Post by: jonask84 on October 12, 2009, 07:03:14 pm
This used to be the official thread for feedback, questions, requests or bug reports.
Please see the new Official Stonesense Thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106497)
We are always looking for help on Stonesense, and we are in particular looking for isometric sprite artists.
So if you want to join us in creating the Official Stonesense tileset, let us know by posting in this thread!
Please note however, we must reserve the right to screen contributions.
We do this to preserve a consistent look for the official tileset, hope you understand:)
Latest Version
Stonesense is currently being maintained and distributed as a part of the DFHack package, for more details see the DFHack thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.0).
Stonesense Slate 2.3:
Most recent stand-alone release.
Download Stonesense Slate (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_2.3.zip)
DF31.21 compatible.
The Stonesense Content Repository
The Stonesense Content Repository (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository) is where you will find user made
extension packs to improve and customize your Stonesense installation.
And if you're a modder or artist, this is the place to show people your work!
Note: Stonesense Slate is only compatible with the 2010 versions of DF, that is 31.x. If you are using an older version of DF, the Granite release is still available (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/downloads/list).
If stuff's not working
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
changelog:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Known issues:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Screenshots:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Frozenhalls (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Videos:
Intro by KaelGotDwarves (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUYIZsu664&fmt=22)
Press:
PC Gamer UK (http://i.imgur.com/eEuqM.jpg)
Destructoid (http://www.destructoid.com/new-stonesense-visualizer-makes-dwarf-fortress-playable-154149.phtml)
TIGSource (http://tigsource.com/articles/2009/11/03/stonesense-dwarf-fortress-visualizer)
Game Set Watch (http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2009/11/stonesense_isometric_dwarf_for.php)
Project homepage:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/)
On DFWiki:
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense)
Currently Stonesense is being developed by Jonask, Japa, Solifuge and Kaypy.
Post by: Need_More_War! on October 12, 2009, 07:11:13 pm
Post by: tefalo on October 12, 2009, 07:25:47 pm
Now all there's left is to be able to play the game entirely through this... :3
Post by: Razoric480 on October 12, 2009, 07:26:44 pm
For some reason, it's displaying only one table and one chair only out of my entire dining chamber. Not sure why that one specifically.
Otherwise, it's a very nice start! I do like.
Post by: Solifuge on October 12, 2009, 07:30:16 pm
That is badass.One step at a time, Tefalo... One step at a time.
Now all there's left is to be able to play the game entirely through this... :3
If you'd like, you can hold down the [R] key while running DF unpaused, and it will show constructions being built, tunnels being mined, and water pouring off cliffs. I suggest you screw the manual and run it unpaused... but don't tell Jonask I told you to.
Post by: tefalo on October 12, 2009, 07:38:01 pm
I did try refreshing, it was almost too much awesomeness for me to handle.
Also, you clearly have legendary pixel sprite drawing. These sprites are 100% authentic vintage sprites ala 90's!
Post by: ChocoHearts on October 12, 2009, 07:38:33 pm
Doesn't show doors, and doesn't show different colors for various minerals and so forth. I'm also noticing some oddities where doors are supposed to be (the texture for the walls next to doors is different - I assume it's the pillar tile, but I'm not sure for sure.
Finally, sooner or later it'll need a way to rotate 90° - perhaps keeping a small compass to remind us which way's north?
Post by: Christes on October 12, 2009, 07:42:14 pm
Post by: Mondark on October 12, 2009, 07:45:23 pm
A few quick requests for the next version: Some means of jumping to the current view in DF, or the cursor location, and a means of rotating the map to see around mountains, etc. (And of course workshops,etc. but I assume you already have that planned)
Also, the constructed ramps I used for a roof in my game don't seem to show up quite right, as seen in this image.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you'd like, you can hold down the [R] key while running DF unpaused, and it will show constructions being built, tunnels being mined, and water pouring off cliffs. I suggest you screw the manual and run it unpaused... but don't tell Jonask I told you to.
Good heavens, that actually works! We just need some dwarf graphics now.
After a bit of exploring, I discovered that it also works for adventure mode, respecting adventurer los (except for water.)
I can't get over how good this looks.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 12, 2009, 07:58:40 pm
will hence only run on Windows or compatible emulators.Boooo ;)
We apologize for this, but for this first release it was more important to get it out.
Quote
QuestionsNot that Sol's tiles aren't grand (they are) but- custom tilesets supported?
In other sizes?
Post by: darkflagrance on October 12, 2009, 08:14:25 pm
Edit: Also, I'm using vanilla on XP, but it doesn't seem to detect it.
Edit2: nevermind, got it to work. But there are spots where random statues and such don't get displayed. Otherwise, it works beautifully.
Post by: Razoric480 on October 12, 2009, 08:16:37 pm
Post by: Christes on October 12, 2009, 08:17:40 pm
Post by: Solifuge on October 12, 2009, 08:23:04 pm
Not that Sol's tiles aren't grand (they are) but- custom tilesets supported?
In other sizes?
Yes indeed, though why you'd want to rob yourself of such beautiful pixel art, I can't imagine.
Seriously though, as long as you can edit in the file format, you can make custom tiles. There's no tile-by-tile guide right now, and the size is fixed at 32x32 for blocks, and 32x16 for floors, but you can tweak them to your hearts content. You could even replace them with letters and symbols, and make the most roundabout visualization ever!
Post by: Razoric480 on October 12, 2009, 08:23:25 pm
Edit: Also, I'm using vanilla on XP, but it doesn't seem to detect it.
Are you sure it's not detecting it, or that it's just not showing a visible tile? Try using page down or page up until you see the ground.
Post by: jonask84 on October 12, 2009, 08:27:11 pm
If you want to subscribe to our mailing list, its at
http://groups.google.com/group/stonesense
Now for some questions:
Clearly there are windows 7 issues. I'm gonna look into this. Does it help to run in compatibility mode?
@CobaltKobold: yes they are, the sprites are stored as bitmaps :) the size is fixed though.
@ChocoHearts: rotating the view seems to be on everyone's wishlist. It's on my todo list now.
@Christes: any building can have any sprite. The yellow cubes are default. I forgot to fix the pump :p
Post by: Razoric480 on October 12, 2009, 08:30:09 pm
Post by: Vynergy on October 12, 2009, 08:46:55 pm
Once the entire game can be played through this.... my life will have new meaning :p
Post by: Rolan7 on October 12, 2009, 09:02:11 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 12, 2009, 09:37:33 pm
P.S. Nice to see you came up with a name, though I think theirs was a Reveal-like tool that had the same or a similar name.
Post by: SeaBee on October 12, 2009, 09:43:01 pm
Can't wait to see what this looks like in a month or two. *Neo: whoa.*
Post by: Markavian on October 12, 2009, 09:48:20 pm
Two things I want to do:
- jonask84 - if / when you make the code opensource, I'd like to port it to Flash AS3 and use a version of it on the Map Archive to view existing maps.
- Solifuge - with your permission, I might be able to use your graphics with some existing code I've got for a map/viewer before jonask84 make's his release available.
Either way, being able to provide an isometric view of maps on the map archive would be of huge benefit to everyone in the community and give us a whole new world of content to explore.
(Ref: http://www.mkv25.net/df/isometric/viewer/dfma_isometric_mapviewer_b2i.swf)
(Ref: http://www.mkv25.net/df/isometric/artwork/df_isometric_tiles_small.png)
Best regards,
- Markavian
Post by: Chromie on October 12, 2009, 09:55:52 pm
Post by: Solifuge on October 12, 2009, 10:00:36 pm
I can post a more complete tile listing soon. We have all graphics represented as either a Floor or a Block/Wall, in 32x32 resolution. Also, all tiles aren't complete yet, but there's a bit there.
Post by: ricemastah on October 12, 2009, 10:02:17 pm
Post by: Markavian on October 12, 2009, 10:07:43 pm
I can post a more complete tile listing soon. We have all graphics represented as either a Floor or a Block/Wall, in 32x32 resolution. Also, all tiles aren't complete yet, but there's a bit there.
Cool, I'd like to work with you if I can. What stalled my project was lack of artwork, and I don't have the benefit of raw map data so I can't generalise and split dwarves away from tile data.
I posted a screenshot from the utility of my fortress here:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-5296-ultragear#lastComment
Edit: Suggestion: Shift + Direction moves the map by a larger amount (10 blocks?) its tedious to move around the map at the moment.
Also, a "find surface" button would be cool, like Home or something to bring the viewer to the surface.
You could also default the map to be positioned in center-center-ground level on first load.
Regards,
- Markavian
Post by: Razoric480 on October 12, 2009, 10:40:47 pm
Edit: Suggestion: Shift + Direction moves the map by a larger amount (10 blocks?) its tedious to move around the map at the moment.
That's already in.
Post by: darius on October 12, 2009, 11:26:24 pm
Code: [Select]
pointer_x_pos == 0x05662B4
pointer_y_pos == 0x05662B8
pointer_z_pos == 0x05662BC
window_x_pos == 0x09A060C
window_y_pos == 0x09CE6B8
window_z_pos == 0x09CE694
Use these. Unfortunately don't have linux addresses. Now that i think about it, this should go to DFHACK?
Post by: 0x517A5D on October 13, 2009, 12:19:04 am
the name? Stone sense?
It's kind of...
taken (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=836).
Really. For over a year.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 13, 2009, 12:29:41 am
@CobaltKobold: yes they are, the sprites are stored as bitmaps :) the size is fixed though....aww. hope this gets fixed before I get to it, since I'm working on a retro DF tileset in that vein. Anything multiple 4 should work for this angle-pattern- though not much smaller than 16x(16, 8 floor) would work well. (I'm sure some enterprising artists could prove me wrong, but that's another discussion)
Post by: Taal on October 13, 2009, 12:31:41 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1315
It allowed users to play Dwarf fortress through the application on there computer, and others through the internet or a network. In a sense Multiplayer as long as only one person played it at a time. However you could only control DF using keyboard control, no mouse input (I never use the mouse anyway).
If you guys were to utilize the same system (It's open source) or a similar system, you might be able to allow gameplay through your program.
DF in Isometric view.
Edit:
Also, as with Macro-Writing Programs, I know that commands can be passed back to Dwarf Fortress program as well.
Turns out you do.
Post by: DennyTom on October 13, 2009, 01:36:54 am
- cave in
- world on fire or fireball or dragons breath
- waterfall
Thank you very much
Post by: AlienChickenPie on October 13, 2009, 01:50:25 am
Edit: This program is awesome. I just wish it could have a larger draw area.
Scenes from SparkGear 6
Magma flood
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Power Conduits
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Magma Death Road
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Magma Showers
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deon on October 13, 2009, 02:23:07 am
So...
the name? Stone sense?
It's kind of...
taken (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=836).
Really. For over a year.
This is the first thing I thought when I looked at the thread name. I thought you re-released your old program :).
Anyway, good work! Pick a suitable name and it's great. I like the design of the visual part.
Post by: Solifuge on October 13, 2009, 03:52:01 am
Post by: peterix on October 13, 2009, 06:38:07 am
A little suggestion:Code: [Select]pointer_x_pos == 0x05662B4Use these. Unfortunately don't have linux addresses. Now that i think about it, this should go to DFHACK?
pointer_y_pos == 0x05662B8
pointer_z_pos == 0x05662BC
window_x_pos == 0x09A060C
window_y_pos == 0x09CE6B8
window_z_pos == 0x09CE694
Yes, this should go to dfhack. What version is it for?
Post by: cooz on October 13, 2009, 07:25:26 am
this program's just awsome! I'm waiting for menus so we can actually play DF in it ;)
My only concern are objects hidden behind walls, 90 degree rotation will probably fix it somehow, but i had another idea...
I modified objects.pcx so walls have half of its original height and i think it works quite well:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Maybe at some point key bind to toggle full/half walls height would be solution for that.
Oh, and here's problem with not visible ground edge - i think black border would do the trick.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ampersand on October 13, 2009, 07:49:59 am
Post by: DennyTom on October 13, 2009, 08:09:07 am
Post by: dyze on October 13, 2009, 10:06:36 am
Post by: Christes on October 13, 2009, 10:55:03 am
Urist McHunter cancels hunt: interrupted by Ethereal
Urist McHunter has been struck down
Post by: tefalo on October 13, 2009, 11:33:43 am
You do realize that you have created the concept for one of the most epic crossovers now, do you?
Post by: Christes on October 13, 2009, 11:37:41 am
Post by: Footkerchief on October 13, 2009, 12:17:53 pm
I'm not sure I like what some of you guys are saying. Toady has said several times that he is very uncomfortable with having third party full on interfaces. He doesn't want to have to worry about modifying Dwarf Fortress to meet the demands of the interface, among other things.
I do not get that argument - if he does not want to modify game to meet demands of third party interface, then he will not modify it. It is his game after all.
Spoiler: long Toadquotes on the subject (click to show/hide)
. But I don't know if you see that as a relief.What to take away from the above? As far as I can tell, he's a little uncomfortable with visualizers, he'd be more uncomfortable with a full-on third party interface, and he'd be really uncomfortable with directly providing support for such an interface. However, he also seems to understand that it's inevitable that people will at least try, and won't resent them doing so.
Personally I think it's somewhat irrelevant since the interface idea is doomed, barring some very major breakthroughs in memhacking menu states etc.
Post by: DennyTom on October 13, 2009, 12:57:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: cooz on October 13, 2009, 01:00:30 pm
I have made three simple mockups solving problem with dificult recognition of edges.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Could you add 1px wide black (or dark blue) border to those?
Post by: Randominality on October 13, 2009, 01:00:51 pm
Maybe at some point key bind to toggle full/half walls height would be solution for that.
THIS. Or what I would really love, but is apparently exceedingly hard to do, is a toggle that only makes the foreground walls half height a la The Sims.
Post by: DennyTom on October 13, 2009, 01:03:42 pm
I have made three simple mockups solving problem with dificult recognition of edges.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Could you add 1px wide black (or dark blue) border to those?
Not sure what to border...
Post by: Goinstadi on October 13, 2009, 01:25:22 pm
Rotation Keys
Larger Rendered Area
Render Map w/ Mouse Functionality
I also like the half wall bit that cooz posted.
Post by: Wh1tefang12 on October 13, 2009, 02:19:18 pm
Post by: Slogo on October 13, 2009, 02:39:09 pm
Post by: 0x517A5D on October 13, 2009, 03:04:17 pm
Didn't mean to infringe on the name when I proposed it; [...]
I do like the sound of it too. Do you have an issue with sharing the name, since both are already taken by TSR/Forgotten Realms? :P
I can deal with sharing the name, though it does make me a bit uncomfortable. It's a source of confusion, and means I need to monitor more forum threads that aren't related to my own work. I'll deal with it.
Post by: cooz on October 13, 2009, 03:24:30 pm
I have made three simple mockups solving problem with dificult recognition of edges.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Could you add 1px wide black (or dark blue) border to those?
Not sure what to border...
I meant that 3 pixels wide borders you made are too thick IMHO, and 1px would be more than enough.
Just wanted to see it, without doing it in PS by myself.
Post by: Idles on October 13, 2009, 04:42:31 pm
Also, whoever's in charge should send a non-threatening email to Toady to let him know that this kind of graphics is quite possible, and already works(!!!), with DF. Also let him know that since this is BSD licensed, he does not have to worry at all about any copyright issues. It might convince him to add some helper functions to the main executable so this graphics library could be used as part of an official future release. He seems willing enough to accept graphics help (see DF 40D##).
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 13, 2009, 05:18:42 pm
This one is a bit too good. Please decrease the quality a bit. ;)))
Seriously though, I can't wait till it supports projections other than isometric :) This will be a wonderful testing tool for an actual in-game display.
Post by: peterix on October 13, 2009, 05:40:10 pm
Is there any support planned for texture transparency and colorizing? Also, this is probably more of a general DFHack question, but what's going to be done in the next version when the basic MATGLOSS types (wood, metal, stone, etc.) no longer exist? There'll still be helper tags like [WOOD] in the material definitions, but they won't be indexed on a predictable basis.Well... what will happen:
I or someone else will have to fire up a debugger/disassembler and find out how things work. I bet there will be some 'materials' vector and a second 'material types' one. Actually, this will make it easier for me, because it will be much more consistent than the current way of doing things (multiple material vectors). Maybe.
Second possibility is that there will be an extra 'custom' material type and all the old ones will remain (almost) the same.
Post by: jonask84 on October 13, 2009, 05:48:45 pm
So, I've been making some upgrades to the user interface today. Trying to listen to the feedback and critique I've made some adjustments and some improvements.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2cwqyyb.png)
This picture showcases two of the new features. First in an option for filling hidden areas with black to remove some underground clutter. Secondly you can see some gray borders, hopefully making it easier to tell z-levels apart.
Also some other features have been added. It's looking good :)
Post by: quinnr on October 13, 2009, 05:52:10 pm
Post by: quinnr on October 13, 2009, 06:09:21 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 13, 2009, 06:18:04 pm
Post by: Realmfighter on October 13, 2009, 06:52:20 pm
Alright, Windows 7 and Windows Vista will revert to basic display for some programs, has anyone tried this with Vista? I'm gonna do it later with my vista comp.yes. and it worked fine.
Post by: LegoLord on October 13, 2009, 07:27:22 pm
Post by: pokute on October 13, 2009, 08:38:09 pm
Post by: quinnr on October 13, 2009, 09:06:13 pm
Post by: Flying Carcass on October 13, 2009, 10:51:09 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 14, 2009, 12:10:17 am
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on October 14, 2009, 12:22:06 am
Post by: Razoric480 on October 14, 2009, 12:22:52 am
Post by: KillHour on October 14, 2009, 12:27:19 am
Post by: Fist_Of_Armok on October 14, 2009, 01:18:51 am
Now I can finally get a good look at Thobtishak!
Post by: cooz on October 14, 2009, 01:41:34 am
am I guessing right that square in upper right corner will be mini map with "standard" top-down view? :)
Post by: Ampersand on October 14, 2009, 01:59:33 am
Post by: Footkerchief on October 14, 2009, 02:17:27 am
If I may make a suggestion, rather than having a border to differentiate tiles, I think the primary reason that floor tiles on different levels tend to look contiguous is simply because perfect cubes are used. if the shapes were a pixel or so taller, the floors would no longer be apparently contiguous.
I honestly don't get the point of displaying floors on the above Z-level in single-slice mode. Wouldn't it be easier to just give the walls a distinct top texture?
Post by: Rose on October 14, 2009, 07:22:19 am
I'm on windows and I can only exit by pressing esc, or by ending the process. the close button is disabled.
Post by: cooz on October 14, 2009, 07:45:08 am
very strange problem.
I'm on windows and I can only exit by pressing esc, or by ending the process. the close button is disabled.
I have same thing here on win7, but I'm not sure is it "problem" or it was made that way intentional for some reasons.
Post by: jonask84 on October 14, 2009, 10:12:24 am
Let me first say, there's a new version ready. It'll ship as soon as i type up the changelog.
@Japa and cooz: intentional, it's the way the GPU interface works. Possibly there is a hook for the x button, but for now ESC will have to do :)
@Footkerchief: you're right. but the problem occurs on levels BELLOW the current z-level. It's being fixed in the new release though.
@Ampersand: that's how i solved the problem in the prototyping. Only problem is, it looks kinda disproportionate.
@cooz: about the minimap, you're right :) I'll try it out, and if it works well I'll include it.
@Windows 7 users: Im sorry about the incompatibility issues. The new version supports fullscreen, which might fix things.
@Linux users: I was thinking Codeplex to host the project. What do you guys think?
To everyone else, thanks for all the kind words and the feedback :)
Together I'm sure we can make an awesome visualizer, and perhaps more.
Post by: Puck on October 14, 2009, 10:14:49 am
I dont even want to be able to play using isoview, I'd HATE that. I like the top down view for designating.
Personally I'd just love the ability to have an isometric viewer on screen 2 and the option to "tie" it to the view of the DF window. ie, just show what I'm seeing or just show a different area.
Post by: kurokikaze on October 14, 2009, 10:29:38 am
Post by: kurokikaze on October 14, 2009, 10:39:44 am
Post by: Rose on October 14, 2009, 10:44:11 am
also, the possibility of semitransparency would be nice :P
Post by: cooz on October 14, 2009, 10:45:18 am
@cooz: about the minimap, you're right :) I'll try it out, and if it works well I'll include it.
Yeah, nifty idea. That way wherever isometric view could be ambiguous, minimap would made everything clear :)
kurokikaze, good for ya man, you got +1 for micro double posting.
Post by: jonask84 on October 14, 2009, 10:47:26 am
Post by: Razoric480 on October 14, 2009, 10:52:47 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 14, 2009, 10:56:36 am
Post by: Razoric480 on October 14, 2009, 10:59:26 am
Post by: KFJ on October 14, 2009, 11:01:18 am
How do I switch off fullscreen, though? :S
Post by: jonask84 on October 14, 2009, 11:04:44 am
Lots of things will be configurable in the future. Right now it's cost v benefit analysis on my part :)
@KFJ: in the init.txt file
Post by: Razoric480 on October 14, 2009, 11:05:19 am
You can also increase the draw-size. I like 35x35, it's bigger without being too slow. AT least on my comp.
Post by: Hawkfrost on October 14, 2009, 11:12:16 am
Post by: Rose on October 14, 2009, 11:16:14 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
the maximum allowed Z range isn't enough :(
Post by: TheTrueBenis on October 14, 2009, 11:24:23 am
Post by: dyze on October 14, 2009, 12:22:43 pm
Personally I'd just love the ability to have an isometric viewer on screen 2 and the option to "tie" it to the view of the DF window. ie, just show what I'm seeing or just show a different area.
this sound like a very sensible idea!
Post by: jonask84 on October 14, 2009, 12:29:35 pm
Personally I'd just love the ability to have an isometric viewer on screen 2 and the option to "tie" it to the view of the DF window. ie, just show what I'm seeing or just show a different area.
this sound like a very sensible idea!
That's very much possible with the new release. Use auto reload and run windowed
Edit: oops. answered a little too quickly. it's not possible to link to the cursor. Yet. I think peterix was going to have a look at that?
Post by: Slogo on October 14, 2009, 12:52:37 pm
Post by: Markavian on October 14, 2009, 03:35:54 pm
Good progress with your new release, feels like a proper utility now.
Wish list:
- Identify more elements in the game with graphics, especially dwarves.
- Display smoothed corner blocks as chamfered corners so that diagonal corridors look smooth
Suggestions:
- Fix shift - Shift+Arrow only works with Left shift key, not Right shift
- Use the screen same ratio when stretching to fill the screen and pad the space left/right for wide screen monitors.
- Output screenshots as PNG files - use the name of the fortress as a prefix
- Improve display logic for ramps - see screenshot 1
More screenshots:
http://mkv25.net/df/ultragear_screenshot1.png
http://mkv25.net/df/ultragear_screenshot2.png
http://mkv25.net/df/ultragear_screenshot3.png
Notice in screenshot 1, the series of ramps that get displayed as "pinnacles".
Because they in a row- I imagine they'd form roof tiles and be slanted all the way up.
Best regards,
- Markavian
Post by: Slogo on October 14, 2009, 03:40:11 pm
Post by: quinnr on October 14, 2009, 05:56:14 pm
I'm using Windows Vista.
It's AWESOME! Keep up the great work!
Post by: Rose on October 14, 2009, 06:08:54 pm
Post by: Taal on October 14, 2009, 06:37:51 pm
It might be good for screenshots but I'd prefer to see the single Z-level.
Post by: pokute on October 14, 2009, 06:51:50 pm
I'd like to give a vote to having an option to show more then one Z-level or not.
It might be good for screenshots but I'd prefer to see the single Z-level.
I'd love to see this taken one step further to allow the user to specify how many Z-levels are visible.
Post by: Rose on October 14, 2009, 07:01:00 pm
did you try the new version yet?
Post by: pokute on October 15, 2009, 12:29:19 am
uuhhh.... you can.
did you try the new version yet?
I only see the option to toggle showing just a single Z-level.
Post by: cooz on October 15, 2009, 02:22:47 am
uuhhh.... you can.
did you try the new version yet?
I only see the option to toggle showing just a single Z-level.
And you can set how many Z-levels are visible in init.txt.
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 15, 2009, 04:23:45 am
Post by: Great Cthulhu on October 15, 2009, 04:24:11 am
@Linux users: I was thinking Codeplex to host the project. What do you guys think?Use whatever you feel most comfortable with. :) I'm a little skeptical about Microsoft's open source commitment, but otherwise Codeplex seems fine. Will stick with Google Code for my own projects though. ;D
Disclaimer: only an occasional linux user nowadays.
Post by: pokute on October 15, 2009, 02:36:18 pm
uuhhh.... you can.
did you try the new version yet?
I only see the option to toggle showing just a single Z-level.
And you can set how many Z-levels are visible in init.txt.
Ah, I was hoping for something a bit more... dynamic without having to restart the application.
Post by: quinnr on October 15, 2009, 10:09:53 pm
Post by: Telcontar on October 16, 2009, 01:36:12 am
Post by: quinnr on October 17, 2009, 12:09:36 am
NOT ACCEPTABLE!
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 17, 2009, 05:12:08 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 17, 2009, 08:22:45 am
I was thinking first, I need to get those constructed ramps fixed? any other suggestions?
By the way, I love the screenshots guys. If you get any interesting one's, I'd love to see.
Post by: Karnewarrior on October 17, 2009, 09:05:27 am
Post by: Razoric480 on October 17, 2009, 09:21:29 am
2 - Start Stonesense
3 - Hit page up or page down until you see some soil, to get your bearrings
4 - Start moving the cursor in the top right minimap with the arrow keys until you find your fortress (or hold down shift to go faster)
Post by: quinnr on October 17, 2009, 04:54:11 pm
Post by: sava2004 on October 17, 2009, 10:11:53 pm
Oh, nvm. i just read through the article a bit more and found out that it will.
(oh hey, i recognize this from beta! wow this thing has changed.)
Post by: Rose on October 18, 2009, 12:36:10 am
(oh hey, i recognize this from beta!)
umm...... how did you see the beta if it's still in alpha?
Post by: Christes on October 18, 2009, 12:49:32 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 18, 2009, 01:01:10 am
Post by: MP2E on October 18, 2009, 01:26:59 am
I patiently await the linux build :D I'd be willing to build an x64 Linux build if you want(and hell, the 32-bit build too, I have multi-lib GCC installed)
Playing a full game of Dwarf Fortress in this would just make my head explode
Post by: Christes on October 18, 2009, 01:27:54 am
Or that technically it IS in beta (if I read right and 'public alpha' is an oxymoron)
Isn't dwarf fortress still called alpha too?
Post by: Myroc on October 18, 2009, 08:09:59 am
Post by: roBurky on October 18, 2009, 11:36:35 am
Edit: Ah, it needed the latest version of DF.
Post by: Neruz on October 19, 2009, 03:54:13 am
Post by: Chonker on October 19, 2009, 02:47:26 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on October 19, 2009, 04:05:48 pm
A couple of questions though:
1) Does Stonesense have any ability to show actual dwarves/other critters yet? I don't see one yet, but the original pics had them, so that would be neat to implement to see in a future (hopefully soon) version.
2) Would it be possible to fill the screen with the display (rather than just a smaller cube) as an option? Granted, you wouldn't be able to see underground structures as clearly, but it would lead to a more seamless display on the current level.
3) Auto-refresh? I can hold down R if need be, but a feature to turn this on/off would be nice too. My machine is plenty powerful to run the auto-refreshing stone sense along with the 40d16 build of DF.
Anyways, great project! I'm going to have to keep more of an eye on this.
Post by: timmeh on October 19, 2009, 09:58:28 pm
Never mind, I found the settings, Janus' suggestion for making it fill the screen would definitely make it even better though. Perhaps only fill the entire screen if it's set to the single-layer view?
None-the-less, very, very well done, this is beautiful!
Post by: Nordic dorf on October 19, 2009, 10:22:38 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 20, 2009, 05:56:58 am
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/
Stay tuned
Post by: Radtoo on October 20, 2009, 06:44:48 am
Here's the latest: We're opening up everything.
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/
Stay tuned
Awesome! I hope this goes a long way - including to native linux, of course... :p
Post by: jonask84 on October 20, 2009, 07:02:07 am
BTW, I will be on IRC (#bay12games @ irc.newnet.net) for immediate feedback, so drop by :)
All the code has now been checked into the Google Code repository. I know some of it is half complete, fuggly and hackish, and now it's out there for everyone to see. I believe this is the best way to keep the project clean, and inspire and recruit resourceful developers out there.
The very best,
- J
Post by: Taal on October 20, 2009, 05:22:14 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 20, 2009, 05:26:27 pm
Just means the code looks like shit ,)
Post by: Beefree on October 20, 2009, 05:48:23 pm
I demand to see an Isometric view of Urist McRecruit's dead body laying in my lake filled with Carp.
Post by: MP2E on October 20, 2009, 08:57:49 pm
No no no, I'm working on it right now. Big press pot of coffee going.Indeed :( I tried getting stone sense to compile in linux but it was pretty difficult. I ended up giving up after an hour or so of messing around with it. I did get it farther by grabbing the latest SVN of dfhack and putting that it in place of your "hacked" version, but my attempt to make a cmake file for this project was pretty pitiful.
Just means the code looks like shit ,)
Post by: timmeh on October 20, 2009, 09:12:35 pm
Absolutely loving this though, I'm going to try hooking my computer into my brother's TV later and see if I can run this, auto-updating, on one screen (can it auto-update? I thought I saw something to that effect...) and DF on the other...
Amazing work though, looking forward to watching this progress... I'll have to download the source later and see how much of it I understand...
Post by: quinnr on October 20, 2009, 09:13:19 pm
It's really awesome though.
Post by: strich on October 20, 2009, 09:33:10 pm
Because if you did, you'd realize you can hit + and - (From the numpad!) to increase/decrease auto-update speed.
Post by: JanusTwoface on October 20, 2009, 09:39:44 pm
Does anyone ever read the README's?
Because if you did, you'd realize you can hit + and - (From the numpad!) to increase/decrease auto-update speed.
Quote from: README
--==debug keys==--
(prolly not useful for you guys)
D: redraw screen
R: reload memory from DF
G: reload sprites from disk
Numpad + and -: Set automatic reload
I see it now though, thanks. ;D
Post by: timmeh on October 20, 2009, 09:46:48 pm
Post by: quinnr on October 21, 2009, 05:32:54 am
Post by: Sheb on October 21, 2009, 07:43:53 am
Post by: nagual678 on October 21, 2009, 09:22:47 am
Post by: Haspen on October 21, 2009, 03:37:08 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on October 21, 2009, 03:49:53 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 21, 2009, 05:04:34 pm
Here's one Japa took of the Reinhammers fortress
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, we are now looking for more people. See the first post for details.
Now for some questions.
@timmeh: I see your point, we'll have a look at the vegetation palette.
@MP2E: I know. I'm really sorry about the state of the code. I had a longer session with peterix last night trying to get it to compile. I promise though, we will get there. I know I've been sloppy :p Time to market has been my priority.
@JanusTwoface: 1: Agreed. Creatures is #1 on my wishlist. Right now it's limited by what info I can read from dfHack.
2: filling the screen is very much possible. it's just a performance issue, so I'll add an option for it.
3: Auto-refresh was in since alpha 2, just use + and - on the numpad :)
@pokute: Fine. It's in the trunk now, and will be out next release :) keys 1 and 2 change the size of the block in the z dimension.
Post by: dyze on October 21, 2009, 06:32:41 pm
i was thinking about the water, rivers and such, wouldnt it look better if it didnt go all the way up to the edge?
edit: made a small mock up, tried semi transparent water on the right (no idea if that'd work technically in your engine. looks quite nice tho :))
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/1637/49628773.jpg)
Post by: quinnr on October 21, 2009, 07:00:44 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 21, 2009, 07:04:49 pm
It does look better. But what about when water is stacked? Like a deep lake. You'd get little holes
Post by: dyze on October 21, 2009, 07:15:09 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 21, 2009, 07:18:23 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on October 21, 2009, 07:21:33 pm
Of course, then you're stuck with 7 different sets of water tiles plus the annoyance of figuring out what to do when you have mismatched levels next to each other.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 21, 2009, 09:03:23 pm
Do you draw steam/dust/miasma/etc yet? I was thinking about those, and those would be suited more to multiple alpha le'els (since they basically have opaque/75%/50%/25% already) for their tiles.
I'm guessing you don't distinguish subtypes yet.
Post by: Neruz on October 21, 2009, 09:45:19 pm
In theory you could actually have different levels show for 1-7 of water, which would be awesome. Assuming you can get the data, of course, but since you can display water levels in DF that sounds doable.
Of course, then you're stuck with 7 different sets of water tiles plus the annoyance of figuring out what to do when you have mismatched levels next to each other.
At the moment due to the sprite-based implimentation i'd just ignore mismatched water levels. getting the functionality in is more important than fine-tuning the details.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 21, 2009, 11:56:41 pm
We are now looking for artists.Mayday! Mayday!
So if you want to join us in creating the Official Stonesense tileset,
let us know by posting in this thread!
Please note however, we must reserve the right to screen contributions.
(this is a pune, or play on words)
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 22, 2009, 01:09:43 am
Here's some 16x16 ones I did for the dwarf therapist thread. Just let me know what subjects & dimensions- 32X32, right?
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/7140/axec.png)(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/4552/xswords3.png)(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2799/treegg.png)(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/7509/barrow.png)(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9140/dig3.png)(http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/3609/fdrink2.png)
(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/7203/buildr.png)(http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/6569/haul.png)(http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/1370/food.png)(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/1039/drinke.png)(http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6916/adminfo.png)
Post by: Sheb on October 22, 2009, 01:33:08 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 22, 2009, 07:22:41 am
I'm sure you've had a look at the artwork that's in already, and if not you really should, they're all in the objects.pcx file. Solifuge has been working hard on it, and I think it looks great :)
It is really important to keep to the same visual style, that's why I think we should do some simple trials first. I hope you agree that is reasonable :) We have a lot of sprites to make, and so the help is very much appreciated!
Why don't we start out simple; with two Containers. A leather bag, and a rock coffer. make either one, doesn't matter, we need both. These shouldn't be too hard :)
These are the buildings you place with b-h, and depending on the material used to construct it you get either a chest (wood), coffer (rock) or bag (textiles). Right now we have the wooden chest (again, see the objects.pcx image), but I think it would be nice to be able to show different kinds of containers too.
The sprite dimensions are, as you guessed, 32x32. And be sure to have clear cut edges (no fading to the background).
Again, thanks for your interest. I think if we all pitch in, we can make something to really show toady how this game can look!
Good luck guys!
Post by: TauQuebb on October 22, 2009, 08:19:04 am
Post by: KillHour on October 22, 2009, 01:28:58 pm
In theory you could actually have different levels show for 1-7 of water, which would be awesome. Assuming you can get the data, of course, but since you can display water levels in DF that sounds doable.
Of course, then you're stuck with 7 different sets of water tiles plus the annoyance of figuring out what to do when you have mismatched levels next to each other.
At the moment due to the sprite-based implimentation i'd just ignore mismatched water levels. getting the functionality in is more important than fine-tuning the details.
Look at the .pcx file. This is something Stonesense has and HAS HAD since day one.
Post by: Fist_Of_Armok on October 22, 2009, 11:43:01 pm
In theory you could actually have different levels show for 1-7 of water, which would be awesome. Assuming you can get the data, of course, but since you can display water levels in DF that sounds doable.
Of course, then you're stuck with 7 different sets of water tiles plus the annoyance of figuring out what to do when you have mismatched levels next to each other.
At the moment due to the sprite-based implimentation i'd just ignore mismatched water levels. getting the functionality in is more important than fine-tuning the details.
Look at the .pcx file. This is something Stonesense has and HAS HAD since day one.
Then...all that's needed is to make the first two or three transparent, right?
Of course, the trick is to make sure it's only the top top-deep things, like lakes, will be troublesome.
As if the carp weren't bad enough.
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 23, 2009, 01:21:58 am
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/6435/sack6.png)(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/2781/coffer.png)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 23, 2009, 02:09:49 am
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 23, 2009, 04:02:49 am
(http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/976/glasscoffer2.png)(http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5960/woodcoffer.png)
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 23, 2009, 04:22:37 am
Palettizing the metal in general (and perhaps the stone) is probably a good idea, or you'll make a lot of DF art not show.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 23, 2009, 05:48:53 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 23, 2009, 07:13:24 am
@IDreamOfGiniCoefficient: Those look really good, I especially like the bag. I'll add some logic and put them into the engine, see how they look :)
@Impaler[WrG] and CobaltKobold: Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I was playing with a scheme for replacing certain RGB values and autogenerating various materials. It's on my list :)
About the water thing: I've made some updates, following dyze's suggestion, and it looks really nice. I'm also considering a fix for the 'pancake waterfall' issue.
But at this point it really comes down to the fact that we need more artwork.
Would people be interested in a list of sprites needed? I could whip that up...
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 23, 2009, 08:46:29 am
Post by: TauQuebb on October 23, 2009, 08:48:17 am
Ive done some sprite art before in the past, but not much for DF.
Post by: kaypy on October 23, 2009, 08:57:56 am
Heres a first attempt at chains and ropes. Not terribly happy with it, but its better than a yellow box until someone can do a better job.
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/chain_rope.png)
Would workshops best be done as individual tiles or as one big block?
Post by: jonask84 on October 23, 2009, 09:01:42 am
kaypy: awesome! I agree, anything's better than the yellow boxes. Larger buildings we do as individual tiles. That way we can also reuse sprites (like some workshops can have tables in them)
I will be on IRC for a time now, on #dfhack at freenode.net
If any of you have time to stop by, I could clarify a few things
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 23, 2009, 09:12:36 am
@Impaler[WrG] and CobaltKobold: Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. I was playing with a scheme for replacing certain RGB values and autogenerating various materials.Possibly might want to do something strange like having two-channel graphics for the paletted ones- fg/bg, since materials do (I'm pretty sure) all have a pair of colors..e'en if they are just out of the 16-color palette.
Post by: kaypy on October 23, 2009, 09:51:02 am
Since workshops have a combination of floor tiles and impassable tiles, I thought it might be best to have some sort of standard border plus whatever 'building' tiles are appropriate for the workshop type.
After a quick detour to pillage shamelessly from the Visual Fortress thread, heres my take on a kitchen. Or at least my rendition of Grey Hunters take on a kitchen...
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/kitchen.png)
(The lighter pink tiles are just to help me keep track of floor space, and should be replaces by a solid block)
Post by: kaypy on October 23, 2009, 11:28:40 am
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/carpenters.png)
Just don't ask me how that circular saw works. 8-)
Post by: Belal on October 23, 2009, 11:55:03 am
The main things you have to change are capitalization issues in some of the dfhack header files you changed, as well as some include directives. In addition I had to install the allegro libraries before compiling, they are available at http://alleg.sourceforge.net/ (http://alleg.sourceforge.net/)
get the stonesense source with svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ stonesense
then do the following steps
the incorrect filenames are
in dfhack/libraries
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and in the base directory
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
at the top of DFTypes.h and DFCommon.h
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
in dfhack/libraries/machtypes.h
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
then build dfhack with cmake as per the dfhack instructions, goto the dfhack/output directory and move the libdfhack.so file into your system lib directory
Next you use sprintf_s and fopen_s in GUI.cpp and xmlBuildingReader.cpp, these are VC++ only functions, but you can change them to the portable sprintf and fopen.
In GUI.cpp
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and in xmlBuildingReader.cpp
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
after that create a Makefile, here is mine
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You have to change the library and include paths into the proper places for your distribution in the above makefile
then type make and it should compile!
Post by: kaypy on October 23, 2009, 12:17:32 pm
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/smelter.png)
Hmm. Does a smelter have a bellows, or would that be the forge only?
Post by: Dwarf on October 23, 2009, 01:19:34 pm
And a smelter (magma and regular use the same layout)
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/smelter.png)
Hmm. Does a smelter have a bellows, or would that be the forge only?
Course, to actually smelt something even requires higher temparatures than blacksmithing.
Post by: Zargen on October 23, 2009, 01:22:17 pm
Post by: Dwarf on October 23, 2009, 01:59:16 pm
a smelter would have a bellows. In fact it'd need one much more then a forge would since it takes a lot more heat to melt iron then it does to mold it.
I ninja'd you.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 23, 2009, 03:15:37 pm
I have gotten this to compile on Linux, although it needed a few source changes to do so. I unfortunately can't get regular dwarf fortress to run on my machine,you're referring to 40d, I assume? Or did you try 40d16? (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40349.0)
Just don't ask me how that circular saw works. 8-)How does that circular saw work?
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 23, 2009, 03:27:50 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 23, 2009, 06:00:47 pm
(http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/584/ssdorf.png)
I don't know if it will be entirely suitable but I thought I might as well throw it out there. Maybe Ill try and do some art for this project later.
EDIT: Yeah I tested him and he's a bit too big and his feet get cut off. Still might be useful as a placeholder or something. : EDIT
Post by: Solifuge on October 23, 2009, 08:38:58 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/DFPets.png?t=1256348403)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/DFPets2x.png?t=1256348196)
(2x magnification for High-Res screens)
Post by: quinnr on October 23, 2009, 08:55:50 pm
Post by: kaypy on October 23, 2009, 09:53:17 pm
I would drop the circular saw from carpentry workshop.
Heres a lower tech version
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/carpenters2.png)
Of course, the dwarves are entirely capable of using circular saws ("large serrated disc") on goblins, so it isnt *too* far fetched to have them for civilian use...
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 23, 2009, 10:13:17 pm
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/16/ssgemwindowsn.png) (http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6277/ssgemwindowew.png)
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8898/ssgemwindowtest.png)
Post by: kaypy on October 23, 2009, 10:22:17 pm
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/forge1.png)
Post by: Solifuge on October 23, 2009, 10:23:37 pm
Post by: dyze on October 23, 2009, 10:27:02 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 23, 2009, 10:39:33 pm
:EDIT:
Ok here's a new test with green glass windows and no sills.
(http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/42/ggwindowsstest.png)
Post by: Solifuge on October 23, 2009, 11:33:37 pm
Tweaked the coloration a bit, and took away the sill (the floor provides a good sill, actually, though I wish they could be built without them)
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 23, 2009, 11:59:04 pm
(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9052/sswindows.png)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1239/sswindowsdisplay.png)
A little more feedback and I'll move on to something else. I'm not so sure on the crystal glass one. Right now it seems a little too much like an engraved metal plate. Maybe a light yellow color?
Post by: A Dwarven Smokeologist on October 24, 2009, 12:05:02 am
Post by: Solifuge on October 24, 2009, 12:15:18 am
A New and Improved Anvil.
And with that...
Solifuge withdraws from society. Solifuge has begun a Mysterious Construction!
Post by: Footkerchief on October 24, 2009, 12:27:21 am
Post by: Neruz on October 24, 2009, 12:43:41 am
Post by: Dakk on October 24, 2009, 12:56:13 am
Post by: Christes on October 24, 2009, 01:57:10 am
This is actually coming together now.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 24, 2009, 02:03:12 am
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/9536/ssweaponrack.png)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/2364/ssweaponrackbig.png)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 24, 2009, 02:58:03 am
Quote
Of course, the dwarves are entirely capable of using circular saws ("large serrated disc") on goblins, so it isnt *too* far fetched to have them for civilian use...
Oh I completely agree its not an issue of feasibility or technology, rather that don't NEED a serrated disc to build the workshop so it's inaccurate to show it.
The artworks looking really nice and theirs a real outpouring of it as well.
Post by: kaypy on October 24, 2009, 03:24:58 am
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/mech_crft_msn.png)
Mechanics, crafts, mason
I think that thing on the left in the mechanics shop is to put gears on for testing, but its mostly a 'hey, lets stick a pole here for want of other inspiration'
Post by: kaypy on October 24, 2009, 03:28:06 am
Oh I completely agree its not an issue of feasibility or technology, rather that don't NEED a serrated disc to build the workshop so it's inaccurate to show it.Although *actual* circular saws are about 1700's tech, there's something about a giant saw blade trap that just seems thematically right.
Post by: Neruz on October 24, 2009, 03:31:55 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 24, 2009, 08:14:58 am
You guys impress me. You're an industrious lot aren't you?
I'm scrambling to make Stonesense more mod-friendly, so you can add the sprites to the game without having to wait for a rebuild.
I'll be back with more in-depth feedback, but for now let me just say that Im so freaking impressed by you all. There is some really nice work on these pages now!
Edit: And since you're all being so productive, I have a treat for you fine gents: DWARFS
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2n15k6u.png)
Post by: Belal on October 24, 2009, 09:10:26 am
I sort of wonder why you didn't check out the code and make the changes yourself, Belal.
Well I did check out the code, and make the changes, but as far as I could tell merging the changes back into the source is disabled unless you are added to the project, which I was not.I have gotten this to compile on Linux, although it needed a few source changes to do so. I unfortunately can't get regular dwarf fortress to run on my machine,you're referring to 40d, I assume? Or did you try 40d16? (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40349.0)
I was using 40d16-head. The problem isn't in the dwarf fortress code, but it needs dependencies that I don't have on the server I was trying to run it on, and I don't have root access, so it is not always easy to resolve them.
Post by: The13thRonin on October 24, 2009, 10:20:53 am
DWARFS
Now all I need is the camera in Stonesense to follow where I'm looking in dwarf fortress~
Having a function to keep Stonesense on top of Dwarf Fortress while Dwarf Fortress is maximized would be uber helpful. Any chance of this?
PS - When can we expect the dwarf update?
Post by: kaypy on October 24, 2009, 11:00:16 am
butcher
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/butcher.png)
clothier
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/clothier.png)
coffin
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/coffin.png)
loom
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/loom.png)
still
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/still.png)
well
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/well.png)
Die yellow boxes die die die!
Post by: kaypy on October 24, 2009, 11:07:48 am
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/tannery.png)
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 24, 2009, 12:59:21 pm
(http://i37.tinypic.com/xb046t.png) (http://i36.tinypic.com/1sbcyu.png)
(http://i34.tinypic.com/6jms69.png)
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2z9mt7k.png)
(http://i34.tinypic.com/25g9xti.png)
Post by: dyze on October 24, 2009, 01:50:45 pm
kaypy, nice work there too. maybe try to customize the work areas more, the grey stone blocks make everything looks kinda samey ..maybe use tables and shelves where appropriate?
jonas: nice to see some dwarves, altho i think that those yellow hats make them look like small boys rather than hardy dwarves. i keep thinking of pinocchio :D
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
any progress on the sprites-needed-list btw?
Post by: Footkerchief on October 24, 2009, 02:13:02 pm
Or you could use Beefmo's graphics set (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34834.0) as a starting point -- he released his work to the public (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34834.msg720834#msg720834) after he became unable to finish it himself. I think he finished the civ graphics but not the wild creatures, and I think his style best matches the style of Stonesense.
Post by: YojimboUsaka on October 24, 2009, 02:46:14 pm
HAR HAR Hariffic work folks!!!
Yoj
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 24, 2009, 03:12:07 pm
We are now looking for artists.Mayday! Mayday!
Yes yes, I've been observing this thread carefully but due to the lack of time I'm refraining from making any promises until I'm sure I could keep them. Besides, all the "work" I did so far was for cavalier, not isometric. That means it'd take new work from me- and I may be prolific but certainly not most talented around here (Nickel's, kaypy's and Solifuge's work- I'm not sure I could top that) so I wouldn't overestimate the value of my potential partaking in this project ;)
uhhh... did that make any sense??
Also, I'd like to repeat my question: any plans on including custom shaped and sized tiles for this?
Post by: Footkerchief on October 24, 2009, 03:24:25 pm
Though, if you're gonna base your units off an already made tileset, personally.. And no offense to Beefmo, but I don't really care for his Kobolds.
These little guys, however..: http://1d4chan.org/images/6/6a/Koboldtileset.png
Aside from that, I'm looking forward to this mod's development. It's good stuff.
Yeah, a more conservative take on the kobolds might be better, and I don't think there's anything wrong with mix-and-matching as long as the styles don't clash horribly. IMO Beefmo did his best work on the dwarves and goblins, especially the dwarven nobility.
Besides, all the "work" I did so far was for cavalier, not isometric. That means it'd take new work from me- and I may be prolific but certainly not most talented around here (Nickel's, kaypy's and Solifuge's work- I'm not sure I could top that) so I wouldn't overestimate the value of my potential partaking in this project ;)
Perhaps it wouldn't work out as well as I'm envisioning, but can't they just reuse the graphics tiles that you already made for DF itself? I don't think creature graphics need to be "isometricized" in any way.
It would be really cool if Stonesense could read a DF-formatted creature graphics file (e.g. graphics_example.txt) so that people could just drop in the graphics pack of their choice. I don't know how much has been done with detecting creature professions, but professions are a hardcoded list so it should be possible.
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 24, 2009, 03:28:59 pm
Perhaps it wouldn't work out as well as I'm envisioning, but can't they just reuse the graphics tiles that you already made for DF itself? I don't think creature graphics need to be "isometricized" in any way.
Well, graphics created specifically for iso- or cavalier- look much better in these views than normal "side-view" (currently used in all DF tilesets). But if you guys want to use the stuff from DFG- be my guest* :) I trust you know how to extract it properly?
*I'm pretty sure Sphr and the other contributors won't mind either, all the creators here are very... open about their work.
Post by: LegoLord on October 24, 2009, 05:12:05 pm
Post by: dyze on October 24, 2009, 05:17:37 pm
It seems to me that currently existing graphics could be used as place holders while we wait for iso creature graphics. It would be good to get creatures down without needing to wait for special graphics. Although flipping would only get two of eight potential facings.
imo facings is quite superfluous, at least for fortress mode
Post by: LegoLord on October 24, 2009, 05:20:01 pm
Post by: dyze on October 24, 2009, 05:28:39 pm
Oh, creatures have a direction they are facing in. It's just that without combat text you can't really tell.
yeah, i was talking in the context of the stonesense
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 24, 2009, 06:04:32 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on October 24, 2009, 06:35:00 pm
Oh, creatures have a direction they are facing in. It's just that without combat text you can't really tell.
I think it might be more precise to say "without combat you can't really tell" -- as far as anyone knows, the game only knows which way you're facing if you made an attack in the last turn.
Post by: Bricks on October 24, 2009, 06:58:06 pm
Oh, creatures have a direction they are facing in. It's just that without combat text you can't really tell.
I think it might be more precise to say "without combat you can't really tell" -- as far as anyone knows, the game only knows which way you're facing if you made an attack in the last turn.
Yeah, that definitely seems to be the case. You could certainly fake facing based on the dwarf's last movement, but that requires tracking a whole new set of variables.
Post by: MP2E on October 24, 2009, 07:45:36 pm
I have gotten this to compile on Linux, although it needed a few source changes to do so. I unfortunately can't get regular dwarf fortress to run on my machine, so I can't test that it is loading the maps correctly, but the stone sense program starts properly.Excellent stuff! Unfortunately an update to dfhack in the projects folder changes everything though, if you can get it to compile in Linux again please post up your findings.. I've tried a few times but I just can't get it unfortunately. But next time I'll create a patch with your fixes and put it up here, with the hope that it will get merged in
The main things you have to change are capitalization issues in some of the dfhack header files you changed, as well as some include directives. In addition I had to install the allegro libraries before compiling, they are available at http://alleg.sourceforge.net/ (http://alleg.sourceforge.net/)
get the stonesense source with svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ stonesense
then do the following steps
the incorrect filenames are
in dfhack/librariesSpoiler (click to show/hide)
and in the base directorySpoiler (click to show/hide)
at the top of DFTypes.h and DFCommon.hSpoiler (click to show/hide)
in dfhack/libraries/machtypes.hSpoiler (click to show/hide)
then build dfhack with cmake as per the dfhack instructions, goto the dfhack/output directory and move the libdfhack.so file into your system lib directory
Next you use sprintf_s and fopen_s in GUI.cpp and xmlBuildingReader.cpp, these are VC++ only functions, but you can change them to the portable sprintf and fopen.
In GUI.cppSpoiler (click to show/hide)
and in xmlBuildingReader.cppSpoiler (click to show/hide)
after that create a Makefile, here is mineSpoiler (click to show/hide)
You have to change the library and include paths into the proper places for your distribution in the above makefile
then type make and it should compile!
Post by: Nexii Malthus on October 24, 2009, 08:00:39 pm
AFAIK:
To the Windows 7/Vista theme reverts, I think that is due to incompatibility with OpenGL and DirectX trying run together at the same time. What used to happen is that OpenGL was handled in a wrapper which allowed both together, but this was industrial sabotage as it severely impacted on OpenGL performance, so Micro$oft has to disable the aero theme when an OpenGL program wants to run.
I guess a similiar thing has to happen here with Allegro.
[ Looking into Allegro now, never heard of it before actually ]
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 24, 2009, 09:43:32 pm
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6789/hurrhurrniceracks.png)
Post by: dyze on October 24, 2009, 09:53:18 pm
just thoughts ..nice work!
Post by: kaypy on October 24, 2009, 10:00:32 pm
Man, if it's there and it's possible to vis it, I don't see a reason why not to ALLOW vising it :P
Well, for starters you need 4 to 8 times as much artwork...
And the dfhack library has only just gotten the ability to tell whether a critter is alive and actually there vs dead and long since hauled off to the refuse pile...
Feedback on these racks?You had me fooled into thinking they were too large for a moment, but thats just 2x scaling. I think they are d*mn nice. Do you have the armor stand sans-background?
Post by: Footkerchief on October 24, 2009, 10:22:32 pm
armor rack looks great. the weapon rack, maybe the actual rack could be slightly darker for better contrast with the weapons. the weapons looks a tad small too, maybe the hilt of the axe should go all the way to the floor, same with the swords blade?
just thoughts ..nice work!
I think the weapons are just the right size on the rack.
I like the armor rack, although the items lying on the left (boots? gauntlets?) are a bit jumbled. A pair of boots standing upright might be easier to discern.
Post by: kaypy on October 24, 2009, 10:32:58 pm
Post by: Grimic on October 24, 2009, 11:07:11 pm
-Widen, or at least allow for a widened viewpoint that covers the entire stonesense window with tiles. If the view stretches offscreen, this would solve stairs/ramps displaying incorrectly when along the edges of the viewpoint and make things look much bigger and nicer overall.
-Like many have already suggested, allow Stonesense to mimic the current point of view in DF and always be displayed on top of DF.
-Perhaps the functionality of DF's 'k' key could be replicated within stonesense, except you can't view descriptions or forbid/dump/melt items or anything like that. It would just bring up the name of everything you hover over. This would allow you to look around in stonesense while the actual game is left unpaused, possibly with auto-update going on at the same time.
-Use some means of palette swapping (or recoloring) to show material colors and things covered with snow, blood, vomit, etc.
Post by: strich on October 25, 2009, 12:19:06 am
Furthermore, it is becoming known that we'll be having to make entirely new tilesets for the different perspective. So lets make a move to a new resolution standard before anyone gets too stuck into this.
Post by: kaypy on October 25, 2009, 12:57:04 am
Can I ask why we're still using ultra low-res tiles?There's a trade off between detail and number of sprites you can pack on the screen. Same reason all the DF ingame tilesets are on the small side.
Add in that stonesense really needs to have the df window running as well and there's really not much room for detail.
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 25, 2009, 06:54:37 am
I asked about custom sizing earlier (at least when I wrote my GIMP script for easy mockups of iso by screenshot+odd tileset, it was quite easy to implement for multiples of four, if you're wondering)Also, I'd like to repeat my question: any plans on including custom shaped and sized tiles for this?We are now looking for artists.Mayday! Mayday!
@CobaltKobold: yes they are, the sprites are stored as bitmaps :) the size is fixed though....aww. hope this gets fixed before I get to it, since I'm working on a retro DF tileset in that vein. Anything multiple 4 should work for this angle-pattern- though not much smaller than 16x(16, 8 floor) would work well. (I'm sure some enterprising artists could prove me wrong, but that's another discussion)
edit: Alpha channel support would be a nice feature. Particularly with glass and windows.
Post by: Doomshifter on October 25, 2009, 07:52:46 am
Feedback on these racks?
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6789/hurrhurrniceracks.png)
You've got a nice pair.
Post by: Massena on October 25, 2009, 08:02:42 am
Feedback on these racks?
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/6789/hurrhurrniceracks.png)
The outline of the weapon rack is lighter than the armor one, I don't know why. It should probably be as dark as the armor rack.
Glorious work so far!
Post by: LegoLord on October 25, 2009, 08:15:53 am
edit: Alpha channel support would be a nice feature. Particularly with glass and windows.Yeah, that would be. Should be easy to do, too. Just put the images in photoshop and set the layer opacity down to (I guess) 50%, then cut out the parts of the window that need to be solid into another layer (or outline them). Save as .png, and it's done.
I'm gonna do that just to see how well it works (making it transparent, that is).
Edit: 7cent Nickel, is it alright if I try it out on your windows?
Post by: jonask84 on October 25, 2009, 10:59:55 am
BUT we are looking really good for the next release, and for those who arn't poking around in the repository I can just say we have some awesome new features coming.
@7Ē Nickel: Excellent work on those windows, I'm putting them in asap. Windows can be built without floors right, in DF I mean? Otherwise I'll look at adding some logic to remove the floors.
The weapon rack and the armor stand are just perfect, there's not much more to say...
@Belal: Did you get my pm about linux compiling? I really want to make this multi platform friendly.
@Katie: I would like to follow the DF cursor too. I think we have enough info to get it, I'll check with Peterix of dfHack...
@The13thRonin: The next release should be done soonish (within a week?)
@kaypy: You're doing great work. But you know that, we talk on #dfhack @ freenode.net.
@dyze: The hats on the dwarfs symbolize 'peasant'. But it's the only dwarfsprite we got so far, so they're all peasants.
@Footkerchief: Yes, I believe Solifuge sent an email to Mike. But like he said; he's a bit busy. Of course, when he gets time, we'd love to get help from such a talented artist.
As for using graphics sets: It kinda works... at least as placeholders. They're a bit small for our 32x32 sprites, but not too bad i suppose...
@Mike Mayday: Nice to hear from you mate :) Let us know when you feel like you have some spare time!
Custom tile sizes will have to be put in compile time (because of optimization issues), but all you really need to do is change ONE flag in common.h. If people really want this i might release a 16x16 or 64x64 binary. would that work?
@Footkerchief: reading graphics packs is something Im gonna look into.
@Nexii Malthus: I havn't had any issues here.. let me know if you find out anything with Allegro? :)
@Grimic: these are all very good ideas. 1: cover the whole screen? sure, Ill add an option. 2: yes. working on it. 3: I made that, for debugging. its not pretty like DF's Look function is. 3: I want that too. Been looking into it.
@DJDD: You said it yourself: " its an art-style, and I quite like it". That's my answer too :)
@CobaltKobold: we want to switch to alpha and PNG files. but it would require many more library dependencies, not good for people who want to compile.
background color?
Sprite list.
Post by: Footkerchief on October 25, 2009, 12:04:26 pm
@CobaltKobold: we want to switch to alpha and PNG files. but it would require many more library dependencies, not good for people who want to compile.
In case you didn't know (and I don't mean this in a snarky way), DF is going to start using PNG tilesets by default. 40d16 already does.
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 25, 2009, 01:58:37 pm
@Mike Mayday: Nice to hear from you mate :) Let us know when you feel like you have some spare time!
Custom tile sizes will have to be put in compile time (because of optimization issues), but all you really need to do is change ONE flag in common.h. If people really want this i might release a 16x16 or 64x64 binary. would that work?
What I'm most interested in (this is a 2x zoom): http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/fatwallADV.jpg
The SHAPE of the floor tile is important here. Other sizes - yes, but possibly even unlimited tile size... this is a 32x32 floor tile rotated by 45 degrees and the dwarf fits in a 32x32 square, but since the walls are bigger anyway, would it be possible to also use larger creature/object sprites?
As for larger sprites: http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/all16.png my OLLLLDD 32x32 images are here.
Then there's also this: http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/miner.gif
And this: http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/isodwarf2.png
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 25, 2009, 02:31:15 pm
Quote
@CobaltKobold: we want to switch to alpha and PNG files. but it would require many more library dependencies, not good for people who want to compile.
I'd recommend the DevIL (Developer's Image Library) which is used in Khazad, all our textures are PNGs, it can load and save just about any kind of image file and works well with SDL.
Post by: ChocoHearts on October 25, 2009, 03:28:27 pm
As for using graphics sets: It kinda works... at least as placeholders. They're a bit small for our 32x32 sprites, but not too bad i suppose...Well, how big are dorfs when compared to a tile in-game? We don't really know - and smaller sprites would allow for multiple occupants, assuming you can put a bit of logic in to shuffle them in the tile...
And I like Beefmo's dorfs, but the other kobolds are better imho.
Post by: JanusTwoface on October 25, 2009, 04:44:16 pm
Two things I'd like to see implemented (if possible):
- Pass the space bar back to DF to pause/unpause the game. I know it's some time before passing all keys would/should work, but this would be one useful ability.
- Allow users to rebind the keys, especially the up/down keys to > and < (so that I don't have to keep switching between that and PgUp PgDown).
If either is already implemented and I just haven't noticed (like the auto-refresh :P), please let me know.
Keep up the great work!
Post by: LegoLord on October 25, 2009, 05:37:38 pm
Post by: Razoric480 on October 25, 2009, 06:45:17 pm
Though having an option to toggle it would be good.
Post by: LegoLord on October 25, 2009, 06:59:49 pm
Maybe when it's a bit more functional than it currently is. Until then, losing control of the main DF window wouldn't be too handy.I mean to have it sit above the DF window even if the DF window is the one that you have selected and are interacting with (I'm pretty sure this sort of thing can be done). It would require that the cursor be visualizeable, among other things, and would probably be a good bit off from where it is, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.
Though having an option to toggle it would be good.
'Course a toggle for that would still be good if you wanted to easily switch between playing in ACII or iso.
Post by: Mondark on October 25, 2009, 08:58:28 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on October 26, 2009, 02:01:07 am
Post by: Chromie on October 26, 2009, 04:56:44 am
When I'm looking at the second level, I can't distinguish between the bridge and the strip of road on the first level.
I've browsed a few of the other 'isometric problems' threads, but I think there should be something to distinguish one z level from another. A sliiightly darker color maybe?
Post by: kaypy on October 26, 2009, 05:23:29 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 26, 2009, 08:33:45 pm
Post by: peterix on October 26, 2009, 09:25:36 pm
The main trunk should now build and work on most linux distros. Special thanks to all those who have helped in this matter, esp Peterix for submitting the change patch!OK. Let me clarify how to actually build things.
You'll need the allegro library, libpng and their development packages (in distros that need them).
Then you need cmake and subversion.
Once you install all that, you can proceed.
Open up a terminal -- in your home folder for example.
Paste this in:
Code: [Select]
svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk stonesenseThen do:
Code: [Select]
cd stonesense/build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
makeAnd finally run stonesense:
Code: [Select]
cd ..
./stonesense
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 26, 2009, 10:27:54 pm
Post by: Belal on October 27, 2009, 11:34:52 am
Code: [Select]
-Dinclude_directories:path=/home/hesterj/include -DLINK_DIRECTORIES:PATH=/home/hesterj/libto the cmake command
if you get some errors like
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_cx_r'
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_cx_w'
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_get_cpuid_info'
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_is_486'
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_is_cpuid_supported'
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_is_cyrix'
/home/lib/liballeg-4.2.2.so: undefined reference to `_i_is_fpu'
run the cmake command again with
-DPROJECT_LIBS:string=alleg_unsharable
added to it.
It should then compile correctly!
Also note that stonesense needs allegro 4.2.2, not the latest 4.2.3
Post by: MP2E on October 27, 2009, 05:57:21 pm
Post by: peterix on October 27, 2009, 07:10:10 pm
Stonesense in Linux doesn't seem to work properly for me... It shows a tiny window with some plants and grass but it freezes there, the minimap doesn't show up and pressing pgup or pgdown doesn't seem to work. I am compiling in x64 though...Can you get into #dfhack on freenode? I'd like to debug that as soon as possible.
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 27, 2009, 07:19:50 pm
Post by: quinnr on October 27, 2009, 08:05:23 pm
Post by: Talvara on October 27, 2009, 10:28:42 pm
So I figured I'd convert an old skeleton into a skull totem... Now you must understand that its very late and I should be sleeping, anyway when I was done with this it dawned on me that skull totems arent constructable items >.<...
urgh...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/Talvara/Pixelstuff/RatMan.png)
And heres and old piece I made which could be used for a ratman...
Will there be a new downloadable Exe version sometime soon? I tried to look into compiling myself but its still a bit of a headache =(...
anyway! looking great guys,
Post by: jonask84 on October 27, 2009, 10:38:35 pm
There's a boatload of new features, so it's gonna be fun I think.
Spritelist, yes, it completely slipped my mind... IDreamOfGiniCoefficient, some monkeys would be awesome, of course :D In fact, Here's the sprite list: any animal. Here's a reference of how they could look (artwork by Solifuge)
(http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/img/creature_newcre_pos.png)
Post by: MP2E on October 27, 2009, 10:55:33 pm
Sure! I'll get on tomorrow if I canStonesense in Linux doesn't seem to work properly for me... It shows a tiny window with some plants and grass but it freezes there, the minimap doesn't show up and pressing pgup or pgdown doesn't seem to work. I am compiling in x64 though...Can you get into #dfhack on freenode? I'd like to debug that as soon as possible.
By the way, new compiling error with Linux:
Code: [Select]
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xc15): undefined reference to `GroundMaterialNamesTranslatedFromGame'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xc1d): undefined reference to `TranslateGroundMaterialNames()'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/SpriteMaps.cpp.o: In function `getFloorSpriteWithDefault(int, int)':
SpriteMaps.cpp:(.text+0xe): undefined reference to `groundTypes'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/SpriteMaps.cpp.o: In function `getWallSpriteWithDefault(int, int)':
SpriteMaps.cpp:(.text+0x2e): undefined reference to `groundTypes'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/SpriteMaps.cpp.o: In function `GetWallSpriteMap(int, int)':
SpriteMaps.cpp:(.text+0x160): undefined reference to `groundTypes'
SpriteMaps.cpp:(.text+0x1dc): undefined reference to `groundTypes'
SpriteMaps.cpp:(.text+0x236): undefined reference to `groundTypes'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/SpriteMaps.cpp.o:SpriteMaps.cpp:(.text+0x282): more undefined references to `groundTypes' follow
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/UserInput.cpp.o: In function `doKeys()':
UserInput.cpp:(.text+0x3c5): undefined reference to `LoadGroundMaterialConfiguration()'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/main.cpp.o: In function `main':
main.cpp:(.text+0x2ad): undefined reference to `LoadGroundMaterialConfiguration()'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [../stonesense] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
Post by: jonask84 on October 27, 2009, 10:58:27 pm
*post bellow* hmm, yeah they can. but since most creatures are not falling most of the time, leave the shadows in for now. I'll remove them manually at some point :)
Post by: Footkerchief on October 27, 2009, 11:00:46 pm
Post by: strich on October 28, 2009, 12:29:39 am
Seems to compile fine for me, but instant crashes every time I run it - The executable size is ~100kb instead of the standard 300+ so I'm guessing its not linking in extra code properly.
EDIT: Looks like Jonas has put in some cmake batch files to build. Did so, seemed to work fine for MSVC2008. But compile has many linking errors.
EDIT2: Fixed the linking errors - CMakeLists.txt was missing a cpp file: GroundMaterialConfiguration.cpp
Updated CMakeLists below.
Code: [Select]
# main project file. use it from a build sub-folder
PROJECT (stonesense)
cmake_minimum_required(VERSION 2.6)
# disable warning, autosearch
if(COMMAND cmake_policy)
cmake_policy(SET CMP0003 NEW)
endif(COMMAND cmake_policy)
if("${PROJECT_SOURCE_DIR}" STREQUAL "${PROJECT_BINARY_DIR}")
message(SEND_ERROR "In-source builds are not allowed.")
endif("${PROJECT_SOURCE_DIR}" STREQUAL "${PROJECT_BINARY_DIR}")
IF(NOT DEFINED CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE)
SET(CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE "Release" CACHE STRING "Choose the type of build, options are: None(CMAKE_CXX_FLAGS or CMAKE_C_FLAGS used) Debug Release RelWithDebInfo MinSizeRel.")
ENDIF(NOT DEFINED CMAKE_BUILD_TYPE)
SET( EXECUTABLE_OUTPUT_PATH ${stonesense_SOURCE_DIR} CACHE PATH "Output directory for stonesense, default is root" )
include_directories (
${include_directories}
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/dfhack/library/
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/dfhack/library/md5/
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/dfhack/library/tinyxml
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/loadpng
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}
)
SET(PROJECT_SRCS
dfhack/library/tinyxml/tinystr.cpp
dfhack/library/tinyxml/tinyxml.cpp
dfhack/library/tinyxml/tinyxmlerror.cpp
dfhack/library/tinyxml/tinyxmlparser.cpp
dfhack/library/DFDataModel.cpp
dfhack/library/DFHackAPI.cpp
dfhack/library/DFMemInfo.cpp
dfhack/library/DFProcess.cpp
dfhack/library/DFProcessManager.cpp
dfhack/library/DFTileTypes.cpp
dfhack/library/md5/md5.cpp
dfhack/library/md5/md5wrapper.cpp
loadpng/loadpng.c
loadpng/regpng.c
loadpng/savepng.c
Block.cpp
BlockCondition.cpp
BuildingConfiguration.cpp
ConditionalSprite.cpp
Config.cpp
Constructions.cpp
Contributions.txt
CreatureConfiguration.cpp
Creatures.cpp
GUI.cpp
GameBuildings.cpp
GroundMaterialConfiguration.cpp
MapLoading.cpp
SpriteMaps.cpp
UserInput.cpp
WorldSegment.cpp
main.cpp
xmlBuildingReader.cpp
)
#linux
IF(UNIX)
LINK_DIRECTORIES(${LINK_DIRECTORIES})
add_definitions(-DLINUX_BUILD)
add_definitions(-DBUILD_DFHACK_LIB)
SET(PROJECT_LIBS alleg-4.2.2 png ${PROJECT_LIBS})
ADD_EXECUTABLE(stonesense ${PROJECT_SRCS})
TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES(stonesense ${PROJECT_LIBS})
# windows
ELSE(UNIX)
add_definitions(-DBUILD_DFHACK_LIB)
# use local allegro
include_directories (
${include_directories}
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/allegro
)
LINK_DIRECTORIES(
${LINK_DIRECTORIES}
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/allegro/lib_msvs8
${CMAKE_SOURCE_DIR}/loadpng/libpng/lib/
)
# MinGW is broken. doesn't link properly for some reason.
IF(MINGW)
add_definitions(-DALLEGRO_MINGW32)
SET(PROJECT_LIBS alleg psapi mingw32 libpng)
# MSVC
ELSE(MINGW)
add_definitions(-DALLEGRO_MSVC)
SET(PROJECT_LIBS alleg psapi libpng)
ENDIF(MINGW)
ADD_EXECUTABLE(stonesense WIN32 ${PROJECT_SRCS})
TARGET_LINK_LIBRARIES(stonesense ${PROJECT_LIBS})
ENDIF(UNIX)Also, only appears to work when its compiled from the debug config.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 28, 2009, 02:25:51 am
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5479/ssarmorrack.png)
I think I'm gonna go ahead and lay claim on all the machine stuff. Hopefully I'll be able to get them all to link up properly.
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 28, 2009, 02:39:29 am
(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/2158/tugmacaque.png)
Post by: Neruz on October 28, 2009, 02:52:42 am
Post by: kaypy on October 28, 2009, 06:13:26 am
Spoilered for tl;dr
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neruz on October 28, 2009, 06:27:16 am
Jesus christ that is a terrifying looking monkey
I was thinking the same thing. That is definitely a monkey I would not want to encounter. It looks like a beast.
Actually it looks pretty scared, i guess it's found a mirror.
Post by: frumpton on October 28, 2009, 09:21:50 am
Deer
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/6513/deerq.png)
Giant Olm
(http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/2773/giantolm.png)
CARP
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7269/carp.png)
Bear 1 & 2 (new)
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/1426/bearn.png) - (http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/6004/bear2.png)
Colossus
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3899/colossus.png)
Let me know if you want more :D
More!
Antman
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8897/antman.png)
Batman
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6439/batman.png)
::)
Post by: kaypy on October 28, 2009, 09:39:28 am
I think I'm gonna go ahead and lay claim on all the machine stuff. Hopefully I'll be able to get them all to link up properly.
Here's some I was already working on... If you want to improve on them, please go ahead 8-)
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/somemechs.png)
Oh... And I also made this abomination:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/windmillabomination.png)
which combines being badly drawn with crimes against perspective...
I think something by nature of the perspective abuse is necessary - windmills shouldn't be flat - but hopefully someone can come up with something better looking...
Post by: jonask84 on October 28, 2009, 10:18:34 am
animal trap
archery target (think unidirectional)
Stonefall trap
cage
floodgates
Also: Some great sprites coming along here! I'm putting some of them in, only the best :)
frumpton I especially love that deer, really nice. But i can tell you right now, The Batman will not make it hehe
7Ē Nickel; go for it. I've designed a system to get orientation of axles, just so you know :)
IDreamOfGiniCoefficient that is a freaking vicious little monkey! Im just saying:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solifuge on October 28, 2009, 11:52:37 am
I bring you gifts:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/DFFirecritters.png?t=1256748631)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/DFFirecritters2x.png?t=1256748631)
Spirit of Fire, and a dear, sweet, mischievous Fire Imp.
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 28, 2009, 11:53:34 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on October 28, 2009, 12:01:48 pm
Well, you could go the cute and cuddly route. But the threatening beast angle seems more appropriate for the Dwarf Fortress universe. The players have an undeniable penchant for the dangerous.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, good point. I was just joking around anyway. But we do have one little problem, he's too big:
http://www.uploadgeek.com/share-D123_4AE87024.html
See how his little legs are poking into the ground?
Because of the isometric perspective...
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 28, 2009, 12:03:34 pm
Edit: I found the time now. These are fun.
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6010/shrinkmacaque.png)
Post by: frumpton on October 28, 2009, 12:08:59 pm
Also, are those sweet windows going to be in the next version? I made a castle with tons of them just so I could see it in stonesense ;D
Post by: DennyTom on October 28, 2009, 03:11:22 pm
Post by: Voligne on October 28, 2009, 03:21:14 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on October 28, 2009, 03:56:09 pm
Post by: tefalo on October 28, 2009, 04:00:22 pm
CARP
(http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/7269/carp.png)
Batman
(http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/6439/batman.png)
Win win!?
By the way, this is how snake men should look:
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/megaman/images/3/3d/Snakesprite.png)
: D
Post by: LegoLord on October 28, 2009, 04:25:16 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I not sure if they show quite enough of the other side the way I did it, but I can change that easily.
They look a bit lighter if you right-click to view the image by itself, with a white background. The frames should look the same, though.
Post by: timmeh on October 28, 2009, 04:26:51 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 28, 2009, 04:38:48 pm
Might I suggest having some sort of external file that tells the program what graphic to use for what creature? While I'm not using any mods at the moment, I'm watching several that I may try soon, and I'd really like to be able to see the creatures in them, even if I have to create my own graphics.
I'm scrambling to make Stonesense more mod-friendly, so you can add the sprites to the game without having to wait for a rebuild.Sounds like it's partly planned.
So, for one, I think that being able to parse DF's own init and graphics files (for its creature graphics) would work well as a fallback, and having them in the same format would GREATLY help porting mods (and graphics packs associated) into Stonesense.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on October 28, 2009, 05:22:18 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 28, 2009, 05:42:24 pm
jonask84: You should post a png the height and width you want and with a diamond shaped magenta area at the bottom showing ware the floor tile will line up with the graphic. Artists can then use this as a template and reference as they will know not to put any part of the creature graphic below that diamond, its also handy for making sure the creature appears centered in the tile. SimCity 2000 used a similar system in an editor that allowed you to pixel paint new buildings.ah, SCURK.
It's easy to do yourself. Center four pixels on the bottom row, expand by four per row you move up.
Anyway, just take a floortile from Sol's sample tileset.
I like it how that looks a fair bit, actually.
If it would be of any use, I would happily donate a set of Isometric tiles I made at that perspective:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/IsometricMockup.png)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/DFIsometricTiles-1.png)
Post by: kaypy on October 28, 2009, 07:08:43 pm
Might I suggest having some sort of external file that tells the program what graphic to use for what creature? While I'm not using any mods at the moment, I'm watching several that I may try soon, and I'd really like to be able to see the creatures in them, even if I have to create my own graphics.Thats a pretty good description for whats going on. You currently [in the svn build] have to paste everything into the one png file, but the configuration is just xml tweaking.
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingCreatures (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingCreatures)
I'm pretty sure Sol's set is where stonesense started off from- those look awfully familiar 8-)jonask84: You should post a png the height and width you want and with a diamond shaped magenta area at the bottom showing ware the floor tile will line up with the graphic.It's easy to do yourself. Center four pixels on the bottom row, expand by four per row you move up.
Anyway, just take a floortile from Sol's sample tileset.
That multicoloured wireframe on the right would make a pretty exact reference
Oh, by the way, even without svn software or building your own version of the app, you can see where things are up to by heading to the google code browser and pulling out image and xml files. (they wont run in the a2 stonesense, but they still give you an idea of whats going in)
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/ (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/)
When's the next update :)?If you're desperate enough you can try to follow some of the 'build it yourself' guides, but if you wait a bit longer, jonask mentioned hoping for a weekend update
Post by: frumpton on October 28, 2009, 08:22:13 pm
Best case scenario; Solifuge makes art for the entire thing 8)
Post by: jonask84 on October 28, 2009, 08:25:36 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 28, 2009, 08:30:43 pm
Though, then you need to consider how to render vis/nonvis.
Post by: jonask84 on October 28, 2009, 08:36:25 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on October 28, 2009, 08:40:16 pm
I've tried out adventure mode, which kinda works actually. Only wish we had some way to link the view to the cursor....
I'm pretty sure the open-source, real-time visualizer Lifevis (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/source/checkout) has this feature. Might be worth checking how Mithaldu accomplished it.
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 28, 2009, 08:42:43 pm
If the designers have any guidelines for this stuff, I'd be happy to follow it- otherwise I don't think it makes too much difference in the end.
The isometric thing has been done before, and the effect of shading consistent between the landscape and creatures is either ignored, as in the case of UO, or it doesn't have that much immediate visual impact in any case. (Diablo 2)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on October 28, 2009, 09:03:03 pm
Edit: also, Footkerchief, I will have a look at that, thanks
Post by: The13thRonin on October 28, 2009, 11:13:28 pm
Post by: Lord Nightmare on October 28, 2009, 11:33:16 pm
LN
Post by: DennyTom on October 29, 2009, 12:15:05 am
I couldnt agree more. A consistent look and feel is very important. So, as stated earlier, noone get offended if something doesnt make it in, or gets replaced, we're just striving for a consistent look. And there is full support for alternative tile-sets anyway :)
Edit: also, Footkerchief, I will have a look at that, thanks
I agree also - one sprite per animal but please change direction where are creatures facing for some of them. It would be very weird if every single animal was looking to the right.
Post by: strich on October 29, 2009, 12:26:09 am
Some simple logic should be able to flip the image to the left and right directions no problems.I couldnt agree more. A consistent look and feel is very important. So, as stated earlier, noone get offended if something doesnt make it in, or gets replaced, we're just striving for a consistent look. And there is full support for alternative tile-sets anyway :)
Edit: also, Footkerchief, I will have a look at that, thanks
I agree also - one sprite per animal but please change direction where are creatures facing for some of them. It would be very weird if every single animal was looking to the right.
But for the record - 3D for the win. :P
Post by: LegoLord on October 29, 2009, 04:07:12 pm
Post by: strich on October 29, 2009, 05:38:49 pm
Post by: Neruz on October 29, 2009, 06:00:49 pm
Post by: LegoLord on October 29, 2009, 06:38:23 pm
IMO you either do 1 sprite per creature or you go all out and do simple 3D iso. I really think it is a waste of time doing some complex in-between 2D system. It'd be less work in the long run.If you ask me, it doesn't look right to see a dwarf walking backwards. And real time does seem to be something people want this in.
Post by: strich on October 29, 2009, 08:03:54 pm
You're missing my point - If you want real-time movement in this thing then you'll want to move to 3D. Making 3D models would be less time consuming in the long run and open up the door for future additions such as animation.IMO you either do 1 sprite per creature or you go all out and do simple 3D iso. I really think it is a waste of time doing some complex in-between 2D system. It'd be less work in the long run.If you ask me, it doesn't look right to see a dwarf walking backwards. And real time does seem to be something people want this in.
And please let me reiterate - I'm all for 2D sprite-based just so we can finally get a decent GUI and framework out there. But if you're looking at adding all this extra stuff such as sprite flipping and direction, etc. You would be better served going straight to 3D.
Post by: LegoLord on October 29, 2009, 08:26:37 pm
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 29, 2009, 09:20:43 pm
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1638/target3.png)
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 29, 2009, 09:26:39 pm
Good omnidirectional target.
Post by: Bricks on October 29, 2009, 10:09:32 pm
General praise, general praise, prayers that Toady supports something like this in the future, etc.
Post by: Octopusfluff on October 29, 2009, 10:37:48 pm
First: It is true that with well defined low-poly low-detail models, you can end up with a huge savings in total ram/storage requirements versus a lot of sprites. Even if you're making heavy use of horizontal flipping, you still need five sprites per character per frame of animation..
Even if you are EXTREMELY sparse with frames of animation, you're still looking at a minimum of two frames per action, with quite a number of actions. Even if you only bother with movement and attacking, that's 20 frames per creature shape. If you're also differentiating creatures by job, as is traditional, that's.. a lot.
You can skimp on a lot of this with clever texturing (making use of palette shifts), but it's still a lot. This adds up both in storage requirements, active memory use, and raw effort.
However, second: The barrier for entry to produce acceptable quality 2d sprites is MUCH lower, as far more people can create or edit a bitmap than can produce decent 3d sprites. Additionally, given the low resolution involved, the practical cost of a donkeyton of sprites is pretty low; you could fit full spritesheets for a civilization in less room than a particularly high quality skin for a 3d model in a current gen shooter.
Third: The technical requirements on the engine side are different. This engine is pretty clearly built assuming 2d, and adding 3d support for movable entities looks like it'd be extremely nontrivial, ultimately making it better to implement such 3d entity sets in other projects that are already 3d.
Fourth: Style, yeah. A 3d creature would look EXCEEDINGLY out of place with the wall/floor tiles in use, and the retro appearance we have here is... somehow fitting, given the even MORE retro core interface.
Getting a fully complete set of frames for every entity, with decent animation, is a huge task... but far from cost ineffective, and decidedly worthwhile, given the exceptionally approachable feel Stonesense offers.
I suspect I could sell this to people as an interface even more readily than the more advanced 3d interfaces.
Oh, yes, hi. I just popped out of the woodwork to reply to DJDD, yes. :D
Post by: kaypy on October 29, 2009, 11:17:46 pm
My take on anEventually, we should be able to detect the orientation on buildings and so have multiple sprites. But in the meantime...uniomnidirectional archery target.
A developer has stolen an Archery Target!
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 29, 2009, 11:26:05 pm
Even if you are EXTREMELY sparse with frames of animation, you're still looking at a minimum of two frames per action, with quite a number of actions. Even if you only bother with movement and attacking, that's 20 frames per creature shape. If you're also differentiating creatures by job, as is traditional, that's.. a lot.There's a thread in which Mayday points out the middle ground where you can break sprites into components to get animation easier, by moving them and suchnot...where was it...there (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35693.msg556283#msg556283)
Getting a fully complete set of frames for every entity, with decent animation, is a huge task... but far from cost ineffective, and decidedly worthwhile, given the exceptionally approachable feel Stonesense offers.
Post by: Solifuge on October 29, 2009, 11:51:59 pm
In regard to sprites and facing directions, there is nothing hardcoded that we can read (yet?) that tells us a unit's facing direction. I'm not certain any sort of facing direction is hardcoded at all, though I've heard of Backstabbing attacks... there may be some sort of hidden facing direction value, but so far it would be left to something like checking for whether or not each unit moved during the last tick, and where they moved to. This would add up with a screenfull of dwarves, critters, and potential sieges, and makes it significantly harder to keep it rendering in realtime.
The biggest problem is as follows, though: with the sheer number of creatures to draw sprites for, drawing even 5 directions and reversing 3 of them is a LOT of work; There are approximately 230 default creatures. That means you'd be asking for 1,150 sprites. If you add in skeletons, zombies, and corpses you end up with 3,450 sprites. On top of that, some of these critters can have have Professions, Training, and Children, which can also be zombies, skeletons, or corpses, which adds the potential for as many as 10,000 default sprites alone, or more.
As the primary artist working on this, I can tell you that this is not something I can do. Not unless you want to pay me wages and let me do it full-time. And if you were to do that, I'd much prefer the money went to Toady. :P
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 30, 2009, 12:21:13 am
Post by: kaypy on October 30, 2009, 12:51:42 am
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/wagonidea.png)
Will still be 'fun' breaking this into building chunks (for the starting wagon) and ***absolutely no idea*** how to make it work as a merchant wagon
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 30, 2009, 01:03:30 am
On a practical note, you should possibly remember that 1. wagon-as-creature is probably stored differently than embark wagon-as-building
2. merch wagons are said to be in their center square
3. you could make the system support facing sprites, but not require them- default to one sprite if they're not filled in, say.
Post by: Octopusfluff on October 30, 2009, 03:53:30 am
Hi OctopusFluff, and welcome to the Fortressdome!
Hello. :D
In regard to sprites and facing directions, <snip...>
As the primary artist working on this, I can tell you that this is not something I can do. Not unless you want to pay me wages and let me do it full-time. And if you were to do that, I'd much prefer the money went to Toady. :P
Oh, I know this is an absurd thing for one person to consider tackling. My post was mainly aimed at DJDD's comments.
There's a lot of potential shortcuts that can be taken, though, and with a community like this, the load has the potential to be distributed. I stand by the fact that this is a worthwhile thing to try to do, but by no means am I trying to assert that it's something that is easy or short-term. :D
Ah well.
In the meantime, I think I'll continue with testing my capacity to adhere to the core tenet of DF.
Post by: kaypy on October 30, 2009, 04:28:35 am
(a) after other creatures
(b) about 8-16 pixels higher (depends on ridee height- may need a sprite config option)
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/riders.png)
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2009, 05:40:36 am
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on October 30, 2009, 06:03:46 am
The center one has the entire image, while the other 8 squares on it can be invisable :)
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 30, 2009, 06:16:47 am
On the subject of splitting the wagon for the viewer, there really shouldnt be a need.
The center one has the entire image, while the other 8 squares on it can be invisable :)
I believe displaying it that way would simply make the wagon appear to be 'under' the tiles in the foreground. See the earlier example of too-big monkey.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 30, 2009, 07:54:51 am
(http://i37.tinypic.com/ohtoc7.png)
Lemme know what yall think.
Post by: kurokikaze on October 30, 2009, 08:56:24 am
Post by: Great Cthulhu on October 30, 2009, 09:36:43 am
Example of darker brown:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on October 30, 2009, 10:43:34 am
Post by: Vince on October 30, 2009, 10:52:35 am
I love em, seriously great axles. And I think you really portrayed the mechanics of it. And Cthulhu, Gear assemblies are made from mechanisms, who are again made from rock, right?
He meant the axles, not the gears. :)
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 30, 2009, 02:53:21 pm
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/114/cage2.png)(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6237/woodcage.png)
Post by: LegoLord on October 30, 2009, 03:56:45 pm
With both of those, we could drastically reduce the number of sprites needed to display profession down to a small handful of sprites to represent tools.
There's probably other tricks that might work better or be easier to code, but that's just what I was able to think of.
Post by: frumpton on October 30, 2009, 04:17:24 pm
Profession sprites should be pretty easy. Just alter the little peasant dude with tools/different color clothing and shifting a few pixels for a new hat or robe, etc.
Post by: unclejam on October 30, 2009, 05:12:12 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 30, 2009, 07:22:48 pm
(http://img202.imageshack.us/img202/4111/sslinkagetest.png)
Any more feedback?
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 30, 2009, 07:39:33 pm
I can actually think of a shortcut for profession sprites. We could do a combination of two things: 1) Color code them based on professionSo, basically how they're done in vanilla DF. (DF graphics sets allow you to tell it to do this OR use tiles as-is. Might be a nice option to include.)
Better axles, look woodier.
Post by: ricemastah on October 30, 2009, 07:46:43 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 30, 2009, 08:42:27 pm
Post by: LegoLord on October 30, 2009, 09:57:55 pm
Oh, ha. Yeah, I could have been simpler (although I was sort of talking about a bit of a fusion between them). Guess that's what happens when I don't take my ADHD meds. Sorry about that.I can actually think of a shortcut for profession sprites. We could do a combination of two things: 1) Color code them based on professionSo, basically how they're done in vanilla DF. (DF graphics sets allow you to tell it to do this OR use tiles as-is. Might be a nice option to include.)
Post by: Greiger on October 30, 2009, 10:09:59 pm
For the facing thing 1 sprite that is simply flipped when facing the other way would work nicely. But from what I'm aware DF itself only actually bothers with that kinda stuff when it comes down to combat. So even if a way could be found to identify the how DF stores that, it could very well never be changed while moving around normally and not work for what we want anyway. So I wouldn't worry about it too much.
And I'm not entirely certain what to classify this as but shops don't appear to be recognized at all currently. No yellow box, just the ground underneath it. Just figured I would mention this since it's something that requires a mature fort to really notice.
And I'm surprised nobody bothered to make an obsidian floor tile yet. Magma areas look bizarre with the yellow defaulto tile, instead of obsidian floor.
Still awesome visualiser, keep up the good work!
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 30, 2009, 10:42:11 pm
(http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/7051/sshaew.png) (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/3271/sshans.png) (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7973/ssva.png) (http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/7387/ssga.png)
I think next I will do levers on/off, windmills, waterwheels, millstones, and finally screwpumps. I'm saving screwpumps for last since I believe it's going to give me the most grief to get looking acceptable.
Post by: Footkerchief on October 30, 2009, 10:53:49 pm
I think next I will do levers on/off, windmills, waterwheels, millstones, and finally screwpumps. I'm saving screwpumps for last since I believe it's going to give me the most grief to get looking acceptable.
If it helps, I think the screw is supposed to be inside the pipe. So honestly you could probably just draw a block with a pipe sticking out of it, although I guess you still have to draw four of them. The linkages look excellent, by the way.
Post by: kaypy on October 30, 2009, 11:04:11 pm
Ok updated linkage test.I was about to ask for something on magenta, but you ninja'd me...
Any more feedback?
[Edit: looks like jonask already added the new ones, too]
Screwpumps are going to be problematic for a while, because we cannot detect directionality yet. We can make some extrapolations from other nearby buildings, but at best we have dont know whether we are painting em back to front.
Stick 2 screw pumps side by side and we have no idea at all
(axles face a similar problem, but at least they dont have 2 identical but opposite configurations- if an axle has more than one tile, then we have a good chance of getting it right)
Also, we cannot detect building state yet (although obviously we prefer *having* both lever states etc before we need em)
Post by: Footkerchief on October 30, 2009, 11:11:35 pm
Screwpumps are going to be problematic for a while, because we cannot detect directionality yet. We can make some extrapolations from other nearby buildings, but at best we have dont know whether we are painting em back to front.
It should be possible to deduce the orientation from the occupancy flags, (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Occupancy_flags_in_DF_memory) right? Since only one of the pump tiles is passable? I have no idea what info dfhack provides, so maybe it's more complicated than that.
Post by: kaypy on October 30, 2009, 11:31:51 pm
I think next I will do levers on/off, windmills, waterwheels, millstones, and finally screwpumps.
If you need it for eg windmills, it is possible (with some hackery at this end) to make a building sprite taller than it ought to be. It risks having some things look funny later, but if the alternative is the sprite looking funny all the time, then we can superimpose some image chunks for additional height.
With multitile buildings, each tile needs to be it own separate image. (actually, you can break things down further than that- I do the workshops with one 'bench' image and a bunch of different 'stuff on the bench' images)
Its similar to what you have already done with the axles, so shouldn't be anything new, really...
It should be possible to deduce the orientation from the occupancy flags, (http://www.dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Occupancy_flags_in_DF_memory) right? Since only one of the pump tiles is passable? I have no idea what info dfhack provides, so maybe it's more complicated than that.
Hmm. May be possible, but still isnt going to get us the whole way:
Consider screw pumps side by side:
Code: [Select]
<<
>>
vsCode: [Select]
^v
^v
Hmm. Although currently we look at neighbors by type, I have already got reasons to want an 'is the neighbor part of the same actual building' (Currently I can't tell two bridges side by side from one big bridge)
That plus occupancy flags might start getting interesting.
Post by: kaypy on October 30, 2009, 11:58:00 pm
An attempt at a cage- I'm not entirely happy with this one. Maybe more of a birdcage shape might work.Given the rather varied backgrounds, things without distinct borders have a tendency to wind up rather camoflaged.
(http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/114/cage2.png)(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6237/woodcage.png)
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/camocage.png)
Keep trying though, the cage I currently have is visible, but rather ugly. There is definitely room for improvement. (Its birdcage style, but comes out at clunky (except the terrariums, which are scaled up versions of your glass box))
I may try playing with your cage and try to see if I can push the dark areas out to become a border- see it that makes it show up better...
We just got the ability to display buildings and creatures in midair, though, so theres some completely undone buildings that could really use de-yellowboxing if I can get em in before this release 8-)
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 12:01:45 am
catapults and ballistas
In nine separate tiles, thanks 8-)
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 31, 2009, 01:01:01 am
These are at least better outlined.
Here's some further revisions. I'm just not sure if the 4 opening ones look too much like windows or not, but other than that they seem pretty good.
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/356/cage4blackbars.png) -all black bars.
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8739/blackcage1.png)(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4165/blackcagewood.png)
My other idea was possibly a hanging cage, but I don't really feel that fits in with the normal use in DF.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 01:17:32 am
These are at least better outlined.Hmm. Yeah the 4 openings seem a little... open...
Here's some further revisions. I'm just not sure if the 4 opening ones look too much like windows or not, but other than that they seem pretty good.
I'll grab those top two unless/until you come up with another batch 8-)
Quote
My other idea was possibly a hanging cage, but I don't really feel that fits in with the normal use in DF.Yeah. Having them as hanging in a single tile would be a little challenging, too...
Oh, do you have access to the up-to-date objects.png file? You may want to look at tweaking the glass terrariums, too...
[edit: Although it may be best not to get too carried away on glass stuff until we get transparency]
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on October 31, 2009, 01:45:29 am
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 02:13:00 am
This makes it available for SVN download (Anyone who can set up a compiler can build up-to-the-minute versions of the program).
That wont help folks that arent comfortable with SVN or compiling programs, but:
(1) There is a web interface to the repository
Go to http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/ and you have a view of what you would get if you did an SVN checkout.
From there, go into the trunk area via the links on the left, and you will get a list of files including the object.png file.
You can also get at the configuration files from the trunk/buildings area.
Note that changes made on developers machines wont show up until we upload them, so, for example, I have set up your cages here, but I havent got them as far as googlecode quite yet (especially this close to release, I need to be careful not to conflict with anything Jonask is doing)
(2) We are making the software configurable, so you wont need to recompile it to add more sprites. With the exception of changes to the configuration format, downloading additional sprite data via the web interface will be enough to get new objects (once we get this release with the configuration stuff done)
Post by: Neruz on October 31, 2009, 02:59:07 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on October 31, 2009, 03:47:57 am
Aren't (horizontal) axles also the same building either way?
And if you can't read building state, how do you deal with (raised/retracted) bridges?
Post by: Great Cthulhu on October 31, 2009, 04:54:55 am
Ok updated linkage test.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Any more feedback?
Lookin' good! Thanks.
Post by: jonask84 on October 31, 2009, 05:43:39 am
Get it right here (http://dffd.wimbli.com/download.php?id=1487&f=Stonesense.rar)!
And with that I'm off to sweeden to smuggle some booze
Post by: Vince on October 31, 2009, 06:06:14 am
Only the alleg42.dll is missing, but I could download it.
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 31, 2009, 06:49:13 am
Great joerb, guys!
Post by: forsaken1111 on October 31, 2009, 07:51:26 am
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 31, 2009, 09:43:20 am
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9536/ssweaponrack.png) (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6277/ssgemwindowew.png) (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2858/ssgemwindowns.png) (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/8082/sscrystalwindowew.png) (http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/1053/sscrystalwindowns.png)
A few bugs I noticed.
Beds are either misalligned or too tall, they poke through the floor.
I crashed when looking at both my old volcano glacier forts.
Stonesense doesn't seem to deal well with non square stockpiles. Or maybe it sees the leftovers I had to cut to make non square stockpiles.
Feature request
I'd still like the ability to rotate the camera
A "cake slice" button where it only shows the north west quarter. Good for getting views of single tile tunnels/shafts and crosssections.
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 10:26:40 am
Looking good. One thing I noticed is that you're using an old version of my weapon rack and don't have the gem and crystal windows in. Just to make sure, here are the latest versions of those.Yeah I got to my last-chance-uploads and noticed we didn't have the gem windows in a bit too late. I'll look at fixing these in a tick.
Quote
A few bugs I noticed.Ill check it out. If I can find a bed that isnt stuck in a tiny closet and hidden by walls
Beds are either misalligned or too tall, they poke through the floor.
Quote
I crashed when looking at both my old volcano glacier forts.Ow. Hmm. I don't think the system will be putting out any useful crash info. Any chance you can put the save somewhere?
Quote
Stonesense doesn't seem to deal well with non square stockpiles. Or maybe it sees the leftovers I had to cut to make non square stockpiles.Yeah, theres a bitmap the system uses to work out where the stockpile actually is within the square you define. But we dont have access to that yet (the dfhack folks have that on their wishlist.)
Quote
Feature requestThat would play hell with all the workshops... But I wouldn't necessarily rule it out...
I'd still like the ability to rotate the camera
Quote
A "cake slice" button where it only shows the north west quarter. Good for getting views of single tile tunnels/shafts and crosssections.Yeah, I'd like some more advanced viewing options, now that we are starting to have most of the actual basic display working.
You're probably going to need building state for seige engine direction too.Yeah, we will.
Aren't (horizontal) axles also the same building either way?
There's NS vs EW for axles.
Quote
And if you can't read building state, how do you deal with (raised/retracted) bridges?*sob* we DONT *sob*
Actually, until like, last night at 2AM, we couldnt display anything not resting on solid ground, so bridges had bigger problems
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 31, 2009, 10:50:06 am
Ill check it out. If I can find a bed that isnt stuck in a tiny closet and hidden by walls
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/7172/beds.png)
This is a stockpile on the floor above some bedrooms.
Post by: SirPenguin on October 31, 2009, 11:16:16 am
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2czak3s.png)
(http://i36.tinypic.com/a3duh5.png)
(http://i38.tinypic.com/153lnh3.png)
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 11:19:06 am
And technically, yeah the bed sticks up too far- largely because it overshoots the edges of its tile a little bit. It gets the legs chopped a little too.
In other news, I am putting together some instructions on how to add custom sprites to Stonesense, so you will be able to see and use your own sprites as you create them:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingBuildings (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingBuildings)
SirPenguin: Thats a lotta coffins. I'm glad I scrapped my first attempt and got something better looking 8-)
Post by: SirPenguin on October 31, 2009, 12:01:14 pm
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 12:05:16 pm
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingBuildings (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingBuildings)
is now up. Does it seem straightforward enough?
[edit: Argh! Spelign!]
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 12:07:49 pm
Heh, they're not all used, but I like the concept of lining my fortress entrance with coffins. The Halls of Remembrance!"Remember: Do your job right or you'll wind up in one of these!"
Post by: Christes on October 31, 2009, 01:05:41 pm
One question though: what do question marks mean?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Footkerchief on October 31, 2009, 01:33:30 pm
Post by: Octopusfluff on October 31, 2009, 01:38:18 pm
A couple of notes...
Keybinding. I have a laptop, so it doesn't normally have KP+/-; the auto-refresh is nice but it'd be handy if I could configure that with regular +/-. Also, I'd like to echo another person's request for being able to use </> for changing Z-level.
Bonus points for a fully configurable input system, but that's obviously a touch more effort than just extra bindings. :)
In v3, stockpiles showed up nicely, but in v3 they're just the basic yellow boxes. Is this just me, or is this something that changed and hasn't been re-implemented yet?
Post by: Christes on October 31, 2009, 01:47:08 pm
^^^ Maybe creatures that don't have a sprite yet?
I checked, but as far as I can tell, nothing is in the room there.
Post by: Solifuge on October 31, 2009, 02:44:28 pm
Also, the '?'s are creatures without sprites. It includes vermin, and I believe displays them even when DF normally wouldn't (that might explain it).
Post by: Christes on October 31, 2009, 03:04:58 pm
I suprised there are no donkey sprites yet, actually.
Post by: quinnr on October 31, 2009, 03:09:16 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on October 31, 2009, 03:17:59 pm
And maybe you can include a default tileset, that will make the spriteless creatures (and objects) display the tiles that they have in the game?
Post by: dyze on October 31, 2009, 03:46:51 pm
(http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b98/Erwin_Rommel/questionmarkstonesense.png)
what is that blocky looking greyish-green sprite (7 of them at the bottom left there), is that statues?
imo the quality of that sprite isnt quite up there with the rest of the tileset.
Post by: Christes on October 31, 2009, 04:19:28 pm
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 07:19:22 pm
what is that blocky looking greyish-green sprite (7 of them at the bottom left there), is that statues?Theres room for improvement in a lot of sprites. Theres also still a whole bunch missing entirely...
imo the quality of that sprite isnt quite up there with the rest of the tileset.
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 07:29:15 pm
In v3, stockpiles showed up nicely, but in v3 they're just the basic yellow boxes. Is this just me, or is this something that changed and hasn't been re-implemented yet?Oops! Looks like they never got their config file.
If you grab a new version of index.txt, Stockpile.xml and Zone.xml from the trunk/buildings directory in
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/ (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/)
then they should show up again.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on October 31, 2009, 09:02:56 pm
(http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/9781/towercaptest.png)
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9259/sstowercap.png)
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 09:22:15 pm
Now I wonder if we are actually able to detect the difference between tree types?
Post by: ToonyMan on October 31, 2009, 09:25:43 pm
Post by: Wh1tefang12 on October 31, 2009, 09:43:30 pm
Post by: pokute on October 31, 2009, 09:59:37 pm
Still can't wait to use this as full front-end replacement.
Post by: kaypy on October 31, 2009, 10:47:30 pm
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/workingbridges.png)
(Yes that is two bridges, for about as much practical reason as the wall is 2 tiles thick)
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 01, 2009, 01:29:20 am
Nice. We probably need something similar for underground shrubs.
Now I wonder if we are actually able to detect the difference between tree types?
Well you've got different trees for the seasonal changes so I assume you can at least get the color. For now you could just assume all muddy trees are towercaps. Did you know towercaps are actually green? I did not until I was digging a merchant tunnel and some grew in the soil near the entrance.
Post by: unclejam on November 01, 2009, 12:43:51 pm
I am playing in a complicated fort with a lot of levels over lapping and the levels don't have continuous floors. When its loaded into stone sense its really hard to tell what is on what level. It is very MC Escher esque. Is it possible to put progressively dimmed levels the further away it is from the 'current level'?
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 01, 2009, 04:06:33 pm
Also, if trees are in the middle of fields, they get partially covered up, as seem to any plants under the field. o.O
Is there a list for referance of what still needs to be made?
Post by: DennyTom on November 01, 2009, 05:01:35 pm
... some goats and goblins ...
Just got a idea - why not temporarily use bitmaps from DFG? Animals designed for this project are not in isometric view, so...
Post by: Solifuge on November 01, 2009, 05:22:16 pm
Once I'm done moving and have a new apartment sorted out (I'm almost there) I'll be able to start cranking out sprites once again. Until then, if anyone wants to format one of the animal graphics packs from the wiki into 32x32 blocks, and add them to Creatures.png, we could get rid of the bulk of those Questionmarks.
UncleJam:
We have a fix for the "Escher" problem. It might not make it until the next release (it will be a fairly involved graphical overhaul) but it will fix the problem in its entirety.
7c Nickle:
Great Tower Caps! The perspective on them is a bit shallow, but I really love the design on them, especially the hanging mossy bits. They look like I'd imagine a giant species of mushrooms would actually look, rather than just a blown up little fungus.
Post by: Octopusfluff on November 01, 2009, 06:54:05 pm
DennyTom, etc.:
Once I'm done moving and have a new apartment sorted out (I'm almost there) I'll be able to start cranking out sprites once again. Until then, if anyone wants to format one of the animal graphics packs from the wiki into 32x32 blocks, and add them to Creatures.png, we could get rid of the bulk of those Questionmarks.
I would totally volunteer for this, except I'm out of town myself, and on my laptop. If I was at home with access to my imac, that'd be fun.
... speaking of macs, any word on if a mac version of this will someday be feasible? XD
Also, I noticed when things are bogged down (my laptop isn't exactly high spec; 1.5ghz cpu and 768 megs of ram), stonesense sometimes seems to 'miss' keypresses. It just utterly fails to register some presses at all.
Not a huge issue now, but if it starts being able to accept more input, it could matter later.
Post by: kaypy on November 02, 2009, 06:03:58 am
... speaking of macs, any word on if a mac version of this will someday be feasible? XDHmm. The biggest problem would be getting the DFHack library to work on OsX. Anyone who could do that should be able to get stonesense working without too many problems.
DFHack is listed as "OSX is not supported due to lack of developers with a Mac.". This may mean that theres cross-platform problems, or it may just mean no-one with a mac has attempted to compile it...
[edit] While it may be just some tweaking to get things to compile, I forgot that the memory offsets in the mac version of DF would also need to be worked out...
Quote
Also, I noticed when things are bogged down (my laptop isn't exactly high spec; 1.5ghz cpu and 768 megs of ram), stonesense sometimes seems to 'miss' keypresses. It just utterly fails to register some presses at all.I've had problems with things getting bogged down, but they have improved significantly after we plugged a memory leak yesterday. If your problems have been occurring after leaving the program running for a while, then it may be the same issues.
Post by: strich on November 02, 2009, 07:20:46 am
I actually think it may have more to do with the way you have the main loop setup - It looks like it takes too long to update the map per tick as it seems that by the time the loop gets around to actioning key strokes there have already multiple hits.QuoteAlso, I noticed when things are bogged down (my laptop isn't exactly high spec; 1.5ghz cpu and 768 megs of ram), stonesense sometimes seems to 'miss' keypresses. It just utterly fails to register some presses at all.I've had problems with things getting bogged down, but they have improved significantly after we plugged a memory leak yesterday. If your problems have been occurring after leaving the program running for a while, then it may be the same issues.
Post by: jonask84 on November 02, 2009, 07:44:39 am
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 02, 2009, 02:13:17 pm
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9700/levertest.png)
I think it might be entirely too big right now. What do you guys think of the design though?
Post by: Footkerchief on November 02, 2009, 02:27:04 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 02, 2009, 03:51:40 pm
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9700/levertest.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 02, 2009, 03:55:36 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 02, 2009, 03:56:50 pm
Ok first pass at the lever.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9700/levertest.png)
I think it might be entirely too big right now. What do you guys think of the design though?
Part of me says dwarven levers should be big. Another part says that lever is freaking huge.
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 02, 2009, 04:54:49 pm
Ok updated lever test with on and off.those look wonderful :D
(http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/9700/levertest.png)
Post by: Mephansteras on November 02, 2009, 04:57:03 pm
1) I think it is a bit big, but maybe stick it next to a Wall and some other objects to make sure it doesn't overlap them too much?
2) Remove the Green Light on the Lever. It's a bit too high-tech looking for a DF level.
Post by: quinnr on November 02, 2009, 04:57:40 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 02, 2009, 05:05:16 pm
2) Remove the Green Light on the Lever. It's a bit too high-tech looking for a DF level.
It's an emerald or something! I did have the same thought, but I'd say keep it.
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 02, 2009, 05:32:53 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 02, 2009, 05:48:46 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on November 02, 2009, 06:10:58 pm
Where is the file which lists and defines the entities in objects.png.
I'm trying to make a new sprite (for example, crossbows) and I don't know how I'll get the game to point to that sprite?
[Do I have to download each individual file from: http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ and then attack the program with Microsoft Visual to allow new object sprites into the game or is there a simpler way?]
PS - Also even if there is a simple solution... Is it possible to download the stonesense source to toy with? If so how?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 06:40:16 pm
I've experienced the missing keystroke issue myself. It comes from the fact that right now keys are polled. This is just a quick and dirty way of doing it, so I'm gonna look at making something more robustbuffer...but mind the limits?
Post by: kaypy on November 02, 2009, 07:31:37 pm
Since first post doesn't mention and I can't be arsed to search through entire thread, "Is Stonesense real time or pause only?"Not quite real time, but pretty close: There is an auto-update mechanism so you can tell it to fetch updates at varing frequencies.
I get about 10fps out of Stonesense, with DF running at 50fps at the same time. If you dont have a multi-core machine, it will probably hurt...
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 02, 2009, 07:34:56 pm
Not quite real time, but pretty close: There is an auto-update mechanism so you can tell it to fetch updates at varing frequencies.Got an i7 920 overclocked to 4.0 ghz machine at home, I'll run some tests tonight and see how god it can get. Thanks.
I get about 10fps out of Stonesense, with DF running at 50fps at the same time. If you dont have a multi-core machine, it will probably hurt...
Post by: kaypy on November 02, 2009, 07:46:36 pm
Where is the file which lists and defines the entities in objects.png.
I'm trying to make a new sprite (for example, crossbows) and I don't know how I'll get the game to point to that sprite?
[Do I have to download each individual file from: http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ and then attack the program with Microsoft Visual to allow new object sprites into the game or is there a simpler way?]
OK, for starters 'objects' per-se are not in the game yet. Creatures and buildings are, but I'm not sure we'll ever be able to usefully get object data: Even DF itself grinds to a halt on the stocks/stone screen, so...
But for buildings and creatures, there's XML definitions, so you just need to tweak text files- no compiling. Full details on the googlecode wiki.
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/w/list (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/w/list)
Quote
PS - Also even if there is a simple solution... Is it possible to download the stonesense source to toy with? If so how?
If you get a Subversion tool, you can download the whole lot as per the instructions on the googlecode website. There are instructions included (and in this thread at various points) for how to build it on MSVS, MinGW and Linux.
Of course, new sprites being added to the system will show up on the http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/) area before they get into a release, so its possible to get some mini-updates yourself that way without having to compile anything. But make sure to back up your building directory first, because the config format will sometimes change (eg the Bridges.xml now in SVN is not compatible with 0.3a)
Post by: kaypy on November 02, 2009, 07:58:59 pm
2) Remove the Green Light on the Lever. It's a bit too high-tech looking for a DF level.Its a lot less 'glowy' when not looking at it in 2x magnification.
A bit worried by size, but I'll check it out more carefully sometime when I shouldn't actually be heading off to work. 8-)
just a thought, but will corpses be taken into consideration?Objects are out of scope right now. Theres an 'occupancy:item' flag that may give us a generic object indicator, but getting at actual item information is not currently available (otherwise there'd be a whole bunch of 'get that sock outa the ----ing way' utilities)
Post by: Obsidian on November 02, 2009, 08:01:03 pm
What the hell?
Why is this so goddamn epic?
Post by: Octopusfluff on November 02, 2009, 09:31:36 pm
2) Remove the Green Light on the Lever. It's a bit too high-tech looking for a DF level.
While I understand the view of 'high-tech', the green/red, in my opinion, does a HUGE amount for making it very obvious at a glance what state it's in. Remembering left versus right on top of everything else you have to keep track of in DF... :D
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 02, 2009, 09:35:06 pm
Post by: Octopusfluff on November 02, 2009, 09:36:19 pm
Hmm. The biggest problem would be getting the DFHack library to work on OsX. Anyone who could do that should be able to get stonesense working without too many problems.
DFHack is listed as "OSX is not supported due to lack of developers with a Mac.". This may mean that theres cross-platform problems, or it may just mean no-one with a mac has attempted to compile it...
Well, I can try to stab at compiling it if/when I get home, but I had a hard enough time getting the win32 version of stonesense to compile. I've only access to MSVC++ 2008 Express Edition, and .. well, it didn't produce a binary that successfully did much of anything. But then, I didn't spend much time on it, either.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 02, 2009, 10:00:06 pm
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4904/levertestr.png)
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2065/ssleveron.png) (http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5165/ssleveroff.png)
Post by: pokute on November 02, 2009, 10:45:09 pm
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4904/levertestr.png)
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2065/ssleveron.png) (http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5165/ssleveroff.png)
Instead of the glowy dot, what if you made the whole exposed inner portion white vs. black to show the state?
Or maybe another scheme altogether:
State A - the outer plate completely covers the innards
State B - the inner mechanisms are half exposed and are of a different color
Post by: Footkerchief on November 02, 2009, 11:01:22 pm
Ok newest revision and the one I'll probably be putting down for the moment. I reduced the cowling a bit to make the red indicator a bit more obvious and a couple of other minor tweaks. The indicators are supposed to be any sort of red/green material (gems, bauxite, serpentine, etc.) and they get hidden by the cowling when the lever is moved. Nothing high tech.
(http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4904/levertestr.png)
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/2065/ssleveron.png) (http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5165/ssleveroff.png)
Looks great. No criticisms left here.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 03, 2009, 01:29:36 am
I'm getting variable 140-220 fps in DF with it running, the Stonesense settings are to reload every (at the minimum amount of) .2 seconds, apparently there's no option to set it for reload per # of frames? It makes the dwarves quite jumpy. I can probably slow it down at 30 fps and the dwarves will look perfect.
But holy crap is this awesome. I wish I could fraps it for you guys. Doing more testing.
My only criticism is the viewport is too small. Eventually it'd be nice to have items. Can we have loading done in even smaller intervals than .2 seconds? Great work so far!
EDIT: errorlog gives me "Unable to load building config buildings/Pump.xml" every time I manually refresh.
I have to quit Stonesense before exiting/saving my DF game, or Stonesense crashes. The program chews through my RAM, but thankfully I have a lot of that.
A lot of chasm creatures are giving me "?". As mentioned before the ability to change viewing angles would be amazing
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 03, 2009, 04:50:44 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUYIZsu664
Yeah, I got so distracted when things started dying. :'(
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2009, 05:50:56 am
I'm getting variable 140-220 fps in DF with it running, the Stonesense settings are to reload every (at the minimum amount of) .2 seconds, apparently there's no option to set it for reload per # of frames? It makes the dwarves quite jumpy.We dont have that degree of synchronization with DF
Quote
I wish I could fraps it for you guys. Doing more testing.It should have the time taken to draw in the top left (or was that just the dev editions?). I get about 70-80ms per frame, but my rig isnt spectacular.
Quote
My only criticism is the viewport is too small. Eventually it'd be nice to have items. Can we have loading done in even smaller intervals than .2 seconds? Great work so far!The screen size and loaded area are editable in the init file. You can also set it to move the displayed area up significantly, so that with a suitable sized area you will fill the screen.
The refresh interval is adjustable in increments of 0.1 seconds: keypad +/-. Maybe we should make that a bit more finegrained?
Quote
EDIT: errorlog gives me "Unable to load building config buildings/Pump.xml" every time I manually refresh.Yeah, that file is listed in buildings/index.txt, but we dont have a sprite or configuration for it. You could remove that line to quiet it up, but at the rate 7c is going, you'd need to put it back in by the weekend...
Quote
I have to quit Stonesense before exiting/saving my DF game, or Stonesense crashes.Obviously you shouldnt quit DF. Ever.
Quote
The program chews through my RAM, but thankfully I have a lot of that.A fix is in for this
Quote
A lot of chasm creatures are giving me "?". As mentioned before the ability to change viewing angles would be amazingYeah, not many creatures in yet. You may want to look at the sprite editting notes, and grab some critters from various graphics packs.
Rotating the camera is high on jonasks todo list 8-)
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 03, 2009, 05:57:15 am
In terms of the time to draw, it's editable by + and - on numpad, which was what I was using the bare minimum to achieve .2 seconds. I wish I could get .1s. Maybe it's at .1 in the dev version?
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2009, 06:05:23 am
Looks great. No criticisms left here.I have one remaining problem: I can't tell lever state yet! 8-/
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2009, 06:13:43 am
I wish I could get .1s. Maybe it's at .1 in the dev version?Ah! Theres a AUTO_RELOAD_STEP init setting.
Combine that with turning DEBUGMODE on so the system will tell you how fast it runs, and you should be able to get things pretty optimal 8-)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 03, 2009, 06:26:49 am
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 03, 2009, 06:31:39 am
SUCCESS, running at .1 second refresh, going to see how much I can push it next. Plenty of information now all over the screen that I have no idea what it is, hexes and the such.I wish I could get .1s. Maybe it's at .1 in the dev version?Ah! Theres a AUTO_RELOAD_STEP init setting.
Combine that with turning DEBUGMODE on so the system will tell you how fast it runs, and you should be able to get things pretty optimal 8-)
Didn't read through the whole thread, but I know there was already talk on cliff borders. Someone mentioned this on another forums and did a quick shop similar to mockups Mike Mayday did to further differentiate zlevels when he had his isometric ideas thread. It would help.
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/2010/1257246431564.png)
Wish I could do more but I can't code ;)
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2009, 07:20:23 am
Ok newest revision and the one I'll probably be putting down for the moment. I reduced the cowling a bit to make the red indicator a bit more obvious and a couple of other minor tweaks. The indicators are supposed to be any sort of red/green material (gems, bauxite, serpentine, etc.) and they get hidden by the cowling when the lever is moved. Nothing high tech.
Hmm. Hacking it into the system, ran into one issue: Banks of levers tend to overlap a touch confusingly.
Heres an attempt at providing better separation (reduced lever travel, contrasting handle colour).
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/leveredit.png)
(half of those levers are actually gear assemblies with hacked sprites- I still cant flip the levers in-game)
Post by: Neruz on November 03, 2009, 07:31:16 am
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 03, 2009, 07:53:21 am
Post by: Sarcophilus on November 03, 2009, 08:17:11 am
Interested enough to finally register on the forums.
What still needs to be done, what size do the images need to be, and specifically do you want someone to make graphics for the individual dwarf job classes (woodworker, mason, etc.)
Post by: The13thRonin on November 03, 2009, 09:32:32 am
Where is the file which lists and defines the entities in objects.png.
I'm trying to make a new sprite (for example, crossbows) and I don't know how I'll get the game to point to that sprite?
[Do I have to download each individual file from: http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ and then attack the program with Microsoft Visual to allow new object sprites into the game or is there a simpler way?]
OK, for starters 'objects' per-se are not in the game yet. Creatures and buildings are, but I'm not sure we'll ever be able to usefully get object data: Even DF itself grinds to a halt on the stocks/stone screen, so...
But for buildings and creatures, there's XML definitions, so you just need to tweak text files- no compiling. Full details on the googlecode wiki.
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/w/list (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/w/list)QuotePS - Also even if there is a simple solution... Is it possible to download the stonesense source to toy with? If so how?
If you get a Subversion tool, you can download the whole lot as per the instructions on the googlecode website. There are instructions included (and in this thread at various points) for how to build it on MSVS, MinGW and Linux.
Of course, new sprites being added to the system will show up on the http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/) area before they get into a release, so its possible to get some mini-updates yourself that way without having to compile anything. But make sure to back up your building directory first, because the config format will sometimes change (eg the Bridges.xml now in SVN is not compatible with 0.3a)
What about things like the Trees? the Saplings? Windows? Water? Dirt? Farmplots? These don't appear to be objects or creatures?
How would I say add in a special new ground-tile or new tree sprite for specific trees or barrel etc?
Post by: Fantastic Damage on November 03, 2009, 11:27:01 am
Hey, I just saw the youtube video and I'd love to help out with making sprites. Just let me know if you want more artists, I'd be happy to push some pixels for you ;D
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2009, 11:47:22 am
What about things like the Trees? the Saplings? Windows? Water? Dirt? Farmplots? These don't appear to be objects or creatures?Buildings and Creatures are configurable. Everything else, we are still working on...
How would I say add in a special new ground-tile or new tree sprite for specific trees or barrel etc?
A lot of stuff will need to be more configurable: mods can add all sorts of changes for us to cope with. But there's only so much we can do at a time.
So anything beyond Buildings and Creatures you'd need to do some programming for.
I am interested in making art for this program.Welcome aboard 8-)
Interested enough to finally register on the forums.
Quote
What still needs to be done, what size do the images need to be, and specifically do you want someone to make graphics for the individual dwarf job classes (woodworker, mason, etc.)My recommended approach would be:
If you can provide a missing sprite, or improve upon an existing sprite, then give it a go and we can see how it works out. Run the program, see what missing stuff annoys you, and fill in the blanks.
The only exception to this would be keeping an eye on the thread, so you can see what other folks are doing rather than duplicating effort.
The easiest way to get a feel for the image size is the open up the objects.png and have a look at one of the wall tiles. Since that are a "full" tile, your image will need to fit within that.
Currently the system doesn't support professions, but I cant imagine it will take that long. However, it will probably also start providing sprite combination functionality like for the buildings, so rather than designing individual tiles, you can design a base dwarf and apply modifications such as different equipment and such. This may or may not be easier- we'll see how it goes.
Jonask and Solifuge reserve the final decision on what art goes into the trunk release, but given that its pretty configurable, I imagine drop in graphics packages will be quite doable.
Post by: Fantastic Damage on November 03, 2009, 12:13:58 pm
What about things like the Trees? the Saplings? Windows? Water? Dirt? Farmplots? These don't appear to be objects or creatures?Buildings and Creatures are configurable. Everything else, we are still working on...
How would I say add in a special new ground-tile or new tree sprite for specific trees or barrel etc?
A lot of stuff will need to be more configurable: mods can add all sorts of changes for us to cope with. But there's only so much we can do at a time.
So anything beyond Buildings and Creatures you'd need to do some programming for.I am interested in making art for this program.Welcome aboard 8-)
Interested enough to finally register on the forums.QuoteWhat still needs to be done, what size do the images need to be, and specifically do you want someone to make graphics for the individual dwarf job classes (woodworker, mason, etc.)My recommended approach would be:
If you can provide a missing sprite, or improve upon an existing sprite, then give it a go and we can see how it works out. Run the program, see what missing stuff annoys you, and fill in the blanks.
The only exception to this would be keeping an eye on the thread, so you can see what other folks are doing rather than duplicating effort.
The easiest way to get a feel for the image size is the open up the objects.png and have a look at one of the wall tiles. Since that are a "full" tile, your image will need to fit within that.
Currently the system doesn't support professions, but I cant imagine it will take that long. However, it will probably also start providing sprite combination functionality like for the buildings, so rather than designing individual tiles, you can design a base dwarf and apply modifications such as different equipment and such. This may or may not be easier- we'll see how it goes.
Jonask and Solifuge reserve the final decision on what art goes into the trunk release, but given that its pretty configurable, I imagine drop in graphics packages will be quite doable.
so there isn't a definitive list of what sprites are and aren't made and implemented, as of yet?
Would it be helpful to compile such a list, and if so, would you like me to?
Post by: lendrick on November 03, 2009, 12:21:06 pm
I'm Bart, the proprietor of OpenGameArt.org (http://opengameart.org), and I was recently made aware of the tileset you're working on. I was wondering if it would be okay if we could archive it on our site, and perhaps in exchange OGA can help with producing tiles. Would that work?
Peace,
Bart
http://opengameart.org
Post by: winner on November 03, 2009, 12:34:49 pm
Ok newest revision and the one I'll probably be putting down for the moment. I reduced the cowling a bit to make the red indicator a bit more obvious and a couple of other minor tweaks. The indicators are supposed to be any sort of red/green material (gems, bauxite, serpentine, etc.) and they get hidden by the cowling when the lever is moved. Nothing high tech.
Hmm. Hacking it into the system, ran into one issue: Banks of levers tend to overlap a touch confusingly.
Heres an attempt at providing better separation (reduced lever travel, contrasting handle colour).
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/leveredit.png)
(half of those levers are actually gear assemblies with hacked sprites- I still cant flip the levers in-game)
I like it very much
Perhaps the bast place for the on/off indicator would be the ball on the end of the handle.
Post by: dyze on November 03, 2009, 01:11:26 pm
(http://img442.imageshack.us/img442/5551/65121375.gif)
(http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/3344/57406287.gif)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 03, 2009, 01:28:15 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 03, 2009, 01:37:49 pm
I like the Levers a lot. The only problem I see is that, eventually, the levers themselves may be made of red or green stone, which would interfere with color-coded indicators. I can't come up with a good alternative visual representation for Off/On though, unless the Lever was given a clear Engaged/Disengaged position.
Bart/Lendrick:
I'd be perfectly fine with letting my sprite art be archived on the OGA, though much of it is a work-in-progress, and the tricky bits are still being worked out. There have been a number of other art contributors to the project though, and though the project is Open Source, I can't speak for them or their work.
(Jonas! We need a Contributor's Disclaimer, stat!)
Post by: DennyTom on November 03, 2009, 01:51:19 pm
Also there is a lot of comments like "Awesome", "I might play this game after all", etc.
Post by: Solifuge on November 03, 2009, 02:28:02 pm
Guys on tigsource.com noticed your work and are excited: "Now this is a dream coming true right here!"
Also there is a lot of comments like "Awesome", "I might play this game after all", etc.
http://tigsource.com/articles/2009/11/03/stonesense-dwarf-fortress-visualizer (http://tigsource.com/articles/2009/11/03/stonesense-dwarf-fortress-visualizer)
Upon seeing Derek Yu himself post that this was a dream comming true, I don't entirely know what to say. Time to get ma game face on... or rather it is time to barely contain the schoolgirlish squee now bubbling in the pit of my stomach.
Yes, Dwarf Fortress is Serious Business.
Post by: Davion on November 03, 2009, 02:37:05 pm
I wish I could help but I am no good at pixel art. :(
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 03, 2009, 03:10:00 pm
Could you put the builds in the downloads section of Google Code? It's all well and good to come over to the forums for the link, but the Google Code site turns up higher on Google's search results (who'd have thunk it?) so it would save a couple clicks... ;D
Post by: darius on November 03, 2009, 03:16:26 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on November 03, 2009, 03:56:11 pm
OLD CHEST.
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/4294/chestold.png)
NEW CHEST.
(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/5331/chestnew.png)
Post by: Lightbulb on November 03, 2009, 04:19:31 pm
Does anyone know how I can fix this?
Thanks,
Lightbulb
Post by: Talvara on November 03, 2009, 05:28:35 pm
Here is a quick and bland goblin to fight off the questionmark invasion.
I whiped it up prettyfast so if someone takes a better stab at this that would be awesome ;)
Also... currently its not possible to display Job sprites right? Any idea on how possible that will be in the future?
Post by: jonask84 on November 03, 2009, 05:56:01 pm
I just got a grapefruit-sized kidney stone on Monday and have been enjoying it (and large doses of painkillers) ever since. And tomorrow I'll be going on a short businessish trip for the weekend, but rest assured. All appropriate feedback and kudos will be handed out once I get back :)
Take care guys!
Post by: IDreamOfGiniCoefficient on November 03, 2009, 05:57:24 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 03, 2009, 07:00:21 pm
Post by: Seth on November 03, 2009, 07:15:23 pm
I have to say though I think the graphics are too happy: DF (and roguelikes in general) has always seemed to me to be a very dark game. Which is fine, I think its best if people can choose whatever graphics they want, but I hope there will be the capability to make your own tilesets
Post by: Octopusfluff on November 03, 2009, 07:29:03 pm
I have to say though I think the graphics are too happy: DF (and roguelikes in general) has always seemed to me to be a very dark game. Which is fine, I think its best if people can choose whatever graphics they want, but I hope there will be the capability to make your own tilesets
Dark? I dunno about that. It seems there's a lot of cheerfulness about slaughtering your own dwarves. Why not have the game be bright and sunny about it too? :D
As for customization.. Well, yeah. But it's a lot of work; just getting a default base graphic set together is a good bit of work. It's amazing this much has happened already.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 03, 2009, 07:56:21 pm
Anyway, Solifuge, I fiddled with the levers a bit to try and fix the issues you brought up.
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/2065/ssleveron.png) (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/5165/ssleveroff.png)
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2009, 08:18:32 pm
I just downloaded Stonesense and got an error telling me I was missing alleg42.dll.Ive heard of others having the same problem- either go download allegro itself, or head over to the googlecode page and dig alleg42.dll out of the repository.
Does anyone know how I can fix this?
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/alleg42.dll (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/alleg42.dll)
I hope there will be the capability to make your own tilesetsAll the graphics are png, so you can swap in your own versions. A lot is becoming configurable, so you can handle different base DF data, as well (eg mods).
Post by: Sabre_Justice on November 03, 2009, 09:54:01 pm
Post by: MP2E on November 03, 2009, 10:39:07 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 03, 2009, 10:44:47 pm
Call me dumb, but how exactly do I get this thing to load a map? I've downloaded it into the DF folder, but it opens to say 'no map loaded' and I don't know how to get it to display my fortress.What version of DF are you using?
Stonesense is no where near as quick as it is in that video for me... It is horribly horribly laggy. I cannot even use the tool to be honest. I am running Arch Linux x64, and my CPU is a Pentium Dual 2.2ghz Nvidia 7100 and 3 GB of RAM. I dunno why it lags so bad...You should be able to use it for screenshots, I mean... pentium 2.2 ghz isn't even on the scale versus i7 4.0 ghz but it could be an issue with 64bit *nix?. How's your fps without stonesense?
Post by: Solifuge on November 03, 2009, 10:57:30 pm
this looks great, nice job all
I have to say though I think the graphics are too happy: DF (and roguelikes in general) has always seemed to me to be a very dark game. Which is fine, I think its best if people can choose whatever graphics they want, but I hope there will be the capability to make your own tilesets
When I was considering the original style I wanted to go with on the tiles, I considered something really grim and gritty for a while... but for some reason, the perverse irony of cartoony dwarves building magma-powered deathtraps that they dump on diplomats and the bourgeoisie, and cleaving cartoony goblins in two with big shiney axes was too great to pass up.
There's something decidedly "Itchy and Scratchy" or "Ren and Stimpy" about it.
Post by: Christes on November 03, 2009, 11:53:26 pm
Video of Stonesense in action for those who can't run it well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUYIZsu664
Yeah, I got so distracted when things started dying. :'(
I was not expecting to see Halltraded. I broke out laughing at the "oh, fire" comment.
That would be 10x more epic when my waterwheels were actually sprited.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 03, 2009, 11:59:28 pm
I was going to post it in the Halltraded thread but I forgot. hahahVideo of Stonesense in action for those who can't run it well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxUYIZsu664
Yeah, I got so distracted when things started dying. :'(
I was not expecting to see Halltraded. I broke out laughing at the "oh, fire" comment.
That would be 10x more epic when my waterwheels were actually sprited.
That siege was perfectly timed on the save D:
Post by: Seth on November 04, 2009, 12:14:43 am
this looks great, nice job all
I have to say though I think the graphics are too happy: DF (and roguelikes in general) has always seemed to me to be a very dark game. Which is fine, I think its best if people can choose whatever graphics they want, but I hope there will be the capability to make your own tilesets
When I was considering the original style I wanted to go with on the tiles, I considered something really grim and gritty for a while... but for some reason, the perverse irony of cartoony dwarves building magma-powered deathtraps that they dump on diplomats and the bourgeoisie, and cleaving cartoony goblins in two with big shiney axes was too great to pass up.
There's something decidedly "Itchy and Scratchy" or "Ren and Stimpy" about it.
Yeah I understand that, not really my thing though. I feel like there is something about the aesthetic of ASCII and roguelikes in general that always gets lost when these games are given actual graphics. But to tell the truth I'd enjoy working on an alternate tile/spriteset that works to preserve that, so maybe I'll start up a little project about it once this gets further along
Post by: Gaz-1 on November 04, 2009, 12:21:22 am
Post by: Rose on November 04, 2009, 12:25:35 am
Post by: Gaz-1 on November 04, 2009, 12:31:08 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 04, 2009, 12:34:06 am
Call me dumb, but how exactly do I get this thing to load a map? I've downloaded it into the DF folder, but it opens to say 'no map loaded' and I don't know how to get it to display my fortress.
I too get the no map loaded problem. I've copied the stonesense folder into my dwarf fort folder and I'm running d13.
Just checking... You are running Dwarf Fortress too, yes? Stonesense reads the Dwarf Fortress memory to get the maps, not the saved files. If you aren't running Dwarf Fortress or haven't loaded a game, it will display 'No map loaded'
If you are already running Dwarf Fortress, than I'm not sure what's up.
Post by: Gaz-1 on November 04, 2009, 12:37:38 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 04, 2009, 12:40:29 am
Yes, I am playing the game when I load up stonesense.That's strange then...
Post by: Gaz-1 on November 04, 2009, 12:48:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Both running at the same time.
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 04, 2009, 12:59:45 am
Both running at the same time.
Perhaps Stonesense hasn't realized that Dwarf Fortress has started? Try pressing 'R' to ask Stonesense to refresh. (Alternatively, press '+' on the numpad to set Stonesense to auto refresh)
Post by: Lightbulb on November 04, 2009, 01:02:24 am
I just downloaded Stonesense and got an error telling me I was missing alleg42.dll.Ive heard of others having the same problem- either go download allegro itself, or head over to the googlecode page and dig alleg42.dll out of the repository.
Does anyone know how I can fix this?
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/alleg42.dll (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/alleg42.dll)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 01:16:52 am
Yeah I understand that, not really my thing though. I feel like there is something about the aesthetic of ASCII and roguelikes in general that always gets lost when these games are given actual graphics. But to tell the truth I'd enjoy working on an alternate tile/spriteset that works to preserve that, so maybe I'll start up a little project about it once this gets further alongI already have a bit of that done. They're dead easy to make. Find my tileset thread... (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41692.msg793768#msg793768) edit: found. Is 16x16 though.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 04, 2009, 01:26:53 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on November 04, 2009, 01:43:24 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 04, 2009, 03:10:50 am
EDIT: I editted the dwarfs lightly, just giving them longer beards and a what I think is a dwarfier cap.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/creatures.png)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 04, 2009, 04:08:21 am
Post by: kaypy on November 04, 2009, 05:40:51 am
I copied the file into the stonesense folder but now when I run it I get an error saying "unable to set graphics mode."OK, I'm more or less flailing randomly by this point, but have you tried changing resolution and/or fullscreen in the init file?
Post by: Seth on November 04, 2009, 10:00:51 am
Yeah I understand that, not really my thing though. I feel like there is something about the aesthetic of ASCII and roguelikes in general that always gets lost when these games are given actual graphics. But to tell the truth I'd enjoy working on an alternate tile/spriteset that works to preserve that, so maybe I'll start up a little project about it once this gets further alongI already have a bit of that done. They're dead easy to make. Find my tileset thread... (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41692.msg793768#msg793768) edit: found. Is 16x16 though.
Whoa. I wasn't talking about such a direct translation but that is pretty cool!
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 04, 2009, 10:52:10 am
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3954/sswindmilltest.png)
I went with a vertical axis windmill because a. It's omnidirectional and b. it would actually fit into a 3x3 grid without horrible perspective warping.
Post by: Ezuku on November 04, 2009, 11:04:58 am
Ran fine, until I did something with my currently growing fortress and the game crashed. at the time, I was building a staircase down Z levels. Then, I restarted it, but I keep getting the same message whenever I try to load up that same map. I can load other maps just fine, although I haven't really experimented much with them.
Checking stonesense.log, this is the message that keeps appearing:
Quote
Stonesense launched
Unable to load building config buildings/Pump.xml
I'm not doing anything with pumps, infact I don't even have any water on this map. This causes a stonesense, but not DF, to crash.
Incidentally, fantastic programme, but biggest visual piece of advice is that the stand needs to look lot less horrible. Cheers!
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 04, 2009, 11:46:39 am
Quick Question, sicne I am guessing there is not a Mac version of this... is there someone I can send a File to to see what my Glorious fort looks like as a 16bit old school RPG video game?
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 04, 2009, 12:27:21 pm
(http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3954/sswindmilltest.png)
Post by: Arktanis on November 04, 2009, 01:52:43 pm
I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned before, but the visualizer shows you undiscovered magma and hidden creatures(Such as Kobold thives)
Post by: AlienChickenPie on November 04, 2009, 02:18:38 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1557
It happens whenever I get the "developed" part of the fortress lot on screen.
Also, here's a crash report:
Fault Module Version: 8.0.50727.4927
Fault Module Timestamp: 4a2752ff
Exception Offset: 00008aa0
Exception Code: c000000d
Exception Data: 00000000
OS Version: 6.1.7600.2.0.0.256.1
Locale ID: 1037
Additional Information 1: 7c4a
Additional Information 2: 7c4afdc9ad4d4fa96ac7f7c2c89301e7
Additional Information 3: 0b72
Additional Information 4: 0b72a5d0de9100ecdc4078a1b8b3b30f
Post by: LegoLord on November 04, 2009, 02:23:17 pm
Also note, you may have to change the z-level you are viewing. It tends to start out looking at the level just below your bottommost dug out level or a bit up in the sky for me.Both running at the same time.
Perhaps Stonesense hasn't realized that Dwarf Fortress has started? Try pressing 'R' to ask Stonesense to refresh. (Alternatively, press '+' on the numpad to set Stonesense to auto refresh)
Post by: Dr. Melon on November 04, 2009, 02:30:05 pm
Yeah, here it is:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/files/dwarf_show.png)
Post by: Gorobay on November 04, 2009, 03:45:21 pm
If you know what an & is or don't care about old spoilers, click.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 04, 2009, 04:15:23 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 04, 2009, 04:47:07 pm
If you know what an & is or don't care about old spoilers, click.Spoiler (click to show/hide)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Wait, so they have fingers and toes but not arms and legs... how can they be humanoid without arms and legs?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 04, 2009, 05:00:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 04, 2009, 05:05:34 pm
Post by: Mephansteras on November 04, 2009, 05:08:58 pm
Post by: Summoner on November 04, 2009, 05:11:58 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 04, 2009, 05:15:48 pm
Yes it does, look closer at the code I posted.
Ahh I see.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 04, 2009, 06:18:58 pm
Ok so I'm not necessarily done with this but I wanted to test to see if my method of making the tiles worked correctly. See if you can't get this in and let me know.
(http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/2917/sswindmillnw.png) (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/5474/sswindmilln.png) (http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/5087/sswindmillne.png)
(http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/4651/sswindmillw.png) (http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4712/sswindmillcenter.png) (http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/4102/sswindmille.png)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/1594/sswindmillsw.png) (http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/3194/sswindmills.png) (http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/5323/sswindmillse.png)
Post by: strich on November 04, 2009, 06:56:26 pm
Didn't Chris Hildenbrand of Spriteattack make a mockup of an isometric view? Maybe he could contribute sprites too!WOW! O_O Somebody contact this man immediately!
Yeah, here it is:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh also, while I'm here, I thought I'd mention that Kotaku (One of the most popular Gamer blogs) made mention of Stonesense the other day. Expect an army of on-lookers. :P
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 04, 2009, 07:04:46 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 04, 2009, 07:08:54 pm
I thought I'd mention that Kotaku (One of the most popular Gamer blogs) made mention of Stonesense the other day. Expect an army of on-lookers. :Pwat.
Post by: kaypy on November 04, 2009, 07:09:21 pm
Ok so I'm not necessarily done with this but I wanted to test to see if my method of making the tiles worked correctly. See if you can't get this in and let me know.It looks like that would 'work', but it would be better if each tile contained the contents actually in that x/y location, rather than just breaking the image up by 32x32 chunks...
Yeah, I know how much of a pain that is 8-) This will certainly do for a first pass. (The tile breakage only effects the draw order, so means overlapping sprites will look weirder (as opposed to merely weird))
One other thing: pretty soon we will need a few frames on animation for stuff like this... (I should be able to draw a different sprite each frame update, possibly before I can work out whether there's actually anything turning the mill...)
Post by: Ezuku on November 04, 2009, 07:54:05 pm
That whole pump thing causing the crashes?
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 04, 2009, 07:56:16 pm
Quote
Oh also, while I'm here, I thought I'd mention that Kotaku (One of the most popular Gamer blogs) made mention of Stonesense the other day.
Link?
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 04, 2009, 07:59:23 pm
Post by: strich on November 04, 2009, 09:34:48 pm
that looks like the next graphics tier up, though.What do you mean? WHats the difference between it and the graphics being done now?
Post by: Jotaf on November 04, 2009, 09:57:25 pm
I understand that developing it into a GUI would be a nice feature in the long term. But what if there was an easy way to control DF with the mouse? It wouldn't be a fully-featured GUI -- it would always be managed by DF -- but it would certainly bring a better GUI back to the short-term goals. The most annoying aspect is moving the cursor, so I'm sure lots of folks would kill to have it controlled by the mouse; but if the commands were clickable too it would also be great. Well, it just might be possible...
First, the commands. They obey rigid structures: there's usually the associated key to the left of the command description, after a colon; or to the far right, as in lists. If your program could access DF's display, and assuming the panel is fixed or known, so that clicks in the main view don't count: a click in a non-space character, or in a space between characters (ie, between words) is a command click. Now, just follow that row to the left, until you hit a colon, and the letter/word after that is the key your program must simulate for DF to issue the clicked command. If none is found, the command must be to the far right, like in lists.
This alone would let you click most commands in DF, turning GUI navigation into a breeze.
Secondly, the cursor. The basic behavior would be simply to record internally the last position of the cursor and turn a click into a series of presses of the appropriate keys: delta_x = click_x - cursor_x (in tiles), then if delta_x>0 press right delta_x times; if delta_x<0 press left -delta_x times. (Likewise for y). However, since the view can change, you'd also have to take its position into account. This would be a possibility whenever Stonesense is able to synchronize with DF's view by keeping track of its position.
What do you think? Too ambitious? I think it would be nice even if implemented in a very crude and simple way...
Post by: Footkerchief on November 04, 2009, 09:58:01 pm
that looks like the next graphics tier up, though.What do you mean? WHats the difference between it and the graphics being done now?
Much higher resolution.
e: actually upon inspection, it's not THAT much higher. Hmm.
Post by: strich on November 04, 2009, 10:02:52 pm
Indeed. I think we need to make the move. Is there any reason not to? Honestly?that looks like the next graphics tier up, though.What do you mean? WHats the difference between it and the graphics being done now?
Much higher resolution.
e: actually upon inspection, it's not THAT much higher. Hmm.
Post by: tehmarken on November 04, 2009, 10:26:58 pm
One thing I've noticed, is that when I have stockpiles, they are completely unshown in Stonesense. Does stonesense not know how to deal with stockpiles? It seems like the individual objects (barrels, beds, doors) show up fine in the world, but just not in a stockpile.
I'm at work right now (English teacher in Japan, so I'm GMT +8), but later today I'll going to scour this thread and consolidate all the graphical things I can. I'm also working on converting each class of dwarf; I'm using Mayday's tileset as my base (I really love his style of dwarves).
And that windmill looks awesome. Dunno how animation will go about getting done, but that would be epic :)
EDIT: To anybody working on graphics, I found a nifty overview of working in isometric, and converting 2D->iso : http://pixel-zone.rpgdx.net/shtml/tut-isometric.shtml (http://pixel-zone.rpgdx.net/shtml/tut-isometric.shtml)
Post by: Octopusfluff on November 04, 2009, 11:25:10 pm
One thing I've noticed, is that when I have stockpiles, they are completely unshown in Stonesense. Does stonesense not know how to deal with stockpiles? It seems like the individual objects (barrels, beds, doors) show up fine in the world, but just not in a stockpile.
Stonesense doesn't know about objects at all yet; that'll require more advancement in the dfhack library. Beds and doors are considered buildings, not objects. Barrels are objects, so do not show up. Stockpiles can be toggled (Didja read the readme file? :D ), but in the current release, they don't have any sprites configured. You'll have to fetch newer files from SVN.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 04, 2009, 11:38:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 04, 2009, 11:52:41 pm
will there be a sprite for each of the 7 levels, or will it stay full no matter the water level?
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 05, 2009, 12:16:22 am
Post by: Solifuge on November 05, 2009, 01:03:45 am
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7479/windmillredux.png)
I took a crack at rendering Nickle's awesome Windmill design as separate tiles. The rotation animation should be pretty easy from here too, using the cardinal directions. I also threw in a slightly stouter Vertical Axle too. More sprites to come!
Post by: Issidro on November 05, 2009, 01:23:17 am
Post by: DennyTom on November 05, 2009, 02:04:41 am
Sorry that I've been rather useless for art recently... I've been moving out of my old place in a bit of a hurry. Now that I've settled down, I've got a bit more time to work on stuff.
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/7479/windmillredux.png)
I took a crack at rendering Nickle's awesome Windmill design as separate tiles. The rotation animation should be pretty easy from here too, using the cardinal directions. I also threw in a slightly stouter Vertical Axle too. More sprites to come!
I have a question. Since all 4 wind cathing parts (how do you call them in english?) are same, how will the picture change when it rotates? It would be simple when there are only 2 of them, but 4?
Post by: Ampersand on November 05, 2009, 02:29:10 am
Post by: Ziusudra on November 05, 2009, 03:23:26 am
wind cathing parts (how do you call them in english?)Vanes or sails.
Post by: kaypy on November 05, 2009, 05:39:14 am
Dunno how animation will go about getting done, but that would be epic :)Currently buildings have a whole bunch of conditional options. It wouldnt be particularly difficult to make something like "is this an even or odd frame" another condition. (Or to get more detailed- I'm thinking 6 frame options would allow both 3 and 2 frame animations, as well as half speed versions of each)
Post by: kaypy on November 05, 2009, 06:18:31 am
Actually, my crash was also on a glacier. It worked fine until I started digging a little more. Anything I can do to fix? Can a fix be incoming?The "Unable to load building config buildings/Pump.xml" message just means that we dont have a file for configuring the screwpump. The system should quite happily ignore the missing file. It's more likely to be something to do with the glacier, especially if you dug down to the bottom ice level- glaciers are notorious for wierdness.
That whole pump thing causing the crashes?
Post by: 1138 on November 05, 2009, 06:28:35 am
I've been playing around with adding in some creature sprites to get rid of "?"s. My latest one is a donkey. I added it in, loaded it up, everything seemed to be working fine, when, lo and behold...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 05, 2009, 07:52:25 am
trees should be scaled up
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 05, 2009, 08:11:59 am
I tried in on a different computer, which resulted in the very same error. This makes me think it probably isn't an error on the coputer's side.
Anyway, here is the error log. I wonder if anyone could help me. Thanks!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaypy on November 05, 2009, 09:01:03 am
There are no fish or anything near that tile, and I can assure you that I have no water walking Jesus-donkeys in my fortress, so I don't know what's going on. Any clue what I'm doing wrong?If you see it again (or still), could you get some shots of what is going on in the DF window (preferably a z level either side, too) so we can see if theres anything that might be causing it.
Hmm. You didnt have a donkey die there at some stage did you? (theres a mode that shows dead critters, too)
Post by: kaypy on November 05, 2009, 09:05:18 am
Stonesense doesn't know about objects at all yet; that'll require more advancement in the dfhack library.At this stage I could make a generic "some unknown object" indicator- there is a occupancy flag for 'this tile contains an object'.
Would this be worthwhile even if it couldnt provide any information on what the object is?
Post by: dyze on November 05, 2009, 09:13:31 am
Post by: FlexibleDogma on November 05, 2009, 09:22:23 am
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/11/05/dwarf-phwoartress-the-stonesense-visualiser/
Post by: SirPenguin on November 05, 2009, 10:08:11 am
http://www.destructoid.com/new-stonesense-visualizer-makes-dwarf-fortress-playable-154149.phtml
Grats, duders! Though I do wonder at what point does this project start making Toady very nervous
Post by: dyze on November 05, 2009, 10:14:43 am
And Destructoid
http://www.destructoid.com/new-stonesense-visualizer-makes-dwarf-fortress-playable-154149.phtml
Grats, duders! Though I do wonder at what point does this project start making Toady very nervous
so many comments on all the sites about not getting into the game cuz of the UI, i really hope he starts to think about at least improving it in some way before he starts his next yearly arc project, i think he'd gain *alot* of players by doing so.
Post by: dyze on November 05, 2009, 10:30:08 am
http://www.casttv.com/video/3usj7n/stonesense-third-party-isometric-visualiser-for-dwarf-fortress-video
http://gamerblips.dailyradar.com/story/stonesense-dwarf-fortress-visualizer/
http://pixeljoint.com/2009/11/04/2963/Dwarf_Fortress_-_Now_in_Iso.htm
http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/stonesense-third-party-isometric-visualiser-for-dwarf-fortress/4060200863
http://www.gamer.ru/games/1205-slaves-to-armok-ii-dwarf-fortress/posts/24944?page=1#comment_251743
http://www.mygameloft.net/stonesense-isometric-dwarf-fortress-visualizer/
Post by: Ampersand on November 05, 2009, 10:42:35 am
Post by: kurokikaze on November 05, 2009, 11:00:30 am
Post by: Nilocy on November 05, 2009, 11:53:00 am
Yes, this is awesome. But unfortunately I refuse to play DF until the new verions here :(
Post by: Jotaf on November 05, 2009, 12:04:14 pm
so many comments on all the sites about not getting into the game cuz of the UI, i really hope he starts to think about at least improving it in some way before he starts his next yearly arc project, i think he'd gain *alot* of players by doing so.
Well, I just posted about a possible way for Stonesense to improve DF's GUI; but it got caught in the stream of new posts... :P
Here:
I understand that developing it into a GUI would be a nice feature in the long term. But what if there was an easy way to control DF with the mouse? It wouldn't be a fully-featured GUI -- it would always be managed by DF -- but it would certainly bring a better GUI back to the short-term goals. The most annoying aspect is moving the cursor, so I'm sure lots of folks would kill to have it controlled by the mouse; but if the commands were clickable too it would also be great. Well, it just might be possible...
First, the commands. They obey rigid structures: there's usually the associated key to the left of the command description, after a colon; or to the far right, as in lists. If your program could access DF's display, and assuming the panel is fixed or known, so that clicks in the main view don't count: a click in a non-space character, or in a space between characters (ie, between words) is a command click. Now, just follow that row to the left, until you hit a colon, and the letter/word after that is the key your program must simulate for DF to issue the clicked command. If none is found, the command must be to the far right, like in lists.
This alone would let you click most commands in DF, turning GUI navigation into a breeze.
Secondly, the cursor. The basic behavior would be simply to record internally the last position of the cursor and turn a click into a series of presses of the appropriate keys: delta_x = click_x - cursor_x (in tiles), then if delta_x>0 press right delta_x times; if delta_x<0 press left -delta_x times. (Likewise for y). However, since the view can change, you'd also have to take its position into account. This would be a possibility whenever Stonesense is able to synchronize with DF's view by keeping track of its position.
What do you think? Too ambitious? I think it would be nice even if implemented in a very crude and simple way...
Post by: 1138 on November 05, 2009, 01:10:30 pm
If you see it again (or still), could you get some shots of what is going on in the DF window (preferably a z level either side, too) so we can see if theres anything that might be causing it.Sure. FYI, when I press v the nearest creature is a peasant all the way across the map.
Hmm. You didnt have a donkey die there at some stage did you? (theres a mode that shows dead critters, too)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
pretty donkey :DThanks! If anyone's interested, I can post the tiles I'm making for my game here. I can't promise quality of any kind, though--I'm pretty new at this.
Post by: Solifuge on November 05, 2009, 01:18:55 pm
Huzzah! An animated Windmill that links appropriately with Mechanisms!
Yeah, its a simple 2-frame affair, and looks kinda like it jiggs back and forth until your brain is fooled by the illusion, but there you go!
Now, on to more serious business.
In my mind (Jonas might say differently), this is first and foremost a low-requirement Visualization tool; without Tarn stating that he is okay with us taking Stonesense in the direction of a GUI, I'm not going to push for it.
Through our participation in the development process of Dwarf Fortress, we all start to feel a little sense of ownership of the game... we've suggested features, tested for bugs, designed mods, spread publicity, and ultimately supported Tarn in this monumental effort. We all need to remember, however, that this is still Tarn's project, not ours, and it's an unpaid project at that. No matter how excited we all get about Dwarf Fortress, it's not at all fair to push him to do something that he doesn't want done... and he has already voiced his apprehensions about 3rd party graphical interfaces, and how that would impact the project.
Judging by how several on-line communities are viewing this project, especially the folks who say "Wow, now I might try Dwarf Fortress now!" or "I think I could finally get my friends to try this!" one can see that there is definitly a demand for a more accessable interface. Heck, I've even had friends I know in person say that this would get them into the game way more. The problem is that, if players start to rely on such a 3rd-party interface, the team designing it would have to be as dedicated as Tarn with updates and new features, or such an interface would have to be officially adopted... and collaboration is something he has also expressed great reservations about, as this is his brainchild.
But yes, in the universe where we are given the go-ahead from Tarn, interpreting mouse and key input with Stonesense, and translating it to input for DF would probably be the way to go. I'd imagine that drop-down menus for Constructions (a simple point-and-click for designating mining, sizing bridges, laying out roads and walls, etc.) would be doable, though anything beyond that depends entirely on the degree to we can interface with the program itself.
For now, though, the thing that keeps us from even being able to consider a GUI is the wealth of graphical issues that still need ironing out. We need tile rotations, fixes for some of the graphical hiccups such as the "Escher Effect", and a -Lot- more tiles and sprites. For now, focus on that, and if we can eventually pitch a solid visual display and interface to Tarn, and prove that this is a dedicated project, maybe we'll see such a thing down the road.
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 05, 2009, 01:34:39 pm
No matter what "we may want, we must all remember that it belongs to Tarn.
What is being built here should at its core be nothing more then something to enhance the game as it currently stands. As oyu mention Soul there is SO much more work to do before we should even consider anything more.
And on that note, is there a full list of All the sprites yet to be done?
Post by: DennyTom on November 05, 2009, 01:40:13 pm
"If you ever wished that Dwarf Fortress ever looked like FarmVille," erm...
Yes, this is awesome. But unfortunately I refuse to play DF until the new verions here :(
I guess this is because of the dwarf sprite. He really looks like a farmer.
Anyway ... the windmill looks very good!
Post by: Christes on November 05, 2009, 01:41:40 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WindmillReduxAnimated.gif)
Huzzah! An animated Windmill that links appropriately with Mechanisms!
Yeah, its a simple 2-frame affair, and looks kinda like it jiggs back and forth until your brain is fooled by the illusion, but there you go!
Sweet!
I love 2-frame animations. You can view it going forward, backward, and back-and-forth all within a 5-second interval.
Post by: Solifuge on November 05, 2009, 02:29:04 pm
As for a list of needed sprites, I'm cooking that one up now.
List of Constructable Materials, and what they look like:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneSmoothed.png) Natural Stone (Smoothed)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneRaw.png) Raw Stone (Cobblestones)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneBlock.png) Stone Blocks (Bricks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodRaw.png) Raw Wood (Trunks/Branches)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodBlock.png) Wood Blocks (Planks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/MetalBlock.png) Metal (Forged Bars/Plates)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/GlassBlock.png) Glass Blocks (Carved/Shaped)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 05, 2009, 02:38:25 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 05, 2009, 03:01:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Impaler, I know a lot of the Khazad, Lifevis, and 3Dwarf development all plays a part with Stonesense, and it would be great if they all can play well together/bounce ideas to develop the slick presentation that DF (and my video ;)) apparently lack. Jonask, I forgot to properly credit people on the video so any attempts at naming names of those who have added to Stonesense project would help, or if anyone wants to step up :)
From a marketing standpoint (Not that I'd know anything about that), I feel we should just continue pushing the visualisers in the direction of of being real-time, seamless side-by-side integration with DF. Focus on what we're good at before making claims of GUI and rushing out elements of a GUI without Toady's wishes. There's still plenty of room for improvement here on sprites, incorporating elements of other visualisers, and optimization.
High fives all around on you guys being the amazing coders i'll never be. :D
Post by: Afthartos on November 05, 2009, 03:29:45 pm
And with that I'm off to sweeden to smuggle some booze
For stronger stuff you should come to Finland
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 05, 2009, 04:56:39 pm
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/1835/sswwtest.png)
I think I'm leaning too heavily on my solid outlines, need to work on loosening them up.
Post by: DennyTom on November 05, 2009, 05:00:19 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 05, 2009, 05:18:32 pm
so many comments on all the sites about not getting into the game cuz of the UI, i really hope he starts to think about at least improving it in some way before he starts his next yearly arc project, i think he'd gain *alot* of players by doing so.
There's a good chance you'll get your wish. Toady is going to be working through the top 10 Eternal Suggestions items (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php) soon after the upcoming release, on which "Full graphics support" stands at #7.
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 05, 2009, 05:22:15 pm
so many comments on all the sites about not getting into the game cuz of the UI, i really hope he starts to think about at least improving it in some way before he starts his next yearly arc project, i think he'd gain *alot* of players by doing so.
There's a good chance you'll get your wish. Toady is going to be working through the top 10 Eternal Suggestions items (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php) soon after the upcoming release, on which "Full graphics support" stands at #7.
Although he's also said that he may jump around or ignore items in this list as he sees fit (as it should be). Still, fingers crossed for options in the future.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 05, 2009, 05:24:14 pm
Although he's also said that he may jump around or ignore items in this list as he sees fit (as it should be). Still, fingers crossed for options in the future.
Yeah. I'm encouraged by the fact that better graphics support is already a Core item, though:
# Core50, TILESET SUPPORT, (Future): Allow graphical tiles to be used for all game objects.
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 05, 2009, 05:33:22 pm
Comprehensive, uniform menus, tooltips, context based- menus, full mouse support... now THAT's where it's at.
Post by: dyze on November 05, 2009, 05:34:14 pm
There's a good chance you'll get your wish. Toady is going to be working through the top 10 Eternal Suggestions items (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/eternal_voting.php) soon after the upcoming release, on which "Full graphics support" stands at #7.
well, now that we have stonesense, a real user interface feels a lot more urgent imo :)
edit: ninjad by mayday!
Post by: soul4hdwn on November 05, 2009, 05:59:28 pm
Now, on to more serious business.
In my mind (Jonas might say differently), this is first and foremost a low-requirement Visualization tool; without Tarn stating that he is okay with us taking Stonesense in the direction of a GUI, I'm not going to push for it.
Through our participation in the development process of Dwarf Fortress, we all start to feel a little sense of ownership of the game... we've suggested features, tested for bugs, designed mods, spread publicity, and ultimately supported Tarn in this monumental effort. We all need to remember, however, that this is still Tarn's project, not ours, and it's an unpaid project at that. No matter how excited we all get about Dwarf Fortress, it's not at all fair to push him to do something that he doesn't want done... and he has already voiced his apprehensions about 3rd party graphical interfaces, and how that would impact the project.
Judging by how several on-line communities are viewing this project, especially the folks who say "Wow, now I might try Dwarf Fortress now!" or "I think I could finally get my friends to try this!" one can see that there is definitly a demand for a more accessable interface. Heck, I've even had friends I know in person say that this would get them into the game way more. The problem is that, if players start to rely on such a 3rd-party interface, the team designing it would have to be as dedicated as Tarn with updates and new features, or such an interface would have to be officially adopted... and collaboration is something he has also expressed great reservations about, as this is his brainchild.
But yes, in the universe where we are given the go-ahead from Tarn, interpreting mouse and key input with Stonesense, and translating it to input for DF would probably be the way to go. I'd imagine that drop-down menus for Constructions (a simple point-and-click for designating mining, sizing bridges, laying out roads and walls, etc.) would be doable, though anything beyond that depends entirely on the degree to we can interface with the program itself.
For now, though, the thing that keeps us from even being able to consider a GUI is the wealth of graphical issues that still need ironing out. We need tile rotations, fixes for some of the graphical hiccups such as the "Escher Effect", and a -Lot- more tiles and sprites. For now, focus on that, and if we can eventually pitch a solid visual display and interface to Tarn, and prove that this is a dedicated project, maybe we'll see such a thing down the road.
ok i hear often that toady doesnt' want to support third party stuff but everyone is missing the point...make teh third party tool fit dwarf fortress not the other way around. this "mod" like visualizer indeed is the perfect thing for the gamers that get eye-bleed/head-ache from ascii stuff or minor graphics.
this mini project so far is totaly capable to getting info from dwarf fortress and make a pseudo GUI. but remember, read or use DF not make DF use gui. just have some sort of "send" and "get" and everything should be safe for compatibility issues.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 06:05:17 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WindmillReduxAnimated.gif)Change the coloring on the right vane. It looks like it's oriented same as the left vane (which looks right to me). Which makes it look like one (or, if you believe it's spinning) all of the vanes invert mysteriously in that position, then invert back.
Huzzah! An animated Windmill that links appropriately with Mechanisms!
List of Constructable Materials, and what they look like:Omitted materials (40d): Metal Blocks. Less important but also omitted: Ash/potash/pearlash. Soaps. Charcoal.. And that smoothed stone doesn't look like smoothed stone- it ISN't constructed after all, but smoothed bedrock. You need a nice, flat surface to engrave after all.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneSmoothed.png) Natural Stone (Smoothed)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneRaw.png) Raw Stone (Cobblestones)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneBlock.png) Stone Blocks (Bricks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodRaw.png) Raw Wood (Trunks/Branches)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodBlock.png) Wood Blocks (Planks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/MetalBlock.png) Metal (Forged Bars/Plates)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/GlassBlock.png) Glass Blocks (Carved/Shaped)
Furthermore when (I hope you're planning to) you include the metal colors...adamantine will look like glass.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 05, 2009, 06:25:45 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneSmoothed.png) Natural Stone (Smoothed)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneRaw.png) Raw Stone (Cobblestones)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneBlock.png) Stone Blocks (Bricks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodRaw.png) Raw Wood (Trunks/Branches)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodBlock.png) Wood Blocks (Planks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/MetalBlock.png) Metal (Forged Bars/Plates)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/GlassBlock.png) Glass Blocks (Carved/Shaped)
Your 'natural stone' look likes constructed stone blocks. Your 'raw stone' looks like a 'rough' constructed stone wall from raw stone, not blocks. The stone block one is just odd, you have tiled bricks on the sides but the top is a grid?
I would use the first one 'natural stone' for constructed stone block walls, the 2nd one for constructed walls from natural stone. The third one could probably be reworked for glass blocks, as I don't see them casting one huge glass block for a wall. Raw wood is fine as-is, or you could make them stacked horizontally. Either one works. The wood blocks you have there look fine. Just my 2 bits, great work overall.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 05, 2009, 06:32:17 pm
Quote
this mini project so far is totaly capable to getting info from dwarf fortress and make a pseudo GUI. but remember, read or use DF not make DF use gui. just have some sort of "send" and "get" and everything should be safe for compatibility issues.
I don't think you realize how hard that is, the DFHack program is built on years of hacking into the DF memory structure by numerous dedicated people each building on earlier work and its no ware near getting access to all the data which is by the way constantly moving around in each version of DF, without constant hacking it becomes incompatible almost immediately. DFHack also has to halt DF when reading data which is going to cause significant slowdown, its never going to be able to substitute for a real API.
Post by: Arcalane on November 05, 2009, 07:42:59 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneSmoothed.png) Natural Stone (Smoothed)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneRaw.png) Raw Stone (Cobblestones)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneBlock.png) Stone Blocks (Bricks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodRaw.png) Raw Wood (Trunks/Branches)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodBlock.png) Wood Blocks (Planks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/MetalBlock.png) Metal (Forged Bars/Plates)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/GlassBlock.png) Glass Blocks (Carved/Shaped)
Your 'natural stone' look likes constructed stone blocks. Your 'raw stone' looks like a 'rough' constructed stone wall from raw stone, not blocks. The stone block one is just odd, you have tiled bricks on the sides but the top is a grid?
I would use the first one 'natural stone' for constructed stone block walls, the 2nd one for constructed walls from natural stone. The third one could probably be reworked for glass blocks, as I don't see them casting one huge glass block for a wall.
Yet it only takes one glass block to make a glass block wall... ;) I agree though, the natural stone would look better as constructed with blocks, the raw stone looks fine, and the stone blocks (well, bricks) look a bit small. The natural stone should be a single face and look a bit rougher, like a fresh and unsmooth tunnel wall, rather than odd, neat giant blocks.
Found the thread from RPS. Very nice pixelwork here guys, I think the style fits DF nicely. Makes me think of X-COM, I must say.
Post by: LegoLord on November 05, 2009, 07:48:06 pm
I think he means that instead of hacking DF, DF actively sends data to stonesense. I think I can sort of see how it could work - each stonesense tile has an associated variable, and it is these variables that DF sends to stonesense, along with their arrangement along the grid. From that stonesense organizes it.Quotethis mini project so far is totaly capable to getting info from dwarf fortress and make a pseudo GUI. but remember, read or use DF not make DF use gui. just have some sort of "send" and "get" and everything should be safe for compatibility issues.
I don't think you realize how hard that is, the DFHack program is built on years of hacking into the DF memory structure by numerous dedicated people each building on earlier work and its no ware near getting access to all the data which is by the way constantly moving around in each version of DF, without constant hacking it becomes incompatible almost immediately. DFHack also has to halt DF when reading data which is going to cause significant slowdown, its never going to be able to substitute for a real API.
All that really need be done once something like that was in place (if it were to be put in place) would be for DF to consistently use the same variables for each tile, and then stonsense would only need to be updated for adding new variables (I think) - doesn't sound too hard.
Edit: for example, [34:20:1:12:32:15] could describe to stonesense [CREATURE:DWARF:MINER:X:Y:Z] (note that I'm just making up these numbers and even the format off the top of my head to help you understand the sort of thing I'm talking about - it is by no means meant to suggest that this is how it is required to be done should it be done at all).
Still sounds like it could drain resources a bit, though.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 05, 2009, 08:54:09 pm
Quote
I think he means that instead of hacking DF, DF actively sends data to stonesense. I think I can sort of see how it could work - each stonesense tile has an associated variable, and it is these variables that DF sends to stonesense, along with their arrangement along the grid. From that stonesense organizes it.
What your describing is an API and Toady has steadfastly refused every appeal to add it to DF (which I personally find unconscionable, either provide a real UI or an API, refusing to do either is simply an insult). soul4hdwn was clearly indicating something else, that DFHack should do all retrieval too and writing too DF and I pointed out that he dose not understand the technical limitations involved which make our current hacking approach extremely limited and why it will never be a true API no matter how much work is put into it.
Post by: LegoLord on November 05, 2009, 09:19:28 pm
Just because Toady might have refused something on a few occasions doesn't mean that fellow has seen the refusal, so you shouldn't go making assumptions that he does and that it automatically affects what he is suggesting. Just say, "Toady's already said no to that."
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 05, 2009, 09:31:55 pm
(http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1835/sswwtest.png)
I might redo the mechanical stuff to match the new wood color when I animate them.
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 05, 2009, 09:35:21 pm
(which I personally find unconscionable, either provide a real UI or an API, refusing to do either is simply an insult)I'm of two minds about this. On one hand, the DF community is one of the best modding communities I've seen in a long time and for programs based on DFHack, they've done everything just by attaching to the process and reading the memory. So of course, I'd be interested if Toady were to open up and allow an API.
On the other hand, I know what it's like to have a project of this magnitude, it's an extreme investment of his time and becomes extremely personal to the person writing it. If he opens up the project who knows what might happen. Worst case scenario, he might lose control of the project. So I'm not so sure if Toady's refusal to add an API is really that insulting.
He mentioned "send" and "get" - that implies that both programs would be actively involved in the process.That's not strictly true. With memory reading / injection it's possible to do all of the reading and writing from Stonesense's side; however it's really not a good idea for the long run. At this point, we're really just arguing about semantics, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in.
Post by: kaypy on November 05, 2009, 09:57:26 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 05, 2009, 09:59:34 pm
One waterwheel issue: what does it look like when the water is drained out?Actually, thinking about things a bit more, We can probably do some hacky stuff where it's really needed, so we may be able to force the waterwheel building to expand into the z-level below.
Post by: The13thRonin on November 05, 2009, 10:12:45 pm
What your describing is an API and Toady has steadfastly refused every appeal to add it to DF ...(which I personally find unconscionable, either provide a real UI or an API, refusing to do either is simply an insult)...
Dwarf Fortress is Toady One's project, he quit his job to work on this and it is his gift to us. It is free, we don't have to pay and he not only gives constant updates but also actively listens and engages with his community. The real insult is to not respect his wishes in allowing him to get around to it when he has the time. He has given his reasons many times for why he has made the decisions that he has. I like Stonesense and I think that the added attention it will bring to DF will be good for Toady and good for us all but I think you're out of line Impaler[WrG]. We are not in a position to demand anything from Toady or to criticize him for what is very obviously a labor of love.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 05, 2009, 10:24:52 pm
I kind of suspect that it might be as simple as parsing the DF raws for materials yourself. Vanilla that'll work fine, because materials are nice and isolate, so the file read order shouldn't affect subindices if they all 0-base.
But if they're spread across files, you need to guess Toady's file order-wait. Ne'ermind. Pretty obvious he goes by alphabet, by how the animals in animal stockpile are arranged. (Verified on metals.)
Aaand verified parse order, at least for animals- bphibians (toad) comes after birds before domestics, rather than at the start like toad usually is. (See: toad bone bugs)
And metals (putting a new metal "borglite" in its own raw and changing where the file fell in alphabet (matgloss_borglite vs matgloss_zzborglite) correctly changed it from first in line to last. (These also taught me you need to make the file name match internally or it ignores that file)
Strangely, the order appears to be reverse of the pile on embark (bismuth bronze...gold,iron) . I wonder why that is. Anyway, it should be fairly easy to check which way it's stored in tile.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 05, 2009, 10:40:08 pm
...
We are not in a position to demand anything from Toady or to criticize him for what is very obviously a labor of love.
Word.
LN
Post by: PantheraDwarfus on November 06, 2009, 01:10:24 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: toryoom on November 06, 2009, 01:17:45 am
Dwarf Fortress is Toady One's project, he quit his job to work on this and it is his gift to us. It is free, we don't have to pay and he not only gives constant updates but also actively listens and engages with his community. The real insult is to not respect his wishes in allowing him to get around to it when he has the time. He has given his reasons many times for why he has made the decisions that he has. I like Stonesense and I think that the added attention it will bring to DF will be good for Toady and good for us all but I think you're out of line Impaler[WrG]. We are not in a position to demand anything from Toady or to criticize him for what is very obviously a labor of love.
Wanting to comment on this for a long time prompted me to register for a "quick" 2 cents.
See, I'm of the opinion that all of the above quote can be utterly true and deserves to be respected without actually diminishing or even modifying the central point that those begging for some form of real graphics support have been trying to make for a while now; thus really requiring some serious consideration for a balanced compromise to be needed, likely something along the lines of sooner than later, if this issue is to ever be truly silenced for good (Stonesense might just be that compromise).
[but my post was entirely too long and slightly redundant in places, so I scrapped it. ...It may return. ...Someday. ...Someday. :) ]
Post by: Solifuge on November 06, 2009, 02:00:07 am
It shall be glorious.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneSmoothed.png) Natural Stone (Smoothed)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneRaw.png) Raw Stone (Cobblestones)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/StoneBlock.png) Stone Blocks (Bricks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodRaw.png) Raw Wood (Trunks/Branches)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/WoodBlock.png) Wood Blocks (Planks)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/MetalBlock.png) Metal (Forged Bars/Plates)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/GlassBlock.png) Glass Blocks (Carved/Shaped)
Your 'natural stone' look likes constructed stone blocks. Your 'raw stone' looks like a 'rough' constructed stone wall from raw stone, not blocks. The stone block one is just odd, you have tiled bricks on the sides but the top is a grid?
I would use the first one 'natural stone' for constructed stone block walls, the 2nd one for constructed walls from natural stone. The third one could probably be reworked for glass blocks, as I don't see them casting one huge glass block for a wall. Raw wood is fine as-is, or you could make them stacked horizontally. Either one works. The wood blocks you have there look fine. Just my 2 bits, great work overall.
"Natural" Stone should have been labeled Smoothed Stone; regardless, its one I'm having the most trouble properly representing. It is what texture results when plain stone layers are Smoothed by engravers. The blocklike texture is meant to be lines carved directly into the wall, rather than something that the dwarves have built up, to add a sense of texture. The major reasoning was to differentiate between actual Natural stone and Smoothed Stone, which are tough to show when dealing with neatly differentiated cubes of stone.
Raw Stone is used for walls built from plain hunks of stone that miners have mined, without any sort of processing, IE a mortar and cobblestones. Walls like this have been done for ages prior to brick-based masonry techniques, and they require less work, but are as a result less strong and fall apart sooner.
Stone Block walls are, in my mind, made of cut Bricks and Mortar; they're what results when you take the little raw stones you've mined out, and process them into neat blocks before deciding what to do with them. As you can see on the top, the bricks themselves are Square, not Rectangular, and the "Grid" you're seeing is a 3x3 checkerboard etching done to allow them to seal better with the brick above, and most importantly to make the floor more visually interesting.
There is method (and in some cases, historical research) to my madness.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 02:47:14 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 03:00:37 am
CobaltKobold:so we aren't limited by stone color or type, but can have different textures for every one.That is good. But I think the default color applied to [materialtype] would be a good backup for mods, and until you individually texture them.
Don't forget metal blocks. You can make 'em and make stuff of 'em.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 06, 2009, 03:22:59 am
Quote
Question. Is there a way to only colorize part of an image? Like being able to apply a color to everything in an image that is pure grayscale and leave everything else that already has color information alone? I think that would be the ideal setup.
Certainly its doable, just check if the RGB values at a pixel are all equal and if so color it while leaving other pixels alone. The downside is that you only get to use one color on it which I don't think is enough diversity to show the myriad materials people expect, though more layers might compensate.
Post by: Solifuge on November 06, 2009, 03:58:41 am
Question. Is there a way to only colorize part of an image? Like being able to apply a color to everything in an image that is pure grayscale and leave everything else that already has color information alone? I think that would be the ideal setup.
:P At the risk of sounding like a broken record, this is the planned method for color replacement once we implement it. There will be 2-4 "Hue-Shifting" grayscale gradients that can each be assigned a different color value for a given sprite, and the remaining colors will be static.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 04:48:54 am
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/7051/wwanimtest.gif)
I think Im gonna play with the foam a bit more, the wood is currently super water repellent and comes out of the water completely dry.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 04:52:17 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 06, 2009, 04:53:20 am
Post by: Grif on November 06, 2009, 05:29:55 am
Just a question: in order to view the fortress in "real time" one has to keep the R key pressed, right? There is no way to set up Stonesense so it keeps automatically refreshing it's memory from DF?
Cheers and keep up the good work.
Post by: Rose on November 06, 2009, 05:31:57 am
does anybody ever read the readme?
Post by: tehmarken on November 06, 2009, 05:42:36 am
And that animated waterwheel looks amazing!
And on the subject of the walls: For the smooth wall, I think it would be better to make something of an uncarved look, like a granite countertop. The raw stone looks cool (that's for a constructed wall made from just stone, correct?). The brick wall does look odd on top. From the sides, the bricks have a distinct rectangular shape, but from the top you can't make out that shape at all. I think it would be better to keep the rectangular pattern on top, and then put dark spots for the holes, like in this picture:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyways, awesome seeing so much work being done :)
Post by: Innominate on November 06, 2009, 07:35:14 am
Say for example a method analogous to a hash table. We get our hash value based on the x, y and z positions and then modulus by the number of available sprites. Obviously not a priority, just something that would be nice to see implemented.
Post by: dyze on November 06, 2009, 07:41:57 am
Post by: kaypy on November 06, 2009, 08:06:31 am
yeah thats a nice pyramid, the stone looks a bit too perfectly smooth tho, could use a hint of graininessActually, that's not "stone ramp" that's "placeholder ramp"
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 08:52:29 am
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7051/wwanimtest.gif)
Think Im about done. Then I just have to flip it and redo ALL the shading to make the East/West version.
Post by: Talvara on November 06, 2009, 10:24:23 am
gonna be awesome ingame
Post by: Slogo on November 06, 2009, 10:26:04 am
Quote
I love how im able to mind force the wheel to spin the other way around, its such a strange feeling when you manage to flip it in your brain!Which is perfect since the water could be flowing in either direction.
Post by: Grif on November 06, 2009, 12:24:37 pm
To be fair, I read the README and somehow missed that part.
Likewise.
The readme actually says:
Numpad + and -: Set automatic reload
and it's under:
--==debug keys==--
(prolly not useful for you guys)
Well, seems like it's useful after all huh?
Anyway, cheers!
Post by: shikijiyu on November 06, 2009, 12:42:26 pm
With the obvious caveat that it should not lead him into a superstar lifestyle (although he deserves it :0), sitting poolside while surrounded by adoring fans and lazily drinking an ice cold margarita, I firmly believe that Tarn deserves a large suitcase full of cash. A suitcase so bursting with cold currency that he can continue to develop Dwarf Fortress without the concerns of supporting a very luxurious and comfortable lifestyle. The sort of heap of money that would allow him to do whatever he might please.
While many generous supporters do a great deal as is, I think he deserves more. Everyone reading this (except YOU, random Kotaku reader) has played and loved DF for a good while now. We eagerly check the development page, hopefully anticipating the glorious new release. We pour over the forums, looking for and giving out answers as needed. We revel in the fantastic world that is Dwarf Fortress, and we love every minute of it.
But I am not satisfied. Though I am near bursting with earnest enthusiasm as I introduce strangers to this incredible game, I find myself, more often than I can bear, looking into the face of sullen rejection. How many of us have hefted the stout axe of the gameplay argument in defense of the attack against graphics? How many of us have handed out the promises of distant fulfillment while patiently urging newcomers to just keep climbing that learning curve?
It is easy for us to shrug it off. After all, we are the DF players. If they do not like it, then more game for us, right?
This argument has become unacceptable. This game is too amazing to jealously hoard. The wonder is too great not to share. The very IDEA behind Dwarf Fortress needs to be spread across the community of gaming developers. Everyone who overcomes the learning curve and can handle the graphics comes to love and cherish this game. And therein lies the problem.
It is a sad fact that we are here, in a world where graphics have become so important, where wonderful gameplay can be cast to the wayside in favor of shiny baubles. But we are here nonetheless. Concessions must be made. To earn Tarn that suitcase full of cash that he deserves, this game must be made more accessible. It must be made available to those who need graphics. There are, of course, those who will not be able to handle the depth. As any community of players grows large enough, there will be those who are naysayers. But the potential reward to be reaped by opening this game up to the masses, by spreading the glory of DF to everyone, is unquestionable.
So please. Keep toiling. Keep working your incredible, beautiful magic. Keep throwing your all into this outstandingly amazing project.
And Tarn, if you happen to read this, please consider lending your all-important stamp of approval to this project. I believe laying the groundwork for that bridge to a larger audience is incredibly important. And Scamps could use a gold water bowl.
Post by: winner on November 06, 2009, 12:44:28 pm
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6003/screwpump.png)
Post by: dyze on November 06, 2009, 03:21:09 pm
I made a simple screw pump proptype, it needs polishing.
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/6003/screwpump.png)
looks nice
Post by: The13thRonin on November 06, 2009, 03:22:51 pm
Scamps could use a gold water bowl.
I believe he'd prefer adamantine ;).
Post by: Footkerchief on November 06, 2009, 03:33:08 pm
What your describing is an API and Toady has steadfastly refused every appeal to add it to DF (which I personally find unconscionable, either provide a real UI or an API, refusing to do either is simply an insult).
I'm late to this tangent, but Toady hasn't "refused" to "provide a real UI." He just hasn't prioritized it as much as some people want. There's a rather gigantic difference -- there are a ton of dev items relating to UI overhauls.
"Natural" Stone should have been labeled Smoothed Stone; regardless, its one I'm having the most trouble properly representing. It is what texture results when plain stone layers are Smoothed by engravers. The blocklike texture is meant to be lines carved directly into the wall, rather than something that the dwarves have built up, to add a sense of texture.
That was exactly what I saw when I looked at it. I think all of those stone textures look awesome, personally.
Also that waterwheel is just beautiful.
Post by: winner on November 06, 2009, 04:21:19 pm
I edited so that there is a gear on the bottom front to try to make it intuitive how power can be transmitted.
Post by: Belal on November 06, 2009, 04:27:36 pm
So I just finished getting the dwarf names into dfhack, so I whipped up a few quick changes to get stonesense to display them!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Here is the simple patch, you just have to get the newest dfhack first as well.
Code: [Select]
Index: GUI.cpp
===================================================================
--- GUI.cpp (revision 152)
+++ GUI.cpp (working copy)
@@ -135,6 +135,10 @@
textprintf(target, font, 2, config.screenHeight-20-(i--*10), 0xFFFFFF,
"Creature: %s(%i) ",
v_creatureNames.at(b->creature.type).id, b->creature.type);
+ textprintf(target, font, 2, config.screenHeight-20-(i--*10), 0xFFFFFF,
+ "Name:%s %s %s ",
+ b->creature.first_name.c_str(), b->creature.nick_name.c_str(), b->creature.trans_name.c_str());
+
char strCreature[150] = {0};
generateCreatureDebugString( &b->creature, strCreature );
Post by: Banzayatc on November 06, 2009, 04:51:25 pm
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2isi0k3.png)
Also, I'll try to persuade him to draw some more sprites, if you need them.
Post by: Solifuge on November 06, 2009, 05:40:44 pm
Dwarf Names!
Holy Carp! Excellence!
A man I know drew (drawn? keep forgetting that rule) these elves. I'm posting with his permission, of course.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2isi0k3.png)
Also, I'll try to persuade him to draw some more sprites, if you need them.
I just had a Flashback to RPGMaker. That elf's face was on one of the main characters from some RPG project I was working on almost a decade ago :P
More seriously though, since the RTP from RM2K/3 isn't open-source, I don't think we can use it. Sorry.
Post by: Banzayatc on November 06, 2009, 05:49:03 pm
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 06, 2009, 07:12:32 pm
OI don't know if it's the Anime Fan in me, But I always see Elves as the overly Efem always blond and sparkling types, I can't imagine a black-haired elf. :P
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 07:27:18 pm
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1722/smoothtest.png)
I don't know if as a rule you were trying to avoid top of wall tiles being the same as floor tiles but I can always revise it. I think I can also make engraved walls out of these.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 07:38:01 pm
After the discussion earlier I thought I might try my hand at the smoothed rock walls.Two thumbs up for the side. Change the floor though, it doesn't look 'smoothed'.
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/1722/smoothtest.png)
I don't know if as a rule you were trying to avoid top of wall tiles being the same as floor tiles but I can always revise it. I think I can also make engraved walls out of these.
yeh you'll need a smoothed floor tile a'so, but maybe not paired...you're ne'er s'posed to see the top of a wall tile after all.
Post by: Rorax on November 06, 2009, 07:53:47 pm
Lemme know I'd love to lend a hand to the project.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 08:24:04 pm
(http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/5760/engravingtest.png)
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on November 06, 2009, 08:40:33 pm
Or maybe something with a horse.
Or mountains.
Options!
Post by: Bricks on November 06, 2009, 08:44:16 pm
Post by: Greiger on November 06, 2009, 08:45:13 pm
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 06, 2009, 08:50:42 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 06, 2009, 08:53:59 pm
Won't we have to make a seperate Tile, from two anglesthree. engraved floor.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 08:56:07 pm
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5760/engravingtest.png)
Post by: Byrac on November 06, 2009, 08:57:33 pm
Post by: 100killer9 on November 06, 2009, 09:34:37 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 06, 2009, 09:35:47 pm
Oh, with that waterwheel, we will really need a version without water though. This will likely need to pretend to be a 2 z-level high building. I should be able to make that work on the code side if you can get me the base sprite.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 06, 2009, 09:44:54 pm
So when I do the dry waterwheel you want that as 6 tiles?
Post by: kaypy on November 06, 2009, 10:35:18 pm
So when I do the dry waterwheel you want that as 6 tiles?If it's not too much effort... Did you see how Solifuge broke the windmill up into x/y location chunks rather than image chunks? Thats the sort of thing we need. But if it is too much effort, then we might get better return on time for you to keep working on new images 8-)
Post by: Rorax on November 07, 2009, 12:04:04 am
Yo, I'd like to lend my pixeling skillZorz to Stonesense, I wanted to start on doing some items, because I find my stock piles look very bare :P is there a way to implement non structure items so far? Do they count as a new creature entity? I'd also like to supply a stockpile graphic and some zone graphics? do stockpiles and zones come under structures?
Lemme know I'd love to lend a hand to the project.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 12:16:55 am
Stockpiles were mentioned as yes (they're kind of a messed-up pseudobuilding) but need sprites.
Zones I'm not sure of.
edit: Long answer:
...but they may have sprites for 'piles already.One thing I've noticed, is that when I have stockpiles, they are completely unshown in Stonesense. Does stonesense not know how to deal with stockpiles? It seems like the individual objects (barrels, beds, doors) show up fine in the world, but just not in a stockpile.
Stonesense doesn't know about objects at all yet; that'll require more advancement in the dfhack library. Beds and doors are considered buildings, not objects. Barrels are objects, so do not show up. Stockpiles can be toggled (Didja read the readme file? :D ), but in the current release, they don't have any sprites configured. You'll have to fetch newer files from SVN.
Post by: kaypy on November 07, 2009, 12:28:31 am
[edit] Oh, also, while I cannot tell what an object is, I am capable of detecting the presence of an object. So we could have some generic object sprite that gets scattered all over the place.
Post by: Rorax on November 07, 2009, 12:30:26 am
And also when objects do finally become available to edit, lemme know :D
I mean I would search the thread and find out for my self, but that could take a very long time.
and in Reply to Kaypy: repository? over at the source forge?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 12:47:45 am
furthermore searching thread is as easy as that box up there, while browsing the thread :P
Not sourceforge, google code (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/) (don't ask me how to use. it should be linked in first post, but isn't) While it won't tell you what is not being worked on, there's a list somewhere in there about what's done, if I remember correctly. Look under /buildings/ for what's got sprites and what's not.
Post by: Rorax on November 07, 2009, 01:16:02 am
For example: food stockpile only gets barrels and other scattered food items.
Post by: Ezuku on November 07, 2009, 01:28:09 am
Anyway, having a generic image for stockpiles is a fantastic idea. It's relatively simple and makes sense. Just have a sack or something which is placed on each square in a stockpile with something. I guess it would look wierd with rock stockpiles, and if your stockpile has leftover rock in it though. And with bin and barrels in stockpiles. Hmm...
This has really invigorated my desire to play dwarf fortress, keep up the amazing work everyone!
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 01:35:12 am
Pity about glaciers not working properly, alas now cannot use stonesense on my fortress. People might appreciate a warning about glaciers and other such things it blanket doesn't work with.Ice and water are deep hoodoo crazy in 40d. Ice is the easiest manner in which to produce a void tile (i.e. one lacking "open space" or anything else).
Post by: kaypy on November 07, 2009, 03:14:57 am
10:1 nobody's got millstones. Remember that they transmit power in all directions.Theres a sort of millstone/quern thing, but there's always room for improvement. The buildings that are 'done and in' can be found from the googlecode (check the list of files in the buildings directory), although theres generally some pending ones you'd need to read the forum for.
Quote
it should be linked in first post, but isn'tJonask has been rather unavailable recently... Hopefully we may get some more info up there eventually.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 07, 2009, 03:45:49 am
fucking OW. :'( my manhood weeps for him.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 07, 2009, 03:59:49 am
:EDIT:
I might as well add this test I did for smooth/engraved walls and floors.
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8323/sssmoothandengravedwall.png)
I think I'm done with these for now so I'll get back to work on the waterwheel.
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6448/sssmoothedwall.png) (http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/3780/sssmoothedfloor.png)
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/2724/ssengravedwall.png) (http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/9856/ssengravedfloor.png)
Post by: Mondark on November 07, 2009, 08:57:40 am
Post by: Tofu on November 07, 2009, 09:19:36 am
(And Woah... jonas, I just read your profile and it says you're norwegian. well so am I : D)
Post by: kaypy on November 07, 2009, 11:21:45 am
Post by: Deon on November 07, 2009, 11:53:17 am
Post by: Bricks on November 07, 2009, 02:28:21 pm
Post by: Puzzlemaker on November 07, 2009, 05:38:12 pm
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 07, 2009, 05:43:09 pm
I propose that instead of a predefined tile shape, the tiles should only be characterized by their horizontal dimentions and the vertical distance between floors.
The current tiles are 32x15px, like this:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/customtilesize.png)
The blue rectangle (and the automatically calculated way the tile "rectangles" overlap) (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles2.png) is actually all that the visualizer should care about for a single layer view- and it should be customizable. This way Le Artiste will be able to choose a tile shape that he considers best (as you may know, I'm dying to try a view in which the "blue rectangle" of the tile is actually square).
Another thing is freeing up the sprite size. The bottom edge of the blue rectangle should be the bottom edge of the sprite image, but it would be great if the artist was free to do a sprite as high and wide as he wants if he needs it. Of course, for clarity he'll want to stay above these red lines (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/safetile.png) but even that should be up to him.
The tile height, from the POV of Stonesense should also only mean the vertical displacement of the next layer of floors. If a sprite would benefit from that few additional pixels in height- let the artist use them! That is of course as long as they don't stick out of the floor when viewing the level above (as it is now).
If there's one thing I'd want added to Stonesense- that's it.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 07, 2009, 05:58:50 pm
Out of curiousity, how badly would the new updates break third party software?
Well, the tile format will have some significant changes and the material system has been totally reworked to the extent that the material categories Stonesense relies on no longer exist. The building storage format may also have some changes to accomodate custom workshops. The material system is probably the largest problem, as it will require some fundamentally different approaches, not just offset-hunting.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2009, 06:00:14 pm
First: Is it possible to have stonesense display single tiles of constructed or natural wall as pillars? The game describes them as pillars, and I often use them as such in my architecture.
Second: Is there any way to make the viewing window bigger?
Post by: Rooster on November 07, 2009, 07:07:44 pm
I'll make some isometric graphics soon. I hope it will be at least decent.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 07, 2009, 07:18:21 pm
Two questions.
First: Is it possible to have stonesense display single tiles of constructed or natural wall as pillars? The game describes them as pillars, and I often use them as such in my architecture.
Second: Is there any way to make the viewing window bigger?
first, yes, i think it's possible, checking for the ocupancy state of the neighboring block, but you already have the "suport" building, with a fine sprite, no need to nag the developers
second, i think you can set that on an init.txt file, or something like that... i can't test it here, so not sure
Post by: strich on November 07, 2009, 07:29:37 pm
A little summary on custom-sized tiles (for Jonas):
I propose that instead of a predefined tile shape, the tiles should only be characterized by their horizontal dimentions and the vertical distance between floors.
The current tiles are 32x15px, like this:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/customtilesize.png)
The blue rectangle (and the automatically calculated way the tile "rectangles" overlap) (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles.png) is actually all that the visualizer should care about for a single layer view- and it should be customizable. This way Le Artiste will be able to choose a tile shape that he considers best (as you may know, I'm dying to try a view in which the "blue rectangle" of the tile is actually square).
Another thing is freeing up the sprite size. The bottom edge of the blue rectangle should be the bottom edge of the sprite image, but it would be great if the artist was free to do a sprite as high and wide as he wants if he needs it. Of course, for clarity he'll want to stay above these red lines (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/safetile.png) but even that should be up to him.
The tile height, from the POV of Stonesense should also only mean the vertical displacement of the next layer of floors. If a sprite would benefit from that few additional pixels in height- let the artist use them! That is of course as long as they don't stick out of the floor when viewing the level above (as it is now).
If there's one thing I'd want added to Stonesense- that's it.
I like your thinking Mike. It should make for a much better way to draw such things as those water mills and other over sized buildings.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 07, 2009, 07:41:56 pm
First: Is it possible to have stonesense display single tiles of constructed or natural wall as pillars? The game describes them as pillars, and I often use them as such in my architecture.
The support building would work, I suppose, but cannot be made from stone blocks IIRC which was part of the project I am working on. It's not a big deal to me either way, just a visual tweak based on the way DF displays and describes a single-tile wall ingame.
Post by: kaypy on November 07, 2009, 08:20:49 pm
I propose that instead of a predefined tile shape, the tiles should only be characterized by their horizontal dimentions and the vertical distance between floors.
Le Artiste will be able to choose a tile shape that he considers best (as you may know, I'm dying to try a view in which the "blue rectangle" of the tile is actually square).
Are you able the compile up to date versions? If you can get things to compile, there's a handful of constants that control all of that. I believe a "#define TILEHEIGHT 32" would get you that. Hmm. Maybe these should be init-able, too...
Quote
Another thing is freeing up the sprite size. The bottom edge of the blue rectangle should be the bottom edge of the sprite image, but it would be great if the artist was free to do a sprite as high and wide as he wants if he needs it. Of course, for clarity he'll want to stay above these red lines (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/safetile.png) but even that should be up to him.
The tile height, from the POV of Stonesense should also only mean the vertical displacement of the next layer of floors. If a sprite would benefit from that few additional pixels in height- let the artist use them! That is of course as long as they don't stick out of the floor when viewing the level above (as it is now).
Hmm. Currently the system draws all tiles sorted by z, then x, then y. So if you stick too far out the wrong side, you will get "floored".
It would theoretically be possible to tile in a diagonal order, but it would be a pain in the neck.
It is possible via a workaround to get additional height on building sprites (width, too, but again "floored"), and this will probably be applicable to creature sprites eventually.
However, there is another reason for a predefined tile shape: it makes em fit on the objects.png file. But that can be ignored if you make sure to leave the sprites either side blank.
Hmm. The biggest problem I can see really is that tile order thing, so if we can think of a reasonable algorithm to get the x,y,z in the right order quickly, then it may all be doable.
Incidently, floors will probably have some thickness shortly, so sticking out the top will be less likely.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 07, 2009, 08:22:58 pm
The current tiles are 32x15px, like this:You messed up there- your mockup has the top edges of tiles obscured. You don't actually want the floor tiles to overlap, that's wasting art. So you line them up, e'en if they only take 32x15 (or in my case 16x7), like they have an extra missing line on bottom/top for the edge/tips of the adjacent tiles. Plus, power-of-two math makes locations much easier to mind-calculate.
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/customtilesize.png)
The blue rectangle (and the automatically calculated way the tile "rectangles" overlap) (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles.png) is actually all that the visualizer should care about for a single layer view- and it should be customizable.
The deal is, the tiles at a corner in this orientation can't actually all touch, since screens are rectangular in pixellation- so they need to touch either horizontally (bump up height 1px) or vertically (bump width 4px). Don't need to illustrate, do I?
Also, the "any width height" is nice...until you get them next to each other/other objects, and the draw order rears its ugly head.
Quote from: Mike Mayday
If there's one thing I'd want added to Stonesense- that's it.Ladies, gentlemen, and others: The Cavalier Crusader!
Post by: kaypy on November 07, 2009, 08:30:03 pm
Two questions.
First: Is it possible to have stonesense display single tiles of constructed or natural wall as pillars? The game describes them as pillars, and I often use them as such in my architecture.
It already uses a different sprite for the pillar tiles- you'll probably notice some striping on the end tiles of constructed walls.
If you found the right tile in objects.png you could just tweak it until you are satisfied with it's pillarness.
Quote
Second: Is there any way to make the viewing window bigger?
Init file: HEIGHT and WIDTH for screen size, SEGMENTX and SEGMENTY for tile area to draw, LIFTSEGMENT to bring the area up (so you can fill the window with a big enough area). Oh, and SEGMENTZ for number of z-levels to deal with (but you also hit 1 and 2 while the program is running)
Post by: kaypy on November 07, 2009, 08:34:30 pm
The blue rectangle (and the automatically calculated way the tile "rectangles" overlap) (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles.png)Not that has been mentioned, yeah, the red box there should be one pixel lower.
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/loom.png)
Note the gaps between vertically aligned tiles in the pale pink layout template.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 07, 2009, 09:04:20 pm
Quote from: Mike MaydayIf there's one thing I'd want added to Stonesense- that's it.Ladies, gentlemen, and others: The Cavalier Crusader!
I can't say I didn't think the exact same thing, but still... be nice. It's not like it would be bad for Stonesense to have that capability, all other things being equal.
Post by: winner on November 07, 2009, 10:54:39 pm
(http://i36.tinypic.com/1zjgis.png)
(http://i33.tinypic.com/drdwmg.png)
I made them as compatible with the gear system as I had patience for.
Post by: Dante on November 07, 2009, 11:13:10 pm
Is anyone working on more/better creature sprites? The current donkey et al seem a little too, well, little. I'd have a go myself, but I don't have an artistic bone in my body.
Post by: winner on November 07, 2009, 11:24:17 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 12:50:36 am
Now now, I'm generally nice. I 'ust wanted to share my amusement with the world. I'm not trying to knock down his suggestion or insult him.Quote from: Mike MaydayIf there's one thing I'd want added to Stonesense- that's it.Ladies, gentlemen, and others: The Cavalier Crusader!
I can't say I didn't think the exact same thing, but still... be nice. It's not like it would be bad for Stonesense to have that capability, all other things being equal.
To prove this I shall determine what changes needed to implement his tileset, at the least. (True custom shapes would be much harder, custom tilesize should be easy, swapping a global variable read on start from the files for the current TILEWIDTH #define)
*ponders briefly what needs changing* Draw order, location, tilesize are really it from the back end. . . I don't like how the blocks draw themselves and determine all about it.
Quote
draws all tiles sorted by z, then x, then y.if you had stated that more clearly...ah
Quote from: worldsegment.cpp
for(int32_t vsz=viewedSegment->z; vsz < vszmax; vsz++){That would need a swapping for cavalier if Mayday's to get his wide graphics. It shouldn't otherwise matter which way, as it's symmetric in the current angle.
for(int32_t vsx=viewedSegment->x; vsx < vsxmax; vsx++){
for(int32_t vsy=viewedSegment->y; vsy < vsymax; vsy++){
Spoiler: coderant (click to show/hide)
Split TILEWIDTH to TILEWIDTH and TILEHEIGHT.well, for frontwise cavalier, also seems to be a TILEHEIGHT already..- Add CAVALIER/TILESHAPE:CAVALIER option flag somehow to init
- Add the ability to pick your spritesheet filenames(init easiest)
- Also the ability to pick the xml files indicating what's what (Want to be easy to switch, not a matter of swapping out all the config files.)
- Change the anti-Escher line bits to not trigger on Cavalier
- *optional* add top-edge anti-escher linedraw for Cavalier
- add a cavalier-style pointToScreen/surrounding code in Block.cpp
- Casual inspection doesn't suggest it's necessary, but check all those drawx/drawy to see what else may be dependant on the projection angle.
Spoiler: "relevant stuff in block.cpp" (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: "pointToScreenCavalier" (click to show/hide)
When I wrote my script to convert basically spritesheets to isometric projections (working with Sol's tileset initially) the y got turned into TILESIZE*((x+y)/4). Here it's being assigned /2. where's the other /2? ??? I can't find it, but I know it's gotta be somewhere...or things would NOT be displaying right. Dev-guys, please?
Time to go do some noncode for a while.
Post by: Dante on November 08, 2009, 01:59:22 am
(http://i37.tinypic.com/ezhp5k.png) (http://i35.tinypic.com/euiyp1.png)
Is 32 pixels the right size?
Post by: 1138 on November 08, 2009, 02:03:18 am
I've been making some sprites for myself. My creatures.png looks like this now.
(http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae118/Esme456/public/DwarfFortress/creatures.png)
Some of these still need a lot of work.
Post by: Dante on November 08, 2009, 02:15:46 am
My current fortress is full of tame alligators, which show up as beautiful flurries of purple question marks everywhere, so I added this as a better placeholder
(http://i33.tinypic.com/ibh10x.png)
Also cows
(http://i37.tinypic.com/21mc2g5.png) (http://i38.tinypic.com/23magsl.png)
Post by: kaypy on November 08, 2009, 02:39:28 am
I tried resizing the existing camels so they were at least bigger than the cat, but failed, so I did some from scratch.I've added a size template to the wiki at http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/Sprites (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/Sprites)
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2d0nabm.png) (http://i35.tinypic.com/euiyp1.png)
Is 32 pixels the right size?
(http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/wiki/img/box.png)
Post by: Innominate on November 08, 2009, 03:17:35 am
Something like:
Code: [Select]
1
2 3
4 5 6
7 8
9Assuming (4, 2, 1) is x=0, (7, 5, 3) is x=1, (4, 7, 9) is y=0, (2, 5, 8 ) is y=1, etc.
Then this is rough pseudocode for a diagonal iteration:
Code: [Select]
for(int z=0 -> zRange){
//first half - in diagram, only (1), (2,3), and (4,5,6) rows
for(int row=0 -> yRange){
for(int col=0 -> min(xRange,row)){
drawCell(col,(yRange-row)+col,z);
}
}
//second half - in diagram, only (7,8), and (9) rows
for(int row=1 -> xRange){
for(int col=0 -> min(yRange,xRange-row)){
drawCell(row+col,col,z);
}
}
}Note that <axis>Range is equivalent to the difference in indices between the bounds on that axis.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 03:24:52 am
If they do, then Painter's Algorithm only need to have each one drawn after the ones behind it, and aside from that weak ordering, anything works, which is why presently it's
Code: [Select]
1
4 2
7 5 3
8 6
9and things work.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 08, 2009, 03:33:43 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 03:38:10 am
...hmm...I think I see a problem. Do ramps render incorrectly if they're at the edge of your viewed segment, because they 'forget' about the stuff out of view?
Post by: Rooster on November 08, 2009, 08:05:27 am
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/774/kopiabeztytuu.png)
How do you like it? It's actually done for my rpgmaker project, but when I'll do more then I guess they could be usable in stonesense cause they're compatible.
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 08, 2009, 08:55:12 am
I can't say I didn't think the exact same thing, but still... be nice.Quote from: Mike MaydayIf there's one thing I'd want added to Stonesense- that's it.Ladies, gentlemen, and others: The Cavalier Crusader!
It's ok, I LedOL :P
Ah yes, of course. This is what I actually meant. (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles2.png)The blue rectangle (and the automatically calculated way the tile "rectangles" overlap) (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles.png) is actually all that the visualizer should care about for a single layer view- and it should be customizable.You messed up there- your mockup has the top edges of tiles obscured.
So Stonsense places the rectangles (32x16 in this case), and it's up to the creator to fill them with properly shaped sprites.
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/774/kopiabeztytuu.png)I like it! And guys, see how the grass crawls "out" of the tile? This is one of the reasons why I propose getting rid of the shape constraint. Nice job, Kogucie :)
Post by: kaypy on November 08, 2009, 09:16:32 am
Ah yes, of course. This is what I actually meant. (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles2.png)The blue rectangle (and the automatically calculated way the tile "rectangles" overlap) (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/overlappingtiles.png) is actually all that the visualizer should care about for a single layer view- and it should be customizable.You messed up there- your mockup has the top edges of tiles obscured.
Isn't that exactly the same as the old one?
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 08, 2009, 09:31:35 am
Isn't that exactly the same as the old one?Nope. The rectangle is 32x16 in the latter.
Post by: kaypy on November 08, 2009, 09:35:49 am
Nope. The rectangle is 32x16 in the latter.Ah, I see. The gap is included in the box
Post by: Solifuge on November 08, 2009, 11:32:20 am
I'd definitely support it, but it would require a significant ammount of artistic reinvisioning, and would interfere with how we currently draw edges to distinguish between floors on different Z levels. I'm thinking that we could create the same effect by only creating "extended dimension" tiles where we would have used black lines: we would use them for the outermost faces of any tile without adjacent tiles; IE for the topmost visible floor, and only on the outermost vertical faces. We'd include a dark outline in their tile design as well.
Basically, that would allow us to create more organic shapes (smoothed cobblestones actually potruding from the wall, etc.), while keeping illegally overlapping tiles to a minimum.
Post by: Rooster on November 08, 2009, 11:52:50 am
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/774/kopiabeztytuu.png)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/774/kopiabeztytuu.png)
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 08, 2009, 01:57:08 pm
Also: progressive fogging of lower levels. I don't know how I forgot to bring this up here. That is some very useful sh!t. Is that more or less easily programmable?
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 08, 2009, 02:04:56 pm
How my tiles work in action:
(http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/774/kopiabeztytuu.png)
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/774/kopiabeztytuu.png)
Those look great!
Post by: Rooster on November 08, 2009, 03:15:43 pm
I'll definitely be doing more.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 08, 2009, 06:13:20 pm
Personally, I think it should be under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 license, but PLEASE pipe in if you have reasons for it not to be, or something better, etc.
(noncommercial might possibly cause problems if toady decides to use the artwork later)
But this needs to be done NOW, because we already have 7 or more contributors for artwork:
Solifuge
jonask84
kaypy
7Ē Nickel
IDreamOfGiniCoefficient
Talvara
frumpton
plus more artists lined up for possible inclusion in the next release:
Rooster
winner
Dante
1138
dyze
The13thRonin
tehmarken
and more yet offering services:
Fantastic Damage
lendrick
If we wait any longer this will become a licensing hell.
LN
Post by: Grif on November 08, 2009, 06:59:02 pm
We NEED to decide very soon, sooner the better, what license to have all the stonesense artwork under.
Personally, I think it should be under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial-ShareAlike 2.0 license, but PLEASE pipe in if you have reasons for it not to be, or something better, etc.
I think that one or Attribution Share Alike is ok for Stonesense; even if Toady decides to use this in any way the Attribution Share Alike allows commercial use IF the original creators are given credit.
Post by: quinnr on November 08, 2009, 07:19:48 pm
I would be an artist, but I suck at Isometric art.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 07:44:21 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 08, 2009, 07:52:56 pm
Spoiler: My First Stonesense HFS (click to show/hide)
The core team is meeting on Tuesday to settle a few of the loose ends. I'll make sure liscensing is put on the agenda too.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 08, 2009, 08:08:48 pm
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 08, 2009, 10:41:43 pm
ElderManor
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on November 09, 2009, 08:11:15 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
the graphics mode needs to be set to 32bit for it to work.
Post by: Rooster on November 09, 2009, 09:42:20 am
Doodling around seeing how my cracked "rock" tiles overlap. Was supposed to be a rocky tile initially, but I'll scrap that and use it as a smooth wall.
Post by: DennyTom on November 09, 2009, 02:19:45 pm
Post by: Rooster on November 09, 2009, 03:57:57 pm
I'll make a new rock tile tommorow
Post by: Deon on November 10, 2009, 12:37:36 am
1) The picture is not updating unless I move the screen/change levels.
