammer mod for medieval 2, there are tons of factions and tons of land. So when I go back to warhammer, I'm left with a small selection. One day warhammer total war will have all that that is in the mod, and way more. I'm just really excited to see warhammer total war develop to be even better than the warhammer medieval 2 mod.
Having said that. 400 hours is totally worth it, and that isn't even with mods that add more time for games. And I'm gonna get all the unlockable faction mods and start playing again :) so yeah totally worth the money. Even gonna start up again. Just wish I could go into the future to get all the awesome stuff they plan to add :P
Post by: Mech#4 on November 30, 2016, 09:40:54 pm
I will note that you do not need to buy the DLC to play against it. Every faction/unit that is added through DLC is available for the A.I. to use so when the Wood Elves are released you will be able to fight against them even if you do not own the DLC.
In other stuff: Another Twitch stream was done recently covering the Wood Elves main campaign. A continuation of the other one they did within the last week or so. (https://www.twitch.tv/totalwarofficial/v/104341606)
Post by: Tack on November 30, 2016, 09:59:12 pm
However I would say that they definitely need to come out before the brettonian DLC, because otherwise Brettonia is so segregated from the rest of the map that they'll never have anything to fear all game.
Is another good reason to put in Skavenblight, too, at least as an NPC faction. NPC Orks only seem to invade as far as the border princes, so Tilea and Milaglino (until the arrival of the beastmen) were some of the most powerful races in the late game.
Post by: Teneb on December 01, 2016, 01:28:26 pm
All I need to win now is to actually wipe out the Empire.
EDIT: Took a peek into Bretonnia. It's split between Couronne and Estalia.
EDIT 2: Finished the campaign. While checking out the achievement list, I noticed that wood elf DLC achievements are already in the list, for those interested.
Post by: thvaz on December 01, 2016, 06:59:30 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 01, 2016, 07:52:41 pm
Playing as the beastman one of the start locations is near Estalia, kida far from Reikland, but when I start a empire campaign they are are always in Reikland in the first 5 turns. I don't like how the game focus things on the player. I would prefer if things were more dynamic.I think it's because of Khazrak's diplomacy trait, Hates Empire or something along those lines. I suspect it makes him prioritize making a beeline for KF & Friends.
Post by: thvaz on December 01, 2016, 08:57:17 pm
Playing as the beastman one of the start locations is near Estalia, kida far from Reikland, but when I start a empire campaign they are are always in Reikland in the first 5 turns. I don't like how the game focus things on the player. I would prefer if things were more dynamic.I think it's because of Khazrak's diplomacy trait, Hates Empire or something along those lines. I suspect it makes him prioritize making a beeline for KF & Friends.
Makes sense, but this beeline makes him easy prey to Empire players.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 01, 2016, 09:08:02 pm
A battle gameplay video for the Wood Elves has been uploaded showcasing a battle between the Wood Elves and the Empire on the defensive map for the Oak of Ages. It shows off the great eagle mount for the lord, great eagles on their own as well as the hawk riders and forest dragon. There's also the wardancers, wildwood rangers, treekin and wildriders. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188071/wood-elves-battle-gameplay-preview)
I like the butterfly pattern on the forest dragon wings and the animation for the treekin are very nicely done as well. The map looks neat though, as a few people are mentioning on the official forums, not as heavily forested as you'd expect. I did think it would be more like the Beastmen forest path maps with gigantic trees all over rather than an open glade though those beastmen maps are rather taxing computer-wise.
Post by: umiman on December 01, 2016, 09:14:17 pm
Post by: Kazagarth on December 01, 2016, 09:20:41 pm
Yes, Khazrak in most of my games moves from Estalia, through Bretonnia to the mountain pass into Reikland, usually getting defeated around here and rendered rather ineffective or outright defeated completely. I kind of think beastmen should be able to create lords more easily as losing a battle sets them back so much.
A battle gameplay video for the Wood Elves has been uploaded showcasing a battle between the Wood Elves and the Empire on the defensive map for the Oak of Ages. It shows off the great eagle mount for the lord, great eagles on their own as well as the hawk riders and forest dragon. There's also the wardancers, wildwood rangers, treekin and wildriders. (http://www.bay12forums.com/discussion/188071/wood-elves-battle-gameplay-preview)
I like the butterfly pattern on the forest dragon wings and the animation for the treekin are very nicely done as well. The map looks neat though, as a few people are mentioning on the official forums, not as heavily forested as you'd expect. I did think it would be more like the Beastmen forest path maps with gigantic trees all over rather than an open glade though those beastmen maps are rather taxing computer-wise.
Here is a direct youtube link too, for those who don't want to use vimeo:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeaB1RCNLoU
They look like a lot of fun! The units look great too, and love the tree ents. Those archers, having an army of those could really wreck things up (which IS what wood elves are known for anyway in warhammer)
Thanks for posting all the information on Warhammer Mech :) Really appreciate it.
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2016, 02:21:24 pm
Post by: umiman on December 02, 2016, 03:02:57 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on December 02, 2016, 04:55:31 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 02, 2016, 08:18:34 pm
It's interesting that the life wizard has spells to regenerate health but seemingly not to resurrect units. Apparently Regrowth in the tabletop resurrected units but it makes a nice difference between these lores and the lore of Vampires.
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2016, 08:33:01 pm
It's interesting that the life wizard has spells to regenerate health but seemingly not to resurrect units. Apparently Regrowth in the tabletop resurrected units but it makes a nice difference between these lores and the lore of Vampires.It might revive. I think it has the same wording as its equivalent in the vamp lore.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 05, 2016, 06:45:11 pm
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188230/wood-elves-lore-insights-and-patch-notes)
The patch notes are also up for the coming update 5 on their wiki. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_5)
Spoiler: Notes of interest in the patch (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on December 06, 2016, 07:46:10 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 06, 2016, 08:36:01 pm
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188292/the-red-duke)
Apparently Middenheim is also playable, at least in custom battles, lead by Boris Todbringer. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188282/middenland-and-new-bm-subfaction-in-mp-battles)
It's nice that they're doing something with these smaller lords. They're named and known figures but their subfactions aren't really different enough to be really different from what's already available. Their different start positions would allow for more game variety though.
Edit:
Also: A video has been put up showcasing the Glade Lord and Forest Dragon mount. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188269/introducing-the-glade-lord-and-forest-dragon)
There's also plans for a few streams over the coming days.
"Wednesday (3PM GMT) will feature the much-anticipated Wood Elves in battle, Thursday (2PM GMT) will showcase the Mini-Campaign and Friday (3PM GMT) will feature multiplayer! We’ll have a different developer every day to give us a creator’s view into the new DLC. See you then: twitch.tv/totalwarofficial". (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188280/wood-elves-launch-week-dev-livestreams)
A few YouTubers have also been putting up videos of gameplay footage. I don't follow any of them in particular so perhaps someone who does could link a video that shows off a good amount of content?
Post by: Kazagarth on December 06, 2016, 09:05:12 pm
(HForHavoc) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unq5gHfuqtU
this guy (warrior of sparta) also seems pretty popular for total war, I found he posted the video on reddit. Haven't watched it yet though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StXN77XKf2w
And this one is over an hour long. Haven't seen it yet either. Seems popular though on reddit.
(lionheartx10) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1oZP80kP9M
Then there are some reddit entires for Twitch. But not my thing, so maybe if someone watches someone on Twitch can post.
Also as a heads up. Auto resolve might be changed overall. Either wood elves suck at auto resolve, or they changed it for everyone to make auto resolve nerved. If so, huge kudos...I hope not a bug and its an actual thing. Don't see a point playing total war auto resolving everything, and pwning without much work. Total war is all about battles. Otherwise might as well play civilization or a paradox strategy game with mods attached. So hopefully they "fixed" autoresolve to not be so overpowered. At least make it like medieval 2.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 06, 2016, 09:53:11 pm
In the coming patch there has been a few changes to auto-resolve. The main one being that weaker units will take more casualties over higher-tier, more expensive units. I believe this is because people wre finding some of the smaller units like trolls were taking a larger hit in auto-resolve then, say, a unit of goblins. I think it's like, the same number of casualties/damage will occur just it's skewed so weaker units take more than stronger units.
Here's a thread with some screenshots to show it a bit. Units are lost, but they were badly injured and low tier ones. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188283/the-new-autoresolve)
Post by: Kazagarth on December 06, 2016, 10:37:27 pm
Thanks for the videos.
In the coming patch there has been a few changes to auto-resolve. The main one being that weaker units will take more casualties over higher-tier, more expensive units. I believe this is because people wre finding some of the smaller units like trolls were taking a larger hit in auto-resolve then, say, a unit of goblins. I think it's like, the same number of casualties/damage will occur just it's skewed so weaker units take more than stronger units.
Here's a thread with some screenshots to show it a bit. Units are lost, but they were badly injured and low tier ones. (http://www.bay12forums.com/discussion/188283/the-new-autoresolve)
Yeah, reminds me of how medieval 2 worked (at least somewhat, don't remember 100% of the actual mechanic). It should balance auto resolve a lot. It should be still an option to avoid long drawn out junk fights. But the way I see a lot of videos from let's players, they just own everything when they would have probably lost the battle if they didn't auto resolve. While this may not entirely solve that, not sure. I think it will balance out auto resolve quite a bit more.
Post by: Teneb on December 07, 2016, 07:04:37 am
Now, where is my boy Krell?
EDIT:
(https://i.redditmedia.com/Xmk_YZ3C00-2GRtSrsx-glTlfHLEZ_oIhDLuYRyLm14.png?w=391&s=b571daad0d4a711fa981454d0c552d70)
GRAB THE BOOK, LADS.
Post by: Tack on December 07, 2016, 07:34:50 am
Post by: lordcooper on December 07, 2016, 08:06:49 am
Why is Orion 'k with being a beastman?
While most definitely not a Beastman Orion sure isn't your average elf. (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Orion) He's sort of the physical embodiment of Kurnous, God of the Hunt and father of all elves. A wood elf is chosen at the start of each year to take on is mantle, then sacrificed at midwinter. Which kinda makes his inclusion in this game a bit bizarre unless we're meant to accept that an entire campaign takes place in under a year.
While I suppose you could say he looks a little Beastmannish around the hoofs, he's pretty much the polar opposite. They are humans corrupted and mutated by Chaos, with only a primitive and malevolent intelligence and who are intent on destroying, well, everything. He is the manifestation of an Elven deity on a path of self sacrifice and primarily focused on the defence of his homeland.
Post by: Tack on December 07, 2016, 11:02:34 am
"Oh, I know midwinter is here but the End Times just happened so why not let's put it off for a little bit until this all blows over"
Post by: Persus13 on December 07, 2016, 11:21:14 am
The steam page mentions him dying each winter and being reborn in the spring, so it sounds like there will be some mechanic similar to the moon thing for beastmen for Orion.Why is Orion 'k with being a beastman?
While most definitely not a Beastman Orion sure isn't your average elf. (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Orion) He's sort of the physical embodiment of Kurnous, God of the Hunt and father of all elves. A wood elf is chosen at the start of each year to take on is mantle, then sacrificed at midwinter. Which kinda makes his inclusion in this game a bit bizarre unless we're meant to accept that an entire campaign takes place in under a year.
Post by: Tack on December 07, 2016, 01:10:21 pm
Quote from: Wiki
He is immortal, but his existence is irrevocably tied to the seasons. Thus does he pass willingly into his own funeral pyre each midwinter, only to be reborn into thunderous life on the first day of spring. Each year, on the eve of the vernal equinox, the Wild Riders selects a young prince who will bear the mantle of Orion for the coming year. This chosen one is led to the Oak of Ages and given over to Ariel’s keeping.Watching Wood Elf cinematic like 'Wow, that guy must be an important dude'
There, she works the miracle of rebirth, sculpting her lost husband anew from the chosen one’s flesh and Kurnous’ spirit. On the following morning, the chosen one emerges from the Oak’s embrace, a mortal Elf no longer, but reborn as Orion, god-king of Athel Loren.
Turns out he's a sacrificial lamb
Post by: Tack on December 07, 2016, 01:20:55 pm
(https://i.redditmedia.com/Xmk_YZ3C00-2GRtSrsx-glTlfHLEZ_oIhDLuYRyLm14.png?w=391&s=b571daad0d4a711fa981454d0c552d70)
GRAB THE BOOK, LADS.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on December 07, 2016, 01:34:54 pm
I must say.... they REALLY went a lot out into the spells this time. You know how almost every single damage spell in the game just has a fancy mist coming out showing it's working?
Both these guys defy that by actually having shit happen. The Lore of Life for example actually conjures a tree when using that tree spell, and more trees when using that other tree spell.
It's pretty cool.
Post by: Teneb on December 07, 2016, 04:22:05 pm
There's a video out showcasing the FLC this time, including the two wizards: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOlAKqmy0JcYou forgot the most important part: Pit of Shades is a STATIC vortex. As in, one that does not move. Meaning it is automatically the best vortex.
I must say.... they REALLY went a lot out into the spells this time. You know how almost every single damage spell in the game just has a fancy mist coming out showing it's working?
Both these guys defy that by actually having shit happen. The Lore of Life for example actually conjures a tree when using that tree spell, and more trees when using that other tree spell.
It's pretty cool.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 07, 2016, 08:59:11 pm
Also: Though people may know this already, I felt it was worth mentioning as I hadn't caught it at the time.
"In February 2017 we will be releasing a new edition of Total War: WARHAMMER with selected high street retailers. The big news is that it comes with a new playable race – Bretonnia. Why should you care if you already own Total War: WARHAMMER? Because you can download the Bretonnia Race Pack for free then too!
A contrast of lowly peasant masses and proud knightly orders, the feudal kingdom of Bretonnia features a host of powerful units and is lead into battle by a choice of three playable Legendary Lords; King Louen Leoncoeur, Alberic of Bordeleaux and the Fay Enchantress. More details about this iconic Warhammer Fantasy Battles Race will be revealed in the new year."
So Bretonnia will be coming with three Legendary Lords; Louen, Alberic and the Fay Enchantress.
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2016, 10:59:30 am
Post by: LordPorkins on December 08, 2016, 11:00:58 am
I DO COCCAAAAAAIINNEE
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2016, 11:14:10 am
Post by: Wiles on December 08, 2016, 11:29:46 am
Post by: umiman on December 08, 2016, 01:54:47 pm
Post by: Tack on December 08, 2016, 02:04:32 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2016, 02:06:29 pm
Post by: Tack on December 08, 2016, 02:09:43 pm
I'm currently about to co-op Elves/Spirits with a friend, and I'm wondering if it's an incredibly bad idea.
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2016, 03:19:58 pm
Post by: umiman on December 08, 2016, 03:43:14 pm
The Lore of Life guy can do plenty of damage just as much as he heals, and the Shadows guy makes everyone move around at hyper speed. Also that guy's damage spells are absurd.
I think if I had to pick between the two I'd go for the Lore of Life, simply because if you just have him as your only wizard, you can spam your spells and have his passive constantly heal everyone on the map. The only problem with him is that his damage spells have pretty small AOEs but I think that can either be good or bad depending on your circumstance.
The hyper speed movement from Shadows is pretty amazing too though. And that pendulum spell is bonkers. He's kinda all about slowing and speeding up people so it's kinda fun to play with as you can really fuck with enemy cavalry.
----
I would imagine Life would be pretty lackluster for Wood Elfs.
This is because WE have almost no armour for their units, making their HP just their HP basically. However, for Empire, they have armour on top of HP, making the heals significantly more efficient. I would imagine for WE you'd rather kill your enemies faster as your units don't live long enough in melee to be healed in the first place. Unless they were the trees. Do trees have armour?
I'd be very frigging amused if Chaos had this. Can you imagine how hilariously OP it would be? Trying to take down Chosen only for them to heal up.
Post by: Teneb on December 08, 2016, 04:32:12 pm
I'd be very frigging amused if Chaos had this. Can you imagine how hilariously OP it would be? Trying to take down Chosen only for them to heal up.Chaos is supposed to have Shadows (though no Life). Unfortunately, they only added the Lore of Shadows to the VCs. Beastmen also didn't get Shadows, despite having them in the TT.
Post by: umiman on December 08, 2016, 05:07:11 pm
VC get shadows? Which unit gets it?I'd be very frigging amused if Chaos had this. Can you imagine how hilariously OP it would be? Trying to take down Chosen only for them to heal up.Chaos is supposed to have Shadows (though no Life). Unfortunately, they only added the Lore of Shadows to the VCs. Beastmen also didn't get Shadows, despite having them in the TT.
Edit: Ooh, I see, they get a regular vampire which has it. That's pretty interesting, as they've nerfed Death so much I don't even bother with it any more.
Post by: Tack on December 08, 2016, 05:40:41 pm
Past lvl 2 building tree you need outside sources of Amber to get anything done.
Which can be pretty ruthless to try and get.
As soon as I started the game everybody declared against me just like that
Having similar issues with the mini-campaign.
I think the rule of thumb is: Elves are dicks. Declare war on them before they can do it to you.
The gigantic garrison sizes in their villages don't help though, especially when you're playing on HV/Legendary with the massive cash boost.
Post by: Wiles on December 09, 2016, 12:11:16 pm
Post by: umiman on December 09, 2016, 01:10:31 pm
Quote
Isha the Mother and Anath Raema Technologies are early in the tech tree for a reason . First one practically allows you to ignore the growth gating and the second one will allow you to fight those wandering beastmen with just your garrisons.
Quest battles grant 3 amber upon completing them. That’s 9 amber that no-one can ever take away from you, so maybe for the Wood Elves it’s a good idea to finish the quests ;).
Post by: Tack on December 09, 2016, 04:30:26 pm
I wish I'd known that!
Am definitely finding co-OP campaigns difficult with a lack of Amber sharing.
Also, is anyone else finding waywatchers to be thoroughly unimpressive?
Edit:
If anyone was wondering what The Red Duke has going for him, it's a single duellist ability
El Syf:
Type: Hex
Duration: 38s
Cannot target if: Unit is not lord or Hero
Effects:
-48% Speed
-22 Physical Resistance
-60 Melee Defense
The so-called "Northern Sword" fears no duel; anyone who dares confront him will surely meet their death!
Considering he beats Vlad in attack & damage stats, that's pretty cool.
Post by: umiman on December 13, 2016, 03:59:10 pm
Small sale for the DLC, but meh.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 13, 2016, 09:12:11 pm
One of the bigger changes is +20 range to all Wood Elf units.
Also:
- Asrai Lookouts (Outposts) will now generate 50 income per turn.
- Adjusted the penalties when running at an Amber deficit:
> 0 to -10 Amber: Reduced rate of replenishment.
> -11 to -20 Amber: No replenishment, but do not suffer from attrition.
> -21 to -99 Amber: No replenishment and suffer attrition (no change from before).
I have to remark, in my game I haven't run at more than -1 or -2 amber deficit for a turn. Though if it is a reduced rate of replenishment building forest spirit units and making up the replenishment difference with lord abilities will be interesting to try.
Overall I have been having fun with the Wood Elves. I have been playing on normal (since higher difficulties gives stat bonues to the A.I. units). My campaign has so far involved sticking to Athel Loren and taking some nearby provinces. Come the chaos invasion I only started attacking them when they got close to Altdorf, using my large treasury from razing a few settlements to recolonize all the razed territory.
I've found Hawk Riders to be very useful at dealing with Hellcannons. Two units take them out nicely and can also deal with, or distract, enemy skirmish cavalry. Shield of Thorns is a very nice spell to buff your army with before combat and the net/root ability Orion has is great for dealing with enemy lords (something I've found the Wood Elves have a bit of difficulty dealing with, especially in melee).
Post by: Tack on December 14, 2016, 03:44:18 am
However now I'd like to say I'm pretty good at using them now, so the buffs seem a little unnecessary, and frankly the tiny bit of extra range is going to destroy me playing as other factions trying to fight them.
They love their skirmish mode on glade guard.
Was amused by:
Quote
Waywatcher is costed too high/underpowered.
We’d agree, and in the hotfix we have reduced the unit by 100 gold to a new price of: 1100. The unit has also been given: +20 missile range and +4 Armour Piercing Missile Damage.
Quote
Wood Elf archers are the worst in the game, when they should be the best!
Quarrellers, for example, will outshoot them toe to toe, but if you are toe to toe with Quarrellers something has gone very wrong already.
Having said all that, changes include:
+20m Range (All archer units and characters)
+4 Missile Damage (Glade Guard/Glade Guard [Hagbane Tips]/Deepwood Scouts)
Me going "holy crap Waywatchers now have 200 range? Hallelujah they're worth the 300 upkeep now"
Turns out they got those buffs instead... so basically the exact same buffs as every other archer unit.
Post by: Teneb on December 14, 2016, 07:57:04 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 14, 2016, 08:06:28 pm
Yes, as Teneb mentioned: There's also a holiday thing going on with the 12 days of Festag. It's nothing major but if you want a few backgrounds, avatars, gifs and short stories they're available if you sign in with your Total War forum account. They recently changed the account/website system so some of the stuff is stored on an account dashboard. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189016/third-day-of-festag-gift-info#latest)
One topic I was reading brought me to thinking about the dwarfs and their magical resistance. The dwarf units have 25% magical resistance, I believe to represent their tabletop ability of being able to dispel magic more easily than other factions. I don't think in the tabletop they have any real extra defense against magical damage, just this greater dispel chance. Thus I was thinking that maybe the dwarfs would be better suited to have their lords lower the amount of magic points available to the enemy during a battle rather than the magical resistance. Say if the enemy had 30 magic points, fighting dwarfs could reduce this by 50%, like what hero mages do when deployed in enemy zones.
Part of this was because some people were noting that since the Wood Elves have a good number of units with magical attacks, against dwarfs this was stymied somewhat, particually with the ranged magic attacks (Starfire arrows is it?)
Post by: Tack on December 14, 2016, 08:27:46 pm
But yeah I only just realized that things like doomcannons and most heroes will be doing less damage to dwarves.
Although most woodland spirit units and feral orcs have a bunch of physical resist, so I guess that's 'Balance'.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 14, 2016, 08:57:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 14, 2016, 09:12:25 pm
Post by: umiman on December 14, 2016, 10:16:05 pm
Well I know runelords can eventually stat into some pretty heavy magic damping.Doomcannons really, REALLY own Dwarves though. Like, super bad.
But yeah I only just realized that things like doomcannons and most heroes will be doing less damage to dwarves.
Although most woodland spirit units and feral orcs have a bunch of physical resist, so I guess that's 'Balance'.
Especially on ultra unit size, Doomcannons rack up hundreds of kills against Dwarves.
But yeah, apparently Wood Elves do really poorly against the Dawi because of the magic resistance.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 15, 2016, 01:07:23 am
I think another thing with the magic resistance was a lot of the higher tier wood elf units deal magical damage so to be more effective against dwarfs you need lower tier units. I haven't had too much trouble against dwarfs personally. They're very slow and quarrelers, while nasty, can be tied up with Wild Riders or flanking wardancers or the like. I tend to make armies with about 6 units of Glade Guard as my front line with 3 units of Eternal Guard for cavalry deterrence, charging some of the glade guard into melee while others flank to fire at the rear of enemy units.
Post by: thvaz on December 17, 2016, 01:04:28 pm
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101822 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101822)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101260 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101260)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101357 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101357)
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101571 (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=820101571)
Anyone has similar problems?
Post by: Teneb on December 17, 2016, 01:15:35 pm
Post by: Wiles on December 17, 2016, 01:26:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 17, 2016, 03:07:51 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 17, 2016, 08:36:34 pm
4th day was a "Making of" video for the Wood Elves, showing some of the things they did during development. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8_Z2Bm0CjE)
5h day was some pieces of art apparently to be used as Bretonnia event images in game. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Fifth_Day_of_Festag_2016)
6th day is a Bretonnia themed loading screen. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Fifth_Day_of_Festag_2016)
Post by: Moddan on December 20, 2016, 06:43:20 am
Post by: Tack on December 20, 2016, 11:26:10 am
I mean, on the map they've been buffhammered from 'adequate' to 'downright OP', but I tend to shed elves so quickly when I'm autoing.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 20, 2016, 10:07:19 pm
8th day of Festag: Screenshot of Bretonnia including the Grail Reliquae. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/images/0/0a/Big_battle02_small.jpg) (I don't think there's anything more notable in the screenshot)
9th day of Festag: Win a mini greenhouse and some seeds. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Ninth_Day_of_Festag_2016)
Post by: Tack on December 20, 2016, 10:12:50 pm
Not even animated... just a skeleton flopping around.
9th day of Festag: Win a mini greenhouse and some seeds. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Ninth_Day_of_Festag_2016)It gives you a personal link (I assume for more tickets). You might as well post yours what with you being our Honored Newsharer.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 20, 2016, 11:03:51 pm
On the competition; I suppse, I have no interest in winning a plant. It might be some left over stuff from before the Wood Elves were released.
http://woobox.com/dd5pkv
Post by: lordcooper on December 21, 2016, 03:45:58 am
9th day of Festag: Win a mini greenhouse and some seeds. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Ninth_Day_of_Festag_2016)
I genuinely thought you were taking the piss before clicking the link.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 22, 2016, 08:11:59 pm
10 Day of Festag: Win a High King Edition of Warhammer: Total War. Including all the DLC so far. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Tenth_Day_of_Festag_2016)
11th Day of Festag: A nice portrait of the Fay Enchantress for Bretonnia. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Eleventh_Day_of_Festag_2016) A spellcaster character who, from what I'm reading (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Fay_Enchantress), has unique spells as well as a potion item that has different effects.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on December 23, 2016, 05:56:32 pm
Yeah, the grail reliquae is an odd unit. Fanatical peasants follow grail knights around, picking up anything the knight discards. If the grail knight dies they pick up the corpse and carry it around like a portable shrine to the lady. In the screenshot you'll note some of the soldiers have broken swords, the one behind and to the right of the paladin has a sword with a crude plate bolting two halves together. I imagine the unit will be like empire flagellants but with a slightly better charge due to them puppeting the dead knight along.
On the competition; I suppse, I have no interest in winning a plant. It might be some left over stuff from before the Wood Elves were released.
http://woobox.com/dd5pkv
Just to note, the knight isn't always dead when they decide to strap him in. :P
Post by: Teneb on December 23, 2016, 06:03:54 pm
Nah, the knight is always dead. It's just that sometimes the peasants get a bit impatient and hasten the process.Yeah, the grail reliquae is an odd unit. Fanatical peasants follow grail knights around, picking up anything the knight discards. If the grail knight dies they pick up the corpse and carry it around like a portable shrine to the lady. In the screenshot you'll note some of the soldiers have broken swords, the one behind and to the right of the paladin has a sword with a crude plate bolting two halves together. I imagine the unit will be like empire flagellants but with a slightly better charge due to them puppeting the dead knight along.Just to note, the knight isn't always dead when they decide to strap him in. :P
On the competition; I suppse, I have no interest in winning a plant. It might be some left over stuff from before the Wood Elves were released.
http://woobox.com/dd5pkv
Post by: Mech#4 on December 23, 2016, 08:11:58 pm
Post by: umiman on December 23, 2016, 08:20:30 pm
12th Day of Festag: A screenshot of King Louen Leoncoeur and a short animation video. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Twelfth_Day_of_Festag_2016) I'm assuming the model has been updated but I haven't played enough with Bretonnia to pick out any differences.the current model has Leoncoeur's eyes doing crazy things.
Post by: Teneb on December 23, 2016, 08:43:55 pm
He's seen some shit.12th Day of Festag: A screenshot of King Louen Leoncoeur and a short animation video. (http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Twelfth_Day_of_Festag_2016) I'm assuming the model has been updated but I haven't played enough with Bretonnia to pick out any differences.the current model has Leoncoeur's eyes doing crazy things.
Post by: umiman on December 29, 2016, 06:05:11 pm
Attila is on sale for a pretty hefty discount so I picked it up. I originally ignored it because I despise frigging horse archers and a game about just horse archers makes me want to throw up. However, I've been playing it for the past few days and well...
It's really good. I think it's one of the best Total Wars and I'd put it at better than Warhammer. Maybe less than Shogun 2 but not by much. It's basically what Rome 2 should have been.
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I mean, first you've got the soundtrack.
Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dh9HI4eudR8
Don't tell me that's not good. Rome 2's was incredibly forgettable. Even Warhammer's pretty boring.
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Two, the sieges in this are easily the best in the series. Yep, better than Medieval 2. Mostly because the AI actually uses combined arms in this now unlike how they didn't do shit in Rome 2.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Let me tell you a story about what I consider my favorite, most memorable battle I've ever played in a Total War game.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This shit does not happen in Warhammer.
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The graphics are significantly better in Attila than in Rome 2. It's like a completely different generation of game.
Shadows are better, the maps are better, the designs are better, there are actual female soldiers interspersed among certain units like hunters and brigands and such, textures are significantly better, etc.
Here's a comparison screenshot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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There are civilians running around on the map. Yes. Civilians. Just like in Rome 1's settlement viewer. Except you can kill them now and they panic in the face of the enemy.
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You can set entire settlements alight. It's amazing. Just frigging torch the entire city in the battle. The fire effects in Attila are just great in general as you ignite entire forests, fields, and so on. It's not just cosmetic too, as doing damage to a settlement like this affects the defenders very dramatically, but also makes it way more expensive to repair after.
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There are so many different unit types. It's like playing with Radious mod or something.
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There are problems with it though. The climate change mechanic is stupid and I highly recommend you mod it somehow. There's still a few bugs such as pikes disappearing after you order them to pike wall (a mod fixes this too). Things like that. The AI still cheats like a motherfucker, but that's to be expected.
However, all in all, if you haven't gotten it already, I highly recommend you get Attila while it's cheap as balls. I was really quite surprised at how good it is.
Post by: Teneb on December 29, 2016, 06:49:01 pm
There are civilians running around on the map. Yes. Civilians. Just like in Rome 1's settlement viewer. Except you can kill them now and they panic in the face of the enemy.Civilians can actually get lucky and kill one of the invading soldiers. It is rare, but it happens.
The climate change mechanic is stupid and I highly recommend you mod it somehow.Climate change was one of the Big Things in that time period, and one of the main reasons the whole clusterfuck that was the Great Migrations happened.
One thing you forgot to mention is that Attila brings back meaningful and involved family mechanics like in Rome 1 and Medieval 2. And now having your internal faction hold too much power can lead to problems.
The game, however, is probably one of the harder total wars. Sure feels apocalyptic though, which is nice.
Post by: umiman on December 29, 2016, 07:13:58 pm
I wouldn't mind the climate change thing if it made sense, but the way they implemented it is pretty frigging dumb.There are civilians running around on the map. Yes. Civilians. Just like in Rome 1's settlement viewer. Except you can kill them now and they panic in the face of the enemy.Civilians can actually get lucky and kill one of the invading soldiers. It is rare, but it happens.The climate change mechanic is stupid and I highly recommend you mod it somehow.Climate change was one of the Big Things in that time period, and one of the main reasons the whole clusterfuck that was the Great Migrations happened.
One thing you forgot to mention is that Attila brings back meaningful and involved family mechanics like in Rome 1 and Medieval 2. And now having your internal faction hold too much power can lead to problems.
The game, however, is probably one of the harder total wars. Sure feels apocalyptic though, which is nice.
I mean, by the end of it, the entire world is basically the Sahara Desert in terms of fertility and it never recovers. There's literally no way in game to revert or improve the conditions, which makes no sense whatsoever. I understand why they did it, as they want to force you and the AI into conflict, but it just breaks my suspension of disbelief too much.
I recommend the mods that let you build irrigation or at least increase the fertility level by 1 so you're not stuck in the Fallout universe but at least you still have a reason to not stay in the less fertile areas.
Or if you like it... then you can just leave it. The power of modding.
But yeah, it's pretty frigging hard and the mood is great. Yup, I forgot about the family trees because that part is so good too. They got so much right with this. It actually makes me even more annoyed that sieges in Warhammer are so stupid.
Post by: Majestic7 on December 30, 2016, 02:46:43 am
1) AI concentrates on player beyond anything else, which gets a tad ridiculous. Playing as Beastmen, I've been hunted by a major enemy stack through five realms. Meanwhile, the enemy realm is getting razed by their local enemies. :D Playing as vampires, I had Chaos focus exclusively on me, forgetting everyone else. Not only is it foolish artificial difficulty, it breaks the immersion.
2) Wood Elves rape everything. They've destroyed Altdorf and wrecked the entire Empire in both of my games. I thought they were supposed to be isolationists and stuff? Why haven't CA learned how to make an okay campaign AI?
3) Most of offensive magic seems useless. Lore of Metal seems extra useless.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 30, 2016, 11:51:57 am
Buffs are better than debuffs which are better than damaging spells. As I understand it Fantasy generally had such potent magic that it was foolish not to cast the big Vortex spells when you could, since several of them could nuke entire units.
Post by: umiman on December 30, 2016, 03:24:40 pm
For example, vortex spells are brutal against units that are immune to knock back such as chosen and Giants and cavalry as units are immune to damage while ragdolling around.
And not all spells are created equal. The lore of shadows's vortexes are significantly better and more damaging than others.
The greenskins's buff spells like 'ere we go are like 100x better than the lore of metal.
Also sometimes you want the knock back of a spell more than you want the damage. Knock back destroys momentum and unit coherence which can easily change a fight. But the game doesn't tell you this and you may be left wondering why a push spell even exists.
Even the various "fireball" spells are all different from one another.
One of the more annoying things is how the game won't tell you what the damage numbers and type of damage is for certain spells. For example, there are damage spells that do really crappy damage as a base cast but when overcasted, do huge amounts of armor piercing damage.
Stuff like that. It's just unintuitive and excessively complicated.
Post by: Neonivek on December 30, 2016, 03:32:54 pm
But rather they show a sort of carelessness in the design process. a sort of "they won't mind" mentality.
Post by: Tack on January 01, 2017, 12:31:56 am
-Attila snip-Damn. I never bought it because I was... content? With Rome II and saw Attila as an overpriced expansion.
Turns out it's got all the stuff Rome 2 needed in the base game.
Maybe next time it's ridiculously price cut I'll get it. I already am quite bored with the tiny complement of maps TW:W has (although that's my only true gripe still), and fighting in settlements again could be fun.
Post by: umiman on January 01, 2017, 06:39:00 am
Yup, that was basically the exact same thought I had, except with the "oh god it's just Rome 2 with more horse archers".-Attila snip-Damn. I never bought it because I was... content? With Rome II and saw Attila as an overpriced expansion.
Turns out it's got all the stuff Rome 2 needed in the base game.
Turns out it's more like Rome 2: Xtreme Legends Return of the Horses Bugaloo Hyper EX Tournament Edition.
Also, Charlemagne is basically Medieval 3 more or less. Or the early parts of it.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 01, 2017, 08:21:12 am
The medieval and Lord of the Rings mods being made for Attila are worth keeping an eye on though.
Post by: umiman on January 01, 2017, 03:55:13 pm
However, I think Attila has a lack of factions which can give you a simple campaign. Hordes require careful relocation and choosing of battles, the western and eastern roman empires have a lot of enemies, low moral and high income deficits so the only "vanilla-as-possible" factions are some of the eastern ones without any DLC. There's not many factions that give you a low stress campaign.Yup. If you don't have the DLC, this game is basically halved. Which is why I only recommend buying it when on a big sale or something like previously (or right now? I dunno).
On another note, Total War Warhammer is apparently in Steam's "platinum" ranked most-sold games of 2016. It's also #3 on Angry Joe's top games of 2016 even though he never reviewed it.
Pretty happy for CA.
I just wish they'd fucking do something about the DLC prices. They never go on sale and they're all so expensive!
Post by: Wiles on January 01, 2017, 05:28:58 pm
Post by: Teneb on January 01, 2017, 05:34:06 pm
I am thinking of picking up Atilla before the sale ends. Are there any of the DLCs I should avoid?Not really. Viking is the weakest of them, but that's it. If you are short on money, you'll want Empires of the Sand at the very least, and maybe Charlemagne.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 19, 2017, 09:04:50 pm
He's got unique item quests and abilities being a powerful melee fighter.
Traits and abilities
Grombrindal has a number of traits and abilities which make him a unique Legendary Lord.
Grombrindal can assume the aspect and attendant benefits of one of the illustrious Dwarf deities, Grimnir, Valaya and Grungni, through his unique Living Ancestor dilemma
- The greatest campaign reinforcement range of any Lord
- Increased Underway evasion chance
- His unique battle ability, ‘Grimnir Has no Fear’, is an augment which bestows increased melee attack, melee defence, vigour and the Unbreakable trait.
- His unique battle ability ‘Flash Bomb’ temporarily blinds enemies and slows their advance.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 01, 2017, 08:05:47 pm
Called "Terry" it is available in beta as of now. It allows the creation of battle maps for use in multiplayer and skirmish battles complete with A.I. hints, environment models, terraforming and the like. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190598/were-introducing-battle-map-editing-find-out-more-here/p1)
Sadly, though understandable, this cannot be used to add maps to the main campaign maps. This is due to the different way the campaign map accesses battle maps as well as other reasons.
I look forward to seeing what maps people are able to create. One issue I've seen pop up a number of times is people wishing for battle maps with more going on in them. Some of the later released maps, like the warpstone mine map, certainly are better in this regard from the usual hills and forests. Personally I would like a battle map covering farmland with stone walls, roads and a small village similar to setups I used to play on with tabletop Warhammer.
Post by: Teneb on February 01, 2017, 08:41:00 pm
Sadly, though understandable, this cannot be used to add maps to the main campaign maps. This is due to the different way the campaign map accesses battle maps as well as other reasons.Actually, it can be used on the campaign: quest battles can be created with them and tied to the campaign. Sure, you'll only be able to fight them once per run, but it's still pretty nice.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 02, 2017, 09:54:28 pm
Creative Assembly put up a video showcasing the battle map tool in action. It seems like it's quite easy to use with a large selection of objects and effects to play around with. From the look of it walls can be placed as well so we might get people making some more varied siege maps. It'd be neat to see something like an Empire city with Chaos corruption creating large cracks in the ground and spiked altars to appear. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190626/battle-map-editor-new-video)
Post by: Neonivek on February 02, 2017, 10:17:54 pm
Sooo much in this game depends on size. With some people being terrible BECAUSE of their size, some spells working better on bigger units, and all that jazz. If it was intended behavior that would be fine, but you know that it wasn't... entirely intended.
The other is just my opinion but the stunning mechanics need some work.
Post by: Wiles on February 03, 2017, 02:40:52 pm
Post by: Retropunch on February 03, 2017, 04:55:44 pm
Total War: Warhammer is the featured game for March's Humble monthly bundle. Pretty deep discount for a game that is fairly recent!
I've been wanting to get this, but I'm guessing the humble monthly bundle just includes the base game and not all the DLC? If so, how worth it is it without the DLC?
As in, I don't NEED this at the moment - am I better off waiting till there's a good deal (maybe not quite as good) on the whole lot or just get this and pick and choose which DLC I like the look of?
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 03, 2017, 05:22:39 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on February 03, 2017, 05:22:49 pm
Total War: Warhammer is the featured game for March's Humble monthly bundle. Pretty deep discount for a game that is fairly recent!
I bought it like a month ago for like $60... Ouch...
Post by: umiman on February 03, 2017, 05:29:33 pm
The game is absolutely worth it even without DLC, especially with the free goodies they've been putting in with patches and updates. Go for it.^
Don't be fooled into thinking "oh there's only four races, sounds pretty small".
The four races all play completely different both in terms of battle and campaign. To give an idea of the difference, playing as the Empire is like playing Napoleon Total War. Playing as the Dwarfs is like Fall of the Samurai. Playing as the Greenskins is like Shogun 2. And playing as the Vampires is like playing Dead Rising: Electric Boogaloo.
The DLC do have a lot of stuff in them, but you don't really need them. Besides, you can fight the DLC races and enemies without even owning the DLC. So you can go crazy burning the Elves into the ground.
Also the amount of mods is pretty crazy. You can change up just about anything except the campaign map.
Post by: Teneb on February 03, 2017, 05:44:14 pm
Not to mention, that it will soon be 5 races when Bretonnia is released (for free!). So you can throw Medieval 2 on the list.The game is absolutely worth it even without DLC, especially with the free goodies they've been putting in with patches and updates. Go for it.^
Don't be fooled into thinking "oh there's only four races, sounds pretty small".
The four races all play completely different both in terms of battle and campaign. To give an idea of the difference, playing as the Empire is like playing Napoleon Total War. Playing as the Dwarfs is like Fall of the Samurai. Playing as the Greenskins is like Shogun 2. And playing as the Vampires is like playing Dead Rising: Electric Boogaloo.
The DLC do have a lot of stuff in them, but you don't really need them. Besides, you can fight the DLC races and enemies without even owning the DLC. So you can go crazy burning the Elves into the ground.
Also the amount of mods is pretty crazy. You can change up just about anything except the campaign map.
Post by: Retropunch on February 03, 2017, 05:50:08 pm
Any must have mods that don't change the vanilla experience too much?
Post by: Grim Portent on February 03, 2017, 06:05:53 pm
Awesome! Thanks for the advice - I've gone for it.
Any must have mods that don't change the vanilla experience too much?
Any of the extra skills points for Lords mods is basically necessary. Lords have a ton of potential skills, but normally they only get 29 points over the course of their existence. Some mods double it, some give them an extra 50%, some give them some skills for free, so on and so forth.
At the moment I'm using one that gives them double skill points at level 5 and 10 and every level after that. Makes it actually possible to get some stuff out of two (out of 3-5) upgrade trees, pick up my generic abilities and still invest in some basic utility upgrades. Normally you can get one and half upgrade trees at a stretch.
Nothing else is necessary I'd say, but some of the modded in units are fun. Still holding out for someone who knows how to mod making a generic version of Throgg as a Lord or Hero option for Chaos, at least until/if we ever get the actual thing. If I knew how to mod myself I'd make it, but I looked at how to do it once and started going cross eyed.
Post by: umiman on February 03, 2017, 10:37:09 pm
Also if you don't have the Regiments of Renown DLCs, you might want to get the mod that disables them. The AI just cheatspawns them endlessly which can get kinda annoying as you can obliterate Ungrim's fullstack army only to have him come back a turn later with another fullstack army of the exact same super mercenaries you just killed.
I think it might also be a good idea to get the mod that makes march stance 100% cost as again, the AI can abuse it. For some bizarre reason, the AI get the ability to raze / raid your cities then march stance away while you are forced to stay put when you do the same. This disables this ability of theirs.
On the same vein, I think get the mod that gives all factions a small home region movement bonus. This makes it so there's less goddamn chasing armies around endlessly as before this everyone can kite everyone no problem.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 03, 2017, 11:02:19 pm
"Disabled the Campaign AI's ability to enter "Forced March" stance after razing a settlement. "
(http://wiki.totalwar.com/w/Total_War_WARHAMMER_Update_5)
As for myself, I've been playing with no mods for most of my time. The ones I have played with was one that expanded the Tilia, Estalia and Border Princes unit lists as well as making them playable. (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708051537&searchtext=)
Post by: Teneb on February 06, 2017, 12:34:36 pm
From the picture in that post, looks like one of the units they made up are hyppogryph knights.
Post by: Retropunch on February 06, 2017, 08:46:27 pm
It's got a few wrinkles obviously - I got an incredibly annoying few turns when an ork hero kept on sabotaging me so I could barely move my main hero - obviously it was some sort of RNG madness, but it was just painfully annoying. There was no real reason behind it, I just got a bit stuck for a few turns until they eventually decided to run off. Similarly, sometimes the AI just seems to fluctuate between being painfully inept and masterfully homicidal.
As for mods, I got the home region movement mod and the skill number booster, and it seems a pretty good combo. If anyone's reading who hasn't modded it, I feel they're musts.
The DLC thing is pretty awful - but it's to be expected I suppose. They obviously feel that they've hit the nail on the head with the 'see what you could be playing with!' idea, but it just makes them come off as bigger money-grabbing wankers than usual. Doesn't detract from the fun too much, but it's annoying to click something and then it explode into 'OH THATS DLC IF YOU WANT THAT THEN YOU NEED TO BUY IT LET ME TAKE YOU STRAIGHT TO OUR STORE!'
Post by: Teneb on February 06, 2017, 09:56:33 pm
It's got a few wrinkles obviously - I got an incredibly annoying few turns when an ork hero kept on sabotaging me so I could barely move my main hero - obviously it was some sort of RNG madness, but it was just painfully annoying. There was no real reason behind it, I just got a bit stuck for a few turns until they eventually decided to run off. Similarly, sometimes the AI just seems to fluctuate between being painfully inept and masterfully homicidal.Get the mod that disables hostile AI hero actions. Seriously. Not only is it infuriating, but it actually prevents you from seeing them used in battle against you. AI is far more likely to use them in battle with a mod like that.
Since I'm already talking about mods, I recommend All Tabletop Lords. My modlist is pretty big, but this is one of the few unit mods that I think is very well balanced. There's also pretty much everything made by Cataph. Dude knows how to balance his stuff, and his magic balance feels pretty good to me. Evens out the lores, so Gelt becomes the buffer/debuffer he always deserved to be.
Post by: Retropunch on February 07, 2017, 11:39:29 am
It's got a few wrinkles obviously - I got an incredibly annoying few turns when an ork hero kept on sabotaging me so I could barely move my main hero - obviously it was some sort of RNG madness, but it was just painfully annoying. There was no real reason behind it, I just got a bit stuck for a few turns until they eventually decided to run off. Similarly, sometimes the AI just seems to fluctuate between being painfully inept and masterfully homicidal.Get the mod that disables hostile AI hero actions. Seriously. Not only is it infuriating, but it actually prevents you from seeing them used in battle against you. AI is far more likely to use them in battle with a mod like that.
Since I'm already talking about mods, I recommend All Tabletop Lords. My modlist is pretty big, but this is one of the few unit mods that I think is very well balanced. There's also pretty much everything made by Cataph. Dude knows how to balance his stuff, and his magic balance feels pretty good to me. Evens out the lores, so Gelt becomes the buffer/debuffer he always deserved to be.
Ooh yeah I might go for that - last turn I had about 5 completely pointless enemy actions against me. None of them helped achieved any actual enemy goals, they just marginally slowed down one of my armies which wasn't going anywhere anyway.
Post by: umiman on February 10, 2017, 12:14:11 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tPPLLPZfm4
Holy shit.
Finally.
Sieges.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
Post by: Teneb on February 10, 2017, 12:16:01 pm
Also Make War Not Love (https://www.makewarnotlove.com/) is happening again and it's totally not rigged towards DoW this time, promise!
Post by: umiman on February 10, 2017, 12:21:49 pm
It is a bit unfortunate that the map tool does not support windows 7 though.I'm hoping they make a more intuitive way to replace maps in the campaign.
Also Make War Not Love (https://www.makewarnotlove.com/) is happening again and it's totally not rigged towards DoW this time, promise!
The method they have is a bit wonky, though I have no doubt with this you'll see stuff like "Radious Battle Map Replacer" or something which will do all the work for you.
Also there are some pretty amazing maps as it is.
I played the Karak Kadrin one and it is glorious.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 10, 2017, 12:25:27 pm
Post by: umiman on February 10, 2017, 12:29:19 pm
I'd prefer the Karak Kadrin one if it was a siege battle instead of just a bridge one. I'd love it if the bridge led straight to a gate and walls that you had to break through or climb over.What you can do with the new campaign editor thing is replace the surrounding area of Karak Kadrin with the bridge and have a regular siege for the fortress itself.
Post by: Retropunch on February 12, 2017, 03:25:59 pm
Also Make War Not Love (https://www.makewarnotlove.com/) is happening again and it's totally not rigged towards DoW this time, promise!
Am I right in thinking that this is basically a DLC giveaway?
Post by: Teneb on February 12, 2017, 03:48:09 pm
If it is anything like the others: each game dev team will make a new DLC for each of those games. Whichever of those games completes some arbitrary goal (previously it was playerbase increase, I think, which DoW2 won because the DoW2 playerbase is small) gets that DLC for free. Everyone else will just release that DLC later for a price just like any regular DLC.Also Make War Not Love (https://www.makewarnotlove.com/) is happening again and it's totally not rigged towards DoW this time, promise!
Am I right in thinking that this is basically a DLC giveaway?
Post by: Persus13 on February 12, 2017, 04:07:32 pm
Post by: Tack on February 12, 2017, 07:49:57 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on February 12, 2017, 10:56:26 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 13, 2017, 07:55:38 am
No need to wait...there is a good chance they will keep doing this in the future especially after the initial popularity of DoW III slows downThey do it every year at St. Valentine's day, so...
Post by: Mech#4 on February 14, 2017, 10:54:23 am
Isabella von Cartstein will be a Legendary Lord who, along with the Blood Chalice of Bathori (a healing item in the tabletop), will gain bonuses when in a battle alongside Vlad von Carstein.
(https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191077/make-war-not-love-grand-prize-introducing-isabella-von-carstein/p1)
In the thread, something was mentioned about being able to use some lords within a battle together.
Grace_CA: "Vlad can join her in battle and she'll gain buffs from it, just as currently Balthasar Gelt can show up on the battle field for Karl Franz. This is not a new mechanic. "
I am a bit confused on this. Is this just refering to reinforcing armies or does Balthasar Gelt do something different. I don't think he can join Karl Franz's army.
Post by: Burnt Pies on February 14, 2017, 12:03:39 pm
Still, even more reason to love the VCs, if they're getting one of the first female LLs. And they're at 5 total! (Though Kemmler is pretty forgettable, like most magelords)
Post by: Teneb on February 14, 2017, 12:05:40 pm
Only mechanic I can think of is reinforcing armies.Poor Kemmler can't catch a break. And it does seem that the Fay Enchantress won't be the first female LL. Huh. Too bad Isabella's not a Legendary Hero, though, would love to see a system like that.
Still, even more reason to love the VCs, if they're getting one of the first female LLs. And they're at 5 total! (Though Kemmler is pretty forgettable, like most magelords)
I guess we'll see her as paid content later if this doesn't win.
Post by: umiman on February 14, 2017, 01:45:11 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on February 14, 2017, 09:53:12 pm
Though they have no plans for it at the moment, this doesn't rule out the possibility of Creative Assembly adding Legendary Heroes later on. Some characters, like Deathmaster Snikch for the Skaven, to my mind wouldn't really work in a "leading-an-army" context, being all sneaky assassin type.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 15, 2017, 02:02:26 am
edit: I'll just leave that typo. Bestmen Horde sounds awesome.
Post by: Teneb on February 15, 2017, 01:09:23 pm
link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lja4TmwwAmQ&t=0s)
Isabella herself will focus on buffing the hero vampires, as well as flying units and monsters.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 15, 2017, 02:26:58 pm
It was revealed earlier today that Vlad (and Isabella) will be leading a "new" faction (the banner will change, at least): Scwartzhaften.
link (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lja4TmwwAmQ&t=0s)
Isabella herself will focus on buffing the hero vampires, as well as flying units and monsters.
So she'll bring the hammer to match Vlad's vanguard infantry anvil.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 15, 2017, 09:22:53 pm
Isabella von Carstein also gives a unique building in Drakenhof that allows vampire heroes to be recruited at rank 1 settlement with 70% recruitment discount. It's called "Mausoleum on the Mad Count" which is most likely referring to Isabella's father but... Konrad?
Post by: Teneb on February 15, 2017, 09:26:23 pm
Apparently, the new faction will be able to confederate with the main Vampire Counts faction, though not with Templehof. I don't think anything has been mentioned on confederating with Mousillon.It's a reference to her dad. He was called Count Otto von Drak, the Mad Count. (Not to be confused with Marius Leitdorf of Averland, the OTHER mad count, who is very much alive in-game).
Isabella von Carstein also gives a unique building in Drakenhof that allows vampire heroes to be recruited at rank 1 settlement with 70% recruitment discount. It's called "Mausoleum on the Mad Count" which is most likely referring to Isabella's father but... Konrad?
Konrad was just an edgelord who got ragey because he was magic-impaired.
Post by: Tack on February 15, 2017, 10:21:35 pm
Post by: umiman on February 17, 2017, 11:22:25 am
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/5uitoq/for_those_who_might_not_know_what_the_rewards_for/
Quote
This is from: https://www.pcgamesn.com/make-war-not-love-4-announced
16th February – SEGA vs Faction: Voters will decide which SEGA game the community manager from each faction will go head to head with a SEGA champion in. Winning the bout will earn the faction 50 points and Company of Heroes 2: Southern Fronts DLC, plus a mystery Mega Drive game.
17th February – Art Attack: For this challenge, each faction will create their own piece of MWNL inspired artwork to share on SEGA’s Facebook channel. Points go to the piece of art you, and we here at SEGA, like the most, along with Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War 2: Retribution – Ultramarines faction pack, plus a mystery Mega Drive game.
18th February – Stream if you wanna go faster: The factions will run their own live-stream segments for their respective game, with views and community engagement determining where the points go this round. To the victor goes copies of Endless Legend: Echoes of Auriga, plus another mystery Mega Drive game.
19th February – SEGA Showdown: The final round will see the two highest scoring factions enter a duel, playing each other’s games live at the PC Gamer Weekender within the SEGA Zone at Kensington Olympia. The winner of the round will secure the last batch of points for their side, and the Blood Pack DLC for all relevant Total War titles (excl. Total War: WARHAMMER), plus a mystery Mega Drive game.
And the final one:
All of this will culminate in two armies going through to a head-to-head final in the SEGA zone at the PC Gamer weekender in London. The winner on the day will be crowned champion, unlocking some very special DLC for their faction.
Pretty frigging garbage.
Post by: Tack on February 17, 2017, 12:33:53 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 17, 2017, 12:35:18 pm
Post by: Retropunch on February 17, 2017, 03:18:44 pm
If you were wondering what the prizes were for MLNW... here they are:
-snip-
Pretty frigging garbage.
That's offensively bad. They're giving DLC for random games (not the one you've actually voted for - they gave TW voters a CoH DLC) in the hopes that you'll pick up the others - just baiting at it's worst. Sure, it's all free, but it sort of seems so overtly money grabby that it's worse somehow.
I really hate myself for supporting Sega by buying TW - I hate their business model more than pretty much any other company. Yet I'm absolutely loving playing it - it makes me the ultimate hypocrite really, but I knew that the humble bundle was pretty much the cheapest it'd be for a year or two.
I've drawn the line at the DLC though - I'm just not buying it no matter what. If I can at least show them (in the tiniest, tiniest way) that the DLC model is fucking awful then I'm at least slightly redeeming myself.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 17, 2017, 03:26:06 pm
If you were wondering what the prizes were for MLNW... here they are:
-snip-
Pretty frigging garbage.
That's offensively bad. They're giving DLC for random games (not the one you've actually voted for - they gave TW voters a CoH DLC) in the hopes that you'll pick up the others - just baiting at it's worst. Sure, it's all free, but it sort of seems so overtly money grabby that it's worse somehow.
I really hate myself for supporting Sega by buying TW - I hate their business model more than pretty much any other company. Yet I'm absolutely loving playing it - it makes me the ultimate hypocrite really, but I knew that the humble bundle was pretty much the cheapest it'd be for a year or two.
I've drawn the line at the DLC though - I'm just not buying it no matter what. If I can at least show them (in the tiniest, tiniest way) that the DLC model is fucking awful then I'm at least slightly redeeming myself.
Hating a company's business model while enjoying their games is hardly hypocritical. Hypocrisy would be espousing hatred for their business model while doing it yourself.
You just enjoy the games while also hating the money grubbing decisions made by the people who make them.
Post by: Retropunch on February 17, 2017, 03:48:10 pm
-snip-
Hating a company's business model while enjoying their games is hardly hypocritical. Hypocrisy would be espousing hatred for their business model while doing it yourself.
You just enjoy the games while also hating the money grubbing decisions made by the people who make them.
[/quote]
Thanks Grim Portent :)
I just guess that I'm so vehemently opposed to that business model that I thought I'd just not give them my custom, but that humble bundle deal was pretty incredible!
Any one have any hints on growing your economy as vampire counts? I'm always unsure what infrastructure buildings to go for (other than balefire). My economy always seems a bit on the low side, and I can't get any trade deals going either.
Post by: Criptfeind on February 17, 2017, 03:53:34 pm
Edit: Er, although I've not played for a pretty long time. So my advice there might be outdated or something, idk.
Post by: Retropunch on February 17, 2017, 03:56:48 pm
Although vampire counts don't have any good base economic building, they can still build ports, so if you go and take over the boarder princes (and then bretonnia) you'll be rolling in cash (also leaving the empire alive and strongish gives you a nice shield for some of the chaos armies when they decide to burn down the south.)
Edit: Er, although I've not played for a pretty long time. So my advice there might be outdated or something, idk.
Ahh I'll try going that way - I extended rather too far west and I'm a bit stretched out (which from what I've read, isn't a good way of playing them). I'll try and go south a bit.
Also, has anyone tried the settle anywhere (or whatever it's called - the one that lets you use any settlement) mod? I'm tempted because I find it super annoying that you just arbitrarily can't conquer some bits, but I'm worried it might throw the balance far out of wack.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 17, 2017, 04:30:25 pm
Letting armies conquer any settlement isn't too balance disrupting, the Wood Elves can already do it after all, it just means you'll find different factions in places you wouldn't expect, like Border Princes in the Badlands and Norscans in the Empire.
Post by: Tack on February 17, 2017, 04:35:54 pm
I've drawn the line at the DLC though - I'm just not buying it no matter what. If I can at least show them (in the tiniest, tiniest way) that the DLC model is fucking awful then I'm at least slightly redeeming myself.You have my congratulations and condolences. Whilst they aren't as bad as Paradox with their "Let's arbitrarily break the game and make people pay to return functionality" principle, it's still got to be pretty awful when other factions have game-breaking regiments of renown and extra units that you're not privy to.
Post by: Retropunch on February 17, 2017, 04:45:26 pm
I've drawn the line at the DLC though - I'm just not buying it no matter what. If I can at least show them (in the tiniest, tiniest way) that the DLC model is fucking awful then I'm at least slightly redeeming myself.You have my congratulations and condolences. Whilst they aren't as bad as Paradox with their "Let's arbitrarily break the game and make people pay to return functionality" principle, it's still got to be pretty awful when other factions have game-breaking regiments of renown and extra units that you're not privy to.
Thanks - nothing is quite as bad as Paradox (I went for Stellaris not knowing how broken it is) but this one takes the cake.
There was a VC quest I got early on to build a corpse cart, which is impossible to do without the DLC. That really, really grated on me - I don't want to be hit round the head with it.
Post by: umiman on February 19, 2017, 01:40:05 am
Quote
Damsels are now able to be recruited with the Lore of Life.
Battle Pilgrims are now a psuedo swordsmen unit, arguably better due to Frenzy and their excellent leadership.
Sword Foot Squires (name needs citation) are an underpowered version of the Greatswords and represent potentially the latest tier infantry for Bretonnia.
Questing Knights are greatsword wielding cavalry with excellent armour penetration, but no formations.
Lance Formation adds 50% acceleration and deceleration and roughly 30% more charge speed and bonus though it does reduce your speed by 12% and missile block by 33(?)%. Questing Knights don't get lance formation.
Knight Errants are the new low tier cavalry unit for the Bretonnians, they get Lance Formation.
Knights of the Realm have bonus vs large and Lance Formation.
Grail Knights now have immunity to vigour, bonus vs large, Lance Formation and 20% physical resistance, they are amazing.
Grail Reliquary is a dead Grail Knight lofted by Battle Pilgrims into battle, gives a dramatic increase to leadership and immunity to psychology in the nearby area and perhaps other buffs.
There is a confirmed new Peasant Archer variety that we did not get to see.
Quote
Hey guys, long time lurker.
I just came back from the PCGamerWeekender where TotalWar was showcasing its new Brettonia DLC. Anyway, during the event they showed a video with information on Brettonia in the campaign. They might have already shared most of the info here, but I thought it would not hurt to share.
Here is a list of all the things I remembered:
-3 starting locations: Leon in Brettonia, Alberic in Bordelaux, Fey Enchantress in Carcassone
-Each one seems to start with 2 regions each, a full province representing their territory. A nice change from the start with a single region we've had so far (Poor Empire suffers so much from it)
-Green Knight is a hero, but cannot be recruited. Instead he shows up randomly and stays with your faction for a few turns then is gone.
-2 main recruitment buildings in the 'red' slot for towns that are focused on unlocking knight troops. For peasants, most are recruited from the 'infrastructure' buildings
-Technology tree divided in 2 -> economy and knightly order, delving into one will bring penalties to your campaign related to the other. Invest into only one if you're ok with the penalties, or invest in each in a steady fashion, your call.
-Brettonia is known for having its forests and the nearby mountain infested with orcs, so they get events focused on that, such as a reduction in growth because off-screen orcs raided their lands
-All Brettonia faction are somewhat friendly with each other, so you don't have to go to to war with each other. Diplomacy is meant to be easy with each other and confederation comes later on once you've researched the technology for it.
-If you do go to war with Brettoni factions, the others will not like it one bit. Brettoni civil wars come with penalties, but you can do it anyway if you don't care about them
-New units that were not shown in the stream that I remember: Royal Hypogryph knights, Royal Pegasus knights (better version of regular pegasus knights), variant of Trebuchet that throws magic projectiles blessed by the Lady herself. There might have been more but they were either shown in the stream, or I forgot them
That's most of what I remember if anything else comes to mind I'll add it to the comments.
Edit:
Almost forgot, Brettonia factions get a new bar similar to the grudges for dwarves. This bar represents your chivalrous nature, and the more chilvarous you are, the more it is filled. With each rank of chivalry you attain, you get campaign and battle bonuses.
Edit2:
Brettonia gets access to 3 lores of magic: Heavens, Life, and Beasts.
Post by: Tack on February 19, 2017, 02:33:40 am
Post by: Mech#4 on February 19, 2017, 03:35:54 am
Three different starting locations is also nice. Makes for more campaign variety.
I wonder if the system for blessings is in? Maybe it'll be done like how banners, chaos gifts and runes are done for other factions.
Here's a link to a recent stream event tied with the "Make War Not Love" event. At around 2 hours 42 minutes in there's some footage of Bretonnia vs Greenskins. I haven't looked over it much myself but it does show off some of the new units. (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/122959499)
Post by: Majestic7 on February 19, 2017, 04:29:18 am
Post by: Tack on February 19, 2017, 04:47:34 am
So... no.
Chaos, sure.
Post by: Teneb on February 19, 2017, 08:43:25 am
Quote
Hi guys, I'm not sure if it was streamed, but I just watched CA's presentation on day 2 of the Weekender and I think there was some more info that I've not seen on Reddit yet.
The green Knight: You can chose when he joins you in campaign. You get to summon him once each time you advance a level in Chivalry. Not sure how long he sticks around. In custom battles, he's a "Legendery Hero" so not a lord, but you can only have one of him - he's very expensive and very tanky.
Peasant Archers: Different arrow types are available, fire arrows which stop regening units (Vargulf etc) and poison arrows similar to goblins.
There is a unique peasant economy mechanic. So as you have more peasants in your armies, farms produce less gold. Also, public order isn't a thing, instead there is a "Control mechanic" which functions similarly but I think it resulted in greenskin invasions rather than rebellions.
In the research trees there are pesant and knight trees. The knight tree also has techs which make confederation with other bretonnians easier if you want to avoid the chivalry penalties for civil war.
That's it, I'll comment if I remember anything else!
EDIT: Total War won the Make War Not Love event, so Vlad will get his waifu for free.
Post by: Retropunch on February 19, 2017, 10:34:55 am
EDIT: Total War won the Make War Not Love event, so Vlad will get his waifu for free.
I kinda feel they had to let it win after everyone was complaining how lame it was that there were no TW:W DLC giveaways or offers or anything.
Glad to get it though, this kinda extra content does help make things feel a lot more fleshed out.
Post by: Teneb on February 19, 2017, 10:51:59 am
I dunno. Despite TWW winning the community stuff every day, Sega kept giving free points to everyone else. And today they set a dev that was not good at all to play Company of Heroes 2 against... a pro player.EDIT: Total War won the Make War Not Love event, so Vlad will get his waifu for free.
I kinda feel they had to let it win after everyone was complaining how lame it was that there were no TW:W DLC giveaways or offers or anything.
Glad to get it though, this kinda extra content does help make things feel a lot more fleshed out.
Post by: Persus13 on February 19, 2017, 11:24:52 am
Post by: Tack on February 19, 2017, 11:41:59 am
Really like the peasant economy mechanic though.
Makes it interesting though... so teching into peasants gives you more farming income, which you can sacrifice to raise peasant troops, or speccing into heraldry makes knights more powerful at the expense of farming income.
... Which could be a bit redundant IMO.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 19, 2017, 11:50:53 am
Post by: umiman on February 19, 2017, 12:00:38 pm
Sweet, so we get Isabella and Betonnia for free. Not too bad.
Post by: Teneb on February 19, 2017, 02:08:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2017, 11:22:12 am
Also, one of CA's PR people said that the vampire counts FLC lord (in the FLC array) is Isabella (and that there was a shitstorm inside CA itself because of what would happen if they lost MWNL).
Finally, If you sign up to Total War's dashboard thingy you get Bretonnia 24 hours early (https://dashboard.totalwar.com/auth/login).
Post by: Tack on February 21, 2017, 12:30:16 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 21, 2017, 03:37:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2017, 05:33:59 pm
Thought that a horse kicked someone at 1:25 of the trailer. Then I realized it was a Grail Reliquary.The animations might be best in the game. The front peasant drops-kicks the enemy while the two in the back raise the knight as if it was a horse kicking with the front hooves.
EDIT: Hon hon hon (http://store.steampowered.com/app/534330/) (steam page link)
Post by: Retropunch on February 21, 2017, 07:16:54 pm
Haha could've been hilarious if they did lose MWNL. They'd have this ready-made FLC that apparently isn't allowed to be released XD
Yeah, I really feel they kinda fixed it a little bit - putting out a trailer and whatever for it then not to come out is a bit...well not going to happen really.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 21, 2017, 08:51:48 pm
Reading through the steam page this caught my eye:
"Even today, The Lady will reward those who act with the greatest valour against the most terrible odds. Any Lord and his attendant army who achieve a Heroic Victory in battle will receive The Blessing of The Lady, and will thenceforth receive a Ward Save for future battles. If a unit routs in subsequent battles, it will lose the Blessing for the remainder of the fight, and if the army refuses a battle – choosing to retreat from an attack on the campaign map for example – the army will lose the Blessing. Certain high-tier units, such as Grail Knights, will have the Blessing as a unit trait by default."
Having blessings gained or lost due to winning heroic battles or retreating from battles is an interesting mechanic. It encourages the player to find tough enemies and try to beat them with minimal forces. Also, with all the penalties from fighting other Bretonnian factions, armies will need to be sent quite far away to find strong opponants. It'll also be nice for roleplaying purposes with on-the-wire battles resulting in characters gaining bonuses.
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2017, 09:12:09 pm
A nice trailer, I really like the glow effects of the Green Knight.In addition to this, the lack of territorial requirements for their victory means you can send armies all across the map to fight whatever you consider "bad guys" for honour and the Lady.
Reading through the steam page this caught my eye:
"Even today, The Lady will reward those who act with the greatest valour against the most terrible odds. Any Lord and his attendant army who achieve a Heroic Victory in battle will receive The Blessing of The Lady, and will thenceforth receive a Ward Save for future battles. If a unit routs in subsequent battles, it will lose the Blessing for the remainder of the fight, and if the army refuses a battle – choosing to retreat from an attack on the campaign map for example – the army will lose the Blessing. Certain high-tier units, such as Grail Knights, will have the Blessing as a unit trait by default."
Having blessings gained or lost due to winning heroic battles or retreating from battles is an interesting mechanic. It encourages the player to find tough enemies and try to beat them with minimal forces. Also, with all the penalties from fighting other Bretonnian factions, armies will need to be sent quite far away to find strong opponants. It'll also be nice for roleplaying purposes with on-the-wire battles resulting in characters gaining bonuses.
Post by: Tack on February 21, 2017, 10:50:33 pm
That mechanic really does put an end-timer on the game.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 22, 2017, 01:05:49 am
* Bretonnia with three lords and three starting positions.
* Isabella von Carstein in new starting position with Vlad.
* Old World Edition with patch
* Battle Map Maker update with campaign map tie in functionality.
There's also the "An Old Friend" thing which still hasn't been revealed. People seem to be assuming it'll be a lord, probably for the Empire so Boris Toddbringer or Ludwig Schwarzhelm.
Post by: umiman on February 22, 2017, 01:17:58 am
There are mods out there that replace maps with modded ones.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 22, 2017, 01:54:50 am
There's also the "An Old Friend" thing which still hasn't been revealed. People seem to be assuming it'll be a lord, probably for the Empire so Boris Toddbringer or Ludwig Schwarzhelm.
Maybe it'll finally be Krell.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 22, 2017, 02:01:53 am
I think the campaign map tie in thing is already out.
There are mods out there that replace maps with modded ones.
The one where you colour sections of a campaign map image to designate where certain maps are used? That's the one I'm thinking of. People can replace maps currently but only siege maps, I would assume because the game calls for a specific map rather than drawing from a pool.
The colouring map one that CA is implementing will allow general battle maps on the campaign, though modders will have to work together to create map packs since you can't combine the image files.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 24, 2017, 01:26:30 am
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlxrhB4DvEE&feature=youtu.be)
Another interesting element is that what knights you can recruit into a lords army is affected by what knightly vows they have unlocked. This means that higher level lords are much more valuable because they can take units like Questing Knights into their armies without suffering a large upkeep penalty for these units.
Some of the research topics are neat as well. One shown off in the video is a decree against the Norse tribes that reduces diplomatic relations with them but, along with other bonues, makes your armies immune to snow attrition. Another was a research topic called "Harbourmaster Bribes" that, while increases port income generated, cost money as well as reducing your chivalry rank.
Also on chivalry, sacking a settlement reduces it while razing a settlement increases it. It was also shown that the blessing of the Lady that armies can get from winning battles can happen from any battle but always happens if a won battle was a heroic victory.
One other thing is that traits gained by generals now mention how they were gained. It seems like these traits are also more closely tied to taking certain actions than the seemingly rather random system present at the moment.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 24, 2017, 04:17:17 am
Post by: Tack on February 24, 2017, 04:33:07 am
Not hugely, but that's 'cos I didn't buy grim
Post by: Mech#4 on February 24, 2017, 04:59:06 am
Post by: Tack on February 24, 2017, 07:12:54 am
Post by: Teneb on February 24, 2017, 08:01:06 am
Kemmler's sword continues to make me happy- at least in PvEKemmler is literally the second worst lord in the game. He's only better than Goldfinger because the Lore of Metal is bad unless you are using a magic rebalance mod, while Lore of Vampires is pretty great.
Oh, and patch notes (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191504/bretonnia-update-patch-notes/)
Spoiler: In case you are at work or whatever (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on February 24, 2017, 08:13:27 am
Post by: Teneb on February 24, 2017, 08:28:22 am
EDIT: I am not going to transcribe this (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191508/patch-6-full-ability-balance-change-list), but it shows changes ability by ability. Our boy Gelt is now maybe useful as a buffer/debuffer.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 24, 2017, 09:36:58 am
"Reduced the accuracy of the Campaign AI assessment of player movement extents to improve game balance on lower difficulty settings."
This is neat. It should mean less time spent chasing enemy armies around.
One thing I noted in their best practices topic for the battle map editor. One of the forest images looks like a jungle forest to me. Does that exist in the game currently, or is it take from Attila or something? (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/191503/community-battle-map-design-best-practices#latest)
Post by: Tack on February 24, 2017, 09:46:36 am
Cute
Post by: umiman on February 24, 2017, 01:17:03 pm
Post by: Hetairos on February 24, 2017, 09:20:08 pm
Quote
- Improvements to Campaign AI recruitment logic.
- Fixed a bug causing the game to crash with very large numbers of men in a unit.
- Changed Wood Elves campaign behaviour to be isolationist with occasional bursts of aggression, better reflecting the lore.
Plus changes to magic. Update's looking pretty great.
Quote
- Orion, The King In The Woods, has issued a proclamation throughout Athel loren denying his resemblance to Mel Gibson.
ayy
Post by: umiman on February 26, 2017, 11:22:17 pm
I mean, their infantry is pretty much "meh" but their cavalry now really, really live up to their name.
In the past I didn't give a bleeding crap about Bretonnian cavalry at all. The thing I feared most about them was their trebuchets.
But now.
The Grail Guardians are actually STRONGER than Blood Knights. Christ I do not want to fight that.
Royal Hippogriph Knights are basically flying Demigryph Knights.
Royal Pegasus Knights are flying Grail Knights.
Not to mention the buffs to their regular Grail Knights and all their other cavalry.
I do not want to fight them. They will win every single cavalry engagement.
This of course, doesn't even touch upon the OPness that is the Green Knight. See, normally Ethereal units have really crappy stats to make up for the fact that they're really hard to kill and don't have movement penalties because of terrain. This isn't the case for the Green Knight. Even with Ethereal he still has better base stats than practically every single other unit in the game. That's nuts. Oh, and he regenerates hp. Oh, and he gets +34 melee attack and +44% weapon damage permanently for some reason. Oh, and 20% physical resistance. Oh, and he can't break.
What the fuck is that shit. Easily the best unit in the entire game. Nothing can fight him.
Post by: Tack on February 26, 2017, 11:39:01 pm
But yeah, Beastmen are going to be having a much rougher start now... Need more Gor spearmen.
Post by: umiman on February 27, 2017, 12:15:03 am
I guess that's to offset his randomness?Are you referring to his appearance in campaign?
But yeah, Beastmen are going to be having a much rougher start now... Need more Gor spearmen.
I was thinking more along the lines of skirmish or multiplayer. I believe he's slightly more expensive than a Terrorgheist, which honestly isn't that bad for a basically immortal superunit.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 27, 2017, 01:05:32 am
Chaos Spawn, summoned by Morghur, would be particuarly useful since they're also unbreakable. Gorebulls flatten pretty much any lord/hero type.
One thing I've seen a few people mentioning is the new Foot Squire units (two handed, anti-infantry with armour piercing) being a bit too good for their cost and the general low quality of Bretonnian foot troops. I think there was also a comment about Questing Knights being better than Grail Knights (questing knights are two handed, anti-large I believe) though anti-large in Warhammer: Total War also counts against cavalry so vs cavalry you'd expect them to do better than lance wielding Grail Knights.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 27, 2017, 01:59:24 am
I never played WF:FB tabletop, but in general it seems that polearms are really underpowered in TW: Warhamster. Basically you can roll over any spear unit with heavy cavalry from the front and any infantry pretty much cuts them down. It would be nice to have defensive infantry you can trust to hold the line, not do much damage, but stop the enemy coming from the front. Traditionally this is what spears and pikes were for. There don't seem to be any units for that in this game?
The closest thing is dwarven basic infantry, but they don't have polearms and thus only add to point out how lackluster all the polearms feel like.
Post by: umiman on February 27, 2017, 02:07:55 am
See, currently in the game, the only units that use spears are basically cheap cannon fodder.
In this game, the cheap cannon fodder exist to be mowed down like chaff.
There are exceptions to this though, such as chosen or some of the Elven stuff, but for the most part guys like Empire spearmen, skeleton spears, and so on are basically just there to tarpit the enemy.
Just how it is. Also I'll bet it has something to do with popular opinion thinking spears aren't as cool as swords and axes even though spears were our best weapon for over ten thousand years of human history.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 27, 2017, 02:36:11 am
The main defence you're looking for to a cavalry charge is a unit with "Charge Defence vs Large". Empire Spearmen have this which, while not skewering cavalry like in Attila, counters the high charge bonus making the cavalry charge deal less damage. The unit has to be stationary and facing the charge for this effect to work. Deep ranks also gives more mass to the unit, meaning the enemy cavalry will have a harder time charging through the unit.
To actually deal damage vs cavalry you need to look towards other units as spears have low attack ratings. Halberdiers are probably the best counter for heavily armoured cavalry in the Empire list as they have "Charge Defence vs Large", "Armour Piercing" and "Anti-Large". Greatswords would also work in a flank attack against heavily armoured cavalry as they have armour piercing but they lack the anti-large and charge defence vs large so they can't take the cavalry charge.
For some other factions it gets a bit more loose. Goblins and zombies are terrible units but it's better to get them charged by cavalry and flank charge with something stronger then let you're Orc Big 'Uns or Grave Guard be charged instead.
Using magic or poison arrows to slow down enemy units can also work, at least slowing them down enough so a fast unit like Fellbats or chaos warhounds can catch them and tie them down while something tougher gets in to deal with them.
Dwarfs can pretty much all defend against cavalry but Long Beards with Great Axes are particuarly good with "Charge Defence vs Large" and "Armour Piercing". Ironbreakers are the best against any charge, "Expert Charge Defence", but they're not damage dealers and need something like Hammerers to compliment them.
Post by: Thexor on February 27, 2017, 02:41:42 am
That said, part of my problem is having outdated units, so maybe it's not a lack of spears specifically that's hurting me. I kept using crappy armies of skeletons with a few heavy hitters (I <3 my Varghulf) because that was more than enough to roll through lightly-armoured Empire forces, especially during siege battles where Raise Dead summons in the chokepoint could do all the work for me. Now Chaos has arrived with its near-universal 120 armour, and I'm scrambling because my only source of great weapon Grave Guards was just razed and it'll be another 3 turns before I can recruit them again. It's not fun having a group of Chosen eat through two skeletal tarpits, take a cavalry charge to the back, and still be at 50% health/25% leadership.
Post by: Tack on February 27, 2017, 03:38:06 am
Post by: Mech#4 on February 27, 2017, 03:39:29 am
Verses things like Chosen I would suggest, as you mentioned yourself, Grave Guard with Greatswords. Other good counters are Hex Wraiths and Cairn Wraiths with their armour piercing, terror and etheral. Crypt Horrors are also good with armour piercing and regeneration, as are Vargulfs. Vargeists are nice damage dealers but they lack armour piercing and have low defence so are best used as cycle chargers.
With giants and trolls the thing to remember is that they have rather low leadership and armour. If you can surround them or deal enough damage you should get them routing. Gaze of Nagash is good for targeting giants as they're big and tower above other units while death magic spells that lower leadership is a good cast on large clumps of the enemies army when their moral starts wavering.
I would recommend using Terrorgeists as flanking units to rear charge the enemy when the battlelines are engaged. A good strength of the Vampire Counts is all their units cause Fear and the Terrorgeist causes Terror (along with some other units like the Vargulf). Fear lowers enemies moral when in combat while Terror has a chance to cause the enemy unit to break and start fleeing from the terror causing units charge.
Another big strength of the Vampire Counts over the Warriors of Chaos is Invocation of Nehek. You can heal your units and get models back. A good way to grind the enemy down if you manage to keep your lords and heroes away from the scary Chaos lords. If you have the "Grim and the Grave" DLC, the Corpse Cart with the Unholy Lodestone gives a passive healing aura around it that helps keep your units in the fight longer while the Mortis Engine heals your units and also deals damage to enemies nearby over time.
Since your armies are made up of mostly low tier units, you could raise a few more lords, give them full stacks of zombies and skeletons and wear the enemy down with suicide armies. If you manage to keep your lord out of combat the enemy with have to cut through most of your forces taking casualties in the process.
Post by: Majestic7 on February 27, 2017, 03:48:34 am
Post by: Tack on February 27, 2017, 05:46:28 am
Finally, If you sign up to Total War's dashboard thingy you get Bretonnia 24 hours early (https://dashboard.totalwar.com/auth/login).Just joined up, but I think I missed it.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 06:26:03 am
It should be around 16:00 GMT that it unlocks.Finally, If you sign up to Total War's dashboard thingy you get Bretonnia 24 hours early (https://dashboard.totalwar.com/auth/login).Just joined up, but I think I missed it.
Post by: Tack on February 27, 2017, 06:39:30 am
Because otherwise I think I've definitely missed it. I'm just getting offered free wallpapers and bunk.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 06:41:30 am
In other news, it wasn't on the patch notes, but warriors of Chaos and beastmen will get the Lore of Shadows.
Post by: Tack on February 27, 2017, 06:44:26 am
Edit: Four hours later...
Tweet from CA (https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/836248020706480128)
(Saying there's technical difficulties)
I guess staying up for this was a bit of a fool's game.
I guess I'm lucky in that I can wake up eight hours from now and assume that they'd have fixed it.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 11:58:37 am
Post by: lordcooper on February 27, 2017, 12:08:32 pm
Post by: umiman on February 27, 2017, 12:25:32 pm
It's out.
Anyway, regarding VC's weakness to large units.
I think I talked about this before but yeah, it used to be one of their biggest problems.
I say used to because now they have a super powerful counter, one of the best in the entire game.
Blood Knights.
End of story. If you're not using Blood Knights as VC, you're doing something wrong. Hell, if you can recruit Terrorgheists, you can't tell me you can't recruit Blood Knights.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 12:26:45 pm
Nope.(http://i.imgur.com/ca2Ckxd.png)
EDIT: Unfortunately, Steam is doing the thing where it stops the download for no reason whenever I try to start it. It's not just for this game, others in the download queue are also doing this. Damn it volvo.
EDIT 2: For future reference, if anyone has this kind of problem, go to settings -> download -> clear download cache.
EDIT 3: Isabella's only tomorrow, by the by.
Y'know what, let's keep adding edits: GOLDFINGER HAS BEEN BUFFED! Praise Sigmar! Not in the patch notes for some reason.
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/89348290296701784/39B37128D463BF4F10BEDBFCC424F28FECCE1D47/?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-format=jpeg&output-quality=95&fit=inside|1024:576&composite-to%3D%2A%2C%2A%7C1024%3A576&background-color=black)
Post by: lordcooper on February 27, 2017, 12:39:07 pm
Nope.(http://i.imgur.com/ca2Ckxd.png)
Dank pic. Nobody is able to play as them right now, they buggered up the release.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 12:44:19 pm
Finished downloading and you're right, it's buggered up somewhat. Still says not installed for me.Nope.(http://i.imgur.com/ca2Ckxd.png)
Dank pic. Nobody is able to play as them right now, they buggered up the release.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 03:40:03 pm
Unless you want to do something absolutely terrifying. Before I start, keep in mind I take no responsibility if you do it wrong. These are the instructions. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/5wj175/found_a_fix_for_brettonia_works_for_me_at_least/) I can confirm they work, but it was tense. Afterwards, just go back to the access thingy and grab the proper key.
EDIT: In a reference to turning the White Dwarf's name to Alejandro, Cataph's Southern Realm mod turns the Fay Enchantress' name to Morales right now.
Post by: umiman on February 27, 2017, 05:39:24 pm
EDIT: In a reference to turning the White Dwarf's name to Alejandro, Cataph's Southern Realm mod turns the Fay Enchantress' name to Morales right now.I was wondering about that...
Edit: CA must have given Cataph an early version of the game as all his excellent mods have been updated for it already.
Post by: Teneb on February 27, 2017, 06:21:32 pm
Yeah. He also made new ones buffing Alberic, changing the Lance of Bretonnia lord skill (it gave 3/6/9% charge bonus to the lord, he changed it to be for the army), and also a mod buffing Gelt and Kemmler.EDIT: In a reference to turning the White Dwarf's name to Alejandro, Cataph's Southern Realm mod turns the Fay Enchantress' name to Morales right now.I was wondering about that...
Edit: CA must have given Cataph an early version of the game as all his excellent mods have been updated for it already.
CA apparently leaves a lot of out patch changelogs (according to them "because it takes too much time to write a changelog"). Ungrim got buffed, +30 vs Large and Deathblow was changed from bonus vs various targets to bonus vs single target, making him more slayer-y. Not sure if Kemmler got any official love. Firing up the VC campaign to check it out.
EDIT: If he got buffed, I have no clue.
Post by: sambojin on February 27, 2017, 06:40:33 pm
This seemed to happen in TT too. Lets just hope O+G don't get codex creeped into a low tier army like they did in the boardgame. It's funny how what's meant to be one of the "whacky" races ends up being very flexible, reliable and balanced so early on in the piece. No flying goon squad, no real cheese strats, and no one thing that "they're good at" (except maybe infantry and spell buffing them, or an actual combined-arms approach to strategy), but it all still works.
Bretonnia seems pretty terrifying in comparison due to them not having the balance passes done yet, and them being dimensioned up so differently to O+G. Still, at least in TW:W there CAN be balance passes, unlike in tabletop.
((I'm probably underestimating just how big of a difference +10% physical resist is. Savages will probably win quite handily against lots of stuff that they didn't before now, and stick around quite a bit longer even when they don't. The waaaghing-man's ethereal, and free! The -50 cost on spiders isn't really anything. They'll never be marauder horsemen with axes for character sniping, so I'm not sure of why the tiny change was made. Cheaper is better, but marauders got the discount too (while still having ridiculous AP shooting damage in comparison). Probably just so it looks like there was some changes made to O+G in this pass, because saying "Trolls and savage orcs got a bit tankier" doesn't sound like much.))
Post by: umiman on February 27, 2017, 06:54:23 pm
I really like Cataph's balance things. He seems to have a much better understanding of how to balance the game than CA does haha.Yeah. He also made new ones buffing Alberic, changing the Lance of Bretonnia lord skill (it gave 3/6/9% charge bonus to the lord, he changed it to be for the army), and also a mod buffing Gelt and Kemmler.EDIT: In a reference to turning the White Dwarf's name to Alejandro, Cataph's Southern Realm mod turns the Fay Enchantress' name to Morales right now.I was wondering about that...
Edit: CA must have given Cataph an early version of the game as all his excellent mods have been updated for it already.
CA apparently leaves a lot of out patch changelogs (according to them "because it takes too much time to write a changelog"). Ungrim got buffed, +30 vs Large and Deathblow was changed from bonus vs various targets to bonus vs single target, making him more slayer-y. Not sure if Kemmler got any official love. Firing up the VC campaign to check it out.
EDIT: If he got buffed, I have no clue.
Post by: Tack on February 27, 2017, 08:47:01 pm
Their mobility is top-notch.
Post by: sambojin on February 27, 2017, 08:50:16 pm
I guess it's thematically appropriate for the "savage" side of the list to all get a +tweak. Spiders probably were a little too pricey, so I'm not exactly complaining. It might be just the cost reduction needed to squeak some savages or big'uns into a list where you couldn't before. Poison attack debuff + 10% extra physical resist might scale beautifully too (like how gobbo magic does mysteriously wonderful things, even if it doesn't seem THAT good on paper. It really, really is).
I could have written about the gobbo chariot's extra projectile being the REAL patch filler, but I didn't. Until now. It might look prettier, I guess?
Post by: Mech#4 on February 27, 2017, 09:12:02 pm
Post by: sambojin on February 27, 2017, 09:20:34 pm
@Mecha#4. Spider riders are really good for the "chase down" bit of a battle. They can even sit around until that bit if needed. The movement debuff is probably just as strong as the -attack part of poison, and it lets other slowish orc cavalry and infantry have a shot at picking broken units apart as well. It's not the be-all-and-end-all, and having some wolves around is always worth it anyway, but spiders are really useful for O+G to have a unit or two of in most cases. It's sometimes hard to find a use for them, but when you do, that poison is like mini-gobbo magic that you can position wherever you want, regardless of winds. They might not even need a faster support unit to chase with either, which is their real advantage compared to infantry night goblins. Or it's just fun to annoy cavalry and flyers with. Just kind of sling some shots around or flank/rear charge cycle splat them into infantry. Not for the damage they do, but because it's annoying and deceptively powerful. Poison is surprisingly underrated, mainly because it's an extra combat modifier, and you stack 'em like hell wherever possible anyway. You've got to have a combat advantage already for it to be worth throwing a tissue-paper endurance unit into a combat though. It makes it faster, it should save some of your proper combat troops, but working out when it'll swing morale in their favour or yours from the casualties caused is an artform in itself. At worst they're a few extra units taken care of if you're winning (or at least a few extra entities gone from a unit or two when they rally if your infantry and spiders really can't chase them right then), or the ability to dick around a goon squad/cav unit group or other flyers for a bit, and at best they're portable on-call magic. Or they can magnanimously bother to appear from hiding half-way through a battle and save a unit of yours from pursuers, or execute one of the enemy's that's running away. They're worth a control key, each and every unit (so, like 2 keys max usually), no matter what you plan to do with them. A unit or two of spiders are nice. Hard to use well, but with potential effects all out of proportion to their combat value, endurance or even kill counts. Not even horrible vs VC, because it's a little extra damage mitigation and quicker crumbling sometimes. Or just to splat them against two/three blocks of zombies/skellies/GG/whatever to hold them up for a moment (putting spiders to a max-width setup to splat against multiple units from behind is a viable use for them). Oh, and the occasional "hidden necromancer" safety setup from VC is funny as hell if the spiders just happen to full-move-speed by him and notice him from their own hidden placements in the backfield.
Wolves are annoying because you can't really play tag with them easily, and they're so cheap and inconsequential that it probably isn't worth it. Spiders are annoying because they can play tag with you if they manage to poison your units, and it's still not worth it to go out of your way to stop them tagging something. If you do, you lose meat on your front line or fast/flying/ranged units as deciders, which is exactly what we orcs want. But spiders have a threat value due to poison effects, wolves kind of don't other than their speed (which reduces people's wish to threaten them). People often try and engage spiders, simply because they can. All out of proportion to what they're worth, and well before they'd be useful in a battle anyway. Which is usually a win for you. Not to say you shouldn't try and win the cav war, but sometimes even when you don't, it's still a win for you, simply because "spiders are slow fast-cav" and thus were engaged as such. For a far longer time than was appropriate compared to what's happening in "the real battles".
Post by: Tack on February 28, 2017, 12:27:45 am
Is fun.
AMA
Post by: Silent_Thunder on February 28, 2017, 12:47:01 am
Playing as Brettonia currently.
Is fun.
AMA
Why do you follow a watery tart instead of Sigmar's holy light. And gunpowder. Mostly gunpowder.
Post by: sambojin on February 28, 2017, 12:56:44 am
Post by: Tack on February 28, 2017, 06:38:15 am
It is annoying when my pegasus knights aren't fast enough to catch hawkriders and they just keep shooting me.
Elves are harder to play against than I thought.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 28, 2017, 12:12:12 pm
As dwarves, my tactic has mostly been 'sit and wait until they run out of ammo, then charge them' and its been effective except those magic-slinging bow guys never seemed to run out.
I solved it by bringing more cannons, which was glorious. I burned the tree of ages.
Post by: Teneb on February 28, 2017, 12:46:39 pm
Do the elf units with the magical arrows ever run out of ammo?Yes. Actually, I think they have slightly less ammo than their regular counterparts.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 28, 2017, 12:53:39 pm
Post by: umiman on February 28, 2017, 01:28:51 pm
Hm, maybe I was just impatient. Still, my tactic of having ironbreakers simply weather the arrow storm seemed to work remarkably well. Once they ran out, my own riflemen and axemen quickly removed the elf threatOther than bringing a bunch of siege weapons and gyrocopters, that's probably the only strategy that Dwarfs have against Elves.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 28, 2017, 01:31:58 pm
It was pretty impressive though, seeing a line of ironbreakers just slowly walking into the rain of arrows completely heedless of the incoming fire.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on February 28, 2017, 02:11:46 pm
Given that the expansialones will connect to the base game if you have them both, I wonder how hard it will be to do a total world conquest across all three maps. I wonder if the maps become one huge seamless map, or there are transition points ala Empire. I imagine they have to add naval combat, now, at least if they go west.
Post by: Retropunch on February 28, 2017, 02:22:48 pm
Apparently, Bretonnia is the last Old World DLC (https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/02/28/total-warhammer-bretonnia-dlc-ends-first-game/), at least for a while. Are we going west, for Elves, Lizardmen, maybe a touch of Skaven? Or south and east, for skeltals and Ogres (and a touch of Skaven)?
Given that the expansialones will connect to the base game if you have them both, I wonder how hard it will be to do a total world conquest across all three maps. I wonder if the maps become one huge seamless map, or there are transition points ala Empire. I imagine they have to add naval combat, now, at least if they go west.
I'd hope west, just because lizardmen and skaven could have some quite interesting mechanics - I can imagine other Elves would also be easy enough to do and add a lot of interest. I'd also hope it's one big map, but it depends how they've coded the game - I wouldn't imagine the world map size matters too much, so they should be able to just tack more stuff on.
Post by: Wiles on February 28, 2017, 02:44:03 pm
Post by: umiman on February 28, 2017, 03:59:28 pm
Doubtful that'll happen, but here's to hoping nontheless.
Today I spent two hours incinerating elves with fire. It was fantastic. 10/10 would incinerate longears again.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 28, 2017, 08:56:21 pm
It's also interesting to note that Alberic of Bordeleaux's unique item, the Tridant of Manaan, actually gives -75% deep sea attrition. I don't think any other character has this benefit.
As for the end to DLC for the first game, I thought I saw mentions that there was going to be one more coming. There is still the "Old Friend" thing in the FLC list but I felt sure there was some other DLC coming.
Post by: Teneb on February 28, 2017, 09:01:02 pm
Well, when map packs start getting compiled we should be able to get a nice variety in siege maps. I think they're still just battle maps but some, like the Karak Kadrin map, have natural chokepoints that make it pretty much a siege. All that's missing is the control points.Can't have siege equipment or gates or towers in custom maps, sadly.
Post by: umiman on February 28, 2017, 09:03:24 pm
I thought it would crush my computer as when I get four armies running around in a 2v2 battle, my fps collapses.
However, it turns out just increasing unit counts doesn't actually hurt fps all that much. Pretty strange that.
The effect is fantastic though. Basically every single battle is now 50% bigger.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 01, 2017, 02:23:49 am
Post by: Retropunch on March 01, 2017, 09:45:31 am
Post by: Tack on March 01, 2017, 10:01:00 am
It seems unlikely that there will be naval combat, ever. The reason is licensing. Warhammer has a separate naval combat game and another company is making a game based on that. Considering the retarded way the Evil Empire handles their IP, this might well mean that TW:WH will never have naval combat beyond autoresolving.That... seems irrelevant. GW really doesn't care if two developers get to clash over their IP - they're still getting money from the IP.
Ulthuan, Naggaroth and Lustria will be completely unplayable without some dedicated ship-stuff. I'd say combat will come in then.
Post by: Teneb on March 01, 2017, 10:01:49 am
Not only that, but dataminers found ship models, way, way back.It seems unlikely that there will be naval combat, ever. The reason is licensing. Warhammer has a separate naval combat game and another company is making a game based on that. Considering the retarded way the Evil Empire handles their IP, this might well mean that TW:WH will never have naval combat beyond autoresolving.That... seems irrelevant. GW really doesn't care if two developers get to clash over their IP - they're still getting money from the IP.
Ulthuan, Naggaroth and Lustria will be completely unplayable without some dedicated ship-stuff. I'd say combat will come in then.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 01, 2017, 11:19:53 am
That... seems irrelevant. GW really doesn't care if two developers get to clash over their IP - they're still getting money from the IP.
Ulthuan, Naggaroth and Lustria will be completely unplayable without some dedicated ship-stuff. I'd say combat will come in then.
The point is that Fantasy Battle is one game and the out-of-production ship game is a different game. If Fantasy Battle has been licensed to CA and the ship game to another company, those are different licenses. Of course, I'd hope there to be naval battles, but it might not be so easy.
Post by: umiman on March 01, 2017, 01:22:29 pm
All you have to do is search "warhammer" in Steam to see the massive deluge of garbage that will pour fourth to know that GeeDubs doesn't give two shits about who it licenses what to.That... seems irrelevant. GW really doesn't care if two developers get to clash over their IP - they're still getting money from the IP.
Ulthuan, Naggaroth and Lustria will be completely unplayable without some dedicated ship-stuff. I'd say combat will come in then.
The point is that Fantasy Battle is one game and the out-of-production ship game is a different game. If Fantasy Battle has been licensed to CA and the ship game to another company, those are different licenses. Of course, I'd hope there to be naval battles, but it might not be so easy.
It licenses everything to everyone. There's no exclusivity here. I could send an email to them with some stock photos and a promise to make them $40k and get a license for Warhammer 40k if I wanted.
Post by: Hanslanda on March 07, 2017, 06:00:27 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 07, 2017, 06:16:46 pm
I have just gotten TW:W installed and it's telling me that my drivers need to be updated. I updated my drivers, and it says the same thing. When I try to launch the game, it starts the first loading screen with the logo and legal info, then shuts down and restarts my computer. Anyone who can help me?Make sure your OS is updated as well. I used to have a problem that my graphics card program would keep telling me that the drivers were updated when they were not (because I had the latest for that version of windows).
Post by: Tack on March 08, 2017, 01:27:57 am
Post by: Hanslanda on March 08, 2017, 11:57:31 am
Post by: Tack on March 08, 2017, 02:06:28 pm
Best SEGA since Shogun 2 IMO
Deliberately exlcluding the pre-sega titles
Post by: umiman on March 13, 2017, 05:17:24 am
So this is the first time I've bothered to fight the Wood Elves in the campaign (VH difficulty). It's so unbelievably annoying.
Hell, I thought the Norscan raiders were annoying before but they're nothing compared to trying to attack Athel Loren. Not only is the attrition insanely high, but just trying to move around inside the forest takes forever.
Then there's the cheating AI of course, who just cheatspawns fullstacks everywhere. Normally I don't particularly care about this but because the elves can move freely through the tiny little forest, you basically have like 8 fullstack armies inside all within reinforcing range of each other. What the fuck.
Then you have to actually fight the Welfs themselves and that sucks so much dick. I actually have no idea how to reduce casualties as Bretonnia. I've tried every single combination but because I keep having to fight 2 - 3 stacks at a time, it's stupidly hard and I generally have to sacrifice 3000+ troops to make any headway at all. I've burned down 3 of the 4 settlements in Athel Loren and I've lost 5 high level generals and probably something like 12,000 troops.
At this point I wish I was the Dwarfs. Then I could just bring a couple of flame cannons and some ironbreakers and call it a day.
Hell, Archaon and his gang are completely ravaging Middenland and I have one level 1 general holding all of them off singlehandedly. I have Alberic, Leonceour, Morgiana, and two more generals just slowly crawling through the stupid forest. It's so annoying!!! I've lost count how many times I've defeated Durthu and Orion.
Post by: Tack on March 13, 2017, 05:55:32 am
Post by: umiman on March 13, 2017, 01:58:45 pm
At least they don't have regiments of renown?*twitch*
-----------
Incidentally, I never really realized just HOW much damage Welfs do until now. They just melt all my knights and infantry like butter, which is kinda why I have so much trouble with them. I take so many casualties no matter what I bring. Even my fully maxed out Leonceour can't handle more than 1 minute of getting bashed on by them. And this is a guy who can pretty much solokill the entire Norscan wastes.
I was particularly amused when Durthu basically killed the Green Knight in a few hits. Man, that guy cannot handle magical damage at all.
Post by: Teneb on March 13, 2017, 02:01:54 pm
Mayhaps you could use peasant mobs as fodder? Elves don't have a lot of ammo.At least they don't have regiments of renown?*twitch*
-----------
Incidentally, I never really realized just HOW much damage Welfs do until now. They just melt all my knights and infantry like butter, which is kinda why I have so much trouble with them. I take so many casualties no matter what I bring. Even my fully maxed out Leonceour can't handle more than 1 minute of getting bashed on by them. And this is a guy who can pretty much solokill the entire Norscan wastes.
I was particularly amused when Durthu basically killed the Green Knight in a few hits. Man, that guy cannot handle magical damage at all.
Post by: umiman on March 13, 2017, 02:25:04 pm
Are you telling me to sacrifice the lives of my poor, innocent peasants on a pointless crusade against some pointy-eared folks?Mayhaps you could use peasant mobs as fodder? Elves don't have a lot of ammo.At least they don't have regiments of renown?*twitch*
-----------
Incidentally, I never really realized just HOW much damage Welfs do until now. They just melt all my knights and infantry like butter, which is kinda why I have so much trouble with them. I take so many casualties no matter what I bring. Even my fully maxed out Leonceour can't handle more than 1 minute of getting bashed on by them. And this is a guy who can pretty much solokill the entire Norscan wastes.
I was particularly amused when Durthu basically killed the Green Knight in a few hits. Man, that guy cannot handle magical damage at all.
How dare you.
How dare you assume I didn't already do this.
I only have the World Tree left anyway. This is just post-problem complaining.
---------
Interestingly enough, I kinda want to try this challenge with the other races just to see who could do it the best.
I think the VC could handle it really well, as they have the fastest moving units who can easily deal with those archers (dire wolves and bats). Not to mention Blood Knights would completely obliterate all the tree units. And they wouldn't give a shit about losing units as they can straight up resummon them inside the forest itself.
Post by: forsaken1111 on March 13, 2017, 02:43:24 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 13, 2017, 02:49:06 pm
Dwarves work well. Just sit there and wait, taking the incoming fire, until they run out of ammo. You can take it. They can barely hurt a good line of Ironbreakers.Also: firedrakes burn them trees good.
Post by: Tack on March 13, 2017, 04:06:49 pm
Which makes arrows hurt less maybe.
Post by: Thexor on March 14, 2017, 01:53:02 am
I dunno... after tons of Undead campaign work and a bit of Bretonnian action, it's gonna take some work to switch to an army with fragile tarpits and a hybrid leader that loses in melee to a generic Beastman lord!
Post by: Majestic7 on March 14, 2017, 02:05:03 am
Did they fix Elves never getting any followers, tho?
Post by: Mech#4 on March 14, 2017, 04:47:26 am
Post by: Majestic7 on March 14, 2017, 05:12:37 am
Post by: RexMundi on March 14, 2017, 11:22:20 pm
Post by: Retropunch on March 15, 2017, 06:19:32 am
Asking if anyone here has an extra copy, say through the humble monthly? I'm looking to trade something for one before shelling out full price to buy my own copy after I gifted mine to my brother
It's rather doubtful anyone would here. I guess you could try Reddit where you might have better luck, but otherwise I'm guessing it might go on sale in the June sales.
Post by: RexMundi on March 15, 2017, 12:24:27 pm
Post by: Retropunch on March 15, 2017, 12:49:48 pm
Yeah, that's what I'm looking at. I can survive family share until next sale though. What are people's thoughts on mods for the game?
Read back a few pages and I've asked the same question and got some good answers. Extended home region movement and extra skill points are a must, as is turning off regiments of renown if you don't have the DLC that allows for them.
Post by: umiman on March 15, 2017, 01:31:51 pm
---
Apparently there's one more FLC coming for Warhammer: Total War: Old World Edition.
The An Old Friend hasn't been released yet, or so the rumour goes. Some are saying it's likely to be Boris Todbringer as his model is already in the game.
I hope it's Mousillon myself, but I think the TW team have left that faction and the Southern Realms for modders.
Post by: Thexor on March 16, 2017, 01:45:45 am
On the flip side, people would understandably complain if the VC got yet another unique character when the Empire is sitting at 3 legendary lords and 1 start position, so... maybe it'll be Boris after all.
Post by: Tack on March 16, 2017, 03:35:50 am
It's the only remaining 'dead zone' on the map, and frankly just knowing it's there is a constant itch I can't scratch.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 16, 2017, 03:42:55 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 16, 2017, 06:58:02 am
Gotrek and Felix I could see as heroes for the Empire and the Dwarves. Possibly also Bretonnia.
@Thexor: There is a lot of characters for the Vampire Counts but, well, one of their strengths in the tabletop was their characters/lords/heroes. Adding more but into seperate factions would help spread them about a bit what with Zacharias The Everliving and Queen Neferata. Though I don't know enough about the characters to really say where they could start from.
@Tack: I feel that if they add Skaven to the second game, if you own the first one you'll be able to play as the Skaven out of Skavenblight, possibly with other settlements like Hellpit near Praag. I checked the swamp area every update thinknig they might've added a little something but there's only the little ruins.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 16, 2017, 07:00:46 am
Post by: Tack on March 16, 2017, 07:59:58 am
Yeah unlikely. But there was sappers in Rome 1 so I wouldn't second-guess their ambition just yet
Post by: Teneb on March 16, 2017, 08:26:38 am
Duel characters like that could be done as they did Skarsnik and Gobbla. Though I will say the animation for those two fighting and moving about is a little janky looking as they turn on a central point between them.It makes a bit of sense for Skarsnik and Gobbla because they are chained to each other (even if it doesn't show in the model), but it would look awkward for others.
@Thexor: There is a lot of characters for the Vampire Counts but, well, one of their strengths in the tabletop was their characters/lords/heroes. Adding more but into seperate factions would help spread them about a bit what with Zacharias The Everliving and Queen Neferata. Though I don't know enough about the characters to really say where they could start from.Neferata would start somewhere in the northern world's edge mountains (the ones where the dwarfs and greenskins are at). No idea where Zach would be.
Post by: umiman on March 16, 2017, 01:04:18 pm
I'm going a little farther out on a limb and hoping for Krell. Kemmler needs a little something to give him a boost - he's absolutely _dreadful_ as a legendary lord, heck he's pretty bad compared to the _generic_ VC lords, and he's quietly weeping in a corner now that Gelt got a notable boost in the last patch (general buffs to Lore of Metal plus Gelt gives a faction-wide +10 armour bonus now). Having Krell in the pipe would explain why Kemmler hasn't gotten any buffs, and there's now precedence with the Green Knight to have Legendary Heroes available.I don't actually understand why people keep saying Kemmler is worthless.
On the flip side, people would understandably complain if the VC got yet another unique character when the Empire is sitting at 3 legendary lords and 1 start position, so... maybe it'll be Boris after all.
I get that it's a meme and people feel he's neutered without Krell, but honestly he's pretty frigging strong. Besides, you can just rename any random hero "Krell" and be done with it. That's what I did.
Campaign-wise:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Playing with Kemmler is really no different than playing with Sigvald. They're both individually not that powerful, but they're more about buffing their armies than themselves.. And their start is so much easier than everyone else's due to way better units. Though unlike Sigvald, Kemmler sounds like some kind of cheesy evil minion rather than a cool badass.
Skirmish-wise:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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By the way, there's a "leak" of Warhammer 2 on 4chan and Reddit but Grace_CA is disputing it somewhat. Sounds suspect anyway since I highly doubt CA would make frigging Estalia a pre-order DLC bonus. Who the fuck cares about Estalia. Also the leak leaves no room for DLC, which is what makes me doubt it the most.
Post by: Tack on March 16, 2017, 01:51:03 pm
Maybe Vlad is better now but I recall Sigvald being way up on top at the start.
Post by: umiman on March 16, 2017, 02:52:09 pm
I think sigvald ends up having some of the best combat-monster stats in the game though.Yeah, Sigvald is really good 1v1. Also his gear turns him into an absolute monster with the passive regen.
Maybe Vlad is better now but I recall Sigvald being way up on top at the start.
He has really, really poor AOE damage though so it takes him awhile to clear through units, unlike the other Chaos lords. But because he's a regular model and no mount, he lives longer than them.
Kemmler is just about the neverending regen, though he does have that +75% physical resistance on the cloak or something like that. He also does have all the lore of vampires spells at his disposal anyway such as wind of death.
It got nerfed super hard though, due to there now being a regen cap on units.
Post by: Teneb on March 16, 2017, 03:31:07 pm
Sigvald also has good leadership, which helps a lot with keeping trolls in the fight.I think sigvald ends up having some of the best combat-monster stats in the game though.Yeah, Sigvald is really good 1v1. Also his gear turns him into an absolute monster with the passive regen.
Maybe Vlad is better now but I recall Sigvald being way up on top at the start.
He has really, really poor AOE damage though so it takes him awhile to clear through units, unlike the other Chaos lords. But because he's a regular model and no mount, he lives longer than them.
Kemmler is just about the neverending regen, though he does have that +75% physical resistance on the cloak or something like that. He also does have all the lore of vampires spells at his disposal anyway such as wind of death.
It got nerfed super hard though, due to there now being a regen cap on units.
On your recommendation, I took Kemmler for a spin. Turns out that putting him in the middle of a zombie unit is pretty great for keeping him alive, especially when he is low level. Just keep in mind that he'll be slowed down by his zombie bunker.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 16, 2017, 07:51:59 pm
Quote
I get that it's a meme and people feel he's neutered without Krell, but honestly he's pretty frigging strong. Besides, you can just rename any random hero "Krell" and be done with it. That's what I did.
The only issue is that Kemmler (Not sure if it's been fixed) started with lower stats then your basic necromancer and took several levelups just to become par, which is strangely weak.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 16, 2017, 09:13:40 pm
His two unique bonuses as a lord are -25% to raise dead and -15% upkeep for Necromancers. Useful but when compared to things like Vlads army-wide vanguard or Ghorst giving his army poison attacks it's not really as impressive.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 17, 2017, 02:07:55 am
I finally gave a spin to Chaos. Is there any point in kicking around the Norscans but exp and loot? It seems that the awakened tribes just start fighting each other, forcing you to choose between them... which is pretty stupid. They should become vassals and vassals should be unable to fight each other. Any mods fixing this? I'm not surprised that a Total War sucks regarding diplomacy and such, tho. It is weird how no matter how many iterations of the game we have, CA is totally unable to make it even work in a basic way.
Post by: umiman on March 17, 2017, 02:14:07 am
I finally gave a spin to Chaos. Is there any point in kicking around the Norscans but exp and loot? It seems that the awakened tribes just start fighting each other, forcing you to choose between them... which is pretty stupid. They should become vassals and vassals should be unable to fight each other. Any mods fixing this? I'm not surprised that a Total War sucks regarding diplomacy and such, tho. It is weird how no matter how many iterations of the game we have, CA is totally unable to make it even work in a basic way.The Chaos early campaign sucks super ultra dick. I usually just autoresolve most of it.
What you want to do is make enough for a sizable army of warriors or Chosen, and then go roflstomp through Kislev and the Empire. It's way, way way more fun. Fighting the goddamn horse skirmishers of Norsca is ultra boring.
I never really bother awakening tribes either. It's a waste of time.
If there's any mods I'd recommend for Chaos campaign, I'd get the one that removes horde infighting. It's just stupid. Also get the one that gives Chaos rifts a passive Chaos corruption spread.
As for the campaign itself, I recommend you completely skip the marauder line of garbage and go straight for Warriors. Hell, just straight up delete your marauder building so you get more growth and money.
This is one of the reasons why I said Sigvald and Kemmler are way more powerful than their stats would suggest. Because their starting units are so much better. Sigvald starts with two Chosen and a Hellcannon. Heck, you don't even need to wait for sieges with him as you can attack straight away. And every single battle involves the enemy coming to you instead of you having to go to them (super important versus Norsca). Chosen roflstomp everything. Sigvald himself can just waltz into combat and just cleanse the filth no problem.
With the other two you kinda need to farm for better units and the hellcannon.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 17, 2017, 02:42:03 am
I guess I'm strange at Total War, but I actually like having allies fighting with me. It feels like I'm not the only one doing everything. In that sense, Chaos gameplay with assembled tribes and only running a couple of stacks myself seems interesting on paper. I suppose I've been spoiled by Paradox ally system though, when with CA this intention just frustrates me.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 17, 2017, 05:00:34 am
I have had some really neat battles as the Von Carsteins fighting alongside Hochland troops against Chaos. Imagining what the empire soldiers must be thinking when they're marching next to a Strigoi Ghoul King and his army of ghouls is very entertaining.
I had another battle as the Wood Elves where I aided the dwarfs in recapturing one of their holds from the greenskins. Some nice images of Wardancers fighting alongside Slayers.
I find the diplomacy rather reliable, as long I keep in mind a few things. Namely don't accept defensive/military alliances or military access if the A.I. asks for them and keep your reliability rating as high as possible by not breaking agreements just after you make them.
I've found the A.I. tends to ask for defensive alliances with you if they're looking to go to war and need your involvement to make up the power difference. Getting dragged into wars because I accepted defensive alliances or losing reliability in diplomacy because you have to break your agreement with one side is a no win situation unless you're powerful enough to deal with them.
In my current game as the Von Carsteins, the Vampire Counts and Mousillon keep asking me to break my non-aggression pact with Bretonnia. Mousillon ended up going to war with Bretonnia but was stomped so accepted my Confederation offer giving me their territory and keeping myself friendly with Bretonnia.
Bretonnia may end up going to war with me, probably because of the negative affects of the Vampiric corruption that is now spreading more strongly from Mousillon (due to research).
Having a defensive alliance with Bretonnia and the Empire, while gaining positive relations with both of them, ends up losing you reliability if they go to war as you have to choose one of them or drop both alliances. Better to keep relations at trade level (Which is hard enough to gain unless you have a lot of trade resources).
Also, if the A.I. asks you for peace, you can usually extort a fair amount of gold from them (~2000) in exchange for peace even if you haven't actually fought since they might've gone to war with another faction in the meantime. Again one of the dwarf factions near Athel Loren I was able to gain about 6000 gold from since they went to war with me, didn't like the power difference and wanted peace again soon after.
There's still cases of some factions declaring wars out of nowhere. Usually this for me is various Dwarf factions and I brush that off as them being forced to due to a grudge.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 17, 2017, 06:47:17 am
Post by: umiman on March 17, 2017, 11:41:57 am
Are aspiring champions worth using for Chaos? The unit size seems to be pretty small (16) and the stats aren't that great. I can see how vanguard deploying heavy infantry might be useful though, especially when I don't have any cavalry (yet) other than the two starting marauder ponies.Aspiring Champions are super strong. Get them.
They're immune to knockback and every single one of them attacks in AOE like a hero unit. Not to mention they do magic damage.
They're basically Trolls except with leadership. And they buff the morale of all your other units.
CA introduced these guys to give Chaos something more cost effective for skirmish battles. In the campaign, they're there to give you more killing power in the early / mid game.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 17, 2017, 11:45:39 am
The lower stats would be offset, I believe, by their AOE attacks. The times I have used them I've deployed them just behind the front line of my infantry so they can charge into the melee without being charged themselves. I don't really see the use of their vanguard deployment unless you want to hide them in a forest and flank that way. I treat them much as I treat trolls, chaos spawn and the like. I think they have encourage (like longbeards) which is useful to put them near other infantry.
Post by: umiman on March 17, 2017, 02:38:47 pm
Basically,
1. They might release more DLC for the current Total War Warhammer
2. Nothing new about Warhammer 2
3. They're looking into releasing DLC or a sequel to Attila or Rome 2.
4. I guarantee you from this wording:
Quote
The game retains the same strong focus on character design that infused previous major releases, with the key personalities of the period in particular being an early priority for us now; as such there are some vibrant and striking renders plastered around the studio, with eye-catching combat animations garnering some serious attention too.The next historical Total War will be Three Kingdoms Total War. It has to be. There really aren't a lot of historical periods of great battle where there are a lot of "key personalities" who are "vibrant" with melee combat.
They've already done the Sengoku Jidai. Charlemagne, Alexander, Rome, and all the pre-middle ages have been done. Anything involving the Medieval era will just be Medieval 2 and there aren't that many key personalities of that period that require strong character design. I mean, who gives a shit if King Henry VIII has 300 polygons for his massive dong.
There's nothing left. It has to be China. They could do something strange and have I dunno.... the Japanese conquests of Manchuria, which would be fairly interesting since it would involve Yi Sun-sin. But that would be too small in scope for a Total War game and I bet almost no one would know what that conflict even involved (it's pretty epic though).
C'mon, please be China!!!!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on March 17, 2017, 03:11:45 pm
But yeah, Three Kingdoms China would be great.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 17, 2017, 11:05:06 pm
In large battles, (40 plus units), the A.I. tends to bring reinforcing units into battle by charging them from the map edge into melee in a stream, rather than forming up into battlelines. This rather removes tatical choices and becomes more about weight of numbers.
Have other people found this? How do you deal with controlling 40+ units on the battlefield, especially when the armies arrive bit by bit rather than as one whole? If this is an issue, how would you change things (other than "Improve the A.I.)?
Post by: umiman on March 17, 2017, 11:20:15 pm
I'd like to get peoples thoughts on something I've found in the game.As far as I'm aware, it's been like this since Medieval 2. As in, even before they allowed more than 20 unit cards per army. Reinforcements always came in one by one unless they were controlled by a completely separate faction.
In large battles, (40 plus units), the A.I. tends to bring reinforcing units into battle by charging them from the map edge into melee in a stream, rather than forming up into battlelines. This rather removes tatical choices and becomes more about weight of numbers.
Have other people found this? How do you deal with controlling 40+ units on the battlefield, especially when the armies arrive bit by bit rather than as one whole? If this is an issue, how would you change things (other than "Improve the A.I.)?
You can't change this either. It's just how it is.
Post by: Tack on March 17, 2017, 11:49:55 pm
Medieval 3FTFY
But also yes would be so keen for a three kingdoms TW.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 18, 2017, 05:13:57 am
Post by: Tack on March 18, 2017, 06:27:53 am
IMO it allowed for a lot more tactical thought instead of playing the meta.
Post by: Retropunch on March 18, 2017, 07:25:45 am
Wouldn't Three Kingdoms be a bit boring regarding unit variety? That was the main rub in Shogun and Empire for me, despite both being good games. (Okay, Empire was bad at launch, but patches made it fun artillery slaughter simulator.)
Kinda agree with this - the main reason I love TW: Warhammer is due to how different the units are. In previous TWs (especially shogun) I felt like units were basically carbon copies with a few stat changes. I'm sure if you were into that time period they'd seem different, but they don't have nearly the same variety as Warhammer.
That being said, I get Tack's point on that it lessens the tactical thought - TW:W is basically rock paper scissors (as all combat boils down to really) but in a pretty black and white way. I'd prefer a bit more nuance, but hopefully they can combine the two somehow.
I'm not big into the Three Kingdoms time frame myself, and I don't know how popular it would be for general western mass consumption, but I'd be interested to see how they tackle it!
Post by: Tack on March 18, 2017, 08:21:52 am
TW:W is 'Vampire counts win every tournament' and then 'wood elves win every tournament', until the next flavor of the week hits meta.
Caveat incl. I don't play online all that often so it doesn't affect me, and crazy balance issues are a side-effect of creative race diversity (as evidenced in the original warhammer)
But I definitely feel as though the simplicity has its place, and is definitely a refreshing change now and again.
As for Three Kingdoms lore- If I'm weeb enough to enjoy Shogun, I could be cheeb enough to enjoy Emperor.
Post by: Retropunch on March 18, 2017, 12:08:14 pm
I'd say Shogun was rock paper scissors - Archers, Cavalry, Spears, Swords. Everything else is shock or support.
TW:W is 'Vampire counts win every tournament' and then 'wood elves win every tournament', until the next flavor of the week hits meta.
Caveat incl. I don't play online all that often so it doesn't affect me, and crazy balance issues are a side-effect of creative race diversity (as evidenced in the original warhammer)
But I definitely feel as though the simplicity has its place, and is definitely a refreshing change now and again.
As for Three Kingdoms lore- If I'm weeb enough to enjoy Shogun, I could be cheeb enough to enjoy Emperor.
Yeah I don't do competitive online with it or anything, so the meta doesn't really affect me at all. I had much better awesome tactical single player moments in TW:W than I did in previous ones because of how crazy the units are - shogun was sometimes the equivalent of trench warfare for me.
I definitely enjoyed the Shogun lore, but I think it's because the whole 'stylised Japanese history' of ninjas and geishas and Japanese warlords with crazy face masks is pretty sort of 'popular culture', whereas I'd be hard pressed to tell you much about the Three Kingdoms lore and I lived in China for a while.
Not saying it's not a cool historical time, just that I don't know if it's mainstream enough for them these days. Shogun was released at a time when games didn't need to be as mass consumable as well, so I don't know if they'll take the risk. I'd be happy if they did though.
Post by: umiman on March 18, 2017, 12:10:07 pm
But yeah, unit wise ancient China will probably have just the standard variety of units. Though I don't think it'll be any different from Rome 2 though. Except with shittonnes more crossbows.
Warfare in 220AD China involved almost entirely peasant levies led by small bands of trained fighters. The generals would usually lead these peasant levies by example from the front and the side with the more... "Valiant" general would be able to motivate his band of rabble to sweep the enemy from the field.
This is why there were so many duels during that time period. Because while there might have been 70,000 men in the battle (or 1,400,000 if you believe the Three Kingdoms book), only a few hundred would have been trained fighters. If let's say, Xu Huang defeated Guan Yu in melee combat, the rest of his peasants would have no motivation to fight.
That being said, there are a lot of exceptions to this and ancient Chinese warfare did had some differences from others.
Chief among them all is the fact that the ancient Chinese made extensive use of the crossbow. Even the repeating crossbow got some limited use. This was more than one thousand years before Europe started doing so.
China would equip practically all their levies with crossbows and spears. This is one reason why they had some massive levies to begin with as it's significantly easier to train a peasant to pull a trigger compared to using a spear wall or firing an arrow.
Additionally, if you believe the stuff that's in the Three Kingdoms book, there were some zany units like guys who only carried massive giant shield to form walls in combat, flamethrower tanks (lol zhuge Liang nonsense), chariots with spiked logs tied in between them, etc.
As far as I'm aware, other than the peasants, they did have heavy cavalry of multiple types (this was apparently the distinguishing power of the northern Chinese, think semi-mongols on one hand and classic heavy cavalry from places like modern day Beijing), heavy armored infantry (Cao Cao and the state of Wei really loved these, along with the heavy cavalry), and chariots. Chariots were considered superweapons back in those days.
As for artillery, they really only used small ballista and really rudimentary catapults (like those in shogun 2,). They did have siege towers of differing sorts though.
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tl;dr:
Units in China 220 AD:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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With all that being said, I would like to think that a Total War Three Kingdoms shouldn't involve the units way too much, strange as that sounds. The focus on that timeperiod was mostly on the generals and leaders because the soldiers were all peasants more or less.
That's why a real Three Kingdoms Total War would be about the stories about your individual generals. They'd be the ones charging into battle head first. They'd be the one slaying the enemy general and causing the enemy to rout. It'd be a story about them, their betrayals, loyalties, and individuality. The soldiers and numbers don't really matter because they're all peasants and will flee at the first sign of their impending defeat.
So maybe instead of having a large variety of units, Total War Three Kingdoms would instead have a roster like Shogun 2, but have hundreds of different individual generals and commanders instead.
But at the end of the day, it's just my fantasy.
Post by: Tack on March 18, 2017, 02:00:45 pm
Post by: umiman on March 18, 2017, 02:37:00 pm
Something something movie red cliff?If you want to watch a good show about Three Kingdoms, then I recommend Three Kingdoms, the 2010 version. In fact, you can watch the entire thing with fantastic English subtitles on Youtube here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL33A390995E9A7F00
Keep in mind this is based on the novel Three Kingdoms instead of actual history so you still get a lot of sillyness and nonhistory inside but it'll give a good impression of what warfare during that period was like.
----
As to why should you even be interested in all this, well... if you like Japan's Sengoku Jidai, this is basically that on a significantly larger scale with significantly more at stake. So much happened that two of the minor characters are now revered as gods in modern day... for.... some... reason. Man, I wish I could be a rapist bandit and become worshiped as a god. Even China's own warring states era which established the Qin empire when people like Sun Tzu and Confucius were alive and doing crazy shit is completely in the shadow of the Three Kingdoms period. Actually, come to think of it, I never realized Sun Tzu, Confucius, and Lao Zhi were all alive in the same time period. That's kinda nuts. That's like Napoleon, Buddha, and Voltaire being alive at the same time.
Anyway...
There's a reason why this story is immortalized as one of China's three greatest works of literature and why there's so many games and shows about it.
Hell, even the Japanese play more Dynasty Warriors (Three Kingdoms) than they do Samurai Warriors (Sengoku Jidai).
----
I think I should stop talking about this though. I've gone super off topic.
To go back on topic, there's a super popular map compilation pack on Steam Workshop here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=877551324
It basically puts in good community maps to replace existing maps for you to fight on in the campaign. I've tried it out and have had a hell of a lot of fun with it so far.
Though unfortunately, due to the map editor you still don't have walls you can deploy troops on traditionally and there are no gates or working towers. Still, I think it's way better than the shitty ass siege maps we have now.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 18, 2017, 09:12:54 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on March 18, 2017, 10:11:17 pm
-4 Chaos Warrior Regiments, one with halberds
-2 Forsaken (Gonna ditch them for Knights or Aspiring Champions when I can)
-3 Manticores
-2 Shaggoths
-4 Dragon Ogres
-2 Spawn
-2 Horsemasters
-Kholek himself
I'm styling it after Nidzilla armies from WH40K tabletop, because that was my specialty. Nothing says 'terror' like being simultaneously charged by 24 Dragon Ogres, three Shaggoths, twelve Chaos Spawn, three Manticores, and a seething morass of armored fodder. The Starcrusher mission was pretty entertaining with this setup. I had a running fight with the orcs while that Wyvern gave me a heap of trouble, with some help from the flying undead. Once I killed the Wyvern, I attacked the Undead army the right way: I held their infantry with mine and charged their two leaders with so many giant mutant monsters of pure rage. They died in moments and the army crumbled after hardly any combat at all. I kind of look forward to attacking the VC regions, once I figure out how to deal with that attrition.
Post by: Tack on March 18, 2017, 10:14:48 pm
Non-corrupted regions? Not on my watch.
Post by: umiman on March 18, 2017, 10:15:59 pm
Reasons to play Morghur the shadowgave. (beastmen)What about the neverending Chaos Spawn spawn?
Non-corrupted regions? Not on my watch.
Post by: Tack on March 18, 2017, 10:17:06 pm
Not that 'play another character' is a fix either...
Post by: umiman on March 20, 2017, 06:38:38 am
At first I tried it with Sigvald and it seemed to go pretty well. But after a hundred turns I realized... in one hundred turns I accomplished nothing. I couldn't defeat any nation as they would keep resettling all the ruins while I recovered. Not to mention because I didn't conquer Norsca, I kept having problems with the Norscan raiders killing off my awakened tribes and cutting off my reinforcement points.
I had to give up the Sigvald run when Sarthoreal spawned and whuped my unprepared arse who was stuck in the middle of enemy territory surrounded by enemies.
---------
So, round 2. Learned from mistakes.
Because I was and am using a mod to amp up unit sizes by 50%, I realized that Sigvald... kinda sucks when every unit is around 200 men strong. He barely does any AOE damage and very easily gets swarmed by all the troops.
So, for round 2 I brought out the big guns. Kholek Suneater. Who cares if enemies have 180 men per unit if I can squish them all just the same and then just walk out like no big deal.
Also, I completely and totally conquered the entirety of Norsca before even stepping one foot in human lands. It took something like 80 turns to conquer the whole thing, 80 turns of endless horse skirmishers and Surtha Ek's chariots.
It was actually quite fun, I have to admit, because of the neverending crazy cheatspawning that the AI does on legendary difficulty. I had so many intense battles with Kholek and his two other heroes going down to 5% hp fighting off hundreds of enemy marauders. I remember watching my sorcerer die four times in battle but after it ends he'd always just get back up and be alive with 1hp.
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Now though, now Kholek is basically invincible. His army is just him and 19 Shaggoths. Nothing can stop them. Sarthoreal got flattened almost instantly, the poor birdmanthing.
Not to mention now my subjugated tribes have their own neverending legendary-difficulty cheatspawn stacks to constantly send at the lands of men. We're steamrolling everything to such a ludicrious degree. Most of the human lands have been razed to the ground and I barely did any of them. The Norscans are winning the game for me.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 20, 2017, 06:54:48 am
Post by: Grim Portent on March 20, 2017, 08:37:36 am
How do keep the chariotvikings from killing each other? When I awakened tribes, they started fighting amongst themselves almost immediately.
Pick your favorite and kill off all the others. Subjugate the survivor and let them rebuild Norsca.
You only want to awaken enough tribes to unlock Sigvald really, after that it's best to make Norsca a single faction under your dominion.
In my first Chaos game, I think it was on Very Hard, I wound up being unable to get any lords other than Kholek to survive, because he was the first one and had the best army, the others couldn't find a safe place to build up. He wound up rampaging around the Old World with an army of Dragon Ogres, Shaggoths and a Death Sorcerer on a horse, constantly chased by four empire lords, including Franz and Gelt. Lightning Strike saw a lot of use in that campaign.