2) If I quite the program during a game (esc) and open it again, it shows a white screen and I can see what's shown only if I move the window off-screen (i.e. under a taskbar) and return it. I have to exit DF to avoid it.
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 10, 2009, 12:40:42 am
1) The picture is not updating unless I move the screen/change levels.
Press 'R' to manually refresh the screen.
Press '+' / '-' to set up automatic refresh (you have to use the ones on the numpad.
If you already knew this and it's some other problem, feel free to ignore me.
Post by: Deon on November 10, 2009, 12:53:36 am
Still, what's up with the blank screen?
P,S, Ehh, now it crashes when I try to launch it on my fortress. I've started new and it's ok, but my pyramid crashes it...
Post by: tehmarken on November 10, 2009, 09:20:55 am
Large for detail:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/dwarf_test_big.png)
And actual size:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/dwarf_test.png)
Based a lot off of Mayday's dwarves, and I used the color pallete from Soli's original dwarves. In theory, for all the different jobs you could just color swap the shirt and add a hat.
Post by: Aldaris on November 10, 2009, 09:23:32 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 10, 2009, 09:28:03 am
Post by: kaypy on November 10, 2009, 10:34:04 am
P,S, Ehh, now it crashes when I try to launch it on my fortress. I've started new and it's ok, but my pyramid crashes it...We have some crashing issues with certain wacky tile configurations (wall type -1 = dead stonesense). The next version will have more sanity checking...
If you can upload the fort somewhere, we could use it for testing...
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 10, 2009, 01:49:43 pm
Post by: Talvara on November 10, 2009, 02:18:17 pm
But till that time I wouldnt worry tomuch about the presence of the shadows :)
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 10, 2009, 02:20:52 pm
North/South
(http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/8594/sswheelnss1.png) (http://img338.imageshack.us/img338/70/sswheelnsmid1.png) (http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/7127/sswheelnsn1.png)
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2584/sswheelnss2.png) (http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6591/sswheelnsmid2.png) (http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6497/sswheelnsn2.png)
East/West
(http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3365/sswheeleww1.png) (http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7792/sswheelewmid1.png) (http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/2763/sswheelewe1.png)
(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/7518/sswheeleww2.png) (http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/4232/sswheelewmid2.png) (http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/424/sswheelewe2.png)
Post by: Rooster on November 10, 2009, 05:02:10 pm
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9973/doodel.th.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 10, 2009, 05:25:53 pm
Also, that stone tile is still kind of... noisy, as if there's too much detail being crammed in. Maybe try restricting yourself to fewer colors?
Post by: KillHour on November 10, 2009, 06:14:20 pm
New stone tile (pebbles?)
(http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9973/doodel.th.png)
There are two main problems I see with this. First, the contrast is FAR too high. Try to pick a base color and some highlights and shadows that are about 10-20% in either direction. Second, the tiling is extremely obvious. Try to make it look as natural as possible.
Post by: Deon on November 10, 2009, 06:16:22 pm
Post by: LegoLord on November 10, 2009, 06:38:20 pm
(except for the dry non functional version)When hooked up to another power source, dry water wheels will turn.
Not important now, but eventually that'd be a cool extra feature for stonesense if it's something dfhack can read.
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2009, 06:49:23 pm
There's been a truck-load of posts since I fell ill last week, and I don't think I have time to answer them all in detail, but I'll do my best to cover most of it.
- We've found a few bugs in v3, some of them crash the game. We're sorry about that, and looking into it.
- To all of you who have posted artwork, thank you! I'm adding stuff to the trunk right now, it's looking great :) We are working on setting up a sprite list wiki ,where people can assign themselves to sprites so we dont get so much overlapping work.
@KaelGotDwarves: That video is awesome, thanks for making it. It's been getting us so much press hehe fun times... Im gonna post a link on page 1.
@tehmarken, those dwarfs look really cool :) Right now Solifuge has a bit of a stylistic lock-down on the dwarf design, so we're sure we make em all look the same. I'll show it to him and make sure he hurries up and releases some more, so we can make sure we all keep to the same style.
@7Ē Nickel: You know we love your work! keep it up :)
@AlienChickenPie: thanks for uploading a save! that really helps, i'll get into it as soon as im done with this massive reply.
@Jotaf: I agree it would be nice to add direct control of DF into Stonesense. It's something we're looking at, but it's a bit complicated atm.
@Impaler[WrG]: Of course, that sounds like a good idea to team up like that. Khazad was actually my inspiration when I sat down and started on what was to become Stonesense. I think the two visualizers fill very different roles though, and Im sure you'd agree. Stonesense could never show large areas or megaprojects as well as Khazad. Stonesense is more about that up and close detail. But, yeah, I dont see any problems with sharing resources. We just need to drum up a nice license on our end, so things are nice and legal :)
@PantheraDwarfus: cool wallpapers. Strike the earth!
@Tofu: Kult :)
@Mike: You know this since I told you on IRC today, but for everyone else too: We're making a cavalier build of Stonesense.
@winner: love the pumps, especially the hand crank. Hello dwarven arthritis :p
@Rooster: That grass looks nice, maybe it's time to redo it...
@Japa: Thanks for sorting out the Aero issue.
I think that's about it :) Things have been crazy busy the last week, so it's going to be nice to be able to sit down and just code for a bit. And to all of you, thanks for all the positive and constructive feedback!
This is truly an amazing community!
- Jonas
Post by: Noble Digger on November 10, 2009, 07:06:04 pm
Anyway here's the fort!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deon on November 10, 2009, 07:14:30 pm
Also... Damn. Me well froze and when ice melter there was that sand. That's why my fortress crashes.
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2009, 07:20:00 pm
Post by: Noble Digger on November 10, 2009, 08:45:58 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 10, 2009, 08:49:40 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 10, 2009, 08:52:20 pm
I'd like to see someone's take on the actual ending demon. possibly balrog influences?
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2009, 08:56:40 pm
Edit: Thank you :) Maybe I should put Stonesense down for a short while and get some fun on.
Also, Noble Digger, thanks for uploading. I found the bug, and I've fixed it. It will be in the trunk by tomorrow if you wanna try viewing your fort again. The fort looks bloody amazing btw! Love how you built it around the original wagon heh
Post by: Innominate on November 10, 2009, 09:04:45 pm
Horrors! [REDACTED] in the [REDACTED] Part 2 : & HarderSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 09:20:13 pm
@Mike: You know this since I told you on IRC today, but for everyone else too: We're making a cavalier build of Stonesense.Uh...seriously, you should be making things easily configurable rather than "GET OTHER EXECUTABLE/PACKAGE"...:-/ I had a list of suggestions above about that...
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2009, 09:24:30 pm
Post by: Dante on November 10, 2009, 09:51:04 pm
Also,
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2009, 09:52:58 pm
Post by: tehmarken on November 10, 2009, 10:15:27 pm
I'm going to be working on hats, and I like the idea of something similar to what Ian @ threepanelsoul draws:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think having the old ASCII character integrated into the sprites of each creature would be a cool art style, so I'll be playing around with that some.
And I had another thought; what about engravings? In the game, you can get pictures of the engravings on the wall of a single thing (a dwarf face, a coin, a tree, etc). I think it would be good to make those for isometric.
And my last thought; is setting a color/grayscale a planned feature? It seems to me it might not be necessary, as a unique artwork for each terrain/rock/dirt type wouldn't take up too much data. As for constructed objects, it would just be a set of several colours, so perhaps only increasing the amount of artwork 10 fold at most. Considers how small the artwork files are now,a 10 fold increase doesn't seem like a big deal.
At the very least, I think rock/terrain/dirt should have unique artwork for each type to allow for different colouring AND appearance. This would give a much more visible difference in rock types than just colour swapping, and give a more polished look to this mod. I'm not sure what kind of work this could entail on the programming side, but it's just a matter of manhours on the artwork side, which it seems we have ample supply of.
LASTLY (I mean it this time);
@rooster: I really loved that grass you did that ran out of the "tile". Really made it look much better and more like a real terrain than a flat painted checkerboard. Doing the same thing with water would look great I bet.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 10, 2009, 10:22:43 pm
And my last thought; is setting a color/grayscale a planned feature?
Yeah, they've confirmed it two or three times.
Post by: tehmarken on November 10, 2009, 10:31:48 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 10, 2009, 10:48:35 pm
I know Cobalt, but those values enter in so many places in the code. Making them configurable runtime rather than compile time will mean a serious performance hit, that's my main concern. I might have missed that list though? I've been skimming through the 100 or so replies that came in while I was in the hospital :p I'll go over it a bit more carefully in the morning :)No, no, not runtime. Start-of-program time.
I don't think an integer lookup is going to be that much of a performance hit compared to a predefined. File lookups should not cause a performance hit, as you need to load a file anyway, so you get...a few more string reads from init, and a "file not found" error if you hadn't already got one.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 10, 2009, 11:54:47 pm
I don't think an integer lookup is going to be that much of a performance hit compared to a predefined.
Yeah, it should be inconsequential unless you're doing big chunks of arithmetic that are all constants and no function calls.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 11, 2009, 01:22:54 am
P.S.
Quote
I think having the old ASCII character integrated into the sprites of each creature would be a cool art style, so I'll be playing around with that some.
I have to say this sounds like a bad idea, the whole point is to have recognizable graphics and trying to combine a character and a sprite would result in a compromise that is poor at both, their simply aren't enough pixels to show both. Not to mention many of the characters DF assigns to things don't make much sense.
Post by: Hyptosis on November 11, 2009, 02:16:03 am
I'd be willing to do some tiles if there are still some you need. I'd need someone to give me descriptions of the needed tiles, and it'd be best if i had some of the in game tiles to match. This is of course if you even want/need the help.
Samples of my work, although they're not isometric I'm confident I can match anything. I've been working professionally and in the indie game markets for some years now. Although not at a sprite/tile artist.
http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/space_resources/Screenshot01.png (http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/space_resources/Screenshot01.png)
http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/goblin_keep05.png (http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/goblin_keep05.png)
http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/Arkanos.png (http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/Arkanos.png) << sprite is not mine, only tiles
http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/Amulet071007.jpeg (http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/Amulet071007.jpeg)
http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/M01.png (http://www.lorestrome.com/pixel_archive/M01.png)
http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/running_sprite6.gif (http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/running_sprite6.gif)
http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/kotashi04.gif (http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/kotashi04.gif)
http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/tactics_goblin05.gif (http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/tactics_goblin05.gif)
http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/ui.gif (http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/ui.gif)
http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/tactics_goblin04.gif (http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/tactics_goblin04.gif)
Hope this is enough, let me know, thanks, hope I'm not stepping on any toes or anything, I'd just really love to see this all flushed out. As an artist, even though I can enjoy DF without it, an element of art and color would really breathe life into it for me. I'll work with whatever art director you have. Thanks. ^^
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2009, 02:27:51 am
Post by: Cody1750 on November 11, 2009, 02:29:10 am
Post by: DennyTom on November 11, 2009, 02:32:10 am
Post by: A Dwarven Smokeologist on November 11, 2009, 03:45:15 am
These brownies will have to do instead.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 11, 2009, 04:02:53 am
Post by: strich on November 11, 2009, 04:04:46 am
Looks like we baged another experienced artist. The artist count is starting to get really high, It might be time to have someone act as a Task Manager for all this. Lead Artists generally set the 'tone' for a game and sign off on artwork that meets their desired standard, Solifuge should concentrate on that while someone else acting under Solifuges direction dose the more secretarial keeping of assignment lists (on the SVN would be best) and adds the work to the project by doing the xml entries and the like. That's generally the best division of managerial and creative skills for a project this size.Or, as this is a community project by and large, we wait for Jonak to finish setting up the wiki and finalising the code to allow easy addition and removal of art assets and we just let people go nuts making their own 'tile-sets'.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 11, 2009, 04:16:06 am
I'm just making a recommendation here, but it's one based on past experience in similar situations. While customization is indeed something we should want and which will make the job of the person integrating the assets much easier, it's not going to alleviate the need to organize the flood of artists that want to contribute and are now mostly just doing things at random. Once a full 'tile-set' of artwork is done then its time to start thinking about having a diversity of them.
Post by: Grif on November 11, 2009, 04:29:45 am
http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/tactics_goblin04.gif (http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/tactics_goblin04.gif)
Love those stairs and stone floor tiles.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 11, 2009, 05:37:35 am
Man, this is some nice shit. I had only done 1 piece of sprite art before this project so it will be great to have someone with more experience on board. Right now I'm still learning as I go so everything takes longer than it really should on my end.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 11, 2009, 06:34:57 am
Man, this is some nice shit. I had only done 1 piece of sprite art before this project so it will be great to have someone with more experience on board. Right now I'm still learning as I go so everything takes longer than it really should on my end.
You haven't done sprite art before? Now I'm really impressed, 7Ē Nickel. Great work.
And that looks like some great stuff from Hyptosis too, I hope you'll go ahead and pitch in. I'm really pleased to see all the love that is going into this new visualizer -- it's by far my favorite to have appeared so far. The 3D ones are great for doing justice to megaprojects, but this one really treats mundane fortresses right.
Post by: Brown Moses on November 11, 2009, 06:38:54 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 11, 2009, 08:52:26 am
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test_big.png)
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2009, 09:11:12 am
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 11, 2009, 09:29:49 am
Post by: DennyTom on November 11, 2009, 09:54:30 am
Post by: Rooster on November 11, 2009, 09:59:41 am
Next are going to be dwarf soldiers with german WWII helmets!!!
Post by: Aldaris on November 11, 2009, 10:32:35 am
Fiddled with my dwarf a bit, added a hat and made it more pallete-swap ready for indicating different jobs.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test_big.png)
It looks great, shame there wasn't enough space for the smiley, though. Still, nice.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2009, 10:33:22 am
Why do you want a smiley on it?Fiddled with my dwarf a bit, added a hat and made it more pallete-swap ready for indicating different jobs.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test_big.png)
It looks great, shame there wasn't enough space for the smiley, though. Still, nice.
Post by: Vidar on November 11, 2009, 10:40:27 am
(http://members.chello.nl/p.meijer33/Dwarf_helmet.PNG)
Now someone needs to sprite all the blood, vomit, and bits of once-living things.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 11, 2009, 10:58:25 am
Post by: AlienChickenPie on November 11, 2009, 11:22:00 am
Post by: quinnr on November 11, 2009, 11:48:25 am
Post by: Hyptosis on November 11, 2009, 11:59:37 am
And yeah, I was hoping there was a big page of tiles somewhere the just needed filling, or an art director handing out what tiles needed to be done so no one was repeating work.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 11, 2009, 01:04:26 pm
@jonask: No problem about the video, thanks for all your work and hope your feeling better. Consider 18000+ views on the video and the thread exploding a little nudge from the community-at-large wanting to see you guys succeed.
Post by: Aldaris on November 11, 2009, 02:08:38 pm
Because of the classic TPS Interpretation of dorfs.Why do you want a smiley on it?Fiddled with my dwarf a bit, added a hat and made it more pallete-swap ready for indicating different jobs.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test_big.png)
It looks great, shame there wasn't enough space for the smiley, though. Still, nice.
Post by: Deon on November 11, 2009, 02:10:59 pm
It's just my own opinion, but I hope other people think this way too :).
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2009, 04:16:51 pm
Minor rant follows:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
At any rate, just wanted to let you all know that I'm ready to start implementing the hfs stuff...
Post by: Footkerchief on November 11, 2009, 04:31:17 pm
Post by: KFD on November 11, 2009, 04:41:35 pm
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2009, 05:09:35 pm
All artists: I've started work on organizing and dividing out the needed artwork. I'm not at all sure if this is the way we should do it, but it's a starting point. This is a wish list of sorts, so feel free to grab whatever you'd like :)
You can find the list here:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/SpriteList
@Hyptosis: Im really impressed by your stuff man, seriously good work :) We would love having your help on the project, any kinds of sprites in particular you like to work on?
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 11, 2009, 05:33:47 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 11, 2009, 05:58:00 pm
Whats with the rock walls? Shouldn't those just be palette shifted?
Yeah, I think it would make sense to leave out the sprites that are planned to become obsolete.
Post by: Rooster on November 11, 2009, 06:27:40 pm
I'm pretty sure we can change tiles for evil areas, but that's a bit down the road :)
All artists: I've started work on organizing and dividing out the needed artwork. I'm not at all sure if this is the way we should do it, but it's a starting point. This is a wish list of sorts, so feel free to grab whatever you'd like :)
You can find the list here:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/SpriteList
@Hyptosis: Im really impressed by your stuff man, seriously good work :) We would love having your help on the project, any kinds of sprites in particular you like to work on?
Consider it done. For now I think I'll make a cage trap when I get back from school, but I don't think that with a one tile limitation I'll be able to make a falling one. Maybe one that is hiding in the floor???
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 11, 2009, 06:56:20 pm
Post by: tehmarken on November 11, 2009, 07:07:00 pm
And that's a decent layout for assigning artwork tasks, it's good to just set some guidelines so we're not doing repetitive work.
If you guys don't mind, I'd like to churn out the goblins and kobolds. I've made and collected quite a few designs for kobolds and goblins during the crazes when Goblin Fort and Kobold Camp were popular :)
But this does bring up a question: What style kobolds are we going with?
Kobolds have two differnet interpretations in fantasy: small, scaley, thin lizard people; or the gnoll-like hound/wolf people. I haven't found an official statement from Toady on which style they are in DF, but it seems that since we have Lizard Men in the game, but no Gnolls, that it would make sense to go with wolf people.
For reference, these are the lizard-like kobolds (from DnD):
(http://www.webusability.se/img/kobold.jpg)
And the wolf-like kobolds (from Ragnarok Online):
(http://img.ragnarokonline.com/image/Card_2005516_44n.gif)
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2009, 07:36:56 pm
I don't know if this was reported, but I remember having an obsidian fortification flooded with magma, and the magma in that tile was drawn one z-level above the floodgate. I might be able to get a picture at some point if this wasn't clear.Yeah, that one's a REAL melon scratcher... It even happens when in single layer mode. I've seen it in my own fort, and I'm gonna figure it out.
@Rooster: Yeah you gotta be clever about the traps. I think Toady once commented on it, saying something like 'they spring out'.
@tehmarken: About the Kobolds, I think whenever I've seen them in DF tilesets or DF related art they look something like these cute little guys:
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/epic/images/gobbo/koboldandthemoon-full.gif
I've heard people say it before (in this thread) that that's the kinda kobolds they wanna see :)
Post by: tehmarken on November 11, 2009, 07:46:06 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 07:52:12 pm
Kobolds have two differnet interpretations in fantasy:More than that. "Kobold" ist "goblin" auf Deutsch, ja?
Jonask: uh...you know how many types of stone there are, right? I think it'd be better to get all the basic types done before that.
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2009, 07:55:09 pm
Post by: Noble Digger on November 11, 2009, 08:05:19 pm
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9957/kobawls.png
Dog-like kobolds very similar to Ragnarok's.
Post by: Deon on November 11, 2009, 08:06:22 pm
Kobold Quest (a game by Toady) kobolds:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/25z32fk.jpg)
This is a DF tileset I've made based on that picture:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2vla16f.jpg)
Post by: Bilge on November 11, 2009, 08:06:44 pm
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2009, 08:34:52 pm
and so a rotation feature is needed.;) Guess what I've been doing the last 5 hours..
Post by: Gothvan on November 11, 2009, 08:35:06 pm
Everything seems to work but is there a real time feature, for now the only thing i can do is it R to reload the screen ?
Post by: JanusTwoface on November 11, 2009, 08:37:49 pm
Everything seems to work but is there a real time feature, for now the only thing i can do is it R to reload the screen ?Read the readme... Use + and - on the keypad to set the refresh rate. (I asked the same thing).
On that note:
Jonask84, can you think of any better way to tell people this? Perhaps a small note on the screen or a help button in the program? Because a lot of people seem to either not read readme files or skip over parts that say 'debugging' (myself included in this case).
Post by: Gothvan on November 11, 2009, 08:39:59 pm
I dont understand why the "main feature" (well for me the real time feature is the main one) would be prolly not useful for us :P
Post by: tehmarken on November 11, 2009, 08:41:36 pm
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test.png)
Personally, I think it's too tall still. I'll have to shorten him a pixel or two. The leg on the left needs work too, it turns outward too much. But, this is just a quick concept to let you guys know the diretion I'm thinking for kobolds.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 11, 2009, 08:54:17 pm
Also remember that kobolds = tunic + loincloth usually.
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2009, 09:03:39 pm
Post by: Slogo on November 11, 2009, 10:16:20 pm
Post by: Innominate on November 11, 2009, 11:29:58 pm
For spear traps, perhaps just holes in the ground would be fine. Weapon traps could have longer slices (how the hell do you fit 10 of them in one floor tile - then again, I have 10,000 stones in my mason's source tile) or something. Cage traps I kind of pictured as sunk into the floor, then the creature is dropped and the cage rises. For that matter, how do cage traps fit in a single floor tile with open space below it? Bah, confusing.
And stone-fall traps? Well, considering the "roof-optional" problem, that's going to be an interesting one. Maybe a boulder balanced on a pole? ::)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 11, 2009, 11:35:02 pm
Igneous Extrusive - Fine grained suggest you use a speckled appearance, these will all end up in shades of gray from light colored rhyolite to near black basalt.
Igneous Intrusive - Courser grained like granite but still speckled, just use larger specks.
Glassy - used for obsidian, use light and dark lines like that on a glass block but with some disorder to suggest roughness.
Carbonate - carbonate rocks (flux) are always depicted with parallel horizontal lines and semi randomly spaced vertical lines giving the appearance of a brick wall built of blocks of varying width.
Sand Stone - stippled dots would be good hear but use fewer dots and more background then Igneous Extrusive.
Slate - long thin unbroken parallel lines typically depict slate
Shale - slightly thicker slightly undulating lines that vary in thickness
Foliated - many metamorphic rocks look like this, theirs a strong waviness and thick light/dark bands
Conglomerate - heterogeneous blobs of various sizes with a little background color showing through
Fine grained sediment - used for silt and mud stone these are almost completely flat, just a few speckles and color shades in horizontal bands give them some character.
Crystalline - for rock salt and many of the cluster forming minor minerals, has a crackly appearance from angular crystals.
Post by: Afthartos on November 12, 2009, 12:19:33 am
Fiddled with my dwarf a bit, added a hat and made it more pallete-swap ready for indicating different jobs.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test_big.png)
In Soviet Russia, Dwarves don't mine stone. Stone mines Dwarves.
Comrade :P
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 12:44:19 am
So, I tweaked the kobold, and think this one is much better looking:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test-1.png)
EDIT: here's the blown up version for easy viewing:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_big.png)
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 12, 2009, 12:48:40 am
basically I just came into an incident of playing with both on, and watching a dwarf right before going berserk throwing off EVERYTHING he was wearing
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 12:54:48 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 12, 2009, 12:58:40 am
I don't think we should care TOO much about size considerations, as long as they're reasonable, thanks to the DF Tile's size*.
*whose length is recorded in the hidden treasures of Zembla
edit: (http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9105/koboldtest1.png) like that, did it myself. Makes 'em look a bit more civilized, worky...but not too much.
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 01:04:31 am
EDIT: Here's what I did, also tweaked the legs a tiny bit, and moved the nostril shadow up one pixel.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_big-2.png)
EDIT#2: Worked on a military kobold. Supposed to be a wood shield and a spear, with a leather helmet and armor, no boots.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test-3.png)
EDIT#3: So, I'm not sure if we want military to default to having a shield/buckler? Most graphic packs for the game have the unit holding just the one weapon. For the goblins and kobolds, would you guys rather see shield + weapon, or just weapon?
EDIT#4: Here's a shieldless kobold too. Got everything there for comparison, tell me what ya guys think.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test-4.png)
Post by: Innominate on November 12, 2009, 02:23:28 am
EDIT#4: Here's a shieldless kobold too. Got everything there for comparison, tell me what ya guys think.Pure awesome.
Post by: hugorune on November 12, 2009, 02:40:15 am
Is there going to be a mac version of Stonesense?
Post by: Footkerchief on November 12, 2009, 03:10:05 am
# Core90, PROPER KOBOLDS, (Future): Of course, this means different things to different people. To us, a proper kobold is neither a chihuahua man nor a mini-draconian, but instead sort of a small mammaloreptilian humanoid with pointy ears and yellow eyes with a penchant for trickery and mischief, context-based sublanguage, poisonous critter collection, traps and kleptomaniacal hoarding.
Post by: Nexii Malthus on November 12, 2009, 03:22:58 am
And just if someone wants to stay close to canon:Would be good to stay close to canon. Just far too many variables otherwise.
Kobold Quest (a game by Toady) kobolds:
(http://i44.tinypic.com/25z32fk.jpg)
This is a DF tileset I've made based on that picture:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/2vla16f.jpg)
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 03:30:37 am
I'll work on a more "canon" version later, seems like I do basically the same thing but give a pointier face/snout and outline the eyes in yellow.
But I know a lot of us have a deep fondness for cutebolds ;p
Post by: Dante on November 12, 2009, 03:32:29 am
Traps are indeed going to be tricky. Maybe the stone-fall one could be just a boulder suspended on a wooden crosspiece, with a bit of rope hanging off, like a rolling boulder from Indiana Jones or something?
Cage traps might have to be a sort of shallow dish-shaped cage suspended by poles, and the scaffold could be jointed with cogs to distinguish it from, say, a string of lobster pots.
Regarding height, I'd always pictured as goblins about the same height as dwarves, and kobolds noticeably smaller. Also, this got me thinking (and I almost certainly don't know what I'm talking about), but are dwarves short enough at the moment? If a human has to be modeled on the same tile a dwarf is, we're going to end up with the stupid stocky humans that you get in most graphics packs which are almost indistinguishable from dwarves, and similarly blocky elves.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 12, 2009, 05:19:00 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 05:33:31 am
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 12, 2009, 06:16:57 am
7 units is a full Z tile
Dwarves are 4 or 5
Goblins are same as dwarf
Kobolds are one lower than dwarf
Humans are.. 6 or 7? I dont remember.
the whole idea of scaling seems to be pretty silly to me of course, just make humans and elves taller than dwarves, and kobolds a little shorter than dwarves, all is good then.
Post by: Deon on November 12, 2009, 06:33:06 am
Post by: Rose on November 12, 2009, 07:18:52 am
1: a tile is large enough to fit 1000 dragons, provided 999 are lying down.
2: a tile is too small for two dwarves to stand in.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 12, 2009, 07:24:47 am
regarding scaling, remember what toady said about the size of a tile:
1: a tile is large enough to fit 1000 dragons, provided 999 are lying down.
2: a tile is too small for two dwarves to stand in.
Yes but those are quirks of the way the game is made, not indications of actual relative size.
Post by: 1138 on November 12, 2009, 08:23:08 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 09:12:27 am
Fiddled around with things some more, and figuring out how to get some uniform shading across colours. Top left kobold is a bit tanner/browner, and the bottom one is using a blue scale. I'm liking a more brown/tan fur colour, but it will make differentiating leather a bit harder. Perhaps I will add more red to the kobold fur colour, and leather can be a paler tan.
I would very much like objects such as leather, wood, metal, and cloth to be uniform colouring over everybodies artwork, so perhaps we can work out solid palettes over the next few days?
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 12, 2009, 10:14:27 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think next I'll revise all the linkages so they animate and maybe tweak em a bit.
Post by: Rooster on November 12, 2009, 11:21:43 am
first doodles:
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6285/urg.png)
It would work fine if I would have enough space. I guess I'll make a button in the floor and that would be the best solution with so limited space.
Any suggestions on how to fit a cage in the floor?
Post by: Hyptosis on November 12, 2009, 12:10:56 pm
Making traps is harder than I thought.
first doodles:
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/6285/urg.png)
It would work fine if I would have enough space. I guess I'll make a button in the floor and that would be the best solution with so limited space.
Any suggestions on how to fit a cage in the floor?
I would just make a faint square on the floor, and when it is activated, the square quickly rises and it has vertical bars beneath it, and a lid slams shut. If that makes sense. Isn't an easy thing to describe. XD
Post by: quinnr on November 12, 2009, 12:32:15 pm
Post by: Puzzlemaker on November 12, 2009, 12:52:57 pm
If only Toady released code for the UI, so Stonesese could be the official GUI. Think about what you could do with real code, instead of hex-editing!
Everyone should e-mail Toady and bother him about it. Hehe.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 12, 2009, 01:24:26 pm
Wow, holy crappers this is going fast.
If only Toady released code for the UI, so Stonesese could be the official GUI. Think about what you could do with real code, instead of hex-editing!
Everyone should e-mail Toady and bother him about it. Hehe.
this would probably make him quit DF, please don't do it.
DF is HIS, if you want to use a utility with DF its fine, i like stonesense a lot, and don't criticize it at all, but don't go nag him to officially support anything, that's pushing it
Post by: Puzzlemaker on November 12, 2009, 01:33:01 pm
Since making a GUI is a huge timesink, I personally really hope he opens up the GUI part of DF to the community so it can get done in a reasonable time scale.
Eh, it's just a dream of mine.
Post by: Pyrofyr on November 12, 2009, 06:39:03 pm
I eagerly await the time when DF Is user-friendly and actually has a GUI. Making the GUI community driven is the fastest way to do it.Community driven is nice, don't get me wrong. Toady is doing a lot of stuff already and DF needs it's own updates. This was coded as a third party app, if they wanted to try and get it to be first party and directly in the game, they'd ask to do so, them, the creators, not us.
Since making a GUI is a huge timesink, I personally really hope he opens up the GUI part of DF to the community so it can get done in a reasonable time scale.
Eh, it's just a dream of mine.
Speaking of which I have to ask, for everyone spriting, is there a general area you're all posting? I'd like to help, but don't want to step on any toes, and definitely don't want to end up spriting in a different style and stuff.
Post by: quinnr on November 12, 2009, 07:27:49 pm
Post by: The13thRonin on November 12, 2009, 09:10:42 pm
I eagerly await the time when DF Is user-friendly and actually has a GUI. Making the GUI community driven is the fastest way to do it.
Since making a GUI is a huge timesink, I personally really hope he opens up the GUI part of DF to the community so it can get done in a reasonable time scale.
Eh, it's just a dream of mine.
What is it with people and this graphics thing? Just let him do it in his own time.
Has Toady ever failed us before?
Toady's a decent bloke and we should respect his wishes.
Post by: tehmarken on November 12, 2009, 09:23:22 pm
And for most traps, I think something like a tripewire or visual pressure-plate/trigger stone would be good.
I don't know how possible animation is with traps.
For the cage trap, in my mind the bottom of the cage is on the ground, and when a creature steps on it the bars+top fall down and close from a hidden space in the ceiling; or something.
@quinnr: I like to imagine gremlins as very similar to fire imps, just without the fire. Brown, yellow, or green in my mind.
@Puzzlemaker: DF is more than just an amateur-made game, it's Toady's personal project. Doing the work himself is the main goal (or that's at least what I think, I've enver talked to the guy ;p). Graphics are the lowest priority, this game is more like a proof of concept for spontaneous content generation.
@ jonas: A word of advice for working on rotation :)
Check out some segway isometric->3d RPGs. Games like Breathe of Fire 3, 4, and Final Fantasy Tactics had a good system. The terrain is made of polygons, but most objects and characters were still sprites. There are good examples of how to show objects when swapping perspectives.
Post by: Noble Digger on November 12, 2009, 09:24:17 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 12, 2009, 11:58:09 pm
Quote
What is it with people and this graphics thing? Just let him do it in his own time.
Has Toady ever failed us before?
You did notice your in a thread ware people are coding their own interface for the game because the default one is useless, if that's not failure then what is?
Post by: The13thRonin on November 13, 2009, 12:18:50 am
QuoteWhat is it with people and this graphics thing? Just let him do it in his own time.
Has Toady ever failed us before?
You did notice your in a thread ware people are coding their own interface for the game because the default one is useless, if that's not failure then what is?
People have always and will always mod games. There's nothing wrong with that. That's a good thing.
However the default UI is far from 'useless' as you claim. It has served us well for years now. Let's face it... No-ones here to play Dwarf Fortress because it's the next Crysis. People come for the surprisingly developed game-world. Sure the UI needs work... So do a lot of things... If you haven't noticed Dwarf Fortress is still in alpha...
I am all for people creating a new UI through mods but I think that the kind of 'I am entitled/we are entitled to X' attitude is disgusting, in this case substituting X for a fully decked out UI at this moment in time. Toady has said he will get around to it. Dwarf Fortress is his work and his dream. I'm not going to write a full retort because I'm not trying to start an argument here but I will say:
Quote
You did notice your in a thread...
You did notice you are on a forum run by the decency and goodwill of a sole developer who has given this project his life...
My point being, do not stop creating a custom UI, it is attracting people to Dwarf Fortress and therefore helping Toady and helping us all. But I would remind everyone (as I am beginning to detect questionable comments) that Toady owes us nothing, WE owe him everything, every word we type here, every second we spend on Dwarf Fortress, that's Toady's blood, sweat and tears. He isn't charging us to use his program or the forums, both of which take money to maintain. The least you and I can do is support him, even if you don't like his decision/s he still deserves your respect.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 12:36:14 am
You did notice your in a thread ware people are coding their own interfaceStonesense(isometric visualiser) does not function as an interface to DF...
Post by: Solifuge on November 13, 2009, 12:38:41 am
You did notice your in a thread ware people are coding their own interface for the game because the default one is useless, if that's not failure then what is?
Impaler, I understand that you were trying to be funny, but I'm going to ask you to stop. Several times now, you've made bitingly sarcastic comments, and now you've quite openly insulted someone, namely Toady. Complete disrespect aside, I won't tolerate a flame-war here, so let's end the discussion about the default DF interface, and any perceived shortcomings it may have. If you'd like to continue to discuss it, feel free to start another thread on the subject.
And now for something completely different:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/Traps.png?t=1258091096)
A few models for Traps. These are Rune-labeled pressure plates, which mark armed traps, helping dwarves avoid them. It's a suitable stand-in until Multi-Component Traps replace the ones we currently have in a future DF build.
Also, the next Stonesense release will feature floors with actual thickness! Huzzah!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/NewWallsFloors.png?t=1258091129)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 13, 2009, 12:47:49 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 13, 2009, 01:06:38 am
Also, the next Stonesense release will feature floors with actual thickness! Huzzah!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/NewWallsFloors.png?t=1258091129)
Huzzah indeed. That should help a lot.
Post by: The13thRonin on November 13, 2009, 01:38:21 am
Post by: Solifuge on November 13, 2009, 01:43:13 am
If I may be so bold Solifuge I would suggest that the wood and stone supports could still use a bit of work (they strike me as looking a little thin and odd)... Not that I could do a better job... Just a thought if you wanted to have a crack at making an improvement or alternative...
That was actually the idea! Remember, supports are built not as permanent structures, but as temporary struts that can be collapsed remotely.
For rock type graphics I'd recommend they be based on the typical depictions of rocks in geology textbooks (yes I've taken some geology) as these are a made to both match the rocks real appearance and be recognizable. All of these refer to rough stone surfaces, smoothing and constructions are a separate issues. The following should provide enough variety to do all the layer stones once a colorizing system is in place.
(...)
As a complete Rock Geek, this is something I've been mulling over for a while to try and find a way to do it right. I took some of your suggested textures, as well as a set of others, and added in a few others. Each category will have a generic greyscale stone texture, which we can apply colors to in order to create all the different stone types. Eventually, I'd like to have multiple textures of each category, which will be cycled through to create more natural-looking walls.
1. Flakey Sedimentary (Shale, Mica)
2. Grainy Sedimentary (Sandstone, Siltstone)
3. Clear Crystaline (Ruby, Rock Salt)
4. Opaque Crystaline (Obsidian, Bituminous Coal)
6. Smooth Igneous (Basalt, Rhyolite)
7. Coarse Igneous (Granite, Diorite)
7. Lusterous Metamorphic (Marble, Quartzite)
8. Foliated Metamorphic (Gneiss, Phyllite)
9. Nodular (Bauxite, Conglomerate)
10. Metalic (Hematite, Tetrahedrite)
Post by: Dante on November 13, 2009, 01:51:09 am
If I may be so bold Solifuge I would suggest that the wood and stone supports could still use a bit of work (they strike me as looking a little thin and odd)... Not that I could do a better job... Just a thought if you wanted to have a crack at making an improvement or alternative...
That was actually the idea! Remember, supports are built not as permanent structures, but as temporary struts that can be collapsed remotely.
Yes, you have to remember that supports are narrow enough that you can fill all your space with them and not hinder creatures moving at all. It's a difficult balance to strike lookwise, though, between too-similar-to-walls and too-narrow.
Personally I think they'd look better cylindrical. The wooden one in particular. The stone one is actually fine, but if it was made rounder, it could be suggestive of a nice fluted Greek column.
The wooden one does look a bit box-y or even wicker-y, maybe it should look like it was made from a single log? (In which case, it would be 1/4 the volume of a single tile wall - about the same as it currently is).
Post by: Hyptosis on November 13, 2009, 01:53:36 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 13, 2009, 01:54:50 am
As a complete Rock Geek, this is something I've been mulling over for a while to try and find a way to do it right. I took some of your suggested textures, as well as a set of others, and added in a few others. Each category will have a generic greyscale stone texture, which we can apply colors to in order to create all the different stone types. Eventually, I'd like to have multiple textures of each category, which will be cycled through to create more natural-looking walls.
1. Flakey Sedimentary (Shale, Mica)
2. Grainy Sedimentary (Sandstone, Siltstone)
3. Clear Crystaline (Ruby, Rock Salt)
4. Opaque Crystaline (Obsidian, Bituminous Coal)
6. Smooth Igneous (Basalt, Rhyolite)
7. Coarse Igneous (Granite, Diorite)
7. Lusterous Metamorphic (Marble, Quartzite)
8. Foliated Metamorphic (Gneiss, Phyllite)
9. Nodular (Bauxite, Conglomerate)
10. Metalic (Hematite, Tetrahedrite)
That will be a very robust system. Awesome.
Post by: KillHour on November 13, 2009, 02:15:02 am
http://sites.google.com/site/shadow516/stonesensewin32experimentalbin.zip?attredirects=0&d=1
Post by: Dante on November 13, 2009, 02:19:39 am
...That's something I hadn't considered: gems will have to have walls of their own type, even though really in most cases it'd be more of a cluster or scattering of them through the rock. Would it be at all possible to extract the value of the nearest non-gem stone tile, and use that as the base, with scattered coloured points to represent the gems?
3. Clear Crystaline (Ruby, Rock Salt)
...
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 13, 2009, 02:35:58 am
Post by: Grif on November 13, 2009, 04:28:03 am
I'm seeing great work here on this thread but not so sure what is or isn't integrated in the v3 over at the site.
Post by: teoleo on November 13, 2009, 06:06:30 am
i have tried but i have always this message: map not loaded....
Post by: jonask84 on November 13, 2009, 08:24:15 am
I would appreciate it if yall put a sock in it concerning the whole "Today should do this and that" debate. At lease move it to another thread, okay? It's filling up this thread with fruitless speculation and bickering, and nothing new is coming from it.
We have had a meeting regarding this internally, with the most central Stonesense devs, and we all agree on Stonesense's official stand on the matter. I will post said stand in the OP. Until then the short and sweet of it: We're not asking Toady to do _anything_. DF is his creation, Stonesense is ours, we respect that. As a game developer myself, I perfectly understand his skepticism to getting tied down to a UI.
Hope that is the last we hear of the matter, right? ;)
And to everyone else, we got some really neat features going, so next release is gonna be fun :)
Cheers!
Post by: tehmarken on November 13, 2009, 09:39:50 am
EDIT: I did some thinking and more fiddling, and looking over my kobolds I tihnk they were too big compared to dwarves. I also gave the dwarf a more peasant-like cap.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller.png)
vs the old:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test-4.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller_zoom.png)
vs the old:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_big-2.png)
Was just a quick edit, it looks out of proportion with itself (tunic looks like a weird potbelly thing going on); so this is just to show the height change and general thinning.
EDIT #2: I think this will do: (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller-1.png)
Post by: LordZorintrhox on November 13, 2009, 10:37:38 am
Argh! too much school work, otherwise I'd isometrify my dwarf graphics set for this.
As a complete Rock Geek, this is something I've been mulling over for a while to try and find a way to do it right. I took some of your suggested textures, as well as a set of others, and added in a few others. Each category will have a generic greyscale stone texture, which we can apply colors to in order to create all the different stone types. Eventually, I'd like to have multiple textures of each category, which will be cycled through to create more natural-looking walls.
1. Flakey Sedimentary (Shale, Mica)
2. Grainy Sedimentary (Sandstone, Siltstone)
3. Clear Crystaline (Ruby, Rock Salt)
4. Opaque Crystaline (Obsidian, Bituminous Coal)
6. Smooth Igneous (Basalt, Rhyolite)
7. Coarse Igneous (Granite, Diorite)
7. Lusterous Metamorphic (Marble, Quartzite)
8. Foliated Metamorphic (Gneiss, Phyllite)
9. Nodular (Bauxite, Conglomerate)
10. Metalic (Hematite, Tetrahedrite)
I will comment that this is almost exactly the list Dwarfletter ended up with for its stone/soil tiles, though some are double duty. The nodular tile in particular ALWAYS makes good ore walls, for any ores that are or appear to be native metal, like gold, copper, and hematite. Most of the other metal ores are colorful oxides and crystals. It works very well at giving a colorful and detailed visual experience.
Saturday I MIGHT have some time to take a crack at some of these, if no one minds.
Post by: jonask84 on November 13, 2009, 11:27:23 am
Would it be possible to update the googlecode homepage for the project to indicate what the currently available version for download has, in terms of tiles?
I'm seeing great work here on this thread but not so sure what is or isn't integrated in the v3 over at the site.
We're in the process of trying to find a better spot for the wiki, once we get that going I think we should do something like what you're suggesting.
Post by: BasiC on November 13, 2009, 11:36:26 am
Is there a chance it will be possible to actually play with this and not just be able to view your fortress?
If so any estimation on when it will be possible?
Post by: jonask84 on November 13, 2009, 11:38:45 am
Hi,I am new.
Is there a chance it will be possible to actually play with this and not just be able to view your fortress with?
Hey man, welcome to the forums :)
There is little chance of that. However, some input is not unthinkable.
Post by: dyze on November 13, 2009, 01:25:55 pm
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller_zoom.png)
vs the old:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_big-2.png)
can you make the kobold look just a little bit mean? right now his face looks so cute and innocent i could never see myself killing one of those :D
maybe a sharp tooth in the corner of his mouth ..or an angry brow perhaps.
Post by: Nadaka on November 13, 2009, 01:39:33 pm
Post by: Bricks on November 13, 2009, 01:51:36 pm
Post by: pokute on November 13, 2009, 02:02:48 pm
@Soli: For the wood support, maybe do a frame design, like scaffolding? I envision wooden supports as a wire-frame kind of thing, where dwarves can walk through them. I like the pillar for the stone version though, and kudos on adding depth to the floors :)
EDIT: I did some thinking and more fiddling, and looking over my kobolds I tihnk they were too big compared to dwarves. I also gave the dwarf a more peasant-like cap.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller.png)
vs the old:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test-4.png)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller_zoom.png)
vs the old:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_big-2.png)
Was just a quick edit, it looks out of proportion with itself (tunic looks like a weird potbelly thing going on); so this is just to show the height change and general thinning.
EDIT #2: I think this will do: (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller-1.png)
omg i love the cutebolds
but now i can't kill them without feeling bad :(
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 02:18:53 pm
As for the Kobolds, Their faces are a bit square, but I can't think of many ways to give them a rounder snout. I support the Kobold Change, except weren't they supposed to have grey fur? They are generally drawn like Donkey Men.
Post by: Slogo on November 13, 2009, 02:20:54 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 13, 2009, 02:31:08 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 02:35:25 pm
I don't mind them, even though they are exactly how I would picture Donkey men to look as well.
Post by: Neruz on November 13, 2009, 03:40:02 pm
So all we really know is that they are small, they're humanoid and they have mammal and reptillian features.
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 03:40:46 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 13, 2009, 03:49:56 pm
Here's a 256-color indexed PNG that contains the entire Palette I've been using. In the event that you need to use a different color, there are still 123 indexes that are unused.
The cubes are each the size of a standard tile, and the shaded boxes on each face represent the range of colors I used on each face, in order to give it a consistent brightness value. I stuck with using those 3 colors on each face.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 13, 2009, 03:53:22 pm
The "Cutebolds" are in an odd situation. Even though they are purely a fan creation they are starting to be considered official by quite a few people.
I don't mind them, even though they are exactly how I would picture Donkey men to look as well.
They've about reached fanon status, yeah. I don't really mind either. Though you could definitely work yellow eyes into a cutebold... maybe with creepy rectangular pupils, like in a goat's eye. (http://i34.tinypic.com/21ondl.jpg)
Post by: Bricks on November 13, 2009, 04:25:35 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 04:57:57 pm
Shit, goats were the robots all along? Never would have guessed.
Actually that is something... "Cutebolds" are more then Donkey Men they are like a mix between Donkey and Goat/sheep men
Post by: Solifuge on November 13, 2009, 05:24:06 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold2x.png?t=1258150809)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold.png?t=1258150846)
My inspiration (http://ninjahijinx.com/wp-gallery/illustration/bluedragon_01.jpg)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 13, 2009, 05:27:52 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 05:36:09 pm
Kinda makes me wish these Kobolds had castes so all three versions were acceptable.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 13, 2009, 05:51:25 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 06:15:35 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 13, 2009, 06:58:44 pm
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/5843/dwarfindustry.gif)
While I was setting up this test it occured to me, with the thick floors addition I'll have to tweak the gear assembly and vertical axle. The floors are going to be 4 pixels high if I recall the IRC meeting correctly, so I should just have to add 4 pixels to the upper shaft and they should link correctly right?
Post by: Eso_Teric on November 13, 2009, 07:18:50 pm
Great work on all this.
Also wanted to chime in with, that I like grey cutebolds. The original ones. Perhaps yellow eyes are in order? Maybe that looks bad.
I'm all for everything being as DF Raw as possible, really, though.
Edit: Also, the new cap on the dwarves is fine, but needs to ditch the black outline. I liked the original cap better. It does give of a russian vibe.
Post by: Solifuge on November 13, 2009, 07:39:19 pm
While I was setting up this test it occured to me, with the thick floors addition I'll have to tweak the gears assembly and vertical axle. The floors are going to be 4 picels high if I recall the IRC meeting correctly so I should just have to add 4 pixels to the upper shaft and they should link correctly right?
I am digging the animated mechanical components! Also yes, we're adding 4 vertical pixels to each sprite. We may implement Mike Mayday's Oversized Sprite method too, and increase sprite size to 64x64, but mapping them based on the central 32x32 area.
Also, Kobold Redux:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold-1.png?t=1258159085) (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold2x-1.png?t=1258159085)
In folklore, I've always seen Kobolds as little lizard-dogs with the proportions of toddlers. The sort of critter that you might mistake for a child in a dimly lit room.
Post by: ClavusElite on November 13, 2009, 07:43:28 pm
One issue though:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 08:19:53 pm
The Red Circle could have been what you included as "Fine"
Why are the dogs soo huge? What in the world is that small creature?
Why is that Dwarf's head penetrating the sides of the wagon?
I am guessing a lot of the later improvements for this mod is actually the appearance.
Post by: Solifuge on November 13, 2009, 08:27:38 pm
That, and all critters have to fit in a 32x32 box, since a single tile has quantum length, width, and height. :P
EDIT: The better part of the graphics are temporary stand-ins (The wagon, the donkey, the dwarf, etc.). There are literally thousands of sprites needed by this project, and only a handful of artists.
Post by: ClavusElite on November 13, 2009, 08:28:04 pm
Post by: Christes on November 13, 2009, 08:35:02 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 13, 2009, 08:50:55 pm
I'd dip my hand in artist but I have no idea what needs to be done and I have very limited ability.
Post by: Dante on November 13, 2009, 09:15:55 pm
@ClavusElite, that's a single tile of rock wall in the corner, though, right? So the weird appearance is just from mix-and-matching your components, rather than a bug?
Post by: ClavusElite on November 13, 2009, 09:31:12 pm
Post by: glueheaded on November 13, 2009, 09:36:31 pm
The color and cheeriness of these graphics is certainly an interesting new way to look at the game.
Post by: Grif on November 13, 2009, 09:49:19 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 09:50:11 pm
... maybe with creepy rectangular pupils, like in a goat's eye. (http://i34.tinypic.com/21ondl.jpg)I thought it was hourglass or kidney-shaped.
A possible compromise between Cutebolds and Scarybolds?Those're some cute/radical kobolds. The newer ones look closer to the minigoblins though.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold2x.png?t=1258150809)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold.png?t=1258150846)
My inspiration (http://ninjahijinx.com/wp-gallery/illustration/bluedragon_01.jpg)
Post by: pubby on November 13, 2009, 10:42:35 pm
Really looks good!
I made a new statue -- didn't really like how it looked in my outdoor statue garden (no offense). Is it possible to have different statues depending on if they're above ground or below ground? It would be great to have gardeny statues for indoors and more sculture-like ones for the inside. (and besides, mine graphic's a bit too tall for the ceilings :S)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/pubby8/statues.png)
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b397/pubby8/garden.jpg)
Also, would it be possible to make doors have their material under them? It looks bad when they'res mud under my doors.
I know it might be somewhat stupid to say, but I can make some more simple graphics if you guys need anything. Dunno about people though.
Post by: Hyptosis on November 13, 2009, 10:47:07 pm
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/eat_me_alive.png)
Post by: Rooster on November 13, 2009, 10:54:42 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 13, 2009, 10:56:34 pm
I made this just for giggles, not to actually be used. Iso art is mindblowingly hard for me, but I'm just not used to it. Also I know if I was doing this for anything more than fun, some serious color adjusting would need to be done to keep the dwarf from mixing into the background. But I wanted to share regardless.oldgamefiles?
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/eat_me_alive.png)
anyway, looks like a nice miner. Dunno if he'll blend so badly on Stonesense's tiles.
Post by: Hyptosis on November 13, 2009, 10:59:49 pm
I made this just for giggles, not to actually be used. Iso art is mindblowingly hard for me, but I'm just not used to it. Also I know if I was doing this for anything more than fun, some serious color adjusting would need to be done to keep the dwarf from mixing into the background. But I wanted to share regardless.oldgamefiles?
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/eat_me_alive.png)
anyway, looks like a nice miner. Dunno if he'll blend so badly on Stonesense's tiles.
Ahh, oldgamefiles kinda became my sprite/tile directory, I'd rename it but there are literally hundreds of links to it all over the net, I'd hate to make them 404.
Post by: Innominate on November 13, 2009, 11:08:16 pm
I think these new kobolds are awesome. They look like they fit Toady's vision, though may I suggest that they have their hands poised in a kleptomaniac about-to-steal-narrow-goblin-clothing-from-outside-your-fort pose?While I was setting up this test it occured to me, with the thick floors addition I'll have to tweak the gears assembly and vertical axle. The floors are going to be 4 picels high if I recall the IRC meeting correctly so I should just have to add 4 pixels to the upper shaft and they should link correctly right?
I am digging the animated mechanical components! Also yes, we're adding 4 vertical pixels to each sprite. We may implement Mike Mayday's Oversized Sprite method too, and increase sprite size to 64x64, but mapping them based on the central 32x32 area.
Also, Kobold Redux:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold-1.png?t=1258159085) (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/dwarf_test.png)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSKobold2x-1.png?t=1258159085)
In folklore, I've always seen Kobolds as little lizard-dogs with the proportions of toddlers. The sort of critter that you might mistake for a child in a dimly lit room.
Post by: Solifuge on November 14, 2009, 02:06:54 am
I made this just for giggles, not to actually be used. Iso art is mindblowingly hard for me, but I'm just not used to it. Also I know if I was doing this for anything more than fun, some serious color adjusting would need to be done to keep the dwarf from mixing into the background. But I wanted to share regardless.
This is my first Isometric project, and I'm still getting the hang of doing sprites in this perspective. One thing that helped me with tiles was starting with simple 2-color textures (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/DFIsometricTiles-1.png?t=1258181060), and learning how to make patterns that tile well. Once I got the hang of the basics, I redid most of the tiles in higher color (with a less eye-burning palette).
Anyway, I really do like your tiles! The style reminds me of Bahamut Lagoon, or Rudora no Hiho, both of which had some excellent pixel art. I wish you'd be more confident about your spritework, because you're making me look bad by comparison!
Okay, shrunk the dog and cat and added child versions, did finishing touches on the base Kobold and gave him a more sneaky pose, threw together models for Human Males and Females (I skinned the male one as a Swordmaster to provide an example), made the imp a bit more creepy, and added an homage to the ASCII graphics. See if you can spot it.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSSprites.png?t=1258182163)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSSprites2x.png?t=1258182275)
Post by: Neonivek on November 14, 2009, 02:34:13 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 14, 2009, 03:00:01 am
Is there a list somewhere of all the sprites that have yet to be finished?
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/SpriteList
Post by: Hyptosis on November 14, 2009, 03:00:24 am
That baby cat, you really did a great job on it!
Also, I agree, we need a list. I don't know where to start. However with 1000+ items needed I don't envy the list maker either.
Post by: Hyptosis on November 14, 2009, 03:43:42 am
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue2.png) statue
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/matel_table.png) metal table
Trying to match the current style.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 14, 2009, 03:48:11 am
Post by: Solifuge on November 14, 2009, 03:58:06 am
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSHPriestess.png?t=1258189064)(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSHPriestess2x.png?t=1258189035)
Going with a Greek/Roman flavor on these sprites. If anyone has suggestions for another historical culture with iconic dress styles, I'd love to hear some suggestions. I'm kinda tired of all the Eurocentricism in Fantasy art and literature... I was tempted to make all the humans dark-skinned and dress them in the manner of the Egyptians, but figured I'd get complaints... not to mention it doesn't really match with the raws as they are now.
Hyptosis, I love these! Love the corroded table too; that's a great little detail, and adds visual interest to the sprite. The statues might look nice with a thicker base, but it's a pretty negligible detail, especially since they look damned good!
@Impaler: The crosshatching in the middle is a mesh/grate, with a beveled edge.
Post by: Dante on November 14, 2009, 04:52:26 am
The ascii homage is the face of the fire imp, right? If not, then its a little too simplistic.
Also, Hyptosis, those two statues are truly superb. I'm having a hard time picking which one I'd want in my sprite sheet, though I'm tending towards liking the dwarven stoutness of the first one.
Post by: Grif on November 14, 2009, 04:53:41 am
Quote
Going with a Greek/Roman flavor on these sprites. If anyone has suggestions for another historical culture with iconic dress styles, I'd love to hear some suggestions. I'm kinda tired of all the Eurocentricism in Fantasy art and literature...
Well, as long as there is cohesiveness in a tileset then you can go in any direction you want, in my opinion; for example, I haven't seen any depiction of elves yet but instead of the ye old "Tolkien"-style elves you could go towards a more Warhammer inspired look, or even your own style; seeing as the elves in DF are xenophobic tree huggers you could go with a militaristic approach to it, even tribalistic (ever read Terry Pratchett? the elves in his book are utter pricks who hunt and kill humans for fun). For example, say you give them Native American style clothing, hairstyle, weapon look and even the design of their elven retreats could be similar to a indian village, etc.
Post by: Deon on November 14, 2009, 08:29:09 am
Quote
seeing as the elves in DF are xenophobic tree hugging cannibalsThis would be more accurate. I'd vote for more feral look on elves, looking how they oppose to build any structures and to use any advanced tools and metals and use zerging hordes to attack other settlements.
After I watched a trailer for an upcoming "Avatar" movie, I think those creatures would describe DF elves nicely (apart from tails and big size). They live in a peace with nature, use bows, fight against "technology" which tries to conquer their natural habitat and have quite a feral look (god damn that chick is hot).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_JBMrrYw8
Post by: Talvara on November 14, 2009, 09:00:24 am
Human High Priestess,
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSHPriestess.png?t=1258189064)(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSHPriestess2x.png?t=1258189035)
Going with a Greek/Roman flavor on these sprites. If anyone has suggestions for another historical culture with iconic dress styles, I'd love to hear some suggestions. I'm kinda tired of all the Eurocentricism in Fantasy art and literature... I was tempted to make all the humans dark-skinned and dress them in the manner of the Egyptians, but figured I'd get complaints... not to mention it doesn't really match with the raws as they are now.
Hyptosis, I love these! Love the corroded table too; that's a great little detail, and adds visual interest to the sprite. The statues might look nice with a thicker base, but it's a pretty negligible detail, especially since they look damned good!
@Impaler: The crosshatching in the middle is a mesh/grate, with a beveled edge.
Oeeeh, does this mean that Stonesense will be able to differentiate between male/female and jobs?
Post by: jonask84 on November 14, 2009, 09:15:47 am
I don't post here a lot but this is truly a great program, works well and I am loving it so far.
One issue though:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yup, that's a known issue with a3. It's been fixed for future releases :)
@pubby: Thanks for the cool statues :) A bit of abstract art there. As for the dirt floors under your doors: they're there because that's how it actually is in-game. you put the door up before you paved the room I would guess. Take the door down, pave the tile, and build the door again.
@Hyptosis: That style looks awesome, I especially like the water. you and Solifuge should sit down one day and work out a common theme, so we dont have overlapping work :D
Quote
Oeeeh, does this mean that Stonesense will be able to differentiate between male/female and jobs?hehe
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hyptosis on November 14, 2009, 09:24:32 am
Also I'm just drawing what is blank on the tileset page for now, unless someone has something the specifically needs attention.
Post by: jonask84 on November 14, 2009, 10:03:21 am
Post by: dyze on November 14, 2009, 10:21:26 am
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue.png) statue
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue2.png) statue
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/matel_table.png) metal table
Trying to match the current style.
well then i dont have to worry about finishing my attempt at a statue, these look great!
i'd def go with these, i do agree with impaler tho, the bases looks kinda flat and could use atleast one pixel in 'height'.
concerning the spritelist, i think it would be a good idea to include the finished sprites (with images) in the list. it'd help as a reference for everyone to aid keeping everything in a coherent style.
Post by: tomblifter on November 14, 2009, 12:05:31 pm
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 14, 2009, 12:34:52 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 14, 2009, 12:39:15 pm
Going with a Greek/Roman flavor on these sprites. If anyone has suggestions for another historical culture with iconic dress styles, I'd love to hear some suggestions. I'm kinda tired of all the Eurocentricism in Fantasy art and literature... I was tempted to make all the humans dark-skinned and dress them in the manner of the Egyptians, but figured I'd get complaints... not to mention it doesn't really match with the raws as they are now.
I drew up some sketches for the humans before you posted this. If you don't mind me stepping on your toes a bit, I'd still like to try making them.
PS Death to honky fantasy.
Post by: timmeh on November 14, 2009, 12:40:45 pm
If somebody could tell me what is needed, I could try and pixel something.
The link is on the page before this one...
Love those statues Hyptosis!
Post by: Neonivek on November 14, 2009, 12:42:06 pm
Very unfortunate for me that almost none of these are things I can do.
Post by: fifth angel on November 14, 2009, 12:46:20 pm
this is a small preview of what i'm currently doing:
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf.gif)
Need to add some life to it though.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 14, 2009, 12:50:00 pm
Oh hi. I was so exited about this whole dorf-goes-isometric thing that I decided to do some art too (:
this is a small preview of what i'm currently doing:
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf.gif)
Need to add some life to it though.
Actually I kind of like that style.
Post by: Errol on November 14, 2009, 01:11:03 pm
Please also note that I had no idea what I was doing. It probably should be larger. Not to mention my understanding of a quern might be off.
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4624/quern.png)
Post by: pubby on November 14, 2009, 01:37:03 pm
Fortifications. Looks better when stacked.
Post by: Errol on November 14, 2009, 01:57:20 pm
It would be cool to have a 'nothing above' fortification and a 'something above' fortification, as you really would use different stuff for that...
Post by: pubby on November 14, 2009, 02:37:41 pm
I think lots of tiles would benefit from having a "nothing under" graphic.
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 14, 2009, 02:46:06 pm
Edit:
Actually, why not just do a slab with a little short beam in the middle? Like a half wall having a little beam for when they are stacked. I dunno, it might still look funny.
Post by: Bricks on November 14, 2009, 02:51:43 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 14, 2009, 03:18:14 pm
(http://i36.tinypic.com/vraweg.png)Fortifications. Looks better when stacked.
We've already got the Parapet-style fortifications, so Slit-style ones like these are the sort we needed! Wooden ones might be a bit more tough to plan out, especially with both Raw Wood (Pallisades), as opposed to Wood Blocks (Boards).
Touched up the tile a bit. Here's a mockup showing the two current Fortifications in Stone.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSIn-wallFortStone.png?t=1258229859)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSFortificationMockup.png?t=1258229751)
Post by: fifth angel on November 14, 2009, 03:33:18 pm
Touched up the tile a bit. Here's a mockup showing the two current Fortifications in Stone.
looks really nice. What does the above "domes" represent? Is it a modification of column?
Post by: Footkerchief on November 14, 2009, 03:37:26 pm
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 14, 2009, 05:00:57 pm
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr231782_stonesensebirch.png)
I changed the palette of the autumn version, because I though It'd great to have autumn trees in different colours. I think the default autumn tree's borders could use some darkening, though.
At first I tried to use the default trunk, but it was too large for a birch and I had to scale it down.
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 14, 2009, 06:26:45 pm
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr231823_stonesensewillow.png)
My girlfriend works with trees and forced me to change the green palette on this one.
EDIT: I'm having trouble getting the colors right. Does anyone know of a good guide to leaf colors?
Post by: nmceri on November 14, 2009, 06:48:35 pm
(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin_big.png)
If goblins are already done, maybe he could fill another role with a slight modification.
Post by: fifth angel on November 14, 2009, 06:48:57 pm
I'm having trouble getting the colors right. Does anyone know of a good guide to leaf colors?
mmm... I've seen a tree with colors like this (: good for the first time, but you need to work on the form though, better form will make any colors look better.
I focused on the textures on my side, I think I'll need about 12-15 different patterns to be able to build the entire number of surfaces.
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf2.gif)
Post by: Neonivek on November 14, 2009, 06:49:48 pm
Goblin!
(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin_big.png)
If goblins are already done, maybe he could fill another role with a slight modification.
That sort of looks like some sort of weird zombie
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 14, 2009, 06:52:54 pm
Post by: arkraven on November 14, 2009, 08:37:11 pm
Goblin!
(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin.png)(http://www.cybercom.net/~erin/pixel/goblin_big.png)
If goblins are already done, maybe he could fill another role with a slight modification.
I would change the golbins loin cloth to a browner colour, it looks wierd otherwise to me :-\
Post by: winner on November 14, 2009, 08:47:21 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 14, 2009, 08:58:45 pm
Doublepost with another one. This is a preliminary version, I'm not so sure about this one. If you can't recognise what it is, I've done something wrong.
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr231823_stonesensewillow.png)
My girlfriend works with trees and forced me to change the green palette on this one.
EDIT: I'm having trouble getting the colors right. Does anyone know of a good guide to leaf colors?
I've never done pixel art before this point but from what i know and what you will see in others works is that pixel art is vibrant and exaggerated in colour.
A basic rule with colour is cool dark colours push things back and warm bright colours pull things forward. With pixel art you have to apply this double fold to give shape to such tiny objects. Another tip i can give is that pixel art is often a representation of an object or character and correct proportions, shape and colour are pushed aside for an easier understanding of what your spite may be.
I did a willow tree myself to give you an idea of how warm and cool colours can convey shape easily. my sprite could still use some work but its good enough for now.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2v94wnq.jpg)
Post by: Hyptosis on November 14, 2009, 09:05:01 pm
Post by: Hyptosis on November 14, 2009, 09:17:45 pm
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue.png)
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue2.png)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 14, 2009, 09:24:36 pm
Okay, shrunk the dog and cat and added child versions, did finishing touches on the base Kobold and gave him a more sneaky pose,Leave that for the Kobold Thief. They have a profession, y'know :P
homage to ascii graphics... /=weapon? Oh, yeah, gotta be the imp face.
Post by: pubby on November 14, 2009, 10:46:32 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 14, 2009, 11:10:56 pm
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2919/basichumans.png)
I wanted to cover all the basics of fortress mode. Not entirely happy with the pose on the liason. I was trying to go for a haggling pose but I'm not sure it looks right.
Post by: Hyptosis on November 14, 2009, 11:54:28 pm
Post by: Puzzlemaker on November 14, 2009, 11:56:53 pm
I took a whack at the human designs I had sketched up. No matter how tall and gaunt your sketches may be, it kind of goes out the window when you have to translate it to 30 odd pixels high. Here's my first pass on the trader, guard, liason, and diplomat.
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2919/basichumans.png)
I wanted to cover all the basics of fortress mode. Not entirely happy with the pose on the liason. I was trying to go for a haggling pose but I'm not sure it looks right.
Actually, I really like that depiction of humans.
For the liason, both his arms should be facing the same way, if that makes any sense. That, or put something in one of his hands, like a scroll or something else official looking.
Post by: Christes on November 15, 2009, 12:02:53 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 15, 2009, 12:08:44 am
I ended up doing a quern. Nothing world-shattering, but the creation was fun as well. I went for a sort of primitive look.
Please also note that I had no idea what I was doing. It probably should be larger. Not to mention my understanding of a quern might be off.
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4624/quern.png)
Considering what they look like in reality, yours is fine. They aren't fancy. And the size is about right I think.
Post by: tehmarken on November 15, 2009, 02:30:26 am
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller-2.png)
Normal Kobold
Spear
Sword/Knife
Axe
Bow
Bow was hard to show, so I put a feather in his hat to help tell him apart. Went with the blue/gray skin tone, and gave them an orangey/leather outfit.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 15, 2009, 03:10:28 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 15, 2009, 03:13:36 am
I took a whack at the human designs I had sketched up. No matter how tall and gaunt your sketches may be, it kind of goes out the window when you have to translate it to 30 odd pixels high. Here's my first pass on the trader, guard, liason, and diplomat.
(http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/2919/basichumans.png)
I wanted to cover all the basics of fortress mode. Not entirely happy with the pose on the liason. I was trying to go for a haggling pose but I'm not sure it looks right.
Those are excellent.
I think thief is the only kind of kobold you'll ever see at your fort and I've only ever seen them carry knives.
Nah, kobold ambushes can show up too, and they have swords and bows at least. Let's see, entity raws... short sword, bow, spear, dagger.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 15, 2009, 03:17:16 am
Post by: Seuss on November 15, 2009, 04:13:53 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: tehmarken on November 15, 2009, 04:22:08 am
I think thief is the only kind of kobold you'll ever see at your fort and I've only ever seen them carry knives.
Hmm, yeah. I'm working on a kobold thief with a bag and dagger.
Here's my first pass at a gobling:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/goblin_test.png)
I'm not too thrilled with it. Since goblins tend to have fortresses and organized militaries, I think I want them to be more humanoid, and less feral/imp like.
Post by: DennyTom on November 15, 2009, 04:28:26 am
Oh hi. I was so exited about this whole dorf-goes-isometric thing that I decided to do some art too (:
this is a small preview of what i'm currently doing:
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf.gif)
Need to add some life to it though.
Actually I kind of like that style.
Really nice. Only the grass would look better in 3D.
I love those trees and dark skin humans, really great work.
Post by: Errol on November 15, 2009, 05:15:43 am
(http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2080/quernb.png)
Post by: Seuss on November 15, 2009, 08:57:28 am
From left to right: Empty farm plot, Cave wheat, Pig tail, Plump helmet, Quarry bush, Sweet pod and a Dimple cup.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2noyv9.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2dwg4rb.jpg)
All critique encouraged. ;D
Post by: tefalo on November 15, 2009, 09:10:43 am
Post by: fifth angel on November 15, 2009, 10:43:43 am
Decided to make a move on the crops. These are all the subterranean crops.
From left to right: Empty farm plot, Cave wheat, Pig tail, Plump helmet, Quarry bush, Sweet pod and a Dimple cup.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2noyv9.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2dwg4rb.jpg)
All critique encouraged. ;D
Awesome. I think pig tails needs to be not so... contrast.
Plump helmet is too triangle-like and quarry bush isn't bush-like (:
Post by: Deon on November 15, 2009, 10:49:34 am
Post by: dyze on November 15, 2009, 12:02:24 pm
worked on them a little more
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue.png)
(http://www.lorestrome.com/trash/oldgamefiles/DF/rock_statue2.png)
yeah thats it!
Post by: Shoehead on November 15, 2009, 12:14:24 pm
Decided to make a move on the crops. These are all the subterranean crops.
From left to right: Empty farm plot, Cave wheat, Pig tail, Plump helmet, Quarry bush, Sweet pod and a Dimple cup.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2noyv9.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2dwg4rb.jpg)
All critique encouraged. ;D
These are really cool, but you should probably change the shade of purple on the plump helmet, it's blending in with the colour of the ground behind it. :P
Post by: pubby on November 15, 2009, 12:15:14 pm
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 15, 2009, 12:37:39 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 15, 2009, 12:52:00 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Somebody ninja'd me about the beds poking through - 40 pages ago.
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 01:10:42 pm
Post by: Aldaris on November 15, 2009, 01:27:30 pm
This system supports animated sprites right?Yeah, 6 frame animations, I think.
Also, what is the ETA for alpha 4?
Post by: NewoTigra on November 15, 2009, 01:52:34 pm
Also, it reminds me somewhat of GameBoyAdvance games style graphics. Like Pokemon or Bomberman Advance.
Both of which were / are awesome and nostalgia inducing.
Post by: pubby on November 15, 2009, 01:58:08 pm
Lego mod!
I can release it if anyone wants it (gotta finish some blocks)
Post by: fifth angel on November 15, 2009, 02:15:35 pm
(http://i38.tinypic.com/2ji48.png)
Lego mod!
I can release it if anyone wants it (gotta finish some blocks)
ahahaha... YES!
Post by: winner on November 15, 2009, 02:21:15 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 15, 2009, 02:31:16 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 15, 2009, 02:39:47 pm
@Jarathor: Those dwarves are great! I like using subtle color and tool differences to differentiate their job a bit better than distinctive hats. Care to take a stab at female dwarves? Tolkein aside, I'd prefer them beardless; Toady made them beardless with the cosmetic layer update anyway.
@Seuss: Fantastic work on the crops; very shiny! Judging by the name, the Pig Tail has a thick curled stalk, but before I knew what it was, it looked like there were three red leaves hanging off it instead. You might try making the stalk a bit thinner, and letting a bit of the far side of the curled stalk show through, probably in the middle to avoid confusion. Also, as Impaler mentioned, seeds and withered plants would be nice to have. Granted, once you think about Surface Plants, Trees, etc. there are a lot of Dead saplings/shrubs to consider.
Took a look at the list, and I'll take a shot at updating the web list with the information, as well as tiles that are done now.
@7¢ Nickle: Death to Honkey Fantasy indeed! Totally digging the humans, especially that diplomat. Depending on how the GFX get standardized, they might need to be color balanced to match the high-saturation style of some of the more recent tiles, but they are fantastic.
@Pubby: That is several kinds of fantastic. Legolord would be so geeked.
I'm going to do my best to start compiling the graphics into the list, and update it as per Seuss' list, so we can see what we have done so far, and start to come to a style consensus.
Post by: Reasonableman on November 15, 2009, 02:50:06 pm
Also also, I wish I had some amount of pixel art talent :\
Post by: Dante on November 15, 2009, 04:02:22 pm
Decided to make a move on the crops. These are all the subterranean crops.
From left to right: Empty farm plot, Cave wheat, Pig tail, Plump helmet, Quarry bush, Sweet pod and a Dimple cup.
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2noyv9.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2dwg4rb.jpg)
All critique encouraged. ;D
These are absolutely amazing. However if they must be critiqued, I'd say the colours on the plump helmet need to be better differentiated, and the dimple cup needs to look more like a mushroom.
Post by: tomblifter on November 15, 2009, 04:05:21 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 15, 2009, 04:07:45 pm
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2i6flhc.png)
I'll probably tweak the shading a bit, but they're pretty much done.
Post by: Solifuge on November 15, 2009, 04:44:39 pm
Stonesense Wiki (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki)
It's mostly there for contributors to upload their graphics. I'm working on some simple Formatting conventions right now; for instance, check out the Tilesets Page. (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Tile_Sprites)
Post by: Taal on November 15, 2009, 05:02:53 pm
It would allow artists to grasp what style we're going for.
Post by: jarathor on November 15, 2009, 05:20:40 pm
(http://i35.tinypic.com/16bkmec.png)
So I just hit 'upload an image' on the wiki, right?
Or is there a certain way to do it?
First I have to put my sprites on a grid though.
Post by: Solifuge on November 15, 2009, 05:35:57 pm
Then upload the individual images to the Wiki. I'll work on formatting them later.
Post by: fifth angel on November 15, 2009, 06:48:05 pm
Okay, it's under contruction, but behold!
Stonesense Wiki (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki)
It's mostly there for contributors to upload their graphics. I'm working on some simple Formatting conventions right now; for instance, check out the Tilesets Page. (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Tile_Sprites)
Thanks! The list of needed surface-sprites is the most good part.
And I think I'm going crazy with that. I'll retouched all tiles (grass was redrawn about 6-7 times).
So... behold! 9 surfaces.
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf3.gif)
Post by: Seuss on November 15, 2009, 06:59:56 pm
The first Plump Helmet is the same shape as before just lightened up a bit and the second is all new.
(http://i35.tinypic.com/309hwcg.jpg)
The Pig Tail I had an issue with from the start as its nothing like I imagine them to be. I picture them to look like cotton plants with a spiralling seed pod but I couldn't make it work so I did the big pink stalks.
First is the old one, next is a redone version and the last is a version flowering assumingly with cotton like fibres.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2lbg93n.jpg)
I don't want to change the Dimple Cup, i think it fits well with what was originally depicted in the game. (a blue heart)
The Quarry Bush was a tough one. I imagined it to be a grey thick bush that looked like stones from afar but half way through that depiction I realised it just looked like a pile of rocks so I did the bonsai-ish version. :-\
Pick your favs. ;D
Post by: Jane on November 15, 2009, 07:03:52 pm
And I think I'm going crazy with that. I'll retouched all tiles (grass was redrawn about 6-7 times).
So... behold! 9 surfaces.
I like the changes except for the new grass, it's very flat and I can see the edges of each individual tile. I loved your previous grass tile though.
From your comments its seems that the Plump Helmet and Pig Tail needed a fix.
Pick your favs. ;D
Second helmet, it's much smoother. First pig tail, the second seems too stiff and the third makes me think it's a firecracker.
Post by: Seuss on November 15, 2009, 07:07:20 pm
So... behold! 9 surfaces.
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf3.gif)
If I might be so bold to point out that your grass and sand are quite bright, it may become stressing to the eyes and eat up other sprites on top of them.
Post by: fifth angel on November 15, 2009, 07:12:39 pm
If I might be so bold to point out that your grass and sand are quite bright, it may become stressing to the eyes and eat up other sprites on top of them.Arguable, I think. I mixed grass, dirt, trees and stones and my eyes (and the eyes of other people) were good. But it might be true with the sand. The most stressing for my eyes are bricks tiles ) we'll see.
Post by: Deon on November 15, 2009, 07:17:04 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 15, 2009, 07:17:53 pm
I agree, the second plump helmet and the first pig tail are the nicest looking - although if the fibre bunch on the third one was rounder I think it could work. Maybe you could try a combination of the first one and the flowering one.
Post by: 3 on November 15, 2009, 07:19:38 pm
Glad to see this project is going so well. If things carry on the way they're going, we'll probably end up with several seperate tilesets made by different users, much like we do now with the vanilla DF graphics.
Oh, and I concur with jarathor when it comes to the crops.
Post by: fifth angel on November 15, 2009, 07:23:42 pm
(http://trollolo.com/glagne/dorf4.gif)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 15, 2009, 07:24:02 pm
The pig tails are...ok. Second version preferred, as it looks curly- the first just looks phallic. the puff is a bit too outstanding on the third to me.
The other crops are fantastic, though.
hmm...a thought. you can get up to 11 of a crop grown in a square. It would be difficult to show 1-11 at this size, though.
There are different colors of sand in-game, remember. New sand isn't bad.
Post by: fifth angel on November 15, 2009, 07:30:19 pm
Personally, I'd think it would be a great shame if the sand tiles were made much darker than they are in that image - doing so would take a lot of uniqueness out of playing on a desert map (or somesuch). I could imagine the grass/water tiles looking a little "softer" (as Deon put it), though.
Glad to see this project is going so well. If things carry on the way they're going, we'll probably end up with several seperate tilesets made by different users, much like we do now with the vanilla DF graphics.
Oh, and I concur with jarathor when it comes to the crops.
Yeah, I thought about that too, that's why I started drawing new tiles from scratch.
The darker sand look's even more realistic... there are 3 more types anyway, I'll start doing recoloring for different types soon.
As for crops, they are superb, especially the last plamp helmet.
I hope we'll finish the most part of the tiles soon.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 15, 2009, 07:46:13 pm
I might work on it when I get off work if I have time.
Post by: jonask84 on November 15, 2009, 08:17:01 pm
I know jonask is busy with programming the new version, but if someone could update the files and post up a link to current version of stonesense with the current graphics we have added since the video (there are a lot) preloaded with no tweaking, it'd help spread this thing further.
I might work on it when I get off work if I have time.
Indeed there is a lot of new artwork. And indeed i'm coding in new stuff right now.
But don't you think we should hold off the release till it looks really good? PR-wise that sounds like a good idea to me :)
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 15, 2009, 08:23:03 pm
Unfortunately the new DF version will probably break compat horribly. D:
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 15, 2009, 08:31:43 pm
If you feel the release will be fairly soon, I agree. We have good momentum right now :)
Unfortunately the new DF version will probably break compat horribly. D:
undoubtly, but that is the way off the universe
Post by: jonask84 on November 15, 2009, 09:41:11 pm
We have good momentum right now :)We have great momentum! Things are moving so fast us devs can hardly keep up with all the new sprites. We're scrambling to get all the new code features in, and at the same time keep the artwork flowing into the trunk. The latter has been lacking a bit, but be assured, it will make it in till the next release :)
A note though, of course we can only have ONE set of goblins etc. And as stated earlier, we gotta be picky, so please no-one get offended if something gets replaced. There WILL be tilesets, and there WILL be tons and tons of customizable content. Personally I am awestruck at the quality of this stuff!
Now back to the code ;)
Cheers guys!
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 15, 2009, 10:00:28 pm
(http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/5182/sshumanmilitaryshow.png)
Unarmed, Lasher, Axeman, Hammerman, Swordsman
Spearman, Maceman, Crossbowman, Bowman, Pikeman
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/48/sscivilianshow.png)
Trader, Liason, Diplomat
A little more feedback and I'll upload em to the new wiki to be intergrated.
PS
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MatrexsVigil on November 15, 2009, 10:03:58 pm
From your comments its seems that the Plump Helmet and Pig Tail needed a fix.
The first Plump Helmet is the same shape as before just lightened up a bit and the second is all new.
(http://i35.tinypic.com/309hwcg.jpg)
The Pig Tail I had an issue with from the start as its nothing like I imagine them to be. I picture them to look like cotton plants with a spiralling seed pod but I couldn't make it work so I did the big pink stalks.
First is the old one, next is a redone version and the last is a version flowering assumingly with cotton like fibres.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2lbg93n.jpg)
I don't want to change the Dimple Cup, i think it fits well with what was originally depicted in the game. (a blue heart)
The Quarry Bush was a tough one. I imagined it to be a grey thick bush that looked like stones from afar but half way through that depiction I realised it just looked like a pile of rocks so I did the bonsai-ish version. :-\
Pick your favs. ;D
I like the pigtail with the bloom on it, however, I find the fact that each pig tail 'ring' is very bloated makes it look more like stacked kidneys than an actual plant. Maybe make them skinnier and/or change the color to match the bloom on it across the whole plant?
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 15, 2009, 10:05:25 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 15, 2009, 10:15:51 pm
Hmmm... I'm thinking a little bit lighter on the skin of those humans, more of a tan colour, so that it could cover humans from all over the world a bit easier opposed to just the warmer regions. :)
I think they're fine as is. Anyway, more important than color is the fact that they're excellently designed. My one criticism is that the hammerman's hammer could easily be mistaken for an axe -- a single-headed hammer would probably be more distinct. Also, maybe make the mace head a touch bigger? That might give you a little more room to depict those studs (at least I think that's what they are).
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 10:33:07 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 15, 2009, 10:38:39 pm
On plants I agree the new Plump Helmet is better but the stalk is indistinct. In general all of the plants seem to have weak roots and seem to 'float above' rather then grow from the ground. A bit of root splay like the base of a tree would be a good idea. Of the Pig tails I prefer the second but I think it could be even better if the plant had a conical shape as the spiral tightens at the top, that would look even more like a pigs tail and would probably show the coiling better (and eliminate the phallic appearance issue). I don't particularly like the bud/puff thing on the end either.
Post by: Fieari on November 15, 2009, 10:49:16 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 10:53:17 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 15, 2009, 10:55:52 pm
Bloated Tuber, Fisher Berry, Longland Grass, Muck Root, Pickle Berry and Rat Weed
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2w58uj5.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/24nh1c9.jpg)
Tuber looks ugly but I don't know what to do to fix it. :'( Help!
The Fisher Berry's berries are meant to be shaped like hooks but look like cherries, I'm ok with that. May fix.
Longland Grass is just a recolour of Cave Wheat as they are the same thing just one grows outside. May tone down the red.
Not much to say about Muck Root, It's uncommon.
Pickle Berry bush was easy wish the others were.
Rat Weed, nobody cares about it.
Again tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix it! As an artist you often get used to mistakes and you just don't notice them any more.
I will go over all the plants I post after I have done them all for consistency. It would also be handy to have a definite grass and dirt texture.
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 11:01:31 pm
It should look like some sort of Potato but this one sort of looks like a Pitcher plant to me. (You made it look like a Tube as a pun)
Post by: Seuss on November 15, 2009, 11:07:01 pm
I don't know if I accept that interpretation of what a "Tuber" is.
It should look like some sort of Potato but this one sort of looks like a Pitcher plant to me. (You made it look like a Tube as a pun)
lol whoops. I should think these through more. Though you saved me from trying to edit it. Start fresh, good idea.
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 11:11:54 pm
Longland Grass for example COULD be Wheat (though since "Cave Wheet" exists I don't know). In fact it uses the same symbol as Cave Wheat and is even yellow.
Rope Reed is likely Hemp
Post by: tehmarken on November 15, 2009, 11:19:05 pm
Muck root seems way too small to me. Maybe give is an exposed roots look, kinda like a mangrove tree?
I had a very busy weekend, but I'll be working out the goblins this week. Since I often like to play AS goblins, I'll be spending lots of time to make them come out perfect. I'll also be doing all the jobs, and I'll go back and do that with kobolds as well.
And those dwarves I saw were great, I liked the very distinct looks. I'd still like to finish out a set using my design, but after seeing those I'll prolly be borrowing a lot of inspiration :)
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 11:24:13 pm
I don't know what they are called. Except they are called Prickle Berry meaning they would involve a Prickle not a Pine bush. Unfortunately I always called them Prickly Plants so I don't know their true name
Though it also could be one of those REALLY spikey plants with fruit.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 15, 2009, 11:32:49 pm
Overall I think all the plants are excellent and strike a good balance between reality/fantasy and are easily distinguished which is key. I would like to see how they look in a larger farm plot area ware their will significant overlapping, I'm concerned they will seem to merge too much and become indistinct.
Post by: tehmarken on November 15, 2009, 11:38:57 pm
Also I picture Prickle Berries, especially due to their low price, to be one of those small wild berry plants you see outside all the time but don't eat.
I don't know what they are called. Except they are called Prickle Berry meaning they would involve a Prickle not a Pine bush. Unfortunately I always called them Prickly Plants so I don't know their true name
Though it also could be one of those REALLY spikey plants with fruit.
Black berry bushes! All over the place in my homestate of Virginia, and those things are big tangly masses of spikes! But they are delicious, and actually fetch quite a good price. But with a name like Prickle Berry, I'm definately imagining a black berry style pricker bush.
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 11:43:15 pm
They can remain distinct while also remaining true to the real world.
You don't want to go too far and make them cartoony as well.
A lot of this back on forth is the dictintion between cartoon and realism.
Post by: tehmarken on November 15, 2009, 11:44:08 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 11:46:53 pm
I'd argue it's more of cartoony vs grimdark :)
Yes, Singing Flowers Vs. Blackened Hearts
Post by: Neruz on November 15, 2009, 11:52:12 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 15, 2009, 11:56:18 pm
Considering the cheerfulness with which Dwarves will dump kittens into a spike-filled pit while setting the immediate countryside on fire and basking in the magmaey warmth of screaming Goblins, i'd say bright and cartoony graphics match DF's mood perfectly.
If Dwarf Fortress was weather I would say it is Cloudy with a chance of Sunshine rather then Sunny with a Chance of Rain.
Though I will admit it is amazing that all these glitches, bugs, and incomplete features of Dwarf Fortress just combined in people's minds to the point where a lot of people legitimately think of this game as a sunshine and lollypops comedy.
There are a few legitimate jokes I know of in Dwarf fortress (As in a joke that was put in as a joke)
Though I am probably wrong... Afterall Dwarves do need alcohol to function.
Post by: Neruz on November 16, 2009, 12:04:54 am
Considering the cheerfulness with which Dwarves will dump kittens into a spike-filled pit while setting the immediate countryside on fire and basking in the magmaey warmth of screaming Goblins, i'd say bright and cartoony graphics match DF's mood perfectly.
If Dwarf Fortress was weather I would say it is Cloudy with a chance of Sunshine rather then Sunny with a Chance of Rain.
Though I will admit it is amazing that all these glitches, bugs, and incomplete features of Dwarf Fortress just combined in people's minds to the point where a lot of people legitimately think of this game as a sunshine and lollypops comedy.
There are a few legitimate jokes I know of in Dwarf fortress (As in a joke that was put in as a joke)
Though I am probably wrong... Afterall Dwarves do need alcohol to function.
The apparant cheerfulness with which the Dwarves run around doing horrible things to each other is what is technically known as "Mood Dissonance".
Just because the game looks cheerful, doesn't mean it is.
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 12:35:41 am
(http://i36.tinypic.com/iqfsso.jpg) (http://i37.tinypic.com/117gt8p.jpg)
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 12:40:33 am
At this point I think I should stop giving my oppinion.
Post by: Neruz on November 16, 2009, 12:41:59 am
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 12:44:07 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 16, 2009, 12:47:36 am
It doesn't really give a feeling of being 'bloated', perhaps make it a bit bigger?
I think it looks like most of its bloated mass is hidden underground. I.e. it looks great to me.
Post by: tehmarken on November 16, 2009, 12:51:37 am
How bout this tuber?
(http://i36.tinypic.com/iqfsso.jpg) (http://i37.tinypic.com/117gt8p.jpg)
Perhaps have the tuber look a little more squared off on the top of it, instead of dome like.
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 12:53:10 am
While I certainly couldn't do any better. I don't actually like it.
At this point I think I should stop giving my oppinion.
Now don't be like that. Others opinions are important when working like this, the art isn't for me its for the community. I'm not someone to get super defensive when you tell me my work sucks.
Don't be nice be constructive!
I'm up to Rope Reed on this list (http://dwarf.lendemaindeveille.com/index.php/List_of_crops). People can help by Telling me how things should look or preferably a reference shot. ;D
Post by: Afthartos on November 16, 2009, 01:04:17 am
Alright, I finished the female equivalents for what I had so far:
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2i6flhc.png)
I'll probably tweak the shading a bit, but they're pretty much done.
Why did you make different avatars for different sexes? You can't tell dwarf sexes apart untill you get them out of their clothes
Post by: tehmarken on November 16, 2009, 01:26:49 am
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller-1-1.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 16, 2009, 01:44:39 am
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 16, 2009, 01:52:50 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 16, 2009, 01:55:46 am
they should be one of a set of standard transparency blobs of various sizes so the ground surface will actually look darkened as if in a shadow rather then inky blackness.
That's a good point too.
Post by: Rose on November 16, 2009, 02:00:46 am
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 16, 2009, 02:14:41 am
Also I picture Prickle Berries, especially due to their low price, to be one of those small wild berry plants you see outside all the time but don't eat.
You mean wineberries? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubus_phoenicolasius
Those are an invasive type of blackberry/raspberry family plant which grows all over the eastern us, and are hard to kill. They are edible but not terribly sweet.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 16, 2009, 02:15:54 am
Post by: Solifuge on November 16, 2009, 02:49:38 am
How bout this tuber?
(http://i36.tinypic.com/iqfsso.jpg) (http://i37.tinypic.com/117gt8p.jpg)
Seuss, that Tuber is fantastic, as are the rest of the plants! I am enjoying your style a great deal.
You may want to use a dark boarder around the plants, specifically the green leafy parts, to help differentiate them from the grass. You never know what color tile the plant will be on top of, so it's often best to do a dark boarder around these sprites, especially on parts that are "above" the ground.
The Pig Tail I had an issue with from the start as its nothing like I imagine them to be. I picture them to look like cotton plants with a spiralling seed pod but I couldn't make it work so I did the big pink stalks.I rather like the 2nd upright coiled one; it's got more character to it, and creates a better impression of a singular stalk to me. If you can find a way to create a tuft of cotton-fillaments on the end without it looking like a sparkler, that might help it look more like a seeding plant used for thread; elsewise, certain processed fibrous plants, for instance Hemp, can be woven into coarse garments, so it would still make sense.
First is the old one, next is a redone version and the last is a version flowering assumingly with cotton like fibres.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2lbg93n.jpg)
Post by: tehmarken on November 16, 2009, 03:35:21 am
Post by: Dante on November 16, 2009, 03:41:52 am
Hmmm... I'm thinking a little bit lighter on the skin of those humans, more of a tan colour, so that it could cover humans from all over the world a bit easier opposed to just the warmer regions. :)
I think they're fine as is. Anyway, more important than color is the fact that they're excellently designed. My one criticism is that the hammerman's hammer could easily be mistaken for an axe -- a single-headed hammer would probably be more distinct. Also, maybe make the mace head a touch bigger? That might give you a little more room to depict those studs (at least I think that's what they are).
My thoughts mirror Footkerchief's. Also, maybe shave a pixel off the sides of the red cheekpad things? They look a bit bloated.
Couple more plants, this time topside. I'm struggling with having thin plants on brown and green as they get lost unless my plant is a radically different colour.
Bloated Tuber, Fisher Berry, Longland Grass, Muck Root, Pickle Berry and Rat Weed
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2w58uj5.jpg)
(http://i37.tinypic.com/24nh1c9.jpg)
Tuber looks ugly but I don't know what to do to fix it. :'( Help!
The Fisher Berry's berries are meant to be shaped like hooks but look like cherries, I'm ok with that. May fix.
Longland Grass is just a recolour of Cave Wheat as they are the same thing just one grows outside. May tone down the red.
Not much to say about Muck Root, It's uncommon.
Pickle Berry bush was easy wish the others were.
Rat Weed, nobody cares about it.
Again tell me what I'm doing wrong so I can fix it! As an artist you often get used to mistakes and you just don't notice them any more.
I will go over all the plants I post after I have done them all for consistency. It would also be handy to have a definite grass and dirt texture.
I think the bloated tuber is fine as is. Maybe a mottling of grey over it, too?
I think the rat weed needs to be darker and the muck root should be a little larger, wrinklier and browner. Other than that, these are great!
Post by: DarkerDark on November 16, 2009, 03:46:53 am
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2162/elves.png)
From left to right: Bowelf with dried rope reed cloak and hood (for extra ambush action!), Male Elf Wrestler (complete with weedy legs and lack of proper fighting posture), Female Elf Wrestler, Female Elf Wrestler mark 2.
Not really hoping to get anything committed to the project, as I'm still learning the intricacies of pixel art. I just want you guys to keep the artwork coming, because it's all wicked slick!
Post by: Grif on November 16, 2009, 04:55:13 am
Also, would love to see some dwarf designs from 7Ē Nickel.
Post by: dreiche2 on November 16, 2009, 05:51:42 am
The original pigtail with the limp/floppy end to it actually looks a lot better to me, and the shadows between the curls looks more distinct to me. I recognized it immediately as a pig tail, because it's all curly. The 2nd plump helment looks MUCH better, very clear, although I agree it could use extra stem.
I also liked the original curly one most...
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 16, 2009, 09:59:58 am
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/4068/ssbounds.png)
These are the boundaries of a single tile in stonesense. If you go below, the floors to the south and east will overlap and cut off your feet. If you go above, the sprites can overlap with the top surface of the wall, which while not as bad as going below, still looks pretty weird. Dark's elves for instance look great, but currently suffer from both these problems.
Post by: Aldaris on November 16, 2009, 10:28:29 am
Been following this thread for awhile now, and everytime I see the nice pixel art posted here, I get more and more inspired. So I've decided to put that inspiration to use and try my luck with some elves!
(http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/2162/elves.png)
From left to right: Bowelf with dried rope reed cloak and hood (for extra ambush action!), Male Elf Wrestler (complete with weedy legs and lack of proper fighting posture), Female Elf Wrestler, Female Elf Wrestler mark 2.
Not really hoping to get anything committed to the project, as I'm still learning the intricacies of pixel art. I just want you guys to keep the artwork coming, because it's all wicked slick!
Nice elves, they even fit with this thing cooperative art spawned.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: DeKaFu on November 16, 2009, 11:00:15 am
And so, Beak dog:
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7416/beakdog1.gif)
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1319/beakdog1big.gif)
I sort of picture it somewhere between a vulture, hyena and velociraptor. It might be on the small side, though. :/
I figured I could use fanciful colours, it being a made-up critter and all.
What do people think?
Post by: Sunday on November 16, 2009, 11:10:06 am
I love the plants posted earlier as well.
There are some damn fine pixel artists here.
Post by: Deon on November 16, 2009, 02:23:56 pm
They sound like those creatures goblins mount in Labyrinth movie.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3180/2554044738_e85568e889.jpg?v=0)
I like yours nonetheless.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 16, 2009, 02:30:41 pm
I don't think that they are totally made-up.
They sound like those creatures goblins mount in Labyrinth movie.
Yeah:
Beak dogs are based on Labyrinth and Tremors 2, he he he.
I suppose they shouldn't be called hands, but beakdogs walk on 2 legs. Vaguely t-rexy hunched over with vultureish heads.
DeKaFu's look good to me.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 16, 2009, 02:33:18 pm
Post by: LegoLord on November 16, 2009, 05:18:41 pm
@Pubby: That is several kinds of fantastic. Legolord would be so geeked.Hell yeah! That is awesome. I skipped over all the posts between this quote and this post just to say that (which I almost never do!)
Post by: Neruz on November 16, 2009, 05:24:46 pm
Wow. I really don't have the time to contribute to this, but it's just so exciting I had to at least try my hand at something interesting.
And so, Beak dog:
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7416/beakdog1.gif)
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1319/beakdog1big.gif)
I sort of picture it somewhere between a vulture, hyena and velociraptor. It might be on the small side, though. :/
I figured I could use fanciful colours, it being a made-up critter and all.
What do people think?
Toady has said in the past that Beak Dogs are basically oversized Velociraptors.
Considering that recently it's becoming a fairly popular theory that many of the Raptor species did in fact have feathers, that's reasonably accurate.
I'd give it more texture on the feathers though; atm they look like fur.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 16, 2009, 05:28:37 pm
(http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5014/sshumantweakedtest.png)
Better?
Post by: Jadael on November 16, 2009, 05:29:13 pm
Have you considered rendering simple shadows like this? You could even just use DF's built in flag for whether a tile is 'lit' or 'dark'. Just draw that tile like, 10% darker.
An option to draw lower levels in gradually darker shades would be great too, to help show more perspective.
Post by: jonask84 on November 16, 2009, 05:32:43 pm
7Ē Nickel: It's looking really nice, would you mind dropping by IRC if you had time?
Post by: Footkerchief on November 16, 2009, 05:33:24 pm
Ok, tweaked some of the humans a bit to hopefully fix the iddues brought up.
Better?
Much! I hadn't thought of going with a flail-style weapon for the maceman, but that's great for differentiating them. And it looks spiky now too!
Also, Jadael, that's a cool idea, although it looks kind of funky in the lower left corner.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 16, 2009, 05:42:21 pm
Post by: fifth angel on November 16, 2009, 05:46:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As far as I can see, the tree needs some contrast, the grass shoud be redrawn one more time (: And the water too, I guess. And I'm thinking about some mid-place like grass-dirt or dirt-sand... or anything. Some engine, that would make those subtextures. That would give very interesting look.
Post by: Dante on November 16, 2009, 05:52:54 pm
Also, those bushes and trees are startlingly different in style - I think either the trees need a solid outline, or the bushes need to lose their solid outline and become slightly lighter.
Other than that, it seems good.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 16, 2009, 06:35:22 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 16, 2009, 06:55:27 pm
Quote
Personally I would lean towards giving the trees an outline vs taking it away from the bushes. I think it helps differentiate the tree/bush from the grass.Agreed
fifth angel: I think the water looks fine and should stay as it is, the grass doesn't seem very lush, try making it darker green, perhaps your current grass should act as dry grass.
Post by: dreiche2 on November 16, 2009, 07:18:53 pm
Ok, tweaked some of the humans a bit to hopefully fix the issues brought up.
(http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/5014/sshumantweakedtest.png)
Better?
They all look really great... but a mace is not the same as a flail (what you're depicting), is it? I actually think the original maceman is fine...
Post by: Mephansteras on November 16, 2009, 07:22:50 pm
Post by: DeKaFu on November 16, 2009, 07:25:22 pm
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3893/beakdog2.gif)
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9148/beakdog2large.gif)
I tried making the back-feathers more distinct and giving it some more on the forelimbs. The outline's not as distinct now...I'm not sure whether that's a good or bad thing.
What do you think, better?
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 07:31:14 pm
I oddly can't make Quartz even though I've done it before.
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 08:21:18 pm
(http://i33.tinypic.com/34ik9pd.jpg)
(http://i33.tinypic.com/2uy6gci.jpg)
3 more to go + The Shrub. Will go over all these again then make the items by themselves, you don't want plant growing in your stock piles.
Post by: KillHour on November 16, 2009, 08:28:24 pm
Post by: LegoLord on November 16, 2009, 08:30:22 pm
More off topic, where are mountain herbs found? I don't think I've come across them before.
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 08:31:50 pm
I know it sounds silly... but I kind of expected Sun Berry to be a bit more exotic.
Silver Barb:
It lacks presence. It doesn't really stand out or brings attention to its existance
Mountain Herb
Good.
Wild Strawberry
It is good, the berry itself could be a bit bigger if you wanted to perfct it
Rope Reed
Perfect, Oddly enough it can double as a Cat Tail plant
Whip vine
Uhhhh... It contradicts its intention In my oppinion. Maybe you should make it growing on something
Remember that you can make a difference between wild and garden versions of plants. So the Home grown version could be growing on a Stick (Like Tomatoes do for example) while the wild ones could be growing on a rock.
Either that or it should be creepishly floating.
Post by: 1138 on November 16, 2009, 08:32:47 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 08:35:05 pm
And its a Valley Herb. My mistake :-X
Heh. I hadn't read the quote about vulture-like heads, that was just my personal image of them.
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3893/beakdog2.gif)
(http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/9148/beakdog2large.gif)
I tried making the back-feathers more distinct and giving it some more on the forelimbs. The outline's not as distinct now...I'm not sure whether that's a good or bad thing.
What do you think, better?
Thats awesome! I recon it just needs a little gloss on the feathers/fur and your set 8)
What is the IRC server and channel? I have a few questions I'd like to ask.Good idea we need one of these ^^^
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 08:39:26 pm
It is a Vrok! Though maybe not. The similarity is probably intentional given the sources.
Post by: Fieari on November 16, 2009, 08:42:50 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 08:44:50 pm
For the sun berries... I definitely think it needs to be more exotic. I personally imagine a single stalk with fancy leaves along the sides, at the top of which is a single golden berry, perhaps visibly glowing, and maybe surrounded by yellow leaves/flower petals in the shape of triangles like a sunburst.A sunflower?
Post by: Mephansteras on November 16, 2009, 08:45:16 pm
Post by: Fieari on November 16, 2009, 08:52:11 pm
A sunflower?Kinda, except more so, with glowing berries instead of seeds, and curly ivy to decorate the stem.
Post by: LegoLord on November 16, 2009, 08:53:46 pm
And its a Valley Herb. My mistake :-X?
I still haven't encountered it. Can it only be scavenged, like Kobold bulbs?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 16, 2009, 08:56:03 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 08:57:09 pm
At least the Berry part
Post by: Jadael on November 16, 2009, 09:06:52 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 09:09:34 pm
Better? Worse?
Sunflower berries in the works, might use old Sun Berry bush for the Prickle Berry bush
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 09:17:31 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 16, 2009, 09:27:16 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 09:32:00 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 09:32:48 pm
Given the dirrection these rows go (Up a down) maybe it should be pointing the other way so it looks like a continuous stream of this vineGood point. ;)
Sun Berry Mk.II
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2nc3x9z.jpg)(http://i34.tinypic.com/2ep2729.jpg)(http://i34.tinypic.com/2ztlu1x.jpg)
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 09:40:25 pm
Especially since this is supposed to be a crop.
Though either way Seuss it is good enough to go in as it is.
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 09:54:36 pm
Id love for more then one flower to be part of the Sunberry.
Especially since this is supposed to be a crop.
Though either way Seuss it is good enough to go in as it is.
I've thought about the issue with farm tiles containing more than one plant (some up to 12) and I decided that the tiles should be a representation not a direct depiction. I think the same should go for all sprites going into this Project.
Another issue is I would get pressed for space and things will look cluttered.
(http://i37.tinypic.com/2zoan4j.jpg)
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 09:55:40 pm
Are you also going to be doing the image of each individual Food, process, Alcohol and/or seed from these plants?
I guess I could give it a shot but my old skills are mud... Well I guess I could try... where is that old image?
Does anyone have a Grid I could borrow with the boarders and floor indicated?
Post by: pubby on November 16, 2009, 10:07:10 pm
Like ones placed in the middle of a field to show what crop it is.
Post by: Jadael on November 16, 2009, 10:13:17 pm
Post by: jonask84 on November 16, 2009, 10:17:58 pm
oh and the irc channel we're usually on is #dfhack @ freenode.net
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 10:21:23 pm
Post by: jonask84 on November 16, 2009, 10:23:49 pm
http://java.freenode.net/
Post by: Seuss on November 16, 2009, 10:26:42 pm
Yeah that image really helps
Are you also going to be doing the image of each individual Food, process, Alcohol and/or seed from these plants?
I guess I could give it a shot but my old skills are mud... Well I guess I could try... where is that old image?
Does anyone have a Grid I could borrow with the boarders and floor indicated?
I've been using this as a pallet and those cubes are the correct size. Its a good pallet though you might need to tweak a few colours here and there :-X
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSPalette.png)
Seuss, I love those plants, they're really great. You think you could post them in the wiki (that way we get all in the same place), and also post em without the soil, so they can be used for wild growing shrubs too :)
oh and the irc channel we're usually on is #dfhack @ freenode.net
I don't want to, not just yet. Another 4 Plants then I will tweak all of them and put them on the wiki. Shouldn't be longer than a day.
Yay irc.
Post by: Dante on November 16, 2009, 10:42:13 pm
:'(
After tantrumming for a while, I managed to re-do them.
There are a bunch of different versions because I'm not sure what works best.
(http://i36.tinypic.com/2n0rl7d.png) (http://i35.tinypic.com/2egemuc.png)
That blob by the tripwire is meant to be the shadow of an unseen, suspended boulder. It was much much better the first time around. :'(
I think they look okay on stone floors
(http://i35.tinypic.com/rbmj6f.png)
Though the stone-fall trap without the base tile looks least out of place on grass.
(http://i35.tinypic.com/x3b8gm.png)
Thanks to jonask for the original trap tiles (iirc).
Cage traps to follow soon.
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 11:02:06 pm
(http://i35.tinypic.com/o0xu85.jpg)
Post by: Xandrin on November 16, 2009, 11:03:55 pm
New member here. Stonesense has inspired me to register as I believe that I can contribute a little to the project where I can.
First, "Grassier" Grass!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is the effect:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And this is the inspiration:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I liked the grass, and copied the colouration and then sized it to fit with Stonesense. It's larger than the standard 32x16 (it's 32x18), but the extra spikey bits give the landscape some flavour and texture. It provides a bit of a "darker" atmosphere as well, which is something that I know is a common complaint about Stonesense.
Second, it is vital for this project to gather its resources in ONE location. Right now we have Google Code and the Wiki, but neither is really tracking the progress. My vote is to move all info related to the sprites to the wiki, and code related stuff (draw order, shadows, xml fiddly-bits) should remain on Google Code.
Let me know what you think, and feel free to fiddle with my sprites as I am going to be busy to high heaven with my Engineering degree until April :-[. Rest assured I'll find time to post now and again though :D.
Post by: spenguin on November 16, 2009, 11:14:47 pm
How does one get to that IRC channel without downloading MIRC Free Trial or buying it?
You should get irssi. It's an excellent free and open-source IRC client. I haven't found any that I like more.
Post by: jarathor on November 16, 2009, 11:17:00 pm
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/1/18/Dungeonmastermale.png)
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/4/4d/Dungeonmasterfemale.png)
I'm not sure how to make the key look clearer - is it clear enough? Also I'm not sure about the combination of the dark red with the purple cape.
I'm loving all of those crops, Suess. They're epic.
Since the traps aren't ever going to be swimming or falling (at least I hope not) I think they'd all look good with shadows on the ground - although I never really thought about what stonefall traps are before... That's actually quite a conundrum.
Nice, Xandrin - if you could pull off making all of the slopes with that texture, then it'd look awesome.
Post by: Neonivek on November 16, 2009, 11:42:36 pm
And I did terrible at it. To prove it
(http://i35.tinypic.com/2s7z4e8.jpg)
Mind you they arn't as complete as they could be. If one shape is particularly well done Ill think of doing proper shading.
Post by: Solifuge on November 16, 2009, 11:53:06 pm
A MASSIVE TUTORIAL APPROACHES!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSTut1.png?t=1258433563)
Actually, it's pretty small, and its more of a template with instructions. Sorry if it doesn't make sense; I think in images, and occasionally try to communicate via them as well.
Post by: Dante on November 17, 2009, 12:27:48 am
That is, is the top row or the bottom row of these cage traps correct?
(http://i35.tinypic.com/w0hwxz.png)
As you can see, it makes a difference, because I had to shrink the cage in the last sprite to fit.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 17, 2009, 12:56:47 am
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1996/mandfciviliansr.png)
Male and female versions of default, trader, liason, and diplomat. Tell me what you think.
Post by: Neruz on November 17, 2009, 01:07:55 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 17, 2009, 01:15:00 am
Post by: Xandrin on November 17, 2009, 01:17:27 am
Nice, Xandrin - if you could pull off making all of the slopes with that texture, then it'd look awesome.I would continue with that project, but I believe the Stonesense team is more interested in gathering a complete spriteset and don't need individual projects sprouting up. Also I'm bupkis with shading ;) . If Solifuge or Jonask give it the go-ahead to be the grass for the release then I'll give it a try, but otherwise we should focus on getting a complete, consistent sprite set together. Once that's done, perhaps I'll spend more time creating my own sprite set.
I will try to keep the Wiki (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki)) updated with the developments of the forum community, so that we have an organised sprite database to reference for which sprites are needed/released/in development.
Male and female versions of default, trader, liason, and diplomat. Tell me what you think.I have to agree with Neruz, your women are not distinct enough from the men. I suggest thinner legs or a skirt instead of the pants/leggings they have now (if you're going for historical greek, it's likely women wore a skirt or pleated dress). The diplomat is the only female version that is sufficiently unique. Hope that helps a bit.
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 17, 2009, 01:21:18 am
Those are very manly women.I bet you a dollar they wouldnt make you a sandwich if you asked them to.
Post by: Fieari on November 17, 2009, 01:57:26 am
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on November 17, 2009, 02:10:16 am
To me, anyway.
Post by: Neruz on November 17, 2009, 02:10:55 am
I bet you a dollar they would if i asked them with a Tank.Those are very manly women.I bet you a dollar they wouldnt make you a sandwich if you asked them to.
Post by: tehmarken on November 17, 2009, 02:30:52 am
Post by: Taal on November 17, 2009, 03:24:47 am
These new one's, illustrating the actual trap look tacky.
Post by: Seuss on November 17, 2009, 03:32:22 am
x1 Version
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Brown Moses on November 17, 2009, 04:54:12 am
Post by: DennyTom on November 17, 2009, 05:29:59 am
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/sandfort.png)
Have you considered rendering simple shadows like this? You could even just use DF's built in flag for whether a tile is 'lit' or 'dark'. Just draw that tile like, 10% darker.
An option to draw lower levels in gradually darker shades would be great too, to help show more perspective.
Sorry, but I do not like your shadows idea. However the shadows on lower left side of your screen is shadow that reminded me a shadow of a cloud. Dynamic clouds (or their shadows in this case) could look very interesting. On the other hand this could need much work.
Post by: kingpocky on November 17, 2009, 07:11:09 am
Post by: sidew on November 17, 2009, 07:37:41 am
There are some good upscaling algorithm, some are used on MAME. See this old page for samples (and sources) hq4x (http://web.archive.org/web/20070717064839/www.hiend3d.com/hq4x.html), hq3x (http://web.archive.org/web/20070717064839/www.hiend3d.com/hq3x.html) and hq2x (http://web.archive.org/web/20070717064839/www.hiend3d.com/hq2x.html)
Some sprites maybe look very good with these upscaler
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 17, 2009, 07:42:37 am
edit:Seuss, strawberries still don't look much like the kind RL
Post by: Shoehead on November 17, 2009, 07:48:49 am
Kobold thief: (http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/koboldthief.png)That is the cutest little theif I've ever seen.
Post by: kaypy on November 17, 2009, 07:50:55 am
That... confused me slightly. Solifuge, are we meant to be factoring in the width of a floor when we're making a tile, or do we ignore that?Anything buildingish, like traps, is drawn over the top of a floor tile, so shouldn't have its own floor at all.
Post by: Grif on November 17, 2009, 10:08:15 am
jarathor's dwarf:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/1/18/Dungeonmastermale.png
tehmarken dwarf:
http://members.chello.nl/p.meijer33/Dwarf_helmet.PNG
7Ē Nickel humans:
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1996/mandfciviliansr.png
I'm just seeing a rather substancial difference between, say, 7Ē Nickel's art and jarathor's art with tehmarken inbetween them;
if Stonesense is to have a cohesive style what have you guys decided on? Like I've said before, I'd love to see some dwarves by 7Ē Nickel.
Post by: jonask84 on November 17, 2009, 10:13:22 am
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 17, 2009, 11:10:20 am
(http://img693.imageshack.us/img693/802/mandfcivilians.png)
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 17, 2009, 11:11:25 am
I like the shadow idea for 'unlit' squares. Really adds depth and feel to the different elevations.
I dont think the difference in style for races will be that huge of a deal. Will give them a different feel and make it easier to tell them apart. I kind of like it like that.
The plants look awesome!!!!
I really dig the new grass tiles. They look really good. If the slopes and ramps had the same texture I think the wide open fields and hills would look great.
The new mechanisms and shops look great as well. I really need to get some screen shots of my harbor fort. It looks really nifty in Stonesense. Only issue is I cant get a full view of the 18 level lighthouse.
Yoj.
Post by: dyze on November 17, 2009, 12:09:06 pm
So far enjoying everything but it seems the dwarfs presented aren't really in the same style as humans; example:
jarathor's dwarf:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/1/18/Dungeonmastermale.png
tehmarken dwarf:
http://members.chello.nl/p.meijer33/Dwarf_helmet.PNG
7Ē Nickel humans:
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1996/mandfciviliansr.png
nickel's style is imo the most attractive (no offense to any of the other contributers). i also think its the one that fits best with the existing tiles.
Post by: Jadael on November 17, 2009, 12:11:53 pm
Quote
I like the shadow idea for 'unlit' squares. Really adds depth and feel to the different elevations.
Well, it'd also make indoors darker than outdoors, and eventually when DF has light sources other than the sky, Stonesense will display those too.
Post by: Randominality on November 17, 2009, 02:52:33 pm
I've thought about the issue with farm tiles containing more than one plant (some up to 12) and I decided that the tiles should be a representation not a direct depiction. I think the same should go for all sprites going into this Project.
Another issue is I would get pressed for space and things will look cluttered.
With regards to that: Like you have done with many of the plants already, you could have 1 plant that visibly contains more than one piece of fruit - like the Muck Root, Rope Reed and the Strawberries. Thus if you were to have the sunberries have more than one flower head or several berries packed into the centre of one flower it would help to depict being able to harvest more than one product from each tile. That said, I think the plants look great as is and to be honest don't need much improvement at all.
Post by: Deon on November 17, 2009, 03:14:23 pm
Post by: fifth angel on November 17, 2009, 05:03:01 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 17, 2009, 05:04:01 pm
So far enjoying everything but it seems the dwarfs presented aren't really in the same style as humans; example:
jarathor's dwarf:
http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/1/18/Dungeonmastermale.png
tehmarken dwarf:
http://members.chello.nl/p.meijer33/Dwarf_helmet.PNG
7Ē Nickel humans:
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/1996/mandfciviliansr.png
nickel's style is imo the most attractive (no offense to any of the other contributers). i also think its the one that fits best with the existing tiles.
None taken. If anybody wants to either modify or create anew the dwarf sprites go ahead - I just knew that I could crank them out relatively quickly, and unless I'm missing any, I believe that I've done them all by now. There are quite a few pixel artists here a lot better than me who could vastly improve them, since they admittedly aren't quite on par with a lot of the other work going into this project.
Post by: fifth angel on November 17, 2009, 05:10:53 pm
None taken. If anybody wants to either modify or create anew the dwarf sprites go ahead - I just knew that I could crank them out relatively quickly, and unless I'm missing any, I believe that I've done them all by now. There are quite a few pixel artists here a lot better than me who could vastly improve them, since they admittedly aren't quite on par with a lot of the other work going into this project.
Tough words (: Improvement comes easier, can't argue with that, but there always could be an option like "select dwarf tiles".
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 17, 2009, 05:38:51 pm
Ok updated humans. Tweaked the clothes, reduced the shoulders and changed the shading to make em look smoother. I cant really reduce the legs without turning em into toothpicks.
Worked like magic, if I may say so. Very lovely work.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 17, 2009, 05:55:53 pm
Post by: LegoLord on November 17, 2009, 06:55:59 pm
Ehh, I'm fine with the "manly women". I mean - what's the gameplay difference? If there's practically no difference in game, it makes sense that there's practically no difference graphically.We know that there will be a difference eventually, so it's better to get it out of the way now instead of letting a bunch of manly women sprites pile up until that difference is implemented into DF - at which point there'd be a lot of work to be done to make genders (and possibly other castes?) distinct.
To me, anyway.
Post by: kaypy on November 17, 2009, 07:25:05 pm
I've asked it before, but how to fix the crash when a "sandy" tile appears on the screen (that which appears after you remove some construction).Jonask has put in a bunch of map sanitization code since a3. If you havent been using a build from SVN, then theres a good chance things will clear up on the next release.
Post by: Seuss on November 17, 2009, 09:19:51 pm
got bored, drew alligator (http://trollolo.com/glagne/cre1.gif)
You drew a sexy alligator 8)
---
Crops are done.
This shot isn't as glamorous as the last but its the one i uploaded to the wiki and is taken from 'objects.png'.
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/c/c2/Crop.png)
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 17, 2009, 09:40:40 pm
I give you Goldparch. A small dwarven harbor at the crossroads of two trade routes. It includes a lighthouse, McUrist's Pub and Disco, McUrist's Puke'N'Stumbl Hotel, trading ship, fishing boat and a steel warship the dwarfhammer!
The gears and windows really makes it come to life. Once the color matches (golden roof on the lighthouse, dance floor in the bar, great map room for example) things will really start to sparkle.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This stuff fills me with untold amounts of glee and anticipation of what is to come. Excellent work.
Yoj
Post by: kingpocky on November 17, 2009, 09:51:07 pm
I think this thread needs more megaprojects rendered in Stonesense. Hopefully more of the forumgoers will be struck by strange moods and create artifact fortresses encrusted with isometric.
Post by: Dante on November 17, 2009, 09:59:26 pm
So here's two different colour antmen, two different colour batmen (not sure if they should be standing or flying), a whale shark, and a nurse shark that would probably do for some other types of shark as well.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/x98yd.png) (http://i48.tinypic.com/2qvt7vo.png)
I'll upload them to http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Creature_Sprites as I go, I guess.
Post by: Xandrin on November 17, 2009, 10:18:53 pm
Giant Cave Spider!
(http://i45.tinypic.com/nq9qb4.png)
Maybe he's a bit complicated? First attempt at drawing sprites in isometric...and first attempt at following Suess/Solifuge/Jonask's style.
Dante - Do your temp sprites fit inside of the cube shape templates? They seem a bit big but that could be just me and my aging eyes. I'm all for placeholders but not if they pop through the floor :D
Post by: Dante on November 17, 2009, 10:20:49 pm
EDIT
Actually, wait: the horizontal batmen may not, because I just rotated them through 90 degrees. I'll just go check.
EDIT
Yep, by pure serendipity the flying ones still work out just within the cube. Though they could afford to be moved a pixel to the left. I'll get back to that.
EDIT
So this is what I have, in a bit over an hour.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2u8yv5t.png)
That's whale shark, nurse/generic shark, antmen x2, batmen x4, unrecognisable coelacanth, sea monsters x2, newly resized camel, newly resized cow, elephant, elk, gazelle x2, nightwing/cave swallow, giant bat, giant scorpions x2, giant eagle.
If nothing else, this should drive people to create in the hopes of replacing these ...things. ;D
Post by: Seuss on November 18, 2009, 06:13:31 am
Just when you thought it was okay to go back into the cave...
Giant Cave Spider!
(http://i45.tinypic.com/nq9qb4.png)
Maybe he's a bit complicated? First attempt at drawing sprites in isometric...and first attempt at following Suess/Solifuge/Jonask's style.
Dante - Do your temp sprites fit inside of the cube shape templates? They seem a bit big but that could be just me and my aging eyes. I'm all for placeholders but not if they pop through the floor :D
Awesome work hope to see some more. :o
Yeah, I drew them inside the standard cube template.
EDIT
Actually, wait: the horizontal batmen may not, because I just rotated them through 90 degrees. I'll just go check.
EDIT
Yep, by pure serendipity the flying ones still work out just within the cube. Though they could afford to be moved a pixel to the left. I'll get back to that.
EDIT
So this is what I have, in a bit over an hour.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's whale shark, nurse/generic shark, antmen x2, batmen x4, unrecognisable coelacanth, sea monsters x2, newly resized camel, newly resized cow, elephant, elk, gazelle x2, nightwing/cave swallow, giant bat, giant scorpions x2, giant eagle.
If nothing else, this should drive people to create in the hopes of replacing these ...things. ;D
As much as im against just scaling down real images of animals with a few edits, any sprite is better than no sprite ;)
I'm going to ask if there are any objects that need need sprites ASAP? My next set of sprites I'd like to do are trees or more rock cubes but it'd be nice to do something a little more... interesting first.
Post by: 1138 on November 18, 2009, 06:21:21 am
I also added some sprites I've been making.
Post by: Vince on November 18, 2009, 07:41:27 am
Pseudocode:
Code: [Select]
for x=1..n (n: total number of tiles on the x-axis)
for y=1..m (m: total number of tiles on the y-axis)
unNoNeighbour=0;
if tile(x-1,y) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoWest=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
if tile(x,y-1) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoNorth=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
if tile(x+1,y) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoEast=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
if tile(x,y+1) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoSouth=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
switch(unNoNeighbour)
case(0):
draw(E)
break;
case(1):
if(bNoWest)
draw(D1);
[...]
//and so on, 3 more "if"s
break;
case(2):
if(bNoWest&&bNoNorth)
deaw(C1);
[...]
//and so on, 7 more "if"s
break;
case(3):
if(!bNoWest) //watch the "!"
draw(B1);
[...]
//and so on, 3 more "if"s
break;
case(4):
draw(A);
break;
end;
end;
end;
Quick mockup for A-E: http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2178/tiling.png
I guess this would improve the viewing quality, especially in environments like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Drawback: I'm not really sure how you could find the correct "ground"-texture for the places where the grass is not growing in that tile (i.e. for mockup A) - maybe with transparency?
You could use the material of the block below the floor as the default ground, use it's material as the ground texture and draw the "smoothed" grass/loam/sand/... on top of it.
Post by: fifth angel on November 18, 2009, 07:51:33 am
I wonder if it would be a big hit to the performance if the ground tiles were chosen with respect to the surrounding tiles, so that we have smoothed angles.
Pseudocode:Code: [Select]for x=1..n (n: total number of tiles on the x-axis)
for y=1..m (m: total number of tiles on the y-axis)
unNoNeighbour=0;
if tile(x-1,y) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoWest=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
if tile(x,y-1) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoNorth=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
if tile(x+1,y) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoEast=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
if tile(x,y+1) not exists || is not of same type as tile(x,y)
bnoSouth=true;
unNoNeighbour++;
switch(unNoNeighbour)
case(0):
draw(E)
break;
case(1):
if(bNoWest)
draw(D1);
[...]
//and so on, 3 more "if"s
break;
case(2):
if(bNoWest&&bNoNorth)
deaw(C1);
[...]
//and so on, 7 more "if"s
break;
case(3):
if(!bNoWest) //watch the "!"
draw(B1);
[...]
//and so on, 3 more "if"s
break;
case(4):
draw(A);
break;
end;
end;
end;
Quick mockup for A-E: http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2178/tiling.png
I guess this would improve the viewing quality, especially in environments like this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Drawback: I'm not really sure how you could find the correct "ground"-texture for the places where the grass is not growing (i.e. for mockup A) - maybe with transparency?
You could use the material of the block below the floor as the default ground, use the ground texture and draw the "smoothed" grass/loam/sand/... on top of it.
I stated that too (: ...Maybe like that. Anyway, the best option is to allow alpha-channel, but you can make good results with just transparency and right algorythm.
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2009, 08:16:50 am
Some of those animals, while nice, clash with the overall style of the game... but Id have to see them in action first I guess. Though they likely arn't the finished product.
The Giant Cave Spider though is perfect
Post by: Innominate on November 18, 2009, 08:21:47 am
Post by: fifth angel on November 18, 2009, 08:28:48 am
This mod is starting to get some serious stylistic problems.
Some of those animals, while nice, clash with the overall style of the game... but Id have to see them in action first I guess. Though they likely arn't the finished product.
The Giant Cave Spider though is perfect
That's why big projects have lead designer )
Post by: jonask84 on November 18, 2009, 08:52:24 am
To anyone contributing sprites, let me first say again thank you so much for your work! I would like to point out this GCS by Xandrin: (http://i45.tinypic.com/nq9qb4.png) Not only is it superbly drawn, but it matches the style of the rest of the tileset... And see how he fit it inside the box? You gotta do this people, at least make sure your creatures don't go under the bottom lines because they'll get cropped off ingame... Take this otherwise excellent cow: (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/8/84/Cow.png) It's too big, it's feet would get cut off :(
@YojimboUsaka: Wow! Wonderful fort! really amazing. It's unfortunate that the wet sand floors where not configured in that release, but they will be in this upcoming one! If you could take another picture then, I'd love to use it as a promo...
And for all of you, here's a little sneak preview of what next week will bring ;)
(http://imagebin.org/index.php?mode=image&id=72108)
An underground tower-cap farm, from Ashencrown by 7Ē Nickel.
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 18, 2009, 09:36:12 am
Awesome...
EDIT: The plants are amazing, however I think they could use some dark borders as, for example, the tower cap.
Post by: kingpocky on November 18, 2009, 09:42:08 am
Take this otherwise excellent cow: (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/stonesense/images/8/84/Cow.png) It's too big, it's feet would get cut off :(
(http://lparchive.org/LetsPlay/Boatmurdered/Thread%202/Update%202/2001123637358601929_rs.jpg)
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 18, 2009, 09:44:41 am
I am really looking forward to the coored floor tiles (the map room and disco really dont look like much till then) and the waterwheel will really help the dwarfhammer ship pop.
Sidenote: the dwarfhammer should have fortification/arrow slits where the ballista are but it looks like solid walls. I will also need to stop using corners for entrances. Looks like the dwarfs have to squeeze through the corners to get out of their rooms ::)
Thanks again for all the hard work on this. Great stuff!!!!
Yoj
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 18, 2009, 11:03:14 am
Doublepost with another one. This is a preliminary version, I'm not so sure about this one. If you can't recognise what it is, I've done something wrong.
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr231823_stonesensewillow.png)
My girlfriend works with trees and forced me to change the green palette on this one.
EDIT: I'm having trouble getting the colors right. Does anyone know of a good guide to leaf colors?
I've never done pixel art before this point but from what i know and what you will see in others works is that pixel art is vibrant and exaggerated in colour.
A basic rule with colour is cool dark colours push things back and warm bright colours pull things forward. With pixel art you have to apply this double fold to give shape to such tiny objects. Another tip i can give is that pixel art is often a representation of an object or character and correct proportions, shape and colour are pushed aside for an easier understanding of what your spite may be.
I did a willow tree myself to give you an idea of how warm and cool colours can convey shape easily. my sprite could still use some work but its good enough for now.
(http://i34.tinypic.com/2v94wnq.jpg)
So I tried my hands at a willow again and this is the result:
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr234892_stonesensewillow2.png)
The reason I'm still doing this, even though Seuss has already posted a beautiful willow, is that I'm trying to closely mimic Solifuge's style. I was afraid Seuss' willow wouldn't fit the general style of Stonesense, and thus I made this. This is a little mockup that shows how it would look like ingame. Please note I put my birch there, too ::)
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr234894_stonesensemockup.png)
I'm willing to draw other trees, so please let me know whether you like it or not. Seuss, I'm not trying to step on your toes, and I love your plants! It's just that I like drawing stuff for Stonesense.
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2009, 11:13:35 am
Suess' colors match (and I think this style matches more personally... but that isn't the point)
Jiri I think you need to use a more vibrant color.
Edit addition: I am refering to the willow. >.>
Post by: jonask84 on November 18, 2009, 11:14:08 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 11:38:03 am
Well while Jiri's Tree matches the style
Suess' colors match (and I think this style matches more personally... but that isn't the point)
Jiri I think you need to use a more vibrant color.
Edit addition: I am refering to the willow. >.>
Yeah, agreed. Pixel art works well when vibrant colors are expressed or even exaggerated, and that seems to be the look that Stonesense is going for. Willows aren't particularly pallid either. The shape and lines are very good, though.
edit: oh, this is basically what Seuss already said, but it still applies this time around.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 18, 2009, 11:40:06 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 11:48:15 am
Speaking of those odd corners, perhaps Stonesense could afford to recognize such things? I.e. if a solid tile has two empty diagonally adjacent neighbors, it becomes a different shape? The total amount of sprites required would be (presuming mirroring): 3 for single corners, plus 2 for any two adjacent corners, plus 1 for opposite corners, plus 3 for triple corners, and a rounded column. A lot of spriting work, but maybe it'd be worth it?
This kind of contextual tile augmentation, for lack of a better term, is definitely what visualizers are going to move toward. It's already being used for ramps, but waterfalls could use it to appear to "cling" to any nearby surfaces, and patchy floor tiles like sand could use it to look less blocky.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 12:40:29 pm
Just when you thought it was okay to go back into the cave...*squint* ...that...looks familiar. But my suspicion is wrong. carry on.
Giant Cave Spider!
(http://i45.tinypic.com/nq9qb4.png)
Post by: dyze on November 18, 2009, 12:40:44 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 12:57:39 pm
The way it's coded, you would need the cursor as a global or passed in to Block.draw and/or the spritegetter to pick.
Beyond that, half-drawing (all on current level, all within Manhattan distance _ of cursor on level, all within _ crow distance of cursor on level, all[not that useful]) is the matter of a conditional within the wall (and ramp) drawing code, and getting a new cut-down sprite for all of those (!)
So it's more artwork (hah) than codework. Should be some way to make the spritefetch take no more operations (maybe an addition/multiplication each and a ternary) with such a consideration- though, the crow distance would be more expensive
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 01:38:08 pm
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 18, 2009, 01:39:17 pm
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr235029_stonesensewillow3.png)
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr235031_stonesensemockup2.png)
Post by: Neonivek on November 18, 2009, 01:47:07 pm
Your old willow tree was like early next gen graphics... Brown
It needs a small tweek though to be perfect. It is good enough to be a final version as it is so it isn't all that important.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 01:54:00 pm
Post by: Aldaris on November 18, 2009, 02:00:30 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 18, 2009, 03:22:07 pm
You lose a lot of distinction in small-scale work, unless you add boarders, especially when a foreground sprite matches the color of the surface that it's on.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/Crop.png?t=1258575573)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/BoarderedCrops.png?t=1258575519)
Post by: fifth angel on November 18, 2009, 03:36:06 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/Crop.png?t=1258575573)Awesome!
Post by: winner on November 18, 2009, 04:03:39 pm
Post by: dyze on November 18, 2009, 04:13:36 pm
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4884/carp.gif)
Post by: Julius Clonkus on November 18, 2009, 04:21:47 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 04:23:20 pm
BORDERS
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 18, 2009, 04:39:49 pm
Solifuge: Great improvements to the plants, I can't wait to see them in the works.
Post by: dyze on November 18, 2009, 04:52:22 pm
Looks good. But what if there's no adjacent wall? Then the saw above the stack of logs would be floating in mid-air.
yeah, guess i'll have to do something about the saw ;D
the wooden floor is only a part of the mockup background, just something i thought looked good.
on second thought, you could actually render the floor into the workshop tiles, thus marking the boundraries of the workshop, while also getting rid of any square marker lines, as in the current ones.
Post by: Seuss on November 18, 2009, 05:08:52 pm
So I tried my hands at a willow again and this is the result:
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr234892_stonesensewillow2.png)
The reason I'm still doing this, even though Seuss has already posted a beautiful willow, is that I'm trying to closely mimic Solifuge's style. I was afraid Seuss' willow wouldn't fit the general style of Stonesense, and thus I made this. This is a little mockup that shows how it would look like ingame. Please note I put my birch there, too ::)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm willing to draw other trees, so please let me know whether you like it or not. Seuss, I'm not trying to step on your toes, and I love your plants! It's just that I like drawing stuff for Stonesense.
Vibrant colours like this?
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr235029_stonesensewillow3.png)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
First off my tree doesn't relay obey the rules of the tiles and shouldn't be used as such. It was more a practise sprite to test my abilities. Its also not the kind of willow tree you guys are probably used too.
I personally think your second sprite was better, that new vibrant green one is just too sickening and if you try to constrain your trees to what trees are already in the game you will end up will a bunch of sickly blobs. What you need to do is take that older sprite and add yellow to the highlights and deep aqua to the shadows. Generally a good way to pick a pallet is to find a mid tone that is the colour of you object then you highlight will be that colour with a bunch of yellow in it and more pale. Your shadow's should be your mid tone with a more rich blue in it and obviously darker. 2 reasons we use more yellow/warmer colours for highlights is because warmer colours pop out more and most light is yellow (sun, fire, electric lights) If however your light source wasn't a warm colour then you would use that colour to mix with your mid tone but if in doubt use yellow. Shadows are kinda similar but your only doing it because cool colours reseed. This can be used as much or little as you like it comes down to style.
If I seem hard on you its because your so close and if you can get this right you will start to amaze yourself. ;)
I might make a tutorial/example later if people need it. :-X
Added solid-color boarders to Seuss' fantastic crop sprites, and a mockup comparison to show why:
You lose a lot of distinction in small-scale work, unless you add boarders, especially when a foreground sprite matches the color of the surface that it's on.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/Crop.png?t=1258575573)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/BoarderedCrops.png?t=1258575519)
Personally I'm not a big fan of dark borders on environmental things, I feel it detaches its from the ground. Things with higher importance should have darker borders and I just don't value the shrubs to be that important. However if the vast majority want it I'll have to comply.
Stop using that tree. >:(
done some work on a carpenters shop
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4884/carp.gif)
I'm digging that that workshop. 8)
Just the above mentioned floating saw. As far as flooring goes I recommend uploading it without and when/if we make a decision about workshop boundaries its an easy fix. However I understand if you want to know that decision sooner than later.
Post by: LegoLord on November 18, 2009, 05:16:58 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 05:19:13 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 18, 2009, 05:22:41 pm
Post by: strich on November 18, 2009, 05:26:14 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 05:30:17 pm
Post by: Dante on November 18, 2009, 05:33:40 pm
I noticed that the pictures that people were uploading to the Creature Sprites page weren't really lining up with the words, so I threw the Animals section into a few tables. I really hope this is okay; I don't know the etiquette on this kind of thing. If it's not, let me know--I wouldn't want to make the same mistake twice.Ah good, I was getting frustrated and stopped uploading stuff because it would always break the pattern of the lines.
I also added some sprites I've been making.
As much as im against just scaling down real images of animals with a few edits, any sprite is better than no sprite ;)
Some of those animals, while nice, clash with the overall style of the game... but Id have to see them in action first I guess. Though they likely arn't the finished product.Yeah, basically, I always play in savage areas for the challenge, and use any animal the elves and humans can bring me, so my forts in stonesense are just big messes of purple question marks. I'd rather replace those with at least-low quality sprites scaled from google images, in the absence of high-quality sprites.
If they're too useless, I can just keep them to myself to mod my stonesense sprite sheet with though.
Post by: Vince on November 18, 2009, 05:49:52 pm
I almost hate to ask, but does anyone know about the feasibility of applying the border procedurally?
Hm, I don't think that would be much of a problem when it happens while loading all the tilesets.
You could make every pixel black that is a) transparent and b) has a non-transparent neighbour
I don't think that would take long, it is O(nē), though - but it only happens once you say "I want borders" and the tilesets don't have that much pixels.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 18, 2009, 05:56:19 pm
it is O(nē), thoughit's O(n) if you allot 2n space. (eight or four checks per pixel is still O(n)), where n is pixels
It's like a game of life. ;)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 18, 2009, 06:05:05 pm
Hm, I don't think that would be much of a problem when it happens while loading all the tilesets.
You could make every pixel black that is a) transparent and b) has a non-transparent neighbour
I don't think that would take long, it is O(n²), though - but it only happens once you say "I want borders" and the tilesets don't have that much pixels.
Yeah, that's the quick and dirty way, but if you compare Solifuge's bordered version, the approach is more nuanced: 1) it's not uniformly black, and 2) the border doesn't surround every pixel, especially not diagonally.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/5byddc.png)
Additionally, the aesthetics of the border may depend on the background. I'm not sure how the above border looks against mud, stone, etc.
I know this is a lot of fuss to make over a few shrub sprites, but I do think the question of borders is going to have to be addressed in some coherent way.
Post by: Neruz on November 18, 2009, 06:06:36 pm
Post by: Vince on November 18, 2009, 06:12:00 pm
it's O(n) if you allot 2n space. (eight or four checks per pixel is still O(n)), where n is pixels
It's like a game of life. ;)
Ah, you're right - I thought about nxn bitmaps: "It's square? So it's O(nē)!" :D
Yeah, that's the quick and dirty way, but if you compare Solifuge's bordered version, the approach is more nuanced: 1) it's not uniformly black, and 2) the border doesn't surround every pixel, especially not diagonally.I thought about just checking 4 times, anyway, not diagonally.
Additionally, the aesthetics of the border may depend on the background. I'm not sure how the above border looks against mud, stone, etc.
And about the color - maybe setting it to a 50-50 mix of black and background-pixel?
I think that could work - it won't look as good as hand made, but I believe it should look rather well.
Post by: Dante on November 18, 2009, 07:26:09 pm
(http://i48.tinypic.com/28talc9.png)
(Blizzard man, fire man, gremlin, iron man, mud man, magma man, troglodyte, ogre, cyclops)
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on November 18, 2009, 07:37:54 pm
Post by: Deon on November 18, 2009, 08:30:09 pm
IMO I would border the top half of each plant - That way it appears to blend with the ground as it should at the bottom and we'd keep the detail of the top. WIN WIN. ;)I am for this idea.
Post by: kaypy on November 18, 2009, 08:34:17 pm
done some work on a carpenters shopSome things to bear in mind with workshops:
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4884/carp.gif)
Parts of the workshop are impassable. This should be reflected in the sprite. (Thats where to stick tables and stuff)
The workshop needs enough graphics that we can rotate the view.
As mentioned elsewhere, you shouldn't rely on surrounding walls.
Also, in order to change the workshop style drastically, we will probably need a critical mass of workshops in the new style.
For bonus points, there should be parts of the workshop that can be swapped out to indicate what material it is made of.
Oh, and the more sprites that can be used in multiple workshops, the less sprites that need to be done.
Post by: jarathor on November 18, 2009, 09:15:05 pm
First is 7c Nickle's human male (I might've used a slightly less new version by mistake).
The second one is the tweaked dwarf baron, third is a just-for-fun color swap, and last is the original.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2latzt3.png)
What say ye? It could use a little work, but would that be close enough to be worth fixing up all of my sprites?
EDIT: Also, should I go ahead and add in my dwarves that are already uploaded to the Dwarf Sprites page on the wiki?
Post by: jonask84 on November 18, 2009, 09:21:20 pm
done some work on a carpenters shop
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4884/carp.gif)
That's a very nice carpenters shop! Impressive!
As for whay kaypy said' he's right. I just have two things to add:
The workshop needs enough graphics that we can rotate the view.Yup, esp that workbench would have to have a back side :)
Oh, and the more sprites that can be used in multiple workshops, the less sprites that need to be done.That's only right to an extent, kaypy. While we do want some reuseability, we don't want all our buildings to look generic either. I don't think any of those are too spesific, that's the amount of detail we would want. right?
Edit: Oh and we could do that hanging saw, right kaypy, with your awesome config system (NeighbourIsWall) ;D
Post by: Xandrin on November 18, 2009, 10:30:59 pm
done some work on a carpenters shop
Oh my...that's just plain beautiful.
Jonask - Thanks for the support! My spider could use a colour change maybe. Black is appropriate for a spider but his features don't stand out.
I vote for a pseudo-black border...It makes the sprites "pop" visually.
For people adding things to the sprite wiki: PLEASE do not delete ANY user's work (no panic, nothing has happened yet)...regardless of whether you think it's crappy/too big/too pointy etc. Add a new column to the table and place your sprite in the new column.
For people making sprites: Some of the sprites currently on the wiki are...subpar. Jonask has already pointed out that some of them need fixing or could better fit the current stonesense style. Please do not be upset if your sprite is not selected for the release. Your efforts are still appreciated and we still love you :D.
I recommend Sphr's 16x16 sprites as a base for your endeavours and a springboard for innovation. http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Sphr/gfx_set (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/User:Sphr/gfx_set)
Post by: 1138 on November 18, 2009, 11:09:49 pm
@jarathor: I love the colorswapped dwarf. A clean, lily white dwarf just looks wrong to me.
Post by: Truean on November 18, 2009, 11:16:20 pm
1.)Gem Windows-
I've noticed that there is a window sprite (or there was). it was listed a few pages back and it was absolutely wonderful.
When I put in a sapphire gem window, I got the yellow box placeholder.
Perhaps the same sprite could be used for the gem windows as the glass windows?
2.) Bins and barrels-
So long as stockpiles are in game, having bins and barrels seems like a nice, logical way to handle them. I know I end up making hundreds of these furniture items in any case. Currently my stockpiles don't show up, or if they do, then they are yellow placeholder boxes.
3.) Basic install instructions on the wiki-
Yes, it's obvious in hindsight that the program needs winrar, but a simple "install" entry in the wiki will make it a lot easier for the end user. (I realize DF is not easy for anyone but yeah :) ).
4.) "child" animals-
These throw off the visualizer and show up as question marks. perhaps if people just made a smaller version of any animal they come up with, this issue will be solved. The same concern arises with undead but that is a more complex issue.
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 19, 2009, 12:44:16 am
Hey all, I was curious about how much it would take to make my dwarves look at least a little more like 7c Nickel's humans, so I did a little test with the baron:I really love what you've done, but I cant help but feel you need to combine the two newer dwarves.
First is 7c Nickle's human male (I might've used a slightly less new version by mistake).
The second one is the tweaked dwarf baron, third is a just-for-fun color swap, and last is the original.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2latzt3.png)
What say ye? It could use a little work, but would that be close enough to be worth fixing up all of my sprites?
EDIT: Also, should I go ahead and add in my dwarves that are already uploaded to the Dwarf Sprites page on the wiki?
I'm thinking the nice pale skin with the nice dark beard. They'll contrast better than the yellow and pink. :)
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 19, 2009, 01:17:53 am
(http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1919/sshumanity.png)
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on November 19, 2009, 02:06:52 am
a simple way might be putting a splash of light behind them, nothing too showy, but enough to make them more noticable.
some people are also fond of dwarves with horns so I think the capabilities of legendaries should be left in though of course, probably with a placeholder or somesuch.
Post by: Solifuge on November 19, 2009, 02:10:49 am
[ ][ ][ ]
[X][ ][ ]
[X][ ][X] Carpenter's Workshop
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSBarsMockup.png?t=1258614427)(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSBars.png?t=1258614411)
Upright Metal Bars as Fences, Jail Cells, etc. (Also Grates and Cages.)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 19, 2009, 02:17:02 am
Post by: Xandrin on November 19, 2009, 02:18:07 am
I'm thinking the nice pale skin with the nice dark beard. They'll contrast better than the yellow and pink. :)
I have done the pale skin/dark beard recolour for you...Result is 3rd in lineup. His beard isn't quite as dark as the "middle east" inspired dwarf:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/1o4mbs.png)
Recolours take almost no time, so once we get a cohesive, complete set we can fiddle with preferences later...who knows, maybe we'll have Stonesense graphics sets :D.
a thought just popped into my head, how are we going to signify legendary units?
a simple way might be putting a splash of light behind them, nothing too showy, but enough to make them more noticable.
some people are also fond of dwarves with horns so I think the capabilities of legendaries should be left in though of course, probably with a placeholder or somesuch.
What about a simple recolour of their clothing? Go from purple to blue?
Solifuge - I just wet myself...the carpenter shop recolour is especially awesome. Does it change depending on which material I build my shop from?
Post by: Solifuge on November 19, 2009, 02:29:13 am
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 19, 2009, 03:43:04 am
And that last screenshot is dead sexy. Can't wait for next release :)
Post by: Rose on November 19, 2009, 03:54:05 am
they are no in isometric perspective
however, as it is understandably hard to draw those, I will make no more complaints.
(the spider, on the other hand, is perfect)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 19, 2009, 04:01:23 am
I have only one problem with many of the unit's drawn here:
they are no in isometric perspective
That's pretty much par for the course for this style of graphics. Plus, there's the additional benefit that the units could get repurposed for a future high-res DF graphics pack.
Post by: Grif on November 19, 2009, 05:59:33 am
And the recolouring by Xandrin really did hit the spot for me, the white with brown bear dwarf seems just perfect.
Also loving the inspiration for the dwarf hats, based on the 3ps design right?
http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comics/081.png
Post by: Typoman on November 19, 2009, 07:07:49 am
can't wait to see the next release.
i'd contribute, but my pixelart is well not very good at all, not to mention i'm no good at matching styles.
Post by: Rose on November 19, 2009, 07:10:56 am
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article934.asp
Post by: dyze on November 19, 2009, 08:36:20 am
done some work on a carpenters shop
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/4884/carp.gif)
That's a very nice carpenters shop! Impressive!
As for whay kaypy said' he's right. I just have two things to add:The workshop needs enough graphics that we can rotate the view.Yup, esp that workbench would have to have a back side :)
thanks man! looks like solifuge completed a carpenters shop too, so if you still need any of my sprites, gimme a shout here in the thread and i'll separate and put some more polish on them.
Oh, and the more sprites that can be used in multiple workshops, the less sprites that need to be done.That's only right to an extent, kaypy. While we do want some reuseability, we don't want all our buildings to look generic either. I don't think any of those are too spesific, that's the amount of detail we would want. right?
Edit: Oh and we could do that hanging saw, right kaypy, with your awesome config system (NeighbourIsWall) ;D
yeah that was my thought too, dont we want more or less as visually unique workshops as possible, so you can distinguish them at a mere glance? and also for pure graphical diversity.
i guess i'll leave the saw as is for now then, if you had some magic fix for that :D
solifuge: nice shop, i really like the lathe, but what is the red/green thingy? i think it would look better without that. i do think my workbench has the upper hand tho, yours reminds me a bit of a piano or an organ :)
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 19, 2009, 09:12:23 am
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr235583_stonesensealder.png)
Seuss, thanks for your advice. I've tried using the palette from your willow, but it ended up looking too bright... I guess I still have to learn how to work with colours more effectively. :-\
Post by: kaypy on November 19, 2009, 09:52:13 am
Also, we still have the Siege Engines to have anything at all for. Don't make me use my attempt- it was worse than the Still...
Post by: dyze on November 19, 2009, 11:27:03 am
So I tried to make an alder and this is what came up:
(http://sklad.obrazku.cz/obr235583_stonesensealder.png)
the sprite itself is nice, but its a bit dense for an alder?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
actually i think this goes for a lot of the current tree sprites in ss ..too dense/massive foilage (imo).
Post by: gilrad on November 19, 2009, 11:30:30 am
Anyway, I have an awesome idea (though I am not the most graphically-inclined, so take these as examples only please!)
Action/mood icons!
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2d9ws43.png)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2qvqbky.png)
So the idea is, you press a button or mouse-over a dwarf, and you can quickly see what their current task is, and how they feel.
I never was much of a spriter, though, so I probably can't help with the icons too much...
Anyway, love the project, can't wait until there is more official support for it allowing two-way communication between DF and Stonesense!
Post by: Xandrin on November 19, 2009, 12:55:25 pm
here's an interesting article that may or may not be handy:
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article934.asp
Thanks Japa! This is definitely something we'll have to look at for future releases (even if they're distant future releases)
Since folks seem to be getting an enthusiasm for redrawing the workshops, may I point out how much the current version of the Still sucks.
THIS!
Recolours are dandy, as are multiple variations of the same workshop (Solifuge/Kaypy's Carpenter Shops) but we need a complete, non-crappy version of every workshop & construction in the game.
I propose that if you're working on a sprite, place your forum name inside the sprite table over on the wiki. That way we can reduce/eliminate a situation where two people are creating the same object. When you're done, post your sprite and remove your name. Thoughts?
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 19, 2009, 01:42:10 pm
Once DFHack supports current job it would be a relativity simple matter to render a bubble above the dwarf.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 19, 2009, 01:51:03 pm
edit: Oh, and don't forget moods/status indicators.
Post by: DennyTom on November 19, 2009, 04:12:42 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSBarsMockup.png?t=1258614427)(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSBars.png?t=1258614411)
Upright Metal Bars as Fences, Jail Cells, etc. (Also Grates and Cages.)
Oh my ... few more months of development and we can masturbate while watching this.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 19, 2009, 04:32:14 pm
Post by: Solifuge on November 19, 2009, 05:25:06 pm
here's an interesting article that may or may not be handy:
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/articles/article934.asp
3D Terrain Transitions, though very nice, are going to be a fairly large commitment. I'd like to see all the basic terrain tiles done first, but that would definitely help the appearance of boxyness.
Post by: jarathor on November 19, 2009, 08:29:43 pm
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dnbsqe.png)
I tried to make the color of their clothing match the color each profession has in DF, but I'm not sure it works for all of them. If they all have the same color clothing, they'll each need pretty distinctive tools to differentiate between professions. What do you guys think?
@Jarathor: great work mate, i'd say they are much more in line with the general look put out by Nickel.
And the recolouring by Xandrin really did hit the spot for me, the white with brown bear dwarf seems just perfect.
Also loving the inspiration for the dwarf hats, based on the 3ps design right?
http://www.threepanelsoul.com/comics/081.png
Well, I didn't do it consciously - although looking back at those again, I daresay I do see the resemblance - it's uncanny.
Post by: deepspace on November 19, 2009, 10:05:03 pm
Alright, here's a first pass on the professions for the improved dwarves:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dnbsqe.png)
I tried to make the color of their clothing match the color each profession has in DF, but I'm not sure it works for all of them. If they all have the same color clothing, they'll each need pretty distinctive tools to differentiate between professions. What do you guys think?
They are bald... I dunno if they should be bald. Anyway awesome dorfs.
Post by: Xandrin on November 19, 2009, 10:27:39 pm
Alright, here's a first pass on the professions for the improved dwarves:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/dnbsqe.png)
I tried to make the color of their clothing match the color each profession has in DF, but I'm not sure it works for all of them. If they all have the same color clothing, they'll each need pretty distinctive tools to differentiate between professions. What do you guys think?
They need hats. Here's a magnified version of Sphr's dwarves if you need some hat inspiration. He too used a combination of colour and tools to distinguish sprites. See if you can identify the dwarves:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, the Miner & Woodcutter are the only dwarves that appear to have an "active" stance with their tools raised high. I'm not sure if I like it (I'd need to see it in action I think). They look out of place with the rest of the dwarves in a relaxed state.
Apart from those two minor criticisms...these dwarves look pro.
Post by: jarathor on November 19, 2009, 10:50:02 pm
They are bald... I dunno if they should be bald. Anyway awesome dorfs.
I forgot to give them hair - the one dwarf from my first drafts that I used as a template was bald, and I forgot to fix that. Whoops!
They need hats. Here's a magnified version of Sphr's dwarves if you need some hat inspiration. He too used a combination of colour and tools to distinguish sprites. See if you can identify the dwarves:(I can load up the graphics.txt associated with these if you want)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, the Miner & Woodcutter are the only dwarves that appear to have an "active" stance with their tools raised high. I'm not sure if I like it (I'd need to see it in action I think). They look out of place with the rest of the dwarves in a relaxed state.
Apart from those two minor criticisms...these dwarves look pro.
My only concern with hats is that I might run out of interesting hats - I'll see what I can do to give them all something. Also, I see what you mean about the miner and the woodcutter - in the new version I'm working on, the miner is resting his pick on the ground, and the woodcutter is holding his axe sideways with his other hand. I'll get the new ones up tommorrow.
Post by: Seuss on November 19, 2009, 10:52:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 19, 2009, 11:03:05 pm
Post by: MatrexsVigil on November 19, 2009, 11:15:57 pm
This also means I've started on trees. 8)
Yay! I can't wait to see your trees after your great work on all the plants. =)
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 01:09:39 am
Also, what is a quick way to download all the newest files from SVN ? Thanks.
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 01:24:56 am
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/Sprites -overview of how the sprites work.
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 01:45:33 am
Here's a quick troll.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/pupnl.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/25g6nuo.png)
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 02:08:10 am
they are, however, 32x32
Post by: Seuss on November 20, 2009, 02:13:42 am
So what with the humans then? They are 64x64.
Here's a quick troll.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/pupnl.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/25g6nuo.png)
Those humans are 32x32, just the ones he's showing here are 200% of the original size.
The issue with your troll sprite is he he doesn't fit into the boundaries of the tiles.
Everything that's white in this pic is drawing space everything black is no go zone. (http://i47.tinypic.com/105uzdi.jpg)
More info here. (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/How-To)
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 02:40:45 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 02:59:25 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and made retro 8bit for no reason at all, really.
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 03:09:31 am
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on November 20, 2009, 03:31:05 am
I am practically salivating at the mouth to play around with Stonesense, but am patiently waiting until you guys have a fairly complete database of graphics before I take the plunge.
Who knows, I may even help a bit, though music's more my 'thing'.
Oh yeahhhH!!!!
Post by: Brown Moses on November 20, 2009, 03:44:43 am
Post by: Grif on November 20, 2009, 04:02:40 am
So here's what I did today.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Awesome. How about gem clusters in specific rock types? ;)
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 04:11:53 am
Spoiler: Like So (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 04:13:40 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Since Stonesense only displays a few colors of wall right now, this is what it would look like if it were all marble. The fort is actually limestone with clusters of kaolinite, so it's white with red spots :P
The rest of the stones and gem clusters are tomorrow.
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 04:19:42 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Since Stonesense only displays a few colors of wall right now, this is what it would look like if it were all marble. The fort is actually limestone with clusters of kaolinite, so it's white with red spots :P
The rest of the stones and gem clusters are tomorrow.
if you compile it yourself, it supports all stone types, you just have to edit an XML file.
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 04:21:00 am
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 04:33:36 am
this is what I have for my clay walls:
Code: [Select]
<Wall spriteIndex = 214 fillerFloorSpriteIndex = 27>
<!-- Soil wall -->
<GameID value = 265/>
<Material name="CLAY" />
</Wall>GameID is the tile type, i.e. wall, floor, etc. you can see what it is by placing the stonesense cursor over the tile. it'll say something like Wall:265 Floor:0 Material: "CLAY"(210)
you can have as many GameID lines as you need, in case you want to use the same sprite for different types of walls. The same goes for the Material name lines.
Post by: Neruz on November 20, 2009, 04:54:09 am
in my opinion, water should be transparent.Spoiler: Like So (click to show/hide)
That is beautiful.
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 05:08:36 am
you'd have to type it yourself.
this is what I have for my clay walls:Code: [Select]<Wall spriteIndex = 214 fillerFloorSpriteIndex = 27>
<!-- Soil wall -->
<GameID value = 265/>
<Material name="CLAY" />
</Wall>
GameID is the tile type, i.e. wall, floor, etc. you can see what it is by placing the stonesense cursor over the tile. it'll say something like Wall:265 Floor:0 Material: "CLAY"(210)
you can have as many GameID lines as you need, in case you want to use the same sprite for different types of walls. The same goes for the Material name lines.
So they'd all have to be added to objects.png?
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 20, 2009, 05:09:34 am
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2009, 05:17:20 am
So they'd all have to be added to objects.png?
walls go to objects.png, and floors go to floors.png
also, floors are 4px thick now.
here is a clay set that I'm working on. I think it's good enough for release right now.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Brown Moses on November 20, 2009, 05:27:17 am
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 06:24:13 am
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/updates/list
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 10:20:25 am
(http://i48.tinypic.com/1e9h5d.png)
http://depositfiles.com/files/9r4yaxrt0
Also, where can I look for the list of already COMPLETED sprites?
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 20, 2009, 10:25:14 am
Yoj
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 10:31:13 am
Here's a nightwing:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/11lpjqo.png)
http://depositfiles.com/files/0tziizqcb
(p.s. It's much sharper when in BMP).
Post by: dyze on November 20, 2009, 11:22:27 am
deon: your sprites are really good but imo they need a much bigger color spectrum, they're too 'flat' right now. just compare with the quick tweak i made:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Truean on November 20, 2009, 11:42:01 am
Do we knew when the next release will be out? Will it include Japa's transparent water and various tile settings (which deserve their own praise)? If not, they how can we, end-users include them ourselves?
Furthermore, this is insanely beautiful:
Quote
So here's what I did today.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And also apparently not working but it's Jadael's sprites for various terrains.
Post by: Brown Moses on November 20, 2009, 11:47:43 am
Quote
For A4:
Finish floor and wall config
Properly handle bad DF connections- seems ok?
Post by: Truean on November 20, 2009, 11:48:41 am
Post by: Shrike on November 20, 2009, 12:05:38 pm
But I don't know how difficult that would be; just easier than spriting every possible object and creature.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 01:09:44 pm
...Aargh, retro dither transparency!in my opinion, water should be transparent.Spoiler: Like So (click to show/hide)
That is beautiful.
Post by: Solifuge on November 20, 2009, 01:51:53 pm
So here's what I did today.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
My jaw actually dropped. For about 30 seconds straight.
You used actual photos of the stones for that, if I'm not mistaken; I can see the little whorls in Bauxite where the aluminum is even! I think some distinction is lost with some of the wall types, but for a realistic style, that is damned sexy! Something reminds me of Starcraft's take on Isometric.
Very cool! Do you think you could do ramps with these dimensions?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
in my opinion, water should be transparent.Spoiler: Like So (click to show/hide)
Completely doable, and I can't see many problems with it. Its a pretty easy 8-bit dithering solution, where you dither with the transparent tone instead, much like you did there. I can have that in the build.
Post by: fifth angel on November 20, 2009, 02:13:37 pm
So here's what I did today.Sweet mother of god! *lost consciousness*Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 03:13:43 pm
Quote
oh also, png is a lossless file format so unless you use a huge amount of colors for your sprites, png 8-bit should look more or less exactly the same as a bmp.If you look at the teeth on the small image, they are "blurred". They are OK on your big picture though, so I think that it's a problem of small pictures only.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 20, 2009, 03:31:42 pm
Post by: dyze on November 20, 2009, 03:33:02 pm
If you look at the teeth on the small image, they are "blurred". They are OK on your big picture though, so I think that it's a problem of small pictures only.
are you smoking something? ;D
'my big picture' is a screen dump of your picture. :)
you png on the left, bmp right:
(http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2583/yoo.gif)
seems to me like your browser maybe dithers png files or something..
Post by: BatCountry on November 20, 2009, 03:37:45 pm
Thanks, Dyze, with more contrast it looks much better.Quoteoh also, png is a lossless file format so unless you use a huge amount of colors for your sprites, png 8-bit should look more or less exactly the same as a bmp.If you look at the teeth on the small image, they are "blurred". They are OK on your big picture though, so I think that it's a problem of small pictures only.
Are you using Safari or Google Chrome? Both of those browsers use antialiasing when upscaling an image. I grabbed your PNGs and they're not blurry outside the browser.
Edit for clarity: If you're not at "normal" zoom depth, every element on the page is scaled.
Edit again: Apparently IE8 fuzzifies PNGs too. Turns to mush at varying zoom depths.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 04:13:28 pm
Completely doable, and I can't see many problems with it. Its a pretty easy 8-bit dithering solution, where you dither with the transparent tone instead, much like you did there. I can have that in the build.Problems: You can only have one "transparent" surface at a time.
I reaaaally hope you use real transparency. Or option thing.
Dither Transparency Enemy
Post by: Footkerchief on November 20, 2009, 04:19:07 pm
in my opinion, water should be transparent.Spoiler: Like So (click to show/hide)
Completely doable, and I can't see many problems with it. Its a pretty easy 8-bit dithering solution, where you dither with the transparent tone instead, much like you did there. I can have that in the build.
Water would also be a good place to experiment with darkening as a means of conveying depth. It would be odd if you could see the ocean floor perfectly from above water.
Post by: Solifuge on November 20, 2009, 04:21:12 pm
Post by: Deon on November 20, 2009, 04:31:30 pm
Quote
Edit for clarity: If you're not at "normal" zoom depth, every element on the page is scaled.This.
I somehow failed to notice that I am browsing bay12games at 90% zoom instead of 100%. I was too used to it :). Thanks for clearing it out.
Quote
for now, Dither transparency is an easy way to implement it with the current engine, especially with a new release pending. :PI hope it's going to be included :). I like the transparent water.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 04:32:27 pm
Dithering is dead-easy on per-pixel basis, for 50% ((x+y%2)?draw: don't draw)
Transparency is less dead-easy. Software implementation:
newgreen=(oldgreen*drawingalpha)+(drawinggreen*(1-drawingalpha));
where drawingalpha is the alpha channel as fraction with 1 = wholly transparent, 0 = wholly opaque. IF they're as 8-bit fields, then
newgreen=(oldgreen*drawingalpha)+(drawinggreen*(255-drawingalpha))>>8
for each color basically.
also, i heard gem windows were apparently lost somewhere along the line- I KNOW someone made sprites for 'em..
Post by: tomblifter on November 20, 2009, 04:51:25 pm
So here's what I did today.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You are my new God. Odin sits at your right, and Thor sits at your left.
Post by: Fieari on November 20, 2009, 05:01:39 pm
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 20, 2009, 05:04:13 pm
For the wonderful stone types, I hope they can be adjusted to tile nicely at some point.
Post by: dyze on November 20, 2009, 05:51:21 pm
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6874/still.gif)
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 05:53:38 pm
If someone wants to do that, I can adjust the textures on any that need it to make them tile seamlessly.
EDIT:
Oh, other idea I had, what about something like detail textures? A collection of 'markings' that can be randomly chosen from and blended with the tiles to create more variation.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 06:15:31 pm
Looking at that awesome collection of stones, I can't help but think of something. Some of those textures are going to be heavily affected by repetitiveness. Maybe it would be possible to randomly flip the tiles when there's a lot of them clustered together? I'm thinking of floors, specifically. That, or the floors need a more connectable pattern, which will be hard for natural stone images.Doesn't feel that bad for me, and I just ran them through a tester to look at.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4834/stonetestleft.th.png) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/stonetestleft.png/)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6008/stonetestright.th.png) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/stonetestright.png/)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3874/stonetestlr.th.png) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/stonetestlr.png/)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 20, 2009, 06:16:51 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 20, 2009, 06:40:15 pm
Post by: Seuss on November 20, 2009, 06:48:29 pm
a still, almost finished
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6874/still.gif)
Pay attention to where your light source is. All sprites so far have there light coming somewhere from the top left.
Other than that its coming along nicely.
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 06:50:45 pm
Oh, other idea I had, what about something like detail textures? A collection of 'markings' that can be randomly chosen from and blended with the tiles to create more variation.
You know the way DF has a VARIED_GROUND_TILES give you a bunch of different floor tiles for a given floor material? They all show up in SS as different floor types. Even if you have VARIED_GROUND_TILES turned off, apparently. Japa has been using this to do a floor that avoids too much by repeating effects (has that been posted here?)
We may have to rig up something ourselves to achieve the same effect for wall tiles- seed a pRNG with x,y,z. (Or x,y,z,time for fluids...)
Post by: dyze on November 20, 2009, 07:03:08 pm
Doesn't feel that bad for me, and I just ran them through a tester to look at.
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/4834/stonetestleft.th.png) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/stonetestleft.png/)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/6008/stonetestright.th.png) (http://img689.imageshack.us/i/stonetestright.png/)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3874/stonetestlr.th.png) (http://img29.imageshack.us/i/stonetestlr.png/)
try tiling them several tiles in both directions. i agree with the opinion that they need some work to smooth the tiling better, maybe not all of them, but quite a few.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 07:10:02 pm
aaaand the walls all have it coming from viewerward-up-left?
Pay attention to where your light source is. All sprites so far have there light coming somewhere from the top right.
Post by: gilrad on November 20, 2009, 07:11:59 pm
The reason why this might be important is, if we are going to make random surfaces to break the tiling effect up a bit, it would be incredibly time consuming to simply render all those different tiles by hand for any given change, forcing us to make fewer changes. Plus this allows us to do other things, like create random textures in addition to the random surfaces, which would increase the number of floor tiles by around 16 times, but with a script the person who implements this won't have to render 16 different sets of floor tiles.
Also, is it possible to get the raw files for those floor tiles? That way other people can work on getting them to tile better. One thing I think they could use would be some more outline, so they fit more with the artistic theme of the rest of the graphics.
edit--upon further inspection, it looks like the method used (take a photo of a material, apply a texture to it) would only really work for the rough, smooth, and engraved aspects. For the block and stone walls and floors, the texture pattern would have to be broken up (this is easy with the block pattern; just rotate and jumble up four squares, but for the stone walls and floors, something more random will be necessary).
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 07:15:27 pm
Whether we can use Alpha Transparency vs. Dithering Transparency depends entirely on the resources required by each. I'm not quite a Competent Programmer myself, so I'll leave that to the Experts to answer... for now, Dither transparency is an easy way to implement it with the current engine, especially with a new release pending. :PCurrently we dont have Alpha Transparency, so Dithering Transparency is the best we have...
Also, Dithering transparency has some nice features for water: since the pixels line up perfectly, you have the effect that something is either behind water or its not. Which is less problematic than each individual block of water having its own alpha effect. (Cause different blocks will line up strangely- I should do a mockup to [a] make it obvious what I'm saying and [b] make sure I know what I'm talking about)
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 07:17:52 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 20, 2009, 07:18:56 pm
(http://i45.tinypic.com/vx0mz4.png)
Besides for general cleanup, I'm probably going to come up with some more hats/hairstyles before these are totally finished. Also the chisel the stoneworker is holding along with the woodworker's axe need to be more distinct.
Does the miner's left arm look too strange where it is? I couldn't quite get it where I wanted it.
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 07:20:26 pm
also, i heard gem windows were apparently lost somewhere along the line- I KNOW someone made sprites for 'em..They're back in now
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 07:21:33 pm
I noticed that those floor tiles are basically a material surface with a filtered texture surface (rough, brick, etc) on top... Is it possible to create a script that applies the texture to the floor tile surface and then render it to a .png file?I would be surprised if that were not how it was done.
Also, enables us to use the lready-nice engraved-stone graphics as another overlay.
Jadael: do you mean a 3x3x3 cube? want to make sure what's desired before I tinker too much w/ my scripts
Jarathor: Um....the arm looks fine. The highlight on the right side of the beard is screaming at me though. Also, a little too much outline power. brb with humor.
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 07:22:46 pm
Does the miner's left arm look too strange where it is? I couldn't quite get it where I wanted it.The miner looks fine to me, but every time I see the jeweler I think someone's tantrummed and given him a black eye...
Also, is it possible to get the raw files for those floor tiles? That way other people can work on getting them to tile better. One thing I think they could use would be some more outline, so they fit more with the artistic theme of the rest of the graphics.Note that an edge outline is programatically applied to the top of walls, so that they can merge together side by side
squares, but for the stone walls and floors, something more random will be necessary).
Post by: dyze on November 20, 2009, 07:28:30 pm
dyze: that's just each tile (except the isolated soil tiles) once, blocked in the arrangement they already were in. It would take quite a bit more work to test all 200+ tiles indicated for proper tiling (making a 3x3 of each?) Hmm...
a few of the most obvious ones:
(http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/2003/tileo.gif)
seuss: thanks for pointing that out, i felt there was something that a bit odd ..too tired to pixel :/
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 07:32:11 pm
a still, almost finishedYaaaaay!
Let me know when its ready to go 8-)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 07:36:06 pm
dyze: Don't forget vertically tiling. I think I'll make script repeat a tile x*y*z. Easy enough t'do.
Jarathor, your fisherdwarf made me take a few minutes to make(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2554/aristodwarf.png)I overdid the monocle, I think.
Post by: Seuss on November 20, 2009, 07:48:48 pm
aaaand the walls all have it coming from viewerward-up-left?Fixed. Sometimes my inner child takes over a little too much. :-[
Jadael's tiles are nice but in there current form they don't fit with Stonesence's style. They are to dark and to detailed causing them to demand to much attention for a background environment tile. All current wall tiles have roughly 3 shades to a side keeping them simplistic yet distinguished. However what he has contributed is still very useful.
Post by: jarathor on November 20, 2009, 07:53:58 pm
I knocked out that highlight on the sides of the beards - since you pointed it out, it was
I also toned down most of the outlines, mainly for the outlines against the skin and the lighter clothes.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/r73hy1.png)
Jeweler's loupe looks fine to me.Brilliant! I'm wondering if the nobels should remain purple now...
dyze: Don't forget vertically tiling. I think I'll make script repeat a tile x*y*z. Easy enough t'do.
Jarathor, your fisherdwarf made me take a few minutes to make(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2554/aristodwarf.png)I overdid the monocle, I think.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 08:13:25 pm
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/5477/coalsmoothtest.png) ...Looks like most/all of them are going to have this vertical tiling difficulty, due to the subtle grade from dark to light vertically.
Smooth shale does not, though. Hmm...how do I want to do the mass-test. Do I want to do the mass test.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 08:53:15 pm
Jadael: Your tiletests are ready.
CobaltKobold, could you do that again but stack each type at least three tiles deep both ways?Thumbnailed...
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1088/allstonetest.th.png) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/allstonetest.png/)
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 08:55:32 pm
And someone can maybe go over them by hand to draw them with just three shades to fit with the pixely style of the rest of the graphics.
Although, from what I've seen in my tests, the 'realistic' background isn't that distracting because it's all very soft, with no outlines. It all blends together, sort of like how a painted background behind a cel shaded character doesn't distract event hough it's more 'detailed'.
Post by: strich on November 20, 2009, 08:56:53 pm
Its not a big thing to do, so just get it in there now.
Post by: Neonivek on November 20, 2009, 09:00:20 pm
Post by: Neruz on November 20, 2009, 09:02:26 pm
Hooray for scripting! 7290 selects, cuts, and pastes automatically.
Jadael: Your tiletests are ready.
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1088/allstonetest.th.png) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/allstonetest.png/)
A couple of the ones that don't tile very well aren't a problem (like raw gold veins) as they don't come in large quantities anyway.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 20, 2009, 09:24:27 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 09:51:48 pm
Quote from: #dfhack
[19:20:14] <SevenCentNickel> What kind of horrible escher fort are you building?
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/th_eschertower2.png) (http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/eschertower2.png)
Behold: Eschertower, the Architecture of Headaches!
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 09:57:05 pm
It occurs to me that these tiles won't look near as good with the 4-thick "filler floor"...they're calibrated for a perfect/1px thin floor. (As are my mockup scripts..) so yeah. I'm not sure how to deal with the thickfloors that make it non-isometric.
Oky, here's my take, now that I've looked a bit more.Hooray for scripting! 7290 selects, cuts, and pastes automatically.A couple of the ones that don't tile very well aren't a problem (like raw gold veins) as they don't come in large quantities anyway.
Jadael: Your tiletests are ready.
(http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/1088/allstonetest.th.png) (http://img38.imageshack.us/i/allstonetest.png/)
It looks like (natural, smoothed, engraved, constructed(blocks), constructed(stones))
Many(many!) smoothed tiles (and the sands) have tiling issues with a dark/light contrast. The soils look ok in this regard.
Some of the block-constructed(col4/9) ones are too dark under the lower stone- silver ore in particular.
all the gold ore tiles are problematic in tiling.
Cassiterite-engraved looks ugh.
Bismuthinite looks funny, but I think it's supposed to- and none of it is tiling problems, anyway, so you're good.
Copper Ore looks a little dull to me- it's Native Copper, after all.
Gold Ore looks like copper to me- but don't take this and the prior as word. I'm no geologist.
Missing Soils: Silty Clay Loam, Pelagic Clay, Calcareous Ooze, Siliceous Ooze
Missing Ores: Native Aluminum, Raw Adamantine
Missing Economic: the other coal (only one is there, there's Bituminous and Lignite in DF)
Missing Other (important ones, to me, bolded): Slate, Cinnabar, Cobaltite, gypsum, talc, jet, puddingstone, petrified wood, graphite, brimstone, kimberlite, realgar, orpiment, stibnite, marcasite, sylvite, cryolite, ilmenite, rutile, chromite, pyrolusite, pitchblende, borax, olivine, hornblende, kaolinite, serpentine, orthoclase, microcline, mica, saltpeter, alabaster, selenite, satinspar, anhydrite, alunite
Present: 61. Yet to do:43.
Also needed: Ramp and stair (edit: and floor) forms, in carved and constructed and constructed block forms.
(The ramps are the nasty part.)
in re: Eschertower: Hey, I see some ramps with issues in those walkways.
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 10:01:01 pm
in re: Eschertower: Hey, I see some ramps with issues in those walkways.
Quote from: Stonesense/TODO.txt
For later versions:
Better ramp handling- Big lookup table?
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 10:01:55 pm
EDIT: And yeah, copper ore really is peach and green, not brown as DF displays. The green is the copper.
Post by: kaypy on November 20, 2009, 10:04:32 pm
Can you make both raw constructed ramps and block constructed ramps? And both raw and block stairs? In DF, I mean.I dont think stonesense can tell the difference between raw constructed and block constructed at this stage, but yeah, you can use blocks or raw stone for the materials
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 20, 2009, 10:12:02 pm
Jadael: I forgot fortifications! Carved and constructed and constructed(block). That'd fill out (d)esignations and (b)(C)onstructions materials anyway...
argh. Did you notice the shift from 32x32 to 32x36? your first set looks like it won't work with current stonesense just yet...and I would need to figure something strange out to get Solifuge's wacky "filler floor" deal working with my mockup scripts.
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2009, 10:33:23 pm
For gems... Probably we just need a few colors (6... 12... 15 I think) and then they can be layered over other graphics.
Does DF track what rock the gems are residing in, or would we have to base it on nearby walls?
Post by: kaypy on November 21, 2009, 12:06:58 am
Also, Dithering transparency has some nice features for water: since the pixels line up perfectly, you have the effect that something is either behind water or its not. Which is less problematic than each individual block of water having its own alpha effect. (Cause different blocks will line up strangely- I should do a mockup to [a] make it obvious what I'm saying and [b] make sure I know what I'm talking about)Post mockup revised position statement: Given alpha transparency, doing water in a simple 'draw the water sprite at ~30% alpha' should work fine- edging effects are not really noticeable against the noise of the water textures.
Post by: LegoLord on November 21, 2009, 12:12:12 am
Does DF track what rock the gems are residing in, or would we have to base it on nearby walls?I know that sometimes, when you construct a wall on a stone floor and deconstruct it, the floor tile will be set to whatever the main layer stone is - so that, at least, could probably be worked out, if it can't be done for gems in clusters and veins.
Post by: The13thRonin on November 21, 2009, 04:43:45 pm
Post by: Greiger on November 21, 2009, 06:00:00 pm
It seems to reliably crash when viewing human towns in adventure mode, and there are some artifacts in unexplored sections of the map. It also only shows areas that have been seen by the adventurer.
But under most circumstances you can see an adventurers surroundings in stonesense.
Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
The above screenshot was taken in adventure mode at an "adventurer house" (small buildings quickly made in dwarf mode for adventurer use and storage.) The ? north of the house is my adventurer, the one south of it is some guard from a nearby town.
Not complaining at the lack of bug free adventurer support, just pointing out how it sorta works for any other folks who enjoy adventurer mode like I do.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 06:08:05 pm
Post by: Jadael on November 21, 2009, 06:11:31 pm
Rhyolite, chalk, coal, obsidian, and basalt.
Alright, did the new tall tiles, and confirmed that all the bump maps seamlessly tile. Some of the actual textures need to be redone though, like gold ore and bismuth. Now I just get to start over using the new shapes! :D
I'll do ramps tomorrow, hopefully I can figure out a way to do them as quickly as the walls.
EDIT:
Have we thought about spiral staircases so that stacks of stairs make sense?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/staircases.png)
Post by: KillHour on November 21, 2009, 07:07:14 pm
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/new_blocks.png)
Rhyolite, chalk, coal, obsidian, and basalt.
Alright, did the new tall tiles, and confirmed that all the bump maps seamlessly tile. Some of the actual textures need to be redone though, like gold ore and bismuth. Now I just get to start over using the new shapes! :D
I'll do ramps tomorrow, hopefully I can figure out a way to do them as quickly as the walls.
EDIT:
Have we thought about spiral staircases so that stacks of stairs make sense?
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/staircases.png)
You only need the smooth version of the fortification, FYI.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 07:36:58 pm
Presumably we'll get to use them as murder holes sometime.
Else, *round of applause*
Killhour: No, you can build fortifications. Thus, rock and block too.
(You can also convert built walls to fortifications...but this should be identical to built)
edit: Stairs can be up stairs, down stairs, or up/down stairs. (All this really means is you need a thickfloor downstair, an upstair in the normal part, and a floor for the up-only stair) Spiral's probably good, but consider what it looks like with a creature standing there.
Post by: Jadael on November 21, 2009, 08:05:05 pm
EDIT: Can you shoot vertically through a fortification?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 08:26:20 pm
Item (phantom spider silk thread, in this case) dumped from above falls into (no fakefloor to stop) but not through.
So, bottom is solid, evidently?
Post by: Jadael on November 21, 2009, 09:07:40 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 21, 2009, 09:33:36 pm
There are three bone carver ideas there: one with a long bone, one with a humanoid skull, and one with a deer skull (or similar). Which is the most clear?
(http://i50.tinypic.com/1z35nkk.jpg)
Post by: Deon on November 21, 2009, 09:45:31 pm
Post by: Xandrin on November 21, 2009, 10:07:56 pm
This is what I managed to get done for tonight; Making graphics for each and every one of the professions is going to be hard.
There are three bone carver ideas there: one with a long bone, one with a humanoid skull, and one with a deer skull (or similar). Which is the most clear?
(http://i50.tinypic.com/1z35nkk.jpg)
Xandrin cancels Study: Interupted by pixellated dwarves
I vote for the long bone. Although a skull is mildly amusing (I recall a legendary bone carver that made a helm from the skull of one of his fellow artisans) the bone seems to just...fit. Maybe make it a bit more cartoony and obviously bone-like? At 1:1 it sorta just looks like a white stick.
All this sprite work brings me back to the days before anyone knew what the hell a polygon was, and hours spent (read: wasted) playing Final Fantasy or A Link to the Past :D.
These are neat to look at and see how different people interpret the dwarves. Though there are 3 dwarves in brown with bandanas and i'm not sure what they're supposed to be.
Back to work on my lab.
Post by: Jadael on November 21, 2009, 10:34:19 pm
Now with cel-shading.
Post by: Seuss on November 21, 2009, 10:38:47 pm
This is what I managed to get done for tonight; Making graphics for each and every one of the professions is going to be hard.
There are three bone carver ideas there: one with a long bone, one with a humanoid skull, and one with a deer skull (or similar). Which is the most clear?
(http://i50.tinypic.com/1z35nkk.jpg)
Your insane to do every single dwarf profession :o
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/cel_shading.png)
Now with cel-shading.
If that's your direction your going to have to go in and do it properly, by hand.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 21, 2009, 10:45:14 pm
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/cel_shading.png)Urk. :-X
Now with cel-shading.
SOSOSOSOSOmuch better without.
Your insane to do every single dwarf profession :oIt's pretty often done...
Post by: KillerClowns on November 21, 2009, 10:46:13 pm
EDIT: I just realized I haven't yet complimented the Stonesense team on their awesome work yet! While I'm pretty damn used to reading ASCII, Stonesense has proven an excellent tool in teaching my disciples (e.g. those I've introduced to Dwarf Fortress) how to translate ASCII into something comprehensible. And show off my most deranged megaprojects.
EDIT 2: Reading through this thread more thoroughly, I see a lot of people have had glacial problems; I'm pretty sure it's non-standard (carved/smoothed) ice that does it.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 22, 2009, 12:30:57 am
...I wonder how Stonesense handles void squares.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 22, 2009, 01:44:16 am
When ice or a glaicer melts, anything on top of it collapses.
It is already known that if something collapses onto a floor, the squares below where the collapse happened become glitched, possibly void (I believe this is how a collapse can punch through the bottom of a pool for instance)
The squares becoming suddenly glitched is probably the same bug in both cases.
Its a df bug.
LN
Post by: Neruz on November 22, 2009, 04:11:24 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 22, 2009, 04:24:54 am
Post by: Jadael on November 22, 2009, 05:05:22 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 22, 2009, 06:20:37 am
Too bad LW doesn't have an easy way of making isometric shots.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/ofpuon.png)
Still needs some borders, but they can be done with a simple overlay cubemap.
Post by: kaypy on November 22, 2009, 06:36:07 am
Just bringing a bug report: sculpted (read:engraved) ice floors and ceilings cause Stonesense to crash. Not sure about smoothed, haven't tested yet.Yeah, we have a bunch more sanity checking in the SVN, so the next version will be less fragile to ice-wierdness
Is the next update coming soon?Real soon now. I think the biggest remaining requirement for 0.4 is cornering Jonask on IRC and saying "Are we there yet?" over and over till he agrees to release a version just to make me shut up.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 22, 2009, 06:38:53 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2pqrync.png)
I think this one looks better. Except the top of the full block and floor ar dark for some reason. The stone's gabbro, btw.
Edit: Giving the light a 60o downward angle seems to have fixed the issue. Now I don't know whether or not enabling smoothing was a good idea.
With smoothing:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2jed5c3.png)
Without smoothing:
(http://i50.tinypic.com/2luz729.png)
Post by: Rose on November 22, 2009, 06:40:19 am
Post by: jarathor on November 22, 2009, 11:28:04 am
Spoiler: Spoilered for size (click to show/hide)
Next up is the nobles, and then the female versions of everything, and then the military.
Is there anything that needs to be clearer? Or is there any profession that I missed?
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 22, 2009, 12:51:37 pm
The professions look very good and nicely fit the theme. Is it really important to have a female version? Would be nice to have but not essential I would think. Great work!!!
Maybe as just a placeholder you could just re-color the terrain textures to get close to a complete set (really want to show off my disco floor and grand map room)
Yoj
Post by: Footkerchief on November 22, 2009, 01:19:18 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 22, 2009, 01:30:25 pm
3D rendering is a nice way to do this stuff, since it's fast and pretty and produces immediate results. Exactly how it'll look in the game is still a question though.
Post by: Xandrin on November 22, 2009, 02:13:48 pm
Whew, I did all of the common professions (i.e. none of the nobles, etc.).I think that the thresher and miller's stalks of wheat that they are holding need to be changed, along with the bellows that the furnace operator is holding.Spoiler: Spoilered for size (click to show/hide)
Next up is the nobles, and then the female versions of everything, and then the military.
Is there anything that needs to be clearer? Or is there any profession that I missed?
Lookin' good Jarathor. I think you're missing the engineer, mechanic, siege operator, pump operator and siege engineer. They're red coloured in the game.
Add your dwarves to the wiki (you don't need an account) http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarf_Sprites (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarf_Sprites). It has a complete list of all the dwarf professions. Alternatively if you provide a list of what each dwarf is, i can tell you which sprites you're missing and post them to the wiki myself. Keep up the awesome work sir.
Post by: Peteģ on November 22, 2009, 03:12:13 pm
Stonesense runs and tells me it's looking for DF - as expected - but ends throwing an exception once I hit R with a 40d16 fort loaded up. Same with starting DF first, then Stonesense.
Using MSVC2008 here.. any blatant errors I'm obviously making?
Post by: jonask84 on November 22, 2009, 03:36:05 pm
Post by: BatCountry on November 22, 2009, 04:12:29 pm
OK, I'm probably just being stupid here. I grabbed the latest Stonesense source, grabbed Allegro as binaries (didn't work), grabbed Allegro as source (and suggested minimum DX libs) and somehow compiled it all myself (C++ Compiling = Voodoo).
Stonesense runs and tells me it's looking for DF - as expected - but ends throwing an exception once I hit R with a 40d16 fort loaded up. Same with starting DF first, then Stonesense.
Using MSVC2008 here.. any blatant errors I'm obviously making?
It does that if you try to compile from the included .sln file. You need to grab cmake and then run the appropriate build batch file from the build folder for it to compile correctly. Why? I don't know, but I had the same problem. Probably linker options.
Steps to compile from scratch:
1) Grab and install CMAKE
2) Download trunk from SVN.
3) run "generate-MSVC-2008.bat" (or whatever's appropriate for your version) from the "build" folder.
4) Observe that it created a "build-real" folder.
5) Open the "stonesense.sln" in that folder.
6) Clean then Build the program.
7) Copy the DLLs, the "buildings" folder, the images, the XML files (UpgradeLog.XML is not necessary) and your compiled "stonesense.exe" into your stonesense folder.
8) Have fun.
Post by: Jadael on November 22, 2009, 04:55:25 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Alright, sheet one of three(ish).
If someone wants to redraw the bump maps to be a more pixel arty style, I can use them directly on this sheet.
I'm making some isometric reference objects too, since people seem to have so much trouble with the perspective.
EDIT: Isometric reference:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/isometric_reference.png)
The top row is all as tall as the box will allow. Notice most of them do *not* fill the entire "safe area". This is because of how the perspective works. The current beds, for example, are taller than the cube even though they're still inside the safe area.
The second row is half height. (Except for the teapot and dwarf.)
Post by: Peteģ on November 22, 2009, 06:14:01 pm
OK, I'm probably just being stupid here. I grabbed the latest Stonesense source, grabbed Allegro as binaries (didn't work), grabbed Allegro as source (and suggested minimum DX libs) and somehow compiled it all myself (C++ Compiling = Voodoo).
Stonesense runs and tells me it's looking for DF - as expected - but ends throwing an exception once I hit R with a 40d16 fort loaded up. Same with starting DF first, then Stonesense.
Using MSVC2008 here.. any blatant errors I'm obviously making?
It does that if you try to compile from the included .sln file. You need to grab cmake and then run the appropriate build batch file from the build folder for it to compile correctly. Why? I don't know, but I had the same problem. Probably linker options.
Steps to compile from scratch:
1) Grab and install CMAKE
2) Download trunk from SVN.
3) run "generate-MSVC-2008.bat" (or whatever's appropriate for your version) from the "build" folder.
4) Observe that it created a "build-real" folder.
5) Open the "stonesense.sln" in that folder.
6) Clean then Build the program.
7) Copy the DLLs, the "buildings" folder, the images, the XML files (UpgradeLog.XML is not necessary) and your compiled "stonesense.exe" into your stonesense folder.
8) Have fun.
^-- Although I still find it quite of a hassle to install so many little tools just to compile one program, this should none the less become part of "ON COMPILING.txt".
The finished Stonesense.exe ended up in the /Debug and /Release folders, from where I copied them into the base folder as obtained via SVN - the Release version crashed while scrolling the loaded map (upon subsequent starting, crashes immediately - see spoiler for probably useless Call Stack), the Debug version runs flawlessly. Awesome.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jarathor on November 22, 2009, 09:55:41 pm
I do have them - I can see now that they just aren't as red as they should be. They're under the guy with the grey cog/wheel/gear in his hand. I'll change the color before I put them up on the wiki. I'll throw up a profession list that corresponds to what I've got tommorrow.
Lookin' good Jarathor. I think you're missing the engineer, mechanic, siege operator, pump operator and siege engineer. They're red coloured in the game.
Add your dwarves to the wiki (you don't need an account) http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarf_Sprites (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Dwarf_Sprites). It has a complete list of all the dwarf professions. Alternatively if you provide a list of what each dwarf is, i can tell you which sprites you're missing and post them to the wiki myself. Keep up the awesome work sir.
The professions look very good and nicely fit the theme. Is it really important to have a female version? Would be nice to have but not essential I would think. Great work!!!Thanks! Well, the female versions aren't essential, but once I make a template it'll be pretty simple to do them all.
Yoj
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 22, 2009, 11:17:32 pm
Post by: Xandrin on November 23, 2009, 12:43:04 am
Don't suppose anyone's done catapult or ballista yet?
Nope :). Does Stonesense have 3 states for the catapult/ballista? I know in ascii you can see them empty, loaded and firing but i'm not sure if DFHack can tell the difference. In either case, they're open to be sprited.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 23, 2009, 12:45:52 am
Post by: Seuss on November 23, 2009, 12:53:23 am
Treeeessss
Nope :). Does Stonesense have 3 states for the catapult/ballista? I know in ascii you can see them empty, loaded and firing but i'm not sure if DFHack can tell the difference. In either case, they're open to be sprited.
Stonesence adds stuff as it goes along. If we had the sprites for the 3 states then it will be added in. Shrubs weren't coded till I did them and same goes for these trees.
Post by: Xandrin on November 23, 2009, 01:05:53 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/262wd8n.jpg)
Treeeessss
SEUSS! I...you...how...THOSE ROCK.
Seriously...holy <expletive deleted>. All of those sprites only took you like, 4 days!
My wolf still looks retarded, his eyes are too far apart.
Stonesence adds stuff as it goes along. If we had the sprites for the 3 states then it will be added in. Shrubs weren't coded till I did them and same goes for these trees.
But AFAIK Stonesense can only see what DFHack can see. So if DFHack can't tell the difference between loaded/unloaded then Stonesense can't either...so only 1 sprite gets displayed.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 23, 2009, 01:19:00 am
Well, making the ballistae in their...12...states would incentivize coding it in, yeah.
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/2554/aristodwarf.png): I mandate it!
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 23, 2009, 01:28:02 am
I was asking because my next megaproject to celebrate windmills being in the next version of stonesense is a dwarven airship... be nice if ballistae and catapults showed up.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 23, 2009, 02:09:45 am
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 23, 2009, 05:44:06 am
LN
Post by: kaypy on November 23, 2009, 06:51:41 am
Post by: Firnagzen on November 23, 2009, 07:01:39 am
Post by: Vidar on November 23, 2009, 09:09:56 am
...Why?
BECAUSE! ;D
Looks like the next version is going to be awesome. Any chance we get to see it, say, this week?
Post by: dyze on November 23, 2009, 11:16:43 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/262wd8n.jpg)
Treeeessss
now THAT is some high quality sprites, hats of to seuss!
Post by: peterix on November 23, 2009, 11:28:39 am
There's a good chance it will be released today :)...Why?
BECAUSE! ;D
Looks like the next version is going to be awesome. Any chance we get to see it, say, this week?
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 23, 2009, 11:58:40 am
This has given me a whole new lease on Dwarf life!!!
Thank you much.
Yoj
Post by: Vince on November 23, 2009, 12:50:30 pm
(Will it have more stone types?)
Post by: Neonivek on November 23, 2009, 12:52:23 pm
That is GRRRREAT! :D
(Will it have more stone types?)
Thank you Tony the Tiger
Post by: kingpocky on November 23, 2009, 12:59:41 pm
Post by: Vince on November 23, 2009, 01:05:47 pm
That is GRRRREAT! :D
(Will it have more stone types?)
Thank you Tony the Tiger
I was referring to the "Dwarf Shorts", but i like Frosties as well :D
Post by: Neonivek on November 23, 2009, 01:14:21 pm
Though apperantly I've gone crazy and thought they Dwarves always went "That's just great"
Post by: tefalo on November 23, 2009, 03:02:56 pm
(http://i49.tinypic.com/262wd8n.jpg)
*paralyzed in awe*
Post by: jocan2003 on November 23, 2009, 03:06:29 pm
Post by: Deon on November 23, 2009, 04:12:17 pm
Post by: Jadael on November 23, 2009, 04:26:46 pm
Most importantly, will it have the beautiful stones Jadael made, or do we have to wait until later?
It'd be great if they went ahead and used some of my stones, but since I've only done about a third of them so far they'd most likely only be divided into like, four categories like they are now, now a unique graphic for every stone.
Any decision/thoughts on stairs yet? I can make stairs for every stone type once I know what shape to make them. Specifically: Spiral or straight? (Spiral is less detailed, but makes more sense when stacked vertically). Will there be thickfloor "down stairs" that join up with "up stairs"? Do we want up stairs and up/down stairs to look different?
Post by: arkraven on November 23, 2009, 06:08:47 pm
Did you get the LATEST version or the old alpha 3 build which crashed at many things?Hey how do you do that exactly? do you download it off the site?
Post by: jocan2003 on November 23, 2009, 06:56:48 pm
Post by: Deon on November 23, 2009, 07:01:13 pm
Post by: jonask84 on November 23, 2009, 07:18:06 pm
From all of us on the Stonesense team: Enjoy!
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 23, 2009, 07:25:32 pm
Oh gods the teapot. (Properly the Utah Teapot, I read?) Only if you actually render it, imo. Gotta get it RIGHT....Why?
BECAUSE! ;D
But I support its inclusion if you do. It's the in-joke of in-jokes in CG.
Jadael: spiral stairs...actually, I think some kind of cornered spiral staircase would be best, since you need something that repeats nicely. But I'm having issues trying to conceptualize out how to get it to work in the fat/thin format...
edit: The windows release.
Post by: Truean on November 23, 2009, 08:25:19 pm
Happens when I load DF and continue my game with the new stonesense. Huh?
(creating new world)
EDIT: Works fine after I create a new world; not on the old ones though.
Post by: kaypy on November 23, 2009, 08:40:36 pm
Post by: BatCountry on November 23, 2009, 08:42:23 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 23, 2009, 08:42:50 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on November 23, 2009, 08:54:59 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 23, 2009, 08:58:52 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on November 23, 2009, 09:02:21 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 23, 2009, 09:08:16 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: tefalo on November 23, 2009, 09:39:24 pm
Is there a way to disable the name tags? It looks quite silly. xD
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deon on November 23, 2009, 09:39:55 pm
To disable names, it's "N". Pretty easy to find out.
Post by: Bluerobin on November 23, 2009, 09:41:28 pm
First, all of my dead shrubs are showing up as furniture. Funny, but odd:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Second, a little bit ago someone posted a picture of a whole fortress (an Escher inspired mind-bending one if memory serves). How was this achieved? A bunch of screenshots stitched together? Modification of the StoneSense init file?
Thanks and keep up the awesome work everyone!
Post by: LegoLord on November 23, 2009, 09:46:22 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 23, 2009, 09:52:25 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Only thing that doesn't show on mine is fish. :) and gorillas.
Post by: Dante on November 23, 2009, 10:09:13 pm
I thought mine was buggy for a moment, but then I realised I was playing with heavily modded vegetation, so there were these patches of magma and water and random beds and tables and things wherever there was a shrub that's not in the vanilla game.
Window-breaking picture
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is there a way of getting around this with modded games?
Post by: jarathor on November 23, 2009, 10:34:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: Wait, I broke the transparency.
I can't manage to bring it back - little help?
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 23, 2009, 10:53:46 pm
EDIT: nevermind found the wiki entry on how to do it after searching more
Post by: Bluerobin on November 23, 2009, 11:10:25 pm
Wow, this is greatstuff.
I thought mine was buggy for a moment, but then I realised I was playing with heavily modded vegetation, so there were these patches of magma and water and random beds and tables and things wherever there was a shrub that's not in the vanilla game.
Ah this is probably my problem too, I just didn't notice because they were just "dead shrub"s instead of whatever the modded vegetation was. No complaints from me now!
Post by: kaypy on November 23, 2009, 11:23:18 pm
*Most* sprites you can configure using various xml files.
The main exception is the trees and shrubs. I'm not able to check right now, but I believe theres a hardcoded set of trees, and that shrubs are loaded based of shrub index. If you can get the other stuff out of the way, then just adding sufficient shrub graphics should work
Transparency problems are caused by having both transparency and pink. Either change all the pink to transparent, or flatten the image to get rid of the transparencies
The escher tower was both the biggest screen size I could organise, and combining 3 screenshots after the fact.
Post by: Truean on November 24, 2009, 01:45:35 am
It was something with my custom orc mod. It works outside of stonesense, but not with. Worth it all the same. This might be something similar to how everyone's dead shrubs are showing up as furniture. Who knows *shrugs*.
(P.S. Anything is possible with a heavily modded alpha game. Both DF and stonesense are alpha, as are all mods).
Post by: Deon on November 24, 2009, 02:40:13 am
Also please, make a proper horse :D.
P.S. Also I see that my troll and nightwing are approved! Thank you, Jarathor.
Post by: Deon on November 24, 2009, 03:09:11 am
(http://i50.tinypic.com/14tlw5v.png) (http://i50.tinypic.com/2zrow9d.png)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 24, 2009, 03:13:11 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 24, 2009, 03:25:14 am
Post by: Rose on November 24, 2009, 03:55:04 am
Either change all the pink to transparent, or flatten the image to get rid of the transparencies
unless I'm behind the times, transparent doesn't work at all yet. needs to be only pink.
Post by: Deon on November 24, 2009, 04:03:26 am
Deon, do you have an exceptionally high-contrast monitor or something? Not trying to be snide, but your sprites always have a washed-out look to them -- the colors are muted and off. If it's a deliberate stylistic choice then my bad.Maybe 100% contrast and brightness have something to do with it >.>
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 24, 2009, 04:26:49 am
Post by: Vidar on November 24, 2009, 04:29:29 am
It's still an awesome feature, though. Can't wait for the nest version.
KealGotDwarves: If you can't download it from DFFD, go to the google code page. You'll never kill that server.
Post by: cooz on November 24, 2009, 04:30:24 am
http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense.rar
(Yes, it's V4, or any next version in future)
Post by: Rose on November 24, 2009, 04:31:13 am
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 24, 2009, 04:32:45 am
KealGotDwarves: If you can't download it from DFFD, go to the google code page. You'll never kill that server.I have it already, I was just posting because lots of people are trying to download off link on first page and getting gateway errors.
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 24, 2009, 05:11:54 am
Jonas, any chance of a cavalier release sometime soon?
Post by: kaypy on November 24, 2009, 06:28:38 am
(1) make a new copy of objects.png, called furniture.png
(2) go into the buildings directory
(3) For each piece of furniture that is turning up as a shrub, edit the appropriate buildings.xml file, adding file="furniture.png" to the building entry, so eg for the table.xml you would change the line
<building name="Table" gameID="table">
to read
<building name="Table" gameID="table" file="furniture.png">
(4) Now that those sprites are being loaded from a different file, you can replace the versions in the original objects.png with shrub sprites.
This should work for anyone with less than 60 custom shrub types...
Post by: Markavian on November 24, 2009, 06:35:10 am
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4952-ultragear
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: kaypy on November 24, 2009, 06:55:57 am
http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Spritesets/carpentry1 (http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Spritesets/carpentry1)
Any thoughts on how well this works would be appreciated (it wont be very good for anything other than buildings yet...)
Post by: jarathor on November 24, 2009, 07:21:01 am
I've tried both of the above - nothing seems to be working. It seems that MS paint has bested me once again. Can somebody else fix that image?Either change all the pink to transparent, or flatten the image to get rid of the transparencies
unless I'm behind the times, transparent doesn't work at all yet. needs to be only pink.
Post by: Vince on November 24, 2009, 07:54:08 am
Maybe it was abducted long ago and DF just doesn't show it anymore if that happens, but keeps it in the memory?
Post by: kaypy on November 24, 2009, 08:00:11 am
I loaded an old savegame and there was a baby in Stonesense - but none in DF on this tile or anywhere near it. Ghost baby? Or what happended there? It had a name and everything.Can you turn on debug mode and tell us what flags the baby has? I have a few weirdly behaving creatures with the lostLeaving tag, but hadn't quite gotten to the point of hiding em all
Maybe it was abducted long ago and DF just doesn't show it anymore if that happens, but keeps it in the memory?
Post by: kaypy on November 24, 2009, 08:07:10 am
I've tried both of the above - nothing seems to be working. It seems that MS paint has bested me once again. Can somebody else fix that image?http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/newcreatures.png
Post by: Vince on November 24, 2009, 08:58:30 am
Can you turn on debug mode and tell us what flags the baby has? I have a few weirdly behaving creatures with the lostLeaving tag, but hadn't quite gotten to the point of hiding em all
"historical" and "on ground"
Post by: bartavelle on November 24, 2009, 09:11:55 am
"historical" and "on ground"
Historical baby ?
Post by: kaypy on November 24, 2009, 09:22:43 am
Post by: Vince on November 24, 2009, 09:49:22 am
It a baby, so its named, right? Can you find out where it really is? I'm wondering now if their location gets ignored when they get hauled around...
I've got only one "Likot" and that's a child by now. Sonesense says "Job: Baby", though.
That child appears as a regular child, where it should be, too.
In legends mode I found a second "Likot" that was abducted. It seems my guessing was correct. :D
Post by: Deon on November 24, 2009, 10:08:37 am
(http://i45.tinypic.com/avgc3s.png)
If this style is alright, I will finish all professions. Is it good for us?
Post by: dyze on November 24, 2009, 11:01:44 am
Post by: Myroc on November 24, 2009, 11:05:09 am
What am I doing wrong?
Post by: kaypy on November 24, 2009, 11:18:52 am
What am I doing wrong?Bad decompression? Check the directory structure- do you have a buildings directory with an index file and a bunch of xmls?
Post by: hughesdylan on November 24, 2009, 11:19:06 am
Post by: dyze on November 24, 2009, 12:08:00 pm
old vs new:
(http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/453/sc1y.png)
http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/5930/objects.png
edit: just got an idea. how about som regional variety to some of the nature sprites? like the water would be more dark blue in a cold region. or the grass, like in a desert region, make the sprite have slightly 'less straws', and a bit more yellowish color.
edit2: there really seems to be a memory leak (maybe you aldready know). been having the task manager up for the last 10 min, df is paused, and stonesense has been untouched for the duration. memory load grows at a very steady pace. started out nice at 17mb or so, now its up to 103mb. and ive more or less only embarked, so cant blame the dwarves :D
Post by: slink on November 24, 2009, 12:33:06 pm
I can look at the surrounding terrain complete with wildlife, but every time I creep up on the areas with the Dwarves, I get the crash. I have tried it with the game paused and with the auto reload time set to 0.
WinXP SP 3
3.8 GHz Pentium 4
2.0 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
DF 40d
What other information do you need?
Edit: I can look at the crowded area if I go there with CF and use F to get there in Stonesense. It seems to be one particular view that is upsetting Stonesense. Let me try to capture the information for you graphically.
Post by: Truean on November 24, 2009, 12:48:35 pm
6 GB Ram
500 GB Hard Drive
Intel Centrino 2 Quad Core (yes I know it only runs DF off one)
The only other sticker on this thing has "To reduce risk of electric show or serious injury [sic]". Yes, the warning label is misprinted on my HP. I suppose I would want to reduce my risk of electric show.
[I will purposefully try to overload my system and force a crash to see if this issue can be duplicated].
Post by: BatCountry on November 24, 2009, 12:49:44 pm
I am getting crashes whenever I try to look at the area where most of my Dwarves are at. I can look at the fortress with your previous version with no problem. I have installed the new version in its own directory so there is no interaction with the old version. After the crash, I have to use Task Manager to get rid of the application because it is still in memory.
I can look at the surrounding terrain complete with wildlife, but every time I creep up on the areas with the Dwarves, I get the crash. I have tried it with the game paused and with the auto reload time set to 0.
WinXP SP 3
3.8 GHz Pentium 4
2.0 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
DF 40d
What other information do you need?
Are you using any mods? If you could upload your map somewhere, I'm sure it'd help out too.
Post by: slink on November 24, 2009, 01:02:23 pm
In DF:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In prior version of Stonesense:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can see the courtyards in the new version if I am on their level in DF. I can see the depot and that interior in the new version as long as I have absolutely none of that open area above the courtyard visible. As soon as I move just one arrow key towards the open area, it crashes.
Post by: slink on November 24, 2009, 01:07:00 pm
I am getting crashes whenever I try to look at the area where most of my Dwarves are at. I can look at the fortress with your previous version with no problem. I have installed the new version in its own directory so there is no interaction with the old version. After the crash, I have to use Task Manager to get rid of the application because it is still in memory.
I can look at the surrounding terrain complete with wildlife, but every time I creep up on the areas with the Dwarves, I get the crash. I have tried it with the game paused and with the auto reload time set to 0.
WinXP SP 3
3.8 GHz Pentium 4
2.0 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
DF 40d
What other information do you need?
Are you using any mods? If you could upload your map somewhere, I'm sure it'd help out too.
Yes, I am. Can you read a 7z-compressed file if I upload that to my ftp?
Edit: NM, I will use RAR. The world.sav is already as compressed as it can be made.
Edit #2: http://www.drislink.com/slink/dwarffortress/StonesenseCrash.rar
It contains the save directory and the raws object directory. Let me know, please, when you have gotten this so I can remove it. It's a largish chunk. ;)
Post by: dyze on November 24, 2009, 01:46:09 pm
(http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/7026/still.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 24, 2009, 01:53:14 pm
Post by: Rathen on November 24, 2009, 02:07:45 pm
Post by: slink on November 24, 2009, 02:11:20 pm
Holy shit; are you THE "slink" from ye olde startopia forums?!
:D Yes I am. That was a great game, wasn't it? My mods don't work so well on the newer machines, though. The AI runs so much more quickly that some of the limits have to be changed so the player has a chance.
Post by: Myroc on November 24, 2009, 03:47:08 pm
Directory as in folder? Because no, there is not.What am I doing wrong?Bad decompression? Check the directory structure- do you have a buildings directory with an index file and a bunch of xmls?
Edit: Aaaah, now I see, for some reason Winrar did not export the 'buildings' directory to my new Stonesense folder. -_-
Post by: hughesdylan on November 24, 2009, 03:47:45 pm
Post by: dyze on November 24, 2009, 04:09:39 pm
(http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/4047/stockpile.gif)
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/5930/objects.png
also, i was thinking, for small land patches like these
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7134/grass1.gif)
wouldnt it be possible to do something like this
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1531/grass2.gif)
by simply overlaying the grass texture, then cut from it using masks like these
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1038/grass3.gif)
Post by: Ixoran on November 24, 2009, 05:03:44 pm
a stab at the stockpile sprite
NON SPOILER IMAGE Of LARGENESS
also, i was thinking, for small land patches like these
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/7134/grass1.gif)
wouldnt it be possible to do something like this
(http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/1531/grass2.gif)
by simply overlaying the grass texture, then cut from it using masks like these
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/1038/grass3.gif)
I like the mask effect a whole bunch, but it honestly took me a full minute to find those stockpiles... Maybe they need to be thicker?
Also, wouldn't it be better if the entire stockpile just had one edge line instead of beang broken into boxes? Though that's a Jonask&Solifuge thing I believe.
Post by: The Doctor on November 24, 2009, 05:06:44 pm
>_>
Just a minor thing, otherwise I love you for this.
Post by: dyze on November 24, 2009, 05:08:23 pm
I like the mask effect a whole bunch, but it honestly took me a full minute to find those stockpiles... Maybe they need to be thicker?
Also, wouldn't it be better if the entire stockpile just had one edge line instead of beang broken into boxes? Though that's a Jonask&Solifuge thing I believe.
well i was going for a non intrusive approach with the stockpiles ..guess i succeeded ;D
a single dotted outline for the whole stockpile would probably be the nicest, but yeah thats coding stuff.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 24, 2009, 05:57:40 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 24, 2009, 06:16:05 pm
Have you thought about moving the files into their own directories? It's a bitch trying to find the actual application in that mess.Seconded. art, source, libs?
Post by: jarathor on November 24, 2009, 08:02:33 pm
Thanks! What was I doing wrong?I've tried both of the above - nothing seems to be working. It seems that MS paint has bested me once again. Can somebody else fix that image?http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/newcreatures.png
All that's left to do is the military and fix the colors on the nobles.
Speaking of the military, here's a first draft of some dwarves sans weapons:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2mqivcp.png)
I'm thinking that no-helmet should be a recruit, steel-without-horns the soldiers, steel-with-horns legendaries, and the gold-with-horns for champions (maybe with an added cape). While the adamantine-clad dwarves are cool, I'm not sure how they'll mesh with everything else. What do you guys think?
Post by: Sowelu on November 24, 2009, 08:34:38 pm
I'd suggest other colors of military dwarves might be useful for other branches of the military, IE, royal guard.
Post by: Retro on November 24, 2009, 08:35:57 pm
Speaking of the military, here's a first draft of some dwarves sans weapons:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2mqivcp.png)
I'm thinking that no-helmet should be a recruit, steel-without-horns the soldiers, steel-with-horns legendaries, and the gold-with-horns for champions (maybe with an added cape). While the adamantine-clad dwarves are cool, I'm not sure how they'll mesh with everything else. What do you guys think?
While I like it, I've always personally thought that there should be a slower visual build from recruit to champion - the full-face helm is so intimidating that it seems like overkill on a soldier / hero. Maybe: Recruits helm-less, soldiers with a hat-like helmet, heroes with a half-full face mask and elites keep that no-face mask?
And royal guards looking like something different altogether.
Post by: Jadael on November 24, 2009, 08:38:11 pm
edit: just got an idea. how about som regional variety to some of the nature sprites? like the water would be more dark blue in a cold region. or the grass, like in a desert region, make the sprite have slightly 'less straws', and a bit more yellowish color.
DF has 'dry grass', which Stonesense already has a graphic for. And once all the stone types have their own graphic, every area will have a distinct look to it.
Already, just the different soil types (soil, clay, and sand, at the moment) and varying tree/plant growth in different areas gives all my forts a pretty unique feel.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 24, 2009, 08:43:40 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 24, 2009, 09:15:26 pm
@jarathor: Something that was done in a few graphics sets and I think would help here... Military dwarves were usually depicted as facing the opposite direction of civilian dwarves, likewise for humans and elves. It helps when creatures are small to differentiate them at a split second's glance.This is a good idea - I'll make sure and do that.
While I like it, I've always personally thought that there should be a slower visual build from recruit to champion - the full-face helm is so intimidating that it seems like overkill on a soldier / hero. Maybe: Recruits helm-less, soldiers with a hat-like helmet, heroes with a half-full face mask and elites keep that no-face mask?
And royal guards looking like something different altogether.
You're right - the full helm is a little drastic for just a plain soldier - I like your peogression, and it won't be too hard to do - just make a couple new helmets.
Also, I've finished female versions for all of the professions:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Xandrin on November 24, 2009, 09:19:03 pm
Speaking of the military, here's a first draft of some dwarves sans weapons:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2mqivcp.png)
I'm thinking that no-helmet should be a recruit, steel-without-horns the soldiers, steel-with-horns legendaries, and the gold-with-horns for champions (maybe with an added cape). While the adamantine-clad dwarves are cool, I'm not sure how they'll mesh with everything else. What do you guys think?
I'm with Retro on this. I would opt for a "full-helm"-less military. I prefer looking at a face than a pair of eye slits.
That being said...the recruit looks spot on. The standard fare soldier dwarf should have a metal cap or similar with armor that's a bit more metallic than shown above. Elites should get some nice epaulets (shoulder armor) and a horned, openface helm to make them look like the impassable half-height walls that they are. Champions can be a recolour of elites like you have above, gold might look snazzy or garish, hard to tell.
Don't forget fortress guards and king's guards, you'll need a variant for those too. Likely these will look more polished. Your King's guards will be in shiny ceremonial armour rather than something battle-tested.
Post by: jarathor on November 24, 2009, 10:34:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jocan2003 on November 24, 2009, 10:57:10 pm
Post by: The Doctor on November 24, 2009, 11:16:24 pm
Post by: Deon on November 24, 2009, 11:27:48 pm
And "policemen" approach for fortress guards would be nice too. Usually they are not heavily armored (I give all my best armor to military) and never use lethar weapons (I try to arm them with wooden ones or without weapons at all) to avoid casualties between civillians, thus they seem to be pretty close to
Post by: Deon on November 24, 2009, 11:48:15 pm
Old:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2nbaljt.png)
New:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/33kf7tj.png)
I need some feedback because I don't want to be unapproved AFTER I make all sprites :).
Post by: The Doctor on November 24, 2009, 11:50:50 pm
They're hippies! D:
But good otherwise! :D
Post by: Xandrin on November 25, 2009, 12:19:40 am
So, hmm... Because nobody has commented on my elves I thought they were not good enough. So I started to rework their model.
Old:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2nbaljt.png)
New:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/33kf7tj.png)
I need some feedback because I don't want to be unapproved AFTER I make all sprites :).
I'm a fan of the new body styles. Much improved over the old ones. The current Human sprites have their hands a bit better defined than your elves, although it helps to portray them as slight, stick-like things...so its a stylistic choice of yours.
Their clothes seem garish though. The bright cyan against their orangey-red hair is too much for me. If you tone it down to a light blue/purple or even a light green I think it'd be better.
But yes, for what it's worth, the bodies get my stamp of approval.
In regards to boots...when you "loo(k)" at an elf, what is it wearing for footwear if not leather boots? cloth boots maybe?
Post by: jocan2003 on November 25, 2009, 12:25:30 am
edit**
Urist McUseless Cancel Life: Being slapped by angry elf.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on November 25, 2009, 01:06:06 am
Besides, the Dwarves are the only ones who know how to make blue dye in the base DF.
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 01:19:59 am
At first people say that my images are desaturated, and now opposite. I should find a balance then :D.
Also
[SHOES:ITEM_SHOES_BOOTS:COMMON]
'Nuff said
Quote
The current Human sprites have their hands a bit better defined than your elves, although it helps to portray them as slight, stick-like things...so its a stylistic choice of yours.Yeah, if I make arms at least 2 pixels wide, they are not slender anymore. Sometimes you have to drop details to define a correct shape.
Also, progress report:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/11sdzyh.png)
I didn't touch the peasant yet, so skip it. Also I think that I gave too muscular thighs to the female wrestler, however I am OK with it, I hope you don't mind. Once I had a female elf adventurer who broke necks of bears with her legs, so I don't see too much of a problem here.
P.S.
Quote
Urist McUseless Cancel Life: Being slapped by angry elf.Urist McUseless Cancel Pull Lever: Being slapped by angry elf.
Urist McUseless has died in the heat.
Fixed.
What?
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 25, 2009, 01:38:36 am
I do like how you did the elves' heads in particular contrast to the humans.
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 01:41:55 am
I was going for a more cartoony and bright feel to supplement the current bright and nice style. I am sure there will be grim and dark graphic sets later.
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 02:49:38 am
(http://i47.tinypic.com/307z3b9.png)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 25, 2009, 04:11:35 am
I see you used a wide stance on the military much like was done with humans and I think this is a good idea, they look more active/energetic/excited then civilians which is appropriate and a good alternative to slapping gobs of armor on them.
Only criticism with the latest stuff is that the weapons on the sword, mace and hammer users are hard to distinguish because the weapons are over the rest of the body. Try having them hold the weapons in different ways, say over the head or at a slanted angle to make them look different. Keep it up I think you've got an excellent look going and these are on par with the humans that have already been done.
Post by: Afthartos on November 25, 2009, 05:17:29 am
I think a polka-dot scheme for stockpile would look good and would be consistent with DF so people would be able to understand what it was. Perhaps even coloring the dots to indicate the stockpile type would be possible someday (as far as I know no one has ever hacked the memory for stockpile orders)
Make that Pink polka-dots
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 05:53:36 am
I've completed all the "allowed" professions. However kidnapped/captured elves may use other profession, so they will follow.
Woodcrafter/bowyer is holding a branch instead of a knife because 1) elves have no metals; 2) they have no axes either so they probably use magic to bend wood and branches into usable objects.
Quote
Only criticism with the latest stuff is that the weapons on the sword, mace and hammer users are hard to distinguish because the weapons are over the rest of the body.I won't change the stance because I like it, instead I've made weapons to have a green tint. They are somehow magically transformed from wood/plants, so why not. You can easily see them now.
Also I've made peasants to be blond, "nobles" (trader, druid) to have green hair and military to have red hair. It makes them different enough.
Peasant, trader, herbalist, clothier, weaver, woodcrafter/bowyer, animal caretaker, druid, skeleton (no gender), zombie (no gender)
Wrestler, swordsman, spearman/pikeman, maceman, hammerman, lasher, bowman, crossbowman, blowgunner.
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2mc6hec.jpg)
Post by: Seuss on November 25, 2009, 07:28:13 am
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2mc6hec.jpg)
Diggin the elves man. 8)
Post by: jonask84 on November 25, 2009, 07:31:00 am
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2mc6hec.jpg)
Those look great man! Do you think you could provide them in a losses format?
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 07:39:33 am
Post by: jonask84 on November 25, 2009, 07:44:40 am
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 07:58:27 am
Post by: dreiche2 on November 25, 2009, 08:01:33 am
QuoteOnly criticism with the latest stuff is that the weapons on the sword, mace and hammer users are hard to distinguish because the weapons are over the rest of the body.I won't change the stance because I like it, instead I've made weapons to have a green tint. They are somehow magically transformed from wood/plants, so why not. You can easily see them now.
Hm, I also think the weapons would be easier to make out in a different pose, green tint or not. Your call of course, and I guess it would be a pain to change them now.
Post by: jonask84 on November 25, 2009, 08:03:59 am
I am getting crashes whenever I try to look at the area where most of my Dwarves are at. I can look at the fortress with your previous version with no problem. I have installed the new version in its own directory so there is no interaction with the old version. After the crash, I have to use Task Manager to get rid of the application because it is still in memory.
I can look at the surrounding terrain complete with wildlife, but every time I creep up on the areas with the Dwarves, I get the crash. I have tried it with the game paused and with the auto reload time set to 0.
WinXP SP 3
3.8 GHz Pentium 4
2.0 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
DF 40d
What other information do you need?
Edit: I can look at the crowded area if I go there with CF and use F to get there in Stonesense. It seems to be one particular view that is upsetting Stonesense. Let me try to capture the information for you graphically.
Thanks for posting such detailed info, and the save really helped pinout the weakness. I figured out what was causing it, and it was some insane data coming from DF, seems something has been corrupted in there somehow. I added a check to handle cases like this now, but that check isn't in the a4 release, so I'm afraid there's not much I can do for you right now...
It seems to be the walls in this area that are doing it. so maybe it would help taking them down and reconstructing them. Not sure though.
http://imagebin.org/72932
Good luck :)
Post by: jonask84 on November 25, 2009, 08:07:53 am
Uh, it was png. Damned hosting. Anyway, do you have photoshop? I can send you my dev. PSD file, with other creatures like frogmen, lizardmen etc.
oh it was? cool, I'll have a look at it then. I dont have photoshop on this laptop though...
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 08:10:24 am
Here's a frogman+lizardman.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2zgzods.png)
[EDIT] Here's a link at the whole png file, with elves, frogman, lizardman and uhm... a bigger horse :D.
http://depositfiles.com/files/nlipu9fup
P.p.S. Where's the list of acceptable (in XML) professions? Why is the human "axedwarf", not "axeman"? Is there an "animal caretaker"?
Post by: dyze on November 25, 2009, 08:43:01 am
Uh, it was png. Damned hosting. Anyway, do you have photoshop? I can send you my dev. PSD file, with other creatures like frogmen, lizardmen etc.
oh it was? cool, I'll have a look at it then. I dont have photoshop on this laptop though...
it seems some hosts like tinypic renames png's to jpg for some reason (no compression tho), so just rename them to png.
Post by: dyze on November 25, 2009, 08:47:49 am
I will send you a png than. I mean it was png BEFORE I uploaded it.
Here's a frogman+lizardman.
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2zgzods.png)
lizard man looks like a good start, imo he needs some scales and maybe some sharp teeth. kinda goofy pose on the frogman, maybe try drawing him straight from the front?
also, digging the new elves!
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 08:56:07 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yeah I think that lizardman needs some details, however I am a bit busy with other things now, so a bit later. And the goofy pose is intentional, I just felt like that :).
P.S. I don't know how to assign "zombie"/"skeleton" images. It's not a profession. What should I do?
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 25, 2009, 08:56:38 am
To be honest the only distinction between people (little people on my screen) I really pay attention to is military-non military and then ranged military - melee military. So these sprites work splendidly for me!!! If I need any more detail than that I usually just V them anyway.
Yoj
Post by: kaypy on November 25, 2009, 09:45:11 am
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 09:50:08 am
P.S. Oh wait here they are (along with a better detailed lizardman and less goofy frogman):
(http://i47.tinypic.com/35n312u.png)
Post by: Neonivek on November 25, 2009, 10:09:34 am
That is a Troll
Specifically a Treasure Troll
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 10:23:48 am
Also, + werewolf and minotaur:
(http://i48.tinypic.com/2evtdz9.png)
The werewolf is eating sausages ::).
P.S. Harpy:
(http://i50.tinypic.com/4i0ac6.png)
P.P.S. Antman:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/157f97q.png)
P.P.P.S. Demon:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2roqa1y.png)
Post by: slink on November 25, 2009, 11:20:34 am
I am getting crashes whenever I try to look at the area where most of my Dwarves are at. I can look at the fortress with your previous version with no problem. I have installed the new version in its own directory so there is no interaction with the old version. After the crash, I have to use Task Manager to get rid of the application because it is still in memory.
I can look at the surrounding terrain complete with wildlife, but every time I creep up on the areas with the Dwarves, I get the crash. I have tried it with the game paused and with the auto reload time set to 0.
WinXP SP 3
3.8 GHz Pentium 4
2.0 GB RAM
NVIDIA GeForce 9800 GTX+
DF 40d
What other information do you need?
Edit: I can look at the crowded area if I go there with CF and use F to get there in Stonesense. It seems to be one particular view that is upsetting Stonesense. Let me try to capture the information for you graphically.
Thanks for posting such detailed info, and the save really helped pinout the weakness. I figured out what was causing it, and it was some insane data coming from DF, seems something has been corrupted in there somehow. I added a check to handle cases like this now, but that check isn't in the a4 release, so I'm afraid there's not much I can do for you right now...
It seems to be the walls in this area that are doing it. so maybe it would help taking them down and reconstructing them. Not sure though.
http://imagebin.org/72932
Good luck :)
I have just tested the construction method on another fortress and your program seems to display it okay. I started deconstructing the roof in this fortress but too many people were being killed so I stopped.
After further experimentation I think this is the result of editing constructions with Dtil. Stonesense crashes whenever it encounters a location in which I remove a construction by replacing it with Open Space. It does not crash where one type of natural terrain is replaced with another. I know that Dtil does not copy constructions correctly, but apparently it also does not correctly overwrite constructions with natural terrain. I remember now that I had used Dtil to remove some faulty work on that roof area because I was in a hurry to get it rebuilt before the next siege arrived. It protects the courtyards from archers on the surrounding slopes, and therefore exposed the construction workers to those archers while they were building.
Given that DF happily rebuilt something in a location where Dtil had evidentally not removed everything it was supposed to remove in order to create empty space, and that Stonesense objects violently to the data found there, I suspect destroying the roof and rebuilding it would not help.
The lesson here is not to use Dtil to edit constructions, at least until such time as the programmers of that utility fix their issue.
It would be interesting to know what data Stonesense had to ignore in order to function, because that is the data which Dtil does not correctly handle when editing constructions.
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 11:22:20 am
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2w2eeqx.png)
P.S. And a based on the same body cyclops (m, f):
(http://i50.tinypic.com/hte5p1.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/3spef.png)
Post by: qbert911 on November 25, 2009, 12:01:10 pm
Post by: Deon on November 25, 2009, 12:36:24 pm
(http://i46.tinypic.com/1hw1g6.png)
Too bad DF can't draw different graphics for male/female.
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 25, 2009, 04:55:30 pm
The new gears and waterwheel make the steel ship Dwarfhammer really come alive. Ramps and the green line on the steel look a little odd but that is it.
Large image
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Not so large image
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jocan2003 on November 25, 2009, 05:35:51 pm
Post by: gearsolid on November 25, 2009, 05:52:05 pm
Post by: jonask84 on November 25, 2009, 06:14:27 pm
After further experimentation I think this is the result of editing constructions with Dtil. Stonesense crashes whenever it encounters a location in which I remove a construction by replacing it with Open Space. It does not crash where one type of natural terrain is replaced with another. I know that Dtil does not copy constructions correctly, but apparently it also does not correctly overwrite constructions with natural terrain. I remember now that I had used Dtil to remove some faulty work on that roof area because I was in a hurry to get it rebuilt before the next siege arrived. It protects the courtyards from archers on the surrounding slopes, and therefore exposed the construction workers to those archers while they were building.
That's it then. Debugging has shown me how the issue happens. DF reports blocks/tiles in a separate operation than it reports constructions. The list of constructions will list a series of coordinates and the material of the block on the tile. In this case, there are constructions in that list that do not have counterpart blocks. As this was pretty much assumed to never ever happen (how could it?) there was no sanity check when the block was retrieved. In your case the block returned did not exist, and you get a null-pointer crash. I've added a fix for it now, like I said, but building all those edited tiles over again would almost certainly fix the issue, as far as I can see :) good luck!
Post by: The Doctor on November 25, 2009, 06:27:25 pm
Anyone have it happen when shut down DF and StoneSense VIA Task Manager, reload from a previous save, and turn off that Hidden Blocks thing in Stonesense, that you see every stone in each section? Like what would happen if you used Reveil.
It's very laggy D:
Post by: slink on November 25, 2009, 07:46:34 pm
After further experimentation I think this is the result of editing constructions with Dtil. Stonesense crashes whenever it encounters a location in which I remove a construction by replacing it with Open Space. It does not crash where one type of natural terrain is replaced with another. I know that Dtil does not copy constructions correctly, but apparently it also does not correctly overwrite constructions with natural terrain. I remember now that I had used Dtil to remove some faulty work on that roof area because I was in a hurry to get it rebuilt before the next siege arrived. It protects the courtyards from archers on the surrounding slopes, and therefore exposed the construction workers to those archers while they were building.
That's it then. Debugging has shown me how the issue happens. DF reports blocks/tiles in a separate operation than it reports constructions. The list of constructions will list a series of coordinates and the material of the block on the tile. In this case, there are constructions in that list that do not have counterpart blocks. As this was pretty much assumed to never ever happen (how could it?) there was no sanity check when the block was retrieved. In your case the block returned did not exist, and you get a null-pointer crash. I've added a fix for it now, like I said, but building all those edited tiles over again would almost certainly fix the issue, as far as I can see :) good luck!
That makes a lot of sense. If one tries to copy, for example, a segment of wall using Dtil, the result is a generic "Wall" with no material type. I don't know if it functions normally otherwise because I did not save it that way. I will make a post in the Dtil thread, in case that programmer wants to add the feature to his program.
Post by: jonask84 on November 25, 2009, 08:55:31 pm
Eh...
Anyone have it happen when shut down DF and StoneSense VIA Task Manager, reload from a previous save, and turn off that Hidden Blocks thing in Stonesense, that you see every stone in each section? Like what would happen if you used Reveil.
It's very laggy D:
Sure you didn't hit H by mistake?
Post by: jarathor on November 25, 2009, 09:27:36 pm
(http://i49.tinypic.com/a5g7f4.jpg)
The top row is the most conservative, but for the champion I prefer the middle dwarf.
Which helmets do you guys think are the best?
I've still got to flip these guys so that they are facing left so they'll be easier to distinguish from civilian dwarves, per KaelGotDwarves' suggestion.
Oh, I've also got to make the royal guards, regular guards, and champions... Maybe full helm for the champions, some sort of hat for the guards, and something special for the royal guards?
Post by: The Doctor on November 25, 2009, 11:22:05 pm
That's the thing, before when I hit H, it just made the black blocks invisible. Now, it makes them what tile they are, whether it's layer or cluster/vein/LARGE GLOB. It's very annoying, I wanna see the lower areas of my furt.Eh...
Anyone have it happen when shut down DF and StoneSense VIA Task Manager, reload from a previous save, and turn off that Hidden Blocks thing in Stonesense, that you see every stone in each section? Like what would happen if you used Reveil.
It's very laggy D:
Sure you didn't hit H by mistake?
Edit: Billowing cape for the royals.
Post by: Deon on November 26, 2009, 12:39:29 am
(http://i45.tinypic.com/i4lh5s.png)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 26, 2009, 01:13:07 am
Edit: Billowing cape for the royals.I AM INSPIRED
unfortunately it won't fit as a sprite.
(http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/8278/billowdwarf.png)
Too billowy to. Therefore, one that will.
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6008/sanebillow.png)
...hmm. not billowy enough, I think.
Post by: Jadael on November 26, 2009, 02:41:16 am
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/sheet2.png
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 26, 2009, 02:56:46 am
Will probably fit better like that, though.
Post by: Deon on November 26, 2009, 03:52:46 am
Post by: Jadael on November 26, 2009, 04:06:30 am
A similar idea could possibly be used for block-wood walls; log constructions for raw wood, frames and planks for block wood.
Post by: Deon on November 26, 2009, 05:43:32 am
Anyway, I've made a ratman and here's the image of all critters I've made yesterday and today because I don't want you to scavenge the thread for the pieces:
As I told, + ratman
(http://i47.tinypic.com/25k4msp.png)
Post by: kaypy on November 26, 2009, 06:53:28 am
That's the thing, before when I hit H, it just made the black blocks invisible. Now, it makes them what tile they are, whether it's layer or cluster/vein/LARGE GLOB. It's very annoying, I wanna see the lower areas of my furt.Sorry, missed one item on the readme. The key you are actually after is B
H: Toggle Show Hidden Blocks
B: Toggle Shade Hidden Blocks
Post by: Weq on November 26, 2009, 07:32:59 am
First of all *great work*. Really love the application, even more so because it actually works on my PC at work.
Second - are gems not included in walls yet, and will stockpiles show the items inside. Would love to see my display of goblin skull totems outside my fortress.
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 26, 2009, 09:36:55 am
How many more creatures should I draw to recieve another "looks good" comment? I like those :D.
As I told, + ratman
(http://i47.tinypic.com/25k4msp.png)
Frogman - excellent. He looks very grumpy :)
crocman - his pose is a little...effeminite. maybe a little more hulking. I always pictured the crocmen as one of the really imposing animal men.
Pinkguy- a little to much pink
the rest look really good.
Yoj
Post by: Neonivek on November 26, 2009, 10:00:42 am
Its official no one remembers what the Treasure Trolls were
Post by: jonask84 on November 26, 2009, 10:49:41 am
* ambushers not show up right
* slink's reported crash bug when using Dtil to mess around ;)
* Memory leak
* Modded shrubs
get it nao:
rar archive (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/stonesense_4_1.rar)
Installer (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/stonesense_4_1.exe)
Post by: kaypy on November 26, 2009, 10:52:08 am
I had a post a while back with more information on the modding itself, but back then there wasnt anything you could do once it hit the lava tiles.
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 06:41:26 pm
I'M SO SORRY FOR DISAPPEARING ABRUPTYL!
I had a big evalutation lesson last week, and my students have had exams lately, so I've been very busy with school. If any of you guys are still in gradeschool, go thank your teachers for their hard work!
Back on track to this mod:
I've missed about 30 pages in this thread now, so I hope I haven't missed something major. If so, please tell me! I don't really have time to wade through this whole thread =\
I'm still working on kobolds and goblins! I have a very nice base for goblins I think you guys will like, especially for the military. My goal is to make sieges and ambushes look very good :)
I'm going to rework kobolds, because even though I love Cutebolds, I think a darker and more feral version would be better for the default graphics.
I still hold this project close to my heart guys! Expect some stuff from me this weekend :)
Post by: jonask84 on November 26, 2009, 07:01:41 pm
I myself like the Cutebolds, but I know this is a debated issue :p
Would it be possible to throw together a quick sample of the various styles you're considering, and then we can put it to a vote?
Post by: Deon on November 26, 2009, 07:09:27 pm
Will you consider to add elves and critters to 4.2? I see you skipped them for 4.1.
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 07:12:33 pm
wb tehmarken :)
I myself like the Cutebolds, but I know this is a debated issue :p
Would it be possible to throw together a quick sample of the various styles you're considering, and then we can put it to a vote?
Sure thing. Not sure if I'll have it up in the next few hours or not.
Post by: jonask84 on November 26, 2009, 07:26:37 pm
Well, I am against "cutebolds" as base, but as an option it would be nice.We're all loving the creatures Deon, they're really cool :) 4.1 was only a bug fix release. Which means no new features.
Will you consider to add elves and critters to 4.2? I see you skipped them for 4.1.
They're making it into the trunk, that's for sure. I have the elves all set to go.
Post by: Jadael on November 26, 2009, 07:37:29 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on November 26, 2009, 07:39:50 pm
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 07:46:39 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 26, 2009, 07:47:52 pm
I thought the metal walls were the stone walls.
Post by: gilrad on November 26, 2009, 08:29:03 pm
Post by: Deon on November 26, 2009, 08:45:31 pm
Quote
4.1 was only a bug fix release. Which means no new features.Well, I just remind you that I've posted the edited PNG and XML to include elves with professions, so it's not a big deal.
Also, how to set up skeletons/zombies/guards in XML?
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 08:58:13 pm
And here is the preliminary work on a new Kobold style.
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_styles.png)
A little more hunched and the limbs are spread out in a mock prowling pose. Moving from 2D to isometric, I think taking advantage of pseudo 3D by spacing out limbs helps a lot. I think my Cutebolds look to stiff and statue-esque.
Post by: Neonivek on November 26, 2009, 09:00:41 pm
Post by: slink on November 26, 2009, 09:05:07 pm
* slink's reported crash bug when using Dtil to mess around ;)
YAY!
Thank you. This is a wonderful tool, not to mention being fun to look at. I love the bright, cheerful look of the workshops. :)
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 09:14:24 pm
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_styles-1.png)
I'm going to make their fur darker and more red/brown. While the pale blueish-grey is nice and conveys a light-starved cave-dweller, it interfers with too many other objects and colouring, such as metal for weapons.
EDIT:
One last prototype:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_styles-2.png)
I'm working off my laptop, but my most up to date stuff is on my desktop. I forgot I hadden shrunked the kobolds; something I do want to translate to this more feral style.
Anyways, this is the general coloring I'm thinking. Will most likely change the clothing too. But here it is for you guys to look at, now I've got classes to teach :)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 26, 2009, 10:17:27 pm
Excellent kobolds, tehmarken. I think switching to brownish kobolds is a good move.
OHH Those were the metal walls.
I thought the metal walls were the stone walls.
Well, the stone walls clash with the overall style right now, too. They'll come in handy when people start making an alternate "graphics set" for Stonesense with a grittier, more realistic look.
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 10:38:53 pm
EDIT:
What ever happened with the discussion of having things like Grass overlap into adjacent tiles? Looking at many screenshots and seeing ground tiles over vast areas makes me think more and more that overlapping looks the best. I think the best look is if EVERY texture had overlapping except for rock. I think this would also give a more natural look to transitions from grass/clay/sand/dirt onto rock areas.
Post by: jarathor on November 26, 2009, 10:55:15 pm
(http://i47.tinypic.com/20u8yvr.png)
These are the colors for the royal guards - my personal favorite set is the dark red, with the crown style helm (thanks, CobaltKobold, for the idea!).
Which color scheme do you guys like the best?
Is there another I should try?
Post by: The Doctor on November 26, 2009, 11:02:13 pm
Like red armor and purple helmet. Or vice versa.
Just try it out >_>
Post by: tehmarken on November 26, 2009, 11:04:19 pm
Post by: Neonivek on November 26, 2009, 11:05:33 pm
Purple is the color of royalty (due to how rare and expencive Purple Dye was)
Post by: Neruz on November 26, 2009, 11:14:19 pm
Also; isn't Dimple Cup Dye purple? Not really hard to get in DFLand.
Post by: Neonivek on November 26, 2009, 11:16:25 pm
Back in the day they had to crush exotic slugs to get purple dye.
Though people had a lot less disdain for using bugs for things then a lot of places do now.
Post by: Deon on November 26, 2009, 11:55:41 pm
Deon, I hate to keep bringing up colors, but I'm not sure greenish skin for the elves makes sense. That's more of a goblin thing. Though we will have "canonical" skin colors for elves in the next version, so perhaps that'll settle the issue.I appreciate your opinion. Mine is quite opposite. At first, goblins were gray in Slaves to Armok 1, so I don't see why they are suddenly green in Slaves to Armok 2; and they live in dark obsidian towers where Demons breathe fire and ashes on them, so it could make their skin to be dark and gray. Also, elven skin is more pale than green on my sprites, and I think it's ok, considering the fact that they live amongst green plants, which would help them to camouflage and also shows their resemblance to trees and plants.
It's like a discussion about dwarven women with beards.
As you told, next version will show us the true elves and dwarves :D.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 27, 2009, 01:09:24 am
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Crimson_Guard
Post by: DennyTom on November 27, 2009, 02:23:30 am
Post by: Afthartos on November 27, 2009, 03:10:33 am
Can DFHack check dwarf`s inventory? The visualizer could render dwarves according to what they wear.
I don't think that is possible at the moment
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 03:17:53 am
Can DFHack check dwarf`s inventory? The visualizer could render dwarves according to what they wear.
I don't think that is possible at the moment
Even if it was possible, I don't think Stonesense is ready to go there yet, though I hope it becomes more feasible in the future. It's kind of a can of worms, since you have a draw a sprite for each clothing item for each race (maybe even for each caste), and then you'd probably want to get the skin color (in the next version) and draw each body part as a separate sprite, and so on, with no clear end in sight.
Post by: Rose on November 27, 2009, 04:17:57 am
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 27, 2009, 04:27:11 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 05:11:42 am
But honestly, once you get to this point, hand-drawn sprites start to get very impractical, especially if you want to do anything like animations. If anyone ever attempts this for DF, they'll probably do it the way the Infinity Engine did -- sprites made from renders of high-res 3D models.
Post by: Afthartos on November 27, 2009, 05:23:21 am
(and major body part, if you want to show amputations)
Oh yeah. that's what was missing from SS. was wondering why there weren't separate limbs on the ground when gobbo dropped 15 floors down
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 27, 2009, 05:44:29 am
Then again, you can always go with Total Annihilation's approach. Take a single sprite-resolution camera and a lot of simple 3D models. When you need to change a critter's looks, assemble it before the camera (off-screen, of course), take a snapshot, and use it as the sprite. That way you can always have a set of sprites for each critter at hand, without the need to continuously render stuff.
Post by: Keita on November 27, 2009, 08:56:48 am
Post by: LegoLord on November 27, 2009, 09:36:20 am
Post by: tefalo on November 27, 2009, 11:50:14 am
I think the purple guard is a little too dark, maybe saturate (if i got the color terms right) the purples just a little bit? Just my opinion, though.
Post by: Alexhans on November 27, 2009, 11:52:14 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 02:15:19 pm
No, I meant an ADDITIONAL sprite to every group of sprites sharing the same pose/size. If you want your billowing cape, then you add two "extra bits", aligned to the "cape" pixel on the colormap. The engine sees the pixel, sees the fact the creature is wearing a cape, and draws two extra "cape" bits as determined by a description file - one behind the creature, one in front of it, both aligned to the pixel and likely textured/colored according to whatever material the cape is made from. With a complicated-sounding, but actually rather straightforward system like this, you only need to draw special clothing sprites for each creature that has a nonstandard size or pose. That billowing cape would be largely the same for most humanoids of similar size. Armor doesn't have to be all sprites - you can have the same outline for a jacket and a chainmail, but you will use different texture for them. If you want custom-looking armor, make a sprite for it, but only then. Plate armor can just have a shiny look with shoulderpads added.
Yeah, that's the better technique, although since each sprite will always sit in the same location in the tile, you don't need an alignment pixel or whatever. I'm still not sure what your "colormap" is exactly.
Post by: Retro on November 27, 2009, 02:46:17 pm
But seriously, I'm against the crown shape too. Giving them more of a face but still having insane armour would be a neat one. Really, I think just the more elaborate armour design and patterns, the better. These guys don't do jack for effective military structure anyhow.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 27, 2009, 02:48:12 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 03:12:47 pm
The "colormap" is just a sprite silhouette with color-coded areas for texture, and alignment pixels. Alignment pixels are important - elves and humans may wear similar clothing, but its location on the sprite is different for them.
What are the color-coded texture areas for? Do you mean having an actual 4x4 texture or whatever tessellated across that area? Because that would look really horrible, like a badly dithered color or something. You already have sprites for each item, so just use the grayscale to convey contours etc. -- this approach is already being used successfully in Stonesense.
As for the alignment pixel, I see your point, but it seems much simpler to just specify an X,Y offset in the text file that would map clothing items to sprites.
However, even done properly, this approach is kind of a dead end -- it'll never be able to cope with differently sized individuals, facial features, and of course animations. Although those are arguably unnecessary.
You mentioned the TA engine, but what you described pretty much sounded like normal 3D rendering, though obviously TA had some quirks with terrain, parallel projection etc. Anyway, if used for DF, that would basically be a return to Armok 1's procedurally generated models, and I'm not sure those will ever look good at all.
Post by: Dante on November 27, 2009, 04:04:08 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 27, 2009, 04:16:53 pm
Same can be done for SS. Except our models will be more funkily colored. If we manage to make a cel-shading renderer, all the better. Procedurally equipped models aren't nearly as ugly when they're in a 32x32 sprite.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 04:40:24 pm
Total Annihilation was... weird. It didn't render the units outright, relative to each other and so forth. What it did instead was your generic 2.5D RTS engine equipped with a realtime sprite maker. Units had dimentions alright, they did follow the terrain and stuff, but they weren't 3D in the usual sense.
Hmm. I'm still not clear on the distinction between a "realtime sprite maker" and a normal rasterizer, unless it involved caching the rendered units in some way.
Same can be done for SS. Except our models will be more funkily colored. If we manage to make a cel-shading renderer, all the better. Procedurally equipped models aren't nearly as ugly when they're in a 32x32 sprite.
Cel shading would be interesting. As for ugliness... well, a smaller sprite does hide the "blandness" typical of procedurally generated models, yeah, and maybe antialiasing would suffice to keep it from looking garbled.
There's been talk that DF's body definitions might become specific enough for full procedural generation of 3D creature models. I'm not holding my breath, but it's fun to think about.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 27, 2009, 04:56:44 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 05:00:07 pm
Post by: Beefmo on November 27, 2009, 06:40:14 pm
Just got my visa confirmation email today, and this looks like the best way i can practice my pixeling and contribute at the same time!
So i made a giant toad for joo!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/toads.png)
Think they're a little over saturated, and not sure how they're going to fit in with everything. Is it meant to be iso sprites? or going for the ol front and side views?
Post by: Footkerchief on November 27, 2009, 06:41:10 pm
Ideally the sprites would be in isometric perspective, yeah. The direction they face is more up to you, although having them face down-left or down-right is nice cause then you can do a nice clean horiz. flip for a movement effect. So that toad is great.
For those of you who haven't seen Beefmo's prior work, he made (most of) a graphics set a while back. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34834.0) I think his style will look great in Stonesense.
Post by: Neonivek on November 27, 2009, 06:56:29 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 27, 2009, 06:58:37 pm
Post by: Beefmo on November 27, 2009, 08:19:14 pm
And those froggies are meant to be a Giant toad spawn -> Female giant toad -> Male giant toad
Stonesense can track gender right?
aaannddd.... a giant olm!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/olm.png)
...anyone know what an olm "baby" looks like? I'm assuming its pretty much the same as a newt? ><
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 27, 2009, 08:31:15 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 27, 2009, 08:38:47 pm
the olm is basically an adult baby newt, much like an axlotl or a mud puppy, so a baby olm would be basically a small olm
i predict that the DF fad dor 2010 will be dwarf visualizers, with the game now tracking precise apearence information, the next step is to take that information and make an utility that creates dress up dolls with a beard, styled and coloured in the manner of your dwarf, then dress him in pig tail socks, pig tail shirts, cave spider silk pants, dog leather shoes, +steel chain mails+, -Ŧ*steel helmets*ŧ- menacing with spikes of gold... :D
Post by: Neonivek on November 27, 2009, 08:42:01 pm
Also Olms, if I am thinking of the right creature (I remember the look but not the name), were confused in the medieval age for baby dragons.
Olms are VERY pale. So in general think of them like white with a pinkish/fleshy hue or shadow
I am probably wrong because the creature I am thinking of lived underwater in a cave. Looks like an Olm but I don't remember the name.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 27, 2009, 08:56:13 pm
er...damn. the brown looks green t'me against the magenta. anyway, paler, then?
i predict that the DF fad dor 2010 will be dwarf visualizers, with the game now tracking precise apearence information, the next step is to take that information and make an utility that creates dress up dolls with a beard, styled and coloured in the manner of your dwarf, then dress him in pig tail socks, pig tail shirts, cave spider silk pants, dog leather shoes, +steel chain mails+, -Ŧ*steel helmets*ŧ- menacing with spikes of gold... :DSomeone's already working on the face-vis, I hear. I expect to see equipment and material choice (and dyedness at least) fairly soon- primitively you can just repalette. Damage, perhaps. Decorations, quality? Far future/not in a normal visualiser, certainly...fractal images for one...
Post by: Beefmo on November 27, 2009, 10:43:20 pm
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranbgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranfgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranmgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/trangolm.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/trangbat.gif)
Yeah, I figured they were pretty much just undeveloped newts anatomically wise, so I'll use the source pics I found googling newt larvae.
....God I missed spriting! :P
Post by: Jim Groovester on November 27, 2009, 10:45:58 pm
Fantastic work. I wish I had something to add other than compliments.
Post by: Jadael on November 27, 2009, 11:16:49 pm
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 28, 2009, 12:06:04 am
Post by: Solifuge on November 28, 2009, 01:56:06 am
Post by: Deon on November 28, 2009, 02:06:27 am
Just a small request: if you ever make animated sprites, make a random offset for each creature for its frames. Because when you see a screen of creatures which do THE SAME. Man, it's gonna hurt my brain :). So a simple offset in animation should be ok.
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 02:47:44 am
I'm working up to doing the animations properly now, so hopefully will have something for critters as well as buildings before long...
Post by: ank on November 28, 2009, 02:51:09 am
it actually looks like something that could turn into an actual GUI.
how hard would it be to implement a sort of keystroke cloning, where input in Stonesense would be tranfered to DF, then the change updated back to Stonesense?
i have seen some macro mods and such, that was able to "control" DF, so it should be possible to "control" df with stonesense, maybe even using the same code.
i'm not sugesting redesigning the GUI input method yet, simply keeping the old GUI input method, and porting it to work from Stonesense with DF running in the background.
oh, and this comes from a guy that has minimal programming experience, so i have no idea how this should be done doce-wise.
one thing i do know: Stonesense is great for visualizing your amazing fort, but to make the leap to utter greatness, and would have to be an actual GUI.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 28, 2009, 03:42:24 am
how hard would it be to implement a sort of keystroke cloning, where input in Stonesense would be tranfered to DF, then the change updated back to Stonesense?
It's very possible. Another visualizer, Lifevis, (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/) had this capability, and it was discussed in this thread as a possibility for Stonesense. Jonas said he'd take a look at it. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43260.msg838855#msg838855)
Post by: Bralbaard on November 28, 2009, 03:50:01 am
I'm colorblind, but...olms're pink/fleshtone, not green...
Just to be sure, you do know your avatar is not green ;) ? Not colorblind myself, but I find it quite fascinating, I read some article on colorblindness once, it seems it has advantages too, as colorblind people seem to be better able to pick out contrast etc under certain conditions.
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 04:12:41 am
I intentionally designed it that way. I am surprised I haven't seen Fun noble-disposals before around here.
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 28, 2009, 04:34:59 am
HOORAY!
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 07:05:53 am
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold.png)
Kobold Thief:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/koboldthief-1.png)
I really like these as my final result.
For reference, here is the old thief:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/koboldthief.png)
And the old template + military:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold_test_smaller-2.png)
Post by: jonask84 on November 28, 2009, 07:08:57 am
Animated sprites? Or am i getting ahead of myself? ><
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranbgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranfgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranmgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/trangolm.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/trangbat.gif)
Yeah, I figured they were pretty much just undeveloped newts anatomically wise, so I'll use the source pics I found googling newt larvae.
....God I missed spriting! :P
Welcome back and all :) Thanks for the sprites, they really look awesome. Seriously, this is as good as any commercial game! I spoke with Solifuge (our head art guy) and we'd really love you on this project. So if you find time now and then, feel free to play with any sprites you'd like :)
Again, great work!
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 07:12:56 am
Post by: jonask84 on November 28, 2009, 07:16:33 am
Kaypy and I have been looking at it, but nothing has been implemented yet. Theoretically it might be up to 6 frames, or 10 or any number I suppose.
Just be careful before you put too much work into animating the sprites, we're not even sure it's a feature that is going to work out. And IMHO it would be better to have more creatures in before starting to animate some :)
(The kobolds are looking really good btw! keep up the good work )
Post by: Neruz on November 28, 2009, 07:30:15 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 08:57:01 am
Regular Goblin:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/goblin.png)
Sword Goblin:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/goblin_sword.png)
Armored Sword Goblin:
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/goblin_sword_armor.png)
The concept behind the armored goblin is to match the Elite level of skill, such as the leaders of Sieges. And that's not a helmet; it's a skull mask ;D
Post by: dreiche2 on November 28, 2009, 09:35:59 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 28, 2009, 10:13:37 am
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 10:22:24 am
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 28, 2009, 10:26:22 am
Yoj
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 10:29:52 am
If someone else wants to redo the code, they get to set the frame count 8-P
edit:
6 is nice because:
* is works nicely with 2 and 3 frame anims
* it fits into a byte if you want to use binary arithmetic to say what sprites appear on what frames
12 would also work well, but require ints and make the configuration more 'interesting'
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 12:31:56 pm
Found a workaround
Post by: dyze on November 28, 2009, 12:39:15 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 12:41:20 pm
Post by: dyze on November 28, 2009, 12:43:09 pm
Maybe Jonask wants to see how many of our readers have ESP?
i saw a disctinct 'A' in my head so i went with that
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on November 28, 2009, 12:47:55 pm
(http://i47.tinypic.com/34g2dlg.png)
(http://i47.tinypic.com/34g2dlg.png)
(the purple outline is because of the purple backdrop and antialiasing)
Next I'll try to remember how to make animations in it, and see if I can pose the model into something interesting.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 28, 2009, 01:09:00 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 28, 2009, 02:21:31 pm
I've done all of the professions, male and female (except the bowyer - I just forgot to do that one), most of the nobles (I don't have something specific yet for a few), royal guards (I went with red/purple, but I'm going to upload the different styles/colors of helmets and bodies so that people can just pick what they like best), regular guards (should the elites be purple gold, or another color?) and the military. Hopefully all of the weapons are clear enough. I'll start working on getting them each in a seperate image.
Spoiler: Very Large Image (click to show/hide)
Awesome, Beefmo is back - those toads are awesome. I can't wait to see what's next.
The goblins are also awesome - they're just the slightest bit too bright for me, but that's not a big deal.
EDIT: Whoops, forgot to do the female jeweler sprites. I'll get those done soon.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 28, 2009, 02:52:00 pm
Post by: tefalo on November 28, 2009, 04:00:35 pm
...D! (http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9057/49772398.png)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 07:17:16 pm
Up the Radbolds!
Post by: darkflagrance on November 28, 2009, 07:30:03 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 07:51:00 pm
Animated sprites? Or am i getting ahead of myself? ><(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/horsebat.gif)
This used to be a horse before I needed to test Beefmo's sprites... Now it is a horsebat! (Once again science means cruelty to animals...)
I think I needed a dozen tries to get the screencap for the sideways wing position...
Post by: Beefmo on November 28, 2009, 08:16:01 pm
Firstly: The shadow.... should I add a shadow blob to my sprites? Or I think I saw something posted that that might be a thing on the programs end so you don't end up with fliers and swimmers with shadow blobs in mid air?
Secondly: I did a little overlay to see how my sprites look in the overall theme and I'm wondering if they're not saturated enough or maybe I need to darken my outlines?
Thirdly: Like Deon pointed out rather wisely, having a screen full of the same animated sprite (aka a mermaid farm) would kind of be like sand paper on the eyes, so like he suggested (I think its what he was saying) maybe give the females a slightly offset animation such as: (http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranfgtoad2.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranmgtoad.gif) or possibly switching orientation also with an offset (http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranfgtoad-1.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranmgtoad.gif) ... but I've got a feeling the latter wont look as good?
Fourthly: Is it worth me trying to stick to a self implimented scale scheme deally, like I've been trying to do so far, but I'm afraid that It might end up with the little critters looking to small?
and whipped up some babies and a mole dog so far today :P
Baby olm, baby bat, naked mole dog (not so sure on him or the baby bats animation.... prolly back to the drawing board)
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranbgolm.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranbgbat.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranmnmd.gif)
To Jonask and the rest of the team: I'd love to help out, I was going to get back into finishing my set, but then i saw this piece of awesomness you guys have been working on :P I dont really care if animations make it in or not, its more so just for me to practice, but its better getting them done with each sprite as I do them if you do manage to get it implimented. I just picked a raw (subteranian) and im working my way down the list... which reminded me of something... skeltal and zombie versions! Not sure if you can display the difference yet, but like i said, its better to get them all done out at the same time than having to go back and revisit..... so onwards to skeletal versions! :P
To Everyone else: Thanks for the welcome backs, and keep up the awesome contributions so far (Those new kobolds are 10 stars better tehmarken, I like how they fit the canon from toady's description and the kobold quest pic.. i really struggled making them for my tileset... thank god for the bigger work space!)
OH! And kaypy if you need the individual frames at all just post and ill put them in :P save that triggerhappy print screen button!
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 08:46:53 pm
I'm going to need some more feedback from you all to continue before i get to far ahead of myself and have to go back and redo most of them :PNoooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!
Firstly: The shadow.... should I add a shadow blob to my sprites? Or I think I saw something posted that that might be a thing on the programs end so you don't end up with fliers and swimmers with shadow blobs in mid air?
I'm about to tackle shadows properly, which means I will need to go and remove every shadow well meaning but misguided folks have already added.
edit: Current plan is translucent shadows (same way we did the water for now) with optional height indicator
(https://wave.googleusercontent.com/wave/thumbnail/critterheight_thumb.png?id=UIg__EsC2&key=AH0qf5znpDxwcSDuU90ehimVWoECMKd5wg)
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Secondly: I did a little overlay to see how my sprites look in the overall theme and I'm wondering if they're not saturated enough or maybe I need to darken my outlines?Hmm. The bat seemed to fit in pretty well when I tried in- I didn't look too closely at the others though, since I was mostly checking out whether animation worked
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Thirdly: Like Deon pointed out rather wisely, having a screen full of the same animated sprite (aka a mermaid farm) would kind of be like sand paper on the eyes, so like he suggested (I think its what he was saying) maybe give the females a slightly offset animationCurrently, each critter has a sort of randomish offset into the animation sequence, so they come in 6 different timings. (Which means anything done at sprite drawing time is moot anyway)
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Fourthly: Is it worth me trying to stick to a self implimented scale scheme deally, like I've been trying to do so far, but I'm afraid that It might end up with the little critters looking to small?I think trying to keep things vaguely to scale is good, but only vaguely. "Critter X is bigger than Critter Y" should be preserved, but not "Critter X is twice as large as Critter Y". And yeah, it'll probably get messed up at various points as different sprites are added, but lets aim for vaguely ordered sizes and not worry too much about the fine details.
Quote
and whipped up some babies and a mole dog so far today :PDid you see my last post?
Baby olm, baby bat, naked mole dog (not so sure on him or the baby bats animation.... prolly back to the drawing board)
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranbgolm.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranbgbat.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranmnmd.gif)
To Jonask and the rest of the team: I'd love to help out, I was going to get back into finishing my set, but then i saw this piece of awesomness you guys have been working on :P I dont really care if animations make it in or not, its more so just for me to practice, but its better getting them done with each sprite as I do them if you do manage to get it implimented.
Quote
I just picked a raw (subteranian) and im working my way down the list... which reminded me of something... skeltal and zombie versions! Not sure if you can display the difference yet, but like i said, its better to get them all done out at the same time than having to go back and revisit..... so onwards to skeletal versions! :PGood thing I got undead configs working then...
Post by: Footkerchief on November 28, 2009, 08:54:30 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on November 28, 2009, 08:56:31 pm
Clearly the correct choice is D for Dwarf.
i allways thought dwarf was spelt with a ☺, D is more like a Donkey
also, will stonesense ever port for linux?
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 08:57:12 pm
OH! And kaypy if you need the individual frames at all just post and ill put them in :P save that triggerhappy print screen button!I can save the gifs and pull out the frames fine. The reason for the printsceening was that that image was actual, "in-game" (in-visualizer?) footage of the animation in action in Stonesense.
Beefmo, a word of warning -- don't bother making skeletal/zombie versions of the civilized creatures, not yet anyway. There's no way from them to appear in the current version, and it's not clear whether those afflictions are sticking around (in their current form, anyway).4.1 no. They work on the trunk though.
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 08:59:18 pm
also, will stonesense ever port for linux?A bunch of folks have it running. Theres instructions in the SVN and on the forum somewhere. Like a lot of linux stuff its 'compile your own' though
edit: The flip side of that is that you wind up with an up-to-date version rather than the last time we bothered making a release 8-)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 09:03:45 pm
He meant that there's no way for them to appear(be created) in DF40d.Beefmo, a word of warning -- don't bother making skeletal/zombie versions of the civilized creatures, not yet anyway. There's no way from them to appear in the current version, and it's not clear whether those afflictions are sticking around (in their current form, anyway).4.1 no. They work on the trunk though.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 28, 2009, 09:05:04 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 09:09:01 pm
Haha, yeah, sorry, I meant the current version of DF. It used to be that you'd encounter skeletal axelords and zombie peasants and so on, but it just doesn't happen anymore, so those art assets will never get used.
Ah. Ok. Of course, if you go having fun with creature flags you can always make your own...
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 09:09:36 pm
An option to save animation?OH! And kaypy if you need the individual frames at all just post and ill put them in :P save that triggerhappy print screen button!I can save the gifs and pull out the frames fine. The reason for the printsceening was that that image was actual, "in-game" (in-visualizer?) footage of the animation in action in Stonesense.Beefmo, a word of warning -- don't bother making skeletal/zombie versions of the civilized creatures, not yet anyway. There's no way from them to appear in the current version, and it's not clear whether those afflictions are sticking around (in their current form, anyway).4.1 no. They work on the trunk though.
Or just doing something like having controls for animation toggle/nextindex/previndex.
Haha, yeah, sorry, I meant the current version of DF. It used to be that you'd encounter skeletal axelords and zombie peasants and so on, but it just doesn't happen anymore, so those art assets will never get used.
Ah. Ok. Of course, if you go having fun with creature flags you can always make your own...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Beefmo on November 28, 2009, 09:12:13 pm
To Footkerchief: You know.... i always wondered why people wanted zombie/skeletal versions of the races in my tileset.. I'd never seen them in game.. but then again I'm pretty late on the DF train :P And since there seem to be plenty of capable people working on the race sprites I thought I'd go for the creatures since I never got around to doing them in my tileset, so zombies and skeletons for all!
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 09:24:18 pm
To kaypy: Oh! i didnt realise that was an actual screen cap from stonesense.. thought it was just a mockup... thats awesome! Is there any limitation on the number of sprites per animation? any goal to try to keep them under...Currently, all animations are 6 frames. Which gives neat 2 or 3 frame versions, and OK four frame versions if some of the frames can be longer. (You'll notice that the bat there zips through the wing outward phase and lingers in the up or down). That may not always be the case, but now I have it working, changes to the animations are lower priority than a ream of other stuff I could be working on. (I dont rule out the possibility of sufficient artwork being a motivating factor in changing that... it certainly helped with getting animation in in the first place)
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and another question... how does a skeletal bat actually fly? ><Bloodymindedness. There's less blood in there than with the zombies, of course, but the skeletons can also flap faster.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 28, 2009, 10:01:45 pm
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 10:04:52 pm
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 10:07:01 pm
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 10:11:53 pm
Also, what is the general brightness level we should be working with? I know we have many different artists working here, but a consistent color pallete or luminosity will help a lot. Should we work on that on our own, and will somebody we compiling the artwork and checking these kinds of things?
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 10:14:56 pm
Also, shadows on surfaces.
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 10:19:22 pm
Nice work on the shadow blob Kaypy, I particularly like the height indicator though it might look a bit better with a more blurred edge so it seems to actually be an extension of the shadow.*That* one is still a mockup- I try to specifically mention when I have something that actually works...
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Can you toggle shadow rendering on the 'light' value of a tile or apply shadow over the terrain tiles themselves to make underground areas dark?Without proper alpha and a plan for showing flying stuff underground, I will probably be keeping it simple for the moment. Hey, let me get something that works- then we can worry about the details 8-)
Ok, cool.Hmm... Solifuge is theoretically Artistic Overseer. I just turned up about a dozen pages into the thread and started doing stuff...
Also, what is the general brightness level we should be working with? I know we have many different artists working here, but a consistent color pallete or luminosity will help a lot. Should we work on that on our own, and will somebody we compiling the artwork and checking these kinds of things?
...the semiproblem: Now, something back in the draw order will depend on something later, if fliers/swimmers. So, place shadows when loading?Yeah, that's what I'm wrestling with now. Also, shadows from multiple critters on the same tile, shadows needing to be different sizes, so needing more config, and probably more I haven't thought of. This isn't going to happen instantly, and will probably need a few tries and a good runup...
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 28, 2009, 10:28:07 pm
a few brainzaps on options:
Art: 1. predraw all shadows. Takes a bit of art time.
2. pre-drawn generic circle shadow. Not so good.
3. look at width of sprite, pick a circle shadow based on that. OK.
Detection: 1. Place shadows as loading. Best: Place creature, flag(/index) for shadowing, place floor, place shadow, clear flag. O(1) detect time per creature. Can handle collisions by masking shadows together, possibly, if you're using unique shadows, or just picking the larger. (note: requires loading top-down for this nice case. O(x*y*sprite) space)
2. Place shadow when drawing creature. O(h), may have draw order issues- but there are draw orders that will make it not matter. O(1) space.
Post by: tehmarken on November 28, 2009, 11:11:14 pm
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/goblin_archer.png)
No shadow, no attempt at clawed feet.
For rendering shadows, I think there should be an alpha kind of thing, so it's not a solid black shadow, just a circle under the creature that darkens the underlying surface.
I don't know programming much, but if you could do something similar to using magenta as our transparency color, could you have a specific shade of gray as our shadow color? And for every case that shade is used, it just darkens the surface underneath it. Is that a feasible option?
Post by: kaypy on November 28, 2009, 11:18:05 pm
For rendering shadows, I think there should be an alpha kind of thing, so it's not a solid black shadow, just a circle under the creature that darkens the underlying surface.Evertually, we will probably get proper alpha support. Until then, its likely to be an 'every other pixel' job like the water
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 28, 2009, 11:36:09 pm
In case you would like to know what happened
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=45496.0 (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=45496.0)
Posting here as Stonesense was used aquite a bit for the pictorials. Thanks. Really made the story come out.
Yoj
Post by: Firnagzen on November 28, 2009, 11:46:17 pm
Post by: YojimboUsaka on November 28, 2009, 11:53:29 pm
Yoj
Post by: kaypy on November 29, 2009, 12:00:35 am
Just had one of those epic things happen in my fort and started to take screen shots as it happened. Stonesense worked really well. Only thing missing was the blood and body parts. Any chance of getting those in at all? Would make fights look very epic.Eventually they will most likely be in: bloody splatters are a known occ flag, so shouldnt be too difficult. But items are going to be a real pain.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 29, 2009, 12:18:56 am
Eventually they will most likely be in: bloody splatters are a known occ flag, so shouldnt be too difficult. But items are going to be a real pain.
FYI the current splatter system is going out the window with the next release -- instead of being part of the map format they'll be more like items, i.e. they'll be allocated as needed, and can be any material in any solid or liquid form.
As for items themselves, this was another feature that Lifevis (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/) had. Presumably he'd found a reasonably efficient way of handling it. You can see items (blue blobs) lying on the ground in that demonstration video.
Post by: kaypy on November 29, 2009, 12:29:41 am
As for items themselves, this was another feature that Lifevis (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/) had. Presumably he'd found a reasonably efficient way of handling it. You can see items (blue blobs) lying on the ground in that demonstration video."Is there an object here" is relatively easy- theres an occ flag for that, so I had it on a branch a few weeks back. Anything beyond "an object" eg "what kind of object" suddenly becomes much harder.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 29, 2009, 12:42:11 am
Post by: gilrad on November 29, 2009, 01:53:05 am
Post by: kaypy on November 29, 2009, 01:54:19 am
Ah, gotcha. What makes identifying them so difficult? Is it just expensive to iterate over the item vector, (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Memory_hacking/v0.28.181.40d16) or is the item format not understood?I think DFHack is getting item support, but the expense is the big factor. If we can get items at a specific location it would be much easier, but I dont think we have that info yet.
Otherwise we may have to resort to only reloading the object info when we really *really* need to, because it will be worse than when you hit 'stones' in your stockpile screen.
Post by: kaypy on November 29, 2009, 02:00:11 am
(https://wave.googleusercontent.com/wave/attachment/harpybats.png?id=YjPW_He12&key=AH0qf5yuIvj5BNts86jWgjWymeeqVM995Q)
Just a first pass- doesnt do different shadow sizes yet or anything more fancy.
Oh, and one of those harpybats is directly above another, hence two shadows only.
Post by: jonask84 on November 29, 2009, 09:44:16 am
Nearly forgot what I actually hit the forum for this time:
(https://wave.googleusercontent.com/wave/attachment/harpybats.png?id=YjPW_He12&key=AH0qf5yuIvj5BNts86jWgjWymeeqVM995Q)
Just a first pass- doesnt do different shadow sizes yet or anything more fancy.
Oh, and one of those harpybats is directly above another, hence two shadows only.
That's looking really cool, kaypy :) Can't wait to check it out!
Jonas cancels Post: Interrupted by Boarding Plane.
Post by: jarathor on November 29, 2009, 12:46:20 pm
Nearly forgot what I actually hit the forum for this time:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just a first pass- doesnt do different shadow sizes yet or anything more fancy.
Oh, and one of those harpybats is directly above another, hence two shadows only.
Awesome - can't wait to see how it looks with everything else.
Post by: ClumsyBoy on November 29, 2009, 02:10:11 pm
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 29, 2009, 02:15:36 pm
you need the allegro-dev package, cmake package, and libpng-dev packages installed.
after checking out the stonesense svn (or the stonesense-read-only one, makes no difference), you go into the stonesense/build directory and type:
Code: [Select]
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Releasethen typeCode: [Select]
makeand let it build (hopefully no errors, there will be some warnings though but those are usually safe to ignore in this case)then type
Code: [Select]
cd .. and ./stonesense to run it. be sure df is running first.P.S. if you want to have the cool debug cursor, replace the build type string above ("Release") with "Debug".
LN
Post by: Beefmo on November 29, 2009, 02:27:16 pm
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgbat.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgbat.gif)
God damn skeletal sprites never easy >< and some c&c on the zombie version would be much appreciated. I was thinking of doing the zombie versions like this all with the same palette with a few changed details.. to give a unified look to the undead area's.... not sure though.
To Kaypy: What kind of delay between frames are you using so i can tailor my animations to that?
Post by: DennyTom on November 29, 2009, 02:33:43 pm
Post by: Afthartos on November 29, 2009, 03:04:48 pm
Skeletal and zombie toads done!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad.gif)
God damn skeletal sprites never easy >< and some c&c on the zombie version would be much appreciated. I was thinking of doing the zombie versions like this all with the same palette with a few changed details.. to give a unified look to the undead area's.... not sure though.
To Kaypy: What kind of delay between frames are you using so i can tailor my animations to that?
Is it just my corrupted imagination, or is that skeletal frog humping air?
Post by: jarathor on November 29, 2009, 03:36:03 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fixed.
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 29, 2009, 03:43:13 pm
Now I wish my fortress was full of undead frogs and bats just so I could see these buggers in Stonsense :)
Here's the spritelist, a bit messy and incomplete but whatevs.
http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki
BTW, could you help me work on this bugger, Beefy?
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/isodorf.png)
Post by: Deon on November 29, 2009, 03:43:50 pm
Post by: The Doctor on November 29, 2009, 04:15:17 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 29, 2009, 04:19:40 pm
and some c&c on the zombie version would be much appreciated. I was thinking of doing the zombie versions like this all with the same palette with a few changed details.. to give a unified look to the undead area's.... not sure though.
The purple zombies are cute, although they might take some getting used to. I tend to think of a more conventional rotting-with-flesh-hanging-off look for zombies, and while the purple will instantly differentiate them from normal creatures, zombies of different species will all look a lot like each other -- you won't be able to use color as a clue for identifying them.
Post by: Xandrin on November 29, 2009, 04:26:53 pm
Although perhaps you could focus on a bit more pressing matters :P
http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki
I hope the list is up to date...
Creatures list is pretty up-to-date. Although the majority of sprites in the list at the moment are severely lacking and
Beefmo: what program are you using to create your sprites?
Pretty much any time you see a purple "?" or a creature you think doesn't fit the current scheme then we need a sprite for it. :D
Jarathor: MS Paint does not draw an alpha channel. I've never tried elements 5, but yeah...paint sucks.
Post by: Seuss on November 29, 2009, 04:31:59 pm
Awwww yesssss, man!
Now I wish my fortress was full of undead frogs and bats just so I could see these buggers in Stonsense :)
Although perhaps you could focus on a bit more pressing matters :P
http://stonesense.wikia.com/wiki/Stonesense_Wiki
I hope the list is up to date...
BTW, could you help me work on this bugger, Beefy?
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/isodorf.png)
We have pressing matters?
Skeletal and zombie toads done! Edit: Bats too!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgbat.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgbat.gif)
God damn skeletal sprites never easy >< and some c&c on the zombie version would be much appreciated. I was thinking of doing the zombie versions like this all with the same palette with a few changed details.. to give a unified look to the undead area's.... not sure though.
To Kaypy: What kind of delay between frames are you using so i can tailor my animations to that?
I'm against using just purple. I don't think shape is enough to differentiate all the creatures if they are purple plus i don't think it conveys them being zombies.
I think your style is exactly what stonesence is shooting for, are you aiming for that or is your style just like that?
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2009, 04:33:09 pm
Post by: ClumsyBoy on November 29, 2009, 04:48:19 pm
Clumsyboy: works fine here;
you need the allegro-dev package, cmake package, and libpng-dev packages installed.
after checking out the stonesense svn (or the stonesense-read-only one, makes no difference), you go into the stonesense/build directory and type:Code: [Select]cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Releasethen typeCode: [Select]makeand let it build (hopefully no errors, there will be some warnings though but those are usually safe to ignore in this case)
then typeCode: [Select]cd ..and ./stonesense to run it. be sure df is running first.
P.S. if you want to have the cool debug cursor, replace the build type string above ("Release") with "Debug".
LN
Thanks for that information. I can get past the cmake part with no errors, but when I run make, it ends with the following error:
Code: [Select]
Linking CXX executable ../stonesense
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lalleg_unsharable
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [../stonesense] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
So it appears it can't find my Allegro libs? Any ideas about how to fix this?
Post by: dyze on November 29, 2009, 04:55:06 pm
..I tend to think of a more conventional rotting-with-flesh-hanging-off look for zombies, and while the purple will instantly differentiate them from normal creatures, zombies of different species will all look a lot like each other -- you won't be able to use color as a clue for identifying them.
yeah same here, i'm forever stuck with the fallout style zombies in my head.
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/2/2b/FO01_NPC_Set.png)
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/4/4a/Naglowaa_se.gif) (http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/5/58/Ghoul2.gif)
Post by: jarathor on November 29, 2009, 04:57:19 pm
Jarathor: MS Paint does not draw an alpha channel. I've never tried elements 5, but yeah...paint sucks.I figured it was something like that - PSE 5 probably doesn't either.
Can paint.net or Gimp draw in alpha?
Or is there another free program I should be checking out?
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2009, 05:00:29 pm
Blank, and missing, expressionless eyes, Hanging tounges, Tilted heads, bloody maws, gaping maws, visable organs, all help
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 29, 2009, 05:04:23 pm
We have pressing matters?Well, I don't care since I'm stuck in the cavalier version :P Ok, carry on then!
Post by: Beefmo on November 29, 2009, 05:57:38 pm
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/3toads.png)
To Mikemayday: I'm moreso doing these for practice than anything else, and there are other people working on most other area's so I figured animals were a good start since i never got around to doing them for my set either! Once I get these zombie versions ironed out I'll have a poke at your little dwarf and see what i can do with him.
To Xandrin: Good ol' MS paint here :P I found photoshop too cumbersome to work with at these levels, its pretty much overkill, although the animation feature was very handy from what i remember of it... pity I lost my photoshop in the great reformat of 09.
To Neonivek: I never knew what mange was until now! :P But that kind of idea will work alot better when i get to zombie animals that actually have fur, I might give it a spin on the bat, but he doesnt really have much body area to play with.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 29, 2009, 06:00:44 pm
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 29, 2009, 06:12:21 pm
It's cool, as Seuss pointed out, we don't ACTUALLY have any pressing matters in terms of gfx :) So feel free to work on whatever you find fun!
and I guess I might as well throw this in here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 29, 2009, 06:14:36 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on November 29, 2009, 06:16:03 pm
Quote
To Xandrin: Good ol' MS paint here :P I found photoshop too cumbersome to work with at these levels, its pretty much overkill, although the animation feature was very handy from what i remember of it... pity I lost my photoshop in the great reformat of 09.
I often had the same problem, Photoshop/Gimp are really really overkill but MSpaint and equivalent are a bit blunt and don't do anything with alpha channel. I recently found PAINT.NET and find it to be a good alternative to MSPAINT, its simple enough to get in and quickly do some work and has a number of useful features paint doesn't. My only grip is that theirs a bug in the drag tool that requires you to move the mouse well away from the area your dragging or else you'll stretch it (in other words the control points for dragging are so huge they completely cover the selection area).
P.S. Agree with Mike third one is most zombie, btw as this is a giant TOAD I think the normal non-zombie toad should have a brown and warty skin a smooth green skin is what a frog has. Also some yellow eyes would help, I find it looks a bit too much like very fat pit-bull dog rather then a toad.
Mike: Thats pic is it from Stonesense or is it a mock-up? I think the dwarf should be shorter as it really looks to be taller then the walls its next too (are the walls compressed at all?)
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 29, 2009, 06:34:43 pm
Quote from: Impaler[WrG
Mike: Thats pic is it from Stonesense or is it a mock-up? I think the dwarf should be shorter as it really looks to be taller then the walls its next toIt's from Stonesense, a modified exec to support cavalier. Sadly, the walls are only 25 px tall and 24 pixels is too damn low to have fun. Thus, the dwarf is higher... for now. I might do a smaller dude later on.
Post by: Seuss on November 29, 2009, 07:04:11 pm
and I guess I might as well throw this in here:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dude that's awesome. Reminds me of Diablo and I recon it'd be great for adventure mode.
Post by: tehmarken on November 29, 2009, 07:17:21 pm
And maybe it's just me, but the current version of dwarves doesn't feel like we're utilizing the engine. They look just like a normal spriteset for in game, but with stonesense we have so many more pixels to work with and should have more color blending and details.
Keeping everything to scale shouldn't be a top priority in my mind; making things look good should be. Bronze Colossii and Dragons are the same height as an Elephant, a Human, and a Tree. I don't think we should be limiting our artwork with trying to have Dwarves be scaled down.
Post by: strich on November 29, 2009, 07:22:35 pm
The third one is grrrreat!That's awesome! Thank god someone is doing a version with graphics you can actually see and do decent art with.
It's cool, as Seuss pointed out, we don't ACTUALLY have any pressing matters in terms of gfx :) So feel free to work on whatever you find fun!
and I guess I might as well throw this in here:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 29, 2009, 07:26:23 pm
That's awesome! Thank god someone is doing a version with graphics you can actually see and do decent art with.Do you mean the default is too small or that too much is obscured by walls?
(Let me just say that the art in the default tileset is much more than decent IMHO).
Post by: tehmarken on November 29, 2009, 07:39:28 pm
And in general, are we aiming for any kind of outlining with our sprites? Doing just some ground tiling and dropping my sprites on them I've noticed goblins blend into the grass a lot. Perhaps when they're moving this won't be a problem?
Post by: kaypy on November 29, 2009, 07:56:40 pm
Skeletal and zombie toads done! Edit: Bats too!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgbat.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgbat.gif)
God damn skeletal sprites never easy >< and some c&c on the zombie version would be much appreciated. I was thinking of doing the zombie versions like this all with the same palette with a few changed details.. to give a unified look to the undead area's.... not sure though.
To Kaypy: What kind of delay between frames are you using so i can tailor my animations to that?
Its user configurable (so people with slower systems or who get annoyed could tone it down) but I'd be looking at about 100-200 ms per frame... honestly, it could be best described as "about the range that looks ok with your present sprites"
Third one more like you guys picture?
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/3toads.png)
Yep, that one on the right has the zombie aspect. And the skeletons from before are awesome.
And in general, are we aiming for any kind of outlining with our sprites? Doing just some ground tiling and dropping my sprites on them I've noticed goblins blend into the grass a lot. Perhaps when they're moving this won't be a problem?
Most of the current sprites have some sort of outlining.
Post by: Solifuge on November 29, 2009, 08:36:49 pm
That's awesome! Thank god someone is doing a version with graphics you can actually see and do decent art with.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume this wasn't meant as inflammatory. I've been quite happy with the better part of the graphics contributions, and hope that everyone keeps up the good work!
Skeletal and zombie toads done! Edit: Bats too!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/transgbat.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgbat.gif)
God damn skeletal sprites never easy >< and some c&c on the zombie version would be much appreciated. I was thinking of doing the zombie versions like this all with the same palette with a few changed details.. to give a unified look to the undead area's.... not sure though.
To Kaypy: What kind of delay between frames are you using so i can tailor my animations to that?
Third one more like you guys picture?
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/3toads.png)
Love the movement on the Skeletal Toad and Bat! These are some excellent sprites, Beefmo; I think for Zombie colors, if you stuck with a similar style to the second toad, where you make them a paler/greener tone of their normal color, depending on the sprite (a zombie tiger might have patches of fur missing, open wounds, bone exposed, etc.) The sunken eyes are a great touch, and that makes the face damned creepy, especially for a cartoon-ish style.
The style of outlining you're going with works great with existing graphics too... this is exactly the direction I was shooting for with the original Stonesense graphics, so excellent work!
Beefmo: what program are you using to create your sprites?
My weapon of choice, which I'd highly recommend to anyone doing Pixel-Oriented artwork, is Graphics Gale (http://www.humanbalance.net/gale/us/). It has the simplicity of MSPaint, the filters of Photoshop, layers, transparency, and animation frames, and has tools specifically designed for working in low-res environments, and with limited colors.
Spoiler: Graphics Gale Screenshot (click to show/hide)
Post by: gilrad on November 29, 2009, 08:46:44 pm
Showing bone isn't so necessary on the frogs because they are a largely round shape, but when dealing with humanoids that have more defined appendages, I think showing bone through the rot is a great idea :)
Post by: CobaltKobold on November 29, 2009, 09:58:22 pm
Nearly forgot what I actually hit the forum for this time:...argh flat shadow on sloped terrain
(https://wave.googleusercontent.com/wave/attachment/harpybats.png?id=YjPW_He12&key=AH0qf5yuIvj5BNts86jWgjWymeeqVM995Q)
Just a first pass- doesnt do different shadow sizes yet or anything more fancy.
Oh, and one of those harpybats is directly above another, hence two shadows only.
Post by: Neonivek on November 29, 2009, 10:20:46 pm
...argh flat shadow on sloped terrain
MY EYES THEY BURN!!!
Quote from: CobaltKobald
I CobaltKobald am the most evil person alive
I am surprised!
Post by: Beefmo on November 29, 2009, 10:39:16 pm
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad3.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgbat2.gif)
and another animation i tried for the zombie toad... but it doesnt look dynamic enough... maybe the blood drip works better in this one.. or i could change it to a maggot? ><
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad2.gif)
To Solifuge: That program looks pretty sweet, I'll have to have a play around with it tomorrow... I'm pretty pumped :D
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 30, 2009, 12:25:37 am
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8633/sshumankidtest.png)
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on November 30, 2009, 01:03:07 am
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/8633/sshumankidtest.png)I want his fro.
Post by: Retro on November 30, 2009, 01:17:19 am
Post by: Osmosis Jones on November 30, 2009, 01:35:20 am
Satyr
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5492/satyr.png)
Left image is without borders, right image with,
It's a work in progress, so criticise away :P
Post by: Afthartos on November 30, 2009, 02:32:42 am
First ever attempt at pixel art;
Satyr
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5492/satyr.png)
Left image is without borders, right image with,
It's a work in progress, so criticise away :P
Reminds me about Chuck Norris
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 03:03:55 am
Post by: soup on November 30, 2009, 03:13:02 am
The third one is grrrreat!
It's cool, as Seuss pointed out, we don't ACTUALLY have any pressing matters in terms of gfx :) So feel free to work on whatever you find fun!
and I guess I might as well throw this in here:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Is this any better? I tried to add more perspective to the leg and show the other arm, I'm not sure if it looks right though...
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2vvtdfl.png)
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 03:31:25 am
Post by: Keita on November 30, 2009, 03:46:16 am
The amount of amazing art in this thread is just to good to look at. The pains worth it though.
BTW: Does anyone else get the problem in Stonesense were you'll get randomly spammed cabinates, tables, cofffens, other furniture?
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 03:54:53 am
Post by: Keita on November 30, 2009, 03:58:54 am
Post by: soup on November 30, 2009, 04:28:00 am
Retry of the zombies i did....
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad3.gif)(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgbat2.gif)
and another animation i tried for the zombie toad... but it doesnt look dynamic enough... maybe the blood drip works better in this one.. or i could change it to a maggot? ><
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/tranzgtoad2.gif)
To Solifuge: That program looks pretty sweet, I'll have to have a play around with it tomorrow... I'm pretty pumped :D
I couldn't contain myself, I love your style and the zombie animals you've sprited so far are amazing. I tried to modify your toad to make it look more zombie-ish ;D
zombie: (http://i49.tinypic.com/9092c2.gif) toad1: (http://i48.tinypic.com/av507s.gif) toad2: (http://i49.tinypic.com/67tvyu.png)
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 30, 2009, 04:36:41 am
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 04:50:13 am
Post by: Keita on November 30, 2009, 06:02:31 am
Oh, one last thing:
I'd be surprised if no has made an x-com mod yet, actually.You sir are correct. I'm thinking of doing this, a bit hard as a first mod but...
Post by: kaypy on November 30, 2009, 06:11:41 am
That's awesome! Thank god someone is doing a version with graphics you can actually see and do decent art with.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume this wasn't meant as inflammatory. I've been quite happy with the better part of the graphics contributions, and hope that everyone keeps up the good work!
There have been a number of people who would rather larger scale artwork, so its same to assume a genuine opinion. We figured that there were enough like Mayday who'd put their sprite editors where their mouth is given the opportunity, and made it so that setting up different sprite sizes is a few compile-time flags
Two things. If the fix for the spamming of random furniture could be posted on front page (when I find it) it would help others who get this problem.I'll try to add it to the wiki when I get a chance. Or maybe just go fix it so plants are properly configurable instead of hacked in...
Quote
Also Stonesense isn't picking up the map any more. I did a clean install again and still nothing.OK, thats odd. DF's definitely up and running? Can you try a vanilla DF (just to see if it works as a starting point- not suggesting you abandon your world)? Anything in Stonesense.log?
Post by: jonask84 on November 30, 2009, 06:18:04 am
We're working on improving configurability, and a large step in that direction is that now support multiple creature sheets. That is, we can have one sheet for dwarves, elves and one for humans etc...
This makes it so much easier to merge content.
So jarathor, Deon and 7Ē Nickel: This means you can create your own sheets, and you don't have to worry about overlapping index anymore :)
I see some really awesome posts here :) Wish I had more time to write a more extensive reply. Loved your story YojimboUsaka, it's fun to see people using Stonesense to illustrate like that :)
Cheers!
Post by: Keita on November 30, 2009, 06:25:55 am
I't was working with Dig Deeper mod, will try with fresh install of DFQuoteAlso Stonesense isn't picking up the map any more. I did a clean install again and still nothing.OK, thats odd. DF's definitely up and running? Can you try a vanilla DF (just to see if it works as a starting point- not suggesting you abandon your world)? Anything in Stonesense.log?
Post by: Keita on November 30, 2009, 06:39:02 am
No dice, fresh install of both, DF's running, gen'd world, play now!, paused, launched stonesense, F9, no map loaded in the top right.
Also Stonesense.log just has a massive amount of ok's
Post by: kaypy on November 30, 2009, 06:56:50 am
[Soz for double post]Hmm. What DF version is this? Have you tried hitting R or the arrow keys?- if you trigger a manual refresh, SS might find your map then. "No map loaded" normally means you have DF running (and detected) but sitting on the title screen. Note that once it senses that state, it isnt safe to keep loading the map over and over, so it stops autoloading until something manual causes a map to be detected
No dice, fresh install of both, DF's running, gen'd world, play now!, paused, launched stonesense, F9, no map loaded in the top right.
Quote
Also Stonesense.log just has a massive amount of ok'sOh, thats right, I hadn't gotten non-verbose mode working back then. 8-/
Post by: kaypy on November 30, 2009, 07:16:16 am
...argh flat shadow on sloped terrainSorry. I cant really have a bunch of different sized of shadows and then also have a different shadow per size per ramp style...
I could try moving them up a bit if they are on a ramp:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/movedshadow.png)
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2009, 08:08:57 am
Though I am mostly thinking in the case of trees.
Yes I know I am insane and the only reason I can even mention this is because I am not the one making them.
Post by: kaypy on November 30, 2009, 08:42:04 am
Ever think of doing something completely insane and allowing multiple sprites for a single thing to allow appearance varience?I was mostly thinking in the case of walls, but yeah. Oh, and you'll find Japa's clay floors already do this (because DF itself has multiple tile types to represent its multiple floor sprites)
Though I am mostly thinking in the case of trees.
And here was me just about to ask "Can anyone think of any possible reason to have more than one sprite for a tree?". Silly me.
Yes, I really *was* about to ask that- I'm figuring out the tree xml format right now...
Post by: gilrad on November 30, 2009, 09:35:11 am
...argh flat shadow on sloped terrainSorry. I cant really have a bunch of different sized of shadows and then also have a different shadow per size per ramp style...
I could try moving them up a bit if they are on a ramp:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/movedshadow.png)
You can't do it technically (programming-wise, that is), or you can't do it because that's a lot of shadows to be drawing? I mean, they're circles, I am sure that most of the spriters reading this are more than capable of drawing a bunch of slanted, bent, and half-circles.
Post by: jonask84 on November 30, 2009, 09:45:54 am
...argh flat shadow on sloped terrainSorry. I cant really have a bunch of different sized of shadows and then also have a different shadow per size per ramp style...
I could try moving them up a bit if they are on a ramp:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/movedshadow.png)
You can't do it technically (programming-wise, that is), or you can't do it because that's a lot of shadows to be drawing? I mean, they're circles, I am sure that most of the spriters reading this are more than capable of drawing a bunch of slanted, bent, and half-circles.
To be honest I simply think we should focus our programming efforts on more important matters. Of course, we do accept patches if you wanna have a go at it ;)
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 09:51:40 am
This is Harpy:
(http://i50.tinypic.com/4i0ac6.png)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I haven't recieve an official reply for:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/25k4msp.png)
Should I redraw them or are they OK?
Post by: jonask84 on November 30, 2009, 10:00:29 am
Wait, those are not harpies but giant bats!
This is Harpy:
(http://i50.tinypic.com/4i0ac6.png)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I haven't recieve an official reply for:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/25k4msp.png)
Should I redraw them or are they OK?
I like em a lot :) some more than others of course. I like the isometric perspective ones, because they fit in better with the other creatures. Especially nice is the frogman, the harpy, the antman and the ettin. The warewolf is a really great sprite too, but I couldn't tell he was a warewolf.. I dunno why, I'm no artisty type :p but I had to look it up in your posts what he was ;p
But still damn nice work! Like I said, I think the iso perspective ones fit in best :)
Edit: oh and Kaypy was probably only using the harpies as a test.
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 10:27:34 am
Post by: Beefmo on November 30, 2009, 10:48:32 am
Animated sprites: baby->female->male->skeletal->zombie
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And my sprite sheet so far:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To soup: Those are some awesome edits! I took your idea of the exposed ribs (that really did look great) and applied it to mah froggy! But I think I'm beginning to agree with who ever it was that suggested it (sorry) and try to tone down the excitement levels of my zombie versions... skeletons on the other hand should look like theyre on speed imo!
To Afthartos: Thats looking great, but I agree with deon in that you need to work on the shading now, he should turn out pretty spiff.
To Deon: I love your demon guy next to your antman, also the ratman is super adorable :P
Post by: kaypy on November 30, 2009, 10:52:48 am
Wait, those are not harpies but giant bats!They're harpybats- they have the body of a harpy and the sprite of a bat. They are a close relative of the horsebats you saw in some of my previous posts 8-)
Ok, so I think I;m finally happy with the zombie/skeletal versions I've got now.. and spent some time actually arranging and touching up my sheets... so it should get alot easier now that I don't have to keep going backwards anymore!One thing- we dont actually need multiples of the same sprite when it is reused in animations. (Although it may still be the easiest way to indicate the frames in the animation...)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 30, 2009, 11:15:45 am
Post by: Mike Mayday on November 30, 2009, 11:25:40 am
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/%7Emayday/upload/isodorf5.png)
Post by: Osmosis Jones on November 30, 2009, 11:36:37 am
Left image is original, middle and right new attempts.
I've increased the contrast between legs, added a slight highlight on the upper left of the left arm and ear, added differing degrees of body shading, and removed an unfortunate bright spot.
Post by: jonask84 on November 30, 2009, 11:37:34 am
Post by: Footkerchief on November 30, 2009, 11:48:34 am
Update!
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/%7Emayday/upload/isodorf5.png)
Gibs? Haha, hell yes.
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2009, 12:02:06 pm
Of course it would take forever, and is currently impossible, and would only be worth doing when DF nears completion
Post by: Osmosis Jones on November 30, 2009, 12:12:25 pm
(http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2042/magman.png)
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 30, 2009, 12:53:34 pm
(http://img268.imageshack.us/img268/8633/sshumankidtest.png)
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2009, 12:59:40 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on November 30, 2009, 01:01:11 pm
Post by: DorfDorfingdorf on November 30, 2009, 01:55:20 pm
- Holy hell, you're actually Mike Mayday! /praise!
- For people contributing, this would look a lot more cohesive and, by proxy, a lot more professional, if everyone would strive to have the "same" isometric angle. Other than that, man, great artwork here.
- The magma man art NEEDS to look more like the lava beasts from Mighty Max. Honestly. I mean... great art work, but come on, you owe it to yourself.
- I'd like to add that this is going to be AWESOME once the new version is out with it's random creatures that are an amalgam of man and beast.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 30, 2009, 01:58:49 pm
- I'd like to add that this is going to be AWESOME once the new version is out with it's random creatures that are an amalgam of man and beast.
I hate to say it, but it's going to be awesomely broken. There won't be any good graphics for DF's randomized creatures for a very long time.
Post by: Vince on November 30, 2009, 05:24:04 pm
awesomely brokenSounds good! ;D
Post by: Lord Nightmare on November 30, 2009, 06:32:40 pm
LN
Post by: Jadael on November 30, 2009, 06:34:59 pm
- For people contributing, this would look a lot more cohesive and, by proxy, a lot more professional, if everyone would strive to have the "same" isometric angle. Other than that, man, great artwork here.
Someone else mentioned up there, a lot of what we have now looks like a normal DF graphics pack, not an isometric set. It isn't even isometric, it's side view. This is mostly because in isometric you mostly see the top of things, but that can be worked around.
Look at how much detail Super Mario RPG packs into a slightly under a 32x32 space:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/smrpg.png)
I think we should steal some tricks from them.
Small bodies, big hands and feet, little or no arms and legs.
Big heads, compared to their bodies, but the faces are only like 5x5 areas. The hats are far bigger, and much more recognizable.
Every profession group (crafter, miner, farmer, etc.) can have a colored uniform, and every sub-profession (engraver, metalsmith, herbalist, etc.) a unique hat.
Post by: Xandrin on November 30, 2009, 08:03:48 pm
- For people contributing, this would look a lot more cohesive and, by proxy, a lot more professional, if everyone would strive to have the "same" isometric angle. Other than that, man, great artwork here.
Someone else mentioned up there, a lot of what we have now looks like a normal DF graphics pack, not an isometric set. It isn't even isometric, it's side view. This is mostly because in isometric you mostly see the top of things, but that can be worked around.
Look at how much detail Super Mario RPG packs into a slightly under a 32x32 space:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/smrpg.png)
I think we should steal some tricks from them.
Small bodies, big hands and feet, little or no arms and legs.
Big heads, compared to their bodies, but the faces are only like 5x5 areas. The hats are far bigger, and much more recognizable.
Every profession group (crafter, miner, farmer, etc.) can have a colored uniform, and every sub-profession (engraver, metalsmith, herbalist, etc.) a unique hat.
While terrific, those sprites look too large to fit into the unit-cube to me. Further, I think issues will arise in trying to make the Dwarves at 3/4ths the height of a human. I too recognise that the majority of these sprites are not isometric, so I offer this little guy as a template:
(http://www.panelmonkey.org/gs/MaleSoldier-TO-KoL.png)
a Dwarf-ified version can simply reduce the legs/torso to a reasonable height. It wouldn't take much to mock up a few of the current humans/dwarves with the Tactics Ogre soldier as a base. The color/hat scheme still works for him, plus he has walking animations and proper facing too, without breaking SS's current style. What does the SS populace say?
Post by: Retro on November 30, 2009, 08:18:19 pm
What does the SS populace say?
Apperently "DON'T LEECH iMAGES DON'T LEECH iMAGES," heh. Might want to save and re-upload your image somewhere.
Post by: Xandrin on November 30, 2009, 08:26:13 pm
Here he is. Thanks Retro for pointing that out...it looks fine on my end :/
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 08:49:27 pm
Post by: Ixoran on November 30, 2009, 08:51:16 pm
(http://i48.tinypic.com/14x2tfl.png)Huzzah! Tactics ogre sprites!
Here he is. Thanks Retro for pointing that out...it looks fine on my end :/
Post by: jfsh on November 30, 2009, 09:07:25 pm
Anyway, I can never get past the opening screen in Stonesense. I mash "F9" over and over again and nothing happens. I even tried making an AutoHotKey script to send F9, and it seemed to do nothing. Anyone have any idea why?
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 09:07:42 pm
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2nk8mdj.png)
Post by: Xandrin on November 30, 2009, 09:11:02 pm
Anyways, i spent 5 minutes in MSpaint and did a full recolour of the TO sprite, and removed 3 pixels in height to see what he would look like.
He looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Isometric lines usually follow the "over 2, up 1" rule to simulate 30 degrees. However, I remodeled his eyeslits a little to be rounded.
Also his shoes are screwed up to high holy heaven. But this was a test colourswap for myself and the community (so try not to stare at them).
Also: Deon, your dwarves aren't Iso. That doesn't mean they aren't awesome...they just aren't Iso.
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 09:14:18 pm
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 09:40:16 pm
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2j0fiif.gif)
Post by: jarathor on November 30, 2009, 10:28:41 pm
I'm also opposed to the idea of just using different hats to differentiate the dwarf professions - in isometric perspective the hat will very likely become the predominant feature of the dwarf, and I'd rather look at non-iso dwarves than a field of iso hats. Also, since dwarves spend the vast majority of their lives underground, it always struck as odd that they would wear hats at all.
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 10:32:37 pm
Post by: jarathor on November 30, 2009, 10:54:42 pm
Also, redoing all of the creatures in the SMRPG style (If I'm not mistaken they were pre-rendered 3d, although the style could be mimicked without that) will take an ultra-dedicated person an insane amount of time.
Post by: Beefmo on November 30, 2009, 10:55:53 pm
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/skelolm1.png)
Was messing around on the side of my sprite sheet and came up with this too:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
To Deon: Thats an awesome rat! But I think it would be more suited to the "Large rat" sprite instead of giant.
Post by: soup on November 30, 2009, 10:57:08 pm
I'm all for heavily modifying a "base" sprite for the different races from one or more popular games. Drawing all of them by hand, not to mention the animation, would be incredibly difficult.
Anyway, my proposal is to find a decent animated base sprite that is simple enough to add noticeable detail (such as colors and hats for the different jobs, weapon size, etc...) and that also matches the "style" we have so far for stone sense.
Post by: Jadael on November 30, 2009, 10:59:42 pm
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/toad_fortress.png)
But no, we don't need to actually 3D render sprites, and especially not even copy the style exactly. I'm just saying, you know, actual isometric would be cool, and the proportions of these sprites work pretty well in a 32x32 box.
Post by: jocan2003 on November 30, 2009, 11:03:22 pm
McUrist Hungry: Sir we are low on food.
McUrist Mayor: To the meeting hall!! Time to eat some Shroom!
Post by: jarathor on November 30, 2009, 11:06:13 pm
If it does, that makes the idea of pure isometric sprites a little more attractive.
Post by: soup on November 30, 2009, 11:06:55 pm
The Mario sprites do indeed fit in the unit cube. I was surprised myself, actually. I went to make a Super Mario RPG graphics pack expecting that I'd have to reduce the sprites to like half size to fit.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/toad_fortress.png)
But no, we don't need to actually 3D render sprites, and especially not even copy the style exactly. I'm just saying, you know, actual isometric would be cool, and the proportions of these sprites work pretty well in a 32x32 box.
I agree with you. So far the only truly isometric sprites I've seen contributed are from Beefmo, which are wonderful. (I have not seen the earlier posts, so please, correct me if I'm wrong...)
I always dreamed of a tactics-ogre-esque isometric DF, much like in this concept:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If anyone would like, I could find a decent base set of sprite character proportions we could edit. It would be much easier than laying them out from scratch.
On the subject of isometric sprites - does DF have some sort of mechanism for detecting which direction a creature is facing? I've heard some vague references to facing having an effect in Adventure mode combat.
If it does, that makes the idea of pure isometric sprites a little more attractive.
I hadn't really thought of that, I assumed it was already implemented... How hard would it be to implement/detect character direction?
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on November 30, 2009, 11:25:32 pm
(http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/8562/sstroglodytetest.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on November 30, 2009, 11:29:35 pm
On the subject of isometric sprites - does DF have some sort of mechanism for detecting which direction a creature is facing? I've heard some vague references to facing having an effect in Adventure mode combat.
If it does, that makes the idea of pure isometric sprites a little more attractive.
The technical term for what happens in Adv. Mode is "focus," and it only exists during turns when a creature is making an attack. It happens in Fortress Mode too, since the combat mechanics are identical. I don't think DFhack currently detects it, and it wouldn't be much help anyway.
It would be pretty trivial for the program to track the previous position of each creature, though, and choose the facing appropriately. Less trivial would be the effort on the artists' part, having to draw an additional sprite for the up-left or up-right direction (it can be flipped, of course). A whole-hog implementation would require 3 more sprites (flippable left/right sprite, front sprite, back sprite), for a total of 5 sprites for character, and that's not counting animations.
Post by: Neonivek on November 30, 2009, 11:30:11 pm
And now Caveman Troglodytes (though I don't know what Trogs are)
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 11:37:33 pm
And I just thought about drawing them because I am tired of my ? ? ? in a chasm. Thank you for it! :D
Post by: Jadael on November 30, 2009, 11:53:36 pm
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/3d_dorfs.png)
Post by: Deon on November 30, 2009, 11:58:49 pm
Looks much better than my attempt (wasted ~ 30 min because i am a bad animator :D, never tried it before):
(http://i50.tinypic.com/33nhy0w.gif)
Did you paint over a 3d image or what?
Post by: Jadael on December 01, 2009, 12:00:44 am
If someone were to go over these by hand and touch them up, using a limited palette, I bet you could make them fit right in.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 12:02:56 am
P.S. Still, you've made those models in 10 min? Impressive :).
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 12:06:11 am
If we DID want 3D rendered sprites, it's actually not that hard at all. I put these together in like, ten minutes.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/3d_dorfs.png)
Whoa, those aren't bad at all. The specular map on the hats (if that's what's causing the white spots) looks a little funny, but that's... surprisingly good.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 12:08:01 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 12:33:20 am
If THIS is not isometry, I give up.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2isglec.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 12:37:00 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 12:59:23 am
(http://i47.tinypic.com/9i8bb6.png)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/vh7y3r.png)
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on December 01, 2009, 01:04:17 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 01:05:35 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 01:42:31 am
(http://i47.tinypic.com/246nfc9.png)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 01:45:12 am
Before mimicking the styles of the games cited in this thread that used isometric sprites, note that every one of them not only had character facing, but had walk animations to provide dynamic posing. Not one of them would have used the same art direction if they didn't. Indeed, the oft-cited mock-up of an isometric DF that soup cites wisely avoids using isometric sprites, despite the way the terrain is rendered:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This use of non-isometric sprites and iconic poses is not ugly, and it is not a shortcut. It is smart design. It takes into account that units in Dwarf Fortress have no facing and will not be animating out of a default pose.
That doesn't mean you can't have your dwarves looking to the side. It doesn't mean you can't respect the fact that the world is isometric when drawing them. Let me give you an example of a game that better represents the sort of situation Stonesense is in:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is the open source game Battle for Wesnoth. They have larger sprites than the 32x32 ones you're working with here, but that's not the point -- the point is their stylistic approach, which uses dynamic poses and vague, indeterminate facing, while still having clear isometric aspects, despite the game not even using a true isometric environment.
Unlike Super Mario RPG, Wesnoth takes place on a hex grid and supports only two displayed facings: left and right. These have no gameplay impact and are just a horizontal sprite flip. Characters have no walk cycles, only one frame attack animations, and yet must look engaging and dynamic. Despite these restrictions, Stonesense is even more limited in what it can display than Wesnoth is. I strongly recommend, therefore, that you carefully consider how you pose these characters, and take their hint: Your sprites will look much better to a casual viewer if you do not line them up in a default pose with a clear facing, as if they were waiting to be rotated and animated.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 01:54:04 am
Despite these restrictions, Stonesense is even more limited in what it can display than Wesnoth is. I strongly recommend, therefore, that you carefully consider how you pose these characters, and take their hint: Your sprites will look much better to a casual viewer if you do not line them up in a default pose with a clear facing, as if they were waiting to be rotated and animated.
It is currently more limited, yes. That will change, though, if not with Stonesense, then with a future visualizer. There's a nontrivial chance that facings will become more important in DF itself, too, for LOS purposes, proper stealth, setting polearms as a formation, etc.
Quote from: Toady One
Right now it doesn't have "facing", but it has a directional bias that builds up as you attack in a certain direction repeatedly (which then opens you up to attacks). That will be changed during the combat arc when I add something like a situational awareness skill. I'm always wary of a strict facing. I dislike vision cones and having to change direction manually. It just doesn't seem that realistic, especially if you are in an alert state. You have a neck to see all around you, which shouldn't take a turn to move and therefore you shouldn't have to control at all, the ability to use a stance that's more complicated than simply pointing in one direction (for example, how you position your legs can help determine whether you are more prone to being knocked over from the front or from the sides), and the ability to walk in all directions, not just the direction your head/body is facing. On the other hand, you should be able to sneak up being a lazy guard that's facing away from you (rather than just using a magical sneak mode like we've got now). I was thinking of doing momentum when you can differentiate between running and walking.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 01:56:26 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 02:00:37 am
Dwarfette Brewer:
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2cctds4.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 02:09:21 am
This isn't a limitation with Stonesense. It's a limitation with Dwarf Fortress. Until and unless Dwarf Fortress provides facing information and runs slowly enough that multiple animations become meaningful (and provides sufficient information that you can figure out which to play), no visualizer will be able to make default axially aligned poses like those seen in Super Mario RPG a good idea.
They don't look substantially less weird than other poses. The ones in the Wesnoth shot will have just as bad of a "moving backwards" effect -- the facing there is only marginally less pronounced. Axial aligning is a prudent choice in case facings do go in (see my edit above).
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on December 01, 2009, 02:18:41 am
:-*
Post by: Jadael on December 01, 2009, 02:39:36 am
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 01, 2009, 02:42:21 am
Post by: Dante on December 01, 2009, 02:45:04 am
We'll need an isometric icon of a big brown paper bag with a smiley written on it (in isometric perspective) with a bunch of legs/tentacles/etc coming out from underneath, as a generic icon for the 'horrors' in the next version.
Actually, this seems like a fairly elegant solution. Assuming there's no "base creature" that each randomised monster is based on, which could be directly extracted, then I can imagine this sort of default sprite fitting in well with the lighthearted, cartoony art Stonesense has now.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 02:59:17 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/mhegrd.png)
P.S. Parade:
(http://i47.tinypic.com/9i8bb6.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/246nfc9.png) (http://i49.tinypic.com/2cctds4.png) (http://i49.tinypic.com/mhegrd.png)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2cctds4.png) (http://i49.tinypic.com/mhegrd.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/9i8bb6.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/246nfc9.png)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 03:11:27 am
Let me make my assumption explicit here: Using an uglier and more jarring art style that is specifically designed to be used as a baseline for rotation and animation system based on the speculation that Dwarf Fortress might someday support such things months or years from now is not a sound idea. I propose you design sprites that will look good now, not a year or two from now, if ever.
If you disagree, or are even offended with my assertion that this is an "uglier" art style, I'm almost certain that what you're latching onto is the pseudo-3D effect. I fully agree that, as Deon puts it, this is nice. I don't wish to demean the artistic merit of these sprites. But they are not iconic -- they are systematically dry, directional poses that mimic a system designed for another game. They look like the character is facing a direction and waiting for animation to be applied, which is exactly what that art style is designed to do. You are wonderful artists and I know you can do better than that, and you don't need to model your work after a system that isn't suited for this game.
Sprites for Stonesense and any other visualizer or graphics set should be iconic. They should capture the spirit of the thing being depicted in all aspects -- shape, color, pose, even expression if you have the fidelity to do so. They should not imply a specificity that does not exist. Having a character look to the right or left as part of their dynamic pose is not even in the same league as having their head, shoulders, hips, and feet all pointing in the same direction with their hands at their sides like they're waiting for an animation sequence to be applied.
Take 7Ē Nickel's humans for example. They are:
- Looking to the side without implying a clear facing.
- Posed differently by profession.
- Very iconic.
You can monkey with their 3D-ness if you don't like it, but these sprites can very effectively represent entities in Dwarf Fortress. I strongly urge you not to regress away from this principle.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 03:13:16 am
The good thing is that it's easy to replace characters, and I already have almost everything in 2d, now it's time to try iso, it's just a fun activity for me.
If you don't like iso, you can use 2d easily.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 03:21:41 am
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 03:26:16 am
I may not come across as likable here, but that is because I am responding with alarm at what appears to be a near consensus on what I regard to be a very poorly thought-out art direction. Please be wary of falling into the trap of disagreeing with me just because I take a very forceful tone in my argument. I am suggesting how you can avoid alienating a number of potential users, and the merits of my argument should not be dismissed out of hand.
Let me make my assumption explicit here: Using an uglier and more jarring art style that is specifically designed to be used as a baseline for rotation and animation system based on the speculation that Dwarf Fortress might someday support such things months or years from now is not a sound idea. I propose you design sprites that will look good now, not a year or two from now, if ever.
If you disagree, or are even offended with my assertion that this is an "uglier" art style, I'm almost certain that what you're latching onto is the pseudo-3D effect. I fully agree that, as Deon puts it, this is nice. I don't wish to demean the artistic merit of these sprites. But they are not iconic -- they are systematically dry, directional poses that mimic a system designed for another game. They look like the character is facing a direction and waiting for animation to be applied, which is exactly what that art style is designed to do. You are wonderful artists and I know you can do better than that, and you don't need to model your work after a system that isn't suited for this game.
Sprites for Stonesense and any other visualizer or graphics set should be iconic. They should capture the spirit of the thing being depicted in all aspects -- shape, color, pose, even expression if you have the fidelity to do so. They should not imply a specificity that does not exist. Having a character look to the right or left as part of their dynamic pose is not even in the same league as having their head, shoulders, hips, and feet all pointing in the same direction with their hands at their sides like they're waiting for an animation sequence to be applied.
Take 7Ē Nickel's humans for example. They are:
- Looking to the side without implying a clear facing.
- Posed differently by profession.
- Very iconic.
You can monkey with their 3D-ness if you don't like it, but these sprites can very effectively represent entities in Dwarf Fortress. I strongly urge you not to regress away from this principle.
I can see where you are coming from, but I think that creating both iconic and isometric sprites would not hurt the progress and/or success of stone sense. I'm sure the artists contributing would be glad to do both. Beefmo's isometric sprites are great, and 7Ē Nickel's human sprites are amazing as well.
Personally, I would love to see both sets made using the style expressed by both of them.
Iconic sprites might be the most practical system as of now, but it'd be nice to have some progress made for when DF does implement face direction.
tldr; We aren't losing any progress by using both art styles, why choose?
EDIT: I do actually see what you mean, I would prefer to see an iconic DF sheet finished before the isometric one. (Especially 7c Nickel's.) It would be unfortunate to see potential iconic artists work specifically with isometric sprites, instead of iconic or both.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 03:26:30 am
Also, another reason to have a female mayor:
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2l9qple.png)
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 03:32:46 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2ytxjpx.gif)
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:39:33 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 03:40:32 am
Nice fox :D
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 03:45:29 am
I would like to help with some of the iconic sprites as well, I wonder if Nickel has any dwarf base sprites that need assigned jobs...
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 03:49:09 am
They should not imply a specificity that does not exist.
This is a great-sounding principle but it falls flat pretty fast when you examine it. Does DF specify the style of the breastplates, the height of the grass, the texture of a wall, or the length of a sword? No. Does that mean that artists shouldn't depict these things for fear of making an invalid implication? Of course not. The point of a visualizer (and even of most graphics sets) is not only to depict the details that DF does contain, but fill in the details on which it's silent.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 04:10:56 am
(http://i50.tinypic.com/nqspe1.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/2925y8g.png)
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 04:11:18 am
I think I should clarify my use of the word iconic, since I apparently gave the impression that I meant it as a synonym for 2D. I'm actually saying that both 2D and isometric sprites should have an iconic quality. They should be memorable and symbolic, interesting and representative. Deon's mayor, for example, has an upturned hand, and a large mouth, as if she's speaking and gesturing. Those are what I mean by iconic elements in pose and expression.
They should not imply a specificity that does not exist.
This is a great-sounding principle but it falls flat pretty fast when you examine it. Does DF specify the style of the breastplates, the height of the grass, the texture of a wall, or the length of a sword? No. Does that mean that artists shouldn't depict these things for fear of making an invalid implication? Of course not. The point of a visualizer is not only to depict the details that DF does contain, but fill in the details on which it's silent.
Taken literally and to an absurd extreme, you're certainly right, but you are misinterpreting my point by a fair distance when taking it that far. Aligning all your dwarves to have a southeast facing is not just adding details -- it is like making every workshop in your visualizer look like it's made out of microcline and justifying it by saying you don't know what material the workshop is really made out of. If you don't know what material it's made out of, sketch in the details and use a generic gray rock without specifying with such precision as to jar the viewer with the degree of its inaccuracy. If you don't have sprites for every type of tree, better to make your generic tree sprite look like an oak than a willow. I know my dwarf travelling to the north is not facing to the east -- so why is your sprite so overwhelmingly dead set on convincing me otherwise? The purpose of a visualizer is not to contradict what I already know about my fortress, and it should avoid doing so.
As I said in the post you are quoting, there's a big difference between having a character look into the right and aligning everything's head, shoulders, chest, hips, and feet in the same way on the same axis. One is artistic expression to provide interest and detail to the sprite -- the other uses a bad design principle that will tend to strip away the iconic quality and encourage a literal interpretation of facing, giving a false and disjointed feel to your fortress. Following this guideline and having isometric sprites are not mutually exclusive.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 04:15:23 am
Why are there so many words and so small amount of sprites/ideas? It's easy to make words, try to help instead :).
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 04:28:22 am
If you don't know what material it's made out of, sketch in the details and use a generic gray rock without specifying with such precision as to jar the viewer with the degree of its inaccuracy. If you don't have sprites for every type of tree, better to make your generic tree sprite look like an oak than a willow. I know my dwarf travelling to the north is not facing to the east -- so why is your sprite so overwhelmingly dead set on convincing me otherwise?
That's your opinion. Mine is that all the "iconic" sprites I've seen, I find more jarring, because none of them look like they actually belong in the world that Stonesense depicts. The argument you're starting boils down to "look good"/"doesn't look good," and no amount of words will change anyone's views on such a basic point of aesthetics. There are artists here who seem to agree with you, so for the sake of this thread, just be happy with that and don't bother trying to convince everyone else.
Post by: Jadael on December 01, 2009, 04:32:06 am
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 04:36:40 am
Post by: Jadael on December 01, 2009, 04:39:18 am
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 04:43:39 am
There's a difference between making a workshop out of microcline when there's one and between making a dwarf to face east while there's no facing. First case it disinformation, second case is assumption.
Why are there so many words and so small amount of sprites/ideas? It's easy to make words, try to help instead :).
There is a difference in that in one case the game does provide information contradicting it, but with facing, the player can very easily see when a facing is wrong, and that is the correlation I draw. If the player will know you are depicting incorrect information, don't stress that information. Thus, it is important to not emphasize the facing so much as to make it a significant aspect of the sprite.
With regard to why I don't contribute sprites, it's because I'm not an artist, actually, I'm a designer, which in the context of the game development industry means almost by definition that I am a thoroughly irritating person whose job includes writing papers and arguing about things.
That's your opinion. Mine is that all the "iconic" sprites I've seen, I find more jarring, because none of them look like they actually belong in the world that Stonesense depicts. The argument you're starting boils down to "look good"/"doesn't look good," and no amount of words will change anyone's views on such a basic point of aesthetics. There are artists here who seem to agree with you, so for the sake of this thread, just be happy with that and don't bother trying to convince everyone else.
I think if you review the post you are quoting, you will realize that I am not advocating specifically for 2D sprites, and that I am using iconic as an adjective that applies to both 2D and isometric sprites. I specifically said that in the paragraph above the one quoting you, actually. In fact, I'm advocating a better way to give a sense of 3D that will be more visually pleasing without sacrificing the priorities you are describing. Nor am I dead set on convincing everyone to develop a 2D sprite set and abandon isometric sprites.
I must implore you to review what I've actually said to review whether you actually have a disagreement with me or not, since my impression from your responses has been fairly consistent that you do not actually disagree with the fundamental point I'm making. Maybe I'm poorly communicating the point, but I suspect it's more that I'm coming across as excessively critical.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 04:48:03 am
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 04:57:50 am
I must implore you to review what I've actually said to review whether you actually have a disagreement with me or not, since my impression from your responses has been fairly consistent that you do not actually disagree with the fundamental point I'm making.
Okay:
aligning everything's head, shoulders, chest, hips, and feet in the same way on the same axis ... a bad design principle ... giving a false and disjointed feel to your fortress
There's something specific I disagree with. That's okay, we're allowed to have different viewpoints on aesthetic issues. The other thing I disagree with is your attitude that you're "advocating a better way," apparently "better" in some objective sense since you're convinced everyone else should agree with you.
Maybe I'm poorly communicating the point, but I suspect it's more that I'm coming across as excessively critical.
Conciseness would be good.
Post by: ank on December 01, 2009, 05:07:15 am
are you on meth or something? how did you make that set so fast?
Awesome!
i vote for Jadael as art guy, that way art will be done by next friday :)
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 06:29:17 am
I'm not saying nobody should make sprites like Beefmo's, I think they're lovely. Nor am I even advocating a non-isometric sprite system. I am defending such a system, since several people have criticized the fact that most artists have submitted non-isometric sprites, but I'm also arguing that you can still use an isometric system without looking to Super Mario RPG and Tactics Ogre idling stances for your isometric poses, which I submit is a bad idea no matter what angle you prefer to look at your sprites from. I don't wish to insult Jadael and Xandrin here, mind -- I truly adore Jadael's 3D dwarves based on the Super Mario RPG style (I'm just very strongly arguing that this style is inappropriate for actual use), and Xandrin was suggesting Tactics Ogre with the idea of having multiple facings and walk animations, not with the intent of just using a single facing's idle frame to represent the entire unit.
I think I should clarify my use of the word iconic, since I apparently gave the impression that I meant it as a synonym for 2D. I'm actually saying that both 2D and isometric sprites should have an iconic quality. They should be memorable and symbolic, interesting and representative. Deon's mayor, for example, has an upturned hand, and a large mouth, as if she's speaking and gesturing. Those are what I mean by iconic elements in pose and expression.They should not imply a specificity that does not exist.
This is a great-sounding principle but it falls flat pretty fast when you examine it. Does DF specify the style of the breastplates, the height of the grass, the texture of a wall, or the length of a sword? No. Does that mean that artists shouldn't depict these things for fear of making an invalid implication? Of course not. The point of a visualizer is not only to depict the details that DF does contain, but fill in the details on which it's silent.
Taken literally and to an absurd extreme, you're certainly right, but you are misinterpreting my point by a fair distance when taking it that far. Aligning all your dwarves to have a southeast facing is not just adding details -- it is like making every workshop in your visualizer look like it's made out of microcline and justifying it by saying you don't know what material the workshop is really made out of. If you don't know what material it's made out of, sketch in the details and use a generic gray rock without specifying with such precision as to jar the viewer with the degree of its inaccuracy. If you don't have sprites for every type of tree, better to make your generic tree sprite look like an oak than a willow. I know my dwarf travelling to the north is not facing to the east -- so why is your sprite so overwhelmingly dead set on convincing me otherwise? The purpose of a visualizer is not to contradict what I already know about my fortress, and it should avoid doing so.
As I said in the post you are quoting, there's a big difference between having a character look into the right and aligning everything's head, shoulders, chest, hips, and feet in the same way on the same axis. One is artistic expression to provide interest and detail to the sprite -- the other uses a bad design principle that will tend to strip away the iconic quality and encourage a literal interpretation of facing, giving a false and disjointed feel to your fortress. Following this guideline and having isometric sprites are not mutually exclusive.
I completely agree with your point Fox, but I think people are generalizing your use of "iconic" as an art method, not an art style.
I think all Fox is trying to say is he doesn't want dwarf fortress to look like dwarf habbo hotel. He wants the poses to be in their respective "action stances", drawn to be appropriate for any situation, weapons raised, and full of energy.
And I agree with him (if that is indeed his point). We want to see dynamic poses; job classes with different personalities, not just different clothes... something that really brings out the essence of the character, whether it be 2.5d (isometric) or 2d.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 06:34:16 am
I meant iconic as the whole holding a scroll for the diplomat thing. That they're in 2d...is less relevant.
Post by: Seuss on December 01, 2009, 06:37:41 am
Things will be re-written, re-drawn, flipped upside-down and tossed in the bin. As long as people are willing and think things could be improved things will change.
Don't fret too much.
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 07:04:32 am
Arguing over the internet is less pointless then arguing in real life.
"Oh yer?" I hear you cry "Why don't you do something then?".
I will when GIMP stops being an @ss and lets me do something.
In short, stop arguing, stop spouting your opinion because this is the internet. 97% of the time an argument will either go to flaming or continue and drag others into it in till a mod gets involved and starts waving The Hammer around.
Also I don't think that either side will budge in there ideas. So instead of arguing, post an example of what you think and compare.
...Holy carp did I just write that spontainiusly?
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 07:05:46 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2jfc5lx.gif)
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 07:14:55 am
Alsp: run for the hills! Dwarven Druid!
(http://i50.tinypic.com/3090qr9.png)
Post by: dreiche2 on December 01, 2009, 07:48:42 am
It is currently more limited, yes. That will change, though, if not with Stonesense, then with a future visualizer. There's a nontrivial chance that facings will become more important in DF itself, too, for LOS purposes, proper stealth, setting polearms as a formation, etc.Quote from: Toady OneRight now it doesn't have "facing", but it has a directional bias that builds up as you attack in a certain direction repeatedly (which then opens you up to attacks). That will be changed during the combat arc when I add something like a situational awareness skill. I'm always wary of a strict facing. I dislike vision cones and having to change direction manually. It just doesn't seem that realistic, especially if you are in an alert state. You have a neck to see all around you, which shouldn't take a turn to move and therefore you shouldn't have to control at all, the ability to use a stance that's more complicated than simply pointing in one direction (for example, how you position your legs can help determine whether you are more prone to being knocked over from the front or from the sides), and the ability to walk in all directions, not just the direction your head/body is facing. On the other hand, you should be able to sneak up being a lazy guard that's facing away from you (rather than just using a magical sneak mode like we've got now). I was thinking of doing momentum when you can differentiate between running and walking.
Actually, the quote by Toady (emphasis mine) doesn't exactly argue for a strict facing system, does it?
If you guys care for another opinion, I'm tending to agree with Jonathan in principle, although he seems to be a little bit assertive about it. To his defence, while he has a strong opinion about what system is better, he actually only started to make his case after other people asserted that pure isometric is better and should be the style for Stonesense, without further discussion.
So yeah, I don't think people need to get into a big argument here. There's good reasons for both opinions, and I think Jonathan has a good point at least in that pure isometric should not be considered better by default just because it's more 'realistic' (etc.). In the end, it's going to be the creators of Stonesense that have to decide (and obviously, nothing has to be set in stone forever).
Edit: typo
Post by: kaypy on December 01, 2009, 08:00:05 am
OK, maybe someone has talked about this in here, but the thread is getting really long.Rather unnavigable, yes.
Quote
Anyway, I can never get past the opening screen in Stonesense. I mash "F9" over and over again and nothing happens. I even tried making an AutoHotKey script to send F9, and it seemed to do nothing. Anyone have any idea why?Is DF running? If so what version? Does the screen have "Could not find DF" or something on it?
In the end, it's going to be the creators of Stonesense that have to decide (and obviously, nothing has to be set in stone forever).I think the graphics we want is "All of them"- we need to cope with mods to the underlying DF, so we ought to be able to take swapping graphics styles in our stride 8-)
We're making a big configurability push right now, so hopefully next release it'll be time for people to start organizing these sprites into swappable graphics packs...
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 09:06:05 am
Guess who by the number of cloaks and nothing else. One of cloaks is semi-transparent >.>.
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 01, 2009, 09:28:52 am
The male ones are super cool though.
Post by: MMad on December 01, 2009, 10:45:47 am
I think Jonathan has a good point at least in that pure isometric should not be considered better by default just because it's more 'realistic' (etc.).
I agree, and I furthermore suspect that if you want to run SS alongside DF in real-time, non-isometric icons would be less jarring, since they wouldn't be moving backwards. However, if you're not planning to run it while playing but only use it to check out the fortress while paused, isometric creatures that seem to fit in the game grid might be less jarring. As with the whole ASCII vs. graphics debate in DF proper, it's probably going to be highly subjective. :)
At this point, since progress on the SS art will only continue as long as the artists here want to keep working on it, I'd encourage people to just keep doing whatever they feel like doing, in whatever style they want to experiment with. If you end up with a couple of different styles, that might be a good thing - trial and error will decide what works best for the "official"/default style, and anything else could grow into it's own custom thing.
(Of course, if the primary owners of this project want things to progress in a specific direction for now, in order to get a more-or-less coherent base set up and running, now might be a good idea to mention it. :))
Btw, long-time lurker, first-time poster. This thing is pretty awesome and awesomely pretty. Keep it up. :)
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 11:22:24 am
Deon those female dwarves are scary (http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/gobticons3/eek.gif)Scary? There's something wrong with your ego :D.
The male ones are super cool though.
What do you mean by "scary"? I tried hard :(.
And DM was a joke, I plan to make a more serious job later. Also, male ones are only in development, I am making them ISO to be in the same style.
Here's a "real" (not a joke) hammerer, an executioner of your fortress (again, female):
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2qwhcgk.png)
The list of "serious" sprites which I consider to be complete:
Dwarves (female):
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2z8ylpx.png) - queen
(http://i46.tinypic.com/2l9qple.png) - mayor
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2iiz77d.png) - druid (usable in rare case)
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2qwhcgk.png) - hammerer
(http://i47.tinypic.com/9i8bb6.png) - peasant
(http://i47.tinypic.com/246nfc9.png) - hunter
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2cctds4.png) - brewer
(http://i49.tinypic.com/mhegrd.png) - milker
(http://i50.tinypic.com/nqspe1.png) - miner
(http://i47.tinypic.com/2925y8g.png) - stoneworker (mason/engraver)
I plan to finish civillians first, then nobles, then jump on military (not literally :P).
Post by: dyze on December 01, 2009, 11:26:54 am
I completely agree with your point Fox, but I think people are generalizing your use of "iconic" as an art method, not an art style.
I think all Fox is trying to say is he doesn't want dwarf fortress to look like dwarf habbo hotel. He wants the poses to be in their respective "action stances", drawn to be appropriate for any situation, weapons raised, and full of energy.
And I agree with him (if that is indeed his point). We want to see dynamic poses; job classes with different personalities, not just different clothes... something that really brings out the essence of the character, whether it be 2.5d (isometric) or 2d.
i also agree with fox. even though both the iso and 2d styles in this thread are really nice, imo we need to focus on finishing one coherent tileset first, and we're still a long way from that. personally i think we should go with Nickels style, since its clean and simple, no issues. with iso its so much much more work. even more so now that people have started animating aswell. backsides to every creature...
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 11:31:38 am
I.E. If I stay interested (read: enjoy my own sprites and get no negative feedback) I am going to make a list of all the creatures.
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 11:39:18 am
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 11:52:20 am
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2z8ylpx.png)
Thank you, Metal Militia.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 12:01:25 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 12:02:20 pm
...could be a little more ostentatious in crown. Presently looks like "red druid".
I was thinking more like Opera singer.
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 01, 2009, 12:05:36 pm
Scary? There's something wrong with your ego :D.I think that it's the exposed cleavage+uniformly humongous boobs+ruby red lips+typical dwarf figure.
What do you mean by "scary"? I tried hard :(.
And the hunter is wearing a bikini five sizes too small.
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 12:06:11 pm
WHY DO YOU HATE ME SO GIMP 2.0?!1??one??!
Post by: ank on December 01, 2009, 12:09:54 pm
well, this requires that there is some sort of XML condition tag like "NeigbourObject [GameID] [Direction]"
to make the chairs face towards the table, is ther esuch a tag?
EDIT: and one more thing, how do i figure out what GameID diffrent stuff has? i've been thinking about doing some wall and engraving work.
Post by: jonask84 on December 01, 2009, 12:11:54 pm
I hope Jonask comes soon and puts it in a right route :D.
And here I am folks! There's been a lot of tl;dr posts here of late, so please forgive me if I missed some vital point someone was making. But here are my thoughts:
Jonathan S. Fox makes a damn good point, and that is that we should never ever loose our minds over some concept. We gotta stay critical to what we do, and he simply asks "Does this isometric creature style suit us best?".
Personally, I think something in-between would be best: Iconic yet isometric creatures.
But it doesn't really matter much, for one simple reason: We fully support interchangeable creature packs. So if you personally like Deon's chesty isometric dwarfs, just plop his Dwarfs.xml and Dwarfs.png into your content folder (That's right, we're improving the content system in a big way!), or don't! Pick and choose, just like with DF tilesets.
Other than that I think Seuss made a lot of sense when he said:
Stonesence is an evolving project.With a big emphasis on Don't fret too much. ;)
Things will be re-written, re-drawn, flipped upside-down and tossed in the bin. As long as people are willing and think things could be improved things will change.
Don't fret too much.
And now to help someone
Anyway, I can never get past the opening screen in Stonesense. I mash "F9" over and over again and nothing happens. I even tried making an AutoHotKey script to send F9, and it seemed to do nothing. Anyone have any idea why?
Did you try tabbing back and forth a bit? sometimes when I play the keyboard doesn't register right with the Stonesense window.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 12:41:05 pm
I've started to work on male sprites to complement females.
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2dj506.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/9i8bb6.png)
(http://i46.tinypic.com/i2oe1k.png) (http://i50.tinypic.com/nqspe1.png)
(http://i48.tinypic.com/4hcqrm.png) (http://i46.tinypic.com/29eku49.png) (http://i46.tinypic.com/zujkhg.png)
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 12:45:53 pm
Post by: Winterbrass on December 01, 2009, 12:54:42 pm
I have been thinking about Thrones in relation to tables, becuase it has allways bothered med that Thrones where depicted as stools(in this and graphic tilesets), becuase Throne is far more dwarfish than a stool.Something else which is related that bugs me is that floodgates built in a 1x3 segment will have the middle floodgate flipped to the wrong direction about half the time. I noticed this while constructing a dome. On the eastern and southern 'walls' of the dome, both 1x3 sets of floodgates had the middle door rotated 90 degrees from the two surrounding doors, as if it wasn't properly taking its cue from the floodgates next to it.
well, this requires that there is some sort of XML condition tag like "NeigbourObject [GameID] [Direction]"
to make the chairs face towards the table, is ther esuch a tag?
EDIT: and one more thing, how do i figure out what GameID diffrent stuff has? i've been thinking about doing some wall and engraving work.
Another bit of a peeve is that glass windows are so thin and are without corners, and glass blocks, like all other masonry-based walls, appear exactly identical. Either I have an opaque dome, or I attempt to fake it with windows and have to deal with overhanging floor tiles.
I'd help out instead of 'complaining', but I lack in the graphics-fu.
But yes, to the best of my knowledge, the information needed is on the Google project site as listed in the OP.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 01:11:10 pm
Another bit of a peeve is that glass windows are so thin and are without corners, and glass blocks, like all other masonry-based walls, appear exactly identical. Either I have an opaque dome, or I attempt to fake it with windows and have to deal with overhanging floor tiles.Wood blocks and metal blocks are also built with masonry.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 01:21:12 pm
Scary? There's something wrong with your ego :D.
What do you mean by "scary"? I tried hard :(.
I think that it's the exposed cleavage+uniformly humongous boobs+ruby red lips+typical dwarf figure.
Yup. They look like Barbie BBW Edition or something, I don't even know.
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on December 01, 2009, 01:26:05 pm
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6370/humansinaction.png)
I had an old save where human traders were visiting.
Post by: Deon on December 01, 2009, 02:29:34 pm
Plus, all the outfits have giant external nipples. It just makes you seem creepy. I believe someone requested something like this earlier.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6370/humansinaction.png)
I had an old save where human traders were visiting.
I was just going crazy with all the stuff. So I followed the style. Note: no external nipples on the males :D.
Post by: Jadael on December 01, 2009, 02:35:20 pm
Post by: Xandrin on December 01, 2009, 02:44:14 pm
Specific points that come to mind: colouration in the Humans vs. Dwarves: the dwarf's clothes use significantly fewer colours than a human equivalent. The eye styles are also different (this is probably the most glaring of the errors).
The animals also appear to be washed out or faded and not drawn with the same colour intensity as the other sprites.
Personally (and I would like a final word from a dev on this lengthy topic), I would rather have a complete set of 2D, uniform sprites at this stage in the game than go through redrawing all that we've done. I love the styles and I love the gestures of the "current" sprites (that's not to say they won't change).
As for object facing direction, it should be a piece of cake. Each chair can simply check in a radius of 1 around itself for a table. If a table exists, draw the sprite in the appropriate direction. Similarly, creatures can change face by tracking their own movement. If 1 frame ago I was East of where I am now, draw sprite facing West, else draw facing East.
Am I the only one that's bothered by how many passable tiles Stonesense has that look like they're impassable? Trade depot and tables are the main offenders, I think.
Trade depot needs its own unique sprite combo (like the carpenter shop/still) rather than a mashing columns into an X shape.
Also dwarf tits creep me out.
Post by: Raphite1 on December 01, 2009, 02:54:19 pm
Post by: Winterbrass on December 01, 2009, 02:57:26 pm
To the best of my knowledge, a constructed wall made from wood blocks still uses Carpentry, rather than Masonry. Glass and stone, however, do use Masonry.Another bit of a peeve is that glass windows are so thin and are without corners, and glass blocks, like all other masonry-based walls, appear exactly identical. Either I have an opaque dome, or I attempt to fake it with windows and have to deal with overhanging floor tiles.Wood blocks and metal blocks are also built with masonry.
Also, the female dwarves frighten the hell out of me.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 03:18:21 pm
Plus, all the outfits have giant external nipples. It just makes you seem creepy. I believe someone requested something like this earlier.See? 7hatchcover's humans look great in there. Those dwarves...less so, as others note. The animals are in between.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6370/humansinaction.png)
I had an old save where human traders were visiting.
Post by: MatrexsVigil on December 01, 2009, 03:29:00 pm
Post by: Zaratustra on December 01, 2009, 03:32:35 pm
(http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/shale.png)
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 03:33:26 pm
As one of the women on the forum, please don't make your female dwarves look like whores. It's fine that they have large bossoms (because I really think dwarven women would have a giant chest), but you don't need to show the nipples. The light pink lips on the female miner seem to look fine.
I was wondering when I would finally see a post like this.
I agree with you (also their bodies are a bit too rotund) but even now I still can't believe the female dwarves were made seriously... even though Deon keeps saying they are.
Post by: Firgof Umbra on December 01, 2009, 03:35:26 pm
I believe all the sprites on the screen as shown are just fine. The only issue is that of detail when it comes to how the sprites are coming across. For instance, one set of sprites has detailed lighting and the other side seems to largely ignore light. If this were solved that problem would vanish and the two sets of sprites would blend distinctively well. I like the idea of races being visually distinct even to the point of being abrupt, which I believe only reinforces the fact that these are two completely separate cultures; such a distinctive contrast can even be found in history if you would compare English fashion of the 1600s to Japanese fashion:
English Fashion (1640s)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Rembrandt_Harmensz._van_Rijn_080.jpg/473px-Rembrandt_Harmensz._van_Rijn_080.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/1c/Charles_I_by_Daniel_Mytens.jpg/366px-Charles_I_by_Daniel_Mytens.jpg)
Japanese Fashion (16th Century)
(http://www.marlamallett.com/Kimonos-Uchikake-2.jpg)
but they should still share lighting detail and the way materials are drawn; even if the Dwarves were far more subdued or subtle in their details.
For instance, Humans here are represented with very highly-faceted and intricate pieces of armor and clothing. Dwarven clothing is simple, dyed mono, and undecorative. Functional versus fanciful. Seems a perfect contrast for getting the information of 'what race is this' across immediately even irrespective to the heights in either sprite.
I would also like to say that I agree that the nipples are a bit ridiculous. I find it 'out of character' for female dwarves to be so overt in representing and displaying their sexuality and appeal to fashion just the same as I would find it out of character for male dwarves to have unbuttoned shirts, trimmed faces, and heavily emphasized bright colors on their clothing. :P
Post by: jonask84 on December 01, 2009, 03:37:28 pm
am I shaling it right
(http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/shale.png)
Yes, from where I'm standing that looks just right. Nice work btw :)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 01, 2009, 03:38:17 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 03:40:08 pm
It needs work.
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 03:42:50 pm
Also I've got rid of GIMP and got Graphics Gale so can someone tell me the diemensions of the box that a single unit is in?
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 01, 2009, 03:44:45 pm
Plus, all the outfits have giant external nipples. It just makes you seem creepy. I believe someone requested something like this earlier.
(http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/6370/humansinaction.png)
I had an old save where human traders were visiting.
Heheh, those human traders look like they could take over the whole fort if they decided to make trouble. Best not to demand they hand over their goods, I think...
Post by: Sphalerite on December 01, 2009, 03:48:01 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 03:50:56 pm
They don't seem to hold anything and their arms look immobile.
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 03:57:22 pm
Well another problem is that they are comical to the point where you question their ability to fulfill their duties (and there is a hint of fetishism). They also sharply contrast the dwarves and create gender inequality in a situation where they are exactly the same for the most part.
They don't seem to hold anything and their arms look immobile.
Now your knit picking.
Ok people generally don't like Deons female sprites but thats going to far. Do you think he would really do something like that?
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 03:59:20 pm
As for Knit Picking I prefer calling it being Critical. I usually stop myself from doing so but I guess I forgot to close the floodgates.
Not sure if I should appologise or leave it
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 04:07:29 pm
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 01, 2009, 04:07:46 pm
Wait you mean Fetishism? I would have thought it would be subconscious rather then intentional (hense the hint)I vaguely remember Deon stating something about how he deeply enjoys very large-breasted women, so I guess it's intentional.
Anyway, from an artistic point of view I really enjoy them Deon. I believe colour choices are improving. It's just that I wouldn't enjoy seeing those sprites in my game :P
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 04:07:50 pm
Ok people generally don't like Deons female sprites but thats going to far. Do you think he would really do something like that?
Do you mean the "hint of fetishism" part? That's a pretty apt description of Deon's style, I don't think he'd even object to the label. See the picture below:
Another quick sketch: A legendary thrower.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(no offense meant here, Deon, I'm just trying to provide some context for people's understanding of your work)
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 04:10:35 pm
Hey if you didn't mean it, then you didn't mean it. Spure of the moment thigs are forgiveable.
On the Contrary I meant it
I just usually have enough sense to censor myself.
Or wait you meant in the other way didn't you?
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 04:13:14 pm
@Neonivek = What? You've lost me, lol.
Post by: KillHour on December 01, 2009, 04:15:27 pm
Ok people generally don't like Deons female sprites but thats going to far. Do you think he would really do something like that?
Do you mean the "hint of fetishism" part? That's a pretty apt description of Deon's style, I don't think he'd even object to the label. See the picture below:Another quick sketch: A legendary thrower.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's pretty awesome, and I definitely think Gimp Fortress should be a mod. However, I don't think they should be the default. ;)
Also, what the hell is up with her chin? I don't think I've ever seen a manlier chin, even on a man.
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 04:16:56 pm
When I nitpicked Deon's creations I meant every word of it.
I just usually have enough sense not to say these things for a variety of reasons (For example it didn't take that long for someone to attack my oppinion outside the basis of whether or not it was true)
Unless you meant "Didn't mean it" as in I didn't mean to post it as a whole.
Post by: Keita on December 01, 2009, 04:19:55 pm
@Neoniverk = I think I understand you. You meant what you said but people kinda burst out from time to time. Looking at my post I guess I didn't make that very clear lol sorry = P
Post by: The Doctor on December 01, 2009, 04:53:53 pm
They seem simple, and get the point across. D:
Post by: jarathor on December 01, 2009, 05:19:18 pm
Specific points that come to mind: colouration in the Humans vs. Dwarves: the dwarf's clothes use significantly fewer colours than a human equivalent. The eye styles are also different (this is probably the most glaring of the errors).
Well, those dwarves are actually much older than the ones I have updated to try and fit in better with 7c Nickles style - I guess since I spoilered all my updates you must've missed them (or chose not to read entirety of over-long thread, which is perfectly understandable) so here's the latest ones posted again:
Spoiler: Updated Dwarves (click to show/hide)
I'll try and get an image that shows them side by side - they don't have exactly the same style, but I could try and make a few that fit more closely to his style to see how they look.
Post by: LegoLord on December 01, 2009, 05:48:10 pm
Post by: Shoehead on December 01, 2009, 06:05:01 pm
I have to agree with the majority about Deon's lady dwarves. Several look like they wouldn't exactly be safe for work. Enter the lady dungeon master as an example.
Deon said that was a joke. Have you ever looked at what Dungeon Masters wear?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 06:12:45 pm
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on December 01, 2009, 06:22:19 pm
Reading back a few pages it wads also noted that there will be improvements in the area of being able to pick and choose the sprites that you wish to use.
I guess the bottom line seems to be that if you don't like the sprites, you won't have to use them. Just please don't attempt to censor him based upon your personal preferences.
BTW the shirtless male Dwarves are pretty outrageous as well. I love it :o ;D
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 01, 2009, 06:23:49 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 01, 2009, 06:46:37 pm
I have been thinking about Thrones in relation to tables, becuase it has allways bothered med that Thrones where depicted as stools(in this and graphic tilesets), becuase Throne is far more dwarfish than a stool.Thats a nice idea.
Quote
well, this requires that there is some sort of XML condition tag like "NeigbourObject [GameID] [Direction]"There is a tag to detect type of the neighbor, like
to make the chairs face towards the table, is ther esuch a tag?
<NeighbourOfType dir="East" value="gear_assembly"/>
I really need to fix the wiki for a4 sometime before a5 comes out... Your best bet might be either poking around the other xml files for info or, if you can understand the code to any degree, looking at the BlockCondition classes
Quote
EDIT: and one more thing, how do i figure out what GameID diffrent stuff has? i've been thinking about doing some wall and engraving work.Currently we are pretty close to the limit of what we can actually detect wrt walls- we cant tell blocks from raw constructed walls, or engraved from smooth, for example. Or very much about the materials used. Also, the walls havent reached the level of configurability of anything else.
Some stuff you can tell by running in debugger mode and checking the information it gives you.
Post by: kaypy on December 01, 2009, 06:54:40 pm
Something else which is related that bugs me is that floodgates built in a 1x3 segment will have the middle floodgate flipped to the wrong direction about half the time. I noticed this while constructing a dome. On the eastern and southern 'walls' of the dome, both 1x3 sets of floodgates had the middle door rotated 90 degrees from the two surrounding doors, as if it wasn't properly taking its cue from the floodgates next to it.Ooops. That would be because it wasn't. Looks like the config for that is rather lacking.
Quote
Another bit of a peeve is that glass windows are so thin and are without corners, and glass blocks, like all other masonry-based walls, appear exactly identical. Either I have an opaque dome, or I attempt to fake it with windows and have to deal with overhanging floor tiles.I need to have another look at options for reading in wall tiles, but it currently isnt looking hopeful for being able to detect glass walls.
Quote
I'd help out instead of 'complaining', but I lack in the graphics-fu.Some things are just plain oversights, so complaining can be helpful, too.
edit: Do your floodgates work better if you grab the latest floodgate config from
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/buildings/Floodgate.xml (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/buildings/Floodgate.xml)
Post by: Benny on December 01, 2009, 07:15:05 pm
If we DID want 3D rendered sprites, it's actually not that hard at all. I put these together in like, ten minutes.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/3d_dorfs.png)
personally I love these, the fact that they've already been modelled in 3d means that 'were' DF to start use facings, the works already done to get them updated. Plus they have the iconic look something like this is bound to have
Post by: Jadael on December 01, 2009, 07:22:21 pm
Maybe I'll just go through and randomly rotate each one so they all face mostly towards the camera but with variation, instead of directly at a tile edge.
Post by: Grif on December 01, 2009, 08:12:03 pm
And compared to the male dwarves I think they look much better, perhaps a bit more work on the male dwarves to make them as good looking as the females.
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 08:13:08 pm
I liked Deon's female dwarfs though they could probably be better off with a slightly smaller boobage... ;)
And compared to the male dwarves I think they look much better, perhaps a bit more work on the male dwarves to make them as good looking as the females.
With huge rotund guts?
I don't know if I want all the Dwarves to be Obese
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on December 01, 2009, 08:43:33 pm
I liked Deon's female dwarfs though they could probably be better off with a slightly smaller boobage... ;)
And compared to the male dwarves I think they look much better, perhaps a bit more work on the male dwarves to make them as good looking as the females.
With huge rotund guts?
I don't know if I want all the Dwarves to be Obese
And here is where I think my opinion differs in that those buxom, heavyset Dwarf lasses positively exude Dwarf Fortress in my mind.
Lusty, full figured lasses, lend themselves to the gritty, bloody, and oftentimes utterly insane world which my Dwarves tend to find themselves. The fact they are very rotund makes them even more appealing to me because it rejoices in that which is not necessarily the accepted norm.
When my ever drunk Dwarves are driven to the point of berserker rage or insanity, ripping their clothes off and jumping on tables, while sneaky Kobolds snatch babies and emo Dwarves drown themselves in Lava Falls, I am in some twisted form of bliss.
That is Dwarf Fortress to me, with all the amazingly insane things that tend to happen, and make me sit back and really think about how deep this game is to have such craziness.
I guess that is why having very lusty, plump imaginative 'characters' tend to be important for me and why Deon's Dwarf set makes me happy to see the potential for variety that this group of creative individuals is capable of.
variety is the spice of life after all! ;)
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 08:49:45 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on December 01, 2009, 08:51:42 pm
Post by: Nadaka on December 01, 2009, 08:52:17 pm
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on December 01, 2009, 08:55:15 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 01, 2009, 09:06:06 pm
Post by: RantingRodent on December 01, 2009, 09:12:18 pm
Post by: Winterbrass on December 01, 2009, 10:18:01 pm
I far prefer the dwarves to the humans in the trade depot screenshot - the humans are far too detailed, to the point where you can't see any detail from a normal level because it all just blurs together, much like Deon's female dwarves. (And that's completely neverminding the aforementioned fact that they're very hooker-esque. I didn't want to say it first out of respect, but now that it's out there...)
Keep them simple, keep them stylish. If you attempt to add too much detail, you're just going to end up fucking it up. Personal taste? The 3D-rendered sprites are superior to both the humans and the female dwarves, and I don't like them.
As far as I'm concerned, so long as we have actual sprites for civ members, that's good enough until important shit is done - like actually differentiating between building materials.
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 11:36:41 pm
As far as I'm concerned, this thread is for contribution and suggestions. People telling Deon he is wasting his time are wasting their time, and the time of other people in the thread. Keep your negativity to yourself, there is a line between 'helpful' and 'hurtful'.
If you want something done the way you want it, do it yourself. If you lack the ability to do so, then ask nicely.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 01, 2009, 11:37:00 pm
Now, can we stop arguing?
LN
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 11:39:24 pm
Ok, ok. so Deon will have the first optional add-on pack for stonesense, the busty dwarf pack.
Now, can we stop arguing?
LN
Exactly, it's pathetic to see some of these members bickering back and forth as if stone sense can and WILL only have one graphics pack... ffs, look at how many packs have been made for standard DF. If you don't like the nipples, take his sprites and remove them in your own version.
Actually, I think it's getting to a point where we need to make a contributions only thread. This thread has become overrun with members whining about how they feel the "style" of DF isn't being matched by the talented spriters who have contributed so far, they don't need this negativity.
Post by: Zaratustra on December 01, 2009, 11:39:56 pm
but I made a little php app
it picks a texture like this
(http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/shalewall.png)
and makes it into this
(http://zara.verge-rpg.com/dorf/blockifier.php)
you can try it at http://zara.verge-rpg.com/dorf/blockifier.php?filename=http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/shalewall.png and replace the latter url with whatever you want see if it works
Post by: soup on December 01, 2009, 11:56:34 pm
Post by: Solifuge on December 02, 2009, 12:56:59 am
Wierd.
Post by: Deon on December 02, 2009, 12:57:32 am
Sorry for female audience, I supposed I could recieve a reply like this. It's in no way meant to harm the female part of the planet or make them "whores".
I just followed the advice of a few previous posters before I've made first one where they told that in ISO there should be small faces, big heads and accent on important parts. Well, I think that the head is not the ONLY important part thus you get this set, and I followed YOUR advice :).
Quote
The only issue I see with his female dwarves is that some of them have visible nipples, and that might not be acceptable to the parents of some of the younger players.1) No nipples, it's jewelry. Come one, zoom. It even has different color. Also my personal matter is that DF is 10+ because of all the gore, and in 11 you usually are watching pr0n magazines and try to pick up girls :D.
Quote
If a "funny" set is made...dwarfs must lack one sock each.Great idea! I tried to find out a funny way to make male dwarves, and it's a cool option between others.
P.S. Take it easy. Relax :>.
Zaratustra, I am going to test it, thank you for your effort.
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2009, 07:45:57 am
Quote
I am in no way pretending to make these sprites for a "default" version
1) fix the mantle of your Dwarven Queen for one.
2) Quite a few people actually wanted to make it the default version
Post by: Deon on December 02, 2009, 08:05:53 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 02, 2009, 08:06:53 am
What do you mean by "fix"? Any specific recomendations? :)
Specifically fix the left side of the upper mantle. It loses its color for no reason.
Maybe I should Highlight it.
Post by: Deon on December 02, 2009, 08:47:06 am
Post by: Bricks on December 02, 2009, 10:27:41 am
Disregarding the nipple highlights, of course. That's undeniably kinky.
Post by: Voligne on December 02, 2009, 11:44:45 am
Post by: Zaratustra on December 02, 2009, 11:48:40 am
Zaratustra, so far I can get nothing from the site other than the original image, though it even renames the resultant image after the new file. Yes the file is PNG, and the proper size.
Wierd.
Sorry, should work now.
Post by: dyze on December 02, 2009, 11:52:37 am
Zaratustra, so far I can get nothing from the site other than the original image, though it even renames the resultant image after the new file. Yes the file is PNG, and the proper size.
Wierd.
Sorry, should work now.
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 02, 2009, 12:07:47 pm
hate to interrupt all the discussion about boobs
but I made a little php app
it picks a texture like this
(http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/shalewall.png)
and makes it into this
(http://zara.verge-rpg.com/dorf/blockifier.php)
you can try it at http://zara.verge-rpg.com/dorf/blockifier.php?filename=http://zarawesome.googlepages.com/shalewall.png and replace the latter url with whatever you want see if it works
Awesome dude!
Post by: MMad on December 02, 2009, 12:25:03 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 02, 2009, 01:02:52 pm
Looking at the result, I can't help but think the texture needs a fourth (maybe even a fifth) shade, for different ramp directions. The "inward corner" ramp looks too solid right now, not sure if you'd distinguish it in a multi-level shot.
Post by: Roxorius on December 02, 2009, 01:07:27 pm
Sorry for female audience, I supposed I could recieve a reply like this.
Pretty sure the complaints all came from guys. Guys who are deeply suspect... if you know what I mean.
Post by: Deon on December 02, 2009, 01:22:33 pm
Post by: MatrexsVigil on December 02, 2009, 02:13:07 pm
Anyway, whatever happened to Suess and his awesome plants/trees? Is he gonna make any more or did he make one for everything in vanilla already?
Post by: 7Ē Nickel on December 02, 2009, 02:14:54 pm
Pretty sure the complaints all came from guys. Guys who are deeply suspect... if you know what I mean.
Heh heh... I know what you mean buddy. Guys who object to depicting all women in fetish gear with breasts bigger than their torsos are all GIANT FAGGOTS. Am I right guys? Woooo!
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on December 02, 2009, 02:48:13 pm
Also, Puzzlemaker, nice app!
Post by: Zaratustra on December 02, 2009, 03:29:04 pm
Post by: Aavak on December 02, 2009, 03:47:54 pm
I've been lurking in this thread for quite a while now. I've not contributed much (read-also: anything), though I checked out the source of the last version and fiddled with a few ideas and I've even been getting itchy to try my hand at some sprites though the last time I did anything similar was over a decade ago on the C64!
But very recently all this arguing has really sapped my motivation and even the enjoyment I got out of just following the thread as a whole. First with the heated discussion over the artistic style and now Deon's dwarven sprites. The annoying thing is that they're both worthwhile subjects to discuss, but there's so much heat and barely veiled anger mixed in with it all that it just becomes draining to read any of it.
I imagine that it's almost inevitable that when putting forward these sorts of critical opinions regarding someone's creative efforts that people's reactions will be -- at least in part -- hostile, especially when both sides of the argument sincerely believe their argument or that it's of significant importance. (I think some people have mentioned that they fear Deon's sprites would cause some people to be turned away from Stonesense, for example.)
Initially people generally seemed careful about how they put their thoughts into words, attempting to avoid causing any more disruption than their opinion would cause in and of itself. But as the thread rolls forward and the general dissatisfaction grows people seem more willing to throw caution to the wind, perhaps because they feel the thread has already decayed into an argument so there's no point in pulling the punches any more and I just find myself yearning for the time when every third or fourth post was someone posting their sprites and the posts in between were constructive pointers on how they could be improved or praise, instead of calling someone out for a perceived insult or clearing up who you were aiming some part of your post at, or any number of other comments which seem less and less aimed at stonesense but at the personalities involved with its creation and evolution. That's sad for two reasons, for one I get the impression that more and more energy is being diverted from contributing to the development in favour of contributing to the discussion (which at least half the time seems less about contributing to the discussion itself and more championing or defending someone's opinion or even their right to have one at all) and the second reason is, as I've said, the topics are worth discussion but now seem to be generating so much animosity that the worth of the discussions is costing more to the project in lost time and or interest than it could hope of returning by way of useful progress.
Several people have already tried to calm things and suggest we move forward (not necessarily away from these topics) but still things seem to be boiling over, I'm not sure that people have really calmed down from the first topic and perhaps some of the energy in the discussion regarding Deon's sprites is spill-over.
This is all my opinion of course and can be accepted or discarded as you see fit, for it is ultimately tied to my ability to perceive what's happening and understand it, and it goes without saying that I'm not omniscient. But if nothing else I would urge people to at least step back a little and return to the way these discussions began. That is to say that your points, even if I or anyone else were to disagree with them, are likely worth making and you certainly have the right to make them and contribute your opinions to the discussions taking place, but if we could try to be mindful of how we present those opinions, to return to being careful about how we word our thoughts to avoid creating any (more) disruption by how we say something rather than what we say, then I feel it would go a long way to bracing the thread (and perhaps even the project) from getting derailed and generally be much more constructive.
For the record I agree with the majority of the points raised in regards to Iconic vs Isometric art style, though I personally prefer the Isometric style and would use any rendered Isometric sprite set over alternatives where possible. This is a personal aesthetic choice born of the luxury that my choice doesn't impact the overall project; if there are rendered sprites available, I'll use them, if not I might create them myself! ;)
With the same reasoning, I have little problem with Deon's sprites. I don't really feel the female elements need to be emphasised as much as they are, but as things stand they don't offend me, if they did then I'd simply alter the sprites to remove the offensive elements and keep the rest. Much in the same way that if Stonesense implemented a feature I didn't like or felt could be done better in another way, I'd simply change it on my local copy -- though in regards to changing the code I acknowledge not everyone has the knowledge or confidence (which is often more the problem, in my opinion) to make those changes, I certainly think the majority of people have the ability to change a sprite set. But I also acknowledge that there are some concerns that people will be turned off Stonesense all together if they are not given the option to use a different set to begin with, and if someone who feels this way would like to make a set of female sprites for inclusion to offer future users the option then it would seem to be the best solution to the issue.
Post by: LegoLord on December 02, 2009, 05:49:03 pm
Post by: strich on December 02, 2009, 06:20:15 pm
Post by: Seuss on December 02, 2009, 06:36:54 pm
I'd like to not be referred as 'that girl'. And yes, there are women on this forum board.
Anyway, whatever happened to Suess and his awesome plants/trees? Is he gonna make any more or did he make one for everything in vanilla already?
I'm still around. All the trees are done and have only just been coded properly however Stonesence doesn't detect seasons yet so I'm holding of doing those. I have done something special for the project that's not shown here, however it is only small. The main reason for not doing much is that there are a new things planned for Alpha5 that will help artists and it'd be handy to know what powers and limitations those will have. I like to think I work closely with the dev team, even if I just hang around and you can see the project has a ways to go yet and art isn't a huge concern atm.
As far as the argument on style goes please stop using 'iconic' and 'isometric' as styles, they aren't. In the art sense, isometric is the angle that something is drawn and iconic, as it should be used here is something that stands out and is rememberable. You can have iconic sprites drawn at an isometric angle that follow a style similar to Pokemon for instance.
But this is just me being anal about art.
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 02, 2009, 06:37:54 pm
In the meantime:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall4WALK.gif)
Post by: jarathor on December 02, 2009, 07:00:11 pm
Jonask is working on a system to make the thread more orderly, so no sweat.
In the meantime:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall4WALK.gif)
That is so many kinds of awesome - I can't wait to see what else comes out of that.
Post by: jryan on December 02, 2009, 07:46:29 pm
Post by: Firnagzen on December 02, 2009, 08:47:01 pm
Post by: HideousBeing on December 02, 2009, 10:54:19 pm
Ok, so now who is working on the Stonesense2: Audio!? ;D
I'll apply for the job of voice actor. :D
Post by: soup on December 02, 2009, 11:27:07 pm
Post by: Jadael on December 03, 2009, 12:33:52 am
Post by: Aavak on December 03, 2009, 12:43:10 am
As far as the argument on style goes please stop using 'iconic' and 'isometric' as styles, they aren't. In the art sense, isometric is the angle that something is drawn and iconic, as it should be used here is something that stands out and is rememberable. You can have iconic sprites drawn at an isometric angle that follow a style similar to Pokemon for instance.
But this is just me being anal about art.
Sorry Seuss. I know the literal definitions of the words but because the terms have already been used to label the talk about the two styles it seemed the easiest way to continue to reference that discussion in particular, but I guess that's not reason enough to propagate the misconception.
But at any rate it's a fair comment and far from anal :)
Post by: Zaratustra on December 03, 2009, 12:47:14 am
Zaratustra, do you think you could make an app that accepts this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/sheet2.png) as input and makes ramps for each one? I was going to just render the ramps but your way might be a lot faster and have better results.
I could try. Give me a couple of days.
Post by: Deon on December 03, 2009, 01:06:27 am
Mike, hehe, this guy is kinda funny. Maybe it's his face, but I really like him :). I feel sad for the butchered one though.
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 02:06:54 am
Post by: Retro on December 03, 2009, 02:13:10 am
In the meantime:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall4WALK.gif)
It looks like the animation leaves him a few pixels short of standing exactly where he was in the arrival square compared with the departure square - both toes are below the horizontal line before he begins walking, but when he stops in the second square both toes are above it.
Quality animation, though. Looking forwards to seeing that finished.
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 05:57:22 am
Jonask is working on a system to make the thread more orderly, so no sweat.
In the meantime:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall4WALK.gif)
Mike I am amazed, that is a professional quality walking animation. ;D Makes me want to make it fit the 34x33 set...
Post by: Haspen on December 03, 2009, 06:24:24 am
And now, back to drooling on the sprites, animations and other graphic...
*drools*
Post by: kaypy on December 03, 2009, 06:55:26 am
Ok, so now who is working on the Stonesense2: Audio!? ;DThat was my previous project 8-)
It vanished without trace into the depths of the forum, I'm afraid...
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 03, 2009, 07:45:18 am
Mike I am amazed, that is a professional quality walking animation. ;D Makes me want to make it fit the 34x33 set...It's mah furst! :V
Feel free to mess around with iiiiit.
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 07:48:33 am
Mike I am amazed, that is a professional quality walking animation. ;D Makes me want to make it fit the 34x33 set...It's mah furst! :V
Feel free to mess around with iiiiit.
seriously? awesome, I'll use it as a reference for the walking 2x1 isometric dwarf, thanks :D
Post by: kaypy on December 03, 2009, 08:26:26 am
I really need to fix the wiki for a4 sometime before a5 comes out... Your best bet might be either poking around the other xml files for info or, if you can understand the code to any degree, looking at the BlockCondition classesOK, I have updated the buildings config information (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingBuildings) on the wiki.
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 08:52:37 am
animation: (http://i49.tinypic.com/zvya6v.gif)
grid alignment: (http://i46.tinypic.com/2hp0kzq.gif)
loop walk: (http://i46.tinypic.com/213ixdh.gif)
loop walk w/ beard: (http://i45.tinypic.com/288dav.gif)
Post by: gilrad on December 03, 2009, 09:00:17 am
What are you looking for in particular?
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 09:08:16 am
If you guys want some music, I could put some stuff together (been looking for an excuse to start composing again, and I have a one-month long break anyway).
What are you looking for in particular?
I couldn't really say, I think stuff like this would be fitting. http://www.youtube.com/v/_YNRYEOD_KQ
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 03, 2009, 11:01:36 am
I'd like to not be referred as 'that girl'. And yes, there are women on this forum board.Indeed.
Jonask is working on a system to make the thread more orderly, so no sweat.NOW I see why the dwarf looks wrong- it's got a "realistic"-feeling style and the legs are nowhere near long enough(-like there are no knees, but there's room for them)
In the meantime:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall4WALK.gif)
Probably would be easier to go from whate'er Jadael's texture-source is, I'd imagine, than your rendered set.Zaratustra, do you think you could make an app that accepts this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/sheet2.png) as input and makes ramps for each one? I was going to just render the ramps but your way might be a lot faster and have better results.
I could try. Give me a couple of days.
Alright, here is my concept for a dwarf walking in the 32x32 isometric dimensions.Paging Master Higgins?
animation: (http://i49.tinypic.com/zvya6v.gif)
grid alignment: (http://i46.tinypic.com/2hp0kzq.gif)
loop walk: (http://i46.tinypic.com/213ixdh.gif)
loop walk w/ beard: (http://i45.tinypic.com/288dav.gif)
Post by: fintilgin on December 03, 2009, 11:45:14 am
Post by: FlexibleDogma on December 03, 2009, 11:58:19 am
Probably would be easier to go from whate'er Jadael's texture-source is, I'd imagine, than your rendered set.Zaratustra, do you think you could make an app that accepts this (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/sheet2.png) as input and makes ramps for each one? I was going to just render the ramps but your way might be a lot faster and have better results.
I could try. Give me a couple of days.
I was thinking about how to do this real quick, something like making an intermediate PHP script that you give an X/Y of the cube you want to turn into the 32px Ũ 40px texture since Zaratustra's script already works. I don't do a lot of image manipulation in PHP, but it looks like would be a real pain and probably not look as good as the original texture. :P
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on December 03, 2009, 12:02:12 pm
How has this thread gotten to over 120 pages and no one has bothered to draw a barrel the number one object in almost every fortress. :D
stonesense can't read items, the drawing of a barrel would be of little use
Post by: fintilgin on December 03, 2009, 12:14:38 pm
stonesense can't read items, the drawing of a barrel would be of little use
Ah! That makes sense. I was wondering why no one had done art for so many of the 'dull' but numerous and important objects.
Post by: Jiri Petru on December 03, 2009, 02:45:40 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 03, 2009, 02:52:46 pm
Post by: Fist_Of_Armok on December 03, 2009, 03:27:21 pm
I couldn't really say, I think stuff like this would be fitting. http://www.youtube.com/v/_YNRYEOD_KQ
My god, that is PERFECT for DF.
I actually prefer it to the slightly depressing guitar-jazzy music we've got now.
It's got more of a "looking toward the future, building ever higher, STRIKE THE EARTH!" feeling than the basic music.
Pity FF already has it.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 03, 2009, 03:45:26 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 03, 2009, 03:47:25 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 03, 2009, 04:42:49 pm
How has this thread gotten to over 120 pages and no one has bothered to draw a barrel the number one object in almost every fortress. :DThere have actually been a few barrels drawn, but only as parts of various workshops- most notably the still, of course.
Post by: Anti-Paragon on December 03, 2009, 05:20:22 pm
Anyway, everyone making the sprites here completely rocks. If they were all compiled into different sets I'd use them all at one point or another. Keep going!
Post by: kaypy on December 03, 2009, 06:00:52 pm
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingCreatures (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingCreatures)
Edit: Oops. Got a bit ahead of myself and wound up documenting how the *next* version will work. Sorry. Still useful to have though.
More Edit: Reinstated the previous text as well, since thats... not much more accurate for A4, but better
Post by: The Doctor on December 03, 2009, 06:57:32 pm
The first one is less system intensive. >.>
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 09:47:25 pm
In the meantime:
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall4WALK.gif)
NOW I see why the dwarf looks wrong- it's got a "realistic"-feeling style and the legs are nowhere near long enough(-like there are no knees, but there's room for them)
I think the walking animation is fine, what I did notice though is that the torso is too long for a dwarf, I fixed it real quick to show the difference.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/vd036s.gif)(http://i49.tinypic.com/351er93.gif)
Post by: gilrad on December 03, 2009, 09:50:47 pm
What do you guys think of this (unfinished) piece?
I have a pretty powerful bass system so it sounds okay to me, but if your system is a little weak it might sound a little nonexistant, and I might need to add another instrument. I was sorta going for an industrial vibe here; perhaps this would be the default music if your fortress has a heavy metal industry?
Post by: Reasonableman on December 03, 2009, 09:58:34 pm
http://sites.google.com/site/kerjigger/CBrun.mp3
What do you guys think of this (unfinished) piece?
I have a pretty powerful bass system so it sounds okay to me, but if your system is a little weak it might sound a little nonexistant, and I might need to add another instrument. I was sorta going for an industrial vibe here; perhaps this would be the default music if your fortress has a heavy metal industry?
Something about the minimalism just grabs me outright; I think if you could find the right instrument to go along with it, though, it could really shine. And if you're thinking about doing more like this (I hope you do) I recommend you make your own thread for it; I'd like to keep track of your work, myself.
Post by: Velrio on December 03, 2009, 10:32:37 pm
Is there any way to run DF and SS side by side without having 2 monitors? I know about the mini version you can use for DF, but I wanted larger. Next I'm running stone sense, but it isn't keeping up with DF. Like every time I unpause DF - SS doesn't pick up and go with it and update live. I've seen the video on youtube with both running live next to each other so what gives?
Thanks.
Post by: soup on December 03, 2009, 10:37:40 pm
Post by: BatCountry on December 03, 2009, 10:46:18 pm
Wow. I'll just ask this since I don't want to search the whole thread and there's no mention of it in the readme file.
Is there any way to run DF and SS side by side without having 2 monitors? I know about the mini version you can use for DF, but I wanted larger. Next I'm running stone sense, but it isn't keeping up with DF. Like every time I unpause DF - SS doesn't pick up and go with it and update live. I've seen the video on youtube with both running live next to each other so what gives?
Thanks.
Quote from: Readme
Numpad + and -: Increase/Decrease AutoReload Rate
F will toggle following of the DF window. Ctrl+arrow keys adjusts the offset so you can put the center view where you think it ought to be relative to your dwarf fortress window.
+ and - on the numpad adjust the refresh rate. If you hit + once then it will start updating every 0.1 sec.
As far as running them side-by-side, you can just set DF to run in a window and tweak DF's config to give you the window size you want... Or use 40d16 and resize the window, although that's a bit fiddly. Editing Stonesense's init.txt will let you change the window size of Stonesense.
Post by: Velrio on December 03, 2009, 10:58:03 pm
Post by: MatrexsVigil on December 03, 2009, 11:14:27 pm
http://sites.google.com/site/kerjigger/CBrun.mp3
What do you guys think of this (unfinished) piece?
I have a pretty powerful bass system so it sounds okay to me, but if your system is a little weak it might sound a little nonexistant, and I might need to add another instrument. I was sorta going for an industrial vibe here; perhaps this would be the default music if your fortress has a heavy metal industry?
I really love it! It's missing something, however. It needs another instrument, maybe violin? Or is that too elfy? Hmm...
Post by: Xandrin on December 03, 2009, 11:17:43 pm
Nice cellos you have there Gilrad. Have you heard of Apocalyptica? your ditty reminded me of their music. Could use some cymbals and percussion to be truly awesome. Some big timpani drums to give it some more oomf. I was watching the "Making of" movies for Warhammer Online...and the "Making of Music" one is pretty interesting. An inspirational quote: "Today we will be examining how to scare the bloody bejeesus out of Warhammer players". I think it applies :D.
While we're on the topic of DF music, UO's title theme "Stones" is pretty good: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq0rmlmY8bw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq0rmlmY8bw). It has a lighter tone than your music but again, is limited to a single instrument. Seems more "ye olden dayes" than a full orchestra.
What's with these animooted dwarf sprites? Are we moving away from static sprites or are these side projects? The animated creatures I can see...but are we really going to have dwarves physically walking everywhere? It seems to me they move a bit too fast on screen (not in your .gifs below, but in-game)...might get horribly distracting.
Back to work.
Post by: BatCountry on December 03, 2009, 11:43:48 pm
For Ultima music, I like "Forest" from Ultima 6. Adequately dwarfy for when nothing in particular is going on, plus it's the one piece of video game music other than the Final Fantasy crystal theme that I can't get sick of.
http://www.surfing.net/ultima/bard/ultima6.html
Post by: kaypy on December 04, 2009, 12:08:11 am
What's with these animooted dwarf sprites? Are we moving away from static sprites or are these side projects?Side projects- note they are based on Mayday's cavalier spriteset and hence wouldnt fit into the main stonesense even if the main stonesense had any support for that kind of animation.
And I have no idea why people are discussing music here- Stonesense dev is backlogged enough without any plans for sound.
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 12:18:55 am
animation: (http://i49.tinypic.com/zvya6v.gif)
grid alignment: (http://i46.tinypic.com/2hp0kzq.gif)
loop walk: (http://i46.tinypic.com/213ixdh.gif)
loop walk w/ beard: (http://i45.tinypic.com/288dav.gif)
I did an animated dwarf that would fit in the current stone sense...
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on December 04, 2009, 12:28:47 am
Will Stonesense have a way to separate the sprites into moving and stationary 'motions' for when the dwarves are static vs. moving?
Post by: Flying Carcass on December 04, 2009, 12:41:20 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And all hail Stonesense; such a great visualizer! But ya'll already knew that. ;)
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 12:44:14 am
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 12:47:03 am
One thing that worries me about moving dwarf sprites is that the dwarves themselves are not moving quite often, say for instance when they are crafting or eating or sleeping. May also be a bit much to have 150 dwaves all walking around in place (some may actually be moving
Will Stonesense have a way to separate the sprites into moving and stationary 'motions' for when the dwarves are static vs. moving?
I did the concept just for fun, I don't expect it to be implemented any time soon... but if it did, it would be awesome.
Actually... are animations even currently supported (or plan to be) in stone sense?
and as far as the "endless walking in one position" animation, you could easily enable the animations to not be looped, so it would only do one walk "cycle".
Post by: Seuss on December 04, 2009, 12:58:31 am
Actually... are animations even currently supported (or plan to be) in stone sense?Animations are being supported however at the moment it's not on a per action basis and just all the time.
and as far as the "endless walking in one position" animation, you could easily enable the animations to not be looped, so it would only do one walk "cycle".
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 01:05:36 am
like for example, does the animation start over when it moves to a new tile or is it the same cycle of frames?
I could imagine it being either:
1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2(moves to a new tile),1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4, etc... or
1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2(moves to a new tile),3,4,1,2,3,4,1,2, etc...
Post by: gilrad on December 04, 2009, 01:19:16 am
What's with these animooted dwarf sprites? Are we moving away from static sprites or are these side projects?And I have no idea why people are discussing music here- Stonesense dev is backlogged enough without any plans for sound.
If that's the case then I'll just put my music on the backburner then.
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 01:23:09 am
What's with these animooted dwarf sprites? Are we moving away from static sprites or are these side projects?And I have no idea why people are discussing music here- Stonesense dev is backlogged enough without any plans for sound.
If that's the case then I'll just put my music on the backburner then.
they really are a completely separate project, but I do think you should make a new thread so we can discuss all of the music for DF in a topic it is meant for.
Post by: Fist_Of_Armok on December 04, 2009, 01:30:27 am
http://sites.google.com/site/kerjigger/CBrun.mp3
What do you guys think of this (unfinished) piece?
I have a pretty powerful bass system so it sounds okay to me, but if your system is a little weak it might sound a little nonexistant, and I might need to add another instrument. I was sorta going for an industrial vibe here; perhaps this would be the default music if your fortress has a heavy metal industry?
Sounds a tad too...threatening, to me; I'd associate it more with orcs than with dorfs. Good song, though.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 04, 2009, 01:34:58 am
they really are a completely separate project, but I do think you should make a new thread so we can discuss all of the music for DF in a topic it is meant for.
If anyone's thinking about starting a thread, they should be aware that there have been several such threads already:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=32164.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=18809.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=30132.0
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=1869.0
kaypy is right, though, this thread and music discussion are not really a good fit for each other.
Post by: kaypy on December 04, 2009, 01:49:53 am
well, in the current implementation now... does it reload the sprite resource when it moves to a new tile?Currently, its a 6 frame cycle, and mostly independent of the map reload loop. So critters will keep their place in the loop while moving. The animation frame is global, updating at a configurable rate. Sprites are redrawn when either the frame changes or the map is reloaded. Each critter has a fixed offset from the global frame to keep things from being to much in lockstep (so 1 in 6 critters will be in any given animation state).
like for example, does the animation start over when it moves to a new tile or is it the same cycle of frames?
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 08:35:55 am
well, in the current implementation now... does it reload the sprite resource when it moves to a new tile?Currently, its a 6 frame cycle, and mostly independent of the map reload loop. So critters will keep their place in the loop while moving. The animation frame is global, updating at a configurable rate. Sprites are redrawn when either the frame changes or the map is reloaded. Each critter has a fixed offset from the global frame to keep things from being to much in lockstep (so 1 in 6 critters will be in any given animation state).
like for example, does the animation start over when it moves to a new tile or is it the same cycle of frames?
ah I see... any plans to implement an action-based or one-shot based animation system?
Post by: Neonivek on December 04, 2009, 08:43:04 am
Heck I am sure they would allow you to play the game from stonesense if they could.
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 08:52:30 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 04, 2009, 09:07:20 am
It to my knowledge it just scans the map constantly. So I guess if Cow 7 was in one location in one scan and then was in another location in another scan... It could maybe extrapolate movement... but it cannot tell if something moves as far as I am aware.
Post by: Keita on December 04, 2009, 09:39:38 am
Post by: Neonivek on December 04, 2009, 09:46:23 am
That would make sense if it says 'scanning every 2ms'
It would only need to scan everytime there is a change.
Post by: Winterbrass on December 04, 2009, 10:53:57 am
:-[Another bit of a peeve is that glass windows are so thin and are without corners, and glass blocks, like all other masonry-based walls, appear exactly identical. Either I have an opaque dome, or I attempt to fake it with windows and have to deal with overhanging floor tiles.I need to have another look at options for reading in wall tiles, but it currently isnt looking hopeful for being able to detect glass walls.
QuoteI'd help out instead of 'complaining', but I lack in the graphics-fu.Some things are just plain oversights, so complaining can be helpful, too.
edit: Do your floodgates work better if you grab the latest floodgate config from
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/buildings/Floodgate.xml (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/buildings/Floodgate.xml)
My floodgates work perfectly now, yes, thank you. I actually did a little bit of testing, too, and a north-south path will dominate an east-west path in a cross formation. Not a complaint, just an observation.
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 12:37:07 pm
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 04, 2009, 12:49:47 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on December 04, 2009, 12:55:59 pm
So why can't stonesense detect items? Is it just impossible to do with the way DF is set up to memhack it?
We were discussing item detection a few pages back:
As for items themselves, this was another feature that Lifevis (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/) had. Presumably he'd found a reasonably efficient way of handling it. You can see items (blue blobs) lying on the ground in that demonstration video.
"Is there an object here" is relatively easy- theres an occ flag for that, so I had it on a branch a few weeks back. Anything beyond "an object" eg "what kind of object" suddenly becomes much harder.
Ah, gotcha. What makes identifying them so difficult? Is it just expensive to iterate over the item vector, (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Memory_hacking/v0.28.181.40d16) or is the item format not understood?
I think DFHack is getting item support, but the expense is the big factor. If we can get items at a specific location it would be much easier, but I dont think we have that info yet.
Otherwise we may have to resort to only reloading the object info when we really *really* need to, because it will be worse than when you hit 'stones' in your stockpile screen.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 03:59:45 pm
well, I was thinking about it- there's another thread that I keep losing track of in which Mayday proposes a simple manner of animating things.well, in the current implementation now... does it reload the sprite resource when it moves to a new tile?Currently, its a 6 frame cycle, and mostly independent of the map reload loop. So critters will keep their place in the loop while moving. The animation frame is global, updating at a configurable rate. Sprites are redrawn when either the frame changes or the map is reloaded. Each critter has a fixed offset from the global frame to keep things from being to much in lockstep (so 1 in 6 critters will be in any given animation state).
like for example, does the animation start over when it moves to a new tile or is it the same cycle of frames?
ah I see... any plans to implement an action-based or one-shot based animation system?
Ah, that's too bad... I assume the program detects movement though, are there any plans to make the animation one-shot and then restart once when something moves?Problem: Fliers would stop flapping.
Post by: soup on December 04, 2009, 04:58:01 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 05:01:01 pm
Should probably fork animation discussion off, but...I'm unsure whether suggestions or modding is better for that.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 04, 2009, 06:18:11 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 04, 2009, 06:24:08 pm
If someone wanted to work nearly FOREVER on a future visualiser they could make each bodypart of each creature individually (with visual injuries) so you can see how injured someone is by looking at them. That would be awsome [but it won't happen :"( ]. Heck even equipment could be visualised using that method.Well, the reason to do it is that making each part and piece individually means you only need to multiply items by poses (with some clever tricks you may e'en get away without this), directions, and creatures, rather than the factorial combinatoric explosion of equipment.
Of course it would take forever, and is currently impossible, and would only be worth doing when DF nears completion
Kobold:Okay, going from this...a demonstration of how you can do individual equipment pieces. (Forgive my horrible koboldhelm.)
(http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s102/tehmarken/stonesense/kobold.png)
Spoiler: master draw order-bold is in this animation (click to show/hide)
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3728/draworder.gif)
You could either bumpmap or repalettize (depending on artistic style/taste) to get different materials/dyes. (Here, I'm using default colors: bright gray for steel, dark gray for iron, bright cyan for adamantine).
This also allows for severs, at least primitively- though that would entail expanding to the proper BPs (upper arm, lower arm, etc)
Post by: Footkerchief on December 04, 2009, 10:34:20 pm
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on December 04, 2009, 10:59:14 pm
Would be easier, instead of trying to "create" or "Draw" items, to simply have small packets of information onbored every unit that says "UNIT-X Posses the following items!" And if it dies, the items materialize and appear?
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 05, 2009, 06:41:26 am
a little insomnia and the magic of layers yield a kobold diplomat (with or without alpha shadow)
(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/4121/koboldomat.png)(http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/5838/koboldomatns.png)
...is the toga obvtoga enough? Scepter feels good, as does scroll he's presenting. Tempted to go fullcaesar and ditch the scepter for a laurel crown, but that'd be a bit harder to draw.
@Crossroads: Point was to lay the groundwork for an equipment-drawing mode rather than a draw-by-profession mode.
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 05, 2009, 09:33:21 am
I think the walking animation is fine, what I did notice though is that the torso is too long for a dwarf, I fixed it real quick to show the difference.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/vd036s.gif)(http://i49.tinypic.com/351er93.gif)
Ah yeah, I wanted to keep the head big enough to have distinguishable features, then the torso a bit smaller to fit the details for identification and the legs even smaller since they usually have no identifying features. I'll mess with the proportions a bit but I'm actually happy with how it looks now.
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall14WALK.gif)
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 06, 2009, 12:18:33 am
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on December 06, 2009, 12:42:11 am
I don't know exactly how hacking works, but wouldn't it be easier to update the changes instead of scanning everything every single time?I'm not a memory hacker by any stretch of the imagination, but that's not how it works bro.
Ugh, I tried my hand at ballistae and catapults but, I'm such a crappy pixel artist.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 06, 2009, 12:52:25 am
I don't know exactly how hacking works, but wouldn't it be easier to update the changes instead of scanning everything every single time? That way item updating could be done a little reasonably, at least.
In an ideal world, yes, but it would involve either sending information to Stonesense every time something changed, or having a convenient list of changes sitting in memory. The first is impossible here since Dwarf Fortress isn't sending anything to Stonesense, and the second is very unlikely, handy though it would be.
Generally speaking, if you're only getting information on the game state by looking up the game state in memory, then the only way to find out what the changes are from last time you looked is to manually compare everything in the current game state to the previous game state to see what's different. At that point, it's easier to just entirely replace the old data with the new.
Put simply, you can't only update what changed because you don't know what changed until after you scan everything.
Post by: soup on December 06, 2009, 03:22:34 am
I think the walking animation is fine, what I did notice though is that the torso is too long for a dwarf, I fixed it real quick to show the difference.
(http://i46.tinypic.com/vd036s.gif)(http://i49.tinypic.com/351er93.gif)
Ah yeah, I wanted to keep the head big enough to have distinguishable features, then the torso a bit smaller to fit the details for identification and the legs even smaller since they usually have no identifying features. I'll mess with the proportions a bit but I'm actually happy with how it looks now.
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/ISODORFsmall14WALK.gif)
yeah you're right, yours definitely looks better... I suppose it looked awkward because it was missing arms, but then again anything looks awkward without arms lol.
also I was wondering, what editing programs do you use for your sprites?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 06, 2009, 05:16:49 am
This is something that's been bugging me in real life as well. Real life isn't a perfect system, but this process should be relatively fail-safe (I'm speaking of the real-life situation)
1. Count everything you have in stock.
2. Monitor for when someone takes or puts something in the stock.
3. If someone does put or take something, update your record.
4. Goto 2 unless X time has passed since 1.
5. Goto 1.
Basically, don't scan the horrendous item list except very rarely to make sure the items are still where you think they are. Instead, look for dwarves changing inventory, digging events, dwarves eating and other things - in other words, all events likely to generate or remove items. But I don't know whether it's possible currently or not...
Post by: Footkerchief on December 06, 2009, 05:22:29 am
2. Monitor for when someone takes or puts something in the stock.
This is the hard part, of course, for reasons John S. Fox just explained. It would be possible to make guesses about when items should appear and disappear, but it would be utterly insane to implement -- you'd end up duplicating a good deal of the game logic.
Post by: kaypy on December 06, 2009, 06:42:59 am
Its the hard part in real life, too 8-)2. Monitor for when someone takes or puts something in the stock.This is the hard part, of course, for reasons John S. Fox just explained.
And to fill up my screencap quota for a bit longer:
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/th_greenstatue.png) (http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/greenstatue.png)
I'm working on making the various terrains more configurable. Its still kinda broken in many places, but it worked enough for my glass statue to show up as actual glass for once.
Hmm. We need borders on the edges of walls as well as the tops...
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 06, 2009, 06:46:39 am
Because if it isn't, you can only keep scanning the end of the list, seeing if any more items appeared since you last looked. Item movement can usually be replicated using game logic. Monitoring creature inventories doesn't seem like that hard of a task, comparatively. Other cases of items being moved include collapses, flow pushes, ranged weapons firing. These are harder, of course.
Even if we'll be going the simple'n'hard way, sorting through the item list doesn't need to happen instantaneously. Make it a resource-sensitive process, updating only as many items at a time as would be comfortable for the user. I don't know a thing in how such stuff is done, but it seems a reasonable alternative to having periodic pauses while the whole list of a few thousand items gets sorted through. Think how content gets updated in MMOs gradually, sacrificing looks for smoother movement (well at least that's what it seemed like in Lineage).
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 06, 2009, 12:41:56 pm
As for updating, it hit me-an option to check the dwarven frame count first, and only update if it changed (else, nothing has!) 'course, this requires locating it, but something that increases by 1 each time you hit "." doesn't strike me as one of those variables that would be difficult to find by memsearch.
...might want to embark on a mountain with hungerless/aleless/etc. people first though, or those counters would too, thinking. And station them far from each other so they don't talk.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 06, 2009, 01:33:15 pm
The other thing to look at would be the item count, of course.
As for updating, it hit me-an option to check the dwarven frame count first, and only update if it changed (else, nothing has!) 'course, this requires locating it, but something that increases by 1 each time you hit "." doesn't strike me as one of those variables that would be difficult to find by memsearch.
...might want to embark on a mountain with hungerless/aleless/etc. people first though, or those counters would too, thinking. And station them far from each other so they don't talk.
Checking the frame count to save scans could be useful if the frame rate of Stonesense exceeds the frame rate of Dwarf Fortress. I can only speak for myself, but Dwarf Fortress normally runs at 100 frames per second for me, which is greater than any display ever needs to run. I believe that the highest rate Stonesense can update without altering the init file is 20 frames per second, and that's plenty. This is a good solution, but it will only improve the speed of the visualizer if you have the visualizer updating faster than the game is.
Alright, then a question: Presuming the item list is a table of indices, then if an item is destroyed, will the empty index that's left behind be occupied by a newly-created item?
Because if it isn't, you can only keep scanning the end of the list, seeing if any more items appeared since you last looked. Item movement can usually be replicated using game logic. Monitoring creature inventories doesn't seem like that hard of a task, comparatively. Other cases of items being moved include collapses, flow pushes, ranged weapons firing. These are harder, of course.
Even if we'll be going the simple'n'hard way, sorting through the item list doesn't need to happen instantaneously. Make it a resource-sensitive process, updating only as many items at a time as would be comfortable for the user. I don't know a thing in how such stuff is done, but it seems a reasonable alternative to having periodic pauses while the whole list of a few thousand items gets sorted through. Think how content gets updated in MMOs gradually, sacrificing looks for smoother movement (well at least that's what it seemed like in Lineage).
Items might be enumerated with a unique identifier over the life of the game (LCS uses a similar system for people), but even if that's the case, it's very unlikely those would actually be indexes into an array. That would result in a giant memory leak as new memory has to be continuously allocated while previously used memory isn't released. There are data structures that can simulate this sort of indexing while not actually using an array, and therefore not hemorrhaging memory like this, but Dwarf Fortress doesn't tend to use these; it uses mainly just lots of STL Vectors. I say this because 1) the same is true of Liberal Crime Squad, and 2) he's said as much.
Assuming that it is possible to scan the end of the list for new items though, that would only work for items being created, not destroyed or moved, as you know. The problem then becomes that it's not plausible to simulate every event that can influence item movement or destruction. Maybe you can assume items currently in inventory will remain so, but when people grab items out of stockpiles or drop things for any reason, or eat food or booze "explodes", the visualizer will become desynchronized. This is just too common of an event to assume it won't happen with any frequency. (Edit: Okay, maybe booze explosions aren't that common...)
I don't mean to be a complete naysayer on your ideas though, it's good thinking, it's just that the difficulties inherent in getting your information by scanning memory with an external program severely limit our options here. I do agree that if the overhead is too high to smoothly scan the item list in a single frame, checking the list piecemeal over multiple frames is better than having a hitch in the frame rate, assuming that the item list is sufficiently stable to allow this without really strange behavior.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 06, 2009, 01:48:28 pm
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 06, 2009, 02:07:11 pm
Well, if the visualizer is desynched, you can always recheck the entire item list and put things in the right places. It's like any game being played over the net - you optimize by only sending basic commands and letting the client figure it out, but every once in a while you do send the whole lot of stuff so that the clients remain in sync.
That's true for networking, but:
1. The programs are sending event information, which DF does not do.
2. The programs share actual game logic, and so can simulate events.
3. The programs can tell if there's a desynch by comparing RNG seeds.
None of these apply here. If all you're doing is tracking item creation and creature movement, it's going to desynch almost continually once the fortress gets off the ground, and you're not going to know it. You'll have to scan regularly either way.
Assuming that items in inventory remain in inventory is common sense if you're not scanning the item list every frame, but otherwise there's not much you can simulate through the client side in a case like this. It's just not like networking where they can duplicate the game logic in both of the programs.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 06, 2009, 04:33:41 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 06, 2009, 04:54:55 pm
We can make logical assumptions, and correct when resynch comes. Slightly wasteful, and therefore it would have to be optional, but there's no other way to actually have shot projectiles displayed in the visualizer. Either way we'd have to somehow intercept the "host" function calls and get data from them....um, you could maybe look at the combat eventlogs(however that works) to generate flying projectiles. Not necessarily where they go if they miss, but at least for a combat-movie-vis (which I was brainstorming a bit on)
anywy, having an isokobold broken up into its proper layers makes building new ones messes easier than not.
additionally, do brooks crash stonesense? I think that's what's making mine come down (...and take linux with it. Funnily, music continues to play until loop point...)
Post by: Puzzlemaker on December 06, 2009, 10:25:15 pm
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 07, 2009, 01:45:53 am
Okay, I get what the problem is. Would it be possible to keep track of the previous state in a smaller format using some form of CRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check) or something?
The short answer is no, unfortunately. A CRC (or another hash function) will, after scanning both data sets, tell you if the new data and old data are different. BUT, you have to scan the new data first, which defeats the purpose for us. Furthermore, if there were changes, it doesn't tell you what changed, only that changes occurred.
That's more useful than it might sound, even if it doesn't solve the problem we're talking about. It's often faster do this than to directly compare everything in each of the data sets. More importantly, it gives you a quick and dirty way of making sure any sized amounts of data come through a network intact -- you send the data's hash along with the data, then have the receiving computer recompute the hash value on the data it receives. If the computed hash matches the hash you sent, the receiver can be confident that the data came through uncorrupted. If it doesn't match, the receiver knows some corruption occurred, and can send a message back asking the sender to send the data again. This is useful for individual network packets all the way up to entire files. Since hash values are very small, the scheme provides a very bandwidth-efficient way of making networking a lot less frustrating than it would be if computers weren't constantly doing this. There are other uses for hash functions besides network verification, but I'm already going way off topic.
Post by: bartavelle on December 07, 2009, 01:54:58 am
None of these apply here. If all you're doing is tracking item creation and creature movement, it's going to desynch almost continually once the fortress gets off the ground, and you're not going to know it. You'll have to scan regularly either way.
I did not read what you guys are specifically talking about, but it is entirely possible to get events from DF by instrumenting it. It is however a complicated task.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 07, 2009, 02:03:30 am
Okay, I get what the problem is. Would it be possible to keep track of the previous state in a smaller format using some form of CRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclic_redundancy_check) or something?
The short answer is no, unfortunately. A CRC (or another hash function) will, after scanning both data sets, tell you if the new data and old data are different. BUT, you have to scan the new data first, which defeats the purpose for us. Furthermore, if there were changes, it doesn't tell you what changed, only that changes occurred.
Too bad it's not possible to access the RAM's own checksums.
Post by: strich on December 07, 2009, 02:28:51 am
Work with me here as I'm no pro debugger here:
1. Monitor the CPU registers themselves for changes to the address space - I know its possible, I've done it. But I'll guess its the most performance intensive way to do such a thing, or anything for that matter. I don't actually propose this solution, but maybe it'll spawn a better idea.
2. Hook the code that does the writing, either DF itself (Though I'm guessing that's messy as hell) or whatever process handles writing to memory in Windows.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 07, 2009, 02:41:14 am
either DF itself (Though I'm guessing that's messy as hell)
Yeah. I think this is what bartavelle was alluding to above.
whatever process handles writing to memory in Windows.
Kernel mode hooking is apparently possible, but not for the faint of heart.
Post by: jonask84 on December 07, 2009, 12:28:10 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on December 07, 2009, 12:37:15 pm
Guys, this is really much more a dfHack discussion ;) maybe we should start a thread for dfHack?
Oops. Yeah, here's the DFHack thread. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41916.0)
Post by: Jotaf on December 07, 2009, 10:59:13 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 07, 2009, 11:50:31 pm
Well, I may as well say this while it's slightly on-topic: it wouldn't help with items, but for updating the state of tiles, you only need to check around some special locations, namely around water, lava, and dwarves (since they can dig and place stuff). It could be a huge performance benefit compared to re-reading the whole map...grass. shrubs. trees. These all grow away from those things you mentioned, and are supported in currentSS.
Post by: Deon on December 08, 2009, 04:20:01 am
Post by: Jadael on December 08, 2009, 04:42:12 am
Post by: Winterbrass on December 08, 2009, 04:51:36 am
But maybe you could figure out what's visible onscreen and only update those tiles? Or does it do that already? Not occlusion, obviously, but like, things that are off the edge of the view.I think that this, perhaps, was the stroke of brilliance that was being waited for.
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 08, 2009, 05:32:11 am
Post by: Semmy on December 08, 2009, 06:28:48 am
Wich has become alot more fun with the stonesense mod..
I would like to thank everyone who is working on this mod and hope you guys will continue this awsome work and maybe have a good talk with toady once d-;
Thank you all for making this incredible awsome mod..
Post by: Belal on December 08, 2009, 10:26:16 am
If only there was a way to locate items in a given tile. If there was a way to do that, there would be no problems whatsoever.
There probably is some way to do this. Dwarf Fortress definitely does not scan over the item vector every for every frame when it is running, so there has to be some other structure it uses to place items. The tiles have a flag which shows item occupancy, but as far as I can tell does not identify what item is occupied there. I am still trying to figure out where this information is.
Feel free to get a memory editor and hunt for it yourself!
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 08, 2009, 11:05:34 am
Post by: Fimbul on December 08, 2009, 01:32:36 pm
Feel free to point me to a memory editor, and I might have a look.http://cheatengine.org/ (http://cheatengine.org/)
Best one, IMHO.
There are lurkers here too, you know?
Post by: jonask84 on December 09, 2009, 04:04:54 pm
We're working on a big and stable release, that should firmly establish a common platform and delivery system for content creators. This will make it a lot easier for everyone, and it will certianly give all the creative content control right to back you, the DF community :)
We have codenamed this release Stonesense Granite.
Stay tuned
Post by: Greiger on December 09, 2009, 04:16:15 pm
Just a little encouragement from me. Keep up the awesome work! I would help out but the little hat on my avatar is the extent of my artistic abilities.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 09, 2009, 05:08:29 pm
Just to let you all know what we're up to:with options to (questions)
We're working on a big and stable release, that should firmly establish a common platform and delivery system for content creators. This will make it a lot easier for everyone, and it will certianly give all the creative content control right to back you, the DF community :)
We have codenamed this release Stonesense Granite.
Stay tuned
- change tilesize sans recompile?
- do merely tiles (not thickfloors) sans recompile?
- change aspects sans recompile?
- change tileset by changing few lines in a config at worst?
I reserve the right to be annoyed if it keeps its ability to take down my linuxbox.
Post by: Shoehead on December 09, 2009, 05:31:45 pm
Post by: Untelligent on December 09, 2009, 07:15:42 pm
1) When I try to run it in fullscreen, it crashes immediately after I press F9 to continue.
2) When I try to run it in 1280x800 resolution in windowed mode(or anything larger than the default, it seems), I get an "unable to set graphics mode" error.
When I run it in fullscreen AND a large resolution, it seems to prefer the first problem over the second.
Aside from these issues, it works great (aside from the fact that everything I've built is too big to fit into the default size window).
Post by: Jadael on December 09, 2009, 10:07:36 pm
The wiki (both of them) are badly outdated and really only barely useful :\
EDIT: What's the difference between stone, minstone, lavastone, and featstone? I'm assuming the various GameIDs are the types of wall sprites, like straight north/south, east/west, corners, intersections, etc. So I just need to copy all those, and then have a material name for each sprite?
Post by: Rose on December 10, 2009, 01:42:27 am
gameid specifies which kind of smoothed wall it is, what variety of random grass tile it is, whether it's dry or green, etc.
your best bet is to just copy the existing entry that is closest to what you want to add, and just change the sprite number, and the material value.
Post by: Jadael on December 10, 2009, 03:00:59 am
Post by: Rose on December 10, 2009, 03:33:04 am
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 10, 2009, 03:37:33 am
LN
Post by: kaypy on December 10, 2009, 06:00:31 am
I would recommend trying to get
In the new config system I have been working on, you would do something like:
<!-- gems -->
<block sprite= 31 >
<!-- feat wall -->
<terrain value= 335 />
<!-- vein wall -->
<terrain value= 440 />
<material value="Stone">
<subtype value="ONYX"/>
<subtype value="MORION"/>
... more gem types ...
</material>
</block>
The easiest way to get an idea of the GameID/terrain values is to have a look through DFTileTypes.h in dfhack, although A4 also has some fake types used at times.
Stone is regular layer stone. Vein is specifically the stringy veins you get with some ores. Anything else is feature stone (The example above would probably only really need the feat stone terrain type). Of course, the same stone can sometimes turn up in layer and feature.
Lavastone is specifically the obsidian you get around volcanoes. This is used to override the type info, so if you have lavastone terrain with a material of Stone and a subtype of TALC, the tile is actually obsidian regardless. So you have to treat it separately from the rest of the terrain types, but in-game it should be identical to other obsidian.
Edit: terrain config just landed on the trunk
Another edit: clarification
Post by: kaypy on December 10, 2009, 06:11:56 am
1) When I try to run it in fullscreen, it crashes immediately after I press F9 to continue.Yeah, fullscreen is FUBARed. And pretty much useless, anyway.
Quote
2) When I try to run it in 1280x800 resolution in windowed mode(or anything larger than the default, it seems), I get an "unable to set graphics mode" error.Hmm. That ought to work... What is your screen resolution?
Post by: kaypy on December 10, 2009, 06:28:23 am
with options to (questions)No, no and no- we might consider implementing something like that as and when theres an alternative tileset to go with it- until then, you can compile your own version for custom tile shapes.
- change tilesize sans recompile?
- do merely tiles (not thickfloors) sans recompile?
- change aspects sans recompile?
Quote
This is what we are aiming at right now.
- change tileset by changing few lines in a config at worst?
The tileset itself should have graphics files and xml config files. Installing should be a matter of dumping these into the right directories and adding the xml filenames to an index file. I have an example of a swappable building over in the wikia wiki that works with A4, although you have to get the xml from wiki page to file yourself...
Quote
I reserve the right to be annoyed if it keeps its ability to take down my linuxbox.Hmm. I'm surprised it's doing that now... I'm pretty sure A4 had the 'dont kill linux' version of DFHack... Does it still do that if you get the latest version?
Hey, if you're building under linux, why do you care about having to compile your own version for custom sprites? You have to compile your own version anyway...
Post by: Pyro on December 10, 2009, 06:31:39 am
Whenever I start the app it slows everything down to a crawl and uses all my cpu. Stuff only gets back to normal when I (eventually) put a window over Stonesense. The rendering seems to be very cpu hungry. I have tried changing the refresh rate to 0 and making the render size smaller but to no avail. Any idea?
Post by: kaypy on December 10, 2009, 07:27:14 am
I have tried changing the refresh rate to 0 and making the render size smaller but to no avail. Any idea?Wait, so you still have issues when the auto-refresh turns off? (ie- when it stops mentioning "Reloading every x" on the top)
Post by: Pyro on December 10, 2009, 07:43:35 am
I have tried changing the refresh rate to 0 and making the render size smaller but to no avail. Any idea?Wait, so you still have issues when the auto-refresh turns off? (ie- when it stops mentioning "Reloading every x" on the top)
That is correct. I would have thought it would be the auto-reload too. Tried running with no map loaded too and it still slows everything down. o_O
Post by: tefalo on December 10, 2009, 08:22:03 am
Stonesense Granite
Nice! Can't wait for Stonesense Microcline!
Post by: jonask84 on December 10, 2009, 08:25:04 am
I have tried changing the refresh rate to 0 and making the render size smaller but to no avail. Any idea?Wait, so you still have issues when the auto-refresh turns off? (ie- when it stops mentioning "Reloading every x" on the top)
That is correct. I would have thought it would be the auto-reload too. Tried running with no map loaded too and it still slows everything down. o_O
Yes, I think I know what this is. DirectX will only update the active window, hence if you don't want your DirectX application to freeze when losing focus, you have to switch to CPU rendering... At least, that is my understanding of the problem...
Most people don't notice this too much, because they have monster CPUs.
Does it help to set window focus back to Stonesense?
Post by: jonask84 on December 10, 2009, 08:25:39 am
Post by: Pyro on December 10, 2009, 09:01:30 am
I have tried changing the refresh rate to 0 and making the render size smaller but to no avail. Any idea?Wait, so you still have issues when the auto-refresh turns off? (ie- when it stops mentioning "Reloading every x" on the top)
That is correct. I would have thought it would be the auto-reload too. Tried running with no map loaded too and it still slows everything down. o_O
Yes, I think I know what this is. DirectX will only update the active window, hence if you don't want your DirectX application to freeze when losing focus, you have to switch to CPU rendering... At least, that is my understanding of the problem...
Most people don't notice this too much, because they have monster CPUs.
Does it help to set window focus back to Stonesense?
Not really. However I seemed to have made it become somewhat responcive after halving the window size (640*480), tile xy display count (45) and turning off LIFTSEGMENT.
A previouse version of stonesence seemed to run ok. Perhaps a new feature requiring more CPU grunt has been added and is showing the age of mine (AMD Athlon 3200+ XP)
Post by: jonask84 on December 10, 2009, 09:15:10 am
Post by: Footkerchief on December 10, 2009, 12:22:40 pm
Post by: Pyro on December 10, 2009, 12:28:44 pm
To be honest, that bug has come and gone on my system (which is a 3400+ btw, so I know your pain :p). Right now I'm a laptop, so it's hard to reproduce, but I will look into it as best I can.
Cheers man.
I tried running it on my EEE PC and it seems to work ok (after knocking the window size back to 640x480 to fit on the screen).
Post by: quinnr on December 10, 2009, 03:04:25 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 10, 2009, 06:18:59 pm
Well, I'm not so interested in the custom shapes- mine's the usual over-2-up-1 iso, if 16x16- but I know Mayday is working on the shapes side.with options to (questions)No, no and no- we might consider implementing something like that as and when theres an alternative tileset to go with it- until then, you can compile your own version for custom tile shapes.
- change tilesize sans recompile?
- do merely tiles (not thickfloors) sans recompile?
- change aspects sans recompile?
Hmm...how can one implement palettization efficiently...that would really help my endeavour (which is a minimal, appear-like-DF approach).
As for my tilesets? They're presently in actual DF-tileset form. I ran into the boundary of how tiles share graphics though (World tileset (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41692.msg795656#msg795656) is ONE SHARED TILE barring proper render! ONE! And it is actually the elves' fault!), leading me to abandon my mockup-shortcut trick tilesets...for that purpose.
Hey, if you're building under linux, why do you care about having to compile your own version for custom sprites? You have to compile your own version anyway...Consider that I'd need to compile one version per tileset and tell me how this isn't more inconvenient.
Furthermore, if you need to grab/compile a new version for each different tileset type, it makes it far less likely for people to use fringe tilesets.
Post by: Untelligent on December 10, 2009, 08:43:05 pm
One oddity I found: I have the default option set to show 50 z-levels, but when I start it up it only shows 30 or so; I can increase the z-levels shown after it starts via the keyboard command, so it's not that important, but I thought it was odd.
It also doesn't appear to be showing as much xy space as it should; this may be because it's extending the viewing distance below the viewing window instead of further out, but I wouldn't know.
Obligatory fortress pics:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on December 10, 2009, 09:00:18 pm
I could make something pretty like that... I just don't wanna show you all up is all... Yea... that's it.
...
How do all of you people have the patience for this stuff? I'm perfectly happy if I get a castle that looks reasonably like a castle between all the goblin, orc and megabeast attacks.
Post by: N3X15 on December 10, 2009, 09:38:06 pm
Code: [Select]
Unable to load image terrain/blocks.png
File simply doesn't exist. I looked.
Ubuntu Karmic 9.10.
Post by: Untelligent on December 10, 2009, 10:28:27 pm
I'm perfectly happy if I get a castle that looks reasonably like a castle between all the goblin, orc and megabeast attacks.
Surviving long enough that the goblins run out of goblins helps in that regard. My fortress is more than thirty years old and I don't think I've been attacked at all in the last ten or so. On my fourth page of artifacts, too.
Post by: kaypy on December 10, 2009, 11:24:26 pm
Only for wacky-sized tilesets. So its one version per tile-shape you want. Since at the moment there are a reasonable amount of tiles for one tile-shape, I dont see an issue.Hey, if you're building under linux, why do you care about having to compile your own version for custom sprites? You have to compile your own version anyway...Consider that I'd need to compile one version per tileset and tell me how this isn't more inconvenient.
Furthermore, if you need to grab/compile a new version for each different tileset type, it makes it far less likely for people to use fringe tilesets.
Sorry. I forgot to commit a file when I merged in the terrain config. Peterix fixed it about an hour back. (thanks, Peterix)Code: [Select]Unable to load image terrain/blocks.png
Alright, I tried a slightly smaller resolution and it works fine now.Yay!
Quote
One oddity I found: I have the default option set to show 50 z-levels, but when I start it up it only shows 30 or so; I can increase the z-levels shown after it starts via the keyboard command, so it's not that important, but I thought it was odd.Yeah it clips the input to 'sensible' values. We forgot to take into account forts not necessarily being sensible 8-)
Quote
It also doesn't appear to be showing as much xy space as it should; this may be because it's extending the viewing distance below the viewing window instead of further out, but I wouldn't know.The next release should have a config option to move the screen back a specified amount rather than just a boolean 'move it back' option. If I can talk Jonask into it, I could even make it on-the-fly changeable...
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 10, 2009, 11:55:51 pm
Present Stonesense: Thickfloors are a separate tilekind? I really don't understand how the tiles are arranged, t hough I understand that it's treating the "floor" area as one thing 4px deep and the "wall" area as another(like DF construction) 32px deep, with widths of 32px.Only for wacky-sized tilesets. So its one version per tile-shape you want. Since at the moment there are a reasonable amount of tiles for one tile-shape, I dont see an issue.Hey, if you're building under linux, why do you care about having to compile your own version for custom sprites? You have to compile your own version anyway...Consider that I'd need to compile one version per tileset and tell me how this isn't more inconvenient.
Furthermore, if you need to grab/compile a new version for each different tileset type, it makes it far less likely for people to use fringe tilesets.
Old stonesense: A wall and the floor are in the same cube with no separator. 32x32. Acts like DF viewing in that fashion (a tile can be floor, wall+floor, or neither.)
These strike me as things that should be easily shifted from defines to variables (though you might want to add some checks for robustness). The shape...well, could be either way really. Mayday's would appear to only require a. a different tileset and b. a different alignment of tiles- (and, c. disabling/altering of a few things that are shape-dependent elsewhere- the tile-edgeline for instance, last I looked at the source.)
Tilesize and floor thickness at least- whether the alternate/separate floor tile exists may require more intrusion than those two variables.
My tileset concept is 16x16 nofloorthick, anyway. Its present form works all right for mockups, if you manage to avoid the hundreds of things that won't work well with same tile.
Spoiler: I've been busy. (click to show/hide)
Post by: tobias on December 11, 2009, 03:25:37 am
For interchangeable tilesets (probably more easily added sooner than later; less to change), I'd suggest a tilesets folder with subfolders for each configuration. Each folder can name images however it pleases, and then the xml files will either have standardized names, or maybe stonesense just loads all files ending in xml; I'll leave that up to your discretion. These files state which image files they're referring to for their image indexing and index the objects, like in the current xml files.
For making mini-mods to tilesets feasible, I'd suggest making a setting in the config that gives an interface for loading multiple tilesets. It starts by loading the first in the list, then loads the next one, overwriting anything previously defined by old tilesets with ones in the new set, that way any images not specified in the new set won't be displayed as blanks in the viewer, and it's easier to change, say, only the trap graphics, and have them usable without inserting the trap graphic into a dozen other tilesets, so everyone can have them with the tileset they prefer.
As an example of how stonesense would load the tilesets...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry for the long-windedness. :-X
EDIT: Oh, and I failed to specify, tilesets would be referred to in the configuration file by their folder name.
Post by: jonask84 on December 11, 2009, 06:54:12 am
Been lurking this thread for a looong time now, finally decided to post a suggestion.
For interchangeable tilesets (probably more easily added sooner than later; less to change), I'd suggest a tilesets folder with subfolders for each configuration. Each folder can name images however it pleases, and then the xml files will either have standardized names, or maybe stonesense just loads all files ending in xml; I'll leave that up to your discretion. These files state which image files they're referring to for their image indexing and index the objects, like in the current xml files.
For making mini-mods to tilesets feasible, I'd suggest making a setting in the config that gives an interface for loading multiple tilesets. It starts by loading the first in the list, then loads the next one, overwriting anything previously defined by old tilesets with ones in the new set, that way any images not specified in the new set won't be displayed as blanks in the viewer, and it's easier to change, say, only the trap graphics, and have them usable without inserting the trap graphic into a dozen other tilesets, so everyone can have them with the tileset they prefer.
As an example of how stonesense would load the tilesets...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sorry for the long-windedness. :-X
EDIT: Oh, and I failed to specify, tilesets would be referred to in the configuration file by their folder name.
Hey tobias! thanks for the input!
We're working on a system just like that (or at least very similar), but you raise some very valid points in there we're gonna make sure works okay.
We're gonna be using index files, so the user can specify the load order (folder names would be alphabetically) which prevents the situation where for instance the kitten mini-mod is loaded first, and then replaced by a more generic mod later. An index file let's the user customize load orders.
Post by: winner on December 11, 2009, 07:39:40 pm
Stonesense Granite.because our wishes are granite?
Post by: Ixoran on December 12, 2009, 02:06:21 am
Post by: Osmosis Jones on December 12, 2009, 02:26:36 am
Post by: Christes on December 12, 2009, 02:35:20 am
Post by: Julius Clonkus on December 12, 2009, 03:56:23 am
Also:
Holy schist, this thread is mica me sick.Sig'd.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 12, 2009, 04:11:50 am
Post by: Winterbrass on December 12, 2009, 04:40:54 am
There's too much off-topic talc in here. I chalk it up to a lack of updates.But of quartzite's gonna get off-topic. Too much gabbro. Needs to be more to-the-point, even at the risk of being chert.
Post by: Christes on December 12, 2009, 05:23:01 am
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on December 12, 2009, 06:31:39 am
Post by: Neruz on December 12, 2009, 06:50:52 am
Post by: Cult of the Raven on December 12, 2009, 12:41:36 pm
I'd like to know of some way I can make and assign sprites to my custom creatures. I like watching my dwarves run around, but I get sad when their pet spiders are merely questionmarks on the screen.
Post by: Winterbrass on December 12, 2009, 02:24:52 pm
May I just complement Winterbrass on that impressive use of quartzite.Merci. I considered it a little weak at the time, but in retrospect, I think it works nicely.
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 12, 2009, 04:08:40 pm
Next time you find a pun that good please bauxite and ship it straight to me.May I just complement Winterbrass on that impressive use of quartzite.Merci. I considered it a little weak at the time, but in retrospect, I think it works nicely.
Seriously though, I'll be laughing alunite long at it.
(ugh)
Post by: Greiger on December 12, 2009, 07:08:50 pm
If I may make an on-topic request for this particular tool:
I'd like to know of some way I can make and assign sprites to my custom creatures. I like watching my dwarves run around, but I get sad when their pet spiders are merely questionmarks on the screen.
After a little screwing around with my own mods it seems you can. I made all my custom fortress residents use the human tiles successfully by just copying the human entry replacing "HUMAN" with "DRACON" in creatures.xml. And after figuring out the sprite index numbering by examining creatures.png. I then assigned them a blank tile with a scribble in it and they used it. Now if only I had artistic ability I could draw my own sprites.
But in your case you could just use the GCS sprite if you were so inclined. Just stick <Creature gameID="(CUSTOM_SPIDER)" sheetIndex = 36 /> If that's what your after.
But If I read this thread properly you'll be able to create your own sprite files and configs soon, not having to mess with the vanilla spritesheet and config.
P.S. Oh and if you don't know xml files are opened with notepad.
Post by: kaypy on December 13, 2009, 12:19:07 am
[wall of text]Ok, heres how it looks it will work in granite (unless we have some last minute change)
* there are index files and xml files
* xml files configure how the graphics work
* index files are a list of additional files to load (can be more xml files or more index files)
* it all starts with one master index.txt file in the main stonesense directory
* all xml files can define the pngs they work with, and well as the sprites within these png files
* file loading is done in a way similar to web links: "dir/file.xml" is relative to the file you find it in, while "/dir/file.xml" is relative to the stonesense root
* the order of sprite definitions (as listed in the index files) determines which takes precedence- first definition (depth first) wins
thus you can add a directory with its own pngs, xmls, and indexes to the stonesense dir, and then add the index file to the top of the master index file, and everything will work from there if the contents have been set up right.
Post by: jonask84 on December 13, 2009, 06:43:34 am
But in your case you could just use the GCS sprite if you were so inclined. Just stick <Creature gameID="(CUSTOM_SPIDER)" sheetIndex = 36 /> If that's what your after.
But If I read this thread properly you'll be able to create your own sprite files and configs soon, not having to mess with the vanilla spritesheet and config.
That is absolutely right, thanks for clearing up Greiger.
See these (somewhat outdated) tutorials:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/AddingCreatures
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/wiki/Sprites
They're being overhauled for the Granite release, and moved to DFwiki, but they should be compatible for a4 and a4.1
Post by: Retro on December 13, 2009, 08:01:22 am
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 13, 2009, 11:54:12 am
So here's Asciso, inspired by Cobalt Kobold's stuff. The display is supposed to work exactly as in vanilla DF: the tiles used are the normal curses font. The only things that would work different:
Walls - cubes with skewed and flattened tiles drawn on them
Floors (could use flattened material tile)
Stairs and ramps would be normal graphical tiles
Creatures lying on the floor could be displayed as flattened (as seen on the mockup, the left dwarf)
All objects would get automatically created edges to make them stand out on the background.
Post by: Thursday Postal on December 13, 2009, 12:23:28 pm
So here's Asciso, inspired by Cobalt Kobold's stuff. (The stairs aren't done). The display is supposed to work exactly as in vanilla DF: the tiles used are the normal curses font. The only things that would work different:
Walls - cubes with skewed and flattened tiles drawn on them
Floors (could use flattened material tile)
Stairs and ramps would be normal graphical tiles
Creatures lying on the floor could be displayed as flattened (as seen on the mockup, the left dwarf)
All objects would get automatically created edges to make them stand out on the background.
Are the tops of the walls floors, or just top of the wall icons? I guess it's just one layer, it's up to how DF displays one layer at a time?
Post by: shikijiyu on December 13, 2009, 12:49:35 pm
...but I use a mac. :'(
Is there any hope for me?
Post by: DennyTom on December 13, 2009, 02:33:03 pm
I would really, REALLY, -R-E-A-L-L-Y- like to try Stonesense...
...but I use a mac. :'(
Is there any hope for me?
Play on virtual machine?
Post by: zakata69 on December 13, 2009, 05:44:57 pm
I would love to get this working
Post by: ctharvey on December 13, 2009, 06:00:03 pm
I would really, REALLY, -R-E-A-L-L-Y- like to try Stonesense...get a cheap copy of xp throw it on bootcamp
...but I use a mac. :'(
Is there any hope for me?
Post by: kaypy on December 13, 2009, 07:23:49 pm
I would really, REALLY, -R-E-A-L-L-Y- like to try Stonesense...The primary reason for the lack of mac support is a lack of mac developers, especially on the DFHack side. If you have some time, maybe you could help get it working? It needs a bit of programming and a lot of memory hacking to hunt down the mac memory offsets.
...but I use a mac. :'(
Is there any hope for me?
DFHack information: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41916.0 (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=41916.0)
Post by: peterix on December 13, 2009, 07:45:13 pm
Post by: jonask84 on December 14, 2009, 06:29:02 am
I decided to make a gravity defying leap from the original ASCII graphics to this... But after i hit F9 (on Stonesense) i get a the message "could not find DF process". Im running the latest version of DF, on windows 7. Just to clarify: 'Dwarf Fortress is running when i run stonesense'.
I would love to get this working
I can't see any obvious reason why it won't work...
I run XP myself, so I'm not sure about this, but maybe you can try compatibility mode?
Does it help to try an older version of DF?