Because of how hard it was to fight the humans I eventually sailed down to the Badlands to help Grimgor fight the Dwarves, so I would have an ally in the wars up North. That took god damn forever because Grimgor had been getting his green ass handed to him on a silver platter for several dozen turns. The game ended with the last human settlement, I think it was Nuln, being besieged by Kholek, Grimgor and some Norscan lord.
Post by: Tack on March 20, 2017, 10:50:17 am
Infighting = building extra stacks.
An alternate fix is to awaken them, immediately reattack them and vassalize them, which is a handy neuter.
Post by: Teneb on March 20, 2017, 11:03:18 am
Post by: umiman on March 20, 2017, 11:59:28 am
Yeah I went favourite two and let them battle it out.Interestingly enough, I noticed that if you reattack and subjugate the awakened tribes, they will never declare war on one another and will always answer your call to battle.
Infighting = building extra stacks.
An alternate fix is to awaken them, immediately reattack them and vassalize them, which is a handy neuter.
However, if lets say you conquer Varg or the other guy who already exists and then subjugate their last settlement, they can and will declare war on one another and refuse your call to arms.
I'm not sure if it's because of the AI or because they're at -500 relationship with you after you burn down all their holdings.
Post by: Thexor on March 21, 2017, 12:41:02 am
Yeah I went favourite two and let them battle it out.Interestingly enough, I noticed that if you reattack and subjugate the awakened tribes, they will never declare war on one another and will always answer your call to battle.
Infighting = building extra stacks.
An alternate fix is to awaken them, immediately reattack them and vassalize them, which is a handy neuter.
However, if lets say you conquer Varg or the other guy who already exists and then subjugate their last settlement, they can and will declare war on one another and refuse your call to arms.
I'm not sure if it's because of the AI or because they're at -500 relationship with you after you burn down all their holdings.
If you re-attack and subjugate (vassalize) the tribes, then they're considered vassals, which means they can't declare war on each other. Or anybody else, for that matter. Their diplomatic status is fixed to yours, so they will automatically join any wars you wage and peace out when you peace out (not that that's an option for Chaos!). The only diplomatic options they have are signing trade agreements, receiving gifts, and seceding from vassalage, and that last one only happens if they have a seriously low opinion of you. Seeing as how awakened tribes have a fixed high opinion modifier for Chaos, that's not likely to happen!
That said, I could totally see the Varg seceding, since they'd have a very low opinion of you. Sadly, subjugating a faction doesn't fix any negative thoughts they have towards you, perhaps because you just razed a dozen of their settlements and smashed three of their 20-stacks; the only advantage you get is the "treaties with Chaos" modifier from having the vassal treaty. The awakened tribes have a big positive opinion modifier for Chaos, plus you've only fought one of their armies and conquered one of their settlements before you subjugated them, so it makes sense that they'd have a fair opinion of you even after you vassalize them. The Varg and Skaeling... not so much!
Post by: Majestic7 on March 21, 2017, 02:21:44 am
Post by: umiman on March 21, 2017, 02:30:20 am
So it is best to exterminate Varg & Skaelings, but awaken & subjugate the others. Do the vassals turn against you in the birdy bird event, tho? So is it just wasted effort till then?The vassalized awakened tribes are basically your loyal dogs.
If you play on legendary, I recommend you get as many awakened tribes as you can as each of them cheatspawns stacks. So the more awakened you get, the more cheatspawns you get.
Also I found giving your vassalized awakened tribes targets is really bad for their AI as it gets them all fucky and lost. But if I leave them alone, they'll usually do useful things like reclaim razed land and attack enemies.
You have plenty of time to conquer all of Norsca. No need to feel particularly rushed to do it. Birdman usually spawns around turn 105 or thereabouts so if you get to turn 100, start making sure you have a full stack of prepared units. I also think that the amount of stacks Birdman spawns with is determined by how many stacks you yourself have. Whenever I only have one single army, Birdman only has one as well.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 21, 2017, 03:25:38 am
I did spend one game vassalizing all the norscan tribes. Though I think that ended up with them declaring war on each other and forcing me to pick sides, inevitably annoying all of them as I lost diplomatic reliability. I think now it's best to stick with only one of the tribes and flatten the others as it saves hassel later on.
Giving orders to enemy armies I've found rather unreliable. Chances are, if I'm sieging a city and an ally has an army nearby and I ask them to attack the city as well, they won't help.
I don't know. The're not as obedient as Waaagh! armies, maybe I should wait until I get that message about "Your ally plans to attack X target within the next few turns".
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2017, 11:07:11 am
---
My chaos campaign is currently stuck against the dwarfs. We can't make headway into each other. Every time we butt heads, we lose so many men.
It's not really because I can't defeat them in battle. It's because I don't have any good ways to deal with the bleeding Gyrocopters.
Not to mention Kholek is kinda busy burning down Athel Loren. Turns out an army of just dragon ogres is amazing at killing elves.
Post by: Retropunch on March 23, 2017, 11:43:14 am
So the countdown teaser for Warhammer 2 is on the website. But we all knew it was coming anyway right? The real trailer will come out next Friday.
It kinda just seems...way too soon.
I just can't imagine it'll be any different mechanics/engine wise - It'll just be basically a big DLC pack of a different area. To be honest though, I don't know what you can expect from Sega's money grabbing-ness.
Post by: Teneb on March 23, 2017, 12:15:59 pm
Post by: Tack on March 23, 2017, 12:54:45 pm
I daresay Khemri will be added along with the Chaos wastes and Maw, along with the Chaos dwarves and Ogre kingdoms.
Cynical speculation aside, I'm keen for skaven.
It kinda just seems...way too soon.I seem to have planted myself as resident CA fanboy, so I'll blindly defend them real quick.
I just can't imagine it'll be any different mechanics/engine wise - It'll just be basically a big DLC pack of a different area. To be honest though, I don't know what you can expect from Sega's money grabbing-ness.
1. They've said they have two teams, one making "main games", and the other making "DLC". The 'Warhammer 2' team started work immediately after the release of number 1. Granted, it's only been a year, but at this point they just need to make races. (And maybe ship combat??)
2. They started with the intention that the sequels would "bolt on" to eachother. Which means that they can't change the engine too much without reneging on that promise.
3. They did engine-copying previously with Rome-Attila.... which is shit.
4. Engines are expensive yo.
But yes, I'd treat it as an expansion. A big big expansion.
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2017, 01:17:57 pm
Post by: Shadowlord on March 23, 2017, 02:12:46 pm
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2017, 04:13:05 pm
Stellaris came out the same month as Total Warhammer; Can you imagine if Paradox were to announce Stellaris 2 at this point?I can understand your disbelief but don't forget this is SEGA. They're mega DLC whores.
Not to mention this was ALWAYS in the plan. Even before Warhammer 1 came out they already said this would be a three-part series.
Part 1 was Old World.
Part 2 is New World.
Part 3 is Chaos (and expansion of the Old World map to the East and South).
It's why I tell people if you want to wait for the super mega complete version, then it'll take three years and about $300 worth of DLC by the end.
Post by: Tack on March 23, 2017, 06:51:36 pm
They've been using the same engine since Shogun 2.Shogun 2 didn't even have real walls though.
Is that why Rome 2's formations were so lacking?
Defensive Testudo sucked balls.
Three years and about $300 worth of DLC by the end.Is it sad that this is fast and cheap compared to the actual hobby?
Post by: Teneb on March 23, 2017, 07:14:50 pm
Defensive Testudo sucked balls.I like it. It is excellent against missile-heavy armies. Just pop it and wait until they run out of ammo.
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2017, 07:23:23 pm
Off the top of my head, units lost a lot of intrinsic mass.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The older engines were also way better suited at large scale combat, partially due to how it was just older with poorer graphics in general, but also because it didn't have the big focus on sync kills like they have now. This had another effect which the modern Total Wars don't really have (with the exception of Warhammer, where they fumbled it back in).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's also things like how now units rotate on their axis instead of turning like a normal creature (look at Skarsnik for an example, he rotates with Gobbla 360 degrees) or how units slide around on the battlefield sometimes like they're all standing on flying carpets.
I actually recommend you DON'T look up examples or differences between the engines because once you see all the problems with the new one, you can't help but notice them all the time after that.
I should point out I did make one mistake earlier. They didn't introduce the new engine with Shogun 2. They introduced it with Empire. It's called the Warscape Engine.
Post by: Teneb on March 23, 2017, 07:28:55 pm
-snip-Besides all that, there is one thing that was critical in the old total wars that no longer exists: if you walk a unit through another in the newer games, they get tangled up. If you do it in Rome or Medieval 2, the soldiers in the stationary unit will actually open little "hallways" so their comrades can go through.
Post by: umiman on March 23, 2017, 07:29:31 pm
Heh, the best part was that not all units would do this.-snip-Besides all that, there is one thing that was critical in the old total wars that no longer exists: if you walk a unit through another in the newer games, they get tangled up. If you do it in Rome or Medieval 2, the soldiers in the stationary unit will actually open little "hallways" so their comrades can go through.
Only the trained ones. It was amazing.
All that being said, I don't really mind this engine all so much though I would like it if they got something better for the next historical game. My main issue with this engine is that the unit counts are so tiny. Trying to get a 10,000 men battle in Warscape requires a supercomputer made from the fires of Mt. Doom. You can do 20,000 men battles in Medieval 2 no problem at all. Even in 2010 I remember doing crazy massive battles in it.
If they really go to China, they HAVE to get battles larger than what they do now.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 24, 2017, 03:27:18 am
I really miss the differences between formation-based trained units and mobs from older games. That corridor-system and the way troops pushed each other. Formation troops always sliced through mob-troops etc due to units mass and coherence. It was an excellent way to portray difference between warriors and soldiers without giving large differences in stats. Would still be a nice way to differentiate, say, orcs and Imperials or peasant levies and professional footmen.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on March 24, 2017, 04:07:27 am
It's entirely useless when you need to actually command, but a fun little toy if you're watching a replay or something.
Post by: umiman on March 24, 2017, 04:22:41 am
I used the first person camera in Shogun, where it actually went into the soldier's perspectives. I was under the impression they replaced this with the boring 'hovering over unit' cam, or did they re-add it here?You're correct. They replaced it with the 3rd person camera.
It's entirely useless when you need to actually command, but a fun little toy if you're watching a replay or something.
I significantly preferred the first person version in Shogun 2. I remember watching entire ship battles in it (because honestly there's nothing to do in ship battles pre-Fall of the Samurai). I would cheer on for my character.
In fact, I uploaded a screenshot of it back in 2011:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's nowhere near that immersive now with the third person. Though the models and animations in Warhammer are the stuff of legend. I really can never get over how gorgeous Warhammer looks.
By the way, did you know if you went into unit camera, you'd actually confer a tiny little stat buff to that unit? It was so they'd live longer I think. So if you're in a final 1v1 situation against someone, might as well go into unit camera to give yourself a little boost.
Post by: Exerosp on March 24, 2017, 04:43:45 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 24, 2017, 05:22:00 am
Speaking of the coming announcement on the 31st of March; there's a lil somethin somethin on that front. (https://comingsoon.totalwar.com/)
Post by: Retropunch on March 24, 2017, 06:03:27 am
Okay so what, people are mad that Warhammer is releasing Warhammer 2? Which is a weird way to name an expansion, imo. It's just a special kind of DLC, people.
I mean, it's completely expected as it is Sony we're talking about but I was still a bit shocked that they'd go for such a blatant 'that's another Ł50 please' so soon.
Whilst I wasn't expecting a whole new engine, I'd at least expect them to have iterated on the past one a bit. I can't even imagine they'd have had time to sort of learn from mistakes and improve it at this point. The graphics/unit count/etc. can't be any better really as in the last year not much has changed computer power wise, and so it'll literally just be more races.
That's fine, but I wish they'd just admit that rather than pretend it's a whole new game.
Post by: Teneb on March 24, 2017, 06:37:21 am
Okay so what, people are mad that Warhammer is releasing Warhammer 2? Which is a weird way to name an expansion, imo. It's just a special kind of DLC, people.Not quite. It's more of an "expandalone" in that you don't need to own Warhammer 1 to play it.
EDIT: where are people mad, anyway? I haven't managed to find anything of the sort.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 24, 2017, 06:48:18 am
Post by: scriver on March 24, 2017, 07:05:09 am
Stellaris came out the same month as Total Warhammer; Can you imagine if Paradox were to announce Stellaris 2 at this point?I can understand your disbelief but don't forget this is SEGA. They're mega DLC whores.
Not to mention this was ALWAYS in the plan. Even before Warhammer 1 came out they already said this would be a three-part series.
Part 1 was Old World.
Part 2 is New World.
Part 3 is Chaos (and expansion of the Old World map to the East and South).
It's why I tell people if you want to wait for the super mega complete version, then it'll take three years and about $300 worth of DLC by the end.
Well I'm suddenly very happy I never actually got around to buying Total Warhammer. Probably not buying Total Warhammer 2 either if they're going to make a Thirdhammer next year.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 24, 2017, 07:59:39 am
Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
As for the the release of the next part of Warhammer: Total War. I'm fine with it since they explained their plans early on before the release of the first part, it's planned to have 4 unique races again, probably a whole new map with all the battle maps and details that go along with that, as well as adding on to the existing game for an expanded campaign map.
I've gotten a lot of play out of the first part, so much so that I haven't bought any other games since it came out. The price could be a bit high, but in Australia games release for $100 AUD ($76 USD) as the norm so $60 USD ($78 AUD) is cheaper than usual anyway. It's why I buy games on Steam and not at EB Games. JB HiFi can be cheaper sometimes but boxed copies come with so little now I don't consider them worth buying.
Post by: Exerosp on March 24, 2017, 11:53:23 am
Oh I typed that horribly, think of people as a select few and not many. It's a standalone expansion yeah and Sony or whatever can be cash greedy, given how much they charge for how little feature, but I quite like that they're finally fleshing out a game.Okay so what, people are mad that Warhammer is releasing Warhammer 2? Which is a weird way to name an expansion, imo. It's just a special kind of DLC, people.Not quite. It's more of an "expandalone" in that you don't need to own Warhammer 1 to play it.
EDIT: where are people mad, anyway? I haven't managed to find anything of the sort.
Whoever said that they're making it with a new engine, I hope not. Since then it'd be a pretty empty game with just 4 factions again and I'd say the company needs to be buried.
Post by: umiman on March 24, 2017, 12:31:15 pm
2. No one said they're making a new engine. That would be extremely unlikely.
By the way, what do you guys think the preorder DLC race will be?
I bet it's Skaven. Since they did frigging Chaos last time, the shmucks.
Post by: Teneb on March 24, 2017, 12:42:44 pm
1. It's Sega, not Sony.I think someone on reddit pointed out that there are exactly 8 tabletop races left (not counting Dogs of War). Since it's usually 4 base factions, that means pre-order would end up being one of the minors instead. Probably Tilea or Estalia since they got colonies in the New World, using the Dogs of War units if Tilea.
2. No one said they're making a new engine. That would be extremely unlikely.
By the way, what do you guys think the preorder DLC race will be?
I bet it's Skaven. Since they did frigging Chaos last time, the shmucks.
Post by: Tack on March 24, 2017, 01:06:16 pm
I wonder if there'll be a game mechanic for the relashionship between the various lizardman races..
Post by: Teneb on March 24, 2017, 01:21:37 pm
I wonder if there'll be a game mechanic for the relashionship between the various lizardman races..Why would there be? They are basically biological robots serving the Great Plan... even if they don't know exactly what it is.
Post by: umiman on March 24, 2017, 02:02:21 pm
I wonder if they'll represent this in the game somewhat.
And maybe FIX magic without us relying on Cataph to do it.
Who am I kidding, sieges and magic are here to stay in this current shitty form.
Post by: Teneb on March 24, 2017, 03:13:59 pm
One interesting thing to note is that the "real" elves and the Slann aren't limited to singular schools of magic like the Old World is. They have access to everything.I would like to note that Wood Elves should have access to all eight lores of battle magic, high magic and dark magic. Yet, don't. Also amethyst (and gold) wizards are missing in the empire. I hope they don't cut lores from the elves and slann.
I wonder if they'll represent this in the game somewhat.
And maybe FIX magic without us relying on Cataph to do it.
Who am I kidding, sieges and magic are here to stay in this current shitty form.
Post by: Persus13 on March 24, 2017, 05:43:18 pm
Post by: Exerosp on March 24, 2017, 06:45:17 pm
1. It's Sega, not Sony.
2. No one said they're making a new engine. That would be extremely unlikely.
I'm not so sure how to do the proper highlighting thing. Anyways, sorry for the confusion! I mostly just confused myself!Okay so what, people are mad that Warhammer is releasing Warhammer 2? Which is a weird way to name an expansion, imo. It's just a special kind of DLC, people.
I mean, it's completely expected as it is Sony we're talking about but I was still a bit shocked that they'd go for such a blatant 'that's another Ł50 please' so soon.
Whilst I wasn't expecting a whole new engine, I'd at least expect them to have iterated on the past one a bit. I can't even imagine they'd have had time to sort of learn from mistakes and improve it at this point. The graphics/unit count/etc. can't be any better really as in the last year not much has changed computer power wise, and so it'll literally just be more races.
Post by: Tack on March 24, 2017, 08:43:18 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on March 24, 2017, 08:50:09 pm
Post by: umiman on March 24, 2017, 09:20:33 pm
So apparently Beast lore magic users for Bretonnia can't summon Manticores, despite that being an option in their skill tree.Yes they can.
Post by: Persus13 on March 24, 2017, 09:25:54 pm
Weird, because I went into battle with one and that spell option wasn't there. Is there some limit to when it can be used I'm not aware of?So apparently Beast lore magic users for Bretonnia can't summon Manticores, despite that being an option in their skill tree.Yes they can.
Post by: umiman on March 24, 2017, 10:45:03 pm
Yes, if you exceed your unit limit of battle (20 for campaigns unless you turned off large battles then it's 10) then you can't summon any more units until you lose them somehow.Weird, because I went into battle with one and that spell option wasn't there. Is there some limit to when it can be used I'm not aware of?So apparently Beast lore magic users for Bretonnia can't summon Manticores, despite that being an option in their skill tree.Yes they can.
In skirmishes it also depends on whether large battles is enabled.
If the icon is missing entirely, it probably means you either didn't learn it or some mod is conflicting with it or something.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 25, 2017, 06:50:07 am
It is still kind of silly if they ask 50/60 bucks for it. That will make the finished game worth 150 bucks plus 60 bucks of DLC's per installment, so... something like 330 bucks. And people say Paradox whores DLCs?
..Did people just start hating standalone expansions nowadays? I remember Dawn of War did this too, unlocking new races with each expansion to the game.
Post by: Neonivek on March 25, 2017, 06:53:46 am
It is still kind of silly if they ask 50/60 bucks for it. That will make the finished game worth 150 bucks plus 60 bucks of DLC's per installment, so... something like 330 bucks. And people say Paradox whores DLCs?
..Did people just start hating standalone expansions nowadays? I remember Dawn of War did this too, unlocking new races with each expansion to the game.
It depends... Do you mean Standalone expansions?..
Or do you mean entirely separate games that borrow assets from the original title? (You know... in the same way Pokémon Moon is the stand alone expansion for Pokémon Sun)
Because people started to hate standalone expansions somewhere around the time they stopped being expansions.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 25, 2017, 07:13:58 am
It is still kind of silly if they ask 50/60 bucks for it. That will make the finished game worth 150 bucks plus 60 bucks of DLC's per installment, so... something like 330 bucks. And people say Paradox whores DLCs?
..Did people just start hating standalone expansions nowadays? I remember Dawn of War did this too, unlocking new races with each expansion to the game.
It depends... Do you mean Standalone expansions?..
Or do you mean entirely separate games that borrow assets from the original title? (You know... in the same way Pokémon Moon is the stand alone expansion for Pokémon Sun)
Because people started to hate standalone expansions somewhere around the time they stopped being expansions.
Considering that they combine together, It's a standalone expansion.
Post by: Retropunch on March 25, 2017, 07:16:54 am
It is still kind of silly if they ask 50/60 bucks for it. That will make the finished game worth 150 bucks plus 60 bucks of DLC's per installment, so... something like 330 bucks. And people say Paradox whores DLCs?
..Did people just start hating standalone expansions nowadays? I remember Dawn of War did this too, unlocking new races with each expansion to the game.
Standalone expansions used to make sense though - when DoW did this there wasn't a platform for delivering new content directly into games like steam.
The issue with this is that it seems like they're just renaming a DLC package as a second game to make it sound like it's something that it isn't. They know that they'd be hard pressed to get people to fork over another Ł50 for a few more races, and couldn't charge for extra stuff like blood & gore packs and whatever if it was just part of the base game.
It just seems like marketing semantics rather than actually providing something new.
Post by: Neonivek on March 25, 2017, 07:18:57 am
It is excessively priced... You don't charge extra for standalone expansions because you can play them separately. That isn't how they work on the market.
Assuming that Zebio is right and they do combine (and not like... there is an extra mode that is the stand alone expansion and they do not otherwise interact in anyway)
Post by: Tack on March 25, 2017, 07:49:09 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 25, 2017, 07:53:28 am
It is still kind of silly if they ask 50/60 bucks for it. That will make the finished game worth 150 bucks plus 60 bucks of DLC's per installment, so... something like 330 bucks. And people say Paradox whores DLCs?
..Did people just start hating standalone expansions nowadays? I remember Dawn of War did this too, unlocking new races with each expansion to the game.
Standalone expansions used to make sense though - when DoW did this there wasn't a platform for delivering new content directly into games like steam.
The issue with this is that it seems like they're just renaming a DLC package as a second game to make it sound like it's something that it isn't. They know that they'd be hard pressed to get people to fork over another Ł50 for a few more races, and couldn't charge for extra stuff like blood & gore packs and whatever if it was just part of the base game.
It just seems like marketing semantics rather than actually providing something new.
A few more races and two to three new continents worth of things to add. It's not like you could just add Dark Elfs to the game and not have Naggarond and the new world. Same with Lizardmen and Lustria, High Elfs and Ulthuan. It isn't like they can just add a few new buildings, a mechanic or two and somehow plop them down in the Old World.
Quote
Assuming that Zebio is right and they do combine (and not like... there is an extra mode that is the stand alone expansion and they do not otherwise interact in anyway)Well it is what they mentioned.
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2017, 08:22:25 am
I also wonder what the big end game is gunna be. At first I thought that maybe it'd be a copy of the chaos rising stuff in the first game except maybe with demons instead of warriors, but thinking about it if they put both elves and demons into this second game that might be blowing their load a bit too early. Like, skaven, ogres, and tomb kings are all really cool, but they aren't exactly box cover material for the third game. I guess it could still be warriors of chaos, with the dark elves facing the warriors and the high elves and lizardmen facing Norse raiders. But I hope it's something a bit different.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on March 25, 2017, 08:27:37 am
Quote
I wonder how they are going to handle lizardman public order. I'm not a huge warhammer lore aficionado, but my understanding is that the lizardmen and skinks going against their slann is pretty uncommon, and in general even the mage priests work together very well. I guess they could still justify it in some ways, like a slann raising a rebellion because, idk, he somehow contemplated that he needed too. But it seems like it'd feel a little weak to me to be honest.
They fixed this with Dwarfs where instead of Dwarfs hitting their own kind it's large groups of Orcs looking to cause problems. I assume in this stead it'll be Skaven causing problems instead.
Post by: Criptfeind on March 25, 2017, 08:36:59 am
Skaven could be a pretty great late game threat though. Work very much like chaos does now I guess. When you play them they are super fractured and need to be pulled together into a big threat, when the computer plays them they get pulled together naturally into an unending tide of fur?
Post by: Teneb on March 25, 2017, 09:45:52 am
Ah, right, that'd make sense, of course. I guess that'd require Skaven to be in as an at least non playable faction along with the lizardmen. I wonder what the third game would be then demons+ogres+tomb kings+.....Chaos dwarfs? Like the south pole up along the mountains...?South Pole and Southlands, as well as the Far East, is most likely never appear. Third expansion will likely expand it southwards to cover Araby and Khemri and east to cover the Dark Lands and the Mountains of Mourn.
Skaven could be a pretty great late game threat though. Work very much like chaos does now I guess. When you play them they are super fractured and need to be pulled together into a big threat, when the computer plays them they get pulled together naturally into an unending tide of fur?
Skaven should not be allowed to confederate. Betrayal and infighting is a huge thing for them. Going to be somewhat disappointed if they can.
Post by: umiman on March 25, 2017, 11:07:22 am
Ah, right, that'd make sense, of course. I guess that'd require Skaven to be in as an at least non playable faction along with the lizardmen. I wonder what the third game would be then demons+ogres+tomb kings+.....Chaos dwarfs? Like the south pole up along the mountains...?The third game will be about Chaos divided.
Skaven could be a pretty great late game threat though. Work very much like chaos does now I guess. When you play them they are super fractured and need to be pulled together into a big threat, when the computer plays them they get pulled together naturally into an unending tide of fur?
It's why Chaos is in such a funky state right now, it was never meant to be playable as originally the plan was to wait until the third game before you could play them.
------
If some of you newcomers are lost as to how we know all this, it's because CA's DLC plans were leaked about a year ago by Russian dataminers here: http://totalwars.ru/index.php/total-war-warhammer-news/2576-total-war-warhammer-fb-dlc-and-expansion-pack-plans.html
CA has added more stuff since then but the race releases have been spot on. That leak came out before Beastmen DLC.
Anyway, the leak says that Game 2 will have three playable races (both elves and lizardmen) while Skaven and Tomb Kings will be DLC. Game 3 again will be just Chaos with Chaos Dwarfs and Ogres as DLC.
I forgot to check this earlier. So yeah, probably Tilea or Estalia will be preorder DLC then.
Post by: Tack on March 25, 2017, 11:56:57 am
They're a pretty ungainly pair.
As for Skaven, yes to confederations but it would be better if they can split. Screw rebel armies- rebel Cities.
Also, warpstone as special resource? Chaos corruption affinity?
Thoughts?
Post by: Teneb on March 25, 2017, 12:25:46 pm
Post by: lordcooper on March 25, 2017, 11:49:30 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 26, 2017, 08:59:55 am
It'd be interesting if corruption levels in a region affected the available troops. Low corruption gives you hordes of cheap trash units, high corruption brings out the expensive mutants.That would work best for daemons, not skaven.
Post by: Tack on March 26, 2017, 09:17:40 am
But that's silly to dream.
Also- Is it just me or is Narragoth and Ulthuan pretty single-race dominated, whilst Lustria has Lizards, Rats, Undead, Amazons, Norse and whatever else.
Post by: Teneb on March 27, 2017, 07:51:45 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 27, 2017, 09:03:06 am
Beastmen, Greenskins and Chaos in Naggaroth. There are greenskins in Lustria as well as some human colonies and vampire pirates. Ulthuan has much less but they do get attacked reguarly by Dark Elves and I think also Daemons (Since, even though there is the Vortex, there's still a lot of magic floating around especially in places like Saphrey). I believe one of the lore pieces is the Phoenix Gate (One of 5 gates that link the inner kingdoms of Ulthuan from the outer kingdoms) gets destroyed pretty much whenever it is rebuilt. Greenskins have attacked Ulthuan as Grom the Paunch landed with his army and raided around for a bit before being driven into the sea.
I imagine Ulthuan could have events where Waystones get sabotaged by chaos influenced High Elves allowing armies to spawn in Ulthuan. Ulthuan is layed out like the inner coast of the ring is rather peaceful but the outer ring is raided, haunted by ghosts, fallen cities, flooded coasts and wild beasts (not beastmen but more like Manticores I think).
Post by: Tack on March 27, 2017, 09:32:47 am
Post by: Teneb on March 27, 2017, 01:51:10 pm
Post by: Tack on March 27, 2017, 02:08:44 pm
Smart, probably.
Post by: TempAcc on March 27, 2017, 02:12:45 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 27, 2017, 02:56:36 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 27, 2017, 03:04:16 pm
That's how Empire total war worked too, although it was a self-contained game.Empire only allowed transitions in specific spots, while I have no idea about med 1.
Post by: TempAcc on March 27, 2017, 03:52:35 pm
Post by: Teneb on March 27, 2017, 03:57:21 pm
I know med 2 did it (IIRC), no idea about the first one.Um. No it didn't. It had a single map, and the expansion added 4 different campaigns with their own maps. They don't interact in any way shape or form.
Post by: TempAcc on March 27, 2017, 04:01:57 pm
EDIT: actualy, I was right, you can go to the americas by sailing off the west edge of the map on Med 2. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3xc4dKoqQg)
Post by: Teneb on March 27, 2017, 04:52:25 pm
Maybe I'm confusing medieval 2 with empires then? I played both several years ago, I just know that was a thing the total war series did at one point or another.It's not another map, though. It's just a part of the map you can't normally go to until you hit a specific point in the game. It's always there, just covered by fog of war. If you use the console, you can see it rather easily.
EDIT: actualy, I was right, you can go to the americas by sailing off the west edge of the map on Med 2. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3xc4dKoqQg)
Post by: Mech#4 on March 27, 2017, 10:21:23 pm
Spoiler: Bretonnia Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
As for the maps in previous games. In Medieval 2 when the turns reached a specific number the map would expand to the west, unveiling the East coast of the Americas. In Empire: Total War the map was a mix of continuous and seperate maps where India was on the same map as Europe (though they had seperate minimaps) while the Americas and the smaller trading hubs (Ivory Coast etc) were seperate and you needed to sail a fleet between them via icons on the map edge.
For what they'll do with Warhammer: Total War; I suspect they'll have one continuous map. I wonder whether they'll do something interesting to represent the sea monsters that plague the oceans in Warhammer.
Post by: Tack on March 28, 2017, 02:30:30 am
The notes on the next patch have been put up. Focusing mostly on Bretonnia it fixes a few things to do with their campaign and buildings as well as some balancing changes such as the Foot Squires. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/193101/bretonnia-patch-public-beta-11am-gmt#latest)Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on March 28, 2017, 02:32:03 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 31, 2017, 10:33:12 am
Spoiler: Stuff about trailer (click to show/hide)
Post by: Retropunch on March 31, 2017, 11:09:30 am
I imagine that they'll see a bit too similar to the Vampire Counts (for non WH fans especially) so it's probably the best way of getting them in - if they go down the construct way with them though it could be interesting enough for a Wood Elf style expansion.
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 11:50:45 am
I'm glad Skaven won't be DLC so Tomb Kings or Estalia / Tilea probably will be.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 31, 2017, 11:52:50 am
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 12:00:02 pm
Quote
Is naval combat happening?
Only in autoresolve. Warhammer Fantasy Battles is principally a game about land warfare, so that’s where we’re choosing to focus our efforts in terms of full battle simulation. There are some new sea-related campaign features that we will detail in the future.
Welp, so much for that.
---
You know I never really was interested in any of this as I don't care for Elves and only minorly care for dinosaurs... but then I remembered Skaven have gatling guns.
I want to mow people down with gatling guns.
It also makes me curious how they'll handle the combined super map. The blog talks about how they have to tweak some things and maybe remove some minor races so turn times aren't excessive but they want to keep it as much a sandbox as possible. The elves generally only have minor enclaves in the old world (though they probably don't at the start) but we all know there may or may not be massive undercities populated with certain rodents under every single capital city.
So if they do do that... does that mean the Empire is going to get even more roflstomped than it does already? Those poor humans.
----
Oh, and the whole vortex thing doesn't matter for old worlders according to the same blog.
Post by: nenjin on March 31, 2017, 12:19:54 pm
Post by: Flying Carcass on March 31, 2017, 12:36:56 pm
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 12:40:51 pm
Gotta' be honest, I question the sense in calling it Warhammer II. When I first saw the announcement I thought it was a sequel rather than an expansion so my first reaction was "wtf, didn't they just make one of these?".Wait till you see Warhammer III next year.
Post by: Teneb on March 31, 2017, 12:49:14 pm
Also sad it was Mazdamundi and not Kroak. I want my undead Pepe.
Post by: Majestic7 on March 31, 2017, 01:13:28 pm
Post by: TempAcc on March 31, 2017, 01:20:01 pm
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 01:38:17 pm
They could've just called it THE LUSTRIA EXPANSION or THE JUNGLES FULL OF SCALIES AND THE OCASIONAL FURRY ALSO ELVES.If they did that, they wouldn't be able to charge you full price for the thing.
Post by: Criptfeind on March 31, 2017, 01:59:25 pm
Post by: Tack on March 31, 2017, 04:02:53 pm
Not sure if he's got Lv900 sneer or burn-victim rictus. But either way I don't feel particularly happy about his model.
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 04:13:09 pm
Is it just me or is malekith pretty ugly?Isn't that just a gold-plated mask?
Not sure if he's got Lv900 sneer or burn-victim rictus. But either way I don't feel particularly happy about his model.
Post by: Hanslanda on March 31, 2017, 04:15:17 pm
Post by: Tack on March 31, 2017, 04:20:34 pm
If they put teeth on a mask I'm even more annoyed.Is it just me or is malekith pretty ugly?Isn't that just a gold-plated mask?
Not sure if he's got Lv900 sneer or burn-victim rictus. But either way I don't feel particularly happy about his model.
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 04:24:34 pm
Eh, that was a GW move. Later vampires models all seem to have some type of 'slowed decay' looking crap about them, with the vague exception of the relatively young and magically gifted Manfriedd.Pretty sure they did. You can see his real skin in the eye holes.If they put teeth on a mask I'm even more annoyed.Is it just me or is malekith pretty ugly?Isn't that just a gold-plated mask?
Not sure if he's got Lv900 sneer or burn-victim rictus. But either way I don't feel particularly happy about his model.
Edit: Also all his GW models has him wearing a gold mask. No teeth though.
I thought this was a fairly weak trailer myself. CA makes some seriously badass trailers like the stuff they did for Napoleon, Fall of the Samurai, Shogun 2, and all the Warhammer awesomeness. This one was just... meh. No cool dialogue or real battles.
Post by: Tack on March 31, 2017, 04:29:44 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Those teeth are worryingly shiny, true. But they seem about as recessed as the eyes.
Post by: umiman on March 31, 2017, 04:35:42 pm
I'd ask if it was possible to gold-plate gums... but since a certain useless Lore of Metal caster exists.... I guess technically it can be done?
Post by: Tack on March 31, 2017, 04:38:56 pm
But yes. I can accept that's a mask with teeth.
Now I hate him.
Also, surprised they didn't do an april fools thing.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 31, 2017, 09:37:43 pm
I don't know if the entire livestream is available to watch if people, like me, missed it. Perhaps give it some time and someone will upload a copy somewhere.
Post by: lordcooper on March 31, 2017, 10:33:07 pm
Looks like they're dropping the occupation restrictions. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOBY1LGeON0&feature=youtu.be&t=23m16s)
Post by: sambojin on April 02, 2017, 07:13:48 pm
Post by: Tack on April 02, 2017, 07:26:33 pm
Post by: Persus13 on April 02, 2017, 07:50:52 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 02, 2017, 09:49:59 pm
Manning artillery yourself is more than a time-waster if you have better aim than the AI.But then you can't do the necessary micro with the whole army
Post by: Persus13 on April 03, 2017, 12:27:54 pm
Post by: Shub-Nullgurath on April 03, 2017, 12:32:39 pm
Post by: umiman on April 03, 2017, 01:11:17 pm
In FotS, you frequently got into 1v1 artillery duels, especially in sieges where you'd try to snipe the other person's armstrong / parrot gun. It was pretty intense, especially since a lot of people played on tiny unit sizes which meant you only had one gun each. I remember my general had all the ranged attack boosting skills like increased reload and increased damage just to win those battles. I'd place him next to the gun, activate all the skills, have the gun activate that firing skill, and try to blast the enemy's cannon before they killed mine.
Even used the exploit where you wait for your gun to shoot by itself, and then you manually shoot again instantly.
Good times.
It was also the only way to win ironclad ship duels. Because the Kotetsu had a front cannon, everyone would snipe each other with Kotetsus from maximum range.
Post by: Teneb on April 04, 2017, 02:14:44 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on April 05, 2017, 01:56:44 am
I won the campaign on that set up (plus a steam tank per army).
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2017, 02:45:30 am
I don't tend to make much use of the Steam Tank, later artillery or the Demi-gryph knights because they take so long to construct all the buildings for them and I like taking advantage of the unique buildings in settlements. I don't usually build artillery unless it's in Nuln because of the Gunnery School.
I do try and keep at least 4 units of Crossbows though. They're very useful for keeping Marauder Horsemen off your flanks. Flagellants also for protection from flanking/rear charges.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 05, 2017, 02:48:40 am
Don't crossbows lose their effectiveness quite quickly due to lack of armor-piercing? I've found outriders to be good in the same role since they can shoot over infantry when necessary.
Post by: Tack on April 05, 2017, 02:52:32 am
I personally prefer musketeers for the AP reason (in my vschaos armies, anyway), but then the LoS block means I can only field at most two to hit wings and bait cavalry.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2017, 04:29:43 am
Aside: Hellstorm Rocket Battery's can friendly fire units placed a bit in front of them, sometimes a rocket skims low to the ground. Damn misfires.
The lack of armour piercing isn't that big of a deal I find as I use the crossbows against light cavalry skirmishers. Having a mage that can lower armour value (or the Helm of Discord) helps against more heavily armoured units, and more assault focused units tend to lack shields. Outriders are probably better but they require the artillery tree which... well... see Nuln Gunnery point.
Other than that, units of Pistoleers stay in my forces for a while. Usually 2 units for flanking and chasing fleeing units.
As for the Nuln Gunnery, it's a hang up I have. I don't want to build artillery without the bonuses, which means waiting until I have Nuln to build the artillery tree.
A bit more on artillery: It's a bit of a problem with them. Artillery is difficult to use in a setting where most of the factions focus on melee combat. Putting artillery in the front lines means clear line of sight but less time to fire until the enemy are within melee. Putting them behind means possible friendly fire and low line of sight when enemies get closer to your frontline. Putting artillery on hills helps but it's hard to do that playing offensively. Plus you need to keep units in reserve to fend off flanking units of chaos hounds/dire wolves.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 05, 2017, 04:49:15 am
It is a shame Empire doesn't use pikes. Makes no sense considering how it copies 1600's Germany otherwise, but oh well, GW has never been known for making sense. (Like dwarves lacking any kind of polearms.)
Post by: Tack on April 05, 2017, 09:28:07 am
Also pikes killed ancient warfare and are awful in strategy games. At least guns have gained some kind of balance. Go play the Rome games and see how the pike line dominates.
So maybe I just dislike polearrms. I think medieval 2 were the only people to do it "well"
Post by: TempAcc on April 05, 2017, 09:31:45 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2017, 10:11:57 am
I believe the reason why the Empire doesn't use polearms beyond halberds is because a pike isn't going to stop a charging monster like a troll or an orc, whereas a halberd or greatsword can lop off an arm and deal larger wounds. Horse Cavalry isn't that major of an opponent to warrent pikes. Though, Estalia and Tilia have pike units in the Dogs of War lists. Cetaph's Southern Factions mod adds some pike units to their lists but I think they act like halberds.
Post by: Burnt Pies on April 05, 2017, 10:16:53 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2017, 10:26:30 am
Post by: ThtblovesDF on April 05, 2017, 10:48:38 am
I find dwarves wielding polearms to be frankly ridiculous.
Not to disagree, but The Hobit had some nice scenes with Pike-dwarfs
https://youtu.be/E64sIPJ9xWE
Post by: umiman on April 05, 2017, 11:24:48 am
So go nuts with putting your gunners behind your lines.
2. If you have trouble with artillery positioning, try splitting your army apart. If you have a lot of artillery, it can work to have your armies in batteries like Napoleonic armies. Have them all cover each other so no matter who is fighting, there will always be artillery fire.
The AI doesn't really know how to handle multiple batteries so it'll usually only ever attack one with maybe one or two light Cav attacking another.
3. Handguns are 3x more powerful than crossbows. Armor piercing damage is true damage and works against everything. They melt enemies. Crossbows only advantage is that it shoots over people's heads.
This isn't that big of a deal as you can arrange your formations to have little gaps in between them for your guns to shoot through. Or you can position then sightly higher up. Again, they don't cause friendly fire so who cares. Additionally, they simplified formation shooting in this game so even if your handguns are in square formation, they still shoot at maximum effectiveness.
Also, if you use a little micro, a flanking barrage will completely rout an enemy.
If you don't believe how brutal handguns are, go into skirmish. Subterranean battle. Put 1 army of just handguns against 2 armies of any greenskins. Armor piercing is ridiculous in this game.
I suspect it might also have something to do with how crossbows also miss a lot when enemies are moving but guns don't.
Post by: Tack on April 05, 2017, 02:26:51 pm
completely unrelated (I can't watch that at work sadly)I find dwarves wielding polearms to be frankly ridiculous.
Not to disagree, but The Hobit had some nice scenes with Pike-dwarfs
https://youtu.be/E64sIPJ9xWE
But I had a random chuckle that I referred to the WH fantasy race as "Dwarves" and you referred to the Tolkien race as "Dwarfs".
Post by: Teneb on April 05, 2017, 04:24:49 pm
Post by: scriver on April 06, 2017, 05:49:32 am
I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels
Somebody earlier posited that pikedpikedwarves was nonsensical, but I feel that tunnel warfare would be a strong reason for pikenererry. Imagine fighting in those cramped spaces and being faced with a literal wall of pikes. Can't manoeuvre around that.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 06, 2017, 08:07:43 am
I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels
Somebody earlier posited that pikedpikedwarves was nonsensical, but I feel that tunnel warfare would be a strong reason for pikenererry. Imagine fighting in those cramped spaces and being faced with a literal wall of pikes. Can't manoeuvre around that.
I agree with this, though I have to think that, if the tunnels are small enough, moving pikes through them would be like moving a couch through a house. Collapsible pikes would inhibit their sturdiness and goblins tend to use bows so a shield would be more use. I do believe dwarfs use wooden stakes though (and dragon's teeth-like walls (http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/azazel_f13/Skull%20Pass%20Dwarves_zpsro1mepzr.jpg~original)), so planting those in front of their lines would have much the same deterring effect.
Post by: Retropunch on April 06, 2017, 10:06:31 am
I think the reasons given are polearms are difficult to use in cramped tunnels
Somebody earlier posited that pikedpikedwarves was nonsensical, but I feel that tunnel warfare would be a strong reason for pikenererry. Imagine fighting in those cramped spaces and being faced with a literal wall of pikes. Can't manoeuvre around that.
I agree with this, though I have to think that, if the tunnels are small enough, moving pikes through them would be like moving a couch through a house. Collapsible pikes would inhibit their sturdiness and goblins tend to use bows so a shield would be more use. I do believe dwarfs use wooden stakes though (and dragon's teeth-like walls (http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg143/azazel_f13/Skull%20Pass%20Dwarves_zpsro1mepzr.jpg~original)), so planting those in front of their lines would have much the same deterring effect.
You could have a pike that comes in two halves without sacrificing much of its sturdiness. As master metalsmiths, they should be able to build a locking mechanism that doesn't sacrifice strength. As a real world example, Naginata had a removable head with a bolt securing it in if I remember correctly.
In terms of defending against bows, I can imagine you might have a line of shield carriers at the front with pikes poking through the ranks (possibly), or more likely give the first line throw away shields which they can discard and pick up their spear when the enemy gets within range.
Post by: Tack on April 06, 2017, 11:03:11 am
I still think it'd result in a whole lot of pikes pointing skywards if you aim for squishy bits or missing legs and getting stomped into the ground if you don't.
I mean more like dwarves carrying short-hafted halberds like you see the empire troops use. Sounds like it's asking for a bunch of front-heavy dwarves.
Or maybe I just like the idea of a line of dwarves, shields held high so the long legs can't batter down on them effectively, way up inside their range, going "hey-up hey-up" whilst they use heavy-handled axes to hew through the bottoms of shields, then greaves, then legs with no pause in the mulching machine.
Post by: Grim Portent on April 06, 2017, 12:22:17 pm
Press up close, a wall of iron shields and armoured bodies thrusting with stout swords into the guts of the enemy, when receiving a charge rest crossbows and guns on the shoulder of the front rank to fire a few volleys, then switch to a spear to stab over the heads of your front rank at the enemy. Hope the enemy has no giants, because there's honestly not a lot dwarves could realistically do against a giant with some metal plates strapped to it's legs and feet.
Though I now wonder if any armies ever tried large scale use of skirmishing horsemen with grenades and firebombs against pike formations. Seems like the sort of thing they'd be good at, at least as long as it wasn't a pike&shot army.
Post by: umiman on April 06, 2017, 12:31:20 pm
But yeah, under real circumstances, no way would hammers and axes be used. Like, there wouldn't even be a historical precedent for them to use those things if they primarily lived underground to begin with.
Seriously, what use would a race of underground midgets who use almost primarily stone have for an axe? They would never have invented it or adopted it for daily use, let alone to equip entire armies.
Post by: TempAcc on April 06, 2017, 12:33:43 pm
Post by: Retropunch on April 06, 2017, 01:09:36 pm
Seriously, what use would a race of underground midgets who use almost primarily stone have for an axe? They would never have invented it or adopted it for daily use, let alone to equip entire armies.
My understanding was always that a dwarves axe was a sort of...stone breaking axe which is similar in function to a pick axe. Whilst obviously the whole point of a pick axe is that you apply a lot of pressure to a very small point, I'm guessing that if they're mythically strong (and have mythically strong metal) an axe could work in a similar fashion.
That being said, axes are quite useful in combat against heavily armoured foes and allows the user to benefit from increased strength. Probably the reach with them also helps make up for size disadvantage as well, so I wouldn't put it past just being a general combat invention.
Post by: Tack on April 06, 2017, 01:34:53 pm
Maybe axes are similar? The people who went down to the lowlands to find wood were regarded as the toughest of primitive dwarves, and therefore axes became symbols of bravery and fortitude, and kept cultural relevance long after losing practical relevance (like dwarves being terrifyingly hidebound isn't already a widespread trait).
Could maybe explain some things.
Post by: umiman on April 06, 2017, 01:48:43 pm
I'm guessing that if they're mythically strong (and have mythically strong metal) an axe could work in a similar fashion.I don't really want to dispute your other statements, but I'd like to point something out.
If they had a mythically strong metal (which they do) with mythically strong bodies (which they do) then their mythically strong pickaxes would be better at breaking rock than their mythically strong axes. So they would still use pickaxes to break rock instead of an axe because it'd be way better at breaking rock than an axe, even if they were powered up compared to our real world versions.
It's kinda like saying if Adamantite existed in our world, we'd throw away our drill bits and use Adamantite forks to dig holes. No, we'd make Adamantite drill bits.
Post by: Retropunch on April 06, 2017, 06:02:41 pm
I'm guessing that if they're mythically strong (and have mythically strong metal) an axe could work in a similar fashion.I don't really want to dispute your other statements, but I'd like to point something out.
If they had a mythically strong metal (which they do) with mythically strong bodies (which they do) then their mythically strong pickaxes would be better at breaking rock than their mythically strong axes. So they would still use pickaxes to break rock instead of an axe because it'd be way better at breaking rock than an axe, even if they were powered up compared to our real world versions.
It's kinda like saying if Adamantite existed in our world, we'd throw away our drill bits and use Adamantite forks to dig holes. No, we'd make Adamantite drill bits.
Of course, but my thought is that it'd be something a long the lines of what Tack has stated (in terms of a cultural thing) combined with them being usable for stone work. Yes, pragmatically it'd be sensible just to use a pick, but due to their immense stubbornness, they may use something not 100% efficient.
I'd imagine that the majority would be using picks (as we see miners in the game) for mining work, but that axes are a sort of cultural thing which they hold to.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 06, 2017, 09:52:16 pm
Post by: scriver on April 07, 2017, 01:14:09 am
Someone made mention of dwarves being predominately mountain-dwellers in their history, hence why the beards, and as they moved into being underground dwellers, the beards became a cultural thing, which explains why they don't look like goblins.
Maybe axes are similar? The people who went down to the lowlands to find wood were regarded as the toughest of primitive dwarves, and therefore axes became symbols of bravery and fortitude, and kept cultural relevance long after losing practical relevance (like dwarves being terrifyingly hidebound isn't already a widespread trait).
Could maybe explain some things.
Mountain dweller means beard?
Post by: Tack on April 07, 2017, 01:31:45 am
Unfortunately I can't explain it as well as the fan who first gave the posit.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 07, 2017, 08:30:45 am
Post by: Teneb on April 07, 2017, 10:41:37 pm
What is this "vanilla" you speak of.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 07, 2017, 11:14:13 pm
My only issue with the map pack is one I knew I would have; some of the maps could do with touchups. Gaps in mountains, terrain or buildings, wonky camera movements where bridges pass over terrain (there's an odd one in the middle of the bridge of Karak Kadrin), Ctrl G grouping units sometimes has issues with rotating the grouping on some maps. I've also seen a map where several bridges seemed to be missing.
One of my favorite maps is a dwarf settlement (Varenka Hills) where both attacker and defender start on either side. You can attack either around the top or bottom of the settlement, but going through the settlement involves narrow roads with lots of overlooking plateaus for quarrellers and artillery and side streets for flanking. The varied terrain heights also limits line of sight so advanced scouting using rangers and gyrocopters becomes really useful.
Post by: Neonivek on April 08, 2017, 01:37:28 am
Err sorry... I mean the actual Total War: Warhammer 2... Total War: Warhammer 3
Post by: Retropunch on April 08, 2017, 10:20:38 am
I think I'll wait for Total War: Warhammer 2
Err sorry... I mean the actual Total War: Warhammer 2... Total War: Warhammer 3
You mean Total War: Warhammer 4, as there's going to be another money grab in another year.
Post by: umiman on April 16, 2017, 12:57:05 pm
I'm not particularly sure what the Steel Faith overhaul does other than it changes basically everything but this campaign has certainly been enjoyable.
I think the Beastmen playstyle just resonates with me. I like rushing and blitz attacks. While I don't really like them from an appearance standpoint, I do like the way they fight. Just swarm the enemy with a gigantic horde of units as fast as possible.
Also unlike Chaos, Morghur starts in an amazing location on the map. Nordland is fucking fun. I don't have to go autoresolve a hundred battles of horse archers and chariots before I can have fun slaughtering humans. I also get the great WAAGH thing like the Greenskins do, which is what I used to raze Altdorf.
I also had no idea Morghur is as big as a Chaos Spawn. Well, I guess technically he is a Chaos Spawn so it makes sense.
---
So I would currently recommend Steel Faith. It seems quite fun. Battles are certainly a little bit longer. Not too long, but maybe... 20% longer.
Post by: Retropunch on April 16, 2017, 01:06:25 pm
So I would currently recommend Steel Faith. It seems quite fun. Battles are certainly a little bit longer. Not too long, but maybe... 20% longer.
Looks really interesting thanks.
One thing that worries me from the description is more hordes - I really dislike having to trudge around after the one or two hordes that spring up in the middle of my territory. They're never big enough to be an actual threat, they're just annoying mostly and I don't really want more. Don't know if you've experienced that?
Post by: umiman on April 16, 2017, 04:55:56 pm
They seem about the same to me.So I would currently recommend Steel Faith. It seems quite fun. Battles are certainly a little bit longer. Not too long, but maybe... 20% longer.
Looks really interesting thanks.
One thing that worries me from the description is more hordes - I really dislike having to trudge around after the one or two hordes that spring up in the middle of my territory. They're never big enough to be an actual threat, they're just annoying mostly and I don't really want more. Don't know if you've experienced that?
Post by: Tack on April 16, 2017, 09:56:43 pm
Post by: Puzzlemaker on April 16, 2017, 11:46:33 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on April 17, 2017, 12:04:00 am
Post by: umiman on April 17, 2017, 01:04:58 am
So should we make a new thread for the second game or just put all that stuff in this one considering that they're basically the same.I think we should just keep it in one since they're basically the same game x3. While CA, SEGA, and GW would want us to think they're three different games, pretty sure we all agree it's one game + 2 expansion packs.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 17, 2017, 02:56:10 am
I do think it's better that they're making Warhammer 2: Total War a sequel rather than releasing it as an expansion. Of course we want a lot of content for a lower price but if focusing on Warhammer 2 as a sequel means they can put more budget towards making a game just as big as the first one than I'm fine with it. As it stands Warhammer 2 seems to be having everything the first one had plus more; 4 new factions with 2 lords each with different starting positions, new campaign map with overarching plot of the Vortex, less regional occupation and possibly new magic mechanics.
A sequel would also make it easier to implement later DLC. You wouldn't need to own both Warhammer 1 and 2 to make use of DLC for Warhammer 2 but if you already own Warhammer 1 your DLC already works with the sequel if applicable, like the Blood DLC.
Stand alone expansion or sequel. There's really not that much of a difference between the two except pricing expectations and I don't think the price could be expected to be lower than Warhammer 1 if the sequel is to have as much content as the first.
Post by: lordcooper on April 17, 2017, 04:54:46 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 17, 2017, 05:43:32 am
So, uh, what's the odds they try and flog us a second blood pack?
The odds are pretty good that if you already own the blood pack it'll work with the sequel. Shogun 2 and Fall of the Samurai had 2 blood packs but if you already owned the one for Shogun 2 you didn't need to buy it for Fall of the Samurai. There's a message mentioning this on the Steam page for the FotS blood DLC. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/2028023/)
There was 2 for Rome 2 and Attila but they were considered much more seperate games than Shogun 2 and FotS.
Like, if you own Beastmen for Warhammer 1, I really doubt you'll have to buy it again for Warhammer 2. I believe Creative Assembly have said in an interview that all DLC for Warhammer 1 will carry over to the sequel.
Edit: If I had to make a guess on how it'll work. I think Creative Assembly will release another blood pack for Warhammer 2, just so all the DLC available for the sequel is visible in the one place on Steam. However, if you already own the blood pack for Warhammer 1 you won't need to buy it again.
Conjecture then; maybe they'll do a re-release of DLC for Warhammer 2. Beastmen with extra units that are added for free for people who already own it but released for Warhammer 2 for new customers buying the sequel.
Post by: Retropunch on April 17, 2017, 06:16:50 am
Conjecture then; maybe they'll do a re-release of DLC for Warhammer 2. Beastmen with extra units that are added for free for people who already own it but released for Warhammer 2 for new customers buying the sequel.
This would actually be a nice touch - the DLC were/are pretty highly priced so making them relevant to the expansion/sequel would make them feel more worthwhile.
I'd agree to keep it all in one thread, there's no point in deviating when its the same base game. It's also not like this thread is so flooded with conversation that it's difficult to keep track of.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on April 17, 2017, 03:35:16 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 17, 2017, 03:48:12 pm
Any ideas for a thread rename to celebrate Total Warhammer 2, then? The punnier, the better. I'd, uh, kinda forgotten this was my thread, but there we go."Total Warhammer: Ratmen Conspiracy Theorists"?
Post by: umiman on April 17, 2017, 05:13:04 pm
Any ideas for a thread rename to celebrate Total Warhammer 2, then? The punnier, the better. I'd, uh, kinda forgotten this was my thread, but there we go.Total War: Warhammer 3! Coming 2018!
Post by: Tack on April 17, 2017, 07:26:45 pm
Post by: Neonivek on April 17, 2017, 08:14:29 pm
Post by: umiman on April 18, 2017, 01:52:55 am
The key is to just let them expand out and conquer the world. Once they've taken over say... Bretonnia, simply waltz into their now completely undefended forest and burn everything to the ground. Because practically all their money and military power comes from their 4 cities, once they lose those, their entire faction simply falls apart.
Also Beastmen are frigging amazing at dealing with elves. They're so fast they can actually catch up to the skirmishing elven shitlords. Harpies are just amazing at dealing with almost all the elven ranged units. Not to mention their numbers are so gigantic and their lords can easily stand up to everything the elves can throw at them. Those mutated wild boars also simply tear through elven infantry like butter while taking barely any damage to themselves.
Not sure if this is just a Steel Faith overhaul thing.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on April 18, 2017, 04:22:13 pm
There is no need to create a new thread anyway. it is the same game, they just slapped a 2 ontop to get more "initial sales".They could've used a better title for a standalone expansion that's for sure.
Post by: Tack on April 18, 2017, 10:40:18 pm
When I invaded the elflands it was with 14 ironbreakers and the rest rangers and engineers.
Have gotten over 100 dmg on great weapon ranger units now, which is pretty insane against most heavy infantry.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 19, 2017, 11:16:51 am
Post by: Tack on April 19, 2017, 07:29:35 pm
ALSO:
Spoiler: HA (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on April 22, 2017, 11:41:44 pm
From the subreddit. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/66xl0z/mfw_the_enemy_general_has_fallen/)
Post by: Tack on April 23, 2017, 06:44:58 am
Post by: Andres on April 24, 2017, 07:37:19 am
Post by: Persus13 on April 24, 2017, 07:48:39 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on April 24, 2017, 01:11:37 pm
So far, I've been told that there's little political stuffs, lots of stabbing, and that it's chunked up.
Which means to me nothing really bad going on. Is it a fun game to play, for someone who hasn't poked around Total War but rather likes Warhammer?
Post by: Retropunch on April 24, 2017, 01:17:54 pm
So, as I was unaware this thread existed(yes I am derp), I asked if Total Warhammer is worth it in the 40k thread. Because I are a derp.
So far, I've been told that there's little political stuffs, lots of stabbing, and that it's chunked up.
Which means to me nothing really bad going on. Is it a fun game to play, for someone who hasn't poked around Total War but rather likes Warhammer?
Definitely. I'd suggest waiting till it goes on sale - I imagine there will be a big one when the
Also, don't worry about not having played TW before; it's a lot more straightforward and easy to get to grips with than the previous ones in the series. That being said, I'd suggest you put it on Easy (or Normal if you're otherwise a strategy vet) as there's a lot of mechanics in TW that aren't always 100% straight forward which can lead you to not realise where you've messed up until 10-15 turns later.
Also make sure you're running it on a SSD!
Post by: ArchAIngel on April 24, 2017, 01:24:39 pm
Just running a standard vanilla hard drive. Will that cause issues?So, as I was unaware this thread existed(yes I am derp), I asked if Total Warhammer is worth it in the 40k thread. Because I are a derp.
So far, I've been told that there's little political stuffs, lots of stabbing, and that it's chunked up.
Which means to me nothing really bad going on. Is it a fun game to play, for someone who hasn't poked around Total War but rather likes Warhammer?
Definitely. I'd suggest waiting till it goes on sale - I imagine there will be a big one when theexpansion packsecond in the series comes out. It's great fun, but the pricing structure as constantly mentioned is terrible. You definitely don't need more than the base game to enjoy it though.
Also, don't worry about not having played TW before; it's a lot more straightforward and easy to get to grips with than the previous ones in the series. That being said, I'd suggest you put it on Easy (or Normal if you're otherwise a strategy vet) as there's a lot of mechanics in TW that aren't always 100% straight forward which can lead you to not realise where you've messed up until 10-15 turns later.
Also make sure you're running it on a SSD!
And yeah, waiting for a sale, 60 bucks is quite a bit. Not too concerned about the DLC policy, seems to have a lot of free stuff, and the costy bits aren't huge changers.
What kind of mechanics are you talking about? Because while I play a fair few games about managing empires(MoO2 and SMAC are still high up on my playtimes), I'm not an expert by any means.
Post by: Tack on April 24, 2017, 01:25:39 pm
Otherwise, most units seem to be similarly balanced to the tabletop Warhammer units, only with generally more numbers.
Can't wait to ramp Unit size to ultra and bring a malfunction of deathwheels.
Post by: Retropunch on April 24, 2017, 02:11:00 pm
Just running a standard vanilla hard drive. Will that cause issues?
And yeah, waiting for a sale, 60 bucks is quite a bit. Not too concerned about the DLC policy, seems to have a lot of free stuff, and the costy bits aren't huge changers.
What kind of mechanics are you talking about? Because while I play a fair few games about managing empires(MoO2 and SMAC are still high up on my playtimes), I'm not an expert by any means.
Well for me it was nigh-unplayable when I had it on my normal HD. It's fine if you're auto-resolving everything and not having to reload much, but if you're new to the series you'll probably be in and out of battles/reloading a lot and so it can be a bit of a pain. Turn end times also take ages in TW compared to most TBS games, and it went from a good minute for the AI turn to about 10 seconds on my SSD.
I may have a slower end HD and a higher end SSD so your results may vary. I'd just be wary and think about investing in one (seriously, they're amazing and not that much for 128gb one).
Definitely don't need to worry about the DLC - there's 100% enough game without it.
In terms of mechanics, you should be fine it's just that it'll take a few tries to get used to how battles and turns work (see point one). Turns are more meaningful (less turn mashing like in something like GalCiv) and battles more easily swayed by what you do - it's part of the fun, but can take a while to get used to.
Post by: umiman on April 24, 2017, 02:19:03 pm
Also makes MP coop campaigns impossible unless we autoresolve everything.
Post by: scriver on April 24, 2017, 03:21:31 pm
Loading into maps can be a bit punishing is all. I assume you've watched play from whatshisface, so you know what to expect.
Is this more or less relative to how Total War games usually do? Because in my experience they always take along time for thw loading.
Post by: Retropunch on April 24, 2017, 03:39:07 pm
Loading into maps can be a bit punishing is all. I assume you've watched play from whatshisface, so you know what to expect.
Is this more or less relative to how Total War games usually do? Because in my experience they always take along time for thw loading.
They always take a while to load in, but there's a difference from the 30 second/minute load times now compared to the 4-10 minutes you get on a HDD. It's less of a problem if you're experienced, but having to reload the same battle 2-3 times gets way, way more painful with a ten minute load after each time.
Post by: PanH on April 24, 2017, 05:46:13 pm
Post by: Thexor on April 24, 2017, 11:19:39 pm
Also, I have to ask...
Can't wait to ramp Unit size to ultra and bring a malfunction of deathwheels.
Is that the proper name for a group of Deathwheels? Like a murder of crows or a gaggle of geese? Because it sounds very appropriate!
Post by: Tack on April 24, 2017, 11:34:23 pm
Makes me wonder how they're going to implement the most devastating and unreliable artillery in the game.
They don't seem to enjoy their random chance, so who knows.
Post by: umiman on April 25, 2017, 01:25:31 am
It is!They better make the wheels and ratling guns manually controllable.
Makes me wonder how they're going to implement the most devastating and unreliable artillery in the game.
They don't seem to enjoy their random chance, so who knows.
Post by: Majestic7 on April 25, 2017, 02:12:43 am
I presume the hamster wheel of death would be a single item unit like monsters. Thus it would fall under this same problem. So far CA seems to be just ignoring it.
Post by: Retropunch on April 25, 2017, 08:03:46 am
The before battle loading isn't that harsh (it's 2-3 minutes for me), but the after battle one is really long for me, at least 10 minutes for me. Wish I had a SSD, but I'm not going to make the investment just for TW
I'd just make the investment for gaming in general if you spend any serious time doing it. It's probably the single biggest step up in performance out of everything I've bought. OS loads up instantly, load times are practically zero on most games and texture pop is reduced significantly for open world games.
I don't know where you are in the world, but a 128gb SSD is really cheap - especially for what you get. Make sure you don't get a lower size than that, as a lot of games (TOTAL WARHAMMER I AM LOOKING AT YOU, YOU BASTARD) need to basically take up double (or at least a third) of the space to do big updates so you need to keep quite a lot of space free.
More than that though, it seems that most new games are being created with SSDs in mind - I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes pretty much required in a year or two for most games.
Post by: Tack on April 25, 2017, 09:43:52 am
The game has major balance problem regarding single monsters anyway. Mainly, in larger unit sizes they are comparatively weaker, since their stats remain the same but the numbers of normal units grow. On the other hand, they are much better when played with smaller unit sizes.Would that mean that when the numbers of smaller units grow, their stats stay the same too?
I presume the hamster wheel of death would be a single item unit like monsters. Thus it would fall under this same problem. So far CA seems to be just ignoring it.
Wouldn't that make each individual dude require less hp taken from the unit in order to get chaff'd?
Haven't looked at any stats, so have no idea.
Post by: Majestic7 on May 06, 2017, 07:43:10 am
Unfortunately, the basic mechanics of old Total Wars make me pretty unable to play it. Mainly one - manual retraining of troops. It is such useless micro. Every time you take casualties you must march back to the settlement that can train each individual unit, then click retrain etc. It just takes time and clicks while adding nothing to the game.
It is a shame, since the mod seems great, but I just can't endure all that clicking anymore.
Post by: Tack on May 06, 2017, 08:23:50 am
Post by: Majestic7 on May 06, 2017, 10:37:11 am
Post by: umiman on May 06, 2017, 10:45:57 am
The terrible UI and especially those old controls just threw me off it.
A shame since I used to adore Medieval 2. Pretty sure I had over a thousand hours on it back in the days before Steam was a thing.
Post by: Tack on May 06, 2017, 03:06:08 pm
Sucks that AAA games are getting so complex and hard to mod nowadays. It basically was half the life of the TW series.
Post by: Majestic7 on May 07, 2017, 03:02:29 am
Post by: Retropunch on May 07, 2017, 08:52:55 am
I'm pretty sure CA/Sega has been making modding harder on purpose, consideirng how the total conversion mods have been pretty much new games on their own. That is setting competition for themselves, as they keep pushing new stuff out on an assembly line. Can't help but compare that to Paradox who are the very opposite.
I feel Paradox are doing the same thing in terms of competition - with Stellaris, a lot of the mods are basically managing to put stuff in that end up in DLC. Granted, they're currently not stopping that, but I don't think it'll be long till they reign back on the modding freedom.
Sega are obviously violently opposed to mods, as with stuff like warhammer, they're trying to just sell race packs which modders could create themselves.
Post by: umiman on May 07, 2017, 10:54:06 am
Post by: Persus13 on May 07, 2017, 11:05:30 am
Paradox also tries to control the modding scene by having a lot of the cool mods be in their forum, but you have to own a legal copy of the game attached to your registered account to access the mods section.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 07, 2017, 12:11:55 pm
At the moment, such efforts are hampered by model modding being limited to what assets (armour, weapons etc) exist in the game currently, though textures can be modified.
Post by: Teneb on May 07, 2017, 12:13:19 pm
Creative Assembly convinced Games Workshop to allow modding for Warhammer: Total War. Games Workshop agreed under the condition that any mods made for Warhammer: Total War didn't incorporate other I.Ps. My assumption on this is that Creative Assembly has to make sure any such mods get no visability on the Steam Workshop or their official forums. If they don't already, such mods will most likely exist by the end of the Warhammer: Total War release cycle.A few LOTR map mods have appeared in the workshop a couple of times. Don't know if they got taken down or not, though.
At the moment, such efforts are hampered by model modding being limited to what assets (armour, weapons etc) exist in the game currently, though textures can be modified.
Post by: Retropunch on May 07, 2017, 01:29:03 pm
I would imagine if they were "violently opposed" to mods, they wouldn't even allow it to begin with.
I think there's a difference between 'player created content' and actual mods. They're happy for people to create stuff within their proscribed limits, but they don't want people creating new factions or overhauling gameplay elements. Warhammer has the sort of fans who are likely to devote themselves to creating big mods, and I could easily imagine (if they let them) they'd create all the major factions pretty quickly, and at a similar level to CA could do.
But, due to the history of CA games, they can't really stop people modding altogether either.
Bit of a weird situation, but hopefully they'll open stuff up more when Expansion 3 is released.
Post by: Tack on May 07, 2017, 02:20:42 pm
Not sure whether that's because SEGA brought the modding hammer down on them after Medieval II though.
Post by: Retropunch on May 07, 2017, 02:51:23 pm
Yeah as far as I remember CA have been big advocates of modding, but also have recently had a 'We can't be bothered to actively make the game more moddable if we're not getting paid' attutude.
Not sure whether that's because SEGA brought the modding hammer down on them after Medieval II though.
I'm sure it was - with modders of their games being so dedicated with the TC/big mods, it'd be hard to push through something that was already modded in without constant comparison. Take Dark Elves - it'd be pretty trivial to change the Wood Elves into Dark Elves if they opened it up enough, and then they'd have a hard time selling them.
Similarly, modders would immediately work on GoT and LOTR mods if they opened it up. I can't imagine they'd get the go ahead to use those IPs, but if they did then they wouldn't want competition.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 07, 2017, 09:47:43 pm
A few of them are "Play as any faction" (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=866743542&searchtext=), mods that add new factions like the "Tomb Kings" (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=877556036), "Chaos Dwarfs" (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=913641271&searchtext=), "Estalia, Tilia and Border Princes" (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=857788336&searchtext=).
These faction mods have new units, spells, heroes and lords. The limiting factor, as I mentioned before, is being unable to import new meshes so the mods have to use existing armour, weapons and unit models. Such as the Chaos faction mod that adds Bloodthirsters but they use the Minotaur model with Malagor's wings attached to their back. (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=704931161&searchtext=Chaos)
A hurdle with making battle maps was people were unable to place walls and gates properly to make siege maps. However, I believe within the last month people have figured out how to do this as the Karaz-A-Karak map makes use of both walls and gates. (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=911937987)
Post by: Tack on May 07, 2017, 11:50:29 pm
If they bring that back in Med 3 I'll be pretty happy.
Post by: umiman on May 08, 2017, 12:27:27 am
Especially when you get simultaneous land and sea battles going on. Goddamn those are fun as well. They were garbage in Rome 2 but they're amazing in Attila.
I think it's something to do with how your defenses in Attila are way more dynamic as you use the terrain and streets to plan your defense rather than just plonk everything on a wall. Not to mention the AI is super aggressive in that one so you get a lot of siege battles too.
Post by: Teneb on May 08, 2017, 05:32:52 am
I actually really enjoyed the "multiple coincentric rings" fortress version in Medieval 2.The problem with that one was that it was pretty easy for your ram to being unable to get to the second gate because of pathfinding, or because it got destroyed or you didn't bring one in the first place. That said, nowadays any unit can go and bash down a gate, so maybe it is finally a good idea.
If they bring that back in Med 3 I'll be pretty happy.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 08, 2017, 06:54:10 am
Post by: Shadowgandor on May 08, 2017, 07:04:59 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 11, 2017, 12:45:17 pm
We get a good look at some terradons, bastiladons, Krok'gar and Mazdamundi as well as Eagle Claw bolt throwers, High Elf archers, spearmens and there's some Swordmasters of Hoeth in there along with a mage.
While I was waiting there was a number of releases of concept art. I didn't think it would be worth posting for each one so I'll link them now:
High Elf Silver Helms. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/8h/muyaxzl3hmyx.png) (Cavalry unit. Probably my favorite High Elf unit)
High Elf Princess (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/clans/8548992/50be667344e85f238c51c80c2431b42c8a37f716.jpg)
High Elf White Lions of Chrace. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/g3/paz73sptzexa.jpg)
Dark Elf Cold One armour. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/ni/121v2pxfwz9l.jpg)
Dark Elf Witch Elves (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/9r/yd1fwpxaie8a.png)
Legendary Lord Malakith the Witch King. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/ap/vx6fqepbvpb5.png)
Slann Lord Mazdamundi. (https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18192596_1447898701951992_4953191133237284796_o.jpg?oh=854e42dc8cff3ff8b31cc22a67aef45c&oe=59B286E5)
Grymloq. (https://scontent.fmad3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/18238610_1459199577488571_1814541189413031410_o.jpg?oh=c969874a6435075b3d0d87b6b8e4ea0c&oe=59C0CCBE) (Mount of Legendary Lord Kroq'gar. The same one that was in the trailer above.)
Bastiladon with Engine of the Gods howdah. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/z1/wiqntes7pr1w.jpg)
There was also this letter posted a few days ago addressed to Finubar the Phoenix King of the High Elves. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/vl/6a3chzt17lrc.jpg)
I might have missed some concept art. Not all of it was posted to the official forums and I don't tend to check Twitter, Facebook or the like that often.
Post by: Tack on May 11, 2017, 12:46:16 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on May 11, 2017, 03:52:11 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 16, 2017, 11:52:13 am
An interesting thing to note is that apparently several of the lizardmen units like the Cold Ones and various feral units will have control. I assume this may be like berserking or how you can lose control of elephants in Rome 2.
Post by: Neonivek on May 16, 2017, 12:02:19 pm
Does it represent them getting bored? Or them finding the enemies endless?
Post by: umiman on May 16, 2017, 01:36:52 pm
The unit roster for the Lizardmen has been put up, having been revealed in a stream and viewable in the linked blog. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/lizardmen-army-roster/)It sounds like they're making Slann magepriests just slightly better mages than what mages are now. That doesn't bode well for all the "supermages" of the new world.
An interesting thing to note is that apparently several of the lizardmen units like the Cold Ones and various feral units will have control. I assume this may be like berserking or how you can lose control of elephants in Rome 2.
Post by: sambojin on May 16, 2017, 02:45:35 pm
Yet they get stopped or outmagicked several times a week in TW:W mechanics, by merely competent generals and wizards.
It wouldn't be much fun otherwise. Sure, special characters can be powerful. But not too powerful, or it's just a race to get the super unit (or starting with the super unit to begin with).
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on May 16, 2017, 10:40:45 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 16, 2017, 10:42:42 pm
Which is fair enough from a gameplay perspective. In theory, Archon is meant to be an unstoppable killing machine, and the Supreme Patriarch the greatest human magician that is alive. In lore at least.
Yet they get stopped or outmagicked several times a week in TW:W mechanics, by merely competent generals and wizards.
It wouldn't be much fun otherwise. Sure, special characters can be powerful. But not too powerful, or it's just a race to get the super unit (or starting with the super unit to begin with).
I wish that this actually was true and was explained that it is because they aren't specialized in direct confrontational battles :P
But as with most settings magic exists only to shoot pew pews out of your fingers and make people die.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 17, 2017, 12:42:11 am
Creative Assembly have mentioned the geomantic web in relation to the Lizardmen. Perhaps the greater powers of the Slann will be represented through that somehow? I thought they could perhaps influence the winds of magic around the world once per turn (increase it in one location, reduce it in another). From what I understand, the Slann in the tabletop had access to all the winds of magic as well as High Magic (What the High Elves also use). They may have also had a reduced chance to miscast and a few more power dice but not much more to differentiate them from other casters.
The Slann also had a high caster level (I think 4) which meant they could take 4 spells.
Since mages can learn all spells through levelling up this mechanic doesn't have much of a place in Warhammer: Total War. I'm fine with that because it allows heroes to have more roleplaying attached to them as they progress through a campaign.
Post by: Thexor on May 17, 2017, 01:01:00 am
And yeah, separation of lore and gameplay is a GW signature. In Fantasy, the Slann have literally rearranged the continents because of an interpretation of the Great Plan, causing a massive disaster for the Dwarfs. Powerful mages in the Fantasy lore can literally wipe armies with a single gesture. And then you get into a TT battle, and magic is suddenly fair and balanced at a small scale. Or look at 40K, where Space Marines are portrayed in lore as one-man armies, a single squad of them able to change the course of a planet-scale war... and then you jump into a game, and a handful of Ork Boyz will gun your marine down in a hail of dakka. Single individuals having massive influence on the course of events makes sense in a story, but it'd be ridiculously imbalanced in an actual game, so there's more than a little power scaling applied in practice.
Post by: Neonivek on May 17, 2017, 01:47:37 am
Quote
nd then you jump into a game, and a handful of Ork Boyz will gun your marine down in a hail of dakka.
In their defense you cannot use the bulk of the armies for the majority of the factions, They don't let you use their lowest tiers most of the time.
THAT and the game has a huge tendency to write in both myth and actuality interchangeably... As well as not splitting between "Heroic example" and "typical example" :P
Or rather reading 40k is absolutely terrible because you can't trust anything is true at anytime.
---
Mind you what I said doesn't apply to the LATEST version where they finally just went "Fudge it!" and completely threw the power curve out the window... then stomped the power curve... then lit it on fire... then stomped it again... then threw it into a blender. So now the game is entirely arbitrary to the lore.
Quote
it'd be ridiculously imbalanced in an actual game, so there's more than a little power scaling applied in practice.
It reminds me of the Halo lore.
If you actually read the lore then Masterchief is completely broken of a character and it makes a LOT of his feats seem really odd in retrospect (For example Plasma grenades? Can't hurt Master Chief to my knowledge) as well even the terrible weapons in the game end up having some sort of ridiculous super science behind it. (Yeah you think flipping a tank was odd? Yeah MC can actually do that)
And just like them both the games came first. I have NO idea why as a creator you would want to completely contradict your story and gameplay on purpose.
Post by: umiman on May 17, 2017, 03:07:18 am
Total War Warhammer and Persona 5.
TWW's sales were just that good. Bodes well.
I don't think I would like to live in a world where Total War had to shut down, which they nearly had to after Rome 2.
I just hope all this dlc fuckery doesn't ruin the future sales.
Post by: Tack on May 17, 2017, 05:32:56 am
Warhammer Total War for me then was kind of faith restored in CA - but Sega and their rushed development, DLC policy and crushing budget will never really make me happy.
Post by: Teneb on May 17, 2017, 05:45:38 am
I didn't buy Attilla because it just seemed like a repackaged Rome 2, but people are saying that it was apparently great.It very much isn't. It might also be the hardest Total War to date.
Post by: Retropunch on May 17, 2017, 07:12:56 am
I didn't buy Attilla because it just seemed like a repackaged Rome 2, but people are saying that it was apparently great.
Warhammer Total War for me then was kind of faith restored in CA - but Sega and their rushed development, DLC policy and crushing budget will never really make me happy.
Attilla for me was one of the more fun Total War historical games. It felt to 'glue together' a bit better than the other games in the series (I know that sounds a bit abstract) and I played it a lot.
But yeah, Sega is really starting to ruin a whole load of stuff, and it only seems to be getting worse (Dawn of War for instance)
Post by: Neonivek on May 17, 2017, 03:24:10 pm
And I don't mean "everything sold as DLC was intended for the original game"
I mean... release a game that clearly completed development and wasn't released early because they could get away with it.
Post by: Tack on May 17, 2017, 03:44:32 pm
Post by: Neonivek on May 17, 2017, 04:43:58 pm
Never gonna happen, Neo. They've explicitly said if there was no DLC, it wouldn't be a 'more complete' game, there'd just be less game.
I don't even mean "No DLC" I just mean "Complete game"
For example The Sims 2 had a metric megaton of DLC... but it was released complete and relatively glitch free (The only feature they tried finishing before release was rain)
As opposed to Rome 2 Total War... Which was an incomplete garbage monster on release.
Give me DLC, Drown the game in DLC, make the DLC rain from the heaven. Yet finish the game first.
Post by: Hanzoku on May 18, 2017, 04:47:53 am
Post by: Tack on May 18, 2017, 05:12:26 am
Far as I can tell, Attilla and WTW were both released relatively bug-free.
Post by: Antioch on May 18, 2017, 06:26:02 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 18, 2017, 10:02:12 am
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI2d3r5fhA8)
Also, a video of the stream Lizardmen list has been put up. I haven't watched it myself but there might be a few more details mentioned beyond the list in it. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVyRy3OUtKg)
Post by: Majestic7 on May 19, 2017, 12:28:12 am
Attila came back towards Medieval 1 in having some political complexity regarding governers and whatnot. Hopefully there will be a new historical Total War with such content as well. Although Warhammer has full battles, it suffers from lack of content otherwise. Once you have your perfect army composition down, there is little to do since the campaign part is quite bland.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on May 19, 2017, 01:59:00 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 26, 2017, 03:01:06 am
Post by: Antioch on May 27, 2017, 04:17:17 pm
Though I heard Attila was a lot better?
Post by: umiman on May 27, 2017, 04:24:18 pm
I found rome 2 to be thoroughly disappointing.Yes, Attila is really, really good. Improves on Rome 2 in every single way and makes the game ludicriously hard. Easily the hardest Total War out there. Even the tutorial is hard.
Though I heard Attila was a lot better?
Post by: Antioch on May 27, 2017, 04:26:06 pm
I found rome 2 to be thoroughly disappointing.Yes, Attila is really, really good. Improves on Rome 2 in every single way and makes the game ludicriously hard. Easily the hardest Total War out there. Even the tutorial is hard.
Though I heard Attila was a lot better?
Ah, good since the only total war that was even remotely challenging was shogun 2.
Post by: Majestic7 on May 28, 2017, 04:28:41 am
Post by: Tack on May 28, 2017, 07:14:47 am
Realm Divide in Shogun 2 is bullshit, though. Especially with even your vassals turning against you.To be fair, the actual history involved a vassal supplanting their lord house.
Post by: Antioch on May 28, 2017, 03:55:50 pm
Realm Divide in Shogun 2 is bullshit, though. Especially with even your vassals turning against you. But then, diplomacy has always been diarhea in Total War. It is a shame, since the grand campaigns would be much better with passable diplomacy AI.
While it is most certainly bullshit, it does prevent an endgame where you just steamroll everything.
Though vassals turning on you was complete bullshit, since that just made making vassals useless.
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2017, 03:57:47 pm
And you can totally abuse the realm divide, as clans that spawn/respawn after the realm divide triggers won't hate you.Realm Divide in Shogun 2 is bullshit, though. Especially with even your vassals turning against you. But then, diplomacy has always been diarhea in Total War. It is a shame, since the grand campaigns would be much better with passable diplomacy AI.
While it is most certainly bullshit, it does prevent an endgame where you just steamroll everything.
Though vassals turning on you was complete bullshit, since that just made making vassals useless.
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2017, 06:40:10 pm
I wouldn't really call that "abuse". More like... convenient loophole.And you can totally abuse the realm divide, as clans that spawn/respawn after the realm divide triggers won't hate you.Realm Divide in Shogun 2 is bullshit, though. Especially with even your vassals turning against you. But then, diplomacy has always been diarhea in Total War. It is a shame, since the grand campaigns would be much better with passable diplomacy AI.
While it is most certainly bullshit, it does prevent an endgame where you just steamroll everything.
Though vassals turning on you was complete bullshit, since that just made making vassals useless.
Abusing is exploiting the AI and move order bugs to win a speedrun legendary difficulty campaign in 8 turns.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 01, 2017, 10:31:17 pm
Spoiler: Summery of features (click to show/hide)
There was some images in the thread of the article. It had a number of small pictures from the battle the reporter played The map being as is described above, the one we saw in the Lizardmen in engine trailer (A bridge leading to a large temple).
Edit: I do have copies of the images I took before they were removed. There's nothing really new to them and they'll probably be up again in a few days once magazine subscription exclusivity is over.
Edit 2: There was one other thing. A video covering the Saurus Oldbloods riding Carnosaurs was released a few days ago. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNF1tS1gZd8)
Post by: Tack on June 01, 2017, 11:02:13 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on June 02, 2017, 12:48:13 am
Post by: Tack on June 02, 2017, 01:16:46 am
Would be awesome.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 02, 2017, 03:35:48 am
Post by: timferius on June 02, 2017, 11:09:45 am
It used to be a thing in 6th Edition that you could only have as many units of slaves as you had clanrats. I think it could work that for every unit of clanrats you field, you get a free unit of slaves that auto-replenishes to full between battles. The trade off could be, like in 7th edition, once the slaves break they scatter, dealing some damage to units around them, and don't reform.Yes, a mass swarm of exploding slaves was always great. I always head-cannoned it that they had skyre-approved explosive collars.
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2017, 11:22:21 am
An article on Warhammer 2: Total War from PC Gamer UK has been shared online and it covers a number of points on what's coming in the new game. Taken from a thread on the official forums here; (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/195124/pc-gamer-uk-june-2017/p1)It's also, more or less the same, in PCGamer's site. (http://www.pcgamer.com/total-war-warhammer-2-brings-high-fantasy-to-a-redesigned-campaign/)Spoiler: Summery of features (click to show/hide)
There was some images in the thread of the article. It had a number of small pictures from the battle the reporter played The map being as is described above, the one we saw in the Lizardmen in engine trailer (A bridge leading to a large temple).
Edit: I do have copies of the images I took before they were removed. There's nothing really new to them and they'll probably be up again in a few days once magazine subscription exclusivity is over.
Edit 2: There was one other thing. A video covering the Saurus Oldbloods riding Carnosaurs was released a few days ago. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNF1tS1gZd8)
Post by: Mech#4 on June 02, 2017, 11:28:14 am
More information has been released about the sequel. Various articles are now able to be read on journalist websites, listed in the thread linked.
There's aslo various screenshots of gameplay that accompany these articles. I've listed several below.
Image 1 (http://images.eurogamer.net/2017/articles/1/9/0/4/2/1/2/everything-weve-learnt-about-total-war-warhammer-2-149640784716.png)
Image 2 (http://images.eurogamer.net/2017/articles/1/9/0/4/2/1/2/everything-weve-learnt-about-total-war-warhammer-2-149640801128.png)
Image 3 (https://www.gamereactor.eu/media/90/totalwar_2109073b.png)
Image 4 (https://www.gamereactor.eu/media/90/totalwar_2109083b.png)
Image 5 (https://www.gamereactor.eu/media/91/totalwar_2109123b.png)
Skimming through one of the articles a few things were mentioned;
Legendary Lords for a faction now have different starting locations. Tyrion is in Ulthuan, Teclis elsewhere (probably Lustria). This also means they are two seperate factions in gameplay so you'll have to confederate to get both lords.
The Lizardmen power laylines they see across the map can link settlements together, conveying bonuses, I believe, to the cities as well as through the decleration/edict system.
High Elves have a faction ability called "Influence" that they can gain through events and spend to change diplomatic relations between other factions.
Post by: Teneb on June 02, 2017, 03:12:10 pm
Tyrion is in Ulthuan, Teclis elsewhere (probably Lustria)The PCGamer link I posted confirms he starts in Lustria.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 02, 2017, 11:05:31 pm
IndiePride - Interview Part 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sgjUxVPtY4)
IndiePride - Interview Part 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t48El9jBvr0&t)
A few other details are mentioned;
A Free-for-All mode for multiplayer (so, 3 armies all against each other rather tahn in 2 teams).
Dragons will have breath attacks.
Fortress Gate battles will have abilities the High Elves can use tied to them. I think the two mentioned were calling in giant eagles and an ability called the "Hammer of Vaul" that destroys walls.
Also, apparently siege equipment won't be used in Fortress Gate battles.
There was a mention that magic for the likes of Mazdamundi and Teclis would be different from other mage lords. They probably won't have all the lores available to them like in the tabletop but something else to represent their magic power.
Raiding and pillaging locations in Lustria for items and gold. There was also a mention of sea monsters.
Post by: umiman on June 02, 2017, 11:55:22 pm
Raiding and pillaging locations in Lustria for items and gold. There was also a mention of sea monsters.I suspect sea monsters will probably just be events or attrition. Doubt you'd actually be able to fight them considering they won't be doing naval battles at all.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 02, 2017, 11:59:03 pm
Raiding and pillaging locations in Lustria for items and gold. There was also a mention of sea monsters.I suspect sea monsters will probably just be events or attrition. Doubt you'd actually be able to fight them considering they won't be doing naval battles at all.
Well, naval battles will be auto-resolve so there could be random sea monsters spawning and roaming about, ready to ambush fleets nearby.
Post by: Teneb on June 03, 2017, 11:23:13 am
Post by: umiman on June 04, 2017, 05:23:39 am
I'll highlight a few:
Quote
Treasure hunting: ruins can now be treasure hunted in addition to settled.
Treasure hunting will bring up a choose-your-own-adventure style menu, upon which you can gain benefits (like treasure or recruits) or take a hit (such as army damage or Chaos corruption). Armies embarked at sea will be able to treasure hunt at sunken ships.
Treasure hunting CYOA are pre-generated, so eventually they will repeat for the player (and you'll know the end result), but there's planned to be a large amount of them.
Settlement slot changes: Major settlements now all have 8 slots, minor settlements now all have 6 slots.
This will apply to TW:W1 factions/buildings on the combined map. Old factions will also receive new buildings, including new unique buildings.
TW:W1 factions will gain TW:W2 new features on the combined map
Bretonnian trait system will be expanded to old factions, i.e. you will get notifications telling you why this or that Lord has a trait.
Old factions will be able to settle anywhere.
Skill trees have been reworked.
In TW:W1, the first skill point grants the spell, the second reduces cooldown. In TW:W2, the first point grants the spell, the second grants the overcast, and the third grants a Winds of Magic cost reduction.
Magic is being rebalanced across the board, though no specifics have been released.
Mazdamundi will have unique mechanics though what those mechanics are is unclear at this point.
Teclis will have access to all lores including High Magic.
Confirmed High Magic Spell: Fiery Convocation, like Winds of Death but with a fiery phoenix animation instead.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2017, 06:37:27 am
Addition: As it mentions in the Reddit post; the increased build slots should also help the A.I. with army recruitment, having more slots to build tie in buildings to recruit later units.
I look forward to the roaming armies. Having groups of trolls spawning in Troll Country or squigs attacking in the mountains will make neat little diversions, as long as the spawned armies aren't too big. I do kind of hope they're small enough to be warded off by the town guard, but with the increased build slots this may be less of a concern for me.
I do like the treasure hunting system. It'll give more reason to send lords out, searching for stuff. I wonder whether they'll appear for all factions or only for one. It mentions recruits as a reward and I wonder whether that means possible cross race units?
The magic system change is also very nice. I never put two points into a spell, so putting a point in to get overcast will also give more incentive to use it. Not every spell as it is gets overcast though so will some spells have three points and others two?
Addition: There's a note in the thread that Teclis gains 8 attributes of magic rather than access to all lores of magic.
I didn't really mind the faction settling restrictions. I mean, it had positives and negatives. It meant fighting some enemies wasn't really beneficial but it also meant there was little reason to mess with, say, the south as the Empire.
Addition: Ah, it mentions races will have preferred climates with build, growth and public order penalties if you settle in a different climate.
Post by: Teneb on June 04, 2017, 09:36:54 am
Highlights for those who aren't feeling like reading it (note that I don't mention anything I noticed in this thread already):
-TW:W is the most popular game of the series to date
-There are now more variations of battles, like choke points. Further, having a regular battle near a quest battle location places you in that map.
-New siege maps
-High elves have court intrigue. Through it they can make people like them, or even make two factions go to war with each other.
-Four-player multiplayer campaigns
-Only high elves in Ulthuan at game start
-Ten factions in the Southlands.
Post by: umiman on June 04, 2017, 02:29:52 pm
-Four-player multiplayer campaignsThat's a typo. He means the new free for all 4 player battle mode.
MP campaigns are confirmed to be two players only.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 05, 2017, 12:57:06 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 05, 2017, 07:30:59 am
It would be annoying to send an army all the way over to Lustria, fight one battle and have to return over the sea again (possibly taking about 10 turns) because of casualties and maybe attrition from the jungle. Being able to establish a settlement, even a tentatively held one, will make venturing into a new continent much more appealing as it's a place to retreat and recuperate.
With the public order penalties it might also prevent most factions from conquering large swaths of the map. If the public order gets too low we'll see rebel armies appearing to re-establish defeated factions. Though, that depends on whether the A.I. order bonuses cover the climate penalties or not. Certainly in the higher difficulties it would but on normal difficulty I don't know.
Dwarfs might conquer parts of the Empire, but due to order penalties the Empire faction re-emerges and gains a foothold again. I think it's better than the large amounts of devastation since, while it'll still occur with Chaos, the A.I. can be rather slow recolonising lost provinces.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 05, 2017, 08:04:43 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 05, 2017, 08:16:19 am
Also, thinking on the climate mechanic, I would assume some factions won't be affected by it. Greenskins probably won't be and Vampire Counts also, Greenskins being pretty much everywhere and Vampire Counts relying on corruption.
Post by: Teneb on June 05, 2017, 07:19:24 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 06, 2017, 11:19:34 am
Spoiler: High Elf Roster (click to show/hide)
I don't know much of the High Elf army lists so I won't catch everything but the list seems pretty complete. A few units that are missing from a quick comparison to an army list are the Shadow Warriors, Lothern Skycutter, Sisters of Avalorn, White Lion Chariots and the Anointed of Asuryan. I like that they've got the phoenixes as well as the various dragon types.
I think the Shadow Warriors are much like the Lothern Seaguard, but sneakier. It's not too suprising to me the Lothern Skycutter isn't in as a flying artillary chariot sounds quite complicated to implement well. The Sisters of Avalorn are apparently a very shooty ranged unit. There's also the Anointed of Asuryan, a hero Phoenix Guard general, which is also the only hero who can take a Phoenix as a mount in the tabletop.
From the information on the Lizardmen quest battle that was displayed a little while ago, I believe there's an error in the list as that quest battle had High Elf Mages on the Ithilmar Chariots.
Edits while reading comments on official forums: Oooh, apparently Phoenixes have a 50% chance to resurrect when killed. This in itself is really cool but that also speaks well for the Hellpit Abomination for the Skaven.
Also, it seems like the High Elf units get a buff when they're above 50% health to represent Martial Prowess special rule, giving +50% charge resistance and +12 melee defense.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 06, 2017, 02:58:01 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 06, 2017, 03:03:53 pm
I bet they are saving units and LLs to sell as DLC on purpose.Sort of. You can see by the HElf list that it's a pretty solid selection aimed towards being more accessible, without a lot of micro. There's also matters of budget and, of course, SEGA demanding a dlc plan.
As long as it isn't day-1 dlc, I'm ok with it.
Post by: Persus13 on June 06, 2017, 03:08:14 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 06, 2017, 05:23:28 pm
Irregardless, so long as I can use a Slaan and blow out half an enemy army, I'm chill. God toads.
Post by: Teneb on June 06, 2017, 06:48:54 pm
Weren't the actual units FreeLC, and the Legendary Lords were the bitz that cost money?There were FLC units and DLC units. Blood Knights were free. Flagellants were not.
Irregardless, so long as I can use a Slaan and blow out half an enemy army, I'm chill. God toads.
Post by: Persus13 on June 06, 2017, 09:00:20 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 06, 2017, 09:57:12 pm
I have been very happy with the unit pack DLCs that Creative Assembly has made so far. "The Grim and the Grave" and "The King and the Warlord" both have a nice number of additional units, 2 lords each as well as new maps, item quests and regiments of renown for ~$10 AUD/$8 USD.
So far I've seen some speculation that we might see a lord pack based around Alarielle the Radiant and a Dark Elf lord, Hellebron maybe?
Anything else about the list? Hm, it seems a bit odd to split a unit like the Ellyrian Reavers into melee and ranged units when their purpose was to be more multi-rolled like the Lothern Seaguard.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 07, 2017, 12:33:43 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 07, 2017, 09:16:01 am
Spoiler: Copy of post text (click to show/hide)
Since the race pack DLC is for Warhammer 1: Total War, I'm guessing it's going to be the Tomb Kings as they share the southern border of the campaign map with the addition that'll be coming in Warhammer 2 of the Southlands, though people are also guessing that it might be an expansion of the southern kingdoms (Boarder Princes, Tilia, Estalia).
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2017, 11:14:15 am
Since the race pack DLC is for Warhammer 1: Total War, I'm guessing it's going to be the Tomb Kings as they share the southern border of the campaign map with the addition that'll be coming in Warhammer 2 of the Southlands, though people are also guessing that it might be an expansion of the southern kingdoms (Boarder Princes, Tilia, Estalia).
The dev blog (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-07-06-17/) states:
Quote
Think along the lines of the Blood Knight Free-LC, rather than lords or anything. Not saying it’s a unit specifically, but that sort of scale addition to the game.
-----
That being said, how many games are CA working on. Seems like a really high amount.
According to the blog post they're making:
Arena
FreeLC for Warhammer 1
DLC for Warhammer 1
Warhammer 2
New DLC for Attila / Rome 2
Unknown Historical Title That's Probably China
Another "Flashpoint" game like Fall of the Samurai or Napoleon
That's a lot for a single studio. And that's just the Total War team. I know CA is also making some other non-Total War games too.
Post by: Persus13 on June 07, 2017, 11:36:27 am
The dev blog (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-07-06-17/) states:No that quote is referring to the "Old Friend" FLC, which is different than the new Race Pack.QuoteThink along the lines of the Blood Knight Free-LC, rather than lords or anything. Not saying it’s a unit specifically, but that sort of scale addition to the game.
I don't think adding in an entire new faction of entirely new models ala Bretonnia is along the lines of the Blood Knight Free-LC.
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2017, 11:38:54 am
Whups. I fucked up then. Guess this is what happens with 3 hours of sleep. My bad.The dev blog (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-07-06-17/) states:No that quote is referring to the "Old Friend" FLC, which is different than the new Race Pack.QuoteThink along the lines of the Blood Knight Free-LC, rather than lords or anything. Not saying it’s a unit specifically, but that sort of scale addition to the game.
I don't think adding in an entire new faction of entirely new models ala Bretonnia is along the lines of the Blood Knight Free-LC.
Post by: Retropunch on June 07, 2017, 11:51:24 am
I don't really feel the border princes need anything doing with them, they're really not an interesting faction by any metric, they're just sort of (from a lay persons stand point) ...empire but a bit different.
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2017, 12:43:04 pm
I'd quite like the see the Tomb Kings in; they don't really seem different enough to justify being a main race, and I doubt many people would be able to appreciate the difference between Vampire Counts undead and Tomb kings undead- it's basically just undead. Yet they're still different and interesting enough that they'd work as DLC.If the Empire is fantasy Holy Roman Empire-Britannia, then the Border Princes are basically Portugal + Spain + Italia + Dwarfs + Elves + Pirates + Ogres + Basically everything. They primarily use mercenaries and unlike what is portrayed in game, are represented by many many many many many many many independent realms (technically more like independent villages) all thrown together under one banner.
I don't really feel the border princes need anything doing with them, they're really not an interesting faction by any metric, they're just sort of (from a lay persons stand point) ...empire but a bit different.
If anything they're more like Crusader Kings 2 with Shattered World and random cultures on or something. And more mercenaries.
Post by: Retropunch on June 07, 2017, 03:21:42 pm
If the Empire is fantasy Holy Roman Empire-Britannia, then the Border Princes are basically Portugal + Spain + Italia + Dwarfs + Elves + Pirates + Ogres + Basically everything. They primarily use mercenaries and unlike what is portrayed in game, are represented by many many many many many many many independent realms (technically more like independent villages) all thrown together under one banner.
If anything they're more like Crusader Kings 2 with Shattered World and random cultures on or something. And more mercenaries.
That's cool, and I can imagine they're quite an interesting race for the tabletop, however in Total Warhammer they're just 'more humans', which makes it a bit difficult to get excited about as a DLC. I'm sure there's a lot of difference for hardcore fans, but for the rest of us it's difficult to differentiate, even if they're a 'merc faction'
Post by: Grim Portent on June 07, 2017, 04:35:13 pm
Most of what we know about them is just from setting material.
I would like to see them made distinct anyway though, and Kislev as well. Kislev is ruled by an ice witch who once froze an entire bay to trap Norscan ships in the ice so her soldiers could slaughter the raiders in their boats, and is the main bulwark against Chaos invasions. Making them more fleshed out would be a good thing if only because it makes them more interesting for Chaos, the Empire and the Vampires to fight.
The southern realms are the same in that they would be better off distinct because a bunch of playable races are around them, Bretonnia, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Beastmen all live in areas that can bring them into conflict or alliance with the Border Princes, Tilea and Estalia. Fleshing them out, even just with unique skins and a magic lore or two, would go a long way to making them interesting obstacles in the early/mid game.
Tilea would actually be fairly easy to do honestly, a few reskinned infantry units and a bunch of stuff taken from other factions. Ogres, Dwarves, outcast knights from the Empire and Bretonnia, Orcs and Norscans are all found in Tilea's mercenary armies, along with lots of more conventional mercenaries.
Post by: A Thing on June 07, 2017, 04:45:09 pm
If the Empire is fantasy Holy Roman Empire-Britannia, then the Border Princes are basically Portugal + Spain + Italia + Dwarfs + Elves + Pirates + Ogres + Basically everything. They primarily use mercenaries and unlike what is portrayed in game, are represented by many many many many many many many independent realms (technically more like independent villages) all thrown together under one banner.
If anything they're more like Crusader Kings 2 with Shattered World and random cultures on or something. And more mercenaries.
That's cool, and I can imagine they're quite an interesting race for the tabletop, however in Total Warhammer they're just 'more humans', which makes it a bit difficult to get excited about as a DLC. I'm sure there's a lot of difference for hardcore fans, but for the rest of us it's difficult to differentiate, even if they're a 'merc faction'
The problem with Border Princes being DLC is that they work in something like Call of Warhammer where every city in a region having a couple unique units is completely reasonable, but not so much in a game like Total Warhammer where unit rosters are much smaller (for humans, anyway.) I can't imagine Creative Assembly making a DLC faction with more units then most of the vanilla and DLC factions. Wouldn't be surprised if they get added in a mod though, seems like the perfect faction for someone to mod in.
^I got distracted and Grim Portent posted before me and, yeah, Kislev definitely needs work. I haven't played Total Warhammer yet (might as well wait for the trilogy thingy to be finished) but from what I've seen Kislev makes for an extremely dull battleground for Empire late-game, and for Chaos early-game. Should definitely get something even if it doesn't become playable.
Post by: Teneb on June 07, 2017, 05:03:53 pm
They actually had little to represent them on the tabletop, a few mercenary units at one point or another I think, but never an actual army of their own.Of the minor human factions, Kislev, Araby and Tilea actually had army lists. Kislev had a sort of mini-armybook for WHF and also was a full army together with Araby in Warmaster. Tilea, meanwhile, had a full roster available for them in Dogs of War. Cathay has a bunch of lore but is too far away to work. BP is pretty much everything human mixed together with some ogres, dwarfs, vampires (especially strigoi) and the odd elf, while Estalia has no lore besides "fantasy Spain".
Most of what we know about them is just from setting material.
I would like to see them made distinct anyway though, and Kislev as well. Kislev is ruled by an ice witch who once froze an entire bay to trap Norscan ships in the ice so her soldiers could slaughter the raiders in their boats, and is the main bulwark against Chaos invasions. Making them more fleshed out would be a good thing if only because it makes them more interesting for Chaos, the Empire and the Vampires to fight.
The southern realms are the same in that they would be better off distinct because a bunch of playable races are around them, Bretonnia, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and Beastmen all live in areas that can bring them into conflict or alliance with the Border Princes, Tilea and Estalia. Fleshing them out, even just with unique skins and a magic lore or two, would go a long way to making them interesting obstacles in the early/mid game.
Tilea would actually be fairly easy to do honestly, a few reskinned infantry units and a bunch of stuff taken from other factions. Ogres, Dwarves, outcast knights from the Empire and Bretonnia, Orcs and Norscans are all found in Tilea's mercenary armies, along with lots of more conventional mercenaries.
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2017, 05:05:06 pm
Wouldn't be surprised if they get added in a mod though, seems like the perfect faction for someone to mod in.....
....
I take it you're not familiar with the Warhammer modding scene so here (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708051537&searchtext=border+princes)
Incidentally the Tomb Kings have also been kinda hodgepodged in. Somewhat.
Post by: Teneb on June 07, 2017, 05:07:12 pm
Yeah, there's faction mods for the Border Princes (it even adds full LLs!), Kislev, Norsca and Mousillon. Shit, there's even a pair of mods that add Tomb Kings and Chaos Dwarfs (custom battle only, they get recruited as units in the campaign by the VCs and WoC respectively).Wouldn't be surprised if they get added in a mod though, seems like the perfect faction for someone to mod in.....
....
I take it you're not familiar with the Warhammer modding scene so here (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708051537&searchtext=border+princes)
Post by: A Thing on June 07, 2017, 06:13:15 pm
Yeah, there's faction mods for the Border Princes (it even adds full LLs!), Kislev, Norsca and Mousillon. Shit, there's even a pair of mods that add Tomb Kings and Chaos Dwarfs (custom battle only, they get recruited as units in the campaign by the VCs and WoC respectively).Wouldn't be surprised if they get added in a mod though, seems like the perfect faction for someone to mod in.....
....
I take it you're not familiar with the Warhammer modding scene so here (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=708051537&searchtext=border+princes)
...I probably should have looked beforehand. Those Mousillon and Tomb Kings ones hit all my undead loving buttons.
I mean, just look at this friggin' thing (https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/172665724261958179/1B0AD22D746E456C7F9B20FC2F46B6A9C6218D47/). It's beautiful.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 07, 2017, 11:00:52 pm
The mod also has unique lords for all three factions though, due to a bug in the experience system, only Borgio the Besieger for Tilia is available right now but his models is really well done.
(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/790791271672801723/410614AD6C21A7CF20691F43F47C7A5AA666FD74/)
The Tomb King mod... eh. A lot of work has been put into it but using a giant gryphon as a Necrosphynx looks awkward. Like the gryphon/bears in the Kislev mod.
The Mousillon mod is nicely done. It's just a visual change on top of the Vampire Counts army to a more Bretonnian theme which I appreciate. I try to get mods that don't change the base gameplay too much or don't add really powerful new units. The Southern Realms mod has new units but they're still weaker than the Empire since they lack monsters and higher artillary.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 08, 2017, 01:13:43 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 12, 2017, 11:32:52 am
The release date is set for 28th of September.
Early Adopters (Meaning the offer continues for a week after game release) will get a free race pack. This race-pack is the one earlier mentioned and applies for Warhammer 1: Total War. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/195411/warhammer-ii-release-date-and-serpent-god-edition-details/p1)
Two new pictures have also been added to the Steam store page. Picture 1 (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/594570/ss_cb687dc4b3c0dbcbf46a2465f0c211eca47262df.jpg?t=1497276111), picture 2. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/594570/ss_59100ffa00f7cb1d5f230e9f8a7b1d1b6549d9a4.jpg?t=1497276111)
Edit: An F.A.Q has also been posted on the Serpent God Collector's Edition.
Spoiler: F.A.Q section about Early Adopter Race Pack (click to show/hide)
This is very interesting. A rework of an existing faction puts up a few possibilities. I'm leaning towards Beastmen as it mentions a few new monsters (Ghorgon, Jabberslyth) and 2 new legendary lords (Maybe Taurox the Brass Bull and Gorthor the Beastlord) with their own quests, skill trees and starting positions.
Post by: umiman on June 12, 2017, 12:01:44 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 12, 2017, 12:15:03 pm
People are leaning towards Norsca with lords like Wulfrik the Wanderer. Not sure what monsters they could have also though, maybe War Mammoth (though that was a Forge World model)? Thinking on it, any monsters they add to Norsca could later be added to the Warriors of Chaos army list.
Norsca would make sense since the Dark Elves are right up against the Chaos Wastes in Naggaroth and it would mix things up abit.
Edit: Oh some things I forgot; A poster of Teclis was released (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/2h/5x8rn2hguoa9.jpg) as well as a showcase of the Eagle Claw Bolt Thrower for the High Elves. (https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/873525174729035778)
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 12, 2017, 12:28:45 pm
This'll go great in three months, I've always loved being able to smash the face in of anything that looks at me funny.
Post by: umiman on June 12, 2017, 12:41:39 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 12, 2017, 12:44:03 pm
There's also a new, short gameplay video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhrrZilPVoI) and an image showing off some High Elves. (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCIp1zZWsAAubhL.jpg:large) Apparently a longer gameplay video will be coming out, possibly as E3 continues.
@umiman: Oh yes, those cunning sods. There was an enterprising investigator in the forum thread I linked above.
Post by: umiman on June 12, 2017, 12:53:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on June 12, 2017, 02:31:50 pm
I assume "reworked race" to be something in the archives getting the brettonia treatment.
Norsca is a possibility. Could potentially be an ogre horde army or they'll squeeze Khemri into the old world map, but those are unlikely at best
Post by: Majestic7 on June 12, 2017, 02:35:52 pm
Post by: umiman on June 12, 2017, 03:53:01 pm
I foresee major spell effects that then kill three dudes, but are pretty to look at. :PI'm okay with that, since numbers can be tweaked. A lot more difficult to tweak spell graphical effects.
Though they did mention they're overhauling the magic system.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 13, 2017, 02:54:51 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 14, 2017, 08:32:42 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 14, 2017, 08:23:25 pm
On one hand, the High Elves would logically have an insane starting positing due to Ulthuan ruling the waves, but on the other hand, Lizardmen are hilariously killy from what fluff I know.
Dwarves made sense due to an insane economy and simple tactics in 1.
Post by: Tack on June 14, 2017, 09:04:23 pm
Dark Elves will be the mobility focus, Skaven will be hordes and Tech, and I'm hoping Lizardmen will be Beatsticks n' Co.
One thing which annoys me slightly is that Goblins, Skinks and Clanrats/Skavenslaves were kind of necessary parts of the old game, but the Total War games generally emphasize using only the most elite units, damn the cost.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 15, 2017, 12:52:24 am
It would be nice if basic skaven were free or replenished anywhere or something, so there'd be an incentive for them to use some as inexhaustible fodder.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 15, 2017, 01:54:18 am
Zombies as charge catches and Skeleton Warriors as cheap flankers. The only armies which I really replace all the basic units is Warriors of Chaos where all infantry ends up being about 2 units of each Chosen type (with slight differences based on lord). Mostly because Warriors of Chaos can't reinforce without suffering the attrition from nearby armies so the armies have to survive on their own.
I think the easiest faction in Warhammer 2 will be either Lizardmen or High Elves. High Elves because Ulthuan is an island and Lizardmen because I assume the jungles of Lustria will cause attrition like Athel Loren as well as their high leadership.
Post by: Teneb on June 15, 2017, 10:15:27 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 15, 2017, 11:52:51 am
Basic units are still very good. Empire, Vampires, Wood Elves and Brettonia all have no infantry shields in their high-tier units, and VCs also can use zombies to both tarpit and trigger the raise dead in the campaign map. Regular goblins for Greenskins are actually surprisingly good. As long as you can keep their leadership up, they can wreck a lot of units (anti-infantry ones are notable exceptions). Beastmen are stuck with shitty archers. Dwarfs and WoC are the only ones where you really should replace all your low-tier units....But Vampires do have infantry shields in a high tier unit, Grave Guard.
And Brettonian Battle Pilgrims also have shields, and I think they're on par with Foot Squires?
Post by: Teneb on June 15, 2017, 12:57:50 pm
Yeah, I derped hard on those two. I think it's mostly that I prefer to invest into great weapon grave guard instead of regular ones.Basic units are still very good. Empire, Vampires, Wood Elves and Brettonia all have no infantry shields in their high-tier units, and VCs also can use zombies to both tarpit and trigger the raise dead in the campaign map. Regular goblins for Greenskins are actually surprisingly good. As long as you can keep their leadership up, they can wreck a lot of units (anti-infantry ones are notable exceptions). Beastmen are stuck with shitty archers. Dwarfs and WoC are the only ones where you really should replace all your low-tier units....But Vampires do have infantry shields in a high tier unit, Grave Guard.
And Brettonian Battle Pilgrims also have shields, and I think they're on par with Foot Squires?
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2017, 02:43:41 pm
1. Starting out, trying to get the best of everything. Game takes 200 turns just for me to try and even put a dent in Dwarfs. Let alone anyone else.
2. Gave up, just decided to spam the map with shitty armies of zombies and wolves everywhere. Literally gave no shits when entire armies died. Won the game 50 turns later. I think the only high tier army I had running around was Kemmler's immortal stack. Back when there wasn't a regen cap. Impossible to kill anything in that army.
I've always kinda had an affinity to giant blobs of units rather than a bunch of elites. It was the same in Shogun 2 and FotS too. Having an army of like 2000 ashigaru was way WAY WAY scarier than like 500 elite marines.
I still treasure my screenshots of me winning battles 1v3 just by running at them until they all died.
Post by: Teneb on June 15, 2017, 03:11:00 pm
My VC legendary campaign went like this:My VH/VH vampire victory involved using Vlad with a bunch of zombies and skeletons for raise dead fodder, Isabella pretty much glued to him with an army featuring nothing but fliers and heroes (and even then, it was just like 10 units) and a solo vampire lord, also tagging along. Vampire goon squad can roll over pretty much everything.
1. Starting out, trying to get the best of everything. Game takes 200 turns just for me to try and even put a dent in Dwarfs. Let alone anyone else.
2. Gave up, just decided to spam the map with shitty armies of zombies and wolves everywhere. Literally gave no shits when entire armies died. Won the game 50 turns later. I think the only high tier army I had running around was Kemmler's immortal stack. Back when there wasn't a regen cap. Impossible to kill anything in that army.
I've always kinda had an affinity to giant blobs of units rather than a bunch of elites. It was the same in Shogun 2 and FotS too. Having an army of like 2000 ashigaru was way WAY WAY scarier than like 500 elite marines.
I still treasure my screenshots of me winning battles 1v3 just by running at them until they all died.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 15, 2017, 03:45:49 pm
Ah well. In a few months, TW2 comes out, so I can poke around there.
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2017, 04:22:22 pm
I need to try out that subfaction sometime. Still haven't tried it yet, though I've been meaning too.My VC legendary campaign went like this:My VH/VH vampire victory involved using Vlad with a bunch of zombies and skeletons for raise dead fodder, Isabella pretty much glued to him with an army featuring nothing but fliers and heroes (and even then, it was just like 10 units) and a solo vampire lord, also tagging along. Vampire goon squad an roll over pretty much everything.
1. Starting out, trying to get the best of everything. Game takes 200 turns just for me to try and even put a dent in Dwarfs. Let alone anyone else.
2. Gave up, just decided to spam the map with shitty armies of zombies and wolves everywhere. Literally gave no shits when entire armies died. Won the game 50 turns later. I think the only high tier army I had running around was Kemmler's immortal stack. Back when there wasn't a regen cap. Impossible to kill anything in that army.
I've always kinda had an affinity to giant blobs of units rather than a bunch of elites. It was the same in Shogun 2 and FotS too. Having an army of like 2000 ashigaru was way WAY WAY scarier than like 500 elite marines.
I still treasure my screenshots of me winning battles 1v3 just by running at them until they all died.
Post by: Teneb on June 15, 2017, 05:26:46 pm
You can actually take West and East Sylvannia by turn 6 or so with that faction. Yes, on VH/VH.I need to try out that subfaction sometime. Still haven't tried it yet, though I've been meaning too.My VC legendary campaign went like this:My VH/VH vampire victory involved using Vlad with a bunch of zombies and skeletons for raise dead fodder, Isabella pretty much glued to him with an army featuring nothing but fliers and heroes (and even then, it was just like 10 units) and a solo vampire lord, also tagging along. Vampire goon squad can roll over pretty much everything.
1. Starting out, trying to get the best of everything. Game takes 200 turns just for me to try and even put a dent in Dwarfs. Let alone anyone else.
2. Gave up, just decided to spam the map with shitty armies of zombies and wolves everywhere. Literally gave no shits when entire armies died. Won the game 50 turns later. I think the only high tier army I had running around was Kemmler's immortal stack. Back when there wasn't a regen cap. Impossible to kill anything in that army.
I've always kinda had an affinity to giant blobs of units rather than a bunch of elites. It was the same in Shogun 2 and FotS too. Having an army of like 2000 ashigaru was way WAY WAY scarier than like 500 elite marines.
I still treasure my screenshots of me winning battles 1v3 just by running at them until they all died.
The way I did it: Start with Vlad. Recruit Isabella, and have the two heroes join her. Raise dead with Vlad, move over to the Moot, raise dead again, loot and occupy (so you don't get attrition, plus replenishment) the settlement. Next turn recruit a generic VC, move Isabella over to Vlad and have him give her all the bats and vargheists, before marching towards Drakenhof and raising dead again. Rush over both Isabella and the VC to Drakenhof (use forced march if you got to) in the next turn before besieging with Vlad and assaulting right away. You'll probably need to fight it out personally, but you can pull it off as long as you indulge in Lord sniping with your Lore of Death vampire and the vargheists.
Once Drakenhof is yours, you'll probably had enough casualties in the siege to raise more than a bunch of zombies and the odd skeleton. Next turn you rush down Mannfred with the Three Amigos and take Drakenhof. After that it's just mop up.
Vlad and Isabella get crazy strong when on the same battle. If you got Grim & Grave, you should also recruit whatever RORs you unlock in the process.
After this mad rush you can probably blitz through the Empire running on nothing but raise dead, or even just wipe out Reikland and go grab the Border Princes and Brettonia for your wincon. You can even do it before Archaon shows up, getting you an instant win.
----
Currently doing a VH/VH Carcassone run, which is also my first real Brettonia run, and I've already managed to get 400 chivalry without leaving my starting province thanks to beastmen and low public order. I don't think CA anticipated this.
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2017, 05:55:39 pm
After this mad rush you can probably blitz through the Empire running on nothing but raise dead, or even just wipe out Reikland and go grab the Border Princes and Brettonia for your wincon. You can even do it before Archaon shows up, getting you an instant win.I don't think it's possible to win without Mr. Flappy Bird showing up unless you mod the game.
Chaos is spawned based on time or Imperium levels, whichever comes first.
Post by: Teneb on June 15, 2017, 06:11:03 pm
It is, but it's a delicate balance. Vassals count for wincons, but not for imperium. Same goes for allies.After this mad rush you can probably blitz through the Empire running on nothing but raise dead, or even just wipe out Reikland and go grab the Border Princes and Brettonia for your wincon. You can even do it before Archaon shows up, getting you an instant win.I don't think it's possible to win without Mr. Flappy Bird showing up unless you mod the game.
Chaos is spawned based on time or Imperium levels, whichever comes first.
Post by: umiman on June 15, 2017, 07:02:00 pm
I doubt it can be done except on ezmode difficulties but then again, I know people can beat Shogun 2 legendary in 8 turns. So... probably possible.It is, but it's a delicate balance. Vassals count for wincons, but not for imperium. Same goes for allies.After this mad rush you can probably blitz through the Empire running on nothing but raise dead, or even just wipe out Reikland and go grab the Border Princes and Brettonia for your wincon. You can even do it before Archaon shows up, getting you an instant win.I don't think it's possible to win without Mr. Flappy Bird showing up unless you mod the game.
Chaos is spawned based on time or Imperium levels, whichever comes first.
Post by: umiman on June 19, 2017, 01:55:09 pm
---
So I did give the VC a go. You know, the real OG VC. VC numero uno.
Also did it on Steel Faith VH because why not. I kinda like some of the things it does, though I wish I could use Cataph's magic in it alongside some other things.
---
I tried to use Teneb's suggestions but unfortunately Steel Faith kinda makes it impossible as you literally start with a budget deficit. I tried starting with both Vlad and Isabella but ended up bankrupt in 2 turns. I didn't really want to disband the blood knights either.
So, since I basically was on a timer due to having like -400 monies per turn, I had to work with what I had. Since Steel Faith also buffs up defensive garrisons quite a bit (especially capitals), I had to kinda go somewhere else instead.
So began my blitz to just declare war and conquer as much holdings as I could to resolve this budget problem. Took the halflings first. I thought it would be easy, but the increased garrisons actually hurts quite a bit. Then some random town to the left of that. Then another one to the bottom. Still not enough money. Kept fighting and fighting cause if I stopped I'd basically lose in like 3 turns. I'd conquer provincial capitals with Vlad, some bats, 2 vargheists, and some blood knights. Not easy considering those garrisons are around 2000 men.
By turn 20 or so Vlad was level 18. He basically gained one level per turn.
So now I turned my attention back towards the other undead factions that I completely ignored until now. They were also allied to each other for some reason. So I slaughtered Templehof and now it was just Manny the Manlet remaining.
---
This one was interesting. Manny had four fullstack armies despite only having his starting city. However, other than the LLs and the Vargulf, they were all skeletons and zombies. That was it. It was like.... 7000 units of zombies and skeletons all clumped together in a big deathball. What's a guy to do in that situation? YOLO.
So there's Vlad with about 1000 troops. Those include the same now gold chevron blood knights, two vargheists, and some bats. The rest were zombies and the RoR Grave Guard. Versus 7 times their number alongside Manny, Kemmler, Ghorst, and some random shitter. The only thing Vlad has going for him? He's level 18 and the other lords are max level 3. Manny is only level 2.
---
It was glorious. One of the most entertaining battles I've had in TWW. Just an endless horde of zombies coming from all sides due to the AI's predilection of constantly flanking you. Me desperately trying to kill the lords all hanging around in the rear with my blood knights and vargheists while Vlad and my zombie front line try to hold against a neverending wave.
---
Things I've noticed about Steel Faith for VC units:
1. Vargheists are really, really strong in Steel Faith. The modder reduced the unit sizes by 2/3 and buffed their stats up to compensate. This is a common theme for many of the supposedly rare troops according to the lore so I'm okay with it. He also gave them significantly increased regeneration, which makes them flying Vargulfs more or less.
2. Blood knights also received the same treatment. There's much less of them, which I'm okay with as it never made sense how there were like 60 of them in a unit when they were supposed to be elite vampires. Their regeneration is ridiculous too now.
3. Holy shit are the regular units slow. Zombies and skeletons move soooooo slowly. It's why I was sieging cities with just Vlad, blood knights, the bats, and vargheists. Everything else took too long to get anywhere.
Post by: Teneb on June 19, 2017, 02:25:14 pm
Post by: umiman on June 19, 2017, 04:48:55 pm
Seems like you did nicely for yourself, though I should probably note that I wasn't using Steel & Faith (I like Crynsos' stuff better, especially since it is the most compatible overhaul around).There's this idiotic bug in TWW where the game crashes more and more the more mods you have. Like, it's not because they're incompatible or anything, but because you have too many. Additionally, there is a point where if you have too many mods, the game won't even launch.
So I started pruning back my mods and making sacrifices just so the game won't crash so much.
It's mostly why I started using the big mod packs. I generally prefer customizing the smaller individual mods.
Post by: Burnt Pies on June 21, 2017, 09:24:39 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PtX_tJdBU4
Post by: Mech#4 on June 21, 2017, 10:14:40 am
It also seems like there will be a number of pre-ruined settlements on the campaign map they mentioned you could plunder or settle.
Somethings I've seen: Just when the camara starts pulling away from Teclis on the Turtle Isles, behind the islands there's this bulb shape on a island. About 4:06 in the video, slightly center-left.
Also, at 2:03 you can see some orange banners that look different from the High Elf ones in the top right corner. I think the province is Nagaryth so maybe they're invading Dark Elves?
At 2:36 I can maybe, just barely see a banner on the deserty looking land in the top left.
Post by: Teneb on June 21, 2017, 12:16:50 pm
Also, at 2:03 you can see some orange banners that look different from the High Elf ones in the top right corner. I think the province is Nagaryth so maybe they're invading Dark Elves?No banner of Nagarythe appears in the trailer, despite the camera panning over it (you also can't see Cothique and Tiranoc). The orange flags have a crescent moon on them, which looks like the Hag Graef flag. Possibly the other playable DElf faction.
Luther Harkon, if he is the vampire lord seen next to a city, uses a generic VC model. Sad!
The desert you see in the trialer is the Huahuan Desert (https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/c/c1/Lustria.png/revision/latest?cb=20161227164428). There is a dwarf flag peeking over a valley just before it get to Teclis. You can see it at 3:50 at the bottom left corner, next to a karak near the middle of the screen. Going by the map... the Mine of Bearded Skulls?
Also of note is that at 1:54 there are two ships with a white horse over a rust field. Estalia?
At 4:45 you can see an Amazon banner at the right side of the screen.
Also,
(https://i.redd.it/87zpql6ih05z.png)
Pizarro intensifies
Post by: Mech#4 on June 21, 2017, 01:13:22 pm
The desert you see in the trialer is the Huahuan Desert (https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/warhammerfb/images/c/c1/Lustria.png/revision/latest?cb=20161227164428).
Earlier at 2:36, just as the camera begins to pan away from Ulthuan. I believe the Huahuan Desert is at 4:10.
At 4:45 you can see an Amazon banner at the right side of the screen.
I think it's a norscan flag. The skull on top and design is the same as those used for the Varg and Skaeling.
Yah, that empire flag is of Pirazzo's Lost Legion. It'll be interesting to see if they look different from the Empire. Not a big deal if they aren't as mods have done a fine job there.
If there's one thing I could wish for it would be making Saphery look more like it was in Warhammer Online, with blue tree leaves, teal grass and purple tinged skies. (http://images.mmorpg.com/images/galleries/formatted/142009/5a72fd43-39b0-4daa-81f4-e95ad7535394.jpg)
Post by: Teneb on June 21, 2017, 01:58:53 pm
Nope (http://fantaroncaro.ghisoft.com/images/race_icons/amazon.gif)!At 4:45 you can see an Amazon banner at the right side of the screen.I think it's a norscan flag. The skull on top and design is the same as those used for the Varg and Skaeling.
I can totally see them reusing flag assets for minor stuff like amazons though.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 21, 2017, 06:26:49 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 21, 2017, 06:56:37 pm
Hi guys, I have vague interest in WH:TW, but am confused why they need to separate it into 2 games instead of releasing expansions or DLCs?
Money
Post by: Teneb on June 21, 2017, 07:00:57 pm
Also the sheer size of it. But money (they are a for-profit corporation, to expect otherwise is silly), marketing, and saying expansion may cause people to not notice it is stand-alone. Fall of the Samurai is stand-alone and wasn't marketed as its own game, causing me and pretty much everyone I asked (huge, reliable sample size, I know) to think it required the base game.Hi guys, I have vague interest in WH:TW, but am confused why they need to separate it into 2 games instead of releasing expansions or DLCs?Money
Post by: umiman on June 21, 2017, 07:15:15 pm
Hi guys, I have vague interest in WH:TW, but am confused why they need to separate it into 2 games instead of releasing expansions or DLCs?They didn't want to only charge $30 or something for a "standalone expansion pack" now and next year when they release TWW3.
So instead they just market it as three separate games so they can charge full price with each having their own full suite of DLC.
So yeah, money.
That being said, if you like the series, it's pretty frigging good. Despite the greed. Also, to be fair, they have given a real shitload of extra free content. So there is that.
Post by: Neonivek on June 21, 2017, 07:16:36 pm
Quote
to be fair, they have given a real shitload of extra free content
Free Content... Unfinished content later released. Same difference really.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 21, 2017, 07:46:15 pm
Post by: umiman on June 21, 2017, 08:18:07 pm
Because it's basically a whole new game's worth of content, and if they made the whole thing and charged 180 bucks for it, nobody'd buy it.That's be almost as dumb as them randomly increasing the prices of all their products across the entire world to make it equal to USD "purchasing power", raising prices in countries like Russia by 89% or even Canada by 40% overnight. Haha, no way anyone is so dumb as to piss away all their goodwill and go from universally loved to universally hated like that.
Oh man, can you imagine if you were a well loved niche strategy game dev who kinda happened to make some really unfinished games with horrible quality DLC the past two years and then decided to pull a move like this?
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 21, 2017, 08:26:45 pm
I think you're probably talking about something recent, but I have no idea what it is.Because it's basically a whole new game's worth of content, and if they made the whole thing and charged 180 bucks for it, nobody'd buy it.That's be almost as dumb as them randomly increasing the prices of all their products across the entire world to make it equal to USD "purchasing power", raising prices in countries like Russia by 89% or even Canada by 40% overnight. Haha, no way anyone is so dumb as to piss away all their goodwill and go from universally loved to universally hated like that.
Oh man, can you imagine if you were a well loved niche strategy game dev who kinda happened to make some really unfinished games with horrible quality DLC the past two years and then decided to pull a move like this?
Post by: umiman on June 21, 2017, 08:39:11 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/6bw3pa/price_increases_for_a_massive_list_in_the/I think you're probably talking about something recent, but I have no idea what it is.Because it's basically a whole new game's worth of content, and if they made the whole thing and charged 180 bucks for it, nobody'd buy it.That's be almost as dumb as them randomly increasing the prices of all their products across the entire world to make it equal to USD "purchasing power", raising prices in countries like Russia by 89% or even Canada by 40% overnight. Haha, no way anyone is so dumb as to piss away all their goodwill and go from universally loved to universally hated like that.
Oh man, can you imagine if you were a well loved niche strategy game dev who kinda happened to make some really unfinished games with horrible quality DLC the past two years and then decided to pull a move like this?
I would have found it cute until I saw CK2's price is now $52 for me in Canada. And the DLC collection is $342.