Post by: Mraedis on December 14, 2009, 10:05:22 am
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 14, 2009, 06:01:56 pm
LN
Post by: guale on December 14, 2009, 06:58:40 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 14, 2009, 07:51:03 pm
I really tried searching but all I could find out is that there are instructions out there for this but how do I make this work on Linux? I'm a bit of a newbie at Linux.The instructions I put together are here
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/ON%20COMPILING.txt (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/ON%20COMPILING.txt)
(down the bottom) but I'm just going on what other folks say, not having set it up under linux myself
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 15, 2009, 04:02:45 am
Um...I think last definition taking precedence makes more sense. That's how DF does it, I think. (Dwarf graphic. Then, professions, then positions, etc?) I'd need to ask someone who actually made a graphics pack.[wall of text]Ok, heres how it looks it will work in granite (unless we have some last minute change)
* there are index files and xml files
* xml files configure how the graphics work
* index files are a list of additional files to load (can be more xml files or more index files)
* it all starts with one master index.txt file in the main stonesense directory
* all xml files can define the pngs they work with, and well as the sprites within these png files
* file loading is done in a way similar to web links: "dir/file.xml" is relative to the file you find it in, while "/dir/file.xml" is relative to the stonesense root
* the order of sprite definitions (as listed in the index files) determines which takes precedence- first definition (depth first) wins
thus you can add a directory with its own pngs, xmls, and indexes to the stonesense dir, and then add the index file to the top of the master index file, and everything will work from there if the contents have been set up right.
(http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/~mayday/upload/asciso.png)Nicely accomplished. Does it respect BGcolors for stones? Also, I'd recommend rotating rather than squashing, though that would require more work...obsidian/granite'll look weird else.
So here's Asciso, inspired by Cobalt Kobold's stuff. The display is supposed to work exactly as in vanilla DF: the tiles used are the normal curses font. The only things that would work different:
Walls - cubes with skewed and flattened tiles drawn on them
Floors (could use flattened material tile)
Stairs and ramps would be normal graphical tiles
Creatures lying on the floor could be displayed as flattened (as seen on the mockup, the left dwarf)
All objects would get automatically created edges to make them stand out on the background.
Kinda busy now so I can't crank out my own version atm.
Post by: Jadael on December 15, 2009, 04:33:29 am
Post by: lemonpieman on December 15, 2009, 04:46:33 am
Post by: jonask84 on December 15, 2009, 04:58:51 am
Lo, and behold. In my triumphant return to these lands I am led to tears. My dream of seeing this mastery of pixels in action has been fulfilled. Jonask, Solifuge, and Kaypy, If you are ever in need of wealth, consumables, or a thatch roof shielding yourself from the harsh sky, merely send me a telegram and I shall ride.
Thank you sir, that is very kind :)
We do our best, and so does the entire community.
So a beer next time we're in town sounds about right 8)
Post by: Khalan on December 15, 2009, 08:52:59 am
This has come a long way very quickly, up to release 4.1 already in only 3 months!
I actually read through all 134 pages of this thread, it's quite interesting watching the pixel art and engine progress. So I'm sorry for asking questions that have been asked before, but it's hard to remember all the answers :)
As the program has moved so quickly, can we expect another release before the new year? (Not rushing you, just hopeful)
And will objects be supported in the future? I honestly can't think of any other feature that Stonesense needs to be complete, for me at least (other than the few missing sprites). Animations would be nice, but at the moment the movement style fits nicely with DF itself.
I decided to make a gravity defying leap from the original ASCII graphics to this... But after i hit F9 (on Stonesense) i get a the message "could not find DF process". Im running the latest version of DF, on windows 7. Just to clarify: 'Dwarf Fortress is running when i run stonesense'.Just guessing here, but if you have either Stonesense or DF installed in the Program Files directory, it's possible they may be running as a protected process, and therefore possibly inaccessable. You could try installing in a different directory if you haven't already.
I would love to get this working
Post by: jonask84 on December 15, 2009, 09:03:40 am
As the program has moved so quickly, can we expect another release before the new year? (Not rushing you, just hopeful)
And will objects be supported in the future? I honestly can't think of any other feature that Stonesense needs to be complete, for me at least (other than the few missing sprites). Animations would be nice, but at the moment the movement style fits nicely with DF itself.
Glad to hear you liked it :)
To address a few of your questions:
- Yes. Kaypy and I've been talking all day, and it looks like we're gonna launch a release candidate of Stonesense 1.0 (codenamed Granite) tonight. There will only be a few new on-the-surface features, since the BIG improvement here has been easier Custom Content management.
- I agree, objects are the one last remaining thing. Right now it's something on our wish list, and it's something to work towards in a 2.0 release... The main problem is the share number of objects of course (Please, guys, don't flooded the thread with theoretical discussions of how it could be done unless you seriously know what you're talking about ;) )
- Animations is a thing I personally am a bit on the fence about... Subtle animations, sure. They work.
Having things bounce and skate about, try to hack in improvised movement... Not so much. See what I'm getting at here?
Post by: gilrad on December 15, 2009, 10:19:53 am
Also, this was brought up during that huge debate about isometric facing sprites, but I think it could be useful even now. Is it possible to have each sprite compare it's last position to its current one with each refresh, so that they can face different directions based on the direction they're traveling? Naturally nobody's made and back-facing sprites yet, but it would still look great if you just flip them based on left-right movement.
Post by: jonask84 on December 15, 2009, 10:36:53 am
Any chance shadows and depth shading will be in Granite? It would really add a lot to complex fortress designs I think :)
We have tech demos of both those working in the works right now, but the thing is neither look particularly good:
Shadows just don't work right, from DF. What's inside and what's under open sky/light/dark is simply not too loose a concept (again, I don't want to spark a huge debate. Just trust me on this one ;) )
Depth shading looks really nice in some cases, and horrible in others. And it's certainly something we're gonna add later. The only reason it's not getting into Granite is because it's too heavy to render, and we don't have time to merge it in.
As for the facing thing... And again, I don't want to set off that huge argument ;)
It comes down to the level-of-detail debate:
I think when 200 dragons can fit on one tile, there's a leap of faith here somewhere.
Personally I think facing directions is an unnecessary level of detail.
And since it would require A LOT of dubious code and assumptions,
it's my opinion that even though some people have requested it,
it's simply way too little visual bang for the programming buck.
Creatures don't face any direction in-game, and so they won't in Stonesense.
Hope that clears that up for now ;D
Post by: Khalan on December 15, 2009, 10:38:24 am
Brilliant!
- Yes. Kaypy and I've been talking all day, and it looks like we're gonna launch a release candidate of Stonesense 1.0 (codenamed Granite) tonight. There will only be a few new on-the-surface features, since the BIG improvement here has been easier Custom Content management.
Sounds good. I imagine it would need to be similar to how DF does it, ie. alternating the visibility of different items on one tile.
- I agree, objects are the one last remaining thing. Right now it's something on our wish list, and it's something to work towards in a 2.0 release... The main problem is the share number of objects of course (Please, guys, don't flooded the thread with theoretical discussions of how it could be done unless you seriously know what you're talking about ;) )
Totally understand, I like the windmill animation etc, and I'm happy with the movement being the same as DF, ie. jumping from tile to tile.
- Animations is a thing I personally am a bit on the fence about... Subtle animations, sure. They work.
Having things bounce and skate about, try to hack in improvised movement... Not so much. See what I'm getting at here?
I appreciate the replies, thanks very much.
Some pixel art I've done for one of my older projects, some feedback from people would be great so I can decide whether to try contributing or not. Obviously not all of this is 32x32. The trees are pretty flat now I look at them, there are definitely things to improve on.
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u318/Talak_DB/Iso.png)
I'm used to doing 3D artwork, such as this (an item I made for Mount&Blade):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS. the tiles were purposely made to display the grid lines.
Post by: Haspen on December 15, 2009, 01:35:47 pm
Creatures don't face any direction in-game, and so they won't in Stonesense.
Hope that clears that up for now ;D
They do.
Play some Adventure Mode and pay attention to combat messages, with proper charging/dodging you can get "You strike the Giant from behind (...)" as a proof that creatures are 'facing' one of 8 directions.
Post by: JanusTwoface on December 15, 2009, 01:52:20 pm
Also, Stonesense cannot implement it until DFHack does (if DF itself actually has this data) anyways, so the point is still somewhat moot.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 15, 2009, 02:01:11 pm
Play some Adventure Mode and pay attention to combat messages, with proper charging/dodging you can get "You strike the Giant from behind (...)" as a proof that creatures are 'facing' one of 8 directions.
We've gone over this like a billion times in this thread already, but that "facing" only exists while creatures are attacking: (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=2287.msg36812#msg36812)
Quote from: Toady One
Right now it doesn't have "facing", but it has a directional bias that builds up as you attack in a certain direction repeatedly (which then opens you up to attacks). That will be changed during the combat arc when I add something like a situational awareness skill. I'm always wary of a strict facing. I dislike vision cones and having to change direction manually. It just doesn't seem that realistic, especially if you are in an alert state. You have a neck to see all around you, which shouldn't take a turn to move and therefore you shouldn't have to control at all, the ability to use a stance that's more complicated than simply pointing in one direction (for example, how you position your legs can help determine whether you are more prone to being knocked over from the front or from the sides), and the ability to walk in all directions, not just the direction your head/body is facing. On the other hand, you should be able to sneak up being a lazy guard that's facing away from you (rather than just using a magical sneak mode like we've got now). I was thinking of doing momentum when you can differentiate between running and walking.
I have done a bit with this -- if you fight in one direction in adventure mode now, you'll become focused on that direction and more susceptible to attacks from behind.
It's still possible to fake the facing from movement, of course.
Post by: jonask84 on December 15, 2009, 02:48:01 pm
Post by: Neonivek on December 15, 2009, 05:36:14 pm
Post by: tobias on December 15, 2009, 06:08:31 pm
Yes. Kaypy and I've been talking all day, and it looks like we're gonna launch a release candidate of Stonesense 1.0 (codenamed Granite) tonight. There will only be a few new on-the-surface features, since the BIG improvement here has been easier Custom Content management.There will be a post for this, right? I keep getting nervous I'm gonna miss it.
Post by: Truean on December 15, 2009, 07:38:45 pm
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34633.0
With GUI.... Things we can learn from this? Things we can improve upon? Discuss.
Post by: kaypy on December 15, 2009, 08:18:20 pm
Competition: http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34633.0Actually, Khazad was on the scene first, by about 6 months. There is a fair amount of sharing between the projects- they are based on the same library, (which I believe was itself originally part of Khazad before being libraryized)
With GUI.... Things we can learn from this? Things we can improve upon? Discuss.
The main differences are that Khazad is 3d while Stonesense is sprite-based. The sprites make it easy for old-style pixel-pushers to contribute, and between that and a well timed youtube video Stonesense got all the press...
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 15, 2009, 10:12:02 pm
Post by: jonask84 on December 16, 2009, 02:51:08 am
Further I feel there's a big difference in what our two visualizers do. What I mean is, Khazad loads the entire map, everything, and displays it in a very easy to understand and beautiful 3D landscape. Awesome for fortress planning and management, especially mega projects etc.
Stonesense can only display a tiny bit of the screen at once, but it can do that realtime. So it's closer to a user interface (although we have a bit of a way left to go)
Post by: Khalan on December 16, 2009, 09:30:36 am
Thanks to the programmers and all the artists for all the hard work.
Post by: jonask84 on December 16, 2009, 12:56:56 pm
Stonesense Granite is here!
Don't delay, get it right away (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/stonesense_1_0_RC1.rar)!
This is the FIRST RELEASE CANDIDATE, so please report any errors.
Also launching Right Now is The Stonesense Content Repository (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository)!
What is the Content Repository you ask?
Well it's the most wonderful thing ever!
For months now, you wonderful and creative people have been uploading cool artwork and crazy content to this thread for us all to see. But there has yet to be an efficient way of distributing this awesome landslide of creativity.
The Stonesense Content Repository seeks to ease this pain!
It works exactly like the Tileset or Graphics set repos we already know for DF, but this is for Stonesense!
So if you've changed all the dwarfs with mario toadstools, made 100 extra plants for your mod, or swapped all the walls with Legos:
Why not share it with everyone?
Upload your stuff to the Stonesense Content Repository today!
"But wait Jonas, we're so much in awe of all this that we almost didn't realize we're totally clueless as to how to make a Content Pack" you might think (you better!).
Fret not! We've thought of that, and written Tutorials! These wonderful masterpieces of modern literature can be found on the DF wiki, on the Stonesense page. Right here (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense_(visualizer)#Modding_With_Stonesense), that is.
Now, enough talk! Let's get creative!
(And I will be right here, answering any and all silly questions :D)
Post by: Footkerchief on December 16, 2009, 01:08:49 pm
Post by: jonask84 on December 16, 2009, 01:13:16 pm
Jonas -- if you want to retitle the thread to catch people's attention, you can do so by editing the OP. Also the images in the OP are still broken.Good idea mate. I'm pushing Granite on like six different channels now, but I'll get around to it :)
Post by: cooz on December 16, 2009, 01:48:29 pm
I have one issues, in v4 I had to press keys quite long to eg move one level down, now in Granite RC quick pressing PgDown moves view 2 levels down.
Would it be possible to add init options like d16# has?
[KEY_HOLD_MS:150]
[KEY_REPEAT_MS:150]
Post by: Khalan on December 16, 2009, 01:50:02 pm
Only thing I can see so far is that you forgot to add the 1.0 info to the changelog.txt file.
Should be interesting seeing the content packs as they're released.
Post by: Greiger on December 16, 2009, 02:11:07 pm
Windows automatically saved it as a jpg, and now it's just a blurry mess. *sigh* If I did pixelart more often that might have convinced me to go out and get better editing software than MS Paint. It was pretty much just an edit of the genero human anyway.
Stonesense appears to be working well anyway. I like how I can tell the adamantine veins from the inside of generic [LARGE_CLUSTER] rock now at a glance.
Is the part of the debug cursor that tells the stone type still around, just hidden or was it removed? (I did pretty much just use it to spot magnetite and hematite veins so I guess to make cheating more difficult makes sense.)
Post by: jonask84 on December 16, 2009, 02:19:30 pm
Khalan: thanks, that's noted too. Oh and there's no way to set that, yet, at least :)
Greiger: Yeah I think we took it out when we redid terrain. We need to put it back in...
Post by: quinnr on December 16, 2009, 06:29:49 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 16, 2009, 07:33:38 pm
Is the part of the debug cursor that tells the stone type still around, just hidden or was it removed? (I did pretty much just use it to spot magnetite and hematite veins so I guess to make cheating more difficult makes sense.)Since it handles different material types now, it was harder to get it to work for everything, and for the moment it gives the numeric indexes rather than the name. At some stage I will add in the reverse lookup to get the name back.
Post by: Greiger on December 16, 2009, 07:52:49 pm
It links to this. http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Here small error I assume?
I also seem to get miner's not getting their sprite from the sprite sheet correctly. They always seem to just grab the default at the top of the entry instead. Though I'm not entirely certain yet it's not just user error. My game is pretty modded after all.
Post by: kaypy on December 16, 2009, 08:00:35 pm
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/)
Little thing I noticed while making my own little sprites is on the adding creatures help page it says you can find all the profession names here. With here being a link.Placeholder for a nonexistant page I am guessing.
It links to this. http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Here small error I assume?
You are probably best off having a look through the Memory.xml file
Quote
I also seem to get miner's not getting their sprite from the sprite sheet correctly. They always seem to just grab the default at the top of the entry instead. Though I'm not entirely certain yet it's not just user error. My game is pretty modded after all.How modded? Are your dwarves still DWARF in the raws?
Post by: Greiger on December 16, 2009, 08:15:24 pm
My XML so far
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can upload the spritesheet so far if you want but it's not done yet, not professional quality, and basically just the default human base with edits.
P.S. And Yes I spell stonesense wrong repeatedly. For some reason I have some tick that always makes me spell sense with a c.
>>>>>>>>I FIGURED IT OUT!<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It was user error.
It was reading the generic female tag first I guess, and all my miners are female, a fact that I overlooked, with the sprite differences being so subtle. So it used the female peasant one for all my female jobs. Placing the female tag at the bottom fixed that properly.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 16, 2009, 08:38:51 pm
It was user error.Yeah, it was mentioned it's opposite to DF's order. First matched is used rather than last.
It was reading the generic female tag first I guess, and all my miners are female, a fact that I overlooked, with the sprite differences being so subtle. So it used the female peasant one for all my female jobs. Placing the female tag at the bottom fixed that properly.
Post by: LegoLord on December 16, 2009, 08:54:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BatCountry on December 16, 2009, 08:56:54 pm
Little thing I noticed while making my own little sprites is on the adding creatures help page it says you can find all the profession names here. With here being a link.
It links to this. http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Here small error I assume?
I fixed that and did some minor cosmetic wiki work. Anybody is welcome to edit wiki pages if they have something constructive to add, of course. This is the magic of wiki.
Post by: smirk on December 16, 2009, 09:03:18 pm
I just tried to look at my soap tower (for the challenge in DF general discussion), and this happened:I don't think that's supposed to happen. None of my walls or floors are showing up.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Exact same just happened to me. the log says:
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
File name parsing failed on terrain/index.txt
File name parsing failed on creatures/index.txt
File name parsing failed on buildings/index.txt
File name parsing failed on vegetation/index.txtOddly, it's still showing vegetation, just nothing else...
Edit for useful info: Running on Windows XP, downloaded the RAR distro rather than the windows installer, didn't touch the init or anything else before running it.
Post by: LegoLord on December 16, 2009, 09:08:32 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 16, 2009, 09:18:15 pm
This catches enough people out that we build the installer- try that and see if you still have problems.
(or just figure out what went wrong in the rar unpacking)
Post by: smirk on December 16, 2009, 09:48:26 pm
Some people have trouble unpacking rars resulting in truncated directory structures and hence no graphics.
This catches enough people out that we build the installer- try that and see if you still have problems.
(or just figure out what went wrong in the rar unpacking)
Odd... the installer worked no better, BUT I did get the graphics to start working by putting Stonesense's containing folder at my drive root: C:\Stonesense Granite\init.txt, etc.
I really have no idea why this would be the case. But there it is.
Also: Thanks so much for building Stonesense, guys! This thing makes me very happy.
Post by: jonask84 on December 17, 2009, 04:39:44 am
Some people have trouble unpacking rars resulting in truncated directory structures and hence no graphics.
This catches enough people out that we build the installer- try that and see if you still have problems.
(or just figure out what went wrong in the rar unpacking)
Odd... the installer worked no better, BUT I did get the graphics to start working by putting Stonesense's containing folder at my drive root: C:\Stonesense Granite\init.txt, etc.
I really have no idea why this would be the case. But there it is.
Also: Thanks so much for building Stonesense, guys! This thing makes me very happy.
Hmm, I have a sneaking suspicion.. What folder did you put it in when it didn't work?
Post by: Roundabout Lout on December 17, 2009, 04:28:16 pm
No one's been near my river in years after it was overfished, yet Stonesense shows two stationary children near the river. It was my fisherdwarves who had their children kidnapped due to lack of protection that far out, so it makes sense to me. So they're still there in spirit!
I'll throw in a screenshot when I have time after finals tonight.
Post by: smirk on December 17, 2009, 04:31:50 pm
Hmm, I have a sneaking suspicion.. What folder did you put it in when it didn't work?
Oh goodness me, do you really want such a window into my horrible organizational skills?
C:\Documents and Settings\Foaloke\Desktop\desktop\Distractions\games\new\df\df_28_181_40d16_win\Stonesense Granite
If ever there was an un-truncated directory structure, that is it 0_o It worked just fine for previous Stonesense releases, though.
Post by: jarathor on December 17, 2009, 06:43:02 pm
Everything is working perfectly for me. It'll be great to see all of the new content people will make now that there's a place to post stuff.
Great work to all who have helped put this together.
Post by: kaypy on December 17, 2009, 08:16:27 pm
C:\Documents and Settings\Foaloke\Desktop\desktop\Distractions\games\new\df\df_28_181_40d16_win\Stonesense GraniteAh yes, that would blow out the filename buffers. (The file handling is a bit more complex these days, and needs to become an absolute path at some points).
I do test for buffer size (hence it not messily crashing), but I guess I need (a) larger buffers and (b) better feedback on failure
Post by: Roundabout Lout on December 17, 2009, 11:20:43 pm
Started DF paused, so Stonesense is updated in the shot.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Zulban is the dwarf in question. You can't quite see the where the other Stonesense child should be in the DF screen, but he also is no longer in the fort.
Post by: jonask84 on December 18, 2009, 02:48:50 am
Here is the Stonesense snatched child ghost screen.
Started DF paused, so Stonesense is updated in the shot.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Zulban is the dwarf in question. You can't quite see the where the other Stonesense child should be in the DF screen, but he also is no longer in the fort.
Thanks yougiedeggs, I've seen this before myself too... Seems to happen with all kidnapped children, so I'm going to add it to Known Issues.
Hope he's not too much in the way, and that you can still enjoy Stonesense :D
Post by: kaypy on December 18, 2009, 05:57:28 am
I think Stonesense might have a problem with snatched children.Yes, the problem is that we have no way to distinguish a non-present, kidnapped child from an actual present child. So its either draw extra children or none.
Actually, there may be something hacky I could do to try to distinguish them, but I would need a save file for testing first...
Post by: Cheshire Cat on December 18, 2009, 08:12:47 am
ive been running it in a box above a long skinny DF window, and its great being able to sit and watch my dwarves dig out the rooms i have just designated, or run around fighting chasm creatures. having the window slaved to my dwarf fortress view is what has gotten me wanting to use stonesense, i can easily navigate around and look at exactly what i want.
even previously boring things like a dwarf assembling a workshop suddenly becomes very interesting.
so, well done.
Post by: dephelis on December 18, 2009, 08:43:29 am
Forgive me if this has already been asked (not in the mood for a 136 page catchup), but are there any plans to make the window resizable by dragging the window border?
Also, when setting the window size to something along the lines of 1280x1024, most of the bottom portion of the screen is background. The top corner of the viewable area is cut off by the window title bar rather than shifting down to fill the available vertical space.
Post by: Khalan on December 18, 2009, 09:47:01 am
is there a way to set the follow mode offset outside of the program?Adjusting the LIFTSEGMENT entry in the init.txt file works nicely for this purpose, so all's good.
And dephelis, I believe this will fix your issue as well. Try experimenting with the value.
Edit: Also, there is an error in creatures\Wildlife.xml. The following two entries should read:
Quote
<creature gameID="FOX" sheetIndex = 50 />
<creature gameID="TROGLODYTE" sheetIndex = 52 />
instead of:
Quote
<creature gameID="FOX" sheetIndex = 70 />
<creature gameID="TROGLODYTE" sheetIndex = 72 />
Post by: dephelis on December 18, 2009, 11:54:01 am
I had played around with a few of the init.txt settings, but seem to have missed the significance of LIFTSEGMENT :-[
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 18, 2009, 12:26:35 pm
Here is the Stonesense snatched child ghost screen.I beleive this is the same as the issue where magma dunked goblins spawn flaming items on your cage traps.
Started DF paused, so Stonesense is updated in the shot.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Zulban is the dwarf in question. You can't quite see the where the other Stonesense child should be in the DF screen, but he also is no longer in the fort.
It seems to be a result of the code used for capturing a creature, which, as far as I can tell: leaves the creature in place, freezes the creature, and does something hacky to hide the creature untill is is relocated by killing the goblin/opening the cage.
Post by: kaypy on December 18, 2009, 09:40:04 pm
I think Stonesense might have a problem with snatched children.OK, here is what I can do: There are flags for "this tile is occupied" and "this tile is occupied by someone lying down" (I assume theres two because they have different effects on movement and pathfinding). Thus I can at least check there is actually someone there before drawing the creatures.
However, if there's someone else standing on the tile the ghost-child is in, they may still wind up being drawn. I could get more hacky about it, but we'd be getting to a point of diminishing returns, and there has to be some way of getting the information properly that we're missing...
Post by: Jadael on December 18, 2009, 10:35:13 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 18, 2009, 10:35:32 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 18, 2009, 10:38:35 pm
Post by: smirk on December 18, 2009, 10:49:51 pm
Yes, the problem is that we have no way to distinguish a non-present, kidnapped child from an actual present child. So its either draw extra children or none.
This same problem came up in Dwarf Therapist, where kidnapped children were still showing up in the interface. I do believe Chmod eventually found the flag that denotes kidnapped status, if ye want to send him a message.
Post by: kaypy on December 18, 2009, 10:54:33 pm
Is there a way to tell apart smooth and engraved stone in the XMLs yet? And what about stone and block constructed walls? Carved, stone and block fortifications?You can distinguish between three states
natural rough
natural 'detailed' (smoothed or engraved- cant tell the difference)
constructed (can tell material, but not whether block or rough)
I think the block/rough division is based on object lookups, and the smooth/engraved is based on whatever data it uses to store the actual engraving. Both of these are in the too hard basket right now.
Post by: Khalan on December 19, 2009, 05:17:32 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 19, 2009, 05:21:57 am
Post by: kaypy on December 19, 2009, 06:17:38 am
Not sure if it's a known issue or not, but if I remove an area of stockpile, the corresponding stockpile display in Stonesense does not disappear (this is with an outdoor refuse pile).Hmm... must have lost my fix for that at some stage. Try this in the stockpile.xml:
Code: [Select]
<building name="Stockpile" gameID="stockpile">
<if>
<BuildingOccupancy value="2" />
<sprite index = 322 />
</if>
<else>
<empty/>
</else>
</building>
Cant do the same for zones, unfortunately
Post by: Khalan on December 19, 2009, 07:38:15 am
Also changing the sprite index to 166 works nicely for me; this uses the full tile shadow to represent the stockpile which matches better to Mayday's graphics set. Personal choice though.
Edit: Actually, 365 works even better:
(http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u318/Talak_DB/stockpile.png)
Post by: Greiger on December 19, 2009, 12:34:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deon on December 19, 2009, 01:20:59 pm
Post by: Greiger on December 19, 2009, 03:23:22 pm
In middle school I came up with a whole detailed background culture and abilities for them and had them as a playable race in a AD&D campaign I put together. Then I got older and discovered the internet and realized that everybody and their mother have a humanoid dragon variant of some kind put together. The culture is why there is only sprites for sword spear x-bow and club users.
Post by: The Doctor on December 19, 2009, 05:01:32 pm
I like the primitive races mods, because I have hard time with the intricacies of the Dwarfs! D:
Post by: Greiger on December 19, 2009, 07:15:30 pm
Spoiler: Off topic mod discription (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on December 20, 2009, 09:11:17 am
No not really, I always figured there would be a lack of interest. I suppose I could zip everything I have up and stick it on DFFD though.
Why don't you stick it on the Content Repository, that's what it was made for :)
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository
Post by: Greiger on December 20, 2009, 10:09:35 am
Added. I tried my best to get an image in there, but it just kept showing up as a link when I tried. Be much appreciated if somebody who knows what they are doing could fix it.
Post by: jonask84 on December 20, 2009, 12:22:12 pm
Alright everybody, we now have some decent feedback from RC1 and we've fixed a lot of bugs.
The following list contains all the bugs we've found so far:
* Config failure no longer leaves terrain invisible
* Improved config path handling
* Some checks towards preventing nonexistant creatures (eg kidnapees) showing up
* Default vegetation sprites settable
* Some GUI glitches due to the extra z-level loading were fixed
* Stockpiles and Farms are more like their actual shape
* Undead creatures were not working
* Fixed missing terrain configs
* Fixed some glitchy building configs
* Fixed some glitchy creature configs
* Added more config options: zones, stockpiles, follow offsets
* Added fogging to lower z-levels
* Restored debug UI feedback on material types
* Fixed clay floors
* Fixed so z-levels don't go under 1
If there is anything you think we've forgotten, please let us know right now. That way we can fix it before the second release candidate.
Post by: Haladuz on December 20, 2009, 05:41:54 pm
Wishing to somehow contribute, I did these for Tigerman and Leechman. (Haha, Some DF creatures have names that make them sound like Wrestlers from Kinnikuman)
(http://i.imagehost.org/0391/TigermanLeechman2.png) (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0391/TigermanLeechman2)
(http://i.imagehost.org/0238/TigermanLeechman.png) (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0238/TigermanLeechman)
I Hope they are inside specifications.
I want to be helpful, but I'm not sure how to proceed, should I post them here or what?
Post by: Jay on December 20, 2009, 08:23:15 pm
Post by: Beefmo on December 20, 2009, 08:31:37 pm
Currently it doesn't contain the animal men of the underground, but all critters and the elemental men are done from the subterranean.raw (I think).
And although the undead sprites are in the pack too, like jonas just said, they not currently recognised by SS, but hopefully I've got the xml written properly for when they are supported.
I think I'll head on to the mans/evil now just so I can get all the chasm and underground river critters I missed.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 20, 2009, 09:24:53 pm
Post by: Solifuge on December 20, 2009, 09:28:49 pm
Just a heads up that I finished my subterranean animal sprites and theyre on the content repository for anyone interested!
Currently it doesn't contain the animal men of the underground, but all critters and the elemental men are done from the subterranean.raw (I think).
And although the undead sprites are in the pack too, like jonas just said, they not currently recognised by SS, but hopefully I've got the xml written properly for when they are supported.
I think I'll head on to the mans/evil now just so I can get all the chasm and underground river critters I missed.
Holy hell, Beefmo! Those are friggin' gorgeous! And I don't exaggerate!
DL Link (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1698)
Everyone needs to check those out ASAP. The static image doesn't do them justice; those animations are fantastic! The Cave Swallows are my favorites, and fly with completely fluid, natural motions, with the flowing Mud Man my second favorite. I want to see more of these!
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/th_CaveSwallow.gif) (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Fireman.gif) (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Skelegator.gif)
(Cave Swallows, a Fireman, and a Skelegator)
P.S. This totally looks like a Solifugid. You win forever.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/SkelSpider.gif)
Post by: Khalan on December 20, 2009, 10:05:53 pm
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 20, 2009, 11:01:48 pm
LN
Post by: Retro on December 21, 2009, 01:52:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
ed- The current DFMA map (http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-7630-undergrotto) for comparison. Still a work in progress.
Post by: Haspen on December 21, 2009, 02:03:36 pm
It's like Copperblazes, nay, Copperblazes2!
And even better, with graphical representation!
:o
Post by: The Doctor on December 21, 2009, 02:16:41 pm
Because it actually LOOKS like a functioning city.
Post by: Gauphastus on December 21, 2009, 04:59:44 pm
That's some good looking stuff there.
Post by: dyze on December 21, 2009, 05:10:16 pm
Post by: The Doctor on December 21, 2009, 05:30:29 pm
Post by: Retro on December 21, 2009, 06:06:51 pm
SS still looks very Escher though, as shown in some of those screenies.
As in, the different height levels when side by side seem to be the same level? If so, there's a bit of that, yeah. Maybe some kind of very slight effect that darkens area the lower they are from the top visible layer? Though I feel that would cause a lot of slowdown.
The only real qualm I have about Stonesense right now is the placeholder corners. Stuff like the mini glass pyramid would look much nicer without being a bland grey pyramid on four glass posts. But I know that's a temporary thing until the next round of texture work is done, so it's not really an active concern.
if only the statues were facing the right, it'd be perfect. in fact, that could be a feature in SS. shift-click on appropriate objects to change their facing or something..
That'd be neat... To my knowledge, the mouse doesn't interface with SS yet (though I could certainly just not have noticed, I've never tried). There'd also be the issue of real-time viewing and objects facing one way - how would Stonesense retain the direction a statue is facing without the knowledge being stored in DF? Especially considering that statues may be removed at any point.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 21, 2009, 06:28:27 pm
That'd be neat... To my knowledge, the mouse doesn't interface with SS yet (though I could certainly just not have noticed, I've never tried).
Yes, mouse does interface with/affect stonesense: it can be used to pan the minimap view around (the thing in the upper right), and, in debug builds, can move around the debug cursor.
LN
Post by: Hal Nicholas on December 21, 2009, 07:10:23 pm
Post by: Solifuge on December 21, 2009, 09:06:37 pm
Post by: quinnr on December 21, 2009, 09:16:47 pm
Can Stonesense see items/objects yet?Nope....
BTW, is Granite way faster for anybody else? It seems faster for me...
Post by: Haladuz on December 21, 2009, 10:30:05 pm
Love the sprites Solifuge and Beefmo, you guys rule, these shoes suck
Haladuz: Love the leechman but the Tigerman looks too much like Aaaarnold.
Thanks! Yeah, I totally agree Tigerman is no good, so i redid it, But it now has a somewhat confusing appearence, not sure.
(http://i.imagehost.org/0445/TigermanLeechman4.png) (http://i.imagehost.org/view/0445/TigermanLeechman4)
Can anyone tell me if by drawing these sprites I'm being somehow helpful or not?
Post by: The Doctor on December 21, 2009, 10:30:57 pm
Draw it like Tony.
The Tiger.
>.>
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 21, 2009, 10:53:22 pm
Yes, you are being helpful.
LN
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 22, 2009, 12:08:51 am
Post by: Great Cthulhu on December 22, 2009, 03:13:33 am
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/obsidian.png?t=1261447486)Hypnotic. :)
I think straightish lines would work better though. I had to look twice before I realized that there wasn't a pit full of roiling clouds or waves between the magma men.
Something like the top left one in this image maybe?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: BatCountry on December 22, 2009, 04:41:26 am
Something like the top left one in this image maybe?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's bacon!
Post by: Haspen on December 22, 2009, 05:11:34 am
Something like the top left one in this image maybe?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's bacon!
I felt the same.
Post by: Haladuz on December 22, 2009, 05:40:18 am
Soli, I've been meaning to ask... you're not secretly Fool, are you?Yeah, I've also been thinking about that, the Avatar you're using is a pixel art done by Fool for a internet pixel contest.
Post by: Great Cthulhu on December 22, 2009, 05:42:44 am
Something like the top left one in this image maybe?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's bacon!
Goes well with dwarven bread (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarfs_%28Discworld%29#Cuisine), I suppose. ;)
But point taken in that blue or green would be less confusing.
Post by: kaypy on December 22, 2009, 06:04:00 am
The installer for Stonesense Granite RC2 has just been uploaded to googlecode:
http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/stonesense_1_0_RC2.exe (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/stonesense_1_0_RC2.exe)
Beefmo's subterranean sprites didn't quite make it into the base install this time round, but we have the support so all the variations will work if you download it from the Stonesense Content Repository:
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository)
A tarball and update to the OP should follow shortly.
Enjoy!
Post by: kaypy on December 22, 2009, 06:20:23 am
Only a little bit of a slowdown. (Guess the RC2 new feature)SS still looks very Escher though, as shown in some of those screenies.Maybe some kind of very slight effect that darkens area the lower they are from the top visible layer? Though I feel that would cause a lot of slowdown.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 22, 2009, 07:05:00 am
yeah very impressive, and it looks so good with SS! the magma caldera looks badass. if only the statues were facing the right, it'd be perfect. in fact, that could be a feature in SS. shift-click on appropriate objects to change their facing or something..The only suggestion I can think of currently, concerning the facing direction of statues, is that they could perhaps have a preference to face towards floor tiles; or away from wall/ramp tiles?
I'm not sure of the viability of this though, it may require a level of overhead I'm not aware of.
Post by: Khalan on December 22, 2009, 08:29:48 am
The depth fogging looks great!
This is with my settings at 0/0/0/255 for the fog colour and alpha:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Setting it to white (255/255/255/255) also gives a great mist-like effect:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Neonivek on December 22, 2009, 09:10:16 am
Post by: Greiger on December 22, 2009, 10:58:56 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jarathor on December 22, 2009, 11:55:03 am
Great work to everyone who's a part of this.
Post by: Thursday Postal on December 22, 2009, 12:28:12 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 22, 2009, 12:35:36 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on December 22, 2009, 01:28:11 pm
Few more graphics tiles like catapult and ballista and we're pretty much set it appears. :)
Post by: jonask84 on December 22, 2009, 03:00:24 pm
@Retro: Wow man! Wow! Those screenshots are simply gorgeous! I wanna print these and hang over my workstation. They're simply some of the best I've seen so far! Very nice hehe
And we just added Fog to the RC2 (it was supposed to be in RC1, but a bug left it out) so some depth should be possible through that.
Also, on ramps: Ramps are now configurable ;) so if anyone's handy with ye olde ms paint; let's get started on replacing those ugly ass placeholders. (ask kaypy or me about how)
@Hal Nicholas: No, no objects yet. That's on the list for 2.0 ( Slate ).
@Haladuz: hee hee awesome tigerman :D Good work!
@Khalan: Nice use of the fog! maybe the default color should be changed...
@Impaler[WrG]: Sadly no... The shadows are added by shading the entire sprite using the GPU interface. It still does not support alpha channels on the pngs.
@KaelGotDwarves: :D
Post by: Footkerchief on December 22, 2009, 03:08:46 pm
@Impaler[WrG]: Sadly no... The shadows are added by shading the entire sprite using the GPU interface. It still does not support alpha channels on the pngs.
Is the lack of alpha support a performance thing or a just-hasn't-been-done-yet thing?
Post by: jonask84 on December 22, 2009, 03:09:50 pm
Post by: Jay on December 22, 2009, 03:09:53 pm
@Hal Nicholas: No, no objects yet. That's on the list for 2.0 ( Slate ).So it's slated?
*rimshot*
Post by: Footkerchief on December 22, 2009, 03:19:27 pm
It's not sure it can be done/performance thing :p
Hmm... it seems strange that there would be performance problems for a mostly static scene. Well, I could see creature alphas having performance problems, but I don't think anyone cares about those anyway. For terrain alphas you can just cache the "top" terrain after blending the alphas, and then blit the non-alpha creature sprite on top of it, right?
e: went back and tried to reconstruct the previous alpha conversation
@CobaltKobold: we want to switch to alpha and PNG files. but it would require many more library dependencies, not good for people who want to compile.
Whether we can use Alpha Transparency vs. Dithering Transparency depends entirely on the resources required by each. I'm not quite a Competent Programmer myself, so I'll leave that to the Experts to answer... for now, Dither transparency is an easy way to implement it with the current engine, especially with a new release pending. :P
Currently we dont have Alpha Transparency, so Dithering Transparency is the best we have...
Also, Dithering transparency has some nice features for water: since the pixels line up perfectly, you have the effect that something is either behind water or its not. Which is less problematic than each individual block of water having its own alpha effect. (Cause different blocks will line up strangely- I should do a mockup to [a] make it obvious what I'm saying and [b] make sure I know what I'm talking about)
Post mockup revised position statement: Given alpha transparency, doing water in a simple 'draw the water sprite at ~30% alpha' should work fine- edging effects are not really noticeable against the noise of the water textures.
Evertually, we will probably get proper alpha support. Until then, its likely to be an 'every other pixel' job like the water
So, outstanding issues are 1) possible performance issues and 2) more dependencies? Neither seems like that big of an obstacle...
Post by: jonask84 on December 22, 2009, 03:36:57 pm
I'm gonna sit down with it more thoroughly some day soon, but we don't forget the obvious question: What does alpha really add?
Will water look better when it's a series of overlapping semi-transparent cubes?
Will creatures look better? Will terrain?
I think glass would, of course. And maybe some volumetric stuff like mist (once we get that in).
We need mock-ups or something to better tell. And we've just been focusing our efforts elsewhere :)
Alpha support, as I see it, is not a high priority. I simply just don't see the awesome upside of it :)
This is the Allegro manual, for reference:
http://alleg.sourceforge.net/stabledocs/en/allegro.html
Post by: Goinstadi on December 22, 2009, 04:00:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just wanted to share my Philosopher's Tower. It's not finished yet, but it looks very nice with the new fog.
Only thing is that the top two levels are completely made out of clear glass and it doesn't really look like it from here.
Post by: Retro on December 22, 2009, 04:13:22 pm
@Retro: [...]
Thank you, sir. Actually, the main reason I uploaded the screenies was because I noted a while ago that the ones in the first post seem to have broken links now. I haven't seen many people just posting screenshots of their forts lately, so I thought I might try and get some new screens out there. I don't know if you kept the original files for the first post screenies, but if any of mine work for you, by all means feel free to grab them - I imagine any screenshots are better than none. Stonesense is a great utility, and if the only support I can give is shots of it in action, then hey-o.
--incidentally, Goinstadi posted a terrific glass tower while I was typing this out that really demonstrates the new fog effect well, as another possible screen you could use.
Retro, your fort looks like it was practically made for this.
Actually, it was. I had visualizers (I use both this and VF) distinctly in mind when I designed everything, so I suppose if it turns out looking well, it was/is a successful endeavour. I'll be sure to post some some screenshots when I'm done digging out the next area.
I'm gonna sit down with it more thoroughly some day soon, but we don't forget the obvious question: What does alpha really add?
Will water look better when it's a series of overlapping semi-transparent cubes?
Will creatures look better? Will terrain?
I think glass would, of course.
Oh, please. Pleeeease. Glass is easily my favourite thing to build out of. Ah, the joys of translucency.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 22, 2009, 06:07:42 pm
I'm gonna sit down with it more thoroughly some day soon, but we don't forget the obvious question: What does alpha really add?Doesn't that basically apply, for no extra cost, an additional depth-shader? (And, as you point out, the bundles of clouds: mist, dust, magmamist, miasma, smoke...)
Will water look better when it's a series of overlapping semi-transparent cubes?
Also, Dithering transparency has some nice features for water: since the pixels line up perfectly, you have the effect that something is either behind water or its not. Which is less problematic than each individual block of water having its own alpha effect. (Cause different blocks will line up strangely- I should do a mockup to [a] make it obvious what I'm saying and [b] make sure I know what I'm talking about)This is, sort of, a positive effect for water to only have a 'surface' surface, but it breaks as soon as you get any other translucent substance.
Quote from: jonask84
Will creatures look better? Will terrain?Well, riverbottoms will look nicer imo.
I think glass would, of course. And maybe some volumetric stuff like mist (once we get that in).
Quote
We need mock-ups or something to better tell. And we've just been focusing our efforts elsewhere :)Find me an (opaque) 32x32water tile and I'll see how it goes...my search-fu is not turning them up from this thread. I am guessing that the cube-matrix effect that kaypy fears will be worse than I think.
Quote
Alpha support, as I see it, is not a high priority. I simply just don't see the awesome upside of it :)http://images.google.com/images?q=crystal+palace
Let me point out one of the big upsides: With dither-transparency, you are strictly limited to one and only one "translucent" sheet at any point on the screen. With alpha, you are not.
Quote from: Poll
Do you prefer Stonesense as an installer or archive?Where's the 'source' option? I'll wait for the X problem to be fixed.
Post by: jonask84 on December 22, 2009, 06:09:52 pm
So I think Japa deserves some credit here, he's the one who wrote the fog patch.
*Round of applause*
Also, Goinstadi: Yes! Beautiful! I'm gonna be putting these up in the OP if you guys don't mind :)
And lastly: If anyone wants to head over to DF Mode General (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?board=11) and start a Stonesense screenshot-show-and-tell thread, that would be awesome. ( would organize it myself of course, but it kinda seems like touting ones own horn (of course, asking someone to tout it for you it totally kosher ;) ))
Edit:
CobaltKobold
Yeah you're right, glass structures would look amazing...
Quote
Find me an (opaque) 32x32water tilehttp://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn-history/r114/trunk/objects.png
^ an old revision of the objects file.
Quote
Where's the 'source' option?The project is open source, just grab it off google code ;)
Post by: Footkerchief on December 22, 2009, 06:25:50 pm
So I think Japa deserves some credit here, he's the one who wrote the fog patch.
*Round of applause*
Indeed. With all the alpha talk I forgot to mention how great that fog looks. It's not just cosmetic, either -- it provides a much needed depth cue that should help reduce the "Escher effect."
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 22, 2009, 06:38:02 pm
I mean, for the poll :PQuoteWhere's the 'source' option?The project is open source, just grab it off google code ;)
And yes, the depth fog looks pretty nice.
edit2: OK, here's some mocks.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This neighbour-based selection could permit you to "only draw the surface" if you configured the tiles right as well.
The weird-cube-grid effect isn't as bad as expected in the middle, but that's mainly because everything gets to near-opaque reaallly quickly.
edit_N: weird-cube-effect made clearer: 3x3x3, 50% opacity.
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6366/gridbug.png) (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/gridbug.png/)
Post by: kaypy on December 22, 2009, 11:14:02 pm
Gasses would tend to work better because they do behave more volumetrically- so for example the path through the center of a tile of gas would be much less transparent than a path through the corner.
Edit: That said, I seem to recall doing some water mockups using alpha myself that wound up pretty reasonable
Post by: Jadael on December 23, 2009, 02:59:57 am
Each water tile could just check for whether there's water above it? That would screw up waterfalls though... THe algorithm for deciding whether a given tile of water is visible to the 'camera' might be too complex.
Post by: Winterbrass on December 23, 2009, 03:46:34 am
Why not just draw only the surface of the water, but transparent, and let the new fog shader take care of a depth cue? Basically try to achieve the same effect as now but using alpha.Not any more complex than doors and floodgates are now.
Each water tile could just check for whether there's water above it? That would screw up waterfalls though... THe algorithm for deciding whether a given tile of water is visible to the 'camera' might be too complex.
'Simplest' solution that I can think of? Have water tiles check to see if there are water tiles surrounding it, and if so, only display the top of the water tile.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 23, 2009, 03:48:37 am
My offering to stonesense; one (slightly grainy) alpha map base for transparent fog effects in isometric!I mean, for the poll :PQuoteWhere's the 'source' option?The project is open source, just grab it off google code ;)...Now, I discover that my script's method of mockup(copy, paste, anchor) actually doesn't play nice with alpha, as 50%+50% evaluates to 100%, as opposed to 75% like it ought to be... :-/ hmm.Disregard that. It only requires 7 or 8 layers to get to full opacity at 50%.
And yes, the depth fog looks pretty nice.
edit2: OK, here's some mocks.I'm awre that anything less than full water on a waterfall will look stupid, but that's a different issue which can be semi-solved by a ramp-code-like selection (and arting) of the 1-6 watertiles.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This neighbour-based selection could permit you to "only draw the surface" if you configured the tiles right as well.
The weird-cube-grid effect isn't as bad as expected in the middle, but that's mainly because everything gets to near-opaque reaallly quickly.
edit_N: weird-cube-effect made clearer: 3x3x3, 50% opacity.
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6366/gridbug.png) (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/gridbug.png/)
For when and if alpha channels get support
(http://ultraxs.com/image-4AC7_4B31D7D0.jpg)
and as seen in a 3x3 grid
(http://ultraxs.com/image-8E93_4B31D7D0.jpg)
please remove the graininess if possible.
(I did my head in trying to work out an equation to tell me which shades to use to overlap to 50%; failed the equation; and spent quite a while trial and erroring values for a relatively stable fog.)
Intended as miasma, smoke, water fog, steam, magma vapor, etc.
What image host do you guys use? ultraxs seems to have recompressed my images...
Post by: Seuss on December 23, 2009, 03:57:05 am
;)
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 23, 2009, 06:24:22 am
edit2: OK, here's some mocks.Seuss: One of several reasons I don't like the notion.I'm awre that anything less than full water on a waterfall will look stupid, but that's a different issue which can be semi-solved by a ramp-code-like selection (and arting) of the 1-6 watertiles.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This neighbour-based selection could permit you to "only draw the surface" if you configured the tiles right as well.
Anyway, doesn't look half bad with that variable mask: (http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/3517/mockupcustomask.png)
One thing with the alpha-water that I think might need considering is being darker but more transparent. Water occludes, but nowhere near as fast as we're making it do.
Also, ramps. Hellooooo, computation vs performance!Why not just draw only the surface of the water, but transparent, and let the new fog shader take care of a depth cue? Basically try to achieve the same effect as now but using alpha.Not any more complex than doors and floodgates are now.
Each water tile could just check for whether there's water above it? That would screw up waterfalls though... THe algorithm for deciding whether a given tile of water is visible to the 'camera' might be too complex.
'Simplest' solution that I can think of? Have water tiles check to see if there are water tiles surrounding it, and if so, only display the top of the water tile.
Waterfalls aren't going to look nice until you make the lesser tiles adhere and possibly cohere (since the code and art are going to be so similar). Check
It'll be a hell of a lot faster to just render these things than to draw, that's for certain.
Spoiler: Degenerating cases... (click to show/hide)
edit: Can't for the life of me remember (or find) what the "this number is binary" prefix for C++ is, or if it exists. 0b?
Post by: DorfDorfingdorf on December 23, 2009, 06:56:13 am
Spoiler: Degenerating cases... (click to show/hide)
Mother of beards, did you just do water cohesion code for Stonesense? I think I love you. Props from one programmer to another, great way to code that^.
Here's hoping they try to adopt that code. Better yet: it doesn't cause Stonesense's awesome SNES style graphics to slow to a crawl, though that's using a shockingly low level of calculations. Anyway, good job there.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 23, 2009, 07:02:45 am
Japa pointed out on IRC that fixing pancake waterfalls is as easy as using the stream case (a thin-thick vertical stream of water) when the tile below is available (no floor here) and nonfull, which would mean only 6 more tiles needed.
Neither my code nor that fix will make stairstepfalls and rampfalls look nice though. Ramp particularly's when things get ugly (consider the 256(?) ramp cases, and realize that a ramp tile can have from 1-7 water...though 7 water will never need a special-shaped tile, for obvious reasons. It might need a special tile for not drawing surfaces that lead to more water, though.)
(Above code is roughly on a level with the ramps code anyway, so if ramps don't slow SS to a crawl...all you'll need worry about is the DF flow code eating your CPU to exclusion of SS ;) )
New thought: You will probably want to do something similar for mists and vapors- though, in that case, 'cling' using your vapor density, so you are near to the center of the cloud.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 23, 2009, 07:18:23 am
-depth fog; to simulate less light reaching the bottom of deep water. Should be subtle(light scatter).
-water surface; usually a reflection, but in this case a texture like that which is currently used will suffice(difference of refractive indexes).
-and the initial darkening of sub surface materials caused by much of the light being reflected off the surface.(side effect of refraction)
in a perfect world, with no overhead, I would suggest perhaps 25% strength fog cube(I mean the one i posted earlier at one half strength) in a plain blue, in addition to the surface being textured with the current tile with additive blending, with an overall darkening mask of perhaps 50% over everything obscured by water.
I imagine it would look somewhat like this:
(http://ultraxs.com/image-065D_4B3209D6.jpg)
please forgive the compression, it's automatic from the image host.
CobaltKobold, I hope you don't mind me imitating your test zone.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 23, 2009, 07:29:07 am
CobaltKobold, I hope you don't mind me imitating your test zone.All the better to compare. Hang on a moment, putting the clean one.
(http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/8080/mockup0.png) (http://img704.imageshack.us/i/mockup0.png/)
Is hardly mine, I just slapped together a 4x4x1, 4x1x3, 1x3x3 of one of the linked tileset's solids.
That looks pretty good, actually.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 23, 2009, 07:35:26 am
that one there is 50%black
then 25% fog (the one i drew up before was 50%)
then a top layer of 50% water texture set to add(add because of reflectivity, without the darkening then just overlapping would have sufficed.)
Post by: Innominate on December 23, 2009, 08:24:16 am
To be honest I would recommend against manually drawing all possible water cases. If we have a decent underwater effect (such as Dark_Tundra's, which looks pretty spiffy) and we have a water surface image, we can generate the possible images pre-runtime (either packaged or with a provided program) or upon starting Stonesense.
We have 7 water levels possible, but we don't even need to store all seven in memory. We can draw the standard water surface on a slightly different vertical offset for all the levels. We can then use a different image if we want to do the sides or bottom for some reason, but it's probably worthwhile not to bother.
The case with ramps is more difficult, and depends on whether your art for the ramps follows a simple geometric pattern or not. For example, simple pyramid or cone ramps will allow you to calculate where the water intersects the ramp (pixelwise). Then you draw the bottom half of the ramp (all the pixels below (x,f(x)), where f(x) is the intersection), the water surface and then the top half. If you're really game, you can then draw a light blue line to simulate small waves lapping against the ramp.
But this may be too much trouble. I guess it depends on whether your programmers or your artists have more free time over Christmas.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 23, 2009, 08:41:37 am
CobaltKobold: unfortunately there actually is no "binary" prefix. We can do hexadecimal with "0x<num>" and octal with "0<num>", but it isn't actually possible to put in straight binary without further code on your part.This is, frankly, a pain. Could make each direction a bitmask and bitwise-or them together for the cases, which would make it more readable, I suppose.
Quote
To be honest I would recommend against manually drawing all possible water cases. If we have a decent underwater effect (such as Dark_Tundra's, which looks pretty spiffy) and we have a water surface image, we can generate the possible images pre-runtime (either packaged or with a provided program) or upon starting Stonesense.The cases I used are easy enough to draw for the same reason that they're easy to generate- move one of the surfaces a bit, or create one diagonal. (Aside from the falling-stream case, but that's a singular case) And, generating them externally to the program feels more in-line with SS's tech. Mybe I should look o'er at Khazad.
Quote
We have 7 water levels possible, but we don't even need to store all seven in memory. We can draw the standard water surface on a slightly different vertical offset for all the levels. We can then use a different image if we want to do the sides or bottom for some reason, but it's probably worthwhile not to bother.Consider any spilled water, and this kinda goes out the window.
Quote
The case with ramps is more difficult, and depends on whether your art for the ramps follows a simple geometric pattern or not. For example, simple pyramid or cone ramps will allow you to calculate where the water intersects the ramp (pixelwise). Then you draw the bottom half of the ramp (all the pixels below (x,f(x)), where f(x) is the intersection), the water surface and then the top half. If you're really game, you can then draw a light blue line to simulate small waves lapping against the ramp.It sounds good at first, and would be a art-light solution, but water running down ramps will look bad that way.
Post by: Greiger on December 23, 2009, 11:21:48 am
Would it be a simple matter to just find water tiles that logically should be falling and just stick a dark water colored blue fog(that stays the same intensity from top to bottom, unlike the normal fog) every tile underneath til it hits a surface? Perhaps with a little lag on the fog to keep the fog present for a few seconds to give an active waterfall enough time to place another tile of water at the top to keep the effect going.
If done right that could convey "There is a waterfall here" while at the same time allowing folks to see the individual water tiles.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 23, 2009, 03:42:05 pm
Post by: Winterbrass on December 23, 2009, 04:44:19 pm
I imagine it would look somewhat like this:Gorgeous.
-imgsnip-
please forgive the compression, it's automatic from the image host.
CobaltKobold, I hope you don't mind me imitating your test zone.
Post by: Goinstadi on December 23, 2009, 06:00:57 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 24, 2009, 03:59:12 am
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2381/koboldthief.png) (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/koboldthief.png/)(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/207/koboldclaus.png)
Post by: jonask84 on December 24, 2009, 07:30:52 am
Oh, and Merry Christmas!
Post by: Jadael on December 24, 2009, 03:03:19 pm
Put all my stones together into a mod. Unzip to /terrain/ and add JadaelWalls.xml and JadaelFloors.xml to the top of the terrain index file.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still have to do ramps! I'm working on it!
Post by: Winterbrass on December 24, 2009, 03:35:46 pm
EDIT: My only complaint is that obsidian and other materials that use the black appearance are too dark - I routinely embark on entire mountains made of obsidian, so it makes it slightly difficult to comprehend what I'm looking at. The rest of it is positively beautiful.
Showing obsidian:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT2: I turn off the hidden terrain, and I can see exactly what veins and whatnot actually are - for example, I've spotted platinum in a block of olivine. It's like Reveal without actually 'cheating', per se.
Showing materials:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jadael on December 24, 2009, 04:25:33 pm
Post by: Winterbrass on December 24, 2009, 04:50:20 pm
#1 I agree with. I'll just adjust those a bit and update the link. Try re-downloading in about half an hour. #2 was on purpose. Being able to recognize materials by sight? Awesome.Oh, I wasn't complaining about #2 - I was thrilled. It's an amazing step forward. My OCD demands that I know where stuff is, because it would be a pain in my ass to find out that there was a platinum deposit where I wanted to put a workshop.
Post by: tobias on December 24, 2009, 04:59:38 pm
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/jadael_stones.zipIt looks great... until you get a lot of peat in one place.
Put all my stones together into a mod. Unzip to /terrain/ and add JadaelWalls.xml and JadaelFloors.xml to the top of the terrain index file.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still have to do ramps! I'm working on it!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jadael on December 24, 2009, 05:03:10 pm
EDIT: Alright, try re-downloading. Peat is changed.
EDIT: Sneak preview:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: tobias on December 24, 2009, 05:15:33 pm
Hmmm. *tries something*MUCH better.
EDIT: Alright, try re-downloading. Peat is changed.
EDIT: Sneak preview:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thanks! ;D
Post by: ank on December 24, 2009, 05:59:26 pm
however, it seems that brimstone is more gold coloured than Gold...
i think it's important that gold actually looks golden...
Post by: Winterbrass on December 24, 2009, 06:00:58 pm
Post by: gilrad on December 24, 2009, 08:37:05 pm
Also, since edges aren't very distinguishable using your stones, perhaps they could use an outline? I think that if you put the outlines in the right places, they would only show up on edges, and not on every square.
Post by: Retro on December 24, 2009, 10:12:07 pm
Post by: Greiger on December 24, 2009, 10:18:14 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 24, 2009, 11:55:36 pm
EDIT: Sneak preview:
[many many furniture sprites]
The building configuration isnt going to cope well with that, you know. It doesn't understand material subtype names yet*, so those would have to be worked out by hand (and can change with mods). Even once that works, the building config just isn't optimized for that degree of selection so the framerate will most likely start to suffer (although measuring it would be much better than just accepting my speculations).
Of course, having the graphics available means users could add in a handful of material subtypes to match what their fortress actually uses. Say if they have a dining room specifically constructed of obsidian tables and chairs, and use native gold statues as decoration, adding just those materials for that furniture would be cheap and effective.
Edit: * It does now, but only in the SVN
Post by: Freeklace on December 25, 2009, 08:16:41 am
Long time lurker here (since 2D days ::) )
I just wanted to pop in a line to thank you guys for your making this amazing game even better!!! Even my gf is considering DF now thanks to your awesome screenshots! ;D
Any way keep up with the great work.
HAPPY XMAS to you all!!!
Post by: Folly on December 25, 2009, 11:05:05 am
The true-3D renderers are impressive technical feats and very pretty...but 2D isometric is just plain fun to look at and play. Thankyou!
Post by: Trigonous on December 25, 2009, 06:23:21 pm
Post by: kaypy on December 25, 2009, 10:53:54 pm
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/stoneramps.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
Edit: Updated
Post by: Footkerchief on December 25, 2009, 10:56:10 pm
Post by: Retro on December 26, 2009, 12:24:02 am
Some basic rampness
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/stoneramps.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
YES YES FINALLY
Seriously, ramps was the one thing I've still been waiting for.
Post by: Vince on December 26, 2009, 03:54:28 am
Some basic rampness
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/stoneramps.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
Edit: Updated
UristMcVince was extatic lately. He admired legendary ramps lately.
Post by: Semmy on December 26, 2009, 06:10:06 am
Some basic rampness
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/stoneramps.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
Edit: Updated
dammit you made me dirty my giant cave spider silk boXXors
Post by: The Doctor on December 26, 2009, 01:06:36 pm
Wut.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 26, 2009, 01:44:52 pm
Some basic rampness
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/stoneramps.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
Edit: Updated
When can I get this?
Post by: Khalan on December 26, 2009, 01:50:10 pm
When can I get this?Right now ;)
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 26, 2009, 01:53:49 pm
Post by: Khalan on December 26, 2009, 02:04:58 pm
This is the download link:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1717 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1717)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 26, 2009, 02:05:50 pm
Post by: Khalan on December 26, 2009, 02:24:57 pm
Code: [Select]
MaterialWalls.xml
MaterialFloors.xml
UpdatedRamps.xml
Walls.xml
Floors.xml
DefaultWalls.xml
DefaultFloors.xml
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 26, 2009, 02:54:17 pm
Post by: DennyTom on December 26, 2009, 04:18:06 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 26, 2009, 04:36:58 pm
Post by: Khalan on December 26, 2009, 05:20:23 pm
The readme does say to put it at the top of the file...Ah, thanks. I went by the instructions on the Content Repository:
Quote
Extract files into Stonesense/terrain and add UpdatedRamps.xml to the /terrain/index.txt
I've edited the wiki entry to add the proper info.
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 08:12:05 am
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/iceandglass.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
Edit: The wall/floor dropins in 1.2 have the wrong obsidian sprite. Fixed in 1.3
Post by: Khalan on December 27, 2009, 08:23:30 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 08:35:44 am
Glass and Ice
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/iceandglass.png) (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Additional_Ramps)
Edit: The wall/floor dropins in 1.2 have the wrong obsidian sprite. Will fix in 1.3
Can you visually differentiate between crystal glass and clear glass?
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 08:43:47 am
Can you visually differentiate between crystal glass and clear glass?In real life or DF? 8-)
I have no idea how I would draw crystal as distinct from clear, and its a lower priority given that as yet you cant distinguish wood from rock. You could go through and up the brightness I suppose...
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 08:48:25 am
Overall I love what you've done so far.
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 10:16:33 am
This one could probably use more work- thinner boards on the slopes maybe?
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on December 27, 2009, 10:20:30 am
Hmmm. *tries something*My only complaint is that "Gold" doesn't look very shinny :(
EDIT: Alright, try re-downloading. Peat is changed.
EDIT: Sneak preview:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 10:22:24 am
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 10:27:05 am
My only complaint is that "Gold" doesn't look very shinny :(
Well its gold ore rather than metallic gold...
Are smoothed and unsmoothed floors supposed to look the same?We should have different sprites for
(a) Rough natural stone
(b) Detailed natural stone (ie smoothed or engraved, we cant tell them apart)
and
(c) Constructed stone (we cant tell blocks from rough)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 10:31:14 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 10:42:29 am
(http://imgur.com/UXeNI.jpg) (http://imgur.com/UXeNI.jpg)
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 10:50:13 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 10:59:05 am
Edit: Yep without his pack the smoothed floors do look different, but all stone looks the same so bleh. I like to have different-colored stone because I tend to do murals in floor tiles, or interesting designs.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 27, 2009, 11:10:57 am
I hope you wont be insulted if I post this up here; made to match the default smooth tiles:
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/SmoothedRamps.png)
Post by: Jadael on December 27, 2009, 04:40:44 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 04:47:39 pm
Also seems some of the colors are a bit off, as alunite is a light brown or yellowish color?
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 05:04:02 pm
Are you using an automated system to generate these ramps?I have a template in the SVN which gives me
(a) some guides to use stretch tools to get a texture into the right shape
(b) some stencils to chop out the bits and pieces when I want to paste them onto the basic ramp blanks (the more complex ramps are generally done by pasting one ramp over another)
Quote
I hope you wont be insulted if I post this up here; made to match the default smooth tiles:Thankyou! I wasn't particularly happy with the constructed ramps I had, but hadn't yet gotten around to trying again. Now I dont have to 8-)
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/SmoothedRamps.png)
edit: OK, these ramps are now in the content pack
Post by: Winterbrass on December 27, 2009, 05:19:49 pm
That's unfortunate. Do you have any plans to make finished stone look a bit more finished? Would be nice if they looked like tiles or at least a bit smoother.Yeah, that's what I was asking - it would be nice if they were patterned like the screenshot that you posted.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jadael on December 27, 2009, 05:21:21 pm
That's unfortunate. Do you have any plans to make finished stone look a bit more finished? Would be nice if they looked like tiles or at least a bit smoother.
Also seems some of the colors are a bit off, as alunite is a light brown or yellowish color?
The smooth floors are already using just a flat shaded cube, they can't go smoother without just blurring them. I can make the rough floors rougher though:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This has just the tops of walls done, it will take me longer to do floors.
As for alunite. (http://www.mineralatlas.com/mineral%20photos/A/alunite2209a.jpg)
Lots of stones in DF are colored very strangely compared to their real life counterparts. Kaolinite for example is bright red in DF, even though it's a type of limestone and pale white. My main goal with this pack was for boring, gray stones to look boring and gray, while the more interesting things like malachite, bauxite, and orpiment can stand out and be as unique as they are in real life.
Post by: Winterbrass on December 27, 2009, 05:28:48 pm
The rough rock looking rougher also provides starker contrast, but I was personally hoping for the smoothed stone to look more refined.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2009, 05:31:55 pm
Post by: Jadael on December 27, 2009, 05:43:31 pm
Post by: dyze on December 27, 2009, 06:24:04 pm
Well, I can switch the sheet around so that smooth floors use the 'engraved floor' sprite I made. And then eventually when Stonesense can tell between smoothed and engraved, remake the sprites. It'll still take a while, because the floors use a non-square grid which Photoshop can't do :\
well imo, with tiles this small you really cant use filters or effects to get a decent result. pixeling is really the only way to go.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 27, 2009, 06:38:31 pm
Well, I can switch the sheet around so that smooth floors use the 'engraved floor' sprite I made. And then eventually when Stonesense can tell between smoothed and engraved, remake the sprites. It'll still take a while, because the floors use a non-square grid which Photoshop can't do :\...? In which way do you need the non-square grid? Oh, right, the thickfloors.
Pad to square, strip out when you're not working on it?
Post by: dyze on December 27, 2009, 07:31:00 pm
We should have different sprites for
(a) Rough natural stone
(b) Detailed natural stone (ie smoothed or engraved, we cant tell them apart)
and
(c) Constructed stone (we cant tell blocks from rough)
would it not be more effective to use separate sprites for engravings and overlay them onto the stone sprites?
we want a good variety of engravings, no? soo many hours of work otherwise, doing different engravings on every single rock type..
Post by: kaypy on December 27, 2009, 07:39:41 pm
We have sprites for engravings, but(b) Detailed natural stone (ie smoothed or engraved, we cant tell them apart)would it not be more effective to use separate sprites for engravings and overlay them onto the stone sprites?
we want a good variety of engravings, no? soo many hours of work otherwise, doing different engravings on every single rock type..
we cant tell them apart
Post by: DennyTom on December 28, 2009, 04:01:55 am
We have sprites for engravings, but(b) Detailed natural stone (ie smoothed or engraved, we cant tell them apart)would it not be more effective to use separate sprites for engravings and overlay them onto the stone sprites?
we want a good variety of engravings, no? soo many hours of work otherwise, doing different engravings on every single rock type..we cant tell them apart
This really bothers my mind - why? The game must tell them apart somehow. When running, there simply must be some record in RAM and the information must be stored in a save file.
Anyway, I would also recommend using simple sprite for smoothed walls/floors. Stone tiles for floors and simple engraved border for walls for example.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2009, 04:04:23 am
This really bothers my mind - why? The game must tell them apart somehow. When running, there simply must be some record in RAM and the information must be stored in a save file.
Oh I'm sure it does. They don't yet know where that information is. If you think it's so easy, why don't you sort through the *millions* of bits the game records to memory and figure it out somehow.
Post by: Jadael on December 28, 2009, 04:29:42 am
Post by: jonask84 on December 28, 2009, 06:02:04 am
Post by: DennyTom on December 28, 2009, 09:47:20 am
This really bothers my mind - why? The game must tell them apart somehow. When running, there simply must be some record in RAM and the information must be stored in a save file.
Oh I'm sure it does. They don't yet know where that information is. If you think it's so easy, why don't you sort through the *millions* of bits the game records to memory and figure it out somehow.
If I made it sound like easy feat, then I appologize. I did not know that it has not been done yet, it appeared to me, that some readers say it is impossible. Damn my poor language skills.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 28, 2009, 10:03:57 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 28, 2009, 10:17:51 am
an "artwork/engravings vector" somewhere, and act somewhat as though it were an object?
Let's see, an art has a subject which may be an image(double crescent), a (generic) creature/object(cheeses anyone?), a histfig+event, or a living dwarf+preference/aversion...
Not entirely sure where the hidden fun engravings fall, though it feels like the last two, with fake hist-events.
with another special case or two for the symbols of your civ,though those are the former two, and might just be a special case of choice/display rather than storage.
Post by: LordZorintrhox on December 28, 2009, 01:28:02 pm
I mean, I was following the development of Stonesense closely, but I underestimated how easy it is to setup and how satisfying it is to see my fort in this format.
Wow.
Post by: kingpocky on December 29, 2009, 02:24:25 am
Is there any way that some of the data could be found more easily if the goal was only to produce a snapshot instead of a constantly updating picture? I usually only use Stonesense for looking at finished products, so I'd be glad to sacrifice watching the movement of creatures for a tad bit more detail somewhere else.
Post by: kaypy on December 29, 2009, 03:10:01 am
Is there any way that some of the data could be found more easily if the goal was only to produce a snapshot instead of a constantly updating picture?
Yeah, theres a fair amount of detail sacrificed in the name of speed. In a static shot you could afford a lot more computation and just plain data. Simplest example- objects are 'too hard' because reading the data would lock up worse than when you look at stone in the stocks menu. (Compare 'reading one object type within the game' vs 'reading all of the objects through hacked memory access')
However, there is also a flip side to this- any detail would also need an equivalent amount of configuration. We are just now getting to the point where we have ramps that aren't plain grey blocks, so theres an awful lot still to be done on the capabilities we have.
Removing realtime in order to add new capabilities wouldn't necessarily cause content to be added any faster. And for many things, we may be able to get decent results with more research (objects again as an example: theres gotta be a better way to get at them, because DF surely doesn't dredge through the entire list for every frame update)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 29, 2009, 03:13:20 am
I have little to no programming experience so forgive me if I am mistaken.
Post by: Khalan on December 29, 2009, 04:42:35 am
Would it be possible as a start for there to be an optional single default sprite for objects? That way it only has to check if any object exists at all in that tile, then display the default sprite - something like a small crate or boulder. Or is that just as hard?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 29, 2009, 08:10:30 am
Post by: jonask84 on December 29, 2009, 08:12:03 am
I'm looking at objects right now. there is a pattern to the chaos, we just have to find it...
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on December 29, 2009, 08:27:57 am
On a related note - I got utterly confused poking around the Cheat Engine without directions. Can't even get a lead on anything of interest.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 29, 2009, 08:32:06 am
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/well.png)
I dont know how to put it in though, I'm far too tired to be working out "if"s, "else"s, and "which part of the universe will collapse if I pull this lever?"s.
Post by: jonask84 on December 29, 2009, 08:53:13 am
Alternate well:
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/well.png)
I dont know how to put it in though, I'm far too tired to be working out "if"s, "else"s, and "which part of the universe will collapse if I pull this lever?"s.
That looks awesome :) You should put it in the Content Repository (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository), so other people can try it out easily.
Anyway, here's how you configure it:
<building name="Well" gameID="well" file="YOURFILENAME.png">
<sprite index = POSSITIONINFILE />
</building>
just make an xml with that in it :)
I've been meaning to make a tutorial on how to make buildings...
@Sean Mirrsen: Yeah I'm not too stable with that memory peaking myself. I'm glad I just have to interface dfHack ;)
Edit: it might also help read this: http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Sprites
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 29, 2009, 09:55:52 am
Post by: Khalan on December 29, 2009, 09:58:43 am
Just fort the record, that would be dead simple. Two lines of code. But like forsaken said, it wouldn't give you much...If you could detect if there is an object and it is in a stockpile tile, then display a crate - I like displaying the stockpiles, so this would come in useful for showing how full a stockpile is. As an option of course.
I'm looking at objects right now. there is a pattern to the chaos, we just have to find it...
Post by: kaypy on December 29, 2009, 06:34:25 pm
Would it be possible as a start for there to be an optional single default sprite for objects?It's certainly doable- I had it working like that in one of the experimental branches, way back. Never made it to the release versions though, because it didnt seem to add much.
(There is a separate 'there is an object in this tile' flag that is easy to detect, as opposed to the actual object data itself, so its pretty simple. If we find some way to look up an object by location, rather than searching through the object vector, then most of the problems with objects would similarly vanish)
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 29, 2009, 08:26:01 pm
I mean, DF has the two flags for creature occupancy- we don't display that by searching the creature vector, do we? (How's SS deal with multiple creatures in a tile anyway?)
Post by: jonask84 on December 29, 2009, 08:52:21 pm
It deals with it the way DF deals with it: display one of them
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 29, 2009, 09:12:45 pm
Post by: Hal Nicholas on December 29, 2009, 09:23:16 pm
Post by: Deon on December 29, 2009, 09:28:03 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 29, 2009, 09:55:11 pm
Post by: Jay on December 30, 2009, 01:11:13 am
Or something.
Considering that this doesn't even try to send anything back to DF, I don't see the maliciousness in it in that view.
It's always worth asking..
Post by: Retro on December 30, 2009, 01:35:17 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 30, 2009, 01:38:00 am
He just doesn't want them to replace his own and thus steal donations.My understanding is that he doesn't want people who feel they cannot play without the 3rd party interfaces, to put pressure on him to restrict his changes on dwarf fortress in the interest of compatability.
Or something.
Considering that this doesn't even try to send anything back to DF, I don't see the maliciousness in it in that view.
It's always worth asking..
Also, the merchant caravans are coming through stonesense as "?"s, any way to remedy that currently?
Post by: kaypy on December 30, 2009, 03:21:52 am
Also, the merchant caravans are coming through stonesense as "?"s, any way to remedy that currently?You could make a sprite for them, but it would only display their center tile, which is why it hasnt been dealt with yet.
Post by: carriontrooper on December 30, 2009, 03:34:43 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 30, 2009, 04:10:25 am
Hey, could Stonesense make an exceptionary sprite dimension? I figured, if in DF wagons are the only multi-tile 'creature', and since only the center tile of the wagon is shown, why not make a big picture for the wagon? It'll be the only non-24x32 sprite.It will likely be overlapped by the foreground floortiles, as nearer tiles are rendered over further tiles.
Post by: kaypy on December 30, 2009, 05:28:09 am
I have been thinking about is something similar, but more compatible with the rendering system: along the lines of 'if this is a wagon, then add a fake-wagoncreature to the 8 adjacent tiles'Hey, could Stonesense make an exceptionary sprite dimension? ... why not make a big picture for the wagon?It will likely be overlapped by the foreground floortiles, as nearer tiles are rendered over further tiles.
Post by: carriontrooper on December 30, 2009, 05:36:24 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 30, 2009, 07:40:52 am
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/error.png)
The square my titan is occupying seems to be resistant to redraw, the square was black when I loaded stonesense, now since moving the view, the image that occupied that section of the screen failed to move while the rest of the scene moved around it...
It was fine when it was just a named "?".
Post by: jonask84 on December 30, 2009, 07:47:07 am
Perhaps someone can shed some light on what I've done wrong...
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/error.png)
The square my titan is occupying seems to be resistant to redraw, the square was black when I loaded stonesense, now since moving the view, the image that occupied that section of the screen failed to move while the rest of the scene moved around it...
It was fine when it was just a named "?".
I've never seen that happen before, what a strange error :p
Could you post the new creature XML you wrote to add the titan (which looks really good btw!)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 30, 2009, 08:12:57 am
Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<creatures>
<creature gameID="TITAN" file="megabeasts.png" >
<variant special="Normal" sheetIndex =0/>
<variant special="Skeleton" sheetIndex =0/>
<variant special="Zombie" sheetIndex =0/>
</creature>
</creatures>
I actually used Deon's cyclops as a start(although I redrew most of it by the end).
Here's an ettin:
(http://i45.tinypic.com/2w2eeqx.png)
P.S. And a based on the same body cyclops (m, f):
(http://i50.tinypic.com/hte5p1.png) (http://i47.tinypic.com/3spef.png)
Post by: Belal on December 30, 2009, 11:53:44 am
DF does loop through the entire item vector at least once every frame, although it clearly does not load the full item information for each item every frame.
An easy test to see that this is true is put a breakpoint at any pointer on the item vector located at offset 0x015BDF68, they will all be triggered each frame.
Our problem is the current memory reading methods are slow, however once we have the shared memory DFHack working on both windows and linux we should have much better read speed.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 30, 2009, 02:28:41 pm
Post by: Elvisman2001 on December 30, 2009, 03:27:53 pm
I run DF and get to the game play screens. Then i run Stonesense. After hitting 'F9', it tells me it cannot find a DF process. . . any ideas or. . . ?
Looks like a magnifigo program. wish i could get it to work.
Post by: Deon on December 30, 2009, 04:18:21 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 30, 2009, 05:45:06 pm
Quote
DF does loop through the entire item vector at least once every frame, although it clearly does not load the full item information for each item every frame.
Wow why am I not surprised ::) This explains why having several thousand stone present in a fortress totally kills the frame rate, theirs an update on every single inanimate piece of stone every turn, probably every tree and shrub too. A lot of the slow down that people assume is from pathfinding might actually be from items. A sensible solution would have been to put inanimate objects on a separate vector and not loop over them every constantly as they can only be modified by some outside action. Other objects that might be subject to self-directed decay or growth could be on separate lists that get update periodically like once a day. Only creatures and other constantly active objects need to be looped over every single frame. And that's just game logic, rendering shouldn't be checking anything outside the viewing frame ever.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 30, 2009, 05:56:12 pm
A lot of the slow down that people assume is from pathfinding might actually be from items.
Well, that's been known for a while. (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43010.0) But yeah, it's alarming that it's doing that much useless work, and separate lists are a must.
Post by: kaypy on December 30, 2009, 06:37:05 pm
Perhaps someone can shed some light on what I've done wrong...Yep, that looks like a problem with alpha. Make sure you are using a magenta background.
DF does loop through the entire item vector at least once every frame, although it clearly does not load the full item information for each item every frame.Oww. So much for a better way to do it...
I read several pages trying to find an answer. . . but the thread is rather thick. Anyway, i am running windows 7 64 bit.I think the 64-bit-ness will be altering the memory layout, so it no longer looks like DF to the access library. Might be worth looking to see if theres anything about it over on the DFHack thread.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 30, 2009, 07:38:20 pm
Quote
Well, that's been known for a while. But yeah, it's alarming that it's doing that much useless work, and separate lists are a must.
I Don't think its very widely known, I hear much more blame given to Pathfinding probably because people very easily notice Pathing induced 'lag spikes' when Idle dwarves all rush out of the fortress or an army is invading while item induced slowdown increases more gradually and doesn't cause spikes.
Post by: Khalan on December 30, 2009, 09:04:59 pm
I read several pages trying to find an answer. . . but the thread is rather thick. Anyway, i am running windows 7 64 bit.No problems here running Windows 7 64-bit and Stonesense.
I run DF and get to the game play screens. Then i run Stonesense. After hitting 'F9', it tells me it cannot find a DF process. . . any ideas or. . . ?
If you have Stonesense or DF installed in C:\Program Files(x86), that may be why it's not working as this area is protected by the OS. Try installing in a different folder.
If that is the way Stonesense will also need to do it, maybe it would be possible to set the object update to only run every x seconds independent of the auto reload rate to avoid too much performance loss if necessary?DF does loop through the entire item vector at least once every frame, although it clearly does not load the full item information for each item every frame.Oww. So much for a better way to do it...
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 30, 2009, 09:16:27 pm
Dark_Tundra: Alpha channel or magenta for transparency?It's magenta, I was under the impression that stonesense does not support alphas.
I read several pages trying to find an answer. . . but the thread is rather thick. Anyway, i am running windows 7 64 bit.I had that problem, try ticking "run as administrator" on the shortcut/executable.
I run DF and get to the game play screens. Then i run Stonesense. After hitting 'F9', it tells me it cannot find a DF process. . . any ideas or. . . ?
Looks like a magnifigo program. wish i could get it to work.
Post by: Jay on December 30, 2009, 09:59:41 pm
I think the 64-bit-ness will be altering the memory layout, so it no longer looks like DF to the access library. Might be worth looking to see if theres anything about it over on the DFHack thread.Absolutely not. It changes the way it addresses the memory. Besides...
32-bit compatibility mode is (nearly) flawless.
It works fine for me.
The problem is more likely to be UAC.
Run Stonesense as an administrator.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on December 30, 2009, 10:52:47 pm
QuoteWell, that's been known for a while. But yeah, it's alarming that it's doing that much useless work, and separate lists are a must.
I Don't think its very widely known, I hear much more blame given to Pathfinding probably because people very easily notice Pathing induced 'lag spikes' when Idle dwarves all rush out of the fortress or an army is invading while item induced slowdown increases more gradually and doesn't cause spikes.
This is a bit offtopic, but a dfhack tool to auto-purge useless stone would be awesome for quickly nuking lag... but we can't yet determine stone types from a pile i don't think... Once thats done we could make it insta-nuke all the useless rocks.
Or maybe transmute them into something useful like bauxite...
LN
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 30, 2009, 11:20:16 pm
On a related note I was just having a brainstorm on how to best implement the reduced updating I was speculating on earlier. I had at first said theirs should be separate lists for inanimate and infrequently updated objects. But on further though this could cause clump all the updates for the list together resulting in a lag spike, also its not very flexible, you'd need to re-write it with a new list for each type of item. I'm thinking some system which dynamically puts items into buckets based on a 'cooldown' time they report back when they update. Each cycle the bucket counter gets decremented until it reaches zero then all the items update and the bucket counter is reset and if necessary some items could be moved to different buckets (say if an object switches between a frequent/infrequent updating state). Thoughts??
Post by: kaypy on December 30, 2009, 11:37:28 pm
I'm thinking some system which dynamically puts items into buckets based on a 'cooldown' time they report back when they update. Each cycle the bucket counter gets decremented until it reaches zero then all the items update and the bucket counter is reset and if necessary some items could be moved to different buckets (say if an object switches between a frequent/infrequent updating state). Thoughts??At least initially, I would be thinking something pretty simple: Have a configurable option for 'number of items to update each frame', and store how far through the item vector we have scanned. Keep going each frame until we reach the end, and loop back to the start.
It depends a bit on how DF handles its items though: does each item get a fixed point in the vector? What happens when an item is destroyed?
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 31, 2009, 12:00:38 am
Post by: kaypy on December 31, 2009, 12:27:46 am
Updating a limited number of items would just make the game run (as in game speed not the FPS) slow as it take multiple draw frames to get through the game logic loop once, you'd see a high FPS but that would no longer be an accurate reflection of the game speed.DF would keep running at its normal speed. Stonesense would run at its normal speed. A subset of the items would be updated each Stonesense frame.
Post by: Retro on December 31, 2009, 12:38:00 am
This is a bit offtopic, but a dfhack tool to auto-purge useless stone would be awesome for quickly nuking lag... but we can't yet determine stone types from a pile i don't think... Once thats done we could make it insta-nuke all the useless rocks.
Or maybe transmute them into something useful like bauxite...
If you like, you can set stone types you want removed to have a boiling point of about 10,000 urists, slightly under room temperature. Next time you load the game, all that stone will boil away to nothing. The only downside is that objects built from said stone will also boil away, so if you're planning on doing this, don't build out of whatever stone you want to waste.
(I'm just as equally off-topic, sorry)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on December 31, 2009, 12:38:37 am
Post by: Khalan on December 31, 2009, 03:15:45 am
I've only done basic programming and I've got no idea how DF works, so I may be way off, but wouldn't it make more sense for object updating to be tied to actions instead of the object itself?
IE. No object gets checked unless an interaction occurs to change the state or position of that object.
Examples in plain language:
Eg. if carpenter chops tree then update object: remove object.
Eg. if tile falls and object exists on tile then update object position: -x z-levels.
Eg. if dwarf picks up object or if dwarf is carrying object then update object: position = dwarf's position.
Of course the above cases already happen in DF, but there doesn't seem to be a need to check objects continuously unless something happens to it or if DF needs to check for the existence of an object (for stock levels or available building stone etc).
Other objects that change over time need only be updated every so often as Impaler[WrG] suggested, such as grass tiles becoming dirt or trees changing colour with the seasons etc.
Like I said I've only done basic programming (literally DarkBasic Pro), so I'm probably better off leaving thoughts to the pros :)
Post by: Belal on December 31, 2009, 08:33:15 am
This is a bit offtopic, but a dfhack tool to auto-purge useless stone would be awesome for quickly nuking lag... but we can't yet determine stone types from a pile i don't think...
this should actually be pretty simple if all you have to do is change the temperature of the stone to get it to boil off. We can determine stone material types already, that is no problem. I will see if I can get something working.
Post by: Elvisman2001 on December 31, 2009, 09:15:35 am
No problems here running Windows 7 64-bit and Stonesense.
If you have Stonesense or DF installed in C:\Program Files(x86), that may be why it's not working as this area is protected by the OS. Try installing in a different folder.
Well. . . so far i have tried:
turning off UAC
turning on windows XP compatibility mode
I don't have either of them installed in C:\Program Files(x86), they are both located in a downloads folder under my username at the moment.
So anyway, i have the latest DF with no tilesets or anything. Windows 7 64 bit. I7 920 Processor. I run DF and load up my save game (with no progress, I havent even issued any commands). I then run Stonesense, hit 'F9' and it just tells me it can't find DF process.
Any more ideas?
Very frustrating.
This is the correct way to run Stonesense right?
Post by: Elvisman2001 on December 31, 2009, 09:21:17 am
Post by: Khalan on December 31, 2009, 09:35:09 am
Only other thing I can think of is a firewall or antivirus preventing access to the DF process. You could try temporarily disabling one or both of them to see if that's it; you may want to disconnect from the internet to be safe while doing this. If this works you could add the programs to the exceptions list.
Also not sure if the username directory is protected by Windows or not.
I can't think of anything else; I hope someone else will be able to help you as this is a great program.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 31, 2009, 09:55:26 am
I tick "run as administrator" (under compatability mode, at the bottom of the window) on both stonesense.exe and dwarfort.exe, that's what i did to get it to run on windows7.No problems here running Windows 7 64-bit and Stonesense.
If you have Stonesense or DF installed in C:\Program Files(x86), that may be why it's not working as this area is protected by the OS. Try installing in a different folder.
Well. . . so far i have tried:
turning off UAC
turning on windows XP compatibility mode
I don't have either of them installed in C:\Program Files(x86), they are both located in a downloads folder under my username at the moment.
So anyway, i have the latest DF with no tilesets or anything. Windows 7 64 bit. I7 920 Processor. I run DF and load up my save game (with no progress, I havent even issued any commands). I then run Stonesense, hit 'F9' and it just tells me it can't find DF process.
Any more ideas?
Very frustrating.
This is the correct way to run Stonesense right?
Post by: Greiger on December 31, 2009, 10:55:53 am
Of course I also remember Toady mentioning that he taught items to know when nothing is going to happen to them any time soon as well, but I can assume stuff like seeds and food is getting checked most of the time.
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2009, 11:24:26 am
wordsLeave it to Toady to code the items to tell the creatures when to use them...
Post by: Elvisman2001 on December 31, 2009, 11:28:50 am
I give up.
I tried turning off firewall (only using built in Windows firewall), I tried turning off UAC, tried setting both DF and Stonesense to Admin and compatibility modes, trued turning off anti virus (Nod32), tried moving both folders to a different drive. . . nothing works. Stonesense just can't find the DF process for whatever reason on my machine.
Post by: Jay on December 31, 2009, 11:29:24 am
"The latest" is a misnomer.
That could refer to 40d (the latest official version) or 40d16.
Post by: Khalan on December 31, 2009, 11:48:07 am
Also try another utility such as Visual Fortress or Khazad to see if they can access DF: http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Utilities
Post by: Elvisman2001 on December 31, 2009, 12:07:36 pm
Hmm.. What version of DF are you even using?
"The latest" is a misnomer.
That could refer to 40d (the latest official version) or 40d16.
0.28.181.40c (downloaded from the Bay12 site here)
Post by: Elvisman2001 on December 31, 2009, 12:08:24 pm
As jaybud4 is suggesting, you could try a different version of DF... try Mike Mayday's DFG, it's the one I'm using so it works - http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.php.
Also try another utility such as Visual Fortress or Khazad to see if they can access DF: http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Utilities
Ah HA! It was my version of DF.
Thanks so much guys. Works now.
really love that Mike Mayday DF. Double thanks for that link.
Post by: CobaltKobold on December 31, 2009, 02:06:48 pm
Regarding objects in DF itself:As mentioned, jobs go from items to dwarfs, and besides- you must know where they are to display them, no?
I've only done basic programming and I've got no idea how DF works, so I may be way off, but wouldn't it make more sense for object updating to be tied to actions instead of the object itself?
Post by: Beefmo on January 02, 2010, 03:27:24 pm
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Creatures
Post by: Elvang on January 02, 2010, 04:39:29 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 02, 2010, 04:45:00 pm
Post by: Rose on January 03, 2010, 03:38:36 am
I've been wanting that feature as well.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on January 03, 2010, 08:01:49 am
On another topic, is there currently any way to change the color of the lines drawn on far cliff edges? 0x353535 would suit my needs better as It doen't work so well as it is as colours approach that of the line.
Post by: LegoLord on January 03, 2010, 09:46:59 am
Or even a feature to export a huge image of the entire map, current z-level or multiple, would be welcome. It would be large, but you could crop to taste.You mean like the Export Local Map feature?
Would be awesome if something similar to the DFMA could be rigged up.
Post by: Mike Mayday on January 03, 2010, 01:44:36 pm
http://opengameart.org/content/isometric-64x64-outside-tileset
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/49116.htm?msg=thx#
Post by: Jay on January 03, 2010, 02:06:14 pm
Hey guys, check this out.That is amazing.
http://opengameart.org/content/isometric-64x64-outside-tileset
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/49116.htm?msg=thx#
Though I think that would reduce our viewing area significantly, it'd be so, so worth it.
I think he's referring to something more like this:Or even a feature to export a huge image of the entire map, current z-level or multiple, would be welcome. It would be large, but you could crop to taste.You mean like the Export Local Map feature?
(http://6.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kv7xb33MTL1qzd3eyo1_500.png)
That map/image was made with Minecraft, by the way.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 03, 2010, 03:31:03 pm
Post by: Jay on January 03, 2010, 03:47:17 pm
And an option to autosave that image at regular intervals.
Time lapse isometrics are awesome.
Minecraft again:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5haSWXZ0aI
Post by: DennyTom on January 03, 2010, 05:09:41 pm
Hey guys, check this out.
http://opengameart.org/content/isometric-64x64-outside-tileset
http://pixeljoint.com/pixelart/49116.htm?msg=thx#
OH MY GOD :o
I love the rough stone and the fact everything is not symetric - looks so good.
Post by: LegoLord on January 03, 2010, 09:17:40 pm
Yes that's exactly what I mean.That looks like a world map.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 03, 2010, 09:25:38 pm
Looks like a local map to me.Yes that's exactly what I mean.That looks like a world map.
Post by: Rose on January 04, 2010, 02:01:17 am
then this one -> http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png (http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png)
;D
Post by: JanusTwoface on January 04, 2010, 02:04:19 am
Click this link -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w)
then this one -> http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png (http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png)
;D
*reattaches jawbone to face*
That is absolutely beautiful...
Out of curiosity, how long does it take to generate that?
Post by: Rose on January 04, 2010, 02:07:26 am
it saves the time taken in a log file.
Post by: Haspen on January 04, 2010, 04:59:07 am
Click this link -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w)
then this one -> http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png (http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png)
;D
Oh gods, with that music it's like I'm looking on some magma-fueled rocket production centre :o
Awesomely awesome, Japa.
But really, what is hidden in those buildings? Obsidian farm? :P
Post by: Rose on January 04, 2010, 05:05:27 am
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4062-reinhammers
and here's a mountain:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Keita on January 04, 2010, 05:19:03 am
it's this fort:
http://mkv25.net/dfma/map-4062-reinhammers
and here's a mountain:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Thats impresive! (edit english as you see fit) Also I've yet to get a fort past hamlet. I'm putting strict rules on myself of always fighting orks headon. We're Dwarfs! We do not hide in our moantain homes and cower like Elves!
Post by: Mike Mayday on January 04, 2010, 05:59:40 am
Looks like a local map to me.Yes that's exactly what I mean.That looks like a world map.
Yeah, it's a local map... for a different game! >_<
Post by: Jay on January 04, 2010, 03:14:45 pm
12172ms12 seconds.
it saves the time taken in a log file.
That's not bad at all.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 04, 2010, 03:24:48 pm
Post by: Jay on January 04, 2010, 04:50:55 pm
I tried out minecraft. I don't see the draw...Perhaps our thread on it will help that? (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35804.0)
Or are you talking about the isometric feature?
That's only available in the In Development (http://www.minecraft.net/indev) version, which itself is only available for those who purchased the game.
Post by: jonask84 on January 05, 2010, 05:24:49 am
Another heads up, that I've chucked my creature pack for the "large_ocean" raw up on the content repository. Still missing a few sharks and some other sea critters, but since I'm probably going to be busy for the next week I thought I'd chuck it up for any aquarium building dwarfies :P
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository#Creatures
Zombie Walrus! Enough said 8)
Edit: BTW, I am in the process of moving into a new apartment, and it's taking a while to get the new net set up. Sorry about the absence
Post by: Rose on January 05, 2010, 10:05:03 am
Hey jonask, you mind taking a look at the code I put in for the large screenshots? I can't do a merge because I'm on an iPhone and won't be able to connect my desktop for the next two weeks.
Post by: jonask84 on January 05, 2010, 10:24:09 am
Post by: Hippoman on January 05, 2010, 08:16:15 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 05, 2010, 08:29:37 pm
I see nothing worth purchasing. You run around and place blocks. It is glorified legos, but less fun. Sorry...I tried out minecraft. I don't see the draw...Perhaps our thread on it will help that? (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35804.0)
Or are you talking about the isometric feature?
That's only available in the In Development (http://www.minecraft.net/indev) version, which itself is only available for those who purchased the game.
Post by: A_Fey_Dwarf on January 05, 2010, 08:32:19 pm
Click this link -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w)
then this one -> http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png (http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png)
;D
Wow, that is amazing. Now... if someone can export an image of Flarechannel (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43679.0) through stonesense. That I would pay to see.
Post by: Koolaidmanohya on January 06, 2010, 02:05:32 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 06, 2010, 02:08:00 am
Post by: Rose on January 06, 2010, 08:59:02 am
Click this link -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w)
then this one -> http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png (http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png)
;D
Wow, that is amazing. Now... if someone can export an image of Flarechannel (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43679.0) through stonesense. That I would pay to see.
I'm just waiting for him to upload it.
Post by: kaypy on January 06, 2010, 09:17:25 am
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/withitems_th.png)
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/withitems.png (http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/withitems.png)
Post by: Rose on January 06, 2010, 09:21:38 am
in RL.
so I can turn it off in my room.
Post by: Freeklace on January 06, 2010, 09:42:47 am
Meanwhile, in another experimental branch...
(http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/withitems_th.png)
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/withitems.png (http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk61/kaypy/withitems.png)
mmmmmm.....items *drool*
Post by: Osmosis Jones on January 06, 2010, 09:57:39 am
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on January 06, 2010, 01:45:17 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 06, 2010, 02:28:28 pm
Post by: Jay on January 06, 2010, 04:41:12 pm
I see nothing worth purchasing. You run around and place blocks. It is glorified legos, but less fun. Sorry...That'd be because you're playing the Creative mode.
Once again, go to the thread we have on it.
Post by: kaypy on January 06, 2010, 04:48:28 pm
I suspect the details weren't the core of the problem, simply iterating through all the items took too long. If he employed the partial-update method, it's solved.Exactly. I outlined the basics here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43260.msg945445#msg945445). This leads to several limitations: it takes a while for the items to go from 'unidentified resting object' to identified. And an item in a pile is picked up while it is showing it will keep showing until some other object in the pile is refreshed. This refreshing also means that which object is shown for a pile changes erratically.
There's also a whole bunch of research that needs doing on what the object data means though.
So for example at the moment I'm pretty sure that items being carried are also a candidate for being drawn on the ground (provided theres something else on the ground to trigger the 'item here' indicator). Gotta be some way to pick that up.
Also it may be possible to make the cache a bit smarter. Depending on the way the vector grows, it may be possible to preferentially grab data for new items, so they would be identified faster. Now I think of it, a reverse lookup in the cache might help the item display stop showing items that used to be here. (and could maybe stop the rather ugly blink it has now)
Oh, and I don't seem to have a way to get the DF names of objects, so the configuration is all based on indexes (like for the terrain, but nastier, because you cant mod in different terrain types)
Post by: Khalan on January 08, 2010, 03:34:34 am
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on January 08, 2010, 03:51:24 pm
Post by: Jadael on January 08, 2010, 09:57:24 pm
Post by: Jay on January 09, 2010, 12:30:25 am
I wouldn't think it's possible to just grab the pertinent bits from the addresses without knowing exactly how they're stored, and that'd be Toady's-eyes-only kind of information.
Considering that the item vector will be completely different depending on what items you get, where they are, etc, I don't think it'd be easily possible to just grab locations even WITH Toady's help...
Post by: jonask84 on January 09, 2010, 08:39:32 am
Just wanted to say how freaking awesome it is to start seeing some items, and I can't wait to check the branch out!
On another note, we should be looking at stabilizing Stonesense Granite, that is removing the "RC2" tag. SO did anyone experience ANY problems with RC2? If so, please speak up now so we can iron them out before we lock down.
And lastly, we got some pretty exciting media exposure the other day: Half a page in PC Gamer UK! The printed version! The article listed the "top 10 must have mods", and we were #4 ;D
I was pretty floored when a friend of mine asked "isn't this the project you guys were working on?" and he showed me his copy. I will be uploading pics as soon as I get my phone, laptop and internet talking again :)
- Jonas at a friend's house
Post by: Solifuge on January 09, 2010, 12:10:42 pm
Before we started doing anything like that though, we should have done proper GUI planning, which is easily something to postpone.
Also, having items display, even if a bit clunky now, is quite awesome. Huzzah!
Post by: JayGOS on January 09, 2010, 06:57:53 pm
Post by: A Dwarven Smokeologist on January 09, 2010, 07:04:45 pm
...toggleable textblock blob that displayed over everything.
My two cents: I really like the textblock blob that is the current method if only for the fact I use Stonesense as a radar in adventure mode. Instead of searching 50 rooms in a dwarven lair I can easily scan through all the mob names and locate him, saving me an hour of room checking. At the very least I hope the current option always remains a choice.
Post by: Solifuge on January 09, 2010, 07:22:32 pm
Post by: Greiger on January 09, 2010, 08:30:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
See? Everybody's names are perfectly visible. Of course you can't tell where one name ends and another begins of course...or what profession they are...or the floor color...and I think theirs a Chohorse in there...
Joking aside yea finding some new way to handle the names may be handy. But It might be difficult to code, and you would need to have the current system handy just in case you were looking for a particular creature in a populated but not packed area. I can't think of a good way it could be handled though.
Post by: Shoehead on January 09, 2010, 09:55:06 pm
Post by: dreiche2 on January 10, 2010, 06:19:33 am
If they displayed when you cursor-highlighted, clicked on, or moused over
Holding Tab (or setting an option) could serve the purpose of displaying all names,
Sounds like a good solution, no?
Edit: word missing, pft.
Post by: Khalan on January 10, 2010, 07:53:38 am
Post by: stummel on January 12, 2010, 06:29:40 pm
Post by: jonask84 on January 13, 2010, 03:02:44 am
btw: is there a HUGE screenshot-selection from stonesense anywhere?No, but there should totally be one right?
Any ideas on where and how?
Post by: quinnr on January 13, 2010, 03:40:41 pm
how's it going jonas?
Post by: Itnetlolor on January 14, 2010, 02:41:51 am
Could help with doing an overview of the fortress if you're keeping track of multiple things at once.
Post by: jonask84 on January 14, 2010, 03:42:28 am
This thread has really died down...
how's it going jonas?
Yeah it's been calm since new years, but that suits me right now because I've been moving, and I don't have any internet in my apt. Combine this with the fact that I just got a new machine and I don't have any of my dev tools available.
Which means I can't really contribute much till I get things up and running again. Hopefully it will be soon. I'm going a bit stir-crazy.
Other than that I think an important step right now is to empower the artists and modders who want to contribute and/or make alternative graphics. I was thinking setting up a separate thread for graphics pack development, see if we can get people exchanging ideas and having fun with it :)
Then there is also the looming next version release, which will mean a lot of work for us devs, so I guess a little down time is well deserved :)
Post by: alphawolf29 on January 15, 2010, 03:50:45 am
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on January 16, 2010, 10:54:25 am
What am I doing wrong>?
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 16, 2010, 10:57:56 am
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on January 16, 2010, 11:01:17 am
Post by: Deon on January 16, 2010, 11:25:18 am
Post by: Khalan on January 16, 2010, 02:00:03 pm
Have you tried running both programs as administrator?
Post by: nenjin on January 16, 2010, 02:07:43 pm
Secondly, SS is displaying the non-custom names I gave my Dwarves. Is there any way I can mess with that, or change where it looks for the names to display?
Post by: kaypy on January 16, 2010, 05:07:52 pm
Hey all. Just stopped in to say first, you guys are gods for making this. It's a visual treat, and takes me back to my 16-bit days.8-)
Quote
Secondly, SS is displaying the non-custom names I gave my Dwarves. Is there any way I can mess with that, or change where it looks for the names to display?Well, if you are compiling your own, then it would be as simple as uncommenting a block in the Creatures.cpp file. As near as I can tell, its commented out because the nicknames on my particular fortress dont work out well. 8-) (At the time, the names were more for debugging purposes than an actual feature)
edit: Or you could grab the latest trunk version...
On the other hand...
Also an option to display dwarf names only / creature names only etc would be handy.
Is it possible to change it so that it displays nicknames rather than first names?I'm getting the feeling I really ought to overhaul the whole names thing. Add a few options, and maybe get some capitalization happening...
Post by: nagual678 on January 16, 2010, 06:49:53 pm
But yeah you are indeed gods for making this. I was wondering, what happens when the presentation arc or whatever comes around. I think Toady won't implement anything that can't be used with the currently available tilesets.
Those were my two cents.
Post by: Innominate on January 17, 2010, 04:15:09 am
I could potentially provide some pseudocode for the mouse position to tile function if you need it. It should be doable for you guys though, given the magic you've already wrought. The function might need to be used for the name display/mouse interaction anyway. A point to consider: should the function just return the first (highest z-level) non-empty tile underneath the cursor, or should it do a "raytrace" so you could choose a tile that is behind another tile with a ramp/creature in it? For example, if there is a bat in one tile and a dwarf in the tile isometrically below it, would we return the bat's tile all the time or would we return the dwarf's tile if the cursor wasn't pointed at the bat directly?
Post by: Mike Mayday on January 17, 2010, 05:12:46 am
Post by: kaypy on January 17, 2010, 06:36:18 am
It is already in. It's called "debug mode".We really need to get around to separating out the debug stuff from the general just-a-useful-cursor stuff at some stage though, so it can be brought out and shown to users rather than being kept chained in the config sub-basement...
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on January 17, 2010, 02:47:46 pm
::)
Post by: jonask84 on January 17, 2010, 03:13:33 pm
And thanks to you and that little video you we, and DF itself, got a lot of positive press!
Just look what a friend of mine found in this month's PC Gamer UK:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Hippoman on January 17, 2010, 03:14:52 pm
Post by: Deon on January 17, 2010, 03:55:18 pm
Also you cannot see if they are farming or being gored by elephants >:(
NOOBZORS! NOOBZORS!
Ahem... Nice to see it in the magazine.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on January 17, 2010, 04:30:27 pm
Post by: jarathor on January 17, 2010, 06:15:41 pm
Post by: Benny on January 17, 2010, 09:01:29 pm
Post by: Keita on January 18, 2010, 04:33:45 am
Post by: yuriy206 on January 18, 2010, 09:12:56 pm
Wrong DF version? It seems to be among the first causes of that error around here.
Nevermind, the error given out with Stonesense / bumptop is different. Although it is the same for a different DF add on program... Just tested to make sure.
Otherwise the http://mayday.w.staszic.waw.pl/df.php version appears to be compatible.
Also I recently got introduced to dwarf fortress and then found this a couple of days ago. Amazing work. A question I have though is why are some objects using other sprites (like the green glass table looking like a stone one). Is this a simple issue of lacking a sprite for it? If I were to make some sprites for things that are currently using the generic object sprites (and add the code to make them work) and wanted to share them, is there somewhere to put that kind of modding or is the developer accepting sprite submissions?
Post by: Elvang on January 18, 2010, 09:43:46 pm
Hmmm. *tries something*
EDIT: Alright, try re-downloading. Peat is changed.
EDIT: Sneak preview:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: yuriy206 on January 18, 2010, 10:10:09 pm
Post by: kaypy on January 19, 2010, 04:33:36 am
Oh ok, So it's mainly a program optimization issue then. Thanks.The program probably wouldn't cope too well with the number of variations Jadael set up, but a subset would likely be ok. If you wanted, you could adjust the graphics and configuration in your buildings directory, and then maybe put up the results on the Content Repository (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository)
Post by: jonask84 on January 19, 2010, 06:29:44 am
It's over here (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=48172.0) in the DF Dwarf Mode Discussion forum.
So if you have any neat (doesn't have to be that neat) screenshots, please share :)
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 19, 2010, 03:04:49 pm
Sounds like the object graphic storage needs tree-ifying.Oh ok, So it's mainly a program optimization issue then. Thanks.The program probably wouldn't cope too well with the number of variations Jadael set up, but a subset would likely be ok. If you wanted, you could adjust the graphics and configuration in your buildings directory, and then maybe put up the results on the Content Repository (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense:Content_repository)
Post by: Neonivek on January 19, 2010, 03:29:35 pm
Onyx Statue would be the most noticable. You can barely make out the features.
Post by: kaypy on January 22, 2010, 08:21:49 am
I'm sorta inclined to make the 'object' variant smaller or something. I'm trying in general to keep objects low-key relative to the other stuff on display.
Post by: Rose on January 22, 2010, 01:02:49 pm
Post by: Sean Mirrsen on January 22, 2010, 01:07:51 pm
*chokes laughing*
Post by: Deon on January 22, 2010, 01:13:27 pm
Post by: tobias on January 22, 2010, 02:11:26 pm
you could have them on their side, thus giving the impression that they are not set up.I like this idea a lot. As a different idea, I don't know if partial transparency is on the list of things to be added or not, but putting them at partial transparency could also be an option.
Post by: crash2455 on January 22, 2010, 02:17:46 pm
On the subject of furniture, does anyone have any good ideas for handling furniture-installed-in-a-room vs furniture-lying-around-a-stockpile?
I'm sorta inclined to make the 'object' variant smaller or something. I'm trying in general to keep objects low-key relative to the other stuff on display.
It is sort of puzzling. The game doesn't even show a distinction between them. Transparency would be a simple fix, or simply making a smaller sprite of the existing item.
you could have them on their side, thus giving the impression that they are not set up.I also second this idea.
Make a flatpack package with IKEA written across it.
*chokes laughing*
You sir, have won the internets.
Post by: EugeneL on January 22, 2010, 02:23:34 pm
Does anybody know, is this tool is compatible with the Dwarven Fortress v 0_28_181_40d?
Post by: crash2455 on January 22, 2010, 04:12:31 pm
Edit: I've been working on a spritesheet with more easily distinguishable soldiers, but I've run into a problem:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: xoen on January 22, 2010, 04:23:11 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on January 22, 2010, 04:42:59 pm
It is compatible with all of the 40d versions, up to and including 40d16.
Edit: I've been working on a spritesheet with more easily distinguishable soldiers, but I've run into a problem:
<... snip ...>
What program are you using to save the sprite sheets? If I remember correctly, some will compress the images in unpleasant ways when you save them.
Post by: Krelos on January 22, 2010, 04:47:52 pm
It is compatible with all of the 40d versions, up to and including 40d16.I ran into this problem with a tileset in DF itself yesterday, so I have no clue if what I did will work here.. but:
Edit: I've been working on a spritesheet with more easily distinguishable soldiers, but I've run into a problem:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Open both the original working sprite image and your one which isn't working properly in Paint.
Copy/Paste yours onto the old working one and save it.
That's what I did and it worked, I don't really know why.. and like I said, this might not do anything since its in Stonesense and my problem was in DF itself... But hey, worth a shot right?
Post by: Deon on January 22, 2010, 05:22:16 pm
Post by: peterix on January 22, 2010, 06:05:30 pm
Post by: Neonivek on January 22, 2010, 07:34:22 pm
Ignore what was written here
Post by: kaypy on January 22, 2010, 08:02:57 pm
OK, a quick search was not good enough, is there anybody describing a setup of SVN (please?) for this? :) I want those furniture and materials for walls to be displayed.
There are compiling notes... er... in the SVN... but you can get to them directly:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/ON%20COMPILING.txt (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/ON%20COMPILING.txt)
If this isnt enough to get you set up, let me know so I can add more details.
MinGW is what I use, so that's what has the most documentation 8-)
Edit: I've been working on a spritesheet with more easily distinguishable soldiers, but I've run into a problem:
I've checked the original sheet against mine, and both of them have identical background colors (#ff00ff). Any idea why this is happening?
If you have an alpha channel, then it will try to use that for transparency. If you can remove that channel- the command is 'flatten image' in the GIMP, may be different in whatever you are using- then it should work.
Post by: A_Fey_Dwarf on January 22, 2010, 08:44:20 pm
Click this link -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWnmCu3U09w)
then this one -> http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png (http://pix.sparky-s.ie/09023.png)
;D
Wow, that is amazing. Now... if someone can export an image of Flarechannel (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43679.0) through stonesense. That I would pay to see.
I'm just waiting for him to upload it.
---> http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1749 The gods require it of you.
Post by: EugeneL on January 23, 2010, 01:42:21 am
Edit: I've been working on a spritesheet with more easily distinguishable soldiers, but I've run into a problem:
May be, you need to use "transparent background"? (in different editors this option is activated in different way)
Post by: Rose on January 23, 2010, 02:59:59 am
1: stonesense does not have all the colorful colors just yet (at least not my copy. there might be packs)
2: that's an early save without many of the projects done :(
Post by: Deon on January 23, 2010, 05:32:31 am
OK, a quick search was not good enough, is there anybody describing a setup of SVN (please?) for this? :) I want those furniture and materials for walls to be displayed.
There are compiling notes... er... in the SVN... but you can get to them directly:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/ON%20COMPILING.txt (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/ON%20COMPILING.txt)
If this isnt enough to get you set up, let me know so I can add more details.
MinGW is what I use, so that's what has the most documentation 8-)
Thanks for that. I didn't look into MinGW, I am a general newbie with any "advanced" soft unless I really need it (and then I spend half an hour reading documentation and forums etc. to get it to work :P) thus i use a very easy-to-use TortoiseSVN, I've got the checkout and now I will try to follow other instructions.
I think you should pin a link to this document in the original post, it's really useful.
// Revision 1
OK Now I feel like a real newb, I thought that MinGW is some kind of a svn client, but it's a port of the GNU compiler for win :). Ignore everything above hehe.
// Revision 2
Should i add "DFProcessEnumerator-windows.cpp" and "DFProcess-windows.cpp" in CMakeLists too? I mean, because I use windows?
// Revision 3
Why is there contributions.txt in cmakelists.txt? Shouldn't there be CPP files only?
Post by: Deon on January 23, 2010, 05:53:17 am
Code: [Select]
...
-- Detecting CXX compiler ABI info
-- Detecting CXX compiler ABI info - done
CMake Error: your RC compiler: "windres" was not found. Please set CMAKE_RC_COMPILER to a valid compiler path or name.
-- Configuration incomplete, errors occured!
// Revision 1
- I've found that there's a wizard mode for cmake (-i) and CMAKE_RC_COMPILER variable is "windres"... Where do I get this thing? It's some kind of resource compiler, right?
- some path variables were C:/Progra~1/MinGW/ and I think they were broken... There's nothing about it in your manual, is it normal? I've changed them.
- How to effectively clear the cmake cache? because it wants to compile binaries to the old place when I moved a folder.
Sorry for multiple questions, I am a real newbie :).
// Revision 2
Let me try to answer my third question... I've checked various things in wizard mode... Should I type:
Code: [Select]
SET(EXECUTABLE_OUTPUT_PATH *new path*)
?// Revision 3
Still I get an error with "windres". what did I do wrong ? :P
// Revision 4
I've figured out where's my windres.exe (C:/Program Files/MinGW/Bin/windres.exe), how to set up the CMAKE_RC_COMPILER variable? Is there a file with a list of variable definitions?
// Revision 5
I was able to change the variable but the new error is "mingw32-make.exe is not a win32 command", and there's no mingw32-make.exe file in D:/Program Files/Stonesense/Build/ directory.
The output of the previous command (cmake .. ***) was:
Code: [Select]
-- Generating done
-- Build files have been written to: D:/Program Files/Stonesense/buildThe problem is that the last command is not working and i don't see any new "build files" but "Makefile" file only (without an extension).
Post by: Deon on January 23, 2010, 07:05:04 am
I've found that I have this file, I just didn't set up environment variables properly.
I've set PATH to C:/Program Files/MinGW/Bin in "My computer"->"Environmental variables" and this worked.
Now I get another error :P
(http://i50.tinypic.com/35hnzpy.png)
Which build tool should I use?
Also, looking at that error, it looks for specific files in /Cmakefiles/ where they are not present (but they are in /build-real/).
Post by: kaypy on January 23, 2010, 08:44:21 am
Hadn't noticed the windres thing - thats for the sprite, which is newer than the compilation instructions... Before it was just cmake and mingw-make, so you could just call them with absolute paths...
Hmm. I think it should work out OK if you set up all the paths for MinGW before you do the initial CMAKE step. From your last error, it looks like your initial CMake was aiming for a MSVS build, so wont be compatible with the MinGW stuff...
It might be easiest to clean out the junk in the build directory and start over...
Edit: OK, I have tweaked the instructions a bit so they should now reflect what you need to do with paths a bit better
Post by: Deon on January 23, 2010, 09:52:52 am
I wonder how should I configure CMake to use mingw instead of msvs... Oh well, let's check your instructions first, then ask. ;)
If something goes wrong, I will ask, ok? :)
Post by: kaypy on January 23, 2010, 11:14:34 am
Yeah I guessed that it's looking for MSVS, I will look at your changes when I return home (soon), I hope it works this way. If you wonder, my initial CMake was installed by default from the link you provided :).I think it was a side effect of the windres problems, so hopefully it should go smoothly this time (I did a clean checkout and run through myself, so with any luck...)
Quote
If something goes wrong, I will ask, ok? :)Sure. Enough questions and eventually I might get the instructions to work for everyone 8-)
Oh, and from earlier:
Should i add "DFProcessEnumerator-windows.cpp" and "DFProcess-windows.cpp" in CMakeLists too? I mean, because I use windows?Ideally you shouldnt need to do anything to the Cmakelists.txt. The bit about adding to the Cmakelists is mainly if things go wrong. Hmm. I should really move it to a 'troubleshooting' section or something.
Why is there contributions.txt in cmakelists.txt? Shouldn't there be CPP files only?
Of course, it turns out that the CMakelists *was* in fact out of date, but I have a new version in there now if you update your checkout (assuming you are building the items branch)
Post by: Deon on January 23, 2010, 01:34:27 pm
Post by: QuantumSawdust on January 23, 2010, 02:17:11 pm
yeah, I got flarechannel, but was dissapointed in two areas:
1: stonesense does not have all the colorful colors just yet (at least not my copy. there might be packs)
2: that's an early save without many of the projects done :(
Ahh, I didn't anyone was waiting on an updated save. I'm currently finishing off my above-ground constructions, and several projects are pretty close to completion. I can try to focus on those for a few days and finish them if it would help. Having stone colors would be pretty nice though... is it something I could help with (i.e., easy even if time consuming)?
Post by: kaypy on January 23, 2010, 08:26:11 pm
And adding those two files brought up an error that they're mentioned twice (thus mentioned elsewhere) so they are not needed.Yep. So did the build work this time?
Post by: Rose on January 24, 2010, 12:09:36 am
yeah, I got flarechannel, but was dissapointed in two areas:
1: stonesense does not have all the colorful colors just yet (at least not my copy. there might be packs)
2: that's an early save without many of the projects done :(
Ahh, I didn't anyone was waiting on an updated save. I'm currently finishing off my above-ground constructions, and several projects are pretty close to completion. I can try to focus on those for a few days and finish them if it would help. Having stone colors would be pretty nice though... is it something I could help with (i.e., easy even if time consuming)?
pretty much just need lots of sprites.
once sprites are done, it's just a matter of editing a bunch of xml files.
Post by: Greiger on January 25, 2010, 07:50:49 pm
Spoiler: reminder (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well I just got it too, after some editing the whole sprite sheet does it. Background is magenta(255,0,255), I don't even know how to use alpha so I doubt I have that on.
Fortunately I have a backup, but I have no idea what caused this. Using Gimp. All I did was add sprites for Wrestlers, Elite Wrestlers, Champions and added a number to a convenient blank spot for an easier time remembering sprite index locations.
Post by: LegoLord on January 25, 2010, 07:57:03 pm
Post by: Greiger on January 25, 2010, 08:00:04 pm
Spoiler: spritesheet (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: xml (click to show/hide)
[subliminal]This edit never happened. I remembered to put in the spritesheet and xml up above. You do not see this.[/subliminal]
Edit # 6 Managed to just paste the new stuff into another copy of my backup and saved it into the stonesense creature directory, and that worked fine. So I have it working. But I still have no idea what caused it to mess up. Maybe something to do with the addition of the number is all I can think of.
Post by: kaypy on January 25, 2010, 09:45:46 pm
Well I just got it too, after some editing the whole sprite sheet does it. Background is magenta(255,0,255), I don't even know how to use alpha so I inevitably have it on without knowing it.Fixed that for ya.
Use the flatten image command. I'm surprised you got non-updating stuff rather than swathes of pink everywhere, though...
Quote
Fortunately I have a backup, but I have no idea what caused this. Using Gimp. All I did was add sprites for Wrestlers, Elite Wrestlers, Champions and added a number to a convenient blank spot for an easier time remembering sprite index locations.Yeah adding any text would invoke the dread alpha.
Oh, by the way, try hitting F10 a few times while stonesense is running. You might find it easier than adding numbers to your images 8-)
Post by: Greiger on January 25, 2010, 09:57:12 pm
Oh well, now I know. Merge = Bad. Flatten = good. I was a little at a loss when adding the number. It didn't give me my trusty anchor command. Thank you for the info. Maybe this will keep others from making the same mistake and losing all their work.
Post by: Rose on January 26, 2010, 04:14:14 am
Spoiler: Linear (the current method, slightly faster) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Sine (aka ease in, ease out) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Logarithmic (aka ease out) (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Inverse Logarithmic (aka ease in) (click to show/hide)
I think Inverse Logarithmic looks the most natural.
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 26, 2010, 04:25:40 am
Post by: TauQuebb on January 26, 2010, 05:50:59 am
The inverse log does look more natural, but is less informative on small level differences.
Post by: vanarbulax on January 26, 2010, 07:49:16 am
Post by: Rose on January 26, 2010, 07:59:38 am
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 26, 2010, 07:59:55 am
On second thought, the sine is definitely worse than the linear.
It comes down to linear vs. inv.log, with clear lead for linear. Inverse log is not out of the running yet, however.
Post by: Hippoman on January 26, 2010, 08:09:27 am
Post by: dyze on January 26, 2010, 09:18:12 am
Post by: Truean on January 26, 2010, 11:57:29 am
Do you think the fog can be a toggle option similar to the "b" key option now?
Wonderful work as always. Thank you very much, you are greatly appreciated.
Post by: Hippoman on January 26, 2010, 02:45:18 pm
no surpise since your eyes are missing :PLOL! Nice.
Either way, after putting my eyes on, I see the difference. I like the last one best.
Post by: Spong on January 26, 2010, 04:28:57 pm
oh i'm running windows 7 btw, but seems to run those versions of DF fine just not Stonesense.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 26, 2010, 04:55:28 pm
I tried using the windows installer but I'm getting the 'no map loaded' problem, I've tried running 40d and 40d16, the version off Ranting Rodents bundle install and the Mayday bundle install but it wont work with any of them. Help?
oh i'm running windows 7 btw, but seems to run those versions of DF fine just not Stonesense.
Win7 itself is not your problem. I run Win7 and my stonesense and DF work fine.
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on January 26, 2010, 11:38:50 pm
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 27, 2010, 04:27:54 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 27, 2010, 05:06:11 am
Post by: EugeneL on January 27, 2010, 06:47:07 am
Post by: SeigeOps on January 27, 2010, 07:24:03 am
And where could i find instruction how to use the StoneSence?
There should be a readme.txt file in the folder Stonesense came in.
Post by: DrJonez on January 27, 2010, 11:09:28 am
What am I doing wrong? :(
Post by: Jadael on January 27, 2010, 03:08:26 pm
Post by: Greiger on January 27, 2010, 03:16:58 pm
If you are using a compatible version and yer using something like Vista check to see if DF is running in admin mode. Stonesense cannot read memory of administrator mode programs unless Stonesense is also in administrator mode.
Other than that I can't help much. Those are the only 2 reasons that message ever came up for me.
Post by: EugeneL on January 27, 2010, 04:03:18 pm
I'm trying to use Stonesense for the first time, and I just get "Can not find DF process" when I try to use it. I've got my current saved fort loaded but paused in the background, but the program just doesn't seem to link up the way it should.
What am I doing wrong? :(
You need to launch the DF fortress first, if i'm not mistaken
Post by: Deon on January 27, 2010, 07:48:53 pm
Quote
I've got my current saved fort loaded but paused in the backgroundSee? It's launched.
Do you use it with 40d16?
Post by: DrJonez on January 27, 2010, 08:04:01 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on January 27, 2010, 08:09:12 pm
I'm using Vista, but I don't think DF is running in admin mode. Also, I'm using the last DF release, 0.28.181.40c.
There's your problem right there (I hope). The newest version is 0.28.181.40d with a branch of graphic updates at 0.28.181.40d16 (40d17 in a day or two).
Download 0.28.181.40d (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_28_181_40d.zip)
Download 0.28.181.40d16 (windows) (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_28_181_40d16_win.zip)
40d# series forum thread (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=40349)
Post by: DrJonez on January 27, 2010, 08:10:58 pm
Also, is my saved game from this version compatible with this newer one? :/
Post by: JanusTwoface on January 27, 2010, 08:20:51 pm
Graphics updates? Sorry, I don't follow the forums regularly. Does that mean the ASCII is different or something?
Also, is my saved game from this version compatible with this newer one? :/
No, it's the same ASCII graphics, but (from what I understand) Toady released bindings for the underlying OpenGL code and a group has been working with him to update it. On some computers / graphics cards there's a decent bit of speed up. On some, there's nothing.
I think that Stonesense works with 40d and know that it works with 40d16.
Post by: Rose on January 27, 2010, 09:07:56 pm
regarding a fixed fog, yes, that's possible.
I'll look into it after I finish (or give up on) my attempt to upgrade stonesense to allegro5 (well, 4.9.16, tbh) which may or may not give transparencies and realtime sizeable windows.
Post by: DrJonez on January 28, 2010, 01:08:17 am
Also, Stonesense doesn't seem to scroll all the way to the edge of my fort's map. For instance, I have my Baron's quarters near the edge of the map, but I can't actually see it in Stonesense. I scroll over as far as possible in DF but Stonesense doesn't go to the edge.
Post by: James.Denholm on January 28, 2010, 01:39:57 am
Post by: Rose on January 28, 2010, 02:39:38 am
all the 40d versions, including 40d17, are very similar.
the next version will be completely different in every way.
Post by: James.Denholm on January 28, 2010, 03:21:08 am
Yeahyougettheidea.
Post by: kaypy on January 28, 2010, 03:42:58 am
Oh, okay. I just thought, because it seems (at least to me) that the d# branch is essentially manipulating the entirety of how DF is outputted...Yeah, but the net result of that is that the d# internals are all pretty much the same, bar a little bit of shifting around. The next version everything will be drastically changed, so memory research will just about start from scratch.
Post by: kaypy on January 28, 2010, 03:48:28 am
Also, Stonesense doesn't seem to scroll all the way to the edge of my fort's map. For instance, I have my Baron's quarters near the edge of the map, but I can't actually see it in Stonesense. I scroll over as far as possible in DF but Stonesense doesn't go to the edge.Theres only so much that can be achieved by follow mode... You could try toggling the TRACK_CENTER, but that has its own issues... Eventually you just have to move the stonesense window yourself...
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 28, 2010, 09:58:28 am
So there doesn't seem to be a variable in the init in the new version for the grid size. That means running the game at the same window size as I'm used to makes everything stretched out and weird looking. What do I do? :(Convert the old 800x600 font since I'm betting that's what you're using. Older versions autostretched it x2 vertically (by virtue of the init options GRID, etc), so Baughn stretched the font vertically by default.
I'm pretty sure I uploaded the 'fixed' version somewhere, but...not for this thread really-oh, here it is (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9540/curses800x600old.png)
Post by: Jay on January 29, 2010, 10:01:05 pm
Stonesense should work with the new major release?Not a chance.
Externalizing the OpenGL hooks so that Baughn (not a group, just Baughn) can work on improving the render performance has nothing to do with how the actual map data is stored.
There's way too much change.
Post by: xoen on January 29, 2010, 10:14:40 pm
Code: [Select]
40d17 in a day or twoWHAT?upd: uh, it seems like i had mistaken 2010 and d17..
can anyone give me full changelog of d17, please?
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 29, 2010, 11:04:27 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on January 29, 2010, 11:07:45 pm
Code: [Select]40d17 in a day or twoWHAT?
upd: uh, it seems like i had mistaken 2010 and d17..
can anyone give me full changelog of d17, please?
- Rewritten input system that should fix the 40d16 input bugs
- New "2D" graphics mode that should avoid a lot of the driver/OpenGL problems
That's about it. It's not aiming for new features.
Post by: xoen on January 29, 2010, 11:24:43 pm
Post by: Jay on January 30, 2010, 01:38:25 am
2010I'm really not sure why people are calling it that.
Barring Toady overdoing a release ala this one, there really should be another one this year.
I have absolutely no clue what it should be, by Toady's numbering, but naming it by year is just inherently a bad idea.
Post by: Eagle0600 on January 30, 2010, 01:42:19 am
Post by: Deon on January 30, 2010, 03:50:06 am
So there doesn't seem to be a variable in the init in the new version for the grid size. That means running the game at the same window size as I'm used to makes everything stretched out and weird looking. What do I do? :(
Set [GRAPHICS_BLACK_SPACE:YES] and [BLACK_SPACE:YES] and it will fix your problems with filling "additional" space of a window with black space without stretching your tiles. Also you can resize the window with a mouse on the fly if you didn't know it.
Post by: jonask84 on January 30, 2010, 04:31:57 am
I just saw some of the new forts that have been uploaded on the screenshot thread, check out this one fort Silverwaters (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=48172.msg1001040#msg1001040).
It's pretty cool ;D
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2010, 04:44:27 am
2010I'm really not sure why people are calling it that.
Barring Toady overdoing a release ala this one, there really should be another one this year.
I have absolutely no clue what it should be, by Toady's numbering, but naming it by year is just inherently a bad idea.
Because DF2010 is catchy, and we've been waiting a long time.
Post by: Greiger on January 30, 2010, 10:26:04 am
Anyway for the sake of screenshotty goodness I give you my modest still under construction surface fort I told myself I would work on souly until the new version. (because I wanna figure out how to do large stonesense images too.)
Spoiler: 2 Big images (click to show/hide)
P.S. I would put them in the stonesense SS thread but they are not WTF awesome enough. I have trouble thinking outside the square shaped stone structure.
EDIT: Bah photobucket sized them down from the origonal 1360x1024 and it got a little blurry. Oh well, still pretty big images and it's not too bad blur wise. I suppose photobucket can't have everybody linking huge images for the sake of their bandwidth.
Post by: Untelligent on January 30, 2010, 10:45:29 am
2010I'm really not sure why people are calling it that.
Barring Toady overdoing a release ala this one, there really should be another one this year.
Personally, when I mention DF2010, I'm not just referring to the very next release, I'm referring to most of the ones that come after it. Like what we refer to now as the 2D version and the 3D version.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2010, 06:17:40 pm
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on January 30, 2010, 07:04:50 pm
Post by: Christes on January 30, 2010, 09:19:50 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on January 30, 2010, 09:32:24 pm
Post by: A Dwarven Smokeologist on January 30, 2010, 09:45:23 pm
Too much maybe?
Post by: Untelligent on January 30, 2010, 10:48:55 pm
Calling it "2010" is dumb. It'll have a version number.
Aye, that's why it shouldn't just refer to the very next version, like I said.
Post by: Lord Nightmare on January 30, 2010, 11:01:26 pm
Sounds almost like the name of an expansion pack...
LN
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 30, 2010, 11:24:34 pm
Calling it "2010" is dumb. It'll have a version number.
Both are completely legitimate. You don't have to use the moniker if you don't want to.
Post by: LegoLord on January 30, 2010, 11:59:22 pm
No reason to go calling people out for calling this and those after it '2010.' I probably won't myself, but others seem to like it.
Post by: xoen on January 31, 2010, 01:42:04 am
exactly.Calling it "2010" is dumb. It'll have a version number.
Both are completely legitimate. You don't have to use the moniker if you don't want to.
we are free people.
Post by: Deon on January 31, 2010, 04:08:27 am
DF2010:The_Year_We_Make_Contact_With_the_UndergroundThe_Year_We_Regain_Contact_With_the_Underground
Too much maybe?
You know, there were ratmen climbing out of chasms and olms going up the wells back in 2d. The more garbage you had dumped into the chasm, the more angry underground denizens you got. Toady nerfed it first, now we get it back.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 31, 2010, 04:17:07 am
Post by: Deon on January 31, 2010, 04:46:59 am
Quote
I wonder if we'll ever get those feature backNext release.
Post by: Rose on January 31, 2010, 05:58:16 am
Spoiler: lil something I'm working on. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Innominate on January 31, 2010, 06:36:44 am
Post by: Rose on January 31, 2010, 06:45:15 am
*then points to the maximise button*
...
...
*then points to the water*
Post by: Footkerchief on January 31, 2010, 06:52:12 am
Post by: Rose on January 31, 2010, 06:58:43 am
I'm actually in the process of revamping the entire engine, and upgrading it to allegro4.9, which uses hardware acceleration, thus giving alpha blending basically for free.
Post by: dyze on January 31, 2010, 08:19:13 am
Post by: Rose on January 31, 2010, 08:24:51 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on January 31, 2010, 12:26:36 pm
Is that a fort design utility? Because I must say, I've wanted one of those pretty much ever since I found Stonesense.DF Designer (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=45433.0), Quickfort (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=35931.0)
Post by: Retro on February 01, 2010, 06:42:35 am
Post by: Rose on February 01, 2010, 06:52:15 am
I just threw together some colored tiles pretty much specifically for that image.
Post by: Spectral on February 01, 2010, 10:53:27 am
Awesome job to the dev, your a bloody wizard! :D
Post by: Hiturunk on February 01, 2010, 03:57:03 pm
I've got quite a few broken buttons on my keyboard, Namely my F keys, So I can't press F9 to start Stonesense, Is there any way I could..Y'know, Circumvent having to press F9?
Post by: Footkerchief on February 01, 2010, 04:03:59 pm
Um, First post here.
I've got quite a few broken buttons on my keyboard, Namely my F keys, So I can't press F9 to start Stonesense, Is there any way I could..Y'know, Circumvent having to press F9?
Here's a page that explains how to remap your keyboard (http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/remap-keyboard.htm) so that you can make Windows think you're pressing F9.
Post by: Hiturunk on February 01, 2010, 04:05:45 pm
Um, First post here.
I've got quite a few broken buttons on my keyboard, Namely my F keys, So I can't press F9 to start Stonesense, Is there any way I could..Y'know, Circumvent having to press F9?
Here's a page that explains how to remap your keyboard (http://vlaurie.com/computers2/Articles/remap-keyboard.htm) so that you can make Windows think you're pressing F9.
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Edit: The only real available button I have is Capslock...Which, If I use, Enables capslock on my keyboard, Therefore making all text HUGE, AND SEEMINGLY ANGRY.
Any other ideas out there guys?
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 01, 2010, 05:23:09 pm
(http://pix.sparky-s.ie/96a0a.png)I don't suppose this gets us tile colorizing for similarly low cost?
I'm actually in the process of revamping the entire engine, and upgrading it to allegro4.9, which uses hardware acceleration, thus giving alpha blending basically for free.
Post by: jonask84 on February 02, 2010, 06:20:07 am
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Edit: The only real available button I have is Capslock...Which, If I use, Enables capslock on my keyboard, Therefore making all text HUGE, AND SEEMINGLY ANGRY.
Any other ideas out there guys?
Hiturunk, first off thanks for trying out Stonesense :)
Secondly, to disable the intro screen (and so the F9 pressing) simply go into your init.txt and set INTRO to OFF. That should do the trick
Post by: Campabl on February 02, 2010, 01:34:18 pm
Post by: Jay on February 02, 2010, 04:46:37 pm
it looks amazing but does it work for mac?It's an EXE, Windows' executable format.
Of course not.
Unless you were to get the source code and compile it for Mac, anyway.
Post by: Hiturunk on February 02, 2010, 05:55:02 pm
Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Edit: The only real available button I have is Capslock...Which, If I use, Enables capslock on my keyboard, Therefore making all text HUGE, AND SEEMINGLY ANGRY.
Any other ideas out there guys?
Hiturunk, first off thanks for trying out Stonesense :)
Secondly, to disable the intro screen (and so the F9 pressing) simply go into your init.txt and set INTRO to OFF. That should do the trick
This worked PERFECTLY thank you.
BEAUTIFUL visualizer. ;w;
Post by: InsanityPrelude on February 02, 2010, 07:43:03 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 02, 2010, 07:45:39 pm
Post by: peterix on February 02, 2010, 08:07:24 pm
Not going to happen unless someone invests a great amount of time into memory research and porting. Let's say up to a month of dedicated effort. That person needs to know the Mac OS internals, programming and have some amount of cracking experience.it looks amazing but does it work for mac?It's an EXE, Windows' executable format.
Of course not.
Unless you were to get the source code and compile it for Mac, anyway.
I'm trying to start it up now, but my firewall's popping up a million alerts. Why does it need to access everything I have running?Because it needs to find DF - by looking at everything. It can't tell otherwise. I'd suggest white-listing stonesense, it doesn't do anything bad.
Post by: darkedone02 on February 02, 2010, 08:14:59 pm
Post by: Untelligent on February 02, 2010, 09:05:35 pm
Can't wait until we can take bigger screenshots. Is Japa still working on that?
Post by: darkedone02 on February 03, 2010, 12:15:42 am
Post by: Rose on February 03, 2010, 01:56:19 am
I don't suppose this gets us tile colorizing for similarly low cost?
Actually, what I said was premature. while transparencies don't give any extra cost, the overall rendering is slower, so it needs a lot of testing to decide it it's all worth it.
Can't wait until we can take bigger screenshots. Is Japa still working on that?
My work on that is done, I'm just waiting for Jonask to show up so I can get it into trunk.
Post by: jonask84 on February 03, 2010, 06:59:48 am
@Japa: And here I am :) Or, I am at work right now, but I just got my internet connection set up at my new aprt this weekend, so I'm back in business.
I trust we'll see each other on IRC soon :) cheers mate!
Post by: Tibbleboo on February 03, 2010, 11:23:21 am
Edit: nevermind i found it haha, this is why i always lost at hide and seek, i never look hard enough :|
Post by: LegitMacgyver on February 03, 2010, 01:03:31 pm
Why not make the stairs all spiral staircases so that they are omni-directional and don't look wonky and wrong stacked on top of each other?
Also bigger question:
Is it even on the teams radar anymore to apply this to the games main navigational screen as a mod anymore? Is that even possible? Would that be over stepping your boundaries out of respect for the games vision?
Cheerio,
The LegitMacgyver
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on February 03, 2010, 04:21:08 pm
i don't perfer the cartoon-ish look but it's the best graphical look out there that goes as far SNES graphics instead of ACSII... which is amazing. Now it will be best if there someone out there that can make it look Playstation-ish (Breath of Fire IV, Final Fantasy 7, Grandia 1, etc). They came this far, now I wonder how farther can they go? This will be a challenge and an amazement if they go further imo.
Have you looked at Khazad (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=34633.0) or Visual Fortress (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=39541.0)?
Post by: Jay on February 03, 2010, 09:37:27 pm
Not going to happen unless someone invests a great amount of time into memory research and porting. Let's say up to a month of dedicated effort. That person needs to know the Mac OS internals, programming and have some amount of cracking experience.My original statement of "Of course not." stands.
You'd be better off getting a copy of Windows and using Bootcamp.
Post by: LoneJedi7 on February 03, 2010, 10:41:43 pm
Post by: A_Fey_Dwarf on February 03, 2010, 10:51:26 pm
Post by: jonask84 on February 04, 2010, 05:25:00 am
Stonsense is awesome i just have to say, one quick question however, i would like to get started on making a graphics set, what are the lengths and widths of one character, because those elves be pretty tall :o
You should check out some of the tutorials over on the DF wiki (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Stonesense_(visualizer)), they should get you started :)
@LegitMacgyver: We did experiment with those, and they sorta work yeah. Two things though: It was hard for me at the time (before I had help of some of these amazing artists) to draw spiral stairs. And also some people use stairs as a grand flight of stairs, in which case the half-assed rotation they do now sorta work better.
As for implementing with the DF UI, that's been discussed several times before, so in summation: It would be cool if Toady put in some "plugin hook" or something, but by no meas are we pressuring him to do this. It's his game, We like what he's done so far; We trust his judgment.
Post by: jonask84 on February 07, 2010, 06:57:14 am
He has made a staggering about of dwarf profession sprites, must be hundreds by my count. And they look fantastic! Be sure to note he says it's still a WIP though, but it looks very promising!
Caldfir's Dwarves (http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Caldfir.27s_Dwarves)
Post by: Spong on February 07, 2010, 10:03:25 pm
Post by: jonask84 on February 08, 2010, 03:09:34 am
For some reason Stonesense shows all my constructed walls, ramps, stairs and floors the same grey colour but I've seen screenshots of wooden walls and similar - is there a setting I have to change to show the wall material?
Some of the walls should have custom graphics by default, like wood or metal. If those don't work there's something wrong. As for ramps, awaiting the next release you could try this:
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Additional_Ramps
Post by: Khalan on February 08, 2010, 09:58:34 am
... be sure to check out the content pack Caldfir just uploaded last night ...Thanks for the heads up jonask, they do look great.
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 08, 2010, 05:21:05 pm
Post by: Retro on February 10, 2010, 04:04:58 am
Post by: Innominate on February 10, 2010, 05:25:27 am
I'm having a bit of trouble with the draw size. Despite continuing to set my Z size higher and higher (up from 20 to the current 150), it refuses to display more than 29 levels at once, so I can only see the bottommost tips of the stalactites I've carved from the lake, or the whole cluster of stalactites with mysterious empty space below them where the lake should be. I think I might be having the same issue with the XY size, as I've likewise slowly incremented it up to 100 without it showing very much to either side at all. Does any immediate solution present itself?There could be a hard-coded maximum, probably to prevent people misunderstanding and setting a ridiculous value (such as thinking it was pixels and doing 1600 or something). Any dev members able to comment?
Post by: Rose on February 10, 2010, 05:46:57 am
Post by: Retro on February 10, 2010, 12:06:36 pm
when stonesense reads the config file, is puts an arbitary limit of 30 Z levels. however, once it's running, you can use the 1 and 2 keys to increase it to your hearts content.
Ah! Exactly what I was looking for, thanks. I'll go drop some shots in the screenies thread later.
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on February 11, 2010, 01:17:42 pm
Post by: Spong on February 11, 2010, 09:09:38 pm
For some reason Stonesense shows all my constructed walls, ramps, stairs and floors the same grey colour but I've seen screenshots of wooden walls and similar - is there a setting I have to change to show the wall material?
Some of the walls should have custom graphics by default, like wood or metal. If those don't work there's something wrong. As for ramps, awaiting the next release you could try this:
http://dwarffortresswiki.net/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Additional_Ramps
I reinstalled and its working just fine now.
Also - I've recently developed a habit of constructing my forts out of Olivine which renders a nice dark green in VisualFortress and Khazad, any plans for more coloured walls in later versions of Stonesense?
Post by: jonask84 on February 12, 2010, 03:12:22 am
I reinstalled and its working just fine now.
Also - I've recently developed a habit of constructing my forts out of Olivine which renders a nice dark green in VisualFortress and Khazad, any plans for more coloured walls in later versions of Stonesense?
We do support walls of any color or texture really, the only thing needed is that someone draws some Olivine walls :) After that it's just a matter of adding them to the config system.
What Visfort and khazad do is to take one default texture, then shade that to different colors. We have been playing with that for Stonesense too (Japa did some really promising work), and white it's a cheap solution it will never look as good as if we actually drew some Olivine walls.
@Kaelem Gaen: I talked with peterix the other day, and he said dfHack should be compatible with 40D17 now. But there might be some bugs. That's why I'm a little reluctant to release it until we know it works (at least close to) 100%.
But like you pointed out, it's in the SVN if anyone feels adventurous :)
Post by: nogibator on February 12, 2010, 05:58:41 am
cause we all know that it is great to have such a nice visualizer, but it will be double as great to be able to actually play df in it. was there any kind of conversation with Toady, cause i think dwarf fortress can extend it's popularity with such a nice interface and it's in Toady's interest to extend df popularity.
i'm not talcking about changing original df interface, just supposing that it would be cool to minimize df, launch stonesense, then press d-h and designate channel.
and it would be cool and profitable for everybody to have people informed on df download page that there is such an interface.
sorry for bad grammar, nnes.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on February 12, 2010, 06:10:51 am
Quote
What Visfort and khazad do is to take one default texture, then shade that to different colors.
Actually Khazad dose use multiple textures and then shades them multiple colors, each material can have its own texture/color pairing or use a raw texture without shading if desired, its all in the XML. Naturally we lack enough textures having even less the StoneSense. Though I did recently add the ability to utilize textures held in grid form which should help me 'borrow' some of yours :P
Quote
hey guys, there is a question: is there any plans to integrate df controls in stonesense?
If you ask peterix he might try some simple keyboard input simulations, this has been demonstrated to work but is cumbersome as DFHack sends artificial keyboard events into SDL which DF consumes. You'd have to have a good case as to which functionality you think should be done and why it would be worth while.
Post by: tompliss on February 12, 2010, 06:17:23 am
Is there a mean to change the color of some wall blocks (I've seen you're talking about it juste before) ?
Cause here is the thing :
I've made a (red) Kaolinite arena, with (shiny white) Marcasite walls and statues, and some (darkgray) Charcoal walls ...
But nothing is colored ...
I've seen it's possible (CF the ScreenShots topic, with the darkblue Obsidian(?) walls , but ... how to ?
[EDIT] seeing the previous post now ...
where is it ? (how do I change the colors, to have red Kaolinite ?)
is there any pack of textures made by anyone (cause there are only 3-4 apcks in the wiki, and none seem to be about it) with textures for it ?
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 12, 2010, 06:23:13 am
2. create xml file detailing their use
3. add xml file to top of index
No, there's not a way to simply permit everything recolored by material...in Stonesense.
Jadael did (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43260.msg936382;topicseen#msg936382)
Not sure to what extent it's implemented, check it out.
Post by: tompliss on February 12, 2010, 06:45:46 am
Code: [Select]
<block sprite= 11 >
<!-- wall feat? -->
<terrain value= 219 />
<!-- wall feat? -->
<terrain value= 335 />
<!-- vein wall -->
<terrain value= 440 />
<material value="Stone">
<subtype value="KAOLINITE"/>
<subtype value="BAUXITE"/>
</material>
</block>I put it in the "material stones" XML, but didn't work ...is this one only for "not constructed" walls ?
couldn't understand ...
i'm trying the Jadael stones pack now, thanks ^^
[EDIT] didn't see the "vein wall" comment ... -_-
But why are there 2 "wall feat" comments ?
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 12, 2010, 06:48:22 am
...thinking on this, the present MaterialWalls.xml should not actually ever show the alternate gold/silver walls...?
I'm not sure.
Post by: Spong on February 12, 2010, 07:21:07 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then I saw Jadael's work - amazing stuff. My only beef is that the Olivine isn't dark enough for my taste. Also I tried installing it but it won't work for some reason - I added the .xml lines to the index file but still just shows the default textures.
I reinstalled and its working just fine now.
Also - I've recently developed a habit of constructing my forts out of Olivine which renders a nice dark green in VisualFortress and Khazad, any plans for more coloured walls in later versions of Stonesense?
We do support walls of any color or texture really, the only thing needed is that someone draws some Olivine walls :) After that it's just a matter of adding them to the config system.
What Visfort and khazad do is to take one default texture, then shade that to different colors. We have been playing with that for Stonesense too (Japa did some really promising work), and white it's a cheap solution it will never look as good as if we actually drew some Olivine walls.
@Kaelem Gaen: I talked with peterix the other day, and he said dfHack should be compatible with 40D17 now. But there might be some bugs. That's why I'm a little reluctant to release it until we know it works (at least close to) 100%.
But like you pointed out, it's in the SVN if anyone feels adventurous :)
Post by: Arucard on February 12, 2010, 08:30:38 am
So, if I were to make a new folder, named "items" for instance, and add items/index.txt to the main index would it be recognized? Would Stonesense pick up a definition for a "White Chalcedony scepter" or whatever it may be? Or would even a generic "scepter" work?
Post by: Octopusfluff on February 12, 2010, 12:21:06 pm
It isn't clear how soon it'll be viable, but at least it seems to be coming, so if you did want to go ahead and make some art, no harm... just remember it won't be usable right away.
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 12, 2010, 03:59:47 pm
Post by: kaypy on February 13, 2010, 01:26:13 am
Post by: smd on February 13, 2010, 02:29:23 pm
I figure having a clickable interactive GUI in stonsense, relaying commands as keystrokes to background-running DF isn't possible?
Post by: Thorik on February 13, 2010, 02:47:43 pm
Post by: crash2455 on February 13, 2010, 02:54:25 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 13, 2010, 03:26:09 pm
Post by: smd on February 13, 2010, 03:52:41 pm
or maybe forget the gui?
If only Stonesense could track the DF cursor.. and DF could accept key commands while minimised.
My question is: if and why is this not possible?
I am completely unaware of the technical details involved, I'm a pixel artist, not a programmer.
Post by: Maxxeh on February 13, 2010, 05:58:14 pm
I just had a huge raid, where there were casualties from both sides laying all over the place, and blood ALL OVER my entrance area.
in stonesense it was an empty landscape :'(
do these things count as items I assume? as thats the only thing I'd seriously want right now more than anything!
and yes I just joined the forums to say that :D
Post by: crash2455 on February 13, 2010, 06:09:16 pm
If there's one thing I REALLY want, it's blood and corpses, as macabre as it is!
I just had a huge raid, where there were casualties from both sides laying all over the place, and blood ALL OVER my entrance area.
in stonesense it was an empty landscape :'(
do these things count as items I assume? as thats the only thing I'd seriously want right now more than anything!
and yes I just joined the forums to say that :D
Very much want.
I've got a feeling that will be handled after "things" are finally handled.
Post by: Thorik on February 13, 2010, 06:50:20 pm
Post by: peterix on February 13, 2010, 07:49:08 pm
Things got moving in the DFHack land again though :)
Post by: Maxxeh on February 13, 2010, 09:27:12 pm
oh, well its not that important, use mike maydays graphic pack.
With an attitude like that, why play with stonesense at all?
Post by: Jadael on February 14, 2010, 04:34:28 am
Post by: mizipzor on February 14, 2010, 08:57:31 am
Last night I wrote a sort of proof-of-concept tool for interfacing. One thing I hate is cutting down trees. Boring, time consuming and doesnt pose much of a challenge. Besides, a few years into the fortress I spend way to much time just looking around the map for more trees. >.<
My function scans all the (visible) tiles i the world, if there is a tree on it its designated to be chopped down. I plan to expand this to work with stone as well (dig out all discovered copper, for example). A limit will also be added, the first time I ran it 5580 trees were designated to be chopped down. :D
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 14, 2010, 09:05:04 am
Say I set in the job manager a request for 1 copper table.
First, it should Check stockpiles to see if there are any copper bars.
-If there are untasked copper bars, check for fuel.
--If there is fuel, set job in forge and set both the bars and fuel as tasked so they are not used for anything else.
--If there is no fuel, check map for untasked coal or wood.
---If fuel-capable item is found, burn/process for fuel and set job.
-If no copper bars are present, check for copper ore.
--If copper ore is present, check for fuel.
---Etc...
-If no copper bars or ore are present, check map for exposed, unsmoothed copper vein.
--If copper vein is found, zoom to copper vein and prompt player, "Is this ok to dig?"
---If player indicates yes, designate for digging and delay job until digging complete, restart from beginning.
You get the idea... same would work for trees. If no wood is found and I asked for a wooden chair, designate a tree for choppin. Preferably the closest tree to the workshop which will do the job.
Post by: mizipzor on February 14, 2010, 11:15:59 am
Also, there a probably a ton of those subjective decisions where you would want to ask the player. Like the last known iron block seems fine to be mined, but removing it would give attacking forces a shortcut into the fortress. Or there is water on the other side which would, in case of mining, flood that level of the fortress.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 14, 2010, 11:44:52 am
Post by: mizipzor on February 14, 2010, 11:54:39 am
Now that I think about it though, depending on the tool that traverse the decision tree and applies the logic for what items needs be gathered in order to have something built, it can save the memory adress (the pointer) for every item thats dedicated in this way. Then, when another job requests another iron bar (for example) and we have saved the memory adress of the first on (its already dedicated to something) we cant consider it as available. Could work.
Post by: The Doctor on February 14, 2010, 01:03:13 pm
Post by: mizipzor on February 14, 2010, 01:10:11 pm
Post by: Imofexios on February 14, 2010, 01:51:22 pm
********** *********
* * * DF *
* Stene * * comm *
* sense * * ands *
* * * Window *
********** *********
Stonesense would work as it is but have highlighted square to act as same as in DF main screen?
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on February 15, 2010, 04:07:29 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push-Pull_strategy
Their have already been some good threads on this concept
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=46325.0
I particularly like this one because of its ease of use and ease of implementation. Stockpiles already have a partial 'pull' ability (only able to pull items that exist), if shops had designated source stockpiles and the stockpiles had source workshops from which they can initiate work orders we would essentially have what the Japanese call Kanban.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kanban
This would indeed be 11 on the awesome scale as you can command the entire production chain with final product orders and it would all be done by simply establishing these 'pull from' connections which are already possible with stockpiles so very little needs to change conceptually. Also it avoids the ambitiousness issue and decision tree explosions, the player designates ware to draw the resources and this could easily be a list that's cascaded down. Lastly having an ore stockpile be able to pull from an actual ore vein is an excellent idea and an excellent way to bring that step into the system.
Post by: mizipzor on February 15, 2010, 06:51:32 am
Would this be possible?
********** *********
* * * DF *
* Stene * * comm *
* sense * * ands *
* * * Window *
********** *********
Stonesense would work as it is but have highlighted square to act as same as in DF main screen?
Thats actually what I aim to investigate. The main concern is of course all the funny sort of corruptions that it could cause if more than one process attempts to read/write the same memory location at once. DFHack manages this to an extent by freezing the Dwarf Fortress process while the data is manipulated, this keeps the game itself out of the loop while we have our fun.
However, two 3rd party apps that simultaneously work with the memory could get quite unstable. The best way to handle this is probably to have all processes attach through the same DFHack DLL so that DFHack can queue all requests. Although, I dont think the current SHM bridge allow for more than one attached process.
But its a nice theory and, as I said, is one I plan to bash around a bit.
Post by: smd on February 15, 2010, 11:16:01 am
Post by: Deon on February 15, 2010, 11:26:11 am
Post by: Greiger on February 15, 2010, 12:04:48 pm
Not to mention that it would remove stonesense mouse support because DF would not be able to sync to the location the cursor was moved to by the mouse because no keyboard input happened.
Besides, I thought Toady was generally against a third party GUI for DF at any rate. Visualisers are fine, GUIs might grow so large as to receive hate mail or folks refusing to play a new version unless he 'fixes' DF to work with the program after an update.
Post by: Footkerchief on February 15, 2010, 12:11:10 pm
The problem is, you can't "send something to DF", because you can't make it to read your actions. You have to work with memory as I understand.
Yes you can. Lifevis (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/) pipes keyboard input to DF, as has been brought up many times in this thread. I mean, it probably does achieve that by "working with memory," but I don't see how it's at all true that "you can't send something to DF."
Post by: Belal on February 15, 2010, 01:14:33 pm
The problem is, you can't "send something to DF", because you can't make it to read your actions. You have to work with memory as I understand.
Yes you can. Lifevis (http://code.google.com/p/dwarvis/) pipes keyboard input to DF, as has been brought up many times in this thread. I mean, it probably does achieve that by "working with memory," but I don't see how it's at all true that "you can't send something to DF."
DF hack has had the ability to send keystrokes to the DF window since the start of december, that is how I was writing custom names and professions on linux in the DFHack port of Dwarf Therapist. You could make a completely new interface right now using the same technique if you wanted to take the time to do so. You could add the lifevis functionality of just mirroring the input to DF in stonesense with very little effort.
Greiger, you are incorrect with all of your statements, you can already have stonesense track the df window, and it is not difficult at all to do the reverse, moving the DF window (which does not have to have the cursor visible to move) when the stonesense window moves. No keyboard input is necessary.
Again all of this functionality has been in DF-hack for quite a while now, someone just needs to use it.
Post by: Greiger on February 15, 2010, 03:00:40 pm
Post by: Truean on February 15, 2010, 06:49:50 pm
I would like to ask if there is a way to rotate stonesense.
I have a 15 level drop that is nearly a straight cliff (sure it has some ramps but meh)
Only problem is that it is on the south of the screen and thus not at the optimum angle for stonesense viewing of the cliffface.
I would love terraced villas carved out of this area visible on stonesense as if it were a northcliff
Post by: crash2455 on February 15, 2010, 06:53:41 pm
Quote from: README.txt
Enter: Rotate view 90 degrees
Post by: Truean on February 15, 2010, 08:05:54 pm
Post by: Sukasa on February 16, 2010, 11:04:27 am
Post by: Spong on February 16, 2010, 11:47:46 am
I made this:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then I saw Jadael's work - amazing stuff. My only beef is that the Olivine isn't dark enough for my taste. Also I tried installing it but it won't work for some reason - I added the .xml lines to the index file but still just shows the default textures.
I reinstalled and its working just fine now.
Also - I've recently developed a habit of constructing my forts out of Olivine which renders a nice dark green in VisualFortress and Khazad, any plans for more coloured walls in later versions of Stonesense?
We do support walls of any color or texture really, the only thing needed is that someone draws some Olivine walls :) After that it's just a matter of adding them to the config system.
What Visfort and khazad do is to take one default texture, then shade that to different colors. We have been playing with that for Stonesense too (Japa did some really promising work), and white it's a cheap solution it will never look as good as if we actually drew some Olivine walls.
@Kaelem Gaen: I talked with peterix the other day, and he said dfHack should be compatible with 40D17 now. But there might be some bugs. That's why I'm a little reluctant to release it until we know it works (at least close to) 100%.
But like you pointed out, it's in the SVN if anyone feels adventurous :)
Also, cannot get Jadael's pack working at all, I did exactly as he described in this post:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/jadael_stones.zip
Put all my stones together into a mod. Unzip to /terrain/ and add JadaelWalls.xml and JadaelFloors.xml to the top of the terrain index file.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Still have to do ramps! I'm working on it!
edit: Ok now for me the main problem is I can't get Jadael's pack working - I've edited the Olivine walls in his pack to be how I want them so if I can get it to work then problem is solved but it seems like I can't get any pack to work with SS - I change the entry in the index.txts but it doesn't do anything. :(
Anyone have any ideas? This: "Unzip to /terrain/ and add JadaelWalls.xml and JadaelFloors.xml to the top of the terrain index file."
Does not work.
Post by: EatMoreHippo on February 17, 2010, 01:15:05 am
Post by: Deon on February 17, 2010, 01:16:46 am
Post by: EatMoreHippo on February 17, 2010, 01:22:16 am
Which version do you use? Is it launched and you fort is loaded?I've tried both versions. All I see is the initial page asking to press f9 and with the logo, then it immediately goes to a black page with the text "could not find df process." I use windows xp with sp3 installed if that makes a difference.
EDIT: Also, if it isn't clear I've only just installed the game, I haven't generated a world or fortress yet.
Post by: Neruz on February 17, 2010, 02:03:58 am
EDIT: Also, if it isn't clear I've only just installed the game, I haven't generated a world or fortress yet.
That would be the problem.
Post by: Moontayle on February 17, 2010, 08:32:49 am
Post by: kaypy on February 17, 2010, 10:07:22 am
Is there a minimum screen size? I run 1440 x 900 and wanted to set up DF and Stonesense to run side by side but setting the resolution to 720x900 gave me a "unable to set graphics mode" error.You need to shrink it a little vertically so the titlebar and stuff will fit.
Post by: kaypy on February 17, 2010, 10:15:57 am
Anyone have any ideas? This: "Unzip to /terrain/ and add JadaelWalls.xml and JadaelFloors.xml to the top of the terrain index file."Obviously the problem is that your computer hates you.
Does not work.
But if you post the contents of the index.txt files you've changed, a directory listing so we know where stuff has actually wound up, and maybe anything relevent looking from stonesense.log, then we may be able to force it to behave itself...
Post by: Spong on February 17, 2010, 10:37:24 am
index.txt reads:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stonesense directory: Computer>Local Disk (C:)>Program Files (x86)>stonesense
JadaelFloors.xml, JadaelWalls.xml, jadael-blocks.png and jadaelfloors.png are all in:
Computer>Local Disk (C:)>Program Files (x86)>stonesense>terrain
Stonesense.log says:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Computer says no.
Anyone have any ideas? This: "Unzip to /terrain/ and add JadaelWalls.xml and JadaelFloors.xml to the top of the terrain index file."Obviously the problem is that your computer hates you.
Does not work.
But if you post the contents of the index.txt files you've changed, a directory listing so we know where stuff has actually wound up, and maybe anything relevent looking from stonesense.log, then we may be able to force it to behave itself...
Post by: EatMoreHippo on February 17, 2010, 10:51:37 am
So how do I generate the fortress? Am I supposed to put the SS download into a normal DF folder with the fortress already made?EDIT: Also, if it isn't clear I've only just installed the game, I haven't generated a world or fortress yet.
That would be the problem.
Post by: Greiger on February 17, 2010, 11:09:50 am
I do think it hates me sometimes lol.
index.txt reads:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stonesense directory: Computer>Local Disk (C:)>Program Files (x86)>stonesense
JadaelFloors.xml, JadaelWalls.xml, jadael-blocks.png and jadaelfloors.png are all in:
Computer>Local Disk (C:)>Program Files (x86)>stonesense>terrain
Stonesense.log says:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Computer says no.
Maybe you need a space between the entries. But I'm not sure.
I got my terrain index.txt like this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Might work if you just copy that into the .txt. If it doesn't there might be something funky with the locations.
EDIT: Yea looking again you definately need a space or something between the entries, if you look closely it's thinking "JadaelFloors.xmlJadaelWalls.xmlMaterialWalls.xml" is all just one file, and it can't find it because there is no file with that crazy name.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 17, 2010, 11:10:55 am
So how do I generate the fortress? Am I supposed to put the SS download into a normal DF folder with the fortress already made?Well first you run dwarf fortress, generate a world, pick an embark location, and embark. Only then can you use stonesense. Stonesense is just a visualizer which reads your fort from dwarf fortress and shows it purdy.
Post by: Spong on February 17, 2010, 11:22:11 am
I do think it hates me sometimes lol.
index.txt reads:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Stonesense directory: Computer>Local Disk (C:)>Program Files (x86)>stonesense
JadaelFloors.xml, JadaelWalls.xml, jadael-blocks.png and jadaelfloors.png are all in:
Computer>Local Disk (C:)>Program Files (x86)>stonesense>terrain
Stonesense.log says:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Computer says no.
Maybe you need a space between the entries. But I'm not sure.
I got my terrain index.txt like this.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Might work if you just copy that into the .txt. If it doesn't there might be something funky with the locations.
EDIT: Yea looking again you definately need a space or something between the entries, if you look closely it's thinking "JadaelFloors.xmlJadaelWalls.xmlMaterialWalls.xml" is all just one file, and it can't find it because there is no file with that crazy name.
Yay it worked!
I copied your quoted index text and it worked :). Thanks very much!
Post by: Greiger on February 17, 2010, 11:37:04 am
Post by: KrunkSplein on February 17, 2010, 02:28:27 pm
Post by: LegoLord on February 17, 2010, 04:38:39 pm
Neither. You run SS after opening up any fort. You don't generate fortresses, you build them after selecting a site on which to build - for which you need to generate a world, which is done in DF. SS is a third party visualizer. It does not hack DF in any way.So how do I generate the fortress? Am I supposed to put the SS download into a normal DF folder with the fortress already made?EDIT: Also, if it isn't clear I've only just installed the game, I haven't generated a world or fortress yet.
That would be the problem.
Post by: kaypy on February 17, 2010, 06:08:30 pm
index.txt reads:OK, for some reason index.txt wound up a unix format file. The entries are supposed to be on separate lines, but notepad (I assume that's what you are using) doesn't recognize the unix newline characters.
JadaelFloors.xmlJadaelWalls.xmlMaterialWalls.xmlMaterialFloors.xmlWalls.xmlFloors.xmlDefaultWalls.xmDefaultFloors.xml
Post by: kaypy on February 17, 2010, 06:11:43 pm
So how do I generate the fortress? Am I supposed to put the SS download into a normal DF folder with the fortress already made?For the record, Stonesense is best off in a folder of its own. This can be a subdirectory of DF if you like, but if you start mixing the DF files with the Stonesense files then there's a chance you may overwrite something you needed...
Usage is:
Start DF
Get a game up and running
Start Stonesense
Post by: EatMoreHippo on February 17, 2010, 10:30:50 pm
Thanks, it's working now. Forgive my noobiness.So how do I generate the fortress? Am I supposed to put the SS download into a normal DF folder with the fortress already made?For the record, Stonesense is best off in a folder of its own. This can be a subdirectory of DF if you like, but if you start mixing the DF files with the Stonesense files then there's a chance you may overwrite something you needed...
Usage is:
Start DF
Get a game up and running
Start Stonesense
Post by: Moontayle on February 18, 2010, 08:07:43 am
Is there a minimum screen size? I run 1440 x 900 and wanted to set up DF and Stonesense to run side by side but setting the resolution to 720x900 gave me a "unable to set graphics mode" error.You need to shrink it a little vertically so the titlebar and stuff will fit.
Had to chop it down to 700x700. d16 doesn't seem to like this resolution though so I might have to do top/bottom split screen. Or maybe I just need a bigger screen... 50" maybe.
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2010, 08:57:02 am
Post by: KrunkSplein on February 18, 2010, 11:36:06 am
Post by: Deon on February 18, 2010, 11:37:46 am
Post by: KrunkSplein on February 18, 2010, 04:10:14 pm
And why do you run d16 fullscreen? You can run it in window and drag-resize it with your mouse to fill the whole screen. At least it works for me this way.
Because A) I prefer the more immerse fullscreen experience, and B) d16 kills Aero
Post by: soul4hdwn on February 18, 2010, 09:16:51 pm
Because A) I prefer the more immerse fullscreen experience, and B) d16 kills Aero
DF never killed aero style windows for me on either vista or win 7... and drag, resizing has the exact same effect as full screened except for 1 tile missing in height that you can miss safely but doesn't matter because D16 adapts to whatever new side the window is.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 18, 2010, 09:17:31 pm
Yeah no problems here either with aero for any versionBecause A) I prefer the more immerse fullscreen experience, and B) d16 kills Aero
DF never killed aero style windows for me on either vista or win 7... and drag, resizing has the exact same effect as full screened except for 1 tile missing in height that you can miss safely but doesn't matter because D16 adapts to whatever new side the window is.
Post by: Deon on February 19, 2010, 04:05:25 am
You're probably doing it wrong. You are able to resize the window to fill the whole screen without any parts of windows UI being visible.And why do you run d16 fullscreen? You can run it in window and drag-resize it with your mouse to fill the whole screen. At least it works for me this way.
Because A) I prefer the more immerse fullscreen experience, and B) d16 kills Aero
Post by: KrunkSplein on February 19, 2010, 03:52:44 pm
In any case, once I f11 out to windowed version, I can run stonesense just fine. It is truly beautiful.
I just wish that DF could give me a hint as to the location of the magma on the map - I don't want to have a maze of crisscrossed tunnels marring an otherwise well thought out fortress.
Post by: mizipzor on February 19, 2010, 04:45:43 pm
Don't know what to tell you - I'm just using the ranting rodent prepackaged setup: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1684 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1684). And for future reference, "you're probably doing it wrong" isn't really useful advice.
In any case, once I f11 out to windowed version, I can run stonesense just fine. It is truly beautiful.
I just wish that DF could give me a hint as to the location of the magma on the map - I don't want to have a maze of crisscrossed tunnels marring an otherwise well thought out fortress.
There are reveal tools you know. If they feel to cheaty, something quick and dirty could be hacked together to reveal only the magma. Or some other arbitrary restriction.
Post by: KrunkSplein on February 19, 2010, 05:07:04 pm
Post by: belannaer on February 19, 2010, 05:36:14 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 19, 2010, 08:58:48 pm
looking at this again, it should be doable procedurally to mesh things into this sort of order. {[ITEM]->[GRASP/STANCE]/(extermity)->(connections toward body)} in order bottom to top, in back, STANCES before GRASPSSpoiler: master draw order-bold is in this animation (click to show/hide)
{[LOWERBODY]->[UPPERBODY]->[NECK]->[HEAD]}
{(connections from body)->(extremity)->[ITEM]->[GRASP/STANCE]} for the "front"ward bits.
(bodypart)->(equipment on that bodypart, UNDER->ARMOR->OVER->COVER) unless it has a STEP, in which case draw it after all those bps/equipments it STEPS over.
Shields would not work with it, though, nor would pincer-held items, nor prone/non-upright critters. hmm...shields are easily excepted. Pincers are just where one finds out GRASP parts need separating, and prones/not uprights can just be made to have their body draw order anterior to posterior or vice versa,like we're going distal to proximal or the other way when needed.
Post by: mizipzor on February 21, 2010, 06:35:24 am
I didnt change anything, just attempted to run a build just after a check out (and running the cmake scripts).
Output:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Edit: Solved. I was a bit to literal when reading the compile guide. The allegro folder got a bad name:
Quote
Unpack allegro into the stonesense directory
(so you have a stonesense/allegro-mingw-4.2.2 directory)
mingw seems like a bad name when you compile with visual studio. :D
Ill leave the post here in case anyone searches. If you use Visual Studio 2008, make sure that you have the folder:
Quote
stonesense/allegro-msvc80-4.2.2
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2010, 06:56:34 am
for MSVC, you just open the project file that's there.
Post by: mizipzor on February 21, 2010, 06:59:24 am
actually, the cmake scripts are only needed for MINGW.
for MSVC, you just open the project file that's there.
...which I totally missed >.< it compiles and runs fine now though so everythings great. :)
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on February 21, 2010, 10:51:46 am
says something about png.h not included or missing, or something along those lines only happens omn loadpng.h and uh... regpng.h ... I think.
Post by: Daimyon on February 21, 2010, 02:13:58 pm
"The Application failed to initialize properly (0xc0150002). Click OK to terminate the application."
I've looked around a bit and all I could find regarding the error was OS's not starting up after being shut down before systems updates could be completed. I am using MayDay's tileset and nothing else, mod wise. Any ideas?
Post by: mizipzor on February 22, 2010, 03:47:04 pm
Greetings all, I downloaded Stonesense today and- after opening DF and continuing to play, attempted to run SS and got an error.
"The Application failed to initialize properly (0xc0150002). Click OK to terminate the application."
I've looked around a bit and all I could find regarding the error was OS's not starting up after being shut down before systems updates could be completed. I am using MayDay's tileset and nothing else, mod wise. Any ideas?
I get the same error (same hexcode) when I compile and run Stonesense from the solution file directly under the root (after its been converted to VS2008 format). Its before the first line in main() is reached so something must have gone terribly wrong. If I compile and run using the cmake scripts however, it works perfectly.
On an entirely separate note, Ive taken the time to import the entire svn repos into github. All metadata is preserved from commits so that proper credit is given. I just dont like the feeling of hacking away without version control. Since it takes quite some time to convert the tree, anyone else wanting git can happyily head over to my github (http://github.com/mizipzor/stonesense).
Post by: Footkerchief on February 22, 2010, 05:05:49 pm
looking at this again, it should be doable procedurally to mesh things into this sort of order. {[ITEM]->[GRASP/STANCE]/(extermity)->(connections toward body)} in order bottom to top, in back, STANCES before GRASPS
{[LOWERBODY]->[UPPERBODY]->[NECK]->[HEAD]}
{(connections from body)->(extremity)->[ITEM]->[GRASP/STANCE]} for the "front"ward bits.
(bodypart)->(equipment on that bodypart, UNDER->ARMOR->OVER->COVER) unless it has a STEP, in which case draw it after all those bps/equipments it STEPS over.
Shields would not work with it, though, nor would pincer-held items, nor prone/non-upright critters. hmm...shields are easily excepted. Pincers are just where one finds out GRASP parts need separating, and prones/not uprights can just be made to have their body draw order anterior to posterior or vice versa,like we're going distal to proximal or the other way when needed.
If you're trying to come up with draw-order logic that will work on any creature, I don't think that's practical. People will inevitably come up with a creature for which it doesn't work (or they might just want to use a different stance).
Post by: JanusTwoface on February 22, 2010, 05:14:05 pm
Here's the copy I'm using:
http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/output/Memory.xml
Post by: Retro on February 22, 2010, 05:20:51 pm
I'm also planning on recolouring the constructed stone object so that they look like the in-game colours ('realistic' looks bother me because then what looks cohesive in DF looks messy in SS), since I don't believe that's been released either, so I'll be posting that when I'm done and then asking for help on how to insert it into the game when I've finished with that.
Post by: lordcooper on February 22, 2010, 05:29:13 pm
What sort of FPS hit should I expect from this?
Post by: soul4hdwn on February 22, 2010, 05:48:34 pm
This looks amazing.
What sort of FPS hit should I expect from this?
depends on the refesh rate and your computer. DF would only be hit due to SS taking up a slight chunk of processing. i get about 2 to 14 fps hit with a 5x5 map with 100 population and minimal water and stone interaction.
Post by: lordcooper on February 22, 2010, 05:53:18 pm
I generally GET around 14 fps under those conditions.
Post by: CobaltKobold on February 22, 2010, 07:52:02 pm
If I get it right it should be possible to get all the bilaterally-symmetric vertebrates with the one I was considering, if you have all limbs as branching off the spine. I don't think anything has radial bodyplans yet (I don't even know if it's possible in DF yet!)looking at this again, it should be doable procedurally to mesh things into this sort of order. {[ITEM]->[GRASP/STANCE]/(extermity)->(connections toward body)} in order bottom to top, in back, STANCES before GRASPS
{[LOWERBODY]->[UPPERBODY]->[NECK]->[HEAD]}
{(connections from body)->(extremity)->[ITEM]->[GRASP/STANCE]} for the "front"ward bits.
(bodypart)->(equipment on that bodypart, UNDER->ARMOR->OVER->COVER) unless it has a STEP, in which case draw it after all those bps/equipments it STEPS over.
Shields would not work with it, though, nor would pincer-held items, nor prone/non-upright critters. hmm...shields are easily excepted. Pincers are just where one finds out GRASP parts need separating, and prones/not uprights can just be made to have their body draw order anterior to posterior or vice versa,like we're going distal to proximal or the other way when needed.
If you're trying to come up with draw-order logic that will work on any creature, I don't think that's practical. People will inevitably come up with a creature for which it doesn't work (or they might just want to use a different stance).
I mean, if it's really too much trouble, you find the ones that don't work and give a custom draworder in the same place you define the attach points for parts, if you weren't using a full-size sprite per part to get them to be placed right simply.
I'm sure it won't be possible to make a good wrestling imager simply because it is possible to do crazy/impossible things with your joints and theirs, but most of the rest of the normal actions should be feasible.
Post by: darkflagrance on February 23, 2010, 02:07:13 am
Given that most people will start out playing vanilla, it might be a suitable goal to devote most attention to visualizing the things normally found in there, and while you would consider mods, they would be of lower priority.
I'm sure that modders can live with their unusual, bizarre creations happening to act in a slightly glitchy way.
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on February 23, 2010, 01:09:55 pm
Post by: peterix on February 23, 2010, 01:18:46 pm
Well the memory you gave me sorta worked, I'm getting yellow blocks in a lot of places.... is that a side effect of missing stuff or some change in the Memory.xml?Yes, the building names are now determined by an automatic tool instead of done by hand and they are a bit different. The svn version of stonesense should have the proper building .xml files.
Here : http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/#svn/trunk/buildings
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on February 23, 2010, 05:02:29 pm
Post by: peterix on February 23, 2010, 06:02:13 pm
Nope putting in the new XMLs (and the includes) didn't work, I still get yellow blocks everwhere, did I miss something else. (I have no luck building from source as mentioned up top)Ok, then tell me a few things first.
What version of DF on which OS?
I'm still updating the memory file for 40d18, so if you use that, there might be bad things happening.
Also, what do you mean by 'yellow boxes everywhere'? Is it just buildings or the terrain as well?(probably the first thing I should've asked about)
Anyway, I'll try to update the current stonesense svn trunk for d18 support.
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on February 23, 2010, 09:18:31 pm
It seems to be focused around Workshops (Pumps as well) and over a Zone I got set for dumping.. as well as any bridge on the fortress. Axels seem to be yellow blocks as well, um ... hold on let me check again... Hatch Covers,... beds, so essentially anything that's built/designated... 'cept roads, floors and walls (ramps seem to work too)
So no the terrains seem to show up fine, I do have the updated ramps in it from one of the packs, and I think I put in the wall replacements
EDIT: wait may have saved the things wrong... let me get them via the SVN trunk and try again I think I see my mistakes.
EDIT2: yep I saved it wrong I must have missed the rest of the webpage code when I did "save link as" off the XML links... it's working now, and sorry for all that.
Post by: peterix on February 23, 2010, 09:29:01 pm
I've done a quick build of stonesense with D17 and D18 offsets already included: http://dethware.org/StonesenseD18.zip
From the short testing I did, it seems to be fine.
There's also a Linux binary inside for the *nix crowd (make sure you have allegro 4.2 and libpng14). Edit: I forgot to mention that the Linux binary is a 64bit one ~_~
Post by: Retro on February 25, 2010, 12:36:02 pm
Question: At this point in Stonesense's evolution, is it entirely up to the users to fill out the last few missing sprites? Currently using a lot of metal ramps which are showing up as regular stone ramps; should I just go ahead and make my own, or will they eventually be forthcoming?
I'm also planning on recolouring the constructed stone object so that they look like the in-game colours ('realistic' looks bother me because then what looks cohesive in DF looks messy in SS), since I don't believe that's been released either, so I'll be posting that when I'm done and then asking for help on how to insert it into the game when I've finished with that.
Just re-asking this to see if I can get an answer. I'm not new to spriting, I'm just not sure how to lay it out and set up the .xmls and so on. Maybe I'll set up the recolours first and make some metal ramps and then come back to see how to set it up after.
Post by: Belal on February 25, 2010, 01:05:16 pm
Question: At this point in Stonesense's evolution, is it entirely up to the users to fill out the last few missing sprites? Currently using a lot of metal ramps which are showing up as regular stone ramps; should I just go ahead and make my own, or will they eventually be forthcoming?
I'm also planning on recolouring the constructed stone object so that they look like the in-game colours ('realistic' looks bother me because then what looks cohesive in DF looks messy in SS), since I don't believe that's been released either, so I'll be posting that when I'm done and then asking for help on how to insert it into the game when I've finished with that.
Just re-asking this to see if I can get an answer. I'm not new to spriting, I'm just not sure how to lay it out and set up the .xmls and so on. Maybe I'll set up the recolours first and make some metal ramps and then come back to see how to set it up after.
might not be completely updated, but it should get you started
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Stonesense_%28visualizer%29#Modding_With_Stonesense
Post by: jonask84 on February 26, 2010, 02:53:56 am
Question: At this point in Stonesense's evolution, is it entirely up to the users to fill out the last few missing sprites? Currently using a lot of metal ramps which are showing up as regular stone ramps; should I just go ahead and make my own, or will they eventually be forthcoming?
I'm also planning on recolouring the constructed stone object so that they look like the in-game colours ('realistic' looks bother me because then what looks cohesive in DF looks messy in SS), since I don't believe that's been released either, so I'll be posting that when I'm done and then asking for help on how to insert it into the game when I've finished with that.
Hey Retro, first off: Great job on those forts you've made, they're amazing :)
And to fill your question: I think you got the wrong frame here dude, Stonesense IS the users, and was pretty much made by the users in the first place. I wrote the initial clumsy code, but after that countless talented community members has made it the great project it is today. So in that respect; yes, it is up to us users, in the respect that there is no company or payed team that will do it for us :)
As people submit submit graphics or code it is up to us official devs to pull this into the standard SS graphics set, and alternative sets can be uploaded to the Stonesense Content Repository.
So if you wanna have a whack at some of it, I would be glad to help you with any questions you have :) Because, as Belal pointed out, the tutorial isn't as filled-out as it ought to be.
Cheers mate!
Post by: dyze on February 26, 2010, 10:14:08 am
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2010, 10:18:10 am
but some need a bit of polishing before getting released.
Post by: mizipzor on February 26, 2010, 10:42:58 am
any word on new features/new version?
If you want to stay bleeding edge and are curious about the new additions to Stonesense, I recommend you learn how to compile the source found on the svn repository. Its actually really easy if you just want to compile the program yourself, since you wont change the code, no programming skills are required.
Post by: dennislp3 on February 26, 2010, 10:53:49 am
Post by: mizipzor on February 26, 2010, 11:04:22 am
bout the SVN.....I have compiled many SVNs for different things plenty of times......but this one baffles me....i cant figure out where it all goes wrong >.>
I would be happy to offer some guidance, either state the errors or hop by #dfhack on freenode. In about an hour or so Ill be home from work and will indulge myself in some df happiness. Ill be in the channel by then. :)
Post by: Retro on February 26, 2010, 11:06:03 am
Hey Retro, first off: Great job on those forts you've made, they're amazing :)
And to fill your question: I think you got the wrong frame here dude, Stonesense IS the users, and was pretty much made by the users in the first place. I wrote the initial clumsy code, but after that countless talented community members has made it the great project it is today. So in that respect; yes, it is up to us users, in the respect that there is no company or payed team that will do it for us :)
As people submit submit graphics or code it is up to us official devs to pull this into the standard SS graphics set, and alternative sets can be uploaded to the Stonesense Content Repository.
So if you wanna have a whack at some of it, I would be glad to help you with any questions you have :) Because, as Belal pointed out, the tutorial isn't as filled-out as it ought to be.
Cheers mate!
Hehe, it's all the same single fort, but thank you. I was mostly asking since there was some stuff like floors and walls that kind of came 'with' Stonesense, as initially added by I assume Solifuge, and I was mostly checking if that'd continue to happen. So I'm thinking (since I don't think the wiki stuff helped me >_>) that I'm just going to make my recoloured sprites in the same grid layout for floors/walls/etc. that they currently have and then post it here and get advice on how to get SS to read them from there. Once I have them all done I doubt it'll be too much trouble.
Post by: jonask84 on February 27, 2010, 10:14:54 am
Hehe, it's all the same single fort, but thank you. I was mostly asking since there was some stuff like floors and walls that kind of came 'with' Stonesense, as initially added by I assume Solifuge, and I was mostly checking if that'd continue to happen. So I'm thinking (since I don't think the wiki stuff helped me >_>) that I'm just going to make my recoloured sprites in the same grid layout for floors/walls/etc. that they currently have and then post it here and get advice on how to get SS to read them from there. Once I have them all done I doubt it'll be too much trouble.
Most of the wall and floor stuff is Solifuge, yes. But like me I think he has a lot to deal with in his life these days (think he just got a new job he's really excited about) so I think it'll be some time till we see any massive contributions from him. But there are tons of other people chipping in, and every little bit helps :) Like I said the Content Repository is the best way to share home made stuff, and then we pull in stuff from there to the official release.
If you produce some floor sprites, I'll certainly do my best to help you integrate them :)
Post by: dennislp3 on March 01, 2010, 10:04:59 pm
bout the SVN.....I have compiled many SVNs for different things plenty of times......but this one baffles me....i cant figure out where it all goes wrong >.>
I would be happy to offer some guidance, either state the errors or hop by #dfhack on freenode. In about an hour or so Ill be home from work and will indulge myself in some df happiness. Ill be in the channel by then. :)
I am prolly missing some super important technical detail.....but wouldnt it just be easiest if there was a stable version (eg. Granite) and a development version.....since this can be used in an archived format and does not need to be installed wouldnt making a dev version be jokingly easy (with of course exceptions like my inability to figure out where I am going wrong -.-)
I mean atleast a Dev version for each new 40d## version would make sense....and in this case that would mean both 40d17 and 40d18
Post by: mizipzor on March 02, 2010, 03:13:29 am
And for the same reason, Im not really sure how to respond. A stable and development branch wouldnt really help someone trying to figure out how to compile it.
Post by: Belal on March 02, 2010, 09:22:25 am
bout the SVN.....I have compiled many SVNs for different things plenty of times......but this one baffles me....i cant figure out where it all goes wrong >.>
I would be happy to offer some guidance, either state the errors or hop by #dfhack on freenode. In about an hour or so Ill be home from work and will indulge myself in some df happiness. Ill be in the channel by then. :)
I am prolly missing some super important technical detail.....but wouldnt it just be easiest if there was a stable version (eg. Granite) and a development version.....since this can be used in an archived format and does not need to be installed wouldnt making a dev version be jokingly easy (with of course exceptions like my inability to figure out where I am going wrong -.-)
I mean atleast a Dev version for each new 40d## version would make sense....and in this case that would mean both 40d17 and 40d18
just use peterix's build for d17 and d18
http://dethware.org/StonesenseD18.zip
You are probably right that a dev build would be nice, but I don't think anyone would want to support it is the problem. :)
Post by: dennislp3 on March 02, 2010, 12:54:49 pm
I am not sure what you mean by people not supporting it....I am merely talking about there being the occasional development build released.....aka someone compiling the SVN in an archive format for people to download or something...seems a lot simpler than having people download a bunch of extra stuff and try and compile it. Would prolly help increase the fan base as well....I know I'm not the first to ask about this or a new version.
I guess for whatever reason it is more difficult than it should be...or I am just stupider now than I used to be with this stuff...which makes no real sense cause I am only 20 so I cant really contribute it to old age =P
Post by: jonask84 on March 03, 2010, 06:22:09 am
I only quoted you because you made me think "if its so easy for one person to do it why doesn't it just get released by the devs in some sort of nightly build format or something"
I am not sure what you mean by people not supporting it....I am merely talking about there being the occasional development build released.....aka someone compiling the SVN in an archive format for people to download or something...seems a lot simpler than having people download a bunch of extra stuff and try and compile it. Would prolly help increase the fan base as well....I know I'm not the first to ask about this or a new version.
I guess for whatever reason it is more difficult than it should be...or I am just stupider now than I used to be with this stuff...which makes no real sense cause I am only 20 so I cant really contribute it to old age =P
Hey dennislp3, thanks for trying out Stonesense :)
The reason we haven't been doing 'nightly' builds is because we want to make sure people get a quality product. It just gives a better impression we agreed upon. That being said, we are a bit overdue for d18 support. And I wish I'd taken the time to really sit down and integrate it properly. I hope I'll be able this weekend or something (there's been a lot of work and private stuff for me lately).
Other than that we are all holding our breaths for df 2010, and Japa is working on some really exciting new features I think you'll all be pleasantly surprised to see (once they're polished and finished).
Post by: dennislp3 on March 03, 2010, 04:19:59 pm
Post by: jonask84 on March 03, 2010, 06:03:58 pm
Thanks for the info. I am sorry if it seems like I'm just ragging on the project and saying you all suck lol....not my purpose. Spose it was just irritating when I can't use it in 40d18 (because it now feels like an essential part of Dwarf Fortress). I am eagerly looking forward to the new release and those to come, keep up the good work guys!
no no no, think nothing of it mate. We need any feedback we can get :) Obviously d18 support should be a priority.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 04, 2010, 12:19:30 am
I wanted to see how they were implemented in the xml, but I cna't seem to find where that would be.
Post by: jonask84 on March 04, 2010, 03:10:16 am
I don't mean to be a bother, but could anyone point out where snowed tiles are defined?
I wanted to see how they were implemented in the xml, but I cna't seem to find where that would be.
Because of how they work in the memory layout, snow and muddy tiles are hard coded in, there's no way of changing them yet. sorry.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 04, 2010, 07:11:24 am
Would there be any issue I've overlooked prevent me from adding that to the transparancy to show off the floor underneath?
just thinking as I type this... do floating ramps come with floors? or is that what the paper thin floor top is filling in?
(Testing while I wait for a reply)
--Floating ramps -do- automatically get a floor to go with it... was the inclusion of the floors in the ramps just leftover from the tiles they were based on?
Post by: kaypy on March 04, 2010, 07:34:03 am
just thinking as I type this... do floating ramps come with floors? or is that what the paper thin floor top is filling in?It's partially for historical reasons, partly because it makes little to no difference.
Each map tile has *one* terrain element. There isnt a separate ramp part from the floor part. When we see a ramp or a wall, we draw in an appropriate floor just because otherwise it would look silly.
Post by: Belal on March 04, 2010, 09:16:44 am
Thanks for the info. I am sorry if it seems like I'm just ragging on the project and saying you all suck lol....not my purpose. Spose it was just irritating when I can't use it in 40d18 (because it now feels like an essential part of Dwarf Fortress). I am eagerly looking forward to the new release and those to come, keep up the good work guys!
no no no, think nothing of it mate. We need any feedback we can get :) Obviously d18 support should be a priority.
You can use it in d18, peterix made a build for that earlier in the thread, it is not an official release, so don't expect support if it doesn't work, but you can use it.
here is the link again, http://dethware.org/StonesenseD18.zip
Post by: dennislp3 on March 04, 2010, 04:10:21 pm
Post by: quinnr on March 05, 2010, 11:32:05 am
We can live with 40D18 though. The saves are compatible right?
Post by: Solifuge on March 05, 2010, 01:33:44 pm
1) Tile Transitions:
Instead of having sharp tile edges, use smooth transitions from one texture to the next on the boarder. I'm thinking loose sand spilling out onto cracks in stone, tall marshgrass growing into a muddy-edged pond, rocky cliffside overhangs, and other pixely filligree. It's a lot of work, and may take time to integrate, but it would make things look far less blocky.
- Theoretical 2D Example:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Misc/2DEdgeTileExample.png?t=1267811413)
2) Complete Workshops/Constructions:
Full tileset for all Workshops and Constructions, remastered and done to reflect the materials they're made of, and walkable tiles. Also, get rid of the Generic Yellow Cube siege engines, etc. :P
- More stuff like this:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSCarpentersWorkshop.png)
3) Complete, Colorized Material Tiles, Floors, and Ramps (Natural or Constructed):
Full bank of tile textures, with recoloring as appropriate. Textured and colored ramps for all materials. Proper transparency effects for glass/ice. Multiple tile textures for grass, stone, water, etx. so large patches of a given material look more natural.
- (Example Forthcomming)
--
P.S. Jonas, do you think we might update the poll to reflect this?
Post by: neek on March 05, 2010, 01:52:24 pm
Post by: jugglervr on March 05, 2010, 01:55:56 pm
Also: i was a little surprised to not see piles of stuff at my depots.
also: i noticed that SS cut off ~4-5 squares of the edge of my map (i've built right to the edge).
not sure if these are known "features" but i thought i'd mention it.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 05, 2010, 01:59:49 pm
Which of the following features would you most like to see first?
Those are all really good areas to work on. 3 is important for completeness, 1 would look gorgeous.
Post by: Retro on March 05, 2010, 02:04:29 pm
And of course tile transitions are always super sexy. It's just a matter of transparencies and overlay orders, right?
Post by: Solifuge on March 05, 2010, 02:12:39 pm
Post by: quinnr on March 05, 2010, 04:10:27 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 05, 2010, 04:16:43 pm
Alright, I'm about to embark on another tile-spriting binge, and amidst all the things I'd like to do, I need to figure out where to start. Which of the following features would you most like to see first?3>2>1
1) Tile Transitions:
Instead of having sharp tile edges, use smooth transitions from one texture to the next on the boarder. I'm thinking loose sand spilling out onto cracks in stone, tall marshgrass growing into a muddy-edged pond, rocky cliffside overhangs, and other pixely filligree. It's a lot of work, and may take time to integrate, but it would make things look far less blocky.
- Theoretical 2D Example:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Misc/2DEdgeTileExample.png?t=1267811413)
2) Complete Workshops/Constructions:
Full tileset for all Workshops and Constructions, remastered and done to reflect the materials they're made of, and walkable tiles. Also, get rid of the Generic Yellow Cube siege engines, etc. :P
- More stuff like this:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/SSCarpentersWorkshop.png)
3) Complete, Colorized Material Tiles, Floors, and Ramps (Natural or Constructed):
Full bank of tile textures, with recoloring as appropriate. Textured and colored ramps for all materials. Proper transparency effects for glass/ice. Multiple tile textures for grass, stone, water, etx. so large patches of a given material look more natural.
- (Example Forthcomming)
--
P.S. Jonas, do you think we might update the poll to reflect this?
About 1, you do realize you're going to need to do that for all ramp shapes to get it to work properly? This is a place where 3d 'isualisers get it easier.
Also, if you're not too busy, could you do a vertical, diagonal, undithered (it's easy to add later)
(http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/8121/emptytz.png) Looks like...36w20h? Also lava.
Oh, or another spriter could. But I'm rubbish at creating new sprites.
(purpose: Cohesion/adhesion spritegen, I can steal the other faces from the extant sprites...though, lava sides need work.)
Post by: Solifuge on March 05, 2010, 04:46:54 pm
Which reminds me, another tile that needs to happen is Water/Magmafalls: Just set one of the 4 vertical faces (the one in the direction the water is flowing from) as the "bottom" and do 1-7 "depth" levels horizontally. Different texture too, but it should look okay.
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 05, 2010, 05:00:06 pm
I'd be happy to help, but I'm a bit confused by what you're looking for, Cobalt... are you looking for a "ramp" shape, like water flowing downhill toward the viewer's perspective? What's it for exactly?Vertical face but diagonal (NE/SW, is it?) And this is for that[fixing pancake waterfalls], but broader-thinking. Where did I put my cohesion pseudocode...oh, there (http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=43260.msg934221#msg934221).
Which reminds me, another tile that needs to happen is Water/Magmafalls: Just set one of the 4 vertical faces (the one in the direction the water is flowing from) as the "bottom" and do 1-7 "depth" levels horizontally. Different texture too, but it should look okay.
...I suppose making new faces for that and the two straight displayed sides as "falling water" (and magma) would be also possibly useful.
edit: added link
But yeah, those vertical lines on the sides of the current magma are kind of blargh.
Post by: Solifuge on March 05, 2010, 09:19:43 pm
Spoiler: The Reference Photograph (and yes, it's real) (click to show/hide)
CK, I'm currently working on remastering the water tile with something a bit different. Once I get it done, I'll start on your request. I like the idea of the vertical waterfall flows, but if you've got a solution it might wind up being a more elegant one.
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 05, 2010, 09:41:46 pm
The solution is one something like the ramp code, checking neighboring(UDNSEW) tiles for the same liquid (water if water, lava if lava) or walls and, possibly using the seventh bit for ground underneath separately from water underneath.
Waterfalls aren't going to look nice until you make the lesser tiles adhere and possibly cohere (since the code and art are going to be so similar). CheckBut, this reminds me of the issue of ramp tiles with water. Which would take rather many sprites, unless you figure out something.sixfive- way-occupancy(NSEWUD) for (solid) and (water), choose art based on that and 'depth'. Then, a waterfall will cling to the surface it's falling along, and you won't get the "pancake effect". Of course, one can take this anywhere from simple (is_occupied, 448 arts maximum) to crazy (checking each adjacent tile's answer to this algorithm) in terms of code and art to sink into it.
It'll be a hell of a lot faster to just render these things than to draw, that's for certain.a thought. What's stonesense do right now in the ramp+water case? Ramps would present an easy(Ha) case of stealing their calculations and surfaces.Spoiler: Degenerating cases... (click to show/hide)
edit: Can't for the life of me remember (or find) what the "this number is binary" prefix for C++ is, or if it exists. 0b?
Anyone know how it works presently? I suspect "it doesn't" due to neither binary draworder working nicely- cyclical overlap.
Given prior optimisations in the ramp code I'm sure you'd use a LUT instead of the pseudocode suggestions I wrote above.
But, if we ignore the ramps for now, then one can get away with a mere 60 new sprites. You'd only need draw 6 really once you get that diagonal face drawn, as prisms would do for all but the TRICKLE_TILE case (that is, water falling that has no adjacent walls) and those prisms can simply be drawn by C+Ping the faces and cropping and such.
Of course this is really a probllem you can throw an arbitrary quantity of sprites at.
On the side, my calculations put
| Sevenths | Sixteenths nearest | Height used in spritesheet presently |
| ? | 0 | |
| 1/7 | 2/16 | 2 |
| 2/7 | 5/16 | 4 |
| 3/7 | 7/16 | 7 |
| 4/7 | 9/16 | 10 |
| 5/7 | 11/16 | 13 |
| 6/7 | 14/16 | 16 |
Post by: kaypy on March 05, 2010, 10:12:24 pm
1) Tile Transitions:Hrm. I can see this being a nightmare on the code side... Or at very least slowing the display down by a significant chunk... I could be wrong, but take it as a 'here be dragons' label 8-)
Quote
2) Complete Workshops/Constructions:I would dearly love to get rid of those last yellow boxes. My attempts at siege engines have been too sucky to even contemplate adding though. (Hmm. I think we still don't have directionality for buildings yet, but we could at least have a siege engine pointing some arbitrary direction)
Full tileset for all Workshops and Constructions, remastered and done to reflect the materials they're made of, and walkable tiles. Also, get rid of the Generic Yellow Cube siege engines, etc. :P
Updating the workshops will be a rather non-trivial configuration exercise: the current ones are more optimized for configurability than for looking good... (OTOH, I haven't been making much progress elsewhere recently, so it might be the perfect time for a nice simple-but-slow config exercise)
Quote
3) Complete, Colorized Material Tiles, Floors, and Ramps (Natural or Constructed):Again I would be worried about just how much the additional textures will slow things down. Has anyone set up the full Jadael set to compare the speeds?
Oh, and something else you may want to consider is checking out the item display branch- a whole bunch of the sprites there are decidedly 'first pass'. (Its pretty close to ready to go- I need to look at getting DFHack updated in the trunk first, and have been holding off because I wasn't really sure what I was doing there)
Post by: Untelligent on March 05, 2010, 10:31:37 pm
3) Complete, Colorized Material Tiles, Floors, and Ramps (Natural or Constructed):
Full bank of tile textures, with recoloring as appropriate. Textured and colored ramps for all materials. Proper transparency effects for glass/ice. Multiple tile textures for grass, stone, water, etx. so large patches of a given material look more natural.
When the colors for metals and stone and things get added, would it be possible to make the color of the texture based on the color of the material, rather than the material itself? i.e. instead of having seperate textures for obsidian, rhyolite, and mica, it would have one texture for, say, stone floors, and then color that based on the stone. Or at the very least it would only work like that if Stonesense didn't have a specific texture for the material in question. Would make stonesense more mod-friendly, is the point I'm trying to get across.
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 05, 2010, 10:38:56 pm
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1051/cardinalwaterfalls.png)
Untelligent: I keep saying that, but...
Post by: kaypy on March 05, 2010, 11:10:20 pm
When the colors for metals and stone and things get added, would it be possible to make the color of the texture based on the color of the material, rather than the material itself?That was the original plan with respect to materials, but there are some back-end issues to sort out with caching and such. Caching is getting more attention in some of the branches, so once we get that it (and we *need* it for a variety of reasons) then getting material colours should follow.
Post by: Greiger on March 06, 2010, 12:06:30 am
Again I would be worried about just how much the additional textures will slow things down. Has anyone set up the full Jadael set to compare the speeds?
I haven't done it specifically to test the speeds, but I believe I use the full Jadael set, (New Walls and floors) as well as my own creature sprites, and it doesn't seem noticeably slower to me when just looking around normally.
It does lose some speed when I unhide tiles though while I don't recall regular slowing down at all with tiles unhidden.
So basically no difference with hidden tiles dark, about 3/4ths speed with the Jadael stuff with tiles unhidden.
Again, this is just casual observation.
Post by: Solifuge on March 06, 2010, 12:57:16 am
When the colors for metals and stone and things get added, would it be possible to make the color of the texture based on the color of the material, rather than the material itself? i.e. instead of having seperate textures for obsidian, rhyolite, and mica, it would have one texture for, say, stone floors, and then color that based on the stone. Or at the very least it would only work like that if Stonesense didn't have a specific texture for the material in question. Would make stonesense more mod-friendly, is the point I'm trying to get across.
My personal plan is to create 8 monochrome textures, 2 for each classification of stone... I posted a list on this thread some time ago, but I can't seem to find it to reference. These different textures would provide visual interest (and a way to tell same-colored stone apart just by sight), while still keeping the number of unique textures manageable.
For example, Marble and Obsidian would share a texture since they are both have semi-lustrous foliate surfaces, but one would be white with brown highlights, and the other would be black with blue highlights:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/RecolorExample.png)
Also, for your viewing pleasure, I give you: WATER v3.0 - The Hydrating
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/NewWater.png) (http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/NewWater2.png)
It's broken up into floor tiles and a block tile now, and has been given different surface textures so that you can recognize when the camera is under water as opposed to at the surface.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 06, 2010, 01:15:20 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 06, 2010, 01:25:59 am
Also, on reflection, I think the fakefloor is the 8th of 7. But water, like all else, doesn't obey 'olume so much.
Archimedes could not please the king.
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 06, 2010, 01:30:27 am
My personal plan is to create 8 monochrome textures, 2 for each classification of stone... I posted a list on this thread some time ago, but I can't seem to find it to reference.You can't find it because...you didn't post it.
Made a list of all the sprites Stonesence could need. I don't know how comprehensive it is because I know there is allot missing and allot that could use the same sprite. I'd put this on the Google code wiki but im not a committer so if someone else can or set up a better wiki that would be appreciated as this list needs the help of others. :-\Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jugglervr on March 06, 2010, 01:34:08 am
(i'm using the d18 compiled version that was linked in this thread a few pages back)
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 06, 2010, 01:35:25 am
So, I hope i'm not sounding dumb here, but i've noticed that SS displays magma when there's no way I would have known it was there. This feels a little cheaty... is there any way to turn this off?D'you use :NO] on your features?
(i'm using the d18 compiled version that was linked in this thread a few pages back)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 06, 2010, 01:39:14 am
My personal plan is to create 8 monochrome textures, 2 for each classification of stone... I posted a list on this thread some time ago, but I can't seem to find it to reference.You can't find it because...you didn't post it.Made a list of all the sprites Stonesence could need. I don't know how comprehensive it is because I know there is allot missing and allot that could use the same sprite. I'd put this on the Google code wiki but im not a committer so if someone else can or set up a better wiki that would be appreciated as this list needs the help of others. :-\Spoiler (click to show/hide)
actually...
(two days prior)
If I may be so bold Solifuge I would suggest that the wood and stone supports could still use a bit of work (they strike me as looking a little thin and odd)... Not that I could do a better job... Just a thought if you wanted to have a crack at making an improvement or alternative...
That was actually the idea! Remember, supports are built not as permanent structures, but as temporary struts that can be collapsed remotely.For rock type graphics I'd recommend they be based on the typical depictions of rocks in geology textbooks (yes I've taken some geology) as these are a made to both match the rocks real appearance and be recognizable. All of these refer to rough stone surfaces, smoothing and constructions are a separate issues. The following should provide enough variety to do all the layer stones once a colorizing system is in place.
(...)
As a complete Rock Geek, this is something I've been mulling over for a while to try and find a way to do it right. I took some of your suggested textures, as well as a set of others, and added in a few others. Each category will have a generic greyscale stone texture, which we can apply colors to in order to create all the different stone types. Eventually, I'd like to have multiple textures of each category, which will be cycled through to create more natural-looking walls.
1. Flakey Sedimentary (Shale, Mica)
2. Grainy Sedimentary (Sandstone, Siltstone)
3. Clear Crystaline (Ruby, Rock Salt)
4. Opaque Crystaline (Obsidian, Bituminous Coal)
6. Smooth Igneous (Basalt, Rhyolite)
7. Coarse Igneous (Granite, Diorite)
7. Lusterous Metamorphic (Marble, Quartzite)
8. Foliated Metamorphic (Gneiss, Phyllite)
9. Nodular (Bauxite, Conglomerate)
10. Metalic (Hematite, Tetrahedrite)
Post by: jugglervr on March 06, 2010, 01:39:46 am
hmm. is that somewhere in the init? I don't have an attribute called "features" in my init, and i've glanced at all the values... am i just overlooking it?So, I hope i'm not sounding dumb here, but i've noticed that SS displays magma when there's no way I would have known it was there. This feels a little cheaty... is there any way to turn this off?D'you use :NO] on your features?
(i'm using the d18 compiled version that was linked in this thread a few pages back)
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 06, 2010, 01:42:40 am
Dark_Tundra: My mistake. I expect "lusterous"[sic] caused it to not show up in my search.
Post by: jugglervr on March 06, 2010, 02:00:52 am
jugglervr: I mean the site finder settings, for underground rivers, UG pools, magmapipes, bottomless pits, chasms, magmapools, and "other features". Which would be one way to know something's there.
ehhhh. i fear this is me being obtuse again, but the init doesn't have the words "site" or finder" either, and i'm not sure how to find any other options.
can you give me a more clear idea of what I'm looking for?
Cheers.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 06, 2010, 02:21:57 am
CobaltKobold:I think jugglervr may actually mean; unrevealed magma, under a fort, has a visible surface in stonesense if you are viewing the same slice
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 06, 2010, 02:30:28 am
jugglervr:
Code: [Select]
You can change these to ALWAYS and NO. More restrictive world parameter settings override these. ALWAYS lets you see the features in the Local view during embark, and NO stops you from looking for features in the site finder (though if you really want to stop the finder, it might be better for you to generate worlds that restrict the use of this feature completely, in which case you don't need to change the settings here).
[SHOW_EMBARK_RIVER:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_POOL:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_M_PIPE:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_M_POOL:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_CHASM:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_PIT:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_OTHER:ALWAYS]
[SHOW_EMBARK_TUNNEL:ALWAYS] The default is :FINDER] which lets you use the embark site finder to find said features. And, at least for the round features (pipes, pools, pits) it's really really easy to find them if you know what embark square they're in. UGrivers are hardest that way, chasms are pretty hard to miss, and Other Features are sort of tricksy.Did that answer your question?
Post by: jugglervr on March 06, 2010, 02:31:30 am
jugglervr: I believe CobaltKobold may mean; you can know that the magma is there if you search for it in the site finder(correct me if I am wrong)
CobaltKobold:I think jugglervr may actually mean; unrevealed magma, under a fort, has a visible surface in stonesense if you are viewing the same slice
ah yes. I can see the exact location of the magma in SS, but i can't see it in DF. this prevents any kind of exploration to find the magma. ;)
Post by: Footkerchief on March 06, 2010, 02:32:51 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 06, 2010, 02:33:53 am
...In retrospect, that's a 'would' not a 'could'.
Post by: Kaelem Gaen on March 06, 2010, 03:38:15 am
(I had built on the complete opposite side of the map from where the magma was.)
Eitherway I still love Stonesense, it's fun to use in Adventure mode.
Post by: Innominate on March 06, 2010, 04:18:48 am
I suggest we follow DF's own route and have simple black squares. In terms of memory usage, a single bit colour depth is the best you can get pretty much, and you would only have to store one square in total.
A number of questions on implementation (I guess I could search the source for myself and find out, but anyway - feel free to ignore the wall of text): what level of caching does Stonesense use? As I see it, you can either cache all images necessary to render the displayed area of the fortress, or you can cache the images for the entire fortress - the latter has a bigger memory footprint but makes switching between levels and scrolling around faster. Does Stonesense cache only the images it needs, or does it cache (say) all the images relating to a certain material? Are all displayed tiles cached, or only those that recur many times in the one display? What about tiles that are within the area to be displayed but occluded by other tiles?
Now it's probably too much to ask, but would it be possible in the future to force Stonesense to use a specific level of caching? So if somebody had severe memory constraints or, conversely, an overabundance of memory, they could instruct Stonesense to cache more or fewer images? Obviously not important right now, but perhaps something to think about.
Post by: mizipzor on March 06, 2010, 04:41:53 am
I assume DFHack has access to the "hidden" flag for tiles? [...]
Indeed it has, its that bit thats set in the reveal tool/example.
Post by: Retro on March 06, 2010, 03:28:43 pm
Also, for your viewing pleasure, I give you: WATER v3.0 - The HydratingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
It's broken up into floor tiles and a block tile now, and has been given different surface textures so that you can recognize when the camera is under water as opposed to at the surface.
Gorgeous. High fives
Post by: kaypy on March 06, 2010, 08:44:56 pm
So, I hope i'm not sounding dumb here, but i've noticed that SS displays magma when there's no way I would have known it was there. This feels a little cheaty... is there any way to turn this off?Going back and looking at the actual behaviour of an unrevealed HFS in stonesense, this is absolutely 100% a bug.
(i'm using the d18 compiled version that was linked in this thread a few pages back)
Thanks for pointing that out jugglervr
Edit: OK, now fixed on the trunk
Post by: Octopusfluff on March 06, 2010, 09:26:57 pm
It's broken up into floor tiles and a block tile now, and has been given different surface textures so that you can recognize when the camera is under water as opposed to at the surface.
Any chance of another texture that can distinguish shoals from normal water?
Post by: Footkerchief on March 06, 2010, 09:42:10 pm
Any chance of another texture that can distinguish shoals from normal water?
Shoals as in brook tiles?
Post by: NathanL on March 06, 2010, 11:19:25 pm
I just tried stonesense and keep getting the error "Could not find DF process" every time I try and start it.
I start DF, load up my fortress, start up stonesense and at the title screen press F9 followed by the above error everytime. I've tried restarting both DF and stonesense and each time the same error.
My process running DF is "dwarfort.exe" is that correct? Any other ideas?
Post by: dennislp3 on March 06, 2010, 11:29:25 pm
I've played DF on and off for a while.
I just tried stonesense and keep getting the error "Could not find DF process" every time I try and start it.
I start DF, load up my fortress, start up stonesense and at the title screen press F9 followed by the above error everytime. I've tried restarting both DF and stonesense and each time the same error.