Paradox have gone mental. All their games are getting blasted with negative reviews.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 21, 2017, 08:51:07 pm
While that is stupid, I'm not sure what it has to do with this game.https://www.reddit.com/r/paradoxplaza/comments/6bw3pa/price_increases_for_a_massive_list_in_the/I think you're probably talking about something recent, but I have no idea what it is.Because it's basically a whole new game's worth of content, and if they made the whole thing and charged 180 bucks for it, nobody'd buy it.That's be almost as dumb as them randomly increasing the prices of all their products across the entire world to make it equal to USD "purchasing power", raising prices in countries like Russia by 89% or even Canada by 40% overnight. Haha, no way anyone is so dumb as to piss away all their goodwill and go from universally loved to universally hated like that.
Oh man, can you imagine if you were a well loved niche strategy game dev who kinda happened to make some really unfinished games with horrible quality DLC the past two years and then decided to pull a move like this?
I would have found it cute until I saw CK2's price is now $52 for me in Canada. And the DLC collection is $342.
Paradox have gone mental. All their games are getting blasted with negative reviews.
Post by: umiman on June 21, 2017, 08:54:32 pm
Because it's basically a whole new game's worth of content, and if they made the whole thing and charged 180 bucks for it, nobody'd buy it.That's be almost as dumb as them randomly increasing the prices of all their products across the entire world to make it equal to USD "purchasing power", raising prices in countries like Russia by 89% or even Canada by 40% overnight. Haha, no way anyone is so dumb as to piss away all their goodwill and go from universally loved to universally hated like that.
Oh man, can you imagine if you were a well loved niche strategy game dev who kinda happened to make some really unfinished games with horrible quality DLC the past two years and then decided to pull a move like this?
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 21, 2017, 08:59:47 pm
...Are you saying making all 3 planned Total War Warhammer games into one 180$ lump is as dumb as that?Because it's basically a whole new game's worth of content, and if they made the whole thing and charged 180 bucks for it, nobody'd buy it.That's be almost as dumb as them randomly increasing the prices of all their products across the entire world to make it equal to USD "purchasing power", raising prices in countries like Russia by 89% or even Canada by 40% overnight. Haha, no way anyone is so dumb as to piss away all their goodwill and go from universally loved to universally hated like that.
Oh man, can you imagine if you were a well loved niche strategy game dev who kinda happened to make some really unfinished games with horrible quality DLC the past two years and then decided to pull a move like this?
Tone's hard to read over the internet.
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 22, 2017, 01:15:57 am
As much as I like the premise of WH:TW, I don't want to support this practice and would rather wait for all 3 games to be bundled together for at least 60% off in far future.
Re Paradox they recently gone publicly traded, so their shareholders are probably pushing for price increases. I'm kind of glad Mount&Blade devs went separate way with them as I dont want my fave game to be riddled by DLCs.
Post by: umiman on June 22, 2017, 01:33:01 am
Thanks for the answers, guys. Is there any savegame portability from the first game to the second then?There's no save game portability. But a few months after two comes out they will release a gigantic map that combines the game maps.
As much as I like the premise of WH:TW, I don't want to support this practice and would rather wait for all 3 games to be bundled together for at least 60% off in far future.
Re Paradox they recently gone publicly traded, so their shareholders are probably pushing for price increases. I'm kind of glad Mount&Blade devs went separate way with them as I dont want my fave game to be riddled by DLCs.
It's not really the kinda game you need save game compatibility for though. I wouldn't worry about that.
If you wanna wait then the full version will probably be done two years from now at discount pricing.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2017, 02:01:55 am
Also: On save files I would recommend people to clear out their save file folder in "C:\Users\Username\AppData\Roaming\The Creative Assembly\Warhammer\save_games" every so often, as for me the save files average in about 10MB each.
Warhammer 2 is not an expansion adding new factions to the existing map in Warhammer 1. It has a seperate campaign map with 4 new factions, mechanics and goals. A few weeks after release a combined campaign will be added for free that combines the maps from Warhammer 1 and 2, Which factions will be playable in this combined campaign be be determined by whether you own Warhammer 1, 2, both and any faction DLC like "Realm of the Wood Elves".
Aside: Even if you only buy Warhammer 2, I suspect that when the combined campaign map gets released you will be able to play as Bretonnia as they were released as a free faction. Whether Bretonnia has a presence in the Warhammer 2 campaign we don't know yet. Though lorewise Bretonnia does have a presence in the Southlands with some crusaderstate-like settlements.
Post by: Shadowgandor on June 22, 2017, 04:54:20 am
Note; I'm not bashing on Injustice. It's a well received game yet still quite similar to its predecessor, reusing and tweaking what was already made. It's just the difference in reception that I don't get.
Post by: Radio Controlled on June 22, 2017, 05:12:02 am
Post by: BuriBuriZaemon on June 22, 2017, 05:34:58 am
I honestly don't really understand the hate towards TWW2 being released standalone and for full price. If you look at a game like Injustice and its sequel, it's still quite similar to its predecessor and I don't hear any complains about that.
I've never followed Injustice, but personally I don't think it's right if we, as customers, don't question anti-customer behaviours, simply because it's been done by other publishers without repercussion. Once we let it slip, it'll become an industry trend. This was how early access and abandoned game are on the rise. We, as customers, are responsible for encouraging such behaviours by supporting it with our wallet.
Anyway, for someone not familiar with WH universe, how does the campaign differ between WH:TW and WH:TW 2? Is there some sort of chronological progression? Or alternate story?
Post by: umiman on June 22, 2017, 05:39:22 am
So you can put it whenever you like.
There's seriously no time in the game. There are no beginning or end dates. No one dies of old age. Every campaign is stand alone. The only stories are those you write in your head.
Post by: Teneb on June 22, 2017, 05:42:46 am
Aside: Even if you only buy Warhammer 2, I suspect that when the combined campaign map gets released you will be able to play as Bretonnia as they were released as a free faction. Whether Bretonnia has a presence in the Warhammer 2 campaign we don't know yet. Though lorewise Bretonnia does have a presence in the Southlands with some crusaderstate-like settlements.I think CA has said you only get the combined campaign map if you own both games (and, later, also if you own games 1 and 3, without needing #2).
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2017, 06:41:02 am
Aside: Even if you only buy Warhammer 2, I suspect that when the combined campaign map gets released you will be able to play as Bretonnia as they were released as a free faction. Whether Bretonnia has a presence in the Warhammer 2 campaign we don't know yet. Though lorewise Bretonnia does have a presence in the Southlands with some crusaderstate-like settlements.I think CA has said you only get the combined campaign map if you own both games (and, later, also if you own games 1 and 3, without needing #2).
I couldn't remember exactly. Here is an excert from the Warhammer 2 F.A.Q that clears the point.
Do I need the original game to play Total War: WARHAMMER II?
No, you don’t need the first game in the trilogy in order to play WARHAMMER II. However, if you do own the first game as well as the WARHAMMER II, you’ll also be able to choose to play on a huge new combined campaign map (see below). So owners of both games will have three large and different campaign maps to choose from.
So it is as you say; You need to own both Warhammer 1 and 2 to play on the combined map.
@BuriBuriZaemon: The campaign in Warhammer: Total War is rather light on story with an eventual invasion by the forces of Chaos headed by Archaon. After that is dealt with the world continues on in whatever state it is left in with factions most likely going to war against each other now the big Chaos threat has, maybe, been defeated. (When Archaon shows up, all Order factions (Dwarfs, Empire etc) get a large bonus to diplomacy, banding together against Chaos. Afterwards the bonus is lost and most factions devolve into wars against each other).
In Warhammer 2 the campaign has a much more developed story. The vortex created by the High Elves millenia ago to syphon away excess magic has begun to destabilize. Each faction has a number of missions to achieve to complete rituals designed to either stabilize or destroy the vortex. This will most likely mean each faction will have to send armies all over the place to specific locations to complete these missions.
In Warhammer lore the vortex was created to help stem the original invasion of the Warhammer world by huge hordes of Daemons of Chaos. By draining away the magic the daemons are unable to materialize in the world except close to the north and south pole. It has not been mentioned whether any daemons will make an appearance in Warhammer 2.
Post by: Neonivek on June 22, 2017, 06:49:28 am
The concept of time doesn't exist within the games. Hell, the concept of time is very vague even in the lore while being completely nonexistent within the realm of chaos.
So you can put it whenever you like.
There's seriously no time in the game. There are no beginning or end dates. No one dies of old age. Every campaign is stand alone. The only stories are those you write in your head.
Even in the Lore it can feel like the world is in this perpetual state of stasis... I mean things happen, but nothing happens.
Post by: Teneb on June 22, 2017, 06:53:33 am
Because that was very much the case. Then GW decided to throw it all out the window to bring out Age of Sigmar and it's maximum copyright names. AoS is actually decent, but the names? Fyreslayers? Orruks? Aelves?The concept of time doesn't exist within the games. Hell, the concept of time is very vague even in the lore while being completely nonexistent within the realm of chaos.
So you can put it whenever you like.
There's seriously no time in the game. There are no beginning or end dates. No one dies of old age. Every campaign is stand alone. The only stories are those you write in your head.
Even in the Lore it can feel like the world is in this perpetual state of stasis... I mean things happen, but nothing happens.
Post by: umiman on June 22, 2017, 12:49:37 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2017, 01:15:37 pm
The game and all its dlc is on an okay-ish sale at Steam right now.
From what is shown on the Steam store the sale is -66% off for Warhammer 1 and -33% off for all the DLC packs.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 22, 2017, 01:43:33 pm
Post by: Tack on June 22, 2017, 02:37:18 pm
I hated CA for releasing Attilla as a 'Game-priced Standalone', but a bundle of players have recently turned it around, saying it is actually a game in its own right.
I don't think you can hold them to a standard of "One game per time period" or even "One game per setting". It's more like 'One game per X man-hours'.
WTW is a full-sized game to me.
I expect W:2TW to be a full sized game as well. It's not like we won't get new maps, models, playstyles and mechanics. That's more than people expect from AAA FPSs nowadays.
If they disappoint me there I'll feel free to join the hateclub. But I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt, at least for now.
Went through your previous posts here, and can't actually see whether or not you've even played the game yet. Have you?
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 22, 2017, 03:11:01 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 22, 2017, 03:22:20 pm
Like, the Storm of Chaos campaign is a whole damned game, and a game's worth of, well, game.
The Vortex of Ulthuan campaign is a entirely different game, and another game's worth of game.
Sure, they slot together.
But that's basically two games of game in one bigass map.
Like... Bloodmoon, and Tribunal for Morrowind.
Game-costing expansions that add a game's of content.
Maybe I'm just nuts.
Whatever, I'll buy TW1 and start the DL of it today. 66% when I'm planning on LPing TW2 when it comes out is damn good.
Post by: Radio Controlled on June 22, 2017, 03:32:49 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 22, 2017, 10:47:46 pm
It really isn't the "Well, it took as much development as the first time... So we should charge as much as the first time" that some people are making it out to be defensively.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 22, 2017, 11:07:27 pm
I would suggest that by having the basic framework already done we are seeing the benefits of this in the more detailed campaign plot, addition of cinematics for campaign events, more unique race mechanics and things like the fortress battles for the gates in Ulthuan and the ruin looting mini-quest system. From the announcement of Warhammer 1 in April 2015, I think it's reasonable to believe the game had been in development for at least a year previously.
Post by: Neonivek on June 22, 2017, 11:09:13 pm
If they didn't reuse parts from Warhammer 1, merging the two would probably be harder and they would be just creating more work for themselves for little benefit.
I don't know how it is possible that they didn't reuse parts from Warhammer 1 given this isn't a sequel and there is supposed to be cross compatibility...
I mean... The Fall of the Samurai reused parts from Shogun 2 total war.
This isn't even going from Skyrim to Oblivion... This is going from Skyrim to the Dragon DLC... New Location.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2017, 09:46:19 am
Oblivion came before Skyrim.If they didn't reuse parts from Warhammer 1, merging the two would probably be harder and they would be just creating more work for themselves for little benefit.
I don't know how it is possible that they didn't reuse parts from Warhammer 1 given this isn't a sequel and there is supposed to be cross compatibility...
I mean... The Fall of the Samurai reused parts from Shogun 2 total war.
This isn't even going from Skyrim to Oblivion... This is going from Skyrim to the Dragon DLC... New Location.
If Total War Warhammer 2 came out before TW1 and managed to also come out later, I'd buy it on the grounds of time travelers being bloody awesome.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2017, 07:31:06 pm
The Vampire Counts are trash against a high-end Dwarf army.
And the AI thinks 2 armies of Skeletons and Zombies with a side of a minor garrison beat a Dwarf army at the high end.
6.4 k dead.
Eighty-two Dawi fallen.
I don't think I've had this much fun in years.
The Ironbreakers are amazing.
Post by: Neonivek on June 23, 2017, 07:38:13 pm
And Dwarves are very well equipped to fight trash.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2017, 07:51:30 pm
It has to do with the fact that Vampire's bottom units are flat out trash... and the AI doesn't seem to catch onto this fact...I just can't stop giggling.
And Dwarves are very well equipped to fight trash.
It was hilarious. The autoresolve said "Yer fucked" and as I'm rather new to this, I went "Well, may as well lose this army hard", because 6.4k against 1.2k.
They had 2 units of Grave Guard period. Which got vaped by artillery.
Seriously, I think that undead may be the worst match to the Dwarves period. My Quarrelers were melting everything they shot at.
I didn't even have any of Thorgrim's relics by then!
I mean, I'm on normal, but still!
Also, this game has rather obtuse movement controls. Rather annoying.
Anyway, question: What's a good loadout for a Dwarf artillery battery? Been going 2 Flame Cannon 2 Organ Gun, but they're a lot shorter range than Cannons and Grudge Throwers.
Post by: Neonivek on June 23, 2017, 08:11:08 pm
Post by: Persus13 on June 23, 2017, 08:40:04 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 23, 2017, 09:30:40 pm
Its gotten better though. I think the problem is that it places a higher value on unit models than it should.
It seems largely based on their exact stats.
For Dwarves it might as well be imaginary and for Undead it overestimates them.
Post by: umiman on June 23, 2017, 09:53:06 pm
Anyway, question: What's a good loadout for a Dwarf artillery battery? Been going 2 Flame Cannon 2 Organ Gun, but they're a lot shorter range than Cannons and Grudge Throwers.Glad you're having fun.
Just go with what you need. Dwarf artillery is fairly flexible.
Flame weapons are only used against unarmoured enemies, of which they will slaughter horrendously. This makes them excellent against pansy wood elves or zombies or what have you. They're kinda worthless against heavy armour for... some... reason. I think it's just a holdover from tabletop rules or something like that.
Organ guns are like a really, really basic early machinegun. It has armour piercing as well. They best way to use it is to use manual fire control (if you don't know what that is, press the insert key on your keyboard when you have artillery selected).
Cannons are better against large, small unit sizes like say... a giant. Or even trolls. Anything big enough for it to hit reliably and do massive damage to. It doesn't do as much AOE damage as a catapult would.
Catapults are fantastic at obliterating groups of infantry. You really shouldn't discount these even in the late game. If you're fighting empire or Chaos and they have lots of infantry, I'd bring a bunch of these catapults.
The DLC adds a bolt thrower. It's basically just a discount variation of a cannon. It's shittier in almost every way but price and upkeep.
Post by: Teneb on June 23, 2017, 09:58:00 pm
The DLC adds a bolt thrower. It's basically just a discount variation of a cannon. It's shittier in almost every way but price and upkeep.I thought it was more accurate?
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2017, 10:07:32 pm
So as I'm fighting Chaos, I want the Grudge Throwers and Cannons, for sniping monsters(I was wondering why I couldn't counterbattery a Cygor for shit earlier!) and for slaughtering infantry.Anyway, question: What's a good loadout for a Dwarf artillery battery? Been going 2 Flame Cannon 2 Organ Gun, but they're a lot shorter range than Cannons and Grudge Throwers.Glad you're having fun.
Just go with what you need. Dwarf artillery is fairly flexible.
Flame weapons are only used against unarmoured enemies, of which they will slaughter horrendously. This makes them excellent against pansy wood elves or zombies or what have you. They're kinda worthless against heavy armour for... some... reason. I think it's just a holdover from tabletop rules or something like that.
Organ guns are like a really, really basic early machinegun. It has armour piercing as well. They best way to use it is to use manual fire control (if you don't know what that is, press the insert key on your keyboard when you have artillery selected).
Cannons are better against large, small unit sizes like say... a giant. Or even trolls. Anything big enough for it to hit reliably and do massive damage to. It doesn't do as much AOE damage as a catapult would.
Catapults are fantastic at obliterating groups of infantry. You really shouldn't discount these even in the late game. If you're fighting empire or Chaos and they have lots of infantry, I'd bring a bunch of these catapults.
The DLC adds a bolt thrower. It's basically just a discount variation of a cannon. It's shittier in almost every way but price and upkeep.
Also a few Orcs, but I've got Ironbreakers and they're fielding Savage Boyz due to how hard I've been thumping them. So eh.
Well, I guess I wasted a few thousand gold on "upgrading" my cannonry. Ah well, I'm a Dwarf, I've got enough money I spend 30k bribing the Empire to trade with me.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 23, 2017, 10:24:03 pm
I like using the Ironbreakers, but I think you need to turn off their auto-fire of throwing the bomb satchels or they don't brace in time for enemy charges.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2017, 10:50:50 pm
I think the tools for Vampire Counts against the Dwarfs is their strong heroes and lords as well as their access to magic. Wind of Death is great against the heavily armoured Dwarf units (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nntub6y2X2w) while various other spells are good for reducing the dwarfs armour, increasing your armour piercing and melee damage and lowering the dwarfs leadership. Magic is something the A.I. uses but not that well.As the count's themselves are just Drakenhof, Templehof is wiped out, and the Empire is going at the Von Carsteins, I think their counter to my massive beardy empire is "Surrender".
I like using the Ironbreakers, but I think you need to turn off their auto-fire of throwing the bomb satchels or they don't brace in time for enemy charges.
Speaking of which, is there a way besides murdering the fuck out of faction to stop them surrendering to you?
Because Vlad and Mannfred keep going "OH GOD TAKE 6k GOLD AND LEAVE US ALONE" and I don't want to do that so I don't offend my allies. Templehof did too, but he attacked me on the way to Karak Kadrin, so I wiped his settlements out.
Seriously, it's annoying. I don't want to spare the forces to bother to wipe them out, I'm containing a minor Savage Orc faction to farm for any later quests, and Chaos is going full Archeon on the world right now, so i'm fighting off the group of Norscans on the lower areas with my troops.
Post by: Thexor on June 23, 2017, 11:20:47 pm
One is to just raze the fiends. As the Dwarfs you can't occupy Sylvania anyways, razing is the only permanent solution. The humans will _probably_ leave that land alone (though there's a slim chance they'll colonize it, let a rebellion happen, and suddenly the Vamps are back!).
The second is to take the peace deal. It's a minor diplomatic penalty at best for signing peace - in fact, I don't believe there's any penalty for making peace, so the only penalty is the tiny ongoing one for "deals with Vampire Counts" which will be, like, -1 relations or something irrelevant. That said, I would point out that, if they're actually offering 6k, that means they've still got a pretty high economic strength, so you might want to deal a little more damage to them before you peace out and let them rebuild their army!
Also, fun fact: being in a military alliance obligates you to join any wars your allies start, but for some crazy reason does not require you to join any war your allies are already in. Assuming you won't suffer a trustworthiness penalty for declaring peace, you're free to take the offer, and then you may reject any request from your 'allies' to rejoin the war without even a relationship penalty.
The third, which only cool people with high self-confidence will do, is vassalize them. The upside is that you get your very own Vampiric minions to direct against whatever foes you see fit. The downside is that your relations will go down much more rapidly than if you'd just peaced them out, not to mention that Manny is a backstabbing schemer and will probably betray you before you have a chance to do anything with him. But hey, vassalizing an undead overlord is far more fun than wiping them out or aborting the war, so why not?
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 23, 2017, 11:27:41 pm
I mean, you've got a few options.Razing's out as it needs an army and Chaos is scary shit I don't want to play around with.
One is to just raze the fiends. As the Dwarfs you can't occupy Sylvania anyways, razing is the only permanent solution. The humans will _probably_ leave that land alone (though there's a slim chance they'll colonize it, let a rebellion happen, and suddenly the Vamps are back!).
The second is to take the peace deal. It's a minor diplomatic penalty at best for signing peace - in fact, I don't believe there's any penalty for making peace, so the only penalty is the tiny ongoing one for "deals with Vampire Counts" which will be, like, -1 relations or something irrelevant. That said, I would point out that, if they're actually offering 6k, that means they've still got a pretty high economic strength, so you might want to deal a little more damage to them before you peace out and let them rebuild their army!
Also, fun fact: being in a military alliance obligates you to join any wars your allies start, but for some crazy reason does not require you to join any war your allies are already in. Assuming you won't suffer a trustworthiness penalty for declaring peace, you're free to take the offer, and then you may reject any request from your 'allies' to rejoin the war without even a relationship penalty.
The third, which only cool people with high self-confidence will do, is vassalize them. The upside is that you get your very own Vampiric minions to direct against whatever foes you see fit. The downside is that your relations will go down much more rapidly than if you'd just peaced them out, not to mention that Manny is a backstabbing schemer and will probably betray you before you have a chance to do anything with him. But hey, vassalizing an undead overlord is far more fun than wiping them out or aborting the war, so why not?
But, uh, they're literally Drakenhof. Tier V Drakenhof, but Drakenhof.
Everything else was Templehof until they attacked me, earned a grudge, and proceeded to get their entire society murdered.
I have gotten Vassal offers off them, actually. But I don't want to piss everyone off, so I guess I'll just peace with them and bring all power down on the horrors of Chaos.
Vampires can die later when the Doom Tide is over.
Post by: umiman on June 24, 2017, 12:04:27 am
I think the tools for Vampire Counts against the Dwarfs is their strong heroes and lords as well as their access to magic. Wind of Death is great against the heavily armoured Dwarf units (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nntub6y2X2w) while various other spells are good for reducing the dwarfs armour, increasing your armour piercing and melee damage and lowering the dwarfs leadership. Magic is something the A.I. uses but not that well.Keep the charges on. Their purpose is to disrupt the charge and reduce the enemy's charge bonus for the units that were hit.
I like using the Ironbreakers, but I think you need to turn off their auto-fire of throwing the bomb satchels or they don't brace in time for enemy charges.
The brace bonus stays regardless if you throw.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 24, 2017, 12:39:01 am
The good thing is when a faction asks for peace, you can usually increase the gold they offer. A brief war against the Dwarfs as Tilia saw me sack two of their settlements, after which they asked for peace which I made 5000 gold off of.
@umiman: Good to know about the blasting charges.
Post by: Teneb on June 24, 2017, 09:45:31 am
You want zombies to hold units in place, while crypt horros and varghulfs disrupt the lines so skeletons and grave guard can move in. Bats attack the siege engines to keep them from firing, vargheists go for tastier targets like heroes. You'll definitely want a Lore of Death caster for lord sniping.
As for your actual situation: you'll absolutely want to raze Drakenhof, especially since the WoC are coming. Vampires don't get the whole truce bonus/ai attitude change for the Storm of Chaos/End Times event, so they'll still try to be dicks about it.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 24, 2017, 12:42:53 pm
EDIT: I found it, but holy shit is it incredibly buried.
EDIT: I managed to get workshop mods working on Mac as well. An entirely convoluted process, but actually not that hard.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 24, 2017, 02:57:14 pm
How the bloody hell do you support five armies off Drakenhof alone, and then batter away Sarthoreal and Archaon in one go with them?
I mean, they're mostly zombies, but jeez VC, you really helped cleanse the world. Peacing out with you was actually useful!
Also, I can't seem to confederate with Clan Angrund despite the Shield of Civilization bonuses, and the +213 rep I have with them. And not in the "it's red", I mean "button aint' fucking THERE".
What's going on with that? Is it because I lack The King And The Warlord?
Post by: Teneb on June 24, 2017, 02:59:05 pm
...The counts get to live.It might be.
How the bloody hell do you support five armies off Drakenhof alone, and then batter away Sarthoreal and Archaon in one go with them?
I mean, they're mostly zombies, but jeez VC, you really helped cleanse the world. Peacing out with you was actually useful!
Also, I can't seem to confederate with Clan Angrund despite the Shield of Civilization bonuses, and the +213 rep I have with them. And not in the "it's red", I mean "button aint' fucking THERE".
What's going on with that? Is it because I lack The King And The Warlord?
Post by: umiman on June 25, 2017, 02:39:53 pm
Skip ahead a few dozen turns and I'm fighting the Chaos hordes.
I've done this before in my legendary campaign do I wasn't expecting much. But goddamn. I was not prepared.
SF buffs chaos to ludicrous, absurd degrees. To illustrate how insane they are, a single one of their random stacks straight up walked up and attacked Kislev with a full stack of units defending it and a gigantic garrison, didn't even bother waiting for siege equipment and attacked.
The autoresolve screen showed me with 0 chance of victory even with about 6x their number. And these ain't zombies and skellingtons. Grave guards, Terrorgheist, big stuff. I thought the game was joking... But I thought wrong.
Imagine if all the Chaos Warriors were promoted to becoming basically Chosen. Imagine if all the Chosen were more or less walking heroes in groups of 80. Armoured trolls so strong with such insane regen it's like fighting groups of Vlads.
They steamrolled me. They steamrolled everything I had. I had to recall all my armies to Sylvania because that's how far they pushed South. My strategy became "sacrifice two armies of garbage to weaken the one enemy stack before finishing it of".
Even after repelling the initial assault, because it takes so long to even kill one stack, the others have time to respawn back at the wastes. It became a brutal crawl as we slowly made our way back up North into Kislev. The only thing that was in my favor was the wood elfs' silly jihad in Norsca. They had three stacks there in an endless war against the raiders, which helped immensely. No idea why they went all the way up there but more power to them.
It's truly absurd. SF buffed Chaos so frigging much. Was actually pretty fun, though the attrition really hurts. I suspect it someone is more prepared for how crazy strong they are, you'd have a way easier time.
---
Also Archaeon now has a fireball machine gun. It's nuts. You can't fight him from a distance.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 25, 2017, 03:10:58 pm
So anyways, tried a number of different campaigns with SFO. Dwarves and Tilea have been pretty fun thus far. There's certainly a good amount of content, especially with such a great modding community. Playing Tilea, I find myself missing the added challenge of the Skaven. Helped the Dwarves roflstomp the orks to the North then proceeded to head to the land-grab once I saw the the Border Princes had seriously fucked up the badlands--so much so that between myself, The Border Princes, and the Dwarves the Orks were about to get wiped out. Everyone allied with me and I kind of don't feel like head into Bretonnia to fight my Ally's war. Time to betray everyone I guess. Classic Tilea.
Post by: umiman on June 25, 2017, 03:44:56 pm
In a way, isn't that the "I Repelled A Chaos Invasion" experience? Get fucked up then slowly fuck them up at incredible loss to both sides?I can't imagine anyone having any problems with the vanilla Chaos invasion. It's so easy the AI tends to beat them without you doing anything.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 25, 2017, 04:10:12 pm
Chariots.In a way, isn't that the "I Repelled A Chaos Invasion" experience? Get fucked up then slowly fuck them up at incredible loss to both sides?I can't imagine anyone having any problems with the vanilla Chaos invasion. It's so easy the AI tends to beat them without you doing anything.
Seriously, how the bloody hell do you stop those things?
They tank enough hits a full army's of Quarreler fire will only kill off one unit at the most, and the rest of the incoming force of chariots rip through your lines easy.
Post by: umiman on June 25, 2017, 04:22:46 pm
Ah yes, weapons of mass Surtha Ek.Chariots.In a way, isn't that the "I Repelled A Chaos Invasion" experience? Get fucked up then slowly fuck them up at incredible loss to both sides?I can't imagine anyone having any problems with the vanilla Chaos invasion. It's so easy the AI tends to beat them without you doing anything.
Seriously, how the bloody hell do you stop those things?
They tank enough hits a full army's of Quarreler fire will only kill off one unit at the most, and the rest of the incoming force of chariots rip through your lines easy.
If you're using Dwarfs, your best bet is Gyrocopters with brimstone guns. Failing that, slayer spam.
However, Ironbreakers will also stop them. To some degree. Not that you really need to. IIRC, many Dwarf units have charge resistance anyway, making chariots kinda derpy against them.
Get lots of armour piercing stuff. The AI kinda cheats with its chariots in that it can spam a hundred move orders in a second, this allows them to basically disengage from anything. Something you can't really do unless you're seriously micro-ing your own chariots like a god.
With other factions, Chariots do really poorly against large sized units. This means horses, trolls, tanks, giants, heroes, etc. Dwarfs don't really have anything like that. In fact, Dwarfs also don't have anything with anti-large other than Slayers. So your only options are armour piercing or slayers. Good thing is that your armour piercing and slayers are really good at killing them.
---
If you're fighting factions with lots of monsters or large units (basically everyone except Dwarfs honestly), you should bring brimstone guns. They're your best bet at toppling Giants, Araknaroks, Grail Knights, etc. Just be aware they will lose the air fight to almost everything. Including bats.
---
Edit: Oh, there are also irondrakes with torpedoes. You could try those.
Post by: Teneb on June 25, 2017, 05:59:15 pm
Surtha Ek, Loremaster of the Lore of Chariots. The true Lord of the End Times.Chariots.Ah yes, weapons of mass Surtha Ek.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 25, 2017, 09:33:45 pm
So that's good. Also took back everything past Zhufbar finally, was holding the line there for a while.
Now, on Trollhammer Torpedoes, do they go over units? Because I can't really maneuver my troops that don't shoot over very well.
Post by: umiman on June 25, 2017, 09:58:50 pm
Now, on Trollhammer Torpedoes, do they go over units? Because I can't really maneuver my troops that don't shoot over very well.Yeah, they shoot over units.
I don't really use them that much though so not really sure about the intricacies. I think the only time I used them was against Kholek. Worked fantastic.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 26, 2017, 09:31:54 pm
I wiped out the Wood Elves, and for that, they declared war on me! Me!
I'm the High King! Lord of Karaz-A-Karak!
And their armies are like 80% Slayers! Nobody likes Slayers! They're awful!
Belegar, if you want Eight Peaks, ask. I don't need it! I have a bloody Karaz Ankor at this point!
Gwah.
Post by: Teneb on June 26, 2017, 10:12:16 pm
...What the fuck Clan Angrund.That's a grudgin'
I wiped out the Wood Elves, and for that, they declared war on me! Me!
I'm the High King! Lord of Karaz-A-Karak!
And their armies are like 80% Slayers! Nobody likes Slayers! They're awful!
Belegar, if you want Eight Peaks, ask. I don't need it! I have a bloody Karaz Ankor at this point!
Gwah.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 12:53:43 am
If it weren't for the fact that Clan Angrund's main army was basically wiped out by a minor settlement garrison due to being mostly Slayers, I'd build Thorgrim an army of Hammerers solely to beat Belegar's face in. Because Hammerers are the justice system!...What the fuck Clan Angrund.That's a grudgin'
I wiped out the Wood Elves, and for that, they declared war on me! Me!
I'm the High King! Lord of Karaz-A-Karak!
And their armies are like 80% Slayers! Nobody likes Slayers! They're awful!
Belegar, if you want Eight Peaks, ask. I don't need it! I have a bloody Karaz Ankor at this point!
Gwah.
As is, he's got garrisons ans some really odd army compositions like a Lord and 2 Master Engineers, or four cannons.
AI is odd in this game.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 27, 2017, 01:38:48 am
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2017, 02:09:09 am
As is the AI will never recruit high end units and will build complete nonsense in their settlements.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 27, 2017, 03:44:23 am
I guess some compilation mod would skirt around this issue.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 27, 2017, 08:17:05 am
Try and solve the missing word in the message on this page. If you have a Total War Access account (using your Total War forum account will work) you get a code you can redeem for a piece of concept art. (https://www.totalwar.com/ritual/) The art will be listed under "The Ritual" on Total War Access.
This panorama posted on the Total War Facebook should help a bit. (https://business.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461.25910.113800552028487/1521306107944584/?type=3&theater¬if_t=photo_comment¬if_id=1498564838651441)
If you don't have/don't want to create an account you can read through this topic to see the concept art. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/196026/the-ritual/p1)
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2017, 09:19:29 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 11:22:22 am
Just wait till you see Surtra Ek's Chariots of Doom - or Grimgor with ten rock lobbers.Grimgor's very dead. And Surtha Ek's just odd right now.
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2017, 12:07:14 pm
If the rumours are true and Norsca is the next DLC race for the first game, I'll be very disappointed if Surtha Ek is not one of the LLs.Just wait till you see Surtra Ek's Chariots of Doom - or Grimgor with ten rock lobbers.Grimgor's very dead. And Surtha Ek's just odd right now.
EDIT: CA posted this (https://www.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461.25910.113800552028487/1521306107944584/?type=3&theater¬if_t=photo_comment¬if_id=1498564838651441)
EDIT 2: Derp, Mech#4 already posted it.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 12:15:37 pm
Surtha's already a Legendary Lord for Norsca. I tried to shank him yesterday with a Runesmith.If the rumours are true and Norsca is the next DLC race for the first game, I'll be very disappointed if Surtha Ek is not one of the LLs.Just wait till you see Surtra Ek's Chariots of Doom - or Grimgor with ten rock lobbers.Grimgor's very dead. And Surtha Ek's just odd right now.
EDIT: CA posted this (https://www.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461.25910.113800552028487/1521306107944584/?type=3&theater¬if_t=photo_comment¬if_id=1498564838651441)
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2017, 12:18:00 pm
I meant with items, quests, voice lines, faction bonuses and so on. Not just faction leader immortality that everyone has.Surtha's already a Legendary Lord for Norsca. I tried to shank him yesterday with a Runesmith.If the rumours are true and Norsca is the next DLC race for the first game, I'll be very disappointed if Surtha Ek is not one of the LLs.Just wait till you see Surtra Ek's Chariots of Doom - or Grimgor with ten rock lobbers.Grimgor's very dead. And Surtha Ek's just odd right now.
EDIT: CA posted this (https://www.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461.25910.113800552028487/1521306107944584/?type=3&theater¬if_t=photo_comment¬if_id=1498564838651441)
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 12:19:10 pm
Ahh. Okay.I meant with items, quests, voice lines, faction bonuses and so on. Not just faction leader immortality that everyone has.Surtha's already a Legendary Lord for Norsca. I tried to shank him yesterday with a Runesmith.If the rumours are true and Norsca is the next DLC race for the first game, I'll be very disappointed if Surtha Ek is not one of the LLs.Just wait till you see Surtra Ek's Chariots of Doom - or Grimgor with ten rock lobbers.Grimgor's very dead. And Surtha Ek's just odd right now.
EDIT: CA posted this (https://www.facebook.com/TotalWar/photos/a.125554144186461.25910.113800552028487/1521306107944584/?type=3&theater¬if_t=photo_comment¬if_id=1498564838651441)
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2017, 12:33:26 pm
I like to think of a million different players getting so frustrated with this particular Norscan raider as he. keeps. coming. back. And every time he comes back he brings more and more chariots.
I know personally that's what happened to me. My first few campaigns I kept having to deal with this moron. I still fondly remember myself going, "wait a second... Surtha Ek? Didn't I kill this guy before?". "Surtha Ek.... you're here again...". "Oh fuck I need to kill all these Chaos before Surtha Ek shows up again!!!!!"
And then, to seal the entire deal, I had a Dwarf game where I was struggling against the Greenskins and VC. Desperately needed help. Then the goblins managed to get a Waagh up in Karak Kadrin and I was in serious shit. Then out of nowhere. Fucking of ALL PEOPLE. Surtha Motherfucking Ek shows up with his fullstack. He slaughters the Goblins. Then just leaves. Like. Where the fuck did he come from? Why did he come all the way to the mountains? Why did he come just to kill some frigging goblins?!
It was really, truly, beyond my comprehension.
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2017, 01:14:02 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 27, 2017, 02:46:57 pm
EDIT: Also, fuck those Bretonnian fucks.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 05:06:25 pm
Specifically, Karak Ziflin.
I've exterminated every faction I've ever had a Grudge with, in proper Dwarf fashion, so only Brettonia, the Varg, the Empire, and the Skaelings are left.
But I have one grudge left.
The Halfling Pudding Grudge.
I need to perform a Hero Action on Karak Ziflin.
I own Karak Ziflin.
Every other condition? Done.
This last Grudge is all that stands against me and eternal victory.
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2017, 05:19:54 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 05:21:14 pm
...That feels very un-Dawi.
Fuckit. Demolishing the Runic Gates there as well.
There a way to keep Brettonia from interfering? They've been loyal allies, don't wanna exterminate them.
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2017, 05:35:59 pm
...You can raid your own lands?You could bribe them with your billions of dwarfbux.
...That feels very un-Dawi.
Fuckit. Demolishing the Runic Gates there as well.
There a way to keep Brettonia from interfering? They've been loyal allies, don't wanna exterminate them.
By the way, the game will slowly degrade every relationship in the game after Chaos is defeated., so after awhile you will be at war with everyone.
As for raiding yourself, there are quite a number of strats that involve raiding yourself for money, experience, and loot. I also consider it pretty gamey so never use it either... except for the time I was trying to play Durthu in SFO. That start is frigging impossible, man.
Post by: Teneb on June 27, 2017, 06:39:13 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 07:01:09 pm
...I am so ready for TW2 enabling you to conquer everything....You can raid your own lands?You could bribe them with your billions of dwarfbux.
...That feels very un-Dawi.
Fuckit. Demolishing the Runic Gates there as well.
There a way to keep Brettonia from interfering? They've been loyal allies, don't wanna exterminate them.
By the way, the game will slowly degrade every relationship in the game after Chaos is defeated., so after awhile you will be at war with everyone.
As for raiding yourself, there are quite a number of strats that involve raiding yourself for money, experience, and loot. I also consider it pretty gamey so never use it either... except for the time I was trying to play Durthu in SFO. That start is frigging impossible, man.
Karak Couronne and Karak Drakenhof and Karak Altdorf will be so nice.
Also, Grombrindal just got the trait "Likes Chaos" after utterly whupping a Chaos army.
What the shit?
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2017, 07:07:44 pm
...I am so ready for TW2 enabling you to conquer everything.http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=687689947
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 07:28:24 pm
I mean no offense to the creator, but with what I've heard about mods causing crashes on here, I'm not even touching that....I am so ready for TW2 enabling you to conquer everything.http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=687689947
I can wait a few months.
Post by: umiman on June 27, 2017, 07:37:26 pm
...I mean no offense to the creator, but with what I've heard about mods causing crashes on here, I'm not even touching that....I am so ready for TW2 enabling you to conquer everything.http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=687689947
I can wait a few months.
Mods cause crashes if you install too many of them. This is because the launcher doesn't allow us to set load orders. I currently have around 30 mods installed with no crashes occurring.
Being afraid to use mods in games like CK2, XCOM, total war, Skyrim, etc is like being afraid to use the stairs. You've sealed off half of your own house. The moment you actually try to use them, you'll wonder how you managed to play without.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 08:22:45 pm
Uh, I've literally never used a major Skyrim mod(one for overhauling artifacts admittedly), and I've got 1572 hours in it....I mean no offense to the creator, but with what I've heard about mods causing crashes on here, I'm not even touching that....I am so ready for TW2 enabling you to conquer everything.http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=687689947
I can wait a few months.
Mods cause crashes if you install too many of them. This is because the launcher doesn't allow us to set load orders. I currently have around 30 mods installed with no crashes occurring.
Being afraid to use mods in games like CK2, XCOM, total war, Skyrim, etc is like being afraid to use the stairs. You've sealed off half of your own house. The moment you actually try to use them, you'll wonder how you managed to play without.
X-COM... 162 base game, 196 second, gonna go up the time War of the Chosen comes out.
But... hm. I did see one for telling you what the frag traits were acquired from, a la Brettonia, but for everyone. Maybe I'll try that once I finish this Dwarf campaign, as mid-game mod installs just scream disaster at me. Could take a gamble. Worst that happens is an overnight reinstall.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 27, 2017, 10:30:55 pm
Chaos United just tore up Kislev, like literally ruined all the cities and has just hit its first half-united Empire city. A combination of Imperial and Dawi forces decided to cleanse the wood elf with fire (a decision I support entirely) but now Orks and somehow Norsca are running rampant in the Estalia/Tilea area.
Not sure whether to gather my forces in the Wasteland and march along the coast to try and push back Chaos or deal with the other threats which are chipping away at The Empire.
Three armies, nine steam tanks, and some hella lit legends of Marienburg boutta fuck Archaon up.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 27, 2017, 11:15:30 pm
The pudding has been avenged.
Now for a run where I know what the shit I'm doing!
And possibly The King and the Warlord so I can eat Clan Angrund peacefully. That'd be nice.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 28, 2017, 09:04:43 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 28, 2017, 11:38:52 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 28, 2017, 11:55:39 pm
I felt sure you could confederate with DLC factions like Angrund and Crooked Moon without owning the DLC. The lord just wouldn't be immortal or something.Yah, it was mentioned in a stream back when the DLC was coming out. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/186134/confederate-clan-angrund-or-crooked-moon-to-gain-access-to-skarsnik-belegar-without-owning-the-dlc)Well I sure as fuck couldn't.
You'd think Belegar would jump for joy at the choice to join up with the guys who own Karak Eight Peaks.
Fuck, I'd give him it! Well, I would've. New campaign with The King and the Warlord, still normal Dorfs, but now with a clue what I'm doing.
It's surprisingly easy to blitzkrieg the Greenskins into oblivion, honestly. Only remaining forces are Karak Azul and the Top Knotz in the Badlands.
Post by: Neonivek on June 28, 2017, 11:56:40 pm
I firmly recommend the conquer anywhere mod.
It does have some issues in
1) The game is clearly not designed for it. It wanted to railroad you through a very specific path of gameplay, depending on your race this really does weird stuff to the overall gameplay flow (You will probably win very quickly).
and
2) It is entirely against Canon! I mean Imagine a Orc having a outpost on human land! Totally unrealistic!
-This is also why Total War: Warhammer 2 is the worst game ever! because it removed this (from what I hear).
Ps. Obviously #2 is a fake reason... In spite of developer protests.
---
All in all play without the conquer anywhere mod first just so you know how they expect you to play... THEN actually have fun and play with the mod.
Post by: Majestic7 on June 29, 2017, 04:20:17 am
Post by: Sindain on June 29, 2017, 01:22:22 pm
so I have an army garrisoned in my city and an army encamped outside of it, but when the army outside gets attacked by THREE armies, the army inside the city and the natural garrison don't come to aid??? What the heck is going on there? Is it because it's encamped? That's ridiculous.
Was the city under siege?
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on June 29, 2017, 07:47:20 pm
EDIT: and if it WAS under siege than the sieging army could come help but the army inside + garrison could not. Which is trash.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2017, 08:31:54 pm
I replayed the save multiple times, sometimes it was, sometimes it wasn't. The only time it worked was when I took both armies out of the city and even then the natural garrison would not help.One of your mods is fucking up the game then.
EDIT: and if it WAS under siege than the sieging army could come help but the army inside + garrison could not. Which is trash.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 29, 2017, 09:48:18 pm
On one hand, better baseline melee stats, regeneration, and a nice booze buff.
On the other hand, twice the armor and a bit more max ammo.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2017, 10:15:01 pm
I kinda treat most RoR units as just emergency troops anyway. There are only a few that are actually fearsome.
Like, for the Dwarfs, the only ones I actually take note of are the steam Irondrakes, the RoR Hammerers, and the super Gyrobomber. The rest are just... meh.
They're good for MP since they're cost effective there, but in campaign you usually end up with stronger regular infantry.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 29, 2017, 10:20:08 pm
Well, that's annoying.
But I mean the Bugman's Rangers you get if you have a Dwarf Brewery and a Ranger Outpost in the same region.
The Renowned Rangers are the axe throwers. Well, an axe thrower.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 29, 2017, 10:39:23 pm
As for replacing quarrelers. For me I wouldn't. Quarrelers, with their good armour and melee stats (for a ranged unit) make up an emergency backline, able to fight off skirmishers and other flankers. Rangers are faster but more lightly armoured, better for flanking the battleline and shooting into the rear of engaged enemy units. I would only use maybe 2 units of Bugman's Rangers, placing them along my line so they cover most of my units with their booze buff and their speed means they can respond to enemies faster.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 29, 2017, 10:52:19 pm
I've been using a Runelord/Master Engineer or Legendary Lord/Runesmith combo for my Lords and Heroes.
Front line is six Ironbreakers.
Six Quarrelers with Great Weapons for twang twang.
Two Grudge Throwers and two Cannons for arty.
2 slots that're either Hammerers for anti-flanking, Thunderers for same, or some other wildcard setup.
Tend to build a very boxy formation. Rather bad at countering flanking, though.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2017, 11:38:27 pm
I also almost never use hammerers. I know it's heresy but they really aren't that good... I'd rather have slayers than hammerers honestly.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 29, 2017, 11:43:03 pm
Seems fine to me. I'd get more Gyrocopters though. They're practically the best unit in their entire arsenal, especially brimstone guns.Hmm. They tend to just get shredded by ranged units when I use them. I try and use them like skirmishers. That the right way?
I also almost never use hammerers. I know it's heresy but they really aren't that good... I'd rather have slayers than hammerers honestly.
Also, a comparison of Bugman's Rangers, Quarrelers, and Quarrelers with Great Weapons.
Bugmans---Quarrelers---QGW.
Melee attack:21----------16-----------18
Melee defense:31--------28------------18
Weapon Strength:31-----28------------28
Leadership:----75--------66------------66
Armor:---------40--------80------------80
Also, this is without the Vanguard Proficiency buff to the Rangers, which earns +5 Melee Defense and +10% speed.
Post by: umiman on June 29, 2017, 11:47:46 pm
You normally just send them in the flank, preferably without them getting shot to pieces.Seems fine to me. I'd get more Gyrocopters though. They're practically the best unit in their entire arsenal, especially brimstone guns.Hmm. They tend to just get shredded by ranged units when I use them. I try and use them like skirmishers. That the right way?
I also almost never use hammerers. I know it's heresy but they really aren't that good... I'd rather have slayers than hammerers honestly.
They also shred large units. Even ethereal ones like hexwraiths for some reason. The anti-large bonus is strong.
But seriously, get Gyrocopters. You don't even have to micro them as they never have problems aiming at things due to them flying over everyone. They always end battles with the majority of the kills.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 30, 2017, 01:45:30 am
Huh. Mine just die, but okay. I'll give it a shot. Testing how Bugman's Rangers do in an army with Belegar, sent to cleanse that area up above the Vaults of Grobi. Figured it'd be fitting.You normally just send them in the flank, preferably without them getting shot to pieces.Seems fine to me. I'd get more Gyrocopters though. They're practically the best unit in their entire arsenal, especially brimstone guns.Hmm. They tend to just get shredded by ranged units when I use them. I try and use them like skirmishers. That the right way?
I also almost never use hammerers. I know it's heresy but they really aren't that good... I'd rather have slayers than hammerers honestly.
They also shred large units. Even ethereal ones like hexwraiths for some reason. The anti-large bonus is strong.
But seriously, get Gyrocopters. You don't even have to micro them as they never have problems aiming at things due to them flying over everyone. They always end battles with the majority of the kills.
Also, I had a big damn heroes moment.
Kholek Suneater, Dragon Ogre Shaggoth, had come to Nuln. With an army of Chosen, Gorebeast Chariots, Marauder Horsemen with axes, and three Hellcannons, he was more than fit to sunder the walls and cast down the lords inside.
All that stood was the garrison. Nuln was the last of the great empire cities, with a full garrison, and so sallied onto the field, to sunder the corrupted host before the walls.
They broke. The madness-granted strength of the Chosen hewed apart their front lines of Greatswords, and they fell, even as well over half of the blighted horde lay a corpse.
And then a rock smacked Kholek in the head so hard he dropped dead.
A rock with writing on it.
The Dwarves came over the hill. Longbeards, even some Miners had joined the host, as Rangers hid in the forest and shredded the unsuspecting horsemen. The umgi watched, watched as the remaining forces were shot apart before even hitting the front lines.
Only the Hellcannons proved to kill truly, sheer distance meaning that when the rest of the army broke, they loosed wrath until Dwarven legs could get in close and cut them apart.
Seriously, I flat out saved Nuln at the last turn possible and Kholek was so fucked up one direct Grudge Thrower shot killed him.
They died damn hard, though. Breaking Chosen with Greatswords is no mean feat. GJ Empire garrison. You didn't even have upgraded walls for a better garrison than a tier V city has, and you gave what'd likely be a pyrrhic victory to a full stack.
Post by: Teneb on June 30, 2017, 09:10:26 am
They are not skirmishers, they are suicidal monster killers. So you'll want to bring them out only when you know you'll be fighting against factions with monsters or a lot of cavalry. This means they are not optimal vs Empire or an elf-heavy Wood Elf comp, but for everything else...
They also make great siege weapon bodyguards.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 30, 2017, 10:13:43 pm
(Note: I found that I had to copy-paste the answer into the textbox as I couldn't type it in. My browser is Firefox.)
Success will give you another code to submit to your Total War Access dashboard page.
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 30, 2017, 10:24:50 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 01, 2017, 08:44:35 am
Post by: Teneb on July 01, 2017, 09:47:09 am
The reward this time is a text based game where you control an elf investigating a disturbance in the jungle. I've yet to find a way to survive against an unknown underground enemy.You can't. I tried every possible thing, as well as checked online. You just can't. If you get spotted, you can just go straight back the way you came or do a full circuit. However, if you find the doomwheel (it is the westernmost room), you no longer can exit the tunnels. To get the "you completed this" message, you need to go to the easternmost room in the tunnels (shortest path from the entrance is: north, east, north, north, east).
Post by: Persus13 on July 01, 2017, 12:35:20 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 03, 2017, 05:57:54 pm
Don't forget unless you mod it, RoR units don't benefit from your tech or lord bonuses so you can very easily end up with regular troops being stronger than them. So I would say I would grab quarrelers or standard rangers before I grabbed Bugman's. That being said, I would totally get the axe throwing rangers before either of those. Those things are so scary.Okay, I've been checking this, and it is not, I repeat not true.
I kinda treat most RoR units as just emergency troops anyway. There are only a few that are actually fearsome.
Like, for the Dwarfs, the only ones I actually take note of are the steam Irondrakes, the RoR Hammerers, and the super Gyrobomber. The rest are just... meh.
They're good for MP since they're cost effective there, but in campaign you usually end up with stronger regular infantry.
My Norgrimling's Ironbreakers and my normal Ironbreakers have the same armor boost from the armor-up, and I am only running the Trait Description mod for the purposes of "How'd THAT happen?"(On a related note, executing prisoners gets you bad traits. ???).
In addition, the Dragonback Slayers have 5 Armor from the Dorf infantry tech, despite being, well, Slayers.
So tech does, in fact, boost unique units.
Now that's done, a question: How play Chaos on the field? I'm thinking lots and lots of Chosen, basically just them, some Dragon Ogres for linebreaking, and a pair of Hellcannons as arty.
Post by: Hanslanda on July 03, 2017, 06:22:51 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 03, 2017, 06:30:07 pm
Hellcannons? Meh. I prefer at least two manticores, two shaggoths, and a plethora of chosen.Going by what I've seen of them, they're a damned nightmare of a weapon.
Only time I've seen a unit get less than 200 kills was when I managed a quick early flank with 4 units of Bugman's Rangers.
Post by: Teneb on July 03, 2017, 06:32:07 pm
Now that's done, a question: How play Chaos on the field? I'm thinking lots and lots of Chosen, basically just them, some Dragon Ogres for linebreaking, and a pair of Hellcannons as arty.Hellcannons are tied with the Doomdiver for best artillery in the game. So you want that. Excepting trolls, you usually just want one type of monster to break lines. Manticore is a good pick if your enemy is not good against air (see next paragraph). Chosen are your core, but in multiplayer you won't have enough points to pick them and anything else, so you want to use Warriors of Chaos too. Marauder horsemen you may want depending on who you go against, since they are your only ranged option. Skip foot marauders hard. Just do it. Warhounds are actually great, especially since they can outrun horse archers.
When it comes to heroes, you probably want a death or shadow Sorcerer. I feel that the Exalted Hero just isn't worth it, though. The default Chaos Lord is fine, while the Sorcerer Lord is just too vulnerable to lord sniping. Absolutely never put your lords on flying mounts if you are going against either someone who is missile heavy (Wood Elves, some Empire and Dwarf comps) or has aerial superiority (Vampires). As for LLs: Archaon is your safe pick. He can get a horse, he has magic so you can free up a slot, and has a bunch of items. Kholek can absolutely wreck lines, but he is very vulnerable to ranged and anti-large. Sigvald suffers against monster and cavalry because he's stuck on foot forever and will keep being thrown around, but he has high leadership, meaning he can keep low-leadership troops like trolls in the fight more reliably. Sarthorael (mp/custom battle only) is pretty beefy AND can cast magic. But he has two problems: 1) He's huge. He is absolutely huge and that means siege has a better chance at hitting him. 2) He is stuck with Lore of Metal. Unless you're running mods like Cataph's magic rebalance, this is a bad, bad thing.
Speaking of mods, thanks to testing and some searching on the internet I found out that the arbitrary limit before it crashes is around 70 mods. So have fun, folks. (NOT an absolute number, though. I can somehow run 80 of them sometimes)
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 03, 2017, 06:41:02 pm
Going singleplayer, so cost's not really a huge factor. Hm. Magic's going to be !!FUN!! given I've been playing Dorfs.Now that's done, a question: How play Chaos on the field? I'm thinking lots and lots of Chosen, basically just them, some Dragon Ogres for linebreaking, and a pair of Hellcannons as arty.Hellcannons are tied with the Doomdiver for best artillery in the game. So you want that. Excepting trolls, you usually just want one type of monster to break lines. Manticore is a good pick if your enemy is not good against air (see next paragraph). Chosen are your core, but in multiplayer you won't have enough points to pick them and anything else, so you want to use Warriors of Chaos too. Marauder horsemen you may want depending on who you go against, since they are your only ranged option. Skip foot marauders hard. Just do it. Warhounds are actually great, especially since they can outrun horse archers.
When it comes to heroes, you probably want a death or shadow Sorcerer. I feel that the Exalted Hero just isn't worth it, though. The default Chaos Lord is fine, while the Sorcerer Lord is just too vulnerable to lord sniping. Absolutely never put your lords on flying mounts if you are going against either someone who is missile heavy (Wood Elves, some Empire and Dwarf comps) or has aerial superiority (Vampires). As for LLs: Archaon is your safe pick. He can get a horse, he has magic so you can free up a slot, and has a bunch of items. Kholek can absolutely wreck lines, but he is very vulnerable to ranged and anti-large. Sigvald suffers against monster and cavalry because he's stuck on foot forever and will keep being thrown around, but he has high leadership, meaning he can keep low-leadership troops like trolls in the fight more reliably. Sarthorael (mp/custom battle only) is pretty beefy AND can cast magic. But he has two problems: 1) He's huge. He is absolutely huge and that means siege has a better chance at hitting him. 2) He is stuck with Lore of Metal. Unless you're running mods like Cataph's magic rebalance, this is a bad, bad thing.
Speaking of mods, thanks to testing and some searching on the internet I found out that the arbitrary limit before it crashes is around 70 mods. So have fun, folks. (NOT an absolute number, though. I can somehow run 80 of them sometimes)
Also, Mousillon's not supposed to take over Brettonia, right?
Cause they did. And a good chunk of the Empire.
Post by: Teneb on July 03, 2017, 06:48:14 pm
The Red Duck gets lucky sometimes. It is also likely that Bretonnia was softened up by Beastmen and Wood Elves.Going singleplayer, so cost's not really a huge factor. Hm. Magic's going to be !!FUN!! given I've been playing Dorfs.Now that's done, a question: How play Chaos on the field? I'm thinking lots and lots of Chosen, basically just them, some Dragon Ogres for linebreaking, and a pair of Hellcannons as arty.Hellcannons are tied with the Doomdiver for best artillery in the game. So you want that. Excepting trolls, you usually just want one type of monster to break lines. Manticore is a good pick if your enemy is not good against air (see next paragraph). Chosen are your core, but in multiplayer you won't have enough points to pick them and anything else, so you want to use Warriors of Chaos too. Marauder horsemen you may want depending on who you go against, since they are your only ranged option. Skip foot marauders hard. Just do it. Warhounds are actually great, especially since they can outrun horse archers.
When it comes to heroes, you probably want a death or shadow Sorcerer. I feel that the Exalted Hero just isn't worth it, though. The default Chaos Lord is fine, while the Sorcerer Lord is just too vulnerable to lord sniping. Absolutely never put your lords on flying mounts if you are going against either someone who is missile heavy (Wood Elves, some Empire and Dwarf comps) or has aerial superiority (Vampires). As for LLs: Archaon is your safe pick. He can get a horse, he has magic so you can free up a slot, and has a bunch of items. Kholek can absolutely wreck lines, but he is very vulnerable to ranged and anti-large. Sigvald suffers against monster and cavalry because he's stuck on foot forever and will keep being thrown around, but he has high leadership, meaning he can keep low-leadership troops like trolls in the fight more reliably. Sarthorael (mp/custom battle only) is pretty beefy AND can cast magic. But he has two problems: 1) He's huge. He is absolutely huge and that means siege has a better chance at hitting him. 2) He is stuck with Lore of Metal. Unless you're running mods like Cataph's magic rebalance, this is a bad, bad thing.
Speaking of mods, thanks to testing and some searching on the internet I found out that the arbitrary limit before it crashes is around 70 mods. So have fun, folks. (NOT an absolute number, though. I can somehow run 80 of them sometimes)
Also, Mousillon's not supposed to take over Brettonia, right?
Cause they did. And a good chunk of the Empire.
Post by: umiman on July 03, 2017, 06:57:26 pm
Turns out the not affected by tech and skills thing was a bug (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/50ofsd/regiments_of_renown_they_dont_gain_xp/d76lfky/) and if it's working then it's probably been fixed.Don't forget unless you mod it, RoR units don't benefit from your tech or lord bonuses so you can very easily end up with regular troops being stronger than them. So I would say I would grab quarrelers or standard rangers before I grabbed Bugman's. That being said, I would totally get the axe throwing rangers before either of those. Those things are so scary.Okay, I've been checking this, and it is not, I repeat not true.
I kinda treat most RoR units as just emergency troops anyway. There are only a few that are actually fearsome.
Like, for the Dwarfs, the only ones I actually take note of are the steam Irondrakes, the RoR Hammerers, and the super Gyrobomber. The rest are just... meh.
They're good for MP since they're cost effective there, but in campaign you usually end up with stronger regular infantry.
My Norgrimling's Ironbreakers and my normal Ironbreakers have the same armor boost from the armor-up, and I am only running the Trait Description mod for the purposes of "How'd THAT happen?"(On a related note, executing prisoners gets you bad traits. ???).
In addition, the Dragonback Slayers have 5 Armor from the Dorf infantry tech, despite being, well, Slayers.
So tech does, in fact, boost unique units.
Now that's done, a question: How play Chaos on the field? I'm thinking lots and lots of Chosen, basically just them, some Dragon Ogres for linebreaking, and a pair of Hellcannons as arty.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 04, 2017, 01:12:34 am
On one hand, Kislev's basically dead, my army's mostly Chosen and Chaos Knights, I've unlocked, if not researched, all the techs, and it's only time between me and Dragon Ogres.
On the other hand, it took 68 turns to Vassalize all of Norsca, Leon Leouncour took my allies like 20 turns to chase down(BTW a 19 stack of Marauders with a Death Sorcerer Lord beats 2 stacks of Brettonian infantry), and my secondary horde with Sigvald the Magnificent is only at T3 after so fucking long. Seriously young hordes without a free supply of easy Norscan meat are hard to raise. Doesn't even have Chaos Warriors yet. Worried that the Dwarves or Greenskins might come up and bury me in corpses by the time I've cut through the Empire.
Post by: umiman on July 04, 2017, 02:33:08 am
Unless you mod the game (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=743006229), the growth increasing blue line skill is more or less mandatory for Chaos lords. Otherwise it takes eons to build stuff.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 04, 2017, 04:41:54 am
Awakening the Norscan tribes I've found to be a bit iffy. It's neat to see the different factions there but they often end up going to war with each other for me, causing me to choose sides (where I might not back the winner) or drop both.
Post by: Teneb on July 04, 2017, 05:52:25 am
Sounds like the standard Chaos campaign. Takes forever. You've already completed the hard part (taking Norsca) so the rest is just slowly grinding down the old world.Eh, not really. You can do it in about two to four hours (based on loading times) on pretty much any difficulty, unmodded.
Sort-of-powergaming strategy for the WoC campaign:
This is all with a single stack. Lightning strike is also critical for this. Archaon kinda sucks for this because he has no monsters or artillery to instantly assault cities. Skip Norsca, it's a waste of time and it allows for the AI to build up their forces. I usually just force-march past Kraka Drak (it's not worth it taking them on, since they are hard bastards to crack) and go straight south near Erengrad (sp?). Raze a few targets and head into the Empire. Don't bother taking capitals unless they are undefended or you've already pretty much completed your army comp. Also, leave the Vampires alone, they'll take advantage of your rampage to go for Karl's throat. If they don't, make sure you do since it's part of your wincon.
Once the Empire main faction is down, go straight for Bretonnia. One weird thing I noticed is that if you are far enough away (and Bretonnia apparently is far enough away), Sarthorael bugs out and, instead of making a straight line to kill you, he just starts attacking whatever imperials are left. Defeating big bird is not necessary to win, so let him pretend he is important. Once the Bretonnia faction is down, just go southwards taking out the Bretonnian dukedoms, Tilea, Estalia and maybe orcs until you hit the short wincon. If you are going for the long victory, forget the humans and head for Karaz-a-Karak instead.
Mind you, I actually have fun powergaming in this game, so your mileage may vary.
Post by: Tack on July 04, 2017, 06:41:32 am
I also found a good inter-tribe war is a nice way to make them fluff up their stacks again if they start flagging.
Post by: umiman on July 04, 2017, 12:35:34 pm
Sounds like the standard Chaos campaign. Takes forever. You've already completed the hard part (taking Norsca) so the rest is just slowly grinding down the old world.Eh, not really.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on July 04, 2017, 12:46:54 pm
Post by: umiman on July 04, 2017, 12:51:19 pm
Okay, I deserved that.I love you bro.
Incidentally, I need to find a way to replay Skyrim but have all crafting disabled. I've always been unable to resist just grinding on the literal grindstone and making myself invincible. The game would probably be more fun if I couldn't do that.
Post by: Tack on July 04, 2017, 02:54:46 pm
When I actually got in a fight I was up against draugr facechoppers and fought like a newborn foal in daedric plate.
Post by: Antioch on July 04, 2017, 05:02:17 pm
The harsh,punitive and torturer trait
-1,-2 and -3 GLOBAL PUBLIC ORDER
AND BOTH MY LEGENDARY LORDS HAVE IT AT -3
Why? Because I clicked the replenishment option after most battles.
Seriously wtf, -6 global public order because I choose the most neutral option after battles.
Post by: Teneb on July 04, 2017, 05:10:55 pm
My number one annoyence with total war warhammer at the moment:I don't think I have ever got it, despite always going for replenishment. Odd. Yet I keep getting "Likes Greenskins" with pretty much everyone except Greenskins (especially as the Dwarfs) and other such nonsense.
The harsh,punitive and torturer trait
-1,-2 and -3 GLOBAL PUBLIC ORDER
AND BOTH MY LEGENDARY LORDS HAVE IT AT -3
Why? Because I clicked the replenishment option after most battles.
Seriously wtf, -6 global public order because I choose the most neutral option after battles.
Post by: Antioch on July 04, 2017, 05:48:24 pm
My number one annoyence with total war warhammer at the moment:I don't think I have ever got it, despite always going for replenishment. Odd. Yet I keep getting "Likes Greenskins" with pretty much everyone except Greenskins (especially as the Dwarfs) and other such nonsense.
The harsh,punitive and torturer trait
-1,-2 and -3 GLOBAL PUBLIC ORDER
AND BOTH MY LEGENDARY LORDS HAVE IT AT -3
Why? Because I clicked the replenishment option after most battles.
Seriously wtf, -6 global public order because I choose the most neutral option after battles.
I read it has a 10% chance to proc after each replenishment and requires 2 procs per level.
Its just serious bullshit. No other trait has that much impact on the game.
So If I went for freeing prisoners after each battle and got the kind trait instead the difference in my global public order would have been 12
12 global public order difference for choosing a different post battle option.....
Post by: umiman on July 04, 2017, 06:12:11 pm
1. Always release prisoners until your lords receive the kind trait. Then they'll never get unjust or harsh (theoretically).
2. Quicksave before every battle and replay it if you get the traits at the end.
3. Mod them out (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878586249&searchtext=trait).
4. Go into the creation kit and change the proc chance from them to infinity or something.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 04, 2017, 06:32:27 pm
There's four ways to fix the unjust / harsh thing:5: Play as Chaos, lol at the puny other races and their "negative traits".
1. Always release prisoners until your lords receive the kind trait. Then they'll never get unjust or harsh (theoretically).
2. Quicksave before every battle and replay it if you get the traits at the end.
3. Mod them out (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878586249&searchtext=trait).
4. Go into the creation kit and change the proc chance from them to infinity or something.
Also shove your Exalted Heroes into a box because good god in heaven mine cannot do ANYTHING.
Post by: umiman on July 04, 2017, 06:39:51 pm
The only reason to use them before was because they were the only way to get flying units as Chaos (other than your lord) but now you can recruit Manticores straight out and sorcerers get Manticore mounts too.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 04, 2017, 06:54:16 pm
Yeah they're pretty crap. Nobody uses them even in MP. Though to be fair, nobody uses Thanes, Captains, and so on either.No, I mean that even the free one I got has done nothing but fail and critfail my entire game.
The only reason to use them before was because they were the only way to get flying units as Chaos (other than your lord) but now you can recruit Manticores straight out and sorcerers get Manticore mounts too.
They were useless.
Post by: Teneb on July 04, 2017, 07:05:03 pm
If you are/were playing on easy/normal, probably the best use for them is parking them on a province and using their generic action to increase corruption. Without mods to remove the arbitrary public opinions bonuses, however, doing so is pretty much useless on hard or above.Yeah they're pretty crap. Nobody uses them even in MP. Though to be fair, nobody uses Thanes, Captains, and so on either.No, I mean that even the free one I got has done nothing but fail and critfail my entire game.
The only reason to use them before was because they were the only way to get flying units as Chaos (other than your lord) but now you can recruit Manticores straight out and sorcerers get Manticore mounts too.
They were useless.
But yeah, Exalted Heroes suck pretty much always.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 04, 2017, 09:24:01 pm
So, uh, just tried to start an army with Kholek Suneater, only for it to get ganked by Beastmen, a full damn stack, via Ambush.
And he lost, and lost again.
Only, uhh... 750 dead the first time, 300 dead the second.
Bloody hell Kholek, you lost, but you fucking ripped them apart just by yourself. Seriously, it was just him that did that.
I want this guy backing me up now. Bloody hell.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 05, 2017, 01:08:29 am
Post by: Antioch on July 05, 2017, 04:18:31 am
There's four ways to fix the unjust / harsh thing:
1. Always release prisoners until your lords receive the kind trait. Then they'll never get unjust or harsh (theoretically).
2. Quicksave before every battle and replay it if you get the traits at the end.
3. Mod them out (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=878586249&searchtext=trait).
4. Go into the creation kit and change the proc chance from them to infinity or something.
Can't I just mod the trait itself to be a local effect?
Because something like this should be a local effect in the first place.
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2017, 05:06:26 am
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2017, 05:42:53 am
Have they fixed Chaos replacement? Chaos corruption did nothing a few months ago because you needed to be in a friendly territory to get reinforcement bonuses from it. Practically meaning it only works in the areas controlled by friendly tribes and is otherwise completely useless.Encampment (I forget the actual name) stance causes replenishment. Awakened tribes just make it go faster.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 05, 2017, 09:21:42 am
Encampment (I forget the actual name) stance causes replenishment. Awakened tribes just make it go faster.
Yeah, but the tooltip for corruption claims it increases replenishment. This is false, as it only applies when encamped within friendly territory. If you are in an enemy territory with 100% corruption, your repleshnishment is the basic rate while encamped.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 05, 2017, 11:26:27 am
It'd flesh out the Chaos roster quite a lot.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2017, 11:41:16 am
You know, thinking about the extra faction bits from the preorder, with the Vortex of Magic being a primary thing for TW2, could the new units be Daemons?CA already said that the pre-order bonus will be a faction for the first game that is already in the Old World map. They also said it is not Kislev, nor is it a subfaction of one of the current ones. So either one of the Southern Realms or Norsca.
It'd flesh out the Chaos roster quite a lot.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 05, 2017, 11:42:46 am
Norscan roster's a subset of Chaos anyways, y'know?You know, thinking about the extra faction bits from the preorder, with the Vortex of Magic being a primary thing for TW2, could the new units be Daemons?CA already said that the pre-order bonus will be a faction for the first game that is already in the Old World map. They also said it is not Kislev, nor is it a subfaction of one of the current ones. So either one of the Southern Realms or Norsca.
It'd flesh out the Chaos roster quite a lot.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2017, 11:45:59 am
Yes, but it is certainly not Daemons or for the second game, which is what I wanted to clear up.Norscan roster's a subset of Chaos anyways, y'know?You know, thinking about the extra faction bits from the preorder, with the Vortex of Magic being a primary thing for TW2, could the new units be Daemons?CA already said that the pre-order bonus will be a faction for the first game that is already in the Old World map. They also said it is not Kislev, nor is it a subfaction of one of the current ones. So either one of the Southern Realms or Norsca.
It'd flesh out the Chaos roster quite a lot.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 05, 2017, 11:48:51 am
As the two games are merging, technically a change to the first is a change to the second [/nitpick]Yes, but it is certainly not Daemons or for the second game, which is what I wanted to clear up.Norscan roster's a subset of Chaos anyways, y'know?You know, thinking about the extra faction bits from the preorder, with the Vortex of Magic being a primary thing for TW2, could the new units be Daemons?CA already said that the pre-order bonus will be a faction for the first game that is already in the Old World map. They also said it is not Kislev, nor is it a subfaction of one of the current ones. So either one of the Southern Realms or Norsca.
It'd flesh out the Chaos roster quite a lot.
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2017, 01:29:35 pm
Other than that, they haven't talked about what periods they want to do so not much news.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2017, 06:56:54 pm
CA just announced they'll be doing a series focused on smaller events kinda like Fall of the Samurai and Napoleon: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/a-total-war-saga-announce-blog/There is a very blurry map on that page. People were very fast when it came to matching it to a location.
Other than that, they haven't talked about what periods they want to do so not much news.
(http://i.imgur.com/xs8C8jD.png)
(Click on the image to expand it)
Apparently, that's the coast near Dublin.
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2017, 07:23:30 pm
Like, what's their plan here? I can "kinda" see annual releases but currently we have Warhammer 2 coming out later this year... the as yet unannounced historical Total War coming out sometime next year, and Warhammer 3 coming out that year as well. So now we also have this minor series also coming out... most likely also next year.
It's way too much.
Post by: Neonivek on July 05, 2017, 07:34:09 pm
I still think the Total War: Warhammer... was meant to sell way more than it did, and likely the licensing fees and conditions might have... hurt them.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 05, 2017, 07:37:29 pm
I think they are sinking.It's literally the best selling Total War ever.
I still think the Total War: Warhammer... was meant to sell way more than it did, and likely the licensing fees and conditions might have... hurt them.
If that's a failure condition, I'll be astonished.
Post by: Tack on July 05, 2017, 07:39:52 pm
TW:W1 has basically bankrolled them for a while.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 05, 2017, 07:43:14 pm
Scratched an itch, as it were.
Plus I can destroy entire species for mildly annoying me.
That's always a plus in a game.
Post by: Neonivek on July 05, 2017, 07:49:07 pm
I think they are sinking.It's literally the best selling Total War ever.
I still think the Total War: Warhammer... was meant to sell way more than it did, and likely the licensing fees and conditions might have... hurt them.
If that's a failure condition, I'll be astonished.
Remember Tomb Raider, which sold over a million games... Was considered a commercial failure.
This is their best selling Total War by a small margin, I fully suspect they expected a lot more sales, like actually hitting that million mark.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 05, 2017, 07:50:45 pm
Look up two posts, they seem to disagree.I think they are sinking.It's literally the best selling Total War ever.
I still think the Total War: Warhammer... was meant to sell way more than it did, and likely the licensing fees and conditions might have... hurt them.
If that's a failure condition, I'll be astonished.
Remember Tomb Raider, which sold over a million games... Was considered a commercial failure.
This is their best selling Total War by a small margin, I fully suspect they expected a lot more sales, like actually hitting that million mark.
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2017, 08:39:39 pm
TWW is the undisputed top selling game in the entire franchise and outperformed many of Sega's other games last year. It even got special mention in the entire Sega Sammy Holdings annual statement. This includes ALL their holdings such as their resorts, arcades, pachinko, Sonic, etc. It was right up there with motherfucking Persona 5, the only other major game that got mentioned at all. This is ridiculous considering the sales performance of RTS games in this day and age where the only RTSes that ever get the spotlight are XCOM and Civ.I think they are sinking.It's literally the best selling Total War ever.
I still think the Total War: Warhammer... was meant to sell way more than it did, and likely the licensing fees and conditions might have... hurt them.
If that's a failure condition, I'll be astonished.
Remember Tomb Raider, which sold over a million games... Was considered a commercial failure.
This is their best selling Total War by a small margin, I fully suspect they expected a lot more sales, like actually hitting that million mark.
TWW sold spectacularly. CA have even stated that their DLC for this game has sold better than entire full games of the series. Please go spread your nonsense somewhere else.
In fact, I've mentioned these facts on here several times now. But because you are Neonivek, you seem to have experienced your usual cognitive dissonance and completely forgotten about this. It's okay. I forgive you. It's cruel to harp on inferiority after all, and I am but a generous god.
Post by: Neonivek on July 05, 2017, 08:55:05 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I don't know why I am drawing this ire.
Post by: Tack on July 05, 2017, 09:44:35 pm
Which is a strange lie to tell if you're actually haemorrhaging money.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 05, 2017, 09:45:47 pm
I don't know why I am drawing this ire.
Brah. As I have oft told you, you make claims with little or no support and then people come in, refute them, and then you make comparisons to (in this case) a situation that is dissimilar (in the sense that Tomb Raider was a BIGGER risk that took Square Enix over year to recoup it's $100m budget), people get mad, then you get confusedtm about why people are mad. It is not necessarily the nature of your claims that draws the ire, and what you suggest taken objectively is possible, but the manner in which you have suggested it.
To your credit, you backed things up with some numbers (accurately, I might add)--which is appreciated--but mainly, probably, you're starting to have a bit of a reputation for sudden, potentially unfounded contrarian suggestions.
Post by: Persus13 on July 05, 2017, 09:59:29 pm
So if CA did lose a lot of money on Warhammer 1, why do they have at least 5 different teams, two working on Warhammer content, and three on historical total war games? Why forge ahead with a planned trilogy if their first game failed.
Also, GW keeps licensing out the IP to tiny mobile games and random devs. Is there any reason why they would make CA pay a ridiculously large licensing fee like Neonivik's suggesting?
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2017, 10:13:34 pm
I mean, it probably won't just be Ireland but imagine if it was.
I think some kind of iron-age tribal Total War with Celtic influences would be fairly interesting. Instead of fighting over cities and towns, we fight over simple villages. The unit list will probably be ultra boring though. Or maybe they could really take it to the next level by doing it Shin Megami Tensei style and having all the gods, dieties, and heroes show up. Guys like Cu Chulainn, Dadga, and so on showing up.
I'd totally get that. But the "historical-only" fanboys would probably go rabid if that was announced haha.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2017, 10:15:29 pm
Putting Neonivek-isms aside for now, I was kinda thinking about what they would do Sagas about in Ireland.It might be the viking invasion of Britain. Would make sense for the area.
I mean, it probably won't just be Ireland but imagine if it was.
I think some kind of iron-age tribal Total War with Celtic influences would be fairly interesting. Instead of fighting over cities and towns, we fight over simple villages. The unit list will probably be ultra boring though. Or maybe they could really take it to the next level by doing it Shin Megami Tensei style and having all the gods, dieties, and heroes show up. Guys like Cu Chulainn, Dadga, and so on showing up.
I'd totally get that. But the "historical-only" fanboys would probably go rabid if that was announced haha.
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2017, 10:20:55 pm
Wasn't there a Medieval 2 campaign that did that already?Putting Neonivek-isms aside for now, I was kinda thinking about what they would do Sagas about in Ireland.It might be the viking invasion of Britain. Would make sense for the area.
I mean, it probably won't just be Ireland but imagine if it was.
I think some kind of iron-age tribal Total War with Celtic influences would be fairly interesting. Instead of fighting over cities and towns, we fight over simple villages. The unit list will probably be ultra boring though. Or maybe they could really take it to the next level by doing it Shin Megami Tensei style and having all the gods, dieties, and heroes show up. Guys like Cu Chulainn, Dadga, and so on showing up.
I'd totally get that. But the "historical-only" fanboys would probably go rabid if that was announced haha.
I actually wouldn't mind a more modernized version of that campaign. It was my favorite of them all in Medieval 2.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2017, 10:22:37 pm
Nope. That was a later period. It even had Richard the Lionheart returning from the crusades and William Wallace reenacting Braveheart.Wasn't there a Medieval 2 campaign that did that already?Putting Neonivek-isms aside for now, I was kinda thinking about what they would do Sagas about in Ireland.It might be the viking invasion of Britain. Would make sense for the area.
I mean, it probably won't just be Ireland but imagine if it was.
I think some kind of iron-age tribal Total War with Celtic influences would be fairly interesting. Instead of fighting over cities and towns, we fight over simple villages. The unit list will probably be ultra boring though. Or maybe they could really take it to the next level by doing it Shin Megami Tensei style and having all the gods, dieties, and heroes show up. Guys like Cu Chulainn, Dadga, and so on showing up.
I'd totally get that. But the "historical-only" fanboys would probably go rabid if that was announced haha.
The expansion for the first Medieval was that, I think. But that's old as fuck.
EDIT: I suppose it could also be either the saxon invasion of Britain... or the norman one. Not a whole lot else happened that can be done in a total war. War of the Roses might be nice, but it has to be a period they already did.
Post by: Neonivek on July 05, 2017, 10:27:07 pm
Quickly making a non-sequel. As well as a cheaper piecemeal series can work very well (Yeah it killed some games and worked well in others)
This isn't a recent development mind you, It was noticeable around Empire Total War.
Post by: Tack on July 05, 2017, 10:29:03 pm
Faction leader Bjern Ironside, coming up.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 06, 2017, 12:51:17 am
Post by: Sartain on July 06, 2017, 01:19:41 am
...where the only RTSes that ever get the spotlight are XCOM and Civ.
Both of those RTS games also stand out by virtue of actually being turnbased :P
As for the teaser, it would be quite interesting to see a remake of Medieval: Viking Invasion. Though I always hope for original content over yet another goddamn remake/remaster
Post by: umiman on July 06, 2017, 02:41:39 am
I guess that makes Total War the last surviving bestselling RTS series eh? What with Starcraft being kinda put to the wayside these days (unless you count that thing they're trying to do with remastered Starcraft 1). Is there even anything else left?
Clash of Clans? Wargame?
Post by: Tack on July 06, 2017, 03:33:36 am
Not even a crappy remaster either. Properly, from the ground up.
But yeah, that also wouldn't count, as wouldn't the XCOM games.
Post by: scriver on July 06, 2017, 06:59:29 am
I'd hazard a guess another one being about China.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 06, 2017, 08:04:35 am
Regarding RTS in general, there are some games like Steel Division around. I'd really like to see more competition in the strategy genre in general, both regarding Total War-likes and Paradox-likes, but I guess the genre is too niche to be economically feasible. And too complicated for small teams to break into
Although I think Distant Worlds was made by one guy and it is quite excellent game. I hope it gets sequel.
Post by: Persus13 on July 06, 2017, 08:15:57 am
My bet is on a Viking DLC for Attila instead of a brand new game.They explicitly said it would be a stand alone game. There's a different team working on an expansion DLC for Attila or Rome II. Also Attila already has a Viking DLC (http://store.steampowered.com/app/335020/Total_War_ATTILA__Viking_Forefathers_Culture_Pack/).
They also claimed it would be a spiritual successor to Rome II in the same way Attila was, so a stand alone Viking invasion game does sound likely.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 11, 2017, 08:22:04 am
Here is a High Elf gameplay video, showcasing the High Elf roster on a map called the "Mosquito Swamps". (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-8RQCwevAk)
Some interesting points from the video:
- High Elf spearman shields have had a do over, with some reliefs added.
- Swordmasters of Hoeth now have a "Deflect Arrow" ability like Slayers. Grants missile protection despite not having a shield (they cut the arrows out of the air).
- Frostheart Phoenix has a slow aura that I think also lowers unit stats.
- Flamespyre Phoenix has a fire bomb ability like the bombs dropped by Gyrocopters.
- A number of new spells were shown off. "Ruination of Cities" from Mazdamundi, "Tempest" from the High Elves that seems to be a spell more designed to target flying units. There was also one used on the Lothern Seaguard that I think increased their firerate.
Combining some stuff that was released over the past few weeks, there was some concept art of a Frostheart Phoenix (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/2e/ug9zrpdeslu1.jpg), as well as the next part of The Ritual puzzle (https://www.totalwar.com/ritual/) and hint image (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DEXx4EGWAAQ6kXn.jpg:large).
One more thing: Seems like the Dark Elves will start getting some reveals soon. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/4f/tsdm1dzeylpy.png)
Post by: lordcooper on July 11, 2017, 12:19:28 pm
Putting Neonivek-isms aside for now, I was kinda thinking about what they would do Sagas about in Ireland.
Total War: The Troubles?
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 11, 2017, 01:55:50 pm
Apparently, someone on another forum's bitching about it.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 13, 2017, 09:53:47 am
There's also a few wallpaers showing off Dark Elf units uploaded to Total War Access.
- Dark Elves vs Lizardmen. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/17/plde8j0uj2pl.png)
- Dark Elves vs High Elves b/w Hydra. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/wu/i938k9vll45f.png)
- Dark Elves vs High Elves Black Dragon vs Frostheart Phoenix. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/kh/5f0kk4z7cs8k.png)
- Malakith makes High Elves go boom. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/ur/snvh8g8aarxe.png)
- Witch Elf and Dreadlord (Maybe?) vs High Elves. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/jl/z33dieqrfbfi.png)
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2017, 10:16:13 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 13, 2017, 12:20:45 pm
Saw the trailer and wow, they cast great voices for both Malekith and Morathi. They sound pretty great. Also they gave him quite the Darth Vader vibe.
Indeed, I do like the voice they've got for Morathi. I don't know what I was expecting but I do like the voice for Malekith as well. I don't think he had a notable voice in Warhammer: Online.
I like the look of the various units as well. The marone trimming in the Black Dragon/Frostheart Phoenix is very nice. The only thing I'm a bit sad about is the Dark Elf Executioners have the skull helmets from their 8th edition update. (https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/600x620/99120212011_GarnethExecutionersNEW02.jpg) Previously they had helmets like the Spearmen with chainmail coifs (https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/0a/b1/1a/0ab11afe72021a40187da5183ed38010.jpg)
I see they've got the Cauldron of Blood in there as well. I think I can see a Cold One Chariot in the Lizardmen/Dark Elf picture as well, near the top right. There might be some Blackguard just under the dragon. I'm not sure what those cavalry are though. Dark Riders?
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2017, 12:34:16 pm
I'm not sure what those cavalry are though. Dark Riders?I think so, yes. Cold One Chariot was a given considering that its one of Malekith's mount options in the tabletop game.
Post by: Teneb on July 14, 2017, 07:13:25 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 14, 2017, 08:01:35 am
Also, apparently Creative Assembly will be showcasing the upcoming DLC for Warhammer: Total War (I assume the DLC available for pre-ordering Warhammer 2) on the 19th of July. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/196512/gameplay-for-the-new-tww1-dlc-on-the-19th-of-july/p1)
Post by: Teneb on July 14, 2017, 11:02:00 am
For those who can't or won't click on that:
Quote from: Roster
Caster Legendary Lord Malekith (Mounts: Cold One, Cold One Chariot, Seraphon (Black Dragon))
Caster Legendary Lord Morathi (Mounts: Sulephet (Dark Pegasus))
Missile Lord Dreadlord (Mounts: Dark Steed, Cold One, Dark Pegasus, Black Dragon)
Melee Lord Dreadlord (female) (Mounts: Dark Steed, Cold One, Dark Pegasus, Black Dragon)
Missile Hero Khainite Assassin (Mounts: none)
Melee Hero Death Hag (Mounts: Cauldron of Blood)
Caster Hero Sorceress (Mounts: Dark Steed, Dark Pegasus, Cold One)
Sword Infantry Bleakswords
Spear Infantry Dreadspears
Missile Infantry Darkshards
Missile Infantry Darkshards (Shields)
Dual Sword Infantry Black Ark Corsair
Hybrid Infantry Black Ark Corsair (Handbows)
Dual Sword Infantry Witch Elves
Greatsword Infantry Har Ganeth Executioners
Halberd Infantry Black Guard of Naggarond
Hybrid Infantry Shades
Hybrid Infantry Shades (Dual Swords)
Hybrid Infantry Shades (Great Weapons)
Melee Cavalry Dark Riders
Melee Cavalry Dark Riders (Shields)
Missile Cavalry Dark Riders (Repeater Crossbow)
Shock Cavalry Cold One Knights (Lances)
Melee Cavalry Cold One Dread Knights
Missile Chariot Cold One Chariot
Artillery Reaper Bolt Thrower
Flying Melee Infantry Harpies
Monster War Hydra
Flying Monster Black Dragon
Post by: Mech#4 on July 14, 2017, 12:10:33 pm
Apparently the Cold One Dread Knights have maces. I'm guessing that means they'll have armour piercing attacks. A bit odd to me that Shades can have great weapons but I don't know much about the Dark Elf army list.
Some more details are gathered here, in a Reddit post. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6n9k05/dark_elves_roster_reveal/)
As an army the Dark Elves will have an ability called "Murderous Prowess". When casualties increase (Yours or the enemies) to a point all of your units will gain a large buff to their combat stats for about a minute. The amount of casualties required will change depending on the size of the battle. Witch Elves have "Murderous Mastery" which gives them an even bigger buff from "Murderous Prowess".
The Cauldron of Blood seems like it has abilities that can give your units things like rampage and melee buffs.
Assassin has different poisons, including one that can get through city gates quickly.
Witch Elves have a poison that causes rampage. I think this means if you attack an enemy unit with it they'll force attack.
War Hydra breathes fire and has an improved version of regeneration.
Black Dragon has noxious breath with a poison debuff that lasts long enough to use the breath attack again before it's over.
Missile Dark Riders and Cold One Chariot both have repeater crossbows. Apparently repeater crossbows are armour piercing but the Dark Riders can't fire while moving and the Cold One Chariot can rampage.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 14, 2017, 05:48:28 pm
The Dark Elves have a nice selection of infantry units there. Sword Infantry aside Spear Infantry unlike the High Elves who just have spears. It'll be neat to see the Darkshard (Repeater Crossbows) in action, and them being able to have shields is a nice advantage over the High Elf archers, probably to compensate for shorter range.Wut. How do you poison a city gate?
Apparently the Cold One Dread Knights have maces. I'm guessing that means they'll have armour piercing attacks. A bit odd to me that Shades can have great weapons but I don't know much about the Dark Elf army list.
Some more details are gathered here, in a Reddit post. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6n9k05/dark_elves_roster_reveal/)
As an army the Dark Elves will have an ability called "Murderous Prowess". When casualties increase (Yours or the enemies) to a point all of your units will gain a large buff to their combat stats for about a minute. The amount of casualties required will change depending on the size of the battle. Witch Elves have "Murderous Mastery" which gives them an even bigger buff from "Murderous Prowess".
The Cauldron of Blood seems like it has abilities that can give your units things like rampage and melee buffs.
Assassin has different poisons, including one that can get through city gates quickly.
Witch Elves have a poison that causes rampage. I think this means if you attack an enemy unit with it they'll force attack.
War Hydra breathes fire and has an improved version of regeneration.
Black Dragon has noxious breath with a poison debuff that lasts long enough to use the breath attack again before it's over.
Missile Dark Riders and Cold One Chariot both have repeater crossbows. Apparently repeater crossbows are armour piercing but the Dark Riders can't fire while moving and the Cold One Chariot can rampage.
Post by: Teneb on July 14, 2017, 06:41:46 pm
Wut. How do you poison a city gate?Probably acid-coated weapons.
Post by: umiman on July 14, 2017, 07:30:06 pm
IRL that wouldn't work at all. An acid coated blade is not the correct delivery mechanism for a chemical that can burn through a fortified position. Either the blade would melt or it'll still take you eons to burn through the wood / metal due to the very poor surface contact area.Wut. How do you poison a city gate?Probably acid-coated weapons.
In fantasy world, is best idea.
Post by: Thexor on July 14, 2017, 07:50:39 pm
Saw the trailer and wow, they cast great voices for both Malekith and Morathi. They sound pretty great. Also they gave him quite the Darth Vader vibe.
Sadly I'm not the one to spot this, but... he's a dude whose entire body was burnt, and who was then encased in a full-body suit of black armour to keep him alive despite being roasted alive. Also, in the End Times he turns out to be the Chosen One. And, if you want to stretch the analogy, his mental state is highly influenced by his mother.
"Darth Vader vibe" is putting it lightly!
Post by: Tack on July 14, 2017, 09:30:04 pm
The Army Roster (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/dark-elf-army-roster/)Heh. I wasn't.
For those who can't or won't click on that:
Cheers Teneb
Post by: Teneb on July 17, 2017, 01:38:58 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/AQKETxr.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/YtxE4ME.png)
I think the thing in the background is a dead arachnarok.
Post by: Tack on July 17, 2017, 01:44:39 pm
Frankly, even more stumped now
Post by: umiman on July 17, 2017, 01:51:23 pm
Apparently this was after listening to fan feedback about them. Neat.
Post by: Teneb on July 17, 2017, 01:53:10 pm
So CA have decided not to include mini campaigns with their Warhammer DLCs now, instead giving 2 more legendary lords, more start locations, etc.While I actually like the minicampaigns, I'm also ok with this.
Apparently this was after listening to fan feedback about them. Neat.
Post by: Tack on July 17, 2017, 08:44:58 pm
Whether or not they all were I have no idea as I never actually played WHFB.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 17, 2017, 08:55:08 pm
I was a fan of minicampaigns which were translations of WHFB campaigns of note.Bullying Chaos with Grimgor when?
Whether or not they all were I have no idea as I never actually played WHFB.
Seriously Storm of Chaos was basically Chaos getting utterly wrecked in every way on the tabletop.
Post by: Tack on July 17, 2017, 09:06:17 pm
I mean more like the first two vampire invasions of Altdorf and the death of Vlad
Post by: umiman on July 18, 2017, 02:43:38 pm
Many, many many good things about it.
1. It's actually quite cheap, only CAD11 for me.
2. Holy shit it's extensive. Massive unit roster, awesome lords, unique campaign mechanics, etc.
3. Looks like it's on the scale of Bretonnia's release, except only two LLs. Awesome LLs though. Really good ones.
4. Fookin' mammoths. Werewolves, Cyclopian lizardmen.
Here's the trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbrbDa9EBR0
Here's the unit roster and other info: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6o1aga/norsca_roster_reveal/
------
I think all of us basically were expecting this especially given all the hints CA gave even weeks before. But I didn't expect the scale of it. I'm really excited for it actually. I hope they keep Surtha Ek's um... chariot love though. As a nice reminder of his cancer.
Also frigging Wulfrik AND Throgg?! Goddamn. How do I choose who to play. They're both frigging amazing.
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2017, 02:46:44 pm
While the forums were down, Norsca race pack got a trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbrbDa9EBR0&t=0s)
Also their army roster (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/norsca-army-roster/), steam store page (http://store.steampowered.com/app/455040/Total_War_WARHAMMER__Norsca/) and the info on the website (https://www.totalwar.com/Norsca/). All copied and pasted below because I'm sometimes a nice person.
Spoiler: army roster (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: steam page (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: the official site (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on July 18, 2017, 02:50:19 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2017, 02:53:17 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 18, 2017, 09:53:43 pm
It doesn't look like they're giving Wulfrik the ability to teleport anywhere on the map with his ship. Oh well. Can't have everything.
His ship is featured as a battle ability that deals damage and knockback, I'm assuming like the Tridant of Manaan.
The Fimir are really unexpected. The Norscan will also have the ability to settle coastal towns as well as faction capitals. They will get quests to hunt monsters and can dedicate ruined settlements to one of the four Chaos Gods (in the guise of a wolf, snake, eagle and crow) gaining bonuses the more they glorify one of the gods while earning the ire of the other three.
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2017, 09:57:15 pm
(in the guise of a wolf, snake, eagle and crow)In case someone is uncertain which is which, they are, in order: Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle. It's kind of weird because Tzeentch is associated with ravens and thus corvids, but crows eat carrion and the eagle doesn't fit Nurgle at all.
Post by: Tack on July 19, 2017, 01:41:23 am
I think we are overlooking the greatest tragedy: Surtha Ek is not playable. He remains beyond our comprehension.I laughed.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 19, 2017, 01:30:54 pm
But it's not DLing. Is it just announced, and it needs to come out, or is it out and it's buggy?
Post by: umiman on July 19, 2017, 01:31:44 pm
So Norsca's showing up as a DLC in my inventory.It's not out yet.
But it's not DLing. Is it just announced, and it needs to come out, or is it out and it's buggy?
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2017, 01:37:47 pm
Yeah, it comes out on 10/August/2017. So it won't download 'til then.So Norsca's showing up as a DLC in my inventory.It's not out yet.
But it's not DLing. Is it just announced, and it needs to come out, or is it out and it's buggy?
Post by: umiman on July 19, 2017, 01:42:40 pm
Also apparently the Norsca DLC will also give all the other races a new unit as FLC.
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2017, 01:47:01 pm
The Old Friend has basically been confirmed as Krell.Source? Because I remember CA saying it wouldn't be a lord.
Don't get me wrong, I'll love it if it is Krell, long missing, found at last.
EDIT: Found what is probably your source. Where is Krell? Here he is. (https://steamdb.info/app/364360/dlc/)
(http://i.imgur.com/2WIQAJg.png)
Post by: umiman on July 19, 2017, 01:48:27 pm
https://steamdb.info/app/364360/dlc/The Old Friend has basically been confirmed as Krell.Source? Because I remember CA saying it wouldn't be a lord.
Don't get me wrong, I'll love it if it is Krell, long missing, found at last.
Someone accidentally loaded it into the database.
Anyway, they're strongly hinting that they'll be giving the Beastmen the Jabbawocky. Good times. I think they're also saying Empire and a bunch of other guys are getting stuff too, but there's definitely Jabbawocky vibes. Also they mentioned Wood Elves specifically too.
----
I am kinda intrigued that CA have so many community managers and devs prowling around Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, and so on. They're really easy to get ahold of and they're quite a lot of them. I would imagine this is one of the reasons why their community is doing so well as they engage and change things based on the feedback they get on a daily basis.
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2017, 02:00:14 pm
Also, apparently CA heard the cries of the fandom and is making Surtha Ek start with a chariot, despite not being playable, as a nod the the memes. I'm guessing he'll be like Toddbringer or the Red Duke.
Post by: umiman on July 19, 2017, 02:03:23 pm
Oh boy, now I am hyped for Krell.New players will never understand the hell that was autoresolving through every single Norsca battle because of Surtha Ek's Lore of Chariots.
Also, apparently CA heard the cries of the fandom and is making Surtha Ek start with a chariot, despite not being playable, as a nod the the memes. I'm guessing he'll be like Toddbringer or the Red Duke.
Edit: I frigging love this: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6o1ldb/norsca_so_now_the_big_question_is_who_is_everyone/dkdvhus/
Quote
We should have destroyed Norsca, every man woman and child, many years ago!
shouting
Enough! Dietershafen is lost, and our northern allies have failed us. Where was the last report of his whereabouts?
My Witch Hunters tell me that his forces have moved to the west, we must expect an attack on Marienburg!
This is nonsense, no attack is coming - Emil von Korden controls the Wasteland. He's not attacking, he's making allies! At this very moment he courts Throgg, the Troll King! The trolls will rise up against us and Troll Country will be lost once more!
Ridiculous! Kislev won't stand for it! Our forces have sole military access to their lands. I believe the attack will come from the Chaos Wastes themselves - he intends to travel across the World's Edge Mountains, and into Ostermark - Sylvania will revolt, and sweep across from the east
Thats wild speculation!
He will come not from the north, nor the east - our traders in the north report that he has forged an alliance with the Fimir of Albion. He intends to circumnavigate the Empire and sail his army-
To the Badlands perhaps!
He would lose half his army to attrition alone! The other half would desert!
We must defend Blackfire Pass!
Do you expect the orcs to welcome him when he arrives?
I suppose he will bring with him, an army of Chariots!
Elector Counts, I dare say that would be quite a feat, even for the great Surtha Ek.
For the non-ultra Total War gay fanboys like myself, this is a revision of the Rome 2 trailer (https://youtu.be/i5v6hPr6L7U) that I'm actually still kinda salty about BECAUSE THERE WAS NO SUCH THING WHEN ROME 2 LAUNCHED. WTF CA.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 20, 2017, 12:24:26 pm
For those of you following things, this is the "Old Friend" content that has been mentioned for the past few months.
Post by: Tack on July 20, 2017, 12:37:05 pm
Ropable even.
Post by: umiman on July 20, 2017, 01:11:54 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 20, 2017, 04:34:39 pm
Post by: Thexor on July 20, 2017, 07:04:42 pm
Post by: Tack on July 20, 2017, 09:41:22 pm
Post by: umiman on July 20, 2017, 10:12:37 pm
Would love them to evenly divvy regiments of renown around.It would certainly help with balance.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 20, 2017, 10:26:53 pm
Or Regiment of Renown Grail Knights.
Or a Regiment of Renown War Mammoth.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 21, 2017, 08:41:17 am
Post by: Persus13 on July 21, 2017, 09:12:48 am
Post by: Tack on July 21, 2017, 09:45:54 am
What's the prize?
Post by: Persus13 on July 21, 2017, 11:04:43 am
I'm at work and can't YouTube :/Its just a 12 second pan of some tunnels. I just really like the art style.
What's the prize?
Post by: Antioch on July 21, 2017, 01:21:43 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on July 21, 2017, 01:45:25 pm
is it me or are Regiments of reknown just a lame way to recruit anywhere and get units you don't have the buildings for?
they're helpful when you need units fast to defend backdoors or need some extra oomph to get past a large enemy host.
Post by: thvaz on July 21, 2017, 10:28:49 pm
is it me or are Regiments of reknown just a lame way to recruit anywhere and get units you don't have the buildings for?
It is somewhat worse than that, because if you got the gold you (and the A.I.) can create full armies in one turn.
Post by: umiman on July 21, 2017, 11:00:41 pm
Yeah, that's why there are mods to restrict them, put them on timers, etc.is it me or are Regiments of reknown just a lame way to recruit anywhere and get units you don't have the buildings for?
It is somewhat worse than that, because if you got the gold you (and the A.I.) can create full armies in one turn.
They're kinda dumb otherwise. And the AI can spam them endlessly. It's especially infuriating against the Dwarfs.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 21, 2017, 11:38:36 pm
Post by: umiman on July 22, 2017, 12:00:59 am
I mean RoR aren't exactly the best things, a unit of Black Orcs will roll right over Dwarf Warriors, Dragonfire Pass or no.Uh huh. What about those RoR hammerers and ironbreakers? Your black orcs gonna destroy those? What if those units just came back endlessly. Neverending. Every single turn you kill them, they just respawn no big deal in another stack. Pffft? Elite units? They're the very definition of expendable.
Post by: Tack on July 22, 2017, 02:10:15 am
Post by: Antioch on July 22, 2017, 06:51:43 am
They're basically mercenaries from the other games.
Those were pretty limited and usually of poor quality.
Post by: scriver on July 22, 2017, 09:40:11 am
I've only been playing the Empire start so far though. Gonna try the other factions to see if they're less fun sucking.
Post by: thvaz on July 22, 2017, 09:47:32 am
So I got this and have been playing some recently. I almost immediately regret buying it, it suffers from all the flaws of recent Total War games that really gets at the fun for me. Primarily how the AI only ever sits in its cities with full stacks which also forced me to use full stacks which means I can't afford more than a single army (and another army would be useless anyway until I can afford to 20/20 stack it). Which also means I have to completely leave undefended my tiny one province realm undefended whenever I want to attack anyone.
I've only been playing the Empire start so far though. Gonna try the other factions to see if they're less fun sucking.
The garrisons are pretty competent after some upgrades. You only have to worry about the minor settlements in vulnerable positions until you get walls for them/ after that, you will have some turns to attack the sieging enemies.
The most fun I had was with the empire; they have the most diverse troop roster and the most diverse set of enemies. I played with Beastmen (diverse range of enemies) , Chaos (you will mostly fight norscans, maybe will get better with the new DLC), Dwarves (boring, you will mostly only fight Orcs) and Bretonnia ( quite fun)
Post by: Antioch on July 22, 2017, 09:58:33 am
They feel the most Warhammer like to me.
It takes some time to get used to their unique mechanics, but after that they are awesome.
Post by: thvaz on July 22, 2017, 10:05:30 am
Ha, you missed the best campaign: Vampire Counts.
They feel the most Warhammer like to me.
It takes some time to get used to their unique mechanics, but after that they are awesome.
They are next in my list.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2017, 12:15:11 am
Plus their archers are actually pretty badass, and the economy gets insane later on.
No good cavalry, though.
Post by: lordcooper on July 23, 2017, 12:04:51 pm
Dwarves (boring)
I recommend Dwarves
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 23, 2017, 12:50:31 pm
Dwarves are boring if you are bored by trying to juggle FUCKING MANNFRED, the Border Princes barely tolerating you, and constant Orc attacks.Dwarves (boring)I recommend Dwarves
Post by: Teneb on July 23, 2017, 12:56:01 pm
You also forgot the occasional times when daddy Vlad decides you need to die.Dwarves are boring if you are bored by trying to juggle FUCKING MANNFRED, the Border Princes barely tolerating you, and constant Orc attacks.Dwarves (boring)I recommend Dwarves
Post by: Majestic7 on July 23, 2017, 03:04:28 pm
Are there any campaign AI mods that handle stuff like this?
Speaking of Manfred, I should try a new campaign with VC now that Vlad and Isabella are their own faction. I'd just be stuck trying to confederate with Manny forever, though, being the completionist I am. How hard is that to achieve?
Post by: Teneb on July 23, 2017, 03:10:16 pm
Speaking of Manfred, I should try a new campaign with VC now that Vlad and Isabella are their own faction. I'd just be stuck trying to confederate with Manny forever, though, being the completionist I am. How hard is that to achieve?The easiest way is to vassalize him. You may also want to grab the Red Duck so you catch 'em all.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 23, 2017, 05:15:30 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 23, 2017, 05:33:09 pm
You mean kick the snot out of him, then vassalize instead of taking the last settlement? Can you confederate with a vassal? I thought it wasn't possible.You can. I am unsure, however, if the vampire factions have confederation enabled by default in vanilla. I know it used the be that they couldn't. No idea now.
Post by: Persus13 on July 23, 2017, 05:57:39 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 24, 2017, 01:09:33 am
Post by: umiman on July 24, 2017, 02:23:00 pm
I'm sure I've confederated with Mousillon as the Vampire Counts but I feel like I was unable to confederate with the Vampire Counts as the Von Carsteins. It's been a while but I believe the option was there, the A.I. was just unwilling to accept it even with barely any forces and compensation.There's a strange issue with the diplomacy AI in Warhammer where if you get into any sort of alliance with them (defensive or full), they consider your units to be part of theirs and as such... won't confederate with you due to the "equivalent strength".
You really shouldn't be getting into alliances with anyone anyway. They serve almost no purpose in this game. The AI has no clue what alliances do, will break them constantly, will backstab you (I actually like this part), won't honor military actions, etc.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 24, 2017, 02:44:09 pm
Really? I've had them be pretty reliable, myself, but I do play Dwarves.I'm sure I've confederated with Mousillon as the Vampire Counts but I feel like I was unable to confederate with the Vampire Counts as the Von Carsteins. It's been a while but I believe the option was there, the A.I. was just unwilling to accept it even with barely any forces and compensation.There's a strange issue with the diplomacy AI in Warhammer where if you get into any sort of alliance with them (defensive or full), they consider your units to be part of theirs and as such... won't confederate with you due to the "equivalent strength".
You really shouldn't be getting into alliances with anyone anyway. They serve almost no purpose in this game. The AI has no clue what alliances do, will break them constantly, will backstab you (I actually like this part), won't honor military actions, etc.
Also winning a big victory's a good time to try a confed, the AI seems to notice "Holy shit, that's badass, let me join the badasses!"
Post by: Thexor on July 24, 2017, 05:32:49 pm
Really? I've had them be pretty reliable, myself, but I do play Dwarves.I'm sure I've confederated with Mousillon as the Vampire Counts but I feel like I was unable to confederate with the Vampire Counts as the Von Carsteins. It's been a while but I believe the option was there, the A.I. was just unwilling to accept it even with barely any forces and compensation.There's a strange issue with the diplomacy AI in Warhammer where if you get into any sort of alliance with them (defensive or full), they consider your units to be part of theirs and as such... won't confederate with you due to the "equivalent strength".
You really shouldn't be getting into alliances with anyone anyway. They serve almost no purpose in this game. The AI has no clue what alliances do, will break them constantly, will backstab you (I actually like this part), won't honor military actions, etc.
Also winning a big victory's a good time to try a confed, the AI seems to notice "Holy shit, that's badass, let me join the badasses!"
Oddly, I've seen the opposite; the AI seems most willing to confederate after they've been smashed in the face, or otherwise feel nervous about their situation. My Empire campaign had me confederate Stirland after they overextended into Ostermark and were threatened by Averland, then confederate Middenland after they lost most of their army conquering Brass Keep and were about to lose their capital to Hochland's 20-stack. Both times, my confederation partner had a weaker army than another faction they were at war with.
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 24, 2017, 06:57:19 pm
No, after you win a big victory, that's a good time. When they win a big victory, not so much.Really? I've had them be pretty reliable, myself, but I do play Dwarves.I'm sure I've confederated with Mousillon as the Vampire Counts but I feel like I was unable to confederate with the Vampire Counts as the Von Carsteins. It's been a while but I believe the option was there, the A.I. was just unwilling to accept it even with barely any forces and compensation.There's a strange issue with the diplomacy AI in Warhammer where if you get into any sort of alliance with them (defensive or full), they consider your units to be part of theirs and as such... won't confederate with you due to the "equivalent strength".
You really shouldn't be getting into alliances with anyone anyway. They serve almost no purpose in this game. The AI has no clue what alliances do, will break them constantly, will backstab you (I actually like this part), won't honor military actions, etc.
Also winning a big victory's a good time to try a confed, the AI seems to notice "Holy shit, that's badass, let me join the badasses!"
Oddly, I've seen the opposite; the AI seems most willing to confederate after they've been smashed in the face, or otherwise feel nervous about their situation. My Empire campaign had me confederate Stirland after they overextended into Ostermark and were threatened by Averland, then confederate Middenland after they lost most of their army conquering Brass Keep and were about to lose their capital to Hochland's 20-stack. Both times, my confederation partner had a weaker army than another faction they were at war with.
Post by: umiman on July 24, 2017, 09:30:53 pm
To those who don't know, it's a kind of game where gambling is inherently built into the game itself, where you are... hmm... HEAVILY incentivized to P2W. In fact, it's so RNG and lootboxy that I can see why Valve themselves think they're being kinda tame. Because compared to gacha games, holy shit, they're tame as hell.
The reason I bring this up is simply to be thankful that while our PC games and Total War is infested with DLC these days... at least they're not gacha-game bad.
I'll use this specific game to illustrate why:
1. This game is about using RNG lootbox dropped characters to fight PVE battles. Free money is limited to low-tier characters while premium money gets you the good shit.
2. The game also dripfeeds you premium money so you can do rolls every once in awhile.
3. The drop rate for a 5-star character (the popular ones) is 1%.
4. This does not include the drop rate for your specific character that you want, which depends entirely on how many other characters of that rank are in the pool (aka, the longer you wait, the worse it gets).
5. What this means is that the game has an abysmally small chance of giving you shit you want and even if you pay for the rolls, the chance is still incredibly miniscule.
6. It costs US$15 for a set of 10 rolls.
So what ends up happening is you get a whole bunch of whales who pay $8500 or $7000 to get a single character. For a mobile game.
But you might think, meh, whales are whales. They can pay shittonnes of money so let them. But at the same time, you look at the Youtube lets plays of people playing and the online discussions and everything is just rife with people throwing shittonnes of money at the game. Hundreds of dollars each. Hundreds! People putting aside $50 a month to play this mobile game that honestly isn't even that good and is completely designed to be addictive in every single way. I could sorta understand it in MMOs, as there's shittonnes of content to update and stuff, but here... there's fucking nothing. It's just some 2D art with some good voice acting and nothing else.
It's nuts. Shit is crazy in mobile gaming land. How can people justify this? It's like watching drug addicts constantly throwing away money at completely no purpose. The people behind these gacha-games must laugh at their insane profit margins. Why would anyone want to make games for any other platform when you can make pseudo-gambling sites that don't even give you real money back like real-gambling sites and rake in millions.
----
I only hope this kind of insanity does not enter our PC gaming world, even if Valve, 2K, and Square Enix really want it to be.
Can you imagine if you had to pay $3800 to have a 99% chance of being able to play Vlad von Carstein in Total War? (Also you need to throw in another 5x that amount as you need to roll him 5x to merge them and power him up to max level).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ArchAIngel on July 24, 2017, 10:19:03 pm
I started playing a gacha-type Android game recently called Fate Grand Order.As someone who also started playing it recently, you need to do the quests, getting Saint Quartz is dead easy ingame.
To those who don't know, it's a kind of game where gambling is inherently built into the game itself, where you are... hmm... HEAVILY incentivized to P2W. In fact, it's so RNG and lootboxy that I can see why Valve themselves think they're being kinda tame. Because compared to gacha games, holy shit, they're tame as hell.
The reason I bring this up is simply to be thankful that while our PC games and Total War is infested with DLC these days... at least they're not gacha-game bad.
I'll use this specific game to illustrate why:
1. This game is about using RNG lootbox dropped characters to fight PVE battles. Free money is limited to low-tier characters while premium money gets you the good shit.
2. The game also dripfeeds you premium money so you can do rolls every once in awhile.
3. The drop rate for a 5-star character (the popular ones) is 1%.
4. This does not include the drop rate for your specific character that you want, which depends entirely on how many other characters of that rank are in the pool (aka, the longer you wait, the worse it gets).
5. What this means is that the game has an abysmally small chance of giving you shit you want and even if you pay for the rolls, the chance is still incredibly miniscule.
6. It costs US$15 for a set of 10 rolls.
So what ends up happening is you get a whole bunch of whales who pay $8500 or $7000 to get a single character. For a mobile game.
But you might think, meh, whales are whales. They can pay shittonnes of money so let them. But at the same time, you look at the Youtube lets plays of people playing and the online discussions and everything is just rife with people throwing shittonnes of money at the game. Hundreds of dollars each. Hundreds! People putting aside $50 a month to play this mobile game that honestly isn't even that good and is completely designed to be addictive in every single way. I could sorta understand it in MMOs, as there's shittonnes of content to update and stuff, but here... there's fucking nothing. It's just some 2D art with some good voice acting and nothing else.
It's nuts. Shit is crazy in mobile gaming land. How can people justify this? It's like watching drug addicts constantly throwing away money at completely no purpose. The people behind these gacha-games must laugh at their insane profit margins. Why would anyone want to make games for any other platform when you can make pseudo-gambling sites that don't even give you real money back like real-gambling sites and rake in millions.
----
I only hope this kind of insanity does not enter our PC gaming world, even if Valve, 2K, and Square Enix really want it to be.
Can you imagine if you had to pay $3800 to have a 99% chance of being able to play Vlad von Carstein in Total War? (Also you need to throw in another 5x that amount as you need to roll him 5x to merge them and power him up to max level).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
No RL money required, just progressing.
Though I'm not sure this is realllyyyy relevant.
Post by: Shadowgandor on July 25, 2017, 01:03:21 am
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2017, 06:37:59 am
I also have to take back my previous statements about the game, they where too early judgements and I'm having lots of more fun now. Still annoying that there's no way to lure the enemy out of their cities and that that is where they hang out 99.9% of the time, though.
Post by: Tack on July 25, 2017, 06:57:08 am
Post by: Sindain on July 25, 2017, 07:09:54 am
But yeah, the turtling tendencies of the AI can get a bit tedious.
Post by: Majestic7 on July 25, 2017, 07:11:28 am
Post by: Tack on July 25, 2017, 07:34:44 am
I do enjoy when they think they have an overwhelming force though.
My Kharaz a Karak garrison was I think at gold exp at some point.
Post by: scriver on July 25, 2017, 07:55:24 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 25, 2017, 11:11:41 am
Also: A short video showcasing the Dark Elf Dreadlord. (https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/889492913520087040)
Post by: thvaz on July 26, 2017, 11:13:45 am
Post by: umiman on July 26, 2017, 02:11:14 pm
In today's stream they showed the norscan units and played some battles. It looks like they accidentally revealed Regiments of Renown for the Beastman, so it is probably other DLC races will also get them.That's pretty nice. Should balance things out quite a bit, especially for MP.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 27, 2017, 07:57:17 am
I do like the design for the Hydra, being more based off a snake than a dragon. I like its rattle-tail.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 28, 2017, 09:07:42 am
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qO8OtI0FQMg)
It covers things like the totem system and appeasing the 4 Chaos Gods as well as what bonues they give, the build tree for Norsca, research tree and the monster hunting mechanic as well as an interesting mechanic that makes confederation with Norscan tribes easier once you beat their faction leader.
It also shows the skill trees for Throgg and the Norscan Chieftains, who can actually put points towards one of the four gods, gaining bonuses and abilities for doing so. End bonuses listed below.
Beserker for Hound.
Regeneration and Poison Attacks for Crow.
Immune to Psychology, passive that gives Leadership bonus, melee defense and leadership debuff to enemy for Serpent.
Fireball spell and Magic Attacks for Eagle.
Some interesting points is the reward for favour with the Hound/Khorne is blurred out (I believe it says something about regiments of renown) as well as a unit I'm unsure of next to the Frost-Wyrm in the build tree (forth building tree from the left).
Post by: Tack on July 28, 2017, 01:44:25 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 02, 2017, 08:32:09 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yz7qXNJglxI
Norsca
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on August 02, 2017, 08:38:23 am
I wonder if anything at all will come for the base factions.
Post by: Tack on August 02, 2017, 08:50:15 am
I guess just be glad there isn't a Brettonia paid expansion.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 02, 2017, 09:27:35 am
The various differences the units have can be read about on the F.A.Q here. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/birthday-regiments-faq/)
The Mirror Guard look really nice and the Swords of the Apocalypse have a map-wide charge and speed buff. The Dragon Ogre unit has a single-cast Chain Lightning that charges during melee while the Cygor has a root unit ability.
Post by: lordcooper on August 02, 2017, 03:04:48 pm
Cygor has a root unit ability.
Oh dear.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 03, 2017, 03:53:19 am
Cygor has a root unit ability.
Oh dear.
Hm, I don't think it'll be that much of a problem. Beastmen don't have access to the Net of Amyntok and I assume the Cygors ability will require it to be quite close. It'll help the Beastmen deal with enemy cavalry to a small degree.
Some other things that have become apparent are; during the Norscan stream there was eight visible Regiments of Renown available (possibly more since I think the window could be scrolled). One of these is a unit of four Hellcannons that from what I've seen said is the 3rd tier reward for the Hound favour (Khorne reward for Norscan totems). The other looks like a Chaos Dragon/Frost Wyrm so I'm going to assume that the monsters you hunt during the Monster Hunt quests can get added within the Regiment of Renown list to recruit.
Anything else... we got the skill array images for Wulfrik the Wanderer (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/ri/ywa5kvslfxky.png) and Throgg the Troll King. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/jq/1kn5dwkx3lww.png)
There was also a short story called "The Forked Tongue" about a skink uploaded to the Total War Access. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197464/the-forked-tongue-total-war-warhammer-ii-e-book/p1) I haven't read it myself.
Post by: umiman on August 03, 2017, 01:31:22 pm
It looks frigging good. So damn good. I see what they mean by removing the mini campaigns and putting more stuff into the main one.
Post by: lordcooper on August 03, 2017, 04:58:10 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 03, 2017, 05:27:35 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO3c1Rd-nNE
Post by: thvaz on August 03, 2017, 05:52:47 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on August 04, 2017, 12:25:21 am
Post by: umiman on August 04, 2017, 01:53:32 am
Empire and Chaos need revamp bad. The chances are there won't be any coming. The logic is sound; many players have already played those factions and buy new stuff to play new stuff. Can't help but fear the old leaders and factions will become ever blander in comparison when WH2 comes out.Not sure about Empire but Chaos is definitely getting revamped in game 3. The entire game will be about them after all.
The Chaos we have right now is a stopgap version that they threw together for the DLC. Originally Chaos wasn't even going to be playable (though they'd be in the game, just not playable). It's why they're so wonky right now.
Post by: Teneb on August 08, 2017, 08:55:58 am
This goes into detail on the lords (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6s9kiw/legendary_lord_rework_compilation/).
Further, Regiments of Renown now have cooldowns when killed or disbanded.
Spoiler: Finally, this was leaked. Beware! Heresy is inside! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on August 08, 2017, 10:11:41 am
Grimgor gets Frenzy at the end of his new tree and Azhag gains regeneration. Thorgrim has a number of skill grudges that give increases to leadership and melee attack when facing certain factions while Ungrim has boosts to Deathblow or can have it activate at 50% health remaining (instead of 20%).
The change to Chaos infighting is nice. It was a real pain recruiting a new lord at the end of your turn and suffering attrition because you couldn't move either army apart. Warriors of Chaos also get decreases to upkeep when encamped and increases to replenishment from the research you pay Favour for.
Post by: Teneb on August 08, 2017, 11:01:53 am
Post by: Antioch on August 08, 2017, 12:08:13 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on August 08, 2017, 01:47:57 pm
Post by: umiman on August 08, 2017, 02:13:21 pm
Post by: Teneb on August 09, 2017, 08:22:50 am
Highlights that we haven't discussed here yet:
Chaos:
-Vassals of Chaos now provide their master with a small amount of income
-Reworked post-battle occupation options – Chaos can now “Raze” or “Loot & Raze”, providing growth and replenishment or Chaos favour respectively
And uh... that's it. We saw the rest already.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 09, 2017, 10:37:09 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some of this was mentioned in a video Creative Assembly uploaded a day or 2 ago such as the increase to bonus vs large for the Dwarf cannon and bolt thrower.
There was also a post done by one CA_Duck; "Also not my work, but direct damage spells have been rebalanced according to certain damage templates, particularly affecting Final Transmutation that was dealing half the damage it should be." The rest of his post was things that are now included in the blog post.
Post by: Tack on August 09, 2017, 10:44:43 am
Post by: Teneb on August 09, 2017, 10:48:08 am
Post by: Majestic7 on August 09, 2017, 11:41:03 am
Post by: umiman on August 09, 2017, 02:34:03 pm
They only mentioned they're reworking magic, but unsure if it's coming this patch or in game 2. I honestly doubt they'll change too much.
I'm not as particularly worried about it now as I was at launch. They've made the newer magic lores like Shadows and Life WAY WAY WAY better than the original ones. And mods fix all the original ones no biggie.
----
Besides, I think it's futile to balance for all unit sizes and expecting it to be the same. It can't. It's like expecting the tactics for a 10 man skirmish to be the same as a 2000 man battle. It's exactly the same in all the other Total War games too, especially in MP. If you saw your opponent was forcing a small or tiny unit setting, you knew to bring only elite units as everyone only had a tiny handful of men anyway.
Hell, I had some amusing games in Fall of the Samurai where the enemy forced tiny unit counts so I brought a gatling gun. Sure, I only get 1 gun instead of 4, but I killed their whole army of like... 100 men with it. Or you run into the guys in the same scenario, but they brought a cannon. Like... why would you do this? There's so few units. Your cannon won't even hit anything. Or an army of just cavalry, in which case it's amazing as the unit sizes are so small so infantry can't even properly form defensive lines against them. You can't really balance this, unless you ban these "super" units from the game.
It's the same here. You just have to change your tactics as unit sizes change.
--------
Incidentally, they added a Chinese localization. Interesting move. The Chinese translation mod was one of the top mods (I think..., I remember seeing it every once in awhile) in the Steam Workshop. I guess they noticed a lot of Chinese players want to play this game. Localization is always a good thing anyway.
Also apparently there was some kind of drama in the past over how Chinese players were misled that there would be a Chinese version?
Post by: Neonivek on August 09, 2017, 05:21:32 pm
Quote
I think it's futile to balance for all unit sizes and expecting it to be the same
There are definitely ways it could have been done better to say the least.
Then again the game has a lot of... odd quirks.
Alas I am strapped for cash so I'll be getting Warhammer Total War 2 much later... probably during some sort of imaginary amazing sale that won't happen.
Post by: umiman on August 09, 2017, 05:40:47 pm
Yeah, no doubt they probably could. But I doubt it was anywhere near a priority. I think at one point the devs even said the game is balanced around large unit sizes. Might be my imagination though.QuoteI think it's futile to balance for all unit sizes and expecting it to be the same
There are definitely ways it could have been done better to say the least.
Then again the game has a lot of... odd quirks.
Alas I am strapped for cash so I'll be getting Warhammer Total War 2 much later... probably during some sort of imaginary amazing sale that won't happen.
I think it'll probably go on sale within half a year though. TWW 1 went on sale on the Humble Bundle for $12 that one time, half a year after release or something like that. Took a lot longer for the DLC to go on sale.
Post by: Majestic7 on August 10, 2017, 12:28:40 am
However, my impression is that monsters and magic are very much better with small units sizes. It would explain why I've been unimpressed by monsters and spells. Problem is not HP but the amount of models affected by the attacks. If a fireball hits five guys, that is a bigger deal with small unit size than with a huge unit size. Same thing with a monster killing three guys with its stomp. Basically, larger unit size should widen the area of effect for spells and monsters. Artillery get more guns with larger size so that requires no tweaking in the same way.
Post by: Tack on August 10, 2017, 12:33:43 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 10, 2017, 01:19:20 am
They have been changing the way spells work over the last few patches. Detonation mechanics, unit weights and so forth. The problems I've seen people mention with some spells, vortexes in particular, was some of them tossed enemies about a lot and units in the air didn't take damage. Wind of Death is an increadible spell vs masses of infantry, it tears through dwarfs. Curse of the Bad Moon and the Flaming Skull do less, partly because of their random movement, but they also have debuffs they apply to units they hit.
I do think there will always be a disparity between spells. Gaze of Mork and other multi-shot missiles are best used against large, single targets rather than units but even then, because the missiles spiral, not all of them will always hit. Firing them from an angle is better as well. I think a mage being on a flying mount, casting missiles downwards, would be best since all the missiles would hit the ground, rather than wiffing over the heads of a unit. Though, spells like fireball are also good on a flat plane because the fireball travels through small units until it either hits the ground or a large target.
Post by: Tack on August 10, 2017, 01:23:22 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 10, 2017, 05:19:09 am
Post by: umiman on August 10, 2017, 08:31:13 am
Post by: Tack on August 10, 2017, 09:04:42 am
/me is calling in sick to work today
Post by: Mech#4 on August 10, 2017, 10:06:23 am
Post by: Teneb on August 10, 2017, 10:08:30 am
Post by: umiman on August 10, 2017, 03:07:32 pm
I'm fairly certain my entire army exists to support the mammoths, while they win the game and the others are merely distractions and supplemental HP.
Also Skinwolves and ice trolls are also redonkulous.
Skinwolves only cost 900 but I could use them to almost 1v1 Demigryph halberds, which are 1500 I think. They would fight them until the Demigryphs were almost dead. Totally worth it trade. And their movespeed is so fast, they're basically light cav with heavy cav damage. So even when they rout, they can come back so frigging fast.
I don't know what it is about the aura but it seems like ice trolls barely take any damage.
So far I found Fimir to be... decent. Prefer trolls in almost all instances though. Not really sure what the advantages Fimir have but I guess we'll see in time. Armoured? Since the only armoured trolls are Chaos (which are really, really brutal). The Fimir have done alright in my battles though, but nothing outstanding.
Strong faction. Very, very strong faction. The only thing they don't have is artillery. Their ranged units ranges are low, but they hurt a lot so I think it's a good tradeoff. Their regular infantry also isn't the greatest but.... you could just use Fimir and Trolls instead.
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My favorite part about the whole faction, they still do the whole "NORSCA!!!!" shout when you move them around.
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Edit: They changed Surtha Ek's voice!!!! He doesn't say "beyond your comprehension" any more!!!
Post by: Mech#4 on August 10, 2017, 09:42:35 pm
I like that Wulfrik has Seafang when he's sailing about, and the extra little details here and there in Norsca are nice. I wonder if they've added anything else new, I think there's new castle towers on a mountain near Artois. Surtha Ek and his chaosed out chariot, I wonder if we'll see mods that give him a unique skill tree and abilities?
On the Chinese tranlation thing; from comments I've seen it appears like there was a translation team working on it, though it was cancelled before Warhammer 1 was released and something about the localization team not being paid for their work. I think the mod was what they had been working on but because there's now an official Chinese translation it was removed.
Post by: umiman on August 10, 2017, 11:04:52 pm
I think only Ungrim's is worse. Azhag's used to be terrible too but they buffed his start.
I also noticed that he cannot 1v1 even an Empire Lord. Do not attempt to do so early game before you get his skills and some gear. He will lose really badly. He reminds me of Legion Commander (https://youtu.be/I68-_02Rhrs?t=31s). He "honorably duels" enemies that don't stand a chance against him and runs away from any actual threats.
Post by: Tack on August 11, 2017, 02:42:01 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2017, 02:49:33 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 11, 2017, 02:59:05 am
Also my current Empire go is surprisingly easy.
Wiped out the VC before Kislev even fell, have Franz running around cracking Orc skulls with a Runefang, Gelt and Volkmar are up north in max-garrison settlements weathering the Chaos hordes...
Honestly this is going much easier than most of my Dorf goes.
Had to smack Todbringer into the dust to get Middenheim, though. Which kinda sucks. I wanted to see if he had any new gimmicks.
Franz can get +3 Unit Rank in his army and +9 Leadership/+15 Armor to his Greatswords, and Unbreakable/+10% Weapon Strength for himself.
Gelt seems to be built around Steam Tanks, Luminarks, and dakka, going by his new skill tree.
Post by: Tack on August 11, 2017, 08:39:50 am
Is there blood for blood pack lads?
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2017, 09:37:10 am
Post by: Teneb on August 11, 2017, 09:45:10 am
There's a few others changes people are mentioning that weren't included in patch notes, one of these is apparently the Empire smithy building now able to get to tier 3 in a village and not just a capital. I checked and it does go from level 2 to 3 settlement but I can't remember if it was like that beforehand.CA doesn't include all their changes in patch notes. I've seen some modders speculate that it's so they can cover up their bugs and bugfixes.
Cutscenes like that aren't affected. I would like if they redid some of them, the beastman introduction in particular with the helmets on spikes looks silly.Khazrak is really proud of his vintage helm collection.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 11, 2017, 10:01:40 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 11, 2017, 10:17:02 am
Post by: Tack on August 11, 2017, 10:21:41 am
I don't need to see grey matter but it does kill the mood.
If he wants to be PC he could have it flash-boiling off the sword, or if it's rime, freezing and snowing off.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 11, 2017, 11:04:12 am
Still, is having a bit of red on your sword when you tug it free of a monster a big issue ratings-wise?
I don't need to see grey matter but it does kill the mood.
Sadly it is. Normal blood is considered a hard cut off point for low ratings, gratuitious blood/gore basically guarantees a very high rating. Non-catoony violence is similar.