My process running DF is "dwarfort.exe" is that correct? Any other ideas?
Chances are you are using a version that is not compatible with stonesense. It currently only supports 40d16
Post by: NathanL on March 06, 2010, 11:49:29 pm
Post by: kaypy on March 07, 2010, 12:10:08 am
That's it thanks. I'm running 40d18.There is d18 support if you either compile your own version from the trunk or grab peterix's unofficial build from a few pages back
Post by: Octopusfluff on March 07, 2010, 04:12:39 am
Any chance of another texture that can distinguish shoals from normal water?Shoals as in brook tiles?
Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. I don't know where I got shoals from. :D
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on March 07, 2010, 05:13:39 am
Post by: Jadael on March 07, 2010, 04:51:41 pm
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on March 08, 2010, 02:35:55 am
Post by: Belal on March 08, 2010, 08:46:59 am
I would dearly love to get rid of those last yellow boxes. My attempts at siege engines have been too sucky to even contemplate adding though. (Hmm. I think we still don't have directionality for buildings yet, but we could at least have a siege engine pointing some arbitrary direction)
Found the byte for directionality a while back, but never put it into dfhack, I can probably put it in at some point when I free up some time.
Post by: quinnr on March 08, 2010, 02:26:22 pm
Just like that windmill!
Post by: Greiger on March 08, 2010, 05:15:12 pm
As far as I know the only other building that is still waiting on a placeholder sprite is the alchemy workshop. But really, does ANYONE build those? Maybe in DF2010 once soap is useful for something. Other than megaconstructions and nonfunctional 'showers' with soap grates I mean.
Post by: Retro on March 08, 2010, 05:27:25 pm
The problem with that is you would see a uniform layer of soil ware the brook is if your viewing just that level ware as the game treats the brooks 'bottom' tiles like an aquifer, it will gush water thus it needs a different appearance.
I don't recall brooks ever being treated like aquifers. They constantly drain off one side of the map, hence why they never seem to get full, but they're just regular tiles otherwise.
Personally I think if you just make brook surface tiles opaque instead of translucent, you can leave them as-is and they'll appear regular from the surface. There may need to be a few differences between brooks over rock, soil, grass, whatever, but it should work.
As far as I know the only other building that is still waiting on a placeholder sprite is the alchemy workshop. But really, does ANYONE build those?
Sometimes for the aesthetic. C'mon, dwarven mad scientists... >_>
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 08, 2010, 05:48:31 pm
...kinda like that American Indian in that one old no littering commercial.Psst, He was adopted.
I was going to scale up my work on Ballistas, but I realized that they wouldn't fit with the rest of Stonesense too well.
(http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/8795/ballista.png)
Post by: Octopusfluff on March 09, 2010, 03:18:50 am
And that supporting surface is also destroyable by dropping things on it. It's kinda weird.
Post by: Innominate on March 09, 2010, 04:25:51 am
Brooks most emphatically do not behave like aquifers. They enter the map at one end and drain at the other end, just like rivers. The only difference, functionally, is that the TOP of a brook tile is a supporter, like a grate. Underneath, it's a normal tile, water flows normally, and you can even send dwarves through it if you drain the water fast enough. :DIt's a regular floor with one extra property: it behaves as a water tile for the purposes of waterwheels and wells (I think it is actually just "transparent"; if there is no water beneath the brook tile it won't work).
And that supporting surface is also destroyable by dropping things on it. It's kinda weird.
If you cause a cave-in the falling rock will collapse any floor that does not have a wall underneath it, whether it is a brook tile or not.
I'm not sure whether brook surface tiles trigger cave-ins, though it should be simple enough to test.
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 09, 2010, 04:26:31 am
Post by: Octopusfluff on March 09, 2010, 11:33:13 pm
It's a regular floor with one extra property: it behaves as a water tile for the purposes of waterwheels and wells (I think it is actually just "transparent"; if there is no water beneath the brook tile it won't work).
Last I recall -- and the wiki seems to support me, for whatever that's worth -- you couldn't use a brook tile for a waterwheel or well; you have to channel through the brook surface first.
This is why I was suggesting a distinct tile for the floor over the brook, since it seems to function as an actual barrier.
I should probably go play with it, to double-check, but I'm already juggling quite a bit tonight.
Post by: Retro on March 09, 2010, 11:37:28 pm
It's a regular floor with one extra property: it behaves as a water tile for the purposes of waterwheels and wells (I think it is actually just "transparent"; if there is no water beneath the brook tile it won't work).
Last I recall -- and the wiki seems to support me, for whatever that's worth -- you couldn't use a brook tile for a waterwheel or well; you have to channel through the brook surface first.
This is why I was suggesting a distinct tile for the floor over the brook, since it seems to function as an actual barrier.
I should probably go play with it, to double-check, but I'm already juggling quite a bit tonight.
No, I believe you're correct. An actual tile for brook surfaces would be appropriate, then, although there would still have to be visible water underneath due to DF's weird brooks.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 09, 2010, 11:42:41 pm
No, I believe you're correct. An actual tile for brook surfaces would be appropriate, then, although there would still have to be visible water underneath due to DF's weird brooks.
Yeah, all that should be needed is a transparent floor tile (mostly empty except for a few rocks/pebbles/etc.) drawn on top of the water.
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on March 10, 2010, 04:39:40 am
Post by: Footkerchief on March 10, 2010, 04:54:40 am
That would look weird though to see a kind of 'covered' water
It would just look like rocks sticking out of the water. Simple.
also when you DO channel out the Brook their will be no change in the lower water section only a removal of the top.
That's all that happens in the game too, as far as I can tell.
Post by: Retro on March 10, 2010, 05:24:16 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(also, it's astounding how difficult it is to find a picture of a brook on google image search.)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on March 10, 2010, 06:57:34 am
Quote
It would just look like rocks sticking out of the water. Simple.
Not if its being sliced through vertically, a view that Stone Sense frequently allows, it would then look that top layer of rocks is 'floating' on water.
And I can assure you that both the top and bottom of a Brook are different from a regular River, Rivers use Tile Index 90 and 365 through 372 for their floors, Brooks use 381 for their top and 373 through 380 for the bottom portion. So these can be distinguished from each other.
Post by: KernelM on March 10, 2010, 06:59:00 am
(also, it's astounding how difficult it is to find a picture of a brook on google image search.)
Ahem, yes. Don't do an image search of just "Brook" while at work just as your boss comes over to your desk... like I just did. :P
Post by: Solifuge on March 10, 2010, 11:33:10 am
I found it funny that an everyday natural feature found the world over just got supplanted by a single person's last name. The internet really is for pron.
Post by: Jadael on March 10, 2010, 12:32:44 pm
Post by: Retro on March 10, 2010, 06:34:24 pm
I know very well what a brook is and what it looks like in real life ::)QuoteIt would just look like rocks sticking out of the water. Simple.
Not if its being sliced through vertically, a view that Stone Sense frequently allows, it would then look that top layer of rocks is 'floating' on water.
And I can assure you that both the top and bottom of a Brook are different from a regular River, Rivers use Tile Index 90 and 365 through 372 for their floors, Brooks use 381 for their top and 373 through 380 for the bottom portion. So these can be distinguished from each other.
Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you didn't know what a brook, I just thought we might've been miscommunicating :P Yeah, I know brooks would look weird when sliced, but that would only affect the bottom two edges of Stonesense's display, which would be acceptable imo. And yeah, I imagine brook -water tiles can be differentiated from regualr water tiles, but I figure enough people channel their brooks into some other body of water that to make brook-water look less like the 7/7 blocks it is would make connections to/from brooks look weird. Plus DF really does have a river mysteriously underneath its brooks, so I figure game-reality would take priority. Admittedly I'm sure others could think of some better idea for incorporating DF's world and RL into SS's brooks than I can.
Post by: Dukit on March 10, 2010, 09:38:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Water flowing into it might look a little screwy though.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 10, 2010, 11:53:45 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on March 11, 2010, 01:24:03 am
^^^ That would be interesting if DF's brooks had naturally varying depths, but as it is you'd only see the "7 Deep" if you drained the brook, which would cause the apparent soil level to fluctuate wildly.
Well, the soil in brooks would have to be a very, very fine glass powder, which of course (optically) disappears when in water.
Post by: tobias on March 11, 2010, 02:59:08 am
(http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4250/brook2.png)(http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/2807/brooky.png)
Post by: Impaler[WrG] on March 11, 2010, 03:21:26 am
Post by: Footkerchief on March 11, 2010, 03:46:33 am
Post by: tobias on March 11, 2010, 04:53:11 am
The right one has some pretty dire dithering going on. Left is okay, but the water looks kind of opaque/stony and doesn't match the style and vibrant color of Stonesense's existing water tiles.The one on the right was just using a pasted version of the water image; it was probably a bad idea in hindsight. Using the vibrancy suggestion along with a few more tweaks because I wasn't happy with it myself:
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8496/brook.png) (http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/4250/brook2.png)
In case it's hard to tell, the second one is kinda transparent. Someone else could probably do a better job with the transparency (and these tiles in general), but there's my attempt at any rate.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 11, 2010, 10:33:04 am
Concerning the brook/stream; I like this one the best so far.
(http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8496/brook.png)
Post by: Greiger on March 11, 2010, 10:55:39 am
Probably the best bet would be a little abstraction. Look like a full brook for water above 3/7 and an empty brook for water 2/7. Probably would only look odd when a fortress is actively sourcing water from the brook or when it gets to the map edge.
Unless of course somebody wants to make custom sprites for all 7 depths of brook, which would end up looking pretty good probably, but may be more effort than it's worth.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 11, 2010, 12:41:12 pm
Unless of course somebody wants to make custom sprites for all 7 depths of brook, which would end up looking pretty good probably, but may be more effort than it's worth.Not perfect, but it's a start.
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/brook.png)
Post by: Solifuge on March 11, 2010, 12:47:58 pm
It's a tall order, but some day when this engine is finished, I hope to see a tileset in that style. It looks nice.
Post by: quinnr on March 11, 2010, 02:06:42 pm
...spriting on heavily indexed pallettes and low-res DOS-era stuff. Still haven't shaken the habits, hence some of the stylized retroness going on...
But that's what I like about Stonesense...
Post by: Fleeb on March 11, 2010, 02:37:06 pm
Post by: Solifuge on March 11, 2010, 02:38:44 pm
...spriting on heavily indexed pallettes and low-res DOS-era stuff. Still haven't shaken the habits, hence some of the stylized retroness going on...
But that's what I like about Stonesense...
Don't get me wrong, I like the Retro too, hence why I'm doing it. Heck, I'm full of myself, so by default anything I do is the most magnificent thing I've ever seen. More seriously though, it's my chosen style, and works really well when making things tile without obvious edges and repetition and such.
I just happen to really like the complex textures and rich colors used in those tiles too, and it's a technique I've never yet been able to master. Maybe some day... *wistful eyes*
Post by: tobias on March 11, 2010, 02:41:34 pm
I made the bits sticking out looks like stones instead of mud/dirt. Didn't occur to me when I made the original, but having the water levels brought it to my attention. I'm astounded by your ability to change the water levels without having the original file, by the way. You're a great sprite maker.Unless of course somebody wants to make custom sprites for all 7 depths of brook, which would end up looking pretty good probably, but may be more effort than it's worth.Not perfect, but it's a start.
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/brook.png)
(http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/5083/brooks.png)
Here's a version that takes the water sections and makes them able to see through to the ground in the alternate transparency method found in the already existing water tiles.
(http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/1192/brooklevelsstonepseudot.png)
Here I brightened up the water a bit, since now it looked a bit odd in Stonesense.
(http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1192/brooklevelsstonepseudot.png)
So, ah, what versions of DF does this work for? I can't get it to work with the latest d19.To get it to work with d19, you need to go to the Stonesense Directory and replace your Memory.xml with this version (http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/output/Memory.xml) (you may wish to make a copy of the old one, just in case).
Post by: Retro on March 11, 2010, 02:53:41 pm
Don't get me wrong, I like the Retro too...spriting on heavily indexed pallettes and low-res DOS-era stuff. Still haven't shaken the habits, hence some of the stylized retroness going on...But that's what I like about Stonesense...
*obligatory cough cough* >_>
I do like those brook tiles that are developing in the thread. Hopefully someone will manage to test them in Stonesense and see how they work with everything else.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 11, 2010, 11:00:22 pm
I'm astounded by your ability to change the water levels without having the original file, by the way. You're a great sprite maker.I've been spriting since I was about 2 years old, and most of that was modifying other sprites. I didn't actually get out of MS paint until highschool(new version sucks though).
I was really lucky, your water practically drained itself.
----------
Uploaded my today's project. Directional smoothed+constructed stone
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Terrain (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Terrain)
(http://df.magmawiki.com/images/3/34/TundraDirectionalWalls.png)
Post by: tobias on March 12, 2010, 02:50:22 am
Overhanging floors need borders, it took me way too long to figure out what was going on there. o.oI'm astounded by your ability to change the water levels without having the original file, by the way. You're a great sprite maker.I've been spriting since I was about 2 years old, and most of that was modifying other sprites. I didn't actually get out of MS paint until highschool(new version sucks though).
I was really lucky, your water practically drained itself.
----------
Uploaded my today's project. Directional smoothed+constructed stone
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Terrain (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Terrain)
(http://df.magmawiki.com/images/3/34/TundraDirectionalWalls.png)
It looks nice, though.
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2010, 03:16:19 am
I'm working on an experimental build that gives proper transparencies, resizeable windows, and TTF fonts.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1914
(http://pix.sparky-s.ie/541b5.png)
while I like to think that I got the bugs worked out, I know that there's some that I know nothing about.
anyway, if you find a bug in this version, either PM it to me, or post it here. don't bother jonask about it.
Post by: jonask84 on March 12, 2010, 03:40:09 am
Uploaded my today's project. Directional smoothed+constructed stone
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Terrain (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository#Terrain)
(http://df.magmawiki.com/images/3/34/TundraDirectionalWalls.png)
@ Tundra, I am impressed! You really got how the terrain walls are working! And the sprites are very well done; on behalf of all of us, thank you
@ japa: As I've said before, I'm really digging the way your branch is heading. Can't wait to get this into the official release (like we talked about in private). How is performance going? Is the Allegro preview still a little sluggish?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 12, 2010, 04:11:35 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I've tried to clearly comment the xml with which value is which wall, so most of the trial and error is done for you already.
also I wanted to get rid of a lot of the unnessecary overhang, but I'd need to be able to sort the diagonals out to prevent punching holes on the Unreachable side of things.
like this post:
Just say, "hypothetically" I wanted to set up a wall tile to be one sprite if adjacent to 3 or 4 walls (not counting diagonally), and another otherwise. Is this possible for me to set up with current stonesense? or would this kind of functionality destablize the program?
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2010, 05:26:28 am
@ japa: As I've said before, I'm really digging the way your branch is heading. Can't wait to get this into the official release (like we talked about in private). How is performance going? Is the Allegro preview still a little sluggish?
performance is great!
from what I've seen, it seems to be comparable or better than current trunk.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 12, 2010, 06:36:26 am
if you find a bug in this version, either PM it to me, or post it here.I'm not sure it's a bug, but I'm not seeing any fog.
Code: [Select]
[SHOW_FOG:YES]
[FOG_RED:0]
[FOG_GREEN:0]
[FOG_BLUE:0]
[FOG_ALPHA:128]
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2010, 06:43:04 am
Post by: Retro on March 12, 2010, 09:19:41 am
ok, I think I've gotten this to some level of stability.
I'm working on an experimental build that gives proper transparencies, resizeable windows, and TTF fonts.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1914Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ooh, that looks fabulous. I was just about to take some Undergrotto screenies, too; having colour would be amazing. When I have time later today I'll test it out and let you know what bugs I find.
Edit- Works very well; my issues are that the 'i' key doesn't seem to be deactivating zone view, and the natural keypress-response time (or whatever it's called) is insanely fast, though I think you can change that in the init. As a side note, as nice as the new font (edit: yeah, mistyped the first time) looks, I liked the old one better :P But it's great that the capability's there.
Post by: Firgof Umbra on March 13, 2010, 10:32:50 am
If so, how long away is that feature?
Currently, beach waves and the changing water levels do not seem to be represented.
Post by: Morac on March 15, 2010, 09:32:10 pm
[/quote] This doesn't work for me. It just crashes on start-up.
I guess I'll just have to wait (impatiently ;)) for the official release.
Post by: Retro on March 15, 2010, 11:34:40 pm
Morac: You can always just copy your savegame to the last 40d1# version that's supported. Not the best option, no, but an option nonetheless.
Post by: darkflagrance on March 16, 2010, 02:27:27 am
A fun fact that I just recently discovered; don't think it's been posted here yet. When your DF screen freezes to calculate a cave-in, your SS screen does not likewise freeze as I expected - in fact, you can watch everything slowly fall down chunk by chunk as the calculations are performed. It's really quite interesting!
Morac: You can always just copy your savegame to the last 40d1# version that's supported. Not the best option, no, but an option nonetheless.
Is this the case for flying creatures in general? If so, someone needs to make a video of a 111 z-level goblin drop sometime...especially when Stonesense can depict gibs as well.
Post by: Rose on March 16, 2010, 02:54:09 am
Post by: fletcherh on March 17, 2010, 11:51:00 am
SS doesn't display nicknames. So if I rename a dwarf "FletcherH" it still shows up as Urist. Any easy way to fix this?
Post by: Shoehead on March 17, 2010, 12:18:21 pm
It's so much easier to know who's who with it.
Post by: Galandor on March 18, 2010, 07:54:00 am
Any help please? I've been very reluctant on posting here adding to your troubles, but I just can't find another solution.
Cheers.
Post by: Solifuge on March 18, 2010, 10:25:01 am
Also, I wont post anything here lest I ruin the surprise, but Beefmo has another graphics pack in the works, and it is rocking pretty hard. :)
Post by: JanusTwoface on March 18, 2010, 10:28:16 am
Also, I wont post anything here lest I ruin the surprise, but Beefmo has another graphics pack in the works, and it is rocking pretty hard. :)
This shouldn't ruin much:
For Stonesense or for DF itself?
Post by: Solifuge on March 18, 2010, 10:35:17 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on March 18, 2010, 10:46:21 am
Would I post it here if it wasn't for Stonesense? Also, if I'm not careful, he's going to put me out of ajobhobby!
I was hoping for as much, but there was just a discussion about Mayday's packs, so I had to be sure.
Post by: Galandor on March 18, 2010, 11:20:04 am
Cheers.
Post by: tehmarken on March 18, 2010, 09:26:43 pm
What all sprites are still being worked on for the core of the visuals? I was working on Kobolds and Goblins, but then had a massive drop in free time because of work. But, now I've got free time again, and wanted to come back and contribute to this wonderful project.
Here's what I had done previously:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Untelligent on March 18, 2010, 09:34:40 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on March 18, 2010, 10:23:01 pm
DF goblins have grey skin, but aside from that those look great.
In the next version their skin color ranges through various shades of gray and green, so it's a tossup, really.
Post by: jonask84 on March 19, 2010, 03:21:26 am
Stonesense is looking great ;D
What all sprites are still being worked on for the core of the visuals? I was working on Kobolds and Goblins, but then had a massive drop in free time because of work. But, now I've got free time again, and wanted to come back and contribute to this wonderful project.
Welcome back tehmarken! We're still a few goblin and Kobold sprites short, so your contribution is always very welcome :) I dont know if you saw, this but we've set up a few tutorials and even more importantly the Stonesense Content Repository (which is very much like the tileset repository). It's designed to make it easy for graphic devs to share their Stonesense graphics packs with other users, and it's a nice way for us devs to pull content into the main project.
Can't wait to see what turns up :)
http://magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Content_repository
http://magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense#Modding_With_Stonesense
Post by: Beefmo on March 19, 2010, 12:11:15 pm
Common domestics and pack animals for all!
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/background_common.gif)
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1931
(links to the dffd since i forgot my password for the wiki page :P)
If i've missed anything please let me know!
Post by: Moontayle on March 19, 2010, 01:42:09 pm
Post by: tehmarken on March 20, 2010, 12:20:28 am
Edit: I browsed through the current release, and noticed the goblin is my design. I wasn't happy with how his legs were, so I shifted them to give it a more 3D look.
Here's the updated image:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I'll be getting to work on doing the full goblin military.
Post by: jonask84 on March 20, 2010, 11:35:45 am
Great work as always beefmo!
Edit: I browsed through the current release, and noticed the goblin is my design. I wasn't happy with how his legs were, so I shifted them to give it a more 3D look.
Here's the updated image:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And I'll be getting to work on doing the full goblin military.
Great, thanks :)
Just to be sure; when you do the goblins, it would be smart to put them on their own tile sheet with their own xml file. like how the elves and dwarfs are done right now
@Beefmo: As I said in the email, again great work! It looks amazing
Post by: Tayron on March 20, 2010, 10:23:37 pm
Now, I've tried it with the latest official version, and it works fine. Buuut...I've actually been using 40d19, and it keeps throwing the "Can't find DF process" error. Even when I use just the original 40d19, no graphics or anything, it still has the same issue.
Soo...I'm left to wonder, am I doing something wrong? Or does it just not work with 40d19, and I missed a post somewhere? ^^;
Post by: kaypy on March 20, 2010, 11:10:35 pm
Post by: Rose on March 21, 2010, 02:41:08 am
the one that will work with d19 isn't quite working yet from what I can see.
anyways, here's the hopefully final build of the Allegro 4.9 branch, any but reports are appreciated.
--removed--
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
fog is now working, but it behaves differently from before, so mess around with it.
Post by: peterix on March 21, 2010, 03:07:32 am
No, it just works with d18.Dude, I just got the atmospherics working... I dug it out of darius's code and repurposed it for the needs of dfhack ~_~
the one that will work with d19 isn't quite working yet from what I can see.
anyways, here's the hopefully final build of the Allegro 4.9 branch, any but reports are appreciated.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1934
fog is now working, but it behaves differently from before, so mess around with it.
Mist, fire, smoke, boiling materials (any - with the usual matgloss pair), ocean waves and other stuff like that. It still needs some work (offset hunting) and it's only in the master dfhack branch so far... but it works.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 21, 2010, 06:25:38 am
Post by: Rose on March 21, 2010, 06:33:34 am
For those of you who use 40d19_2, I give you my latest dev build:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1935
Post by: TOMzors on March 21, 2010, 07:47:46 am
Post by: Brodiggan on March 21, 2010, 02:25:48 pm
For those of you who use 40d19_2, I give you my latest dev build:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1935
At the moment at least, this build is dying before I even get the stonesense logo screen. Anyone else having the same problem? (Win XP/vanilla DF 40d19.2)
Post by: Tayron on March 21, 2010, 07:37:41 pm
On that note...I don't really have anything to say except...wow. I love it! :)
Post by: tehmarken on March 21, 2010, 10:39:35 pm
Post by: kaypy on March 21, 2010, 11:00:59 pm
Is there something special about transparency? After editing the creature sheet in MSPaint and saving it, now all creatures show with the magenta block around them. Is there a specific color transparency is hardcoded as that maybe I messed up with my save?In the current release, you need either:
(1) Magenta as transparent, in a PNG with no transparency
or
(2) Transparent as transparent in a PNG with transparency
Your software may decide to save it with transparency without telling you...
Post by: jonask84 on March 22, 2010, 03:28:23 am
Post by: Rose on March 22, 2010, 04:16:01 am
Is there something special about transparency? After editing the creature sheet in MSPaint and saving it, now all creatures show with the magenta block around them. Is there a specific color transparency is hardcoded as that maybe I messed up with my save?In the current release, you need either:
(1) Magenta as transparent, in a PNG with no transparency
or
(2) Transparent as transparent in a PNG with transparency
Your software may decide to save it with transparency without telling you...
no longer true in the allegro 4.9 branch, where magenta and transparency can both be used at once.
when an image is loaded, magenta is simply converted to transparency.
Post by: Captain Mayday on March 22, 2010, 07:29:44 am
Post by: Truean on March 22, 2010, 12:53:23 pm
Pardon my link, but I was hoping you might add your stonesense/sprite knowledge and opinions to my thread:
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=51441.0
If you would be so kind as to look, I could really use your expertise in making multi tile isometric sprites.
Post by: Beefmo on March 22, 2010, 08:54:31 pm
But i thought i'd chuck it out here for some CC anyway while i await a response:
initial mockup:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest.png)
after cleanup/detailing:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest2.png)
Post by: Retro on March 22, 2010, 08:59:38 pm
I got an urge today, to try my hand at making a mountain tileset, bare in mind this relies entirely if jonas can make it so SS uses a random tile for rough stone walls/ramps/floors etc...
But i thought i'd chuck it out here for some CC anyway while i await a response:
initial mockup:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest.png)
after cleanup/detailing:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest2.png)
:0
Post by: Innominate on March 22, 2010, 10:08:51 pm
Seriously awesome. Please to be adding random tiles so we can have it.I got an urge today, to try my hand at making a mountain tileset, bare in mind this relies entirely if jonas can make it so SS uses a random tile for rough stone walls/ramps/floors etc...
But i thought i'd chuck it out here for some CC anyway while i await a response:
initial mockup:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest.png)
after cleanup/detailing:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest2.png)
:0
It should only need a few small changes. Although there would be some issues with finding a hash function, given that it would have to use absolute co-ordinates, otherwise the mountain would change if the relative co-ordinates were shifted, which is pretty obviously undesirable.
Post by: KillHour on March 22, 2010, 11:10:26 pm
I got an urge today, to try my hand at making a mountain tileset, bare in mind this relies entirely if jonas can make it so SS uses a random tile for rough stone walls/ramps/floors etc...
But i thought i'd chuck it out here for some CC anyway while i await a response:
initial mockup:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest.png)
after cleanup/detailing:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest2.png)
HOOOLY Shit. That's awesome.
Post by: Rose on March 23, 2010, 02:50:33 am
I got an urge today, to try my hand at making a mountain tileset, bare in mind this relies entirely if jonask can make it so SS uses a random tile for rough stone walls/ramps/floors etc...
while there is no current support for random wall tiles, Dwarf Fortress already has random floors, which stonesense supports.
I'll see what can be done about the other stuff.
Post by: zwei on March 23, 2010, 04:00:51 am
I got an urge today, to try my hand at making a mountain tileset, bare in mind this relies entirely if jonas can make it so SS uses a random tile for rough stone walls/ramps/floors etc...
after cleanup/detailing:(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/mountaintiletest2.png)
Artifact tileset, oh my!
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 23, 2010, 08:53:29 am
Post by: jonask84 on March 23, 2010, 09:28:55 am
Could someone help me with this stonesense thing. I tried turning on stonesense when it said "unable to set graphics mode" I did everything right, what do I do? :'(
Of course, that's why we're here :)
Did you try changing the options in the init.txt file? The set resolution might be too high, or you've got it set for fullscreen mode or something like that.
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 23, 2010, 09:40:43 am
[HEIGHT:600] I dont know if it is on full screen. I cant find where it says it.
My screen resolution is 1024x600.
EDIT: Wait, I got it working, YEAH, thanks! ;D
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 23, 2010, 10:23:30 am
Post by: SeigeOps on March 23, 2010, 11:16:37 am
Oh, and you know when you mine out your fort and there are boulders that you cant build anything on, how do you get rid of them. :P
The easiest way to remove stone created while mining is just mass dump them into a single tile garbage zone (i->g). This is also the most time consuming and labor intensive way since everyone will be hauling rocks through your fort. (Put your dump near your masonshops/craftshops to crank out rock blocks/rock crafts to make it more lucrative; just remember to unforbid the stones after dumping them(d->b->c). Or into the nearest magma pipe/bottomless pit if you so wish).
The quickest way is to edit the raws and make the rocks boil. Don't ask me how as I've never done it before and doing it wrong supposedly kills dwarves in the aftermath and has nasty side effects to your fort buildings.
If you're talking 'bout the naturally occurring ones outside smoothing them is the quickest way to removing them.
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 23, 2010, 11:19:33 am
Post by: Mephansteras on March 23, 2010, 11:42:52 am
I got an urge today, to try my hand at making a mountain tileset, bare in mind this relies entirely if jonas can make it so SS uses a random tile for rough stone walls/ramps/floors etc...
But i thought i'd chuck it out here for some CC anyway while i await a response:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
First off, that looks awesome. However, it looks less like a natural stone formation and more like an ancient ruin. I think it's the obvious block nature of the components. Not the tile-aspect, the fact that the stone looks like it's a jumble of rocks instead of generally solid rock with some loose stones.
Can stonesense differentiate between constructed rough rock walls and natural rough rock? If it can, I'd say go with a more solid-but-rough look for natural stone and that awesome blocky look for rough constructed stone.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 23, 2010, 02:13:48 pm
First off, that looks awesome. However, it looks less like a natural stone formation and more like an ancient ruin. I think it's the obvious block nature of the components. Not the tile-aspect, the fact that the stone looks like it's a jumble of rocks instead of generally solid rock with some loose stones.
And also the mossy bits. DF actually handles moss in its own way ("spatters"), so moss probably shouldn't be an intrinsic part of those tiles. I'm not sure if Beefmo was going for natural rough stone or constructed rough stone, but I agree with you that those tiles better represent constructed rough stone.
Post by: Beefmo on March 23, 2010, 02:59:44 pm
These are meant to be natural stone walls etc. So after that kip im energised, so ill go start from the mock again and see if i can keep that feel.
I was aware of how DF handles moss coverings, but i felt they needed a little detail to make them more natural. Maybe thats not helping. I had this vision in my head of a propper moss covering (if it can be implimented) as an almost full covering of all the sky facing surfaces, ill try to whip one up while im working from the mock again.
Thanks again for the feedback!
EDIT:
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/3232mtilesetest2.png)
Trying to get a "rockier" mock going. Softened the inner floor tile edges, got rid of alot if busy lined on the wall block faces (although it seems i added more in ><) tried using the bottoms of the floor tiles to create more jagged edges an upped the contrast a fair bit (although probably too much).
Might try introducing more curved edgs in the floor tiles to try and combat the constructed look.. hmmm.... *contemplates*
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 23, 2010, 08:19:39 pm
Post by: Beefmo on March 23, 2010, 08:43:55 pm
Think of it as nasty fart gas that rotting creatures/food/zombies give off. It gives your dwarves a bad thought for going through it.
Post by: Retro on March 23, 2010, 08:56:34 pm
Post by: Beefmo on March 23, 2010, 11:41:54 pm
But I really appreciate all your thoughts on this.
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/3232mtileset31.png)
This is working with the second mockup trying to get away from the constructed feel. Trying to smooth transitions and the harsh edges in the floor tiles. But fast post this must be!... for reasons unknown.
I'll edit in replies in a sec, but mostly i agree with all of you! :P
Post by: Khalan on March 23, 2010, 11:50:27 pm
Post by: Retro on March 24, 2010, 12:42:27 am
<image>
This is working with the second mockup trying to get away from the constructed feel. Trying to smooth transitions and the harsh edges in the floor tiles. But fast post this must be!... for reasons unknown.
It definitely looks smoother with the softer colours (I get that the last version was a rougher version but still). I still feel like what I circled below in red comes across as 'two separate stones stuck together' rather than 'one big sheer rock dug into,' whereas the bit circled in green has the latter effect. So I guess just lightening the internal outlines in some areas would help? The overall thing I think of mentally is that the rock face needs to be all one sheer face even if it is hastily dug; the separate-looking rocks are what's making it look out of place.
But please continue to hog the thread! :D We love your work. Not much else happening in here anyhow.
Post by: Rose on March 24, 2010, 03:22:41 am
(http://pix.sparky-s.ie/c0236.png)
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 24, 2010, 06:00:23 am
Post by: Rose on March 24, 2010, 06:26:26 am
Is that a waterfall mist I see down next to Zon and Imush? :o
nope, it's an ocean wave.
waterfalls look like this:
(imagine an epic waterfall here)
Post by: buckets on March 24, 2010, 06:39:27 am
Is that a waterfall mist I see down next to Zon and Imush? :o
nope, it's an ocean wave.
waterfalls look like this:
*image*
I, uh...
uh...
Post by: jonask84 on March 24, 2010, 06:46:52 am
(Japa, quit spoiling their surprises ;) (Great work tho buddy!))
Post by: Rose on March 24, 2010, 08:58:13 am
Post by: Petr Ga on March 24, 2010, 11:42:52 am
Post by: Solifuge on March 24, 2010, 12:45:03 pm
1) How clunky would it be to animate certain tiles? I'm thinking for simple things like water/waterfalls, primarily, but hypothetically for occupied/in-use workshops too.
2) Same goes for Coordinate-Based Random Tiles as in #1. You could streamline the functionality to make "animated" tiles cycle through its 4 possible appearances once per frame, whereas static tiles would be assigned one of those based on their coordinates as a Random Seed.
3) Is that Ocean Wave a particle-based overlay, or is it in tiles? Also, if particles how is the increasing density being calculated? I've got a WIP of a floor-type water tile for waves, with dynamic edges (the little bit of froth at the head of a wave, etc), which might pair well with this.
4) Tile Shadows: A bit tricky, but Lit vs. Unlit tiles would be a nice thing to represent. It becomes tricky with the vertical facings, though, as they should draw their Lit/Unlitness from the square they face, or all vertical faces will be shadowed.
Post by: Retro on March 24, 2010, 01:58:09 pm
4) Tile Shadows: A bit tricky, but Lit vs. Unlit tiles would be a nice thing to represent. It becomes tricky with the vertical facings, though, as they should draw their Lit/Unlitness from the square they face, or all vertical faces will be shadowed.
Hopefully this would be a toggle-able feature? When you have a lot of interior to your fortress you want to look at it :(
This all sounds pretty awesome though.
Post by: xoen on March 24, 2010, 05:23:18 pm
Quote
I, uh...
uh...
:D :D :D :D , buckets, i love your reply, man! 8)
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 24, 2010, 08:30:18 pm
Post by: xoen on March 24, 2010, 08:44:47 pm
http://pix.sparky-s.ie/c0236.png
and all i can say it OMGGGWOW.
So, actually same "tiletypes" may differ visually regarding of what's around 'em?
(i am unable to express it in better way)
This is insane! Effects may be just unbelieveable.
Post by: Solifuge on March 24, 2010, 09:47:37 pm
Sorry for hogging the thread ><
But I really appreciate all your thoughts on this.
(http://i582.photobucket.com/albums/ss262/beefmo/3232mtileset31.png)
This is working with the second mockup trying to get away from the constructed feel. Trying to smooth transitions and the harsh edges in the floor tiles. But fast post this must be!... for reasons unknown.
I'll edit in replies in a sec, but mostly i agree with all of you! :P
I very much enjoy your "hogging the thread". If this is what happens when you do it, please do it more often... I don't believe anyone is complaining. :P
I'm definitely liking the organic shapes here, and with multiple textures it adds a lot of character to the stone. Reminds me of FFTA in a very good way too (some of the best pixel art of modern titles). Since I'm pretty sure everyone here will agree that this stuff is pretty badass, I'll do what I can to provide a critique. Here goes:
1) The dithering stands out in comparison to the other existing graphical assets, though in its own right looks just fine. It will make it tougher to create finer textures, though, as you'll need to suggest texture with larger shapes.
2) Remember that floors will sometimes be free-hanging, though those can be given separate graphics assets as well. Are you using separate floor tiles for the top tiles than you are between 2 stacked walls? If so, the same method would work for free-hanging floors, with hard edges on the bottom, and smooth transitions on the top. Hard transitions on top and bottom would work for thin walkways too.
3) Since these tiles aren't contained to a shear cube, some of the floors (namely the middle two floor tiles with the vertically projecting stone bits) occlude a lot of the tiles behind them, which would make it tough to see 1-tile cave openings and such (as evidenced by the topmost "cave" in the mockup). These floors also would look strange with sprites standing on them, since they're the most uneven floors. You may want to reduce the vertical projections a little bit, and keep them within a few pixels deviation from the main cube shape, to keep them from occluding too much.
Always make sure that the graphics don't interfere with understanding what's going on in the game. Anywho, it's looking great, and I'm excited to see where you go with these graphics!
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2010, 01:00:18 am
Concepts/Questions for Da Team:buildings are already animated, but I don't think stonesense can currently tell if a workshop is in use.
1) How clunky would it be to animate certain tiles? I'm thinking for simple things like water/waterfalls, primarily, but hypothetically for occupied/in-use workshops too.
as for the terrain, it's not done yet, but it is planned.
2) Same goes for Coordinate-Based Random Tiles as in #1. You could streamline the functionality to make "animated" tiles cycle through its 4 possible appearances once per frame, whereas static tiles would be assigned one of those based on their coordinates as a Random Seed.or more likely cycle through 4 sets of 4 random tiles.
3) Is that Ocean Wave a particle-based overlay, or is it in tiles? Also, if particles how is the increasing density being calculated? I've got a WIP of a floor-type water tile for waves, with dynamic edges (the little bit of froth at the head of a wave, etc), which might pair well with this.right now it's particle based.
DF atmospheric effects have a density that ranges from 0 to 100. right now, that number is being used for the number of particles, but it can be just as easily used for the opacity of a single tile, or for choosing from a set of different tiles.
right now, ocean waves are not supported, only the froth when they hit the shore, and the water on the ground that get's thrown up.
4) Tile Shadows: A bit tricky, but Lit vs. Unlit tiles would be a nice thing to represent. It becomes tricky with the vertical facings, though, as they should draw their Lit/Unlitness from the square they face, or all vertical faces will be shadowed.yes, this is tricky. another problem is that outside walls would still be lit on the inside.
upd - i realized what's on that pic
http://pix.sparky-s.ie/c0236.png
and all i can say it OMGGGWOW.
So, actually same "tiletypes" may differ visually regarding of what's around 'em?
(i am unable to express it in better way)
This is insane! Effects may be just unbelieveable.
no, they simply differ visually regarding where they are.
Post by: Beefmo on March 25, 2010, 05:02:08 pm
I agree on the dithering, I tried to add in some more colours and remove the dithering earlier but it seemed to make the stone wash out too much. I really need to work on my palettes and contrast to get it looking good >< I'll probably start from scratch again...
With the floor tiles, I tried to use the juts and overlaps to try and break up the grid effect. But it seems that some of the prominent overlaps (aka the phallis stone as my girlfriend calls it... well not in those words) seem to enhance the repeateating pattern by being TOO prominent. I'm using the same floor tiles for inbetween the wall blocks and the tops, so I was trying to get a working compromise so they were able to work in all situations. Having the darker bottom edge for the case where they would be floating floors, some still darker edges on some of the overhangs for when they were top edges and inbetween's and lighter top edges to try to get them to blend as expanses of floors.
Maybe if one of the proggies can get transition tiles working out I might be able to ditch the blocky uneven floors and get a smoother look for the wide expanses but still keep the rugged edges for cliff edges etc...
I guess i just got this image in my head the other morning and though "MAN! THAT WOULD MAKE AN AWESOME LOOKING CLIFF FORT!" .. but sadly it's being harder to get the image out of my head than first thought :P
I might start from scratch and try for still smoother walls like those in FFT. But's going to be trying to keep the transitions that are probably going to kill me :P
Post by: Greendogo on March 25, 2010, 06:38:53 pm
Post by: spacemonkey on March 25, 2010, 06:46:15 pm
I have this set up on a dual screen system, DF on one screen, Stonesense on the other, works really well.
Any plans to include stock pile items? I would be pretty cool to have the stockpiles fill with barrels of beer.
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 25, 2010, 09:24:53 pm
That be miasma!
Think of it as nasty fart gas that rotting creatures/food/zombies give off. It gives your dwarves a bad thought for going through it.
Yeah, but what is the red stuff in the game that lays on the ground.
Oh, and you have to get items in the stonesense and it would be awesome if u could play the game just on stonesense, it would be easyer than modifying it in the game then having to pull up stonesense and just watch it, then heaven forbid seeing a flaw and have to pull up the game again and fix it. *sigh*, what a workout. :D
Post by: Retro on March 25, 2010, 09:29:15 pm
Yeah, but what is the red stuff in the game that lays on the ground.
You can use the 'k' key to look around and see what things are.
Post by: buckets on March 26, 2010, 12:26:12 am
Post by: kaypy on March 26, 2010, 03:42:03 am
Concepts/Questions for Da Team:It largely depends on the degree of animation that you want. If you wanted it animated in the same way as the buildings/creatures, then it would start to get expensive, fast (due to many more sprite configs being needed). A 'load a different tile each map load' style of animation (like buildings used to have) would probably be cheaper
1) How clunky would it be to animate certain tiles? I'm thinking for simple things like water/waterfalls, primarily, but hypothetically for occupied/in-use workshops too.
2) Same goes for Coordinate-Based Random Tiles as in #1. You could streamline the functionality to make "animated" tiles cycle through its 4 possible appearances once per frame, whereas static tiles would be assigned one of those based on their coordinates as a Random Seed.
Quote
4) Tile Shadows: A bit tricky, but Lit vs. Unlit tiles would be a nice thing to represent. It becomes tricky with the vertical facings, though, as they should draw their Lit/Unlitness from the square they face, or all vertical faces will be shadowed.BatCountry was having a play with this earlier. One of the issues is that we don't load tiles into memory unless there's something on them, so they wind up not being available for neighbors to check for shadows.
I was experimenting with whether recycling the entire block volume might make keeping all the blocks reasonable, but it still hurts performance pretty bad.
Post by: CobaltKobold on March 27, 2010, 12:13:08 am
I knocked out cardinal waterfall tiles, SENW, 6-1 (7/7 is obviously going to just be normal)hmm, stall.
(http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/1051/cardinalwaterfalls.png)
Post by: Rose on March 27, 2010, 02:42:15 am
buildings and landscape tiles can now be colored automatically according to their own material, the material of the ground under them, or of the vein running through them (if there is any).
this means you can have a tile for a gem cluster that will look correct weather it's a cluster of rubies in granite, or diamonds in obsidian.
and you don't have to make a different tile for every possible material a workshop can be made from. you just have to separate the different color able parts.
Post by: buckets on March 27, 2010, 04:59:26 am
Good news everyone!
buildings and landscape tiles can now be colored automatically according to their own material, the material of the ground under them, or of the vein running through them (if there is any).
this means you can have a tile for a gem cluster that will look correct weather it's a cluster of rubies in granite, or diamonds in obsidian.
and you don't have to make a different tile for every possible material a workshop can be made from. you just have to separate the different color able parts.
Does this work for constructions too?
Post by: Petr Ga on March 27, 2010, 05:44:03 am
one thing: display sometimes blink, like swapping two different images. is there a way out?
I use 40d19.2 build
Post by: Petr Ga on March 27, 2010, 05:50:07 am
what's fixed: it should be possible to run stonesense and other therapist-dfhack simultaneous. it hangs/crashes now, sadly
Post by: Rose on March 27, 2010, 07:25:21 am
Japa: since there is new version of dfhack, could you please add that to project and make 40d19.2 release again?
what's fixed: it should be possible to run stonesense and other therapist-dfhack simultaneous. it hangs/crashes now, sadly
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1947
!!!WARNING! UNTESTED AND QUITE POSSIBLY UNSTABLE!!!
Does this work for constructions too?
yes.
Post by: Petr Ga on March 27, 2010, 07:38:18 am
Japa: since there is new version of dfhack, could you please add that to project and make 40d19.2 release again?
what's fixed: it should be possible to run stonesense and other therapist-dfhack simultaneous. it hangs/crashes now, sadly
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1947
!!!WARNING! UNTESTED AND QUITE POSSIBLY UNSTABLE!!!
works like a charm!
flicking is over (it happened only in follow df mode and it is over now) and if someone run df -> dt w/dh -> ss, it runs. I didnt tested it deeply, though.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Petr Ga on March 27, 2010, 07:41:10 am
Post by: Nakanja on March 27, 2010, 10:43:03 am
I tried making some sprites:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: SeigeOps on March 27, 2010, 12:19:22 pm
Cool program. :)
I tried making some sprites:(barrels & bins)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Those are pretty good; although I always imagined the bins to be taller than that, closer to shipping crates.
Too bad we can't track objects yet. Keep them until we do though.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 27, 2010, 12:21:49 pm
Cool program. :)
I tried making some sprites:(barrels & bins)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Those are pretty good; although I always imagined the bins to be taller than that, closer to shipping crates.
Yeah. I like the barrels, and the work on both is good, but those are very short bins.
Post by: zwei on March 27, 2010, 12:45:12 pm
Cool program. :)
I tried making some sprites:(barrels & bins)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Those are pretty good; although I always imagined the bins to be taller than that, closer to shipping crates.
Yeah. I like the barrels, and the work on both is good, but those are very short bins.
To me, bins look very weird, mostly because I always imagined them to look like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
or this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
or maybe:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Basically, not cratelike at all. Instead just round bin with two handles to allow carrying it (or square one with harness so that dwarf can carry those ten rock blocks in it with ease.)
Post by: Nakanja on March 27, 2010, 01:11:09 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wasn't sure what size would be best since the "X" made me think crates, but they'd have to be small enough for one dwarf to carry and they don't block movement. I thought a stockpile all full of big boxes but with dwarves walking through them might look odd.
Post by: Alkyon on March 28, 2010, 02:18:21 am
Post by: Khalan on March 28, 2010, 02:31:04 am
Post by: Petr Ga on March 28, 2010, 02:59:29 am
Replay of movies
so we can watch epic fortress stories or tutorial tips in beautiful enviroment
Post by: Rose on March 28, 2010, 03:04:37 am
Suggestion for StoneSense:
Replay of movies
so we can watch epic fortress stories or tutorial tips in beautiful enviroment
not possible.
movies only store the characters that are displayed. stonesense needs more information than that.
Very nice little tool. Though, one request: Don't use keys on the numpad. I suspect that the refresh rate of Stonesense is inversely proportional to the framerate drop of DF when using it (I don't have the time to read through all the 100+ pages to make sure), so I'd love to drop the refresh rate of Stonesense. However, I play DF on my laptop that has no numpad, so I can't alter the refresh rate using + and - on the numpad. If the standard + and - were used, or if I could change hotkeys, that would be wonderful.
you can always change the refresh rate in the init.
Post by: Alkyon on March 28, 2010, 12:22:56 pm
Isn't the numpad doubled up on your laptop with the normal keys? Eg. press FN+ something else to send the 'numpad +' command?It was on my old laptop, but not on this one. Dell's not the brightest when it comes to laptop keyboard design, as the default state is I had to use FN to get to my function keys. So, until I found the BIOS setting to flip that, I was turning off my wireless card every time I hit F2 to move my camera to the living quarters.
Post by: Khalan on March 28, 2010, 01:47:56 pm
http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/
I've used it before, it works great. Just assign whichever keys you like to the numpad + and - functions.
Post by: Petr Ga on March 28, 2010, 02:06:55 pm
Isn't the numpad doubled up on your laptop with the normal keys? Eg. press FN+ something else to send the 'numpad +' command?It was on my old laptop, but not on this one. Dell's not the brightest when it comes to laptop keyboard design, as the default state is I had to use FN to get to my function keys. So, until I found the BIOS setting to flip that, I was turning off my wireless card every time I hit F2 to move my camera to the living quarters.
I have Dell laptop (Latitude XT table) and numeric /*-+ is for me Fn with 0p;/
but I must press Fn with F4 first, to turn on numlock
hope it helps
Post by: Alkyon on March 28, 2010, 06:18:42 pm
That's a shame. You can change the refresh rate in the init as Japa said, or if you want to be able to adjust it on the fly you could try a free program like KeyTweak:Thanks, changed the refresh to about 1/s, it's a bit slow but I got about a 20% FPS boost from it.
http://webpages.charter.net/krumsick/
I've used it before, it works great. Just assign whichever keys you like to the numpad + and - functions.
Isn't the numpad doubled up on your laptop with the normal keys? Eg. press FN+ something else to send the 'numpad +' command?It was on my old laptop, but not on this one. Dell's not the brightest when it comes to laptop keyboard design, as the default state is I had to use FN to get to my function keys. So, until I found the BIOS setting to flip that, I was turning off my wireless card every time I hit F2 to move my camera to the living quarters.
I have Dell laptop (Latitude XT table) and numeric /*-+ is for me Fn with 0p;/
but I must press Fn with F4 first, to turn on numlock
hope it helps
FN+F4 merely dims my screen and FN+0p;/ does nothing for me. The Inspiron models seems to simply lack numpads.
Post by: James.Denholm on March 28, 2010, 07:15:32 pm
The Inspiron models seems to simply lack numpads.
I wonder what inspired that idea...
Post by: Retro on March 29, 2010, 01:04:10 am
ed- Actually, if this by chance does happen to be possible, would it be possible to have a toggle key that views said designations as they would be dug? It would be an immensely helpful tool if so.
Post by: peterix on March 29, 2010, 01:27:47 am
Will Stonesense ever be able to show mining designations? Preferably in their to-be-dug state, being able to differentiate between regular dig-designations and up/down-stair designations, for example. I feel like this might be a 'no,' but never hurts to ask.It actually is possible and was possible from the start. Also, in the more recent versions of dfhack, you can make just about any kind of designation (unless it requires creating new objects that is).
Post by: Petr Ga on March 29, 2010, 03:42:42 am
FN+F4 merely dims my screen and FN+0p;/ does nothing for me. The Inspiron models seems to simply lack numpads.
what model is it?
Post by: Petr Ga on March 29, 2010, 03:47:40 am
have you a plan to merge stonesense with dfhack 0.2.0? it supports multiple clients properly now, so i hope it helps with simultaneous runs, which are now somewhat laggy
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2010, 04:16:28 am
Japa:
have you a plan to merge stonesense with dfhack 0.2.0? it supports multiple clients properly now, so i hope it helps with simultaneous runs, which are now somewhat laggy
Japa: since there is new version of dfhack, could you please add that to project and make 40d19.2 release again?
what's fixed: it should be possible to run stonesense and other therapist-dfhack simultaneous. it hangs/crashes now, sadly
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1947
!!!WARNING! UNTESTED AND QUITE POSSIBLY UNSTABLE!!!
I already did :/
Post by: Petr Ga on March 29, 2010, 04:31:21 am
anyway, it works but need some workaround - first therapist, then stonesense
Post by: KernelM on March 29, 2010, 06:19:24 am
Suggestion for StoneSense:
Replay of movies
so we can watch epic fortress stories or tutorial tips in beautiful enviroment
not possible.
movies only store the characters that are displayed. stonesense needs more information than that.
You can't playback DF movies but how about having the ability to record movies within Stonesense? That would be awsome.
Anyway, great work you guys are doing. This is defiantly my most favorite DF visualiser. :D
Post by: Retro on March 29, 2010, 01:10:51 pm
Will Stonesense ever be able to show mining designations? Preferably in their to-be-dug state, being able to differentiate between regular dig-designations and up/down-stair designations, for example. I feel like this might be a 'no,' but never hurts to ask.It actually is possible and was possible from the start. Also, in the more recent versions of dfhack, you can make just about any kind of designation (unless it requires creating new objects that is).
In that case I'll rephrase: Will Stonesense ever make use of this DF Hack feature? Being able to view your fort as if it was dug before actually digging it based on the designations would be unreal, and switch me from a user who opens up Stonesense with DF paused just for screenies to a user who plays with both windows open simultaneously.
Post by: peterix on March 29, 2010, 02:54:05 pm
Showing designations should be just fine (similar to DF).Will Stonesense ever be able to show mining designations? Preferably in their to-be-dug state, being able to differentiate between regular dig-designations and up/down-stair designations, for example. I feel like this might be a 'no,' but never hurts to ask.It actually is possible and was possible from the start. Also, in the more recent versions of dfhack, you can make just about any kind of designation (unless it requires creating new objects that is).
In that case I'll rephrase: Will Stonesense ever make use of this DF Hack feature? Being able to view your fort as if it was dug before actually digging it based on the designations would be unreal, and switch me from a user who opens up Stonesense with DF paused just for screenies to a user who plays with both windows open simultaneously.
Designating things with the mouse in Dungeon Keeper style would be IMHO harder, because stonesense's input and hit-scan code isn't really prepared for that (it's a much harder problem than it seems to be and touches pretty much every part of stonesense ... maybe with the exception of rendering).
Showing the designations as if they were already 'completed' needs a LOT of data entry. Somebody has to determine how the tile types change when the designated job is done, how that affects the surroundings and all that for every type of designation. That's a lot of really boring work because there are a few hundred of tile types, and I expect those to both change and grow in number in DF 2010.
It's possible. Just don't hold your breath, because it might take quite some time. We'll have enough work with just making things compatible with the new DF release for a while.
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on March 29, 2010, 09:31:04 pm
Post by: Solifuge on March 29, 2010, 10:55:20 pm
I believe it was only supported in an experimental build, and I never tested it. Is that one still around, guys?
Post by: Rose on March 30, 2010, 02:21:31 am
I really REALLY want to say [Alt]+[F4]... but no.branches have a habit of not getting deleted, so yes, it's still there.
I believe it was only supported in an experimental build, and I never tested it. Is that one still around, guys?
Post by: kaypy on March 30, 2010, 07:37:19 am
Post by: buckets on March 30, 2010, 08:21:51 am
The item stuff is pretty close to ready to go, in and of itself, but it relies on a newer version of DFHack than is on the trunk. Once that update gets done, then items will likely follow shortly.
I'm not too sure that's a good idea, wouldn't attempting to display a couple of hundred thousand stones slow down Stonesence a little?
Post by: Retro on March 30, 2010, 08:38:09 am
Post by: kaypy on March 30, 2010, 09:13:47 am
I was also able to do some optimizations of the scan cycle so that it will load in new items in preference to scanning the existing ones. So that the battles get the ludicrous gibs they deserve, rather than anonymous objects that only later turn out to be goblin subsections.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 01, 2010, 03:00:48 am
And may I request(If it is feasable) that anti Escher lines are only drawn on solids and not transparents? So in the case of say Beefmo's recent mockups, the lines don't float around off the side of the rocks; or in the case of of having trimmed corners, the lines dont suggest that nearby floortiles are part of the top.
Post by: belannaer on April 01, 2010, 04:54:47 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on April 02, 2010, 02:46:30 am
Is it currently possible to have a floor tile have a seperate image if it is on top of a pillar?(not a support, but the part of wall displayed as O) Or for any of the directional wall tiles?(╒, ╓, ╛, ╜, ╕, ╖, ╘, ╙, ╔, ╗, ╚, ╝, ╠, ╣, ╦, ╩, or ╬?) If not, I'd like to see this in future versions.
And may I request(If it is feasable) that anti Escher lines are only drawn on solids and not transparents? So in the case of say Beefmo's recent mockups, the lines don't float around off the side of the rocks; or in the case of of having trimmed corners, the lines dont suggest that nearby floortiles are part of the top.
both are already in.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 02, 2010, 06:57:38 am
I may have... misspoke when trying to explain the first question...Is it currently possible to have a floor tile have a seperate image if it is on top of a pillar?(not a support, but the part of wall displayed as O) Or for any of the directional wall tiles?(╒, ╓, ╛, ╜, ╕, ╖, ╘, ╙, ╔, ╗, ╚, ╝, ╠, ╣, ╦, ╩, or ╬?) If not, I'd like to see this in future versions.
both are already in.
I meant to ask; Can a floor look different than another identical floor if the only difference is what the tile underneath contains?
If that is what you have already answered, how might I go about setting this up for floortiles above contructed walls?
Post by: jonask84 on April 02, 2010, 08:34:55 am
I guess we're all really busy playing with DF2010 now, but this is what's going on:
We will be hard at work to try and make Stonesense compatible with the new release as soon as possible. There are of course some hurdles, but I know Peterix of dfHack is already working on mapping out the memory. Once that is done, we need to tweak Stonesense to fix any unexpected incompatibilities or similar.
So I guess for now, the best thing to do is just to play and have fun with the new version! (Oh and throw a donation over Toady's way if you can, they've been working really hard on this)
@belannaer: wow! impressive work man, can't wait to see when it's done :)
Post by: LoneJedi7 on April 02, 2010, 05:18:40 pm
We will be hard at work to try and make Stonesense compatible with the new release as soon as possible.
Sweet! Can't wait to try out stonesense with DF 2010.
keep up the good work.
Post by: TheStratovarian on April 03, 2010, 09:23:13 am
Post by: belannaer on April 03, 2010, 09:57:35 am
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/Dwarf%20Fortress/goblins.png)
Some new stuff, might contain spoilers.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on April 05, 2010, 09:44:48 am
Of course, Stonesense doesn't work with DF2010 yet. But we're working on it!
(that is, Peterix and the dfHack guys are working on mapping the memory)
Post by: buckets on April 05, 2010, 09:52:17 am
Post by: belannaer on April 05, 2010, 11:02:00 am
Fucking damn it belannaer! Spoilers! >:(
Oh yeah, spoilered them now.
Of course, Stonesense doesn't work with DF2010 yet. But we're working on it!
(that is, Peterix and the dfHack guys are working on mapping the memory)
Hopefully that'll happen soon since Stonesense just adds soooo much to fortress building experience.
Post by: jonask84 on April 05, 2010, 07:52:23 pm
Hopefully that'll happen soon since Stonesense just adds soooo much to fortress building experience.
It might be a little while till we have all we used to have. Discovering the new memory layouts is obviously an incremental job, so it's likely we might have some 'partial' releases.
(DF Therapist is out now, in a partial mode. They only needed the professions and skills tho, we need a little more ;) )
Post by: Viken on April 06, 2010, 07:28:28 am
No Dwarf Fortress executable found".
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've wanted to try Stonesense out for a while now. Thanks.
Post by: jonask84 on April 06, 2010, 07:57:10 am
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've wanted to try Stonesense out for a while now. Thanks.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1947
Try this experimental release Japa made a few weeks back, it should be d18 compatible (Stonesense Granite isn't).
Hope that solves it for you :)
Post by: Viken on April 06, 2010, 08:16:08 am
Post by: Viken on April 06, 2010, 08:33:15 am
Post by: Bellerophon on April 08, 2010, 11:18:47 am
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've wanted to try Stonesense out for a while now. Thanks.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1947
Try this experimental release Japa made a few weeks back, it should be d18 compatible (Stonesense Granite isn't).
Hope that solves it for you :)
Arrrg, this just crashes as it starts on Win7. Anyone else having this?
The Granite release starts fine, it just obviously can't see my d18.
Post by: Rose on April 09, 2010, 02:20:52 am
Post by: Bellerophon on April 09, 2010, 01:48:18 pm
what videocard do you got?
ATI Radeon 4850.
Post by: peterix on April 09, 2010, 02:58:27 pm
If you use the OS provided driver, get the vendor provided one. MS doesn't like OpenGL. This applies to both Vista and 7.what videocard do you got?
ATI Radeon 4850.
Post by: Bellerophon on April 10, 2010, 01:23:15 am
If you use the OS provided driver, get the vendor provided one. MS doesn't like OpenGL. This applies to both Vista and 7.
Nah, I'm using the ATi driver.
I'm quite fond of Stonesense, so I've downgraded to d16 for the moment and that works fine.
Post by: jonask84 on April 10, 2010, 03:38:55 pm
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I've wanted to try Stonesense out for a while now. Thanks.
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=1947
Try this experimental release Japa made a few weeks back, it should be d18 compatible (Stonesense Granite isn't).
Hope that solves it for you :)
Arrrg, this just crashes as it starts on Win7. Anyone else having this?
The Granite release starts fine, it just obviously can't see my d18.
Glad to hear you like Stonesense :)
We're working on merging the accelerated graphics work that Japa's done along with the d31 support.
This means we will _have_ to fix any issues hehe
So hang in there mate :)
Post by: troodon on April 10, 2010, 05:59:43 pm
Post by: Rose on April 11, 2010, 01:07:52 am
in other news, the new version of stonsense is getting close to working condition.
Post by: Retro on April 11, 2010, 08:58:35 am
in other news, the new version of stonsense is getting close to working condition.
Hell yes. I can't bring myself to commit to a fort anymore without using Stonesense to help me visualize what I'm working on. It definitely adds something for me.
Post by: Maxxeh on April 11, 2010, 05:35:25 pm
I want to see my military uselessly chase a camel around the fort in stonesense!
Again, the only thing that would make this better for me, would be the inclusion of blood and vomit decals! (even if items were enabled, JUST for them and nothing else!) It would really set the tone of massive fights!
Post by: Rose on April 12, 2010, 09:51:15 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Slate.
it is coming soon.
Post by: Thundrim on April 12, 2010, 11:37:35 am
---
Post by: Truean on April 12, 2010, 11:43:01 am
But are those items or floor tiles?
Post by: Footkerchief on April 12, 2010, 11:52:03 am
Post by: zwei on April 12, 2010, 01:16:44 pm
wow, just wow.
But are those items or floor tiles?
nah, just stockpile markers. It is still cool however!
Post by: Indricotherium on April 12, 2010, 01:46:06 pm
Thanks for all the work on this guys, it also really helps to sell DF to non-DFers.
Post by: Shima on April 12, 2010, 03:35:18 pm
Post by: Maxxeh on April 12, 2010, 06:15:05 pm
yeah 3dvis would be nice, but I use this almost contantly, so I'm happy! lol
Post by: Greiger on April 12, 2010, 06:19:35 pm
Anyway, keep up the good work! Can't wait to view the caverns in glorious isometric glory.
Post by: atomfullerene on April 12, 2010, 06:55:22 pm
Post by: GFXiNXS on April 12, 2010, 08:16:22 pm
GENTLEMEN!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Slate.
it is coming soon.
Are you trying to tell us it is slated for release?
Post by: soul4hdwn on April 12, 2010, 09:03:26 pm
*PUNishes the bad joke with a flood of magma*GENTLEMEN!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Slate.
it is coming soon.
Are you trying to tell us it is slated for release?
Post by: thvaz on April 12, 2010, 09:31:52 pm
Post by: buckets on April 12, 2010, 10:10:43 pm
*PUNishes the bad joke with a flood of magma*GENTLEMEN!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Slate.
it is coming soon.
Are you trying to tell us it is slated for release?
Hey stop picking on GFXiNXS.
Post by: Komdour on April 13, 2010, 12:08:18 am
Post by: Eagle0600 on April 13, 2010, 02:21:53 am
Post by: Gauphastus on April 13, 2010, 04:20:25 am
Keep it up.
Post by: James.Denholm on April 13, 2010, 06:02:01 am
wow, just wow.
But are those items or floor tiles?
nah, just stockpile markers. It is still cool however!
But wait! Yes, there are stockpile markers, as represented by the black lines, but look! LOOK!
Not at me, you fool, the picture! Gaze upon the... the... CORNERS OF THE TILES!
Cast your eyes upon the big rooms, and then the upper-left main corridor! THE CORRIDOR!
Could it be... Could it be?
Do my eyes deceive me?
Is this even a possibility?
Burrows?
Spoiler: Disclamer. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on April 13, 2010, 10:40:17 am
Will the new version of stonesense identify castes other than just male and female? Say if somebody has a creature that has different coloration based on caste, would it be possible to make a sprite swap that has a different scale color for each caste? Like say Red, Green, Blue, White and Black as an example totally pulled out of thin air that has absolutely nothing to do with what I may or may not have done.
Post by: KillHour on April 13, 2010, 10:46:33 am
Ok, a stonesense creature sprite question;
Will the new version of stonesense identify castes other than just male and female? Say if somebody has a creature that has different coloration based on caste, would it be possible to make a sprite swap that has a different scale color for each caste? Like say Red, Green, Blue, White and Black as an example totally pulled out of thin air that has absolutely nothing to do with what I may or may not have done.
Somebody's playing around with dragons....
Post by: Solifuge on April 13, 2010, 11:05:21 am
(because I don't feel like searching 190 pages, even though I'm sure it's been asked before) Is there any plan to implement a GUI into this?
I myself always thought that simple user commands wouldn't be that hard to pass back to DF. However, the first and formost thought in my mind is of how that would affect Tarn's project in the larger sense. I don't want this to become something that people wont play DF without, because the development of Stonesense can't keep pace with the development of the new versions of DF, and all the contriubtors to Stonesense can't guarantee continual work on this project the way Tarn does for DF.
My fear is that, in the long run, too much dependance on Visualizers as a GUI could damage Tarn's income, or his drive to work on DF, when suddenly the visualizer won't work on the newest version. Moreover, DF is still in active development, and this visualizer will require continual work to keep pace with new developments. Already, I've seen a number of posts that people are sticking with old versions just so they can continue to use Stonesense, which is highly worrying to me.
I'd personally love to see this as a full GUI some day, because I know it would improve my experience... but only if Tarn is comfortable with it, and willing to let it happen.
Post by: Footkerchief on April 13, 2010, 11:13:04 am
Post by: KillHour on April 13, 2010, 11:37:50 am
Incidentally, has the Stonesense team come up with any clever way of handling Z-level cutaways vs. irregular cavern ceilings? I think it's going to end up being a major annoyance in both the isometric and overhead perspective.
You could always make 'unimportant' layers transparent. Determining what is unimportant would be the difficult task.
Post by: Jonathan S. Fox on April 13, 2010, 12:04:41 pm
Incidentally, has the Stonesense team come up with any clever way of handling Z-level cutaways vs. irregular cavern ceilings? I think it's going to end up being a major annoyance in both the isometric and overhead perspective.
You could always make 'unimportant' layers transparent. Determining what is unimportant would be the difficult task.
Quick and dirty heuristic for this: If it's solid rock from the current z level down, and there is an opening within ten floors or so, make it transparent.
Post by: toryoom on April 13, 2010, 01:44:52 pm
...After all --while I'm not trying to bring this discussion up again or anything-- it's worth noting that, while it goes without saying that Toady certainly has the right to do as he pleases with his own projects, it's already been mentioned time and again that with such a choice --rightful or not-- there are bound to be large sums of potential players that are going to be alienated by the decision to push even so much as rudimentary complete tile support to what has, over time, come to seem like the absolute furthest back burner.
My point in bringing that kind of thing up again at all, though, is to illustrate that many of the people who are sticking with old versions of DF because of the Visualizer are likely people who wouldn't even be playing DF at all without the Visualizer. They are part of that alienated group who are otherwise awaiting DF to reach a level where it is represented by some kind of graphics. ...So I don't think their actions in sticking with an older version should count statistically as a regression that might damage the development of the core DF program.
Just my 2Ē.
Post by: peterix on April 13, 2010, 01:57:43 pm
So say you have a tunnel that runs at constant depth under a mountain face. You want that to be visible at the same time, because a fight might be going on in there... just plain 1 layer = 1 z-level doesn't work in such cases. Same for the varying cavern ceiling height.
Here's an extreme example: a pyramid inside a pyramid inside a pyramid, etc. Slicing by z-level will never let you see the inner pyramids whole.
Post by: Footkerchief on April 13, 2010, 01:58:29 pm
I imagine that most people who are tied to any graphics system/visualizer enough to where they won't use DF without one are among the --I've found, rather large-- camp of people who wouldn't play DF without some kind of visualization above ASCII levels anyway, no matter how much they like the game's premise. So it's probably not a statistic that could relevantly be counted as 'worrisome' anyhow.
[...]
They are part of that alienated group who are otherwise awaiting DF to reach a level where it is represented by some kind of graphics. ...So I don't think their actions in sticking with an older version should count statistically as a regression that might damage the development of the core DF program.
It may not seem worrisome to you, but it's worrisome to Toady.
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=21806.msg237594#msg237594
http://www.bay12games.com/forum/index.php?topic=21806.msg238694#msg238694
If more than half the player base comes in off a third party interface (and given how much the current interface sucks, and how much it is a source of first time downloaders dropping the game, this is not only imaginable, it is very, very likely), how would it be if it broke at each release? There's no way to mitigate that without my direct involvement -- imagine a release down the line where you can suddenly move dwarven armies around on the world map, with a tactical view and various options. That interface can't write itself, and it wouldn't be a quick patch, though certainly dedicated people, assuming that about whoever is maintaining the front-end at that time, can pull things together rapidly. The pressure on me to work directly with them to get the interface out at the same time as the game itself would likely be immense and disruptive, given what little evidence we have from broken utilities. That's not to say that I often get requests to work with utility writers (other than from the writers themselves, who I generally accommodate), but this would be at a different order of magnitude.
So what's the exact risk there then? First, I don't want to work with other people. So, assuming I don't do that, there's now a constant amount of pressure on me and a general disruption in the forums. The latter could be mitigated with some announcements/guidelines, etc., but the pressure wouldn't go away. Monetarily, it's impossible to say what on earth would happen, but if I supported the third party interface directly pre-release, I'd likely make more money, but I'd be unhappy. If I didn't support it directly, but it was there, I'd still likely make more money, but I'd be unhappy. That's not to say that I don't want to grow the audience and allow more people play the game, but I want to do it in a way with which I feel satisfied, even if that ends up being slower or just plain worse than a hypothetical third party alternative. If someone, as a potential donor, thinks that's unreasonably selfish, that person shouldn't send me any more money than he or she thinks I've deserved for his or her enjoyment, just like everybody else. Despite my dedication to this project, I'm unwilling to sacrifice my enjoyment of working on it for anything, including its quality or even its future release if it comes down to that. That should be plainly obvious. I'm not a slave. Of course I do some things I don't like working on, with the interface and more. I fulfill requests for features I'm not going to use myself. However, again, the current proposal is of a different order of magnitude, with the potential of ruining it for me, and the end result is completely uncertain.
Given what I've seen here and there, it seems like a full third party interface might develop even without my involvement (rather than the various utilities we have now), but in that case, despite the same issues that might come up, at least it won't be a situation of my own creation that I feel a strong obligation to deal with, although the pressure would still be there.
Post by: Mike Mayday on April 13, 2010, 02:47:05 pm
If I didn't support it directly, but it was there, I'd still likely make more money, but I'd be unhappy.
Ok, now I'm worried.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 13, 2010, 02:59:55 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on April 13, 2010, 03:08:12 pm
If I didn't support it directly, but it was there, I'd still likely make more money, but I'd be unhappy.
Ok, now I'm worried.
Well, keep in mind that he means a full third-party interface, complete with menus and so on, which is far beyond anything we have now. Graphics support is still a dev goal: (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/dev.html)
Quote
# Core50, TILESET SUPPORT: Allow graphical tiles to be used for all game objects.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 13, 2010, 03:35:59 pm
Post by: Shiv on April 13, 2010, 04:01:12 pm
Anyhow, I can tell you for sure that without Mayday's, I wouldn't touch DF. I can't tell what on earth is going on with just ASCII characters.
Post by: toryoom on April 13, 2010, 04:20:15 pm
Quote
Given what I've seen here and there, it seems like a full third party interface might develop even without my involvement (rather than the various utilities we have now), but in that case, despite the same issues that might come up, at least it won't be a situation of my own creation that I feel a strong obligation to deal with, although the pressure would still be there.
No offense to Toady, but he seems to have been projecting (in the full quote) a bit further than is humanly possible to do anyway, without a rather high margin of possible error in expectations. Case in point: these comments seem to have been coming off of a discussion proposing his actual (and, in that case, very likely regular) involvement in the creation of an interface ...which --while it would be nice, and everyone involved would likely rejoice if he spontaneously developed a zeal for interfacing, so long as it didn't wholesale kill standard development of the project-- has proven not to be necessary with the current Visualizer. ...A development he acknowledged the possibility of, in the end quote above, along with the upside of that possible outcome for him: in that the pressure of keeping up with the official DF releases from a total left-field interface developer is solely on that developer (and whosoever dains to help them, if it is an open-source community type thing, like Stonesense is). Beyond that,the pressure he expressed anxiousness toward is subjective to the situation, especially since he was predicting feeling it about an as-yet unrealized circumstance. ...After all, that expected pressure might well be alleviated in part or entirely upon finding that, once the predicted circumstance has come to pass, various logistics that were not forseen prove there was no reason to feel obligated to get any more involved than one wanted in the present developments. (like Stonesense! :)
...Basically, that's a long winded way of saying, even granting his point in that quote and at that time, there might not be as much to worry about on that subject as he predicted there would be. There are just too many ways of proceeding that might very well bypass the entire aspect of what he was worrying about --so that the integrity of the core project is left perfectly intact for him. ...And yet he still retains the extended fanbase of those who want DF with pretty visuals. :)
Post by: Retro on April 13, 2010, 04:38:39 pm
I imagine that most people who are tied to any graphics system/visualizer enough to where they won't use DF without one are among the --I've found, rather large-- camp of people who wouldn't play DF without some kind of visualization above ASCII levels anyway, no matter how much they like the game's premise. So it's probably not a statistic that could relevantly be counted as 'worrisome' anyhow.
Personally I don't want a complete third-party interface by which I can play by proxy. When I use Stonesense I freeze DF and just look around. I use visualizers for the rendering, not for necessity. It's just near-impossible to see anything big and intricate across z-levels without a visualizer.
That being said, I'd still play and enjoy DF, I just wouldn't have the impetus to build anything fun and big or mess around with any of my pet project ideas because they all require a visualizer to look nice.
Post by: peterix on April 13, 2010, 04:47:07 pm
It would be also very hard to make an external interface. The problem there is that lots of the actual functionality of DF /is mixed/ with the interface code (by Toady or the compiler... hard to tell). You can't replace that without rewriting the functionality or interfacing with it in some really weird way. For example, when you give the miner labor to a woodcutter who is already trying to 'pickup equipment', the *menu* does some deep magic manipulating all kinds of vectors inside the creature and calls something using a function pointer. I wouldn't want to mess with corner cases like that.I imagine that most people who are tied to any graphics system/visualizer enough to where they won't use DF without one are among the --I've found, rather large-- camp of people who wouldn't play DF without some kind of visualization above ASCII levels anyway, no matter how much they like the game's premise. So it's probably not a statistic that could relevantly be counted as 'worrisome' anyhow.
Personally I don't want a complete third-party interface by which I can play by proxy. When I use Stonesense I freeze DF and just look around. I use visualizers for the rendering, not for necessity. It's just near-impossible to see anything big and intricate across z-levels without a visualizer.
That being said, I'd still play and enjoy DF, I just wouldn't have the impetus to build anything fun and big or mess around with any of my pet project ideas because they all require a visualizer to look nice.
So, not likely to happen anyway.
Post by: Jiri Petru on April 13, 2010, 06:46:56 pm
Post by: jseah on April 13, 2010, 09:41:14 pm
I like how the thing looks but is there a way to zoom out? (or will there be a way?)
I would dearly love to be able to zoom out and see the entire mountain at one go.
Would also make stitching screenshots for a large view not quite a pain as it is.
Post by: gilrad on April 13, 2010, 10:29:07 pm
Yeah this is really getting off topic, so I'll end it there.
Post by: teethering on April 13, 2010, 10:46:05 pm
The questions of effort, ownership etc etc are of course abound, but from a technical standpoint it can be done and is done on fairly regular basis in the industry.
Post by: Footkerchief on April 13, 2010, 11:04:15 pm
Post by: teethering on April 13, 2010, 11:29:00 pm
^^^ Also it would force Toady to keep his interfaces separate from his logic, which would probably save him work in the long run even if there was no public API.
Yep, decoupled interfaces between modules typically create a more streamlined design overall.
Post by: strich on April 14, 2010, 03:38:42 am
Post by: TheDancinZerg on April 14, 2010, 04:01:11 am
I'm just going to go out on a limb here and ask why the hell Stonesense, or any of its kind for that matter, have not yet included a "IF YOU LIKE THIS, PLEASE DONATE >HERE<" window on start up or shut down. Doesn't really mitigate any of the issues presented over the last few pages, but I really don't know why it hasn't been done. It takes 5 minutes to do.
Because, personally, I hate nag screens, and they don't work. People donate to toady, most definitely they do. There is no nag screen in dwarf fortress. Yet he still eats.
Nag screens in a community like this are a great way for people to not use your program.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 14, 2010, 04:54:28 am
it runs, but fails to connect to DF 31.02 or .03
what I am doing wrong?
Post by: jonask84 on April 14, 2010, 07:50:46 am
@gilrad: Yup, Dwarf Therapist is a great tool. And it's a good thing chmod is working so hard on it. I hope you're not insinuating that we're some how slacking off here at Stonesense though ;) You see, converting DT is simply just easier and less work, and hence faster. It only uses a small subset of the DF information, stuff that is work related. Stonesense uses all that, and twenty times more. So it takes way longer to find all the info back, but we'll get there :) btw, praise Petrix and Japa, they're doing all the heavy lifting these days.
@DJDD: The thought of adding a "Donate" screen to Stonesense has of course crossed my mind. But in the end two things made us decide against it: 1) It's supposed to be our gift to you, free and open, no strings attached. 2) What would we do with the money? Our 4 main devs live in India, Australia, Norway and the US so a pizza party would require some heavy air-fair donations ;D
@Petr Ga: I don't think the trunk is compatible with .02 and .03 yet, although I might be wrong (I've been out flat with a heavy cold the last week).
Post by: Solifuge on April 14, 2010, 09:46:39 am
@DJDD: The thought of adding a "Donate" screen to Stonesense has of course crossed my mind. But in the end two things made us decide against it: 1) It's supposed to be our gift to you, free and open, no strings attached. 2) What would we do with the money? Our 4 main devs live in India, Australia, Norway and the US so a pizza party would require some heavy air-fair donations ;D
...though we could fund a pizza party for Toady. I'd not be averse to plugging a Donate To Toady link somewhere in the thread, or an HTML link in the folder
Post by: Rose on April 14, 2010, 09:55:38 am
i tried to compile project from trunk in VS C++ 2010
it runs, but fails to connect to DF 31.02 or .03
what I am doing wrong?
try again. it should work now.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 14, 2010, 10:22:10 am
after (re)build, it tries to run it from /Release, but it is in root (trunk)
after I start it manually, it end on "Connecting to DF"
anyway, are you planning to upgrade to visual studio 2010? now out of beta, of course still free
Post by: Rose on April 14, 2010, 10:46:11 am
make sure you open the stonesensesolution.sln that's in the root directory, no NOT use the batch files for making a solution from cmake. that doesn't work yet.
Post by: gilrad on April 14, 2010, 06:01:49 pm
Alright, feedback time!
@gilrad: Yup, Dwarf Therapist is a great tool. And it's a good thing chmod is working so hard on it. I hope you're not insinuating that we're some how slacking off here at Stonesense though ;) You see, converting DT is simply just easier and less work, and hence faster. It only uses a small subset of the DF information, stuff that is work related. Stonesense uses all that, and twenty times more. So it takes way longer to find all the info back, but we'll get there :) btw, praise Petrix and Japa, they're doing all the heavy lifting these days.
Of course not :) I just thought that DT would be a better example of 3rd-party apps that push Toady's non-intervention stance, as there are many DT users who refuse to play the latest build in earnest without it.
Who knows, though. Maybe someday Stonesense will include mouse-based designations. Especially with the fact that you have to go down 100 z-levels to hit lava, I can see that as becoming just as necessary as DT currently is.
Post by: strich on April 14, 2010, 06:35:03 pm
Alright, feedback time!
@DJDD: The thought of adding a "Donate" screen to Stonesense has of course crossed my mind. But in the end two things made us decide against it: 1) It's supposed to be our gift to you, free and open, no strings attached. 2) What would we do with the money? Our 4 main devs live in India, Australia, Norway and the US so a pizza party would require some heavy air-fair donations ;D
Woah, back up there bud. I didn't mean donate to you - You're piggybacking off of Toady's work and as much as I respect and love the work you guys have done with Stonesense, you don't really deserve to make money off of it. No, I'm talking about a 'Donate to Toady' button. Somewhere. Anywhere. Don't like nag-screens? Fine, make it a 5 second long splash-screen with some text on it. Simple. Don't like that? Fine, chuck it in About. I don't care, I just think it should be somewhere in there.
Fact is, shitloads of people download DF and this and play with it without ever hitting the forums or the website a second time. I think a donate link on this app could do wonders. And the more money Toady gets the more it'll benefit the development of DF and thusly benefits us.
Hop to it!
Post by: Maxxeh on April 14, 2010, 07:15:27 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on April 14, 2010, 10:18:04 pm
lol if they dont visit a second time they wont find this piece of software.
Stonesense got a great deal of attention and direct links from various sources. It's definitely plausible that there are players who never opened bay12games.com in their browser.
Post by: jvempire on April 14, 2010, 10:35:55 pm
Just because someone knows who created a free game doesn't mean they will donate to them. Even more so if you keep telling a random person to give money to a guy he doesn't know it will make it worse.lol if they dont visit a second time they wont find this piece of software.
Stonesense got a great deal of attention and direct links from various sources. It's definitely plausible that there are players who never opened bay12games.com in their browser.
Post by: Footkerchief on April 14, 2010, 10:55:53 pm
Post by: Khalan on April 15, 2010, 12:09:14 am
Post by: Kittah_Khan on April 17, 2010, 06:14:55 pm
Alright, feedback time!
@DJDD: The thought of adding a "Donate" screen to Stonesense has of course crossed my mind. But in the end two things made us decide against it: 1) It's supposed to be our gift to you, free and open, no strings attached. 2) What would we do with the money? Our 4 main devs live in India, Australia, Norway and the US so a pizza party would require some heavy air-fair donations ;D
Woah, back up there bud. I didn't mean donate to you - You're piggybacking off of Toady's work and as much as I respect and love the work you guys have done with Stonesense, you don't really deserve to make money off of it. No, I'm talking about a 'Donate to Toady' button. Somewhere. Anywhere. Don't like nag-screens? Fine, make it a 5 second long splash-screen with some text on it. Simple. Don't like that? Fine, chuck it in About. I don't care, I just think it should be somewhere in there.
Fact is, shitloads of people download DF and this and play with it without ever hitting the forums or the website a second time. I think a donate link on this app could do wonders. And the more money Toady gets the more it'll benefit the development of DF and thusly benefits us.
Hop to it!
I hope you're joking with "you don't really deserve to make money off of it" ?
Toady's piggybacking on work from thousands of people who've put decades of work into computer hardware and software, he doesn't deserve to make money off of it.
Reductio ad absurdum.
All work is based on other things.
The Stonesense developers are very much in their rights to add a donate button for Stonesense, though at the very least a clear distinction should be made between Stonesense and Dwarf Fortress if such were done.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 17, 2010, 06:24:56 pm
And whats this about Toady or the Stone sense guys "not deserving" money....since when do one of us determine whether or not there work for our entertainment is worthy of people freely donating?
The idea that they are piggybacking off of other peoples work and stuff is BS....does anyone else have anything like dwarf fortress out there? you make it sound like he is stealing shit....if you wanna get technical the world piggy backs off everyone...that's life
Post by: Retro on April 17, 2010, 06:25:24 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 17, 2010, 06:44:00 pm
stonesense in the end is a community effort, it is fair to say that some people worked more on it than others, and if stonesense makes money, it is fair that the money is distributed to everyone that worked on it according to the work he put on it, but i don't think anybody has the authority to say who deserves what.
Post by: strich on April 17, 2010, 08:09:36 pm
I fully meant what I said, and while I won't completely disregard your opinion, I feel I should have you think of this:Alright, feedback time!
@DJDD: The thought of adding a "Donate" screen to Stonesense has of course crossed my mind. But in the end two things made us decide against it: 1) It's supposed to be our gift to you, free and open, no strings attached. 2) What would we do with the money? Our 4 main devs live in India, Australia, Norway and the US so a pizza party would require some heavy air-fair donations ;D
Woah, back up there bud. I didn't mean donate to you - You're piggybacking off of Toady's work and as much as I respect and love the work you guys have done with Stonesense, you don't really deserve to make money off of it. No, I'm talking about a 'Donate to Toady' button. Somewhere. Anywhere. Don't like nag-screens? Fine, make it a 5 second long splash-screen with some text on it. Simple. Don't like that? Fine, chuck it in About. I don't care, I just think it should be somewhere in there.
Fact is, shitloads of people download DF and this and play with it without ever hitting the forums or the website a second time. I think a donate link on this app could do wonders. And the more money Toady gets the more it'll benefit the development of DF and thusly benefits us.
Hop to it!
I hope you're joking with "you don't really deserve to make money off of it" ?
Toady's piggybacking on work from thousands of people who've put decades of work into computer hardware and software, he doesn't deserve to make money off of it.
Reductio ad absurdum.
All work is based on other things.
The Stonesense developers are very much in their rights to add a donate button for Stonesense, though at the very least a clear distinction should be made between Stonesense and Dwarf Fortress if such were done.
The simple fact is that the majority of the playerbase who try DF, and by extension Stonesense, could very easily view Stonesense as the offical front-end to DF and therefore donate with the idea that the money will go towards the betterment of DF. Thats whats wrong with Stonesense putting their own donation button up. It is, no matter what way you put it, misleading. And if you want things to go into this dark misleading territory and set the example for all the other DL tools then by all means, but in the end it'll hurt everyone when Toady gets less and less donations.
Also, shame on those who had a cry about havings a pop-up or splash screen on Stonesense start up for Toady. There are ways to fix that, such as having it only pop up every 10th load, etc.
I just thought it'd be a really nice thing to do for Toady since he really works hard on DF and applications like this actually hurt him emotionally (See the many posts he's had about it if you must). Its REALLY not a big thing to do to place a donate button somewhere...anywhere...
Post by: Kittah_Khan on April 18, 2010, 07:08:56 am
I fully meant what I said, and while I won't completely disregard your opinion, I feel I should have you think of this:
The simple fact is that the majority of the playerbase who try DF, and by extension Stonesense, could very easily view Stonesense as the offical front-end to DF and therefore donate with the idea that the money will go towards the betterment of DF. Thats whats wrong with Stonesense putting their own donation button up. It is, no matter what way you put it, misleading. And if you want things to go into this dark misleading territory and set the example for all the other DL tools then by all means, but in the end it'll hurt everyone when Toady gets less and less donations.
Also, shame on those who had a cry about havings a pop-up or splash screen on Stonesense start up for Toady. There are ways to fix that, such as having it only pop up every 10th load, etc.
I just thought it'd be a really nice thing to do for Toady since he really works hard on DF and applications like this actually hurt him emotionally (See the many posts he's had about it if you must). Its REALLY not a big thing to do to place a donate button somewhere...anywhere...
I understand your position, which is why I also said that if someone were to add a donate button, they should at the very least make clear the distinction between DF and Stonesense( and preferably encourage people to donate to Toady as well ), but as has been said several times, people are free to give money to whoever they want.
As it is, it's kind of hard to think that Stonesense is Dwarf Fortress, especially for the fairly smart crowd that DF attracts.
Post by: James.Denholm on April 18, 2010, 07:41:35 pm
As it is, it's kind of hard to think that Stonesense is Dwarf Fortress, especially for the fairly smart crowd that DF attracts.
Ah, but that's only the forum-knowing community. There are no doubt thousands of people who don't even know about the forums, or the wiki. To be honest, these are probably also the kind of people who can't tell the difference between Facebook and a blog talking about Facebook, and hence go spastic on said blog's comments screaming "Where's my login bits!?".
Not everyone who uses computers are computer-literate. Just remember that. Such knowledge is empowering, brother!
That said, I'm all for Stonesense being able to choose for themselves to ask for donations and what-not. I don't believe that we, the external end-users, have any right at all to be able to arbitrarily say "No! It's not ethical! GTFO Toady's werk kkthx!". That's up for the developers to decide.
Look at me, all pro-choicey. Go go gadget abortion debate.
Post by: Retro on April 18, 2010, 11:12:25 pm
Look at me, all pro-choicey. Go go gadget abortion debate.
Personally I think that pro-life is the best way to protect our military. The more armour, the better.
Post by: dennislp3 on April 18, 2010, 11:18:34 pm
Post by: Rose on April 19, 2010, 03:06:06 am
before you guys continue arguing, keep in mind that regardless of weather or not we have a right to, we are NOT asking any kinds of donations.
as for s splash-screen asking for people to donate to toady, one, that would be very annoying, and two, you notice toady doesn't even have that in DF.
@Retro:
a good chance, yes. right now it's mainly waiting for crashbugs to be fixed before release.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 19, 2010, 04:29:37 am
make sure you open the stonesensesolution.sln that's in the root directory, no NOT use the batch files for making a solution from cmake. that doesn't work yet.I did. There is also DwarfIso I can use but I dont pay attention to it. Just .sln
I compiled stonesense from svn, trunk, latest revision
I get it to "connecting to DF"
in log there is
Stonesense launched
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
Exeption:error 2: Failed to open file, at row 0 col 0
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
I have win7 64bit
trying to avoid modifications, i ran df 31.03 vanilla + quickgen + default embark, paused
any tip?
Post by: Rose on April 19, 2010, 04:42:56 am
odd, very odd.
wait, is stonesense running from the directory that has the file 'memory.xml'?
shortcuts can mess things like this up sometimes.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 19, 2010, 05:14:28 am
hmm....
odd, very odd.
wait, is stonesense running from the directory that has the file 'memory.xml'?
shortcuts can mess things like this up sometimes.
stonesense.exe is strangely enough compiled to trunk folder, not to Release.
vc++ 2010 fails to run it after compiling, because it calls it from Release folder
I ran it from trunk, so there is memory.xml
Post by: thvaz on April 20, 2010, 08:56:44 pm
I never played using Stonesense, because I was waiting for the new version to be released, but I really do want to use it now, and I can't go back to 40d now, so I'm really anxious :)
So, it's everything going alright? Do you have some idea for a release date?
Post by: Rose on April 20, 2010, 09:02:13 pm
pretty much 'when it's mostly done'
but it is getting close.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 21, 2010, 05:13:39 am
hmm....
odd, very odd.
wait, is stonesense running from the directory that has the file 'memory.xml'?
shortcuts can mess things like this up sometimes.
so, where is expected stonesense.exe to appear after build? project root or Release?
i would like to do futher testing what can be wrong... i may try to dl vs2005....
Post by: Rose on April 21, 2010, 05:33:21 am
Post by: mustyoshi on April 21, 2010, 08:18:23 am
Post by: Rose on April 21, 2010, 08:33:04 am
it already follows the cursor and everything, but there's nowhere near the required functionality to replace DF.
Post by: Bellerophon on April 21, 2010, 08:37:25 am
- A rescalable window
- No matter how large the window is, always render all tiles onscreen in stonesense on the current z-level (and what's above/below all those to the set limitations limitations) rather than just a preset square that cuts off. That'd give the impression of true infinite rendering.
- Having the auto-centre work... better. Create a virtual diamond with all visible tiles in the DF window NOT counting the ones covered by the menu, then centre that diamond in stonesense. The current one seems to just throw it off to wherever the hell, adn I'll not be able to see some tiles and be able to see a lot of extraneous ones
- maybe a cube showing the current cursor location in DF?
On and I'd like tiles for rocks or wood or items on the ground too, but I think that's a pretty well known request.
Post by: Rose on April 21, 2010, 09:01:38 am
Things I'd really likeWill be in slate.
- A rescalable window
you just have to change some things in the config file to make the rendered cube bigger, and pull it up, so it covers the screen
- No matter how large the window is, always render all tiles onscreen in stonesense on the current z-level (and what's above/below all those to the set limitations limitations) rather than just a preset square that cuts off. That'd give the impression of true infinite rendering.
This is a little more tricky, since stonesense currently doesn't know weather the menus are open in DF. however, you can use CTRL+ arrows to compensate, and give a permanent offset.
- Having the auto-centre work... better. Create a virtual diamond with all visible tiles in the DF window NOT counting the ones covered by the menu, then centre that diamond in stonesense. The current one seems to just throw it off to wherever the hell, adn I'll not be able to see some tiles and be able to see a lot of extraneous ones
Will be in slate
- maybe a cube showing the current cursor location in DF?
On and I'd like tiles for rocks or wood or items on the ground too, but I think that's a pretty well known request.don't we all... this will come later, but it's doable.
Post by: Bellerophon on April 21, 2010, 12:16:44 pm
you just have to change some things in the config file to make the rendered cube bigger, and pull it up, so it covers the screen
Yeah, but I just set it to 900 and it still doesn't have the top left/right corners. It'd be nice if it just automagically figured out roughly what it needed to show everything.
EDIT: oh and wait. I just figured out. LIFTSEGMENT. Oh well. Still, automagic would be nice.
Oh and thanks for the ctrl+ trick, that's really handy.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2010, 12:20:09 pm
Post by: Bellerophon on April 21, 2010, 12:33:32 pm
Japa, all of that is great but... will stonesense dispense cookies on command? This is a vital feature for me.
But it it essential, essential, that they are double chocolate chip.
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 21, 2010, 12:34:08 pm
YesJapa, all of that is great but... will stonesense dispense cookies on command? This is a vital feature for me.
But it it essential, essential, that they are double chocolate chip.
Post by: soul4hdwn on April 21, 2010, 12:53:21 pm
here you go:YesJapa, all of that is great but... will stonesense dispense cookies on command? This is a vital feature for me.
But it it essential, essential, that they are double chocolate chip.
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/6602/doublechocolatechip.jpg) (http://img130.imageshack.us/i/doublechocolatechip.jpg/)
Post by: Peteģ on April 21, 2010, 03:21:21 pm
Post by: Ratbert_CP on April 21, 2010, 03:25:26 pm
Wow, huge tileset, and such awesome detail. Wait, isn't transparent represented by pink?
I thought that butterscotch chips were transparent...
Post by: LucasUP on April 22, 2010, 03:38:31 am
I think this topic is getting offtrack....?
Post by: buckets on April 22, 2010, 05:25:42 am
*runs away*
Post by: soul4hdwn on April 22, 2010, 05:39:54 am
Quick, someone make a tileset that has cookies with colourable "chips" for everything. Mmm bauxite cookie doors....it was already off-track except for the direct questions.
I think this topic is getting offtrack....?
It needs to be to able to dispence biscuits aswell.and there's my point ;D
*runs away*
mostly just waiting on the real/full update for this utility is all, randomness in the mean time or save breaths...
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 22, 2010, 07:19:11 am
If not currently, can the functionality be added?
Something like this for example?(I can do the walls, but not the floors on top.)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I tried to ask this earlier, but I don't think I was at all clear as I didn't get an answer.
Post by: Rose on April 22, 2010, 08:06:21 am
Post by: Petr Ga on April 22, 2010, 10:59:00 am
Post by: Maxxeh on April 22, 2010, 12:16:38 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on April 22, 2010, 12:24:18 pm
Post by: Maxxeh on April 22, 2010, 01:48:15 pm
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 22, 2010, 08:47:51 pm
Say I wanted for floortiles on top of walls to have different appearances instead of the current floor pattern, could this be done?
If not currently, can the functionality be added?
Something like this for example?(I can do the walls, but not the floors on top.)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I tried to ask this earlier, but I don't think I was at all clear as I didn't get an answer.
Yes, it is currently possible, and has been for a whileCould someone please explain how?
Post by: jonask84 on April 23, 2010, 08:17:02 am
Spoiler alert: check Japa's new avatar image
Post by: Spong on April 23, 2010, 09:40:41 am
Post by: Retro on April 23, 2010, 09:43:15 am
ETA: Real soon :)
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
Post by: Rose on April 23, 2010, 09:44:21 am
ETA: Real soon :)
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
*head a splodes*
Post by: Petr Ga on April 23, 2010, 10:10:48 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that characters are strange.
I tried 31.01 and also 31.03. I have 64 bit win7 CZ.
and bult from latest svn head trunk
Post by: Rose on April 23, 2010, 10:12:39 am
are there any odd characters in the path?
Post by: peterix on April 23, 2010, 11:56:22 am
as for my trouble connecting to DF, i got this Exception:The application can't locate the Memory.xml file. Strange characters should be fixed in dfhack master (it was doing some nasty things).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
that characters are strange.
I tried 31.01 and also 31.03. I have 64 bit win7 CZ.
and bult from latest svn head trunk
Post by: Footkerchief on April 23, 2010, 12:36:01 pm
Post by: Spong on April 23, 2010, 12:44:55 pm
Oh my god, the snow piles are waist-high? You guys have outdone yourselves.
Unless that is milk... :o
Post by: Rafal99 on April 23, 2010, 12:53:41 pm
Oh my god, the snow piles are waist-high? You guys have outdone yourselves.
Unless that is milk... :o
Or unknown substance... ;P
Post by: Moontayle on April 23, 2010, 01:17:03 pm
Oh my god, the snow piles are waist-high? You guys have outdone yourselves.I'll not ashamed to admit that turned me on just a little bit once I figured out what it was.
Post by: rdwulfe on April 23, 2010, 02:32:49 pm
Post by: Retro on April 23, 2010, 02:42:55 pm
So.. is this still being worked on, I hope? I very dearly want to use stonesense with my current fortresses, I love this utility, and have missed it dearly.
As has been mentioned several times (including the last few posts), yes. Jonas has just mentioned that a new 0.31-prepped version will be out fairly soon as well.
Post by: Andir on April 23, 2010, 03:05:51 pm
Post by: HoKa on April 23, 2010, 04:56:11 pm
The immersion is gone. A change in the art to a more serious direction would impact this mod tremendously.
Post by: Andir on April 23, 2010, 05:03:53 pm
Is it me or is this mod too bright? There's something mysterious and absorbing about DF's black background, a kind of reminder you're in the darkest depths of the earth, that is completely lost in Stonesense. What's worse is that dwarves themselves are chibi when they're a rather Nordic concept to begin with. Seeing the little guys drawn like that doesn't remind me of stygian underworlds, nor of Boatmurdered's tragedy, but of Harvest Moon and jRPG infantilism.I would be interested in another art style, but right now we have to take what we get. I haven't dug deep, but are the tiles in this customizable?
The immersion is gone. A change in the art to a more serious direction would impact this mod tremendously.
Post by: Footkerchief on April 23, 2010, 05:07:01 pm
Is it me or is this mod too bright? There's something mysterious and absorbing about DF's black background, a kind of reminder you're in the darkest depths of the earth, that is completely lost in Stonesense. What's worse is that dwarves themselves are chibi when they're a rather Nordic concept to begin with. Seeing the little guys drawn like that doesn't remind me of stygian underworlds, nor of Boatmurdered's tragedy, but of Harvest Moon and jRPG infantilism.
The immersion is gone. A change in the art to a more serious direction would impact this mod tremendously.
Stonesense allows you to swap out tilesets. Also, we've had this discussion about grimdark vs. cheerful several times in this thread already.
Post by: Alu on April 24, 2010, 04:58:46 am
Is it me or is this mod too bright? There's something mysterious and absorbing about DF's black background, a kind of reminder you're in the darkest depths of the earth, that is completely lost in Stonesense. What's worse is that dwarves themselves are chibi when they're a rather Nordic concept to begin with. Seeing the little guys drawn like that doesn't remind me of stygian underworlds, nor of Boatmurdered's tragedy, but of Harvest Moon and jRPG infantilism.I would be interested in another art style, but right now we have to take what we get. I haven't dug deep, but are the tiles in this customizable?
The immersion is gone. A change in the art to a more serious direction would impact this mod tremendously.
Maybe a brightness/Gamma-correction option would be a temporary solution
but if you have sunshine-desert overground, it would look stupid again xD
Post by: elthar on April 24, 2010, 05:34:05 am
Is it me or is this mod too bright? There's something mysterious and absorbing about DF's black background, a kind of reminder you're in the darkest depths of the earth, that is completely lost in Stonesense. What's worse is that dwarves themselves are chibi when they're a rather Nordic concept to begin with. Seeing the little guys drawn like that doesn't remind me of stygian underworlds, nor of Boatmurdered's tragedy, but of Harvest Moon and jRPG infantilism.
The immersion is gone. A change in the art to a more serious direction would impact this mod tremendously.
Stonesense allows you to swap out tilesets. Also, we've had this discussion about grimdark vs. cheerful several times in this thread already.
i bet when 0.31 version is already out and all the tiles and details needed in the current tileset are drawn there's not much os an obstacle for someone to start drawing another tileset in any style they prefer.
p.s. i'm not switching to 0.31 'til the new stonesence is out, having all the current bugs and mysteryes and NO bright warm stonesence images at the same time is too much. keep up the great work, guys!
Post by: Retro on April 24, 2010, 09:43:55 am
i bet when 0.31 version is already out and all the tiles and details needed in the current tileset are drawn there's not much os an obstacle for someone to start drawing another tileset in any style they prefer.
Everything about the game is available for you to edit whenever you like :P Just pop open the Stonesense folder and MS Paint or somesuch and mess around. You can add stuff as well as edit, too.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 24, 2010, 04:30:44 pm
One get it running under 2008/2010 but it doesnt find/handle incorrectly memory.xml
picture from underground
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on April 24, 2010, 04:38:50 pm
it works, finally. with help of peterix. problem was in VC2008/2010. At this point, it compiles correctly only under VC2005.
One get it running under 2008/2010 but it doesnt find/handle incorrectly memory.xml
picture from undergroundSpoiler (click to show/hide)
!
...wow, it's pretty cold down there, apparently.
Post by: Andir on April 24, 2010, 06:07:27 pm
Post by: Greiger on April 24, 2010, 06:21:07 pm
After poking around I discovered that the anything underground, even 2 tiles from the surface is 10015 urists unless modified by a heat source (like magma or a SoF.) And then that change in temperature wouldn't bleed out very far from the source, and doesn't warm it much.
Post by: Caldfir on April 24, 2010, 08:26:41 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 24, 2010, 08:47:17 pm
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/diosilva16/dwarves2.png?t=1272159960)
Post by: James.Denholm on April 24, 2010, 09:33:33 pm
i'd also like to show this, a possible alternative to the main tileset that i will be working on if i get enough love
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/diosilva16/dwarves2.png?t=1272159960)
Hum... Offence not meant, but what's with the tall dwarf?
Also, the women are beardless! This is clearly an error!
On a more serious note, nice. I like it a lot.
Post by: YojimboUsaka on April 24, 2010, 09:51:22 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 24, 2010, 10:53:48 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on April 25, 2010, 02:18:15 am
Just a small, anatomy-nitpick note: Looking at the heads more closely, the women have a heck load more upper skull than the male dwarves. Now, I can see why it's been done so - To emphasise the baldness of the male dwarves, and to play into the stereotypes. But think about what you're suggesting - That male dwarves have less brain matter than female dwarves.
Now, I'm not suggesting that such a suggestion is incorrect, but still. Something to consider.
I can't wait to use 'em!
Post by: Spong on April 25, 2010, 05:10:33 am
i'd also like to show this, a possible alternative to the main tileset that i will be working on if i get enough love
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v739/diosilva16/dwarves2.png?t=1272159960)
I really like them. I can has?
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 06:48:41 am
This will mean that I will have to draw tiles a huge amount of tiles for my Genesis races, but I can't wait to see my current fort in its glory :).
it works, finally. with help of peterix. problem was in VC2008/2010. At this point, it compiles correctly only under VC2005.Wait, is it avaliable on SVN? Does it mean I can make it to work with 0.31.31 already? o_O
One get it running under 2008/2010 but it doesnt find/handle incorrectly memory.xml
picture from undergroundSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Petr Ga on April 25, 2010, 07:11:38 am
I can't wait when Stonesense comes out!
This will mean that I will have to draw tiles a huge amount of tiles for my Genesis races, but I can't wait to see my current fort in its glory :).it works, finally. with help of peterix. problem was in VC2008/2010. At this point, it compiles correctly only under VC2005.Wait, is it avaliable on SVN? Does it mean I can make it to work with 0.31.31 already? o_O
One get it running under 2008/2010 but it doesnt find/handle incorrectly memory.xml
picture from undergroundSpoiler (click to show/hide)
yes
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 07:40:11 am
Post by: Spong on April 25, 2010, 08:05:58 am
Can you upload the compiled version somewhere please? I do not want to reinstall TSVN and get some compiler just for this :).
Seconded.
Post by: Thorik on April 25, 2010, 09:30:59 am
Post by: Firgof Umbra on April 25, 2010, 10:44:18 am
Quote
yesI just compiled it off the latest version on the SVN and it cannot find 0.31.03.
Post by: buckets on April 25, 2010, 11:43:19 am
Can you upload the compiled version somewhere please? I do not want to reinstall TSVN and get some compiler just for this :).
Seconded.
Do it!
Post by: Petr Ga on April 25, 2010, 02:15:27 pm
you didnt it in vc2005, did you?QuoteyesI just compiled it off the latest version on the SVN and it cannot find 0.31.03.
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 02:19:09 pm
Post by: Petr Ga on April 25, 2010, 02:33:08 pm
Petr, could you answer our prayers plox? :)
For Armok (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229). lemme know if there are some issues with running it
Post by: Firgof Umbra on April 25, 2010, 02:57:59 pm
Quote
you didnt it in vc2005, did you?I did.
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 03:03:21 pm
Thank you very much! I will try it shortly!Petr, could you answer our prayers plox? :)
For Armok (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229). lemme know if there are some issues with running it
Post by: Petr Ga on April 25, 2010, 03:03:56 pm
ok, sorry. I said that because I tried vc2010 then vc2008 and THEN vc2005. only vc2005 works. only configuration was to set 3 paths to MS SDK (http://www.codeproject.com/KB/applications/FreeVS2005Win32.aspx)Quoteyou didnt it in vc2005, did you?I did.
Post by: LegitMacgyver on April 25, 2010, 03:38:10 pm
Petr, could you answer our prayers plox? :)
For Armok (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229). lemme know if there are some issues with running it
Runs like a champ, thanks this will do just fine until the official release.
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 03:50:14 pm
Post by: jarganaut on April 25, 2010, 04:23:53 pm
Post by: Mike Mayday on April 25, 2010, 04:27:44 pm
YESSSSSSSSSSSSS
Post by: Petr Ga on April 25, 2010, 04:31:34 pm
Working great for me! Thanks for the great work.
Thanks to Japa.
I am just "the one with VC2005 and Build button"
Post by: Moontayle on April 25, 2010, 04:54:30 pm
Post by: jonask84 on April 25, 2010, 05:21:17 pm
But let me stress, what Petr Ga put up is not Stonesense Slate. Slate is not done yet.
Please don't spread this too much, as we feel it's advantageous that most people are on the same (and so compatible) releases. Also, I feel the credits screen should be on by default, there are a lot of people who put a lot of hard work in this, they deserve that :)
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 25, 2010, 05:23:55 pm
Post by: jonask84 on April 25, 2010, 05:27:09 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on April 25, 2010, 05:30:49 pm
But its your decision, obviously. If you want to annoy the people who use your program, go ahead.
Post by: Andir on April 25, 2010, 06:01:08 pm
Just an FYI... That compile seems to throw an error and lock up Dwarf Fortress after about 5 minutes (all three times I've had it open), so I don't recommend using it for long periods of time.Petr, could you answer our prayers plox? :)
For Armok (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229). lemme know if there are some issues with running it
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 07:27:01 pm
Post by: Suriko on April 25, 2010, 07:59:32 pm
Petr, could you answer our prayers plox? :)
For Armok (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229). lemme know if there are some issues with running it
First things first, Stonesense is a brilliant addition to Dwarf Fortress, so thanks to you guys for making this. I'm a total whore for isometric art, and Stonesense scratches that itch very well.
Tried running this just now, only to find it crashes as soon as it loads. Checked Stonesense.log, but it only shows "Stonesense launched". I'm running Windows 7 64 bit, which I assume probably has something to do with it.
Post by: Spong on April 25, 2010, 09:13:45 pm
Post by: buckets on April 25, 2010, 10:41:43 pm
Post by: LegitMacgyver on April 25, 2010, 10:43:38 pm
Post by: Deon on April 25, 2010, 11:22:04 pm
Here're wesmans:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Star Guarded on April 25, 2010, 11:58:55 pm
Post by: Lap on April 26, 2010, 12:54:18 am
Post by: Deon on April 26, 2010, 01:09:09 am
Has anyone created an ogre sprite? I need one for a project I'm doing involving Stonesense.I've just made it by your request:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2434ttv.png)
Is it good enough?
Post by: Star Guarded on April 26, 2010, 01:12:48 am
haha, I love you! thank you so much. sending you a PM.Has anyone created an ogre sprite? I need one for a project I'm doing involving Stonesense.I've just made it by your request:
(http://i40.tinypic.com/2434ttv.png)
Is it good enough?
Post by: Deon on April 26, 2010, 01:14:20 am
Meanwhile, I've finished nords' sprites:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Petr Ga on April 26, 2010, 01:57:58 am
jonask84 is right and I hope it is stated clearly that it is not release (or Slate)
on the other side, more testers = stabile future releases
I add "no warrany, as it is " to dfft
Post by: jonask84 on April 26, 2010, 02:35:47 am
Hi,
jonask84 is right and I hope it is stated clearly that it is not release (or Slate)
on the other side, more testers = stabile future releases
I add "no warrany, as it is " to dfft
Absolutely :) And the "crash then lock DF"-bug has been known for a few days, and we're scratching our little noggins trying to solve it. That is the last main issue before we go to Slate RC1.
@Deon: Awesome man :) Mind if we use the ogre for the vanilla Stonesense?
Post by: Deon on April 26, 2010, 02:37:51 am
Post by: Spiral42 on April 26, 2010, 03:41:41 am
/snipI'm also having this problem, running Win 7 64 bit. If you need any other specs, like settings I'm running DF under, let me know.
And the "crash then lock DF"-bug has been known for a few days, and we're scratching our little noggins trying to solve it. That is the last main issue before we go to Slate RC1.
Post by: Rose on April 26, 2010, 03:52:34 am
if something goes wrong during the memory reading, and Stonesense crashes, DF is left paused.
you can either start Stonesense again, to unpause it, or use a utility that will be packaged with slate.
Post by: James.Denholm on April 26, 2010, 04:59:11 am
or use a utility that will be packaged with slate.
I think that's the developer's equivalent of "Zing!" That, or it's the equivalent of "Keep your damned pants on." Or, "And that's why we don't compile and release after every code change." Or something completley else.
It could be nothing, of course, but I like to think that people insert subtle snarky comments all the time into everything. Makes the world a more interesting place.
Post by: peterix on April 26, 2010, 05:03:33 am
You can use the 'unstuck' utility from DFHack. The thread is linked from my sig :)or use a utility that will be packaged with slate.
I think that's the developer's equivalent of "Zing!" That, or it's the equivalent of "Keep your damned pants on." Or, "And that's why we don't compile and release after every code change." Or something completley else.
It could be nothing, of course, but I like to think that people insert subtle snarky comments all the time into everything. Makes the world a more interesting place.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 26, 2010, 05:14:39 am
i dont know if it will be updated every now and then, but at time of this post, it is current.
Post by: Jiri Petru on April 26, 2010, 05:35:25 am
Keep up the good job, guys. I can't wait for the official release.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 26, 2010, 05:42:04 am
Japa seems referring to same tool - stonesense build 762 "added the Unstuck tool, and made the F10 sprite viewing screen noo lock things up."You can use the 'unstuck' utility from DFHack. The thread is linked from my sig :)or use a utility that will be packaged with slate.
I think that's the developer's equivalent of "Zing!" That, or it's the equivalent of "Keep your damned pants on." Or, "And that's why we don't compile and release after every code change." Or something completley else.
It could be nothing, of course, but I like to think that people insert subtle snarky comments all the time into everything. Makes the world a more interesting place.
plus, it seems that release is really close. this is last comment from build 764 (15 min old): "got adamantine working."
Post by: Deon on April 26, 2010, 06:34:14 am
Conger eel:
(http://j.imagehost.org/0771/conger_eel.png)
Also I am not happy with my old "troll", so here's a more classic and grim sprite for a troll:
(http://j.imagehost.org/0471/cavetroll.png)
P.S. Yeah , they have horns.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 26, 2010, 06:44:34 am
I found a minor bug in colours, using Peter's "release" (thanks): rock salt is brownish instead of white.
Keep up the good job, guys. I can't wait for the official release.
FYI: i've updated dffd zip (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229) to latest revision 764
Post by: jonask84 on April 26, 2010, 04:07:01 pm
I found a minor bug in colours, using Peter's "release" (thanks): rock salt is brownish instead of white.
Keep up the good job, guys. I can't wait for the official release.
FYI: i've updated dffd zip (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229) to latest revision 764
Yup, well, now I know how Apple feels (http://gizmodo.com/5520164/this-is-apples-next-iphone) ;)
Slate is just about done, we're putting the final touches on it and it will be out soon.
There are a ton of cool new features, which were gonna be a fun surprise.. So yeah.. "Surprise!" I guess ;)
Anyway, please don't spread this unofficial release. We want to be able to guarantee the quality of Stonesense, and We can't guarantee nightly builds :)
Post by: Andir on April 26, 2010, 04:56:15 pm
There are a ton of cool new features, which were gonna be a fun surprise.. So yeah.. "Surprise!" I guess ;)I never ran Stonesense until this latest DF build (because I mainly used Visualizer as it could see "more" map at once... ie: grand scale imagery of entire fort) but I haven't seen anything that hasn't been in screen shots... besides the Reveal like ability and Petr or someone had a picture of snow... was there anything else of major importance added?
Maybe I should just wait for the changelog. :-\
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 27, 2010, 02:10:17 am
what do you guys think of this?
Post by: jonask84 on April 27, 2010, 03:14:32 am
@Andir: Hehe thanks yeah, there are some major additions, so stay tuned :)
Post by: Rose on April 27, 2010, 03:17:51 am
I found a minor bug in colours, using Peter's "release" (thanks): rock salt is brownish instead of white.
Keep up the good job, guys. I can't wait for the official release.
rock salt isn't white, it's pink.
but your right, it's a little dark. I fixed that now.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on April 27, 2010, 04:33:01 am
any info i can provide that could he helpful for development here?
Post by: Rose on April 27, 2010, 04:41:22 am
the new not official release simply crashes outright when i run it on my older windows xp computer. which makes me sad, ive been building away busily and i really want a visualizer compatible with the current version to get a look at what my structures look like.
any info i can provide that could he helpful for development here?
post the log, and try turning off opengl in the init.
what videocard do you have?
Post by: Dante on April 27, 2010, 05:03:47 am
what do you guys think of this?Awesome. Especially the soldiers! I'll be using these if you make a complete set.
Just a couple of minor beefs - the female miner's candle needs shifting to the left, and the outlines of the goblins look washed out.
Post by: Greiger on April 27, 2010, 09:51:34 am
Hell I didn't even start using the 40d# versions regularly til d11. All I did with it before then was test it to see if it works with my system.
Anyway is that new info part with the temperature information part of the regular version or something just there for testing? I always liked poking around and seeing what temperature things were, but it was always a hassle before. If stonesense does it I would find it significantly easier.
Post by: Rose on April 27, 2010, 10:04:52 am
Post by: Greiger on April 27, 2010, 10:12:39 am
And since I have you here *handcuffs to railing* If I have a fortress race with 10 different castes (5 different main castes with a male and female version of each) can I have the spritesheets for each caste as a separate image file or do I have to stick them all into a single file? And would I have to make multiple xmls to point to the separate files if I do?
Oh and if I have to stick them all in one file, is there a maximum number of sprites that can be in one file?
(This is of course assuming stonesense can identify different castes at this point as anything other than [MALE] and [FEMALE])
Post by: Andir on April 27, 2010, 10:15:24 am
yeah, the temperature info will most likely be there, but some of that info will need to go, since it's getting a bit cluttered.... maybe a nice mouseover feature that gives detail on tiles under the cursor if the engine you are using makes it easy... toggled of course. That would be annoying all the time.
Post by: Rose on April 27, 2010, 10:26:25 am
Yay!
And since I have you here *handcuffs to railing* If I have a fortress race with 10 different castes (5 different main castes with a male and female version of each) can I have the spritesheets for each caste as a separate image file or do I have to stick them all into a single file? And would I have to make multiple xmls to point to the separate files if I do?
Oh and if I have to stick them all in one file, is there a maximum number of sprites that can be in one file?
(This is of course assuming stonesense can identify different castes at this point as anything other than [MALE] and [FEMALE])
you can have as many spritesheets as you want, with as many XML files as you want, but stonesense cannot currently identify castes. I'll try to get that working ASAP
Post by: Greiger on April 27, 2010, 10:36:29 am
Well I can't expect you to support every crazy thing a modder has ever done. :D
But caste support would be pretty much at the top of my wishlist. I already have blue green black and white scaled versions of my Dracon, and it would be spiffy to eventually be able to see them wandering around the fortress instead of having to go all the way into a personality screen just to see "Her scales are green".
Don't go out of your way just for me though, There probably aren't alot of folks that are doing something weird like that with castes.
Post by: ChokingVictim on April 27, 2010, 01:13:45 pm
@Askot Bokbondeler: Oh and for the record, I personally don't think the female dwarfs need beards.
What blasphemy!
Post by: therahedwig on April 27, 2010, 01:17:58 pm
@Askot Bokbondeler: Oh and for the record, I personally don't think the female dwarfs need beards.
What blasphemy!
But... DF girl-dwarfs don't have beards... Toady mentioned this a couple of times, and IIRC, they don't have them in the descriptions either...
Post by: Mephansteras on April 27, 2010, 01:19:15 pm
@Askot Bokbondeler: Oh and for the record, I personally don't think the female dwarfs need beards.
What blasphemy!
therahedwig is correct. Female dwarves do *not* have beards in Vanilla DF. Therefore it is not blasphemy.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on April 27, 2010, 01:58:06 pm
Post by: Dante on April 27, 2010, 08:24:30 pm
Post by: BigD145 on April 27, 2010, 09:43:48 pm
Yeah, interbreeding with elves will do funny things like that. In the old days, dwarves were real dwarves. Now it's all beardless this and can't-eat-rock-that.
And can't bathe in booze while teetering near magma without your face melting off.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on April 28, 2010, 06:06:10 am
the new not official release simply crashes outright when i run it on my older windows xp computer. which makes me sad, ive been building away busily and i really want a visualizer compatible with the current version to get a look at what my structures look like.
any info i can provide that could he helpful for development here?
post the log, and try turning off opengl in the init.
what videocard do you have?
graphics card is some strange thing integrated on the motherboard. dxdiag lists it as "intel(R) 82865G graphics controller" which i have currently set to use 96mb in the bios. its an older agp motherboard that wont run the few old agp cards i have lying around.
im in the middle of an action packed fortress moment right now, but ill try disabling opengl later on tonight. i assume its in the init.txt? it also occurs to me that ive probably got partial print on, as it goes very slow on this pc without, so i can try getting rid of that too.
what error log do you want me to post? is it the one windows wants to send to microsoft, or is there a file that the visualizer dumps into? the microsoft one is big.
Post by: Rose on April 28, 2010, 07:58:55 am
the log that I would need would be stonesense.log, in the stonesense directory.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 28, 2010, 08:20:56 am
(Looking forward to the official release of Slate)
Post by: Andir on April 28, 2010, 08:53:03 am
FYI, the unofficial stonesense release doesn't seem to show up adamantine. Instead it shows the stone it would have been had adamantine not overridden.(veins and clusters continue)It also shows molten rock as granite in the description.
(Looking forward to the official release of Slate)
Post by: Xzalander on April 28, 2010, 11:36:02 am
I've tried having it run on its own directory, sharing a directory with DF and it refuses. Any help available?
Post by: Khalan on April 28, 2010, 12:27:52 pm
Otherwise, try running both programs as admin, especially if you have one or both installed in the Program Files directory. If it's not Windows folder protection, UAC, or DEP, it may be your anti-virus preventing dfhack from accessing dwarf fortress. You could try adding the folders as exceptions to any real-time protection you have. Hope that helps.
Post by: Xzalander on April 28, 2010, 12:45:49 pm
Post by: Andir on April 28, 2010, 01:24:30 pm
Ok whats the latest version that is compatible with Stonesense? I'd rather work with Stonesense than force it to work with possible errors.Official or unofficial?
Officially, 40d.
Unofficially, there is a post a page or so back with a link to download a version of Stonsense that works with the latest build but it has quirks of it's own.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 28, 2010, 02:58:34 pm
Officially, 40d.
Unofficially, there is a post a page or so back with a link to download a version of Stonsense that works with the latest build but it has quirks of it's own.
some quirks like support for adamantine and colors of somke stones were corrected in last builds.
...dffd was updated.
Post by: Andir on April 28, 2010, 03:30:30 pm
Do you know if the "lockup" bug is still there? (The one that crashes SS, causes DF to lock up until you relaunch SS then close it.)Officially, 40d.
Unofficially, there is a post a page or so back with a link to download a version of Stonsense that works with the latest build but it has quirks of it's own.
some quirks like support for adamantine and colors of somke stones were corrected in last builds.
...dffd was updated.
I'm not at home... :-X
Post by: FelixtheCats on April 28, 2010, 10:01:02 pm
edit; turned off open gl in the init file, works now.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on April 29, 2010, 01:53:50 am
Stonesense launched
in the log file.
disabling opengl got it running without a crash, with the following
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
so it ran with opengl disabled. but trying it when df was active cased a crash, with the following text
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
anyhow, hope that is somewhat helpful. desperately looking forwards to a stable release, i want to check out my buildings.
EDIT: using mike mayday's df30 release on windows xp sp3 with an onboard graphics card, listed as "intel(R) 82865G graphics controller" in dxdiag.
Post by: Xzalander on April 29, 2010, 05:00:47 am
I've had the Unofficial Release run with:
MikeMayday2010
Phoebus2010
Post by: Footkerchief on April 29, 2010, 01:35:00 pm
Post by: Cheshire Cat on April 29, 2010, 03:40:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
this is with opengl turned off, it will not even load if its on even without DF, and image cacheing is off by default. after stonesense runs a few seconds and flashes some text about loading images, i get a windows box saying the process has frozen and would i like to file a report with microsoft. i can post that info as well, but its long. also, i am using what is probably an odd graphics card, so i may experiment with another more modern pc.
and thankyou footkerchief, but i dont think toady needs bug reports on stonesense. ;D
Post by: Footkerchief on April 29, 2010, 04:09:13 pm
Post by: Andir on April 29, 2010, 04:13:14 pm
Oops. I think I meant to post that in a different thread.Using <<previous next>> at the bottom of the page? (I hate those btw... :P)
Post by: Footkerchief on April 29, 2010, 04:18:59 pm
Post by: Rose on April 30, 2010, 12:13:52 am
verbose logging on gives me the following -Spoiler (click to show/hide)
this is with opengl turned off, it will not even load if its on even without DF, and image cacheing is off by default. after stonesense runs a few seconds and flashes some text about loading images, i get a windows box saying the process has frozen and would i like to file a report with microsoft. i can post that info as well, but its long. also, i am using what is probably an odd graphics card, so i may experiment with another more modern pc.
and thankyou footkerchief, but i dont think toady needs bug reports on stonesense. ;D
[CACHE_IMAGES:YES] is on by default, change it to [CACHE_IMAGES:NO]
if that doesn't work, then I'm afraid you don't have the required video memory to run stonesense with all of the images loaded.
there's a number of files called 'index.txt' that list what content files should be loaded. try editing them so that fewer sprites are used. you won't have as nice a look, but you should be able to get it to run.
I would start with terrain/index.txt, and removing the materialwalls.xml and materialfloors.xml lines.
Post by: Petr Ga on April 30, 2010, 03:41:41 am
Oops. I think I meant to post that in a different thread.
i thought that :) 'coz I was blamed for suggesting bugtracker for df utils
Post by: x2yzh9 on April 30, 2010, 06:30:24 pm
Post by: Andir on April 30, 2010, 06:33:30 pm
I'm getting a repetitive 'Cannot find DF Process' from Stonesense. 2010 DF, newest ver. of Stonesense.
The latest official Stonesense doesn't work with the latest official Dwarf Fortress, however, the latest unofficial does. In other words, wait for the next Stonesense, compile Stonesense yourself, or go back a few pages and get the unofficial build link.
Maybe if Stonesense is still days/weeks from release, the first page should be updated to state that that only works up to a specific version of DF?
Post by: jarganaut on May 01, 2010, 02:01:39 pm
Post by: LegitMacgyver on May 01, 2010, 02:30:43 pm
Is there a way to increase the amount of z-levels that are shown in stonesense, or are we stuck at 4?
Read the included readme.
Post by: jarganaut on May 01, 2010, 03:53:43 pm
Post by: jonask84 on May 02, 2010, 08:24:48 am
Ladies and Gentlemen! Dwarfs and Dwarfetts!
(http://i.imgur.com/RYnLi.png)
Out right now! (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_RC1.rar)
(http://i.imgur.com/RYnLi.png)
Out right now! (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_RC1.rar)
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2010, 08:26:12 am
Re-edit: Oh I see the changlog now. Very nice! I like the snow handling.
Post by: Khalan on May 02, 2010, 08:57:46 am
Post by: Greiger on May 02, 2010, 09:01:29 am
Post by: wolflance on May 02, 2010, 09:03:25 am
This is so awesome!
Post by: James.Denholm on May 02, 2010, 09:07:32 am
Dwarfetts?
On a more serious note: Awesome! Definitley going to give this a try at the first available opportunity.
Post by: Greiger on May 02, 2010, 09:19:33 am
Spoiler: Castes work (click to show/hide)
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2010, 09:21:58 am
Post by: Greiger on May 02, 2010, 09:26:45 am
As can be seen from the screenshot they work nicely, and stonesense can identify them. thanks to Japa.
I suppose I should update the repository with the new version once I get the doc working.
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2010, 09:31:05 am
somebody needs to make animalmen sprites now, with all the antman castes.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2010, 09:36:16 am
Post by: Rose on May 02, 2010, 09:38:02 am
Does anyone have a tileset which has all of the materials matching their Dwarf Fortress colors? I design my structures to look good in DF and it irks me when they come out differently in stonesense.
there's a colors/ folder with XML files describing all the material colors.
feel free to edit them to better match the DF ones, if you feel so inclined.
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 02, 2010, 11:34:05 am
Ah very well, I'll go tinkering. I am lazy you know... I can't do everything for myself.Does anyone have a tileset which has all of the materials matching their Dwarf Fortress colors? I design my structures to look good in DF and it irks me when they come out differently in stonesense.
there's a colors/ folder with XML files describing all the material colors.
feel free to edit them to better match the DF ones, if you feel so inclined.
Post by: buckets on May 02, 2010, 12:15:06 pm
What's the chances of playing around with how stonesence handles water?
Post by: jonask84 on May 02, 2010, 12:20:04 pm
Woah, fancy. This one likes.Right now it's a little limited. You can change the sprites and transparency etc. We have some really nice features in the pipes, but we haven't been able to get them working with the d31 versions yet
What's the chances of playing around with how stonesence handles water?
Post by: oolon1 on May 02, 2010, 12:36:14 pm
Thanks again for your hard work.
Post by: Retro on May 02, 2010, 12:53:06 pm
Post by: Ivar360 on May 02, 2010, 01:12:33 pm
Is there a help-page for this? (dont feel like going trough 200 pages of this thread)
Post by: Randominality on May 02, 2010, 02:33:37 pm
As soon as I startup stonesense.exe it crashes. I'm running Windows 7 64bit.
Post by: Footkerchief on May 02, 2010, 04:20:59 pm
Ow :( cant seem to get the new slate version to work with my df 31.03.. it just says "connecting to DF..." and stays like that.
Is there a help-page for this? (dont feel like going trough 200 pages of this thread)
Checked the readme?
Post by: jonask84 on May 02, 2010, 04:36:25 pm
These are things to check at least, they've worked before.
If you have any progress, please let us know so we can compile an FAQ
Post by: Alkyon on May 02, 2010, 04:50:12 pm
Ow :( cant seem to get the new slate version to work with my df 31.03.. it just says "connecting to DF..." and stays like that.
Is there a help-page for this? (dont feel like going trough 200 pages of this thread)
Mine just pops up and then disappears. Double click then POOF!
Post by: Petr Ga on May 02, 2010, 04:56:05 pm
works great on win7 64bit with df 31.03
one note. do not forget stonesense is great for adventure mode, too!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ivar360 on May 02, 2010, 05:00:26 pm
@Ivar360 and Randominality: Thanks for reporting the problems. I've been trying it on win7 64bit myself without problems. Have you tried running it in compatibility mode? Have you checked if the programs are running as administrator? And what does the output in the stonesense.log say?
These are things to check at least, they've worked before.
If you have any progress, please let us know so we can compile an FAQ
I'm running windows Vista 32bit, and running in winxp compatibility mode seems to do the trick! (both df and stonesense) :D
The .log file kept repeating: No Dwarf Fortress executable found
Exeption:couldn't find a suitable process
Here's the proof:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Alkyon on May 02, 2010, 05:02:01 pm
Alkyon, try this version (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229). it is just build over most recent SVN trunk.
works great on win7 64bit with df 31.03
Still no luck. I bring it up and it instantly closes. I've tried running in combatability mode and making sure I have DF open. No error, no nothing, just opening and closing faster than I can see.
Edit: Found the error log. "Could not init display"
Post by: Randominality on May 02, 2010, 05:09:40 pm
@Ivar360 and Randominality: Thanks for reporting the problems. I've been trying it on win7 64bit myself without problems. Have you tried running it in compatibility mode? Have you checked if the programs are running as administrator? And what does the output in the stonesense.log say?
These are things to check at least, they've worked before.
If you have any progress, please let us know so we can compile an FAQ
I tried in compatibility mode and as an administrator same result.
stonesense.log says:
Stonesense launched
4096 works.
Post by: Andir on May 02, 2010, 05:37:08 pm
Post by: peterix on May 02, 2010, 05:50:36 pm
Forgive my ignorance on this, but doesn't Win7 have an executable memory protection mechanism of some sort?Yes, it's randomizing the starting address of the first program module. Not very effective.
In general, the application that wants to read from memory of a different application needs to have rights to do it. If you happen to be running them within different 'security contexts', you'll get only fail. Extra system protection utilities can also cause some havoc. It's a good idea to whitelist stonesense if you use something like that.
I have plain Win7 Professional without any extra protection stuff and DFHack-based tools work just fine.
Post by: Andir on May 02, 2010, 05:54:03 pm
Post by: Alkyon on May 02, 2010, 06:04:24 pm
Post by: Retro on May 02, 2010, 06:30:33 pm
ed- Wack, this version doesn't seem to be backwards-compatible with 40d D:
Post by: Dark_Tundra on May 02, 2010, 11:10:27 pm
I tried in compatibility mode and as an administrator same result.I seem to be getting the same:
stonesense.log says:
Stonesense launched
4096 works.
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
4096 works.
Can't init map.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 03, 2010, 02:08:05 am
I am testing stonesense in adventure mode. it is great to see all that elves scattered all over forrest, it helpes.
Now I need to talk to "Epeve", mayor here. Alas, I can't find her and no one gives me directions (which is unrealistic anyway:)
Post by: jonask84 on May 03, 2010, 02:41:04 am
Request for feature: "Find a creature"
I am testing stonesense in adventure mode. it is great to see all that elves scattered all over forrest, it helpes.
Now I need to talk to "Epeve", mayor here. Alas, I can't find her and no one gives me directions (which is unrealistic anyway:)
That's an interesting idea, but not what Stonesense is about :) However, you seem to have the compiler up and running: Why don't have a whack at implementing it yourself? I'll help you if you have any questions :)
And at the people who are having problems getting the new version to run: I understand how frustrating it must be, and know that we are working on trying to figuring it out.
If you're getting display related problems try disabling openGL.
Best of all, if you can build and debug the source, this will give you (and us) a much clearer idea of what goes wrong :) Good luck guys!
Post by: Petr Ga on May 03, 2010, 02:46:14 am
Request for feature: "Find a creature"
I am testing stonesense in adventure mode. it is great to see all that elves scattered all over forrest, it helpes.
Now I need to talk to "Epeve", mayor here. Alas, I can't find her and no one gives me directions (which is unrealistic anyway:)
That's an interesting idea, but not what Stonesense is about :) However, you seem to have the compiler up and running: Why don't have a whack at implementing it yourself? I'll help you if you have any questions :)
And at the people who are having problems getting the new version to run: I understand how frustrating it must be, and know that we are working on trying to figuring it out.
If you're getting display related problems try disabling openGL.
Best of all, if you can build and debug the source, this will give you (and us) a much clearer idea of what goes wrong :) Good luck guys!
Thanks for the reply ;)
At this time, I apply to join Khazad revival project, so maybe if it fails, I try something with Stonesense.
Anyway, I am dabbling C programmer :)
Post by: Raz on May 03, 2010, 03:15:07 am
Post by: ank on May 03, 2010, 03:32:42 am
when i open stonesense(i have DF open) i get the intro screen, and press F9. then the screen just goes black. turning OpenGL off makes it crash instead.
this is what's in my Stonesense.log:
Stonesense launched
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
so, wazzup?
Post by: Rose on May 03, 2010, 03:42:25 am
also, try turning off image caching in the init.
Post by: Arihim on May 03, 2010, 05:15:48 am
Intel 82915G/GV/910GL
The old stonesense worked but this one seems not to. I have disabled image caching and pasted in the log files. It doesn't seem to go past "Reading xml Colors.xml" . Happened with the unofficial release as well.
Awesome tool you guys have created here, the preview pics look great!
[ Not sarcasm.... ]
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on May 03, 2010, 05:27:41 am
Running on windows xp sp3. I have a crappy intergrated intel graphics card :
Intel 82915G/GV/910GL
The old stonesense worked but this one seems not to. I have disabled image caching and pasted in the log files. It doesn't seem to go past "Reading xml Colors.xml" . Happened with the unofficial release as well.
Awesome tool you guys have created here, the preview pics look great!
[ Not sarcasm.... ]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
have you tried disabling openGL yet?
otherwise, your graphics card probably doesn't support Stonesense.
Post by: jonask84 on May 03, 2010, 06:15:37 am
otherwise, your graphics card probably doesn't support Stonesense.
.. And if that is the case, know that we are trying to create a non-accelerated version with simpler graphics, that can run on lower end graphics cards :)
Post by: Arihim on May 03, 2010, 07:50:37 am
Running on windows xp sp3. I have a crappy intergrated intel graphics card :
Intel 82915G/GV/910GL
The old stonesense worked but this one seems not to. I have disabled image caching and pasted in the log files. It doesn't seem to go past "Reading xml Colors.xml" . Happened with the unofficial release as well.
Awesome tool you guys have created here, the preview pics look great!
[ Not sarcasm.... ]Spoiler (click to show/hide)
have you tried disabling openGL yet?
otherwise, your graphics card probably doesn't support Stonesense.
Yep, that did the trick. Though, the interface is really slow.
I should probably spend some money and buy a decent computer. This thing cost me $100 dollars lol..
used office computer from my old mans workplace ha!
Post by: Randominality on May 03, 2010, 02:15:49 pm
The old stonesense worked fine though.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on May 03, 2010, 09:34:52 pm
Post by: Alu on May 04, 2010, 05:13:55 am
(Wolfes and Elefant Calfs are ?, but i dont mind)
I love it :)
Post by: jonask84 on May 04, 2010, 05:21:24 am
Post by: ASnogarD on May 04, 2010, 06:02:46 am
It starts fine and follows my cursor nicely for a while but frequently will show just a blue screen (in the stonesense window) and while CTRL and arrows restore the image, I cant get it to resume following and updating.
Pressing F or CTRL F just does a update and toggles the message following DF window.
Is there a way to get the program to resume following and updating ?
(Updating, as in you see the dwarfs run about doing thier work )
I also noticed pressing + on the numeric pad twice will cause Stonesense to stop working and crash... every time, the first time you press it changes updates to 0.1 ... second time and you get a message from Windows.
(on Win 7 64bit Home Prem ed.)
Love the program, keep up the great work.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on May 04, 2010, 07:11:41 am
...
It starts fine and follows my cursor nicely for a while but frequently will show just a blue screen (in the stonesense window) and while CTRL and arrows restore the image, I cant get it to resume following and updating.
Pressing F or CTRL F just does a update and toggles the message following DF window.
Is there a way to get the program to resume following and updating ?
(Updating, as in you see the dwarfs run about doing thier work )
...
I get that every now and then... only solution I can suggest is restarting stonesense. I think it's losing the DF process somehow(not a programmer! wild guess!) and is just showing what it had last read when you use "CTRL and arrows".
Post by: amazoph on May 04, 2010, 12:38:59 pm
I'm running Win 7 and have an ATI Radeon 4850 - the crash report mentions the ATI opengl driver, so I'm probably out of luck.
Anyone else having similar problems?
Post by: MP2E on May 04, 2010, 11:05:06 pm
Code: [Select]
[ 24%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/BlockCondition.cpp.o
In file included from /home/cray/stonesensesvn/ContentLoader.h:6:0,
from /home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:9:
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/GroundMaterialConfiguration.h:16:38: error: overridingMaterials was not declared in this scope
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/GroundMaterialConfiguration.h:16:35: error: >> should be > > within a nested template argument list
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp: In member function void Block::Draw():
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:544:84: error: cannot convert int* to ALLEGRO_COLOR* for argument 5 to void al_get_separate_blender(int*, int*, int*, int*, ALLEGRO_COLOR*)
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:586:153: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:595:100: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:616:79: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:625:170: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:627:82: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:651:124: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:653:78: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:657:121: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:659:78: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:673:153: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:675:79: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:682:169: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:684:81: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:740:161: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:745:79: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:769:153: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:771:79: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:776:169: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:778:81: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:807:154: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:811:80: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:818:170: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:822:82: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:834:154: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:836:80: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:841:170: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:843:82: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:946:77: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp: In member function void Block::DrawRamptops():
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:981:85: error: cannot convert int* to ALLEGRO_COLOR* for argument 5 to void al_get_separate_blender(int*, int*, int*, int*, ALLEGRO_COLOR*)
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:1006:153: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/Block.cpp:1008:79: error: conversion from int to non-scalar type ALLEGRO_COLOR requested
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
In file included from /home/cray/stonesensesvn/ContentLoader.h:6:0,
from /home/cray/stonesensesvn/BlockCondition.cpp:4:
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/GroundMaterialConfiguration.h:16:38: error: overridingMaterials was not declared in this scope
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/GroundMaterialConfiguration.h:16:35: error: >> should be > > within a nested template argument list
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/BlockCondition.cpp: In constructor MaterialTypeCondition::MaterialTypeCondition(const char*, const char*):
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/BlockCondition.cpp:102:83: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/BlockCondition.cpp: In member function virtual bool NotConditionalNode::addCondition(BlockCondition*):
/home/cray/stonesensesvn/BlockCondition.cpp:325:66: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/BlockCondition.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Post by: peterix on May 05, 2010, 01:39:32 am
revision 786 refuses to build on Arch Linux with the allegro5 package installed:Is it the right version? You need 4.9.19 AFAIK.
Post by: aldantefax on May 05, 2010, 05:45:48 am
I experience some drastic slowdown, however, when I hook Stonesense into DF 31.03. I am running Win7 64-bit with an ATI 4800. Presently, if DF is running by itself on a fresh install, it runs excellent. As soon as Stonesense hooks in, there is visual hiccuping and input lag inside of DF. Fiddling with Partial Print in DF init.txt, as well as all combinations of USE_OPENGL and CACHE_IMAGES doesn't seem to do anything.
Any information pointing me in the right direction would be swell - otherwise, keep up the good work!
Post by: Petr Ga on May 05, 2010, 06:21:23 am
Hello! I have never actually tried using stonesense before, but I figure I would give it a whirl now that a version is out for the 2010 version of DF.
I experience some drastic slowdown, however, when I hook Stonesense into DF 31.03. I am running Win7 64-bit with an ATI 4800. Presently, if DF is running by itself on a fresh install, it runs excellent. As soon as Stonesense hooks in, there is visual hiccuping and input lag inside of DF. Fiddling with Partial Print in DF init.txt, as well as all combinations of USE_OPENGL and CACHE_IMAGES doesn't seem to do anything.
Any information pointing me in the right direction would be swell - otherwise, keep up the good work!
do you have df accelerator?
Post by: aldantefax on May 05, 2010, 02:39:55 pm
Post by: buckets on May 05, 2010, 07:13:29 pm
Hello! I have never actually tried using stonesense before, but I figure I would give it a whirl now that a version is out for the 2010 version of DF.
I experience some drastic slowdown, however, when I hook Stonesense into DF 31.03. I am running Win7 64-bit with an ATI 4800. Presently, if DF is running by itself on a fresh install, it runs excellent. As soon as Stonesense hooks in, there is visual hiccuping and input lag inside of DF. Fiddling with Partial Print in DF init.txt, as well as all combinations of USE_OPENGL and CACHE_IMAGES doesn't seem to do anything.
Any information pointing me in the right direction would be swell - otherwise, keep up the good work!
I'm running Win7 64 bit, but with an 8800GT, no problems. Maybe it's you graphic card?
Post by: MP2E on May 05, 2010, 08:06:22 pm
Yep, pacman -Qs allegro5 turns out version 4.9.19revision 786 refuses to build on Arch Linux with the allegro5 package installed:Is it the right version? You need 4.9.19 AFAIK.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on May 06, 2010, 08:17:06 am
with opengl set to on it just crashes on start, regardless of DF running or not. with opengl off, i get this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
and then it just crashes. when i turned the caching thing off, i get this instead -
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
then it crashes with the message "cannot load image: buildings\include\...\workshops.png". dwarf fortress will also crash, trying to maniuplate it causes windows to pop up the message that df is no longer responding and needs to be closed.
the old version of stonesense did work ok on this computer.
im running an older windows xp machine with a p4 2.6ghz and onboard graphics card that dxdiag lists as "intel(R) 82865G Graphics Controller" with 96mb of memory.
Post by: Spillbert on May 06, 2010, 09:19:08 am
Stonesense launched
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
Exeption:couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
Post by: jonask84 on May 06, 2010, 09:47:17 am
@Cheshire Cat: If DF locks up, at any point, use the dfunstuck.exe utility to save it. We know there are some instabilities for some users, and have included this tool for that very reason. It's all in the readme :)
Post by: Rose on May 06, 2010, 11:46:24 am
there's a file in the stonesense root called index.txt that tells stonesense what content files to load. try adding a '#' to the beginning of the line referring to buildings/index.txt, to stop it from loading the building images. (they take the most memory, since there's a lot of them) this will replace all the buildings with yellow blocks, but should increase the chances of stonesense working. if that doesn't work, disable some more lines, like the vegetation, or creatures.
Post by: Marconius on May 06, 2010, 06:32:54 pm
This issue is present both for the opening screen and in the actual isometric view, for creature names.
My Regional settings were set to Japanese. I set them to Hungarian (which is a fairly basic latin-letter using setting) as a test, but the problem remained.
I also tried changing the font type used, using a file I found elsewhere on my computer. The font changed properly, but the problem remained.
Any idea as to what may be wrong?
Post by: jonask84 on May 07, 2010, 02:28:11 am
...
Any idea as to what may be wrong?
Hmm, that's a pretty strange one. I have to ask; did you try setting your language to English?
Also, when you say half the letters, do you mean every other letter? And are the ones that remain correct or just some random letter?
Off the top of my head you might want to check your encoding. I know some use more bytes per letter, but I thought this would be pretty standard and universal.
Post by: ank on May 07, 2010, 02:41:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: ASnogarD on May 07, 2010, 06:48:41 am
Post by: James.Denholm on May 07, 2010, 06:56:28 am
Is there a way , or a key I missed, to restart auto updating when it stops ? The stopping is random, initially I thought it was the seasonal saving option, but it doesnt always stop the auto updating, and other times it has stopped and there wasnt an event.
Check out "dfunstuck.exe" in the Stonesense folder. Check, check it out, check it out now!
Post by: ASnogarD on May 07, 2010, 07:01:40 am
I mean when Stonesense stops automatically updating the image, not freezing... its easy enough to restart Stonesense but would be nice to have a ability to just tell Stonesense to auto update again.
Post by: James.Denholm on May 07, 2010, 07:11:11 am
Thought the unstuck utility was for when Stonesense causes the DF game to freeze (which would cause you to lose unsaved work on that fort) ?
I mean when Stonesense stops automatically updating the image, not freezing... its easy enough to restart Stonesense but would be nice to have a ability to just tell Stonesense to auto update again.
Well, to quote the readme:
Quote from: Readme
IF Stonesense should at any time lock up, it might happen that DF freezes.
If this happens just kill of the Stonesense.exe process (if it didn't die on itself)
and use the dfunstuck.exe utility supplied with this distribution.
I guess this is the point where I bow out of the support process because I no longer have any idea what I'm talking about and it's late.
Post by: Marconius on May 07, 2010, 08:57:03 am
...
Any idea as to what may be wrong?
Hmm, that's a pretty strange one. I have to ask; did you try setting your language to English?
Also, when you say half the letters, do you mean every other letter? And are the ones that remain correct or just some random letter?
Off the top of my head you might want to check your encoding. I know some use more bytes per letter, but I thought this would be pretty standard and universal.
I tried setting my language for non-Unicode programs to English (US), it didn't make a difference.
No, I don't mean every other letter, it's just random letters all over the place. The ones that remain seem to be the correct ones, yes.
Here is a screenshot of the opening screen:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
As for my encoding... what exactly do you mean by that? Or to be more precise, where exactly should I try checking/setting this?
Post by: Alu on May 07, 2010, 11:04:19 am
Is there a way to make a map-screenshot? I kind of want to know, how my map looks in 3D :)
Post by: Jerkald on May 07, 2010, 11:23:14 am
Post by: Retro on May 07, 2010, 11:47:14 am
First off, Stonesense is working great so far!
Is there a way to make a map-screenshot? I kind of want to know, how my map looks in 3D :)
If you're using Windows, hold Alt and press Print Screen (may be shown as 'Prt Sc'). Then open up a graphics editing program (such as MS Paint) and Paste it in there. There's probably a similar equivalent for Macs, but I don't know it.
Post by: Marconius on May 07, 2010, 11:50:51 am
Post by: Alu on May 07, 2010, 01:02:52 pm
I want a screenshot of the whole map at once, or is this possible to view the whole map at once with stonesense?
Post by: FatedTemp on May 07, 2010, 04:24:21 pm
Its F5 i think, but this isnt what i mean.
I want a screenshot of the whole map at once, or is this possible to view the whole map at once with stonesense?
Technically it should be possible right? If you set the Stonesense window size large enough to display your entire fort, and it actually runs, then the internal screenshot feature should take a picture of the entire Stonesense window even if that doesn't fit on your monitor ... possibly anyway. A small map would probably help though.
Also I don't think I've posted in this thread to say how great Stonesense is yet, so keep up the good work, it's looking better all the time.
Post by: dyze on May 07, 2010, 04:28:49 pm
Its F5 i think, but this isnt what i mean.
I want a screenshot of the whole map at once, or is this possible to view the whole map at once with stonesense?
someone was working on this at one point, cant remember who. try backtracking 50-100 pages or so :P
Post by: Mike Mayday on May 07, 2010, 05:12:15 pm
Post by: Djohaal on May 07, 2010, 10:57:21 pm
If not just give me a whack on my head and I'll it myself. 8)
Post by: Rose on May 08, 2010, 12:04:21 am
First off, Stonesense is working great so far!
Is there a way to make a map-screenshot? I kind of want to know, how my map looks in 3D :)
the key for the is CTRL+F5, but it takes a veeeeeeery long time to do it, since the sizes involved are generally too large for graphics cards, and we have to switch to the far slower software rendering.
I wonder if a "simplified" (16-color like DF) colorset for stones could be made available. I'm making a fort out of dark stones (granite, gabbro, etc), and it looks multicolored in stonesense. The xml is easily editable but I'd imagine you folks probably have some batch tools there to do this faster than me...
If not just give me a whack on my head and I'll it myself. 8)
I spent hours going through a list of the materials used, doing imagesearches on them, copying the images to photoshop, and typing in the colors manually, so no, I don't have a batch tool to do it.
on the other hand, you can look at the gems.xml to see a simple way of using few colors, since tehre was no way in hell I was going to do the above-mentioned process for 100+ types of gems that are only seen in stonesense in raw ore form, and in windows.
Post by: Djohaal on May 08, 2010, 11:17:03 am
First off, Stonesense is working great so far!
Is there a way to make a map-screenshot? I kind of want to know, how my map looks in 3D :)
the key for the is CTRL+F5, but it takes a veeeeeeery long time to do it, since the sizes involved are generally too large for graphics cards, and we have to switch to the far slower software rendering.I wonder if a "simplified" (16-color like DF) colorset for stones could be made available. I'm making a fort out of dark stones (granite, gabbro, etc), and it looks multicolored in stonesense. The xml is easily editable but I'd imagine you folks probably have some batch tools there to do this faster than me...
If not just give me a whack on my head and I'll it myself. 8)
I spent hours going through a list of the materials used, doing imagesearches on them, copying the images to photoshop, and typing in the colors manually, so no, I don't have a batch tool to do it.
on the other hand, you can look at the gems.xml to see a simple way of using few colors, since tehre was no way in hell I was going to do the above-mentioned process for 100+ types of gems that are only seen in stonesense in raw ore form, and in windows.
Oh what a pity for the gems not being visible as objects. They would look very nice... :(
Post by: buckets on May 08, 2010, 07:19:25 pm
First off, Stonesense is working great so far!
Is there a way to make a map-screenshot? I kind of want to know, how my map looks in 3D :)
the key for the is CTRL+F5, but it takes a veeeeeeery long time to do it, since the sizes involved are generally too large for graphics cards, and we have to switch to the far slower software rendering.I wonder if a "simplified" (16-color like DF) colorset for stones could be made available. I'm making a fort out of dark stones (granite, gabbro, etc), and it looks multicolored in stonesense. The xml is easily editable but I'd imagine you folks probably have some batch tools there to do this faster than me...
If not just give me a whack on my head and I'll it myself. 8)
I spent hours going through a list of the materials used, doing imagesearches on them, copying the images to photoshop, and typing in the colors manually, so no, I don't have a batch tool to do it.
on the other hand, you can look at the gems.xml to see a simple way of using few colors, since tehre was no way in hell I was going to do the above-mentioned process for 100+ types of gems that are only seen in stonesense in raw ore form, and in windows.
Oh what a pity for the gems not being visible as objects. They would look very nice... :(
They're not even visible as materials for objects, I have and invisible artifact hatch cover that I would love to see.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 12:48:42 pm
First off, Stonesense is working great so far!
Is there a way to make a map-screenshot? I kind of want to know, how my map looks in 3D :)
the key for the is CTRL+F5, but it takes a veeeeeeery long time to do it, since the sizes involved are generally too large for graphics cards, and we have to switch to the far slower software rendering.
yeah. it took forever (like 20 hours) but it is done (http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/2606/wholemap.png)
plus here - warning, quite big picture
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2010, 12:52:18 pm
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 12:59:22 pm
That took 20 hours?!maybe 10. i switched laptop to sleep twice inbetween so it was on and off, I am not sure about time
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 09, 2010, 01:05:04 pm
Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.
Post by: Retro on May 09, 2010, 01:11:45 pm
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 01:12:32 pm
Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...
Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.
ok i take another screenshot to measure that. now without that black tiles. Start: 20:10
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 01:25:43 pm
Question: Is Slate going to become compatible for 40d at any point? I'd love to be able to see my old forts with the new features.i'd be surprised. that "d" can be read as "dead", as well
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 01:28:45 pm
Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...
Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.
dont forget this is pure software renderer. nothing hardware accelerated due to image size
Post by: Trigonous on May 09, 2010, 01:47:45 pm
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 01:51:33 pm
I'm just wondering how I can tell if content in the repository is compatible with the new release, or if it should be by default.
it is slightly never right now
just compare revision date with date of edit of first post in this thread
edit: there is branch release_Slate_rc1. so trunk is definitely newer
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 09, 2010, 02:19:21 pm
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on May 09, 2010, 02:22:39 pm
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 02:24:04 pm
try 7zip, it's light and simple and free (as in free speech)
that or http://winrar.de/download.php or total commander - ghisler.com
Post by: Lonewolf I on May 09, 2010, 02:33:20 pm
Post by: Greiger on May 09, 2010, 02:35:37 pm
I'm just wondering how I can tell if content in the repository is compatible with the new release, or if it should be by default.
Yea I don't think much is compatible out of the box on the repository yet. From what I've seen for creatures though it's usually just a simple find and replace job to make them compatible. Go to the content's xml file and wherever you find 'sex="F"' replace it with 'sex="1"' Find sex="M" and replace that with sex="2"
It won't have the new jobs yet but they should just put in whatever the maker set up as the default sprite if it can't determine the job.
Post by: Soralin on May 09, 2010, 04:06:24 pm
It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to just use the hardware render, and just do it section by section, and then stitch them together after. I mean, you can already do that by hand by just taking a bunch of screenshots of your fortress and pasting them together into one big image.Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...
Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.
dont forget this is pure software renderer. nothing hardware accelerated due to image size
Post by: peterix on May 09, 2010, 04:35:44 pm
Stonesense needs some optimization love. Actually, a lot of it. I did it for the previous release, but don't have time for messing around with it right now. I do have some ideas on what to do though.It seems like it wouldn't be that difficult to just use the hardware render, and just do it section by section, and then stitch them together after. I mean, you can already do that by hand by just taking a bunch of screenshots of your fortress and pasting them together into one big image.Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...
Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.
dont forget this is pure software renderer. nothing hardware accelerated due to image size
First, why the hell do a few sprites eat up so much memory that it doesn't work with integrated intel graphics? Does it load everything and then generate how each sprite looks for every single material? That would be most unfortunate and in dire need of replacement with a sprite cache with garbage collection.
Second, that whole-map-screenshot. As you said, it should piece it together from smaller parts. 20 hours is just too much ... hell, my browser can display that whole thing without any lag, it shouldn't take so long to generate.
Third - DFHack is not used effectively, and when the SDL merge hits, it will become even more apparent. Input code should be decoupled from display and maploading from everything else, by using a double-buffering scheme with DFHack being used in a thread. Everything should be as >ASYNCHRONOUS< as possible.
And there are probably heaps of other things that could be optimized... I would have to dig into the codebase.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 09, 2010, 04:40:36 pm
...
And there are probably heaps of other things that could be optimized... I would have to dig into the codebase.
Best part of your post :) promising!
merge version will be tomorrow, guessing on dev log.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 10, 2010, 02:07:41 am
....aaaaand it is finished in 07:06. So it took 10 hours and 56 minutes to produce this (http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/2606/wholemap.png)Oh... sleep suspends it. And laptop...
Its not even that big of a map. even 10 hours is a bit excessive.
ok i take another screenshot to measure that. now without that black tiles. Start: 20:10
(or this
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Maxxeh on May 10, 2010, 08:35:16 am
I thought mine just crashed when I pressed it!
would 2x 8800ultra's not be able to render it faster? or at all? if you eneabled hardware rendering.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 10, 2010, 08:41:26 am
that's a pretty horrific render time! as a 3D modeler, I use 3D rendering programs all the time, and hardly even need to wait that long for something 10x more complex than this! lol
I thought mine just crashed when I pressed it!
would 2x 8800ultra's not be able to render it faster? or at all? if you eneabled hardware rendering.
i am not sure if you can enable it. it is hardcoded :) but "someone" will look into it. see above
Post by: jonask84 on May 10, 2010, 10:05:08 am
I think we all agree that the whole map render feature is not at all a feature yet, but an experimental doodad (This is also sorta why it's not in the feature list yet). We had to focus our efforts elsewhere for this release, but I guess now that we have some spare time we can look at a smarter implementation.
Post by: Maxxeh on May 10, 2010, 12:52:19 pm
I think the fact that 3D visualisers havn't been released for 2010 yet increases the desirability to see the whole map.
Post by: Djohaal on May 10, 2010, 01:42:18 pm
Post by: Petr Ga on May 11, 2010, 02:32:41 am
Alright guys, keep your pants on ;)
I think we all agree that the whole map render feature is not at all a feature yet, but an experimental doodad (This is also sorta why it's not in the feature list yet). We had to focus our efforts elsewhere for this release, but I guess now that we have some spare time we can look at a smarter implementation.
Hey, I'm not complaining! :) It was posted just for sake of curiosity.
But if that gives you some message, then, yeah, quest completed
Let us know when code is fixed. I want to take world map - I hope it will be Ctrl-Shift-F5 :)
Post by: Rose on May 11, 2010, 03:06:43 am
@Full map screenshot: The reason it takes so long is because all of the images are stored in video ram by default, and writing from video ram to system ram (as happens when you take a large screenshot) or vice versa, takes a very long time. When all of the textures are in system ram, as will be an option in the next release, it will go far far far faster. (took me about 20 seconds)
Stonesense needs some optimization love. Actually, a lot of it. I did it for the previous release, but don't have time for messing around with it right now. I do have some ideas on what to do though.
Sorry, my fault. I'm a freaking noob here... >_<
First, why the hell do a few sprites eat up so much memory that it doesn't work with integrated intel graphics? Does it load everything and then generate how each sprite looks for every single material? That would be most unfortunate and in dire need of replacement with a sprite cache with garbage collection.
No, no new sprites are generated. The main cause of problems is not, in fact, the video memory reqirements, but OpenGL. Microsoft doesn't seem to like it, and so most onboard drivers that come with windows have shitty OpenGL support.
The only reason OpenGL is currently default is because the version of allegro being used for this release has drawing issues in DirectX. These are fixed in the next version, so DirectX will be the default, and there will be a software option as well. (but this one is kinda slow)
Second, that whole-map-screenshot. As you said, it should piece it together from smaller parts. 20 hours is just too much ... hell, my browser can display that whole thing without any lag, it shouldn't take so long to generate.
20 hours will be a thing of the past, thankfully.
The problem with peicing it together from smaller parts is that... hmm.... it's doable, actually, but I'm hoping after the next release it won't be needed.
Third - DFHack is not used effectively, and when the SDL merge hits, it will become even more apparent. Input code should be decoupled from display and maploading from everything else, by using a double-buffering scheme with DFHack being used in a thread. Everything should be as >ASYNCHRONOUS< as possible.
And there are probably heaps of other things that could be optimized... I would have to dig into the codebase.
Input code is decoupled from display, other than the arrow keys, which don't need to be, and the mouse, which should be... I'll go ahead and fix that.
As for making the rest of the stuff asynch, like I said, I
m a noob programmer that doesn't know how to do mystical threading voodoo ;)
I'm just wondering how I can tell if content in the repository is compatible with the new release, or if it should be by default.
Yea I don't think much is compatible out of the box on the repository yet. From what I've seen for creatures though it's usually just a simple find and replace job to make them compatible. Go to the content's xml file and wherever you find 'sex="F"' replace it with 'sex="1"' Find sex="M" and replace that with sex="2"
It won't have the new jobs yet but they should just put in whatever the maker set up as the default sprite if it can't determine the job.
You don't need to do that. sex="M" and sex="F" still work fine, the numbers are only for if you have castes.
it's the jobs that are the issue, and you can use DFhack to get a list of valid ones. (or convince Jonask to include the lob list in the next release, I don't know why he took that out)
I want to take world map
No.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 11, 2010, 03:41:31 am
OK, Q&A time.I want to take world map
No.
"No" as "not doable" or "not intended"?
Thanks for all those answers!
Post by: jonask84 on May 11, 2010, 03:45:37 am
OK, Q&A time.I want to take world map
No.
"No" as "not doable" or "not intended"?
Thanks for all those answers!
What is essential to understand here, is that the world does not yet exist. Only general information about each map 'square' is known. The exact layout of each square is generated on embark. SO if you've only embarked once on a 3x3 grid, your entire world is only 9 squares big.
Toady does this, naturally, because it would be impossible to simulate each and every tile, tree, creek etc in the entire world at once.
I understand entirely! lol, it's not like it's actually important!Hehe yeah I agree. Of course, the 3D visualizers are really neat for that. Stonesense tries to be more of a live thing. But we will put some work into this, since it's a nice feature to have.
I think the fact that 3D visualisers havn't been released for 2010 yet increases the desirability to see the whole map.
Post by: Retro on May 11, 2010, 04:11:11 am
What is essential to understand here, is that the world does not yet exist. Only general information about each map 'square' is known. The exact layout of each square is generated on embark. SO if you've only embarked once on a 3x3 grid, your entire world is only 9 squares big.
Toady does this, naturally, because it would be impossible to simulate each and every tile, tree, creek etc in the entire world at once.
I'm wondering if that's what he was asking the first place. Take a world map and render it as a single-layer map in Stonesense with each isometric tile representing a map tile, just to get a better look at a general representation of the world from a distance. So a 50x50 world (38400x38400 game tiles) would show up as a 50x50 map purely based off of the tile types see in the world map (ie. mountains of various types, lakes, grasslands, hills, marshes, etc).
Post by: Petr Ga on May 11, 2010, 04:48:51 am
I want to take world map
What is essential to understand here, is that the world does not yet exist. Only general information about each map 'square' is known. The exact layout of each square is generated on embark. SO if you've only embarked once on a 3x3 grid, your entire world is only 9 squares big.
Toady does this, naturally, because it would be impossible to simulate each and every tile, tree, creek etc in the entire world at once.
so, in theory, someone could make an utility that force DF to embark on every tile of world and then take map screenshot, and at the end stick them together, right?
Pheeeew, it would be truely
Post by: Truean on May 11, 2010, 05:27:59 am
Quote
Quote from: jonask84 on Today at 03:45:37 am
Quote from: Petr Ga on Today at 02:32:41 am
I want to take world map
What is essential to understand here, is that the world does not yet exist. Only general information about each map 'square' is known. The exact layout of each square is generated on embark. SO if you've only embarked once on a 3x3 grid, your entire world is only 9 squares big.
Toady does this, naturally, because it would be impossible to simulate each and every tile, tree, creek etc in the entire world at once.
so, in theory, someone could make an utility that force DF to embark on every tile of world and then take map screenshot, and at the end stick them together, right?
Pheeeew, it would be truely time consuming dwarfy!
Academically, how can that be the case in light of adventure mode? Also, if you embark, don't save and re embark, you get the exact same area each time. Even if you embark in an overlapping area slightly to the left, it seems like the same area. Thus am I missing something or...?
Post by: Rose on May 11, 2010, 05:32:35 am
thing is, the way it does it, it will always result in the same square for each location.
This (http://www.infinity-universe.com/Infinity/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=75&topic=7426.0) is a good explanation for how it works. it's for a different one-man game, but it's still relavent
Post by: KernelM on May 11, 2010, 06:05:21 am
As for making the rest of the stuff asynch, like I said, I
m a noob programmer that doesn't know how to do mystical threading voodoo ;)
Heh, I thought that too until a few months ago when I found a tutorial about threading. I ended up creating some very simple (and very basic) classes to handle threading in windows in c++. Can't seem to find the tutorial again at the moment.
You can find them here: https://sourceforge.net/projects/blockplanet/files/Tests/ in threads.zip if you're interested. :).
Also included is a simple test program. Written in MS Visual Studio so you might need to change some bits depending on what you use.
Dunno if they'll help.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 11, 2010, 06:08:46 am
QuoteQuote from: jonask84 on Today at 03:45:37 am
Quote from: Petr Ga on Today at 02:32:41 am
I want to take world map
What is essential to understand here, is that the world does not yet exist. Only general information about each map 'square' is known. The exact layout of each square is generated on embark. SO if you've only embarked once on a 3x3 grid, your entire world is only 9 squares big.
Toady does this, naturally, because it would be impossible to simulate each and every tile, tree, creek etc in the entire world at once.
so, in theory, someone could make an utility that force DF to embark on every tile of world and then take map screenshot, and at the end stick them together, right?
Pheeeew, it would be truely time consuming dwarfy!
Academically, how can that be the case in light of adventure mode? Also, if you embark, don't save and re embark, you get the exact same area each time. Even if you embark in an overlapping area slightly to the left, it seems like the same area. Thus am I missing something or...?
Good point!
Stonesense works in adventure mode. So, if I force make my adventurer travel from stonesense/some tool, i can make world map.
any catch here?
Post by: Haspen on May 11, 2010, 06:25:07 am
I mean, one tile per region, sooo... dunno. Maybe tall towers of single rock type representing a mountain or something? xP
Go science~!
Post by: forsaken1111 on May 11, 2010, 06:27:46 am
Post by: Petr Ga on May 11, 2010, 08:54:28 am
ANY/DIRECTX/OPENGL - screenshots are not working.
Normal screenshot makes file like 1,8KB small, black image
Large screenshot gives this: "Failed to take large screenshot. try using software mode"
anyway, great job. it is funny to watch maximalization of ss: directx stretch image, then correct it , opengl stretch just window and image is the sam with black around.
directx has some issue with font after resizing to max. somewhat unreadable
Post by: Rose on May 11, 2010, 09:08:50 am
@large screenshots: that error comes when your videocard does no have the required ram for a large screenshot. try again with software rendering. (don't worry, it'll be reasonably quick);
Post by: Petr Ga on May 11, 2010, 09:30:13 am
@screenshots: fixed in revision 792;
I'll try
@large screenshots: that error comes when your videocard does no have the required ram for a large screenshot. try again with software rendering. (don't worry, it'll be reasonably quick);
is there other way than edit init.txt? You know, something like ogre3d dialog "choose renderer"
Post by: Rose on May 11, 2010, 09:35:30 am
Post by: Petr Ga on May 12, 2010, 10:53:46 am
it connects to df but when map should appear, i see very shortly blue color and then again "connecting to df" and again blue color and so on
log:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Truean on May 12, 2010, 11:30:57 am
This will be very tedious and will probably require the user to line up individual screenshots like pieces of a puzzle by visual clues. Though incredibly difficult it would be theoretically possible. Granted this is an unfavorable alternative, but an alternative none-the-less.
Post by: riznar on May 12, 2010, 05:54:29 pm
When I run stonesense slate it has a weird layering issue:
http://i.imgur.com/Vd4Gn.png
If someone wants to point me to a bug report page if it exists I'll be happy to file a report
Post by: Rose on May 13, 2010, 01:27:08 am
and your problem is very strange, and seems to be isolated, so I can't really help, sorry.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on May 13, 2010, 04:50:38 am
I didn't see a bug report area, sorry if I missed it.That's what my stonesense granite looked like when photoshop automatically added alpha to the .png files, does it look like that before you start scrolling the view?
When I run stonesense slate it has a weird layering issue:
http://i.imgur.com/Vd4Gn.png
If someone wants to point me to a bug report page if it exists I'll be happy to file a report
Post by: Petr Ga on May 13, 2010, 05:35:45 am
this is pretty much the bug report page.
and your problem is very strange, and seems to be isolated, so I can't really help, sorry.
Forget that, it is working now. I modified init.txt and there was newer version.
anyway, the colors are fun as hell! colored cats are hilarious
Post by: Inspiration on May 13, 2010, 07:12:17 pm
Log:
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
4096 works.
backbuffer w, h: 0, 0
backbuffer w, h: 800, 600
I'm running this on Vista, with DF 3.1.3.
Post by: Astarti on May 16, 2010, 07:04:56 am
In computer i have Win7
I want Stonesense to run in compatible mode XP and Vista and also does not work.
Help me pls how i can run it Stonesense on Win7
Post by: Rose on May 16, 2010, 07:22:32 am
I have windows 7 and it works fine.
what exactly is the problem you are facing?
have you tried all of the troubleshooting options in the init.txt?
Post by: Astarti on May 16, 2010, 01:05:56 pm
you need to be more specific than that.
I have windows 7 and it works fine.
what exactly is the problem you are facing?
have you tried all of the troubleshooting options in the init.txt?
I have Win7 and 1280x1024 screen resolution. Graphic card : Radeon 3650. In the game I'm not to set any options and also Stonesense. The game runs smoothly. When I start stonesense to appear next picture http://yfrog.com/esschrnka01xj
Then Stonesense crashes. In file Stonesense.log is writing :
Log:
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
4096 works.
Can't init map
Post by: jonask84 on May 16, 2010, 06:30:07 pm
I have Win7 and 1280x1024 screen resolution. Graphic card : Radeon 3650. In the game I'm not to set any options and also Stonesense. The game runs smoothly. When I start stonesense to appear next picture http://yfrog.com/esschrnka01xj
Hmm Thanks for the screenshot, we know there's nothing with the graphcis at least.
Looks like there are problems connecting to DF. Did you say you are seeing the same on windows XP?
A thing to check is that you run as administrator.
Post by: James.Denholm on May 18, 2010, 06:57:12 am
Post by: Retro on May 18, 2010, 07:02:17 am
Has anyone been able to use Stonesense in .31.04? I haven't, but I suspect that may merely be due to change of the excutable's filename, from "dwarfort.exe" to "Dwarf Fortress.exe". I'd have a fiddle with the name to check this, but I'm not at my computer currently.
Mine's still called 'dwarfort.exe,' and SS won't work in it either. I'm guessing the terrific programming team will have to touch up a few things for it to work in this version.
Post by: Rose on May 18, 2010, 07:32:09 am
basically, we need new memory offsets and similar junk
Post by: Petr Ga on May 18, 2010, 09:08:04 am
Unfortunateley, no, stonesense does not currently support Df 0.31.04. We depend on the DFhack guys for version support, and they haven't gotten it working yet (just see the ease with which I shift the blame on someone else) but I can assure you, as soon as they get stuff working on their end, it'll leak over to stonesense.
basically, we need new memory offsets and similar junk
and as long as peterix is saturated with school (hey, good luck with your seminar work!), we must wait.
Post by: bartavelle on May 18, 2010, 01:39:45 pm
and as long as peterix is saturated with school (hey, good luck with your seminar work!), we must wait.
I did most of the work today, will finish tomorrow if peterix has no time.
Post by: jonask84 on May 18, 2010, 03:17:39 pm
and as long as peterix is saturated with school (hey, good luck with your seminar work!), we must wait.
I did most of the work today, will finish tomorrow if peterix has no time.
Awesome :) thanks man!
Post by: bartavelle on May 18, 2010, 04:22:35 pm
I did most of the work today, will finish tomorrow if peterix has no time.
It should be said it was the *easy* part, the windows version.
Post by: Jiri Petru on May 19, 2010, 05:13:37 am
Does this mean the RC1 already uses this feature? I haven't noticed it with dwarves, but perhaps on goblins which are shown in the example?
Post by: Rose on May 19, 2010, 05:34:57 am
Post by: Footkerchief on May 19, 2010, 12:15:12 pm
Japa, I've looked on your guides over on the Magmawiki and noticed that Stonesense is now able to display proper skin, hair, etc. styles and colours. Wow. I mean wow. You guys are amazing.
For anyone who's curious, this is the part he's talking about. (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Adding_Creatures#Subsprites) That's pretty cool. Hopefully someone creates some sprites for it.
Post by: Mike Mayday on May 19, 2010, 01:43:58 pm
Post by: jonask84 on May 19, 2010, 04:44:10 pm
This is incredible! Could the same be done for equipment?
Yup, but that would require some sense of the items worn.. And while that is technically possible right now, it would have to be done quite cleverly not to further strain the CPU. So one thing at a time ;)
Post by: Rose on May 20, 2010, 08:52:04 am
Code: [Select]
<Entry version="v0.31.04" os="windows" id="0.31.04" base="0.31.03" rebase="0x0">
<String name="md5">655a895c5b90d15eb9bb71e28c6c62e5</String>
<HexValue name="pe_timestamp">0x4bf014fa</HexValue>
<Address name="creature_vector">0x167870C</Address>
<Address name="dwarf_race_index">0x1471FBC</Address>
<Address name="dwarf_civ_id">0x1471FB0</Address>
<Address name="mat_inorganics">0x16BD0B0</Address>
<Address name="mat_other">0x16C6478</Address>
<Address name="mat_organics_all">0x16BD0C8</Address>
<Address name="mat_organics_plants">0x16bd0e0</Address>
<Address name="mat_organics_trees">0x16bd110</Address>
<Address name="creature_type_vector">0x16BD204</Address>
<Address name="mat_stuff">0x16C6478</Address>
<Address name="language_vector">0x16BD384</Address>
<Address name="translation_vector">0x16BD3B4</Address>
<Address name="descriptor_colors_vector">0x16C5ACC</Address>
<Address name="descriptor_vectors_start">0x16C5AE4</Address>
<Address name="descriptor_all_colors">0x16C5AFC</Address>
<Address name="current_tick">0xE78780</Address>
<Address name="current_year">0xEAA878</Address>
<Address name="map_data">0x016BAAC4</Address>
<Address name="x_count_block">0x016BAAE4</Address>
<Address name="y_count_block">0x016BAAE8</Address>
<Address name="z_count_block">0x016BAAEC</Address>
<Address name="x_count">0x016BAAF0</Address>
<Address name="y_count">0x016BAAF4</Address>
<Address name="z_count">0x016BAAF8</Address>
<Address name="region_x">0x016BAAFC</Address>
<Address name="region_y">0x016BAB00</Address>
<Address name="region_z">0x016BAB04</Address>
<Address name="world_size_x">0x16BC180</Address>
<Address name="world_size_y">0x16BC182</Address>
<Address name="geoblock_vector">0x16BC8D8</Address>
<Address name="ptr2_region_array">0x16BC920</Address>
<Address name="global_feature_vector">0x16BC8A8</Address>
<Address name="local_feature_start_ptr">0x16BC974</Address>
<Address name="construction_vector">0x1664CD8</Address>
<Address name="vegetation_vector">0x1679D54</Address>
<Address name="buildings_vector">0x16793e8</Address>
<Address name="items_vector">0x1678800</Address>
<Offset name="item_type_accessor">0x0</Offset> Why do i have to redefine this ???
</Entry>
Post by: Greiger on May 20, 2010, 09:35:58 am
And the ascii Linux penguin looks cute.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 20, 2010, 09:40:09 am
Works like a legendary dining room, Thanks Japa!
And the ascii Linux penguin looks cute.
does not work for me. stonesense shows blank map and is set to corner
Post by: Rose on May 20, 2010, 09:45:02 am
just use pgup a bunch of times to go to the surface
Post by: Greiger on May 20, 2010, 09:52:12 am
*cough* Yea it seems to choose the northwestern most section of the map, at the lowest z level as default. I just hit pageup until I was at the surface without even thinking twice.
Post by: Woof on May 20, 2010, 09:54:01 am
Works like a charm, thanks!
does not work for me. stonesense shows blank map and is set to corner
Same, scroll up ~150 z-levels :)
Edit: I hate active threads, people reply before I get a chance and I look like a fool.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 20, 2010, 09:54:53 am
yeah, it doesn't currently follow the view
just use pgup a bunch of times to go to the surface
thanks! is there a way how to say in init.txt that starting position is somewhere ?
anyway, I updated unofficial stonesense build (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229) on dffd :)
Post by: Rose on May 20, 2010, 10:38:04 am
Code: [Select]
<Address name="window_dims">0x18030fc</Address> 0x17f6b00
<Address name="window_x">0xe640dc</Address>0xe32798 01
<Address name="window_y">0xe921b0</Address>0xe60838 01
<Address name="window_z">0xe9218c</Address>0xe60814 01
<Address name="cursor_xyz">0xae92c8</Address>0xae82cc 01
add this before </entry> in the memory.xml
this will bring following back.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 20, 2010, 11:09:00 am
Post by: jonask84 on May 20, 2010, 11:39:49 am
Post by: Ivar360 on May 20, 2010, 04:44:55 pm
right, to get stonesense to work with DF version 0.31.04, just add this just before the linux section of the memory.xml:Code: [Select]<Entry version="v0.31.04" os="windows" id="0.31.04" base="0.31.03" rebase="0x0">
<String name="md5">655a895c5b90d15eb9bb71e28c6c62e5</String>
<HexValue name="pe_timestamp">0x4bf014fa</HexValue>
<Address name="creature_vector">0x167870C</Address>
<Address name="dwarf_race_index">0x1471FBC</Address>
<Address name="dwarf_civ_id">0x1471FB0</Address>
<Address name="mat_inorganics">0x16BD0B0</Address>
<Address name="mat_other">0x16C6478</Address>
<Address name="mat_organics_all">0x16BD0C8</Address>
<Address name="mat_organics_plants">0x16bd0e0</Address>
<Address name="mat_organics_trees">0x16bd110</Address>
<Address name="creature_type_vector">0x16BD204</Address>
<Address name="mat_stuff">0x16C6478</Address>
<Address name="language_vector">0x16BD384</Address>
<Address name="translation_vector">0x16BD3B4</Address>
<Address name="descriptor_colors_vector">0x16C5ACC</Address>
<Address name="descriptor_vectors_start">0x16C5AE4</Address>
<Address name="descriptor_all_colors">0x16C5AFC</Address>
<Address name="current_tick">0xE78780</Address>
<Address name="current_year">0xEAA878</Address>
<Address name="map_data">0x016BAAC4</Address>
<Address name="x_count_block">0x016BAAE4</Address>
<Address name="y_count_block">0x016BAAE8</Address>
<Address name="z_count_block">0x016BAAEC</Address>
<Address name="x_count">0x016BAAF0</Address>
<Address name="y_count">0x016BAAF4</Address>
<Address name="z_count">0x016BAAF8</Address>
<Address name="region_x">0x016BAAFC</Address>
<Address name="region_y">0x016BAB00</Address>
<Address name="region_z">0x016BAB04</Address>
<Address name="world_size_x">0x16BC180</Address>
<Address name="world_size_y">0x16BC182</Address>
<Address name="geoblock_vector">0x16BC8D8</Address>
<Address name="ptr2_region_array">0x16BC920</Address>
<Address name="global_feature_vector">0x16BC8A8</Address>
<Address name="local_feature_start_ptr">0x16BC974</Address>
<Address name="construction_vector">0x1664CD8</Address>
<Address name="vegetation_vector">0x1679D54</Address>
<Address name="buildings_vector">0x16793e8</Address>
<Address name="items_vector">0x1678800</Address>
<Offset name="item_type_accessor">0x0</Offset> Why do i have to redefine this ???
</Entry>
Is this gonna work with windows? or am I an idiot for even asking? :)
Post by: Mir on May 20, 2010, 07:41:14 pm
It should...
However I'm running it under windows 7 with DF 31.04, and it says it's loading... and then shows me a black screen and freezes solid.
I'm working on fixing it, but I'm not really sure what's going on.
Post by: bartavelle on May 21, 2010, 12:20:38 am
However I'm running it under windows 7 with DF 31.04, and it says it's loading... and then shows me a black screen and freezes solid.
I'm working on fixing it, but I'm not really sure what's going on.
Look at the previous Japa post, with the missing offsets.
Post by: Petr Ga on May 21, 2010, 02:55:18 am
However I'm running it under windows 7 with DF 31.04, and it says it's loading... and then shows me a black screen and freezes solid.
I'm working on fixing it, but I'm not really sure what's going on.
Look at the previous Japa post, with the missing offsets.
try this build http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229 and let me know if it addresses your problem
Post by: Ivar360 on May 21, 2010, 05:50:36 am
try this build http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229 and let me know if it addresses your problem
This does the trick for me :) running it in windows xp compatibility as admin in vista. THX
Post by: James.Denholm on May 21, 2010, 06:12:01 am
Believe me, I understand that there are people out there with rigs like the LHC, but for those who don't, all of this extra weight will more or less render (no pun intended) Stonesense a pause-run-see-whatever-exit-go-back-to-playing kinda visualiser.
Post by: Ivar360 on May 21, 2010, 07:50:03 am
All this talk of sub-sprites and what not is great - And believe me, I mean that, it is supremely awesome, and I can't wait to see this in action - But it poises the question: Is there going to be a "lite" executable of Stonesense, or a way to turn all this off? I only ask because, for some people (read: people without the money to afford good hardware), all of these features will melt their graphic cards (read: Intel chipsets). Well, maybe not melt, but it won't be going fast, and I think that's diverging from what Stonesense was intended to be - a real-time visualiser.
Believe me, I understand that there are people out there with rigs like the LHC, but for those who don't, all of this extra weight will more or less render (no pun intended) Stonesense a pause-run-see-whatever-exit-go-back-to-playing kinda visualiser.
I agree, as I too am cursed with the fantastic Intel card. But to add, I already use this an a "pause-run-see-whatever-exit-go-back-to-playing" kinda visualiser. It takes my framerate from 70 to 30. Still not bad, but my laptop screams when I try to run it unpaused :)
Post by: Rose on May 22, 2010, 07:12:21 am
the main problem with the previous version was that OpenGL was forced, which worked crap on many intel cards.
the next one will use directx by default, with an option to use either OpenGL or software, depending. (OpenGL is faster if you have a good card, and software will always work)
Post by: Mir on May 22, 2010, 12:51:25 pm
Using DF 31.04...
Using Stonesense (Unofficial build 810, which includes the memory vector stuff.)
I've made some changed to the init file... mostly just resolution stuff, and I've included Mayday's tileset.
Not sure what else might be relevant at this point.
Anyway I start up DF 31.04, load my fortress, and pause it...
Then I load up Stonesense as normal, and I get the following...
"Starting up..."
"Connecting to DF..."
Then I get a completely black screen.
I've let it run for five minutes, and nothing changes.
I can't use ESC to close the program, or anything like that.
I've tried hitting page up hundreds of times to see if it's just deep underground, but that doesn't do anything either.
I can't even close it with the "X"... I have to end the process.
It just slowly uses more and more memory.
Running Stonesense as an Administrator doesn't make a difference.
Running DF as an Administrator doesn't make a difference.
Running both as an Administrator doesn't make a difference.
Running either or both in XP SP3 Compatibility mode doesn't make a difference.
Edit: Added a few more details.
Post by: Ivar360 on May 22, 2010, 04:02:43 pm
Well, I have an Intel onboard card, and use it for testing, but it's a good Intel card (945 GZ)
If that one's good, mine should be too, (965 express), but I find I can't play games less than 10 years old :)
Post by: Neyvn on May 22, 2010, 08:37:36 pm
Post by: Retro on May 22, 2010, 09:01:35 pm
Ok I started Stonesense 10mins ago... Its still connecting to DF 0.31.04, is it spos to be this slow???
Stonesense currently doesn't work with 31.04, sorry. However, I think the saves are compatible with older versions; you could try copying the save to 03 for screenshot purposes.
Ed- Nah, sorry. Just tried it myself and 03 refused to recognize my 04 save.
Post by: Neyvn on May 22, 2010, 09:07:51 pm
Cheers mate, thought that might have been the case...Ok I started Stonesense 10mins ago... Its still connecting to DF 0.31.04, is it spos to be this slow???
Stonesense currently doesn't work with 31.04, sorry. However, I think the saves are compatible with older versions; you could try copying the save to 03 for screenshot purposes.
Ed- Nah, sorry. Just tried it myself and 03 refused to recognize my 04 save.
Post by: Greiger on May 22, 2010, 09:10:53 pm
I think there's a oddity with it though. From what I'm hearing in other threads (like the therapist one) it appears .04 has different memory offsets depending on which version you have of it. I think it's a difference with the merge version and the legacy versions. The offsets in this thread seem to work for me using the merge version, but probably don't work with legacy.
It's also a bit intimidating to add the memory info to the xml if you haven't done anything like that before. I managed to screw it up myself by not paying as much attention as I should have. This constant connecting to DF stuff sounds exactly what my copy did for awhile when I stuck the memory lines in the wrong spot.
P.S. And yea, .04 seems to be able to load a .03 save but .03 seems unable to load .04.
Post by: Retro on May 22, 2010, 09:32:11 pm
Post by: Neyvn on May 22, 2010, 10:05:56 pm
Post by: MP2E on May 22, 2010, 11:14:09 pm
Code: [Select]
In file included from /home/cray/stonesense/BlockCondition.h:2:0,
from /home/cray/stonesense/BlockCondition.cpp:1:
/home/cray/stonesense/common.h:34:27: fatal error: modules/world.h: No such file or directoryIn file included from /home/cray/stonesense/Block.h:3:0,
from /home/cray/stonesense/Block.cpp:1:
/home/cray/stonesense/common.h:34:27: fatal error: modules/world.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
compilation terminated.
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o] Error 1
make[2]: *** Waiting for unfinished jobs....
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/BlockCondition.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2Arch Linux x64, installed allegro5 library(which is the latest! I checked :P) and using cmake .. && make in the build directory.Figured I'd give it another shot, seeing as soon(hopefully) stable and nice Linux builds will be out again :)
Post by: Petr Ga on May 24, 2010, 03:02:48 am
Well I tried to use the one that was linked at the top of the page, but it didn't work...
try this http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229
Post by: DeWorD on May 25, 2010, 10:14:55 am
Then Stonesense crashes.
Stonesense.txt file says:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/stonesense1.jpg/ (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/stonesense1.jpg/) [^] <--- picture.
u can see from a picture that light blue screen at Stonesence and text is lacking.
my specs are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Granite on May 25, 2010, 12:20:07 pm
Well I tried to use the one that was linked at the top of the page, but it didn't work...
try this http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229
Is this release supposed to work with "DF 31.04 win" version? Because it doesn't work, and keeps saying "Connecting to DF".
Post by: Dr. Melon on May 25, 2010, 01:34:21 pm
However I'm running it under windows 7 with DF 31.04, and it says it's loading... and then shows me a black screen and freezes solid.
I'm working on fixing it, but I'm not really sure what's going on.
Look at the previous Japa post, with the missing offsets.
try this build http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229 and let me know if it addresses your problem
Works for me with Windows 7 x64.
Post by: DeWorD on May 25, 2010, 02:07:38 pm
Then Stonesense crashes.
Stonesense.txt file says:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
http://img17.imageshack.us/i/stonesense1.jpg/ (http://img17.imageshack.us/i/stonesense1.jpg/) [^] <--- picture.
u can see from a picture that light blue screen at Stonesence and text is lacking.
my specs are:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on May 25, 2010, 03:08:02 pm
Can't init map, seems to just mean that it can't find any map data. So load up a fortress or something, then try.
Post by: DeWorD on May 25, 2010, 03:37:18 pm
Post by: Ratbert_CP on May 25, 2010, 03:42:21 pm
The site picker is *NOT* a fortress. Embark, *then* try Stonesense.
Post by: peterix on May 25, 2010, 03:46:00 pm
You. Must. Have. A. Fortress. Loaded.It still shouldn't crash. But yeah - having a fortress loaded is required for stonesense to work.
The site picker is *NOT* a fortress. Embark, *then* try Stonesense.
Post by: DeWorD on May 25, 2010, 07:55:04 pm
Post by: Greiger on May 25, 2010, 11:18:46 pm
Anyway just in-case you aren't I'll be more specific. You need to have a save loaded. (which is often referred to as a fortress within dwarf fortress because that is what it is) Either a dwarf mode save or adventure mode save.
If you don't know what I'm talking about with a save make your dwarf fortress game look something like this.
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/screens/dwf5.png
You have to be ingame to the point where you are ordering your dwarves around from the local map. Not the intro, not the main menu, not the world map. Ingame, where individual dwarves are represented by either a little smiley, or a small tile that looks like a dwarf.
Stonesense can't read the menu. Stonesense cannot read the intro, stonesense even cannot read the worldmap (although that would be awesome) all it can read is an embark site.
Post by: LegitMacgyver on May 26, 2010, 07:21:17 am
Dwarf Fortress is loaded at that second picture. There's just game running. When i click Stonesense. it crashes.
This has to be trolling, there is no other possibility.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on May 26, 2010, 08:35:55 am
check if that happens, the fix for me was to go into the stonesense init and turn off opengl.
Post by: DeWorD on May 26, 2010, 12:20:31 pm
im just kinda newbie with these and i didn't know when stonesense must launch.
sorry my bad english.
Post by: jonask84 on May 27, 2010, 05:01:49 am
this isn't troll...im never played those text games itc.
im just kinda newbie with these and i didn't know when stonesense must launch.
sorry my bad english.
You're new at Dwarf Fortress? It can be a really fun game, I hope you like it :)
Did you get stonesense working as it should?
Post by: Astarti on May 27, 2010, 01:38:08 pm
what should i do now? -> http://img337.imageshack.us/i/stonesense2.jpg/ (http://img337.imageshack.us/i/stonesense2.jpg/) now DF is up and running. When i click Stonesense thing. it crashes.
I had the same problem of falls Stonesense. Downloaded from stonesense from
Code: [Select]
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229and now everything works
Post by: kultrva on May 27, 2010, 08:45:26 pm
I copied my Stonesense folder into my DF folder, started a game in DF, and then opened Stonesense. I pressed F9 and it said 'no map loaded'. I pressed R and it briefly said "connecting to DF..." and Stonesense then crashed. This happens every time.
I am running Dwarf Fortress 0.31.03 and Stonesense 2.0.
Am I doing anything wrong, and if so how do I get this to work?
Thanks.
Post by: Rose on May 28, 2010, 01:18:57 am
2: post the stonesense.log
Post by: Dr. Melon on May 28, 2010, 04:06:17 am
Post by: Djohaal on May 28, 2010, 08:39:48 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(yes I know, nice landmark, an admantine spire :D )
Post by: Dark_Tundra on May 29, 2010, 01:07:57 am
(A little late I know but...)4) Tile Shadows: A bit tricky, but Lit vs. Unlit tiles would be a nice thing to represent. It becomes tricky with the vertical facings, though, as they should draw their Lit/Unlitness from the square they face, or all vertical faces will be shadowed.yes, this is tricky. another problem is that outside walls would still be lit on the inside.
What if you checked the inside/outside status of the two orthogonally placed tiles closest to the camera and if one is lit assume the wall to be lit?
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/lightdark.png)
Walls are already inside, so I think this makes sense...
Post by: Iituem on May 30, 2010, 06:33:48 am
Post by: abcd_z on May 30, 2010, 04:33:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Would it be possible to program stonesense to rotate the view on a specific key combination? Say, Ctrl-arrow?
It seems like it you would only need to replace the tiles that aren't uniform across views (pull up the left view of a tile instead of the front view, for instance), and change either the order the tiles are laid out in, or the coordinates of the tiles.
Is that something that could feasibly be done?
Post by: peterix on May 30, 2010, 05:24:43 pm
I was looking at a stonesense pic of some underground cavernsHave you tried the 'enter' key? I'm sure it does something like that :)
IMAGE and realized that the vertical pillars obscure the tiles behind them.
Would it be possible to program stonesense to rotate the view on a specific key combination? Say, Ctrl-arrow?
It seems like it you would only need to replace the tiles that aren't uniform across views (pull up the left view of a tile instead of the front view, for instance), and change either the order the tiles are laid out in, or the coordinates of the tiles.
Is that something that could feasibly be done?
Post by: abcd_z on May 31, 2010, 12:24:08 am
...
Never before have I been so glad for the anonymity of the internet. :-[
Post by: Mir on June 01, 2010, 07:18:09 pm
For those getting the empty black screen which freezes up on the 3.01.04 version, you may have a problem with OpenGL. Go to the INIT file and try resetting it to 'DIRECTX' instead. This requires you to have the unofficial (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2229) update, though.
Oh man, this totally worked. I love you Iituem! And I love StoneSense!
Post by: jonask84 on June 02, 2010, 05:24:46 am
We're getting ready to launch the RC2 version, which will have some minor new features, but mainly try to iron out bugs and add .04 support. officially, anyway ;)
I know most of you who follow this post probably have been playing with Petr Ga's nightly build thing, so if there are any suggestions for tweak we're listening :) Keep in mind we only have time for minor changes at this point tho :)
Post by: anacrucis on June 04, 2010, 07:43:08 am
FN+F4 merely dims my screen and FN+0p;/ does nothing for me. The Inspiron models seems to simply lack numpads.
Just butting in here, found this post by mistake searching for something else... but I've got a dell Inspiron 700m and I resorted to buying an el-cheapo USB numeric keypad. It works great for DF, though I haven't messed around much with StoneSense (the vintage 2005 2GHz single core processor and 1.25 GB RAM just can't seem to cope with running DF *and* SS).
Post by: Beeskee on June 05, 2010, 08:03:48 pm
I know most of you who follow this post probably have been playing with Petr Ga's nightly build thing
Unfortunately not me, the link isn't on http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/ and that was where I was checking :(
Post by: Corbald on June 05, 2010, 11:59:23 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on June 06, 2010, 03:09:34 am
Post by: Corbald on June 06, 2010, 01:21:21 pm
Post by: jonask84 on June 06, 2010, 05:22:05 pm
Post by: peterix on June 06, 2010, 07:00:48 pm
Grab the current .xml: http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/9d143d8afb07f7d4fffa895829621b5ab97de791/output/Memory.xml (http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/9d143d8afb07f7d4fffa895829621b5ab97de791/output/Memory.xml)
Post by: jonask84 on June 06, 2010, 07:10:55 pm
I'm pretty pooped and I'm gonna turn in now, but will send RC2 out tomorrow :)
For those who can't wait, grab peterix' memory.xml and the unofficial nightly and get crackin 8)
@Beeskee: That's good actually, IMO. I can't really guarantee anything on nightly builds, so I don't like the idea of them spreading too much. I've been testing RC2 all day today, and it looks to run well (of course, my laptop is a small sample size). I think we're about ready tho :)
Post by: Retro on June 06, 2010, 09:23:04 pm
I'm pretty pooped and I'm gonna turn in now, but will send RC2 out tomorrow :)
Exciting! Thanks to all involved with dfhack and Stonesense for the hard work on this.
Post by: jonask84 on June 07, 2010, 06:53:50 am
How about a download link? (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_RC2.rar)
Here's the summarized changelog:
* DF31.01 to 05 compatible
* Now supports the Object Testing Arena
* Dwarf and animal skin/hair colors
* Constructions reflect if they're built with rough stone or blocks
* Optional Day/Night mode
* Now shows dwarven chæracters prøperly (thanks Japa)
* Added beefmoo's domestic animals
* DirectX, OpenGL or software renderding supported
* Full-map screenshot now working properly, and fast (takes about a minute compared to 3 hours)
A few picture highlights
Colorized sprites for hair/skin/fur/whatever colors:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Constructions now differ if they're built from raw stone or from blocks:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on June 07, 2010, 07:04:51 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 07, 2010, 07:08:54 am
(A little late I know but...)4) Tile Shadows: A bit tricky, but Lit vs. Unlit tiles would be a nice thing to represent. It becomes tricky with the vertical facings, though, as they should draw their Lit/Unlitness from the square they face, or all vertical faces will be shadowed.yes, this is tricky. another problem is that outside walls would still be lit on the inside.
What if you checked the inside/outside status of the two orthogonally placed tiles closest to the camera and if one is lit assume the wall to be lit?
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/lightdark.png)
Walls are already inside, so I think this makes sense...
I take it this is infeasable?
Post by: Rose on June 07, 2010, 07:11:50 am
Post by: Greiger on June 07, 2010, 01:23:42 pm
Oh...those are my dogs.
That's actually pretty cool, I was actually considering suggesting the implementation of something like that into stonesense back when 2010 first came out, but figured it would be completely impossible from a coding and information retrieving standpoint.
Happy to see I was wrong. :D Any chance of equipment layering with proper equipment colors soon? (or how to do it if it's possible currently) Like being able to tell A swordsdwarf with an adamantine sword and a breastplate from a swordsdwarf with a copper sword and an artifact leather boot?
Post by: MaDeR Levap on June 07, 2010, 04:33:21 pm
Post by: Moontayle on June 07, 2010, 07:35:39 pm
Oh my god! my fortress is under attack by small doglike technicolor abominations!
Oh...those are my dogs.
That's actually pretty cool, I was actually considering suggesting the implementation of something like that into stonesense back when 2010 first came out, but figured it would be completely impossible from a coding and information retrieving standpoint.
Happy to see I was wrong. :D Any chance of equipment layering with proper equipment colors soon? (or how to do it if it's possible currently) Like being able to tell A swordsdwarf with an adamantine sword and a breastplate from a swordsdwarf with a copper sword and an artifact leather boot?
I used an unofficial build to take screenshots of my 31.04 fort for the DFM3 contest. Some of the animals look like they had a bad run-in with a berzerk hairstylist.
Post by: FallingWhale on June 07, 2010, 09:42:28 pm
I want to use it with Slate
Post by: Greiger on June 07, 2010, 10:37:52 pm
I do appear to have discovered some odd behavior though. Different sprites for different castes no longer seems to function, or at least the method to identify them in the init has changed. No matter what individual in my fortress I mouseover, if always identifies them as caste 1 or 2, and seems to completely ignore all others. I copied my sprites and init directly over from the last version, which worked fine, so I don't think there are any problems there. And using the key to look through all the spritesheets, stonesense seems to locate them all just fine.
Here's a screencap if it helps understand what I'm talking about.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Naturally if the feature was just decided to be more trouble than it's worth and was removed, I understand. Just seems unintentional since there was no mention of it being removed. And figured I would throw out a heads up. Since I seem to be the only one who actually uses that function currently, I was thinking if it is a mistake it could go unnoticed for quite some time if I don't mention it. :)
Post by: FallingWhale on June 07, 2010, 11:01:26 pm
Post by: Greiger on June 07, 2010, 11:08:21 pm
I use an ancient copy of WinRAR that is free (just asks me nicely to buy it every time I open it up but doesn't seem to have any reduced functionality. Actually paying for it is on my list of things to do once I'm not living paycheck to paycheck.) I don't know if you can still get Winrar free or if there are any better or fully legitimate free .rar opening programs out there. I think somebody else will need to help with that. At any rate, .rar seems as common if not more common than .zip. So I imagine yer going to need to have a program to open .rar files eventually anyway.
Post by: Ipsnicerous on June 07, 2010, 11:17:01 pm
I am experiencing difficulties getting Stonesense to work. The first time I ran it worked like a charm, no issues. Now, the second time I run it, it immediately loads the last view of the fortress that I had open and no longer reads from DF, it seems (meaning it won't update or follow the camera). I have two regions on this DF install and changed the DF display window size between last time running it and this time. Could either of these have something to do with it?
Post by: peterix on June 07, 2010, 11:35:11 pm
I do appear to have discovered some odd behavior though. Different sprites for different castes no longer seems to function, or at least the method to identify them in the init has changed. No matter what individual in my fortress I mouseover, if always identifies them as caste 1 or 2, and seems to completely ignore all others. I copied my sprites and init directly over from the last version, which worked fine, so I don't think there are any problems there. And using the key to look through all the spritesheets, stonesense seems to locate them all just fine.Hmm. There are actually two offsets, right next to each other. Caste and sex. Most of the time, they are the same. I guess something must have changed in the creature offsets again...
Post by: Greiger on June 07, 2010, 11:55:04 pm
Post by: jonask84 on June 08, 2010, 11:16:17 am
Sorry if this is misplaced, but is there any kind of troubleshooting/error thread other than this?
I am experiencing difficulties getting Stonesense to work. The first time I ran it worked like a charm, no issues. Now, the second time I run it, it immediately loads the last view of the fortress that I had open and no longer reads from DF, it seems (meaning it won't update or follow the camera). I have two regions on this DF install and changed the DF display window size between last time running it and this time. Could either of these have something to do with it?
That is really, really weird. It just runs as normal but shows a different version of DF than the one you're running?
It's obvious, but have you checked you only have one DF instance running?
Also, what happens if you reboot?
So what do I run it as, in, whatever. It's just an unmarked .rarYou just unrar it (using for instance 7zip (http://www.7-zip.org/download.html)which is free and open source) and run Stonesense.exe. Good luck :)
Post by: Haus Party on June 08, 2010, 12:29:14 pm
Post by: Maxxeh on June 08, 2010, 06:28:51 pm
Buying a Mac makes Mac users sad. :(
Fix'd
Post by: Greiger on June 08, 2010, 06:32:14 pm
Post by: Retro on June 08, 2010, 06:42:12 pm
Post by: FallingWhale on June 08, 2010, 10:24:48 pm
I tried reinstalling
Post by: Greiger on June 08, 2010, 11:47:30 pm
If that's not the problem (and I'm not even sure Vista putting it's nose where it doesn't belong would cause that error anyway) someone else may have more insight. I have never seen that error message before.
Post by: Rose on June 09, 2010, 12:08:22 am
Post by: Woof on June 09, 2010, 05:05:07 am
Are you using vista? I should have mentioned that my documents or documents and settings or Program Files are places you do not want to put it in vista. Windows treats stuff in those folders special. And that special treatment interferes in a bad way with every single program that didn't come with the computer I try to run there. And a couple that did come with the computer.
If that's not the problem (and I'm not even sure Vista putting it's nose where it doesn't belong would cause that error anyway) someone else may have more insight. I have never seen that error message before.
Disable UAC completely, it makes vista feel a lot less special :)
Post by: buckets on June 09, 2010, 06:45:08 am
Post by: jonask84 on June 09, 2010, 09:43:57 am
Just running in to say that Stonesence is fantastic. I works wonderfully for me, and it looks brilliant.
Phew :) That's great to hear heh
I've seen the installation thing before, on another project, that time it was because dll's had to be registered to the system. It might be the local security settings?
Post by: belannaer on June 09, 2010, 10:47:59 am
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 10, 2010, 12:18:10 am
Post by: jonask84 on June 10, 2010, 02:28:15 am
Does the new Slate work with older versions of DF for you, or is it just .05?
Also, do the dfHack tools work at all? I would have linked them, but the dfHack thread was deleted so I'm a little lost.
Post by: Retro on June 10, 2010, 02:38:43 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 10, 2010, 02:41:28 am
Post by: Retro on June 10, 2010, 02:42:20 am
Post by: Rose on June 10, 2010, 03:45:03 am
ahoy! use this file to connect with DF 0.31.06
Post by: peterix on June 10, 2010, 04:27:30 am
Memory.xml (http://drop.io/japaysh/asset/memory-xml)The SDL version to be specific.
ahoy! use this file to connect with DF 0.31.06
Post by: Robsoie on June 10, 2010, 04:57:14 am
window XP
Starting the program, press F9 as requested and "Connecting to DF" is up for a second or two, then disappear and the stonesense window stay entirely black, the program seems frozen, can only kill it with CTRL+ALT+DEL
never tried Stonesense with any DF2010 version, but when i was playing with 40dx the corresponding versions of Stonesense worked for me.
Post by: Rose on June 10, 2010, 05:37:27 am
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 10, 2010, 09:23:46 am
(http://rpgforum.cz/temp/BasicInterface-Stonesense.png)
Just a fun mockup, more info about the interface here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34949.msg1316771#msg1316771). Sorry for this little advertisement.
Post by: Clockworkpersona on June 10, 2010, 11:13:54 am
A man can dream :)
(http://rpgforum.cz/temp/BasicInterface-Stonesense.png)
Just a fun mockup, more info about the interface here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34949.msg1316771#msg1316771). Sorry for this little advertisement.
This is amazing! Is this really so hard to do right now? I mean we already have utilities like DFmanager, that communicate with the game.
Post by: Solifuge on June 10, 2010, 11:54:01 am
1) Many of the menus can't be read or interpreted, at least not without an extensive expansion of DFhack. Thus, much of the game information can't be reported.
2) Tarn has expressed specific reservations about this sort of thing, and for good reason. We can't match pace with his development, and it takes a significant ammount of time and effort to update DFHack, and Stonesense, for each new release. A lot of things change behind the scenes with each release.
3) Assuming that this hypothetical GUI would be pretty, shiney, and more user-friendly, Players may come to regard it as the "proper" interface for DF, which it is not. This could potentially harm Tarn's development process, and/or his drive to work on things... especially since he doesn't want this to evolve into anything resembling a collaboration. Personally, I can understand his perspective, and really don't want that to happen, because he's putting a lot into this.
It's been discussed before. I think that theoretically it would be a nice idea, but unless Tarn were to give an explicit "Go Ahead," I would personally not feel comfortable having my work used in such a program.
--
EDIT: Speaking of my work, guys... ermmm... would Japa or Jonas or Peter or whoever care to direct me toward what graphical assets y'all need? I think I've sabatacled long enough, and I seem to have lost my old list. >.<;
Post by: Robsoie on June 10, 2010, 02:55:13 pm
what does your stonesense.log say? have you tried other graphics modes? what videocard do you have?
Unfortunately the log is not really going into detail (as i said, it does not crash maybe that's why the log does not really go into details, it seems just frozen into a black screen after the Connecting to DF part).
Quote
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
But i think it may be the OpenGL version on this new Stonesense evolution, because the card on that system is a g31/g33 (gma 3100) on a XP SP3, and is running opengl version 1.4 , there is no OpenGL 2.0 support in any Intel drivers for that card, apparently Intel forgot that OpenGL was an ever evoluting API and did not stop at version 1.4.
This seems confirmed by a change to DirectX in the init.txt, that suddenly made Stonesense to work, thanks for pointing to me the render change hint.
Post by: belannaer on June 10, 2010, 04:39:40 pm
what does your stonesense.log say? have you tried other graphics modes? what videocard do you have?
Unfortunately the log is not really going into detail (as i said, it does not crash maybe that's why the log does not really go into details, it seems just frozen into a black screen after the Connecting to DF part).QuoteStonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
Mine actually totally crashes and doesn't just freeze up and the log still says the same thing only.
Quote
But i think it may be the OpenGL version on this new Stonesense evolution, because the card on that system is a g31/g33 (gma 3100) on a XP SP3, and is running opengl version 1.4 , there is no OpenGL 2.0 support in any Intel drivers for that card, apparently Intel forgot that OpenGL was an ever evoluting API and did not stop at version 1.4.
This seems confirmed by a change to DirectX in the init.txt, that suddenly made Stonesense to work, thanks for pointing to me the render change hint.
I tried change the renders to both DirectX and software and none of them had any help. Still crashes as usual.
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 10, 2010, 04:53:32 pm
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
Post by: Rallion on June 10, 2010, 07:34:38 pm
This is amazing! Is this really so hard to do right now? I mean we already have utilities like DFmanager, that communicate with the game.
I don't think it would be feasible to do it the same way the manager programs do it. The idea of writing to the game's memory, in real time, on such a large scale makes me nervous. Maybe it would be possible to write something that modifies the game by just sending key commands to it. Still, even if you get that working perfectly there are a lot of very important things that have never been done before AFAIK, including simple things like reading where the cursor is, what areas are designated, etc.
I could be wrong, though. I'm no expert.
Post by: Viken on June 10, 2010, 08:12:20 pm
While DFHack and DwarfTheorapist(sp?) work to make the game more playable, they limit the amount of infirmation they subject back into the game itself, more like add-ons that change the playability than something that would totally re-write how the game looks and works.
Personally, I'd love it if DF had a more creative interface (sorry Tarn, I grew up with the PSOne and Nintendo), but it isn't a must sense I've learned over several long game sessions on to control the game with enough out-of-memory commands that I don't even have to think about it anymore.
On an unrelated note, great work on the new releases, guys! *Bows*
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 10, 2010, 08:14:42 pm
Post by: Clockworkpersona on June 11, 2010, 03:40:27 am
I'm sorry if I sound cocky, but I doesnt seem to understand this attitude against the better interface. Come on, we are in the year 2010, i think that graphic design and particulary the design of information has become a such an important thing in gaming and control is one of most crucial things in citybuilding simulations.
I grew up playing pharaoh and ceasar and anyone whos been playing it can say, how much in the terms of immersive gameplay it helps to have a nice looking ui with streamlined information.
I think that DF now spans so many functions that it just cannot be ignored anymore, just remember the "crisis" that happened after the new military system/interface (ive been working as a designer for about 6 years and I never seen such a mess) become relevant, for how many veteran players it was utterly impenetrable.
As to the issue of memory hacking, i dont mean to sound like no heretic, but is it really that big of a deal? You say that "it has nothing to do with making the game more playable in its widest sense." Im sorry, but that seems to be straight wrong with me. I think that one of the strongest points of gaming is control, and i think everyone agrees that the todays system of UI (you have to memorize everything, if you want anything at all, its not intuitive, it doesnt help newcomers to get into the game) isnt the best thing.