The American game rating system has any blood at all make you Teen rating by default, substantial amounts of blood or any gore makes you Mature, zealous amounts of them makes you Adults Only. As is TW:WH has an ESRB rating of Teen, blood being part of it by default would probably have pushed it to mature, because the system is dumb.
The pegi rating for TW:WH is 16, the Blood dlc by itself is an 18, for another example of the rating systems being dumb.
Post by: umiman on August 11, 2017, 02:03:08 pm
1. Norsca units just ooze with personality. There's so many little things that make you love commanding their troops. I've mentioned some before, but another one is I think they're the only faction in game right now where the units do marching chants when you're zoomed out. So it sounds really muffled but so awesome. It really sounds like an army on the march in the distance.
2. I actually lost my capital. Twice. And I didn't give a shit. Norsca is almost a horde faction, and their settlements are so terrible you really don't care about them. They don't even have walls and holy crap their garrisons are so terrible. I lost my capital the first time to another Norscan faction who I couldn't intercept... so I went "fuck it, he wants my capital? Fine! Take it! But I'm coming to kill you next". The second time was Bretonnia. Those fuckers came out of nowhere to blitz me while I was raiding Middenland.
3. At first I thought it sucks that they only have one generic lord choice. Then I saw the Lord's skill tree. Holy jesus christ that shit is crazy. You guys should check it out.
4. They don't get anything from uniting a province, so feel free to just raze settlements you don't want in Norsca.
5. They have a serious issue with money, in that it's so fleeting. They get tens of thousands of favour from sacking settlements, but they also spend it so fast. It's really challenging to manage that economy, way more so than Chaos.
6. The generic wizard for Norsca is hilarious. He's straight up just a feeble old man. His combat stats are so trash unlike other wizards in the game, who can at least fight a bit in a pinch.
7. They will never, ever have problems with public order. I swear they're the happiest race in the game.
---
I doubt Norsca will be much of a threat in the game compared to how they used to be. They will probably spend more time fighting each other than anyone else now, as that's what they did in my game. There's way more factions of them up there. Not to mention they actually need money now, compared to before.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 11, 2017, 02:34:19 pm
Post by: Tack on August 11, 2017, 03:12:01 pm
Either way.
One thing about the Norscans which is BLOWING my MIND is that iron doesn't give unit bonuses.
I don't even know where to go with this. There's not even caves! Unit production villages are where you make them!
Post by: umiman on August 11, 2017, 03:58:44 pm
I'm currently having issues with Norscan public order but I think that's either the Hard difficulty, a lack of wizard huts or a lack of war.I'm playing on V. Hard and just have a level 2 wizard hut in every province. Because I'm at war with basically everyone other than Norsca, I have amazing public order. It's not a particularly huge deal for Norsca to be at war with everyone. Barely anyone can even reach you. Also went straight for the raiding tech tree and midway through it is two +1 public order techs.
-----------
Edit: So some shitstain upstart dev at CA has issued out a patch without informing anyone that automatically disables all mods every single time you restart the game. Meaning right now you'll have to manually enable all your mods every single time you want to play until they fix this.
Grace from CA said that since it's Friday, this won't be fixed until next week.
-----------
If you want to play with mods for now, don't use the "Select all" button in the launcher. It's really buggy and will likely crash your game. You need to manually click each mod to activate them.
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 11, 2017, 05:59:36 pm
I started as Throgg and steamrolled everybody without ever having a single battle where I really felt I needed to step in to save the day. Fought maybe four battles manually, just to look at the units. Never lost a lord, never felt threatened.
Everything succumbed to the merciless auto-resolve. Maybe weighing is badly skewed or something. I don't know.
Still, a rather nice DLC. Lots of personality, and a well-implemented raiding economy.
Post by: Teneb on August 11, 2017, 06:32:41 pm
Everything succumbed to the merciless auto-resolve. Maybe weighing is badly skewed or something. I don't know.Auto-resolve weights are ridiculous. If you want to have fun, start a game as Empire and field a full stack of Any Lord + 19 Free Company Militia and only ever auto-resolve because that composition is pretty bad in regular battles. As long as your are not outnumbered, it's almost always a win if you auto-resolve.
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 11, 2017, 08:13:12 pm
2 Chaos hordes mostly broken by one army and a garrison.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 12, 2017, 06:35:15 am
Post by: Neonivek on August 12, 2017, 06:44:41 am
Everything succumbed to the merciless auto-resolve. Maybe weighing is badly skewed or something. I don't know.Auto-resolve weights are ridiculous. If you want to have fun, start a game as Empire and field a full stack of Any Lord + 19 Free Company Militia and only ever auto-resolve because that composition is pretty bad in regular battles. As long as your are not outnumbered, it's almost always a win if you auto-resolve.
They can be good to abuse if you are fighting a particularly tough battle... but that is weighted in your favor.
In Medieval 2 Total War, for example, Citadel (Essentially THREE wall Castles) weren't counted for battle weights, or at least barely mattered for the calculation, even though it is a very good way to lose a lot of units.
On the opposite spectrum you could also get Cannon Towers which were SO overwhelmingly powerful that you could win exclusively through those. So it was pretty much never in your favor to auto those (unless the enemy has them)
This game... is the same deal.
The Undead are probably the weirdest in that some of their garbage units seem to weigh the scales more than their actual provable strength, like zombies or skeletons.
While I "THINK" the group that is weighted wonky in a "weak" way is probably the Dwarves...
(Then again what a coincidence that those are polar opposites: Dwarves have amazing first tier units, and Undead have DREADFUL first tier units)
Post by: Il Palazzo on August 12, 2017, 07:16:21 am
The Undead are probably the weirdest in that some of their garbage units seem to weigh the scales more than their actual provable strength, like zombies or skeletons.I had the opposite experience with the undead. I fielded mostly skeleton spearmen armies, which were treated poorly by the auto-resolve, especially against chaos, but managed to win most tactical battles.
While I "THINK" the group that is weighted wonky in a "weak" way is probably the Dwarves...
(Then again what a coincidence that those are polar opposites: Dwarves have amazing first tier units, and Undead have DREADFUL first tier units)
Post by: Tack on August 12, 2017, 09:06:03 am
Post by: Teneb on August 12, 2017, 09:07:35 am
As far as I can tell, in auto-resolve ranged gets priority over melee, and armour over the lack of it. Which means that stuff like slayers and giants get murdered by the AR.The Undead are probably the weirdest in that some of their garbage units seem to weigh the scales more than their actual provable strength, like zombies or skeletons.I had the opposite experience with the undead. I fielded mostly skeleton spearmen armies, which were treated poorly by the auto-resolve, especially against chaos, but managed to win most tactical battles.
While I "THINK" the group that is weighted wonky in a "weak" way is probably the Dwarves...
(Then again what a coincidence that those are polar opposites: Dwarves have amazing first tier units, and Undead have DREADFUL first tier units)
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 12, 2017, 11:16:52 am
but can you follow it up with the killing blow?Eh, I'll let them build up, I love siege battles, and that was a T2 big town with a T1 wall on it. The rest of my settlements in the way? T4 or T5 big towns, with T3 walls.
Post by: Tack on August 12, 2017, 11:35:30 am
I bloody well hope so
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 12, 2017, 11:39:48 am
Do norscan settlement maps even spawn the corpse-walls?...corpse-walls?
I bloody well hope so
You have my attention.
Post by: Teneb on August 14, 2017, 11:33:34 am
Spoiler: Beep Beep (click to show/hide)
A few things to note: I am surprised, and pleased, that Sartosa, the Necrarchs and Strygos are included. I am confused why Araby is full of Bretonnians and the odd Estalian.
Post by: Neonivek on August 14, 2017, 11:43:56 am
Post by: Tack on August 14, 2017, 11:55:31 am
Also cute, the ruins. The longest "?" would actually be exactly long enough to fit something like "flan bestilins"
Crazy.
Post by: thvaz on August 14, 2017, 12:34:25 pm
Post by: timferius on August 14, 2017, 12:48:46 pm
Post by: umiman on August 14, 2017, 12:51:35 pm
Did araby get shunted sideways a lil?looks like they're in the middle of a crusade.
Also cute, the ruins. The longest "?" would actually be exactly long enough to fit something like "flan bestilins"
Crazy.
They won't be in the vanilla game though, or Tomb Kings. DLC races.
Post by: Teneb on August 14, 2017, 01:01:31 pm
It's also likely that some of the ruins are actually ruins, like the ones in the Land of the Dead.
Post by: umiman on August 14, 2017, 01:16:23 pm
The subreddit is speculating it's because of the Chinese localization. It would be interesting if the entire reason for the mixed score was because of the lack of it alongside the controversy. I always thought it was because of the DLC whoring.
Incidentally, they updated the broken launcher today (rolled it back) but apparently they broke it even more. Ironically, it appears to have broke the game for Chinese players.
Post by: thvaz on August 14, 2017, 04:25:23 pm
In other news, Total Warhammer's Steam review score has finally gone from mixed to mostly positive. I don't think it's ever left mixed ever since launch. That's quite a massive jump.
The subreddit is speculating it's because of the Chinese localization. It would be interesting if the entire reason for the mixed score was because of the lack of it alongside the controversy. I always thought it was because of the DLC whoring.
Incidentally, they updated the broken launcher today (rolled it back) but apparently they broke it even more. Ironically, it appears to have broke the game for Chinese players.
If there is such a demand in China for the game I guess we could expect even Cathay in the future
Post by: Teneb on August 14, 2017, 04:31:32 pm
Spoiler: Squeak (click to show/hide)
Post by: Thexor on August 14, 2017, 07:44:56 pm
The VCs in the Lands of the Dead and Bretonnia in Araby are hopefully just placeholders. It's not like TW:WH1 didn't have placeholder or incomplete factions, from the limited Bretonnian roster to the impassable gap that was Athel Loren to the generic VC faction that Vlad would later displace.
Post by: Teneb on August 14, 2017, 08:11:23 pm
Sadly, that post is likely inaccurate, since the legend for all the other races was alphabetical after the two playable races. Unless, of course, the devs didn't apply alphabetization until after the names were replaced with question marks.Yeah, quite likely. I think the two playable ones (top two) are right though. Mors was kind of a surprise to me.
The VCs in the Lands of the Dead and Bretonnia in Araby are hopefully just placeholders. It's not like TW:WH1 didn't have placeholder or incomplete factions, from the limited Bretonnian roster to the impassable gap that was Athel Loren to the generic VC faction that Vlad would later displace.
Post by: thvaz on August 14, 2017, 08:18:47 pm
Post by: umiman on August 14, 2017, 09:38:01 pm
Just finishing my Norsca campaign and I think it was the most fun I had playing the game. It was kind of easy, but it was very fun. Even garrison battles were fun.I think CA really knocked it out of the park with this one. This faction is just a ton of fun. The units are powerful and memorable, but also versatile. The start is good. They have so many things they can do in the campaign with so many different battles to take on alongside fun resource management.
Not to mention they actually have a good end-game. I think they're the only faction in any Total War game where I actually like the end-game and don't look for a way to mod it better somehow (whether it's by making Chaos stronger for vanilla races, or making the realm split less stupid in Shogun, etc.)
It's a good sign if this is how things are to be for the upcoming races.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 14, 2017, 10:15:26 pm
Sadly, that post is likely inaccurate, since the legend for all the other races was alphabetical after the two playable races. Unless, of course, the devs didn't apply alphabetization until after the names were replaced with question marks.Yeah, quite likely. I think the two playable ones (top two) are right though. Mors was kind of a surprise to me.
The VCs in the Lands of the Dead and Bretonnia in Araby are hopefully just placeholders. It's not like TW:WH1 didn't have placeholder or incomplete factions, from the limited Bretonnian roster to the impassable gap that was Athel Loren to the generic VC faction that Vlad would later displace.
Clan Mors would work for Queek Headtaker, the red colour would also match his red armour.
I would assume that the Bretonnian and Vampire Counts factions will get shoved aside if/when Araby and Tomb Kings get a release.
The start in Naggaroth for the Dark Elves looks interesting. They're surrounded by 3 Beastmen factions and 2 Norscan tribes. The size of the map is very nice too, I like how we get the whole of the west coast for Lustria and Naggaroth.
Post by: Teneb on August 14, 2017, 10:31:57 pm
I'm hoping the Chaos Nomads won't be Norse forever. They're more like evil mongols than evil vikings.Sadly, that post is likely inaccurate, since the legend for all the other races was alphabetical after the two playable races. Unless, of course, the devs didn't apply alphabetization until after the names were replaced with question marks.Yeah, quite likely. I think the two playable ones (top two) are right though. Mors was kind of a surprise to me.
The VCs in the Lands of the Dead and Bretonnia in Araby are hopefully just placeholders. It's not like TW:WH1 didn't have placeholder or incomplete factions, from the limited Bretonnian roster to the impassable gap that was Athel Loren to the generic VC faction that Vlad would later displace.
Clan Mors would work for Queek Headtaker, the red colour would also match his red armour.
I would assume that the Bretonnian and Vampire Counts factions will get shoved aside if/when Araby and Tomb Kings get a release.
The start in Naggaroth for the Dark Elves looks interesting. They're surrounded by 3 Beastmen factions and 2 Norscan tribes. The size of the map is very nice too, I like how we get the whole of the west coast for Lustria and Naggaroth.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 14, 2017, 10:47:53 pm
Looking at Ulthuan, it seems like there's only four of the gates present. The Dragon Gate, I believe it's located between the Unicorn and Phoenix gates, doesn't seem to have a valley for it.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 14, 2017, 11:44:04 pm
In other news, Total Warhammer's Steam review score has finally gone from mixed to mostly positive. I don't think it's ever left mixed ever since launch. That's quite a massive jump.
The subreddit is speculating it's because of the Chinese localization. It would be interesting if the entire reason for the mixed score was because of the lack of it alongside the controversy. I always thought it was because of the DLC whoring.
Incidentally, they updated the broken launcher today (rolled it back) but apparently they broke it even more. Ironically, it appears to have broke the game for Chinese players.
Yeah there's actually a way to check other language reviews.. It was one of the games Chinese players review bombed simply because they wanted it in Chinese. Bit disgusting I do say.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 15, 2017, 12:09:12 am
I'm glad that the option exists now for these people. Apparently the russian audience is having some issues with their translation as the company working on it is doing a rather unprofessional job of things.
Post by: umiman on August 15, 2017, 03:04:58 am
Post by: Puzzlemaker on August 15, 2017, 08:12:01 am
Post by: Tack on August 15, 2017, 08:55:52 am
I have no idea how they fought.
Post by: Teneb on August 15, 2017, 09:21:57 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Won't be long now, I suppose.
Post by: timferius on August 15, 2017, 10:15:46 am
Post by: thvaz on August 16, 2017, 09:16:00 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8EQ1KNkpmw
Sounds like heresy to me.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 16, 2017, 09:48:06 am
There's also this which I'm not sure how it ties into other things. A neat interactive piece. (https://www.totalwar.com/searchtheskies/)
As for the trailer, I like that the Warpfire Thrower has two manning it . Lord Skrolk and Queek Headtaker as the lords. The engineer pumping the Doomwheel along, and the rats running in the wheels are great. The Hell Pit Abomination looks incredible. There was also a Dark Elf sorceress and the Dark Elf harpies.
Yay! Skaven!
Post by: Persus13 on August 16, 2017, 09:50:11 am
Ninjad, guess that was the Doomwheel.
Post by: umiman on August 16, 2017, 10:02:40 am
Post by: scriver on August 16, 2017, 10:17:37 am
I must I was very much in love with the gobbo throwers.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 16, 2017, 10:22:06 am
Skaven Warpfire Throwers and Clanrats vs Skinks and Kroxigors. (http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/xAhxf7X3ZUinamdYKBWTNM.jpg) I like their large, green goggles.
Skaven Doomwheel with Rat Ogre charging some Dark Elves. (http://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/4iyEmBsXozHNa38LM4ebWE.jpg) There's also some, I think, Gutterrunners. It's a toss up between Gutter Runners and Night Runners as those units look rather similar.
Ratling gun is just a punny name. It's a gatling gun that shoots warpstone bullets that are very good against armoured units.
Post by: Tack on August 16, 2017, 10:29:11 am
... for now.
Are globe throwers available?
Post by: timferius on August 16, 2017, 10:36:10 am
Post by: Tack on August 16, 2017, 10:38:49 am
Maybe Moulder will get Rogres, too.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 16, 2017, 10:40:08 am
Here's an article by WCCFTech that covers a few of the Skavens mechanics and such. (http://wccftech.com/total-war-warhammer-2-introducing-skaven/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Spoiler: List from information in article (click to show/hide)
There was Poisonwind Globadiers right near the beginning of the trailer. There's also a Warplightning Cannon visable behind them. 7 seconds into the trailer. Also the Screaming Bell after that being rung by a Rat Ogre.
Edit: Screenshot of two Warplightning Cannons and Poisonwind Globadier. You can also see a Warlord/Chieftain just ahead of them. (https://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1556/15568848/3274321-machines_final_1920x1080_1502814867.png)
Screenshot of Queek Headtaker with a Hell Pit Abomination. Ooh, also a Plagueclaw Catapult (Clan Pestilens catapult that flings globs of diseased matter.) (http://10images.cgames.de/images/gamestar/279/total-war-warhammer-2_6004267.jpg)
Also: From another article in German from Gamestar. (http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/total-war-warhammer-2-endlich-vorgestellt-die-skaven-sind-das-vierte-volk,3318466.html)
Spoiler: Information (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on August 16, 2017, 10:54:56 am
No ratling gun.I think there was one at 1:25 in the trailer.
In hindsight, I now think it's a warpfire thrower.
Post by: umiman on August 16, 2017, 11:03:39 am
That's a warpfire thrower.No ratling gun.I think there was one at 1:25 in the trailer.
Post by: Teneb on August 16, 2017, 11:05:08 am
I edited that in. Yeah, you're right. Shame that. Wonder if it can be modded in using the assets available.That's a warpfire thrower.No ratling gun.I think there was one at 1:25 in the trailer.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on August 16, 2017, 11:05:28 am
Post by: umiman on August 16, 2017, 11:07:10 am
Mech did you link to the right article? I don't see any of that info.Yeah, seems like the wrong article.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 16, 2017, 11:08:22 am
The trailers don't show the entire roster, which I assume we'll get in the next day or so.
Edit: Hmm... no it's the right article. It looks like it's been edited to remove those sections. There was about 4 sub headings covering the points I put in the spoilers. If you can read german that article seens to still have it's dotpoints.
Spoiler: Points from german article (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on August 16, 2017, 11:53:38 am
Sigh... whatever. It's not like the actual faction cinematics in the game were any good. It was just the Youtube trailers for the factions that were good. The in-game ones were kinda dumb.
Still... still images? Really? This isn't some indie game with a $50,000 budget.
I never understood why CA always creates awesome trailers and cinematics, then refuses to use them in the real game. Like... why? Seriously, why? I think the last time they actually used their trailer for a game was Shogun 2's awesome opening.
Post by: Teneb on August 16, 2017, 12:09:39 pm
Post by: umiman on August 16, 2017, 12:25:29 pm
I decided to start a new campaign and it seems I've run into a rather odd problem. Despite having the new RoRs in my DLC list, despite the little popup saying that I unlocked a specific regiment... I have no button for actually grabbing them.Verify your game. If you have mods, start turning them off one by one.
---
By the way, it's been heavily hinted that the vortex is
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: thvaz on August 16, 2017, 01:45:22 pm
Post by: sambojin on August 16, 2017, 08:31:02 pm
Some other interesting points is it seems like one of the Lizardmen lords starts all the way over on the east coast of the Southlands. I assumed they would start between Naggaroth and Lustria and in Itza but the Last Defenders seem to be the second playable Lizardmen faction. I like that there's a Wood Elf faction on the map, Oreon near Karak Zorn. It seems like Tiranoc starts with some land on the Bleak Coast in Naggaroth.
Looking at Ulthuan, it seems like there's only four of the gates present. The Dragon Gate, I believe it's located between the Unicorn and Phoenix gates, doesn't seem to have a valley for it.
That Lizardman is apparently the big, fighty Saurus Lord, Kroq-gar, away on some Southlands campaign. By some YouTube videos I saw reviewing the map. I have no idea if this information is accurate though.
Post by: umiman on August 17, 2017, 03:02:52 am
I'm also hunting all the legendary lords so I can get their awesome traits. I have a regular Lord running around that I'm really fond of. His name is Knud and he's an avatar of Nurgle. His army is really tiny, only around 500 men and they're all marauders with three heroes. All he does is run around behind enemy lines to snipe enemy lords and get their traits. He collects them like trophies. The battles he's been in because of his shitty army are just glorious.
I've also been deliberately avoiding spamming Norsca's overpowered units. Max of two javelins. Max of two skinwolves. Still, they're just way too strong. I think the werekin is the strongest melee hero in the game right now, outside of legendary lords.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 17, 2017, 07:51:59 am
In other news; An updated version of Warhammer 2: Total War's campaign map has been uploaded showing the Skaven start positions and minor factions. (https://cdn.creative-assembly.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/17111146/vortex_map_w_factions_final_skaven_fulres.jpg) After looking at it, the minor factions aren't shown on the map. Apparently they're potential to appear when exploring a ruin.
Post by: thvaz on August 17, 2017, 09:01:55 am
In other news; An updated version of Warhammer 2: Total War's campaign map has been uploaded showing the Skaven start positions and minor factions. (https://cdn.creative-assembly.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/17111146/vortex_map_w_factions_final_skaven_fulres.jpg) After looking at it, the minor factions aren't shown on the map. Apparently they're potential to appear when exploring a ruin.
It would be cool if they have random starting positions, so you would never know where they would be after a starting a new game.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 17, 2017, 11:20:31 am
Indiepride/MilkandcookiesTW: Lord Skrolk Rod of Corruption quest battle. Showcases Skaven vs Lizardmen. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAeioa7-5no)
Indiepride/MilkandcookiesTW: Clan Mors campaign start. Covers things like the "Food" mechanic, Skaven Corruption, skill tree for Queek and 4 rites Skaven can invoke for various effects. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpXjcamSGEQ)
Oakley/Invicta: Skaven unit card statistics. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jphoIqTTtOs)
Oakley/Invicta: Skaven campaign mechanics. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOhaQX4C6yg)
A few notes about things:
- Hell Pit Abomination has "Too Horrible to Die", meaning it either respawns when killed or spawns a unit of Skavenslaves upon death.
- Warlock Engineers are present and can gain the "Doom Rocket" ability. A ranged missile that splits into multiple missiles.
- Sieges are much the same as they are in Warhammer 1. Though other maps seem to have more variations with cliffs and other such obsticles being more frequent.
- "The Dreaded Thirteenth Spell" is present. It spawns a unit of Deathrunners (Gutterrunner champions) onto the battlefield.
- Plague Censor Bearers actually have animated flails.
- Gutterrunner units have a "Snare" ability to hold enemy units.
- Loyalty means Skaven lords can defect, taking their troops and forming their own faction if it gets too low.
There's also some talk that Dark Elf Black Arks are present as a moving, upgradable settlement that can contribute to land battles if nearby.
Post by: Teneb on August 17, 2017, 11:33:22 am
Post by: timferius on August 17, 2017, 12:02:20 pm
A whole lot of videos have been uploaded by various Youtubers covering gameplay and campaign footage for Warhammer 2.
Indiepride/MilkandcookiesTW: Lord Skrolk Rod of Corruption quest battle. Showcases Skaven vs Lizardmen. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAeioa7-5no)
Indiepride/MilkandcookiesTW: Clan Mors campaign start. Covers things like the "Food" mechanic, Skaven Corruption, skill tree for Queek and 4 rites Skaven can invoke for various effects. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpXjcamSGEQ)
Oakley/Invicta: Skaven unit card statistics. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jphoIqTTtOs)
Oakley/Invicta: Skaven campaign mechanics. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOhaQX4C6yg)
A few notes about things:
- Hell Pit Abomination has "Too Horrible to Die", meaning it either respawns when killed or spawns a unit of Skavenslaves upon death.
- Warlock Engineers are present and can gain the "Doom Rocket" ability. A ranged missile that splits into multiple missiles.
- Sieges are much the same as they are in Warhammer 1. Though other maps seem to have more variations with cliffs and other such obsticles being more frequent.
- "The Dreaded Thirteenth Spell" is present. It spawns a unit of Deathrunners (Gutterrunner champions) onto the battlefield.
- Plague Censor Bearers actually have animated flails.
- Gutterrunner units have a "Snare" ability to hold enemy units.
- Loyalty means Skaven lords can defect, taking their troops and forming their own faction if it gets too low.
There's also some talk that Dark Elf Black Arks are present as a moving, upgradable settlement that can contribute to land battles if nearby.
Doom rockets have saved me many a time on the table top, love them.
Post by: Majestic7 on August 17, 2017, 12:15:43 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 17, 2017, 12:32:13 pm
The "Life is Cheap" rule (Firing into melee) used to apply to all Skaven ranged attacks. However, in the 7th Edition, this rule was only applied to the Poisonwind Globadiers, all other weapon teams and spells couldn't be fired into melee involving your own troops.
In Total War you can still fire into melee regardless of faction, you just right click on the unit and they'll attack. Unit's just won't automatically target engaged units unless they have a clear line of sight on some enemy models.
As for Expendable in Total War. I think it makes nearby units ignore the leadership drop from those fleeing units. I don't know whether it affects units that also have the Expendable rule.
Post by: Neonivek on August 17, 2017, 12:37:39 pm
Quote
As for Expendable in Total War. I think it makes nearby units ignore the leadership drop from those fleeing units. I don't know whether it affects units that also have the Expendable rule
Expendable doesn't do anything... But a unit that is expendable is cheap, cheap to maintain, and cheap to replenish.
Essentially they are as cheap as you can get and the units who have them are as much of cannon fodder as you can get. Essentially just moving mulch.
Post by: Teneb on August 17, 2017, 12:44:08 pm
Making all Skavens Expendable would probably unbalance them.Pretty much. That said, the zombie, despite being expendable, is probably one of the best units in the game. Cheap, plentiful and actually very good at its job (holding enemies in place and absorbing ranged attacks).QuoteAs for Expendable in Total War. I think it makes nearby units ignore the leadership drop from those fleeing units. I don't know whether it affects units that also have the Expendable rule
Expendable doesn't do anything... But a unit that is expendable is cheap, cheap to maintain, and cheap to replenish.
Essentially they are as cheap as you can get and the units who have them are as much of cannon fodder as you can get. Essentially just moving mulch.
Post by: Tack on August 17, 2017, 01:31:48 pm
I've managed to net myself a 100% upkeep reduction.
Post by: umiman on August 17, 2017, 02:22:02 pm
Skaven have no ratling guns, no doom bell, can't shoot their own allies deliberately.
However... Their loyalty system seems hilarious and annoying at the same time. Their clanrat spawning system can spawn them anywhere on the map. Their unit sizes are huge. Their food system will make them zerg really quickly.
-----
Other info:
Dark elves have their floating and flying fortresses. They are settlements with huge building chains. These fortresses can take part in battle like Fall of the Samurai naval bombardment.
They changed Malekith's voice. He sounds like Gelt now.
They added back those awesome victory choice quotes into the game. Used to be from medieval 2 where if you moused over "enslave", "ransom", "execute", the prisoners would react. In this case, it's your lord that talks.
Sieges are the same. Zzzz...
Post by: Tack on August 17, 2017, 02:29:44 pm
Post by: umiman on August 17, 2017, 02:31:02 pm
Post by: Neonivek on August 17, 2017, 02:39:58 pm
I cannot remember but there was another setting with a ratmen faction... but they were ruled by pretty boys.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on August 17, 2017, 02:49:58 pm
I've been able to triumph most of the time by baiting enemy heavies into chasing my knights and other feats of mobile warfare, because man Bretonnian infantry falls apart from a mean look. I fear the day the enemy deploys a counter to my cavalry.
Post by: Teneb on August 17, 2017, 02:53:56 pm
I haven't been able to play in a long while, but damn, was the Chaos invasion always this hardcore? I'm facing a slog of huge Norscan/Chaos Warriors armies as Bretonnia, trying to keep my Imperial allies somehow in the game. Probably beatable, but it sure looks intimidating. All very apocalyptic. Whoo boy.WoC have no counter to cavalry other than just bogging them down in heavy infantry. Norsca and beastmen on the other hand...
I've been able to triumph most of the time by baiting enemy heavies into chasing my knights and other feats of mobile warfare, because man Bretonnian infantry falls apart from a mean look. I fear the day the enemy deploys a counter to my cavalry.
Post by: timferius on August 17, 2017, 02:57:32 pm
Skaven are ruled by rat people right?
I cannot remember but there was another setting with a ratmen faction... but they were ruled by pretty boys.
Yup, Skaven are rat-people all the way down. Just teaming hordes of rats. Big rats, small rats, Massive rats, writhing mounds of rat-flesh.
Post by: umiman on August 17, 2017, 03:16:07 pm
Heh... I don't blame you for this since there's not a lot of reason to use them, and most people forget they exist, but WoC do in fact have a non-infantry anti-large unit.I haven't been able to play in a long while, but damn, was the Chaos invasion always this hardcore? I'm facing a slog of huge Norscan/Chaos Warriors armies as Bretonnia, trying to keep my Imperial allies somehow in the game. Probably beatable, but it sure looks intimidating. All very apocalyptic. Whoo boy.WoC have no counter to cavalry other than just bogging them down in heavy infantry. Norsca and beastmen on the other hand...
I've been able to triumph most of the time by baiting enemy heavies into chasing my knights and other feats of mobile warfare, because man Bretonnian infantry falls apart from a mean look. I fear the day the enemy deploys a counter to my cavalry.
Regular dragon ogres.
---
Incidentally, a sizable balance and bugfixing patch has been beta released on Steam. Basically nerfs Norsca's OP units (javelins, werekin, skinwolves) and fixes bugs.
---
Edit: Whoo, the world map now seemlessly scrolls out to the big uhh... TAB map instead of you having to press TAB every time.
Post by: Neonivek on August 17, 2017, 04:41:45 pm
Because I did download the "Capture anything" mod, but it REALLY messes with the game because it doesn't know how to handle it and the game is REALLY REALLY not set up for it (For example the Dwarves are meant to just sort of go straight down, but there is a LOT of attractive property north and west of them)
Since honestly what KILLED this game for me more than anything is the Campaign flow and how railroaded it was. Yet if I still have to say, defeat the Orcs for the majority of my Dwarf upgrades... I'd have issues.
Post by: Teneb on August 17, 2017, 04:53:22 pm
Is it true if you have the first game you not only get a mega map that features both games... But they actually balanced out the first map to the "Capture anything"?Sort of. For the second game and the combined campaign they're doing something like the Wood Elf outposts. If you conquer somewhere outside your "preferred area" (so non-human territories as humans, for example), you only get an outpost with limited options.
Because I did download the "Capture anything" mod, but it REALLY messes with the game because it doesn't know how to handle it and the game is REALLY REALLY not set up for it (For example the Dwarves are meant to just sort of go straight down, but there is a LOT of attractive property north and west of them)
Since honestly what KILLED this game for me more than anything is the Campaign flow and how railroaded it was. Yet if I still have to say, defeat the Orcs for the majority of my Dwarf upgrades... I'd have issues.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 17, 2017, 10:05:07 pm
For Skaven Most are Suitable, Unpleasant are Frozen and Chaos Wasteland while uninhabitable are Magical Forest and Temperate Island (I'm assuming this is used for Ulthuan).
An uninhabitable area gives the following negatives to a settlement.
- Public Order -3
- Construction cost: +50%
Casualty replenishment rate: -15% (Local Armies)
- Growth: -7
- Construction Time: +100% for all buildings
- Recruitment duration: +1 turn for all units (Local Armies)
- Income from all buildings: -50%.
@umiman: The Screaming Bell is present. It's a mount option for Grey Seer lords like the Anvil of Fury.
Post by: Tack on August 18, 2017, 12:44:50 am
WoC have no counter to cavalry other than just bogging them down in heavy infantry. Norsca and beastmen on the other hand...1: "Just bogging them down in heavy infantry" works when the infantry are pikemen more tanky than dwarves
2: Aren't the WoC cav units pretty good though?
Post by: Mech#4 on August 18, 2017, 01:03:56 am
Post by: umiman on August 18, 2017, 02:06:02 am
It's why your army should be Sigvald and all Chosen.
Incidentally, the new Chaos RoRs are really powerful. They also look awesome. Except the cannon. That one doesn't seem to be worth it.
Post by: Tack on August 18, 2017, 02:25:20 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 18, 2017, 03:30:28 am
Heh, don't tell the majority of chaos players on here that. Lads love their monster mash.I play Chaos like I play Dwarves. Heavy heavy HEAVY infantry focus, with some cavalry to hunt their arty, and when I can, some Hellcannons to help break the foe's leadership.
I do use a fair few Monsters, though, because linebreakers are GREAT.
That being said, instead of my "Sit there and wait" approach I use with Dawi, I have a "GET IN THERE" approach instead.
Post by: scriver on August 18, 2017, 06:20:13 am
Post by: Tack on August 18, 2017, 06:26:46 am
It's annoying as heck.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 18, 2017, 11:51:03 am
(https://www.totalwar.com/blog/skaven-army-roster/)
Spoiler: Copy of the List (click to show/hide)
The list has a nice selection of things, with only a few things missing. Suprising additions are the Plague Furnace (mount for Plague Priest) and Bonebreaker (Rat-Ogre mount for Warlord).
Things that aren't included are Jezzails, Ratling Gun, Doom-Flayer, Poisoned Wind Mortar, Warp-Grinder, Giant Rats and Chieftain hero. There's also some mounts with the Great Pox Rat and War Litter.
A lord DLC with Ikit Claw and possibly Thanquol (though I'm thinking he might be FLC along with the combined campaign map) would make sense with most of these units being from Clan Skryre.
Some units that had me looking up my rulebook to find out what they are. Death Runners are the name for champion Gutter Runners while the Death Globe Bombadier is likewise the champion unit for Globadiers, Death Globes being a stronger Poison Wind Globe.
I have to wonder about items. Death Runners are equipped with Weeping Blades but I would like to know whether you can equip a Warplock Engineer with a pistol and the brass orb (A vaccuum in a sphere). In tabletop the Brass Orb was great for erasing powerful enemy units as it dealt an Initiative save or die under the template. There was also the Fell Blade that was stupidly powerful but slowly killed its user and Warpstone Tokens you could use to boost your magic points at a risk of taking a wound.
Post by: timferius on August 18, 2017, 12:07:08 pm
Post by: Tack on August 18, 2017, 01:13:19 pm
Post by: umiman on August 18, 2017, 03:13:54 pm
The Skaven in this actually look better than in Vermintide. Sure, Vermintide is a few years old, but TWW2 is doing them by the thousands.
I'm still pissed there's no ratling gun at launch though. It'll probably come with the obvious Clan Skryre DLC but fuck. I want my gatling gun.
Post by: Majestic7 on August 19, 2017, 04:31:39 am
Heh, don't tell the majority of chaos players on here that. Lads love their monster mash.
I know that Chosen and the like are objectively better, but monsters are so cool...
Post by: Criptfeind on August 19, 2017, 07:36:28 am
Post by: umiman on August 19, 2017, 02:04:22 pm
Post by: Criptfeind on August 19, 2017, 03:59:54 pm
A most glorious battle.
Post by: sambojin on August 19, 2017, 09:53:55 pm
Imagine the beautiful little halfbreeds they'll make......
Post by: Tack on August 20, 2017, 05:34:13 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 23, 2017, 09:59:30 am
Spoiler: List of Changes (click to show/hide)
With some of the changes to skills for lords, you may lose points you had allocated in current games. In my current game, Kemmlar lost the points he had in the skills for Krell. Not a big deal but, eh.
Post by: Persus13 on August 23, 2017, 04:19:42 pm
Post by: Micro102 on August 23, 2017, 07:45:54 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 23, 2017, 09:37:15 pm
I hope they improve the maps. The field maps were either a few tiny slopes and forests, maybe a rock, or a massive cliff face that the enemy gets to practically start on. The fort maps were all "here are the same 2-3 gates on completely flat land. Do the thing you always do".Someone mentioned earlier in the thread that there was more map variation.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 23, 2017, 10:51:42 pm
Some of the siege maps have had different maps added. There was a Lizardmen city with a different wall and interior layout, can't find the image right now.
Some things people have noted from the campaign map video; you can see a Black Arc at one point and the word "currently" is used in regards to Bretonnia occupying Araby. I really like the new designs for the cities. They look much more expansive and detailed than in Warhammer 1, I noted the Vampire Coast had a new port city design.
Post by: umiman on August 24, 2017, 12:01:52 am
You can see some for yourself throughout this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7pJbChcaX4
The only interesting one I saw so far was a lizardman siege, which was basically one straight line. It's in that video as well.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 24, 2017, 08:30:02 am
Some interesting points are the ability to change what is focused on during the turn over, how advanced a particular trait is on your lord as well as a title system for Dark Elf lords that can give them different bonuses depending on their role.
The map really is very big. travelling from one continent to another will be a major undertaking what with storms, reefs and what-have-you about the place. A second part of the above video is planned to be uploaded tomorrow.
Post by: ArchAIngel on August 24, 2017, 10:30:37 am
I can get my units back!
Post by: Mech#4 on August 25, 2017, 09:52:24 am
Another thing of note is you can now angle where wind blast-type spells go. Currently their angle is determined by the position of the caster, being a straight line away. Certainly this'll make these spells easier to use though I did like getting flying mounts for casters so they were easier to target.
Post by: Tack on August 25, 2017, 11:08:20 am
That's just rude.
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2017, 11:28:03 am
Whaaat? Perfect endilading no flying mount required?They could have just saved that ability for Mazdamundi.
That's just rude.
Like, I'd have been satisfied if that was the only thing making him a superior wizard to everything else.
"He has the ability... to cast line vortexes any direction he wants"
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on August 25, 2017, 11:32:05 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Persus13 on August 25, 2017, 04:00:43 pm
The next video featuring Dark Elf gameplay is up. A battle between the Dark Elves and High Elves it shows off the various units of the Dark Elves as well as the bombardment abilities granted by the nearby Black Ark on the campaign map (Like bombardments in Fall of the Samurai) and a few spells of the lore of Dark Magic from Malekith. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phpMYkFodkE)Did they mention that they have dynamic terrain now? That high elf camp got flattened once the armies started running through it.
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2017, 04:21:36 pm
This has always been a thing. Regular maps in Warhammer have obstacles that can be destroyed by marching through them such as farm fences, stalls in the marketplace, etc. They just didn't have that many of them cause the map designers were lazy.The next video featuring Dark Elf gameplay is up. A battle between the Dark Elves and High Elves it shows off the various units of the Dark Elves as well as the bombardment abilities granted by the nearby Black Ark on the campaign map (Like bombardments in Fall of the Samurai) and a few spells of the lore of Dark Magic from Malekith. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phpMYkFodkE)Did they mention that they have dynamic terrain now? That high elf camp got flattened once the armies started running through it.
This was also a thing in Rome 2 and Attila. In fact, it was a pretty big deal in Attila as they would impede movespeed during sieges while your armies had to march through them. If you zoomed in close, you could see your units hop over fences before breaking them or plowing into the marketplace stands or whatever. Fun times.
Post by: Persus13 on August 25, 2017, 04:25:15 pm
This has always been a thing. Regular maps in Warhammer have obstacles that can be destroyed by marching through them such as farm fences, stalls in the marketplace, etc. They just didn't have that many of them cause the map designers were lazy.The most recent historical title I've played was Shogun 2, so that's why I hadn't noticed this before.
This was also a thing in Rome 2 and Attila. In fact, it was a pretty big deal in Attila as they would impede movespeed during sieges while your armies had to march through them. If you zoomed in close, you could see your units hop over fences before breaking them or plowing into the marketplace stands or whatever. Fun times.
Post by: umiman on August 25, 2017, 04:38:45 pm
Ahh, what I would do to have that in Warhammer. To incinerate all the Elves...
Attila's fire mechanics were so damn good. I had so much fun tactically setting fire to entire quadrants of a city or a forest that contained units.
I once had a battle where I placed my onagers just inside the edge of a forest and had them shoot into a city from there. One of the onagers hit a tree in front of it, setting fire to the entire forest they were in. Fun times.
Post by: Tack on August 25, 2017, 05:53:39 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 25, 2017, 09:51:07 pm
I did like the map. It had a nice hill for artillery and a depression both close to the centre. Makes taking cannons and the like more useful as they can see over your troops to fire.
Post by: Majestic7 on August 26, 2017, 04:47:11 am
Post by: Mech#4 on August 26, 2017, 04:49:19 am
Post by: Majestic7 on August 26, 2017, 05:03:43 am
Post by: thvaz on August 26, 2017, 09:06:42 am
If you hold the space bar you can make the tree canopies disappear. There's an option in the menu on the right that appears which can make the canopies remain hidden even when not holding space bar.
Wow, didn't know about that, thanks.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on August 26, 2017, 12:15:04 pm
Post by: umiman on August 26, 2017, 06:23:51 pm
Even with hidden canopies it's hard to tell what's going on sometimes, IMO, though that might be my low graphics settings influencing things. Trees are the enemy. Anyone who says otherwise is a vile and treacherous Wood Elf who deserves to be burned with their wicked forests.Nah, it's not just you. Trees are annoying on every graphic level. The problem is that currently they only go invisible if you go near them, so it's still hard to see wtf is going on. Not to mention all the trees themselves in the way.
I don't think this can ever get fixed, unless you have a view where you basically make the trees invisible somehow.
There were some maps in Shogun 2 where the dense trees made for superb ambush spots due to how it was obscenely hard to see enemies and yourself inside there. So forest battles were always a clusterfuck in singleplayer and nerve-wracking in multiplayer.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 26, 2017, 09:43:44 pm
Post by: thvaz on August 28, 2017, 07:13:15 am
Post by: umiman on August 28, 2017, 11:06:56 am
Quote
Unfortunately my NDA will block me from talking about the real reasons behind me leaving.
It's nothing against the people there, they're talented and friendly and it was a fun environment to work in.
But knowing certain things about the processes at CA and how the games are handled is something I didn't want to help promote anymore.
I'm taking a massive risk doing this, and honestly can't imagine it will work out that well for me, but that's how strongly I felt I had to leave... me... one of the biggest fans of the series.
Post by: thvaz on August 28, 2017, 02:19:04 pm
So apparently the guy who did a bunch of CA's Youtube videos has quit his job and judging by his reponses on why (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6wj829/i_quit_my_job_at_ca_and_am_returning_to_total_war/), it doesn't sound like it was on amicable terms.QuoteUnfortunately my NDA will block me from talking about the real reasons behind me leaving.
It's nothing against the people there, they're talented and friendly and it was a fun environment to work in.
But knowing certain things about the processes at CA and how the games are handled is something I didn't want to help promote anymore.
I'm taking a massive risk doing this, and honestly can't imagine it will work out that well for me, but that's how strongly I felt I had to leave... me... one of the biggest fans of the series.
I'm sorry for him, he seems to be a nice guy, but he should have stayed quiet. He even said in the thread you linked that Warhammer 2 is shaping to be a great game - it looks like he was just burned out by working in a great studio.
Post by: Tack on August 28, 2017, 03:26:51 pm
If someone feels it's necessary to quit, chances are something is wrong in the company.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 28, 2017, 03:34:35 pm
Post by: Tack on August 28, 2017, 03:45:23 pm
http://www.twitch.tv/darrentotalwar (http://www.twitch.tv/darrentotalwar)
I was on my phone so I don't know, but second-hand stuff says it was vitriolic.
Post by: umiman on August 28, 2017, 03:53:06 pm
Was expecting some juicy drama or high level corporate fuckery. Instead it was a guy bitching about animations and nitpicking game stuff.
He just burnt so many bridges over such minor crap. No one will ever hire him again so if his YouTube doesn't pan out, he doesn't really have a backup plan.
Such a sorry fool.
Post by: Tack on August 28, 2017, 03:56:24 pm
Post by: umiman on August 28, 2017, 04:11:24 pm
Maybe that was just it. He had a whole bunch of bottled nitpicks which he wasn't allowed to air whilst under contract.He says he aired them a lot but felt he was ignored since they didn't do anything about them.
If you watch the VOD clips you'll understand why I think he screwed himself. He was basically venting and raving for the entire duration. It was quite juvenile and I bet right now he's sweating bricks over breaking the same NDA that he didn't want to break.
While it's understandable that you can get frustrated over stuff at work, most people bitch about it at the bar or to their friends. Having an episode in front of the entire world? Very bad idea. Especially if the premises were just... So minor and irrelevant. Hell, at one point he claimed Paradox has better business practices than CA. Lol.
CA wishes they could be Paradox when it comes to milking their fanbase.
Post by: Tack on August 28, 2017, 04:13:46 pm
Post by: lordcooper on August 28, 2017, 05:41:01 pm
Total War: Warhammer + all DLC and the incoming expansion (not including the cosmetic stuff) costs Ł134.
Honestly, I'd say CA are milking us a lot more here. I've gotten far more mileage out of CK2 (and it's still ongoing) than I'm likely to get out of the entire TW:W series (if we're pretending they're separate games). And, well, TW:W is guaranteed to have another Ł40 expansion and a whole new round of DLC for parts two and three, so you can realistically expect to at least double that Ł134 before it's finished.
Don't get me wrong, they're both fairly awful. But I'd argue that CA are the greater of two evils here. If they'd made CK2 most of the counts would be unavailable to play as without mods and we'd be looking at separate DLCs for Scotland, Ireland, Brittany etc etc
Post by: Tack on August 28, 2017, 06:13:24 pm
HoI "Break the game and sell the fix" 4 was maybe the worst DLC policy I'd seen.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 29, 2017, 01:58:29 am
Post by: Teneb on August 29, 2017, 05:43:53 am
And then there's Stellaris...Stellaris' main problem is still being feature-light, but it is, fortunately for me, not broken like HoI4.
Post by: Wiles on August 29, 2017, 07:41:27 am
SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!
Ahem.
I just finished playing the Norsca campaign and it was probably the most fun I've had with the game yet. I think part of the appeal was that once you confederate the north your enemies are all south of you so you don't get overwhelmed when you're at war with everyone. I enjoyed their mixed roster of men and monsters. Even their throwaway units didn't seem like utter crap. My favourite unit would have to be the mammoth, stomping through Bretonian peasants was a gleeful experience.
Have they toned down the aggressive actions of enemy heroes? When I first played the game on release I was annoyed by how frequently they'd swarm me with heroes and spam abilities. It bugged me so much that I downloaded a mod to nix their ability to use offensive actions. But in my last playthrough without the mod it seemed very tolerable.
Post by: umiman on August 29, 2017, 08:04:20 am
Have they toned down the aggressive actions of enemy heroes? When I first played the game on release I was annoyed by how frequently they'd swarm me with heroes and spam abilities. It bugged me so much that I downloaded a mod to nix their ability to use offensive actions. But in my last playthrough without the mod it seemed very tolerable.Since release?
Yeah, they did quite a bit to tone it down.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 29, 2017, 09:40:56 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on August 29, 2017, 10:44:37 am
Post by: thvaz on August 29, 2017, 12:31:59 pm
I think the last patch actually increased the protection timer lords get when they foil an enemy hero's ability. It's called "On Guard" and reduces things like assassination attempts success percentage by about 30%. It lasts about 5 turns now where previously I think it lasted for 1 or 2.
Yes, it is kinda annoying againt the greenskins that more than other factions just swarm the map with agents.
Post by: Fewah on August 29, 2017, 02:42:55 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on August 31, 2017, 11:12:12 am
Some points they make on the graphics are:
Improved Screen Space Ambient Occlusion (SSAO)
New volumetric fog system which thickens the air, producing god-ray effects
New sharpening filter
Impressive wet-look surfaces, appropriate to certain models and model features
Also came with a nice screenshot over a High Elf city. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/9y/sic5shv5u83m.jpg)
Post by: umiman on August 31, 2017, 03:04:57 pm
So since the main CA media guy left the company over "creative" differences, CA's latest gameplay steam went really poorly. It went so bad people are comparing it to Polygon's coverage of Doom last year,a s the two CA staff members playing on stream had no idea how to play Total War. The stream was so poor that CA actually deleted the VOD from Twitch (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/6x72jv/ca_deleted_the_skaven_stream_vod_form_their_twitch/).
I think the whole thing is just kinda funny, since most devs are generally trash at their own game. Every gameplay video of Monster Hunter can attest to it.
Post by: Tack on August 31, 2017, 04:35:26 pm
Post by: umiman on August 31, 2017, 04:39:47 pm
Sounds like they're in the market for a media guy.They kinda are. They don't really have a community team right now.
They used to have Joey, Darren, and so on who were really great and were really active on Facebook, Reddit, Youtube, etc. but Joey got promoted, Darren left, and the rest seem to be MIA.
Currently there's no one teasing stuff in the community or answering questions as far as I can tell.
Post by: Tack on August 31, 2017, 04:58:20 pm
Not like it's gonna make me un-preorder though.
Post by: Antioch on September 01, 2017, 08:26:51 am
CK2 + all expansions (not including the cosmetic stuff) costs Ł134.
Total War: Warhammer + all DLC and the incoming expansion (not including the cosmetic stuff) costs Ł134.
Honestly, I'd say CA are milking us a lot more here. I've gotten far more mileage out of CK2 (and it's still ongoing) than I'm likely to get out of the entire TW:W series (if we're pretending they're separate games). And, well, TW:W is guaranteed to have another Ł40 expansion and a whole new round of DLC for parts two and three, so you can realistically expect to at least double that Ł134 before it's finished.
Don't get me wrong, they're both fairly awful. But I'd argue that CA are the greater of two evils here. If they'd made CK2 most of the counts would be unavailable to play as without mods and we'd be looking at separate DLCs for Scotland, Ireland, Brittany etc etc
Thank god there are sales.
I bought the base game for 20eu and the wood elf dlc for 11.50eu
Post by: umiman on September 01, 2017, 12:25:04 pm
Speaking of sales... (https://i.redd.it/7icsdhukd9jz.jpg)CK2 + all expansions (not including the cosmetic stuff) costs Ł134.
Total War: Warhammer + all DLC and the incoming expansion (not including the cosmetic stuff) costs Ł134.
Honestly, I'd say CA are milking us a lot more here. I've gotten far more mileage out of CK2 (and it's still ongoing) than I'm likely to get out of the entire TW:W series (if we're pretending they're separate games). And, well, TW:W is guaranteed to have another Ł40 expansion and a whole new round of DLC for parts two and three, so you can realistically expect to at least double that Ł134 before it's finished.
Don't get me wrong, they're both fairly awful. But I'd argue that CA are the greater of two evils here. If they'd made CK2 most of the counts would be unavailable to play as without mods and we'd be looking at separate DLCs for Scotland, Ireland, Brittany etc etc
Thank god there are sales.
I bought the base game for 20eu and the wood elf dlc for 11.50eu
Post by: Mech#4 on September 04, 2017, 11:58:38 am
Post by: Micro102 on September 06, 2017, 03:20:47 am
Post by: thvaz on September 06, 2017, 05:38:01 am
Could someone tell me if the DLC is worth it? Because that's a really high price for what adds a little more land and a new race to play as.
If you want to play as the race it is worth it. The three DLC races are fun. If you don't, you can just fight against them without buying the DLC`s
Post by: Retropunch on September 07, 2017, 11:11:14 am
Could someone tell me if the DLC is worth it? Because that's a really high price for what adds a little more land and a new race to play as.
So I haven't bought the race packs but a friend of mine (who let me have a go whilst he was at work for two days) has bought all of them so I've sort of had it both ways. They're only worth it if you really like that particular race - if you're a big fan of wood elves or Norsca then you'll enjoy them, otherwise I really, really wouldn't bother. Whilst they do add some stuff and they are interesting, they're not really worth the cost as just sort of...extra mechanics - you have to really like the race itself.
What I'd do though is play through a game where you either heavily ally with the race pack you're thinking of playing (and then have joint battles) or fight against them. I found my desire to play as them significantly waned after that.
Post by: Teneb on September 07, 2017, 11:13:38 am
Post by: Mech#4 on September 07, 2017, 11:32:41 am
Post by: Micro102 on September 08, 2017, 02:51:29 pm
I think Micro might be talking about Warhammer 2. In which case, it not only adds 4 new races, but also about as much map as the original base game.
No, I was talking about the DLC for the first one. I'm definatly going to buy the second :) (when it's on massive sale)
Post by: Teneb on September 08, 2017, 02:56:50 pm
What made me think that was you claiming that it expanded the map. None of the DLCs expand the map.I think Micro might be talking about Warhammer 2. In which case, it not only adds 4 new races, but also about as much map as the original base game.No, I was talking about the DLC for the first one. I'm definatly going to buy the second :) (when it's on massive sale)
Post by: Mech#4 on September 08, 2017, 11:28:29 pm
The map looks very nice, the artists have done a great job on getting the look of the High Elfs right. The map shown has a number of differences to a usual siege, though it remains mostly the same. There are two paths leading up slopes to the gates, you can't take siege towers, a raised platform behind the walls as well as some ravines you could put artillery behind. It doesn't show the extent of the playing area but I assume it goes back to just before where the red carpeted stairs begin.
Post by: umiman on September 08, 2017, 11:51:13 pm
Currently if the AI doesn't get siege towers, you can basically defend triple or quadruple your numbers in a defensive siege. If the AI gets the towers, then it becomes a different story. But since you can't get them in this special siege... uh... good luck AI.
Post by: Shadowgandor on September 09, 2017, 01:09:06 pm
What made me think that was you claiming that it expanded the map. None of the DLCs expand the map.I think Micro might be talking about Warhammer 2. In which case, it not only adds 4 new races, but also about as much map as the original base game.No, I was talking about the DLC for the first one. I'm definatly going to buy the second :) (when it's on massive sale)
Wood Elves does though. It opens up the forest
Post by: Teneb on September 09, 2017, 01:24:18 pm
It did with the update. You don't need to buy elves to go into Athel Loren.What made me think that was you claiming that it expanded the map. None of the DLCs expand the map.I think Micro might be talking about Warhammer 2. In which case, it not only adds 4 new races, but also about as much map as the original base game.No, I was talking about the DLC for the first one. I'm definatly going to buy the second :) (when it's on massive sale)
Wood Elves does though. It opens up the forest
Post by: Teneb on September 12, 2017, 05:50:43 am
Skip to 7:58. Title is rather misleading, but we kind of already knew Tomb Kings would be a thing.
Skip back to 7:14 for a really dumb question.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 12, 2017, 09:35:22 am
Post by: Neyvn on September 12, 2017, 10:42:46 am
Anyone want to trade it for something of lesser value? Donno, I just have it sitting there unused and I don't really want to deal with something like G2A or such to make worth of it...
Main thing I want is XCom2 War of Chosen DLC. :P
Post by: Tack on September 12, 2017, 12:25:56 pm
Post by: umiman on September 12, 2017, 12:39:38 pm
Warhammer is a year old and frequently goes on sale for 50% off or more. The record was when it was on Humble Bundle for like $16.
War of the Chosen on the other hand is brand new and costs more than the net worth of Venezuela.
Post by: Neyvn on September 12, 2017, 03:17:21 pm
Oh that was Warhammer 2...
Wait,, TW:Warhammer is 60USD on Steam while XCom2:War of Chosen DLC is 40USD...
$20 difference? Thats still better on your end...
Heck, I will throw in Killing Floor 2 as well. Hows that sound???
Post by: ArchAIngel on September 12, 2017, 03:21:27 pm
The last part of the ritual has been added. There doesn't seem to be a clue but deduction should lead people to the answer. (https://www.totalwar.com/ritual)Okay...
I've tried Skaven and Rat and Rats, none of those work.
Put it in spoilers for those more willing to stretch their brains?
Post by: Teneb on September 12, 2017, 03:44:47 pm
The last part of the ritual has been added. There doesn't seem to be a clue but deduction should lead people to the answer. (https://www.totalwar.com/ritual)Okay...
I've tried Skaven and Rat and Rats, none of those work.
Put it in spoilers for those more willing to stretch their brains?
Spoiler: The Answer (click to show/hide)
It's a rhyme.
EDIT: In mod news, this is cool (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1132508660).
Post by: Mech#4 on September 15, 2017, 11:57:50 am
The blessed spawning units seem quite neat, the Carnasaur they show has 25% more speed as well as 50% magic resistance. The new upgrades for spells are nice as well, with more levels lowering the casting cost of base and overcharged as well as lowering the miscast chance. Some of the later research topics gives things like -1 to global recruit time as well as 200% to mining and quarry income (Gold mines and the like).
Edit: There's also been a few other things over the last few days. A cinematic overview of the new world campaign map (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyuiR5mvvgI) and a video showcasing the Moon Dragon. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1Y75CQuQB4)
There was also a small tournament between various Creative Assembly employees. Here's a link to the Total War Twitch channel if you want to watch the full stream. (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/174449628) Several YouTubers who cover Total War content (Such as Invicta and MilkandcookiesTW) also have videos covering specific battles if you don't wish to watch the whole broadcast.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 20, 2017, 10:14:58 am
(https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-empires)
A lot of the mechanics we're seeing implemented in Warhammer 2 are going to be present in the combined campaign map. Climate effects, dragon breath attacks as well as 35 legendary lords across 25 starting positions and 295 settlements controlled by 117 factions.
Here's the FLC plan so far. It looks like we're going to be seeing a new Skaven, High Elf and Lizardman legendary lord in the future. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/kg/a0mzeruy2yb4.png) Reading some more, it seems like Creative Assembly has mentioned that the Skaven lord isn't Thanquol so I'm guessing it's likely Ikit Claw, considering the next FLC is called "The Experiment".
Post by: Teneb on September 20, 2017, 10:24:58 am
For other paid LLs in the Grim and the Grave style packs, I expect the Everqueen to be one, maybe Hellebron. No idea who would be the Lizardman one. Kroak or Tenehauin (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Tehenhauin). The latter would make more sense since he is the prophet of Sotek and in the tabletop gave massive bonuses vs Skaven. Also is a skink.
EDIT: I like the last paragraph.
Quote
And a final word on the name. We know that not all the empires and characters featured in Mortal Empires are ‘mortal’ in the truest sense of the word. But compared with what may be stirring on the distant horizon…Spoopy pyramids confirmed.
Post by: umiman on September 20, 2017, 11:06:32 am
Post by: lordcooper on September 20, 2017, 01:25:44 pm
Post by: Tack on September 20, 2017, 01:45:02 pm
Maybe Cathay?
Post by: Teneb on September 20, 2017, 02:01:51 pm
It sounds more like it's referring to chaos. Because compared to chaos demons, even Egyptian skeletons are mortal.TKs are actually immortal, though. Destroying a Nehekaran just causes them to be out of comission until either they manage to somehow put themselves together, or someone else does. Even if the body is destroyed. Because fuck explaining lore.
Post by: umiman on September 20, 2017, 02:33:50 pm
There's also the fact that the entire context of the quote revolves around that point being the third game's mega campaign not involving "mortal" empires. Unless you think Tomb Kings are going to be a race in the third game... it's a reference to Chaos.It sounds more like it's referring to chaos. Because compared to chaos demons, even Egyptian skeletons are mortal.TKs are actually immortal, though. Destroying a Nehekaran just causes them to be out of comission until either they manage to somehow put themselves together, or someone else does. Even if the body is destroyed. Because fuck explaining lore.
Not that I think this has any relevance whatsoever. We already know Tomb Kings are going to be DLC for sure in this one and that the third game is going to be about Chaos...
Post by: Teneb on September 20, 2017, 02:40:59 pm
They mention that the WH1+WH2+WH3 campaign is separate from the Mortal Empires one. And I interpreted it as being something for the Vortex/Mortal Empires campaigns (Though obviously will be part of the final combined map). Hence Tomb Kings.There's also the fact that the entire context of the quote revolves around that point being the third game's mega campaign not involving "mortal" empires. Unless you think Tomb Kings are going to be a race in the third game... it's Chaos.It sounds more like it's referring to chaos. Because compared to chaos demons, even Egyptian skeletons are mortal.TKs are actually immortal, though. Destroying a Nehekaran just causes them to be out of comission until either they manage to somehow put themselves together, or someone else does. Even if the body is destroyed. Because fuck explaining lore.
At any rate, I expect there will be more Norsca-like DLC where CA has to make up its own lore due to the TKs being the only armybook faction who has land in the Vortex map (Daemons aside, since they can be anywhere).
Post by: umiman on September 20, 2017, 03:16:32 pm
At any rate, I expect there will be more Norsca-like DLC where CA has to make up its own lore due to the TKs being the only armybook faction who has land in the Vortex map (Daemons aside, since they can be anywhere).It took me awhile to figure out what you mean here until I realized you meant "Southlands", not "Vortex map".
Then yeah, they'll probably throw in Araby at some point as part of some reconquista thing since they're being occupied by Bretonnian Crusaders right now.
Post by: scriver on September 20, 2017, 04:18:23 pm
I will have to do with enslaving the world under my skelegypton fist.
Post by: Tack on September 20, 2017, 04:33:08 pm
Only thing more annoying than an inaccessible and impassable athel loren is an ina-impa Skavenblight.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 20, 2017, 11:12:09 pm
As for the "We know not all of them are mortal empires" I did take that as referencing game 3 and the Chaos Daemons since it said distant future.
Post by: Tack on September 20, 2017, 11:36:03 pm
Post by: umiman on September 21, 2017, 10:10:07 am
There's so many movies now. Introductions, rituals, etc.
Here's one: https://youtu.be/13SZzkQWAkk
Post by: Persus13 on September 21, 2017, 11:01:39 am
Post by: Teneb on September 21, 2017, 11:17:51 am
Post by: umiman on September 21, 2017, 11:34:37 am
Post by: Teneb on September 21, 2017, 11:40:18 am
I wonder if they'll use him to narrate for the other Chaos factions in the third game too. That would be quite amusing. I can't imagine Mr. Angry Skull being very happy about that.Khorne is ambivalent towards Tzeentch. But I will be disappointed if he doesn't constantly insult and belittle you if you are playing as a hypothetical nurglite faction.
Post by: umiman on September 21, 2017, 11:54:40 am
Khorne? Ambivalent?I wonder if they'll use him to narrate for the other Chaos factions in the third game too. That would be quite amusing. I can't imagine Mr. Angry Skull being very happy about that.Khorne is ambivalent towards Tzeentch. But I will be disappointed if he doesn't constantly insult and belittle you if you are playing as a hypothetical nurglite faction.
You're referring to the guy who flays the soul of any sorcerer who dares approach him as ambivalent towards the prime chief superguy of magic?
Are you sure you're referring to the right person, because I don't think ambivalent is a mood that exists for Mr. Angry Man. I highly doubt he's capable of being ambivalent to a bowl of cereal, let alone any of the other gods.
Post by: Grim Portent on September 21, 2017, 03:35:00 pm
Khorne? Ambivalent?I wonder if they'll use him to narrate for the other Chaos factions in the third game too. That would be quite amusing. I can't imagine Mr. Angry Skull being very happy about that.Khorne is ambivalent towards Tzeentch. But I will be disappointed if he doesn't constantly insult and belittle you if you are playing as a hypothetical nurglite faction.
You're referring to the guy who flays the soul of any sorcerer who dares approach him as ambivalent towards the prime chief superguy of magic?
Are you sure you're referring to the right person, because I don't think ambivalent is a mood that exists for Mr. Angry Man. I highly doubt he's capable of being ambivalent to a bowl of cereal, let alone any of the other gods.
Tzeentch isn't actually all that high on his shit-list, Slaanesh has top tier position. Khorne only hates Tzeentch about as much as everyone else who isn't Slaanesh since basically everyone else is magic with few exceptions anyway.
One version of the established heirarchy is him and Tzeentch teaming up against Nurgle and Slaanesh. Basically the two established guys kicking the weaker two to keep them down.
Post by: Persus13 on September 23, 2017, 11:25:11 am
Post by: scriver on September 24, 2017, 12:16:26 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on September 24, 2017, 12:55:07 am
I wonder how much skaben troop counts are going to fuck up battle auto-solving.Well, Lionheart utterly SHATTERED 1.8 stacks or so worth of them with a little over half a stack of Lizardmen when it said it'd be a 50/50 chance auto'd.
Post by: Majestic7 on September 25, 2017, 01:04:05 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 25, 2017, 04:24:25 pm
The one cheat I miss from old Total Wars is the ability to get crushing victories on auto-resolve. There are still battles I know I will win crushingly against the enemy, but auto-resolve will give unacceptable casualties.. but I couldn't be bothered to fight otherwise.Sometimes the result indicator for autoresolve will just be plain wrong. Quicksave and see if it actually plays as advertised or not. Unless you are on Legendary. In that case you should not autoresolve ever.
Post by: umiman on September 27, 2017, 11:26:06 am
Since FFA winners are decided by who killed the most units, I imagine the best strat is to just use single unit monsters. Then when everyone just uses single unit monsters, you use monsters with lots of anti-large as well as regeneration if possible.
Or maybe have a mage on a horse running around looking for gigantic clumps of units to drop some super spell on.
I imagine Norsca is going to roflstomp the FFA mode by just spamming skinwolves and mammoths.
----------
Incidentally, the early reviews have all come in and while they are all rated very highly the common complaint is that the vortex campaign sucks dick.
Game comes out tomorrow by the way. If you're a dumbass slut man-whore like myself who pointlessly preordered this game, then the preload has been up for awhile now though you have to manually ask Steam to preload for you.
Post by: Criptfeind on September 27, 2017, 11:32:57 am
Post by: PrimusRibbus on September 27, 2017, 11:36:01 am
FREE FOR ALL BATTLE VIDEO (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lpjwRmFGNU&spfreload=5)
Since FFA winners are decided by who killed the most units, I imagine the best strat is to just use single unit monsters. Then when everyone just uses single unit monsters, you use monsters with lots of anti-large as well as regeneration if possible.
I am very hyped for that. I wasted years in the 90's playing FFA battles in Myth: TFL and Myth II. FFA hasn't gotten much love in real-time tactics games in a long time.
Post by: umiman on September 27, 2017, 11:53:58 am
Post by: Teneb on September 27, 2017, 11:59:50 am
Umiman: could you either link to the complaints about the Vortex itself or paraphrase it for us?
Post by: umiman on September 27, 2017, 12:02:22 pm
Finally got enough money to get the game later today. I guess I'll be playing Norsca tonight.Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/72qm20/german_gaming_magazine_claims_vortex_mechanic_is/
Umiman: could you either link to the complaints about the Vortex itself or paraphrase it for us?
tl;dr: The map is too big to properly intercept any vortex issues. The summon armies mechanic to disrupt the rituals doesn't work as the armies just fuck off and do random things instead. The final vortex battle is way too easy and makes it so you don't have to care about the entire mechanic at all because there's no way you can lose the last chance battle regardless.
Post by: Teneb on September 27, 2017, 12:55:31 pm
Yeah, the final vortex battle is easy. But I remember that not too long ago I was utter and complete trash at the game, and a lot of people are also not good at it. If you don't want to have the chance to do a failsafe battle then just... quit when it pops up? It's the same as just losing outright.
Can you imagine the reaction if CA decided that you HAD to be the first to complete the rituals or game over? Some people (though not me) just want to paint the map and make nice borders (embrace the bordergore).
I expect mods will start popping up pretty fast to make it as hard or easy as the user may want.
Post by: umiman on September 27, 2017, 12:57:24 pm
I expect mods will start popping up pretty fast to make it as hard or easy as the user may want.Uhh... I don't think you can actually mod quest battles themselves. There are no mods in TWW that do that, despite many of the end-game ones being stupidly easy too.
From the way people are describing the final battle, you don't have to do anything to win, as the AI has to fight 3 other AI armies anyway. So it's not that it's just easy. It's to the point where you don't have to even be there and the only way you could lose that battle is if you deliberately sabotaged your allies in that fight.
Post by: Teneb on September 27, 2017, 01:00:13 pm
You can't mod the battles. But you can mod unit stats, which will increase the difficulty.I expect mods will start popping up pretty fast to make it as hard or easy as the user may want.Uhh... I don't think you can actually mod quest battles themselves. There are no mods in TWW that do that, despite many of the end-game ones being stupidly easy too.
From the way people are describing the final battle, you don't have to do anything to win, as the AI has to fight 3 other AI armies anyway. So it's not that it's just easy. It's to the point where you don't have to even be there and the only way you could lose that battle is if you deliberately sabotaged your allies in that fight.
Post by: umiman on September 27, 2017, 01:03:39 pm
How would that make the final battle more difficult? All the AI ally troops will have increased unit stats too. I'm assuming you're referring to how you can modify the stat cheats the AI gets when you up the difficulty, but they affect all AI troops, not just the enemy. They have to, because all the AI are your enemies to begin with. You can't temporarily change the stats on a per battle basis.You can't mod the battles. But you can mod unit stats, which will increase the difficulty.I expect mods will start popping up pretty fast to make it as hard or easy as the user may want.Uhh... I don't think you can actually mod quest battles themselves. There are no mods in TWW that do that, despite many of the end-game ones being stupidly easy too.
From the way people are describing the final battle, you don't have to do anything to win, as the AI has to fight 3 other AI armies anyway. So it's not that it's just easy. It's to the point where you don't have to even be there and the only way you could lose that battle is if you deliberately sabotaged your allies in that fight.
So you just end up with all the AI being more powerful and you still don't have to do anything.
-----------
I don't really care too much about the ritual stuff anyway. I kinda accepted it to be gimmicky and more like a non-replayable thing anyway.
My main focus was always on the combined campaign. That and manual control ratling guns. But since I won't get either at release, I'm pretty ambivalent on everything.
Post by: Tack on September 27, 2017, 03:20:36 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 27, 2017, 08:00:53 pm
Looking forward to doing a Dark Elf run tomorrow.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 28, 2017, 12:26:06 am
I expect mods will start popping up pretty fast to make it as hard or easy as the user may want.Uhh... I don't think you can actually mod quest battles themselves. There are no mods in TWW that do that, despite many of the end-game ones being stupidly easy too.
From the way people are describing the final battle, you don't have to do anything to win, as the AI has to fight 3 other AI armies anyway. So it's not that it's just easy. It's to the point where you don't have to even be there and the only way you could lose that battle is if you deliberately sabotaged your allies in that fight.
It seems like stopping the A.I. from winning the last battle doesn't mean you win, rather you still have to complete the ritual yourself before you can win the campaign.
Quote
CA_Whelan said:
Hey guys, stopping the AI win the final battle doesn't win the final battle for yourself!
You have to go through the entire ritual chain and trigger the final battle on your own to win the campaign through the vortex race, we just give you a chance to claw yourself back and have a second wind by stopping the other factions from completing the race.
If they're reporting that you can just teleport an army over and win the game then I'm afraid they've misunderstood
On the intervention armies; I do think they undermine a bit of the challenge and rush when you can summon armies, but it's understandable when the maps so big.
With mods it should be possible to modify some things to do with the campaign. There are mods that change when the Chaos armies arrive in Warhammer 1, whether they arrive earlier or later.
Post by: Tack on September 28, 2017, 12:29:17 am
Very keen.
Not sure if it's rolling release though, because it's releasing at not-midnight.
Post by: umiman on September 28, 2017, 02:07:32 am
-------
Feels so weird to see such a teeny tiny faction selection list again. Hopefully we don't have to wait too long for the Mortal Empires map so I can kill Elves with Dwarf fire.
Also there's no blood.
Post by: thvaz on September 28, 2017, 06:49:34 am
Graphics are weird somehow. Fonts are kinda blurry. Playing at 1440p max settings and the game doesnt look very good. Though I had this problem with game 1 too.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 28, 2017, 09:55:53 am
Post by: umiman on September 28, 2017, 02:18:09 pm
It features High Elves doing what High Elves do best.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on September 28, 2017, 02:39:45 pm
They did a thing with more storyline and it's fallen flat 'cos I just want to expand and conquer, and then they threw in a bunch of cutscenes to bring me in to the story, which again don't really do anything for me.
That and now the between-turn camera pan-across is... I wouldn't say jarring, but overly showy. It's certainly gotten a lot more flair since the days of bare-bones historical sims.
Also I always thought of Morathi as being more wizened... that was not so.
Post by: umiman on September 28, 2017, 04:26:32 pm
--------
If you guys haven't seen it, you need to see how the Grey Seer rides the Screaming Bell. It's frigging hilarious.
Post by: Teneb on September 28, 2017, 05:59:40 pm
Post by: scriver on September 29, 2017, 12:25:34 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on September 29, 2017, 01:45:07 am
That was an unexpected, but nice, boon.
Post by: sprinkled chariot on September 29, 2017, 02:45:40 am
Post by: Mech#4 on September 29, 2017, 02:56:56 am
Did Surtha Ek the everchariot make his way in tw 2 ?
Makes him sound like he'll appear randomly in battle like Doomrider. Charging over a hill at the head of a host of Chaos Chariots, trampling all before him.
Post by: Tack on September 29, 2017, 03:07:31 am
Post by: Coolnesstod on September 29, 2017, 10:34:18 am
The prices of the past 6-7 years of total war games, is insane. Let me explain. Shogun 2:total war, without any dlc, is $30 base price; with dlc, $50. About what I expected for a 6, almost 7 year old game. Rome 2, a 4 year old game now, is still $60, without dlc. Add all the dlc, $145.90. <- That is insane. How about Attila? A 2, almost 3 year old game, $45 base price. huh. Cheaper than Rome. Add all dlc, $117.91. Not as insane, but still kind of insane. I can excuse Warhammer 1, since it is a newer game, and I'm not expecting a price drop at all for it. I could bring up the older games, but that's digging too deep. I expect all these games will be priced this way until they hit the 6/7 year mark, like shogun 2, which is kind of worrying.
I'm not asking that these prices be dropped to like $20 or anything, just i think that these older games and their prices should be looked at, and reevaluated. Maybe give us new bundles or have sales for the games more often.
Post by: Tack on September 29, 2017, 10:40:50 am
Warhammer 1 was 50% off over christmas.
It could just be an 'Age of Steam' thing, where games don't depreciate as fast.
Post by: thvaz on September 29, 2017, 11:21:18 am
Post by: PrimusRibbus on September 29, 2017, 11:45:46 am
Since this is the latest total war, I'm just gonna voice my biggest complaint with the total war series as a whole here.
The prices of the past 6-7 years of total war games, is insane. Let me explain. Shogun 2:total war, without any dlc, is $30 base price; with dlc, $50. About what I expected for a 6, almost 7 year old game. Rome 2, a 4 year old game now, is still $60, without dlc. Add all the dlc, $145.90. <- That is insane. How about Attila? A 2, almost 3 year old game, $45 base price. huh. Cheaper than Rome. Add all dlc, $117.91. Not as insane, but still kind of insane. I can excuse Warhammer 1, since it is a newer game, and I'm not expecting a price drop at all for it. I could bring up the older games, but that's digging too deep. I expect all these games will be priced this way until they hit the 6/7 year mark, like shogun 2, which is kind of worrying.
I'm not asking that these prices be dropped to like $20 or anything, just i think that these older games and their prices should be looked at, and reevaluated. Maybe give us new bundles or have sales for the games more often.
As an example, Rome 2 and its DLC have gone on 75% off sale four times this year so far. If you're missing these sales, be sure to put the game on your wishlist and enable email notifications.
If you're expecting a bigger sale than that keep in mind that Rome 2, a four year old game in a niche genre that was critically panned by the community for its initial bugginess, is still usually in the top 50 games by concurrent players on Steam in any given week (and in a week where Warhammer 2 is taking the attention of most of the TW fans, Rome 2 is still around 60th last I checked). That's a game that has legs, and you're not going to see Medieval 2-level sales until the player count drops to Medieval 2-level numbers.
Post by: Sindain on September 29, 2017, 11:47:07 am
Skraelings are wrecking High Elves in my game. I got the chance to look at one of their armies and it looks like their roster is pre-Norsca DLC.
I've been fighting the Norse pretty extensively as Malekith, and yeah, I've only see pre dlc units. Although I did not notice at the time, as I haven't actually played a game with the Norsca dlc yet.
Post by: Teneb on September 29, 2017, 11:52:58 am
It probably has to do with the fact that Norsca got released after work on TWW2 had started. CA mentioned that at first the Mortal Empires campaign will feature pre-dlc unplayable Norsca.Skraelings are wrecking High Elves in my game. I got the chance to look at one of their armies and it looks like their roster is pre-Norsca DLC.
I've been fighting the Norse pretty extensively as Malekith, and yeah, I've only see pre dlc units. Although I did not notice at the time, as I haven't actually played a game with the Norsca dlc yet.
Post by: umiman on September 29, 2017, 12:37:31 pm
It feels like I'm stuck in a porthole on the campaign map.
Post by: Cruxador on September 29, 2017, 12:57:14 pm
I've found the game so far to be the XCOM 2 of TWarhammers.Haven't played 2, but one thing I found to be a problem with the first was that just expanding and conquering quickly became the only thing to do, and the strategic gameplay was nowhere near satisfying enough to support that. And once you've got a strategic advantage, the tactical gameplay soon becomes far less relevant, since you can just toss a full stack of good units at any problem and even just auto-calc a pretty good victory. Together with the multiple-minute load times (Why? My computer is getting older, I guess, but definitely not old enough to justify this) for each battle and the game stopped being interesting very quick. If there's a bit more story, at least that'll give some purpose to your actions.
They did a thing with more storyline and it's fallen flat 'cos I just want to expand and conquer, and then they threw in a bunch of cutscenes to bring me in to the story, which again don't really do anything for me.
That and now the between-turn camera pan-across is... I wouldn't say jarring, but overly showy. It's certainly gotten a lot more flair since the days of bare-bones historical sims.
Also I always thought of Morathi as being more wizened... that was not so.
Post by: umiman on September 29, 2017, 02:12:34 pm
My enjoyment of Total War went up tenfold the day I bought an SSD.I've found the game so far to be the XCOM 2 of TWarhammers.(Why? My computer is getting older, I guess, but definitely not old enough to justify this)
They did a thing with more storyline and it's fallen flat 'cos I just want to expand and conquer, and then they threw in a bunch of cutscenes to bring me in to the story, which again don't really do anything for me.
That and now the between-turn camera pan-across is... I wouldn't say jarring, but overly showy. It's certainly gotten a lot more flair since the days of bare-bones historical sims.
Also I always thought of Morathi as being more wizened... that was not so.
5 second loading times...
Post by: Teneb on September 29, 2017, 04:09:14 pm
It's apparently from a Make a Wish request. Pretty cool.
Post by: Fewah on September 29, 2017, 05:39:25 pm
I went from about 30-45 on High on the first one.
Now I'm down to 20-30 on High and 20-25 on Campaign map?
The hell is going on.
Post by: Teneb on September 29, 2017, 06:08:49 pm
Has anyone lost a bit of FPS in Total War 2?The graphics improved a little. I don't notice because I tend to set the graphics options lower than what my computer can actually run so it loads faster (and before Umiman starts waxing about the SSD load times, I have only now got a job and as such am still unable to actually go out and buy one that is not hilariously tiny).
I went from about 30-45 on High on the first one.
Now I'm down to 20-30 on High and 20-25 on Campaign map?
The hell is going on.
I am really liking Dark Elves, as an aside. Vortexes are also decent now. I killed a lot of skaven with a single Bladewind from Malekith.
Post by: umiman on September 29, 2017, 07:08:03 pm
I wish they still explained exactly how the spells worked though. But whatever, at least mages are actually strong in this. Even the early tier spells feel really strong too. Spammable and useful. Malekith can spam his cone spell endlessly and it racks up so many kills.
Post by: Teneb on September 29, 2017, 08:06:09 pm
Recruiting troops with Malekith is bad because he does the most obnoxious shout.
Pre-quest battle objectives are pretty nice and don't invole either near-impossible tasks (Befriend Nordland for the Runefang! What's that? Nordland hates you? Not my problem! Oh, and also walk all the way to the southern Badlands and back.), at least for the early items (which makes sense).
Malekith makes upkeep costs a joke for his army.
The game actually loads faster. Then again, it may be the lack of mods.
The new end turn is great. It actually informs you about what the AI is doing without being annoying or too fast.
The Everchariot lives!
Spoiler: Source: Reddit (click to show/hide)
Post by: lordcooper on September 30, 2017, 04:11:02 am
Post by: Mech#4 on September 30, 2017, 05:07:06 am
Myself, I do often see it as more either I take cavalry or chariots. Looking at the High Elf Tiranoc Chariot it's got 55 Charge Bonus from the Silver Helms 52 while the Ithilmar Chariot has 70 and the Dragon Princes have 80. I don't really count their ranged damage since it's only 2 archers per chariot, though the Tiranoc Chariot fires 3 arrows per shot.
Spoiler: Some other things I've noticed in my campaign (click to show/hide)
Other than that, I really like how dense the forests are compared to Warhammer 1. I wonder, when they add the blood pack, whether High Elves will have blood splattering them. I kind of feel like they shouldn't. Being dirty is beneath a High Elf and all that.
Edit: It seems like the Vampire Counts might've gotten a new building chain. I've seen in some capitals held by them a building called "Awakened Battlefield" (Al Haikk being one I've seen it in). It reduces movement by -15% for enemy armies starting in their province, increases attrition by 50%, reduces Raise Dead cost by -30% and enemy hero success by -10% as well as providing some garrison units.
Post by: scriver on September 30, 2017, 05:17:14 am
It's apparently from a Make a Wish request. Pretty cool.
Confederation time!
Post by: Tack on September 30, 2017, 11:23:08 pm
Which was saddening but understandable.
If you guys haven't seen it, you need to see how the Grey Seer rides the Screaming Bell. It's frigging hilarious.Agree.
For those not in the know, it's standing atop the side of the bell, a triumphant pose on the upswing and a frantic scrabble on the downswing.
Makes me wonder how much the skaven would be muffling his own bell though. Haven't really been in contact with any great bells though so I don't know if a humanoid can stifle that much reverberation.
Post by: umiman on October 01, 2017, 01:18:34 am
Makes me wonder how much the skaven would be muffling his own bell though. Haven't really been in contact with any great bells though so I don't know if a humanoid can stifle that much reverberation.https://clips.twitch.tv/HeadstrongAcceptableSashimiDerp
------
I'm really enjoying this Dark Elf campaign. There's so much shit to do. I haven't even left this beginning... continent yet and I've already fought Chaos, Norsca, Skaven, Lizardmen, Dark Elves, High Elves, and Greenskins.
I really enjoy their army setup, where they're kinda defensive but at the same time have really shitty defensive stats (at the start). Rather they're really killy. Units like the Assassin with his donkeyballs 1000 ranged damage. I've noticed all my melee troops are only there to buy time for my Darkshards to roflstomp everything. Their cavalry options are kinda derpy though. They're useful, but they don't really win anything by themselves.
Malekith is so bleeding strong. They just made magic so damn much more powerful now, so Malekith simply owns. He's a great melee lord and has at his disposal a really brutal magic lore that just wrecks everything. And the dragon too.
I love the Black Arks. It's glorious having a really versatile staging platform that lets you recruit everything you need in a large AOE. Also those naval bombardments... Good times. Just park them in a nice place and wreck everything.
I love all the new skill trees as well as the general naming system. I'm so intimately familiar with each of my generals now. I have Malekith, who wrecks everything solo. Then I have this warrior girl who's been on crusade against the forces of Chaos for so long she's gone insane. Her name is Beastslayer and she buffs her baseline troops a shittonne. And my last guy is a crossbow + sword general. The guy is pretty worthless in a fight despite me maxing his yellow line but his army is the cornerstone of the defense. He doesn't really do anything by himself but the Death Hag in his army owns. The guy's name is Greeneye and he gives a boost to my entire faction's economy. In my mind he's the idiot noble who's completely worthless on his own and gets carried through all his problems by his way more competent retainers. All three of these have been in really pitched battles and come out on top despite all the odds, mostly because Darkshards are so stupidly powerful. Shades are even scarier, but those are like triple the upkeep cost.
They've really gone one level up with the traits now. They're so much better and we get some really cool traits now. Big powerful ones that affect your entire faction and all that jazz. I have a sorceress who gives my entire faction +5 winds of magic and every enemy faction -5. I bet they stack if I end up with more than one. Also it's nice that they finally tell you what gives you what traits as well as how to improve / get rid of them. My aforementioned insane general got the insane trait from hanging around in Chaos way too long. To get rid of it, I need to move her back into "civilized" land for an extended period of time.
Oh my god province management is so much better now. I swear the game is way more fun when you're not artificially constrained by such restrictive build slots. With the increased building slots, it's so much more flexible. I like the new climate system too. I've noticed they also have a mechanic for the Dark Elves where if you try to build outside of your home area, your settlement types are considered Outposts instead of regular settlements, so you have slightly limited construction options. Slightly. Like, no walls for minor settlements and things like that. But at least now you can personally decide if you want to hold specific places or not. So if you really want to hold a town where your race can barely survive in, you can actually do it, but you gotta take the penalty. I think it makes for more organic gameplay.
I think they significantly buffed trade as a whole. Trade resource buildings give way more stuff now and trade seems way more profitable in general. That's nice.
And on that economic front, I especially enjoyed how you start with way more money now. You can basically immediately fund a second army. Makes the game so much more fun at the start as you're not stuck with just the one guy scrimping all your cash.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 01, 2017, 02:27:40 am
I've also noticed that heroes don't need to be deployed in provinces now. They automatically cause their effects when present.
Another change to spells is apparently the Burning Head spell is now a wind spell.
Here's a thread with stat changes people have noticed for Warhammer 1 factions. Subject to change until the Mortal Empires campaign is released I would assume. One thing of note is an increase in range for the Hellblaster to 300 from 230. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/201979/warhammer-2-changes-to-wh1-races/p1)
Post by: Majestic7 on October 01, 2017, 04:56:33 am
Lacking settlement trading is still extremely annoying, as sometimes I'd like to buff my minions or get province whole peacefully.
While Warhamster 2 is fun, I can't help but feel there is a sort of two steps forward, one step backward going on with TW games. It is irritating.
Post by: thvaz on October 01, 2017, 02:13:36 pm
In hard campaigns these issues are less apparent. Immersion is such a big deal to me.
Post by: Tack on October 01, 2017, 07:58:56 pm
That might be because despite decent expansion I never got up to the super-gimmicky first ritual anyway.
Post by: umiman on October 02, 2017, 02:09:46 am
I don't even really understand why they are that strong, their stats don't seem all that good.
I just had one unit of Dread Knights solo a unit of High Elf Dragon Princes and a Star Dragon (!!!) at the same time and they won. Straight up kicked their asses with about 50% of the dinosaurs remaining. I have no idea how they did it. The Dread Knights only have armour piercing too and not anti-large whereas the Dragon Princes have both. I think the Star Dragon has both too.
Really no idea how they won. As far as I'm aware they didn't even have any buffs. I need to test it a bit more to see if it wasn't just a fluke.
Post by: Tack on October 02, 2017, 02:14:38 pm
Speaking of, intervention armies are confusing me. I've had three Skaven armies called down on me during one ritual, so is it all major and minor factions can chip one in each or does the CPU just cheat?
Post by: umiman on October 02, 2017, 02:24:36 pm
I had two units of dread knights attempt to take on a single moon dragon and fail miserably- however that was on VH.The Unknown Clan Skaven are just random spawns like the Norscan ones.
Speaking of, intervention armies are confusing me. I've had three Skaven armies called down on me during one ritual, so is it all major and minor factions can chip one in each or does the CPU just cheat?
Post by: lordcooper on October 02, 2017, 02:29:45 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on October 02, 2017, 03:08:09 pm
* This is likely caused by Skaven sucking in auto-resolve.
Post by: Tack on October 02, 2017, 10:30:21 pm
Skaven are about to win the game but I took Ulthuan so all is ok.
Post by: umiman on October 03, 2017, 02:10:53 am
Post by: Tack on October 03, 2017, 03:16:05 am
A similar story playing as Pestilens on legendary and preferring to ally with Spittle rather than take their ritual site out from under them so that I have some chance of standing up to Itza.
Speaking of Itza- Wow what a garrison army.
Post by: umiman on October 03, 2017, 10:53:43 am
I dunno, as Dark Elves it took me an alarmingly long time to decide to war against Hag Graef, so I never actually had a ritual resource site until quite late.No you can't. If the enemy competes the final ritual before you, you'll be tossed into a battle where it's you and all the remaining major races vs whatever army the enemy is using. It's a cakewalk no matter your difficulty.
A similar story playing as Pestilens on legendary and preferring to ally with Spittle rather than take their ritual site out from under them so that I have some chance of standing up to Itza.
Speaking of Itza- Wow what a garrison army.
The optimal strategy in the game on legendary difficulty right now is to just delay anything related to the ritual until the end. There's no penalty in doing so.
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 03, 2017, 11:45:59 am
Granted, these were low-level norse hounds+marauders+horsemen+chariots, but still.
Post by: umiman on October 03, 2017, 11:57:44 am
Holy smokes, the Dark Conduit army ability you get from DE's ritual is crazy. I've had Malekith literally solo two armies using only it, and blade wind.You mean that mini explosion thing that centers around one of your units?
Granted, these were low-level norse hounds+marauders+horsemen+chariots, but still.
Yeah, that thing is nuts.
When I have it I usually send out a hero unit into the middle of the enemy. Then use all their skills immediately as the spell puts an extra 90 seconds on everything in cooldown. Then kaboom. It has a lot of drawbacks though. The 90 seconds thing really hurts if you use it on a caster. Also it removes all vitality or whatever it's called on that unit and makes them 100% tired, cutting their combat stats dramatically.
I only noticed how insane it was when I first started the DE campaign and was sieging an enemy city. My uh... whatever those halberd units are called were one shot by that skill. My most powerful and expensive unit that Malekith starts with completely wiped by some no name faction.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on October 03, 2017, 04:40:57 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 04, 2017, 01:56:31 am
I have won.
And damn was that a fun fight, it really felt like you carried the power of the Vortex in your hands, and that even that thin taste of the true might Caledor Dragontamer kept at bay was army-sundering.
I brought Tyrion, a Loremaster, a Star Dragon, 2 Eagle Claw's, 8 Loremasters of Hoeth, and 7 Archers with Light armor.
I came out with all of them, if not unscathed, intact.
Now, to work upon the great plan, as a big fat Slaan.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 04, 2017, 07:04:11 am
Weird how playing TWW2 makes me play Man'o'War and CKII Warhamster mod as well.
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 04, 2017, 07:34:41 am
So, yeah, don't be afraid to use them in combat.
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2017, 07:37:39 am
Ever time Ulthuan hits my Arks they go down in flames.
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 04, 2017, 08:09:16 am
Post by: Puzzlemaker on October 04, 2017, 09:03:17 am
I didn't know about the armies that spawned whenever you did a ritual, so that took me by surprise. Two of my ritual cities were razed, and I didn't have enough money to colonize them... until I won a crux victory against the armies that razed my city, ransomed them and used that money to recolonize on the turn the ritual was over (!).
I found out that even if you lose the race you just have to win a quest battle to negate victory, which seemed silly to me, so I made a personal challenge to not let any other races win. I ended up sending two full stacks to the high elves to take their capital, while the intervention armies burned another one of their cities. They did a pretty smart move and seiged the capital, trapping one army inside while they curbstomped the other. I knew I would lose, so my whole goal was to do enough damage to delay them. In the end I managed to delay and damage their armies enough that they couldn't take on the intervention armies and retake their ritual city until after the ritual was done, allowing me to finish mine and win the campaign.
That was the most fun I have had in a total war game to date. Really enjoyed it.
Post by: Ghazkull on October 04, 2017, 10:37:24 am
Post by: nenjin on October 04, 2017, 10:49:15 am
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2017, 10:57:24 am
That being said, when the Mortal Realms map comes out all bets are off- although sailing from Naggaroth to Tilea would probably be a heck of an enterprise.
Also very curious about how they're going to deal with Khemri's incredibly unusual placement when they make a big map. Are they going to pop it back over or just roll with it?
Post by: scriver on October 04, 2017, 11:01:20 am
So is TW:WH1 worth trying now that 2 is out? Does TW:WH1 do anything standout that makes it worth playing, or is 2 just an upgrade from it?
Well 1 let's you play empire, vampire undead, orxs, and dwarves (and with DLC Wood Elves, Breton, variant dwarves, Beastmen, Chaos, and Norsca). I don't think you get to play as any of those in 2 (at least not until DLC hit, maybe).
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2017, 11:16:39 am
Really makes it hard to compete with a monster mash list- probably why VC's trumped WH1 in the ranked lists. I get that anti-monsters like skinwolves are neat, and I'll probably love Ironguts when OK comes out, but it is pretty annoying having to blow my whole strategy out of the water because "ohfuck bastilodon".
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 12:19:40 pm
Also, not sure if it's just me but I am getting really sick of having no "charge defense vs huge" units. I love that I can nail a dumb cavalry charge, but chariots or monsters blow straight through into the back of my lines no matter how insane my halberds are.Brets are free
Really makes it hard to compete with a monster mash list- probably why VC's trumped WH1 in the ranked lists. I get that anti-monsters like skinwolves are neat, and I'll probably love Ironguts when OK comes out, but it is pretty annoying having to blow my whole strategy out of the water because "ohfuck bastilodon".
Post by: umiman on October 04, 2017, 12:32:44 pm
So is TW:WH1 worth trying now that 2 is out? Does TW:WH1 do anything standout that makes it worth playing, or is 2 just an upgrade from it?TW:WH1 has more stuff.
This one is spiffier but more bugs and less stuff. Also the first game has more standard races (like humans). This one is quirkier. Though I'm sure the third game will be even quirkier still as that's like... just freakshows.
I think the campaign in the second one is better though but there are some UI decisions and bugs that really bug me.
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2017, 12:44:12 pm
Blood Knights do it better, if you're talking about using cavalry anti-monsters.Also, not sure if it's just me but I am getting really sick of having no "charge defense vs huge" units..
Brets are free
But because monsters are kind of the bulwark an army forms around, and cavalry are the weaker flanking force which exists for back-charging, counter-cav and ranged harassment, the only way they'll poke monsters is if you charge into the centre of their army before the clash or charge straight through the back of your own pikes during.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 04, 2017, 01:07:14 pm
Post by: scriver on October 04, 2017, 01:18:13 pm
Post by: umiman on October 04, 2017, 01:34:19 pm
I rage-quit Bretonnia after like the second battle. I have no idea how to play them, their only good units are cavalry but if you build your army around those then you can't actually perform hammer and anvil tactics because your infantry is so pissy it will fold before you even get the cavalry in a flanking position.How to play Bretonnia:
1. Build farms fucking everywhere with those windmills and shit for unlimited money
2. Conquer Marienberg and every port you can find for more unlimited money
3. Infantry? What is that?
4. Build only cavalry. Maybe flying if you're feeling fancy.
5. Charge!
6. If enemy not dead, repeat #5
7. If enemy brought anti-large, write stern letter about balancing to GW and CA.
8. Then send in the Hippogryphs.
9. Upgrade Leon to max level with his regeneration and shit, then send him to solo entire armies as the single most powerful melee lord in the game.
-------------
In all seriousness, they're kinda tough to play. Their armies revolve around specific units that buff morale. Stuff like the Grail Reliquae and heroes to make sure your front line doesn't run the fuck away constantly.
Bretonnia is one of those armies where you actually want to get morale buffs as your lord's bonuses to make sure your army isn't worthless.
But if you don't like the faction, the best thing to do is just play a faction you actually like. I don't really like Bretonnia either.
Post by: scriver on October 04, 2017, 01:44:33 pm
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2017, 01:53:44 pm
If the enemy have spearmen, peasant bowmen and yeoman archers are the fix.
If the enemy bring spearmen with shields, that's the only real use for your infantry. Since they introduced foot squires and battle pilgrims it became much better though.
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 02:02:10 pm
In the end I just made full stacks of Knights of the Realm and charged everyone in their unchivalrous faces.
Post by: umiman on October 04, 2017, 02:06:38 pm
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2017, 02:34:11 pm
Unbreakable and frenzy and DR when losing = Rude
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 02:47:05 pm
In MP, most people use Battle Pilgrims as their front line troops. They're not very good but have tonnes of morale.You mean infinite morale?
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 04, 2017, 03:20:50 pm
I dunno if this is the ideal Bretonnian tactic, but it worked. Except against Wood Elves. If you play Bretonnia, you will learn to hate their poncy tree-loving faces as much as I do.
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2017, 03:25:01 pm
Fuck trying to actually fight them as Bretonnia in their home though.
Post by: thvaz on October 04, 2017, 04:12:09 pm
I went pretty micro-heavy on my Bretonnia run. If wielding only cavalry: split your forces in 3-4 groups, bait, harass and split enemy while hit-n-running constantly. The AI is pretty easy to mess with. If wielding infantry too, do all you can to keep the enemy from actually reaching them, hammer-and-anvil if this fails. Foot Squires and Battle Pilgrims are good enough infantry, melee heroes very valuable there. Flying units are great and sneaky but more fragile than you might expect. Trebuchets are lovely too.
I dunno if this is the ideal Bretonnian tactic, but it worked. Except against Wood Elves. If you play Bretonnia, you will learn to hate their poncy tree-loving faces as much as I do.
Wood Elves are Brettonia counter. They just destroy Brettonia armies.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 05, 2017, 01:52:04 am
I found that wood elves never, ever leave Athel Loren when I play any of the Bretonnian factions. Why? I don't know, but I can be at war with them for over a hundred turns and leave my cities empty and they won't leave their magic forest.
Fuck trying to actually fight them as Bretonnia in their home though.
My experience of WEs is usually them burning the entirety of Bretonnia to the ground. My first go as Bordeaux ended at their hands. Second time (as regular Bretonnia), I invaded when they gave the slightest excuse. Still took like three different invasions and a lot of lost men. Razed Athel Loren looks pretty nifty when it's racked up full Chaos corruption by the endgame, btw.
Post by: Tack on October 05, 2017, 02:11:02 am
... plus they're weighted awfully in auto-resolve so I could just palm it all off.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 05, 2017, 04:34:31 am
I just had an event while playing as Skaven that a scribe had written and copied thousands of papers with an image of a naked, beardless Dwarf and posted them all over the Under-Empire. All the Clanrats are laughing at the image of "Nudey No-Beard" and my armies get a +16 Leadership vs Dwarfs for 4 turns.
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2017, 10:27:45 am
And already work is being done to allow us to
(And grab this (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1158792601&searchtext=) if you want to play as Malekith. Otherwise Morathi will ruin everything with her corruption when you confederate)
Post by: Tack on October 05, 2017, 11:19:31 am
Morahi's capital has her anti-corruption landmark.
Mods are unnecessary cheapening.
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2017, 11:32:59 am
WOAH WOAH WOAH.The problem is not Morathi corrupting. It's when you confederate with her as Malekith. She keeps spreading corruption despite the fact that Malekith's boys don't have resistance to it. The mod only works for Malekith.
Morahi's capital has her anti-corruption landmark.
Mods are unnecessary cheapening.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 05, 2017, 11:58:05 am
Post by: Tack on October 05, 2017, 12:40:25 pm
It's 5 chaos. Bad, but not instantly attrition -causing.WOAH WOAH WOAH.The problem is not Morathi corrupting. It's when you confederate with her as Malekith. She keeps spreading corruption despite the fact that Malekith's boys don't have resistance to it. The mod only works for Malekith.
Morahi's capital has her anti-corruption landmark.
Mods are unnecessary cheapening.
And when you confederate you get the landmark so no public order penalties.
Post by: umiman on October 05, 2017, 12:45:45 pm
Practically the entire upper half of Lustria is 100% Chaos in my game. If I confederated with Morathi I wouldn't be able to move anywhere.It's 5 chaos. Bad, but not instantly attrition -causing.WOAH WOAH WOAH.The problem is not Morathi corrupting. It's when you confederate with her as Malekith. She keeps spreading corruption despite the fact that Malekith's boys don't have resistance to it. The mod only works for Malekith.
Morahi's capital has her anti-corruption landmark.
Mods are unnecessary cheapening.
And when you confederate you get the landmark so no public order penalties.
So yeah, I would totally use that mod.
Besides, it's a mod. Nothing is forcing you to use it if you disagree with it. The fact that it exists means someone else thinks it's an issue. The fact that it's one of the top mods means a lot of people think it's an issue. In fact, it's even considered a bug on the official forums and the subreddit.
Post by: Tack on October 05, 2017, 12:51:53 pm
Pride is at stake! Pride and 'chievs!
Post by: umiman on October 05, 2017, 12:54:40 pm
Yes, but if I win a game without using that mod I don't want to be seen as equal to those who do.Don't worry. You aren't.
Pride is at stake! Pride and 'chievs!
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2017, 05:54:34 pm
I like the new events.
Post by: umiman on October 05, 2017, 11:42:40 pm
Or when you highlight a hero character next to Malekith, he goes on about how evil they are.
Or when you're invading Ulthuan, all your agents and generals are just constantly flaming the Asur.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 06, 2017, 12:24:11 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 06, 2017, 05:31:45 am
At least they have a 28 charge bonus.
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2017, 05:39:29 am
Malekith also very, very rarely says how he hates snow. I was expecting a follow up about how it's cold and gets everywhere for the full SW prequel meme, but alas.
Well that's fucking annoying, not only do Blessed Temple Guard count as Saurus for perks, getting only +6 Armor in a trade for +8 Melee Defense perk-wise, they don't get the tech-buffs of either.I suspect it's a bug.
At least they have a 28 charge bonus.
Post by: thvaz on October 06, 2017, 07:05:53 am
Post by: Cruxador on October 06, 2017, 08:40:28 am
Also found that battles aren't quite so often a foregone conclusion that I just autocalc, largely because of the greater prominence of scripted fights.
However, I'm not yet good at the game. I don't even really know how to use heroes or diplomacy. Maybe it's UI but I just can't find a lot of useful options for them.
Post by: umiman on October 06, 2017, 09:53:33 am
Even found myself getting attached to the random lord I had in charge of beating off the pleasure cult.Just one guy? No wonder he died.
Post by: umiman on October 06, 2017, 02:04:41 pm
Ratling guns baby!!!! (http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1158888211&searchtext=)
Post by: Teneb on October 07, 2017, 11:02:19 pm
Battle teleports also only cost 500 now.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 08, 2017, 02:17:10 am
+30 Leadership versus Chaos, Norscans, Skaven, and Beastmen, +10 Leadership all else, FACTIONWIDE, +10 HE/Lizardmen relations, +5 Untainted All Characters.
And another building of "Just" +100 Plants for trade, +10 Growth and +5% Replenishment, FACTIONWIDE.
And it's a Faction Capital tier settlement like Lothern and Hexoatl and Naggarond.
That was worth 150k gold.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 08, 2017, 04:58:19 am
Post by: Tack on October 08, 2017, 05:46:41 am
Seems like a shitty exploit that only I should be able to do.
Post by: Teneb on October 08, 2017, 08:20:22 am
So. I'm finding it incredibly annoying that the AI seems to love sidestepping alliances by "being invited" into war by complete strangers.This actually reminds me of something that happened yesterday. Surtha Knutson of the Alghol initiates diplomacy... to ask me if they can give me 500 and join one of my current wars. Because Khorne told him to, according to his little dialogue. Beyond my comprehension indeed.
Seems like a shitty exploit that only I should be able to do.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 08, 2017, 10:48:15 am
Post by: Tack on October 08, 2017, 12:07:00 pm
I thought that was an engineer thing.
Post by: thvaz on October 08, 2017, 02:08:06 pm
Post by: umiman on October 08, 2017, 02:33:06 pm
Playing as Krok Gar and I have some serious undead infestation in my capital province. No neighboring vampire provinces but the osmosis is at 29. Just had to change plans and attack the vampires in the north to see if I can get that number down.I'm surprised that Lizard + Vampire diplomacy didn't win the day there. Both sides are well known to be extremely eloquent speakers. Surely they could have come to a better compromise.
If I were a more cynical person I'd say that's some sort of fabricated excuse by the lizardman military industrial complex to illegally steal land from their neighbours. For shame. Tsk tsk.
Post by: thvaz on October 08, 2017, 04:21:47 pm
Playing as Krok Gar and I have some serious undead infestation in my capital province. No neighboring vampire provinces but the osmosis is at 29. Just had to change plans and attack the vampires in the north to see if I can get that number down.I'm surprised that Lizard + Vampire diplomacy didn't win the day there. Both sides are well known to be extremely eloquent speakers. Surely they could have come to a better compromise.
If I were a more cynical person I'd say that's some sort of fabricated excuse by the lizardman military industrial complex to illegally steal land from their neighbours. For shame. Tsk tsk.
I wasnt interested in expanding north that moment, with Queek attacking me from the other side, but I found out it was the black pyramid of Nagash that was raising vampiric corruption across many provinces.
Post by: Thexor on October 08, 2017, 06:20:18 pm
So. I'm finding it incredibly annoying that the AI seems to love sidestepping alliances by "being invited" into war by complete strangers.
Seems like a shitty exploit that only I should be able to do.
I found this hilarious, though that was mostly because it was used against me. Teclis had a defensive alliance with the majority of southern Lustria... and then he made the mistake of upgrading to a full-fledged military alliance with Xuanhupec. Who were total assholes, and immediately decided to break a non-aggression pact with me (which I paid 8000 gold for not 3 turns earlier, the jerks), dragging Teclis into war with me while leaving all his other 'allies' out of it. I get to claim all the ritual sites Teclis beelined, and I don't have to suppress the other half of the continent!
Post by: Mech#4 on October 08, 2017, 08:31:29 pm
Assassins can skitterleap?
I thought that was an engineer thing.
It is. I cast Skitterleap from one of my engineers onto the assassin. You can cast it on any unit, different from the tabletop where it was only infantry characters. Stalk and +25% speed Rat-Ogres?
Post by: Jopax on October 09, 2017, 05:29:46 am
Post by: umiman on October 10, 2017, 12:30:33 am
Be me. Dark Elves. No opposition remaining. Just have to press the button for the final ritual. Should be a piece of cake, have 3 armies defending all the ritual sites and a max upgraded Black Ark for cover fire.
Pressed the button.
Not a single Chaos army spawns. Not a single Beastman army spawns. Not a single Norscan army spawns.
Fucking. EIGHT. Full. Stacks. of Skaven spawn next to my capital.
Every single one of them attacks capital immediately.
Currently running the 150% large unit counts mod, so I'm facing 12000 rats... With barely 2000 defenders. Autoresolve results say "lol ur fuxked".
Fucking everything at my doorstep. 5 Doomwheels. 3 Abominations. All eight max level lords in their bells, mounts, whatever. Also coming along for the ride are 6 engineers / mages / assassins. Oh, and 12000 rats.
3 minutes in. Killed 3000 rats. It's not ending...
6 minutes in. My fucking front line is basically gone. Killed 6000 rats. They're coming from every single side. I have rats on every single wall. Every single door has been breached.
8 minutes in. I've resorted to using the artillery crew to help block the door breaches. Stopped counting kills, it never ends. Black Dragon has died to being swarmed by Clanspears.
HALP.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 10, 2017, 01:45:36 am
And let the rest of your stacks push in and slaughter the remnants.
Post by: umiman on October 10, 2017, 02:12:41 am
Die hard, good sir, die hard.Apparently I only lost to 4 stacks instead of 8. Since You can only have 4 stacks per side in a battle.
And let the rest of your stacks push in and slaughter the remnants.
So there are still around 20k rats running around a now razed Naggaroth.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 10, 2017, 02:30:54 am
See if you can pluck any hordes off. They may split up. Especially try and pay attention to the reinforcement arrows, so you can go for, oh, 2v3 fights in your favor.Die hard, good sir, die hard.Apparently I only lost to 4 stacks instead of 8. Since You can only have 4 stacks per side in a battle.
And let the rest of your stacks push in and slaughter the remnants.
So there are still around 20k rats running around a now razed Naggaroth.
It worked for me in MP in 1 when I went 4v4 with Chaos when they dropped seven stacks on my head as Brettonia and my friend was the Empire.
Post by: Tack on October 10, 2017, 02:51:44 am
It got attacked, two at a time, four times in a row over two turns.
Not completely fucked, but I had to play every single battle on the same map over and over again for a whole session.
Post by: Sindain on October 10, 2017, 08:17:28 am
Post by: Tack on October 10, 2017, 11:27:10 am
Had Tyrion parked outside of a Pheonix gate, but oops he got ambushed enjoy your 3v1 skaven fight. A hard lesson to be learning in legendary.
Post by: umiman on October 10, 2017, 12:39:02 pm
What is it now? Hours? Days?
Hopefully they stop putting this garbage into games now... Especially since it costs the big boys hundreds of thousands to implement.
--------
Does everyone get skaven too in the last ritual or was it just RNG?
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 10, 2017, 02:24:33 pm
Man, Denuvo really doesn't mean anything now.I think it's to reflect
What is it now? Hours? Days?
Hopefully they stop putting this garbage into games now... Especially since it costs the big boys hundreds of thousands to implement.
--------
Does everyone get skaven too in the last ritual or was it just RNG?
Spoiler: "The Twist" (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on October 10, 2017, 02:49:41 pm
I know the Elveses story in the end times and how that went but no idea what the lizzos or Skaven did and whether the vortex was involved.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 10, 2017, 04:44:33 pm
Just... gah. I think I'm gonna upload it and link it here, because gah.
I would've lost if they hadn't been retarded.
Highlights include: Chosen That Can't Run, Hellcannons Shooting Invisible Walls, The Most Indecisive Chaos Lord, and Bouncy The Spawn.
Post by: Thexor on October 11, 2017, 12:57:25 am
The resulting battle was, hands-down, the most intense battle I've fought in a Total War game. That's including the undermanned defense of Altdorf that ended with me cycle-charging crossbows and a mortar crew to take out an Orc Warboss in melee, with the capture point barely stable at 19 points remaining. That's including the time I got beaten by a Chaos army, they chased me down to finish me off, and Helman Ghorst pulled off the reversal to save himself and send the Chaos remnants packing. Highlights included Mazdamundi soloing a Hellpit Abom in melee, my Cold One Riders smacking 6 units off the field with a mere sliver of health, my four Temple Guard all hitting regen cap thanks to Revivification Crystal charges, and the moshpit that just would. not. end as their melee hordes fought my dinosaurs in the woods and still managed to not overwhelm me. I ended up losing my underleveled Scar Veteran to an early enrage, but otherwise managed to get out with no permanent losses... and wiped the three Skaven units in march stance at the same time.
By contrast, the final battle was a bit of a letdown, but luckily I had my real final battle a few turns earlier at the hands of the Unknown Skaven Clan.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 11, 2017, 04:45:37 am
Post by: umiman on October 11, 2017, 01:53:08 pm
So I was marching one of my stacks up from Lustria back to Naggarond to support against the end times invasion of rats when they were cut off by a low tier High Elf intervention force. It was a fairly simple fight in a particularly interesting map since we were fighting on an ice river with two forested hills on each side. After routing the elves with only 200 or so losses, immediately we were set on by a rogue skaven force.
Now this was fun, because it was an ambush battle. And this ambush battle took place on the exact same map. So it was like... my Dark Elf army was just finished packing up after killing the high elves when suddenly a mob of rats jumped them. That was just fun as fuck. Giant horde of rats sprinting at me from both sides of the ice river, like they were just waiting for the High Elves and Dark Elves to tire each other out. My army forced into a defensive line on the ice, while harpies bought time for the artillery to set up on the hills. Fecking good times.
I think I can safely say I've had more fun battles this entire campaign than any other campaign in any other Total War game. It beat even Attila in fun battles.
---------
Edit: incidentally, CA said the tentative release date for mortal empires is the 28th.
Post by: Tack on October 11, 2017, 07:32:19 pm
Araby.
Took them about eight turns to even make it to my shores. No idea what the heck happened there.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 11, 2017, 09:14:41 pm
Edit: incidentally, CA said the tentative release date for mortal empires is the 28th.
There's an image of part of the combined map (https://cdn.creative-assembly.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/11141455/TWWHII_ME.png) to go along with the blog post they uploaded explaining some things about the campaign. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/mortal-empires-with-ian-roxburgh)
The areas shown seem mostly the same. The old world doesn't seem any different with provinces, though of course Skavenblight is present. Ulthuan is pretty much the same thoguh some of the settlements on the eastern islands are not present as well as possibly the Glittering Tower south of Lothern.
Post by: Teneb on October 11, 2017, 09:19:00 pm
There's an image of part of the combined map (https://cdn.creative-assembly.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/11141455/TWWHII_ME.png)I'd like everyone to take a very good look at Lothern in that map.
Grudging intensifies.
Post by: umiman on October 11, 2017, 09:52:55 pm
Athel Loren has also been Bretonniad while Bretonnia has been Lotherned. The Empire got Dorfed.There's an image of part of the combined map (https://cdn.creative-assembly.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/11141455/TWWHII_ME.png)I'd like everyone to take a very good look at Lothern in that map.
Grudging intensifies.
The player is Bretonnia in that picture too and they have a military alliance with Lothern, that ate all their lands.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 12, 2017, 02:19:37 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwNmvwVgMFU
Does anyone know why the fuck this'd happen?
Post by: Tack on October 12, 2017, 04:11:31 am
That doesn't leave a lot of room for the entire empire to squeeze in north of Lothern.
Post by: umiman on October 12, 2017, 10:22:25 pm
Right, you made me think my ritual RNG spawned horde of Skaven was a plot thing. You guys thought I was referring to the event when you complete the rituals. Cause you guys seriously made me unprepared for the ACTUAL end game shit you were referring to. I actually moved all my stacks out of Naggarond after dealing with all fucking eight skaven stacks only to see...
ffs...
Post by: Tack on October 12, 2017, 10:38:32 pm
Post by: umiman on October 12, 2017, 10:49:16 pm
I don't get it. Eight more?Only 6 this time. The ones that come after the cutscene. I presume there's going to be even more after this too, as the final ritual is still only halfway done.
The problem is I thought the end game stack was done with since you guys were saying it was a scripted event, so I have nothing in Naggarond right now. This is quite problematic.
Post by: Tack on October 13, 2017, 01:25:09 am
Sorry if you were misled.
Post by: umiman on October 15, 2017, 05:06:55 am
Wasn't the intent of the rituals to make the game faster for campaign players if they didn't want to paint the map? The length seems kinda the same to me.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 15, 2017, 10:15:24 am
I have found my campaign games lasting longer than Warhammer 1. In the first one I tended to stop my games around turn 100 or when Chaos invaded since the Empire would be destroyed, the Greenskins would be beaten by the Dwarfs and Bretonnia razed by Beastmen. I'm sure this type of stuff will still happen in Warhammer 2 (I haven't played enough to notice any real patterns, one game Lizardmen were beating Dark Elves, another Pestilens is invading Ulthuan, Naggaroth and Araby) but the Ritual system allows a faction to still have some impact even if they've not expanded much due to interventions or completing rituals.
Post by: thvaz on October 15, 2017, 02:27:25 pm
Post by: umiman on October 15, 2017, 05:29:53 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Basically they chopped off the entire bottom 30% of the second map and the left hand bit.
The world looks really squished too. Oh well.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 17, 2017, 07:01:48 am
I may have gotten a Pyrrhic Victory out of it, but goddamn it felt like a Heroic one. Now to take revenge on those High Elf bastards who sent an intervention to burn down one of my cities...
Post by: Tack on October 17, 2017, 08:40:57 am
Still farming achievements, this time High Elves. Found trying for it post-game legendary to be pretty taxing, so started a new one on Easy and boy does it feel different.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 17, 2017, 10:26:12 am
Anyone know if there are mods fixing this? I presume no. CA isn't interested in fixing it before the Mortal Empires patch. Which is pretty shitty. It has killed my interest in the game.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 17, 2017, 10:44:57 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 17, 2017, 11:19:51 am
The units not pursuing enemies has been noted by Creative Assembly and I believe will be fixed in the patch next week.
Post by: umiman on October 17, 2017, 12:16:15 pm
There is that annoying bug where fighting/pursuing troops forget their orders and just stand still, doing nothing. Playing as high elves it didn't matter because with ranged army one hardly notices. Now that I started playing lizzies, it is utter shit. Especially against Skaven that break easily, troops I send to pursue then just forget pursuit and the rats regroup.There isn't a single Lizardman unit that can pursue Skaven troops. They're not fast enough.
Anyone know if there are mods fixing this? I presume no. CA isn't interested in fixing it before the Mortal Empires patch. Which is pretty shitty. It has killed my interest in the game.
Post by: Tack on October 17, 2017, 12:36:53 pm
Them stacking buffs tho.
Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation
Post by: umiman on October 17, 2017, 01:40:43 pm
Especially depleted and fleeing.Yeah, I don't even bother chasing down Skaven usually. Maybe at best send a mounted ranged unit to go within range.
Them stacking buffs tho.
Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation
Skaven are really scary to fight honestly. Their swarming ability is just fearsome as they come in such huge amounts. You chase them away for a short while then they come back again and again and again. Not to mention their ridiculous artillery and highest end troops do so goddamn much damage.
They're the only faction that can reliably kill units in my end-game Dark Elf stacks.
Post by: Teneb on October 17, 2017, 03:51:12 pm
You are obviously not using enough darkshards. If you think you are, you, sir, are a liar. For there is no such thing as enough darkshards.Especially depleted and fleeing.Yeah, I don't even bother chasing down Skaven usually. Maybe at best send a mounted ranged unit to go within range.
Them stacking buffs tho.
Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation
Skaven are really scary to fight honestly. Their swarming ability is just fearsome as they come in such huge amounts. You chase them away for a short while then they come back again and again and again. Not to mention their ridiculous artillery and highest end troops do so goddamn much damage.
They're the only faction that can reliably kill units in my end-game Dark Elf stacks.
Post by: umiman on October 17, 2017, 04:47:27 pm
I stopped using Darkshards once I saw how insane Shades were. No contest whatsoever.You are obviously not using enough darkshards. If you think you are, you, sir, are a liar. For there is no such thing as enough darkshards.Especially depleted and fleeing.Yeah, I don't even bother chasing down Skaven usually. Maybe at best send a mounted ranged unit to go within range.
Them stacking buffs tho.
Edit: Double edged sword makes it damned annoying trying to chase down enemy routers using healthy, eager forces.
So darned slow in the worst situation
Skaven are really scary to fight honestly. Their swarming ability is just fearsome as they come in such huge amounts. You chase them away for a short while then they come back again and again and again. Not to mention their ridiculous artillery and highest end troops do so goddamn much damage.
They're the only faction that can reliably kill units in my end-game Dark Elf stacks.
Post by: Hanslanda on October 18, 2017, 06:32:39 am
Post by: Sindain on October 18, 2017, 08:08:41 am
That being said, in the context of fighting Skaven "more darkshards" is pretty poor advice imo. Darkshards (and dark elven crossbows in general) main strength is excellent armor pen damage, which isn't that useful against Skaven.
Post by: Tack on October 18, 2017, 08:14:18 am
The reload speed on darkshards is sub-par compared to shades, but for the price i’d rather field two armies of the former.
Edit: Other notes of “not playing dark elves”- when i’m Fighting against them and they suddenly glow purple, i’m Way more afraid than when I was playing as them and had prowess proc.
Post by: OutOfManaException on October 18, 2017, 09:37:33 am
Post by: Majestic7 on October 18, 2017, 10:24:41 am
Lizzies seem to lack similar tools to cause mass rout or keep routed enemies fleeing.
Post by: umiman on October 18, 2017, 01:11:51 pm
I continued using darkshards heavily throughout the game. Shades aren't that much more killy at range and a lot more expensive. And they can't get shields.Allow me to correct some misinformation here.
That being said, in the context of fighting Skaven "more darkshards" is pretty poor advice imo. Darkshards (and dark elven crossbows in general) main strength is excellent armor pen damage, which isn't that useful against Skaven.
Quote
The DE Darkshard crossbow does almost all its damage in armour piercing (3 regular, 11 AP). That's basically true damage, so no mitigation. Each crossbow also shoots two bolts per shot, so double that amount. It reloads about 50% slower than a HE bow, but HE bows only do a puny amount of AP damage (16 regular, 3 AP). HE bows have longer range though.
Shades do even more AP damage and reload as fast as HE bows. So despite having 10 less men, they do WAY more damage in general.
The obscene amounts of AP damage they put out is the reason why they just melt everything, be it a dragon or a naked orc. This is the case with almost all their crossbows including the mounted ones and the Cold One Chariot.
Regular damage has no bonuses whatsoever. AP damage is just better against everything. Doesn't matter if it's a rat or a phoenix guard.
In testing that people have done, Shades can easily, EASILY, beat Darkshards w/ shields 1v2. The reload speed is a huge bonus as again, Shades fires as fast as two Darkshards. Not to mention Shades are practically guaranteed to get the first shot off due to stealth.
Not to mention Shades are actually amazing in melee. I believe right now they're considered overpowered in MP. In campaign it's a no brainer as you basically have unlimited money anyway, so their only limiting factor in cost is gone.
Using them reminds me of using US Marines in Fall of the Samurai.
Post by: Teneb on October 18, 2017, 01:15:46 pm
But Dark Elf crossbows be crazy.
Post by: Cruxador on October 18, 2017, 01:25:58 pm
The Total War appearance of Lizardmen troops is spot on.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sindain on October 18, 2017, 01:41:49 pm
I'll admit, my opinion on shades is based on general feelings from my campaign rather than anything objective, so I could be wrong about them. Though personaly I did not value their melee power at all, which is part of why I didn't like them that much.
But what I really want to address is your statement on ap damage. I know that normal damage isn't "better" against light armour, but in reality you're always trading something for the ap damage (unless the unit is op, like you claim shades are).
For example, using the numbers you provided HE bows have about the same firerate as DE crossbows, but with more total damage and much better range. So against a hypothetical 0 armour troop, the HE bow is just better than the crossbow.
Post by: Burnt Pies on October 18, 2017, 02:17:38 pm
I've done a bit of testing in MP. High Elf bow advantage is range and some reload speed. This doesn't matter much, as the Dark Elf repeater crossbow out-dpses them so hard that even taking a volley or two before being able to fire back doesn't prevent the Darkshards from utterly crushing the Archer unit. Plus, those are 55% block shields on the shielded Darkshards, so they can tank bowfire all day.
I'd be surprised if the Shade isn't the finest ranged unit in any army thus far. Fast reload on the most damaging and AP-focused ranged weapon in the game? Their sole weakness is range, and you can mitigate that in campaign anyway.
Post by: Tack on October 18, 2017, 02:30:03 pm
Post by: Burnt Pies on October 18, 2017, 02:35:39 pm
That said, the darkshards much lower range means that the shields are worthwhile regardless, as they will take at least one volley as they close the range to fire themselves.
Post by: Teneb on October 18, 2017, 02:45:53 pm
Really, the main strength of the darkshard (over the otherwise superior shade) is that you can get them from a tier 1 building.
Post by: umiman on October 18, 2017, 04:01:00 pm
In total war, shields have to physically block projectiles in order for them to apply their "block chance". This block chance will completely mitigate all the ranged projectile damage if it procs. The block chance is also determined by the size of the shield or something. I think you can see it by hovering over the unit's stats.
So yeah, if units don't hold out their shields, the shields don't do anything. Shields also don't do anything on the back or sides.
More info here: https://youtu.be/j5W8cGyjDh0
Post by: Tack on October 18, 2017, 04:03:39 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 20, 2017, 05:42:12 am
Also: Here's a trailer showcasing the Mortal Empires campaign. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTBXTDkJPiA)
Some of the finer detail, like how the regions down near Kroq-gar are layed out, can't be seen. You can see the province for Skavenblight, though I can't make one out for Hell Pit (it's assumed Hell Pit is present due to a building tree for the settlement being found. It should be about where the forest is in the Northern Oblast provine). It's interesting that no Skaven lord starts in Skavenblight, open for a future lord I assume.
I think Karak Zorn is present on the map, being at the end of the mountain passage in the Southlands World's Edge Mountains. There doesn't seem to be any other major changes, at least nothing that's leaping out at me.
You do get a good sense on how spread out the factions from Warhammer 2 are compared to Warhammer 1. Malakith and Tyrion are further apart than the Empire and the Greenskins.
@Tack: I don't believe they do. I have seen it mentioned that shields provide missile block in an arc in front of a unit, which I assume is making a distinction from the shields having to actually block a missile physically. So dwarfs carrying their shields on their left side don't block missiles thrown from their left, only from the front.
Post by: Cruxador on October 20, 2017, 03:41:17 pm
Post by: umiman on October 20, 2017, 04:41:41 pm
Gotta say, I don't much care for all the provinces they've omitted. I know that they're doing it for gameplay reasons and making the turn timer less slow, but when you're going for the big map, you want it to go all the way and be huge. I hope they at least don't hold back for the giant map for owners of the whole trilogy.Yeah. It feels wrong that they did that. There's a lot of things down there that they just wiped.
That being said, after I posted the info about them removing the stuff awhile back I've started to think that perhaps it's not the worst thing in the world. As long as every faction can fight each other organically, I honestly don't really mind. Considering the amount of work CA put into all the areas that were cut, I doubt they were all too happy to cut those places without a good reason for it.
Post by: Tack on October 20, 2017, 04:43:18 pm
Post by: thvaz on October 20, 2017, 05:11:53 pm
Well, I don’t yet see Norsca on there.
Different teams were working on Norsca DLC and TW:W2, they didn't have time to integrate them. It is coming shortly after the Mortal Empires update.
Post by: umiman on October 21, 2017, 03:08:38 pm
------------------
1. Saurus warriors are pretty frigging strong... I'm kinda curious to see if maybe they're the strongest tier-1 infantry in the game. I think they are. But I don't think they have a tier-2 infantry? Or maybe Saurus are Tier-2 and the Skinks are Tier-1. Either way, Lizardmen start with some damn good melee troops.
2. Fucking rats. So many fucking rats. My very first battle was the starting 600 or so Saurus vs 2000 rats. I thought I was screwed but it turns out it was pretty damn easy, because slaverats are beyond worthless.
3. My very first siege battle went like this:
- Sieged the city. City has an army garrisoning it. So around 5000 rats. Not that big of a deal for 1500 lizards.
- Enemy had a fullstack army outside the walls in stealth, and ambushed me.
- Now I was in an ambush battle vs three stacks. Fucking nutty-ass battle running all over the place.
- At the end of it, I checked the battle amounts and my 1500 lizards killed 8000 rats. Admittedly most were slaves though, but damn did it feel good.
4. Krok Gar sure gets a lot of ritual locations...
5. Man, Lizardmen are so goddamn slow. I think Dwarves are faster than them honestly. Or maybe the same. I suspect the Lizardmen are not going to have a good time in Athel Loren... Even against the Skaven I seriously can't be arsed to chase all the ranged troops around. It's impossible with their speed.
6. Lizardman ranged units suck dick. Why even bother with these javelins? They have like... no ammo and barely do anything. I know their siege dinos later are amazing but these early-game ones are trash-tier.
7. I love the Kroxigor crocodile roll.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Majestic7 on October 21, 2017, 03:16:37 pm
Of course, dinos and kroxigors and cold ones do it better, but if you have nothing else...
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 21, 2017, 03:22:11 pm
Post by: umiman on October 21, 2017, 03:28:34 pm
Skink javelins poison enemies and they have stats equal to skink melee dudes. So while they are not line infantry, they work as a flanking force. Go behind enemy, throw javelins, charge their back.Yeah, I saw they have the same stats as their regular melee guys. But then I saw the upkeep cost. And I saw the little teeny tiny upkeep cost difference (20g) between the javelins and the regular Saurus.
Of course, dinos and kroxigors and cold ones do it better, but if you have nothing else...
So I thought...
"Would I rather have a really low range, no damage, poison skirmisher with crappy melee stats and a tendency to poison my own troops at the same time as the enemy?"
"Or would I rather have more walking robot terminators with 60 armour?"
Choice was honestly pretty clear.
------------
Though I suspect since one of the upcoming DLC lords will obviously be that Skink dude who worships Sotek, then he would probably buff Skinks to be way stronger.
Incidentally, the whole poison friendly fire thing is the reason why I hate using ranged poison troops at all. It's so damn annoying since all it takes is one single projectile to land within your own blob for it to affect the entire blob.