Post by: jonask84 on June 11, 2010, 03:55:15 am
@belannaer and Zorrilla: Would it be possible for you to test the dfhack tools (http://github.com/downloads/peterix/dfhack/dfhack-bin-0.4.0.1.zip), to see if dfhack is able to connect to DF.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 11, 2010, 04:09:26 am
StuffThis isn't a game released for the general public, this is an alpha version of a game still in development. A user-friendly UI is not a priority.
Post by: jonask84 on June 11, 2010, 05:41:23 am
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 11, 2010, 08:02:13 am
Post by: Woof on June 11, 2010, 08:13:20 am
stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1317189#msg1317189 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1317189#msg1317189) ?
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 11, 2010, 08:25:07 am
stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...HERP DERP GUYS I DIDN'T READ THE THREAD WHY IT NO WORK DERP
Post by: jonask84 on June 11, 2010, 09:32:41 am
stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...
Not the official release yet. I'm in the process of fixing that tho. But tonight I'm getting hammered, so maybe tomorrow :)
Post by: Solifuge on June 11, 2010, 09:53:58 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 11, 2010, 09:54:53 am
Post by: toryoom on June 11, 2010, 05:08:24 pm
I'm sorry if I sound cocky, but I doesnt seem to understand this attitude against the better interface. Come on, we are in the year 2010, i think that graphic design and particulary the design of information has become a such an important thing in gaming and control is one of most crucial things in citybuilding simulations.
I grew up playing pharaoh and ceasar and anyone whos been playing it can say, how much in the terms of immersive gameplay it helps to have a nice looking ui with streamlined information.
I think that DF now spans so many functions that it just cannot be ignored anymore, just remember the "crisis" that happened after the new military system/interface (ive been working as a designer for about 6 years and I never seen such a mess) become relevant, for how many veteran players it was utterly impenetrable.
As to the issue of memory hacking, i dont mean to sound like no heretic, but is it really that big of a deal? You say that "it has nothing to do with making the game more playable in its widest sense." Im sorry, but that seems to be straight wrong with me. I think that one of the strongest points of gaming is control, and i think everyone agrees that the todays system of UI (you have to memorize everything, if you want anything at all, its not intuitive, it doesnt help newcomers to get into the game) isnt the best thing.
I have to say, I completely agree and I've gotten the glint that a lot of others who love the idea of DF but are frustrated with the system do too. ...The "it's in alpha release" argument doesn't hold water forever either ...not with the game's systems getting more and more complex to justify the need for a cleaner, easier to utilize interface. Plus, while I fully understand WHY it is this way --and respect that reason, overall, this is a game that's going to be in alpha for a hundred years. Let's just not even mince words about that fact. It's more a "project car" for the joy of tinkering rather than a game that has any hope of a fully functional release anytime soon. ...And with every release making all the details of the game more and more detailed, it gets to a point where it seems as if the putting off of at least cursory organization of the interface systems, in favor of all the 'tinkering mathy' stuff, is a personal preference on Toady's part that --while it's his right as the creator of the game, and no one can or should hassle him about it-- isn't as logical as it appeared to be the million years ago he first made the point. ...More than that I will not say, because I realize the expansion of this sort of discussion is not for this thread, but I just wanted to give my direct 2Ē to this post.
Post by: Solifuge on June 11, 2010, 07:51:51 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/SSStatusIcons.png)
Row 1: Happiness Icons (Ecstatic, Happy, Quite Content, Fine, Unhappy, Very Unhappy, and Miserable)
Row 2: Thirsty, Hungry, Stunned, Paralyzed, On Fire, Drowning, and Webbed
Row 3: Minor Injury, Major Injury, Asleep, Unconscious, and Moods (Melencholy, Strange, and Berserk)
I also found a few colorized stone tiles, which are redundant now... but the pallets might be worth borrowing for the automatic tile colorization. Also, there were a few alternate Stone textures I want to touch up prior to posting.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 11, 2010, 11:10:11 pm
Post by: Rose on June 12, 2010, 02:44:30 am
Your opinion is noted, even if this is the wrong place to share it.
what are you talking about?
this is the perfect place to share it.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2010, 02:53:05 am
Sorry, I was reponding to toryoom's rant over the alpha status of DF. Stonesense thread isn't the right place to chat about people being dissatisfied with toady's methods.Your opinion is noted, even if this is the wrong place to share it.
what are you talking about?
this is the perfect place to share it.
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 12, 2010, 04:55:49 am
Post by: Rose on June 12, 2010, 05:49:24 am
While reorganizing my WIP Graphics folder, I found an old concept. The idea, without regard for what is currently possible with DFHack, was for icons that would display over units (perhaps while holding down a button, or whatnot), that described any status effects they might have:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/SSStatusIcons.png)
Row 1: Happiness Icons (Ecstatic, Happy, Quite Content, Fine, Unhappy, Very Unhappy, and Miserable)
Row 2: Thirsty, Hungry, Stunned, Paralyzed, On Fire, Drowning, and Webbed
Row 3: Minor Injury, Major Injury, Asleep, Unconscious, and Moods (Melencholy, Strange, and Berserk)
I also found a few colorized stone tiles, which are redundant now... but the pallets might be worth borrowing for the automatic tile colorization. Also, there were a few alternate Stone textures I want to touch up prior to posting.
like this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can't show all of them yet, but happiness, sleeping, resting, and moods are doable.
unfortunately, I don't actually know which mood is what, so I can't set specific icons for specific moods till I see em, so if anybody has a save with a mood in progress, that'd be great.
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 12, 2010, 06:06:19 am
Oh no, someone on the internet thinks I'm a retard.stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...HERP DERP GUYS I DIDN'T READ THE THREAD WHY IT NO WORK DERP
Anyway, I have been reading the thread since I found out about stonesense, missed the one page with the fix and then wondered why no one was talking about it on the page I read. Admittedly I could have said more than what you pointed out sounded like herp derp xD.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2010, 06:08:06 am
I only said that because it was one page back. :P I don't think you're a retard.Oh no, someone on the internet thinks I'm a retard.stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...HERP DERP GUYS I DIDN'T READ THE THREAD WHY IT NO WORK DERP
Anyway, I have been reading the thread since I found out about stonesense, missed the one page with the fix and then wondered why no one was talking about it on the page I read. Admittedly I could have said more than what you pointed out sounded like herp derp xD.
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 12, 2010, 06:19:24 am
I'm a bit embarrassed I missed it really, I was a bit ticked off that when I redownloaded df.05 to drag and drop my save game to be viewed on stonesense, I couldn't do it, the game kept crashing during worldgen. :S I wasn't in the mood to trawl the thread.I only said that because it was one page back. :P I don't think you're a retard.Oh no, someone on the internet thinks I'm a retard.stonesense doesn't seem to work with .06...HERP DERP GUYS I DIDN'T READ THE THREAD WHY IT NO WORK DERP
Anyway, I have been reading the thread since I found out about stonesense, missed the one page with the fix and then wondered why no one was talking about it on the page I read. Admittedly I could have said more than what you pointed out sounded like herp derp xD.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 12, 2010, 06:24:01 am
A. Grab the legacy version and are astounded that it doesn't work with things like DFG's transparent textures.
B. Hit the thread immediately and ask why it won't work/when will it work.
C. HERP DERP
Really, its fascinating... especially when the answer is usually just a few posts back or can be found on the wiki or by doing a teeny bit of searching.
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 12, 2010, 06:58:47 am
I am also highly amused with each release at how many people either:See, this might be the source of my confusion, why are the legacy versions different, and how?
A. Grab the legacy version and are astounded that it doesn't work with things like DFG's transparent textures.
B. Hit the thread immediately and ask why it won't work/when will it work.
C. HERP DERP
Really, its fascinating... especially when the answer is usually just a few posts back or can be found on the wiki or by doing a teeny bit of searching.
Post by: Deon on June 12, 2010, 07:33:36 am
New 3d versions use a different output with lots of functions and new features and are usually much more productive if you set up them right. Also they use multi-core CPUs to split game and graphical calculations. It's much more complicated though, I just scratched the surface.
Post by: jonask84 on June 12, 2010, 07:36:45 am
EDIT: Speaking of my work, guys... ermmm... would Japa or Jonas or Peter or whoever care to direct me toward what graphical assets y'all need? I think I've sabatacled long enough, and I seem to have lost my old list. >.<;
Hey Solifuge :) Some of the more common animals would be nice. In my current fort i know for sure the hoary marmot and the mountain goats are popping up everywhere as big ?s.
The emotions look really nice btw guys :)
Post by: Khalan on June 12, 2010, 07:58:56 am
I can't show all of them yet, but happiness, sleeping, resting, and moods are doable.I'd love to see this implemented at some point.
Thanks for all the hard work!
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 12, 2010, 08:25:04 am
You can see it for example on the mockup I posted earlier. There are three wrestlers visible.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on June 12, 2010, 08:32:22 am
I'll have a look.
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 12, 2010, 09:02:34 am
Post by: Solifuge on June 12, 2010, 11:47:49 am
While reorganizing my WIP Graphics folder, I found an old concept. The idea, without regard for what is currently possible with DFHack, was for icons that would display over units (perhaps while holding down a button, or whatnot), that described any status effects they might have:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/SSStatusIcons.png)
Row 1: Happiness Icons (Ecstatic, Happy, Quite Content, Fine, Unhappy, Very Unhappy, and Miserable)
Row 2: Thirsty, Hungry, Stunned, Paralyzed, On Fire, Drowning, and Webbed
Row 3: Minor Injury, Major Injury, Asleep, Unconscious, and Moods (Melencholy, Strange, and Berserk)
I also found a few colorized stone tiles, which are redundant now... but the pallets might be worth borrowing for the automatic tile colorization. Also, there were a few alternate Stone textures I want to touch up prior to posting.
like this?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I can't show all of them yet, but happiness, sleeping, resting, and moods are doable.
unfortunately, I don't actually know which mood is what, so I can't set specific icons for specific moods till I see em, so if anybody has a save with a mood in progress, that'd be great.
Very nice, and remarkably fast. Holy carp! I'll see about having some tiles tonight, but my schedule got borked and I'm working all evening. In the meantime: DF Wiki: Status Icons (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Status_icon)
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 12, 2010, 02:22:16 pm
Post by: Greiger on June 12, 2010, 02:29:25 pm
Yep, right here. http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1317189#msg1317189
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 12, 2010, 03:02:15 pm
Post by: MP2E on June 13, 2010, 01:37:21 am
Code: [Select]
[ 68%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/GUI.cpp.o
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp: In function ALLEGRO_COLOR getDayShade(int, int):
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:91:74: error: invalid initialization of non-const reference of type ALLEGRO_COLOR& from an rvalue of type ALLEGRO_COLOR
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:70:15: error: in passing argument 2 of ALLEGRO_COLOR partialBlend(ALLEGRO_COLOR&, ALLEGRO_COLOR&, int)
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:93:69: error: invalid initialization of non-const reference of type ALLEGRO_COLOR& from an rvalue of type ALLEGRO_COLOR
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:70:15: error: in passing argument 1 of ALLEGRO_COLOR partialBlend(ALLEGRO_COLOR&, ALLEGRO_COLOR&, int)
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp: In function void drawDebugCursorAndInfo():
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:335:9: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:340:9: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:345:9: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:350:9: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:384:28: error: itoa was not declared in this scope
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp: In function void loadGraphicsFromDisk():
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:737:35: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:739:37: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:741:33: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:743:41: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp: In function void flushImgFiles():
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:751:35: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp: In function int loadImgFile(char*):
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:816:51: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:819:70: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:847:40: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:856:56: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:885:56: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:915:40: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp: In function void saveMegashot():
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:1015:57: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:1023:32: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/cray/stonesense/GUI.cpp:1027:72: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/GUI.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Post by: Retro on June 13, 2010, 01:56:46 am
Post by: James.Denholm on June 13, 2010, 02:14:59 am
Post by: Rose on June 13, 2010, 02:42:23 am
Post by: Retro on June 13, 2010, 02:45:46 am
I'm not gonna ask how you know that.
v -> i
Though I guess the behaviour doesn't hold up in 0.31 as group training is done, so sparring wrestlers don't throw each others' clothes all around anymore as wrestlers don't spar.
Post by: Cult of the Raven on June 13, 2010, 12:07:11 pm
SDL version of 31.06 (custom tileset and RAW if it makes any difference) and Stonesense RC2 from previous page + Memory.xml from Japa post
window XP
Starting the program, press F9 as requested and "Connecting to DF" is up for a second or two, then disappear and the stonesense window stay entirely black, the program seems frozen, can only kill it with CTRL+ALT+DEL
I'm having this problem as well.
my log file looks like this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: after messing around with the init options a lot, I noticed that switching to directX fixed the problem, seemingly.
nevermind. :p
EDIT 2:
new question - is there a tutorial resource for assembling new workshops? I am using a mod that adds different furnaces, and I'd like to make them look nice, but the building files are confusing.
Post by: Answerer on June 13, 2010, 04:37:41 pm
i run StoneSense, and It DOESNT render CREATURES, but it renders terrain, trees, bushes...
Please, help me.
p.s. Stonesense is amazing! Amazing like DF =)
Post by: Solifuge on June 13, 2010, 04:56:36 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/FortificationsRedux.png)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/FortificationsReduxDemo.png)
Meant to be rendered directionally, so that the channel runs in the direction of intended firing. They also double as Arrow Slits (seen in the tower walls), and channels for fluids (might require some separate sprites, if we can retrieve Current Fluid Depth + Fortification in a given tile). Also, the 4-posts one is a temporary corner Fortification (I can't come up with a good way to represent this, and it looks ugly, so I rendered it with more aesthetically pleasing solid walls).
Post by: peterix on June 13, 2010, 05:00:13 pm
Fortifications Redux:That looks awesome :D
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/FortificationsRedux.png)
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/FortificationsReduxDemo.png)
Meant to be rendered directionally, so that the channel runs in the direction of intended firing. They also double as Arrow Slits (seen in the tower walls), and channels for fluids (might require some separate sprites, if we can retrieve Current Fluid Depth + Fortification in a given tile). Also, the 4-posts one is a temporary corner Fortification (I can't come up with a good way to represent this, and it looks ugly, so I rendered it with more aesthetically pleasing solid walls).
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 13, 2010, 05:41:41 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on June 13, 2010, 05:44:01 pm
Also, the 4-posts one is a temporary corner Fortification (I can't come up with a good way to represent this, and it looks ugly, so I rendered it with more aesthetically pleasing solid walls).
How ugly? Judging from the sprite, I think it'd look okay, but I guess it's hard to tell without a screenshot.
Anyway, the others definitely look great. Kudos.
Post by: Rose on June 14, 2010, 01:49:24 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
looks good.
just remember they should be light gray/white for the coloring to work properly.
Post by: jonask84 on June 14, 2010, 03:34:52 am
new question - is there a tutorial resource for assembling new workshops? I am using a mod that adds different furnaces, and I'd like to make them look nice, but the building files are confusing.
There are a few tutorials over at the DFwiki Stonesense page, but none for buildings yet.
If you look at the XMLs, some of the workshops are crazy complicated (which personally I don't like too much), combining several sprites to from one block of a workshop etc.
But if you look at the Still, I think that one is a bit simpler. It'll give you an idea of how stuff works. And you can always just ask me if there are any questions ;)
Post by: Rose on June 14, 2010, 03:37:18 am
stonesense does not currently support custom workshops.
Post by: jonask84 on June 14, 2010, 03:41:18 am
Edit: Got it, thanks
Post by: Haspen on June 14, 2010, 03:47:44 am
Aren't they like any other modded building?
All modded buildings are actually 'custom workshops'.
Post by: James.Denholm on June 14, 2010, 04:03:51 am
How ugly? Judging from the sprite, I think it'd look okay, but I guess it's hard to tell without a screenshot.
I'm guessing that it looks very much like an open tile, especially when upon the top of a wall.
Post by: Africa on June 14, 2010, 11:04:44 am
The style is a little cartoony for me, not gritty enough, but who am I to complain?
Post by: Solifuge on June 14, 2010, 11:38:49 am
It's merely an idea, and I'd definitely say group discussion about what would best suit DF, and what is possible with Stonesense so far, should come before any plans to implement something like that. Even just a customizable playlist folder might be nice for folks, with some sample tunes thrown in by default, and which would cycle through or play at random. I'm not sure if Software-handled MIDI is considerably lighter-weight than MP3, but performance effects would be another consideration, for certain.
Anyway, what are your thoughts on implementing Music, Ambient Sound, or Sound Effects in Stonesense?
The style is a little cartoony for me, not gritty enough, but who am I to complain?
I rather like seeing cheerful little countryside Fortresses, filled with cartoonish, colorful graphics of dwarves... coupled with endless wars, unknowable horrors from the deeps, mining accidents, medical malpractice, and the stench of rotting dwarf-corpse wafting in from the mass graves right next to the stone stockpiles, which slowly drive the residents into a madness to rival that of the Elder Gods.
It's a beautiful little irony.
Post by: MaDeR Levap on June 14, 2010, 12:06:27 pm
I rather like seeing cheerful little countryside Fortresses, filled with cartoonish, colorful graphics of dwarves... coupled with endless wars, unknowable horrors from the deeps, mining accidents, medical malpractice, and the stench of rotting dwarf-corpse wafting in from the mass graves right next to the stone stockpiles, which slowly drive the residents into a madness to rival that of the Elder Gods.It would be much, much better if stonesense could draw all these stones, equipment, blood, vomit, corpses etc.
It's a beautiful little irony.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 14, 2010, 12:16:15 pm
I rather like seeing cheerful little countryside Fortresses, filled with cartoonish, colorful graphics of dwarves... coupled with endless wars, unknowable horrors from the deeps, mining accidents, medical malpractice, and the stench of rotting dwarf-corpse wafting in from the mass graves right next to the stone stockpiles, which slowly drive the residents into a madness to rival that of the Elder Gods.It would be much, much
It's a beautiful little irony.betterslower if stonesense could draw all these stones, equipment, blood, vomit, corpses etc.
Post by: Solifuge on June 14, 2010, 12:20:29 pm
Also, Thoughts on Sounds/Music in Stonesense. Go!
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 14, 2010, 12:21:41 pm
Both of you are equally true.Thoughts on sounds/music:
Also, Thoughts on Sounds/Music in Stonesense. Go!
I don't care if the game ever includes sounds/music, much less a visualizer.
Post by: jonask84 on June 14, 2010, 01:46:40 pm
On music: I don't think I have the technical skills to merge music into the visualizer in a way that is pleasing. For now I think Winamp will have to do :)
On ambient sounds: More do-able. But a few questions arise: we can't pick up on events (like baby born, cow slaughtered, axe strikes goblin neck, etc) so it would have to be more like the sounds of a stream, or snoring from a sleeping dwarf (IM RAMBLING HERE PEOPLE). Also, the goal must be to make it sound nice, and even if we could play sounds based on stuff like this; where would we get them, and i a quality and from that is pleasing.
Post by: Cruxador on June 15, 2010, 02:11:41 am
Both of you are equally true.I think that sounds and music don't belong in stonesense. There's no reason for them. You don't need auditory feedback, and for music, people will like there own iTunes list better anyway.
Also, Thoughts on Sounds/Music in Stonesense. Go!
Post by: Haspen on June 15, 2010, 03:59:02 am
I highly second those wise words.Both of you are equally true.I think that sounds and music don't belong in stonesense. There's no reason for them. You don't need auditory feedback, and for music, people will like there own iTunes list better anyway.
Also, Thoughts on Sounds/Music in Stonesense. Go!
Post by: Solifuge on June 15, 2010, 10:01:56 am
We often don't notice how it impacts us, since we are so steeped in it these days, but musiic and sound play a huge role in immersion, as large as the visual elements of a game.
The biggest thing against it would be difficulty in coding, the performance hit, and whether it would promise enough interesting sound-related features to make it worth the cost in time and processing.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2010, 10:29:13 am
Post by: Cult of the Raven on June 15, 2010, 11:05:34 am
Post by: jonask84 on June 15, 2010, 11:44:52 am
Post by: kaypy on June 15, 2010, 11:55:27 am
It could be an interesting fork/side project if anyone wants to dabble with it tho :)Been there, done that (although not as part of stonesense).
Read gamelog.txt. Match by regex. Play appropriate sound. About an evenings hacking.
Post by: Solifuge on June 15, 2010, 12:30:12 pm
I would vote no sound, because Stonesense is a visualizing utility, and there's no reason for a visualizer to have sound. I think if you were to have sounds from DF that reacted to the game, you might want to take it up with toady.
Stonesense is like a patch to fill in the gaps in DF's current user-end functionality. Tarn is very busy on the features and gameplay of his project, but many people are kept away from supporting and enjoying it by the seeming crudeness of it. This is the reason people use external utilities, like Stonesense. The question I am posing is this: what other features (in this case, related to sound and music) would people like to see implemented in DF?
If people are opposed to sound because they think it would cheapen their DF experience, that's a great thing to take into consideration. If Japa, Jonask, Peterix, or any other contributors think that the difficulty and/or the limited scope of implementing it would outweigh the benefits, that's a good thing to think twice about. To oppose it because Stonesense is referred to as a Visualizer, or because Tarn hasn't implemented sound, is entirely silly... most everything Stonesense does hasn't been implemented yet.
The point of the Stonesense project, as far as my involvement has been, is to design something that can run paralell to DF, and add generic user-end features that Tarn presently doesn't have the time to play around with or consider. This may include reporting and logging information, viewing multiple layers of construction, or things not capable of being displayed by ASCII characters, and adding other elements that further the enjoyment people get out of the program. In the end, I hope we can provide an example of a display/interface for DF for him to consider when he gets to that step in his design process, and in the meantime improve my own digital art and interface design knowledge.
So yeah, in summary what features (specifically related to sound) do you think would help or harm the enjoyment you get out of DF? Would you benefit from a randomized song playlist, or perhaps one that played music based on what's happening in the game? Would a simple ambient sounds of running water while viewing a river, or a hollow dripping echo as you explored caves in adventure mode make you happy? Would endless "YOU HAVE STRUCK MICROCLINE!" fanfares drive you into a fell mood?
Post by: Cruxador on June 15, 2010, 01:52:42 pm
So yeah, in summary what features (specifically related to sound) do you think would help or harm the enjoyment you get out of DF?Any of the sound would harm enjoyment. But if you want to put in the time to make appropriate sounds and add them, that's your own prerogative. Just as long as we can turn them off.
Post by: Khalan on June 15, 2010, 02:30:00 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 15, 2010, 02:35:19 pm
I think ambient sounds would be great, as an option of course.Options are great, but I still don't think it belongs in Stonesense.
Ultimately it's up to the dev team.
Post by: Haspen on June 15, 2010, 02:46:03 pm
Just get those sounds and make sure there is ON/OFF switch, and everyone will be happy.
Post by: Ironhand on June 15, 2010, 03:10:12 pm
but I'd rather you guys focus on the visual stuff.
I think I'd rather have nice-looking waterfalls before we have nice-sounding ones.
Post by: Footkerchief on June 15, 2010, 03:13:22 pm
I think I'd rather have nice-looking waterfalls before we have nice-sounding ones.
This sums up my perspective. Each of the four visual features in the poll is 10x more appealing to me than sounds.
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 15, 2010, 03:57:02 pm
On a more serious note - I'd probably use ambients and turn music off, but the ambients would have to be cleverly designed as not to become a grinding, repetitive sound. The real question is where to get quality sounds... but if you are a hidden composer, Solifuge, I say by all means, go for it! ;)
This was all considering I could actually run Stonesense and DF at the same time which I can't. Right now Stonesense is just my way of obtaining pretty screenshots.
Post by: Komdour on June 15, 2010, 04:12:00 pm
"Dwarf" is standing on square at (125x, 10y) dwarf moves to (124x, 10y) set animation "walking downward"
Sure the animation would take a step to realize which direction the dwarf is heading, and would be a step behind on a turn, but this with a decent slide transition over the tiles would create a nice walking effect.
I don't mean to make anyone upset, so if I'm out of line, or it realy isn't possible just tell me.
Post by: Cruxador on June 15, 2010, 05:11:31 pm
I'm guessing it has something to do with tile transitions, but one feature I would love to see in Stonesense would be a walking animation. Even though I'm no expert, I would think it could be done easily.My understanding is that while it's theoretically possible, it would take a fuckton of spritework, which we really don't have. Considering how many creatures are purple question marks at the moment, I wouldn't prioritize it.
"Dwarf" is standing on square at (125x, 10y) dwarf moves to (124x, 10y) set animation "walking downward"
Sure the animation would take a step to realize which direction the dwarf is heading, and would be a step behind on a turn, but this with a decent slide transition over the tiles would create a nice walking effect.
I don't mean to make anyone upset, so if I'm out of line, or it realy isn't possible just tell me.
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 15, 2010, 10:11:49 pm
After following the steps in the readme and doing make, i get this huge load of errors which abort my installation. My Allegro dev lib is 4.2, if that may help. Thanks!
http://pastebin.com/rMj9KyQn
Post by: Rakis on June 15, 2010, 10:44:52 pm
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on June 16, 2010, 12:02:49 am
I eagerly decided to see how it looks in stonesense, but to my amazement there seems to be no cloud sprites in stonesense.. and if there is they're disabled by default.
Post by: Rose on June 16, 2010, 04:36:23 am
Hi there. As there is no issue tracking in google code, ill post here. I'm trying to compile under LINUX, Ubuntu 10.04 64bit.
After following the steps in the readme and doing make, i get this huge load of errors which abort my installation. My Allegro dev lib is 4.2, if that may help. Thanks!
http://pastebin.com/rMj9KyQn
there's your problem.
you need 4.9.19
Post by: Solifuge on June 16, 2010, 09:28:01 am
The real question is where to get quality sounds... but if you are a hidden composer, Solifuge, I say by all means, go for it! ;)
Aquiring sounds or music isn't a problem. I've got connections with a professional cinematic score composer (and he's worked with me before), and have played and written music for 8 years now. This is not to say I would trust myself to score DF, as I'm about as mediocre at composition as I am at digital art. I do, however, know how to make sound effects, and also have several open-source SFX libraries.
Anyway, I think it goes without saying that graphics take precedence over any other fluff we conspire to throw in SS. I'm just throwing questions out there to see what sort of interest there is, if any, in non-GFX features. It helps when I'm trying to invision the big picture of what all these things are going into... and in the universe where we were ready to, and Tarn gave us the okay, what sort of features a Stonesense GUI might have.
Post by: MaDeR Levap on June 16, 2010, 10:27:03 am
It would be much, muchI read some community fortress some time ago. This fort was hit hard by FPS monster and next player decided to "dine in hell". Fort surprisingly survived that, but it was A LOT of death, blood and corpses.betterslower if stonesense could draw all these stones, equipment, blood, vomit, corpses etc.
Player posted screenshots of DF and stonesense next to each other. Stonesense did not show flaming, bloody hellhole. It was... so clean (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=55364.msg1237743#msg1237743).
And it is why showing these things would be a lot better.
Post by: Solifuge on June 16, 2010, 12:53:29 pm
1) Displaying Mist Tiles:
Vapor clouds, like steam, miasma, magma-mist, etc, do not display as yet. I recall an earlier branch with particle mist on a beach, but haven't seen it since. Can mists be displayed, and if so are they handled with some simple catch-all that can pull appropriate colors and all that, or must different mist IDs be handled individually? I'd rather like to use textured alpha-tinted cubes if possible rather than particles, but either work.
2) Zooming In/Out:
Being able to change the zoom level to get a closer picture, or zoom out to get a larger overland picture would be very nice for high-res screens that display at finer resolutions, or lower-res screens that. Is it possible with the current engine? If so, what sort of difficulties are in the way of changing the zoom level? Alternatively, there is the potential for doing an alternate Bird's Eye terrain map, using a set of tiny isometric tiles that would display a much larger area?
3) Full Object Display:
Though framerate would be crippled if Stonesense were to render every object in realtime, could we create a static "Full-Rendering" mode that would show every barrel, stone, bloodstain, stockpile, bin, sock, and so on in a static view? This would keep the game smooth for people who are using SS paralell ti DF as an in-game visualizer, while also allowing people who want to export pretty screenshots with all the innumerable details.
4) Better Object Tiles:
Many object tiles, like plants, boulders, or pebbles, define the nature of the tile they're on (plants default the tile to grass [VEGITATION], pebbles to stone, etc.) However, plants grow in the desert, and when they are harvested, the tile below it is discovered to be sand, and not grass. Are plants, boulders, etc. treated as Floors to DF? Can we retrieve tile-type information (Dirt, Sand, Grass) in addition to the object type in the tile? Can we only know that the tile contains a Dead Plant, or can we know that it is a Dead Plant on Sand, or a Live Grass tile? If we can't get more tile details, would it be possible for SS to check, when displaying one of these tiles, for whatever tile type made up the majority of adjacent tiles, and estimate what the floor under it should be? It'd be similar to the Gem/Ore Vein display concept. Objects that override tile type that I know of are Dead Plant, Live Plant, Tree/Cactus/Mushroom, Boulder, Pebbles, and perhaps Webs. There may be more now too. Same concept would work for creating Floor-type Brook Tiles (they could pull from the material of the Tile type they're on top of).
5) Better Auto-Coloring Palette:
I'd rather like to standardize the Autocoloring Palettes used to colorize greyscale tiles, dwarves, etc. Where are these colors defined, and is it possible to redefine them on the user's end, similar to how colors can be redefined in the DF raws? If there's nothing else for it, I could take one of the programmers aside and discuss color theory, and brainstorm some equations for shifting Hue, Value, and Saturation to create a series of 8-color gradients from a palette of single, pre-defined RGB color values.
6) "Oversized" Tiles:
For the present engine, breaking up Ramp gemoetries into a Bottom and Top segments is needlessly complex, and creates uneccesary extra/separate sprites for the engine to display for a given tile object. Allowing for Tiles/Floors that were oversized by, perhaps, 8 transparent pixels on every egde (+16 pixles wide/tall) would both allow for some flexibity in creating non-cubic tiles (ala Beefmo's new stone tiles), single-graphic ramps (rather than splitting them between a "floor" and a "tile".
Post by: Maxxeh on June 16, 2010, 03:14:07 pm
personally I'd turn off everything other than blood, it's weird to see a fortress without blood!
Hopefully with these toggles you can speed the game up somewhat.
Post by: Cult of the Raven on June 16, 2010, 03:27:45 pm
Post by: EBannion on June 16, 2010, 03:49:50 pm
I unzipped the .rar of the most recent Slate version and put the folder on my desktop (which I usually do, to make sure things work before finding them a permanent home) and ran the stonesense.exe, and it immediately tells me that 'Stonesense has stopped working' and does its usual windows 7 'searching for a solution to the problem'.
I have tried putting the Stonesense folder in my DF folder as well, and I have tried running it as administrator. What am I doing wrong? Please help - this is a beautiful tool, and I ca'n't believe I have gone so long without using it! DF is open, and I have my game loaded, and I've tried while it is both paused and unpaused.
Post by: Dante on June 16, 2010, 04:26:42 pm
1) Displaying Mist Tiles:I guess this would be more useful now with forgotten beasts, but still inly important in some fairly specialised settings, e.g. waterfall megaprojects, miasmatic hell fortresses, Everything Is On Fire, etc. Would be nice to have, though, like everything on the list.
2) Zooming In/Out:I mainly use Stonesense for screenshots, so this would be a very useful feature. I'm not sure about the need for an additional bird's eye view. I guess if you wanted a schematic you could annotate in order to show a sequence of events, and didn't want to take a video?
3) Full Object Display:In the light of the usefulness of Stonesense for screen capture, this would make it cross the line between 'very useful' and 'most useful' 3rd party df tool, for me.
export pretty screenshots with all the innumerable details.Yes yes yes yes yes yes.
4) Better Object Tiles:I don't know about any of the technical stuff, of course, but even a surrounds-check hack would be an improvement (assuming it didn't damage fps too much, for those who are using it 'live').
5) Better Auto-Coloring Palette:Interesting, but I'm not personally too fussed about these (assuming I understand the payoffs correctly).
6) "Oversized" Tiles:
In short, a render function (with zooming and full object display) would be first on my wishlist for the next direction in Stonesense dev.
Post by: Jiri Petru on June 16, 2010, 04:34:52 pm
6) "Oversized" Tiles:
For the present engine, breaking up Ramp gemoetries into a Bottom and Top segments is needlessly complex, and creates uneccesary extra/separate sprites for the engine to display for a given tile object. Allowing for Tiles/Floors that were oversized by, perhaps, 8 transparent pixels on every egde (+16 pixles wide/tall) would both allow for some flexibity in creating non-cubic tiles (ala Beefmo's new stone tiles), single-graphic ramps (rather than splitting them between a "floor" and a "tile".
Oh yes, please. I really want oversize trees that look like proper trees, not like dwarf-size bushes. I might even try to draw some :)
Post by: kaypy on June 16, 2010, 08:27:01 pm
3) Full Object Display:Actually, we had this working in the previous version, and you can get full object display with pretty negligible framerate impact. You just need to cache things rather than trying to read everything all the time. The algorithms are all ready in the objects branch. It just needs to be rejigged for the newer DFHacks (assuming object support is back)
Though framerate would be crippled if Stonesense were to render every object in realtime, could we create a static "Full-Rendering" mode that would show every barrel, stone, bloodstain, stockpile, bin, sock, and so on in a static view? This would keep the game smooth for people who are using SS paralell ti DF as an in-game visualizer, while also allowing people who want to export pretty screenshots with all the innumerable details.
Quote
6) "Oversized" Tiles:One thing to bear in mind here is that anything "behind" must be drawn before anything "in front". Across levels, this means anything below must be drawn first. If a sprite crosses levels, then the bottom half must be drawn with the bottom level, and the top must be drawn with the top level. Thus two separate sprites.
For the present engine, breaking up Ramp gemoetries into a Bottom and Top segments is needlessly complex, and creates uneccesary extra/separate sprites for the engine to display for a given tile object. Allowing for Tiles/Floors that were oversized by, perhaps, 8 transparent pixels on every egde (+16 pixles wide/tall) would both allow for some flexibity in creating non-cubic tiles (ala Beefmo's new stone tiles), single-graphic ramps (rather than splitting them between a "floor" and a "tile".
Also, on the topmost level displayed, you really don't want to draw the entire ramp, just the bottom half. The alternative looked bad with extra ramp bits poking up all over the place.
Post by: Djohaal on June 16, 2010, 08:34:35 pm
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 16, 2010, 09:22:45 pm
there's your problem.
you need 4.9.19
Carp! Compiled the latest Allegro 4.9.20 and still getting this error:
Quote
In file included from /opt/stonesense/Block.h:3,
from /opt/stonesense/Block.cpp:1:
/opt/stonesense/common.h:34:27: error: modules/world.h: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Post by: Rose on June 17, 2010, 04:01:29 am
Here's a list of Graphical Display issues, suggestions, concepts, etc. for the consideration of the team, and for open discussion.The previous mist support was in 40d. The guys doing DFHack have not yet figured out how they work in the new DF version yet.
1) Displaying Mist Tiles:
Vapor clouds, like steam, miasma, magma-mist, etc, do not display as yet. I recall an earlier branch with particle mist on a beach, but haven't seen it since. Can mists be displayed, and if so are they handled with some simple catch-all that can pull appropriate colors and all that, or must different mist IDs be handled individually? I'd rather like to use textured alpha-tinted cubes if possible rather than particles, but either work.
2) Zooming In/Out:This is... complicated. it's possible, but would require either a major re-write, or expensive work-arounds.
Being able to change the zoom level to get a closer picture, or zoom out to get a larger overland picture would be very nice for high-res screens that display at finer resolutions, or lower-res screens that. Is it possible with the current engine? If so, what sort of difficulties are in the way of changing the zoom level? Alternatively, there is the potential for doing an alternate Bird's Eye terrain map, using a set of tiny isometric tiles that would display a much larger area?
3) Full Object Display:As soon as DFhack supports items (there's partial support right now, just not sure the status on it) Stonesense will... probably.
Though framerate would be crippled if Stonesense were to render every object in realtime, could we create a static "Full-Rendering" mode that would show every barrel, stone, bloodstain, stockpile, bin, sock, and so on in a static view? This would keep the game smooth for people who are using SS paralell ti DF as an in-game visualizer, while also allowing people who want to export pretty screenshots with all the innumerable details.
4) Better Object Tiles:Currently, Stonesense can read the tiletype, and the material the tile it's made from. the tiletype shows weather it's a boulder, a tree, etc, and the material says weather it's made from peat or sand. Currently, the only way to guess weather there should be grass under it is to make assumptions based on soil type, but that wouldn't work well. The Gem/Ore display works differentley, in that there's actually up to 3 materials being defined per tile. Floor-type brook tiles, on the other hand, are doable.
Many object tiles, like plants, boulders, or pebbles, define the nature of the tile they're on (plants default the tile to grass [VEGITATION], pebbles to stone, etc.) However, plants grow in the desert, and when they are harvested, the tile below it is discovered to be sand, and not grass. Are plants, boulders, etc. treated as Floors to DF? Can we retrieve tile-type information (Dirt, Sand, Grass) in addition to the object type in the tile? Can we only know that the tile contains a Dead Plant, or can we know that it is a Dead Plant on Sand, or a Live Grass tile? If we can't get more tile details, would it be possible for SS to check, when displaying one of these tiles, for whatever tile type made up the majority of adjacent tiles, and estimate what the floor under it should be? It'd be similar to the Gem/Ore Vein display concept. Objects that override tile type that I know of are Dead Plant, Live Plant, Tree/Cactus/Mushroom, Boulder, Pebbles, and perhaps Webs. There may be more now too. Same concept would work for creating Floor-type Brook Tiles (they could pull from the material of the Tile type they're on top of).
5) Better Auto-Coloring Palette:Currently, colors are defined in three places: colors.xml, which defines RGB values for whatever materials are defined, the init.txt, which defines the 16-color pallet that is the same as in DF, and RGB values taken from DF. the 16-color pallet is used for dwarf labor colors, and the RGB values taken from DF are used for skin and hair.
I'd rather like to standardize the Autocoloring Palettes used to colorize greyscale tiles, dwarves, etc. Where are these colors defined, and is it possible to redefine them on the user's end, similar to how colors can be redefined in the DF raws? If there's nothing else for it, I could take one of the programmers aside and discuss color theory, and brainstorm some equations for shifting Hue, Value, and Saturation to create a series of 8-color gradients from a palette of single, pre-defined RGB color values.
All coloring is done via multiply blending at the moment, because any other blending type would require me to write openGL shaders, which I don't know how to do.
6) "Oversized" Tiles:As stated before, splitting up tiles is the only way to ensure that the draw order is correct.
For the present engine, breaking up Ramp gemoetries into a Bottom and Top segments is needlessly complex, and creates uneccesary extra/separate sprites for the engine to display for a given tile object. Allowing for Tiles/Floors that were oversized by, perhaps, 8 transparent pixels on every egde (+16 pixles wide/tall) would both allow for some flexibity in creating non-cubic tiles (ala Beefmo's new stone tiles), single-graphic ramps (rather than splitting them between a "floor" and a "tile".
enlarging tiles by 8 pixels on each side is doable, but can cause draw-order issues.
Stonesense it currently using some allegro version between 4.9.19 and 4.9.20. it would require me to spend a little time with it to get it to work with 4.9.20+
there's your problem.
you need 4.9.19
Carp! Compiled the latest Allegro 4.9.20 and still getting this error:QuoteIn file included from /opt/stonesense/Block.h:3,
from /opt/stonesense/Block.cpp:1:
/opt/stonesense/common.h:34:27: error: modules/world.h: No such file or directory
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
I'll get to it eventually. >_>
[EDIT]
Also, the only thing stopping me from displaying blood right now is lack of blood sprites, and.. hm... actually, I think I have some.
Post by: Andir on June 17, 2010, 06:04:32 am
Also, the only thing stopping me from displaying blood right now is lack of blood sprites, and.. hm... actually, I think I have some....Just happen to have some laying around? :p
Post by: Maxxeh on June 17, 2010, 08:42:00 am
having different blood sprites for each facing, so a 6 tile pool of blood would connect to eachother would look nice. is it possible to have various sprites for each thing?
So a blood smear/splatter could have 10 different sprites for example, so it doesn't get repetitive.
I'm going to assume that having a splatter facing a different direction depending on where it came from is impossible :D
also, blood colour change = vomit ;) lol
Post by: Rose on June 17, 2010, 09:22:29 am
Post by: peterix on June 17, 2010, 10:35:14 am
it's a one-channel bitmap on top of the map blocks... so a set of such bitmaps, one for each type of covering. This can be anything the material system supports - there are a few 'static' types like mud, vomit or cave-in rubble and then there are the crazy new things... we have some little info on blood, because that's pretty common. No guarantees on modded stuff tho. If someone adds a new type of liquid, there's a pretty good chance there won't be a way to detect that easily.
So it's possible to know that there's something like snow, vomit or cat blood on a tile, and the amount of stuff. No idea about colors tho. The 40d compatible versions had a few preset covering types with fixed colors, but now it's all crazy.
Post by: jaked122 on June 17, 2010, 11:15:57 am
Post by: Rose on June 17, 2010, 11:20:31 am
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 17, 2010, 11:23:50 am
Stonesense it currently using some allegro version between 4.9.19 and 4.9.20. it would require me to spend a little time with it to get it to work with 4.9.20+
I'll get to it eventually. >_>
<_<
>_>
I'll try 4.9.19 at home, there is no in-between version.
Post by: Truean on June 17, 2010, 12:17:31 pm
Quote
I love the visualizer, but I don't think that toady wants there to be a remote interface for Dwarf Fortress, that is if I remember DFTalk correctly.
Toady doesn't have a problem with visualizers or remote interface per se. He said three main things:
1.) He doesn't want to spend time on the interface yet, because he'd rather work on game substance.
2.) He doesn't want to integrate outside graphics or interfaces yet because then he'd have to work those systems into compatibility as he updated the game.
3.) He doesn't mind Prefix's DF Hack or customization with "Dragonmen" races, or anything like that.
I think as long as you don't to something nuts like Impaler[PgP] did and try to get people to donate to you rather than Toady, you're ok. I entirely support Toady in his decision not to tolerate this crap by the way; it is his livelihood and intellectual property. After all the Toad is a natural resource.... :)
Finally, Stonesense has gotten some new players for DF and thus some new donors for Toady. It's kind of win-win really.
Post by: Cruxador on June 17, 2010, 02:06:53 pm
An issue Toady has said he had with a true frontend is that people would then feel they needed this external program to play DF, and he'd be obligated to limit the changes in his releases such that he didn't fuck shit up for them. Obviously, we don't want Toady to feel constrained in development, and this leaves us in a rather awkward position if we want to ad a GUI. While anyone playing DF would be entirely fine with Toady invalidating old versions of Stonesense as often has he needs to, if Toady would personally feel constrained, that's a problem. And we can't really rectify it on our end.QuoteI love the visualizer, but I don't think that toady wants there to be a remote interface for Dwarf Fortress, that is if I remember DFTalk correctly.
Toady doesn't have a problem with visualizers or remote interface per se. He said three main things:
1.) He doesn't want to spend time on the interface yet, because he'd rather work on game substance.
2.) He doesn't want to integrate outside graphics or interfaces yet because then he'd have to work those systems into compatibility as he updated the game.
3.) He doesn't mind Prefix's DF Hack or customization with "Dragonmen" races, or anything like that.
I think as long as you don't to something nuts like Impaler[PgP] did and try to get people to donate to you rather than Toady, you're ok. I entirely support Toady in his decision not to tolerate this crap by the way; it is his livelihood and intellectual property. After all the Toad is a natural resource.... :)
Finally, Stonesense has gotten some new players for DF and thus some new donors for Toady. It's kind of win-win really.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 17, 2010, 02:08:06 pm
Post by: Munchkin93 on June 17, 2010, 02:17:00 pm
I have DF 31.5 as well as 31.6 and I have tried it on both: no effect.
I have StoneSense 2.1 I believe or whatever is the latest one on the website.
When I try to connect a black screen with "Connecting to DF" comes up and then nothing changes. It seems likes it's not connecting but I can't figure out why...
PE-LEASE HELP I really want this to work.
Thanks in advance
-Munchkin93
Post by: Solifuge on June 17, 2010, 02:34:26 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 17, 2010, 02:38:30 pm
Discussions and opinions are fine by me. I assure you everyone here will be doing our own thing regardless.Discussions of something they have said will probably not be in stonesense is probably best done in its own thread though, wouldn't you agree?
Post by: Jordix on June 17, 2010, 07:45:29 pm
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5984/tropical.png)
Elephant, wolf, lion, tiger, jaguar, leopard, cheetah (yes, the last three are mostly indistinguishable).
Post by: Munchkin93 on June 17, 2010, 08:31:01 pm
Post by: Maxxeh on June 17, 2010, 10:03:00 pm
maybe a slight colour difference in the last three would benifit? I really like the subtle marking difference though :D
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on June 17, 2010, 10:24:32 pm
Other than that, great work.
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 18, 2010, 12:10:48 am
I'm not sure if anyone has seen my previous post since it is on the page before but: this program is not working for me, please help, read earlier post for details.I did see it but don't know how to help you or I would. Maybe one of the devs can help you out.
Post by: Cavalcadeofcats on June 18, 2010, 12:45:09 am
I'm not sure if anyone has seen my previous post since it is on the page before but: this program is not working for me, please help, read earlier post for details.
Where are you in DF when you try to start Stonesense? You need to be in fortress mode (not in the main menu, not in setup, etc) for it to work.
-
Also, this was a few pages back, but I was just now reading through it: I think that adding ambient sound to Stonesense would be very nice.
Post by: Rose on June 18, 2010, 05:53:18 am
So I made a few sprites to get rid of the question marks roaming my fortress. Nothing fancy, but it's better than nothing. Figured I might as well post them here in case someone else wants to use them.
(http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/5984/tropical.png)
Elephant, wolf, lion, tiger, jaguar, leopard, cheetah (yes, the last three are mostly indistinguishable).
those look good, have you tried making them colored by skin tone? you should give it a shot, I think it would work well. take a look at the cats and dogs that come with RC2 to get an idea how it's done.
regarding blood, I have only this to say:
http://drop.io/japaysh/asset/screenshot7-png (http://drop.io/japaysh/asset/screenshot7-png)
Post by: Maxxeh on June 18, 2010, 06:04:02 am
I think it's too much of a big thing to be made by the stonesense guys when there are more visually oriented things that could be added ad imporoved. Stonesense is a visualiser, and until its PERFECT, I think it should stay that way. Any extra work like sound, will just slow down other important goals. (such as the ones in the poll!)
also, many people only use stonesense as a screenshot-creator, because they cannot run it all the time. in this case, sound would be useless for them.
perhaps a smaller sister app should be created instead, if there appears to be a huge demand for sound?
As I said, I'd love to have ambient sound blending while I play, perhaps with some non invasive UI sounds or alert sounds, it would make the game even more enjoyable, but I don't think the task should be taken up by the stonesense team unless it's in another app, and they already feel like doing it!
Japa, That blood screenshot has me drooling :D I WANT! lol
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 18, 2010, 06:08:25 am
perhaps a smaller sister app should be created instead, if there appears to be a huge demand for sound?Yes, perhaps a sister app or some sort of optional plugin. Many of us do not care about sound, nor want it in a visualizer.
Quote
Japa, That blood screenshot has me drooling :D I WANT! lolAgreed, that is awesome. Did you make a reaction to drop blood all over the place to test it?
Post by: Rose on June 18, 2010, 06:38:43 am
QuoteJapa, That blood screenshot has me drooling :D I WANT! lolAgreed, that is awesome. Did you make a reaction to drop blood all over the place to test it?
actually, no. there's just a bunch of bleeding dwarves going about their work.
Post by: zwei on June 18, 2010, 06:56:18 am
perhaps a smaller sister app should be created instead, if there appears to be a huge demand for sound?
Indeed, that would be splendid thing.
Post by: jonask84 on June 18, 2010, 07:35:09 am
So I made a few sprites ...
Thanks Jordix! Those look great, I think we'll be adding those right away :)
I need HELP! This awesome sounding program is not working!
...
When I try to connect a black screen with "Connecting to DF" comes up and then nothing changes. It seems likes it's not connecting but I can't figure out why...
This keeps showing up as an issue (I need to type up an FAQ), nine out of ten times it's either that DF and Stonesense are not run as Administrator or that your DF version is the legacy version (that is not the SDL version). To test if you can connect to DF at all, try and download the dfHack tools and see if you can use those.
Good luck, we'll do our best to help :)
Post by: Retro on June 18, 2010, 07:48:07 am
Post by: Moontayle on June 18, 2010, 08:25:08 am
Either jaguar or leopard can be all black/dark. I forget. And the cheetah doesn't need spots it can just be light tan color.Well, if you're going for something resembling authenticity, then the truth is with such a small surface to work on, the three are virtually indistinguishable. Jaguars are the bigger of the three with spots that kind of look like this (-), while the Leopard is the smallest with spots that look like this ( ). The Cheetah is sort of in between, a bit leaner and has even spots spread across the body.
Other than that, great work.
My suggestion would be to leave the Jaguar as is, resize the Leopard to be a bit smaller, and then thin out the body of the Cheetah a little bit. Even without the changes it looks great.
WTB: Cougar sprite.
Post by: EBannion on June 18, 2010, 08:26:02 am
A blank window pops up titled 'Allegro' and then seconds after the 'Stonesense has stopped working' window pops up.
Does it have anything to do with where the DF and/or Stonesense folders are located on my computer?
Edit - I am using the most current DF (.6) and I have the SDL version, not legaacy
Post by: Andir on June 18, 2010, 08:36:21 am
All right, so I have a sort-of-odd-but-probably-easy-to-answer question here. Back in, I dunno, early March or so, ice in Stonesense looked like this (http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1984/5ssmgate2.png). But now it looks like this (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2586/fill5.png) - somewhat transparent, a little bluer in colour, and a bit... odd. I really, really miss the old look, and as I'm currently working on a project with a lot of ice I was wondering if I could get help replacing the old ice (I grabbed a copy of Granite, so I have it somewhere in there) with the current ice. I attempted to tackle this myself, and... well, failed miserably. I have no idea how any of this xml stuff works. I'm looking to replace both natural and constructed ice with the old-style ice I should add, as they used to be displayed the same. Some help would be hugely appreciated.Maybe transparency needs an off switch! :p
Post by: zwei on June 18, 2010, 08:52:55 am
WTB: Cougar sprite.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/33aud5y.png)
Post by: Footkerchief on June 18, 2010, 08:58:43 am
http://drop.io/japaysh/asset/screenshot7-png (http://drop.io/japaysh/asset/screenshot7-png)
Nice.
Post by: Moontayle on June 18, 2010, 09:04:18 am
MVPWTB: Cougar sprite.
(http://i45.tinypic.com/33aud5y.png)
Post by: Rose on June 18, 2010, 09:19:40 am
All right, so I have a sort-of-odd-but-probably-easy-to-answer question here. Back in, I dunno, early March or so, ice in Stonesense looked like this (http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1984/5ssmgate2.png). But now it looks like this (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2586/fill5.png) - somewhat transparent, a little bluer in colour, and a bit... odd. I really, really miss the old look, and as I'm currently working on a project with a lot of ice I was wondering if I could get help replacing the old ice (I grabbed a copy of Granite, so I have it somewhere in there) with the current ice. I attempted to tackle this myself, and... well, failed miserably. I have no idea how any of this xml stuff works. I'm looking to replace both natural and constructed ice with the old-style ice I should add, as they used to be displayed the same. Some help would be hugely appreciated.just replace that part of the PNG file with the old sprite.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 18, 2010, 10:26:54 am
All right, so I have a sort-of-odd-but-probably-easy-to-answer question here. Back in, I dunno, early March or so, ice in Stonesense looked like this (http://img706.imageshack.us/img706/1984/5ssmgate2.png). But now it looks like this (http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2586/fill5.png) - somewhat transparent, a little bluer in colour, and a bit... odd. I really, really miss the old look, and as I'm currently working on a project with a lot of ice I was wondering if I could get help replacing the old ice (I grabbed a copy of Granite, so I have it somewhere in there) with the current ice. I attempted to tackle this myself, and... well, failed miserably. I have no idea how any of this xml stuff works. I'm looking to replace both natural and constructed ice with the old-style ice I should add, as they used to be displayed the same. Some help would be hugely appreciated.
These are the files I use, same .xml
Has more solid looking glass and ice, but you can still see through a little.
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/floors.png)
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/blocks.png)
Post by: Jordix on June 18, 2010, 10:46:41 am
Either jaguar or leopard can be all black/dark. I forget. And the cheetah doesn't need spots it can just be light tan color.Well, if you're going for something resembling authenticity, then the truth is with such a small surface to work on, the three are virtually indistinguishable. Jaguars are the bigger of the three with spots that kind of look like this (-), while the Leopard is the smallest with spots that look like this ( ). The Cheetah is sort of in between, a bit leaner and has even spots spread across the body.
Other than that, great work.
My suggestion would be to leave the Jaguar as is, resize the Leopard to be a bit smaller, and then thin out the body of the Cheetah a little bit. Even without the changes it looks great.
WTB: Cougar sprite.
I was thinking cheetahs were smaller, with leopards being the middle ground. Well, the only difference is their size, so it's just a matter of assigning the correct sprite to each one. I also changed the skin tones a bit, as suggested, and added a cougar while I was at it (just removed the spots from the leopard, actually).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The generic colors are enough for me, color variants are too much trouble. if anyone else wants to add them, go ahead.
Also, that blood looks amazing. The corridors of my fortress shall run red. Blood for the blood god!
Post by: Rose on June 18, 2010, 11:06:31 am
Post by: Retro on June 18, 2010, 11:09:14 am
These are the files I use, same .xml
Has more solid looking glass and ice, but you can still see through a little.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ah, okay! That's actually really handy, thanks. I'm still looking a the completely-opaque version, but this lets me know what I should end up with.
Post by: Moontayle on June 18, 2010, 11:35:47 am
I was thinking cheetahs were smaller, with leopards being the middle ground. Well, the only difference is their size, so it's just a matter of assigning the correct sprite to each one. I also changed the skin tones a bit, as suggested, and added a cougar while I was at it (just removed the spots from the leopard, actually).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The generic colors are enough for me, color variants are too much trouble. if anyone else wants to add them, go ahead.
Also, that blood looks amazing. The corridors of my fortress shall run red. Blood for the blood god!
Only quibble: Head on Cheetah is same size as the others and with the smaller body it just looks weird. Other than that, awesome awesome awesome.
Post by: Jordix on June 18, 2010, 11:14:44 pm
Only quibble: Head on Cheetah is same size as the others and with the smaller body it just looks weird. Other than that, awesome awesome awesome.
Yeah I thought the same, makes it look somewhat like a child, but I couldn't make the head any smaller without making it unrecognizable. I might try to fix that again someday.
Anyway, I made a few more. Unfortunately the only wildlife around my fortress is elephants, and the hippies haven't brought me any of these yet, so I don't know how they look in-game (it's the first fortress I'm playing in this version). Tomorrow I might do some exploratory embarks and try to see how they look.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on June 19, 2010, 07:55:56 am
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on June 19, 2010, 12:22:12 pm
gabriel@Iridio:/opt/df_linux/stonesense/build$ make
[ 4%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o
In file included from /opt/df_linux/stonesense/Block.h:3,
from /opt/df_linux/stonesense/Block.cpp:1:
/opt/df_linux/stonesense/common.h:34:27: error: modules/world.h: No such file or directory
/opt/df_linux/stonesense/Block.cpp: In member function void Block::Draw():
/opt/df_linux/stonesense/Block.cpp:463: error: invalid initialization of non-const reference of type ALLEGRO_COLOR& from a temporary of type ALLEGRO_COLOR
/opt/df_linux/stonesense/GUI.h:56: error: in passing argument 1 of ALLEGRO_COLOR partialBlend(ALLEGRO_COLOR&, ALLEGRO_COLOR&, int)
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Insalled Allegro 4.9.19 and still got that.
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 19, 2010, 12:51:52 pm
Post by: LucasUP on June 19, 2010, 01:05:09 pm
I'm still getting a flashing screen when I try to use stonesense and this is with the latest SDL DF version that just came out.
Someone has to make a new memory .xml for Stonesense to work with
Considering I just woke up to find that
What a bunch of slackers :P
Post by: Jordix on June 19, 2010, 05:14:52 pm
Arena mode is highly recommended for testing animals.
Right, completely forgot about the arena. I tried them now, but it seems the bears and deer already have sprites. Which is strange, because I checked the creatures folder before making them, and couldn't find any sprites for those animals. What am I missing here, are they hardcoded in the program somehow?
Post by: Khalan on June 20, 2010, 03:09:11 am
Post by: jonask84 on June 21, 2010, 09:39:27 am
I double checked... I ran DF in admin mode, I ran Stonesense in admin mode, I had my fort loaded up and on the screen, and I still get 'Stonesense has stopped working' immediately upon running the .exe
A blank window pops up titled 'Allegro' and then seconds after the 'Stonesense has stopped working' window pops up.
Does it have anything to do with where the DF and/or Stonesense folders are located on my computer?
Edit - I am using the most current DF (.6) and I have the SDL version, not legaacy
Have you tried changing the render in the init file? The default is OpenGL, but i think it might be worth a shot trying DirectX or software rendering too.
Edit:
Post by: Old-one-eye on June 21, 2010, 09:57:16 am
Tried that memory xml, still get the flashing screen after hitting f9.I double checked... I ran DF in admin mode, I ran Stonesense in admin mode, I had my fort loaded up and on the screen, and I still get 'Stonesense has stopped working' immediately upon running the .exe
A blank window pops up titled 'Allegro' and then seconds after the 'Stonesense has stopped working' window pops up.
Does it have anything to do with where the DF and/or Stonesense folders are located on my computer?
Edit - I am using the most current DF (.6) and I have the SDL version, not legaacy
Have you tried changing the render in the init file? The default is OpenGL, but i think it might be worth a shot trying DirectX or software rendering too.
Edit: Here's a Memory.xml (http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/f3d75a6070da2217f823b7842c1cafd489487991/output/Memory.xml) that should work with .08 and .07 (untested)
Post by: sjaakwortel on June 21, 2010, 10:26:58 am
Post by: WormSlayer on June 21, 2010, 08:47:37 pm
Post by: Ratboy on June 22, 2010, 06:51:39 am
http://www.freespace.com.au/filehosting/349519 (http://www.freespace.com.au/filehosting/349519)
Post by: sjaakwortel on June 22, 2010, 09:39:42 am
I have a suggestion to, do you think it is possible to get the DF notifications in stonesense ? that would make it a lot cooler (and convient since is only have 2 screens)
Post by: LucasUP on June 22, 2010, 02:53:41 pm
Okay, this memory.xml should work for 31_08. I've briefly tested it on my game and it seems okay.Works for me as well. I've gone ahead and packed it into my LazyNewb pack. So hopefully it wont set peoples computers on fire.
http://www.freespace.com.au/filehosting/349519 (http://www.freespace.com.au/filehosting/349519)
EDIT:
For the ULTRA LAZY, here is Stonesense Pre-installed with .08 support:
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2562
Post by: Greiger on June 23, 2010, 01:06:11 pm
This is what I got.
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp103/Greiger2/Spikes_test.png)
I made it grey so that it hopefully can obtain coloration from the materiel. But when I looked at the stonesense xml entry for spikes they seem to be some kind of special case, it has a sprite index, but it dosn't actually seem to point to a file, so i can't figure out how it finds the current sprite for me to add it ingame. So I can't get any in program screenshots (or see how it looks to make tweaks)
I also don't actually know how to get the sprite to get it's color from the materiel, I tried looking at the wiki page for sprite editing, but it seems out of date. Either that or I was looking at the wrong page or something, any hints?
EDIT: Nevermind, figured it out.
Post by: Truean on June 23, 2010, 01:14:34 pm
1.) Forgotten beasts (randomized materials, body types, etc).
2.) Demons (also seemingly random to a degree
3.) Custom workshops and animals (Training dummies and cave turtles for shells)
Post by: Rose on June 24, 2010, 08:12:32 am
Post by: Andir on June 24, 2010, 12:41:53 pm
Post by: 1-Down Shroom on June 24, 2010, 05:10:40 pm
Post by: Jordix on June 24, 2010, 10:53:20 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Gorobay on June 25, 2010, 07:05:46 am
Post by: buckets on June 25, 2010, 05:49:25 pm
Create a creature of some sort... then pixelate it like they used to do to censor things on TV. :p
Dude, that's perfect.
Post by: Jordix on June 25, 2010, 08:08:40 pm
Tigermen don't wear clothes.
Well if they're gonna walk around my dinning halls all day, doing nothing except eating my food, they can at least show some modesty.
Post by: Mephansteras on June 25, 2010, 08:12:54 pm
Tigermen don't wear clothes.
Well if they're gonna walk around my dinning halls all day, doing nothing except eating my food, they can at least show some modesty.
Why? It's not like the dwarves do...
Post by: Truean on June 25, 2010, 08:51:22 pm
Tigermen don't wear clothes.
Well if they're gonna walk around my dinning halls all day, doing nothing except eating my food, they can at least show some modesty.
Why? It's not like the dwarves do...
Only if its in their personality traits....
Post by: Jordix on June 25, 2010, 09:07:12 pm
Tigermen don't wear clothes.
Well if they're gonna walk around my dinning halls all day, doing nothing except eating my food, they can at least show some modesty.
Why? It's not like the dwarves do...
True, I don't know if dwarves even have the mental capacity to feel emarrassment, but I'm not taking any chances on this matter. I may be cruel sometimes, but turning my fortress into a nudist resort for furries, that's crossing the line.
Post by: Andir on June 26, 2010, 07:58:44 am
Do you have any cats or dogs? Do you dress them? ;)Tigermen don't wear clothes.
Well if they're gonna walk around my dinning halls all day, doing nothing except eating my food, they can at least show some modesty.
Why? It's not like the dwarves do...
True, I don't know if dwarves even have the mental capacity to feel emarrassment, but I'm not taking any chances on this matter. I may be cruel sometimes, but turning my fortress into a nudist resort for furries, that's crossing the line.
Post by: zwei on June 26, 2010, 08:59:01 am
Do you have any cats or dogs? Do you dress them? ;)Tigermen don't wear clothes.
Well if they're gonna walk around my dinning halls all day, doing nothing except eating my food, they can at least show some modesty.
Why? It's not like the dwarves do...
True, I don't know if dwarves even have the mental capacity to feel emarrassment, but I'm not taking any chances on this matter. I may be cruel sometimes, but turning my fortress into a nudist resort for furries, that's crossing the line.
(http://europuppyblog.com/media/40/Spok_in_metal_420x306.jpg)?
Actual RL dogs do wear stuff like bulletproof vests.
Just like horses got armor, so did war dogs.
And, well, google for "dog clothes"
Post by: Solifuge on June 26, 2010, 09:59:26 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on June 26, 2010, 12:33:55 pm
Post by: EBannion on June 26, 2010, 09:57:16 pm
... Also added tigermen, since they're now tameable...
Though from my experience if you have no water they wo'n't drink booze, and instead dehydrate and die, since they need to drink like real people and unlike animals.
Post by: zwei on June 27, 2010, 12:46:25 pm
Post by: Star Guarded on June 28, 2010, 03:00:06 pm
Jordix: awesome wild animals pack. thank you!
edit: googling alerted me to this one by Deon that i just modded in.
http://i50.tinypic.com/4i0ac6.png
awesome.
Post by: Star Weaver on June 30, 2010, 12:40:58 am
Thanks for the awesome :)
Post by: LucasUP on June 30, 2010, 12:50:48 am
If you know this and just want it to automatically stop refreshing when minimized, and then continue when restored, then I suppose that would be convenient.
Post by: HeliumFreak on June 30, 2010, 07:09:15 am
Post by: Rose on June 30, 2010, 08:14:12 am
note: I'm the only active dev, more or less :D
Post by: gavento on June 30, 2010, 06:28:48 pm
Some addresses are not defined for any Linux 31.x version (in Memory.xml), some are there for 31.04. The missing addresses seem to be necessary for stonesense - providing fake ones/the ones for 31.04 results in crash. DFHack utilities use just the defined subset of adresses and work as expected.
I used DF_linux 31.08, Allegro libraries from ubuntu allegro packages.
Anyway, to compile on Linux, it is currently (svn-ro r832) necessary:
- create local variables of type ALLEGRO_COLOR for colors created by al_map_rgb(...) in Block.cpp and GUI.cpp
- replace itoa() with sprintf() (itoa is not in C++ standard and gcc does not have it)
- fix some include filenames (linux is case-sensitive)
- add SpriteObjects.cpp and SpriteColors.cpp to source list in CMakeList.txt
- remove al_set_system_mouse_cursor() command from main.cpp (crashes when run, I have no idea why)
DFHack has to be compiled separately (no problems there) It makes sense to replace the 'dfhack' directory by a link to dfhack.git/library/ but might not be necessary. You can point cmake to the dfhack library with " -D LINK_DIRECTORIES=..../dfhack/output". If you do not compile debug version of dfhack, modify library list in stonesense CMakeList.txt to use just "dfhack".
Running ./stonesense then opens Allegro window, writes "Connecting to DF ..." and exits complaining about missing memory definition in Memory.xml
Pity that using wine+stonesense and linux DF can't help me ;-)
Post by: Retro on June 30, 2010, 07:21:25 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see how the water and ice don't really... mesh well.
Post by: Solifuge on July 01, 2010, 09:18:59 am
Quick question: How can I make water look darker instead of tropical? It's nice against natural settings, but I want to tweak it to look more glacial.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see how the water and ice don't really... mesh well.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf%20Fortress/dv1253014.jpg?t=1277993729)
Just saying. In all honesty, the ice needs the tweaking, not the water.
/me makes a mental note
Post by: belannaer on July 01, 2010, 09:33:21 am
Post by: bartavelle on July 01, 2010, 12:31:44 pm
Post by: Andir on July 01, 2010, 06:22:12 pm
I managed to smuggle a screenshot of stonesense (undergrotto map) in this magazine http://www.ed-diamond.com/index_misc.php, issue #50.
http://www.ed-diamond.com/feuille_misc50/index.html
Page 17
Took me a couple seconds to figure out how their website worked since I don't speak the language. :P
Post by: Hummingbird on July 01, 2010, 09:47:09 pm
Quick question: How can I make water look darker instead of tropical? It's nice against natural settings, but I want to tweak it to look more glacial.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see how the water and ice don't really... mesh well.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just saying. In all honesty, the ice needs the tweaking, not the water.
/me makes a mental note
I agree. It looks too gray and not bluish enough at the moment. Some transparency might also help?
Post by: Neonivek on July 01, 2010, 09:52:39 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 02, 2010, 12:10:22 am
natural ice should look like frosted glass, if you'll pardon the expression.
Post by: Retro on July 02, 2010, 04:07:37 am
That being said - can anyone answer my question of what to change to be able to tweak water's colour? I'm not interested in waiting for the latest release and hoping it turns out the way I'm thinking of, I'd like to change it myself. I just don't know what I'm looking for.
Post by: NRN_R_Sumo1 on July 02, 2010, 04:29:40 am
That's all natural ice. And ice is currently translucent, actually; I went into the terrain pngs and replaced them because they looked silly and lagged like hell.could load the water tiles into photoshop just simply turn them a little darker.
That being said - can anyone answer my question of what to change to be able to tweak water's colour? I'm not interested in waiting for the latest release and hoping it turns out the way I'm thinking of, I'd like to change it myself. I just don't know what I'm looking for.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 02, 2010, 04:30:55 am
That being said - can anyone answer my question of what to change to be able to tweak water's colour? I'm not interested in waiting for the latest release and hoping it turns out the way I'm thinking of, I'd like to change it myself. I just don't know what I'm looking for.
I'm sure if someone knew they answer they would tell you. No need to be snippy.
Post by: winner on July 02, 2010, 09:51:27 am
Post by: kingpocky on July 05, 2010, 09:18:33 pm
Post by: HunterZ on July 06, 2010, 10:58:44 pm
I have mingw installed (via Qt SDK) as well as Visual Studio 2010 Express, CMake and TortoiseSVN, and I wasn't able to get the source to build. I followed the MinGW instructions included in the SVN and it failed miserably. I tried building an MSVC 2010 solution using CMake and the resulting solution failed to build. I tried opening the pre-generated Visual Studio solution file in the SVN in MSVC 2010 Express and the resulting .exe crashed on start.
Post by: Rose on July 07, 2010, 05:04:22 am
Post by: RCIX on July 07, 2010, 05:58:59 am
Post by: Andir on July 07, 2010, 06:46:27 am
I want to use this with DF 31.08, but Stonesense acts like it can't see DF when it's open. Any ETA on 31.08 support?You should probably read back about 3 pages.
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 07, 2010, 08:32:19 pm
Post by: RCIX on July 07, 2010, 11:29:23 pm
I got my solution, and it wasn't really a hassle. Though if you want to avvoid the thread getting this question over and over, you can put a link to that XML file in the first post :)
Post by: Jadael on July 08, 2010, 01:00:52 am
Post by: Razumen on July 08, 2010, 11:14:23 am
it'd doable, actually. but none of the active devs are interested in that particular feature.Is that the planned goal of any of these visualizers? At least eventually? I know the graphical side of DF will improve eventually in someway, but it would be cool if Toady One could separate the graphics and interface code from the main game, allowing community developers to help create their own visualizers and interfaces-like plugins of a sort. It would probably help open the game up to a lot more people if that were so.
note: I'm the only active dev, more or less :D
Post by: Skyrage on July 08, 2010, 01:20:44 pm
Post by: Andir on July 08, 2010, 02:33:29 pm
Trust me, I've suggested that and even converting DF into a client/server model (same thing basically, but you could have a client on your laptop and play DF that was running on your "server" or Game PC) and I've even suggested taking it further and making modules that connect to a "world server"(AKA, DF Server) that could be used as a "cheat" to enable multi-processing by firing off client apps that control AI and the OS could thread them off. You could even trigger off multiple clients with separate forts.it'd doable, actually. but none of the active devs are interested in that particular feature.Is that the planned goal of any of these visualizers? At least eventually? I know the graphical side of DF will improve eventually in someway, but it would be cool if Toady One could separate the graphics and interface code from the main game, allowing community developers to help create their own visualizers and interfaces-like plugins of a sort. It would probably help open the game up to a lot more people if that were so.
note: I'm the only active dev, more or less :D
All kinds of suggestions have been brought up, shot down, and there are those of us that have pretty much given up making suggestions.
Post by: WormSlayer on July 08, 2010, 05:42:37 pm
Usually I remember to close it before saving, but not always :F
Post by: peterix on July 08, 2010, 06:08:16 pm
Stonesense crashes, then locks up DF when I save :(Run dfunstuck.exe ... it's a workaround, but good enough until problems like this one are resolved.
Usually I remember to close it before saving, but not always :F
Post by: Razumen on July 09, 2010, 02:05:47 am
Trust me, I've suggested that and even converting DF into a client/server model (same thing basically, but you could have a client on your laptop and play DF that was running on your "server" or Game PC) and I've even suggested taking it further and making modules that connect to a "world server"(AKA, DF Server) that could be used as a "cheat" to enable multi-processing by firing off client apps that control AI and the OS could thread them off. You could even trigger off multiple clients with separate forts.it'd doable, actually. but none of the active devs are interested in that particular feature.Is that the planned goal of any of these visualizers? At least eventually? I know the graphical side of DF will improve eventually in someway, but it would be cool if Toady One could separate the graphics and interface code from the main game, allowing community developers to help create their own visualizers and interfaces-like plugins of a sort. It would probably help open the game up to a lot more people if that were so.
note: I'm the only active dev, more or less :D
All kinds of suggestions have been brought up, shot down, and there are those of us that have pretty much given up making suggestions.
Oh well, we can always dream I guess... :p
Post by: Lord Nightmare on July 09, 2010, 08:56:17 am
currently, nothing using Cmake builds, the only thing that works is the included MSVC project file
Any chance of looking into this? I can't build stonesense on linux with an msvc project file...
LN
Post by: Rose on July 09, 2010, 08:57:53 am
at the moment, I don't have a whole lot of time, but I'll see what I can do
Post by: Star Weaver on July 09, 2010, 09:09:31 am
Stonesense crashes, then locks up DF when I save :(Run dfunstuck.exe ... it's a workaround, but good enough until problems like this one are resolved.
Usually I remember to close it before saving, but not always :F
It also likes to do this when going to the map travel (and possibly the quest?) screen in adventure mode, which can be really annoying in some situations due to frequency. :).
Post by: Cult of the Raven on July 09, 2010, 12:33:15 pm
Stonesense crashes, then locks up DF when I save :(Run dfunstuck.exe ... it's a workaround, but good enough until problems like this one are resolved.
Usually I remember to close it before saving, but not always :F
It also likes to do this when going to the map travel (and possibly the quest?) screen in adventure mode, which can be really annoying in some situations due to frequency. :) .
I have this problem as well, and dfunstuck tells me it can't run due to a missing library.
Post by: Star Weaver on July 09, 2010, 12:52:22 pm
I have this problem as well, and dfunstuck tells me it can't run due to a missing library.
I had that problem too but forgot to mention it. The dfhack library that it uses isn't packaged with the main distributions of stonesense. You can get it from somewhere on their code repo (i think I just googled the filename), or pick up the DFHack kit which includes dfunstuck in it's utils.
Post by: Bethor on July 11, 2010, 04:44:02 am
When i launch Stonesence i get the message "Connecting to DF, i am running both Stonesence and DF in administrator mode
I tried changing the rendering, that has no effect.
put log on to verbose, got this
Quote
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 works.
New image: objects.png
Creating image cache #0
New image: creatures.png
New image: ramps.png
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
eventually it crashes.
any pointers on how to get stonesence to work are appreciated. I fear i will be missing something obvious
Post by: mikefictiti0us on July 11, 2010, 07:18:57 am
any pointers on how to get stonesence to work are appreciated. I fear i will be missing something obvious
You need the updated .xml file. Get it here : http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2562 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2562).
Post by: Bethor on July 11, 2010, 09:40:13 am
Post by: falcon256 on July 11, 2010, 01:55:32 pm
oh.. and Hiyas Bethor!
Post by: shibdib on July 11, 2010, 08:52:15 pm
Post by: shibdib on July 12, 2010, 01:27:32 am
Post by: Star Guarded on July 13, 2010, 12:43:29 am
Post by: Rose on July 13, 2010, 01:23:31 am
Question .. is there any way to add multiple sprites for a single object? Like statues? Like if I have a statue of rats, is there a way to add a sprite for that and have Stonesense distinguish between them somehow? Even if I just have two types of statues? I realize it probably can't detect what kind of statue it is based on the madlibs/description but if all the rat statues are made out of mudstone and the dwarf statues are made out of another type of stone, could I do something with that?
yes, you can have different sprites for different materials.
Post by: shibdib on July 13, 2010, 03:00:49 am
Post by: Star Guarded on July 13, 2010, 03:01:54 am
Sweeet. Thank you!Question .. is there any way to add multiple sprites for a single object? Like statues? Like if I have a statue of rats, is there a way to add a sprite for that and have Stonesense distinguish between them somehow? Even if I just have two types of statues? I realize it probably can't detect what kind of statue it is based on the madlibs/description but if all the rat statues are made out of mudstone and the dwarf statues are made out of another type of stone, could I do something with that?
yes, you can have different sprites for different materials.
Post by: shibdib on July 13, 2010, 11:12:49 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on July 14, 2010, 02:43:15 am
Post by: Greiger on July 14, 2010, 04:21:06 pm
I can confirm DFUnstuck works with .10 though, heh. :)
Post by: Star Guarded on July 15, 2010, 06:59:48 pm
Post by: RadGH on July 15, 2010, 08:38:14 pm
(http://radleygh.com/images/Stonesense_2010-196-18-35-51-82.png)
This program worked fine on my Windows XP 32-bit machine, but now I am on Windows Seven 64-bit.
Post by: Rose on July 15, 2010, 08:51:00 pm
Hey Japa, you mentioned a few pages back you're the only active dev. Why is that? People just busy at the moment?
everybody's busy. me too now
What does this mean? When I press F9 it flickers between this broken screen and some other even more broken screen:
(http://radleygh.com/images/Stonesense_2010-196-18-35-51-82.png)
This program worked fine on my Windows XP 32-bit machine, but now I am on Windows Seven 64-bit.
it's not the OS. have you tried changing the graphics mode to directx? unless you install the official drivers of your videocard, windoes 7 has shit opengl support.
Post by: DamnedChoir on July 16, 2010, 02:08:31 pm
Awesome.
Post by: buckets on July 16, 2010, 02:24:05 pm
Hey Japa, you mentioned a few pages back you're the only active dev. Why is that? People just busy at the moment?
everybody's busy. me too now
Awww, so this is the end for Stonesence development? Sure is a pity, you guys did awesome though.
Post by: Andir on July 16, 2010, 03:09:32 pm
Hey Japa, you mentioned a few pages back you're the only active dev. Why is that? People just busy at the moment?
everybody's busy. me too now
Awww, so this is the end for Stonesence development? Sure is a pity, you guys did awesome though.
Wow, that's a jump.
Post by: SenorPez on July 16, 2010, 04:22:00 pm
Hey Japa, you mentioned a few pages back you're the only active dev. Why is that? People just busy at the moment?
everybody's busy. me too now
Awww, so this is the end for Stonesence development? Sure is a pity, you guys did awesome though.
Wow, that's a jump.
For most volunteer-based coding project, it's not. If all the devs lose interest, it's usually more common for a project to just cease development, since by the time new people are brought online, the community itself has moved on.
For example, 31.10 is still not supported. The community is moving on.
Post by: James.Denholm on July 16, 2010, 06:02:52 pm
Hey Japa, you mentioned a few pages back you're the only active dev. Why is that? People just busy at the moment?
everybody's busy. me too now
Awww, so this is the end for Stonesence development? Sure is a pity, you guys did awesome though.
Wow, that's a jump.
For most volunteer-based coding project, it's not. If all the devs lose interest, it's usually more common for a project to just cease development, since by the time new people are brought online, the community itself has moved on.
For example, 31.10 is still not supported. The community is moving on.
Jeez, mate, give them some time to catch up. They aren't your personal coding monkeys, you know.
Keep your pants on, allright?
Post by: Star Guarded on July 17, 2010, 12:38:38 am
Post by: MP2E on July 17, 2010, 12:50:59 am
Post by: Rose on July 17, 2010, 11:04:10 am
So a project is dead instantly because the volunteers are busy for a little bit? Wow. Ridiculous. :| Look at all the time, code, and resources that have been put into this project? I don't see it "dying" any time soon. Even if the developers did quit on it I'm sure a few months later someone new would jump on board and bring it up to date
hey, that's what happened in my case.
Post by: shibdib on July 17, 2010, 03:42:01 pm
So a project is dead instantly because the volunteers are busy for a little bit? Wow. Ridiculous. :| Look at all the time, code, and resources that have been put into this project? I don't see it "dying" any time soon. Even if the developers did quit on it I'm sure a few months later someone new would jump on board and bring it up to date
Just because something has alot of time in it doesnt mean it cant die.. if obsidian ever gets working this will disappear. Your more likely to see some1 make a completely new project instead of picking up an old one as they get the glory.
Post by: James.Denholm on July 17, 2010, 04:45:04 pm
Just because something has alot of time in it doesnt mean it cant die.. if obsidian ever gets working this will disappear. Your more likely to see some1 make a completely new project instead of picking up an old one as they get the glory.
I don't want to take the flamebait here, really, but...
Just... No.
Post by: Greiger on July 17, 2010, 05:21:11 pm
It's not a real update of course, but it would get it working.
Post by: Symbiode on July 17, 2010, 08:05:59 pm
if it helps anything the memory.xml for runesmith seems to work just fine in stonesense for version .10.
It's not a real update of course, but it would get it working.
I tried to replace the Memory.xml with the one from Runesmith, but it still got stuck at 'connecting to df'. Did you modify anything else to get it to work?
Post by: Greiger on July 17, 2010, 08:53:59 pm
It should be the exact same thing to just copy the whole file. But if it's not working maybe I'm wrong.
I took this from the runesmith memory .xml
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And it goes right above the linux penguin in stonesense's .xml file right after the last </entry> in the windows block.
That should get it working with the graphics version. Remember I didn't find these values, the guys at Runesmith, Therapist, and DFHack did from what I understand.
P.S. Also note that these values are just a random thing I decided to try that happened to work. I haven't come across any problems but note that these values have not been fully tested in stonesense. I'm not on the team and only have dabbling programming skill. If anyone wants me to take these down, just give me a holler in PM or here. And I'll remove them as soon as I see the message, and I apologize in advance.
P.S. #2 You may want to back up your old memory.xml. These values seem to work for some, and not others.
Post by: Joishi on July 17, 2010, 09:23:12 pm
Thanks!
Post by: Ivar360 on July 17, 2010, 09:31:28 pm
adding that code into the spot you mentioned worked for me!! (But I started with the .08 memory.xml file from the file depot AND I'm using the SDL version)
Thanks!
After downloading the .08 xml file and copying the code mine works too :D
Post by: Thoth on July 17, 2010, 09:53:19 pm
Post by: As Always on July 17, 2010, 10:05:09 pm
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 works.
Once for each time I run it. Any help? I'd like to take a look at my most current fort in Stonesense, haha.
Post by: Trigonous on July 17, 2010, 10:12:55 pm
Post by: Greiger on July 17, 2010, 11:08:40 pm
All I can think of is maybe the tokens being placed in the wrong spot, though these forums tend to be pretty good at that kind of thing. Here's more of my own memory.xml (includes the .08 data and linux penguin.) in case there is any misunderstanding with the location instructions. The .9 and .10 entries are bold It seem to need them both as they appear to use previous versions as a base even though stonesense probably wouldn't work properly on .09 even with these entries judging from the comments.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
That's really all I can think of.
And yea, as others said you will need the entries for .08 as well (I had mistakenly assumed they came with the last release). I don't recall exactly where I got the .08 numbers shown here, but I assume I pulled them from the file on the depot.
Post by: Thoth on July 17, 2010, 11:30:42 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solifuge on July 17, 2010, 11:51:34 pm
Anywho, I've been messing with irregular (non-cube) tile shapes, and came up with the following:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/IrregularTilesDemo.png)
Going to get all the Natural Stone Tile types down using a similar geometry, so ore veins and gem deposits can be layered over base stone tiles. (There's a simple Moss texture here showing the same principle behind this; the tiles are designed to have divisions in certain places, so that one Moss Overlay can be put over natural sandstone pillars or Stone Block Walls, and it will look as though it is growing in cracks or along contours.)
The tiles have been redesigned so that a black hollow area is on the top of all Wall tiles, so that when viewing in the underground layers, you can quickly tell that the you're not at the topmost layer. Any walls without floors on top would display with the top part black implying a cutaway, and you can also use the half-tall cutaway blocks to display interiors in single-layer view, or in the case that simple foreground wall cutaway logic is implemented... rather than those Cyan thatched block things that are currently being used.
Also, you might notice the tiles with and without borders. The bordered versions are for displaying on edges so you can tell same-colored walls from floors, while the unbordered versions are for displaying multiple contiguous walls. You can cut and paste certain parts the bordered-tile graphic and overlay them on the non-outlined tiles when there is open space adjacent to them, to create dynamic borders. I suppose you could instead code the engine to learn to recognize the edges of 2D graphics, and draw a shaded border along it as needed that would work as well, but that sounds like it could be a pain to code.
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/IrregularTilesBorders.png?t=1279427678)
Post by: umiman on July 17, 2010, 11:53:45 pm
Post by: Rose on July 18, 2010, 12:04:03 am
possible per-tile borders, for ones that aren't straight.
tile-specified cross-section, replaces the hatch thing.
moss.
did I get that right?
anybody got a for with moss in it that I can use for testing?
Post by: As Always on July 18, 2010, 12:27:16 am
Post by: Retro on July 18, 2010, 12:33:04 am
Post by: Reese on July 18, 2010, 01:09:18 am
Post by: Solifuge on July 18, 2010, 02:47:34 am
Here's a better show of the new stuff tiling. Though right now it's just using one tile per texture, these are eventually going to pull from a set of 4 different graphics for each tile type, similar to how in DF each stone tile displays as one of several punctuation symbols (,.'`). Also each stone type (Metamorphic, Igneous Extrusive, etc.) will have a separate set of graphics. The stone featured here will be Striated Sedimentary, as in for Sandstone, Slate, etc.
Post by: Rose on July 18, 2010, 04:07:37 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: shibdib on July 18, 2010, 04:17:26 am
Here's another shot showing the tilingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
awesome work
Post by: James.Denholm on July 18, 2010, 05:35:48 am
Here's another shot showing the tilingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
You, sir, have a weird way of announcing features.
I like it.
Post by: punkibastardo on July 18, 2010, 05:49:52 am
Post by: Rose on July 18, 2010, 06:36:27 am
Spoiler: block_walls.png (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: block_floors.png (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: block_walls.xml (click to show/hide)
[EDIT] when lines are the same color as the forum background, pink is needed.
Post by: Andir on July 18, 2010, 07:34:50 am
anybody got a for with moss in it that I can use for testing?
Maybe... although it was a fort I created WAY back in the Mayday DFG8 version (I think.)
I have been unsuccessful at getting it in the new version. I'm sure that if it's possible to update saves it will probably have to be opened in an intermediate version of DF to be compatible with the new DF?
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2721
Post by: MMad on July 18, 2010, 08:21:38 am
Post by: Trigonous on July 18, 2010, 12:51:44 pm
Post by: Solifuge on July 18, 2010, 02:19:26 pm
If that new save doesn't work, you can gen a world with Moss by generating a world with at least one ruins, and letting the game run for about 1,000 years or so
Post by: JanusTwoface on July 18, 2010, 03:25:58 pm
I suppose you could instead code the engine to learn to recognize the edges of 2D graphics, and draw a shaded border along it as needed that would work as well, but that sounds like it could be a pain to code.
Does Allegro 4.9 allow for pixel/fragment shaders? That would be a (relatively) easy way to problematically generate the bold borders.
Note that this is without looking at exactly how Stonesense does it's thing. It might easily be harder, even if Allegro supports it.
Post by: s20dan on July 18, 2010, 07:26:15 pm
I'm currently building a clear glass pyramid in 31.10 and in stonesense this is how it looks:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have tried changing the floor sprites to ice to try and fix it, but I don't really know what I'm doing and was hoping someone here would know what to do.
So any ideas how to make those walls and floors look more like the glass?
I would expect its some problem my end as I have seen some great shots of glass buildings in stonesense.
I can't use OpenGL mode for some reason, so perhaps that has something to do with it?
Cheers.
Post by: Star Guarded on July 19, 2010, 02:03:11 am
Post by: Thundrim on July 19, 2010, 04:31:32 am
---
Post by: sparr on July 19, 2010, 02:56:53 pm
Block.cpp:308: error: invalid initialization of non-const reference of type ALLEGRO_COLOR& from a temporary of type ALLEGRO_COLOR
GUI.h:56: error: in passing argument 1 of ALLEGRO_COLOR partialBlend(ALLEGRO_COLOR&, ALLEGRO_COLOR&, int)
fixed that one by changing partialBlend to take ALLEGRO_COLOR parameters by value instead of by reference, slight performance hit there.
GUI.cpp:362: error: itoa was not declared in this scope
this one is probably an issue specific to my build environment, I just got rid of the call and printed out b->occ.whole as an integer, I can do the bit math in my head for now.
VegetationConfiguration.cpp:7:27: error: spriteObjects.h: No such file or directory
spriteObjects.h is actually named SpriteObjects.h, note the capital S
Linking CXX executable ../stonesense
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lallegro_flac
this, along with -lallegro_vorbis elsewhere, is deprecated with recent Allegro5. allegro_acodec replaced all of the audio specific libraries. Fixed the appropriate line in CMakeLists then re-ran cmake.
Linking CXX executable ../stonesense
/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -ldfhack-debug
This one has me stumped. I have some libraries (possibly for windows) in ../dfhack/, but nowhere do I have a *dfhack-debug*.a or .so
I hope this helps someone, and that in turn someone can help me on that last one.
Post by: Rose on July 19, 2010, 08:04:39 pm
regarding DFhack, You'd have to build it yourself, methinks.
Post by: Rose on July 19, 2010, 10:15:52 pm
libes used are:
dfhack 4.0.2
allegro 4.9.21
make sure you got both of those installed before trying to build stonsense.
Post by: danielbln on July 20, 2010, 07:50:48 am
Code: [Select]
:~/Desktop/stonesense$ ./stonesense
stonesense: /home/xxxx/Desktop/allegro-4.9/src/mousenu.c:316: al_set_system_mouse_cursor: Assertion `display' failed.
Aborted
Any ideas?
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2010, 08:39:43 am
Post by: danielbln on July 20, 2010, 09:10:41 am
Post by: sjaakwortel on July 20, 2010, 12:17:29 pm
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2010, 01:03:02 pm
replace the contents of the memory.xml with this
should work.
Post by: sjaakwortel on July 20, 2010, 01:14:01 pm
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2010, 01:20:52 pm
Post by: Granite on July 20, 2010, 01:22:59 pm
I tried 3 xmls from diferent links.
Post by: Tabithda on July 20, 2010, 01:25:58 pm
Doesnt seem to work, when i press connect it starts flashing back to the startscreenWith the pastebin thing, don't copy the text from the main post, that will cause the program to do what you described. Instead scroll down the the edit box called "submit a correction or amendment below" located the bottom of the post and copy-paste from that.
Post by: Granite on July 20, 2010, 01:29:17 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on July 20, 2010, 01:32:02 pm
Doesn't work here too. After pressing F9, Sontesense keeps saying "Connecting to DF..." indefinitely.
Those memory locations work fine for me (just tried them). Here's what I did:
- Using Phoebus 0.31.10 for DF (SDL version, otherwise the changes shouldn't matter)
- Download Stonesense Slate RC2 (from the OP)
- Download the Memory.xml file from pastebin, replacing the one in Stonesense's directory
- Start Dwarf Fortress
- Start Stonesense
- Load my fort
- Press F9
- It works!
Edit: Starting Dwarf Fortress and Stonesense can be done in any order, but you have to Load a Fort before you Press F9. I don't actually know if it will break completely if you don't, but it definitely won't work (there's no data loaded for it to possibly work on).
If it still doesn't work, are you using the SDL version or the Legacy version? (I'm pretty sure you need the SDL version for that Memory.xml)
Do you have a fort loaded? (If you have, don't be mad, it's come up several times in the past several thousand replies in this thread).
Doesnt seem to work, when i press connect it starts flashing back to the startscreenWith the pastebin thing, don't copy the text from the main post, that will cause the program to do what you described. Instead scroll down the the edit box called "submit a correction or amendment below" located the bottom of the post and copy-paste from that.
Or choose 'Download Raw' under 'Paste Actions' and save over the previous file (that's what I did).
Post by: Flying Carcass on July 20, 2010, 02:05:15 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59026.0
Post by: Jordix on July 20, 2010, 04:32:49 pm
Awesome, can't wait to try it.
Post by: Cult of the Raven on July 20, 2010, 06:55:57 pm
Just saying. ;)
Post by: Star Guarded on July 21, 2010, 12:28:39 am
Wait, are those walls being displayed half-height? Because just a few days ago I was thinking how that would be a really useful feature to view inside areas.You can do that in the current version too :) Default key for the function is "C"
Awesome, can't wait to try it.
Post by: Granite on July 21, 2010, 02:03:20 am
Doesn't work here too. After pressing F9, Sontesense keeps saying "Connecting to DF..." indefinitely.
Those memory locations work fine for me (just tried them). Here's what I did:
- Using Phoebus 0.31.10 for DF (SDL version, otherwise the changes shouldn't matter)
- Download Stonesense Slate RC2 (from the OP)
- Download the Memory.xml file from pastebin, replacing the one in Stonesense's directory
- Start Dwarf Fortress
- Start Stonesense
- Load my fort
- Press F9
- It works!
Edit: Starting Dwarf Fortress and Stonesense can be done in any order, but you have to Load a Fort before you Press F9. I don't actually know if it will break completely if you don't, but it definitely won't work (there's no data loaded for it to possibly work on).
If it still doesn't work, are you using the SDL version or the Legacy version? (I'm pretty sure you need the SDL version for that Memory.xml)
Do you have a fort loaded? (If you have, don't be mad, it's come up several times in the past several thousand replies in this thread).
Ok. Followed all those steps, just to be sure that I had not skipped anything, and now Stonesense is flashing between the opening screen and that "Connecting to DF" screen, instead of only displaying "Connecting to DF..."
Oh, and the log contains a lot of
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Granite on July 21, 2010, 02:21:29 am
Downloaded Lazy Newb Pack to get its Stonesense copy, and then the program loaded normally.
However, after going to the well, where there are some dwarves and animals around it, Stonesense crashes, and the same happens if I hit F9 while focused close to the same well.
the DF screen:
(http://dc245.4shared.com/img/344854816/c8d7e9ba/well.jpg?rnd=0.3362721307758745&sizeM=7)
Post by: Rose on July 21, 2010, 02:22:32 am
Post by: TigerPlushie on July 21, 2010, 02:45:44 am
I think it would be a good feature for stonesense to exit gracefully if I exit out of my fort before closing Stonesense instead of throwing up an exception and crashing.
Just saying. ;)
Or closing by itself and hanging my DF while saving, violently screwing my save.
But hey, I just found the most triumphant spot to build a overground underground hybrid fortress.
I'll find another. I'm just glad it's working now.
Post by: Granite on July 21, 2010, 02:50:32 am
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2760
Post by: Thoth on July 21, 2010, 09:15:50 am
Well my pastebin dump of my memory.xml has worked for some as well; http://pastebin.ca/1902778 , another thing to bear in mind use a decent notepad like notepad++ rather than windoze one, oh and im using the sdl version not legacy, so theres not legacy mem loc's in my xml.Doesn't work here too. After pressing F9, Sontesense keeps saying "Connecting to DF..." indefinitely.
Those memory locations work fine for me (just tried them). Here's what I did:
- Using Phoebus 0.31.10 for DF (SDL version, otherwise the changes shouldn't matter)
- Download Stonesense Slate RC2 (from the OP)
- Download the Memory.xml file from pastebin, replacing the one in Stonesense's directory
- Start Dwarf Fortress
- Start Stonesense
- Load my fort
- Press F9
- It works!
Edit: Starting Dwarf Fortress and Stonesense can be done in any order, but you have to Load a Fort before you Press F9. I don't actually know if it will break completely if you don't, but it definitely won't work (there's no data loaded for it to possibly work on).
If it still doesn't work, are you using the SDL version or the Legacy version? (I'm pretty sure you need the SDL version for that Memory.xml)
Do you have a fort loaded? (If you have, don't be mad, it's come up several times in the past several thousand replies in this thread).
Ok. Followed all those steps, just to be sure that I had not skipped anything, and now Stonesense is flashing between the opening screen and that "Connecting to DF" screen, instead of only displaying "Connecting to DF..."
Oh, and the log contains a lot ofSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Granite on July 21, 2010, 12:07:51 pm
I use Dreamweaver to edit the xml's.
Post by: Trigonous on July 21, 2010, 12:10:05 pm
:o I did not know this. That'll make my massive walled forts easier to use...Wait, are those walls being displayed half-height? Because just a few days ago I was thinking how that would be a really useful feature to view inside areas.You can do that in the current version too :) Default key for the function is "C"
Awesome, can't wait to try it.
Post by: Raziel_Blaze on July 22, 2010, 05:15:05 am
Post by: InfernoZeus on July 22, 2010, 11:15:06 am
Post by: Trigonous on July 22, 2010, 11:16:21 am
Is this still being worked on? The OP hasn't been online in a month :(
Don't fear, there's more than just one guy on the dev team. Work continues if you'd look back a page.
Post by: Deon on July 22, 2010, 11:43:23 am
Will this work as a "horse statue"?
(http://i30.tinypic.com/11vjxuh.png)
Post by: Ironhand on July 22, 2010, 12:19:38 pm
And maybe put a pedestal under it or scale it down or something. I don't know how hard that would be to implement...
Post by: Star Guarded on July 22, 2010, 12:43:37 pm
This is for Star Guarded.Absolutely. Thanks so much :D I really appreciate it.
Will this work as a "horse statue"?
(http://i30.tinypic.com/11vjxuh.png)
Quote from: Ironhand
I feel like it would be pretty cool if you could just take the sprite for whatever animal and re-color it to look like stone.It's likely I'll be the only person to use this because I have to recategorize an entire material and make the horse statues only in that material. Unless someone figures out a way to make Stonesense read the madlibs. It's for a project I'm doing involving Stonesense. I'm super satisfied with it so it's good.
And maybe put a pedestal under it or scale it down or something. I don't know how hard that would be to implement...
Post by: Dbuhos on July 22, 2010, 01:23:32 pm
Post by: Truean on July 22, 2010, 04:39:49 pm
Quote
I feel like it would be pretty cool if you could just take the sprite for whatever animal and re-color it to look like stone.
Grayscale it?
Am I oversimplifying here? Probably but I just wanted to ask.
Granted, that wouldn't take stone colors into account but it would be a nice temp fix if it worked.
Post by: Terv on July 23, 2010, 12:50:09 am
EDIT: Never mind, I found out how to replace it. But it still will not work for me :(
Post by: Bralbaard on July 23, 2010, 01:10:27 am
Ok, reporting a bug:
Downloaded Lazy Newb Pack to get its Stonesense copy, and then the program loaded normally.
However, after going to the well, where there are some dwarves and animals around it, Stonesense crashes, and the same happens if I hit F9 while focused close to the same well.
Same problem here, the area causing the crash also contains a well, this could of course be coincidence. Also using the Lazy newb pack(0.31.10)(V3.2)
would another save help?
Post by: Rose on July 23, 2010, 02:10:42 am
Post by: James.Denholm on July 23, 2010, 03:59:10 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on July 23, 2010, 03:48:17 pm
also maek it give cookies from cd drive rom
Post by: Ahp77 on July 23, 2010, 04:32:28 pm
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
I am definitely running Dwarf Fortress.exe.
I did Load the Fort before starting Stonesense.
Post by: SeigeOps on July 23, 2010, 05:20:31 pm
I'm getting a ton of this:
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
I am definitely running Dwarf Fortress.exe.
I did Load the Fort before starting Stonesense.
Prolly cause you're using a newer version that isn't supported yet. Wait a bit for the devs to catch up.
Post by: Valathil on July 23, 2010, 05:40:56 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Granite on July 23, 2010, 07:19:58 pm
It works perfectly, if not for the damn well bug.
Post by: devek on July 23, 2010, 07:24:25 pm
Post by: Orangebottle on July 23, 2010, 07:42:22 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on July 23, 2010, 07:47:35 pm
Could this technically be used to make old utilities work with the new version?
This being the Memory.xml file? Yes.
But it really depends on the utility exactly how much work that will involve. If they're based on DFHack, than you should be able to upgrade to the newest DFHack, drop in the Memory.xml, and you're golden. If they're not, you could use these memory settings to update the programs to the new version of DF with a variable amount of work depending on how the program was written (ranging from 5 minutes of work to nearly impossible).
Did you have a specific utility in mind?
Post by: Orangebottle on July 23, 2010, 08:14:43 pm
Specifically: Dtil and nanofort
Post by: shibdib on July 23, 2010, 08:18:00 pm
Hi everybody here is an updated Memory.xml File for 31.11. Works only with Windows SDL Version. Sorry but i'm too lazy to hack the other versions. Maybe someone can finish it. Thanks to Thoth for giving the original 31.10 file. Thx mate!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
thank you!
Post by: JanusTwoface on July 23, 2010, 08:30:15 pm
Some cheating utilities from 40d.
Specifically: Dtil and nanofort
DFHack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.0) has a lot of basic command line tools bundled with it that replicate much of Dtil's functionality, albeit without the GUI. If there are missing tools from Dtil, DFHack might have them or someone from that thread might be able to make it happen.
As far as Nano Fortress, it still worked (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=21601.msg1134651#msg1134651) as of 0.31.01, although it seems to have stopped working around 0.31.04. You could try poking that thread and see if anyone's figured out how to make it go further, I could swear that I've heard about it working since then, but I might just be imagining things.
Post by: Orangebottle on July 23, 2010, 08:34:01 pm
Post by: Valathil on July 23, 2010, 08:42:58 pm
Post by: Star Guarded on July 23, 2010, 11:11:19 pm
Hi everybody here is an updated Memory.xml File for 31.11. Works only with Windows SDL Version. Sorry but i'm too lazy to hack the other versions. Maybe someone can finish it. Thanks to Thoth for giving the original 31.10 file. Thx mate!Thanks dude!Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Can't wait for the new official release with the new features, too :D
Post by: MaximumZero on July 23, 2010, 11:30:39 pm
Find it here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2795 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2795)
Post by: rat_pack40 on July 24, 2010, 01:26:34 am
Post by: sparr on July 24, 2010, 03:01:09 am
Post by: MaximumZero on July 24, 2010, 09:08:01 am
i just use notepad. still works a charm when you need batch files, html, xml, javascript, or most anything that doesn't require a compiler.
Doing all this stuff can be very intimidating sometimes. Sometimes it's that little bit of peace of mind that makes things start to get easier. ^_^
Post by: Dr. Hieronymous Alloy on July 24, 2010, 12:58:18 pm
Went ahead and uploaded an actual XML file to dffd for those who can't or don't know how to make XML files.
Find it here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2795 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2795)
Just to be clear -- I just copy/paste this into my stonesense and dFhack directories, over the existing memory.xml files?
Post by: sparr on July 24, 2010, 04:25:10 pm
I managed to make stonesense compile under Linux (Ubuntu 10.04). Unfortunately, the program crashes just after start, complaining about several missing memory definitions ("current_menu_state" is the first).
Some addresses are not defined for any Linux 31.x version (in Memory.xml), some are there for 31.04. The missing addresses seem to be necessary for stonesense - providing fake ones/the ones for 31.04 results in crash. DFHack utilities use just the defined subset of adresses and work as expected.
I'm right there with you. I got dfhack and stonesense compiled, but those missing addresses are stopping me from running stonesense.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 24, 2010, 06:02:18 pm
Went ahead and uploaded an actual XML file to dffd for those who can't or don't know how to make XML files.
Find it here: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2795 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=2795)
Just to be clear -- I just copy/paste this into my stonesense and dFhack directories, over the existing memory.xml files?
Yep, that's all there is to it. That's why I uploaded it. Have fun!
Post by: Valathil on July 25, 2010, 09:59:18 am
That was easy, no new memory locations just a new checksum. :)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Granite on July 25, 2010, 04:48:18 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on July 25, 2010, 08:17:27 pm
Post by: sparr on July 26, 2010, 09:14:25 pm
Code: [Select]
<Address name="current_menu_state">0xffffffff</Address>
<Address name="view_screen">0xffffffff</Address>
<Address name="buildings_vector">0x92eb068</Address> <!-- from sparr -->
<Offset name="building_custom_workshop_type">0x164</Offset> <!-- WRONG! -->
<Address name="custom_workshop_vector">0x93302e8</Address> <!-- from peterix -->
<Offset name="custom_workshop_name">0x4</Offset>
<Offset name="custom_workshop_type">0x8</Offset><!-- from peterix -->I know that most people are running .12 now, so maybe I'll try with that soon, but for now I'm going to keep going on .10 since I've already invested so much time in getting it to work there.
Post by: nbonaparte on July 27, 2010, 07:34:50 pm
Post by: LucasUP on July 27, 2010, 08:10:26 pm
Post by: nbonaparte on July 27, 2010, 09:29:16 pm
Post by: Ladde on July 28, 2010, 02:39:33 pm
When my trade caravan came, the sound for it started loopnig over and over again...
Post by: Granite on July 29, 2010, 10:48:51 am
Is there anyway to turn of looping?Wasn't this supposed to be posted in Soundsense's thread?
When my trade caravan came, the sound for it started loopnig over and over again...
Post by: Rose on July 29, 2010, 11:09:03 am
Post by: Star Guarded on July 29, 2010, 02:58:38 pm
I'm happy to report that I got the crashing bug fixed, so the next version won't have it.hey awesome job :D wooo.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on July 30, 2010, 09:51:42 am
If so; how might I do this?
If not; is it infeasable to implement?
This would allow me to make floor trims for overhangs and balconies.
Code: [Select]
For clarity on what I mean;
This, would look more like this:
┌─┬─┬─┬─┬─┐ ╔═╤═╤═╤═╤═╗
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┘ _______\ ╟─┼─┼─┼─╔═╝
├─┼─┼─┴─┘ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ / ╟─┼─╔═╧═╝
└─┴─┘ ╚═╧═╝
or this:
,┌─┬─┬─┬─┐
├─┼─┼─┼─̗┴─┘
├─┼─̗┴─┴΄
'┴΄(why isnt there a diagonal line letter? I suppose it'll have to do...)
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 10:01:24 am
Post by: Andir on July 30, 2010, 10:03:44 am
Dude, there are two "diagonal line letters". We call them "Slash" and "Backslash". They look like this: / and \Those are special characters reserved for arrows. ;)
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 10:14:26 am
Dude, there are two "diagonal line letters". We call them "Slash" and "Backslash". They look like this: / and \Those are special characters reserved for arrows. ;)
Yeah, I know, I just can't resist an opportunity to be a smartass.
Post by: Rose on July 30, 2010, 10:23:13 am
Can I have a floor tile check adjacent tiles for open space, and pick an appearance based on the result?
If so; how might I do this?
If not; is it infeasable to implement?
This would allow me to make floor trims for overhangs and balconies.Code: [Select]For clarity on what I mean;(why isnt there a diagonal line letter? I suppose it'll have to do...)
This, would look more like this:
┌─┬─┬─┬─┬─┐ ╔═╤═╤═╤═╤═╗
├─┼─┼─┼─┼─┘ _______\ ╟─┼─┼─┼─╔═╝
├─┼─┼─┴─┘ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ ̅ / ╟─┼─╔═╧═╝
└─┴─┘ ╚═╧═╝
or this:
,┌─┬─┬─┬─┐
├─┼─┼─┼─̗┴─┘
├─┼─̗┴─┴΄
'┴΄
this is actually partially implemented. currently, a tile can check for open space on the upper left, upper right, or below, which is used for setting anti-escher borders on tiles.. it shouldn't be hard to extend that to more directions, though it would go a lot faster if you provide sample tiles for testing :P
Post by: Andir on July 30, 2010, 11:53:39 am
...used for setting anti-escher borders on tiles...Anti-Escher: Quick, get a trademark, a patent, and a copyright before that's stolen! :P
Post by: Dark_Tundra on July 30, 2010, 12:47:10 pm
Dude, there are two "diagonal line letters". We call them "Slash" and "Backslash". They look like this: / and \I invite you to use them in my diagram then, show me how a pro does it. :P
... provide sample tiles for testing :PFor only adjacency:
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/detectedge.png)
Spoiler: insane levels of completionism (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on July 30, 2010, 12:52:03 pm
anyhoo, I'll take a look at em.
Post by: Rose on July 30, 2010, 01:11:07 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on July 30, 2010, 01:22:57 pm
Ah well... Next time...
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 01:24:21 pm
Dude, there are two "diagonal line letters". We call them "Slash" and "Backslash". They look like this: / and \I invite you to use them in my diagram then, show me how a pro does it. :P
this is what the tilesheet would look like:See above for how a pro does it.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on July 30, 2010, 03:09:19 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
corners are being difficult, but edges are fine.
Post by: MaximumZero on July 30, 2010, 03:16:17 pm
Post by: SeigeOps on July 30, 2010, 03:17:53 pm
http://pix.sparky-s.ie/65c69.png
corners are being difficult, but edges are fine.
Christ, what a bloodbath. I hope the contaminant spreading bug is fixed eventually.
That said, [Garrus]"Impressive!"[/Garrus].
Post by: Rose on July 30, 2010, 09:07:05 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
right then, I think I got it working.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on July 30, 2010, 11:19:01 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on July 30, 2010, 11:46:23 pm
Post by: Dante on July 30, 2010, 11:48:55 pm
Post by: Dark_Tundra on July 31, 2010, 04:36:21 am
Say, for example, if I wanted non square edges on overhang, but wanted to keep floors next to walls connected?
photoshopped example:
(http://i883.photobucket.com/albums/ac37/Dark_Tundra/overhangexample.png)
I am hoping this all makes sense...
Post by: Rose on July 31, 2010, 04:48:45 am
the way I have it is that you set 6 sets of borders on the tile.
they are set by giving a list of numbers from 1 to 8, or 0. 1 is the tile directly above the current tile, relatiive to the view, anr they go around clockwise.
the first set is a list of sides that must contain at least one wall. so if the set contains the numbers "123" then the tile will show if there's a wall on the to, top-right, or right of the tile. if there's only one wall, the tile will still show, but if the wall is on the left, it won't.
ditto for floors
ditto for open space.
the next set is a list of squares that must NOT contain a wall. if any of the listed squares contain a wall, the tile won't show.
ditto for floors.
ditto again for open space.
this is the XML file for what I showed:
Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<floors file="bordertest.png">>
<!-- construct -->
<floor sheetIndex="0" color="material">
<!-- floor -->
<terrain value="493" />
<!-- stair -->
<terrain value="517" />
<!-- ramp -->
<terrain value="518" />
<!-- fort -->
<terrain value="494" />
<!-- pillar -->
<terrain value="495" />
<!-- wall -->
<terrain value="496" />
<terrain value="497" />
<terrain value="498" />
<terrain value="499" />
<terrain value="500" />
<terrain value="501" />
<terrain value="502" />
<terrain value="503" />
<terrain value="504" />
<terrain value="505" />
<terrain value="506" />
<terrain value="507" />
<terrain value="508" />
<terrain value="509" />
<terrain value="510" />
<terrain value="511" />
<terrain value="512" />
<terrain value="513" />
<terrain value="514" />
<subsprite
sheetIndex="1"
needopen="1"
needfloor="0"
needwall="1"
neednotopen="0"
neednotwall="0"
neednotfloor="82"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="2"
needopen="2"
needfloor="0"
needwall="2"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="3"
needopen="3"
needfloor="0"
needwall="3"
neednotopen="0"
neednotwall="0"
neednotfloor="24"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="4"
needopen="4"
needfloor="0"
needwall="4"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="5"
needopen="5"
needfloor="0"
needwall="5"
neednotopen="0"
neednotwall="0"
neednotfloor="46"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="6"
needopen="6"
needfloor="0"
needwall="6"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="7"
needopen="7"
needfloor="0"
needwall="7"
neednotopen="0"
neednotwall="0"
neednotfloor="68"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="8"
needopen="8"
needfloor="0"
needwall="8"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="1"
needopen="1"
needfloor="82"
needwall="1"
neednotopen="82"
neednotwall="82"
neednotfloor="1"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="3"
needopen="3"
needfloor="24"
needwall="3"
neednotopen="24"
neednotwall="24"
neednotfloor="3"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="5"
needopen="5"
needfloor="46"
needwall="5"
neednotopen="46"
neednotwall="46"
neednotfloor="5"
/>
<subsprite
sheetIndex="7"
needopen="7"
needfloor="68"
needwall="7"
neednotopen="68"
neednotwall="68"
neednotfloor="7"
/>
</floor>
</floors>
Post by: Dark_Tundra on July 31, 2010, 05:33:24 am
I was worried I was getting my thoughts out in a jumble again, glad to hear it made enough sense.
This should help with some of the looks I'm trying to get going.
Post by: kokoszken on July 31, 2010, 08:17:31 am
I haven't played DF in a year or so and I see that a lot has changed.
I really want to use Stonesense out of curiousity, but I have some problem with it.
I'm running DF 0.31.12 version, but I've 'upgraded' stonesense so it will work with this one (by downloading "memory" fix someone posted here).
Still, all I got is blank screen after pressing F9 and seeing "Connecting to DF" for a brief moment.
How I can repair it?
Here is a screenshot of my problem
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on July 31, 2010, 08:22:32 am
Post by: Jadael on July 31, 2010, 10:35:53 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 01, 2010, 05:24:51 am
They are all smoothed pillars, but I'm stuck working out how they are different.
terrain value= 81 appears to be plain layer stone. (as far as I can tell)
Post by: kokoszken on August 01, 2010, 05:58:54 am
try changing the graphics to directx in the init.txt
yeah, it helped.
thanks for advice.
Post by: eataTREE on August 01, 2010, 08:12:13 pm
(Edit: This is a fairly normal Ubuntu Lucid 64-bit machine. Do I need to build stonesense as a 32-bit binary?)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 01, 2010, 10:54:21 pm
What is the difference between terrain value= 79, terrain value= 81, and terrain value= 82?
They are all smoothed pillars, but I'm stuck working out how they are different.
terrain value= 81 appears to be plain layer stone. (as far as I can tell)
also how do I differenciate between gems and other features?
Post by: Rose on August 01, 2010, 11:02:04 pm
Spoiler: Warning, really long list of all tiletypes in DF (click to show/hide)
the other way of differentiating gems is to specify the materials.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 02, 2010, 12:38:08 am
the other way of differentiating gems is to specify the materials.
Got it, thanks.
I am doubtful but... Is there any way for stonesense to work out; what base stone a vein came from, after it has been mined out? (Or more precicely, does DF even keep track?)
Post by: Rose on August 02, 2010, 12:54:18 am
only when it's still in the wall.
Post by: peterix on August 02, 2010, 03:39:14 am
Yes, as long as you are talking about the tiles, and not some random item stone.the other way of differentiating gems is to specify the materials.
Got it, thanks.
I am doubtful but... Is there any way for stonesense to work out; what base stone a vein came from, after it has been mined out? (Or more precicely, does DF even keep track?)
Every single tile has a base layer stone determined by depth under ground and the biome.
Tiles have base materials determined by the tile type number:
Ordinary stone/soil -- uses the geology.
Obsidian -- there are special obsidian tiles for cast obsidian.
Ice -- seemingly obvious, but ice being thawable, the original tile type is preserved in a special structure I call the 'ice vein'. So, you can see what was there before the ice (and having transparent/translucent ice is possible).
Mineral veins -- have a special tile type, combined with special mineral vein objects. Again, it is possible to know what base layer it is overriding. 40d even had multiple mineral veins on a single tile. 31.xx seems to limit that stuff to one mineral vein type per tile to conserve CPU resources.
Feature stone -- this is another set of special tile types, this time combined with local and global features (mostly used for adamantine veins and hell).
Special tiles -- this includes ash, fire, all the 16 types of grass, semi-molten rock (which is actually very, very cold), that blue glowing floor thing and so on.
So, those can be combined just about any way you like... and hell being made out of elephant liver tissue isn't impossible :P ... or making 100z above-ground spires out of star ruby by hacking adamantine veins.
Post by: RaidSoft on August 02, 2010, 04:55:08 am
edit: nvm I just failed, I downloaded the memory xml and now it's working (that should probably be placed in a more visible location though imo)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 02, 2010, 05:45:12 am
nope.I had thought as much... It is unfortunate...
only when it's still in the wall.
Yes, as long as you are talking about the tiles, and not some random item stone.This information is useful, thanks.
Every single tile has a base layer stone determined by depth under ground and the biome.
Tiles have base materials determined by the tile type number:
Ordinary stone/soil -- uses the geology.
Obsidian -- there are special obsidian tiles for cast obsidian.
Ice -- seemingly obvious, but ice being thawable, the original tile type is preserved in a special structure I call the 'ice vein'. So, you can see what was there before the ice (and having transparent/translucent ice is possible).
Mineral veins -- have a special tile type, combined with special mineral vein objects. Again, it is possible to know what base layer it is overriding. 40d even had multiple mineral veins on a single tile. 31.xx seems to limit that stuff to one mineral vein type per tile to conserve CPU resources.
Feature stone -- this is another set of special tile types, this time combined with local and global features (mostly used for adamantine veins and hell).
Special tiles -- this includes ash, fire, all the 16 types of grass, semi-molten rock (which is actually very, very cold), that blue glowing floor thing and so on.
So, those can be combined just about any way you like... and hell being made out of elephant liver tissue isn't impossible :P ... or making 100z above-ground spires out of star ruby by hacking adamantine veins.
Post by: Rose on August 02, 2010, 08:19:14 am
Spoiler: Standard (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: all walls chopped in half (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: anything in front of a creature is chopped (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: both buildings and creatures are revealed (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: just buildings are revealed. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Andir on August 02, 2010, 08:27:33 am
Post by: Rose on August 02, 2010, 08:32:23 am
Post by: Shaio on August 02, 2010, 09:13:45 am
Post by: MaximumZero on August 02, 2010, 11:25:38 am
try changing the graphics to directx in the init.txt
yeah, it helped.
thanks for advice.
See, I thought that problem was just me being retarded. Glad to know it wasn't just me.
Also, Japa==Awesome.
Post by: Star Guarded on August 02, 2010, 12:21:41 pm
Post by: johnny_cat on August 02, 2010, 05:25:37 pm
Can somebody here tell me what I can do to fix this?
Post by: Andir on August 02, 2010, 06:15:45 pm
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 03, 2010, 05:23:58 am
Post by: Rose on August 03, 2010, 05:33:12 am
you can even use it for creatures if you want.
Post by: Rose on August 03, 2010, 08:41:23 am
http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Sprite%20Guide.txt (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Sprite%20Guide.txt)
have fun.
Post by: Kanye west on August 03, 2010, 01:13:14 pm
When I launch it it says connecting to df... and then it goes back to starting screen for a second and then it go back to the connecting to df... screen
If someone could help !
Post by: Andir on August 03, 2010, 01:20:27 pm
Post by: Retro on August 03, 2010, 01:30:57 pm
I am sorry ,I may look stupid a bit ,ive did a search and all I found was this post http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=45038.15 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=45038.15) and ive read pretty much the first 30 pages of the topic the thing is : I cant make stonesense work.
When I launch it it says connecting to df... and then it goes back to starting screen for a second and then it go back to the connecting to df... screen
If someone could help !
Imma let you finish, but the problem you're having is that the version of Stonesense you're using doesn't support your version of DF - I'm guessing you're trying to run the OP's Stonesense link on 31.12? Try using Andir's link - jonask84 hasn't been hanging around to keep the first post updated.
Post by: Kanye west on August 03, 2010, 02:20:48 pm
Thank you !
Post by: devek on August 03, 2010, 02:43:46 pm
Post by: Truean on August 03, 2010, 04:00:07 pm
Quote
The real Kanye West only types in all caps.
Doesn't he also interrupt everything to tell you how something else he likes is the greatest?
Post by: Greiger on August 03, 2010, 04:39:57 pm
I'm seeing all these screenshots of stonesense maps with blood and the new floor tile edges and such. Yet the version I have does not appear to have it. And the only version I seem to be able to turn up on the google page is Stonesense Slate RC2 July 7th, which is the version I am already using.
Is there some hidden download someplace I'm missing? Are these just screenies of the current version in development?
P.S. The day night cycle feature seems to have gotten borked in .12 with my version. At 50 FPS it switches between day and night sporadically, with the occasional sunset/rise mixed in every tick.
Post by: Ratbert_CP on August 03, 2010, 04:41:28 pm
Ok another silly question I bet, but I probably missed something really obvious.
I'm seeing all these screenshots of stonesense maps with blood and the new floor tile edges and such. Yet the version I have does not appear to have it. And the only version I seem to be able to turn up on the google page is Stonesense Slate RC2 July 7th, which is the version I am already using.
likely, the screenshots you've seen are Japa's. As the most active developer, he's got the most cutting-edge build. It'll be out. Sometime. :)
Post by: Retro on August 03, 2010, 04:42:51 pm
Are these just screenies of the current version in development?
Bingo! All the "oh shit blood everywhere" screenies have been posted by Japa, who has been casually working on a new big release whereas the version updates have just been the same features but tweaked to work for each 0.31 release.
If I recall correctly, that is. No lynching if I'm wrong!
Post by: Solifuge on August 03, 2010, 04:43:18 pm
Post by: Greiger on August 03, 2010, 04:49:19 pm
I'll enjoy my 100% precious metal road being completely obscured by the 20 different kinds of blood that covers every tile of the surface like the coastline of Louisiana. :D
Post by: Rose on August 03, 2010, 08:36:58 pm
it's not that hard to get a hold of them, if you don't mind a bit of compiling, or you make a name for yourself as a sprite god, in which case I may send you a copy.
Post by: Maxxeh on August 04, 2010, 07:53:22 am
Post by: Rose on August 04, 2010, 08:04:34 am
Post by: MaximumZero on August 04, 2010, 11:47:54 am
Post by: Greiger on August 04, 2010, 11:53:13 am
Post by: Rose on August 04, 2010, 11:58:55 am
Post by: Greiger on August 04, 2010, 12:11:28 pm
Post by: Star Guarded on August 04, 2010, 01:11:35 pm
Post by: Greiger on August 04, 2010, 01:51:29 pm
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp103/Greiger2/CoffinyTraction.png)
Yes it is based off of the standard coffin. I mean really, aren't traction benches and coffins one and the same in DF?
I also have some crappy upright spikes I made months ago incase stonesense can tell the difference between ones that are deployed and undeployed.
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp103/Greiger2/Spikes_test.png)
Behold and enjoy your eyes bleeding from my subpar pixel art.
Post by: legox97 on August 04, 2010, 06:32:40 pm
Post by: devek on August 04, 2010, 06:37:27 pm
Post by: legox97 on August 04, 2010, 07:30:03 pm
Post by: devek on August 04, 2010, 08:08:29 pm
Post by: legox97 on August 04, 2010, 10:42:44 pm
Post by: legox97 on August 04, 2010, 10:57:45 pm
Post by: Rose on August 04, 2010, 11:00:34 pm
search back a few pages for one.
Post by: legox97 on August 05, 2010, 12:28:10 am
EDIT: (ok, how long does it take to load ive been waiting 10 minutes or so and it hasnt done anything except say connecting to Df like it was before i downloaded the memory thing.)[Then it crashes.]
Post by: Rose on August 05, 2010, 12:35:18 am
Post by: legox97 on August 05, 2010, 12:45:11 am
Post by: legox97 on August 05, 2010, 02:08:47 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 05, 2010, 04:05:37 am
Post by: Rose on August 05, 2010, 04:11:42 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bottom row is highlights
Post by: sartravut on August 05, 2010, 07:15:51 am
Post by: legox97 on August 05, 2010, 11:54:02 am
Post by: Rose on August 05, 2010, 11:55:24 am
ever.
Post by: Zulithe on August 05, 2010, 12:03:03 pm
that will never happen.Just for that, I hope someone proves you wrong!
ever.
I really do D:
Please? Someone?
Post by: Rose on August 05, 2010, 12:13:46 pm
Post by: Andir on August 05, 2010, 12:38:04 pm
Post by: Reese on August 05, 2010, 01:29:28 pm
that would require me, or somebody else, to write an entire DF-like game from scratch. so no, not even when satan's making snow angels.
What about enabling it to read a DF save file when DF is not running, or to read a static file (say one created by the user, or a snapshot of a fort saved by Stone Sense while reading an active fort)
Post by: devek on August 05, 2010, 01:34:00 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on August 05, 2010, 03:41:31 pm
Post by: winner on August 05, 2010, 05:19:00 pm
the file says
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
Post by: legox97 on August 06, 2010, 12:34:19 am
Post by: Zulithe on August 06, 2010, 12:59:27 am
I'm using Lazy Newb Pack [0.31.12] [V4.2], Windows 7 64bit, ATI 4890 GPU + 10.7 drivers. I'd think OpenGL wouldn't be a problem for this setup?
Post by: Rose on August 06, 2010, 01:00:43 am
Post by: Zulithe on August 06, 2010, 01:04:59 am
Post by: Innominate on August 06, 2010, 05:32:32 am
Post by: Bookdust on August 06, 2010, 05:39:56 am
Hi I'm Bookdust, I'm new. I've been playing DF for a couple of days and I'm starting to get the hang of it. I found Stonesense while poking around the Wiki and thought it might come in handy. Only problem is I don't know how to install it. I'd be grateful for any help you could provide me in making it work.
Thank you ahead of time and again sorry for being a stupid newb.
Post by: Rose on August 06, 2010, 05:49:31 am
Post by: Bookdust on August 06, 2010, 06:02:09 am
Post by: MaDeR Levap on August 06, 2010, 07:59:37 am
Thank you. Hopefully this worksYou can always use lazy newb pack. Everything was already done for player - just download and uncompress.
Post by: MeruFM on August 07, 2010, 04:10:32 am
Screenshot
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
edit:
Using Windows 7 64bit
Post by: sevenheadedweasel on August 07, 2010, 08:30:14 am
I'm getting a weird error "Cannot Load Image: stonesense.png". I can clearly see stonesense.png below the executable. Already tried admin mode and compatibility modes.
I am getting the same error msg using windows 7 32 bit Radeon HD4670. Updated drivers, etc no go. Also tried admin and compatibility. I changed to DIRECTX in init file, which allows it to load but it sits at "connecting to DF" screen and does nothing, same for software mode. up until most recent DF/Stonesense release worked just fine with same setup.
Post by: Grand_Marquis on August 08, 2010, 02:24:12 am
Post by: Rose on August 08, 2010, 02:34:01 am
Post by: Grand_Marquis on August 08, 2010, 03:36:57 am
I suppose this is another good reason to get Bootcamp up and running on my machine :p
Post by: ohID on August 08, 2010, 12:27:53 pm
Post by: nbonaparte on August 08, 2010, 12:44:12 pm
I read through the several first pages and last pages...can you play DF through this fully yet? Sorry if that's been asked 100 times. :/nope, it's a viewer only. And it's been asked on this page, no less.
Post by: s20dan on August 08, 2010, 12:57:40 pm
Post by: Star Guarded on August 08, 2010, 02:45:36 pm
Dang. I'm rubbish at coding, I'd only be of use in an art-related capacity.It's really easy to do. I run bootcamp on my MBP. It's basically like a three step process.
I suppose this is another good reason to get Bootcamp up and running on my machine :p
Post by: kultrva on August 08, 2010, 05:59:16 pm
Can anybody help me out with this? I'm using the versions of DF and Stonesense included in the LazyNewbPack[0.31.12][V4.2].
Thanks.
Post by: Rose on August 08, 2010, 07:54:30 pm
Can Stonesense take a screenshot of the entire site yet?
yes. ctrl+F5
Post by: Star Guarded on August 08, 2010, 10:07:26 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And yes I have a fortress open and running and I'm playing the game.
Post by: Rose on August 08, 2010, 10:16:52 pm
Post by: Star Guarded on August 08, 2010, 10:18:46 pm
not sure why that's happening, but there's a new version coming out soon, so with any luck it'll be more stable.sweet. good to hear it's coming out soon. I hope it works too. thanks.
Post by: Star Guarded on August 08, 2010, 11:10:40 pm
Post by: eataTREE on August 08, 2010, 11:16:56 pm
Post by: Rose on August 09, 2010, 12:03:39 am
Post by: Andir on August 09, 2010, 07:49:49 am
edit: figured it outAwesome, thanks for sharing for anyone else that may be having that problem.
Post by: Star Guarded on August 09, 2010, 11:56:39 am
Sorry, I was pretty tired and went to bed right after I edited the post.edit: figured it outAwesome, thanks for sharing for anyone else that may be having that problem.
It was a problem with Dwarf Fortress, not Stonesense. I had a war animal from a previous version that isn't usually trainable. Even though I had edited the raws to make the animal trainable again before I updated the save game, the game didn't like this (it would crash whenever I viewed its status) and whenever Stonesense tried to render it, it crashed.
Post by: Grif on August 09, 2010, 12:08:33 pm
Quote
yes. ctrl+F5
But where to? I've been searching the init file for the location of the screenshots and everywhere else basically and I can't find where it is saving them to...
Looking thru the log I found this though:
"Failed to take large screenshot. try using software mode"
Post by: jargo on August 09, 2010, 01:56:37 pm
II'm getting a weird error "Cannot Load Image: stonesense.png". I can clearly see stonesense.png below the executable. Already tried admin mode and compatibility modes.
I am getting the same error msg using windows 7 32 bit Radeon HD4670. Updated drivers, etc no go. Also tried admin and compatibility. I changed to DIRECTX in init file, which allows it to load but it sits at "connecting to DF" screen and does nothing, same for software mode. up until most recent DF/Stonesense release worked just fine with same setup.
I also got the same error. I have win 7 64 bit and ati radeon 5850
Post by: Jayce on August 09, 2010, 02:55:09 pm
Arts good i like the water transparancy,but the mountain/hillsides look too jagged and sharp edged.
Post by: Cruxador on August 09, 2010, 04:26:33 pm
If only you could play the game in this mode without the tiresome swapping back and forth,i currently only use this to view my fortress now and then in all its glory.Do what I do - use two monitors.
Post by: FinalSin on August 10, 2010, 09:43:15 am
Post by: dennislp3 on August 10, 2010, 09:45:15 am
Post by: Greiger on August 10, 2010, 09:47:47 am
Post by: Internet Kraken on August 10, 2010, 09:47:34 pm
Post by: Rose on August 10, 2010, 10:03:19 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on August 10, 2010, 10:14:41 pm
3. The 2D view. If you could play from the Stonesense window it would have been awesome.
I'm starting to get the impression that there may be a large number of people out there who think that Stonesense is made by Toady, or something. That's probably not helped by the Lazy Newb Pack. I'm not saying that this is the dev's fault, or that it's the LNP's fault, or that the LNP is bad or anything - It's just that this is occurring.
Post by: Internet Kraken on August 10, 2010, 10:40:57 pm
did you update the memory.xml? if not, you need to do that. or yo can look up the lazy newb pack, which includes it.
Oh. How exactly do you do that?
Post by: dennislp3 on August 10, 2010, 11:45:37 pm
I think the developers should have this brought to their attention. From the "What turns you off about DF?" thread:3. The 2D view. If you could play from the Stonesense window it would have been awesome.
I'm starting to get the impression that there may be a large number of people out there who think that Stonesense is made by Toady, or something. That's probably not helped by the Lazy Newb Pack. I'm not saying that this is the dev's fault, or that it's the LNP's fault, or that the LNP is bad or anything - It's just that this is occurring.
This has been a problem of sorts from the start of graphic packs...let alone visualizers....and its not so much a problem as it is misinformation and people not paying attention. For now it will be fine....when money starts getting diverted from toady...then we have an issue
Post by: Andir on August 10, 2010, 11:53:10 pm
First you search this thread for memory.xml ... then you read.did you update the memory.xml? if not, you need to do that. or yo can look up the lazy newb pack, which includes it.
Oh. How exactly do you do that?
Post by: Solifuge on August 11, 2010, 05:09:23 am
Was studying some old jRPGs, and I decided to broach the subject of water display models. We're currently using model a) (Alpha Blending), but I'm not terribly happy with it, and I've been brainstorming alternatives that don't create weird edge transparency artifacts. I'm partial to model d) myself, but the reflections would require a bit of programming magic to render, including palette-swapping, and a V-shaped skew. Reflected trees and such would look really sharp on a riverbank, but since it only shows what's above the water rather than what's below it, it doesn't work so well for figuring out underwater constructions. Model b) is also pretty sharp, and is close to the existing code, which is a plus.
I suppose that when the camera was above the water surface, it could display as the reflective model d), but when it went under the surface it could switch to a model b) and show the aquatic landscape. Might be more hassle than it's worth, though. I'll need to think some more on this.
Post by: Footkerchief on August 11, 2010, 05:47:50 am
Water transparency is important, IMHO. One of Stonesense's strengths is that it lets you see multiple Z-levels at once, and that should hold true underwater as well.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 11, 2010, 08:54:38 am
Also d) looks as to make some awesome smooth Ice floors.
EDIT: and I eagerly await the new release
Spoiler: trying out new looks (click to show/hide)
Post by: Solifuge on August 11, 2010, 11:33:03 am
Post by: Rose on August 11, 2010, 11:35:24 am
And Dark_Tundra, that's way cool.
Post by: Solifuge on August 11, 2010, 01:32:15 pm
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a226/Figgin/Dwarf Fortress/WaterPseudoDemo.png)
A. is more or less the current system, but to help keep some of the weird transparency effects down, the engine would overlap water tiles like it does with non-transparent tiles and then alpha-blend them as one solid piece. This would keep the water from multiplying with itself, and creating the ugly water fadeout that happens on the edges of tiles.
B. creates the illusion of transparency, by displaying all tiles with edges under the water in a blue-shifted tone, as an overlay that displays on top of the water tiles. The overlay (all the tiles in blue-green), rather than the water, would then get a bit of alpha transparency. This creates a lot of subtle shades of blue on the surfaces, and keeps submerged tiles legible... and I daresay it looks really sharp. However, an elegant solution would need to be found for tiles only partially filled with water... perhaps the engine could create a mask to erase parts of the blue-shifted overlay tile, to match whatever is exposed above? Needs more brainstorming.
C. just for the sake of demonstrating the principle, a similar technique to B. could be used to create a reflective overlay on the surface of water. This could be displayed over other models, but care would need to be taken that the tiles don't get too complicated. Though looking pretty is always nice, making the map easily understandable is the first goal of a graphical display.
Post by: MaximumZero on August 11, 2010, 02:55:25 pm
Post by: MaDeR Levap on August 11, 2010, 06:47:04 pm
Post by: Innominate on August 12, 2010, 01:39:45 am
The problem with C is three-fold: firstly that it looks very busy visually, secondly that it obscures the underwater geometry, and thirdly that doing decent reflections is incredibly difficult. The first point is kind of the clincher, because the third has some solutions. Given we have a strict isometric perspective, we can work on a simplified reflection scheme. About the only viable option is the one you have, a "first layer only" reflection.The problem is that it won't work well with constructions along the side that are more than one tile tall. And trying to have a proper reflection system ends up with the problem that it is O(n2) complexity (1 time each for n water tiles, searching n additional tiles for a reflection every time), as well as complications with draw order, and the need to have extra sprites for how each reflection looks. It's faster and easier to do reflections with an isometric engine than a 3D one, but it's still a bitch to do (partly because it can't be done easily on the graphics card).
Post by: strich on August 12, 2010, 05:13:53 am
Post by: dyze on August 12, 2010, 02:44:51 pm
Post by: Rose on August 12, 2010, 05:29:16 pm
Trying to compile Stonesense with VS2008 under Win7 64bit. Compiles fine, but the resulting executable crashes on load - It gets to the title screen. Is there some magic that needs to be done here that isn't obvious in the readme's?
make sure your doing a release build, and also make sure your using the project file, rather than Cmake
Post by: strich on August 12, 2010, 06:32:30 pm
Trying to compile Stonesense with VS2008 under Win7 64bit. Compiles fine, but the resulting executable crashes on load - It gets to the title screen. Is there some magic that needs to be done here that isn't obvious in the readme's?
make sure your doing a release build, and also make sure your using the project file, rather than Cmake
Aye, I did use the release build and I was using the project file. It would just crash. Are you running the same environment as myself Japa?
Post by: Rose on August 12, 2010, 06:46:39 pm
Post by: strich on August 12, 2010, 07:16:57 pm
I'm running MSVC 2005, so that could be it.mmm, it could be. However it is unlikely as the compiler should complain if anything is wrong. Do you remember any specific config's you had to modify in the release build project? Maybe something hasn't been copied over to the VS08 project properly.
Post by: Jayce on August 12, 2010, 09:49:18 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on August 12, 2010, 09:59:43 pm
Need the toad to unoffically merge this or get someone else to be able to play it in this mode.You already posted that a few days ago (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1471181#msg1471181). While I personally think that having an interface API would be great, Toady has made it pretty clear that's not going to happen, at least not in the near future.
I'd suggest just getting used to having both open at once. Two monitors or one larger one (easily < $200 for a 24" widescreen if you look) are your friend.
Alternitively, track down an application that can force Stonesense to the foreground while keeping input focus on the DF window. Should be doable, you'll just have to do without the menus or be careful not to cover them.
Post by: strich on August 12, 2010, 10:12:23 pm
On that, has anyone actually tried building the current source? Maybe its F'ed.
Post by: Valathil on August 12, 2010, 11:09:49 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on August 12, 2010, 11:17:39 pm
The problem with C is three-fold: firstly that it looks very busy visually, secondly that it obscures the underwater geometry, and thirdly that doing decent reflections is incredibly difficult.
Yep. B is gorgeous.
Post by: Greiger on August 12, 2010, 11:39:46 pm
Also doesn't A (I assume it's the current method) enable the fancy underwatery look that we currently have when the camera is under the surface? Seems to me that B would be slightly better looking from the surface, but if B looks anything like that image without the water surface when the camera is underwater I'd say A is better.
Post by: Shagomir on August 13, 2010, 06:03:54 am
II'm getting a weird error "Cannot Load Image: stonesense.png". I can clearly see stonesense.png below the executable. Already tried admin mode and compatibility modes.
I am getting the same error msg using windows 7 32 bit Radeon HD4670. Updated drivers, etc no go. Also tried admin and compatibility. I changed to DIRECTX in init file, which allows it to load but it sits at "connecting to DF" screen and does nothing, same for software mode. up until most recent DF/Stonesense release worked just fine with same setup.
I also got the same error. I have win 7 64 bit and ati radeon 5850
This. Me too. Windows 7 64 bit with a Radeon HD5770
Post by: Rose on August 13, 2010, 08:09:06 am
Post by: revereddesecration on August 13, 2010, 09:10:02 pm
NVOGLDC invisible: Stonesense.exe - Application Error
The instruction at "0x69b1020c" referenced memory at "0x00000328". The memory could not be "read".
What now?
Post by: Deon on August 13, 2010, 09:17:50 pm
Post by: Rose on August 13, 2010, 09:29:05 pm
Post by: Deon on August 13, 2010, 09:43:11 pm
Post by: Rose on August 13, 2010, 09:44:23 pm
Post by: Deon on August 13, 2010, 09:47:37 pm
Post by: Rose on August 13, 2010, 09:50:13 pm
I do know that you ahve to ling DFhack and Alegro 4.9.21
Post by: Deon on August 13, 2010, 09:51:41 pm
Anyway, I'd better try to make it first, and ask only if it fails. Sorry for random questions :).
Post by: Rose on August 13, 2010, 09:53:25 pm
Post by: Valathil on August 14, 2010, 12:46:56 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS: Yeah it still renders tiles that are 2 or more levels below something that obscures it. But in my opinion that isn't such a big performance hit because it only happens when you have hidden tiles disabled and only happens in forts that have mostly empty z-levels. So yeah.
Post by: Rose on August 14, 2010, 01:57:00 am
Post by: Valathil on August 14, 2010, 02:14:01 am
Post by: Kravick on August 14, 2010, 04:20:17 am
okay, ATI people, your only hope is using Directx, it seems.
Yep, that fixed it. I have an ATI HD 5750 and was running into the same stonesense cannot load image problem. After changing it to directx it works.
Post by: Retro on August 14, 2010, 04:24:11 am
Post by: Chthon on August 15, 2010, 04:42:52 am
Post by: Rose on August 15, 2010, 04:54:37 am
http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml
you should overwrite what's there
Post by: Jiri Petru on August 15, 2010, 06:00:28 am
Post by: Rose on August 15, 2010, 06:05:10 am
Post by: Urist McNewb on August 15, 2010, 03:08:48 pm
Post by: Reese on August 15, 2010, 07:47:03 pm
question, which one will cause an additive darkening effect through deeper water? I think it would look cool if deeper water will appear darker through multiple water layers.
Post by: Innominate on August 15, 2010, 11:05:14 pm
at the new water display ideas... I like a and b, can't really decide which I like better...Currently I think neither would. A darken-with-depth effect is reasonably easy to code, but letting people customise the behaviour makes things tricky, and it is necessarily slower. I seem to recall one of the devs mentioning simulating volumetric depth effects, but I could be completely off.
question, which one will cause an additive darkening effect through deeper water? I think it would look cool if deeper water will appear darker through multiple water layers.
Post by: Rose on August 15, 2010, 11:14:48 pm
Post by: Raufgar on August 16, 2010, 04:05:24 am
Yes, so I just read through 254 pages of Stonesence goodness. Just wanted to say keep up the good work Japa & Solifuge !! Hopefully Jonask & Kaypy will be back for some supportive words soon (and a helping hand at bringing the new version to fruition ;P)
Post by: jonask84 on August 16, 2010, 05:36:25 am
Japa and I are in constant contact about where to take the next release, and he's the one doing the active development atm. I mostly just answer emails ;) The code is in very capable hands with him, and remember you can always contact me directly if there's anything urgent.
Cheers guys :)
P.S. Solifuge, I love the stuff you've been showing us. We're trying to come up with some CPU friendly ways of implementing them. If only i was a bit more clever :p
Post by: Supersquee on August 16, 2010, 12:44:56 pm
It's whole letters that are gone, and while I can make sense of a few of the words I can't read all of them which obviously creates a problem, any ideas?
Post by: Zaratustra on August 16, 2010, 08:29:55 pm
I think the developers should have this brought to their attention. From the "What turns you off about DF?" thread:3. The 2D view. If you could play from the Stonesense window it would have been awesome.
I'm starting to get the impression that there may be a large number of people out there who think that Stonesense is made by Toady, or something. That's probably not helped by the Lazy Newb Pack. I'm not saying that this is the dev's fault, or that it's the LNP's fault, or that the LNP is bad or anything - It's just that this is occurring.
This has been a problem of sorts from the start of graphic packs...let alone visualizers....and its not so much a problem as it is misinformation and people not paying attention. For now it will be fine....when money starts getting diverted from toady...then we have an issue
A crazy idea. Could Stonesense -send- keyboard and mouse events to Dwarf Fortress? If it could, it could serve as a general graphical wrapper for it.
Post by: Trigonous on August 16, 2010, 08:34:33 pm
Post by: LucasUP on August 16, 2010, 10:10:33 pm
I think the developers should have this brought to their attention. From the "What turns you off about DF?" thread:3. The 2D view. If you could play from the Stonesense window it would have been awesome.
I'm starting to get the impression that there may be a large number of people out there who think that Stonesense is made by Toady, or something. That's probably not helped by the Lazy Newb Pack. I'm not saying that this is the dev's fault, or that it's the LNP's fault, or that the LNP is bad or anything - It's just that this is occurring.
This has been a problem of sorts from the start of graphic packs...let alone visualizers....and its not so much a problem as it is misinformation and people not paying attention. For now it will be fine....when money starts getting diverted from toady...then we have an issue
Misinformation is a bit of a concern of mine as well. "king of the underworld" clarified that he knew that stonesense was separate, and I haven't seen anyone else confused about it though. I don't really don't get "large number of people", but I might try tweaking my own pack to clarify things a bit. Still, you can only have so many blinking red bold "READ THIS"s. Putting a disclaimer in utilities themselves might be a good idea though.
Post by: Raufgar on August 16, 2010, 10:24:09 pm
I think the developers should have this brought to their attention. From the "What turns you off about DF?" thread:3. The 2D view. If you could play from the Stonesense window it would have been awesome.
I'm starting to get the impression that there may be a large number of people out there who think that Stonesense is made by Toady, or something. That's probably not helped by the Lazy Newb Pack. I'm not saying that this is the dev's fault, or that it's the LNP's fault, or that the LNP is bad or anything - It's just that this is occurring.
This has been a problem of sorts from the start of graphic packs...let alone visualizers....and its not so much a problem as it is misinformation and people not paying attention. For now it will be fine....when money starts getting diverted from toady...then we have an issue
Misinformation is a bit of a concern of mine as well. "king of the underworld" clarified that he knew that stonesense was separate, and I haven't seen anyone else confused about it though. I don't really don't get "large number of people", but I might try tweaking my own pack to clarify things a bit. Still, you can only have so many blinking red bold "READ THIS"s. Putting a disclaimer in utilities themselves might be a good idea though.
Indeed, especially since many new players use LNP or Stonesence right from the start (and will likely continue to do so), a disclaimer of some sort should be placed informing people that a particular add-on or download pack is only possible due to:
1) The super awesome game Toady is making;
2) How awesome Toady is for making DF free for us to partake (on the Fruit of Power);
3) The awesomeness of the add-on developers to keep DF and their add-on seperate (and more power to Toady);
4) The fact that this awesomeness is only possible if Toady doesn't get pressured to keep in pace with add-ons.
<...too much awesome>
Post by: Shagomir on August 16, 2010, 11:37:13 pm
I found someone with the same problem as me 50 or so pages back but not a fix, not sure if it is fixable or whether I missed the explanation or what, but when I start up Stonesense a number of the letters are missing in a seemingly random order. Though the same each time it seems.
It's whole letters that are gone, and while I can make sense of a few of the words I can't read all of them which obviously creates a problem, any ideas?
Try a different renderer in the Init file?
Post by: Retro on August 16, 2010, 11:43:49 pm
A crazy idea. Could Stonesense -send- keyboard and mouse events to Dwarf Fortress? If it could, it could serve as a general graphical wrapper for it.
To summarize about half of this entire thread: 1. yes, it hypothetically could; 2. no, this will not happen.
Post by: strich on August 17, 2010, 01:36:13 am
Thanks.
Post by: Rose on August 17, 2010, 02:00:23 am
or we could have a chat anytime after 6pm IST
Post by: strich on August 17, 2010, 02:20:51 am
your best bet is studying the DFhack examples. it took me quite a few months be become familiar with the code.Aye I've been browsing over the examples as much as I can, as well as Stonesense. I'm learning, but its as you said, slow. 6pm IST is midnight for me unfortunately. Do you have a preferred email/thread I could ask you specific questions about? I don't think I should be derailing the Stonesense thread with programming talk.
or we could have a chat anytime after 6pm IST
Post by: Lord Braindead on August 17, 2010, 06:24:53 am
Post by: Zaratustra on August 17, 2010, 02:02:03 pm
Post by: Valathil on August 17, 2010, 03:04:08 pm
Post by: strich on August 17, 2010, 04:29:02 pm
Stealing money? Please. If anything, you're making DF accessible to people that would never play it otherwise.So you're saying that the distributors of food throughout the world should get all the customers' money whilst the manufacturer gets nothing?
Quote
@DJDD Use a IDE with "Go to Definition/Reference" and when you dont know what a function does read its definition that should suffice to get to know the source code in short order.Aye I use Visual Studio - Its just a real pain trying to understand someone elses code. Luckily Japa has been kind enough to lend a hand outside of the thread to get me started. :)
Post by: Andir on August 17, 2010, 05:52:59 pm
That's a terrible analogy. It's more like distributors are giving away food that they got from Kellogg and telling everyone they give food to: "Kellogg graciously donated this food, please donate to Kellogg."Stealing money? Please. If anything, you're making DF accessible to people that would never play it otherwise.So you're saying that the distributors of food throughout the world should get all the customers' money whilst the manufacturer gets nothing?
Post by: strich on August 17, 2010, 08:05:03 pm
No, thats what Stonesense SHOULD be doing - That message and/or donate button isn't anywhere to be seen on the Stonesense splash screen AFAIK.That's a terrible analogy. It's more like distributors are giving away food that they got from Kellogg and telling everyone they give food to: "Kellogg graciously donated this food, please donate to Kellogg."Stealing money? Please. If anything, you're making DF accessible to people that would never play it otherwise.So you're saying that the distributors of food throughout the world should get all the customers' money whilst the manufacturer gets nothing?
Post by: devek on August 17, 2010, 08:16:56 pm
No, thats what Stonesense SHOULD be doing - That message and/or donate button isn't anywhere to be seen on the Stonesense splash screen AFAIK.That's a terrible analogy. It's more like distributors are giving away food that they got from Kellogg and telling everyone they give food to: "Kellogg graciously donated this food, please donate to Kellogg."Stealing money? Please. If anything, you're making DF accessible to people that would never play it otherwise.So you're saying that the distributors of food throughout the world should get all the customers' money whilst the manufacturer gets nothing?
Why should stonesense tell everyone to donate to Kellogg? I'm sure they make enough money already. :P
Post by: strich on August 17, 2010, 08:31:14 pm
Post by: jonask84 on August 18, 2010, 08:55:08 am
No, thats what Stonesense SHOULD be doing - That message and/or donate button isn't anywhere to be seen on the Stonesense splash screen AFAIK.That's a terrible analogy. It's more like distributors are giving away food that they got from Kellogg and telling everyone they give food to: "Kellogg graciously donated this food, please donate to Kellogg."Stealing money? Please. If anything, you're making DF accessible to people that would never play it otherwise.So you're saying that the distributors of food throughout the world should get all the customers' money whilst the manufacturer gets nothing?
I think we've made our stand on this clear many times over, but it doesn't hurt to clear the air :)
We are never going to ask for donations, nor are we going to tell people to "go donate to DF because Toady is awesome ^.^". IMHO such a label would seem a little childish, people who play DF knows perfectly well how and where to donate. And if anyone feels it should be made clearer, then I suggest they direct that request to Toady.
You see, the way it works today, Toady's the one who sets the pace for how hard he wants to push donations. I feel it would be in bad taste if we pressured people or even voiced an opinion on the matter.
The Stonesense splash screen will contain credits to the people who contribute to the project, clean and simple.
Cheers guys :)
Post by: strich on August 18, 2010, 04:20:30 pm
Post by: devek on August 18, 2010, 06:48:26 pm
The best thing to do, is nothing lol. You're not affiliated with bay12games.
Post by: Retro on August 19, 2010, 12:31:19 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 19, 2010, 03:33:17 am
To be more precise, rivers have flow directions, and tobias did some brook tiles a number of pages back, and I can't seem to find a way to integrate these.
Also, are animated terrain tiles possible? If so what might I be doing wrong?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on August 19, 2010, 03:41:28 am
as for water, that's going in the release after this one.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 19, 2010, 03:45:06 am
Post by: Raziel_Blaze on August 19, 2010, 08:53:48 pm
A crazy idea. Could Stonesense -send- keyboard and mouse events to Dwarf Fortress? If it could, it could serve as a general graphical wrapper for it.
To summarize about half of this entire thread: 1. yes, it hypothetically could; 2. no, this will not happen.
mouse input = http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=62301.0
Post by: Zenatsu on August 20, 2010, 03:35:05 am
I checked the log and all it did was repeat
Code: [Select]
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable processCurrently I am running the latest DF release, 0.31.12
I am to assume this is the cause, but the OP says it should support it.
Quote
Note: Stonesense Slate is only compatible with the 2010 versions of DF, that is 31.x.
Post by: jonask84 on August 20, 2010, 03:36:23 am
Good to see you're still around, jonask, busy or not :D
Thanks Retro :) Yeah I'm here heh, and I keep in regular (almost daily) contact with Japa, he's the one who's doing the active development these days you know. So I like to think we're on top of this hehe
Been pretty busy though, but seems like some details are emerging: If all goes well I might be moving to California by the end of the year for a new job. Pretty happy about that. We'll see :)
I'll keep lurking
Edit:
@Zenatsu: Have you checked you have the latest version of the Memory.xml file? The official release of Stonesens Slate is not compatible with 31.12 yet, but you can just drop in an updated Memory.xml to make it compatible. This will be fixed shortly with the new release.
Post by: Zenatsu on August 20, 2010, 04:37:43 am
Post by: jonask84 on August 20, 2010, 05:31:00 am
No, Nor do I know what or where to find said file to update it with. (I know where it is in the stonesense folder, but not where to find an update :/)
You can grab the latest version right here (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml), this is a direct link to whichever Memory.xml file that is at any time in use in the Stonesense project trunk.
I'm going to update the OP with this link too, hopefully save some people some confusion.
Post by: Zenatsu on August 20, 2010, 06:34:12 am
Post by: Andir on August 20, 2010, 06:43:01 am
Post by: jonask84 on August 20, 2010, 07:41:07 am
That info was also available... just 4 pages back. FYI
Sure, but it's really my fault. I should have put this in the OP a long time ago.
Post by: SpuneDagr on August 20, 2010, 09:20:08 am
Post by: Rose on August 20, 2010, 09:22:11 am
Post by: SpuneDagr on August 20, 2010, 10:30:24 am
Post by: Star Guarded on August 20, 2010, 12:22:08 pm
Thanks Retro :) Yeah I'm here heh, and I keep in regular (almost daily) contact with Japa, he's the one who's doing the active development these days you know. So I like to think we're on top of this hehecongrats :] hope it works out
Been pretty busy though, but seems like some details are emerging: If all goes well I might be moving to California by the end of the year for a new job. Pretty happy about that. We'll see :)
I'll keep lurking
looking forward to the new release. and that water looks fantastic, solifuge.
Post by: Nemoder on August 21, 2010, 06:30:50 pm
Post by: dree12 on August 21, 2010, 06:55:52 pm
Post by: Nemoder on August 21, 2010, 08:14:05 pm
I hadn't realized df moved from sf.net to github, thanks!
Post by: CobaltKobold on August 21, 2010, 09:51:37 pm
I want to take world map -
*cough* Like this thing?What is essential to understand here, is that the world does not yet exist. Only general information about each map 'square' is known. The exact layout of each square is generated on embark. SO if you've only embarked once on a 3x3 grid, your entire world is only 9 squares big.
Toady does this, naturally, because it would be impossible to simulate each and every tile, tree, creek etc in the entire world at once.
I'm wondering if that's what he was asking the first place. Take a world map and render it as a single-layer map in Stonesense with each isometric tile representing a map tile, just to get a better look at a general representation of the world from a distance. So a 50x50 world (38400x38400 game tiles) would show up as a 50x50 map purely based off of the tile types see in the world map (ie. mountains of various types, lakes, grasslands, hills, marshes, etc).
(http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/3893/isoworldemo.th.png) (http://img53.imageshack.us/i/isoworldemo.png/)
It doesn't handle elves properly, as their foresthomes are the ONLY duplicated tile on the worldmap (= Heavy Forest), there should be only one foresthome on this map. I think I skipped adding a ruins-tile as well. No telling if it still works with 0.31, but graphical changes are the only thing that'd break it.
Both of you are equally true.eh.
Also, Thoughts on Sounds/Music in Stonesense. Go!
? Would a simple ambient sounds of running water while viewing a river, or a hollow dripping echo as you explored caves in adventure mode make you happy? Would endless "YOU HAVE STRUCK MICROCLINE!" fanfares drive you into a fell mood?Not particularly, and yes.
Is there a reason there seems to be opposition to getting the offsets for the 'legacy' versions?
On ambient sounds: More do-able. But a few questions arise: we can't pick up on events (like baby born, cow slaughtered, axe strikes goblin neck, etc)Getting at the events log gameside (I hope it has pointers) might be the most important thing for future plans.
...wait, gamelog.txt, is it updated real-time? hmm...
True, I don't know if dwarves even have the mental capacity to feel emarrassment, but I'm not taking any chances on this matter. I may be cruel sometimes, but turning my fortress into a nudist resort for furries, that's crossing the line.Draw a line and it will be crossed by something.
all tiles use the same system.Wait, did you just* incidentally implement proper waterfall/water cohesion tile capabilities? *reads tag faq* No, you didn't. Would need "iswater" and "ismagma" for the two kinds.
you can even use it for creatures if you want.
I'm betting this came of generalizing ramp code.
Lies. Stonesense development has been over for years, and Japa's just been posting some delicately crafted Photoshops.Sorry, I never updated my script to work with fatfloors. ;)
okay, ATI people, your only hope is using Directx, it seems.Looks like I'd be hosed then- ATI on linux.
Post by: Rose on August 21, 2010, 10:00:13 pm
yeah, I won't be updating the water to use this feature til after this coming release, since it's quite a lot of work.all tiles use the same system.Wait, did you just* incidentally implement proper waterfall/water cohesion tile capabilities? *reads tag faq* No, you didn't. Would need "iswater" and "ismagma" for the two kinds.
you can even use it for creatures if you want.
I'm betting this came of generalizing ramp code.
Nah, you'd be fine if you manage to get it to compile. the issue lies with the windows drivers, not the card itself.okay, ATI people, your only hope is using Directx, it seems.Looks like I'd be hosed then- ATI on linux.
Post by: Andir on August 22, 2010, 12:11:48 am
Go Microsoft... /sarcasmNah, you'd be fine if you manage to get it to compile. the issue lies with the windows drivers, not the card itself.okay, ATI people, your only hope is using Directx, it seems.Looks like I'd be hosed then- ATI on linux.
Post by: KillHour on August 22, 2010, 02:34:47 am
It's not Microsoft's fault. ATI wrote the drivers.Go Microsoft... /sarcasmNah, you'd be fine if you manage to get it to compile. the issue lies with the windows drivers, not the card itself.okay, ATI people, your only hope is using Directx, it seems.Looks like I'd be hosed then- ATI on linux.
Post by: Rose on August 22, 2010, 02:38:23 am
Post by: James.Denholm on August 22, 2010, 03:13:42 am
Post by: devek on August 22, 2010, 03:47:24 am
A Total waste of Income
Post by: Truean on August 22, 2010, 11:52:52 am
Background:
I used stone sense a long time ago in 40d. I now use 2010 (despite bugs). Stonesense used to come in a folder.
Problem:
It now comes in a rar file. I don't have winrar.
Question:
What is the best way for me to open this wonderful software package? Can I get winrar for free from a reliable site not laden with viri?
Thanks for your time and dedication to this project.
Post by: Rose on August 22, 2010, 11:57:02 am
or you can use 7zip
Post by: Truean on August 22, 2010, 12:01:17 pm
Also some links on the first page are broken. Example: http://dwarffortresswiki.net/Stonesense:Content_repository shoves you into a 404 page not found. At least it does for me.
Post by: jocan2003 on August 22, 2010, 01:24:17 pm
Right now when i make wall out of blocks i get the 4Block wall type using marble block, but i would like to have the more brick-type sprite how would i do that?
Post by: Rose on August 22, 2010, 02:16:08 pm
Post by: Durins Bane on August 22, 2010, 04:46:19 pm
Post by: jocan2003 on August 22, 2010, 10:13:09 pm
modify some xml files.
Thats what i figured that far but to be honest how do i know what sprite number i want?
Post by: Greiger on August 22, 2010, 10:41:29 pm
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Sprites
Basically the image is split up into a grid each with a single sprite.
The top rightmost one is sprite 0. The one directly to the left of that is 1, directly to the left of that is 2. To a maximum of 19 across.
Directly below starts at 20 (whether or not the spritesheet actually is big enough to go 20 across) left of that is 21, and so on.
Hopefully that is enough to give you the jist of it.
Post by: Truean on August 23, 2010, 01:17:32 am
Quote
Just downloaded Stonesense, and it seems to be stuck at the "Connecting to DF" screen. I replaced the memory file too with the one in the OP...so I don't really know what else to do.
Same actually. Does your Stonesense screen flash/flicker at that point too?
Post by: jonask84 on August 23, 2010, 02:11:30 am
Also some links on the first page are broken. Example: http://dwarffortresswiki.net/Stonesense:Content_repository shoves you into a 404 page not found. At least it does for me.
Thanks for the heads up :) Should be fixed now.
@jocan2003: Just post any questions you might have here, and we'll do our best to help you. Good luck!
Oh and on the sprite thing: Pretty much what Greiger said. Know that there is also support for more sprite sheets than that wiki guide (which is somewhat outdated) mentions.
Post by: jocan2003 on August 23, 2010, 06:46:00 am
I believe the spriteing guide here has a good detailed explanation.
http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Sprites
Basically the image is split up into a grid each with a single sprite.
The top rightmost one is sprite 0. The one directly to the left of that is 1, directly to the left of that is 2. To a maximum of 19 across.
Directly below starts at 20 (whether or not the spritesheet actually is big enough to go 20 across) left of that is 21, and so on.
Hopefully that is enough to give you the jist of it.
Thanks a lot for that link it will help greatly :D have a nice day
Post by: Beeskee on August 23, 2010, 10:49:26 am
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=6XFJGT7M
Post by: Rose on August 23, 2010, 10:51:48 am
Post by: Rose on August 23, 2010, 10:59:51 am
Post by: jocan2003 on August 23, 2010, 05:03:38 pm
After trying all i could trying to modify the XML there i still cannot change it, turning Stonesense into debug mode and checking the sprite loaded, it show the game is currently using the Sprite 143 or 145 for the marble wall made of block, after looking at the XML files nothing is using the 143/145 am i missing something?
Maybe i need to add something to the block.xml, if its the case im screwed as i dont know anything about adding a new wall....
Post by: Beeskee on August 23, 2010, 07:13:59 pm
Edit: If I click the "report bug to microsoft" thingy, do you get those reports?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 23, 2010, 08:10:14 pm
Hello once again,
After trying all i could trying to modify the XML there i still cannot change it, turning Stonesense into debug mode and checking the sprite loaded, it show the game is currently using the Sprite 143 or 145 for the marble wall made of block, after looking at the XML files nothing is using the 143/145 am i missing something?
Maybe i need to add something to the block.xml, if its the case im screwed as i dont know anything about adding a new wall....
I beleive you are looking for:
Code: [Select]
<block sprite="143" color="material">
<!-- pillar -->
<terrain value="495" />
<!-- wall -->
<terrain value="496" />
<terrain value="497" />
<terrain value="498" />
<terrain value="499" />
<terrain value="500" />
<terrain value="501" />
<terrain value="502" />
<terrain value="503" />
<terrain value="504" />
<terrain value="505" />
<terrain value="506" />
<terrain value="507" />
<terrain value="508" />
<terrain value="509" />
<terrain value="510" />
<terrain value="511" />
<terrain value="512" />
<terrain value="513" />
<terrain value="514" />
<form value="block" />
<material value="Inorganic" />
<subsprite sprite="145" />
</block>in Test.xml
Post by: Andir on August 23, 2010, 08:59:34 pm
Edit: If I click the "report bug to microsoft" thingy, do you get those reports?Negatory Ghost Rider.
Post by: Beeskee on August 24, 2010, 12:00:26 am
Post by: jonask84 on August 24, 2010, 02:56:52 am
Edit: If I click the "report bug to microsoft" thingy, do you get those reports?Negatory Ghost Rider.
I think it goes directly to the infamous printer-connected-to-shredder.
Post by: James.Denholm on August 24, 2010, 04:33:37 am
Fix'd.Edit: If I click the "report bug to microsoft" thingy, do you get those reports?Negatory Ghost Rider.
I think it goes directly to the incredibly dwarfy printer-connected-to-shredder.
Post by: Rose on August 24, 2010, 04:37:56 am
Post by: Ratbert_CP on August 24, 2010, 09:33:00 am
yup, shredder has a printer directly hooked up to his brain.
Too bad Bebop and Rocksteady can't read...
Post by: Truean on August 24, 2010, 10:36:15 pm
Basically my screen merely flickers when I press F9 and it says "connecting to DF."
I've heard there is an "XML" file to possibly mess with (spreadsheet). If so and applicable, what do I do with it?
Any help would be very appreciated. Thank you.
Post by: Rose on August 24, 2010, 10:44:09 pm
If you are unable to connect to DF, before doing anything else, try updating to the latest Memory.xml file. This (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml) is a direct link to the latest version known to be compatible with Stonesense.
Post by: jonask84 on August 25, 2010, 04:04:15 am
Just curious. Is stonesense compatible with 31.12? The readme leads me to believe not, but then again, how often are those things updated? Meh.
Basically my screen merely flickers when I press F9 and it says "connecting to DF."
I've heard there is an "XML" file to possibly mess with (spreadsheet). If so and applicable, what do I do with it?
Any help would be very appreciated. Thank you.
You're right Truean, you need to download a new XML file :) Just drop this into the stonesense folder, replacing your old Memeory.xml, this will give .12 support. You see, At the time Slate was released, new versions of DF came out every week. We had to do something like this. Today we are very close to being ready with a new version that will support .12 off the bat. Good luck mate!
Post by: Kashyyk on August 25, 2010, 05:35:27 am
Post by: LucasUP on August 25, 2010, 10:48:00 am
This is kind of unrelated, but I didn't want to make a new topic about it. What utility do I need to reveal magma, chasms, HFS, etc. in embark mode? It's such a pain to search the entire map square by square for a magma vent, and then to not find one in a useful position.
You can do that with DFHack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.0)'s "dfreveal" tool. Be careful though, I'd recomend you back up your savegame, because once you reveal your map, it unleashes the HFS messages and spawns them (which slows down FPS etc). Having one save that you can go back to to see the revealed stuff is handy, and another save that isn't all screwed.
Post by: Kashyyk on August 25, 2010, 10:59:18 am
Post by: Beeskee on August 25, 2010, 11:05:06 am
Post by: peterix on August 25, 2010, 11:11:07 am
Answer: the old features (chasms, etc.) are gone. You can only see/reveal volcanos and cave entrances. This is done either in some init file or by setting some variables for custom worldgen...
Post by: Kashyyk on August 25, 2010, 11:41:30 am
Post by: Truean on August 25, 2010, 04:33:16 pm
Quote
If you are unable to connect to DF, before doing anything else, try updating to the latest Memory.xml file. This is a direct link to the latest version known to be compatible with Stonesense.
Quote
You're right Truean, you need to download a new XML file :) Just drop this into the stonesense folder, replacing your old Memeory.xml, this will give .12 support. You see, At the time Slate was released, new versions of DF came out every week. We had to do something like this. Today we are very close to being ready with a new version that will support .12 off the bat. Good luck mate!
Thank you both. I saw http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml
I suppose my somewhat noobish question is what to do with it. I apologize in advance. Yes, "download." I click on it. It opens a page. I cannot seem to understand how to download it and replace the Memory XML file document.
Is there a download command I'm missing? Do I copy and paste it into a new document to replace the old one.
Again, I'm just not familiar with the procedure itself.
Thank you for your time.
Post by: peterix on August 25, 2010, 05:23:15 pm
Right-click the link, save-as, overwrite the old file.QuoteIf you are unable to connect to DF, before doing anything else, try updating to the latest Memory.xml file. This is a direct link to the latest version known to be compatible with Stonesense.QuoteYou're right Truean, you need to download a new XML file :) Just drop this into the stonesense folder, replacing your old Memeory.xml, this will give .12 support. You see, At the time Slate was released, new versions of DF came out every week. We had to do something like this. Today we are very close to being ready with a new version that will support .12 off the bat. Good luck mate!
Thank you both. I saw http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml)
I suppose my somewhat noobish question is what to do with it. I apologize in advance. Yes, "download." I click on it. It opens a page. I cannot seem to understand how to download it and replace the Memory XML file document.
Is there a download command I'm missing? Do I copy and paste it into a new document to replace the old one.
Again, I'm just not familiar with the procedure itself.
Thank you for your time.
Post by: Truean on August 25, 2010, 05:43:00 pm
Post by: McBeer on August 26, 2010, 09:15:31 am
Which exact VC do i need to have to launch Stonesense?
After system reinstall i cannot figure out what i am missing, I am getting "memory cannot be read" error now :E
Dependancy walker shows that msvcp80 and msvcr80 dlls are missing.
Post by: MechaGodzilla on August 26, 2010, 02:33:24 pm
How can I get it to work?
Post by: jonask84 on August 27, 2010, 03:49:04 am
@MechaGodzilla: seems like there's an issue finding the sprite sheets. Maybe it has to do with the video memory. Try switching to DirectX or OpenGL (whichever you were not using) or maybe even software rendering. Also, you can try enabling debug mode and pressing F10, then you should be able to browse through the loaded sprite sheets. see if anything's there. All these settings can be found in the init file.
@McBeer: I think it's msvs 2005 we've been using, but you can download those dll's from various safe sources. Just google em :)
Post by: MechaGodzilla on August 27, 2010, 11:05:17 am
Awesome! Switching to DirectX worked and now it works great!
Many Thanks!
Post by: iceball3 on August 27, 2010, 11:37:09 pm
i run over and get the memory file updated, same thing. I ran it, the window opens and then closes out immediately after.
anybody know why the program does this? i have 31.12 adn it is running when i try to run stonesense.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 28, 2010, 06:55:41 am
For giving ice a surface that doesn't repeat through the depth of it.
I suppose it could also apply to glass...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on August 28, 2010, 07:42:34 am
@iceball3: have you tried changing the graphics mode to directx?
Post by: Beeskee on August 28, 2010, 09:17:37 am
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=15096.msg1519383#msg1519383
The clear glass doors in the Inn don't show up for some reason.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on August 28, 2010, 12:05:20 pm
Post by: Rose on August 28, 2010, 12:24:26 pm
I'll get right on it.
Post by: Zeus on August 28, 2010, 07:22:40 pm
Post by: rytomen on August 29, 2010, 10:17:29 am
Try switching to DirectX...
Thanks
It Works)))
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 29, 2010, 07:58:09 pm
Quote
Bld = DF.getBuildings();
contentLoader.MemInfo = DF.getMemoryInfo();
if(professionStrings.empty())
{
for(int i=0;; i++)
{
string temp;
try
{
temp = MemInfo->getProfession(i);
}
catch(exception &e)
{
break;
}
if(temp[0])
{
professionStrings.push_back(temp);
}
}
}
if(classIdStrings.empty())
{
for(int i = 0; ; i++)
{
string temp;
if(!MemInfo->resolveClassIDToClassname(i, temp))
{
break;
}
classIdStrings.push_back(temp);
}
}
And these are the build errors I get.
Quote
Linking CXX executable ../stonesense
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/ContentLoader.cpp.o: In function `ContentLoader::Load(DFHack::Context&)':
ContentLoader.cpp:(.text+0x2507): undefined reference to `DFHack::memory_info::resolveClassIDToClassname(int, std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >&)'
ContentLoader.cpp:(.text+0x2626): undefined reference to `DFHack::memory_info::getProfession(unsigned int) const'
ContentLoader.cpp:(.text+0x28f0): undefined reference to `DFHack::memory_info::resolveClassIDToClassname(int, std::basic_string<char, std::char_traits<char>, std::allocator<char> >&)'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [../stonesense] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Post by: Rose on August 29, 2010, 08:19:09 pm
there's an on_compiling.txt that says which one to use.
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 29, 2010, 08:33:16 pm
make sure your building against the right version of stonesense.
there's an on_compiling.txt that says which one to use.
If you're referring to the latest version, then yes, I am using it. The only version of Stonesense I found referred to in ON COMPILING.txt was the latest version in the SVN trunk.
Post by: Rose on August 29, 2010, 08:36:08 pm
I meant to type DFhack.
make sure your compiling against the right dfhack. the latest one wont work.
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 29, 2010, 08:57:52 pm
/me smaks his face
I meant to type DFhack.
make sure your compiling against the right dfhack. the latest one wont work.
Oh, alright. I do have the latest version. I'll go get DFhack 4.0.5. :D
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 29, 2010, 10:29:37 pm
Quote
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DFHack::Error::MissingMemoryDefinition'
what(): memory definition missing: type address key current_menu_state
Aborted
Post by: Rose on August 29, 2010, 10:32:48 pm
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 29, 2010, 10:36:04 pm
get the latest XML from the first post.
I put that in the same directory as the stonesense executable and I get the same error as before.
Post by: Rose on August 29, 2010, 10:38:41 pm
or runn the windows version of DF through wine. SS can still connect to that from what I heard.
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 29, 2010, 10:51:17 pm
in that case, take it up with the DFhack guys, and see if they can help.I tried the Wine solution before I tried compiling and I had no luck. After your post I tried using that Memory.xml file for SS as well as DFhack and now SS no longer crashes. However, I'm now stuck at "Connecting to DF..."
or runn the windows version of DF through wine. SS can still connect to that from what I heard.
EDIT: I was able to run through Wine but this is not at all a desirable way to use Stonesense and Dwarf Fortress together. When SS is running in Wine alongside DF running in Wine, SS causes DF to stutter very badly, making it virtually unplayable.
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 31, 2010, 04:17:08 am
Quote
terminate called after throwing an instance of 'DFHack::Error::MemoryXmlNoDFExtractor'
what(): DFExtractor != DFHack
Aborted
I think I tracked it down to the Memory.xml files used for both DFHack and Stonesense. I updated the instances of DFhack in those files to DFExtractor and that allowed Stonesense to run, but now I am stuck at the "Connecting to DF..." screen.
Post by: Rose on August 31, 2010, 05:00:28 am
try again with the latest DFhack, and the latest stonesense.
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 31, 2010, 05:07:30 am
peterix just recently did some stuff to get stonesense working on linux.
try again with the latest DFhack, and the latest stonesense.
Well, I did install the latest DFhack from github, but I'll clean everything out and start from scratch.
Post by: HoppyDragon on August 31, 2010, 05:30:11 am
EDIT: Peterix helped me via ICQ to get it working. Terrain is the only thing visible for now but that's much better than "Connecting to DF..."
Post by: sjaakwortel on September 01, 2010, 09:49:52 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on September 01, 2010, 09:53:42 am
how can i take a picture of the whole map(3*3) ??
It's not that long ago, I typed 'screenshot' into the search box on this thread and this came right up:
you can disable fog in the init.txt, and ctrl+F5 takes an entire map screenshot
Post by: sjaakwortel on September 01, 2010, 10:02:51 am
Post by: JanusTwoface on September 01, 2010, 10:15:57 am
What happens when you hit Ctrl-F5? Screenshots take awhile (unless something's changed since last time I tried it, which has been awhile granted).
Post by: sjaakwortel on September 01, 2010, 10:29:26 am
Post by: Fensfield on September 01, 2010, 10:37:54 am
I'm using DF 2010 (version 31.12), and after an initial failure and reading around some, I replaced Memory.xml with the one linked on the first page of this thread.
Using OpenGL as the renderer results in flashing between the Welcome screen and 'Connecting to DF...', all the other renderer options merely sit at 'Connecting to DF...'
Here's the contents of the logfile (from a single attempt, all the other entries are much the same):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
'Anyone able to help?
Oh, right, and DF's running on Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Post by: Rose on September 01, 2010, 11:28:30 am
Post by: kilostar on September 01, 2010, 08:25:48 pm
what dose the logs mean? how can i get it working?
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 is too large. chopping it.
2048 works.
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: DFExtractor != DFHack
backbuffer w, h: 0, 0
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: DFExtractor != DFHack
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: DFExtractor != DFHack
Post by: Rose on September 01, 2010, 10:53:44 pm
Post by: James.Denholm on September 02, 2010, 02:46:02 am
Post by: Star Guarded on September 02, 2010, 06:18:05 am
just wait a day or two for the next release.WOOOOO soo excited!
Post by: Retro on September 02, 2010, 06:28:37 am
just wait a day or two for the next release.WOOOOO soo excited!
fist PUMP fist PUMP
Post by: jonask84 on September 02, 2010, 06:28:59 am
We already have a custom tile for it, the blue one that you've been seeing for a long while, but there are some things with which it could be improved: It is only for walls and floors, and has no stair, fortification or ramp sprites. These are shown as normal stone, only shaded dark black. Also, some people have noted that they don't like the stylistic blue obsidian.
An alternative would be to drop the custom obsidian sprite, and just use the regular rock sprites, only shaded dark gray. This would be a simple and cheap fix.
Alternatively, we could possibly expand on the blueish style to include the missing sprites, OR we could redesign it and expand it to a more conservative black-shiny look. (Either of these options are time consuming, of course, and requires artists to actually do this)
The choice is yours
Post by: jonask84 on September 02, 2010, 06:38:27 am
I replaced Memory.xml with the one linked on the first page of this thread.Slate 2.1 is on it's way out, let us know if that version isn't working for you when i launches :)
Post by: Star Guarded on September 02, 2010, 07:05:21 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 02, 2010, 08:09:34 am
Post by: Rose on September 02, 2010, 08:41:04 am
Spoiler: Goblins are FABULOUS! (click to show/hide)
Post by: belannaer on September 02, 2010, 09:12:35 am
We're laying the finishing touches on the next release, Stonesense Slate 2.1, and for that occasion we decided to put up a new poll. What should we do about Obsidian.
We already have a custom tile for it, the blue one that you've been seeing for a long while, but there are some things with which it could be improved: It is only for walls and floors, and has no stair, fortification or ramp sprites. These are shown as normal stone, only shaded dark black. Also, some people have noted that they don't like the stylistic blue obsidian.
An alternative would be to drop the custom obsidian sprite, and just use the regular rock sprites, only shaded dark gray. This would be a simple and cheap fix.
Alternatively, we could possibly expand on the blueish style to include the missing sprites, OR we could redesign it and expand it to a more conservative black-shiny look. (Either of these options are time consuming, of course, and requires artists to actually do this)
The choice is yours
I'm definitely for the improved obsidian looks since I and probably a lot of other people also like to build things out of it and if it would look nicer than it now does it would be superb. Black and grey stone blocks are really boring as you could just use some random stone instead just as well if it's just for looks (what Stonesense in the end is). Something similar to the current bluish style, with maybe a hint towards more black would be definitely great in my opinion and expand that to everything obsidianish.
Post by: Star Guarded on September 02, 2010, 10:30:02 am
Hahah. I was thinking a black-purple but you know that works even better! Just needs some pink highlights on the edges and you've got obsidian.Spoiler: Goblins are FABULOUS! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on September 02, 2010, 10:50:46 am
Post by: Reese on September 02, 2010, 01:49:08 pm
We're laying the finishing touches on the next release, Stonesense Slate 2.1, and for that occasion we decided to put up a new poll. What should we do about Obsidian.
We already have a custom tile for it, the blue one that you've been seeing for a long while, but there are some things with which it could be improved: It is only for walls and floors, and has no stair, fortification or ramp sprites. These are shown as normal stone, only shaded dark black. Also, some people have noted that they don't like the stylistic blue obsidian.
An alternative would be to drop the custom obsidian sprite, and just use the regular rock sprites, only shaded dark gray. This would be a simple and cheap fix.
Alternatively, we could possibly expand on the blueish style to include the missing sprites, OR we could redesign it and expand it to a more conservative black-shiny look. (Either of these options are time consuming, of course, and requires artists to actually do this)
The choice is yours
I voted for the redesign, I'd like to see it looking a conservative black-shiny... if you could make it so that it can be easily colored programatically so that other volcanic glass stone can reuse the tile it would be a bonus.
Post by: McBeer on September 02, 2010, 02:08:23 pm
Quote
Same as many other stones, but shaded dark black
Post by: Solifuge on September 02, 2010, 02:25:17 pm
(http://i56.tinypic.com/jfufsm.jpg)
Post by: Rose on September 02, 2010, 02:27:01 pm
Post by: Solifuge on September 02, 2010, 02:37:21 pm
Post by: McBeer on September 02, 2010, 02:39:31 pm
I'd say keep it with the huge mega pack to make it extra special.
Yup, ultimate consolidation(of tile packs) + new version would be fine.
Tiletuning is just evolution, new base's required first.
btw, could someone advice: i have vb 2003, 2005, 2008 and 2010, and stonesense still is giving "MEMORY cannot be read" error at start.
dependancy check shows this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
tf?
Post by: peterix on September 02, 2010, 02:48:59 pm
Post by: Shadowclaimer on September 02, 2010, 03:42:12 pm
Whelp, try as I might, I can't seem to get Stonesense to connect to DF.
I'm using DF 2010 (version 31.12), and after an initial failure and reading around some, I replaced Memory.xml with the one linked on the first page of this thread.
Using OpenGL as the renderer results in flashing between the Welcome screen and 'Connecting to DF...', all the other renderer options merely sit at 'Connecting to DF...'
Here's the contents of the logfile (from a single attempt, all the other entries are much the same):Spoiler (click to show/hide)
'Anyone able to help?
Oh, right, and DF's running on Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Haha that's the exact error/OS I'm using. Any cures for it besides waiting for the next release?
Post by: harborpirate on September 02, 2010, 07:26:24 pm
Whelp, try as I might, I can't seem to get Stonesense to connect to DF.
I'm using DF 2010 (version 31.12), and after an initial failure and reading around some, I replaced Memory.xml with the one linked on the first page of this thread.
Using OpenGL as the renderer results in flashing between the Welcome screen and 'Connecting to DF...', all the other renderer options merely sit at 'Connecting to DF...'
Here's the contents of the logfile (from a single attempt, all the other entries are much the same):Spoiler (click to show/hide)
'Anyone able to help?
Oh, right, and DF's running on Windows 7 Ultimate (64 bit)
Haha that's the exact error/OS I'm using. Any cures for it besides waiting for the next release?
I have this exact problem on Vista Ultimate 64 bit. I tried grabbing the current as well as several branch versions of the memory.xml, tried running in XP compatibility mode, tried changing to use DirectX rather than OpenGL in the init. I double checked the memory offsets that I could find references for, and all were correct; and the MD5 of my DF exe matches correctly.
Still no go. I'll be watching for the next release.
Thanks for all the work on this, everyone - StoneSense is fantastic.
Post by: McBeer on September 02, 2010, 07:30:29 pm
if not, it basically may not want to give access to that memory range.
just thought, i am using w7 only for gaming machine(not DF/work machine).
Post by: Rose on September 02, 2010, 09:06:35 pm
Post by: Randomtask on September 02, 2010, 10:23:29 pm
This thread doesn't get nearly enough positive comments. I just wanted to chime in and show some love for the crew working hard on this.
Post by: harborpirate on September 02, 2010, 10:33:20 pm
Since the OP memory.xml didn't work I ran through the repository real quick just to see if any others worked (a stab in the dark).
One thing of note: I'm running the Mike Mayday graphics pack on top of v31.12. Not sure about the others who are having this problem.
Post by: peterix on September 03, 2010, 03:03:13 am
Post by: Andeerz on September 03, 2010, 03:34:48 am
regardless, of the two, it's actually Slade that's more likely to be purple.
Indeed! Obsidian was black first. I would prefer obsidian being eventually a somewhat shiny black stone, not matte and boring. I would also prefer slade as some sort of off-black purple or blue or red or whatever, not obsidian.
Post by: Reese on September 03, 2010, 04:15:11 am
I've been noticing that the current version can be more than a little laggy on keyboard controls(moving the view around in SS with DF paused), I was wondering if anyone might have any suggestions to see where I might be bottlenecking. I recall having much more responsive controls when I was using SS with 40d, and I'd like to see if there's something I can do on my end to improve performance.
Post by: Rose on September 03, 2010, 04:24:32 am
Post by: James.Denholm on September 03, 2010, 04:50:29 am
Post by: Rose on September 03, 2010, 04:51:39 am
Post by: James.Denholm on September 03, 2010, 04:52:16 am
Post by: peterix on September 03, 2010, 07:30:23 am
Ain't that against DF tradition?Not really. DF as it is now uses three threads AFAIK. One for sound, one for graphics and one for the actual game.
Post by: Innominate on September 03, 2010, 09:35:50 am
Post by: peterix on September 03, 2010, 10:30:45 am
Three threads.
One does only painting and user I/O.
One processes raw data into drawable areas.
One reads from DF.
Have two drawable regions. One belongs to the painting thread, one to the processing thread. When the reading thread has all the data read, the processing thread is woken up and given the data to process. When the processing is done, the processing thread syncs with the drawing thread and the drawable regions are swapped. Then they desync and the processing thread empties its drawable area, prepares it for processing and goes to sleep.
Drawing thread paints stuff on the screen and handles input.
Reader thread runs from a timer.
The area loaded should be a bit bigger than what's painted on the screen so moving around doesn't lag visually.
Reading, processing and screen output run at the same time -> moving around in stonesense is smooth, DF isn't stalled by the processing (because locking is used when accessing its memory already in DFHack, this is very important).
Also, it needs tons of optimization in the processing and drawing steps.
Post by: Rose on September 03, 2010, 10:38:13 am
Post by: devek on September 03, 2010, 11:10:03 am
Each tile is just a pointer to a structure.
The processing thread reads and looks for changed tiles. Rather than updating the structure for that tile, it makes a new one and updates the reference pointing to it. Don't free the old structure right away, store it in a list to free later.
The drawing thread can just draw away. The data it is reading may be out of date (the old reference), but it won't be changed while using it.
But honestly, it seems kind of silly. Why have multiple threads using almost no cpu instead of one? It isn't like you're doing nuclear simulations.
Post by: peterix on September 03, 2010, 12:50:52 pm
Or capitalize on how rarely tiles are changed and just have two threads.One word: latency.
Each tile is just a pointer to a structure.
The processing thread reads and looks for changed tiles. Rather than updating the structure for that tile, it makes a new one and updates the reference pointing to it. Don't free the old structure right away, store it in a list to free later.
The drawing thread can just draw away. The data it is reading may be out of date (the old reference), but it won't be changed while using it.
But honestly, it seems kind of silly. Why have multiple threads using almost no cpu instead of one? It isn't like you're doing nuclear simulations.
Post by: Beeskee on September 03, 2010, 01:15:03 pm
A lot of my major buildings are obsidian, I can take some before and after screenshots. :D
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 03, 2010, 01:56:36 pm
I still have soils, ramps, stairs, and fortifications to go.(And probably a bucket of other bits and pieces I forgot.)
Spoiler: goblinTower (click to show/hide)
Post by: dennislp3 on September 03, 2010, 04:26:42 pm
Still working on my own set of tiles, there are a lot to cover...
I still have soils, ramps, stairs, and fortifications to go.(And probably a bucket of other bits and pieces I forgot.)Spoiler: goblinTower (click to show/hide)
That looks really good imho
Post by: smd on September 03, 2010, 04:57:18 pm
I'm stuck with the flashing connecting to DF... screen.
Post by: Star Guarded on September 03, 2010, 07:46:44 pm
Does not work with 31.12 with any of the memory.xml files I found links for. :(According to the devs the new release is in "a day or two" so you won't have to wait long for something that will hopefully work :]
I'm stuck with the flashing connecting to DF... screen.
Post by: harborpirate on September 03, 2010, 08:46:00 pm
This one should work until the next version is released: http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/data/Memory.xml (http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/data/Memory.xml)
Sadly, that didn't work either. Here was the pertinent log info using that copy:
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.20 r0
4096 works.
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: underspecified MemInfo entry, each entry needs to set both the name attribute and have a value. parent: meta-2010
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 04, 2010, 07:11:53 am
Spoiler: Here is what I've been trying (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on September 04, 2010, 07:23:34 am
also, make sure you use the needopen, etc tags for conditional walls, and not the terrain values, as the terrain values don't stay when you rotate the view.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 04, 2010, 07:45:42 am
Layer Material:Inorganic/CLAY_LOAM
Spoiler: I also tried (click to show/hide)
... the terrain values don't stay when you rotate the view.Thanks for pointing that out, I now have 3.2k lines of messy xml to re-jigger.
Post by: Rose on September 04, 2010, 07:58:31 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 04, 2010, 09:27:08 am
(I was typing the wrong number...)
Post by: rmunn on September 04, 2010, 10:17:46 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 04, 2010, 01:27:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also only some of my grass seems to change... most of it is default and my grass appears on each of the 4 grass tiles, just not all of them in the area.
Post by: Granite on September 04, 2010, 03:43:13 pm
Does not work with 31.12 with any of the memory.xml files I found links for. :(According to the devs the new release is in "a day or two" so you won't have to wait long for something that will hopefully work :]
I'm stuck with the flashing connecting to DF... screen.
Oh really?! That's great news! Is this confirmed? BTW, is "a day or two" a hyperbole?
Also, are you devs planning a linux release along with this new one?
Post by: Jaylow on September 04, 2010, 06:20:38 pm
this application has failed to start because the applicationn configuration is incorrest. reinstalling the application may fix the problem
i just reinstaled my pc to see if DF works quiker and instaled the Lazy Newb pack on my computer and everything was working fine untile i moved it to a other folder from my Desktop to D: afther that i tryed and it did not work anymore
i tryed downloading the new version of Stonesense and today also the new version of LNP
but still no luck
i have the same problem white runesmith..... :(
Post by: iceball3 on September 04, 2010, 08:41:12 pm
hi stonesense does not work anymore for me when i start it is crashes and sayIceball3 cancels suggest that this user may be using the wrong version for the wrong operating system: too insane.
this application has failed to start because the applicationn configuration is incorrest. reinstalling the application may fix the problem
i just reinstaled my pc to see if DF works quiker and instaled the Lazy Newb pack on my computer and everything was working fine untile i moved it to a other folder from my Desktop to D: afther that i tryed and it did not work anymore
i tryed downloading the new version of Stonesense and today also the new version of LNP
but still no luck
i have the same problem white runesmith..... :(
Iceball3 has gone starck raving mad!
Post by: Rose on September 04, 2010, 08:44:01 pm
Post by: gumbyscout on September 05, 2010, 12:20:40 am
Post by: Raziel_Blaze on September 05, 2010, 12:58:04 am
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 01:26:43 am
Does anyone else have incorrect coloring of dwarves and animals in linux? My cats turn up blue, kittens are red, dwarves beards are the same color as their skin, etc. Also, I have never gotten the "ctrl-F5" to take a full screenshot to work, whether in linux or windows. It says "taking large screenshot", and then doesn't save anything, or at least where I can find it. Normal screenshots work though.
you need to set the drawmode to software. it's a hell of a lot slower, but it's not limited by video ram.
If you need some examples of simple threading, i can send you some. It is c++, but if you are not using this language it could give you ideas.
Those would be great. we're using C++, with a library that gives similar threading functions to pthreads.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 05, 2010, 04:18:33 am
This doesn't seem to change my clay-loam floors.Problem solved; under no cicumstances should floor be spelled B L O C K. Otherwise it wont work.Any idea why that might be?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also only some of my grass seems to change... most of it is default and my grass appears on each of the 4 grass tiles, just not all of them in the area.
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 04:20:33 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 05, 2010, 05:09:03 am
The choice fell on changing obsidian to a darker look, this will in the first round be done by using the default textures, and then later supplemented with whatever awesomeness we can muster :)
Release is just about done. Stay tuned.
Post by: Vaftrudner on September 05, 2010, 06:05:51 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's the latest svn trunk. What do you think causes this?
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 06:22:54 am
things like installing Allegro 4.9.21?
Post by: Vaftrudner on September 05, 2010, 06:25:48 am
did you follow the build instructions?I did indeed, only disabling pulse audio. I checked now though, I didn't touch the install dir, which means that it's under /usr/local. Would that matter?
things like installing Allegro 4.9.21?
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 06:27:48 am
just don't know how that would be done.
Post by: jonask84 on September 05, 2010, 07:25:37 am
Stonesense Slate 2.1
Download now you guys! (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_2.1.zip)
New features include:
- Blood, vomit and other fun bodily fluids!
- Tons of new creatures pulled in
- Mood icons for creatures (activate with 'M')
- New natural stone walls with better outlines
- Animated terrain
- Improved truncated walls
- 31.12 support
- A much more robust and feature rich configuration system
Post by: Tommy on September 05, 2010, 07:58:48 am
(http://212.13.194.51/~tommy/dropbox/ssfail.png)
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 08:00:33 am
try again after installing this
Post by: Tommy on September 05, 2010, 08:10:42 am
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 08:13:04 am
Post by: Tommy on September 05, 2010, 08:20:24 am
Post by: Star Guarded on September 05, 2010, 08:28:06 am
And here we are!you are my hero
Stonesense Slate 2.1
Download now you guys! (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_2.1.zip)
New features include:
- Blood, vomit and other fun bodily fluids!
- Tons of new creatures pulled in
- Mood icons for creatures (activate with 'M')
- New natural stone walls with better outlines
- Animated terrain
- Improved truncated walls
- 31.12 support
- A much more robust and feature rich configuration system
Post by: Vaftrudner on September 05, 2010, 08:43:01 am
I'm guessing there's some way to point the build to the allegro directory.This is interesting, because there really is no allegro_native_dialog.h in my /usr/local/include/allegro5 folder. There is one, however, in the stonesense in /allegro/allegro5/. jonask84, sorry to bother you with my almost non-existant programming skills, but it seemed to me that Allegro compiled and installed correctly, am I missing something?
just don't know how that would be done.
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 08:45:34 am
Post by: lordnincompoop on September 05, 2010, 08:47:14 am
Post by: Greiger on September 05, 2010, 08:52:25 am
Comments:
*The animated grass looks very nice. Good work whoever did it.
*The blood spatter also looks very nice. I was kinda expecting even small amounts to dominate the landscape, but it actually looks very good. Small amounts actually are hard to notice, as I would expect. Even the mixed together blood is the same color as ingame.
*Blood doesn't show up on roads. Not a big deal though.
*The new rough stone walls are also pretty.
*Is that...yes it is! A sprite for semi-molten rock! Woo!
I approve sirs. Excellent work!
Post by: Tommy on September 05, 2010, 08:52:59 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 05, 2010, 09:07:35 am
Nope, still nothing. Same error, redist installed.Tommy, thanks for letting me know. I've actually been seeing this error myself from time to time.
I have no idea what caused it, and for me it went away as suddenly as it came.
I would say try changing renderer and all that stuff and see if it helps, and know that I'll be keeping a close eye on this bug.
Thanks
- Jonas
Post by: Tommy on September 05, 2010, 09:10:25 am
Post by: Vaftrudner on September 05, 2010, 09:17:24 am
there is in the addons folder in allegro.Yes, I did indeed fuck up and forget a dependancy :) That's why Allegro didn't build with all addons, and I didn't even notice. Oh well, thanks for steering me in the right direction!
Post by: Tommy on September 05, 2010, 09:25:45 am
Post by: Jaylow on September 05, 2010, 10:02:03 am
try installing the VC2005 redists
Stonesense works, i love you!
but runesmith (V0.1.5) still has the same error.... any idea on how to fix that
or should i be in a other tread for that
Post by: Still Standing on September 05, 2010, 10:39:57 am
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 10:41:06 am
Post by: gumbyscout on September 05, 2010, 11:26:55 am
Things still aren't colored properly. Also, like you said, way hell of a lot slower.Does anyone else have incorrect coloring of dwarves and animals in linux? My cats turn up blue, kittens are red, dwarves beards are the same color as their skin, etc. Also, I have never gotten the "ctrl-F5" to take a full screenshot to work, whether in linux or windows. It says "taking large screenshot", and then doesn't save anything, or at least where I can find it. Normal screenshots work though.
you need to set the drawmode to software. it's a hell of a lot slower, but it's not limited by video ram.
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 11:32:51 am
stoftware mode is really only for taking large screenshots.
Post by: Jadael on September 05, 2010, 12:45:31 pm
You have hold the key and guess when the frame ends, and if you guess wrong you'll go down like two or three levels instead.
Post by: belannaer on September 05, 2010, 12:58:34 pm
Post by: devek on September 05, 2010, 02:57:31 pm
If you need some examples of simple threading, i can send you some. It is c++, but if you are not using this language it could give you ideas.
Those would be great. we're using C++, with a library that gives similar threading functions to pthreads.
You could try using QT.. it lets you embed opengl in a way that will work better cross platform. It lets you do sound in a way that works better cross platform. It has threads in a way that works better cross platform. Etc Etc
You can do stuff like.. QtConcurrent::run(Function); and it will straight up run a function in another thread out of its thread pool.
Post by: Reese on September 05, 2010, 03:16:41 pm
Great job with the new version. I have only a minor problem with it. Double clicking the exe file does absolutely nothing. This is on XP machine. *wants to take pretty pictures of new fort*. Also noticed that my goblins are now used in it! Cheers!
I've downloaded and tested the new version on my computer, which is XP SP2 (wait, it's SP2? I thought I installed it frm an SP3 cd :-\ ) and it opens and runs fine, no problems with .12
I also noticed that it was a bit more responsive to my key presses than the previous release- until I went underground
Post by: belannaer on September 05, 2010, 04:56:54 pm
Great job with the new version. I have only a minor problem with it. Double clicking the exe file does absolutely nothing. This is on XP machine. *wants to take pretty pictures of new fort*. Also noticed that my goblins are now used in it! Cheers!
I've downloaded and tested the new version on my computer, which is XP SP2 (wait, it's SP2? I thought I installed it frm an SP3 cd :-\ ) and it opens and runs fine, no problems with .12
I also noticed that it was a bit more responsive to my key presses than the previous release- until I went underground
Running SP3 myself and I tried changing rendering options and everything and stillf nothing. At least in previous version when it didn't work (it is working now) I got the opening screen before crash/hanging to connecting but now I don't get anything, absolutely nothing happens when the exe is run. I also re-downloaded and deleted the old Stonesense couple of times to make sure I didn't accidentally install it over the old one or anything. Did also few reboots.
Post by: Rose on September 05, 2010, 08:04:10 pm
If you need some examples of simple threading, i can send you some. It is c++, but if you are not using this language it could give you ideas.
Those would be great. we're using C++, with a library that gives similar threading functions to pthreads.
You could try using QT.. it lets you embed opengl in a way that will work better cross platform. It lets you do sound in a way that works better cross platform. It has threads in a way that works better cross platform. Etc Etc
You can do stuff like.. QtConcurrent::run(Function); and it will straight up run a function in another thread out of its thread pool.
We're using Allegro. it let's us embed OpenGL in a way that will work better cross platform. It lets us do sound in a way that works better cross platform, it has threads that work better cross platform, Etc. Etc.
Post by: Star Guarded on September 06, 2010, 12:09:13 am
Post by: Rose on September 06, 2010, 12:26:47 am
Post by: Star Guarded on September 06, 2010, 12:36:18 am
it's on by default.Huh D: would there be any reason its not showing up? its a savegame that was updated to .12. at first I figured it probably just wasn't rendering old blood but now I've had dwarves bleed out and eviscerate stuff and it's still not showing. maybe they're just not bleeding enough yet?
Post by: Rose on September 06, 2010, 12:41:53 am
Post by: Rose on September 06, 2010, 01:26:01 am
people, before complaining about lack of blood, first use the debug mode to see how much blood there actually is.
amounts less then about 100 just look like little splatter, that are more transparent, the less blood there is. if you want proper amounds of blood, bleed more for amok's sake!
Post by: Fensfield on September 06, 2010, 03:43:06 am
Thank you XD
Post by: LucasUP on September 06, 2010, 04:42:21 pm
colorse need to be fixed by peterix for linux.somthign elese needs to be fixed here...
stoftware mode is really only for taking large screenshots.
This talk about amounts of blood brings back the want of it acting like a liquid.
mmmm.... floorgrated bridge of death with chained war animals overtop of a blood cistern.
I guess watching it pool up to one z-level will have to do for now!
ALSO BTW LNP (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=59026.0) UPDATED WITH STONESENSE 2.1 JUST SAYING
Post by: elmariachi on September 06, 2010, 07:09:14 pm
Post by: McBeer on September 06, 2010, 08:28:26 pm
I still cannot get Stonesense working.
I have netcf 2.0, 3.5 and 4.0, vs 2005, 2008, 2010.
Still getting "The application failed to initialize properly - 0xc0150002" error.
It worked before reformat.
I really could use your help, as i am out of ideas(dependency check's ok), is that app services-dependant?
I am using modified winxpsp3 here(although it is only app that behaves weird way till now), need methodology of searching for solution.
0xc0150002 is vs2005 dependent, if i am right, but i do have it installed :E wrong reg paths? multiple dlls? wth... how can i track vs 2005 registry? where is it stored?
upd: for some reason reinstalling vs 2005 runtimes and then vs2005 sp1 runtimes helped.
it RUNS NOW! ..omg, it is...animated.
Post by: jfsh on September 07, 2010, 02:03:28 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 07, 2010, 03:02:00 am
I wanna just give a it to Japa here, he's the one who's been programming up a storm on this latest release. Really well done mate!
Know that we're doing our best to keep the little bugs out and we're working on making things easier for linux compiling.
Post by: fateshaper on September 07, 2010, 03:26:37 am
I'm a big fan of DF, and I'm dying to get this visualizer to work. However, everytime I click on the stonesense app to run, it says
The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0150002). Click OK to terminate the application.
I don't have Visual studio on my com, is that the reason why?
Any help is much appreciated :)
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 03:39:31 am
Post by: belannaer on September 07, 2010, 04:34:42 am
yeah, you need to install the VS2005 and VS2005sp1 runtimes.
I'm guessing that my bug where running the program doesn't do anything at all is related to this also?
Post by: Tommy on September 07, 2010, 04:42:14 am
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 04:59:39 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 07, 2010, 06:57:33 am
yeah, you need to install the VS2005 and VS2005sp1 runtimes.
I'm guessing that my bug where running the program doesn't do anything at all is related to this also?
It does nothing? just exits? I really have NO idea about this one... I think maybe you gotta get crazy and experiment. Like take all the content out. or change renderer. or try the fullscreen mode.
Only thing I can imagine is it's some kind of controlled crash that we must have forgotten to add an output for. I assume you've checked the log? It wouldn't hurt to turn on Verbose logging mode in the init either.
Post by: belannaer on September 07, 2010, 07:34:57 am
yeah, you need to install the VS2005 and VS2005sp1 runtimes.
I'm guessing that my bug where running the program doesn't do anything at all is related to this also?
It does nothing? just exits? I really have NO idea about this one... I think maybe you gotta get crazy and experiment. Like take all the content out. or change renderer. or try the fullscreen mode.
Only thing I can imagine is it's some kind of controlled crash that we must have forgotten to add an output for. I assume you've checked the log? It wouldn't hurt to turn on Verbose logging mode in the init either.
Yeah it does absolutely nothing. I don't even get any screen or anything at any point. I changed renderer and poked something earlier already with no success. I think I didn't even get any log file from those tries. I'll have to experiment more during weekend when I get back home.
Post by: Cult of the Raven on September 07, 2010, 08:44:30 am
Post by: McBeer on September 07, 2010, 09:08:30 am
Hey guys, I'm terribly sorry if I sound like an absolute newbie here.
I'm a big fan of DF, and I'm dying to get this visualizer to work. However, everytime I click on the stonesense app to run, it says
The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0150002). Click OK to terminate the application.
I don't have Visual studio on my com, is that the reason why?
Any help is much appreciated :)
Like japa said - installing vs 2005 and then, after reboot installing vs 2005 sp1 helped me suddenly(despite of having both already). tbh, i reinstalled every netcf and vs2008 too in desperate search for solution.
And it works now.
Question: is there any chance for making stonesense able to be used from another computer connected by local network? I realized that my machine is too slow to use that great program, i could imagine some kind of client-server data exchange to allow using another machine for stonesense...
upd: hmm i remember maxivista - this may be temporary method, damn.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 09:21:58 am
Post by: McBeer on September 07, 2010, 09:26:04 am
Quote
windows remote desktop works great, actually.allright, but which machine is making calculations, then?
you know what i mean - i am trying to use second's machine horsepower for stonesense's calculations, not just as second monitor(i could plug in second monitor to DF machine, but that's not the point).
for same reason i doubt, that maxivista is able to help me too(need to check how it works exactly, i dont remember..).
btw, about vs2005 woes - i needed to make new firewall rules(for Stonesense) after vs2005's install. then Stonesense worked fine. For some reason Comodo asked me, as if i launch new program suddenly(at this point i was sure it will work).
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 09:31:50 am
Post by: belannaer on September 07, 2010, 09:34:00 am
Post by: RaptorFarmer on September 07, 2010, 10:35:35 am
Re-installing VC++ 2005 did help with my previous error, though. It was something about syncing, or whatever.
Post by: Fayceless on September 07, 2010, 11:33:34 am
So...stonesense (or vc++2005?) hates XP SP3?
Post by: MaximumZero on September 07, 2010, 12:07:13 pm
Post by: RaptorFarmer on September 07, 2010, 01:37:42 pm
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 08:49:28 pm
I think I see a pattern here... :P
Post by: Fayceless on September 07, 2010, 09:46:36 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on September 07, 2010, 10:03:23 pm
no problems on Win7 either.
I think I see a pattern here... :P
Well, Vista was made of a combination of suck and more suck, so that may be the problem.
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 10:05:31 pm
Post by: McBeer on September 07, 2010, 11:00:30 pm
I get the feeling it's not Stonesense's fault...I think my computer just doesn't get along with this vc2005 stuff....i think exactly opposite. it's builder version woe.
but like i said, it is fixable on user way.
for those with problem, try this one(
http://www.easy-share.com/1912193426/vcredist_x86.zip
for some reason, I found few redists of 2005 SP1...that one fixed my 0x prob.
other ones did not.
i spent whole goddamn night for testing yesterday.
btw, i have xpsp3 pro 32bit(
Post by: Rose on September 07, 2010, 11:06:12 pm
also, you use the same redist regardless of your windows version, because stonesense is a 32bit program.
Post by: JAFANZ on September 08, 2010, 05:09:03 am
there's links to both 2005 and 2005sp1 in the OP.
also, you use the same redist regardless of your windows version, because stonesense is a 32bit program.
Yeah, I just tried all 3, with reboots after installing each of the ones in the OP, those 2 didn't help.
McBeers did & I didn't even need to reboot.
Strangely McBeers has the same file version # as the non-SP1 one from the OP, but is a couple of hundred KiB larger than either of them.
Oh, & Japa is right about it being perfectly viable to use the "x86" even if you're not on a wintel, I'm running XP Pro SP2 on a Turion 64x2.
Post by: McBeer on September 08, 2010, 05:13:58 am
If so, i am glad that it helped(and Japa, please, add this redist to first page then - we can save peoples time).
Quote
but is a couple of hundred KiB larger than either of them.just another build, imho, but, generally, this is weird(although from experience with windowsmobile systems building, i am aware, how using different dll subversions can have a big difference)..
Quote
McBeers has the same file versionversion reported by exe examination won't show you dlls versions embedded into exe installer, you know...
also, even, if it is not matter of dlls, it may be matter of i.e. one different vs's manifest, or whatever.
By looking at VS forums i can see weird inconsistency of vs'es with redists here and there(resulting in 0xc0150002 errors)..nvmd.
Enough technicals, have fun :)
Post by: jonask84 on September 08, 2010, 05:30:06 am
The version of "Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package " in the OP didn't work, but this one did:
http://www.easy-share.com/1912193426/vcredist_x86.zip
Is that right?
Post by: RaptorFarmer on September 08, 2010, 10:36:22 am
Post by: Tommy on September 08, 2010, 11:05:28 am
Post by: Fayceless on September 08, 2010, 11:09:02 am
Post by: CobaltKobold on September 08, 2010, 02:34:19 pm
Post by: McBeer on September 08, 2010, 02:45:39 pm
Again, i am glad i could help.
Post by: Granite on September 09, 2010, 12:01:37 am
After a whole day trying to compile dfhack and allegro (with success, apparently), I tried to compile Stonesense. On that attempt I did:
Code: [Select]
svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk stonesense
cd stonesense/build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
makeUntil 'make' everything goes well, but then:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The messages
Quote
/home/henio/Jogos/stonesense/common.h:13:34: error: allegro5/allegro_ttf.h: Arquivo ou diretório não encontradoare in portuguese, and 'Arquivo ou diretório não encontrado' means 'File or directory not found'.
/home/henio/Jogos/stonesense/common.h:15:44: error: allegro5/allegro_native_dialog.h: Arquivo ou diretório não encontrado
/home/henio/Jogos/stonesense/common.h:21:20: error: DFHack.h: Arquivo ou diretório não encontrado
/home/henio/Jogos/stonesense/common.h:22:32: error: dfhack/DFTileTypes.h: Arquivo ou diretório não encontrado
Can anybody help me getting stonesense to run?