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 21, 2017, 04:09:37 pm
But then I saw the upkeep cost. And I saw the little teeny tiny upkeep cost difference (20g) between the javelins and the regular Saurus.For Kroq Gar there isn't really much point in taking skinks, apart from maybe a couple to chase broken troops while you wait for higher-tier units to become available.
So I thought...
They have more raison d'etre when you start as the Slann lord. But after a while it's really just stegadons everywhere.
Also, Last Defenders is supposedly the harder start from the two, but I've felt it was the opposite. It's pretty much a corner of the map, so you don't have to deal with attacks from multiple sides, which horribly slows down Hexoatl. Kroq Gar can afford to keep just one army for a whole lot longer, and still keep up the offensive.
Post by: umiman on October 21, 2017, 04:23:08 pm
I agree. I'm playing on legendary and it's not particularly difficult here since the only enemy is some random Skaven. This area is really defensible and the elves and dwarfs love me.But then I saw the upkeep cost. And I saw the little teeny tiny upkeep cost difference (20g) between the javelins and the regular Saurus.For Kroq Gar there isn't really much point in taking skinks, apart from maybe a couple to chase broken troops while you wait for higher-tier units to become available.
So I thought...
They have more raison d'etre when you start as the Slann lord. But after a while it's really just stegadons everywhere.
Also, Last Defenders is supposedly the harder start from the two, but I've felt it was the opposite. It's pretty much a corner of the map, so you don't have to deal with attacks from multiple sides, which horribly slows down Hexoatl. Kroq Gar can afford to keep just one army for a whole lot longer, and still keep up the offensive.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 22, 2017, 10:49:16 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 25, 2017, 07:02:15 am
Some things to note is the fixing of units dropping orders, Morathi causing Chaos corruption after being confederated and Black Arcs no longer counting towards army upkeep penalty.
Spoiler: Full Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
The patch notes also mentions most of the new buildings that will be added to the first games factions. These include buildings like "Roads and Toll Gates" for the Empire, "Bugman's Brewery" for the Dwarfs in Karag Dromar, as well as the fact that Wood Elves will be able to fully colonize Lothern as well as a varient "Everqueen's Court" in the Gaean Vale in Avelorn.
Spoiler: New Building List (click to show/hide)
Some of these building are viewable in Warhammer 2, though whether they'll have the same effects I don't know. The "Awakened Battlefield" for the Vampire Counts gives increased attrition damage in that province and I think lowers raise dead cost currently.
Edit: A post has been made that covers some of the many changes that have been done to the base Warhammer 1 factions.
Spoiler: List of some of the changes (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on October 25, 2017, 01:02:36 pm
Quote
FIXED CA Cinematics Team’s obsession with slaying High Elves. May require further testing…
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Post by: Tack on October 25, 2017, 01:04:36 pm
Post by: umiman on October 25, 2017, 02:33:50 pm
Oh man, time to burn more elves. I'm just going to take my army of Dawi to Ulthuan and burn the whole thing. Maybe reduce Athel Loren to ash along the way. Then go kill the shitstain who started the whole War of the Beard in the first place.
Apparently CA will not have updated skill trees for the Old World lords on release (this includes those updated by the Norsca patch). That being said, some well known modders have said they'll have mods to patch the skill trees when it's released as it's pretty easy to do.
I'm curious if CA will ever make the Old World lords as awesome as the New World ones. All the NW lords have such great skilltrees in general. I hope they will. It's a lot easier to get invested in your generals when they're all unique.
Post by: Majestic7 on October 25, 2017, 04:52:49 pm
Post by: ZeroGravitas on October 26, 2017, 11:42:53 am
So Mortal Empires comes out later then?
isn't it out... today?
Post by: thvaz on October 26, 2017, 12:34:47 pm
I kinda lost interest in it after realizing the lord and RoR in Mortal Empires will not be up to date to the first game. The last LL's reworking, the new RoR and Norsca will all come in a later update.
Post by: umiman on October 26, 2017, 02:33:55 pm
Post by: umiman on October 28, 2017, 03:19:52 pm
Apparently people are saying Mortal Empires is completely bug-ridden and imbalanced? Like, the Chaos hordes are ridiculously overpowered and come in such huge numbers to specifically snipe you. Not to mention many of the bugs that were allegedly fixed were never fixed?
Either way, be aware for those of you playing it.
Post by: Teneb on October 28, 2017, 05:56:52 pm
Doublepost!Re: The Chaos Hordes. It seems that CA messed up and the ME WoC use the same AI as the Vortex ones. Which means they'll beeline for the player and ignore everyone else. They're pretty strong, but they were supposed to not discriminate in their attacks, so it balances out. Except that this is not happening.
Apparently people are saying Mortal Empires is completely bug-ridden and imbalanced? Like, the Chaos hordes are ridiculously overpowered and come in such huge numbers to specifically snipe you. Not to mention many of the bugs that were allegedly fixed were never fixed?
Either way, be aware for those of you playing it.
Post by: umiman on October 28, 2017, 06:34:11 pm
"pretty strong" (https://i.redd.it/q41kyboiskuz.png)Doublepost!Re: The Chaos Hordes. It seems that CA messed up and the ME WoC use the same AI as the Vortex ones. Which means they'll beeline for the player and ignore everyone else. They're pretty strong, but they were supposed to not discriminate in their attacks, so it balances out. Except that this is not happening.
Apparently people are saying Mortal Empires is completely bug-ridden and imbalanced? Like, the Chaos hordes are ridiculously overpowered and come in such huge numbers to specifically snipe you. Not to mention many of the bugs that were allegedly fixed were never fixed?
Either way, be aware for those of you playing it.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 28, 2017, 06:54:46 pm
Finally, they're actually putting up a good fight."pretty strong" (https://i.redd.it/q41kyboiskuz.png)Doublepost!Re: The Chaos Hordes. It seems that CA messed up and the ME WoC use the same AI as the Vortex ones. Which means they'll beeline for the player and ignore everyone else. They're pretty strong, but they were supposed to not discriminate in their attacks, so it balances out. Except that this is not happening.
Apparently people are saying Mortal Empires is completely bug-ridden and imbalanced? Like, the Chaos hordes are ridiculously overpowered and come in such huge numbers to specifically snipe you. Not to mention many of the bugs that were allegedly fixed were never fixed?
Either way, be aware for those of you playing it.
Took em long enough.
Come, Archaon! Come, Kholek! Come, Everwatcher! Come, Sigvald!
Come and show me what passes for fury amongst your misbegotten kind!
GIVE ME A FIGHT WORTHY OF THE EMPEROR'S GAZE!
Post by: umiman on October 28, 2017, 07:00:56 pm
That screenshot was from a guy's 40th turn btw. He only had one stack and crap-tier troops.Finally, they're actually putting up a good fight."pretty strong" (https://i.redd.it/q41kyboiskuz.png)Doublepost!Re: The Chaos Hordes. It seems that CA messed up and the ME WoC use the same AI as the Vortex ones. Which means they'll beeline for the player and ignore everyone else. They're pretty strong, but they were supposed to not discriminate in their attacks, so it balances out. Except that this is not happening.
Apparently people are saying Mortal Empires is completely bug-ridden and imbalanced? Like, the Chaos hordes are ridiculously overpowered and come in such huge numbers to specifically snipe you. Not to mention many of the bugs that were allegedly fixed were never fixed?
Either way, be aware for those of you playing it.
Took em long enough.
Come, Archaon! Come, Kholek! Come, Everwatcher! Come, Sigvald!
Come and show me what passes for fury amongst your misbegotten kind!
GIVE ME A FIGHT WORTHY OF THE EMPEROR'S GAZE!
You can read more about people bitching here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/79a7ri/extensively_playtested_eh/
And here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/79aab1/which_sex_dungeon_does_ca_recruit_its_playtesters/
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 28, 2017, 07:33:30 pm
Honestly, I am fine with those numbers so long as they fight everyone not just you.That screenshot was from a guy's 40th turn btw. He only had one stack and crap-tier troops.Finally, they're actually putting up a good fight."pretty strong" (https://i.redd.it/q41kyboiskuz.png)Doublepost!Re: The Chaos Hordes. It seems that CA messed up and the ME WoC use the same AI as the Vortex ones. Which means they'll beeline for the player and ignore everyone else. They're pretty strong, but they were supposed to not discriminate in their attacks, so it balances out. Except that this is not happening.
Apparently people are saying Mortal Empires is completely bug-ridden and imbalanced? Like, the Chaos hordes are ridiculously overpowered and come in such huge numbers to specifically snipe you. Not to mention many of the bugs that were allegedly fixed were never fixed?
Either way, be aware for those of you playing it.
Took em long enough.
Come, Archaon! Come, Kholek! Come, Everwatcher! Come, Sigvald!
Come and show me what passes for fury amongst your misbegotten kind!
GIVE ME A FIGHT WORTHY OF THE EMPEROR'S GAZE!
You can read more about people bitching here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/79a7ri/extensively_playtested_eh/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/79a7ri/extensively_playtested_eh/)
And here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/79aab1/which_sex_dungeon_does_ca_recruit_its_playtesters/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/79aab1/which_sex_dungeon_does_ca_recruit_its_playtesters/)
Turn that off, I am chiiilll.
Break on the walls of the Karaz Ankor, Everchosen, Suneater, Sarthoreal, The Magnificent.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 28, 2017, 10:28:48 pm
I've seen comments by Creative Assembly that they're looking into adjusting the invasion for the next update, which'll also include Norsca and the Warhammer 1 Lord skill tree changes. (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/792eri/bug_thread_for_ca/dp03ll4/?context=3)
Post by: thvaz on November 01, 2017, 10:34:36 am
Post by: Mech#4 on November 03, 2017, 10:58:25 am
The main changes to the Chaos invasion are:
1: Chaos will invade when the player grows to a certain size.
2: Chaos will no longer invade at a certain number of turns into a campaign.
3: The Chaos invasion spawns at war with most factions, except Chaos and Beastmen, splitting their focus away from the player.
4: Lizardmen and High Elves have been given the "Shield of Civilization" diplomatic trait. This'll encourage them to ally with the Empire, Dwarfs and Bretonnia against Chaos when they invade.
There is also a few other details in the hotfix, addressing some missing buildings, garrisons and the odd lighting in the unit porthole. Though, since this is a public test for the hotfix, I'm assuming there'll be more changes once the patch is released in full.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on November 03, 2017, 01:45:33 pm
I rage-quit Bretonnia after like the second battle. I have no idea how to play them, their only good units are cavalry but if you build your army around those then you can't actually perform hammer and anvil tactics because your infantry is so pissy it will fold before you even get the cavalry in a flanking position.How to play Bretonnia:
1. Build farms fucking everywhere with those windmills and shit for unlimited money
2. Conquer Marienberg and every port you can find for more unlimited money
3. Infantry? What is that?
4. Build only cavalry. Maybe flying if you're feeling fancy.
5. Charge!
6. If enemy not dead, repeat #5
7. If enemy brought anti-large, write stern letter about balancing to GW and CA.
8. Then send in the Hippogryphs.
9. Upgrade Leon to max level with his regeneration and shit, then send him to solo entire armies as the single most powerful melee lord in the game.
-------------
In all seriousness, they're kinda tough to play. Their armies revolve around specific units that buff morale. Stuff like the Grail Reliquae and heroes to make sure your front line doesn't run the fuck away constantly.
Bretonnia is one of those armies where you actually want to get morale buffs as your lord's bonuses to make sure your army isn't worthless.
But if you don't like the faction, the best thing to do is just play a faction you actually like. I don't really like Bretonnia either.
i only recently went back to TW1 and did a bretonnia campaign, having not really played since i did dwarves and VC games about a year ago
and uh yeah... it's a lot of cavalry. even my peasant levies are being used for... yeoman mounted infantry. the charging is very satisfying though, and apparently my main lord is capable of tying up 3-4 enemy infantry units at a time??
glad i read that post above about "WE counter bretonnia." having just conquered marienburg i was trying to figure out what direction to go in next (farther into empire, north to norsca, or se to fight WE).
Post by: Persus13 on November 06, 2017, 02:05:46 pm
Today this posted a ten second teaser (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVKiqnLor5E)which revealed the expansion to be for Rome II.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 07, 2017, 02:36:48 am
Post by: Tack on November 07, 2017, 04:22:43 am
Three Kingdoms wirefights confirmed.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2017, 10:37:16 am
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 08, 2017, 11:33:51 am
Since this is the closest to a general total war thread we got, here's the new dlc for Rome 2: Empire Divided (http://store.steampowered.com/app/694880/Total_War_ROME_II__Empire_Divided/)
Heh, I overlooked the Crisis of the Third Century because I thought the period wouldn’t have enough new/different stuff to make up a DLC. Heroic Factions sound like Warhammer’s Legendary Lords and their Quest missions. The rest doesn’t look too interesting, so I’ll give it a pass.
We have an old Rome 2 thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=112554.600) if someone wants to necro, though.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2017, 12:08:58 pm
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2017, 02:39:08 pm
---------
I've continued my Last Defenders game. After playing more of the Lizardman, here are more thoughts. Feel free to correct them.
1. My initial thoughts on Lizardmen ranged infantry have changed a bit. I still think they're trash, but they're pretty good at pissing off the enemy. I actually have skirmishers now instead of those 3 ammo javelin skinks and those guys have vanguard deployment. I had a battle against Queek in an underground map where I vanguard deployed three of them in front of his army. The Skaven then had to chase those skinks aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall the way back to me, taking damage the entire way without being able to catch them. Was quite hilarious.
2. Terradons are frigging amazing. I love these things. They're like discount gyrocopters. Completely useless in aerial fights but so goddamn annoying. Unlike trash like WE eagle bow riders or whatever they're called, these ones actually do damage. And they don't cost an arm and a leg to field. The flaming bolas are particularly great, easily getting 200 kills each battle. Provided they're not being chased around by bats or something. They're really good at sniping lords and heroes too.
3. Lore of Heavens is amazing now. Frigging wind blast owns. Chain lightning too, but that one can just fly all over the place. It frequently obliterates my own army. Comet is still trash though. The thunder bolt one is pretty bad too.
4. Did I say Lore of Heavens is amazing? What I meant to say was Lore of Beasts is incredible. Holy shit, I think they overbuffed this tree because it is absurd. Just Flock of Doom can obliterate armies. And overcast it only costs 10 mana. Each time you cast it, units take 1/3rd of their health in damage (but strangely it can't kill things, only drain health). So if you use 30 mana, you will blow up an entire army. It's crazy. The AOE is gigantic too. Then there's Wyssan's Wildform. Another ultra cheap, gigantic AOE spell that basically gives your entire army armour and damage. Who even needs Slann?
5. My continued observations on the insane strength of Saurus continues. I had a settlement defense where rebel Skaven were attacking a level 2 settlement. I basically only had 2 spear Saurus and some shitty Skinks. The Skinks ran instantly but the two spear Saurus routed about 1000 Skaven before finally falling to the Grey Seer. Frigging nutty. When I was fighting against the Wood Elves, it's the first time I've ever seen an infantry unit survive WE running out of arrows.
6. The game is a lot easier when you completely ignore the Vortex rituals. I should probably get around to doing them.
7. There's no Skaven any more in this game. My one single intervention army autoresolved Clan Pestilens into the ground. RIP. They're still running around. I think they're trying to go fight the Dark Elves. Curious if they'll make it.
8. I think I need a new processor. This aging but venerable i5 2500k can't handle this 150% unit size mod. But I can't play the game without it.
Post by: Persus13 on November 08, 2017, 04:14:09 pm
I'm curious why they updated Rome 2 instead of the vastly superior Atilla. Maybe it's more popular?It is more popular, but judging by what they've released so far, the standalone expansion in the works is from Attila.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2017, 04:59:33 pm
I'm looking forward to it. More Attila is always good.I'm curious why they updated Rome 2 instead of the vastly superior Atilla. Maybe it's more popular?It is more popular, but judging by what they've released so far, the standalone expansion in the works is from Attila.
I mean, fuck Attila and the Huns, both IRL and IG, but the game is superb. Fucking horse archers... Not even fucking horses. The Huns rode what were basically donkeys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_horse). Fucking donkey (https://youtu.be/i7-OrA7v34M?t=46s) archers.
Post by: thvaz on November 08, 2017, 05:18:17 pm
I'm looking forward to it. More Attila is always good.I'm curious why they updated Rome 2 instead of the vastly superior Atilla. Maybe it's more popular?It is more popular, but judging by what they've released so far, the standalone expansion in the works is from Attila.
I mean, fuck Attila and the Huns, both IRL and IG, but the game is superb. Fucking horse archers... Not even fucking horses. The Huns rode what were basically donkeys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_horse). Fucking donkey (https://youtu.be/i7-OrA7v34M?t=46s) archers.
I think you wanted to call them ponies, not donkeys. They are nothing like donkeys.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2017, 05:39:25 pm
I can call them whatever I want because they're cheesing lamers who make every fight super lame. So if I use poetic exaggeration to exemplify my point, know that in my superior omniscience I am aware they are actually a breed of horse but because they're so puny and small and stocky, I use an insulting term to refer to them despite it being factually incorrect.I'm looking forward to it. More Attila is always good.I'm curious why they updated Rome 2 instead of the vastly superior Atilla. Maybe it's more popular?It is more popular, but judging by what they've released so far, the standalone expansion in the works is from Attila.
I mean, fuck Attila and the Huns, both IRL and IG, but the game is superb. Fucking horse archers... Not even fucking horses. The Huns rode what were basically donkeys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_horse). Fucking donkey (https://youtu.be/i7-OrA7v34M?t=46s) archers.
I think you wanted to call them ponies, not donkeys. They are nothing like donkeys.
Edit: tl;dr: It's like when you call Richard Hammond a hamster, we understand that he's not actually a hamster. He's actually an American.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2017, 05:52:34 pm
I dunno, saying you were massacred by donkey archers seems more humiliating than (small) horse archers.I can call them whatever I want because they're cheesing lamers who make every fight super lame. So if I use poetic exaggeration to exemplify my point, know that in my superior omniscience I am aware they are actually a breed of horse but because they're so puny and small and stocky, I use an insulting term to refer to them despite it being factually incorrect.I'm looking forward to it. More Attila is always good.I'm curious why they updated Rome 2 instead of the vastly superior Atilla. Maybe it's more popular?It is more popular, but judging by what they've released so far, the standalone expansion in the works is from Attila.
I mean, fuck Attila and the Huns, both IRL and IG, but the game is superb. Fucking horse archers... Not even fucking horses. The Huns rode what were basically donkeys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_horse). Fucking donkey (https://youtu.be/i7-OrA7v34M?t=46s) archers.
I think you wanted to call them ponies, not donkeys. They are nothing like donkeys.
Edit: tl;dr: It's like when you call Richard Hammond a hamster, we understand that he's not actually a hamster. He's actually an American.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2017, 05:59:44 pm
I'm sorry Timferius. :(
Post by: Mech#4 on November 09, 2017, 09:26:22 pm
It's mentioned that you should start a new campaign to see the changes to the Chaos invasion.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 10, 2017, 02:16:26 am
Well, I forgot to get peace with Karak Norn, insignificant and one-settlement as they were. I’d just moved my only real armies in the south-east north. Karak Norn decides to invite the Dwarfs to join them in the war against me. Dwarfs are the #1 faction. I share a terrifyingly long border with them and they control everything south of Sylvania and east of it too.
The worst part is that Karak Norn itself immediately peaced out the next turn. The Imperial factions love me because of my war against Chaos and the +30 opinion boost from the Occupied Imperial Palace in Altdorf, the Wood Elves love me for fighting the Bretonnians so long, but there are now full stacks of Dwarf elite armies swarming into my poor undefended south. I can’t move armies back without giving ground elsewhere, but looks like I’ll have to. Damn you, Dwarfs, can’t you see I’m trying to save civilization (so I can corrupt it for myself, but still)?
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2017, 05:14:23 am
At least they can't spam RoRs any more.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 10, 2017, 11:49:35 am
Post by: Tack on November 10, 2017, 12:59:21 pm
Which kind of sucks when you're expecting doomrockets to nail enemy artillery and you get boneballs which are anti-infantry.
Post by: Bad_Goblin on November 13, 2017, 06:10:47 pm
The Dwarves are the true final enemy of all in Warhammer Total War
How fitting.
Post by: umiman on November 14, 2017, 02:05:33 pm
FAQ here: https://www.totalwar.com/blog/thrones-britannia-faq
The starting date is 878 and it has events all the way to 1066. I guess we know who the end game enemies are then. What a convenient end date.
Would this be the first time there are two completely separate end game enemies at the same time in a total war game?
Post by: Tack on November 15, 2017, 11:30:22 am
Post by: thvaz on November 25, 2017, 06:03:00 am
Post by: thvaz on December 05, 2017, 01:52:30 pm
Today CA released more info about the game state. The Reprisal update is set for this month, though it is not clear if the 30th Anniversary RoR are coming together (they arent in the beta). In January they will release a DLC (not announced, but it is Tomb Kings) and Norsca will arrive only in May. They said they had a lot of problems integrating Norsca into TW:W2.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 05, 2017, 09:19:28 pm
I believe it is mentioned in the blog post that the 30th Anniversary RoR are coming with the Norsca update, scheduled for May currently due to the extensive recoding they're having to do to impliment Norsca thoroughly.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on December 06, 2017, 05:43:31 am
Post by: Mech#4 on December 06, 2017, 05:53:05 am
I'm not sure what the free game mode could be. I'm thinking it'll be a variation of an existing mechanic rather than something completely new.
Post by: lordcooper on December 06, 2017, 03:11:24 pm
Post by: Cruxador on December 06, 2017, 04:50:08 pm
It’s refreshing to see a big dev team go into this kind of detail on why things aren’t working out. Wonder what the ’experimental free game mode’ is going to be.Ork Boys, I'm sure. Remember how well that worked for Eternal Crusade?
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 07, 2017, 02:10:02 am
>2 way battles make very little sense, both pragmatically and from a historical perspective. Why on earth would someone choose to fight two armies instead of getting in some relaxation and fighting one (now weakened) army with your own well rested one.WAAAAGHHHH?
Or favor of the gods, in the case of Chaos.
Can't think of any other factions, but there's probably some reason. 's not like this game is SUPER ULTRA LORE HARD after all.
Post by: umiman on December 07, 2017, 02:31:18 pm
Holy frigging shit.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 07, 2017, 04:13:52 pm
Post by: Digital Hellhound on December 08, 2017, 01:29:44 am
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on December 08, 2017, 02:13:11 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 14, 2017, 09:39:52 pm
Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
From a brief look over things, it appears that people are having better performance in the Laboratory than in normal battles or campaign battles. I've only fiddled with it a little bit but, what with the working with Intel over this, it seems like it might be utilizing cpu usage more effectively.
Post by: dennislp3 on December 15, 2017, 12:47:44 pm
The Laboratory battle mode is now available (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/209902/the-reprisal-update-and-the-laboratory-is-out-now/p1) as well as a small patch, called the Reprisal Update, (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/reprisal-update-final-patch-notes) that came along with it.Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
From a brief look over things, it appears that people are having better performance in the Laboratory than in normal battles or campaign battles. I've only fiddled with it a little bit but, what with the working with Intel over this, it seems like it might be utilizing cpu usage more effectively.
I am not sure what type or how much data they gather but I am guessing the labratory was an experiment all it's own for their benefit...they handed us a clip board and told us to fiddle with stuff and see what happens, meanwhile they have their own clip boards and are watching us behind a 2 way mirror.
That's not to accuse them of using us or dishonesty or anything...but it seems like a smart way to handle it...almost like machine learning...except instead of AI they just use tons of humans runnings large amounts of different iterations testing limits.
Post by: umiman on December 16, 2017, 03:19:51 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on December 16, 2017, 06:14:14 am
Post by: Mech#4 on December 16, 2017, 08:15:55 am
I do wonder what they're going to do about Lamia. I can't decide whether they would implement Neferata as a Vampire Count or Tomb King character, or perhaps implement her as her own faction. She's a Vampire Counts character but I feel she should have a Tomb Kings theme to her army.
I suspect Tomb Kings will be split between two major factions with 2 lords each. Settra the Imperishable and Queen Kalida on one side and Arkhan the Black and, I don't know, Prince Apophas (Undead guy made out of beetles) on the other perhaps?
Post by: Teneb on December 16, 2017, 09:13:48 am
I'm happy about Ushabti, they're one of my favorite looking units in Warhammer Fantasy.CA did mention that 4 LLs would be the norm since the mini-campaigns are not making a return. Settra and Khalida are obvious picks, as you said, though I don't know if they should be on the same side. Dunno about Arkhan, but I'll like it if we have him (however it will be silly if Settra can confederate with him).
I do wonder what they're going to do about Lamia. I can't decide whether they would implement Neferata as a Vampire Count or Tomb King character, or perhaps implement her as her own faction. She's a Vampire Counts character but I feel she should have a Tomb Kings theme to her army.
I suspect Tomb Kings will be split between two major factions with 2 lords each. Settra the Imperishable and Queen Kalida on one side and Arkhan the Black and, I don't know, Prince Apophas (Undead guy made out of beetles) on the other perhaps?
Decided to take a look at the rest of their named characters and we got the previously mentioned beetle-man Prince Apophas; there's also the necrotect Ramhotep the Visionary; Grand Hierophant Khatep to fill that caster lord slot if Arkhan doesn't make it; finally there's Settra's BFF/Bodyguard, Herald Nekaph. Not a lot of memorable skulls in that lot.
Post by: Tack on December 16, 2017, 09:30:21 am
Post by: Teneb on December 16, 2017, 09:39:26 am
To;dr on why those two are anathema?Arkhan is Nagash's only friend and apprentice. Nagash is responsible for turning Nehekara from super-prosperous, best WHF human realm, fantasy egypt into spoopy skeleton desert.
SETTRA! was pissed off because, when he was alive, the priests promised he'd return to life as a golden god-king, and not as a skeletor. Also because Nagash's pretty much destroyed his kingdom, considering he pretty much united and turned it into what it used to be.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 16, 2017, 09:53:40 am
Grand Hierophant Khatep was banished from Kemri by the awakened Settra the Imperishable to not return until he knew how to undo Nagash's undead spell and give the Tomb Kings the immortality they had been searching for (living immortality, not undead).
A bit more: In the End Times, Khatep returned to warn Settra about the resurrection of Nagash. Settra thanked him for the warning but then killed Khatep for breaking his banishment.
Ramhotep the Visionary is probably the most likely above Apophas. He has a focus on animated constructs which make up a good portion of the Tomb Kings armies. Ushabti, Necrosphynx and, I think, Bone Giants.
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 16, 2017, 10:11:05 am
Also, anyone noticed lower in-battle performance, fps-wise?
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 16, 2017, 01:02:20 pm
Nagash himself.
I mean, they put in Mazdamundi.
Post by: TD1 on December 16, 2017, 01:06:27 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 16, 2017, 04:58:14 pm
He give 50% Vampiric Corruption Resist.
To all forces.
It's silly.
Post by: dennislp3 on December 16, 2017, 10:45:07 pm
So if you're playing Mortal Empires, I suggest hunting down Mannfred with 2 different Lords.
He give 50% Vampiric Corruption Resist.
To all forces.
It's silly.
They should tone it down and make it all attrition or maybe at least vampire and chaos or something....getting that trait as the Von Carsteins is just pitiful and sad.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 16, 2017, 11:09:13 pm
Honestly Isabella has the best one.So if you're playing Mortal Empires, I suggest hunting down Mannfred with 2 different Lords.
He give 50% Vampiric Corruption Resist.
To all forces.
It's silly.
They should tone it down and make it all attrition or maybe at least vampire and chaos or something....getting that trait as the Von Carsteins is just pitiful and sad.
She gives regeneration.
Post by: Ludorum Rex on December 17, 2017, 08:19:21 am
Or they could go for the most Legendary lord possible.
Nagash himself.
I mean, they put in Mazdamundi.
Yeah, that would be an instant buy from me, no matter how buggy the expansion may be or how little time I actually end up having to play it. I do, however, insist that he is a given a very large hat. Otherwise I'll wait for the mod doing full justice to the Lord of Magnificent Headgear (and Undeath).
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ZWmPQvtOz8k/U-w0WuZxgTI/AAAAAAAACFU/yCGJzFnygGU/s1600/nagash%2B%281%29.jpg)
Post by: Mech#4 on December 17, 2017, 09:01:03 am
It would be funny if they added Nagash looking like his old model rather than the End Times one.
Post by: angelious on December 17, 2017, 09:05:27 am
I would like if they added characters like Nagash. Though maybe they could add them as a randomly chosen end game like sometimes your campaign would involve Archaon, other times Nagash. Like, having them all in at once would possibly be too much stuff going on for one campaign and the A.I. factions to cope. Drachenfels could be another end game threat.
It would be funny if they added Nagash looking like his old model rather than the End Times one.
pretty sure nagash will be the main villain in the third and last installment of the warhammer series.
Post by: scriver on December 17, 2017, 11:18:26 am
Honestly Isabella has the best one.So if you're playing Mortal Empires, I suggest hunting down Mannfred with 2 different Lords.
He give 50% Vampiric Corruption Resist.
To all forces.
It's silly.
They should tone it down and make it all attrition or maybe at least vampire and chaos or something....getting that trait as the Von Carsteins is just pitiful and sad.
She gives regeneration.
As somebody who doesn't have Mortal Empires.
What does this "gives" mean?
Post by: Burnt Pies on December 17, 2017, 11:28:10 am
Honestly Isabella has the best one.So if you're playing Mortal Empires, I suggest hunting down Mannfred with 2 different Lords.
He give 50% Vampiric Corruption Resist.
To all forces.
It's silly.
They should tone it down and make it all attrition or maybe at least vampire and chaos or something....getting that trait as the Von Carsteins is just pitiful and sad.
She gives regeneration.
As somebody who doesn't have Mortal Empires.
What does this "gives" mean?
Same effect as beating an LL with a Bret or Norscan lord in WH1. Any lord who defeats a legendary lord in battle gets a special trait from it. Kholek gives a bit of antilarge to the lord, Vlad gives much faster recovery from being wounded on the battlefield, Isabella gives regeneration to the lord. These traits are permanent.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 17, 2017, 06:55:40 pm
His is +10 Anti-Large!
Throgg?
+15 and 3% Weapon Strength on top of that.
Poor Suneater.
Post by: scriver on December 17, 2017, 07:53:29 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on December 17, 2017, 07:59:45 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 17, 2017, 08:10:47 pm
Do they have to defeat the Lord 1-on-1 or is it enough to just face him with an army?Smack with army.
Army vs army seems to be enough. It's wildly unbalanced though, some lords give you barely anything for beating them, others practically warp the game when you do. Beating Ungrim is basically worthless for example.Why, what's he give?
Play as Dorfs mostly, so he doesn't fight me much.
Post by: Teneb on December 18, 2017, 01:59:21 pm
Spoiler: Whatever could this be? (click to show/hide)
Obligatory soundtrack (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6-ZGAGcJrk)
Post by: lordcooper on December 18, 2017, 02:21:56 pm
Post by: scriver on December 18, 2017, 02:34:01 pm
Post by: umiman on December 18, 2017, 02:50:29 pm
Where will Chaos Dwarves fit into the current map? They're mostly east of the Warhammer 1 map, aren't they?They'll be part of the third game. The leaks from the first game imply they'll expand the Chaos Wastes and a bit of the East.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Settra will be joining that party soon and we'll all have to suffer the memery for it.
Post by: Grim Portent on December 18, 2017, 02:56:44 pm
Army vs army seems to be enough. It's wildly unbalanced though, some lords give you barely anything for beating them, others practically warp the game when you do. Beating Ungrim is basically worthless for example.Why, what's he give?
Play as Dorfs mostly, so he doesn't fight me much.
+5 melee attack, +5% magic resistance and +5% missile resistance.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 18, 2017, 03:22:38 pm
That's not bad for a fighty Lord, not amazing, but not bad.Army vs army seems to be enough. It's wildly unbalanced though, some lords give you barely anything for beating them, others practically warp the game when you do. Beating Ungrim is basically worthless for example.Why, what's he give?
Play as Dorfs mostly, so he doesn't fight me much.
+5 melee attack, +5% magic resistance and +5% missile resistance.
Post by: scriver on December 18, 2017, 03:24:27 pm
Where will Chaos Dwarves fit into the current map? They're mostly east of the Warhammer 1 map, aren't they?They'll be part of the third game. The leaks from the first game imply they'll expand the Chaos Wastes and a bit of the East.
AH. I'm taking it lordcooper was just joking around? I guess I'm in de nile by extension.
Post by: umiman on December 18, 2017, 03:30:13 pm
No one on this forum jokes around. This is not a place for jocularity.Where will Chaos Dwarves fit into the current map? They're mostly east of the Warhammer 1 map, aren't they?They'll be part of the third game. The leaks from the first game imply they'll expand the Chaos Wastes and a bit of the East.
AH. I'm taking it lordcooper was just joking around? I guess I'm in de nile by extension.
Post by: Teneb on December 18, 2017, 03:51:30 pm
EDIT: I wonder what the next DLC factions will be both for this and the next game, because there are no more TT factions available unless CA wants to do Daemons for this one. Araby is a likely candidate, but that's all I got.
Post by: lordcooper on December 18, 2017, 04:38:11 pm
Things I think are kinda likely: Kislev and Araby (no chance of this happening, but a combined
Things I want but don't consider likely: Dogs of War, Underworld (skaven + goblins), Nippon, Halflings (but they have to be shit by design)
Things neither I nor apparently CA give a toss about: Border Princes, Amazons
Post by: Teneb on December 18, 2017, 04:40:22 pm
Things I'd bet on seeing: Daemons of Chaos (possibly split into four), Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves (with fancy hats if there's any justice in the world)Underworld is just a Blood Bowl thing. Also Nippon is too far off, Cathay and Ind too, for that matter.
Things I think are kinda likely: Kislev and Araby (no chance of this happening, but a combinedice and firesand+snow pack would get them goodwill)
Things I want but don't consider likely: Dogs of War, Underworld (skaven + goblins), Nippon, Halflings (but they have to be shit by design)
Things neither I nor apparently CA give a toss about: Border Princes, Amazons
Post by: lordcooper on December 18, 2017, 04:42:35 pm
Things I'd bet on seeing: Daemons of Chaos (possibly split into four), Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves (with fancy hats if there's any justice in the world)Underworld is just a Blood Bowl thing. Also Nippon is too far off, Cathay and Ind too, for that matter.
Things I think are kinda likely: Kislev and Araby (no chance of this happening, but a combinedice and firesand+snow pack would get them goodwill)
Things I want but don't consider likely: Dogs of War, Underworld (skaven + goblins), Nippon, Halflings (but they have to be shit by design)
Things neither I nor apparently CA give a toss about: Border Princes, Amazons
Hence the 'don't consider likely'.
On reflection, they'd be missing a trick by not releasing a DLC to let us play as Rogue Armies. Either preset or randomised unit availability could be fun.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 18, 2017, 05:18:46 pm
Yah but then everyone would play that one army with Darkshards and Chaos Chosen.Things I'd bet on seeing: Daemons of Chaos (possibly split into four), Ogre Kingdoms, Chaos Dwarves (with fancy hats if there's any justice in the world)Underworld is just a Blood Bowl thing. Also Nippon is too far off, Cathay and Ind too, for that matter.
Things I think are kinda likely: Kislev and Araby (no chance of this happening, but a combinedice and firesand+snow pack would get them goodwill)
Things I want but don't consider likely: Dogs of War, Underworld (skaven + goblins), Nippon, Halflings (but they have to be shit by design)
Things neither I nor apparently CA give a toss about: Border Princes, Amazons
Hence the 'don't consider likely'.
On reflection, they'd be missing a trick by not releasing a DLC to let us play as Rogue Armies. Either preset or randomised unit availability could be fun.
It's really hard to argue with "Superheavy infantry and AP Archers" backed up by the shotguntillary of the Reaper Bolt Throwers.
Post by: umiman on December 18, 2017, 05:32:56 pm
Honestly I think the strongest faction would be like....
1. Have the cheapest and most spammable infantry wall with infinite morale and tonnes of HP to be the best front line.
2. Have the strongest cavalry with anti-large.
3. Have lots of air power in cheap spammable air units as well as singularly powerful air units to maintain supreme control over the air.
4. Generally have tonnes of cheap and efficient units in general.
5. The best mages in the game that can maybe... have giant death vortexes, spawn units anywhere, and maybe mass AOE heals that also revive troops and so on.
I mean, it sounds OP, but I think it'd be workable as a faction. Maybe as a weakness they don't need ranged troops but honestly I don't think it'd be a weakness as they can then just focus on cavalry and air instead.
--------
Edit: All joking aside, right now the strongest faction in MP is Lizardmen surprisingly enough. They had the best performance in the various tournaments so far as well as online. It's quite funny because I think this is the first time a non-flanking faction is doing well in any Total War game. They just march forward and obliterate everything in their way.
Post by: Cruxador on December 19, 2017, 09:35:53 am
Post by: ZeroGravitas on December 19, 2017, 10:09:42 am
Actually, speaking of factions and the third game, what can they even still do with it? I mean, they covered all the important bits of the map already, so what's left? Ogres, sure, and chaos dwarves, but isn't that pretty much it? And then it's just Ind and Cathay on the map besides them, which not even games workshop ever really cared about.
For the third game, I've heard speculation it would all Chaos infighting. Like, Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle, Slaanesh as the main factions and DLC for Chaos Dwarves and Ogres.
There's also Skytitans, I guess?
Post by: ZeroGravitas on December 19, 2017, 10:15:31 am
(https://www.pcgamesn.com/sites/default/files/tww2%20tomb%20king%20hierotitan.png)
Post by: Teneb on December 19, 2017, 10:32:38 am
Steam store page is not up yet, but from comments from CA_Grace in Reddit, Khalida is confirmed.
Blog post (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tomb-kings-announcement)
EDIT: Reading the blog post myself now and it's SETTRA!, Khalida, Khatep and Arkhan. So that's nice.
EDIT 2:
Spoiler: Transcription of the steam page (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on December 19, 2017, 03:20:42 pm
Post by: Tack on December 19, 2017, 03:57:33 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 19, 2017, 05:16:07 pm
Wonder if he'll show up for the Black Pyramid Battle.
Then you could unlock him as a secret LL like the Red Duke!
hopes
Post by: Mech#4 on December 19, 2017, 09:34:00 pm
Settra the Imperishable starts in Kemri. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/617870/ss_b21e000f5b273d97f26103edb8e2154424246ab8.1920x1080.jpg?t=1513702485)
Queen Kalida starts near the Golden Collosus, south-west coast of Lustria. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/617870/ss_a2ff553581b3ab6572dcdd1c0b8eb45027de1135.1920x1080.jpg?t=1513702485)
Arkhan the Black starts in Wizard Caliph's Palace in Araby. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/617870/ss_bd9b9f78a901d2d551daa46ec583180d53fff811.1920x1080.jpg?t=1513702485)
Khatep starts on an island just south of the Spider Planes in Naggaroth. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/617870/ss_36ff4c2ca40c2acda79d1239316d36fdd281513b.1920x1080.jpg?t=1513702485)
I believe these locations are just on the map in the Mortal Empires campaign, so Queen Kalida and Khatep might be shifted over a province but otherwise stay in the same general locations.
I like the mechanic the Tomb Kings have where they can get unique lords through, I think, research, adding them to the lord recruit pool. It also seems they've got regiments of renown in a similar way to how the Lizardmen have their blessed spawning units.
Post by: Teneb on December 19, 2017, 09:49:28 pm
Queen Kalida starts near the Golden Collosus, south-west coast of Lustria. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/617870/ss_a2ff553581b3ab6572dcdd1c0b8eb45027de1135.1920x1080.jpg?t=1513702485)wtf, this makes no sense.
Post by: umiman on December 20, 2017, 12:31:51 am
Think of it along the lines of Teclis's start. She's there to hunt for those books.Queen Kalida starts near the Golden Collosus, south-west coast of Lustria. (http://cdn.edgecast.steamstatic.com/steam/apps/617870/ss_a2ff553581b3ab6572dcdd1c0b8eb45027de1135.1920x1080.jpg?t=1513702485)wtf, this makes no sense.
Post by: ArchAIngel on December 20, 2017, 03:50:18 am
Because, uh... They have a really nice Unique now.
-5% upkeep for Grave Guard and Black Knights factionwide, +2 Unit Rank for them faction wide, +1 Lord Recruit Rank factionwide, local Wight King Recruitment, Factionwide +3 Recruit Rank for THEM, +2 Capacity for Wight Kings, +10 Public Order locally, 2 Black Knights, 2 Grave Guard, and 2 Grave Guard Greatswords as a garrison, Walls, +5 Vampiric Corruption, and local recruitment of Black Knights.
T3 Building.
Fortress of Merovech.
Post by: umiman on December 20, 2017, 04:00:09 am
Post by: umiman on December 20, 2017, 02:31:25 pm
Quote
TK Units do not cost gold to buy or upkeep
Mentioned on the TW stream earlier today. They have a unit cap that increases by building certain buildings.
Edit: also mentioned that Khalida will be in her home city in ME campaign
Edit2: also mentioned that Arkhan the Black has a unique building chain that allows him to unleash Vampire Count units in battle. They discuss Arkham using fell bats in battle at some point in the stream
Edit3: Legions of Legend described as “over the top, outrageous RoR” describes a large Carrion LoL that can drop bombs. You craft them with trade resources and Canopic Jars. 6 Dynasty’s total
Edit4: on Dynasty’s. Additional armies/hero’s require you to research a dynasty. You can only have as many armies as you have Dynasty’s. Each dynasty you research slows your research rate.
Edit5: Tomb Kings will have RoR from the start! These are separate from Legions of Legend! All races will be updated to not get RoR until level 10 in the future.
Post by: Teneb on December 20, 2017, 05:10:19 pm
Stolen from Reddit:I like everything in that except what that person did to dynasties.QuoteTK Units do not cost gold to buy or upkeep
Mentioned on the TW stream earlier today. They have a unit cap that increases by building certain buildings.
Edit: also mentioned that Khalida will be in her home city in ME campaign
Edit2: also mentioned that Arkhan the Black has a unique building chain that allows him to unleash Vampire Count units in battle. They discuss Arkham using fell bats in battle at some point in the stream
Edit3: Legions of Legend described as “over the top, outrageous RoR” describes a large Carrion LoL that can drop bombs. You craft them with trade resources and Canopic Jars. 6 Dynasty’s total
Edit4: on Dynasty’s. Additional armies/hero’s require you to research a dynasty. You can only have as many armies as you have Dynasty’s. Each dynasty you research slows your research rate.
Edit5: Tomb Kings will have RoR from the start! These are separate from Legions of Legend! All races will be updated to not get RoR until level 10 in the future.
Post by: umiman on December 21, 2017, 01:51:43 am
Quote
TK have a unique stance called “sand veil” that replenishes Troops and gives them the “sand veil” ability in battle which allows them to hide units.
I really like all these. Reminds me of the Norsca DLC where they pumped so much love into the faction. Man, this is so much better than some half-arsed mini-campaign that no one plays. Not to mention ever since playing WH2, I learned to really like it when individual races have opportunities to make unique lords and generals. The Dark Elf one for example injects so much personality into them that you can't help remembering them and their exploits. So this dynasty's thing has me stoked.
Also apparently the Necrotitan was almost completely designed by CA themselves. They used thoughts and ideas from other people and sculpted it based on that. Gotta say. I much prefer laser eye colossus over the stupid bone titans.
Edit: Love you Teneb.
Post by: lordcooper on December 21, 2017, 10:54:52 am
The primary downside so far is that ranged units take forever to form up and start fighting. This might be mitigated by keeping them in set formations, but I usually like to keep archers fluid to adapt to new gaps and flanking opportunities.
Post by: Cruxador on December 21, 2017, 11:20:00 am
dynasty'sStop that.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 22, 2017, 11:25:18 pm
While keeping in mind the modding caveat that any mods have to remain focused on the Warhammer license (So no Lord of the Rings, though I assume historical content would be fine), this does open the doors to more resouces for theming factions such as Araby using elements from Attila or importing custom models into Attila than moving them over to Warhammer that way.
Post by: umiman on December 23, 2017, 01:31:37 am
I set up a battle between a giant giant and Ungrim along with... 5000 or so slayers. Also turned down gravity 50% and increased impact force by 10x.
The slayers were surprisingly wiped out without too much trouble but the battle between Ungrim and the giant couldn't be resolved and the battle ended in a draw.
This is because with every hit, Ungrim would be sent flying off to the edge of the map and we'd have to slowly crawl to each other before he gets punted off to another side of the map. It was impossible to do anything. It was like Dwarf golf.
----
Later I had another battle between humans and it was impossible to see anything because I upped blood by 3x. So everything was just sprays of blood.
Post by: Tack on December 23, 2017, 08:23:46 am
I mean you’re just asking for it.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 24, 2017, 08:15:20 pm
Settra the Imperishable. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/ek/a8abk4ntf27p.png)
Queen Khalida. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/mx/w0s9z1or1t2u.png)
Grand Hierophant Khatep. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/2x/jxau5xgx13mr.png)
Arkhan the Black. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/4c/zifde8gghqlt.png)
Some interesting things are Settra the Imperishable can have a Khemrian Warsphynx as a mount, Khatep has several spells which I believe are from the Lore of Nehekhara, and Arkhan has a resurrect spell.
Post by: Tack on December 26, 2017, 01:23:49 am
That’s pretty messed up.
Post by: Retropunch on December 29, 2017, 06:47:10 pm
Woah that’s a $20 DLC.
That’s pretty messed up.
Yeah, the DLC is almost insultingly expensive. I get that they're adding a new race with a few new mechanics, but when it's the price of a reasonably priced full (non-AAA) game it gets a bit much.
Post by: umiman on January 08, 2018, 04:46:26 pm
TKs look more and more interesting with every bit of new data. They don't rely on loot drops on the battlefield but prefer to craft all their stuff themselves. They use trade goods to craft. Their state units don't have idle animations but stand completely still.
Post by: angelious on January 08, 2018, 05:07:44 pm
Woah that’s a $20 DLC.
That’s pretty messed up.
Yeah, the DLC is almost insultingly expensive. I get that they're adding a new race with a few new mechanics, but when it's the price of a reasonably priced full (non-AAA) game it gets a bit much.
each new dlc races comes with unique army,lords,gameplay mechanics,animations,voice acting, skills,magic, etc....so its not really that insultingly expensive considering how much bang you get for your buck and how much work it takes for them to actually make a new race.
Post by: Teneb on January 08, 2018, 05:29:07 pm
More information is out. The freeLC to come with TK is some dude I can't remember but is basically the alpha Skaven. And by that I mean he gets bonuses to running away and breaking treaties lol.You forgot to mention that Tretch Craventail is also rat Vlad. He has vanguard deployment for all forces... and starts with a doomwheel.
TKs look more and more interesting with every bit of new data. They don't rely on loot drops on the battlefield but prefer to craft all their stuff themselves. They use trade goods to craft. Their state units don't have idle animations but stand completely still.
Post by: umiman on January 08, 2018, 05:38:25 pm
Quote
Khemri: Settra the Imperishable
Public Order +2 (all provinces)
Growth +10 (all provinces)
-1 Construct time for main settlement buildings
+100% leadership aura size
+10% replenishment rate for Tomb Guard and Skeleton Chariots
Starting Unit: Khemrian Warsphinx
Starting Unit: Tombguard (Halberds)
Has a Unique Traits which levels up based on how rich you get. Increases your raiding income and building income.
Exiles of Nehek: Grand Hierophant Khatep
Suitable Climate: Mountains
Diplomatic Relations -40 with Dark Elves
+5% Campaign movement range
+10% casualty replenishment (all armies)
+10% research rate
Hero Capacity: +2 for Liche Priests
Hero Recruit Rank +3 for Liche Priests
Starting Unit: Hierotitan
Starting Unit: Carrion
Court of Lybaras: High Queen Khalida
Suitable Climate: Jungle
Diplomatic Relations +20 with Tomb Kings
+20% ammunition for all armies.
Poison attacks (for Khalida's army)
-50% attrition for Khalida's army)
Untainted +3 for Khalida in local province.
Starting Unit: Sepulchral Stalkers
Starting Unit: Necropolis Knights
Followers of Nagash: Arkhan the Black
+20 diplomatic relations with Vampire Counts
-50 diplomatic relations with Tomb Kings.
+10 Winds Reserve for all armies.
Vampiric Corruption does not impact public order.
Starting Unit: Crypt Ghouls
Starting Unit: Tomb Scorpions(?)
Campaign Start: Settra
Main early enemies are Orc Factions (Top Knotz) controlling land north of Khemri
It appears that CA has allowed, for the purpose of the Tomb Kings, Multiple missions to trigger during the same turn, this is good for modding potential alone.
Main Objectives: The Books of Nagash
Books are obtained by capturing certain settlements or defeating certain armies. It is not certain whether these are preset (likely) or partially randomized (unlikely).
In the gameplay. the following are the requirements
Book 1 Location: Defeat the Black Creek Raiders (looks like a rogue army) who start in Lustria.
Book 1 Bonus: +1 Capacity for all heroes, -50% hero action cost, +10% hero success chance.
Book 2 Location: Occupy the Awakening on the Vampire Coast.
Book 2 Bonus: Grants vision over any settlement with Gold, Gemstones or Marble, Grants +20% income from Trade.
Book 3 Location: Occupy Vulture Mountain, near Araby in the Southlands.
Book 3 Bonus: After Occupying or Sacking a settlement, a sandstorm will occur. You gain immunity to sandstorms and +15% casualty replenishment after occupying or sacking.
Book 4 Location: Another Rogue army, in the southern jungles of the Southlands.
Book 4 Bonus: 250 Jars, Lord Recruit Rank +3, -1 to Wound recovery time.
Book 5 Location: Occupy the White Tower of Hoeth, in Ulthuan.
Book 5 Bonus: +1 Army Capacity, +5 Unit Capacity for Tombguard (both types) and Skeleton Chariots.
Book 6 Location: Another Rogue army, starting just south of Araby.
Book 6 Bonus: Unlocks Recruitment for Lore of Shadows Liche Priests, grants +20 Winds Reserve.
Book 7 Location: Yet another Rogue Army, starting in the Islands of Ulthuan near Cothique.
Book 7 Bonus: Grants 10 Jars per Turn and +10% research rate.
Book 8 Location: Capture the Lost Plateau, near Karak Zorn.
Book 8 Bonus: +50% effects from Commandments.
Book 9 Location: "Known to Belong to Arkhan the Black, however it's exact location is unknown, and retrieving it will be all but impossible".
Book 9 Bonus: Enables recruitment of Certain Vampire Count Units.
You must also take and hold the Black Pyramid, getting it to max level.
Recruitment
Recruitment is fairly simple: Units have a cap which is increased by the building you recruit them from.
Units have no upkeep and no recruitment cost, only a unit cap.
Build more stuff to have access to more units.
Regiments of Renown are available (at least four of them anyway) right off the bat. These regiments appear to be Legions of Legend.
The available Regiments are:
The Flock of Djaf (Carrion)
Usirian's Legion of the Netherworld (Nehekhara Warriors)
Storm Riders of Khsar (Nehekhara Horsemen)
Venom Knights of Asaph (Necropolis Knights)
Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Spearmen appear to be the only units not subject to any form of unit cap.
The Mortuary Cult:
Has 6 tabs: Legions of Legend, Weapons, Armour, Enchanted Items, Talismans, and Arcane Items.
The legions of Legends tab lets you use Gold, Canopic Jars and the possession of certain trade goods to increase the capacity for the legions of legend.
You also must pay to increase your army capacity (Costs 10000 cost and 750 jars, which seems expensive).
The crafting is basically having access to a given trade resource plus having enough Jars.
Some items seem EXTREMELY powerful, but cost many jars.
Lots of Room to make your Lord completely overpowered with this.
Roster Notes
Tier 5 Units include: Hierotitan, Necropolis Knights (Halberds)!!!, Khemrian Warspinx and Necrosphinx.
It is interesting that the tomb-kings have a Tier 5 cavalry option with Armour Piercing Damage, poison attacks, Bonus Versus Large and a decent armour value at 90. Their Stats are slightly lower than Demigryphs with Halberds but still, they are fucking impressive.
Tomb Swarms are apparently in, but only as an Army Ability.
Dynasty's (research)
Researching Dynasty's lowers your research rate each time, but is a far cheaper way of increasing your army capacity.
Each Dynasty contains a unique Lord who can be unlocked at the cost of Jars, a unique proclamation (factionwide buff, basically) that can be unlocked for Gold, and 6 minor techs. *Heralds can be unlocked separately and are unique followers.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 08, 2018, 08:56:59 pm
(https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/2g/vmaqfb8wnyqk.png)
Hunting down the books of Nagash seems fun, though I wonder about the ones held by rogue armies. What if the rogue army gets defeated before you get to it, or what if it settles a region?
Post by: Teneb on January 10, 2018, 12:17:15 pm
Post by: Sindain on January 10, 2018, 12:43:53 pm
It looks like the campaign starting with the coalition against Dong Zhou, so we won't be getting Yellow Turbans, which seems sacrilegious to me. But I guess CA was stuck in a corner since they refuse to ever give us multiple start dates at launch.
Though I'm sure this way they get to sell us a Yellow Turban DLC down the way.
Post by: Tack on January 10, 2018, 12:54:24 pm
Then. I was like “Wait, Chinese history is basically ALL about the generals (and my comments on reddit reflect this)
So i’m kinda stuck. I love the gritty realism of historical games, but I can understand the Three Kingdoms campaign wanting to have a bit more... flair.
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 10, 2018, 01:36:43 pm
Give me my murder horse, CA!
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 02:39:47 pm
So here's the Total War team status report:
4. I guarantee you from this wording:QuoteThe game retains the same strong focus on character design that infused previous major releases, with the key personalities of the period in particular being an early priority for us now; as such there are some vibrant and striking renders plastered around the studio, with eye-catching combat animations garnering some serious attention too.The next historical Total War will be Three Kingdoms Total War. It has to be. There really aren't a lot of historical periods of great battle where there are a lot of "key personalities" who are "vibrant" with melee combat.
They've already done the Sengoku Jidai. Charlemagne, Alexander, Rome, and all the pre-middle ages have been done. Anything involving the Medieval era will just be Medieval 2 and there aren't that many key personalities of that period that require strong character design. I mean, who gives a shit if King Henry VIII has 300 polygons for his massive dong.
There's nothing left. It has to be China. They could do something strange and have I dunno.... the Japanese conquests of Manchuria, which would be fairly interesting since it would involve Yi Sun-sin. But that would be too small in scope for a Total War game and I bet almost no one would know what that conflict even involved (it's pretty epic though).
C'mon, please be China!!!!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Did I tell you guys so or what.
There was no other option given all the hints they were giving.
Can't wait to play my boi Cao Cao. Crush some so called "genius" strategists by the dozens.
Post by: Tack on January 10, 2018, 03:01:15 pm
Or was he just a quick marcher?
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 03:11:33 pm
But personally I think him and Sima Yi were the only true legends of the period. Most of the rest were just scam artists or regular people. I don't have any good things to say about anyone in Shu and the Wu so-called "Kingdom" spent more time jacking themselves off rather than do anything. Not that they could.
Want me to write a treatise on how awesome Cao Cao is? Or want me to roast all the Shu characters that are worshipped as Gods today?
Post by: Teneb on January 10, 2018, 03:17:00 pm
Spoiler: Obligatory meme (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 04:20:22 pm
It's the Battle of Hulao Gate.
The fatass is Dong Zhuo, the inspector (basically governor) of Liang province in China. The dude with the red feather next to him is Lu Bu obviously. They hail from an area of China that specializes in mounted combat. Very similar to the Hunnic and Mongolian peoples. Prior to the event, Dong Zhuo was invited into the capital city by a dumbass who doesn't deserve to be named to restore order after a bunch of sexless dumbasses were being dumbasses. They were eunuchs in case you were wondering why I said that.
Anyway, since he was basically given a free pass by the abovementioned dumbasses to bring a full army right into the heart of the empire, he decided to just stay there and rule. Sounds fair to me honestly. I mean if your relatives made you drive from Seattle to Florida just to settle a dispute with a large army, you kinda deserve some shit.
Dong Zhuo ruled like a dumbass, raping and pillaging everything. This caused all the lords to rebel and they gathered together under the banner of another dumbass by the name of Yuan Shao (to be fair to him, Yuan Shao only became a dumbass after tasting power, he was pretty cool before). Anyway, some shit happens, and by some shit I mean no shit happens. Cause all the lords spent all their time being dumbasses and not doing anything.
Dong Zhuo brings basically his entire army to Hulao Pass and they taunt the alliance of dumbassery to come out and fight them. Lu Bu does most of the taunting. Some dumbasses go out to fight him, and by some I mean a lot, and they get their asses kicked. By asses I mean they were killed. So the dumbass lords become too scared to do anything. Incidentally, during this battle Cao Cao and Liu Bei were there too. But neither were lords of anything really and Cao Cao only had a small contingent of men. Liu Bei only had his two friends Guan Yu and Zhang Fei. In the trailer, Cao Cao is the guy who moves those pawns on the map and Liu Bei is the guy making the oath in the peach tree grove.
Anyway, after a bit of getting their asses kicked. Legend goes that Guan Yu and Zhang Fei, two nobodies at the time, went out and fought Lu Bu. Zhang Fei fought solo at first. It was here that Zhang Fei basically called him a triple bastard. Because Lu Bu abandoned his real father, betrayed his foster father (for a horse...), and was now the lapdog of his third father. Lol.
Anyway, Zhang Fei started losing, and in true fashion to their real historical characters, Guan Yu interrupted this manly 1 on 1 duel and now fought Lu Bu 2 on 1. How chivalrous. But of course I expect nothing more from a bunch of rapist country-bumpkin bandits. But enough about that. See Liu Bei felt left out and went and fought him too, so now this duel was 3 on 1. How fair. Lu Bu lost and retreated. Which basically ended the battle. This also teaches us that no one gives a shit about honorable duels as long as you win.
Now the fun part. You'd think after winning this defining battle, the dumbasses would had won the entire war. I mean, for all intents and purposes they could. It would have been easy to run down with the alliance troops and obliterate the remainder of Dong Zhuo's fatass army. However, reality begged to differ.
The alliance was not a true alliance. These dumbass lords were more interested in their own profits than the Empire as a whole. They had absolutely no intention of sacrificing or risking their troops to defeat a relatively sizeable army. So they sat and squabbled with each other with only basically two lords actually doing anything (and failing). One of those was Cao Cao, who barely even had an army and got obliterated. The legend goes that it was at this point that Cao Cao realized he was surrounded by morons and if the Empire had any hope of being reunited, he had to do it himself. The other was Sun Jian, the father of those who would eventually form the Wu "kingdom". Sun Jian was a pretty cool dude. So Dong Zhuo managed to make it back to the capital, which he promptly moved to a completely different part of the country. It would be many, many years later before he would be killed and defeated.
Thus began the period of strife. Now the empire was basically split into a couple dozen random-ass dumbasses of varying degrees of legitimacy as everyone scrambled to claim whatever they could for themselves.
A few years after that the map would basically look like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
p.s: This entire battle was fictional btw. Didn't happen in real life.
Post by: angelious on January 10, 2018, 04:24:32 pm
Cao Cao is my idol and who I aspire to be. So my opinion is biased.
But personally I think him and Sima Yi were the only true legends of the period. Most of the rest were just scam artists or regular people. I don't have any good things to say about anyone in Shu and the Wu so-called "Kingdom" spent more time jacking themselves off rather than do anything. Not that they could.
Want me to write a treatise on how awesome Cao Cao is? Or want me to roast all the Shu characters that are worshipped as Gods today?
Lu bu was one of the most renowed warriors ever in both east and west. zhuge liang was credited as being as good of a tactician and a strategist as sun tzu was,guan yu literally became a god in chinese mythology,ma chao was credited to be among the greatest duelists to ever live in china, zhao yun was legendary in nearly everything he did, then there is the sun family,with each member(well not so for sun quan..) attaining huge amounts of fame and respect in chinese history.
the time period became as legendary as it is in modern days because it was filled with extra ordinary generals and warriors. you are quite narrow minded if you believe sima yi and cao cao were the best, or worse yet: the only awesome people to come out of that time period.
also if you want to complain about lack of valor: then how about cao cao trying to assassinate dong zhuo while staying as a house guest at his place, and then later on murdering his own uncle and laughing about it afterwards because he found out the reason he killed him was false?
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 05:08:13 pm
Zhuge Liang was an incompetent imbecile who accomplished nothing but bragged about everything like he was so amazing. Not to mention the author spent so much time sucking his cock I'm surprised he didn't gag. He probably just loved it. Fucking fanboy. Oh wait a minute... most of the later parts of that novel are based on Zhuge Liang's personally written autobiography. Wow, I wonder if that might be a little biased. Who the fuck brags about "inventing" the wheelbarrow? He's a dumbshit.
Lu Bu was a child who only knew how to fight and nothing else. He got completely owned by everyone and everything and died like the dumbshit he is. Accomplishing nothing and just generally wasting everyone's time.
You want to know the real history of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei? So called God of War? How the fuck did this massively incompetent buffoon managed to become venerated is beyond me. It's like someone worshipping Darius 3 like a god. Throughout the real, actual history. Guan Yu won not a single battle. NOT A SINGLE BATTLE. He didn't win anything. Every single time he was left alone to lead, he fucked up. Hell, he fucked up so bad he literally lost the entirety of Shu. This was even in the novel itself. Remember Fan castle? Good job Guan Yu. You had one single job. Chill out in Jing province and Liu Bei would probably control China (he wouldn't but for arguments sake lets say he stood a chance). Nope. Gotta go lose the entire war for everyone. His strategy for regional control was to piss everyone off even if he didn't need to, and go march to his own death. What a smart guy.
What about Zhang Fei? Brilliant guy. Let's list his achievements:
1. Kidnapped Xiahou Yuan's 13 year old niece and forced her to be his wife for the rest of her life, raping her repeatedly and forcing her to give birth to four children.
2. Permanently drunk and useless. Frequently killing his own men in fits of drunkenless and / or rage.
3. Destroyed a bridge.
4. Was killed by his own men because they were sick and tired of him, helping to destroy his own kingdom.
Wow. Fantastic guy. Great person all around. Hey, at least he won some battles.
You don't even have to take my word for it. All of this is in their respective wiki pages. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Fei#Family_and_descendants) But in case you're a man of intellect, you can read the below.
Sources:
1. Annotations to Records of the Three Kingdoms by Pei Songzhi.
2. Generals of the South by Rafe de Crespigny.
3. Northern Frontier by Rafe de Crespigny.
4. Man from the Margin by Rafe de Crespigny.
---------
tl;dr: There's two Three Kingdoms. One is the real history. One is the fiction written in Romance of the Three Kingdoms. They are entirely different.
More info here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3h6cy4/was_cao_cao_really_kind_of_a_tragic_hero_of_the/
Additionally, I will post this article (https://the-archlich.tumblr.com/post/94831772662) written by a guy much smarter than me on why there's such a massive discrepancy between actual history and the novel:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Levi on January 10, 2018, 05:10:08 pm
Cao Cao is my idol and who I aspire to be. So my opinion is biased.
But Cao Cao was the bad guy! A bad guy with ridiculously good HR skills. :P
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 05:23:16 pm
Everyone preferred Han Solo when he shot first.Cao Cao is my idol and who I aspire to be. So my opinion is biased.
But Cao Cao was the bad guy! A bad guy with ridiculously good HR skills. :P
--------
That being said. I'm glad CA is focusing more on the novelization rather than the actual history. This is because the novel is way more interesting and would lead to far better gameplay and story.
Also the actual history would have really boring battles. It would basically just end up being peasant mob vs peasant mob. The novel has all the cool units and formations and stuff.
Post by: angelious on January 10, 2018, 06:08:39 pm
I know the real history, not the bullshit written in Romance of the Three Kingdoms. I've read everything from the commentaries on the Three Kingdoms by Pei Songzhi to everything by the greatest expert on the period, Rafe de Crespigny. Yes, the foremost expert on the period is a Frenchman.
Zhuge Liang was an incompetent imbecile who accomplished nothing but bragged about everything like he was so amazing. Not to mention the author spent so much time sucking his cock I'm surprised he didn't gag. He probably just loved it. Fucking fanboy. Oh wait a minute... most of the later parts of that novel are based on Zhuge Liang's personally written autobiography. Wow, I wonder if that might be a little biased. Who the fuck brags about "inventing" the wheelbarrow? He's a dumbshit.
Lu Bu was a child who only knew how to fight and nothing else. He got completely owned by everyone and everything and died like the dumbshit he is. Accomplishing nothing and just generally wasting everyone's time.
You want to know the real history of Guan Yu and Zhang Fei? So called God of War? How the fuck did this massively incompetent buffoon managed to become venerated is beyond me. It's like someone worshipping Darius 3 like a god. Throughout the real, actual history. Guan Yu won not a single battle. NOT A SINGLE BATTLE. He didn't win anything. Every single time he was left alone to lead, he fucked up. Hell, he fucked up so bad he literally lost the entirety of Shu. This was even in the novel itself. Remember Fan castle? Good job Guan Yu. You had one single job. Chill out in Jing province and Liu Bei would probably control China (he wouldn't but for arguments sake lets say he stood a chance). Nope. Gotta go lose the entire war for everyone. His strategy for regional control was to piss everyone off even if he didn't need to, and go march to his own death. What a smart guy.
What about Zhang Fei? Brilliant guy. Let's list his achievements:
1. Kidnapped Xiahou Yuan's 13 year old niece and forced her to be his wife for the rest of her life, raping her repeatedly and forcing her to give birth to four children.
2. Permanently drunk and useless. Frequently killing his own men in fits of drunkenless and / or rage.
3. Destroyed a bridge.
4. Was killed by his own men because they were sick and tired of him, helping to destroy his own kingdom.
Wow. Fantastic guy. Great person all around. Hey, at least he won some battles.
You don't even have to take my word for it. All of this is in their respective wiki pages. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Fei#Family_and_descendants) But in case you're a man of intellect, you can read the below.
Sources:
1. Annotations to Records of the Three Kingdoms by Pei Songzhi.
2. Generals of the South by Rafe de Crespigny.
3. Northern Frontier by Rafe de Crespigny.
4. Man from the Margin by Rafe de Crespigny.
---------
tl;dr: There's two Three Kingdoms. One is the real history. One is the fiction written in Romance of the Three Kingdoms. They are entirely different.
More info here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/3h6cy4/was_cao_cao_really_kind_of_a_tragic_hero_of_the/
Additionally, I will post this article (https://the-archlich.tumblr.com/post/94831772662) written by a guy much smarter than me on why there's such a massive discrepancy between actual history and the novel:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
never talked anything about liu bei or zhang fei.although liu bei was pretty much as big of a douche as cao cao and the rest of the rulers were;he was noted to have charismatic personality (hence why several of the greatest generals and tacticians of their time decided to side with shu)and he was noted to be extremely benevolent towards his followers (best exemplified when he refused to abandon the peasantry when cao cao was hunting him and his own down..this also was the event where zhang fei made his name via holding a bridge with only 20 horsemen and sheer intimidation) as for zhuge liang: the guy wasnt incompetent, he had vastly inferior army and less resources than any of the other kingdoms. and yet he managed to beat zhou yu (wu's head tactician) in battle so badly zhou yu is claimed to have died out of frustration because of it, he also held the line againts wei advances and managed to actually gain some head way in his campaigns againts wei, despite the fact that the angle from which he had to attack was utterly insane and impossible to conquerror.he was also the guy who made the entire strategy that would have "won" shu the entire war had it not been for guan yu's arrogance. not to mention sima yi,the guy whose dick you are lusting after, was so afraid of him a mere statue of the man was enough to make him shit his pants. as for your claim that guan yu didnt do jackshit: He was a renowed warrior of such a high quality that even cao cao lusted after his mighty beard,which is why he was namened a god of war.said to be capable of taking on armies by himself. he wasnt a great politician and as a general he only attained some victories(unlike what you claim) such as during liu beis route(the same one where zhang fei held the bridge with nothing but good indimidation rolls) where he stopped cao cao from curbstombing liu bei to the ground with his army.saving just about the entire shu kingdom from being destroyed before it even was formed.
as for rotk sucking on zhuges dick? the guy writing it basically flip flopped between constantly belittling the man and claiming "he sucked as a tactician but was an amazing statesman" to saying zhuges only real accomplishment was hiring out skilled people to do work for him.
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 06:26:37 pm
never talked anything about liu bei or zhang fei.although liu bei was pretty much as big of a douche as cao cao and the rest of the rulers were;he was noted to have charismatic personality (hence why several of the greatest generals and tacticians of their time decided to side with shu)and he was noted to be extremely benevolent towards his followers (best exemplified when he refused to abandon the peasantry when cao cao was hunting him and his own down..this also was the event where zhang fei made his name via holding a bridge with only 20 horsemen and sheer intimidation) as for zhuge liang: the guy wasnt incompetent, he had vastly inferior army and less resources than any of the other kingdoms. and yet he managed to beat zhou yu (wu's head tactician) in battle so badly zhou yu is claimed to have died out of frustration because of it, he also held the line againts wei advances and managed to actually gain some head way in his campaigns againts wei, despite the fact that the angle from which he had to attack was utterly insane and impossible to conquerror.he was also the guy who made the entire strategy that would have "won" shu the entire war had it not been for guan yu's arrogance. not to mention sima yi,the guy whose dick you are lusting after, was so afraid of him a mere statue of the man was enough to make him shit his pants. as for your claim that guan yu didnt do jackshit: He was a renowed warrior of such a high quality that even cao cao lusted after his mighty beard,which is why he was namened a god of war.said to be capable of taking on armies by himself. he wasnt a great politician and as a general he only attained some victories(unlike what you claim) such as during liu beis route(the same one where zhang fei held the bridge with nothing but good indimidation rolls) where he stopped cao cao from curbstombing liu bei to the ground with his army.saving just about the entire shu kingdom from being destroyed before it even was formed.(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CtmoSV7W8AA_cJl.jpg)
as for rotk sucking on zhuges dick? the guy writing it basically flip flopped between constantly belittling the man and claiming "he sucked as a tactician but was an amazing statesman" to saying zhuges only real accomplishment was hiring out skilled people to do work for him.
Post by: lordcooper on January 10, 2018, 07:21:50 pm
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 10, 2018, 08:48:23 pm
(except for Ma Chao. He alright)
Post by: Kruniac on January 10, 2018, 08:53:24 pm
Never go full retard.
I mean, the one is a dose of autism, the other is a dose of ROTK/DW fanboyism. They sort of cancel each other out, like two waves crashing together.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 10, 2018, 10:06:55 pm
It looks really interesting and I'm looking forward to the scene change.
Warhammer 2:
There's been some videos released of gameplay footage of the upcoming Tomb Kings. Here's one from MilkandcookiesTW (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjgrcqZjTlE) and another two from Invicta (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBLrGAF-P8Q) and Party Elite. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8bNsZfNJqU)
One interesting thing I noted was Queen Kalida apparently starts in Southern Lustria in the Vortex campaign, but in the Mortal Empires campaign she is moved to south of Lamia. This was shown near the beginning of Party Elite's video above.
Post by: umiman on January 10, 2018, 10:55:30 pm
Funnily enough I still haven't played Mortal Empires yet.
Post by: umiman on January 11, 2018, 01:39:52 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on January 11, 2018, 01:49:15 pm
Sad that we can’t get MW2 scale overhauls anymore, but I guess that’s a downside of a 30 gig game.
Would kill to see a new Third Age mod using the Warhammer Engine.
Post by: micelus on January 11, 2018, 02:12:33 pm
If they throw in Nanman and Korea as minor playable factions, I will squee.
Post by: umiman on January 11, 2018, 02:23:11 pm
I actually teared up a bit after hearing about the TW:3K. I've been waiting for a China game, romanticised or not, for ages.I think it might be quite likely to see Korea.
If they throw in Nanman and Korea as minor playable factions, I will squee.
Well... not Korea Korea. But the people that would eventually become Korea.
We'll almost certainly see a Warring States era expansion / standalone. We might get an Imjin war one too. I would like that. Would be fun to see the exploits of Yi Sun-Sin. Though how the fuck they can do that while naval warfare is still so crap in TW is beyond me.
For those who don't know, Yi Sun-sin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ieaDfD_h6s) is a badass to topple all badasses (http://www.badassoftheweek.com/admiralyi.html). That he is not as well known as guys like Napoleon or Wellington is a crime against history. This is one of his quotes:
"I still have thirteen ships. As long as I am alive, the enemies will never gain the Western Sea."
He won that battle by the way. His 13 ships defeated 133 Japanese ships. Destroying 31 of them, routing the rest, and didn't lose a single ship. (http://His most famous victory occurred at the Battle of Myeongnyang, where despite being outnumbered 133 warships to 13, he managed to disable or destroy 31 of the 133 Japanese warships without losing a single ship of his own.)
Post by: micelus on January 11, 2018, 02:31:00 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goguryeo%E2%80%93Wei_War
Imagine a what-if scenario if Goguryeo beated Wei? I would utterly squeee
Post by: umiman on January 11, 2018, 07:59:20 pm
A community member released an updated version of the community mod manager for Warhammer 2 here: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/7pln41/new_mod_manager_for_warhammer_2_released/
In the same thread, the guy who made the original tool chipped up and it turns out he works for CA now (CA hires modders?). He said he's going to speak to his bosses to see if they can actually use the tool as the default mod manager.
Cool stuff. Either way, the manager is way better than what we currently have.
Post by: A Thing on January 11, 2018, 09:08:21 pm
But seriously. Fuck Liu Bei and the overpolished cocks of Shu. Would not serve my wife for dinner. 3/10.
(except for Ma Chao. He alright)
^
Gimme that Ma Clan. Screw dynastic China, we'll make a new China, with blackjack and hookers!
Post by: Sindain on January 11, 2018, 10:09:20 pm
Though Dong Zhuo and Yuan Shao would definitely get a slot as playable factions before Ma Teng does.
Post by: umiman on January 11, 2018, 11:03:49 pm
I think we might see a chance of a playable Ma clan. I seriously doubt that they would give us only the big three to play as and Ma Teng was a fairly important dude around the start.Even if it wasn't playable at the start, I don't see it being very difficult to mod the factions to make them playable.
Though Dong Zhuo and Yuan Shao would definitely get a slot as playable factions before Ma Teng does.
Rather, the question is what unique things do the actual playable factions get that the others won't? Heroes? Perks? We'll have to see what CA does with heroes and officers especially, though they were talking about how much modelling and animation they've been doing for this one.
I'm actually really curious how they'll do it. It's easy to say they'll make it like Warhammer where heroes and generals are superunits, but what about things like... who leads an army? Who is a bodyguard? Most characters did both. Can we have multiple generals in a single stack like before or are we doing 1 general per stack like the modern games? Can officers break away and do their own thing? How will the game handle stuff like Lu Bu or Liu Bei who just betray everyone and do their own shit constantly? Can you recruit officers from enemy armies?
Post by: Tack on January 12, 2018, 03:02:26 am
Post by: umiman on January 12, 2018, 03:55:24 am
Also Cao Cao couldn’t sword his way out of a paper bag.Yeah... Wonder if they'll represent that this time. Or will tacticians start summoning laser beams and carpet bombers...
Post by: Teneb on January 12, 2018, 08:40:32 am
Post by: ZeroGravitas on January 12, 2018, 10:53:09 am
then i find out it's just tw:rotk :-[
Post by: A Thing on January 12, 2018, 01:10:27 pm
I'm actually really curious how they'll do it. It's easy to say they'll make it like Warhammer where heroes and generals are superunits, but what about things like... who leads an army? Who is a bodyguard? Most characters did both. Can we have multiple generals in a single stack like before or are we doing 1 general per stack like the modern games? Can officers break away and do their own thing? How will the game handle stuff like Lu Bu or Liu Bei who just betray everyone and do their own shit constantly? Can you recruit officers from enemy armies?
I'm sorta wondering that instead of states that we might be playing characters/dynasties, ala CK2. Though I'm not entirely sure how you would handle effectively separate "states" within a state in Total War. Maybe a system like the HRE in Europa Universalis?
Post by: Mech#4 on January 15, 2018, 11:33:19 am
Note: On the map, Khemri has the wrong icon in the faction list. It shows a golden scorpion when they actually have a bird. The proper icon is shown on the map itself.
Also, it seems like one of the Vampire Count factions in the area has been removed, with only the Necrach Brotherhood remaining while the Strigos Empire no longer having a place. Not a major thing really. As an aside it would be neat if they developed them into a full Mourkain Empire faction.
Post by: Teneb on January 15, 2018, 11:59:02 am
Though already gathered from the screenshots released, the start locations of the Tomb Kings factions have been announced along with a map image to show the various Tomb King factions that'll be featured. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/ek/jwj53ppxlace.jpg)The strigoi are usually in the southwestern Dark Lands anyway, so they may end up returning.
Note: On the map, Khemri has the wrong icon in the faction list. It shows a golden scorpion when they actually have a bird. The proper icon is shown on the map itself.
Also, it seems like one of the Vampire Count factions in the area has been removed, with only the Necrach Brotherhood remaining while the Strigos Empire no longer having a place. Not a major thing really. As an aside it would be neat if they developed them into a full Mourkain Empire faction.
Post by: umiman on January 15, 2018, 12:12:23 pm
Post by: umiman on January 15, 2018, 06:17:42 pm
So I kinda did a Hitler in my Lizardman VH campaign.
I managed to take most of the Southlands except for a rabble of random 1-province states in the NW. Humans, Bretonnians, Dwarfs, etc. We were allies for a very long time but they were kinda getting in the way now.
So I figured, I'll take the reliability hit and just war them and unify the Southlands.
Big fucking mistake.
The next turn basically the entire world save the Dark Elves declare war on me. So all the Dwarves, Elves, Humans, other Lizardmen, even Mazdamundi fucking come for me.
All my colonial holdings were basically wiped out. Now I'm desperately trying to hold the Southlands against a neverending horde of everything (except Dark Elves). I have 6 armies but I can't defend the entirety of Africa so enemies keep managing to make beachheads here and there.
Fun times.
Post by: Tack on January 16, 2018, 02:51:29 pm
Meanwhile, I started a Mors mortal realms game.
Keep on forgetting that the very first Ruin spell is basically the Saurusfucker.
Bunch 'em up, knock 'em down. Rinse repeat. It's actually a little too powerful for the price, IMO.
Post by: umiman on January 16, 2018, 03:03:45 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on January 16, 2018, 09:39:47 pm
Note: The army list doesn't list the basae Tomb King lords, though here's the information of them from the Steam page:
Tomb King
Tomb Kings are the principle Lords which lead the armies of Nehekhara. A number will appear as standard in the recruitment pool, but unique, named Tomb Kings – famous rulers from the six dynasties of Nehekharan history – may be resurrected via the Dynasties panel, at which point they enter your Lords recruitment pool. Tomb kings may unlock the Skeletal Steed, Skeleton Chariot, and Khemrian Warsphinx as mounts.
Spoiler: Tomb Kings Army Roster (click to show/hide)
There's also a video showing several turns of a head-to-head campaign between Settra the Imperishable and Arkhan the Black. It shows some of the Tomb Kings rite abilities like using a special Necrotect to establish a level 3 settlement from the get go. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saTuVLlYTAM)
Post by: umiman on January 16, 2018, 10:27:21 pm
Certainly more useful than half of the Lizardmen ones.
Jesus Christ did Slann mages get the nerf bat in this game. They're so bad. No idea why you need to build so much shit AND do a rite to get something so crappy.
Post by: Tack on January 17, 2018, 10:36:57 am
Meanwhile, I started a Mors mortal realms game.*slaps forehead* Gosh darn what a silly mistake. Mortal empires!
I forgot that everyone has Regiments of Renown. Everyone except me and my Warhammer 2 buddies.
Good thing that they can replenish those stacks WAY before the ten-turn timer which was supposed to have been patched in.
I am livid.
Post by: umiman on January 17, 2018, 08:26:36 pm
In 50 turns since that previous post I accomplished absolutely nothing. I haven't managed to expand. Haven't manage to defeat anyone. Haven't even progressed a single iota towards the ritual.
Here's a screenshot:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As you can see, money is tough. I actually managed to break through quite a bit of Southern Lothern and stopped the Elves from completing the final ritual, but then they brought down 7000 angry racist elves to smack me back to Lothern, which I just barely held on to after a really epic siege defense. 2000 lizards vs 7000 elves.
Mazdamundi doesn't really do much but he does send the occasional stack down to invade me when I have absolutely nothing to defend. Itza too, the pieces of shit. It's why that top bit of Lustria has a little razed province. I was hoping I could use it as a buffer zone to prevent the AI from attacking me so much from that direction. Didn't really work. There was one particularly amusing moment when Itza sent two stacks of just Terradons.
The asshole Lizard-loving humans come from there too.
The Dark Elves are basically out of the picture. They got completely smashed by intervention armies, Norsca, rogue armies, and finally Mazdamundi planting his giant lizard dong straight up their bumhole.
The NE is basically a new Border Princes state with three rogue armies calling it home.
The main problem are the fucking Spine of Sotek dwarfs. There's an unlimited number of them. You can't see it in that screenshot, but 4 stacks are sailing across the ocean to invade me. That's AFTER I defeated 2 stacks on that little island in between us and 2 stacks that already made landfall. It never ends. They just keep coming and coming and coming like a tireless horde. What the hell is wrong with these Dwarfs?!
Oh, and my reputation still hasn't improved beyond unreliable. So I can't peace with anyone. Still constant, total war.
------------
I'm thinking the only way I can get out of this mess is to move as many armies as I can spare into Lustria and completely wipe out the Dwarfs once and for all.
Also one of the Dwarf 1-province nations I originally declared war on is still somehow existing. They managed to colonize some ruins way in the NW of the map where no one else is and I can't get to them to finish them off. Normally I wouldn't care, but as a parting gift they left a single max level thane sitting in the middle of my land constantly assaulting my garrisons.
I imagine a really REALLY angry dwarf on a one man crusade in Araby. I don't actually want to kill him, he's been there so long. Like a national treasure.
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 17, 2018, 08:58:44 pm
I now need to figure out how to beat 4 stacks of Varg with a pretty strong Dawi stack, and a shitty Empire garrison helping out.
At least there are technically walls?
Post by: Teneb on January 17, 2018, 09:03:29 pm
They just keep coming and coming and coming like a tireless horde. What the hell is wrong with these Dwarfs?!They got to avenge those grudges.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 18, 2018, 08:12:52 am
Headline improvements:
• Rebalanced the Grand and Vortex campaigns to reduce Dwarf supremacy.
• Improved ‘Dropped Orders’/units responsiveness during battles.
• Increased the length of Multiplayer Campaign objectives (head to head and co-op)
• Improved Skaven units in auto-resolve.
• Added a check-box to the army panel in campaign, so when end-turn notifications are disabled, the notifications for the selected army will still be enabled.
• Battle AI is now less inclined to use deep unit formations (e.g. 5 units deep) and will use more varied and wider formations where appropriate.
• Campaign Battle difficulty modifiers are now applied to the AI correctly.
• Battle AI is now less likely to clump when attacking a high Combat Potential unit or Lord, which used to make them easy to kill with ranged units or by flanking the clumped army.
• Improved the Battle AI outflank analyser to check the number of entities currently in the unit, rather than the initial number. This will prevent the Battle AI from attempting to outflank an already engaged unit and surround single entity units under certain conditions.
• Old World Legendary Lords traits and Bretonnia updates, see above for details.
Note: I would usually copy and paste the patch notes here, but they're too extensive and exceed the 40,000 (heh) character limit of the forum. There's a lot of small changes to quests, unit bugs and behavior fixes, building chains in some cities being wrong and so on and so forth. I'll add if I find anything particuarly interesting after I've read it all.
Along with this are some nice changes to Bretonnia, specifically their tech tree which now has several decrees related to the new factions added in Warhammer 2. It also includes new researches that improve their units as well as some new unique buildings to construct in Bretonnian and Empire provinces.
Also, along with the release of the Tomb Kings race, Tretch Craventail will be added for free as a new Skaven lord, starting in Naggaroth.
Post by: Tack on January 18, 2018, 11:58:28 am
Not what I would have expected.
Post by: umiman on January 18, 2018, 12:52:45 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 18, 2018, 09:38:45 pm
3500 dead Norscans dead out of 5900.
I learned today that you come in as a reinforcing army if outside the town.
Managed to actually push the Norse off the walls despite that, though.
Four stacks of Varg have been broken.
Now I have to deal with Chaos.
Post by: scriver on January 19, 2018, 01:09:49 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on January 19, 2018, 01:51:35 pm
In warhammer lore, are "mummy" undead like the tomb lords fully sentient?
The leaders definitely are, not sure about their basic skeletons.
Post by: Teneb on January 19, 2018, 04:03:38 pm
It's hazy for the commoners. As in, I don't think it was ever adressed by GW. I like to think they are, though, even if perhaps limited in comparison to their rulers.In warhammer lore, are "mummy" undead like the tomb lords fully sentient?The leaders definitely are, not sure about their basic skeletons.
Post by: thvaz on January 19, 2018, 08:28:00 pm
It's hazy for the commoners. As in, I don't think it was ever adressed by GW. I like to think they are, though, even if perhaps limited in comparison to their rulers.In warhammer lore, are "mummy" undead like the tomb lords fully sentient?The leaders definitely are, not sure about their basic skeletons.
I read somewhere that they are more "conscious" than vampire counts' undeads, but not quite as sentient as the tomb kings. They conserve some part of their soul, while vampires counts' are just animated corpses, husks controlled by the will of their master.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 20, 2018, 07:03:24 am
It's hazy for the commoners. As in, I don't think it was ever adressed by GW. I like to think they are, though, even if perhaps limited in comparison to their rulers.In warhammer lore, are "mummy" undead like the tomb lords fully sentient?The leaders definitely are, not sure about their basic skeletons.
I read somewhere that they are more "conscious" than vampire counts' undeads, but not quite as sentient as the tomb kings. They conserve some part of their soul, while vampires counts' are just animated corpses, husks controlled by the will of their master.
Pretty much this.
Vampires use magic to make armies.
Tomb kings and their people have their souls trapped to their bodies for eternity because of a curse.
Post by: Tack on January 23, 2018, 03:16:41 am
Steam says RotTK releases at midnight. CA said there'd be no rolling release.
WTF is going on. I somehow doubt Australia is the standard at which they'll pin their timing.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 23, 2018, 04:01:53 am
Post by: dennislp3 on January 23, 2018, 05:20:44 am
Post by: Tack on January 23, 2018, 05:41:38 am
Post by: dennislp3 on January 23, 2018, 06:16:24 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 23, 2018, 05:54:07 pm
Spoiler: "Normal Ones" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "Cheeky Ones" (click to show/hide)
Also good god what happened to my formatting for this post it decided to shart itself
Post by: Mech#4 on January 23, 2018, 08:09:38 pm
Post by: Teneb on January 23, 2018, 08:16:28 pm
In my lord selection screen, for some reasons Balthasar Gelt has a winning smile and sunglasses. I assume some mods having a laugh, got one from me.It's one of Cataph's mods, though I don't know which.
I am greatly enjoying his overhaul (Boyz Will Be Boyz), though.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 23, 2018, 08:25:52 pm
Also, the first quest for Settra the Imperishable's campaign has only a fraction of his epic list of titles and it is glorious.
Post by: umiman on January 23, 2018, 08:35:40 pm
Ah, so they're the culprit.According to the devs they wanted to do a long one but decided not to go with that.
Also, the first quest for Settra the Imperishable's campaign has only a fraction of his epic list of titles and it is glorious.
Lol (https://i.redd.it/u1btqo6o5vb01.png)
Post by: Majestic7 on January 24, 2018, 01:13:51 am
Now I'm just left grumbling about all the things that could be in the game but aren't. I don't think the modders can fix them either.
Post by: Tack on January 24, 2018, 02:28:01 am
Considering remaking so at least they'll have the TK's to contend with.
But then I might as well just play TK's.
Edit: Not sure if this has happened to anyone else but Warhammer II just cleared itself off my hard drive and is reinstalling.
All 30 gig.
Post by: thvaz on January 24, 2018, 03:04:44 am
I wonder if I'm getting old and grumpy, but the shitty diplomacy and inability to trade regions is rubbing me the wrong way more and more. Yeah yeah, I know it is Total War with focus on war, but if diplomacy does nothing, what is the point of having it in the game at all? Other than a button to confederate. I've started a game with the snake mummy girl, got friendly with Teclis and ugh... It's just annoying I can't trade with him to complete provinces or really do anything. Basically killing everything is the best way to play because it has the least annoyances. This is not limited to allies, as sometimes you'd like to feed your vassals some settlements you don't want. Especially ones with bad climate to you. That would actually make vassals of different species useful.
Now I'm just left grumbling about all the things that could be in the game but aren't. I don't think the modders can fix them either.
Yeah, it is kind of of a pity since the rest of the game is usually so good. Playing as Sethra I was trying to befriend the Brettonian crusaders to trade, raising my reputation with them ( was around 15 or such). I crushed the savage orcs close to me and was suddenly without enemies to fight. THE AI apparently decided someone had to be in war with me and the crusaders declared war on me out of the blue.
Post by: Tack on January 25, 2018, 07:47:15 pm
Which somehow is exactly how I wanted to play.
Yeah I deliberately avoided reading/seeing all of the lead-up information, so you're likely to see a lot of these.
The books of Nagash seem like an excuse to go way further from my borders than I ever actually will.
Post by: ArchAIngel on January 26, 2018, 12:42:20 am
I looked at that early faction Settra's supposed to friend, and it didn't have it on the list, so...
Post by: Mech#4 on January 26, 2018, 01:16:32 am
Possibly Khatep, though being exiled by Settra the Imperishable would give pause to the other lords, as well as being partly responsible for their current unlife.
Post by: Grim Portent on January 26, 2018, 08:01:21 am
Also I can't help but feel that in battle they're basically VCs with far less useful magic support. All the regen stuff they have is so minor that it has barely any impact on a battle.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 26, 2018, 08:36:37 am
I've been having fun with the chariots. Getting nice charges off with them and breaking enemy units can see them gain around 100 kills. Though the lack of healing hurts their use over a longer battle. I've also had troubles with the chariots charging. They don't seem to always accelerate when charging, bumping into a unit and pretty much stopping, especially if the unit is skirmishing like an archer unit.
An interesting thing with the chariots is the ranged ones are a direct upgrade of the melee ones. There is no statistical difference between the two other than the archer chariots having bows.
Some of their magic I've had good use of. The lore of Nehekhara has got very nice buffs but most of them are single unit. Pha's Protection from the lore of Light is probably my most commonly cast spell, that and Banishment. Usekhp's Incantation of Dessication looks really nice with -44 melee attack and -27 melee defense in an area.
Post by: Burnt Pies on January 26, 2018, 08:42:59 am
An interesting thing with the chariots is the ranged ones are a direct upgrade of the melee ones. There is no statistical difference between the two other than the archer chariots having bows.
Bear in mind that there's hidden stats too. While I also suspect that the ranged chariots are flat out superior, it's possible that there's a difference in attack delay between the two.
Attack delay is probably one of the more important hidden stats. It's why halberds aren't quite as killy as their stats make them look, unless you're fighting large and the extra attack/damage tips the balance and makes them better than great weapons.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 26, 2018, 11:12:48 am
On the regeneration for the Tomb Kings, I was reminded that the Lore of Nehekhara has a passive that gives healing and resurrection whenever you're casting a spell. "The Restless Dead" greatly heals all of your units mapwide as well as resurrects units for 7 seconds. I haven't played enough to really see if it makes much of a difference but it's something to encourage usage of those single unit buffs.
If this does make a big difference, than, what with the limited number of Liche Priests you can have (7 +1 from the First Book of Nagash I think), having a Liche Priest with Lore of Nehekhara would be better than the other lores.
I just looked over the books of Nagash and the sixth book is how you get Shadow lore Liche Priests. Also, the eigth book improves commandments by 50%. I'm 168 turns into my game and I haven't gotten any of them yet.
Post by: Tack on January 26, 2018, 11:18:41 am
Post by: thegoatgod_pan on January 26, 2018, 11:38:03 pm
Yes but the reali question is- does Teclis get that passive too?
Would it make sense for him to? As I recall the table top, healing from buffs was pretty much the TK's thing (alongside awesome archery and cool giant monster statues)
Post by: Mech#4 on January 27, 2018, 12:10:59 am
Yes but the reali question is- does Teclis get that passive too?
Bloody elves. Don't even have the common decency to stay dead when you kill them.
I had a bit of a closer look at "The Restless Dead". From what I can see it heals about 200 health over the 7 seconds, so not that much really. Seems like the lore needs to be used like in the tabletop and you should keep buffing units as often as you can to get the heal benefit. The Tomb Kings do have some seemingly very powerful items for increasing magic power during battles such as, though I haven't used it, "Neferra's Scrolls of Mighty Incantations" which increases power reserve and recharge rate proportional to how many friendly units are within range when using it. There's also the "Casket of Souls" that increases power reserve as well.
Post by: umiman on January 27, 2018, 04:42:51 am
Post by: Mech#4 on January 27, 2018, 05:23:36 am
Edit: Looking about a bit more, the last skill in the Tomb King lord's red skill tree, "Resurrect", seems to heal a much larger amount of health for all units within 55m. It's also reusable which would make it very nice during longer battles.
I have to mention that the Lore of Nehekhara buffs are very good. Casting "Djaf's Incantation of Cursed Blades" and "Neru's Incantation of Protection" on a Necrosphinx I was able to cut through 2 other Necrosphinx's as well as a Hierotitan. The archer buff "Ptra's Incantation of Righteous Smiting" is also very nice against constucts with it's increase to armour piercing.
Post by: umiman on January 30, 2018, 10:44:46 am
TK need gold for everything and they have so little of it. It's unnerving.
Post by: Teneb on January 30, 2018, 10:59:08 am
Fucking hell, you'd think making money would come easier to a group of peoples who spent their entire lives and unlives burying gold and wealth with them.Their tombs did get looted by pretty much everyone.
TK need gold for everything and they have so little of it. It's unnerving.
Also: have Settra embark and listen. "Settra surfs!"
Post by: dennislp3 on January 30, 2018, 10:11:23 pm
One technology you can research in the last dynasty I believe is "xxxxxx's lost gold" and the description is how they found a large amount of gold...and then proceeded to layer statues with the gold.
Post by: umiman on January 31, 2018, 01:24:14 am
Also note they are terrible at spending money in logical ways.Heh, that makes sense then.
One technology you can research in the last dynasty I believe is "xxxxxx's lost gold" and the description is how they found a large amount of gold...and then proceeded to layer statues with the gold.
---------------
I'm having a lot of fun with Arkhan right now in Mortal Empires.
It's... surprisingly difficult considering how you're limited in the troops you want, so you always have to use something that isn't optimized. Which honestly I think is the way the games should be anyway. I could imagine if I could just build whatever I want this campaign would be a steamroll to easy victory, but I constantly have no money, no jars, no spare agents, etc. etc. It's fun.
Though I will say I haven't bothered using any of Arkhan's undead units past the beginning. This is because he doesn't get any upgrades towards them, so their utility drops once you get upgrades to all your other units. Before that point they're really useful though, especially the dogs. I haven't been able to afford Hexwraiths but that should be a power jump.
What I have noticed is that because of the TK's free army thing, after you unlock your 3rd (or honestly late into your second army) army, you basically skyrocket to the top of the power chart. So no one dares to declare war on you. This is completely misleading since my armies are just garbage skellies as I haven't built a single high tier unit building despite having conquered Khemri and retaken my Black Tower. Seriously, the best unit I can manually recruit are chariots.
I tell you, fighting a Necrosphinx and three units of Ubshanti with just skelly spears is quite amusing. By amusing I mean horrendously terrifying. Thank Ptra skelly archers are actually good.
If I were to give a tip to anyone thinking of starting a VH Tomb King run, I highly, HIGHLY, recommend getting the red line skill tree for all your lords at the start. You desperately need to buff your skellies or every battle will become a desperate uphill climb.
Also maybe consider using your first 5k gold to activate the rite that gives you the free artillery unit. It's expensive as balls, but that arty is god tier and buffs your magic pool by a huge amount.
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 31, 2018, 01:37:09 am
If I were to give a tip to anyone thinking of starting a VH Tomb King run, I highly, HIGHLY, recommend getting the red line skill tree for all your lords at the start.That's true of every race and lord.
Post by: umiman on January 31, 2018, 02:27:23 am
Not necessarily. You absolutely don't need it for Lizardmen for example and you're better off going up the yellow line for when your Saurus unlocks his Carnosaur. Same for Chaos, who basically completely skip over the entire first-half of the tech tree to focus on elite, late-game units. Where all their lords are basically one-man armies.If I were to give a tip to anyone thinking of starting a VH Tomb King run, I highly, HIGHLY, recommend getting the red line skill tree for all your lords at the start.That's true of every race and lord.
There are also lords like Teclis where going red line early instead of magic is... questionable. Hybrid lords like Vlad and his bald son as well.
Not to say that you couldn't play Teclis and completely ignore magic. But it'd be a very odd decision on your part. And it's not like High Elf units are so trashcan they're useless unless you buff them, which is what is happening with Tomb King skellies, who happen to have the same stats as the worst unit in the game. Bretonnian peasants. Hell, they actually have less leadership than Bretonnian peasants, which is grounds for saying they're worse than the worst unit in the game.
The red line buffs give them 18 armour and 40% extra melee defense so they at least become Empire swordsmen level and not complete garbage. And it's not like you can decide not to use skellies.
Post by: Il Palazzo on January 31, 2018, 02:52:40 am
With two armies, your lords are spending less time moving between whatever needs to be dealt with, and more time fighting. This in turn means that in no time you'll have enough experience to start filling those other skill trees too.
If I need a mage or a combatant, I just embed a hero and upgrade their stats accordingly.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 31, 2018, 06:06:17 am
As for Tomb Kings; after uniting all the lands south of the Badlands (Except the dwarf gold expedition) I've begun heading north but I've hit a bit of a snag. The Wood Elves have expanded quite a bit and I've been having big problems actually fighting them. They out shoot me, my infantry's too slow, my constructs are big targets and my chariots are too brittle. So far I think I'm going to have to rely on Nehekhara Horsemen to chase them all down as armies of skirmishes and fast cavalry are requiring me to face each of their armies with 2 of my own. It's painful.
Post by: Tack on January 31, 2018, 06:24:31 am
Also my Settra has a charge bonus of +180
Post by: Teneb on January 31, 2018, 07:20:49 am
TK skeleton archers are pretty trash, too (and I used them against savage orcs, who have no armour at all). Have to rely on chariot micro to keep going until I can get any mid-game unit.
Post by: umiman on January 31, 2018, 07:28:51 am
I would usually go into the red line if I'm not going to be using the lord for dueling such as Queek or Grimgor.After many centuries of suffering under the yoke of Wood Elf tyranny, I have been able to devise a universal strategy that works for every race and faction against this blight against the world.
As for Tomb Kings; after uniting all the lands south of the Badlands (Except the dwarf gold expedition) I've begun heading north but I've hit a bit of a snag. The Wood Elves have expanded quite a bit and I've been having big problems actually fighting them. They out shoot me, my infantry's too slow, my constructs are big targets and my chariots are too brittle. So far I think I'm going to have to rely on Nehekhara Horsemen to chase them all down as armies of skirmishes and fast cavalry are requiring me to face each of their armies with 2 of my own. It's painful.
It's the final solution.
1. Wood Elf recruitment, income, and power all are based only in Athel Loren. It doesn't matter how many outposts they have, everything is based on Athel Loren.
2. Trying to invade Athel Loren while the elves are actually in there is suicide.
3. What you need to do is let the elves do their crazy "conquer the whole world" phase that they do after they confederate themselves.
4. Then while their 4 or 5 stacks are out conquering say... Norsca, you sweep in with two fullstacks of as much arty and heavy armour troops you can get.
5. This is because they are weighted really heavily in autoresolve.
6. Then you burn the undefended Athel Loren to the ground.
7. GG NO RE no more Wood Elf problem.
Also they're pretty trash at sieging you, so as long as you sit behind your walls you should be relatively okay. Just know they'll snipe all your units defending the walls.
-------------
I swear fighting against the AI as Wood Elves is the worst. Their micro is insane with that faction. It's not that they're impossible to beat, but rather every fight takes so long and you lose so many units. It's a true battle of attrition.
If you actually want to fight them mano-a-mano, then from my experience cavalry is not the answer (unless it's like dogs or Beastmen or something, which are hyperspeed fast). If cavalry was the answer then Bretonnia would have a super easy time against WE. On the contrary they are awful against them.
I found the best answer is to fight them with ranged units. Yes, it sounds patently stupid, but the only thing the AI can't do with Wood Elf micro is it doesn't know how to focus fire its units. So I found the best way to actually fight them is to group as many ranged units as I can spare and snipe all their ranged, while having my melee troops hold off theirs. No need to chase them all over the map.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 31, 2018, 08:22:31 am
Post by: umiman on January 31, 2018, 08:32:49 am
Hnn, my sense of honour dictates that I must beat them in the field rather than cut their forest down while they're not home. If I'm to beat them, I must do so properly otherwise my victory could be brought into question. Good advice though, thanks. I will take it into consideration.Well, the reason Beastmen are amazing at slaughtering them is because they're all super fast and super killy in huge numbers. Also their boars.
So if you're super fast, you should do well.
I don't think any TK unit fits that requirement though so... good luck and let us know if you come across any new tactics against them. I'd certainly want to know. I hate those assholes.
Post by: Grim Portent on January 31, 2018, 05:45:50 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on February 01, 2018, 12:09:21 am
Full armies of Ushabti are hilarious to watch.
Post by: umiman on February 01, 2018, 05:28:34 am
I found this to also be the case...I have never had as many armies as I have at once with the TK. They are definately a snowball faction...especially once you pass up basic units for Ushabti/Tomb Guards.I kinda prefer Stalkers myself. They seem tankier for some reason. They're also bigger, heh.
Full armies of Ushabti are hilarious to watch.
They have some kind of ranged attack but I can't figure out what are the specific conditions to get them to fire. Sometimes they shoot and sometimes they'll just walk into melee range instead.
------------
I had a really, really awesome final battle as Arkhan vs Settra.
Settra only had one town left (though I kinda left him alone up there for quite awhile while I conquered everything to the Southeast) so I waltz up there with Arkhan and his silly stack of starting units. I figure it'd be a cakewalk, since he probably has no units left. However, I end my turn out of sight of the town as I ran out of movement points.
End the turn.
Settra attacks me with two and a half stacks of units. Oh shit. Tomb Guards, warriors, Ushabti, catapult, chariots, etc. etc. You name it. I don't even know where the fuck he summoned these troops from. His last town can't possibly have all those recruitment buildings.
Nevermind. It's fine. I've fought harder battles before. Jump into the battle.
The enemy's reinforcements are coming right from my left hand side. Awesome. I can just cut them off there, rout the army, and turn to fight the main force. Easy.
The sheer enormous tide of units coming in from the left hand side completely overwhelmed all my guys, pushing straight through. I had units trapped in pockets all over the left side fighting on all sides. I think it's some kind of miracle they haven't completely crumbled. My archers are no longer archering. My poor casket of souls is now dying to Ushabti. One thing I completely forgot. Tomb Kings aren't alive. They don't rout. They don't flee in panic when losing. They fight to the death. This plan to quickly get rid of them was idiotic.
But it's okay. We're surrounded and isolated on every side, but we're somehow winning. My units have more experience and stats than theirs. I can defeat them with some rear charges by my scorpion, my chariots, Arkhan, and my Necrotect. Arkhan's chariot lets him somehow float through enemy units so it's damn good for this situation.
We kill off a huge number of skellingtons, enough to let the enemy proc their Ushabti spawn. They spawn it on some of my chariots, which is hilarious as I leave them in the middle of the desert.
Then comes Settra. At the worst possible time. He's an anti-Arkhan missile and zooms straight to my lord, who's been keeping the entire army alive thanks to the Tomb Blade AOE regeneration, and his AOE regeneration skill, and his casting spell AOE regeneration skill.
BAM!
Arkhan takes 50% of his health in damage from the one charge. It's insane. Fucking spamming Spirit Leech on Settra trying to kill him. Send the Necrotect in to help fight him off. Send the frigging scorpion in as well. Send in the RoR skelly spears with poison attacks.
The rest of Settra's army smashes in. My army is in shambles. At this point it's basically just Arkhan, the necrotect, the scorpion, the RoR skelly, RoR archers, and like... a Tomb Guard left alive. Versus a thousand-something skellingtons. The only reason these guys were alive is because they're the only guys within Arkhan's neverending regen AOE. Arkhan himself is constantly bordering on crumbling.
After like.... 8 Spirit Leeches, Settra finally collapses. A small victory, but a victory nonetheless. But the battle is not yet won. I group all my units into a tight little ball and hope for the best. Can a hundred or so bones defeat a thousand if there's enough regeneration? There's still Ushabti, probably the guys who spawned in the middle of nowhere. There's still heroes running around. I start micro-ing Arkhan like mad, using his phasing ability to constantly smash through lines, taking care not to move him too far from the circle or the regen will end.
Finally. After killing another 500 or so bones. Everything starts to crumble.
Victory.
The only things remaining are Arkhan, the Necrotect, and the scorpion.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on February 01, 2018, 08:14:32 am
Settra's charge statistic is incredible. Tack mentioned he had Settra with 180 Charge Bonus. I have Settra currently sitting at 193 though I think it' supposed to be a bit higher. +30 bonus from the combat skill tree, +6 for Fearless trait, +20 from Golden Eye of Rah-nutt talisman item, +10% from Trampler of the Ages, +12% from Immortal King of Nehekhara and +8% from the Crown of Nehekhara item. Settra the freight train indeed.
Settra's speed is at 98 currently. I might see if I can increase that some more as well.
Post by: umiman on February 01, 2018, 09:05:27 am
But if you want part of them back, there's a mod here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1285032358&searchtext=
I don't recommend it though, the audio balance is a little wonky and it only has like... 3 lines when there are way more in the game.
----------
Incidentally, I figured out how stalker ranged attacks work.
They're basically shotguns. They won't fire (most of the time) if there's allied units in the way and will walk into melee instead, but if it's a clear shot (or it decides that it's suddenly fine to obliterate your own troops) it will blast huge holes in the enemy lines.
Reminds me of revolver cavalry from FotS. Except here it's in monster unit form.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 12, 2018, 11:44:10 pm
Along with signing up you can get 2 free games on your Steam account, I saw someone mention that they got Revenge of Shinobi and Streets of Rage 2.
The way it seems to be working this year is all the participating games have a combined hours played target. Upon reaching this target all involved will recieve a pack of content. This first rounds pack includes "Viking: Battle for Asgard", "The Grim and the Grave" DLC for Warhammer 1 and 75% off Dawn of War 2: Retribution. The target hours played is 650,000 hours.
I believe there was comments from Creative Assembly about a multiplayer map pack for Warhammer 2 being part of the event, though which day that would be available I don't know.
Post by: Tack on February 13, 2018, 04:02:51 am
Bonus.
Post by: Mech#4 on February 14, 2018, 12:04:18 pm
First up is a patch. It seems to focus on some of the smaller issues people were reporting such as projectile spam from casters, some battle maps having display issues and the Tomb King basic skeletons not having the proper audio playing.
Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
Second up is the release of a small piece of FLC. The "Steps of Isha" map pack. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/781190/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Steps_of_Isha/) I assume this is the multiplayer map pack that was mentioned previously, though I thought it was to be released as a reward for the event.
Spoiler: Steam Page information (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on February 20, 2018, 10:10:20 am
Post by: thvaz on February 20, 2018, 07:58:27 pm
In non-Warhammer but still Total War news... we get another DLC for Rome 2? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhKhntVPbZ0) I didn't see this one coming. It's a faction DLC for the Grand Campaign, adding playable Masaesyli, Kush, Saba and Nabatea.
And a new patch adding female leaders.
Post by: Tack on February 20, 2018, 11:12:06 pm
Post by: thvaz on February 21, 2018, 07:33:41 am
I thought the main selling point of boudacia and Joan were their unconventionalism..
It looks like most of the woman will keep themselves only in the politics. Only some cultures will allow them to raise to faction leaders and ( I am not sure) generals.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on February 21, 2018, 01:25:12 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 21, 2018, 01:55:34 pm
wasnt there already some kind of desert faction thing for Rome 2? i seem to remember playing one of my rome 2 campaigns as some east africans with insane heavy infantryMaybe you're thinking about Attila?
Post by: ZeroGravitas on February 22, 2018, 09:45:25 am
wasnt there already some kind of desert faction thing for Rome 2? i seem to remember playing one of my rome 2 campaigns as some east africans with insane heavy infantryMaybe you're thinking about Attila?
ha! yes, you're absolutely right. aksum in attila.
i'll be curious to see how much art overlap there is between the "Empires of Sand" attila factions and the "Desert Kingdoms" in rome 2
Post by: Mech#4 on April 17, 2018, 11:44:43 am
However, a post has been made sharing a new unit planned for the Dwarfs, this being Giant Slayers. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/217106/tuesday-newsday-warhammer-ii-giant-slayers/p1) Essentially Slayers armed with great weapons, comparing the two units Giant Slayers have higher Melee Attack at 50 and Charge Bonus at 33 but lower Melee Defense at 30 and Weapon Strength at 43.
It seems a little odd, since both units currently would fufill the same role of anti-large. However, perhaps Slayers are being changed to anti-infantry?
Creative Assembly mention that there's some more changes planned for Dwarfs and I believe they said there would be a Lord pack coming around the release of Norsca, "late May".
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on April 17, 2018, 01:41:02 pm
Post by: Tack on April 17, 2018, 04:11:13 pm
Giant Slayers. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/217106/tuesday-newsday-warhammer-ii-giant-slayers/p1)Besides a Dragon Slayer hero, Great weapon slayers feel like the one thing which was missing.
My guesses are they’ll both be anti-large, just that one will be armor piercing.
Because war machines are Everywhere now, i’m Sure.
Post by: umiman on April 17, 2018, 10:39:51 pm
Post by: Burnt Pies on April 18, 2018, 05:08:04 pm
Amusingly, I suspect the regular Slayers will be better against Giants than the Giant Slayers are. Giants are a low armour unit, and it's quite possible that normal Slayers will be able to avoid damage more effectively while still dishing out similar damage numbers due to their higher weapon damage.
Post by: Tack on April 18, 2018, 08:36:44 pm
If Ungrim Ironfist gets transferred over to be the LL of Karak Kadrin, i’ll be giddy.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 25, 2018, 09:43:47 am
While, personally, I haven't had major problems with it. I have seen other people remarking on the limited access Skaven have to aquiring more food, ending with their games spent mostly in the red/starvation. The only steady increase is from pasture buildings while other methods are from raiding and defeating armies. Indeed, a method I used frequently was to raid my own provinces, gaining three food each turn and then killing off the rebel armies that spawned for about 12-15 more food.
I suppose a big part of it depends on how Creative Assembly meant for the Skaven to play. Myself, because of the limited food, I would only take specific regions around the map, ending up in lots of provinces of which I only hold one region within. This meant I wasn't gaining access to the provincal declaration or the full benefits of Skaven buildings like the generator. Though I must say the scattered nature of my strongholds, as well as the spreading of corruption because of this, felt quite Skaven-like.
Post by: nenjin on April 25, 2018, 01:12:06 pm
Really enjoyed it, even though I had to buy it as DLC. I loved all the flavorful little mechanics and events, that really expressed how the Warherd operates.
Sadly I feel like the end of the campaign is a bit of an anti-climax. My biggest foes the whole game were teh Greenskins (who were in my way as I had to rampage my way up from the Southern Badlands to the Border Princes and eventually the Empire) and the Dwarves, who were the first of the factions I needed to kill that I encountered.
The Dwarves didn't put up much of a fight, other than repeatedly confederating to try to stay in the game and annoy me. The Orks however just harrassed me the entire game, chasing me with up to 6 20 stacks across every domain and province until I was forced to turn and slay almost everyone of them.
After....230 turns of this, I'd finally eliminated the dwarves.....and there's exactly one Empire province remaining about a turn away, since the Vampire Counts took over literally the entirety of the Empire.
Maybe it's just the curse of the 4x game but the ride there was way, way more engrossing than the destination.
If I have one major gripe about the game as a SP 4x campaign....it's that reclaiming razed settlements in a single turn is kind of BS, especially when you're playing a raider race. Sure the villages and outposts aren't a big deal but major capitals like Karaz-A-Karak are insanely valueable and get a full garrison the instant you reclaim in. I spent a good portion of my game just trying to keep the dwarves and the orks from reclaiming settlements as soon as I'd razed them. Half of the expansion of the Greenskins was directly due to my successes, as they'd just hoover up new settlements in the wake of the warherd, then spawn new guys from those settlements to come attack me.
If you get a settlement and a free garrison, it should take longer than the however many movement points it took you to get there. The time it takes to reclaim the settlement should be based on your army size, the size of the settlement and any other appropriate modifiers. Because yes, it should take far less time to destroy something than to rebuild it.
Post by: Folly on April 25, 2018, 04:31:31 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2018, 07:04:27 pm
I never got TW:Warhammer 2, partly because it was released like a week after the first game. But also because the first game had a lot of poorly explained and counter-intuitive mechanics that left me save-scumming a lot and spending hours just to pass a single turn. Is the sequel any better in these regards?(bolding mine)
It was released slightly over a year after the first, though. As for your question, you'll need to be more specific as to which mechanics.
Post by: Tack on April 25, 2018, 07:13:00 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 26, 2018, 09:52:30 am
Most of my save scumming came from movement issues. I had to do some playing around to get the right positioning to get the reinforced battle I wanted. Other times you'd be *just* too short to initiate a fight because the AI knows your movement range and would sit just outside of it. Other times it was getting intercepted at really inopportune times when trying to use Beast Path movement.
Or not being able to start a siege because the army that initiated didn't have a siege weapon available (which for Beastmen is apparently just Giants.) (Why you need siege engines when your heroes and regular units can just beat down the front door is beyond me. Battering Rams are completely worthless from what I can see.)
And then there are plenty of reloads when auto-resolve, even modded, nukes the weakest units that you probably could have kept alive playing the battle normally.
Finally, a lot of save scumming happened due to the AI, that would make very specific choices based on what you do or don't do. For example, I tried to blockade Karaz-a-Karak so the orks couldn't take it after I'd razed it, choked up the pass with 5 armies....and watched an ork lord just waltz through ALL my zones of control to go straight to the city and retake it. Reloaded, moved my blockade around slightly and next turn they didn't bother.
So yeah. Some issues for sure. But having played both TW1 and 2 in about a month.....TW2 does seem the better game overall.
Post by: Levi on April 26, 2018, 10:05:28 am
Is the map at least different?
Post by: nenjin on April 26, 2018, 11:18:03 am
Other than that there are differences but I didn't play TW1 deep enough to notice what they were compared to 2.
FWIW the only reason I started in on TW2 is because a friend bought me both, and after a couple hours with TW1 to get my bearings I went to 2. And I see no reason to go back.
Post by: Persus13 on April 26, 2018, 11:28:00 am
Is there enough different in TW2 from TW1 to make it worth buying you think? I had fun with TW1, but I'm not sure of getting TW2 in case its pretty much the exact same game.TW2 takes place on a different set of continents with a different set of races, so if that's what you meant by a different map, then yes. If you own both games there's an option to play with the combined maps of the first game and the second game, which I think is what nenjin is referring to.
Is the map at least different?
The playable races are also completely different. Instead of having Humans, Orcs, Dwarfs, and Undead playable like in Warhammer 1 you have Ratmen, High Elves, Dark Elves, and Lizardmen.
Post by: Levi on April 26, 2018, 11:30:11 am
Post by: nenjin on April 26, 2018, 12:09:00 pm
I don't know if the base campaign for TW2, the Magic Vortex or w/e, has a similar doom clock. I was more interested in playing the big combined campaign with all the races than the newer one with just Elves, Lizards and Rats.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 26, 2018, 12:54:58 pm
Tomb Kings ignore the vortex ritual and have their own large battle at the Black Pyramid of Nagash.
The map for the base Warhammer 2: Total War Vortex campaign. (https://i.redd.it/g8mxod4zq8a01.jpg)
The map for the Mortal Empires campaign. Available if you own both Warhammer 1 and 2. (https://i.redd.it/piee05srmysz.png)
Note: The Mortal Empire map above is from before the Tomb Kings were added.
Post by: Levi on April 26, 2018, 01:11:04 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 01, 2018, 10:35:53 pm
Post by: umiman on May 08, 2018, 11:36:05 am
1. Ungrim's been moved to his proper start location.
2. Dwarfs are getting some pretty nifty new toys, including what seems to be crafting.
Post by: thvaz on May 08, 2018, 12:21:29 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 08, 2018, 06:08:15 pm
DLC info also kinda leaked, it is going to be The Queen and the Crone. Alarielle and Hellebron probably, along with new units for High and Dark Elves and possibly RoR for them.The leak was voice actor credits, including one for Shadow Walkers, which is the hero version of Shadow Warriors. So we're getting both at least. No idea what's on the DElf end of things.
Post by: ArchAIngel on May 09, 2018, 09:41:10 am
So...Oooh, sauce?
1. Ungrim's been moved to his proper start location.
2. Dwarfs are getting some pretty nifty new toys, including what seems to be crafting.
Craftings seems to be VERY fitting for the Dawi, five bucks say Runesmiths/lords are gonna help with it.
Post by: umiman on May 09, 2018, 06:06:16 pm
Here you go: https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/8hwwot/can_you_spot_ungrim_ironfist/So...Oooh, sauce?
1. Ungrim's been moved to his proper start location.
2. Dwarfs are getting some pretty nifty new toys, including what seems to be crafting.
Craftings seems to be VERY fitting for the Dawi, five bucks say Runesmiths/lords are gonna help with it.
Post by: Teneb on May 09, 2018, 06:46:21 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on May 16, 2018, 09:10:36 pm
So, apparently there's been some weird update to the game's Steam Workshop and now there's a chance that any mod that's over 100mb in size will be undownloadable. You can check if you are running into this if you got a Warhammer workshop update in steam that is 0kb and auto-pauses if you try to start it.I THINK it just got fixed, I got a 3MB update from Steam that also set a bunch of my mods to downloading. Could be wrong, though.
Post by: Teneb on May 16, 2018, 09:54:02 pm
It did.So, apparently there's been some weird update to the game's Steam Workshop and now there's a chance that any mod that's over 100mb in size will be undownloadable. You can check if you are running into this if you got a Warhammer workshop update in steam that is 0kb and auto-pauses if you try to start it.I THINK it just got fixed, I got a 3MB update from Steam that also set a bunch of my mods to downloading. Could be wrong, though.
Post by: thvaz on May 17, 2018, 09:46:19 am
FAQ: https://t.co/3xkkznYvgu
It will come alongside Norsca and a free legendary lord for the HE on May 31st.
I think the DLC is somewhat lacking in content (no new lord for HE, no new hero for DE, only 4 new units excluding RoR) but it is also very cheap. You get what you pay for.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 17, 2018, 10:51:47 am
When blood runs in rivers and the air is choked with Death, the chains will break and this monstrous secret will be unleashed."
People are guessing this is another unit that's not been shown yet, being a toss up between the Kharibdyss or the Blood-wrack Medusa. The first would seem more likely since it's similar to a Hydra however the Medusa is more thematically appropriate.
Some of the regiments of renown seem quite neat. There's a unit of Phoenix Guard who burst into fire whenever one of them dies, a unit of Dark Riders mounted on dark pegasi, a war hydra with frostbite and cold breath and a unit of shadow warriors that can fire while remaining hidden as well as an ability "Loec's Shroud" that increases their speed and reduces detection radius.
Spoiler: Regiments of Renown list (click to show/hide)
It's also interesting that Alarielle can recruit units of dryads, treekin and treemen, giving access to some of the Wood Elf units to at least her faction for the high elves.
Both Alarielle and Hellebron also have mechanics during the campaigns which affect their abilities.
Alarielle's strength seems to be tied to the amount of Chaos Corruption within either the world or Ulthuan (it doesn't really say) and also gains bonuses or penalties depending on whether there's enemies within Ulthuan or not.
Hellebron has a mechanic where she loses power unless you use the "Death Night" rite that also summons an indepenent army of Dark Elves you gain the post-battle rewards from.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 18, 2018, 11:38:29 am
It also shows the Sword of Khaine, part of the Update not the DLC. Controlling the Shrine of Khaine you can choose to have a lord (Any lord for the High Elves or Dark Elves, including legendary lords like Tyrion) draw the sword of Khaine. It is super powerful giving several bonuses including unbreakable and +450 Armour Piercing damage. It also has a bound vortex spell that can be used during battles. However, the longer a character uses the sword bigger penalties are gained such as negatives to public order (all provinces) and diplomatic relations (all factions) to begin with.
It also seems that if you have the sword on a character for too long they'll become unable to give it up and will have to be defeated to lose the sword. Whether this means the sword will be stolen by the enemy or returned to the shrine I'm unsure.
There's also this infographic covering all the items coming at the end of the month DLC, FLC and update wise. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/e0/6lfhqdpuvlys.png)
Post by: umiman on May 18, 2018, 12:38:24 pm
Post by: Tack on May 18, 2018, 01:39:17 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 18, 2018, 02:07:25 pm
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 19, 2018, 07:15:19 am
Remember to test how bad it gets by using it on Tyrion with his Blood of Aenerion skill tree. After all, if you're going all in...I wonder if he'll get an "Avatar of Khaine" title like when he pulled the sword during the end times and went nuts.
Post by: cider on May 19, 2018, 11:53:01 am
Post by: umiman on May 19, 2018, 06:08:30 pm
I just want Norsca, to be honest.Yeah I'm not planning to buy this on launch since I have absolutely no interest in playing HE and I already had a really nie long campaign with DE.
But I am super interested in Dwarfs with crafting.
Post by: umiman on May 21, 2018, 10:28:03 am
Yeah baby!
Post by: Wiles on May 21, 2018, 03:10:39 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 21, 2018, 04:11:10 pm
Do any of the fixes or additions they do for the second game get retroactively added to TW:WH1?Doubtful
Post by: Mech#4 on May 22, 2018, 04:20:52 am
Crone Hellebron skill poster (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/3z/tsh413510kwc.jpg)
Alarielle the Everqueen skill poster (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/87/je3re78oq02k.jpg)
Another thing coming with the update was Sartosa was mentioned as being added for the Mortal Empires campaign. I assume this means they're adding it in on the island off the coast of Tilia, where Sartosa actually is, which is currently part of the region of Luccini.
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2018, 02:53:29 pm
(https://i.redd.it/j515v3z3um011.jpg)
And yes, it uses a giant ass-bow.
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2018, 03:46:05 pm
Post by: thvaz on May 28, 2018, 04:06:22 pm
In CA's quest to make the next patch for Warhammer 2 one of the best damn patches in gaming history, not only is everyone getting a buttload of stuff alongside all the bugfixes and so on... Tomb Kings are also getting this bad boy:
(https://i.redd.it/j515v3z3um011.jpg)
And yes, it uses a giant ass-bow.
People are saying it must be edited because the background dont follow the TK sand/desert pattern.
Post by: Teneb on May 28, 2018, 04:46:28 pm
Here is a clip (https://clips.twitch.tv/BoredPatientBunnyResidentSleeper). Look at the army composition. It's a pre-release build so there aren't even any mods that will work with it.In CA's quest to make the next patch for Warhammer 2 one of the best damn patches in gaming history, not only is everyone getting a buttload of stuff alongside all the bugfixes and so on... Tomb Kings are also getting this bad boy:
(https://i.redd.it/j515v3z3um011.jpg)
And yes, it uses a giant ass-bow.
People are saying it must be edited because the background dont follow the TK sand/desert pattern.
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2018, 09:47:22 pm
There's still even more stuff that hasn't been revealed yet including the secret Dark Elf monster alluded to in the DLC previews.
It's gonna be a really massive patch.
Post by: thvaz on May 28, 2018, 10:43:39 pm
Post by: umiman on May 28, 2018, 10:45:19 pm
It is looking really good. But I don't understand why the secrecy from CA.They like to build hype. It's probably their policy on marketing to drip feed content over a few weeks to get the hype train rolling.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 30, 2018, 11:15:47 am
Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
Some interesting things of note is that any of the Elven races can build the Shrine of Khaine. It seems that the first one to build it can take the sword, however, after the lord carrying it is defeated ANY faction lord can choose to take it after battle. Archaon could wield the Sword of Khaine this way which is very neat. I hope there's some way to keep track of it in game.
Some other things that caught my eye was:
Terrain in Nehekhara was changed from Badlands to desert (I assume this is around Khemri).
Naggaroth forest maps have had their tree density reduced (It looked nice but did get in the way a bit, even with the leaves removed).
Realm of Souls for Tomb Kings now heals twice as much.
The mass of several units including Empire cavalry, Blood Knights and Skarsnik and Gobbla have been increased.
The damage auras of the Mortis Engine and Plague Furnace now only activate when engaged in melee.
Thorgrim: Added new Oath of Vengeance ability, allowing Thorgrim to reduce the melee defence of an enemy unit.
Ungrim: Added new Red Ruin ability, allowing Ungrim to trade melee defence for significantly more weapon strength.
Grudges that require assassination of the target have been removed. (These were annoying, especially if it was later on with a high level goblin boss hero).
Legendary Lords will now be recruitable when you confederate with that faction when the Lord is in a wounded state. (This is a nice one. It was kind of annoying having to hold off confederating with Vampire Counts to have all the vampire lords under Vlad).
Added unique army templates for AI faction leaders. (This is cool. I assume this means lords like Ungrim will have more slayers, Hellebron more Witch Elves and the like).
Post by: umiman on May 30, 2018, 11:40:49 am
Post by: thvaz on May 30, 2018, 01:00:06 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on May 30, 2018, 01:07:39 pm
Nothing about the Bone Giant or the secret DE monster?
Nothing in the patch notes. The Dark Elf thingy was mentioned to be revealed post release of the DLC (Being a part of it), the Bone Giant has had no mention anywhere as far as I've seen. Suprise stuff perhaps?
Post by: thvaz on May 30, 2018, 01:10:02 pm
Nothing about the Bone Giant or the secret DE monster?
Nothing in the patch notes. The Dark Elf thingy was mentioned to be revealed post release of the DLC (Being a part of it), the Bone Giant has had no mention anywhere as far as I've seen. Suprise stuff perhaps?
ah, there is this
"Ranald resurgent: new content leaks now seem to happen by default."
Post by: umiman on May 30, 2018, 01:15:02 pm
Haha, man I don't think there's been a single patch or DLC by CA that hasn't been leaked in a few years.Nothing about the Bone Giant or the secret DE monster?
Nothing in the patch notes. The Dark Elf thingy was mentioned to be revealed post release of the DLC (Being a part of it), the Bone Giant has had no mention anywhere as far as I've seen. Suprise stuff perhaps?
ah, there is this
"Ranald resurgent: new content leaks now seem to happen by default."
Post by: Persus13 on May 30, 2018, 02:10:28 pm
Judging from some of the stuff I've heard, the Bone Giant was supposed to be in with the Tomb Kings DLC but got cut for time or something. One of the unique Tomb King buildings allows you to recruit more of them, and leaked concept art has been around for at least a few months.
Post by: Teneb on May 31, 2018, 11:17:57 am
Post by: Mech#4 on May 31, 2018, 12:20:53 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 31, 2018, 12:38:37 pm
Issue should be fixed now. I have Norsca present in the custom game race list. This also includes the addition of the Bone Giant to the Tomb King's DLC. It looks like they combined both the melee and ranged Bone Giants into one unit.It is, and no further patching is required which is nice given how the patching process works.
Post by: umiman on May 31, 2018, 12:51:39 pm
Post by: Persus13 on May 31, 2018, 12:54:59 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 31, 2018, 03:00:57 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 01, 2018, 04:35:40 am
Post by: umiman on June 01, 2018, 11:06:14 am
An interesting thing I've noticed is that Bone Giants are considered undead in the game. The artwork and the ingame model makes them look like a construct similar to the Ushabti. This means they benefit from the army wide heals but don't benefit from the bonuses given by the Necrotect.That can't be intended. Everything from the intro video to the lore text says they're constructs.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 01, 2018, 12:08:34 pm
It's a fun thing to do with a bunch of race lords. They all have various lines for them too.