I'm under Linux Mandriva 2010 Spring x86_64.
Hęnio
Post by: nbilling on September 09, 2010, 01:23:34 am
Hello,
After a whole day trying to compile dfhack and allegro (with success, apparently), I tried to compile Stonesense. On that attempt I did:Code: [Select]svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk stonesense
cd stonesense/build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
make
Until 'make' everything goes well, but then:
Same problem for me, but in Ubuntu. The dfhack problem you have there I fixed by installing dfhack from the git repo (in the stonesense "ON COMPILING.txt" file). The problem with allegro is a complete mystery to me. I have the latest allegro from svn, the two files (allegro5/allegro_ttf.h and allegro5/allegro_native_dialog.h) definitely do exist, and most puzzling of all is that the compiler can see the other .h files in the very same folder. It only complains about allegro_ttf.h and allegro_native_dialog.h.
edit:
Code: [Select]
#include <allegro5/allegro.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_primitives.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_font.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_ttf.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_image.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_native_dialog.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_opengl.h>
#include <allegro5/utf8.h>this is inside common.h, the lines it doesn't like are the 3rd and 5th there, why can it find all the rest of the files and not those ones, when they are all there!?
Post by: jonask84 on September 09, 2010, 02:29:45 am
This is n-th time when someone seem to have problem with this.
...
As usual, very sorry for posting, then.
I don't think that's what CK meant :) I think he was simply pointing out that it would be simpler for everyone if I had had the foresight to split the thread a little while back instead having it grow to the now lumbering colossus it is. And he's right of course, I'll have to think about that.
It seems the version you linked for some reason is working, while MS' solution is not. This is kinda strange tbh, but I'm gonna go ahead and link it in the OP since it seems to be helping people. Thanks for figuring this out for everyone McBeer :D
Quote
why can it find all the rest of the files and not those ones, when they are all there!?The mysteries of C, eh. What happens if you change the order of them around a little?
Post by: peterix on September 09, 2010, 07:02:12 am
Are they? I think not :)Hello,
After a whole day trying to compile dfhack and allegro (with success, apparently), I tried to compile Stonesense. On that attempt I did:Code: [Select]svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk stonesense
cd stonesense/build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
make
Until 'make' everything goes well, but then:
Same problem for me, but in Ubuntu. The dfhack problem you have there I fixed by installing dfhack from the git repo (in the stonesense "ON COMPILING.txt" file). The problem with allegro is a complete mystery to me. I have the latest allegro from svn, the two files (allegro5/allegro_ttf.h and allegro5/allegro_native_dialog.h) definitely do exist, and most puzzling of all is that the compiler can see the other .h files in the very same folder. It only complains about allegro_ttf.h and allegro_native_dialog.h.
edit:Code: [Select]#include <allegro5/allegro.h>this is inside common.h, the lines it doesn't like are the 3rd and 5th there, why can it find all the rest of the files and not those ones, when they are all there!?
#include <allegro5/allegro_primitives.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_font.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_ttf.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_image.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_native_dialog.h>
#include <allegro5/allegro_opengl.h>
#include <allegro5/utf8.h>
On Linux, stonesense uses the system-provided allegro, so look into /usr/include/allegro5/ first. Chances are that when you built allegro, you haven't had all the dependencies and some parts weren't built.
Post by: Rose on September 09, 2010, 10:15:34 am
you need to make sure you have everythng for a full compile.
Post by: Granite on September 09, 2010, 11:22:37 am
Are they? I think not :)Humrum... That path does not exist. Ok, I'll try to guess what I've done wrong.
On Linux, stonesense uses the system-provided allegro, so look into /usr/include/allegro5/ first. Chances are that when you built allegro, you haven't had all the dependencies and some parts weren't built.
Post by: Rose on September 09, 2010, 11:24:00 am
you gotta use the latest version, which doesn't have a version number.
Post by: Granite on September 09, 2010, 11:38:40 am
Sorry if I sound like a retard, but to install this, all I have to do is compiling it? Do I need to get rid of the version already installed first?
Post by: Rose on September 09, 2010, 11:43:39 am
it's recommended to use something like checkinstall to make things easier to remove afterwards.
Post by: Beeskee on September 09, 2010, 03:03:19 pm
(http://a.imageshack.us/img834/1466/screenshot1ty.th.png) (http://img834.imageshack.us/i/screenshot1ty.png/)
http://yfrog.com/n6screenshot1typ
full size: http://a.imageshack.us/img834/1466/screenshot1ty.png
I'm collecting cedar blocks so I can make the inn a uniform color.
The tower looks very ephemeral now. New features are the power plant, located on the brook, and The BearWall.
In the center is the unnamed mist generator building. 2 more floors are planned, one misty and one with equipment. I may build it taller even. :D
What's up with the obsidian? Yo? I thought it was going to be Hawt Pink? ;)
Edit: Ultima Online did a lot of it's sprites in grayscale and just applied a palette to them. I don't know how stonesense does it, if it does it that way or an easier way, just mentioning it because I happened to remember it.
Edit2: Yeah I don't know what is going on with that mule. ... I just got an elf caravan, maybe it was that coming onto the map.
Post by: McBeer on September 09, 2010, 03:05:41 pm
Post by: Andir on September 09, 2010, 03:43:19 pm
Post by: Beeskee on September 09, 2010, 04:36:17 pm
The mist itself doesn't show up.
Spoiler: Close up (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 1st floor (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: 2nd floor (click to show/hide)
Post by: CobaltKobold on September 09, 2010, 06:38:16 pm
I don't think that's what CK meant :) I think she was simply pointing out that it would be simpler for everyone if I had had the foresight to split the thread a little while back instead having it grow to the now lumbering colossus it is. And she's right of course, I'll have to think about that.Yes, I was not complaining about anyone in particular or any "you should have read this" but rather my message is "these people with bug reports keep making me think artists are contributing, code is getting written, etc etc"
Post by: Rose on September 09, 2010, 08:56:09 pm
What's up with the obsidian? Yo? I thought it was going to be Hawt Pink? ;)If you want hot pink opsidian, it's rediculously easy to change. just open colors/inorganic_layer.xml, and change the color for obsidian.
Edit: Ultima Online did a lot of it's sprites in grayscale and just applied a palette to them. I don't know how stonesense does it, if it does it that way or an easier way, just mentioning it because I happened to remember it.That;s exactly how stonesense does it.
Edit2: Yeah I don't know what is going on with that mule. ... I just got an elf caravan, maybe it was that coming onto the map.mules are officially cursed animals. you're lucky it's a normal color, they often aren't.
Post by: Beeskee on September 09, 2010, 11:25:37 pm
Spoiler: Inn upgrade: Complete (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Bonus: BearWall (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on September 09, 2010, 11:39:02 pm
Post by: Beeskee on September 09, 2010, 11:55:32 pm
Spoiler: I'm not sure if it's an improvement. (click to show/hide)
There's just... so much bear.
I keep thinking of them as "emergency food".
Post by: Innominate on September 10, 2010, 01:25:44 am
There's just... so much bear.Because, in an emergency, they'll use your dwarves as food?
I keep thinking of them as "emergency food".
Post by: Star Guarded on September 10, 2010, 04:35:09 am
ps loving the new release. great job everyone.
Post by: Rose on September 10, 2010, 04:37:55 am
Post by: Star Guarded on September 10, 2010, 04:38:40 am
Unlikeley, as the demons tend to be randomised, which means you either have to have a generic demon sprite, not much better then the questionmark, or a sprite specific to your fort, which has limited resale value.indeed, that's what I thought the problem would be :( I'll have some made, though I doubt they'll be very useful for the official release.
Post by: Rose on September 10, 2010, 04:45:44 am
Post by: Star Guarded on September 10, 2010, 04:46:30 am
they'd still be fine for that little project of yours, thoughthat's the idea : ) i assume forgotten beasts can be sprited, too?
edit: thanks!
Post by: Rose on September 10, 2010, 04:50:24 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 10, 2010, 05:23:24 am
And btw, that house with the skylights looks amazing!
Post by: belannaer on September 10, 2010, 05:48:46 am
Post by: Beeskee on September 10, 2010, 09:31:43 am
I keep thinking of them as "emergency food".Because, in an emergency, they'll use your dwarves as food?
Yeah, sure, you can think that if you want to. Help yourself to a grizzly bear sweetbread roast while you're here. ;)
Post by: Jadael on September 10, 2010, 01:05:14 pm
Post by: devek on September 10, 2010, 01:09:17 pm
Make a clown sprite...
Post by: Rose on September 10, 2010, 01:10:17 pm
Post by: Beeskee on September 10, 2010, 01:32:13 pm
hahaha Beeskee, I'm loving that bear wall :D
And btw, that house with the skylights looks amazing!
Thanks. :)
The house is actually an inn, and though of course no humans ever use it in-game, I can pretend they do.
Clear glass walls and floors look amazing. So does green glass. :D
Post by: Andir on September 10, 2010, 02:02:45 pm
Post by: Star Guarded on September 10, 2010, 04:28:42 pm
Actually a generic demon sprite would probably be way better than a floating purple question mark.there will be at least a generic demon sprite since I need to get one made and I'll post it here if anyone else wants to use it (assuming the artist doesn't also post it here). I'm talking with beefmo at the moment and he seems interested.
Post by: dyze on September 10, 2010, 06:12:22 pm
would it be technically possible to do this?
(http://www.pukanec.sk/en/i/historia/mikulas_okno.jpg)
the rounded top ..i guess it'd require some coding to insert the appropriate stone behind there.
Post by: Reese on September 10, 2010, 06:55:45 pm
i was thinking a bit about windows ..they look kinda ..modern right now?
would it be technically possible to do this?
(http://www.pukanec.sk/en/i/historia/mikulas_okno.jpg)
the rounded top ..i guess it'd require some coding to insert the appropriate stone behind there.
I like this idea, but I would love for adjacent windows (including vertically adjacent) to merge, so that a large stained glass window could be produced... if lead were used for window construction (authentically, it would have been) I would say use gray or dark gray borders between panes, and making the outward part match adjacent stone would be the icing on the cake.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on September 11, 2010, 11:50:44 pm
i was thinking a bit about windows ..they look kinda ..modern right now?
would it be technically possible to do this?
(http://www.pukanec.sk/en/i/historia/mikulas_okno.jpg)
the rounded top ..i guess it'd require some coding to insert the appropriate stone behind there.
The only way I can think to do this, would be for the window to detect the material of the floor it's built on.
I like this idea, but I would love for adjacent windows (including vertically adjacent) to merge, so that a large stained glass window could be produced... if lead were used for window construction (authentically, it would have been) I would say use gray or dark gray borders between panes, and making the outward part match adjacent stone would be the icing on the cake.
An "iswindow" attribute might manage this, assuming objects run the same system as terrain.
---
Also can I get an attribute for "inside"/"outside" If it's not too much trouble?
Post by: Rose on September 12, 2010, 02:09:02 am
Post by: belannaer on September 12, 2010, 07:22:32 am
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/Dwarf%20Fortress/preview.png)
Post by: Andir on September 12, 2010, 02:25:03 pm
Post by: Deon on September 12, 2010, 02:38:58 pm
Post by: jonask84 on September 12, 2010, 02:44:35 pm
And you don't HAVE to make all the color stuff and the professions, that's just another option :)
Post by: Rose on September 12, 2010, 04:30:39 pm
Post by: Deon on September 12, 2010, 06:29:12 pm
Post by: belannaer on September 13, 2010, 03:21:11 am
Well I really love the color and profession stuff, it makes it easy to see it on my named dwarves without peeking in everyone's description.
I like the colors and professions too. It's fairly easy to do them if you use a base body for all of the dwarves. You just need to create a shading overlay for the clothing and then apply it in right colours for all of them. I did this with my goblins and in short time you can have all your dwarves/goblins differentiated by profession colours. This of course makes most of the dwarves look fairly similar but just the clothing colours and other profession related gear makes already wonders. Also Some gear needs a bit adjusting to the base body positions. On the other hand I kinda like that all of them look fairly uniform.
Because I made those goblins earlier I have a lot of useful material already done (not all was used in goblins) that can be applied to the dwarves and it's fairly fast to make them now. I did yesterday 25 professions, with colours and gear, in few hours. You can also double that amount because I made both sexes, although I'm not 100% happy with the female base sprite yet.
Yeah he is not short enough. Otherwise he's cool.
They look quite tall when compared to human sprites for example but size in Stonesense is quite abstract anyways when you compared dwarves to cats and elephants, they are all the same size. Also I'm not overly fond of overstunted dwarves that look like Cartman with beard. I might consider making it a tiny bit (pixel or two) shorter but that also eats those couple of pixel of height that could be used for additional details.
I kinda like the looks of dwarves in the picture below. I have to try clothing that makes their legs look less pants like and thus shorter. (I even made the hats they have!)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And you don't HAVE to make all the color stuff and the professions, that's just another option :)
Yes you (and by you I mean me) have to ;)
although, the color stuff is pretty easy to do. take a look at gobbos.xml to get an idea how to do it. (It's the one with the fewest actual sprites)
I tried taking look at the colour_Dwarves.xml earlier and actually tried with no success for some reason. I'll have to try it again during weekend as it would be great to get those colours automatically. Although I'm not sure whether some colours or any will work with the sprites I have now but it's not that much work to actually separate those skin and hair layers when you have good base models. Then it's just a bit of cut&paste and recoloring to apply them.
I might need to ask some specifics about it from you when I've given some testing on it. Especially on how the shading is done and how the layers work etc.
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2010, 05:48:17 am
Post by: belannaer on September 13, 2010, 06:24:35 am
I actually wrote a little tutorial here (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Adding_Creatures), that shows the various options. it's very slightly outdated now, but still useful.
It looks nice. I have already some ideas what to do with it, although I'll probably still want to colour a lot of stuff by hand unless I get enough brightness variation and stuff with it.
As a sidenote I just read all 274 pages of the topic for inspiration...
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2010, 07:03:24 am
Post by: Raging Mouse on September 13, 2010, 07:06:10 am
Yeah he is not short enough. Otherwise he's cool.
They look quite tall when compared to human sprites for example but size in Stonesense is quite abstract anyways when you compared dwarves to cats and elephants, they are all the same size. Also I'm not overly fond of overstunted dwarves that look like Cartman with beard. I might consider making it a tiny bit (pixel or two) shorter but that also eats those couple of pixel of height that could be used for additional details.
Forgive this total idiot from pitching in with a most probably inane and useless suggestion, but since size is relative anyways, would it be possible to add a few pixels to their width and achieve the same effect as removing some from their height?
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2010, 07:08:59 am
Post by: Jayce on September 13, 2010, 07:39:01 am
Post by: Greiger on September 13, 2010, 07:42:06 am
Post by: jonask84 on September 13, 2010, 07:50:41 am
Post by: Jayce on September 13, 2010, 07:59:59 am
Post by: belannaer on September 13, 2010, 09:58:06 am
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/test2.png)
Added highlights:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/test3.png)
And tweaked more:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/test4.png)
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2010, 10:06:47 am
Post by: belannaer on September 13, 2010, 10:13:40 am
Post by: Rose on September 13, 2010, 10:15:19 am
Post by: lowbart on September 13, 2010, 01:50:36 pm
Does Granite have a full-map-screenshot function? Ctrl-F5 doesn't work for me, it just makes a normal screenshot.
Post by: JanusTwoface on September 13, 2010, 01:58:53 pm
Hey, I have a possibly dumb question. I'm using Stonesense Granite because I stubbornly insist on sticking with 40d until DF2010 reaches its final release.
Out of curiosity, why? 40d never reached a final version itself, there were all the 40d# releases which worked with the graphical code (added some nice features like on the fly resizing). Granted 0.31 was rather buggy when it first came out, but it's gotten to a rather playable for by now...
Does Granite have a full-map-screenshot function? Ctrl-F5 doesn't work for me, it just makes a normal screenshot.
On to the actual question, I'm 90% sure that the answer is no (Japa could answer for sure). The code that would take the screenshots was developed sometime between Granite and Slate so far as I can tell.
Post by: Lord Vetinari on September 13, 2010, 01:59:56 pm
Post by: lordnincompoop on September 13, 2010, 02:13:20 pm
I tried today the latest version of stonesense. The window went black when the season changed and I had to restart the program.
Why, hello Havelock. Having fun on Roundworld?
Unfortunantely, I don't know what's causing this. You'll have to wait for other guys to answer it.
Post by: jonask84 on September 14, 2010, 03:18:45 am
I tried today the latest version of stonesense. The window went black when the season changed and I had to restart the program.
Thanks for the heads up, that's a new one. I assume this only happened once right?
Post by: Lord Vetinari on September 14, 2010, 04:59:55 am
Why, hello Havelock. Having fun on Roundworld?
Quite. However, these dwarves are harder to manage than the one I'm used to. Those ones are happy with a couple of rats and bread made of stone.
Thanks for the heads up, that's a new one. I assume this only happened once right?
Up to now, yes, but I played just a couple of minutes yesterday evening and I didn't see another change of season.
Post by: Rose on September 14, 2010, 05:12:45 am
I tried today the latest version of stonesense. The window went black when the season changed and I had to restart the program.
Why, hello Havelock. Having fun on Roundworld?
you say that like the DF world is round.
It's square, you dimwit.
Post by: Andir on September 14, 2010, 06:16:24 am
It's more of a cube... but with variable blocks sticking out on two sides.I tried today the latest version of stonesense. The window went black when the season changed and I had to restart the program.
Why, hello Havelock. Having fun on Roundworld?
you say that like the DF world is round.
It's square, you dimwit.
(Edit: Kind of like this: http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-13586794/stock-photo-background-of-metallic-cubes-rendered-in-d.html )
Post by: MaximumZero on September 14, 2010, 07:35:35 am
Post by: Innominate on September 14, 2010, 08:38:52 am
Didn't we determine that Dwarves live on an Omnihedron?I thought dwarves lived in the little moments of madness and desperation where you don't think you'll ever truly wake up from a nightmare.
Post by: Andir on September 14, 2010, 10:27:15 am
You "air-lock" all your migrants in individual rooms and only feed them when they get to the point of starving as well?Didn't we determine that Dwarves live on an Omnihedron?I thought dwarves lived in the little moments of madness and desperation where you don't think you'll ever truly wake up from a nightmare.
Post by: lordnincompoop on September 14, 2010, 10:39:06 am
I tried today the latest version of stonesense. The window went black when the season changed and I had to restart the program.
Why, hello Havelock. Having fun on Roundworld?
you say that like the DF world is round.
It's square, you dimwit.
I mean Earth. It's yet another reference, in case you didn't get that.
Jeez.
Post by: Rose on September 14, 2010, 10:50:15 am
Post by: Reese on September 14, 2010, 11:28:27 am
hey, I'm practically the TA of the professor of cruel and unusual geography.
You must get a lot of exercise catching up with him to discuss lesson plans...
Post by: lordnincompoop on September 14, 2010, 11:32:06 am
Post by: MaximumZero on September 14, 2010, 11:34:07 am
Post by: Osmosis Jones on September 14, 2010, 11:53:01 am
Any book with Vimes = pure awesomesauce.
Post by: lordnincompoop on September 14, 2010, 11:55:32 am
Read "The Colour of Magic" or "Going Postal" and you'll find out.
I already did. I've read almost every Discworld book he's made so far.
EDIT: And I still don't understand why there's so many on this particular forum.
Post by: Andir on September 14, 2010, 12:00:58 pm
Post by: MaximumZero on September 14, 2010, 12:15:59 pm
Read "The Colour of Magic" or "Going Postal" and you'll find out.
I already did. I've read almost every Discworld book he's made so far.
EDIT: And I still don't understand why there's so many on this particular forum.
Pratchett writes high fantasy with humor. DF is high fantasy (minus magic, for now) with Fun. Similar structure, similar fanbase.
Post by: Xzalander on September 15, 2010, 08:28:56 pm
Quote
The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0150002).
I assume its because I'm missing a file of some sort... any clues?
Post by: Truean on September 15, 2010, 10:18:08 pm
Failing that, it is a new version and I'm not even sure the files are out yet for the updates. Keep in mind that at this time 31.13 is less than a day old.
Post by: Rose on September 15, 2010, 10:36:32 pm
Post by: glitchpop on September 16, 2010, 12:11:02 am
Here's hoping?
Post by: jonask84 on September 16, 2010, 02:06:30 am
I've been hunting around all over the place trying to work out if there is Mac version of Stonesense? Or one planned? I've seen the question but no answer...
Here's hoping?
We'd love to have one, but we don't have any mac developers to make one. Right now it's all about getting the dependencies and building it on an individual basis. I know some people have been doing it.
Post by: glitchpop on September 16, 2010, 04:42:15 am
Post by: Xzalander on September 16, 2010, 08:46:14 am
it usually takes a few days to get the offsets for a new version but this one is all mixed around due to the new compiler, so it's probably gonna take a bit longer.
Oh yeah definately, but the problem isnt with Stonesense.. its with my computer.
Im using the stonesense provided in the lazy newb pack, and before reinstalling windows it was working fine... now same LNP is downloaded but I have a fresh windows install... now it doesnt work so Im wondering just what is different on my pc. Stonesense isnt at fault.
Edit: Oh and Ive already downloaded the C++ requirements.. its now default part of Vista Updating.. ;p
Haha, oddly.. I decided to reinstall the third link for the third time.. and now it works. Solved :D
So I get to show you all,The base layers of the central Keep.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dante on September 16, 2010, 05:12:18 pm
Why are there so many Pratchett fans in Bay12 anyway?Because there is a high correlation between awesomeness and the property of being awesome?
Post by: ShDragon on September 16, 2010, 08:48:59 pm
Just to be sure, I downloaded them and tried to install them again and I still can't run Stonesense. Anyone have any other ideas?
Post by: CobaltKobold on September 17, 2010, 11:29:51 am
40d never reached a final version itselfIt was the end product of the .40- since there was no 40e deemed required.
Post by: JanusTwoface on September 17, 2010, 11:38:45 am
40d never reached a final version itselfIt was the end product of the .40- since there was no 40e deemed required.
-ish. The gameplay stopped changing, but the graphics engine got quite an update. So I agree and disagree... :-\
Post by: TOMzors on September 17, 2010, 12:10:48 pm
that and his dwarves are pretty awesome :) and elves... much more how i see elves :D murdering sadists... strangely fitting Dwarf Fortress really... with a bit of modding lol :D
anyway... DF > Discworld...
the jump between .40d19(?) and 31.** is mainly due to the intruduction of many new features... so carrying on the numbering didn't work... that and each iteration of .40d was just further refining the code (to my understanding) to try and find the fastest and most stable way of displaying the graphics using sdl :)
fun stuff...
btw, i haven't suffered this problem yet... and i can't find much reason why it should be happening... on the 5 PCs i've tried it on it worked on 4 first time... and the 5th worked after a restart...
Post by: Azkanan on September 18, 2010, 05:45:49 am
Post by: Rose on September 18, 2010, 07:07:50 am
Post by: Azkanan on September 18, 2010, 07:18:33 am
Post by: belannaer on September 19, 2010, 09:18:23 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some of the skin colours work fine but some... not so well. Clothing colours on the other hand work pretty nicely (ton of peasants in the pic). Have to work on some gear to add on them. Sorry for large pic.
Post by: Greiger on September 19, 2010, 08:10:00 pm
*my fancy name for it from lack of an official name
Post by: James.Denholm on September 21, 2010, 01:51:11 am
Just like how all the Half-life 2 civilians wore dark blue clothing.
Therefore, Toady's overall subliminal message is that the player is a massive, teleketic slug thing.
Post by: Rose on September 21, 2010, 02:36:18 am
hm I was unaware you could use the get color from part function* and still have clothing color for professions. I may need to take advantage of that...
*my fancy name for it from lack of an official name
Hair:- Get color from part: hair
Skin:- Get color from part: skin
Clothes:- Get color from profession
it's also not hard to have entireley different sprites per profession, but that means more drawing.
Post by: krenshala on September 21, 2010, 09:14:19 am
... the player is a massive, teleketic slug thing.well ... depending on how long the player spends in the comfy computer chair each day ... :o ??? ;D
Post by: belannaer on September 21, 2010, 12:46:00 pm
it's also not hard to have entireley different sprites per profession, but that means more drawing.
Since you can construct everything from layers now it is not that hard to make every profession have unique look with fairly little work. I have basic model with skin, hair and clothes that get colour and on top of that I lay layers with weapons, additional clothes etc. and on top of that I lay some more coloured layers if for example the hand positions change. It's not that much more drawing really but the xml file becomes MASSIVE, especially with both sexes. I'm also wondering if it will impact performance if every profession has like 5-10 sublayers.
And because picture speaks more than words here is what I do with my dwarves:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/dwarf_test-1.png)
Top row is male dwarves, second row is females, third is gear for masons etc, fourth is woodcutters etc.
Post by: krenshala on September 21, 2010, 02:21:53 pm
Post by: CobaltKobold on September 21, 2010, 05:15:55 pm
it's also not hard to have entireley different sprites per profession, but that means more drawing.
Since you can construct everything from layers now it is not that hard to make every profession have unique look with fairly little work. I have basic model with skin, hair and clothes that get colour and on top of that I lay layers with weapons, additional clothes etc. and on top of that I lay some more coloured layers if for example the hand positions change. It's not that much more drawing really but the xml file becomes MASSIVE, especially with both sexes. I'm also wondering if it will impact performance if every profession has like 5-10 sublayers.
And because picture speaks more than words here is what I do with my dwarves:
(http://i739.photobucket.com/albums/xx38/belannaer/dwarf_test-1.png)
Top row is male dwarves, second row is females, third is gear for masons etc, fourth is woodcutters etc.
demopic.cough. Ignoring for the moment that I am not the best of sprite artists.
(http://img138.imageshack.us/img138/3728/draworder.gif)
Certainly makes creating the sprites easy. <3 layers.
Post by: jonask84 on September 22, 2010, 02:03:57 am
Post by: Rose on September 22, 2010, 03:16:48 am
Post by: belannaer on September 22, 2010, 03:56:05 am
There is also a distinct possibility of getting the materials for clothes.
If there is going to be a support for materials in code can the xml handle if cases? IF METAL use sublayer ELSE use this sublayer etc.
Post by: Rose on September 22, 2010, 04:08:48 am
Post by: Azkanan on September 22, 2010, 04:43:51 pm
Post by: Rose on September 22, 2010, 09:14:53 pm
right now, we've managed to get everything but creatures to wrk. we'll release when they do.
Post by: Azkanan on September 23, 2010, 04:13:30 am
Post by: lazylonelion on September 27, 2010, 11:21:45 am
And -- yes, I'm waiting for it too.
P.S. Used it with 40d last time
Post by: Sergius on September 28, 2010, 11:28:24 am
Is there a way to make ramps appear "smooth" if they're "anchored" to a smoothed wall? Like, it can be altered in the Stonesense raws or does that have to be modified at the source code level.
Post by: Rose on September 28, 2010, 12:19:07 pm
Post by: lordnincompoop on September 28, 2010, 01:15:43 pm
Post by: Sergius on September 28, 2010, 02:35:57 pm
as far as I know, no, it would require sourcecode changes, as ramps in DF cannot actually be smoothed, so the surrounding tiles would need to be checked for smoothness, and overall, it's a huge can of worms.
Well, the program already checks around every ramp to see if there are walls to determine the ramp orientation, so it's probably a much smaller can of worms...
Post by: Rose on September 28, 2010, 03:11:28 pm
Post by: Sergius on September 28, 2010, 03:46:53 pm
how many of the surrounding walls need to be smooth before the ramp is counted as one?
Doesn't really matter. Just like stairs only actually care if there's a wall on the upper left OR the upper right, but if there isn't, it'll default to one. Or if there's both walls, it'll also default to one.
So make it so all relevant walls have to be smoothed. Or if only one needs to be smoothed. Anyway unless there's some consistency in the fortress design itself, worst case, it looks unsmoothed, just like it is now.
Post by: roland_ on October 01, 2010, 05:54:28 pm
Can anybody verify this works with 31.13? I'm trying, but not connecting - with the xml update.
Sorry, can't verify this.
I've tried to run it with 31.12, because it would be compatible. But it didn't work. I've tried everything - dwarf fortress and stonesense in the same folder, the new xml-update, even the Microsoft Visual C++ Packages - still nothing.
Also, I didn't know the right way to start. Should I run dwarf fortress first, then stonesense? Or first stonesense and then it starts dwarf fortress automaticly? Or habe I first to create a world in dwarf fortress? Short: What is the right way and what is a real functional, compatible version? After reading the last 25 entrys of this huge thread, a FAQ would be nice (or more troubleshooting).
And sorry for my rusty english ;) Thanks in advance for helping.
Post by: Rose on October 03, 2010, 02:27:50 am
you can get that from the DFhack thread. I'm pretty sure there's precompiled ones available.
Post by: Reygar on October 03, 2010, 07:55:38 am
Post by: Deon on October 03, 2010, 08:03:15 am
Post by: lordnincompoop on October 03, 2010, 10:30:15 am
Post by: Reygar on October 03, 2010, 11:32:16 am
Did you get the correct memory xml and the latest DFhack.dll as Japa suggested just above your post? More info is needed to help :).
im not sure if ive got the latest Hack and correct memory xml, how can i check?
Post by: roland_ on October 03, 2010, 11:56:50 am
yeah, you need, in adtion to the latest memory.xml, the latest DFhack.dll.
you can get that from the DFhack thread. I'm pretty sure there's precompiled ones available.
Thanks. I've the latest memory.xml, but have not tried the DFhack.dll. I give it a try :)
Post by: castun on October 04, 2010, 11:06:51 am
Are there future plans to display objects such as barrels? I just wish my storerooms didn't look oh so empty.
Post by: aragaer on October 04, 2010, 02:05:07 pm
Post by: Rose on October 05, 2010, 07:14:07 am
if cmake can't find them, telling it not to won't fix the fact that they aren't there.
Post by: aragaer on October 05, 2010, 08:31:47 am
Post by: Rose on October 05, 2010, 08:51:47 am
those are all windows stuff, specifically MSVC stuff.
Post by: aragaer on October 05, 2010, 09:36:13 am
Post by: aragaer on October 05, 2010, 01:29:20 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2010, 04:17:36 am
shameless bump!
btw, testing now with the new 0.5.0.2 df hack, getting still crashes on windows
Post by: Bellerophon on October 08, 2010, 04:25:59 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 08, 2010, 04:43:14 am
*you will also need to rotate stuff to give command behind slopes and walls such, so it's actually worse than the top down view.
Post by: BigJake on October 08, 2010, 04:58:29 am
Post by: Hieronymus on October 08, 2010, 11:45:47 am
Thanks in advance for any help offered!
Post by: anqxyr on October 08, 2010, 12:08:17 pm
Stonesense it simply displays the connecting screen for a long while before a Microsoft runtime error comes upSame problem here. Also, if I replace memory.xml, but not dfhack.dll, Stonesense starts and works, but shows only terrain and buildings, no creatures, dwarfs or stockpiles. You could try this until better solution is found.
Post by: Jiri Petru on October 08, 2010, 12:29:33 pm
Stonesense it simply displays the connecting screen for a long while before a Microsoft runtime error comes upSame problem here. Also, if I replace memory.xml, but not dfhack.dll, Stonesense starts and works, but shows only terrain and buildings, no creatures, dwarfs or stockpiles. You could try this until better solution is found.
Nice find.
But it also shows no material colours. :-\
Post by: anqxyr on October 08, 2010, 12:54:29 pm
Post by: Raufgar on October 08, 2010, 09:24:43 pm
Total DF noob here, joining in having read with great interest the LP's for Boatmurdered et al. Just wondering if anyone could help me re: Stonesense. Having a bit of a nightmare getting it to work. I've downloaded the dfhack.dll, replaced the memory.xml with the latest version and all that, DF itself works fine, but anytime I try to run Stonesense it simply displays the connecting screen for a long while before a Microsoft runtime error comes up and the whole thing has to close.
Thanks in advance for any help offered!
Perhaps you can post up what version of Stonesense you're using, as well as the version of your DFHack & Dwarf Fortress. Oh, and your OS version as well.
Post by: Kortalh on October 09, 2010, 03:19:44 pm
I was using DF 31.14 previously, and it worked fine then. But it apparently didn't like me updating.
Post by: Rose on October 10, 2010, 01:36:05 am
Post by: 1LeftShroom on October 10, 2010, 01:51:43 am
Post by: Hieronymus on October 10, 2010, 09:01:43 am
Post by: Bellerophon on October 10, 2010, 07:51:35 pm
why would you replicate the exact same bad dwarf fortress interface in stonesense? if there are no enhancements done in the middle, it's useless*, and if there are, it's an helluvalot of work.
*you will also need to rotate stuff to give command behind slopes and walls such, so it's actually worse than the top down view.
So you don't need to view in one window then control in another.
Post by: Raufgar on October 10, 2010, 08:24:30 pm
why would you replicate the exact same bad dwarf fortress interface in stonesense? if there are no enhancements done in the middle, it's useless*, and if there are, it's an helluvalot of work.
*you will also need to rotate stuff to give command behind slopes and walls such, so it's actually worse than the top down view.
So you don't need to view in one window then control in another.
Not to whip a dead horse, but this functionality has been discussed many times before (please read the earlier posts in this thread), and the outcome is always the same: Stonesence is a visualizer, not an alternative input module. Said functionality is not provided because:
1) This is the Great Toady's game, and he has stated that he is extremely reluctant to develop a game where he has to wait for other, unoffical, functions to "play catch up" to his designs, just because said design is "unplayable" or "extremely hard to understand" (note my emphasis) without those functions.
2) Stonesence devs do not want to piss the Great Toady off, which might likely cause the Great Toady to stop developing DF.
3) The Great Toady did NOT say he's not considering a better User GUI, merely that it is not as important an issue as other major game functionalities that he needs to look at.
Post by: Ethicalfive on October 11, 2010, 12:57:12 am
Hell, with a few adjustments to stonesense and the help of something like autohotkeys to pass keypresses from stonesense to dwarf fortress, it should be achievable right now.
Also, re:Raufgar on point #1:
This is taken out of context, what toady one actually meant was that he was unwilling to bring other people in to help with his code(interface or otherwise), a third party application would not interupt his programming or releases in any way. At worst, it would break compatability with said third party app.
As for third party apps putting him off programming his game, after all the third party support that has come and gone on these threads, I find this to be a baseless comment, The great toad would not stop his programming except maybe if tomorrow a commercial alternative popped up with everything he ever wanted/planned for dwarf fortress.
Sorry for the long winded post, but lastly, anything the stonesense devs release could only ever be a gift to Toady, not an insult. If I were toady and someone built me a graphical front end out of good intentions alone, I know I would feel damn flattered.
Post by: Anathema on October 11, 2010, 01:24:14 am
Total DF noob here, joining in having read with great interest the LP's for Boatmurdered et al. Just wondering if anyone could help me re: Stonesense. Having a bit of a nightmare getting it to work. I've downloaded the dfhack.dll, replaced the memory.xml with the latest version and all that, DF itself works fine, but anytime I try to run Stonesense it simply displays the connecting screen for a long while before a Microsoft runtime error comes up and the whole thing has to close.
Thanks in advance for any help offered!
Recently came back to DF, with a fresh download of the latest version of everything* and I'm getting this same problem. Is anyone getting Stonesense to work with 31.16, or are we all waiting on a Stonesense update? If so, what's the latest DF version that does work with the current Stonesense?
*DF 31.16, Stonesense Slate 2.1, the dfhack.dll from 0.5.0.2, and the memory.xml linked in the first post, am I missing anything?
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 11, 2010, 02:41:02 am
I'm using stonesense 2.1 with the xml from 0.5.0.2. it doesn't show creatures and such, only the level. dunno if there are better combinations, I hear linux people are recompiling it so we may need a fresh windows build too.
Post by: Dub on October 13, 2010, 08:49:57 am
Post by: Kearn on October 13, 2010, 01:13:59 pm
help D:
Post by: Sowelu on October 13, 2010, 01:37:23 pm
Post by: BadSyntax on October 14, 2010, 08:42:46 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 15, 2010, 02:01:02 am
We're still having some issues with the MSVC build of Stonesense, the weird error some seems to be seeing.
I think for the next release we will try a mingw build or something like that, should work a lot better.
Honestly I have no idea what MSVC is up to.... :o
Post by: Neonivek on October 15, 2010, 05:11:40 am
Hi guys :)
We're still having some issues with the MSVC build of Stonesense, the weird error some seems to be seeing.
I think for the next release we will try a mingw build or something like that, should work a lot better.
Honestly I have no idea what MSVC is up to.... :o
MSVC: Mwahahahaaa, they will never find out my plans!
Post by: SuperLlama on October 17, 2010, 02:37:22 pm
I'm going to keep trying versions, maybe 31.11 will work...
--SNIPPED FIRST TWO EDITS--
EDIT: I got it working!!! It's awesome, thanks so much for this great tool :D
I used this (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_31_11_win.zip) version of DF with a fresh install of stonesense, and creatures are even working.
My two cents on the remote control thing is that eventually there should be a version of stonesense that can place itself overtop the usual DF viewport. The menus could stay, and it'd be for immersion purposes only. Any keystrokes would be sent to the normal game.
Post by: jonask84 on October 18, 2010, 02:59:56 am
Odd, it worked for me when I used 31.16, but it didn't show any creature/dwarf sprites. When I downgraded to 31.12, it didn't connect at all. I even tried building from the SVN source and while it compiled fine, it crashed on start. Weird.
I'm going to keep trying versions, maybe 31.11 will work...
--SNIPPED FIRST TWO EDITS--
EDIT: I got it working!!! It's awesome, thanks so much for this great tool :D
I used this (http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/df_31_11_win.zip) version of DF with a fresh install of stonesense, and creatures are even working.
My two cents on the remote control thing is that eventually there should be a version of stonesense that can place itself overtop the usual DF viewport. The menus could stay, and it'd be for immersion purposes only. Any keystrokes would be sent to the normal game.
Thanks for the feedback :) Our main focus right now is to try and make it more robust, so people won't have to go through any steps to get it running 8) But a remote control feature is something we're constantly evaluating.
Post by: Yakefa on October 18, 2010, 05:33:51 pm
I'm a graphist myself, and I'd like to bring my contribution, I assume everything hasn't been done and the game is growing permanently (or so).
I'm not aware of this, but is there a thread gathering people working on the visuals, with a list of missing templates, incoming stuffs etc?
Thanks.
By the way, this remote control would be a useful (and awaited) step ahead for the community. This game offers so much possibilities, this is pretty exciting.
Post by: Rose on October 18, 2010, 10:22:53 pm
you are always welcome to make your own artwork for stonesense, and there's even a place on the wiki to share it, but it needs to be in the same style as the existing stuff for it to be included in future releases.
Post by: jonask84 on October 19, 2010, 03:28:53 am
Neither of us developers are good with pixels, so we made the entire graphics system fully configurable. This means you can change all the Stonesense graphics as you wish or add new stuff.
In general you can draw whatever you feel is missing :)
Post by: Halnoth on October 19, 2010, 10:15:51 am
edit: Actually everything built is like that, floors (stone and metal) walls, bridges, furniture etc. Everything except glass.
Post by: Rose on October 19, 2010, 10:27:16 am
there should be an update pretty soon, actually.
Post by: tolkafox on October 19, 2010, 05:31:33 pm
Update the memory.xml and it works for .16, although there's still some problems with detection.
Post by: Yakefa on October 19, 2010, 08:53:03 pm
Is there a listing of what's left to do/add/doesn't exist yet?
Did an artist do a tutorial about making and adding sets? (not the programming, I mean the visual style/process).
Thanks!
Post by: Rose on October 19, 2010, 08:54:15 pm
Post by: jonask84 on October 20, 2010, 03:07:35 am
I'd like to know:
Is there a listing of what's left to do/add/doesn't exist yet?
Did an artist do a tutorial about making and adding sets? (not the programming, I mean the visual style/process).
Thanks!
Hey Yakefa, there isn't really a complete list like that. We actually have a lot of stuff already, which is great :)
Some things are still missing though, like the traction bench, and plenty of animals.
I guess the best way to do it is to look for something you feel you want to add, because it's missing or because you want to create an alternative sprite.
As for artist's tutorial we don't have an official one, try searching for general Pixel Art tutorials.
Good luck!
Post by: Yakefa on October 20, 2010, 08:07:49 am
I did a very few pixel art some years back, but I'm currently a concept artist, working on next gen/mobile stuffs, and I'd like to try something else.
I'm interested in everything you think could be interesting for me in order to start correctly.
You guys should write up a list with what has been done and what is left to do too ;) (and of course, tell me what you need).
Thanks!
Post by: sdwrage on October 20, 2010, 04:50:09 pm
Post by: sdwrage on October 20, 2010, 09:42:02 pm
OS: Windows 7 64-bit
DF Version: 31.16
Stonesense Version: 2.1
Memory XML file: http://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/data/Memory-ng.xml
Problems: No units are visible. I only see my cart.
Post by: Solifuge on October 21, 2010, 12:28:51 am
Message for Solifuge (in case those multiple PM's I sent didnt work - as I'm suspecting)
-message-
I got the PM. I just have a few long, busy 8+ hour days of school, plus Midterms this week. I'll get back to you with more details tomorrow.
Post by: rmunn on October 21, 2010, 05:49:29 am
Post by: jonask84 on October 21, 2010, 06:45:11 am
Post by: AlBravo on October 23, 2010, 08:22:36 am
Stonesense 2.1 Slate w/ Memory.xml from 1st page of this thread
Vista Home Premium 64bit
Stonesense works but can't see any dwarves.
Stonesense.log clip:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: jonask84 on October 25, 2010, 04:07:38 am
Just a quick mini-release to make sure we have a solid version with .16 support.
Some other minor fixes concerning stability and some color changes in clay and rock.
Nothing fancy, but I hope you enjoy it :)
Stonesense Slate 2.2 (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_2.2.zip)
Post by: buckets on October 25, 2010, 05:28:03 am
I know that there are already hotkeys and such, but a menu would totaly sweet.
Post by: Rose on October 25, 2010, 05:37:39 am
Post by: Hugo_The_Dwarf on October 25, 2010, 09:04:02 am
Post by: celem on October 25, 2010, 09:29:27 am
It's a mess, a godamn awful looking jumble..
Not your app, my fortress, I must abandon immediately and build something more aesthetically pleasing.
Thankyou Stonesense devs for pointing out how ugly anarchy can be
Post by: Rose on October 25, 2010, 09:43:43 am
Post by: anqxyr on October 25, 2010, 12:59:48 pm
Post by: Rizz on October 25, 2010, 03:05:58 pm
Thanks!
Post by: veok on October 25, 2010, 11:49:10 pm
Post by: Musashi on October 26, 2010, 06:13:12 am
Japa, you're the regular helper on this forum, when i start of DF and load up my fortress, and then open up stonesense, i press F9 and it then sits on CONNECTING TO DF and doesn't connect and leaves me on that screen; after a while my system just lags and slows down a godly amount. any ideas? or help?I got the very same issue! Except that Stonesense also just shuts down after 5 minutes or so.
Thanks!
Post by: jonask84 on October 26, 2010, 07:01:48 am
Also, try running both DF and Stonesense in admin mode, as there might be system-specific restrictions on memory access.
Post by: Jiri Petru on October 26, 2010, 08:54:42 am
Post by: Rizz on October 26, 2010, 03:58:09 pm
i tried running in Admin but somee crap about not being able to log on, i dont have any account on my laptop, so, i dont know, and i checked in the stonesense folder, i dont have any dfunstuck.exe only thing i have is Dfhack.DLL
EDIT: just downloaded the newest Stonesense gonna give unstuck a go.
EDIT AGAIN: HOLY SHIT IT WORKS NOW! I CAME BUCKETS WHEN I SAW MY FORTRESS IN ISOMETRIC, IT WORKS, MY LIFE IS COMPLETE ^.^
Post by: Sphalerite on October 26, 2010, 05:13:01 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not sure why there is are invisible animals clustered inside the barrier bridges on various map edges, and there's a barrier bridge on the south side of the map shown as lowered which I am sure is actually raised. The calculator array looks perfect.
Post by: Rose on October 26, 2010, 06:41:47 pm
dunno what's going on with the bridge though.
Post by: Johnfalcon99977 on October 27, 2010, 03:19:27 pm
Post by: Greiger on October 27, 2010, 06:34:49 pm
It even respects the adventurer's vision limits. Unless you hit H of course.
Post by: Rose on October 27, 2010, 09:51:53 pm
Post by: Immacolata on October 28, 2010, 12:38:09 am
Post by: Rose on October 28, 2010, 02:20:02 am
zones and stockpiles are swapped. but you still can't see what's on the stockpiles, since that requires showing items, and we can't do that yet.
Post by: Immacolata on October 28, 2010, 02:30:03 am
Btw I really love what Stonesense does to my Dwarf Fortiness experience. Applause!
Post by: jonask84 on October 28, 2010, 02:49:40 am
Right, thanks. Showing items would be awesome to have one day, or maybe not, depending on how much it would clutter your screen :D
Btw I really love what Stonesense does to my Dwarf Fortiness experience. Applause!
Thanks mate :) We really enjoy it too, that's how it started hehe
The items we could do, we have that info, the only problem is there is literally 7 billion of them in an average fort. We'd have to be mighty clever to parse them just right without crashing your CPU to hell and back :) But we've been experimenting with it, for sure.
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2010, 07:27:02 am
I love this program
and now, for let the steam off my cosmical pessimism:
this also means that a new dwarf fortress incompatible release is almost there
Post by: Deon on October 28, 2010, 07:41:37 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on October 28, 2010, 08:46:49 am
I am not sure how close is it, we may have to wait for a few months more.
neither I am, I just believe that it's just too sweet to have all the tools working, it doesn't sound right.
amrok giveth, amrok taketh
Post by: Drakeero on October 28, 2010, 08:31:12 pm
Does Stonesense take into account the different colors of various stones and metals with constructed projects?
Like, if you have a wall out of obsidian with hematite blocks worked in as a pattern will the hematite stand out?
Post by: Rose on October 28, 2010, 08:41:03 pm
Post by: elmariachi on October 29, 2010, 03:54:41 am
Post by: Rose on October 29, 2010, 05:21:18 am
you just have to compile it yourself.
check out the ON_COMPILING.txt
it may be a little outdated, though. just disregard what it says about the dfhack version, and install 0.5.0.2
Post by: elmariachi on October 29, 2010, 08:01:15 am
Code: [Select]
In file included from /home/mariachi/bin/stonesense/Block.h:3:0,
from /home/mariachi/bin/stonesense/Block.cpp:1:
/home/mariachi/bin/stonesense/common.h:21:20: fatal error: DFHack.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/Block.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
but dfhack is installed. Should I copy some dfhack files to the stonesense build directory?
Post by: Rose on October 29, 2010, 09:07:18 am
Post by: elmariachi on October 29, 2010, 09:23:07 am
Memory.xml is in /usr/share/dfhack the other files I can't find, but they are here somewhere 100% (damn automatic installations)
Post by: Musashi on October 29, 2010, 05:41:03 pm
Some parts look bad obviously, as I've mixed materials shamelessly, but thankfully, it's mostly a matter of floors, I can fix that easily later.
Post by: LordBistian on November 01, 2010, 01:49:21 pm
I wonder if there's any way to add custom buildings to it?
The gameID of a Soap-Workshop is appearently building_custom_workshop.
So I cant have multiple different custom buildings probably.
Any workaround?
Post by: Rose on November 01, 2010, 02:05:55 pm
eventually, somebody will figure out a way to support custom workshops properly, but it hasn't happened yet.
Post by: Dante on November 02, 2010, 01:00:25 am
Right, thanks. Showing items would be awesome to have one day, or maybe not, depending on how much it would clutter your screen :D
Btw I really love what Stonesense does to my Dwarf Fortiness experience. Applause!
Thanks mate :) We really enjoy it too, that's how it started hehe
The items we could do, we have that info, the only problem is there is literally 7 billion of them in an average fort. We'd have to be mighty clever to parse them just right without crashing your CPU to hell and back :) But we've been experimenting with it, for sure.
I'm sure it's been said before, but what I'd love would be a "render" option where you can set Stonesense to take a picture of your fort (or a part thereof) with item identification turned on, walk away for a few minutes to let the cpu churn, and get a shot of the whole thing with items included.
Post by: jonask84 on November 02, 2010, 03:04:05 am
Post by: LordBistian on November 02, 2010, 12:28:40 pm
How about just displaying Items on stockpiles?
And only the first item on the stack unless its a barrel/bin/bucket ?
That would keep up the framerate and look nice.
Right now those stockpiles look pretty empty in Stonesense.
Post by: Rose on November 02, 2010, 12:30:20 pm
dfhack doesn't really support items just yet. it's getting there, but not quite yet.
Post by: Grax on November 03, 2010, 04:45:04 am
Post by: kaypy on November 03, 2010, 05:54:40 am
Post by: Rose on November 03, 2010, 10:35:25 am
Is there inis for .16?
look at the opening post.
read it carefully.
[EDIT] Blimey, the git's forgotten to update the post properly.
anyhoo, what the OP is supposed to be saying is that 2.2 supports upto 0.31.16
Post by: Grax on November 03, 2010, 10:42:45 am
Is there inis for .16?look at the opening post.
read it carefully.
[EDIT] Blimey, the git's forgotten to update the post properly.
anyhoo, what the OP is supposed to be saying is that 2.2 supports upto 0.31.16
Oh. Fck. It works!
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 03, 2010, 11:06:31 am
Is there inis for .16?
look at the opening post.
read it carefully.
[EDIT] Blimey, the git's forgotten to update the post properly.
anyhoo, what the OP is supposed to be saying is that 2.2 supports upto 0.31.16
it hasn't forgotten, only it's written bigger and at the start, right in the title, exactly where nobody looks at. I was fooled myself...
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 03, 2010, 05:04:08 pm
What would it take to merge an in game UI with the stonesense mod? IE, able to play, build and control the game while viewing it in 3d?
Post by: Andir on November 03, 2010, 05:46:28 pm
Ok jumping in here to ask a question I am SURE has been asked countless times before...Ok, jumping in here to tell you the answer is right at your fingertips... right up there in that little white box with a "Search" button next to it.
If you were so sure it's already been asked, why did you?
Post by: Sowelu on November 03, 2010, 06:40:26 pm
Post by: Rose on November 03, 2010, 06:46:31 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 03, 2010, 10:31:52 pm
Ok jumping in here to ask a question I am SURE has been asked countless times before...What it would take to do it well would be some game integration from Toady, but I'm pretty sure this is one of the things he doesn't want done.
What would it take to merge an in game UI with the stonesense mod? IE, able to play, build and control the game while viewing it in 3d?
Post by: Russell on November 03, 2010, 10:57:26 pm
Post by: Rose on November 03, 2010, 11:23:08 pm
Post by: Russell on November 03, 2010, 11:47:35 pm
Post by: nbonaparte on November 04, 2010, 04:21:48 am
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 04, 2010, 05:38:07 am
I forgot to download the image. But I saw a version of stonesense with all the commands - such as build. designate, etc - at the bottom of the screen. It looked awesome. How do I do that with Stonesense?
You mean this?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It was a mockup meant as an advertisement for the Total Interface Overhaul (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=34949.0) thread, because people often talk about interface here and I wanted to draw them over. But the point of the thread is not to suggest anything to the Stonesense team, nor produce an interface of our own. It's meant to be suggestions for Toady for the time when he gets to improving the interface.
Post by: Wolf Tengu on November 04, 2010, 07:16:17 pm
'Cause it isn't connecting.
Stonesense looked all shiny too.
Post by: Russell on November 04, 2010, 11:05:10 pm
You mean this?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up :)
Post by: jonask84 on November 05, 2010, 04:48:15 am
current consensus is that I'm the only one actually working on this project, and I don't want that feature.
Yeah, that's pretty much it for all features. If someone implements it in a way that works well, then by all means we graciously will take that into the trunk, as an ongoing open source project we appreciate help from anyone :)
As Japa point's out, he's the guy writing code these days. Work has me pretty busy and I basically just do admin stuff for now :)
Post by: Dariush on November 05, 2010, 01:24:31 pm
Awesomeness overload. Brain turning off in 3...2...1...Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Metroid on November 07, 2010, 07:33:48 pm
I really love the utility, but could I suggest something?
Maybe change how ice walls look, if you can.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jadael on November 08, 2010, 01:27:10 am
Post by: jonask84 on November 08, 2010, 03:03:53 am
If anyone wants to chip in with one, that'd be great :)
I'll also contact some of our regular spriters to see if they're busy.
Post by: lordnincompoop on November 08, 2010, 03:14:32 am
Post by: jonask84 on November 08, 2010, 03:19:22 am
Gimme a template and I'll take a shot at it.
This post (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg872469;topicseen#msg872469) from Solifuge explains the situation quite well. You'll be wanting the "Wall" template there, I think
Post by: Metroid on November 08, 2010, 06:16:23 am
It isn't an ice fort, by the way. I just had a bunch of ice left over from the river I dug out so I made a swanky (by my standards) entrance.
Post by: Fayrik on November 10, 2010, 08:00:00 am
I press CTRL+F5, it comes up with the message "Saving Large Screenshot..." which promptly dissapears (way before it should do.), leaving me without a massive screenshot of everything in the world.
It used to work on my faster computer, but then I was using version 2.1 on that. Then the computer broke - so I no longer have 2.1 to test to see if it's just this version.
Anyone got any ideas on this?
Post by: Rose on November 10, 2010, 08:11:18 am
but the basic problem is that your videocard does not have the memory required for taking the shot, so it fails. (in retrospect, a dialog box would have been helpful)
the way to fix this is to use software rendering, which uses the system memory rather than the videocard memory, and so is less likely to run out. it is, however, slow.
Post by: Fayrik on November 10, 2010, 08:48:07 am
..Whoa, slow was an understatement. Anyhow, despite it's complete obscurity there...
Personally, I'd probably run the screenshot in segments, so that you can save it to a buffer (AKA: Temporary) file, while it saves. Should go easier on both RAM and Video RAM, and make it possible for even the oldest Video cards to save screenshots.
But it looks like I finally have that one screenshot. Just another two more to go.
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2010, 09:28:10 am
It may be slow, but at least it should work. That's the important bit.
..Whoa, slow was an understatement. Anyhow, despite it's complete obscurity there...
Personally, I'd probably run the screenshot in segments, so that you can save it to a buffer (AKA: Temporary) file, while it saves. Should go easier on both RAM and Video RAM, and make it possible for even the oldest Video cards to save screenshots.
But it looks like I finally have that one screenshot. Just another two more to go.
I'm glad you at least got it working Fayrik :) You see, we tried the segmented approach, but there are some more complicated issues with gluing them together (like water etc).
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 10, 2010, 09:33:29 am
increasing them one by one is really slow
Post by: Rose on November 10, 2010, 09:40:35 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 10, 2010, 09:57:37 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Fayrik on November 10, 2010, 10:16:24 am
I think that's an Elven Facepalm.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, the software rendering is SO slow, I really can't describe it. That post wasn't half an hour late for no reason, it really did take that long.
I'm playing with the idea of having a combined rendering system, though even to me it sounds hideously complex, but I'm just wishing for a faster system I guess.
Post by: jonask84 on November 10, 2010, 11:01:49 am
I think that's an Elven Facepalm.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, the software rendering is SO slow, I really can't describe it. That post wasn't half an hour late for no reason, it really did take that long.
I'm playing with the idea of having a combined rendering system, though even to me it sounds hideously complex, but I'm just wishing for a faster system I guess.
You should have seen the old one ;) twelve hours was normal heh
Post by: Rose on November 10, 2010, 12:05:15 pm
You should have seen the old one ;) twelve hours was normal heh
Hey! I said I was sorry!
Post by: Ilya on November 10, 2010, 04:53:23 pm
Post by: samantha on November 10, 2010, 11:34:39 pm
For some odd reason, when I launch Stonesense after running DF saved game, I press F9 at the screen and it does absolutely nothing. I've tried everything from the memory.xml, dfhack, directX, you name it....but it still just sits there!
Running Windows 7 32-bit
please help! :(
Post by: Rose on November 11, 2010, 12:14:07 am
Post by: samantha on November 11, 2010, 12:35:33 am
you using the sdl or the legacy version of DF?
I went to the "About DF" on the main menu of the game and it says I have SDL...is that bad?
Post by: Rose on November 11, 2010, 12:37:05 am
now we just have to figure out why it's not working.
what does the log say?
Post by: samantha on November 11, 2010, 12:40:46 am
that's good.
now we just have to figure out why it's not working.
what does the log say?
I looked for the log in the stonesense folder but couldn't find it, what's it called?
EDIT: I found a text file called "stonesense" and it had this:
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.21 r1
Post by: Rose on November 11, 2010, 12:54:24 am
try disabling the intro in the init.txt
Post by: samantha on November 11, 2010, 12:58:27 am
okay, that's weird, because if it wouldn't connect, it would have been spamming that file with messages about not being able to connect. so that's not the problem.
try disabling the intro in the init.txt
Intro disabled, game-save reloaded, and still pressing F9 with nothing.... :(
Post by: Rose on November 11, 2010, 01:00:47 am
just black screen?
with the intro disabled, you shouldn't need to press F9
Post by: samantha on November 11, 2010, 01:04:42 am
define nothing
just black screen?
with the intro disabled, you shouldn't need to press F9
wait, WOW! THAT WORKED! I just-rechecked the init file and for some reason it didn't save....even though all I do is save files all today, it decided not to... :/
But I went back and made sure it saved, and it worked. Consider this the fix for the one other person who had the problem with pressing F9 and not getting any response from the program...
thank you!
Post by: Jiri Petru on November 11, 2010, 06:53:10 am
This isn't meant as whining, as I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for it. I'm just curious what the reason is.
Post by: Rose on November 11, 2010, 06:57:04 am
2: the graphics aren't well optimized.
if you turn on debug mode you can see three timers showing how long each step takes
Post by: jonask84 on November 11, 2010, 07:05:34 am
I'm just wondering - what's the reason for Stonesense to be so slow, even when the game is paused? (I can only use Stonesense with paused DF, and even then it's responding slowly and is far from fluent). The graphics are very old-school, and the old games that look similarly run fast on modern computers. By this logic, Stonesense should be fast as lightning.
This isn't meant as whining, as I'm sure there's a perfectly good reason for it. I'm just curious what the reason is.
The main reason is that 3rd party tools do not have direct memory access. It's as simple as that. If we want to read the world from DF, we have to copy each piece of data we want to read out. We can't access it directly, and this is what is causing most of the slow-down.
As Japa points out, the graphics take up a fair amount too. They could be more optimized, of course, but the issue is more complicated. First off, modern computers are geared towards 3D graphics, and can do billions of vertex and shading calculations per second. They're not geared towards 2D graphics at all. So any tile based Isometric engine you see, will do caching tricks, like only redrawing parts of the screen that has changed. This becomes exceedingly difficult to implement when you can not add "hooks" and event listeners into the actual game code.
That's the under-the-hood explanation.
Post by: Fayrik on November 11, 2010, 08:39:52 am
(Numpad "-" lots, till the refresh vanishes.)
I dunno, but perhaps putting the animation cycles in with the refresh cycles would make things a lot faster - if a little bit less pretty.
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 11, 2010, 08:43:27 am
Quote
If we want to read the world from DF, we have to copy each piece of data we want to read out
Quote
This becomes exceedingly difficult to implement when you can not add "hooks" and event listeners into the actual game code
*hacks at ReadMapSegment*
maybe one can have variable reload time for slower reads?
like, loading creatures every timeToReloadSegment, vegetation every other timeToReloadSegment and the world terrain every ten timeToReloadSegment?
shame I'm at work right now.
*makes mental note*
Post by: Maxxeh on November 11, 2010, 02:28:25 pm
Post by: Dakk on November 11, 2010, 10:32:47 pm
Post by: Ipwnurmom221 on November 12, 2010, 07:51:04 pm
Post by: Alex Steiner on November 13, 2010, 04:05:12 am
After 5 minutes or so, I got a single image of the layer the cursor was on, but doing anything ( up a z-level for example) freezes it again.
DF isn't getting any simpler, but I'm curious about what changed it so much. I remember using SS with 40d on the same computer and it ran realtime easily.
I'm still using .31.16 for now, since I'm halfway through a succession.
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2010, 04:27:12 am
also, ensure you have some kind of videocard.
Post by: Stormxlr on November 13, 2010, 01:16:23 pm
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2010, 01:19:09 pm
Post by: Stormxlr on November 13, 2010, 01:22:24 pm
stonesense only works with the previous version of DF. you have to chose between using stonesense, and getting ripped to shreds every night.ive got version 31.16 , isnt this one suppose to work with SS ?
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2010, 01:24:18 pm
what problems are you having?
Post by: Stormxlr on November 13, 2010, 01:27:32 pm
yeah, it's supposed to work with .16well i boot up my DF .16 , load up the fortress mode then turn on stonesense click F9 and it gets stuck on connecting to DF
what problems are you having?
i dunno maybe i need to put it in dif place? i tried putting it in same folder as DF and different folder both give same result. tried booting up at dif times etc no change
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2010, 01:30:11 pm
Post by: Stormxlr on November 13, 2010, 01:32:54 pm
what does the log say?if you are talking about Stonesense log
Quote
Stonesense launchedbut DF.exe is in the same folder as Stonesense exe
Using allegro version 4.9.21 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
Post by: Alex Steiner on November 13, 2010, 04:14:33 pm
try changing the renderer from directx to opengl in the init.txt.It was originally set to "ANY", so I changed it to DIRECTX, which was the same, then to OPENGL, which has fixed it.
also, ensure you have some kind of videocard.
It's interesting because it's running on what used to be a good gaming PC (card was touted as fully DX9 compatible).
Anyway, thanks.
Edit: It now crashed taking the large screenshot :( . Log says I should try the software renderer. Try again with that then...
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2010, 09:27:28 pm
what does the log say?if you are talking about Stonesense logQuoteStonesense launchedbut DF.exe is in the same folder as Stonesense exe
Using allegro version 4.9.21 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
they don't need to be in the same folder.
try running both in administrator mode.
Post by: Stormxlr on November 14, 2010, 12:37:48 am
Nope no luck, still stuck on connecting to DFwhat does the log say?if you are talking about Stonesense logQuoteStonesense launchedbut DF.exe is in the same folder as Stonesense exe
Using allegro version 4.9.21 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
they don't need to be in the same folder.
try running both in administrator mode.
Post by: Andir on November 14, 2010, 01:34:20 am
::)
What OS? 32-bit? 64-bit?
Did you read the other posts on connecting?
Post by: Bellerophon on November 14, 2010, 06:18:04 am
(http://imgur.com/EIThus.jpg) (http://imgur.com/EIThu.jpg)
(http://imgur.com/5iba4s.jpg) (http://imgur.com/5iba4.jpg)
Post by: Rose on November 14, 2010, 06:40:56 am
if they are constructed, could you send over the save file? thanks.
Post by: Bellerophon on November 14, 2010, 07:59:43 am
are those floor constructed, or smoothed?
if they are constructed, could you send over the save file? thanks.
Oh, probably should have specified plating. It's a thing where... say I had a malachite floor, I'd build a constructed floor on it in marble, demolish and be left with rough marble that I'd then smooth and, if I wanted to, engrave. I always assumed it was a deliberate method put in by Toady - you can't, say, turn shale into marble or marble into shale, but you can turn orthoclause into either.
In any case, examining it with k simply shows it as a smoothed marble floor and it colours as marble, so somehow stonesense is reading what it originally was rather than whatever the dwarf fortress renderer reads. Which is an inconsistency, which is A Bad Thing.
Post by: Rose on November 14, 2010, 08:04:23 am
you see, stonesense transcends bugs such as that.
Post by: Bellerophon on November 14, 2010, 12:54:28 pm
I'm pretty sure that's a bug in DF.
you see, stonesense transcends bugs such as that.
Noooooo, not my pretty fortress...
I'm actually quite surprised the stonesense even can report a different material than the DF renderer and information displays. Hazards of memory-scanning, I suppose.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 14, 2010, 12:57:27 pm
Post by: thecolin on November 14, 2010, 04:44:43 pm
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
Post by: Footkerchief on November 15, 2010, 02:30:44 am
Hi there, I was wondering if anyone has used this with .17. I can't get it to run, nor can I find a copy of .16 anywhere to download (perhaps somebody could direct me to one?). What's my best bet? Should I wait for .17 to be supported? Or is there some other possible solution? What happens is that when I load stonesense, if just hangs on the 'connecting to DF' screen.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
.17 isn't supported yet. .16 is available from the Older Versions (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/older_versions.html) link on the main DF page.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on November 15, 2010, 05:47:39 am
Post by: thecolin on November 15, 2010, 03:16:42 pm
Hi there, I was wondering if anyone has used this with .17. I can't get it to run, nor can I find a copy of .16 anywhere to download (perhaps somebody could direct me to one?). What's my best bet? Should I wait for .17 to be supported? Or is there some other possible solution? What happens is that when I load stonesense, if just hangs on the 'connecting to DF' screen.
Thanks for any assistance you can provide.
.17 isn't supported yet. .16 is available from the Older Versions (http://bay12games.com/dwarves/older_versions.html) link on the main DF page.
Thanks, I totally missed that link. :P
Post by: TGRaiden on November 16, 2010, 04:32:18 am
Stuck at "Connecting to DF..."
I'm using DF 31.16
The most recent build of Stonesense.
I'm running both programs in Administrator mode.
I've tried activating Stonesense at various times, (when I first start up DF, after the world is built, after I embark) no good.
Any help would be appreciated.
Post by: Stormchild on November 16, 2010, 11:06:40 am
You already grabbed the latest memory.xml too I suppose ? (link is somewhere in a spoiler tag in OP) That replaces the memory.xml found in stonesense directory and helped me a few times.
Also, don't forget to put your stonesense directory inside your DF directory, of course.
If you have done all that, well, I don't know.
Post by: Rose on November 16, 2010, 11:08:34 am
don't forget to put your stonesense directory inside your DF directory, of course.
This is just plain wrong.
Post by: Stormchild on November 16, 2010, 11:10:58 am
don't forget to put your stonesense directory inside your DF directory, of course.
This is just plain wrong.
Well, maybe it's not necessary then, but it works for me.
In my DF directory, I have sub-directories for Stonesense, Therapist, soundsense... they all work for 31.16.
My bad, I must have it confused with another mod.
Post by: Rose on November 16, 2010, 11:11:57 am
Post by: Stormchild on November 16, 2010, 11:12:46 am
Post by: Internet Kraken on November 16, 2010, 04:12:36 pm
Post by: TGRaiden on November 16, 2010, 04:28:15 pm
Thanks for the suggestions. Was hoping Stonesense would make learning DF a little easier.
Post by: veok on November 16, 2010, 06:02:14 pm
Any idea about when support for 0.17 might be made available. I'm running an LP on another site, and one of the problems I foolishly didn't anticipate is people unfamiliar to DF having a large amount of difficult deciphering each screenshot. Stonesense would probably help a lot with that, since it's easier to understand at a first glance than ASCII graphics.
Since .18 is out now, would it even be worth it? I imagine they'd jump ahead to the version that came out 5 days later.
Post by: Greiger on November 16, 2010, 06:47:41 pm
(*A couple tools work but the majority of the stuff like what utilities like stonesense need probably aren't going to be found for .17)
Post by: Internet Kraken on November 16, 2010, 07:02:36 pm
Any idea about when support for 0.17 might be made available. I'm running an LP on another site, and one of the problems I foolishly didn't anticipate is people unfamiliar to DF having a large amount of difficult deciphering each screenshot. Stonesense would probably help a lot with that, since it's easier to understand at a first glance than ASCII graphics.
Since .18 is out now, would it even be worth it? I imagine they'd jump ahead to the version that came out 5 days later.
Well at the time I made that comment I didn't realize that a new version had been released.
Post by: veok on November 16, 2010, 09:25:46 pm
Post by: bowdown2q on November 16, 2010, 11:04:41 pm
Touche.
I'm not touching anything, you
If I knew anything about coding, I'd see if I cant get dfoffset to return some useful values for .17/.18, but, hey, I'm a tabletop game geek, not a codejockey.
Post by: jonask84 on November 17, 2010, 04:33:13 am
... I'm a tabletop game geek ...
Not to sidetrack the thread, but aren't we all :D
Post by: Cruxador on November 17, 2010, 02:12:54 pm
Here on the DF forums? Sure seems like it.... I'm a tabletop game geek ...
Not to sidetrack the thread, but aren't we all :D
Post by: Afthartos on November 17, 2010, 07:50:03 pm
Post by: niko86 on November 18, 2010, 04:52:28 am
Touche.
I'm not touching anything, youexplicative deleted!
If I knew anything about coding, I'd see if I cant get dfoffset to return some useful values for .17/.18, but, hey, I'm a tabletop game geek, not a codejockey.
Wikipedia
The word "touché" is also often used in popular culture and general conversation for example, in an argument or debate to commend someone on a clever response to an argument.
On topic I've not been able to get stonesense to work with .16 and the new memory.xml. Everytime I load the program I get a rapidly flashing screen, alternating between Connecting to DF... and a light blue screen with refresh rates figures etc.
I'm running windows 7 64bit and have tried compatibility mode for xp sp2 and also admin rights. Neither options change anything when used seperately or together.
Post by: forsaken1111 on November 18, 2010, 05:16:15 am
DouchéTouche.
I'm not touching anything, youexplicative deleted!
If I knew anything about coding, I'd see if I cant get dfoffset to return some useful values for .17/.18, but, hey, I'm a tabletop game geek, not a codejockey.
Wikipedia
The word "touché" is also often used in popular culture and general conversation for example, in an argument or debate to commend someone on a clever response to an argument.
Post by: LoSboccacc on November 18, 2010, 05:45:12 am
couchéDouchéTouche.
I'm not touching anything, youexplicative deleted!
If I knew anything about coding, I'd see if I cant get dfoffset to return some useful values for .17/.18, but, hey, I'm a tabletop game geek, not a codejockey.
Wikipedia
The word "touché" is also often used in popular culture and general conversation for example, in an argument or debate to commend someone on a clever response to an argument.
(I wanted to use the other rhyme but I don't think that kind of vulgarity is allowed here)
Post by: jonask84 on November 18, 2010, 06:12:55 am
alternating between Connecting to DF... and a light blue screen with refresh rates figures etc.
I'm running windows 7 64bit and have tried compatibility mode for xp sp2 and also admin rights. Neither options change anything when used seperately or together.
There are two things we should try:
1) a long shot, but it's worked for some people: try open the init.txt and disable the intro.
2) Try downloading the dfHack tools, and see if they work. This might clue us in to what is going on.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on November 18, 2010, 06:56:40 am
Is there any way currently to check for outside/inside? I seem to remember talking about it to you at some point(maybe) and I don't remember if it was put in.
It doesn't appear to be in the sprite guide as far as I can see, but I just want to double check before I make any assumptions.
Thanks.
Post by: Rose on November 18, 2010, 07:23:10 am
if you want to have a look at a conclusive, guaranteed up-to-date list, you can read the source here (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/SpriteObjects.cpp), starting at line 205
Post by: Dark_Tundra on November 18, 2010, 07:40:01 am
Post by: Rose on November 18, 2010, 08:26:51 am
Post by: Jadael on November 19, 2010, 09:35:11 pm
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2010, 01:42:53 am
Post by: Jadael on November 20, 2010, 02:25:25 am
Programming wise, what I'd like to see more is a way to mark 'inside' tiles as being drawn with a slightly lower gamma, so they still have contrast but look darker.
Post by: Rose on November 20, 2010, 02:42:33 am
Post by: Afelia Fail on November 21, 2010, 12:38:40 pm
Post by: Greiger on November 21, 2010, 01:24:51 pm
Post by: tolkafox on November 23, 2010, 10:37:59 pm
With the latest DF hack memory.xml it seems to be working. It's got materiel colors and everything. Only creatures are not visible.
Sweet, annoying little critters are gone.
Post by: alphawolf29 on November 24, 2010, 03:29:19 am
Post by: Rose on November 24, 2010, 03:53:34 am
Post by: alphawolf29 on November 24, 2010, 05:43:18 am
Post by: Rose on November 24, 2010, 07:30:07 am
If stuff's not workingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rolan7 on November 24, 2010, 09:35:28 am
If stuff's not workingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
That makes it work for me, yay! I finally get to see my glass skybridge to the volcano.
It needs a little work though. Windows don't make good corners.
Post by: Jesus05 on November 25, 2010, 02:28:02 am
Post by: Rose on November 25, 2010, 02:43:05 am
Post by: Tesseract on November 25, 2010, 12:36:23 pm
I have tried to make stonesense work but I keep having this infinite loading. I tried to update memory.xml and it did no good. There is probably something I am doing wrong but I can't find what it is. I'm running on windows 7 64 bits on a iMac (that might be the problem but everything else seems to work fine).
I always try to open stonesense when my game is fully loaded.
Thanks for any advice !
Post by: Rose on November 25, 2010, 12:46:52 pm
Post by: Tesseract on November 25, 2010, 01:14:09 pm
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 4.9.21 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
Post by: A for Anonymous on November 28, 2010, 03:00:00 am
PLEASE include the following security hotfix in your original post:
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Service Pack 1 Redistributable Package ATL Security Update (https://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=766a6af7-ec73-40ff-b072-9112bab119c2&displaylang=en)
The VC++ 2k5 Redistributable Package should NEVER be installed without also installing this hotfix!
See Microsoft Security Bulletin MS09-035 (https://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS09-035.mspx) for more details. This is especially bad since Microsoft butchered the Redistributable Pack installer, and running it again if you already have the security hotfix will actually revert you to the version without it. D:
Post by: Rose on November 28, 2010, 03:27:06 am
Post by: Master Catfish on November 28, 2010, 02:35:22 pm
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on November 28, 2010, 03:14:20 pm
I downloaded the most recent version of Stonesense, put it in my DF folder, loaded a game, loaded Stonesense, and it just spins its gears while saying "Connecting to Dwarf Fortress" I mean I am running the most recent version, why do these things never work right?
Post by: Lokomotivet on November 28, 2010, 05:29:06 pm
I swear I have the worst luck running DF utilities >:(
I downloaded the most recent version of Stonesense, put it in my DF folder, loaded a game, loaded Stonesense, and it just spins its gears while saying "Connecting to Dwarf Fortress" I mean I am running the most recent version, why do these things never work right?
Because Stonesense doesn't work with 31.18... yet.
I'm so eagerly waiting for the update, first time I'm using stonesense so can anyone tell me how often they update stonesense?
Post by: Kiktamo on November 28, 2010, 05:56:36 pm
Post by: Lokomotivet on November 29, 2010, 05:18:47 am
You can get it to show terrain without creatures just be using the Memory.xml that comes with the latest DFhack. Not perfect perhaps but it's all I need personally.Ah yes, that too.
Post by: Rose on November 29, 2010, 05:20:48 am
I swear I have the worst luck running DF utilities >:(
I downloaded the most recent version of Stonesense, put it in my DF folder, loaded a game, loaded Stonesense, and it just spins its gears while saying "Connecting to Dwarf Fortress" I mean I am running the most recent version, why do these things never work right?
Because Stonesense doesn't work with 31.18... yet.
I'm so eagerly waiting for the update, first time I'm using stonesense so can anyone tell me how often they update stonesense?
I update stonesense once every 1d100 days.
Post by: PLANKS on November 29, 2010, 05:44:48 am
Quote from: Japa
I update stonesense once every 1d100 days.
I lols
I am also eagerly awaiting your awsomeness visualization. :D
Note: Spell check used twice on above sentance
Post by: Lokomotivet on November 29, 2010, 11:59:59 am
Quote
I update stonesense once every 1d100 days.:-\
Post by: Mortiss on November 29, 2010, 01:00:01 pm
I update stonesense once every 1d100 days.
Let me assist you: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm
Now, don't stop till you fairly roll a number between 1 and 10! ;D
Post by: MaximumZero on December 01, 2010, 04:25:36 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 01, 2010, 04:28:25 pm
Post by: Meanmelter on December 01, 2010, 06:03:01 pm
At least with all the older versions all you needed was a checkSUM...
Going to see if I can get it to work.
Post by: Shrugging Khan on December 02, 2010, 06:09:38 pm
Post by: Graebeard on December 03, 2010, 01:27:56 am
I'm able to take normal screenshots just fine, and when I hit Ctrl+f5 it says it's taking a large screenshot, but there's no png in the Stonesense folder.
I'm using Slate 2.2 with .18 and the memory.xml for .18.
Anyone have any suggestions?
Post by: Rose on December 03, 2010, 01:43:43 am
most likely cause is that you don't have the required video memory to take the shot.
try using software mode. it will take a while, but should work.
Post by: Seriyu on December 03, 2010, 10:17:33 pm
I got stonesense working by replacing the memory XML in the old stonesense with the one from DFhack, would that be the issue? They just look like empty frames.
I know creatures don't show up via memory XML replacement, but I wasn't sure about windows.
Post by: Rose on December 03, 2010, 10:19:39 pm
Post by: Seriyu on December 03, 2010, 11:24:27 pm
Post by: ottottott on December 04, 2010, 10:41:17 am
Post by: Rose on December 04, 2010, 11:50:48 am
Post by: Meanmelter on December 04, 2010, 05:48:57 pm
Post by: Greiger on December 04, 2010, 06:05:15 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.0
Post by: Rose on December 04, 2010, 11:09:20 pm
Post by: Seriyu on December 05, 2010, 01:33:45 am
Post by: ottottott on December 05, 2010, 02:06:19 am
Post by: Rose on December 05, 2010, 02:14:40 am
also, there's a nice little progress indicator in the top bar.
Post by: ottottott on December 05, 2010, 02:49:33 am
Oh and... progress indicator?
Post by: Rose on December 05, 2010, 02:51:53 am
it's best to just open the init.txt, change the viewed z levels to whatever you want to show, and move DF to the top level of the fort before taking the shot, then change the settings back, so you don't have to move around much.
the next version will have a faster software renderer.
Post by: ( Tchey ) on December 06, 2010, 06:22:37 am
Excuse me, didn't read the 294 previous pages. I did read the wiki and the first few pages of the post.
I can't have StoneSense working. I'm using DF Phoebus 31.18 and StoneSense Slate 2.2.
I firt launch DF, then while i'm ingame, i i launch SS, i hit F9, and here i see an infinite "connecting to DF..." screen.
What i am doing wrong ?
Dwarf Therapist seems OK.
Thanks for your help.
Post by: rephikul on December 06, 2010, 06:41:05 am
Hi there,You downloaded the wrong version, you need to go to the future and download stonesense version 2.3 which has .18 support.
Excuse me, didn't read the 294 previous pages. I did read the wiki and the first few pages of the post.
I can't have StoneSense working. I'm using DF Phoebus 31.18 and StoneSense Slate 2.2.
I firt launch DF, then while i'm ingame, i i launch SS, i hit F9, and here i see an infinite "connecting to DF..." screen.
What i am doing wrong ?
Dwarf Therapist seems OK.
Thanks for your help.
Post by: ( Tchey ) on December 06, 2010, 07:04:05 am
Post by: Rose on December 06, 2010, 07:34:23 am
Post by: Lokomotivet on December 06, 2010, 02:14:55 pm
Post by: Greiger on December 06, 2010, 02:30:02 pm
The reason there are no creatures is because the DFHack memory offsets for creatures are currently unknown. That's the DFHack guys(and I'm sure they are doing their best), not Stonesense. I'm sure it will be updated when those become available. Unless of course all the developers of every Dwarf Fortress utility didn't get tired of answering the same question over and over again, by the time it gets out.
The game is free, the utilities are free, the folks working on DFHack are doing it for free. The folks complaining about Utility A or B or what have you are entitled to NOTHING. Seeing this complaint in the Stonesense thread bugs me even more than when I see it in others because Stonesense is at least 90% functional with what offsets are known! The complaints are about one of the little bells and whistles not working properly.
Remember what happened to Visual Fortress?
It will happen when it happens.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 06, 2010, 02:36:21 pm
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on December 06, 2010, 03:15:16 pm
If someone, say with lots of money, was able to organize the various mod leaders into a single group. The makers of the Dwarf3D program, the makers of DFHack, the makers of Stonesense, etc. If they got them all together in one group, would EPIC happen? or would they end up killing each other?
Post by: Sowelu on December 06, 2010, 03:29:40 pm
It does make one think...They'd better have a lot of money for Toady, too, if they plan on pulling a stunt like that. ::)
If someone, say with lots of money, was able to organize the various mod leaders into a single group. The makers of the Dwarf3D program, the makers of DFHack, the makers of Stonesense, etc. If they got them all together in one group, would EPIC happen? or would they end up killing each other?
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 06, 2010, 03:38:09 pm
I don't follow. You're saying that if people who have made mods for Dwarf Fortress get together and make something cool on their own, they have to pay Toady?It does make one think...They'd better have a lot of money for Toady, too, if they plan on pulling a stunt like that. ::)
If someone, say with lots of money, was able to organize the various mod leaders into a single group. The makers of the Dwarf3D program, the makers of DFHack, the makers of Stonesense, etc. If they got them all together in one group, would EPIC happen? or would they end up killing each other?
Post by: Andir on December 06, 2010, 04:18:25 pm
I don't follow. You're saying that if people who have made mods for Dwarf Fortress get together and make something cool on their own, they have to pay Toady?There's a fine grey line. Personally, I have no problem paying someone to make Stonesense, et al. but there are some that would say even derivative works that rely on Dwarf Fortress should be approved by Toady or deemed "illegal" or immoral. It's kind of like how Blizzard claims rights to game data in the memory of your computer and any application that alters that data is infringing on their property.
My personal stance on the issue is that it's perfectly fine to pay and play someone's mod as long as they do not ship with Dwarf Fortress files. If you provide a method of downloading DF from the original source and instructions on how to set it up, I see no problem there either.
I fall in the line of people that says any data created by any application I launch that is saved to my RAM/Disk is mine to read or modify in any way I see fit. (I had to word that proper... I do not find it cool to share compiled code unless approved by the original author, but any "compiled" data that uses my CPU to compile it is free game.)
If Toady wanted to stop modding (and that's his choice) he could easily implement one of the many memory obfuscation algorithms. Currently, IMHO, he approves all "DFHack" style modding by not making an effort to stop it or providing an alternative interface to the data. That's a good thing in my opinion. It shows that he knows people want to play his game, but they need X tool to do it. It should inspire him to add similar features. He has the advantage of being able to compete with the mods. He has a better interface and knowledge of that data... so it should be marginal for him to compete.
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on December 06, 2010, 04:57:56 pm
As far as money goes, well DF is free, all the mods are free, the only thing that would be considered worth paying money on is the time of working in general.
Post by: Andir on December 06, 2010, 05:52:41 pm
As far as money goes, well DF is free, all the mods are free, the only thing that would be considered worth paying money on is the time of working in general.Sure, but nobody lists their work schedule. ;)
Post by: axus on December 08, 2010, 11:03:08 am
Well my dream is for everyone to work WITH Toady on intagrating these things into DF. But the problem is that this is at the Core Toady's creation, and it shoudn't be up to anyone to take it over as it where. Thats why its more of a dream of mine, Having Toady work WITH the creators of these other mods and have them become part of the game.
As far as money goes, well DF is free, all the mods are free, the only thing that would be considered worth paying money on is the time of working in general.
Toady shouldn't have to fit "working with people" into his schedule. As long as they aren't bundling software or resources that Toady created, anyone can organize anything they want with DF mods.
Post by: Dark-Star on December 08, 2010, 12:14:03 pm
While ASCII art works very well for some games, like ZZT, something like DF really needs actual graphics. The tilesets felt to me like a half-baked patch, I've seen GBA games with better. And here you lot go and create this awesomeness!
The fan additions are icing on the cake...and this cake is not a lie! 8)
BTW, is this compatible with 31.18? Or will I need to wait a bit?
Post by: Rose on December 08, 2010, 12:18:44 pm
no working creatures.
Post by: kolt16 on December 08, 2010, 03:02:59 pm
The base is that since the new military system and all the equipment related stuff I'd love some graphical feedback on equipment worn or used by dwarfs or adventurers. Theoretically it should be possible even in standard df if the graf engine that picks the sprites would check for equipped items as well. Though there are some issues, first being the 16x16 sprites with limited zoom ability, you have to look at your monitor from like 2cm if you want to see what's the dude wearing (made an example of this based on Phoebus/Shr dwarfs, can upload it in .psd if someone wants to see it), and the other issue being that I don't think the game supports sprites built from multiple images with transparency. Than I realized this is exactly what stonesense does with facial features and such.
So here is the actual question, would it be possible to memory hack out more prominent equipment pieces and use them to overdraw a "blank" figure of say a military dwarf? If it is that brings up some more questions like what should be drawn? I'd say for testing ignore material types, and use only base weapons, and maybe helmet, chest armor, and greaves.
If this would be implemented with some examples on how to use, I'd be glad to make base sprites for this stuff, until someone with more talent does some realy nice ones. Also now that df uses adventurer grafs based on weapon skill it could be applied there to..
Post by: jonask84 on December 08, 2010, 04:15:16 pm
A nice concept study would be for someone to make a program that draws actual representations of dwarfs' equipment and "paperdoll" it together.
Post by: Footkerchief on December 08, 2010, 04:28:58 pm
An idea has been bugging me since the new release. I was going to ask Toady about it, but it might be better to bring it up here.
The base is that since the new military system and all the equipment related stuff I'd love some graphical feedback on equipment worn or used by dwarfs or adventurers. Theoretically it should be possible even in standard df if the graf engine that picks the sprites would check for equipped items as well. Though there are some issues, first being the 16x16 sprites with limited zoom ability, you have to look at your monitor from like 2cm if you want to see what's the dude wearing (made an example of this based on Phoebus/Shr dwarfs, can upload it in .psd if someone wants to see it), and the other issue being that I don't think the game supports sprites built from multiple images with transparency. Than I realized this is exactly what stonesense does with facial features and such.
So here is the actual question, would it be possible to memory hack out more prominent equipment pieces and use them to overdraw a "blank" figure of say a military dwarf? If it is that brings up some more questions like what should be drawn? I'd say for testing ignore material types, and use only base weapons, and maybe helmet, chest armor, and greaves.
If this would be implemented with some examples on how to use, I'd be glad to make base sprites for this stuff, until someone with more talent does some realy nice ones. Also now that df uses adventurer grafs based on weapon skill it could be applied there to..
@kolt16: What you describe is very much possible, to my knowledge. And I agree it would be pretty awesome to see. It might be a little beyond the scope of what Stonesense is supposed to do right now, but I'm not against the idea as long as the performance impact would not be too large.
A nice concept study would be for someone to make a program that draws actual representations of dwarfs' equipment and "paperdoll" it together.
CobaltKobold and belannaer already did some work in this direction:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg901876#msg901876
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1583926#msg1583926
Post by: kolt16 on December 09, 2010, 04:12:14 am
@kolt16: What you describe is very much possible, to my knowledge. And I agree it would be pretty awesome to see. It might be a little beyond the scope of what Stonesense is supposed to do right now, but I'm not against the idea as long as the performance impact would not be too large.
A nice concept study would be for someone to make a program that draws actual representations of dwarfs' equipment and "paperdoll" it together.
CobaltKobold and belannaer already did some work in this direction:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg901876#msg901876
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1583926#msg1583926
Well it's good to see others had this idea too, so it's not to outlandish. On the other hand it's kind of a bad omen that this was brought up almost a year ago and since than nothing happened in this direction apart from a few cool looking draft pages. We realy need a programmer to the cause. :D
Edit:
Hm reading up a bit more on this stuff, I guess it's first a matter of df hack supporting inventory, just like with items on the ground.
Post by: Rose on December 09, 2010, 04:14:24 am
we just need to get the inventory info from DFhack, which apparently is doable.
Post by: kolt16 on December 09, 2010, 05:03:34 am
Post by: Kc_spot on December 09, 2010, 09:16:28 pm
Post by: Rose on December 09, 2010, 09:20:51 pm
Post by: Kc_spot on December 09, 2010, 09:26:31 pm
Post by: Rose on December 09, 2010, 09:28:14 pm
Post by: Kc_spot on December 09, 2010, 09:29:17 pm
Post by: Kc_spot on December 09, 2010, 09:30:16 pm
oh in the creatures folder?
Post by: Rose on December 09, 2010, 09:33:14 pm
the one I'm referring to right now is in the root stonesense folder.
Post by: Kc_spot on December 09, 2010, 09:36:01 pm
I didnt the root folder index.
Post by: Rose on December 09, 2010, 09:37:20 pm
Post by: Kc_spot on December 09, 2010, 09:38:59 pm
but yeah
Post by: Myrmec on December 13, 2010, 12:55:14 am
I just started playing DF about 2 weeks ago and between this and Dwarf Therapist, the game is almost becoming manageable!
I used to be an animator, I worked for Firaxis Games and Big Huge Games... I did mostly 3d stuff but sprite graphics are fun. I would like to help create some art assets if there is still work needing to be done. How do I sign up? Thanks!
Post by: Rose on December 13, 2010, 01:11:45 am
Post by: Cardinal on December 14, 2010, 01:08:18 am
Post by: Rose on December 14, 2010, 01:11:06 am
Post by: Ovg on December 14, 2010, 08:04:46 am
And dfhacks 31.18 somehow disables creatures from showing up.
Post by: Rose on December 14, 2010, 08:31:12 am
read the first post.
Post by: Myrmec on December 14, 2010, 11:11:24 am
Also,
Are there any neglected content areas that are needing more development? I'm looking for a place to start working.
Post by: Rose on December 14, 2010, 11:26:50 am
you can even have directional randomly variated animated water tiles.
Post by: Myrmec on December 14, 2010, 07:42:09 pm
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 14, 2010, 08:35:25 pm
Post by: Rose on December 14, 2010, 09:47:33 pm
I better get back to work then.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 14, 2010, 11:30:28 pm
Post by: Myrmec on December 15, 2010, 11:13:19 am
Post by: Rose on December 15, 2010, 11:22:44 am
if so, just open the index.txt in the same folder, and uncomment the first line, and comment the second.
Post by: Myrmec on December 15, 2010, 11:37:12 am
That worked! The rivers look amazing like that!
BTW, I don't know what an SVN build is...?
Post by: Mike Mayday on December 15, 2010, 06:49:31 pm
is anyone making svn snapshots these days? I forgot how to compile again :(
Post by: Rose on December 15, 2010, 10:42:54 pm
not that there's anything special in the SVN right now.
Post by: therahedwig on December 16, 2010, 12:46:08 pm
I imagine this can enhance the immersion a bit, even though it probly doesn't work on constructed buildings.
Post by: Rose on December 16, 2010, 06:54:05 pm
I don't know if this has been asked before, as the thread is quite large by now, but is it possible to have different tiles for indoor and outdoor?
I imagine this can enhance the immersion a bit, even though it probly doesn't work on constructed buildings.
http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Sprite%20Guide.txt
Post by: uptonbeat on December 16, 2010, 08:54:34 pm
Post by: Rainseeker on December 16, 2010, 09:56:19 pm
Post by: Rose on December 16, 2010, 10:53:41 pm
If stuff's not workingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Smackinjuice on December 17, 2010, 06:07:39 pm
Post by: Rookie on December 18, 2010, 09:24:50 am
I tried using some of the repository's skins to see if they worked and still can't see them.
Other than that, this is great.
Post by: Greiger on December 18, 2010, 09:34:39 am
I imagine it's being worked on by the DFHack folks, but it's been awhile, so I'm guessing either the data is in some new format that is difficult to find, or the folks who usually did the creature offsets are gone. It has pretty much neutered a number of utilities. Fortunately stonesense still has most of it's functionality.
Post by: Savolainen5 on December 19, 2010, 02:45:22 pm
Post by: Rose on December 19, 2010, 08:25:20 pm
Post by: SHiLLySiT on December 24, 2010, 05:03:26 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on December 24, 2010, 05:29:06 pm
After trying to run this three times, crashed my computer twice after pressing F9 and worked once. I assume this is because it officially supports an older version of DF and I am currently running the newest.
If it's crashing your computer, you probably need to update your graphics drivers.
Post by: SHiLLySiT on December 27, 2010, 12:47:33 am
After trying to run this three times, crashed my computer twice after pressing F9 and worked once. I assume this is because it officially supports an older version of DF and I am currently running the newest.
Doh! Thanks. =]
If it's crashing your computer, you probably need to update your graphics drivers.
Post by: buckets on December 27, 2010, 12:50:46 am
After trying to run this three times, crashed my computer twice after pressing F9 and worked once. I assume this is because it
Dude I'm pretty sure you messed up your quotes...
officially supports an older version of DF and I am currently running the newest.
Doh! Thanks. =]
If it's crashing your computer, you probably need to update your graphics drivers.
Post by: Osmosis Jones on December 27, 2010, 04:28:25 am
After trying to run this three times, crashed my computer twice after pressing F9 and worked once. I assume this is because it
Dude I'm pretty sure you messed up your quotes...
officially supports an older version of DF and I am currently running the newest.
Doh! Thanks. =]
If it's crashing your computer, you probably need to update your graphics drivers.
Oh the irony.
Post by: forsaken1111 on December 27, 2010, 09:10:02 am
After trying to run this three times, crashed my computer twice after pressing F9 and worked once. I assume this is because it
Dude I'm pretty sure you messed up your quotes...
officially supports an older version of DF and I am currently running the newest.
Doh! Thanks. =]
I don't understand what is ironic about this.
If it's crashing your computer, you probably need to update your graphics drivers.
Oh the irony.
Post by: SHiLLySiT on December 27, 2010, 02:08:25 pm
[edit] Oh and i just noticed what I did above. OOPS! xD
Post by: buckets on December 27, 2010, 06:35:56 pm
It keeps happening!After trying to run this three times, crashed my computer twice after pressing F9 and worked once. I assume this is because it
Dude I'm pretty sure you messed up your quotes...
officially supports an older version of DF and I am currently running the newest.
Doh! Thanks. =]
I don't understand what is ironic about this.
If it's crashing your computer, you probably need to update your graphics drivers.
Oh the irony.
Post by: therahedwig on December 28, 2010, 08:54:10 am
I'm trying my hand at making a slighty darker variation on the current tileset.
From spriting experience I know that there's two parts of a tileset that make the most difference: The water and the grass.
I changed the later.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want to change the grass a bit more(it still tiles too much for me right now) and then I'll release at the least that here, so everyone can use it.
Post by: Andir on December 28, 2010, 09:56:05 am
Post by: Rose on December 28, 2010, 10:01:52 am
also, this document may be helpful:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/Sprite%20Guide.txt
Post by: Musashi on December 28, 2010, 10:03:22 am
Post by: Kogut on December 28, 2010, 10:07:46 am
Quote
DF31.16 compatible.Is it planned to make it working with 0.31.18?
Post by: therahedwig on December 28, 2010, 10:26:08 am
you should know that dark tundra is doing something similar, though he's been inactive recently.Thank you, you pointed me to the exact same document two pages ago ;).
also, this document may be helpful:
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/trunk/Sprite%20Guide.txt
I didn't know that about dark_tundra's attempts, but what I see from his screenshots it's not quite what I wanted to do.(I'm more of a handspriting person) According to the forum he hasn't been around for over a year though :s.
I'm happy people like the grass, I'll release that tonight then :).
EDIT: Sorry, he has been around today, he just lurks.
Kogut, compatability depends on the compatibility of DFhack. DFhack not compatible with DF == Stonesense not compatible.
DFhack can't find critters == Stonesense can't find critters. etc.
Post by: Rose on December 28, 2010, 10:36:47 am
my memory is terrible.
Post by: frog3 on December 28, 2010, 12:17:13 pm
Post by: Rose on December 28, 2010, 02:29:14 pm
Post by: therahedwig on December 28, 2010, 05:14:12 pm
Alright, here's the darker grass: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3617 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3617)
Just unzip the file inside the stonesense directory and add GD/index.txt to the index file, above all the other entries.
If you don't like the ramps, go into the GD directory, delete SSGDramps1.png and rename SSGDramps2.png into SSGDramps1.png.
I hope you'll enjoy!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In the meantime, I have managed to figure out the xml system well enough to figure out darktiles for insides. But I think I need to draw a whole lot of these things before I can really start modding it. (I've been winging it with trial and error now, but I presume the terrain values can somehow be found with df hack?)
Post by: Andir on December 28, 2010, 05:34:00 pm
Post by: therahedwig on December 28, 2010, 06:08:04 pm
Personally, it's the inside I had no problem with, but the overly bright outside was *blech* ... well, there are a few that could be toned down.
Well, I don't mind the insides too much when it comes to colours. However, I don't really like the fact that everything's a pallete swap of eachother. So I'm going to see if I can do something about that.(Though, I have to admit, trying to figure out how to make a tile for something like 'raw native silver' is actually quite hard...)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on December 28, 2010, 07:58:12 pm
... I presume the terrain values can somehow be found with df hack?)
Spoiler: Value list (click to show/hide)
Post by: therahedwig on December 28, 2010, 08:16:36 pm
Thanks you!... I presume the terrain values can somehow be found with df hack?)Spoiler: Value list (click to show/hide)
I'll go decipher that then :)
Post by: Jadael on December 29, 2010, 03:12:11 am
Personally, it's the inside I had no problem with, but the overly bright outside was *blech* ... well, there are a few that could be toned down.
Well, I don't mind the insides too much when it comes to colours. However, I don't really like the fact that everything's a pallete swap of eachother. So I'm going to see if I can do something about that.(Though, I have to admit, trying to figure out how to make a tile for something like 'raw native silver' is actually quite hard...)
You could look at my set for inspiration. I didn't really worry about trying to make mine fit in with the rest of the art, since I had a half-baked plan to replace ALL the graphics, but I did make every wall type.
I didn't worry about making them visually distinct from each other though, except for the ones that actually ARE visually distinct in real life, like malachite. But they are mostly more exaggerated in their unique features than in real life.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/stone_sheet.png
EDIT: I just had a sudden, unrelated idea.
What if you detected the stone *layer* of a wall, and drew that, then drew another sprite of the actual material that was just veins/crystals/clusters embedded in the layer sprite? For the sake of making terrain feel more cohesive, and things like precious metals and gems looking better.
Post by: Rose on December 29, 2010, 03:15:17 am
Personally, it's the inside I had no problem with, but the overly bright outside was *blech* ... well, there are a few that could be toned down.
Well, I don't mind the insides too much when it comes to colours. However, I don't really like the fact that everything's a pallete swap of eachother. So I'm going to see if I can do something about that.(Though, I have to admit, trying to figure out how to make a tile for something like 'raw native silver' is actually quite hard...)
You could look at my set for inspiration. I didn't really worry about trying to make mine fit in with the rest of the art, since I had a half-baked plan to replace ALL the graphics, but I did make every wall type.
I didn't worry about making them visually distinct from each other though, except for the ones that actually ARE visually distinct in real life, like malachite. But they are mostly more exaggerated in their unique features than in real life.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/stone_sheet.png
these look pretty good, actually.
I'm gonna go ahead and stick em in a sheet.
Post by: Jadael on December 29, 2010, 04:22:33 am
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2188428/jadael_stones.zip
Post by: therahedwig on December 29, 2010, 10:29:57 am
I was considering of doing this as well, though I'm thinking of how to order that in the xml.
EDIT: I just had a sudden, unrelated idea.
What if you detected the stone *layer* of a wall, and drew that, then drew another sprite of the actual material that was just veins/crystals/clusters embedded in the layer sprite? For the sake of making terrain feel more cohesive, and things like precious metals and gems looking better.
Speaking of which, how do you seperate the different materials and layers anyway? I mean I'm looking at jadael's file and it mentions "<subtype value="SILT" />" but I don't know if that's still a valid command...
Looking into it though, it seems that certain materials only appear in certain veins. Like, gold-ore is basically gold mixed with quartz. It's quite pretty.
Post by: Rose on December 29, 2010, 10:47:14 am
Post by: Dark-Star on December 29, 2010, 11:22:05 pm
(Especially if there are food plants still needing art...just reading down the list of stuff on the Genesis wiki makes me hungry!)
Post by: Rose on December 29, 2010, 11:23:41 pm
Post by: therahedwig on December 30, 2010, 10:00:49 am
18 different grasses, chickens, sheep, peafowl, rhinoceros and giraffe are a few of the confirmed things to show up.
Of course, it's unknown whether DFhack will be able to see all these things next release.
-thera, who has been pleased to learn that granite, diorite and gabbro are very much alike in RL and won't require more then a simple pallete swap :3
Post by: Rose on December 30, 2010, 10:24:56 am
so if you're making a set, you may want to change the colors of the materials to match what you have so that things made from those materials will look right.
Post by: therahedwig on December 30, 2010, 01:24:59 pm
It would be weird to have pinkish walls made from kaolinite and then red chairs made from the same stuff.
Post by: Casa on December 30, 2010, 03:12:28 pm
If I've missed the solution to my exact problem then my apologies. I figured it won't work because it only runs on versions .01 to .16, but I failed to find a trustworthy source for an earlier version of DF to run it with. Should I just wait for an update to Stonesense or is there a work-around? Preferably keeping my save file intact.
Post by: therahedwig on December 30, 2010, 03:49:14 pm
The downloadable stonesense is only for .16 but if you update the memory xml with the one mentioned somewhere in the opening post, you should get something to work.(Though without critters and dwarves :s)
Post by: Casa on December 30, 2010, 03:58:14 pm
Only one dumber thing now... I don't really know how to update this file.
Post by: therahedwig on December 30, 2010, 04:07:29 pm
You can open both with notepad.
Post by: Casa on December 30, 2010, 04:26:14 pm
Many thanks.
Post by: Qinetix on January 01, 2011, 05:40:09 am
Post by: therahedwig on January 01, 2011, 06:40:08 pm
I myself am getting somewhere, having done all intrusive introvert stones by palleteswap, and managing to do mica, microcline, orthoclase and olivine by palleteswap aswell. Only the ramps are going to be troubling. :/
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, variations is my most favorite tag. Even just two variations on one tile really helps.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, I can't seem to figure out how to define separate sprites for engravings, is it not suported yet?
Post by: Footkerchief on January 03, 2011, 12:47:09 am
Post by: Cruxador on January 03, 2011, 01:11:18 am
therahedwig: if you're looking for feedback, mine is that I think the tiles should have less contrast between dark and bright areas -- the lightness (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightness_%28color%29) shouldn't vary as much within a tile. The current tiles show a lot of detail, but with so many of them on the screen, it starts to look like visual noise, and it's harder to pick out creatures, buildings, etc. They're supposed to be background, but they're just as attention-grabbing as the foreground. Instead of dark specks, maybe try accentuating the shape of the large stones in the tile, or something.Depending on what one uses Stonesense for, this philosophy may not necessarily hold - it can be used to view architecture as much as to perceive creatures, buildings, and etc. For the purpose of seeing such things, I would agree with you, but if therahediwg is looking to make structures and forms of the fortress itself more visually dominant, then the speckling isn't inherently problematic.
Post by: Jadael on January 03, 2011, 02:38:25 am
Which is the big reason people disliked the super bright grass, even if they didn't realize it.
Post by: therahedwig on January 04, 2011, 02:17:58 pm
(http://www.beg.utexas.edu/mainweb/publications/graphics/granite-400.jpg)
See, it's speckled. So are diorite and gabbro. They're slightly differently speckeled, but that would've been too little for me to actually show the difference, so I swapped th colour.
I suposse I could remove the speckles, but then granite wouldn't look like granite anymore, but like greyish stone #23, and decreasing the contrast will make it so that people will see the speckles as part of the shading, removing any kind of shape from the object, making it full-on noise.
Another part of the problem is that I like making a big fucking mess out of my bedroom section.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also, Jadeal, I disagree with the notion that people dislike the superbright grass because of the noise. I say that people disliked the superbright grass because it's nuclear green. It catches too much attention compared to all other elements.
Anyway, I do really appreciate the critique. I'll try seeing if I perhaps should remove the speckles from the 'ceiling' parts of the walls AND/OR the floors, making a bigger difference between them, increasing visibility, while still retaining some speckels on the sides of the walls.
Post by: Footkerchief on January 04, 2011, 02:39:17 pm
Actually, I just wanted to make granite look like granite.Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
See, it's speckled. So are diorite and gabbro. They're slightly differently speckeled, but that would've been too little for me to actually show the difference, so I swapped th colour.
I suposse I could remove the speckles, but then granite wouldn't look like granite anymore, but like greyish stone #23, and decreasing the contrast will make it so that people will see the speckles as part of the shading, removing any kind of shape from the object, making it full-on noise.
That's what it looks like up close, but most things are speckled if you look close enough. Here's an actual granite wall. Note that the variations in the rock's color are no more pronounced than the light-and-shadow contrast created by the rock's texture:
(http://i51.tinypic.com/2wp45yg.jpg)
And as your viewing point gets farther away from a wall, the contrasts become more muted and homogeneous. Those speckles are what you'd see if you looked at a single chunk of rock up close, not if you looked at many far-away rocks.
Even if your depiction were realistic in that sense, it still wouldn't be a good idea. A realistic texture stops looking realistic when it's tiled 1000 times. (http://www.landscapemodeling.org/html/ch2/images/2.43.png) Realistic rocks have macrostructure, not just a single pattern repeated over and over. That's what makes your tiles noisy -- one tile might convey useful information, but the other 999 are just a redundant distraction. Their eye-grabbingness is way out of proportion to the amount of useful information that they convey.
Post by: therahedwig on January 04, 2011, 03:02:21 pm
Also, I'm a videogame artist in training, so you won't have to link to things like 'contrast' and horribly tiling textures, if that saves you time.
Post by: Footkerchief on January 04, 2011, 03:11:38 pm
it's about someone being able to recognise granite when confronted with it.
That's why I said:
That's what makes your tiles noisy -- one tile might convey useful information, but the other 999 are just a redundant distraction. Their eye-grabbingness is way out of proportion to the amount of useful information that they convey.
I agree that it's cool and useful for players to be able to recognize granite. Your tiles accomplish that, but they also detract from the comprehensibility of the image as a whole. I think you could strike a much better balance by using subtler visual cues.
Post by: Rose on January 04, 2011, 03:20:53 pm
Post by: therahedwig on January 04, 2011, 03:40:09 pm
Post by: jonask84 on January 04, 2011, 06:45:25 pm
It's good to be back at the computer again, Christmas has been a little crazy.
Gonna be nice to sit down and play a little bit again.
@therahedwig: I love the work you've been doing, these screenshots you posted look pretty great. I'm particularly a fan of the grass. If you ask me it's better contrast than what we used to have (especially with snow). I'm really excited to see how your graphics pack turns out. BTW, did you check out the Stonesense Content Repository over at the DF wiki?
Japa, what do you think about merging in at least the grass for now? I'm gonna try it when I get home but the pics looks pretty promising.
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 04, 2011, 07:02:23 pm
How cool would it be to have grass wither in autumn and winter? Trees drop leaf piles when autumn hits then are bare during the winter... etc.
Post by: Rose on January 04, 2011, 10:09:16 pm
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 04, 2011, 10:14:21 pm
the problem with that, is that they will still drop leaves if you play in a tropical climate.Perhaps a way to detect the climate from the biome data? I know it sounds complicated but I think it would add a lot to the visual presentation if you could see the seasons change.
Post by: Jadael on January 04, 2011, 10:25:49 pm
Post by: Dante on January 05, 2011, 01:56:46 am
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 05, 2011, 02:02:45 am
The problem then is that it's easy enough to generate maps with hugely different biomes. Snow next to hot desert, etc. So then you either have to check each individual tile's temperature value, or you have to work out an average over the map.Shouldn't the biome's general information be stored somewhere? Freezing/Cold/Temperate/Hot/Scorching etc
I really don't know, just an idea.
Post by: Rose on January 05, 2011, 02:13:42 am
Post by: Dante on January 05, 2011, 04:14:51 am
individual tile temperatures are in stonesense. if you enable debug mode, you can see them.Ok. I just assumed that having to keep checking every tile on the map to update the tile contents based on temperature would be extremely processor-intensive.
Post by: Rose on January 05, 2011, 04:17:41 am
each tile consist of a number of layers. when drawing, stonesense check various conditions to see weather or not it should be drawn. these include border conditions, bloodlevels, etc. adding temperature onto there isn't hard.
Post by: therahedwig on January 06, 2011, 01:40:30 pm
I happy you like it. I did know about the repository, but I had forgotten about it. I should see how to put up my stuff there then.
@therahedwig: I love the work you've been doing, these screenshots you posted look pretty great. I'm particularly a fan of the grass. If you ask me it's better contrast than what we used to have (especially with snow). I'm really excited to see how your graphics pack turns out. BTW, did you check out the Stonesense Content Repository over at the DF wiki?
Anyway. The messyness problem may have had something to do with bad tiling. So I've fixed the bad tiling, and made both speckled and unspeckled.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Footkerchief on January 06, 2011, 02:23:21 pm
Post by: therahedwig on January 06, 2011, 06:05:16 pm
Mica (http://"http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/mineral/mica/6muscovite-peel.jpg") Orthoclase (http://"http://skywalker.cochise.edu/wellerr/mineral/orthoclase/6orthoclase-cleavage5.jpg") and Microcline (http://"http://www.galleries.com/minerals/silicate/microcli/microcli.jpg")
In the meantime, I'm having trouble with cassiterite...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Right now it's looking more orblike then kristal-like. Should I make it more cristal-like or should I keep it? In the worst case I can use it for raw malachite (http://"http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/amber/go340/images/malachite.jpg").
After this I can start on the metamorphics, because that's what my first cavern is mostly made of.
Post by: linchowlewy on January 06, 2011, 06:43:20 pm
But currently i'm having the problem of none of my dwarves/animals/piles showing
is this a common problem? did i install it wrong? any help would be appreciated. thanks :D
Post by: jonask84 on January 06, 2011, 06:49:24 pm
Awesome program, really cool seeing my fortress as something not text.
But currently i'm having the problem of none of my dwarves/animals/piles showing
is this a common problem? did i install it wrong? any help would be appreciated. thanks :D
Glad you like it :)
What version on DF are you running? I think dwarves and animals are not done for .18 yet.
Piles and objects in general never really worked in Stonesense; there are too many of them (100,000+ in a normal fort) :)
Post by: linchowlewy on January 06, 2011, 07:13:15 pm
Post by: DwarvesH on January 07, 2011, 03:44:39 am
Let me start by saying how awesome Stonesense is. Not only does it work well and looks great, but it is also invaluable for people who have problems adjusting to the good old DF look.
My reasons for posting here are twofold.
First, I would like to mention my own efforts. For a few months Ive been working in my free time on a DF inspired game. It is very slowly starting to shape up, but I have not released it to the public.
But the main reason is that once I transitioned form a top-down to an isometric view, I needed some graphics and I have used the tiles from Stonesense to populate the world. As said before, I only did it on my version and my computer and did not make it public, but I do have a blog and a YouTube page where parts of the game can be seen. Whenever part of Stonesense tiles where visible, I accompanied the video with a disclaimer stating the origin of the tiles, giving credit of their ownership to Stonesense and specifying that they were inserted by a third party in an unofficial way.
So let me apologize for taking so much time before telling you about my project. I was busy with development and was not 100% sure that the project would survive. But now I am a phase where I can start thinking about my own tileset and no longer wish to use Stonesense tiles. Still, I thought it would be good to talk about it.
If the authors of the tilesets take offence at me using their tiles for demo purposes as images in a blog, the please contact me here. Im sure we can come to an understanding. I did not include a link to my blog as I do not wish to highjack this thread, but I will if you desire to see what I have accomplished.
Post by: Jadael on January 07, 2011, 03:58:52 am
Post by: DwarvesH on January 07, 2011, 04:46:08 am
Should start a thread somewhere about it, sounds neat. Personally, my tiles are open for use, and I even have a bunch of other little 3D rendered isometric tiles you could have of furniture and dwarfs and stuff.Thank you!
As said, I am trying to get a new original tileset together, but personally I would love to see that else you've got.
Ill start a thread in the near future, but until then here is a not so subtle way of presenting the links without high jacking this thread: check out my signature if you want to see what I have been working on.
Post by: Jadael on January 07, 2011, 05:30:09 am
Post by: Iceco on January 07, 2011, 07:28:45 am
Ah, well thats the problem. It appears i am running .18 oh well, how long will it be till they are available? because i can't wait to see my cow farm brought to lifeIt's apparently a DFHack issue, and Stonesense used that. They can't access the creatures because they are handled differently in the new version.
I know, my explanation is a bit sketchy, maybe others know more? (It might also be a good idea to add a detailed explanation in the opening post, since it's getting asked every few posts.)
I went over to the DFHack thread but can't find a sign of them even discussing the issue. Though probably, they are aware of it.
Meanwhile, I'm hoping for better gems (and ores?), as discussed a few pages back.
Is that on the roadmap?
Post by: Rose on January 07, 2011, 07:40:34 am
Post by: Truean on January 07, 2011, 10:14:42 am
Post by: jonask84 on January 07, 2011, 04:50:28 pm
@DwarvesH: Awesome to see your project coming along so nicely! :)
@Truean: Thanks for the heads up, I think I got em fixed.
Post by: DwarvesH on January 09, 2011, 04:56:24 am
@DwarvesH: Awesome to see your project coming along so nicely! :)Thank you!
Thanks to some of Jadael's stone graphics I am trying some really crazy things with stone tiles and layers. It is good to know that for now I don't have to worry about graphics and just code!
I have a question: how fast is Stonesense at rendering? My experience with it is slow but still very usable. Probably seems slower because of the way it periodically reads DF memory. I was wondering about the top rendering speed under ideal conditions, on a good machine where Stonesense gets along great with the hardware. Or at least average FPS that people are getting.
Post by: Rose on January 09, 2011, 05:33:15 am
if you enable debug mode in the init.txt, you can see the drawtimes.
Post by: DwarvesH on January 10, 2011, 03:55:58 am
stonesense is rather slow, at the moment. I kinda went for looks rather than speed, and there's a lot that can be optimised still.Hmmm, 144ms on a machine that does not like 2D OpenGL. That is almost 7 FPS. Are you using Allegro with OpenGL hardware acceleration? I have 10-13 FPS on the same machine with my engine and OpenGL. But I have 70 FPS with software rendering. DirectX is comparable. I am rendering 300x300x40 maps.
if you enable debug mode in the init.txt, you can see the drawtimes.
Indeed, you seem to have a performance bottleneck here. But it is OK if you want to focus on looks. There is no need for blazing speed if you have the refresh speed set to 0.2 seconds. Accurate representation of DF maps is far more important.
Post by: lemonpieman on January 11, 2011, 02:03:26 am
Post by: taodih on January 11, 2011, 05:43:13 am
How do I get stonesense to work in .18? when i try to use stonesense all i get is the "connecting to df" message
Read through some previous posts..
anyway , you can't for now , seemingy DFhack person is unavailable t'ill februari so it's only a partial 31.18 version, 31.16 does work fine.
I reverted back to 31.16 just because of it.
Post by: Rose on January 11, 2011, 05:47:12 am
Post by: lemonpieman on January 11, 2011, 05:50:11 am
How do I get stonesense to work in .18? when i try to use stonesense all i get is the "connecting to df" message
Read through some previous posts..
This is a 300 page thread.
Post by: Rose on January 11, 2011, 05:59:46 am
If stuff's not workingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
From the previous page, the one you presumably should have read through before reaching the post button
the dfhack guy is busy till February, so there will likeley be no updates till then.
@linchowlewy: Yeah it's a DFHack issue, and there's not much we can do about it but wait.
@DwarvesH: Awesome to see your project coming along so nicely! :)
@Truean: Thanks for the heads up, I think I got em fixed.
Post by: taodih on January 11, 2011, 06:07:53 am
How do I get stonesense to work in .18? when i try to use stonesense all i get is the "connecting to df" message
Read through some previous posts..
This is a 300 page thread.
on the page you posted your answer is found
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
[EDIT]... I'm rude today x.x sorry bout that , prolly not enough sleep.
Post by: Jadael on January 11, 2011, 06:45:17 am
stonesense is rather slow, at the moment. I kinda went for looks rather than speed, and there's a lot that can be optimised still.Hmmm, 144ms on a machine that does not like 2D OpenGL. That is almost 7 FPS. Are you using Allegro with OpenGL hardware acceleration? I have 10-13 FPS on the same machine with my engine and OpenGL. But I have 70 FPS with software rendering. DirectX is comparable. I am rendering 300x300x40 maps.
if you enable debug mode in the init.txt, you can see the drawtimes.
Indeed, you seem to have a performance bottleneck here. But it is OK if you want to focus on looks. There is no need for blazing speed if you have the refresh speed set to 0.2 seconds. Accurate representation of DF maps is far more important.
Well, some extra speed wouldn't HURT. I have a framerate way slower then it refreshes. It's kind of annoying trying to use Stonesense because it doesn't buffer keystrokes, I have to just hold it so it recognizes them at the frame update.
Post by: Rose on January 11, 2011, 07:00:53 am
I specifically didn't buffer the arrow keys, because I don't want a display that runs away even after you release the keys.
Post by: Jadael on January 11, 2011, 08:02:07 pm
Post by: Reese on January 12, 2011, 06:58:51 pm
It buffers some keystrokes, but not all.
I specifically didn't buffer the arrow keys, because I don't want a display that runs away even after you release the keys.
Could you make it buffer a single arrow key press and throw out any extra presses? that way I could press once for precision movement and holding would not cause the display to run away after.
Post by: Jadael on January 16, 2011, 05:46:13 am
Post by: Truean on January 17, 2011, 10:53:42 am
I'm perfectly ok with this and this post disappearing somewhere on the 300s section of this page.
;D
Post by: Nighthawk on January 17, 2011, 02:01:38 pm
I just laugh at the unintended benefits of people not reading the thread. We effectively have a sticky for stonesense, because everyone will keep posing and asking for updates, compatibility for .18, etc.
I'm perfectly ok with this and this post disappearing somewhere on the 300s section of this page.
;D
Yeah, I suppose it is funny how people can miss the bold print on the first page that says, "DF 31.16 compatible".
But I'm still waiting, and hoping for stonesense to be fixed with .18. I'm torn between re-downloading .16 to use stonesense and keeping .18 for the fixed combat in adventure mode. Gah. It may be funny how people keep asking, but hey, it's because they like stonesense, and they want to use it.
Post by: Qinetix on January 17, 2011, 02:04:24 pm
Post by: Truean on January 17, 2011, 09:25:56 pm
Post by: Rose on January 20, 2011, 02:57:46 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on January 20, 2011, 03:17:57 am
Just a heads up, the next version will be multithreaded, which mean twice the speed.
but I have 4 cores :'(
Post by: Rose on January 20, 2011, 03:22:12 am
Post by: Truean on January 20, 2011, 01:36:56 pm
Post by: akinzle on January 20, 2011, 10:54:03 pm
Just a heads up, the next version will be multithreaded, which mean twice the speed.NO WAY! I'm super excited.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 20, 2011, 11:24:28 pm
Post by: Urist Imiknorris on January 20, 2011, 11:32:54 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 01:43:44 am
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2011, 01:50:34 am
Post by: nbonaparte on January 21, 2011, 02:02:12 am
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2011, 02:03:41 am
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 03:19:58 am
Post by: zwei on January 21, 2011, 07:23:38 am
One core for DF, two for Stonesense, one for system processes?
Three Cores for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
Post by: forsaken1111 on January 21, 2011, 09:00:38 am
One core to rule them all,One core for DF, two for Stonesense, one for system processes?
Three Cores for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Nine for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
one core to find them,
one core the bring them all,
and in the darkness bind them.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 01:20:30 pm
What ever happened to that LOTR mod? I guess it got abandoned in the early stages...I was really looking forward to that.
Post by: SalmonGod on January 21, 2011, 04:38:45 pm
nice lol
What ever happened to that LOTR mod? I guess it got abandoned in the early stages...I was really looking forward to that.
I didn't know there was one. I've thought about making one.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 05:14:43 pm
spose with permission you could start with what was made? I cant mod worth a damn and I am sure I could learn...but I know I would disappoint many because I have way to much going on in my life right now to dedicate myself to something like this
Maybe we could convince Deon to do it :P...he made a wonderful Elder Scrolls mod for 40d
Post by: SalmonGod on January 21, 2011, 05:22:44 pm
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 06:27:38 pm
LOTR is my "base" idea of all things medieval fantasy
Not trying to derail the topic either...soooo
STONESENSE IS AWESOME GUYS! >.>
btw...do you need the 31.18 xml to run Stonesense in 31.18 or does the .16 one work? I know its only partial but I still want it to look at my buildings (making a wizards tower with the wizard tower mod right now....designed after Orthanc of course =P)
Post by: SalmonGod on January 21, 2011, 06:30:23 pm
Well if you want to start something I would be more than willing to help. I am a major Tolkien fan and I am a writer for the Oblivion middle earth total conversion mod...would be glad to help.
LOTR is my "base" idea of all things medieval fantasy
Highly unlikely, unfortunately... I wish I had more free time. Alas. Working full time with a college student wife and two kids while trying to launch an art career. I shouldn't be playing games at all, but damnit I'll be gaming through the apocalypse.
Post by: Andir on January 21, 2011, 06:32:20 pm
I'll be gaming through the apocalypse.Spoken like a true gamer.
Post by: SalmonGod on January 21, 2011, 06:38:40 pm
I'll be gaming through the apocalypse.Spoken like a true gamer.
It's in my blood. My dad knew Gary Gygax and I grew up rolling my parent's dice for them. My earliest memory is the first time I played a computer game (2 1/2 years old. Frogger. Sitting on my dad's lap in a university science lab at a computer meant to control a giant frickin laser hanging from the ceiling.) The Hobbit was also the first novel I ever read, when I was in first grade. Now I'm reading it to my 6 year old son.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 06:40:29 pm
Post by: Rose on January 21, 2011, 10:47:30 pm
btw...do you need the 31.18 xml to run Stonesense in 31.18 or does the .16 one work? I know its only partial but I still want it to look at my buildings (making a wizards tower with the wizard tower mod right now....designed after Orthanc of course =P)
yes, you need hte .18 xml to view .18 forts.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 21, 2011, 11:49:25 pm
Post by: Rose on January 22, 2011, 12:08:28 am
also...
Spoiler: warning, blindingly bright new features contained within (click to show/hide)
Post by: dennislp3 on January 22, 2011, 01:34:22 am
SNEAKY BASTARD! (I found it :P)
Post by: therahedwig on January 22, 2011, 05:13:46 am
In preparation of whatever toady's gonna come up with, I presume?
Post by: Rose on January 22, 2011, 05:14:45 am
Post by: dennislp3 on January 22, 2011, 05:32:28 am
Do all sprites always show up in the same position?...cause you could add a tiny (tiny tiny) curve into the palm trees and have them generate in a random facing to increase the look of variety....
Post by: Rose on January 22, 2011, 05:39:38 am
The reason I'm implementing these kind of trees is because in my personal head canon, the tree icons in DF are simply representations of the impassable trunk, with the rest of the tree being abstracted away because dorves aren't affected by it.
Post by: dennislp3 on January 22, 2011, 05:42:46 am
Keep up the good work! You guys have by far the best visualizer in my mind.
Post by: Kogut on January 22, 2011, 05:52:35 am
Is it possible to do sth with "green tile under tree and yellow around"
Post by: dennislp3 on January 22, 2011, 05:58:38 am
Post by: DwarvesH on January 23, 2011, 12:31:50 pm
Do we need to wait for 2.3 to try it out? I guess the only way to get my hands on it until then is to get it from SVN.
Post by: Bellerophon on January 26, 2011, 06:26:17 am
Post by: Rose on January 26, 2011, 06:29:42 am
Post by: Bellerophon on January 26, 2011, 06:40:06 am
there's a little-ish xml file that contains the rbg values for all materials in the game. the colors are hand-picked by me.
That's what I'm talking about. Colors_Stone_Mineral.xml - at least the one that ships with 2.2 - lists Orthoclase as <color red="248" green="487" blue="133">. Somehow Stonesense displays a colour more like (248,225,133).
Post by: Rose on January 26, 2011, 06:49:13 am
that's not meant to be that number.
and the values are capped at 255.
Post by: Bellerophon on January 26, 2011, 07:02:51 am
487? what?
that's not meant to be that number.
and the values are capped at 255.
Yeah, wasn't sure what was going on; figured it wasn't capping to 255 'cos if you bring 487 down to 255 then it renders orthoclase as pale green. Unless maybe there's a second typo and it's checking if they're over 255 then setting values over it to 225.
Post by: Rose on January 26, 2011, 07:30:56 am
487 was probably meant to be 187 or something. feel free to change it to whatever you wish. if you end up with better looking colors than the ones I put in there, we'll use yours instead of mine.
Post by: Bellerophon on January 26, 2011, 07:40:39 am
487 was probably meant to be 187 or something. feel free to change it to whatever you wish. if you end up with better looking colors than the ones I put in there, we'll use yours instead of mine.
Oh, in mine I'm changing all of them, just as a personal thing. They're all gonna be much dimmer than the current version. (EDIT: Muahahahah! (http://img.ie/62bc0.jpg) That's what you get for making my fortress absurdly technicolor, orthoclase, copper and bauxite!)
If you want to make the default number sane for 2.3, though, then changing the green value to 230 gives you the same shade as the 487 in the current XML. I'm guessing that's what allegro's sanity-checking it to. (187, incidentally, is full-on orange)
Post by: Rose on January 26, 2011, 07:43:45 am
Post by: shenle on January 29, 2011, 09:57:47 am
If anyone is interested I can forward them my buildlog.
Post by: Carcanken on January 30, 2011, 10:39:23 am
Post by: Qinetix on January 30, 2011, 10:43:17 am
Post by: Arphahat on January 30, 2011, 07:53:17 pm
Is there a way to make this work for 31.18?
What worked for me, based on what was recommended in the screenshot thread, was to copy the "Memory.xml" file from DFHack over the 2.2 Slate version of Stonesense.
Post by: shenle on January 31, 2011, 10:51:43 am
Or else, you have to download the last version of memory.xml. It can be found on this page: https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/tree/master/data under the name "memory-ng.xml". Download that file (direct link: https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/data/Memory-ng.xml - right click, "save as"), rename it to "memory.xml" and put it in the stonesense 2.2 directory (replacing the file already there). Works for me fine with 31.18.
Post by: Rose on January 31, 2011, 11:10:04 am
Post by: Pride on February 02, 2011, 06:40:51 am
For me the stonesense.exe from the SVN repository works with 31.18 as-is. It does crash every once in a while though.
Or else, you have to download the last version of memory.xml. It can be found on this page: https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/tree/master/data under the name "memory-ng.xml". Download that file (direct link: https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/master/data/Memory-ng.xml - right click, "save as"), rename it to "memory.xml" and put it in the stonesense 2.2 directory (replacing the file already there). Works for me fine with 31.18.
.
Post by: Jeoshua on February 02, 2011, 06:36:16 pm
What am I doing wrong? I'm using 31.18, with Stonesense 2.2 and the new xml from the first post.
Edit:
Okay nevermind, I did a little research and found out I'm using a version too new for Stonesense by all of a month. How can a month cause such changes? The answer to making this work has to be something minor, like memory offsets, right? Does anyone have any information on when a new version might be comming out? Or maybe any intrepid hackers who have figured out how to get a single creature to display?
Post by: nbonaparte on February 02, 2011, 09:18:17 pm
Post by: elpizo on February 02, 2011, 10:34:53 pm
Post by: shenle on February 04, 2011, 07:34:19 am
how do i change the memory doc. it sends me to internet explorer and i cant change stuff
If you read my post it says "right click, save as"
However after having used it for a few days I noticed that 2.2 with the new xml is very unstable and crashes a lot. For a quick peek while the game is paused it's OK, but don't keep it open for any length of time while you play. It usually crashes after 5-10 minutes at most, and brings the main game down with it. It also crashes as soon as an autosave kicks in, or when you do a manual save.
Post by: Jeoshua on February 12, 2011, 03:31:38 pm
Open back up Stonesense and close it again... DF will unfreeze
Post by: Greiger on February 13, 2011, 10:52:12 am
Post by: jetex1911 on February 13, 2011, 11:01:00 am
It only loads forever! Help!
Post by: Greiger on February 13, 2011, 11:42:12 am
It doesn't have critter values, so creatures don't appear, but it gets terrain and plants.
Post by: elf-fondling human on February 16, 2011, 08:11:07 pm
Post by: Greiger on February 16, 2011, 08:42:36 pm
Post by: strich on February 16, 2011, 08:43:30 pm
Heh I was kinda wondering how long it would take for somebody to ask...Less than 24 hours too. Impressive.
Post by: dennislp3 on February 17, 2011, 01:46:30 am
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 04:04:33 am
Post by: therahedwig on February 17, 2011, 10:25:18 am
(http://img.ie/cb180.png)
From what I gather there's four levels: none, sparse, 'normal' and dense.
Grayscale because I heard that some cave-grasses are rainbow coloured.
The lighter one is identical to the darker one, and mostly there to give some choice. Maybe some people would find the original a bit too dark.
I guess that if it's properly implemented, that the 'general' grass goes away?
EDIT:Dear lord, there's something like 40 grasses...
Post by: Truean on February 17, 2011, 02:21:49 pm
I suposse have some grass then:
(http://img.ie/cb180.png)
From what I gather there's four levels: none, sparse, 'normal' and dense.
Grayscale because I heard that some cave-grasses are rainbow coloured.
The lighter one is identical to the darker one, and mostly there to give some choice. Maybe some people would find the original a bit too dark.
I guess that if it's properly implemented, that the 'general' grass goes away?
EDIT:Dear lord, there's something like 40 grasses...
Simply awesome....
Post by: therahedwig on February 17, 2011, 05:50:48 pm
uhm, have some nestboxes, jugs, pots and hives then. (Yeah, there's no fletched hives in the game, but at the least people will recognise it instantly)
(http://img.ie/b0746.png)
Simply awesome....Thank you :3
I don't think I'm going to try my hand on the animals. My style is quite different from the general stonsense style, and it has only worked together up till now because I keep foccusing on the terrain.
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 06:53:40 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 17, 2011, 07:05:54 pm
If you plan to go for higher variety, do say.
For how decadently the different grass is just mere flavouring, I have to say I'm quite fond of it from a graphical point of view.(mostly because I've always wanted to sprite something that had a nice variety in plantgrowth, bit of a stupid reason, but hey)
Post by: Girlinhat on February 17, 2011, 07:14:05 pm
Post by: Truean on February 17, 2011, 07:19:02 pm
Even if there are 99 densities, the "k" look only displays, what, 3 or 4? So, probably easy to just clump all those together into 3-4 sprites so that the image reflects the "k" look in-game.
Agreed. Both the in game loo[k], and physically looking at it go for this approach. Eyes can't distinguish between 54 and 56 levels.
Now, you might make the argument for splitting it into more than four categories, because I could distinguish between 10 and 20 levels. However, the fact that the game itself only displays 4 works for me.
All I have to say is that maybe in the higher grass densities, we could use a solid grass color background. That way it looks like a carpeted grass . Just a thought.
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 07:28:36 pm
Post by: Vherid on February 17, 2011, 07:37:26 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 17, 2011, 08:03:36 pm
The higher grass densities might more require that they fill the square up more.
All I have to say is that maybe in the higher grass densities, we could use a solid grass color background. That way it looks like a carpeted grass . Just a thought.
I've tweaked the grass since then and I think it fills up quite nicely. Do note I as a human am not very capeble of mimicking the paterns DF, and above that stonesense will make, so in the end it'll be a bit more random.(is using tiled to make these images)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In the end though, having grass-tiles underneath the denser grass wouldn't be too much of a problem with the current capabilities of stonesense.
yeah, my point was that you could just do whatever number of sprites you want, and they can be used appropriateley.
Oh, okay, alright then :)
That's looking pretty sweet wigThanks :3
Post by: Dante on February 17, 2011, 08:51:14 pm
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 09:08:08 pm
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 09:58:03 pm
Post by: Rose on February 17, 2011, 11:15:33 pm
progress!
Post by: Deon on February 17, 2011, 11:32:44 pm
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 12:34:10 am
things not working, that I know of:
Ramps.
Grass colors.
also, if anybody wants to make colors for the various grass types, feel free.
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 01:06:39 am
Method 1 (currently implemented): as a separate tile, much like trees and bushes.
Method 2 (Not yet done): As an additional sprite layer on existing ground tiles.
method 1 allows for tall grass, like the ones already drawn.
method 2 allows for grass that forms to ramps, etc.
you will be able to use either, or both, but just remember that #2 has limits to how tall the grass can be.
Post by: Ovg on February 18, 2011, 01:25:34 am
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 01:36:55 am
(http://img.ie/c972c.png)
funny thing about the grass in DF.
a single tile can have 5 types of grass on it, but DF will only show the first one, so I decided to mimic that.
Post by: Deon on February 18, 2011, 01:48:55 am
Post by: Footkerchief on February 18, 2011, 02:00:21 am
Post by: Mayama on February 18, 2011, 02:04:55 am
Post by: rephikul on February 18, 2011, 02:08:51 am
Post by: Kogut on February 18, 2011, 02:38:44 am
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 02:51:01 am
I have not idea why, but here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1990956#msg1990956 grass looked a bit better.
that grass has been worked on more, and it's been put into a distribution that makes sense.
grass in DF is a lot more random.
soo... there's 37 types of grass, most of which can also be dry or dead.
have fun, guys.
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 18, 2011, 02:53:52 am
Quote
a single tile can have 5 types of grass on it, but DF will only show the first one, so I decided to mimic that.
how would it look with all the grass shown? do you have any screenshot of that?
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 03:01:24 am
(http://img.ie/25aa8.png)
the list down in the corner shows all the grasses growing on the tile. only the first is shown in DF, despite there being only 25 GRAMA and 100 BENTGRASS.
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 05:52:22 am
failure to deliver will result in me choosing shitty grass colors.
Post by: Flaede on February 18, 2011, 06:06:57 am
Looking back, however, I don't see mention of the creepy eyeball grass or the "wormy tendrils". I just rediscovered this thread, though, so I may have missed it.
oh, by the way, just remember that, should you want to, the grass can be animated.
Wormy tendrils and eyeballs should really be animated :D
Post by: Iceco on February 18, 2011, 06:08:11 am
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 06:10:36 am
What should those 37 colours be? All greens?
they should match the color you would expect from the particular type of grass.
also, if anybody comes across underground or evil grass that's dry or dead, tell me, so I can sob in a corner.
Post by: therahedwig on February 18, 2011, 07:59:20 am
https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AskSc2yd5RVudFVDSndmYm5oVng5ZERtZ1V3VUM0eFE&hl=en (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AskSc2yd5RVudFVDSndmYm5oVng5ZERtZ1V3VUM0eFE&hl=en)
None of the raws mentioned 'dead' which means that it's either hard-coded or in one of those tags. Either way, all grasses can dry and die.
There's also 'grass-colors' tag, but considering how much it's the same for all the grasses, I'm assuming it doesn't carry much data.
if you've got an idea for what colour to make certain plants, just add it in rgb and/or hex code.
The grass colors definitly need to be fixed, as Japa is currently in a tropical area and the grass I made was more reflecting the wetlands I started up in.
EDIT: also, it should be noted that in the examples, I used a much darker soil, which evened out the contrast.
Post by: Deon on February 18, 2011, 08:16:49 am
Post by: Greiger on February 18, 2011, 09:55:01 am
I'm sorry I had to tell you Japa. It's for your own good.
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 10:11:15 am
(http://img.ie/688c8.png)
sadly, new sprites will need to be made for dead and dry grass. dead natural grass can all use the same sprite, but the shrooms and eyeballs need their own sprite.
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 11:35:29 am
way too many types of grass in one spot.
Post by: Vherid on February 18, 2011, 12:22:18 pm
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 18, 2011, 12:28:02 pm
way too many types of grass in one spot.
so this is what they look all superimposed? messy; awesome but messy. I guess that ascii grass representation doesn't map very well on a tiling visualization system.
have grass defined an height in their raws?
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 12:32:47 pm
I'd love to make some colors and stuff but I don't know how. OR how to give it to you rather, do you really just shove it in a spreadsheet like the guy above or is he just doing that for organization?
he's doing it for organization, but I can take the colors from there easily.
Post by: Vherid on February 18, 2011, 12:36:43 pm
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 12:38:43 pm
that spreadsheet show's which ones have been done already, but that doesn't mean they are the best ones.
Post by: Vherid on February 18, 2011, 01:18:49 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 18, 2011, 02:10:28 pm
None the less, here's the white-sand wetland(so lots of reeds)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You are seeing rush, cattail, sawgrass and common reed.
The upper-picture shows a grass-tile underneath the grass-object and the lower doesn't have the grass-tiles, except for the ramps.
The common reed is with the colours I picked when spriting. the others are recoloured by stonesense.
I should start a new fort in a different biome, to see how things are going there.
Post by: Vherid on February 18, 2011, 02:16:47 pm
Satintail grass is the only grass color that I basically did the flowering color, because its not really flowering, the lower half is green, the upper half is around that pink. Any of the other grasses with flowering, I didn't get the flower color. I looked at pictures of each grass type and got pretty close colors, tried to go for the mid tones. I just picked orange for fungi, and browns/tans for dead/dry grass.
(http://i835.photobucket.com/albums/zz273/Vherid-srgl/7d10c43a.png)
RGB codes:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I could give you more dead/drys, any other colors, requests, etc. I'd be glad to
An example of the deadgrass coloring made by editing a previously posted pic:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 02:51:06 pm
also, here's your colors in stonesense:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 02:52:04 pm
Post by: Vherid on February 18, 2011, 03:01:14 pm
For dead grass you should probably use a light tan color and maybe a more thinned out sprite.
I think the fungi would look better if it had it's own more fungi looking tile too. As grass it kinda looks weird like that
Post by: Rose on February 18, 2011, 03:06:56 pm
Post by: Vherid on February 18, 2011, 03:23:52 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 19, 2011, 10:49:48 am
I think the colours given need to be a bit brighter. But I'm happy that the snow looks okay.
I tried brightening my own sprites, but that destroyed the constrast :/
A temperate savanna/mountain/temperate connifer forest.
I think I'll be doing seperate sprites for still quite a few grasses, aside from the magical ones, there's also the succulents.
Post by: Rose on February 19, 2011, 10:58:24 am
the darkest part of the sprite should stay where it is, but the brightest part of sprites that are made to be colorized should always be white.
and yeah, I specifically made the snow in such a way that it works with the things on the tile.
Post by: Vherid on February 19, 2011, 03:22:18 pm
Post by: Rose on February 19, 2011, 03:24:51 pm
Post by: Vherid on February 19, 2011, 03:48:45 pm
I think I'll be doing seperate sprites for still quite a few grasses, aside from the magical ones, there's also the succulents.
Yeah when i was looking at all of them, I'd say 1/3-1/2 of them were pretty unique from just being regular grass.
Post by: Necalli on February 21, 2011, 08:48:49 am
Any hints on how to run the old 2.2 version with DF 0.31.19? The thing is, I just need to view a slice of some caves in adventure mode, and i can't seem to find a tool that can do it.
If a new SS release is coming, then I'll patiently wait for it and won't bother you.
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 09:23:04 am
just download these three files, in this order, and use them to replace the ones in your stonesense directory. try running stonesense after each one, and stop when you have it working.
Memory.xml (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml) <== If it works with just this, that's the best.
dfhack.dll (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/dfhack.dll) <== This should only be used if the memory.xml alone doesn't work.
stonesense.exe (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/stonesense.exe) <== it's unlikely that this will be needed, and there's been lots of changes and bugs, but here it is.
Post by: Necalli on February 21, 2011, 10:58:37 am
PS: It appears those ancient mountain halls I was looking for are buried deep into the stone along with 20 dwarfs, and the only tunnel leading to another site is barricaded by a one-tile wide wall. I guess it's a tantrum hell down there.
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 11:06:04 am
I tried two steps as you said, both time it chrashed. At step 3, along with all files you've provided in the directory, it asked for allegro-5.0 DLLs at the startup. So, seing which of DLLs are needed, I copied them from Isoworld 0.9 (which I use frequently :) ), and it worked! Thanks for the help!
PS: It appears those ancient mountain halls I was looking for are buried deep into the stone along with 20 dwarfs, and the only tunnel leading to another site is barricaded by a one-tile wide wall. I guess it's a tantrum hell down there.
Right then, now that you have tried it out, do you find it to be smoother, than the previous version, or worse?
Post by: Necalli on February 21, 2011, 11:18:58 am
Right then, now that you have tried it out, do you find it to be smoother, than the previous version, or worse?Key response seems a bit slow, but it connects to DF almost instantly and is smoother overall when scrolling.
Post by: therahedwig on February 21, 2011, 12:53:41 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It took me 3 tries before df didn't crash upon embark.
I've assigned most grasses the first grass sprite. Also, curious fact: grasses are all 100 length on embark.
Also, Japa, I updated my svn map, but the new version didn't show the grasses, did you turn it off somehow?
Another thing, should I just sent you what I've got up till now per e-mail? I thought of just commiting it, but I'm not allowed to.
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 01:02:44 pm
And I'll see what's up with the grass not showing. I'm kinda working on stuff right now.
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 01:14:17 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 21, 2011, 01:25:24 pm
I mean, switching the colours is easy to me so it's not a problem to change the colours, whether through the grayscale manner or the coloured manner. I just need a bit of clarity.
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 01:28:29 pm
...
...
...
"We" meaning "I"
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 01:47:33 pm
Spoiler: Also (click to show/hide)
Post by: therahedwig on February 21, 2011, 02:12:35 pm
Spoiler: I see your multilevel trees and raise you wormy tendrils (click to show/hide)
Next up: eyeballs... Oh god, eyeballs...
EDIT: yes they've got animation frames.
Post by: Firgof Umbra on February 21, 2011, 02:21:41 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 02:29:44 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 21, 2011, 02:50:04 pm
The grasses start out randomised at 100 length. I noticed that after letting it grow for a bit, the new grasses were related to the grasses around them. So it the long run, or if you start digging/grazing away a whole lot, you'll end up with more clustered grass-types.
As for an ETA, I dunno. You can already get stonesense to work with the new memory xml, but I imagine Japa would want to see how much he can get to work and I myself will need to make at the least 3 other grasses before release.
Post by: Jeoshua on February 21, 2011, 03:38:45 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on February 21, 2011, 04:10:24 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 21, 2011, 04:14:34 pm
Now, on to more serious business.
In my mind (Jonas might say differently), this is first and foremost a low-requirement Visualization tool; without Tarn stating that he is okay with us taking Stonesense in the direction of a GUI, I'm not going to push for it.
Through our participation in the development process of Dwarf Fortress, we all start to feel a little sense of ownership of the game... we've suggested features, tested for bugs, designed mods, spread publicity, and ultimately supported Tarn in this monumental effort. We all need to remember, however, that this is still Tarn's project, not ours, and it's an unpaid project at that. No matter how excited we all get about Dwarf Fortress, it's not at all fair to push him to do something that he doesn't want done... and he has already voiced his apprehensions about 3rd party graphical interfaces, and how that would impact the project.
Judging by how several on-line communities are viewing this project, especially the folks who say "Wow, now I might try Dwarf Fortress now!" or "I think I could finally get my friends to try this!" one can see that there is definitly a demand for a more accessable interface. Heck, I've even had friends I know in person say that this would get them into the game way more. The problem is that, if players start to rely on such a 3rd-party interface, the team designing it would have to be as dedicated as Tarn with updates and new features, or such an interface would have to be officially adopted... and collaboration is something he has also expressed great reservations about, as this is his brainchild.
But yes, in the universe where we are given the go-ahead from Tarn, interpreting mouse and key input with Stonesense, and translating it to input for DF would probably be the way to go. I'd imagine that drop-down menus for Constructions (a simple point-and-click for designating mining, sizing bridges, laying out roads and walls, etc.) would be doable, though anything beyond that depends entirely on the degree to we can interface with the program itself.
For now, though, the thing that keeps us from even being able to consider a GUI is the wealth of graphical issues that still need ironing out. We need tile rotations, fixes for some of the graphical hiccups such as the "Escher Effect", and a -Lot- more tiles and sprites. For now, focus on that, and if we can eventually pitch a solid visual display and interface to Tarn, and prove that this is a dedicated project, maybe we'll see such a thing down the road.
Post by: goodhamster on February 21, 2011, 08:41:19 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 08:48:57 pm
Post by: goodhamster on February 21, 2011, 08:52:46 pm
Post by: JanusTwoface on February 21, 2011, 08:57:53 pm
The who? I take it patience is key.Short answer: Yes.
Only slightly longer answer: DFHack is the backend that actually talks with DF and is maintained separately from Stonesense itself. So when DF updates, DFHack has to update, then Stonesense gets the updates more or less for free.
Post by: Girlinhat on February 21, 2011, 09:29:01 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 09:35:30 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2011, 09:52:54 pm
Spoiler: New magical grass. now I need to add in support for dead and dry grass. (click to show/hide)
Post by: goodhamster on February 21, 2011, 10:02:55 pm
Thanks for the quick replies.
Also, even if you broke it sorta, I'm confident you'll fix this. Awesome mod/utility.
Post by: Andir on February 21, 2011, 11:27:50 pm
To make it simple: Toady releases DF. DFHack grabs DF info. Stonesense grabs DFHack info. Each must be updated in line, and DFHack is a tad behind on this one. So just sit back and wait a bit for full featured goodness.So just sit right back and you'll hear a tale
a tale of a faceless script
that started on a tiny thread
aboard some tiny chip...
?
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 12:37:12 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: therahedwig on February 22, 2011, 12:50:28 am
In the meantime I managed to make 6 extra grasses, for the ones that are a bit more then just normal grass.
That would be cattail, white mountain heather, cloudberry, mountain avens, satin tail and (dropseed grass and needle grass sharing one sprite).
Mountains in particular will be very colourful to embark on.
I think I might give meadow sweet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sweet_curve.jpg) a seperate sprite as well.
It's strange though, all flower-grasses seem to be white, even though normal mountain heather and normal heather are pinkish. I wonder why toady went for this specifically.
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 04:15:12 am
Post by: Jiri Petru on February 22, 2011, 06:45:28 am
(http://obrazku.cz/obr633934_markusalder.png)
But maybe it looks more like an oak? ???
EDIT: Hmm... I've tried to put it to a Stonesense screenshot in Photoshop but it sill looks too small. Maybe 2x2x2 trees are still tiny? Enlarging it 200% worked nice, but it was of course too pixelated. I'll try to draw something even larger later. In the meantime, any feedback is welcome.
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 06:59:34 am
Post by: Jiri Petru on February 22, 2011, 07:12:29 am
The other issue I can see is that when I try to create a mock-up screenshot, it blends all to well with the new grass. On the old grass, the tree looks nice and is clearly visible, but it's hard to see in the new grass which is a bit more busy and colourful. I think I might have to wait till you finish the grasses so I can choose good palettes for trees in different biomes.
EDIT: This might be caused by not having any shadow. Do we want trees to have shadows? And if yes, shall I draw them as part of the sprite, or will the engine handle them itself?
EDIT2: Seeing as nothing in Stonesense casts shadows, this was probably a bad idea.
Post by: therahedwig on February 22, 2011, 08:20:06 am
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 08:44:07 am
the trouble with tree shadows is that what happens when the shadow is on an open space?
Post by: Flaede on February 22, 2011, 09:16:37 am
Quote
# stopped regrow from adding extra grass types on a tile
Will this change things? I know people were doing really cool things with the new grasses a few pages back, but i couldn't tell if they were getting the effects through overlaying multiple grasses sprites. If they were, then Toady removing that bit of coolness makes me sad.
Post by: kenlon on February 22, 2011, 02:10:51 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on February 22, 2011, 02:28:22 pm
Will this change things? I know people were doing really cool things with the new grasses a few pages back, but i couldn't tell if they were getting the effects through overlaying multiple grasses sprites. If they were, then Toady removing that bit of coolness makes me sad.
IIRC it looked like crap when they tried to display multiple grass types at once, so they were already displaying only one grass type per tile.
Post by: Andir on February 22, 2011, 03:39:28 pm
DFHack now supports .19 - what's the ETA on a working Stonesense?Why is it that every time I read one of these (usually posted like 30 minutes after the DFHack update) I imagine someone creeping back and forth on their chair biting their nails while humming a song?
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 04:06:37 pm
Will this change things? I know people were doing really cool things with the new grasses a few pages back, but i couldn't tell if they were getting the effects through overlaying multiple grasses sprites. If they were, then Toady removing that bit of coolness makes me sad.
IIRC it looked like crap when they tried to display multiple grass types at once, so they were already displaying only one grass type per tile.
Actually, we never even bothered. What we did that looked like crap was displaying the grass type that was the most dense, when DF shows the first one in the list regardless.
Post by: Andir on February 22, 2011, 04:30:20 pm
Not to be a bother, but could that be a flaggable option?Will this change things? I know people were doing really cool things with the new grasses a few pages back, but i couldn't tell if they were getting the effects through overlaying multiple grasses sprites. If they were, then Toady removing that bit of coolness makes me sad.
IIRC it looked like crap when they tried to display multiple grass types at once, so they were already displaying only one grass type per tile.
Actually, we never even bothered. What we did that looked like crap was displaying the grass type that was the most dense, when DF shows the first one in the list regardless.
Post by: eljacko on February 22, 2011, 05:03:30 pm
Post by: Rose on February 22, 2011, 05:07:22 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 22, 2011, 06:55:11 pm
Well, it won't actually matter anymore now would it?Not to be a bother, but could that be a flaggable option?Will this change things? I know people were doing really cool things with the new grasses a few pages back, but i couldn't tell if they were getting the effects through overlaying multiple grasses sprites. If they were, then Toady removing that bit of coolness makes me sad.
IIRC it looked like crap when they tried to display multiple grass types at once, so they were already displaying only one grass type per tile.
Actually, we never even bothered. What we did that looked like crap was displaying the grass type that was the most dense, when DF shows the first one in the list regardless.
Quote
# stopped regrow from adding extra grass types on a tile
I think Toady wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for Deon's suggestion thread about having the tallest grasses show up instead of the first grasses.
Post by: Andir on February 22, 2011, 07:35:44 pm
I think Toady wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for Deon's suggestion thread about having the tallest grasses show up instead of the first grasses.Ah, good call. Shows how much I pay attention to the release notes.
Post by: therahedwig on February 23, 2011, 10:23:51 am
Actually, that's the development page...I think Toady wouldn't have noticed if it weren't for Deon's suggestion thread about having the tallest grasses show up instead of the first grasses.Ah, good call. Shows how much I pay attention to the release notes.
None the less, this is actually a good thing:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It seems that right now newer grasses overtake the older ones, but somehow it does so in squares? If the 'multiple grasses per tile' dissapears, this may not actually happen. Otherwise, getting rid of the new object-grasses is quite easy.
In other news:
Spoiler: ♪♫The hills are green with the sound of music. ♪♫ (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: The caves, reminding me I should alter those colour values in the xml. (click to show/hide)
Thank you Japa, for fixing the grass-support so quickly.
Aaaand I should go decipher the workshop-xml stuff, so I can kick in those beehives and nestboxes.
Which reminds me, we still need the 16 new domestic animals? Can someone help me with that?
EDIT:
Spoiler: Now your bee-emperium can be viewed in Stonesense! (click to show/hide)
Post by: Truean on February 23, 2011, 02:22:41 pm
Those blank looking squares, usually pebbles, bare rock, or boulders, can those be made to grow grass? I realize fully that those have been around since I started playing at the beginning of 40d and are probably hardcoded into the game. That said is there anything that can be done to make grass look uniform over them? (Perhaps even digging them down a z level to expose a fresh soil layer to the surface? )
Post by: Flaede on February 23, 2011, 02:31:26 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 23, 2011, 02:39:11 pm
Question:
Those blank looking squares, usually pebbles, bare rock, or boulders, can those be made to grow grass? I realize fully that those have been around since I started playing at the beginning of 40d and are probably hardcoded into the game. That said is there anything that can be done to make grass look uniform over them? (Perhaps even digging them down a z level to expose a fresh soil layer to the surface? )
I don't think so, the thing is, grass only grows over soils. (weirdly, it'll even grow inside newly dug underground chambers that are in soil).
I mean, digging probly works... if you have a soil layer beneath it. (testing it out now)
Bah, the grasses 'square out' after one season already.
Post by: Mayama on February 23, 2011, 03:54:53 pm
Post by: murdersmith on February 23, 2011, 04:50:14 pm
I love the retro look.
But I am trying to build Stonesense on my linux machine for the better part of a day now, and I still can't get it to compile.
Here is what i have done:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It would be great if you could suggest some solution. Thanks!
Post by: Deon on February 23, 2011, 05:46:19 pm
In other news:(all the mountain specific grasses contain flowers)Spoiler: ♪♫The hills are green with the sound of music. ♪♫ (click to show/hide)Spoiler: The caves, reminding me I should alter those colour values in the xml. (click to show/hide)
I think... I think I am becoming an elf... I SEE YOUR DEVIOUS PLAN!!! GRASS BEGONE... Or not... I am not sure anymore.
Horrific results!
Post by: therahedwig on February 23, 2011, 07:53:56 pm
In other news:(all the mountain specific grasses contain flowers)Spoiler: ♪♫The hills are green with the sound of music. ♪♫ (click to show/hide)Spoiler: The caves, reminding me I should alter those colour values in the xml. (click to show/hide)
I think... I think I am becoming an elf... I SEE YOUR DEVIOUS PLAN!!! GRASS BEGONE... Or not... I am not sure anymore.
Horrific results!
Ah, but, uhm...
Oh blast it, I've been sitting on this long enough:
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.1 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3842)
Spoiler: It has (click to show/hide)
The stones are categorised per group, so if you wish you can go into the index file within the Grim Dark map to turn a group off.
It's not finished, so use at your own risk I supose. I'll make releases each time I've got one group fully finished.
Post by: Vherid on February 23, 2011, 08:13:48 pm
Post by: Rose on February 23, 2011, 08:22:08 pm
Firstly - I am very, very impressed by screen-shots form this tread - you have done a stellar job!
I love the retro look.
But I am trying to build Stonesense on my linux machine for the better part of a day now, and I still can't get it to compile.
Here is what i have done:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It would be great if you could suggest some solution. Thanks!
yeah, my bad. I didn't add all the CPP files to cmakelists.txt. I'll get right to that.
Post by: Rose on February 23, 2011, 09:48:52 pm
Firstly - I am very, very impressed by screen-shots form this tread - you have done a stellar job!
I love the retro look.
But I am trying to build Stonesense on my linux machine for the better part of a day now, and I still can't get it to compile.
Here is what i have done:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It would be great if you could suggest some solution. Thanks!
yeah, my bad. I didn't add all the CPP files to cmakelists.txt. I'll get right to that.
And fixed.
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 23, 2011, 11:35:48 pm
The stone looks really nice in thatCan we get a few shots?
Post by: JanusTwoface on February 23, 2011, 11:37:35 pm
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.1 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3842)
Post by: forsaken1111 on February 23, 2011, 11:38:47 pm
There are a few on the DFFD page linked to:Oh, yeah it does look nice. :)Stonesense Grim Dark 0.1 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3842)
Sorry, didn't click through.
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2011, 10:34:01 pm
Spoiler: Custom workshops are now working. shown here is a soap-maker's workshop. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Lehti on February 25, 2011, 04:24:32 am
Quick question: is the creature display still broken due to dfhack issues?
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2011, 04:44:58 am
Long answer: creatures are the most difficult to get working, and you shouldn't expect them to be read for another few weeks at least.
Post by: Greiger on February 25, 2011, 08:08:17 am
Post by: mareck on February 26, 2011, 08:44:32 am
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2011, 09:23:04 am
Post by: Deon on February 26, 2011, 10:19:07 am
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2011, 10:33:59 am
try it first, then complain about compatibility.
Post by: Deon on February 26, 2011, 10:35:57 am
But having a misleading first post is something which could be changed easily, so I just pointed out.
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2011, 10:37:45 am
I didn't? I use 0.31.19 :D.
But having a misleading first post is something which could be changed easily, so I just pointed out.
so do I.
Post by: therahedwig on February 26, 2011, 04:18:29 pm
(http://img.ie/57820.png)
Though only my desert biome wants to dry out at the moment.
Also, I, in a fit of madness, made seperate sprites for all grasses. However, while the temperate biomes look okay, I'm worried that this(a tropical badland) might be too bright? I mean, you can barely recognise the trees straight away.
(http://wolthera.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/grasses-stonesense.png)
Screen of a temperate biome for comparison.
What do you guys think?
Post by: Jiri Petru on February 26, 2011, 04:28:18 pm
What do you guys think?
That we need new tree sprites :)
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2011, 04:31:11 pm
Post by: therahedwig on February 26, 2011, 05:29:40 pm
Trees are bigger==more work.
Also, the new multitile tree system is a bit difficult to handle. As far as I know from experimenting with it, flat pictures like Markus's Alder won't do, as the multitile tree system is defined asif the tree was actually an object within DF. So it's a threedimensional setup.
On top of that, when you change the viewpoint, the tree tiles will stay in their original place. So if you have a tile that has a branch going downleft to the trunk, and you change the viewpoint, the branch will still be going downleft... even though it should be going down-right. It's an expected situation, and would require you to make 4(or less) viewpoints of a tree and to write the xml so that it knows what sprite to pick. However I don't know whether the border_open and border_closed work on a construct that only exists within stonesense as opossed to the game.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 26, 2011, 10:10:10 pm
Post by: Neonivek on February 27, 2011, 02:26:58 am
I'm 7 trees into 31, it's slow work.
Could be worse. There could be a tree randomisation thing so that there are actually 10 different sprites of the same tree. More if "Swaying in the breeze" animation is added.
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2011, 02:58:18 am
I'm 7 trees into 31, it's slow work.
Could be worse. There could be a tree randomisation thing so that there are actually 10 different sprites of the same tree. More if "Swaying in the breeze" animation is added.
you mean those two features that are in stonesense right now?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 27, 2011, 03:04:12 am
I'm 7 trees into 31, it's slow work.
Could be worse. There could be a tree randomisation thing so that there are actually 10 different sprites of the same tree. More if "Swaying in the breeze" animation is added.
-If- I choose to do that, it will be -after- I've finished with these still, uniform trees. (So many trees...)
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2011, 04:48:52 am
Spoiler: I'll just leave this here... (click to show/hide)
Post by: Flaede on February 27, 2011, 04:55:09 am
EDIT: Hehe That tree down in the bottom below the farm plot... has eyes.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/square_Peg/DF/eyetree.jpg)
Post by: Greiger on February 27, 2011, 10:11:57 am
Japa I totally love you. In a weird way now too.
Post by: Flaede on February 27, 2011, 10:14:20 am
Nobody noticed the visible dwarves?
Japa I totally love you. In a weird way now too.
They are visible! Joy and jubilation.
I was distracted, the tree was staring at me.
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 27, 2011, 11:36:54 am
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2011, 11:47:20 am
can I have some visible dwarves too?
no.
>:(
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 27, 2011, 12:10:25 pm
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2011, 01:49:57 pm
Spoiler: Messing around with possible features. (click to show/hide)
Post by: therahedwig on February 27, 2011, 02:16:18 pm
Though, perhaps the unsee-able area's might be a wee bit too dark? You really get a splash of bright-lighted stuff on the screen this way.
Post by: LoSboccacc on February 27, 2011, 02:48:04 pm
(confirmed via in games menus. noticed only now that dfhack creatures are working)
Post by: therahedwig on February 27, 2011, 03:10:45 pm
I think this is just the weird genetics system at work :)
Post by: thvaz on February 27, 2011, 04:45:56 pm
Post by: Rushmik on February 27, 2011, 06:52:38 pm
Quote from: LoSboccacclink=topic=43260.msg2026585#msg2026585 date=1298837445
well, I got it working. anyone else has all the dwarves golden yellow haired?
(confirmed via in games menus. noticed only now that dfhack creatures are working)
Is this .19? I'd kill for a stonesense compatible with .19, with or without grass and creatures. It's hit and miss building an above-ground village without it.
I tried the quick-fix a few pages back and none of the three solutions worked. I had the same error (a missing .dll) as the other guy, but with no way to fix it. :C
Post by: thvaz on February 28, 2011, 01:19:59 am
Post by: Necalli on March 01, 2011, 12:27:10 pm
I tried the quick-fix a few pages back and none of the three solutions worked. I had the same error (a missing .dll) as the other guy, but with no way to fix it. :CYou might try this, additionally:
- Download Japa's IsoWorld 0.9 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=70700.0), unrar it (a handy utility itself, mind you).
- Copy those files from IsoWorld to Stonesense directory:
allegro-5.0.dll
allegro_dialog-5.0.dll
allegro_font-5.0.dll
allegro_image-5.0.dll
allegro_primitives-5.0.dll
allegro_ttf-5.0.dll
Post by: Rushmik on March 01, 2011, 07:45:45 pm
Post by: Necalli on March 01, 2011, 08:57:05 pm
Just bumping it.
Post by: Granite on March 01, 2011, 10:17:27 pm
Oh, and for those who demand seeing dwarves and other minor creatures: don't forget to update your Memory.xml (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/Memory.xml)Thanks1 :D
Just bumping it.
Post by: Jeoshua on March 03, 2011, 10:22:52 am
If there was any reason to get 31.19, it's now this. Love the way the new content is looking, can't wait to play with it... and is that an adventurer shot? No more grey walls at the edge of your vision? Cause I'd love you forever for that. :D
Post by: Thundercraft on March 03, 2011, 10:32:47 am
If there was any reason to get 31.19, it's now this.
Dang it! That's so not fair!
Just because some of use have been sticking with .18... :P
Post by: Truean on March 03, 2011, 01:54:24 pm
The title page says 31.16 compatible, yet people are posting 31.19 will work if you add in one file (that seems to lead to a webpage...).
I am unsure exactly what to do with this. Would someone please be so kind as to instruct me on what to do?
Thank you.
Post by: thvaz on March 03, 2011, 02:18:51 pm
2)save the linked memory.xml provided on the first page in the folder you extracted stonesense
3) :o
4) profit
Post by: Truean on March 03, 2011, 02:25:16 pm
1) download the Stonesense provided in the link on the first page
2)save the linked memory.xml provided on the first page in the folder you extracted stonesense
3) :o
4) profit
Ok, but won't that only give me the xml compatible for for 31.19? I thought that was just the stuff for 31.16?
Post by: thvaz on March 03, 2011, 02:42:40 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 03, 2011, 03:45:06 pm
If I understand it correctly he's doing his best making sure the links in the first post link to the updated files properly, regardless of what the OP says. And it's probably a minor miracle that has worked out so far.
Post by: Thundercraft on March 03, 2011, 05:05:07 pm
1) download the Stonesense provided in the link on the first pageOk, but won't that only give me the xml compatible for for 31.19?
2)save the linked memory.xml provided on the first page in the folder you extracted stonesense
3) :o
4) profit
I downloaded and substituted the newly released memory.xml like everyone says to do, but for me it still fails to show dwarves or any creatures. I think that's because I'm using 31.18.
I would really appreciate it if someone else chimes in on whether or not they were able to get this to work with 31.18. I'd like to confirm as fact whether or not the new memory offsets only work for 31.19.
So, to me, it seems rather presumptuous to say "4) profit" without being more specific.
The memory.xml is updated to 31.19.
At this point, it seems like it could be more accurate to say "The memory.xml is updated for 31.19." Saying "to 31.19" implies that it works for every version from 31.16 through 31.19.
Post by: therahedwig on March 03, 2011, 05:44:11 pm
Perhaps with the new algorithm work being done on DFhack, we might be able to create a xml for 31.18 later?
Post by: thvaz on March 03, 2011, 06:04:32 pm
I was trying to help and I'm rather broken at English. And I was really answering Truean, whom didn't made clear what version he was using.
Post by: Rose on March 03, 2011, 08:44:52 pm
you can easily load your old fort in .19, and it'll work fine.
Post by: Thundercraft on March 04, 2011, 12:20:13 am
Yeah, creatures work with .19, but not .18. Finding the creature offsets is a lot of work, and the guy who does them didn't want to waste his time with an older version.
you can easily load your old fort in .19, and it'll work fine.
A waste of time, you say? IMO, that is backwards thinking.
I posted my reasoning here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.msg2040861#msg2040861).
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2011, 12:40:34 am
Post by: Thundercraft on March 04, 2011, 01:41:59 am
I'm just saying that some of us are so off-put by the bugs and other aspects of .19 that we refuse to migrate our games to .19, deciding to wait until .20 or later (which should be coming very soon). Besides, migrating a .18 save over to .19 will not allow us to enjoy the new creatures and features. So why bother?
Post by: Girlinhat on March 04, 2011, 01:46:01 am
Also, download .19, copy your save, run it, view it, close it, go back to .18. It's not ideal, but, you use what you've got and you stop complaining, like a real dwarf should.
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2011, 01:58:30 am
Post by: Andir on March 04, 2011, 10:00:28 am
Post by: Greiger on March 04, 2011, 10:13:17 am
In version .19 Stonesense appears very dark, except in locations that contain stockpiles (which are normal brightness) the day/night cycle is off, show stockpiles and show zones are both off. Any thoughts?
Spoiler: example image (click to show/hide)
The image has debug mode on showing an aboveground outside area. The two lit areas are a refuse stockpile(left) and plant/seeds stockpile(right).
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2011, 10:20:25 am
there was, at one point, a version up that did that, but the latest one shouldn't.
Post by: Greiger on March 04, 2011, 10:26:52 am
Pardon the ignorance but is the link in the first post still to the newest version? And if not where do I locate it? I have been having difficulty keeping up lately.
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2011, 10:36:13 am
http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/source/browse/#svn%2Ftrunk
just keep in mind that getting the exe from there will likely result in needing to get the dfhack.dll and memory.xml, and possible also the allegro dlls.
just a disclaimer, though, the files there are in a state of flux, and change often as I try new features. at any given time, things may behave oddly, or crash outright.
Post by: Greiger on March 04, 2011, 10:41:08 am
*group-hug*
Post by: Truean on March 04, 2011, 12:25:57 pm
Given that this thread is now 320 pages long, would it be feasible to separate it? There used to be a thread just for screenshots, but it seems to have died. Before I necro it, does this sound like a good idea? http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=48172.0
I imagine it might make things easier to find with embedded links. No?
Tech support questions
Images
Software, (versions and links to wiki)
Suggestions
Other?
Just a thought,
Truean
Post by: therahedwig on March 04, 2011, 04:16:29 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I haven't done the ramps for these yet...
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3842)
I think that perhaps the thread should be renewed somehow, mostly because I imagine it's very hard for people to find information in this thread.
Also, I totally didn't know about that screenshot thread >_> I think it's a good idea to necro that one...
Post by: Truean on March 04, 2011, 04:53:47 pm
Alright, I did all the ores! And the bugs are out of the granite/diorite/gabbro :)Spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I haven't done the ramps for these yet...
Stonesense Grim Dark 0.2 (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=3842)
I think that perhaps the thread should be renewed somehow, mostly because I imagine it's very hard for people to find information in this thread.
Also, I totally didn't know about that screenshot thread >_> I think it's a good idea to necro that one...
Nice Job.
Agreed, though I don't feel I would act unilaterally on this. Perhaps an organizational threading is in order. Regardless, I'm sure all will agree the necroing of the image thread can only help.
Is OP still around?
Post by: therahedwig on March 04, 2011, 05:22:45 pm
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2011, 08:34:51 pm
Post by: therahedwig on March 04, 2011, 09:04:03 pm
I guess I'll revive that screenshot thread once the new Stonesense is out. There's been a lot of changes after all, and I would say that deserves having the thread necro-ed.
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2011, 09:06:07 pm
1) When you have an interesting looking screenshot.
2) when you have a not-very-interesting looking screenshot.
Post by: Truean on March 04, 2011, 09:16:59 pm
Times when it's appropriate to revive the screenshot thread:
1) When you have an interesting looking screenshot.
2) when you have a not-very-interesting looking screenshot.
Well yeah, but the problem is everyone forgot it existed.... So, it never gets screenshots anymore because of that. Necro solves problem. No?
Honestly, it's been a few months since the last post in it, and clearly we have way more features now.
Post by: therahedwig on March 04, 2011, 11:37:27 pm
(http://img.ie/33620.png)
Quote
Fog color, and alpha at the bottom z-level.
Setting the alpha to 0, or SHOW_FOG to NO disables fog, for a slight performance increase.
Color and alpha ranges are 0 (min) to 255 (max)
[SHOW_FOG:YES]
[FOG_RED:128]
[FOG_GREEN:158]
[FOG_BLUE:177]
[FOG_ALPHA:10]
Also, I noticed that the hotkeys for the stockpile-toggling and the zone-toggling are switched from what the readme says. U is zone-toggling and I is stockpile-toggling.
For the screenshots... I'm waiting on two things: 1) the next version has some bugfixes on the grass. I hope it will fix the 'growing into a square' behaviour grass has now. 2) full-screenshots to work properly.
Post by: Rose on March 05, 2011, 12:05:22 am
as for the full screenshot thing, now that stonesense is threaded, things become a little more complicated on that front. I'll do what I can, but don't hold your breath.
Post by: Rose on March 06, 2011, 04:14:26 am
nothing on full screenshots, though.
Post by: Cuddly Dwarven Love Ball on March 06, 2011, 12:20:51 pm
I'm using Stonesense Slate 2.2 and DF 0.31.16 and I'm pretty sure I haven't made any modifications to either program. Whenever I run Stonesense, it says "connecting to DF" and then I get the following error:
Cannot load image: creatures\beefmo_large_ocean.png
Stonesense crashes, and DF itself freezes and needs dfunstuck to become operational again. I've tried the following things:
- Genning a new world on DF
- Downloading the new memory.xml
- Changing the load order on creatures\index.txt and it seems it cannot load any of the creature sprite sheets, not just large ocean.
Post by: Rose on March 06, 2011, 12:21:58 pm
try changing the rendering mode.
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 06, 2011, 12:27:56 pm
Post by: Rose on March 06, 2011, 12:31:53 pm
that is, it's broken, and I haven't had any brainstorms how to fix it.
Post by: Cuddly Dwarven Love Ball on March 06, 2011, 12:47:40 pm
what videocard do you have?My videocard is an ancient pile of awfulness, unfortunately. I guess that's why.
try changing the rendering mode.
I had a go at changing the rendering mode and had more success with setting it to SOFTWARE although the program still doesn't fully function with the floor not loading and bits of Dwarves and animals not appearing. OPENGL refused to load and DIRECTX I am guessing is what I was on before, as it gave the same error.
Thank you for your quick response. :)
Post by: Truean on March 06, 2011, 01:44:06 pm
"When will it be compatible with 31.20?"
As soon as we get the offsets, which depends on when petrix updates DFHack.
Post by: therahedwig on March 06, 2011, 03:32:30 pm
That's 32 trees now :s
Post by: Dante on March 06, 2011, 04:16:08 pm
Poor Dark Tundra, I think bamboo is also a tree...Nope, it's a grass, irl and idf.
That's 32 trees now :s
Post by: dennislp3 on March 06, 2011, 04:48:29 pm
I will beat everyone else to the punch sarcastically:
"When will it be compatible with 31.20?"
As soon as we get the offsets, which depends on when petrix updates DFHack.
damn I was hoping to beat you to it!
Post by: thvaz on March 06, 2011, 04:49:34 pm
Poor Dark Tundra, I think bamboo is also a tree...Nope, it's a grass, irl and idf.
That's 32 trees now :s
Though in DF I think it would be better as a tree. In real life it is a grass but it impaires vision, movement and can be used to make furniture.
Post by: Dante on March 06, 2011, 06:41:34 pm
Maybe it would be best as a megabeast with a syndrome in DF. ;D
Post by: Girlinhat on March 06, 2011, 06:52:51 pm
Post by: therahedwig on March 06, 2011, 11:35:23 pm
Poor Dark Tundra, I think bamboo is also a tree...Nope, it's a grass, irl and idf.
That's 32 trees now :s
Damnit, you're right...
And it's not just bamboo, no it's three whole species...
I guess I'll be buzy with that then this week.
Also, I just realised something: Dark Tundra, you shouldn't have to redo the subterrenean trees, because cave can often be one z-level deep and still have tower-caps and what-not growing in them. And considering there's about 6 subterranean trees that ought to get some load of your back.
Post by: Rose on March 07, 2011, 01:10:43 am
I will beat everyone else to the punch sarcastically:
"When will it be compatible with 31.20?"
As soon as we get the offsets, which depends on when petrix updates DFHack.
pull it off the SVN now.
Post by: Truean on March 07, 2011, 03:26:51 am
I will beat everyone else to the punch sarcastically:
"When will it be compatible with 31.20?"
As soon as we get the offsets, which depends on when petrix updates DFHack.
pull it off the SVN now.
Lol, O it is hilarious that 31.21 came out so soon. You did get the reference right man? :P
Seeing as its 3:28 AM, SVN?
Post by: therahedwig on March 07, 2011, 04:25:26 am
I'll post screens once I've got rid of those nasty empty bamboo spots >:(
Post by: Rose on March 07, 2011, 04:27:54 am
I will beat everyone else to the punch sarcastically:
"When will it be compatible with 31.20?"
As soon as we get the offsets, which depends on when petrix updates DFHack.
pull it off the SVN now.
Lol, O it is hilarious that 31.21 came out so soon. You did get the reference right man? :P
Seeing as its 3:28 AM, SVN?
actually, while I didn't test it, there's a pretty good chance it works with 21 already.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 07, 2011, 05:51:32 am
...It's the leaves that are slowing things down. I'd be done already if they were all mushrooms, even if there were 50 of them.
Also, I just realised something: Dark Tundra, you shouldn't have to redo the subterrenean trees, because cave can often be one z-level deep and still have tower-caps and what-not growing in them. And considering there's about 6 subterranean trees that ought to get some load of your back.
also an update, I'm 18/31 through the list.
Post by: therahedwig on March 07, 2011, 06:29:21 am
I revived the screenshot thread btw.
Proof that the new Stonesense works with 31.21 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=48172.msg2051539#msg2051539)
Post by: infidelgkcn on March 07, 2011, 07:47:12 am
Post by: Rose on March 07, 2011, 08:19:43 am
Post by: Rushmik on March 07, 2011, 09:20:21 am
I sourced myself another monitor for the sole purpose of having Stonesense a turn of the head away when I play DF - love it!
Post by: Rose on March 07, 2011, 12:58:16 pm
you must use your Google-Fu do learn how to use the SVN link in the first post.
Post by: Truean on March 07, 2011, 01:06:31 pm
there is a release with the grasses, but that one you have to work for.
you must use your Google-Fu do learn how to use the SVN link in the first post.
Quote
teach us o matster? :)
Dude, sarcasm and snark are about 60% of this thread. :P I get it.
Post by: Rose on March 07, 2011, 01:09:31 pm
it's not stable enough to release it officially, so to compromise, we make you learn how to get it yourself.
Post by: BigD145 on March 07, 2011, 02:27:45 pm
Post by: Flaede on March 07, 2011, 06:26:17 pm
It's oriental kudzu.
um. you do know where kudzu is from, right?
Post by: Rushmik on March 07, 2011, 10:51:02 pm
there is a release with the grasses, but that one you have to work for.
you must use your Google-Fu do learn how to use the SVN link in the first post.
If it's any consolation I now feel very, very stupid. :)
For anyone like me who searched for a good hour to no avail, the most recent updates can be found on the Google Code page under Project Home > Updates (Not Downloads). The link is here: http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/updates/list
Damnit Google I had assumed your site structures always made sense.
Post by: therahedwig on March 08, 2011, 03:26:57 am
It's used by coders because... well it's handy to be able to get rid of all the file handling.
It won't be detailed how to use here, because people already can't be bothered to read previous pages to figure out that they need a new memory xml. And this is a slightly bit more complicate.(But again, it's basically dropbox in it's use, so go google it :) )
In the meantime.
(http://img.ie/4aa94.png)
Fighting off the question mark invasion one animal at a time.
(This ones a slightly, tiny bit different from the screen in the screenshot thread.)
Post by: Rose on March 08, 2011, 03:29:37 am
Post by: therahedwig on March 08, 2011, 03:41:43 am
In all honesty, I had some problem with this, because I didn't want the adult rabbit to be too big, but the original baby rabbit was smaller then the chicks. So I used the adult rabbit for the new baby rabbit sprite and redrew the adult rabbit.
/Proportion rant
Post by: Raging Mouse on March 08, 2011, 03:59:09 am
Post by: therahedwig on March 08, 2011, 06:27:36 pm
Also, we do have access to animation features. I just don't really feel like making a seperate animation for 20+ animals, and the one pixel difference might look a bit outdated on sprites this detailed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
There's a few missing patches where the missing sapling trees are growing, but there's also a couple of patches where the grass is missing and according to DF there's nothing there... (It lacks in the mountain biome, which has no trees... so perhaps it's a shrub issue anyway?)
Dark Tundra, my favorite tree here is the larch, because it's a lot more plastic(3d-ish) and lacks the overly strong high-light of the cedar and the pine here.
The problem for me is that the highlight on those trees is so bright and over a large area, that it de-contrasts the shadowy bits, taking away a lot of shape from the trees. Maybe it's better to avoid such strong difference in the future?
Post by: Necalli on March 08, 2011, 07:30:19 pm
The problem for me is that the highlight on those trees is so bright and over a large area, that it de-contrasts the shadowy bits, taking away a lot of shape from the trees. Maybe it's better to avoid such strong difference in the future?
I think to add more shape you may want to change the light direction a bit.
Like this to the right:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 08, 2011, 08:42:57 pm
EDIT:
is this cedar any better? If it is an improvement I may go though and similarly touch up the other trees.
Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 09, 2011, 09:48:57 am
Post by: Jeoshua on March 09, 2011, 11:09:46 am
Also, in Adventure mode, snow coverings dont' seem to be working correctly for "visible" squares. I get alot of black floor squares where there should be snow covered stuff. I'm playing a modded version but when I (l)ook at the square I see normal soil ground squares. But in Stonesense it looks like an unrevealed floor or something. The ones I can't see, however, are rendered just fine. Maybe since it's outside my visual range, but revealed, the snow is rendered but the problematic object is not.
Post by: Rose on March 09, 2011, 12:07:38 pm
Here's a good suggestion for you: Have different centering offsets for Adventure and Fortress mode. I've noticed that I have to readjust my offset every time I play Adventure mode, even tho it works just fine in Fortress.
Also, in Adventure mode, snow coverings dont' seem to be working correctly for "visible" squares. I get alot of black floor squares where there should be snow covered stuff. I'm playing a modded version but when I (l)ook at the square I see normal soil ground squares. But in Stonesense it looks like an unrevealed floor or something. The ones I can't see, however, are rendered just fine. Maybe since it's outside my visual range, but revealed, the snow is rendered but the problematic object is not.
To the first: this has been waiting for the ability to tell if it's adventure mode or not. now that the ability is there, I'll add it in.
To the second: I'm not entirely sure what causes this. a save could help.
Post by: Necalli on March 09, 2011, 01:15:28 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: dyze on March 09, 2011, 01:43:40 pm
In the meantime.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
i quite like the flower sprites in this one.. the entire screenshot looks way too busy though. its like there's a full flower bouquet on every grass tile.
to get a more natural appearance there needs to be a lot more tiles that has fewer flowers on them imo.
especially those large white ones completely dominate that particular screen
Post by: therahedwig on March 09, 2011, 03:10:47 pm
Other nuetral biomes are much more calm looking.
http://img.ie/4c8bc.png (http://img.ie/4c8bc.png)
I posted that screenshot in the screenshot thread, it shows the difference between biomes pretty well.(Which is usefull, because unlike what the grass implies, you can't farm in the mountain biome.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 09, 2011, 03:19:40 pm
Actually, that's only on the mountain biome. That's because the grasses in question, mountain heather, cloudberry(berries, not flowers), white avens and cotton grass(which doesn't have flower, but does have cotton puffs), are pretty much defined by their flowers.
Other nuetral biomes are much more calm looking.
http://img.ie/4c8bc.png (http://img.ie/4c8bc.png)
I posted that screenshot in the screenshot thread, it shows the difference between biomes pretty well.(Which is usefull, because unlike what the grass implies, you can't farm in the mountain biome.
It looks calmer, but it's still very visually busy.
Also the new trees are so big you can hardly see anything else.
Post by: thvaz on March 09, 2011, 03:25:31 pm
Actually, that's only on the mountain biome. That's because the grasses in question, mountain heather, cloudberry(berries, not flowers), white avens and cotton grass(which doesn't have flower, but does have cotton puffs), are pretty much defined by their flowers.
Other nuetral biomes are much more calm looking.
http://img.ie/4c8bc.png (http://img.ie/4c8bc.png)
I posted that screenshot in the screenshot thread, it shows the difference between biomes pretty well.(Which is usefull, because unlike what the grass implies, you can't farm in the mountain biome.
It looks calmer, but it's still very visually busy.
Also the new trees are so big you can hardly see anything else.
I liked it, and thought the trees were too small. I think it is a matter of taste.
Post by: Jeoshua on March 09, 2011, 03:43:17 pm
Post by: Andir on March 09, 2011, 05:36:36 pm
Post by: therahedwig on March 09, 2011, 05:49:22 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You know what, I'll maintain the grayscale one and will make sure all the files for the last option are just a edit of the index file away, so that people can choose their own grass, if it's too much of a problem.
Post by: Necalli on March 10, 2011, 03:55:20 am
Also the new trees are so big you can hardly see anything else.
It's a bit unusual for DF, having such big trees. But hey, that's what they are. Trees. Forests.
As for grasses, I believe this is an actual DF flora. And personally I like what I see here.
The thing is, without Stonesense imagining all this stuff is pain. In fact, all we're supposed to look at is a couple of ASCII tiles with labels. Even Toady, when he makes the game's vegetation grow, can't predict how it really looks like (though, I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what he is putting and where). That's why Stonesense often surprises us.
I'd say, if it's dandelions, make them look like dandelions. If it's a dead grass, it shouldn't be green and lively. And we'll see what comes out.
Post by: UristMcIrish on March 10, 2011, 10:19:16 am
I've downloaded stone sense from the FP annnd I downloaded the memory thing, I use .19 DF... But when I try to start stone sense it goes to "Connecting to DF" then just stops everything and fuggles...
Post by: Vargos on March 10, 2011, 11:34:21 am
Post by: Rose on March 10, 2011, 11:38:43 am
Post by: LoSboccacc on March 10, 2011, 12:51:47 pm
Find a tardis, go to 3-5 days into the future.
ah! a time commitment! :D :D
Post by: Andir on March 10, 2011, 12:58:03 pm
Unless I travel forward to disrupt this time-line! /brbFind a tardis, go to 3-5 days into the future.
ah! a time commitment! :D :D
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 10, 2011, 01:53:54 pm
[spoiler]
(http://img.ie/a5a4a.png)
I know I'm repeating myself, but the trees here are very hard to see, especially the willows. There really needs to be more distinction between the trees and the grass.
I'm not whining! I'm providing criticism! :)
Post by: Rose on March 10, 2011, 01:56:54 pm
those won't become official till they look satisfactory.
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 10, 2011, 02:55:36 pm
Well, to be honest, I don't expect myself doing more than two or three before losing interest - but I could use some little things to do to break the monotony of a diploma thesis writing. I'm doing it mostly for myself.
Anyway, here are rough and ugly mock-ups, and I have some questions.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
The question is: is this doable, or even wanted? Japa, I know you've said that even sizes are best but is there anything preventing odd sizes? And is there any specific format to prepare the trees in? I've noticed Dark Tundra's sprites are chopped into many small parts. What's the logic behind that? And is it possible to draw the whole tree first and chop it later?
EDIT: Also, if the forest is thick, not much of the ground would be seen. But I expect that a "hide treetops" command would be very easy to implement.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 10, 2011, 06:24:33 pm
Each block must fit in a cube the same as any other stonesense tile.
If the trees were all one picture, intersecting buildings would not be able to "cut off the branches that are in the way", treetops would appear to stick out at odd angles should a floor cover them, and all floor/wall tiles drawn after the tree would be drawn over the top.(I believe stonesense draws top to right, moving towards the bottom left, then stacking levels.)
The trunk is a single tile, all other parts fit around that. Though you can half fill a tile on either side so the tree is only 2 wide/deep, it would actually use 3 wide/deep tiles.
Trees should be in .png arrangement can be defined in xml.
I drew mine and chopped later. It's a lot more work to fill in the parts that are only seen as layers are chopped.
If it helps, here are the trees without leaves, if you want them as a starting point or guide, go for it.
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
I hope someone can get through all the trees, I focused so much on how they looked on their own that I forgot to check how it looked in stonesense. Now I'll probably have to start over with most of them.
EDIT:Oh, and on the hide treetops thing, I believe the treetops are cut off the same as any constuction once you move the view lower than the top. (another reason why they are sliced up into cube volumes)
Post by: therahedwig on March 10, 2011, 09:00:50 pm
I completely agree with you, which is why the next release won't have the trees, or the grass.
those won't become official till they look satisfactory.
That's okay...
Except the grass look satisfactory to me. Some people say they don't like the grass, but that's just honestly what it looks like in real-life.
So I don't know what I'm supossed to do now, do people want the multiple options, do people want the grass to be the same sprite over and over, do people just want the old grass?
I can't make 'satisfactory' grass if I can't get proper feedback.
Post by: Jeoshua on March 10, 2011, 09:11:02 pm
Keep using the grass I downloaded off the SVN ;)
Post by: Ethicalfive on March 10, 2011, 09:15:02 pm
Post by: Footkerchief on March 10, 2011, 09:48:25 pm
That's okay...
Except the grass look satisfactory to me. Some people say they don't like the grass, but that's just honestly what it looks like in real-life.
So I don't know what I'm supossed to do now, do people want the multiple options, do people want the grass to be the same sprite over and over, do people just want the old grass?
I can't make 'satisfactory' grass if I can't get proper feedback.
My feedback is that the grass and flowers would look better if each individual sprite was sparser. They're so dense that they blot out everything else.
Post by: Rose on March 10, 2011, 10:29:36 pm
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 11, 2011, 07:38:20 am
And here's a question to Japa: I understand the logic behind cutting the trees to cubes. My problem is that drawing it quadruples the work and doesn't sound much fun. I'd rather draw simple 2D sprites first and make cubes only when everything is done. So would it be possible to have the trees as simple 2D posters (ie. in one piece) and have them display in Stonesense - even if it means some glitches? Bear in mind I'm still doing it for fun, not for the official release, and people who wouldn't mind the glitches could download the pack themselves.
Or more specifically - have one 1x1x1 tile as the stump/trunk of the tree, and then everything else as one big (say 3x3x3) sprite on top of the trunk? (This way it would be possible not to show the treetops at ground level).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
It doesn't look that bad. The only problem is when there is a floor directly above the tree - see the right rampart. A simple solution would be using a 1x1x1 sprite in these cases (see the left rampart) or simply use the 1x1x1 trunk (not pictured).
I'm not requesting you to code anything more just for myself. I'm trying to make some trees as simply as possible and would like to know what's doable.
Post by: Rose on March 11, 2011, 07:43:10 am
stonesense can only load 32x32 sprites for the trees, but you can load more than one of them, and each layer can be shifted an arbitrary amount in the X and Y directions.
you see what I'm going at?
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 11, 2011, 07:50:19 am
I'll try experimenting with it. I'd still love to have proper 27 cube trees someday but ouch, the work!
Post by: Rose on March 11, 2011, 08:21:30 am
think of it as a bunch of squares.
Post by: Greiger on March 11, 2011, 08:32:49 am
sorry...
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 11, 2011, 08:43:10 am
nah, don't think of it as a block of cubes
think of it as a bunch of squares.
Yes, that's the way I understand it. I just chose wrong words. Thanks, anyway!
Now off to work!
Post by: Jeoshua on March 11, 2011, 12:05:30 pm
Post by: Rose on March 11, 2011, 12:11:44 pm
<plant bla bla bla>
<subsprite bla bla offsetx=32 offsety=0 />
<subsprite bla bla offsetx=-32 offsety=0 />
</plant>
Post by: Mrhnhrm on March 12, 2011, 01:47:23 am
I was wondering if someone has any idea about why Stonesense r950 wouldn't compile under Linux for me. Doing make fails spectacularly here:
Code: [Select]
[ 10%] Building CXX object CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/MapLoading.cpp.o
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:215: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:215: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:215: error: template argument 1 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:215: error: template argument 3 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:215: error: template argument 4 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp: In function void ReadCellToSegment(DFHack::Context&, WorldSegment&, int, int, int, uint32_t, uint32_t, uint32_t, uint32_t, uint16_t, std::vector<DFHack::t_building, std::allocator<DFHack::t_building> >*, std::vector<DFHack::t_construction, std::allocator<DFHack::t_construction> >*, std::vector<std::vector<short unsigned int, std::allocator<short unsigned int> >, std::allocator<std::vector<short unsigned int, std::allocator<short unsigned int> > > >*, std::vector<DFHack::t_feature, std::allocator<DFHack::t_feature> >*, int*, DFHack::Maps*):
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:496: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:496: error: expected ; before pc
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:497: error: pc was not declared in this scope
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:499: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:499: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:499: error: template argument 1 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:499: error: template argument 3 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:499: error: template argument 4 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:499: error: expected initializer before it
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:500: error: it was not declared in this scope
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:500: error: request for member find in * local_features, which is of non-class type int
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:501: error: request for member end in * local_features, which is of non-class type int
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp: In function WorldSegment* ReadMapSegment(DFHack::Context&, int, int, int, int, int, int):
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:589: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:599: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:608: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:632: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:645: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:729: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:759: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:777: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:777: error: planecoord is not a member of DFHack
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:777: error: template argument 1 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:777: error: template argument 3 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:777: error: template argument 4 is invalid
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:777: error: invalid type in declaration before ; token
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:778: error: no matching function for call to DFHack::Maps::ReadLocalFeatures(int&)
/usr/include/dfhack/modules/Maps.h:416: note: candidates are: bool DFHack::Maps::ReadLocalFeatures(std::map<DFHack::DFCoord, std::vector<DFHack::t_feature*, std::allocator<DFHack::t_feature*> >, std::less<DFHack::DFCoord>, std::allocator<std::pair<const DFHack::DFCoord, std::vector<DFHack::t_feature*, std::allocator<DFHack::t_feature*> > > > >&)
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp: In function bool ConnectDFAPI(DFHack::Context*):
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:1090: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp: In function void FollowCurrentDFWindow():
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:1174: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp: In function void FollowCurrentDFCenter():
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:1206: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp: In function void reloadDisplayedSegment():
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:1295: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
/home/mrhn/Games/dwarf fortress/stonesense/MapLoading.cpp:1296: warning: deprecated conversion from string constant to char*
make[2]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/MapLoading.cpp.o] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
I've downloaded DFHack sources yesterday and installed them.I'd appreciate some pointers on where to go from here.
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2011, 01:52:41 am
also, they have build Stonesense on linux while I haven't.
Post by: Caldfir on March 12, 2011, 04:09:54 am
Unrelated: The compiler hates me. I reciprocate.
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2011, 04:12:31 am
Post by: Mrhnhrm on March 12, 2011, 05:21:35 am
probably a better idea to get help from the dfhack guys, since it looks like that's the problem.Apparently, peterix doesn't feel like assuming responsibility for the problem in question. He implies that some modifications to Stonesense are in order: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.msg2067439#msg2067439
also, they have build Stonesense on linux while I haven't.
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2011, 05:23:31 am
Post by: gu1dry on March 12, 2011, 01:42:20 pm
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2011, 01:45:03 pm
till it's out, only bugfixes.
till then, you can get a few days older version of DFhack.
Post by: gu1dry on March 13, 2011, 07:31:32 pm
Post by: Rose on March 13, 2011, 07:35:34 pm
Post by: gu1dry on March 13, 2011, 08:18:01 pm
Post by: Rose on March 13, 2011, 08:21:11 pm
that said, now that I know DFhack is working with Mingw again, I can get that working again.
Post by: gu1dry on March 13, 2011, 08:22:36 pm
Post by: Rose on March 13, 2011, 08:24:05 pm
you would have to convert the 2005 project file.
Post by: gu1dry on March 13, 2011, 08:30:40 pm
Post by: Rose on March 13, 2011, 08:33:57 pm
Post by: gu1dry on March 13, 2011, 08:35:15 pm
Edit: It fails to build :/
Post by: RTiger on March 14, 2011, 09:08:29 am
I get the message C++ runtime error, and I downloaded both files in the OP, neither helped.
Post by: jonask84 on March 15, 2011, 08:15:24 pm
Just wanted to let you know that we've uploaded the official 2.3 release, which you can grab Right Here (http://stonesense.googlecode.com/files/Stonesense_Slate_2.3.zip).
Please let us know if you find any issues
- Jonas
Post by: Greiger on March 15, 2011, 08:43:50 pm
After Japa said there would be a new version soon I was refreshing this page almost as often as the main download page for DF!
Lesse...issues. Custom workshops and other unknowns like siege engines flash for some reason, but I haven't found anything that actually bothers me at all.
Post by: punkibastardo on March 16, 2011, 12:37:31 pm
Been waiting impatiently for the next release, You rock! :D
Post by: thvaz on March 17, 2011, 04:10:10 pm
Post by: Granite on March 19, 2011, 03:28:48 am
Post by: Greiger on March 19, 2011, 09:49:38 am
I got the error: "Cannot Load Fond: DejaVuSans.ttf " I did install the font and the error still occurs. Anyone did have the same problem and knows a solution?
I had that issue when I was trying to halfass myself an early release by downloading the .exe by itself off the git. I just downloaded their version of DejaVuSans.ttf off the git and overwrote mine and it worked. (er well, didn't exactly "work" per say, but that wasn't the issue anymore)
Post by: Siquo on March 19, 2011, 10:22:27 am
Post by: cousac on March 19, 2011, 07:12:45 pm
the error message is as follows:
Code: [Select]
cousac@linux-zwvc:~/stonesense/build> sudo make
Linking CXX executable ../stonesense
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/MapLoading.cpp.o: In function `FollowCurrentDFWindow()':
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xa4a2): undefined reference to `DFHack::Context::getPosition()'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xa4f4): undefined reference to `DFHack::Position::getWindowSize(int&, int&)'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xa523): undefined reference to `DFHack::Position::getViewCoords(int&, int&, int&)'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/MapLoading.cpp.o: In function `FollowCurrentDFCenter()':
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xa6a0): undefined reference to `DFHack::Context::getPosition()'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xa6c0): undefined reference to `DFHack::Position::getWindowSize(int&, int&)'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0xa6dd): undefined reference to `DFHack::Position::getViewCoords(int&, int&, int&)'
CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/MapLoading.cpp.o: In function `ReadMapSegment(DFHack::Context&, int, int, int, int, int, int)':
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0x13b45): undefined reference to `DFHack::Context::getPosition()'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0x13dbf): undefined reference to `DFHack::Position::getCursorCoords(int&, int&, int&)'
MapLoading.cpp:(.text+0x13e5e): undefined reference to `DFHack::Maps::ReadLocalFeatures(std::map<DFHack::planecoord, std::vector<DFHack::t_feature*, std::allocator<DFHack::t_feature*> >, std::less<DFHack::planecoord>, std::allocator<std::pair<DFHack::planecoord const, std::vector<DFHack::t_feature*, std::allocator<DFHack::t_feature*> > > > >&)'
collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
make[2]: *** [../stonesense] Error 1
make[1]: *** [CMakeFiles/stonesense.dir/all] Error 2
make: *** [all] Error 2
Where did I go wrong?
Post by: peterix on March 19, 2011, 08:10:17 pm
i am running OS: openSUSE 11.3 and have some difficulty compiling.Using dfhack from git HEAD. It's nothing even close to a stable release :) I'm actively working on it, so things break all the time. And it can diverge from what stonesense thinks it looks like.
...
Where did I go wrong?
I just fixed one problem with the dfhack build system not installing header files. And stonesense needs some fixing to work with dfhack HEAD.
Post by: cousac on March 19, 2011, 08:28:22 pm
i am running OS: openSUSE 11.3 and have some difficulty compiling.Using dfhack from git HEAD. It's nothing even close to a stable release :) I'm actively working on it, so things break all the time. And it can diverge from what stonesense thinks it looks like.
...
Where did I go wrong?
I just fixed one problem with the dfhack build system not installing header files. And stonesense needs some fixing to work with dfhack HEAD.
good to know i guess. what can i do in the meantime? or is there no temporary solution?
I am capable of waiting, no worries :)
Forza, Mr. Peterix!!!
Post by: Ethicalfive on March 20, 2011, 07:39:23 am
I have a couple questions.
Is there a way to enable the new grass graphics or do I need to d/l extra files from the repository?
Is there a way for me to show designated tiles? e.g. highlighted for digging, stair etc? (wanted to rig autohotkeys to pass keys from stonesense to DF without having to look at DF but without designations it'd be hard to mark designations if I cant see them till they are built)
Post by: nil on March 20, 2011, 05:47:43 pm
I don't know where the application event log is, and generally feel like I'm missing something simple.
Post by: TurnpikeLad on March 21, 2011, 02:42:26 pm
"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."
Are there any dlls I can copy somewhere in my system directory that might let me run the program? Or should I change some aspect of the Stonesense files themselves?
Post by: Blankz0rz on March 25, 2011, 05:44:28 pm
The error log is spitting out:
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable process
I'm currently running Windows 7 and I have Stonesense 2.3 and Dwarf Fortress 31.21.
Any advice on how to fix this issue?
Post by: Blankz0rz on March 25, 2011, 05:56:33 pm
Thanks,
Post by: Dark_Tundra on March 25, 2011, 10:32:43 pm
Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: XML (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sarvesh Mossbeard on March 25, 2011, 11:07:06 pm
Also wyrms. Kinda look like this.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Jeoshua on March 25, 2011, 11:23:42 pm
Sickly looking thing, too.
Post by: Sarvesh Mossbeard on March 25, 2011, 11:33:34 pm
Post by: Jeoshua on March 25, 2011, 11:36:26 pm
Why don't the packs that add in new creatures try to add in stonesense sprites? Osmen and Nords, for example, from Genesis.
Post by: Toklian on March 26, 2011, 06:17:38 am
Hey, I'm trying to get the latest version of stonesense to run on a Windows XP sp3 machine and I get this error message:The same problem, with the only difference that I have Windows XP sp2. But no problem running at work under Win7 (x86_redist mentioned in the head of the topic is installed in both cases).
"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."
Are there any dlls I can copy somewhere in my system directory that might let me run the program? Or should I change some aspect of the Stonesense files themselves?
Post by: punkibastardo on March 26, 2011, 07:17:39 am
A new revision of my trees, the only thing more I can do after this is completely redraw the foliage.Spoiler: image (click to show/hide)
They look awesome in-game!, thank you very much!
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2011, 07:51:04 am
Post by: Greiger on March 26, 2011, 07:35:41 pm
Did I totally preempt the "When will this be ready for .23" question?
peterix is some kind of speed memory hacker. (Hmm...if somebody's name doesn't start with a capital letter, but is at the start of a sentence does it get a starting capital?)
Post by: TurnpikeLad on March 26, 2011, 10:18:55 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 26, 2011, 10:22:12 pm
Of course to save the stonesense folks trouble I'll just go ahead and say doing that isn't an official "stonesense works with .23" or anything since there may be some behind the scenes optimizations or bugchecks they may need to do between DF versions, but it worked when I tried it. So I figured I would mention it.
Post by: Jeoshua on March 26, 2011, 10:23:03 pm
Pretty trees. Must have.
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2011, 10:53:16 pm
Post by: thvaz on March 27, 2011, 06:06:36 am
I got the error: "Cannot Load Fond: DejaVuSans.ttf " I did install the font and the error still occurs. Anyone did have the same problem and knows a solution?
I had that issue when I was trying to halfass myself an early release by downloading the .exe by itself off the git. I just downloaded their version of DejaVuSans.ttf off the git and overwrote mine and it worked. (er well, didn't exactly "work" per say, but that wasn't the issue anymore)
Just rewriting the file didn't worked. Anyone can help me?
Post by: AO on March 28, 2011, 07:36:01 pm
I was somewhat annoyed by that effect with windows, you know, they can be constructed everywhere, but they have only two images, so I have to finish intersections:
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24499639/DF.SS.window.cross-sections.preview.png) (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4067)
At first I tried variants with right angles, but they were too... messy. I couldn't solve that.
And more doors. Just for other materials. And individual sprites for floodgates.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24499639/DF.SS.DoorsAndFloodgates.png) (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4066)
Floodgate look like something between a door and a section of wall only for clarification, because it's not a door. I couldn't divise something more floodgate-like in one square with current mechanics. :-\
And a little tweak of handles for double doors.
By the way, can I report here a bunch of small xml-issues? I couldn't find a better place to do it.
- While the multitile trees were not included in the main release.
In trees.xml fungiwood is assigned to the same sprite with tower-cap (there are identical sprites in trees.png at different cells). Can fungiwood be changed to 30th sprite? It's not in use now. - buildings/include/wsBenches.xml
In line 41 must be sprite number 24 (GreenGlass bench), not 23 (Clear/CrystalGlass bench). - buildings/Table.xml
- buildings/include/wsTub.xml
- buildings/include/wsFPTub.xml
Lack of metal variants, although there are proper sprites. I've pasted condition for metallic from buildings/include/wsFurnace.xml and set appropriate sprite, works fine for me.
Post by: Rose on March 28, 2011, 08:41:10 pm
these are wonderful and are going in.
Post by: Footkerchief on March 28, 2011, 08:49:31 pm
thank you thank you thank you.
these are wonderful and are going in.
They do look great, but...
I'm not an artist, just copypasted some from existing ones.
Were they made for Stonesense or for a different project?
Post by: Rose on March 28, 2011, 08:57:33 pm
Post by: TacKY on March 28, 2011, 11:52:12 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 29, 2011, 12:03:14 am
If yer really feeling adventurous I think one of the other utilities someplace managed to hack together a working memory.xml (the file stonesense needs updated to fix the problem) but doing that is kinda tricky even when you know what yer doing.
EDIT: Judging from how comparably easy a new offset set was hacked together though it probably won't be more than a day before you can get a working memory.xml file from the DFHack thread. Once you have that you just overwrite the one in stonesense with it.
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2011, 12:06:23 am
try that, then ask questions.
Post by: HaDeZs on March 29, 2011, 08:21:18 am
Post by: thvaz on March 29, 2011, 02:02:44 pm
in the first post, there's a big orange 'try this if it doesn't work' section.
try that, then ask questions.
I did try everything, but I keep getting "Cannot Load Font: DejaVuSans.ttf" even though the font is in the folder and installed. Stonesense 2.2 used to work fine here. May you help me?
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2011, 02:08:03 pm
Post by: thvaz on March 29, 2011, 02:16:49 pm
It's very strange. It will load up the map, but will only show it in the task bar. I can't see its window.
Tried 2.2, it works fine (though it won't work with the nem memory.xml)
edit: Ok, finally found it. It was opening off-screen. Very weird.
Post by: Minnakht on March 30, 2011, 11:43:02 am
I've got 31.24, what should I do?
Post by: Rose on March 30, 2011, 09:25:12 pm
Post by: belannaer on March 31, 2011, 11:00:48 am
Post by: Fayrik on March 31, 2011, 04:26:25 pm
Stonesense, without that, just isn't the stonesense I know and love.
(Also, I'm noticing a few other things. Anyone else now getting bad graphics updates when moving the camera position? Looks like the world is either moving faster than the camera or slower than the camera!)
Post by: Rose on March 31, 2011, 07:34:15 pm
we figured there's no reason to limit the camera speed to the update speed.
Post by: Minnakht on April 01, 2011, 11:46:31 am
read the first post in the thread.
Done. I also messed with the memory file after checking if a freshly downloaded copy of 2.3 works. Neither did.
Any further hints?
Post by: Rose on April 01, 2011, 11:48:08 am
Post by: Minnakht on April 01, 2011, 12:36:51 pm
...also, back in 31.18 and 2.2, I also had to update the memory file, and it worked, but Stonesense didn't show any creatures.
Post by: Rose on April 01, 2011, 12:38:43 pm
Post by: Kogut on April 02, 2011, 06:40:36 am
Post by: Minnakht on April 02, 2011, 04:12:39 pm
Went to DFhack folder, copied memory.xml
Pasted memory.xml into Stonesense folder, overwriting the one that was there
Opened DF at all
Loaded a world
Tried to run Stonesense...
Quote
Error
<file location of the executable>
The application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect. Please see the application event log for more detail.
OK
what do
Post by: Taricus on April 02, 2011, 05:21:07 pm
Any updates on the new grass though?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 02, 2011, 07:46:56 pm
Thanks for this :DI've been toying with the grasses a little.
Any updates on the new grass though?
I halved the scale of therahedwig's grass and doubled the tiling in the xml. Unfortunately, the 4 subtiles on a tile proper are identical due to the way variations work.
I haven't sat down to redraw the grasses to fit in proper tiles yet, so most of the grass looks a bit suspiciously square.
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
I may have to work out a blending system to soften the tile edges too (oh the horror).
(hmm... this post seems so arrogant with all the "I"'s...)
Post by: Rose on April 02, 2011, 08:32:36 pm
stonesense will be supporting engravings, but we don't have any sprites. we need engraving sprites.
This will be a sprite that's overlayed on top of either the walls or floors that are engraved. there are 256 possible characters that can be on the engravings, and while not all of them are naturally occurring, they are all technically possible.
So what we need are three sets of engravings, one for floor engravings, and one for each visible side of the wall. if you can do partial transparencies, then that's great, otherwise, try to use as few shades of grey as possible.
any volunteers?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 02, 2011, 10:20:41 pm
...
any volunteers?
Ooh! Here! Pick me!
Edit:Also, where can I find a list?
Post by: Rose on April 02, 2011, 10:50:22 pm
Spoiler: List (click to show/hide)
engravings in stonesense are chosen by the displayed tile in DF.
here's a sample of the first 60 of them:
Spoiler: Sample (click to show/hide)
these are just for testing, though. proper ones would look more like this:
Spoiler: Engraved! (click to show/hide)
these are the ones that go on the floor. there also needs to be two more sets, one for each visible side of the wall.
Post by: Taricus on April 02, 2011, 10:51:40 pm
Post by: Rose on April 02, 2011, 10:54:26 pm
Would it just be easier to do a generic engraved tile?
wha...?
why would we do that?
Post by: Taricus on April 02, 2011, 10:56:00 pm
Post by: Greiger on April 02, 2011, 11:12:15 pm
Sure you could just place a 4 adamantine disks 4 silver spiked balls and 2 adamantine axe blades in a trap tile and call it a day. But it is so much more dwarven to make a 200 z-level pitfall trap into a magma pool 5 z-levels deep with 10 steel spikes on the bottom.
...Plus it can't be THAT hard to take a font and run it through the MSpaint skew can it?