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2018, 12:53:36 pm
I can only imagine how powerful it could be to a horde faction who doesn't need to care about the downsides.
Post by: umiman on June 01, 2018, 02:05:07 pm
I'm both awed and horrified by the Sword of Khaine. The lord who has it is insanely good at murdering things for me, but even at only step 2 of it's progression it's making it very hard to keep Ulthuan at high public order.Or a legendary AI that has so much positive buffs that it can ignore it.
I can only imagine how powerful it could be to a horde faction who doesn't need to care about the downsides.
Post by: Teneb on June 01, 2018, 02:11:45 pm
I can only imagine how powerful it could be to a horde faction who doesn't need to care about the downsides.Factions that benefit from rebellions (greenskins) seem like would be perfect for the blade
Post by: Grim Portent on June 01, 2018, 02:36:20 pm
Post by: umiman on June 01, 2018, 06:46:55 pm
Post by: thvaz on June 01, 2018, 09:08:28 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on June 02, 2018, 02:21:28 pm
Just found a bug with the Sword of Khaine. I was playing as Alith Anar and got to confederate with Avellorn and Allariele was wielding the sword at the time. The thing is, the game still thinks Avellorn has the sword (though the faction no longer exists) and I have the full power of the sword without any of the downsides. Right now I am trying to lose it to see if the game somehow fixes itself. (and dont waste away my 100 turns ME campaign)So the cure to the madness of Khaine is the power of friendship?
Post by: Grim Portent on June 03, 2018, 08:22:23 am
They don't seem to make the best use of it unless fighting each other around the Shrine.
EDIT: Beastmen seem to be affected by the extended unit training time of harsh climates. While I was in Nagarythe looking for the sword it was taking 2 turns to train Gors, when I walked back to Chrace it was just 1 turn. Never noticed anything like that before.
Post by: thvaz on June 05, 2018, 12:50:32 pm
The next game in the franchise is also in pre-production right now and they gave hints alluding to "dark places".
Post by: Digital Hellhound on June 05, 2018, 01:46:25 pm
It’s got the fun parts of being a raiding and rampaging faction like the Greenskins without the frustrating public order and lesser cash problems (granted, those are largely early-game concerns, but Norsca gets through the early game faster too), with a way better roster. Monster Hunts are cool too.
I’ve got Throgg with an all-monster army right now. Has anyone else tried it? I’ve got Fimir as my front line, Trolls to shock, a Feral Manticore as an aerial harasser, two mammoths, and ice wolves. It’s pretty great, but I do lack ranged and have nothing to assault walls with in siege battles.
Post by: Hanslanda on June 05, 2018, 01:53:17 pm
Post by: umiman on June 05, 2018, 04:24:56 pm
I’ve got Throgg with an all-monster army right now. Has anyone else tried it? I’ve got Fimir as my front line, Trolls to shock, a Feral Manticore as an aerial harasser, two mammoths, and ice wolves. It’s pretty great, but I do lack ranged and have nothing to assault walls with in siege battles.Ranged is a silly little elven strategy.
Real manly monsters simply walk forward and kill everything in the way.
Post by: Teneb on June 06, 2018, 03:10:12 pm
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 06, 2018, 03:20:43 pm
Not Warhammer, but... 3 Kingdoms Cao-Cao trailer, in-engine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhhHecSt3LM).This is obviously all wrong. Cao Cao is not shown to be the Gendo Ikari he was, an there is no mention of the angelic rose-cheeked Liu Bei-sempai and his band of bishounen.
Post by: umiman on June 06, 2018, 03:37:53 pm
Isn't that Liu Bei at the end?Not Warhammer, but... 3 Kingdoms Cao-Cao trailer, in-engine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhhHecSt3LM).This is obviously all wrong. Cao Cao is not shown to be the Gendo Ikari he was, an there is no mention of the angelic rose-cheeked Liu Bei-sempai and his band of bishounen.
Anyway, for people wondering how Dynasty Warriors CA will get, their Q&A explains: (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/three-kingdoms-romanticised-history)
Quote
A big difference is how these iconic heroes behave on the battlefield. By default, we adhere to the romanticised view: these characters can hold their own against hundreds of rank-and-file warriors. They’ll appear as single character units and fight like the heroes from Luo Guanzhong’s epic. In Classic Mode, they’ll appear in battle the way you might expect a classic Total War general to do: they’re only human, and will march into battle at the centre of a bodyguard unit.
In short: by default, characters in Total War: THREE KINGDOMS take centre stage in battle, helping to turn the tide with their flamboyant Wushu martial arts or strategic prowess. But Classic Mode focuses more on historical troop manoeuvres, where victory is defined by superior army composition and battle tactics.
I think that's a great choice. They couldn't have done that better.
Incidentally, they also mentioned one of their advisors is the foremost expert on the period, Rafe De Crespigny. Good stuff. I have high hopes.
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 06, 2018, 04:05:48 pm
Isn't that Liu Bei at the end?Do you see an angelic halo over his head? Do the Cherubs sing hallelujah? Is a peasant delegation blowing him? Did anyone serve him his wife for dinner?
Post by: umiman on June 06, 2018, 04:10:22 pm
Which wife? The one he abandoned to die (repeatedly), the one he abandoned to die, the one he just generally abandoned, or the incestuous one?Isn't that Liu Bei at the end?Do you see an angelic halo over his head? Do the Cherubs sing hallelujah? Is a peasant delegation blowing him? Did anyone serve him his wife for dinner?
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 06, 2018, 04:20:57 pm
Post by: umiman on June 06, 2018, 04:34:56 pm
I meant the wife the random peasant served him when he couldn't find any meat in the house.I thought you were joking, but wtf... (http://the-scholars.com/viewtopic.php?t=7698)
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 06, 2018, 04:51:02 pm
Ahem. Anyway, TW:ROTK, eh? Feels like a step down from Warhammer.
Like you've just seen Lord of the Rings, and then the trailers go: From the visionary director of LoTR - 'Back to the mundane shit: No dragons!'
TW: WH40K would be more like it.
Post by: A Thing on June 06, 2018, 07:17:43 pm
Not Warhammer, but... 3 Kingdoms Cao-Cao trailer, in-engine (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhhHecSt3LM).
0/10 no Cao Cao slaughtering a village that took him as a guest.
Personally, my favorite "wat?" moment from RTK was when one of the descendants (relatives?) of Liu Bei decides it would be better to kill himself and his wife and children to protect his honor instead of surrendering to Wei. This being after pretty much everyone else in Shu had done so.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 07, 2018, 12:54:11 am
(https://www.totalwar.com/blog/the-queen-the-crone-public-beta-patch-update)
Spoiler: Copied from Blog Post (click to show/hide)
The major things amongst this is Crone Hellebron's ability from her swords working as it should, as well as rogue armies spawning during campaigns correctly.
Also, friggin Surtha Ek. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/9f/teckp9qyw1jh.jpg)
Post by: umiman on June 07, 2018, 11:31:18 am
There are some nice bullshots on there though.
Quote
When you go into most battles, you'll be able to choose up to three hero units to bring with you. Because heroes have varying recruitment options, who you choose will determine what kind of units you'll be able to bring to a given battle. You won't be able to pair any generals without consequence though. Three Kingdoms introduces heavier social dynamics between the lead characters. Generals will all have a taste or distaste for the others in their retinue that can affect how they perform in battle. You'll even need to worry about how they feel about themselves, according to Mann.
"We have this satisfaction mechanic which is about how a character feels about where they are in life, like their lot within your faction or an enemy faction, and that's something that's driven by all of these relationships and events that occur in every game."
Quote
Mann explains:"With Total War: Three Kingdoms, we're really pushing the concept of characters, and actually certain characters will be bringing these formations in to get them enabled for the rest of your army. So by default your army potentially can't form a diamond formation with its calvary. But by bringing a high-level strategist in with you, they're actually able to give you those formations, so it's kind of something you progress into as you're playing through the game."
Quote
Besides character appearance, Mann shed some more light on some more differences between the two modes. "Things like random events, certain characters, certain historical events won't be occurring within the [classic] mode because they're more fictional and part of the actual Romance text."
Quote
Historically, agents would pile up over time and required way too much micromanagement, so a change has long been overdue. Gaspar tells me not to worry, but that it's too early to talk details. "It's very exciting. It's going to be very surprising."
Post by: Teneb on June 07, 2018, 06:52:12 pm
Also depressed generals will be a thing, going off those quotes.
(Stuff like adblock and ghostery make PCGamer far more bearable)
Post by: umiman on June 08, 2018, 04:43:18 pm
Whoa...
Insults...
Duels...
Super sexy UI...
Shitty Gwailo pronunciations of our names...
Whoa...
I desperately hope there is Chinese audio though.
But goddamn. Fucking duels. Oh my god.
----
Incidentally, I like that thing on the bottom left that tells you stuff about the battle.
I am curious if they will have flooding mechanics though (or fire). Both were used heavily in Three Kingdoms. For example, here in Xiapi, Cao Cao defeated Lu Bu by drowning his forces.
A very historically accurate representation of the siege: https://youtu.be/uBBVPSsFCUc?t=35s
Post by: MCreeper on June 08, 2018, 04:59:38 pm
Post by: umiman on June 08, 2018, 05:00:21 pm
It's just me, or 8 freaking trebuchets just punched straight trough few meters thick stone wall and promptly collapsed it in one volley? That's the whole new level of "walls are useless". :oThey probably have cheats on to make it move a little faster.
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 08, 2018, 05:10:44 pm
Post by: Persus13 on June 08, 2018, 05:57:02 pm
I desperately hope there is Chinese audio though.They mentioned in an interview they were hoping to target the Chinese market, so there should be an early mod that ports stuff for the Chinese language version if not.
Looks like older version of seiges are back in.
Post by: Culise on June 09, 2018, 09:50:09 am
Post by: thvaz on June 09, 2018, 05:42:41 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on June 20, 2018, 10:41:49 am
It also reveals the new unit for the Queen and the Crone DLC that was being hinted at, the Kharibdyss. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/o9/ii6u607m8xgo.jpg)
Creative Assembly description: "Excelling at munching on other monsters, the Kharibdyss may be slow and lumbering but its poisonous armour-piercing attacks are some of the hardest hitting in the game. Its terrifying presence and abyssal howl reduce the most courageous leaders to mere shadows of their former selves, and even dragons may end up reduced to little more than a mid-battle snack by one of its many mouths."
Patch notes on Creative Assembly's blog. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-patch-notes-the-kharibdyss-update)
Spoiler: Patch Notes (click to show/hide)
Things of note in the patch are;
- All Bretonnian peasant units gaining Expendable.
- Empire Halbadiers gaining Expert Charge Defense instead of Charge Defense vs Large.
- Rogue Armies should spawn normally
- Bone Giant is now a construct and not undead.
- Crone Hellebron's Cursed Blade ability is no longer bugged to deal large amounts of damage over time.
Post by: umiman on June 20, 2018, 02:56:48 pm
Quote
Fashion advisors have been hired for the Hydras
Lol.
Post by: Tack on June 20, 2018, 04:44:58 pm
Currently playing a co-op Orcs n’ Goblins game, so boo. Black Orcs didn’t need the nerf.
Also, as a man who primarily ran Battle Pilgrims, I’m not sure how to feel
Post by: sambojin on June 20, 2018, 06:19:46 pm
Waaaggghh! is now a mapwide ability in battle. And little lords get it in MP. Nice! None of this strategic spearhead stuff, just press the button and charge everything. Yeah, it's a bit weaker, but *everything*.
Little Waaaggh magic got a tiny buff with AP on their magic missile, and cheaper powercost spells for spamming.
Apparently Greenskins aren't only the most balanced race, they're one of the strongest (or something), getting tonnes of minor nerfs across the board, only slightly helped by making BOs a bit faster to recruit. Huh. Were they that strong before? Didn't seem like it.
But +24 attack, +24% speed, +30% charge bonus probably makes up for it. Even gobbo archers and wolfriders can do a bit when you press the big, red Waaaghh! button. Everything becomes an average/good melee troop for 30sec, which really does enhance the versatility and army makeup options for them. Can anyone confirm its actually a flat +24 attack, and not +24% attack? Because the grots all of a sudden seem pretty good with a flat +24 attack, to the point of being amazing for their cost, but only for thirty seconds....
Post by: Tack on June 20, 2018, 06:25:53 pm
Guess that’s a good litmus for the power of a faction though, or at least their auto resolve power.
Post by: Persus13 on June 20, 2018, 06:31:07 pm
Post by: Il Palazzo on June 20, 2018, 06:40:03 pm
Post by: Teneb on June 20, 2018, 07:07:29 pm
Question: If I don't buy the latest DLC, do I still get to capture that silly new sword in battle or what?The sword is not DLC, but patch content. So you can draw/steal it regardless.
Post by: Teneb on July 05, 2018, 05:49:19 pm
Spoiler: Skaven Units (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on July 05, 2018, 07:30:24 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on July 06, 2018, 05:23:05 am
I have found this comment from Grace_CA on Reddit, so tempering some excitement would seem prudent.
"Hi guys – I have to say that some of these VO lines and units were a surprise to me as well… To be honest, our next Lords Pack isn’t due out until 2019 for a start, so while I appreciate the excitement you might want to hang onto it (although our next Campaign Pack will be out this year although not until later in the year).
In terms of the units, it seems as though we’ve had VO lines recorded for every unit we’ve briefly mentioned thinking about doing. With audio, once you’ve got someone in, it makes sense to do as much as possible in one go, so a lot of units that we’ve thought about doing have been recorded in case. All of those have been bundled together and that’s why there may be lines for units which we currently have no plans to do (but that doesn’t mean it’ll never happen).
Hope that makes sense – hate to be a buzzkill, but figured honesty is the best policy here!" (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/8wiiv8/to_add_to_te_recent_skavenleak_which_seem_to_tell/)
Post by: Teneb on July 06, 2018, 08:47:34 am
Post by: umiman on July 06, 2018, 06:05:59 pm
Post by: sambojin on July 07, 2018, 08:47:10 pm
Post by: umiman on July 10, 2018, 02:58:16 pm
Quote
Back in May 2016 when we first launched Warhammer 1 we were treading on some very new and exciting ground for the Total War series. Which if I'm honest was also a little scary not knowing how our passionate fans would take to us dipping our toes into a fantasy setting and trying a few new things that would change up the game as we knew it whilst still trying to remain true to our roots of a deep empire strategy builder with real-time battles.
A few months on and we had received a really positive reception regarding the game’s core design pillar of asymmetric design between our core races. This really started to breed excitement and confidence across the team in our work and particularly in me to keep pushing the DLC design in this direction with the new content team.
Call of the Beastmen marked the games first major DLC drop and gave us a chance to add something new an exciting to experience. I knew early on that beyond the characters and units of the race the pack needed something a little extra to set it apart from what now seems like our very conservative initial races, so mini campaign aside which we have since changed our approach on, the addition of making the Beastmen vanguard deploy en masse as a whole army really changed things up for us. This small but simple inclusion was quite radical at the time for Total War and seems very little now but it set the tone for what we would deliver in the future and allow us to become more experimental and daring in our designs (see Tomb Kings where money was removed from recruiting units). Of course we added much more than that, with hidden encampments, some rather nifty Minotaur rolling attack animations, the Full Moon mechanic and a novel and thematic way to conclude the campaign with the Fall of a Man final battle.
With each subsequent DLC we looked at new ways of adding even more, whether that be through new campaign mechanics like Amber, or Chivalry, the addition of new Legendary Lords with unique faction effects, skills and starting locations, or more complete army rosters with added lores of magic. All the while addressing any bugs and balancing issues. Doing this all had an effect on the time in which it took to create each new pack, whether it be the art time to create the environments and characters, audio to voice them or the design and code to make all the new content function. But in general each project was getting bigger in size, requiring more members of staff to be involved and taking more time to create and test before it was ready for release.
Then came Norsca, the finale of Warhammer 1 and the Foundation update. This was to be the opportunity to create a fitting end to the first game, up the ante for what was to come in Warhammer 2 and go back and spruce up a few of the old cast, in particular Chaos. With Norsca being made at the same time as Warhammer 2 but still using the Warhammer 1 code base, it caused us a whole host of issues when trying to merge them which we have explained at great depth in past blogs and it certainly put us back when first embarking on new content, but it is by no means the reason why our newer DLCs are now taking longer to create.
One of the main contributors in the added time is the addition of Mortal Empires. Having in essence a second grand campaign with 40+ starting characters alongside the Vortex campaign’s 16 simply takes longer for us as a team to build a second startpos, add all the new content and mechanics whilst also doing the same in the Vortex, with its feature set, extras and improvements over Warhammer 1. Each of these massive campaigns certainly has its own unique nuances when being updated and built, whether that be through the geography of the map, available characters and races or missions and events that unfold. We work closely with Games Workshop on all of these plans to ensure they stay true and faithful to the lore, and of course everything is tested and balanced before we can release.
Likewise with the added design depth and flavour of the new campaign and battle mechanics introduced by the second game, all of this adds on that bit of extra time. Things like Army abilities and Rites simply didn't exist in the first game, but they are now staples of what is required now in the current game. The same can be said of the Vortex ritual movies in the campaign and the bold new race mechanics which are diverse across all races and now even stretch to the new individual Lords with the release of the Queen and the Crone.
As a team we want to keep pushing the envelope on design and quality, whilst also bringing you new fresh experiences, but this does come at a cost, and one of time to design and implement. Sure we could do less new things and keep it more like the first game in terms of scope, to keep things coming out at a slightly quicker rate but I think we would be doing you, the lore and ourselves a major disservice.
We also think about user reviews on Warhammer 1 which do complain about the amount of DLC. Obviously we couldn’t add new content to the game without DLC, but we think getting the balance right is important.
Hence this is why we take that bit longer now to get things right, unique and packed full of content. Because believe you me as a gamer myself I know what it feels like to want to get your hands on something new that you have such a passionate interest in and so nothing makes me happier than to get each new DLC released and into your hands as quickly as possible so you can play it for hours on end.
I hope this shows where we as a team have come from with your help and input, how things have changed from game 1 to 2 and where we are heading next in bringing you further deep and meaningful content. Warhammer Fantasy Battles offers so many amazing characters, stories and places, I feel like we have still only scratched the surface in what we can do technically but also the adventures and experiences we can offer you in leading your favourite characters and races.
Rich
Post by: Teneb on July 10, 2018, 04:32:32 pm
Anyway, I hope the campaign pack is for Araby instead of Dogs of War, because only the colonies are in the Vortex map and it would be kind of awkward if that was the case. I do know some people with only TWW2
Post by: Tack on July 10, 2018, 04:59:24 pm
Also, not sure if i’m alone in being fairly lukewarm about rites.
Post by: Levi on July 11, 2018, 12:31:47 pm
>Cult of Pleasure: Boo WAR!
>Har Ganeth: Boo, WAR!
>Clan Rictus: Squeek, WAR!
*Tyrian proceeds to wipe out half of CuP.*
> Cult of pleasure: Peace, please?
*Tyrian kills one stack of ratmen*
>Clan Rictus: Squeek, peace?
*Tyrian lays siege to one city of Har Ganeth.
>Har Ganeth: Peace?
Edit: Also I've got a question. I've been playing for a while and Archaon still hasn't shown up in my game(Mortal Empires). Does he not show up until the last chaos stack has been defeated or something?
Post by: Burnt Pies on July 11, 2018, 03:08:06 pm
Post by: Levi on July 11, 2018, 04:16:34 pm
Archie showing up is dependent entirely on how big your empire is. Last I played, it was 55 total towns to convince him to show up. This is different to how it worked in TWW1, where he'd show up regardless after a set amount of time.
Ahhhh, okay thanks! Yeah that is a lot different than I was expecting.
Post by: Teneb on July 11, 2018, 05:08:36 pm
Post by: Teneb on July 12, 2018, 09:45:33 am
Listing it from the video: It makes the game prettier, adds the hide foliage option, adds family trees, reworks agents, supposedly improves the ai, adds more skills to generals, "and more...".
EDIT: Full notes, I think (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-rome-ii-ancestral-update)
Post by: scriver on July 12, 2018, 11:13:45 am
Post by: Hanslanda on July 13, 2018, 09:46:40 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 13, 2018, 10:25:27 am
Time to be surprise Iceni again. I like to make big armies in Britain, then sail to Egypt and stuff, to start EXTREME long range wars.
Have you, by chance, read the "A Scotsmen in Egypt" let's play? (https://lparchive.org/A-Scotsman-In-Egypt/)
Post by: Teneb on July 13, 2018, 01:10:40 pm
Source (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/222499/next-dlc-and-patch-for-rome-2/p2)
Post by: Hanslanda on July 13, 2018, 01:49:29 pm
Time to be surprise Iceni again. I like to make big armies in Britain, then sail to Egypt and stuff, to start EXTREME long range wars.
Have you, by chance, read the "A Scotsmen in Egypt" let's play? (https://lparchive.org/A-Scotsman-In-Egypt/)
I have not but I will now. I do this sorta thing all the time. Romans in scythia is especially fun.
Post by: Teneb on July 17, 2018, 03:26:24 pm
Spoiler: A New FLC array for TWW2 (click to show/hide)
For Throne of Britannia, it was stated earlier, though I can't find the source now, that the obligatory Blood dlc will be free for people who own the Attila one. Also there's a beta update (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/thrones-of-britannia-allegiance-update-beta) called Allegieance.
Spoiler: Highlights appear to be (click to show/hide)
As if that wasn't enough, there was the monthly "What are we working on" blog post (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-july-2018). From it, we can tell there's going to be apparently some sort of betrayal mechanic in 3 Kingdoms, Rome 2's next DLC will be formally announced soon, and TWW3 is still in preproduction + Chaos jokes.
All in all, Total War is in a pretty good state.
Post by: Tack on July 17, 2018, 04:15:56 pm
Maybe temple guard guy.
Post by: Levi on July 17, 2018, 04:20:29 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 18, 2018, 08:52:35 am
Post by: Teneb on July 18, 2018, 09:07:20 am
I know in the first game there were mods that made all the factions playable. There something similar for the second one yet?Crynsos Faction Unlocker. It is also a requirement of a lot of other mods.
Post by: Persus13 on July 19, 2018, 09:14:52 am
Full Stream (with Trailer) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGIimg9V9pQ)
Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjCP5rDGIcg)
Post by: Teneb on July 19, 2018, 09:54:14 am
Post by: Tack on July 19, 2018, 01:31:41 pm
This is my lifelong dream.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 22, 2018, 09:29:14 am
It also fixes and changes a few other small things, though it is by no means as extensive as the ones that usually come with DLC packs.
Patch notes:
- Reinforcements should now enter the battlefield from the expected direction.
- The Tier 3 and Tier 4 Dark Elf entertainment buildings can now be constructed by those who do not own The Queen and The Crone.
- Fortress Gates, Skavenblight, Hell Pit and Occupied Elven Colonies can now be upgraded by those who do not own Tomb Kings.
- Sisters of Slaughter are now recruited from Tier 3 Halls of Ravaging.
- Tomb Kings’ Skeleton Warriors and Skeleton Spearmen are now available to recruit from the Infantry Level 1 building Open Graves
The change to Tomb Kings is an interesting one. I kind of liked how you could recruit armies of skeletons basically anywhere, but perhaps it was a bit too armies-for-nothing.
Post by: Teneb on August 22, 2018, 11:03:58 am
They didn't fix it so much as they've bypassed it by shunting the Sisters of Slaughter to another building.
- The Tier 3 and Tier 4 Dark Elf entertainment buildings can now be constructed by those who do not own The Queen and The Crone.
- Sisters of Slaughter are now recruited from Tier 3 Halls of Ravaging.
Post by: umiman on September 25, 2018, 07:36:23 pm
Looks like it's a treasure map? So probably announcing Sartosa?
Edit: There was also some sort of false outrage ending in some people brigading Rome 2's scores because someone lied about how you can recruit tonnes of female generals as Rome or something like that. Then it turns out they cheated it either with photoshop or mods and the only female generals you can hire are really low percentage or 50% as that one African weed nation or whatever.
Either way it's pretty dumb.
Post by: Teneb on September 26, 2018, 07:23:37 am
Edit: There was also some sort of false outrage ending in some people brigading Rome 2's scores because someone lied about how you can recruit tonnes of female generals as Rome or something like that. Then it turns out they cheated it either with photoshop or mods and the only female generals you can hire are really low percentage or 50% as that one African weed nation or whatever.Oh no, it's way dumber than that.
Either way it's pretty dumb.
Youtuber ArchWarhammer decided he wasn't making enough outrage and manipulated the game until he got 5 female generals, and then started claiming that the devs had issues a secret patch that caused all generals to become female and how this is an outrage, where is muh 'historical precision'. Then to make sure this was an actual shitstorm and not a mere shitbreeze, actual literal Nazi newspaper The Daily Stormer (that I am not going to link, and you probably shouldn't search for) issued a piece about how in Total War, white soldiers are being replaced by women and black people (though obviously they used a pejorative term).
Did people look at this and calmly check the information? Of course not, that would be sensible. Instead they started review-bombing the game about how Rome 2 has no historical precision (Gauls in Arabia? Just fine. Women in my game? OUTRAGE), how it is SJW, how it is dragging politics into their precious gaming (which is a laughable complaint, since culture and politics might as well be the same thing), and so on and so forth.
Things got even more inflamed when a CA community manager said that there were no changes, the game was working as intended on that aspect and no plans were being made to change anything, and that if they still didn't like that to mod it or stop playing. Obviously this led to more OUTRAEG and cries for the community manager to be fired.
In short, youtuber and literal nazis inciting outrage, plus a huge load of misoginy and racism because of course.
Post by: LordPorkins on September 26, 2018, 07:58:32 am
Post by: Teneb on September 26, 2018, 08:00:34 am
Hey, So, does anyone know if theres a mod to increase the amount of people you can have a campaign with in Total Warhammer? From what I've heard 2 can bring you up to 4, but I was wondering if you could get to like one player for every factionPretty sure that's impossible. Also would make it probably unplayable if it was.
Post by: MCreeper on September 26, 2018, 08:03:54 am
The IdiocyI really hate when devs put this (present :P) kind of TOLERANT stuff in games but... Oh God, The Idiocy!
Post by: Mech#4 on September 26, 2018, 10:11:18 am
Previously generals could have wives but they only gave a few stat changes (+ Authority - Zeal), now with all the other changes to agents to make them more useful you have a lot more options for wives and female family members to influence and manipulate the diplomatic and political systems (Spread rumours, hold parties, send diplomats and gifts, etc).
This also comes with some factions being able to have female generals if there was historical precedent (such as for Ptolemaic Egypt or the Kush) which might happen if, say, your leader passes away and you don't have a direct male heir or you have a daughter you want to steer towards command.
For factions where this doesn't really work historically (like Rome or Carthage), while you still have all of the agent options available for a wife to influence politics or diplomacy, they cannot be put into a military position.
Spoiler: Comment from Steam (click to show/hide)
Anyway:
A post has been made on the Total War forums (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/226194/a-fantastical-announcement-is-drawing-near/p1) about a coming "Fantastical Announcement" as well as a picture with the date 4th October 2018 and a black X. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/7x/rnn9ysk24fa2.png)
People are suggesting Dogs of War, Sartosa, Vampire Coast as the most likely. I don't really have any ideas as it's not much to go off of.
Also, another post was made about a version of Total War: Warhammer 1 called the "Dark Gods Edition" that is a limited physical run including Bretonnia, Norsca and Chaos Warriors along with some box art and a free e-book about Archaon the Everchosen. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/introducing-total-war-warhammer-dark-gods-edition)
Post by: Teneb on September 26, 2018, 10:17:48 am
It's probably a Southern Realms one, because they're making always 4 lords per new faction pack, and Vampire Coast doesn't provide that.
While I wanted Araby, Southern Realms is fine. I am just wondering how the lords will be handled for the Vortex map, since currently we just got Sartosa and the Colonies.
Post by: umiman on September 26, 2018, 12:55:41 pm
Post by: nenjin on September 26, 2018, 02:03:22 pm
Started a Skaven campaign with the Plaguedood. Take the first unoccupied city on the coast.
The AI for a rival skaven clan sails a boat down from further up the coast and keeps wanting to take the city. As soon as my move my one army near it, they turn tail and flee.
Meanwhile the Slaan push in ever closer from the west.
It's like, the AI in this game is all or nothing. Like Ork WAAAGGGGHHHs will travel halfway across the world, ignoring every other faction while they are in turn ignored, so they can plop down on your doorstep. It was even funnier when I was playing Beastmen and had WAAAAGGGGHHHs chasing me from the Dwarf Holds to fucking Altdorf and they still wouldn't fuck off, nor would they be contested by any other faction.
It's like....mathematically boring. The AI just numerically builds up a larger force than you, and attacks incessantly, or if they're weaker, they run incessantly. Factions diameterically opposed to each other will straight up ignore each other if the player is a more valid target, regardless of faction. It was ok with Beastmen because you don't have to hold cities. But when you've got territory to defend, the AI in this game sucks the fun right out of it.
Post by: Hanslanda on September 26, 2018, 02:06:46 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 26, 2018, 03:44:51 pm
It's like, the AI in this game is all or nothing. Like Ork WAAAGGGGHHHs will travel halfway across the world, ignoring every other faction while they are in turn ignored, so they can plop down on your doorstep. It was even funnier when I was playing Beastmen and had WAAAAGGGGHHHs chasing me from the Dwarf Holds to fucking Altdorf and they still wouldn't fuck off, nor would they be contested by any other faction.While this is hilariously in character for the greenskins, unfortunately it is just stupid AI coding. While doing a Beastman run in WH1 I was being chased all across the empire by:
1) Karl Franz
2) Some savage orc WAAAGH!
3) Skarsnik
4) Belegar
5) Helman Ghorst
6) Louen
Frankly, I am surprised there were no wood elves or norscans after me too (this was before the Bretonnia patch, for whatever it matters).
Post by: Tack on September 26, 2018, 04:52:05 pm
Post by: Teneb on September 26, 2018, 05:44:25 pm
Played a co-op Beastmen/Morathi game and had Karl Franz follow me all the way across the sea and get caught at Clar Karond. Ten turns later, the Empire had started conquering the dark elves.This action does have my consent!
(That's actually hilarious)
Post by: Mech#4 on September 26, 2018, 11:35:55 pm
Post by: umiman on September 26, 2018, 11:44:48 pm
Also the only time I ever played Beastmen was when I played Morghur and had a slow, methodical, destroy-the-entire-world campaign. Nobody chasing me anywhere in that one.
Post by: Grim Portent on September 27, 2018, 01:16:56 am
Post by: nenjin on September 27, 2018, 10:59:01 am
It's mostly a thing with Malagor in my experience. When I try him I'm consistently chased across the world by the Top Knots savage orcs faction.
Aye, it was during a Malagor playthrough for me too.
Post by: Teneb on September 27, 2018, 11:03:05 am
Post by: Mech#4 on September 27, 2018, 11:15:11 am
It's mostly a thing with Malagor in my experience. When I try him I'm consistently chased across the world by the Top Knots savage orcs faction.
Aye, it was during a Malagor playthrough for me too.
I think it was also for me. That's interesting, I wonder why that might be the case.
Edit: Though for me I think it would've been while playing as Morghur.
Post by: nenjin on September 27, 2018, 11:39:46 am
Post by: umiman on September 27, 2018, 12:26:51 pm
Post by: scriver on September 27, 2018, 01:39:59 pm
CA just announced a Yellow Turban DLC for 3K (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woEGXcvNe98)... and of course it is pre-order DLC. I thought they had learned after TWW, but I guess not. Sigh.
It doesn't even feature yellow turbans!
(also CoD: Yellow Turban Warfare)
Post by: Grim Portent on September 27, 2018, 07:02:34 pm
Sooner or later one of the realms you flee through declares war on you and you get pincered between a Top Knots army a thousand miles from home and a vampire or empire army that didn't like you leading a horde of orcs to their doorstep.
Malagor is also possibly the worst Beastman character to have against the AI in my opinion*, he can't fight very well and his magic is far from stellar, while Khazrak and Morghur can just smash the enemy general to death and help the army zerg to victory against their enemies. If you need magic you can just hire a shaman hero and get all the important bits of Malagor.
*Which is a shame because I much prefer him fluffwise to Khazrak, though Morghur I do rather like thematically. I'd love to see Slugtongue, Moonclaw and Ungrol get added to the game though.
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 27, 2018, 09:04:25 pm
I have seen AI bray-herds traveling with armies of vampires, tomb kings, and Empire state troops all jostling for second place behind them, so this particular issue doesn't seem to be just a 'dislike the player' sort of thing.
Post by: Teneb on September 28, 2018, 05:24:35 am
Regarding beastmen being chased to the end of the earth, there is (of course) a mod for that: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1389778682.It depends a lot on the difficulty for non-beastmen/chaos, from what I've seen. On Easy/Normal the AI just does its thing. On Very Hard and especially on Legendary, the AI has a hate-boner and will chase you to the ends of the map.
I have seen AI bray-herds traveling with armies of vampires, tomb kings, and Empire state troops all jostling for second place behind them, so this particular issue doesn't seem to be just a 'dislike the player' sort of thing.
Post by: nenjin on September 28, 2018, 10:12:38 am
And even without the Beastman variable, I still feel like the AI in TW is pretty shallow and it can make for an annoying game, esp. in the beginning when you don’t have many options.
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on September 30, 2018, 04:36:54 pm
In real life, and to a lesser extent some Paradox games there is a reason battles are taking place. Diplomacy is complex and everyone is fighting over finite resources and the strength of each nation is not inexhaustible. There is a certain sense of campaigning, in taking out targets and maneuvering armies to gain leverage over your enemies. In TW there's really nothing even close to approaching that. On one hand it's hard to complain about developing an AI that chooses to create as many battles as possible when the game's main emphasis is it's tactical combat. On the other hand... a lot of the enjoyment of fighting a battle is contextual, part of Hannibal's fame/infamy was because that MFer marched INTO Italy over what was the one of the most inhospitable mountain ranges in the world and fucking destroyed several (three?) legions IN the Roman Heartland.
It's so simplified much of the strategy is taken out of the equation. You're basically always going for the closest city with maybe a small consideration to whether or not it is defendable. And it's frustrating when armies just spawn out of nowhere because you performed too well. The list goes on and on. It feels more like wash, rinse, repeat than strategizing--the lines are already drawn for you--you just have go forth and do well in battle.
Battle AI is a different beast. Again, I think there's just not a lot of incentive to prioritize things like minimizing casualties or delaying enemy forces. The most onerous tidbit to me is both the player and AI's effective inability to conduct fighting retreats. IDK. I can't explain the AI's poor use of tactics away... it's almost always just frontal assault or no, I've decided to wait for you to come to me. Every once in a while you can get caught up in a race for occupying strategic locations.
Post by: LordPorkins on October 03, 2018, 08:12:51 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 03, 2018, 10:55:40 am
I wonder what's coming. It seems to be pretty solidly ocean themed, possibly involving the Vampire Coast. Siren of the Sea to me sounds like the name of a ship though, even though it would be nice, I wouldn't go so far as to say naval combat considering past comments by Creative Assembly. Though, things can change.
Post by: Teneb on October 03, 2018, 11:10:39 am
A post has been made on the official forums with the usual letter full of hints. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/226606/i-have-found-what-you-seek)I highly doubt it's the vampire coast unless they either make Luthor Harkon into a Boris Toddbringer/Red Duke or into an Arkhan. Because they need to do 4 Lords for the pack. It's likely Dogs of War with a big emphasis on Sartosa and the Colonies, since it needs to work for people with only TWW2.
I wonder what's coming. It seems to be pretty solidly ocean themed, possibly involving the Vampire Coast. Siren of the Sea to me sounds like the name of a ship though, even though it would be nice, I wouldn't go so far as to say naval combat considering past comments by Creative Assembly. Though, things can change.
Siren of the Storms seems to be a reference to the Pirate Queen of Sartosa, Aranesa Saltspite.
My guess is that the Vortex mechanics for the new Lords is going to be a huge treasure hunt, sort of like the TK's quest for Nagash's overdue books.
Rusting Harbor is in Sartosa, too.
Post by: Teneb on October 03, 2018, 03:08:25 pm
You all remember CA's justification for the Blood DLC being paid, right? Ratings? How it being free ups the ratings?
This fella on Reddit contacted both the ESRB and PEGI (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/9l2ubn/ratings_blood_dlc_you_part_deux/) and turns out that it's total bullshit. Blood as DLC only gets a higher rating on the DLC, which means it could very well be free. So we've been fed lies. People should be pissed at this and the Yellow Turban pre-order shit, not the female general shitstorm.
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 03, 2018, 05:09:58 pm
Double post, but this is important.Oh no, three dollars. Cheaper than a sandwich. How horrifying. I am so outraged by paying three dollars for two games of blood. Truly a great sin.
You all remember CA's justification for the Blood DLC being paid, right? Ratings? How it being free ups the ratings?
This fella on Reddit contacted both the ESRB and PEGI (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/9l2ubn/ratings_blood_dlc_you_part_deux/) and turns out that it's total bullshit. Blood as DLC only gets a higher rating on the DLC, which means it could very well be free. So we've been fed lies. People should be pissed at this and the Yellow Turban pre-order shit, not the female general shitstorm.
Post by: Teneb on October 03, 2018, 05:47:01 pm
Way to miss the point, friend. It could cost five cents. The point is that Sega/CA has been blatantly lying to it's consumers because hey, why make some money if you can make all of it?Double post, but this is important.Oh no, three dollars. Cheaper than a sandwich. How horrifying. I am so outraged by paying three dollars for two games of blood. Truly a great sin.
You all remember CA's justification for the Blood DLC being paid, right? Ratings? How it being free ups the ratings?
This fella on Reddit contacted both the ESRB and PEGI (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/9l2ubn/ratings_blood_dlc_you_part_deux/) and turns out that it's total bullshit. Blood as DLC only gets a higher rating on the DLC, which means it could very well be free. So we've been fed lies. People should be pissed at this and the Yellow Turban pre-order shit, not the female general shitstorm.
Also that's a crazy expensive sandwich you have there. I can have a good lunch with that cash.
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 03, 2018, 07:04:16 pm
The point is that Sega/CA has been blatantly lying to it's consumers because hey, why make some money if you can make all of it?From your link's opening post:
Quote
I've been unable to locate any response from a CA employee or affiliate saying something to the effect of "Free DLC can't be free because it will alter the base game's rating", so as much as I find CA's business model and practices to be consumer-unfriendly, I don't believe they ever offered up any kind of excuse correlating the price (or lack thereof) of DLC to the base game ratings.
We've all seen people make those claims, and I suspect those claims were just something that somebody made up one day and it took root in this community and got repeated time and time again.
Post by: Tack on October 03, 2018, 07:33:09 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2018, 08:59:17 am
EDIT: Steam page (https://store.steampowered.com/app/835670/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Curse_of_the_Vampire_Coast/)
Post by: Mech#4 on October 04, 2018, 09:22:42 am
Apparently the hint was about the Vampire Coast with four legendary lords, including Luthor Harkon, and a new army list as well as new mechanics.
Link to a blog post with more details. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-curse-of-the-vampire-coast-faq)
Spoiler: Key features of the DLC (click to show/hide)
Important to note though, as they mention in the F.A.Q, Creative Assembly are not implementing naval battles with the DLC. There will be, however, be battles you can fight instead of auto-resolve. One is the battle takes place on a nearby island (As they mention, very similar to a mod that was recently released) and the second will be battles against Black Arks will take place on a map specific for them (A nice addition).
One of the new mechanics caught my eye. The hidden pirate cove/enclave sounds like it would work well for Skaven establishing underempire outposts in enemy cities.
The unit list seems very interesting, with huge crabs, giant crabs, that horrible mouthy ghoul thing, multi-cannon wielding ship constructs and pirate zombies. There's also a new lore of magic, lore of the deep, hunting for treasure using maps, gaining infamy for your lords and upgradable main ships the lords have as well (I assume kind of like the Black Arks).
Along with the DLC will come some other updates as well. The Vampire Counts will apparently get a reworking of their mechanics and abilities. There is also a FLC lord coming for the Mortal Empire and Vortex campaign.
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2018, 09:51:59 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 04, 2018, 10:22:55 am
I wanted da-vinci gunners but I guess that’s okay too.
I also hope that Araby can be added at some point. Seeing the monsters and how they've added new units again makes me intrigued to see what they could come up with for other new factions.
Post by: Sindain on October 04, 2018, 10:58:16 am
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2018, 11:00:44 am
Hell, Araby had a full roster for one of the spin-off tabletop games (warmaster, I think), so it's not like it would be too much work. Araby is also humans, so there's far less need for new animations.I wanted da-vinci gunners but I guess that’s okay too.
I also hope that Araby can be added at some point. Seeing the monsters and how they've added new units again makes me intrigued to see what they could come up with for other new factions.
I can see it as perhaps as the pre-order deal for WH3 like Norsca was for 2 (though hopefuly it won't end up being the utter mess that resulted in the Norsca port to Mortal Empires).
Post by: LordPorkins on October 04, 2018, 11:55:36 am
Who is your favorite Legendary Lord/Hero?
Mines probably Grombrindal. His living ancestor trait is fracking amazing in campaign, and he's capable of wrecking the face of most other LLs
Favorite Hero is probably the Dwarven Engineer. I love Dwarves, especially with all there guns and artillery. A Dwarf Engineer, Grudge Thrower, Trollhunter squad and a squad of Irondrakes will wreck almost anything thrown at them. Throw in some Ironbreakers and nothing is getting to charge you without losing at least 1/3 of there health
Post by: ArchAIngel on October 04, 2018, 12:08:49 pm
Hey guys! Question time!For gameplay? Archaon, I love me my heavy infantry marches, or Kholek if you can get lucky enough to get the bugger the Sword of Khaine.
Who is your favorite Legendary Lord/Hero?
Mines probably Grombrindal. His living ancestor trait is fracking amazing in campaign, and he's capable of wrecking the face of most other LLs
Favorite Hero is probably the Dwarven Engineer. I love Dwarves, especially with all there guns and artillery. A Dwarf Engineer, Grudge Thrower, Trollhunter squad and a squad of Irondrakes will wreck almost anything thrown at them. Throw in some Ironbreakers and nothing is getting to charge you without losing at least 1/3 of there health
For fluff? Sigvald, solely because of his quest battle speech done entirely in alliteration.
Post by: umiman on October 04, 2018, 12:14:01 pm
Someone on Reddit mentioned there's a vampire counts rework coming as well? Why do they even need a rework? They're so fleshed out (lol).
LordPorkins: Sigvald is the best.
But combatwise, I think Leonceur at max level with all his stuff is invincible and also flies. The guy gets regeneration, massive size, flies, ultra tanky, huge AOE attacks, etc. He gets all these by default, no need to farm for items. I'm saying this as someone who doesn't like Bretonnia.
In a skirmish I think the best is probably the Red Duke or Manfred.
Post by: Grim Portent on October 04, 2018, 12:27:05 pm
Morghur I'm on the fence about mechcanically, he's pretty beefy but his spawn spawning powers fail to impress me. Shame since his fluff's really cool and definitely in my top 5.
Post by: Tack on October 04, 2018, 12:31:09 pm
Fun: Teclis. One hundred passives per spell.
Crunch: So far Grimgor Ironhide. Gets very, very close to 1k dmg per hit, pop waagh for best results, add a RR black ork banner squad for best bodyguard shenanigans (faction is otherwise lacklustre)
Looks cool. I'm a bit disappointed by how it looks like it will be another quest based won condition though. I don't mind CA exploring win cons other than conquer everything but I feel that most of the quest win cons have been kinda lackluster. Bretonnia has probably been the only one I've been happy with.
Quest based win con is I think a “vortexy thing” win con.
Post by: Teneb on October 04, 2018, 01:54:41 pm
Crunch: Malekith. He's unstoppable once you skill him up. Literally unstoppable if you can grab the Sword of Khaine. Dark Magic is just too strong, and he's a great duelist character too.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on October 04, 2018, 06:19:01 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 04, 2018, 10:43:57 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on October 05, 2018, 08:44:46 am
It seems a shame to keep a Mournghul to the Pirates alone, since it doesn't really make much sense. I mean, It's a pretty Vampire Counts-ish unit.
Post by: Thexor on October 05, 2018, 01:03:50 pm
However, updates to the VC have been confirmed. They're getting a skill and ability overhaul as part of the free update with the Vampirates (which, really, we need to come up with a name for these guys that doesn't have the acronym "VC", it's confusing enough already!), which is pretty cool. I'll be very happy if they keep a trend of one Old World faction update alongside each DLC release!
Post by: scriver on October 05, 2018, 02:09:10 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 05, 2018, 02:10:52 pm
New units? Unlikely. The base VC roster is pretty solid already. Maybe a bit of crossover?You already came up with a name: Vampirates.
However, updates to the VC have been confirmed. They're getting a skill and ability overhaul as part of the free update with the Vampirates (which, really, we need to come up with a name for these guys that doesn't have the acronym "VC", it's confusing enough already!), which is pretty cool. I'll be very happy if they keep a trend of one Old World faction update alongside each DLC release!
What I really want is a standalone version of the trailer's shanty.
Post by: umiman on October 05, 2018, 03:02:58 pm
Me too.New units? Unlikely. The base VC roster is pretty solid already. Maybe a bit of crossover?You already came up with a name: Vampirates.
However, updates to the VC have been confirmed. They're getting a skill and ability overhaul as part of the free update with the Vampirates (which, really, we need to come up with a name for these guys that doesn't have the acronym "VC", it's confusing enough already!), which is pretty cool. I'll be very happy if they keep a trend of one Old World faction update alongside each DLC release!
What I really want is a standalone version of the trailer's shanty.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 05, 2018, 10:49:23 pm
Post by: Nelia Hawk on October 06, 2018, 01:56:47 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 06, 2018, 04:08:41 am
There have been some units Creative Assembly have shown or had in the game that changed their appearance later on. Early screenshots of Warhammer 1 and the Empire state troops. (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/364360/ss_4959f7022568001799bd3fb081a2429c364af83c.jpg?t=1537452638) Beastmen also got more feral looking chaos warhounds and chaos spawn.
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2018, 09:05:54 am
Not the unit themselves, that's fine. I mean the visual appearance of the units. The dire wolves are, from what I can see, exactly the same as the Vampire Counts ones. (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/835670/ss_957426671b2b6b3c9776a860e936e83458aa9464.1920x1080.jpg?t=1538688022) The ghost unit also seems to be made up of banshees. I'd except the Dire Wolves to maybe have some seaweed or barnacles on them, like the pirate zombies, to tie them into the overall theme more.The Vampire Coast tabletop army list had Scurvy Dogs which were just dire wolves by another name, really.
There have been some units Creative Assembly have shown or had in the game that changed their appearance later on. Early screenshots of Warhammer 1 and the Empire state troops. (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/364360/ss_4959f7022568001799bd3fb081a2429c364af83c.jpg?t=1537452638) Beastmen also got more feral looking chaos warhounds and chaos spawn.
Post by: scriver on October 06, 2018, 10:21:48 am
One of the screenshots does have what kind of looks like a unit of Spirit Hosts, syreen in the Vampire Coast army list I think. Though that, along with the dire wolves and mortars here makes me think there might be some placeholder models. (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/835670/ss_055d529077304e43ed7b5ff0f704e41d1460d815.1920x1080.jpg?t=1538688022)
Are those paratroopers?
Post by: Teneb on October 06, 2018, 10:26:38 am
Deck droppers, literally fell bats carrying zombie riflemen.One of the screenshots does have what kind of looks like a unit of Spirit Hosts, syreen in the Vampire Coast army list I think. Though that, along with the dire wolves and mortars here makes me think there might be some placeholder models. (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/835670/ss_055d529077304e43ed7b5ff0f704e41d1460d815.1920x1080.jpg?t=1538688022)
Are those paratroopers?
Post by: scriver on October 06, 2018, 10:47:25 am
Post by: Persus13 on October 08, 2018, 11:40:08 am
What I really want is a standalone version of the trailer's shanty.Me too.
And CA just released one. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7tJELpDfKU)
Post by: Mech#4 on October 09, 2018, 11:01:18 am
Spoiler: Key Details (click to show/hide)
Some other interesting details is the addition of "The Galleon Graveyard" in the middle of the Great Ocean (visible on the map in the above blog). The blog also gives silhouettes of the other three lords coming.
From them it can be pretty strongly be guessed that two of them are Noctilus (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Noctilus) and Aranessa Saltspite (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Aranessa_Saltspite). I do not know who the third person is, the sihouette looks kind of like a banshee with no legs and wavy hair (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.academy.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09090330/lord4-933x1024.png). I don't really know that much about the Vampire Coast or Dreadfleet so someone more knowledgable will have to take a guess.
Post by: Teneb on October 09, 2018, 11:27:02 am
A right up about Luthor Harkon has been posted on the Creative Assembly website. (https://academy.totalwar.com/vampire-coast/)Aranessa is a really odd pick because she's alive, and a Chaos mutant to boot. Making her into a vampire is kind of forced, but whatever. The Banshee is probably a lord made-up for the dlc. Though I was wishing for Vangheist, a character from Dreadfleet who was a ghost pirate (and had his own ship model, which is kind of a big deal considering one of the main features of the DLC). Noctilus might as well be guaranteed, really.Spoiler: Key Details (click to show/hide)
Some other interesting details is the addition of "The Galleon Graveyard" in the middle of the Great Ocean (visible on the map in the above blog). The blog also gives silhouettes of the other three lords coming.
From them it can be pretty strongly be guessed that two of them are Noctilus (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Noctilus) and Aranessa Saltspite (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Aranessa_Saltspite). I do not know who the third person is, the sihouette looks kind of like a banshee with no legs and wavy hair (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.academy.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09090330/lord4-933x1024.png). I don't really know that much about the Vampire Coast or Dreadfleet so someone more knowledgable will have to take a guess.
EDIT: folks on the internet might've pinned down the fourth LL as Comtesse Charlotta Jacoba (http://i.imgur.com/5bSwdzZ.png), in the right of the picture.
Post by: LordPorkins on October 09, 2018, 11:40:55 am
Depth GuardGODDAMMIT CA
YOU HAD TO DO IT
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 09, 2018, 03:12:15 pm
Post by: Teneb on October 09, 2018, 03:47:22 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on October 09, 2018, 05:02:29 pm
I never knew I had such a big place in my heart for vampirates. I'm loving this faction so far. It's a pity they're not working in naval battles with this, but I get it - a whole lot of work and most people don't really enjoy them all that much. Shogun 2's naval battles - both in vanilla and Fall of the Samurai - are really the only TWs where I've actually liked playing them, but if they could manage something like that again I'd be all over it.
The ship battles in Rome 2 are bullshit.
Post by: umiman on October 09, 2018, 05:47:27 pm
I think the fundamental problem with ship battles in the games is the engine limitations. The ships are too small. The battles have no maneuverability whatsoever. There's way way way too few units. Etc. etc.
Post by: Tack on October 09, 2018, 08:48:24 pm
Especially as transports started off being very OP
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 10, 2018, 03:03:44 am
I never knew I had such a big place in my heart for vampirates. I'm loving this faction so far. It's a pity they're not working in naval battles with this, but I get it - a whole lot of work and most people don't really enjoy them all that much. Shogun 2's naval battles - both in vanilla and Fall of the Samurai - are really the only TWs where I've actually liked playing them, but if they could manage something like that again I'd be all over it.
The ship battles in Rome 2 are bullshit.
Indeed they are! That’s why I didn’t mention them at all. I don’t know how they went so wrong there.
In TW you’d get to have a nifty mix of cannons, magic, flying units, fantastical ship types and sea monsters and all. It could be great if they figured out how to make it all work.
Post by: Hanslanda on October 10, 2018, 05:06:20 am
I didn’t mind sea invasions in Rome 2 but ship-on-ship battles yeah were very flawed.
Especially as transports started off being very OP
Yeah even after they fixed em I still just autoresolve.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 10, 2018, 05:32:51 am
A right up about Luthor Harkon has been posted on the Creative Assembly website. (https://academy.totalwar.com/vampire-coast/)Aranessa is a really odd pick because she's alive, and a Chaos mutant to boot. Making her into a vampire is kind of forced, but whatever.Spoiler: Key Details (click to show/hide)
Some other interesting details is the addition of "The Galleon Graveyard" in the middle of the Great Ocean (visible on the map in the above blog). The blog also gives silhouettes of the other three lords coming.
From them it can be pretty strongly be guessed that two of them are Noctilus (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Noctilus) and Aranessa Saltspite (http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Aranessa_Saltspite). I do not know who the third person is, the sihouette looks kind of like a banshee with no legs and wavy hair (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.academy.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/09090330/lord4-933x1024.png). I don't really know that much about the Vampire Coast or Dreadfleet so someone more knowledgable will have to take a guess.
While I have no problem with such a change, does she necessarily have to be a vampire now? She could be a necromancer, or infused with enough of the energy from the Galleon Graveyard (a place that, from my understanding, collects all of the oceans dead) that she now has the power to command undead troops while still being living, or maybe empowered enough by necromatic magic she counts as undead (such as Ghouls, Necromancers, Dire Wolves and Fell Bats).
Edit:
On Rome 2's naval battles, I never really had a problem with them. Though they were difficult to control what with all the remembering which way the winds blowing, planning ship movements in advance, where your other ships are and are going to be and so on. It became a mess but I felt that was more through my own actions.
It's like a whole new set of tactics and maneuvers to understand.
Post by: Persus13 on October 10, 2018, 10:18:37 am
A writeup about Luthor Harkon has been posted on the Creative Assembly website. (https://academy.totalwar.com/vampire-coast/)This link now includes a write up on Noctilis. His starting location is in the new Galleon's Graveyard at the center of the map. It also looks like each Vampirate gets a different cool-looking flagship model.
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
I'm going to hazard a guess that the other two LL will get revealed in the next two days.
Post by: Teneb on October 10, 2018, 10:31:26 am
Post by: Majestic7 on October 10, 2018, 10:32:48 am
It is basically a pirate sailing simulator in the Warhammer world. You get to play Chaos too, if you like. The game is quite ugly but very fun.
You are playing either a human freelance captain or a Khorne/Nurgle champion. Allies and enemies include various human factions, high elves, dark elves, dwarves (!), orks, skaven, four Chaos factions, sea monsters, undead and pirates.
Post by: umiman on October 10, 2018, 12:56:05 pm
Quote
MOUNT: NECROFEX COLOSSUS
Count Noctilus is often seen riding into battle atop the grotesque, rotting bulk of a Necrofex Colossus.
:D
Post by: Mech#4 on October 10, 2018, 09:55:27 pm
It also seems like the Vampire Coast will have Terrorgeists in their army list, aside from the Death Skriek one Luthor Harkon gets as a mount.
Also, I'm going to have terrible trouble trying to resist hiring a lord and renaming them LeChuck.
Post by: sambojin on October 11, 2018, 07:35:57 am
Because otherwise there's going to be some LotR stuff going down, but in the middle of the ocean.
(PS. I'm going to have to check out man'o'war. I always loved the look of the TT game as a kid in white dwarf magazine, but never got to play it. But as both a Pirates! and Warhammer fan, this might be my jam.)
Post by: Teneb on October 11, 2018, 07:45:27 am
Geez I hope they don't do the "wraiths can move anywhere" thing. It might be one of the few times where undead's aversion to moving water makes sense from a gameplay and not a story narrative thing.Pretty sure that's not a thing in Warhammer. Especially given that Vampires are totally fine with daylight.
Because otherwise there's going to be some LotR stuff going down, but in the middle of the ocean.
(PS. I'm going to have to check out man'o'war. I always loved the look of the TT game as a kid in white dwarf magazine, but never got to play it. But as both a Pirates! and Warhammer fan, this might be my jam.)
Post by: sambojin on October 11, 2018, 09:02:51 am
Post by: Tack on October 11, 2018, 09:19:50 am
Post by: sambojin on October 11, 2018, 09:22:03 am
It really doesn't bother them. Parasol bats are why people vacation there anyway. So, more fresh, rather untanned meat. So convenient.....
Post by: Persus13 on October 11, 2018, 10:17:55 am
Anessa Saltspike's profile is now up. They kept to the lore of her being a living mutant, not an undead vampire, and she buffs her living crew of Sartosa Free Company Units. She also rides an undead crab or something like that and she starts off the coast of Tilea in Mortal Empires.A writeup about Luthor Harkon has been posted on the Creative Assembly website. (https://academy.totalwar.com/vampire-coast/)I'm going to hazard a guess that the other two LL will get revealed in the next two days.
Spoiler: Details (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on October 11, 2018, 10:52:55 am
There's also some other interesting details people have noticed. Apparently the Mortal Empire map is being changed a bit with the addition of the "Heart of the Forest" province to the west of Karak Zorn as well as one, maybe two, province around the water south of the Black Tower of Arkhan. Assumidly it'll be Sudenburg. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/bl/g98t2kb5bsua.jpg)
Post by: Teneb on October 11, 2018, 11:19:53 am
I like the look of her model. The scaly arms are neat what with the spikes and sawfish peglegs. (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.academy.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/11143639/aranessa_saltspirev2-850x1024.png)Yeah, looks like the Oreo Elves and Sundenburg are both back, together with the addition of the Land of Dervishes province which seems to point to the fourth LL being the Alberic-tastic Silver Princess (an Arabyan vampire lady)
There's also some other interesting details people have noticed. Apparently the Mortal Empire map is being changed a bit with the addition of the "Heart of the Forest" province to the west of Karak Zorn as well as one, maybe two, province around the water south of the Black Tower of Arkhan. Assumidly it'll be Sudenburg. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/bl/g98t2kb5bsua.jpg)
EDIT: Silver Princess is outright confirmed due to the name of this faction crest (https://totalwarwarhammer.gamepedia.com/File:Layla_FactionSymbol.png).
Post by: Teneb on October 12, 2018, 09:24:27 am
Spoiler: Her Info (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Since the Silver Princess does have a faction crest, I guess she'll just be a generic lord in a minor VP faction.
EDIT: CA confirmed that she's a completely original character (do not steal), so there's that.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 12, 2018, 09:37:37 am
It also mentions Mourngul Haunters as a hero. I wonder what the spells of the Lore of the Deep will be like?
I think there's still a free legendary lord coming, so the Silver Princess might be that. Or it could be a completely different faction character.
Post by: Teneb on October 12, 2018, 09:43:28 am
Interesting. It's really not what people were expecting and I kind of like it for that. I can understand if people wanted one of the existing characters instead but I like the design of her and her ability to summon units of spectral bretonnian knights (and upgrade them as well) sounds neat.The free LL is for sure going to be for one of the original factions (of WH2). The DLC factions (and now HE) have 4 LLs. Skaven has 3 LLs, but still haven't received their lord pack, so they are out. So it's either a Lizardmen or Dark Elf LL. Hoping for Lokhir Fellheart (Dark Elf Corsair) myself.
It also mentions Mourngul Haunters as a hero. I wonder what the spells of the Lore of the Deep will be like?
I think there's still a free legendary lord coming, so the Silver Princess might be that. Or it could be a completely different faction character.
Post by: Mech#4 on October 14, 2018, 02:11:42 am
Interesting. It's really not what people were expecting and I kind of like it for that. I can understand if people wanted one of the existing characters instead but I like the design of her and her ability to summon units of spectral bretonnian knights (and upgrade them as well) sounds neat.The free LL is for sure going to be for one of the original factions (of WH2). The DLC factions (and now HE) have 4 LLs. Skaven has 3 LLs, but still haven't received their lord pack, so they are out. So it's either a Lizardmen or Dark Elf LL. Hoping for Lokhir Fellheart (Dark Elf Corsair) myself.
It also mentions Mourngul Haunters as a hero. I wonder what the spells of the Lore of the Deep will be like?
I think there's still a free legendary lord coming, so the Silver Princess might be that. Or it could be a completely different faction character.
Ah, yes. Of course. They wouldn't have a free lord for a bought faction.
The added areas around Sudenberg are quite interesting now that the 4th lord has been shown not to start there. It could just be to add some density as the desert area does have a lot of open space (kind of appropriate but...) (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.academy.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/12125043/map4EV.jpg)
Post by: Digital Hellhound on October 14, 2018, 03:45:06 am
Post by: Mech#4 on October 14, 2018, 04:14:50 am
I kinda wish there was a middle ground between the Vortex and ME maps, or a way to choose which areas of the map you get. For Vampirates especially I’d love the chance to have Bretonnia and the Southern Realms in to raid without the hassle of having the rest of the Old World as well. I suppose I’ll have to try Vortex Vampirates first, haven’t played a non-ME campaign in ages.
There is a mod that randomizes all of the factions starting locations, though I haven't used it myself.
I would like if the Mortal Empires map got expanded to include all for the game 3 version. Even though it would run slower it would be like a last all out before the series finished.
The last vortex campaign I played was as Arkhan the Black. That was fun and the closer focus of the vortex map does make for some more interesting campaign strategy but the Mortal Empire map is so enticing with it's scale, even though I don't tend to see half of it in 200 turns, beyond hero scouting that is.
Perhaps with the Vampire Coast DLC it'll change, since having more control over naval battles will make exploring the sea feel safer and less "lose your army to an enemy who's currently docked or out of sight".
Post by: Mech#4 on October 16, 2018, 06:53:28 am
The full army list is also up for viewing. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/curse-of-the-vampire-coast-roster-reveal)
Spoiler: Army List (click to show/hide)
There's also a video up introducing the new character by Creative Assembly, Cylostra Direfin. It also has a bit of, what I assume is, one of the spells from the Lore of the Deep. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGpvRUuK5s)
Some things of note from the above; The Vampire Coast will be getting some varient shots for their cannons and artillery with grapeshot and quicklime to choose from. At least... I think that'll be an option, it was on the list when it was put up but seems to be missing now.
There's also a unit of zombies with bombs that I assume will be similar to miners with blasting packs or Deathglobe Bombadiers. The Deck Droppers can also come with either rifle armed zombies or bombs while the Bloated Corpse does function as an exploding suicide unit. It can also explode if it gets damaged enough.
Some things on the list and in the stream are a bit confusing. The Depth Guard were, in one of the screenshots, shown to be a unit of 26 models but in the stream it looked more like a unit of 64. There's also the unit of Sartosian pirates for Aranessa Saltspite that people are finding a little lackluster, though it was mentioned that they're still working on details so they might be changed between now and the release date.
Post by: Persus13 on October 17, 2018, 09:58:17 am
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-aye-aye-patch
(https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-aye-aye-patch)https://store.steampowered.com/app/835671/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Lokhir_Fellheart/ (https://store.steampowered.com/app/835671/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Lokhir_Fellheart/)
Post by: Mech#4 on October 17, 2018, 11:00:24 am
Picture of the Vampire Bloodlines window in game. (https://i.imgur.com/pqrjCMx.png) Apparently there's a stream going on at the moment covering more details.
Post by: Teneb on October 29, 2018, 10:52:44 am
Spoiler: Here is a silly thing (click to show/hide)
This post was brought to you by the dread pirate Cocklyn Kelp Claw
Post by: TD1 on October 29, 2018, 04:49:57 pm
Post by: umiman on October 29, 2018, 05:28:28 pm
Post by: A Thing on October 29, 2018, 05:34:16 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on October 29, 2018, 06:19:41 pm
Post by: scriver on October 29, 2018, 06:31:12 pm
'Arry the Creeper is annoyed that it doesn't say which letter of my last name
Post by: Culise on October 29, 2018, 06:44:37 pm
Ah, but anyways, I've been kinda looking at this game for a little while ever since I played the Warhammer mod for CK2, and I'm a little curious. Based on my understanding, the first game is the Old World and the second game is the New World, with the two combining into a mega-map if owned. Has their patch policy been to update both versions of the game or only the more recent release? That is, if I want a fully updated experience, do I need to buy both games if I want to, say, carve out an upstart
Post by: Teneb on October 29, 2018, 07:18:27 pm
Peggy Hodgson. I do like how in a band of scurvy pirates, I have the name that could belong to the granny down the street. Don't underestimate grannies.There have been no more updates to the first game after the release of the second.
Ah, but anyways, I've been kinda looking at this game for a little while ever since I played the Warhammer mod for CK2, and I'm a little curious. Based on my understanding, the first game is the Old World and the second game is the New World, with the two combining into a mega-map if owned. Has their patch policy been to update both versions of the game or only the more recent release? That is, if I want a fully updated experience, do I need to buy both games if I want to, say, carve out an upstartRomanReman empire from Tilea?
Post by: nenjin on October 29, 2018, 07:32:00 pm
Post by: Culise on October 29, 2018, 07:32:59 pm
Thank you. I'll have to keep that in mind next time there's a big sale.Peggy Hodgson. I do like how in a band of scurvy pirates, I have the name that could belong to the granny down the street. Don't underestimate grannies.There have been no more updates to the first game after the release of the second.
Ah, but anyways, I've been kinda looking at this game for a little while ever since I played the Warhammer mod for CK2, and I'm a little curious. Based on my understanding, the first game is the Old World and the second game is the New World, with the two combining into a mega-map if owned. Has their patch policy been to update both versions of the game or only the more recent release? That is, if I want a fully updated experience, do I need to buy both games if I want to, say, carve out an upstartRomanReman empire from Tilea?
Post by: Puzzlemaker on October 29, 2018, 08:11:26 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on October 29, 2018, 09:18:35 pm
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2018, 01:22:54 am
Post by: dennislp3 on October 30, 2018, 02:06:33 am
No, it's from being unable to use your hands to paddle afloat in the water
Oh...so its less a pirate name...and more like what they put on my headstone
"Aye this poor soul had him some short hands! When the waves blew him overboard he couldn't stay afloat on account of his tiny hands...damn shame...he drowned."
Post by: GiglameshDespair on October 30, 2018, 07:56:34 am
Post by: Il Palazzo on October 30, 2018, 08:00:01 am
No, it's from being unable to use your hands to paddle afloat in the waterWouldn't that be Short Hands the Drownee?
Post by: Tack on October 30, 2018, 09:00:40 am
Also, “Tiny Tim Saltspray” is a cool name and i’m glad to have it.
Post by: scriver on October 30, 2018, 11:04:25 am
Post by: Persus13 on November 01, 2018, 11:31:56 am
Also this video continues the tradition of killing High Elves to demonstrate the new faction stuff.
Post by: Empty on November 02, 2018, 07:19:48 pm
Has that been changed yet?
Post by: BurnedToast on November 02, 2018, 08:25:09 pm
I stopped playing due to the blatent cheating of the AI.
Has that been changed yet?
Depends on what you mean by blatant cheating. The AI is still going to cheat, because any strategy game's AI needs to cheat to present any sort of challenge. So the question is what cheats specifically annoyed you?
IMO the cheating in TW:WH 1 is actually not too bad, at least on normal or hard.
Post by: Wiles on November 02, 2018, 09:21:07 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on November 03, 2018, 12:50:58 am
If you're a fan of strategy games and have an issue with cheating AI you're going to be missing out on most of the good titles. The technology just isn't there yet to make good AI for complex games.
I would go as far as saying "you will miss out on most any game"
Developing AI is difficult, takes a lot of time, and takes a lot of specialized experience and knowledge. Almost all games deal with game difficulty through bonuses and penalties instead of taking the time to develop a whole new branch of AI just for a difficulty level.
Post by: umiman on November 03, 2018, 12:53:22 am
Post by: Hanslanda on November 03, 2018, 10:36:23 am
At least this one doesn't do the Shogun 2 thing where if you don't have vision over the enemy, they will cheatspawn fullstack armies instantly for free. I remember the only way to defeat the AI on legendary in Shogun 2 was to have agents over their settlements at all times for vision. If not the fullstacks never ended.
Or you could collect their skulls for the Skull Throne. Eternally.
Post by: Teneb on November 03, 2018, 10:53:37 am
Which is hy I mod that out.
Post by: umiman on November 03, 2018, 12:01:21 pm
The only thing I consider true, annoying AI bullshit in TWW (both 1 and 2) is that they get public order bonuses on anything above medium. Which, of course, means corruption is just fancy attrition to them and they get no rebels.Yeah, I also mod out the Great Power diplomacy malus.
Which is hy I mod that out.
Nice thing about this series is you can just mod out whatever you don't like. Or make it as hard as you want.
Post by: Retropunch on November 03, 2018, 01:00:02 pm
The only thing I consider true, annoying AI bullshit in TWW (both 1 and 2) is that they get public order bonuses on anything above medium. Which, of course, means corruption is just fancy attrition to them and they get no rebels.Yeah, I also mod out the Great Power diplomacy malus.
Which is hy I mod that out.
Nice thing about this series is you can just mod out whatever you don't like. Or make it as hard as you want.
Urgh the Great Power diplomacy malus in all TW/Paradox games really pisses me off - it's basically just a flat 'you're doing well' penalty which makes no logical sense. Always modded out instantly.
Post by: BurnedToast on November 03, 2018, 10:54:19 pm
Urgh the Great Power diplomacy malus in all TW/Paradox games really pisses me off - it's basically just a flat 'you're doing well' penalty which makes no logical sense. Always modded out instantly.
It makes perfect sense. The worst part of any 4x style game is the last say... 25% - 33% or so where it's just a foregone conclusion and you're mindlessly mopping up the enemy.
Great power malus is basically just a soft version of the realm divide from S2 - It's not punishing you for doing well, it's rewarding you by keeping the game interesting. If nobody likes you, it means you have to attack (or at least defend) multiple fronts instead of just building 10 doomstacks, clumping them up, and rolling over the AIs one at a time.
Maybe it's not handled perfectly (I'm actually not sure how it works) but the idea behind it at least is good.
Post by: Shooer on November 03, 2018, 11:29:24 pm
Post by: umiman on November 04, 2018, 01:11:07 am
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 04, 2018, 05:27:33 am
Post by: Mech#4 on November 04, 2018, 06:32:30 am
Though I do understand. Diplomacy is difficult, especially for some factions. In particular, everyone has an aversion to Skaven, which makes sense of course, but it's difficult to feel the Skavens habit of manipulation. Greasing factions relations with gold helps some what, I've done that when playing as Von Carsteins to get Vampire Counts to ally with me so I can confederate later on, but it tends to require repeated gifts over quite a few turns. Though that comes in with another issue; why give gold, unless you want all the Legendary Lords together, if you can just take what you want via force.
Related to the Skaven aversion, it sometimes feels like destruction factions (Greenskins in particular), because no one really likes them, they get dogpiled by other order factions like Dwarfs and Border Princes early on meaning they don't survive often beyond 100 turns.
Post by: Teneb on November 05, 2018, 07:02:59 am
Spoiler: High Elves (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dark Elves (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Skaven (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Empire (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Dwarfs (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Greenskins (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Vampire Counts (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Norsca (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bretonnia (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Wood Elves (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Beastmen (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Warriors of Chaos (click to show/hide)
Quote from: Helman Ghorst
+12 charge bonus for Corpse Carts(https://imgur.com/azaC5Lf.png)
EDIT: I swear, lists are finnicky in this forum
Post by: Mech#4 on November 05, 2018, 07:52:39 am
The -1 turn recruitment time for Bestigors with Khazrak is nice. I understand that they're a bit of an oddity in the Beastmen army (heavily armoued troops) but 3 turns often means you're taking 3 turns of currency drain, something you can't really afford until later on.
Oh boy, +5% Ward save on all units in Archaons army.
The leadership buff Karl Franz gets should be useful and the increased reinforcement range for Grombrindal to 50% will surely be most annoying.
Heinrich Kemmlar's increase to diplomacy with worshippers of Chaos is interesting. I don't know if he had any real ties to Chaos outside of Krell, maybe it's to do with him being in Drachenfels (Blackstone Pass)?
Is Azhag supposed to have -25% Construction Cost for Settlement Cain Buildings? -25 Construction time would be interesting with buildings being built several turns before you can get them.
Post by: Teneb on November 05, 2018, 08:19:34 am
Heinrich Kemmlar's increase to diplomacy with worshippers of Chaos is interesting. I don't know if he had any real ties to Chaos outside of Krell, maybe it's to do with him being in Drachenfels (Blackstone Pass)?Kemmler, in addition to being the OC (do not steal) of Warhammer, is pretty much a Chaos necromancer.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 05, 2018, 09:10:54 am
Heinrich Kemmlar's increase to diplomacy with worshippers of Chaos is interesting. I don't know if he had any real ties to Chaos outside of Krell, maybe it's to do with him being in Drachenfels (Blackstone Pass)?Kemmler, in addition to being the OC (do not steal) of Warhammer, is pretty much a Chaos necromancer.
Hm, knew he was pretty much the first character but I only really know him as the Wanderer. I didn't know that he had more ties to chaos then Krell.
::Reads:: Ah I see. He made a deal with the chaos gods to restore his mind and powers.
Post by: Tack on November 05, 2018, 03:49:36 pm
Post by: umiman on November 05, 2018, 04:18:55 pm
I feel like giving more melee defense and physical resistance to flagellants was... uncalled for.Only for Volkmar's army though. And Volkmar isn't exactly a great lord to use in combat.
Post by: Teneb on November 05, 2018, 04:56:58 pm
It probably gives his army one of the best tarpits for Empire though.I feel like giving more melee defense and physical resistance to flagellants was... uncalled for.Only for Volkmar's army though. And Volkmar isn't exactly a great lord to use in combat.
EDIT: Too bad it's just his army and so to have that you need to sacrifice the great effects granted by Karl and Gelt.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on November 05, 2018, 06:54:11 pm
I am now very tired of trash-main armies. What would be the most different gameplay faction?
I already tried the dwarves, but they seemed so impossibly slow to do anything.
Post by: umiman on November 05, 2018, 07:29:35 pm
Well, I completed my tomb Kings campaign. From horrible grind of endless skeleton trash hordes against the lizardmen, to the grind of endless elite skeleton trash hordes with big stompy constructs against elite hoerth sword master elven hordes.Lizardmen. Also Chaos.
I am now very tired of trash-main armies. What would be the most different gameplay faction?
I already tried the dwarves, but they seemed so impossibly slow to do anything.
Both involve walking in a straight line towards your enemy and killing everything in your way with really expensive units and lords that can solo entire universes.
Post by: Burnt Pies on November 05, 2018, 07:36:05 pm
Chaos low tiers are trash, but it's not hard to get to the level where you can start churning out their midtier chaos warriors within a few turns of starting.
If you're just after elite endgame armies, most of them will let you swap out your early tiers of chaff for either a solid anvil infantry unit or a good attacker, along with the support in either flankers or ranged to demolish a foe. Maybe not Bretonnia; their infantry never gets good.
Avoid skaven like the plague.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 06, 2018, 04:25:12 am
Norsca is also fun. Basic units are decent already and you’re going to reach the better tiers pretty quickly. You can also go Throgg with a full-monster army if you hate the idea of infantry with a passion. It takes time and better units for that to be really worthwhile, but it’s the best when you do.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2018, 05:25:21 am
Post by: Hanslanda on November 06, 2018, 09:28:05 am
Try Bretonnia - they’re very much not slow and have quality units. The infantry is trash (well, the best ones are decent), but you’re not going to have to use it all that much. Manage your knights right and you’ll be death to anything not called Wood Elves.
Norsca is also fun. Basic units are decent already and you’re going to reach the better tiers pretty quickly. You can also go Throgg with a full-monster army if you hate the idea of infantry with a passion. It takes time and better units for that to be really worthwhile, but it’s the best when you do.
Can attest to Throgg Monster Mash being hilarious good fun.
Also Lizardmen with dinosaur armies. Get that feral cold ones mod and legions of dinosaurs will consume all in your path.
Post by: umiman on November 06, 2018, 12:29:13 pm
I like this part
Quote
Reworked group vocalisation system and added new assets for most humanoid units:
Blood Knights thirst for blood more
Bretonnians (Knights and Peasants) are now overly honourable
Dark Elves (Male, Female, and Witch Elves) are now extra malevolent
Dwarfs now hold even more grudges
Empire State Troops are now more disciplined
Goblins are now extra stabby
High Elves (Male and Female) have increased in arrogance
Orcs now Waaagh! harder than ever
Warriors Chaos and Norscans (Chosen, Marauders, and Chaos Warriors) worship the Dark Gods more intensely
Wood Elves (Male and Female) are now wilder
According to Grace, she clarifies that they recorded new voicework for those factions. Nice of them.
Post by: Levi on November 06, 2018, 12:45:52 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2018, 02:25:29 pm
Quote from: patch notes
Grimgor: +600 mass, +5 armour, +7 melee defence.
Quote from: patch notes
Grimgor: +600 mass
Quote from: patch notes
+600 mass
Aww yeah. Finally he's the 'ardest boy dere is.
Post by: Tack on November 06, 2018, 04:57:19 pm
Which is awesome.
Try Bretonnia - they’re very much not slow and have quality units. The infantry is trash (well, the best ones are decent), but you’re not going to have to use it all that much.Can confirm. Grail Guardians and Questing knights end up being your line units, which is both a very weird way to play and not as terrible as first assumed against anything with spears.
Post by: Teneb on November 06, 2018, 05:52:03 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on November 06, 2018, 09:27:38 pm
Quote from: Patch Notes
Gaze of Nagash: increased accuracy, changed to a higher ballistic trajectory
Shem’s Burning Gaze: increased accuracy, changed to a higher ballistic trajectory
Vindictive Glare: increased accuracy, changed to a higher ballistic trajectory, -1 power cost
Vindictive Glare Upgraded: increased accuracy, changed to a higher ballistic trajectory, -1 power cost
Gaze of Mork: increased accuracy, changed to a higher ballistic trajectory, -1 power cost
Gaze of Mork: increased accuracy, changed to a higher ballistic trajectory, -1 power cost
This is nice. If this means they're changed like I think then these magic missiles will be much more useful when on flat terrain.
Shield of Thorns now adds Physical Resistance instead of Missile Resistance and Regrowth now replenishes Vigour instead of adding Physical Resistance.
They also seem to have worked on artillary moving towards the towers when told to attack them.
Post by: sambojin on November 06, 2018, 10:23:38 pm
Skaven
Tretch
Lord:
+13 MA during ambushes (moved from Faction to Lord effects)
+13 MA after retreating (moved from Faction to Lord effects)
Skarsnik
Lord:
+14 Charge Bonus Night Goblin Squig Hoppers NEW
--------
Now, *THAT'S* sneaky. Or, you know, a typo.
Wurrzag's -50% savage orc recruitment cost is pretty huge too. Absolutely massive infantry attrition horde for next-to-nothing. Doesn't say Big Boyz, but it might apply too. And they're not bad at half cost, even if the upkeep will be harsh in the long-term. But being able to roll out a horde of ladz with your crappy little pile of loot and regions, to get more loot and regions, will be awesome. I'm pretty sure it doesn't count for MP matches, but if it does, imagine the gubbins you could afford on top of a fairly solid centre.
It seems to be mapwide for SP (not sure how else they'd do it anyway). But even if it's just where you are, you'll be able to absolutely fill your sledgehammer with them after any bad battles. Naked orcs. Everywhere. So. Many. Mushrooms......
Waaaaggghhhhh!
Orc Pope is Go!
Instant doomstacks, you say? Just ask Gork and Mork. They'll fix ya up :)
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 08, 2018, 10:33:01 am
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2018, 10:36:38 am
All hail the mighty, the DLC is out! And super slow to download for me, but maybe I’ll do something useful in the meantime. Wonder if I should do Noctilus or Aranessa first. Spooky opera ghost also looks fun.It's not the download. TWW (both of them, plus other total war titles) use a very stupid method of updating: it clones the game folder, applies the update on top of the clone, and then deletes the original. It take a long time because your HDD is having to copy 50+ GB of data. SSD users have it way faster... but suffer from size problems since the game effectively requires double its own size.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2018, 12:27:43 pm
You can really tell they enjoy working on this project.
Post by: Empty on November 08, 2018, 01:36:00 pm
At least this one doesn't do the Shogun 2 thing where if you don't have vision over the enemy, they will cheatspawn fullstack armies instantly for free. I remember the only way to defeat the AI on legendary in Shogun 2 was to have agents over their settlements at all times for vision. If not the fullstacks never ended.
Actually this is what annoyed me about warhammer 2.
Wounding a faction leader and killing his army for him to respawn at his capitol with a full stack.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2018, 02:21:16 pm
I've never seen this happen. What does happen is that the AI has a full stack kicking around and the moment the faction leader recovers from wounds, the AI replaces that stack's leader.At least this one doesn't do the Shogun 2 thing where if you don't have vision over the enemy, they will cheatspawn fullstack armies instantly for free. I remember the only way to defeat the AI on legendary in Shogun 2 was to have agents over their settlements at all times for vision. If not the fullstacks never ended.
Actually this is what annoyed me about warhammer 2.
Wounding a faction leader and killing his army for him to respawn at his capitol with a full stack.
Post by: umiman on November 08, 2018, 02:25:37 pm
You should have been around when regiments of renown didn't have cooldown timers.At least this one doesn't do the Shogun 2 thing where if you don't have vision over the enemy, they will cheatspawn fullstack armies instantly for free. I remember the only way to defeat the AI on legendary in Shogun 2 was to have agents over their settlements at all times for vision. If not the fullstacks never ended.
Actually this is what annoyed me about warhammer 2.
Wounding a faction leader and killing his army for him to respawn at his capitol with a full stack.
Unlimited max rank units for the AI. Kill the army, it retreats, it comes back the very next turn with all the same units you killed.
But yeah like Teneb said, they don't cheatspawn stacks like the old games.
Post by: Teneb on November 08, 2018, 02:42:40 pm
/me shudders from the memory of RoR doomstacksYou should have been around when regiments of renown didn't have cooldown timers.At least this one doesn't do the Shogun 2 thing where if you don't have vision over the enemy, they will cheatspawn fullstack armies instantly for free. I remember the only way to defeat the AI on legendary in Shogun 2 was to have agents over their settlements at all times for vision. If not the fullstacks never ended.
Actually this is what annoyed me about warhammer 2.
Wounding a faction leader and killing his army for him to respawn at his capitol with a full stack.
Unlimited max rank units for the AI. Kill the army, it retreats, it comes back the very next turn with all the same units you killed.
But yeah like Teneb said, they don't cheatspawn stacks like the old games.
Post by: Persus13 on November 08, 2018, 04:04:13 pm
Post by: Shooer on November 08, 2018, 04:49:20 pm
A walking boat (just something I love) with a bundle of cannons for a hand. That fire a fairly accurate spread at good distance, and does real damage. Unlike some artillery and ranged in this game. Literally blew up a lord who was running away by firing point blank down into him and removing the last 1/4 of his health in one shot. Took a few deckhands with him but they were just cannon fodder anyway(bu-dum-tish).
Mobile artillery that does good damage, backed up by actual skirmishing ranged units (move and shoot) is just too much fun.
Add to that their main lords function like hordes that can stop in owned settlements to use local recruitment along with their own. So you get a hybrid play style that I'm liking.
So far the new faction looks and feels good.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 08, 2018, 06:15:24 pm
I’m loving the riddles and treasure hunts. Basically, you get a rough location and a riddle and have to choose the right place to dig for treasure based on it. They haven’t been very difficult to find so far, but they are very atmospheric and there’s a whole lot of ’em.
Post by: umiman on November 09, 2018, 04:34:40 am
He gets a very powerful, easily defended capital. Inside is a free landmark building that gives a ton of money. He doesn't have to deal with the starting enemy army like everyone else, instead his army starts right next to free real estate. His immediate enemies are only Bretonnia, who at this point can't do jack shit to him due to their peasants with nonexistent morale against undead with terror.
Right next to him is a powerful ally in the Red Duke. And right on the other side is Marienburg, free for the taking.
There's only three things to be even remotely afraid of. Orks, Dwarfs, and Leonceur's starting army stack.
I think if you wanted to aim for the legendary difficulty achievement, Kemmler's is the easiest.
---------
Edit: Jesus christ, Bloodlines are so strong. The buffs are huge and the lords you unlock all come with the Immortal trait. Also they all get custom skill trees and spell combos. For example the Von Carsteins can summon a Varghulf. Like whaaaaaaa-.
I love how the best way to get more Bloodlines is to go assassinate agents. Plays very well into the whole, "I'm actually a vampire" thing.
By the way Kemmler gets ultra cheap Necromancers so he can spam them all over the place to farm blood kisses too. In case he wasn't easy enough.
Post by: Teneb on November 09, 2018, 06:26:21 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on November 09, 2018, 11:23:20 pm
One other thing. I was looking around for ways to increase the number of Gunnery Wights and Mourngul Haunter hero slots. Apparently this can be done by one of the buildings from Pirate Coves. It also seems that there might be a bug where one of the building trees is also supposed to give more slots but is bugged. It's fixed in the Community Bug Fix workshop mod.
Edit: Specifically these buildings are the Gunports (Shuttered Gunports, level 4) and Hold (Bulk Cargo Hold, level 3) building tree for Legendary Lord ship buildings.
(https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1234481316)
From mod page:
- Fixed missing additional hero cap for Gunnery Wights and Mourngul Haunters in the fleet building chains. (CeltiK)
Edit Edit: One other small change I'm greatful for. The diplomacy screen now shows your trustworthiness as "Very High" rather than "Steadfast". Easier for me to understand the scale level.
Post by: ArchAIngel on November 10, 2018, 03:25:09 am
Guys. Beat the campaign with Direfin. Do eeeetttt.
DOOO EEETTT
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2018, 03:35:55 am
EEEEEE~Haha, all the pirate LLs have something like that in their plots. Some more nefarious than others.
Guys. Beat the campaign with Direfin. Do eeeetttt.
DOOO EEETTTSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: sambojin on November 10, 2018, 03:54:52 am
Yet would the Warhammer world dying, and being shattered into so many pieces, in the "true" GW timeline, be any different? It makes a lot more sense to retcon it into the Count's hand, into his hall of mirrors, than anything else. Head-canon or approved. I claim this theory-crafting..... now!
AoS was all just a terrible dream, a reflection of what might happen, twisted and distorted by time and hate. But is the TW:WH world any different? (yes, yes it is. It's WAY better). Seen by a busty vampire and her companions, for just a moment.....
Can someone check Wurrzag's buff quickly? I'd still love to know if it's map-wide, or just the region he's in.
Post by: Teneb on November 10, 2018, 07:33:52 am
Woah. So not only did the WH world not die, Dranchenfels totally exists. As in, the real original Drachenfels? That was around forever? That is huge. Perhaps this is in one of his mirrors, all along. A facet of truth?AoS is actually fine at this point. The only really bad thing about it are the maximum copyright names.
Yet would the Warhammer world dying, and being shattered into so many pieces, in the "true" GW timeline, be any different? It makes a lot more sense to retcon it into the Count's hand, into his hall of mirrors, than anything else. Head-canon or approved. I claim this theory-crafting..... now!
AoS was all just a terrible dream, a reflection of what might happen, twisted and distorted by time and hate. But is the TW:WH world any different? (yes, yes it is. It's WAY better). Seen by a busty vampire and her companions, for just a moment.....
Can someone check Wurrzag's buff quickly? I'd still love to know if it's map-wide, or just the region he's in.
Post by: scriver on November 10, 2018, 08:08:04 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on November 10, 2018, 08:19:31 am
Game at least improved a bit once we got some non-stormcast though.
Post by: Teneb on November 10, 2018, 09:25:32 am
The zombies are suprisingly good given that they are, well, zombies.
EDIT: Noctilus with the sword is crazy strong. Alith Anar attacked me at sea with two stacks and I managed to win anyway thanks to just how bloody strong the sword is.
Post by: Tack on November 10, 2018, 12:32:09 pm
AoS is actually fine at this point. The only really bad thing about it are the maximum copyright names.I just hope in 40k it sticks to the Death Guard, even though the Primaris names are still a little itchy.
Post by: Il Palazzo on November 10, 2018, 01:21:20 pm
Can someone check Wurrzag's buff quickly? I'd still love to know if it's map-wide, or just the region he's in.It's a lord effect, as advertised.
Post by: umiman on November 10, 2018, 01:26:57 pm
On the topic of the game, I'm playing as Noctilus and enjoying it a great deal. I've just now made a beeline for the Sword of Khaine and just finished defeating its bearer.Noctilus is my game has basically conquered the entire bottom half of the map.
The zombies are suprisingly good given that they are, well, zombies.
EDIT: Noctilus with the sword is crazy strong. Alith Anar attacked me at sea with two stacks and I managed to win anyway thanks to just how bloody strong the sword is.
Does his autoresolve have really good odds or something? The guy is kicking everyone's ass.
Post by: Teneb on November 10, 2018, 02:15:35 pm
He starts with Depth Guard + Necrofex and reminds me of a discount Mannfred. So he's got a really strong start.On the topic of the game, I'm playing as Noctilus and enjoying it a great deal. I've just now made a beeline for the Sword of Khaine and just finished defeating its bearer.Noctilus is my game has basically conquered the entire bottom half of the map.
The zombies are suprisingly good given that they are, well, zombies.
EDIT: Noctilus with the sword is crazy strong. Alith Anar attacked me at sea with two stacks and I managed to win anyway thanks to just how bloody strong the sword is.
Does his autoresolve have really good odds or something? The guy is kicking everyone's ass.
Post by: chaoticag on November 11, 2018, 03:49:29 am
Also anyone got tips for what sort of units I ought to care about for the Vampirates? I was planning on having monstrous linebackers but I'm not sure what ranged units pair with them.
Post by: FantasticDorf on November 11, 2018, 04:12:07 am
To be fair he is a Von Carstein.
Also anyone got tips for what sort of units I ought to care about for the Vampirates? I was planning on having monstrous linebackers but I'm not sure what ranged units pair with them.
Zombie pirate gunners can shoot & uh "run" at the same time, deckgunners stand-still and concentrate fire intensely, i guess if the monsterous infantry are doing a lot of the up close fighting work, you will want a mass of pirate gunners flanking to the best position so the actual deckgunners can go about their business sniping lords, large singular units and enemy blobs that can be fired into indescriminately.
Least as i've seen from watching other people play like Turin, rather than personal experience.
Post by: Majestic7 on November 12, 2018, 11:29:10 am
Post by: Teneb on November 12, 2018, 11:58:26 am
Playing as Noctilus, I accidentally acquired the Sword of Kaine. Is there really any downside to having it while being an undead murder pirate anyway?It will eventually tank your Public Order, so take the necessary precautions.
Post by: Hanslanda on November 13, 2018, 05:31:45 pm
Post by: Levi on November 14, 2018, 03:49:35 pm
Then I took out a few of the smaller human factions around, trying my best not to piss off the empire or the wood elves. I've almost got Bretonnia defeated, and plan to walk over and kill the rest of the humans on that side of the mountain range.
I ended up confederating Mousillion(sp?) because he kept dragging me into random wars, so I'm also at war with the high elves now, although I haven't actually seen any yet. I've also had a LOT of public order issues this game, I think in part because I've expanded a little too quickly and my cities aren't very well developed. :P
Post by: scriver on November 15, 2018, 05:15:21 pm
Post by: Teneb on November 15, 2018, 05:35:31 pm
I just got a steam coupon for 50% of number 2. Wondering if I should use it or chance it being lower during the winter sales. What do ya think?I think, but am not sure, that you can actually stack discounts with these coupons. I know there's going to be an autumn/spring sale, but got no clue if the coupon last 'til then.
I ended up confederating Mousillion(sp?) because he kept dragging me into random wars, so I'm also at war with the high elves now, although I haven't actually seen any yet. I've also had a LOT of public order issues this game, I think in part because I've expanded a little too quickly and my cities aren't very well developed. :PProbably low corruption in the provinces.
A tip I feel like I should share for my fellow Vampirates: Set your Necrofex Colossi to melee mode. They can shoot while moving and have AoE melee attacks (they shoot downwards, basically). Great for disrupting lines or saying "fuck it" and hunting down that annoying archer or artillery unit.
I'm currently having loads of fun as Noctilus, holding only the Galleon's Graveyard and rampaging with the SoK. It's just a stack, not even full!, of Noctilus (the mad lad has over 1k weapon strength), Gunnery Wight, Necrofex, and as many deckhands (melee/pistol/handgun) my economy currently allows (and the odd bloated corpse to act as a distraction (they die too fast to do anything else).
Post by: Shooer on November 16, 2018, 03:55:41 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Really great, when 3 units of 120 people decide to try and dog-pile a single bloated.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on November 16, 2018, 05:24:41 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on November 16, 2018, 01:22:53 pm
"Massa-Moone's Pride""This eastern pirate blade, unmatched in it's lethal sharpness, imbues it's new owner with a portion of it's previous wielder power and skill."+75 AP damage, Wind Blast.
It's an anime katana with WIND BEAMS.
Post by: Burnt Pies on November 16, 2018, 01:43:48 pm
Is that a generic item or is it one of the legendaries I haven't seen?
Post by: Sindain on November 16, 2018, 05:02:19 pm
Post by: ArchAIngel on November 16, 2018, 07:13:32 pm
+75 AP?!? That thing really could cut through a tank.Generic item, blue quality, and weapon slot.
Is that a generic item or is it one of the legendaries I haven't seen?
The Wind Blast is really more useful given the Breaths of the VC don't do too much damage to anything with decent armor.
I got that from a skull island battle. Really awesome weapon. Not sure if you can get it anyway else.I got it by kicking Tyrion's shit in early on.
Then he went and got Sunfang, the asshole.
Dunno how he got it, was busy killing Caledorians.
Post by: Teneb on November 16, 2018, 09:29:54 pm
Then he went and got Sunfang, the asshole.AI don't do quest battles. Once they hit the proper level they automatically gain their quest items.
Dunno how he got it, was busy killing Caledorians.
Post by: ArchAIngel on November 16, 2018, 09:37:35 pm
Ah, I was busy killing Caldorians, I don't know how Tyrion got the animu katana.Then he went and got Sunfang, the asshole.AI don't do quest battles. Once they hit the proper level they automatically gain their quest items.
Dunno how he got it, was busy killing Caledorians.
But I mugged it from him!
(He spent the entire battle killing two Zombie Handgun Mobs by himself while the rest of my army crushed his)
Post by: umiman on November 16, 2018, 09:41:45 pm
Welcome to the wonderful world of tarpits.Ah, I was busy killing Caldorians, I don't know how Tyrion got the animu katana.Then he went and got Sunfang, the asshole.AI don't do quest battles. Once they hit the proper level they automatically gain their quest items.
Dunno how he got it, was busy killing Caledorians.
But I mugged it from him!
(He spent the entire battle killing two Zombie Handgun Mobs by himself while the rest of my army crushed his)
Works great on lords and heroes with no AOE killing power whatsoever. Is more or less useless against guys who can uhh... walk over them.
It's also why I really don't like melee-focused lords who never get good mounts. What exactly is Tyrion going to do when he's surrounded by zombies? Maybe that's why he became such an edgelord in the end times. Couldn't handle being manhandled by the worst units in the game.
Post by: Levi on November 21, 2018, 04:25:40 pm
I've managed to take two cities so far though. I'm kind of hoping that puts a dent in the amount of armies they can field.
Post by: umiman on November 21, 2018, 05:26:18 pm
Man, I'm fighting the wood elves for the first time as Kemmler, they are kinda scary. The forest causes attrition no matter how vampiric I make it, they have lots of armies, and each time I fight them they have 37 billion arrows flying through the air.Yeah, welcome to Warhammer Vietnam.
I've managed to take two cities so far though. I'm kind of hoping that puts a dent in the amount of armies they can field.
VC are really good at dealing with them though. They can generate free units inside there and they have lots of fast moving units to catch the buggers.
Post by: Levi on November 21, 2018, 05:41:18 pm
Raising dead after each battle is the only thing keeping me going (and raiding my own territory as I take it so my guys can heal). I don't know how other races would handle it.
Post by: Grim Portent on November 21, 2018, 05:54:56 pm
WH2 made it a lot easier since you can occupy Athel Loren even though it's pretty terrible. If you take the Oak you get immunity to AL attrition (think that's still the case, been a while since I played in the area,) so that's generally my second target now. 2 or 3 stacks rush King's Glade, camp there and then slowly raid shuffle up to the OoA and try to snag it, then pick off the WElves cities as desired. Works best as Vampires, but I've made it work as Brettonnia, Tilea (mods), Skarsnik, Lothern and Clan Angrund.
The attrition is the biggest issue, but WElves are also just kind of a pain in the ass to fight most of the time.
Post by: Xardalas on November 21, 2018, 07:00:17 pm
Post by: Urist McScoopbeard on November 21, 2018, 09:39:45 pm
Post by: umiman on November 21, 2018, 10:55:59 pm
Gasp, TW:W2 has made it's way to mac and at $30 no less... is it worth the price tag? I enjoyed the first one... but mostly with the addition of a lot of mods.TW:W2 is just an improved version of the first. Drastically improved.
I think it's worth it. Also all the mod makers migrated over to W2 too.
Post by: Hanslanda on November 22, 2018, 08:13:38 am
Gasp, TW:W2 has made it's way to mac and at $30 no less... is it worth the price tag? I enjoyed the first one... but mostly with the addition of a lot of mods.TW:W2 is just an improved version of the first. Drastically improved.
I think it's worth it. Also all the mod makers migrated over to W2 too.
This.
Also now I'm playing a Vlad/Isabella game and I managed to force Mannfred to confederate and I'm being suspiciously polite and generous for psychotic blood hungry soulless monsters. I'm allied to Karak Kadrin and Zhufbar, and I'm only at war with Stirland and the orc tribes that are gobbling up Kadrin. I'm trying to grab dat third Blood Knight for
Post by: Tack on November 22, 2018, 10:10:18 pm
Post by: Majestic7 on November 23, 2018, 09:57:38 am
Post by: Teneb on November 23, 2018, 10:09:33 am
If you confederate a faction, do you get to recruit LL's they haven't recruited yet?Nope
Post by: Hanslanda on November 23, 2018, 10:36:02 am
If you confederate a faction, do you get to recruit LL's they haven't recruited yet?Nope
Yeah just the ones already active. I'll never have Herbert Ghost or whatever that one guy's name is.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 23, 2018, 08:39:20 pm
If you confederate a faction, do you get to recruit LL's they haven't recruited yet?Nope
Yeah just the ones already active. I'll never have Herbert Ghost or whatever that one guy's name is.
I do think they changed it in the patch after the Queen and the Crone came out so you can now gain the legendary lords from confederating while they're wounded.
Post by: Teneb on November 23, 2018, 08:41:19 pm
Still need to be recruited.If you confederate a faction, do you get to recruit LL's they haven't recruited yet?Nope
Yeah just the ones already active. I'll never have Herbert Ghost or whatever that one guy's name is.
I do think they changed it in the patch after the Queen and the Crone came out so you can now gain the legendary lords from confederating while they're wounded.
Post by: Burnt Pies on November 24, 2018, 08:38:23 am
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1391653276
Post by: Majestic7 on November 24, 2018, 10:02:59 am
Post by: Levi on November 24, 2018, 08:20:24 pm
The Wood Elves have been removed from the lush forests, and now live awkward but entertaining lives in the mountains.
That is all.
Post by: Teneb on November 24, 2018, 09:24:08 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on November 24, 2018, 09:41:30 pm
Speaking of mountains near the elves: Enterprising modders are remaking Kemmler's faction based on an old (Vampire Coast old) armylist for him: The Barrow Legion. (https://www.patreon.com/posts/project-hobo-pic-22864125?utm_medium=post_notification_email&utm_source=post_link&utm_campaign=patron_engagement)
Neat, I look forward to seeing how it goes.
They don't list the units at the link so here's the army list from the 1d4Chan wiki. Click expand on the far right. (https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Heinrich_Kemmler#Army_of_the_Lichemaster)
Some interesting things from the army list are Barrow Wight heroes on chariots, Shadow Druids (Etheral spell casters), skeletons with javelins, ghosts, Simulacra (apparently similar to Ushabti) and Glooms (similar to wraiths but weaker with higher unit numbers)
They also seem to be adding some extra things as they have a Terrorgeist and dragon (zombie probably) shown on their patreon page.
Edit: Apparently, Kemmlar also had his own lore of magic at one point with spells like Desiccating Grasp (Kemmler ignores armour, any wounds instantly kills target), a better Danse Macabre and Curse of Eternities which is a better Curse of Years but seems to funtion more like Fate of Bjuna does in Total War (Damage overtime to a unit, though Curse of Eternities gets stronger over time).
Post by: Tack on November 24, 2018, 11:13:32 pm
Well, i’m sold.
Post by: Majestic7 on November 25, 2018, 04:48:36 am
!!Important Notice!!
The Wood Elves have been removed from the lush forests, and now live awkward but entertaining lives in the mountains.
That is all.
But what about mountain elves, also known as goblins? They already have an ecological niche there. Both have pointy ears and sneaky nature, so both are obviously elves.
Post by: FantasticDorf on November 25, 2018, 07:44:31 am
If you confederate a faction, do you get to recruit LL's they haven't recruited yet?Nope
Yeah just the ones already active. I'll never have Herbert Ghost or whatever that one guy's name is.
I do think they changed it in the patch after the Queen and the Crone came out so you can now gain the legendary lords from confederating while they're wounded.
Grab Toddbringer, you know you want to.
Post by: Teneb on November 25, 2018, 05:16:25 pm
How bad? It crashes the game. Consistently.
How does it work? If a vampirate faction has any coves when they are wiped out, the game crashes because it can't figure out what to do with those.
I suspect hunting down and razing each cove could solve the problem, but it's still really shitty.
Post by: Hanslanda on December 04, 2018, 01:55:21 pm
I want to take it and butcher legions of foes and every. Single. Legendary lord.
Post by: Teneb on December 07, 2018, 09:33:07 am
Someone made a mod to disable them (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1584113831&searchtext=no+vampire+cove)
EDIT: This one blocks agents (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1400490407&searchtext=stupid+agents)
It's shitty that we need this to play the damn game.
Post by: Hanslanda on December 07, 2018, 10:01:50 am
Post by: Teneb on December 07, 2018, 10:10:58 am
What the teams are working on blog post (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/what-the-teams-are-working-on-november-2018)
Spoiler: tl;dr (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on December 11, 2018, 12:20:40 pm
Link to the blog page listing all the changes. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/the-festag-update-beta)
A major thing of note is the patch also includes updates to all the legendary lords and lords from the Old World races. Here's an infographic listing the changes. (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/11120416/TWWHII_FESTAG_NEWSKILLS.png)
Spoiler: List of changes (click to show/hide)
Some things of note is a fix for heroes getting 100% chance to succeed due to exhaustion wrapping past 0% back to 100%, Tomb Scorpions and Treemen don't ignore hitbacks and knock interrupts, and a fix for the crash when you destroy a Vampire Coast faction that has existing Pirate Coves.
Post by: sambojin on December 13, 2018, 08:14:56 pm
Post by: Tack on December 14, 2018, 03:00:50 am
Post by: umiman on December 15, 2018, 03:55:46 pm
Anyway, Jesus Teclis is hard. I had to restart about 4 times on my legendary run just to survive the first 10 turns. Then it's been a neverending struggle against everything. Between Itza, the Krakenlord, all the Skaven hordes here, and fucking Cylostra Direfin who is somehow allied with Mazdamundi... it's crazy hard. My only allies in the region are Khalida who is useless and has been skirmishing with my only other ally in the vicinity in the dwarfs, who are also useless.
I decided early on that to make it more fun, I'd do the Rituals instead of gaming the system and ignoring them till the end.
Goddamn, that's hard as balls as Teclis in Lustria. I'm being attacked by everything, there's no money here, and the provinces are so big and hard to defend. It's not like the ritual or intervention armies are really cheating and spawning inside my lands like in the past either. They're just marching through normally from outside my territory (I don't really have much territory to be honest) and obliterating everything in the way.
I'm on the third ritual now and I have some serious doubts whether I will survive this. My capital is being besieged by one Norscan stack, one Pestilens intervention stack, and one Naggarond intervention stack (I might have level three walls on there but I seriously doubt I will survive that). I have three Chaos + Skaven fullstacks banging on my door, being barely dealt with by my armies. And now Lord Skrolk himself is walking up with a few more fullstacks invading from all sides.
Goddamn, it's exhilarating. I also finally have something of an actual ally too. A greenskin rogue army took over some of Khalida's lands and is actually helping me against Pestilens and the Krakenlord. A greenskin. Of all things.
------------
I have two choices in my strategy against the huge invasion against my capital. What do you guys think of these:
1. I use the supercannons on the level 3 walls to their full advantage. I sally forth most of my melee troops outside the walls to hold and delay the enemy so the archers and towers can kill as much as they can. Then once my troops die or fall back, rely on the Lothern Sea Guard to hold the walls until the time runs out (20 minutes).
or
2. I fight a delaying action for 20 minutes. I buy as much time as possible by stalling the enemy everywhere will small pockets of troops and hopefully last 20 minutes.
I'm leaning towards 1. But if my troops get wiped out too fast it'd be a complete waste of time. They're fighting essentially 4 to 5 times their number so they can very easily be overrun. Option 2 has a better chance of them lasting longer, but will they last 20 minutes is the question. And even if they survive the enemy will just attack again the next round unless I find a way to kill all the siege units (of which there are A LOT).
What would you choose?
Post by: Hanslanda on December 15, 2018, 08:02:52 pm
Post by: umiman on December 16, 2018, 03:04:10 am
Sally forth, bring the war to them. Selectively. A few troops outside the walls, forcing engagement.I lost my capital lol.
I did try sallying forth but sadly a noble and a few white lions don't last very long against 3 doomwheels and 2 warp lightning cannons among other things.
Then those purple globadiers obliterated my archers on the walls. Jesus those things kill fast.
Post by: Tack on December 21, 2018, 04:45:39 pm
So far I'm having some massive fun with it. Haven't yet found out what the descendants of Arborash or Vlad look like but yeah. Big fan.
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 21, 2018, 10:40:27 pm
Right now I'm relying on autoresolve, which favours chosen a bit too much.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 21, 2018, 11:05:49 pm
Anyone has any good idea how to deal with massed mammoths? Norsca is sending armies with ~15 pachyderms. I'm playing chaos, and had an army 2/3rds chosen, some with shields, some with great axes, some with halberds, in a forest. They were all roflstomped equally easily, regardless of what weapon they were wielding. The first five elephants reduced their numbers by half by themselves.
Right now I'm relying on autoresolve, which favours chosen a bit too much.
I think I usually shoot them, so maybe Marauder Horsemen? Dragon Ogres also have anti-large so they might help. I'd probably try and lower their leadership through Doom and Darkness as well. Maybe Aspect of the Dreadknight to counter the terror the mammoths cause. A spell to lower their armour would help with the shooting tactic.
Though, othertimes, I've focused more on dealing with the rest of the enemy army than the mammoths themselves. If they've got 5 mammoths, that's 5 less units of other things like infantry which means it's easier to bring their army model numbers down and make them flee due to casaulties.
Post by: Il Palazzo on December 21, 2018, 11:20:03 pm
I'm just surprised how shitty the chosen proved to be. Their performance wasn't much different than what I remember skeleton spearmen could do.
Post by: Burnt Pies on December 21, 2018, 11:26:04 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on December 22, 2018, 06:45:01 am
Post by: scriver on December 22, 2018, 08:17:53 am
So yeah I've been trying the Vamp Counts post-rework and they are Awesome. Every bloodline is distinct both visually and in stats (except maybe strigoi?). Necrarch vampires carry staves and have terrible melee stats, whilst Lahmians are female and duellists with a mixed vampires/shadow magic tree. Plus they get their own unique yellow tree. Necrarches can end up having either 3 cost Invohek or 6 cost Invohek upgraded, which is obscene.
So far I'm having some massive fun with it. Haven't yet found out what the descendants of Arborash or Vlad look like but yeah. Big fan.
I've been playing them too.
My main issue is that the old campaigns still have those campaign sub goals thingies which fucks with me so bad. I want to not give a damn and focus on what I want to go (confederate with the other Legendary Lord factions and Moussilon) but I want to fulfil then so much. It's messing with my enjoyment.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 14, 2019, 02:27:05 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Retropunch on January 14, 2019, 04:08:54 am
I don't know how the game decides how badly you won/lost, but it seems a bit fucky.
//
"close"
I've found the exact same thing - I think it really, really can't work out battles for Skaven. I've had battles that went really badly which got a decisive and battles that were just like yours with a close victory. I wonder if it takes into account leadership or something - skaven often run off at around half health (unless you've got a lord with them etc.) and then come back so it might be that they're counting them as 'lost' units or something.
Anyway, as much as I love Skaven it's a pain having to fight every battle manually. The only trick I've found is to get ambush stats really high - the computer obviously values ambushes extremely highly and can auto-battle it way better than I can - I've found Skaven comparatively weak in an ambush as you can't use artillery well, which negates a major strength and if you're awaiting reinforcements you can often take heavy losses before they arrive.
Post by: Teneb on January 14, 2019, 08:07:00 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 14, 2019, 12:12:48 pm
Post by: Retropunch on January 14, 2019, 03:36:45 pm
I think the game counts leadership a little too highly, so swarms of low leadership troops are penalized even if you have enough to overwhelm the enemy and gank them from all sides.
Agreed, it's the only thing that makes sense. I suppose if they didn't give leadership high priority you'd end up with the default strategy being stocking up on tons of skavenslaves and roflstomping everything in auto. I do wish they'd balance it out a bit though as currently Skaven has to be pretty much completely manual - I've absolutely obliterated sieges with a decisive victory (with my tactic being literally walking my skaven straight to the front door) that auto has put me at a decisive defeat with barely any damage to the defenders.
As I mentioned, ambush is great for levelling it out though - I always auto my ambushes and win every time.
Post by: sambojin on January 14, 2019, 06:43:59 pm
Or the Waaaaggghhh! Never underestimate the fact that your victory or defeat may actually be a Glorious Victory for the Waaaaggghhhh! Ever.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 15, 2019, 12:37:14 pm
I've gotten to the end of my Skaven campaign and I'm honestly not sure if I have the heart to finish the last 20 turns. I have a significant presence in all regions except Ulthuan, I razed Lothem to the ground, I have so many armies and heroes. My turns just take so damn long and while I love my armies I've had so many fights with the same units against the same basic opponents.
Spoiler: commentary on Skaven units (click to show/hide)
Post by: umiman on January 15, 2019, 05:02:55 pm
The rest of Skaven's army really just exists to bog down the enemy unit those units nuke them. They don't really do much on their own.
While this translates pretty well in singleplayer, which is what matters the most, online it's the same issue as Dwarfs. As in... once you kill some high value targets like their artillery, they're useless. This is very easily achieved in MP battles due to all the various ways of sniping targets. Flying units, mages, empire witch hunters, etc. etc. Too many ways to get rid of Skaven's only way to fight.
Post by: Retropunch on January 15, 2019, 06:01:53 pm
My strategy currently is to keep a hell pit abomination back until everyone is engaged, bring it round the back and then just smash into the enemy flank along with a vermintide or two and a menace below - everything immediately routes and then I can chase them down at my leisure.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 15, 2019, 07:19:18 pm
In singleplayer you can boost certain Skaven units past their normal potential with the red battle skills and combat buffs. For example stormvermin with all the relevant skills + an overcast battle frenzy and clan mors clanstone can fight pretty much any infantry in the game, at least until the buffs run out. You can make gutter runners kite monsterous creatures, and I bet if you got every possible speed buff you could make them kite cavalry. Both standard leaders and warlock engineers have buffs that can make normal missile units fire faster so stacking a bunch of those on slingers can be crazy. All in all tho, I mostly stacked -upkeep and +ammo on siege weapons, cause its simple and it works.
But yeah, in multiplayer I would... um. Recruit 10 siege engines and 9 plague priests with vermintide? I dunno, with only 20 unit slots there's not much to work with. You could bring a bunch of stormvermin+rat ogres and be a shittier version of every other faction.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 15, 2019, 09:40:03 pm
Lord
Plague Priest
Warlock Engineer
Assassin
2-3 slaves
3 Clanrat Spears
1 Stormvermin Halberds
2 Night Runners Throwing stars
2 Gutter Runners Throwing stars
2 Plagueclaw Catapults
Last three slots some mix of Warpfire Throwers, Globadiers or Rat Ogres. I may swap out the slaves for some Plague Monks, especially if it's my main army with Lord Skrolk. A warplightning cannon instead of a catapult.
With ambushes I usually divide my army in two and ambush from both sides at the same time, surrounding the enemy and flanking with warpfire throwers and globadiers. My artillary are usually placed a fair distance off looking down the enemy column from the front or back.
During the campaign I also tend to have a throwaway warlord leading an army made up of about 3 clanrat units and the rest slaves. The extra bodies are used to swarm the walls during sieges, either using ladders or going through holes in the walls.
I find magic is a big help for Skaven armies. Pestilent Breath is fantastic for grouped enemy units while Wither is great for basically anything. Those are the two spells I use the most. Plague is alright but I find it doesn't deal that much damage. Bless with Filth is kind of eh. Vermintide and Pestient Birth are nice (especially with the mod that stops summons from degrading).
Warplightning is great for units on walls and in tight groups, Death Frenzy would be nice against armies that cause fear like the undead. I'm not that impressed by Scorch and haven't used Crack's Call enough to really say much about it though I think you need to overcast it to get good usage. Skitterleap is fun to use on assassins and with other buffs I've gotten assassins that move at light cavalry speeds.
Post by: Tack on January 16, 2019, 04:05:33 am
Something that took the entire caimpaign for me to figure out is that cones can be aimed freely from the target point.Another fun hack, holding alt lets you free aim artillery fire.
Post by: Retropunch on January 16, 2019, 06:47:16 am
A hell pit abomination does great work for one slot - it's not great compared to other monsters, but I add as many speed and charge buffs as I can on it and just use it to smash into the side of the main line of enemy units in sort of hit and run type tactics. It's pretty much the only unit I micro around and take it where it's needed.
Post by: Teneb on January 16, 2019, 08:04:31 am
Post by: Mech#4 on January 18, 2019, 10:06:44 am
I've had it perform not nearly as impressively against weaker units, orc boyz and the like, but it really does seem to deal most of its damage only against heavily armoured targets.
If someone would like to see how I deal with an ambush as Skaven vs Dwarfs, here's a link to the .replay file on Dropbox (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ufj8fd3359nlopc/Skaven%20Ambush%20Dwarfs%20plague.replay?dl=0). I play on normal with large unit sizes.
Spoiler: Army Lists (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Notes on watching replay (click to show/hide)
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 18, 2019, 03:38:18 pm
Also unless you need to kill large, single model units, I'd swap out the warp lightning cannon for a catapult. The catapult is unbelieveably effective against armored infantry. Its also bizarrely precise: it can hit flying units, or lob shots almost point blank over the heads of allied infantry as long as they're on slightly lower elevation. See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.
Post by: umiman on January 18, 2019, 04:02:15 pm
I would highly advise making handing off Queek's army to another lord and filling his up with stormvermin halberdiers. Your army is fine, its just... Queek gives half upkeep on stormvermin which makes them about as affordable as clanrats.I personally found the warp lightning cannon to be way scarier than the catapult.
Also unless you need to kill large, single model units, I'd swap out the warp lightning cannon for a catapult. The catapult is unbelieveably effective against armored infantry. Its also bizarrely precise: it can hit flying units, or lob shots almost point blank over the heads of allied infantry as long as they're on slightly lower elevation. See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.
The catapult is absolutely useless against large units. Warp lightning cannon shreds them.
The catapult is only good against clumps of infantry, like all catapult units. Warp lightning cannon is good against everything and will shred infantry lines too.
For almost all factions except the Dwarfs, most of their scary, threatening units are small model size, not clumps of units. Dragons, cavalry, lords, heroes, monsters, giant fucking lizards, etc. These are priority one targets. This is what your artillery should nuke. Warp lightning cannon is ideal for this.
Catapult, like all catapults, can't really aim for shit. They miss like 1/2 their shots. It's why they're only useful against large groups. Warp lightning cannon is deadly accurate and will down a pegasus from across the map. This is huge, and is why even though the catapult technically does more damage I don't think it's as good, it keeps missing.
Warp lightning only has one flaw compared to the catapult. It's like guns. Can't arc its shots. So when the enemy lines hit, you can't really do anything. That being said... most times the catapult can't do anything at that close range too. If anything the lightning cannon can actually hit the large units attacking your front line, which might make it better.
The warp lightning cannon is like having 4 Luminark of Hysh's in one unit.
Post by: Retropunch on January 18, 2019, 04:08:05 pm
I find that catapults can fire relatively close - I can normally keep firing throughout as long as my battle line has moved a bit forward. I normally tend to truck them into a better spot later on if there's one near by.
I'd also recommend putting the warp lighting cannon to one side - it can be easily moved round to hit the stuff from the side (keeping it useful), and being side on assists with fewer misses.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 18, 2019, 05:29:46 pm
Even against monstrous infantry, the warp lightning cannon is pretty wasteful. Since you're unlikely to hit more than 1 due to the way those units stand, your absolute best scenario is killing one every shot. Against a unit type that typically has bad defensive stats and 12 models, that's not impressive.
IME the only case where the lightning cannon will do better in single player is firing at units that only have one model. So... against high elves for example, warp lightning cannon is never better (unless you're up against 5+ flying creatures but siege weapons aren't what wins you that fight anyway). Against lizardmen on the other hand its indispensable.
So, early and midgame, in Eye of the Vortex, that's... one faction I would bring a warp lightning cannon against. I guess if I was playing as Clan Rictus I'd bring a couple to fight Morinth to take out her starting Hydra. In the lategame the formula completely turns around tho. The armies from the last two rituals are going to be swarming with monstrous creatures, and also a cannon can take out those nasty lvl 5 garrison towers about twice as fast as a catapult. Although because of angles a catapult will be much better at clearing the walls, and the only one of the two useful against things on the other side of a wall. I've tried to use lightning cannons defensively by having an infantry unit stand in a gate and the cannon fire through it... would not recommend.
This may be an issue of difficulty tho. On normal battle difficulty, Skaven aren't worried about lords, cavalry, light infantry, archers... most things really. If you can beat it by selecting two spears + shields clanrats and right clicking on it, its not a threat. Its pretty much just "what do I do against armored infantry," that's your only real problem. Stat bonuses in this game apply much more heavily to weak units and high model count units than to strong units and low model count units. So at higher difficulties, elites and low model count units become vastly more important. Because if you take an already better unit and bump up its melee defense using a multiplier rather than addition... weak units just won't be able to hit it. I guarantee you on normal difficulty I have never met a calvalry unit that cannot be beaten by clanrat spears with shields, usually 1v1. I imagine that becomes far less viable on legendary battle difficulty (which is why I personally bump up caimpaign difficulty and leave battle difficulty alone). Same disclaimer as before: all of this is singleplayer. In multiplayer my strat would be "don't play Skaven".
Post by: Mech#4 on January 18, 2019, 10:08:52 pm
I would highly advise making handing off Queek's army to another lord and filling his up with stormvermin halberdiers. Your army is fine, its just... Queek gives half upkeep on stormvermin which makes them about as affordable as clanrats.
Also unless you need to kill large, single model units, I'd swap out the warp lightning cannon for a catapult. The catapult is unbelieveably effective against armored infantry. Its also bizarrely precise: it can hit flying units, or lob shots almost point blank over the heads of allied infantry as long as they're on slightly lower elevation. See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.
Nope, I make armies with usually only 1 unit of Stormvermin. They're the lords bodyguard. It's a hold over I have from 6th edition Skaven rules where you could only take 1 unit of stormvermin in the entire army. I like making do with less of the elite units then absolutely neccessary. The army is like this because I had recently confederated with Clan Mors and that's what Queeks army was like, hence the 8 units of Clanrats, it's unchanged from what the A.I. recruited.
The catapults nice but I'd take it more for its contaminated effect then the damage it can do. -10 leadership is good to push wavering units over to fleeing.
Post by: Tack on January 19, 2019, 11:31:31 am
See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.we shall take-take their slide-rules
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 21, 2019, 12:07:13 pm
Find sine-sine for Horned Rat!See, magic is nice, but Skaven siege operators have mastered the most violent and powerful school of forbidden knowledge: trigonometry.we shall take-take their slide-rules
I love Skaven so much. As is they're horrifying, but if you made them maybe two or three steps less genuinely dangerous they would be ineffectual children's cartoon villains.
Quote from: steam chat with my friend
oh my god. I'm literally a Redwall villain
Post by: nenjin on January 21, 2019, 01:22:10 pm
Post by: Hanslanda on January 22, 2019, 04:02:03 pm
Skaven are easily my favorite baddie GWS race. It used to be orks, before GWS forgot how to have fun and just put more spikes on literally everything.
This. Skaven are literally capable of being a world ending menace, but they're so hilariously incompetent and backstabbing that they usually fuck up badly. They're the Hillary Clinton of WH factions.
Post by: Mech#4 on January 22, 2019, 11:19:10 pm
Spoiler: Change List (click to show/hide)
Some of the more notable things, and things that I'm pretty sure weren't in the previous version of the beta patch, is some skills for Throgg that buff troll units (previously, I think the lord skill changes had removed such buffs). Adding the missing wall building chain to Wurtbad, Troll Lair to Karak Kadrin and fixed double Beast Lairz in Karak Angazhar for Greenskins. Also changed so Wood Elves can trade with Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast after assigning a council seat.
There's also a change to lord recruitment level. Tying into an issue people had with Black Arcs replacing higher ranked lords in the recruitment pool, the lord level increases some buildings give are now applied to every province. The example given was the building Palace of Dread Knights which previously increasesd lord recruitment rank by +2. It now increases it by +1 but this affects every province so lords you recruit should be of significantly higher level later on in the campaign.
This has also been added to some other faction buildings, listed below:
Vampire Counts – Necromancer’s Tower
Brettonia – Cathedral of the Lady
Norsca – Vikti Temple
Vampire Coast – Pirate Wharf
Post by: IcyTea31 on January 26, 2019, 01:28:13 pm
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 29, 2019, 06:41:44 pm
Like don't get me wrong, I'm digging it. Its like Tolkien in the age of sail. The Empire seems to be the Holy Viking Empire (deifying a Conan the Barbarian dude instead of ancient emperors as happened in Rome), which I'm fine with. And the "chaos" races seem to be a metaphor for wilderness, anarchy, and decay. Essentially what the world is if humans don't tame it. So the whole game is basically a dramatization of Man's ancient quest to build a house and keep everything else out of the house. Which is a better definition of good + evil than most fantasy stories have, in the end.
Anyway I like the setting its just... not what I expected from from being introduced to 40k first.
Post by: Grim Portent on January 29, 2019, 09:25:49 pm
Fantasy is mostly just 'the good guys hate each other more than usual for fantasy, and we don't shy away from Ogres eating children or mutant babies being abandoned in the woods' type dark, with a lot of black humour thrown in.
Post by: IcyTea31 on January 30, 2019, 05:28:40 am
In contrast, the overarching theme of 40k is that we've reached the end of that spiral, everything is truly lost and nothing matters anymore. We've forgotten what we fight for and thus have become only barely distinguishable from our enemies. We keep fighting not because we want to, but because it's the only thing we still know how to do.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 30, 2019, 07:19:54 am
They're inspired by different sources, 40k took a lot of inspiration from things like Mad Max, Alien and Judge Dredd and so on. Dystopian sci-fi was very much in when the basic concepts of 40k were being laid down, while Fantasy was inspired by D&D, historical trivia and pulp fantasy.Yeah, 40k is very 80s.
Fantasy is mostly just 'the good guys hate each other more than usual for fantasy, and we don't shy away from Ogres eating children or mutant babies being abandoned in the woods' type dark, with a lot of black humour thrown in.
It's a quest to build a house and keep everything else out of the house, as you say, but you should realize that you're building it on the ashes of the mansion you burned down the last time something got in. The overarching theme of Fantasy is that the greatness of the past can never be truly rebuilt, and something is lost every time the pieces are put back together; it's an unavoidable spiral towards utter decay, but maybe, just maybe, we can slow it down if we fight for what we believe in.I've been told that 40k has gotten slightly lighter lately with humanity having more hope. But back when I was playing (4th or 5th edition) in the lore the demise of humanity seemed pretty much inevitable. With the lore of Tyranids in particular, by the established rules of the universe its really hard to see how humanity could possibly survive their invasion. The only equivalent I can think of to that in fantasy is chaos, but from what I understand chaos is no longer oozing into reality and as long as the agents of chaos are pushed back things won't get worse. Fantasy in takes a more freeform, Discworld style approach to gods where like yeah the chaos gods are a huge threat but all the other factions have their own faith powered avatars including the empire. In 40k its implied that the chaos gods ARE humanity's only gods and any plan to defeat or contain them in a permanent way would require wiping out humanity alongside most or all other organic life (orcs and dark eldar in particular). Which is... yeah. You just can't win in 40k. Again some of that may have been retconned. I remember when I first started playing Tau were still bright eyed idealists.
In contrast, the overarching theme of 40k is that we've reached the end of that spiral, everything is truly lost and nothing matters anymore. We've forgotten what we fight for and thus have become only barely distinguishable from our enemies. We keep fighting not because we want to, but because it's the only thing we still know how to do.
Post by: IcyTea31 on January 30, 2019, 09:45:55 am
With the lore of Tyranids in particular, by the established rules of the universe its really hard to see how humanity could possibly survive their invasion. The only equivalent I can think of to that in fantasy is chaos,The Skaven are the Fantasy equivalent to tyranids, being the devouring swarm of omnicidal nazi rats they are.
Quote
but from what I understand chaos is no longer oozing into reality and as long as the agents of chaos are pushed back things won't get worse.In TW:WH2, the Eye of the Vortex campaign is about this very thing. In short, the thing keeping chaos from oozing into reality is up for grabs, and everyone is screwed if it falls to the wrong hands.
Post by: Teneb on January 30, 2019, 02:37:52 pm
Also orcs saved the world one time but it was retconned.With the lore of Tyranids in particular, by the established rules of the universe its really hard to see how humanity could possibly survive their invasion. The only equivalent I can think of to that in fantasy is chaos,The Skaven are the Fantasy equivalent to tyranids, being the devouring swarm of omnicidal nazi rats they are.Quotebut from what I understand chaos is no longer oozing into reality and as long as the agents of chaos are pushed back things won't get worse.In TW:WH2, the Eye of the Vortex campaign is about this very thing. In short, the thing keeping chaos from oozing into reality is up for grabs, and everyone is screwed if it falls to the wrong hands.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on January 30, 2019, 03:33:08 pm
*I have no evidence for that last sentence but its my fan interpretation and I'm sticking to it
Post by: IcyTea31 on January 30, 2019, 04:08:27 pm
Also the very most powerful Skaven low-key understand that their god hates everything and actually completing their ultimate goals would be a bad idea.They're fine with that: the Skaven hate everything, including themselves. Omnicide means omnicide, no?
Post by: ZeroGravitas on January 30, 2019, 04:13:02 pm
They're inspired by different sources, 40k took a lot of inspiration from things like Mad Max, Alien and Judge Dredd and so on. Dystopian sci-fi was very much in when the basic concepts of 40k were being laid down, while Fantasy was inspired by D&D, historical trivia and pulp fantasy.Yeah, 40k is very 80s.
Fantasy is mostly just 'the good guys hate each other more than usual for fantasy, and we don't shy away from Ogres eating children or mutant babies being abandoned in the woods' type dark, with a lot of black humour thrown in.
You know, I hadn't appreciated to what extent a lot of 80s stuff had influenced 40k until I read this (rather poor) article: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Blizzard-manage-to-get-away-with-ripping-off-Warhammer-40k-in-such-an-obvious-manner-when-it-made-starcraft thought it has plenty of good references to 80s culture.
edit: although, no mention of Bruce Sterling's short story, Swarm, which seems like it was a big influence on the Tyranid/Zerg
Post by: Retropunch on January 31, 2019, 10:56:44 am
Like don't get me wrong, I'm digging it. Its like Tolkien in the age of sail. The Empire seems to be the Holy Viking Empire (deifying a Conan the Barbarian dude instead of ancient emperors as happened in Rome), which I'm fine with. And the "chaos" races seem to be a metaphor for wilderness, anarchy, and decay. Essentially what the world is if humans don't tame it. So the whole game is basically a dramatization of Man's ancient quest to build a house and keep everything else out of the house. Which is a better definition of good + evil than most fantasy stories have, in the end.
Whilst a lot of the black library books are trash, there's a few good ones which go into it more which are worth a look at (especially Blackhearts, my personal favourite). The main difference for me between Warhammer and most other fantasy is that ALL the races are terrible - there's no good guys. The Empire are religious fanatical imperialists posing as keeping order (and both sometimes using dark magic whilst simultaneously shunning it), whilst Bretonnia seem good until you realise their whole system of peasantry etc. etc.
Skaven are my favourite, as they almost seek like a joke race (Splinter from TMNT lol) until you look into it a bit deeper and they're truly horrifying. I honestly believe they're one of the best creations of GW.
There have been some good GW writers, but I honestly believe that if someone really good came along and wrote a sort of Warhammer Epic it'd be up there with all the majors like GoT and the like. There background and lore is there, it's just that it's often squandered by terrible pulpy rubbish.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 31, 2019, 11:05:54 am
Post by: Retropunch on January 31, 2019, 11:25:35 am
Do you mean Splinter? Shredder was a human.
Oops! I did - will edit!
Post by: MCreeper on January 31, 2019, 12:44:12 pm
Huh. Interesting. Anything specifically wrong with the article(except claims of suability? :P)?They're inspired by different sources, 40k took a lot of inspiration from things like Mad Max, Alien and Judge Dredd and so on. Dystopian sci-fi was very much in when the basic concepts of 40k were being laid down, while Fantasy was inspired by D&D, historical trivia and pulp fantasy.Yeah, 40k is very 80s.
Fantasy is mostly just 'the good guys hate each other more than usual for fantasy, and we don't shy away from Ogres eating children or mutant babies being abandoned in the woods' type dark, with a lot of black humour thrown in.
You know, I hadn't appreciated to what extent a lot of 80s stuff had influenced 40k until I read this (rather poor) article: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Blizzard-manage-to-get-away-with-ripping-off-Warhammer-40k-in-such-an-obvious-manner-when-it-made-starcraft thought it has plenty of good references to 80s culture.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on January 31, 2019, 01:05:57 pm
Huh. Interesting. Anything specifically wrong with the article(except claims of suability? :P)?They're inspired by different sources, 40k took a lot of inspiration from things like Mad Max, Alien and Judge Dredd and so on. Dystopian sci-fi was very much in when the basic concepts of 40k were being laid down, while Fantasy was inspired by D&D, historical trivia and pulp fantasy.Yeah, 40k is very 80s.
Fantasy is mostly just 'the good guys hate each other more than usual for fantasy, and we don't shy away from Ogres eating children or mutant babies being abandoned in the woods' type dark, with a lot of black humour thrown in.
You know, I hadn't appreciated to what extent a lot of 80s stuff had influenced 40k until I read this (rather poor) article: https://www.quora.com/How-did-Blizzard-manage-to-get-away-with-ripping-off-Warhammer-40k-in-such-an-obvious-manner-when-it-made-starcraft thought it has plenty of good references to 80s culture.
oh it just lacks an analysis of its comparisons while just saying "x was ripped from y" without discussing the characteristics of x and y. if you follow up on them they make sense. yes, tyranids are like xenomorphs in some ways, but it helps to explain why.
on the other hand it's also worth noting what 40k left behind from its sources, which can be as important as what it takes. for example, over the decades, a large amount of the "tongue-in-cheek" parts of 40k were lost in favor of just grimmy grim grimdarkness. which is something that, say, Heavy Metal had more of.
Post by: Frumple on January 31, 2019, 01:12:48 pm
Post by: Persus13 on January 31, 2019, 01:15:39 pm
Huh. Interesting. Anything specifically wrong with the article(except claims of suability? :P)?In addition, the person who wrote the article seems to have confused the book version and the film version of Starship Troopers with each other. I'm also inclined to doubt his claims of anything with a race of bug aliens or skinny aliens is a rip-off of Starship Troopers, because those two tropes are fairly generic and science fiction as a genre had started before the 1950s.
Post by: Teneb on January 31, 2019, 01:51:50 pm
It *might* be Starship Troopers only because it popularized the "Alien Bug Swarm of DOOOOM (In Sphess!)" as a sci-fi staple.Huh. Interesting. Anything specifically wrong with the article(except claims of suability? :P)?In addition, the person who wrote the article seems to have confused the book version and the film version of Starship Troopers with each other. I'm also inclined to doubt his claims of anything with a race of bug aliens or skinny aliens is a rip-off of Starship Troopers, because those two tropes are fairly generic and science fiction as a genre had started before the 1950s.
Post by: ZeroGravitas on January 31, 2019, 02:35:51 pm
Huh. Interesting. Anything specifically wrong with the article(except claims of suability? :P)?In addition, the person who wrote the article seems to have confused the book version and the film version of Starship Troopers with each other. I'm also inclined to doubt his claims of anything with a race of bug aliens or skinny aliens is a rip-off of Starship Troopers, because those two tropes are fairly generic and science fiction as a genre had started before the 1950s.
i don't know about that. War of the Worlds pretty much started the alien invasion subgenre, without any real focus on the nature of the martians. even thought it was originally published in serials in 1898, it wasn't until the full republication in the late 1920s that it became really popular (and the infamous radio show). even when you had a lot of interactions with aliens in early sci-fi, you had a lot of "they're just green humans" or extra arms. the barsoom stuff is a good example (along with any other planetary romance).
existential war with a non-humanoid race is really an element of cold war culture. part of the cultural milieu of the time is the second red scare, and the association of Soviet and Maoist economic policies with collectivization, which is then likened to eusocial insects (bees and ants) that work for the good of the hive, and don't actually reproduce themselves. that the war will either result in the total destruction of one side or the other is also an element of nuclear war, which, again, something new to the 1950s.
ironically i would say heinlein's power armor is less original. specifically human-sized suits with mounted energy weapons were in short stories in 1930s, maybe earlier.
Post by: Digital Hellhound on January 31, 2019, 04:24:29 pm
I don't know about Fantasy, but early 40k was some definitely wild. Lion El'Jonson and the Dark Angels were named after Lionel Johnson and his 'Dark Angel' poem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lionel_Johnson). I've seen people claim that the Primarch Angron was named after the bouncer of a local pub called 'Angry Ron', though it seems to me more likely that they just thought 'hey, what would be a good name for a really angry dude? Hmm...'. There were Inquisitors named Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau. Half-Eldar Ultramarine hybrids existed. It feels like they just threw in every in-joke and cool thing they could think of, and now decades later they have to maintain a consistent setting on this legacy. It's great.
Post by: Tack on February 01, 2019, 12:18:00 am
On the other side we have surtha ek with 5 chariots and 3 icewolf chariots, along with a clutch of marauders and spearmen.
Holy crap was it one of the most intense fights I've ever done. I had to make a little box far inside of a clump of trees in order to give me some chance of slowing those chariots down, which sort of worked, but quality has a quantity of its own. Killed four units of chariots, and knocked the others down to two or one models each. Still lost though.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 01, 2019, 12:23:03 pm
That said, I've not played a huge amount of Imperial, so why so many captains?
Post by: Teneb on February 01, 2019, 12:44:16 pm
Settra go home; Surtha Ek is the true chariot king.Captains can be specced into becoming an aerial hit-squad for your amy, thus giving the Empire some aerial power, one of the few areas where they lack.
That said, I've not played a huge amount of Imperial, so why so many captains?
Post by: umiman on February 01, 2019, 01:46:53 pm
Captains get griffins now? I haven't played Empire in so long so I have no idea.Settra go home; Surtha Ek is the true chariot king.Captains can be specced into becoming an aerial hit-squad for your amy, thus giving the Empire some aerial power, one of the few areas where they lack.
That said, I've not played a huge amount of Imperial, so why so many captains?
Post by: Persus13 on February 01, 2019, 03:04:10 pm
They've had Pegasi mounts as an option for ages.Captains get griffins now? I haven't played Empire in so long so I have no idea.Settra go home; Surtha Ek is the true chariot king.Captains can be specced into becoming an aerial hit-squad for your amy, thus giving the Empire some aerial power, one of the few areas where they lack.
That said, I've not played a huge amount of Imperial, so why so many captains?
Post by: Teneb on February 01, 2019, 03:53:40 pm
I think they don't get griffons, no, but pegasus is still fine for dive-bombing.They've had Pegasi mounts as an option for ages.Captains get griffins now? I haven't played Empire in so long so I have no idea.Settra go home; Surtha Ek is the true chariot king.Captains can be specced into becoming an aerial hit-squad for your amy, thus giving the Empire some aerial power, one of the few areas where they lack.
That said, I've not played a huge amount of Imperial, so why so many captains?
Post by: EnigmaticHat on February 03, 2019, 01:44:20 pm
If you want to go with the areal hit squad, mix in a beasts mage. AFAIK its the only imperial hero to get a griffon. Plus if you overcast his two buffs you can make your flying units faster and harder to kill.
Post by: Hanslanda on February 03, 2019, 01:47:40 pm
Post by: Tack on February 03, 2019, 07:40:16 pm
Post by: Wiles on February 04, 2019, 07:30:31 am
Post by: Teneb on February 04, 2019, 11:02:46 am
Any tips for stopping the green tide? I'm playing as lizardmen and north of me the greenskins expanded unchecked for a good 100 turns. I thought I had better intervene before they got too out of control but I fear I might have been too late. For every stack I kill three more march down from the mountains. They've broken through my front line and there are armies roaming around my territory sacking and razing everything. I have no problem fighting them, one of my stacks can wipe 2+ of theirs, but they seem to build them up faster than I can knock them down.Send another stack to raze/capture their cities while their stacks are on the field?
Post by: EnigmaticHat on February 04, 2019, 10:35:08 pm
Any tips for stopping the green tide? I'm playing as lizardmen and north of me the greenskins expanded unchecked for a good 100 turns. I thought I had better intervene before they got too out of control but I fear I might have been too late. For every stack I kill three more march down from the mountains. They've broken through my front line and there are armies roaming around my territory sacking and razing everything. I have no problem fighting them, one of my stacks can wipe 2+ of theirs, but they seem to build them up faster than I can knock them down.Just kill their stacks. Greenskins have a snowball mechanic, which is fightiness. If their armies start to win victories they'll get leadership bonuses and also spawn large waaagh stacks which will reek even more havoc. On the other hand if you defeat them and force a retreat they'll end up at low fightiness, suffering attrition. Also unlike lizardmen (who can dump near-infinite amounts of money into making their buildings better) Greenskin buildings kinda suck and their passive income isn't going to be amazing. They're a hybrid of a horde and a normal faction, and need to keep conquering things to sustain their armies. If you push them back eventually they'll run out of steam. Also on the topic of them being a horde, as lizards you'll want to defend river crossings and mountain passes. The Greenskin AI is absolutely confident and aggressive enough to attack you on those and you'll get the maps with two little bridges, allowing you to use sauruses/dinos to take out their calvalry, negating their best advantage.
My rule of thumb for fighting Greenskins is as long as I'm taking territory *somewhere*, that's a win. Even if its one army taking one settlement every 10 turns. As long as you're making some kind of progress and they aren't, at some point things will snap into place and you'll start annihilating them.
For what its worth, fighting Greenskins is the #1 form of diplomacy in the game. Everyone in the area will love you, like expect to meet Skaven and Undead with happy little green faces and "+200: military actions against Greenskins". Try to leverage that by getting allies, which will give you vision. Keep track of who looks like they're in danger and who isn't fighting the green tide, give the latter military coordination goals on a settlement and eventually they'll send a stack over to say hi. It'll keep the heat off of you. Also if you haven't already, get a port on the west side of the continent (you're Last Defenders, right?) and make trade deals with everyone. There's a lot of money to be made there, especially for lizardmen who get a trade good off of gold in addition to the gold itself. Which BTW scout around a bit and find settlements that have gold, since Greenskins don't trade and their eco buildings aren't good, stealing (or razing) their gold mines will create a huge income swing in your favor.
Post by: Tack on February 05, 2019, 03:25:40 am
But yeah it's the same thing. They're probably pulling armies from another front right now so as soon as you nix them it should be back to the status quo.
Post by: LordPorkins on February 24, 2019, 10:17:04 pm
I think I've just found Noctilus' second in command.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 25, 2019, 01:50:31 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on March 13, 2019, 03:25:41 pm
I think this campaigns going pretty well.
Really my main enemy is the Dark Elves, as I had to kick them off of a good chunk of Ulthuan to claim it. Though their below me now in power level. Only barely though.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 15, 2019, 11:40:38 am
I'm currently attacking Galbaraz, since it's a stand in for the capital of Mourkain. My zombies are climbing over the walls and my Strigoi, lead by Ushoran himself, break down the gate and charge inside. Ushoran leaps and claws at the goblin leader, quickly reducing the little gits health. I close in to watch, removing the U.I. as one of the Strigoi nearby grabs the goblin and starts slamming him into the ground, reducing him to a pair of feet and flinging the remains away.
"How brutal!" I think as I close in on the goblins feet. However, apparently the goblin wasn't done for just yet as his remains get up and start running away, Ushoran in hot persuit of the legs and floating sword and staff.
Spoiler: Ushoran has never seen anything like it. (click to show/hide)
Edit: Image should work now?
Post by: scriver on March 15, 2019, 11:50:24 am
Post by: Mech#4 on March 15, 2019, 12:00:25 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on March 15, 2019, 03:39:13 pm
The thing is, the Power Calculator counts them as a regular army, despite the fact that they literally sit around doing fuck-all if you aren’t running around the ocean. This means that the Dark Elf power level includes ten more armies then is actually there late-game. If your fighting them through land means, then the black arks mean basically nothing. So don’t be scared by that unbalanced power bar!
Post by: Persus13 on March 15, 2019, 03:43:53 pm
Post by: EnigmaticHat on March 15, 2019, 04:53:09 pm
Quick observation about the dark elves: Black Arks are almost always a full stack, and late-game GW AI will be rocking like 10 of themNever be scared, always attack. That way the enemy country gets turned into a hellish warzone rather than your own country.
The thing is, the Power Calculator counts them as a regular army, despite the fact that they literally sit around doing fuck-all if you aren’t running around the ocean. This means that the Dark Elf power level includes ten more armies then is actually there late-game. If your fighting them through land means, then the black arks mean basically nothing. So don’t be scared by that unbalanced power bar!
Post by: Teneb on March 15, 2019, 06:23:57 pm
This goes double if you are playing as the VCs (unless Kemmler) since untainted attrition is brutal.Quick observation about the dark elves: Black Arks are almost always a full stack, and late-game GW AI will be rocking like 10 of themNever be scared, always attack. That way the enemy country gets turned into a hellish warzone rather than your own country.
The thing is, the Power Calculator counts them as a regular army, despite the fact that they literally sit around doing fuck-all if you aren’t running around the ocean. This means that the Dark Elf power level includes ten more armies then is actually there late-game. If your fighting them through land means, then the black arks mean basically nothing. So don’t be scared by that unbalanced power bar!
Post by: LordPorkins on March 15, 2019, 11:42:14 pm
I wish they could confederate though. Like, every other faction can except Tomb Kings. You'd think that Cylostra would be like "Hey, that dude has 10 more armies then me. If I join him ill get fat loot."
Maybe tie it to Notoriety. Kinda like how the Research Lords work, where you spend notoriety to get them.
Post by: Teneb on March 16, 2019, 10:37:31 am
I enjoy Vampire Coast. They can fuck you over with Corruption, AND walk around on your land all like "The Fuck you gonna do bout it?"TKs can also confederate with two exceptions: Settra Does Not Serve, so that means he can never be on the receiving end of a confederation (but he can confed others), and Arkhan the Black is universally hated so no buddies for him.
I wish they could confederate though. Like, every other faction can except Tomb Kings. You'd think that Cylostra would be like "Hey, that dude has 10 more armies then me. If I join him ill get fat loot."
Maybe tie it to Notoriety. Kinda like how the Research Lords work, where you spend notoriety to get them.
Khalida, Khatep and all the generics (except maybe the Black Pyramid ones) can confederate and get confederated normally.
Post by: LordPorkins on March 16, 2019, 11:09:58 am
Then the entire Old World gets destroyed. Good fun.
Post by: Teneb on April 04, 2019, 09:58:47 am
The Prophet and The Warlock (https://store.steampowered.com/app/965220/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__The_Prophet__The_Warlock/) pack has finally been revealed.
I was seriously expecting Thanquol instead of Ikit Claw, but I actually like this decision.
EDIT: There's a FAQ (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-prophet-the-warlock-faq/) too. I'm reading it currently, so comments will come later.
EDIT 2: Ok, so here's what the free content coming with the DLC is (Doomsayers Update):
-Skaven Under-Empire: It works much like Vampirate Coves. It allows you to build a secret base that can, eventually, result in an army rising up to destroy the surface-things. Or, if you are Skryre, you can just build and detonate a nuke.
-All lizardmen LLs will get a quest to unlock Lord Kroak as a Legendary Hero.
-Bretonnia Overhaul:
--A Vow system that replaces the old Realm->Quest->Grail one. The vows will require you to do a specific action and when completed gives you a selection of buffs.
--New technologies.
--Alberic finally has a Trident.
--Confederation dilemmas.
--All Lords start mounted.
--Peasant Mobs are free if you are under the peasant cap.
--Better garrisons.
--Longer Green Knight duration.
--Unlimited Green Knight if you reach max-level Chivalry.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 04, 2019, 11:33:56 am
The Doomflayer is a nice suprise, I was expecting the Poisonwind Mortar more than that. The Salamanders look cool also and I like the Ripperdactyls. It also looks like there's skinks with great weapons in one of the images on Steam.
Image 1 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_9b041bce3e07cee4c22c3ad161cc4663b5ad34c9.jpg?t=1554385892)
Image 2 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_dc2ae5235c2d4e107c03b6345b718063c4d718f2.jpg?t=1554385892)
Image 3 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_2ae210ef55fdffdcae9987274698e05bfa21c366.jpg?t=1554385892)
Image 4 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_a5093e060b1201bf5ca1ffc823f6ac4c617d136a.jpg?t=1554385892)
Post by: IcyTea31 on April 04, 2019, 11:45:49 am
Post by: Teneb on April 04, 2019, 12:40:06 pm
I loved the trailer, so like Predator. I'm glad the Rattling Guns and Jezzails are both two manned weapons. ::Looks at Steam images:: and the Jezzail shields have the horned rat heads on them! So great.I was expecting Stormfiends instead of the Doom-Flayer.
The Doomflayer is a nice suprise, I was expecting the Poisonwind Mortar more than that. The Salamanders look cool also and I like the Ripperdactyls. It also looks like there's skinks with great weapons in one of the images on Steam.
Image 1 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_9b041bce3e07cee4c22c3ad161cc4663b5ad34c9.jpg?t=1554385892)
Image 2 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_dc2ae5235c2d4e107c03b6345b718063c4d718f2.jpg?t=1554385892)
Image 3 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_2ae210ef55fdffdcae9987274698e05bfa21c366.jpg?t=1554385892)
Image 4 (https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/965220/ss_a5093e060b1201bf5ca1ffc823f6ac4c617d136a.jpg?t=1554385892)
EDIT: Oh wow, the Barrow Legion mod is out. (https://steamcommunity.com/linkfilter/?url=https://www.patreon.com/posts/25722951) I was expecting it for a long time.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 05, 2019, 05:18:30 am
I like the sound of the Skaven Underempire mechanic. It seems like Creative Assembly have a way to make them feasable while not being too easy to remove using heroes. Something I was thinking would be an issue was either making them permanent, thus no way to deal with corruption, or be removable by a hero but that would risk having them removed the turn after you colonise one.
Having it so the undercity is hidden but risks being noticed more as it grows is a nice way to implement it, with the option of using heroes to investigate.
I wasn't expecting Lord Kroak to make an appearance. He's a legendary hero which seems a bit odd to me but I suppose he's not really in a position to lead armies, what with being dead and all.
The overhaul for Bretonnia seems quite good. I must admit I haven't played Bretonnia since Warhammer 1. The change to the vow system seems good though we'll have to see how the A.I. handles it (one of the issues I've seen often is the A.I. building armies of peasants without focusing as strongly on cavalry as it should for Bretonnia).
I suspect some of the new technologies are going to be crusades being called against the newer factions.
Peasant mobs having free upkeep unless you have over the cap is nice, and I like the change to the Green Knight mechanic. I would always hold off on summoning him because there was limited charges.
The Forbidden Workshop mechanic for Ikit Claw sounds interesting as well. It seems like it's going to give a mixture of unit stat buffs, followers/ancillaries and different regiments of renown.
The Doomrockets sound neat, though I already get quite a headache from the Skavens warpbomb ability. Another way to lose groups of units sounds like it would make Skaven more annoying to fight against.
The Doomsphere reminds me of back during the Storm of Chaos Warhammer Fantasy campaign when a member of the Underempire Skaven forum wrote up a story for the campaign about the "Doom Hemisphere", a giant bomb built by the Skaven under Middenheim to blow the city up. In the end the Doom Hemisphere only half exploded, warping the tunnels under the city and laying dorment, waiting to be discovered again.
Something from the trailer I really like is how it seems the Doomflayers sound like lawnmowers.
Post by: Retropunch on April 05, 2019, 06:25:51 am
I just wish there was a better way to play a smaller WH2 game with the WH1 factions - The mortal empire turn time just takes ages late game (even with mods and a good SSD). I tried the faction unlocker Mod and whilst it worked well, it felt like you were a bit excluded compared to the rest of what was going on. Not sure what the solution would be, but it'd be good if they implemented a smaller campaign for each faction in WH2, with a small quest line (no need for the fixed battles etc.) and some broader goals.
Post by: Teneb on April 05, 2019, 07:43:48 am
The Bretonnia changes do sound really good - I also felt that the Green Knight was a bit of a rubbish super power; it seemed too limited and I never knew when I was using it best. I also like the Undercity idea, just as long as it isn't a 'each turn the enemy has a x% chance to discover it' - it sounds like it might be, and that always feels a bit cheap somehow.It's not a X% chance each turn apparently, but a X%¨chance each time you make some change to the under-city.
I just wish there was a better way to play a smaller WH2 game with the WH1 factions - The mortal empire turn time just takes ages late game (even with mods and a good SSD). I tried the faction unlocker Mod and whilst it worked well, it felt like you were a bit excluded compared to the rest of what was going on. Not sure what the solution would be, but it'd be good if they implemented a smaller campaign for each faction in WH2, with a small quest line (no need for the fixed battles etc.) and some broader goals.
Unfortunately I doubt what you want will happen with campaign stuff, since CA stated that many people do not want mini-campaigns for WH.
Post by: Retropunch on April 05, 2019, 09:07:57 am
It's not a X% chance each turn apparently, but a X%¨chance each time you make some change to the under-city.
Unfortunately I doubt what you want will happen with campaign stuff, since CA stated that many people do not want mini-campaigns for WH.
Ahh that's a bit better - just had visions of a million random events popping up as your undercities all keep getting discovered.
Agree that it'll probably never happen - just a bit annoying that the only way to play the old factions is in a mode that eventually becomes completely glacial. I can't get excited about jumping into a game if I know I'm going to be having to wait a minute or two per turn.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 15, 2019, 09:51:50 am
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuuLZB8nnLs)
It focuses mostly on the Skaven side of things, showing off the undercity mechanics and some of the buildings available. It also shows the Forbidden Workshop, the unit upgrades it can give as well as pieces of equipment for characters and unique units. It also shows the Doomrocket which also comes with some upgrades and costs for building them.
The undercity buildings seem quite interesting. There's buildings which increase sacking bonuses, give vanguard deployment and lightning strike for local armies as well as ones that produce resources and income at a large increase to discoverability.
"Discoverability" is how likely your undercity is to be discovered by the enemy out of 100. Some buildings increase it, like the stripmine which gives 80, while some buildings and characters can reduce it, apparently into negative numbers. Maybe it's a percentage chance per turn to be discovered? I'm not sure on that.
Edit: A bit more information from a video by Loremaster of Sotek: Apparently a number of new settlements have been added to the Mortal Empires campaign. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3manfval6iE&feature=youtu.be) This includes Kappelburg and Krugenheim for Talabecland and Nagenhof and the ruins of Mordheim for Ostermark.
The Orc fort of Massif Orcal has also been added in the mountains north of Castle Carcassonne in Bretonnia.
The settlements in the south of the Araby deserts have also been moved about, making room for a two settlement province for Tiktaq'to with Tlaqua and Cuexotl in the area where El-Kalabad was.
El-Kalabad has been moved further north about level with the Eye of the Panther and the Black Tower of Arkhan.
Post by: LordPorkins on April 15, 2019, 04:12:01 pm
Post by: Persus13 on April 15, 2019, 04:27:36 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on April 15, 2019, 05:16:57 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 15, 2019, 06:17:25 pm
It would be funny if when you discovered a Skaven undercity as the Empire it would boot up Vermintide for you.Ubersreik 5 unit needs to be a thing.
Post by: Levi on April 15, 2019, 07:53:47 pm
Post by: Tack on April 16, 2019, 12:49:52 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 16, 2019, 12:11:46 pm
Spoiler: Copy of update notes from blog (click to show/hide)
Edit:
- Feral Cold Ones are now recruitable by the Lizardmen.
- Vampire Count factions will focus on specific bloodlines (Mousillon on Blood Dragons, Necrach Brotherhood on Necrach etc).
- Lowered most hero availability to tier 3 or below for all factions.
- Removed autoresolve bonuses for playable and horde factions controlled by the AI
- Lowered Azhag’s Skullmuncha mount unlock rank from 22 to 14
- Blessed Spawnings: when you begin a new Lizardmen campaign after the Doomsayer update, There are now 4 different mission types for Blessed Spawning missions: Battle captives, Kill Entities, Raze/Sack, and Defeat X Armies.
- Rebalanced all vortex, breath, wind and explosion abilities, as a bug that was making them use a reduced radius for area of effect was fixed
- Summoned units are no longer unbreakable. Undead summons now also crumble in addition to unbinding
- Redesigned unbinding to apply for a set duration, with a first phase of light damage and a short second phase of lethal damage. Now summons will expire after a set and predictable duration
Post by: scriver on April 16, 2019, 01:06:09 pm
Found this really helpful video on how to play the Lizardmen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68BuTbMCrpQ).
Okay but how do you go not bankrupt?
Post by: Teneb on April 16, 2019, 07:49:16 pm
Post by: Tack on April 17, 2019, 01:40:07 am
Post by: LordPorkins on April 17, 2019, 10:02:12 am
Post by: Levi on April 17, 2019, 11:31:00 am
Post by: Retropunch on April 18, 2019, 04:27:24 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 18, 2019, 04:34:42 am
The discoverability mechanic is different from how I thought it was. I though it was a percentage each turn to be discovered, however, it's actually a score out of 100.
Say, you make a building that raises discoverability by 80 points. The enemy then builds a counter building in their city on the surface that increases their discoverability by +30. The 100 discoverability max is then reduced to 70, exposing your Undercity. As a counter, you can build your own counter buildings that lower your discoverability by -20 to -40 reducing your 80 to 60 or 40 and keeping it under the new threshold.
There's also a building that reduces your discoverability by -40 in one step but you lose vision over the region.
A nice detail is, as long as the settlement isn't razed, your undercity remains if the settlement above exchanges hands.
It's so much fun seeing the Skaven symbols floating over enemy cities and having them generate income for you all sneakily-like.
Post by: scriver on April 18, 2019, 07:52:53 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 18, 2019, 08:51:52 am
Post by: Tack on April 18, 2019, 12:42:09 pm
Am a fan of undercities. Especially as a reasonably quiet one can produce 2 food and have a chance to spread the undercity to nearby settlements each turn.
The more splashy bonuses i’m relatively uninterested in. If i’d wanted to take your city, there wouldn’t be an undercity there.
Post by: Mech#4 on April 18, 2019, 08:44:19 pm
Post by: umiman on April 23, 2019, 01:19:12 am
Post by: ArchAIngel on April 24, 2019, 10:31:56 am
I can only imagine what he was thinking when he saw his prized not!Nuke fail to kill this man-thing because of a enchanted shield.
I do know what was going through his mind, though, the Sword of Couronne.
In related news, Skavenblight is ded.
Post by: EnigmaticHat on April 24, 2019, 04:09:11 pm
Lizardmen have to spend a lot more time on construction than other factions. Their fully developed provinces are (IMO) more useful than those of other factions, so that's the price they pay.Found this really helpful video on how to play the Lizardmen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68BuTbMCrpQ).
Okay but how do you go not bankrupt?
In the early game get used to having a mix of units some of which are much more durable than others. That's pretty much their theme. Saurus warriors + shields, and chameleon skink skirmishers are both standouts of their early lineup.
Post by: LordPorkins on May 06, 2019, 05:02:41 pm
Like, longer than Lothern.
Lothern's united all of Ulthuan
I... I'm scared...
Post by: Teneb on May 06, 2019, 05:34:05 pm
So, I'm playing Ikit on Mortal Empires, and I was ending my turn, and I noticed that Varg's turn is taking quite longIf you pay attention, you can hear in the distance: "Asinine Mortal!"
Like, longer than Lothern.
Lothern's united all of Ulthuan
I... I'm scared...
Post by: Grim Portent on May 08, 2019, 08:31:59 am
Post by: LordPorkins on May 08, 2019, 08:32:56 am
Been getting a crash to desktop glitch when I try to autoresolve against greenskins lately. Happened with empire and lizardmen so far, both times in fights between goblins and minor settlements of mine.
Truly, Orcs' never defeated.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 15, 2019, 06:38:54 am
Amethyst Wizard: (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2019/05/14150846/Amethyst_Wizard_Poster-724x1024.jpg) Just for those who might not know. The Amethyst Wizard is a wizard that casts spells from the lore of Death. That means Purple Suns of Xerus, Life Leech and Doom and Darkness which should give the Empire even more flexibility magic wise. The only wizard type missing now is the Gold Wizard with the lore of Metal, aside from Balthasar Gelt that is.
Link to blog post about update. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/the-amethyst-update/)
Spoiler: Patch Notes: (click to show/hide)
Some big changes are:
Mournguls no longer cause Terror.
Cygor: +800 health, +35 base melee damage, +15 ap melee damage.
There's also the renaming of the settlements and areas that Tiktaq'to starts in to areas that make more sense for that area of Araby, rather than the relocation of Tlaqua from the Southlands to across the gulf into Araby.
Quite a few changes to the Underempire system as well. Generally an increase in food costs for buildings and a decrease in food production. An increase from 10 to 15 for Hero discoverability and an increase in discoverability for the Doomsphere and Warcamp buildings. The A.I. should now also remove undercities more often.
There's also an increase in Warp Fuel for the Forbidden Workshop upgrades as well as Doom Warprocket purchaces.
Post by: Persus13 on May 15, 2019, 08:39:06 am
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2019, 09:42:01 am
Post by: Levi on May 17, 2019, 09:54:06 am
Post by: Persus13 on May 17, 2019, 09:59:52 am
Post by: Mephansteras on May 17, 2019, 11:09:08 am
Thanks!
Post by: Retropunch on May 19, 2019, 12:44:53 pm
So, I'd grabbed 2 on sale, but not 1. Is Mortal Empires worth getting 1 for, even if I probably won't play 1 on its own?
I'd say it's definitely, definitely worth it if you have a fast SSD and moderately fast computer. The WH1 races were probably better overall (at least in terms of different play styles) and mortal empires is a ton of fun. A lot of the match ups between WH1 and WH2 races are really interesting - Dwarves vs Skaven for instance is a classic.
However, it absolutely requires an SSD as its 5+ minute turns even early on without.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 19, 2019, 12:53:56 pm
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 19, 2019, 01:02:14 pm
Also, re the mortal empires campaign - if you really, really love the vortex map, you might be disappointed by how trimmed it is in ME.
Post by: Retropunch on May 19, 2019, 01:08:13 pm
Hmm, well, my computer is reasonably fast but my games don't live on an SSD. So that's good to know. My C drive is SSD, but not that big. Maybe I'll see if I can make enough room on it.
An SSD is an absolute necessity for TW:Warhammer - even if you're just playing the vortex campaign you'll 100% need it on an SSD. I tried to play the first one (which is much less intensive) off an HDD and by the second half of the campaign I was looking at 10 minutes between turns and a good 5 minutes before each battle. Switched over to an SSD and about 30 seconds per turn and battles are nearly instant.
Edit for Il Palazzo: your laptop will probably have an SSD, a hybrid drive of some sort or a very fast 'smart' HDD; there aren't many laptops (certainly not ones around that can run TW2) which will have a 'traditional' HDD like you find in many desktop PCs.
Post by: Il Palazzo on May 19, 2019, 01:22:44 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 19, 2019, 01:45:20 pm
Post by: Retropunch on May 19, 2019, 02:40:21 pm
Thanks, I know what's in my old laptop, and it's a HDD. Is 5400 rpm "very fast" or "smart", though - that I don't know.
I'm not doubting you know whats in your laptop, but there's a big difference between an old SATA I 1.5gb/s 4800rpm hard drive and a SATA III 6gb/s 7200 HDD (it's unsurprisingly roughly three times faster). Similarly, many laptop drives are 'standard HDDs' but they have an SSD cache or are at least at the very top end of the SATA spectrum.
My warning was because many people have Desktops with older SATA HDDs (I did) whereas most modern (and even not so modern) laptops have much faster drives as standard.
Post by: Ludorum Rex on May 21, 2019, 03:49:45 am
However, cpu and graphical settings will affect turn time. Depending on the combination of cpu, gpu and settings, it is posssible to become bottlenecked on cpu or gpu, so there is no fixed answer as to what settings will give you the best result. But you can experiment to find what works best and still looks ok.
My anecdotal experience with Total War: Warhammer 2 is that cpu speed makes the biggest difference by far in turn speed.
Post by: Retropunch on May 23, 2019, 12:35:31 pm
Not a massive Black Library fan as most of it is absolute trash, but I'd recommend them unreservedly to anyone who even has a passing interest in any part of the warhammer franchise/TW:W etc.
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2019, 04:08:13 am
Post by: umiman on May 24, 2019, 07:44:44 pm
Did anyone here try for TW: Ancient China? I've downloaded it, but have yet to try it out because of free Sims 4...Been playing it extensively.
I really enjoy it. I'm a huge fan of the period and CA did an incredible job on it.
The diplomacy is top notch and I find myself getting really attracted and engrossed in each character due to how much personality they all have, especially for a total war game.
The combat is superb and the game runs buttery smooth. I'm on a 6 year old rig and I'm playing at high with extreme unit settings.
My only complaint is that after playing Warhammer 2 so much it feels weird going back to so few factions again. Turn times are so short haha. Also Southlands are so empty right now so Sun Jian is OP as fuck. He gets so much land so easily.
Playing on v. Hard difficulty as Cao Cao. He's hard as balls despite what the game says (v easy my ass). Bring sandwiched between so many crazed warmongers is challenging. Haven't noticed any blatant AI cheating yet which is nice. I'm sure it does, but no magic spawning free armies or anything like that.
(https://i.imgur.com/O295w5k.jpg)
I feel like surrendering right now. He got me good.
Post by: ArchAIngel on May 25, 2019, 11:21:43 am
Post by: FantasticDorf on May 25, 2019, 12:21:44 pm
The Doomsphere Plot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB5qHSlTENk)
To surmise, someone gamed the undercity mechanics really hard.
Post by: MCreeper on May 25, 2019, 12:39:15 pm
Post by: Tack on May 25, 2019, 03:24:20 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on May 25, 2019, 06:11:49 pm
Post by: EnigmaticHat on May 29, 2019, 09:49:37 pm
Post by: umiman on May 29, 2019, 11:20:00 pm
Am I the only one who doesn't mind that being in the game? Its not like the AI is going to do it.I don't think anyone minds.
Everyone likes Ikit, despite how OP he is. Just goes to show people will forgive a lot when you get gatling guns and nukes.
Post by: Mephansteras on May 30, 2019, 10:07:05 am
Post by: Retropunch on June 01, 2019, 06:21:22 pm
I know they have to balance things a bit because some people do play it multiplayer, but TW:W always feels like one of those series where it just doesn't need balancing because you can decide which faction you want to play (and there's a lot of choice). There's no harm in one faction being an 'easy' choice and one a harder one.
Post by: Persus13 on June 01, 2019, 08:51:22 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on June 26, 2019, 06:37:04 pm
I really want there to be an event called "THIS WAS A MISTAKE" and for it to spawn a stack of Black Orcs at your capitol
Post by: Mech#4 on July 18, 2019, 09:11:51 am
Link to forum topic. (https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/247419/whats-next-for-total-war-warhammer-ii/p1)
The listed items coming are a new legendary lord, an old world update and "some old friends".
I would guess the old world update might be either a rework of the Empire or Greenskins factions. I'm leaning towards the Greenskins and the legendary lord would probably be tied to this in some way.
Some old friends I don't know. The last 'old friend' was Krell but what this one could be I haven't a clue.
Post by: Persus13 on July 18, 2019, 09:56:03 am
Post by: LordPorkins on July 25, 2019, 02:27:13 pm
Now, if they REALLY put in the Old Friend we’ve been wanting, it would be Surtha Ek. That would be memetastic.
I also wouldn’t wholly discount them adding lords for game 1 factions, regardless of what they say. There’s already a ton of content that’s game 2 only, and I don’t think anyone would be mad really.
Post by: Grim Portent on July 25, 2019, 05:25:27 pm
Bound to be some character from the lore that could fill the role of 'Orc Warboss of Lustria.'
Post by: Teneb on July 25, 2019, 08:24:23 pm
I know it's not something they'll do, but I'd like to see some characters from Old World factions in the Vortex campaign. There are greenskins, vampires and beastmen and so on running around, they just aren't playable and I think it'd be neat to give them their own updates to incorporate them into the campaign without having to play Mortal Empires.There are, and one mod (We'z Spechul) even adds one savage orc boss and one forest goblin boss for the Vortex. You'd need an unlocker (I recommend Mixu's until Crynsos' is finally updated).
Bound to be some character from the lore that could fill the role of 'Orc Warboss of Lustria.'
I understand you're asking for an official character, but for now mods are what you'll have to use.
Post by: Grim Portent on July 26, 2019, 02:53:43 am
I know it's not something they'll do, but I'd like to see some characters from Old World factions in the Vortex campaign. There are greenskins, vampires and beastmen and so on running around, they just aren't playable and I think it'd be neat to give them their own updates to incorporate them into the campaign without having to play Mortal Empires.There are, and one mod (We'z Spechul) even adds one savage orc boss and one forest goblin boss for the Vortex. You'd need an unlocker (I recommend Mixu's until Crynsos' is finally updated).
Bound to be some character from the lore that could fill the role of 'Orc Warboss of Lustria.'
I understand you're asking for an official character, but for now mods are what you'll have to use.
Already using the mods. The lack of rites, campaign rituals and various other TW2 faction tweaks just makes the experience rather unsatisfying.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 28, 2019, 11:40:50 pm
From the hints people are pretty certain part of it will be focused on the Empire, most likely Markus Wulfhart. The rest of the mod is most likely focused on the Lizardmen but it is possible it could be a more general 'big monsters' pack.
Markus Wulfhart could come with Hunters for the Empire (skirmish archers). Other units might be knight orders. This content could also come with a general Empire rework.
Post by: Teneb on August 29, 2019, 05:52:43 am
Post by: Tack on August 29, 2019, 07:57:39 am
I don't know any of the empire characters but I hope he looks like an insane explorer.
Post by: Teneb on August 29, 2019, 11:34:33 am
Here's the Steam Page (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?q=https%3A%2F%2Fstore.steampowered.com%2Fapp%2F1074320%2F&redir_token=IqEmtXyzIHR5HohX1IryjsxoEHZ8MTU2NzE4MTA3NkAxNTY3MDk0Njc2&v=zbAi0pARn7w&event=video_description).
Here's the highlights of the pack:
Code: [Select]
-Available both for Mortal Empires and Vortex
-New Empire Faction: The Huntsmarshal's Expedition
--Can be played even if you don't own TWW1
--Starts in Lustria
--Has a special mechanic called "Emperor's Mandate"
---Expanding territory in Lustria increases your standing in the eyes of the Empire, and gets you more building options, better units, upgrades and how many units you can recruit.
---Capping the Mandate bar will trigger the campaign's final battle vs Nakai
--Has another special mechanic called "Hostility"
---It represents Lustria's reaction to Wulfhart and reaching the cap will cause lizard doomstacks to spawn.
--Wulfhart can recruit four special hunters by finding them in Lustria. They are a Master Engineer, a Bretonnian Paladin, a Witch Hunter, and a Wood Elf Waystalker.
--Also gives new units to the Empire:
---Wulfhart himself as a ranged legendary lord with armour-piercing damage, anti-large, vanguard, 360ş firing arc, stalk and immune to psychology. He also grants increased ambush defence and ambush chance, as well as reducing upkeep of Archers and Huntsmen in his army.
---Huntsman General, a lord option that serves as a generic version of Wulfhart himself.
---Archers, who are cheap ranged fodder for the empire.
---Deathjacks, a Regiment of Renown that takes archers and gives them stalk, snipe and vanguard.
---Huntsmen, an elite ranged option for the empire with vanguard, stalk, anti-large and can fire while moving.
---White Wolves, a huntsmen RoR that are good in melee, can encourage other units and are immune to psychology.
---War Wagon, a ranged chariot that can fire while moving in a full circle around it.
---War Wagon (Mortar), a more mobile version of the standard mortar but has less shots.
---The Black Lion, a war wagon RoR that has a Helblaster Volley Gun instead of a mortar or handgunners.
-New Lizardmen Faction: Spirit of the Jungle
--Is a Horde Faction
---Is different from the other ones in that only Nakai's horde can unlock unit recruitment. All other hordes of the faction must use global recruitment.
--"Defence of the Great Plan" mechanic
---Nakai starts with a vassal faction called Defenders of the Great Plan. Whenever you take a settlement, you can give it to the Defenders and dedicate it to an Old One to get bonuses.
--To win the campaign, Nakai needs to defeat a bunch of hunters in order to draw out Wulfhart.
--Unique Rites:
---Rite of Alleigance: Increases vassal income and horde replenishment
---Rite of Rebirth: Increases horde growth, reduces construction and recruitment costs, reduces upkeep.
---Rite of Mastery: Increases recruitment rank of Kroxigors, Kroxigor Ancients and Sacred Kroxigors. Also improves the stats of those units.
--New Units:
---Nakai himself as the LL, a giant kroxigor who can boost other kroxigors in his army. He also has activateable abilities to debuff enemies and buff allies.
---Ancient Kroxigors: An elite version of the default kroxigor unit.
---Feral Dread Saurian: The biggest unit in the game once they come out. It's a giant dinosaur, what else do you want?
---Dread Saurian (Howdah): Giant dinosaur with a howdah on its back. The skinks there throw poisoned javelins.
---Shredder of Lustrai: dread saurian (howdah) RoR that has encourage and a passive leadership-reducing aura.
---Sacred Kroxigors: Even stronger kroxigors with magical attacks.
---Cohort of Huatl: sacred kroxigor RoR with extra physical resistance and armour-piercing.
---Razordon Hunting Pack: Dinosaurs who fire volleys of spikes, good vs infantry.
---Amaxon Barbs: razordon RoR that deal poison damage and have ranged resistance.
As if that wasn't enough, we're also getting a FreeLC that is not the teased Old Friends. Detailed here in the FAQ (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-hunter-the-beast-faq/)
Because I got nothing better to do, here's the Highlights:
Code: [Select]
-Campaign Map Reworks:
--New province (Solland) and regions have been added to the Empire.
--There are now several mountain passes leading in and out of the Empire, a lof of them having an Imperial Fort that works like the High Elf Gates.
--New province and regions in Albion.
--New Greenskin and Wood Elf factions have been added to the Drakwald and Wasteland.
-New Start Position for the Empire:
--Balthasar Gelt now leads The Golden Order in Solland.
--Empire Offices are being canned and replaced with an Elector Counts system.
---New resources of Prestige and Imperial Authority that can be used to annex the provinces without going to war.
---There's Elector Count positions for defunct Counties like Sylvania and Wasteland.
-Empire faction will be renamed to Reikland (confirmed elsewhere)
-Gor-Rok is a lizardman FLC LL (also confirmed elsewhere)
Post by: Persus13 on August 29, 2019, 12:01:07 pm
I'm pretty impressed. Looks like everything people wanted, other than folks who wanted more Beastman stuff.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 29, 2019, 01:02:30 pm
The changes to, at least, the horde of Nakai sound nice. Nakai is the leader so he has recruitment buildings while other lords recruit from the global pool with buildings to lower the global recruitment timer instead of the usual recruitment buildings.
The other changes to the Empire sound neat as well. The addition of Solland (A province to the south of Nuln, capital was Pfeildorf from my reading) where Balthasar Gelt is being moved, forts guarding mountain passes and the whole Empire Elector Count system for gaining their fealty and gifting runefangs sounds much more interesting than the officer system.
Post by: Teneb on August 30, 2019, 10:38:35 am
Spoiler: Wulfhart in Vortex (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Wulfhart in Mortal Empires (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nakai in Vortex (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Nakai in Mortal Empires (click to show/hide)
I like how Nakai will have an Albion start in ME and how the map already pretty much reserves the space I think the game 3 map will take in the combined megacampaign.
EDIT: Nakai can't be confederated (https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1167447369895616513)
Post by: Mech#4 on August 30, 2019, 01:41:02 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on September 06, 2019, 05:54:44 am
Spoiler: Specific things from patch notes (click to show/hide)
Post by: Teneb on September 06, 2019, 10:42:57 am
Which Old Friends? Why, Gotrek and Felix of course.
They'll be available as a lord (Gotrex) + hero (Felix) that can be recruited from quest markers in the campaign map by a player using either Empire, Bretonnia or Dwarfs. Elves are out of luck. They only stick around for 20 turns before Gotrek gets antsy and then they'll be gone for a while before becoming available again.
Also Gotrek is voiced by Brian Blessed.
But: they'll be a timed White Dwarf exclusive. Those who can get a magazine will be able to grab them on the 20th of this month. Everyone else will have to wait until the 17th of October. Frankly, it ain't that long a wait unlike
Post by: Mech#4 on September 13, 2019, 12:11:03 am
I'm liking the new Empire and Elector Count mechanics so far. The political events are kind of the usual side with faction A or faction B, however, sometimes there's ones about sending aid to one of the Elector Counts to help combat an attack. To my suprise these are more than just an event box, rather, the game actually spawns an army of the enemy faction to attack the Empire province and if you support them in the attack you get to take part in the battle with a small number of troops (about 7).
So far I've had a siege defence with Hochland against Norsca where the handgunners I was given were instrumental with dealing with two feral mammoths and a land battle with Wissenland against some Greenskins.
War Wagons have been fun to use. They don't have that much speed but their high armour is nice along with their multiple repeating rifles.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 27, 2019, 10:41:04 am
"The Shadow and the Blade" feature Malus Darkblade of the Dark Elves and Deathmaster Snikch of Clan Eshin. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sPbjHEnSDE)
Spoiler: DLC Added Units, Lords and Heroes (click to show/hide)
Personally, it's quite neat to see Deathmaster Snikch (Also: He's got red claws!). I'm also suprised to see the Warpgrinder though it seems to be implemented in an interesting way, being able to destroy walls and gates as well as some AoE abilities.
I would have liked to see giant rats, though if we do get Throt the Unclean in the future they're still possible there.
The Medusa is neat as well. I don't know much of anything about Malus, having never read the books, so I don't really have an opinion there.
The mechanics Creative Assembly are talking about for Malus and Snikch sound quite interesting. With Malus struggling with the daemon and Clan Eshin getting contracts from other clans and 100% success chance "Shadowy Dealings" that pay with losing the agent for a few turns afterwards. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-shadow-the-blade-faq/)
Oh yes, also, the free Legendary Lord has been announced to be Rapanse de Lyonesse, a new legendary lord for Bretonnia. No further details about that yet other than the mention in the F.A.Q.
Post by: Teneb on November 27, 2019, 11:10:58 am
Oh yes, also, the free Legendary Lord has been announced to be Rapanse de Lyonesse, a new legendary lord for Bretonnia. No further details about that yet other than the mention in the F.A.Q.It's been confirmed on reddit by CA's community manager that she'll be playable in Vortex. So I imagine it'll be an Araby start.
I think that, named characters aside, the Dark Elf roster is now 100% complete.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 30, 2019, 02:56:36 am
Gameplay of Malus Darkblade. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaV9m6y3v_g)
We see some of the mechanics of Malus, how he has to stave off the daemonic possession or succumb to it for bonuses and negatives either way. Also how he works for Malekith in finding scrolls for the vortex campaign in exchange for elixers that help against the possession. Malus also gets quests given to him by the daemon which give nice bonues but also increase possession levels.
There's also apparently a change for the Black Arks where they can now attack coastal settlements which is nice, and new portraits for lords in the porthole image.
Apparently another quality of life change is that turn times have been reduced by about 60% in the Mortal Empires campaign which is really good to see.
Post by: Teneb on November 30, 2019, 12:02:52 pm
Now, if you're like me and run mods to take out that bullshit then you're fine... but they're blanacing it for vanilla and, well... it's got me a mite worried.
I like the Black Ark stuff though.
Post by: Tack on December 02, 2019, 08:11:47 am
There's also apparently a change for the Black Arks where they can now attack coastal settlements which is nice, and new portraits for lords in the porthole image.
YES
Post by: Mech#4 on December 02, 2019, 01:08:33 pm
We see that in the Vortex Campaign, Deathmaster Snikch starts in El-Kalabad in Araby (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2019/12/02143940/Vortex_map_ShadowBlade_Snikch.jpg) while Malus Darkblade starts near the Tower of the Sun on the islands in the south-east corner while also holding Hag Graef in Naggarond. (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2019/12/02144341/Vortex_map_ShadowBlade_Malus.jpg)
Also, most interestingly, in the Mortal Empires campaign, both Snikch and Malus start in a newly expanded part of the campaign map. The map has been expanded eastwards along the coast north of Lamia with Deathmaster Snikch starting in Flayed Rock and Malus starting in the Dragon Isles. (https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www2019/uploads/2019/12/02144026/MortalEmpires_map_ShadowBlade_Snikch.jpg)
The new area includes provinces Desolation of Nagash, Broken Teeth, The Wolf Lands, Gnoblar Country and the Dragon Isles. It looks like Crookback Mountain is added as well in the Wolf Lands.
This should do a lot to make the starts with Khalida and Kroq'gar more interesting.
I don't think there's any other changes to the map after a brief look over but this addition is pretty big.
Post by: Jopax on December 03, 2019, 10:47:40 am
The faction and lord stuff itself, eh, the DE units are cool but I've never cared much for them. As for the Skaven, while I love them as a faction, none of the units are particularly exciting, especially in terms of laughing madly as you decimate your enemy with horrible hell-contraptions, but that's just me I guess.
Post by: Persus13 on December 03, 2019, 11:43:00 am
Post by: Tack on December 05, 2019, 01:19:56 am
As for the Skaven, while I love them as a faction, none of the units are particularly exciting, especially in terms of laughing madly as you decimate your enemy with horrible hell-contraptions, but that's just me I guess.Unless the ratling gunners have gotten a nerf, I'd care to argue that point.
Also, yeah Warhammer 1 is dead software at this point. If we're very, very lucky maybe WH3 will have old and new world maps available to game owners
Post by: umiman on December 05, 2019, 01:39:48 am
I kinda think of it as a way to fund this ridiculously massive project that will culminate in game 3's gigantisaur map with infinity features. Don't think all these features and polish could have happened without them draining our wallets dry.As for the Skaven, while I love them as a faction, none of the units are particularly exciting, especially in terms of laughing madly as you decimate your enemy with horrible hell-contraptions, but that's just me I guess.Unless the ratling gunners have gotten a nerf, I'd care to argue that point.
Also, yeah Warhammer 1 is dead software at this point. If we're very, very lucky maybe WH3 will have old and new world maps available to game owners
That being said I never really feel shafted for the DLCs that I buy. CA's DLC policy for Total Warhammer 2 has been pretty good in my book. Each DLC has a huge chunk of features that continually improve the game. In Total Warhammer 1 they had some hits and misses, but looks like they've figured out what we like with the second game.
On the other hand, Three Kingdoms they went back to silly DLC nobody asked for.
Post by: Jopax on December 05, 2019, 01:51:00 am
As for the Skaven, while I love them as a faction, none of the units are particularly exciting, especially in terms of laughing madly as you decimate your enemy with horrible hell-contraptions, but that's just me I guess.Unless the ratling gunners have gotten a nerf, I'd care to argue that point.
Also, yeah Warhammer 1 is dead software at this point. If we're very, very lucky maybe WH3 will have old and new world maps available to game owners
I meant in terms of new units the upcoming DLC brings. Everything they have so far is pretty damn great in terms of dumb, overwhelming firepower that falls apart the moment something looks at it funny. New DLC brings in mortars I guess, but they're just longer range globadiers so eh.
Post by: Tack on December 05, 2019, 07:04:45 am
Post by: Mech#4 on December 05, 2019, 11:25:13 am
As for the Skaven, while I love them as a faction, none of the units are particularly exciting, especially in terms of laughing madly as you decimate your enemy with horrible hell-contraptions, but that's just me I guess.Unless the ratling gunners have gotten a nerf, I'd care to argue that point.
Also, yeah Warhammer 1 is dead software at this point. If we're very, very lucky maybe WH3 will have old and new world maps available to game owners
I meant in terms of new units the upcoming DLC brings. Everything they have so far is pretty damn great in terms of dumb, overwhelming firepower that falls apart the moment something looks at it funny. New DLC brings in mortars I guess, but they're just longer range globadiers so eh.
I believe the normal mortars have a damage over time effect that lingers in the area the globe lands. Quite different from how the Avalanche RoR unit works with shot which splits and deals damage on impact only, like the globadiers.
Also: The character sheet for Repanse de Lyonesse has been released. Highlighting several of her abilities like buffing infantry, giving units flaming attacks when facing undead and reducing building costs. (https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/gb/1g6xmd5x4sju.png)
She also starts in Copher I believe it's called in Araby in both the Vortex campaign and the Mortal Empires campaign. (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158181/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Repanse_de_Lyonesse/)
Post by: EnigmaticHat on December 05, 2019, 11:53:10 am
I'm a bit wary about the bonuses and maluses (heh) of going pure or possessed, especially given the bullshit bonuses the AI gets in combat (and the maluses (heh) that players get slapped with in the campaign) in high difficulties.Normal combat difficulty + harder campaign difficulty is how I manage that. Puts you up against harder odds but (AFAIK) all units behave according to their stats.
Now, if you're like me and run mods to take out that bullshit then you're fine... but they're blanacing it for vanilla and, well... it's got me a mite worried.
I like the Black Ark stuff though.
I don’t know the numbers but the changes on higher combat difficulties seem to disproportionately impact weaker units. While your elites feel at about the same power level as before. I don’t like it.
Post by: Teneb on December 05, 2019, 12:29:24 pm
How it works is that higher battle difficulties buff all units controlled by the ai. All player units stay the same. Campaign difficulty gives the AI huge PO bonuses, so much that unless you run a mod to strip that out, they're immune to the effects of corruption aside from attrition.I'm a bit wary about the bonuses and maluses (heh) of going pure or possessed, especially given the bullshit bonuses the AI gets in combat (and the maluses (heh) that players get slapped with in the campaign) in high difficulties.Normal combat difficulty + harder campaign difficulty is how I manage that. Puts you up against harder odds but (AFAIK) all units behave according to their stats.
Now, if you're like me and run mods to take out that bullshit then you're fine... but they're blanacing it for vanilla and, well... it's got me a mite worried.
I like the Black Ark stuff though.
I don’t know the numbers but the changes on higher combat difficulties seem to disproportionately impact weaker units. While your elites feel at about the same power level as before. I don’t like it.
Which is a shame, because higher difficulties, both battle and campaign, also improve the AI itself, making it smarter.
Also Repanse has a Steam Store page now (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1158181/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__Repanse_de_Lyonesse/).
She starts in Araby next to Arkhan in both campaigns, has a Legendary Hero in the form of a Grail Knight with a sword, buffs peasants and seems to be a melee specialist. She's also more effective against undead (RIP Arkhan) and has some sort of vague benefit to buying buildings in regions she owns.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 09, 2019, 12:53:15 pm
The major changes are:
- Renaming factions (So Empire is Reikland and Vampire Counts are Sylvania)
- New Legendary Lord portraits (Artwork instead of an image of the 3D model)
- Black Arks reworked (They can now attack coastal cities as well as other changes)
- End turn optimisations (Most noticable in the Mortal Empires campaign)
- Gotrek and Felix changes (Excempt from Supply Lines, duration to 30 turns, Gotrek distributes all XP he earns to other generals)
Some other notable things I'm seeing as I read through are:
- Skaven economy changed (Tier 1 and 2 Energy building removed and effects are now 30%,40%, 50%. Increase in income on all other buildings.)
- Bretonnian Heroes now gain immortality when achieving a Grail Vow
- The Cult of Sotek will now gain Sacrificial Offerings after battles, scaling with the enemy army’s strength. You may still gain 50 additional Sacrificial Offerings using the Mark for Sacrifice post-battle option
- Several changes to recruitment. Goblin spears and archers now on settlement. Dreadspears for Dark Elves now on settlement
- Dark Elves: Dreadspears moved to settlement chain, Bleakswords to Tier 1 Barracks, Dark Riders (Repeater Crossbow) to Tier 1 Stables, Black Ark Corsairs to Tier 1 port
- Dwarfs: Miners to settlement chain
- Lizardmen: Skink Cohort & Skink Cohort (Javelins) to settlement, removed Tier 1 Skink Barracks
- Norsca: Marauders to settlement
- Vampire Counts: Zombies & Skeleton Warrior to settlement, removed Tier 1 Cemetery
-Clan Pestilens : New faction effect: Chance of a plague spreading +50%
- All previously hidden unique items are now visible in the skill tree of the relevant character
- Hidden unique items now always trigger at a specified level instead of randomly generating
- Hidden unique items now trigger in both the Eye of the Vortex and Mortal Empires campaigns
The items now made available are:
The Shadow Crown (Alith Anar)
Amulet Of Dark Fire (Crone Hellebron)
Shieldstone of Isha (Alarielle the Radiant)
Red Blades (Lokhir)
Morgiana’s Mirror (The Fay Enchantress)
Armour of Brilliance (Louen Leoncour)
Braid of Bordeleaux (Alberic De Bordelaux)
Moon Staff of Lileath (Teclis)
Scroll of Hoeth (Teclis)
Wand of the Kharaidon (Morathi)
Armour of Midnight (Malekith)
Heart of Avelorn (Tyrion)
Amber Amulet (Morathi)`
The Mace of Ulumak (Gor-Rok)
- Empire, Bretonnia, Norsca and Beastmen now correctly have a cooldown to their confederations when played by the AI (this goes a long way towards tackling good factions being too powerful in campaign) (( This is something I had noticed, the empire confederating turn after turn with no break))
Post by: Jopax on December 12, 2019, 03:02:20 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 13, 2019, 01:35:13 am
Post by: Tack on December 14, 2019, 01:22:06 am
Post by: scriver on December 14, 2019, 04:32:43 am
Post by: Naryar on March 13, 2020, 09:50:59 am
Went through a Beastmen play of Mortal Empires after getting the DLC. Difficulty was Hard/Hard, changed to Hard/Normal afterwards. Because fuck your leadership bonuses.
Man... the campaign is just an exercise in masochism. You realize after a hundred turns or so that you only have two or three armies else your savings plummet, and the other nations have much better economy and terrain control, can send you doomstacks and annihilate your armies - and your armies are your towns as well, so when you inevitably lose one you suffer much more than one empire losing a town. Especially when you get surprised by a doomstack when you run away from OTHER doomstacks. And most of their units are quite experienced too !
Also razing the badlands and being a nomad only means the dwarves extended south into a huge blue blob of an empire, and it's partly my fault. The nomad playstyle I adopted also means you can't really take advantage of chaos corruption, or only for some time before you have to move and raze other cities. Unless you work together with Norsca or the Warriors of Chaos.
Though the roster IS fun and playable. It has it's own defined weaknesses like having almost no armor, very limited ranged choices, and leadership being pretty bad but you're fast and in-your-face. Minotaurs are my favorite unit and Cygors are hilarious. Almost all the infantry having vanguard deployment (and your cavalry too !) and hide in woods means some serious ambush and flanking potential. Your base archer unit, while weak, is both invisible and has vanguard deployment. Also being hidden when mustering is pretty great.
I also enjoy the freedom that comes with horde play. Though having to spend population on most stuff is quite annoying, and having one army defeated is really, REALLY bad. And since I have to doomstack too to counter my enemies, losing one army can mean losing *several*. It's too bad I don't feel I can compete against the big landed empires.
Any experience with Beastmen, or Beastmen Mortal Empires ?
Post by: Teneb on March 13, 2020, 12:56:05 pm
Also, very important: rush the blue skills that give population growth and lightning strike (though this also applies to Chaos and Nakai). You will likely need to manually fight most battles because the auto-resolve loves murdering your troops.
As for the units themselves, the beastmen are pretty good in battle. Like you said, their main issue is lack of armour which can be mitigated by cycle-charging and bumrushing the enemy. Dot not over-estimate minotaurs, though, they are good but not that good. I usually keep just one unit of minotaurs (great weapons or regiment of renown if possible) as a way to break formations thanks to their rolling attack. Also get a giant for much the same purposes.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 20, 2020, 07:02:27 am
High Elves are interesting. Normally don't play good guys, which makes their diplomatic situation a new one for me, sitting in the middle of this web of treaties and varying degrees of friendliness trying to figure out how to get everything under me without blowing it up. I got pretty lucky, Alarielle randomly decided to attack Saphery on like turn 15, headbutting said web and turning every faction against her. I grabbed a couple of her cities and Saphery just finished her off, so my biggest problem is off the table. Dealing with Caledor now and starting to confederate the rest of Ulthuan. Sartosa hasn't been strong enough to make any headway against us, but Scourge of Khaine is becoming a problem and there's a good-sized Norsca foothold which is becoming a problem for public order. But Caledor will be down soon and then I can deal with that and I'll be Big Boss of Ulthuan and can start dealing with other shit.
Post by: Persus13 on April 20, 2020, 09:11:42 am
Post by: Teneb on April 20, 2020, 12:58:32 pm
Been playing High Elves on E/N. Normally wouldn't play a game on easy but I've literally never won a total war campaign, mostly just due to longevity. Did pretty well as Settra on N/N but I didn't deal with Tic-Tac-Toe early enough and he became a monster, started sending literal waves of dinosaur-heavy armies at me and I didn't have my necrosphinxes online or sufficient ushabti bows to deal with all of them. I could take out one dinosaur doomstack but it'd exhaust my resources and I'd have to scramble to rebuild before the next one hit.If you're playing as Tyrion (or Alarielle) then you want to take out Scourge of Khaine ASAP. Gotta watch out for Chrace sniping the Shrine of Khaine though. Beating up the Scourge will also make everyone love you.
High Elves are interesting. Normally don't play good guys, which makes their diplomatic situation a new one for me, sitting in the middle of this web of treaties and varying degrees of friendliness trying to figure out how to get everything under me without blowing it up. I got pretty lucky, Alarielle randomly decided to attack Saphery on like turn 15, headbutting said web and turning every faction against her. I grabbed a couple of her cities and Saphery just finished her off, so my biggest problem is off the table. Dealing with Caledor now and starting to confederate the rest of Ulthuan. Sartosa hasn't been strong enough to make any headway against us, but Scourge of Khaine is becoming a problem and there's a good-sized Norsca foothold which is becoming a problem for public order. But Caledor will be down soon and then I can deal with that and I'll be Big Boss of Ulthuan and can start dealing with other shit.
Aside from that, unite Ulthuan and go to town on Naggarond (or if you are in Vortex just unite Ulthuan, maybe squash Sartosa and Dreadfleet so they don't bug ya, and do the rituals).
Post by: nenjin on April 20, 2020, 01:45:53 pm
It's basically as you describe. You're hamstrung for a large part of the early game by only being able to have two to three herds. Four was possible after like 150 turns and working my way up from the Badlands.
My biggest complaint was that the Orks simply would not fuck off. I could be practically in to Sylania and here comes two to three Ork doomstacks hell bent on destroying just me. All the other AIs would completely ignore them as they passed right through their territories to get me.
Using Beast Paths I was often able to evade for a little while, at least long enough so I could separate out my pursuers and get a nice 3v1 battle.
But in the end it felt pointless. In the time it'd take me to eliminate one doomstack, the Orks would spin up two to three more. Even after obliterating their northern most cities in the Badlands, they'd keep cranking out more units.
Other than that, Dwarves were my biggest hassle. They wouldn't aggressively chase me across the whole old world like the Orks, but taking them apart was an exercise in frustration sometimes. My eventual goal was the wipe out the dwarves and call it a win, which I basically did it. Got them down to one city, razed their most notable holds, slew most of their unique characters.
Despite all that.....I really enjoyed the Nomad gameplay too. Not being stuck to any one region, fucking with whoever I chose to whenever I chose to. And I dunno, there was something just really satisfying about how the Beastman experience played out along with their herd design, it was very thematic. Just kinda wish I got more space to breathe, but as soon as I'd start messing with anyone, I'd get sandwiched between them and the Orks and would have to flee or use creative map movement to keep my herds from getting surrounded and crushed.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 20, 2020, 08:18:18 pm
Post by: Jopax on April 24, 2020, 04:36:54 am
Edit:
And don't even get me started on fucking Kholis who spawns right on top of you with an army of highly mobile, armor-piercing missile units that just so happen to be perfect counter to your slow, highly armored melee focused army, and the game even tells you to go and fight these dudes ffs.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 24, 2020, 07:34:58 am
Post by: Teneb on April 24, 2020, 10:27:38 am
With the recent sale of all things TW:WH I grabbed the Hunter DLC since I've enjoyed both Empire and Lizards a decent amount before, plus getting all them new units to use is always nice. So I jump in to try out Nakai and holy shit what is this. Low movement range horde army, horrendous economy because you need to grab settlements to have any income, surrounded by enemies with like two-three friendly factions that don't have a murderboner for you, the bloody defenders are more of a hindrance than anything since they keep getting aggroed by everyone that finds them, which in turn drags you into a war with nearly everyone, all of that coupled with freaking Wulfhart and co running around with several endgame armies right off the bat that you need to dance around if you don't want to get deleted. And the game wants you to have multiple armies to cover all of this shit? How are you supposed to afford that, I was barely running one stack of saurus, krox and a few of the stegadons, it was fairly ok at murdering shit out in the open but sieges are fucking tough since your siege and missle options are very limited and not exactly cheap.While there is a mod that allows the Defenders to recruit armies (they can't conquer anything, though), it still doesn't stop the problem I had playing Nakai in Mortal Empires: Everyone and their parrot will attack the defenders, even if they like you.
Edit:
And don't even get me started on fucking Kholis who spawns right on top of you with an army of highly mobile, armor-piercing missile units that just so happen to be perfect counter to your slow, highly armored melee focused army, and the game even tells you to go and fight these dudes ffs.
Post by: nenjin on April 24, 2020, 10:29:33 am
Post by: scriver on April 24, 2020, 11:09:45 am
Post by: Cthulhu on April 25, 2020, 06:38:15 pm
Post by: Teneb on April 25, 2020, 08:15:56 pm
Regarding beastmen, I'm trying out this guide (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXiGZgHMj8U&list=PLY8cZUL4pfEBQtIyY5cH2nTgTvIlBIGaI&index=6) which is made for legendary to see if I can get off on the right foot. It's a little exploitative at the start, but based around abusing Estelia and your ambush mechanics to power level the first 15-20 turns so you're in a strong position to actually play the game past that. In the video he gets level 14 on Khazrak on turn 15. I don't usually like cheesing like that, but considering how hard it is to get started as beastmen I think I'm cool with it. May also try it with chaos too, though that'll be harder with their stances.Frankly, I think for Beastmen it is imperative you deal with Estalia just for long enough to get Gors. Then you should go beat up Bretonnia. A Bretonnia who does not get threatened by some enemy early will confederate and kick off the Ordertide.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 25, 2020, 11:07:58 pm
Post by: Jopax on April 26, 2020, 08:17:52 am
Also managed to cheese Khosis, baited him into a fight on top of a friendly settlement and used the garrison as a meatshield to soak up the damage and wear out the fairly fragile WE troops before my kroxigors got stuck in and stomped.
Post by: ArchAIngel on April 26, 2020, 01:26:41 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on April 27, 2020, 09:47:06 am
I'm at the Attila the Hun stage, I'm crazy strong with three minotaur units and a giant, just plowing straight into walled cities without bothering to build siege equipment. Penumbral pendulum, pit of shades, and sword of khaine together means whatever's on the other side of the gate is already in the dumpster by the time it goes down, and then we just roll in and trash everything. Wandering around wherever I please leaving a trail of destruction.
Post by: Jopax on April 28, 2020, 12:59:46 pm
You can use Diplomacy to demand cash from the Defenders, and they cannot split from you, so bullying them for wonga is completely valid and basically required.
I'd completely forgotten that was a thing you could do, that's how much I cared for the utterly basic diplomacy, random cash infusions help greatly.
Anyways, decided to give the other side a try and holy hell this is so much better. There's so much more depth and choice involved in managing the whole threat/prestige thing, figuring out which elector count could give you what, the whole hunter business that feels like 4 mini campaigns inside the main one. And the difficulty is so much nicer, you're not overwhelmed by bullshit right out the gate and your tech and army progress is tied to how well you do in the field and any threats that do arise come entirely from your mismanagement of the hostility (as I learned the hard way and had to race back home to not lose my capital to the stack spawned by the level 5 hostility event.
Also I think I enjoy the Empire gameplay way more than the lizard one, mostly because it's a bit more varied and you gotta manage both range and melee stuff (and not forget about your great cannons so the fucking idiots walk straight into enemy bomber range while chasing a random unit off the walls).
One thing I'll say tho, fuck Vampire Coast AI and its tendency to shit out stacks with dozens of bombers, those things are not fun to deal with, especially when you don't have proper ranged or magic counters that can kill them before they get into instant-frontline-deletion range
Post by: Cthulhu on April 28, 2020, 10:07:25 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 28, 2020, 10:36:21 pm
Post by: Cthulhu on April 28, 2020, 11:34:07 pm
Post by: Jopax on April 29, 2020, 06:25:08 am
Post by: scriver on April 29, 2020, 07:04:25 am
Post by: Cthulhu on April 29, 2020, 07:48:28 am
Post by: Persus13 on April 29, 2020, 08:26:19 am
Post by: Teneb on April 29, 2020, 02:07:32 pm
They mentioned it somewhere I think. Base factions are the four chaos daemons, and they claimed it'd fill out the rest of the original WHFB roster, so ogres and chaos dwarfs as DLC, and possibly a couple of the human nations like Kislev. And it implied there'd be a third map. Hoping it's a realms of chaos map, with the daemons getting some mechanic to invade the world and establish a foothold which would be really fun.There is no confirmed race so far other than at least one being some form of Chaos. It is heavily implied that the map will be the Dark Lands to the east of the Old World (we even got its southern part with the Ninja vs Edgelf DLC).
3 is coming at some point, but from what I've seen I think we're getting another DLC for 2 first.CA confirmed that there is one DLC coming for sure, and maybe one more after that. They'll both be Lord packs.
So far I'm not a huge fan. He certainly tears shit up but he's slow as hell and he's so big and tall that every archer in the area can get a bead on him. The AI isn't smart enough to do it but giants are pretty easy to pick off with minimal damage, especially if you've got a light mage. My favorite biggun unit is probably the warsphinx, which basically works like a giant chariot, bouncing around between units to tank their morale and do huge charge damage. The starting one for Settra is basically unkillable in the early game.Giants are hard to use, so a lot of people think they are utter trash. The thing about giants is that they are not a front-line unit. You want to hold him back until you got at least one unit chasing off enemy range, then drive him in from the flank into an infantry blob. Giants straight-up delete infantry. So, in short: keep giant away from archers, and use as a flanking unit vs melee infantry.
Post by: LordPorkins on April 29, 2020, 09:36:33 pm
They mentioned it somewhere I think. Base factions are the four chaos daemons, and they claimed it'd fill out the rest of the original WHFB roster, so ogres and chaos dwarfs as DLC, and possibly a couple of the human nations like Kislev. And it implied there'd be a third map. Hoping it's a realms of chaos map, with the daemons getting some mechanic to invade the world and establish a foothold which would be really fun.I don't think that they ever confirmed that the base four were going to be Demons. And I doubt Ogres are DLC, since with The Shadow and THe Blade DLC we've got a chunk of land just under the Ogre Area that's kinda messing up the otherwise squarish map of the Old World.
Daemons are definitely going to be a faction. But I doubt that its going to be JUST daemons.
Also: Everyones talking about how the next DLC will be High Elves vs Greenskins, which I agree with. My One Question: What exactly is there to add to the Greenskin Army? Snotling Wagons, and maybe add the two different types of trolls. That's really all I can think of.
Post by: Cthulhu on April 29, 2020, 10:28:52 pm
Post by: Jopax on April 30, 2020, 03:01:42 am
Edit:
Continuing my Wulfhart campaign, gotta say the defenders have proven more useful here than in the Nakai playthrough. You see, the big idiot got himself taken out relatively early but left behind several settlements which have survived surprisingly long for some reason. Said settlements were at war with me when he got killed but since I never pushed too far south (until recently, mostly due to quests) I never really interacted with them. Eventually they sued for peace and offered a generous sum of cash to go with it, I happily accepted because why not, didn't plan on taking them out anytime soon anyways. Several turns later they declare war on me again, then, several turns after that offer peace and a sum of gold once more. This has happened 4-5 times so far with no signs of stopping until someone kills them, which I kinda hope nobody does because the free cash is always nice.
Post by: LordPorkins on April 30, 2020, 12:30:37 pm
I also severely Doubt the Realm of Chaos because that would mean that either A. Daemons literally cant lose since no-one can go in there besides them and maybe Chaos warriors, or B. Other factions can invade the Realm of Chaos. Which would be super dumb from a lore perspective.
Post by: Teneb on May 01, 2020, 06:13:50 pm
Despite being extremely low on food, I've managed to wipe out Estalia, Carcassone and the Shadewraith (mod vampirate faction). Currently at war with both Orion and Tilea, but neither have actually moved against me. It's being an enjoyable campaign thus far. I was about to move on Tilea when I stopped, just before noticing Noctilus wanting to snipe one of my Estalian cities. I guess I'll see how that goes for him.
Post by: Dostoevsky on May 01, 2020, 09:48:56 pm
Since I finally managed to get a stable mod collection going, I decided to finally commit to a campaign, and picked Ickit Claw on Mortal Empires.
Despite being extremely low on food, I've managed to wipe out Estalia, Carcassone and the Shadewraith (mod vampirate faction). Currently at war with both Orion and Tilea, but neither have actually moved against me. It's being an enjoyable campaign thus far. I was about to move on Tilea when I stopped, just before noticing Noctilus wanting to snipe one of my Estalian cities. I guess I'll see how that goes for him.
Tips on a stable mod collection? I tried to come back to this after a hiatus, and after a couple of hours never reached a stable form of my previous collection.
Post by: Teneb on May 02, 2020, 11:17:18 am
I'll compile what I call my "Vanilla+" setup into a steam workshop collection and edit the link into this post (if there are no replies, otherwise I'll just make a new post)Since I finally managed to get a stable mod collection going, I decided to finally commit to a campaign, and picked Ickit Claw on Mortal Empires.
Despite being extremely low on food, I've managed to wipe out Estalia, Carcassone and the Shadewraith (mod vampirate faction). Currently at war with both Orion and Tilea, but neither have actually moved against me. It's being an enjoyable campaign thus far. I was about to move on Tilea when I stopped, just before noticing Noctilus wanting to snipe one of my Estalian cities. I guess I'll see how that goes for him.
Tips on a stable mod collection? I tried to come back to this after a hiatus, and after a couple of hours never reached a stable form of my previous collection.
EDIT: This is very important: Use Kaedrin's Mod Manager (https://github.com/Kaedrin/warhammer-mod-manager/releases/tag/v1.8.10) to enable the mods and launch the game. The CA launcher has... issues with mods.
Here it is! (https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2082017166) You may want to check each out to see if actually want them or not, of course. While there are a few items in the collection that are technically outdated, they do work (because they are just texture/model packs used by another mod).
EDIT 2: I tend to add new mods to my loadout on occasion, so I'll be adding to this collection when I'm sure that they are actually stable.
Post by: LordPorkins on May 02, 2020, 02:24:40 pm
You tend to just play around the idea that you wont ever have any food, and you build Public Order buildings, take the penalty to leadership and just keep going.
You only really get a ton of food mid-game, and by then you don't really care. Only real exception I've seen is Eshin. They can pump out food pretty well.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2020, 02:28:56 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 07, 2020, 09:39:08 am
Store page for The Warden & The Paunch (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1209120/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__The_Warden__The_Paunch/)
Because I'm a very nice guy, here's the transcript from the page:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Persus13 on May 07, 2020, 10:34:14 am
Post by: Teneb on May 07, 2020, 11:17:35 am
I see Mad Max is the latest to get the TW:WH2 homage trailer treatmentThe very start is also a reference to The Dark Knight's interrogation scene.
Post by: Jopax on May 07, 2020, 11:49:49 am
Post by: Teneb on May 07, 2020, 08:41:44 pm
So obviously I'm starting a new campaign immediately, as Arkhan.
Post by: LordPorkins on May 08, 2020, 10:35:04 am
Why is Groms mechanic him eating? His whole story is that he has a chunk of troll flesh inside him that’s constantly regenerating. If anything he shouldn’t need to eat because he’s literally always full.
Other than that looks kickass. Only real request is that they replace Gold with Teeth.
Also: How about that rogue idol. Those things look massive. Taller than fortress walls. Heck, the description says they can destroy walls. You think Greenskins might have a way to just stomp sieges by ignoring them?
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on May 08, 2020, 10:44:25 am
Hey, I’m all for the new DLC, but I gots one problem with itHe digested it. Otherwise he would've died like the rest. The thing was the "Battle of the belly" was that he basically grew fat, big, and gained the restorative abilities by being able to survive eating a hunk of raw troll meat. He's hungrier then normal because a goblin of that size needs it and the troll hunger passed on to him.
Why is Groms mechanic him eating? His whole story is that he has a chunk of troll flesh inside him that’s constantly regenerating. If anything he shouldn’t need to eat because he’s literally always full.
Other than that looks kickass. Only real request is that they replace Gold with Teeth.
Which is pretty impressive for a goblin, since the Ogre Butchers (The Ogres magical casters) can use raw troll meat to grant regeneration to others in almost the same way.
Post by: Teneb on May 08, 2020, 11:56:29 am
I think he might even be bigger than your average orc boy. But yeah, Grom is kind of a unique fellow.Hey, I’m all for the new DLC, but I gots one problem with itHe digested it. Otherwise he would've died like the rest. The thing was the "Battle of the belly" was that he basically grew fat, big, and gained the restorative abilities by being able to survive eating a hunk of raw troll meat. He's hungrier then normal because a goblin of that size needs it and the troll hunger passed on to him.
Why is Groms mechanic him eating? His whole story is that he has a chunk of troll flesh inside him that’s constantly regenerating. If anything he shouldn’t need to eat because he’s literally always full.
Other than that looks kickass. Only real request is that they replace Gold with Teeth.
Which is pretty impressive for a goblin, since the Ogre Butchers (The Ogres magical casters) can use raw troll meat to grant regeneration to others in almost the same way.
I eagerly await game 3 so we can have Greasus vs Grom in the true Battle of the Belly.
Post by: LordPorkins on May 08, 2020, 12:55:20 pm
Cue outrage
Post by: scriver on May 08, 2020, 01:02:04 pm
Post by: sambojin on May 08, 2020, 09:01:09 pm
I'm wondering if flappers will allow you to jump units? Could be terrifying if your front line becomes a bit redundant with the snots just launching over it into your missile troops behind.
They were always one of the funnest bits of my O&G army on tabletop, and we're one of the things that no-one minded a scratch built model of, so they were free carnage for not many points. 360° movement in the compulsory movement phase was a glorious breakage of rules, so hopefully flappers provide something similar on the PC.
Orcs could use some more flyers anyway, even if these are just pseudo-activated-ability ones slapped onto a light chariot framework.
Post by: scriver on May 09, 2020, 07:44:34 am
and we're one of the things that no-one minded a scratch built model of
Is a scratch built model a model built from scratch? I mean, that would be obvious. So what I'm really asking is how do scratch built models look/work? I thought the idea of Warhammer as to sell models so I'm surprised Games Workshop (if I'm remembering the name of the company right) would allow that.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on May 09, 2020, 08:45:14 am
Are snotlings a type of "greenskin" (or whatever you call goblins and orks with a gatherword), by the way? Or are they an unrelated animal creature like wolves or giant spiders?
They are a type of greenskin, weaker than a goblin and dumber than an orc. It should be pretty obvious why they have not appeared in the game until now given how useless they are.
Post by: Jopax on May 09, 2020, 09:16:03 am
As someone who never cared much for them, gotta say, I really like some of the stuff they're introducing. The scrap thing is pretty cool ranging to awesome depending on the amount and kind of upgrades you could get, but I'm all down for being able to customize and tailor an army more to your liking. The Waagh itself I'm undecided on, in theory it's rather cool but I'm not sure if the trophy system is a bit clunky or not. You want to call waaghs as often as possible to get the bonus armies but at the same time you'll be risking getting shittier trophies depending on who you fight and possibly on RNG (not sure if the stuff is based on the target or chosen randomly every time).
All in all, really looking forward to this one.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 09, 2020, 01:37:13 pm
Are snotlings a type of "greenskin" (or whatever you call goblins and orks with a gatherword), by the way? Or are they an unrelated animal creature like wolves or giant spiders?and we're one of the things that no-one minded a scratch built model of
Is a scratch built model a model built from scratch? I mean, that would be obvious. So what I'm really asking is how do scratch built models look/work? I thought the idea of Warhammer as to sell models so I'm surprised Games Workshop (if I'm remembering the name of the company right) would allow that.
Snotlings are tiny greenskins, the smallest of all of them, who are so stupid they can't even speak, even to each other, and have the enthusiasm of a hyperactive puppy. The orcs keep them as pets, goblins find them annoying as hell, both also eat them.
When the orcs are getting fired up for a WAAAGH!!! the snotlings start instinctively building pump wagons out of random bits of wood and metal, then power the things with various cranks and levers to barrel into people.
Scratch built models are built from mostly spare model parts, sometimes out of random things like tin cans and popsicle sticks, modeling putty, or a mix of all three. GW used to encourage it for units they didn't have models for or which were supposed to be wacky and unique, mostly Orcs and Orkz vehicles, but also Skaven, Chaos, Halflings and so on. It became less and less encouraged over the years, now the general guideline for official GW stuff is that to use it in their stores any model needs to be 50%+ GW products if I recall correctly.
I might still have a daemon prince I made out of three spare daemon prince parts, wire mesh and green stuff (resin modeling putty) lying about somewhere.
Spoiler: Model terminology stuff (click to show/hide)
Post by: scriver on May 09, 2020, 03:09:31 pm
Thanks for the answer about the models though
Post by: Persus13 on May 09, 2020, 03:25:49 pm
Post by: Teneb on May 09, 2020, 03:31:22 pm
If you've played Dawn of War 1, snotlings the builder unit for that. They're also the tiny orcs you shoot at in 40k or Warhammer Fantasy games.Nah, grots are just space goblins.
Post by: Grim Portent on May 09, 2020, 03:48:37 pm
Oh I see, I was mistaking snotlings for those things goblins sometimes ride.
Thanks for the answer about the models though
Those would be Squigs, or 'Squiggly Beasts.' They're a collection of various related animals, though the most common is basically a mouth on legs. Orcs and goblins use them as war beasts, and some night goblins are drug addled enough to try and ride them into battle. Most such goblins are eaten in short order, but a few survive long enough to actually get to the fight, and if someone manages to survive the battle without being bucked off and eaten they get a lot of respect from the other goblins.
Other squigs include hairy squigs, used by orcs as living wigs, giant cave squigs which can grow to prodigious size, a breed for eating which I think was just called tasty squigs, and the mighty Squiggoth, which is a four legged dinosaur sized monstrosity.
Night goblins, who mostly live underground and take lots of drugs, are the foremost users of squigs in battle in WHF, being the inventors of the Mangler Squig, two giant cave squigs chained together, poked with pointy things until they're really mad and then sent whipping each other about in the general direction of the enemy with an awkward random movement, because squigs move by hopping and having two tied together results in a very bumpy trip for both of them.
Post by: scriver on May 10, 2020, 01:28:01 am
Post by: Jopax on May 10, 2020, 03:54:58 am
Post by: Grim Portent on May 10, 2020, 07:41:15 am
The Empire for example has an Elector Count character who's chief advisor is his horse, and the Vampires have Konrad von Carstein who had a rule in the tabletop called 'A few bats short of a belfry' because of his detachment from reality and tendency to forget what he's doing.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 10, 2020, 10:26:08 am
The Empire for example has an Elector Count character who's chief advisor is his horseLook I think we've all played CK2 or at least know about Glitterhoof okay don't try to make this sound weird /s
Post by: LordPorkins on May 12, 2020, 01:31:46 pm
Gotta say, I’m a bit disappointed that the Flappas don’t have an ability that lets them fly for like 3 seconds. They’re just faster and they have Strider.
Post by: Teneb on May 12, 2020, 02:50:00 pm
Youtuber embargo has been lifted. All new units public as well as a few battlesI suspect that there might be an engine reason for this, given how Malagor and Kemmler are land-bound.
Gotta day, I’m a bit disappointed that the Flappas don’t have an ability that lets them fly for like 3 seconds. They’re just faster and they have Strider.
I think flappas either deal more damage or have better melee attack than regular pump wagons, which means that basic wagons are worth it only in terms of price, given how flappas and rollas will be just better.
Loved the Rogue Idol's animations in the videos I saw though (and holy crap it has crazy low melee def to compensate for its titanic stats in everything else except speed).
Post by: Grim Portent on May 12, 2020, 05:12:15 pm
Beastmen really could do with Preytons or Jabberslythes. :(
Post by: umiman on May 12, 2020, 05:41:07 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on May 12, 2020, 10:34:44 pm
I still can't believe Grom is a goblin. At first I had no clue what the big deal about him being big was. Just another large orc. Then I found out he's a goblin. Wtf.Yup. That’s his shtick. He’s just one Bog Boi Gobbo. His Imensity, His Enormity, THE IMMORTAN GROM!
Post by: Teneb on May 13, 2020, 10:57:24 am
Post by: scriver on May 13, 2020, 11:00:14 am
Post by: Teneb on May 13, 2020, 12:03:28 pm
How OP? The unit with that banner cannot lose models while leadership is over 50%. Now imagine that on the Krimson Killaz
Post by: umiman on May 14, 2020, 03:48:57 pm
Apparently streamers have found out that Grimgor's Immortulz banner is now incredibly OP.WHAT ZE FUK. Holy shit. Well... I guess it's actually really good now.
How OP? The unit with that banner cannot lose models while leadership is over 50%. Now imagine that on the Krimson Killaz
Post by: Teneb on May 14, 2020, 04:10:22 pm
Yeah. Pairing that with how much Grimgor got buffed (I forget the specifics, but I know his mass is now big enough you need the super big kids like Kholek and Durthu to actually knock him over), the Greenskin Rework (which includes Norsca-style confederation) and the reworked Badlands and dwarf starts (pretty much all the minor dwarfs that had multiple settlements were reduced to having just one) will make Black Crag an amazing start. Truly the one and future git.Apparently streamers have found out that Grimgor's Immortulz banner is now incredibly OP.WHAT ZE FUK. Holy shit. Well... I guess it's actually really good now.
How OP? The unit with that banner cannot lose models while leadership is over 50%. Now imagine that on the Krimson Killaz
Post by: Cthulhu on May 14, 2020, 04:13:01 pm
Post by: scriver on May 24, 2020, 08:20:38 am
I just wanted to share that the name of my first WAAAAAAGH army spawned general is called Hack Bootlicka. And that is beautiful.
edit:
Spoiler: Also, they know just how to play to my heart's desires (click to show/hide)
Post by: Tack on May 24, 2020, 11:53:43 am
Now hold on, they can still lose HP, so you'd likely end up with a unit of 1HP krimzon Killaz who are just waiting for the Ld tipping point before they up and suddenly die.Yeah. Pairing that with how much Grimgor got buffed (I forget the specifics, but I know his mass is now big enough you need the super big kids like Kholek and Durthu to actually knock him over), the Greenskin Rework (which includes Norsca-style confederation) and the reworked Badlands and dwarf starts (pretty much all the minor dwarfs that had multiple settlements were reduced to having just one) will make Black Crag an amazing start. Truly the one and future git.Apparently streamers have found out that Grimgor's Immortulz banner is now incredibly OP.WHAT ZE FUK. Holy shit. Well... I guess it's actually really good now.
How OP? The unit with that banner cannot lose models while leadership is over 50%. Now imagine that on the Krimson Killaz
Post by: scriver on May 30, 2020, 01:54:35 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on June 13, 2020, 10:37:51 pm
I want my impossible-to-kill boys from the tabletop back up dammit.
Post by: LordPorkins on June 25, 2020, 02:05:55 pm
The Marauder Chieftans skill tree has been completely Janked for some reason since the Warden and the Paunch Update,
-All mount options except basic Horse are gone
-Unique God Dedication skills are gone, which is HUGE! One of my favorite things about Norsca was that you could get like +50% Casualty regen, perfect for far-off rampages.
And, weirdest of all (And what cements my hunch that this is a bug)
-One of the blue skills is for Horde Growth. You know. For Hordes. That thing that Norsca doesn’t have.
And strangely, it’s STILL like this, and I’ve only found 2 forum threads about it. CA haven’t even addressed it saying they’re working on it. It’s a shame because I think Norsca is one of the best campaigns without being overly complicated. Anyone got any idea what’s going on?
Post by: Persus13 on November 19, 2020, 11:04:43 am
The DLC introduces Throt the Unclean of Clan Moulder vs. the Sisters of Twilight, plus the usual new units like Brood Horrors, Zoats, Stag Knights, and two new Legendary Heroes, Goritch and Ariel.
Youtube Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdu8PEeNxy0)
Announcement/FAQ (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-twisted-the-twilight-faq/)
Steam Page (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1315750/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__The_Twisted__The_Twilight/)
There's also some FreeLC stuff coming in the form of a Skaven Chieftan Hero (and a Glade Captain for Wood Elves) and a new Wood Elf LL called Drycha, and Wood Elves will get a rework that mostly removes the Amber mechanic, gives them the ability to teleport between forest regions, and gives them a new mechanic based around healing forests.
Post by: Mephansteras on November 19, 2020, 11:24:29 am
Post by: scriver on November 19, 2020, 11:57:03 am
Post by: nenjin on November 19, 2020, 02:42:39 pm
Khazrak weeps. (I love this dude's TW2 shit posts. The Beastmen ones are especially poignant.)
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 19, 2020, 03:06:40 pm
(Although owning neither the wood elf or beastmen DLC, I don't have much stake in this. This one will be an easy pass or wait for sale for me, think.)
The wood elf rework does make me more interested in picking up the wood elf DLC next time it's on sale, at least.
Post by: nenjin on November 19, 2020, 03:52:00 pm
Even in SP it's a rough start. In MP you'll get roflstomped by pretty much any other faction who can spin up faster.
About the only thing it has going for it is Khazark can essentially get "Freestigor" units because he gets massive upkeep and recruitment cost reductions to Beastigors. But that still requires a T5 building, and the upkeep reduction building to be in place.
I just played a campaign with a friend who was running Chaos, and he was literally at max efficiency (doomstacks of Chosen) by turn 50 while I was barely able to field one competent army. The weakness of initial Beastmen units is the first hurdle they have to overcome as a faction, and it comes with just shit loads of unnecessary costs and complications. (Beast moons basically demand that you take a big penalty for a so-so bonus you don't want or need at the time, and it's non-negotiable. +20 growth for no replenishment for example, or instant replenishment for -20 growth.)
If you're not competing with anyone in coop or vs. and want an extra-hardmode hobo start, then play Beastmen. But you'll feel outclassed by every other faction for dozens and dozens and dozens of turns playing them until you get over all the hurdles they put in the way of the faction.
Ironically they were the first faction I played in TW2, because I love Beastmen. So I had no idea how bad they were until I came back a year later and tried out, like, Skaven, who literally shit out money everywhere and their T2 units (Eshin) can carry them almost all the way through the end game.
Post by: Persus13 on November 19, 2020, 03:59:19 pm
Its funny how different things are now as I remember a few years ago people declaring that CA hated Skaven and hadn't given them enough content.
Post by: nenjin on November 19, 2020, 04:43:07 pm
Quote
Its funny how different things are now as I remember a few years ago people declaring that CA hated Skaven and hadn't given them enough content.
Eshin is kinda disgustingly good. Cheap fire-while moving skirmishers with armor piercing rounds AND the decent melee combatant trait. I didn't believe my friend when he said armies of night runners and gutter runners can flatten almost anything, but damn me if he wasn't right. About their only nemesis is war machines. I suppose they are a little pricey to start out with but when you aren't replacing them constantly.....
Post by: Persus13 on November 19, 2020, 06:50:29 pm
Eshin I don't have their DLC yet so I haven't had the chance to check out. They also were the second Skaven DLC faction and most of the complaints I recall were before either had happened. And now people are complaining about more Skaven.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 19, 2020, 11:12:07 pm
Although these days I honestly spend more time playing with mod-factions than others. Cataph's faction mods and OVN lost factions are all in pretty great places, and the CTT balance mod provides a nice alternative system that limits doomstacks and encourages more army variety.
Post by: Jopax on November 20, 2020, 05:56:10 am
As for the upcoming DLC, seems like we'll be getting an Ikit 2 : Biotech Boogaloo for the Skaven, which I'm all for, giving them the option of going monster or dakka seems like a good idea.
Wood Elves on the other hand, ehhh, as much as I love the High/Dark Elves I've never cared much for their hippie cousins, tho, I might get their DLC finally if this turns out interesting enough.
I'm just trying to figure out where they'll fit the new Skaven lord on the Vortex map, ME start is obvious enough with the Hell Pit (or whatever it's called) but I got no clue what they'll reshuffle for Vortex since that map is pretty goddamn packed with LL starts.
Post by: Teneb on November 20, 2020, 08:51:19 am
Although these days I honestly spend more time playing with mod-factions than others. Cataph's faction mods and OVN lost factions are all in pretty great places, and the CTT balance mod provides a nice alternative system that limits doomstacks and encourages more army variety.I used to play the game modded to hell and back but then I figured out that all these mods were making the game slow (especially when loading) af. So now I'm a vanilla basic scrub.
EDIT: I guess Lustriabowl is going to get even more packed?
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 20, 2020, 11:05:16 am
(That said I haven't used SFO / other further-reaching overhauls, so can't vouch for their performance impacts.)
Post by: Teneb on November 20, 2020, 11:40:06 am
If I remember right the major modders have made strides in performance improvements over the course of this year, though you're still going to need a good SSD to deal with the sheer size of everything.Well see, I have HDDs. SSDs are expensive here in The South. Especially ones that won't become full after merely installing this game.
(That said I haven't used SFO / other further-reaching overhauls, so can't vouch for their performance impacts.)
Post by: scriver on November 20, 2020, 11:43:23 am
Post by: Teneb on November 20, 2020, 11:54:12 am
What are that weird lizard snapping turtle centaur (mage?) unit in the trailer?Zoats. They are an odd one in that they are a weird import from 40k (where they are a Tyranid unit!). But here they look like a monster unit with a bound (unspecified) lore of life spell.
Also I love how Ariel is bizarre like her miniature.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 20, 2020, 11:55:15 am
Well see, I have HDDs. SSDs are expensive here in The South. Especially ones that won't become full after merely installing this game.
Fair enough, though nowadays there are decent ones (~500gb) available for roughly the price of a new AAA game. (That assumes you have the setup to accommodate another drive, admittedly.)
What are that weird lizard snapping turtle centaur (mage?) unit in the trailer?
Zoats (https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Zoats), apparently.
Post by: scriver on November 20, 2020, 01:07:21 pm
Thanks ;)
Post by: Teneb on November 24, 2020, 01:07:48 pm
Post by: nenjin on November 24, 2020, 01:31:01 pm
Post by: lemon10 on November 24, 2020, 06:03:56 pm
Maybe now they'll come out of their f'ing forests.Yeah, the issue with the elves has never been them lacking good or cool units, although I will concede that this will open up more playstyles for their armies which is always nice, its been them having to run around like chickens with their heads cut off putting out fires cause they can never raise more than 3 good armies or have any actual garrisons outside the forest even after they conquer fifty settlements.
Post by: nenjin on November 24, 2020, 06:58:28 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTaIyoG4XiU
In 4 150+ turn coop campaigns now, I've seen the WE leave their forests exactly once, and that was to gank a single full army that I happened to stray too close to da trees.
(We razed that forest 15 turns later.)
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 24, 2020, 07:36:56 pm
In my current game I've got a single army (assisting/assisted by a Skaven ally) conquering the Bretonnians. The wood elves are at war, and have something like 4 armies in a giant deathball in the forest. If I leave the adjacent settlements unguarded they'll swoop in and raze them, but otherwise just sit pretty in the forest.
And so they drive progress in the region to a halt until I can focus a bunch of armies together.
Wood elves generally aren't my thing thematically, but the Drycha faction (just trees and animals, no elves allowed from what I've seen) does sound interesting.
Post by: Mech#4 on November 25, 2020, 12:43:54 am
Post by: Teneb on November 25, 2020, 10:51:52 am
Post by: Persus13 on November 25, 2020, 05:55:54 pm
Post by: nenjin on November 25, 2020, 05:58:59 pm
Post by: Burnt Pies on November 25, 2020, 07:29:30 pm
I kinda hope we can see a middle ground with this dlc, they're a flavourful faction and I'd like to fight them outside of the same forest maps every time.
Post by: Dostoevsky on November 25, 2020, 09:40:28 pm
Post by: Persus13 on November 25, 2020, 10:38:14 pm
Post by: Jopax on November 26, 2020, 10:27:38 am
I guess it's a change of pace from the regular campaign stuff but I'm not a fan of time-limited things like this, too much stress for me.
His ME start looks decent enough tho.
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2020, 12:57:37 pm
Going to do my highlights below, with commentary, but won't highlight anything that we don't already know (like how amber is no longer the horrible mechanic that it was):
Spoiler: To keep the post from being too big (click to show/hide)
Post by: Persus13 on December 02, 2020, 01:31:20 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 02, 2020, 02:38:34 pm
I've been watching a shit load of Legend of Total War, watching him save "doomed" battles and campaigns. He mowed down the new Chaos invasion with Clan Moulder no real problems, but I think most would be spooked seeing that shit spawn.
Post by: Jopax on December 02, 2020, 02:46:03 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 02, 2020, 03:14:16 pm
Chaos invasion on Legendary difficulty is now, for us regular mortals, pretty fuckin cray. 12 armies in the first wave, _30_ armies in the second wave.Archaon was buffed to give +3% weapon and missile strength to all units in this upcoming patch. This will actually have an impact in the Chaos invasion.
I've been watching a shit load of Legend of Total War, watching him save "doomed" battles and campaigns. He mowed down the new Chaos invasion with Clan Moulder no real problems, but I think most would be spooked seeing that shit spawn.
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 02, 2020, 03:28:55 pm
Patch notes are out! (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-ii-the-twisted-twilight-update/)
The company rep on reddit mentioned that there will likely be a Part 2 patch notes tomorrow detailing the more granular unit balance changes, by the by.
Post by: nenjin on December 02, 2020, 06:58:25 pm
Was he cheesing the warpbomb brood horrors? That shit looks both utterly broken and stupidly fun. Just running in stupid fast monsters that can go boom on command and then they can keep on being stupid fast monsters afterwards.
He was doing some of that. The other was using a single hero in hiding to blow them up with Plague and other stuff.
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 03, 2020, 01:06:25 pm
The buffs to chaos units, combined with the new Archaeon faction buffs, will probably make chaos invasion armies a little more tricky to deal with (setting aside LegendofTotalWar cheese, at least).
Surprised to see no new buffs for poor ol' War Wagons.
Oh, also some magic got nerfed. Burning Head and Penumbral Pendulum in particular.
Post by: Persus13 on December 03, 2020, 01:27:32 pm
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2020, 02:14:06 pm
Quote
Oh, also some magic got nerfed. Burning Head and Penumbral Pendulum in particular.
A shame, but I understand. Spells like Burning Head, PP and Wind of Death basically remove the need for pretty much any other offensive spells IMO.
Post by: Jopax on December 03, 2020, 03:20:22 pm
Also as an immediate QoL I'd like to see is the forge upgrades displaying the current stats of the item you're upgrading/reforging. I know that the numbers in general go bigger with the rarities but I'd be nice to be able to make an informed choice without having to go trough several screens of UI to find the item in question and then memorize its stats before committing to a choice :V
Post by: Dostoevsky on December 03, 2020, 04:45:01 pm
Also as an immediate QoL I'd like to see is the forge upgrades displaying the current stats of the item you're upgrading/reforging. I know that the numbers in general go bigger with the rarities but I'd be nice to be able to make an informed choice without having to go trough several screens of UI to find the item in question and then memorize its stats before committing to a choice :V
From the company rep on reddit - changes, though not really the one you're looking for:
Quote
We’ve heard your feedback regarding the Forge of Daith, and we’re going to work to make various improvements.
Short-term, we’re going to focus on implementing some changes that should deal with some of the most notable pain points raised in the last few days:Longer term we want to make continued improvements – while we don’t want to make fundamental changes to the underlying gameplay and UI, there are two areas in particular we want to focus on:
- Reforged items will no longer return to their base level upon expiring, and instead will revert to the level they were before being Reforged.
- When you receive Forge of Daith dilemmas that affect a maximum-level item, you will be able to choose to reduce the time until the next Daith’s Gift event – Naestra will no longer walk away without anything (she’s generous, but not that generous!).
- We also want to do a pass on the item effects overall to ensure that they provide interesting and exciting gameplay choices.
We appreciate your feedback and patience so far and are confident that we’ll be able to work together to make the Sisters a truly unique campaign experience. As always, development is subject to change - so while this is currently the plan, we appreciate your patience and understanding if this changes in the future, and we will let you know if that is the case.
- Letting you see in advance which item you receive from the Daith’s Gift dilemma
- Investigating what new visual elements we can create to support the system
(They're also going to improve the quality of unit portraits for this DLC and Grom's.)
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2020, 05:19:50 pm
Quote
I had two attempts at the sister campaign, both ended in disaster, mostly because I got no clue on how to play them properly yet (the skaven approach of cannon fodder and overwhelming firepower doesn't seem particularly effective, mostly because the firepower isn't all that overwhelming so far). Will say that their shooty hawk ability thing is pretty damn juicy, able to yeet a weaker unit of infantry almost instantly if it lands nicely.
As LoTW says "Either it's a crap stack, or a doom stack." Half measures and thematic armies don't tend to win. Which bums me out. Actually his videos often bum me out, because he basically says melee is trash and doesn't deliver damage, so it's all your spells, ranged, artillery and sometimes lords and monsters that do all the heavy lifting to win battles. Melee just exists to keep the enemy away from your "good units." Which sucks because there's so much variety in each army, but only a handful of units that really deliver.
Post by: Teneb on December 03, 2020, 06:46:06 pm
Keep in mind that he says melee is trash because he plays on legendary where the AI has so many battle buffs that melee is indeed trash.QuoteI had two attempts at the sister campaign, both ended in disaster, mostly because I got no clue on how to play them properly yet (the skaven approach of cannon fodder and overwhelming firepower doesn't seem particularly effective, mostly because the firepower isn't all that overwhelming so far). Will say that their shooty hawk ability thing is pretty damn juicy, able to yeet a weaker unit of infantry almost instantly if it lands nicely.
As LoTW says "Either it's a crap stack, or a doom stack." Half measures and thematic armies don't tend to win. Which bums me out. Actually his videos often bum me out, because he basically says melee is trash and doesn't deliver damage, so it's all your spells, ranged, artillery and sometimes lords and monsters that do all the heavy lifting to win battles. Melee just exists to keep the enemy away from your "good units." Which sucks because there's so much variety in each army, but only a handful of units that really deliver.
On normal or in multiplayer (you can see this in youtubers like Zerkovich, Turin, Indypride and others) melee is very important.
Post by: LordPorkins on December 03, 2020, 06:47:02 pm
As admittedly impressive as Legend is, he speaks for a very specific section of the overall game. When he said Wood Elves got hit with an Economy nerf, he means he can't cheese it anymore. Which most people dont do anyways.
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2020, 07:04:28 pm
Yeah, you can manage with diversity in your roster at normal, and if you're playing solo, well, you really have no basis for comparison other than the AI, who also usually tends to build diverse (suboptimal...) armies. But playing with someone else who is know pretty versed in TW2 mechanics and unit performance....the difference is still clear even at normal. One is highly performant. The other "gets a long." Like in my current DE campaign I just said fuck it, internet says Darkshards w/e Shields are where it's at, let's go with that. Fuck Corsairs, Shades, Cold One Knights, Hydras, Dragons.....just have over half your army as Darkshards w/ Shields, maybe or hero or two, and some melee you don't really care about, and watch your foes liquefy with every volley of shots.
It's not that you can't make it work, it's just that once you know....you know you're settling for a less efficient game in the name of flavor. Your first playthrough or two, that's probably going to be part of the learning process. But for me, having played about 5 factions, my mindset going in now is "Ok, let's sort out the shit from the things that will actually be doing the work." And even in normal, melee ends up on the bad side of that equation a lot. With the rare exception of some monster melee like Varghulfs, Hell Pit Abominations, things of that caliber. Things that regenerate health :P
When I first started TW2, I went right to Beastmen. And those are some of the most white knuckle battles I've had, even on normal. Not only because I didn't know enough, not only because Mememen can't compete very well with the DLC and revised factions....but because they're almost all melee until you hit like Tier 3+ where you get can overpriced semi-durable ranged, and Tier 5 where you can get Melee/Artillery hybrids. As soon as I played Skaven and DE and had affordable, mass amounts of ranged it was like....holy shit, ranged is so dominant and results in so many 1-sided fights compared to melee.
It painfully reminds me of when I played Chaos in Warhammer Fantasy 3rd edition table top. I wanted a nice melee fight with my brick of decked out Chaos Warriors that cost 40% of my army points and owned 90% of my <3. Win or lose I just wanted a decent battle. What I got instead was every variety of ranged cheese thrown at me so that most of my units were dead before they'd even gotten engaged.
Quote
When he said Wood Elves got hit with an Economy nerf
I really hope he wasn't characterizing their immunity to attrition affecting bankruptcy attrition as an "economy nerf."
Post by: Persus13 on December 03, 2020, 07:22:31 pm
Post by: Teneb on December 03, 2020, 07:23:48 pm
I still do balanced armies most of the time because I have more fun with it, but multiplayer is where melee shines. Taking more ranged than melee as any faction other than Vampirates (or maybe in some meme builds) is asking to be crushed.
Of course, if you don't care about MP you can instead stop worrying and learn to love the doomstack.
Melee units also tend to do worse or better depending on what unit sizes you use, iirc.The game is 100% balanced around Large sizes, but I am a pleb who plays on medium to get smooth framerates when facing skaven blobs and such nonsense.
Post by: nenjin on December 03, 2020, 11:58:31 pm
Quote
Of course, if you don't care about MP you can instead stop worrying and learn to love the doomstack.
Ech, I know. Just always makes me a little bummed that I feel compelled to jettison the cool stuff in favor of what results in broken 1-sided fights and "lel get outta here" auto resolves.
Post by: Mech#4 on December 04, 2020, 02:56:11 am
Post by: scriver on December 04, 2020, 03:49:06 am
Post by: nenjin on December 04, 2020, 10:36:13 am
But if ranged is so dominant why am I so bad at playing Wood Elves?
Cause you gotta bait the AI into walking into your arrow storms. Usually like, your lord, hero and maybe a unit of melee or two can be enough to tie up all the enemy's melee long enough that your ranged can just focus fire down one unit at a time. That's typically how I've done it. Although I would mention, DE and Skaven both have low level, armor piercing missile units which makes a big difference. I don't know about Wood Elves on that front.
Post by: Teneb on December 04, 2020, 11:23:42 am
Sometimes you also want to disable fire-at-will if you are facing a shielded frontline. Move your archers to the flanks and then toggle it back on.But if ranged is so dominant why am I so bad at playing Wood Elves?
Cause you gotta bait the AI into walking into your arrow storms. Usually like, your lord, hero and maybe a unit of melee or two can be enough to tie up all the enemy's melee long enough that your ranged can just focus fire down one unit at a time. That's typically how I've done it. Although I would mention, DE and Skaven both have low level, armor piercing missile units which makes a big difference. I don't know about Wood Elves on that front.
Shields are crazy strong in the newer TWs.
Post by: nenjin on December 04, 2020, 02:26:45 pm
Just watched LotTW smoke an entire dwarf army of slayers and longbeards with nothing but a couple heroes delaying the infantry, three units of basic sword melee that almost got instantly crushed, and a fuckload of regular peasant bowmen, which do not have great missile fire. (I don't believe they had plague arrows.) Despite all that, he still won and that's about as lopsided a fight as I can imagine.
Post by: Jopax on December 04, 2020, 03:41:23 pm
I'm guessing you could easily push the hawk riders further into broken if you ran more of them in combination with a few more heroes to provide the extra snares.
Anyways, I'm still not entirely sold on the WE what with their lack of proper siege stuff and kinda lackluster options in terms of unit variety (they do get a bit of everything but it feels so meh compared to pretty much every other faction, tho I guess that's because they haven't really had proper updates until now).
Also also, further thoughts on the forge stuff, pretty eh, you get most of the stuff fairly quickly and until they implement the rework I'd say only a single option is really viable in the long term, even if it does offer weaker rewards.
Also also also, is it just me or is Ariel kinda bloody overloaded in terms of skills/abilities/kit in general. Like, I get she's supposed to be a legendary hero and super special and powerful but she gets so much shit to choose from as well as being able to do so much in terms of magic and active skills that every other hero of the faction looks rather shit, like the poor wayfinder dudes which have barely enough skillpoints to take up the full 40 points.
Anyways anyways, on to the real meat of the DLC, the big bad glutton rat, super stoked to play around with the mutation stuff.
Post by: nenjin on December 04, 2020, 07:49:46 pm
Having not really read the whole wiki or anything, I often assumed you needed something special to destroy gates. Then I think I was playing DEs or something and had basically just infantry, missiles and two bolt throwers. Without any real options, I just set a couple spearmen on the gate and was surprised how long it didn't take them to break it down. Maybe it was a low level wall or something. Still, I just think about sieges in terms of if I have enough meat to take the fortress now. Battering rams and actual units that deal good damage to walls, actual artillery, are all just "nice to haves." On normal. Against the AI.
Post by: LordPorkins on December 04, 2020, 11:17:09 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on December 04, 2020, 11:47:50 pm
Post by: Persus13 on December 05, 2020, 10:56:17 am
Post by: Jopax on December 05, 2020, 12:10:26 pm
And what I meant by lack of proper siege was something heavy and shooty like mortars, bolt throwers or plagueclaws. Stuff that can damage both towers and walls and is pretty good at murdering any garrisoning units afterwards. Sure they have nice archers and the hawks are pretty sweet, but they both usually need to be within murder range to do any damage.
Dunno, this might just be tons of hours playing factions with proper artillery and not being used to going without. Probably one of the reasons why I disliked the greenskins as they're a fairly aggressive and melee focused army, while my mindset is usually to hunker down and shoot anything that tries to touch me :V
Post by: Teneb on December 05, 2020, 12:14:32 pm
Yeah I think it's healing any forest that gives her in ME, tho I haven't played that yet.Greenskins have great artillery though. Doom diver might be the best in the game.
And what I meant by lack of proper siege was something heavy and shooty like mortars, bolt throwers or plagueclaws. Stuff that can damage both towers and walls and is pretty good at murdering any garrisoning units afterwards. Sure they have nice archers and the hawks are pretty sweet, but they both usually need to be within murder range to do any damage.
Dunno, this might just be tons of hours playing factions with proper artillery and not being used to going without. Probably one of the reasons why I disliked the greenskins as they're a fairly aggressive and melee focused army, while my mindset is usually to hunker down and shoot anything that tries to touch me :V
Post by: Jopax on December 05, 2020, 12:16:10 pm
Like, a single plagueclaw is going to do just as much if not more, much earlier in the game (while also probably being cheaper, can't remember their prices/upkeep atm)
Edit:
Unrelated thing I meant to comment on earlier but forgot. Is it just me or is the escaped greenskin slaves event kind of shit in the vortex campaign? You fight a fairly tough DE army (for early game anyway, mostly because they're just as missile heavy as you so you will take casualties) and then every now and then a single province in naggarond will get the event that damages some buildings and reduces their slave numbers. Not sure if it was something bugged or if that's all there is to it, but I was expecting something more developed I guess? Something you can maybe interact with down the line a bit?
Post by: Teneb on December 05, 2020, 08:26:28 pm
Post by: Jopax on December 11, 2020, 06:58:59 am
Would've won the entire campaign if only my army didn't rout before Throt managed to run to the edge of the map, useless bunch of gits can't even handle multiple WE armies :V
Post by: LordPorkins on December 12, 2020, 12:01:49 pm
but I was expecting something more developed I guess?
Congrats. You just summarized the entirety of the sisters campaign.
Post by: Teneb on February 02, 2021, 11:29:10 am
CA has dropped a (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UbDOcQK3tg) bunch (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIqv6Yrd7TE) of (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfzbKB8W6_I) teasers (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0d9h9E0dSI).
Total Warhammer 3 time, now with Kislev.
Kislev
Post by: scriver on February 02, 2021, 12:34:21 pm
Post by: Teneb on February 03, 2021, 10:14:12 am
According to CA, there'll be 6 core races (plus a pre-order one, ugh). These six are Kislev, Khorne, Tzeentch, Slaanesh, Nurgle and... Cathay.
Also have stated there will still be one DLC for Warhammer 2 this year, so Beastmen/Warriors still have some hope.
No Ogres (unless they are the pre-order dlc) so at least I can yell: "IT'S RAW!"
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 03, 2021, 10:32:43 am
I am very much all for Kislev and Cathay, so at least that is something I can get excited about. Hopefully the pre-order DLC race is good too, but I won't be holding my breath given the track record so far.
Post by: Persus13 on February 03, 2021, 10:46:42 am
I'm curious what the last TW2 DLC will be. Dwarves + Beastman would be neat, but I'd expect them to have a TW2 faction in the mix too.
Post by: scriver on February 03, 2021, 11:15:15 am
Post by: Jopax on February 03, 2021, 11:20:40 am
Still, pretty hype, seeing how much fun I've had with the franchise so far (and how much of it I haven't touched yet)
Not sure I'll bother pre-ordering tho, depending on what the thing turns out to be I might just wait and grab it on sale after a while.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 03, 2021, 11:28:22 am
Store page dropped some pretty obvious hints at Nagash but I again doubt they'd just put the big bad as a pre-order thing.
The Chaos Warriors were a pre-order faction for the first game, so it is not without precedent. But I am not expecting Nagash either since they got a lot of backlash for the Chaos Warrior pre-order bonus and they have (hopefully) learned from it.
Post by: Cthulhu on February 03, 2021, 11:34:10 am
No idea what they'll actually do, but the trailer description does say you'll fight in the realms of chaos so...
I'm putting my money on pre-order chorfs
Post by: LordPorkins on February 03, 2021, 01:59:13 pm
2 Kislev
2 Cathay
1 For each of the Gods
And 1 for Chaos Undivided. While they havent explicitly STATED that Daemon-Only Armies are in, I find it unlikely they'll attempt to release a DLC that's just taking existing units and putting them in one army.
Post by: sambojin on February 03, 2021, 06:28:25 pm
The original (not the one I made) chaos tribes map is here, under the "Contact with other races and nations" bit for Cathay. There's lots of room for cool stuff there :)
https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Cathay
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on February 06, 2021, 01:30:34 pm
I still think the best way to do daemons would be having a separate realms of chaos submap where your cities are, and you can open portals to invade the main map. Give some new strategic considerations, being able to show up in various areas (maybe limited by chaos corruption and such, so you benefit from chaos factions doing well, maybe even ways to assist them via daemon shit)More likely we'll be getting into the area's of the Chaos Wastes above Norsca where the Chaos Gate is and various factions of Daemons live.
No idea what they'll actually do, but the trailer description does say you'll fight in the realms of chaos so...
I'm putting my money on pre-order chorfs
Post by: LordPorkins on February 08, 2021, 02:55:22 pm
Store page dropped some pretty obvious hints at Nagash but I again doubt they'd just put the big bad as a pre-order thing.
I would say that it's unlikely that the store page would hint at the Preorder like that. My bet is that this is referring to the mysterious ninth lord in the game. My money would be on Belakor actually. He fits perfectly as the leader of a Chaos Undivided army, is constantly trying to get more power, and is stated to be older than the Elves.
Post by: Dostoevsky on February 08, 2021, 05:04:28 pm
Store page dropped some pretty obvious hints at Nagash but I again doubt they'd just put the big bad as a pre-order thing.
I would say that it's unlikely that the store page would hint at the Preorder like that. My bet is that this is referring to the mysterious ninth lord in the game. My money would be on Belakor actually. He fits perfectly as the leader of a Chaos Undivided army, is constantly trying to get more power, and is stated to be older than the Elves.
Wasn't the big bad of WH1 (chaos invasion / warriors) the pre-order bonus for it?
(That said I don't really know enough about Belakor or Nagash to have an opinion on the matter.)
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on February 08, 2021, 05:13:36 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on February 08, 2021, 05:23:04 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on February 08, 2021, 08:08:21 pm
Post by: Moddan on February 09, 2021, 06:49:32 am
Post by: Teneb on February 09, 2021, 08:23:58 am
The current speculation is that either Chaos Dwarves or Ogre Kingdoms will be the pre-order bonus - playable in part 2 before release. Like they did with Norsca. I'd like that.CA has said outright that the pre-order bonus is for game 3 only.
Post by: Jopax on February 09, 2021, 09:37:29 am
The FAQ merely states it's gonna be a Race Pack, not that it's exclusive to game 3 at launch (doesn't say you'll be able to play it in game 2 either but still)
Biggest indication of it being either the Chaos Dwarves or maybe the Ogres is the recent changes to the ME map, while it's still shrouded in fog they most certainly added a bunch more land to the east of the worlds edge mountains. So it would make sense for it to be the CD I guess since the Ogres are a bit further east than that, they'd make more sense after the fact since they'd be facing both Cathay and Dwarves in that case, instead of having an awkward empty space to their west if they come before the Dwarves.
Also on the note of the last lord pack for WH2, LoTW had raised a good point in that it might be Neferata considering again the recent changes to the southern parts of the ME map. No idea who could be her counterpart in terms of the other races/lords tho. She could be a freelc lord tho, that would take care of that problem I guess.
Post by: Teneb on February 09, 2021, 12:51:38 pm
Have they? Where?Beastmen really need this last DLC. They're in a horrible place.
The FAQ merely states it's gonna be a Race Pack, not that it's exclusive to game 3 at launch (doesn't say you'll be able to play it in game 2 either but still)
Biggest indication of it being either the Chaos Dwarves or maybe the Ogres is the recent changes to the ME map, while it's still shrouded in fog they most certainly added a bunch more land to the east of the worlds edge mountains. So it would make sense for it to be the CD I guess since the Ogres are a bit further east than that, they'd make more sense after the fact since they'd be facing both Cathay and Dwarves in that case, instead of having an awkward empty space to their west if they come before the Dwarves.
Also on the note of the last lord pack for WH2, LoTW had raised a good point in that it might be Neferata considering again the recent changes to the southern parts of the ME map. No idea who could be her counterpart in terms of the other races/lords tho. She could be a freelc lord tho, that would take care of that problem I guess.
Also from the steam store page:
Quote
Pre-purchase to get an additional free Race Pack for Total War: WARHAMMER III.
Says specifically Warhammer 3
Post by: nenjin on February 09, 2021, 02:46:18 pm
Post by: Jopax on February 09, 2021, 06:08:36 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 09, 2021, 06:47:03 pm
Also, while Norsca being the preorder bonus for 2 got them a lot of goodwill, let's not forget that actually getting Norsca into WH2 ran into some coding hurdles they didn't expect, which led to Norsca not actually being in WH2 for almost a year. So after that experience I wouldn't hold your breath for a WH2 and 3 race pack.
Post by: Teneb on February 09, 2021, 11:40:58 pm
I didn't get WH2 on release/preorder so I can't confirm this, but did the Norsca have the same blurb? I think it might just be poorly worded and it probably will be playable in the current ME map if not the Vortex one. But I guess we'll have to wait and see.Norsca was explicitly said "pre-order and play norsca on WH1!". I think they are avoiding this situation because their spaghetti code broke norsca and ME itself when WH2 came out.
Post by: micelus on February 10, 2021, 02:41:13 am
My initial speculation was that Belakor/Chaos Undivided would be the pre-order faction because a)the stinger on the steam page b) if you're going to have monogods, might as well throw in a chaos undivided as well. However, it was pointed out in a speculation video that not having ogres would leave a lot of land inhabited by placeholders. That is, unless we get a Bretonnia situation wherein we get an unfinished faction instead.
I personally don't think Nagash is what is being hinted to on the steam page because when has Nagash really needed a champion? If it was anyone, its the Liche-King Arkhan. Belakor's shtick is that he needs a champion to do anything he wants to do. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Belakor bodysnatched/shapeshifted into the advisor.
I will not be surprised, despite all the quality memes, if they just skip over the Beastmen entirely.i'd honestly be fine with a combined beastman/woc faction at this point
Post by: sambojin on February 10, 2021, 03:58:07 am
Post by: Persus13 on March 13, 2021, 12:39:04 pm
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/m49k9m/rakarth_the_beast_master_as_flc/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/m49k9m/rakarth_the_beast_master_as_flc/)
Post by: Mech#4 on May 14, 2021, 01:27:35 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcYnYdmrZMI
One of the big new things shown in the video is a new battle type, survival battles. Fighting against waves of enemy forces, Kislev has to take objective flags and defeat a greater deamon of Khorne. This battle mode will also have constructable battlements, towers as well as the ability to call in reinforcements.
Shown is also the ability to buff units during a battle using the winds of magic (seperate from spell lores) and being able to upgrade units during a battle.
We also get to see some of the units of Kislev and Daemons of Khorne with Winged Lancers, Streltsi, Bear Cavalry fighting Bloodletters, Bloodcrushers, Khorne Beserkers, Skull Cannon of Khorne and an Exalted Bloodthirster.
Post by: Persus13 on June 03, 2021, 12:52:45 pm
Teaser Trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syIoix1i5YM)
Steam Page (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1556110/Total_War_WARHAMMER_II__The_Silence__The_Fury/)
Post by: nenjin on June 03, 2021, 01:51:21 pm
Post by: Lidku on June 03, 2021, 02:43:37 pm
Post by: scriver on June 03, 2021, 03:01:26 pm
Post by: Lidku on June 03, 2021, 03:06:59 pm
Post by: Jopax on June 03, 2021, 04:03:17 pm
Not owning the first game means you don't get to use the factions that are from the first game, despite them being present on the world map, nothing particularly strange about that.
Besides, just the base game of WH2 offers a fairly large and developed campaign map with 4 big factions, each with several lords, free or otherwise. Similarly the ME map has some more free stuff and is even larger. Not owning the DLC will strip you of some unit and lord choices but you can always get those afterwards if you like the game itself.
Hell, just buying both the first and the second game is going to give you so much different shit to play that you probably won't need any of the DLC unless you want a specific race to play.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 03, 2021, 04:08:02 pm
Like, yeah, tons of DLC for you to spend money on. But you only need the ones you're actually going to play with personally. And if you're playing the game enough to warrant buying all the various DLCs you're certainly getting your money's worth. Especially if you buy stuff on sale.
I agree it's not as great when you're coming into the games late like this. But if you look at it from the perspective of people who owned 1 when 2 came out, it's really not a bad model. Better than most, in many ways.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 03, 2021, 04:35:58 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on June 03, 2021, 04:38:38 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 03, 2021, 04:41:43 pm
Post by: Lidku on June 03, 2021, 04:54:29 pm
Functionally better, yeah. Though I suppose from a "Feels better" standpoint people don't really like having to buy multiple games to get a single experience.
Yep, the exact reason why I'm not getting it. I'll wait around for Warhammer 3. If it has that same scheme where you're informally *nudged* to get previous whole base games, just to unlock or be able to things in a new iteration, then predictably I'm not getting Warhammer 3 either.
It just wouldn't make sense for me to fork up some doh for a game I'm not going to play a lot at all, just for a singular game as you rightfully inference. I expect some to come over and say "well maybe it's good to keep 1, just in case you want to least check it out or just for backup in case you get bored of 2 down the line".... but no, such a thing isn't going to work for me really; especially for a game like Warhammer 2 that already has tons of DLC. Not even Paradox, the company that locks tons of important mechanics behind DLCs (then subsequently makes them free later on, putting a wrench to people who payed good money for the said mechanics to beginning; they could've just waited), makes it so that if you don't own "X" game, you don't "Y" content.
Though with me tempting fate, it's possible that they may do that sort of thing.. but that's yet to be seen.
Post by: nenjin on June 03, 2021, 05:21:46 pm
I can't really defend CA's DLC policy. I got TWH1 and some DLC from a friend so they spared me the entry cost. Is it any surprise though that a game this close to TT Warhammer has a pricing scheme similar to if you were playing TT?
So I can't defend it. But I think, after you've bought enough DLC it's worth it. The only reason I have all the DLCs I do is because I'm interested in playing so many different factions. If you don't care and you're just like "I like Elves" or "I like Vampires" then you can get just the base game and sink stupid amount of hours into it just with the base factions.
But yeah. Their DLC framework is confusingly laid out and I don't blame anyone for being turned off by it. If it was a new IP trying to do this, I'd have said no myself and moved on.
Also is it just me and disliking change or.....is there a slight "DoW 2 --> DoW 3" vibe for "TWH2 --> TWH3." There's some structured event-like stuff in TWH3 that I didn't find myself all that interested in when I saw it in the trailers. "Fighting against endless waves of foes" isn't the same as an actual battle simulation.
Post by: Persus13 on June 03, 2021, 05:36:02 pm
Mortal Empires is a DLC for 2 that is free and checks if you have 1. And I'm pretty happy with the policy because 2 got plenty of playtime out of me for a standalone expansion without 1.
Also is it just me and disliking change or.....is there a slight "DoW 2 --> DoW 3" vibe for "TWH2 --> TWH3." There's some structured event-like stuff in TWH3 that I didn't find myself all that interested in when I saw it in the trailers. "Fighting against endless waves of foes" isn't the same as an actual battle simulation.I can see the DoW3 comparisons but I think its mainly because the survival thing is a new mode, and so of course they're going to advertise the thing that's completely new to the game as opposed to your very traditional strategy campaign and multiplayer battles. Personally I hope there's coop for it because that sounds like an option that doesn't require me and a friend both having 40 hours to spare to play a multiplayer campaign, and it looks more interesting than just playing battles against the AI or standard multiplayer.
Post by: nenjin on June 03, 2021, 05:50:46 pm
And while I want more than 2 player coop, I'm not wild about most of the races in TWH3. So if they made more than 2 player coop possible, I might consider it. But there's no way in hell I'm buying all that DLC all over again.
Post by: Persus13 on June 03, 2021, 05:57:33 pm
Post by: nenjin on June 03, 2021, 06:00:42 pm
Post by: Persus13 on June 03, 2021, 06:08:06 pm
I'm not operating on concrete info, (we only really know concrete details on Kislev and the Khorne Chaos faction at this point) but I have seen 0 indication 3 will be different from 2 in regards to how 2 and 1 work together.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on June 03, 2021, 06:34:49 pm
Quote from: Total Warhammer 3 FAQ
The same applies for claiming the free Mortal Empires DLC – you would need to own both Total War: WARHAMMER and Total War: WARHAMMER II on the same store in order to claim it.