Post by: Rose on April 02, 2011, 11:17:57 pm
...Plus it can't be THAT hard to take a font and run it through the MSpaint skew can it?
That's exactly what I'm doing right now, but hand-drawn is always better.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on April 03, 2011, 04:20:28 am
Spoiler: Image (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ethicalfive on April 03, 2011, 05:08:30 am
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2011, 05:19:40 am
I'll look into it.
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2011, 05:46:38 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Deon on April 03, 2011, 06:25:00 am
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2011, 06:30:09 am
It gets better. lower quality engravings are less distinct.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
mind you, stonesense can only tell what character is displayed by DF, not the actual engraving itself.
Post by: Deon on April 03, 2011, 06:52:02 am
Post by: agatharchides on April 03, 2011, 10:15:15 am
Hey, I'm trying to get the latest version of stonesense to run on a Windows XP sp3 machine and I get this error message:I am having the same problem. I didn't see a solution posted here, did anyone ever find one?
"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."
Are there any dlls I can copy somewhere in my system directory that might let me run the program? Or should I change some aspect of the Stonesense files themselves?
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2011, 10:17:05 am
If stuff's not workingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: agatharchides on April 03, 2011, 10:50:14 am
EDIT: Mcbeers file seemed to work better than the one from the Microsoft website for some reason. You might want to change the 2.1 only sign there, it is rather calculated to confuse if you don't know what you are about. Thank for your time, my good sir/ma'am.
Post by: Dante on April 03, 2011, 06:34:35 pm
Could get a bit cluttered in large, completely-engraved forts, though, so are they toggleable on/off in Stonesense? Better yet, is it possible to read which ones are toggled to be displayed within DF, and only display those ones as symbols?
Post by: Ethicalfive on April 04, 2011, 12:28:23 am
that's actually possible to do. come to think of it, I'm not sure exactly why it hasn't been done...Cool! I look forward to that addition :D
I'll look into it.
Wow, those engravings are darn fancy.Or toggled to a generic engraved pattern? The symbols are awesome! The recent work on grasses and engravings have added a whole new dimension to stonesense, congrats on the hard work!
Could get a bit cluttered in large, completely-engraved forts, though, so are they toggleable on/off in Stonesense? Better yet, is it possible to read which ones are toggled to be displayed within DF, and only display those ones as symbols?
Post by: SirAaronIII on April 04, 2011, 02:07:35 am
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2011, 02:11:12 am
Post by: wuphonsreach on April 06, 2011, 04:00:27 pm
Hey, I'm trying to get the latest version of stonesense to run on a Windows XP sp3 machine and I get this error message:The same problem, with the only difference that I have Windows XP sp2. But no problem running at work under Win7 (x86_redist mentioned in the head of the topic is installed in both cases).
"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."
Are there any dlls I can copy somewhere in my system directory that might let me run the program? Or should I change some aspect of the Stonesense files themselves?
Also getting this error with Stonesense_Slate_2.3 on Windows XP SP3. Is Stonesense no longer compatible with Windows XP? (The older 2.2 worked fine on XP.)
Post by: Rose on April 06, 2011, 07:24:15 pm
we used a different, more compatible, compiler in 2.2, but that wasn't working for 2.3, so 2.3 had the same compiler as 2.1
Post by: PrimusRibbus on April 07, 2011, 01:26:13 am
Downloading and installing McBeer's unofficial vcredist_x86.zip (found under the "If stuff's not working spoiler" in the OP) fixed everything for me. Just wanted to post this here in case anyone was having a similar problem (I didn't have any luck finding someone with the same problem via forum or Google searches).
Post by: Rose on April 07, 2011, 01:48:55 am
Post by: Graebeard on April 07, 2011, 04:57:28 pm
It's a very interesting approach to creating non-repeatability and perceived randomness. Makes me want to muck around a bit myself.
Post by: Rose on April 07, 2011, 10:01:37 pm
each tile has a random seed.
each layer in the tile can have a given number of variations.
the sprite chosen is given by taking the remainder from seed/variations.
so if you want to have something that never tiles, just have a bottom sprite with only two or three variations, and a top layer with 5 or 7
viola, nothing's repeated.
Post by: monkeyfetus on April 10, 2011, 08:33:13 pm
I noticed that when I moved to an area that didn't have any tail-wagging dogs or those weird dancing soap-bubbles (flowers?) that appear on 80% of soil/wet stone tiles, Stonesense's CPU usage fell from 60% to 30%, which leads me to believe that the animations are primarily responsible for the atrocious performance. Is there a way to disable the animations? They're probably not helping my performance, and the sea of bouncing flowers is incredibly distracting.
Post by: Kogut on April 10, 2011, 11:01:47 pm
Code: (init.txt) [Select]
Amount of time, in milliseconds, before the animation swaps to the next frame.
Now independant of map refresh.
[ANIMATION_RATE:150000]And anyway performance in atrocious.
Post by: Rose on April 10, 2011, 11:05:23 pm
Me.
I'm a terrible programmer that doesn't know what he's doing and is just monkeying around.
Post by: Siquo on April 11, 2011, 10:45:13 am
I'm a terrible programmer that doesn't know what he's doing and is just monkeying around.We know, but forgive you because you look cool, and blame it on the lack of oxygen in your atmosphere.
Post by: Rose on April 11, 2011, 10:51:33 am
I'm a terrible programmer that doesn't know what he's doing and is just monkeying around.We know, but forgive you because you look cool, and blame it on the lack of oxygen in your atmosphere.
...
I'm at sea level.
Post by: Andir on April 11, 2011, 10:58:39 am
Post by: devek on April 11, 2011, 11:43:19 am
pretty much all the speed issues we're experiencing can be blamed on one thing.
Me.
I'm a terrible programmer that doesn't know what he's doing and is just monkeying around.
Well, I will help you out! I have never looked at the stonesense source and have no idea how it works so I am 100% qualified to tell you the problem is pathfinding. You should like multi-thread stonesense's pathfinding for massive fps gain!
Post by: Siquo on April 11, 2011, 04:41:42 pm
I'm at sea level.Exactly my point. I'm a few yards below that, and unless you have dykes, there's isn't much oxygen in there. :D
Post by: DwarvesH on April 12, 2011, 05:57:25 am
This will give me the chance to update to new versions. I am still using Stonesense 2.1 :).
Post by: Caldfir on April 13, 2011, 02:42:30 pm
Post by: Rumrusher on April 14, 2011, 11:14:20 pm
Post by: Seriyu on April 20, 2011, 05:38:21 pm
Post by: Jeoshua on April 20, 2011, 05:43:20 pm
DFHack makes life so much easier, doesn't it?
Post by: Seriyu on April 20, 2011, 05:50:35 pm
Thanks.
Post by: Truean on April 21, 2011, 07:12:02 am
If I just plug in the memory file from the latest DFhack will it (more or less) work with the newest version of dwarf fortress?
"Some assembly required.":P
Post by: LordBistian on April 25, 2011, 07:00:22 am
(http://gyazo.com/5b1eefb4b70ed91008b6805f22c9737a.png)
Left is how it looks currently.
Right is how it should look.
Post by: Star Weaver on April 25, 2011, 10:15:32 am
Poking around with depends I found that the allegro libs wanted some version of the VC 2005 redist that none of the redist downloads or other files I had would satisfy them. So I rebuil them in 2008 with static linking :P
That worked, but now I'm getting some kind of DFhack related error.
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: memory object not set: type offset key /string/MSVC/buffer
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: memory object not set: type offset key /string/MSVC/buffer
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: memory object not set: type offset key /string/MSVC/buffer
...
...
...
This is with the newer memory.xml, fwiw.
I also get about the same message when I try to run DFUNSTUCK from StoneSense's directory. The current DFhack version works fine, but dropping the current (200kb smaller and apparently dynamically linked to VC 2010?) DFHack.dll causes (somewhat expectable) unknown entry point errors.
Of course, if I can track down a lib for the newer DFhack I can probably just build SVN stonesense around it, but I was hoping for a drop in fix for people having problems now :\.
Post by: Jeoshua on April 25, 2011, 12:37:13 pm
Reguardless, are you using a 64 bit version of either the OS or the libraries?
Post by: Star Weaver on April 25, 2011, 04:08:12 pm
Before I plopped in the freshly-minted new allegro (5.0.0) DLLs, I was getting three SideBySide notice in my system event log:
Code: [Select]
Dependent Assembly Microsoft.VC80.CRT could not be found and Last Error was The referenced assembly is not installed on your system.
...
Resolve Partial Assembly failed for Microsoft.VC80.CRT. Reference error message: The referenced assembly is not installed on your system.
...
Generate Activation Context failed for c:\weaver\inbox\stonesense-read-only\ALLEGRO-5.0.DLL. Reference error message: The operation completed successfully.
Plus some message related to the last on in the launch output in VS08.
After putting the new DLLs in, the SxS errors stop happening and stonesense loads, but gets stuck at connecting to DF, apparently spitting those string/msvc/buffer complaints into the stonesense log every time it tries.
Sorry about the lack of clarity in the first post :)
Post by: Carcanken on May 02, 2011, 02:15:46 pm
Post by: Siquo on May 02, 2011, 02:24:18 pm
Is there a way that stonesense will work for 0.31.25?See OP.
Post by: Carcanken on May 02, 2011, 02:29:32 pm
Is there a way that stonesense will work for 0.31.25?See OP.
Okay. I read that it is compatible for all 31.xx or 2010 DF versions, however, I cant run it. For some reason its just stuck on the loading screen when I start it.
Post by: Siquo on May 02, 2011, 02:33:11 pm
Post by: Carcanken on May 03, 2011, 04:05:48 pm
Did you download and install the new xml for DFhack under the orange "if things are not working" part?
Okay, I did that, its still not working. The error thing is similar to: "Windows has found a problem and must now close the program"
Post by: Halnoth on May 03, 2011, 09:18:02 pm
1. I know it says full ss is broken and after reading the thread it appears Japa disabled it. Is it possible to reenable it on my end and deal with any bugs? It is kind of hard to see the scope of a project without a zoom out function and without a full ss.
2. Even if full ss worked will stonesense render 230 z levels in said screen shot or would I have to split the picture?
3. If full ss remains broken would it be possible to implement a zoom out feature so it would be possible to see the entire fort and not just the little bit that is shown?
Thanks
Post by: Truean on May 10, 2011, 11:23:09 am
Respectfully,
Truean
Post by: Rose on May 10, 2011, 11:48:38 am
If stuff's not workingSpoiler (click to show/hide)
"This is a direct link to the latest version"
that's pretty clear.
Post by: Siquo on May 11, 2011, 06:14:14 am
Post by: AO on May 12, 2011, 03:25:01 pm
Maybe just update the topictitle and the xml in the zip?...and add to the first post refusal to turn SS into a GUI. ::)
Post by: Truean on May 12, 2011, 03:54:03 pm
Maybe just update the topictitle and the xml in the zip?...and add to the first post refusal to turn SS into a GUI. ::)
Seconded.
"GUI: Stonesense does not wish to have a graphic user interface, because we feel that would step on Toady's Toes. We respectful decline to do so, especially to the Toad himself."
Post by: Rose on May 12, 2011, 08:38:45 pm
Post by: devek on May 12, 2011, 08:47:32 pm
Post by: Truean on May 13, 2011, 05:35:47 am
Actually, the reason is "There's only one person doing anything with stonesense, and he doesn't need it to be a GUI."
That and it would be really difficult to turn stonesense into a GUI. It is a great project, but if you wanted to make a GUI you would be better off starting from scratch.
I really wish you were right.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76183.msg1928969#msg1928969
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOD-LHLUQIo
Tell me that isn't stonesense and DF?
Post by: devek on May 13, 2011, 05:49:57 am
Either way, IDK. I kind of have my own UI for DF project in the works, and I know I will never open source it for this very reason. I don't mind if someone rips me off, but if someone rips off Toady that pisses me off.
Post by: Siquo on May 13, 2011, 06:09:34 am
Tell me that isn't stonesense and DF?That isn't stonesense and DF.
Post by: DwarvesH on May 13, 2011, 06:40:23 am
Metaphorically speaking, I can see how someone could interpret it as such. But it is not.Tell me that isn't stonesense and DF?That isn't stonesense and DF.
Here is a newer video that starts to use other graphics. The highlight is the new trees, but because the rest of plants are still from Stonesense, and so is the grass, it still looks like Stonesense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqOQiQ2u73g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqOQiQ2u73g)
What do you think? Does it start to look different?
And speaking of Stonesense, I tried to compile it and I couldn't do it. In Allegro headers, I got error regarding the compilers not understanding what a "__cdecl" is. I did not have time to investigate further.
Could someone post some compilation instructions using Visual Studio Express (the free one from 2010) and Vista SDK (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=ff6467e6-5bba-4bf5-b562-9199be864d29&displaylang=en (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=ff6467e6-5bba-4bf5-b562-9199be864d29&displaylang=en)). It has been a few years since I used Visual Studio, and I am quite rusty at solving problems with the build process.
Post by: Rose on May 13, 2011, 11:32:33 am
As for allegro, that's more iffy.
Post by: Truean on May 13, 2011, 01:06:20 pm
Tell me that isn't stonesense and DF?That isn't stonesense and DF.
I literally asked for this :)
Metaphorically speaking, I can see how someone could interpret it as such. But it is not.Tell me that isn't stonesense and DF?That isn't stonesense and DF.
Here is a newer video that starts to use other graphics. The highlight is the new trees, but because the rest of plants are still from Stonesense, and so is the grass, it still looks like Stonesense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqOQiQ2u73g (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqOQiQ2u73g)
What do you think? Does it start to look different?
And speaking of Stonesense, I tried to compile it and I couldn't do it. In Allegro headers, I got error regarding the compilers not understanding what a "__cdecl" is. I did not have time to investigate further.
Could someone post some compilation instructions using Visual Studio Express (the free one from 2010) and Vista SDK (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=ff6467e6-5bba-4bf5-b562-9199be864d29&displaylang=en (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/en/details.aspx?familyid=ff6467e6-5bba-4bf5-b562-9199be864d29&displaylang=en)). It has been a few years since I used Visual Studio, and I am quite rusty at solving problems with the build process.
Let me just save everyone some time, be about as polite as I'm gonna get about this and say I don't think you can convince me.
Post by: DwarvesH on May 14, 2011, 02:48:16 am
main instruction I can give with VS, is use the project files that are given, not Cmake.Could you tell me the exact versions of the tools you use. Visual Studio Express 2010 imports and converts the provided project files. Maybe it messes up something.
As for allegro, that's more iffy.
Post by: Rose on May 14, 2011, 04:40:19 am
Post by: Halnoth on May 14, 2011, 04:53:30 am
Let me just save everyone some time, be about as polite as I'm gonna get about this and say I don't think you can convince me.
lol thats funny since he linked you to his youtube channel which shows him testing the gui he is developing which you linked.
Post by: Truean on May 14, 2011, 06:04:45 pm
Let me just save everyone some time, be about as polite as I'm gonna get about this and say I don't think you can convince me.
lol thats funny since he linked you to his youtube channel which shows him testing the gui he is developing which you linked.
That's funny cause there's a few points you're missing, which I made:
a.) A proof of concept that a stonesense like GUI could be technically possible.
b.) There are a whole thread full of people I linked to who felt like I did.
c.) The youtube link and thread I gave are far older than his.
He even states, "Here is a newer video that starts to use other graphics. The highlight is the new trees, but because the rest of plants are still from Stonesense, and so is the grass, it still looks like Stonesense."
This openly states he used stonesense sprites. <--- At some point it was Stonesense and therefore DF.
Now if you're quite done trying to dredge up an issue that will not be productive at all....
Post by: DrKillPatient on May 14, 2011, 09:32:29 pm
Post by: Ralinth on May 16, 2011, 09:11:36 am
Post by: peterix on May 16, 2011, 10:02:50 am
Hrm, I see in the 'if stuff's not working' portion, an Ubuntu fix. Can this work with Linux? I don't see a specific Linux version or a source to build from, though...Yes. It can be built using CMake, if you install DFHack and allegro 5 first. Note that DFHack and stonesense can get out of sync. Send me a PM if you run into any problems. Or visit the #dfhack irc channel on freenode.
Post by: Truean on May 16, 2011, 10:34:48 am
So I downloaded this, it didnt work. I did the fix it says in the "if this dosnt work" section, it dosnt work. Every time I have tried to run it I get an error that says "application not configured correctly, try reinstalling", so I download again and it still dosnt work. Am I just not meant to ever get to use this? Any help would be appreciated.
Have you right clicked and saved the xml file in stonesense's folder, replacing the old one? Not as readily apparent as you'd think.
Post by: AO on May 17, 2011, 10:23:03 pm
- buildings/VerticalBars.png & buildings/VerticalBars.xml - colors of building material.
- Fluids/Fluids.xml - set up appropriate sprites for truncated water and magma.
- creatures/caravan_animals.xml - geese => goose
- buildings/HorizontalAxle.xml - postfix "st" was lost in conditions.
- Looking through the thread from the beginning, I found a couple of tiles that can be added to creatures.png:Almost all by Deon, exсept Beefmo's dragon. And some issues with cropping and positioning was fixed (ogre is still cropped from the bottom, he is too big). Bat is included with beefmo_subterranean now, so here was dublicate.Spoiler: creatures.png (click to show/hide)
- creatures/wildlife.xml - RATMAN => RODENT MAN and new ones.
- humans.png & humans.xml - individual files, updated for coloring (to replace "humies" ones). Not finished fully, but covers existing version. Children were lost by some reason earlier.I've tried "variations" option here for hairs, but with moving creatures it works not so good. Red thing is a plume for champions.Spoiler: humans.png (click to show/hide)
- I found that slightly screwed up the positioning of objects and the understanding of how the program cuts their edges last time (so, Japa, redownload images [1] (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4067)[2] (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4066), please, sorry again). And therefore I wanted to check out basic images. Some tiles in objects.png was cropped a bit (chairs, cabinets, bed, tables), some not centered (boxes and raised bridges).Spoiler: objects.png (click to show/hide)
- For the aforementioned reasons, slightly changed table legs.
- With floor grate help grayed for recoloring cage and wall grates.
- Added variations for archery target pillar.
- Animal Trap - not very pretty, but the real ones looks like cages or boxes anyway.
- Full set of trap placeholders. It's difficult to draw something like that in a single cell without overloading it with nonessential details, besides traps may interfere engravings. So... I allowed myself to finish a simple schematic versions until there is nothing better.
When nearby is a wall spike and weapon traps draws their wall variants. Maybe it's not a good idea, because truncation doesn't affect it and fortification counts as walls. Anyway this can be purged from xmls.
- buildings/Cage.xml
buildings/Kennels.xml
buildings/WallGrate.xml
buildings/Target.xml
buildings/Spikes.xml
buildings/CageTrap.xml
buildings/WeaponTrap.xml
buildings/StonefallTrap.xml
buildings/AnimalTrap.xml
Just updated xmls, coloring and new tiles and variants.
And a pair of issues (maybe too early, while contaminations not fully released).
Troll blood is displayed red (in game it's light-blue), while human blood is black (at arena at least), ichor is white as it should be.
Is it real to make visible contamination on the walls at now?
Zones and stockpiles when hidden also hide all grass on their tiles (blood is not affected), looks quite reasonable if reversed.
Post by: Rose on May 17, 2011, 10:41:43 pm
I'll put these into the next version, whenver that is...
Post by: DrKillPatient on May 20, 2011, 03:12:20 pm
Post by: Rose on May 20, 2011, 03:18:00 pm
Did you build all the allegro dependencies?
Post by: DrKillPatient on May 20, 2011, 04:11:19 pm
I installed every dependency (including optional ones, but not the documentation) from this page. I used allegro 5, by the way:
http://wiki.allegro.cc/index.php?title=Install_Allegro5_From_SVN/Linux/Debian
More specfically, all these:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
EDIT: I just rebuilt allegro again, same error.
Post by: hjd_uk on May 21, 2011, 04:58:30 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Also I have a random "Urist" with a generic sprite on my map, its not a Ghost or anything else that exists on that tile
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Fantastic app though, its great to see things in '3D' definitely a prerequisite DF companion.
Post by: Rose on May 21, 2011, 05:09:45 am
what a bastard, leaving us all hanging like this.
Post by: hjd_uk on May 21, 2011, 07:48:51 am
There is a "NeighbourOfType" tag : i.e
Code: [Select]
<NeighbourOfType dir="South" value="building_window_glassst"/>
Post by: Truean on May 21, 2011, 09:19:33 am
That indeed would be a nice tag to add, and that is indeed a bug, but the guy who was last developing stonesense, and consequently the one that knows what everything does, has kinda given up on the project.
what a bastard, leaving us all hanging like this.
Hum, any possibility of getting him back? Why did he leave? I'd throw him a couple bucks in addition to my monthly $10 to Toady if it comes down to it....
Post by: Rose on May 21, 2011, 09:52:46 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on May 21, 2011, 10:00:23 am
Though I'm sure it will be nice for this person to have a steady income.
Post by: Rose on May 21, 2011, 10:10:15 am
But remember, people, stonesense is open source, so anybody can pick it up.
Post by: KillHour on May 21, 2011, 11:57:08 am
Yeah, it is, but it means when I'm home from work, I'm too wiped out to work on stonesense.
But remember, people, stonesense is open source, so anybody can pick it up.
Crap. I hate programming. I have to start programming again, don't I?
Post by: Footkerchief on May 21, 2011, 12:47:54 pm
No, he'd never accept cash for it. the problem is, he's got a full time job, now, plus he's busy perfecting his super-villain laugh.
Full-time jobs are really bad for DF community projects. I need to be unemployed again so I can work on the Ark Project.
Post by: James.Denholm on May 21, 2011, 12:55:22 pm
No, he'd never accept cash for it. the problem is, he's got a full time job, now, plus he's busy perfecting his super-villain laugh.
Full-time jobs are really bad for DF community projects. I need to be unemployed again so I can work on the Ark Project.
Polyphasic sleep! Lead two lives, literally!
After all, if Batman can survive on two hours sleep a day, so can you. Actual sleeping habits of Bruce Wane not known.
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on May 22, 2011, 07:43:53 pm
"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."
I installed the vcredist_x86 files (MS ones, not the indie one as it's been put offline) and the problem persists. Any other tip?
Thanks!
Post by: Phanixis on June 01, 2011, 10:16:33 pm
Exact same problem. Searched the whole thread for a solution, and all I can see are references to the little spoiler in the first post, which fails to solve my problems. The readme file lacks any discussion on how I might configure or troubleshoot this program.
I would love to try this program out, but no offense guys, the tech support and instructions as is are outright wretched. I don't think any of the previous post asking this question have been answered.
Post by: Rose on June 01, 2011, 10:19:17 pm
Post by: Phanixis on June 02, 2011, 07:23:26 pm
Post by: Neonivek on June 02, 2011, 08:36:17 pm
I'm sorry to hear that. I looks like a fantastic mod. Without support, it will cease to work with Dwarf Fortress thanks to Toady's continual updates.
Well it hardly matters until Toady puts in the support he technically said he will give eventually.
Post by: Greiger on June 02, 2011, 08:42:30 pm
Anyway sorry to hear that Japa, but life is more important. Stonesense had a good run, even if somebody doesn't take the defibrillator to it.
Post by: Phanixis on June 02, 2011, 09:48:26 pm
There are just too many unknowns to troubleshoot, for instance:
1.) Is there a way to manually configure the program to tell it the location of Dwarf Fortress.exe, or does it autodetect it. If it autodetects, how does it distinguish between multiple copies of dwarf fortress? Are their limitations to its autodetection, such as working with multiple hard drives?
2.) Am I supposed to run stonesense before or after dwarf fortress?
3.) Should stonesense be installed in the same directory as dwarf fortress or its own directory?
4.) Does stonesense work with legacy windows, SDL windows or both?
5.) Does stonesense work in fullscreen mode, windowed mode, or both?
I can't get the program to work if I have to mess with every one of these permutations each time I come up with an idea on how to correct the problem. Instructions would help, A LOT.
Post by: Rose on June 02, 2011, 09:59:02 pm
I might be able to make it work, but I need some kind of instructions for the program. Slate 2.2 actually runs, but it informs me it is unable to locate the Dwarf Fortress.exe. If I knew how to point the program to the executable, I might be able to get it to work.It'll randomly pick one running DF. And it doesn't have any idea where you are running DF from it just finds a running program in memory that matches DF.
There are just too many unknowns to troubleshoot, for instance:
1.) Is there a way to manually configure the program to tell it the location of Dwarf Fortress.exe, or does it autodetect it. If it autodetects, how does it distinguish between multiple copies of dwarf fortress? Are their limitations to its autodetection, such as working with multiple hard drives?
2.) Am I supposed to run stonesense before or after dwarf fortress?After you have a fort loaded.
3.) Should stonesense be installed in the same directory as dwarf fortress or its own directory?Doesn't matter in the slightest.
4.) Does stonesense work with legacy windows, SDL windows or both?SDL only.
5.) Does stonesense work in fullscreen mode, windowed mode, or both?Either, really.
I can't get the program to work if I have to mess with every one of these permutations each time I come up with an idea on how to correct the problem. Instructions would help, A LOT.It's quite simple. Only the latest version of Stonesense will work with the latest version of DF, and even that requires you to insert an updated memory.xml, and you also need to install some visual studio runtimes.
Post by: Truean on June 02, 2011, 10:08:25 pm
Quote
1.) Is there a way to manually configure the program to tell it the location of Dwarf Fortress.exe, or does it autodetect it. If it autodetects, how does it distinguish between multiple copies of dwarf fortress? Are their limitations to its autodetection, such as working with multiple hard drives?Autodetect; the one currently running; it works just fine for me when I run stonesense off my desktop hard drive and DF off a 3TB external hard drive
Quote
2.) Am I supposed to run stonesense before or after dwarf fortress?Run DF first, load fort, stonesense after. That way it has something to autodetect
Quote
3.) Should stonesense be installed in the same directory as dwarf fortress or its own directory?I've actually done it both ways over the many versions. Doesn't seem to matter.
Quote
4.) Does stonesense work with legacy windows, SDL windows or both?I've had it work on XP, Vista, and 7. Beyond that, don't know.
Quote
5.) Does stonesense work in fullscreen mode, windowed mode, or both?I've only gotten it to work in windowed. It should work in fullscreen; I'm probably doing something wrong but don't care enough to fix it.
________________________________________________
Meh, let me try to clear this up. There's an fundamental misunderstanding here. Basically, while you're pointed towards the link on the first page for offsets, no one tells you what on earth to do with them, because it's [erroneously] assumed you know. The answer is closer than it is too far....
Instructions for how to replace/update the DF HACK xml offsets in your machine:
You just right click on the link and "save file as."
Move the file from wherever you saved it to the stonesense file.
delete the old XML file (will be replaced with the new XML file
That's really all there is to installing it. Right click, save as, move file to stonesense and replace the old xml file (you will usually be prompted). In my machine the suggested file name is "MEMORY" and it will probably be in your machine too.
It's kinda funny that no one actually gave user step instructions to update the xml. I confess it took me a little bit to figure out with all my preoccupations.
Post by: Phanixis on June 02, 2011, 10:13:45 pm
Post by: Truean on June 02, 2011, 10:19:33 pm
Thanks for the help. I regard to number 4.), that is not the version of windows I have, those are the versions of the programs available for download. Both SDL and legacy work on my Windows XP system, I was just wondering if you needed one or the other for the program to run.
Sure thing. Its amazing how often professionals take the little things for granted and assume everyone knows said little things.
Of course, I may have just screwed up the system that kept the thread on the first page of the modding form. People would routinely add new posts to the thread asking the exact same question you did. The steady stream of new posts would in turn make sure the stonesense thread was always on the first page and the vicious cycle would continue.
I may be a bastard for helping.... O no.... :P
Post by: Phanixis on June 02, 2011, 10:31:33 pm
Post by: peterix on June 03, 2011, 04:43:56 am
Any objections?
Post by: Truean on June 03, 2011, 05:52:36 am
What the hell. I might just pick it up and keep it alive until a real maintainer/developer shows up.
Any objections?
You rock Peterix; direct support from the maker of DF Hack himself can only help us.
Post by: jonask84 on June 03, 2011, 02:53:15 pm
You're currently set as "Committer" to the project, which means you have rights to do what you need to in the trunk and the branches. Is there anything else we can help you with right now?
Edit: You do have my private email right? if not just pm me or check the google code group, it should be on there :)
Post by: schplat on June 03, 2011, 10:52:53 pm
Scoured around for an answer, and nothing.
Tried:
Turning image cache off/on, setting image cache size to 4k, 2k, 1k. Setting the renderer to SOFTWARE.
stonesense.log yields nothing other than:
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
Any ideas of what to try next?
Post by: Rose on June 03, 2011, 11:03:23 pm
Allegro being the graphics library that stonesense uses.
Post by: schplat on June 03, 2011, 11:08:18 pm
Alright, guess no stonesense at work =/, or I ditch virtualbox, and try out the OSX port of DT (which is the main functionality I'm going for anyways). Thanks for the quick answer.
Post by: schplat on June 05, 2011, 02:11:38 pm
First I got:
In file included from /home/splat/stonesense/stonesense/Block.cpp:1:0:
/home/splat/stonesense/stonesense/common.h:13:34: fatal error: allegro5/allegro_ttf.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
This was fixed with ln -s ./allegro/allegro5/ ./allegro5 from the stonesense root.
Next pass produces:
/home/splat/stonesense/stonesense/allegro5/platform/almsvc.h:19:16: fatal error: io.h: No such file or directory
compilation terminated.
io.h is a Windows header, not to mention msvc refers to MS VC.
I have all the libs that are claimed to be required:
allegro5-devel-5.0.0-3.fc15.x86_64
zlib-devel-1.2.5-3.fc15.x86_64
libpng-devel-1.2.44-3.fc15.x86_64
cmake-2.8.4-1.fc15.x86_64
make-3.82-4.fc15.x86_64
gcc-c++-4.6.0-7.fc15.x86_64
Any thoughts on how to build from here?
Post by: Rose on June 05, 2011, 02:36:48 pm
the ones in the stonesense dir are only for windows, and even then only for MSVC 2005
Post by: schplat on June 05, 2011, 04:02:56 pm
So now it builds all the way, but X doesn't like it:
X Error of failed request: BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)
Major opcode of failed request: 129 (XFree86-VidModeExtension)
Minor opcode of failed request: 6 (XF86VidModeGetAllModeLines)
Value in failed request: 0x17
Serial number of failed request: 35
Current serial number in output stream: 35
Probably because I'm using TwinView?
Edit: Definitely. I'm using Twinview's Rotate, which disables XRandR, which is required to launch stonesense. Going to see if I can get XRandR to rotate this screen, but I haven't had luck with that in the past. For desk space issues, I've got 2 1680x1050 monitors rotated 90 degrees (so basically a 2100x1680 display). I'll write I full install guide, and if someone wants to update the compile for linux doc, that'd be good imo.
Post by: schplat on June 05, 2011, 07:55:44 pm
1. Download DFHack and build it:
https://github.com/peterix/dfhack (this will have a file hash in the filename, so I'll use wildcards and/or tab completions to fill in for that piece)
Click Downloads, the under Download Source, click .tar.gz
mkdir ~/dfhack
mv ~/Downloads/peter-dfhack* ~/dfhack
cd ~dfhack
tar zxvf peter-dfhack*.tar.gz
cd peter-dfhack<tab complete>
cd build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
make
arch (looking for .i686 or x86_64, basically 32-bit or 64-bit)
if 64-bit:
sudo cp ~/dfhack/peterix-dfhack*/build/bin/libdfhack.so /usr/lib64
if 32-bit:
sudo cp ~/dfhack/peterix-dfhack*/build/bin/libdfhack.so /usr/lib
2. Install allegro5 and devel libs needed
sudo yum install allegro5 allegro5-devel allegro5-addon-ttf-devel allegro5-addon-image-devel allegro5-addon-dialog-devel
3. Download Stonesense and build:
cd ~
svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk stonesense
cd stonesense
rm -rf allegro
cd build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=~/dfhack/peterix-dfhack<tab complete>/library/include make
DONE! Should be able to start stonesense with ~/stonesense/stonesense &
Enjoy.
Post by: Vanzetti on June 06, 2011, 02:22:34 pm
I get lots of purple shapes where, I quess, names should be. Any idea how to fix it?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 06, 2011, 10:31:53 pm
Hello.
I get lots of purple shapes where, I quess, names should be. Any idea how to fix it?
If you resize stonesense while it is loading, the magenta=clear seems to fail.
Try resizing before hitting F9 or waiting untill it's finished loading before resizing.
Otherwise, a picture might help to understand the problem.
Post by: Kaos on June 08, 2011, 09:11:09 am
I assume that since it doesn't have a color it defaults to the pure white color specified in the colors.xlm for inorganic, right?
The same happens with clay bricks, the clay types have custom colors in the soils file, but the bricks default to white...
Post by: Rose on June 08, 2011, 09:28:18 am
making your own entry is easy as all hell.
Post by: Kaos on June 08, 2011, 11:29:25 am
yeah, anything without an entry in the xml file is pure white.yeah, but what color should they be anyway?? is there any logic to the colors they choose for the stones in stonesense?
making your own entry is easy as all hell.
like for example dacite in-game is supposed to be light gray, but other stones that also are supposed to be light gray have a rainbow of different colors in stonesense...
And what about the bricks? what color should they be? a darker or lighter version of the clay's color? how do you define the bricks colors? I have plenty of examples for rocks and such, but not one brick as a guide... I was thinking they should be like stone blocks but I couldn't find a definition for blocks either, I assume they use the stone color somehow... which brings the question why doesn't it do the same for bricks with the clay color?
Post by: Karthas077 on June 08, 2011, 11:33:28 am
In case what I have just said does not make sense, here is a link to the best view I can get:
(http://img.ie/images/b01a6_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/b01a6.jpg.html)
What shows up while alt-tabbing is all there is. Using task-manager to "switch to" or "Bring to front" does absolutely nothing... But I know it's running and the image is there!
Please help DX
Post by: Rose on June 08, 2011, 11:50:31 am
yeah, but what color should they be anyway?? is there any logic to the colors they choose for the stones in stonesense?I did an image-search of all the rocks in the game, and chose colors based off of what I could find. it took weeks.
like for example dacite in-game is supposed to be light gray, but other stones that also are supposed to be light gray have a rainbow of different colors in stonesense...
And what about the bricks? what color should they be? a darker or lighter version of the clay's color? how do you define the bricks colors? I have plenty of examples for rocks and such, but not one brick as a guide... I was thinking they should be like stone blocks but I couldn't find a definition for blocks either, I assume they use the stone color somehow... which brings the question why doesn't it do the same for bricks with the clay color?
bricks are probaly a different material. turn on debug mode in stonesense and see what it shows.
So I'm having a ton of trouble getting this to work... Initially when I started the program, nothing would pop up, but the icon would appear on my taskbar. Alt-tabbing shows the appication running, and I can see it in miniature,but trying to switch to the program did not allow me to see it. I thought maybe it was frozen, but upon further examination, I discovered that I can get the program to display my fortress, but I can still only see the tiny Windows 7 preview window while Alt-Tabbing... I can't actually see it >_>
In case what I have just said does not make sense, here is a link to the best view I can get:
(http://img.ie/images/b01a6_thumb.jpg) (http://img.ie/b01a6.jpg.html)
What shows up while alt-tabbing is all there is. Using task-manager to "switch to" or "Bring to front" does absolutely nothing... But I know it's running and the image is there!
Please help DX
Hm... it's possible it's opening off-screen for some reason. hover your mouse over the stonesense icon on the taskbar, and when the thumbnail pops up, right click on it and chose 'move'. that may help.
Post by: Karthas077 on June 08, 2011, 12:01:21 pm
Also, maximizing, minimizing, or any sequence of those two commands coupled with move/switchto/etc do not work as well.
Any other ideas?
Post by: Rose on June 08, 2011, 12:08:30 pm
Post by: Kaos on June 08, 2011, 01:21:02 pm
how do I turn on debug mode? in the readme there are commands to use in debug mode but no how to get there in the first placeyeah, but what color should they be anyway?? is there any logic to the colors they choose for the stones in stonesense?I did an image-search of all the rocks in the game, and chose colors based off of what I could find. it took weeks.
like for example dacite in-game is supposed to be light gray, but other stones that also are supposed to be light gray have a rainbow of different colors in stonesense...And what about the bricks? what color should they be? a darker or lighter version of the clay's color? how do you define the bricks colors? I have plenty of examples for rocks and such, but not one brick as a guide... I was thinking they should be like stone blocks but I couldn't find a definition for blocks either, I assume they use the stone color somehow... which brings the question why doesn't it do the same for bricks with the clay color?bricks are probaly a different material. turn on debug mode in stonesense and see what it shows.
Post by: Rose on June 08, 2011, 01:25:27 pm
there's lots of goodies there.
Post by: Kaos on June 08, 2011, 03:33:08 pm
Post by: DrKillPatient on June 08, 2011, 06:04:51 pm
Linux Build instructions! (This is good as of DF 31.25, DFHack 0.5.14, and Stonesense Slate v2.3). This was performed under Fedora 15, so YMMV with Ubuntu/Arch/etc.
1. Download DFHack and build it:
https://github.com/peterix/dfhack (this will have a file hash in the filename, so I'll use wildcards and/or tab completions to fill in for that piece)
Click Downloads, the under Download Source, click .tar.gz
mkdir ~/dfhack
mv ~/Downloads/peter-dfhack* ~/dfhack
cd ~dfhack
tar zxvf peter-dfhack*.tar.gz
cd peter-dfhack<tab complete>
cd build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
make
arch (looking for .i686 or x86_64, basically 32-bit or 64-bit)
if 64-bit:
sudo cp ~/dfhack/peterix-dfhack*/build/bin/libdfhack.so /usr/lib64
if 32-bit:
sudo cp ~/dfhack/peterix-dfhack*/build/bin/libdfhack.so /usr/lib
2. Install allegro5 and devel libs needed
sudo yum install allegro5 allegro5-devel allegro5-addon-ttf-devel allegro5-addon-image-devel allegro5-addon-dialog-devel
3. Download Stonesense and build:
cd ~
svn checkout http://stonesense.googlecode.com/svn/trunk stonesense
cd stonesense
rm -rf allegro
cd build
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
CPLUS_INCLUDE_PATH=~/dfhack/peterix-dfhack<tab complete>/library/include make
DONE! Should be able to start stonesense with ~/stonesense/stonesense &
Enjoy.
This nearly worked, however, these packages aren't available to me through yum (what is yum anyway? Isn't apt-get the same thing?):
No package allegro5 available.
No package allegro5-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-ttf-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-image-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-dialog-devel available.
~/stonesense/stonesense & gives me 'cannot load font: DejaVuSans.ttf'. It's in the folder with stonesense's main application, however. Terminal says SS can't find the init file, but init tells it to look for that font, so maybe the error is unrelated/doesn't affect anything? That seems to indicate that init can be read.
Post by: Kaos on June 08, 2011, 11:15:00 pm
Quote from: wikipedia
Dacite is intermediate in compositions between andesite and rhyoliteSo I used the colors for andesite and ryolite, averaged them and got a color in-between for dacite:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Code: [Select]
\Stonesense Slate v2.3\colors\Colors_Stone_Layer.xmland you'll get colored dacite like this:(http://img.ie/images/53b58_thumb.png) (http://img.ie/53b58.png.html)
Now, with the ceramics:
Create a file named:
Code: [Select]
\Stonesense Slate v2.3\colors\Colors_Ceramic.xml and copy this into it:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Code: [Select]
Colors_Ceramic.xml to the Code: [Select]
\Stonesense Slate v2.3\colors\index.txt file.Now between the
Code: [Select]
<colors></colors> tags add the following:For Earthenware:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://img.ie/images/b1812_thumb.png) (http://img.ie/b1812.png.html)
For Stoneware:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://img.ie/images/26296_thumb.png) (http://img.ie/26296.png.html)
By the way, are the glazes detected at all? the 3 statues you see in the pic are earthenware, earthenware + ash glaze and earthenware + tin glaze, but the debug makes no distinction between them...
Enjoy! Feel free to include these in the next release if you like them.
Post by: Greiger on June 09, 2011, 04:27:49 pm
Post by: Karthas077 on June 09, 2011, 06:11:37 pm
It still seems really bizarre. I'm going to see if it's my computer or my install this weekend when I go home.
Post by: kaypy on June 09, 2011, 08:35:52 pm
Post by: schplat on June 10, 2011, 10:09:36 am
This nearly worked, however, these packages aren't available to me through yum (what is yum anyway? Isn't apt-get the same thing?):
No package allegro5 available.
No package allegro5-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-ttf-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-image-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-dialog-devel available.
~/stonesense/stonesense & gives me 'cannot load font: DejaVuSans.ttf'. It's in the folder with stonesense's main application, however. Terminal says SS can't find the init file, but init tells it to look for that font, so maybe the error is unrelated/doesn't affect anything? That seems to indicate that init can be read.
yum and apt-get are similar, but quite a bit different in what packages are available, since your distro controls what's available. Fedora makes these available. You're gonna be stuck building allegro5 manually from source. You can't load the font, because the addon-ttf-devel package isn't there to build off of.
Allegro's wiki shows a how to build on Debian based distros. I'd start there.
Post by: Karthas077 on June 10, 2011, 12:37:10 pm
What happens if you right click on the taskbar, select move, then leave the mouse alone and hold down arrows on the keyboard for a bit?
Just holding down the arrow keys did absolutely nothing, but after I did so however moving the mouse brought the window up as it was then tied to the mouses' location and not dependent on me dragging it.
I have no clue what was going wrong still, and this happens every time I open the program, but it's working now!!!
I can only conclude it is opening somewhere very very very strange and far offscreen.... which doesn't make sense but I'm not going to question it DX
Thank you so much.
Post by: Andir on June 10, 2011, 01:33:08 pm
That's Windows for you... (this is Windows right?) Whenever I need to move a window that's in a bad spot (I keep my taskbar up top and some idiots like to open their programs at {0,0}) I need to select move, nudge it one pixel with my keyboard, then move the mouse to get the window movement to "link" to the mouse cursor. If I do not use the keyboard, the window will never detect my mouse position and never move.What happens if you right click on the taskbar, select move, then leave the mouse alone and hold down arrows on the keyboard for a bit?
Just holding down the arrow keys did absolutely nothing, but after I did so however moving the mouse brought the window up as it was then tied to the mouses' location and not dependent on me dragging it.
I have no clue what was going wrong still, and this happens every time I open the program, but it's working now!!!
I can only conclude it is opening somewhere very very very strange and far offscreen.... which doesn't make sense but I'm not going to question it DX
Thank you so much.
Post by: DrKillPatient on June 10, 2011, 03:22:49 pm
This nearly worked, however, these packages aren't available to me through yum (what is yum anyway? Isn't apt-get the same thing?):
No package allegro5 available.
No package allegro5-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-ttf-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-image-devel available.
No package allegro5-addon-dialog-devel available.
~/stonesense/stonesense & gives me 'cannot load font: DejaVuSans.ttf'. It's in the folder with stonesense's main application, however. Terminal says SS can't find the init file, but init tells it to look for that font, so maybe the error is unrelated/doesn't affect anything? That seems to indicate that init can be read.
yum and apt-get are similar, but quite a bit different in what packages are available, since your distro controls what's available. Fedora makes these available. You're gonna be stuck building allegro5 manually from source. You can't load the font, because the addon-ttf-devel package isn't there to build off of.
Allegro's wiki shows a how to build on Debian based distros. I'd start there.
Just built it and compiled again, no dice. Is the font stuff included seperately?
Post by: Rose on June 10, 2011, 03:36:46 pm
Post by: peterix on June 10, 2011, 03:39:57 pm
make sure you are compiling allegro 5 with all addonsExactly. Use ccmake instead of cmake - make sure you have all the reqired stuff turned on in there. And check the cmake output - the build system will tell you when it can't find optional libraries. You may be missing some -dev packages. For example the one for freetype.
Post by: schplat on June 10, 2011, 04:25:14 pm
Just built it and compiled again, no dice. Is the font stuff included seperately?
Yes. Building all addons is the safe bet, but all that was required for me was ttf, dialog, and image. Building on additional addons may help if additional addons are later included in Stonesense.
Post by: peterix on June 10, 2011, 05:40:06 pm
Oh, dialog needs the gtk dev libs! It won't build without them.
Just built it and compiled again, no dice. Is the font stuff included seperately?
Yes. Building all addons is the safe bet, but all that was required for me was ttf, dialog, and image. Building on additional addons may help if additional addons are later included in Stonesense.
Post by: arclance on June 11, 2011, 07:11:01 pm
I got the font not found error by running with
Quote
~/stonesense/stonesense &I was able to run stonesense without the font error using
Quote
cd stonesenseA window opens and then crashes almost imediately after connecting to dwarf fortress is shown.
./stonesense
The following is shown in the terminal.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: schplat on June 11, 2011, 08:09:22 pm
If you're getting the .ttf can't be loaded error, do a 'cd ~/stonesense && ./stonesense &' (no quotes) from there. I was able to replicate that, it's a PATH issue, I forgot I do some funky PATH stuff =P.
Maybe I'll see what it takes to compile on a Mac. Dunno if I'm THAT masochistic though. Plus, I think the memory stuff is WAY different anyways.
Post by: arclance on June 11, 2011, 08:21:50 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: peterix on June 12, 2011, 05:13:26 am
Grab the dfhack Ubuntu .deb package - it has some magical anti-Ubuntu-stupid bits that will turn ptrace on again.
Post by: arclance on June 12, 2011, 07:47:02 pm
Well, some crappy security thing is getting in the way. Stupid distros disabling ptrace with no way to whitelist apps.I did that. Now it works.
Grab the dfhack Ubuntu .deb package - it has some magical anti-Ubuntu-stupid bits that will turn ptrace on again.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Evaristo Carriego on June 15, 2011, 02:42:55 pm
Post by: Rose on June 15, 2011, 02:50:58 pm
step two: save the memory.xml linked in the first post into the stonesense directory, over-writing the existing one.
step three: load a fort.
step four: run stonesense.
Post by: The13thRonin on June 15, 2011, 03:54:01 pm
Post by: Deon on June 15, 2011, 04:00:11 pm
Post by: Evaristo Carriego on June 15, 2011, 05:05:27 pm
step one: unszip it literally anywhere.
step two: save the memory.xml linked in the first post into the stonesense directory, over-writing the existing one.
step three: load a fort.
step four: run stonesense.
Changed the .xml, still not working. I'm getting a setconfig error.
This is with .25 and 2.3, if that helps.
Post by: crazz2323 on June 16, 2011, 04:51:40 pm
Post by: nomad_delta on June 16, 2011, 09:23:48 pm
Edit: Proofs! http://i.imgur.com/nXaif.jpg
--nomad_delta
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 17, 2011, 01:45:14 am
This looks pretty neat but has this project been dropped? Been a while since DF 31.25 came out in March. Why is Stonesense not compatible by now? Just for fun, I tried copying the current xml as instructed but no luck Stonesense stopped responding. Too bad looked cool.
Usually, in my experience, stonesense not responding comes from successfully finding a DF process, but not actually having a fort loaded in dwarf fortress.
The fix being to load a fort in dwarf fortress before asking stonesense to draw the current fort.
I apologise if I have misinterpreted you. If this is not your problem, perhaps more information would help fix it.
Post by: Rose on June 17, 2011, 02:33:36 pm
Post by: MariusD on June 17, 2011, 02:57:13 pm
Stonesense itself only displays the message Segmentation Fault but running dmesg reveals the a similar error as experienced in reply #5081:
(4 attempts of running stonesense)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
So the problem seems to have something to do with the dfhack library. I see there is already a solution for this for ubuntu users as quoted below:
Well, some crappy security thing is getting in the way. Stupid distros disabling ptrace with no way to whitelist apps.
Grab the dfhack Ubuntu .deb package - it has some magical anti-Ubuntu-stupid bits that will turn ptrace on again.
However since I use Opensuse I was wondering if there is a way to patch the source manually or some other fix without installing a precompiled package? Thanks :)
Post by: Greiger on June 17, 2011, 04:27:36 pm
I'm guessing it will take advantage of that new integrated into DF DFHack stuff?
Post by: Vaugher on June 17, 2011, 04:57:05 pm
Also, those pictures that have metal-looking fences. They can't be wall grates since grates don't have corner pieces, so what are they?
Edit: I found the GrimDark pack on the content repository, but I can't seem to get it to work. I follow the instructions, and Stonesense continues to run fine. I don't get any errors. But nothing is changed, I don't get any of the new graphics.
Edit 2: Alright, I got it to work but noticed that a large amount of stones (namely all the stone in the sedimentary layer...) don't seem to be supported by it and still use the old graphics. Is there any way for me to create/modify entries to get these stones to use the new graphics? If there is no simple way to do this, then I guess my question goes back to the original question, "where'd those clean cut bricks come from?"
Post by: Greiger on June 17, 2011, 07:53:50 pm
The metal looking fences are probably vertical bars (different from grates as they are constructed straight from metal bars) all metals are the same color in the default pack I believe because they lack the tag stuff to make them read materiel color.
As for changing a sprite you would go into the terrain folder in the stonesense folder and modify the xml files. (right click>open with>notepad or word or what have you) Unfortunately I'm not very good at modifying them at this point, I can do creature sprites (barely, there's a reason why my dracon thing on the content repository doesn't take advantage of skin coloration) and a couple buildings but I haven't messed with terrain.
It looks to me like the Block_walls.xml file would be the one you want to modify, but I couldn't tell you exactly what offhand to get what you want to happen since I'm also not familiar with GrimDark. This (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/Utility:Stonesense/Sprites) might help point you in the right direction of figuring out the xml files, but that's really the best I can do. Hopefully somebody with more specific knowledge will chime in soon.
EDIT: I keep feeling bad about not being to help more with that when it shouldn't be all that different, but I just keep looking at those terrain xmls and draw a blank.
Post by: Vaugher on June 17, 2011, 08:14:11 pm
Regardless, I have no idea how Grimdark works, and so I have no idea how to convert other stone types to use its graphics. If someone could help out with this, it would be greatly appreciated.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 17, 2011, 10:12:03 pm
I'd like to get that clean-cut look. Is there any way to do this?Boulder walls and block walls are differentiated now.
Have your mason make blocks at the masonry, rather than stacking boulders to make walls.
Also, those pictures that have metal-looking fences. They can't be wall grates since grates don't have corner pieces, so what are they?Things dont have to have corner pieces in DF to have corners in stonesense.
They are Vertical Bars; constructed with, well, bars.
Edit 2: Alright, I got it to work but noticed that a large amount of stones (namely all the stone in the sedimentary layer...) don't seem to be supported by it and still use the old graphics. Is there any way for me to create/modify entries to get these stones to use the new graphics? If there is no simple way to do this, then I guess my question goes back to the original question, "where'd those clean cut bricks come from?"If a pack doesn't change something, it is usually because it isn't finished yet.
Otherwise, the xml file that references the spritesheet you want to use, can be modified to encompass more. I think you can simply add the names of stones to one of the lists, assuming the pack has a different sprite for each stone type.
If I try re-downloading a copy of stonesense from this thread, it wont work.Stonesense uses DFhack so that there doesn't have to be a new release for every of Toady's bugfixes.
In the OP there is a link to an .xml file, I beleive under "If this doesn't work" or somesuch, download that and overwrite the one included with stonesense to update it.
Post by: Vaugher on June 17, 2011, 10:26:51 pm
Boulder walls and block walls are differentiated now.
Have your mason make blocks at the masonry, rather than stacking boulders to make walls.
I understand that they're supposed to be differentiated, but they both seem to use the same sprite model for me. I have the latest Stonesense.
If a pack doesn't change something, it is usually because it isn't finished yet.
Otherwise, the xml file that references the spritesheet you want to use, can be modified to encompass more. I think you can simply add the names of stones to one of the lists, assuming the pack has a different sprite for each stone type.
The pack is not finished, that is true. It hasn't been updated since January, either. However, I have no experience whatsoever and have no idea how to start adding new stones to the pack. From what I can gather, a unique image is used for every kind of wall for every stone type. I do not mind re-using these resources so long as I can figure out how to make new entries to use them.
Stonesense uses DFhack so that there doesn't have to be a new release for every of Toady's bugfixes.
In the OP there is a link to an .xml file, I beleive under "If this doesn't work" or somesuch, download that and overwrite the one included with stonesense to update it.
That explains why a fresh copy wasn't working, but I have the latest copy of Stonesense anyway.
Edit: I seem to have figured out how to apply the graphics to other stones. What I can't figure out is how to use the ramps... The guy who made the pack made all the sprites for ramps but never applied them, so I have nothing to base this off of.
Edit 2: Ah, the whole thing is a bit of a bust. It always ends up kinda messy and only semi-functional. And all I wanted were clean cut bricks...
Post by: Thundercraft on June 17, 2011, 11:06:18 pm
If I try re-downloading a copy of stonesense from this thread, it wont work.Stonesense uses DFhack so that there doesn't have to be a new release for every of Toady's bugfixes.
In the OP there is a link to an .xml file, I beleive under "If this doesn't work" or somesuch, download that and overwrite the one included with stonesense to update it.
That explains why a fresh copy wasn't working, but I have the latest copy of Stonesense anyway.The latest copy of Stonesense right now, as you can see here (http://code.google.com/p/stonesense/downloads/list), is Stonesense Version 2.3, which was uploaded on March 15. That was before DF v0.31.25 was released. In order to be fully updated, Stonesense version 2.3 still needs a Memory.xml file that is more recent than what came in that download. Hence the suggestion to get that file from the link in the OP. (Though, to be honest, the Memory.xml I use is from the DFHack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=58809.0) package, since that's always the most recent version.)
It amazes me how many users and would-be users fail to read the OP. With so many players overlooking that and posting here about this problem, and Japa working on a new version, I wonder if the new version will have an of automatic update feature to auto-download Memory.xml from Google Code, similar to what Dwarf Therapist does now (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=66525.msg2360774#msg2360774)? Though, personally, I'd prefer it if Stonesense did not do that. I'd rather install Memory.xml manually to avoid having any more programs on my PC connect to the Internet.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 17, 2011, 11:19:33 pm
If for example you wanted to have sandstone share a tile with Diorite.
In the "Grim Dark" folder, SSGD_igneous_intrusive.xml contains 3 parts that say "<subtype value="DIORITE"/>".
Directly after those you can add "<subtype value="SANDSTONE"/>".
If you turn on Debug Mode for stonesense, by changing "[DEBUGMODE:NO]" to "[DEBUGMODE:YES]" in the init.txt file within the stonesense directory, a tile you select in df, with "k" for example, will have info in the bottom left corner of stonesense. Most of the time, the ID name is the same as ingame, barring being all capitals, otherwise you can see here what you need to add to <subtype value=""> to get it to include this.
I don't have a list of sedementary stones on hand, unfortunately, so you will have to type them all out; unless someone else has them.
---
On block walls, I haven't found any entries describing them in grimdark, you can make your own entry though.
Here are settings for stone block walls pulled from my own inprogress (unreleased) pack.
Code: [Select]
<block sprite="0">
<terrain value="495"/>
<terrain value="496"/>
<terrain value="497"/>
<terrain value="498"/>
<terrain value="499"/>
<terrain value="500"/>
<terrain value="501"/>
<terrain value="502"/>
<terrain value="503"/>
<terrain value="504"/>
<terrain value="505"/>
<terrain value="506"/>
<terrain value="507"/>
<terrain value="508"/>
<terrain value="509"/>
<terrain value="510"/>
<terrain value="511"/>
<terrain value="512"/>
<terrain value="513"/>
<terrain value="514"/>
<form value="block" />
<material value="Inorganic" />
</block>Change the sprite on the first line to the image you want.If you want different pictures for different stones, make multiple copies with <subtype value=""/>'s.
If you want it tinted to the colour of the stone, use a gray/white stone, and add color="material" next to sprite="".
Numbers for the sprites start at 0 on the first line 20 on the second line and so on, regardless of how wide the spritesheet is.
---
I think I've covered everything, let me know if i missed anything.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Also @ japa, if you can add so doors are considered walls in border_wall_NOR, border_open_NOR and the like, It would be appreciated(If you have the time).
Post by: Vaugher on June 17, 2011, 11:41:01 pm
Also, Thunder, the problem is not that stonesense is not working for me. I know all about how to make it work, and have had it working since before I posted. On the latest version, too. The problem was me wanting to change sprites.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 18, 2011, 12:01:47 am
Ramps need to be in <blocks><block></block></blocks> like blocks, floors need to be in <floors><floor></floor></floors>,
All xml tags need to be closed or it will invaliate the whole xml,
All open tags eg.<block> need a closing tag eg.</block>,
All single tags need to be closed at the end eg.<terrain />.
Also, if you didn't already know, you can have subsprites, <subsprite sprite="0" color="none"/> to add another layer, say if you wanted highlights that aren't tinted, or a detail that some tiles have that would otherwise be the same eg. engravings.
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 12:06:48 am
<subtype value="BASALT" color="material"/>
Basalt tiles are using the correct graphic, but are still white. Am I putting the line together incorrectly?
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 18, 2011, 12:27:40 am
for example; (from my gems code)
Code: [Select]
<!-- generic stone -->
<block sprite="0" color="layer">
<terrain value="219" />
<terrain value="335" />
<terrain value="440" />
<!-- Gems -->
<subsprite sprite="2" color="material" />
<!-- Gem highlights -->
<subsprite sprite="3"/>
<material value="Stone">
<subtype value="ONYX" />
<!-- there were lots more gem types listed here, I cut them to make it easier to read -->
</material>
</block>color tag accepts: layer; vein; material; none.Layer is what the main layer of that depth and biome is made of eg.mudstone
Vein runs on ores and gems.
Material is what DF counts it as being made of.
None is good for highlights, shading, cracks, carvings, etc.
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 04:01:17 am
Also, how do I define which kind of tile the entry is actually editing? For example, say I wanted an entry to define a Fortification tile.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 18, 2011, 04:07:22 am
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 04:16:11 am
Post by: Rose on June 18, 2011, 04:23:50 am
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 04:25:48 am
wait, that's not right. tinting is supposed to work with variations just fine....
Well, I didn't make the original XMLs so I wouldn't be able to tell what the issue was, however the only thing I did to make the code work was remove the variations.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 18, 2011, 08:47:58 am
I still say let me have a looksee at what you've got in the xml.
Also, if you are just using notepad to edit the xml, I suggest getting notepadd++. It'll colour the parts of the code and makes it easier to see if you've missed a bracket or anything like that.
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 01:44:08 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
And here's a snippet from one of the original XMLs WITH variation. I don't have any copies of the ones I made with the variation.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on June 18, 2011, 08:51:51 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 09:30:47 pm
So the code is fine, but what I'd like to know is how does the variation code select which sprite(s) to use? So if the tile's sprite is said to be 40, what other sprites will it use? 41?
Post by: Rose on June 18, 2011, 10:40:29 pm
That code has caused the sprites to use two variations. However, some of the variant sprites a bit whacky, such as rough, natural stone using the sprite for smoothed or constructed walls/floors. This is probably due to the layout of the sprite sheet I made (using the resources from the pack).
So the code is fine, but what I'd like to know is how does the variation code select which sprite(s) to use? So if the tile's sprite is said to be 40, what other sprites will it use? 41?
exactly. it'll swap between 40 and 41.
Post by: Vaugher on June 18, 2011, 10:46:48 pm
Post by: therahedwig on June 19, 2011, 03:07:08 pm
Didn't know about the boulder-differentiation either... :(
Grim Dark is still inprogress(At the metamorphics now, still) I just haven't played a lot of dwarf fortress lately due to a lovely combination of three things: 1) school 2)doing spritework proffesionally as well 3) computer troubles.
I'll be updating grimdark in the summer holidays though :)
Post by: Rose on June 19, 2011, 03:17:49 pm
Post by: therahedwig on June 19, 2011, 03:24:50 pm
What's the stuff you were considering to ignore for now?
Post by: Rose on June 19, 2011, 03:27:51 pm
the most likely feature to be taken out is anything that checks the surrounding tiles. however, that may not be needed. I'll have to see.
Post by: therahedwig on June 19, 2011, 03:41:26 pm
Post by: Rose on June 19, 2011, 03:42:46 pm
maybe I'll make it an init setting.
Post by: Jadael on June 19, 2011, 04:23:45 pm
Post by: Vaugher on June 19, 2011, 11:26:55 pm
Damnit, now I feel bad that I didn't stick around more.
Didn't know about the boulder-differentiation either... :(
Grim Dark is still inprogress(At the metamorphics now, still) I just haven't played a lot of dwarf fortress lately due to a lovely combination of three things: 1) school 2)doing spritework proffesionally as well 3) computer troubles.
I'll be updating grimdark in the summer holidays though :)
Haha, hope you don't mind me playing around with your pack. I really like the style, but was kinda disappointed with how little it applied to. I've since made all previously unsupported stones use a combination of the Igneous and Ore sprites, though. Works pretty well.
Post by: AutomataKittay on June 20, 2011, 12:04:10 am
Post by: Rose on June 20, 2011, 12:23:29 am
As for stockpiles, if you refer to items in them, they are not currently supported.
Post by: AutomataKittay on June 20, 2011, 12:58:42 am
yeah, during version 0.31.18, peterix was busy, and by the time he was back, a new version was out.
As for stockpiles, if you refer to items in them, they are not currently supported.
Naa, not the items in them, just the designation. Would be neat to see all the items around, but horribly cluttered I'd imagine :D
Thanks for letting me know!
Post by: therahedwig on June 20, 2011, 09:08:16 am
No problem. I personally want to make sure the stones are unique looking.Damnit, now I feel bad that I didn't stick around more.
Didn't know about the boulder-differentiation either... :(
Grim Dark is still inprogress(At the metamorphics now, still) I just haven't played a lot of dwarf fortress lately due to a lovely combination of three things: 1) school 2)doing spritework proffesionally as well 3) computer troubles.
I'll be updating grimdark in the summer holidays though :)
Haha, hope you don't mind me playing around with your pack. I really like the style, but was kinda disappointed with how little it applied to. I've since made all previously unsupported stones use a combination of the Igneous and Ore sprites, though. Works pretty well.
My biggest problem up till now are actually the ramps. They're a pain to make for one stonetype, but I have to at the least make them for the rough stones and the constructed ones. Then combine this with the fact that there's a huge amount of stones...
(hell, I'm not even going to pretend that I'll make them for the gems.)
If anyone wants to help out, just doing the nasty copy-pasting bits with the ramps would already be a life-saver.
EDIT: have a preview of the meta-morphics:
(http://img.ie/11557.png)
Post by: Vaugher on June 21, 2011, 12:20:18 am
Post by: ignatzami on June 21, 2011, 09:11:25 am
Post by: Rose on June 21, 2011, 10:53:52 am
Post by: Caldfir on June 22, 2011, 02:59:24 pm
I've been running this fort for quite some time now, and most creatures that have visited my map are permanently shown encircling the map edge. There are also a number of creatures that were caged that are now stuck appearing wherever they were caged. I would like to know if this is a known bug or if I've somehow screwed something up.
Also, if a workaround exists with some dfhack tools or something, let me know :)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on June 22, 2011, 03:21:20 pm
Post by: Caldfir on June 22, 2011, 05:28:49 pm
Post by: Jadael on June 22, 2011, 09:35:11 pm
Post by: EagleV on June 23, 2011, 01:59:27 pm
Code: [Select]
<or>
<NeighbourSameBuilding dir="North"/>
<NeighbourSameBuilding dir="South"/>
</or>
...while the bugged axles use this block:Code: [Select]
<or>
<NeighbourOfType dir="East" value="building_gear_assembly"/>
<NeighbourOfType dir="West" value="building_gear_assembly"/>
</or>
...Screenshot, with the lower axles working fine and the upper axles bugged:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm sorry if this has been reported already, I couldn't find anything.
Post by: Eldrick Tobin on June 23, 2011, 03:32:45 pm
Alright, cool, thanks for letting me know. I suspect it might be a DF bug that is only visible through stonesense related to caged creatures leaving the map.
Yes it is as if the (civilization) having (bought/not sold) critters just walks beyond the visible edge and lets everything go. Every now and then I blast them with Runesmith or DFCreatureManager to clear the ballast. Same goes for critter groups ... since sometimes that load of 'boring' deer is keeping back something more interesting taking their place.
Post by: aegisreflecto on June 23, 2011, 10:06:01 pm
Thanks.
Post by: EagleV on June 24, 2011, 02:53:55 am
I've read most of this thread, and I've tried to make stonesense 2.3 work with 31.25. I've updated memory.xml but it still hangs on connecting to df. People earlier in the thread have said it works with an updated xml file, what would be different with my setup that it wouldn't?
Thanks.
It worked for me only when I used this memory.xml (http://cloud.github.com/downloads/mikestewart/Overseer/Memory.xml) from the Overseer thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=63484.0).
Post by: Caldfir on June 24, 2011, 05:07:19 am
I've read most of this thread, and I've tried to make stonesense 2.3 work with 31.25. I've updated memory.xml but it still hangs on connecting to df. People earlier in the thread have said it works with an updated xml file, what would be different with my setup that it wouldn't?If you're running a newer version of windows, try running stonesense in administrator mode.
Thanks.
Post by: flomaster on June 24, 2011, 12:31:19 pm
But y u no update http://code.google.com/p/stonesense with new memory.xml?
Post by: ignatzami on June 24, 2011, 06:39:59 pm
Stonesense still won't run. I get the following error in the log:
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
DFhack exeption: SHM ACCESS DENIED
However dfunstuck runs fine if I click it.
Windows XP SP3
DF version 25
Post by: AO on June 28, 2011, 05:20:44 am
I'm sorry if this has been reported already, I couldn't find anything.It was here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg2278735#msg2278735).
Post by: EagleV on June 28, 2011, 05:42:24 am
I'm sorry if this has been reported already, I couldn't find anything.It was here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg2278735#msg2278735).
Thanks!
Post by: EPSIL0N on July 03, 2011, 06:51:46 pm
I can view the program's thumbnail image in the task bar and it is running, I press f9, it switches to a black thumbnail with some text and then switches to a green thumbnail which is probably the big empty field my dwarfs are in.
I was wondering if anyone has experienced this problem and knows the solution or has any ideas for how to go about troubleshooting and correcting it.
OS is Windows 7 -64 bit.
DF is 0.31.25 V9.2
Post by: Rose on July 03, 2011, 09:53:38 pm
Post by: EPSIL0N on July 04, 2011, 04:17:35 pm
It seems to be doing something strange like opening the window with it's top left corner in the bottom right corner of my monitor.
Solved by right clicking the thumbnail, choosing move and then hitting an arrow key before moving the mouse.
Post by: Kondator on July 06, 2011, 05:19:06 am
I had installed all the runtimes in the op minus the runtime that looks that works because is eliminated from the hosting
There are another solution?
Post by: DrKillPatient on July 12, 2011, 11:34:28 am
Post by: ignatzami on July 12, 2011, 11:58:04 am
Finally got SS to build correctly on Mint, but it causes DF to be extremely slow, and the visualizer itself is rather laggy. I can hear the sound stuttering too. Is anyone else having that problem?
I've never even tried on Mint, especially as I can't get it to run in Windows.
Post by: DrKillPatient on July 12, 2011, 02:32:57 pm
Post by: ignatzami on July 12, 2011, 03:26:02 pm
Mint's basically Ubuntu for most purposes. On the other hand, now it doesn't work at all after the first time. Just connecting indefinitely.
Check the log, I bet it's a shared memory exception when trying to access DFHack. I had the same issue, but nobody seems to have a solution.
Post by: DrKillPatient on July 12, 2011, 09:20:00 pm
Quote
DFhack exeption: Invalid memory access @0x8c3e368
That?
Post by: ignatzami on July 13, 2011, 09:55:25 am
QuoteDFhack exeption: Invalid memory access @0x8c3e368
That?
Mine was a different error, it's a page or so back. But yep, that's your problem. No clue how to fix it.
Post by: peterix on July 13, 2011, 02:57:52 pm
Your distro packagers and developers are crazy and decided that the user has to be protected at the cost of debugging ability. There's no whitelist for apps, just a big ON/OFF switch.
So, open /etc/sysctl.conf as root/with sudo and add those two lines:
Code: [Select]
kernel.randomize_va_space=0
kernel.yama.ptrace_scope=0This disables address space randomization (google ASLR for details) and enables debugging again.Reboot, those are kernel options.
Windows people:
Make sure your anti-malware tools don't block things silently (some do that). Try running stonesense as a different user (admin). Try moving it to a different folder.
There's a lot of security options in Windows, something you installed in the past might have flipped a few bits somewhere and then I probably won't be able to help you.
I don't know which exact MSVC redistributable the current release of Stonesense uses. There are multiple service-packs for some of the older ones, and having an older service-pack can lead to weird crashes... so make sure you have the latest ones.
The opening of the window way out of screen space is a mystery to me though. Unfortunately, none of my systems are able to run the windows stonesense, so I can't check.
Post by: ignatzami on July 13, 2011, 04:31:09 pm
OK. Guys with ubuntu-derivated linux distros:
Your distro packagers and developers are crazy and decided that the user has to be protected at the cost of debugging ability. There's no whitelist for apps, just a big ON/OFF switch.
So, open /etc/sysctl.conf as root/with sudo and add those two lines:Code: [Select]kernel.randomize_va_space=0This disables address space randomization (google ASLR for details) and enables debugging again.
kernel.yama.ptrace_scope=0
Reboot, those are kernel options.
Windows people:
Make sure your anti-malware tools don't block things silently (some do that). Try running stonesense as a different user (admin). Try moving it to a different folder.
There's a lot of security options in Windows, something you installed in the past might have flipped a few bits somewhere and then I probably won't be able to help you.
I don't know which exact MSVC redistributable the current release of Stonesense uses. There are multiple service-packs for some of the older ones, and having an older service-pack can lead to weird crashes... so make sure you have the latest ones.
The opening of the window way out of screen space is a mystery to me though. Unfortunately, none of my systems are able to run the windows stonesense, so I can't check.
Great points, and a ton of help. Any idea about this error in the Stonesense log:
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
DFhack exeption: SHM ACCESS DENIED
Post by: peterix on July 13, 2011, 05:49:41 pm
Stonesense launchedIt's accessing invalid memory or it was barred from accessing DF's memory entirely. The wording has changed in the newer dfhack versions to better decribe what memory address was accessed. Can't tell you anything more I'm afraid...
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
DFhack exeption: SHM ACCESS DENIED
Post by: ignatzami on July 14, 2011, 10:12:49 am
Stonesense launchedIt's accessing invalid memory or it was barred from accessing DF's memory entirely. The wording has changed in the newer dfhack versions to better decribe what memory address was accessed. Can't tell you anything more I'm afraid...
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
DFhack exeption: SHM ACCESS DENIED
No worries, that's more information then I've gotten yet. I'll try shutting down my security software to see if it works better.
Post by: Vherid on July 16, 2011, 10:41:04 pm
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2011, 12:40:28 pm
Spoiler: Try to spot something cool in this picture. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Truean on July 20, 2011, 12:55:45 pm
Spoiler: Try to spot something cool in this picture. (click to show/hide)
Everything?
Metal or obsidian tiles? Namely the obsidian wall tiles?
Post by: Andir on July 20, 2011, 02:25:13 pm
Post by: Vherid on July 20, 2011, 02:33:45 pm
Post by: KillHour on July 20, 2011, 07:31:30 pm
Post by: Greiger on July 20, 2011, 08:25:52 pm
As for what the values mean I have no idea. I just know what they do. But I think 0, 4 isn't unusual.
Theres that kinda map looking thing at top right, but it may just be a feature I never noticed before.
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2011, 08:50:40 pm
it's usually 200ms or something.
Post by: KillHour on July 20, 2011, 09:10:21 pm
it's the map read time.
it's usually 200ms or something.
Was this from updates in DF hack?
Post by: Thundercraft on July 20, 2011, 09:47:20 pm
it's the map read time.
it's usually 200ms or something.
Oooh! Does this mean that some of the code in Stonesense has been optimized to run faster? :o [crosses fingers] (The CPU & gfx overhead prevents me from using Stonesense very much...)
No, wait... Let me guess: You've been trying out the new integrated DFHack with Stonesense so it has more direct access to DF memory?
Post by: Rose on July 20, 2011, 10:25:10 pm
on the graphics side of things, it's still the bloated mess that it's been ever since I took over the project.
Post by: Dr. Hieronymous Alloy on July 22, 2011, 04:16:13 pm
Post by: Armeleon on July 23, 2011, 06:38:34 am
Post by: Rose on July 23, 2011, 06:56:29 am
I do all my testing with the sound-free version.
Post by: peterix on July 23, 2011, 07:07:15 am
Post by: Armeleon on July 23, 2011, 04:25:31 pm
Post by: Moogie on July 24, 2011, 05:06:13 pm
Are there any more up-to-date downloads available, or do I have to SVN-checkout to get the latest stuff with the grass? I hate installing programs for single-use purposes. :(
Post by: sebachile on July 25, 2011, 01:11:58 pm
I'm from Chile, and my english is not so good, so please, try to be nice :)
First of all: I was having this problem, unsolved for many users:
"This application has failed to start because the application configuration is incorrect. Reinstalling the application may fix this problem."
(stonesense slate 2.3, DF 31.25, and win XP)
The solution of the first post did not worked (replace memory.xml) and the other solutions of the wiki http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Utilities#Stonesense (http://df.magmawiki.com/index.php/DF2010:Utilities#Stonesense) (replace stonesense.exe, or dfhack.dll and the others .dll files) neither.
So, I restablished the original folder of stonesense (without the memory.xml and the other changed things), and I searched in the internet the same problem, but for not stonesense, and I discovered this post (in spanish) for the same problem, but in angry birds:
http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/9110656/Solucion-Angry-Birds-_no-se-pudo-iniciar-la-aplicacion____.html (http://www.taringa.net/posts/info/9110656/Solucion-Angry-Birds-_no-se-pudo-iniciar-la-aplicacion____.html)
so, the solution (worked for me) is the next:
First I installed this library:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/es-es/details.aspx?familyid=200B2FD9-AE1A-4A14-984D-389C36F85647&displaylang=es (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/es-es/details.aspx?familyid=200B2FD9-AE1A-4A14-984D-389C36F85647&displaylang=es)
and then, this:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/es-es/details.aspx?displaylang=es&FamilyID=766a6af7-ec73-40ff-b072-9112bab119c2#filelist (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/es-es/details.aspx?displaylang=es&FamilyID=766a6af7-ec73-40ff-b072-9112bab119c2#filelist)
Well, in the last url, I do not remember the specific file of the list (:P), so you should investigate which one is.
I hope this solution helps the people with the same problem as me.
(This is my first post)
bye~
*************
Looks like this solution is the same as in the first post:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
*************
I had to replace memory.xml after all.
Post by: Caldfir on July 25, 2011, 03:06:12 pm
I spent a while thoroughly confused about where people were getting those gorgeous new grass tiles, and it turns out there hasn't been an updated binary download since February.Does anyone involved in the project mind if I put a file up on the DFFD containing my current configuration of stonesense visuals? Would make setting that stuff up a simple drag-and-drop procedure for people who don't have familiarity with SVN for getting some of those visual tidbits.
Are there any more up-to-date downloads available, or do I have to SVN-checkout to get the latest stuff with the grass? I hate installing programs for single-use purposes. :(
Post by: Rose on July 25, 2011, 09:25:38 pm
Just keep in mind that we'll sue you for a few thousand times the amount you payed for the game.
Post by: buckets on July 25, 2011, 10:00:11 pm
Post by: Gruntathon on July 26, 2011, 02:11:40 am
"This application has failed to start because its side-by-side configuration is incorrect. Please see the application eent log for more detail."
What should I do?
Post by: Ter13 on July 27, 2011, 08:39:21 pm
After download, you need to open up dfhack. this will force it to download new memory offsets. Copy the memory.xml file from your dfhack directory into your stonesense directory. Now try connecting to the Dwarf Fortress process. This should work if your install is complete.
Post by: Tobel on July 28, 2011, 01:09:38 am
Thanks.
It seems to be doing something strange like opening the window with it's top left corner in the bottom right corner of my monitor.
Solved by right clicking the thumbnail, choosing move and then hitting an arrow key before moving the mouse.
I love you. Thanks.
Post by: Weaselcake on July 29, 2011, 03:54:08 pm
I usually play this with a human-fortress mod which changes a few things, including the models. It's kind of an eye-sore to see the same 3 human models waltzing around.
Post by: AO on July 29, 2011, 07:09:07 pm
I wish there was a human replacement pack I could download for this. :/Two pictures of Deon's humans are in the middle of thread:
I usually play this with a human-fortress mod which changes a few things, including the models. It's kind of an eye-sore to see the same 3 human models waltzing around.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1198590#msg1198590
(http://i43.tinypic.com/308xmjs.png)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1198800#msg1198800
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6f4dwm.png)
Anyway, there is no xml file for them. Someone will have to create it. Or maybe Deon have one, I don't know.
And here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg2278735#msg2278735) is improved current version, with skin, hair and profession coloring, but without special images for the most of professions.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24499639/DF.SS.humans.png)
Post by: Weaselcake on July 29, 2011, 09:16:51 pm
I wish there was a human replacement pack I could download for this. :/Two pictures of Deon's humans are in the middle of thread:
I usually play this with a human-fortress mod which changes a few things, including the models. It's kind of an eye-sore to see the same 3 human models waltzing around.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1198590#msg1198590
(http://i43.tinypic.com/308xmjs.png)
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1198800#msg1198800
(http://i43.tinypic.com/6f4dwm.png)
Anyway, there is no xml file for them. Someone will have to create it. Or maybe Deon have one, I don't know.
And here (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg2278735#msg2278735) is improved current version, with skin, hair and profession coloring, but without special images for the most of professions.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/24499639/DF.SS.humans.png)
I love you. And, how do I install these? I've been using the Lazy Newb Pack, so, it really has made me a lazy noob.
Post by: Caldfir on July 31, 2011, 11:46:08 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If something's not working send me a PM. Also, I'm still waiting to confirm redistribution of TheraHedwig's GrimDark stuff in a compilation like this is OK, but I've got no response in a week and people seem to want this thing.
Post by: Jadael on July 31, 2011, 04:17:19 pm
Post by: peterix on July 31, 2011, 04:43:41 pm
What are all those darkened areas in the first image, some sort of lighting system?Adventure mode field of vision.
Post by: therahedwig on July 31, 2011, 08:38:16 pm
Basically, all the graphics I make for stonesense are a gift to the df community. This means you can modify them and redistribute them if you want. However, I made this for the DF community, and would therefore like to ask people to only use the graphics I make for DF-related purposes. I do not want my stuff to show up in some isometric fantasy game that has little connection to dwarf fortress, nor would I want it to show up on some indie game development resources site.
This is mostly because I've not made the graphics for that purpose. It also devalues the amount of work I put into it as the value of the graphics were I to be paid for them is quite high.
Otherwise, spread the love :)
Post by: Weaselcake on July 31, 2011, 11:09:49 pm
Alright, ladies and gentlemen, may I present my compilation content pack (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4729). Instructions are included on the DFFD page:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If something's not working send me a PM. Also, I'm still waiting to confirm redistribution of TheraHedwig's GrimDark stuff in a compilation like this is OK, but I've got no response in a week and people seem to want this thing.
It... It's beautiful! How did I not know about any of these? D:
Post by: Caldfir on August 01, 2011, 05:08:47 am
Anyway, everything seems to be working now.
Post by: Rose on August 01, 2011, 05:42:01 am
Alright - it seems like somehow I left out index.txt (I feel pretty dumb right now :-[) from the uploaded file. I've fixed it and re-uploaded just now. Thanks to Weaselcake for contacting me promptly.
Anyway, everything seems to be working now.
you may as well also include stonesense.exe, as that's needed for the multi-tile trees.
Post by: KaelGotDwarves on August 01, 2011, 05:47:50 am
Alright, ladies and gentlemen, may I present my compilation content pack (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4729). Instructions are included on the DFFD page:Holy hell, that's really sexy. Some of the colours are a bit strange but still.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If something's not working send me a PM. Also, I'm still waiting to confirm redistribution of TheraHedwig's GrimDark stuff in a compilation like this is OK, but I've got no response in a week and people seem to want this thing.
Thanks for the fine work, team.
Post by: Rose on August 01, 2011, 05:50:05 am
also bugs.
also I have a life.
Post by: Weaselcake on August 01, 2011, 07:00:02 am
Post by: Rose on August 01, 2011, 07:03:25 am
it isn't hard, just needs lots of drawing.
Post by: Darth_Karl on August 01, 2011, 01:21:39 pm
I can't get this great looking tool to work. With the default memmory.xml it just sits there, and the log says it couldn't find the DF process.
With the modfied memmory.xml it crashes as soon as i try to load it up with the following error:
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: Stonesense.exe
Application Version: 0.0.0.0
Application Timestamp: 4d79a94c
Fault Module Name: MSVCR80.dll
Fault Module Version: 8.0.50727.6195
Fault Module Timestamp: 4dcddbf3
Exception Code: 40000015
Exception Offset: 000046b4
OS Version: 6.0.6002.2.2.0.768.3
Locale ID: 2057
Additional Information 1: 9ce9
Additional Information 2: 7c9eef8c5f8944bc21d35958388d54c8
Additional Information 3: bdf1
Additional Information 4: b8ad9f80cdc41bf0afe6c111f6a1d4be
I'm running Vista, (yeha i know :(), and have put exception in all protection prgrams as well as used the run as administrator option on an admin account, still no joy.
Post by: Caldfir on August 01, 2011, 02:03:48 pm
you may as well also include stonesense.exe, as that's needed for the multi-tile trees.
if anybody's wondering, the reason this hasn't been officially released is because the grass tends to hide everything, and the trees look rather weird.
Yeah, I would agree that while it makes pretty scenery screenshots, with the updated grass and trees it DOES become challenging if you want to look around your fort for your dwarves or something. There ends up being a lot on the screen, and it can feel a bit like wheres waldo. I typically switch the grass off if I'm not planning on taking any screenshots, because it makes everything easier to see. Especially terrain height changes.
Post by: Black_Legion on August 01, 2011, 07:27:02 pm
you may as well also include stonesense.exe, as that's needed for the multi-tile trees.
Ah, yeah, I remember that now that you say it. I was trying not to include too much stuff and making people not download the official release first... although I suppose that's technically still true. Re-uploading again.if anybody's wondering, the reason this hasn't been officially released is because the grass tends to hide everything, and the trees look rather weird.
Yeah, I would agree that while it makes pretty scenery screenshots, with the updated grass and trees it DOES become challenging if you want to look around your fort for your dwarves or something. There ends up being a lot on the screen, and it can feel a bit like wheres waldo. I typically switch the grass off if I'm not planning on taking any screenshots, because it makes everything easier to see. Especially terrain height changes.
I found that if you copy and paste the files you provided into an existing, unzipped Slate 2.3 folder and all of the features you would expect show up. Just let the OS overwrite the files and it seems to work quite nicely.
Post by: Caldfir on August 01, 2011, 07:36:43 pm
I found that if you copy and paste the files you provided into an existing, unzipped Slate 2.3 folder and all of the features you would expect show up. Just let the OS overwrite the files and it seems to work quite nicely.
Yeah I found the same thing myself as well. I'm sticking with the file version without the stonesense executable, because I don't want people downloading this without first coming to this thread or the stonesense project page. People can get really confused if there are multiple available versions of a program available for download and I want to avoid that.
Also, I would like to direct people to the stonesense screenshot thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=48172.0). I would really like to see more people's forts and adventures :)
Post by: Black_Legion on August 02, 2011, 04:35:19 am
I found that if you copy and paste the files you provided into an existing, unzipped Slate 2.3 folder and all of the features you would expect show up. Just let the OS overwrite the files and it seems to work quite nicely.
Yeah I found the same thing myself as well. I'm sticking with the file version without the stonesense executable, because I don't want people downloading this without first coming to this thread or the stonesense project page. People can get really confused if there are multiple available versions of a program available for download and I want to avoid that.
Also, I would like to direct people to the stonesense screenshot thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=48172.0). I would really like to see more people's forts and adventures :)
I figured that was the case. Hopefully anyone new could read here or in a readme and figure out that is what they should do. I also second the opinion that the stonesense screenshot thread needs a little more love, especially with the new graphics available.
Post by: sonny164 on August 02, 2011, 12:30:12 pm
I extracted the files in the .rar and updated the Memory.XML
and I still cant get passed the "connecting to DF" screen, then the program stops responding
Am I doing something wrong?
Post by: Andir on August 02, 2011, 02:39:27 pm
So I can't find any other solution to this
I extracted the files in the .rar and updated the Memory.XML
and I still cant get passed the "connecting to DF" screen, then the program stops responding
Am I doing something wrong?
You. Must. Have. A. Fortress. Loaded.?
The site picker is *NOT* a fortress. Embark, *then* try Stonesense.
?I've read most of this thread, and I've tried to make stonesense 2.3 work with 31.25. I've updated memory.xml but it still hangs on connecting to df. People earlier in the thread have said it works with an updated xml file, what would be different with my setup that it wouldn't?If you're running a newer version of windows, try running stonesense in administrator mode.
Thanks.
in the first post, there's a big orange 'try this if it doesn't work' section.
try that, then ask questions.
Actually, a lot of these possible solutions can be found if you type "connecting to DF" in that little box up top with the magnifying glass next to it then hit the search button.
Maybe you can help us and say what of those solutions (from the search) don't work for you?
Post by: grebote on August 02, 2011, 10:44:28 pm
Checking out the dump file, i get the following:
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: memory object not set: type offset key /string/MSVC/buffer
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: memory object not set: type offset key /string/MSVC/buffer
...(repeated for many lines)I am using the SDL version of DF 31.25 on Windows 7 64-bit (with all recent updates). I have tried updating the Memory.xml file in the OP to no success. I do have a fortress loaded when I open the program. I have tried it while logged on as the administrator. Other than the xml file, I have not changed anything since DLing it from the LNP. Someone had this problem many pages ago but it didn't appear to be solved, and it sounds like I am not the only one with this problem. Anyway I'd like to be able to use this program since it looks awesome and a ton of work has gone into it.
If anyone has a work-around I'd love to hear about it!
Post by: Darth_Karl on August 07, 2011, 06:43:37 am
Don't copy past the text from the memory.xml link into your own memory.xml file by hand. Instead right click the link in the OP and choose save as. Then overwrite the existing memory.xml file with the newly downloaded one.
Post by: DrWhoFan82 on August 08, 2011, 07:14:28 pm
Post by: Rose on August 08, 2011, 07:25:51 pm
Any idea when stonesense will be ready for .31.25?
About two weeks after 0.31.25 is released.
Post by: DrWhoFan82 on August 09, 2011, 06:48:28 am
I can't get stonesense to work. It's my first time playing DF. This is what I get when I run SS
Code: [Select]
Stonesense launched
Using allegro version 5.0.0 r1
No Dwarf Fortress executable found
DFhack exeption: couldn't find a suitable processI have SS in a sub folder of the DF folder.Some help please?
Post by: Caldfir on August 09, 2011, 10:42:20 am
Post by: DrWhoFan82 on August 09, 2011, 12:00:41 pm
Windows 7
DF .31.21
and SS 2.3
running as admin didn't work. :(
Post by: Graebeard on August 09, 2011, 01:07:56 pm
Post by: DrWhoFan82 on August 09, 2011, 04:06:18 pm
Post by: Graebeard on August 09, 2011, 11:17:49 pm
Post by: Jadael on August 10, 2011, 12:56:48 am
Post by: Mrhnhrm on August 13, 2011, 12:36:27 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also tried to use DFHack header files that came bundled with Stonesense source. The only difference it makes is that the first error message from compiler does not appear, the three other errors still occur. Thanks in advance.
Post by: Rose on August 13, 2011, 12:43:38 pm
Your best bet is to wait a few days, when the new DFhack will be released with stonesense.
Post by: Thulen on August 13, 2011, 10:35:30 pm
So i was messing with keyboard keys and found some keys that stonesense use to toggle things, is there a list anywhere of all of them ? cause i seemed to have locked my camera at -15,0,0 wich isnt quite the center anymore :-[
Post by: Rose on August 14, 2011, 11:10:23 pm
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166
Post by: Greiger on August 19, 2011, 08:02:05 pm
*Debug mode seems to be identifying tile materiel as IRON pretty much wherever it is. Odd but doesn't seem to actually effect anything visually with debug off.
*It runs great when run the first time in a DFHack session. Blazing fast, but once closed and then reopened in a single DFHack session it runs very slowly.
And not so much a bug but a little visual option request. I liked the old style of having unexplored areas blacked out by default. I figure underground constructions do look better this way, but I have trouble picking out individual z-levels in busy hallway filled areas, any chance of an init option for how it displays unexplored areas on start up?
Despite those that's a great bit of work, I'm especially surprised you got engravings working how they do, I wasn't aware that info was even IN the memory data.
Post by: Vherid on August 20, 2011, 10:28:03 am
*It runs great when run the first time in a DFHack session. Blazing fast, but once closed and then reopened in a single DFHack session it runs very slowly.
Yeah, I can confirm that too.
Post by: Komra on August 25, 2011, 01:19:10 pm
EDIT- save transfer works fine, so the only current problem is a nonstandard one dealing with virtual machines. So it works just fine if you want to visualize and you're on a mac.(as long as you have a pc as well)
Post by: Rose on August 26, 2011, 12:25:31 am
*It runs great when run the first time in a DFHack session. Blazing fast, but once closed and then reopened in a single DFHack session it runs very slowly.
Yeah, I can confirm that too.
resizing the stonesense window fixes this. I have no idea why this happens.
Post by: Gabriel A. Zorrilla on August 28, 2011, 08:41:50 pm
Running on 31.25, linux, thanks to peterix and dfhack + stonesense.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-e5VvUUivMsU/TlrtRO4l1zI/AAAAAAAAAN4/Z8WgkHPbaO0/1314581827674.png)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-KWLsBlCd1CY/Tlrtb7McDnI/AAAAAAAAAN8/YUxTr3noyZ4/1314581870665.png)
Any tip? Thanks!
Post by: peterix on August 28, 2011, 08:51:10 pm
Hi there. I cant see my stockpiles!https://github.com/peterix/stonesense/blob/master/README.txt
Running on 31.25, linux, thanks to peterix and dfhack + stonesense.
Any tip? Thanks!
Use the 'U' key. It won't show the stored items, but at least it's something. Note that the readme file is a bit outdated. All the stuff about dfunstuck is obsolete and the 'whole map screenshot' function is currently disabled.
Post by: gazj on September 12, 2011, 05:26:07 am
Code: [Select]
cmake .. -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE:string=Release
CMake Error at CMakeLists.txt:177 (DFHACK_PLUGIN):
Unknown CMake command "DFHACK_PLUGIN".
CMake Warning (dev) in CMakeLists.txt:
No cmake_minimum_required command is present. A line of code such as
cmake_minimum_required(VERSION 2.8)
should be added at the top of the file. The version specified may be lower
if you wish to support older CMake versions for this project. For more
information run "cmake --help-policy CMP0000".
This warning is for project developers. Use -Wno-dev to suppress it.
-- Configuring incomplete, errors occurred!
Please help
Post by: peterix on September 13, 2011, 09:01:00 pm
Hi Guys, really struggling to compile on Arch Linux.Hello :)
Please help
Stonesense is now a plugin for DFHack, so you need to build it as part of it. First, if you're building on a 64bit Arch, you *need* multilib gcc/g++. (In general, distros with no 32bit support are useless here)
Here's how to do it (starting in some kind of 'projects' directory):
Code: [Select]
git clone git://github.com/peterix/dfhack.git # read only repo @ https://github.com/peterix/dfhack
cd dfhack # step into the new directory
git submodule init # set up the stonesense submodule
git submodule update # and fetch it from read only repo @ https://github.com/peterix/stonesense
cd build
ccmake .. # manual version of cmake. It's important to set CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX to a DF folder and to enable building stonesense. first 'configure', then 'generate'. You need to rerun 'configure' after any changes to the options.
make
make install # install to whatever place you set CMAKE_INSTALL_PREFIX to beBy default, the build system has its own pre-built copy of the allegro 5 libraries. After you enable building stonesense and 'configure', some more options should show up in ccmake. The one usable on Linux is STONESENSE_INTERNAL_SO. Setting this to 'OFF' will make the build system use your system allegro 5 libs. This isn't normally needed, but if you want to work on stonesense and use the debug version of allegro, you'll have to do it. lib32-allegro5 is in the AUR.
Post by: gazj on September 14, 2011, 04:50:47 am
Arch Linux dfhack-git package
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=35350
@peterix - 2 issues
1. When using your allegro from git I get an error that the stonesense plugin cannot be loaded.
2. When using arch's own allegro5 library all works, until I try to maximise the stonesense window, then the whole dfhack process falls over with no output.
Can I help with these problems at all?
Post by: Rose on September 14, 2011, 04:52:48 am
It's moved over to Git.
Post by: peterix on September 14, 2011, 05:21:26 am
Ok have managed to build it. I have updated the dfhack-git package in the Arch Linux aur and have notfified the maintainer of the stonesense-svn package of the new situation. I do not have a 64 bit machine, so I welcome any input on 64 bit problems.Cool stuff. The build system should be set up so that it always builds in 32-bit mode. In case of Arch the dependencies will be different between 64bit and 32bit - where on 32bit you'd get libpng12, 64bit needs lib32-libpng12, etc.
Arch Linux dfhack-git package
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=35350
1. When using your allegro from git I get an error that the stonesense plugin cannot be loaded.Look at stderr.log - it contains some more details about errors. It's probably a missing library though. I'm building the allegro libs with slightly older libpng so that it works on other distros. You might be missing libpng12.
2. When using arch's own allegro5 library all works, until I try to maximise the stonesense window, then the whole dfhack process falls over with no output.That sounds like something out of my control... possibly display driver problems or an allegro problem. What graphics hardware do you have and which driver do you use with it? It works fine for me with the proprietary nvidia ones and a 9600GT card. The nouveau drivers can't do alpha transparency on the sprites and leave the screen mostly black though.
I also suspect that there are some more crasher bugs still crawling in stonesense... I just don't have the range of hardware I'd need to fix them...
Post by: gazj on September 14, 2011, 10:14:18 am
Ok, have worked out the problem with point 2
The default arch linux package does not have user write permissions in the default df directory. When I give my user account write permission to the df directory fullscreen works with out any problem at all. With the default permissions none of the log files can be created! I take it this a problem for stonesense seeing as Stonesense.log appears to keep a list of resolutions.
This could be a mod for the maintainer of the dwarf fortress package, although I am sure they would like to keep it read only and only the data directory write permissions.
Can Stonesense.log be written to the data directory?
I am also running the nvidia binary driver just to let you know on a GeForce 7800 GT
on point 2
Arch uses libpng 1.4 by default so I am just about to install the libpng12 package to see what the outcome is. Will keep you posted. Would you prefer me to package it with you allegro? I guess it helps you with bug reporting etc?
EDIT: Working with your allegro guess it was the need for libpng12
Lastly stonesense seems much much quicker than when I last tried it on my modest hardware. Not sure what the improvements have been but well done :)
Post by: Rose on September 14, 2011, 11:03:26 am
Lastly stonesense seems much much quicker than when I last tried it on my modest hardware. Not sure what the improvements have been but well done :)
That's from a very aggressive cully algorithm that I wrote.
Still a bit overenthusiastic, though, but you can turn it off if it gets bugged.
Post by: gazj on September 14, 2011, 01:52:41 pm
P4 @ 3000Mhz with hyper threading
Nvidia Ge-Force 7800 GT with 512MB Ram
1.5 GB Ram
Post by: peterix on September 16, 2011, 07:42:15 am
Hmm... Actually, we can hook any library call. Maybe DF could be made more packaging friendly in general by hooking calls to open() and rediecting them. Not saying I'd do it though. I've got plenty on my plate already. It's probably better to talk to Toady and Baughn about such stuff :)
Still, something is buggy and falls over when the logs aren't writable. That's the problem that needs fixing IMHO.
Post by: Komra on September 16, 2011, 01:56:50 pm
Stonesense is now a plugin for DFHack, so you need to build it as part of it...OK, HOW DID I MISS THAT? explains my epic fail at getting it to work ::)
Post by: gazj on September 16, 2011, 02:36:28 pm
The place it should really go I guess if here. It should really be written to the path stored in this variable $XDG_CONFIG_HOME
Information here http://standards.freedesktop.org/basedir-spec/basedir-spec-latest.html
I guess windows has some equivelent that by default goes to X:\Documents and settings\USERNAME\etc\etc (<-- Going from memory haven't used windows for ages)
I can see the advantage of keeping it in the df bundle especially for the devs as release cycles are so frequent and for windows users, altho if I used windows I would personally still move the folder to Program Files, no doubt this would cause me problems with permissions again.
Post by: peterix on September 16, 2011, 03:14:56 pm
Just grab the dfhack binary release. It has stonesense in it.Stonesense is now a plugin for DFHack, so you need to build it as part of it...OK, HOW DID I MISS THAT? explains my epic fail at getting it to work ::)
Post by: Cheshire Cat on September 27, 2011, 04:55:20 am
I have a strange problem, when I run stonesense the program opens but the window doesn't have a physical presence.
I can view the program's thumbnail image in the task bar and it is running, I press f9, it switches to a black thumbnail with some text and then switches to a green thumbnail which is probably the big empty field my dwarfs are in.
I was wondering if anyone has experienced this problem and knows the solution or has any ideas for how to go about troubleshooting and correcting it.
OS is Windows 7 -64 bit.
DF is 0.31.25 V9.2
i have this problem. japa replied to read back a few pages for the solution, so i read the previous 10 pages without finding a solution. or, more likely, it was there but i could not recognize it.
also, despite what most of the people posting here seem to think, it is not simple or easy to get stonesense updated from all the disparate sources you seem to need to get files from. as someone who has never done anything remotely like this before, most of this thread is completely incomprehensible, and anything i find that i can understand seems to be out of date a few pages later. packs like this one http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4729 seem extremely helpful, but without being able to first find, and then understand the solutions to problems like the one above im not going to get stonesense running.
i have now spent an hour and a half reading this thread and following most of the links to places like the DF wiki, and getting stonesense running is exactly as out of reach as before i started. is there an FAQ or something i can visit that can get me past all the very basic problems i am likely to encounter for which solutions exist, preferably written so that someone who is mentally subnormal can understand it? i love this program, but with my level of computer literacy i am never goint to be able to find or understand solutions to the problems i am experiencing the way the solutions are currently organized.
Post by: Andir on September 27, 2011, 07:43:40 am
Start here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.5070I have a strange problem, when I run stonesense the program opens but the window doesn't have a physical presence.
I can view the program's thumbnail image in the task bar and it is running, I press f9, it switches to a black thumbnail with some text and then switches to a green thumbnail which is probably the big empty field my dwarfs are in.
I was wondering if anyone has experienced this problem and knows the solution or has any ideas for how to go about troubleshooting and correcting it.
OS is Windows 7 -64 bit.
DF is 0.31.25 V9.2
i have this problem. japa replied to read back a few pages for the solution, so i read the previous 10 pages without finding a solution. or, more likely, it was there but i could not recognize it.
But this is probably what you want:
Whenever I need to move a window that's in a bad spot ... I need to select move, nudge it one pixel with my keyboard, then move the mouse to get the window movement to "link" to the mouse cursor. If I do not use the keyboard, the window will never detect my mouse position and never move.
Post by: Beeskee on September 28, 2011, 10:06:42 pm
Post by: Rose on September 28, 2011, 10:08:13 pm
I miss the full-fort screenshot ability. :(
so do I. :(
I miss having time as well. :(
Post by: Greiger on September 30, 2011, 08:33:43 pm
I was going to ask a question, but ended up figuring it out (when the tissue is names "scales" telling stonesense to use "scale" for coloration seems to result in the technicolor dream fort. Er well it is supposed to, but not in that way.)
I did have an epiphany though. I always wondered why old sprite games often used a purple hue to identify black.
Spoiler: I think I figured out why (click to show/hide)
Well that will be fun to figure out how to get around.
And don't worry Japa, we still love you. And hopefully you got a little chuckle over my amateur spriting mistake.
Post by: Rose on September 30, 2011, 08:46:33 pm
I'll add it to the list of things to do when I get back to coding.
Post by: Greiger on September 30, 2011, 08:57:23 pm
Post by: Rose on September 30, 2011, 09:00:52 pm
I can just take color and fix it.
Post by: Rose on September 30, 2011, 09:06:17 pm
There's a file in the data folder of DF that has the colors that go with the color names.
find black in there and make it something other than pitch black.
Post by: Greiger on September 30, 2011, 09:13:49 pm
Now to pick a color...hmm. FF4 chocobo black or dust covered external hard drive black...decisions...
Post by: Rose on September 30, 2011, 09:15:40 pm
It gets them from the DF memory.
yes, DF stores the actual colors that your creatures are, but doesn't use them.
Post by: Cheshire Cat on October 01, 2011, 10:34:31 pm
Start here: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.5070I have a strange problem, when I run stonesense the program opens but the window doesn't have a physical presence.
I can view the program's thumbnail image in the task bar and it is running, I press f9, it switches to a black thumbnail with some text and then switches to a green thumbnail which is probably the big empty field my dwarfs are in.
I was wondering if anyone has experienced this problem and knows the solution or has any ideas for how to go about troubleshooting and correcting it.
OS is Windows 7 -64 bit.
DF is 0.31.25 V9.2
i have this problem. japa replied to read back a few pages for the solution, so i read the previous 10 pages without finding a solution. or, more likely, it was there but i could not recognize it.
But this is probably what you want:Whenever I need to move a window that's in a bad spot ... I need to select move, nudge it one pixel with my keyboard, then move the mouse to get the window movement to "link" to the mouse cursor. If I do not use the keyboard, the window will never detect my mouse position and never move.
no, thats definately not the solution to my problem. for the sake of clarity i have communicated my grievance using the medium of interpretive dance, and posted the result on imageshack.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
as you can see, i am also getting the error message "cannot load font:DejaVuSans.tff" when i try messing around with my tiny windows 7 preview window. searching the thread i find others with this error message when compiling their own versions of stonesense, but i cannot understand those discussions and they do not seem to pertain to just running the allready compiled vanilla version off the first post. i definately have the font installed, i reinstalled it twice from different sources, and i used it to type comments in the above image.
Post by: Andir on October 02, 2011, 12:23:55 am
Post by: Cheshire Cat on October 02, 2011, 12:55:52 am
In Windows 7/Vista you have to hold Alt or Shift (can't remember right now, don't have Windows box running to check) then right click the taskbar item to get the move option.
ah! it is shift. i am so grateful. i had no idea what was going on, and did not realize stonesense was running fine, just one full computer screen down and to the right. getting the stonesense window into my screen is still a pain though, and after multiple tries it still feels like witchdoctory. i need to hold shift, right click stonesense on the taskbar, select move then bash the up and left keys for ages. the window still does not appear, but if i select move again, then click and hold the mouse i get the very top edge of it and can finally drag it into view. it feels unreliable and stupid, but i at least can get stonesense running now, which is the first time since 40d.
much thanks.
Post by: Weaselcake on October 11, 2011, 03:34:25 pm
Alright, ladies and gentlemen, may I present my compilation content pack (http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=4729). Instructions are included on the DFFD page:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If something's not working send me a PM. Also, I'm still waiting to confirm redistribution of TheraHedwig's GrimDark stuff in a compilation like this is OK, but I've got no response in a week and people seem to want this thing.
I know this is an older post but this now just removes all objects for me now. (doors, beds, chairs, workshops, etc) :(
Post by: Rose on October 17, 2011, 09:36:38 pm
Spoiler: Good news. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on October 17, 2011, 10:09:59 pm
Post by: Vherid on October 17, 2011, 11:44:57 pm
To those of you who were complaining about some features being removed from stonesense, I have...Spoiler: Good news. (click to show/hide)
What the fuck in god's green earth is that thing.
Post by: Truean on October 18, 2011, 02:11:16 am
Post by: Sabin Stargem on October 18, 2011, 02:55:53 am
Post by: Andir on October 18, 2011, 08:35:29 pm
Post by: Graebeard on October 18, 2011, 11:17:37 pm
To those of you who were complaining about some features being removed from stonesense, I have...Spoiler: Good news. (click to show/hide)
What the fuck in god's green earth is that thing.
That thing is Skyscrapes (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=53814.msg1154282#msg1154282).
Post by: MaximumZero on October 19, 2011, 01:09:44 am
Post by: Kogut on October 19, 2011, 01:51:58 am
Why are there flying donkeys!?Bugs.
Post by: peterix on October 19, 2011, 07:44:44 am
It's mules. For some reason, the game has invisible mules floating around. I have no idea why... I guess we'll have to find out what makes them invisible in the game eventually. For now, enjoy the weirdness :)Why are there flying donkeys!?Bugs.
Post by: Mike Mayday on October 19, 2011, 10:11:02 am
Post by: Aisher on October 25, 2011, 09:09:56 pm
If the application fails to launch (version 2.1 only) ("The application failed to initialize properly (0xc0150002)"), you might be missing some runtimes. This should really only happen if Windows update hasn't run in ages or for any other reason is many years outdated. You can try downloading the Visual Studio runtimes from Microsoft:
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Redistributable Package (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=32BC1BEE-A3F9-4C13-9C99-220B62A191EE&displaylang=en) (2.6MB)
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 SP1 Redistributable Package (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=200B2FD9-AE1A-4A14-984D-389C36F85647&displaylang=en) (2.6MB)
NB! Some people have noted that the second package works better from this source, put up by
Actually it worked for me only after i install this one -
http://www.microsoft.com/download/en/details.aspx?id=14431
Microsoft Visual C++ 2005 Service Pack 1 Redistributable Package ATL Security Update
Post by: Greiger on October 30, 2011, 10:36:13 pm
It's hard to explain but here's an example. My current fortress, with a roof under construction.
Spoiler: Z+0 most everything is visible (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Z+1 the roof is being built 1 z level above. (click to show/hide)
Still love the return of full embark screenshots though, I missed that. Thanks Japa! :)
P.S. This is the version that was recently released with the new DFHack
Post by: Rose on October 30, 2011, 10:43:59 pm
Just press 'o' to get them back.
Post by: Greiger on October 30, 2011, 10:46:34 pm
Post by: arclance on October 31, 2011, 05:23:13 pm
Could it be because it is a (if I remember correctely) 4x3 embark?
Screenshot 1 (http://sta.sh/04emtco)
Screenshot 2 (http://sta.sh/04emu8y)
Post by: Rose on October 31, 2011, 09:06:40 pm
That's going on my todo list.
Post by: flamewolf393 on November 05, 2011, 10:13:31 pm
Post by: flamewolf393 on November 05, 2011, 11:26:39 pm
Post by: peterix on November 05, 2011, 11:37:38 pm
It says connecting to Dwarf Fortress, and not only does it not do anything after that, it then lags my computer so badly that the only thing that works is the mouse (and that barely). Even ctr-alt-del is not working. I had to hard power my laptop, which as we all know is a terrible thing for a laptop. wtf is going on and how do I fix it, because I was really looking forward to using it.Well. Whatever version you have is pretty old. You can try fixing it by getting an update memory.xml file: https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/legacy/Memory.xml (save as, rewrite the original one)
Alternatively, you can get the current DFHack release (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166), which includes a much newer version of Stonesense along with a lot of other stuff.
Post by: flamewolf393 on November 06, 2011, 12:51:23 am
It says connecting to Dwarf Fortress, and not only does it not do anything after that, it then lags my computer so badly that the only thing that works is the mouse (and that barely). Even ctr-alt-del is not working. I had to hard power my laptop, which as we all know is a terrible thing for a laptop. wtf is going on and how do I fix it, because I was really looking forward to using it.Well. Whatever version you have is pretty old. You can try fixing it by getting an update memory.xml file: https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/raw/legacy/Memory.xml (save as, rewrite the original one)
Alternatively, you can get the current DFHack release (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166), which includes a much newer version of Stonesense along with a lot of other stuff.
Its not an old version, I literally just downloaded it yesterday from the link at the top of this forum. And when I click on the link you just gave me for the memory file, it does not download anything, it just brings up a new tab with a few hundred lines of programming code or html or something.
Post by: Rose on November 06, 2011, 12:57:01 am
Post by: Graebeard on November 06, 2011, 04:42:05 am
Post by: Luiz on November 12, 2011, 02:58:39 pm
Post by: Korenn on November 12, 2011, 03:30:15 pm
I'm with a problem: I can't run the stonesense in the menu utilities of the Lazy Newb Pack, I run it, but it doens't appear and nothing happens. I need of the NET Framework installed to work? or is another thing?that's old. it now runs as a part of df hack.
Has anyone found a solution to the constant disconnects from DF? I've found other people complaining about it in this thread, but there was never any answer or acknowledgement.
It's especially annoying with dfhack refusing to restart stonesense after closing it, saying it already runs. Means that after each disconnect, I have to save and completely restart DF to get a ssense view.
Post by: peterix on November 13, 2011, 12:14:57 am
Has anyone found a solution to the constant disconnects from DF? I've found other people complaining about it in this thread, but there was never any answer or acknowledgement.What? Haven't heard of that problem before.
It's especially annoying with dfhack refusing to restart stonesense after closing it, saying it already runs. Means that after each disconnect, I have to save and completely restart DF to get a ssense view.
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2011, 12:31:07 am
Post by: Kogut on November 13, 2011, 12:14:29 pm
it's really irresponsibleWhy?
Post by: Rose on November 13, 2011, 12:37:58 pm
Post by: Korenn on November 15, 2011, 03:53:38 pm
I've found a few posts in this thread talking about it, but remembering the exact google search query is hard ;)Has anyone found a solution to the constant disconnects from DF? I've found other people complaining about it in this thread, but there was never any answer or acknowledgement.What? Haven't heard of that problem before.
It's especially annoying with dfhack refusing to restart stonesense after closing it, saying it already runs. Means that after each disconnect, I have to save and completely restart DF to get a ssense view.
There's one here, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1221738#msg1221738 which suggests 'restart stonesense' as the only solution.
Normally that's fine, but that advice was pre-dfhack and when it's disconnected like that, df-hack refuses to restart it with the message 'stonesense already running' after the stonesense window has been closed. I imagine that means it's not being shut down properly.
Post by: peterix on November 15, 2011, 04:23:40 pm
I've found a few posts in this thread talking about it, but remembering the exact google search query is hard ;)
There's one here, http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.msg1221738#msg1221738 which suggests 'restart stonesense' as the only solution.
Normally that's fine, but that advice was pre-dfhack and when it's disconnected like that, df-hack refuses to restart it with the message 'stonesense already running' after the stonesense window has been closed. I imagine that means it's not being shut down properly.
Well. The difference is that stonesense is running inside DF now. So when stuff goes bad in it, it should catch the error and shut down properly. It apparently stops working, but is nice enough not to crash everything else. Hmm.
Can you post the log files when this happens? (should be in DF folder, ending in .log)
Post by: Korenn on November 15, 2011, 04:36:36 pm
Well. The difference is that stonesense is running inside DF now. So when stuff goes bad in it, it should catch the error and shut down properly. It apparently stops working, but is nice enough not to crash everything else. Hmm.I'll look definitely have a look for the log the next time this happens.
Can you post the log files when this happens? (should be in DF folder, ending in .log)
details I should have added before:
I'm using DF 0.31.25 with Phoebus' graphics pack (started from LNP). The latest dfhack is installed. Only other tool being used is Dwarf Therapist. Running on windows vista.
The exact problem:
Stonesense runs and displays fine. occasionally, at seemingly random points, it will stop updating from DF. At that point, it can still display and scroll fine, but will no longer get new game data, nor will the follow function do anything. If that occurs and I close the stonesense window and then try to restart it, it fails with the message 'stonesense already running'.
which log files exactly? I see a stonesense.log, but the rest appears to be unrelated.
Post by: Korenn on November 15, 2011, 09:31:48 pm
Stonesense.log:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I reckon that's not very useful... ;) do I need to run it in some debug mode?
Post by: Romaq on November 26, 2011, 04:33:25 am
I make a 13 x 16 embark, then start Stonesense Felsite(3.1)... it works. I start adding levels (Stonesense increase z-depth buffer), and as I do so DF's memory climbs (I expect as it's a DLL within DF now). I hit the 'almost 2G limit' by adding levels in Stonesense, the whole works blows up.
Would it be possible to throw a check for "I won't let you add levels 'cause I'm close to blowing up memory"" on increasing z-depth?
On your next 'major revision' branch of StoneSense, would it be possible to make the '.dll' side of it a very 'thin' server with a 'client' running in a separate memory address from DF? I think the DLL approach is fantastic, I really like what you did with SS Felsite. Other than having to share that "tiny" 2G memory space with DF, this is fantastic.
A 13 x 13 embark works. I look forward to seeing what 'screenshot the entire fortress' cranks out when it's working again... if my memory abuse doesn't blow it up. :)
Post by: lopocozo on December 14, 2011, 08:35:46 am
Also, will build 0.31.25 work with this or no, because mine can`t seem to connect.
Post by: Rose on December 14, 2011, 08:44:13 am
Once dfhack is installed, you run it by typing stonesense in the DFhack console.
Post by: lopocozo on December 14, 2011, 08:55:54 am
Post by: peterix on December 14, 2011, 10:48:40 am
Is DFHack absoloutlely nessecary? I know if I get it ill probably use the hacks all the time and ruin the game and im to lazy to do it anyway.Then go into the plugins folder and delete what you don't want to use. Just keep stonesense.plug.dll
Post by: Rose on December 14, 2011, 08:21:41 pm
Is DFHack absoloutlely nessecary?
Yes. Much like having one of either windows or linux. It's a system requirement.
Post by: knight133 on December 24, 2011, 06:42:59 pm
Post by: Rose on December 24, 2011, 07:29:21 pm
Post by: buckets on December 25, 2011, 03:51:54 am
Post by: Rose on December 25, 2011, 07:04:51 am
Although I am sad that this is kinda dead now, Japa's last few posts on this thread have made me lol heartily.
Happy to entertain. I just wish I had more free time.
Post by: Iceco on January 04, 2012, 03:21:12 pm
Post by: Jaylow on January 18, 2012, 02:58:38 pm
would it be possible to let stone-sense follow one dwarf, or a few dwarf on split screens?
so that we could see what they are up to
i asked around (seen link ) and well stonesense is the closes thing that come to it
suggestion forum:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5653.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=5653.0)
mod forum:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99080.0 (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=99080.0)
Post by: Rose on January 18, 2012, 03:03:02 pm
Post by: Jaylow on January 18, 2012, 03:16:20 pm
or it should be implemented in DF, and probably i will still win the lotto quicker then
cause they have better stuff to add to the game
Post by: buckets on January 18, 2012, 05:21:47 pm
It is possible. But that would require an active Dev, which stonesense doesn't have.
What's it run, C++ right? I'd help out if it were python based, but I haven't done anything in C++ in years.
Post by: Jaylow on January 19, 2012, 06:27:22 am
but if you get this to work
you are the coolest person i ever met on the internet :)
Post by: Rose on January 19, 2012, 06:35:19 am
Post by: randoof on January 31, 2012, 06:11:22 am
Hi i had a question/request :)I was just thinking.. one "hacky" and long-winded way of following one dwarf would be to put them in their own squad and then use something like AutoIt to repeatedly hit "z" for you. It would then follow the dwarf within Dwarf Fortress and therefore in Stonesense as well.
would it be possible to let stone-sense follow one dwarf, or a few dwarf on split screens?
so that we could see what they are up to
i asked around (seen link ) and well stonesense is the closes thing that come to it
There are a few problems with this:
- Only one dwarf at a time
- Add a new dwarf to a squad each time to watch them
- Cannot interact with the game whilst in "follow" mode
- Always in "Squad" mode
- and more ...
I have no knowledge of the outside programs you can use with Dwarf Fortress as I only play vanilla, but it might be that is a way to automate at least some of the process..
Post by: Sorcerer on February 09, 2012, 06:52:15 pm
I've been working on a stonesense spriteset for the MLP mod, I've made some good progress but I've hit a snag
The mod has, by default 8 castes: earth pony, pegasus, unicorn and alicorn, in both genders.
However stonesense debug only seems to indicate that these are either male (1) or female (2) regardless of what species they are.
Accoding to the wiki:
Code: [Select]
Creature Genders
Each <variant> node can be extended with a sex attribute to add an additional condition for creature gender. For most races. dwarfs included, the attribute can have one of two values, "M" for male or "F" for female. However, if the creature has more than two castes, a number must be used, starting from "1", and continuing in order that the castes are listed in the rawfile. Again a simple example would be beneficial:adding these variants to the xml results in all males looking like variant 1 while all females look like variant 2, regarless of caste
Post by: Greiger on February 09, 2012, 08:02:19 pm
For example...
Code: [Select]
<variant prof="SUTURER" sex="2" sheetIndex="72"
file="Dracon.png" />
<variant prof="SURGEON" sex="1" sheetIndex="73"
file="Dracon.png" />
<variant prof="SURGEON" sex="2" sheetIndex="72"
file="Dracon.png" />
<variant prof="CHILD" sex="4" sheetIndex="44"
file="DraconBlue.png" />
<variant prof="CHILD" sex="3" sheetIndex="44"
file="DraconBlue.png" />
Where 1 and 2 are the male and female castes for one type, while 3 and 4 are the female and male caste of another type. and that continues like that in my files up to 10.Of course I can't guarantee that still works, there had to be some reason I moved to another method, but that used to be how it was done.
Post by: Sorcerer on February 09, 2012, 08:30:33 pm
Post by: Greiger on February 09, 2012, 09:18:04 pm
Hmm... sorry out of ideas for now, maybe somebody who actually reads the whole line of text the first time has more insight.
Post by: peterix on February 09, 2012, 09:37:57 pm
/me adds problem to the TODO list.
Post by: Rose on February 09, 2012, 09:40:20 pm
Or rather, caste was wrongly being reported as gender before. That was fixed, but an option for chosing by caste hasn't been added in.
one more thing to stick into the todo.
Peter is a ninja
Post by: Caldfir on February 11, 2012, 03:07:48 pm
Yes... YES... compile my pretty! Show the WORLD the horrors you will unleash!
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Don't worry, it's supposed (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/IMeantToDoThat) to do that.
(note: this is not a bug report)
Aha, and there we go.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Bam. Triplesize. Welp, I know what I'm going to be doing over spring break!
Post by: Rose on February 11, 2012, 03:18:30 pm
Also, if you want to make tiles in a slightly different projection, I can help with that.
Spoiler: Any of these besides the first would be doable. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Caldfir on February 12, 2012, 03:10:15 am
Spoiler: in which he rambles on for about a page (click to show/hide)
Anyway, I'm going to try a few things out in the next week or so to see how it goes with larger creature sprites to work with. If I deem the results to be "sufficiently awesome" I'll start thinking about the projection and working on getting some blocks made.
Post by: Rose on February 12, 2012, 04:02:15 am
Anyway, if you get some sprites together that look good enough, that'll also be motivation for me to work on things.
Though one problem with showing what they're wearing is that it makes it harder to tell jobs, so it might be a good idea to have that toggleable.
Post by: Rose on February 12, 2012, 09:35:43 am
I'm giving stonesense a zoom function, and different sized tiles will be able to be mixed.
Post by: Luiz on February 12, 2012, 11:51:30 am
Post by: Rose on February 12, 2012, 12:29:15 pm
Post by: Luiz on February 12, 2012, 12:53:38 pm
Post by: Rose on February 12, 2012, 01:16:28 pm
Post by: Luiz on February 12, 2012, 01:32:00 pm
Post by: Rose on February 12, 2012, 01:40:00 pm
Post by: Mike Mayday on February 12, 2012, 02:29:41 pm
I think I might get back to toying with Stonesense...
Post by: Rose on February 12, 2012, 02:45:28 pm
anything other than iso still requires some work, and would partially break some things like occlusion culling.
Right now, I got this.
Spoiler: Sir, We got some satellite footage of the area. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Blow it up. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Zoom and enhance. (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Got him. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dub on February 12, 2012, 04:42:43 pm
Post by: Rose on February 13, 2012, 12:35:47 pm
Post by: Andir on February 13, 2012, 03:24:26 pm
It's not covered in dirt like every elephant I've ever seen... therefore, I call it a Photoshop!
Post by: Intrinsic on February 15, 2012, 05:50:05 am
Post by: Maklak on February 15, 2012, 06:28:00 am
That zoom, does it have 'fog of war'? There is a light circle around that Dwarf, and everything else is shaded.
z3 or maybe z5 is close enough. z20 has so much interpolation, that it is a blur.
Post by: Rose on February 15, 2012, 07:33:12 am
The fog of war has been there a while in adventure mode. It's just the same stuff you see in DF.
Post by: Weaselcake on February 15, 2012, 06:34:44 pm
Post by: Caldfir on February 15, 2012, 09:29:13 pm
So yeah, it isn't working yet, but look out for updates to DFHack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.0).
In other news, I've been scribbling dwarves in the back of class all week. Here are the current top contenders:
(http://tnypic.net/images/1075b_thumb.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/1075b.jpg.html)
The challenge is in making something that looks decent at a variety of scales, but I think they are coming alomg nicely. Once the primary line-art is done, filling it in should be a snap, and I have things well-structured for subsprite layering.
Post by: Rose on February 15, 2012, 10:33:13 pm
otherwise looks good so far.
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on February 16, 2012, 07:28:52 am
Is it possible again to take "Panaromic" shots of embarks?
As in, Zoom out to take a picture of an embark all in one shot without bits graying out?
I have a few MASSIVE forts I would love to see, but can't use Stonesense, I have some friends that do use it, but don't want to send them the files untill I know it will work.
Post by: Rose on February 16, 2012, 07:34:56 am
otherwise CTRL+F5 takes your entire fortress, not zoomed.
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on February 16, 2012, 07:39:11 am
Unless Stonesense is for Mac now ;P :P
Post by: Aeon Blue on February 16, 2012, 08:32:31 am
In other news, I've been scribbling dwarves in the back of class all week. Here are the current top contenders:
(http://tnypic.net/images/1075b_thumb.jpg) (http://tnypic.net/1075b.jpg.html)
I like this very much.
Post by: Tubal on February 17, 2012, 09:04:47 pm
Post by: buckets on February 18, 2012, 03:37:18 am
If the women don't have beards, they're not real dwarves :P
Unfortunatley, according to Toady that's how female dorfs look in this game. Small human women.
Post by: Rose on February 19, 2012, 04:36:02 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Kordanor on February 19, 2012, 04:37:41 pm
Post by: Greendogo on February 20, 2012, 06:41:40 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2012, 07:23:50 am
Post by: Mike Mayday on February 20, 2012, 07:26:16 am
Japa, is this from Stonesense? If not, then what is it from, do you know?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Old story. This is an artwork by Chris Hildenbrand from http://spriteattack.cator.de/ . I found some of his tiles and asked him if I could use them to make a Dwarf Fortress isometric mockup and he decided to make one too- also making new dwarf icons. That was back in the beginnings of DF 3d.
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2012, 10:42:08 am
I need effect sprites. This means the following:
Steam,
Mist,
MaterialDust,
MagmaMist,
Smoke,
Dragonfire,
Fire,
Web,
MaterialGas,
MaterialVapor,
OceanWave,
SeaFoam
Not all of these need separate sprites, but the ones I have right now are super sucky and only really work for stuff like smoke. fire and webs, etc, don't look that great.
drawing them at a larger than normal size is nice, as long as it's consistent.
Post by: Sorcerer on February 20, 2012, 11:04:03 am
Post by: Rose on February 20, 2012, 09:02:58 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Right now they're just particle effects, but they look pretty ugly. What I'd want to do is to have inique drawn sprites, either a single one that changes opacity according to the density of the effect, or a series of about 4 sprites or so that are chosen based on density
Material dust, material gas, material vapor, and web are all able to be colored by their material, so those need to be white.
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 21, 2012, 12:21:44 am
EDIT: Also, animations y/n. Maximum frame number? same as normal tiles at 6?
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2012, 12:53:07 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 21, 2012, 01:48:08 am
Spoiler: Large Image (click to show/hide)
EDIT: and a web
(http://tnypic.net/92756.png)
Post by: MaximumZero on February 21, 2012, 01:56:07 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 21, 2012, 02:33:51 am
(http://tnypic.net/01243.png)
I'll have to wait and see if I get inspiration on how to go about the other effects.
EDIT: I don't think I'm happy with that mist, I'll probably give it another go later.
Post by: Caldfir on February 21, 2012, 02:38:25 am
I drew a 256x256 web, but then realized that Japa probably meant "flying spiderman-type" web (like a particle effect type thing). I might try some seafoam or something tomorrow, assuming DT hasn't already completed it all by then :P Here it is anyway:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In other news I've been slaving away at these dwarf sprites (still).
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
edit: trying out webs:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2012, 02:42:30 am
I'll test out that fire when I get home.
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2012, 12:50:35 pm
Wow those flames are looking good.
I drew a 256x256 web, but then realized that Japa probably meant "flying spiderman-type" web (like a particle effect type thing). I might try some seafoam or something tomorrow, assuming DT hasn't already completed it all by then :P Here it is anyway:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
In other news I've been slaving away at these dwarf sprites (still).Spoiler (click to show/hide)
edit: trying out webs:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: MaximumZero on February 21, 2012, 01:02:13 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2012, 02:14:06 pm
Here are some flames to get started, I'm still looking over the other effects to see what I can do.Spoiler: Large Image (click to show/hide)
EDIT: and a web
(http://tnypic.net/92756.png)
That mist sprite doesn't really work cus it's just flat, but...
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: slay_mithos on February 21, 2012, 05:29:22 pm
Just how far will StoneSense go?
I mean, I used an old version for DF210, and it was already looking great, but each time I see the new stuff, it becomes even better every time.
Post by: Caldfir on February 21, 2012, 06:07:10 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I threw together a few shots of the large-format dwarves I've been working on. They definitely need some touchup around the edges, but more than that I'm not really pleased with how they are looking zoomed out. This works well as a proof of concept, but I think I'll need to start over again (or at least revise them significantly) before they're worth using.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Graebeard on February 21, 2012, 07:41:48 pm
Post by: sarus92 on February 21, 2012, 08:09:08 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2012, 08:14:30 pm
Post by: sarus92 on February 21, 2012, 08:40:52 pm
Post by: Rose on February 21, 2012, 08:52:04 pm
Post by: Caldfir on February 22, 2012, 03:09:06 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After poking around a bit I managed to turn mipmapping on, which should create cleaner images on zooming out. The dwarves I posted before still don't have enough contrast to work properly, but I whipped something up quick to show how nice and smooth the zoomed images look:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: slay_mithos on February 23, 2012, 10:21:06 am
I noticed that, while working great for about a minute, most functions would not respond after that, restarting the tool would not help at all, only quitting DF entirely would do.
For example, it will stop following the DF screen, and will basically only draw the last layer it drew successfully.
It can still be moves around, but it won't refresh and the image is limited to what was drawn on screen at the time (meaning that navigating will show the "borders" that are not the map, but the scene borders.
I also tried to reload the plugin, it crashed the whole game.
It's too bad, as it is really a tool I loved to use in the DF2010 versions, both as a 3D vision tool and to explore the embark to cheat my main stair case not going strait into a cave's lake.
Post by: Rose on February 23, 2012, 10:25:12 am
Post by: slay_mithos on February 23, 2012, 06:30:57 pm
This memory problem seems to be recurrent and caused by massive amount of "forced" refresh.
Following DF screen for 250 Z-levels down, then up, down and up again, it started to update far less frequently even before reaching the bottom the first time.
Like after any other problems, closing the window (pressing ESCAPE in my case) will flush the lag, but reopening it will cause the window to come back in the state it was before closing, thus having huge lag from the beginning (even my mouse cursor on my screen only updates every 10 seconds or so when it is in this state.
After some further tests, it appears that the memory used by the process DwarfFortress.exe will take a huge memory space upon opening the program through DFHack, as it uses the same process, and the memory will rapidly go up if following the DF screen.
Furthermore, the allotted memory is not flushed upon closing StoneSense, and opening it again will cause an other batch of memory grant.
What is amazing is that it made DF memory usage go far over my personal record with Firefox of 1.5GB (made it to 2GB before I forcefully closing the thread).
I could upload the world I did it in this time if you really want this, but I had the same results with other modded and un modded worlds, so I doubt it is coming from that.
Post by: NobodyPro on February 23, 2012, 07:19:59 pm
That mist sprite doesn't really work cus it's just flat, but...or vector style like the dwarf sprite?Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on February 23, 2012, 09:18:18 pm
Post by: SpoonOfDoom on February 24, 2012, 03:13:38 am
Post by: NobodyPro on February 24, 2012, 03:39:53 am
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2012, 04:09:11 am
If I understand correctly, the full fortress screenshot is supposed to work again, but it still doesn't for me. Am I the only one? Might have something to to with embark size and limited RAM, I guess. If I hit CTRL + F5, I get an error message that the screenshot could not be made (so far, so good). But if I use the CTRL + SHIFT + F5 method, not only stonesense, but also the game itself crash. Might be worth looking into that and give an error message there instead of crashing, if that is possible.
That's from running out of memory, and yes, somebody should fix that.
I'm curious. How easy/difficult would it be to add caste (not gender) specific sprites to creatures (is this possible at the moment for modders?) and could stonesense potentially recognise clothing and armour?
Actually pretty easy for the caste thing, if would have been in this release if not for having forgotten about it.
The clothing issue is more complicated, and might need things to be re-written if we don't want things to get out of hand.
Post by: Maklak on February 24, 2012, 04:59:38 am
Compare:
(http://www.bravemule.com/storage/matul-remrit/slate-1051/17.png)
and
(http://tnypic.net/a1723.png)
In the first one I can see all the trees, bushes and creatures at first glance. In the second the flowers look pretty, but it is so seamless, I can barely make out the squares. There are some trees in the lower right corner, but they take some effort to notice. Creatures, and especially dwarfs meld with the background too much to stand out.
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2012, 06:09:57 am
in DF/stonesense, there's an index.txt. Open that, and stick a hash (#) in front of the grasses/index.txt to get the old grass back.
and in DF/stonesense/vegetation/index.txt, put a hash in front of DT_trees/dt_trees.xml, and remove the one from #trees.xml.
The dwarves shown there are just plain wrong.
Post by: Caldfir on February 24, 2012, 03:07:31 pm
In the first one I can see all the trees, bushes and creatures at first glance. In the second the flowers look pretty, but it is so seamless, I can barely make out the squares. There are some trees in the lower right corner, but they take some effort to notice. Creatures, and especially dwarfs meld with the background too much to stand out.
*sigh*
Serves me right for posting screenshots of stuff that isn't working. In the future I'm going to be more careful not to post things that I broke.
There are definitely tradeoffs between clarity and how much you can show on the screen at once. In DF many people prefer the default ascii to graphics packs because it lets you see a lot of stuff clearly. There is a balance to be struck for sure.
Post by: Maklak on February 24, 2012, 03:28:24 pm
Personally I favour clarity, and even noticed that creatures are often easier to tell apart with letters than with pictures. For example in my 31.16 Phobeus fort I had trouble telling apart dwarves and goblins. Not so with Rhesus Macaque, who at the time were simply 'm'.
I do understand, that some people will prefer prettiness to clarity (and those flowers and spider webs do look pretty impressive), and am fine with it, as long as there are options for both.
I rarely ever use stonesense (mostly as a visualizer to look at constructions from a different angle, and across a few Z-levels, and not while I'm playing, because I like FPS, and don't have room to fit both DF and stonesense on a single 24' monitor.
Anyway, the picture below is pretty enough for me, while being very clear: (This is a work in progress on future release of My Little Pony mod (where you play as ponies, pegasai and unicorns), and is not part of official Stonesense, AFAIK)
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3677116/ponifortheponigod.png)
Post by: cousac on February 24, 2012, 06:28:42 pm
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2012, 10:06:02 pm
This (https://github.com/peterix/stonesense/blob/master/resources/Sprite%20Guide.txt) is a full guide on configuring the sprites, and quite a lot of buildings already have colors like that. Axles, for example.
Post by: Caldfir on February 24, 2012, 10:17:52 pm
Hey, I was wondering if it was possible to do subsprites with buildings like with creatures. I would like to make a bed whose posts and frame matches the material and blanket will be given a color with RGB values. Of course it isn't just going to be beds, but it serves as a good example for the question :)Yeah - beds in fact already do exactly what you're describing:
Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<building name="Bed" game_type="Bed">
<sprite index="81" color="building" />
<sprite index="101" />
</building>
I went to make a screenshot of this, but noticed something odd:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Some of my peasants are being registered with the job "thief". Took a poke around adventure mode and there is some more job weirdness. Is this likely a DFHack bug, a stonesense bug, or did I break something?
(note - this is in the downloaded precompiled version of DFHack/stonesense on a clean install of vanilla DF)
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2012, 10:23:22 pm
EDIT: yup, it's a DFhack problem.
EDIT EDIT: Nope, it was a stonesense problem and is fixed in the next version.
Post by: cousac on February 24, 2012, 11:16:24 pm
subsprites work with /anything/
This (https://github.com/peterix/stonesense/blob/master/resources/Sprite%20Guide.txt) is a full guide on configuring the sprites, and quite a lot of buildings already have colors like that. Axles, for example.
Can't believe I missed this file :-[ Well, I'll be pouring over this. BTW I do not see PositionIndex...is this being phased out?
Hey, I was wondering if it was possible to do subsprites with buildings like with creatures. I would like to make a bed whose posts and frame matches the material and blanket will be given a color with RGB values. Of course it isn't just going to be beds, but it serves as a good example for the question :)Yeah - beds in fact already do exactly what you're describing:Code: [Select]<?xml version="1.0"?>
<building name="Bed" game_type="Bed">
<sprite index="81" color="building" />
<sprite index="101" />
</building>
Good to know, I'm still "translating" the copious amount of xml files, lol
Post by: Rose on February 24, 2012, 11:22:29 pm
Post by: orius on February 25, 2012, 02:26:21 am
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 03:24:17 am
Post by: Jiri Petru on February 25, 2012, 03:44:55 am
does such an image actually exist?
Yes it does, there is Effect_flames.png in my Stonesence directory, capital letter and everything. Is still crashes for me as well.
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 04:35:20 am
Post by: orius on February 25, 2012, 08:05:03 am
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 08:32:51 am
what's your videocard and how much video memory?
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 10:10:26 am
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 10:23:36 am
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 10:33:50 am
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 05:02:07 pm
<variant prof="MINER" caste="MALE" sheetIndex="40" color="bodypart" bodypart="skin" >
Here's an example of usage. replace MALE with whatever name you use in the raws for the caste.
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 06:35:25 pm
Post by: Weaselcake on February 25, 2012, 07:23:34 pm
Post by: Caldfir on February 25, 2012, 08:11:03 pm
How are you guys getting this to work with the updated dwarf fortress? :(It's up and running aleady. Check out the DFHack (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.0) page to install :)
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 09:25:09 pm
Is there any way i can see what sprites are being loaded?
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 09:27:53 pm
if you turn on debug mode and put your cursor over them, what name shows up? and what do you have for the xml file for them?
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 09:33:31 pm
the XML for pony creature:
Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<creatures>
<creature gameID="PONY_LITTLE" sheetIndex="20" file="color_poni.png" color="bodypart" bodypart="coat" >
<subsprite sheetIndex="21" color="bodypart" bodypart="mane and tail" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="22" color="bodypart" bodypart="coat" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="23" />
</creature>
</creatures>
xml file added to index.txt
I just don't see what went wrong!
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 09:45:43 pm
Other than that, not sure.
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 09:51:55 pm
Now it loads fine!
Post by: Rose on February 25, 2012, 09:55:20 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on February 25, 2012, 09:57:24 pm
Post by: orius on February 25, 2012, 11:26:29 pm
videocard issue then.
what's your videocard and how much video memory?
Where do I find this information in Win7?
Post by: Kordanor on February 25, 2012, 11:30:22 pm
videocard issue then.
what's your videocard and how much video memory?
Where do I find this information in Win7?
Easiest way: Just type dxdiag into the little window in the startmenu (where you can search for stuff). Then check the tab for your display device.
Post by: Caldfir on February 26, 2012, 12:31:44 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not in love with it, but it does look cool and wispy. It might need to have its alpha channel tweaked a bit one way or another (it is already pretty transparent). If it works I'll make some variations.
Post by: orius on February 26, 2012, 12:34:49 am
(http://i.imgur.com/Ju90H.png)
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 12:40:05 am
I suppose this is the information then?
(http://i.imgur.com/Ju90H.png)
that's... not a lot of video memory. It might be possible to disable enough stuff in stonesense, or it might not. try opening stonesense/index.txt, and put a hash in front of each line (#) to comment them out, and see if it runs. if it does, you can try adding things back one by one to see how much you can get away with.
Post by: orius on February 26, 2012, 01:28:46 am
PC gaming can get so frustrating.
Anyway, turning everything off didn't seem to help much at all. And I can't switch between z-levels either.
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 01:51:45 am
The image used for the fire effect is just way too big.
replace it with a smaller image, and smaller image, and give it the same name, and it'll load up, and probably work fine until you see dragonbreath or fire.
Post by: orius on February 26, 2012, 01:56:29 am
Chopping it down to 2048 helped. It loads with software rendering set to ANY, and I can move between z-levels again. Now I got to turn the graphics options back on again to see what I can run.
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 02:02:06 am
Post by: Maklak on February 26, 2012, 03:57:05 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 26, 2012, 04:29:27 am
Try this one:
Spoiler: not as large an image (click to show/hide)
EDIT: fixed some black haloing around the fire
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 06:14:16 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 26, 2012, 11:26:40 am
what's with the two columns?I have no idea... maybe the right one is superfire?
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 12:06:06 pm
Post by: NW_Kohaku on February 26, 2012, 03:11:27 pm
I've never exactly used Stonesense before, (although I don't really use graphics packs either, to begin with, although I happen to be using them now, just because I've made a mod that uses them...), but I guess I could do some minor scaling and shading to make the junk that I make for everyone else look decent with 200% zoom.
You'll have to wait until I actually feel back in the mood for spending all day going crosseyed shading pixel-by-pixel though. I want to finish up the bugs and slugs, first, and I've completely depressed myself over my inability to make a compelling-looking Damselflyman.
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 03:16:37 pm
Post by: Caldfir on February 26, 2012, 05:45:13 pm
Granted, many of those are vermin/giants/animalmen which would require little to no extra work to illustrate, but my God that's a lot of creatues to draw!
I've tried a few new things with respect to large creature sprites, and I think I finally have a successful format:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
After trying many things I've concluded that what lets me make these things most effectively and quickly is MSPaint. Doing fancy vector art in corel painter or gimp or photoshop is a lot of work, and as the failed dwarf sprites I made earlier demonstrate, does not scale well once rasterized. What really helps with the scaling is having hard edges between distinct colour regions.
[edit] Oh, and the jabberer sprite is doubletall. I figure that is a good way to handle really large creatures (whales elephants and the like). It can end up looking strange in some situations, but I think the benefit outweighs the cost.
Post by: Askot Bokbondeler on February 26, 2012, 07:30:36 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/jSTqW.png)
i could pimp him up a bit, and maybe make some different beard and hairstyles, and possibly make him a girlfriend. would it be of any use?
E:
oh, and also these, if you prefer the style
(http://i.imgur.com/idPuh.png)
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 09:39:27 pm
Post by: Rose on February 26, 2012, 11:39:23 pm
Spoiler: NSFW: nude (click to show/hide)
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 27, 2012, 12:58:08 am
also, since you're just stealing sprites anyway, if the source is big enough, hit me with a doube sized one.The source is me: Minecraft Dokucraft Collaboration (http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/513093-11-dokucraft-the-saga-continues-32x/page__st__8914). That is as big as it goes.
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2012, 01:33:47 am
also, since you're just stealing sprites anyway, if the source is big enough, hit me with a doube sized one.The source is me: Minecraft Dokucraft Collaboration (http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/513093-11-dokucraft-the-saga-continues-32x/page__st__8914). That is as big as it goes.
Oh, okay, then. nevermind
Post by: Caldfir on February 27, 2012, 01:38:39 am
double post for great justice.Spoiler: NSFW: nude (click to show/hide)
It took me a second to figure out what I was looking at. My God - its finally happening. Identified clothing!
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2012, 01:58:04 am
Post by: Dark_Tundra on February 27, 2012, 02:24:04 am
Spoiler: larger Image (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sorcerer on February 27, 2012, 10:14:21 am
Post by: Eurus on February 27, 2012, 09:58:09 pm
I mean this feature is kind of the only reason I want to use this, so I'd like to know if any of these problems are on my end and fixable, or if what I described is the known issue.
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2012, 10:01:24 pm
I need to re-do the entire thing to be more system friendly.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on February 27, 2012, 10:37:14 pm
The dwarves with multiple sets of clothing is really interesting to me, though, and I'd like to know what sort of format I would need to put in for dwarfy paper doll action to go on.
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2012, 10:52:01 pm
<variant caste="FEMALE" sheetIndex="0" color="bodypart" bodypart="skin" >
<subsprite sheetIndex="3" color="bodypart" bodypart="hair" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="4" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="86" color="helm"/>
<subsprite sheetIndex="88" color="shoes"/>
<subsprite sheetIndex="89" color="armor"/>
</variant>
right now it can only take the material color from the worn item, and I missed pants by accident, but I plan on being able to chose a specific item of clothing for the sprite, which with vanilla DF will be any of these:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
but I haven't quite figured out how I'm gonna implement it yet.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on February 27, 2012, 11:11:24 pm
I'd be rather interested in seeing this work, so if you want me to whip up custom sprites for it, just give me the specs. I did a lot of layer-based paper-dolling on the nagas graphics (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=100783.msg2987143#msg2987143) when adding all the little job-based hats and baubles, and seeing paper-dolling in-game would be something pretty exciting.
I do wonder if there might be a way to make some parts of this based upon jobs, rather than just physical appearance, though, since having the ability to tell the legendary engraver from the novice soap maker would be more important, if less visually stimulating, than just what they're wearing (when they all generally wear the same thing).
I've never actually used Stonesense before, since it seemed a bit of a hassle to get up and running, and I was pretty fine with just mentally picturing my forts (which I made fairly vertical and deep underground, anyway). These new features, though, make me very interested.
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2012, 11:19:45 pm
This is the sprites I have for goblins, which were made before I had coloring by armor part, but would still work fine for that.
first sprite is the skin layer, second is hair, third is parts that shouldn't be colored, and the last is the clothing layer.
Code: [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<creatures>
<creature gameID="GOBLIN" sheetIndex="0" file="gobbos.png" color="bodypart" bodypart="skin">
<subsprite sheetIndex="1" color="bodypart" bodypart="hair" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="2" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="3" color="profession" />
<variant sex="F" sheetIndex="4" color="bodypart" bodypart="skin">
<subsprite sheetIndex="5" color="bodypart" bodypart="hair" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="6" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="7" color="profession" />
</variant>
</creature>
</creatures>
Here the clothing is colored according to profession, using the same colors as DF
Post by: NW_Kohaku on February 27, 2012, 11:26:50 pm
Also, does this require the magenta background, or do transparencies work? Transparencies are good for the "soft" appearances and shading that I like to do.
Post by: Rose on February 27, 2012, 11:52:39 pm
you can have as many poses as you want, but you'd have to have a different set of clothing for each one, likely.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on February 28, 2012, 12:04:49 am
If you don't mind either splitting this up into a grid or else having a really, really long picture, I can do different beard styles, armor styles, weapons, etc.
I'm thinking something like having a more aggressive stance for weaponlords, and marksdwarves would need a different pose from melee dwarves, and so would most two-hander weapons.
I'd also have to draw individual weapons differently, instead of just going by the skills, the way that the graphics tiles did, so it's going to wind up a pretty large paper doll file.
I guess I'll do a male dwarf, unless you want me to do humans or something, instead?
Post by: Caldfir on February 28, 2012, 12:09:05 am
Is there anything like having different poses based upon profession or the like? (So that, for example, I could create a different sprite for recruits, normal soldiers, and weaponlords on how they hold their weapons, which could in turn be different from profession poses.)
Also, does this require the magenta background, or do transparencies work? Transparencies are good for the "soft" appearances and shading that I like to do.
Yo - check my sig for the progress I made with dwarf/goblin/human sprites before you decide to reinvent the wheel on anything.
Feel free to use/change anything there, and if you want I can send you the original *.psd files (they have a checkerboard layer for getting the sizes right). I think my *.png files are also already transparent.
As for what I've been up to more recently:
Spoiler: hello ladies (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on February 28, 2012, 12:26:40 am
Post by: Rose on February 28, 2012, 12:42:50 am
If you don't mind either splitting this up into a grid or else having a really, really long picture, I can do different beard styles, armor styles, weapons, etc.
All sprites are arranged in a 20*Y grid.
why 20? hell if I know.
Post by: Sorcerer on February 28, 2012, 02:58:13 am
Post by: Rose on February 28, 2012, 03:06:33 am
Post by: Maklak on February 28, 2012, 03:53:35 am
Post by: Rose on February 28, 2012, 04:07:06 am
The same paperdolls can be used for both.
Post by: Sorcerer on February 28, 2012, 04:22:03 am
So for instance:
Code: [Select]
<variant caste="MALE","MALE1","MALE2" sheetIndex="20" color="bodypart" bodypart="coat" >
<subsprite sheetIndex="21" color="bodypart" bodypart="hair" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="23" />
</variant>Instead of having X copies of the same code with just the castename difference.If its a HUGE recoding excercise and you're limited for time don't bother with it, i don't think It'll apply to much else than the ponymod at this point.
I just know that adding all the equipment stuff for all 88 of my castes will be a beyatch :D
Post by: Rose on February 28, 2012, 04:44:49 am
Post by: Sorcerer on February 28, 2012, 05:01:57 am
Post by: Caldfir on February 28, 2012, 12:31:24 pm
Hey Japa, just a question, would it be possible to get the variants to be applied to multiple castes?I'd reccomend grabbing notepad++ and learning the regex (regular expression) search/replace function. If used correctly, you can search/replace based on complicated criteria in multiple files at once. It can save an amazing amount of time.
So for instance:Code: [Select]<variant caste="MALE","MALE1","MALE2" sheetIndex="20" color="bodypart" bodypart="coat" >Instead of having X copies of the same code with just the castename difference.
<subsprite sheetIndex="21" color="bodypart" bodypart="hair" />
<subsprite sheetIndex="23" />
</variant>
If its a HUGE recoding excercise and you're limited for time don't bother with it, i don't think It'll apply to much else than the ponymod at this point.
I just know that adding all the equipment stuff for all 88 of my castes will be a beyatch :D
Post by: Eurus on February 28, 2012, 04:43:12 pm
issue is that it takes up far too much ram, both system and video, to be useful.
I need to re-do the entire thing to be more system friendly.
I guess that explains why it works on smaller embarks. 3x2 and presumably smaller seems to work, guess I'll stick with that for now.
Post by: Jingles on March 01, 2012, 12:44:28 pm
Post by: Caldfir on March 01, 2012, 07:39:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I think I'm going to continue trying to round out domestic creatures and underground monsters, with a preference for creatures that don't yet have any sprites (like goats and water buffaloes) and creatures that are very common to see. I wish I'd sponsored mountain sheep last year, because I really like drawing horns, and that would have been a good excuse to go completely crazy with it. I tried doing some interesting things with the outlines of the fire imps pulsing red, but it ended up being kinda seizure-inducing.
I think the style is pretty successful so far - things look decent down to around 64x64. 32x32 ends up being a bit ugly, but most are still recognizable
Post by: MaximumZero on March 02, 2012, 07:30:25 am
right now it can only take the material color from the worn item, and I missed pants by accident, but I plan on being able to chose a specific item of clothing for the sprite, which with vanilla DF will be any of these:Suuuuure, you did. ;)
Post by: Axiom on March 03, 2012, 06:48:30 am
Any ideas? I know I am probably missing something super simple but I am not sure what it is.
Post by: Rose on March 03, 2012, 07:29:05 am
Post by: Kordanor on March 03, 2012, 07:43:02 am
When I tried it a week ago it was loading forever and screwed up Therapist by changing names to "Unknown Unknown".
Post by: Rose on March 03, 2012, 07:54:25 am
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2012, 06:37:02 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sorcerer on March 04, 2012, 08:29:12 am
Post by: Caldfir on March 04, 2012, 02:05:42 pm
Exciting because of all the possibilities it allows (not to mention just plain being a convenient way to inspect equipment), and terrifying because, hot damn that's going to require a lot of art to bring to its full potential.
Post by: NobodyPro on March 04, 2012, 06:11:19 pm
Anyway, I'm looking forward to spiriting for my future mods.
Post by: Rose on March 04, 2012, 10:08:31 pm
I can't see the dwarf >.>
Anyway, I'm looking forward to spiriting for my future mods.
He's under the word battle axe
Post by: Maklak on March 07, 2012, 06:13:35 am
(http://tnypic.net/4a0b6.png)
How do I make the ground look nice and green? like in
(http://www.bravemule.com/storage/front-page/bmfp5.png)
This is a soil layer, and not stone, but it is brown, and not green.
I'd also like to reduce or remove the shift to blue from seeing multiple Z-levels below.
Post by: Rose on March 07, 2012, 06:43:52 am
And you can change the fog color in stonesense/init.txt
Post by: Maklak on March 07, 2012, 07:34:52 am
If you check terrain/index.txt, there should be a commented out grass texture. I think.OK, setting Fog alpha to lower value solved one problem.
And you can change the fog color in stonesense/init.txt
terrain/index.txt had grass uncommented, and there may be some error in the grass.xml file, but switching to DarkTundra, and commenting out pretty much everything else in terrain/index.txt worked.
(http://tnypic.net/c91c7.png)
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on March 08, 2012, 11:44:31 am
Hey is there a handy utility that shows the "colors" for all the rocks and materials in stonesense?
I don't use it, instead I send files to a friend about once a month for him to screen caps. I never know how things will look till he sends them back, and often find colors in game very much different in Stonesense.
Any help?
Post by: Rose on March 08, 2012, 11:51:20 am
Post by: Caldfir on March 09, 2012, 03:09:55 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Going to try to power through the list of equipment types before I even think about she-dwarves. Cannot overestimate how happy I am with the way these sprites scale.
Post by: Maklak on March 09, 2012, 03:42:43 am
Post by: Rushmik on March 09, 2012, 03:49:56 am
Okay. Clothed dwarves are the next thing on the agenda. Going to be a bit of work, but I have a baseline to start from right now. This is so much incredibly more successful than my previous attempt. Dwarves look good down to 64x64, and are recognizable down to 32x32. So much better than my previous attempt.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Going to try to power through the list of equipment types before I even think about she-dwarves. Cannot overestimate how happy I am with the way these sprites scale.
I'm used to be a fan of the pixel-y dwarves, but your high res dwarves have converted me. They're absolutely perfect.
Post by: Rose on March 09, 2012, 05:03:18 am
Um... I'm rather ignorant about it, but why do you need such a high zoom? I mean I prefer having an overview then see only 50 or so tiles.
Well, the main thing is so that you can zoom in and get a look at what everybody's wearing.
Post by: slay_mithos on March 09, 2012, 08:53:44 am
It's really annoying, as it also crashes the game alongside with the program, and I can't get to explore the area to set up my main staircase.
I basically use Stonesense for two things, one being finding a gap in the caves to have a 3x3 staircase all the way to the lava sea. The second is to see my forts after some above ground building have been made, to enjoy the 3D effect resulting from it.
I don't know why the crash occurs, as stderr.log only says "Invoking: ssense" on the last line, not quite the error log I was expecting.
I tried it on various worlds, both from personnal templates or from the basic generator, and I always have this crash.
I hope I could give more information, but I need to know where to look for it first.
NOTE: I am using masterwork mod, that adds quite a lot of underground stuff, so it might come from this, but I didn't have this problem previously, so I don't think it could be 100% from this.
Post by: Starmantis on March 09, 2012, 09:40:37 am
Post by: slay_mithos on March 09, 2012, 10:30:16 am
When .Net 4 will have been "ported" to the unix world, you will be able to use it, but seeing the time it took for the 3.5, you might want at least a virtual machine for this.
I am not involved in the development, but I think making an unix version would be a huge amount of work, by rewriting in a different language or using a "compatible" framework version. Both are generally rewriting most of the program, and I personally would not want to attempt it, as it would mean two versions to support, add features to and debug, meaning two times the work load for any little thing.
Most users don't like/understand other systems, so it is a little harsh to say to use a windows os, but as far as my understanding of the problem goes, it is the fastest solution.
Sorry if it didn't really answer the question or if I missed something.
Post by: Rose on March 09, 2012, 11:31:56 am
Yeah, dual boot/virtual machine with a window, it's still on a mac, just not the OS...
When .Net 4 will have been "ported" to the unix world, you will be able to use it, but seeing the time it took for the 3.5, you might want at least a virtual machine for this.
I am not involved in the development, but I think making an unix version would be a huge amount of work, by rewriting in a different language or using a "compatible" framework version. Both are generally rewriting most of the program, and I personally would not want to attempt it, as it would mean two versions to support, add features to and debug, meaning two times the work load for any little thing.
Most users don't like/understand other systems, so it is a little harsh to say to use a windows os, but as far as my understanding of the problem goes, it is the fastest solution.
Sorry if it didn't really answer the question or if I missed something.
Yeah, you missed the fact that we don't use .net in any shape or form, all of our libs are cross platform, much of this is actively being developed on linux, and the only thing preventing a mac release is the lack of a mac developer.
Post by: Caldfir on March 09, 2012, 01:54:47 pm
Um... I'm rather ignorant about it, but why do you need such a high zoom? I mean I prefer having an overview then see only 50 or so tiles.I get where you're coming from, and I like stonesesnse's pixel-y look as well (I've made a few 32x32 sprite sheets myself if you check my sig). There are no plans to remove that, and I'm going to be trying to set things up so that switching between the current 32x32 tiles and the 256x256 tiles I'm working on is simple (probably just change the name of one file) so that people can use the one they like best with little to no hassle.
As for "why", well, we have all the information, and we have the ability to display it, so why not show off your squad of bronze-clad dwarves wielding silver warhammers? As Japa said, it's for viewing what individual dwarves are wearing, because stonesense can do that now. You posted a while back that parts of stonesense are looking pretty cluttered right now, and that's an accurate observation. If that detail is provided at a different scale, however, it should end up being less cluttered, since there won't be so many things of that detail level on the screen at once, and zooming out should smooth things to the point where the detail isn't visible, giving a much cleaner look at things. The point is to show more detail, but make things less cluttered at the same time. The zoom function (',' and '.') was added to try to give the best of both worlds - zoom in to see detail, zoom out to get an overview.
Post by: Maklak on March 09, 2012, 03:39:00 pm
Post by: peterix on March 10, 2012, 01:53:20 pm
I'm not sure what causes this, but in the 34.05 release of dfhack, stonesense always crashes after using the mouse wheel for going down around 70 levels.Using masterwork raws, I can't get it to crash. Can you post a world/save where this realiably happens?
It's really annoying, as it also crashes the game alongside with the program, and I can't get to explore the area to set up my main staircase.
I basically use Stonesense for two things, one being finding a gap in the caves to have a 3x3 staircase all the way to the lava sea. The second is to see my forts after some above ground building have been made, to enjoy the 3D effect resulting from it.
I don't know why the crash occurs, as stderr.log only says "Invoking: ssense" on the last line, not quite the error log I was expecting.
I tried it on various worlds, both from personnal templates or from the basic generator, and I always have this crash.
I hope I could give more information, but I need to know where to look for it first.
NOTE: I am using masterwork mod, that adds quite a lot of underground stuff, so it might come from this, but I didn't have this problem previously, so I don't think it could be 100% from this.
Post by: Canter on March 10, 2012, 05:27:19 pm
Lates version with updated Memory.xml.
Latest DF
Win 7 64
Some idea?
Post by: slay_mithos on March 10, 2012, 05:31:51 pm
http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=5838
I hope this was the place where to upload it to.
I used the last 1.5.1 release of masterwork, so the stonesense version is also from this package.
I tested three times before uploading, and it always crashes shortly bellow the second cave.
Post by: Meph on March 11, 2012, 08:40:18 pm
Post by: psychologicalshock on March 11, 2012, 09:15:18 pm
EDIT: Found a fix, just needed to press O, cheers!
Post by: Sorcerer on March 11, 2012, 09:18:09 pm
Post by: psychologicalshock on March 11, 2012, 11:55:29 pm
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2012, 02:48:52 am
The full map screenshot function is not working for me, it didn't work in the past either though, any tips?
Submit a code fix that enables it properly?
Post by: Graebeard on March 12, 2012, 09:10:31 am
Post by: Greiger on March 12, 2012, 12:29:46 pm
When I took a shot of a friend's map I set Ssense to load 70 z-levels of map by default (the height of the object I wanted a shot of. Some people make some really badass towers) and positioned the in game cursor at the highest z level. Ran ssense in software mode and hit ctrl-f5 and it worked. My guess is that it can't handle too much at once and the 'from top of the map to the bottom' full map screenshot is just too much for it.
Post by: Rose on March 12, 2012, 03:13:03 pm
Post by: Greiger on March 12, 2012, 07:13:10 pm
Post by: Rose on March 13, 2012, 01:36:08 am
Post by: Caldfir on March 13, 2012, 03:40:47 am
Quote from: Toady One
Next up I'm going to mess around with clothing a bit. There are a few obstacles to getting them to pick up clothes, and I've fixed the easy one. I stopped people with injuries from obsessing forever over unusable objects, but I want to make that better so that they don't think about them at all after one initial check. Getting it all to work together with uniforms, current inventory, injuries, available items, modded bodies and layering restrictions is always tricky, but that's the project. I'm also going to handle owned items that just sit out on the floor forever and deal with damaged clothing.
Yes. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003672)
Hell yes.
Spoiler: Hell F**king Yes. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rushmik on March 13, 2012, 04:32:21 am
Post by: Sorcerer on March 13, 2012, 06:25:31 am
also: Japa, is there some sort of toggle to turn on creature debug info in the dev version, it shows up only sporadically it seems O_o
Post by: Rose on March 13, 2012, 06:56:30 am
Fixed that for you.Quote from: Toady OneNext up I'm going to mess around with clothing a bit. There are a few obstacles to getting them to pick up clothes, and I've fixed the easy one. I stopped people with injuries from obsessing forever over unusable objects, but I want to make that better so that they don't think about them at all after one initial check. Getting it all to work together with uniforms, current inventory, injuries, available items, modded bodies and layering restrictions is always tricky, but that's the project. I'm also going to handle owned items that just sit out on the floor forever and deal with damaged clothing.
Yes. (http://www.mspaintadventures.com/?s=6&p=003672)
Hell yes.Spoiler: Hell F**king Yes. (click to show/hide)
gah, the picture isn't loading, what did he dooo?
also: Japa, is there some sort of toggle to turn on creature debug info in the dev version, it shows up only sporadically it seems O_o
It only shows up when you either press v in DF, or when you press u, and then c on a creature.
Post by: Sorcerer on March 13, 2012, 06:59:49 am
Post by: Sorcerer on March 15, 2012, 01:17:43 pm
Specifically my appletree building crash the everloving daylights out of Stonesense...
Is there any way i can get stonesense to draw a simple sprite for a specific building instead of using the fancy automatic tiling? I think it doesn't like me using '|' for the treetrunk.
I tried making an XML file and just leaving it blank after the <building blahblah/>, but that didn't seem to do anything.
Post by: Rose on March 15, 2012, 01:49:51 pm
and what do you mean by |? stonesense doesn't show letters.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 15, 2012, 02:38:37 pm
Something I wanted to try out regarding layers of images so as to make a single "dwarf graphic" display both clothing as it actually exists and still display jobs, however, was an idea to make an abstract "job badge" that sits in the top left corner of the character icon.
The idea was to make it a 8x8 pixel block that uses color fields symbolically to convey profession. So, a 4x8 bottom block could be brown to designate farmers, and then you could have some other color combination to represent different sub-farmer professions.
Soldiers could instead use shield-shaped icons.
A little mock-up I threw together using that goblin posted earlier:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I probably should put a border around those, however :P
Also, trying to make any sort of graphic image that isn't just a field of color seems to be a bad idea in 8x8 pixels, so that sword shouldn't be there.
Post by: Caldfir on March 15, 2012, 04:45:31 pm
Something I wanted to try out regarding layers of images so as to make a single "dwarf graphic" display both clothing as it actually exists and still display jobs, however, was an idea to make an abstract "job badge" that sits in the top left corner of the character icon.
The idea was to make it a 8x8 pixel block that uses color fields symbolically to convey profession. So, a 4x8 bottom block could be brown to designate farmers, and then you could have some other color combination to represent different sub-farmer professions.
Soldiers could instead use shield-shaped icons.
A little mock-up I threw together using that goblin posted earlier:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I probably should put a border around those, however :P
Also, trying to make any sort of graphic image that isn't just a field of color seems to be a bad idea in 8x8 pixels, so that sword shouldn't be there.
I was actually thinking the same thing regarding my large-format dwarf sprites. It occurred to me that Stonesense already uses status icons, and something similar might be tacked on using the same system. That way you don't have to worry about including them in every sprite of everything you make, you would be able to toggle them on or off, and they would be visible regardless of zooming in/out.
Spoiler: so something like this, but with job icons (click to show/hide)
Someone would still need to make some unambiguous job icons though...
Post by: Sorcerer on March 15, 2012, 04:48:28 pm
Btw, caldfir, those sprites are looking awesome!
Post by: EmilAFN on March 15, 2012, 05:33:33 pm
Post by: buckets on March 15, 2012, 10:10:33 pm
Who are the Devs for this mod/visualizer? and is it compatible for 34.02? (there's over 300 pages, It'll take ages to look though them all)Pity you didn't look at the OP... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.0)
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 15, 2012, 11:52:24 pm
Someone would still need to make some unambiguous job icons though...
Considering how compressed it needs to be, I do somewhat think the best path is to have very simple, abstract icons, though. Like a yellow "v" in a green field to represent "grower", and then just having a legend you can punch up. After all, it's not particularly obvious to see brown and think "farmer" or blue and think "craftsdwarf", but you learn it eventually.
Spoiler: If we can have larger badges, though... (click to show/hide)
Although maybe the swordslord needs more distinct chevrons from the background, now that I look at it, unzoomed...
Post by: Rushmik on March 16, 2012, 03:21:04 am
Post by: Caldfir on March 16, 2012, 04:52:03 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is the first time I've managed to try something out before Japa adds it in :P (proud of myself).
Anyway, I am stuck trying to figure out dwarven helmets and veils at the moment, but once that's done I'll post a tentative version of the large clothed dwarf sprites somewhere.
It is hard to make good helmets :-\
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Caldfir on March 16, 2012, 04:52:40 am
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 16, 2012, 03:34:20 pm
It might be worth simply going with simple icons colored the same as dwarves are in game, since most will be familiar with that already. Maybe have one symbol for not-legendary and another for legendary, but otherwise the individual professions are just defined by the colors.
Well, the idea is that a few simple color-coded shapes can be used to signify the individual jobs, in much the same way that a graphic sheet can specify individual jobs.
Spoiler: A sheet of nagas by jobs I did for the naga mod (click to show/hide)
Except it would probably be easier to identify everything with simpler color field icons than trying to actually fit a mug of beer into a brewer token. (So a brownish column with a dark background might better represent a brewer than trying to actually fit a mug of beer, but would give more information to the viewer than just stopping at "farmer".)
Oh, and since it looks like I have the right size (it looks like 12 pixels), I can just put these up here, if you wanted to use those badges I already put up.
Spoiler: Individual pieces .png (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sorcerer on March 16, 2012, 04:54:57 pm
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 16, 2012, 05:58:14 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on March 16, 2012, 06:13:50 pm
They don't completely fill the 16x16 box, but all of it should be available if you need some extra :P
Post by: Caldfir on March 17, 2012, 01:21:04 am
Spoiler: dwarves at market (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: some ironclad dwarves in the arena (click to show/hide)
I'm still missing turbans and veils, but I think I'll hold off on those (dwarves can't make them so they aren't top priority). It also looks strange if a dwarf wears a hood and a helmet at the same time, but I don't really know how to fix that. Otherwise, layering is working very well, and the sprites are scaling extremely well. The metal armor pieces are all completely flat at the moment because I want to do the "shiny metal" effects all at once when I've got the stance-sprites and female-sprites and female-stance-sprites all working.
Those shouldn't individually take as long as these have because I have a starting point to work from now.
Post by: Rushmik on March 17, 2012, 04:56:55 am
Post by: EmilAFN on March 17, 2012, 04:15:46 pm
Who are the Devs for this mod/visualizer? and is it compatible for 34.02? (there's over 300 pages, It'll take ages to look though them all)Pity you didn't look at the OP... (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=43260.0)
Sorry about that... read the post properly and Found a version :D Thanks :D Now... Let's find out how I can move up and down between the layers in stonesense...
Post by: Rose on March 17, 2012, 04:24:03 pm
Post by: EmeraldWind on March 17, 2012, 10:44:56 pm
That is some excellent work.
Post by: Solifuge on March 18, 2012, 01:57:12 am
(http://i.imgur.com/O2wnD.png)
A different style of base icon, or perhaps just a lone colorized Weapon Icon, can be used to represent specific types of soldier.
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 02:00:20 am
Post by: Baardago on March 18, 2012, 09:48:58 am
So, I'm wondering if anyone can help me out here with a problem I'm having. Stonesense keeps getting a C++ runtime error on startup, after spending about a minute or two trying to connect to DF. Thing is that I already have all the required redistributables, including the SP 1. So, what gives? Any ideas? I'm also running it as administrator as it won't even start if I don't.
Would be nice to get Stonesene working, as a I love DF, but am also a pretty visual guy, so Stonesense would make the experience even better.
Cheers.
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 11:09:44 am
Latest Version
Stonesense is currently being maintained and distributed as a part of the DFHack package, for more details see the DFHack thread (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91166.0).
Post by: Ironhand on March 18, 2012, 04:26:22 pm
Can we do the high-resolution thing with floors and walls and stuff too?
Post by: Sorcerer on March 18, 2012, 04:26:42 pm
Building RAW:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
This is the only one of my custom buildings that crash.. is there any way to get stonesense to only draw a simple graphic instead of using the custom building blueprints that build ingame graphics automatically from the building tiles?
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 04:35:18 pm
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 04:36:34 pm
Those dwarves are awesome!
Can we do the high-resolution thing with floors and walls and stuff too?
any sprite that is set by an xml file can be at any resolution that's a power of two multiple of the default size. this include lower resolutions too.
Post by: Sorcerer on March 18, 2012, 04:49:07 pm
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 05:15:38 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on March 18, 2012, 05:16:42 pm
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 05:18:31 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on March 18, 2012, 05:21:05 pm
[BUILD_ITEM:1:NONE:NONE:NONE:NONE][BUILDMAT][WORTHLESS_STONE_ONLY][CAN_USE_ARTIFACT]
and they show up fine now.
Post by: Rose on March 18, 2012, 05:23:11 pm
Post by: EmeraldWind on March 18, 2012, 10:24:13 pm
Agreed! Also, there's something to be said for the 200x zoom in Stonesense, and I really do like the larger sprites. Anyway, I decided to throw together a basic style for some job icons. So far, I'm thinking color-coded backplates for the job family, with an icon that represents their specialty (if we can get that)
(http://i.imgur.com/O2wnD.png)
A different style of base icon, or perhaps just a lone colorized Weapon Icon, can be used to represent specific types of soldier.
These are nice. Easy to look at and get the info you want from them.
Post by: sedna16 on March 19, 2012, 08:41:07 am
Post by: Truean on March 19, 2012, 04:00:48 pm
What are you guys trying to do: make cool looking small pictures of furniture, possibly from several angles....
Small furniture:
(http://www.searchamateur.com/pictures/wooden-furniture-set-250.jpg)
I doubt any of you would buy actual physical dollhouse furniture you could photograph from any angle (or like, "make a website" showcasing pictures for someone who already had it :P) there are craploads of pictures if you Google variations of "dollhouse furniture." They make tons of styles etc and a photograph as a sprite will of course be more realistic than any possible drawing. It might be possible to just make it...
We all know I'm crazy, but am I completely off the deep end here? I'm imagining I'm either nuts, or just coming up with an idea your average straight white male internet user wouldn't think of....
Post by: Rose on March 19, 2012, 04:27:50 pm
Just because something is realistic, doesn't mean it looks good.
All of the current sprites are cartoonish.
adding photos in there would look completely out of place. Like will smith in space jam.
Post by: Truean on March 19, 2012, 04:30:51 pm
It's a matter of style.
Just because something is realistic, doesn't mean it looks good.
All of the current sprites are cartoonish.
adding photos in there would look completely out of place. Like will smith in space jam.
Actually, that's a good point. Hum, I wonder if I could make an entire tileset based upon the realism/photo thing:walls, floors, etc <-- Idle thought.
Post by: Andir on March 19, 2012, 04:45:26 pm
Post by: NobodyPro on March 20, 2012, 01:18:33 am
Take pictures of real furniture... photoshop them into cartoonish furniture.That's so crazy it might just work...
F.E: Traced stuff looks traced, use pictures as guides.
Post by: Sorcerer on March 20, 2012, 08:05:31 am
Post by: Sorcerer on March 20, 2012, 08:53:10 am
Post by: SalmonGod on March 20, 2012, 09:03:04 am
Post by: Rose on March 20, 2012, 09:22:28 am
Humm, is the large scale sprite sheets in the current release version? I scaled up my sheet but now only a couple of very large pixels are displayed ingame
Did you set the scale factor in the sprite xml file?
This is an example:
Code: [Select]
<variant special="Normal" sheetIndex="0" zoom="3" color="bodypart" bodypart="skin" >
the number after zoom can be positive or negative, and specifies a scaling factor in the form of 2n times the origional sprite size.so 3 would mean x23 = x8, which indicates that the sprite is 8 times the size of a normal one, and should be scaled accordingly.
negative inverts it, so 2-1 would mean the sprite is half the resolution.
Post by: Sorcerer on March 20, 2012, 12:53:59 pm
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3677116/bigponi.png)
So.. um... are we limited to using "only" one sheet of 375 tiles per creature?
Im thinking these high quality sprites i can do alot more detail, even as far as making induvidual cutie marks on a caste level...
Post by: Rose on March 20, 2012, 01:00:40 pm
a single image is 20 sprites wide, and can be as tall as you need.
Post by: Sorcerer on March 20, 2012, 01:06:30 pm
Post by: Kaos on March 20, 2012, 03:14:13 pm
By the way, what's with the ponies? :o
Post by: Andir on March 20, 2012, 03:26:16 pm
Stonesense + clothing... simply awesome!!This is the Internet... Ponies are the new annoying thing.
By the way, what's with the ponies? :o
Post by: Kaos on March 20, 2012, 06:06:06 pm
quote pyramid powers, activate!!Stonesense + clothing... simply awesome!!This is the Internet... Ponies are the new annoying thing.
By the way, what's with the ponies? :o
Not only ponies but, cartoonish girly looking candy coloured ponies ::)
It's a new meme or something?
Post by: Black_Legion on March 20, 2012, 06:23:11 pm
quote pyramid powers, activate!!Stonesense + clothing... simply awesome!!This is the Internet... Ponies are the new annoying thing.
By the way, what's with the ponies? :o
Not only ponies but, cartoonish girly looking candy coloured ponies ::)
It's a new meme or something?
For the Bronie phenom:
<derail>
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm really liking where we are heading with the clothes. Are there plans to have any specific leather colors or subtypes depending on animal?
Post by: buckets on March 20, 2012, 08:35:54 pm
The easiest solution would probably be some very basic 3d box modeling of furniture rendered out in a cell shaded style. Much easier than hunting for photographs or photoshopping or trying to draw stuff from reference. Unless you want extravagant or accurate drapery, furniture is very quick and easy to model.You'll find it very hard to get it to look nice. You'd prolly need to put more effort into the model, texture, and render than you would with just drawing a sprite.
Post by: Caldfir on March 21, 2012, 12:32:04 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sorcerer on March 21, 2012, 04:50:14 pm
What's the proper syntax for clothing, and will i have to duplicate the clothing stuff for every variation type?
Post by: Caldfir on March 21, 2012, 06:13:35 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on March 21, 2012, 06:28:33 pm
They don't seem to get colored by dyes tho, is that a possibility in the future?
Post by: Caldfir on March 21, 2012, 06:53:59 pm
That did the trick! my sprites can now have clothes!Yes, Japa has dyes working (observe midnight blue dimple dye in my screenshot) and that should be in the next version.
They don't seem to get colored by dyes tho, is that a possibility in the future?
Post by: Sorcerer on March 21, 2012, 07:02:00 pm
this xml file is going to be hilarious to make, i have 88 castes XD
Post by: Spinal_Taper on March 21, 2012, 08:04:17 pm
Post by: Caldfir on March 22, 2012, 11:46:58 pm
I have an issue where it takes forever to load from DF.Are you using the correct version of Stonesense (from the DFHack thread)? If you are, then I definitely need more information than that to help you.
Does it hang forever? What OS are you using? What version of DF are you running? What game mode are you trying to run? Does your computer have a video card? If you're playing fort mode, how big is your embark?
Post by: cousac on March 24, 2012, 02:05:39 pm
Post by: Rose on March 24, 2012, 03:41:00 pm
Right now you can make sprites and test them using custom buildings, until I get items working right.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: cousac on March 24, 2012, 03:48:52 pm
Working on adding that feature right now, though sprites are always welcome.
Right now you can make sprites and test them using custom buildings, until I get items working right.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Very cool! I am using blender3d to produce some sprites with different LOD for different zooms. It's an experiment, but one I am having fun with :) I'll keep watching the thread. Good Luck :)
Post by: cousac on March 24, 2012, 10:03:43 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on March 24, 2012, 10:06:26 pm
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 12:30:58 am
One more thing, sorry if it is a stupid question. What "camera" angle are you fellows basing your images on? reason I ask is that there seems to be no fewer than 3 different angles that can be used for isometric views. :p
we don't use any camera at all.
we draw our stuff in paint.
Post by: EmeraldWind on March 25, 2012, 12:37:40 am
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphical_projection_comparison.png)
Post by: cousac on March 25, 2012, 12:51:08 am
He probably is asking which iso projection SS is using. Like this:
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Graphical_projection_comparison.png)
Japa, EmeraldWind is right...I misspoke (mistyped?) I did indeed mean which isometric projection does Stonesense use. I want my 3d models to look right when rendered into sheets. I know you guys paint your sprites (freaking amazing btw. I'm quite envious ;) )
EmeraldWind, the image is not showing... What were you trying to show? And thanks for the support! Perhaps I shouldn't write my posts past midnight..I get stupid :p Again EW thanks.
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 12:51:57 am
What I do know is that the tiles aren't cubes.
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 12:53:22 am
He probably is asking which iso projection SS is using. Like this:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Graphical_projection_comparison.png)
Fixed that for you, and we'd be using dimretric
Post by: MaximumZero on March 25, 2012, 01:15:31 am
regards to which angle, see, that's a tricky one. I actually had to do some pretty complex math when I tried to figure out how to map it to 3d, and I dont remember what I ended up with.Ey, wot? How'd you come up with that?
What I do know is that the tiles aren't cubes.
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 01:25:35 am
Code: [Select]
\117°/
\ /
121.5°\/121.5°
|
|
|I'm not sure how to convert that to 3d.
Post by: cousac on March 25, 2012, 01:47:26 am
So, Japa does this look right to you?
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 01:52:02 am
Otherwise, that looks fine.
I'm not sure weather the pink border is intentional.
Post by: cousac on March 25, 2012, 02:11:30 am
Re: pink border. Nope was supposed to be pink background..dunno what happened. Checked my image, the pink bg was still there but only a border on img.ie. weird... I'm new to pic posting anyway, could have done something newbish ;)
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 02:30:29 am
Post by: cousac on March 25, 2012, 02:32:43 am
After some tweaking I got it spot on... I loaded the back image and the render into GIMP and as i changed the opacity of the back image it merely appears as if I changed the color :) the edges match up precisely. Thanks for suggesting I turn off antialiasing. Anyway now that I have a template, The rest should be easy peasy.
Oh and if you want to see the result:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS: I'm not quite OCD, but I believe that "close-enough" equals "lack of passion" which is not me ;)
EDIT: Gotcha, I switched the Alpha channel from sky color to straight up alpha. no more pinks ;)
EDITEDIT: I planned on it, just wanted to see if I can match the tile. Now that I have the right setup I may render in 256x instead
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 02:36:36 am
Post by: Caldfir on March 25, 2012, 03:15:29 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
A real 3D implementation would be much better though, since different angle-projections could be made much more easily (this thing just draws a bunch of quadrilaterals on the screen).
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 03:38:07 am
SUCCESS!!
After some tweaking I got it spot on... I loaded the back image and the render into GIMP and as i changed the opacity of the back image it merely appears as if I changed the color :) the edges match up precisely. Thanks for suggesting I turn off antialiasing. Anyway now that I have a template, The rest should be easy peasy.
Oh and if you want to see the result:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS: I'm not quite OCD, but I believe that "close-enough" equals "lack of passion" which is not me ;)
EDIT: Gotcha, I switched the Alpha channel from sky color to straight up alpha. no more pinks ;)
EDITEDIT: I planned on it, just wanted to see if I can match the tile. Now that I have the right setup I may render in 256x instead
Here's something I found:
(http://www.compuphase.com/images/axometr3.gif)
Post by: orius on March 25, 2012, 01:39:43 pm
we draw our stuff in paint.
That's a bit impressive. Paint isn't necessarily a bad tool, but it's a lot easier to make something look like crap than it is to make it look good.
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 02:07:48 pm
Post by: Mike Mayday on March 25, 2012, 02:08:49 pm
It's actually not done in paint, but it is drawn pixel by pixel, and when there isn't a lot of pixels to go around, it's hard to screw up too bad.
heh. Oh how I WISH that were true.
Post by: Rose on March 25, 2012, 02:10:42 pm
Post by: orius on March 26, 2012, 01:44:53 am
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 06:32:33 am
Spoiler: I'm just leaving this here. (click to show/hide)
Post by: Sorcerer on March 26, 2012, 07:02:47 am
Post by: Crossroads Inc. on March 26, 2012, 07:33:47 am
STOCKPILES! You have working stockpiles!
I salute you good dwarf!
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 07:59:28 am
Any clutter that's lying around.
Post by: EmeraldWind on March 26, 2012, 08:20:10 am
I remember before the new DF Hack it seemed like the project was going to stop progressing, but then all of the sudden it started up again, awesome.
The new dwarves look really good in their outfits. This next version of SS is going to be awesome.
Post by: thvaz on March 26, 2012, 08:31:11 am
Post by: orius on March 26, 2012, 01:48:38 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Ironhand on March 26, 2012, 01:56:23 pm
Awesome!
Post by: Kogut on March 26, 2012, 02:23:30 pm
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 02:43:02 pm
Spoiler: Here's sprited items with materals. (click to show/hide)
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 26, 2012, 03:02:20 pm
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 03:04:09 pm
Post by: Sorcerer on March 26, 2012, 03:04:37 pm
Post by: Black_Legion on March 26, 2012, 03:08:34 pm
Those are dogs.
I never realized DF dogs were so... colorful. It makes sense (Everything is a mutt) but I thought at least their faces would match their coat. Interesting, I need to pay more attention to reading their descriptions.
Post by: Kogut on March 26, 2012, 03:11:08 pm
Post by: NobodyPro on March 26, 2012, 05:40:04 pm
YEAAH!
Post by: Kaos on March 26, 2012, 06:33:26 pm
I mean no offence, only constructive criticism... right now they don't give the feel of stacked goods on a stockpile, more like a bunch stuff scattered over a wide empty space, maybe if they were made bigger as to fill the tile like in-game??
Maybe bins would look better closed? they give the feel of a toy well for some reason..
Barrels: the sprite on the still looks great, maybe something like that but rotated 90š (standing)? or on its side like that could also work out with a foot stand or something, like in a wine cellar.
I think it was already that way but... the coffins: whenever I built one always tough "why do they look so small?" when seeing them next to a bed in what I think is either a furniture stockpile or a very cluttered dormitory with some dwarves having a mechanism fetish, I can see why: coffins are smaller than beds, maybe I'm thinking about dwarven mausoleums like the dwarf tomb inside moria in the lord of the rings, a big stone coffin should look bulky... not the same size as the bed, but at least as long and only a little thinner.
Great work nevertheless! can't wait to play with this! :D
Post by: Caldfir on March 26, 2012, 07:44:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If anyone wants to get a more comprehensive set of icons working, it would be most appreciated. My current prototype icon sheet can be obtained here (https://github.com/Caldfir/stonesense/raw/master/resources/SSJobIcons.png), and the full list of professions (in the order they should appear as icons in the sheet) can be found here (https://raw.github.com/peterix/df-structures/master/df.skills.xml).
Post by: orius on March 26, 2012, 08:06:33 pm
Spoiler: Here's sprited items with materals. (click to show/hide)
Hmmm. Do you also have some kind of new feature there that cuts away part of the walls?
Post by: cousac on March 26, 2012, 08:21:09 pm
Spoiler: Here's sprited items with materals. (click to show/hide)
Hmmm. Do you also have some kind of new feature there that cuts away part of the walls?
That's what you get when you press 'c'
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 26, 2012, 08:50:28 pm
Alright, I think I have job indicators semi-functional for the normal professions:Spoiler (click to show/hide)
If anyone wants to get a more comprehensive set of icons working, it would be most appreciated. My current prototype icon sheet can be obtained here (https://github.com/Caldfir/stonesense/raw/master/resources/SSJobIcons.png), and the full list of professions (in the order they should appear as icons in the sheet) can be found here (https://raw.github.com/peterix/df-structures/master/df.skills.xml).
Hmm...
I'm trying to make the simplest, easiest-to-see icons I can, but they don't look so great when I'm not messing with transparencies and such.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Tell me if you want me to continue in this vein.
The engraver one has a little bit of transparency, since I just couldn't hold back on that.
Post by: Caldfir on March 26, 2012, 10:07:43 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Don't feel married to what I had there already though - it can handle transparency etc. just fine, I was just providing a simple template, so do whatever you think conveys the information best.
Post by: cousac on March 26, 2012, 10:59:14 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I dunno, I'm pretty pleased :D
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 26, 2012, 11:02:46 pm
Post by: cousac on March 26, 2012, 11:10:45 pm
EDIT: Kohaku, you posed a good point. After some tweaking, I came up with this:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 11:20:51 pm
are the open boxes supposed to be bins? and the things that look like acorns are barrels, right? the sticks on the top right are logs?
I mean no offence, only constructive criticism... right now they don't give the feel of stacked goods on a stockpile, more like a bunch stuff scattered over a wide empty space, maybe if they were made bigger as to fill the tile like in-game??
Maybe bins would look better closed? they give the feel of a toy well for some reason..
Barrels: the sprite on the still looks great, maybe something like that but rotated 90š (standing)? or on its side like that could also work out with a foot stand or something, like in a wine cellar.
I think it was already that way but... the coffins: whenever I built one always tough "why do they look so small?" when seeing them next to a bed in what I think is either a furniture stockpile or a very cluttered dormitory with some dwarves having a mechanism fetish, I can see why: coffins are smaller than beds, maybe I'm thinking about dwarven mausoleums like the dwarf tomb inside moria in the lord of the rings, a big stone coffin should look bulky... not the same size as the bed, but at least as long and only a little thinner.
Great work nevertheless! can't wait to play with this! :D
Draw me new sprites. These ones are terrible.
Post by: cousac on March 26, 2012, 11:23:36 pm
are the open boxes supposed to be bins? and the things that look like acorns are barrels, right? the sticks on the top right are logs?
I mean no offence, only constructive criticism... right now they don't give the feel of stacked goods on a stockpile, more like a bunch stuff scattered over a wide empty space, maybe if they were made bigger as to fill the tile like in-game??
Maybe bins would look better closed? they give the feel of a toy well for some reason..
Barrels: the sprite on the still looks great, maybe something like that but rotated 90š (standing)? or on its side like that could also work out with a foot stand or something, like in a wine cellar.
I think it was already that way but... the coffins: whenever I built one always tough "why do they look so small?" when seeing them next to a bed in what I think is either a furniture stockpile or a very cluttered dormitory with some dwarves having a mechanism fetish, I can see why: coffins are smaller than beds, maybe I'm thinking about dwarven mausoleums like the dwarf tomb inside moria in the lord of the rings, a big stone coffin should look bulky... not the same size as the bed, but at least as long and only a little thinner.
Great work nevertheless! can't wait to play with this! :D
Draw me new sprites. These ones are terrible.
Ahm woikin on it, Ahm woikin on it! Sheesh!
;D
EDIT: Japa, Do you have a way of telling what's inside? I'd like to do a decal based on whats contained. Also I want to have the drink barrel on its side on struts while other barrels will be upright.
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 11:30:17 pm
The info is there, though.
Post by: cousac on March 26, 2012, 11:39:03 pm
Post by: Rose on March 26, 2012, 11:46:04 pm
Anyway, the main issue with the clay is the sun angle. It's... wrong, pretty much.
If you look at all the other sprites, the top face is the lightest, the right face is the darkest, and the left face is in between.
(http://tnypic.net/84c39.png)
Start with a white block, and try to get the lights matched up with this one, so things will match existing sprites. Then work on other things.
Post by: cousac on March 26, 2012, 11:50:24 pm
It's nothing to complicated. I just gotta add in the code that reads the contents of the containers, and then add in some sprite info.
Anyway, the main issue with the clay is the sun angle. It's... wrong, pretty much.
If you look at all the other sprites, the top face is the lightest, the right face is the darkest, and the left face is in between.
(http://tnypic.net/84c39.png)
Start with a white block, and try to get the lights matched up with this one, so things will match existing sprites. Then work on other things.
I see what you mean! :p :)
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 26, 2012, 11:57:54 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I just can't keep myself from doing some of the more complex icons once I am getting going... I might have to do shading on that armor, too.
Oh, and that scalpel is there in the blues for the fish dissector. I'm going to copy-paste a fishy for all those, so it'll be under the scalpel like the puppy was for the animal dissector.
Post by: cousac on March 27, 2012, 12:40:43 am
I think I got it this time. Doing the white block was a 'duh' Why didn't I think of that! oye! Anyway, I'll leave you with this screenshot and wend my way to bed.
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
PS: What does stonesense mean by "extra sprites"?
Post by: Rose on March 27, 2012, 12:50:00 am
Post by: Kogut on March 27, 2012, 01:40:22 am
Well, here's where I am so far, going to bed, so I'll just put these up for critique now.Looks quite interesting.Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I just can't keep myself from doing some of the more complex icons once I am getting going... I might have to do shading on that armor, too.
Oh, and that scalpel is there in the blues for the fish dissector. I'm going to copy-paste a fishy for all those, so it'll be under the scalpel like the puppy was for the animal dissector.
Post by: cousac on March 27, 2012, 05:13:47 am
Extra sprites where?
under the debug cursor it'll sometime say "1 extra sprite" or "2 extra sprite"
Post by: Rose on March 27, 2012, 06:56:35 am
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 27, 2012, 12:37:48 pm
I could put in icons for the rest of them, of course, like that puppy for the generic animal-based dwarves, or a metal bar for the metalworkers, or a gem for the gemworkers.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 27, 2012, 03:17:23 pm
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
I also have some things like a pile of wood that can go in that yellow icon for general wood workers and such, although I'm not sure how to express "generic craftsman".
Tell me if any of these icons need reworking or are confusing. I wound up making most of the "crafter" types wind up being various forms of goblets/cups/mugs.
Post by: Kogut on March 27, 2012, 03:35:23 pm
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 27, 2012, 03:36:37 pm
I think that mason may be better with stone/bricks.
*sigh* I really heavily debated doing that, too...
I can throw away the hammer icon and do bricks if others agree.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 11:21:51 am
A pickaxe is easy to distinguish. If I try to make a pretty icon for a spinning wheel, however, how easily can you distinguish that while leaning back?
I don't know about you guys, but I have to crank the zoom up just to be able to read the forums easily.
Post by: Caldfir on March 28, 2012, 12:09:55 pm
Also: working on ladydwarves' clothing at the moment. Here's a screen just using the men's clothing sprites from a couple days ago:
Spoiler: caution: nudist dwarves within (click to show/hide)
People usually start arguing when they see female dwarf pictures for some reason. For those who prefer their women 'on the husky side' I'll write a separate xml that just uses the male sprites but without beards. For whatever resaon this issue seems to divide people.
*shrug*
Post by: orius on March 28, 2012, 12:46:02 pm
People usually start arguing when they see female dwarf pictures for some reason. For those who prefer their women 'on the husky side' I'll write a separate xml that just uses the male sprites but without beards. For whatever resaon this issue seems to divide people.
*shrug*
Maybe because bearded dorf women are funny or something. Dwarves just don't come off as very feminine for some reason.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 12:53:24 pm
There would still be the "Ken Doll" model if you go looking for it, yes, but it would still probably stop a few people from getting upset.
Those female dwarves have a stare that seems creepy... It's probably the expressionless gaze with no irises in the eyes.
Also, could someone give a second opinion on the masonry icon? Hammer or a lump of bricks? Bricks would be just a bunch of rectangles.
Post by: Kaos on March 28, 2012, 02:53:54 pm
Seriously, seeing the stair in that pic reminds me: will you be fixing the issue with stairs where they'd always face the near side no mater the rotation?
About the female dwarves, right now I think you're using a fixed sprite: the males head clean shaved with the long beard and the females with long hair and no beard, some people mod their females and babies to have beards (I don't like it personally, at least for females, male babies with beards are hilarious) if you make it that the creature sprite actually shows the hair and beard features, it will work out for everybody, the ones that like their bearded females will simply gen worlds with them and it will simply show up on SS.
Also remember the basic rule (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChainMailBikini) for designing female outfits in a fantasy setting. ;)
Probably you have noticed already but with the new dwarf high-res graphics the background looks pixelated and out of place, two different drawing styles mixed together.
Post by: Rose on March 28, 2012, 02:57:58 pm
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 03:52:51 pm
Toady may well delete posts or threads with nudity, so taking a step to just prevent some possible conflicts in the future wouldn't really hurt. It's a risk that doesn't need to be taken.
Also, please, no chainmail bikinis. Please. As awful as that whole trope is already, the only thing worse is involving bikinis with dwarves.
Post by: Kaos on March 28, 2012, 05:10:10 pm
To avoid issues with forum rules and the like make sure that in the images you post creatures are at least wearing a loincloth/thong.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 07:40:04 pm
I'm hardly a moral guardian who goes all Helen Lovejoy about the children, but I just plain don't want to see naked dwarves if I can at all help it. (And the same goes for chainmail bikinis.)
Post by: Caldfir on March 28, 2012, 09:27:03 pm
The comments on the spoiler images are mainly just there to inform the viewer, since, while it would be odd to be generically offended by such images (which would imply that the viewer is also universally offended by most dolls), there are naturally venues in which any amount of nudity would be inappropriate to view; for example at one's place of work; I'm not offended by naked barbie/ken dolls, but I also wouldn't want to be caught holding one during a business meeting.
So I'll draw what I'm drawing, and if somehow someone is disturbed by this, they may feel free to make the changes themself (unless Japa, Peterix, or Toady tell me I'm way off-base here). Otherwise, just stop zooming in on naked dwarves in stonesense while at work I guess.
On the subject of the infamous "chainmail bikini", there is no need for concern. I am aware there is a line to be treaded in a fantasy setting between making women look like women, and being vulgar. For the most part, the female clothing is going to closely match the male counterpart, but scaled and repositioned to prevent impossible geometries. The clothes will be stylish, but not sexualized.
At the end of the day, 99% of my dwarves are draped in so many layers of cloaks and robes none of this will probably ever matter anyway.
Post by: ndkid on March 28, 2012, 10:06:00 pm
Post by: dree12 on March 28, 2012, 10:11:42 pm
I doubt this would please everyone, and apologies if it's been mentioned before, but what about the possibility of dwarven anatomy having such a massive amount of pubic hair that bits simply can't be seen through it? The hair could be shaded the same color as the rest of the dwarf's hair, and then there's no need for stapled-on-underwear, discussing dwarven genitals, or any pixilation or anything.I prefer the current method of barbie-dolling it, with no genitals visible at all. I don't see how anyone who is not offended by pubic hair would be offended at the current style.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 11:06:09 pm
Anyway, I still think that if you believe it necessary to warn people about not opening a spoiler when you might be at work, then it should be an option for people who actually play with this to have a means of non-nude dwarves.
Yes, most of the time they won't be nude, but then there's going to be that one guy who's at work whose boss walks in the instant that one dwarf decides it's time for a change of underwear.
I would also say that there is a certain thing to be said about the innate censorship this game already has - As I remember a few people mentioning before, I seriously, seriously doubt that things like babyfalls or throwing kittens down chutes to explode into chunks in the faces of dwarves, or simply butchering kittens and cleaning away the kitten skin to get a pristine kitten skull for a neat totem would be quite so widespread among the playerbase if they actually had to see those kittens being cut open.
They like the idea of doing something against the cultural norms, but most people would probably get a little queasy were they to see how their
An option is a type of freedom, itself, for those who want to protect their no-censorship freedoms.
Post by: Greiger on March 28, 2012, 11:12:23 pm
That and I have a feeling it would make females look too much like cousin It.
Kohaku makes a good point too. And making an optional underwear thing would sound like it would work, but something has to be the default. And no matter what the default is it makes a bit of the decision. For example I don't have a prefrence, (first of all I likely won't even see any dwarves in ss but regardless...) I wouldn't feel strongly enough either way to modify the xml to change it. So probably the majority of users, especially ones that don't know how to change it, won't. Whatever is the default will be what 'unmodded' stonesense would be, and anyone posting screenshots with that changed from default would be seen differently because of it.
If they changed from a doll default to underwear, they could be seen as prudes, if they changed from underwear to doll they could be seen as sex addicts. Having trouble putting what I mean into words, I hope my message gets across.
As an aside...people probably shouldn't be playing DF at work anyway...
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 28, 2012, 11:58:01 pm
I mean, there is some derision that goes on between people who mod the game in any size, shape, or form, already, but really, it's not anyone's business if someone enjoys vanilla or a mod. The same goes for anyone using ASCII vs. anything else, including Stonesense.
We're already talking about a subset of a subset of a pretty small clique community, here. How much intolerance do you think people can hold for someone who just doesn't want their own personal dwarves to go naked/clothed?
There are, of course, mods that put in the genitalia that the game currently lacks. There was even that succubus/incubus mod that involved a race that attacked through lactation and sexual fluids, which really goes up to the absolute limits.
Call me a prude if you must, but I'd still rather a "prude" option, even if I have to go adding it myself.
For perspective, though, for as far as anyone cares, I should say that I've never used or been particularly interested in using Stonesense before this. In fact, I usually just stick with the default ASCII and hardly mod my game all that much, in spite of generally supporting modding.
I only started adding graphics on a whim, and happened to be decent at it, and because of that got sucked up over here.
I only now show interest in Stonesense because I think these new things that are being added, which actually go beyond what anything else in the game has been able to do, and show a granularity of detail that the game has never shown before, is a truly exciting thing, because it actually opens up some of these details that have thus far been nothing but a useless bit of junk data squirreled away in some remote sub-sub-sub-menu of no relevance.
With that said, much like how kitten de-skulling would be rather gruesome if you had to watch it in person (provided you were a cat-lover), I'm not particularly keen on seeing nudist colony dwarves. It's something of a turn-off to me that makes me pull back from the rest of the overwhelming positive I'm seeing out of taking the leap into trying this new thing I haven't tried before in using Stonesense.
Maybe I'm weird. Actually, I know I'm weird... but anyway, there will be other people who react to this the same way I do, even if there are not all that many, and it's limiting.
Post by: Greendogo on March 29, 2012, 01:12:35 am
Also, Japa, will we ever be able to control DF from within Stonesense? What's stopping you from using DFHack to do this already?
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2012, 01:41:33 am
Also, Japa, will we ever be able to control DF from within Stonesense? What's stopping you from using DFHack to do this already?
Lack of desire to do the work required.
Post by: Greendogo on March 29, 2012, 03:48:47 am
Post by: Jiri Petru on March 29, 2012, 03:54:59 am
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2012, 03:56:03 am
However, it's seriously easy to make the underwear always on, rather than only on when they're actually wearing some.
Post by: Kogut on March 29, 2012, 04:02:48 am
Post by: starvingpoet on March 29, 2012, 10:49:58 am
Post by: Andir on March 29, 2012, 10:52:10 am
I have my own viewpoints on the two subjects.
Post by: Black_Legion on March 29, 2012, 11:06:55 am
As far as dwarf armor Warhammer always seemed to get what it should be like: Resolute, Engraved, and shown with a lot of craftsmanship.
Like so:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
You can see sketches of the female versions in the top left of the first and the top right of the second image. It still shows the femaleness of the character but is still in the vein of practical fantasy armor. Caldfir I think your sprites are progressing wonderfully. Know I just wish we could get someone to update the sprites in the background as well. It looks better when the styles match.
Post by: NW_Kohaku on March 29, 2012, 01:18:28 pm
Anyway, I guess I'll just draw the underwear, myself, if you guys would just let there be some option to enable it.
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2012, 01:31:57 pm
The game has underwear. It will be drawn.
There's literally one line of text that needs to be changed to turn it on.
Post by: Kaos on March 29, 2012, 03:15:56 pm
* No stapled underwear, it's just silly when the game has it's own and it will be drawn when they wear it.
* An option to select the kind of nudity:
** realistic(maybe add proper hair if the game models it, and even genitalia a lā child goku in dragon ball)
Spoiler: "picture of naked goku" (click to show/hide)
** blured a lā The Sims
** covered with black and white "censored" sings
Just my two cents.
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2012, 03:18:32 pm
I say just go with barbie doll. That's family safe.
Post by: khearn on March 29, 2012, 04:22:17 pm
I could live with naked dwarves being shown with heart boxers, since such items aren't in the game so I'd notice that they're actually naked. But please don't draw thongs over heart boxers if they're just wearing thongs! That'd be just silly.
"Censored" bars would be another cute possibility. But they need to float in front of the dwarf, not conform to the dwarf's shape. If you're going to do it, do it right. :)
One way or another, if your boss is ok with you playing DF at work, I doubt he/she would get too upset about seeing naked barbie dwarves.
Post by: Rose on March 29, 2012, 04:24:20 pm
Post by: Meta on March 30, 2012, 10:02:12 am
https://twitter.com/#!/IVSoftware/statuses/185732155857575936 (https://twitter.com/#!/IVSoftware/statuses/185732155857575936)
:D
Post by: Rose on March 31, 2012, 05:00:47 am
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Post by: Greiger on March 31, 2012, 09:35:40 am
Post by: Jingles on March 31, 2012, 04:20:41 pm
:P
Post by: WillowLuman on March 31, 2012, 05:00:04 pm
Code: [Select]
Cannot load image: stonesense\creatures\large_256\dwarf.png
stonesense\buildings\Shop.xml: <building> Is generic - game_subtype missing.: building (Line 5)
stonesense\buildings\Blueprint.xml: <building> Is generic - game_subtype missing.: building (Line 5)
Post by: Rose on March 31, 2012, 05:07:03 pm
Post by: dree12 on March 31, 2012, 05:17:15 pm
bug peterix to make it not complain about things that don't matter.
Quote
Cannot load image: stonesense\creatures\large_256\dwarf.png
This does in fact matter, and crashes stonesense. The other two don't.
Post by: Rose on March 31, 2012, 05:20:32 pm
Open stonesense/creatures/index.txt, and remove the lines that have 256 in them.
Post by: WillowLuman on March 31, 2012, 05:37:15 pm
Now I have to make sprites for my superheroes... or just use human sprites I guess. Definately need Dalek sprites tho
Post by: cousac on April 01, 2012, 12:00:32 am
Post by: Kaos on April 01, 2012, 06:44:04 am
I'm on a laptop, the scroll works great to go through the z-levels, but when I try ctrl+scroll to zoom, it does nothing...
Post by: Sorcerer on April 01, 2012, 06:50:47 am
Post by: Rose on April 01, 2012, 09:14:56 am
Post by: Greiger on April 01, 2012, 09:57:35 am
Code: (A very short xml) [Select]
<?xml version="1.0"?>
<items file="Grei_items.png">
<item game_type="BIN" sheetIndex="0" color="item" />
<item game_type="ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT" sheetIndex="1" color="item" />
</items>
Spoiler: tiny spritesheet, "greyscale" with transparency, beware darkling users! (click to show/hide)
Am I just making a silly little mistake someplace or does the program still have a bit of trouble with tool type items?
Post by: Rose on April 01, 2012, 11:26:48 am
Post by: Greiger on April 01, 2012, 11:35:30 am
(http://tnypic.net/images/548b3_thumb.png) (http://tnypic.net/548b3.png.html)
Post by: Rose on April 01, 2012, 11:47:49 am
Post by: Greiger on April 01, 2012, 12:06:06 pm
Hm. Still throws an error though, this time not liking the subtype "stonesense\items\Grei_items.xml: <item> unknown game_subtype value: item (Line 4)" Seems like it just moved the value it doesn't like over to game_subtype instead of game_type.
and line 4 is now <item game_type="TOOL" game_subtype="ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT" sheetIndex="1" color="item" />
EDIT: I seem to have made a small amount of progress. <item game_type="TOOL" game_subtype="" sheetIndex="1" color="item" /> gets them to appear properly, but all the tools lying on the floor become pots as well. So I'm thinking the problem lies in ITEM_TOOL_LARGE_POT somewhere, but everywhere I'm looking seems to indicate that is the correct entry. Hmm...
Post by: Rose on April 01, 2012, 12:16:31 pm
Post by: Kaos on April 01, 2012, 01:30:10 pm
zoom is , and .
yeah, there was never a ctr+scroll:o you guys need to add that to the readme file then...
wait a minute... *rereads readme*... somehow I read this:
Quote from: readme
Ctrl-Scrollwheel: Increase/decrease Z depth shownand got: "increase/decrease zoom shown", silly me :P
nevertheless the "," and "." for zoom is not in the readme.
Post by: cousac on April 01, 2012, 04:36:03 pm
nevertheless the "," and "." for zoom is not in the readme.
He's right :p
PS what can I do about the grasses_grayscale.xml issue? I'd really like to use it...
Post by: Weaselcake on April 02, 2012, 10:01:56 pm
I want to take screens of my little first mega-project but it's only showing a little sliver of its width. :/
Post by: Rose on April 02, 2012, 11:51:34 pm
Post by: kirrian on April 03, 2012, 09:30:01 am
Please forgive me if this have been asked before. Is there an upper limit to SEGMENTSIZE_XY? It seems to be about 100, but maybe I'm just not doing it right. Now that I finally figure out there is a zoom feature I would love to see a larger swath of my fortress.
Also, just a suggestion; moving the map with the mouse works, but it would be great if there was a keyboard alternative. Especially if it mirrored the movement keys in DF.
Post by: Aerval on April 03, 2012, 09:35:03 am
Also, just a suggestion; moving the map with the mouse works, but it would be great if there was a keyboard alternative. Especially if it mirrored the movement keys in DF.
For me arrow keys and num pad work fine (at least last time i tried it)
Post by: Rose on April 03, 2012, 09:41:16 am
Post by: Kraggh on April 03, 2012, 05:53:09 pm
oh. right.
Open stonesense/creatures/index.txt, and remove the lines that have 256 in them.
Sorry, but I donīt understand that, this is my index.txt:
"large_256/index.txt
caravan_animals.xml
beefmo_large_ocean.xml
beefmo_subterranean.xml
humies.xml
elfs.xml
wild_animals.xml
#goblins.xml
#this is an example of colored creatures. they aren't as good as teh other ones.
gobbos.xml
beefmo_domestics.xml
Wildlife.xml
#clothed_Dwarves.xml
color_Dwarves.xml
# Dwarves.xml
# Elves.xml"
If I delete large256/... line, a new error appears!
Post by: dree12 on April 03, 2012, 08:53:38 pm
"Cannot load image: stonesense\creatures\large_256\dwarf.png"I just deleted large_256/dwarf.png and everything worked fine, without having to change index.txt.oh. right.
Open stonesense/creatures/index.txt, and remove the lines that have 256 in them.
Sorry, but I donīt understand that, this is my index.txt:
"large_256/index.txt
caravan_animals.xml
beefmo_large_ocean.xml
beefmo_subterranean.xml
humies.xml
elfs.xml
wild_animals.xml
#goblins.xml
#this is an example of colored creatures. they aren't as good as teh other ones.
gobbos.xml
beefmo_domestics.xml
Wildlife.xml
#clothed_Dwarves.xml
color_Dwarves.xml
# Dwarves.xml
# Elves.xml"
If I delete large256/... line, a new error appears!
Post by: Siquo on April 04, 2012, 04:43:04 am
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2012, 04:55:52 am
The easiest way to get it is to download DFHack, following the instructions here (https://github.com/peterix/dfhack/blob/master/COMPILE.rst)
This will get you everything you need to build it.
The main place to go to regarding development is #dfhack on irc.freenode.net I am pretty much always there when I can be, as are most of the DFhack people.
If you don't have an irc client, just go here: http://webchat.freenode.net/
Regarding issues, there isn't really much in the way of organization there, especially with no full time devs. It's mostly just whoever finds a problem and has time to write a fix.
Post by: Kraggh on April 04, 2012, 05:09:20 am
It,s totally normal, the people ask the same 300 times if here are 5.000 post... anybody will read 5.000 posts!!! If the page creator donīt actuallice relevant info in the first post...
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2012, 05:14:20 am
Post by: Kogut on April 04, 2012, 05:52:40 am
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2012, 05:55:43 am
Post by: Siquo on April 04, 2012, 06:49:19 am
Thanks for those links, I'm going to go see if I can be useful in the few minutes of spare time per month I have left. A new thread with a "current" OP might be useful, though, or at least a redirect to "get your ass over to the dfhack thread" edit in the current one (a moderator might be helpful)?
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2012, 06:51:09 am
After I take a shower, I'm gonna make a new thread that I can keep updated.
Post by: Siquo on April 04, 2012, 07:27:25 am
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2012, 08:29:54 am
Post by: jonask84 on April 04, 2012, 11:19:56 am
5689 posts and 717,434 views later, this post is to mark the end of an era, as we close down this original thread. It has grown way too long, and there's just way too much information in here for most people to make sense of. Also, by making a new thread Japa can have direct control over it.
Thanks for all the great discussions we've had, and I can't wait to see you over in the new Offical Stonesense Thread! (http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=106497)
The very best!
- Jonas
Post by: Rose on April 04, 2012, 11:29:12 am