As far as I know there's no real details on it, but they are planning to have a giant map that stitches all three games together. Given how popular Mortal Empires is in 2, I'd be surprised if they weren't.
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2021, 02:49:31 am
So, if you have Warhammer II: Total War base game and play the Vortex campaign as... say... Lord Skrolk. You will still have Ikit Claw, another lord from the "Prophet and the Warlock" DLC, running around. You could even confederate him into Clan Pestilens and maybe get some of the DLC units with him, you just won't be able to recruit new ones.
No content is missing from the game not having DLC. Only the ability to play as them.
There's also quite a few free lords released now too; Gor-rok, Rakarth, Tretch Craventail, Tiktaq'to, Imrik, Repanse de Lyonesse, Lokhir Fellheart and Alith Anar.
Post by: Taricus on June 04, 2021, 02:59:38 am
Post by: Mech#4 on June 04, 2021, 03:19:10 am
Poison Wind Globadiers and Death Wind Globadiers have changed since release and work a bit better then they did for this purpose but still.
Post by: Jopax on June 04, 2021, 03:59:53 am
Also, on the so far showcased endless battle thing. I think it was LegendOfTotalWar that said in his showcase video that it's a special kind of encounter in the vein of quest battles or campaign finale battles. Something that won't be that common and possibly reserved for finishing off a particular demon faction and kicking them off the map. Which I'm fine with, as interesting as it looked I have a feeling if it wasn't randomized in any way it'd get pretty boring and optimized fairly quickly like most sieges are now.
And finally on the last DLC announced for WH2, ehhhh.
Never cared much for beastmen (one of the few DLC I never bothered getting) and I'm not too hot for a skink heavy faction either (much more of a big stompy lizard guy personally) so I'm not particularly interested in this one, hopefully the free lord that comes with it is going to be good.
Post by: nenjin on June 04, 2021, 10:43:56 am
Post by: dragdeler on June 06, 2021, 05:02:41 am
Post by: nenjin on June 06, 2021, 02:20:05 pm
But personally, all the Skaven DLC are worth it IMO.
Post by: IronyOwl on June 06, 2021, 05:28:57 pm
Vampire Counts (WH1 DLC) are super fun. Corrupt the land, crush your foes with immortal warrior-wizards, pin them down with oceans of skeletal fodder, rout them with screeching sky terrors. No ranged units, so you've gotta flank or punch through the typical frontline-backline formation most factions use, or they'll just pin and whittle you down. Plenty of flying units to do that with, though, or you could ram them with lumbering monsters or rabid wolves or skeletal knights.
Post by: nenjin on June 06, 2021, 05:40:10 pm
You could research all that....or just play what looks cool. Other than Beastmen, I feel like all faction meta things like economy and what not really do jive with the overall aesthetic of each faction.
Post by: dragdeler on June 06, 2021, 08:31:47 pm
-Pirates look kind of cool because of mobile base and "guntreants", no range units sound offputting though.
-I took an interest in tombking lore, pretty sure I'm getting them.
-Chaos looks like ok price but probably not worth it since I'm getting loads of chaos with WH3.
-Twisted and twilight looks cool because I've been meaning to try skaven and moulder is the mutations one right? Also I get to play woodelves without buying the big DLC.
So that would be like 60€ preorder, 10€ tombkings, and 5€ T&T DLC... Even if I only spent like 40 or something up until now it seems excessive and I hate to be supporting such business practices but what are you going to do, TW+Warhammer is an awesome blend... Waiting for sale would mean like maybe 10€ off 60 by end of the year, if I'm lucky enough that 3 should come out several months before winter sales, which is basically the price of a dlc, so I might as well right?! Who knows maybe it's actually a cool race.
Edit: it just seems less stressful to decide the total sum of money I will be spending now, and then just live with what I have (which is plenty, with 3 games and all the FLC that come with them, plus a few gimmicks because I'm and idiot that gets seduced by sales)
Post by: IronyOwl on June 06, 2021, 10:23:13 pm
-Pirates look kind of cool because of mobile base and "guntreants", no range units sound offputting though.Vampire pirates have a ton of ranged weaponry, it's the landlubbers that don't. Counts rely on bat swarms and wolves and knights. Coast has zombie gunners and zombie artillery and zombie gunners standing on top of crabs and the aforementioned walking shipwrecks mounted with artillery. And bats holding zombies holding bombs, because this faction is incredibly silly.
Mobile bases are indeed interesting, though I haven't gotten used to them enough to figure out how to make them work best. I'm kind of a shit pirate in general, really.
On that note, I appear to have been slightly mistaken- Vampire Counts come with WH1 base game, not separate WH1 DLC.
Post by: nenjin on June 07, 2021, 01:16:11 am
Post by: Manveru Taurënér on June 07, 2021, 09:37:35 am
So I see currently on Steam that Warhammer 2 is on sale right about now. I might consider getting it, but I've heard some disturbing news about it; Is it true that if you don't own the first Warhammer, that somethings are inexplicably locked out for you in Warhammer 2? If that's the case, it's essentially a deal broker for me and it seems like a malicious business practice. Though I hope that it isn't right at all, and I've just heard some random bad stuff about Warhammer 2 that may have been out of context.
You can get WH2 and a few select DLCs for the race(s) you enjoy and get a 100% complete single experience for those races in the WH2 campaign even without WH1. All having the first game as well does is add a separate bonus campaign with a combined, smushed together map of both game areas where you can play as any race from any of the content you own (I've personally despite owning both games and almost all DLC and having sunk 900 hours into TW2 not even bothered with a mortal empires campaign). And even if you don't own a particular game or DLC you still get to fight against those factions so any paid content added still benefit you whether you pay for it or not, which I'd personally say is about as consumer friendly as it could possibly get. Sure it looks intimidating when you see the full list of stuff to buy since by now they've been continually adding stuff for over 5 years, but you really don't need more than a handful of them for a full experience.
Basically, if you get WH2 and for instance decide you want to play High Elves, just getting the 2 DLC's for High Elves will let you play the High Elf WH 2 campaign and have the entire experience be indistinguishable from someone playing the campaign who owns every bit of content there is (also the blood and gore dlc, which while cheap some people object to the concept of, but ratings and stuff you know).
Post by: dragdeler on June 07, 2021, 10:03:49 am
What's worth noting is that when you own more than one game, you can play campaign throughout the united maps. At least that goes for 1+2... I'm assuming there will be a 1+2+3 campaign. I don't know whether there will be 1+3 or 2+3.
If you just want to play a campaign or two for a cheap buck I'd advise checking if 1 or 2 has the races you prefer, and getting one of them in sale. Whatever you own you get to use in subsequent games... That's why I'd assume most people will advise to grab all base games at sale: you get the most options for the money... If you care a lot about not being frivolous with your money I'd avoid the DLC like the plague. It should be noted that each game has a number of FLC too you get to use in each subsequent release IIRC. If you pick a DLC with a lord for a race you didn't have yet, you get a foot into that race making it completly playable except you can only pick that lord. Oh and preordering gets you a paid DLC for free.
I think that's about it. It sucks that they are that greedy and I understand where you come from, but like 15 bucks for the first is probably worth it IMHO, if you're not super invested into particular race you can get hundreds of hours out of it, easily, if you play each lord you have at your disposition.
Edit: with the dlc for this game its a bit like with cities skylines which I cracked with everything included, thinking I'd be cheated out of content with the base edition, then you realize you'd need to add a few hundred hours of gameplay to justify needing all that's on the menu.
Post by: nenjin on June 07, 2021, 10:36:33 am
Post by: dragdeler on June 07, 2021, 10:43:29 am
I don't super care for quest battles neither, I'll do them ok but seeking them out is another issue, and at times that'll make me feel like I'm missing essential parts... But quests in TW campaigns have allways managed to elude me, I got my own plans usually.
Post by: Persus13 on June 15, 2021, 05:59:32 pm
Post by: IronyOwl on June 15, 2021, 06:35:35 pm
Post by: dragdeler on June 16, 2021, 08:59:29 am
AAAAA how about you fucking write where the cursor is.
WHAT IS THIS ShIT WILL DOUBLe POST
Quote
Their signature gun-greataxe represents both the coolest hybrid weapon in Warhammer history and one of the best.
Post by: dragdeler on June 16, 2021, 09:01:51 am
Post by: Persus13 on June 16, 2021, 11:19:12 am
WHAT IS THIS ShIT WILL DOUBLe POSTThey released a video where you can see that weapon in action here: https://youtu.be/Bxe4C2kX_mU?t=43 (https://youtu.be/Bxe4C2kX_mU?t=43) Of course in the game you're probably not going to ever be that close to the model.QuoteTheir signature gun-greataxe represents both the coolest hybrid weapon in Warhammer history and one of the best.
Post by: dragdeler on June 16, 2021, 12:20:44 pm
Still bearnation very stronk, very cool
Post by: Mech#4 on June 18, 2021, 04:26:08 am
https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-khorne-roster-reveal/
(https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-khorne-roster-reveal/)
Along with Skarbrand there's the Exalted Bloodthirster and Herald of Khorne as lords. Heroes are Bloodreapers and Cultists of Khorne.
Interestingly, the Soul Grinder is present in the list.
Post by: Jopax on June 20, 2021, 11:00:00 am
Then again, we might see them as part of some sort of WoC rework where they entirely change how the factions work with rando lords ascending and being able to field demon units over classic chaos warriors.
Also it's gonna be real iffy going from so many fully fleshed out factions to the handful of units we're getting at the start with 3, hopefully they have some new interesting stuff in the battles to keep it varied.
And in WH2 related stuff, I forgot how fucking aggravating Noctilus starts are. You either ignore the Elves and have to deal with constant attacks or you go and stomp them which then causes the entirety of Ulthuan to start hating you and within a dozen or so turns all declare war on you.
I've had some success with ignoring them until I'm stronger but that leaves the road open for any of the big assholes to get rolling and take most of Ulthuan for themselves which makes dealing with them that much harder. Doesn't help that HE are pretty good at outshooting the VC until you get access to some of the heavier guns.
Post by: dragdeler on June 21, 2021, 10:34:26 am
Cant wait to get home and give my strongest generals some serious monsterstacks, especially the bone giant i havent seen yet... But black pyramid was one hell of a battle 7000vs 8000 units. I brought like 5 monsters and they all paved my way for victory. Some serious fucking battle it was.
Post by: dragdeler on June 23, 2021, 03:37:23 pm
Spoiler: post-battle-battlefield (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on June 23, 2021, 04:19:49 pm
Having been on the receiving end of da Greenskins though....when they've got a couple WAAGGGGHHH stacks accompanying their armies, Greenskins can be kinda tough. You'll be outnumbered and they'll swarm you with melee and swamp your lines, force you to micro the crap out of your cavalry, etc.....If you're doing a face roll army, facing off against a face roll AI, then yeah, they're not too tough. But when you've got a finesse army, dealing with an entire army that does not give a fuck and swarms you, it can actually be quite a bit of pressure.
Pound for pound, unit to unit comparison, yeah they are kinda weak. But I think it all comes together for them when you consider WAAGGGHHH stacks and WAAAGGGGHHH buffs.
Also, you're playing Khemri or Tomb Kings or w/e. Your skellies are one of the most disposable units of the game. "sure I had a decent amount of losses" makes sense when you consider you're sacrificing T1 trash troops. Imagine being an empire player and paying out the nose to have your half your expensive army slain by low tier ork troops due to their massive numbers....then getting clobbered over the end turn by the 2+ WAAGGGGHHH armies following it up.
FWIW, after watching dozens and dozens of hours of LoTW playing, my impression is that most armies use the same AI. There's nothing particular or specific about the Greenskin AI, it's just the overall army composition that dictates how the AI will behave.
Post by: dragdeler on June 23, 2021, 04:28:09 pm
Also I'm a hysterical idiot, there is a lizard faction dying out, they had allways been mad at me for trespassing because I had quests on their terrain... Well they are at their last town from what I can tell the huntsman's expedition (or whatever those lustrian humans are called) is going well, so graciously they offered to me a non aggression pact at 16k. Naturally I found that a bit quirky and counteroffered 46k for a non-agression act. When I say I like some races I'm not joking.
edit: oh and i'm playing on normalł because that is allready enough of attention to detail for my taste.
Post by: nenjin on June 23, 2021, 04:39:58 pm
And also yeah, the diplomacy AI is hilarious sometimes. A 1 region faction will attempt to bully you, a 50 region faction, into non-aggression pacts where they expect you to pay. Gets pretty obnoxious after Turn 150 when you're literally the strongest power in the old world but all the tiny factions refuse to respect that. You lose faction rep for being too strong and there's no counterbalancing "I'm so strong you better be nice to me" value.
Post by: LordPorkins on June 29, 2021, 05:12:51 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 01, 2021, 11:11:18 am
Silence & Fury FAQ (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-2-silence-and-fury-release-date-faq/)
Looks like oft-requested Jabberslythe and Ghorgon units are finally making it into Total War, plus new skinks and dinos for the Lizardmen.
Personally I'm a lot more excited for what they've been teasing for the free update. They briefly talked about how they're reworking the Beastman, but they're also releasing a new Beastman Lord, a new Dwarf Legendary Lord, and some sort of mercenary reinforcements (but won't say anything further until tomorrow).
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 01, 2021, 11:16:01 am
Post by: Persus13 on July 01, 2021, 04:53:20 pm
One of the teaser videos for the DLC showed off the bottom half of orges (https://youtu.be/25tO0qAYs20?t=18), so they aren't entirely silent on what mercenary reinforcements are.Yep. They just sent out an email announcing that the new Lord is a Great Bray Shaman and the mercenaries are ogres.
And it looks like the Lord is Thorek Ironbrow.
Post by: nenjin on July 02, 2021, 02:19:14 pm
I'm hyped to play them.
-Malagor's fucking wings actually do something now besides just making him a bigger target! He can finally fly! Apparently he is the only Small-sized Single Entity Flying unit in the game, and has a default speed of like 120. Basically the perfect kiting/missile wasting/wizard helicopter. With all the stuff you can get him, he's already looking like a one man Doomstack without the Sword of Khaine.
-Beastmen do not pay for Lords, Heroes or Units, either to recruit or upkeep. The Herd buildings do cost a shit load of Favor, but they don't spend any for the primary focus of the game: combat. Which means you no longer have to hide and crap your pants and worry about Bestial Rage falling while you try to raid somewhere to replenish your forces that just got their asses handed to them, while barely being able to afford replacement units. Now, if you lose an entire herd, you just recruit a new lord next turn and spend a few turns for his army to recruit up to full. Endless herds. Most units that used to be 2 or 3 turn recruits are now 1. The only limitations are the unit recruitment caps that you have to upgrade. Any flavor of Beastman army you want to build though, go right ahead, the direct cost is completely irrelevant, and the indirect cost you can just pay with enough bloodshed. I know this is basically Tomb King unit economy, but I never played them so it's new to me.
-Moon phases no longer come with crippling penalties, they're just buffs now.
-You plant a Herdstone in a city you captured. A pre-defined part of the map around that region then becomes a "Blood Ground." All combats and kills in that Blood Ground region then generate a resource called Dread that you can spend on bonuses and upgrades on a Beastmen-specific army panel. The Blood Ground seem hard coded for how big they are and what they encompass. Think of them like....animal hunting grounds.
-Once a Herdstone is planted, a ritual starts. The more kills and shit you do in that Blood Ground, the closer the ritual gets to completion. Upon completion, any ruins in that region cannot be re-occupied by other factions until they destroy the Herdstone you planted. This is pretty huge. It means you can actually depopulate the world now rather than razing a couple cities and having the AI gobble them up as soon as you leave. Wonder if Chaos will get a mini update or....because they really need this mechanic too. There's Landmark Herdstones too, in the usual places you expect like big faction capitals that have beef with the Beefmen. But you have to plant a Herdstone there to know if it's a unique one.
-Herdstone placement is actually fairly important, beyond the Landmarks. Where you plant the Herdstone has an impact on how much Destruction (winning battles, razing cities) you can generate. The more cities and the more developed cities there are within a Herdstone's Blood Grounds, the more Destruction you can rack up. The Herdstone stores these Destruction points, and you can keep storing them beyond what's actually needed to complete the ritual. In addition to all the above stuff the ritual does upon completion, you also get "Marks of Ruination" that basically gate how many armies you can field at once and what units you're allowed to recruit. (You still need the actual building in your herd to recruit the units there as well.) All this taken together means where you drop your Herdstones matters, like a sub-tactical layer to all the normal TWH logistical considerations. Because smaller, more densely packed regions with more capitals and more armies running around makes for more potential fights in a single Herdstone's Blood Ground, and therefore more Destruction Points (and Dread) get built up faster to power up your ritual and make your whole faction stronger in a really short period of time. Pretty cool stuff all around, really adds necessary spice to Horde style gameplay.
-Herdstones aren't really cities per se. But there is a main Herdstone building you can upgrade to provide a few faction bonuses and a garrison, which gets better just like a main settlement building. And the game replaces lower tier units with higher tier ones as the garrison gets better. I imagine that change will be coming to a lot of factions. There's also slots for additional support buildings at the Herdstone, that give bonuses to stuff inside the Blood Ground. Better map movement for you, worse for the enemy, sight range, bonus Magic Reserves, all sorts of stuff.
-Momentum is the name of the game now. Beastmen get a ton of faction unlocks that are all permanent. So even if you get curb stomped, you can rise again within 5 turns more or less where you left off.....for free. And it's not like you even need to defend Herdstones that aggressively. All they're doing is spreading Chaos Corruption, they're not a real part of your economy. Killing and destroying as much as you can and gradually unlocking bonuses, while paying no upkeep for anything, is the basis of your economy now. About the only thing I'm unclear on is if a Herdstone gets destroyed, if you loose the Marks of Ruination that it was storing. That would represent a pretty significant setback to your campaign.
-Dread, which is the other faction resource alongside Favor, gets used for a bunch of stuff. You get it for winning battles, inflicting casualties, razing cities and generally fucking stuff up. How much you get per dude killed seems somewhat related to what tier they were, but it's not clear. There's lots of ways to buff how much Dread you get too.
-Legendary lords can now be instantly confederated by spending Dread once you have enough of it. They cannot be confederated by normal means.
-Increasing the # of lords and heroes you can have, # of a specific unit that can be in one army, what tier you can upgrade your Herdstones to, all done with Dread. Beastmen still have a tech tree but it's not the primary way they upgrade their stuff now.
-Legendary Lords' horde buildings remain in place even if they're killed and re-recruited.
-Multiple army-based cast abilities now. One that shatters walls, one that buffs a unit insanely before dealing them a lot of damage (great for the MULTIPLE sources of free Cygor summons now interspersed through the Beastmen army) and one that destroys enemy ammo reserves, and halves their range for the duration. Basically three Army-based casts that plugs several major weaknesses of the army (sieging and superior missile fire) and suicide squad buff for your free cast summons.
-Some pretty sick Beastmen specific gear they can buy with Favor too. Health Regen, Extra Winds of Magic, Bound Cygor Summons, Physical Resist. And they can buy as many of them as they want.
-Bestial Rage no longer generates a shit army that can screw you over in MP by revealing your position or giving the AI a visible army to swarm. Now, Bestial Rage just provides buffs and a large debuff to Growth if it bottoms out.
-Growth is only used for upgrading your Herd's main settlement building it seems. What used to be THE BIGGEST pain in the ass for Beastmen: hording growth for alllll the stupid buildings you needed to build for your unit offerings, is now almost irrelevant after several dozen turns. All Herd buildings are paid for with Favor, and that's it.
-Tech tree is now something you unlock by doing challenges, like defeating 4 different factions in combat, win 5 ambush battles, yadda yadda. And there's some nutty buffs in there as well. Immunity to Psychology for all Beastmen units, along with several bonuses. 15% Physical Resistance for all Heroes and Lords. With the numbers I'm starting to see, hitting caps on Physical Resistance for most guys you can about should be fairly easy.
-Unrelated specifically to Beastmen, but they got rid of the Auto-Resolve bar. The game now just straight up tells you what the outcome is going to be, and what units will be lost if you decide to auto-resolve. Unsure how I feel about this. On the one hand, it's nice to know who you're going to lose. On the other though, the ambiguity and the risk-taking of the old way was a big motivation to fight out battles. Now....it's just a calculation. "Do I need to fight again after this battle?" If no, auto-resolve. If yes, fight it out. The only other reason to fight out a battle is if you are grossly outnumbered but can still micro your way to victory. I think fewer reasons to play out battles isn't in the game's best interest.
LotW gives the update 10/10 and you can tell he's pretty excited about it, despite not actually liking Beastmen thematically. And I can see why. From a purely numerical perspective, Beastmen now have bonuses coming in from so many sources it's kind of crazy. Bestial Rage. Moon Phases. Herd Buildings. Tech tree. Beastmen Upgrade screen.
But I think the thing that really defines the Beastmen change is how much shit they get for free. While their Horde Settlement buildings are easily expensive as the Vampire Counts, the amount of stuff they get for no real or actual cost in an economy that doesn't run on upkeep is sorta surprising.
Legend says he's basically steamrolling on Legendary difficulty. He ranks Beastmen near the Skaven in terms of power now, eclipsing Dwarves, Orks, Empire....It almost sounds like overkill from where I'm sitting, as someone who grubbed and scrapped in the dirt playing old Beefmen despite how bad they were.
Unsurprisingly perhaps, he said the AI isn't using them anywhere near to their full potential even on Legendary difficulty. So they're massively buffed and powerful in the player's hands but only somewhat more powerful as an AI. They're not meant to topple people's campaigns, they're meant as a power fantasy for the player. And I'm down with that. Although I don't know what they bode for MP.
If I harp on what Legend is saying so much, it's because I've heard his take on pretty much every faction in the game at length now. He's almost hyper critical of a lot of things sometimes. This is probably the most excited and positive I think I've heard him about anything short of Skaven weapon teams. So I think that counts for quite a bit, when Lord Cheese himself is genuinely excited about something. We'll see if that opinion holds.
Anyways, super stoked. I think Beastmen have always been my secret favorite WHF army and it's nice to see them get their moment in the sun. Maybe it was the merciless stream of memes from the community about them, joking about them being broke and homeless, that made CA decide to go full throttle. Now they're GigaBeef, so alpha they don't even know what money is and they're gonna turn your homeland into a nature preserve.
Beastmen have always played second fiddle to Chaos in WHF. They've always been intended as really mean canon fodder, the vanguard of the Chaos invasion. Well.....now it's time for people to fear going into the dark woods again!
Post by: Mech#4 on July 03, 2021, 02:08:46 am
The dwarfs also get a number of updates as well. A new casting system for runes where they act more like spells instead of abilities, though they don't cost winds of magic and casting one rune puts them all on a character-specific cooldown. There's also some changes to the grudge system, having more bonuses and penalties. I think high levels of grudge gets you free units of slayers?
Dwarf characters also have slots for runes on their character sheets. So you don't put them in the followerers area anymore which is great. There's also a bunch of new runes and items you can create from the forge mechanic.
Post by: nenjin on July 03, 2021, 02:24:54 am
Making me think playing Beefmen on Normal difficulty where I'm comfortable at will be way, way too easy. LotW is doing some cheesy Favor exploits so maybe I'm getting a false impression of it. But several times my jaw has just kinda hung open in surprise at how good this, that and the other things are.
Post by: dragdeler on July 03, 2021, 03:46:23 am
Post by: Persus13 on July 03, 2021, 08:39:16 am
The ogres currently are auxiliary troops once this DLC releases, but given that they're a new model, folks are speculating this is a mini-teaser for Ogre Kingdoms being a pre-order DLC for 3.
Post by: dragdeler on July 03, 2021, 09:20:11 am
You're probably right though.
Post by: Persus13 on July 03, 2021, 09:35:08 am
Sure logically, note though that even your wording doesn't exclude the possibility of it happening the dlc just needs to be available at day 1 to make it technically true. Since there is no actual lore it would be the perfect dissapointement, I don't think there is people super duper hyped about them, how could they.Let me spell it out for you clearer then. There is a 0% chance of Cathay being the unannounced preorder race pack DLC. Its already been announced to be part of the base game while the race pack explicitly hasn't been announced yet. Cathay is one of the 6 races you get when you buy the game along with the four Chaos God factions and Kislev. There's promotional videos out there talking about how CA is working with GW on translating Cathay to the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STAxzrnd0aA), and Cathay was teased at the end of the announcement trailer similar to how Skaven were teased for 2.
You're probably right though.
Post by: Jopax on July 03, 2021, 10:21:29 am
Sure logically, note though that even your wording doesn't exclude the possibility of it happening the dlc just needs to be available at day 1 to make it technically true. Since there is no actual lore it would be the perfect dissapointement, I don't think there is people super duper hyped about them, how could they.Let me spell it out for you clearer then. There is a 0% chance of Cathay being the unannounced preorder race pack DLC. Its already been announced to be part of the base game while the race pack explicitly hasn't been announced yet. Cathay is one of the 6 races you get when you buy the game along with the four Chaos God factions and Kislev. There's promotional videos out there talking about how CA is working with GW on translating Cathay to the game (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STAxzrnd0aA), and Cathay was teased at the end of the announcement trailer similar to how Skaven were teased for 2.
You're probably right though.
Skaven confirmed as launch day DLC for 3, calling it now!
Also damn, Beastmen sound rather interesting now, might have to get the DLC just to give them a try :V
Post by: Persus13 on July 03, 2021, 11:30:30 am
Post by: Jopax on July 05, 2021, 10:00:54 am
Did a Malagor ME start and holy shit is it bad. Your economy is shit, your early units are shit, you can't really camp out and build up your horde without getting attrition on your ass, nobody really likes you. I almost immediately lost my second starting army because by the time I had a decent stack going on it (since you can't really afford a full stack, nor recruit it in a reasonable time at first) I was met by a full greenskin stack of savage orks, which aren't the best melee units around, but they're a shitton better than the stuff you can get early on.
They have so few buildings as well, not that you'll be able to build them all anytime soon but it's kinda pitiful to have less choice than a bloody minor settlement of certain factions, ditto for the tech tree.
Can't believe this shit could pass as ok for the asking price when you compare it to something like the TK or VC faction DLC's.
Post by: angelious on July 05, 2021, 10:16:13 am
So I got the beastmen DLC and figured, while I wait I might see what the big fuss was about.
Did a Malagor ME start and holy shit is it bad. Your economy is shit, your early units are shit, you can't really camp out and build up your horde without getting attrition on your ass, nobody really likes you. I almost immediately lost my second starting army because by the time I had a decent stack going on it (since you can't really afford a full stack, nor recruit it in a reasonable time at first) I was met by a full greenskin stack of savage orks, which aren't the best melee units around, but they're a shitton better than the stuff you can get early on.
They have so few buildings as well, not that you'll be able to build them all anytime soon but it's kinda pitiful to have less choice than a bloody minor settlement of certain factions, ditto for the tech tree.
Can't believe this shit could pass as ok for the asking price when you compare it to something like the TK or VC faction DLC's.
they were still learning how to build the game. plus i heard they ran out of Charlemagne's mid production...
Post by: scriver on July 05, 2021, 11:41:06 am
Post by: Jopax on July 05, 2021, 11:49:04 am
@angelious, sure, but in that case it's a bit shit that it took them this long to rectify that.
I will say tho, there is some enjoyment in the constant tension of barely scraping trough every single turn and having to figure out and pick your battles as opposed to just roflstomping everything with your LL and his posse of shieldmaidens :V
I do feel that will not last forever tho and that it'll get frustrating relatively quick.
Post by: angelious on July 05, 2021, 12:26:52 pm
A meme about certain monsters that they're introducing now would've cost more than the entire Charlemange DLC for Atilla.
@angelious, sure, but in that case it's a bit shit that it took them this long to rectify that.
I will say tho, there is some enjoyment in the constant tension of barely scraping trough every single turn and having to figure out and pick your battles as opposed to just roflstomping everything with your LL and his posse of shieldmaidens :V
I do feel that will not last forever tho and that it'll get frustrating relatively quick.
fair,but they did have a lot on their plate i suppose. a lot of the dlc factions were disliked, and a lot of the original factions needed reworks too.
dwarves still need a rework imo. and some people are claiming vampire counts are lagging behind as well..but idk about that.
Post by: nenjin on July 05, 2021, 01:14:32 pm
I remember in one game I made my way through the Badlands and pissed off Grimgor but kinda left them behind as I made it into the Northern mountains. Then dozens of turns later Orks just started appearing, multiple armies, giving chase across the entirety of Sylvania, the Empire....it was nuts. They almost ran to me Altdorf before they eventually gave up.
Playing old Beefmen is like being a homeless Jason Bourne in ME. You're constantly on the move, surrounded by people that want to kill you and hiding in plain sight often while enemies circle around you; like pulling into an alleyway and turning off the lights during a car chase.
It sucked but I won't lie, I might miss it just a little bit. You really feel like you accomplished something in old Beefmen when you managed to wipe out a major faction with just two garbage armies.
Post by: Mech#4 on July 05, 2021, 01:55:25 pm
I think the Vampire Counts A.I. mostly just needs a bit of a wake up. They used to take over large parts of the Empire but were calmed down a while ago. Making them a bit more aggressive again would help. Though I think there's also issues with their mostly chaff armies being outclassed by Empire and Dwarfen units nearby.
Post by: Persus13 on July 05, 2021, 02:18:09 pm
Quote
Jabberslythe (Monster) – a powerful, horrifying fusion of toad, sludge-drake, and insect. Area of effect attacks, debuffs, and worth as much as a Charlemagne.Beastman was the first ever new faction DLC they released for Warhammer, so they definitely have learned a lot since then.
At least in my games the Vampire Counts generally give the Empire a good fight for the Old World. It also felt like they got a lot of love over the course of both games, so not getting any attention recently hasn't hurt them much imo.
Post by: angelious on July 05, 2021, 02:50:27 pm
also i loved the ambush mechanics with beastmen...the map layout was fun, and i never got bored of ambushing imperial armies and just watching my herd run out of the forest and into their unprotected flank.
it was cinematic in a way...
Post by: LordPorkins on July 10, 2021, 09:21:07 pm
vc tends to get curbstomped in my games. usually being one of the first factions to die alongside beastmen.
Yeah. I've noticed that the AI Empire factions (quite smartly) will rush and build up Outriders early game. The AI doesn't use skirmishers super well, but they are even worse at countering it. Outriders crush AI counts early game.
Post by: Jopax on July 14, 2021, 01:57:47 pm
Even early game, he's capable of making the t1 shitty spell Flock of Doom into a monster of a siege spell, my most recent siege was of Karak Eight Peaks, some 3500 orks versus my 1700 beasty boys, tho, most of those were irrelevant as Malagor, on his own managed to do some 120k damage and kill around 1200 orks. It took a while, but boy when that grinder starts going, it really goes to town.
Plus, I'm not sure if there's a targeting bug going on or there was some weird unit placement fuckery going on, but multiple times the spell went off on units that were clearly outside of the AoE that I placed down.
And this is before I've gotten the bastard leveled up enough to grab some of the really broken stuff that makes his spells even cheaper.
That said, I fear he might have the opposite problem from before, that he's so stupid strong it makes the campaign a touch too easy and boring. This might just be because orks aren't exactly the strongest counters to beastmen and folks like the Empire or HE might prove more difficult, so we'll see.
Post by: nenjin on July 14, 2021, 02:18:01 pm
Watching LotW, he just used all stalking units and let Malagor vaporize everything. It kinda sucked the fun out of it IMO. He was like "Yeah, now you're encouraged to use all the units and build whatever army you want!!!111"
50 turns later he has the same units he started the game with because "I don't need them, I have Malagor."
Post by: Persus13 on July 14, 2021, 04:22:36 pm
Post by: nenjin on July 14, 2021, 04:29:07 pm
And since there are literally no downsides to giving Beastmen the Sword of Khaine, if you drop that on him he is basically unkillable at that point AND gets more AoE to mop up battles faster.
Like, I'm glad he's stronger. But it seems like too much. Simply not giving him Winds of Magic cost reductions so Flock of Doom isn't basically infinitely castable would be a good first step.
Heh, I'm watching a LotW one man Doomstack video featuring Malagor right now, and he's just pimp slapping Black Dragons out of the air.
Disgustin'!
Post by: angelious on July 15, 2021, 08:55:09 am
If you know the ways of the cheese, Malagor may be one of the best Legendary Lords in the game now. His only real weakness is that he's a shit fighter and doesn't do well against single and large entities. So I suppose if you're going up against an army with a lot of flying units that can attack Malagor, or lots of single entities, he's not great. But in pretty much all other circumstances he's unstoppable. Even an army with a shitload of ranged can't really hurt him because he's so fast and so small that he can just dodge most missiles, and use the Herdstone abilities to delete the enemy army ammunition. Add in some missile resistance and he can laugh off an entire army of ranged attackers.
And since there are literally no downsides to giving Beastmen the Sword of Khaine, if you drop that on him he is basically unkillable at that point AND gets more AoE to mop up battles faster.
Like, I'm glad he's stronger. But it seems like too much. Simply not giving him Winds of Magic cost reductions so Flock of Doom isn't basically infinitely castable would be a good first step.
Heh, I'm watching a LotW one man Doomstack video featuring Malagor right now, and he's just pimp slapping Black Dragons out of the air.
Disgustin'!
casters are always op and capable of soloing armies.
but idk if i would call malagor the best lord. you also need to look at the campaign and unit buffs he gives, outside of his own killing power.
alariel, ikit, and vc lords are the ones i usually see when people talk about "the best lords in the game"
since they have the same op spell casting that malagor has, but they also bring in loads of buffs to their units, alongside with getting good single targetting spells and decent survivability and shit.
Post by: nenjin on July 15, 2021, 09:52:05 am
Considering you have to level most Lords to 10+ before they can even get a mount, which is required if you want your caster to live through the battle while dishing out spells constantly, that puts Malagor significantly ahead of most other legendary lords. And he kinda only just gets better as you round out his skills at what he already does: fling tons of magic, and be untouchable by 90% of damage.
Post by: umiman on July 16, 2021, 10:27:34 am
In MP people already spec to deal with flying unit nonsense anyway. It wouldn't be a concern as a single net or some other flying units would wipe Malagor off the map.
Post by: Jopax on July 17, 2021, 05:09:54 am
Because it's not just Malagor, tho he's the most glaring example, any bray shaman with the beast lore can do almost as much horrible things to any infantry heavy army. I'm not sure if traitor-kin was this stupid before but it's essentially a flock of doom except better.
No idea if you can view the actual numbers for both skills anywhere, but from what I've seen in combat, flock of doom has a high chance of affecting the target but it deals fairly low damage over a short period of time, so you generally need at least 3 casts on a healthy unit to see any models going down, even if the entire unit is stuck at a third of their max hp. Traitor-kin on the other hand seems to do stupid high damage but has a lower chance of actually hitting, I've seen it start racking up kills on the first cast, and this was fairly significant numbers of dead units, only to see it fall off as their numbers got reduced.
And as nenjin pointed out above, it's not just that he's bonkers strong, the big part of the issue is that unlike cheese and doomstacks other races get, Malagor gets to roll over shit after a few turns only since you only really need to upgrade flock of doom itself and then rush the first cost reduction skill.
Post by: nenjin on July 17, 2021, 12:04:37 pm
Prior to the update, Traitor Kin was basically worthless. The damage was completely aenemic. Now, while it’s not Wind of Death or Burning Skull, it will destroy any single infantry unit in a couple casts. Get enough Winds together, enough cast cost reduction and a few Bray Shaman, and it is quite effective for not having to be aimed and not running a foul of movement.
Post by: dragdeler on July 17, 2021, 12:34:50 pm
Post by: nenjin on July 17, 2021, 01:00:18 pm
When I’m back in town I’ll try the fight again. I imagine flying back and forth in front of their army, rather than circling over it, will cause way more of their shots to miss.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 15, 2021, 12:28:45 am
It's interesting because Cathay was a faction that never had any real development back in Warhammer TT. No models and very little lore to work off of so all this is new stuff coming from Games Workshop and Creative Assembly.
The Dawn of Grand Cathay trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=033FWxL22A0 The Dawn of Grand Cathay trailer)
FAQ about Grand Cathay (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-grand-cathay-faq/ FAQ about Grand Cathay)
Apparently they're going to focus on disciplined troops, ranged and magic, though with a lack of cavalry and being rather slow. Also Dragon Legendary Lords.
Post by: Persus13 on September 15, 2021, 08:22:55 am
The main new thing I got from the Tzeentch armies were guys on flying disks. So I'm curious if someone with better eyes saw anything else. (Also a Lord of Change obviously, but Total War's had those since 1).
Post by: Jopax on September 15, 2021, 02:35:31 pm
Also the delay was pretty much inevitable, the game was due in less than a month and we've barely seen 2 factions so far, they would've been hyping shit up way more if they were planning to release it anytime soon.
Either way, cool stuff, not too bothered with the wait since there's a shitton of other stuff in my backlog, plus WH2 is still fun to fire up from time to time and I still haven't touched a number of factions/lords.
Post by: Mech#4 on September 16, 2021, 12:37:18 am
Your links and titles are backwards btw.
The main new thing I got from the Tzeentch armies were guys on flying disks. So I'm curious if someone with better eyes saw anything else. (Also a Lord of Change obviously, but Total War's had those since 1).
Thank you. Shows how long it's been since I've done links.
I think from various screenshots shown around, as well as the trailer, Tzeentch forces show the disks, Pink and Blue Horrors, Flamers, Screamers, Tzeentch Soul Grinder, as well as some tzeentch themed chaos spawn and forsaken.
The Lord of Change in the trailer I believe is Kairos Fateweaver, the two-headed Lord of Change.
Screenshot 1 (https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/UMod5ai5a2uJEox7BYyLdg-1200-80.jpg)
Screenshot 2 (https://www.ungeek.ph/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/total_war_warhammer_3_grand_cathay.jpg)
Screenshot 3 (https://assets2.rockpapershotgun.com/total-war-warhammer-3-grand-cathay-battle.jpg/BROK/resize/1920x1920%3E/format/jpg/quality/80/total-war-warhammer-3-grand-cathay-battle.jpg)
Post by: nenjin on September 16, 2021, 09:54:15 am
Post by: scriver on September 16, 2021, 09:58:59 am
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on September 16, 2021, 10:07:11 am
Post by: scriver on September 16, 2021, 10:10:22 am
The giant statues in the trailer and screenshots are terracotta soldiers, though I wouldn't be surprised if in the future we'd get smaller versions as DLC.
Haha I was going to say "but maybe the giant guys are terracotta golems" so hey I guess I wasn't entirely wrong ;)
A Cathay-version of a Vampire Count or probably more likely Mummy Lord (I can't remember the name right now) with Terracotta soldiers would be cool too.
Post by: Persus13 on September 16, 2021, 11:00:18 am
Post by: LordPorkins on September 16, 2021, 07:22:51 pm
Generally in fiction the Lord of Change is always two-headed now. Back in the day the model had one head but now I think it pretty much always features two.Pretty sure Kairos is the only two-headed one. At least for Warhammer Fantasy. I dunno what age of Sigmar is doing
Post by: nenjin on September 16, 2021, 07:28:53 pm
Post by: LordPorkins on September 16, 2021, 07:32:03 pm
Ah. I've seen the name in 40k before, and 40k is mostly my bag so that's what I was (silently) referencing. I'm pretty outta touch with WFH and AoS lore. But in 40k, it's a widely used image for Lords of Change.
Same.
Post by: scriver on September 17, 2021, 10:15:20 am
Generally in fiction the Lord of Change is always two-headed now. Back in the day the model had one head but now I think it pretty much always features two.Pretty sure Kairos is the only two-headed one. At least for Warhammer Fantasy. I dunno what age of Sigmar is doing
Think of it. Two heads. Four oversized pauldrons.
Maybe more
Imagine
Post by: nenjin on September 17, 2021, 10:45:02 am
Post by: Grim Portent on September 17, 2021, 11:55:09 am
Ah. I've seen the name in 40k before, and 40k is mostly my bag so that's what I was (silently) referencing. I'm pretty outta touch with WFH and AoS lore. But in 40k, it's a widely used image for Lords of Change.
It's only Kairos that has two heads in all three settings. Generic Lords of Change and even the other named one all have one head in models, fluff and art.
If a LoC with two heads appears in official material, it's Kairos.
Much like Karanak, being multi-headed is his defining visual characteristic.
Post by: nenjin on September 17, 2021, 12:14:36 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on September 17, 2021, 02:46:19 pm
Outside of Kairos and Galrauch, the first chaos dragon, named Tzeentchian stuff tends to go for extra limbs, eyes and/or mouths rather than more heads. Lords of Change are strangely rather mundane looking things, being pretty much 1-1 translations of Vrocks from D&D aesthetically. No extra limbs, no extra mouths, occasionally extra eyes buts that's about it.
Post by: nenjin on September 17, 2021, 03:34:09 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on September 18, 2021, 03:04:05 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on September 22, 2021, 02:30:12 am
Blog Post about Cathay (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-grand-cathay-lore/)
Warhammer Community post about Cathay and units (https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/09/21/read-the-official-background-for-total-war-warhammer-iiis-most-deadly-units/)
Post by: Jopax on October 11, 2021, 06:19:58 pm
Looks ok I guess, certainly more involved and complex than what we've had before. But it all comes down to how/if the AI will handle the stuff, as the biggest problem of the first two games was the AI being pants-on-head retarded when it came to sieges and stupidly easy to cheese with minimal effort. If the AI is just as bad then all the cool stuff they're doing with the maps and supplies mean fuck all in the end. Also here's to hoping they don't make them too much of a slog, having to fight hour+ sieges every time sounds like it could get old rather fast :V
It's good to know they're not leaving the old races behind tho, that should breathe in some freshness into pretty much every part of the ME map.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 11, 2021, 06:48:49 pm
Post by: dragdeler on October 13, 2021, 11:46:20 am
Did y'all see though, release date on steam got postponed to 2022.
Post by: Persus13 on October 13, 2021, 06:02:53 pm
Post by: Mech#4 on October 13, 2021, 10:56:25 pm
Leading Grand Cathay – how the Eastern Empire dominates on the campaign map (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-grand-cathay-campaign-mechanics/)
Post by: Persus13 on October 15, 2021, 09:59:44 am
Main takeaway looks like Tzeentch gets a book currency that can be used to do sneaky things like manipulate other factions into declaring war on each other, lift the fog of war, or transfer ownership of a settlement. His armies can also teleport and ambush armies, once you get a specific tech.
There's also some cult mechanics for Chaos in general that look interesting. Don't know if those got revealed before, but if your god's corruption is dominant in a region you get to build a building there even if you don't control the region, similar to Undercities or pirate coves.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on October 15, 2021, 10:07:51 am
Hopefully they give significant costs and/or cooldowns to some of these mechanics, because transferring settlements and teleportation forcing ambush battles both sound potent.
Post by: Persus13 on October 15, 2021, 10:18:51 am
Teleporting ambush battles costs you winds of magic and is a late game thing for Tzeentch.
Post by: FantasticDorf on October 15, 2021, 10:25:31 am
Post by: scriver on November 04, 2021, 11:05:17 am
Post by: FantasticDorf on November 04, 2021, 12:47:50 pm
(probably deliberate), much of what confirmed when corroborated with promo screenshots
Post by: Persus13 on November 18, 2021, 10:59:06 am
The leaked gameplay trailer Dorf linked got fully released, and yesterday they released this blog (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-ogre-kingdoms-roster-reveal/) talking about the Ogre Kingdoms army roster, and another one (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-ogre-legendary-lord-mechanics-greasus-skrag/) talking about campaign mechanics today.
Then there's this blog post (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/total-war-warhammer-3-quality-of-life-updates/) and video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOJLmVnFmhc)talking about the improvements to battles. Nothing spectacularly different, mainly QoL stuff like saving your starting battle formation in campaign, lines at 25,50,and 75% health, and an idle units hot key. Biggest changes I saw was flying units have the ability to toggle landing or not, and magic resistance is being changed to just be against spells to make magic attacks actually be a buff (although that second one has been public knowledge for awhile).
And then today there's a new trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnIEzBpsfDE) featuring the Nurgle and Slaanesh factions duking it out. Any Warhammer lore folks able to tell me who laughing green throne guy and giant purple crabclaw guy are?
The Slaanesh spikey chariots and Nurgle's aerial wasp cavalry look pretty neat. I'm going to have a hard time deciding which faction to play first. The marketing's doing a good job of making them all look really cool.
Post by: Grim Portent on November 18, 2021, 11:20:14 am
And then today there's a new trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnIEzBpsfDE) featuring the Nurgle and Slaanesh factions duking it out. Any Warhammer lore folks able to tell me who laughing green throne guy and giant purple crabclaw guy are?
Most likely Ku'Gath and N'Kari.
Ku'Gath is Nurgle's favorite Great Unclean One, originally a nurgling who fell into Nurgle's most potent disease ever brewed, drank it all and turned into a GUO. Nurgle found it funny and is fine with it, but Ku'Gath feels bad for destroying Nurgle's best work and is trying to recreate it by experimenting on mortals and recording the results. He's normally carried everywhere by nurglings on a palanquin, but as with Greasus Goldtooth's gnoblar borne palanquin that probably would be too hard to animate so they've gone for a floating throne thing.
N'Kari is the strongest of the Keepers of Secrets, greatest enemy of the elves and generally kind of a dick. I think they're meant to be trapped in the vortex at the moment, but they're one of the only important KoS in the entire franchise, so it's probably them.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on November 18, 2021, 12:22:35 pm
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on November 24, 2021, 10:45:40 am
Apparently the nurglings use new technology to operate as swarms, which is why Ku'Gath has his palanquin but Greasus does not. I honestly expected the nurglings to be upscaled to goblin-size instead of what we're getting.
Post by: Astral on November 24, 2021, 12:23:34 pm
Enter the World of Nurgle Trailer (https://youtu.be/oGf5q_4Jxhs)
Apparently the nurglings use new technology to operate as swarms, which is why Ku'Gath has his palanquin but Greasus does not. I honestly expected the nurglings to be upscaled to goblin-size instead of what we're getting.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/302448/regarding-the-new-swarm-tech
Unfortunately looks like just animation rather than any real change in behavior for the units. It still looks amazing though.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on November 24, 2021, 12:48:41 pm
Post by: scriver on December 05, 2021, 11:54:32 am
Post by: dragdeler on December 06, 2021, 10:16:00 am
Post by: Persus13 on January 19, 2022, 10:15:15 am
I realized today that this game comes out in under month now.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on January 19, 2022, 10:59:12 am
Post by: nenjin on January 19, 2022, 12:37:51 pm
Goddamnit, I was ready to write WH3 off for a couple years. But the customizable Daemon Prince....Chaos was my faction of choice in tabletop and this is seriously tempting me.
But Elden Ring comes out the same month so it's not that hard of a choice. But the shit looks super cool.
That said...I don't like the new UI look. Everything looks very large and chunky.
And watching Legend cheese enemy ammo using Horrors with a regenerating barrier.....good lord, the disaster battles are going to take like an hour now.
Post by: Egan_BW on January 19, 2022, 02:46:13 pm
Post by: Jopax on January 20, 2022, 09:45:36 am
Post by: nenjin on January 20, 2022, 11:34:10 am
But getting to the realms of Chaos with your hand built daemon prince, honoring the gods you chose to support? That sounds like a campaign worth playing. Because that LL won't show up in ME I don't think, it's probably the only way you'll be able to play them.
Post by: dragdeler on January 21, 2022, 10:28:46 am
I'm not too hyped about chaos itself might play it one day but fine... All factions on the whole map though? I might just play a campaign as the empire once the game drops, there is still a few factions i haven't tried out yet that are kind of vanilla. It's the scale and the variety that really attract me.
Post by: LordPorkins on January 22, 2022, 06:47:25 pm
TBH, I'm actually interested in the campaign in TWH3. The Vortex campaign in TW2, I couldn't care less about. Nothing about it seemed cool.
But getting to the realms of Chaos with your hand built daemon prince, honoring the gods you chose to support? That sounds like a campaign worth playing. Because that LL won't show up in ME I don't think, it's probably the only way you'll be able to play them.
Seems like CA learned the lesson with new campaign. A lot less timers and weird stuff you *HAVE* to do to win.
Post by: dragdeler on February 11, 2022, 05:02:14 pm
will it release within a week? feels unreal, I wasn't overhyped but the thought makes me giddy
I'd be down to do an online campaign if someone wants to.
Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2022, 05:06:54 pm
I'm hoping the launch goes well. Excited to try out the new factions (thinking Khorne will be my first playthrough), and the multiplayer campaign improvements they've been discussing look neat (up to 8 players, option to have simultaneous turns, multiplayer only campaign options besides the main campaign)
Post by: dragdeler on February 11, 2022, 05:13:39 pm
(up to 8 players, option to have simultaneous turns, multiplayer only campaign options besides the main campaign)
THEY. ACTUALLY. DID?
They wouldn't would they? Fuck yeeeaaaaassssssssss.
Post by: Persus13 on February 11, 2022, 06:01:31 pm
Post by: Empty on February 11, 2022, 06:56:02 pm
Post by: dragdeler on February 11, 2022, 07:10:28 pm
Post by: Jopax on February 13, 2022, 01:47:20 pm
Also really liking the extra stuff they've tossed in without telling anyone about it, sure most of it has been discovered by folks with EA by now but it's nice to now that they've put in all this extra effort for no extra cost, stuff that could've easily been portioned off into DLC packs.
Still not sure if I'll be getting it on release tho :V
Post by: Persus13 on February 13, 2022, 02:04:11 pm
In 2 there's the option for playing coop or head2head in multiplayer campaign, and it sounds like with 3 its one mode that can be either/or, which is definitely an improvement imo, since sometimes you want to team up, and then fight at the end or something. The expansion to 8 players also opens up more options since it was just 2 players in the previous game. Although I only have two friends I play Warhammer 2 with, so I'm eyeing up that Kislev campaign that's a bite size three player experience.
Post by: dragdeler on February 14, 2022, 01:10:20 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2022, 01:22:53 pm
Since I finished the prologue I've been rampaging around as Exiles of Khorne. Running around the world razing everything is pretty fun, and I'm enjoying the incentives to constantly be razing settlements, fighting battles, and having no regard for the safety of my Blood Host armies. No archers or magic can occasionally be a little bit of a drag, but stuff like the army abilities on the battlemap make up for it once you research certain techs.
My main complaint about the game at this point is that selecting stuff on the campaign map can be a bit finnicky. I've occasionally sent an army behind an enemy instead of attacking it, or selected a settlement behind an army instead of the army. There's also a ton of UI QoL improvements, but occasionally there's some changes that I don't see the benefit of, like the esc menu.
Post by: dragdeler on February 18, 2022, 05:50:59 pm
This campaign... ugh idk... so much spam. Takes me 6 turns to hunt down annoyances that keep trolling me, in the meantime I'm issued 3 new missions, and offered I don't know how many trade agreements, defensive alliances, and military access etc. I played what, 30 turns. I feel like I'm in way too deep, sheesh calm the fuck down game.
I have 10 missions outstanding, allies stretching each way to the horizon, built and outpost that I don't know what it's for, and now my main army is in the chaos and I'm allready kind of annoyed at watching the mapcamera travel a lot while I click through my spam at the start of each turn.
Post by: Persus13 on February 18, 2022, 06:02:45 pm
Post by: Nelia Hawk on February 19, 2022, 03:49:25 am
even against khorne, i had a fight against basically mostly 100 armor chaos warriors and they got dissected by daemonettes... and somehow my mage even got 280 kills.
with the fast infantry i could use terrain really well to my advantage... so much that my army ended up "deploying" on the enemy half of the map before the fight broke out.
also the cult and gift of slaneesh mechanics i like alot :D spreading it everywhere in the human empires is fun.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 19, 2022, 05:54:16 pm
First run went badly, as I kind of leapt in without knowing how to play the daemons and got screwed over and wound up lagging too far behind in the campaign. Focused on Khorne units with Tzeentch support, which worked ok but not amazing and by the time I got a strong infrastructure set up it was too late.
Second run focused on Tzeentch in the early game, spent most of the game using Tzeentch gifts to get magic, added some Khorne units to replace Forsaken as my meat shields, made better use of allied recruits. Wound up getting some plagueclaw catapults from the Skaven to give me some strong ranged weapons while I was still waiting on getting soul grinders and skull cannons, and some skinwolves and then mammoths to serve as monsters. Wound up keeping the plagueclaws and a hellpit abomination right through to the final battle.
Was amused that Zuvassin makes an appearance in a random event. He's one of the rogue chaos gods that hasn't been mentioned since the 80s.
Post by: LordPorkins on February 20, 2022, 08:40:31 pm
Was amused that Zuvassin makes an appearance in a random event. He's one of the rogue chaos gods that hasn't been mentioned since the 80s.Next thing you know they're gonna drop Malal on us.
Post by: The_Explorer on February 21, 2022, 01:06:53 am
I couldn't play ultra unit size on my video card on warhammer 2 no matter how much I dropped the graphics settings, without seeing lag
whatever they did, they did amazing
RX 480 4gb card btw. Maybe its not a POS and others just have really really bad GPUs (it is theoretically comparable to a nvidia GTX 1060 as far as I know), but the 4gb vram REALLY hurts it in most modern games
Post by: dragdeler on February 21, 2022, 06:49:15 am
So, ursun roars 4 times right? Will I be able to still save him if I slip into my fourth chaos realm a few days before the rifts close? I'm pretty sure they don't kick you out until you got your deamon prince soul, but what will happen after the 4th? Can I trigger the forge of souls myself, will I be teleported there anyway or am I screwed?
Post by: scriver on February 21, 2022, 09:00:20 am
Post by: dragdeler on February 21, 2022, 09:14:20 am
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure you can't even pick norsca atm, eventhough they are very much on the map.
Post by: Nelia Hawk on February 21, 2022, 10:34:23 am
Kislev, Cathay, Ogres, Deamons Undivided, Khorne, Slaneesh, Nurgle, Tzeench.
and the main campaign mechanics and victory conditions involve these 8 factions.
but on the map are alot of other factions: empire, vampires, wood elves, norsca, dvarves, skaven so there is still alot of variety to fight against. (i even saw some high elves in a character quest battle)
in total there are around ~106 factions on the map. that is whats shown in the end turn number.
Post by: nenjin on February 21, 2022, 10:41:59 am
Post by: Persus13 on February 21, 2022, 11:01:49 am
Mortal Empires wasn't available at Warhammer 2's launch either, and when it did launch for 2 it came without Norsca because of some internal coding issues. It sounds like they've fixed the latter issue, but like nenjin said there's probably going to be some slow reworking of things even once it releases.
The main factions I haven't seen in 3 are Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast. You fight dark elves in the ocean treasure battles (although they seem to have imported the flavor text of vampire coast from 2 without changing it), and there's lizardmen on the islands in the south east of the map.
I haven't seen Throgg or Wulfric at all, but the map does contain their previous starts from 1 and 2. I've seen Throt, Karl Franz, Ungrim, and Mannfred in the game already but not playable. It would be cool if they were playable at some point on the Warhammer III map.
So, ursun roars 4 times right? Will I be able to still save him if I slip into my fourth chaos realm a few days before the rifts close? I'm pretty sure they don't kick you out until you got your deamon prince soul, but what will happen after the 4th? Can I trigger the forge of souls myself, will I be teleported there anyway or am I screwed?I'm expecting him to roar until someone gets four souls. I do believe you get kicked out if the timer runs out, but I'm not certain. I've mainly just been kicked because another faction beat me to a soul.
Post by: Astral on February 21, 2022, 01:00:56 pm
3 overall is very slim on the unit rosters, and I'm not sure if that is a good or bad thing. You can even see directly in the UI what other factions rosters consist of.
Diplomacy is much improved - actually worth doing things other than war constantly.
Chaos realms are fun to fight in but AI seems to cheat even more than normal when it comes to moving through them. It's best to remember where the chaos gates spawn, as otherwise unless your lord is right there the turn they spawn you're likely going to lose the race.
Defensive battles are a lot of fun (especially minor settlements, which is nice as those were just unit slogs previously). Attackers are at a severe disadvantage under even a basic tower if you can hold an enemy off under it and use chokepoints well.
I do seem to get some massive framerate drops between turns at times, but otherwise relatively stable on an older 1070 with some settings turned down. The load times are pretty horrendous, even on an m.2 though (comparing to 2).
I did manage to hard lock myself out of the tutorial by deselecting a town when it popped up the "You must recruit a new lord" section.
Worth trying on GamePass if you have it, but I would recommend hold off on buying until it's had another year or two to iron out some of the bugs (and get more factions/content).
Post by: dragdeler on February 21, 2022, 01:15:01 pm
And I absolutely love that we can give settlements now. Dwarves are loyal so once you're on their good site you can litterally seal off annoying parts of the map. What I like less is that the game forces us now to balance offers... In most cases I can't just offer a treaty without any payments on top... It's silly you wait a few turns, now it's the AI that pays you for the same treaty.
Post by: nenjin on February 21, 2022, 01:34:33 pm
Post by: Persus13 on February 21, 2022, 01:56:24 pm
I haven't had much issue with replenishment since Khorne is all about spamming cheap armies and I have a ton of replenishment buffs, but Nurgle is very much a slow paced turtle faction, so I can see how that could be annoying.
Post by: Astral on February 21, 2022, 02:30:48 pm
The auto-resolve also doesn't seem to favor Nurgle very much. I've won a number of "defeats" with minimal losses, especially when defending. That may be partially due to the AI being dumb in the new siege battles though.
Post by: Nighthawk on February 21, 2022, 02:46:33 pm
A lot of people are mystified on why the performance has taken a nosedive; those who got pre-release copies were reporting that the game ran as well as, or better than WH2 on the campaign map, and suddenly that's changed for them after launch. Many have pointed fingers at the inclusion of Denuvo in the release version of the game, but it's uncertain. All we know is, between pre-release and release, something got screwed up for many users.
As for the main campaign, I've found it much slower--not necessarily bad--and a bit annoying. It feels like I'm heavily discouraged from doing the usual Warhammer thing of fighting wars and taking territories, because the more provinces I take the more chaos portals I have to play tag with. The most effective path to winning seems to be making friends with as many neighbors as possible to avoid war, then turtling with a single doomstack and casually waltzing into the chaos realms to claim souls and win the game.
Different isn't necessarily bad, but this new campaign feels like it's unnecessarily restrictive and generally not very Warhammer-y. I'll probably have to wait for Mortal Empires to be ported over before I can start having some real fun.
Post by: nenjin on February 21, 2022, 02:49:54 pm
Post by: dragdeler on February 21, 2022, 03:06:54 pm
Post by: Astral on February 21, 2022, 05:45:15 pm
The fact that it was pushed in last minute is pretty telling on how much they knew people would react to it.
Post by: Il Palazzo on February 21, 2022, 05:53:41 pm
As for the main campaign, I've found it much slower--not necessarily bad--and a bit annoying. It feels like I'm heavily discouraged from doing the usual Warhammer thing of fighting wars and taking territories, because the more provinces I take the more chaos portals I have to play tag with. The most effective path to winning seems to be making friends with as many neighbors as possible to avoid war, then turtling with a single doomstack and casually waltzing into the chaos realms to claim souls and win the game.Warhammer 3: Lovehammer
Post by: nenjin on February 21, 2022, 05:55:30 pm
As for the main campaign, I've found it much slower--not necessarily bad--and a bit annoying. It feels like I'm heavily discouraged from doing the usual Warhammer thing of fighting wars and taking territories, because the more provinces I take the more chaos portals I have to play tag with. The most effective path to winning seems to be making friends with as many neighbors as possible to avoid war, then turtling with a single doomstack and casually waltzing into the chaos realms to claim souls and win the game.Warhammer 3: Lovehammer
That over half of fights happen at settlements now seems to be kind of a drag to some people. Sieges and settlement defense in TWH2 are fun about every 10 turns or so. Them happening every turn would start to annoy me. But I'm guessing with the full ME campaign, we're going to see many areas squished tighter together.
Post by: Astral on February 21, 2022, 06:02:44 pm
The higher than before losses and slower replenishment rate mean that even if you wanted to paint the map it's going to be a much slower process.
Post by: Madman198237 on February 21, 2022, 06:16:30 pm
Going to have to make like 140 GB of space on my small internal SSD for this game, but the tiny amount of the prologue I managed to play made me want to play it. Guess I'll have to figure something out. I wonder what I even have still installed on the SSD...
Post by: Frumple on February 21, 2022, 06:36:36 pm
I'd be pretty interested to see what pirating 3 games worth of inter-linked DLCs looks like. Pirate the base game, sure, no sweat. Pirating the complete Total Warhammer experience? Is that even possible?Dunno why it wouldn't be, yar-haring DLC isn't exactly a new practice even when there's a pile of it. If someone can get the game data and crack/share it, that's all it takes. Most DLC isn't exactly some kind of magic devil trinket, pirating it works just like pirating any other sort of data.
Post by: nenjin on February 21, 2022, 06:43:59 pm
I have Gamepass, so I have WH3. And boy oh boy, I thought I knew what terrible load times look like. I literally cannot play this off of my EHD, three minutes to load a single settings change is two minutes and fifty-nine seconds too many. And it didn't even manage to load into the battle, I had to just kill the process after about five or ten minutes so that I could get on with my life.
Going to have to make like 140 GB of space on my small internal SSD for this game, but the tiny amount of the prologue I managed to play made me want to play it. Guess I'll have to figure something out. I wonder what I even have still installed on the SSD...
AAA games are swiftly reaching the point where SSDs are mandatory. Even on an SSD with plenty of memory, a good processor and graphics card, TWH2 campaigns still take about 1 to 2 mins to load.
Post by: MCreeper on February 21, 2022, 06:46:01 pm
More than that, yar-harred Warhammer 2 comes in one big package, all dlcs, Mortal Empires campaign and all. Update time to add new dlcs varies, up to few months. You asked for this. :PI'd be pretty interested to see what pirating 3 games worth of inter-linked DLCs looks like. Pirate the base game, sure, no sweat. Pirating the complete Total Warhammer experience? Is that even possible?Dunno why it wouldn't be, yar-haring DLC isn't exactly a new practice even when there's a pile of it. If someone can get the game data and crack/share it, that's all it takes. Most DLC isn't exactly some kind of magic devil trinket, pirating it works just like pirating any other sort of data.
Post by: nenjin on February 21, 2022, 07:37:29 pm
Post by: dragdeler on February 21, 2022, 08:11:11 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on February 21, 2022, 09:13:57 pm
Been getting a bunch of crashes now that I'm playing the Ogres, always on loading in combat maps, which was a glitch that popped up in previous intallments as I recall. I remember getting it a lot playing as Skarsnik. Didn't have any issues with Undivided, so it might be something to do with the maps in the empire/darklands/mourn region. Abandoned a run as Greasus that was going terribly to try Skrag, and have been having the same issue intermittently despite being a good chunk of the map away.
With a new faction under my belt I can't help but feel Chaos feels rather weak. My ogres are able to steamroll through swathes of the map much faster even with the difficulty bumped up, the core roster of Undivided being fragmented limits early recruitment options a bit too heavily imo. The mono-god factions might have a better time of it because of specific buffs to them, but as Undivided I felt less than impressed at most of the roster, but maybe I was suffering due to low magic reserves. Daemons getting stronger or weaker based on their magic supply is very lore accurate, but kind of a bummer when you're also getting used to the changes to how magic reserves work.
Post by: Empty on February 22, 2022, 01:56:39 am
Typical ms crap.
Post by: Nelia Hawk on February 22, 2022, 07:23:50 am
Playing defender is a blast - attacker not so much, especially when lacking ranged units capable of taking out those towers (even on minor settlements).
The higher than before losses and slower replenishment rate mean that even if you wanted to paint the map it's going to be a much slower process.
i have the feeling the makeshift towers you can build as defender for supplies are even better than the ones you get on walled settlements... what is very weird...
but maybe making wall towers 360° like the makeshift towers would be too strong?
the wall towers can be upgraded 3 times for better projectiles... i never fought in a place with maxed out wall towers... i really hope they way better than the makeshift ones. even the basic wall towers should be stronger than the buildable ones.
Post by: dragdeler on February 22, 2022, 07:59:11 am
Spoiler: sauce (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: more sauce but annoyingly big image (click to show/hide)
Post by: Persus13 on February 22, 2022, 02:08:42 pm
Skarbrand's ability to gain movement from winning battles can lead to him fighting a dozen battles a turn if you set it up right. Bloodthirsters and the lord version of Bloodthirsters are super fun units, and most of his roster I found pretty fun to utilize. You make a ton of money winning battles. I spent most of the campaign supposedly losing money, but since I was constantly winning battles or sacking settlements for cash I was fine.
Right now I'm thinking I'll try Cathay next. A non-demon faction with lots of ranged on the complete opposite side of the map seems like a good follow up from Khorne.
Post by: lemon10 on February 22, 2022, 06:01:30 pm
I have Gamepass, so I have WH3. And boy oh boy, I thought I knew what terrible load times look like. I literally cannot play this off of my EHD, three minutes to load a single settings change is two minutes and fifty-nine seconds too many. And it didn't even manage to load into the battle, I had to just kill the process after about five or ten minutes so that I could get on with my life.May I recommend the excellent and free WinDirStat (https://windirstat.net/), which breaks up the space everything uses into a pretty picture so you can quantify exactly how much space everything takes up and if you say, accidently have 25 gigs of anime on your SSD instead of on your HHD where it belongs.
Going to have to make like 140 GB of space on my small internal SSD for this game, but the tiny amount of the prologue I managed to play made me want to play it. Guess I'll have to figure something out. I wonder what I even have still installed on the SSD...
Post by: axiomsofdominion on February 22, 2022, 07:18:41 pm
I have Gamepass, so I have WH3. And boy oh boy, I thought I knew what terrible load times look like. I literally cannot play this off of my EHD, three minutes to load a single settings change is two minutes and fifty-nine seconds too many. And it didn't even manage to load into the battle, I had to just kill the process after about five or ten minutes so that I could get on with my life.May I recommend the excellent and free WinDirStat (https://windirstat.net/), which breaks up the space everything uses into a pretty picture so you can quantify exactly how much space everything takes up and if you say, accidently have 25 gigs of anime on your SSD instead of on your HHD where it belongs.
Going to have to make like 140 GB of space on my small internal SSD for this game, but the tiny amount of the prologue I managed to play made me want to play it. Guess I'll have to figure something out. I wonder what I even have still installed on the SSD...
WinDirStat is a great tool. Love it so much.
Post by: dragdeler on February 23, 2022, 04:48:42 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
update:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I do not like this cheese, I do not like it at all. They do appear to stop spawning but what that graph doesn't tell you about the leftovers is that they include 4-5 healthy soul striders :(. Had I managed to get rid of the flying units without losing all zones at one point, I probably could have cheesed it out. I spent 3-4 hours on 2 attempts tonight -.-. Maybe I just reload and go there with a doomstack of spear ice guards, that might help... I don't like this battle.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 23, 2022, 07:41:15 pm
The final wave thrashed me in my first attempt as Undivided, but I found that pushing everything except a handful of units left at the first capture point to hold off the trickle of reinforcements from the bottom of the map up to the end zone to fight the last wave worked. Course I had fliers to take the fight to the air, which Kislev doesn't have the option of.
I think you kind of have to spend some time building up points to call in reinforcements before triggering the final fight though, not long, just until the extra points for holding the most recent capture point stop coming in. Towers and barriers are only useful for the first capture point, the other two don't really benefit because of the layout, but extra troops are always useful and were instrumental in my fight.
Specifically I left something like four Khorne Warriors w/shields and four pink horrors to hold the line against the endless spawns from the bottom, backed by towers and barriers. Everything else, including most of the reinforcement units I could spawn fought through to the second capture point, then on to the third for the final showdown. I wasn't well equipped to kill Soul Grinders though, so they were a slog to get through each time they showed up.
Post by: Persus13 on February 24, 2022, 12:25:17 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mech#4 on February 24, 2022, 01:53:27 am
As well as calling in reinforcements, there's a button on the lower U.I. that allows you to teleport a unit out and have them replenish so you can call them back in again later at full strength.
Edit: Ah, the Forge of Souls battle. I was talking about the survival battles.
Post by: dragdeler on February 24, 2022, 05:12:16 am
But the third zone is so mean, i need all my ranged on be'lakor and then the game just keeps spawning shit monsters in the middle of them.
I will have to look after this replenish function probably the single reason I wasted so much time on this i bet they even comeback with ammo.
Still a stupid battle that'll waste your time, it's not obvious the first time where they'll come from.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 25, 2022, 01:00:41 pm
*Because of all the relationship boosting mechanics some of the chaos factions have in this game, and the bonuses for all being at war with Kislev and Cathay and various rogue armies the various daemons all become friends after a while and focus on the rest of the world. Despite some early squabbling with two generic factions and some back and forth with N'Kari I'm now friends with every chaos faction and have a single nice developed province to equip Skarbrand's army with. When the expanded map comes out I think we're going to see an actual massive war between Order and Chaos.
EDIT: Finished my Skarbrand game. Nearly got beaten to the finish line by Cathay, but I was able to pull the trigger on a cult in their lands to start sabotaging them at the source while I gathered my final soul. The final battle itself was strangely easy, considering my strategy had become simply mobbing my enemy one by one. Probably the great weapon minotaurs, they seem to hit like a truck.
Post by: dragdeler on February 28, 2022, 08:00:11 pm
Though... I got my dose like, I could go for mortal empires now, but the chaos stuff gets old quick.
Post by: Grim Portent on February 28, 2022, 08:08:10 pm
Well, I just powered through an ogre campaign in what seems little time. They're kind of OP, it's funny. Man I haven't even tried all units yet.
Though... I got my dose like, I could go for mortal empires now, but the chaos stuff gets old quick.
Greasus or Skrag?
I've still not gone back and finished my ogre game, but they were feeling really good at taking on the realms of chaos battles, and the AI really doesn't know how to respond to units with stalk in siege battles.
Post by: Persus13 on February 28, 2022, 11:53:09 pm
Post by: dragdeler on March 01, 2022, 04:45:37 am
But I think the most broken thing about ogres is how they can just slap down camps, they must be terrifying in MP campaigns if somebody wants to troll hard. I put one camp between 4 cities that I razed between rift 2 and 3... They just stayed ruins until the end of the game. But it's probably very powerful to pick a good province cram all your camps in there, then harass the world through rifts.
I'll probably play a bit on my 2 finished campaigns rather than starting a third one, there is still stuff to try out and after the campaign, rifts can be closed forever. But if I did start a new campaign, I'd probably go for khorne, or nurgle, or tzeentch, or slanesh? eh. Chaos undivided? I think I'm gonna just check off achievements with my oger game instead...
Post by: Mech#4 on April 06, 2022, 01:58:54 am
- Numerous crash fixes and performance optimizations
- A major overhaul of the Realm of Chaos mechanics
- A much-anticipated fix for a bugged interaction between the Everlasting Gift tech and Gift of Slaneesh upgrade
- A fix to ensure that Supply Lines values update properly when disbanding a Lord
- Fixes for numerous issues blocking players from completing the Prologue
- A one-on-one training montage to bulk up The Daemon Prince (aka “Daniel”)
- Major adjustments to the Daemons of Chaos Gifts and Gift Sets
- The first improvements to unit responsiveness (with more coming later)
- Units must now brace against a charging attacker for Charge Reflection to take effect
- Balance updates for most factions and several faction-specific units
- Two returning Domination battlefields: Arnheim and Battle for Itza
- Major updates to the Domination multiplayer mode: including larger starting armies and an update to supply mechanics
Link to Total War blog with full patch notes. (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tw-warhammer3-update110/)
Link to video outlining the major changes. (https://youtu.be/IODeKAX60Bk)
The charge fix is one of the major ones for me, since it affected the Slaanesh chariots a lot. There's also a lot of buffs for the Daemon Prince Daniel, who many were saying had rather low stats to begin with and a bunch of the blessing gear he could get were a bit underwhelming. Also a fix for his max tier Undivided item bonuses I believe.
Post by: scriver on April 06, 2022, 03:13:02 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 06, 2022, 05:01:19 am
Post by: Mech#4 on April 06, 2022, 06:37:39 am
I've always taken braced to mean the unit is completely stationary. In the historical games, units would lower their spears when braced but that doesn't happen in Warhammer.
Post by: Nighthawk on April 12, 2022, 02:03:54 pm
Post by: nenjin on April 13, 2022, 11:45:06 am
And I think a lot of people aren't really going to care until ME comes out. (I know I won't.)
Post by: scriver on April 13, 2022, 11:50:31 am
And I think a lot of people aren't really going to care until ME comes out. (I know I won't.)
This for me. No worldscape means no buy, and if waiting for one means there will be percentages off the price... Well that's a nice bonus.
Though to be fair I'm not even sure if I can run it. So it might have been a nobuy from me regardless.
Post by: dragdeler on April 13, 2022, 12:12:59 pm
Supply line bug has only recently been fixed.
3 campaign mechanics are a bit annoying.
But yeah I bought this for ME, mainly. Once all the components come together and we can play without being plagued by rifts it will be awesome.
Post by: Persus13 on April 13, 2022, 12:18:44 pm
I've been meaning to get back into Warhammer III to finish my Grand Cathay campaign, but I've had a lot of other games competing for my time and my campaign has hit the usual late game total war campaign issue of I've snowballed too big for any faction to pose a challenge to me.
I really enjoyed hanging out with two friends and playing the kislev 3 player campaign, so hoping they put out more 3-4 player multiplayer content like that. The 8 player stuff is great, but I don't have 8 friends who play Total War to get the full enjoyment out of it.
Post by: IronyOwl on April 13, 2022, 06:19:32 pm
Likewise. I'm interested in 3, but after missing the preorder bonus there's been no point until the big map comes through.And I think a lot of people aren't really going to care until ME comes out. (I know I won't.)
This for me. No worldscape means no buy, and if waiting for one means there will be percentages off the price... Well that's a nice bonus.
I enjoy Warhammer III a ton, but it definitely suffers from the CKIII issue of being a good game with a better foundation than its predecessor, but following up another game that has 6 years of content and I've played hundreds of hours in.Total War at least has the advantage of not needing to wait for mods. I preordered the fancy edition of CK3 and have barely touched it because the available fantasy mods weren't very far along.
Post by: Astral on April 13, 2022, 07:40:19 pm
I enjoy Warhammer III a ton, but it definitely suffers from the CKIII issue of being a good game with a better foundation than its predecessor, but following up another game that has 6 years of content and I've played hundreds of hours in.
Definitely agree - I go back to 2 to play with SFO and some of my favored factions (Skaven, vampirates, Tomb Kings, Dwarfs). But then I miss the QOL updates for things like moving while garrisoned and item management. So I can't wait until more mods get out there, and for Immortal Empires to really take off with the game. The existing factions and interactions are just so barebone in comparison.
Post by: tonnot98 on April 13, 2022, 08:46:48 pm
Post by: axiomsofdominion on April 13, 2022, 08:59:57 pm
Likewise. I'm interested in 3, but after missing the preorder bonus there's been no point until the big map comes through.And I think a lot of people aren't really going to care until ME comes out. (I know I won't.)
This for me. No worldscape means no buy, and if waiting for one means there will be percentages off the price... Well that's a nice bonus.I enjoy Warhammer III a ton, but it definitely suffers from the CKIII issue of being a good game with a better foundation than its predecessor, but following up another game that has 6 years of content and I've played hundreds of hours in.Total War at least has the advantage of not needing to wait for mods. I preordered the fancy edition of CK3 and have barely touched it because the available fantasy mods weren't very far along.
They aren't? Weird because it has been several years and with the scripted gui thing you can add all your own mechanics and stuff. Nothing holding mods back from doing basically w/e they want.
Post by: Grim Portent on April 17, 2022, 04:27:25 pm
Still need to finish my Kairos game, which I might need to restart at this point because Kislev has grown huge and has managed to spread all the way to my bit of the Chaos Wastes.
Also still need to finish my Skrag game, which I had lost momentum on for reasons I no longer remember.
Went through a block of time playing CK3, and then I got Elden Ring the other week so that's been eating a lot of my time.
Post by: Jopax on April 29, 2022, 07:45:47 am
By the looks of it, no IE until late summer, and even then just the beta for it, so probably won't be terribly playable for most folks, if the performance at release is any indication. Also no actual DLC stuff until then either, haven't said anything which races they'll release it for either.
Also also, seems like the first race to get a rework/update will be WoC, which is nice to see, would've hoped to see Norsca get some love at the same time but seeing how bumbled the release was and how slow they are addressing the issues I'm guessing I'll be waiting at least a year if not more to actually get the game, so here's hoping other old races get some love by that point :V
Post by: dragdeler on April 29, 2022, 07:48:52 am
what kind of early access harassement campagne release was this? this announcement made me realize that 3 is not that great of a product on it's own merits
Post by: Persus13 on April 29, 2022, 08:22:39 am
I've been slowly getting back into my Cathay game recently. Ogres dragging me into war with the other Cathay faction jazzed the campaign up again, and after wrecking them I've been trying to take down Kairos because his Lord of Change/Soulgrinder doomstacks are being annoying.
Post by: Mech#4 on May 12, 2022, 08:36:19 pm
Link to Total War Twitter account posting (https://twitter.com/totalwar/status/1524748625208745984?s=20&t=P164xxO7fTHtZOIOP9DYZA)
According to the roadmap, some of the issues looked at in the coming patch are:
Spoiler: Copy/paste from the Roadmap Blob Post (click to show/hide)
Post by: dragdeler on July 09, 2022, 07:20:41 am
In other news: I had never played tww1, bought it in sale to get ME in tww2, where I spent most of my camapigns so far. In orderI played:
dwarves
lizardmen
imrik
tomb kings
khislev
ogres
Everytime I tried to play tww1 I went for repanse de lyonesse because I like myself a good mage as main lord, mazamundi was such fun... I launched that campaign like 3-4 times over the years, could never get into tww1. Recently I started a camapaign as vampire counts, and it has been pretty fun eventhough I like ranged units a lot.
Anyway tww1 is so super relaxing after playing 2 tww3 campaigns, much less harassment, way simpler politics, I kinda like the division between keeps and holds, I wouldn't want it in every campaign but it decellerates and simplifies tww1 even more. Quite fond of the final product as I said it's a much more laid back tww experience.
I'm doing something fun in my vampire count camapign, I was a little cheeky in the beginning to get the whole zone between the mountains, once I had all the territory I did not attack a single order faction ever again, now I'm allied with the dwarves, karak hirn, clan angul, the border princes and the empire. I'm gonna unite all order forces around me (maybe we will have to be against the wood elves and bretagne, but with some luck I might just continue to unite every order faction around me, through the power of gifts, liked your war with chaos, and liked your treaties with x).
Also I found out that in this game you can actually beat chaos and trigger an age of peace notification. Just perfect. I might never play a tww1 campaign again but this was a lot of fun.
Also what the heck is up with border princes: like half the names point towards my IRL location, the hearth of the "old occident": Akenberg, Masserschloss, Munzig, Lichtenburg... Yet it's a arid place that shares little climatological commonalities with it's name inspirations. I feel like I'm mssing a joke somewhere.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on July 09, 2022, 09:37:55 am
Also what the heck is up with border princes: like half the names point towards my IRL location, the hearth of the "old occident": Akenberg, Masserschloss, Munzig, Lichtenburg... Yet it's a arid place that shares little climatological commonalities with it's name inspirations. I feel like I'm mssing a joke somewhere.
The Border Princes in lore are a mess of petty kingdoms, adventurers and colonists, many of which are from the Empire. So that's probably why there are a lot of names that you recognize. I assume that they're a single nation in Total Warhammer because conquering a bunch of dinky, one-settlement nations would be tedious at best.
Post by: dragdeler on July 09, 2022, 02:00:44 pm
Post by: Jopax on July 14, 2022, 01:27:56 pm
By the looks of it we're getting Valkia for Khorne, Azazel for Slaanesh, Festus for Nurgle and Vilitch for Tzeentch.
I'm kinda excited for some of those, especially the WoC rework but I don't think I'll be jumping in just yet, probably wait until they squash the major bugs of IE.
Post by: Persus13 on July 14, 2022, 03:05:50 pm
Spoiler: Giant Map of starting locations (click to show/hide)
Post by: IronyOwl on July 14, 2022, 04:17:46 pm
Post by: Persus13 on July 14, 2022, 10:17:13 pm
When IME comes out I'm half-tempted to play a second Skarbrand game. Ghorst or Rakarth are what I'll probably go for though. Grombrindel being up by Malekith might also be pretty fun.
Post by: nenjin on July 15, 2022, 12:02:40 am
My guess? Major factions be going down like minor factions. I think confederating all your LL is going to be more of a crap shoot for a lot of factions. DE notably will be able to hook up their faction pretty easily though.
Post by: FantasticDorf on July 15, 2022, 02:56:04 am
THE WARRIORS OF CHAOS Battle Rework - Immortal Empires - Total War Warhammer 3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIdZ1kgJ2TM) ( milkandcookiesTW)
Elsewhere among the other content, is that Ghostly Dawi units now utilize frostbite (no mention of banshees and others yet) in close proximity, and counts can stack buffs for enhanced healing on graveguard (probably nerfed but maybe not?), better visualized effects for lore of metal & death. All of the existing WoC lords have recieved significant changes, Kholek looks the most impressive though (visually and mechanically), and can smash things up significantly and send high mass units flying with a third ability augument "Tempest Rage" (25% wep damage, 25% armor pierce wep damage, 20% charge, 24 melee attack)
Subject to change of course but very good.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on July 15, 2022, 03:26:35 am
Probably not if they're still a horde but hey ho
Post by: Astral on July 15, 2022, 07:51:10 am
You could even flavor rebuilding the settlement to one of the 4 Chaos gods for their various buffs once you retake it, identically to the Old One tribute.
Aside from the general stupidity of the AI in interacting with the vassal (as if it were not an extension of you), I actually had some fun playing Nakai as a change of pace, not having to worry as much about micromanaging a bunch of cities, but instead just rampaging wherever needed.
Post by: Jopax on July 15, 2022, 02:06:51 pm
Post by: dragdeler on July 16, 2022, 02:22:54 am
Post by: Mech#4 on July 23, 2022, 03:49:51 am
Total War: WARHAMMER III – Introducing the Champions of Chaos (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-introducing-the-coc/)
Going over the details of the upcoming Champions of Chaos DLC pack it explains the faction abilities of Azazel, though not the other 3 chaos lords coming yet, as well as the new units, campaign mechanics and regiments of renown.
One of the big things here is how Warriors of Chaos units can be upgraded. Starting from a base unit of Norscan Marauders you can dedicate them to a Chaos God or leave them Undivided, ungrading them to Chaos Warriors, then to Chosen or Chaos Knights as well as Aspiring Champions in some cases, then through to Chaos Spawns.
Heroes can also be dedicated to a single god, gaining access to new skills and abilities, such as a Chaos Sorcerer hero being dedicated to Slaanesh and choosing between the Lore of Slaanesh or Shadows, resetting their skill points and changing their appearance.
Total War: WARHAMMER III – Immortal Empires Race Updates (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/twwh3-ie-race-updates/)
This blog post covers some of the most significant changes being made to existing factions in the Immortal Empires update. Including the Vampire Counts, Lizardmen, Dark Elves and Norsca.
Key for Vampire Counts is no more free skeletons research, but an increase in LD for all of their units as well as stat buffs for Etheral units and being able to recruit Mournguls if you own the Vampire Coast DLC. Raise Dead also provides better units earlier and seems to scale off of Vampire Count Corruption. Recruitment buildings have been reshuffled, tech tree gone over as well as skill trees and Bloodline effects.
For Lizardmen, Primal Instincts on Saurus now provides larger bonuses early as well as not having Rampage any more. Gor'rok has had his Unbreakable rite changed to providing a barrier to Saurus units and immunity to effects like poison.
Slann also gain barriers and changes to their magic trees. Nakai has some changes to help his economy and from constructing his Temples to the Old Ones, as well as benefiting from overall improvements to how vassals work.
Dark Elves have had how their Slavery mechanic works changed. Slaves now being a faction level resource that you spend at certain buildings to generate income or "invest in three powerful 'slave Diktats' to benefit a specific province".
Norsca can now colonise anywhere, not just coastal regions and faction capitals. Their devotion to the Gods mechanics have changed as well, with the Hound and Crow no longer providing the RoR "The Ice-Forged Legion" Hellcannon unit and the global plague. Instead they provide access to and Exalted Hero of Khorne and an Exalted Great Unclean One respectively.
Post by: IronyOwl on July 23, 2022, 02:30:36 pm
Key for Vampire Counts is no more free skeletons research:(
They're right that it made a lot of the roster obsolete, though.
Post by: The_Explorer on July 25, 2022, 11:19:54 pm
As for free skeletons, I'll miss that :( But hopefully the rest of the roster is a lot better. I remember in warhammer 2, the vampire roster was getting a bit outdated really toward the end, had to get mods to modernize the roster and it was hard to figure out which OP godlike unit mods to avoid lol. Or I guess could have taken the approach of starsector, nothings OP if EVERYTHING is OP :P But thats just in regards to mods...either way even the base game, the newer DLC rosters were so much better than the old outdated rosters of warhammer 2. At least thats what it felt like to me.
Post by: nenjin on July 25, 2022, 11:49:01 pm
Post by: dragdeler on August 22, 2022, 02:33:08 pm
Post by: nenjin on August 22, 2022, 03:23:29 pm
LotW was saying that Chaos factions can't confederate each other, only vassalize. I don't know if that's true for the other factions but if so, that's a pretty big derp for release. Confederating the other LL for your faction is like half the reason to play anything more than a short game. Hoping that's addressed by release, or shortly thereafter.
And for the factions that can confederate, confederations are way, way harder and more tedious than in game 2.
https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/wnbe4m/warhammer_3_confederations_are_borked_this_is/
Also....with Warriors of Chaos, Beastmen and Norsca now completely reworked, I put the question to you......
What is the worst faction/LL in Total Warhammer 3 now? Guessing probably the Lizardmen with Nakai the Wanderer.
Post by: Dostoevsky on August 22, 2022, 09:17:57 pm
Post by: GiglameshDespair on August 23, 2022, 02:00:34 am
I suspect most demons will dumpster them, especially slaneesh with their massive AP values, and the dorfs don't really have any magic damage outside of Runelords to deal with the demon physical resist.
They just don't really have a big toolkit.
Post by: scriver on August 23, 2022, 03:06:24 am
Post by: Dostoevsky on August 23, 2022, 09:36:27 am
Dwarfs were barely touched in the update here, and considering that outside the latest DLC guy (who was a bit OP) they weren't exactly great then, I'm thinking you might be right.
Slann get a Tzeentchy barrier now, which is neat, but more importantly no more rampage for lizardmen units.
War wagons got a buff on paper and reportedly also fixed an apparently longstanding glitch that lowered their damage.
Post by: Jopax on August 23, 2022, 01:00:02 pm
Also I don't think being unable to confederate as the new Chaos champions is necessarily bugged either. They're wildly different and it doesn't make sense that a Khornate warband takes charge of a Slaneeshi one. Might make sense for someone like Archaon to be able to smash together warring factions like that but not so much for the others I'd say.
Post by: nenjin on August 23, 2022, 01:08:21 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 23, 2022, 02:04:09 pm
Some of the "Short Campaign" victory conditions took incredibly long in WH2, but Kholek's first victory could probably be achieved in 50 turns or so.
Post by: nenjin on August 24, 2022, 11:14:26 am
I was puzzled though why I was being charged an additional 25% recruitment cost for Marauders. I think it's because if you don't have the unit building built, you can still recruit base troops but they charge you more? I feel like some factions mechanics have gotten more complex in TWH3.....while not necessarily keeping up with the tooltips.
Post by: USEC_OFFICER on August 24, 2022, 06:36:48 pm
I was puzzled though why I was being charged an additional 25% recruitment cost for Marauders. I think it's because if you don't have the unit building built, you can still recruit base troops but they charge you more? I feel like some factions mechanics have gotten more complex in TWH3.....while not necessarily keeping up with the tooltips.
I don't think it's anything to do with the buildings since the cost increase isn't a flat malus. I double-checked my armies and the cost varied, from 409 at the low end to 514 at the high. It might be based on chaos corruption and terrain, since the cheaper marauders were in Norsca while the expensive ones were in the edge of the Empire.
Post by: nenjin on August 24, 2022, 07:57:24 pm
It kind of looks like a balancing act for warbands specifically. Costs more to recruit since it's instant recruitment, but lower upkeep so you uh....can make due with fewer cities I guess?
Like, if that's the case, the over/under tooltip is just kind of confusing, making me think it's a situational thing I can do something about. If the game is just going to mark up/mark down unit cost and upkeep according to various factors....either tell me the inputs or don't show me the markup / markdowns.
Post by: nenjin on August 25, 2022, 12:18:42 am
I was intending to vassalize all the minor daemon factions around Archaon's start point, but due to how things worked out over 20 turns, Ursan Revivalists pretty much put paid to the Khorne faction and the Khorne faction put paid to the Tzeentch faction. Both just had their capitals left so it was like....miss out on two Dark Fortresses or lose two vassalized daemon factions and their recruitment options. I vassalized the minor Slaanesh faction mostly because the campaign start primes you for it, and it's managing to pay out a decent number of recruits. So I'm kinda bummed I had to wipe out the Tzeentch daemons, because I really wanted their ranged.
Vassals for Chaos seem....I dunno. I'm not inclined to donate settlements to them for their benefit, so instead they end up surrounded and isolated by my provinces and don't grow or develop, so their recruits don't get any better or at least get better quickly like a regular AI faction with some territories would. For Chaos in particular, vassal recruits can't be upgraded or promoted. So a vassal Marauder recruit will just gain XP but not be able to promote to Chaos warrior. Useful if you need to bulk up an army quick I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, vassalization is cool. It's super flavorful and RP friendly. If you want your Sigvald and Archaon bromance, (or whatever weird WHF fanfic you're into) you can support your vassal like you would a coop player and actually use them. From a mechanics and optimization perspective though....it's kinda just easier to wipe them out and own their provinces yourself. There's some modifiers to vassal tribute but since it's only a part of their wealth rather than their entire wealth, those modifiers I think still make it fall short of economically developed settlements. Half the settlements in the Chaos wastes are just altars and stuff, not even the equivalent of a minor settlement. So you really want those Dark Fortresses in your hands rather than their's. And the other ostensible other benefit of vassals, their recruitable units, you're limited to just 4. That might be enough to make an important difference to your armies for some units, like war machines or cavalry or really good archers or monstrous units. But it mostly just seems like flavor at the end of the day.
Right now I'm debating in my campaign whether to go west through the Chaos Wastes and vassalize or destroy the Daemons of Chaos.....or go south east and start completing Archaon's quests, amassing souls and laying waste to the Empire. Just got my second army started so maybe I'll try to send them opposite directions instead of just dogpiiling on the AI with both and auto-resolving the next 200 turns.
Post by: dragdeler on August 25, 2022, 03:45:16 am
Maybe it's time to play empire fore the first time? I know their roster is vast but it kinda feels very vanilla... But I played most factions I like lorewise once so... diplomacy boni to get an even larger roster seems like a fun campaign. Ah we'll see i'll probably start one today if nothing gets in between.
Post by: Mech#4 on August 27, 2022, 07:10:55 am
Still not really seeing it explained anywhere. It's not the flavor of corruption. It's not my primary corruption (it's almost maxed in that province), it's not Control, there's no buildings doing it, no other characters in the region that could affect it. The tool tips all mention terrain and climate affecting availability, but not cost. The cost markup is variable per unit (Troll is 20% more expensive, Chaos Warhound is 25% more expensive.....) for purchasing them...and on the flip side, they all have reduced upkeep costs versus normal.
It kind of looks like a balancing act for warbands specifically. Costs more to recruit since it's instant recruitment, but lower upkeep so you uh....can make due with fewer cities I guess?
Like, if that's the case, the over/under tooltip is just kind of confusing, making me think it's a situational thing I can do something about. If the game is just going to mark up/mark down unit cost and upkeep according to various factors....either tell me the inputs or don't show me the markup / markdowns.
This isn't related to the Warband Authority mechanic is it?
Above the lord when they're selected there's a series of chaos icons with a number in a circle. Say, Khorne 1, Nurgle 2, Tzeentch -1, Slaanesh 0 and Undivided 4.
This gives bonuses and penalties to units aligned with the different gods or who are undivided. Basically, if you have +1 Khorne Authority (Authority is usually gained through having heroes devoted to specific gods or unaligned) you will get a small discount for Khorne units.
However, if Khorne Authority is -1 or more, you will get a penalty to upkeep, along with other penalties, for Khorne units.
Heroes and Lords devoted to specific gods will also reduce Authority related to their opposite god. So Khorne heroes will raise Khorne Authority but lower Slaanesh Authority.
Specific bonuses/Penalties are:
Casualty Replenishment Rate.
Upkeep for X Gods Units.
Recruitment Cost for X Gods units.
Warband Upgrade cost for X Gods units.
Post by: Persus13 on August 27, 2022, 07:26:43 am
Post by: scriver on August 27, 2022, 11:11:51 am
Post by: Persus13 on August 27, 2022, 11:49:39 am
Warhammer 3 I can't run at higher graphics settings in the first place, but IME doesn't run any worse for me compared to vanilla. The lack of the realms of chaos and the rifts might mean it actually runs a bit better on the campaign map, and I feel like battle load times take a little longer, but that's just my impression.
Post by: dragdeler on August 27, 2022, 12:39:53 pm
Post by: nenjin on August 27, 2022, 03:18:07 pm
But in general yeah, I think it's run at least as smooth as TWH2 did for me. Game default to mostly max settings. (I don't have 3070 and I've got like a 4th gen i7.) I was prepared for battles to run like shit but so far it's been pretty good. That said I think models and stuff in TWH3 have lower fidelity. The game doesn't look better and when I look at the model, particularly in the hero/lord panel, they just seem kinda flat and ugly.
Post by: dragdeler on August 27, 2022, 06:28:54 pm
Yes I am obsessed with temperature but I hate the idea of additional strain on the parts, in order to produce excess heat, and I will just reduce visual fidelity and cap framerate until I'm satisfied. For example shadows have allways been an easy "off" for me, I find all the contrasting lines just distract from the actual information that is being conveyed, of course there are exceptions like stealth games.
I kinda outhyped myself by playing a VC and ork campaign in TW1, and a woodelf campaign in TW2 recently, technically I'd "rank" them as such:
TW1: easy on hardware because oldest and smallest
TW2: I found most optimised, super happy with the settings that were still in from when I bought it, and I wasn't even capping framerates at 48
TW3: I'm capping frames at 48, because I'm fine with that in strategy titles, but yeah, on a 2080ti just as to not exceed 82-84°C on the campaign map? Seems a bit excessive, especially since battles run so minty fresh
Post by: Mech#4 on August 28, 2022, 01:58:31 am
I have most settings on ultra with shadow detail on high. Anti-aliasing is FXAA. This is at 1920x1080 resolution too.
Video card is a 2070 8gb.
Post by: nenjin on August 28, 2022, 04:51:25 pm
It's been a cake walk. The AI just doesn't seem as aggressive or predatory as THW2. Dealing with Throgg and Icetooth has still taken the better part of the campaign, that's not changed. But in general you have to do really, really stupid things to get a challenging fight. (I managed to get attacked by both Thrott and the Empire in one battle because I decided to siege a city where I was already looking at a valiant defeat. So they sallied out. Came out to 2 Skaven armies, the Skaven Garrison and an Empire army. Smoked them all. I imagine the survivors of the Empire won't be telling their kids about that particular battle.....)
AI armies don't seem particularly strong either in terms of composition. Still a lot of T1 units, and a sprinkling of T3 stuff. I haven't seen a T4 or T5 unit from anyone yet. I've had I think one settlement in the ass crack of Norsca taken but other than that no one has really tried to go for me, and I've made due with only three armies until very recently. I hit Strength Ranking 2 by around turn 40 or so, or at least that's when I noticed it. Usually in TWH2 by the mid game various factions would be looking to nip at the undefended parts of my empire because it's gotten bigger than my army count. Maybe it's the advantage of being back against the edge of the map and surrounded by vassalized factions as Archaon in TWH3. I've had exactly two battles so far where auto-resolve was calling it a valiant defeat, and I managed to turn them both into decisive victories (one of those was the above battle.) So not feeling particularly challenged by the early game, and the late game steamroll is well underway.
The game started with 272 factions and by turn 75 we're down to about 130. I'm really looking forward to the campaign end time-lapse of factions to see who went out when, and where.
On the topic of vassalage, shit be gettin crazy. The map is CRAWLING with armies from Norsca tribes now, and they're even making in roads into the Empire ahead of me while I clean up Norsca. I've vassalized 3 daemon factions and probably more than 7 Norsca tribes by now, with a few more to come. I even vassalized Clan Moulder, which, I didn't think Chaos could vassalize non-Chaos, Daemon or Norscan factions. So Now I've got Thrott running around fuckin shit up on my behalf. And yet somehow I was completely unable to vassalize or subjugate the Daemons of Chaos faction. No idea why, it didn't follow any of the other rules on vassalizing I've seen so far.
Other than that I've started to get a sense of vassalage now and it's sort of useful if a bit buggy. Some units seem to get stuck and will never respond to new orders or even move ever again. Some units are slow to respond to orders, particularly if they're already got previous orders. Maybe you need to well and truly need to cancel their existing orders first if you want an immediate change, otherwise it seems to take a few turns for them to actually do it themselves. The game mentioned something about AI obeying orders for a few turns before they'll go back to what they were doing. That only seems true of defend orders.
But yeah, vassals are fairly handy. They're good for camping on cities you think might be vulnerable, good for running down broken armies, good for ordering to follow you around to bolster your numbers. Just their presence alone makes the enemy AI have to reconsider things and might contribute to their seeming passivity.
That said it feels weird to not be responsible for every single campaign move. I'll look back at an area I've revealed but haven't moved toward yet, and found the AI has started capturing settlements there. I think it's cool thematically but it does make the game easier and like you're not really responsible for a bit of it. I still don't generally let them take Dark Fortresses and it is sometimes annoying to have to roll back a turn because they've decided to attack a target you were interested in, unbidden. I often have to order my vassals to go do something else to draw them away from my next conquest, because if you're looking to invade somewhere, often some of your vassals are thinking the same thing at the same time, since your enemies are their enemies. Economically I guess the benefit of vassals (for Chaos) is they can turn minor settlements (which make you no money if you own them) into small profit generators. Still not sure if that value outstrips what a fully upgraded Dark Fortress brings or not.
The Lord and Hero trait RNG as far as Chaos god allegiance goes seems a little wonky. If you're looking to do a mono god themed army in Warriors of Chaos, you're kind of reliant on both the Lord and Hero traits, AND which Paths to Glory they roll with. For example, I've yet to see a melee Lord roll with the Nurgle or Tzeentch traits that make it cheaper to dedicate to a god and get their Authority. But I have 8+ Lords in the recruitment queue each with the trait for dedicating to Khorne or Slaaneesh. And I've yet to see a melee Hero roll the dedication to Tzeentch Path to Glory. I don't think it's necessarily tied to anything, just RNG. My idea for this campaign was to run Khorne/Tzeentch leaning armies. But so far the faction I've had almost all my opportunities and successes with is Slaanesh. It's just a minor flavor thing at the end of the day, Chaos Undivided is going to be strongest in Archaon's army. Still, it's always annoying when a flavor thing you're trying to do in a video game is essentially tied to RNG. The game ends up over and trivialized by the time you get the things you were going for.
Lastly, one other thing I think is contributing to Archaon's campaign feeling a little too easy is the prevalence of Aspiring Champions available for warband recruitment. I'm not sure what governs it, but not long after you've taken over an area, you're as likely as not to see at least one Aspiring Champion available for recruit in any given region. You're more likely to see them than Chosen or Chaos Warriors, no joke. You're skipping pretty much the entire melee progression in Warriors of Chaos recruiting them via warband recruitment, and Aspiring Champions once your tech tree is built out are fuckin' disugstin'. Regen, frenzy, barriers, perfect vigor, strider, poison, immune to psychology....they make you kind of question the value and utility of mono god Chaos Warriors because they simply get so many (and many of the same) benefits of those troops. A Chosen of Khorne is just a way more vulnerable version of a decked out Aspiring Champion with way fewer perks. Kind of feels like mono god Chaos Warriors need another tier of troop above them, like Champions of <god>, so they can give Aspiring Champions a run for their money.
Post by: Grim Portent on August 28, 2022, 06:31:09 pm
The lack of confederation bugged me in my Archaon run, I had no need for the other LLs, my generics grew in power readily enough that little stood in their path to the point that Archaon, Rell (daemon prince of Khorne) and Hezxus (Undivided lord on dragon) were each able to single handedly thrash an entire region of the map solo. BUT I would still have liked to get my hands on Kholek and Be'lakor rather than having to do a whole new campaign to get to use them.
Archaon dealt with the Northern Wastes, Naggaroth and Ulthuan, Rell razed the World's Edge Mountains and some space on either side, Hezxus burned Cathay and the Mountains of Mourne to ash. Then they converged on the end game event, which was dwarves, with them handily dealing with basically everything that got thrown at them with ease. By the end of the campaign I had long since vassalised every chaos faction except Throgg and Wulfric. The four greater daemons vassalised without me even being near them, my opinion bonus from subjugating the North was so high.
Doing a Mannfred run now, and the AI does seem waaaay less aggressive than in the story campaign, and less agressive than in TW2 but not quite as much. Over a 100 turns I've probably had my settlements attacked only about 10-15 times despite being surrounded by enemies at all times.
Post by: nenjin on August 28, 2022, 06:37:56 pm
Post by: Persus13 on August 28, 2022, 06:42:32 pm
Post by: Grim Portent on August 28, 2022, 07:12:58 pm
It probably effects some other pre-TW3 heroes as well.
Post by: Persus13 on August 28, 2022, 07:20:07 pm
Speaking of bugs, I noticed a bug recently where the nurgle and slaanesh forsaken techs were swapped. So the Slaanesh tech gave you nurgle forsaken and vice versa.
Post by: dragdeler on August 30, 2022, 07:29:41 am
I saw belakor has the most gigantic roster ever, but I failed to check if homemade demon has access to them all too.
Aaaanyway... I did launch an empire camapign, they're kinda boring but I like range and artillery, so it's actually allright, but I can't wait to have an outpost or two to integrate more cool stuff into my armies. In fact I wanted to claim all the bretonnian peninsula and be big pals with the woodelves first and foremost, but the woodelves didn't like that, and that campaign was a disaster. Shame, I really wanted to have my back to the coast, be trading partners with all the elves, and fight all my fights in the home region of altdorf, much like the lore goes. I had to cancel the campaign at turn 80 because I was at an impasse where I would have had many many setbacks before progressing again. My biggest tip: take care of festus while you can, and while you're out there, build up bufferstates by returning to elector count. Next step now is to beat the vampire but at least this time I'm not pushing them back through 5 provinces that are littered with bodies.
Post by: Persus13 on August 30, 2022, 08:02:07 am
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 30, 2022, 09:56:07 am
Post by: Grim Portent on August 30, 2022, 01:57:12 pm
Be'lakor was in Daemons of Chaos in tabletop though, so I'm not really sure why he isn't an alternative to the Daemon Prince as a lord for Undivided.
Post by: ZebioLizard2 on August 31, 2022, 12:20:30 am
Specifically they were part of the WoC codex in tabletop rather than Daemons of Chaos.Because they gave him a new faction specific to himself in both AoS and 40k that is close to how he is being portrayed in his Shadow Legion faction. It's unique as it represents how he uses both mortal and daemon forces that aren't strong enough to resist his will to fight against the Chaos Gods so I imagine they felt it fit better with WoC.
Be'lakor was in Daemons of Chaos in tabletop though, so I'm not really sure why he isn't an alternative to the Daemon Prince as a lord for Undivided.
Post by: dragdeler on September 04, 2022, 04:33:04 am
Post by: nenjin on September 04, 2022, 05:06:04 am
One of two things happens there with them around you: either other hostile AIs don't see your threat level as high because you don't share a border with them and don't declare war on you, or they see your buffer nation is weak (because it's caught between them and you the player) and conquer them.
Case in point: I left the Daemons of Chaos faction to my west alone pretty much until turn 75, despite being really close to my start position. Never formed any alliances, and we never had cause to go to war. *The very next turn* after conquering their settlements that shared a border with Hag Graef, Hag Graef declares war on me.
Partly why it's not always advantageous to reveal the map beyond what you immediately need to do next. Can't have a declaration of war if neither party knows the other exists.
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 04, 2022, 08:23:01 pm
A few turns later, I notice two of those enemy armies inside my borders, having apparently travelled through my ally's territory relatively unchallenged. (To be fair, one was in the process of getting chased by a separate nation they had pissed off.)
Post by: Grim Portent on September 05, 2022, 02:31:08 pm
Immortal Empires (Very Hard difficulty setting) even my actual enemies are barely doing anything. They throw the odd army at me, but there isn't really the same feeling of being picked at from all sides even when I was at war with enemies on three sides of my empire. I was at war with Kairos, Imrik, Skarsnik, Wurzag, Ungrim, Orion and Gelt at one point of my VC game.
The only ones consistently attacking me were Orion and Skarsnik. The odd army would peck at me from the other factions, but other than Orion attacking my forces near Athel Loren and Skarsnik picking off weak settlements in the mountains I could go for a dozen turns without any actual combat that wasn't the result of me attacking.
Same basic experience as Repanse, though that game hasn't gone as far yet, as Archaon and as Throgg. Lots of wars, but not many actual attacks against me.
Post by: nenjin on September 05, 2022, 02:50:51 pm
And I think it's specific to the player. I watched Wintertooth have like 6 total armies, 3 of of their own and three allies, rampaging over northern Kislev. I wreckessly went in there to pick a fight, got one decent 1v3 battle and then the rest (including Throgg who didn't even participate in the battle) scattered. That was my first and only actual battle dealing with Winterooth, the rest was jut clean up.
Never would have gotten away with that in TWH2. They would have immediately gone after my unprotected settlements.
Post by: Grim Portent on September 05, 2022, 03:54:51 pm
They were really scared of him for some reason, and unwilling to mass the forces needed to pose a proper threat on that front, so he was able to just pick them off whenever they didn't give him a wide enough berth, and Vlad was consolidating the Empire anyway so I was able to use him to mop up whatever dregs did get past Mannfred. Nearly the whole Empire was in ruins, Kislev burned to the ground, Festus ruled over the middle parts of the Empire, Archaon and Azazel over Kislev, and then when I showed up they all just sort of... evaporated really. The armies I destroyed in the initial clashes just never really got replaced for some reason, instead I just got trickles of incomplete stacks trying to walk through Kislev on a trajectory for Reikland.
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 05, 2022, 04:21:32 pm
Yeah the campaign AI is quite timid compared to TWHII. LotW's take is they want to encourage settlement battles, so the AI will hide in its cities at the first whiff of trouble and wait for you there.
And I think it's specific to the player. I watched Wintertooth have like 6 total armies, 3 of of their own and three allies, rampaging over northern Kislev. I wreckessly went in there to pick a fight, got one decent 1v3 battle and then the rest (including Throgg who didn't even participate in the battle) scattered. That was my first and only actual battle dealing with Winterooth, the rest was jut clean up.
Never would have gotten away with that in TWH2. They would have immediately gone after my unprotected settlements.
What campaign difficulty are you playing on? There's a bug currently where AI aggressiveness is inverse to difficulty setting chosen, i.e. the legendary AI is the most timid.
Post by: nenjin on September 05, 2022, 04:41:52 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 05, 2022, 04:50:43 pm
Post by: nenjin on September 05, 2022, 04:53:42 pm
I dunno, just based on how often the AI would opportunistically do stuff in TWH2 and sometimes frustrate me with its precision, it seems to be avoiding me mostly in TWH3.
Post by: Grim Portent on September 05, 2022, 04:56:20 pm
What campaign difficulty are you playing on? There's a bug currently where AI aggressiveness is inverse to difficulty setting chosen, i.e. the legendary AI is the most timid.
That would explain a lot about my experiences with the IE beta.
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 06, 2022, 12:32:38 pm
Quote
Prior to 2.1, the campaign AI bonus system was using the 'Battle' difficulty setting. This was addressed in 2.1 and did not affect anyone playing on E/E, N/N, H/H, VH/VH.
The WARHAMMER AI construction system has a bug where it tries to deal with building upkeep incorrectly. This results in AI construction being much slower than intended and will be fixed in Update 2.2.
From a post on their reddit - looks like the AI glitch was a little different than thought.
Also, new patch (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3-update-210/).
Post by: Persus13 on September 06, 2022, 03:39:17 pm
Post by: nenjin on September 06, 2022, 05:37:20 pm
Post by: dragdeler on September 07, 2022, 04:44:10 pm
I can litterally beat every unit, have like 8-9 good units left over... have them all fight malus 1 by 1 so he doesn't splash too much, he barely gets any damage after a good 15 minutes he withdraws with more than half hp left, while he retreats I don't do dmg either, next fight he is back with full hp. I don't have many range units for choice yet, and they barely scratch him too.
I WANT HIM GONE FUCKING CHEESE-ELVES invincible stupid cheese elves even some basic spear units seems to hold their own against khorne units pretty well, I've been trying so hard, for so long... ugh
Spoiler: Look at this shit, they were allready at it for a while. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: AW YISS (click to show/hide)
Post by: nenjin on September 07, 2022, 05:59:15 pm
Might check his magic resistance in both forms. Single target character attack spells like Spirit Leech get a pretty bad rep for good reason. But this is one instance where it might make more sense to just zap him into submission than wasting arrows (i.e balance of power) that don't hurt him or sacrificing melee units (also balance of power.) If you want to inflict the army losses retreat on him early, you have to lose as few of units as possible before you engage him, and while you're engaging him. Every unit you lose means that much more (really difficult to apply) damage he has to take before he'll break, even after his entire army is gone.
Malus is up there with Vlad, Grimgor some dwarven LLs and a few others that even in the AI's hands are basically not worth fighting with anything until the rest of their army is dead. If he were slow it wouldn't be that big of a deal, but with Dark Elf speed plus being very hard to kill and a decent melee combatant, he kind of demands an answer.
Post by: dragdeler on September 07, 2022, 06:56:41 pm
By the time I'm leaving the chaos wastes there will be like 60 factions left in the world xD...
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 07, 2022, 09:09:57 pm
Post by: scriver on September 08, 2022, 05:42:15 am
Post by: Dostoevsky on September 08, 2022, 09:47:20 am
Post by: Persus13 on September 08, 2022, 09:50:16 am
Post by: nenjin on September 11, 2022, 08:20:31 pm
I consolidated the Chaos Wastes much faster this time. Still can't subjugate the Legion of Chaos. Slightly disappointed there. Just as I was thinking about going for Kholek he got wiped out by Grimgor. So I backed up a couple turns, made a beeline for him and just managed to beat Grimgor to taking the city, giving me the confederation.
So then I vassalized Grimgor, who himself was about to be wiped out by the Ogres, and that turned out to be both great and bad. Great because he wasted no time in just carving up the Ogre Territories, rebuilding himself a little fiefdom faster than any vassal I've seen. On the bad side though, it drew me into a war of the wastelands and everything has just gotten 3 orders of magnitude more annoying now. The Ogre Kingdoms declared on me and I've been busy chasing them around. Some other orcs declared war on Grimgor so add that to the pile. Then out of fucking nowhere Helman Ghorst rides up from the south and starts attacking my assets as well. Grimgor gets busy chasing Gresus around to no effect, and my army had moved northwards to try and confederate Vilitch.
Now things are starting to get more like TWH2. In the west I'm trying to confederate Sigvald and he is being an absolute bastard. Leading two of my armies on a merry chase while he a) stays out of my reach, b) razes settlements along the way and c) forced marches afterward like it costs him literally nothing to attack and raze the city. After almost a full loop of this nonsense I get a block army off on him and position two armies to get him next turn, and he manages to somehow pick the one forced march army and attack in a way I don't get reinforcements. Son of a f.........
So I reload and instead use the same army in forced march with the other army in ambush, and he goes for it like a hungry dog and gets auto-resolved to the TRASH CAN. I can't decide if I want to trait farm him for the humiliation value or just get him confederated and move on. I got other Pokemon to catch before they get snuffed out.
SPEAKING OF OTHER POKEMON. In the East I haven't been able to stomp out the ogres and secure my lands because half my attention is focused on getting to Vilitch. My hope was to get him and hopefully not piss off all of Cathy, since most of the east is already my enemy. Well, no such fucking luck. I finally got deep into his territory and thought I had him at his last fortress....no, turns out, he's got a city INSIDE THE GREAT WALL. So now I have to make war on Cathy, just so I can get inside their boundaries, just so I can finish of Vilitch, just so I can confederate him.
This is more like the TWH2 I remember. Getting annoyed with the AI finessing you down to the pixel and having more AI armies to account for than armies to cover territory. And then you add all the fucking bugs on top of it. Like the game forgetting you've vassalized a faction, the game deciding not to recognize your ruin dwell from the turn before EXCEPT for the troops it cost you, certain settlement maps making your troops and the enemy's literally disappear from sight in certain parts of it, the list goes on.
And for how many vassals I have it's weird how they all seem to vanish the minute I need them. Shit was crazy down in the Wastelands for a while, like 4 enemy armies and 5 of my vassals just duking it out like crazy. I thought that was enough to cover things and is why I started making my way north.....but then all my vassals seem to have either gotten killed or gone back to their original spawn settlements, because only my enemies remain and there's a lot of them.
None of this would be a big deal I suppose except my economy is struggling at 5 armies. I can barely break $6k and it doesn't help when settlements are getting razed left and right. Not sure what I did different in the first game except that I let more minor settlements go to vassals than before.
Post by: nenjin on February 16, 2023, 05:57:30 pm
Legend of Total War started a petition a few months ago asking CA to change how players are allowed to access the Immortal Empires campaign in Total Warhammer 3.
Anyone that's gotten into the series knows how stupid it all is, but for those that don't:
In order to play the best and most fun mode for the game, you had to own ALL the main titles. Total Warhammer 1 and the Mortal Empires DLC to play it there. TWH1 and TWH2 to play Mortal Empires in TWH2. And TWH 1, 2 and 3 to play it in the latest game. It also meant that if you wanted a DLC faction from those games, you had to buy the base game those factions were attached to as well.
Well, after 30k+ signatures and a few months, CA listened.
You can now play Immortal Empires in TWH3 just by buying TWH3. And, as a bonus, you can buy any of the previous game faction DLCs and they'll be playable in IM in TWH3. You don't need to buy the base games those faction DLCs were attached to. You also get the "Freemium" Legendary Lords that come with those DLCs, even if you don't own the base game they were released for.
You DO still have to buy the base game that introduced a main faction. Off the top of my head I don't know for sure, but let's just say you want to play, uh, Balthazar Gelt's faction in Total Warhammer 3. You'd still need to buy Total Warhammer 2 to get do that.
Still, this is a massive improvement in their pricing schema, which has to be one of the stupidest and most elaborate and convoluted ones I've seen for a game that isn't an always online live service. It doesn't really affect anyone who already bought all the BS. But it makes getting into the game and series for new players so much less onerous to figure out.
My guess is that CA finally relented because internally their own developers were like "this is nonsense trying to maintain this from a code perspective." Or maybe it's just that TWH3 is probably the last release in the series and they felt it was a good time to unify everything. Either way, it's a bit of news that seems to have no downside for once. So hurray.
Post by: Dostoevsky on February 16, 2023, 11:25:27 pm
Either way, it's a bit of news that seems to have no downside for once. So hurray.
AHEM, I came back to WH3 after a few months, got comfortably into a new campaign, and then the update broke my mod list and I am stuck in campaign withdrawal. This is terrible news.
(The WH3 version of the classic Southern Realms mod is good, by the way)
Post by: sambojin on February 18, 2023, 07:59:59 pm
Then I'd probably grab the Prophet and the Warlock for Lizzies and Skaven a week or two later. Or something undead'ish for a laugh (the Grim and the Grave for VC and Empire perhaps?).
Plenty of playstyles available, for not too much cash. Sure, you're stuck with just those faction leaders and their rules/quirks to play with in the IE campaign, but they should all be different enough to have a far bit of fun with. You "sort of" get the whole army, you're just stuck with the start-off points of those lords and the buffs they give you. Those first two lord packs would give me a fair amount of starting locations as well, so I can explore the world a bit. You tend to get 4-6 lords per pack, and they've all got their differing quirks and optimum army make-up, so there's a reasonable amount of replayability included in each one bought I think. And, it's still way cheaper than most GW stuff :)
This kinda explains what you can get from where:
(YouTube vid, but it explains it well. At about 8:30 for the list)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
((But yeah, if I could get Alith Anur kill-the-* contract stuff, a bit of fly-boy Imrik dragon stuff with High Elves, a decent Savage Orc waaaagh from the badlands with Wurzag, and awesome knight-stomping-cooking-pot noms with Grom, that'd make WH3 a good game. So, with that one Lord pack, it turns it from "meh?" to "fuck, yes, I'd play Immortal Empires *heaps*, and maybe even buy another Lord pack down the track"))
Post by: Jopax on February 19, 2023, 12:18:48 pm
The stuff they announced sounds cool but I think I'll be passing on the game for a while more, see what more they add because the majority of the stuff I can already play around with in WH2 so paying full price to get that in a shinier package with some new stuff on the side doesn't seem that appealing right now (the only faction that looks interesting are the updated WoC and I'd need extra DLC to play most of those :V )
Post by: scriver on February 23, 2023, 04:57:53 am
Post by: nenjin on February 23, 2023, 02:34:10 pm
Post by: dragdeler on February 23, 2023, 05:14:55 pm
Post by: Mkok on February 26, 2023, 02:12:12 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 26, 2023, 03:07:45 pm
TWH3 sounds by the numbers given your description though. Most of the difficulty of the campaigns is front-loaded in the early game. The AI isn't terribly smart, especially on the lower difficulties. So the beginning of the campaign is where you have to really mind your decisions because you have the fewest options to work with.
But in most THW games, there's a point beyond which you've won but there's still 4/5ths of the world to conquer. But victory is assured because you have good armies, your legendary lords are leveled and kitted out and there's very little that can stop you on the campaign map other than the occasional nasty army to fight or a strategically outnumbered situation.
TWH3 just isn't as nasty as TWH2. The AI isn't as savage, it's not as aggressive and it's not as quirky. TWH3 will even notice that you're kicking ass at your current difficulty and recommend you up it if you're not already playing on legendary.
If you're new to TWH3, you might find it challenging to start with. But it doesn't take more than a few campaigns before you get how normal difficulty is. From there it's a matter IMO of how much tedium you want to deal with in the name of being challenged.
As for events, really the only campaign events in TWH3 are the optional End Game Crises you can enable. All that does is, after a certain turn has passed, one or more factions will spawn 4 full stacks of high tier units to fight. Which can make things awkward if like, you conquered their region of the map and suddenly they respawn in their homeland and start running amok behind your lines.
Vanilla Immortal Empires is, at the end of the day, a sandbox with some really loose victory conditions for each faction. As such, it doesn't really have a satisfying flow of challenge. Based on faction and difficulty, some starts are harder, some starts are easier, but all of them eventually lead to painting the map. And there's really no events that spice up or change that reality. About the best you get is when something odd manages to happen, like a faction that typically doesn't dominate takes over. That's about as spicy as it gets.
Post by: Mkok on February 26, 2023, 04:42:17 pm
Post by: nenjin on February 26, 2023, 04:44:41 pm
Post by: scriver on February 27, 2023, 08:10:02 am
But I hadn't lost the feel to play yet so I started over, and read up a little on the mechanics, and then I got to the part I Tzeentch's realm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
). I eventually gave up, decided to autosolve it instead, reloaded, and found myself back at the pre-battle screen promising me a Heroic Victory. And that just blew the wind out of me.I mean, I'm not the best TW player, I know that, but I've usually been able to beat the story missions even if it costs me a lot (my main struggle with the games has always been economic and that certainly wasn't an issue in the Cathay Iron Dragon campaign). But Heroic Victory, for me who struggle to get Heroic Victories in TW games anymore since at least before the Warhammer series, it just felt like an insult, like they were patronising me. Ridiculous, I know, but feelings aren't rational.
I looked up tips for the battle afterwards.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Haven't really played since. Tried an Empire Immortal Campaign to clear my pallete, pondered a Kislev start. It's a shame, because I really liked Cathay and their faction features. Their position is cool, reflecting the Empire's "unite the splintered realm or fall to internal conflict and strife" theme in interesting ways. I liked their troops, even though they felt a bit short on the roster (maybe an consequence of CA having to come up with much of the actualities themselves?).
As for Kislev, they seem to have interesting mechanics too. I'm a bit hesitant about their troop tree though, I'm not a huge fan of hybrid troops, I get unsure on how to use them. Tips are appreciated.
And finally, I need to add about the Empire Immortal campaign. In WH2's Mortal Empires campaign they had, mainly imported from WH1 iirc, a structure of missions to guide you and set you up with some free money and faction resource, especially useful at the start of the campaign. For some reason they decided to not implement this for WH3. As far as I could tell from quickly testing it out, no faction seem to have their starting missions brought over. And since I'm a chronic "I have to get the best start" restarter, I'm feeling like I'm losing out on the good start. Yes, I know, irrational, new map content, new game. But I really can't start a gsme without getting the best start. It's a mental hangup. So I ended up abandoning it, thinking I would be better of playing TW2 if I wanted to play the old factions. And that's my advice on the non-story campaign in general.
Oh, and for some reason they made Immortal Empires Empire be unable to ally or confederate other imperial factions. What's up with that, that's the entire theme of their campaign?
Post by: nenjin on February 27, 2023, 11:54:10 am
And frankly....Empire is fucked in TWH3. Having Festus start in your backyard, and Beastmen, Belakor just off the NW coast and the Vampires to the east is just like.....
Every time I get to the Empire in an IE campaign, regardless of who I'm playing, it's in shambles.
Post by: scriver on February 27, 2023, 11:58:49 am
Post by: dragdeler on February 27, 2023, 12:14:00 pm
It's best to deal with him very early, like after 5-10 turns, ignore everything you wanted done right away, and go deal with him first. Also make ample use of your elector mechanics: carve out a place for yourself, AND STICK TO IT, the landmass to the northeast is ridiculously big, you will allways overextend if you grow there, instead give the settlements to your elector counts and boost them by completing the province for them, so they're a little less weak and super loyal.
It's the only way I found to "thrive" in that campaign, that being said once you're comfortable and turn west the pain continues. Not that woodelves and bretons are invincible, but their diplomatic relations will blueball you until the beastmen come from "spain" or the demons come from "england".
Post by: scriver on February 28, 2023, 05:47:18 am
Post by: Dostoevsky on February 28, 2023, 10:30:36 am
Thankfully there are some decent mods to fill out rosters a bit.
Post by: GiglameshDespair on February 28, 2023, 07:20:59 pm
It felt the most egregious for the daemons of chaos since they lean so hard into singular playstyles, but it's been pretty true for all of the factions before dlc fleshed them out. Skaven on release were very haggard to play, iirc.
Post by: Persus13 on February 28, 2023, 10:15:34 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 14, 2023, 04:42:42 pm
Standard showcase cinematic trailer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiHvsinEn58) and a blog post (https://www.totalwar.com/blog/tww3_thechaosdwarfs_astragoth/).
Looks like this pack just has 3 Legendary Lords, Astragoth Ironhand, Drazhoath the Ashen, and Zhatan the Black, but there's also a legendary hero unit as well. The blog post only goes into details on Astragoth but it also mentions that there's going to be a new magic type, Lore of Hashut, and talks about a few new units like dwarf centaurs called Bull Centaurs, and a winged creature called a Bale Taurus that seems to be the faction's dragon equivalent (and a mount option from the sound of it).
Post by: nenjin on March 15, 2023, 01:11:24 pm
Post by: Persus13 on March 15, 2023, 04:28:46 pm
Post by: nenjin on March 16, 2023, 11:17:19 pm
Post by: Dostoevsky on March 16, 2023, 11:31:22 pm
Beastmen, though... not only were they trash at launch, they were trash until the sunset of WH2 whereupon a they got a pretty solid rework that just so happened to be alongside a super-OP dlc for them. (Taurox's mechanics were toned down later, but on release he could literally beat the game on turn 1 with the right mechanic abuse.)
As to Chaos Dwarves, from the early footage it looks like most troops beyond 'labor' expendables are limited-recruit, which probably means they'll be more balanced early-game but steamroll (har har) pretty heavily once they can start fielding doomstacks. Also possible CA flubs the more complicated economy they're giving them and they'll just be painful to play a la the earlier iteration of wood elves.
Post by: Mech#4 on March 25, 2023, 03:18:35 am
Yeah, the Chaos Dwarfs have a limited recruit system for their dwarf and artillery/vehicle units. Like how the Beastmen have for their units, you spend weapons resource to increase the caps. Increasing the caps also unlocks new tiers of runes to upgrade those units with.
5:21 of the "Drazhoath the Ashen" gameplay video. (https://youtu.be/R5mVXFQvUNE?t=321)
Post by: nenjin on April 05, 2023, 06:10:14 pm
Regrettably, IMO, it's a new game mode.
Mirrors of Madness will be two new game modes focused on Tzeentch. The first mode is a series of battles where you get rated and can spend points earned from your rating on upgrading unique army abilities. Some of them do look pretty cool.....and they've added new ragdoll physics and effects. So like sucking up an entire regiment in a tornado and then flinging them across the battlefield.
The other mode is a customizable one-off battle where you can tweak all the parameters yourself. Basically a highly customizable Skirmish mode. Unit size, all the unit attributes, native game physics like gravity and ragdolling.....so if you've ever wanted to see how far you need to push TWH before it crashes the game, this is the mode for you.
I imagine this FreeLC is as much to test new features and mechanics as much as it is to tide people over. I still, to date, have zero interest in playing anything outside of IE. So I hope this isn't the dominant thrust of their future DLC plans. Although a mode focused on just one Chaos god implies the others will follow......
Post by: Persus13 on April 05, 2023, 07:07:23 pm
Post by: dragdeler on April 14, 2023, 12:11:17 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 26, 2023, 11:01:16 am
Post by: dragdeler on October 02, 2023, 05:34:13 pm
Playing dark elf campagn, I didn't realize how popular they are, never had as many dare I say loyal allies, heck I even have trading partners who have war among themselves but everybody who isn't ordertide kinda likes me.
Post by: nenjin on October 03, 2023, 08:54:49 am
Post by: dragdeler on October 03, 2023, 09:26:36 am
hehe for once its in my favor, usually it's a lord on foot that wont move because there is a single model pushing them laterally back into it's squad
Post by: dragdeler on October 10, 2023, 09:17:53 pm
I have so much stuff I'm not supposed to have, even just from the darkelves I got masters and generals and units from dlc, even two stacks of daemonettes from morathi (sadly I did not keep her buildings confederating)... but you want to know the absolute best part? My endgame scenario was vampire counts, and somehow they had a lord, and a hero isabella, guess who has a legendary hero now :).
Shit I will easily spent another week or two cheesing everything together for me to restart. Only thing that botters is morathi and malekith are skilled really bad (lokir was skilled allright I guess), then again, if any of the supreme sorceresses happens to have spiteful and shadowdart, and lore of shadow or fire, that's basically better than any of the LL.
I don't like how total war usually forces you to keep growing if you don't want to play whackamole, so basically I will whackamole everything once or twice, just so I can start over, focusing only on very few lords, not moving them in pairs, and playing a shitton of battles in manual, how silly of me. Let the reserves (those I can't disband without being able to rerecruit them) guard the few regions with landmarks I like, so I won't have -100k income every turn, tho by the time I'm starting over, I might just be rich enough to make that interesting... Would proably be cooler tho to put difficulty on L/N instead, so I regularly get to melt 2-3 armies with a single stack. Goddamnit I need more foreign heros ;D they're so hard to farm.